From MAILER-DAEMON@netaxs.com Thu Nov 16 17:10:28 1995 Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [128.205.2.1]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA20646 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:06:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199511161806.NAA20646@access.netaxs.com> Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 6858; Thu, 16 Nov 95 13:05:25 EST Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3134; Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:04:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:04:29 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UBVM (1.8b)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9510" To: "Christopher J. Fearnley" Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 21:31:45 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Celestine Prophecy, what s the next step? Answer, the music album... Aloha! We are Sheryl Preston and Michael Beachwood. We have been composing music for over twenty years each, respectively, and for over 6 years together. We read Celestine Prophecy last spring and really felt a wake up call! Sheryl was inspired to compose an album about the nine insights. Just completed, we are beginning to spread the word and would appreciate your input and help in doing so. WE ARE SOMEWHAT NEW TO THE INTERNET AND ANY IDEAS THAT YOU HAVE AS TO GETTING THE MESSAGE OUT WOULD BE GREAT! Here is the information... ============================================ Celestine Prophecy... What's the next step? The music album! "Celestine Inspiration - Nine Songs For Nine Insights". The music captures the energy and the lyrics review the themes of each of the nine insights, in sequential order. All songs are written in an easy-listening-classical-pop style with the intent to capture the basic feeling of each chapter of the book, as well as to induce inspiration and spawn creativity. The lyrics give each insight in a nutshell, allowing the listener to grasp the messages easily and "carry a tune" along to light their way on the path of their destiny. This album is a fantastic way to review the insights! A most positive, uplifting experience. Please visit our homepage for more info http://www.maui.net/~pbm Email pbm@maui.net =========================================== OUR INTENTIONS: The universal language of music can help bring more change, more quickly. Music is more convenient to absorb, as one can be doing other things while listening. It's easier. Our objective is two-fold: [1] to appeal to the people who haven't read the book, to bring them the information, and [2] create more consciousness for those who have read the book, by reviewing the insights in a convenient way. The universal appeal of music and lyric can help to create a LARGER CRITICAL MASS in order to perpetuate the increase in frequency of our entire society. ============================================ Thanks for your time - we look forward to your input! Please visit our homepage, listed below! Michael Beachwood and Sheryl Preston Preston-Beachwood Music Box 1027 - Kula, Maui, HI 96790-1027 FAX 808 876 0482 E-mail pbm@maui.net HomePage http://www.maui.net/~pbm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 19:16:53 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Solar airships >hot air [note: you'd only want to park such a monster-collector, at any metropolitan center, after sunrise & leave before --oops-- sunsight !-) ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:21:31 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Geodesic Language 1.the earth is icos 10 to ~36 frequency layer redgid hurdling in vacuum(void) at 60,000 miles an hour around the sun. 2.All building are farther from each other at the top than at the botom. 3.It has been know that the earth moves around the sun befor the birth of christ. 4.Children like to understand the behaviour of group of events, they draw the moon and the sun together. 5.Everyone uses stairs to go out to higher floors. 6.Elevators go out and in. 7.He sunviews becuse of earth spin in. 8.He suneclips becuse of earth spin out. 9.Ridgidity is full of holes, holes are 99% of ridgds. 10.His mind is pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 02:10:46 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Celestine Prophecy, what s the next step? uh-oh, I can't hear the music, no I-stereo -- what are the 9 steps, in ASCII ?!?... hello?... are you folks really reading this, or was that a Celestine Spamecy? ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:31:33 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robin van Spaandonk Organization: Improving Subject: Re: Solar airships In article <44gcut$2dq@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, Nick Pine wrote : [snip] >Or an envelope that is transparent on one half and black on the other, >if we can keep the transparent side aimed at the sun. > >Or an envelope that has one transparent side and one aluminized mylar side, >with a small, high-thermal-mass (eg black water balloon) target in the center, >surrounded by a small insulating transparent envelope, with the outside >balloon oriented so that the sun passes through the transparent side and >gets reflected and concentrated by the shiny side onto the black target. [snip] Just make the top half transparent, and the bottom half black on the inside, and silver on the outside. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:57:56 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: Solar airships Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >Just make the top half transparent, and the bottom half black on the >inside, and silver on the outside. Nice suggestion :-) A little water in the bottom, with a small pump or some sort of passive tracker to move it around from one pouch to another? Or maybe this should be a flying funnel, a sunscoop with a transparent top and shiny Compound Parabolic Concentrating conical sides... As for the dirigible floor lamp, would you say a dry cleaner bag with 150 F air from a bulb with a high power/weight ratio, or some very thin tungsten or nichrome wire, attached to two fine copper wire tethers? Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:14:51 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David F. Watkins" Subject: Re: Celestine Prophecy, what s the next step? In-Reply-To: On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Brian Hutchings wrote: > uh-oh, I can't hear the music, no I-stereo -- > what are the 9 steps, in ASCII ?!?... hello?... > are you folks really reading this, or was that a Celestine Spamecy? The spam merchants seem to be more active recently. If they continue to expand, mailing lists will probably need to develop some policies to make the practice counter-productive. Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:00:57 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Dirigible floor lamp musings If the balloon weighs 1 pound per 400 ft^2 (What do dry cleaner bags weigh?), with an R-value of 0.6 ft^2-F/Btu, and the inside air temperature is 175 F (will that melt the bag?), and the room air is 68 F, how big must it be to support itself? Sea level air at 175 F weighs 0.0625 lbs/ft^3, so 68 F air should weigh about 0.0752 lb/ft^3, ignoring humidity. The lifting force should be at least 0.0752 - 0.0625 = 0.0127 lbs/ft^3. An r' radius sphere would be self-supporting when 4 pi r^2/400 = 4/3 pi r^3 x 0.0127 ==> r = 3/(400 x 0.0127) = 1'. Keeping the air hot requires (175F-68F) x 4 pi 1^2 ft^2/R0.6 = 2241 Btu/hour or 657 watts. Too much, except for a sometime toy... Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:23:34 GMT Reply-To: littrox@richmond.infi.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles Troxell Organization: Lighting Images Technology, Inc. Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings In article <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) says: > > > >Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? > >Nick > This lamp and light source is already for sale in the US. Saw it at light fair as well as at the AEC show in Richmond. It's being touted with all sincerity as a viable source and is in particular good stead as as advertising bill board. Build away there, friend. But don't tread on some ones existing patent!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:58:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Martha Rubin Subject: newbie Hi - I'm a new member of this list, and intend with some luck to commence building of a geodesic dome in Oakland, CA in about 18-24 months. I have MANY specific questions about layout, but first have some general questions I wonder if any of you seasoned veterans may be able to help me with. 1. What are the pros and cons of a 3/8 vs. a 5/8 dome? 2. What are your comments about putting 8' riser walls under either? 3. What is the most economical floor plan layout? (I assume things like keeping the plumbing located as much in one place, both horizontally and vertically as possible, etc. But, as I'm a musician, rather than an architect, I'm sure there are other things I should be aware of. Thanks in advance, Martha Rubin nrubin@s1.csuhayward.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:21:37 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Celestine Prophecy - Nine Songs For Nine Insights Celestine Prophecy, the book by James Redfield, has inspired a music album, entitled, "Celestine Prophecy - Nine Songs For Nine Insights". Please see our homepage http://www.maui.net/~pbm or Email pbm@maui.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:38:32 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ross Alexander Organization: Athabasca University Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) writes: >Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? Well, you could open up a lightbulb. regards, Ross -- Ross Alexander, ve6pdq -- (403) 675 6311 -- rwa@cs.athabascau.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:34:36 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Celestine Prophecy Comments: To: rstout@maui.net Comments: cc: postmaster@maui.net Sirs: One of your users (pbm@maui.net) CONTINUES to spam our mailing list with a blantant sales pitch. So far we, and I presume many other mailing lists, have been attacked twice by this clueless spammer. Our mailing list - "The List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" (GEODESIC@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU) has nothing to do with music, therefore the ad for a new record is objectionable. Please educate and/or pull this user's plug. Refusal to cooperate will result in some big beefy guys from the Maui High Performance Computing Center paying a visit - maui.net will be "Here Today, Gone To Maui". Not to worry, you will be "Guam, But Not Forgotten". (Just kidding about the beefy guys, the guys and gals at MHPCC are all skinny little geeks. I just could not resist the puns.) james fischer Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort (BATTLE) ~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~ Bogus Spam Sent by pbm@maui.net Below ~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~ >Celestine Prophecy, the book by James Redfield, has inspired a music album, >entitled, "Celestine Prophecy - Nine Songs For Nine Insights". > >Please see our homepage http://www.maui.net/~pbm >or Email pbm@maui.net ~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~ End Bogus Spam Sent by pbm@maui.net ~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~ Make peace with your Enemy. With whom ELSE can you make peace? james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com The Information Supercollider Split infinitives, not atoms! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:23:46 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings >Nick Pine (nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu) asked: >>Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? and Ross Alexander (rwa@cs.athabascau.ca) replied: >Well, you could open up a lightbulb. How many lawyers does it TAKE to open a lightbulb? ...How many can you afford? Make peace with your Enemy. With whom ELSE can you make peace? james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com The Information Supercollider Split infinitives, not atoms! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:15:20 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: General principle the intelectual discovery of a law is removes the experience into a higher level, dividing reality into sense and idea. thinking is not machine like operation, it is verstile it not thinking when i sum up two figures together or when i day dream. Fuller ideas moves in and around many area of experience and abstract slides. would you consider the discovery of finger prints, and infering sikness from number of clues generalized principles? it seems that the word experience itself is generalized. time is a set (hour, day,year,past ,present future, successsion, simultaneity ect). If we wish to answer the abstract question: What is time? we shall have to determine the logical interconnections between this and related concepts.( from philosphy) if thinking is exclusion rather than inclusion, and if it is nonsimultaneous does this make for confused thinking? general most comon, usual. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:31:01 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Searfoss Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings In <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu> nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) writes: > >If the balloon weighs 1 pound per 400 ft^2 (What do dry cleaner bags weigh?) >Keeping the air hot requires > >(175F-68F) x 4 pi 1^2 ft^2/R0.6 = 2241 Btu/hour or 657 watts. > >Too much, except for a sometime toy... > >Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? > >Nick > This could be an interesting project, also an interesting hazard to aircraft. Might be hard for a turbine to swallow. could tangle or break a prop. Go thru a windshield...etc. Hang on to it.!!!! bye. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:40:12 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: digest fLUX-staff Subject: Re: newbie Hello Please keep me updated on how the dome is progressing. We plan to build one once the CD-series is completed. Keep in touch. Frank Rothkamm /\ / G \ /____\ ~~~~~fLUX_NYC~~~~~ ~~~~Box 2141~~~~ ~~~New York~~~ ~~ NY 10163~~ ---------- Dadua@aol.com 1-718-599-9377 fLUX/NYC is a label for sonic, symbolic & scriptural propaganda funded by the Hermetic Lodge 251. fLUXmailOrder $15.- (check or money order) made payable to ROTHKAMM. Send to: fLUX, Box 2141, New York, NY 10163 ----------------- cut here ------------------- Subj: DOME MANUFS Date: Tue, Aug 29, 1995 3:05 PM EDT From: joemoore@cruzio.com X-From: joemoore@cruzio.com (Joe Moore) To: Dadua@aol.com GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore May 26, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Summer 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: - American Ingenuity Verified: May 1995 8777 Holiday Springs Road ? Rockledge, FL 32955-5805 Tel: 407-639-8777 Fax: 407-639-8778 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Cascade Domes Verified: ? P.O. Box 1977 ? Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Domes America Verified: ? 6345 West Jolie Road ? Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: DomEstic Designs Verified: ? P.O. Box 4203 ? Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 893 Wilson Avenue Joe & Kevin Frawley St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos McCarter Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Wood kits Geodesic Domes & Homes Verified: ? 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Summer 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Bob Davies & Glenn Van Doren Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Hexadome Verified: Summer 1992 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Summer 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: - Key Dome Verified: 4-95 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Winter 92-3 P.O. Box 980427 Einar Thorstein Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: $19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Summer 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Space Domes Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, Dennis & Janet Johnson North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ? 999 Harrison Court Hal Klopp & Bruce Hamilton Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Linda Boothe Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pond-Brook Products Verified: ? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $34.95 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Semispheres Verified: ? 1505 Webster Street ? Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: ugly looking! Shelter Systems Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ? P.O. Box 400 ? Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $39.95 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Temcor Verified: ? 2825 Toledo Street Don Richter Torrance, CA 90503 Tel: Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Timberline Geodesics Verified: June 2, 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Topsider Homes Verified: ? P.O. Box 848 ? Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: 1994 One Penn Plaza New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Summer 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: - National Dome Council Verified: ? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 - DOME (magazine) Verified: Summer 1994 4401 Zepher Stret Donald R. Hoflin Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:42:36 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Copper > James Fischer >> >> How many lawyers does it TAKE to open a lightbulb? >> > they say invention is related to humor in some way. > who invented the copper wire? > > two dutch pulling on one guilder. > > M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:28:49 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Copper >> they say invention is related to humor in some way. >> who invented the copper wire? >> >> two dutch pulling on one guilder. >> WIRE you asking? Make peace with your Enemy. With whom ELSE can you make peace? james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com The Information Supercollider Split infinitives, not atoms! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 05:17:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Vhigbee Organization: Cal State Long Beach Subject: Re: Solar airships I've been playing with the idea of airships on small scales (mylar models so far) for over a year now. What would happen if a light geodesic frame were built and a light, strong envelope enclosed it. If the air inside were heated or in some other fashion evacuated then sealed. The resulting structure would be "permanently" bouyant as in lighter than air gas filled airships without the need for onboard reserves of this gas and the concerns of outside temperature differentials as in hot air type airships. The numbers, as in most airship design, look better with increasing sizes. Two or more skins can be used to create buffered pressure pockets, reducing the pressure differences from the inside to the outside, and sharing the stress. Not an entirely new idea (in fact the oldest i.e. 17th century, I believe), but with modern materials like graphite composites and mylar,etc. perhaps closer to realization. Comments please. Brian Ward of vannbri@csulb.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:14:22 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: newbie I haven't really built anything, just looked at the books so, I don't recall the differences amonst 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 domes (although I seem to recall that 5/8 works for the "alternate" trigation of the icosah., with nice opportunities for doors at groundlevel), but kneewalls (or whatever you called'em) should be simplest for the 1/2 domes, since any geodesic spheres can be stretched by a -vault- of arbitrary (within frequencies of the triga) length between the two hemispheres (of the complete sphere, of course). good luck & compile a progress-report for us to subscribe to! ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:47:14 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Copper In Message Tue, 03 Oct 1995 18:28:49 -0400, James Fischer writes: >>> they say invention is related to humor in some way. >>> who invented the copper wire? >>> >>> two dutch pulling on one guilder. >>> > > WIRE you asking? > Guilder is Holland dollar coine. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:07:14 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: newbie Hello Joe, are you still in planet polluto. >Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 >P.O. Box 479 ? >Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: >$19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Just becuse i am intrested to make some business( just an idea) i think the address is missing the name of the City. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:56:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "M.J. Kraak" Organization: Faculty of Geodetic Engineering Comments: To: geo-newsgroups@Geo.TUDelft.NL SDH'96 ----------------- CALL FOR PAPERS SDH'96 ----------------- CALL FOR PAPERS SDH'96 ----------------- CALL FOR PAPERS SDH'96 ----------------- CALL FOR PAPERS THE MEETING The International Symposium on Spatial Data Handling (SDH) is the premier research forum for Geographical Information Systems. It commenced in 1984, in Zuerich, and has been held every two years since. The meetings have been held in Seattle, Sydney, Zuerich, Charleston and Edinburgh. It is the primary event organised by the International Geographical Union's Commission on Geographical Information Systems. The 1996 meeting will be held in Delft, the Netherlands, August 12-16, hosted by the Faculty of Geodetic Engineering of the Delft University of Technology. PAPERS Following the Edinburgh approach the SDH programme committee will be selecting papers based on the complete paper, not abstracts, which will be fully refereed by at least three international recognised specialists. The programme committee is chaired by Professor Martien Molenaar (Wageningen Agriculture University, Centre for Geo-Information Processing)) Papers will be evaluated on the basis of how well they reflect the cutting edge of scientific achievment in the field. There is no particular conference theme, however the keynote spreakers will address the impact of fundamental GIS reseach. To see the range of topics likely to be coverd , consult previous SDH proceedings papers. Some of the topics are: data integration, databases, algorithms, spatial decision support systems, spatial analysis, digital terrain modelling, visualization and multi- media, spatio-temporal GIS, fuzzy processing, uncertainty and error analysis. The proceedings will be published in book format by Taylor & Francis. They also published the 1994 porceedings. DEADLINES Deadline for papers JANUARY 15, 1996 Notification of acceptance APRIL 15TH, 1996 Final version of papers (allows corrections/minor updates) JUNE 1ST, 1996 INSTRUCTION TO AUTHORS Individuals and groups should submit complete papers by the deadline of January 15th 1996. These papers should be 10 pages in length (approximated 5000 words). Please note that longer papers are likely to be rejected. The papers, written in english, should include : - title - author(s), affiliation, addresses, tel/fax mumbers, e-mail address - abstract (up to 200 words) - up to five keywords - texts (and illustrations) - references The papers should be submitted on paper, disk (see below for formats), or e-mail (if no diagrams). Note that papers may not be submitted by fax. The address is: - SDH96 - Faculty of Geodetic Engineering - Delft University of Technology - Thijsseweg 11, 2629 JA Delft - the Netherlands - sdh96@geo.tudelft.nl After acceptance, final papers MUST be submitted both on paper and MS-DOS formatted disk. Formats acceptable for text: - Microsoft Word for Windows - Wordperfect for Windows and non-windows - ASCII Graphics are acceptable in: - TIF and GIF (bitmaps) - CDR (Coreldraw), - Postscript (PS, EPS and AI), - Mac PICT format on DOS formatted disk INFORMATION SERVICE The conference has an on-line information service which can be contacted by either e-mail or WWW. The e-mail address is: sdh96info@geo.tudelft.nl A message with no specific request will reply with instructions on how to use the service. conference e-mail, which demands a personal answer, should be send to: sdh96@geo.tudelft.nl The WWW address of the SDH96 homepage is: http://www.geo.tudelft.nl/~sdh96/ GENERAL CHAIR SDH96 - Menno-Jan Kraak - Faculty of Geodetic Engineering - Delft University of Technology - Thijsseweg 11, 2629 JA Delft - the Netherlands - phone: +31 15 782584 - fax: +31 15 782745 - e-mail: kraak@geo.tudelft.nl CURRENT SDH'96 SPONSORS - ESRI - Survey Department, Ministry of Transport and Public Works - Netherlands Cadastre - Netherlands Cartographic Society - Netherslands Photogrammetric Society - Bridgis - Netherlands Geodetic Commision ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:56:41 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tom Dosemagen Subject: Re: newbie The 5/8 dome will give you more head room on all the levels above the main level. You haven't said what diameter dome you are considering. I live in a 44' diameter dome and used 2' riser walls. This is what was recommended to me by the dome company that I ordered my dome from. Like you I'm not an architect, so I would check with the people that you are going to get your dome from. As for interior layout, let your imagination go wild. Just keep in mind that it is much easier to stack rooms that require plumbing. If you have any more questions just ask. I have lived in dome for 15 years and wouldn't move back into a box type house for anything. Good luck. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:04:53 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Martha Rubin Subject: Re: newbie Gosh. I'm beginning to think I'm a bit out of my league. Being a professional musician, I'm ashamed to say that your vocabulary concerning these structures was a bit hieroglyphic to me :( - What is trigation? icosah? kneewalls? vault of arbitrary length? triga? I'm beginninig to understand that i have a LOT to learn! TIA, /martha busgirl@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: newbie wrote: >>Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 >>P.O. Box 479 ? >>Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: >>$19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes > i think the address is missing the name of the City. Italy, Texas, is about an hour south of Dallas. Just reading the July/August issue of MC's "Roundup" newsletter, in which they describe watching a tornado pass directly over their dome office. It snapped off a telephone pole at the base, which landed smack on the roof, but nobody inside even heard it hit, and later they found it just scratched the surface. Meanwhile, the tornado uprooted several large trees nearby, snapped others in half, threw a few doghouses up in the air, dogs included, flung a trash dumpster 50 yards, which landed on top of a trailer, tossed a canoe 150 yards from its pond, twisted up two steel barns "like licorice," and went on to severely damage several conventional buildings. Last year I heard someone describe an earthquake that happened during a church service inside a Monolithic dome in Alaska--6.8 on the Richter scale, as I recall. Several people fell down as the floor heaved all over, but there was no structural damage to the dome. These domes are incredibly strong. Overbuilt, I'd say. Monolithic has been building them all over the world for 20 years now, and they are just starting to do houses. Their domes are typically quite a bit larger, eg 200' in diameter and 10 stories tall, with a 50 ton grain elevator on the roof, with no additional support, except for the reinforced concrete shell of the dome underneath. Their domes are also quite cheap and quick to construct and very fireproof. Insurance rates for these all-masonry buildings, walls and roof, are about one third that of a conventional building, according to the newsletter. And their domes are extremely energy-efficient. And they make high performance passive solar houses, since the concrete mass is inside the foam insulation. Nick (I have no financial interest in this company.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:17:45 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Re: newbie > >>>Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 >>>P.O. Box 479 ? >>>Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: >>>$19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes > >> i think the address is missing the name of the City. > >Italy, Texas, is about an hour south of Dallas. i thought it was Italy. and the Tx for telex, but that is me always tired. I hope to talk with my brother to build them in Libya,so far no geodesic home have been built there. May be i can get rich ( just kidding) and since the world getting to be quiclyinterconectedit is time they move into the ecological technology. they only have about 30 billion barrel in the ground(1990) of oil enough for 20 years then they will be living on dates. >Just reading the July/August issue of MC's "Roundup" newsletter, in which >they describe watching a tornado pass directly over their dome office. >It snapped off a telephone pole at the base, which landed smack on the >roof, but nobody inside even heard it hit, and later they found it just >scratched the surface. Meanwhile, the tornado uprooted several large trees >nearby, snapped others in half, threw a few doghouses up in the air, dogs >included, flung a trash dumpster 50 yards, which landed on top of a trailer, >tossed a canoe 150 yards from its pond, twisted up two steel barns "like >licorice," and went on to severely damage several conventional buildings. doghouses out ,outrooted your search for detail is fantastac, i noticed in the solar staff you write though i have not read well the minute details, someday i will.I wish i could be so detailed in my evidence. Anyway people who have studied the geomety little know by building a model that the icos and hig f of icos are very strong. so strucutally geodesic dome are very strong, exctly what fuller say. i am just repeating, and your story only adds to the evidence. the pole and the trees have no tringular tensional support, so they naturally snap off. It happens in a mild storm in tripoli. this reminds me of why banans buckle. >Last year I heard someone describe an earthquake that happened during >a church service inside a Monolithic dome in Alaska--6.8 on the Richter >scale, as I recall. Several people fell down as the floor heaved all over, >but there was no structural damage to the dome.(fell in) when i think cement i think cubic building. >These domes are incredibly strong. Overbuilt, I'd say. Monolithic has been >building them all over the world for 20 years now, and they are just starting >to do houses. Their domes are typically quite a bit larger, eg 200' in >diameter and 10 stories tall, with a 50 ton grain elevator on the roof, with >no additional support, except for the reinforced concrete shell of the dome >underneath. if one want to build them in africa, is it possible to make them on the spot. and can they build smaller ones. i send information to the Indian embassy few years ago when a city in india was hit by an earthqueck, the information was about the safty of geodesic domes. India already know about fuller structures. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:32:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Vandy Henriksen Subject: Re: newbie >> >>>>Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 >>>>P.O. Box 479 ? >>>>Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: >>>>$19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes >> >>> i think the address is missing the name of the City. >> >>Italy, Texas, is about an hour south of Dallas. > > i thought it was Italy. and the Tx for telex, but that is me always > tired. I hope to talk with my brother to > build them in Libya,so far no geodesic home have been built there. Howdy all! I'm heading from Austin TX to Dallas TX tomorrow and will be passing through Italy TX. I'll try and stop and pick up some first hand info on their operation. Monolithic's had some domes on the side of the high way for a couple of years now, but I've never stopped to talk to them before. They have a great folky/kitschy eyecatcher which is about 8 medium sized domes in a row that are squished together, painted bright colors, and have eyes painted and long antenna attached on one end. Nothing like a 150 foot caterpillar to catch your eye, even in Texas! Best, vh ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: AFund Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: AFund Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: newbie Best new building disaster resisttance technology we believe comes from International Hi-Tech Industries--earthquake resistance, virtually fireproof, hurricane and flood proof etc. For technical info call the company 1-800-838-8090. FYI I DO have a financial stake in the company i.e. own shares and believe it will revolutionize the construction industry as Microsoft did the computer industry. Cheers. There are plenty of disasters to look out for. Henry Weingarten ASTROLOGERS FUND "Always a Stellar Performance" Email: AFund@aol.com 212/949-7275 Fax: 212/949-7274 350 Lexington Ave #402 NY NY 10016-0909 http://www.ids.net/starbridge/afund ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:39:30 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: newbie > [huh ?!?] this is where the phrase, "it's all Greek to me" comes from -- geometry -- but I have my own peculiarities, as well, stemming from my wish to be consistent & concise; I use the Greek "trigon", as in trigonometry, instead of "triangle", the literal translation, and "triga" is the plural (I guess), as well as "tetraga" for the general quadrilaterals, although "square" is still convenient for the regular tetragon. also, I abbreviate: icosah.=icosahedron=icosahedra, icosag.=icosagaon=icosaga. kneewalls are your (I already forgot the again-above-used word); at the base of dome, they'll be a short cylinder, and a vault is just a half-cylinder that's used as a shelter, although I was just referring to the cylindrical aspects of trigation (or omnitriangulation, as Bucky'd say), not really half-cylinders! ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 06:51:14 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jake Hudson Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) Subject: Recipes for sale!! Ever gone to a fast food chain restaurant and spent $10.00-$15.00 a meal on food that is not that good or even healthy?????? Well I know that you so here is my anser to your money problem for the price of $5.00 you will get over 74 recipies that our safe and are very cheap to make. A study that I did found out that if you eat at home more that you eat out then you will live longer and will save al least $750-$1500.00 a YEAR!!!!!!!!! All that you have to do is send me the five dollars( to handle the time that I put in to make this all happen) you must also send me a ms-dos pre formatted disk that will work with a IBM-PC( sorry macs maybe latter) and also include a self addressed stamped envelope................ One more reason that you should buy these is because you can lose weight because all of these are healthy meals that will cut your calories........................take off all of that fat..... to get your 75 healthy recipes send your $5.00(U.S. money only, ONLY CASH) your 1 preformatted ( 3.5inch 1.44 meg) disk, and a self addressed stamped envelope. if you want more recpes then send $10.00 and you will get 150 of the best tasting recipies in the world. Just try then they are only $5.00-$10.00 it will be worth it for you. ok, here is my final offer if you just want to try out the product to see if it works then send $1.00(cash only) to the address below........ ........you will not need a disk for this option..........you will then receive 5 recipes to try and see if you like, befor you by the big pack........ Send all the stuff to: Recipies inc. 9393 Nth 90th street Suite 102-289 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:41:39 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Daniel Whiting Subject: Re: Recipes for sale!! Do all of your recipies include SPAM? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:34:11 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Davis Subject: Re: Recipes for sale!! In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hudson" at Oct 6, 95 06:51:14 am Please get a spell checker for your unsolicited ads. Bye. -- F. Willis Davis UPDATE Magazine!, Editor P.O. Box 17 Mexico, IN 46958 fdavis@holli.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 18:01:07 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: Re: newbie How does MC do windows and doors? Do they utilize Bournolli self-cooling ? Have they ever tried it ? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 14:52:14 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Generalized principle Is this a generalized principle? In any geodesic structure the distance between any two vertical buildings at the top will alawys be more than the distance on the ground. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 14:59:21 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Invention Fog shower: Can this be extended to clean cars and machines. M.tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:08:08 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Precesssion The other than 180 degree precession is not at all like the solid corner of builings, but is more like computer software language 90 degree effects. Invisible and butterfly like, it may just be like thinking itself. Can the angle be 190 degree? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:49:18 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Trivia I read in a news group about dreams to count 1 2 3 in case if not succeding in escaping by flying(many times i cant fly anymore) and it works, well i thought that might have to do you with the basis of reality on geometrical numbers(Pythagors,Fuller) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:42:27 GMT Reply-To: ross@kea.ak.planet.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ross Keatinge Organization: Cellnet Mobile Services Ltd Subject: Looking for domes to visit in Georgia or Florida Hi there... This is a bit of a long shot but... >From November 18th I will be visiting a friend in Georgia, an hour's drive north of Atlanta for two weeks and then driving to Florida for a week before returning to New Zealand. I hope to build a dome home one day and would love to see some examples. Are there any dome home owners listening in that area who wouldn't mind a quick visit? As a general Bucky fan, I'm also interested in any suggestions for places of interest to visit. I plan to visit the Epcot Center. Regards Ross Keatinge Auckland, New Zealand. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:27:01 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: a definition of Univers I am sort of not happy by Fuller definition of Univese becuse it seems not to effect me much, so i thought perhaps the language is not intimate and therefor stays a bit remote. the definiton is quite accurte to my best of knowldge. So i thought perhaps we should start from not to well defined, or imperfect definition and improve it step by step, and use other words which perhaps gives little of the feeling that he tried to impart. do not mind me if I did not take much time to think, and forgive me if i make stupid mistakes as i always do (haha). Universe is made of endless stories which are happining now, happend, or shall happen but not at the same instinte some overlap like a dynamic sets. these stories can be actual or imaginable, visible or invisible. there timing is related to Einstein clock expirment of relativity, a general law from the science of phiscis, which has been generalized by fuller to all the stories of which some are accuring at this minute which are finite, they have a start and an fini, these definition apply to all the observers of which some are in two trains passing by at 200 mile per houre, or observers of two horses in the victorian times passing each other at 20 meter per minute, or to add more fun to the definiton a dinasouras passing a tierasouras 200 million years ago. I am leaving now and few minutes to 10 hours later some observers will read this but not at the same instint, few might overlap. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 06:25:23 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: newbie Anthony Kalenak wrote: >How does MC do windows and doors? The domes are built by inflating a vinyl "airform," then spraying it inside with foam, then putting some "stickers" on the foam, then wiring on reinforcing rod to the stickers, then spraying the inside with concrete. Windows and doors are made by sewing right angular "augmentations" onto the basically hemispherical airform, and not spraying those parts with foam and concrete, and adding on conventional windows and doors when the shell is finished. >Do they utilize Bournolli self-cooling ? Hmmm. What's that? Vent holes at the top seem popular... On another subject: Article: 40706 of sci.energy From: nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.energy,sci.engr.mech,alt.energy.renewable, alt.architecture.alternative,alt.solar.thermal Subject: Re: Solar Energy Date: 8 Oct 1995 06:06:21 -0400 Organization: Villanova University Gary Coffman wrote: >Putting that in perspective, you're talking about 594,000 BTU, about >the amount of heat my furnace puts out in two hours. What do you suggest >for the other 2158 hours I need heat each season? I've tried to explain this at least twice before, but for some reason, few people around here seem to listen, perhaps because everyone is shouting. Sci.energy people seem to be very energetic, hopping up and down all the time. Perhaps we can all pause and relax for a moment, and become perfectly calm. Let us put aside our own thoughts for a moment, and allow the waters of our minds to become less rippled, to become perfectly smooth reflecting pools, perfect mirrors, perfectly still waters in which we can clearly and calmly see the reflected reality of the world around us, just listening... 1. A 16' solar closet containing a 15' cube of 130 F hot water, say, and 6" of insulation, stores a useful heat for space heating purposes of about 15 ft^3 x 62 lb/ft^3 x (130F-80F) = 10 million Btu, not a half-million, as stated above, and 2. In the house heating system I have in mind, this heat battery would only be used to heat the house when the sun is not shining. On an average winter day, the solar closet just keeps itself warm. It does not supply any heat to the house, except by leakage. On an average day in the winter, with some sun, the house is heated by an inexpensive, low-thermal-mass sunspace, that collects about 800 Btu/ft^2 of glazing/day, where I live. If you tell me how much oil you use over a season, I can tell you how big a sunspace you need. If you use, say, 1000 gallons of oil a year, and the heating season is 200 days, you need 5 gallons of oil a day, on the average, ie you need a sunspace glazing area of about 5 gallons x 100,000 Btu/gallon/800 Btu/ft^2/day = 625 ft^2 of south-facing sunspace area, which is a pretty big sunspace, eg about 40' long x 16' high. But then, that's a pretty big heat load... You can buy the components for such a sunspace from a commercial greenhouse supplier for less than $1,000... The components for a 3,000 ft^2 commercial greenhouse (30' wide x 100' long) cost about $3,000, and three people can put one up in one day, starting from scratch, with no foundation. These components would make 4 2-story lean-to sunspaces for conventional houses, each 50 feet long, ie 4 sunspaces 8' wide x 50' long x 16' high, each having 800 ft^2 of glazed area. About a dollar per square foot of glazing. >>May I make one suggestion??? >> >>INSULATE that building NOW!!!!!!!! Good suggestion. Plug up some of the air leaks, etc. Solar closets and sunspaces get to be very large on a house with average or worse levels of insulation and air infiltration... Here's a more reasonable application: I have J. D. Ned Nisson and Gautam Dutt's 1985 John Wiley & Sons, Inc., _Superinsulated Home Book_ in front of me, and on page 57-58 they calculate the total house heat loss coefficient for a 40' x 50' rectangular house with 8' ceilings and no basement. The walls of their house are R30, the ceiling is R60. The total window area is 12% of the floor area and the windows have an R-value of 2.8. Two R10 doors have an area of 42 ft^2. Infiltration is 0.05 ACH (extremely tight), and a ventilation system with an air-air heat exchanger supplies an additional 0.45 ACH with 70% heat recovery. This all comes out to 230 Btu/F or 67 watts/F. They suggest that 2,500 Btu/hour (about 700 watts) is a good estimate for intrinsic heat, ie internal heat generation. If it is 70F inside and 30F outside, Nisson/Dutt's house would use (230 Btu/F x (70-30) - 2500 Btu/hr) x 24 = 160 K Btu/day, with no sun. On pages 59-60, Nisson and Dutt calculate that their example house will gain another 100K Btu/day of solar heat through the windows on an average day in January in New York City. This reduces the average net heat load of the house to 60K Btu/average winter day, with some sun. Gary's furnace would have to run 13 minutes a day to heat this house on an average January day. Bear in mind that this is a _superinsulated_ house, by 1985 standards. Some people (eg William Shurcliff) say that once you have a superinsulated house, you might as well forget about spending any more money on solar heating, because the yearly fuel bill is so low. But it's nice to use zero fossil fuel, and superinsulation does not heat water. >You're not paying attention. There's a lot of that going around :-) >My furnace is rated at 275,000 BTU/hr. >Of course it doesn't run all the time. How often does it run? How much oil a year do you actually use? >All I'm noting is that the seemingly monster 594,000 BTU of storage If this is the 16' monster cube, it holds 10,530,000 Btu, not 594,000. >is really chicken feed, replaceable by 2 hours running time on my furnace. Or 38 hours of your furnace running full blast, with the 16' monster. Over a hundred gallons of oil. Was the 594K Btu the 8'monster? Perhaps your house needs a bigger monster. >I have need of 2160 heating hours a year in this climate, which is modest >compared to the North. Agreed... Now how much oil do you use in a season? Tell me that, and we can size your sunspace. >Now the furnace is a demand system, and only runs >when the house temperature drops, but it certainly runs more than >2 hours a day total, so the little water closet is insufficient. Perhaps you need a bigger WC, when the sun is not shining. But the closet size has little to do with the size of the sunspace. >That's particularly true when you realize that it is starting at >a small delta T I figure the closet water starts out at a steady-state temperature of 130 F, after a string of average days, with some sun, and the house air is 70 F, ie the delta T is 50 F to start with. >and that delta is declining as heat is extracted, making the heat >extraction slower and slower so that you really can't get all that >heat back into room air in a reasonable on demand fashion. In the useful stored heat calc above, I figured the final closet temp as 80 F, ie a final delta T of 10 F. Now suppose the hot water is stored in 245 sealed $5 55 gallon drums, each having a surface area of 25 ft^2, and suppose the slowly moving air in the closet makes an R-value at the drum surface of 2/3 ft^2-Btu/F. Then with a 10 F delta T and a large airflow volume, the heat transfer rate will be (80F-70F) x 245 drums x 25 ft^2/drum /R=0.666 = 92K Btu/hour, so at the end of its discharge life, this closet could supply in one hour, roughly the same amount of heat that Nisson and Dutt's house used in a whole day, but at the end of its discharge life, it can only supply heat at 1/3 the rate of a 275K Btu/hour furnace... Not a high enough rate? OK, suppose we use 2 liter soda bottles instead of 55 gallon drums. These have an area of about 1 ft^2/bottle, and a 16' monster cube closet would contain about 50,000 of them, costing 10 cents each, if new, stacked up in the hard plastic boxes that cost $2 each, the ones you see stacked in the aisles of supermarkets. This monster would be a more efficient solar collector, and at the end of its discharge life, it would have a heat transfer rate of about (80F-70F) x 50,000 bottles x 1 ft^2/bottle/R=0.666 = 750K Btu/hour, ie it could crank out heat at 3 times the rate of the 275K Btu/hour furnace, at the end of its discharge life. If we say that the end of the closet's discharge life occurs at 100 F, it could replace 9 of those furnaces, in terms of heat transfer rate. If we made the closet air velocity 10 mph, (ie 880 fpm) and the bottles had a rough surface, the R value would decrease to 1/(2+v/2), ie 1/7, and at 100F, we could replace 42 of those furnaces. (We should also check how much airflow volume is needed for heat transfer.) >Now a *large* thermal mass would do better, of course... Hmmm, *large*... There's a lot of empty space in the middle of that new administration center in Paris... :-) A solar closet L' on a side takes about L^2 days to cool to 70 F, with no sun and no other heat load, in 32 F air. A hundred foot cube would take about 10,000 days to cool, ie 27 years with no sun, at 32 F. A mini ice-age. It seems to me that the critical thing is the heat transfer rate, not the amount of thermal mass, since the closet only supplies heat to the house when the sun is NOT shining. In sunny times, the sunspace heats the house. >but even it won't supply *days* of even heat as was claimed for >the little water closet. Are we talking little monsters or big monsters now? It is not hard to calculate how many days of heat a given closet can supply, if you know the thermal characteristics of the house, or your yearly heating bill. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David C. Olson" Subject: Remove from list In-Reply-To: <56979.tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl> Please remove my address/name from the list GEODESIC@UBVM. CC.BUFFALO.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:37:26 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Larger solar closets La Defense (is that the name of the empty cube in Paris?) looks to be about 500' tall, from a picture. If we filled the space inside with containers of water, and insulated the front and back faces, and added a passive solar air heater on the south face, we would have a solar closet that would take about 500^2 = 250,000 days, ie 685 years to cool to 70 F, with no sun, in 32 F air. If the earth were a solar closet, it would take about 5 trillion years to cool to 70 F. Of course the inside is molten rock, not hot water. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:45:08 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: water closets you did mention air-to-air heat-exchangers, andthose are absolutely essential to any super-insulated house, including a retrofit!... indoor levels of pollution are routinely (i.e.almost always, as you'd think, after a moment) a lot worse than outdoor's, from cooking, breathing, farting etc. I'd suggest the book, _Passive Annual Heat Storage_ by John Hait, for the penultimate discussion of the suburban single-story ideal. ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 04:24:53 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gobbet Hofman Organization: Netcom Subject: WWW for GIS/GPS/Remote Sensing GeoWeb databases have over thousand of records which contains GIS/GPS/RS company and user contact info. You can easily query the databases using GeoWeb Search Engine by : - Company Name - Area Code - Geographic Location (Country, State, City) Job opening news is available on this site and posting job opening news to GeoWeb is FREE. Product news related to GIS/GPS/RS is also available on this site. The home page address is: http://www.ggrweb.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:35:00 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brendan A. Niemira" Organization: Michigan State University Subject: Re: Larger solar closets In Article <45d7rm$944@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu> "nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine)" says: > La Defense (is that the name of the empty cube in Paris?) looks to be about > 500' tall, from a picture. If we filled the space inside with containers of > water, and insulated the front and back faces, and added a passive solar air > heater on the south face, we would have a solar closet that would take about > 500^2 = 250,000 days, ie 685 years to cool to 70 F, with no sun, in 32 F air. > > If the earth were a solar closet, it would take about 5 trillion years > to cool to 70 F. Of course the inside is molten rock, not hot water. > > Nick Ah, but in addition to the heat input from solar light impacting, there is also the heat input from radioctive decay within the earth. As if you were to put a soldering iron inside one of your smaller solar closets, eh? Keep up the good work, Nick. You've already convinced me to add a solar closet to my house... when I get a house. :-( ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Brendan A. Niemira v3.1: GS d- s+:+ a- c++@ U-- P? L E? Dept. Botany and Plant Path. W-(--) N++(+++) o+ K--- w O? M-- V? Michigan State University PS+ PE(++) Y+ PGP t+++ 5 X++>++++ R niemirab@pilot.msu.edu tv b+++ DI D+ G e++++ h--- r+++ y+++ All opinions expressed are entirely my own. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 19:15:35 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Keith A. Gum 904-628-2953" Subject: Dome I would like to subscribe to this list. Please forward details. Thank you. Keith ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 17:02:10 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: specialization > >I am really intrested in finding out how can an average >person study different area in a coherent way, may be >one can find out some solution, > >one way to think of specialization is to think of the >unvirsity campus. there one can see real division, and feel >the strong clashes between terratories. does the divison come from >the buildings and the way they are set out, the equipment they >use, the arrangment of the labs( which oveall are enclosed in >cubic building as if mathmatics and old phyiscs have made the >bottom layer of thier paradigm, enclouser which is quite >restraint, in the very setting there are inscriptions >of canons) or does it also have another level. > > this tension is encountered in the way we think, in general > crossing is quite messy and bound to tensional clashes > that may mean that there must be another way of looking > to bring the language, the labs, and other divisons > together. mostly the problem is the way we think. > > i reflect times about this subject, and few ideas come > here and there but no solution. i am thinking of big > roll of film and i am asking myself what should > be the begning of the film, or the story (film here represents > comprehensive learning). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:27:09 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: administration email address for this list? What is the administration email address for this list? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 18:55:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Arnt Karlsen Organization: Hogskolen i Stavanger Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings In article <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) writes: > Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? > > Nick > ..anywhere light bulbs are sold; buy one (or more as required), break it (the glass), and voila; ze tungsten wire ! ;)... ..KR f Arnt ..and, yeah, the standard disclaimer, ahem: " These original, innovative, eccentric and possibly patentable ideas and opinions expressed here are my exclusive property." ..og, javisst, standard disclaimeren, hrmhrm: " Disse originale, innovative, eksentriske og muligens patenterbare ideer og oppfatninger som uttrykkes her er min ekslusive eiendom." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 19:50:52 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles Reese Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings arnt@hsr.no (Arnt Karlsen) wrote: >In article <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) writes: > >> Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? >> >> Nick >> >..anywhere light bulbs are sold; buy one (or more as required), break it (the glass), >and voila; ze tungsten wire ! ;)... > >..KR f Arnt > >..and, yeah, the standard disclaimer, ahem: " These original, innovative, eccentric and possibly patentable ideas and opinions expr= essed here are my exclusive property." > >..og, javisst, standard disclaimeren, hrmhrm: " Disse originale, innovative, eksentriske og muligens patenterbare ideer og oppfatni= nger som uttrykkes her er min ekslusive eiendom." > Note that tungsten is very easly oxidized, so don't heat it in air. If you want something to heat in air you might try platinum wire. It won't take quite as much heat as the W but it is pretty resistant to oxidation. Cheers Charlie Reese ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 21:06:30 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Unsubscribe Unsubscribe >>In article <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick >Pine) writes: >> >>> Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? >>> >>> Nick >>> >>..anywhere light bulbs are sold; buy one (or more as required), break it (the >glass), >>and voila; ze tungsten wire ! ;)... >> >>..KR f Arnt >> >>..and, yeah, the standard disclaimer, ahem: " These original, innovative, >eccentric and possibly patentable ideas and opinions expressed here are my exclusive property." >> >>..og, javisst, standard disclaimeren, hrmhrm: " Disse originale, innovative, >eksentriske og muligens patenterbare ideer og oppfatninger som uttrykkes her er min ekslusive eiendom." >> > >Note that tungsten is very easly oxidized, so don't heat it in air. If >you want something to heat in air you might try platinum wire. It won't >take quite as much heat as the W but it is pretty resistant to oxidation. > >Cheers >Charlie Reese > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 21:41:06 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: Re: newbie Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the dome. The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. The resultant is a cool stream of air for the inside top of the dome downward toward the floor. RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. I have yet to replicate this condition. You're a thermo wiz... What do you think ? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 22:39:01 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Re: newbie >Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the >dome. The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. >Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. The resultant is a cool stream >of air for the inside top of the dome downward toward the floor. > RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. >I have yet to replicate this condition. >You're a thermo wiz... >What do you think ? > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 07:21:11 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: newbie Anthony Kalenak wrote: >Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the dome. I can imagine that happening. >The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. OK. Like this, on a hot, calm day? up up up cw i ccw up . n . up . . up . d . up . cw o ccw . . vortex w vortex . => <== out / n \ out ==> <= ........................................ >Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. Hmmm... Let's see: PV = NRT. Perhaps you could live in a slight vacuum and reduce the air temperature by 10 degrees F this way, from say, 90 to 80, by reducing the pressure inside by about 2%, ie (1-(460+80F)/(460+90F)) x l4.6 psia = .265 psi or 38 pounds per square foot. Hmmm... A concrete dome might not collapse, but it seems unlikely you could achieve that kind of vacuum by solar thermal wind alone... What kind of air velocity would result inside the dome? Where are the orifice formulas when you need them? Would you need seatbelts and safety harnasses and velcro shoes and really good hairspray? >The resultant is a cool stream of air for the inside top of the dome >downward toward the floor. Well, a little cooler, maybe. The air inside would feel cooler, because it would be moving. U = 2 + v/2 Btu/ft^2/hr, for an air film near a rough surface with an airspeed of v mph. >RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. Did he mention what the temperature differences were? >I have yet to replicate this condition. Perhaps you are lucky :-) >What do you think ? I think it might be nice to put some ventilation holes in those places, and the airflow would make things feel cooler inside on some days, but perhaps it would be better to leave the vents closed during the day, and open them at night to allow air to flow out the top, inside a foam/concrete dome. Pity to waste all that solar heat, tho. Mebbie it can be stored somehow to help that nightime airflow and dehumidification happen... Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 11:35:56 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Re: newbie >Anthony Kalenak wrote: > >>Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >>and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >>surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the dome. > >I can imagine that happening. > >>The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >>base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. > >OK. Like this, on a hot, calm day? > up > > up up > > cw i ccw > up . n . up > . . > up . d . up > . cw o ccw . > . vortex w vortex . >=> <== out / n \ out ==> <= >........................................ > >>Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. > >Hmmm... Let's see: PV = NRT. Perhaps you could live in a slight vacuum and >reduce the air temperature by 10 degrees F this way, from say, 90 to 80, >by reducing the pressure inside by about 2%, ie > >(1-(460+80F)/(460+90F)) x l4.6 psia = .265 psi or 38 pounds per square foot. > >Hmmm... A concrete dome might not collapse, but it seems unlikely you could >achieve that kind of vacuum by solar thermal wind alone... What kind of air >velocity would result inside the dome? Where are the orifice formulas when >you need them? Would you need seatbelts and safety harnasses and velcro shoes >and really good hairspray? > >>The resultant is a cool stream of air for the inside top of the dome >>downward toward the floor. > >Well, a little cooler, maybe. The air inside would feel cooler, because >it would be moving. U = 2 + v/2 Btu/ft^2/hr, for an air film near a rough >surface with an airspeed of v mph. > >>RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. > >Did he mention what the temperature differences were? > >>I have yet to replicate this condition. > >Perhaps you are lucky :-) > >>What do you think ? > >I think it might be nice to put some ventilation holes in those places, and >the airflow would make things feel cooler inside on some days, but perhaps >it would be better to leave the vents closed during the day, and open them >at night to allow air to flow out the top, inside a foam/concrete dome. >Pity to waste all that solar heat, tho. Mebbie it can be stored somehow >to help that nightime airflow and dehumidification happen... > >Nick > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 20:54:56 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ross Keatinge Organization: Cellnet Mobile Services Ltd Subject: Re: newbie amklnk@nyc.pipeline.com (Anthony Kalenak) wrote: >Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the >dome. The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. >Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. The resultant is a cool stream >of air for the inside top of the dome downward toward the floor. > RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. >I have yet to replicate this condition. >You're a thermo wiz... >What do you think ? This reminds me of a true story in a New Zealand dome building book. A newly built dome house was inspected by the city building inspectors. They insisted that for ventilation it needed a fan inside near the top of the dome. Despite protests from the builders they were unmoved and refused to certify the building until it was done so reluctantly it was installed. It spun around nicely... *without* the electricity being turned on. :-) Ross Keatinge Auckland, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:01:34 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Domes does plastic dome exist? you can close a box with cover, or a camera lense tightly, I was wondering if you can use that idea to cover a dome with lids which atomatically keep the rain out. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 11:41:35 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: newbie >Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the >dome. The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. >Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. The resultant is a cool stream >of air for the inside top of the dome downward toward the floor. > RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. >I have yet to replicate this condition. >You're a thermo wiz... >What do you think ? Anyone who claims to be a "thermo wiz", is, by definition, no such thing. Thermodynamics is a humbling area for all who wander through the field, therefore, the "wiz(zes)" KNOW that they are very inadequate to the task of turning theory (easy) into practice (very hard). Many things that work on paper, and in test environments don't work at all in "the field". Many things that happen to work in the field are "marginal" when studied and subjected to analysis. Recall that important work was done in this field by people who happened to be right, but for the wrong reason. Nicolas-Leonard-Sadi Carnot (1796-1832), for example, had this belief in a "fluid" called the "caloric"... that there is NO SUCH THING made no difference to the end result, which was some very good and very useful math that works well. To this day, engineering students are taught about the Carnot Cycle, and Carnot can be trotted out to humiliate anyone who makes the error of suggesting a "perpetual-motion machine". If you accept that hot air rises relative to cold air (a safe wager), what Bucky said makes (limited) sense, subject to at least the following caveats: 1) Small openings at the top and large openings at the bottom are counter-intuitive, since the amount of air that would move through the system would be limited by the smaller of the two, hence making the larger openings "overkill". The larger openings of the two sets may be a "bad thing", given that they reduce the amount of insulated enclosure. 2) The outer surface of the dome will heat up in areas where the sunshine falls upon the dome. The adjacent air within the dome is therefore heated. If the dome were sealed, all the air in the dome would get warmer, but the air nearest the warmest surfaces would be warmest. 3) A reasonable breeze could upset the motion of air due to the heating cycle described above, and reverse the airflow. In fact, this is not such a bad deal, since a nice breeze is much more "cooling" than a slowly moving cycle that drops the temperature by, say 5 degrees. This is why a fan is such a nice thing - it cools nothing, but it moves the air around. I would guess, based upon some rough math, that even a mild breeze would "swamp out" the thermal-heat-rise breeze. Roof tubines are kinda fun, in that they exploit the breeze to create suction, and therefore increase the airflow. They never "swamp", but can cause problems in gale-force storms. (The flying house!! Oooooh - neat. I better call my intellectual property attorney quick!) 4) The math and modeling required to replicate or disprove the "passive solar dome airflow" concept is kinda messy. Fact is, the math would only prove things one way or the other for an over-simplified "ideal case", having little to do with a real dome. 5) Bucky's drawings and models show other methods of ventilation for his "metal pre-fab homes", as follows: 5a) The "turning rooftop wind-vane" ventilator in the 1946 "Wichita" Dymaxion House plans (part 108 in the patent diagrams) are described as an important factor in the ventilation of the house, and since the material and labor added by the ventilator are considerable, one is forced to conclude that Bucky could not make the airflow work without insuring that the outside airflow was dealt with. (Wichita was NOT a dome, however...) 5b) The 1928 4-D house was also certainly not a dome, but it included a "whole house fan" (parts 254-256 on his patent diagrams). These are a good idea for ANY house. 5c) The Dymaxion Deployment Unit also had a "passive vent" at the peak, but an electric fan is shown in the diagrams (item 73 in the patent application) as an integral part of the vent design. 6) Given the large number of domes built to date, one presumes that "passive airflow", if practical, would be a major selling point for the structure concept. So far, no one has made any such claims. (Dome vendors and kit vendors that monitor this list - TAKE NOTE! Prove it, and you have a major selling point!) Therefore, if passive airflow was enough to do the job, we would hear of it (unless no one has the gumption to even try, since cutting holes in one's house is rather scary). It would seem that the "rules" are the same, and that the unique shape of the geodesic dome is a marginal, if any, improvement over any other structure shape. I, therefore, would go long in the stock of the Hunter Fan company... Buy and hold. Growth market. Star Products. Good name-brand values. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 22:23:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ian Tresman Organization: Knowledge Computing Subject: Announcement: Global geographical data The Global Gazetteer is a file of over 750,000 place names throughout the world enriched with additional geographic and statistical data. It is believed to be one of the larget and most complete files of its type available, and unique in the way in which various data elements have been brought together. The Global Gazetteer is available in 3 main formats: As a dBase .DBF file, ASCII file (comma separated), PICK T-DUMP. Details from: ALLM Systems & Marketing http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/geodata/ email: apritchard@cix.compulink.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 23:35:28 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: Re: newbie Let me refer you to "Critical Path" pg. 210. Fuller states the principle I quoted and said this has been proven in domes in equatorial Africa. You can point out many reasons why something shouldn't work. The proof in in the experimentation. Bucky say this worked. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 09:18:51 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Domes and Vents (was "newbie") Anthony Kalenak stated flatly: >Let me refer you to "Critical Path" pg. 210. >Fuller states the principle I quoted >and said this has been proven in domes in equatorial Africa. yeah, but Bucky said lots of stuff that was not quite 100% true in his "train-of-thought that often leaves the tracks" style of speaking and writing. >You can point out many reasons why something shouldn't work. Shouldn't, couldn't, wouldn't, wont. It will not work in a boat, It will not work on a goat. It will not work with green eggs and ham, I'm an engineer, so dogmatic I am! >The proof in in the experimentation. Yeah, and Bucky's statement in regards to at least his metal pre-fab houses was clearly false. None of his (known) designs show or even mention such a feature. It would seem that the DISproof was in Bucky's own experiments. >Bucky say this worked. And it WILL work, but ONLY on a very calm day with nice (ideal) factors, like cool temps in the morning, and an even heating curve from cool to hot to cool again in the evening. Sadly, ideal factors are what make wind-turbines and sterling steam engines look so great on paper, and so problematic in the lab and field. The problem is that this sort of stuff is EXACTLY what gives the entire non-traditional (domes, solar, earth-bermed, et al) approaches to living a bad name. Bucky often went into "blue-sky" mode in his speeches and writings. Good for him! What is needed is an "Annotated Bucky" (maybe we could do one of these someday) that clearly labels the timeframe and context of things, thus showing the initial insight, the later attempts, and the resulting implementation. This would clear up many misunderstandings, since I am sure that if we compare "Blue-Sky" to actual hardware, we will see that most of the concepts went SOMEWHERE, which is better than most of the R&D labs that have ever been. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 19:31:23 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: generalization quatation from the teaching of chimstry and physics "when a generallization has been stated it will find immediate application. frequently some little time will have to be devoted to making the application plain. for example, the law of conservation of matter finds illustration in the results of raising the same crop on the same piece of land year after year. if the product is one which is cut and carried off entirely the constituents of the soil which are essential parts of the food of the plant are effectually removed. anylysis of the soil and the plant show at once what stock of plant food is avialble, and how long it will last. the use of ferilizers and other expedients replaces or bring withn reach of the plant food the phosphates, for example, which are indispensable to its growth. if it is the law of definite propotions which is under discussion, illustration are abundant. in its absence we could not regulate the heating of our houses, becuse with the same draft and supply of oxygen the combusion would be more fierce at some times than at others;.... Just thinking...... if it is that easy to find application of a generalization!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 17:16:23 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Walt Lockley Subject: 'Annotated Bucky' The redoubtable James Fischer wrote: >Bucky say this worked. And it WILL work, but ONLY on a very calm day with nice (ideal) factors, like cool temps in the morning, and an even heating curve from cool to hot to cool again in the evening. Sadly, ideal factors are what make wind-turbines and sterling steam engines look so great on paper, and so problematic in the lab and field. The problem is that this sort of stuff is EXACTLY what gives the entire non-traditional (domes, solar, earth-bermed, et al) approaches to living a bad name. Bucky often went into "blue-sky" mode in his speeches and writings. Good for him! What is needed is an "Annotated Bucky" (maybe we could do one of these someday) that clearly labels the timeframe and context of things, thus showing the initial insight, the later attempts, and the resulting implementation. This would clear up many misunderstandings, since I am sure that if we compare "Blue-Sky" to actual hardware, we will see that most of the concepts went SOMEWHERE, which is better than most of the R&D labs that have ever been. --------------------------------------------------------- Quite right. All very nice to point to Bucky as a role model. There's nothing wrong with being inspired by his example. I would guess that everybody on this list have been inspired by him one way or another. But if these concepts don't work, Bucky becomes less of an Edison sort of inspiration and more like a Gene Roddenberry sort of inspiration. I'd LOVE to see an Annotated Bucky sort of document which would examine maybe five of Bucky's ideas against the traditional wisdom, the known facts, the experimental results. Maybe there's some of this in Jay Baldwin's upcoming book. I hope so. And if not, maybe this is the best venue to develop such a thing. Or is it more fun to just speculate? Walt klockley@delphi.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 19:56:30 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Some information out to the WW1 the army used only rifels france is the only country which used rockets to shoot german zappline(or was it ballons) 19c marchant were completelly cosmoplitain traded and migrated all over the world. the U.s built 200 bases in two years during the WW2 A. Nobel was intrested in making rockets, saw the danger of explosive, had stockes in his brother russian rail company. Crystlar around the 20 or 30 bought a car took it apart put it back again was it 500 hundred dollars which was the only money he had and started the car company Crystlar. in the 1950 black person was sold for 20 sterling in WW2 the atumobil factries in th Us changed into producing parts for dirplanes ( the smart man was Rottar) the smal barell which army carried every where inWW2 was invented in the same period. 100 oil business men conducted the secondWAR G.Bush was a presedent of an oil company today there 50 million computer sold every year Us and Japan produce from 10 to 15 million automobil each. New york city 100,000 ton of horse shit produced by horse every year, some thought bretty soon the whole country would be covered......( the enviromentally minded) Nano tech can produce everything we need costing the price of fire wood (MIT ) 1965 break of the 150,000 ton tanker limit, which now can carry 500,000 tons 1/2 of the cargo of international trade is hydrocarbons. the cost of minerals in international trade 1950 was 40 billion dollar. in 19&0s Onasis mad his fortune through buying second hand ships if i remmber right left over from second war. there were 40 billion dollars in the banks in Europe they did not know what to do it, which they lend to shipping companies. sorry these what i still somewhat remmber, it can give general idea the figures are close. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 20:07:20 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' Walt (klockley@delphi.com) said: >The redoubtable James Fischer wrote: ...that's "Doubtable", pardner... [9mm semi-automatic snippers used here] >> Bucky often went into "blue-sky" mode in his >> speeches and writings. Good for him! What >> is needed is an "Annotated Bucky" (maybe we >> could do one of these someday) that clearly >> labels the timeframe and context of things, >> thus showing the initial insight, the later >> attempts, and the resulting implementation. >> >> This would clear up many misunderstandings, >> since I am sure that if we compare "Blue-Sky" >> to actual hardware, we will see that most of >> the concepts went SOMEWHERE, which is better >> than most of the R&D labs that have ever been. >> >--------------------------------------------------------- > >But if these concepts don't work, Bucky becomes less of an >Edison sort of inspiration and more like a Gene Roddenberry sort >of inspiration. Not true. The concepts must be beaten upon, and beaten hard and long, so that the ones that survive the process can make a real difference. Edison was part of the PROBLEM (mostly useless consumer garbage developed to separate the weathly of the time from some of their dollars), Bucky tried to be part of the solution. No one wants half-baked implementations to be their legacy, so I am sure that Bucky would support some hard-nosed evaluation of the practicality of this or that. Given that none of us can afford custom tooling for integrated aircraft-like modular housing, we are left with a number of unexploited neat concepts to test and work upon. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 19:09:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Design Science and the Internet Comments: To: Jimoriset@aol.com At 12:50 PM 10/18/95 -0400, Jimoriset@aol.com wrote: >Dear Kirby, > >I wonder if you'd be willing to answer a few questions about www, and steer >me to a good source for more information? > >Although I've felt kind of burned out on BBS's, I must admit I am, somewhat >cautiously, fascinated by what's happening on the Internet, home pages, etc. > >Questions: > >How does the Internet work? Is it truly a centerless network? How large can >it grow, and still work - is it like a geodesic, which Bucky says, being a >tension structure, could be of unlimited size? I'd say pretty centerless, since "anyone" can go out and buy and computer and hook it up to the net. >Does a Home Page require a dedicated server? You offered to set up a home >page for me, which I assume would be on your server connected to your >Internet provider. Would all updating of such a page have to be done by you, >not something I could do from wherever I am? Best if pages can be served around the clock, meaning dedicated. In my case, I'm the only one allowed to access the disk area containing files associated with my account. I did put a very modest page together whereby some of your wares could be offered to the community. http://www.teleport.com/jmo_gall.html. I call these 'preview galleries' (samplers), not home pages. >Does your Internet provider allow you access at speeds greater than 28800? My provider does (has a T1 hookup, which is very fast), but my modem doesn't. Difficult for an ordinary home user to go above 28.8. A dedicated web server probably should be able to serve faster, but a low usage one can get by at 28.8. >I am impressed by the graphics on home pages as viewed on my Mac using AOL >and it's Browser. But several www addresses were not available thru AOL. Can >you cruise the net freely and quickly? More important, what is the quality of >the communications you find yourself engaging in on the Net? The Web is not very interactive. Passive viewing of pages mostly. Need to distinguish between Web and other internet services, e.g. newsgroups, email lists. Technology is not the limiting factor when it comes to quality. >I have heard that Internet was originally set up by the US government for use >by educational institutions etc. Set up by Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) for the military. Decentralized design for withstanding thermonuclear attack. >Can the government, CIA, etc pull the plug on Internet? Has it become a truly >democratic network, with no 'kingpin' centers to target or corrupt? I.e., in a >geodesic, if one hub is knocked out, the whole structure does not collapse, >the load is taken up by the rest of the structure. The government can target individual providers of content. The FBI breaks into your house or office and impounds your computer. So far, this is directed against child pornographers and probably drug dealers. So far. Legislation keeps coming up which would curtail content more broadly, always in the name of ordinary decency and protecting our children, always with a dangerous and insidious dark side. No need to pull the plug on the internet when you can still target individuals. The fear is not of some government plug pulling, but of creeping privatization, meaning toll meters appearing left and right and the wealth of free downloadable materials and software drying up, as commercialization, and its contrary values and culture (contrary to academia, government etc.) impose a regime of 'making expensive by making (artificially) scarce.' In technological terms, bandwidth and growth is not a problem. We have a surplus and the design anticipates many more users and much higher average speeds. >How like this is the Internet? That is, how democratic, >synergetic, hardy is the Internet? ..and what is its future likely to be? Is >the sudden influx of users going to clog or weaken the network, or will it >strengthen it, as would be the case with raising the frequency (number of >hubs) of a geodesic? The demographics of internet users will show that people of meager means, less access to education and high paying jobs (disproportionately women, members of various ethnic groups) do not have equal access. Without government/private initiative to actively provide access and infrastructure among the have nots, the internet will likely remain a province of the elite, further widening the gap between the wired and unwired. The ranks of homeless will be joined by the homepageless. Internet is not entirely anarchic, obviously since its technology has to remain intercompatible in large degree. The consensus needed is mostly focused around questions of design. I link the internet to Fuller in that it is a paradigm example of what Fuller meant by 'artifact'. Far right and far left content is equally accessible. People with very different religious, political etc. outlooks use it spontaneously, because it is a useful design. The way in which the internet is revolutionizing our life and culture is the way in which Fuller envisioned the design science revolution taking place in general, e.g. precessionally. >What is a good source of information on all this? (beside you and RLO?) The internet itself is the best source of information on the internet. >Best regards, > >Jim > >P.S. Do you have RLO's email address? > I don't think RLO will mind if I foward his latest news. >From: rlo@netcom.com (Robert Orenstein) >To: pdx4d@teleport.com >Subject: Jobs > >I've taken my first full-time job in ten years! I'm working for a >company called Glyphic; I'm the second employee; we make a new >programming language that's sort of a cross between HyperCard and >SmallTalk. > >It's all pretty cool. > >How are you doing? > >Robert ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 06:38:17 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: newbie James Fischer wrote: > Therefore, if passive airflow was enough to do the job, we would > hear of it (unless no one has the gumption to even try, since > cutting holes in one's house is rather scary). It would seem > that the "rules" are the same, and that the unique shape of the > geodesic dome is a marginal, if any, improvement over any > other structure shape. James Baldwin (author of upcoming Bucky Works publ. Wiley) says he's built domes in the Arizona desert that got so cold inside he'd have to get out in the sun to warm up. Seems like there's plenty of anecdotal evidence to bolster Bucky's claim. I don't think academia has spent nearly enough time/energy studying the structures be in a position to dismiss or confirm. Something about a sphere having the least surface to enclosed volume ratio would likely have a bearing on its possibly 'special' thermo properties. Kirby ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 06:55:28 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Generalized principle mohamed tagdi wrote: > Is this a generalized principle? > In any geodesic structure the distance between any two vertical >buildings at the top will alawys be more than the distance on the ground. >M.Tagdi I'd say, as expressed, no, because a 'building' is a special-case concept. Also 'geodesic structure' has not been defined. You're thinking of the sphere, and Fuller's observation that the World Trade Center towers are some inches further apart at the top because they're on respective radii from the Earth's center out towards the stars (a different star for each). With suspension bridges, it's even clearer, because the span between them is greater. Because of the curvature of the earth, such supposedly 'parallel' structures are not parallel at all. Fuller liked to cite such examples to break the hold of the flat-earth metaphor. Tho we all know the world is round, we still suffer from old habits, picturing an xy plane of checkerboard squares stretching to infinity, with all the vertical structures standing orthogonal to the checker board, and parallel to each other. This is the rectilinear universe stretching to infinity. This is *not* the real world that we live in. But a 'building' need not be a skyscraper or suspension bridge tower. It may be designed to lean or bend, such that it even touches the building next to it towards the top -- think of half an arch meeting the other half. So, again, as phrased, your sentence can only be given a special-case meaning (which I have here attempted to provide). Kirby ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:03:58 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: a definition of Univers tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: >I am sort of not happy by Fuller definition of Univese becuse it seems >not to effect me much, so i thought perhaps the language is not >intimate and therefor stays a bit remote. the definiton is quite >accurte to my best of knowldge. So i thought >perhaps we should start from not to well defined, or imperfect definition >and improve it step by step, and use other words which perhaps gives little > of the feeling that he tried to impart. do not mind me if I did not >take much time to think, and forgive me if i make stupid mistakes as >i always do (haha). I like your focus on Universe as interweaving stories. This is certainly what Fuller had in mind with his oft repeated phrase 'partially overlapping scenarios'. But he seemed to put humans at the centers of these stories, as the subjective experience communicators -- the stories are told or related, even if simply to oneself. This viewpoint is in contrast to the 'eye of God' view traditionally imparted, where we are given views of the universe that humans could not possibly have, such as of the Big Bang (a false picture if seen as an expanding sphere from outside, since no outside viewpoint from which to view the Big Bang makes sense, mainly because outside viewpoints are not defined). Of course we can make up stories in which the Big Bang appears as a cartoon experience, and relay that as information, thereby adding to Universe as a collection of partially overlapping stories, many of which contain fictitious or fabricated events. In the following post, I will share a longish essay on Fuller's definition of Universe excerpted from a web page by Bill Peay. Perhaps Bill's essay will prompt further useful discussion. Kirby ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:07:09 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: a definition of Univers Tagdi -- This essay by Bill, and my previous post (have you seen it?) are continuing your thread re Fuller's definition of Universe. Below: article from http://hoohana.aloha.net/~billpeay/TECHT07.html Apologies for the word wrap problems. I don't have the time to reformat. Kirby Tech Time Article: "The Universe is the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated nonsimultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences." That quote comes from R. Buckminster Fuller in his book Synergetics. I thought he was nuts. The first time I read that quote, and reread it, and reread it, it just didn't make sense. But that was back in 1975. Synergetics was a little understood concept back then. That one sentence, that all encompassing statement, defines the underlying repercussions of the evolving Information Industry. Within its carefully crafted words lies the power of common consciousness. Among those 126 letters is the reasoning and understanding of the boundaries of the human species, and within it, the limits of our knowledge. As a credo, it may well be the battle cry of tomorrow's children as the whole world embellishes the definition with understanding and achieves global peace. So what does it really say? Bucky's view looks at the size of the universe from the perspective of human perception, instead of its actual physical size. Basically he is saying that if you took everything you knew about anything, and matched it up with what everyone else on earth knows about anything, then the sum total of everything everyone knows about anything at all would be contained in that complete set of human knowledge. So if you want to know how big the universe is, it's only as big as the furthest distance any individual human has ever been able to gaze in any direction, and no bigger. That's a lot different than saying it's really big and we just haven't seen how big it actually is yet. R. Buckminster's definition puts limits on everything. The smallest particle in the world is as small as the smallest one ever observed, and no smaller. The number of species on earth are only the number actually observed and documented by scientists, and no more. Of course, we know there are smaller particles and more unrecorded species, but they are not a part of our universe, the "human" universe. We have every confidence that our common universe is expanding daily as new discoveries are made, pushing the boundaries further out in all directions and in all fields. But the fact remains, that "Universe" is the aggregate of all humanity's experiences and nothing more. But wait, Mr. Fuller's definition has more words in it, and it is those intermediary words we want to focus on. "Consciously apprehended" experiences eliminate dreams and visions from direct knowledge of the known universe. Perhaps those dimensions of human thought are analogous to the fourth dimension in our physical counterpart definition, but here they are omitted from the boundary of the known human universe. "Nonsimultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences" reduces the knowledge of the universe to one common set. If we all saw the TV broadcast of the first footstep on the moon, it really need be only recorded once in the collective human consciousness record. Of course, for the people there on the moon, their experience was somewhat different than what we saw on TV, so a complete record would include the partially overlapping experiences of you, me, and them. Time figures into the common consciousness equation because the record of all our experiences depends on the elements which compose our common knowledge base spaced over different moments, even though they might be partially overlapping. The Rodney King beating videotape is a classic example of the nonsimultaneousness of our common consciousness. We all saw that footage at different times, yet we can clearly discuss the incident no matter when we actually saw it. Most importantly, we are all growing sociologically as a species because of it, as painful as that progress might seem at the time. There is one word left, and it is the most powerful word in the definition: "communicated." You see, all our history, all our individual experiences, when communicated, contribute to expanding the overlap of humanity's entire knowledge base. Until the introduction of telecommunications there had never been an opportunity for a single individual to penetrate the boundaries of mankind's knowledge so significantly. Soon, the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated nonsimultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences will be instantly within the reach of every technologically adapted person on the planet. You will be able to have immediate access to anything you want to know, and you will be able to access it instantly, whether it is coming to you on TV, radio, or via computer. Now you have been exposed to R. Buckminster Fuller's concept of humanity's Universe. In the years to come, this will be your universe too. The driving force behind a universal common consciousness is communications, and, because of geographical differences, that translates to telecommunications for Hawaii and the movement of vast amounts of information around our planet. Together we can accelerate mankind's efforts to achieve an understanding of cultural and social differences, to facilitate the mediation of political differences across geopolitical earth, and to harmonize peace, not through hearsay and speculation, but through true consciously apprehended experience sharing with each other. When I climb upon my weekly soapbox here and attempt to instill a financial motivation in your mind for joining into a tiny facet of the Information Industry, like FAX subscriptions by computer or profit sharing telephone calling cards, I would like you to know that there is deeper meaning to what I do, and what I hope you do, too. Yes, bringing a regular revenue stream into our tiny Island from the value added services of information processing is important. Each of us can make money, and in so doing, we can raise the quality of our already outstanding life on Kauai, but we have the potential to do so much more. Scratching out a living is one thing, but empowering the social development of the fabric of human consciousness can be quite rewarding in and of itself. Just remember this: Each and every time you help bring two or more lives together, each and every time you share a bit of yourself with others, each of those times you contribute to a fuller understanding of life for all of us. With communication comes understanding. With understanding comes respect and acceptance. When the history of mankind is written, you can bet it will have been the facilitators of communication who will have done the most to achieve global peace. Right now, right here, you have the unique opportunity to become one of those facilitators. All you have to do is reach out and try. ARTICLE COPYRIGHT 1995 - BILL PEAY ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:14:54 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner