From <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Sun Feb 5 03:20:01 1995 Received: from netaxs.com (root@netaxs.com [198.69.186.1]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA08654 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:20:01 -0500 Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [128.205.2.1]) by netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02940 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199502050819.DAA02940@netaxs.com> Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7685; Sun, 05 Feb 95 03:19:43 EST Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3772; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:43 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:40 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UBVM (1.8a)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9309" To: "Christopher J. Fearnley" Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 14:10:05 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Marcia C. Blackburn" Subject: How to get files I was able to retrieve a list of your archived material on Bucky, but have not been successful in my attempt to get or read those files. Help? Thanks. Marcia Blackburn gradmcb@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 15:43:13 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bill Long Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA Subject: Re: How to get files Marcia, Although I don't know what the address of the FTP site you're referring to is you may have to get the files in question in binary form if they have been archived (compressed). Use the command TYPE BINARY to set the transfer type to binary before you use the GET command. Then, once you have the files in your machine, run whatever decompression program called for to change them back into regular ascii files. Hope this works for you. Bill Long longwj@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:26:59 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: How to get files In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 1 Sep 1993 14:10:05 -0400 from I assume you sent the command get geodesic filelist to listserv@ubvm. You must use the get command to get the files. On my system I would say tell listserv@ubvm get geoddesic log9301 It may be that some of the files are no longer available I just asked for that file and in moments I'll be able to tell you if it's available or not. Yup, I just received the file. Chris Fearnley fearnlcj@duvm.bitnet fearnlcj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us cfearnl@cpp.pha.pa.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:43:04 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kenn Thomas Subject: Re: How to get files In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 1 Sep 1993 15:43:13 -0500 from Why am I getting this? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:43:27 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kenn Thomas Subject: Re: How to get files In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:26:59 EDT from I don't want this. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 22:31:49 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Luis Vazquez <71702.2275@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Anthro-1 List Do anyone know if this list, anthro-1 (anthropology) still exist on this domain? I keep getting error messages. Luis, in Houston, TX ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 08:13:00 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: OPERATOR@ROIFA.BITNET ref ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1993 07:32:00 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: OPERATOR@ROIFA.BITNET Subject: REF REF ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1993 08:42:00 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: OPERATOR@ROIFA.BITNET database ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1993 18:52:32 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Hilve A. Firek" Subject: Help? Hello. I teach English at the Southside Virginia Governor's School for Global Economics and Technology. My students are getting ready to start on a geodesic dome project with the hopes of building one on a nearby high school site. Would anyone care to e-mail these students to monitor their progress, offer pearls of advice, be e-mail mentors? Also, any required reading suggestions? Many thanks! Hilve Firek hfirek@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 00:49:17 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: Help? In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 20 Sep 1993 18:52:32 EDT from I have never built a dome before - so I can't offer any advise, but I'm curious: Do they understand the dome principles and mathematics or are you all following some cookbook dome manual. The used to be many dome building guidebooks - but most are now out of print. Any book by Hugh Kenner on Bucky or domes would of course be very helpful. BTW, Kenner was an English scholar at Johns Hopkinns U. Don't know his current status though. But he wrote very well about dome math &etc., Good Luck on your project!! Chris Fearnley fearnlcj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu fearnlcj@duvm.bitnet cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us cfearnl@cpp.pha.pa.us chris.fearnley@pacsibm.