From <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Sun Feb 5 08:50:50 1995 Received: from netaxs.com (root@netaxs.com [198.69.186.1]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA11092 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 08:50:50 -0500 Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [128.205.2.1]) by netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA01207 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 08:50:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199502051350.IAA01207@netaxs.com> Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9798; Sun, 05 Feb 95 08:50:23 EST Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3756; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:37 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:34 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UBVM (1.8a)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9210" To: "Christopher J. Fearnley" Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 10:37:00 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: HRL@PSUARCH.BITNET Subject: Re: A _Real_ 'anti-gravity' Bucky Invention If these kind of technical wonders are unwelcome on this list, then I would welcome them in the GENERAL Subjects area of DESIGN-L@PSUVM. PROF. HOWARD RAY LAWRENCE, ARCHITECTURE, COLLEGE OF ARTS AND ARCHITECTURE, THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY, UNIVERSITY PARK, PA 16802---List Owner. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:17:19 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "(Gary Murphy)" Subject: dome-shell kits in Florida Reply-To: garym@maya.isis.org This came to me in response to a question I left in the new alt.architecture newsgroup --- I will write to Carey to invite him to this list, but I thought this might be of interest to the group. Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:58:41 -0400 From: To: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM Newsgroups: alt.architecture In-Reply-To: References: <1992Sep25.231520.1011@nmsu.edu> <25SEP199223360675@zeus.tamu.edu> Organization: Encore Computer Corporation, Ft. Lauderdale, FL Hello, I have recently completed owner-builder construction of 2 geodesic domes. After some research, I selected the dome-shell kits from Robt Kirkpatrick in Ft. McCoy, Fla. These kits are "Pease"-type domes as opposed to "Hub-and- Strut" construction. Our dome-icile is located in SE Florida. I would be happy to discuss the advantages/disadvantages, construction and design experiences or anything else concerning this project or domes in general. Carey W. Mason "You can tell the pioneers by the arrows in their back" Gary Lawrence Murphy/murphyg@software.mitel.com/mitel!software!murphyg@uunet.ca Mitel Corp - 350 Legget Drive, Kanata, Ontario, Canada - (613) 592-2122 x3709 "It is amazing how different the world looks when we have changed" -- Morita ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:30:13 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "(Gary Murphy)" Subject: [cmason@encore.com: Re: dome-shell kits] Reply-To: garym@maya.isis.org Subject: Re: dome-shell kits From: To: Gary.Murphy@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:44:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: <9210021717.AA28107@Software.Mitel.COM>; from "Gary Murphy" at Oct + 2, 92 1:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL8] Hello again, I've only a few minutes right now, so I'll be brief (& send more info Mon.) Kirkpatrick's kits (I have a 39' and a 45') are each constructed of two sizes of triangles, pre-assembled, reinforced, braced, with plywood attached for the outer surface, and the outer surface coated with elastomeric polymer. We assembled the triangles into pentagons (small tri's) and half hexagons (larger tri's) and then lifted by crane to assemble the shells. The first taking two days, the second in one day (thanks to setting the angle of the section with a magnetic protractor before craning it into position). This $10 Kirkpatrick trick saved several hundred dollars in crane time, etc. Here's Bob Kirkpatrick's info: Rt 2, Box 2862 Ft McCoy, Fl 32134 (904) 6853235 Carey W. Mason Gary Lawrence Murphy/murphyg@software.mitel.com/mitel!software!murphyg@uunet.ca Mitel Corp - 350 Legget Drive, Kanata, Ontario, Canada - (613) 592-2122 x3709 "It is amazing how different the world looks when we have changed" -- Morita ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:42:23 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: BALDWIN@CSSC.NEWSCHOOL.EDU Subject: is this a discussion list? Dear Geodesic: Is this really a discussion list on the topic of Buckminster Fuller? If so, I'd like information about it! Guy Baldwin Center for Studies of Social Change New School for Social Research 64 University Place, 4th Floor New York, NY 10003 212/229-5312 Internet baldwin@cssc.newschool.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:32:44 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Unregistered Shareware User From: "(Gary Lawrence Murphy)" Subject: Re: is this a discussion list? In-Reply-To: <92Oct3.144426edt.9771@mail.uunet.ca> (Gary Lawrence Murphy) In <92Oct3.144426edt.9771@mail.uunet.ca> BALDWIN@cssc.newschool.edu writes: > Dear Geodesic: > > Is this really a discussion list on the topic of Buckminster Fuller? > If so, I'd like information about it! Greetings Guy! Either you're new here, or you have been following some of our recent threads ;-) but yes, that is exactly why I joined --- if you have just written to GEODESIC and are not a recipient of the list, I hope you know you need to send a message saying "subscribe geodesic (your full name)" to LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET. That's your question, now mine: what is (he asks hopefully) the Center for Studies of Social Change and the School for Social Research? Would these happen to have a formal interest in Fuller's work? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy -- garym@maya.isis.org -- (613) 230-6255 -------------------------------------------- Rely on reality, not a person, a system or a thought - Morita ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 15:41:28 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Unregistered Shareware User From: "(Gary Lawrence Murphy)" Subject: Re: Minimal Systems? In-Reply-To: <92Aug14.192021edt.10184@mail.uunet.ca> (Gary Lawrence Murphy) I didn't see any follow-up for this, so I thought I might take a stab at it in hopes of spurring some discussion --- often, we may not know the right answer, but a wrong answer is instantly apparent ;-) In <92Aug14.192021edt.10184@mail.uunet.ca> (mcnamara@vixvax.mgi.com) writes: > > I have been wondering lately what the minimal system is. It seems > clear that it is an entity distinct from its environment, implying a > boundary and some energy (information) exchange across the boundary. > Fuller (in _Synergetics_, vol 1, sect 400) states quite clearly > that a system has to have four components (tetrahedral) or more. > These components would appear to be the "nodes" of the tetrahedron, > and the interconnections between the nodes (six total) could represent > some internal structure. For an example, the physical components of a > control system could be represented by the nodes (comparator, reference, > input function, and output function), and the information/energy flow > between these components the tetrahedral interconnections. In this > representation the connection (s) to the external world (system boundary) > is not obvious (it is implicit). > Anyone out there have comments? Can you think of a better > mapping to the tetrahedron than a control system? How can the connection > to the external world be made more explicit? > **************************************************************************** > Curt McNamara (mcnamara@mgi.com) |"The present would be full of all > Mgmt. Graphics, Inc. |possible futures, if the past had > 1401 E. 79th St. |not already projected a pattern > Mpls., MN 55425 |upon it." Andre Gide > **************************************************************************** First, I think there is a fundamental design problem here that is often overlooked in industrial and architectural works (admittedly, I have zip experience in both). The problem is in seeing the 'system' and wondering how it connects. Fromm my understanding of synergetic design science, the 'system' is the whole system, and the connection to the external world should instead be thought of as the existing world being one of the nodes in the system. Design begins with the minimal thinkable, the tetrahedron, and then multiplies by division, by taking the whole system and identifying the known parts to discover the properties of the unknowns --- this is a guiding principle of synergetics: it is geometry. The minimum system is an entity distinct from the rest of universe, which is slightly different than Curt's definition. The division is between the consideration set and the irrelevant; there will be leaks because no system is an island ;-), but for design purposes, the boundary defines the extent of energy interchange as represented by the concavity of the tetrahedral interior. The four components are four sub-tunable systems, only resolvable as a single point, but a system none the less. Between these, we have Euler's rules for relative abundance of topological features, so if we can identify four stellar partners, we can postulate 6 interaction pairs and four interaction 'facets'; we can also look at the non-simultaneousness of the pair-interaction vertex stars as potential leak points (in reality, each is probably involved in a myriad of other tetrally-thinkable systems) or in Fuller's terms, shunting-off points. Could the control system then be modelled first to say there is (1) energy-input through the power supply, (2) something being controlled, (3) the comparitor circuits and (4) the human who needs the control to be done. Immediately, the design of the device has taken a turn! From this, we can either try and dissect (3) in the light of the interaction paths comming in and out, or we can bisect each interactive path, give that new untunable-as-a-system point a name and apply our analysis to (1) that system, (2) the new interaction paths to these bisect points and between them and (3) the 'facets' of the polyhedra formed by (2). As a designer of end-user computer programs, this is a good model of the method I use; it is systematic, formal enough to produce good design documents before the programming begins, and can be carried to whatever detail allowed or desired by whoever is paying my tab. It has a further advantage for me in outlining clearly what needs doing, sparing my imaginative faculties for the implementation ;-) Does any of this make sense in terms of industrial and engineering design? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy -- garym@maya.isis.org -- (613) 230-6255 -------------------------------------------- Rely on reality, not a person, a system or a thought - Morita ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:35:47 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Future World Leader!! Subject: Re: Gravity-NEUTRALIZING Invention Wrong! This is all wrong. I am depressed. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:22:27 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Terry Cooper, Computing Services, x2014" Subject: Re: Gravity-NEUTRALIZING Invention >From: Future World Leader!! > >Wrong! > >This is all wrong. > >I am depressed. What an informative post! I am enormously edified. ...terry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:28:00 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Gordon C. Muth III" Subject: PermaCulture??? I attended the OkraFest in Austin this weekend and talked to someone about PermaCulture and a movement in the direction of Bio-Regionalism. Does anyone on this list know anything of these topics? >From what I gathered from my discussion, PermaCulture has to do with using the environment around you and reducing your dependance on the current infrastructure(fuel, elec., food, etc.). Bio-Regionalism had to do with regional divisions based upon the natural resources, mainly water based divisions. Any info would be appreciated as I am quite curious and confused. Gordon Muth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:47:30 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: RE: World Game Info In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 23 Sep 1992 19:26:52 EDT from Good to see you are still here! I'm monitoring too. It's strange how some of the more knowledgeable Fuller-inspired people are not actively participating. I think part of it comes from the message Fuller left us that working a making the world work is more important than preaching to the world about how to make it better. Chris Fearnley fearnlcj@duvm.bitnet cfearnl@cpp (I need to find the complete adress for t his account, sorry) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:30:33 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: millere@FRITH.MSU.EDU Subject: dome software Does anyone know of any software available that can aid in designing geodesic dome? I am wondering if any binaries are available at FTP sites, but don't know where to look. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:30:32 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Terry Cooper, Computing Services, x2014" Subject: Re: dome software >From: millere@FRITH.MSU.EDU > >Does anyone know of any software available that can aid >in designing geodesic dome? I am wondering if any binaries >are available at FTP sites, but don't know where to look. I would think that one of the simtel mirrors would have it. Have you tried FTPing to OAK.OAKLAND.EDU? There is a directory for msdos stuff in the "pub" directory. (Don't remember the exact path, but it's not hard to find.) Also, there are directories for Windows and Geoworks software as well as unix and a whole bunch of other stuff. ...terry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:40:00 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "NAME 'Robert E. McElwaine'" Subject: BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the FACT of "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS" (reactions like Mg + O --> Ca, Si + C --> Ca, K + H --> Ca, N2 --> CO, etc.), as described in the BOOK "Biological Transmutations" by Louis Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS" [see Footnote] by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973: (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight and number. (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper for three or four weeks. (4) Separately incinerate both groups. (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of the sprouted group will usually weigh at least SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for mineral content. [Some of the mineral atoms of the sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our own bodies. Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C --> Ca, (much faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. The two reactions Si + C <--> Ca, by micro-organisms, cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. The reaction N2 --> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, creates a CARBON-MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY! ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the currently accepted "laws" of physics. Footnote: Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". ENTIRE BOOK is FASCINATING! UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. Robert E. McElwaine B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:04:13 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(Claude W. Van Horn)" Subject: Re: Gravity-NEUTRALIZING Invention In article <01GPKFEUEEKI9TER0G@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU> Future World Leader!! writes: >Wrong! > >This is all wrong. > >I am depressed. Ok, I'll bite, what's wrong with it. Fill us in. So far I have not been able to find anyone who has actually made it all the way through Synergistics with a good clear idea of what Fuller was trying to get across. If you can enlighten us, I am sure many would be here to cheer you on --- or debate you (as the case may be). Van!! -- Claude Van Horn : Magician, man about town, philosopher, Perot Supporter Voice Mail Expert, and general good guy. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:09:22 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Terry Cooper, Computing Services, x2014" Subject: Re: Gravity-NEUTRALIZING Invention >-- >Claude Van Horn : Magician, man about town, philosopher, Perot Supporter > Voice Mail Expert, and general good guy. At least two of those characterizations are mutually exclusive. ...terry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:09:18 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "(Barry Caplin)" Subject: personal to list owner Hi, Could the list owner please contact me. Thanks, Barry Barry Caplin Internet: bc@nag.com Numerical Algorithms Group or: naginc!bc@sunbird.central.sun.com or: caplin@mcs.anl.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:17:27 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly)" Subject: Re: dome software millere@frith.msu.edu writes: -Does anyone know of any software available that can aid -in designing geodesic dome? I am wondering if any binaries -are available at FTP sites, but don't know where to look. Here's something from the list over the summer. I've not tried this program yet... From: Gary.Murphy@SOFTWARE.MITEL.COM (Gary Murphy) Date: 24 Jun 92 13:32:51 GMT Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Subject: IRIS Geometry software ~From: software@riemann.geom.umn.edu (Geometry Center Software Development Group) ~Newsgroups: comp.archives ~Subject: [comp.graphics] Geomview is available --- 3D object viewer ~Date: 23 Jun 92 10:53:58 GMT Followup-To: comp.graphics,comp.graphics.visualization,comp.sys.sgi,sci.math Organization: Geometry Center NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu X-Original-Newsgroups: comp.graphics,comp.graphics.visualization,comp.sys.sgi, + sci.math X-Original-Date: 22 Jun 92 21:20:06 GMT Archive-name: auto/comp.graphics/Geomview-is-available-3D-object-viewer The Geometry Center announces release 1.1 of geomview, a program for looking at and interactively manipulating 3D objects. The current version runs on Silicon Graphics IRIS workstations. It is available via anonymous ftp at geom.umn.edu (128.101.25.31) in the "pub/geomview" subdirectory. "geomview-bin.tar.Z" contains pre-compiled binaries, documentation, and data and takes up 3 MB of disk space. The source distribution is "geomview.tar.Z" and takes up 21 MB of disk space. To unpack, type "uncompress < [geomview|geomview-bin].tar.Z | tar xvopf -". Please send all correspondence regarding this software via email to "software@geom.umn.edu". Geomview represents the current state of an ongoing effort at the Geometry Center to provide interactive 3D graphics software which is particularly appropriate for displaying the kinds of objects and doing the kinds of operations of interest in mathematics research and education. While geomview was developed as a tool for research mathematicians, it is a general-purpose graphics system which could be useful in many domains. It can be used to examine a static object or as a dynamic display for a running program. An extensive command language allows programmers to easily extend the functionality of the basic viewer by writing external modules. Currently hyperbolic visualization capabilities are built-in, while four-dimensional visualization is handled through external modules. Geomview allows multiple independently controllable objects and cameras. Interactive control for motion, appearances (including lighting, shading, and materials), picking on an object, edge or vertex level, and adding or deleting objects is provided through direct mouse manipulation, control panels, and keyboard shortcuts. External programs can drive desired aspects of the viewer (such as continually loading changing geometry or controlling the motion of certain objects) while allowing interactive control of everything else. Geomview supports the following simple data types: polyhedra with shared vertices (.off), quadrilaterals, rectangular meshes, vectors, and Bezier surface patches of arbitrary degree including rational patches. Object hierarchies can be constructed with lists of objects and instances of object(s) transformed by one or many 4x4 matrices. Arbitrary portions of changing hierarchies may be transmitted by creating named references. The Geometry Center is an NSF-funded independent research group based at the University of Minnesota. The three-fold mission of the Center is to support and promote mathematics and computer science research; software, animation, and tool dvelopment and production; education and communication of mathematics at all levels. The Geometry Center's offical name is the "National Science and Technology Research Center for Computation and Visualization of Geometry Structures". The Geometry Center University of Minnesota 1300 S. 2nd St. Minneapolis, MN 55454 USA -- Patrick G. Salsbury State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Disclaimers are silly. ;^) Think for yourself. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:13:23 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly)" Subject: Re: A _Real_ 'anti-gravity' Bucky Invention Quite the good post! I've been away for far too long, but that's a nice thing to see on my first post read. :) Yes, the floating city concept is an interesting one. Old-timers will remember when we discussed it here about 3 years ago. Lots more to pour through. You'll probably hear from me soon. Pat -- Patrick G. Salsbury State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Disclaimers are silly. ;^) Think for yourself. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:20:24 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly)" Subject: Re: Fuller's History of Industrialization BDAMICO@GWUVM.BITNET writes: -Fuller said nothing about redistribution. His Design Science revolution is bas -ed in raising the living standard of the 'have-nots' and 'have-lesses' without -taking away from the haves. This is done through ephemeralization "more with l -ess". -My, this discussion has gotten animated. ---Trimtab-- (still listening) He did, however, discuss DISTRIBUTION, and how the intelligent application of that could solve problems like global food shortages, etc. In fact, I beleive he shut down production of the DDM (Dymaxion Dwelling Machine) because of an inability to distribute the final product to the consumer. Pat -- Patrick G. Salsbury State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Disclaimers are silly. ;^) Think for yourself. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:42:24 +0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(WA Office of Higher Education)" Subject: Re: World Game Info Chris Fearnley (FEARNLCJ@DUVM.BITNET) wrote: : Good to see you are still here! I'm monitoring too. It's strange how some of : the more knowledgeable Fuller-inspired people are not actively participating. : I think part of it comes from the message Fuller left us that working a making : the world work is more important than preaching to the world about how to make : it better. : : Chris Fearnley fearnlcj@duvm.bitnet : cfearnl@cpp (I need to find the complete adress for t : his account, sorry) Chris, If it's not a question that has been done to death, where would you encourage your best friend to start in the Fuller literature? (For maximum ease of mastery) Thanks, Jeff Perth, Western Australia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:37:00 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: HRL@PSUARCH.BITNET Subject: Re: A _Real_ 'anti-gravity' Bucky Invention I'm not sure it's been discussed, but... Bucky Fuller suggested a gosamer structure to enclose the total evnironment of Earth. This might be tantamount to the "anti-gravity" thinking of Fuller. It is *actually* a balanced gravity concept. The Earth and the geodesic structure would necessarily share approximately the same centroid. Howard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:55:52 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "(The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly)" Subject: ATTN: Barry Caplin In bit.listserv.geodesic you write: -Hi, - Could the list owner please contact me. - Thanks, - Barry Hi. That's me! What can I do for ya? I tried to reply via mail, but it bounced for some reason. Please mail to me personally.... Pat Patrick G. Salsbury State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Disclaimers are silly. ;^) Think for yourself. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:20:19 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "(Barry Caplin)" Subject: Re: ATTN: Barry Caplin Hi Patrick, Thanks for writing. I've been trying to unsub from the list and have not been able to. I've tried using different accounts and different routings to send the request but I always get the message that the listserv doesn't see me on the list and maybe I should use a different account, etc. Well, I figured instead of posting the old "please unsub me" message that bothers people so, I'd try to get ahold of you. I need to drop off the list because my mailer is out of control! I'm on too many lists and am dropping off many of them. Thanks for your help, Barry Barry Caplin Internet: bc@nag.com Numerical Algorithms Group or: naginc!bc@sunbird.central.sun.com or: caplin@mcs.anl.gov [ I was most likely on the list as naginc!caplin@sunbird.central.sun.com] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 09:27:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: apang@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU Subject: Re: A _Real_ 'anti-gravity' Bucky Invention Where was this geodesic structure enclosing the total environment of the Earth talked about? I haven't run across it, and would like ot find out mor-- sorry would like to find out more about it. Cheers, Alex ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 10:38:16 GMT Reply-To: elena@tkexc.alma-ata.su Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(Pogodina Elena)" Subject: At our disposal we have unique technologies of geophysical (gravimetric and magnetic prospecting, airborngammaspectrometry) data processing aiming at finding oil and gas fields, iron,boxi- te, chromite and some other resources. These technologies are released through the package of pro- grammes (for IBM compatible computers) and based on mathematic of field, spectral analysis, statistic theory and some other he- uristic methods. Application of the technologies offered provide for reduction of drilling work volume and increasing its efficiency through ex- plorations wells. Our technologies allows for processing of geophysical survey in mountains and shelf zone of worlds ocean. Information received after data processing gives possibility to discover perspective area for fulfilling probing not drawing attention of your compe- tition. Under definite conditions these technologies allows for finding solutions that can not be fulfilled in seismic prospecting finding of cornices of salt cupolas, underground reefs, etc. At present time a number of specific features of the Soviet economy prevents from serious incalculation of our technologies. So we are making an attempt to find a firm interested to test and apply ur technologies. Free of charge test data processing including grids of gravic and magnetic field on 5.25" floppy disks in ASCII and geological map are garanteed. Engineers of geophysics Gennady Shestakov / Address: Kazakhstan, Alma-Ata,480084, micriregion 1, dom 51, kv. 17 Telefone: 26-42-47 / Ivan Priezzhev / Address: Kazakhstan, Alma-Ata, 480051, pereulok Zavodskoi, dom 2, kv. 2 / ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:00:00 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "NAME 'Robert E. McElwaine'" Subject: LARSONIAN Physics, Astronomy, (and Chemistry) Although the partial summary below is slanted toward physics and astronomy, the Theory ITSELF is also applicable to CHEMISTRY. Especially relevant is Larson's book "NOTHING BUT MOTION", which includes 4 chapters on chemical bonding applying principles described in the first several chapters. I highly recommend that book to ALL Chemists. LARSONIAN "Reciprocal System" Orthodox physicists, astronomers, and astrophysicists CLAIM to be looking for a "Unified Field Theory" in which all of the forces of the universe can be explained with a single set of laws or equations. But they have been systematically IGNORING or SUPPRESSING an excellent one for 30 years! The late Physicist Dewey B. Larson's comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, which he calls the "Reciprocal System", is built on two fundamental postulates about the physical and mathematical natures of space and time: (1) "The physical universe is composed ENTIRELY of ONE component, MOTION, existing in THREE dimensions, in DISCRETE UNITS, and in two RECIPROCAL forms, SPACE and TIME." (2) "The physical universe conforms to the relations of ORDINARY COMMUTATIVE mathematics, its magnitudes are ABSOLUTE, and its geometry is EUCLIDEAN." From these two postulates, Larson developed a COMPLETE Theoretical Universe, using various combinations of translational, vibrational, rotational, and vibrational- rotational MOTIONS, the concepts of IN-ward and OUT-ward SCALAR MOTIONS, and speeds in relation to the Speed of Light (which Larson called "UNIT VELOCITY" and "THE NATURAL DATUM"). At each step in the development, Larson was able to MATCH objects in his Theoretical Universe with objects in the REAL physical universe, (photons, sub-atomic particles [INCOMPLETE ATOMS], charges, atoms, molecules, globular star clusters, galaxies, binary star systems, solar systems, white dwarf stars, pulsars, quasars, ETC.), even objects NOT YET DISCOVERED THEN (such as EXPLODING GALAXIES, and GAMMA-RAY BURSTS). And applying his Theory to his NEW model of the atom, Larson was able to precisely and accurately CALCULATE inter- atomic distances in crystals and molecules. All of this is described in good detail, with-OUT fancy complex mathematics, in his books. BOOKS of Dewey B. Larson The following is a complete list of the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson's books about his comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe. Some of the early books are out of print now, but still available through inter-library loan. "The Structure of the Physical Universe" (1959) "The Case AGAINST the Nuclear Atom" (1963) "Beyond Newton" (1964) "New Light on Space and Time" (1965) "Quasars and Pulsars" (1971) "NOTHING BUT MOTION" (1979) [A $9.50 SUBSTITUTE for the $8.3 BILLION "Super Collider".] [The last four chapters EXPLAIN chemical bonding.] "The Neglected Facts of Science" (1982) "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION" (1984) [FINAL SOLUTIONS to most ALL astrophysical mysteries.] "BASIC PROPERTIES OF MATTER" (1988) [Available from: The International Society of Unified Science (ISUS) 1680 E. Atkin Ave. Salt Lake City, Utah 84106 ] Physicist Dewey B. Larson's Background Physicist Dewey B. Larson was a retired Engineer (Chemical or Electrical). He was about 91 years old when he died a couple of years ago. He had a Bachelor of Science Degree in Engineering Science from Oregon State University. He developed his comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe while trying to develop a way to COMPUTE chemical properties based only on the elements used. Larson's lack of a fancy "PH.D." degree might be one reason that orthodox physicists are ignoring him, but it is NOT A VALID REASON. Sometimes it takes a relative outsider to CLEARLY SEE THE FOREST THROUGH THE TREES. At the same time, it is clear from his books that he also knew ORTHODOX physics and astronomy as well as ANY physicist or astronomer, well enough to point out all their CONTRADICTIONS, AD HOC ASSUMPTIONS, PRINCIPLES OF IMPOTENCE, IN-CONSISTENCIES, ETC.. Larson did NOT have the funds, etc. to experimentally test his Theory. And it was NOT necessary for him to do so. He simply compared the various parts of his Theory with OTHER researchers' experimental and observational data. And in many cases, HIS explanation FIT BETTER. A SELF-CONSISTENT Theory is MUCH MORE than the ORTHODOX physicists and astronomers have! They CLAIM to be looking for a "unified field theory" that works, but have been IGNORING one for over 30 years now! "Modern physics" does NOT explain the physical universe so well. Some parts of some of Larson's books are FULL of quotations of leading orthodox physicists and astronomers who agree. And remember that "epicycles", "crystal spheres", "geocentricity", "flat earth theory", etc., ALSO once SEEMED to explain it well, but were later proved CONCEPTUALLY WRONG. Prof. Frank H. Meyer, Professor Emeritus of UW-Superior, was/is a STRONG PROPONENT of Larson's Theory, and was (or still is) President of Larson's organization, "THE INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY OF UNIFIED SCIENCE", and Editor of their quarterly Journal "RECIPROCITY". He moved to Minneapolis after retiring. "Super Collider" BOONDOGGLE! I am AGAINST contruction of the "Superconducting Super Collider", in Texas or anywhere else. It would be a GROSS WASTE of money, and contribute almost NOTHING of "scientific" value. Most physicists don't realize it, but, according to the comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson, as described in his books, the strange GOOFY particles ("mesons", "hyperons", ALLEGED "quarks", etc.) which they are finding in EXISTING colliders (Fermi Lab, Cern, etc.) are really just ATOMS of ANTI-MATTER, which are CREATED by the high-energy colliding beams, and which quickly disintegrate like cosmic rays because they are incompatible with their environment. A larger and more expensive collider will ONLY create a few more elements of anti-matter that the physicists have not seen there before, and the physicists will be EVEN MORE CONFUSED THAN THEY ARE NOW! Are a few more types of anti-matter atoms worth the $8.3 BILLION cost?!! Don't we have much more important uses for this WASTED money?! Another thing to consider is that the primary proposed location in Texas has a serious and growing problem with some kind of "fire ants" eating the insulation off underground cables. How much POISONING of the ground and ground water with insecticides will be required to keep the ants out of the "Supercollider"?! Naming the "Super Collider" after Ronald Reagon, as proposed, is TOTALLY ABSURD! If it is built, it should be named after a leading particle PHYSICIST. LARSONIAN Anti-Matter In Larson's comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, anti-matter is NOT a simple case of opposite charges of the same types of particles. It has more to do with the rates of vibrations and rotations of the photons of which they are made, in relation to the vibrational and rotational equivalents of the speed of light, which Larson calls "Unit Velocity" and the "Natural Datum". In Larson's Theory, a positron is actually a particle of MATTER, NOT anti-matter. When a positron and electron meet, the rotational vibrations (charges) and rotations of their respective photons (of which they are made) neutralize each other. In Larson's Theory, the ANTI-MATTER half of the physical universe has THREE dimensions of TIME, and ONLY ONE dimension of space, and exists in a RECIPROCAL RELATIONSHIP to our MATERIAL half. LARSONIAN Relativity The perihelion point in the orbit of the planet Mercury has been observed and precisely measured to ADVANCE at the rate of 574 seconds of arc per century. 531 seconds of this advance are attributed via calculations to gravitational perturbations from the other planets (Venus, Earth, Jupiter, etc.). The remaining 43 seconds of arc are being used to help "prove" Einstein's "General Theory of Relativity". But the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson achieved results CLOSER to the 43 seconds than "General Relativity" can, by INSTEAD using "SPECIAL Relativity". In one or more of his books, he applied the LORENTZ TRANSFORMATION on the HIGH ORBITAL SPEED of Mercury. Larson TOTALLY REJECTED "General Relativity" as another MATHEMATICAL FANTASY. He also REJECTED most of "Special Relativity", including the parts about "mass increases" near the speed of light, and the use of the Lorentz Transform on doppler shifts, (Those quasars with red-shifts greater than 1.000 REALLY ARE MOVING FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT, although most of that motion is away from us IN TIME.). In Larson's comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, there are THREE dimensions of time instead of only one. But two of those dimensions can NOT be measured from our material half of the physical universe. The one dimension that we CAN measure is the CLOCK time. At low relative speeds, the values of the othe two dimensions are NEGLIGIBLE; but at high speeds, they become significant, and the Lorentz Transformation must be used as a FUDGE FACTOR. [Larson often used the term "COORDINATE TIME" when writing about this.] In regard to "mass increases", it has been PROVEN in atomic accelerators that acceleration drops toward zero near the speed of light. But the formula for acceleration is ACCELERATION = FORCE / MASS, (a = F/m). Orthodox physicists are IGNORING the THIRD FACTOR: FORCE. In Larson's Theory, mass STAYS CONSTANT and FORCE drops toward zero. FORCE is actually a MOTION, or COMBINATIONS of MOTIONS, or RELATIONS BETWEEN MOTIONS, including INward and OUTward SCALAR MOTIONS. The expansion of the universe, for example, is an OUTward SCALAR motion inherent in the universe and NOT a result of the so-called "Big Bang" (which is yet another MATHEMATICAL FANTASY). THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION I wish to recommend to EVERYONE the book "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION", by Dewey B. Larson, 1984, North Pacific Publishers, (P.O. Box 13255, Portland, Oregon 97213), 456 pages, indexed, hardcover. It contains the Astrophysical portions of a GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe developed by that author, an UNrecognized GENIUS, more than thirty years ago. It contains FINAL SOLUTIONS to most all Astrophysical mysteries, including the FORMATION of galaxies, binary and multiple star systems, and solar systems, the TRUE ORIGIN of the "3-degree" background radiation, cosmic rays, and gamma- ray bursts, and the TRUE NATURE of quasars, pulsars, white dwarfs, exploding galaxies, etc.. It contains what astronomers and astrophysicists are ALL looking for, if they are ready to seriously consider it with OPEN MINDS! The following is an example of his Theory's success: In his first book in 1959, "THE STRUCTURE OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE", Larson predicted the existence of EXPLODING GALAXIES, several years BEFORE astronomers started finding them. They are a NECESSARY CONSEQUENCE of Larson's comprehensive Theory. And when QUASARS were discovered, he had an immediate related explanation for them also. GAMMA-RAY BURSTS Astro-physicists and astronomers are still scratching their heads about the mysterious GAMMA-RAY BURSTS. They were originally thought to originate from "neutron stars" in the disc of our galaxy. But the new Gamma Ray Telescope now in Earth orbit has been detecting them in all directions uniformly, and their source locations in space do NOT correspond to any known objects, (except for a few cases of directional coincidence). Gamma-ray bursts are a NECESSARY CONSEQUENCE of the GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe developed by the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson. According to page 386 of his book "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION", published in 1984, the gamma-ray bursts are coming from SUPERNOVA EXPLOSIONS in the ANTI-MATTER HALF of the physical universe, which Larson calls the "Cosmic Sector". Because of the relationship between the anti-matter and material halves of the physical universe, and the way they are connected together, the gamma-ray bursts can pop into our material half anywhere in space, seemingly at random. (This is WHY the source locations of the bursts do not correspond with known objects, and come from all directions uniformly.) I wonder how close to us in space a source location would have to be for a gamma-ray burst to kill all or most life on Earth! There would be NO WAY to predict one, NOR to stop it! Perhaps some of the MASS EXTINCTIONS of the past, which are now being blamed on impacts of comets and asteroids, were actually caused by nearby GAMMA-RAY BURSTS! LARSONIAN Binary Star Formation About half of all the stars in the galaxy in the vicinity of the sun are binary or double. But orthodox astronomers and astrophysicists still have no satisfactory theory about how they form or why there are so many of them. But binary star systems are actually a LIKELY CONSEQUENCE of the comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe developed by the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson. I will try to summarize Larsons explanation, which is detailed in Chapter 7 of his book "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION" and in some of his other books. First of all, according to Larson, stars do NOT generate energy by "fusion". A small fraction comes from slow gravitational collapse. The rest results from the COMPLETE ANNIHILATION of HEAVY elements (heavier than IRON). Each element has a DESTRUCTIVE TEMPERATURE LIMIT. The heavier the element is, the lower is this limit. A star's internal temperature increases as it grows in mass via accretion and absorption of the decay products of cosmic rays, gradually reaching the destructive temperature limit of lighter and lighter elements. When the internal temperature of the star reaches the destructive temperature limit of IRON, there is a Type I SUPERNOVA EXPLOSION! This is because there is SO MUCH iron present; and that is related to the structure of iron atoms and the atom building process, which Larson explains in some of his books [better than I can]. When the star explodes, the lighter material on the outer portion of the star is blown outward in space at less than the speed of light. The heavier material in the center portion of the star was already bouncing around at close to the speed of light, because of the high temperature. The explosion pushes that material OVER the speed of light, and it expands OUTWARD IN TIME, which is equivalent to INWARD IN SPACE, and it often actually DISAPPEARS for a while. Over long periods of time, both masses start to fall back gravitationally. The material that had been blown outward in space now starts to form a RED GIANT star. The material that had been blown OUTWARD IN TIME starts to form a WHITE DWARF star. BOTH stars then start moving back toward the "MAIN SEQUENCE" from opposite directions on the H-R Diagram. The chances of the two masses falling back into the exact same location in space, making a single lone star again, are near zero. They will instead form a BINARY system, orbiting each other. According to Larson, a white dwarf star has an INVERSE DENSITY GRADIENT (is densest at its SURFACE), because the material at its center is most widely dispersed (blown outward) in time. This ELIMINATES the need to resort to MATHEMATICAL FANTASIES about "degenerate matter", "neutron stars", "black holes", etc.. LARSONIAN Solar System Formation If the mass of the heavy material at the center of the exploding star is relatively SMALL, then, instead of a single white dwarf star, there will be SEVERAL "mini" white dwarf stars (revolving around the red giant star, but probably still too far away in three-dimensional TIME to be affected by its heat, etc.). These will become PLANETS! In Chapter 7 of THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION, Larson used all this information, and other principles of his comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, to derive his own version of Bode's Law. "Black Hole" FANTASY! I heard that physicist Stephen W. Hawking recently completed a theoretical mathematical analysis of TWO "black holes" merging together into a SINGLE "black hole", and concluded that the new "black hole" would have MORE MASS than the sum of the two original "black holes". Such a result should be recognized by EVERYone as a RED FLAG, causing widespread DOUBT about the whole IDEA of "black holes", etc.! After reading Physicist Dewey B. Larson's books about his comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, especially his book "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION", it is clear to me that "black holes" are NOTHING more than MATHEMATICAL FANTASIES! The strange object at Cygnus X-1 is just an unusually massive WHITE DWARF STAR, NOT the "black hole" that orthodox astronomers and physicists so badly want to "prove" their theory. By the way, I do NOT understand why so much publicity is being given to physicist Stephen Hawking. The physicists and astronomers seem to be acting as if Hawking's severe physical problem somehow makes him "wiser". It does NOT! I wish the same attention had been given to Physicist Dewey B. Larson while he was still alive. Widespread publicity and attention should NOW be given to Larson's Theory, books, and organization (The International Society of Unified Science). ELECTRO-MAGNETIC PROPULSION I heard of that concept many years ago, in connection with UFO's and unorthodox inventors, but I never was able to find out how or why they work, or how they are constructed. I found a possible clue about why they might work on pages 112-113 of the book "BASIC PROPERTIES OF MATTER", by the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson, which describes part of Larson's comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe. I quote one paragraph: "As indicated in the preceding chapter, the development of the theory of the universe of motion arrives at a totally different concept of the nature of electrical resistance. The electrons, we find, are derived from the environment. It was brought out in Volume I [Larson's book "NOTHING BUT MOTION"] that there are physical processes in operation which produce electrons in substantial quantities, and that, although the motions that constitute these electrons are, in many cases, absorbed by atomic structures, the opportunities for utilizing this type of motion in such structures are limited. It follows that there is always a large excess of free electrons in the material sector [material half] of the universe, most of which are uncharged. In this uncharged state the electrons cannot move with respect to extension space, because they are inherently rotating units of space, and the relation of space to space is not motion. In open space, therefore, each uncharged electron remains permanently in the same location with respect to the natural reference system, in the manner of a photon. In the context of the stationary spatial reference system the uncharged electron, like the photon, is carried outward at the speed of light by the progression of the natural reference system. All material aggregates are thus exposed to a flux of electrons similar to the continual bombardment by photons of radiation. Meanwhile there are other processes, to be discussed later, whereby electrons are returned to the environment. The electron population of a material aggregate such as the earth therefore stabilizes at an equilibrium level." Note that in Larson's Theory, UNcharged electrons are also massLESS, and are basically photons of light of a particular frequency (above the "unit" frequency) spinning around one axis at a particular rate (below the "unit" rate). ("Unit velocity" is the speed of light, and there are vibrational and rotational equivalents to the speed of light, according to Larson's Theory.) [I might have the "above" and "below" labels mixed up.] Larson is saying that outer space is filled with mass- LESS UN-charged electrons flying around at the speed of light! If this is true, then the ELECTRO-MAGNETIC PROPULSION fields of spacecraft might be able to interact with these electrons, or other particles in space, perhaps GIVING them a charge (and mass) and shooting them toward the rear to achieve propulsion. (In Larson's Theory, an electrical charge is a rotational vibration of a particular frequency (above the "unit" frequency) superimposed on the rotation of the particle.) The paragraph quoted above might also give a clue to confused meteorologists about how lightning is generated in clouds. SUPPRESSION of LARSONIAN Physics The comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe developed by the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson has been available for more than 30 YEARS, published in 1959 in his first book "THE STRUCTURE OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE". It is TOTALLY UN-SCIENTIFIC for Hawking, Wheeler, Sagan, and the other SACRED PRIESTS of the RELIGION they call "science" (or "physics", or "astronomy", etc.), as well as the "scientific" literature and the "education" systems, to TOTALLY IGNORE Larson's Theory has they have. Larson's Theory has excellent explanations for many things now puzzling orthodox physicists and astronomers, such as gamma-ray bursts and the nature of quasars. Larson's Theory deserves to be HONESTLY and OPENLY discussed in the physics, CHEMISTRY, and astronomy journals, in the U.S. and elsewhere. And at least the basic principles of Larson's Theory should be included in all related courses at UW-EC, UW-Madison, Cambridge, Cornell University, and elsewhere, so that students are not kept in the dark about a worthy alternative to the DOGMA they are being fed. UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this partial summary is ENCOURAGED. Robert E. McElwaine B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 20:56:34 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(Perry E. Metzger)" Subject: Re: LARSONIAN Physics, Astronomy, (and Chemistry) MCELWRE@UWEC.BITNET (NAME 'Robert E. McElwaine') writes: > [His USUAL garbage.] Could You PLEASE quit harASSing US with your STUPID POSTS? Noone anywhere on the net APPRECIATES you OR your funky CAPITALIZATIONS. -- Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com -- Just say "NO!" to death and taxes. Extropian and Proud. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 12:22:24 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Christopher L. Weeks" Subject: McElwaine I take offence at what Perry Metzger writes: >MCELWRE@UWEC.BITNET (NAME 'Robert E. McElwaine') writes: >> >[His USUAL garbage.] > >Could You PLEASE quit harASSing US with your STUPID POSTS? Noone >anywhere on the net APPRECIATES you OR your funky CAPITALIZATIONS. > >-- >Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com While most of what Mr. McElwaine posts to this list is not of immediate relevance to the discussion of the works of Buckminster Fuller, it seems inapropriate to rabidly attack him due to non-conventional beliefs. I greatly respect the beliefs and opinions of most of the people who manage to post coherent messages to any of the lists to which I subscribe. This most recent message from Mr. McElwaine holds more interest for me than most of his seemingly "non-Fulleresque" ideas. His description of Dewey B. Larson's life is similar to that of Fuller's. There are correlations between Larson's and Fuller's work in that they were not of the mainstream in their fields and their work was rejected by many of the 'experts' in those fields. It seems that a list devoted to the discussion of Bucky's accomplishments and ideas would be one of the few places which might be safe-haven for "science" of a non-conformist nature. I find Mr. McElwaine's "funky CAPITALIZATIONS" an impediment to readability, but I also find the-goofy-hyphenated-sentences-of R. Buckminster Fuller hard to read. Mr. Metzger states that noone anywhere on the net appreciates Mr. McElwaine or his message format. I prove him wrong. Thank you for your time and patience, I realize this isn't a perfect place for this, but I believe Mr. Metzger's message required rebuttal. Christopher L. Weeks c576653@mizzou1.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:56:35 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "(Chris Dunphy)" Subject: Re: Dome Tour Please remove me from this list. I subscribed via a list serve, but it no longer seems to recongize my unsubscribe requests, so anyone with the power, could you please remove me by hand??? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 23:04:21 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(Perry E. Metzger)" Subject: Re: McElwaine C576653@MIZZOU1.BITNET (Christopher L. Weeks) writes: >I take offence at what Perry Metzger writes: > > >MCELWRE@UWEC.BITNET (NAME 'Robert E. McElwaine') writes: > >> > >[His USUAL garbage.] > > > >Could You PLEASE quit harASSing US with your STUPID POSTS? Noone > >anywhere on the net APPRECIATES you OR your funky CAPITALIZATIONS. > > > >-- > >Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com > > >While most of what Mr. McElwaine posts to this list is not of immediate >relevance to the discussion of the works of Buckminster Fuller, it seems >inapropriate to rabidly attack him due to non-conventional beliefs. I'm not attacking him for non-conventinal beliefs. I've got plenty of non-conventional beliefs. I'm attacking him because he posts junk around the world. I'm open minded. As has been said, however, its good to have an open mind, but not one so open that your brains fall out. Mr. McElwaine as been publishing foolishness net wide for months now. He's even taken to sending junk to random mailing lists he doesn't subscribe to. His stuff is about as interesting as perpetual motion machine designs. Indeed, as I recall, he's made the claim on several occassions that perpetual motion is possible. -- Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com -- Just say "NO!" to death and taxes. Extropian and Proud. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1992 09:26:00 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Christopher.Wolfe@MVS.UDEL.EDU Subject: On the Subject of Robert McElwai Here's an interestin note on our friend Mr McElwaine which I picked up on another list. --- -------------( Forwarded letter follows )----------------------- --- Warning: Network mail. Authenticity of the sender is not guaranteed. Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu by MVS.UDEL.EDU (IBM MVS SMTP V2R1) with TCP; Tue, 20 Oct 92 23:44:25 EST Received: from ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8667; Tue, 20 Oct 92 23:47:16 EDT Received: from UBVM.BITNET by ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) with BSMTP id 2616; Tue, 20 Oct 92 22:13:57 EDT Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 22:11:36 -0400 Reply-To: InterVarsity Christian Fellowship List Sender: InterVarsity Christian Fellowship List From: Robert Weiss Subject: On the Subject of Robert McElwaine X-To: ivcf-l@ubvm.bitnet To: Multiple recipients of list IVCF-L IVCF peoples: Recently I received this letter concerning Robert McElwaine. He had posted something to nt-greek@virginia.edu that came to my account. In response to that tract, I received this form letter: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Dan Drumm Subject: Mr. Robert McElwaine I would like to acknowledge receipt of your recent complaint concerning materials that your Notes, Conference, or Bulletin Board received from Mr. Robert McElwaine, one of our students here at the University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire. Mr. McElwaine's activities on the Internet closely parallel similar activities here on campus in which he has used every available public forum to promote his views. Attempts to limit these activities have met with determined and protracted resistance and litigation on his part based upon his First Amendment rights under the United States Constitution. He contends that the readers of Conferences or Bulletin Boards have no right to infringe on his right of free expression. However, he does acknowledge and accept that the owners, moderators, or managers of Notes, Conferences, or Bulletin Boards do have the right to remove such material and to request that he not post any other materials. He has given assurances that upon receipt of such a request that he will cease his activities. The fastest way to take care of the issue and to prevent your Notes, Conference, or Bulletin Board from being the recipient of additional communications from Mr. McElwaine is to send him Email and request that he stop. That Email should give your name and the name of the Bulletin Board, Notes, or Conference you moderate or control. You should specifically state that you have the authority to request that he cease and desist from any further postings. If you are not the administrator, then you should forward this message to the individual who has such authority and request that he/she contact Mr. McElwaine. I would request that a copy of any correspondence with Mr. McElwaine be also sent to me at CBRENNER@UWEC.EDU. If, after being requested to stop, he continues to send his materials The University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire will take steps revoke his Internet privileges. On behalf of the University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire I would like to apologize for any inconvenience Mr. McElwaine has caused and to thank you for helping us address the problem. Sincerely, Charles J. Brenner, Director Computing and Networking Services +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ en agape, Bob ============================= Robert Weiss psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1992 16:54:36 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "(OPIRG)" Subject: Re: McElwaine I must admit that he does seem to be a bit of a flake, and a little annoying, but if you take his posts as an interesting diversion, rather than some sort of pseudo-science, they are quite amusing, even if completely pointless. I for one enjoy them. Perhaps they should be re-located, but I really don't mind them here. If people don't like them, they can just ignore them. Christopher Allen (wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 13:52:24 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: solan@MATH.UIO.NO Subject: McElwaine In-Reply-To: "(OPIRG)"'s message of Sun, 25 Oct 1992 16:54:36 GMT <9210251715.AAsmaug05423@smaug.uio.no> Someone ought to start a newsgroup alt.McElwaine.long.tedious.letters where this Mr. McElwaine could send his reflections. I am subscribing to a lot of different newsgroups (which McElwaine does NOT subscribe to) where McElwaine sends his letters, and get somewhat tired of seeing the same message over and over again, especially since Mr. McElwaine has that arrogant beavior of not checking the groups to see replies. Solan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 14:59:56 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: ST403317@BROWNVM.BITNET Why not let Mr. McElwaine post whatever he wants to? He amuses me, and no one is forced to read everything sent to them (as far as I know). Bill Walters at Brown Univ.