From MAILER-DAEMON@netaxs.com Tue Oct 24 17:02:57 1995 Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [128.205.2.1]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA00243 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:02:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199510242102.RAA00243@access.netaxs.com> Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 5427; Tue, 24 Oct 95 17:01:10 EDT Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0545; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 16:34:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 16:34:06 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at UBVM (1.8b)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9502" To: "Christopher J. Fearnley" Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 23:59:59 -0500 Reply-To: JustWINK Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Manhattan dome >Why would you want to dome-up a city anyway? Why would you want to stay under a shelter anyway? Why would you want to stay under a dome-shaped cushion of gravitationally-adhered atmosphere anyway? Why would you want to stick to a planetary surface anyway? Doming NY was some kind of example. Most of us are not too serious about it, but it did enable some very interesting comparisons and speculation. Wink Charles E. Peck ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 23:55:42 -0500 Reply-To: JustWINK Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: dymaxion car crash Some time ago, I was researching the dymaxion car, and ended up retracing it's ownership and so on ( an interesting story in itself). In the process, I contacted the Chicago coroner's office and tried to locate a copy of the coroner's inquest that was said to have vindicated the car. The document was unavailable, though I have talked to people who have seen it and confirm its content. I also talked to a few engineers who had written on the subject of rear-wheel steering (a subject of great debate in the context of this vehicle), one of whom had spoken briefly with Bucky. They all basically confirmed what Bucky said in his patent (placement of CofG critical) and the one said that Bucky had privately admitted that he would (at that later time) use RWS only at very low speeds for the agility that the car was famous for, using FWS at high speeds - After all, front wheel drive is now a mature technology, steering and all. Wink Charles E. Peck ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:59:38 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Cal Eastman Subject: Re: Bucky's attitudes about food? In-Reply-To: <199501312042.PAA21598@hela.INS.CWRU.Edu> life subsits on life. from the first dna molecule that "learned" to gather material from other molecules to build itself, life has used the material of other life for its own purpose. no one lives off inorganic material. i personally find teh plant/animal line to fine to actually draw. If it is "immoral" to take life to survive, then its AS immoral to take the life of teh potato, as the cow. Chris rush said he draws the line at animals that come to him when he calls.. cows yes, dogs no, cats sometimes. the jain of s india believe the universe runs finew without us, so non-interference is teh rule. The only eat fruit that has fallen, and grain that has wilted on teh stalk. These are teh truest "moral" eaters. HOwever i dont accept the dichotmy. We are nature, what we do CANNOT be outside of nature, ie unnatural. goatma buddha died when chokeing on a piece of bad pork. The middle path is just that, a striving to stay away from extremes, that pull one out of balance. most hindus eat meat. there is a wonderful sufi story, about a student, who hears from a woman about her guru, who lives in india, who eats only oranges. He went to his master and said , why master, if one can live off oranges, why do you eat meat? themaster replied that allah made a perfect universe, and in it , meat tastes good. he eats it because he likes it. is it unhealthy to eat too much meat? yes. (though augustus owsley,et al, eat only meat, they say vegetables are slave food..given by teh masters to animals and other workers) ows;ley says the only vegetable he eats is coffee. is he healthy? well he always looks a little pasty to me, but that could be his lifestyle - but he is very strong, muscular and energetic. but back to the point, is it unhealthy to eat any meat? no. Are there indidualks for who a vegitarian diet is healthier? yes. Does this mean that it is true foer everyone? no. Is it true oit takes more acreage to raise meat that veg? yes. But what of teh caloric payoff, vitamins, proteins, etc... it is not a simple acre of wheat to acre of beef comparison. and there is enough food to go around to feed even this sadly overpopulated planet. its politics that makes people starve, not what is eaten. bucky's greatest gift to us was the emphasis on an open mind. peace Boom shiva mahalinga nataraj :) (puffiness 4evah) On Tue, 31 Jan 1995, Michael Stutz wrote: > >> >Humans are omniverous. We need a variety of sustenance to > >> >satisfy our dietary needs. Sure a vegatarian can live without > >> >eating meat - but be totally healthy - not. > >> > >> Do you have any figures, or pointers to information I could followup > >> on? > > > >Unfortunately - no (however, I will look into it). > >I based my statement on history and human culture. > >Even our cave dwelling ancestors had a diet of plants and animals. > Aren't these views Eurocentric? [or are they? I'm forgetting the > Greek Pythagoreans] What about Hindus, Tibetan Buddhists, Taoists, > Zen Buddhists? Their texts are very old, very ancient -- yes, a great > many humans have successfully lived vegetarian over the expanse of > recorded history. Are there any anthropologists out there -- wasn't > it australanpithicenes (sp?) who were the first meat-eating of our > ancestors, the first cave-dweller whose teeth etc allowed for > meat-eating? There was something on the AP wire about 2 weeks ago > about our first anscestors who ate meat. > > >My point being it is unnatural for humans to rely on plants alone. > Right; my point being it is. > > >> Since I have stopped eating animals, I have become very healthy > >> -- I've never been more energetic, etc. > >Let's be scientific about this. Is that the only change you made? > No, I stopped drinking cola and only drink tea instead. ;-) > Seriously though, I'm not concerned in the slightest about my health. > Let the meat industry scoff at vegetarians (and to be fair, "let the > vegetable farmers rejoice"); what I'm interested in is whether or not > the moral decision of nonviolence toward all sentient beings is a > practical, natural and sensible way to live. I am interested in > altruistic life management -- I want to know how Universe works, > whether or not violence and killing are inevitable. The argument that you > kill bacteria and countless other organisms with every breath doesn't > hold for me -- because that is all unavoidable. I don't _have_ to eat > meat -- again, I'd argue that I'm healthier this way. And if I'm > wrong? Then I guess, like that old song, I'm the fly in the ointment. > > > >From the rec.foods.veg faq: > > Here is another (from "Physicians Committee for Responsible > Medicine"): > > THE PROTEIN MYTH > > In the past, some people believed one could never get too much > protein. In the early 1900's, Americans were told to eat well > over 100 grams of protein a day. And as recently as the > 1950's, health-conscious people were encouraged to boost their > protein intake. The reality is that the average American > takes in twice the amount of protein he or she needs. Excess > protein has been linked with osteoporosis, kidney disease, > calcium stones in the urinary tract, and some cancers. Despite > all this, many people still worry about getting enough > protein. > > The Building Blocks of Life: > > People build the proteins of their bodies from amino acids, > which, in turn, come from the proteins they eat. Protein is > abundant in nearly all of the foods people eat. A varied diet > of beans, peas, lentils, grains, and vegetables contains all > of the essential amino acids. Animal products are high in > protein, but are undesirable because of their high fat and > cholesterol content. Fat and cholesterol promote heart > disease, cancer, and many other health problems. One can > easily meet the body's protein requirements with plant foods. > > It used to be believed that various plant foods had to be > eaten together to get their full protein value, but many > nutrition authorities, including the American Dietetic > Association, have determined that intentional combining is not > necessary.1 As long as one's diet includes a variety of > grains, legumes, and vegetables, protein needs are easily met. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 10:13:08 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Cal Eastman Subject: Re: Manhattan dome X-To: JustWINK In-Reply-To: <199502011101.GAA06440@hela.INS.CWRU.Edu> there is a recent sf book out called MANHATTAN TRANSFER. another is "CITY TALES" i belive by simak Boom shiva mahalinga nataraj :) (puffiness 4evah) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 01:36:23 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: World Game Institute Organization: Drexel University Subject: WGI Workshop Schedule Jan 20 WORLD GAME INSTITUTE WORKSHOPS SCHEDULE 1994-95-96 Schedule as of January 20 We invite you to visit an upcoming event. Contact us for more information. World Game Institute Email: xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu 3215 Race Street Phone: (215) 387-0220 Philadelphia, PA 19104-2597 Fax: (215) 387-3009 * Environmental Workshop ** Diversity Workshop 1/18/95 Holdrum Middle School, Rivervale, NJ 1/23,24/95 Dwight-Englewood School, Englewood, NJ 1/26/95 Darien High School, Darien, CT 1/27/95 Linn Benton Comm. College, Albany, OR 1/27/95 Yale University, New Haven, CT 1/28/95 Lutheran Campus Ministries, Blacksburg, VA 2/8/95 SUNY-Plattsburgh, Plattsburgh, NY 2/10/95 AIA Minnesota, Duluth, MN 2/13/95 Motorola, Schaumburg, IL 2/15/95 Florida Community College, Jacksonville, FL** 2/16,17/95 Peddie School, Hightstown, NJ** 2/17/95 Roy F. Weston, Inc., West Chester, PA 3/3/95 Morristown Baird School, Morristown, NJ 3/4/95 Rennsalaer Polytechnic Inst., Troy, NY 3/7/95 Franklin Township School, Quakertown, NJ 3/8/95 Nutley Public Schools, Nutley, NJ 3/15/95 Great Lakes Invit. Conference, Flint, MI 3/21,22/95 Paramus HS, Paramus, NJ** 3/22,23/95 Motorola, Phukat, Thailand 3/24/95 Ranney School, Tinton Falls, NJ 3/27/95 Motorola, Singapore 3/28/95 Briarcliff Middle School, Mountain Lakes, NJ 3/30/95 Highland Elem. School, Midland Park, NJ 3/31-4/1 Colgate University, Hamilton, NY* 4/2/95 EcoJustice, Cornell U., Ithaca, NY* 4/7/95 Johnathan Dayton HS, Springfield, NJ 4/11/95 North Arlington HS, N. Arlington, NJ* 4/12/95 Valley Middle School, Oakland, NJ 4/13/95 Burlington Co. Inst. of Tech., W. Hampton, NJ** 4/19/95 Eco-Action, PennState Univ., State Coll., PA* 4/20/95 Morris Hills High School, Rockaway, NJ 4/20-22/95 Iowa Dept. of Education, Des Moines, IA* 4/24/95 Motorola, Schaumburg, IL 4/26/95 Southern Regional HS, Manahawkin, NJ 4/27/95 Museum of Disc. & Sci., Ft. Lauderdale, FL* 5/3/95 West Morris Central HS, Chester, NJ* 5/4/95 Columbia School, Berkeley Heights, NJ 5/4/95 Scottsdale Leadership, Scottsdale, AZ 5/8/95 Motorola, Germany 5/9/95 Hubbard Middle School, Plainfield, NJ 5/10/95 Maxson Middle School, Plainfield, NL 5/10/95 Passiac Co. Votech HS, Wayne, NJ 5/16/95 Plainfield High School, Plainfield, NJ** 5/18,19/95 Roxbury High School, Succasunna, NJ** 5/24/95 Montgomery High School, Skillman, NJ 5/25/95 Edison Intermediate School, Westfield, NJ 6/8/95 Columbia School, Berkeley Heights, NJ 6/12/95 Motorola, Schaumburg, IL 6/27/95 Youth Envir. Summit, Loveland, CO* 7/3/95 Motorola, Singapore 7/10/95 Motorola, Schaumburg, IL 8/13-15/95 Presby. Peacemaking Program, Hempstead, NY** 9/4/95 Motorola, Singapore 9/11/95 Motorola, Schaumburg, IL 10/9/95 Motorola, Schaumburg, IL 1/15/96 Fay School, Southborough, MA** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 02:16:33 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Market Reconnaissance Organization: iiNet Technologies Subject: Re: Manhattan dome In article , Ted Campbell says: >I simply can't believe that inventinging things is going to solve all of >the worlds problems. Whether or not one chooses to get involved in >political game playing, one needs to address the fact that other people >are playing politics and inventing things is not going to change that fact. > >There are even more serious problems the mere political game playing. >People believe differently and live differently as a result of their >beliefs. How does Buckminster Fuller address the problem of a Jewish >homeland? The floating sphere? :-) Well, I can answer that: Fuller addresses it by saying that >anti-semitism is the result of "not enough to go around." He believes >that inventing things will stop the anti-semites from killing us. Spend more time on the global network. Hard to kill someone with a computer. >Fuller is wrong. Wrong? I seem to remember quite at lot of Fuller writings on redirecting armament monies into more productive activities. We keep spending on guns bombs etc someone sure to get shot. How about a global non-government-aid-organisation that sets up internet nodes and access for countries without? Would be cheeper than building a wall along the Gaza strip? Just to keep on subject - a few well build geodesic structures for people to operate these computers in would be a good use for some energy as well. Yours in Utopia William Croft Perth Asutralia mktrecon@iinet.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 12:22:05 EDT Reply-To: rodrigo@lsi.usp.br Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rodrigo de Almeida Siqueira Subject: RE_Fuller_and_Utopia Hello ! > Renaissance took to the humanist (and ultimately classicist) belief that > architecture should reflect the ideal forms of the human body, which was > in turn a microcosmic reflection of the macrocosm. Fuller's tetrahedrons > reflect the greater scope/shape of Universe. Anyway, I'm rambling, but > this is the stuff upon which I'm ruminating. >(...) > while visual utopias are not in themselves utopian, but are rather > Ideal Cities which could, in turn, serve as the base for a utopian community. > If these definitions are to be accepted, then I believe Fuller's work > falls into the Ideal City scheme. "If you build it, they will come." > > - Marcia This reminds me the capital of Brazil: Brasilia. Brasilia is a planned city to be Ideal and political, in about 1950, planned by Oscar Niemeyer, a famous architect here. The city is located in he center of Brazil, where there was really nothing. Its architecture is based on a "Pilot Plan" (because it is simmilar to the plant of an airplane). The city is formed by two main axes: The body of an airplane (the main axe) and its wings, where in head of the airplane is located the building of the president and its ministeries and government. In the main axe (also the axe of symmetry) there is many very big planned constructions, everything made by the best architects they could find by the time the city was constructed. Around the axes are the Super Blocks. Each Super Block has its own school and it's own commerce street and usually four big buildings where people live. But usually people who live in one Super Block do not study in their own Super Block, because many Super Blocks bacame very specialized. The city has also "zones" (sectors): the sector of hotels, the sector of banks, of sport, one sector of each thing. All streets only have names like "Super block 403, W1" and so on.. Now, there are so many people around there, that appeared many totally non-planned small cities called "Satellite Cities" that orbitate the main Brasilia (the Pilot Plan). Usually what people says is that Brasilia was not made for human scale. Not for human beings, because things there are very huge. There difficult to cross the streets (everything planned to have few light signals for cars) and to walk there. The city is at the same time astonishing - wonderful and overwhelming. ------------ Rodrigo de Almeida Siqueira Webmaster at University of Sao Paulo, Brazil. e-mail: rodrigo@lsi.usp.br ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 20:47:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Neal Hilty Subject: Fwd: Forwarded message X-To: nerdosh@clovis.felton.ca.us ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >From tcowder@gpu.com Thu Feb 2 07:37:53 1995 Received: from power.gpu.com ([148.108.1.3]) by mail.industry.net (8.6.9/8.6.8) with SMTP id HAA04610 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 1995 07:37:14 -0500 Received: by power.gpu.com id AA04760 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for neal.e.hilty@mail.industry.net); Thu, 2 Feb 1995 07:31:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199502021231.AA04760@power.gpu.com> Received: by power.gpu.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 2 Feb 1995 07:31:08 -0500 Received: by power.gpu.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 2 Feb 1995 07:31:08 -0500 To: "neal.e.hilty" From: Tom Cowder Date: 2 Feb 95 7:30:33 EDT Subject: Forwarded message X-Lotus-Rtfattachment: Yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="-- alternate ----" X-Deliver-To: neal.e.hilty This is the preamble of an RFC-1341 encoded, alternate message. ---- alternate ---- Content-Type: Text/Plain To: ietf @ isi.edu @ smtp cc: (bcc: Tom Cowder) From: eng3dbh @ hibbs.vcu.edu ("David B. Henschel") @ smtp Date: 02-01-95 08:32:14 PM Subject: Fortran language makes people upset. Forwarded message: >From mac4msi@cabell.vcu.edu Wed Feb 1 01:02:16 1995 Message-Id: <9502010602.AA07989@cabell.vcu.edu> Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) To: mac4wpo@cabell.vcu.edu (William P. O'Bryan) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 1:02:12 EST From: Melanie S. Irvin Cc: eng3dbh X-Mailer: ELM-MIME [version 1.0 PL0] Forwarded message: >From mac4bww Tue Jan 31 21:22:59 1995 Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) To: mac4msi (Melanie S. Irvin) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 21:22:58 EST From: Brian W. Whitson X-Mailer: ELM-MIME [version 1.0 PL0] Forwarded message: >From ted4adp Tue Jan 31 16:43:42 1995 Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) To: mac4bww (Brian W. Whitson) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 16:43:39 EST From: Amy D. Petersek X-Mailer: ELM-MIME [version 1.0 PL0] Forwarded message: >From eng4dgb@hibbs.vcu.edu Thu Jan 26 13:57:24 1995 Message-Id: <9501261857.AA28794@hibbs.vcu.edu> Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) To: ted4adp Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 13:57:22 EST From: Donna G. Bryant X-Mailer: ELM-MIME [version 1.0 PL0] Forwarded message: >From rarust@hamlet.uncg.edu Thu Jan 26 12:40:24 1995 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 12:40:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Rachel A. Rust" X-Sender: rarust@hamlet To: Donna Bryant Cc: larson@turing.uncg.edu Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:27:07 -0500 (EST) From: JAMES D. SPROUSE To: "Rachel A. Rust" Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:28:30 -0500 (EST) From: Heather A. Worthington To: jdsprous@hamlet.uncg.edu Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 00:07:40 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Renee Snyder To: heather worthington Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 21:32:40 -0500 (EST) From: Sonal Dinesh Thekdi To: Michael Adam Bolch Cc: Jill Renee Snyder Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 00:23:30 -0500 (EST) From: Lindsay Brooke Renner To: Sonal Dinesh Thekdi Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) HA HA HA! Now you have it! I HATE chain letters, don't you. However, this one is easier than most because you only have to forward it instead of making copies and sending them through the mail. Sorry anyways! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 11:32:39 EST From: Jennifer Lea Rhawn To: lbr1@acpub.duke.edu Cc: dancap@aol.com Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) Hi! I'm out to plague your life now. I haven't sent a chain mail letter in ages, but I thought you might enjoy this! Jenn Rhawn According to Kristen Marie Anonick: > From kma3x Sun Nov 13 15:28:19 1994 > From: Kristen Marie Anonick > Message-Id: <199411132028.PAA45766@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU> > Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) > To: jmm3u@Virginia.EDU (Julia MacMillan) > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 94 15:28:18 EST > Cc: jlr7y (Jennifer Rhawn) > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3.1 PL11] > > According to Teresa Lynn Divers: > >From daemon Mon Nov 7 15:12:49 1994 > From: Teresa Lynn Divers > Message-Id: <199411072012.PAA114431@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU> > Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) > To: tdd2n@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Todd Douglas Divers) > Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 15:12:47 EST > Cc: kma3x@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Kristen Marie Anonick), > bem2b@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu (Brooke McMinn), > mjallard@mail.vt.edu (Jonathan Mallard) > X-Mailer: PENELM [version 2.3.1 PL11] > > According to Theodora Lippitt Gongaware: > >From daemon Mon Nov 7 13:31:14 1994 > Resent-From: "Leslie D. Edwards" > Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 12:53:06 EST > X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.7.1 > Resent-To: tld6h@fermi.clas.virginia.edu > Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 15:38:25 -0500 > Resent-From: djm5a@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu > Resent-Message-Id: <199411052038.PAA02014@uva.pcmail.Virginia.EDU> > X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) > Resent-To: lpe8y@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu > Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 17:23:41 -0500 (EST) > From: Theodora Lippitt Gongaware > To: djm5a@virginia.edu > Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 00:00:18 -0400 (EDT) > From: Allyson Chari Goldstein > To: theodora@princeton.edu > Subject: Forwarded mail.... > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:08:11 -0500 > From: Elissa M. Blum > To: allysong@Princeton.EDU > > >>> > > >>> >> > >>> >> \\\|||/// \\\|||/// \\\|||/// > >>> >> . ======= . ======= . ======= > >>> >> / \| O O | / \| O O | / \| O O | > >>> >> \ / \v_'/ \ / \v_'/ \ / \v_'/ > >>> >> # _| |_ # _| |_ # _| |_ > >>> >> (#) ( ) (#) ( ) (#) ( ) > >>> >> #\//|* *|\\ #\//|* *|\\ #\//|* *|\\ > >>> >> #\/( * )/ #\/( * )/ #\/( * )/ > >>> >> # ===== # ===== # ===== > >>> >> # (\ /) # (\ /) # (\ /) > >>> >> # || || # || || # || || > >>> >> .#---'| |----. .#---'| |----. .#---'| |----. > >>> >> #----' -----' #----' -----' #----' -----' > >>> >> > >>> >> This message has been sent to you for good luck. The original > >>> >> is in New England. It has been sent around the world nine times. The > >>> >> luck has now been sent to you.You will receive good luck within four > >>> >> days of receiving this message - Provided you, in turn send it on. > >>> >> This is no joke. You will receive good luck in the mail. But no > >>> >> money. > >>> >> Send copies to people you think need good luck. Don't send money as > >>> >> fate has no price.Do not keep this message. This message must leave > >>> >> your hands in 96 hours. > >>> >> A United States Air Force Officer received 470,000 Dollars. > >>> >> Another Man received 40,000 Dollars and lost it because he broke the > >>> >> chain. > >>> >> Whereas in the Philippines, Gene Welch lost his wife 51 days after > >>> >> receiving the message. He failed to circulate the message. However, > >>> >> before his death, he received 7,555,000 dollars. > >>> >> Please send twenty copies and see what happen in four days. > >>> >> The chain comes from Venezuela and has written by Saul De Groda, > >>> >> A Missionary from South America. Since the copy must tour > >>> >> the world, you must make twenty copies and send them to friends and > >>> >> associates - After a few days you will get a surprise > >>> >> This is true, even if you are not superstitious. > >>> >> Do not the following: Constantine Dias received this chain in 1958. > >>> >> He asked his secretary to make twenty copies and send them out. A few > >>> >> days later he won a lottery of two million dollars. Carlos Daditt, an > >>> >> office employee, received the message and forgot that it had to leave his > >>> >> hands in 96 hours.He lost his job. > >>> >> Later, after finding that message again, He mailed twentycopies. A > >>> >> few days later he got a better job. Dalan Fairchild recege > >>> >> and, not believing - Threw the message away. Nine days later he died. > >>> >> In 1987, The message received by a young woman in California > >>> >> was very faded and barely readable. She promised herself that she > >>> >> would retype the message and send it on, But she t leave her hands within > >>>96 > >>> >>hours. She finally typed > >>> >> the letter as promised and got a new car. > >>> >> Good Luck but please remember: 20 copies of this message must leave > >>> >> your hands in 96 hours... You must not sign on this message... > > > > > > > > > ---- alternate ---- Content-Type: Application/X-Lotus-Notes; Name="BODY.RTF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: Base64 e1xydGYxIFxwYyB7XGNvbG9ydGJsXHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4wXGJsdWUwO1xyZWQyNTVc Z3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1ZTI1NTtccmVkMjU1XGdyZWVuMFxibHVlMDtccmVkMFxncmVl bjI1NVxibHVlMDtccmVkMFxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTI1NTtccmVkMjU1XGdyZWVuMFxi bHVlMjU1O1xyZWQyNTVcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1 ZTI1NTt9e1xmb250dGJsXGYwXGZyb21hbiBUbXMgUm1uO1xmMVxmc3dpc3MgSGVs djtcZjJcZm1vZGVybiBDb3VyaWVyO31cbWFyZ2wxNDQwIFxtYXJncjE0NDAgXG1h cmd0MTQ0MCBcbWFyZ2IxNDQwIFxzZWN0ZCBccGFyZCBcbGkzNiBcZmkwIFxyaTAg XHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTE0NDAgXGZpLTE0NDAgXHJp MCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwbGFpbiBcYiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmNCBUbzpc dGFiIA0KXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwIGlldGYgQCBpc2kuZWR1IEAgc210 cA0KXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkxNDQwIFxmaS0xNDQwIFxyaTAgXHNsMjQwIFxzYjAg XHNhMCBccGxhaW4gXGIgXGYxIFxmczIwIFxjZjQgY2M6XHRhYiANClxwbGFpbiBc YiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmNCAgDQpccGxhaW4gXGYxIFxmczIwIFxjZjAgKGJjYzog VG9tIENvd2RlcikNClxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMTQ0MCBcZmktMTQ0MCBccmkwIFxz bDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxiIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2Y0IEZyb206XHRh YiANClxwbGFpbiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmMCBlbmczZGJoIEAgaGliYnMudmN1LmVk dSAoIkRhdmlkIEIuIEhlbnNjaGVsIikgQCBzbXRwDQpccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTE0 NDAgXGZpLTE0NDAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwbGFpbiBcYiBcZjEg XGZzMjAgXGNmNCBEYXRlOlx0YWIgDQpccGxhaW4gXGYxIFxmczIwIFxjZjAgMDIt MDEtOTUgMDg6MzI6MTQgUE0NClxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMTQ0MCBcZmktMTQ0MCBc cmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxiIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2Y0IFN1 YmplY3Q6XHRhYiANClxwbGFpbiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmMCBGb3J0cmFuIGxhbmd1 YWdlIG1ha2VzIHBlb3BsZSB1cHNldC4NClxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxy aTAgXHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxz bDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwIEZvcndhcmRlZCBt ZXNzYWdlOlxwYXIgRnJvbSBtYWM0bXNpQGNhYmVsbC52Y3UuZWR1IFdlZCBGZWIg IDEgMDE6MDI6MTYgMTk5NVxwYXIgTWVzc2FnZS1JZDogPDk1MDIwMTA2MDIuQUEw Nzk4OUBjYWJlbGwudmN1LmVkdT5ccGFyIFN1YmplY3Q6IEZvcndhcmRlZCBtYWls Li4uLiAoZndkKVxwYXIgVG86IG1hYzR3cG9AY2FiZWxsLnZjdS5lZHUgKFdpbGxp YW0gUC4gTydCcnlhbilccGFyIERhdGU6IFdlZCwgMSBGZWIgOTUgMTowMjoxMiBF U1RccGFyIEZyb206IE1lbGFuaWUgUy4gSXJ2aW4gPG1hYzRtc2lAY2FiZWxsLnZj dS5lZHU+XHBhciBDYzogZW5nM2RiaFxwYXIgWC1NYWlsZXI6IEVMTS1NSU1FIFt2 