From MAILER-DAEMON@netaxs.com Thu Nov 16 17:10:28 1995 Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [128.205.2.1]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA20646 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:06:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199511161806.NAA20646@access.netaxs.com> Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 6858; Thu, 16 Nov 95 13:05:25 EST Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3134; Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:04:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:04:29 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UBVM (1.8b)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9510" To: "Christopher J. Fearnley" Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 21:31:45 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Celestine Prophecy, what s the next step? Answer, the music album... Aloha! We are Sheryl Preston and Michael Beachwood. We have been composing music for over twenty years each, respectively, and for over 6 years together. We read Celestine Prophecy last spring and really felt a wake up call! Sheryl was inspired to compose an album about the nine insights. Just completed, we are beginning to spread the word and would appreciate your input and help in doing so. WE ARE SOMEWHAT NEW TO THE INTERNET AND ANY IDEAS THAT YOU HAVE AS TO GETTING THE MESSAGE OUT WOULD BE GREAT! Here is the information... ============================================ Celestine Prophecy... What's the next step? The music album! "Celestine Inspiration - Nine Songs For Nine Insights". The music captures the energy and the lyrics review the themes of each of the nine insights, in sequential order. All songs are written in an easy-listening-classical-pop style with the intent to capture the basic feeling of each chapter of the book, as well as to induce inspiration and spawn creativity. The lyrics give each insight in a nutshell, allowing the listener to grasp the messages easily and "carry a tune" along to light their way on the path of their destiny. This album is a fantastic way to review the insights! A most positive, uplifting experience. Please visit our homepage for more info http://www.maui.net/~pbm Email pbm@maui.net =========================================== OUR INTENTIONS: The universal language of music can help bring more change, more quickly. Music is more convenient to absorb, as one can be doing other things while listening. It's easier. Our objective is two-fold: [1] to appeal to the people who haven't read the book, to bring them the information, and [2] create more consciousness for those who have read the book, by reviewing the insights in a convenient way. The universal appeal of music and lyric can help to create a LARGER CRITICAL MASS in order to perpetuate the increase in frequency of our entire society. ============================================ Thanks for your time - we look forward to your input! Please visit our homepage, listed below! Michael Beachwood and Sheryl Preston Preston-Beachwood Music Box 1027 - Kula, Maui, HI 96790-1027 FAX 808 876 0482 E-mail pbm@maui.net HomePage http://www.maui.net/~pbm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 19:16:53 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Solar airships >hot air [note: you'd only want to park such a monster-collector, at any metropolitan center, after sunrise & leave before --oops-- sunsight !-) ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:21:31 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Geodesic Language 1.the earth is icos 10 to ~36 frequency layer redgid hurdling in vacuum(void) at 60,000 miles an hour around the sun. 2.All building are farther from each other at the top than at the botom. 3.It has been know that the earth moves around the sun befor the birth of christ. 4.Children like to understand the behaviour of group of events, they draw the moon and the sun together. 5.Everyone uses stairs to go out to higher floors. 6.Elevators go out and in. 7.He sunviews becuse of earth spin in. 8.He suneclips becuse of earth spin out. 9.Ridgidity is full of holes, holes are 99% of ridgds. 10.His mind is pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern of pattern. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 02:10:46 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Celestine Prophecy, what s the next step? uh-oh, I can't hear the music, no I-stereo -- what are the 9 steps, in ASCII ?!?... hello?... are you folks really reading this, or was that a Celestine Spamecy? ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:31:33 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robin van Spaandonk Organization: Improving Subject: Re: Solar airships In article <44gcut$2dq@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, Nick Pine wrote : [snip] >Or an envelope that is transparent on one half and black on the other, >if we can keep the transparent side aimed at the sun. > >Or an envelope that has one transparent side and one aluminized mylar side, >with a small, high-thermal-mass (eg black water balloon) target in the center, >surrounded by a small insulating transparent envelope, with the outside >balloon oriented so that the sun passes through the transparent side and >gets reflected and concentrated by the shiny side onto the black target. [snip] Just make the top half transparent, and the bottom half black on the inside, and silver on the outside. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:57:56 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: Solar airships Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >Just make the top half transparent, and the bottom half black on the >inside, and silver on the outside. Nice suggestion :-) A little water in the bottom, with a small pump or some sort of passive tracker to move it around from one pouch to another? Or maybe this should be a flying funnel, a sunscoop with a transparent top and shiny Compound Parabolic Concentrating conical sides... As for the dirigible floor lamp, would you say a dry cleaner bag with 150 F air from a bulb with a high power/weight ratio, or some very thin tungsten or nichrome wire, attached to two fine copper wire tethers? Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:14:51 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David F. Watkins" Subject: Re: Celestine Prophecy, what s the next step? In-Reply-To: On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Brian Hutchings wrote: > uh-oh, I can't hear the music, no I-stereo -- > what are the 9 steps, in ASCII ?!?... hello?... > are you folks really reading this, or was that a Celestine Spamecy? The spam merchants seem to be more active recently. If they continue to expand, mailing lists will probably need to develop some policies to make the practice counter-productive. Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:00:57 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Dirigible floor lamp musings If the balloon weighs 1 pound per 400 ft^2 (What do dry cleaner bags weigh?), with an R-value of 0.6 ft^2-F/Btu, and the inside air temperature is 175 F (will that melt the bag?), and the room air is 68 F, how big must it be to support itself? Sea level air at 175 F weighs 0.0625 lbs/ft^3, so 68 F air should weigh about 0.0752 lb/ft^3, ignoring humidity. The lifting force should be at least 0.0752 - 0.0625 = 0.0127 lbs/ft^3. An r' radius sphere would be self-supporting when 4 pi r^2/400 = 4/3 pi r^3 x 0.0127 ==> r = 3/(400 x 0.0127) = 1'. Keeping the air hot requires (175F-68F) x 4 pi 1^2 ft^2/R0.6 = 2241 Btu/hour or 657 watts. Too much, except for a sometime toy... Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:23:34 GMT Reply-To: littrox@richmond.infi.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles Troxell Organization: Lighting Images Technology, Inc. Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings In article <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) says: > > > >Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? > >Nick > This lamp and light source is already for sale in the US. Saw it at light fair as well as at the AEC show in Richmond. It's being touted with all sincerity as a viable source and is in particular good stead as as advertising bill board. Build away there, friend. But don't tread on some ones existing patent!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:58:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Martha Rubin Subject: newbie Hi - I'm a new member of this list, and intend with some luck to commence building of a geodesic dome in Oakland, CA in about 18-24 months. I have MANY specific questions about layout, but first have some general questions I wonder if any of you seasoned veterans may be able to help me with. 1. What are the pros and cons of a 3/8 vs. a 5/8 dome? 2. What are your comments about putting 8' riser walls under either? 3. What is the most economical floor plan layout? (I assume things like keeping the plumbing located as much in one place, both horizontally and vertically as possible, etc. But, as I'm a musician, rather than an architect, I'm sure there are other things I should be aware of. Thanks in advance, Martha Rubin nrubin@s1.csuhayward.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:21:37 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Celestine Prophecy - Nine Songs For Nine Insights Celestine Prophecy, the book by James Redfield, has inspired a music album, entitled, "Celestine Prophecy - Nine Songs For Nine Insights". Please see our homepage http://www.maui.net/~pbm or Email pbm@maui.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:38:32 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ross Alexander Organization: Athabasca University Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) writes: >Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? Well, you could open up a lightbulb. regards, Ross -- Ross Alexander, ve6pdq -- (403) 675 6311 -- rwa@cs.athabascau.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:34:36 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Celestine Prophecy Comments: To: rstout@maui.net Comments: cc: postmaster@maui.net Sirs: One of your users (pbm@maui.net) CONTINUES to spam our mailing list with a blantant sales pitch. So far we, and I presume many other mailing lists, have been attacked twice by this clueless spammer. Our mailing list - "The List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" (GEODESIC@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU) has nothing to do with music, therefore the ad for a new record is objectionable. Please educate and/or pull this user's plug. Refusal to cooperate will result in some big beefy guys from the Maui High Performance Computing Center paying a visit - maui.net will be "Here Today, Gone To Maui". Not to worry, you will be "Guam, But Not Forgotten". (Just kidding about the beefy guys, the guys and gals at MHPCC are all skinny little geeks. I just could not resist the puns.) james fischer Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort (BATTLE) ~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~ Bogus Spam Sent by pbm@maui.net Below ~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~ >Celestine Prophecy, the book by James Redfield, has inspired a music album, >entitled, "Celestine Prophecy - Nine Songs For Nine Insights". > >Please see our homepage http://www.maui.net/~pbm >or Email pbm@maui.net ~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~ End Bogus Spam Sent by pbm@maui.net ~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~ Make peace with your Enemy. With whom ELSE can you make peace? james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com The Information Supercollider Split infinitives, not atoms! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:23:46 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings >Nick Pine (nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu) asked: >>Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? and Ross Alexander (rwa@cs.athabascau.ca) replied: >Well, you could open up a lightbulb. How many lawyers does it TAKE to open a lightbulb? ...How many can you afford? Make peace with your Enemy. With whom ELSE can you make peace? james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com The Information Supercollider Split infinitives, not atoms! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:15:20 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: General principle the intelectual discovery of a law is removes the experience into a higher level, dividing reality into sense and idea. thinking is not machine like operation, it is verstile it not thinking when i sum up two figures together or when i day dream. Fuller ideas moves in and around many area of experience and abstract slides. would you consider the discovery of finger prints, and infering sikness from number of clues generalized principles? it seems that the word experience itself is generalized. time is a set (hour, day,year,past ,present future, successsion, simultaneity ect). If we wish to answer the abstract question: What is time? we shall have to determine the logical interconnections between this and related concepts.( from philosphy) if thinking is exclusion rather than inclusion, and if it is nonsimultaneous does this make for confused thinking? general most comon, usual. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:31:01 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Searfoss Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings In <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu> nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) writes: > >If the balloon weighs 1 pound per 400 ft^2 (What do dry cleaner bags weigh?) >Keeping the air hot requires > >(175F-68F) x 4 pi 1^2 ft^2/R0.6 = 2241 Btu/hour or 657 watts. > >Too much, except for a sometime toy... > >Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? > >Nick > This could be an interesting project, also an interesting hazard to aircraft. Might be hard for a turbine to swallow. could tangle or break a prop. Go thru a windshield...etc. Hang on to it.!!!! bye. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:40:12 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: digest fLUX-staff Subject: Re: newbie Hello Please keep me updated on how the dome is progressing. We plan to build one once the CD-series is completed. Keep in touch. Frank Rothkamm /\ / G \ /____\ ~~~~~fLUX_NYC~~~~~ ~~~~Box 2141~~~~ ~~~New York~~~ ~~ NY 10163~~ ---------- Dadua@aol.com 1-718-599-9377 fLUX/NYC is a label for sonic, symbolic & scriptural propaganda funded by the Hermetic Lodge 251. fLUXmailOrder $15.- (check or money order) made payable to ROTHKAMM. Send to: fLUX, Box 2141, New York, NY 10163 ----------------- cut here ------------------- Subj: DOME MANUFS Date: Tue, Aug 29, 1995 3:05 PM EDT From: joemoore@cruzio.com X-From: joemoore@cruzio.com (Joe Moore) To: Dadua@aol.com GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore May 26, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Summer 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: - American Ingenuity Verified: May 1995 8777 Holiday Springs Road ? Rockledge, FL 32955-5805 Tel: 407-639-8777 Fax: 407-639-8778 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Cascade Domes Verified: ? P.O. Box 1977 ? Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Domes America Verified: ? 6345 West Jolie Road ? Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: DomEstic Designs Verified: ? P.O. Box 4203 ? Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 893 Wilson Avenue Joe & Kevin Frawley St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos McCarter Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Wood kits Geodesic Domes & Homes Verified: ? 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Summer 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Bob Davies & Glenn Van Doren Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Hexadome Verified: Summer 1992 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Summer 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: - Key Dome Verified: 4-95 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Winter 92-3 P.O. Box 980427 Einar Thorstein Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: $19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Summer 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Space Domes Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, Dennis & Janet Johnson North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ? 999 Harrison Court Hal Klopp & Bruce Hamilton Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Linda Boothe Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pond-Brook Products Verified: ? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $34.95 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Semispheres Verified: ? 1505 Webster Street ? Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: ugly looking! Shelter Systems Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ? P.O. Box 400 ? Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $39.95 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Temcor Verified: ? 2825 Toledo Street Don Richter Torrance, CA 90503 Tel: Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Timberline Geodesics Verified: June 2, 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Topsider Homes Verified: ? P.O. Box 848 ? Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: 1994 One Penn Plaza New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Summer 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: - National Dome Council Verified: ? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 - DOME (magazine) Verified: Summer 1994 4401 Zepher Stret Donald R. Hoflin Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:42:36 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Copper > James Fischer >> >> How many lawyers does it TAKE to open a lightbulb? >> > they say invention is related to humor in some way. > who invented the copper wire? > > two dutch pulling on one guilder. > > M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:28:49 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Copper >> they say invention is related to humor in some way. >> who invented the copper wire? >> >> two dutch pulling on one guilder. >> WIRE you asking? Make peace with your Enemy. With whom ELSE can you make peace? james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com The Information Supercollider Split infinitives, not atoms! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 05:17:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Vhigbee Organization: Cal State Long Beach Subject: Re: Solar airships I've been playing with the idea of airships on small scales (mylar models so far) for over a year now. What would happen if a light geodesic frame were built and a light, strong envelope enclosed it. If the air inside were heated or in some other fashion evacuated then sealed. The resulting structure would be "permanently" bouyant as in lighter than air gas filled airships without the need for onboard reserves of this gas and the concerns of outside temperature differentials as in hot air type airships. The numbers, as in most airship design, look better with increasing sizes. Two or more skins can be used to create buffered pressure pockets, reducing the pressure differences from the inside to the outside, and sharing the stress. Not an entirely new idea (in fact the oldest i.e. 17th century, I believe), but with modern materials like graphite composites and mylar,etc. perhaps closer to realization. Comments please. Brian Ward of vannbri@csulb.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:14:22 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: newbie I haven't really built anything, just looked at the books so, I don't recall the differences amonst 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 domes (although I seem to recall that 5/8 works for the "alternate" trigation of the icosah., with nice opportunities for doors at groundlevel), but kneewalls (or whatever you called'em) should be simplest for the 1/2 domes, since any geodesic spheres can be stretched by a -vault- of arbitrary (within frequencies of the triga) length between the two hemispheres (of the complete sphere, of course). good luck & compile a progress-report for us to subscribe to! ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:47:14 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Copper In Message Tue, 03 Oct 1995 18:28:49 -0400, James Fischer writes: >>> they say invention is related to humor in some way. >>> who invented the copper wire? >>> >>> two dutch pulling on one guilder. >>> > > WIRE you asking? > Guilder is Holland dollar coine. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:07:14 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: newbie Hello Joe, are you still in planet polluto. >Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 >P.O. Box 479 ? >Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: >$19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Just becuse i am intrested to make some business( just an idea) i think the address is missing the name of the City. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:56:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "M.J. Kraak" Organization: Faculty of Geodetic Engineering Comments: To: geo-newsgroups@Geo.TUDelft.NL SDH'96 ----------------- CALL FOR PAPERS SDH'96 ----------------- CALL FOR PAPERS SDH'96 ----------------- CALL FOR PAPERS SDH'96 ----------------- CALL FOR PAPERS THE MEETING The International Symposium on Spatial Data Handling (SDH) is the premier research forum for Geographical Information Systems. It commenced in 1984, in Zuerich, and has been held every two years since. The meetings have been held in Seattle, Sydney, Zuerich, Charleston and Edinburgh. It is the primary event organised by the International Geographical Union's Commission on Geographical Information Systems. The 1996 meeting will be held in Delft, the Netherlands, August 12-16, hosted by the Faculty of Geodetic Engineering of the Delft University of Technology. PAPERS Following the Edinburgh approach the SDH programme committee will be selecting papers based on the complete paper, not abstracts, which will be fully refereed by at least three international recognised specialists. The programme committee is chaired by Professor Martien Molenaar (Wageningen Agriculture University, Centre for Geo-Information Processing)) Papers will be evaluated on the basis of how well they reflect the cutting edge of scientific achievment in the field. There is no particular conference theme, however the keynote spreakers will address the impact of fundamental GIS reseach. To see the range of topics likely to be coverd , consult previous SDH proceedings papers. Some of the topics are: data integration, databases, algorithms, spatial decision support systems, spatial analysis, digital terrain modelling, visualization and multi- media, spatio-temporal GIS, fuzzy processing, uncertainty and error analysis. The proceedings will be published in book format by Taylor & Francis. They also published the 1994 porceedings. DEADLINES Deadline for papers JANUARY 15, 1996 Notification of acceptance APRIL 15TH, 1996 Final version of papers (allows corrections/minor updates) JUNE 1ST, 1996 INSTRUCTION TO AUTHORS Individuals and groups should submit complete papers by the deadline of January 15th 1996. These papers should be 10 pages in length (approximated 5000 words). Please note that longer papers are likely to be rejected. The papers, written in english, should include : - title - author(s), affiliation, addresses, tel/fax mumbers, e-mail address - abstract (up to 200 words) - up to five keywords - texts (and illustrations) - references The papers should be submitted on paper, disk (see below for formats), or e-mail (if no diagrams). Note that papers may not be submitted by fax. The address is: - SDH96 - Faculty of Geodetic Engineering - Delft University of Technology - Thijsseweg 11, 2629 JA Delft - the Netherlands - sdh96@geo.tudelft.nl After acceptance, final papers MUST be submitted both on paper and MS-DOS formatted disk. Formats acceptable for text: - Microsoft Word for Windows - Wordperfect for Windows and non-windows - ASCII Graphics are acceptable in: - TIF and GIF (bitmaps) - CDR (Coreldraw), - Postscript (PS, EPS and AI), - Mac PICT format on DOS formatted disk INFORMATION SERVICE The conference has an on-line information service which can be contacted by either e-mail or WWW. The e-mail address is: sdh96info@geo.tudelft.nl A message with no specific request will reply with instructions on how to use the service. conference e-mail, which demands a personal answer, should be send to: sdh96@geo.tudelft.nl The WWW address of the SDH96 homepage is: http://www.geo.tudelft.nl/~sdh96/ GENERAL CHAIR SDH96 - Menno-Jan Kraak - Faculty of Geodetic Engineering - Delft University of Technology - Thijsseweg 11, 2629 JA Delft - the Netherlands - phone: +31 15 782584 - fax: +31 15 782745 - e-mail: kraak@geo.tudelft.nl CURRENT SDH'96 SPONSORS - ESRI - Survey Department, Ministry of Transport and Public Works - Netherlands Cadastre - Netherlands Cartographic Society - Netherslands Photogrammetric Society - Bridgis - Netherlands Geodetic Commision ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:56:41 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tom Dosemagen Subject: Re: newbie The 5/8 dome will give you more head room on all the levels above the main level. You haven't said what diameter dome you are considering. I live in a 44' diameter dome and used 2' riser walls. This is what was recommended to me by the dome company that I ordered my dome from. Like you I'm not an architect, so I would check with the people that you are going to get your dome from. As for interior layout, let your imagination go wild. Just keep in mind that it is much easier to stack rooms that require plumbing. If you have any more questions just ask. I have lived in dome for 15 years and wouldn't move back into a box type house for anything. Good luck. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:04:53 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Martha Rubin Subject: Re: newbie Gosh. I'm beginning to think I'm a bit out of my league. Being a professional musician, I'm ashamed to say that your vocabulary concerning these structures was a bit hieroglyphic to me :( - What is trigation? icosah? kneewalls? vault of arbitrary length? triga? I'm beginninig to understand that i have a LOT to learn! TIA, /martha busgirl@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: newbie wrote: >>Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 >>P.O. Box 479 ? >>Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: >>$19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes > i think the address is missing the name of the City. Italy, Texas, is about an hour south of Dallas. Just reading the July/August issue of MC's "Roundup" newsletter, in which they describe watching a tornado pass directly over their dome office. It snapped off a telephone pole at the base, which landed smack on the roof, but nobody inside even heard it hit, and later they found it just scratched the surface. Meanwhile, the tornado uprooted several large trees nearby, snapped others in half, threw a few doghouses up in the air, dogs included, flung a trash dumpster 50 yards, which landed on top of a trailer, tossed a canoe 150 yards from its pond, twisted up two steel barns "like licorice," and went on to severely damage several conventional buildings. Last year I heard someone describe an earthquake that happened during a church service inside a Monolithic dome in Alaska--6.8 on the Richter scale, as I recall. Several people fell down as the floor heaved all over, but there was no structural damage to the dome. These domes are incredibly strong. Overbuilt, I'd say. Monolithic has been building them all over the world for 20 years now, and they are just starting to do houses. Their domes are typically quite a bit larger, eg 200' in diameter and 10 stories tall, with a 50 ton grain elevator on the roof, with no additional support, except for the reinforced concrete shell of the dome underneath. Their domes are also quite cheap and quick to construct and very fireproof. Insurance rates for these all-masonry buildings, walls and roof, are about one third that of a conventional building, according to the newsletter. And their domes are extremely energy-efficient. And they make high performance passive solar houses, since the concrete mass is inside the foam insulation. Nick (I have no financial interest in this company.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:17:45 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Re: newbie > >>>Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 >>>P.O. Box 479 ? >>>Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: >>>$19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes > >> i think the address is missing the name of the City. > >Italy, Texas, is about an hour south of Dallas. i thought it was Italy. and the Tx for telex, but that is me always tired. I hope to talk with my brother to build them in Libya,so far no geodesic home have been built there. May be i can get rich ( just kidding) and since the world getting to be quiclyinterconectedit is time they move into the ecological technology. they only have about 30 billion barrel in the ground(1990) of oil enough for 20 years then they will be living on dates. >Just reading the July/August issue of MC's "Roundup" newsletter, in which >they describe watching a tornado pass directly over their dome office. >It snapped off a telephone pole at the base, which landed smack on the >roof, but nobody inside even heard it hit, and later they found it just >scratched the surface. Meanwhile, the tornado uprooted several large trees >nearby, snapped others in half, threw a few doghouses up in the air, dogs >included, flung a trash dumpster 50 yards, which landed on top of a trailer, >tossed a canoe 150 yards from its pond, twisted up two steel barns "like >licorice," and went on to severely damage several conventional buildings. doghouses out ,outrooted your search for detail is fantastac, i noticed in the solar staff you write though i have not read well the minute details, someday i will.I wish i could be so detailed in my evidence. Anyway people who have studied the geomety little know by building a model that the icos and hig f of icos are very strong. so strucutally geodesic dome are very strong, exctly what fuller say. i am just repeating, and your story only adds to the evidence. the pole and the trees have no tringular tensional support, so they naturally snap off. It happens in a mild storm in tripoli. this reminds me of why banans buckle. >Last year I heard someone describe an earthquake that happened during >a church service inside a Monolithic dome in Alaska--6.8 on the Richter >scale, as I recall. Several people fell down as the floor heaved all over, >but there was no structural damage to the dome.(fell in) when i think cement i think cubic building. >These domes are incredibly strong. Overbuilt, I'd say. Monolithic has been >building them all over the world for 20 years now, and they are just starting >to do houses. Their domes are typically quite a bit larger, eg 200' in >diameter and 10 stories tall, with a 50 ton grain elevator on the roof, with >no additional support, except for the reinforced concrete shell of the dome >underneath. if one want to build them in africa, is it possible to make them on the spot. and can they build smaller ones. i send information to the Indian embassy few years ago when a city in india was hit by an earthqueck, the information was about the safty of geodesic domes. India already know about fuller structures. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:32:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Vandy Henriksen Subject: Re: newbie >> >>>>Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 >>>>P.O. Box 479 ? >>>>Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: >>>>$19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes >> >>> i think the address is missing the name of the City. >> >>Italy, Texas, is about an hour south of Dallas. > > i thought it was Italy. and the Tx for telex, but that is me always > tired. I hope to talk with my brother to > build them in Libya,so far no geodesic home have been built there. Howdy all! I'm heading from Austin TX to Dallas TX tomorrow and will be passing through Italy TX. I'll try and stop and pick up some first hand info on their operation. Monolithic's had some domes on the side of the high way for a couple of years now, but I've never stopped to talk to them before. They have a great folky/kitschy eyecatcher which is about 8 medium sized domes in a row that are squished together, painted bright colors, and have eyes painted and long antenna attached on one end. Nothing like a 150 foot caterpillar to catch your eye, even in Texas! Best, vh ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: AFund Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: AFund Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: newbie Best new building disaster resisttance technology we believe comes from International Hi-Tech Industries--earthquake resistance, virtually fireproof, hurricane and flood proof etc. For technical info call the company 1-800-838-8090. FYI I DO have a financial stake in the company i.e. own shares and believe it will revolutionize the construction industry as Microsoft did the computer industry. Cheers. There are plenty of disasters to look out for. Henry Weingarten ASTROLOGERS FUND "Always a Stellar Performance" Email: AFund@aol.com 212/949-7275 Fax: 212/949-7274 350 Lexington Ave #402 NY NY 10016-0909 http://www.ids.net/starbridge/afund ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:39:30 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: newbie > [huh ?!?] this is where the phrase, "it's all Greek to me" comes from -- geometry -- but I have my own peculiarities, as well, stemming from my wish to be consistent & concise; I use the Greek "trigon", as in trigonometry, instead of "triangle", the literal translation, and "triga" is the plural (I guess), as well as "tetraga" for the general quadrilaterals, although "square" is still convenient for the regular tetragon. also, I abbreviate: icosah.=icosahedron=icosahedra, icosag.=icosagaon=icosaga. kneewalls are your (I already forgot the again-above-used word); at the base of dome, they'll be a short cylinder, and a vault is just a half-cylinder that's used as a shelter, although I was just referring to the cylindrical aspects of trigation (or omnitriangulation, as Bucky'd say), not really half-cylinders! ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 06:51:14 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jake Hudson Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) Subject: Recipes for sale!! Ever gone to a fast food chain restaurant and spent $10.00-$15.00 a meal on food that is not that good or even healthy?????? Well I know that you so here is my anser to your money problem for the price of $5.00 you will get over 74 recipies that our safe and are very cheap to make. A study that I did found out that if you eat at home more that you eat out then you will live longer and will save al least $750-$1500.00 a YEAR!!!!!!!!! All that you have to do is send me the five dollars( to handle the time that I put in to make this all happen) you must also send me a ms-dos pre formatted disk that will work with a IBM-PC( sorry macs maybe latter) and also include a self addressed stamped envelope................ One more reason that you should buy these is because you can lose weight because all of these are healthy meals that will cut your calories........................take off all of that fat..... to get your 75 healthy recipes send your $5.00(U.S. money only, ONLY CASH) your 1 preformatted ( 3.5inch 1.44 meg) disk, and a self addressed stamped envelope. if you want more recpes then send $10.00 and you will get 150 of the best tasting recipies in the world. Just try then they are only $5.00-$10.00 it will be worth it for you. ok, here is my final offer if you just want to try out the product to see if it works then send $1.00(cash only) to the address below........ ........you will not need a disk for this option..........you will then receive 5 recipes to try and see if you like, befor you by the big pack........ Send all the stuff to: Recipies inc. 9393 Nth 90th street Suite 102-289 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:41:39 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Daniel Whiting Subject: Re: Recipes for sale!! Do all of your recipies include SPAM? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:34:11 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Davis Subject: Re: Recipes for sale!! In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hudson" at Oct 6, 95 06:51:14 am Please get a spell checker for your unsolicited ads. Bye. -- F. Willis Davis UPDATE Magazine!, Editor P.O. Box 17 Mexico, IN 46958 fdavis@holli.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 18:01:07 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: Re: newbie How does MC do windows and doors? Do they utilize Bournolli self-cooling ? Have they ever tried it ? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 14:52:14 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Generalized principle Is this a generalized principle? In any geodesic structure the distance between any two vertical buildings at the top will alawys be more than the distance on the ground. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 14:59:21 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Invention Fog shower: Can this be extended to clean cars and machines. M.tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:08:08 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Precesssion The other than 180 degree precession is not at all like the solid corner of builings, but is more like computer software language 90 degree effects. Invisible and butterfly like, it may just be like thinking itself. Can the angle be 190 degree? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:49:18 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Trivia I read in a news group about dreams to count 1 2 3 in case if not succeding in escaping by flying(many times i cant fly anymore) and it works, well i thought that might have to do you with the basis of reality on geometrical numbers(Pythagors,Fuller) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:42:27 GMT Reply-To: ross@kea.ak.planet.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ross Keatinge Organization: Cellnet Mobile Services Ltd Subject: Looking for domes to visit in Georgia or Florida Hi there... This is a bit of a long shot but... >From November 18th I will be visiting a friend in Georgia, an hour's drive north of Atlanta for two weeks and then driving to Florida for a week before returning to New Zealand. I hope to build a dome home one day and would love to see some examples. Are there any dome home owners listening in that area who wouldn't mind a quick visit? As a general Bucky fan, I'm also interested in any suggestions for places of interest to visit. I plan to visit the Epcot Center. Regards Ross Keatinge Auckland, New Zealand. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:27:01 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: a definition of Univers I am sort of not happy by Fuller definition of Univese becuse it seems not to effect me much, so i thought perhaps the language is not intimate and therefor stays a bit remote. the definiton is quite accurte to my best of knowldge. So i thought perhaps we should start from not to well defined, or imperfect definition and improve it step by step, and use other words which perhaps gives little of the feeling that he tried to impart. do not mind me if I did not take much time to think, and forgive me if i make stupid mistakes as i always do (haha). Universe is made of endless stories which are happining now, happend, or shall happen but not at the same instinte some overlap like a dynamic sets. these stories can be actual or imaginable, visible or invisible. there timing is related to Einstein clock expirment of relativity, a general law from the science of phiscis, which has been generalized by fuller to all the stories of which some are accuring at this minute which are finite, they have a start and an fini, these definition apply to all the observers of which some are in two trains passing by at 200 mile per houre, or observers of two horses in the victorian times passing each other at 20 meter per minute, or to add more fun to the definiton a dinasouras passing a tierasouras 200 million years ago. I am leaving now and few minutes to 10 hours later some observers will read this but not at the same instint, few might overlap. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 06:25:23 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: newbie Anthony Kalenak wrote: >How does MC do windows and doors? The domes are built by inflating a vinyl "airform," then spraying it inside with foam, then putting some "stickers" on the foam, then wiring on reinforcing rod to the stickers, then spraying the inside with concrete. Windows and doors are made by sewing right angular "augmentations" onto the basically hemispherical airform, and not spraying those parts with foam and concrete, and adding on conventional windows and doors when the shell is finished. >Do they utilize Bournolli self-cooling ? Hmmm. What's that? Vent holes at the top seem popular... On another subject: Article: 40706 of sci.energy From: nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.energy,sci.engr.mech,alt.energy.renewable, alt.architecture.alternative,alt.solar.thermal Subject: Re: Solar Energy Date: 8 Oct 1995 06:06:21 -0400 Organization: Villanova University Gary Coffman wrote: >Putting that in perspective, you're talking about 594,000 BTU, about >the amount of heat my furnace puts out in two hours. What do you suggest >for the other 2158 hours I need heat each season? I've tried to explain this at least twice before, but for some reason, few people around here seem to listen, perhaps because everyone is shouting. Sci.energy people seem to be very energetic, hopping up and down all the time. Perhaps we can all pause and relax for a moment, and become perfectly calm. Let us put aside our own thoughts for a moment, and allow the waters of our minds to become less rippled, to become perfectly smooth reflecting pools, perfect mirrors, perfectly still waters in which we can clearly and calmly see the reflected reality of the world around us, just listening... 1. A 16' solar closet containing a 15' cube of 130 F hot water, say, and 6" of insulation, stores a useful heat for space heating purposes of about 15 ft^3 x 62 lb/ft^3 x (130F-80F) = 10 million Btu, not a half-million, as stated above, and 2. In the house heating system I have in mind, this heat battery would only be used to heat the house when the sun is not shining. On an average winter day, the solar closet just keeps itself warm. It does not supply any heat to the house, except by leakage. On an average day in the winter, with some sun, the house is heated by an inexpensive, low-thermal-mass sunspace, that collects about 800 Btu/ft^2 of glazing/day, where I live. If you tell me how much oil you use over a season, I can tell you how big a sunspace you need. If you use, say, 1000 gallons of oil a year, and the heating season is 200 days, you need 5 gallons of oil a day, on the average, ie you need a sunspace glazing area of about 5 gallons x 100,000 Btu/gallon/800 Btu/ft^2/day = 625 ft^2 of south-facing sunspace area, which is a pretty big sunspace, eg about 40' long x 16' high. But then, that's a pretty big heat load... You can buy the components for such a sunspace from a commercial greenhouse supplier for less than $1,000... The components for a 3,000 ft^2 commercial greenhouse (30' wide x 100' long) cost about $3,000, and three people can put one up in one day, starting from scratch, with no foundation. These components would make 4 2-story lean-to sunspaces for conventional houses, each 50 feet long, ie 4 sunspaces 8' wide x 50' long x 16' high, each having 800 ft^2 of glazed area. About a dollar per square foot of glazing. >>May I make one suggestion??? >> >>INSULATE that building NOW!!!!!!!! Good suggestion. Plug up some of the air leaks, etc. Solar closets and sunspaces get to be very large on a house with average or worse levels of insulation and air infiltration... Here's a more reasonable application: I have J. D. Ned Nisson and Gautam Dutt's 1985 John Wiley & Sons, Inc., _Superinsulated Home Book_ in front of me, and on page 57-58 they calculate the total house heat loss coefficient for a 40' x 50' rectangular house with 8' ceilings and no basement. The walls of their house are R30, the ceiling is R60. The total window area is 12% of the floor area and the windows have an R-value of 2.8. Two R10 doors have an area of 42 ft^2. Infiltration is 0.05 ACH (extremely tight), and a ventilation system with an air-air heat exchanger supplies an additional 0.45 ACH with 70% heat recovery. This all comes out to 230 Btu/F or 67 watts/F. They suggest that 2,500 Btu/hour (about 700 watts) is a good estimate for intrinsic heat, ie internal heat generation. If it is 70F inside and 30F outside, Nisson/Dutt's house would use (230 Btu/F x (70-30) - 2500 Btu/hr) x 24 = 160 K Btu/day, with no sun. On pages 59-60, Nisson and Dutt calculate that their example house will gain another 100K Btu/day of solar heat through the windows on an average day in January in New York City. This reduces the average net heat load of the house to 60K Btu/average winter day, with some sun. Gary's furnace would have to run 13 minutes a day to heat this house on an average January day. Bear in mind that this is a _superinsulated_ house, by 1985 standards. Some people (eg William Shurcliff) say that once you have a superinsulated house, you might as well forget about spending any more money on solar heating, because the yearly fuel bill is so low. But it's nice to use zero fossil fuel, and superinsulation does not heat water. >You're not paying attention. There's a lot of that going around :-) >My furnace is rated at 275,000 BTU/hr. >Of course it doesn't run all the time. How often does it run? How much oil a year do you actually use? >All I'm noting is that the seemingly monster 594,000 BTU of storage If this is the 16' monster cube, it holds 10,530,000 Btu, not 594,000. >is really chicken feed, replaceable by 2 hours running time on my furnace. Or 38 hours of your furnace running full blast, with the 16' monster. Over a hundred gallons of oil. Was the 594K Btu the 8'monster? Perhaps your house needs a bigger monster. >I have need of 2160 heating hours a year in this climate, which is modest >compared to the North. Agreed... Now how much oil do you use in a season? Tell me that, and we can size your sunspace. >Now the furnace is a demand system, and only runs >when the house temperature drops, but it certainly runs more than >2 hours a day total, so the little water closet is insufficient. Perhaps you need a bigger WC, when the sun is not shining. But the closet size has little to do with the size of the sunspace. >That's particularly true when you realize that it is starting at >a small delta T I figure the closet water starts out at a steady-state temperature of 130 F, after a string of average days, with some sun, and the house air is 70 F, ie the delta T is 50 F to start with. >and that delta is declining as heat is extracted, making the heat >extraction slower and slower so that you really can't get all that >heat back into room air in a reasonable on demand fashion. In the useful stored heat calc above, I figured the final closet temp as 80 F, ie a final delta T of 10 F. Now suppose the hot water is stored in 245 sealed $5 55 gallon drums, each having a surface area of 25 ft^2, and suppose the slowly moving air in the closet makes an R-value at the drum surface of 2/3 ft^2-Btu/F. Then with a 10 F delta T and a large airflow volume, the heat transfer rate will be (80F-70F) x 245 drums x 25 ft^2/drum /R=0.666 = 92K Btu/hour, so at the end of its discharge life, this closet could supply in one hour, roughly the same amount of heat that Nisson and Dutt's house used in a whole day, but at the end of its discharge life, it can only supply heat at 1/3 the rate of a 275K Btu/hour furnace... Not a high enough rate? OK, suppose we use 2 liter soda bottles instead of 55 gallon drums. These have an area of about 1 ft^2/bottle, and a 16' monster cube closet would contain about 50,000 of them, costing 10 cents each, if new, stacked up in the hard plastic boxes that cost $2 each, the ones you see stacked in the aisles of supermarkets. This monster would be a more efficient solar collector, and at the end of its discharge life, it would have a heat transfer rate of about (80F-70F) x 50,000 bottles x 1 ft^2/bottle/R=0.666 = 750K Btu/hour, ie it could crank out heat at 3 times the rate of the 275K Btu/hour furnace, at the end of its discharge life. If we say that the end of the closet's discharge life occurs at 100 F, it could replace 9 of those furnaces, in terms of heat transfer rate. If we made the closet air velocity 10 mph, (ie 880 fpm) and the bottles had a rough surface, the R value would decrease to 1/(2+v/2), ie 1/7, and at 100F, we could replace 42 of those furnaces. (We should also check how much airflow volume is needed for heat transfer.) >Now a *large* thermal mass would do better, of course... Hmmm, *large*... There's a lot of empty space in the middle of that new administration center in Paris... :-) A solar closet L' on a side takes about L^2 days to cool to 70 F, with no sun and no other heat load, in 32 F air. A hundred foot cube would take about 10,000 days to cool, ie 27 years with no sun, at 32 F. A mini ice-age. It seems to me that the critical thing is the heat transfer rate, not the amount of thermal mass, since the closet only supplies heat to the house when the sun is NOT shining. In sunny times, the sunspace heats the house. >but even it won't supply *days* of even heat as was claimed for >the little water closet. Are we talking little monsters or big monsters now? It is not hard to calculate how many days of heat a given closet can supply, if you know the thermal characteristics of the house, or your yearly heating bill. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David C. Olson" Subject: Remove from list In-Reply-To: <56979.tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl> Please remove my address/name from the list GEODESIC@UBVM. CC.BUFFALO.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:37:26 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Larger solar closets La Defense (is that the name of the empty cube in Paris?) looks to be about 500' tall, from a picture. If we filled the space inside with containers of water, and insulated the front and back faces, and added a passive solar air heater on the south face, we would have a solar closet that would take about 500^2 = 250,000 days, ie 685 years to cool to 70 F, with no sun, in 32 F air. If the earth were a solar closet, it would take about 5 trillion years to cool to 70 F. Of course the inside is molten rock, not hot water. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:45:08 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: water closets you did mention air-to-air heat-exchangers, andthose are absolutely essential to any super-insulated house, including a retrofit!... indoor levels of pollution are routinely (i.e.almost always, as you'd think, after a moment) a lot worse than outdoor's, from cooking, breathing, farting etc. I'd suggest the book, _Passive Annual Heat Storage_ by John Hait, for the penultimate discussion of the suburban single-story ideal. ----- The Palmtree BBS 310-453-8726 v.32 Inet: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 04:24:53 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gobbet Hofman Organization: Netcom Subject: WWW for GIS/GPS/Remote Sensing GeoWeb databases have over thousand of records which contains GIS/GPS/RS company and user contact info. You can easily query the databases using GeoWeb Search Engine by : - Company Name - Area Code - Geographic Location (Country, State, City) Job opening news is available on this site and posting job opening news to GeoWeb is FREE. Product news related to GIS/GPS/RS is also available on this site. The home page address is: http://www.ggrweb.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:35:00 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brendan A. Niemira" Organization: Michigan State University Subject: Re: Larger solar closets In Article <45d7rm$944@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu> "nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine)" says: > La Defense (is that the name of the empty cube in Paris?) looks to be about > 500' tall, from a picture. If we filled the space inside with containers of > water, and insulated the front and back faces, and added a passive solar air > heater on the south face, we would have a solar closet that would take about > 500^2 = 250,000 days, ie 685 years to cool to 70 F, with no sun, in 32 F air. > > If the earth were a solar closet, it would take about 5 trillion years > to cool to 70 F. Of course the inside is molten rock, not hot water. > > Nick Ah, but in addition to the heat input from solar light impacting, there is also the heat input from radioctive decay within the earth. As if you were to put a soldering iron inside one of your smaller solar closets, eh? Keep up the good work, Nick. You've already convinced me to add a solar closet to my house... when I get a house. :-( ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Brendan A. Niemira v3.1: GS d- s+:+ a- c++@ U-- P? L E? Dept. Botany and Plant Path. W-(--) N++(+++) o+ K--- w O? M-- V? Michigan State University PS+ PE(++) Y+ PGP t+++ 5 X++>++++ R niemirab@pilot.msu.edu tv b+++ DI D+ G e++++ h--- r+++ y+++ All opinions expressed are entirely my own. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 19:15:35 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Keith A. Gum 904-628-2953" Subject: Dome I would like to subscribe to this list. Please forward details. Thank you. Keith ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 17:02:10 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: specialization > >I am really intrested in finding out how can an average >person study different area in a coherent way, may be >one can find out some solution, > >one way to think of specialization is to think of the >unvirsity campus. there one can see real division, and feel >the strong clashes between terratories. does the divison come from >the buildings and the way they are set out, the equipment they >use, the arrangment of the labs( which oveall are enclosed in >cubic building as if mathmatics and old phyiscs have made the >bottom layer of thier paradigm, enclouser which is quite >restraint, in the very setting there are inscriptions >of canons) or does it also have another level. > > this tension is encountered in the way we think, in general > crossing is quite messy and bound to tensional clashes > that may mean that there must be another way of looking > to bring the language, the labs, and other divisons > together. mostly the problem is the way we think. > > i reflect times about this subject, and few ideas come > here and there but no solution. i am thinking of big > roll of film and i am asking myself what should > be the begning of the film, or the story (film here represents > comprehensive learning). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:27:09 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: administration email address for this list? What is the administration email address for this list? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 18:55:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Arnt Karlsen Organization: Hogskolen i Stavanger Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings In article <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) writes: > Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? > > Nick > ..anywhere light bulbs are sold; buy one (or more as required), break it (the glass), and voila; ze tungsten wire ! ;)... ..KR f Arnt ..and, yeah, the standard disclaimer, ahem: " These original, innovative, eccentric and possibly patentable ideas and opinions expressed here are my exclusive property." ..og, javisst, standard disclaimeren, hrmhrm: " Disse originale, innovative, eksentriske og muligens patenterbare ideer og oppfatninger som uttrykkes her er min ekslusive eiendom." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 19:50:52 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles Reese Organization: Duke University Subject: Re: Dirigible floor lamp musings arnt@hsr.no (Arnt Karlsen) wrote: >In article <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) writes: > >> Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? >> >> Nick >> >..anywhere light bulbs are sold; buy one (or more as required), break it (the glass), >and voila; ze tungsten wire ! ;)... > >..KR f Arnt > >..and, yeah, the standard disclaimer, ahem: " These original, innovative, eccentric and possibly patentable ideas and opinions expr= essed here are my exclusive property." > >..og, javisst, standard disclaimeren, hrmhrm: " Disse originale, innovative, eksentriske og muligens patenterbare ideer og oppfatni= nger som uttrykkes her er min ekslusive eiendom." > Note that tungsten is very easly oxidized, so don't heat it in air. If you want something to heat in air you might try platinum wire. It won't take quite as much heat as the W but it is pretty resistant to oxidation. Cheers Charlie Reese ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 21:06:30 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Unsubscribe Unsubscribe >>In article <44ogp9$b58@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu>, nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick >Pine) writes: >> >>> Where can I buy some very fine tungsten wire? >>> >>> Nick >>> >>..anywhere light bulbs are sold; buy one (or more as required), break it (the >glass), >>and voila; ze tungsten wire ! ;)... >> >>..KR f Arnt >> >>..and, yeah, the standard disclaimer, ahem: " These original, innovative, >eccentric and possibly patentable ideas and opinions expressed here are my exclusive property." >> >>..og, javisst, standard disclaimeren, hrmhrm: " Disse originale, innovative, >eksentriske og muligens patenterbare ideer og oppfatninger som uttrykkes her er min ekslusive eiendom." >> > >Note that tungsten is very easly oxidized, so don't heat it in air. If >you want something to heat in air you might try platinum wire. It won't >take quite as much heat as the W but it is pretty resistant to oxidation. > >Cheers >Charlie Reese > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 21:41:06 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: Re: newbie Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the dome. The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. The resultant is a cool stream of air for the inside top of the dome downward toward the floor. RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. I have yet to replicate this condition. You're a thermo wiz... What do you think ? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 22:39:01 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Re: newbie >Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the >dome. The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. >Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. The resultant is a cool stream >of air for the inside top of the dome downward toward the floor. > RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. >I have yet to replicate this condition. >You're a thermo wiz... >What do you think ? > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 07:21:11 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: newbie Anthony Kalenak wrote: >Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the dome. I can imagine that happening. >The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. OK. Like this, on a hot, calm day? up up up cw i ccw up . n . up . . up . d . up . cw o ccw . . vortex w vortex . => <== out / n \ out ==> <= ........................................ >Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. Hmmm... Let's see: PV = NRT. Perhaps you could live in a slight vacuum and reduce the air temperature by 10 degrees F this way, from say, 90 to 80, by reducing the pressure inside by about 2%, ie (1-(460+80F)/(460+90F)) x l4.6 psia = .265 psi or 38 pounds per square foot. Hmmm... A concrete dome might not collapse, but it seems unlikely you could achieve that kind of vacuum by solar thermal wind alone... What kind of air velocity would result inside the dome? Where are the orifice formulas when you need them? Would you need seatbelts and safety harnasses and velcro shoes and really good hairspray? >The resultant is a cool stream of air for the inside top of the dome >downward toward the floor. Well, a little cooler, maybe. The air inside would feel cooler, because it would be moving. U = 2 + v/2 Btu/ft^2/hr, for an air film near a rough surface with an airspeed of v mph. >RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. Did he mention what the temperature differences were? >I have yet to replicate this condition. Perhaps you are lucky :-) >What do you think ? I think it might be nice to put some ventilation holes in those places, and the airflow would make things feel cooler inside on some days, but perhaps it would be better to leave the vents closed during the day, and open them at night to allow air to flow out the top, inside a foam/concrete dome. Pity to waste all that solar heat, tho. Mebbie it can be stored somehow to help that nightime airflow and dehumidification happen... Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 11:35:56 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Preston-Beachwood Music Production Subject: Re: newbie >Anthony Kalenak wrote: > >>Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >>and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >>surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the dome. > >I can imagine that happening. > >>The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >>base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. > >OK. Like this, on a hot, calm day? > up > > up up > > cw i ccw > up . n . up > . . > up . d . up > . cw o ccw . > . vortex w vortex . >=> <== out / n \ out ==> <= >........................................ > >>Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. > >Hmmm... Let's see: PV = NRT. Perhaps you could live in a slight vacuum and >reduce the air temperature by 10 degrees F this way, from say, 90 to 80, >by reducing the pressure inside by about 2%, ie > >(1-(460+80F)/(460+90F)) x l4.6 psia = .265 psi or 38 pounds per square foot. > >Hmmm... A concrete dome might not collapse, but it seems unlikely you could >achieve that kind of vacuum by solar thermal wind alone... What kind of air >velocity would result inside the dome? Where are the orifice formulas when >you need them? Would you need seatbelts and safety harnasses and velcro shoes >and really good hairspray? > >>The resultant is a cool stream of air for the inside top of the dome >>downward toward the floor. > >Well, a little cooler, maybe. The air inside would feel cooler, because >it would be moving. U = 2 + v/2 Btu/ft^2/hr, for an air film near a rough >surface with an airspeed of v mph. > >>RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. > >Did he mention what the temperature differences were? > >>I have yet to replicate this condition. > >Perhaps you are lucky :-) > >>What do you think ? > >I think it might be nice to put some ventilation holes in those places, and >the airflow would make things feel cooler inside on some days, but perhaps >it would be better to leave the vents closed during the day, and open them >at night to allow air to flow out the top, inside a foam/concrete dome. >Pity to waste all that solar heat, tho. Mebbie it can be stored somehow >to help that nightime airflow and dehumidification happen... > >Nick > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 20:54:56 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ross Keatinge Organization: Cellnet Mobile Services Ltd Subject: Re: newbie amklnk@nyc.pipeline.com (Anthony Kalenak) wrote: >Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the >dome. The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. >Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. The resultant is a cool stream >of air for the inside top of the dome downward toward the floor. > RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. >I have yet to replicate this condition. >You're a thermo wiz... >What do you think ? This reminds me of a true story in a New Zealand dome building book. A newly built dome house was inspected by the city building inspectors. They insisted that for ventilation it needed a fan inside near the top of the dome. Despite protests from the builders they were unmoved and refused to certify the building until it was done so reluctantly it was installed. It spun around nicely... *without* the electricity being turned on. :-) Ross Keatinge Auckland, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:01:34 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Domes does plastic dome exist? you can close a box with cover, or a camera lense tightly, I was wondering if you can use that idea to cover a dome with lids which atomatically keep the rain out. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 11:41:35 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: newbie >Fuller said that if you put a series of small vents at the top of a dome >and large openings around the base, heating of the air on the exterior >surface of the dome causes a vertical column of hot air to rise from the >dome. The cooler air inside the dome drops thru the large vents at the >base. This displacement causes air to come in thru the small top openings. >Expanding to fill dome this air is cooled. The resultant is a cool stream >of air for the inside top of the dome downward toward the floor. > RBF is said to have achieved this in his metal prefab homes. >I have yet to replicate this condition. >You're a thermo wiz... >What do you think ? Anyone who claims to be a "thermo wiz", is, by definition, no such thing. Thermodynamics is a humbling area for all who wander through the field, therefore, the "wiz(zes)" KNOW that they are very inadequate to the task of turning theory (easy) into practice (very hard). Many things that work on paper, and in test environments don't work at all in "the field". Many things that happen to work in the field are "marginal" when studied and subjected to analysis. Recall that important work was done in this field by people who happened to be right, but for the wrong reason. Nicolas-Leonard-Sadi Carnot (1796-1832), for example, had this belief in a "fluid" called the "caloric"... that there is NO SUCH THING made no difference to the end result, which was some very good and very useful math that works well. To this day, engineering students are taught about the Carnot Cycle, and Carnot can be trotted out to humiliate anyone who makes the error of suggesting a "perpetual-motion machine". If you accept that hot air rises relative to cold air (a safe wager), what Bucky said makes (limited) sense, subject to at least the following caveats: 1) Small openings at the top and large openings at the bottom are counter-intuitive, since the amount of air that would move through the system would be limited by the smaller of the two, hence making the larger openings "overkill". The larger openings of the two sets may be a "bad thing", given that they reduce the amount of insulated enclosure. 2) The outer surface of the dome will heat up in areas where the sunshine falls upon the dome. The adjacent air within the dome is therefore heated. If the dome were sealed, all the air in the dome would get warmer, but the air nearest the warmest surfaces would be warmest. 3) A reasonable breeze could upset the motion of air due to the heating cycle described above, and reverse the airflow. In fact, this is not such a bad deal, since a nice breeze is much more "cooling" than a slowly moving cycle that drops the temperature by, say 5 degrees. This is why a fan is such a nice thing - it cools nothing, but it moves the air around. I would guess, based upon some rough math, that even a mild breeze would "swamp out" the thermal-heat-rise breeze. Roof tubines are kinda fun, in that they exploit the breeze to create suction, and therefore increase the airflow. They never "swamp", but can cause problems in gale-force storms. (The flying house!! Oooooh - neat. I better call my intellectual property attorney quick!) 4) The math and modeling required to replicate or disprove the "passive solar dome airflow" concept is kinda messy. Fact is, the math would only prove things one way or the other for an over-simplified "ideal case", having little to do with a real dome. 5) Bucky's drawings and models show other methods of ventilation for his "metal pre-fab homes", as follows: 5a) The "turning rooftop wind-vane" ventilator in the 1946 "Wichita" Dymaxion House plans (part 108 in the patent diagrams) are described as an important factor in the ventilation of the house, and since the material and labor added by the ventilator are considerable, one is forced to conclude that Bucky could not make the airflow work without insuring that the outside airflow was dealt with. (Wichita was NOT a dome, however...) 5b) The 1928 4-D house was also certainly not a dome, but it included a "whole house fan" (parts 254-256 on his patent diagrams). These are a good idea for ANY house. 5c) The Dymaxion Deployment Unit also had a "passive vent" at the peak, but an electric fan is shown in the diagrams (item 73 in the patent application) as an integral part of the vent design. 6) Given the large number of domes built to date, one presumes that "passive airflow", if practical, would be a major selling point for the structure concept. So far, no one has made any such claims. (Dome vendors and kit vendors that monitor this list - TAKE NOTE! Prove it, and you have a major selling point!) Therefore, if passive airflow was enough to do the job, we would hear of it (unless no one has the gumption to even try, since cutting holes in one's house is rather scary). It would seem that the "rules" are the same, and that the unique shape of the geodesic dome is a marginal, if any, improvement over any other structure shape. I, therefore, would go long in the stock of the Hunter Fan company... Buy and hold. Growth market. Star Products. Good name-brand values. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 22:23:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ian Tresman Organization: Knowledge Computing Subject: Announcement: Global geographical data The Global Gazetteer is a file of over 750,000 place names throughout the world enriched with additional geographic and statistical data. It is believed to be one of the larget and most complete files of its type available, and unique in the way in which various data elements have been brought together. The Global Gazetteer is available in 3 main formats: As a dBase .DBF file, ASCII file (comma separated), PICK T-DUMP. Details from: ALLM Systems & Marketing http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/geodata/ email: apritchard@cix.compulink.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 23:35:28 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: Re: newbie Let me refer you to "Critical Path" pg. 210. Fuller states the principle I quoted and said this has been proven in domes in equatorial Africa. You can point out many reasons why something shouldn't work. The proof in in the experimentation. Bucky say this worked. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 09:18:51 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Domes and Vents (was "newbie") Anthony Kalenak stated flatly: >Let me refer you to "Critical Path" pg. 210. >Fuller states the principle I quoted >and said this has been proven in domes in equatorial Africa. yeah, but Bucky said lots of stuff that was not quite 100% true in his "train-of-thought that often leaves the tracks" style of speaking and writing. >You can point out many reasons why something shouldn't work. Shouldn't, couldn't, wouldn't, wont. It will not work in a boat, It will not work on a goat. It will not work with green eggs and ham, I'm an engineer, so dogmatic I am! >The proof in in the experimentation. Yeah, and Bucky's statement in regards to at least his metal pre-fab houses was clearly false. None of his (known) designs show or even mention such a feature. It would seem that the DISproof was in Bucky's own experiments. >Bucky say this worked. And it WILL work, but ONLY on a very calm day with nice (ideal) factors, like cool temps in the morning, and an even heating curve from cool to hot to cool again in the evening. Sadly, ideal factors are what make wind-turbines and sterling steam engines look so great on paper, and so problematic in the lab and field. The problem is that this sort of stuff is EXACTLY what gives the entire non-traditional (domes, solar, earth-bermed, et al) approaches to living a bad name. Bucky often went into "blue-sky" mode in his speeches and writings. Good for him! What is needed is an "Annotated Bucky" (maybe we could do one of these someday) that clearly labels the timeframe and context of things, thus showing the initial insight, the later attempts, and the resulting implementation. This would clear up many misunderstandings, since I am sure that if we compare "Blue-Sky" to actual hardware, we will see that most of the concepts went SOMEWHERE, which is better than most of the R&D labs that have ever been. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 19:31:23 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: generalization quatation from the teaching of chimstry and physics "when a generallization has been stated it will find immediate application. frequently some little time will have to be devoted to making the application plain. for example, the law of conservation of matter finds illustration in the results of raising the same crop on the same piece of land year after year. if the product is one which is cut and carried off entirely the constituents of the soil which are essential parts of the food of the plant are effectually removed. anylysis of the soil and the plant show at once what stock of plant food is avialble, and how long it will last. the use of ferilizers and other expedients replaces or bring withn reach of the plant food the phosphates, for example, which are indispensable to its growth. if it is the law of definite propotions which is under discussion, illustration are abundant. in its absence we could not regulate the heating of our houses, becuse with the same draft and supply of oxygen the combusion would be more fierce at some times than at others;.... Just thinking...... if it is that easy to find application of a generalization!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 17:16:23 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Walt Lockley Subject: 'Annotated Bucky' The redoubtable James Fischer wrote: >Bucky say this worked. And it WILL work, but ONLY on a very calm day with nice (ideal) factors, like cool temps in the morning, and an even heating curve from cool to hot to cool again in the evening. Sadly, ideal factors are what make wind-turbines and sterling steam engines look so great on paper, and so problematic in the lab and field. The problem is that this sort of stuff is EXACTLY what gives the entire non-traditional (domes, solar, earth-bermed, et al) approaches to living a bad name. Bucky often went into "blue-sky" mode in his speeches and writings. Good for him! What is needed is an "Annotated Bucky" (maybe we could do one of these someday) that clearly labels the timeframe and context of things, thus showing the initial insight, the later attempts, and the resulting implementation. This would clear up many misunderstandings, since I am sure that if we compare "Blue-Sky" to actual hardware, we will see that most of the concepts went SOMEWHERE, which is better than most of the R&D labs that have ever been. --------------------------------------------------------- Quite right. All very nice to point to Bucky as a role model. There's nothing wrong with being inspired by his example. I would guess that everybody on this list have been inspired by him one way or another. But if these concepts don't work, Bucky becomes less of an Edison sort of inspiration and more like a Gene Roddenberry sort of inspiration. I'd LOVE to see an Annotated Bucky sort of document which would examine maybe five of Bucky's ideas against the traditional wisdom, the known facts, the experimental results. Maybe there's some of this in Jay Baldwin's upcoming book. I hope so. And if not, maybe this is the best venue to develop such a thing. Or is it more fun to just speculate? Walt klockley@delphi.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 19:56:30 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Some information out to the WW1 the army used only rifels france is the only country which used rockets to shoot german zappline(or was it ballons) 19c marchant were completelly cosmoplitain traded and migrated all over the world. the U.s built 200 bases in two years during the WW2 A. Nobel was intrested in making rockets, saw the danger of explosive, had stockes in his brother russian rail company. Crystlar around the 20 or 30 bought a car took it apart put it back again was it 500 hundred dollars which was the only money he had and started the car company Crystlar. in the 1950 black person was sold for 20 sterling in WW2 the atumobil factries in th Us changed into producing parts for dirplanes ( the smart man was Rottar) the smal barell which army carried every where inWW2 was invented in the same period. 100 oil business men conducted the secondWAR G.Bush was a presedent of an oil company today there 50 million computer sold every year Us and Japan produce from 10 to 15 million automobil each. New york city 100,000 ton of horse shit produced by horse every year, some thought bretty soon the whole country would be covered......( the enviromentally minded) Nano tech can produce everything we need costing the price of fire wood (MIT ) 1965 break of the 150,000 ton tanker limit, which now can carry 500,000 tons 1/2 of the cargo of international trade is hydrocarbons. the cost of minerals in international trade 1950 was 40 billion dollar. in 19&0s Onasis mad his fortune through buying second hand ships if i remmber right left over from second war. there were 40 billion dollars in the banks in Europe they did not know what to do it, which they lend to shipping companies. sorry these what i still somewhat remmber, it can give general idea the figures are close. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 20:07:20 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' Walt (klockley@delphi.com) said: >The redoubtable James Fischer wrote: ...that's "Doubtable", pardner... [9mm semi-automatic snippers used here] >> Bucky often went into "blue-sky" mode in his >> speeches and writings. Good for him! What >> is needed is an "Annotated Bucky" (maybe we >> could do one of these someday) that clearly >> labels the timeframe and context of things, >> thus showing the initial insight, the later >> attempts, and the resulting implementation. >> >> This would clear up many misunderstandings, >> since I am sure that if we compare "Blue-Sky" >> to actual hardware, we will see that most of >> the concepts went SOMEWHERE, which is better >> than most of the R&D labs that have ever been. >> >--------------------------------------------------------- > >But if these concepts don't work, Bucky becomes less of an >Edison sort of inspiration and more like a Gene Roddenberry sort >of inspiration. Not true. The concepts must be beaten upon, and beaten hard and long, so that the ones that survive the process can make a real difference. Edison was part of the PROBLEM (mostly useless consumer garbage developed to separate the weathly of the time from some of their dollars), Bucky tried to be part of the solution. No one wants half-baked implementations to be their legacy, so I am sure that Bucky would support some hard-nosed evaluation of the practicality of this or that. Given that none of us can afford custom tooling for integrated aircraft-like modular housing, we are left with a number of unexploited neat concepts to test and work upon. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 19:09:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Design Science and the Internet Comments: To: Jimoriset@aol.com At 12:50 PM 10/18/95 -0400, Jimoriset@aol.com wrote: >Dear Kirby, > >I wonder if you'd be willing to answer a few questions about www, and steer >me to a good source for more information? > >Although I've felt kind of burned out on BBS's, I must admit I am, somewhat >cautiously, fascinated by what's happening on the Internet, home pages, etc. > >Questions: > >How does the Internet work? Is it truly a centerless network? How large can >it grow, and still work - is it like a geodesic, which Bucky says, being a >tension structure, could be of unlimited size? I'd say pretty centerless, since "anyone" can go out and buy and computer and hook it up to the net. >Does a Home Page require a dedicated server? You offered to set up a home >page for me, which I assume would be on your server connected to your >Internet provider. Would all updating of such a page have to be done by you, >not something I could do from wherever I am? Best if pages can be served around the clock, meaning dedicated. In my case, I'm the only one allowed to access the disk area containing files associated with my account. I did put a very modest page together whereby some of your wares could be offered to the community. http://www.teleport.com/jmo_gall.html. I call these 'preview galleries' (samplers), not home pages. >Does your Internet provider allow you access at speeds greater than 28800? My provider does (has a T1 hookup, which is very fast), but my modem doesn't. Difficult for an ordinary home user to go above 28.8. A dedicated web server probably should be able to serve faster, but a low usage one can get by at 28.8. >I am impressed by the graphics on home pages as viewed on my Mac using AOL >and it's Browser. But several www addresses were not available thru AOL. Can >you cruise the net freely and quickly? More important, what is the quality of >the communications you find yourself engaging in on the Net? The Web is not very interactive. Passive viewing of pages mostly. Need to distinguish between Web and other internet services, e.g. newsgroups, email lists. Technology is not the limiting factor when it comes to quality. >I have heard that Internet was originally set up by the US government for use >by educational institutions etc. Set up by Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) for the military. Decentralized design for withstanding thermonuclear attack. >Can the government, CIA, etc pull the plug on Internet? Has it become a truly >democratic network, with no 'kingpin' centers to target or corrupt? I.e., in a >geodesic, if one hub is knocked out, the whole structure does not collapse, >the load is taken up by the rest of the structure. The government can target individual providers of content. The FBI breaks into your house or office and impounds your computer. So far, this is directed against child pornographers and probably drug dealers. So far. Legislation keeps coming up which would curtail content more broadly, always in the name of ordinary decency and protecting our children, always with a dangerous and insidious dark side. No need to pull the plug on the internet when you can still target individuals. The fear is not of some government plug pulling, but of creeping privatization, meaning toll meters appearing left and right and the wealth of free downloadable materials and software drying up, as commercialization, and its contrary values and culture (contrary to academia, government etc.) impose a regime of 'making expensive by making (artificially) scarce.' In technological terms, bandwidth and growth is not a problem. We have a surplus and the design anticipates many more users and much higher average speeds. >How like this is the Internet? That is, how democratic, >synergetic, hardy is the Internet? ..and what is its future likely to be? Is >the sudden influx of users going to clog or weaken the network, or will it >strengthen it, as would be the case with raising the frequency (number of >hubs) of a geodesic? The demographics of internet users will show that people of meager means, less access to education and high paying jobs (disproportionately women, members of various ethnic groups) do not have equal access. Without government/private initiative to actively provide access and infrastructure among the have nots, the internet will likely remain a province of the elite, further widening the gap between the wired and unwired. The ranks of homeless will be joined by the homepageless. Internet is not entirely anarchic, obviously since its technology has to remain intercompatible in large degree. The consensus needed is mostly focused around questions of design. I link the internet to Fuller in that it is a paradigm example of what Fuller meant by 'artifact'. Far right and far left content is equally accessible. People with very different religious, political etc. outlooks use it spontaneously, because it is a useful design. The way in which the internet is revolutionizing our life and culture is the way in which Fuller envisioned the design science revolution taking place in general, e.g. precessionally. >What is a good source of information on all this? (beside you and RLO?) The internet itself is the best source of information on the internet. >Best regards, > >Jim > >P.S. Do you have RLO's email address? > I don't think RLO will mind if I foward his latest news. >From: rlo@netcom.com (Robert Orenstein) >To: pdx4d@teleport.com >Subject: Jobs > >I've taken my first full-time job in ten years! I'm working for a >company called Glyphic; I'm the second employee; we make a new >programming language that's sort of a cross between HyperCard and >SmallTalk. > >It's all pretty cool. > >How are you doing? > >Robert ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 06:38:17 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: newbie James Fischer wrote: > Therefore, if passive airflow was enough to do the job, we would > hear of it (unless no one has the gumption to even try, since > cutting holes in one's house is rather scary). It would seem > that the "rules" are the same, and that the unique shape of the > geodesic dome is a marginal, if any, improvement over any > other structure shape. James Baldwin (author of upcoming Bucky Works publ. Wiley) says he's built domes in the Arizona desert that got so cold inside he'd have to get out in the sun to warm up. Seems like there's plenty of anecdotal evidence to bolster Bucky's claim. I don't think academia has spent nearly enough time/energy studying the structures be in a position to dismiss or confirm. Something about a sphere having the least surface to enclosed volume ratio would likely have a bearing on its possibly 'special' thermo properties. Kirby ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 06:55:28 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Generalized principle mohamed tagdi wrote: > Is this a generalized principle? > In any geodesic structure the distance between any two vertical >buildings at the top will alawys be more than the distance on the ground. >M.Tagdi I'd say, as expressed, no, because a 'building' is a special-case concept. Also 'geodesic structure' has not been defined. You're thinking of the sphere, and Fuller's observation that the World Trade Center towers are some inches further apart at the top because they're on respective radii from the Earth's center out towards the stars (a different star for each). With suspension bridges, it's even clearer, because the span between them is greater. Because of the curvature of the earth, such supposedly 'parallel' structures are not parallel at all. Fuller liked to cite such examples to break the hold of the flat-earth metaphor. Tho we all know the world is round, we still suffer from old habits, picturing an xy plane of checkerboard squares stretching to infinity, with all the vertical structures standing orthogonal to the checker board, and parallel to each other. This is the rectilinear universe stretching to infinity. This is *not* the real world that we live in. But a 'building' need not be a skyscraper or suspension bridge tower. It may be designed to lean or bend, such that it even touches the building next to it towards the top -- think of half an arch meeting the other half. So, again, as phrased, your sentence can only be given a special-case meaning (which I have here attempted to provide). Kirby ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:03:58 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: a definition of Univers tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: >I am sort of not happy by Fuller definition of Univese becuse it seems >not to effect me much, so i thought perhaps the language is not >intimate and therefor stays a bit remote. the definiton is quite >accurte to my best of knowldge. So i thought >perhaps we should start from not to well defined, or imperfect definition >and improve it step by step, and use other words which perhaps gives little > of the feeling that he tried to impart. do not mind me if I did not >take much time to think, and forgive me if i make stupid mistakes as >i always do (haha). I like your focus on Universe as interweaving stories. This is certainly what Fuller had in mind with his oft repeated phrase 'partially overlapping scenarios'. But he seemed to put humans at the centers of these stories, as the subjective experience communicators -- the stories are told or related, even if simply to oneself. This viewpoint is in contrast to the 'eye of God' view traditionally imparted, where we are given views of the universe that humans could not possibly have, such as of the Big Bang (a false picture if seen as an expanding sphere from outside, since no outside viewpoint from which to view the Big Bang makes sense, mainly because outside viewpoints are not defined). Of course we can make up stories in which the Big Bang appears as a cartoon experience, and relay that as information, thereby adding to Universe as a collection of partially overlapping stories, many of which contain fictitious or fabricated events. In the following post, I will share a longish essay on Fuller's definition of Universe excerpted from a web page by Bill Peay. Perhaps Bill's essay will prompt further useful discussion. Kirby ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:07:09 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: a definition of Univers Tagdi -- This essay by Bill, and my previous post (have you seen it?) are continuing your thread re Fuller's definition of Universe. Below: article from http://hoohana.aloha.net/~billpeay/TECHT07.html Apologies for the word wrap problems. I don't have the time to reformat. Kirby Tech Time Article: "The Universe is the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated nonsimultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences." That quote comes from R. Buckminster Fuller in his book Synergetics. I thought he was nuts. The first time I read that quote, and reread it, and reread it, it just didn't make sense. But that was back in 1975. Synergetics was a little understood concept back then. That one sentence, that all encompassing statement, defines the underlying repercussions of the evolving Information Industry. Within its carefully crafted words lies the power of common consciousness. Among those 126 letters is the reasoning and understanding of the boundaries of the human species, and within it, the limits of our knowledge. As a credo, it may well be the battle cry of tomorrow's children as the whole world embellishes the definition with understanding and achieves global peace. So what does it really say? Bucky's view looks at the size of the universe from the perspective of human perception, instead of its actual physical size. Basically he is saying that if you took everything you knew about anything, and matched it up with what everyone else on earth knows about anything, then the sum total of everything everyone knows about anything at all would be contained in that complete set of human knowledge. So if you want to know how big the universe is, it's only as big as the furthest distance any individual human has ever been able to gaze in any direction, and no bigger. That's a lot different than saying it's really big and we just haven't seen how big it actually is yet. R. Buckminster's definition puts limits on everything. The smallest particle in the world is as small as the smallest one ever observed, and no smaller. The number of species on earth are only the number actually observed and documented by scientists, and no more. Of course, we know there are smaller particles and more unrecorded species, but they are not a part of our universe, the "human" universe. We have every confidence that our common universe is expanding daily as new discoveries are made, pushing the boundaries further out in all directions and in all fields. But the fact remains, that "Universe" is the aggregate of all humanity's experiences and nothing more. But wait, Mr. Fuller's definition has more words in it, and it is those intermediary words we want to focus on. "Consciously apprehended" experiences eliminate dreams and visions from direct knowledge of the known universe. Perhaps those dimensions of human thought are analogous to the fourth dimension in our physical counterpart definition, but here they are omitted from the boundary of the known human universe. "Nonsimultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences" reduces the knowledge of the universe to one common set. If we all saw the TV broadcast of the first footstep on the moon, it really need be only recorded once in the collective human consciousness record. Of course, for the people there on the moon, their experience was somewhat different than what we saw on TV, so a complete record would include the partially overlapping experiences of you, me, and them. Time figures into the common consciousness equation because the record of all our experiences depends on the elements which compose our common knowledge base spaced over different moments, even though they might be partially overlapping. The Rodney King beating videotape is a classic example of the nonsimultaneousness of our common consciousness. We all saw that footage at different times, yet we can clearly discuss the incident no matter when we actually saw it. Most importantly, we are all growing sociologically as a species because of it, as painful as that progress might seem at the time. There is one word left, and it is the most powerful word in the definition: "communicated." You see, all our history, all our individual experiences, when communicated, contribute to expanding the overlap of humanity's entire knowledge base. Until the introduction of telecommunications there had never been an opportunity for a single individual to penetrate the boundaries of mankind's knowledge so significantly. Soon, the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated nonsimultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences will be instantly within the reach of every technologically adapted person on the planet. You will be able to have immediate access to anything you want to know, and you will be able to access it instantly, whether it is coming to you on TV, radio, or via computer. Now you have been exposed to R. Buckminster Fuller's concept of humanity's Universe. In the years to come, this will be your universe too. The driving force behind a universal common consciousness is communications, and, because of geographical differences, that translates to telecommunications for Hawaii and the movement of vast amounts of information around our planet. Together we can accelerate mankind's efforts to achieve an understanding of cultural and social differences, to facilitate the mediation of political differences across geopolitical earth, and to harmonize peace, not through hearsay and speculation, but through true consciously apprehended experience sharing with each other. When I climb upon my weekly soapbox here and attempt to instill a financial motivation in your mind for joining into a tiny facet of the Information Industry, like FAX subscriptions by computer or profit sharing telephone calling cards, I would like you to know that there is deeper meaning to what I do, and what I hope you do, too. Yes, bringing a regular revenue stream into our tiny Island from the value added services of information processing is important. Each of us can make money, and in so doing, we can raise the quality of our already outstanding life on Kauai, but we have the potential to do so much more. Scratching out a living is one thing, but empowering the social development of the fabric of human consciousness can be quite rewarding in and of itself. Just remember this: Each and every time you help bring two or more lives together, each and every time you share a bit of yourself with others, each of those times you contribute to a fuller understanding of life for all of us. With communication comes understanding. With understanding comes respect and acceptance. When the history of mankind is written, you can bet it will have been the facilitators of communication who will have done the most to achieve global peace. Right now, right here, you have the unique opportunity to become one of those facilitators. All you have to do is reach out and try. ARTICLE COPYRIGHT 1995 - BILL PEAY ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:14:54 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: specialization mohamed tagdi wrote: >> >>I am really intrested in finding out how can an average >>person study different area in a coherent way, may be >>one can find out some solution, Personally, I think the World Wide Web and other hypertext tools (Hyper-G) coming down the pipeline, are evolution's answer to overspecialization. For example, yesterday a friend called because she had a job interview at a local high tech firm and wanted to know what ASIC and MCM meant. Because of the web, I was able to return 'Application Specific Integrated Circuit' and 'Multi-chip Module' in a matter of minutes. Using my library skills, this would have taken the better part of a day, simply because I would have to take a bus to/from the library. While searching for the meaning of these acronyms, I was able to read about upcoming conferences, new trends in electronic circuit design, survey the field of commercial vendors for circuit design projects etc. Fascinating, and completely 'irrelevant' to my everyday knowledge. I've always been a browser at heart. At university, I'd spend hours roaming the libraries, reading anything and everything almost completely at random -- tho sometimes following threads. I knew even then that hypertext would be ideal for someone like me, because I'd be able to follow and drop threads more freely, without wasting hours climbing stairs, searching catalogs, waiting for others to return their materials. I celebrate the world wide web, and the internet, as paradigm artifacts, bringing on a design science revolution (artifact-based, not politically derived) as deep and transforming, at least potentially, as the one Fuller envisioned. Kirby ------------------------------------------------------------ Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:33:13 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Re: newbie > >James Baldwin (author of upcoming Bucky Works publ. Wiley) says he's >built domes in the Arizona desert that got so cold inside he'd have >to get out in the sun to warm up. Seems like there's plenty of >anecdotal evidence to bolster Bucky's claim. I don't think academia >has spent nearly enough time/energy studying the structures be in >a position to dismiss or confirm. Something about a sphere having >the least surface to enclosed volume ratio would likely have a >bearing on its possibly 'special' thermo properties. > >Kirby i just want to add a general comment, that this exchange is important, and may be we should not underevaluate the benefit thought it may take time to realize. we are recieving a lot of corrected concepts and ideas which might have great effect in reorinting us toward good ways to think and act. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:55:14 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Learning As beginig period for new learner or one who find it to much to deal with different attractive subjects. here is one clue but others might know better. course in multi area study ( sets og overlaping area) Design 2 big pictures pattren (such as banking and logistics) geometry. and your own prozing short articles from time to time. but the main maneue is the above in accordance with educational method, it takes time to understand new concepts and digest ideas in a particular area of learning. hurrying out is not useful. Fuller synthtized what he read, if that has to do with ability in language or some other process i do not know. He could for example give summarization of very complicated book of Bloom (book about IQ) in 2 or 3 pages. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:22:08 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dave suwala Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' "No one wants half-baked implementations to be their legacy, so I am sure that Bucky would support some hard-nosed evaluation of the practicality of this or that. Given that none of us can afford custom tooling for integrated aircraft-like modular housing, we are left with a number of unexploited neat concepts to test and work upon." ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I suppose that this refers to the first of Bucky's housing concepts. It was made of stamped sheet metal with a dome-like top and suspended on a services pillar. It must have been a disaster to heat and cool. I wonder if any of those have survived for our evaluation. Certainly, this would have been expensive in today's terms (custom tooling for integrated aircraft-like modular housing) but Bucky was working with the available materials and technology (silo parts). That first concept must have led eventually to his masterful examination of geodesic concepts for which he is honored in architecture, chemistry. I have been in a geodesic dome recently and this type of structure does bring questions to mind. Who can tolerate non-Cartesian walls from which you cannot hang pictures? And when you erect the vertical walls to divide the interior spaces, does that not destroy the merits of the dome for convection heating/cooling? The dome that I visited was made of conventional construction materials - 2X4s, plywood and asphault shingles. The construction industry is currently developing materials which are marked improvements over those of a few years ago, i.e., foam insulation board, double-pane windows, heat exchangers, etc. However, they are all designed for the warm, cozy, conventional housing that we are all accustomed to. Cape Cod's, Ranches, Split-levels. The problem that a dome builder faces is acceptance by his neighbors, zoning boards, town councils, fire departments. I don't think that geodesic domes will ever be accepted by the ordinary citizen. There is so much Cartesian bias in the world. Maybe we should really be asking the question, "Why hasn't the world accepted the geometry set forth by Bucky in his Synergetics?" Anybody read that (difficult that)? Why not remake our world in terms of triangles instead of squares, triangulating numbers instead of squaring them? Geodesic domes instead of cracker boxes may be possible when society accepts the merits of a non-Cartesian geometry. Dave.Suwala@Reichhold.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:26:23 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: newbie Kirby said: >James Baldwin (author of upcoming Bucky Works publ. Wiley) says he's >built domes in the Arizona desert that got so cold inside he'd have >to get out in the sun to warm up. If the ventilation described by Bucky worked, this would not happen. Cold air sinks relative to hot air, so if the outside temp is warmer than the inside, the cold air within the dome "should" (in the offered theory) sink, exit the vents at the bottom of the dome, and draw in outside air, thus warming the dome to the ambient temperature. The fact the Mr. Baldwin was cold inside and had to go outside shows a clear problem with the theory. It also shows that Mr. Baldwin needed a few south-facing windows... >Seems like there's plenty of anecdotal evidence to bolster Bucky's claim. The particular anecdote related above seems to REFUTE the claim as put forth in the prior message. >I don't think academia has spent nearly enough time/energy studying >the structures be in a position to dismiss or confirm. I agree. Neither have I. Anyone want to fund a study? Anyone want to cut some holes in their domes to test? I repeat that this what I am saying is based upon very rough math. I supposed that Mr. Nick Pine would be able to do better math, as he works in the field of heating/ cooling/HVAC more often than I care to. (Opinion, Nick?) >Something about a sphere having the least surface to enclosed volume >ratio would likely have a bearing on its possibly 'special' thermo >properties. [Sigh...] There is no magic. As I said before - As long as the laws of physics remain the same for domes as for other structures, the "effect" would be much too gentle to work on anything other than a very very calm day. Very calm days are rare. The net impact of the vents may well be NEGATIVE over the range of conditions found in most locations. Reminds me of an old joke. A TV crew is asking people their opinions of man's greatest invention. The usual famous gizmos are mentioned. One man, however, had an unusual choice: "The Thermos". When asked why? He replied: "It keeps hot stuff hot and it keeps cold stuff cold... how DOES it KNOW?" The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 06:54:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Martha Rubin Subject: need dome manufacturers list Somone on this mailing list very kindly forwarded to me a comprehensive list of dome manufacturers in the US. In ftp-ing some files around from one account to another, I inadvertently lost this :( Anyone out there (can't remember the original senders name :( ) still have a copy they would send me by chance? Many thanks, Martha Rubin nrubin@s1.csuhayward.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 14:15:35 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dave suwala Subject: Re: newbie > James Baldwin (author of upcoming Bucky Works publ. Wiley) says > he's built domes in the Arizona desert that got so cold inside > he'd have to get out in the sun to warm up. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Arizona desert can get very cold at night. Without proper insulation, yes, any structure can be expected to lose a lot of heat. Any fair evaluation of a geodesic structure for its suitability as a human habitation must include such background as, insolation, location (heat gain is going to depend on the environment), number of windows, type of windows, insulation ratings (R-values), heating/cooling system. These are the same factors that a solar heating enthusiast pays attention to. Basically, a sphere will have the minimum area for a given volume contained. This should minimize the radiant heat loss. You could only compare a geodesic dome to a conventional structure by making all things be equal except for the shape. That means that the walls must be made of the same materials or at least have the same R-value. The two structures would have to be the same size and have the same sized glazing facing the same direction at the same angle. Size would be easy, but how about the angle of the windows. Not so easy. Put these two structures in the same environment and run them with the same heating/cooling system for a year or two and measure internal conditions and you may have a fair evaluation. How would you deal with the effect of snow cover in the mountains. A conventional house would have to be cleared of snow to prevent collapse whereas a geodesic dome could support the snow load and then you have an insulative layer that could make quite a difference in the demand for heat. It is not so easy to compare the two structures. Let's be fair to Bucky's invention and not give too much credence to apocryphal comments. Don't discourage the dome builders! Dave dave.suwala@reichhold.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 23:40:02 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' > I suppose that this refers to the first of Bucky's housing > concepts. It was made of stamped sheet metal with a dome-like top > and suspended on a services pillar. It must have been a disaster to > heat and cool. I wonder if any of those have survived for our > evaluation. B.F staff have taken one house apart, and put it together again. i think i still have the article about it, but that is all i know. . Who can > tolerate non-Cartesian walls from which you cannot hang pictures? > And when you erect the vertical walls to divide the interior spaces, > does that not destroy the merits of the dome for convection > heating/cooling? this are problems that it is possible to find solution, the main object is the dome, now the rest you must solve interior decoration is a creative art that can make the most agly of places very pleasent and intresting. dont forget the housing rent industry, and the ability to move. the old building will stay, the world in not going to be turned into domes that will be absured. > I don't think that geodesic domes will ever be accepted by the > ordinary citizen. There is so much Cartesian bias in the world. > Maybe we should really be asking the question, "Why hasn't the world > accepted the geometry set forth by Bucky in his Synergetics?" > Anybody read that (difficult that)? Why not remake our world in > terms of triangles instead of squares, triangulating numbers instead > of squaring them? Geodesic domes instead of cracker boxes may be > possible when society accepts the merits of a non-Cartesian > geometry. > if you count how many earth quackes in the last 5 years it is not impossible that geodomes be accepted, i think it will come from unexpected area, and from unexpected idea and individuals.the world is changing fast and what was accepted today will change tommorrow. there are many surprises comming. but let me tell you my experience showing children to make F geometrical forms. it is incredable, it is unbelivable. i been in 2 schools 2 libraries 10 out of 10 children like to build the models some of the younger ones go crazy. the problem socity is uses the xyz and it usfulness is every where and been so for 200 years, so you are not going to say move to VE )4d) geometry just like that, you have alot of work to generate greater applicability. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 22:50:24 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: digest fLUX-staff Subject: **dome manufacturers list** Yes indeed I've got this list from (HE is the hero) Joe Moore. And again anyone with dome experience please contact me so we can get this list up to date. Don't forget BFI@aol.com, they send out the Buckminster Fuller Update once in a blue but *very* helpfull moon. Frank Subj: DOME MANUFS Date: Tue, Aug 29, 1995 3:05 PM EDT From: joemoore@cruzio.com X-From: joemoore@cruzio.com (Joe Moore) To: Dadua@aol.com GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore May 26, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Summer 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: - American Ingenuity Verified: May 1995 8777 Holiday Springs Road ? Rockledge, FL 32955-5805 Tel: 407-639-8777 Fax: 407-639-8778 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Cascade Domes Verified: ? P.O. Box 1977 ? Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Domes America Verified: ? 6345 West Jolie Road ? Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: DomEstic Designs Verified: ? P.O. Box 4203 ? Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 893 Wilson Avenue Joe & Kevin Frawley St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos McCarter Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Wood kits Geodesic Domes & Homes Verified: ? 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Summer 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Bob Davies & Glenn Van Doren Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Hexadome Verified: Summer 1992 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Summer 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: - Key Dome Verified: 4-95 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Winter 92-3 P.O. Box 980427 Einar Thorstein Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: $19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Summer 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Space Domes Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, Dennis & Janet Johnson North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ? 999 Harrison Court Hal Klopp & Bruce Hamilton Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Linda Boothe Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pond-Brook Products Verified: ? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $34.95 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Semispheres Verified: ? 1505 Webster Street ? Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: ugly looking! Shelter Systems Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ? P.O. Box 400 ? Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $39.95 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Temcor Verified: ? 2825 Toledo Street Don Richter Torrance, CA 90503 Tel: Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Timberline Geodesics Verified: June 2, 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Topsider Homes Verified: ? P.O. Box 848 ? Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: 1994 One Penn Plaza New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Summer 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: - National Dome Council Verified: ? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 - DOME (magazine) Verified: Summer 1994 4401 Zepher Stret Donald R. Hoflin Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:17:18 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Re: newbie In Message Thu, 19 Oct 1995 14:15:35 -0500 (EST), dave suwala writes: > The Arizona desert can get very cold at night. Without proper > insulation, yes, any structure can be expected to lose a lot of > heat. Any fair evaluation of a geodesic structure for its > suitability as a human habitation must include such background as, > insolation, location (heat gain is going to depend on the > environment), number of windows, type of windows, insulation ratings > (R-values), heating/cooling system. These are the same factors that > a solar heating enthusiast pays attention to. i am want to ask a stupid question, if these companies working on domes have one billion dollar for research do you think that these problem can be solved. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:38:04 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mohamed tagdi Subject: Re: Design Science and the Internet > >Internet is not entirely anarchic, obviously since its technology has >to remain intercompatible in large degree. The consensus needed is mostly >focused around questions of design. I link the internet to Fuller in >that it is a paradigm example of what Fuller meant by 'artifact'. Far >right and far left content is equally accessible. People with very >different religious, political etc. outlooks use it spontaneously, because >it is a useful design. The way in which the internet is revolutionizing >our life and culture is the way in which Fuller envisioned the design >science revolution taking place in general, e.g. precessionally. according to material research we are going beyond the usual material we use such as steel, aluminum, copper and others to lighter new composite materials and also efficient for the varitey required for particular uses. it is becoming clearer that design is the 99% solution to socity problems the remaining 1% is reform. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:50:05 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dave suwala Subject: Re: newbie >i am want to ask a stupid question, if these companies working on >domes have one billion dollar for research do you think that these >problem can be solved. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Certainly. There are comfortable geodesic domes out there. I simply wanted to point out that the one that James Baldwin built out in the desert may not have been the most modern design. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:25:47 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: newbie dave suwala wrote: > >> The Arizona desert can get very cold at night. Without proper >> insulation, yes, any structure can be expected to lose a lot of >> heat.... and mohamed tagdi replied: > i am want to ask a stupid question, if these companies > working on domes have one billion dollar for research > do you think that these problem can be solved. Billion? With a "B"? My, don't we think big! Heck, a few hundred thousand would allow the construction of a highly instrumented dome (thermocouples everywhere!) and pay some folks to set up the tests. Several low-budget programs were done in the 70s at the universities for other types of structures (mostly solar demo houses). And lots of good data came from it. Don't expect the current "gang in possession" to allocate any US Federal dollars for working on the housing problem - they are too busy trying to keep the "Contract On America" ooops, I should have said "Contract WITH America". (It just FEELS like someone took a contract out on the entire country, in the best mafia tradition.) As an aside, look at the various "build houses for the poor and homeless" grass-roots groups. Habitat For Humanity, for example, builds a nice little standardized house (one of their tricks is that they have built the SAME EXACT HOUSE 20,000 times, thus making the task very predictable). Is it a dome? No. Is it energy efficient? To a certain extent, yes, but not to the extent that it makes the structure more expensive, so it is not as "advanced" as it could be. Rather than spending money to research domes, the money should be spent to give these people a "better" design for a more "traditional" house. Since the design must be executued by mostly untrained labor under the direction of one or two semi-skilled craftsmen, and zoning problems (as well as social problems) would crop up if they tried to do domes, domes are pretty much out of the question. But there are many concepts that can be transfered from the "Bucky Warehouse" any applied to traditional structures. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:51:56 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David F. Watkins" Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' In-Reply-To: <85222.tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl> On Thu, 19 Oct 1995 tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: > > I suppose that this refers to the first of Bucky's housing > > concepts. It was made of stamped sheet metal with a dome-like top > > and suspended on a services pillar. It must have been a disaster to > > heat and cool. I wonder if any of those have survived for our > > evaluation. > > B.F staff have taken one house apart, and put it together > again. i think i still have the article about it, but that > is all i know. > > . Who can The Dymaxion House that was originally constructed in Wichita, Kansas has been disassembled and shipped to the Henry Ford Museum in, I believe, Dearborn, Michigan. I don't have many details, but know that it was to be reassembled in a display at the museum. I've heard that the original schedule for display was delayed because a problem involving discrepancies between the way the house had been installed in Wichita and the original design plans. Something involving the "mast' system seemed to be the problem that had to be resolved. Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:57:09 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David F. Watkins" Subject: Re: Design Science and the Internet In-Reply-To: <41887.tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl> On Fri, 20 Oct 1995, mohamed tagdi wrote: > > according to material research we are going beyond the usual > material we use such as steel, aluminum, copper and others > to lighter new composite materials and also efficient for > the varitey required for particular uses. > it is becoming clearer that design is the 99% solution to socity > problems the remaining 1% is reform. > Is the 1% reform necessary for the 99% design solution to be effective? Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 04:23:20 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' dave suwala wrote: >> Given that none of us can afford custom tooling for integrated >> aircraft-like modular housing, we are left with a number of >> unexploited neat concepts to test and work upon. The tooling was supposed to make the product less expensive. Of course you have to build more than one product :-) > I suppose that this refers to the first of Bucky's housing concepts. > It was made of stamped sheet metal with a dome-like top > and suspended on a services pillar. A pre-Dymaxion house, made from standard silo parts? > It must have been a disaster to heat and cool. Well, energy was cheaper then. It seems to me that the least expensive buildings today are still made of sheet metal, eg painted steel. Steel barns and sheds cost about $5/ft^2 where I live, a lot less than wooden ones, these days. But they probably leak air a lot, and how do you insulate them? Spray sticky cellulose foam on the inside? Is that sufficiently fireproof? Polyurethane isn't. Perhaps fiberglass, with Thermo-Ply or Drywall over that. Or in the case of a shed, just a layer of polyethylene film over that. With a layer of Tyvek next to the steel to control air infiltration? Foil-faced bubble pack has also been used to insulate steel buildings. > Certainly, this would have been expensive in today's terms > (custom tooling for integrated aircraft-like modular housing) Tooling of some sort can help make houses less expensive, and while the tooling costs more than a single homeowner would pay, it may still be within reach of a small company. Computers help too, these days. For instance, engineer Lyle Rawlings at (609) 466-4495 says that Avis Modular Homes in Avis, PA, near Williamsport, use simple tooling, jigs, etc, to make practically any sort of custom modular house, within limits, starting from a sketch, with a relatively small fixed $500 design fee. Once they get started building the house, it takes about 5 days for it to move through their production line, another 2 days to put it up on a site, and 2 or 3 more weeks to hook up the plumbing, etc. The Avis house is better than one built on site. For instance, these houses are said to have an air infiltration rate (air leakiness) of 0.25 air changes per hour at 50 Pascals of pressure, ie about 0.0125 air changes per hour in average winter weather (dividing that 50 Pascal number by 20, using the formula in Nisson and Dutt's _Superinsulated Home Book_) vs. 1 or 2 air changes per hour for an average house. To put this in perspective, a 30' x 30' x 16' tall house contains about 16,000 ft^3, and 1 Btu heats about 55 ft^3 of air 1 degree F, and a gallon of oil as burned in a house today contains some 100,000 Btu, so an Avis house in Philadelphia's 5500 F degree day winter heating season would need about 5500 x 24 h/d x 0.0125 x 16,000/55/100,000 = 4.8 gallons of oil a year to heat the air that naturally leaks out of the house, while an average house that size would need closer to 400 gallons of oil a year, just to take care of the air leakiness, even if it had perfect insulation. The Avis house would probably need some sort of deliberate ventilation, eg an air-air heat exchanger, since the natural air leakiness would only provide about 3 cfm of outside air in the winter. These houses are said to cost less than a house built on site, as well, even with low local labor rates. > I have been in a geodesic dome recently and this type of structure > does bring questions to mind. Who can tolerate non-Cartesian walls > from which you cannot hang pictures? It helps to think round, in the interior design phase, eg pie-shaped rooms with radial walls. If there must be square spaces, eg kitchens or living rooms, those often work better in the center. Maybe you get a different feeling when you live in one of these, vs. just visiting one. When I visit a dome, I know in my head that it has lots of floor space, but it feels small to me, perhaps because I can see the boundaries of the whole structure from the inside, unlike a conventional house, divided up into rooms. I did a little farming on a 126 acre plot 30 years ago, and the open fields looked fairly big to me then, but when I revisited the farm last year, the owners had allowed it to return to nature, and as I walked around the former fields on trails through woods with 6" diameter trees blocking my view, the space felt huge, and very private. Much nicer, it seemed to me. > ...when you erect the vertical walls to divide the interior spaces, > does that not destroy the merits of the dome for convection > heating/cooling? I wouldn't think so. But the floors might, unless they had some holes. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:18:44 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nick Pine Organization: Villanova University Subject: An inexpensive, 100% solar house? Here's a house that looks like it could be 100% solar-heated, while providing close to 100% solar hot water as well, inexpensively... One might start with Jim Cahill's house, designed by engineer Lyle Rawlings at (609) 466-4495. This was manufactured by AvisAmerica at (800) 284-7263, and built by Jim Cahill at (508) 677-3533. It is described in the September/October 1995 issue of Solar Today, pp 24-27. This very nice house in Falmouth, MA (5800 F DD), has 2530 ft^2 of floorspace. The selling price is listed as $185K, including dealer/builder markup and a 2 kW PV system, so the basic price of the house would be about $170K, without the PV system, and about $160K without the backup heating system or other solar features. Building it without a basement should also lower the price. The estimated annual non-solar fuel requirement is the heat equivalent of 140 gallons of oil (although the house has a natural gas-fired forced hot water backup heating system.) Minimal hot water usage would add another 60 gallons of oil a year to that requirement, making 200 gallons of oil per year. How can we lower that backup heating requirement to zero? (One might also ask, why bother to do anything at all to this superinsulated house, with a basic yearly heating bill of $660, but that's another story.) As designed, the house has 419 ft^2 of south-facing glass, with minimal glazing on the other walls. The ceiling has R38 insulation, and the walls are R27. The house has a remarkably low air infiltration rate of 0.0125 ACH, based on a 50 Pascal air infiltration rate of 0.25 ACH. The house is 44' long and 28' wide and two stories tall. The south windows seem to be the biggest heat losers here: Sum (Ai/Ri) = 420 ft^2/R2 + 28'x44'/R38 + (16'(28'+44')x2-420)/R27 windows ceiling walls = 210 + 32 + 70 = 312. It looks like these south windows account for about 70% of the heat loss of the house, ignoring the air infiltration, which is 1/8 of the ceiling loss. The south windows also contribute solar gain, when the sun is shining. Suppose we somehow change this house so most of the south wall is an insulated frame wall, like the rest of the house walls... ("Oh, it will be less dramatic!" :-) And add some curved galvanized steel pipes and plastic glazing to make a low-thermal mass sunspace, with a solar closet behind it. How big will the sunspace and solar closet have to be, in order to provide 100% of the space heating and close to 100% of the hot water for the house? With an insulated south wall, the new sum above becomes about 120 Btu/hr-F. If the average temperature in December is 32 F, the house would need about 100K Btu of heat on an average December day. If the the sunspace provides a net solar gain of say, 750 Btu/ft^2/day, it will have to have 24hr x 120 (68-32) = 138 ft^2 of glazing. Let's make it 200 ft^2, so the solar closet can provide hot water as well. If the sunspace were 16' tall, it would be about 12' wide. The house would look something like this: 28' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44' . . . . . . . 4' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12' sauna? . . . . . ./ clothes drying? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8' . . f . . \ . polycarb roof? . s \ . I added a solar attic here too, for fun, . s \ . using corrugated clear polycarbonate . s \ . plastic, and a fan with a backdraft . s \ . damper at the top, to blow down warm . md. . . . . . . . . . . g . air from the peak of the attic into .. . . the house, where it wends its way back . . . . up to the attic through a motorized . .dhw . . return damper, md. g are airflow grates. . . . . g . . . . . . . . . g . The fan is controlled by an attic fan . . f . . . thermostat in series with a house . . . . . thermostat. This is another way to make . . . <== g . a low-thermal-mass sunspace. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . s is some greenhouse shadecloth (optional), f is 10' of fin-tube radiator pipe, and dhw is a conventional or indirect-fired water heater ("geyser" in the UK), which is heated by natural water convection using the fin-tube as an air-water heat exchanger. The low-thermal mass sunspace ($1000?) would work best with a fan controlled by an attic thermostat and a house thermostat in series, as well as plastic film backdraft dampers, to prevent reverse airflow at night. The solar closet ($500?) would store enough heat for 5 days without any sun, using 5 days x 100K Btu/day /((130F-80F)x 55 gal x 8lb/gal) = 24 55-gallon sealed drums full of water, assuming an initial water temperature of 130 F, and a minimal usable space heating closet water temperature of 80 F. Who will be the first to order one of these houses? Nick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:07:28 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Walt Lockley Subject: Re: Wichita Beech Aircraft House (was 'Annotated Bucky') On Thu, 19 Oct 1995 tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: > > I suppose that this refers to the first of Bucky's housing > > concepts. It was made of stamped sheet metal with a dome-like top > > and suspended on a services pillar. It must have been a disaster to > > heat and cool. I wonder if any of those have survived for our > > evaluation. > > B.F staff have taken one house apart, and put it together > again. i think i still have the article about it, but that > is all i know. > > . Who can The Dymaxion House that was originally constructed in Wichita, Kansas has been disassembled and shipped to the Henry Ford Museum in, I believe, Dearborn, Michigan. I don't have many details, but know that it was to be reassembled in a display at the museum. I've heard that the original schedule for display was delayed because a problem involving discrepancies between the way the house had been installed in Wichita and the original design plans. Something involving the "mast' system seemed to be the problem that had to be resolved. Dave Watkins -------------------------------------------------- The first of Bucky's housing concepts that I know of was the model Dymaxion house shown at Marshall Fields during his lunchtime talks in 1927. The design involved suspending the structure from a central mast. It never progressed beyond the model stage and, yeah, to the casual onlooker it seems like it would be a bear to heat and cool. The postwar Beech Aircraft house design of 1947 or so was shaped more or less like a Big Mac. I seem to remember that there were two full-size prototypes built in Wichita; our friend Charles Peck (are you there, Charles?) posted some very informative stuff to this listserv regarding how fully those mock-ups incorporated Bucky's heating and cooling ideas. One of those prototypes was bought and rebuilt beside a small lake in Wichita as a portion of a larger, more traditional sort of home (walkout basement, etc). I believe that's the house going -- or already gone -- to the Henry Ford Greenfield Village museum complex in Dearborn. Neither the Dymaxion house nor the Beech house are geodesic domes, of course. Residential domes were first built in the early 1960's. Walt klockley@delphi.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 17:48:51 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: steele scott Subject: Re: **dome manufacturers list** Comments: To: JWG9@MARISTB.MARIST.EDU Now, we're cooking with gas. Dad, this is great. Thanks. I'm going to start calling people on this list. ------------- Original Text >From Art Scott , on 10/20/95 12:09 PM: --------------------------- Original Message --------------------------- Yes indeed I've got this list from (HE is the hero) Joe Moore. And again anyone with dome experience please contact me so we can get this list up to date. Don't forget BFI@aol.com, they send out the Buckminster Fuller Update once in a blue but *very* helpfull moon. Frank Subj: DOME MANUFS Date: Tue, Aug 29, 1995 3:05 PM EDT From: joemoore@cruzio.com X-From: joemoore@cruzio.com (Joe Moore) To: Dadua@aol.com GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore May 26, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Summer 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: - American Ingenuity Verified: May 1995 8777 Holiday Springs Road ? Rockledge, FL 32955-5805 Tel: 407-639-8777 Fax: 407-639-8778 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Cascade Domes Verified: ? P.O. Box 1977 ? Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Domes America Verified: ? 6345 West Jolie Road ? Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: DomEstic Designs Verified: ? P.O. Box 4203 ? Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 893 Wilson Avenue Joe & Kevin Frawley St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos McCarter Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Wood kits Geodesic Domes & Homes Verified: ? 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Summer 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Bob Davies & Glenn Van Doren Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Hexadome Verified: Summer 1992 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Summer 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: - Key Dome Verified: 4-95 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Winter 92-3 P.O. Box 980427 Einar Thorstein Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: $19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Summer 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Space Domes Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, Dennis & Janet Johnson North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ? 999 Harrison Court Hal Klopp & Bruce Hamilton Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Linda Boothe Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pond-Brook Products Verified: ? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $34.95 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Semispheres Verified: ? 1505 Webster Street ? Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: ugly looking! Shelter Systems Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ? P.O. Box 400 ? Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $39.95 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Temcor Verified: ? 2825 Toledo Street Don Richter Torrance, CA 90503 Tel: Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Timberline Geodesics Verified: June 2, 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Topsider Homes Verified: ? P.O. Box 848 ? Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: 1994 One Penn Plaza New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Summer 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: - National Dome Council Verified: ? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 - DOME (magazine) Verified: Summer 1994 4401 Zepher Stret Donald R. Hoflin Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:04:38 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Annotated Bucky >Message-Id: <44760.tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl> >To: goedesic@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu >Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' > >>Tooling of some sort can help make houses less expensive, and while the >>tooling costs more than a single homeowner would pay, it may still be within >>reach of a small company. Computers help too, these days. For instance, >>engineer Lyle Rawlings at (609) 466-4495 says that Avis Modular Homes in >>Avis, PA, near Williamsport, use simple tooling, jigs, etc, to make >>practically any sort of custom modular house, within limits, starting from >>a sketch, with a relatively small fixed $500 design fee. Once they get started >>building the house, it takes about 5 days for it to move through their >>production line, another 2 days to put it up on a site, and 2 or 3 more >>weeks to hook up the plumbing, etc. > > what kind of house, is it a dome. how much does it cost, and > how many houses a small company can make. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:06:45 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: newbie >From: >Sender: tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl >Message-Id: <46409.tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl> >To: geodesic@ubvm.cc.buffalo >Subject: Re: newbie > >>> >>>> The Arizona desert can get very cold at night. Without proper >>>> insulation, yes, any structure can be expected to lose a lot of >>>> heat.... >> >> and mohamed tagdi replied: >> >>> i am want to ask a stupid question, if these companies >>> working on domes have one billion dollar for research >>> do you think that these problem can be solved. > > and james replied >> Billion? With a "B"? My, don't we think big! >> Heck, a few hundred thousand would allow the >> construction of a highly instrumented dome >> (thermocouples everywhere!) and pay some folks >> to set up the tests. Several low-budget programs >> were done in the 70s at the universities for >> other types of structures (mostly solar demo >> houses). And lots of good data came from it. >> > if you are dealing on global level is that enough to give > you quick data? think big when it thinkg about dollars. > please what do you mean by instrumented and if you can say > how the experments are going to be set.thanks > > >> Don't expect the current "gang in possession" >> to allocate any US Federal dollars for working >> on the housing problem - they are too busy >> trying to keep the "Contract On America" ooops, >> I should have said "Contract WITH America". >> (It just FEELS like someone took a contract out >> on the entire country, in the best mafia tradition.) > > intrested in how the construction industry work in U.S > can you say few things with nice figures about it. and anybody > reading the list if you know somthing about Wall stree lowyers > and bankers please write. >> > Rather than spending money to research domes, the money >> should be spent to give these people a "better" design >> for a more "traditional" house. Since the design must >> be executued by mostly untrained labor under the direction >> of one or two semi-skilled craftsmen, and zoning problems >> (as well as social problems) would crop up if they >> tried to do domes, domes are pretty much out of the >> question. But there are many concepts that can be >> transfered from the "Bucky Warehouse" any applied >> to traditional structures. > > there are at least 1 billion houses needed around the globe > if you do not make it automated production you going to wait > till year 3000 this small programs are patch work, they do > not deal with the great issues. i for example like the idea > of rent industry, easy to move, changing different living > inveroment, i think i would not mind living in a hotel > if i know i have a choice to move to another one, i think it > is really a fantastic idea. besides we want to move to a > leasure socity, tiring manual work with stupid morals. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:09:12 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: design science > >>On Fri, 20 Oct 1995, mohamed tagdi wrote: >> >>> >>> according to material research we are going beyond the usual >>> material we use such as steel, aluminum, copper and others >>> to lighter new composite materials and also efficient for >>> the varitey required for particular uses. >>> it is becoming clearer that design is the 99% solution to socity >>> problems the remaining 1% is reform. >>> >> >>Is the 1% reform necessary for the 99% design solution to be effective? >> >>Dave Watkins > > the 1% that is going on now needs 99% of infficient dollare, > this might seem to be smart comment, i am not, just personal > observation. i need to learn more but i think they go togther > and now you asking i think the proportion is probably > quite right giving how much tediousness go in kissass business. > > by they way Kirrby the definition is nice. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 23:05:04 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Martha Rubin Subject: question regarding triangles Not being a mathematician, especially not a trignometric specialist, I wonder if someone out there can help with this question: is it possible to have a geodesic dome (living structure of course) of either 3/8, 4/8, or 5/8 type, where all the triangles on it are equilateral? If so, what are the pros and cons of this vs. the traditional varied trianges one sees with most dome kit manufacturers? TIA, Martha Rubin nrubin@s1.csuhayward.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 08:49:42 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marla Broom Subject: hurricanes/domes Is there any information you can share about how domes have done or are suppose to do in high wind, say like a hurricane? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:11:44 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Materials(little summary) basic demand for many basic material has leveled off industiral c are now leaving the era of material between 1975 and 1985 the average weight of the U.S cars feel from 1727 to 1450 kg. 1810 boiler were made of cast iron or sheet iron the ratio of weight to power of a typical locomative waws about 1000 km per horspower, by 1900 the ration is one tenth 1950 25kg per horspower 1980 14kg per horspowr examples of imroved material plastic tiner stronger radial tire durable than bias ply tire aluminum 20% of average weight thin can tinner since 1972 the average price of electricity and coal doubled 1975 5%of all steel in car was high strenght seel or stainles 1985 14%, leads to reducing demand for steel since each kg replaces 1.3 kg of ordinary carbon steel or cast iron 1950 is the start of highway building in the U.S steel, aluminum, ethylene since 1950 only 2 all new integrated steel mills have been built in U.S, the last in the 1960 the steel industry has been effected by leveling off demand longer than any of the other minimills are growing by 10% early 1980 account for 18% of all steel made in U.S whose raw material is scrap. the cheapest electricity in the pacific n west 27 cent per kw, power from coal or neuclear plant 5 - 6 c In Australia Brazil and Canada new power plants that utilizes (hydro coal gas) such possibilities and have been built or under way can provide electricity at less than 2 cents per kwh making Al from scrap cost 4 to 10% as much energy as making it from ore. growth share of secondary sector from 1970 to 1983 20 to 33% of total output the recent expansion which is based largely on the recycling of Al cans, is likely to continue. (hydro coal gas) M.Tadi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 18:05:13 -0400 Reply-To: JFBECKETT Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JFBECKETT Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: need dome manufacturers list I wouldn't mind seeing a copy of that list myself. I have been unable to find any manufacturers of listings of plans thus far on my own. Thanks for the consideration. Jamie Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 21:49:09 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Nelson Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' Hello everyone. I've been trying without success to send mail to MAJORDOMO@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU so that I can remove myself from this list. Can someone help me out? Thanks, Lee Nelson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:45:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Karl Erickson Subject: 1995 Nanotechnology Conference (fwd) Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com thought some of you might be interested in this. nanotechnology seems to me to be the very limit of fuller's 'ephemeralization' - 'doing more with less'. i suspect that the design science revolution will really take off when nanotech finally manifests itself. synergetics seems particularly relevant - not to mention the fact that the 'buckminsterfullerene' (C60) molecule seems a major player in molecular engineering. -k. erixon - setebos@netcom.com Forwarded message: > From foresight@cup.portal.com Sun Oct 22 14:31:15 1995 > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:20:00 -0700 > X-Sender: foresigh@jobe.portal.com (Unverified) > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > To: (Nanotech conf list) > From: foresight@cup.portal.com (Foresight Institute) > Subject: 1995 Nanotechnology Conference > > Registration numbers are running at double expectations; those planning to > attend may want to register now to reserve a space. > > For the latest schedule and abstracts, see the conference Web page at > http://nano.xerox.com/nanotech/nano4.html > > Fourth Foresight Conference on Molecular Nanotechnology > > SUMMARY: The conference will be held November 9-11, 1995, in Palo Alto. It is a > multidisciplinary meeting on molecular nanotechnology, that is, thorough > three-dimensional structural control of materials and devices at the molecular > level. Attendees will include chemists, materials scientists, physicists, > engineers, and computer scientists interested in learning about the field and > participating in its development. For further information, contact > foresight@cup.portal.com or see the Web page listed above. > > ANNOUNCEMENT: > > Fourth Foresight Conference on Molecular Nanotechnology > November 9-11, 1995 > Palo Alto, California > > Sponsor: Foresight Institute > Cosponsors: Caltech Materials and Process Simulation Center > USC Molecular Robotics Lab > Institute for Molecular Manufacturing > > This conference is a meeting of scientists and technologists working in fields > leading toward molecular nanotechnology: thorough three-dimensional structural > control of materials and devices at the molecular level. The conference will > cover topics relevant to the pursuit of molecular control, drawing from fields > such as: > > supramolecular chemistry and self-assembly > proximal probes (e.g. STM, AFM) > biochemistry and protein engineering > computational chemistry and molecular modeling > computer science (e.g. computational models, system design issues) > natural molecular machines (e.g. flagellar motor, ribosome) > materials science > mechanical engineering (CAD) and robotics > > Developments in these fields are converging, opening opportunities for fruitfu l > collaboration in developing new instruments, devices, and capabilities. > > Topics and invited speakers include: > > Donald Brenner, N. Carolina State Univ. > Simulated Engineering of Nanostructures > Richard Colton, NRL > Tip Surface Interactions > Eric Drexler, Institute for Molecular Manufacturing > Directions in Nanotechnology > William A. Goddard III, Caltech > Computational Chemistry and Nanotechnology > Tracy Handel, UC Berkeley > Protein Design > Neil Jacobstein, Teknowledge and Institute for Molecular Manufacturing > Entrepreneuring in Molecular Manufacturing: > Lessons from the Computer Industry > Adm. David Jeremiah, USN (Ret.), Technology Strategies > and Alliances, Nanotechnology and Global Security > Ralph Merkle, Xerox PARC > Design Considerations for an Assembler > Charles Musgrave, MIT > Chemical Synthesis of Nanomachinery > Aristides Requicha, USC > Molecular Robotics > Richard Smalley, Rice University > Nanotechnology at Rice > Fraser J. Stoddart, University of Birmingham > The Art and Science of Self-assembling Molecular Machines > George Whitesides, Harvard > Self-Assembly and Nanotechnology > > FEYNMAN PRIZE > > The 1995 Feynman Prize in Nanotechnology (and accompanying $10,000 award) > will be presented at the Thursday luncheon to the researcher whose recent > work has most advanced the development of molecular nanotechnology. > > CORPORATE SPONSORS > Our thanks to the following companies supporting the conference: > > Key Sponsor: > Apple Computer, Inc. > > Major Sponsors: > Beckman Instruments, Inc. > Molecular Manufacturing Enterprises, Inc. > > Supporting Sponsors: > Weil, Gotshal & Manges > Loral Systems Manufacturing Company > JEOL > > DEMONSTRATIONS > > Leading vendors will demonstrate products useful in the pursuit of molecular > control, including molecular modeling software and hardware, and proximal prob e > systems (e.g. STM). Field trips are planned to Park Scientific, a local > STM proximal probe company. > > JOURNAL & BOOK PUBLICATION OF PROCEEDINGS > > Proceedings of the conference will be refereed and published in a special > issue of the international journal Nanotechnology and later in book form. > Preprints are being made available on the Web: > http://nano.xerox.com/nanotech/nano4.html > > SITE AND ACCOMMODATIONS > > Conference sessions will be held at the Hyatt Hotel in Palo Alto. Accommodatio n > arrangements should be made directly with the hotel. Reservations should be > made by October 23; when making reservations, mention that you are attending > the "Foresight Nanotechnology Conference" to obtain the lower conference room > rate. Deposits in the amount of the first night's stay plus tax are required t o > guarantee reservations; these are refundable up to 6 PM on the date of arrival . > Room rate: $93, single or double occupancy, plus 10% local tax. > > Hyatt Hotel > 4219 El Camino Real > Palo Alto, CA 94306 > (415) 493-8000 tel > (415) 858-1151 fax > > TRANSPORTATION > > The conference site is easily reached from San Francisco International Airport > and San Jose International Airport. Information on ground transportation > services will be mailed to registrants. > > REGISTRATION FORM > > (please print and mail or fax) > > Name: > > Title: Dr. Prof. Ms. Mr. > > Address: > > Tel.: > > Fax: > > Email: > > Position (programmer, professor, director, etc.): > > Organizational affiliation (for your badge): > > How did you hear about this conference: > > The registration fee includes the scientific program, Wednesday evening > reception, Thursday and Friday luncheons, and a copy of the > proceedings journal issue. (Student and one-day rates do not include > proceedings.) Amounts over $100 are tax-deductible as a charitable > contribution. > > Regular $400 > Academic, nonprofit, > governmental $325 > Student $125 > One day (specify day) $160 > > Amount enclosed: $ > > Payment may be made by VISA, MasterCard, check, or international money > order valid in the U.S. Make checks payable to "Foresight Conferences"; > checks and bank drafts must be in U.S. dollars drawn on a U.S. bank. > Refunds of registration fees can only be made on receipt of a written > request which must be postmarked no later than September 15, and are > subject to a $50 administrative fee. Credit card registrations may be > faxed. > > Card #: > > Exp. date: > > Signature (required for credit card registrations): > > > Mail or fax registration to: > > Foresight Institute > Box 61058, Palo Alto CA 94306 USA > Tel. 415-324-2490 Fax 415-324-2497 > Internet: foresight@cup.portal.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:21:24 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David F. Watkins" Subject: Re: 1995 Nanotechnology Conference (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199510231145.EAA05195@netcom3.netcom.com> On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, Karl Erickson wrote: > thought some of you might be interested in this. nanotechnology seems to me > to be the very limit of fuller's 'ephemeralization' - 'doing more with > less'. i suspect that the design science revolution will really take off > when nanotech finally manifests itself. synergetics seems particularly > relevant - not to mention the fact that the 'buckminsterfullerene' (C60) > molecule seems a major player in molecular engineering. > > -k. erixon - setebos@netcom.com I agree Karl, when reading about nanotechnology I am constantly reminded of Fuller. The need for a comprehensive rather than specialized approach is necessary in nanotechnology and a requirement clearly identified in the literature. Fuller often spoke of pollution as the failure to fully utilize all of the natural products involved in a process. One of the more intriguing nanotechnology prospects would be to mine the CO2 in the atmosphere, using sunlight as an energy source, to produce high strength carbon based building materials. Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 06:18:59 -0400 Reply-To: JustWINK Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: question regarding triangles Martha Rubin asks- >is it >possible to have a geodesic dome (living structure of course) of >either 3/8, 4/8, or 5/8 type, where all the triangles on it are >equilateral? This is a wonderful question which relates to the most fundamental properties of space itself. It is also a problem nicely solved by simple model building. If we assume that the structure will have a finite interior and will be convex (a straight line between any two interior locations will be completely inside the structure) the answer is a qualified yes. Consider the possibilities at each vertex or hub: 2 triangles per V is not relevant. 3 tri's per V = tetrahedron (triangular pyramid). 4 tri's per V = octahedron (2 square pyramids joined by square, kind of). 5 tri's per V = icosahedron (just build one if you don't know). 6 tri's per V tiles a plane, and more than 6 are not useful here. So, we can make some very simple structures. The tetra makes kind of a pyramid, using 3 of its 4 faces and an open trianglular base (8/8?). The octa makes a traditional pyramid, using 4 of its 8 faces (4/8) and the icosa makes the simplest "geodesic dome"- 15 of its 20 faces and a pentagonal base opening (5/8 or so). A 1-frequency geodesic dome of vertex orientation in the lingo of domebuilders. The creation of non-regular triangles to create near-spherical faceted shells is, of course, the stuff of traditional geodesics, a somewhat mis-named science actually. A geodesic is the shortest path between two points on a surface- in the case of a sphere, part of a great circle. These three examples complete the classic formal solutions, but you can relax the condition that the structure be convex and yield some interesting cases. This means essentially abandoning the principle of geodesics that keeps all the vertices equi-distant from the shapes center. Shapes with regular triangular faces are known to mathematicians as regular deltahedra and have been extensively studied. One worth mentioning here can be imagined by putting 5-triangle "caps" on each pentagonal face of a dodecahedron. This makes a spiky kind of shape with 12x5=60 tri faces. Knock off 5 to make an open base and you have a sort of dome. The utilitarian value of these shapes is another question. You can buy steel hubs to build a 2x4 icosa-dome (mentioned earlier), but I would question the value of sticking to equilateral triangles as building units in structures of any size. It's not like you can buy them at the lumberyard, after all. One of the most interesting aspects of geodesics and other non-traditional geometries is using right-angle material formats efficiently. Not easy, but very rewarding when done well. I might also point out a bias that underlies this line of reasoning. Triangles are widely taken as a hallmark element of geodesics, but this overlooks an important aspect of structures. It is based on thinking of domes as being built of struts. They frequently are, but many of the domes that find practical use are essentially shells. Many who have played with dome models will remember their surprise upon taping together cardboard triangles to build a hemispherical geodesic only to find the whole assembly flopping around like a limp noodle until it is placed on a flat surface, providing closure of the form by completing the last face (the base). Not so many followed up and looked at the other side of the principle by building a hexagon-pentagon version, 3 faces meeting at each and every vertex. If they had, they would have found that the structure assumed a kind of local rigidity as soon as 3 faces were joined, and that the whole hemisphere maintained a type of rigidity. In this case the 3-valent vertices of the planar faces are counterparts to the triangle made of struts. Assemble more than 3 faces at a vertex and you will create the same kind of floppiness that occurs when you loop more than 3 struts with flexible connectors. This has been explored extensively by Ture Wester at the Structual Morphology Group (Laboratory for Plate Structures) in Denmark. His excellent book "Structural Order in Space - the plate-lattice dualism" can be ordered from him (email me for info). Bucky utilized these principles very early on, but never really articulated them the way Ture has. Charles "Wink" Peck wink@southwind.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:07:53 -0400 Reply-To: JustWINK Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Wichita Beech Aircraft House (was 'Annotated Bucky') I won't rehash my opinions of the Wichita/Dymaxion house here, but will summarize very briefly: Two "prototypes" were built at Beech Aircraft (now, sadly, Raytheon Aircraft). There is little agreement as to why the commercial aspects of the project fizzled and many reasons have been given by Bucky and others. A local oilman who was an investor in the project ended up with them and had one of them assembled by a lake east of Wichita, in a manner most unlike the original concept, making modifications that, according to Bucky, "forever grounded this aeroplane." It was expanded as his family grew until they moved to another house (designed by Bruce Goff). It was rented for a while then abandoned to the elements. Finally, the Fuller Institute got permission to disassemble it and send it to the Ford Museum in Michigan. It is there now and has proved a difficult project. One of the most challenging issues involved just how to present it, since the so-called prototypes were actually proof-of-concept engineering testbeds, containing very few of the interior components that make a shell a home. I believe that the actual reassembly has just started. If I hear more I will certainly post it here. For a pretty good look at the original project, see Marks "The Dymaxion World of B.F." Charles "Wink" Peck wink@southwind.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:07:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Martha Rubin Subject: more questions regarding domes Justwink@aol.com wrote: "Many who have played with dome models will remember their surprise upon taping together cardboard triangles to build a hemispherical geodesic only to find the whole assembly flopping around like a limp noodle until it is placed on a flat surface, providing closure of the form by completing the last face (the base)." ----- This brings up an interesting question. I'm interested in buildling a dome, and although not at all into engineering, I understand the principle that the dome once completed, must "rest" on it's flat surface in order to be stable. But, apart from the perimeter flat structure, would a floor (meaning the flat space connecting the perimeter sides) contribute to the stability. If so, can it be pierced, and to what degree? The reason I ask this, is that I envision (and want to know if it would work) a typical dome, where the perimeter rests as is usual on the perimeter foundation. But each floor instead of being one level connecting these sides, is instead chopped up, and converted to split level living. This would be like you are in one room, you go up 7 stairs to another room 4' above, then 7 more stairs to another room 4' above, sort of zigzaggin between halfs (or whatever fraction) of the dome. Does anyone know if this is possible in a traditional traingle strut wood dome? TIA Martha Rubin nrubin@s1.csuhayward.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 21:28:08 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Nanotechnology In Message Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:45:58 -0700, Karl Erickson writes: >thought some of you might be interested in this. nanotechnology seems to me >to be the very limit of fuller's 'ephemeralization' - 'doing more with >less'. i suspect that the design science revolution will really take off >when nanotech finally manifests itself. synergetics seems particularly >relevant - not to mention the fact that the 'buckminsterfullerene' (C60) >molecule seems a major player in molecular engineering. tagdi Fuller clamied that utopia can be accomplished in 10 years from 1970 to 1980. then there was no nano tech, i think there is somthing missing, he also said that the most important task is to get to educate humanity about the minumum variable that will lead to everyone success. i do not see much doen about education, i think may be it is important to get the information so that as many people know. also said that by 2000 100% well to do schedualed by nature. lacking the knowldge one does not know what is beneficial to do. Newton indexed his notes circlar relation words about relation outside relation inside relation far out relation organization would be important link. fuller utopia differe from historical ones in that he had a map for accomplishing it a recent book about fuller mention that fuller had litteraly a blue print to how the world can solve it is problem. to check hands with one million people it would take 2 years if you spend one minute checking hands with each one. approximatly,i am thinking of branches to inject matarial in the circle of intelegencia. what you need is "simple" catalogous that give the relation to the whole. may be through books, most of the books now days are about one subject pushing in one direction. gaia books are too romantic to get serious hearing and it is not dealing with the issues. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:30:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Futhey Subject: Re: question regarding triangles Comments: To: JustWINK JustWINK wrote: > > Martha Rubin asks- > >is it > >possible to have a geodesic dome (living structure of course) of > >either 3/8, 4/8, or 5/8 type, where all the triangles on it are > >equilateral? Big Snip I have a dome design that is not geodesic and, because it is not convex, does not have the high volume to area ratio, but it has 64 faces (1/2 polyhedran) all of which are equilatreral triangles. Because it is loosely based on an octahedron, it has the added advantage of being essentially a square footprint. This makes it much easier to use conventional furniture, cabinetry, etc. I have not analyzed it, but models of it seem very rigid and strong. Drop me a not if you are interested. John Futhey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 21:51:31 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Materials(little summary) >1810 boiler were made of cast iron or sheet iron the ratio >of weight to power of a typical locomative was about >1000 km per horspower, by 1900 the ration is one tenth >1950 25kg per horspower 1980 14kg per horspowr one farmer produced food for 2 or 3 people in 1860 in 1960 one produced for over 30 people. 80 or 90% are farmers verses 2% in 1980. material science gives feeling of boynance, we are totally saturated with tech and have very little knowldge of how to deal with it. i am banging on the doors of ignorance, may few will open. the age of sail came to an end in 1928 just around the time britan lost her closed system empire. at the time she had 200 million sterlling of gold stored, the sympol of wealth, it is about the time that wealth became associated with energy Fuller have found, the more energy you have the wealthy you are. i found that when i am angry i feel somthing do somthing will, what was it ee.comming ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:11:54 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: digest fLUX-staff Subject: Go out and build a dome Comments: cc: JFBECKETT@aol.com To build a dome try the following list, and if you get more information to update/verify this list please forward it to me. Thanks Frank Rothkamm dadua@aol.com GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore May 26, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Summer 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: - American Ingenuity Verified: May 1995 8777 Holiday Springs Road ? Rockledge, FL 32955-5805 Tel: 407-639-8777 Fax: 407-639-8778 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Cascade Domes Verified: ? P.O. Box 1977 ? Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Domes America Verified: ? 6345 West Jolie Road ? Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: DomEstic Designs Verified: ? P.O. Box 4203 ? Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 893 Wilson Avenue Joe & Kevin Frawley St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos McCarter Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Wood kits Geodesic Domes & Homes Verified: ? 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Summer 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Bob Davies & Glenn Van Doren Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Hexadome Verified: Summer 1992 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Summer 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: - Key Dome Verified: 4-95 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Winter 92-3 P.O. Box 980427 Einar Thorstein Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: $19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Summer 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Space Domes Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, Dennis & Janet Johnson North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ? 999 Harrison Court Hal Klopp & Bruce Hamilton Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Linda Boothe Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pond-Brook Products Verified: ? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $34.95 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Semispheres Verified: ? 1505 Webster Street ? Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: ugly looking! Shelter Systems Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ? P.O. Box 400 ? Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $39.95 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Temcor Verified: ? 2825 Toledo Street Don Richter Torrance, CA 90503 Tel: Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Timberline Geodesics Verified: June 2, 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Topsider Homes Verified: ? P.O. Box 848 ? Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: 1994 One Penn Plaza New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Summer 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: - National Dome Council Verified: ? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 - DOME (magazine) Verified: Summer 1994 4401 Zepher Stret Donald R. Hoflin Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:38:44 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Anyone out there??? In-Reply-To: <44agik$4ap@pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com>; from "Anthony Kalenak" at Sep 26, 95 11:31 pm Anthony Kalenak writes: > > There is a gold mine of info in past postings...and in the archives. > Hey, Joe....where are you? > .- > I injured my back and couldn't participate for the last two months, but I'm "back" now! Have to get regular exercise and spend less time sitting in front of my computer, or else.... Joe -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:17:13 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Geodesic Math (fwd) Comments: To: Synergetics List Jay Salsburg writes: > From ns1.unicomp.net!mailhost.prysm.com!wizard Fri Sep 29 23:05:50 1995 > Message-Id: <9509300615.AA16300@ns1.unicomp.net> > Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 06:08:49 0500 > From: Jay Salsburg > Organization: Critical Path Design Sciences > X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Geodesic Math > X-Url: http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bfvi.html > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello > > My name is Jay Salsburg. I worked with Bucky in the early eighties on > the Fly's eye. > > I have several software applications for geodesic math. I have been > developing them for seven years. They represent the most advanced > treatment of geodesic math yet devised. > > I wonder if your home page would be interested in a link to my home page > - prysm.com/nightlife/Virtual_Ark_La_Tex. It is new and under > construction, but will soon contain demo geodesic math software that may > be downloaded. > > > > .- > -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:00:35 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: geodesic buckminster (fwd) SIFT Netnews writes: > From hotpage.stanford.edu!netnews Wed Oct 18 23:28:31 1995 > Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 23:35:41 -0700 > Message-Id: <9510190635.AA26949@hotpage.Stanford.EDU> > Subject: geodesic buckminster > From: SIFT Netnews > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at mail.cruzi o.com > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Subscription 1: geodesic buckminster > > Article: rec.arts.disney.parks.5678 > Message-ID: <461h08$c18@news.bt.net> > From: Graham Bartram > Subject: Re: Spaceship Earth Technical Request > Score: 100 > First 20 lines: > In article <45sekj$glj@spectator.cris.com> Rusty Wyatt, wyattr@cris.com > writes: > >I do know that the triangles that make up the exterior are not the same > >size. In fact there are, I believe, 12 hubs in the pieces and at that > >part the triangles fan out to other hubs. > > > I once had to build a 3D model of a geodesic dome on my computer. I seem > to remember that the trick was that the surface is composed of a number > of hexagons surrounded by pentagons (or vice-versa). The structure is > basically that of a soccer ball, with the pentagons and hexagons dived > into a set of five or six triangles that all share a common point. You > could probably find more info if you looked up an organic chemistry > textbook on "buckminster-fullerene", the isotopes of Carbon that use this > structure, commonly called "Bucky Balls". > Hope this helps, > Air do shlainte! > Graham Bartram > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > For help information, send email HotPage Server > with word 'help' in message body netnews@hotpage.stanford.edu > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > .- > -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:11:44 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: digest fLUX-staff Subject: Geodesic? No, thanks! Comments: cc: lnelson@access.digex.net To remove yourself from the list try LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU with unsubscribe in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:21:06 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: hurricanes/domes In-Reply-To: <009983E3.CB0752C0.40@saumag.edu>; from "Marla Broom" at Oct 22, 95 8:49 am Marla Broom writes: > > Is there any information you can share about how domes have done or are > suppose to do in high wind, say like a hurricane? > .- > Domes have been tested in winds of up to 182 mph. They withstood static loads of up to 220 mph. See 'Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller', pages 61 and 209. Joe -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 21:42:31 -0400 Reply-To: Gordon L Smith Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gordon L Smith Subject: Re: Anyone out there??? Dear Joe, Have you read "Healing Back Pain" by Sarno? I had back pain for 20 years,until I read his book. Best Wishes, Gosmithgone....................... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:13:43 GMT Reply-To: tandrews@isn.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Swerdna Ddot Organization: Seldom, but sometimes Subject: Re: need dome manufacturers list Martha Rubin made known literally that: >Somone on this mailing list very kindly forwarded to me a comprehensive >list of dome manufacturers in the US. In ftp-ing some files around >from one account to another, I inadvertently lost this :( Anyone >out there (can't remember the original senders name :( ) still have >a copy they would send me by chance? >Many thanks, >Martha Rubin >nrubin@s1.csuhayward.edu You could try a webcrawler search for "kingdome" Just a thought. tandrews@isn.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 01:00:19 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marcia Blackburn Organization: Binghamton University, Binghamton, NY Subject: Re: Wichita Beech Aircraft House (was 'Annotated Bucky') In-Reply-To: <46g0ip$ao0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> I have been in contact with Christian Overland, who is the project director for the conservation and reconstruction of the Wichita House at the Ford Museum. He doesn't see the house being reassembled and exhibited for a few years, since his team discovered after disassembling it that the house had deteriorated more than they originally thought. Specifically, half of the house was marred by a dirt foundation which ate into the alloy. So, as a result, Christian's team is having to invent new ways of preserving and, in some cases, recreating pieces that have deteriorated beyond the saving point. If I find out anything more, I'll let the list know. - Marcia Blackburn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 09:50:04 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Anyone out there??? >> .- >> >I injured my back and couldn't participate for the last two months, but I'm >"back" now! Have to get regular exercise and spend less time sitting in front >of my computer, or else.... > >Joe i hope it is not serious. Tagdi > >JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 >850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 >CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:02:45 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: score:100 (geodesicFuller) >In Message Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:00:35 -0700 (PDT), > Joe Moore writes: >>> >I do know that the triangles that make up the exterior are not the same >>> >size. In fact there are, I believe, 12 hubs in the pieces and at that >>> >part the triangles fan out to other hubs. >>> > >>> I once had to build a 3D model of a geodesic dome on my computer. I seem >>> to remember that the trick was that the surface is composed of a number >>> of hexagons surrounded by pentagons (or vice-versa). The structure is >>> basically that of a soccer ball, with the pentagons and hexagons dived >>> into a set of five or six triangles that all share a common point. You >>> could probably find more info if you looked up an organic chemistry >>> textbook on "buckminster-fullerene", the isotopes of Carbon that use this >>> structure, commonly called "Bucky Balls". >> > the common score ball (ithink 2ficosa) have one hexgon in the top and then surrounded > by 3 hex and 3 pentgon in alternate manner. > this goes for the bottom also. i had asked similar quesion. > > nature geometry is scatered randomelly in the plant, mineral > and animal kingdom. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:43:05 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: Anyone out there??? I know this is getting off the list's topic, but I'll add my support and praises for "Healing Back Pain" by Sarno. I'll be happy to share my own results and the results of others. And, we encourage you to read the book. Faithfully, Christopher ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 16:26:53 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mike Markowski Organization: University of Delaware, Newark Subject: Re: Geodesic Math (fwd) In article , Joe Moore wrote: >Jay Salsburg writes: >> >> I wonder if your home page would be interested in a link to my home page >> - prysm.com/nightlife/Virtual_Ark_La_Tex. It is new and under >> construction, but will soon contain demo geodesic math software that may >> be downloaded. In case anyone is having trouble, the full URL is actually: http://www.prysm.com/nightlife/Virtual_Ark_La_Tex.html though the software doesn't seem to be there yet... Mike -- Mike Markowski http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~markowsk/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:45:21 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Cities An average Brithish city has 770 miles of pavment 844 acres of park and open spaces 182,000 people 74,000 houses 95 schools from the Gardian primary teachers are midiocre they have very little knowldge the are indostrous moving about. 2biilion dollars spent on higher education in the Us 1980 in the hope to creat greative scientest. primary schools in general over all in the world have lowest budget. 18 - 19 century educators in general thought children were passive. humanity greatest ability which is the ability to learn by making mistakes is hocked to punishment. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:02:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Philadelphia's Complete Internet Provider Subject: 3D Modelling Study Group Forming We will be meeting Thursday, October 26, from 5:30pm-7:30pm at Cyber Loft, 1525 Chestnut ST, Philadelphia. The first meeting will feature a show-and-tell and discussion. The Study Gruop will discuss a variety of topics, depending on the interests of the participants. Including: * building and discussing 3d models * symmetry in spatial shapes * virtual computer models of geometric shapes * photo-realistic rendering of pictures of 3D computer models * bibliographic references to related published work * mathematical methods for describing geometric structures The Study Group is cost-free, except for the expense of modeling materials. -- Christopher J. Fearnley | UNIX SIG Leader at PACS cjf@netaxs.com (finger me!) | (Philadelphia Area Computer Society) cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us | Design Science Revolutionary http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf | Explorer in Universe "Dare to be Naive" -- Bucky Fuller | Linux Advocate ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:58:08 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: ARTICLES CI There are 5 items in the July '95 issue of the _Chemical Intelligencer_, a Springer-Verlag magazine, that are relevant to Bucky's work: "Discoverers of Buckminsterfullerene" by Istvan Hargittai on pages 6-26. Interviews with Eiji Osawa, Harold Kroto, I.V.Stankevich and Richard Smally. "Zometool" on page 37. A model-building kit ad. P.O.Box 7053, Dept. MI, Boulder, CO 80306-7053. TEL: 303-786-9888; FAX: 303-786-7312; E-MAIL: zometool@aol.com "Nomenclature of Fullerenes" by Roger Taylor on pages 48-51; A standard method for naming fullerenes. "The Naming of Buckminsterfullerene" by E.J.Applewhite on pages 52-54. An inside look into how the naming came about. "Reviews" by Istvan Hargittai on pages 59-61. A review of 6 books about fullerenes. On page 2 is the following quote: "The Canada Institute for Scientific and Technical Information (CISTI) provides a comprehensive, world-wide document delivery service for all Springer-Verlag journals. For more information, or to place an order for a copyright-cleared Springer-Verlag document, please contact Client Assistant, Document Delivery Canada Institute for Scientific and Technical Information Ottawa K1A 0S2, Canada. TEL: 613-993-9251; FAX: 613-952-8243;.E-MAIL: cisti.docdel@nrc.ca -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:42:29 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: RONALD FAST Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada. Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' : if you count how many earth quackes in the last 5 years : it is not impossible that geodomes be accepted, i think : it will come from unexpected area, and from unexpected : idea and individuals.the world is changing fast and : what was accepted today will change tommorrow. there : are many surprises comming. : but let me tell you my experience showing children : to make F geometrical forms. it is incredable, : it is unbelivable. i been in 2 schools 2 libraries : 10 out of 10 children like to build the models : some of the younger ones go crazy. the problem : socity is uses the xyz and it usfulness is every where : and been so for 200 years, so you are not going to : say move to VE )4d) geometry just like that, you have : alot of work to generate greater applicability. Is this geodesic grammatical structure and spelling? I haven't seen the like before.-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:43:13 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: 'Annotated Bucky' In Message Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:42:29 +0000 (GMT), RONALD FAST writes: >: if you count how many earth quackes in the last 5 years >: it is not impossible that geodomes be accepted, i think >: it will come from unexpected area, and from unexpected >: idea and individuals.the world is changing fast and >: what was accepted today will change tommorrow. there >: are many surprises comming. >: but let me tell you my experience showing children >: to make F geometrical forms. it is incredable, >: it is unbelivable. i been in 2 schools 2 libraries >: 10 out of 10 children like to build the models >: some of the younger ones go crazy. the problem >: socity is uses the xyz and it usfulness is every where >: and been so for 200 years, so you are not going to >: say move to VE )4d) geometry just like that, you have >: alot of work to generate greater applicability. > >Is this geodesic grammatical structure and spelling? I haven't seen the >like before.-- are you Nabokov or Shelly, i am sure that you can't write two sentence in a good prose. i do not see why you are complaning. i never took grammer course and i do not have the money to pay for education it is more humuliating when english is your native tongue and you have been learning it for 30 years and you still cant compose somthing. anyway does it mean that you are intelligent if you know how to spell or write. does it effect your sensitive brain. and besides white folks never allow you to do anything, you just sit on your ass and complain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:38:02 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Steady tagdi I have been curious about tagdi's background since he/she does fracture english frequently. Might I inquire without raising racist wrath? Although I admit that I am seated on my pale posterior as I write. Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 20:34:26 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Steady tagdi In Message Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:38:02 +0000 (GMT), Steven L Combs writes: > I have been curious about tagdi's background since he/she does >fracture english frequently. Might I inquire without raising racist wrath? >Although I admit that I am seated on my pale posterior as I write. >Sincerely, >Steven Combs >Syncorswim, Inc. I am only sharing some information, if you cant read it no body is forcing you. if you have an advice you can send it privatly in the last year i am having extremly hard time. i want to use the dictionary, but due to having a lot of stress i forget or to tired to worry about it . to me the e mail is inviting, i know that not all the ideas and information i send is of good quality, the email is a sort of addiction. i have never took a course in english language, i just red. I been studying for the last five year numourous areas. last year i heard about geodesic i got sort of mad, here are some people who are not afraid learn different material, i was isolated since i could not find anybody who does the same study. i thought that being comprhensive means that i should read everything, i did, but i got muddeled, confused you might say i running after time, I am from a country which could ? so i feel treat even if there isn't. my background is very complicate and sad, and i am not looking for merssy from no one, if it does not work in this group the hell with it. holland is not a country when i can get feedback in english and the dutch language is difficult and mixes my english. i also suffer from extrem exclusion my demand is higher than white folks think, i am not using words becuse i am dueling in this subject much but i am excluded and it is totally insane to see eurpeans or americans seeing only there bleached faces, i am speaking in general. clusters of white cells. so here some of my background, you really do not want to here the rest. i am 42 and i come from libya, i lived in the US 11 years, 4 of which were illegal and with very little money. i do not share the american culture, i have a bit feel for it but i came there when i was 20 and you know the rest. i thought my name comes out with the email as Mohamed. i think that if you do not figure out that this is a man talking there must be somthing rong with your reading. I am just an average person, have no intrest in holding a respectable aura about me, i see no need to invite morality. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 19:12:39 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Steady tagdi In-Reply-To: <74069.tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl>; from "tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL" at Oct 26, 95 8:34 pm I think we are primarily interested in people's ideas as related to Fuller's work. If their english is a little shakey, so be it. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 01:08:05 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 127 House Organization: 127 House Subject: For Sale: Critical Path - Proof Edition For Sale: Fuller, R. Buckminster Critical Path St. Martin's Press, New York 1981 Uncorrected Page Proof edition, Wraps, Fine Condition This is the uncorrected page proof edtion of Critical Path; that means this is what was sent to reviewers _before_ the first edition was published, so that reviews could appear at the same time the book did. Proof editions are also used by copy editors for spotting errors, and by authors as a final chance to revise their work. A page-by-page comparison of this proof edition with subsequent editions might reveal differences in content, but it is also possible the differences lie merely in form: this is a simple paperback lacking page numbers. The cover features a sea monster drawn by RBF. This proof is the bridge between the author's manuscript and the first published edition, something of a critical path in itself. $20.00 (plus postage) minimum bid. Best offer by 31 October 1995 wins. Please respond directly to the address below and best of luck! - Trevor Blake 127 House - An Independent Archive of Systematic Ideology Post Office Box 2321 Portland OR 97208-2321 United States house127@teleport.com - http://www.teleport.com/~house127 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:45:00 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Steady tagdi In Message Thu, 26 Oct 1995 19:12:39 -0700 (PDT), Joe Moore writes: >I think we are primarily interested in people's ideas as related to Fuller's >work. If their english is a little shakey, so be it. > thanks Joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:54:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Andrea Chase Subject: new bucky book I just found this list so forgive if this is old news here. Has anyone heard anything about the new book about Fuller? Buckyworks by J. Baldwin. Vera ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 10:39:51 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: BUCKY'S COMPUTER THE ULTIMATE COMPUTER The October 1995 issue of _Scientific American_ has an article entitled "Quantum-Mechanical Computers" by Seth Lloyd on pages 140-45. It describes the latest research in Quantum-Mechanical computers and has 5 references to other relevant articles. Research has accelerated in the last year or two. We seem to be getting closer to Bucky's Ultimate Computer which stores info on individual electrons. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 14:36:15 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: ERGY GRID GLOBAL ENERGY GRID STATUS The July 8, 1995 issue of the _New Scientist_ magazine has an article entitled "The International Grid" by staff on pages 38-42 about the current status of Fuller's Global Energy Grid proposal. It discusses projects in Africa, North America, China, southeast Asia, Malaysia, India, South America, and Europe. The GEG is happening! -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 22:35:43 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Anyone out there??? Joe, Swimming worked well for me. Bill Lauritzen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 11:33:13 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Linkage chronofile Variables (catagories) that connect different areas of learning to each other and to humans. Design advantage Rates of use (ex energy, material per person) Design and invention introduction (time of apperance) Location and routs of movments(material energy,. ect) Saving Cost Sales Assets Labour the above catagories is used in economics, design, transport geography, history of science, history of technology politics, business, buracracy and adminstration and others. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 07:29:55 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gil Friend Subject: Re: Linkage chronofile At 3:33 AM 10/28/95, tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: >Variables (catagories) that connect different areas of learning >to each other and to humans. > >Design advantage > >Rates of use (ex energy, material per person) > >Design and invention introduction (time of apperance) > >Location and routs of movments(material energy,. ect) > >Saving >Cost >Sales >Assets >Labour > >the above catagories is used in economics, design, transport >geography, history of science, history of technology >politics, business, buracracy and adminstration and others. This is a very interesting list. But what does it refer to? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 09:16:41 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: BADBACK In-Reply-To: <46s4tv$78d@newsbf02.news.aol.com>; from "WLauritzen" at Oct 27, 95 10:35 pm WLauritzen writes: > > Joe, > > Swimming worked well for me. > > Bill Lauritzen > .- > I've been taking walks on the beach; so far it seems to be working. It seems that bad backs is an occupational hazard for those who sit in front of computers. I want to thank everyone for their kind words and advice. It is a heck of a way to find out that one is missed! -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 09:47:13 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: new bucky book In-Reply-To: ; from "Andrea Chase" at Oct 27, 95 9:54 am Andrea Chase writes: > > I just found this list so forgive if this is old news here. > > > Has anyone heard anything about the new book about Fuller? Buckyworks by > J. Baldwin. > > Vera > .- > It is my understanding that 'Bucky Works' by Jay Baldwin is supposed to be published this year by John Wiley & Sons. You might try contacting the publisher; if you find out anything would you mind posting it? Jay writes for _Whole Earth Review_ magazine. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:55:01 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: BFVI UPDATE THE BUCKY FULLER VIRTUAL INSTITUTE (BFVI) by Joe S. Moore Updated Oct 28, 1995 * = New or Changed PD = Public Domain *Please Send Any Additions, Deletions or Corrections to joemoore@cruzio.com =========================================================================== TABLE OF CONTENTS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER AGRICULTURE FTP ORGANIZATIONS ARCHIVES FULLERENES ATMOSPHERE PATENTS GENERAL PICTURES BOOKS GEOMETRY POPULATION GLOSSARY CALENDARS QUOTES CITIES IRC CLASSES SEARCH CLOTHING LISTS SIMULATIONS STATISTICS DEBT MAGAZINES DEMOCRACY MAPS TRANSPORTATION DOMES MEDIA, MAGNETIC MEDICAL UPDATE ENERGY, RENEWABLE MUSIC EDUCATION WATER NEWSGROUPS NEWSLETTERS =========================================================================== GENERAL INFORMATION: OVERVIEWS, SUMMARIES, ETC. ARTICLES, ESSAYS, ETC. (ELECTRONIC) Bucky Fuller (Robert A. Wilson) http://www.nets.com/site/raw/fuller.html Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute (Richard Henderson & Joe Moore) http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bucky.html Bucky's Grand Strategy (Joe S. Moore) http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bucky.html * Central Intelligence Agency (US) World Factbooks * http://www.ic.gov/ Doing the Right Things (Medard Gabel & Evan Frisch) http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/doright.html Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (Chris Fearnley) http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf/fuller-faq.html Guinea Pig "B" (from 'Inventions') (R. Buckminster Fuller) * http://www.westnet.com/~crywalt/inventions/inv_000.html * United Nations * http://www.undep.or.at/unlinks.html World Game (Robert A. Wilson) http://www.nets.com/site/raw/game.html World Game Home Page (Chuck Dingee) http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drhome.html What the World Wants...and How to Pay for It (WGI staff) http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/wwants.html DATABASES Bucky Public Domain (Moore) ftp://switchboard.ftp.com/bucky/RBFdb.lha Global Recall (WGI) XTM00002@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU FILTERING SERVICES NetNews Filtering Server (Body: "help") netnews@db.stanford.edu PICTURES Bucky Public Domain 1A http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/jm_gall.html Bucky Public Domain 1B http://switchboard.ftp.com/1/BF Bucky Public Domain 2 http://www.newciv.org/Bucky/BuckyPics.html Planet Earth 1 http://www.nosc.mil/planet_earth/photos.html Planet Earth 2 http://www.nosc.mil/planet_earth/earth_images.html Satellite Images http://gopher.awis.auburn.edu:70/I/images/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AGRICULTURE DEFORESTATION WGI http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drsust.html#SUS2 FOOD WGI http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drfeed.html NEWSGROUPS Food sci.agriculture SOIL EROSION WGI http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drsust.