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 12:30:34 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tyko Kihlstedt Subject: Re: Help? As with Mr. Fearnley, I have never built a geodesic, and I also recommend Kenner as an introduction to Bucky. I do have another suggestion, and that is that your students start by making small-scale models out of thin wooden dowels--maybe as individual or two-person teams projects--get together and discuss the problems encountered in the manufacture and assembly as a prelude to making a larger structure. Also, I bet the local library would have one of the dome books--even though they were usually large format and paperback, so not as sturdy as hardback editions. Good luck ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 16:07:06 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tom Dosemagen Subject: Re: Help? I have built a 44' diameter dome which I have lived in for the past 13 years. I would be happy to offer my assistance. I also have a good rapport with a dome manufacturer that I'm sure would be willing to help as well. Looking forward to hearing from you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 22:19:59 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: BHF5000 Please include me in your discussion group!! Thanks in advance!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 22:34:21 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tyko Kihlstedt Subject: Identifying self Dear BHF5000 from McGill: Who are you and what do you do? Maybe we should have some protocol as we send messages so that we can know ourselves as more than a series of ciphers. I happen to be an art & architectural historian at Franklin & Marshall College--that's enough for now, I've got a late night of preparing lectures. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 01:06:06 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: Help? In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 21 Sep 1993 16:07:06 CST from Wow! You lived in a dome for 13 Years. Does it still hold its charm? Or do its advantages make it a burden for you to visit conventional buildings? Outside of the accomplishment of building it yourself what else does dome living to to one psychologically? Chris Fearnley fearnlcj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 08:22:41 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kenn Thomas Subject: I mean off! I don't know how many messages I have sent to un-subscribe from this list, but no matter how many times I do it, mail keeps appearing in my box. COuld you pl ease remove my name completely and permanently?--KT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 12:21:22 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bill Long Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA Subject: Re: Help? >From: "Hilve A. Firek" > >Hello. > >I teach English at the Southside Virginia Governor's School for >Global Economics and Technology. My students are getting ready >to start on a geodesic dome project with the hopes of building >one on a nearby high school site. > >Would anyone care to e-mail these students to monitor their >progress, offer pearls of advice, be e-mail mentors? Hilve, Last fall I built a very simple dome-like structure based on the geometry of an icosahedron which I use as a storage building. This summer I built another (much smaller) one for use as a doghouse. I plan to build another one of intermediate size for a telescope storage building/observatory when I find a suitable site. In each case the construction techniques I use vary depending on the size and use of the structure. I would be happy to share my experiences with you and your students even though so far I've been limited to these "simplest" form of domes. >Also, any required reading suggestions? What piqued my interest in domes was an article in an early issue (#4 I think) of a publication called "The Mother Earth News" which explained how to figure out the strut lengths without too much spherical trigonometry invloved. I'll get back to you with a better reference. Also there were books called Domebook I and II (again, I'll try to look up better references to these) that showed many examples of dome houses and discuss various design and construction considerations. Bill Long lab mechanician SUNY at Plattsburgh, NY bitnet: longwj@snyplava.bitnet internet: longwj@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 12:28:42 -0500 Reply-To: Gary Pattillo Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Pattillo Subject: Re: I mean off! In-Reply-To: <199309221530.AA23476@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> I was originally only going to send this to Kenn, but thought other folks on the list who didn't already know this might also find the info useful. Kenn, Are you following the necessary steps to unsubscribe? To unsubscribe from ANY bitnet LISTSERV list, send the following message to the LISTSERV address which handles the particular discussion list. DO NOT SEND THE MESSAGE TO THE LIST ITSELF. THIS IS CONSIDERED VERY RUDE AND LOATHSOME ON THE NET AND WILL NOT WIN YOU VERY MANY FRIENDS. Everyone on the list has to read your message. You can see how annoying this can get. For example, for you to unsubscribe from the GEODESIC list, send the following message to: LISTSERV@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu unsubscribe geodesic Leave the Subject: line blank. That's all there is to it! The LISTSERV is software residing on a machine and does not understand the English language. You must use very specific commands which it recognizes, such as the UNSUBSCRIBE command above. One other thing: You must send the unsubscribe message from the account from which you subscribed. Good luck. On Wed, 22 Sep 1993, Kenn Thomas wrote: > I don't know how many messages I have sent to un-subscribe from this list, but > no matter how many times I do it, mail keeps appearing in my box. COuld you p l > ease remove my name completely and permanently?--KT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 10:43:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: apang@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU Subject: Domebooks The bibliographic references for the _Domebooks_ are: Lloyd Kahn et al, Domebook One (Los Gatos, CA: Pacific Domes, 1970) Lloyd Kahn, et al, Domebook Two (Bolinas, CA: Pacific Domes, 1971) If these cannot be found at your local library or through inter-library loan, I recommend you look for Kahn's _Refried Domes_ (Bolinas: Shelter Publications, 1989; ISBN 0-936070-10-2). Its available from Shelter for $7. Their address is P.O. Box 279, Bolinas 94924. It contains material reprinted from _Domebook 2_, _Shelter_, and _Shelter 2_. Another book to look for iSteve Baer, _Dome Cookbook_ (Lama Publications, 1968); as I recall, it has tables for computing strut lengths and some useful information about dome construction. On the subject of domes: I am beginning to collect interviews and other recollections on encounters with Fuller and his work, and on experiences with building and living in domes, for a history of Fuller and the geodesic dome from 1950 to the mid-1970s. Even if you've never built a dome, I'm curious as to how people hear about and become interested in Fuller and his work. Feel free to respond to me directly if you want, rather than through the bulletin board. Best, Alex Soojung-Kim Pang Department of History University of California, Berkeley Berkeley CA 94720 apang@garnet.berkeley.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 18:17:32 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "Carey W. Mason" Organization: Encore Computer Corp. Subject: Dome Info My family and myself have constructed 2 domes: 39' and 45'. Here's my source for engineering advice, plans, and parts: Geodesic Domes Attn:Roundhouse PO Box 183 Eustis, Fl 32726 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 14:21:18 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bill Long Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA Subject: Re: I mean off! Date sent: 22-SEP-1993 14:09:22 Hi All, I agree with what Gary just said except that the command you should send to listserv@ubvm.bitnet is SIGNOFF not unsubscribe! ~~~~~~~ This command can also be sent interactively (from the dcl prompt...on my machine that's a $) as well as via e-mail. Just enter the command: send listserv@ubvm signoff geodesic from the same account that you subscribed from. If for some reason your account has changed, ask your local network administrator to set up an account in your old userid and issue a global signoff command (this happened to me once) from that account. This will remove you from any lists you may still be subscribed to from the old account. When all else fails, try to contact the listowner and have them remove you manually from the list. You can find out who that is by sending the command: send listserv@ubvm review geodesic (again, from the dcl or $ prompt) and you'll get a network file sent to you showing everyone who is currently subscribed to the list with the listowner first. If you must choose this option then I suggest you e-mail the listowner with your request. Hope this clears up some misconceptions. Bill Long longwj@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu p.s. when you subscribed you should have received a message from the listsever telling you some of the listserver commands and how to unsubscribe...next time save that message! If you'd like a copy I can send you the one I got. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 15:21:43 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tyko Kihlstedt Subject: Kenn Thomas' dilemma Is it "UNSUBSCRIBE GEODESIC" or is it "SIGNOFF GEODESIC" ?? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 09:11:49 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bill Long Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA Subject: FWD: Your subscription to list GEODESIC Date sent: 23-SEP-1993 09:05:01 OK, you asked for it...here's the message I received from listserv@ubvm when I subscribed to the geodesic list. >Date: 13 Jul 1993 10:21:41 -0400 >From: BITNET list server at UBVM (1.7f) >Subject: Your subscription to list GEODESIC >To: Bill Long >Reply-to: GEODESIC-Request@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU > >Dear networker, > > Your subscription to list GEODESIC (List for the discussion of Buckminster >Fuller's works) has been accepted. > > You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF GEODESIC" command to >LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET (or LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU). Please note that this >command must NOT be sent to the list address (GEODESIC@UBVM) but to the >LISTSERV address (LISTSERV@UBVM). > > The amount of acknowledgement you wish to receive from this list upon >completion of a mailing operation can be changed by means of a "SET GEODESIC >option" command, where "option" may be either "ACK" (mail acknowledgement), >"MSGACK" (interactive messages only) or "NOACK". > > Contributions sent to this list are automatically archived. You can obtain a >list of the available archive files by sending an "INDEX GEODESIC" command to >LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET (or LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU). These files can then be >retrieved by means of a "GET GEODESIC filetype" command, or using the database >search facilities of LISTSERV. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more >information on the latter. > > Please note that it is presently possible for other people to determine that >you are signed up to the list through the use of the "REVIEW" command, which >returns the network address and name of all the subscribers. If you do not wish >your name to be available to others in this fashion, just issue a "SET GEODESIC >CONCEAL" command. > > More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV reference >card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" command to >LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET (or LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU). > >Virtually, > > The LISTSERV management Hope this clears it up. Actually, I haven't been on a list where unsubscribe messages didn't get posted to the list on a regular bases. Didn't everyone get this message when they subscribed? Bill Long longwj@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 16:17:48 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tom Dosemagen Subject: Re: Help? My entire family very much enjoys living in our dome. I don't find it a burden to visit conventional type homes but would find it difficult to live in anything but a dome. I have lived in "box" type homes and I don't believe that living in dome has affected us one way or another psychologically. There are five other families within five miles of our dome that live in domes and we all share the same feelings about our homes. If you have any other questions please feel free tocall. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 23:17:05 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Daniel Lottero Organization: Boston University Subject: ftp site??? My mom is really interested in Bucky. I would like to get some info about him, his ideas, inventions, etc. but I don't know where to get any of it! Could someone please post an ftp site or whatever resource I can use thru the net to get info? Thanks, Dan. dlottero@acs.bu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 00:47:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: apang@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU Subject: Re: ftp site??? In-Reply-To: <9309240719.AA03239@garnet.berkeley.edu> from "Daniel Lottero" at Sep 23, 93 11:17:05 pm Dear Dan, I don't know of any ftp sites, but there are a couple books by or about Fuler and his work that would be good introductions. All of them should be easily-available in as library-rich an area as Boston! For Fuller's work, two good books are Fuller and Robert Marks, _The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller_ (c. 1963, reprinted 1970). Marks was a book editor who worked with Fuller on a couple projects, and the books gives a good introduction to his ideas and inventions. Another good but less comprehensive book is _Inventions_, which has his patents. There have been numerous hagiographies of Fuller published over the years, sometimes reasonably good reads but mainly industriously unreflective and uncritical. Hugh Kenner's biography is probably the best. Fuller's own writings are quite difficult to get through (Wendell Barry in _Speaking for Words_ has an excellent critique of Fuller's writing style), but I think _Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth_ is somewhat more accessible and representative of his prose and thinking. There are also a number of magazine articles, published mainly in the 1950s to 1970s, that profile Fuller and give "day in the life" views of him. These have been indexed in a bio-bibliography published by Vance (which does a lot of these for public figures) available at your university library. Fuller's public impact peaked in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and some artifacts from that period, most notably the _Whole Earth Catalog_ and the _Domebooks_, give a good sense of what people thought of them now. They're also a bit of a walk down memory lane, as the _WEC_ was as ubiquitous as the Sears Catalog in certain counties and college towns. Good luck in your search. Best, Alex Soojung-Kim Pang Department of History, U.C. Berkeley ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 10:04:01 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Pattillo Subject: Re: unsubscribe vs. signoff In-Reply-To: <199309240202.AA00348@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> FYI: Both the UNSUBSCRIBE and the SIGNOFF commands work the same on most (all?) listservs. I tested the unsubscribe command with the results below. Now back to our discussion of Buckminster Fuller! ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() >From LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Fri Sep 24 10:03:27 1993 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 19:15:51 -0400 From: BITNET list server at UBVM To: Gary Pattillo Subject: Output of your job "garyp" > unsubscribe geodesic You have been removed from list GEODESIC. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1993 01:56:34 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: ftp site??? In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 23 Sep 1993 23:17:05 GMT from On Thu, 23 Sep 1993 23:17:05 GMT Daniel Lottero said: > My mom is really interested in Bucky. I would like to get some >info about him, his ideas, inventions, etc. but I don't know where >to get any of it! > > Could someone please post an ftp site or whatever resource I can >use thru the net to get info? > I think this mailing-list or newsgroup is the only organized Fuller- related thing going on the net (unless you are a chemist interested in the Fullerene bibliography). There are several of us here who are itching for a good conversation - or simply to share our resources with you - re: Fuller and his work, inventions, etc., > > Thanks, Dan. > > > dlottero@acs.bu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1993 11:09:36 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Hilve A. Firek" Subject: Many thanks! I want to thank all those on the Geodesic discussion group for their kind offers of assistance for my students who are embarking on a dome project. I will be contacting each of you individually soon, and passing along my students' e-mail addresses (once we get them set up). The project is being team-taught by a math teacher, Darryl Diggs (ddiggs@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu), a science teacher, Steve Povlish (spovlish@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu) and me. I look forward to keeping you up to date on our students' progress. Thanks again for your offers of guidance :) Hilve Firek hfirek@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 09:26:41 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Ross Keatinge Organization: Public Access Internet Services, Auckland New Zealand Subject: Domes etc I have just recently gained access to a BBS with full Usenet and was really pleased to find this group which I didn't know existed. apang@garnet.berkeley.edu (Alex Pang) was asking a week or so ago how people got interested in Bucky and has work. I got interested in domes when I saw two at a show in Sydney Australia two years ago. When I got home to New Zealand I build a couple of bird avaries. They were 4 meter diameter 2 frequency half spheres. One was made from electrical plastic conduit tubing (about 20 mm diameter) with the end of each strut squashed flat and a bolt put through the 5 or 6 flattened ends as the hubs. The other dome was made of 20 mm square wooden struts. The hubs consisted of 100 mm diameter flexible PVC disks. Both constructions worked well as far as the frame was concerned but covering them in wire netting was a real pain :-) I have made a few models. The best is a 1.2 meter diameter 3 frequency sphere made from wooden dowel and plastic tubing for hubs. This sits as an ornament in the front garden :-) I'm reasonably serious about building a dome house some day. Since then I have become very interested in Bucky's work in general and have read 'Critical Path', 'Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth' and am now wading slowly through 'Synergetics'. I attended an 'Introduction to Buckminster Fuller' weekend workshop presented by Jerry Speiser who as fairly well known as the drummer in the Australian band 'Men at Work'. I'm interested in taking part in any discussions on domes and Bucky's work in general. Does anyone know what became of the Old Man River project ? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ross Keatinge icosa@bbs.status.gen.nz Auckland, New Zealand. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 12:33:41 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Wanserski subscribe geodesic John Wanserski John J. Wanserski Kurt F. Wendt Engineering Library Associate Director for 215 N. Randall Avenue Faculty/Student Services Madison, WI 53706-1688 Phone: 608/263-5674 or 262-7883 FAX: 608/262-4739 Bitnet: JWKFW@WISCMACC Internet: JWKFW@macc.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 12:17:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: apang@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU Subject: Old Man River project In-Reply-To: <9309271722.AA07916@garnet.berkeley.edu> from "Ross Keatinge" at Sep 27, 93 09:26:41 am The Old Man River project never got off the drawing boards. It was mainly the work of Washington University architecture prof James Fitzgibbon. He had a long relationship with Fuller, extending back to the early 1950s. Fitzgibbon had designed a domed city to be built on Frobisher Bay in Canada in 1956, and Old Man River was an extension and expansion of that earlier plan. It was also designed to address problems that architects, planners, and policy-makers considered central in the late 1960s and early 1970s, viz. racial segregation, urban decay, and economic growth in the inner cities. Old Man River would have provided housing and services for several thousand families in the most depressed section of St. Louis. It would have been built and managed by a non-profit corporation, and taken something like 20 years to complete; in Fitzgibbon's evocative phrase, it would have been not only good housing, but a "job machine," a huge project creating new industries in the area by virtue of its immensity. Fuller claimed that it would be the incubator of a new classless, raceless society. However, it never got anything close to the $1 billion required to build it, and the St. Louis municipal government never seemed to have taken it seriously. It is also interesting to note that this was the most modest of a series of urban renewal projects that Fuller was involved in at the time: his proposals for floating cities, renovation of Harlem (which involved tearing down all the buildings and erecting a series of apartment blocks that looked like nuclear plant cooling towers), and floating spherical cities all date from this period. Ironically, they represent a kind of technocratic vision that many of Fuller's followers in the counterculture rejected, though the tension between the _Whole Earth Catalog_ and _Domebook_ interpretation of Bucky and the Bucky that was proposing to build cooling towers on Harlem never became strong. Alex Soojung-Kim Pang Department of History, UC Berkeley apang@garnet.berkeley.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 03:13:34 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: Old Man River project In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 27 Sep 1993 12:17:52 -0700 from Although you say that the Old Man River Project failed and gave dates in the 60s and 70s, Fuller writes very highly of the project in his 1981 book _Critical Path_. I believe he mentions Fitzgibbon's work on it as if implying that the project is in "good hands." Is Fitzgibbon still working on it or has the project completely died. Thanks for the info, I have been interested in what happened since reading _Critical Path_. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 03:51:46 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: Domes etc In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 27 Sep 1993 09:26:41 GMT from I'd love to discuss any Fuller (and other) related stuff. Maybe you could form a cogent question from your reading of synergetics (or other), then I'll add my two cents!! Do Enjoy! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 01:26:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Alex Soojung-Kim Pang Subject: Fuller and failure In-Reply-To: <9309280723.AA03550@garnet.berkeley.edu> from "Chris Fearnley" at Sep 28, 93 03:13:34 am The Old Man River project may not have been officially abandoned at the time Fuller was working on _Critical Path_, but it was definitely dead as a doornail years before. As for Fitzgibbon, he died around 1985. More generally, Fuller had a rather more generous notion of what constituted a "successful" use or demonstration of his technologies than most people. (A less generous description would be that he exaggerated his claims.) The Marine Corps' experiments with geodesic domes in the early 1950s, for example, came to virtually naught, but Fuller used the conclusions of Corps technical studies and field tests as proof that the dome could be used, as he put it, to win either the Cold -or- the Hot War. (This in a letter to the Air Force in 1956.) Cheers, Alex Soojung-Kim Pang Department of History, UC Berkeley ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 04:42:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: your.name@ANU.EDU.AU Organization: The Australian National University Subject: Node design/ideas wanted Hi, I've had experience in building a portable geodesic (4 freq. icosa) and am interested in hearing from anyone who has tackled the design of a node for larger structures (7+metre radius) using (thin, eg 30 mm) aluminium struts. Does anyone know if/where components such as these can be purchased? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Suggested great Fuller read: Intuition. Cheers, D. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 06:39:14 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Andreas Mengel Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin Subject: Need of names Hi everybody, I am in search of databases providing names on topological items, resp. mountains, lakes, rivers, seas, valleys and the like. I am a linguist working on a european project called ONOMASTICA the main concern of which is a European pronunciation dictionary for names. Any idea? Andreas Mengel mengel@ftsu09.ee.tu-berlin.de Andreas Mengel Technische Universitaet Berlin Phone +49 30 314-24578 Institut fuer Fernmeldetechnik Fax +49 30 314-22514 Einsteinufer 25 mengel@ftsu09.ee.tu-berlin.de 10587 Berlin Germany ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 11:21:12 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tom Dosemagen Subject: Re: Node design/ideas wanted Try calling Natural Spaces at 1-800-733-7107. They are a dome manufacturer and sell everything from complete dome packages to just the connector system. They also have a book available called All About Domes that you might be interested in. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 22:20:25 EDT Reply-To: velasteve@aol.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Stephen Velazquez Subject: Why domes?? I'm new to this list and Bucky's works and I was wondering what exactly are the advantages of living in a dome? Another thing... are the claims made in the description of this list (floating cities, ocean cities, etc) based on at least some amount of respectable science or was this all theory? If so, what were these theories based on? Any recommendations for books that cover some of these more fantastical claims would also be appreciated. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 03:33:07 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: David.Worrall@ANU.EDU.AU Organization: The Australian National University Subject: node design ideas wanted#2 Hi, I've had experience in building a portable geodesic (4 freq. icosa) and am interested in hearing from anyone who has tackled the design of a node for larger structures (7+metre radius) using (thin, eg 30 mm) aluminium struts. Does anyone know if/where components such as these can be purchased? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Suggested great Fuller read: Intuition. Cheers, D.