ZXJzaW9uIDEuMCBQTDBdXHBhciANClxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAg XHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGxhaW4gXGYxIFxmczIwIFxjZjAgRm9yd2FyZGVk IG1lc3NhZ2U6XHBhciA+RnJvbSBtYWM0Ynd3IFR1ZSBKYW4gMzEgMjE6MjI6NTkg MTk5NVxwYXIgU3ViamVjdDogRm9yd2FyZGVkIG1haWwuLi4uIChmd2QpXHBhciBU bzogbWFjNG1zaSAoTWVsYW5pZSBTLiBJcnZpbilccGFyIERhdGU6IFR1ZSwgMzEg SmFuIDk1IDIxOjIyOjU4IEVTVFxwYXIgRnJvbTogQnJpYW4gVy4gV2hpdHNvbiA8 bWFjNGJ3dz5ccGFyIFgtTWFpbGVyOiBFTE0tTUlNRSBbdmVyc2lvbiAxLjAgUEww XVxwYXIgDQpccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxz YTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwIEZvcndhcmRlZCBtZXNzYWdlOlxwYXIg PkZyb20gdGVkNGFkcCBUdWUgSmFuIDMxIDE2OjQzOjQyIDE5OTVccGFyIFN1Ympl Y3Q6IEZvcndhcmRlZCBtYWlsLi4uLiAoZndkKVxwYXIgVG86IG1hYzRid3cgKEJy aWFuIFcuIFdoaXRzb24pXHBhciBEYXRlOiBUdWUsIDMxIEphbiA5NSAxNjo0Mzoz OSBFU1RccGFyIEZyb206IEFteSBELiBQZXRlcnNlayA8dGVkNGFkcD5ccGFyIFgt TWFpbGVyOiBFTE0tTUlNRSBbdmVyc2lvbiAxLjAgUEwwXVxwYXIgDQpccGFyIFxw YXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBc ZnMyMCBcY2YwIEZvcndhcmRlZCBtZXNzYWdlOlxwYXIgPkZyb20gZW5nNGRnYkBo aWJicy52Y3UuZWR1IFRodSBKYW4gMjYgMTM6NTc6MjQgMTk5NVxwYXIgTWVzc2Fn ZS1JZDogPDk1MDEyNjE4NTcuQUEyODc5NEBoaWJicy52Y3UuZWR1PlxwYXIgU3Vi amVjdDogRm9yd2FyZGVkIG1haWwuLi4uIChmd2QpXHBhciBUbzogdGVkNGFkcFxw YXIgRGF0ZTogVGh1LCAyNiBKYW4gOTUgMTM6NTc6MjIgRVNUXHBhciBGcm9tOiBE b25uYSBHLiBCcnlhbnQgPGVuZzRkZ2JAaGliYnMudmN1LmVkdT5ccGFyIFgtTWFp bGVyOiBFTE0tTUlNRSBbdmVyc2lvbiAxLjAgUEwwXVxwYXIgDQpccGFyIFxwYXJk IFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMy MCBcY2YwIEZvcndhcmRlZCBtZXNzYWdlOlxwYXIgPkZyb20gcmFydXN0QGhhbWxl dC51bmNnLmVkdSBUaHUgSmFuIDI2IDEyOjQwOjI0IDE5OTVccGFyIERhdGU6IFRo dSwgMjYgSmFuIDE5OTUgMTI6NDA6MTYgLTA1MDAgKEVTVClccGFyIEZyb206ICJS YWNoZWwgQS4gUnVzdCIgPHJhcnVzdEBoYW1sZXQudW5jZy5lZHU+XHBhciBYLVNl bmRlcjogcmFydXN0QGhhbWxldFxwYXIgVG86IERvbm5hIEJyeWFudCA8ZW5nNGRn Yj5ccGFyIENjOiBsYXJzb25AdHVyaW5nLnVuY2cuZWR1XHBhciBTdWJqZWN0OiBG b3J3YXJkZWQgbWFpbC4uLi4gKGZ3ZClccGFyIE1lc3NhZ2UtSWQ6IDxQaW5lLlNP TC4zLjkxLjk1MDEyNjEyMzkyOS4yMTgwMUYtMTAwMDAwQGhhbWxldD5ccGFyIE1p bWUtVmVyc2lvbjogMS4wXHBhciBDb250ZW50LVR5cGU6IFRFWFQvUExBSU47IGNo YXJzZXQ9VVMtQVNDSUlccGFyIA0KXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBc c2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAgXHNsMjQw IFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2Iw IFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0gRm9yd2FyZGVk IG1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS0tLVxwYXIgRGF0ZTogV2VkLCAyNSBKYW4gMTk5NSAx MzoyNzowNyAtMDUwMCAoRVNUKVxwYXIgRnJvbTogSkFNRVMgRC4gU1BST1VTRSA8 amRzcHJvdXNAaGFtbGV0LnVuY2cuZWR1PlxwYXIgVG86ICJSYWNoZWwgQS4gUnVz dCIgPHJhcnVzdEBoYW1sZXQudW5jZy5lZHU+XHBhciBTdWJqZWN0OiBGb3J3YXJk ZWQgbWFpbC4uLi4gKGZ3ZClccGFyIA0KXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJp MCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAgXHNs MjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBc c2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0gRm9yd2Fy ZGVkIG1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS0tLVxwYXIgRGF0ZTogTW9uLCAyMyBKYW4gMTk5 NSAxMzoyODozMCAtMDUwMCAoRVNUKVxwYXIgRnJvbTogSGVhdGhlciBBLiBXb3J0 aGluZ3RvbiA8aGF3b3J0aGlAaGFtbGV0LnVuY2cuZWR1PlxwYXIgVG86IGpkc3By b3VzQGhhbWxldC51bmNnLmVkdVxwYXIgU3ViamVjdDogRm9yd2FyZGVkIG1haWwu Li4uIChmd2QpXHBhciANClxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAgXHNsMjQw IFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2Iw IFxzYTAgXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2Ew IFxwbGFpbiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmMCAtLS0tLS0tLS0tIEZvcndhcmRlZCBtZXNz YWdlIC0tLS0tLS0tLS1ccGFyIERhdGU6IE1vbiwgMjMgSmFuIDE5OTUgMDA6MDc6 NDAgLTA1MDAgKEVTVClccGFyIEZyb206IEppbGwgUmVuZWUgU255ZGVyIDxqcnMx MkBhY3B1Yi5kdWtlLmVkdT5ccGFyIFRvOiBoZWF0aGVyIHdvcnRoaW5ndG9uIDxo YXdvcnRoaUBoYW1sZXQudW5jZy5lZHU+XHBhciBTdWJqZWN0OiBGb3J3YXJkZWQg bWFpbC4uLi4gKGZ3ZClccGFyIA0KXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBc c2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAgXHNsMjQw IFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2Iw IFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0gRm9yd2FyZGVk IG1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS0tLVxwYXIgRGF0ZTogU3VuLCAyMiBKYW4gMTk5NSAy MTozMjo0MCAtMDUwMCAoRVNUKVxwYXIgRnJvbTogU29uYWwgRGluZXNoIFRoZWtk aSA8c2R0MUBhY3B1Yi5kdWtlLmVkdT5ccGFyIFRvOiBNaWNoYWVsIEFkYW0gQm9s Y2ggPG1hYjhAYWNwdWIuZHVrZS5lZHU+XHBhciBDYzogSmlsbCBSZW5lZSBTbnlk ZXIgPGpyczEyQGFjcHViLmR1a2UuZWR1PlxwYXIgU3ViamVjdDogRm9yd2FyZGVk IG1haWwuLi4uIChmd2QpXHBhciANClxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAg XHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0 MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAgXHNi MCBcc2EwIFxwbGFpbiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmMCAtLS0tLS0tLS0tIEZvcndhcmRl ZCBtZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tLS0tLS1ccGFyIERhdGU6IFN1biwgMjIgSmFuIDE5OTUg MDA6MjM6MzAgLTA1MDAgKEVTVClccGFyIEZyb206IExpbmRzYXkgQnJvb2tlIFJl bm5lciA8bGJyMUBhY3B1Yi5kdWtlLmVkdT5ccGFyIFRvOiBTb25hbCBEaW5lc2gg VGhla2RpIDxzZHQxQGFjcHViLmR1a2UuZWR1PlxwYXIgU3ViamVjdDogRm9yd2Fy ZGVkIG1haWwuLi4uIChmd2QpXHBhciANClxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxy aTAgXHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxz bDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwIEhBIEhBIEhBISAg Tm93IHlvdSBoYXZlIGl0ISAgSSBIQVRFIGNoYWluIGxldHRlcnMsIGRvbid0IHlv dS4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIFxwYXIgdGhpcyBvbmUgaXMgZWFzaWVyIHRoYW4gbW9zdCBi ZWNhdXNlIHlvdSBvbmx5IGhhdmUgdG8gZm9yd2FyZCBpdCBpbnN0ZWFkIFxwYXIg b2YgbWFraW5nIGNvcGllcyBhbmQgc2VuZGluZyB0aGVtIHRocm91Z2ggdGhlIG1h aWwuICBTb3JyeSBhbnl3YXlzIVxwYXIgDQpccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBc cmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBc c2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwbGFpbiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmMCAtLS0tLS0tLS0t IEZvcndhcmRlZCBtZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tLS0tLS1ccGFyIERhdGU6IFRodSwgMTkg SmFuIDk1IDExOjMyOjM5IEVTVFxwYXIgRnJvbTogSmVubmlmZXIgTGVhIFJoYXdu IDxqbHI3eUBjdXJyeS5lZHNjaG9vbC52aXJnaW5pYS5lZHU+XHBhciBUbzogbGJy MUBhY3B1Yi5kdWtlLmVkdVxwYXIgQ2M6IGRhbmNhcEBhb2wuY29tXHBhciBTdWJq ZWN0OiBGb3J3YXJkZWQgbWFpbC4uLi4gKGZ3ZClccGFyIA0KXHBhciBccGFyZCBc bGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwbGFpbiBcZjEgXGZzMjAg XGNmMCBIaSEgIEknbSBvdXQgdG8gcGxhZ3VlIHlvdXIgbGlmZSBub3cuICBJIGhh dmVuJ3Qgc2VudCBhIGNoYWluXHBhciBtYWlsIGxldHRlciBpbiBhZ2VzLCBidXQg SSB0aG91Z2h0IHlvdSBtaWdodCBlbmpveSB0aGlzIVxwYXIgDQpccGFyIFxwYXJk IFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMy MCBcY2YwIEplbm4gUmhhd25ccGFyIA0KXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJp MCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwbGFpbiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmMCBBY2NvcmRp bmcgdG8gS3Jpc3RlbiBNYXJpZSBBbm9uaWNrOlxwYXIgPiBGcm9tIGttYTN4IFN1 biBOb3YgMTMgMTU6Mjg6MTkgMTk5NFxwYXIgPiBGcm9tOiBLcmlzdGVuIE1hcmll IEFub25pY2sgPGttYTN4PlxwYXIgPiBNZXNzYWdlLUlkOiA8MTk5NDExMTMyMDI4 LlBBQTQ1NzY2QGN1cnJ5LmVkc2Nob29sLlZpcmdpbmlhLkVEVT5ccGFyID4gU3Vi amVjdDogRm9yd2FyZGVkIG1haWwuLi4uIChmd2QpXHBhciA+IFRvOiBqbW0zdUBW aXJnaW5pYS5FRFUgKEp1bGlhIE1hY01pbGxhbilccGFyID4gRGF0ZTogU3VuLCAx MyBOb3YgOTQgMTU6Mjg6MTggRVNUXHBhciA+IENjOiBqbHI3eSAoSmVubmlmZXIg Umhhd24pXHBhciA+IFgtTWFpbGVyOiBFTE0gW3ZlcnNpb24gMi4zLjEgUEwxMV1c cGFyID4gXHBhciA+IEFjY29yZGluZyB0byBUZXJlc2EgTHlubiBEaXZlcnM6XHBh ciA+ID5Gcm9tIGRhZW1vbiBNb24gTm92ICA3IDE1OjEyOjQ5IDE5OTRccGFyID4g RnJvbTogVGVyZXNhIEx5bm4gRGl2ZXJzIDx0bGQ2aEBmZXJtaS5jbGFzLlZpcmdp bmlhLkVEVT5ccGFyID4gTWVzc2FnZS1JZDogPDE5OTQxMTA3MjAxMi5QQUExMTQ0 MzFAZmVybWkuY2xhcy5WaXJnaW5pYS5FRFU+XHBhciA+IFN1YmplY3Q6IEZvcndh cmRlZCBtYWlsLi4uLiAoZndkKVxwYXIgPiBUbzogdGRkMm5AY3VycnkuZWRzY2hv b2wuVmlyZ2luaWEuRURVIChUb2RkIERvdWdsYXMgRGl2ZXJzKVxwYXIgPiBEYXRl OiBNb24sIDcgTm92IDk0IDE1OjEyOjQ3IEVTVFxwYXIgPiBDYzoga21hM3hAY3Vy cnkuZWRzY2hvb2wuVmlyZ2luaWEuRURVIChLcmlzdGVuIE1hcmllIEFub25pY2sp LFxwYXIgPiAgICAgICAgIGJlbTJiQHV2YS5wY21haWwudmlyZ2luaWEuZWR1IChC cm9va2UgTWNNaW5uKSxccGFyID4gICAgICAgICBtamFsbGFyZEBtYWlsLnZ0LmVk dSAoSm9uYXRoYW4gTWFsbGFyZClccGFyID4gWC1NYWlsZXI6IFBFTkVMTSBbdmVy c2lvbiAyLjMuMSBQTDExXQ0KXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBcc2wy NDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwbGFpbiBcZjEgXGZzMjAgXGNmMCA+IFxwYXIgPiBBY2Nv cmRpbmcgdG8gVGhlb2RvcmEgTGlwcGl0dCBHb25nYXdhcmU6XHBhciA+ID5Gcm9t IGRhZW1vbiBNb24gTm92ICA3IDEzOjMxOjE0IDE5OTRccGFyID4gUmVzZW50LUZy b206ICJMZXNsaWUgRC4gRWR3YXJkcyIgPGxwZTh5QHV2YS5wY21haWwudmlyZ2lu aWEuZWR1PlxwYXIgPiBSZXNlbnQtRGF0ZTogTW9uLCA3IE5vdiA5NCAxMjo1Mzow NiBFU1RccGFyID4gWC1NYWlsZXI6IFVWYSBQQ01haWwgMS43LjFccGFyID4gUmVz ZW50LVRvOiB0bGQ2aEBmZXJtaS5jbGFzLnZpcmdpbmlhLmVkdVxwYXIgPiBSZXNl bnQtRGF0ZTogU2F0LCA1IE5vdiAxOTk0IDE1OjM4OjI1IC0wNTAwXHBhciA+IFJl c2VudC1Gcm9tOiBkam01YUB1dmEucGNtYWlsLnZpcmdpbmlhLmVkdVxwYXIgPiBS ZXNlbnQtTWVzc2FnZS1JZDogPDE5OTQxMTA1MjAzOC5QQUEwMjAxNEB1dmEucGNt YWlsLlZpcmdpbmlhLkVEVT5ccGFyID4gWC1NYWlsZXI6IE1haWwgVXNlcidzIFNo ZWxsICg3LjIuMyA1LzIyLzkxKVxwYXIgPiBSZXNlbnQtVG86IGxwZTh5QHV2YS5w Y21haWwudmlyZ2luaWEuZWR1XHBhciA+IERhdGU6IFRodSwgMyBOb3YgMTk5NCAx NzoyMzo0MSAtMDUwMCAoRVNUKVxwYXIgPiBGcm9tOiBUaGVvZG9yYSBMaXBwaXR0 IEdvbmdhd2FyZSA8dGhlb2RvcmFAcGhvZW5peC5wcmluY2V0b24uZWR1PlxwYXIg PiBUbzogZGptNWFAdmlyZ2luaWEuZWR1XHBhciA+IFN1YmplY3Q6IEZvcndhcmRl ZCBtYWlsLi4uLiAoZndkKVxwYXIgPiBNZXNzYWdlLUlkOiA8UGluZS5TVU4uMy45 MC45NDExMDMxNzIzMTYuMTc4NzBVLTEwMDAwMEBwaG9lbml4LlByaW5jZXRvbi5F RFU+XHBhciA+IE1pbWUtVmVyc2lvbjogMS4wXHBhciA+IENvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTog VEVYVC9QTEFJTjsgY2hhcnNldD1VUy1BU0NJSVxwYXIgPiBccGFyID4gXHBhciA+ IFxwYXIgPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tIEZvcndhcmRlZCBtZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0N ClxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAgXHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGxh aW4gXGYxIFxmczIwIFxjZjAgPiBEYXRlOiBTdW4sIDMwIE9jdCAxOTk0IDAwOjAw OjE4IC0wNDAwIChFRFQpXHBhciA+IEZyb206IEFsbHlzb24gQ2hhcmkgR29sZHN0 ZWluIDxhbGx5c29uZ0BwaG9lbml4PlxwYXIgPiBUbzogdGhlb2RvcmFAcHJpbmNl dG9uLmVkdVxwYXIgPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBGb3J3YXJkZWQgbWFpbC4uLi5ccGFyID4g XHBhciA+IFxwYXIgPiBccGFyID4gLS0tLS0tLS0tLSBGb3J3YXJkZWQgbWVzc2Fn ZSAtLS0tLS0tLS0tXHBhciA+IERhdGU6IFRodSwgMjcgT2N0IDE5OTQgMTg6MDg6 MTEgLTA1MDBccGFyID4gRnJvbTogRWxpc3NhIE0uIEJsdW0gPGVtYmx1bUBhZmFy Lm1lZC5jb3JuZWxsLmVkdT5ccGFyID4gVG86IGFsbHlzb25nQFByaW5jZXRvbi5F RFVccGFyID4gXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+XHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PlxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4g ICAgICAgICBcXFxcXFx8fHwvLy8gICAgICAgICAgICAgICBcXFxcXFx8fHwvLy8g ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgXFxcXFxcfHx8Ly8vXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiAgICAgICAu ICA9PT09PT09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAuICA9PT09PT09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg LiAgPT09PT09PVxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gICAgICAvIFxcfCBPICAgTyB8ICAgICAg ICAgICAgLyBcXHwgTyAgIE8gfCAgICAgICAgICAgICAvIFxcfCBPICAgTyB8XHBh ciA+ID4+PiA+PiAgICAgIFxcIC8gIFxcdl8nLyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgXFwgLyAg XFx2XycvICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgXFwgLyAgXFx2XycvXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiAg ICAgICAjICAgX3wgfF8gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAjICAgX3wgfF8gICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIyAgIF98IHxfXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiAgICAgICgjKSAoICAgICApICAg ICAgICAgICAgICgjKSAoICAgICApICAgICAgICAgICAgICAoIykgKCAgICAgKVxw YXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gICAgICAgI1xcLy98KiAqfFxcXFwgICAgICAgICAgICAgI1xc Ly98KiAqfFxcXFwgICAgICAgICAgICAgICNcXC8vfCogKnxcXFxcDQpccGFyIFxw YXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBc ZnMyMCBcY2YwID4gPj4+ID4+ICAgICAgICNcXC8oICAqICApLyAgICAgICAgICAg ICAjXFwvKCAgKiAgKS8gICAgICAgICAgICAgICNcXC8oICAqICApL1xwYXIgPiA+ Pj4gPj4gICAgICAgIyAgID09PT09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIyAgID09PT09ICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICMgICA9PT09PVxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gICAgICAgIyAgIChc XCAvKSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICMgICAoXFwgLykgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIyAg IChcXCAvKVxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gICAgICAgIyAgIHx8IHx8ICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIyAgIHx8IHx8ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICMgICB8fCB8fFxwYXIgPiA+Pj4g Pj4gICAgICAuIy0tLSd8IHwtLS0tLiAgICAgICAgICAuIy0tLSd8IHwtLS0tLiAg ICAgICAgICAgLiMtLS0nfCB8LS0tLS5ccGFyID4gPj4+ID4+ICAgICAgICMtLS0t JyAtLS0tLScgICAgICAgICAgICMtLS0tJyAtLS0tLScgICAgICAgICAgICAjLS0t LScgLS0tLS0nXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PlxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdl IGhhcyBiZWVuIHNlbnQgdG8geW91IGZvciBnb29kIGx1Y2suIFRoZSBvcmlnaW5h bFxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gaXMgaW4gTmV3IEVuZ2xhbmQuICBJdCBoYXMgYmVlbiBz ZW50IGFyb3VuZCB0aGUgd29ybGQgbmluZSB0aW1lcy4gVGhlXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+ PiBsdWNrIGhhcyBub3cgYmVlbiBzZW50IHRvIHlvdS5Zb3Ugd2lsbCByZWNlaXZl IGdvb2QgbHVjayB3aXRoaW4gZm91clxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gZGF5cyBvZiByZWNl aXZpbmcgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIC0gUHJvdmlkZWQgeW91LCBpbiB0dXJuIHNlbmQg aXQgb24uXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiBUaGlzIGlzIG5vIGpva2UuIFlvdSB3aWxsIHJl Y2VpdmUgZ29vZCBsdWNrIGluIHRoZSBtYWlsLiBCdXQgbm9ccGFyID4gPj4+ID4+ IG1vbmV5LlxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gU2VuZCBjb3BpZXMgdG8gcGVvcGxlIHlvdSB0 aGluayBuZWVkIGdvb2QgbHVjay4gRG9uJ3Qgc2VuZCBtb25leSBhcw0KXHBhciBc cGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwbGFpbiBcZjEg XGZzMjAgXGNmMCA+ID4+PiA+PiBmYXRlIGhhcyBubyBwcmljZS5EbyBub3Qga2Vl cCB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UuIFRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBtdXN0IGxlYXZlXHBhciA+ID4+ PiA+PiB5b3VyIGhhbmRzIGluIDk2IGhvdXJzLlxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gQSBVbml0 ZWQgU3RhdGVzIEFpciBGb3JjZSBPZmZpY2VyIHJlY2VpdmVkIDQ3MCwwMDAgRG9s bGFycy5ccGFyID4gPj4+ID4+IEFub3RoZXIgTWFuIHJlY2VpdmVkIDQwLDAwMCBE b2xsYXJzIGFuZCBsb3N0IGl0IGJlY2F1c2UgaGUgYnJva2UgdGhlXHBhciA+ID4+ PiA+PiBjaGFpbi5ccGFyID4gPj4+ID4+IFdoZXJlYXMgaW4gdGhlIFBoaWxpcHBp bmVzLCBHZW5lIFdlbGNoIGxvc3QgaGlzIHdpZmUgNTEgZGF5cyBhZnRlclxwYXIg PiA+Pj4gPj4gcmVjZWl2aW5nIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlLiBIZSBmYWlsZWQgdG8gY2ly Y3VsYXRlIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlLiBIb3dldmVyLFxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gYmVmb3Jl IGhpcyBkZWF0aCwgaGUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgNyw1NTUsMDAwIGRvbGxhcnMuXHBhciA+ ID4+PiA+PiBQbGVhc2Ugc2VuZCB0d2VudHkgY29waWVzIGFuZCBzZWUgd2hhdCBo YXBwZW4gaW4gZm91ciBkYXlzLlxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gVGhlIGNoYWluIGNvbWVz IGZyb20gVmVuZXp1ZWxhIGFuZCBoYXMgd3JpdHRlbiBieSBTYXVsIERlIEdyb2Rh LFxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gQSBNaXNzaW9uYXJ5IGZyb20gU291dGggQW1lcmljYS4g U2luY2UgdGhlIGNvcHkgbXVzdCB0b3VyXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiB0aGUgd29ybGQs IHlvdSBtdXN0IG1ha2UgdHdlbnR5IGNvcGllcyBhbmQgc2VuZCB0aGVtIHRvIGZy aWVuZHMgYW5kXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiBhc3NvY2lhdGVzIC0gQWZ0ZXIgYSBmZXcg ZGF5cyB5b3Ugd2lsbCBnZXQgYSBzdXJwcmlzZVxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gVGhpcyBp cyB0cnVlLCBldmVuIGlmIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHN1cGVyc3RpdGlvdXMuXHBhciA+ ID4+PiA+PiBEbyBub3QgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZzogQ29uc3RhbnRpbmUgRGlhcyBy ZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIGNoYWluIGluIDE5NTguDQpccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZp MCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwID4g Pj4+ID4+IEhlIGFza2VkIGhpcyBzZWNyZXRhcnkgdG8gbWFrZSB0d2VudHkgY29w aWVzIGFuZCBzZW5kIHRoZW0gb3V0LiBBIGZld1xwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gZGF5cyBs YXRlciBoZSB3b24gYSBsb3R0ZXJ5IG9mIHR3byBtaWxsaW9uIGRvbGxhcnMuIENh cmxvcyBEYWRpdHQsIGFuXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiBvZmZpY2UgZW1wbG95ZWUsIHJl Y2VpdmVkIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBmb3Jnb3QgdGhhdCBpdCBoYWQgdG8gbGVh dmUgaGlzXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiBoYW5kcyBpbiA5NiBob3Vycy5IZSBsb3N0IGhp cyBqb2IuXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiBMYXRlciwgYWZ0ZXIgZmluZGluZyB0aGF0IG1l c3NhZ2UgYWdhaW4sIEhlIG1haWxlZCB0d2VudHljb3BpZXMuIEFccGFyID4gPj4+ ID4+IGZldyBkYXlzIGxhdGVyIGhlIGdvdCBhIGJldHRlciBqb2IuICBEYWxhbiBG YWlyY2hpbGQgcmVjZWdlXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiBhbmQsIG5vdCBiZWxpZXZpbmcg LSBUaHJldyB0aGUgbWVzc2FnZSBhd2F5LiBOaW5lIGRheXMgbGF0ZXIgaGUgZGll ZC5ccGFyID4gPj4+ID4+IEluIDE5ODcsIFRoZSBtZXNzYWdlIHJlY2VpdmVkIGJ5 IGEgeW91bmcgd29tYW4gaW4gQ2FsaWZvcm5pYVxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gd2FzIHZl cnkgZmFkZWQgYW5kIGJhcmVseSByZWFkYWJsZS4gU2hlIHByb21pc2VkIGhlcnNl bGYgdGhhdCBzaGVccGFyID4gPj4+ID4+IHdvdWxkIHJldHlwZSB0aGUgbWVzc2Fn ZSBhbmQgc2VuZCBpdCBvbiwgQnV0IHNoZSB0IGxlYXZlIGhlciBoYW5kcyB3aXRo aW5ccGFyID4gPj4+OTZccGFyID4gPj4+ID4+aG91cnMuIFNoZSBmaW5hbGx5IHR5 cGVkXHBhciA+ID4+PiA+PiB0aGUgbGV0dGVyIGFzIHByb21pc2VkIGFuZCBnb3Qg YSBuZXcgY2FyLlxwYXIgPiA+Pj4gPj4gR29vZCBMdWNrIGJ1dCBwbGVhc2UgcmVt ZW1iZXI6IDIwIGNvcGllcyBvZiB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgbXVzdCBsZWF2ZVxwYXIg PiA+Pj4gPj4geW91ciBoYW5kcyBpbiAgOTYgaG91cnMuLi4gWW91IG11c3Qgbm90 IHNpZ24gb24gdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlLi4uDQpccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBc cmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBsYWluIFxmMSBcZnMyMCBcY2YwID4gXHBh ciA+IFxwYXIgPiBccGFyID4gXHBhciA+IFxwYXIgPiBccGFyID4gXHBhciA+IFxw YXIgPiBccGFyIA0KXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAgXHNi MCBcc2EwIFxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAgXHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNh MCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBh ciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwYXIgXHBh cmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxyaTAgXHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxs aTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxzbDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxm aTAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAgXHNiMCBcc2EwIFxwYXIgXHBhcmQgXGxpMCBcZmkwIFxy aTAgXHNsMjQwIFxzYjAgXHNhMCBccGFyIFxwYXJkIFxsaTAgXGZpMCBccmkwIFxz bDI0MCBcc2IwIFxzYTAgXHBhciBccGFyZCBcbGkwIFxmaTAgXHJpMCBcc2wyNDAg XHNiMCBcc2EwIH0A ---- alternate ------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 20:33:44 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Levine Subject: FULLER WRITES RE: VEGETARIANISM (1938) I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE VEGETARIANISM THREAD. R. Buckminster Fuller, the Buckyball-meister himself, speaks in his own printed words words that he so carefully used to say what he meant: FROM NINE CHAINS TO THE MOON: (For those who haven't read this magnificent early work (first printed in the 30's!), it ends in a fantastic dialog between an early radio hobbyist, named Jones, and the "materialized" X-ian. Jones, it seems, was experimenting with HYPER SHORT WAVE RADIO, and somehow his receiver, using his newly invented "sound and light sensitive cells, received more than was expected! FULLER WRITES... "On the evening of June 27, 1937 Jones was testing on his latest one tube set..." RICK LEVINE WRITES: And there is an explosion. And the X-ian appears. THE X-IAN IS: "from Planet 80XK23 in trapezoidal segment 727831 of the star layer of the expanding universe. 80XK23 is one of 100 planets of one of 40 billion star-groups in our spiral nebula..." *** *** AMONGST MANY THINGS, THE X-IAN SAYS... *** *** "... Being vegetarian, we have escaped the predatory, hoarding and property proclivities..." >From <> (1938) Chapter 41, "Jones and the X-ian" ^ ^^ Respectfully shared. ^ * * ^ * ^^ * * ^^^^^ * ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <<<< >>>>> <<<< M E R L Y N >>>>>>>>>>>> <<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<< of REDMOND, WA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <>Rick Levine 1995<> <><><><><><><><><><> <> .peace on you. <> <><><><><><><><><><> <> <><><><><><> <> <><><><><><><><><><> rlevine@halcyon.com <><><><><><><><><><> -------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 05:46:16 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Subject: Re: NONDELIVERIES > So like all good democracies, our listserv environment seems to have > self-policed itself into some (unfortunately, probably only temporary) > heaven :) > Christopher J. Fearnley Congrats on doing list owner stuff without an active list owner. Glad to here the Cromer problem seems to be fixed, and DANNTES in Korea might be delivered from his listserv hell. Kirby Lurker ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 00:43:50 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dan Tremitiere Organization: Gateway Communications Inc. Subject: Re: Manhattan dome Just a practical question regarding the NYC dome-over: How, if this plan were carried out, would one keep snow off in the winter? Just wondering, Dan ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Tremitiere dantrem@gatecom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "...I mean, even Cream of Wheat has lumps..." -Now You Know Merrily We Roll Along Music and Lyrics by Stephen Sondheim ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 15:20:07 -0500 Reply-To: TlineDomes Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: TlineDomes Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Free Dome Information As a leading manufacturer and designer of geodesic domes, we would be happy to provide information on the subject. We will monitor this area periodically and offer answers when we can. If you would like, please feel free to e-mail questions directly. If you would like some free information, please e-mail your name and address to us. We will be happy to send a full color brochure. Our detailed information is in a $12 color catalog package. Please feel free to contact us with any questions regarding dome living. We will be happy to do what we can. Timberline Geodesics TLineDomes@aol.com Timberline Geodesics Designing and manufacturing geodesic TLineDomes@aol.com domes since 1969. 1-800-DOME-HOME Explore The Great Indoors! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 20:46:23 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marcia Blackburn Bertland Subject: Re: RE_Fuller_and_Utopia X-To: Rodrigo de Almeida Siqueira In-Reply-To: <199502021550.KAA07300@bingnfs1.cc.binghamton.edu> > > while visual utopias are not in themselves utopian, but are rather > > Ideal Cities which could, in turn, serve as the base for a utopian > community. > If these definitions are to be accepted, then I believe > Fuller's work > > falls into the Ideal City scheme. "If you build it, they will come." > > > > - Marcia > > This reminds me the capital of Brazil: Brasilia. > Brasilia is a planned city to be Ideal and political, in about 1950, planned > by Oscar Niemeyer, a famous architect here. > Its architecture is based on a "Pilot Plan" (because it is simmilar to the > plant of an airplane). > Around the axes are the Super Blocks. Each Super Block has its own school > and it's own commerce street and usually four big buildings where people > live. But usually people who live in one Super Block do not study in their > own Super Block, because many Super Blocks bacame very specialized. > > Usually what people says is that Brasilia was not made for human scale. > Not for human beings, because things there are very huge. There difficult > to cross the streets (everything planned to have few light signals for cars) > and to walk there. The city is at the same time astonishing - wonderful and > overwhelming. > > ------------ > Rodrigo de Almeida Siqueira > Webmaster at University of Sao Paulo, Brazil. > e-mail: rodrigo@lsi.usp.br Yes, I am familiar with the plan of Brasilia. It was heavily influenced by Le Corbusier's Ville Radieuse - another Ideal City plan. Corbu was a consultant on the plan. But I believe Fuller would have rejected such monumentality in architecture. Even though his Tetrahedron City or Manhattan Dome are of "monumental" size, they are of such size to fill a purpose based on science, not to enhance authority. Does anyone - like our resident bibliographer Joe Moore - have citations where Fuller talks about other architecture; not just the woes of vernacular architecture, but commentary on major buildings? - Marcia Blackburn Bertland bd81064@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 21:39:56 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Walt Lockley Subject: Re: Manhattan dome Dan Tremiteiere wrote: >Just a practical question regarding the NYC dome-over: >How, if this plan were carried out, would one keep snow off in the winter? >Just wondering, >Dan The original proposal calls for the dome to have electrical wiring imbedded in it which would create enough heat to melt snow during storm. In terms of weight, ice is much more of a load, but of course snow would block sunlight. The snow and rain are supposed to accumulate "into a canal around the dome's lower rim from whence it would flow to great collection reservoirs." This rain collection is a great potential side-benefit of the dome, since according to New York State statistics, only 7% of New York City gets 'acceptable' water supply. I don't know how 'acceptable' is defined, but I know that under some circumstances the city gets water from 300 miles away, and rights to water has been a bone of contention between city and state for some time. Walt ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 07:04:07 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Netaxs Internet BBS and Shell Accounts Subject: GEODESIC Readership Statistics I culled this info from the "USENET Readership report for Jan 95" posted recently to news.lists. See that newsgroups for a fuller explanation of how the statistics were gathered &etc. \begin{quote} Brian Reid reid@pa.dec.com OVERALL SUMMARY: This Estimated Sample for entire net Sites: 453 260000 Fraction reporting: 0.17% 100% Users with accounts: 190664 47579000 Netreaders: 66123 16500000 Average readers per site: 146 Percent of users who are netreaders: 34.68% Average traffic per day (megabytes): 242.204 Average traffic per day (messages): 84719 Traffic measurement interval: last 28 days Readership measurement interval: last 75 days Sites used to measure propagation: 453 [...] This is the full set of data from the USENET readership report for Jan 95. Explanations of the figures are in a companion posting. +-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide. | +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population | | +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all | | | +-- Recent traffic (messages per month) | | | | +-- Recent traffic (megabytes per month) | | | | | +-- Crossposting percentage | | | | | | +-- Cost ratio: $US/month/rdr | | | | | | | +-- Share: % of newsrders | | | | | | | | who read this group. V V V V V V V V 11300000 6100 92% 20 0.3 21% 0.00 9.2% news.announce.newuser 4 430000 2168 88% 1872 0.5 99% 0.00 3.3% news.answers 38 180000 1027 76% 115 0.4 4% 0.00 1.6% comp.os.linux.announc 1376 28000 290 42% 7 0.1 14% 0.00 0.4% comp.os.linux.answers 2579 7900 91 38% 292 0.9 0% 0.05 0.1% bit.listserv.geodesic 3180 1400 67 9% 120 0.0 87% 0.00 0.1% clari.news.education. \end{quote} I hope this helps satisfies everyones curiosity! -- Christopher J. Fearnley | UNIX SIG Leader at PACS cjf@netaxs.com | (Philadelphia Area Computer Society) fearnlcj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu | Design Science Revolutionary cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us | Explorer in Universe 503 S 44th ST | Linux Advocate Philadelphia PA 19104-3907 | (215)349-9681 finger me at cjf@netaxs.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 13:28:37 LOCAL Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Homelands I've lurked discussions of Fuller vis-a-vis tribal/cultural homelands question. A sweep of my mental archives pulls up the following: 1. proposals to repatriate museaum artifacts to sites closer to their origins, e.g. recreate ancient Greece using artifacts in the British museum. Similar to indigenous North American efforts to get stuff back from the Smithsonian. 2. general sense that the nation-state model was on the way out. But that doesn't gut the notion of focal points for cultural traditions (e.g. as per #1). History will not erase itself, nor should we wish it to. My own addition: What I like about the corporate model is that huge estates. physical plant, and resources, and high living standards for many, alongwith a "corporate culture" including in-house language, governance, flag-like logos and other "sovereign" symbols, go with a topology that is at once global, but not continuous in the nation-state sense. Corporations interpenetrate, can be blocks apart, and not war over turf. I think nations can keep their "look and feel", and ties to certain geographies, but without necessarily policing continuous boarders. I dream, I know, but a good one I think. Kirby Urner ------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Portland (PDX), Oregon pdx4d@teleport.com Web: Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Critical Path Anyone out there remember when _Critical Path_ came out back in '81? I started reading it this weekend and am curious as to what the initial reactions were when the book came out. And as to people's opinions on this "design science revolution" that was supposed to begin six years ago; apparently it was my post-Moon-lander Generation X that was to "command and execute" this revolution. One thing he said was that the vcr would be the new form of interactive education; I'd say that he was off a little, that the net is doing *right now* exactly what he said videotapes would do. This is really a separate thread altogether, but -- Also anyone have any comments on his opposite-of-Darwin theories of evolution? I find it fascinating and worth exploration, but came across (on page eight, no less) what was to me the most "far-out" thing of his that I read: "We can comprehend how South Sea-atoll, lagoon frolicking male and female human swimmers gradually inbred pairs of underwater swimmers who held their breath in their lungs for ever-longer periods, and after many inbreedings of largest lungers and as many outbreedings of general adaptability organic equipment, the progency evolved into poroises and later into whales." Taking this literally is to me more far-out than his theories that DNA-RNA was 'landed' on the planet (which I could see). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 21:38:32 EST Reply-To: dkap@vax.ftp.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "A Page in the Life of ..." Subject: Manhattan Dome In-Reply-To: "Harry 'BadDog' Hammond"'s message of Mon, 30 Jan 1995 11:44:09 EST <199501310019.TAA23696@cs.brandeis.edu> Caveat, I am behind in my mail, so, if anyone else has said the same, mei culpa ... Why would you want to dome-up a city anyway? Is this to escape the deteriorating environment of our planet? "...to hell with the ozone - let's go inside..." The only reason I can see to dome over Manhattan would be to protect the rest of the world from _the_sewer_that_never_sleeps_. Umm, snow, sleet, hail, rain and other precipitation comming in, and some way to perhaps filter or at least cut down on the exhume of human living (heat and CO2 are the inescapable ones ...) I see many potential uses for the geodesic dome (most of which I've learned about since joining this list), but I strongly disagree with the idea of spending one's life indoors. Look what happended in Biosphere. Not "indoors" (and comparing it to biosphere is a waste ... the model they had threw just about everything into an area smaller than even a few of them are willing to exist within, and then only throwing in enough CO2 generators for a few of the indigents? And only 7 people? That will make things go stale quite fast.) but sheltered. One can leave at will, and one must abandon one's major polutants at the door (hopefully). And a second reason. Space. The problem of designing a massively tall building is the support of it and how not to let it be blown over in the wind. Support now can partially come from the underside of the dome, and, well the wind (if there is any) would be a constant rather than a variable. Of course this might also increase the street sleepers, due to the more hospitible enviornment, but it also would make a large number of jobs where people most complain and are most willing to help. Their homes, their "hood". "What doesn't kill you, will make you stronger" Why do you think it will kill you? It might, if nothing else, make us weaker, due to the lessening of fighting with the elements. And it might even help the elements to begin to recover ... think of the forced srubbing of the air/water that would be recycled through the dome? If done correctly, we would be taking a chunk of poisons out of the air for each city so covered. What chance would a child raised in an enclosed environement have at surviving later in life outside of this artificial womb. Again, I disagree that it would be entirely "closed" mostly because business doesn't work that way. It would just be a city with the equivelant of all the buildings interconnected. Maybe instead of trying to find a way to build a dome over a city, we should direct our attention towards making sure we will never have to dome over a city. Again, "have to" is based on all sorts of factors. Cubic is cheaper than flat space. Realestate is the one comodity that we just _can't_ make more of on our planet's survace without pushing some things to their limits. Instead of letting a city (say ottawa) begin to sprall, use that outside land for grazing, build ottawa into a volume instead of a surface, and refrain from cutting down that much more of the Rain Forests. Save us from mining more into the grounds and use the outer skin for power generation (a whole bunch of solar/wind driven (or perhaps even thermic, due to the waste heat of the inhabitants) energy generators on a large section of acerage that just didn't exist before. Don't just limit it, look at the applications and ramafications of the space and functions. Dave K. -- I will not instigate revolution - Bart Simpson punishment line ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 19:58:56 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: BUCKY'S CITY PROJECTS BUCKMINSTER FULLER AND CITIES DATE TITLE OF ARTICLE OR BOOK SOURCE PAGES PROJECT 01-01-68 "City of the Future" Playboy 166-168 TET CITY 01-01-68 "Why Not Roofs Over Our Cities?" Think mag 008-011 NYC DOME 11-28-68 Study of Prototype Floating Community RBFuller _______ TRITON 12-31-68 "Smokeless, Noiseless, Trafficless City" N.Y.Times ___?___ NYC DOME 02-01-69 "Buckminster Fuller's Floating City" Futurist ___?___ TET CITY 00-00-70 00-00-71 01-01-72 "The World of Buckminster Fuller" Arch.Forum 089 HARLEM 01-01-72 "The World of Buckminster Fuller" Arch.Forum 090 OLD MAN 01-01-72 "The World of Buckminster Fuller" Arch.Forum 091 TORONTO 01-01-72 "The World of Buckminster Fuller" Arch.Forum 092-93 TET CITY 01-01-72 "The World of Buckminster Fuller" Arch.Forum 094-95 TRITON 05-14-72 "East St.Louis: Urban Bankruptcy" N.Y.Times ___?___ OLD MAN 12-19-72 "Floating Cities" World mag ___?___ TET CITY 12-27-72 Old Man River:An Environmental Domed City RBFuller _______ OLD MAN 01-02-73 "Old Man River" World mag ___?___ OLD MAN 04-01-73 "Buckminster Fuller on Cities" American Way _?__ CITIES 06-01-73 Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller Marks/RBF 231 TRITON 06-01-73 Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller Marks/RBF 232-233 TET CITY 06-01-73 Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller Marks/RBF 169,234 NYC DOME 06-01-73 Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller Marks/RBF 235 CLOUD 9 06-01-74 Buckminster Fuller at Home in the Universe Hatch 230-231 NYC DOME 06-01-74 Buckminster Fuller at Home in the Universe Hatch 232-233 TET CITY 06-01-74 Buckminster Fuller at Home in the Universe Hatch 233 TRITON 06-20-75 "Not Too Distant Cities in Gulf Seen" States-Item __?__ TET CITY 08-01-75 "Men Will Live in Sea Cities,Aquatect Says"State Times _?__ TET CITY 00-00-76 00-00-77 00-00-78 10-01-79 "Old Man River" Dichotomy ___?___ OLD MAN 04-05-80 "Tenting the World" Sci.News ___?___ DOME 04-01-81 Critical Path RBFuller 315-323 OLD MAN 04-01-81 Critical Path RBFuller 332-335 TRITON 04-01-81 Critical Path RBFuller 336-337 CLOUD 9 00-00-82 00-00-83 00-00-84 00-00-85 00-00-86 00-00-87 11-01-88 "Water Works" Pop.Sci. 074-075 OCEAN 00-00-89 06-01-90 Buckminster Fuller Pawley 049-052 NYC DOME 06-01-90 Buckminster Fuller Pawley 155-157 CLOUD 9 06-01-90 Buckminster Fuller Pawley 156-158 HARLEM 06-01-90 Buckminster Fuller Pawley 157-159 TET CITY 06-01-90 Buckminster Fuller Pawley 159-161 TRITON 06-01-90 Buckminster Fuller Pawley 162-164 OLD MAN 07-01-91 "Emerald City" Pop.Sci. 020 TET CITY 03-01-92 "City in the Sea" Pop.Sci. ___?___ SEA DOME 09-01-93 "Ocean City" Pop.Sci. 015 SEA DOME -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 07:53:23 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Netaxs Internet BBS and Shell Accounts Subject: Re: Hanging Storage Shelf Unit Michael Stutz (stutz@RS6000.BALDWINW.EDU) wrote: > This post relates to Fuller's last patent (US Patent 4,377,114) -- for a > "Hanging Storage Shelf Unit." (yeeks -- can you tell I've been reading > patents all day?) > Has anyone ever seen one of these, or know of a place that sells/manufactures > them? I'm interested in them but I'd rather not build it myself if there > are some already out there. I saw one at the Bard College exhibit back in 1990. It's pretty neat and with the omnidirectional wires stabilizing it, it seemed sturdy though gossamer. Anyway the exhibit either moved or went into mothballs. I haven't heard of any manufacturers. -- Christopher J. Fearnley | UNIX SIG Leader at PACS cjf@netaxs.com | (Philadelphia Area Computer Society) fearnlcj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu | Design Science Revolutionary cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us | Explorer in Universe 503 S 44th ST | Linux Advocate Philadelphia PA 19104-3907 | (215)349-9681 finger me at cjf@netaxs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:01:15 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Netaxs Internet BBS and Shell Accounts Subject: The DS Revolution and the "final exam" (Was: Re: Critical Path) Michael Stutz (stutz@RS6000.BALDWINW.EDU) wrote: > Anyone out there remember when _Critical Path_ came out back in '81? > I started reading it this weekend and am curious as to what the > initial reactions were when the book came out. And as to people's > opinions on this "design science revolution" that was supposed to > begin six years ago; apparently it was my post-Moon-lander Generation > X that was to "command and execute" this revolution. One thing he > said was that the vcr would be the new form of interactive education; > I'd say that he was off a little, that the net is doing *right now* > exactly what he said videotapes would do. The design science revolution began as scheduled six years ago. It's already over. How does Utopia feel! Seriously though it does seem that humanity has passed its final exams, but we have even greater challenges before us now (as predicted). At any point we could "get behind" in our efforts and persue the path toward oblivion again. -- Christopher J. Fearnley | UNIX SIG Leader at PACS cjf@netaxs.com | (Philadelphia Area Computer Society) fearnlcj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu | Design Science Revolutionary cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us | Explorer in Universe 503 S 44th ST | Linux Advocate Philadelphia PA 19104-3907 | (215)349-9681 finger me at cjf@netaxs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 04:41:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Karl Erickson Subject: Darwin (was Critical Path) In-Reply-To: <199502072034.MAA23087@netcom23.netcom.com> from "Michael Stutz" at Feb 7, 95 01:12:09 pm > Also anyone have any comments on his opposite-of-Darwin theories of > evolution? I find it fascinating and worth exploration, but came > across (on page eight, no less) what was to me the most "far-out" > thing of his that I read: "We can comprehend how South Sea-atoll, > lagoon frolicking male and female human swimmers gradually inbred > pairs of underwater swimmers who held their breath in their lungs for > ever-longer periods, and after many inbreedings of largest lungers and > as many outbreedings of general adaptability organic equipment, the > progency evolved into poroises and later into whales." Taking this > literally is to me more far-out than his theories that DNA-RNA was > 'landed' on the planet (which I could see). > i had read elsewhere that dolphins, etc. had been land animals that had returned to water, which is why they are mammal and not fish. however, saying these land animals were human seems a bit strange. proto-human, to be sure, but exactly how far along? can't a a lizard (or something) manage the same act? also, could you refresh me re: dna landing on earth and bucky's opposite-of-darwinism? crit path page numbers welcome. for the latter, are you referring to the idea of humans first appearing in the south-sea-atolls as opposed to africa? -k. erixon - setebos@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:30:09 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: ; from "Michael Stutz" at Feb 7, 95 1:12 pm Michael Stutz writes: > > Anyone out there remember when _Critical Path_ came out back in '81? > I started reading it this weekend and am curious as to what the > initial reactions were when the book came out. And as to people's > opinions on this "design science revolution" that was supposed to > begin six years ago; apparently it was my post-Moon-lander Generation > X that was to "command and execute" this revolution. One thing he > said was that the vcr would be the new form of interactive education; > I'd say that he was off a little, that the net is doing *right now* > exactly what he said videotapes would do. Critical Path came out in the "Spring" (Apr-Jun) of 1981. > > This is really a separate thread altogether, but -- > > Also anyone have any comments on his opposite-of-Darwin theories of > evolution? I find it fascinating and worth exploration, but came > across (on page eight, no less) what was to me the most "far-out" > thing of his that I read: "We can comprehend how South Sea-atoll, > lagoon frolicking male and female human swimmers gradually inbred > pairs of underwater swimmers who held their breath in their lungs for > ever-longer periods, and after many inbreedings of largest lungers and > as many outbreedings of general adaptability organic equipment, the > progency evolved into poroises and later into whales." Taking this > literally is to me more far-out than his theories that DNA-RNA was > 'landed' on the planet (which I could see). > .