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ARCHIVES, SEARCHABLE Geodesic listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ATMOSPHERE ANIMATIONS Spherical Anims of Earth's Cloudforms (Pending; Eric J. Morris; PC?) Spherical Visions eric@pacificrim.net OZONE DEPLETION ARTICLES WGI http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drsust.html#SUS3 WARMING, GLOBAL ARTICLES Global Warming WGI http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drsust.html#SUS5 SIMULATIONS Windows for Image (Greenhouse Effect Simulation & Analysis; IBM-PC) ME ftp://ftp.santafe.edu/pub/gmk/2050/Modeling/wim94-demo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- BIBLIOGRAPHIES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- BOOKS (PAPER UNLESS NOTED "D" FOR DIGITAL) BY BUCKY 4D Timelock bfi@aol.com And It Came to Pass--Not to Stay bfi@aol.com Buckminster Fuller Reader bfi@aol.com Cosmography: A Posthumous Scenario for the Future of Humanity bfi@aol.com Cosmography: A Posthumous......... http://intertain.com/store/welcome.html Critical Path bfi@aol.com Earth, Inc. bfi@aol.com Education Automation bfi@aol.com Grunch of Giants bfi@aol.com Ideas and Integrities (Dave Morrison Books; used) morrison@teleport.com Ideas and Integrities bfi@aol.com Intuition bfi@aol.com Nine Chains to the Moon bfi@aol.com No More Second Hand God bfi@aol.com Operating Manual for SpaceShip Earth bfi@aol.com Synergetics (I): Explorations in the Geometry of thinking bfi@aol.com Tetrascroll: Goldilocks & the Three Bears morrison@teleport.com Tetrascroll: Goldilocks & the Three Bears bfi@aol.com Utopia or Oblivion: The Prospects for Humanity bfi@aol.com World Game:Integrative Resource Utilization Planning Tool (DIGITAL) Table of Contents http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bucky.html BY OTHERS 50 Years of Design Science Revolution & the World Game (?, ed) bfi@aol.com A Fuller Explanation (Edmundson) bfi@aol.com Basic Bucky (PD; D) (Moore) http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bucky.html Bucky: A Guided Tour of Buckminster Fuller (Kenner) morrison@teleport.com Bucky for Beginners (Laycock) bfi@aol.com Bucky's 100s (publication pending) (Hoberman, ed) ? @ ? Bucky Works (publication pending) (Baldwin) ? @ ? Buckminster Fuller: Autobiographical Monolog/Scenario (Snyder) bfi@aol.com Buckminster Fuller: Autobiographical...... (Snyder) morrison@teleport.com Development Pattern of Geometric Structures (Thorsteinn)kingdome@mmedia.is Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller (Marks) morrison@teleport.com Dome-It-Yourself Instruction Book (Thorsteinn)kingdome@mmedia.is EDC Booklet (163 Domes & Projects '72-92) (Thorsteinn)kingdome@mmedia.is Ho-Ping: Food for Everyone (Gabel) xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu Nature's Forms (Thorsteinn)kingdome@mmedia.is Non-Being and Somethingness (Hample) morrison@teleport.com Synergetics Dictionary (Applewhite) bfi@aol.com World Game Map Teacher Resources Guide (staff)xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CALENDARS (PAPER UNLESS NOTED OTHERWISE) 1995 Buckminster Fuller Centennial Calendar bfi@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CITIES AIR LAND SEA Oceania Project http://oceania.org/ SPACE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CLOTHING, JEWELRY, ETC. EARRINGS Celestial Orb (Design Science Toys) stuq@mhv.net KEY RINGS Marble Globe (GENI) geni@cerf.net MUGS Earth from Space (Geosphere Project) http://infolane.com/infolane/geosphere/geosphere.html NECKLACES Pendant Celestial Orb (Design Science Toys) stuq@mhv.net T-SHIRTS Global Awareness Unfolding (BFI) bfi@aol.com Connect the World with GENI (GENI) geni@cerf.net Earth From Space http://infolane.com/infolane/geosphere/geosphere.html Natural Spaces Dome Logo (NS) c/o donh@hoflin.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMPUTER, ULTRA-MICRO ARTICLES HARDWARE Applied Synergetics (Rick Bono) http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/index.html Bono's Picture Gallery http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/rb_gall.html SOFTWARE Applied Synergetics (Rick Bono) http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DEBT National http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drdebt.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DEMOCRACY, ELECTRONIC *Voting By Phone Foundation (Evan Ravitz) evan@vote.org * http://www.vote.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOMES, GEODESIC ARCHITECTS, CONSULTANTS, DESIGNERS, ETC. Chu, Russell (Tensegrity Structural Systems) RCHU@aol.com Clinton International Design Consultants Joseph D. Clinton c/o donh@hoflin.com Fuller & Sadao, PC c/o EdApple@aol.com Thorsteinn, Einar, DI kingdome@mmedia.is Kingdomes Home Page http://www.mmedia.is/kingdome/ MANUFACTURERS, DEALERS, ETC. Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) FL, USA c/o donh@hoflin.com * Antennas for Communications (AFC) FL, USA rposner@ocala.com American Ingenuity, Inc. FL, USA c/o donh@hoflin.com * Econ-O-Dome Domekits@aol.com GeoDomes Woodworks CA, USA c/o donh@hoflin.com Hexadome of America, Inc. CA, USA c/o donh@hoflin.com Key Dome FL, USA c/o donh@hoflin.com Kingdomes TX, USA kingdome@mmedia.is Monolithic Constructors, Inc. TX, USA c/o donh@hoflin.com Natural Spaces, Inc. MN, USA c/o donh@hoflin.com Shelter Systems CA, USA c/o joemoore@cruzio.com Timberline Geodesics CA, USA TLineDomes@aol.com MODELS 1 2 3 4 Sphere Kit (21") by A.G.S. Products bfi@aol.com Geodesic Dome Kit (BFI) bfi@aol.com Glitter Globes (Karl Schmidt; Transtronics) kschmidt@databank.com Hoberman Sphere bfi@aol.com Hoberman Sphere stuq@mhv.net Kingdome Models (5) (Einar Thorsteinn) kingdome@mmedia.is Synergy Ball (P Salsbury Designer; Design Science Toys) bfi@aol.com Synergy Ball (P.Salsbury Designer; Design Science Toys) stuq@mhv.net TensegriToy by Tensegrity Systems bfi@aol.com TensegriToy by Tensegrity Systems stuq@mhv.net NEWSGROUPS Architecture alt.architecture.alternative PICTURES Araki, Yoshiaki (Synergetics Institute, Japan) Pine Dome Project http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~t93827ya/dome/dome.html Dickson, Stewart (Geometry & Geodesic Domes) http://mathsource.wri.com/~mathart/portfolio/SPD_Geo_port_detail.html#capsi Geary, Carol Stained Glass Dome http://sunsite.unc.edu/otis/pers/Geary_C.html * Rywalt, Chris * Miscellaneous http://www.westnet.com/~crywalt/photos/photos.html Siqueira, Rodrigo (Tensegrities pics & text) http://www.lsi.usp.br/usp/rod/bucky/buckminster_fuller.html Wright, Vedder Plastic Fork Dome http://world.std.com/~vwright/hobbies.html SOFTWARE * Dome (Rick Bono) ftp://ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/bin/dome350.zip Dome Data Generator (Andy Wardley) ftp://ftp.uwa.edu.au/pub/povray/utilities/geodome.zip Dome Generator avalon.chinalake.navy.mil/pub/utils/misc/geodesic_obj.uue Geodome software, Pics and Text http://www.lsi.usp.br/usp/rod/bucky/buckminster_fuller.html TEXTS Birth of the Geodesic Dome--How Bucky Did It (Lloyd Seiden) http://www.lsi.usp.br/usp/rod/bucky/buckminster_fuller.html DOME magazine (Paper, Don. Hoflin, ed, Quarterly,CO) donh@hoflin.com Domes in Australia ( ? ) http://www.iinet.com.au/~mktrecom/corringe/wilja.html Earthquake in Japan (Yoshiaki Araki) http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~t93827ya/dome/disaster.html Miscellaneous DOME Magazine Articles (Einar Thorsteinn) cindyk@hoflin.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDUCATION CLASSES, COURCES, LECTURES Dome (Natural Spaces, Inc.) c/o donh@hoflin.com Kingdome Correspondence Course kingdome@mmedia.is CURRICULA Project Synergy (Gerry Segal) GERRY@BNK2.BNKST.EDU EVENTS 1995 Bucky Fuller Centennial Celebration ("Fall", Philadelphia, PA, USA) WGI xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu Bucky Centennial Event (Nov ??, New York, NY, USA) Cathedral of St.John the Divine ? @ ? 1996 ILLITERACY WGI http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drlit.html WORKSHOPS Diversity http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/Workshops.html Energy Environmental http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/Workshops.html K-12 School http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/Workshops.html World Issues http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/Workshops.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ENERGY, RENEWABLE GENERAL DISTRIBUTION (GLOBAL ENERGY GRID) ANIMATIONS Global Electrical Grid (10 min; IBM-PC Compatible; Russell D. Hoffman) GENI geni@cerf.net Compuserve (Keyword: ANISOFT) ( VGA) GENI_VGA.ZIP (Keyword: ANISOFT) (SVGA) GENI.ZIP America On-Line (Keyword: ANIMATED SOFTWARE) ( VGA) GENI_VGA.ZIP (Keyword: ANIMATED SOFTWARE) (SVGA) GENI.ZIP ESSAYS/ARTICLES The Global Energy Grid (Robert Anton Wilson) http://www.nets.com/site/raw/grids.html The Global Energy Grid (World Game Institute) http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drnrg.html#NRG2 The GENI Model: The Interconnection of Global Power Resources to Obtain an Optimal Global Sustainable Energy Solution (Dekker, Meisen & Bruton) http://www.cerf.net/geni/Text/Simulation_Article.html EFFICIENCY ARTICLES Energy Efficiency WGI http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drnrg.html NEWSGROUPS General sci.energy Renewable alt.energy.renewable PRODUCTION STORAGE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FILE TRANSFER PROTOCOL (FTP) DOWNLOAD & UPLOAD SITES Critical Path Project (UL) cpp.critpath.org/incoming/ Kaplowitz, Dave (DL) switchboard.ftp.com/bucky/ Kaplowitz, Dave (UL) switchboard.ftp.com/incoming/ New Civilization Network (DL) ftp.newciv.org/pub/Bucky/ New Civilization Network (DL) ftp.newciv.org/pub/Synergetic_Geometry/ New Civilization Network (UL) ftp.newciv.org/incoming/ Synergetics-on-the-Web (DL) ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/bin/ Synergetics-on-the-Web (DL) ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/docs/ Synergetics-on-the-Web (DL) ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/images/ Synergetics-on-the-Web (DL) ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/movies/ Synergetics-on-the-Web (UL) ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/in.coming/ *Wardley, Andy (DL) ftp.uwa.edu.au/pub/povray/HALL_OF_FAME/geodome.gif *Wardley, Andy (DL) ftp.uwa.edu.au/pub/povray/HALL_OF_FAME/geodome.jpg *Wardley, Andy (DL) ftp.uwa.edu.au/pub/povray/HALL_OF_FAME/geosmall.gif ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FULLERENES ANIMATIONS Carbon-60 http://chem-www.mps.ohio-state.edu/~lars/moviegif/ex6.mpg MODELS Bucky Ball Carbon-60 Molecule (Mondo-Tronics) bfi@aol.com Bucky Ball Carbon-60 Molecule (Mondo-Tronics) mondo@mondo.com One-Piece Carbon-60 Sphere (A.G.S. Products) bfi@aol.com PICTURES Fullerene Structure Library http://sbchm1.sunysb.edu/msl/fullerene.html Mitshuho Yoshida's Fullerene Gallery http://cochem2.tutkie.tut.ac.jp:8000/member/yoshida/fuller/Fuller.html#fuller SUNY Stony Brook University http://buckminster.physics.sunysb.edu/ Sussex University http://www.susx.ac.uk/Users/kroto/fullgallery.html TEXTS Buckyball: An Excruciatingly Researched Report (Rodrigo Siqueira) http://www.lsi.usp.br/usp/rod/bucky/buckminster_fuller.html UPDATE SERVICES (AUTOMATED E-MAIL) Articles (Body: "help") bucky@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu News http://www.physik.uni-oldenburg.de/bucky/htmls/bucky.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEOMETRY, SYNERGETICS DATABASES, POLYHEDRA Index Page http://www.netlib.org/polyhedra/index.html GENERAL Synergetics-on-the-Web (Kirby Urner) Home Page http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html Art Gallery Index http://www teleport.com/~pdx4d/ftp/artindex.html MODELS Celestial Orb by stuq@mhv.net Cubocta-Flex (Stuart Quimby) by stuq@mhv.net Dodeca by stuq@mhv.net Dodeca-Flex by stuq@mhv.net FeeBee/WeeBee by stuq@mhv.net Flex-Star-3 by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net Flex-Star-4 by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net Flex-Star-6 by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net Icosa-Flex by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net OctaBug by Design Science Toys bfi@aol.com OctaBug by Design Science Toys stuq@mhv.net PolyGonzo by stuq@mhv.net Quad-Rhom by stuq@mhv.net Quix-I by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net Quix-II by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net Rhoma by stuq@mhv.net RhomBlocks by stuq@mhv.net Roger's Connection by Design Science Toys bfi@aol.com Roger's Connection by Design Science Toys stuq@mhv.net Stik-Trix by stuq@mhv.net Tetra-Star-8 by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net Turn-About by stuq@mhv.net Vector Flexor (VE) by Da Mert Company bfi@aol.com VectorSphere-I by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net VectorSphere-II by Orb Factory stuq@mhv.net VexaHedron by stuq@mhv.net MOVIES (ANIMATIONS) Hawkins, Richard Synergetics Movies http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/ PICTURES De Jong, Gerald Gallery http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/gdj_gall.html Fearnley, Chris Gallery http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/cf_gall.html Getty, Tom Polyhedra http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tgettys/poly.html Hart, George Pavilion of Polyhedreality http://www.li.net/~george/pavilion.html Hawkins, Richard Synergetics Pics http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/ Plank, Jim _ http://www.cs.utk.edu/~plank/plank/pics/origami/keleido-pics/pics.html Origami http://www.cs.utk.edu/~plank/plank/pics/origami/origami.html Urner, Kirby Polyhedra http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ku_gall.html SOFTWARE Geometry Center (Univ. of Minnesota) software@geom.umn.edu Geometry Forum http://forum.swarthmore.edu/ Geomview 1.1 (3mb) ftp://geom.umn.edu/pubgeomview/geomview-bin.tar.Z Miscellaneous http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/sw_gall.html PolyWog 3-D Modeling program by Elizabeth Kommit chao@CRL.COM TEXTS Essay on Synergetics (Gerald De Jong) * http://www.xs4all.nl/~gdj/synerget.html Comments About the Book 'Synergetics' http://www.lsi.usp.br/usp/rod/bucky/buckminster_fuller.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- GLOSSARY Bucky Glossary http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bucky.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- INTERNET RELAY CHAT (IRC) Discussion of Fuller's Ideas (Sundays) /join #geodesic ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- LISTS, SUBSCRIPTION (l = lowercase "L", not 1) Geodesic (RBF's Works Discussion) listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu Mission-Earth (Whole Earth Simulation) listserv@listserv.ncsu.edu Synergetics-l (Synergetics Discussion) majordomo@teleport.com Wholeinfo-l (Summary of Wholesys-l) listserv@netcom.com Wholesys-l (Abundance Economics ) listserv@netcom.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MAGAZINES (PAPER AND ELECTRONIC) DOME magazine (Paper, Don. Hoflin, ed, Quarterly,CO) donh@hoflin.com Synergetica (Paper, Russell Chu, ed; Back Issues Only) bfi@aol.com Synergetics Journal (Paper, ? , ed, Santa Barbara) bfi@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MAPS, GLOBES, ETC. *ARTICLES (PAPER) A New World Map for a New World Order WGI xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu CARDS (PAPER) GREETING BFI (4" x 8") bfi@aol.com POSTCARDS SpaceShip Earth World Map (Color; 5.5" x 3.5") BFI bfi@aol.com CHARTS Star http://galaxy.einet.net/mall/Jill-Swift/geodome.html GLOBES FOLD-UP (PAPERBOARD) Dymaxion Sky-Ocean (5.5"diam; Color w/Population; S.S.Earth ed.) BFI bfi@aol.com Fuller Projection (5.5"diam; Color) WGI xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu Dymaxion Globe (6.0"diam; 4-Color) GENI geni@cerf.net INFLATABLE EarthBall (??" x ??"; Satellite Images; Eric J. Morris) Spherical Visions eric@pacificrim.net POP-UP (PAPERBOARD) Earth from Space (5"diam; Color) GeoSphere http://infolane.com/infolane/geosphere/geosphere.html MAPS CLASSROOM (PAPER) (12' x 26' Vinyl) xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu GYMNASIUM OUTLINE (PAPER) ( 3' x 6' Laminate) xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu PLAYGROUND (31' x 65' Stencil) xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu WALL (PAPER) (34" x 22" Color Raleigh Edition) BFI bfi@aol.com (35" x 22" Grip-Kitrick Edition) WGI xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu (38" x 23" Color Donnelley Edition) BFI bfi@aol.com POSTERS (PAPER) Dymaxion Map with Global Energy Grid (34" x 22"; 4-Color) GENI geni@cerf.net Geosphere (Six Global Views: 24" x 36") GeoSphere Project http://infolane.com/infolane/geosphere/geospher.html PROJECTS GeoSphere Project (Tom van Sant) http://infolane.com/infolane/geosphere/geospher.html PUZZLES Dymaxion World Map (Wood; Color; ??" x ??") Pacific Puzzles bfi@aol.com SOFTWARE MAPS Global Recall (Countries, World; MAC) WGI xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ANIMATIONS (MOVIES) Spherical Anims of Earth's Cloudforms (Pending; Eric J. Morris; PC?) Spherical Visions eric@pacificrim.net * Unfolding Globe (Chris Rywalt) * http://www.westnet.com/~crywalt/unfold.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEDIA, MAGNETIC COMPACT DISKS (CD'S) Introduction to Bucky Fuller (Pending) Blaine D'Amico damico@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu World Game (Pending) xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu DISKS FLOPPIES Global Recall xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu Hard, Removable Cartriges TAPES AUDIOTAPES Around the Universe in 90 Minutes ( 1.5 hrs) bfi@aol.com Buckminster Fuller: The 50 Year Experiment ( 1.5 hrs) bfi@aol.com Everything I Know (40.0 hrs) bfi@aol.com COMPUTER VIDEOTAPES A Win-Win Solution (15 min) geni@cerf.net Dome-It-Yourself (45 min)kingdome@mmedia.is Dymaxion Lab:Experiment in Individual Initiative(?? min) bfi@aol.com Dymaxion Lab: What Individual Can Do (60 min) bfi@aol.com Ecological Design: Inventing the Future (?? min) bfi@aol.com Modeling the Universe (15 min) bfi@aol.com Selected Ideas of Buckminster Fuller (PD) (55 min) geni@cerf.net What If...A New Global Option (15 min) geni@cerf.net World of Buckminster Fuller (90 min) bfi@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEDICAL AIDS Aids (Icosa Virus Pics) http://www.bocklabs.wisc.edu/virusviz.html HEALTH Health Care http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drhealth.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MUSIC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEWSGROUPS ENERGY Energy sci.energy Energy, Renewable alt.energy.renewable FOOD Agriculture sci.agriculture GENERAL Fuller (Geodesic List Gateway) bit.listserv.geodesic HOUSING Housing alt.architecture.alternative POPULATION SYSTEMS Global alt.earth.system.science TRANSPORTATION ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEWSLETTERS Trimtab (BFI, Paper) bfi@aol.com GENI (GENI, Paper) geni@cerf.net Global Peace Gaming (GLOSAS, Electronic; back issues) GLOSAS@vm1.mcgill.ca World Game Report (WGI, Paper) xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORGANIZATIONS Buckminster Fuller Institute (BFI) General bfi@aol.com Newsletter: Trimtab (Paper) bfi@aol.com WWW http:// Critical Path Project (FIX BBS) (CPP) General kiyoshi@critpath.org WWW http://www.critpath.org/ Global Energy Network International (GENI; Peter Meisen, Dir) E-MAIL Internet geni@cerf.net AOL geniproj@aol.com Compuserve 75543.520@compuserve.com WWW Home Page http://www.geni.org/ Newsletter: "GENI" (Paper) geni@cerf.net Bucky Centennial http://www.cerf.net/geni/Text/COVER.html Global Systems Analysis & Simulation Assn (GLOSAS) General GLOSAS@vmi.mcgill.ca WWW http:// Mission Earth (ME) Gottfried Mayer-Kress gmk@pegasos.ccsr.uiuc.edu Home Page (Santa Fe) http://www.santafe.edu/~gmk/MissionEarth/ UIUC http://www.ccsr.uiuc.edu/People/gmk/Projects/MissionEarth/ New Civilizaion Network (NCN) Steingrubner, Joachim jhs@newciv.org Bucky Stuff http://www.primenet.com/~jhs/geostuff.html Funch, Flemming Bucky Text http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/bucky.html Bucky Pics http://www.newciv.org/Bucky/BuckyPics.html Synergetic Geometry http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/ Synergetics Institute Araki, Yoshiaki http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~t93827ya/index.html About Fuller http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~t93827ya/dome/fuller.html World Game Institute (WGI) Headquarters (Drexel Univ.) xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu Chuck Dingee, West Coast of North America Representative http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/WGI.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- PATENTS, SEARCHES Internet Patent News Service http://sunsite.unc.edu/patents/intropat.html Town Hall http://town.hall.org/cgi-bin/srch-patent *U.S.Patent & Trademark Office http://www.uspto.gov ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- PICTURES, COLLECTIONS, MISCELLANEOUS, ETC. HOLOGRAMS 3-D World Wide Holograms (Mark Diamond) hologram@shadow.net PUBLIC DOMAIN MOORE, JOE 0.8meg ftp://switchboard.ftp.com/bucky/Buckypics.lha 2.0meg ftp://switchboard.ftp.com/bucky/joe.moore.buckypics.jpg.tgz 1.0meg ftp://ftp.newciv.org/pub/Bucky/jmoore1.zip 1.0meg ftp://ftp.newciv.org/pub/Bucky/jmoore2.zip 1.3meg ftp://ftp.newciv.org/pub/Bucky/jmoore3.zip ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- POETRY ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- POPULATION, TRENDS, ETC. General http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drpop.html U.N. Population Div gopher://gopher.undp.org/11/ungophers/popin/wdtrends ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTES, BUCKY *How Little I Know http://www.westnet.com/~crywalt/how_little/hlik_000.html No More Second Hand God (Ch 3, pp 41-4) http://www.emf.net/~mal/grok.html Synergetics ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SEARCH ENGINES (KEYWORDS: "GEODESIC", "BUCKMINSTER", ETC) Archie (FTP Archive File Name Searches) (Telnet; Login: archie) archie.rutgers.edu Gopher Title Searches (Telnet Login: gopher) consultant.micro.umn.edu * Aliweb at Indiana Univ http://www.cs.indiana.edu/aliweb/form.html * InfoSeek (search newsgroups, web pgs; not free) http://infoseek.com/Home * Lycos Keyword Index http://www.lycos.com * McKinley http://www.mckinley.com * Web Crawler Keyword Index http://www.webcrawler.com Wide Area Info Service (WAIS) FullText (Telnet Login:wais) quake.think.com * Yahoo Index of WEB sites http://www.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SIMULATIONS, GLOBAL ARTICLES (PAPER) Games-Interactive Learning Environments (author ?) EMD org xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu Planning Diseases ( ? ) Futurist mag xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu What Does Peace Mean? ( ? ) WGI xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu World Game at Twenty (author ?) Futurist mag xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu SOFTWARE Geosphere Project (Tom van Sant) http://infolane.com/infolane/geosphere/geosphere.html Global Recall Solutions Lab (Floppies) * WGI http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/WGI.html Global Recall Solutions Lab (CD) (Pending) WGI xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu Mission Earth gmk@pegasos.ccsr.uiuc.edu Morris, Eric J. eric@pacificrim.net Multiple User Dimensions (MUDS) ? World Game Network (pending) xtm00002@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- STATISTICS, GLOBAL United Nations http://www.undcp.or.at/unlinks.html CIA World Fact Book '94 http://www.ic.gov/94fact/fb94toc/fb94toc.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TENSEGRITIES *Domes *Towers * Needle Tower (Kenneth Snelson) * http://www.westnet.com/~crywalt/photos/photos.html *Trusses ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRANSPORTATION AIR AirCar Dymaxion Car (Chris Rywalt) * http://www.westnet.com/~crywalt/Bucky_Pics/Bucky_pics.html Transports LAND Mass Transit SEA Submarines ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- UPDATE SERVICES (AUTOMATED E-MAIL) BuckminsterFullerene Updates (Body: "help") bucky@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu NetNews Filtering Server (Body: "help") netnews@db.stanford.edu Fullerene News http://www.physik.uni-oldenburg.de/bucky/htmls/bucky.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WATER Acid Rain http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drsust.html#SUS4 Drinking http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drh20.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:25:45 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Linkage chronofile In Message Sat, 28 Oct 1995 07:29:55 -0800, Gil Friend writes: >At 3:33 AM 10/28/95, tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: >>Variables (catagories) that connect different areas of learning >>to each other and to humans. >> >>"Design advantage" >> >>"Rates of use" (ex energy, material per person) >> >>"Design and invention introduction" (time of apperance) >> >>"Location and routs of movments"(material energy,. ect) >> >>"Saving" >>"Cost" >>"Sales" >>"Assets" >>"Labour" >> >>the above catagories is used in economics, design, transport >>geography, history of science, history of technology >>politics, business, buracracy and adminstration and others. > >This is a very interesting list. >But what does it refer to? it refer to comprehensive learning, you can classify diffrent area of your study according to this catagories. i will try to give examples later. system theory is too mixed up to really understand what they are talking about, and it does not lead neither to correspondence between desciplines nor to clearity. it is a sort of newtonian paradigma. here is the second list Universe *Synergetics* synergey is outside the normal departments *General principles*" *Theory* *Expirment* *Instrument* *Explanation* *Genetic code* *Energy* *Change* *Structure* " you can fit under this system and geometry" *Movment* *Rate of change* *Tempreture* *Power* *Form* *Content* *Visibility* examples: some of us have been discussing geometrical forms this can be clssified under structure. the term is used by all sciences while geometry is used only by few. some discussion about the internet or new program can be classified under*new design*. each term may attract other terms related to it, but this terms are quite commen to all the desciplines. in a way the first list brings together more the human sciences. the second bring together more the physical sciences. Fuller list of content in synergetics mixes major themes with minor others there is no order, a sort of open system. this list is a sort of closed geodesic format. i am planning to write my new notes in this way. i hope you get the idea. as an excersise i am going to look at all these terms in the dictionary and list them as the catagories of*comprehensive education*. this catagories might help quick comprhension, they are under the test.please feedback. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:43:53 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: flux@THING.NET Subject: Re: BAD BACKS Joe Moore wrote: "It seems that bad backs is an occupational hazard for those who sit in front of computers." I Yeah, and *not* only back backs, but a whole lot of other problems we haven't really recognized yet, because we are beta-testing with our bodies the new lifestyle of the sitting, thinking, and typing species. II Chairs are constructed to fit into our (non-dome) square computing places and I noticed that this 90 degrees angle we take as comfort is quite the opposite. Anyone tried the "Back Chair", you know: the one where you almost kneel on? III Antiglare-Filter + beta cerotin (you know: carrots) are a must for the eyes. We have a tendency to *stare* at the screen instead of just looking at it, avoid a perfect 90 degrees here as well. IV For the mouse, watch out there and get a Wrist pad at least, this is dangerous stuff, I friend of mine had give up computing because of mousing, so her daughter refuses to work the mouse much and sticks with Unix and Dos. V Since a have a music/label/studio I always thought of computing as a form of meditation to empty your mind, to be omnidirectional, "geodesic" and focused, but quite often I'm just stressed out. (biz,gear,NYC...) (that why I wanna build a dome...) VI I still can't believe the industry is just putting all that badly designed crap in front of us, (o.k. they are doing their best and some of it is quite good.....) forgot about compassion here for a sec. Frank f L U X Box 2141 New York NY 10163 fLUX@thing.net +(718)599-9377 ___________ \o / )( / \ \ \ fLUX vol. one: PLANET GENIUS. http://hyperreal.com/music/reviews/davis/flux.planet/flux1.html fLUX vol. two: MYSTERY OF THE LEAPING FISH. Compact Disc & Website coming soon. f L U X Box 2141 New York NY 10163 fLUX@thing.net +(718)599-9377 ___________ \o / )( / \ \ \ fLUX vol. one: PLANET GENIUS. http://hyperreal.com/music/reviews/davis/flux.planet/flux1.html fLUX vol. two: MYSTERY OF THE LEAPING FISH. Compact Disc & Website coming soon. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 20:18:54 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: geodesic buckminster (fwd) SIFT Netnews writes: > From hotpage.stanford.edu!netnews Sun Oct 29 18:32:24 1995 > Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 18:33:08 -0800 > Message-Id: <9510300233.AA08596@hotpage.Stanford.EDU> > Subject: geodesic buckminster > From: SIFT Netnews > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at inside.cru zio.com > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Subscription 1: geodesic buckminster > > Article: alt.fishing.20271 > Message-ID: <46v8k9$rp2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> > From: rwhaskell@aol.com (RWHaskell) > Subject: Re: growing (?) fish to eat > Score: 100 > First 20 lines: > Ten years ago I visited a place in Aspen, Colorado, USA called Windstar. > It's John Denver's ranch in the Rocky Mountains. They were/are into all > sorts of experimental, environmentally friendly activities including > aquaculture, windmills, and geodesic (a la Buckminster Fuller) dome > intensive gardening. It was a great place to visit! > I don't know how to get ahold of them but they must have an I-Net > connection. Anybody from Aspen on line in this group? Anybody from > Colorado? Help Tania out by digging up a contact for her. > Ron > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > For help information, send email HotPage Server > with word 'help' in message body netnews@hotpage.stanford.edu > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > .- > -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 04:29:50 -0500 Reply-To: WLauritzen Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Teacher Training Program TO ALL I've worked for the LA school district for twelve years as a substitute (I prefer it). I've taught about 5,000 students various synegetic principles. Of these I've taught about 2,000 hands on model dome building. I'm going to aproach the administration in about two weeks regarding setting up a teacher training program for teaching how to build simple models. If anyone has any suggestions or advice, please send it to me. Bill Lauritzen Bill Lauritzen 809-D East Garfield Glendale, CA 91205 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 04:32:42 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: BAD BACKS/ergonomics Frank, I've seen those new keyboards put out by microsoft I think. Anyone tried them? I think ideally a keyboard hould be something one can grab hold of like one would grab the branch of a tree--given our simian-like heritage. Until voice recognition. Bill Lauritzen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:32:25 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: question regarding triangles >Not being a mathematician, especially not a trignometric specialist, >I wonder if someone out there can help with this question: is it >possible to have a geodesic dome (living structure of course) of >either 3/8, 4/8, or 5/8 type, where all the triangles on it are >equilateral? Yes, but it is more Yurt-like than dome-like. It is clearly not a geodesic dome. To build a model, take the simplest possible case: 1) Take 10 equal-length sticks, join them in a circle. This is your "base". It will stay on the table-top. 2) Each of the ten sticks will be the bottom of a triangle. All sticks should be equal length (but you knew that). Construct the triangles. 