- > I think reverse evolution is possible--it makes sense to me. I think the same thing happened to the monkies. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:42:38 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Hanging Storage Shelf Unit In-Reply-To: ; from "Michael Stutz" at Feb 7, 95 12:58 pm Michael Stutz writes: > > This post relates to Fuller's last patent (US Patent 4,377,114) -- for a > "Hanging Storage Shelf Unit." (yeeks -- can you tell I've been reading > patents all day?) > > Has anyone ever seen one of these, or know of a place that sells/manufactures > them? I'm interested in them but I'd rather not build it myself if there > are some already out there. > > Thanks. > .- > Back in '83 a company called THONET used to sell the bookshelf and two types of posters. I don't know if they are still in business. Their address was: THONET Box 1587, Dept PM 491 East Princess St. York, PA 17405 They sold the bookshelf for $870, the metal poster for $100, and the paper poster for $10. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 12:15:51 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: Darwin (was Critical Path) >i had read elsewhere that dolphins, etc. had been land animals that >had returned to water, which is why they are mammal and not fish. > >however, saying these land animals were human seems a bit strange. Right. Anything's possible, I suppose, but it sounds strange. >also, could you refresh me re: dna landing on earth and bucky's >opposite-of-darwinism? > >crit path page numbers welcome. Okay-- just about the entire first chapter deals with this stuff; the section explicitly talking about evolution begins on pg 6 (by "opposite-of-Darwinism" I mean that, while Darwin a "survival of the fittest" where the best of the crop breed with the best of the crop to produce a new better crop and so on evolving down the line, Fuller believed that the reverse would happen: breeding specialized "best-of"s would produce good specialists who lost their general adaptability); the dna coding telescanned & landed on pg 8 (first full paragraph, where he mentions that it could be possible that the trilobites & dinosaurs could've been "test landings" for humans). m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 09:37:01 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: CRITICISM OF OTHER ARCHITECTURE For Bucky's views of other architectural styles see: 'Ideas and Integrities', pages 29-33. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 14:40:43 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harry 'BadDog' Hammond Subject: Re: Manhattan Dome > Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 21:38:32 EST > From: "A Page in the Life of ..." > Subject: Manhattan Dome >> The only reason I can see to dome over Manhattan would be to protect >> the rest of the world from _the_sewer_that_never_sleeps_. > > Umm, snow, sleet, hail, rain and other precipitation comming in, and some > way to perhaps filter or at least cut down on the exhume of human living > (heat and CO2 are the inescapable ones ...) > Isn't that what we use houses, apartments, and offices for? I don't see the logic in sheltering shelters. >> I see many potential uses for the geodesic dome (most of which I've >> learned about since joining this list), but I strongly disagree with >> the idea of spending one's life indoors. > > Not "indoors" but sheltered. One can leave at will, and one > must abandon one's major polutants at the door (hopefully). > That means indoors. How can one just step outside when he/she would have to cross town to do so? There are many city dwellers who for some reason or lack of reason never leave their town. In a metropolis, such as Manhattan, with everything you need in town, there is even less incentive to venture passed the city limits. Remember, we're talking about Americans here, y'know the fat and lazy people of the world. People who get irradiated in indoor salons prior to going to the beach. People who have to go to the beach but then swim in the pool. >> "What doesn't kill you, will make you stronger" > > Why do you think it will kill you? It might, if nothing else, make us > weaker, due to the lessening of fighting with the elements. And it might > even help the elements to begin to recover ... think of the forced srubbing > of the air/water that would be recycled through the dome? If done > correctly, we would be taking a chunk of poisons out of the air for each > city so covered. > Here you missed the point entirely. I'm arguing against living in massive city-wide encompassing domes. Unless our dome designers are idiots, I would too imagine that conditions inside would be much more favorable than those outdoors. Therefore the hardships to which I infer that would _make_us_stronger_ are the elements of nature to which we are subjected. >> What chance would a child raised in an enclosed environement have at >> surviving later in life outside of this artificial womb. > > Again, I disagree that it would be entirely "closed" mostly because > business doesn't work that way. It would just be a city with the > equivelant of all the buildings interconnected. > If its not open - its closed. >> Maybe instead of trying to find a way to build a dome over a city, we >> should direct our attention towards making sure we will never have to >> dome over a city. > > Again, "have to" is based on all sorts of factors. Cubic is cheaper than > flat space. Realestate is the one comodity that we just _can't_ make more > of on our planet's survace without pushing some things to their limits. > Instead of letting a city (say ottawa) begin to sprall, use that outside > land for grazing, build ottawa into a volume instead of a surface, and > refrain from cutting down that much more of the Rain Forests. Save us from > mining more into the grounds and use the outer skin for power generation (a > whole bunch of solar/wind driven (or perhaps even thermic, due to the waste > heat of the inhabitants) energy generators on a large section of acerage > that just didn't exist before. > You still have not justified the erection of a dome over an already established city. You can build a garage for your '78 Gremlin, but its still a '78 Gremlin. I am well aware of the spacial and environmental benefits, but those arguments should be saved for a debate over creation of a new conventional city or a geodesic dome-town. *** The preceding comments and opinions are mine and mine alone and do not represent those of my employer in any way, shape, or form. *** "it is wise to keep in mind that no success or failure is necessarily final" -- H.Hammond ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:53:54 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Greg Marks I have several questions. I'm new to this list, so pardon me if I'm into something obvious or familiar. Is there a better name than "truncated tetrahedron" for the very special spherical configuration of 12 pentagons and 20 hexagons used in soccer balls, geodesic domes, and fullerene chemicals? Does anyone know the circumstances for selecting this geometry for modern soccer balls? Why was it not selected for basketballs, volley balls, etc. How does the timing of selecting this for soccer balls relate to Fuller's work, patents, etc. If anyone can point me to where this is discussed in the literature, I'll go hunt it up. I just finished Paddock's "Perfect Symmetry" book, but no luck there. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:37:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Karl Erickson Subject: Re: Darwin (was Critical Path) In-Reply-To: <199502082009.MAA01532@netcom19.netcom.com> from "Michael Stutz" at Feb 8, 95 12:15:51 pm >Michael Stutz: > >me: > >however, saying these land animals were human seems a bit strange. > Right. Anything's possible, I suppose, but it sounds strange. i see now that he says that humans are the only primates to shed salt-water tears, which dolphins, etc. also do. this is definitely a clue, but it could be a clue to many things. fuller chooses one of the least subtle: "hey, maybe humans _became_ dolphins." or maybe he knows more about the geometry of salt tears than i do. i've read, however, that squids evolved eyes very similar to our eyes, but along a quite divergent evolutionary path. the supposition was that eyes are something of an inherent geometry in universe, given photons and basic life chemistry. perhaps salt tears are the same way (they do seem simpler). or maybe some dolphins went on to become squids. ;) > "opposite-of-Darwinism" I mean that, while Darwin a "survival of the > fittest" where the best of the crop breed with the best of the crop to > produce a new better crop and so on evolving down the line, Fuller > believed that the reverse would happen: breeding specialized > "best-of"s would produce good specialists who lost their general > adaptability). this seems logical. i haven't studied darwinism in-depth, but i seem to recall that his main thing was focusing on mutations as the source of alternate gene encodings that natural selection can choose from. this is, i guess, obsolete. they've decided that mutation can't account for it. spontaneous order of some sort seems neccessary. this is how i've always accomodated the statement "darwin was wrong". another way is to simply attack the popular meme "survival of the fittest". this statement is clearly misleading. the less-than-fittest must survive as well, else who will the fittest have to dominate? better: "death of the unfit" - which is tautology: that which cannot live, dies. overspecialization comes from death (or other breeding exclusion) being too pointed. if all the white moths die from being visible against the pollution, only black moths can pass genes. less pointed death, however, leaves quite a wide set of possibilities that can be expanded on by breeding. fuller points out the difficulty in breeding for generalization. it is impossible to accurately predict which characteristics will be of general use. this is directly in line with synergy. all possible applications of anything can't be fully anticipated. the process of actually applying it to everything can't be short- circuited (else why would we need application at all?). this is my take on natural selection, the generalized principle of which _is_ an applicable contribution of darwin. higher geometry in universe is just as inherent as lower geometry. but universe builds from lower to higher. universe "discovers" the application of its doings, and spontaneously applies them. evolution is driven by the fact that there will always be applications as yet undiscovered. > the dna coding telescanned & landed on pg 8 (first full > paragraph, where he mentions that it could be possible that the > trilobites & dinosaurs could've been "test landings" for humans). > > m i've seen the idea of human dna being landed on earth from elsewhere. i've seen it as a science-fiction device to explain the proliferation of human-like races in such sf universes as Larry Niven's, and that of star trek. i've always wondered, however, if dna weren't part of the inherent geometry of universe. perhaps it is _the_ most spontaneously reachable reproductive geometry. and the human dna encoding is, perhaps, a reasonable development of that given basic land environments, etc. i don't see what is gained by moving its origin off planet. this, in my eyes, simply begs the question. if it was intentionally designed, then let's ponder the potentially more spontaneously feasible geometry of the designers. bucky didn't seem to carry this through very far, though. or did he? i didn't even remember it until i reread the pages just now. i haven't seen such wildness in his other writings. perhaps it's just another funky idea he felt like chewing on for a moment. i think many (most?) people look at bucky's weird ideas and spontaneously think he is attributing vast significance to them, rather than merely speculating about _potential_ application. no doubt this aimed his effect on the world in particular directions that he himself was inherently unable to anticipate. i wonder, then, if _critical path_ was seen as just another weird new-agey philosophy book, and ignored as such. if it was popularized in like fashion, perhaps many people who did read it forgot it when the trend it was connected to moved on. but it is the ideas, and not the time-bound applications, that defy obsolescence. -k. erixon - setebos@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:46:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Karl Erickson Subject: Re: Darwin (tagdi) To: setebos@netcom.com (Karl Erickson) From: tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl Subject: RE: Darwin (was Critical Path) forwarded to GEODESIC for tagdi (who was unable to get through) > Also anyone have any comments on his opposite-of-Darwin theories of >> evolution? I find it fascinating and worth exploration, but came the study of evoultion is so mixed up , eventhough it has been mixed with economics , education and sociology , it is not clear to me how is it doen. one comment might be relevent is to look at the history of education befor and after Darwin. it seems now that i think about it that Darwin himself was influenced by the simplistic of education system which as a whole thought children only writting readin and little artimatic and bible sayings anyway thatwas more less the idea of education . Nepoleon was one of the first to legeslate complex education system based on high schools and technical schools . 1803 somewher there. education in england wasnot centrized . mostlly made of different socities but at least the first 12 to 14 years was very very simplestic conception of how to teach children now we know that children are very complex and can learn even how solar system works if given in child way of understanding . solar system being synergatic . children can deal with complexes more than probablly million times more than adualts at least in creative way >> across (on page eight, no less) what was to me the most "far-out" >> thing of his that I read: "We can comprehend how South Sea-atoll, >> lagoon frolicking male and female human swimmers gradually inbred >> pairs of underwater swimmers who held their breath in their lungs for >> ever-longer periods, and after many inbreedings of largest lungers and F ideas are only speculative but are intrguing . when i read this the idea that humans love the sea and seem to be drwan to it in mysterous way ,crossed my mind . also the myth of marimad is very strong mthy. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 20:25:49 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Walt Lockley Subject: BUCKY'S CITY PROJECTS There is another, earlier citation for the Manhattan dome proposal, for anybody who's keeping track: there is an article by Bucky called "The Case for a domed City" in a special supplement to the St. Louis Post Dispatch of 9/26/65. It's an expanded version of the proposal most of us are familiar with, without many more technical details. Likely reprinted from another source. Walt klockley@delphi.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:38:20 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Geodesic Breakdown X-To: "Ken G. Brown" In-Reply-To: <1995Feb08.153324.2804751@maugham.atc.edmonton.ab.ca>; from "Ken G. Brown" at Feb 8, 95 3:33 pm Ken G. Brown writes: > > Joe > It's always good to see your interesting tid-bits on the Geodesic list. > Keep up the info flow. > I seem to recall somewhere a short reference to being able to create a > geodesic breakdown with all the same length struts based on some sort of > infinite series or some such thing. Do you know of anything like this? > > -Ken G. Brown- > Leduc, AB Canada > Same length struts has to do with Tensegrities. With tensegrity designs it's possible to have structures where all the struts are the same length and all the tension lines are the same length! Fuller called this the Unitary Component Tensegrity. See 'Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller', pages 169 and 234. Huge domes can only be built using tensegrity principles. See also pages 57-60. By the way, everyone should have a copy of 'Dymanion World'; I refer to it all the time. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 21:17:22 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: Manhattan Dome >> Not "indoors" but sheltered. One can leave at will, and one > That means indoors. How can one just step outside when he/she > would have to cross town to do so? [...] >> Again, I disagree that it would be entirely "closed" mostly because > If its not open - its closed. [...] > You can build a garage for your '78 Gremlin, but its still a '78 Gremlin. Harry, you're making a mistake in logic here -- that of either/or ("the mistake of western civilization" -- william s burroughs). Things vary in degrees; either/or misassumes two absolutes, a world of 0 and 1 and nothing else. Check out Bart Kosko's _Fuzzy Thinking_ (an ok intro into fuzzy logic) or the "Black _and_ White" chapter of Alan Watt's _The Book_. Hayakawa's _Language in Thought and Action_ is another good reference point, more accessible than Korczybski. To kinda pull in the "geodesic" theme here, I'll add that the first few pages of the intro to _Critical Path_ deals with just this -- the old misassumption of "negative and positive," or "good and bad." Also re: your last statement "You can build a garage ...," I would refute that with a basic definition of synergy (the whole is greater than its parts), and add that the inside-outing of a tetrahedron is a complex process. m ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 04:37:14 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Consumer Credit Advocates Organization: Consumer Credit Advocates, PC Subject: GUARANTEED CREDIT REPAIR BY LAW FIRM Consumer Credit Advocates, PC 11 Pennsylvania Plaza, Suite 2101 New York, NY 10001 (212) 629-5261 (telephone) (212) 629-4762 (fax) E-MAIL: ccapc@cyber.sell.com Our LAW FIRM offers direct guaranteed effective credit restoration services by experienced attorneys. THIS IS NOT A DO-IT-YOURSELF KIT. What can we do? We have successfully facilitated the removal of Late Payments, Charge-offs, Foreclosures, Repossessions, Collection Accounts, Loan Defaults, Tax Liens, Judgments and Bankruptcies from our clients' credit reports. WE GUARANTEE THAT YOUR CREDIT CAN BE RESTORED!!! Who needs our services? Anyone who has experienced the inconvenience and embarrassment of being turned down for a credit card, a lease or a purchase of an automobile. Anyone who is unable to buy the house of their dreams due to denial of a mortgage application or who has to pay thousands of dollars more in mortgage interest than someone with good credit. Anyone who has been turned down for a job or promotion due to derogatory credit items on a credit report. Anyone in business who has lost a deal because a person or firm wanted to see his/her credit report before doing business. Anyone who has been unable to establish credit. THE FOUR GREAT MYTHS OF CREDIT: Myth #1: It is illegal or immoral to have your credit report cleared. Fact: It is not illegal nor immoral. In fact, that is what the Fair Credit Reporting Act is all about. The act was enacted by Congress in 1971. One of its purposes as to give consumers the protection of the law and to help guard against any unwarranted invasion of a consumer's right to privacy. Myth #2: The information on a credit report cannot be changed. Fact: Actually, the opposite is true under the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Federal and State laws require that items be removed if they are not 100% accurate or cannot be verified in a timely manner. Myth #3: It is impossible to get a bankruptcy off a credit report. Fact: Bankruptcies can come off credit reports like any other derogatory item. The nature of the derogatory item has nothing to do with its removal under the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Myth #4: Credit Reporting Agencies are empowered with some kind of governmental authority. Fact: Absolutely Not!! They are simply large corporations whose primary goal is to make a profit like any other business. If you have ever applied for or received credit, a file exists in one or more of the credit bureaus. These companies collect, store and distribute as much credit information as they can find, retaining negative information on a credit report for 7 to 10 years. This information is evaluated by potential creditors to determine your credit worthiness. Credit reporting agencies are in business to protect the interests of the creditors. the LAW FIRM's goal is to help and protect the individual consumer from inaccurate credit reporting. The president of our LAW FIRM has been practicing consumer law since 1984. The staff of our firm has successfully processed, disputed and challenged thousands of client credit reports. Our legal fee is based o the number of negative items that appear on a client's credit reports, issued b the three national credit bureaus. Our retainer agreement offers a MONEY BACK GUARANTEE stating that if any negative item is not deleted, upgraded or corrected from a client's credit file, it will give the client a full refund for that item or continue to process the client's file at no additional fee until that item is corrected, upgraded or deleted. THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE TO LOSE IS YOUR BAD CREDIT!! PLEASE CONTACT THE LAW FIRM AND LEAVE YOUR FULL NAME, MAILING ADDRESS AND TELEPHONE NUMBER SO WE MAY FORWARD FURTHER INFORMATION AND INSTRUCTIONS TO YOU ABOUT OUR SERVICE. Consumer Credit Advocates, PC 11 Pennsylvania Plaza, Suite 2101 New York, NY 10001 (212) 629-5261 (telephone) (212) 629-4762 (fax) E-MAIL: ccapc@cyber.sell.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 08:33:55 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: GUARANTEED CREDIT REPAIR BY LAW FIRM In-Reply-To: ; from "Consumer Credit Advocates" at Feb 9, 95 4:37 am I resent the fact that you have deliberately posted your ad to an inappropriate discussion group. You have suceeded in leaving in leaving a negative impression with me. Is that what you really want to do? Please post your messages in the appropriate areas. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 11:39:26 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: Darwin (tagdi) >>> across (on page eight, no less) what was to me the most "far-out" >>> thing of his that I read: "We can comprehend how South Sea-atoll, >>> lagoon frolicking male and female human swimmers gradually inbred >>> pairs of underwater swimmers who held their breath in their lungs for >>> ever-longer periods, and after many inbreedings of largest lungers and > >F ideas are only speculative but are intrguing . when i read this >the idea that humans love the sea and seem to be drwan to it in mysterous >way ,crossed my mind . also the myth of marimad is very strong mthy. These ideas are very mysterious, and that's what I like about them. It seems to me that we never really know the beginnings or ends of things, but just the part where we're at -- the middle (and even that only to a degree). That's assuming there *is* a beginning and end, I guess. m ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:30:28 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harry 'BadDog' Hammond > Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:53:54 -0500 > From: Greg Marks > Is there a better name than "truncated tetrahedron" for the very special > spherical configuration of 12 pentagons and 20 hexagons used in soccer balls, > geodesic domes, and fullerene chemicals? Does anyone know the circumstances f or > selecting this geometry for modern soccer balls? Why was it not selected for > basketballs, volley balls, etc. How does the timing of selecting this for > soccer balls relate to Fuller's work, patents, etc. > well - making an educated guess - i would imagine that the design was chosen for its strength. soccer balls probably take more abuse. as for using similar designs for other sports equipment - well? the basketball is moved down the court by bouncing the ball down off a flat surface repeatedly. the multitude of seams on a geodesic basketball would cause the ball to error in bounce. volleyballs - maybe - but is that type of structural strength necessary? it sure seems to work good for soccer balls. *** The preceding comments and opinions are mine and mine alone and do not represent those of my employer in any way, shape, or form. *** "Remember: No success or failure is necessarily final" -- H.Hammond ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:45:42 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harry 'BadDog' Hammond Subject: Re: Manhattan Dome > >> Not "indoors" but sheltered. One can leave at will, and one > > That means indoors. How can one just step outside when he/she > > would have to cross town to do so? > [...] > >> Again, I disagree that it would be entirely "closed" mostly because > > If its not open - its closed. > [...] > > You can build a garage for your '78 Gremlin, but its still a '78 Gremlin. > > Harry, you're making a mistake in logic here -- that of either/or ("the mistak e > of western civilization" -- william s burroughs). Things vary in degrees; > either/or misassumes two absolutes, a world of 0 and 1 and nothing else. Chec k > out Bart Kosko's _Fuzzy Thinking_ (an ok intro into fuzzy logic) or the "Black > _and_ White" chapter of Alan Watt's _The Book_. Hayakawa's _Language in Thoug ht > and Action_ is another good reference point, more accessible than Korczybski. > > To kinda pull in the "geodesic" theme here, I'll add that the first few pages > of the intro to _Critical Path_ deals with just this -- the old misassumption > of "negative and positive," or "good and bad." Also re: your last statement > "You can build a garage ...," I would refute that with a basic definition of > synergy (the whole is greater than its parts), and add that the inside-outing > of a tetrahedron is a complex process. > > m > I don't believe i've been taking the all or nothing point of view. Inside a shelter or outside a shelter - seems rather cut and dry to me. Even if your shelter can similuate an outdoor feel, its not the real thing. Heck - if you wanted the real thing, you wouldn't build the shelter - right? I guess my idea of _utopia_ isn't as perfect as yours. as for my "last statement" - it was just another sarcastic analogy - don't take it too seriously. *** The preceding comments and opinions are mine and mine alone and do not represent those of my employer in any way, shape, or form. *** "Remember: No success or failure is necessarily final" -- H.Hammond ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 08:46:20 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Barbara Greene Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [Login: guest] Subject: Tensile Plydomes? Has anyone else worked with Fuller's tensile plydomes? I am considering building a cluster of them for a house, then ferrocementing them, but last researched the subject about ten years ago, so wonder if anyone has actually done this recently? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:37:33 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nate Briggs Subject: fuller's legacy I have long thought that there is enough Fulleriana to make a fine educational product - with that in mind I began casual research about a year ago. I began with the assumption that there would be something like a Fuller Institute or a Fuller Society that would be seeing after the patents, leading discussion of his designs (few of which have been discussed in the mainstream media lately) and generally shepherding the legacy of Mr. Fuller toward a time when his ideas are more fully appreciated. So far, I've found no such group Was there such a group in the distant past? Do they still operate now? Is there such a thing as a Main Fuller Archive? I would be grateful for any information on this topic. - Nate Briggs ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 16:52:41 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leonard Auslender Subject: Re: Manhattan Dome Jeez, I'd sure hate to see L.A. get domed over--I need to know there's a way out! Peace, health and happiness to you and yours, Leonard Auslender: siddhatma@aol.com {E-Mail welcome :)} "Friendships, like marriages, are dependent on avoiding the unforgivable." --John D. MacDonald ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:20:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Karl Erickson Subject: Re: Darwin In-Reply-To: <199502092050.MAA23766@netcom20.netcom.com> from "Michael Stutz" at Feb 9, 95 11:39:26 am Michael Stutz: > That's assuming there *is* a beginning and end, I guess. fuller's definition of finite universe is dependent on the beginning and end of perceived events, which overlap. to consider _no_ beginning and end, we must redefine the beginnings and endings perceived as something else. we are then in purely speculative territory. such a posit doesn't look like it would yield significant discovery as it's not experientially based. i consider the beginning to be 1, counting upward, and the "end" to be now (but i'm unable to tell you what number that might be ). -k. erixon - setebos@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:03:33 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leonard Auslender Subject: Re: Darwin (tagdi) "We can comprehend how South Sea-atoll, >>> lagoon frolicking male and female human swimmers gradually inbred >>> pairs of underwater swimmers who held their breath in their lungs for >>> ever-longer periods, and after many inbreedings of largest lungers and > >F ideas are only speculative but are intrguing > It seems to me that we never really know the beginnings or ends of > things, but just the part where we're at -- the middle (and even that > only to a degree). That's assuming there *is* a beginning and end, I > guess. A hen is just an egg's way of producing another egg. Peace, health and happiness to you and yours, Leonard Auslender: siddhatma@aol.com {E-Mail welcome :)} "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." --George Bernard Shaw ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 18:59:02 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kiyoshi Kuromiya Subject: Re: Critical Path X-cc: rich@cpp.pha.pa.us In-Reply-To: from "Michael Stutz" at Feb 7, 95 01:12:09 pm Michael-- Does the unexpected ending of the Cold War count as the beginning of the design science revolution? I think it signals something, but I will leave the conclusions to you after you have read further into Critical Path. Kiyoshi > > Anyone out there remember when _Critical Path_ came out back in '81? > I started reading it this weekend and am curious as to what the > initial reactions were when the book came out. And as to people's > opinions on this "design science revolution" that was supposed to > begin six years ago; apparently it was my post-Moon-lander Generation > X that was to "command and execute" this revolution. One thing he > said was that the vcr would be the new form of interactive education; > I'd say that he was off a little, that the net is doing *right now* > exactly what he said videotapes would do. > > > This is really a separate thread altogether, but -- > > Also anyone have any comments on his opposite-of-Darwin theories of > evolution? I find it fascinating and worth exploration, but came > across (on page eight, no less) what was to me the most "far-out" > thing of his that I read: "We can comprehend how South Sea-atoll, > lagoon frolicking male and female human swimmers gradually inbred > pairs of underwater swimmers who held their breath in their lungs for > ever-longer periods, and after many inbreedings of largest lungers and > as many outbreedings of general adaptability organic equipment, the > progency evolved into poroises and later into whales." Taking this > literally is to me more far-out than his theories that DNA-RNA was > 'landed' on the planet (which I could see). > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 01:49:14 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: KCuddeback@AOL.COM Subject: The Newsletter Please add me to your mailing list. The topic is very interesting to me. KCuddeback@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 02:29:32 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: fuller's legacy Nate Briggs wrote: >Is there such a thing as a Main Fuller >Archive? The Buckminster Fuller Institute 2040 Alameda Padre Serra, Suite 224 Santa Barbara, CA 93103 805/962-0022 >I have long thought that there is enough Fulleriana to make a >fine educational product - with that in mind I began casual >research about a year ago. > >I began with the assumption that there would be something >like a Fuller Institute or a Fuller Society that would be >seeing after the patents, leading discussion of his designs >(few of which have been discussed in the mainstream media >lately) and generally shepherding the legacy of Mr. Fuller >toward a time when his ideas are more fully appreciated. > >So far, I've found no such group Welcome aboard. I too went on a quest looking for some kind of group like what you're talking about ... and I think this is it. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:51:46 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "< Tagdi>" Subject: Re: Darwin In Message Thu, 09 Feb 1995 11:39:26 -0500, Michael Stutz writes: >>>> across (on page eight, no less) what was to me the most "far-out" >>>> thing of his that I read: "We can comprehend how South Sea-atoll, >>>> lagoon frolicking male and female human swimmers gradually inbred >>>> pairs of underwater swimmers who held their breath in their lungs for >>>> ever-longer periods, and after many inbreedings of largest lungers and >> >>F ideas are only speculative but are intrguing . when i read this >>the idea that humans love the sea and seem to be drwan to it in mysterous >>way ,crossed my mind . also the myth of marimad is very strong mthy. > >These ideas are very mysterious, and that's what I like about them. >It seems to me that we never really know the beginnings or ends of >things, but just the part where we're at -- the middle (and even that >only to a degree). That's assuming there *is* a beginning and end, I >guess. what is even more intriguing is the mind discoveries of connection . i mean really seeing releations . to solve the problem of the begining and end . first we need to correct . the idea of instantanous time reflex which based on galilo transformation, and Morly transformation ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:34:55 EST Reply-To: dkap@vax.ftp.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "A Page in the Life of ..." Subject: Manhattan dome In-Reply-To: Dan Tremitiere's message of Sat, 4 Feb 1995 00:43:50 GMT <199502040927.EAA25894@cs.brandeis.edu> Just a practical question regarding the NYC dome-over: How, if this plan were carried out, would one keep snow off in the winter? Two different and equally aplicable answers: 1) Why would you want to? It is a stable structure and the added weight wouldn't be a problem, and it *is* a good insulator. 2) Human waste heat should melt it quite nicely. Dave K. -- I will not get very far with this attitude. -- Bart Simson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 15:52:12 EST Reply-To: dkap@vax.ftp.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "A Page in the Life of ..." Subject: Manhattan Dome In-Reply-To: "Harry 'BadDog' Hammond"'s message of Wed, 8 Feb 1995 14:40:43 EST <199502082031.PAA17386@cs.brandeis.edu> >> The only reason I can see to dome over Manhattan would be to protect >> the rest of the world from _the_sewer_that_never_sleeps_. > > Umm, snow, sleet, hail, rain and other precipitation comming in, and some > way to perhaps filter or at least cut down on the exhume of human living > (heat and CO2 are the inescapable ones ...) > Isn't that what we use houses, apartments, and offices for? I don't see the logic in sheltering shelters. Yes, but unless you are planning to hibernate in yor house/apartment you still have to deal with the incomming elements on a day to day basis. How often do you catch a "cold" just walking down the street? How often does a city person? How about a walk in the park? In the snow? Human exude, the second part of my statement still needs to be dealt with -- especially for an old city (or a Gremlin) and that is the second reason above that needs to be addressed. The dome can be constructed to filter that as it goes *out* and that helps our world much more than anything else. >> I see many potential uses for the geodesic dome (most of which I've >> learned about since joining this list), but I strongly disagree with >> the idea of spending one's life indoors. > > Not "indoors" but sheltered. One can leave at will, and one > must abandon one's major polutants at the door (hopefully). > That means indoors. How can one just step outside when he/she would have to cross town to do so? In places it is safer to go cross town to "step outside" than it is to go outside your own door. 1) most people *don't* step outside except in the country (they go from house/apartment to car to office and back, outside time maybe a few seconds or even minutes) because the air in the city is BAD for you, and usually the wrong temperature for you to be comfortable in. 2) what is the inherent benefit of "outside"? If you mean the exposure, then most people would prefer to avoid it until they wanted to expose themeslves (and after all that information about skin cancer and such, I don't blame them) or if you mean for exercize or fresh air reasons, then both of these would be improved by doming over the city, for the air polution would be cut down, and there would be more space to exercize in (assuming that people continue to take advantage of cubic now available rather than surface) There are many city dwellers who for some reason or lack of reason never leave their town. In a metropolis, such as Manhattan, with everything you need in town, there is even less incentive to venture passed the city limits. Remember, we're talking about Americans here, y'know the fat and lazy people of the world. People who get irradiated in indoor salons prior to going to the beach. People who have to go to the beach but then swim in the pool. Yes, but they still go through the effort of going to the beach which is outside their city limits. They still will irratiate themselves and go to pools, just as they do now, but they don't have to restrict those activities to a certain time of the year, or worry about bundling up so heavily unless they choose to go out into the cold elements. >> "What doesn't kill you, will make you stronger" > > Why do you think it will kill you? It might, if nothing else, make us > weaker, due to the lessening of fighting with the elements. And it might > even help the elements to begin to recover ... think of the forced srubbing > of the air/water that would be recycled through the dome? If done > correctly, we would be taking a chunk of poisons out of the air for each > city so covered. > Here you missed the point entirely. I'm arguing against living in massive city-wide encompassing domes. Unless our dome designers are idiots, I would too imagine that conditions inside would be much more favorable than those outdoors. Therefore the hardships to which I infer that would _make_us_stronger_ are the elements of nature to which we are subjected. So you wish to weed the gene pool based on economics? I don't think that is a fair choice of stronger/weaker. >> What chance would a child raised in an enclosed environement have at >> surviving later in life outside of this artificial womb. > > Again, I disagree that it would be entirely "closed" mostly because > business doesn't work that way. It would just be a city with the > equivelant of all the buildings interconnected. > If its not open - its closed. Closed=No openings. Let's look at several (conventional) structures. A concrete bunker, (one opening, a door) a house, (several openings, doors and windows) a tent, (definitly a roof, at least one of the walls are mostly open) and, an awning (just a roof). I picture the dome somewhat close to a tent in style. The roof is solid, the sides have open areas (not doors, just openings) for traffic of whatever sort (foot / bike / public transport / teleportal / whatever) hence it is open. Covered but open. >> Maybe instead of trying to find a way to build a dome over a city, we >> should direct our attention towards making sure we will never have to >> dome over a city. > > Again, "have to" is based on all sorts of factors. Cubic is cheaper than > flat space. Realestate is the one comodity that we just _can't_ make more > of on our planet's survace without pushing some things to their limits. > Instead of letting a city (say ottawa) begin to sprall, use that outside > land for grazing, build ottawa into a volume instead of a surface, and > refrain from cutting down that much more of the Rain Forests. Save us from > mining more into the grounds and use the outer skin for power generation (a > whole bunch of solar/wind driven (or perhaps even thermic, due to the waste > heat of the inhabitants) energy generators on a large section of acerage > that just didn't exist before. > You still have not justified the erection of a dome over an already established city. You can build a garage for your '78 Gremlin, but its still a '78 Gremlin. I am well aware of the spacial and environmental benefits, but those arguments should be saved for a debate over creation of a new conventional city or a geodesic dome-town. Yes, but if I built a several floor garage with filtration on it so instead of parking four Gremlins in the space that I had and putting out four Gremlins worth of polution I was parking eight and putting out maybe two worth of polution or per