3) Connect the peaks of each of the triangles with more sticks (thus making more triangles) 4) The first layer is now done. Each horizontal stick should become the base of another layer of triangles. 5) Connect the peaks (same approach as in [3]) 6) The top of the structure is a group of four triangles, sorta like a pyramid. 7) The formal name for what you have built is "one-half of a rombo-icosa-duodekahedron" (I think... I am sure that the math-heads will jump in and correct me if I am wrong.) >If so, what are the pros and cons of this vs. the >traditional varied trianges one sees with most dome kit manufacturers? The pros are obvious - all the components are interchangeable, all the angles are the same, all the lengths are equal, etc. etc. The cons are that while this is a fine structure for, lets say a greenhouse, it has none of the tensile advantanges of a geodesic structure. For most applications, this makes very little difference, given that most tensile structures are over-built to the point where their mass defeats the tensile effects. In summary, a purist would laugh him/herself silly over this one, even though it has the advange of being much easier to design and build than a true geodesic dome. Given the standardized panels, one could crank these things out in cookie-cutter fashion and create a whole new approach to building that might do many of the things that Bucky promised his building systems would do. I spent a lot of time messing with this concept, thinking that I was "improving upon Bucky", in that I was able to engineer a much more standardized approach, less complexity and such. After spending about $12K of my own money on stress-skin panels and messing about, I let the project stall and die of neglect. Domes are "stange enough", and there seems to be no market at all for something "even stranger" that sells "against" a dome, regardless of "advantages". If anyone in the dome biz is interested, my notebooks and such are available at a very reasonable price... Bottom Line - people decide to build or buy a dome for reasons that having NOTHING to do with engineering. It is an emotional choice, much like their choice in music. If they rationalize their choice with the "engineering selling points" of a dome, rest assured that these points are theory, and have little to do with their own dome-home. (My favorite example is the dome home that was heated with electric baseboard units - the owner shall remain nameless to protect the guilty!!) If people used nothing more than engineering-based decisions to dictate their choice of structure, all single-family homes would be earth-bermed or earth-covered. Hillsides would sprout windows, and every house would have a garden on its roof. Enough. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:37:31 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Bucky's Random Number Generator (was BUCKY'S COMPUTER) Joe Moore said: >The October 1995 issue of _Scientific American_ has an article entitled >"Quantum-Mechanical Computers" by Seth Lloyd on pages 140-45. It describes >the latest research in Quantum-Mechanical computers and has 5 references to >other relevant articles. Research has accelerated in the last year or two. >We seem to be getting closer to Bucky's Ultimate Computer which stores info >on individual electrons. Yeah, but the practical impact of Quantum "Computers" seems to be in the exploitation of the fact that they are NOT the sort of predictable, dependable gizmo that most of us would want for data storage. As a random number generator, the current developments would be superb. I am not putting down the theory here - random number generators would be very very very helpful in (for example) encryption/decryption applications. There are lots and lots of places where this would be a big improvement over present methods. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 14:04:42 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dave suwala Subject: Re[2]: BAD BACKS Re Joe Moore's comment: >IV >For the mouse, watch out there and get a Wrist pad at least, this >is dangerous stuff, I friend of mine had give up computing because >of mousing, so her daughter refuses to work the mouse much and >sticks with Unix and Dos. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I had a bad case of bursitis in my shoulder when I was developing Access databases last year. The solution was to leave the mouse behind and get myself a large trackball (mine is a Kensington Expert Mouse (misnomer) but there are a number of similar products with large balls). One further customization: I went to a local gem and mineral show and scouted around for a sphere made of rock. One of the dealers lent me his calipers and I found that he had one exactly 2.25 inches in diameter. Just what I needed. It is what they refer to as a "Thunder Egg". It has the appearance of some distant planet with earth-tone continents and ocean currents and clouds. Maybe the most expensive track ball you'll ever see. A semi-precious stone at $60. Nice and heavy for positive action and easy on the wrist. I rest my wrist on the pad just next to my keyboard and I don't get bursitis. Dave Suwala@Reichhold.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 16:49:40 +0000 Reply-To: richard@henderr.demon.co.uk Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Richard Henderson Organization: Fire Escape in the Sky Subject: Re: BAD BACKS/ergonomics Bill wrote: > Frank, > > I've seen those new keyboards put out by microsoft I think. > > Anyone tried them? I bought a Microsoft Natural Keyboard about 2 months ago to try and alleviate those nasty shooting pains in my wrists caused (I presume) by about 10 years' worth of serious keyboard action. Worked like a charm! The pain went away within days, and hasn't returned. I was a bit worried that the altered keyboard layout would prove too difficult to adjust to, but I managed to get the hang of it after only a couple of sessions. I'd recommend one to anybody who does a lot of keying, or indeed anyone who wants their keyboard to resemble a prop from Star Trek. Hasn't helped my bad back, though. Richard *----------http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/index.html----------* "I brought some Coltrane records with me to Vietnam and I listened to them constantly. His music was like life to me, and death was just down the road" - Frank Lowe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:49:36 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Design Advantage this is some notes from a book published in 1986 Design Advntage Gallium use : settlet dishes antenas, radar detector .01% of earth crust 3-6 times faster in moving electrons around than Silicon emits light absorbs light more efficiently (better solar cell) operate at much higher T ( reducing the cooling requirments in computer) process light and electronic data in a single chip By end of the century G arsenide could account for 1/3 of semiconductor industry's business - which expected to spiral by then from last year 15 billion $ to 150 billion$ annually. the military is the highest consumer first produced near L.A other application computer, communication are expected to grow rapidly possible uses smarter and faster robots better medical instruments navigation system gallium wafer for making chips cost 200$ silicon 10$ the state of development lags behind Silicon at least a decade mkes solid state laser and light emiting diodes (size of grain of salt) used in digital audio diskplayers and laser disk data reconding billionth of a second rate of voice transmission may make light computing a reality symetrical crystalline lattice ( reason why electron move rapidly through it) i use design as new term conected to other terms as expierment to see if it possible to link desprate departments. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 17:50:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Triangles as basic shapes and a book Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com I spent a week on vacation at the beach, reef diving, and sailing. I noticed that the overwhelming majority of shell fragments on the beach tend towards triangular shapes. This seemed unusual, given that shells start out as very non-triangular. The wear-and-tear process seems to result in a "minimal shape" that is roughly triangular. This seems to somehow support Bucky's claim that triangles are a natural minima of sorts. By pure luck, I also came across a copy of "Cosmic Fishing" by E. J. Applewhite. It is a first-person account of the experience he had writing Synergetics with Bucky. I have not finished the book yet, but it explains much for those who are interested in the background behind what is presented as a "whole systems approach" in Synergetics. The chronological evidence seems to indicate that the broad scope of the book was a result of much cutting and pasting, then painstaking elimination of contradiction when and where it was discovered. Publisher was Macmillan, in 1977 ISBN was 0-02-502710-7 The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 17:30:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Laughton Organization: Mendocino County Office of Ed. Subject: Hello! Hello, all! I just up & joined this list as soon as I learned of its existence. Is there a FAQ available? Were any of you at Carbondale (Illinois) when Fuller was there in residence? e-mail and say "Hello!" Bob Laughton, Class of '68 Design Department Southern Illinois University Reply to this post or: bob@pacific.net -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:53:59 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Philadelphia's Complete Internet Provider Subject: [Philadelphia] 3D Modeling Study Group Meeting We will be meeting Thursday, November 2, from 5:30pm-7:30pm at Cyber Loft (http://www.cyberloft.com), 1525 Walnut ST, Second Floor, Philadelphia (215-564-4380). [Note: Sorry I posted the wrong address last week.] The meeting will feature a show-and-tell and discussion. The Study Gruop will discuss a variety of topics, depending on the interests of the participants. Perhaps including some of the following subjects: * building and discussing 3d models * symmetry in spatial shapes * virtual computer models of geometric shapes * photo-realistic rendering of pictures of 3D computer models * bibliographic references to related published work * mathematical methods for describing geometric structures The Study Group is cost-free, except for the expense of modeling materials. -- Christopher J. Fearnley | UNIX SIG Leader at PACS cjf@netaxs.com (finger me!) | (Philadelphia Area Computer Society) cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us | Design Science Revolutionary http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf | Explorer in Universe "Dare to be Naive" -- Bucky Fuller | Linux Advocate ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 19:11:21 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Digital Arts Subject: Re: need dome manufacturers list In-Reply-To: <9510191354.AA02163@s1.csuhayward.edu> Subj: DOME MANUFS Date: Tue, Aug 29, 1995 3:05 PM EDT From: joemoore@cruzio.com X-From: joemoore@cruzio.com (Joe Moore) To: Dadua@aol.com GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore May 26, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Summer 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: - American Ingenuity Verified: May 1995 8777 Holiday Springs Road ? Rockledge, FL 32955-5805 Tel: 407-639-8777 Fax: 407-639-8778 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Cascade Domes Verified: ? P.O. Box 1977 ? Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Domes America Verified: ? 6345 West Jolie Road ? Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: DomEstic Designs Verified: ? P.O. Box 4203 ? Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 893 Wilson Avenue Joe & Kevin Frawley St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos McCarter Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Wood kits Geodesic Domes & Homes Verified: ? 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Summer 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Bob Davies & Glenn Van Doren Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Hexadome Verified: Summer 1992 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Summer 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: - Key Dome Verified: 4-95 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Winter 92-3 P.O. Box 980427 Einar Thorstein Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: $19.95 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Summer 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Space Domes Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, Dennis & Janet Johnson North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ? 999 Harrison Court Hal Klopp & Bruce Hamilton Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Summer 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Linda Boothe Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pond-Brook Products Verified: ? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $34.95 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Semispheres Verified: ? 1505 Webster Street ? Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: ugly looking! Shelter Systems Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ? P.O. Box 400 ? Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $39.95 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Temcor Verified: ? 2825 Toledo Street Don Richter Torrance, CA 90503 Tel: Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Timberline Geodesics Verified: June 2, 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Topsider Homes Verified: ? P.O. Box 848 ? Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: 1994 One Penn Plaza New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Summer 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: - National Dome Council Verified: ? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 - DOME (magazine) Verified: Summer 1994 4401 Zepher Stret Donald R. Hoflin Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 08:08:33 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: syn-l: tensegrity Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: <199510301905.AA15894@xs1.xs4all.nl>; from "Gerald A. de Jong" at Oct 30, 95 8:05 pm Since no atom in the universe ever actually touches another, everything in the universe is a tensegrity cohered by tension and compression forces. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 08:31:57 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Hello! In-Reply-To: <178849.ensmtp@mcoe.k12.ca.us>; from "Bob Laughton" at Oct 30, 95 5:30 pm Bob Laughton writes: > > Hello, all! > > I just up & joined this list as soon as I learned of its existence. Is there a > FAQ available? > > Were any of you at Carbondale (Illinois) when Fuller was there in residence? > e-mail and say "Hello!" > > Bob Laughton, Class of '68 > Design Department > Southern Illinois University > > Reply to this post or: > bob@pacific.net > > > > > -- > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - > Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! > ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - > .- > BUCKY FAQ: http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf/fuller-faq.html BUCKY FULLER VIRTUAL INSTITUTE: http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bucky.html WORLD GAME: http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/drhome.html SYNERGETICS: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:17:21 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Assets (Capital of Planet Earth) from an old note book "ASSETS" another term in general education approach. ===========------------> THE WORLD TOTAL CRUDE OIL PRODUCTION IS AROUND 56 million barrel a day Though 3/4 of the world export come from developing countries it has declined since 1950. Imports concentrated in developed c which recieve 75% of world imports in mid 1970 - declined to 65% in 1983. In 1970 W.Europe imprted 1/2 of world crude - by early eighties 1/3 In 1985 the volume of international trade in petroleum products was only little over 30% of that in crude oil. the Gulf major exporter followed by Carribean states and USSR. the total oil reserve is aroun 700 billion barrel 1985. the world uses about 20 billion barrel. you can see how much is left by substracting. under the term assets one can include waste of energy electricity and autombiles. efficiency improvment in motor, solar , and other devices. there are a lot of items which can fit under this term, ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:35:53 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: POWER " POWER " =============--------------> The energy output of gallon of gassoline can run your car for 1/2 an hour with power output of 38 kwatt. It would run a jet airplane 45,000 Kwatt for second and half. The power output of prime movers has increased 100 million times in the last 10,000 years Typical power output Kwatt Man .1 Ox .2 Horse .5 Windmil 15 Water wheel 3000 Steam engine 2000 Internal combision 10,000 Gas turbin 80,000 Water turbin 100,000 Steam turbin 1,000,000 Liquid fuel rocket 10,000,000 Equating man with the machine comes from 18 century philosphy. the term +Power+ can cross " relate" to Design. 4 telephones have 6 relations ( 6 connection ) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 20:39:17 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: M O V M E N T MOV-MENT M O V M E N T =======================-------------> Total world cargo 1937 490 million metric ton 1957 960 1967 1750 1975 2800 1980 3500 The patent for first steam boat(1801) by Symington. The first successful steam voyage was made in 1807 from N.Y to Albany on the Hudson - Fulton 1838 two ships sailing from cork and Bristol almost at the same time crossed the atlentic -- the first comercial successful voyage. 1832 iron vessel Elburka from Liverpool to Niger. Not until mid- 19 century steamers began to displace siling vessels and in 1860 iron came to be more substituted for wood. Steel first used in Cunard Vine Sevice in 1881. Early 20 century motor ship were introduced 1911 oil tanker Volcanous was first to use diesel oil engine running on heavy crude oil. around then steamer still constituted 1/2 of world shipping tonnage. Steel carry 2-4 times its weight. 12 century the average ship can carry 250 tons cargo + considerable above deck cargo. 1930 -1940 larges ships were passaenger. 1939 two ships of over 80,000 ton were regular crossing the Atlantic third nearing completion - Normandi lunched 1935 Queen Marry in 1938 and Elizbith firs service in WW2. the short era of the gaint passenger vine was ended by the growth of air travel in 1950's 60's. number of vessels 1970 393 over 50,000 ton 316 of these were oil tankers 75 bulk 98 of the oil tankers were over 100,000 weight and number of ships (total) 1900 1939 1970 steam motor number 27,.610 52,444 total weight 28.9 m ton 227.5 million ton Sailing number 11,712 1423 total weight 6.5 .9 million ton average tonnage of steam and motor risen from 1400 tons in 1900 to 4000 in 1970. total ship weight by country 1970 Liberia 33.3 million ton Japan 27.0 UK 25.8 Norway 19.3 USA 18.5 USSR 14.8 Greece 10.9 The oil tanker account for 37% of total, Ore and bulk for 20%. In 1967 out of 118 vessels of 50,000 ton or more 105 were tankers in 1970 out of 383 = = = = 316 were tankers. this needs checking from time to time when you are relaxed. movment of tonnage and transport in general have very close relation to design, human behaviour remmber those Atlantic voyages in films, compare this to airports passanger. i am not pretending to know it is just amature clues. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 15:54:46 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Re: Steady tagdi Hey, I never knocked the guy for his English, a language that is very difficult to pick up compared to other languages, I just asked about his background (Libya, with time in U.S. and now Holland) and implied that his racist remarks were better left unsaid. Though I'm sure he has reasons for his feelings. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 17:45:05 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mike Markowski Organization: University of Delaware, Newark Subject: Re: Hello! In article <178849.ensmtp@mcoe.k12.ca.us>, Bob Laughton wrote: > >I just up & joined this list as soon as I learned of its existence. Is there a >FAQ available? Hi, Bob, There's a fantastic one at URL: http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf/fuller-faq.html Happy reading, Mike -- Mike Markowski http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~markowsk/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:27:11 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Helen Young Organization: Netcom Subject: GeoWeb For GIS/GPS/RS GeoWeb is the first interactive Web site specifically designed for GIS/GPS/RS communities. GeoWeb provides On-Line resources for Geo-Technology professionals. With GeoWeb, you can: - Search GIS/GPS/Remote Sensing Companies - Search GIS/GPS/RS Users - Search Geo Home Pages - Read Geo Product News - Find A Job - Post Resume. GeoWeb is HOT. In October, 1995, GeoWeb has about 38,800 visitors from 38 nations over the world! GeoWeb's URL is http://www.ggrweb.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 20:07:30 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: DOME MANUF UPDATE GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore Revised Oct 31, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Allard Engineering OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? __________________ ? Email: South Lee, MA 01260 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Jul 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Email: Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: American Ingenuity Verified: May 1995 8777 Holiday Springs Road ? Email: Rockledge, FL 32955-5805 Tel: 407-639-8777 Fax: 407-639-8778 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Big Outdoors People, Inc, The OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 2201 N.E.Kennedy St. Dennis H. Kelly Email: Minneapolis, MN 55413 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin California Domes Verified: Jul 1994 P.O.Box 1047 Ralph Stevens Email: Middletown, CA 95461 Tel: 707-987-3511 Fax: Cascade Domes Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 1977 ? Email: Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Cathedralite Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 1105 ? Email: Medford, OR 97501 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Daystar Shelter Corp. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 22509 Cedar Drive, NW ? Email: Bethel, MN 55006 Tel: 612-753-4981 Fax: Dome Creations OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 211 East Maulding Michael L. Pronow Email: Las Vegas, NV 89119 Tel: 702-387-6311 Fax: Dome East Corp. SEE SPACE STRUCTURES INTERNATIONAL Verified: ___ 19?? 325 Duffy Ave. ? Email: Hicksville, NY 11801 Tel: 516-938-0545 Fax: Dome Enterprises, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 414 Simonton St Lyn Kephart Email: Key West, FL 33040 Tel: Fax: Dome Home Systems, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? Lakeshore Road K. Parry Harding Email: Reedsburg, WI 53939 Tel: 608-524-4555 Fax: Dome Kits International OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? Lakeshore Road K. Parry Harding Email: Reedsburg, WI 53939 Tel: Fax: Dome Technology Verified: Oct 1995 3007 E. 49th St ? Email: N. Idaho Falls, ID 83401 Tel: 208-529-0833 Fax: 208-529-0854 Concrete http://www.netib.com/manufacturing/dome/page1.html Domes America OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 6345 West Jolie Road ? Email: Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: Domes and Homes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 365 ? Email: Brielle, NJ 08730 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood Skin Domespace Verified: Oct 1995 510 East 80th St, Suite 5-B ? http://www.branch.com/dome/dome.html New York, NY 10021 Tel:212-517-7920 Fax: 212-861-9793 DomEstic Designs Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 4203 ? Email: Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Dyna-Dome OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 22226 North 23rd Ave. ? Email: Phoenix, AZ 85207 Tel: Fax: Hub connector kits only Earthwhile Verified: Jul 1994 4209 Maxwell Road David Falasco Email: Colorado Springs, CO 80909 Tel: 719-596-5337 Fax: Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Jul 1994 893 Wilson Avenue J. & Kevin Frawley Email: St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Envisioneering Verified: Oct 1995 _____?________ Richard Lalonde E-Mail:envision@ottawa.net _________?___________ Tel: Fax: Triodetic components; domes, trusses, etc. http://www.ottawa.net/~envision/ Expo Domes International OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 575, 608 Hwy-110 N. Juergen Buche Email: Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 214-839-7228 Fax: Free Form Homes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 808 Tate Miller Email: Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-476-8299 Fax: Free Space Geodesics OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 7094 N.Harrison, Suite 165 D. Wind & L. Lore Email: Pinedale, CA 93650 Tel: Fax: Geo-Built Tent Rentals Verified: Jul 1994 1420 Kiser Lake Road Charles E. Leet Email: St. Paris, OH 43072 Tel: 513-663-5017 Fax: Geodesic tents Geodesic Domes and Homes (see Expo Domes Int'l) Verified: ___ 19?? 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard Email: North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos L.McCarter Email: Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Wood kits Geodesic Services OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 6548 ? Email: Bellevue, WA 98007 Tel: Fax: Geodesic Shelters OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 487 ? Email: Calabasas, CA 91302 Tel: Fax: Fiberglass domes GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Jul 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Davies & Van Doren Email: Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Geoshelter Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 1303 Talbott Circle Kenneth Yolman Email: Avon Park, FL 33825 Tel: Fax: Residential dome kits Growing Spaces, Inc. Verified: Oct 1995 P.O.Box 7052 Michael Rader E-Mail: michael@dnaco.net Aspen, CO 81611 Tel: 800-753-9333; 303-923-5713 Fax: Greenhouses http://www.dnaco.net/~michael/growing-spaces/growing-dome.html Hexadome Verified: Jul 1992 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster Email: La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Jul 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Email: Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: Icosa Domes, Inc OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 31 Vendola Drive Steve Elias Email: San Rafael, CA 94903 Tel: 415-479-2030 Fax: Corrugated paperboard domes Key Dome Verified: Apr 1995 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Email: Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Jun 1995 P.O. Box 980427 Einar Thorstein http://www.mmedia.is/kingdome Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Liberty Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 7270 Sundale Drive ? Email: Tujunga, CA 91042 Tel: Fax: Gazebo domes Living Spaces, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 23 Humiston Brook Road Don Kowalski Email: Plantsville, CT 06479 Tel: 203-621-6361 Fax: Lundahl Scientific Verified: Oct 1995 ________?_________ ? E-Mail: que@srv.net Idaho Falls, ID 83401 Tel: Fax: http://snake.srv.net/~que/index.html M.L.D. Construction Verified: Jul 1994 P.O.Box 4173 ? Email: Sonora, CA 95370 Tel: 209-533-3663 Fax: Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Email: Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 800-608-0001 Fax: $20 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Monterey Domes SEE GEODOMES WOODWORKS Verified: Sep 1990 1760 Chicago Ave. ? Email: Riverside, CA 92517 Tel: 800-321-2244 Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Tel: 800-336-4455 in Ca Multi-Domes International OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 200 Warren Ave. ? Email: Fremont, CA 94538 Tel: 408-656-3672 Fax: Greenhouses Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Jul 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Email: Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Fax: Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Habitat Domes of Alaska OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 2249 Louis D. Harter Email: Palmer, AK 99645 Tel: 907-745-5464 Fax: Natural Spaces Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, D. & J. Johnson Email: North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ___ 19?? 999 Harrison Court Klopp & Hamilton Email: Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Jul 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Lyn Boothe Email: Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pacific Dome Systems Verified: Jul 1994 9120 Pike Place, S.E. Chuck & Di Mayhew Email: Port Orchard, WA 98366 Tel: 206-876-4536 Fax: Pond-Brook Products Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Email: Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Email: Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $35 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Schaeffer Domes Verified: Jul 1994 129 Lawrenceville Road James & Bernard Email: Rosendale, NY 12472 Tel: 914-658-8753 Fax: Semispheres Verified: ___ 19?? 1505 Webster Street ? Email: Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: ugly looking! Shelter Systems Verified: Oct 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Email: Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Southern Domes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 18606 ? Email: Pensacola, FL 32523 Tel: 904-474-0084 Fax: Space Structures International OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 325 Duffy Ave. ? Email: Hicksville, NY 11801 Tel: 516-938-0545 Fax: Formerly Dome East Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 400 Stromberg Email: Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $40 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Synapse Domes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 554 D.Scott Simms Email: Lander, WY 82520 Tel: 307-332-5733 Fax: Tel: 307-332-4117 Temcor Verified: ___ 19?? 2825 Toledo Street ? Email: Torrance, CA 90503 Tel: 213-320-0554 Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Timberline Geodesics Verified: Jun 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Email: TLineDomes@aol.com Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Wood strut & plywood skin; Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Tobel Domes Verified: Jul 1994 15249 Golda Odessa Lane Tom Boyle Email: Lakeside, CA 92040 Tel: 619-443-6503 Fax: Topsider Homes Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 848 ? Email: Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes U.S.Geodesics OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 900 Matsonford Road John M.Resheter Email: West Conshohocken, PA 19428 Tel: 215-825-6181 Fax: World Shelters OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 19?? 58 Serra Way Richard Stone Email: San Rafael, CA 94903 Tel: 415-492-0645 Fax: See Icosa Domes ? For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: ___ 1994 One Penn Plaza ? Email: New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Jul 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Email: Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: - National Dome Council Verified: ___19?? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Email: Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 Fax: - DOME (magazine) Verified: Jul 1994 4401 Zepher Stret Donald R. Hoflin Email: donh@hoflin.com Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain.