From MAILER-DAEMON@netaxs.com Sat Apr 26 19:17:46 1997 Return-Path: <> Received: from deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by access.netaxs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA04530 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704262317.TAA04530@access.netaxs.com> Received: (qmail 29572 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1997 23:17:30 -0000 Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 26 Apr 1997 23:17:30 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:17:29 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8c)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9511" To: cjf@NETAXS.COM Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:45:20 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: length of a line Is there a standard formula for the length of a line defined by two points? Point A (x,y,z) , point B (X,Y,Z) Thank you, Steven Combs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:41:00 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Nelsen, Robert (MN26)" Subject: Re: syn-l: tensegrity joemoore@CRUZIO.COM wrote: >Since no atom in the universe ever actually touches another, Except in some of the most interesting places: inside stars, black holes and thermonuclear devices. >everything in the >universe is a tensegrity cohered by tension and compression forces. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:35:05 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Steady tagdi In Message Tue, 31 Oct 1995 15:54:46 +0000 (GMT), Steven L Combs writes: > Hey, I never knocked the guy for his English, a language that is >very difficult to pick up compared to other languages, I just asked about >his background (Libya, with time in U.S. and now Holland) and implied >that his racist remarks were better left unsaid. Though I'm sure he has >reasons for his feelings. Hi Steve actually i get angry at the email which tried to make fun of my email. i thought that in discusions on geodesic it is not that serious since a some of it yet is useless any way. so why complaine about someone who you do not care even to read what he is saying my feeling is that the person who try to mock me actually have no intrest in these difficult problems we are trying to tackle. race or no race the problems are there. politics cant solve them and opinion cant either. so as conserning your email, no hard feeling. we are all children of MUltinationals Co'S M Tagdi I am begining to think that electronic communication is real good luck. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:28:31 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ron Posner end." Subject: Re: length of a line In-Reply-To: On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Steven L Combs wrote: > Is there a standard formula for the length of a line defined by two >points? Point A (x,y,z) , point B (X,Y,Z) >Thank you, >Steven Combs > > Dear Steve: The distance is d=|A-B|= [(x-X)^2+(y-Y)^2+(z-Z)^2]^0.5 Regards, Ron Posner ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:12:29 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "John H. Fisher" Subject: Re: length of a line How about SQRT( (X-x)**2 + (Y-y)**2 + (Z-z)**2 ) or the square root of the sum of the differences squared. At 11:45 AM 11/1/95 GMT, Steven L Combs wrote: > Is there a standard formula for the length of a line defined by two >points? Point A (x,y,z) , point B (X,Y,Z) >Thank you, >Steven Combs > > ____________________________________________________ John H. Fisher jhfisher@ccsi.com Austin, Texas http://www.ccsi.com/~jhfisher/ ____________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:32:43 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: CHARAS CONTENTS CONTENTS OF _CHARAS: The Improbable Dome Builders_ by Syeus Mottel (1973) TITLE PAGE 1 pic ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS AUTHOR'S NOTE A. EVERYBODY'S BUSINESS (Forword by R.Buckminster Fuller) 2 pics B. THE EVENT 90 pics C. THE NEW PEOPLE 1. James Echevarria 4 pics 2. Roberta Fulton 2 pics 3. Tony Guitard 3 pics 4. Luis Antonio Lopez 1 pic 5. Felix Almodova 2 pics 6. David Lorenzano 2 pics 7. Mark Spagnola 2 pics 8. David LaTouche 1 pic 9. Matty Small 2 pics 10. Wilfredo Lopez 2 pics D. THE GUIDE AND FRIEND (Michael Ben-Eli) 6 pics E. THE ORIGINAL SIX 1. C hino Garcia 3 pics 2. H umberto Crespo 2 pics 3. A ngelo Gonzalez, Jr. 2 pics 4. R oy Battiste 6 pics 5. A nthony Figueroa 2 pics 6. S al Becker 2 pics F. CONCLUSION G. APPENDIX (by Michael Ben-Eli) 1. General Description 9 drawings 2. The Charas Dome--Geometry 5 drawings 3. The Charas Dome--Structure and Construction 10 drawings (NO INDEX) -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:56:28 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: POWER & Phones tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL said: > " POWER " > =============--------------> [Interesting stuff snipped here] > 4 telephones have 6 relations ( 6 connection ) Well, I guess so, but if one pays attention to who called who, the actual number of combinations is 12, which is a much more clear description of the number of "connections". The equation is (n^2) - n, so 4 squared would be 16, then minus 4 would be 12. This of course ignores dual-line phones, answering machines, and (my personal favorite) central-office based answering systems that take a message when you are on your line. Of course, if everyone had call waiting, and everyone called everyone else... As usual, just trying to have some fun. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:08:28 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Josi Hillary Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Subject: I am curious In-Reply-To: <309793F1@HonCBG41.Honeywell.COM> I live in Northern Virginia but work in Maryland. Therefore, every work day I cross the Potomac river into Washington D.C., drop my wife in down town and then reach my work place in Hyattsville, Md. I do this year round. My perception is Potomac river is always flowing and emptying the waters into Chesapeake bay. We had a dry summer this year, but through a layman's perspective, there was still the river flow. What I am curious about is, where is this water coming from? I cannot conceive of ice caps on mountains upstream melting - the other day when I was in Salt Lake City, Utah, I raised similar curiosity and and was given ice melting explanation. But where is Potomac getting year round supply of water? In all my life living in this area, I have never seen a dry bed in Potomac! Tagdi, if you are listening, help me!! Josi Hillary ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:01:06 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Byron Kindig Organization: Netcom Subject: Math Question I have been trying to understand how to calculate the shapes of the triangular panels to build a dome and have gotten far enough to figure the angular distances between points on the surfaces (verteces) but I am stuck as to how to figure the angle of the bevel on the edges of the panels. Can anyone help? This would really be the same as the angle between the base face and sides of an irregular tetrahedron I think. I seems like it should be simple, but after a year of asking friends, no one seems to be able to answer my question. Thanks in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:36:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Futhey Subject: Re: length of a line Yes, it is: SquareRoot of ((X-x)^2 + (Y-y)^2 + (Z-z)^2) Where ^2 means the function squared. Hope this helps John Futhey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 22:38:23 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jay Hanson Organization: InterLink Hawaii Subject: coming soon to a location near you coming soon to a location near you: GANG RAPE AND ETHNIC CLEANSING Our corporate society is self-evidently, NOT SUSTAINABLE! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Sustainable development" is improvement in the quality of life while remaining in a state of continuity with the initial physical conditions. This requires that all physical systems be "circular" because all linear physical systems must eventually end. Moreover, sustainable development requires sustainable social systems. Evidence for unststainability, ipso facto, is everywhere: desertification, topsoil loss, falling water tables, filling garbage dumps, ozone depletion, global warming, human sperm decline, rising cancer rates, loss of biodiversity, collapsing ocean fisheries, depletion of oil, nuclear waste, 300,000 to 400,000 polluted ground water sites, pesticide-resistant pests, antibiotic-resistant disease, billions of people in the Third World planning to industrialize; social problems such as jobless futures, the national debt, crack babies, declining SAT scores, skyrocketing teenage pregency, violence and suicide, or [name your poison]! Corporations (machines) ingest natural resources (including people) in one end, and excrete un-natural products and waste (including worn-out people) out the other. Corporate machines have no innate morals to keep them from seducing our politicians, subverting our democratic processes or lying in order to achieve their own selfish objectives. Moreover, these machines are only nominally controlled by laws, because the people who make our laws are in turn controlled by these same machines. Today in America, we live under the de facto plutocracy of the corporate machines. (one-dollar-one-vote) Obviously, more and more humans competing for fewer and fewer resources will ultimately result in war of all against all (Walinski, Kaplan, Homer-Dixon). We could opt to continue society's present course, destroying the ability of our earth to support human life in an orgy of procreation and consumption; and then face the murderous consequences -- a thousand years of terror -- or extinction! The only arguments that can be made against doing this are religious and ethical: the obligation of stewardship for all of God's creation and the extension of brotherhood to future generations. But corporate machines have no religion or morals -- and we have no chance. Jay References cited: ------------------------------------------------------------- THE CRISIS OF PUBLIC ORDER by Adam Walinski The Department of Justice now says that "stranger murders" have become four times as common as family killings, and that the chances of getting away with one exceed 80 percent. Scholars say the nation's murder rate may soon double. The author says we are inviting this "long decent into night" of crime by teaching violent young people that "we will do almost anything not to have to act to defend ourselves, our country, or our character as people of decency and strength". "NUMBERS are useful in politics, because they are more neutral than adjectival speech and because they express magnitude -- that is, they can tell us not only that we confront a danger but also what the depth and direction of the danger are. The most important numbers in America deal with violence -- not the occasional terrorist violence but the terror of everyday life as it is lived by millions of citizens today, and as it threatens to become for many more of us for the rest of this century and beyond." "Many people can also remember years before 1992, in large cities and in small. In 1960, for example, six murders, four rapes, and sixteen robberies were reported in New Haven, Connecticut. In 1990 that city, with a population 14 percent smaller, had thirty-one murders,168 rapes, and 1,784 robberies: robbery increased more than 100 times, or 10,000 percent, over thirty years. . . "New Haven is not unique. In Milwaukee in 1965 there were twenty-seven murders, thirty-three rapes, and 214 robberies, and in 1990, when the city was smaller, there were 165 murders, 598 rapes, and 4,472 robberies: robbery became twenty-one times as frequent in twenty-five years. New York City in 1951 had 244 murders; every year for more than a decade it has had nearly 2,000 murders." THE CRISIS OF PUBLIC ORDER by Adam Walinski,in the July 1995 Atlantic Monthly. For back issues send $5 to: The Atlantic, Back Issues, 200 North 12th St., Newark, NJ. 07107 -------------------------------------------------------------- THE COMING ANARCHY by Robert Kaplan "The cities of West Africa at night are some of the unsafest places in the world. Streets are unlit; the police often lack gasoline for their vehicles; armed burglars, carjackers, and muggers proliferate. `The government in Sierra Leone has no writ after dark,' says a foreign resident, shrugging. When I was in the capital, Freetown, last September, eight men armed with AK-47s broke into the house of an American man. They tied him up and stole everything of value. Forget Miami: direct flights between the United States and the Murtala Muhammed Airport, in neighboring Nigeria's largest city, Lagos, have been suspended by order of the U.S. Secretary of Transportation because of ineffective security at the terminal and its environs. A State Department report cited the airport for 'extortion by law-enforcement and immigration officials.' This is one of the few times that the U.S. government has embargoed a foreign airport for reasons that are linked purely to crime. In Abidjan, effectively the capital of the Cote d'Ivoire, or Ivory Coast, restaurants have stick-and-gun-wielding guards who walk you the fifteen feet or so between your car and the entrance, giving you an eerie taste of what American cities might be like in the future. An Italian ambassador was killed by gunfire when robbers invaded an Abidjan restaurant. The family of the Nigerian ambassador was tied up and robbed at gunpoint in the ambassador's residence. After university students in the Ivory Coast caught bandits who had been plaguing their dorms, they executed them by hanging tires around their necks and setting the tires on fire. In one instance Ivorian policemen stood by and watched the 'necklacings,' afraid to intervene. Each time I went to the Abidjan bus terminal, groups of young men with restless, scanning eyes surrounded my taxi, putting their hands all over the windows, demanding 'tips' for carrying my luggage even though I had only a rucksack. In cities in six West African countries I saw similar young men everywhere -- hordes of them. They were like loose molecules in a very unstable social fluid, a fluid that was clearly on the verge of igniting." A PREMONITION OF THE FUTURE "West Africa is becoming THE symbol of worldwide demographic, environmental, and societal stress, in which criminal anarchy emerges as the real `strategic' danger. Disease, overpopulation, unprovoked crime, scarcity of resources, refugee migrations, the increasing erosion of nation-states and international borders, and the empowerment of private armies, security firms, and international drug cartels are now most tellingly demonstrated through a West African prism. West Africa provides an appropriate introduction to the issues, often extremely unpleasant to discuss, that will soon confront our civilization. ..." THE COMING ANARCHY, by Robert Kaplan, in the Feb 1994 Atlantic Monthly. For back issues send $5 to: The Atlantic, Back Issues, 200 North 12th St., Newark, NJ. 07107 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Environmental Scarcities and Violent Conflict: Evidence from Cases Thomas F. Homer-Dixon Peace and Conflict Studies Program University of Toronto International Security, Vol. 19, No. I (Summer 1994), pp. 5 40 Not to be reprinted in any form without the permission of the copyright holder or MIT Press Journals. Reprinted with permission by the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Copyright 1994 by the President and Fellows of Harvard College and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Within the next fifty years, the planet's human population will probably pass nine billion, and global economic output may quintuple. Largely as a result, scarcities of renewable resources will increase sharply. The total area of high-quality agricultural land will drop, as will the extent of forests and the number of species they sustain. Coming generations will also see the widespread depletion and degradation of aquifers, rivers, and other water resources; the decline of many fisheries; and perhaps significant climate change. If such "environmental scarcities" become severe, could they precipitate violent civil or international conflict? I have previously surveyed the issues and evidence surrounding this question and proposed an agenda for further research.{1} Here I report the results of an international research project guided by this agenda.{2} Following a brief review of my original hypotheses and the project's research design, I present several general findings of this research that led me to revise the original hypotheses 2E The article continues with an account of empirical evidence for and against the revised hypotheses, and it concludes with an assessment of the implications of environmentally induced conflict for international security. In brief, our research showed that environmental scarcities are already contributing to violent conflicts in many parts of the developing world. These conflicts are probably the early signs of an upsurge of violence in the coming decades that will be induced or aggravated by scarcity. The violence will usually be sub-national, persistent, and diffuse. Poor societies will be particularly affected since they are less able to buffer themselves from environmental scarcities and the social crises they cause. These societies are, in fact, already suffering acute hardship from shortages of water, forests, and especially fertile land. Social conflict is not always a bad thing: mass mobilization and civil strife can produce opportunities for beneficial change in the distribution of land and wealth and in processes of governance. But fast-moving, unpredictable, and complex environmental problems can overwhelm efforts at constructive social reform. Moreover, scarcity can sharply increase demands on key institutions, such as the state, while it simultaneously reduces their capacity to meet those demands. These pressures increase the chance that the state will either fragment or become more authoritarian. The negative effects of severe environmental scarcity are therefore likely to outweigh the positive. [snip] ************************************************************* Also see: Thomas Homer-Dixon, Jeffrey Boutwell, and George Rathjens, "Environmental Scarcity and Violent Conflict," Scientific American, February 1993; and from Homer-Dixon, "Environmental Scarcity and Global Security" Headline Series (New York: Foreign Policy Association, 1993). http://www.fsk.ethz.ch/fsk/encop/enc_ftx.html gopher://gopher.aaas.org/11/.activities/.int/.sis/.epsl gopher://csf.colorado.edu/11/environment/authors/Hanson.Jay -- -------------------------------------------------------------- "The market economy is replacing a complex organic environment with a simplified inorganic one, literally dissembling a biosphere that has supported humanity for countless millennia. In the course of replacing the complex ecological relationships, on which all living things depend, with more elementary ones, capitalism is restoring the biosphere to a stage where it will be able to support only simpler forms of life. ... The earth will become incapable of supporting humanity itself." [Bookchin 1980:230-1] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 06:42:27 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: BFVI UPDATE Joe Moore wrote: > THE BUCKY FULLER VIRTUAL INSTITUTE (BFVI) > > by Joe S. Moore Updated Oct 28, 1995 Pretty amazing list Joe. I've also taken your list of dome manufacturers (with attribution) and turned it into an HTML table for display at: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeman.html I hope you will link to it and help me keep it up to date. Missing from my web site is any info on Stuart's Design Science items, Tensegritoy, Roger's Connection etc. I found both the latter on a web page recently. Will have to search again and make the link -- or come up with something locally. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 06:54:27 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Triangles as basic shapes and a book James Fischer wrote: >By pure luck, I also came across a copy of "Cosmic Fishing" >by E. J. Applewhite. It is a first-person account of the >experience he had writing Synergetics with Bucky. I have >not finished the book yet, but it explains much for those >who are interested in the background behind what is presented >as a "whole systems approach" in Synergetics. > >The chronological evidence seems to indicate that the broad >scope of the book was a result of much cutting and pasting, >then painstaking elimination of contradiction when and where >it was discovered. > Yes, Cosmic Fishing is fun to come across. Ed was a Bucky fan since age 13 or so. Made his career in the CIA. Still very active in Fuller circles -- was on the board of BFI until just recently (Ed and Shirley Sharkey, RBF's long time personal secretary, both recently resigned, feeling disillusioned with decisions taken by core BFI executives). Ed has also compiled a four volume Synergetics Dictionary, wherein 5x8 note cards citing or transcribing Fuller's remarks are alphabetized and chronologized across every subject and scenario Fuller ever expounded upon, complete with bibliographic citations. A miniature Fuller Archives (New York: Garland Press) in print. Ed is also the author of Paradise Mislaid, a book about the scientific definition of life (the history, evolution, and vagueness of), and of a guide book to the architecture of Washington DC, as well as numerous articles, mostly on Fuller (e.g. most recently in the Chemical Intelligencer, Springer-Verlag). Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:44:13 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: POWER & Phones In Message Wed, 01 Nov 1995 17:56:28 -0500, James Fischer writes: >tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL said: > >> " POWER " >> =============--------------> > > [Interesting stuff snipped here] > >> 4 telephones have 6 relations ( 6 connection ) > > Well, I guess so, but if one pays attention to who > called who, the actual number of combinations is 12, > which is a much more clear description of the number > of "connections". The equation is (n^2) - n, so > 4 squared would be 16, then minus 4 would be 12. > > This of course ignores dual-line phones, answering > machines, and (my personal favorite) central-office > based answering systems that take a message when you > are on your line. > > Of course, if everyone had call waiting, and everyone > called everyone else... > > As usual, just trying to have some fun. > >The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". >Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." > i thought that information about a system reduces entropy, i have not read Toffler last book war and peace or smothing, it goes on on the possibilities of entropy caused by humans. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:35:40 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: tagdi & entropy my current .sig is: >>The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". >>Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." and tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL commented upon it thusly: > i thought that information about a system reduces entropy, > i have not read Toffler last book war and peace or smothing, it > goes on on the possibilities of entropy caused by humans. Sorry tadgi, but from a purist perspective, even the creation and storage of the information about a system increases the overall entropy of the universe as a whole by some small amount, even if it might SEEM to decrease the (I assume mental) "confusion" about the specific system in question. Yes it is depressing, but no matter what we do, we take high-grade (useful) energy, and turn it into lower grade (much less useful) energy or matter. Even if we do NOTHING AT ALL, stars will continue to burn, plants will grow, live and die, and so on. These processes also increase the net overall entropy. The good news is that the much-ballyhooed "heat death of the universe" is even further off than even the eventual "death" of our own Sun. This means that we will all be safely and cosily dead (as will a minimum of several hundred generations yet to come after us) long before any of this becomes an issue for the general public to worry about. As for Toffler, I put him in the same class as Carl Sagan - too much fluff, not enough facts. Therefore, Toffler and his ilk create and profit from a special form of entropy I like to call "information entropy", where the amount of "noise" (fluff and nonsense) far outweighs the amount of useable factual data to the point where, for example, a typical library contains more half-truth and lies than facts. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:27:38 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: I am curious >My perception is Potomac river is always flowing and emptying the waters >into Chesapeake bay. We had a dry summer this year, but through a >layman's perspective, there was still the river flow. True. It should never run dry, even though it may be lower than usual during a dry spell. >What I am curious about is, where is this water coming from... The Potomac has hundreds (perhaps thousands) of feeder-streams if you look at a topo map, you can trace back all the smaller streams and rivers that feed into any river. In the case of the Potomac, the water comes from all over. The starting points are springs, rain that fell to the north, west, and slightly south, ponds and lakes that feed slowly into the watershed, hydroelectric dam output flow, and such. I assure you that no glaciers feed into the Potomac. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 22:17:24 -800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: username Subject: Eliptical Geodesic structures I try to find information, both theoretical and practical on eliptical dome structures. Can you help me? Thank you Marco.Tognon@ping.be ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:58:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mike Markowski Organization: University of Delaware, Newark Subject: Re: length of a line In article <199511012028.PAA03927@home.ocala.com>, Ron Posner end. wrote: >On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Steven L Combs wrote: >> Is there a standard formula for the length of a line defined by two >>points? Point A (x,y,z) , point B (X,Y,Z) >> >Dear Steve: >The distance is d=|A-B|= [(x-X)^2+(y-Y)^2+(z-Z)^2]^0.5 Look at you Bucky fans. Of all people, you should be embarassed! :-) It doesn't matter which defining points are referenced, a line is infinite in length... Now _that's_ an easy formula! Just-a funnin', Mike PS By the way, I'm new to the list. Hi all! -- Mike Markowski http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~markowsk/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 16:52:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Nelsen, Robert (MN26)" Subject: Re: syn-l: tensegrity joemoore@CRUZIO.COM wrote: >Since no atom in the universe ever actually touches another, Except in some of the most interesting places: inside stars, black holes and thermonuclear devices. >everything in the >universe is a tensegrity cohered by tension and compression forces. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 18:57:29 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Eliptical Geodesic structures In-Reply-To: <199511022016.VAA06546@ping1.ping.be>; from "username" at Nov 2, 95 2:45 pm username writes: > > I try to find information, both theoretical and practical on eliptical dome stru > ctures. > Can you help me? > Thank you > Marco.Tognon@ping.be > .- > See Chapter 13 (Ellipses and Superellipses) of _Geodesic Math and How to Use It_ by Hugh Kenner (1976) and pages 35-9 (Elliptical Domes) and page 111 of _Domebook 2_ by Pacific Domes (1971). -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 19:01:03 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: syn-l: tensegrity In-Reply-To: <3375DD5C; from "Nelsen, Robert" at Nov 2, 95 4:52 pm Nelsen, Robert writes: > > joemoore@CRUZIO.COM wrote: > > >Since no atom in the universe ever actually touches another, > > Except in some of the most interesting places: inside stars, black holes > and thermonuclear devices. > Even in those places nothing touches. No two things can occupy the same space at the same time. > >everything in the > >universe is a tensegrity cohered by tension and compression forces. > .- > -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:32:22 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Ques. re "Triacon" derivation Does anyone know what the word "triacon" derives from? Is it just the obvious "three together"? Bill Lauritzen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:52:51 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: length of a line In Message Thu, 02 Nov 1995 17:58:49 +0000 (GMT), Mike Markowski writes: >In article <199511012028.PAA03927@home.ocala.com>, >Ron Posner end. wrote: >>On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Steven L Combs wrote: >>> Is there a standard formula for the length of a line defined by two >>>points? Point A (x,y,z) , point B (X,Y,Z) >>> >>Dear Steve: >>The distance is d=|A-B|= [(x-X)^2+(y-Y)^2+(z-Z)^2]^0.5 > >Look at you Bucky fans. Of all people, you should be >embarassed! :-) It doesn't matter which defining >points are referenced, a line is infinite in length... tagdi that is a Greek postulate "axioma". its quite painful assumtion to jettison. axioma;< Gr. axios,worty>1. a statment universally accpted as true; maxim b. self evident truth 2. established principle, scientific law,ect ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:51:38 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: tagdi & entropy > > As for Toffler, I put him in the same class as Carl Sagan - > too much fluff, not enough facts. Therefore, Toffler and > his ilk create and profit from a special form of entropy > I like to call "information entropy", where the amount of > "noise" (fluff and nonsense) far outweighs the amount of > useable factual data to the point where, for example, a > typical library contains more half-truth and lies than > facts. > i heard that he wrote his future shock in richfield Kenneticet, i worked there in 1984 for 3 months or so in a french resturant. i read the 3 wave in very messy times and i thought the same< what a mess>. no clarity, small ideas that branch and branch with no over view. but i wonder why his name sit in the back of synergetic as if he understood what the book is all about. Clark was a memmber of socity for space exploration in 1920 or saw, he also doesnot know much about much, even though i like what i read from him (short stories ) a sort of bitter likrish irony....... there were quite few intresting people in the rocket exploration busniess, just an impression i had not at all familiar with the subject. as a matter of fact i feel that i am entropic process. oh i forgot Sagon, i never could digest one sentence from him. if there is ever neucolour holocost i think he should be accuse of the cause of it, just personal distaste.may be becuse he never get to the" Voint". Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:52:30 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: syn-l: tensegrity Comments: To: Nelsen Robert In-Reply-To: <309A2B76@HonCBG41.Honeywell.COM>; from "Nelsen, Robert" at Nov 3, 95 8:40 am Fuller used the term "close proximity" in place of the word "touch". He viewed the whole universe as a giant tensegrity, even down to the level of sub-atomic particles. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:42:23 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Ques. re "Triacon" derivation In-Reply-To: <47brf6$27a@newsbf02.news.aol.com>; from "WLauritzen" at Nov 2, 95 8:32 pm WLauritzen writes: > > Does anyone know what the word > "triacon" derives from? Is it just the > obvious "three together"? > > Bill Lauritzen > .- > See page 66 of _Geodesic Math and How to Use It_ by Kenner: "The diamond ADEC, made up of two of them, is one face of a spherical rhombic triacontahedron, hence the nickname 'triacon' for this breakdown." -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:23:54 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Organization: Online Internet Services Corporation Subject: Re : Eliptical Geodesic structures Refer to: Popular Science, January 1990 Elliptical dome Using elliptical mathematics, a retired chemist (Craig Yacoe, Chadds Ford, Pa.) has invented a new dome shape he calls 'geotangent'. The design solves some problems he found with geodesic domes. Yacoe - patent for spherical geotangent dome William E. Davis - mathematician did a computer program -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 20:06:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe Smith\"." Subject: Re : Eliptical Geodesic structures >Refer to: >Popular Science, January 1990 >Elliptical dome Did anybody build such a thing? how does it look? frank fLUX@thing.net +(718)599-9377 fLUX Box 2141 New York NY 10163 USA fLUX vol. one: PLANET GENIUS http://hyperreal.com/music/reviews/davis/flux.planet/flux1.html fLUX vol. two: MYSTERY OF THE LEAPING FISH. ... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 11:37:06 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: capital exploration for oil may easily cost an oil company a million a day. world oil production 1857 20,000 barrel 1860 500,000 = as late as 1925 U.S produced 71% of world oil 1955 44% 1969 22% 1948 U.S became net importer of oil. 25% of Venzula oil owned by Royal shell another 25% by U.S 50%of this oil go to aruba and curaco refineres which go to latin america and europe. N.Africa,Midleast income(oil) in 1968 was 4.4 billion dollars. 1972 10 = = the U.S supplied 6 billion barrel out of 7 for the world second war. Fuller says it the two wars cost 1 trillion dollar. wealth is connected to energy since 1929. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 12:07:53 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Change(in the concept of wealth) for 2000 years most nation priced commodities in silver and even the value of gold was often expressed in terms of silver money. the english currency of 1821 was the first nation in the world to be based on gold standard. in 1870 nation after nation exited from silver to gold standards ( great gold supplies, Cal). since 1965 nonsilver coins have been introduced to U.S and several others and have virtually eliminated the use of silver for monetary purposes. sterling became the key currency for the world during the decades befor WW1, while sterling was technically on gold standard the world currencey system was in fact manged by the bank of england British gold reserve were very low they averagedd a few 100s million dollars for decades. Int montary fund after WII established pool of international reserve 1/4 in gold or $, rest in country currency. this system worked till 1971 when U.S announced it would not buy dollars for gold on the official market. (*at the time American deficit was few billion dollars) world system has moved steadily away from gold during the entire postwar period. scatered notes. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 22:03:55 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: Re: coming soon to a location near you Those who rail against corporations do so on computers created by corporations on over telephone lines developed, and run by corporations. They eat corporate food, they drive corporate cars powered by corporate gas. In general, they are sustained by corporations. Like people, there are good corporations and bad corporations. Or more accurately there are good corporate behaviors and bad ones. To decry corporations in general to be the problem is an over simplification. If you can find an alternative way to provide all the good services provided , I would like to here about it. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 22:16:58 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: Re: CHARAS CONTENTS Joe, What is the book about ? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 09:20:30 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: CHARAS CONTENTS In-Reply-To: <47elva$6q@pipe2.nyc.pipeline.com>; from "Anthony Kalenak" at Nov 3, 95 10:16 pm Anthony Kalenak writes: > > Joe, > What is the book about ? > .- > How a bunch of gang members in NYC built a ferrocement geodesic dome. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 15:03:05 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: RBF wrong about entropy As Mr. Fischer's tagline reminds us, the second law of thermodynamics states that entropy is increasing. Yet Bucky claimed that this was shown not to be true due to the fact that there are two A modules for every B module in Allspace. Thanks to Robert Gray's clever suggestion on positioning geodesic forms such that their vertexes are whole number coordinates, and several readers' help with the formula for the length of a vector defined by a given start and end point, I have been able to compute the internal vector stars of the A and B quanta modules with complete accuracy. This allows me to finish the work on the electron model in the Synergetic Atomic Model. I withheld the electron section from copies of the SAM that were distributed to inquiring listmembers recently, awaiting this completion. The electron model is predicted by observed data to consist of 1.558V , where V is the sum of the internal vectors defining electron model space. I have been working towards the idea that the SAM's electron model would be either an Isomatrix A module or Isomatrix B module (an Isomatrix module is formed by subdividing a tetrahedron with edge of s' - compared to the standard A or B module formed by subdividing a tetrahedron of edge 2s'). Working with only approximate values for Isomatrix A internal vector star of 1.4V and Isomatrix B internal vector star of 1.6V, it seemed likely that the electron was a potential A or B. This now seems to be true with the unexpected difference that the electron predicted value of 1.558V is most nearly achieved by combining 3 quanta module vector star values and dividing by 3. But it is not the two A's and one B that a Fuller fan might expect. Instead, it is two B's and one A. 2(1.62919...) + (1.41885...) ____________________________ = 1.55908 V 3 This suggests a synergetic model of the electron that represents increasing entropy, rather than the static notion of simple Allspace and it's decreasing entropy. And this stands to reason since the 2nd law of thermodynamics hasn't yet been repealed. Thanks again to listmembers for their help. Anyone interested in an updated version of the Synergetic Atomic Model, now with new, improved electron model, drop me a line (oops, I mean a vector deifined by a start point and an end point.). Sincerely, Steven Lee Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 13:57:49 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: J M Fritzman Subject: Mid-South CFP Comments: To: girard@think.net, green@indycms.uipui.edu, H-IDEAS@uicvm.uic.edu, h-law@uicvm.bitnet, gemcs-l@vaxc.hofstra.edu, gender@indiana.edu, generalist@think.net Call for papers Please distribute MID-SOUTH PHILOSOPHY CONFERENCE The 20th annual Mid-South Philosophy Conference is scheduled for Friday afternoon and Saturday -- February 23-24, 1996 -- at The University of Memphis, USA. Papers on any topic of philosophic interest are welcomed. Papers are limited to 30 minutes reading time (normally, 12 double-spaced pages). Send TWO printed copies with a 100-word abstract (if possible, include an ASCII copy on a computer diskette) to: Professor Ralph D. Ellis Department of Religion & Philosophy Clark Atlanta University James P. Brawdley Drive at Fair Street SW Atlanta, GA 30314 Papers must be submitted by JANUARY 5, 1996. Please include your email address. Papers will be reviewed by a committee, and notification of acceptance will be made in late January. Each paper will have a commentator. Those interested in commenting should notify Professor Ellis no later than January 26 of your availability and areas of interest. His email address is rellis@cau.edu and his telephone number is 404-981-8187. Professor SUSAN HAACK of The University of Miami will b the keynote speaker. Funding for the keynote speaker is provided by The University of Memphis Center for the Humanities, directed by Professor Thomas Nenon. The University of Memphis Undergraduate Philosophy Conference will be running parallel sessions. Please encourage students to attend and submit papers. Professor Nenon will make arrangements at local hotels, and he will work with the Undergraduate Philosophy Conference. He can be contacted at TNENON@admin2.memphis.edu or at The Center for the Humanities, The University of Memphis, Memphis, TN 38152. The Mid-South Philosophy Conference is supported and underwritten by The Philosophy Department & The Center for the Humanities of The University of Memphis, and by The Philosophy Department & The Institute of Liberal Arts of Oklahoma City University. CALL FOR PAPERS PLEASE DISTRIBUTE CALL FOR PAPERS ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 18:56:32 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Downloadable: Build Tensegrities, View in Stereo, with STRUCK DOWNLOADABLE SOFTWARE: ftp://ftp.newciv.org/usr/gerald/struck.zip By Gerald de Jong struck.zip 90K zip This C++ program (executable & sample files, early beta, requires Windows platform) allows the user to interactively construct geometrical wire frames from expandable/compressable members which dynamically readjust as they are stretched or compressed. With the double-image option and a little practice, you can view your wire frames in stereo. Save and share your work in .RBF format. For more info, visit Gerald's page on Struck. Other stuff by Gerald, with a link to his home page: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/gdj_gall.html Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 19:05:16 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: coming soon to a location near you jhanson@ilhawaii.net (Jay Hanson) wrote: > coming soon to a location near you: > GANG RAPE AND ETHNIC CLEANSING > >Our corporate society is self-evidently, NOT SUSTAINABLE! > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Common knowledge I thought. The question is where and how to make changes. >Evidence for unststainability, ipso facto, is everywhere: >desertification, topsoil loss, falling water tables, filling >garbage dumps, ozone depletion, global warming, human sperm >decline, rising cancer rates, loss of biodiversity, collapsing >ocean fisheries, depletion of oil, nuclear waste, 300,000 to >400,000 polluted ground water sites, pesticide-resistant >pests, antibiotic-resistant disease, billions of people in >the Third World planning to industrialize; social problems >such as jobless futures, the national debt, crack babies, >declining SAT scores, skyrocketing teenage pregency, violence >and suicide, or [name your poison]! The sources (reprints) at the end do not bolster all of the above. My understanding is teen pregnancy has not skyrocketed and that the USA murder rate per capita has fallen in the last year or two. >Obviously, more and more humans competing for fewer and fewer >resources will ultimately result in war of all against all >(Walinski, Kaplan, Homer-Dixon). Malthusianism personified. >We could opt to continue society's present course, destroying >the ability of our earth to support human life in an orgy of >procreation and consumption; and then face the murderous >consequences -- a thousand years of terror -- or extinction! > >The only arguments that can be made against doing this are >religious and ethical: the obligation of stewardship for all >of God's creation and the extension of brotherhood to future >generations. Many good scientific arguments too. Why just 'religious and ethical'. Seems no good arguments on the other side if you ask me. >But corporate machines have no religion or morals -- >and we have no chance. So, you've given up have you? Oh well, more work for the rest of us I guess. If your alarmism and defeatism are the best response we have, then obviously we're doomed. Fortunately, I think much of the thinking going on about global and local problems is of higher caliber. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 19:13:53 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Math Question byronk@ix.netcom.com (Byron Kindig ) wrote: >I have been trying to understand how to calculate the shapes of the >triangular panels to build a dome and have gotten far enough to figure >the angular distances between points on the surfaces (verteces) but I >am stuck as to how to figure the angle of the bevel on the edges of the >panels. > >Can anyone help? > >This would really be the same as the angle between the base face and >sides of an irregular tetrahedron I think. I seems like it should be >simple, but after a year of asking friends, no one seems to be able to >answer my question. > >Thanks in advance. I agree that the tetrahedron from the surface panel to the geosphere center looks like it would be the same as the bevel. Seems if you can compute the right triangle between a panel center, the geosphere center (radius of sphere), and a mid-edge point, you would get the angle you're looking for. But it might be a little different on each of the 3 edges. Machining to such accuracy would seem a problem. Wondering if the bevel design is the easiest, but then I have no idea of what you're constructing. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 19:08:28 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: length of a line >Look at you Bucky fans. Of all people, you should be >embarassed! :-) It doesn't matter which defining >points are referenced, a line is infinite in length... > >Now _that's_ an easy formula! > >Just-a funnin', >Mike > >PS By the way, I'm new to the list. Hi all! Welcome to the list. BTW, lines of infinite length (like volumes of infinite extension) are undefined in Synergetics (Bucky's geometry), which dispenses with many of the Euclidean presuppositions. The distance forumula remains as useful as always tho -- Tagdi I hope you weren't suggesting we throw it away. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner & Dawn Wicca "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 23:17:14 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David F. Watkins" Subject: Re: coming soon to a location near you In-Reply-To: <47el6r$s1g@pipe2.nyc.pipeline.com> On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Anthony Kalenak wrote: > Those who rail against corporations do so on computers created by > corporations > on over telephone lines developed, and run by corporations. > They eat corporate food, > they drive corporate cars powered by corporate gas. > In general, they are sustained by corporations. > Like people, there are good corporations and bad corporations. > Or more accurately there are good corporate behaviors and bad ones. > To decry corporations in general to be the problem is an over > simplification. > If you can find an alternative way to provide all the good services > provided , > I would like to here about it. > Agreed, there are good corporations and bad corporations, good corporate behaviors and bad. But, I find your description one sided, just as you seem to find criticism of corporations one sided. We utilize computers, cars and food produced by corporations because by virtue of their great power they have run everybody else out of business (an exageration of course). As for alternatives, consider small business, cooperative efforts and government. In my mind corporations deserve criticism for their greedy consumption of small business, their resistance to cooperative efforts (unions as one example) and their largely sucessful attempt to control government. How does this relate to Bucky? I would the leaders of many big corporations to be the heirs to Bucky's Great Pirates. That said, let me add that I don't believe our problems can be solved without the contributions of those good corporations with the good behaviors. Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:59:55 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Teacher Training Program Comments: To: WLauritzen@aol.com In Message Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:03:49 -0500, WLauritzen@aol.com writes: >Thanks fo your reply. >I have photos, of fair quality. >Your right about educating the kids at >an early age. >Bill L. hello, i just found this idea of children teaching children in Being digital.that will rleave me of constantly explaining and consentrating, since i have no knowldge of how to keep 10 kids working at the same time. i also going to try combining the structure with other eventhings such as wheels for more creativity ( combination). also i am going to give few a zoro mask and try to build a house with closed eyes to give a fuller early experience. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:13:03 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: length of a line > >BTW, lines of infinite length (like volumes of infinite extension) >are undefined in Synergetics (Bucky's geometry), which dispenses >with many of the Euclidean presuppositions. The distance forumula >remains as useful as always tho -- Tagdi I hope you weren't suggesting >we throw it away. > >Kirby draw the line, finishing line , line of death, telephon line cross the line, read the lines, city lane, shipping line etc... i think they derive from the concept of line (vine!), i am just playing at the idea of living in a world without the concept of line, it still with us, the most important thingevent is to correct our thinking to see if it makes a difference. you can use victors for distance, what we are not conxious of is still working, most of the knowldge about squares and tringles is based on existance of line. my quesion is if you show this structures to children what kind of simple ideas that one can tell them so it becomes meaningful. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:52:15 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: RUSSA Comments: To: mvdwete@xs4all.nl Structure: extends 8050 km, 4830 Moscow to Vladivostok 10 days by train s.frontier 3 n.shores 2 in south is bounded by mountains ramport of Afghanistan, Iran and Turky the East European plain or the Russian platform: 2/3 of this great area lie within the basin of the river Volaga which is the longest river in Europe, its source is less than 230 meter above sea. centers: Moscow and Ural station uses coal Lenningrad and gorkiy uses peat station in caucaus use oil leads the world in producing gas. power production puts the soviet union second to U.S Mir set in 1960's " unified power grid which serves comecon countries and to which theUSSR i sthe major contributor. by 1967 the eastern region the Urals Siberia fareast and soviet central asia were producing 51% of coal 34% of oil 37% of pif iron 40% of steel 40% of eledctric power. in short about 1/2 of the resource are in the eastward of Urals. these are old notes, there is an article in newsweek (recent) indicates that there is probably 200 billion barrels of oil in the folds of Caucaus. Shashni war is related to this treasure( he' i could not figure why Jeltsin was so furious but now i know) Movment: Siberia railway was completed in 1903, early 19Century siberia was virtually uninhibeted. rural population is densest along the famous blckearth belt stretching from the borders of Romania across the Unals into siberia. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:05:28 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: RBF's "opinions" about entropy (never say "WRONG"!) >....I have been able to compute the internal vector stars of the >A and B quanta modules with complete accuracy. I, for one, am impressed. I have never been able to do anything with complete accuracy. >This suggests a synergetic model of the electron that represents >increasing entropy, rather than the static notion of simple Allspace and >it's decreasing entropy. And this stands to reason since the 2nd law of >thermodynamics hasn't yet been repealed. Well, I guess this means that you have a model that fits in with "known" factors, such as entropy. Congrats - you may be the first person to take a Fullerism, and get CLOSER to the "currently accepted lies we tell ourselves", rather than further away than Bucky did. Ya gonna publish? The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:31:14 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: comming soon (Going Nowhere) to a location near you >Those who rail against corporations do so on computers created by >corporations.... The best thing I can say to BOTH sides of this spam-based pseudo-thread is to quote two songs. Generation-gap translation should not be required, as the two are equivalent statements. "There's a man with a gun over there, Tell'n us - we've got to beware, Everybody - stop, hey what's that sound? Everyone look what's goin' down..." (70s version) Mississippi Springfield? "Despite all you're rage, You're still just a rat in a cage..." (90s version) Smashing Pumpkins Major corporations are run by people who are just like us. Same faults, same needs, same goals. I used to be one of them, and the only way to win is not to play the game. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 03:39:13 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Helen Young Organization: Netcom Subject: Announcement GPS Web-based Discussion List In article , jas A Web-based discussion list for Global Positioning System (GPS) has been introduced on GeoWeb. Any questions/discussion related to GPS and its integrations with GIS , Remote Sensing, Mapping etc. can be posted to this list. One of the unique features of web-based discussion list on GeoWeb is that your question/response will appear on the list immediately after your submitting your requests. You don't have to wait several days, even a week (sometimes), until your request being posted on the net. User friendly interface and forms also have been designed to make this web conferencing system easier to use. The URL is http://www.ggrweb.com/gpsbbs.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:00:44 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: advantage of design hello, for people who have long experience of www can you say few things about getting differnet information without getting tired. I just had my first toure and went it like this - sciences - biology virology blood circulation- ebola- travel and viruses- energy solar -house 2000 geogrphy maps of europe hungry and russa then mathematics. just quick reading here and there. i am quite tired of it after one hour, may be becuse i am chosing the rong time( night and monday). thanks. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:39:10 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Philadelphia's Complete Internet Provider Subject: Computer Modeling of Apple Peeling [Philadelphia Study Group] John Kirk will be demonstrating some recent work on modeling an apple peeling with a computer. We will be meeting Thursday, November 9, from 5:30pm-7:30pm at Cyber Loft (http://www.cyberloft.com), 1525 Walnut ST, Second Floor, Philadelphia (215-564-4380). The Study Group will discuss a variety of topics, depending on the interests of the participants. Perhaps including some of the following subjects: * building and discussing 3d models * symmetry in spatial shapes * virtual computer models of geometric shapes * photo-realistic rendering of pictures of 3D computer models * bibliographic references to related published work * mathematical methods for describing geometric structures The Study Group is cost-free, except for the expense of modeling materials. -- Christopher J. Fearnley | UNIX SIG Leader at PACS cjf@netaxs.com (finger me!) | (Philadelphia Area Computer Society) cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us | Design Science Revolutionary http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf | Explorer in Universe "Dare to be Naive" -- Bucky Fuller | Linux Advocate ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:12:21 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: syn-l: Re: (none) Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: <9511061138.ZM16797@socrates.lauderdale.sgi.com>; from "Bill Gearhiser" at Nov 6, 95 11:38 am Bill Gearhiser writes: > > Since we're on this subject, I wonder if someone would correct a Fuller > quote for me. I had it on my office wall 20 years ago, but I've lost the > reference and can't precisely recall his wording. It went something like: > > It is ironic that the computer, in its very ability to process complex > mathematical formulae and [irrational numbers], is frustrating man's > natural desire to comprehend his [and my memory trails off here]. > > Thanks. > > -- > Bill Gearhiser Systems Engineer, Silicon Graphics Inc. > 100 West Cypress Creek Road, Suite 975, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33309 > Phone (305)938-8389 Email: gear@sgi.com Vmail: 5-8520 > Try _Synergetics 1_, sections 204.01 and 204.02 -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:14:07 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: maps This one to Kirby, see my great effort, i have send this request to >Hello: > Thank you for your interest in the Geographer's Craft Map Projection >Page. >>i am surprised though you have discription of creat circles as the >>shortest distance on the glob, you do not show Fuller icoshedron >>projection. since he is excluded from normal geographical >>books means that if you include him you will be different. Tagdi > I appreciate your suggestion. Perhaps I should include the Fuller >Dymaxion World. I disagree that he is excluded from normal geographical >books. The book I use in my course, Maps and Map Interpretation, is >Muehrcke's "Map Use" and it contains a description of Fuller's "projection." >The map has been around since the 1940s and is commonly described most books >that pretend to cover the field. It would be a good idea to add to my page a >few more "interesting" maps. > >Peter >Peter H. Dana - Department of Geography - University of Texas at Austin >Austin, Texas 78712-1098 - Tel: (512) 869-1450 - Fax: (512) 869-0899 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:29:06 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: syn-l: Re: (none) In Message Mon, 06 Nov 1995 18:12:21 -0800 (PST), Joe Moore writes: >Bill Gearhiser writes: >> >> Since we're on this subject, I wonder if someone would correct a Fuller >> quote for me. I had it on my office wall 20 years ago, but I've lost the >> reference and can't precisely recall his wording. It went something like: >> >> It is ironic that the computer, in its very ability to process complex >> mathematical formulae and [irrational numbers], is frustrating man's >> natural desire to comprehend his [and my memory trails off here]. >> >> Thanks. >> It is a paradox that the computer, in its very ability to process nonconceptual formulae and awkwardly irrational constants, has momentarily permitted the extedned use of obsolescent mathematical tools while simultaneously frustrating man's instinctive drive to comprehend his direct expericences. the computer has given man physical hardware that has altered his enviromental circumstance without his understanding how he arrived there. this has brought about a general disenchantment with technology. enchantment can only be sustained in those who have it, or regained by those who have lost it, through conceptual inspiration. nothing could be more exciting than the dawning awareness of the discovery of the presence of another of the elequently significant eternal reliabilities of universe. i will send the one befor this quotation. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:50:20 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: maps >>>i am surprised though you have discription of creat circles as the >>>shortest distance on the glob, you do not show Fuller icoshedron >>>projection. since he is excluded from normal geographical >>>books means that if you include him you will be different. >> I appreciate your suggestion. Perhaps I should include the Fuller >>Dymaxion World. I disagree that he is excluded from normal geographical >>books. The book I use in my course, Maps and Map Interpretation, is >>Muehrcke's "Map Use" and it contains a description of Fuller's "projection." >>The map has been around since the 1940s and is commonly described most books >>that pretend to cover the field. Funny thing, a book of mine named "The Map Catalog" (describes what each map is, and where to get it) Treats the Dymaxion Map as any other. "Drawing The Line" (A fairly recent publication) claims to be the story of "maps and controversy", but contains not a word about Bucky or the Dymaxion map! I have not gotten around to reading the book, but I did bother to check the index and Table Of Contents for any clues. Therefore, may we conclude: - That the Dymaxion map is just another map? - That it was and is NOT controversial? Question: Has anyone seen a Fuller Projection used for a map that is SMALLER than the entire earth? For example, a non-distorted map of a smaller area has real value too. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says "Natural processes increase entropy". Translation - "You think you're in trouble now? Just you wait..." james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:04:25 -0800 Reply-To: ud501@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Denis F. Blue" Subject: coming soon to a location near you The view expressed in Jay Hanson's missive "coming soon to a location near you" is now mainstream thinking. I'm sure a superficial scratch on Jay 's philosophical skin would uncover , as Kirby posits , a Malthusian "population explosion/ resource scarcity" paradigm, a paradigm that is also ascendant as the "common sense" view within the management bodies of the world. My semi-educated guess is that the great majority of "educated" people in the rich countries would subscribe to most of his diatribe. So it's really some of the readers of this list that could be described as "fringe" in their thinking on these issues. Although challenging Malthusian assumptions was central to Bucky's life, it hasn't been a central issue on the Lists discussing his work. This vacuum is regrettable as there is certainly no lack of activity on the other side of this debate. Economic systems , as Bucky frequently pointed out, are founded on the Malthusian scarcity model, while the environmental movement (Worldwatch, Sierra Club, etc. etc.) is basically Malthusian at its core. The popular media is also on-side: Scientific American can't seem to provide enough ink for the Homer-Dixon's and his ilk (this is particularly discouraging as SA's Gerard Piel has written a much more considered look at these issues: "Only One World"). The Atlantic Monthly, The Futurist (the newsletter of the World Futures Society and platform for the likes of Robert MacNamara) are all promoters of the Malthusian paradigm. Popular books (Kaplan) detailing these fears are bedside reading (with photocopies to everyone...) of a President and his Vice. And tragically, the UN bureaucracy is , of course, solidly behind it. So where does this leave us? Voiceless and irrelevant, apparently. I noticed that Joe Moore's latest RBF Virtual compendium (good work again Joe!) leaves the section on "Population" blank. Although I expect that this vacuum was inadvertent, I'm not aware of any forum on the Net to discuss and organize around challenging the Malthusian population/scarcity model. There is no lack of material to prime such a forum: Bucky, the aforementioned Chase ("The Legacy of Malthus: The History of Scientific Racism"), Betsy Hartmann ("Reproductive Rights and Wrongs" "The War on Population"), Fred Pearce, Constance Holden, Julian Simon, Roger Revelle, Jonas Salk and many others have developed challenges to the Malthusian paradigm. What can WE do? Denis -- ### ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:21:08 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: coming soon to a location near you Comments: To: ud501@freenet.victoria.bc.ca In-Reply-To: <199511071504.HAA11730@vifa1.freenet.victoria.bc.ca>; from "Denis F. Blue" at Nov 7, 95 7:04 am If anybody has any electronic references regarding "Population" (email and/or http://), I will gladly include them in the BFVI. Also newsgroups, etc. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:26:45 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: DOME MANUF GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore Revised Nov 7, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Allard Engineering OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1984 32-T Hollenbeck Ave ? Email: Great Barrington, MA 01260 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Jul 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Email: Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: American Ingenuity, Inc Verified: Oct 1995 3500 Harlock Road Mike & G. Busick Email: Melbourne, FL 32934 Tel: 407-254-4220 Fax: 407-254-9283 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Antennas for Communications, Inc Verified: Aug 1995 350 Cypress Road Ron Posner Email: rposner@ocala.com Ocala, FL 32672 Tel: 904-687-4121 Fax: 904-687-1203 Radomes Big Outdoors People, Inc, The OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1984 2201 N.E.Kennedy St. Dennis H. Kelly Email: Minneapolis, MN 55413 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Busch Industries, Inc Verified: ___ 1993 900 E. Paris Ave, S.E., Suite 304 ? Email: Grand Rapids, MI Tel: Fax: California Domes Verified: Jul 1994 P.O.Box 1047 Ralph Stevens Email: Middletown, CA 95461 Tel: 707-987-3511 Fax: Cascade Domes Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 1977 ? Email: Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Cathedralite Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 1105 Tate Miller Email: Medford, OR 97501 Tel: 503-772-3356 Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Central Coating Co. Verified: ___ 19?? 29009 Avenue 16 ? Email: Madera, CA 93637 Tel: Fax: Conservatek, Inc Verified: ___ 1984 P.O.Box 1678 ? Email: Conroe, TX 77305 Tel: 409-539-1747 Fax: Aluminum domes Corrugated Domes Name changed to Icosa Domes, Inc Verified: ___ 19?? 31 Vendola Drive ? Email: San Rafael, CA 94930 Tel: 415-472-1975 Fax: Daystar Shelter Corp. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 22509 Cedar Drive, NW ? Email: Bethel, MN 55006 Tel: 612-753-4981 Fax: DoMaine OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1977 P.O.Box 55 ? Email: Mount Desert, ME 04660 Tel: Fax: Dome Creations OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 211 East Maulding Michael L. Pronow Email: Las Vegas, NV 89119 Tel: 702-387-6311 Fax: Dome East Corp. SEE SPACE STRUCTURES INTERNATIONAL Verified: ___ 19?? 325 Duffy Ave. ? Email: Hicksville, NY 11801 Tel: 516-938-0545 Fax: Dome Enterprises, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 414 Simonton St Lyn Kephart Email: Key West, FL 33040 Tel: 305-294-8719 Fax: Dome Home Systems, Inc. Changed to Dome Kits Int'l Verified: Jul 1994 Lakeshore Road K. Parry Harding Email: Reedsburg, WI 53939 Tel: 608-524-4555 Fax: Dome Kits International Verified: Jul 1994 Lakeshore Road K. Parry Harding Email: Reedsburg, WI 53939 Tel: Fax: Dome Technology Co. Verified: Oct 1995 3007 E. 49th St ? Email: N. Idaho Falls, ID 83401 Tel: 208-529-0833 Fax: 208-529-0854 Concrete http://www.netib.com/manufacturing/dome/page1.html Domes America, Inc OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 6345 West Jolie Road T.Deery & R.Casey Email: Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: Domes and Homes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 365 ? Email: Brielle, NJ 08730 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood Skin Domes Diversified Verified: Jul 1989 4840 Comanche Trail Jonathan Beidelman Email: Prescott, AZ 86301 Tel: 602-445-1212 Fax: Domes, Inc Verified: ___ 1984 P.O.Drawer 5759 ? Email: Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Tel: 415-934-9121 Fax: Domes of Sonoma Verified: ___ 19?? 5212 Old Redwood Highway ? Email: Santa Rosa, CA 95401 Tel: Fax: Domespace Co. Verified: Oct 1995 510 East 80th St, Suite 5-B ? http://www.branch.com/dome/dome.html New York, NY 10021 Tel:212-517-7920 Fax: 212-861-9793 Wood DomEstic Designs Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 4203 ? Email: Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Dura Dome of Colorado, Inc OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1977 890 Laurel St. ? Email: Boulder, CO 80303 Tel: Fax: Plastic Dyna-Dome OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1977 22226 North 23rd Ave. ? Email: Phoenix, AZ 85207 Tel: Fax: Hub connector kits only Earthwhile Verified: Jul 1994 4209 Maxwell Road David Falasco Email: Colorado Springs, CO 80909 Tel: 719-596-5337 Fax: EMOD, Inc Verified: Jan 1993 209 Willow Ave, #4-E ? Email: Hoboken, NJ 07030 Tel: 201-792-6831 Fax: Plastic Fly's Eye playhouse Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Jul 1994 893 Wilson Avenue J. & Kevin Frawley Email: St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Envirotecture Verified: ___ 19?? 134 N. Ojai ? Email: Santa Paula, CA _____ Tel: Fax: Envisioneering Verified: Oct 1995 _____?________ Richard Lalonde E-Mail:envision@ottawa.net _________?___________ Tel: Fax: Triodetic components; domes, trusses, etc. http://www.ottawa.net/~envision/ Expo Domes International OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 575, 608 Hwy-110 N. Juergen Buche Email: Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 214-839-7228 Fax: Fiberdome Verified: ___ 1984 P.O.Box 11, 202 Sandy Beach Ave. ? Email: Lake Mills, WI 53551 Tel: 414-648-8376 Fax: Fiberglass Free Form Homes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 808 Tate Miller Email: Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-476-8299 Fax: Free Space Geodesics OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: Mar 1976 7094 N.Harrison, Suite 165 D. Wind & L. Lore Email: Pinedale, CA 93650 Tel: 209-431-8670 Fax: Geo-Built Tent Rentals Verified: Jul 1994 1420 Kiser Lake Road Charles E. Leet Email: St. Paris, OH 43072 Tel: 513-663-5017 Fax: Geodesic tents Geodesic Dome Homes Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 40206, Dept. 191 ? Email: Santa Barbara, CA 93103 Tel: Fax: Geodesic Domes and Homes (see Expo Domes Int'l) Verified: ___ 1994 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard Email: North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos L.McCarter Email: Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Prefab plywood kits (originally developed by Pease Woodwork Co.) Geodesic Services OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 6548 ? Email: Bellevue, WA 98007 Tel: Fax: Geodesic Shelters OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 487 ? Email: Calabasas, CA 91302 Tel: 714-962-4780 Fax: Fiberglass domes (see Scandia Enterprises, Inc) Geodesic Structures, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1977 P.O.Box 176 ? Email: Roosevelt, NJ 08555 Tel: 609-443-4440 Fax: Wood frame and plywood GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Jul 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Davies & Van Doren Email: Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Geoshelter Domes OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 1303 Talbott Circle Kenneth Yolman Email: Avon Park, FL 33825 Tel: Fax: Residential dome kits Growing Spaces, Inc. Verified: Oct 1995 P.O.Box 7052 Michael Rader E-Mail: michael@dnaco.net Aspen, CO 81611 Tel: 800-753-9333; 303-923-5713 Fax: Greenhouses http://www.dnaco.net/~michael/growing-spaces/growing-dome.html Hexadome of America, Inc. Verified: Jul 1994 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster Email: La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Jul 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Email: Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: Icosa Domes, Inc OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: Feb 1979 31 Vendola Drive Steve Elias Email: San Rafael, CA 94903 Tel: 415-479-2030 Fax: Corrugated paperboard domes J and D Solar Products Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 469 ? Email: Carver, MA 02330 Tel: Fax: Fiberglass greenhouses Key Dome Verified: Apr 1995 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Email: Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Jun 1995 P.O. Box 427980 E. Thorstein http://www.mmedia.is/kingdome Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Kyner Shelters Verified: Aug 1993 6404 Sunburst Lane, Box 381 ? Email: Cashmere, WA 98815 Tel: Fax: Portable dome shelters La Selva Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 105 La Selva Dr. ? Email: La Selva Beach, CA 95076 Tel: 408-688-5050 Fax: Dome shell kits Liberty Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 7270 Sundale Drive ? Email: Tujunga, CA 91042 Tel: Fax: Gazebos, lath houses Living Spaces, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 23 Humiston Brook Road Don Kowalski Email: Plantsville, CT 06479 Tel: 203-621-6361 Fax: Lundahl Scientific Verified: Oct 1995 ________?_________ ? E-Mail: que@srv.net Idaho Falls, ID 83401 Tel: Fax: http://snake.srv.net/~que/index.html MERO Structures, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 N112 W18810 Mequon Rd., P.O.Box 610 ? Email: Germantown, WI _____ Tel: Fax: M.L.D. Construction Verified: Jul 1994 P.O.Box 4173 ? Email: Sonora, CA 95370 Tel: 209-533-3663 Fax: Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Email: Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 214-483-7423; 800-608-0001 Fax: 214-483-6662 $20 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Monterey Domes SEE GEODOMES WOODWORKS Verified: Sep 1990 1760 Chicago Ave. Gunther & Robinson Email: Riverside, CA 92517 Tel: 800-321-2244 Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Tel: 800-336-4455 in Ca Mother Lode Dome Homes OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 874 ? Email: Twain Harte, CA 95383 Tel: Fax: Moulded Fiberglass Concrete Forms Co. (MFG) Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 675 ? Email: Ashtabula, OH 44004 Tel: Fax: Multi-Domes International OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 200 Warren Ave. ? Email: Fremont, CA 94538 Tel: 408-656-3672 Fax: Greenhouses Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Jul 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Email: Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Fax: Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Habitat Domes of Alaska OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 2249 Louis D. Harter Email: Palmer, AK 99645 Tel: 907-745-5464 Fax: Natural Spaces Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, D. & J. Johnson Email: North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ___ 1985 999 Harrison Court Klopp & Hamilton Email: Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Jul 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Lyn Boothe Email: Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pacific Dome Systems Verified: Jul 1994 9120 Pike Place, S.E. Chuck & Di Mayhew Email: Port Orchard, WA 98366 Tel: 206-876-4536 Fax: Parabam, Inc. Verified: ___ 19?? 3017 Las Hermanas ? Email: Los Angeles, CA _____ Tel: Fax: Pierce Structures Verified: ___ 1993 9144 Deering Ave, Dept. A Chatsworth, CA _____ Tel: Fax: Play Works OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 367 Nelson Van Juda Email: Menlo Park, CA 94025 Tel: 415-851-8757 Fax: Pond-Brook Products Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Email: Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Email: Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $35 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Redwood Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1980 _____________ ? Email: Aptos, CA 95003 Tel: Fax: Greenhouse kits Rigging International Verified: ___ 1984 P.O. Drawer 12066 Barry Sgarrella Email: Oakland, CA 94604 Tel: 415-465-9300 Fax: Bulk storage domes Scandia Enterprises, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 2135 Canyon Drive John C. Warren Email: Costa Mesa, CA 92627 Tel: 714-548-9333 Fax: Fiberglass greenhouses and temporary shelters (see Geodesic Shelters, Inc.) Schaeffer Domes Verified: Jul 1994 129 Lawrenceville Road James & Bernard Email: Rosendale, NY 12472 Tel: 914-658-8753 Fax: Semispheres Verified: ___ 1985 1505 Webster Street ? Email: Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: ugly looking! Shelter Systems Verified: Oct 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Email: Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Southern Domes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 18606 ? Email: Pensacola, FL 32523 Tel: 904-474-0084 Fax: Space Frames, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 1823 North 32nd Ave. ? Email: Stone Park, IL _____ Tel: Fax: Space Structures International OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1984 155-A Dupont St. ? Email: Plainview, NY 11803 Tel: 516-938-0545 Fax: Formerly Dome East Spitz Space Systems, Inc. Verified: ___ 1984 P.O.Box 198 ? Email: Chadds Ford, PA _____ Tel: Fax: Stardome See Shelter Systems Verified: ___ 1995 P.O.Box 880 Bob Gillis Email: Aptos, CA 95003 Tel: 408-728-2911 Fax: Greenhouses Starnet Structures, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 106 Bell Street ? Email: West Babylon, NY _____ Tel: Fax: Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ___ 1995 P.O. Box 400 Stromberg Email: Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $40 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Synapse Domes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 554 D.Scott Simms Email: Lander, WY 82520 Tel: 307-332-5733 Fax: Tel: 307-332-4117 System Resources Co., Inc. Verified: ___ 1984 30-T Manning Rd. ? Email: Billerica, MA 01821 Tel: 617-272-5772 Fax: Radomes Temcor Verified: ___ 1993 24724 S. Wilmington Ave. ? Email: Carson, CA _____ Tel: 213-320-0554 Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Tensegrity International, Inc. Verified: Dec 1987 151 N. Alvarado Ave. Gwilliam & Rus Chu Email: Ojai, CA 93023 Tel: 805-646-2421 Fax: 805-646-7498 Timberline Geodesics Verified: Jun 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Email: TLineDomes@aol.com Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Wood strut & plywood skin; Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Tobel Domes Verified: Jul 1994 15249 Golda Odessa Lane Tom Boyle Email: Lakeside, CA 92040 Tel: 619-443-6503 Fax: Topsider Homes Verified: ___ 1994 P.O. Box 848 ? Email: Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes Triodetic Building Products Ltd. Verified: ___ 19?? 2753 fenton Rd. ? Email: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA K1G3N3 Tel: 613-822-2922 Fax: Unistrut Spaceframe Systems, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 450 Geddes Road ? Email: Canton, MI _____ Tel: Fax: U.S.Domes, Inc. Verified: ___ 1981 830 Matsonford Rd. ? Email: West Conshohocken, PA 19428 Tel: 215-825-6181 Fax: U.S.Geodesics OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 900 Matsonford Road John M.Resheter Email: West Conshohocken, PA 19428 Tel: 215-825-6181 Fax: World Shelters OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 58 Serra Way Richard Stone Email: San Rafael, CA 94903 Tel: 415-492-0645 Fax: See Icosa Domes ? For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: ___ 1994 One Penn Plaza ? Email: New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Jul 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Email: Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: Merged with Nat'l Assn. of Home Builders National Dome Council Verified: ___19?? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Email: Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 Fax: - DOME (magazine) Verified: Jul 1994 4401 Zepher Stret Donald R. Hoflin Email: donh@hoflin.com Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:31:43 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: coming soon to a location near you It's not all that hopeless on the public policy front. Proving that little bits of beauty pop up in the strangest places, I remember my favorite quote from the Iran/Contra hearings. I don't recall the context except that it was in Secretary of State Schultz's opening statement , "We've stood Malthus on his head". While it is easy enough to list all the ongoing human crisis' in the world, I think we should realize that never before in the history of humanity have we been so aware of what happens around us, nor have we had the multi-lateral projection of force that is the United Nations to try to do something about it. Peace has not yet enveloped the planet, but our capacity to recognize evil, communicate the problem, and come together for the common good is lightyears beyond any good intentions of any dynasty in all of history. That's fact. We are moving in the right direction and at ever-increasing speed. Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:57:36 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: coming soon to a location near you In-Reply-To: ; from "Steven L Combs" at Nov 7, 95 4:31 pm Steven L Combs writes: > > It's not all that hopeless on the public policy front. Proving that > little bits of beauty pop up in the strangest places, I remember my > favorite quote from the Iran/Contra hearings. I don't recall the context > except that it was in Secretary of State Schultz's opening statement , > "We've stood Malthus on his head". > While it is easy enough to list all the ongoing human crisis' in the > world, I think we should realize that never before in the history of > humanity have we been so aware of what happens around us, nor have we had > the multi-lateral projection of force that is the United Nations to try > to do something about it. Peace has not yet enveloped the planet, but our > capacity to recognize evil, communicate the problem, and come together > for the common good is lightyears beyond any good intentions of any > dynasty in all of history. That's fact. We are moving in the right > direction and at ever-increasing speed. > Sincerely, > Steven Combs > Syncorswim, Inc. > .- > I agree. At least the alternatives that Bucky developed gives us hope, if we choose to pursue them. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:16:04 -0800 Reply-To: lhunt@ednet1.osl.or.gov Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Larry Hunt Subject: Volume of a Tetrahedron? We just moved and I don't have my books with me. My 6th grade daughter can get 10 extra credit points for coming up with the volume of a tetrahedorn--by Wednesday morning. She is encouraged to get help wherever possible. Can you help? Thanks, Larry Hunt -- HUMBOLT ELEM. SCHOOL lhunt@ednet1.osl.or.gov P.O. Box 545, John Day, Oregon, 97845 (503) 575-0454 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:04:01 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Volume of a Tetrahedron? The volume is 1 if the edge length is 2.03965... That's 2(3^2 / 2^3)^1/6 which is hard to write on computer so I digitized it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:13:17 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: syn-l: wave and a question Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: <64452.tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl>; from "tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl" at Nov 8, 95 5:53 pm tagdi@ruulch.let.ruu.nl writes: > "snip" > > does any one know what geometrical shape is ice, and is it the same > as icecream, and how about sugure and salt. this going to be > shown in children musiume library. > See _A Guide to Field Identification: Rocks and Minerals_ by Charles A.Sorrell (1973). Has color illustrations of the molecular structure of all minerals. Very good! Any good book on Mineralogy should do. > i think we need some examples from chimstry which relate to > fuller geometry. Just like when you introduce an abstract subject you must > have a few examples from real life. > M.Tagdi > > .- > See Linus Pauling's books on Chemistry. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:06:55 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? In Message Wed, 08 Nov 1995 12:04:01 +0000 (GMT), Steven L Combs writes: > The volume is 1 if the edge length is 2.03965... >That's 2(3^2 / 2^3)^1/6 which is hard to write on computer so I >digitized it. i think the formula is 1/3 Bh where B is the base and h is the hight but that is for pyramid is it the same for tetra. we just had this quesion 3 or 4 days ago. this the convensional way of finding volume. M.Tagdi p.s i am not sure if it is 1/2 Bh or 1/3 Bh. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:54:27 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ron Posner end." Subject: Re: DOME MANUF: Announces Antennas for Communications (AFC) Home Page at http://www.ocala.com/afc/ In-Reply-To: <9511071026.aa00358@inside.cruzio.com> On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Joe Moore wrote: > GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS > > by Joe S. Moore Revised Nov 7, 1995 > >Antennas for Communications, Inc Verified: Aug 1995 >350 Cypress Road Ron Posner Email: rposner@ocala.com >Ocala, FL 32672 Tel: 904-687-4121 Fax: 904-687-1203 >Radomes Dear All: This message announces Antennas for Communications (AFC) home page at http://www.ocala.com/afc/. AFC manufactures, markets and sells worldwide satellite dish antennas, conical horn antennas, radomes, antenna feeds, microwave and waveguide components, ultra low loss waveguide transmission line TallGuide, and shelters. A radome is a peculiar type of geodesic weather protection dome that also has the unusual properties of electromagnetic transparency to certain radio frequencies. The home page has extensive links and pictures of AFC's radome technology. For your music enjoyment while you browse, check out the Boss's Corner. Regards, Ron Posner rposner@ocala.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:58:28 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ron Posner end." Organization: InterServ News Service Subject: Announcement Antennas for Communications (AFC) Home Page at http://www.ocala.com/afc/ On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Joe Moore wrote: > GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS > > > by Joe S. Moore Revised Nov 7, 1995 > >Antennas for Communications, Inc Verified: Aug 1995 >350 Cypress Road Ron Posner Email: rposner@ocala.com >Ocala, FL 32672 Tel: 904-687-4121 Fax: 904-687-1203 >Radomes Dear All: This message announces Antennas for Communications (AFC) home page at http://www.ocala.com/afc/. AFC manufactures, markets and sells worldwide satellite dish antennas, conical horn antennas, radomes, antenna feeds, microwave and waveguide components, ultra low loss waveguide transmission line TallGuide, and shelters. A radome is a peculiar type of geodesic weather protection dome that also has the unusual properties of electromagnetic transparency to certain radio frequencies. The home page has extensive links and pictures of AFC's radome technology. For your music enjoyment while you browse, check out the Boss's Corner. Regards, Ron Posner rposner@ocala.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:23:54 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Christopher Rywalt Organization: WestNet Internet Services Subject: Re: Ques. re "Triacon" derivation WLauritzen wrote: > Does anyone know what the word > "triacon" derives from? Is it just the > obvious "three together"? ``Triacon,'' according to several sources including good old Hugh Kenner's _Geodesic Math_, is short for ``tricontahedron,'' which is the polyhedron upon which the triacon breakdown is based. Any roleplaying games enthusiast who has stumbled upon the interesting but useless thirty-sided die has seen a tricontahedron: it's got thirty rhombic faces. For an idea of a triacon breakdown, just look at Epcot's ``Spaceship Earth.'' Conveniently, there's a photo and a traced breakdown you can find from my homepage, http://www.westnet.com/~crywalt/ Chris. crywalt@westnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:58:18 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: MODEL-BUILDING KITS MODEL-BUILDING KITS RELATED TO THE WORK OF R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER by Joe S. Moore Nov. 9, 1995 A.G.S. Products Verified: Apr 1994 2111 SW 31st Ave. ? Email: Pembroke Park, FL 33009 Tel: Fax: "1 2 3 4 Sphere Kit", "C60 Model" Arlington-Hews, Inc. Verified: Apr 1993 P.O. Box 23798 ? Email: Richmond, BC, CANADA, ______ Tel: Fax: "Googolplex"; $50; Vancouver Airport Avionics Plastics Verified: ___ 1985 25 Central Ave. ? Email: Farmingdale, NY 11735 Tel: Fax: "Dome Kit 1"; 39" diam Biocrystal, Inc. Verified: Apr 1993 P.O. Box 7053 Mark Pelletier Email: Boulder, CO, 80302 Tel: Fax: "Zometool"; $650 Buckminster Fuller Institute Verified: Nov 1995 2040 Alameda Padre Serra, Suite 224 R.B.Fuller Email: BFI@AOL.COM Santa Barbara, CA 93103 Tel: 805-962-0022 Fax: 805-962-4440 "Geodesic Sphere and Dome Kit"; 3' diam; 60 cardboard units Constructions Lab Verified: Jun 1995 P.O.Box 62 Einer Thorsteinn Email: kingdome@mmedia.is IS-121 Reykjavik, ICELAND Tel: 3545-623853 Fax: Synergetics "Magic Ball" Coupler Models Design Science Toys Verified: Nov 1995 1362 Route 9 Stuart Quimby Email: stuq@mhv.net Tivoli, NY 12583 Tel: 914-756-4221; 800-227-2316 Fax: 914-756-4223 30 models re: Domes and Synergetics Domes 'N' Things Verified: ___ 1985 4510 Fairview Ave. ? Email: Downers Grove, IL 60515 Tel: Fax: "Geodesic Dome-Home Model"; 20" diam; tri-level interior Entex Industries, Inc. Verified: ___ 1985 _____________________ ? Email: Compton, CA 90220 Tel: Fax: "TryAngles" and other Geomi-Trix toys Gaby Games Verified: Jan 1986 P.O.Box 9037 ? Email: Jerusalem, ISRAEL 91090 Tel: Fax: Various 3D Wooden Geometric puzzles; $8-$48 Geodesics of California Verified: ___ 1985 11240 Ilex Avenue ? Email: Pacoima, CA 91331 Tel: Fax: Hanging dome plant holders; 14", 17", 24" Geodestix Verified: ___ 1990 P.O.Box 11308 ? Email: Spokane, WA 99211 Tel: Fax: "D-Stix" kits; U.S.Patent #3,148,539 Ikoso-Kits Verified: Aug 1977 28667 Spencer Creek Road ? Email: Eugene, OR, 97405 Tel: - - Fax: - - Various "Ikoso-Kits"; U.S.Patent #3,805,441 Integrity Designs, Inc. Verified: Dec 1990 ______________________ Daniel Radin Email: Greenville, NH 03048 Tel: Fax: "Fantastix" tensegrity model; $20 MondoTronics Verified: Aug 1994 524 San Anselmo Ave., #107 Roger G.Gilbertson Email: mondo@mondo.com San Anselmo, CA 94960 Tel: 415-455-9330 Fax: "BuckyBall Kit"; $10; Available from BFI Symmetrics, Inc. Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 26791 ? Email: Philadelphia, PA 19117 Tel: Fax: 15 geometry model kits; $7 Tensegrity Systems Co. Verified: Dec 1990 Station Hill Road ? Email: Barrytown, NY, 12507 Tel: 800-227-2316 Fax: "Tensegritoy"; $30.00 Transtronics, Inc. Verified: Nov 1994 3209 W.9th Street Karl Schmidt Email: kschmidt@databank.com Lawrence, KS 66049 Tel: 800-966-1659; 913-841-3089 Fax: 913-841-0434 Electronic "Glitter Globes"; $65 Whole Works, The Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Sphere 14802 ? Email: San Francisco, CA 94114 Tel: Fax: Geodesic Sculpture Kits; $4 -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:07:15 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: GEODOME Any questions regarding the "Geodome" picture should be referred to Andy Wardley at abw@oasis.icl.co.uk. It seems to be in the public domain, but I'm not sure. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:10:26 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: R.ORENSTEIN FYI, Robert Orenstein's web page is at http://www.anamorph.com/docs/meta/bio.html He used to volunteer at the BFI. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:56:32 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Packrat Organization: NZNET * New Zealand Internet Services * Subject: Re: Computer Modeling of Apple Peeling [Philadelphia Study Group] In article <47lrpe$6b8@netaxs.com>, cjf@netaxs.comp says... > > >John Kirk will be demonstrating some recent work on >modeling an apple peeling with a computer. > >The Study Group is cost-free, except for the expense of modeling >materials. > Will lunch be provided? :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:25:02 -800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: username Subject: Geodesics Helo, My name is Marco Tognon. I live in Belgium and strongly interested in the geodesic dome structure. I try to find mathematical information and the way how to make patterns of different sorts of domes. For example: Sperical in different frequencies, eliptical, zafus, eggs and so on. Can I get some help from your discussion group? I appreciate it very much if your group can be an address to bookshops, manufacturers and so on. Thank you very much. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:49:12 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: maps tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: >This one to Kirby, >see my great effort, i have send this request to your sentence stops in the middle. >>Hello: >> Thank you for your interest in the Geographer's Craft Map Projection >>Page. Is that a web page Tagdi? I didn't think you were webified. No mention of an URL, or I'd follow up. Nevertheless, on any globe, great circles are indeed the shortest distance, and that goes for Bucky's globe too. >> I appreciate your suggestion. Perhaps I should include the Fuller >>Dymaxion World. I disagree that he is excluded from normal geographical >>books. The book I use in my course, Maps and Map Interpretation, is >>Muehrcke's "Map Use" and it contains a description of Fuller's "projection." Why he puts 'projection' in quotes I have no idea. >>The map has been around since the 1940s and is commonly described most books >>that pretend to cover the field. It would be a good idea to add to my page a >>few more "interesting" maps. It did change significantly: was first published as an unfolded cuboctahedron, later became the familiar icosahedron. Robert Gray has shown this projection is not the gnomonic, and indeed has less distortion than the former. >>Peter >>Peter H. Dana - Department of Geography - University of Texas at Austin >>Austin, Texas 78712-1098 - Tel: (512) 869-1450 - Fax: (512) 869-0899 But no email address. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:42:01 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: >In Message Wed, 08 Nov 1995 12:04:01 +0000 (GMT), > Steven L Combs writes: > >> The volume is 1 if the edge length is 2.03965... >>That's 2(3^2 / 2^3)^1/6 which is hard to write on computer so I >>digitized it. > > i think the formula is 1/3 Bh where B is the base and h is the hight > but that is for pyramid is it the same for tetra. > we just had this quesion 3 or 4 days ago. this the convensional > way of finding volume. > M.Tagdi > p.s i am not sure if it is 1/2 Bh or 1/3 Bh. A pyramid (square base) would clearly be different from the tetra. In any case, it is a matter of definition whether we depict 1x1 as a square or triangle, 1x1x1 as a cube or tetrahedron. In geodesic math, 1^3 is the volume of a regular tetrahedron, by definition, not by formula. And it is true that a tetrahedron inscribed within a parallelepiped along its face diagonals will have 1/3rd the volume of its containment (goes for irregular and regular alike). Which is why the cube has a volume of 3 according to our definitions. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:18:43 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: MODEL KITS (UPDATE) MODEL-BUILDING KITS RELATED TO THE WORK OF R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER by Joe S. Moore Nov. 11, 1995 A.G.S. Products Verified: Apr 1994 2111 SW 31st Ave. ? Email: Pembroke Park, FL 33009 Tel: Fax: "1 2 3 4 Sphere Kit"; "C60 Model" Allied Toy Company Verified: Nov 1995 307 East 63rd Street ? Email: Kansas City, MO 64113 Tel: Fax: "Bounce-Bak"; $9; Tensegrity icosa toy Arlington-Hews, Inc. Verified: Apr 1993 P.O. Box 23798 ? Email: Richmond, BC, CANADA, ______ Tel: Fax: "Googolplex"; $50; Vancouver Airport Avionics Plastics Verified: ___ 1985 25 Central Ave. ? Email: Farmingdale, NY 11735 Tel: Fax: "Dome Kit 1"; 39" diam Binary Arts Corporation Verified: Nov 1995 5601 Vine Street ? Email: http://www.puzzles.com/ Alexandria, VA 22310 Tel: Fax: "Geomorph 12"; $10 Biocrystal, Inc. Verified: Apr 1993 P.O. Box 7053 M.Pelletier http://mathart.com/ZomeTool/ZomeTool_home.html Boulder, CO, 80302 Tel: Fax: "Zometool"; $35-$650 Buckminster Fuller Institute Verified: Nov 1995 2040 Alameda Padre Serra, Suite 224 R.B.Fuller Email: BFI@AOL.COM Santa Barbara, CA 93103 Tel: 805-962-0022 Fax: 805-962-4440 "Geodesic Sphere and Dome Kit"; 3' diam; 60 cardboard units Canny Kits Verified: Nov 1995 394 New York Ave. ? Email: Huntington, NY 11743 Tel: Fax: "Geodome" kit; $8.50; (Division of Copernicus Co.) Constructions Lab Verified: Jun 1995 P.O.Box 62 Einer Thorsteinn Email: kingdome@mmedia.is IS-121 Reykjavik, ICELAND Tel: 3545-623853 Fax: Synergetics "Magic Ball" Coupler Models DaMert Company Verified: Nov 1995 2476 Verna Court ? Email: San Leandro, CA 94577 Tel: Fax: "Vector Flexor" VE; "Space Ball" dome, $10 Design Science Toys Verified: Nov 1995 1362 Route 9 Stuart Quimby Email: stuq@mhv.net Tivoli, NY 12583 Tel: 914-756-4221; 800-227-2316 Fax: 914-756-4223 30 models re: Domes and Synergetics Domes 'N' Things Verified: ___ 1985 4510 Fairview Ave. ? Email: Downers Grove, IL 60515 Tel: Fax: "Geodesic Dome-Home Model"; 20" diam; tri-level interior Entex Industries, Inc. Verified: ___ 1985 _____________________ ? Email: Compton, CA 90220 Tel: Fax: "TryAngles" and other Geomi-Trix toys Frali Swise Verified: Nov 1995 Case Postale 362 ? Email: CH 1920 Martigny, SWITZERLAND Tel: 026-22-84-85 Fax: "Icosa Puzzel" Gaby Games Verified: Jan 1986 P.O.Box 9037 ? Email: Jerusalem, ISRAEL 91090 Tel: Fax: Various 3D Wooden Geometric puzzles; $8-$48 Geodesics of California Verified: ___ 1985 11240 Ilex Avenue ? Email: Pacoima, CA 91331 Tel: Fax: Hanging dome plant holders; 14", 17", 24" Geodestix Verified: ___ 1990 P.O.Box 11308 ? Email: Spokane, WA 99211 Tel: Fax: "D-Stix" kits; U.S.Patent #3,148,539 Ikoso-Kits Verified: Aug 1977 28667 Spencer Creek Road ? Email: Eugene, OR, 97405 Tel: - - Fax: - - Various "Ikoso-Kits"; U.S.Patent #3,805,441 Integrity Designs, Inc. Verified: Dec 1990 ______________________ Daniel Radin Email: Greenville, NH 03048 Tel: Fax: "Fantastix" tensegrity model; $20 MondoTronics Verified: Aug 1994 524 San Anselmo Ave., #107 Roger G.Gilbertson Email: mondo@mondo.com San Anselmo, CA 94960 Tel: 415-455-9330 Fax: "BuckyBall Kit"; $10; Available from BFI Oliphant Research Verified: Nov 1995 _________________ ? Email: Salt Lake City, UT 84110 Tel: Fax: "Star Structure", $30 Orb Factory, Ltd, The Verified: Nov 1995 5 Umlah's Road ? Email: Halifax, NS, CANADA B3P2G6 Tel: 902-477-9570 Fax: "The Original Orb", $12; "Flexstar" series; see Design Science Toys catalog Pappa Geppotto's Toys Victoria Ltd. Verified: Nov 1995 P.O.Box 98 ? Email: Victoria, BC, CANADA V8W2M4 Tel: Fax: "Tensegrity Icosa Toy", $16.50 Polyhedron International, Ltd. Verified: Nov 1995 11 Scotia Close, Brackmills Indus. Estate Email: Northampton, ENGLAND NN47HR Tel: 01604-769144 Fax: 01604-701674 "Polydron", $11-$25 Symmetrics, Inc. Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 26791 ? Email: Philadelphia, PA 19117 Tel: Fax: 15 geometry model kits; $7 Tangent Toy Company Verified: Nov 1995 ___________________ ? Email: Sausalito, CA 94965 Tel: Fax: "Boing Boing" VE Jitterbug, $12 Tensegrity Systems Co. Verified: Dec 1990 Station Hill Road ? Email: Barrytown, NY, 12507 Tel: 800-227-2316 Fax: "Tensegritoy"; $30.00 Transtronics, Inc. Verified: Nov 1994 3209 W.9th Street Karl Schmidt Email: kschmidt@databank.com Lawrence, KS 66049 Tel: 800-966-1659; 913-841-3089 Fax: 913-841-0434 Electronic "Glitter Globes"; $65 Whole Works, The Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Sphere 14802 ? Email: San Francisco, CA 94114 Tel: Fax: Geodesic Sculpture Kits; $4; (Foldable circles) -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:24:18 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? Finally found my old volume chart. Of course the volume of a tetrahedron is 1 when edge is 2s', as I posted previously. But the formula that I have from years past for any edge length is: Tetrahedron (edge)^3 x .1178507 = volume This gives a volume of 1 when edge = 2s', and volume of 1/8th when edge = s'. Other shapes on this old list (I think it's right): Octahedron (edge)^3 x .471403 = volume Vector Equilibrium (edge)^3 x 2.35701 = volume Icosahedron (edge)^3 x 2.18197 = volume Rhombic Dodecahedron (long diag. face)^3 x .7071046 = volume Rhombic Triacontahedron (2 x radius to rhombic face center)^3 x .590168 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 15:01:08 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? In Message Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:24:18 +0000 (GMT), Steven L Combs writes: > Finally found my old volume chart. Of course the volume of a >tetrahedron is 1 when edge is 2s', as I posted previously. But the >formula that I have from years past for any edge length is: >Tetrahedron (edge)^3 x .1178507 = volume > This gives a volume of 1 when edge = 2s', and volume of 1/8th when >edge = s'. Other shapes on this old list (I think it's right): >Octahedron (edge)^3 x .471403 = volume >Vector Equilibrium (edge)^3 x 2.35701 = volume >Icosahedron (edge)^3 x 2.18197 = volume >Rhombic Dodecahedron (long diag. face)^3 x .7071046 = volume >Rhombic Triacontahedron (2 x radius to rhombic face center)^3 x .590168 i think you are useing the synergetic constants to bring back the irrational volume based on the cube to tetra accounting. but the questioner is really asking for the conventional formula of finding the tetra volume since if his son gets it right he get some points from his normal math teacher. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 22:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Kalenak Organization: The Pipeline Subject: dome for sell, trade or donation i found this in alt.alternative.architecture. >I can't help thinking this would make a wonderful architectural element. It's >white, and yes almost 30-feet in diameter, and painted on the inside with >reflective white since it was used as a VR theatre. We have to get rid of it >from LA. Whoever gets it must disassemble and remove it in a week or two. >This can be done with hand tools, and the parts are easily portable. We're >looking to donate, trade, or sell. > >Nick Gessler >gessler@ucla.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:19:27 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: maps >Is that a web page Tagdi? I didn't think you were webified. >No mention of an URL, or I'd follow up. Nevertheless, on any >globe, great circles are indeed the shortest distance, and >that goes for Bucky's globe too. it sounds like mumified, well may be since now days almost everyone is frozen in newtonian wep. http://www.utexas.edu/depts/grg/graft/notes/gps.html he is also listed in James Fischer book marks, try it if there is any problem i will look again. i send him James reply but i did not get any answer. this wep traffic is strange. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:29:59 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Intuition can anyone say somthing about intution? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:26:40 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Timm Hassert Organization: Goethe-Institut Subject: Looking for "Dome Book 2" In 1975 I built 3 geodesic domes in Canada (264, 204, 204). They are still up and somebody lives in it permanently. I used as reference "Dome Book 2". Unfortunately I lost this useful book. Does anybody know if and where this book can be found? Thanks for your help. Timm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:25:01 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Organization: Online Internet Services Corporation Subject: Re: Intuition >tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL asks: can anyone say somthing about intution? Article - Portrait of a Prophet by Deidre Sullivan - A scientist reveals the secrets of the super conscious mind - About Bill Kautz, founder of the Center for Applied Intuition Book - Channelling: The Intuitive Connection -Kautz and Branon Video - The Role of Intuition in Decision Making Book - Intuition in Decision Making - How to Assess, Use and Develop Your Intuitive Powers for Increased Productivity Book - Intuition in Organizations - Leading and Managing Productively Contact: Dr. Weston H. Algor, Director The Global Intuition Network University of Texas at El Paso, P.O. Box 614 El Paso, Tx. 79968-0614 Fax 915-747-5111 Also: Institute for Noetic Sciences 475 Gate Five Road, Suite P.O. Box 909 Sausalito, California 94966-9922 415-331-5650 Also: Center for Applied Intuition Fairfax, CA 707-928-4600 415-453-2130 -- ______________________________________________________________________________ Ken G. Brown email: kbrown@maugham.atc.edmonton.ab.ca SYNGEN Industrial Control phone: 403/986-1203 206 Bldg B, 5904 - 50 Street fax: 403/986-5299 Leduc, Alberta, CANADA T9E 6J3 ______________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:20:00 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Looking for "Dome Book 2" In-Reply-To: <487o3g$hrd@euler.space.net>; from "Timm Hassert" at Nov 13, 95 3:26 pm Your best bet is through your local inter-library loan service. It went out of print years ago. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:52:14 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Composition, movment,assets,information, structure i use stacking writting technique becuse of earlier problem of approach. 97% of atmospher lie within 18 miles. outer limit of atmospher is 6000 miles. out to 50 miles the chemical composition is highly uniform. composition(content): 78% nitrogen 20% Oxygen .934% orgen .033% carbon dioxide. OOZONE LAYERS 24 MILES THE SECOND LAYER 12.(I might be rong) out 15-12 km clear air no cloudes. weight of hydrogen atom 1.66x10** -27 ( to power of minus 27 kg) diameter 1x10 to minus 10 meter platonium(94) 3.9x10 to minus 25 kg. diameter 6x10 to power minus 10 of a meter. mass of any atom is kg= atomic weight x 1.66x10 to minus 27 kg. hilum neon krypton atoms prefer to exist alone. the speed of electron in an inner orbit is 1/137 speed of light. the second orbit 1/2 as great. the third orbit 1/3 as great. in television it is standard practice to scan transmit 30 distinct and seprate pictures in one second. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MN sales and profit for one year:1978 in period immidiatly after the war total of all mineral exported was 20 billion $. oil and gas dominated by 7 gaints international companies 5 are americans 2 from the u.k. folowed by second group of about 20 mostly from the U.S. In the US the 5 big are all among the top 10 largest and had combined sales of 1978 billion$ with annual profit of 7 billion $. of the 52 next largest U.S industrial corp 14 were in oil total sales 110billion$ with profit of 6 billion$. putside the U.S the 3 largest industrial corp are oil companies of the 2 europen Royal dutch / shell was in the top with sales of 44 billion and 2 billion profit, while british petrolume sales was 27billion$ with 1 billion $ profit. in minerals combined sales of those 24 larges U.SCanadian co, with sales of over 100 million $, were about 30 billion. these large numbers are for the year 1978, to track the MN one needs 10 year view to see how they behaving, with other critical data. we have to use reverse stratage of sevallence. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ some old propagand methods of USIA: woman youth and labour are the most important target. it is important to keep the middle classes and ordinary workers friendly. a technic learned from advertisment - attempt saturation that will reach right into every village. any given area divided into 5% operators ,10% stooges and 85% slobs. a million intelectual with subtle propagand better than 100 million nonintelectual. if the people of a country are subserivant only goverment officials should be targeted. the real leader may be a barber,cobbler or elegent pesent, a priest or a doctor. in the near and far east films are the principle mass media. libraries(USA information centers) around the world heavly staffed by professional librarian who think in terms of service. USA operators often see their audiance (soviet) as people who are politically unconvinced. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Cities structure and movment: 25% of total area of the average city is occupied by commercial zonning where as the area actually used is 3% of total . big factor is overzonning along the traffic arteries. there are 4 to 5 times as many stores in business as the need demands. 44% of total commercial area is in the central business district. health of the city depend on the balance between open and closed space. popularity of autos may be explained in large part by the extended freedom of movment they offer to the driver(american dream). a typical traffic street with usual intersecting streets will accomodate 700 -800 private passanger autombilies per/h, 180 bus, and 150 street cars( i think that is the rate of bussy street). bus carry 40 person seated. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 13:15:58 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Composition, movment,assets,information, structure >oil and gas dominated by 7 gaints international companies 5 are >americans 2 from the u.k. >folowed by second group of about 20 mostly from the U.S. >In the US the 5 big are all among the top 10 largest and had combined sales >of 1978 billion$ with annual profit of 7 billion $. sorry the amount of sale 165 billion $ for the year 1978. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 13:18:48 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Buckminester Pattrens >requirments for Fuller pattrens: >the information content most be very significant >large and effects the whole, in science pattrens must be critical >to epistmology. > > examples: > Pollution in L.A > The Gulf state entrance to banking. > oil tankers profit due to 8 fold increase of volume in relation > to doubling the lenght. > T.v bombardment with speed of light(toatal brain wash) > 2% work force in agriculture from 100 > ford assymbly line > 1960 mass student demonstrations. > art and science coordination > movment pattren > feed back critical path APPOLO. > invisible spectrum inclusion to reality. > etc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 14:36:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? There seems to be some confusion here about what Kirby refers to as "geodesic math". There is only one kind of math. Fuller resolves the volume problem in two ways. One is to use the Dymaxion Vector Constant as a synergetic correction factor. The other is to speak of tetravolumes rather numeric volume. A tetrahedron of edge=2s' has a volume of 1. A tetrahedron of edge=1 can be refered to as 1 tetravolume. But it is incorrect to say that a tetrahedron of edge=1 has a volume of 1, it doesn't. No offense intended or implied, but we must be careful with our terms lest we be misunderstood or appear simply wrong. Just as it does no good to speak of "two triangled" instead of "two squared". Better to say "two to the second power" and avoid both confusion and inaccuracy. As for the cube: with it's face diagonal=2s' the cube has volume of 3. A cube of any size has the volume of (3 x tetravolume of the inscribed tetrahedrons that can be used to define its corners). A cube with edge=2s' has volume = 8.49 which appears to have a relationship with an icosahedron of edge=2s' and volume = 18.51 . Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:02:06 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Andersson and Winter I am curious to know if any of our list readers are familiar with the work of Tell Andersson in Sweden. When I first visited the old BFI office in L.A., Bonnie Goldstein ( who did more to put me in touch with helpful folks that anyone or anything before God gave us the 'net) gave me a copy of Tell's book Quanta Modules & Physics. I almost lost my lunch because Tell seemed to be doing exactly what I was doing but in a completely different way. I have since found a way to combine our approaches for a better product - the Synergetic Atomic Model. Tell has not adopted this synthesis but continues to produce manuscripts that show how molecule nuclei can be modeled with assembleges of A & B Quanta. I haven't heard from him in a while and don't think he's on the net yet. Is anyone else familiar with his work or in touch with Tell Andersson? Also curious about list readers contact with Dan Winter. I just got a brochure from Dan detailing a new conference center in Waynesville,NC that is located by a Bucky BioDome (what's a BioDome?) and which will be Dan's new headquarters for his truly amazing work with toroidal energy flows. At the risk of digression - watching a dolphin documentary with Robin Williams as host last night; There was a fellow who had spent ten years getting to know a particular wild dolphin. At one point while swimming together, he lay down on the ocean floor and started blowing "air rings" apparently because of the water pressure, the rings became perfectly symmetrical as they rose. The dolphin was fascinated by this, as was I, I don't think either of us had seen it before. Anyhow - I thought of Dan and his toroidal donuts. Dan Winter's book Sacred Geometry: The Alphabet Of The Heart has some very interesting ideas in it. To be fair, there are a few pretty loopy ideas too, but overall, I think he's got some points to be considered. Anyone else familiar with his work? Anyone been to this BioDome in North Carolina? Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 21:36:10 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: pshycology and learning I like to bring many questions though i know that they are not important to others but somtimes they might intrest someone. so i am taking the risk. how is a person psychology relate to generalist (wide scope) learning? if we know how the two relate we might be able to go about it in nice way. for me the information became so important that i am pushed into nets of different unrelated ideas and not knowing how to take this information on a personal bases. i am just discussing in general not trying to bring a drama to it. i also like to link this subject to creativity if it is possible every one has different experience which they might like to share there might be resistance to do so. in the other hand we might all benefit from each other mistakes, curiosities, special fasination , special focous, higher learning curiosity, and easy leasure of learning. i would like to end this by saying that i noted that children in learning moments talk, answer very shortly which might relate to subtle economy. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:27:29 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Andersson and Winter In-Reply-To: ; from "Steven L Combs" at Nov 14, 95 3:02 pm Steven L Combs writes: > > I am curious to know if any of our list readers are familiar with > the work of Tell Andersson in Sweden. When I first visited the old BFI > office in L.A., Bonnie Goldstein ( who did more to put me in touch with > helpful folks that anyone or anything before God gave us the 'net) gave > me a copy of Tell's book Quanta Modules & Physics. I almost lost my Could you post some references to Andersson's work? > lunch because Tell seemed to be doing exactly what I was doing but in a > completely different way. I have since found a way to combine our > approaches for a better product - the Synergetic Atomic Model. Tell has Could you post some info about your work? Refs, short paper, etc. > not adopted this synthesis but continues to produce manuscripts that show > how molecule nuclei can be modeled with assembleges of A & B Quanta. I > haven't heard from him in a while and don't think he's on the net yet. > Is anyone else familiar with his work or in touch with Tell Andersson? > Also curious about list readers contact with Dan Winter. I just got > a brochure from Dan detailing a new conference center in Waynesville,NC > that is located by a Bucky BioDome (what's a BioDome?) and which will be > Dan's new headquarters for his truly amazing work with toroidal energy flows. > At the risk of digression - watching a dolphin documentary with Robin > Williams as host last night; There was a fellow who had spent ten years > getting to know a particular wild dolphin. At one point while swimming > together, he lay down on the ocean floor and started blowing "air rings" > apparently because of the water pressure, the rings became perfectly > symmetrical as they rose. The dolphin was fascinated by this, as was I, > I don't think either of us had seen it before. Anyhow - I thought of Dan > and his toroidal donuts. > Dan Winter's book Sacred Geometry: The Alphabet Of The Heart has > some very interesting ideas in it. To be fair, there are a few pretty > loopy ideas too, but overall, I think he's got some points to be > considered. Anyone else familiar with his work? Anyone been to this > BioDome in North Carolina? > Sincerely, > Steven Combs > Syncorswim, Inc. > .- > -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:19:36 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: DYMAX CAR Comments: To: traylin@server.uwindsor.ca Nov.14, 1995 Greg Traylin traylin@server.uwindsor.ca I noticed from your web page that you are interested in R. Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion car. A Professor Moller (Retired, Univ. California, Davis, Calif) has been working many years to develop Fuller's idea of an omni-medium car. Attached below is the best information that I have been able to collect (which is a little out of date). =========================================================================== Omni-Medium Transport by Joe S. Moore For many years R. Buckminster Fuller envisioned a scientific car to complement his scientific house. It would be able to go on land, sea, or in the air. It would be capable of vertical take-off and landing. It would be relatively small and economical so that the average person could afford to own one and park it in the back yard or on the roof. It would be able to cruise at about 10,000 feet and fly approximately 300 miles per hour with a range of about 400 miles before refueling. It would be able to carry four people and cost no more than a luxury car. Such vehicles are now being developed! See: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller' 1973 by R. Buckminster Fuller & Robert Marks pages 24-31 & 102-13 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Buckminster Fuller' 1974 by Alden Hatch pages 122-34 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Star-Craft International Sales 1986 900 no. 400 w. Bldg. 9 North Salt Lake City Utah 84054 USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moshier Technologies Corporation 1987 599-a Fairchild Drive Mountain View Calif 94043 USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moller International 1994 1222 Research Park Drive Davis Calif 95616 USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- =========================================================================== A VERTICAL TAKEOFF & LANDING (VTOL) PERSONAL TRANSPORT VEHICLE (Moller) Adapted by Joe S. Moore July 22, 1985 Updated Jan 1, 1991 Model Name 440E COMMUTER Passengers 4 Cruise Speed 190 miles/hour @ 45% power Top Speed 245 miles/hour Rate of Climb 4,700 feet/minute @ 65% power Maximum Range 410 miles, 20 minute reserve Maximum Payload 950 pounds Design Payload 825 pounds Hover Ceiling 11,500 feet Operational Ceiling 19,000 feet Fuel Capacity 60 gallons Empty Weight 1,040 pounds Gross Weight 2,225 pounds Powerplant Rotary (8x100HP) Dimensions 12.7 feet Long, 16.4 feet Wide, 4.6 feet High Cost "Luxury Automobile" For further information: Dr.Paul S.Moller, M.Eng, Ph.D., Pres Moller International 1222 Research Park Drive Davis, CA 95616 USA TEL: 916-756-5086 FAX: 916-756-5179 "Skycar", 'Popular Mechanics' magazine, Jan.1991, pages 35-7. "Prof.Moller's Flight of Fancy: A Commuter's Dream", San Jose Mercury News, Jan.6, 1991, page 11-D. PS: I actually kicked the tires of a 2-seater version (M400) at a 'World of Motorsports' show held at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA, Jan.10-13, 1991. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Further info about Fuller: http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bucky.html Basic Bucky http://www.pacificrim.net/~wginwrep/WorldGame/ World Game http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf/fuller-faq.html FAQ http://www.cerf.net/geni/ Global Energy Grid http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html Synergetics -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 20:44:49 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? Steven Combs stated flatly: >There seems to be some confusion here about what Kirby refers to as >"geodesic math". There is only one kind of math. It is dogmatic statements like the one above that tend to inhibit the wider acceptance of the actual advances made by Bucky and the members of this group. Scientists and Engineers try to make the future some sort of theme park. Humanist Intellectuals wish the future did not exist. Ecologists point out that the future may not exist, after all. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 19:57:18 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: WEB SITES Relevant Bucky web sites: http://www.csn.net/home/bucky.htm No more 2nd Hand God quotes http://www.scienceworld.bc.ca/HISTORY.HTML Expo '86 dome info http://www.ecomall.com/activism/winds.htm Windstar Foundation -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 21:18:03 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Richard Austin Organization: Institute for Planetary Renewal Subject: Not a geodesic, but a dome Hello, I've been developing an alternative building system. It uses a true dome but with vertical walls. I have a site that explains it. If you do something along these lines, take photos and send to me for inclusion in my examples section. This stuff is still new, but may inspire... -- Richard Austin -- richard@rt66.com Institute for Planetary Renewal http://www.rt66.com/~richard/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:02:52 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Movment or is it motion in the Solar system of course i should start with the universe d e f e n i t i o n thermodynamics and so forth but i shall limited to the solar system here we start: distance from the sun time around orbit (years) mercury 5.791 x10**7 km .2408 ** = to the power Venus 1.082 x10**8 .6152 Earth 1.496 x10**8 1.0 Mars 2.279 x10**8 1.8809 Jupiter 7.783 x10**8 11.8622 Saturn 1.427 x10**9 29.4577 Uranus 2.869 x10**9 84.013 Nepetune4.498 x10**9 164.79 pluto 5.900 x10**9 248.4 this is not to remmber but you can notice that the first 4 inner planets are in the millions of km distance and the other 4 in the billions of km and pluto the last is about 1000 times the messenger mercury which about 1/2 million km from the sun as for time of orbit this goes from 2/10 of a year for mercury to 248 years for pluto. they are in constant motion all are accelerat- ing in relative time around the sun some day i shall send the axial rotation and weight in kgrams but for now this is sufficeinet M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:37:18 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Moon Earth motion soalrsystem gravity ocean A clock in a gravity field is slow when compared to free gravity field. Most designers most of the time will think in imagesr ather than words and many great designers have also been great draughtsmen (Leonardo ) now i move to another celliloid which show the moon 2160 mile in diameter 1/8 the weight of Earth its near by orbit 221.500 mile and far orbit 253,000 mile. every 24 hours the moon is 13 degree eastward of the same star. in 27 1/2 days the moon will be relocated in exactly the same meridional position with respect to the stars every 24.50 hour the earth moon complex generate tow high and tow law tides, there is 6 1/4 hours between high and low tied. the Earth Ocean average depth is 3800 meter (about 4km) mass of the earth 6000 x10** 21 kg ** = power world ocean 1.4 x10** 21 kg atmospher .005x10** 21 kg Maltus wrote his book in 1800 and 99% of earthian are still specialist, there is a new entropic law which states the more ovespecialize you are the more choas you bring to the solar system, and some books generat more entropy than others. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 13:01:28 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: ONE TRILLION DOLLAR WAR COST, car production world trade 1948 60 billion dollars 1968 200 = = 1970 278 = = 1985 2,000 = = i was wondering were the trillion dollar of two world warrrrrrss cost, that fuller wrote about, come from. I found this in my note book: National( U.S) defenc outlays totaled 304 billion dollars from 1941 trrough 1945, and total budget - deficit during 1941-43 181 billion dollars budget reciet 133 billion dollars. the treasury was able to finace 45% of all war expenditure through taxes. car production 1989 general Motors 5.5 million passanger car ford 4.0 million = = toyota 3.3 = volkswagen 2.7 = peugeot-citroen nissan fiat each about 2.2 = renault honda mazda chrystler each about 1.2 million 6 more types 1/2 million cars each these numbers are approximation M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:00:14 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? It is not dogmatic to seek clarity in our communication by using universally understood terms. Bucky had a playful, creative intellect and delighted in inventing words and showing new ways of looking at things - But, if we are going to discuss synergetic ideas coherently with a global audience, then we need at least one common language - and that is mathematics. James, I put it to you that if tomorrow you are asked to give the volume of a tetrahedron in your professional work, you will give a mathematically correct answer (as I have done) and not some esoteric Buckyism like 2+2=1 (a clever tool to make an insightful point, but mathematically wrong and confusing). Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 09:08:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Cook Subject: Re: BioDome in Waynesville Steven Combs writes: > Anyone been to this BioDome in North Carolina? I was on the design and construction team from John Denver's Windstar BioDome Project which built the 50 ft diameter (5/8) Biodome ( a "deresonated tensegrity" design by Amy Edmonson and John Katzenburger) at Hans Keller's N.C. BioDome on 75 acres near Waynesville in the Summer and early Fall of 1986. The BioDome also featured an interior two-tier spaceframe decking structure for plant growing areas above the two aquaculture tanks located on the ground level below. The glazing was a transluscent triple-wall polycarbonate panel manufactured in Europe. At night we would set up lights in the BioDome and gaze upon this extraterrestrial structure from afar. I found it interesting that we were constructing this advanced dome within just miles of where Bucky and his students built his first "venetian blind" domes at Black Mountain College in 1949. Bob Cook bcook@pimacc.pima.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 08:36:22 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: BIODOME There was an article about the tensegrity BioDome in the 'Dome Consumer News & Design' newsletter of the National Dome Association in 1982 (#3) on pages 1 & 7. The newsletter is no longer published and I think the Dome Association has been disbanded, but the BFI has a copy in it's files. The title of the article is "Fuller Prunes Dome Material" by staff. It was a deresonated tensegrity. The Windstar Foundation may have additional info: http://www.ecomall.com/activism/winds.htm -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:11:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? Steven Combs rightly observed: > It is not dogmatic to seek clarity in our communication by using >universally understood terms. Bucky had a playful, creative intellect >and delighted in inventing words and showing new ways of looking at >things - But, if we are going to discuss synergetic ideas coherently with >a global audience, then we need at least one common language - and that >is mathematics. James, I put it to you that if tomorrow you are asked to >give the volume of a tetrahedron in your professional work, you will give >a mathematically correct answer (as I have done) and not some esoteric >Buckyism like 2+2=1 (a clever tool to make an insightful point, but >mathematically wrong and confusing). Well, it depends... if I was hired by BFI to write an annotation of sorts of Bucky's work, I WOULD phrase things in the appropriate "Buckyisms". Most folks don't have a clue as to measurement systems, so it really does not matter. They want "their" answers in terms that make sense to THEM. My machinist pals want me to send them everything in decimal inches (hundredths, ten-thousandths, and such). My mold-pattern-maker wants everything is metric, since his automagic CAD to CNC software likes metric values better than inches. My torque wrench is calibrated in foot-pounds of pressure, but the oil pressure gauge on my Volvo reads pressure in kp/cm^2 (kilo-pascals per square centimeter). One wonders about the side-effects of using the tourque wrench on the Volvo! The ones I love best are thermo equations: "...BTUs per hour per square foot per degree F" and it gets WORSE from there! My point is, if you are going to play in Bucky's space, expect one or more folks to want translations of "normal" math into "Buckyisms". Being dogmatic on either "side" of the issue is, in my opinion, poor form. Scientists and Engineers try to make the future some sort of theme park. Humanist Intellectuals wish the future did not exist. Ecologists point out that the future may not exist, after all. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:20:10 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? In Message Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:11:07 -0500, James Fischer writes: >>is mathematics. James, I put it to you that if tomorrow you are asked to >>give the volume of a tetrahedron in your professional work, you will give >>a mathematically correct answer (as I have done) and not some esoteric >>Buckyism like 2+2=1 (a clever tool to make an insightful point, but >>mathematically wrong and confusing). tagdi I think that this subject is hot, some will not believe me but to me this is the crucial point of synergetic; and it might take somtime to find all the answers to these hard invistigation. to think in this geometry you do not have to be sophisticated mathematician but you do need to verify the basic transformation and the link between nature and these structures. my only evidence is the fasination children have for this geometry. they will never be able to do anythin with the cube but give them the rest and they build a universe for you. since it is spontanously engages children i consider it as very powerful verviction much more convincing than phd mathematician or physicist, since for me the child intelegence is still very intelegent. james Well, it depends... if I was hired by BFI to write an annotation of sorts of Bucky's work, I WOULD phrase things in the appropriate "Buckyisms". tagdi what can you do with normal mathematics for physics that you cant do with synergy, and what can you do with synergy that you cant do with normal mathematics? i take bucky seriously and therefor i am trying to see if i can verify his evidence. i do not think it is matter of taste. i am just trying to see if there is some quarks in this discussion. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:28:16 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: DO-TANKS In Vol 8 No 3 &4 of TRIMTAB, it talks about "Creating a Do Tank: We know that many of you have been waiting for the opportunity to meet and cross-pollinate your ideas through discussion and action. To that end, we are interested in establishing a "do tank" as opposed to a "think tank" where individuals are encouraged to take their ideas into the prototype stage and out into the world. We invite all who are interested in helping us with this challenging task." I would like to see this Newsgroup be the "DO-TANK" for us not in California. To this end, I would recommend a listing of priorities of our problems to be solved. My own listing (prioritized) is as follows: -OZONE LAYER -AIR POLLUTION -WATER POLLUTION -EARTH POLLUTION -NON-POLLUTING ENERGY CREATION -SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE -SUSTAINABLE LIVING -WORLDWIDE MEDICINE AID -APPROPRIATE TECHNOLOGY -GLOBAL ENERGY NETWORK -MILITARISM -LONG-TERM PLANNING I would be interested in working with others on these problems. I can be e-mailed at bpaton@inforamp.net I would also rather see others thoughts to appear on the newsgroup ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:35:52 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Energy Related Inventions Program (ERIP) The United States Government (assuming it will keep running) has a program where they will provide funding for anyone who has an invention or idea to save energy. The specific addres is: Energy Related Inventions Program Office of Technology Innovation US Department of Commerce National Institute of Standards and Technology Gaithersburg, MD. 20899-0001 Voice: (301) 975-5500 Fax: (301) 975-3839 e-mail:innovate@enh.nist.gov They have a Worldwide web site as well. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 19:43:26 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: CHEM ELEMENT MODELS CHEMICAL ELEMENT MODELS OF MOST COMMON ISOTOPES by Joe S. Moore Nov 15, 1995 ## ELEMENT PROTONS + NEUTRONS = TOTAL x3 = MITES RHOMBIC DODECAS 01 Hydrogen 1 + 0 = 1 3 02 Helium 2 + 2 = 4 12 0.25 03 Lithium 3 + 4 = 7 21 (24) 0.50 04 Beryllium 4 + 5 = 9 27 05 Boron 5 + 6 = 11 33 06 Carbon 6 + 6 = 12 36 0.75 07 Nitrogen 7 + 7 = 14 42 08 Oxygen 8 + 8 = 16 48 1.00 09 Fluorine 9 + 10 = 19 57 10 Neon 10 + 10 = 20 60 1.25 11 Sodium 11 + 12 = 23 69 12 Magnesium 12 + 12 = 24 72 1.50 13 Aluminum 13 + 14 = 27 81 14 Silicon 14 + 14 = 28 84 1.75 15 Phorphorus 15 + 16 = 31 93 16 Sulfur 16 + 16 = 32 96 2.00 17 Chlorine 17 + 19 = 36 108 2.25 18 Argon 18 + 22 = 40 120 2.50 19 Potassium 19 + 20 = 39 117 20 Calcium 20 + 20 = 40 120 (132) 2.75 21 Scandium 21 + 24 = 45 135 22 Titanium 22 + 25 = 47 141 (144) 3.00 23 Vanadium 23 + 28 = 51 153 24 Chromium 24 + 28 = 52 156 3.25 25 Manganese 25 + 30 = 55 165 26 Iron 26 + 30 = 56 168 3.50 27 Cobalt 27 + 32 = 59 177 28 Nickel 28 + 30 = 58 174 (180) 3.75 29 Copper 29 + 34 = 63 189 30 Zinc 30 + 34 = 64 192 4.00 (204) 4.25 31 Gallium 31 + 38 = 69 207 (216) 4.50 (220) 4.75 32 Germanium 32 + 42 = 74 222 33 Arsenic 33 + 42 = 75 225 34 Selenium 34 + 46 = 80 240 5.00 35 Bromine 35 + 44 = 79 237 36 Krypton 36 + 48 = 84 252 5.25 37 Rubidium 37 + 48 = 85 255 38 Strontium 38 + 50 = 88 264 5.50 39 Yttrium 39 + 50 = 89 267 40 Zirconium 40 + 50 = 90 270 (276) 5.75 41 Niobium 41 + 52 = 93 279 (288) 6.00 42 Molybdenum 42 + 56 = 98 294 43 Technetium 43 + 54 = 97 291 (300) 6.25 44 Ruthenium 44 + 60 = 104 312 6.50 45 Rhodium 45 + 58 = 103 309 46 Palladium 46 + 60 = 106 318 47 Silver 47 + 60 = 107 321 (324) 6.75 (336) 7.00 48 Cadmium 48 + 66 = 114 342 49 Indium 49 + 66 = 115 345 (348) 7.25 (360) 7.50 50 Tin 50 + 72 = 122 366 51 Antimony 51 + 70 = 121 363 (372) 7.75 52 Tellurium 52 + 78 = 130 390 53 Iodine 53 + 74 = 127 381 (384) 8.00 54 Xenon 54 + 78 = 132 396 8.25 55 Cesium 55 + 78 = 133 399 (408) 8.50 56 Barium 56 + 82 = 138 414 57 Lanthanum 57 + 82 = 139 417 58 Cerium 58 + 82 = 140 420 8.75 59 Praseodymium 59 + 82 = 141 423 60 Neodymium 60 + 82 = 142 426 (432) 9.00 61 Promethium 61 + 84 = 145 435 (444) 9.25 62 Samarium 62 + 90 = 152 456 9.50 63 Europium 63 + 90 = 153 459 (468) 9.75 64 Gadolinium 64 + 94 = 158 474 65 Terbium 65 + 94 = 159 477 (480) 10.00 66 Dysprosium 66 + 98 = 164 492 10.25 67 Holmium 67 + 98 = 165 495 68 Erbium 68 + 98 = 166 498 (504) 10.50 69 Thulium 69 + 100 = 169 507 (516) 10.75 (520) 11.00 70 Ytterbium 70 + 104 = 174 522 71 Lutetium 71 + 104 = 175 525 72 Hafnium 72 + 108 = 180 540 11.25 73 Tantalum 73 + 108 = 181 543 74 Tungsten 74 + 110 = 184 552 11.50 75 Rhenium 75 + 112 = 187 561 (564) 11.75 76 Osmium 76 + 116 = 192 576 12.00 77 Iridium 77 + 116 = 193 579 78 Platinum 78 + 117 = 195 585 (588) 12.25 79 Gold 79 + 118 = 197 591 (600) 12.50 80 Murcury 80 + 122 = 202 606 (612) 12.75 81 Thallium 81 + 124 = 205 615 82 Lead 82 + 126 = 208 624 13.00 83 Bismuth 83 + 126 = 209 627 84 Polonium 84 + 125 = 209 627 85 Astatine 85 + 126 = 211 633 (636) 13.25 (648) 13.50 (660) 13.75 86 Radon 86 + 136 = 222 666 87 Francium 87 + 136 = 223 669 (672) 14.00 88 Radium 88 + 138 = 226 678 89 Actinium 89 + 138 = 227 681 (684) 14.25 90 Thorium 90 + 142 = 232 696 14.50 91 Protactinium 91 + 140 = 231 693 (708) 14.75 92 Uranium 92 + 146 = 238 714 93 Neptunium 93 + 144 = 237 711 (720) 15.00 See: _Synergetics 2_, Secs. 986.422, 986.428, 986.433 -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 12:40:21 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: WEALTH AS ENERGY HOW TO BECOM A MILLIONIARE this calculation could be completlly rong, i am just experimenting. i think that the total world GNP in 1985 is 11 trillion dollars want to convert these dollars to energy i choose the price of a barrel of oil which let us say average 20 dollars ........... by dividing 11 trillion/ 20 dollars = .55 trillion barrel or 550 billion barrel x 40 = 2200 billion gallons how much this is in kwat, from my notes i know that an 38 kwat engin uses one gallon every 1/2 hour so 20 kwat uses a gallon each hour total Gnp in kwat/h = 2200 billion x 20kw = 44000 billion kw/h i red that the sun can provide 2000 times the energy we consume that means total of sun = 44000 x 2000 = 88 000 000 billion kwat/h i change the dollars of GNP to kwat since wealth associated with energy, now since i know that the trillions are energy i can multiply them by the income from the sun 11 trillion GNP dollars world X 2000 = 22000 trillion dollars divide by 5 billion (world popoulation) = 4 million dollars for each individual. just to comfort my self since my rommate is so stengy this month i had no money at all. but i know i am potential millionaire ha ha this also show me even if the calculation is totally rong that we live on very low budget and i mean even the rich i can see that from their living rooms in T.v. since i am talking about millionaires i read latly that in the USA there are 700,000 of them, and in the Uk is 70,000 any way the numbers very close since i did read the article quickly. Fuller mention that in 1980 or so USA have 500,000 of this spiecies. SEND ONE DOLLAR ha ha ah hi M. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 12:59:02 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Logistics THE GOLF WAR LOGISTICS: BETWEEN AUGUST 1990 AND AUGUST 1991 THE SUPPLY UNITS POMPED 1.3 BILLION GALLON OF FUEL 52 MILLION MILES IN WAR THEATER ABOUT "2000" TRIPS AROUND THE WORLD FIRST 30 DAYS 36,000 TROOPS 163,581 TONS OF EQUIPMENT FLOWEN AND SHIPPED FAHAD SUPPLIED 1 BILLION DOLLAR OF FRUT AND SOFT DIRNKS FOR ONE YEAR FOR 1/2 MILLION SOLJORS. these are old notes and i can see how i took them was not satisfactory, the most general aspect and total counting tells better story than the details. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:25:57 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: camels and specialization "the specialization of a camel if it were written would be tough one in terms of range fuel economy and adaptation to diffeult terrain and extreme temperature and we must not be surprise that the design that meats it appears extreme" ... beutiful isn't there is similarity between the cowboy hat, face cover when he moved through the dust that cows made moving north, thisdoes not mean that i am familiar with the subject but i know littled about, and the arab nomads moving in and around the sahara 15% of the desert is dunes. so the propogand of camels is totally stupid, i have no intrest in defending no one and specially the very stupid, i have no target i m just relating historical and design ideas,i have no intrest to fight or protect a race. and i am just a little guy. actually we need to know what was in the files of great Britain which have been moved to canada fearing that Germany might get in in WW2, to know what sort of things they played with the rest of the world. does this have a relation to specialize and conquer. m.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 06:35:16 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: BIODOME Comments: To: Nick Pine In-Reply-To: <199511160825.DAA18597@nfs.ee.vill.edu>; from "Nick Pine" at Nov 16, 95 3:25 am Nick Pine writes: > > Hi Joe, > > Can you tell me what this means, in a sentence or two? I'm vaguely > familiar with tensigrity structures. This would be a dome with the > wires and struts on the outside, I suppose... > > >It was a deresonated tensegrity. > > Perhaps this means you somehow make all the wires slightly different > lengths, so they don't all resonate together in the wind? > > Nick > > .- > In a "deresonated" or "rigid" tensegrity the frequency of subdivision is so high that the compression members just touch or "kiss" as Bucky would say. Consequently, the struts may be bolted together and the tension lines removed. See Chapter 6 of _Geodesic Math & How to Use It_ and _Synergetics 1_, Sec. 715.00. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 20:08:21 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Philadelphia's Complete Internet Provider Subject: Re: Computer Modeling of Apple Peeling [Philadelphia Study Group] Packrat (packrat@nznet.gen.nz) wrote: : In article <47lrpe$6b8@netaxs.com>, cjf@netaxs.comp says... : > : > : >John Kirk will be demonstrating some recent work on : >modeling an apple peeling with a computer. : > : >The Study Group is cost-free, except for the expense of modeling : >materials. : > : Will lunch be provided? :-) No, and I agree the time is wretched. Maybe that's why noone is showing up :) I nearly faint each meeting of starvation. -- Christopher J. Fearnley | UNIX SIG Leader at PACS cjf@netaxs.com (finger me!) | (Philadelphia Area Computer Society) cfearnl@pacs.pha.pa.us | Design Science Revolutionary http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf | Explorer in Universe "Dare to be Naive" -- Bucky Fuller | Linux Advocate ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 19:15:25 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Hendrick Hassert Organization: McGill University Computing Centre Subject: Re: Looking for "Dome Book 2" Timm, I know a guy who did the exact same thing in Canada. It's my father. His domes are very well built; I've never seen a more beautiful and interesting house than this one. Hendrick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 18:39:33 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: DOME EXPERIENCE I found the following request while surfing the web: " [IMAGE] GEODESIC DOME HOMES " "Seeking anyone with hands on experience in building their own Dome Home to "mail information to: " pgr@focushope.edu. " "Your cooperation is greatly appreciated." -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 13:36:32 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Design I think that Fuller look at an domain of intrest which needs improvment , learn as much about it and then design a machine for it; an example the dome which houses textile machines in North Carolina, or his the electronic library which a smiliar to a" CD conveyr machine" in huge department store in Utrecht very modern nice machine which brings the storage shelves you want. i am not handy in technical staff, but next year i am going to try learn few technical tips. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 09:18:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Cook Subject: Re: BioDome in Waynesville Brian-- Joe Moore posted the following to the list several days ago to explain what a deresonated tensegrity is: Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Energy and everyone To Nick Pine i just forgot to ask you if you are familiar with the energy calculation that Fuller worked out about energy, and his conclusion that if we improving the efficiency of engens by three fold we will be able to taking care of everyone on P.E. what kind of engins ? M.tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 15:30:49 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: invisible data stress is force per unit area = F/A strain is the elongation = e/l Pressure = force/area body floating or submerged in liquid is buoyed out by a force to the weight of liquid displace. high conductive metals: copper silver gold platinum insulator quartiz mica sulfur tension p.s.i compresion wood 15000 4000 cast iron 6000 50000 cast aluminium 6000 40000 bakelite polyster brittle plastic 2000 8000 concret 600 6000 i see from the above that metals are stronger in compression than tension more notes i read that cylindical strucutre is the most sccssesful design in nature. a tree sustains its branches in compression but the main stress on the tree comes from wind pressure. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 17:11:49 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Artist Fuller was more an artist than scientest ! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 16:41:42 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Alan Thwaits Organization: CRS Online's Frontier Subject: Re: Artist >Fuller was more an artist than scientest ! Raises some interesting questions... What do true artists and true scientists have in common? Is a scientist more of a scientist when s/he's also an artist? Isn't science, after all, about the "art of knowing"? Regards, Alan Alan Thwaits/Praxis Communications/Freelance Writing and Editing athwaits@crso.com http://gutenberg.com/~praxis Tel: 905-272-3119 Fax: 905-272-5173 BBS: 905-272-4455 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 18:18:00 +0100 Reply-To: MALCOLM CAMPBELL Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: MALCOLM CAMPBELL Organization: ALMAC : Grangemouth, Scotland : +44 (0)1324 665371 Subject: Calum & Maureen Hi Gael & Douglas, A letter that surfs the net. New technology that really has to be learnt. I can remember when I was working in a computer department in an electrical store I knew more than most people that came in to look. Mind you this was the time when the ZX Spectrum was all the rage. Do you remember these games? I recently got a shareware disc that had all these old favorites on it and my god are they dated. Mum & Dad are keeping us updated with all your going on's and I like the idea of somebody giving you friendly advice on how to keep your man happy. Is she coming over to Scotland and if so will she have a talk with Maureen? Chance would be a fine thing. Alex keeps asking after you, and you will see a big difference in him when you are across for Christmas. He's bigger, He's smarter, He's cheekier, He's also the biggest pain in the but apart from Grumpy (according to Alex). I take the fifth!! Works SSDD, but Maureen is coming on leaps and bounds. She took a chance back in the summer to be seconded to the new District Council and it has paid of very well. She has the boss she wants and although not official, will most probably be his PA when the new department and Council are up and running. There is one problem though, its interesting and has to be repeated repeated, oh I said that didn't I. Do you get my drift! Unfortunately this will most probably be censored before I get a chance to send it. Nothing really happening here like I said earlier SSDD. The most exciting thing to happen to us in weeks was your unexpected phone call last weekend. Unlike you were the most boring thing will most probably be going to Bali. God you make me sick or am I just very very extremely jealous of your three year adventure. To seek out you life and new civilizations to boldly go were no Gael gas gone before. OOPS!!! I think I better start watching something other than Star Trek. Well this letter is really only a test case, Oh no Alex, Alex wants to type and I said he could have a line. zjdidyhsigggiihihiihiihihilhllljfkds lsjoijjfjfis pao \\zzzzzvvvvvvvbbbbbbnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmm,,. A good typist to boot! I look forward to hearing from you soon, and look forward even more to seeing you after the 16th Of December. Less than a month away yours Calum & Maureen Malcolm --- * 1st 2.00 #5701 * "1stReader is so good it's taxable!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 21:25:57 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Breffni Baggot Organization: NECAnet Subject: Guidance if you have an idea http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~bxb95001/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 09:49:42 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: AUDIOTAPES-PACIFICA BUCKY FULLER-RELATED AUDIOTAPES IN THE PACIFICA RADIO ARCHIVES by Joe S. Moore Nov 20, 1995 ARCHIVE ### T____I____T____L____E / A____U____T____H____O____R ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2IZ0338.04 The Vietnam War, Buckminster Fuller, and Earth Resources / John Cage and Martin Feldman. Cage and Feldman discuss the constructive aspects of the Vietnam War protests in helping to end that conflict, and the hope presented by Buckminster Fuller for tripling the worlds natural resources. WBAI-FM, New York, Jan 1967; 1 reel (58 min.): 7 1/2 ips., mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2BB2091.01 Outstairs and Instairs / Buckminster Fuller. Talk on misconceptions behind man's search to define and control the natural universe. Berkeley, CA, Feb 11, 1969; 1 reel (34 min.): 7 1/2 ips, mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2BB2091.02 Rearranging the Scenary / Buckminster Fuller. Talk on man's battle to recover natural resources, and the modern view that material possession equal wealth. Berkeley, Feb 11, 1969; 1 reel (53 min.): 7 1/2 ips, mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2BB2091.03 Progress Through Fear / Buckminster Fuller. Talk on the impact of science & technology on man's role in the natural world. Berkeley, Feb 11, 1969; 1 reel (39 min.): 7 1/2 ips, mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2BB2091.04 A Revolution in Design / Buckminster Fuller. Presentation of a metaphysical rather than a scientific understanding of the human mind. Berkeley, CA, Feb 11, 1969; 1 reel (57 min.): 7 1/2 ips, mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2BC0915 Contemporary City Planning: the Politics of an Asphalt Jungle / Robert Goodman; interviewed by Fred Stout. Discussion of city planning, highways, and the architecture of Buckminster Fuller and Paolo Soleri. Los Angeles, 1972; 1 reel (41 min.): 7 1/2 ips, mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2BC0929.01 Buckminster Fuller Mini-Festival. Documentary on the architecture and ideas of Buckminster Fuller. Los Angeles, 1972; 2 reels (127 min.): 7 1/2 ips, mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2BC1256 Buckminster Fuller on Spaceship Earth /produced by Robert Snyder. Sound track from Snyder's film which presents Fuller's views about life and the future of man. Los Angeles, 1973; 1 reel (55 min.): 7 1/2 ips, mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- E2BC2247 Buckminster Fuller on Synergetics. Fuller discusses his ideas about the present and future condition of man. Los Angeles, 1975; l reel (54 min.): 7 1/2 ips, mono. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For further information Email: ppspacific@igc.apc.org Phone: 800-735-0230 -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 22:39:08 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: >tagdi: Comments: To: as@twics.com In Message Mon, 20 Nov 1995 17:01:24 +0100, as@twics.com (andreas schneider) writes: >dear tagdi: > >appreciate very much your research into all sorts of comparable & >uncomparable numbers. sorry i am not statisican, but you made me feel like a proffesor ha actually i use to know some of this numbers but you know you cant really remmber all. when i started reading fuller i thought i need to know everything about everything. the bigest mistake i made and i lost a lot of valable time and i can seem to forgive myself if i ever did, anyway my life is not normal to go about doing good search. bui i like to share with you the artistic way fuller have grappled with this matter and then try to give some numbers. the numbers do not need to be precise in the begining, the most important thing is to have an idea about what is going on. now about fuller: fuller checked the number of farmers in the U.S(and which is quite smiliar to Europe) he went back to the begining of the century and found 90% were farmers, i think what i read tells me that you have to to go 1860 or so for that percentage, but any way the number is significant becuse it tells you alot about what has changed and informing you of the present (2%) in relation to companies who own the farms and the empty landscap(also taking by artist to paint). another number is the foreign investment which was 68billion dollars if i rember right it was very law in the begining of the 60's fuller conclusion is that the companies have left The U.S, and they are investing 2 out of 3 dollars in other countries, they took the money with them and that is why America is banckrupt. it does not matter if the last sentence is correct i can always go back and try to correct it. the point is that he links all this numbers which informed him a lot with other important earthquak like data. he takes the U.S as an example becuse it gives a big picture where the big trust toward the future is located. data in europe is also comparable. let us say the income is quite similar 14,000 dollar a year average. the old business people check this intutive bulk to give them a nice picture of how they are doing, i do not have that kind of imagination. oh i forgot Japan in 1990 have 400 billion dollars of international investment 15% of it is in the U.S which tells you that Japan is not buying U.S that is just propaganda does this mean that the japanies companies are leaving japan i do not know. in this kind of search reading has to be jumbing calculating thinking and not rembering. you must know what you are looking for and why, take time to formulate the quesion and ponder about it bit and try to have a bulky picture, chose the books which are promising....sikp if necssaray and do not get cought in specialized information. it is hard to say what i mean, but with little numbers you do more. most of the books are like details, which is good if it is relevent, but also be weare of tantalizing informaion which take you away from the intutive scaled quesion you want answer to. if you are tuning in i would like to discuss fuller quesions in relation of searching for information. i really do not know that much but i share my mistakes and how to avoid them. now i go to see what i know about this areas, i will check if have any other in my note books. i would be interested in the following: > >% of world population with access to active media (telephone, networking) >therein geographical distribution let us say over 100 million in U.S but really the important thing is that the media is controled by the power structure. children watch 6 hours a day of t.v also from Fuller, what i mean is the links the relation. maybe the relation of politics to T.V and Hlywood is important but that is very artistic to find, not all the books which goes in the smarty little details can answer that. china produces more T.vs than any other country i think 50 million but i might be making big mistake. also south of border of U.s produces more T.v than in the US. >% of world population with access to passive media (newspaper, radio, tv) >therein geographical distribution tabloids in England is said to tip the election >% of world population with access to active transportation (cars, bycicles) >therein geographical distribution 60% of europe uses public transpotation, china have a 100 million bysclest. i think the number of cars in the world is important in relation to using energy polution and the switch for technology smart cars traffiking, travel in airplanes (300 million a year) so you see it is a web which needs meaning. average travel personal U.S 10,000 miles a year. fuller calculate also the walking and add both. my way of looking was not coherent that is why i cant answer in detail but i have run through a lot of this numbers in my reading, take the best 10 geograph books with 2 Atlases, 2 wold statistic book and sit one week skiping everything that clutters the head and then you will have the notes in your book of what you need check from time to time to digest them in relations. i said too much sorry. >% of world population with access to passive transportationb (public >transport such as trains, busses, airplanes) >therein geographical distribution > >% of world population with access to active energy (self sufficient solar, >house fire) 50 million use fire wood in africa. the use of soalr energy is very very low, i take my hint from the U.S(Nick Pine) >therein geographical distribution > >% of world population with access to passive energy (electricity, gas etc >through networks) >therein geographical distribution > 80 billion kwat total of electricity, 120 trillion tetrahedon meter of gas. but as i siad we have to check again. >you might have more interesting ideas in that direction. i will check if i fine anything and correct anything. but i stress again that knowing all this numbers does not make for being informative but having them as a refrence is good, try always to deal with totals and the signigicant to the averge person. it might be good idea to start with dozen big numbers and go from there. good luck. i will posting more information which i think even it it is not they type of Fulleren pattren is quite informative. rogive me if i made writing mistakes. sincerly M.Tagdi p.s to digest the gaint data you need to go back again and again.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 23:30:22 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Movment acceleration structure content production capital movement Comments: To: as@twics.com Consider units as imaginary hexgones and pentgons. Mangolia have historical-ecomomical ties wtih china- north boundries 100 miles from transiberia rail. Afric s.sahara 800 diverse people. (hexgones) slave trade 100,000 a year in early 1800 India 1/4 of Africa support twice as many people 50% traditional religion 30 Muslim 20% christian 2/3 of the communication disseminated through out the world originate in one way or the other in the U.S important factor in development of modern technologies has been the system of patent law obtaining in different countries; England 1707 America 1790 France 1791 Germany 1842 Hydro provides small share in s.afric but about77% of total electricity in the tropic and 50.7% in north africa.(this might relate to the grid) L.A combines aerospace and electronic industries 1984 1,432 computer companies. the city has the greates concentration in U.S of mathematicians enginers and skilled technologist. 3th in science research after Boston and s.fransisco. Liquid fuel on large scale started after WII in West Europe Gas for Westren Europe and Japan became charcteristic in late 1960 U.S uses 34% of energy in transportation. standard train in N.A is 100 cars 100 ton each 1950 U.S replace by Sauid Arabia and adjacent gulf as the focous of global reserve USSR stabilized oil production at 12million barrel US 1970 10 million fell 8 million in 1976. 1980 30% of all oil production in the world come from offshore. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 14:47:44 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: AUDIOTAPES-NEW DIMENSIONS BUCKMINSTER FULLER AUDIOTAPES AT NEW DIMENSIONS RADIO by Joe S. Moore Nov 20, 1995 TAPE # T___I___T___L___E ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1064 A PRIMER CONVERSATION with BUCKMINSTER FULLER. "A 'primer' conversation to Bucky's message and his work. A rare and informal dialogue that serves as an intense, dynamic introduction to the visionary world of one of the creative giants of our time." 1 hr, $9.95; Members' price: $8.46 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1570 IS THERE ENOUGH TO GO AROUND? with BUCKMINSTER FULLER. "One of the most comprehensive and imaginative thinkers of our time is captured in essence here, as he gives an extraordinary overview of the state of the planet and human history. Asked whether there are enough resources to support our growing population, the late Buckminster Fuller, age 85 when this was recorded, responds with a tour-de-force capsule history of Western civilization - a refutation of the economics of scarcity first propounded by Thomas Malthus. His answer, spanning politics, religion, geodesic domes, the arms race and more, tickles and challenges our thinking about every topic in his path as he describes the advent of a new world where selfishness is no longer necessary. Says Fuller, 'We are on the threshold of a new wave.' He is the author of many books including _Utopia or Oblivion_ (Bantam 1971) and _Critical Path_ (St. Martin's 1981). You will learn about: * the highly developed geometry of the Babylonians; * why there are sixty minutes in an hour; * why churches fought progressive cosmology; * how geometry as taught today still reinforces the "flat earth" concept; * the fundamental beliefs behind the rise of Marxism; * how invisible realities have changed our world; * the humanitarian potential of technology and industry; * why "we can no longer rationalize selfishness"; * how invisible realities are changing the dynamics of history; * what outer-space exploration taught us about human needs; * what "the little individual" can do to help humanity." 1 hr, $9.95; Members' price: $8.46 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1606 AROUND THE UNIVERSE with R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER. "Buckminster Fuller has been called 'the Leonardo da Vinci of our time.' In this conversation, the visionary inventor, philosopher and humanitarian gives his extraordinarily insightful picture of where the human race is now and how to proceed from here. He describes 'cosmic cost accounting,' being a 'comprehensivist' instead of a specialist, doing more with less, experiential knowing and the ultimate challenge to the future of humanity. In his autobiographical book _Critical Path_ (St. Martin's Press 1981), Bucky sums up a lifetime of deep thought and concern for the planet and humankind. This conversation is the 'summing up of the summing up.' You will learn about: how to do more with less; major shifts in our cultural worldview during Bucky's lifetime; the story of selfishness and hoarding in Western civilization; how specialization has blinded us; developing "livingry" instead of weaponry; the difference between wealth and money; cosmic accounting: the real cost of what we consume; how the space program has changed our awareness of Earth; what you can do to contribute to the welfare of the planet; why a triangle is the strongest structural shape; how private property evolved into corporate consciousness; how we can eliminate the use of fossil fuels." 2 hrs, $15.00; Members' price: $12.75 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1740 THE 50-YEAR EXPERIMENT with BUCKMINSTER FULLER. "A special 90-minute documentary look at the life and work of a 20th-century genius. The story of how Bucky transcended failure and despair, and devoted his life to serving humanity, is one you'll find most compelling. It includes excerpts of Bucky, and people who know and have worked with him. There is also a commentary describing his contribution to our time. Several years in the making, this production makes great listening, and provides much high-protein food for thought. If you're interested in making the world work, you owe it to yourself to give this tape a listen." 2 hrs, $15.00; Members' price: $12.75 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For further information: Email:ron@mcn.org P.O.Box 410510 San Francisco, CA 94141-0510 -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 21:19:09 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: 4D Chronicler Vol. 1, No. 2 Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com \ /\ /\ / \ /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ / The 4D Chronicler \ / \ / \ / \/____\/____\/ \/____\/____\/ /\ /\ /\ An Internet Newsletter /\ /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ by Kirby Urner / \ / \ / \ /____\/____\/____\__________________________________/____\/____\/____\ ======================================================================= Published Quarterly November 1995 Vol 1. No. 2 ======================================================================= THIS ISSUE: FOCUS ON BFI (continued) TABLE OF CONTENTS 1. Centennial Celebration, Nov. 9 4. BFI In Transition (editorial) 2. A Message from Allegra, BFI Chair 5. Note from 4D Solutions 3. Letter from Hans-Meyer, BFI Prez Note: if the header looks funny, adjust your font to fixed pitch ======================================================================= 1. Centennial Celebration, Nov. 9 From the upcoming Trimtab, Autumn 1995 On November 9, the Very Reverend James Parks Morton, Dean of the Cathedral, hosted a moving Centennial celebration before a very large audience at the beautiful St. John the Divine. In 1978, Bucky himself presented an address from the same pulpit that Dean Morton and the other speakers of this evening used. The Centennial program included thoughts on Fuller's ethics from E. J. Applewhite; readings from special selections by and about Bucky given by Allegra Fuller Snyder, by the poet, potter and painter, M. C. Richards, and by the noted actress, Irene Worth. The evening was closed by architect Datuk Lim Chong Keat, and included three musical pieces performed by flautist Paula Robson and pianist Charles Wadworth. The keynote of the evening was a presentation by William McDonough, Dean of the School of Architecture at the University of Virginia. McDonough, one of the most prominent and rigorous environmental architects working today, reviewed some of his current projects with a vision and passion reminiscent of Bucky. The opening of the exhibit, Contemporary Developments in Design Science, took place at the Cathedral in conjunction with the Centennial celebration. The exhibit curator is Haresh Lalvani, Professor of Architecture at Pratt Institute and Design Scientist-in-Residence for the Cathedral of St. John the Divine. This very extensive exhibit will continue to run at the Cathedral through January 3, 1996. It will then move to Pratt Manhattan to run from January 13 to February 9, and then to the Schafler Gallery, Pratt Institute, Brooklyn, from March 13 to April 5. For detailed information, write: Cathedral of St. John the Divine, 1047 Amsterdam Avenue, New York, New York 10025, or call the Cathedral at (212) 316-7400 or the Pratt Institute at (718) 636-3517." 2. A Message from Allegra, BFI Chair From the upcoming Trimtab, Autumn 1995 Our last Trimtab Bulletin, which was titled "Change is Normal," reported on many of the changes that BFI was undergoing, and many we anticipated with the opening of our new Santa Barbara Center, the then-upcoming Centenary and our soon-to-follow entrance into a new millennium. Little did we realize how great the pace of change would be for us as an organization. While it has provided many significant challenges for us, I believe those challenges represent the growing pains of what can be the beginning of a new period of effectiveness and focus for BFI and Design Science work in the world. As one element of that transformation, and after serving eleven years as the BFI's President, I felt it was time for a fresh start in our leadership dynamic. I was very honored at our recent Board meeting, which took place on September 30 and October 1, to place in nomination Hans Meyer for President, which was unanimously supported by the Board members. Hans has served on the Institute's Board and Executive Committee, and as Treasurer since 1984. He has been an active Board member whose organizational, business management and Design Science skills have provided important leadership in building the Institute's viability during this time period. He has taken very great responsibility and provided important leadership as we have challenged ourselves as an organization to re-examine our mission and position our programs for a new era -- spring-boarding on the Centenary into a new millennium. I first met Hans as a young sailor, fresh out of college as an aeronautical engineer, when he spearheaded the racing team on my father's sailing boat, the Intuition. He went on to work with Bucky in the development and creation of prototypes of windmills and in founding the company Windworks (see Trimtab Vol. 2, No.1, April 1984), based in Wisconsin. Windworks later became Omnion Power Engineering when they began focusing on the power conversion technology that allowed alternative energy sources to be "plugged into the energy grid." He is a Design Scientist in the most comprehensive sense, tackling problems and "maintaining the economic initiative" to accelerate further developments. We are all very grateful he has accepted this position. Allegra Fuller Snyder Chairperson 3. Letter from Hans-Meyer, BFI Prez From the upcoming Trimtab, Autumn 1995 Dear BFI Friends and Members: It feels good to be back in communication with all of you. This past year has been a difficult and demanding period for the Institute but, as so often happens, adversity demands creativity, which in turn spawns new ideas and new energy for moving forward. The Board has set for itself a nine-month transition period during which it wants to move the Institute to a more pro-active, Design Science-focused role. We will talk more about this focus and how we feel the Institute might play such a role in upcoming newsletters. To facilitate this transition we would like to bring in several new directors interested in actively participating in the Institute's development. We have also begun a search for a new Executive Director who can work closely with the Board in guiding the Institute into its new life and with our able staff, comprised of John Ferry, Media and Operations Manager; Jackie Lorhke, Office Administrator; and Mark Kelly, Acting Archivist. A specific mission during this transition period is to begin reproduction of the Archive, preferably in digital form, so that its accessibility can be truly universal. At the Institute's Board of Directors' meeting at the end of September, Don Moore was elected Vice President; Neal Katz, Treasurer; Marty Leaf, Secretary; and myself as President. The new Executive Committee will be staffed by Tony Huston, Joshua Arnow, Jaime Snyder, Thomas Zung and myself. Allegra Fuller Snyder (Board Chairperson), Joan Abrahamson, and Amy Edmondson comprise the balance of our Board members. The terms of three dedicated, long-time board members, Ed Applewhite, Bill Perk and Shirley Sharkey have expired. Each of these individuals has been of immeasurable service to the Institute over the years. We will greatly miss their input at Board meetings, but look forward to their continued interaction with the Institute. On July 12, 1996 we will assess our progress. If we are making a measurable contribution to humanity's success, we will continue on. If we are not meeting our objectives, we will further restructure and start again. All of you are critical to this process. We would like to hear from you to know how we can better serve your needs and to get your thoughts on how the Institute might better catalyze sustainable success for all humanity. Please direct any communications to me in this regard at the BFI: 2040 Alameda Padre Serra, Suite 224, Santa Barbara, CA 93103; e-mail -- BFI@aol.com ; or fax 805-962-4440. Sincerely, Hans Meyer President 4. BFI in Transition (Editorial) Thanks grant funds and Mark Kelly's research, BFI has purchased a powerful Apple computer and a color scanner. Now that BFI has the technology to put up some web pages, I can think of no more manageable and self-defining move than to develop a more public face on the internet. Not discussed in the above TrimTab communiques is the BFI board's recommendation to Allegra that she seek a new home for the archives. What will be the new mission and purpose of BFI if this recommendation is taken seriously, and a new home is found? I can think of no more appropriate forum in which to fashion the new look and feel for the Institute than the World Wide Web. Talent is standing by, disk space has been offered, BFI has the necessary equipment. Coordination and leadership are the only needed ingredients. 5. Note from 4D Solutions My first issue indicated this would be a monthly publication, based on the paucity of incoming tidbits, I've adjusted this to quarterly. The bulk of this issue is a preview of upcoming TrimTab items and was forwarded to me by Jaime Snyder. This communication is distributed free via the internet by 4D Solutions, a private solutions provider based in Portland, Oregon. Kirby Urner is responsible for the content and any inaccuracies or omissions should be brought to his attention. Email your news and comments to: pdx4d@teleport.com. Past issues: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/4dchron.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:02:01 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: energy Comments: To: as@twics.com > >% of world population with access to passive energy (electricity, gas etc >through networks) >therein geographical distribution Gas world reserve 294 trillion tetravetexia meter flared 1980 175 billion tetraverexia meter 1985 100 = = = world production 1950 185 billion tet meter 1986 1762 = = = ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:42:50 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Design an airpalne velocity of 1/10,000 of speed of light is hurld with the earth with speed of 1/1000 of speed of light the gravity is enormous to keep it from being thrown away from earth the airplane is also deflectedd by curolious effect pushing it eastward in north hemspher. the wings are curved for 2 reason one to resist the compression stress and the second the airodynamic necassary for the lift these are just few of the principls that interact to make the airplane design. overlaping general principles that make everything in nature and engeneering. simple design combine functions, comples design separate functions. any large design can be separated into few repeting pattrens(parts). Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 14:01:29 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Re: Artist I opened the 1993 version of the Synergetic Atomic Model with - "Art is not truth. Art is a lie that makes us realize truth". Pablo Picasso When I sent a copy of an early version to the BFI (hand-drawn graphics) and they responded saying that the bibliography was non-standard, I realized that they had confused a work of art with a term paper. Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 21:11:44 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Artist In Message Sun, 19 Nov 1995 16:41:42 +0000 (GMT), Alan Thwaits writes: >>Fuller was more an artist than scientest ! > >Raises some interesting questions... What do true artists and true scientists >have in common? Is a scientist more of a scientist when s/he's also an artist? > > >Isn't science, after all, about the "art of knowing"? I like Degas, Piere klasovski, and Pazzolini as film maker. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:57:31 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Artists vs. Scientists Tagdi wrote: >>>Fuller was more an artist than scientest ! >> >>Raises some interesting questions... What do true artists and true scientists >>have in common? Is a scientist more of a scientist when s/he's also an artist? >> >>Isn't science, after all, about the "art of knowing"? > > I like Degas, Piere klasovski, and Pazzolini as film maker. The Basic Differences Between Scientists and Arists: Artists know that beauty is truth. Scientists know that truth is beauty. Artists are rarely famous until after death. Scientists are in the same boat. Artists have a hard time telling the layman about the "meaning" of their work, and are subject to massive amounts of misinterpretation. Scientists have the same problem. Art is viewed as a "magic" process, so a lifetime of work is not taken into account when an artist completes a work in one week/day/hour. Scientists have the same problem. Many fakes exist in art. Also in Science. Some art lacks a sense of perspective. Much Science lacks a sense of perspective. ...I could go on... Scientists and Engineers try to make the future some sort of theme park. Humanist Intellectuals wish the future did not exist. Ecologists point out that the future may not exist, after all. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:57:40 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: 4D Chronicler, Vol 1. No. 2 (FOCUS ON BFI - continued) \ /\ /\ / \ /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ / The 4D Chronicler \ / \ / \ / \/____\/____\/ \/____\/____\/ /\ /\ /\ An Internet Newsletter /\ /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ by Kirby Urner / \ / \ / \ /____\/____\/____\__________________________________/____\/____\/____\ ======================================================================= Published Quarterly November 1995 Vol 1. No. 2 ======================================================================= THIS ISSUE: FOCUS ON BFI (continued) TABLE OF CONTENTS 1. Centennial Celebration, Nov. 9 4. BFI In Transition (editorial) 2. A Message from Allegra, BFI Chair 5. Note from 4D Solutions 3. Letter from Hans-Meyer, BFI Prez Note: if the header looks funny, adjust your font to fixed pitch ======================================================================= 1. Centennial Celebration, Nov. 9 From the upcoming Trimtab, Autumn 1995 On November 9, the Very Reverend James Parks Morton, Dean of the Cathedral, hosted a moving Centennial celebration before a very large audience at the beautiful St. John the Divine. In 1978, Bucky himself presented an address from the same pulpit that Dean Morton and the other speakers of this evening used. The Centennial program included thoughts on Fuller's ethics from E. J. Applewhite; readings from special selections by and about Bucky given by Allegra Fuller Snyder, by the poet, potter and painter, M. C. Richards, and by the noted actress, Irene Worth. The evening was closed by architect Datuk Lim Chong Keat, and included three musical pieces performed by flautist Paula Robson and pianist Charles Wadworth. The keynote of the evening was a presentation by William McDonough, Dean of the School of Architecture at the University of Virginia. McDonough, one of the most prominent and rigorous environmental architects working today, reviewed some of his current projects with a vision and passion reminiscent of Bucky. The opening of the exhibit, Contemporary Developments in Design Science, took place at the Cathedral in conjunction with the Centennial celebration. The exhibit curator is Haresh Lalvani, Professor of Architecture at Pratt Institute and Design Scientist-in-Residence for the Cathedral of St. John the Divine. This very extensive exhibit will continue to run at the Cathedral through January 3, 1996. It will then move to Pratt Manhattan to run from January 13 to February 9, and then to the Schafler Gallery, Pratt Institute, Brooklyn, from March 13 to April 5. For detailed information, write: Cathedral of St. John the Divine, 1047 Amsterdam Avenue, New York, New York 10025, or call the Cathedral at (212) 316-7400 or the Pratt Institute at (718) 636-3517." 2. A Message from Allegra, BFI Chair From the upcoming Trimtab, Autumn 1995 Our last Trimtab Bulletin, which was titled "Change is Normal," reported on many of the changes that BFI was undergoing, and many we anticipated with the opening of our new Santa Barbara Center, the then-upcoming Centenary and our soon-to-follow entrance into a new millennium. Little did we realize how great the pace of change would be for us as an organization. While it has provided many significant challenges for us, I believe those challenges represent the growing pains of what can be the beginning of a new period of effectiveness and focus for BFI and Design Science work in the world. As one element of that transformation, and after serving eleven years as the BFI's President, I felt it was time for a fresh start in our leadership dynamic. I was very honored at our recent Board meeting, which took place on September 30 and October 1, to place in nomination Hans Meyer for President, which was unanimously supported by the Board members. Hans has served on the Institute's Board and Executive Committee, and as Treasurer since 1984. He has been an active Board member whose organizational, business management and Design Science skills have provided important leadership in building the Institute's viability during this time period. He has taken very great responsibility and provided important leadership as we have challenged ourselves as an organization to re-examine our mission and position our programs for a new era -- spring-boarding on the Centenary into a new millennium. I first met Hans as a young sailor, fresh out of college as an aeronautical engineer, when he spearheaded the racing team on my father's sailing boat, the Intuition. He went on to work with Bucky in the development and creation of prototypes of windmills and in founding the company Windworks (see Trimtab Vol. 2, No.1, April 1984), based in Wisconsin. Windworks later became Omnion Power Engineering when they began focusing on the power conversion technology that allowed alternative energy sources to be "plugged into the energy grid." He is a Design Scientist in the most comprehensive sense, tackling problems and "maintaining the economic initiative" to accelerate further developments. We are all very grateful he has accepted this position. Allegra Fuller Snyder Chairperson 3. Letter from Hans-Meyer, BFI Prez From the upcoming Trimtab, Autumn 1995 Dear BFI Friends and Members: It feels good to be back in communication with all of you. This past year has been a difficult and demanding period for the Institute but, as so often happens, adversity demands creativity, which in turn spawns new ideas and new energy for moving forward. The Board has set for itself a nine-month transition period during which it wants to move the Institute to a more pro-active, Design Science-focused role. We will talk more about this focus and how we feel the Institute might play such a role in upcoming newsletters. To facilitate this transition we would like to bring in several new directors interested in actively participating in the Institute's development. We have also begun a search for a new Executive Director who can work closely with the Board in guiding the Institute into its new life and with our able staff, comprised of John Ferry, Media and Operations Manager; Jackie Lorhke, Office Administrator; and Mark Kelly, Acting Archivist. A specific mission during this transition period is to begin reproduction of the Archive, preferably in digital form, so that its accessibility can be truly universal. At the Institute's Board of Directors' meeting at the end of September, Don Moore was elected Vice President; Neal Katz, Treasurer; Marty Leaf, Secretary; and myself as President. The new Executive Committee will be staffed by Tony Huston, Joshua Arnow, Jaime Snyder, Thomas Zung and myself. Allegra Fuller Snyder (Board Chairperson), Joan Abrahamson, and Amy Edmondson comprise the balance of our Board members. The terms of three dedicated, long-time board members, Ed Applewhite, Bill Perk and Shirley Sharkey have expired. Each of these individuals has been of immeasurable service to the Institute over the years. We will greatly miss their input at Board meetings, but look forward to their continued interaction with the Institute. On July 12, 1996 we will assess our progress. If we are making a measurable contribution to humanity's success, we will continue on. If we are not meeting our objectives, we will further restructure and start again. All of you are critical to this process. We would like to hear from you to know how we can better serve your needs and to get your thoughts on how the Institute might better catalyze sustainable success for all humanity. Please direct any communications to me in this regard at the BFI: 2040 Alameda Padre Serra, Suite 224, Santa Barbara, CA 93103; e-mail -- BFI@aol.com ; or fax 805-962-4440. Sincerely, Hans Meyer President 4. BFI in Transition (Editorial) Thanks grant funds and Mark Kelly's research, BFI has purchased a powerful Apple computer and a color scanner. Now that BFI has the technology to put up some web pages, I can think of no more manageable and self-defining move than to develop a more public face on the internet. Not discussed in the above TrimTab communiques is the BFI board's recommendation to Allegra that she seek a new home for the archives. What will be the new mission and purpose of BFI if this recommendation is taken seriously, and a new home is found? I can think of no more appropriate forum in which to fashion the new look and feel for the Institute than the World Wide Web. Talent is standing by, disk space has been offered, BFI has the necessary equipment. Coordination and leadership are the only needed ingredients. 5. Note from 4D Solutions My first issue indicated this would be a monthly publication, based on the paucity of incoming tidbits, I've adjusted this to quarterly. The bulk of this issue is a preview of upcoming TrimTab items and was forwarded to me by Jaime Snyder. This communication is distributed free via the internet by 4D Solutions, a private solutions provider based in Portland, Oregon. Kirby Urner is responsible for the content and any inaccuracies or omissions should be brought to his attention. Email your news and comments to: pdx4d@teleport.com. Past issues: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/4dchron.html -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 20:11:08 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? syncswim@world.std.com (Steven L Combs) wrote: > There seems to be some confusion here about what Kirby refers to as >"geodesic math". There is only one kind of math. Fuller resolves the >volume problem in two ways. One is to use the Dymaxion Vector Constant >as a synergetic correction factor. The other is to speak of tetravolumes >rather numeric volume. I find these distinctions confusing. Mathematicians often set forth games with definitions just 'given' -- these are the rules. Some geometries say only one line thru point x can be parallel to line L, some say an infinite number, some say none. Many math games exist and their groundrules are not all the same. There is no 'only one kind of math' the way I understand math. If Bucky wants to use the tetrahedron as his measuring cup and assign numeric volumes using this shape, he is well within mathematical precedent (for setting up a game with self-consistent assumptions). I don't think mathematicians would have a problem with synergetics on this point, though on many other points (where it starts to sound like physics or metaphysics) they would say it is no longer purely mathematics. > But it is incorrect to say that a tetrahedron of edge=1 has a volume >of 1, it doesn't. No offense intended or implied, but we must be careful >with our terms lest we be misunderstood or appear simply wrong. Sorry, but this is a matter of definition and it is internally consistent within synergetics to make this move. You don't seem to understand the level at which Bucky was taking a fork in the road (at the basic, definitional level where we have arbitrarily decided, and embedded for thousands of years, the picture of a cube as a unit of volume). Bucky said the Greeks were probably prejudiced against tetrahedral measuring cups because they're tippy and would spill their contents easily. But if we'd had unit-tetras for thousands of years, and you came along proposing the cube, I'd say that's potentially interesting. >it does no good to speak of "two triangled" instead of "two squared". >Better to say "two to the second power" and avoid both confusion and >inaccuracy. No, I think 'two triangled' and 'two tetrahedroned' is useful, though I don't say it often because its a mouth full and you only need to make the point once. The synergetics constant was for converting between two systems, but as long as you stay within synergetics, you don't need it. You're anxious to make Cartesian cubism the foundation and foray into synergetics holding on to the synergetics constant for safety, but that is not required. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:02:20 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck Stoffregen Subject: Dome Classes Comments: To: Synergetics@teleport.com I will be teaching a class; Geodesic Dome Model Building, through the Madison Area Technical College and another called Geodesic Dome Math. Held at MATC's Downtown Campus, 211 N. Carroll Street, Madison Wisconsin. The model building class, course number 804-410-001, will be held all four Tuesdays in February, (2/6/96, 2/13/96, 2/20/96 & 2/27/96) from 6:00-9:00 PM. Cost - $18.00. The geodesic math class, course number 804-410-002, will be held all four Tuesdays in March, (3/5/96, 3/12/96, 3/19/96 & 3/26/96) from 6:00-9:00PM. Cost - $18.00. This is my first time teaching these classes and need as much help and support from you, my listserve companions. I have been lurking for nearly a year and haven't had the time to respond more than a handful of times. Though you don't know me too well, I have read every posting that I recieved. You must have your social security number and the course number ready when you phone (608-246-6240 or 1-800-628-6282). You are not officially registered until you have paid your fees. Here is an outline of each class, let me know what I should add or correct. Your input will be valuable to me. Chuck Stoffregen Computer Teacher Wrestling Coach Madison Area Technical College cas1276@madison.tec.wi.us Fax (608) 246-6880 Synergy - Behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the behavior of their parts taken seperately. R.B. Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:59:58 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: hurricanes/domes Comments: To: edlantz@aol.com In-Reply-To: <9511211847.AA13015@newsbf02.news.aol.com>; from "edlantz@aol.com" at Nov 21, 95 1:47 pm edlantz@aol.com writes: > > Although I do not have firsthand knowledge, I heard that there was a > geodesic home in Homestead or South Miami that withstood hurricane Andrew > when all other homes around it were destroyed. > .- > In the Spring 1993 issue of 'Dome' magazine there were two articles about domes that survived hurricanes and earthquakes. See: "Domes Triumph Over Rages of Nature", pages 17-18 and "Living on the Fault Line", pages 18-21. The first article talks about a hurricane on the island of Kauai in Hawaii, another one in Lafayette, Louisiana, and an earthquake in Landers, California. Write the Dome Information Center P.O.Box 9221 Moreno, CA 92552-9221 and request the free "Dome News Flier". The second article talks about earthquakes in the Santa Cruz and Yucca Valley areas of California. It also mentions a dome that survived a hurricane in Galveston, Texas. Fuller designed domes to withstand winds of up to 210 miles/hour. See _Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller_, pages 61, 204, and 209. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:09:59 -0500 Reply-To: Edlantz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Edlantz Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: hurricanes/domes Although I do not have firsthand knowledge, I heard that there was a geodesic home in Homestead or South Miami that withstood hurricane Andrew when all other homes around it were destroyed. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:26:11 -0500 Reply-To: Edlantz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Edlantz Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Spherical Image Pixel Problem Hi. I am new to this newsgroup and to geodesic math. I am interested in deriving a universal multiresolution spherical image format for immersive graphics (domed projection, virtual reality, etc.). The problem is defining a coordinate system which has equal area pixels over a sphere. Recursive tesselation of an icosahedron is one approach, but how do I reference each triangle ? Is there a geodesic coordinate system? I need some good references on geodesic math. Thanks. Ed Lantz Astronaut Memorial Planetarium Cocoa, Florida edlantz@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 13:43:51 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: hurricanes/domes >edlantz@aol.com writes: >> >> Although I do not have firsthand knowledge, I heard that there was a >> geodesic home in Homestead or South Miami that withstood hurricane Andrew >> when all other homes around it were destroyed. >> .- >> Joy: >In the Spring 1993 issue of 'Dome' magazine there were two articles about >domes that survived hurricanes and earthquakes. See: > >"Domes Triumph Over Rages of Nature", pages 17-18 and "Living on the Fault >Line", pages 18-21. > >The first article talks about a hurricane on the island of Kauai in Hawaii, >another one in Lafayette, Louisiana, and an earthquake in Landers, California. >Write the Dome Information Center > P.O.Box 9221 > Moreno, CA 92552-9221 > >and request the free "Dome News Flier". > >The second article talks about earthquakes in the Santa Cruz and Yucca Valley >areas of California. It also mentions a dome that survived a hurricane in >Galveston, Texas. tagdi this kind of news is what is needed to show everyone that it is possible to survive nature destruction(one woman did not like god any more becuse of an earthquake in Sovit union few years ago, the blocks where heavy) T.V news make everything glamourous or horrifying- they use nature for business, observe the latest Nike advertisment taken in Grand canyon) Fuller designed domes to withstand winds of up to 210 miles/hour. See >_Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller_, pages 61, 204, and 209. if i remmber correct there are winds that are 600 miles/hour or is that not possible. another idea is it possible to use some sort of tringulation to protect the normal standing millions of convential buildings and houses. if you look at a earthquake map you can predict that sonner or later the schools of artitecture are qoing to make 90 degree detuer to fuller type structure. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 13:51:09 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: email-a letter >hi mohamed, > >> >limiting the subject of study i can do better. > >my own approach to comprehensivity is to follow my curiosity in the search >for new, meaningful interpretations of reality, and only pay attention to >the information that sort of 'calls attention to itself'. what i'm saying >is that when the mind sees a connection between two events, that connection >is usually easy to remember depending on how important it seems. moving >around continually, and trying new directions of study, is important >because the mind can find all kinds of connections between topics that seem >completely irrelevant to one-another. it's not important to remember >everything, i think. what's important is to let curiosity direct the course >of study. it's easier to remember what you are specifically curious about >than to remember some information that you hope to find some meaning for in >the future. i tend to keep lots of notes and books around, to save the >information that i might someday need, and then all i have to remember is >that it is there, i don't have to remember the details. i think this is >similar to what you are doing, but from your letters, it almost sounds like >you are trying to remember and find meaning in too much at once, like you >are trying to put universe in your mind, instead of simply being, part of >universe. your idea to focus on geometry while still studying some other >subjects sounds like a good plan. there is always new information to learn >- you don't have to *know* all the information, you just have to be able to >find meaning in it. Karl > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:25:39 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? There is nothing arbitrary about cubic volume. If I say that I have 10 cubic feet of matter - you can't just throw out the cube part and insert tetrahedral. If you want to use tetrahedral volume mensuration, fine, but label your units properly. I do not understand the confusion here. Bucky clearly states that there are two approaches to tetrahedral volume accounting. Either set the edge of the tetrahedron =2 s' to get a volume of 1, or simply speak of tetravolumes. That is what he did! Perhaps confusion arises because two triangled does generate the same number of triangles as two squared generates squares. But they do not represent the same area. Nor does 2 tetrahedral feet = 2 cubic feet. If some innocent child asks us for the volume of a tetrahedron and we say wrongly that it is 1 (with no units or explanation), then who is mis-teaching the children? This conversation speaks volumes about why synergetics hasn't caught on more than it has. Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:01:48 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: syn-l: Spherical Image Pixel Problem (fwd) Gerald A. de Jong writes: > From desiree.teleport.com!teleport.com!synergetics-l-owner Wed Nov 22 02:19:46 1995 > Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:22:59 +0100 > Message-Id: <199511221022.AA28183@xs1.xs4all.nl> > X-Sender: gdj@xs4all.nl > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > From: "Gerald A. de Jong" > Subject: Re: syn-l: Spherical Image Pixel Problem (fwd) > Cc: edlantz@AOL.COM > X-Mailer: > Sender: owner-synergetics-l@teleport.com > Precedence: list > Reply-To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > > > Ed Lantz: > >> Hi. I am new to this newsgroup and to geodesic math. I am interested in > >> deriving a universal multiresolution spherical image format for immersive > >> graphics (domed projection, virtual reality, etc.). The problem is > >> defining a coordinate system which has equal area pixels over a sphere. > >> Recursive tesselation of an icosahedron is one approach, but how do I > >> reference each triangle ? Is there a geodesic coordinate system? > >> > >> I need some good references on geodesic math. Thanks. > > the icosa is indeed the closest we come to spreading pixels > equally over a sphere. > > the way to reference each triangle is as follows, i believe: > > suppose you want to assign a one-byte pixel to each triangle. you > can divide the memory space into twenty equal segments, one for > each icosa triangle. then consider each triangle to be divided > into four triangles and divide each segment accordingly, repeat > the subdivisions to the depth you desire. if the depth is D, > you'll need 20*4^D bytes of memory for the pixels. for example, > if you take it to depth 5, you'll need 20*4*4*4*4*4 bytes, or > 20k of pixel memory. > > --- > Gerald de Jong, gdj@xs4all.nl, http://www.xs4all.nl/~gdj > ...an inch and hour, two feet a day (-gd) > > .- > -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:35:27 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: VIDEOTAPE-WIESE FULLER-RELATED VIDEOTAPE DOLPHIN ADVENTURES Produced by Michael Wiese Directed by Michael Wiese and Hardy Jones Featuring an appearance by Buckminster Fuller. "Nature would not have given the dolphin such a large brain unless it was doing something quite remarkable with it." Buckminster Fuller "DOLPHIN ADVENTURES is a fascinating exploration of the incredible undersea world of the dolphin. Experience the extraordinary beauty of one of the world's most intelligent creatures. The first time a real-life 'close encounters' with aquatic creatures has been recorded on film in the open oceans." $19.95 plus shipping Michael Wiese Productions 11288 Ventura Blvd., #821 Studio City, CA 91604 Tel: 800-379-8808 Tel: 818-379-8799 Fax: 818-986-3408 Email: wiese@earthlink.net -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:12:01 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bill Paton Organization: B. Paton Ent. Subject: Multivariable option program I don't know much about this kind of thing, but the following www site http://biomserv.univ-lyon1.fr/NetMul.html allows you to put in various variables and determine useful information. It could be of interest to world gamers, or those who want to put in bucky's variables. Bill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:05:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? syncswim@world.std.com (Steven L Combs) wrote: > There is nothing arbitrary about cubic volume. If I say that I have >10 cubic feet of matter - you can't just throw out the cube part and >insert tetrahedral. If you want to use tetrahedral volume mensuration, >fine, but label your units properly. > I do not understand the confusion here. Bucky clearly states that >there are two approaches to tetrahedral volume accounting. Either set >the edge of the tetrahedron =2 s' to get a volume of 1, or simply speak of >tetravolumes. That is what he did! > Perhaps confusion arises because two triangled does generate the >same number of triangles as two squared generates squares. But they do >not represent the same area. Nor does 2 tetrahedral feet = 2 cubic feet. > If some innocent child asks us for the volume of a tetrahedron and >we say wrongly that it is 1 (with no units or explanation), then who is >mis-teaching the children? This conversation speaks volumes about why >synergetics hasn't caught on more than it has. >Sincerely, >Steven Combs >Syncorswim, Inc. > I see an honest and useful difference in viewpoint here. Whether this explains why synergetics hasn't caught on I don't claim to know. If you say the volume of a bag of sand is 10, and don't say 10 what, I agree, you're being ambiguous. Could be 10 cups, 10 pints, 10 gallons, 10 liters... I believe those are what you call 'numeric volumes' in that these units do not assume a shape: a hat can be 10 gallons, i.e. 10 gallons can be "hat shaped". Cups generally look like cups, but an amorphous blob can have a cupvolume just as well. So can a tetrahedron or whatever. But when we speak of the volume of an airplane hanger, say, we generally speak in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters. If we mean x tetrahedra with edges of such 'n such a length instead, then not only will our unit be regarded as quirky in the extreme, but we will be asked to express our unit tetrahedron in terms of the unit cube, so that the cubically minded can convert our figure for total volume to one that makes more sense to them. All that being said, if I'm in a room full of people talking about synergetics, or teaching synergetics to kids, I will talk about close packing and the isotropic vector matrix, identifying the 'prime vector' as the distance between centers of close packed spheres (to the non- synergetics-minded I will explain this is the same as the 'face centered cubic' packing). I will then say that a tetrahedron of prime vector edge length has a volume of 1 -- this is my unit of volume. The volume of an octahedron of the same edge has a volume of 4. I may say '4 tetra- volumes' but I may not. And I won't necessarily mention the synergetics constant in this context because I'm not caring about the cubic culture outside for now, but am speaking basic truths within this alternative paradigm. The volume of a rhombic dodeca is 6 etc. You should realize that associating 1 times 1 with a square and 1 times 1 times 1 with a cube is purely conventional: you are associating a picture, i.e. a shape, with a mathematical operation. There is nothing more 'true' or 'fundamental' about a unit-volume cube than a unit-volume, prime vector edged tetrahedron. I agree with you that going back and forth between the cubic and tetrahedral systems requires a conversion constant, but the fact is that Bucky was positing synergetics on the basis of entirely different definitions. No perfectly straight lines, no impermeable surfaces -- these too are non-Euclidean versions of more familiar concepts. If, as you say, Bucky was buying into the cube as the true and fundamental depiction of 1x1x1 and that synergetics was founded in this true and fundamental cube, but managed to phase in tetravolumes thanks to the synergetics constant, then I think Bucky didn't realize he could make a cleaner break with the past and simply posit the prime-vector edged tetra as volumetric unity, 'forgetting' that the unit-cube ever existed. But my reading is that Bucky did realize his freedoms in this regard. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:13:54 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? At 07:09 AM 11/22/95 +0001, Steven L Combs wrote: > I'm at a loss to explain why there is dissension on this basic point. Me too, but I think its a useful dialog. I continued it in 'geodesic' just now. I access 'geodesic' as a newsgroup only (bit.listserv.geodesic). Maybe you too, which is why I also forwarded my last post by email -- to alert you that the dialog was continuing. I won't keep doing that, now that we're in touch. >If you wish to use the tetrahedron as a unit volume, you can either set >the edge length = 2s' , or you can simply speak of "tetravolumes" . > This is what Bucky did! I don't think he ever made it as clear as you do how we need to speak. >He did not simply make up his own game. He felt he was discovering generalized principles, and capturing them in a special-case language partly of his own invention, and to the best of his ability. He felt much of established math was a made up game of less immediate relevance, though not 'untrue' thereby. >Do I need to reference the page after page in synergetics where this is >laid out? Bucky was scrupulously truthful. I don't see 1x1x1=[1 tetrahedron] as a 'lie'. >A tetrahedron of edge = 1 does not have a volume of 1, and he never said it did. If he didn't, he could have, and not have been untruthful. I think he did, if we agree to call the prime vector 1, which he usually referred to as unity-2. >Sometimes he may have gotten careless with his wording and assumed the reader >remembered this situation but he did not abandon truth or logic. Sorry, but I think you come off as rather fundamentalist here. Please explain what is so fundamentally truthful and logical about 2x2x2=cube versus 2x2x2=tetrahedron. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:36:31 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: WIND SPEEDS WIND SCALES Compiled by Joe S. Moore Nov 21, 1995 M_P_H S_T_R_E_N_G_T_H BEAUFORT FUJITA C_O_M_M_E_N_T_S 000-000 Calm 00 Smoke goes straight up 001-003 Light Air 01 Smoke drifts but vanes still 004-007 Light Breeze 02 Wind felt on face, vane moves 008-012 Gentle Breeze 03 Leaves move constantly 013-018 Moderate Breeze 04 Raises dust, moves twigs 019-024 Fresh Breeze 05 Small trees begin to sway 025-031 Strong Wind 06 Big trees sway a little 032-038 Stiff Wind 07 Whole trees move 039-046 Stormy Wind 08 Breaks twigs off trees 040-072 Weak Tornado 0 Light damage 047-054 Strong Gale 09 Blows off roof tiles 055-063 Whole Gale 10 Trees uprooted, much damage 064-072 Hurricane-Like Storm 11 Widespread damage 073-082 Hurricane 12 Disaster 073-112 Weak Tornado 1 Moderate damage 113-157 Strong Tornado 2 Considerable damage 158-206 Strong Tornado 3 Severe damage 207-260 Violent Tornado 4 Devastating damage 261-318 Violent Tornado 5 Incredible damage -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:50:13 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ed Applewhite Subject: Re: email-a letter Tagdi and Karl This is what Fuller meant by hid dictum that "All discovery is precessional." See especialy the first 100 pages of COSMOGRAPHY. Ed Apple ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 21:38:00 +0100 Reply-To: MALCOLM CAMPBELL Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: MALCOLM CAMPBELL Organization: ALMAC : Grangemouth, Scotland : +44 (0)1324 665371 Subject: Hazel Dear Mum, I'm a very upset wee doggie. There was a great long letter from you to my foster parents and Auntie Vida tonight and would you believe it not a single word to poor little me. I'm sure they told you how I was but all the same, it would have been nice if you had mentioned me at least once. I know that Auntie Siobhan said that I was getting a bit fat, but that is surely not my fault, it's all to do with the fact that I have company all day, and I have got these folk I live with wrapped round my little paws Today my foster Mum went shopping to Qmart with my Great Aunt Vida and when she came back she had bought me a lovely smokey bone, which everyone keeps playing at hide & seek with just to keep me from pining too much over my absent parents. It's O.K. though, I really am fairly happy with my lot, but I am looking forward to seeing you at Christmas time. Lots and lots of love, mugs, more mugs and licks, Wee Hazel. Darling, you would not believe how good that dog has become on the computer since living with your Dad, I always knew that we would turn her into a little star, she is booked to go on Thats Life with Ester Ranson next week, and all procedes from the show are going towards her vet bills. Clever isn't she?.. Please, please come for Christmas I couldn't possibly cope with Auntie Vida on my own without your support,she really is getting a bit long in the tooth and more difficult to cope with. How she is going to cope with a wedding next year I'll never know, but we are all going to help her as much as possible so that Caroles family dont notice just how she is past help. Now that Doug is in Saigon ( the old name for Ho Chi Min ) I hope he is being a good boy, it has the reputation of being one of the most Amsterdammish places in the far east, if you know what I mean!!!!! After .all this rubbish you will gather that after the supreme effort put in last night, we don't have a lot more to say, but just sitting here on the computer typing a load of nonsense to you, it really does bring you very much closer.. I love you very much, both of you and am longing to see you. Counting the days!!! Hi Gael Believe it or not I am quite sober, but I'm not quite sure about these two.!! I hope you are making out our itinerary for the royal visit in March. I am really looking forward to these meals in the market, you make them sound terrific. I've not much more to add to the above missive except that being in the minority I'm having quite a job in keeping the flag flying on behalf of the male supremacy league. Never mind tell Dougie that I won't let the side down. Hope to here from you soon all the best love Dad & Hazel Malcolm * 1st 2.00 #5701 * "I drank WHAT?!" -Socrates ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:36:33 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Spherical Image Pixel Problem are you saying that you want the pixels to be plastered onto a globe -- a spherical picture?... yes, you can use either the "omnifrequenced" icosah., or you can use its dual (the hexagonal tesselation with 12 pentaga); further, you can use either one's vertices (those points approximating as the LEDs, or whatever) or its areas (a more realistical modelling of physical pixels -- or receptors, as in the fly's eye .-)... the coordination for scanning (as they say for TV) is a problem, although not very large, taken as a problem of just scanning a 2D surface, but that might not be too elegant! ----- A Fermatio-Gaussian Conjecture: F^+(2^N) + F^-(2^N) is prime, where F is the golden mean and N is 0,1,2... (it works for the first five .-) ----- On Palmtree BBS: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 12:01:36 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? >You should realize that associating 1 times 1 with a square and 1 times >1 times 1 with a cube is purely conventional: you are associating a picture, >i.e. a shape, with a mathematical operation. There is nothing more 'true' >or 'fundamental' about a unit-volume cube than a unit-volume, prime vector >edged tetrahedron. I agree with you that going back and forth between the >cubic and tetrahedral systems requires a conversion constant, but the fact >is that Bucky was positing synergetics on the basis of entirely different >definitions. No perfectly straight lines, no impermeable surfaces -- >these too are non-Euclidean versions of more familiar concepts. i have a feeling that it is possible to understand the past and how they got thier convention measurments by just dig more deep into history. it is not a misterious to understand the basis of mathematics becuse it is very human, they just had to calculate they had to divide the land ect, so Bucky when he review the history of numbers and other mathematical ideas he turn alwys to normal life activities. life starts with basic operations. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 10:37:35 LOCAL Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Stephen Harris Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? >>these too are non-Euclidean versions of more familiar concepts. > i have a feeling that it is possible to understand the past and > how they got thier convention measurments by just dig more deep > into history. it is not a misterious to understand the basis > of mathematics becuse it is very human, they just had to calculate > they had to divide the land ect, so Bucky when he review the > history of numbers and other mathematical ideas he turn alwys > to normal life activities. life starts with basic operations. > M.Tagdi You are right about the basic operations. Synergetics has a lot to do with complexity theory and randomness. There are more types of chaotic behavior found in nature than simpler predictable events. His mathematics describes how things work more at the quantum level which is very basic. The mathematics of a more classical nature which we are used to are approximations of basic operations, called local or practically useful. His non-local mathematics becomes necessary when approximations fail. Our standard mathematics is either inconsistent or incomplete. Stephen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 21:10:58 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Stacey Tyner Organization: Netcom Subject: Best geodesic manafacturers Hi, I am thinking about building a geodesic dome and wanted info on the best companies,interior walls,windows,fireplaces,etc. If any of you have experience in this area, please post here or email me at dbahuggums@aol.com or here. Thanks!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 09:11:01 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Best geodesic manafacturers In-Reply-To: <492o12$mau@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>; from "Stacey Tyner" at Nov 23, 95 9:10 pm Stacey Tyner writes: > > Hi, > I am thinking about building a geodesic dome and wanted info on the > best companies,interior walls,windows,fireplaces,etc. If any of you have > experience in this area, please post here or email me at > dbahuggums@aol.com or here. Thanks!!! > .- > Kirby Urner is keeping a list of dome manufacturere at his web site: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html To my mind, the "best" dome would be fireproof, rotproof, bugproof, self-contained, and portable. I don't think anything out there meets all those criteria, so far. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 11:52:43 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Best geodesic manafacturers >Stacey Tyner writes: >> >> Hi, >> I am thinking about building a geodesic dome and wanted info on the >> best companies,interior walls,windows,fireplaces,etc. If any of you have >> experience in this area, please post here or email me at >> dbahuggums@aol.com or here. Thanks!!! Joe >To my mind, the "best" dome would be fireproof, rotproof, bugproof, >self-contained, and portable. I don't think anything out there meets all >those criteria, so far. just a gusse, i think that the dome manafacturers have very little knowldge about materials, you need to use high technology and knowldge of material science to get the dome into mass production. no one have doen that yet. if you can build a very sophisticated airplane such as the poeing 737 i do not see any difficulty building a nice dome for mass production. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 12:19:03 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? In Message Thu, 23 Nov 1995 10:37:35 LOCAL, Stephen Harris writes: >>>these too are non-Euclidean versions of more familiar concepts. > >> i have a feeling that it is possible to understand the past and >> how they got thier convention measurments by just diging more deep >> into history. it is not misterious to understand the basis >> of mathematics becuse it is very human, they just had to calculate >> they had to divide the land; ect. so Bucky when he review the >> history of numbers and other mathematical ideas he turn alawys >> to normal life activities. life starts with basic operations. >> M.Tagdi > >You are right about the basic operations. Synergetics has a lot >to do with complexity theory and randomness. There are more >types of chaotic behavior found in nature than simpler predictable >events. His mathematics describes how things work more at the >quantum level which is very basic. The mathematics of a more >classical nature which we are used to are approximations of >basic operations, called local or practically useful. His non-local >mathematics becomes necessary when approximations fail. >Our standard mathematics is either inconsistent or incomplete. > >Stephen can you say somthing about what do you mean by local and nonlocal? though i can't say it my feeling that there is break in our thinking, a gap becuse of the way they thought us in schools and specially mathmatics i would think that 99 out of 100 teacher are just parating what they thought them beliving nothing, they might exagerate there experience and post about it but it leads nowhere. it seems that to learn mathematics you really get to be pushed out of reality. it is enjoyable mess and specially beginig student in the unvirsities they think they are going to reach the ultimate reality in their last year, and what happern they just end up being on a curve. trying to get the most pleasure out of things they do not belive. there are a lot of books coming out now days which trying to sucle some honey by trying to fit the equasions to reality this demonstrate that they are holding to the last branch to save themselves. my opinion comes from my expreience in highschool first and second year calculus, trigonometry in highschool. few people i know who have Phd in mathematics and glossing through quite few books. intutively synergetics suits me. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 02:09:39 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Versatile Numbers/Part I [revised] NOTE: As numbers have application in a wide variety of fields, I am posting this article to various News Groups on the Internet even though it may not have direct significance to your group. If you take the time to read the article, you'll find implications for astronomy, economics, sociology, history, psychology, space science as well as other fields. Any comments from members of this particular newsgroup are appreciated. However, since I don't have the time to read all the various newsgroups, please e-mail me your comments. W.G.L. Note to geodesic newsgroup: Thanks for any coments any of you might have had to the last version. As to what I think of Scheherazade Numbers: These are numbers that attempt to accomodate as many prime numbers as possible. (For example 1x2x3x5x7x11x13=30030) What I call Versatile Numbers attempt to accomodate as many NUMBERS of any kind as possible (but in a slightly different way.) For example 30030 has 64 factors (or divisors, or ways that it could be evenly shared). The closest versatile number to it is 27720 which has 96 factors, or ways that it could be evenly shared. We can go all the way down to the versatile number 7560 to find a number that has 64 factors. Notice also the symmetry of the versatile numbers. They have just as remarkable a symmetry as Scheherazade numbers. (See part III for a table of versatile numbers.) To give an easy example: 1x2x3x5=30. This Scheherazade number accomodates the first four primes, but only can be divided evenly by 8 numbers (1,2,3,5,6,10,15,30) The Versatile number 24, a smaller number, also can be divided evenly by 8 numbers (1,2,3,4,6,8,12,24). I think its safe to conclude that a Versatile number of about the same size as a Scheherazade number, can accomodate, without the use of fractions, more numbers. VERSATILE NUMBERS Part I by William Gunther Lauritzen If we compare the number 12 with the number 14, along the lines of addition, we see that the the number of ways to split the numbers into two integer parts is generally determined by the size of the number. In other words, 14 can be written as 1+ 13, 2 + 12, 3 + 11, 4 + 10, 5 + 9, 6 + 8, and 7+7. Whereas 12 can be written only as 1 + 11, 2 + 10, 3 + 9, 4 + 8, 5 + 7, and 6 + 6. If we were to express 12 and 14 as the products of two numbers rather than the sums of two numbers, an entirely different story emerges. Fourteen can be written as 1 x 14 and 2 x 7 only. Twelve can be written as 1 x 12, 2 x 6, and 3 x 4. The smaller number can be split in more ways. We say 14 has four "divisors" or "factors," while 12 has six. (Iin this article "divisors and "factors" can be considered to have the same meaning. I use the word older term "divisors" rather than "factors" in this article as, for my purposes, it communicates better.) Here's a sample divisor table: number divisors number of divisors 1 1x1 1 2 1x2 2 3 1x3 2 4 1x4, 2x2 3 5 1x5 2 6 1x6, 2x3 4 7 1x7 2 8 1x8, 2x4 4 9 1x9, 3x3 3 10 1x10 2x5 4 11 1x11 2 12 1x12, 2x6, 3x4 6 I am very interested in numbers with relatively large numbers of divisors, as these numbers have a great deal of social usefulness. They can be applied in business, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 02:56:32 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Versatile Numbers/part II Versatile Numbers: Part II by William Gunther Lauritzen Richard Friedberg, in 1968, (in the book An Adventurer's Guide to Number Theory) implied that Pythagorus, around 600 BC, knew these three classes. Friedberg also suggested that these classes developed because the Egyptians never wrote fractions such as 11/12. Instead they would write it as 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/12, never putting anything but a "1" in the numerator. Also they never used the same denominator more than once. As a result, all the perfect numbers can be split up "perfectly." Six can be split into 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/6 or 6/6. However, 10 can be split up only into 1/5 + 1/2 or 7/10. It's a "deficient" number. Twelve can be split up into 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 or 14/12. Twelve is "abundant." If Frieberg was correct, since we don't use Egyptian fractions anymore, these numbers and their names are an anachronism. I would suggest the name "factor sum" instead of "perfect number." In our OWN number system, using OUR fractions, perfect numbers are not so perfect. I must say I don't like the name "abundant number." To the uninitiated, it implies simply a large number. I believe "antiprime" or "versatile" to be much more descriptive. I call these "abundant" numbers "flexible" numbers. Continuing my library search, I located an astonishing article published in 1915 (Proceedings of the London Mathematical Society, Vol 14) in which the noted Indian mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan analyzes what he calls "Highly Composite Numbers." Although Ramanujan studied mathematics extensively in India, his only exposure to modern European mathematics (of his time) was one book on mathematics. He single-handedly re-derived much of modern (1915) mathematics (and a good deal more) by himself. His story was a fascinating but tragic one. Here's his definition of a "highly composite number": "I define a highly composite number as a number whose number of divisors exceed that of all its predecessors." This class of number is exactly what I call a versatile number. (In mathematical language: the number n is called highly composite if d(m) < d(n) for all m < n where d(n) is the number of divisors of n.) The term "highly composite" is descriptive to someone trained in mathematics, however, I believe the terms "versatile" and "antiprime" are more descriptive, and should be used in order to communicate to the largest number of people the character and usefuless of these kinds of numbers. Ramanujan was always looking for new ways to do things. He may not have known of the traditional mathematical paradigm (of abundant, perfect, and deficient numbers). Or if he did, he decided to explore on his own, and discovered and classified "highly composite" numbers. As he said in his now somewhat famous letter to England in 1913, "I have not trodden through the conventional regular course which is followed in a University course, but am striking out a new path for myself." Let me give you some idea of the magnitude of his mathematical genius. With the help of a computer that calculated all night, I had determined the first 30 versatiles up to 110 880 (144 divisors). Without the use of a computer, Ramanujan had calculated all the versatiles up to 6 746 328 388 800 (10 080 factors)! I was dumbfounded. I quickly looked through his table to see if there were any more domi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 03:45:08 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Versatile Numbers/part III (Table) The following are the first Versatile Numbers Versatile Number: A number that has a greater number of divisors than any number smaller than itself. Number Number of Divisors 1 1 2 2 4 3 6 4 12 6 24 8 36 9 48 10 60 12 120 16 180 18 240 20 360 24 720 30 840 32 1260 36 1680 40 2520 48 5040 60 7560 64 10080 72 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 08:11:11 -0800 Reply-To: ud501@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Denis F. Blue" Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? KU: "Bucky said the Greeks were probably prejudiced against tetrahedral measuring cups because they're tippy and would spill their contents easily. " What? no one's yet pounced on that Urner fellow for his "tippy" aspersion on the good reputation of the tetrahedron. . Everyone must have overlooked this oversight as a small token of our appreciation for all Kirby's fine work on this List. Of course, the tet's the *least* tippable of any structure. All other factors being equal , the more vertices there are , the more spherical the form, the more rollable- tippable - the structure is.Since the tet is the least spherical of any regular structure, it is the least rollable--assuming the tet is lying on a face and not propped up of one of its four vertices. That's why, as Fuller pointed out, the tet has been used as the shape for anti-tank devices and the like. -- ### ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 09:40:26 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Best geodesic manafacturers Comments: To: dbahuggums@aol.com In-Reply-To: <9511250756.AA24275@newsbf02.news.aol.com>; from "dbahuggums@aol.com" at Nov 25, 95 2:56 am See the list of dome manufs at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html A dome is the most efficient way to enclose space. What goes inside it is another story. No one has yet built Fuller's "dream" dome. See _Critical Path_, pages 310-15. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 19:16:38 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? As for "tippy tetrahedrons" - Yes, Kirby meant a face-up tetra. Otherwise, you would have to lop off the top to fill it. The bulk of the confusion generated by this volume discussion was the initial failure of all of us to identify our units. I think it is best to try to use the term tetravolumes when discussing relative geodesic volumes, since the DVC can be unwieldy. However, I will suggest a defense of Descartes. Recently it was asked on the physics newsgroup, "Why 3 dimensions? Why not more or less?" I invoked Bucky's memory in answering that 3 were all that were necessary to define space and nature is always efficient. I think the cubic volume concept is a logical "inside-outing" of the x-y-z axes. Tetrahedra are wonderful things. But they don't close-pack to fill allspace - so it is best not to use them as volume references except in the case of relative geodesic comparisons. Finally, a mea culpa: as James Fischer suggested, complete accuracy is an elusive quality. After mailing a Synergetic Atomic Model packet to Australia, I decided to get with the program and put the SAM entirely on computer. While doing so, I came across some minor algebraic errors in the internal vector diagrams for the quanta modules. (If I could add and subtract, I'd be dangerous) I'll e-mail corrections to those who received packets with errors. I posted some of the numbers here, so if anyone saved them - toss 'em. None of the errors were of sufficient magnitude to change the model. Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 15:51:35 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Futhey Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? Steven L Combs wrote: *snip* > However, I will suggest a defense of Descartes. *big snip* I can not resist sharing this Descartes joke. Decartes went into a restaurant for dinner. The waiter, and after taking his order, asked, "And would you like wine with your meal sir?" Decartes replied, "I think not", and disappeared. John > Sincerely, > Steven Combs > Syncorswim, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 17:30:57 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: DOME MANUF 11-25-95 Comments: cc: dbahuggums@aol.com GEODESIC DOME MANUFACTURERS by Joe S. Moore Revised Nov 25, 1995 (If you note any additions, deletions and/or errors please update & repost) Allard Engineering OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1984 32-T Hollenbeck Ave ? Email: Great Barrington, MA 01260 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Aluminum Geodesic Spheres (AGS) Verified: Jul 1994 4019 West Park Road Edwin O'Toole Email: Hollywood, FL 33021 Tel: 305-625-9436 Fax: American Geodesics, Inc. Verified: ___ 1978 2001 Outer Hammond St. ? Email: Bangor, ME 04401 Tel: Fax: American Ingenuity, Inc Verified: Oct 1995 3500 Harlock Road Mike & G. Busick Email: Melbourne, FL 32934 Tel: 407-254-4220 Fax: 407-254-9283 Planning Kit $10; Video $8; EPS Foam covered w/concrete Shells Antennas for Communications, Inc Verified: Aug 1995 350 Cypress Road Ron Posner Email: rposner@ocala.com Ocala, FL 32672 Tel: 904-687-4121 Fax: 904-687-1203 Radomes ArkaTents Verified: Nov 1995 3856 Highway 88 East ? Email: 74353.2767@compuserve.com Mena, AR 71953 Tel:800-842-8338; 810-989-9500 Fax: Dome tents; http://www.homepage.com/mall/arkatent/ Big Outdoors People, Inc, The OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1984 2201 N.E.Kennedy St. Dennis H. Kelly Email: Minneapolis, MN 55413 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Bretcod Geodesic Domes Verified: Oct 1993 27 Allawah Street ? Email: Blacktown, New S.Wales, Australia Tel: 02-621-7952 Fax: Busch Industries, Inc Verified: ___ 1993 900 E. Paris Ave, S.E., Suite 304 ? Email: Grand Rapids, MI Tel: Fax: Cadco of New York State, Inc. Verified: ___ 1973 P.O.Box 874 ? Email: Plattsburgh, NY 12901 Tel: Fax: Plywood dome kits California Domes Verified: Jul 1994 P.O.Box 1047 Ralph Stevens Email: Middletown, CA 95461 Tel: 707-987-3511 Fax: Canadome Verified: ___ 1973 7651 Avenue de la Seine ? Email: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Tel: Fax: Tent domes Cascade Domes Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 1977 ? Email: Florence, OR 97439 Tel: Fax: Dome Kits, Aluminum frames; $12 for catalog Cathedralite Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 1105 Tate Miller Email: Medford, OR 97501 Tel: 503-772-3356 Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Central Coating Co. Verified: ___ 19?? 29009 Avenue 16 ? Email: Madera, CA 93637 Tel: Fax: Conservatek, Inc Verified: ___ 1984 P.O.Box 1678 ? Email: Conroe, TX 77305 Tel: 409-539-1747 Fax: Aluminum domes Corrugated Domes Name changed to Icosa Domes, Inc Verified: ___ 19?? 31 Vendola Drive ? Email: San Rafael, CA 94930 Tel: 415-472-1975 Fax: Creative Structures, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1978 P.O.Box 143 ? Email: Alto, NM 88312 Tel: Fax: Daystar Shelter Corp. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 22509 Cedar Drive, NW ? Email: Bethel, MN 55006 Tel: 612-753-4981 Fax: DoMaine OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1977 P.O.Box 55 ? Email: Mount Desert, ME 04660 Tel: Fax: DomeBuilders Co. Verified: ___ 1973 P.O.Box 4811 Robert Easton Email: Santa Barbara, CA 93103 Tel: Fax: Dome kits Dome Company, The Verified: Oct 1993 P.O.Box 3043 Rob Lusher Email: Nth Nowra, New S.Wales, Australia 2541 Tel: 044-460452 Fax: Dome Creations OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 211 East Maulding Michael L. Pronow Email: Las Vegas, NV 89119 Tel: 702-387-6311 Fax: Dome East Corp. SEE SPACE STRUCTURES INTERNATIONAL Verified: ___ 19?? 325 Duffy Ave. ? Email: Hicksville, NY 11801 Tel: 516-938-0545 Fax: Dome Enterprises, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 414 Simonton St Lyn Kephart Email: Key West, FL 33040 Tel: 305-294-8719 Fax: Dome Home Systems, Inc. Changed to Dome Kits Int'l Verified: Jul 1994 Lakeshore Road K. Parry Harding Email: Reedsburg, WI 53939 Tel: 608-524-4555 Fax: Dome Kits International Verified: Jul 1994 Lakeshore Road K. Parry Harding Email: Reedsburg, WI 53939 Tel: Fax: Dome Technology Co. Verified: Oct 1995 3007 E. 49th St ? Email: N. Idaho Falls, ID 83401 Tel: 208-529-0833 Fax: 208-529-0854 Concrete http://www.netib.com/manufacturing/dome/page1.html Domes America, Inc OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 6345 West Jolie Road T.Deery & R.Casey Email: Countryside, IL 60525 Tel: 708-579-9400 Fax: Domes/Geodyssey Corp. Verified: ___ 1978 P.O.Box 206 ? Email: Amherst, WI 55406 Tel: Fax: Domes and Homes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 365 ? Email: Brielle, NJ 08730 Tel: Fax: Wood strut & plywood Skin Domes Diversified Verified: Jul 1989 4840 Comanche Trail Jonathan Beidelman Email: Prescott, AZ 86301 Tel: 602-445-1212 Fax: Domes, Inc Verified: ___ 1984 P.O.Drawer 5759 ? Email: Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Tel: 415-934-9121 Fax: Domes of Sonoma Verified: ___ 19?? 5212 Old Redwood Highway ? Email: Santa Rosa, CA 95401 Tel: Fax: Domespace Co. Verified: Oct 1995 510 East 80th St, Suite 5-B ? http://www.branch.com/dome/dome.html New York, NY 10021 Tel:212-517-7920 Fax: 212-861-9793 Wood DomEstic Designs Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 4203 ? Email: Bellevue, WA 98009 Tel: Fax: Dome West Verified: Sep 1984 181 Pier Avenue George Madarasy Santa Monica, CA 90405 Tel: Fax: Custom domes Domicile Kit Co. Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 594 ? Email: Mendocino, CA 95460 Tel: Fax: Dura Dome of Colorado, Inc OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1977 890 Laurel St. ? Email: Boulder, CO 80303 Tel: Fax: Plastic Dyna-Dome OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1977 22226 North 23rd Ave. ? Email: Phoenix, AZ 85207 Tel: Fax: Hub connector kits only Earth Dynamics, Inc. Verified: ___ 1978 P.O.Box 1175 ? Email: Boulder, CO 80302 Tel: Fax: Earthwhile Verified: Jul 1994 4209 Maxwell Road David Falasco Email: Colorado Springs, CO 80909 Tel: 719-596-5337 Fax: EMOD, Inc Verified: Jan 1993 209 Willow Ave, #4-E ? Email: Hoboken, NJ 07030 Tel: 201-792-6831 Fax: Plastic Fly's Eye playhouse Enchanted West, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 ___________________ ? Email: mclark@scf.nmsu.edu ___________________ Tel: Fax: Fiberglass panel domes Energy Structures, Inc. Verified: Jul 1994 893 Wilson Avenue J. & Kevin Frawley Email: St.Paul, MN 55106 Tel: 800-334-8144 Fax: 612-772-1207 Homes, Cabins & Commercial Domes Envirotecture Verified: ___ 19?? 134 N. Ojai ? Email: Santa Paula, CA _____ Tel: Fax: Envisioneering Verified: Oct 1995 _____?________ Richard Lalonde E-Mail:envision@ottawa.net _________?___________ Tel: Fax: Triodetic components; domes, trusses, etc. http://www.ottawa.net/~envision/ Expo Domes International OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 575, 608 Hwy-110 N. Juergen Buche Email: Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 214-839-7228 Fax: Fiberdome Verified: ___ 1984 P.O.Box 11, 202 Sandy Beach Ave. ? Email: Lake Mills, WI 53551 Tel: 414-648-8376 Fax: Fiberglass Free Form Homes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 808 Tate Miller Email: Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-476-8299 Fax: Free Space Geodesics OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: Mar 1976 7094 N.Harrison, Suite 165 D. Wind & L. Lore Email: Pinedale, CA 93650 Tel: 209-431-8670 Fax: Geo-Built Tent Rentals Verified: Jul 1994 1420 Kiser Lake Road Charles E. Leet Email: St. Paris, OH 43072 Tel: 513-663-5017 Fax: Geodesic tents Geodesic Dome Homes Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 40206, Dept. 191 ? Email: Santa Barbara, CA 93103 Tel: Fax: Geodesic Domes and Homes (see Expo Domes Int'l) Verified: ___ 1994 608 Highway 110 North Ray Howard Email: North Whitehouse, TX 75791 Tel: 903-839-2000 Fax: Info packet $12 Geodesic Domes, Inc. (GDI) Verified: Oct 1990 10290 Davison Road Carlos L.McCarter Email: Davison, MI 48423 Tel: 313-653-2383 Fax: Brochure $8; Prefab plywood kits (originally developed by Pease Woodwork Co.) Geodesic Homes Verified: ___ 1978 P.O.Box 1675 ? Email: Bailey, CO 80421 Tel: Fax: Geodesic Services OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 6548 ? Email: Bellevue, WA 98007 Tel: Fax: Geodesic Shelters OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 487 ? Email: Calabasas, CA 91302 Tel: 714-962-4780 Fax: Fiberglass domes (see Scandia Enterprises, Inc) Geodesic Structures, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1977 P.O.Box 176 ? Email: Roosevelt, NJ 08555 Tel: 609-443-4440 Fax: Wood frame and plywood GeoDomes Woodworks Verified: Jul 1994 6876 Indiana Avenue, Suite L Davies & Van Doren Email: Riverside, CA 92514 Tel: 909-787-8800 Fax: 909-787-7089 Home Planning Guide $15; Wood kits starting at $10,000 Geoshelter Domes OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 1303 Talbott Circle Kenneth Yolman Email: Avon Park, FL 33825 Tel: Fax: Residential dome kits Growing Spaces, Inc. Verified: Oct 1995 P.O.Box 7052 Michael Rader E-Mail: michael@dnaco.net Aspen, CO 81611 Tel: 800-753-9333; 303-923-5713 Fax: Greenhouses http://www.dnaco.net/~michael/growing-spaces/growing-dome.html Hexadome of America, Inc. Verified: Jul 1994 P.O. Box 2351 Gene Hopster Email: La Mesa, CA 91943 Tel: Fax: Free Video; Wood kits Hasey Company, Inc. (The) Verified: ___ 1978 447 North Main Street ? Email: Old Town, ME 04468 Tel: Fax: Hexadome of Alabama Verified: Jul 1994 2509 Gatepost Circle ? Email: Birmingham, AL 35214 Tel: Fax: Icosa Domes, Inc OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: Feb 1979 31 Vendola Drive Steve Elias Email: San Rafael, CA 94903 Tel: 415-479-2030 Fax: Corrugated paperboard domes Intergalactic Tool Co. Verified: ___ 1973 1601 Haight Street ? Email: San Francisco, CA 94117 Tel: Fax: Portable tent domes J and D Solar Products Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 469 ? Email: Carver, MA 02330 Tel: Fax: Fiberglass greenhouses Key Dome Verified: Apr 1995 P.O. Box 430253 Peter Vanderklaaw Email: Miami, FL 33143 Tel: 305-665-3541 Fax: 305-667-1256 Dome plans/blueprints $54 to $200;Plywood panels & EPS foam w/concrete shell KingDomes Verified: Jun 1995 P.O. Box 427980 E. Thorstein http://www.mmedia.is/kingdome Houston, TX 77098 Tel: Fax: EDC Booklet $30 (European design, 163 solutions, kits, math) Kyner Shelters Verified: Aug 1993 6404 Sunburst Lane, Box 381 ? Email: Cashmere, WA 98815 Tel: Fax: Portable dome shelters La Selva Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 105 La Selva Dr. ? Email: La Selva Beach, CA 95076 Tel: 408-688-5050 Fax: Dome shell kits Liberty Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 7270 Sundale Drive ? Email: Tujunga, CA 91042 Tel: Fax: Gazebos, lath houses Living Spaces, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 23 Humiston Brook Road Don Kowalski Email: Plantsville, CT 06479 Tel: 203-621-6361 Fax: Lundahl Scientific Verified: Oct 1995 ________?_________ ? E-Mail: que@srv.net Idaho Falls, ID 83401 Tel: Fax: http://snake.srv.net/~que/index.html MERO Structures, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 N112 W18810 Mequon Rd., P.O.Box 610 ? Email: Germantown, WI _____ Tel: Fax: M.L.D. Construction Verified: Jul 1994 P.O.Box 4173 ? Email: Sonora, CA 95370 Tel: 209-533-3663 Fax: Monolithic Constructors, Inc. Verified: May 1995 P.O. Box 479 ? Email: Italy, TX 76651 Tel: 214-483-7423; 800-608-0001 Fax: 214-483-6662 $20 Video; Free brochure; Concrete Domes Monterey Domes SEE GEODOMES WOODWORKS Verified: Sep 1990 1760 Chicago Ave. Gunther & Robinson Email: Riverside, CA 92517 Tel: 800-321-2244 Fax: Wood strut & plywood skin Tel: 800-336-4455 in Ca Mother Lode Dome Homes OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 874 ? Email: Twain Harte, CA 95383 Tel: Fax: Moulded Fiberglass Concrete Forms Co. (MFG) Verified: ___ 19?? P.O.Box 675 ? Email: Ashtabula, OH 44004 Tel: Fax: Multi-Domes International OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 200 Warren Ave. ? Email: Fremont, CA 94538 Tel: 408-656-3672 Fax: Greenhouses Nation's Hoop Carpenters Verified: Jul 1994 P.O. Box 45 Steven J. Kennedy Email: Boyertown, PA 19512 Tel: 215-870-9443 Fax: Metal, wood & cement domes Natural Habitat Domes of Alaska OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 2249 Louis D. Harter Email: Palmer, AK 99645 Tel: 907-745-5464 Fax: Natural Spaces Verified: May 1995 37955 Bridge Road, D. & J. Johnson Email: North Branch, MN 55056 Tel: 800-733-7107 Fax: "All About Domes" $3; Video; Wood kits; Dome building classes North Face, The Verified: ___ 1985 999 Harrison Court Klopp & Hamilton Email: Berkeley, CA 94710 Tel: 415-527-9700 Fax: Geodesic Tents Oregon Dome, Inc. Verified: Jul 1994 3215 Meadow Lane Roger & Lyn Boothe Email: Eugene, OR 97402 Tel: 503-689-3443 Fax: $12 for catalog Pacific Dome Systems Verified: Jul 1994 9120 Pike Place, S.E. Chuck & Di Mayhew Email: Port Orchard, WA 98366 Tel: 206-876-4536 Fax: Parabam, Inc. Verified: ___ 19?? 3017 Las Hermanas ? Email: Los Angeles, CA _____ Tel: Fax: Pierce Structures Verified: ___ 1993 9144 Deering Ave, Dept. A Chatsworth, CA _____ Tel: Fax: Play Works OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1988 P.O.Box 367 Nelson Van Juda Email: Menlo Park, CA 94025 Tel: 415-851-8757 Fax: Dome and octet truss climbers Polydome Verified: ___ 1992 3020 North Park Way ? Email: San Diego, CA 92104 Tel: 714-574-1400 Fax: Pond-Brook Products Verified: ___ 19?? P.O. Box 301 Gladys Payne Email: Franklin Lakes, NJ 07412 Tel: Fax: Hexa-Pent Dome Plans $20 Precision Structures Verified: Jan 1990 2566 Potter Street ? Email: Eugene, OR 97405 Tel: Fax: $35 for book; "Professional Dome Plans"; See Mother Earth News, 1-90 Redwood Domes OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1980 _____________ ? Email: Aptos, CA 95003 Tel: Fax: Greenhouse kits Rigging International Verified: ___ 1984 P.O. Drawer 12066 Barry Sgarrella Email: Oakland, CA 94604 Tel: 415-465-9300 Fax: Bulk storage domes Scandia Enterprises, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS Verified: ___ 1985 2135 Canyon Drive John C. Warren Email: Costa Mesa, CA 92627 Tel: 714-548-9333 Fax: Fiberglass greenhouses and temporary shelters (see Geodesic Shelters, Inc.) Schaeffer Domes Verified: Jul 1994 129 Lawrenceville Road James & Bernard Email: Rosendale, NY 12472 Tel: 914-658-8753 Fax: Semispheres Verified: ___ 1985 1505 Webster Street ? Email: Richmond, VA 23220 Tel: 804-643-3184 Fax: Shelter Construction & Development, Ltd. Verified: ___ 1978 Rural Route #1 ? Email: Glencairn, Ontario, Canada L0M1K0 Tel: Fax: Shelter Systems Verified: Oct 1995 P.O. Box 1294 Bob Gillis Email: Capitola, CA 95010 Tel: 408-457-1153 Fax: Send $1 for info; Large dome tents, greenhouses, etc. Southern Domes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 18606 ? Email: Pensacola, FL 32523 Tel: 904-474-0084 Fax: Space Frames, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 1823 North 32nd Ave. ? Email: Stone Park, IL _____ Tel: Fax: Space Structures International OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1984 155-A Dupont St. ? Email: Plainview, NY 11803 Tel: 516-938-0545 Fax: Formerly Dome East Spitz Space Systems, Inc. Verified: ___ 1984 P.O.Box 198 ? Email: Chadds Ford, PA _____ Tel: Fax: Stardome See Shelter Systems Verified: ___ 1995 P.O.Box 880 Bob Gillis Email: Aptos, CA 95003 Tel: 408-728-2911 Fax: Greenhouses Starnet Structures, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 106 Bell Street ? Email: West Babylon, NY _____ Tel: Fax: Stromberg's Chicks & Gamebirds Verified: ___ 1995 P.O. Box 400 Stromberg Email: Pine River, 4, MN 56474 Tel: 218-587-2222 Fax: $40 for Starplate struts to build a dome shed/greenhouse up to 14' diam Synapse Domes, Inc. OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 P.O.Box 554 D.Scott Simms Email: Lander, WY 82520 Tel: 307-332-5733 Fax: Tel: 307-332-4117 Synestructics, Inc. Verified: ___ 1980 9400 Lurline Avenue Peter Pearce Email: Chatsworth, CA 91311 Tel: Fax: System Resources Co., Inc. Verified: ___ 1984 30-T Manning Rd. ? Email: Billerica, MA 01821 Tel: 617-272-5772 Fax: Radomes Temcor Verified: ___ 1993 24724 S. Wilmington Ave. ? Email: Carson, CA _____ Tel: 213-320-0554 Fax: Large aluminum commercial domes Tensegrity International, Inc. Verified: Dec 1987 151 N. Alvarado Ave. Gwilliam & Rus Chu Email: Ojai, CA 93023 Tel: 805-646-2421 Fax: 805-646-7498 Tension Structures, Inc. Verified: ___ 1978 9800 Ann Arbor Road ? Email: Plymouth, MI 48170 Tel: Fax: Timberline Geodesics Verified: Jun 1995 2015 Blake Street Robert M. Singer Email: TLineDomes@aol.com Berkeley, CA 94704 Tel: 800-DOME-HOME Fax: 510-849-3265 Wood strut & plywood skin; Catalog $12; Video $15; Wood kits Tobel Domes Verified: Jul 1994 15249 Golda Odessa Lane Tom Boyle Email: Lakeside, CA 92040 Tel: 619-443-6503 Fax: Topsider Homes Verified: ___ 1994 P.O. Box 848 ? Email: Yadkinville, NC 27055 Tel: 910-766-9300 Fax: Round homes, not domes Triadome, Inc. Verified: ___ 1973 P.O.Box 548 ? Email: Boulder, CO 80302 Tel: Fax: Icosa play domes Triodetic Building Products Ltd. Verified: ___ 19?? 2753 fenton Rd. ? Email: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA K1G3N3 Tel: 613-822-2922 Fax: Unistrut Spaceframe Systems, Inc. Verified: ___ 1993 450 Geddes Road ? Email: Canton, MI _____ Tel: Fax: U.S.Domes, Inc. Verified: ___ 1981 830 Matsonford Rd. ? Email: West Conshohocken, PA 19428 Tel: 215-825-6181 Fax: U.S.Geodesics OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 900 Matsonford Road John M.Resheter Email: West Conshohocken, PA 19428 Tel: 215-825-6181 Fax: Western Hemisphere, Ltd. Verified: ___ 1978 P113 Rush Street ? Email: Fort Worth, TX 76116 Tel: Fax: World Shelters OUT OF BUSINESS? Verified: ___ 1985 58 Serra Way Richard Stone Email: San Rafael, CA 94903 Tel: 415-492-0645 Fax: See Icosa Domes ? For further information see: Thomas Register of American Manufacturers Verified: ___ 1994 One Penn Plaza ? Email: http://www.thomasregister.com/ New York, NY 10001 Tel: 212-695-0500 Fax: See Volumes 1-10: Products & Services (in most libraries) National Association of Dome Manufacturers Verified: Jul 1994 2506 Gross Point Road ? Email: Evanston, IL 60201 Tel: Fax: Merged with Nat'l Assn. of Home Builders National Dome Council Verified: ___19?? 15th & "M" Streets, NW ? Email: Washington, DC 20005 Tel: 202-822-0576 Fax: DOME (magazine) Verified: Jul 1994 4401 Zepher Street Donald R. Hoflin Email: donh@hoflin.com Wheat Ridge, CO 80033 Tel: 303-934-5656 Fax: Quarterly; $40/yr; excellent -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 21:54:45 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: ST.JOHN DIVINE EVENT "CONTEMPORARY DEVELOPMENTS IN DESIGN SCIENCE" Exhibition Nov 9-10, 1995 at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, New York, NY PARTICIPANTS IN THE EXHIBITION Aoyama, Steve Aston, Mark Atake, Katsuhito Baer, Steve Banchoff, Thomas Baracs, Janos Berger, Horst Bini, Dante Brisson, David (the late) Brisson, Harriet Burt, Michael Calatrava, Santiago Clinton, Joe Connelly, Robert Conway, John Coxeter, H.S.M. Critchlow, Keith Dalland, Todd Donchian, Paul (the late) Emmerich, David Georges Escrig, Felix Ferguson, Helaman Foster, Norman Freed, James Friedman, Yona Fuller, Buckminster (the late) Gabriel, Francois Geiger, David (the late) Giorgini, Vittorio Goldsmith, Nicholas Gunn, Charles Happold, Edmund Harrison, Steve Hizume, Akio Hoberman, Chuck Hopkins, Michael Huff, William Huybers, Pieter Johansen, John Kajikawa, Yasushi Katavolos, William Katsuhito, Atake Kawaguci, Mamoru Kirschenbaum, Bernie Klug, Aron Kostick, John Kroto, Harry Laban, Rudolf von (the late) Lavlani, Haresh Levy, Matthys Loeb, Arthur MacKay, Alan Miyazaki, Koji Motro, Rene N.A.S.A., Langley Noguchi, Isamu (the late) Nooshin, Hoshyar Ogawa, Tohru Pearce, Peter Jon Pellegrino, Sergio Perry, Charles Pinero, Emilio (the late) Quimby, Stewart/Kittner, Cary Rasch, Bodo Schoen, Alan Schwabe, Casper Slater, G.W. Smalley, Richard Tarnai, Tibor Tyng, Anne Verheyen, Hugo Weaire, Denis/Phelan, R. Wenninger, Magnus Wester, Ture Wiggs, Robert Wysocki, Stanley MEMBERS OF THE EXHIBITION COMMITTEE Dalland, Todd DeSanto, Samuel Johnson, Philip Krens, Thomas Morton, James Parks Piel, Gerard Sadao, Shoji Schutte, Thomas Snyder, Alegra Fuller Snyder, Alexandra Fuller Wester, Ture MEMBERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL ADVISORY BOARD Baracs, Janos Burt, Michael Calatrava, Santiago Candela, Felix Coxeter, H. S. M. Critchlow, Kieth Emmerich, David Georges Foster, Norman Giorgini, Vittorio Huff, William Johansen, John Katavolos, William Loeb, Arthur Miyazaki, Koji Nooshin, Hoshyar Pearce, Peter Jon Tyng, Ann Wachman, Avraham COORDINATORS Pratt Institute Buckminster Fuller Institute Cathedral of St.John the Divine SPONSORS Grant from the Innovative Design Fund at Community Funds, Inc. Financial & in-kind support from: * Edward Larrabee and Mary Barnes * Birdair Inc. * FTL/Happold * Fuller & Sado, P. C. * Hardy Holzman Pfeifer Associates * The Isamu Noguchi Foundation Inc. * Philip Johnson Architects * Nippon Television International Corp. * The Museum of Modern Art * Polshek & Partners Architects * The Yomiuri Land Inc. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 14:30:02 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? In Message Sat, 25 Nov 1995 15:51:35 -0800, John Futhey writes: >Steven L Combs wrote: > *snip* > >> However, I will suggest a defense of Descartes. *big snip* > >I can not resist sharing this Descartes joke. > >Decartes went into a restaurant for dinner. The waiter, and after taking his order, asked, >"And would you like wine with your meal sir?" > >Decartes replied, "I think not", and disappeared. > >John i got your jock cut could you send it again. there was a man who went to the resturant, order a big meal with soup and befor he ate the soup completly he puts a dead mouse in it; calls the waiter and get away without paying. one day a friend of his asked him if he had a mouse becuse he was hungry He replied sorry i only have a cocroch for tea. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 15:37:17 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? a poem- a dosage of new vocabluary tetrahedron octohedron tetrahedron octohedron tetrahedron octohedron tetrahedron octoheeron comprhensive coordination comprhensive coordination icosahedrom rombic dodachedron icosaheron rombic dodachedron icosahedron rombic dodachedron sailing with the wind tetraheron icosahedron icosaheron tetrahedron octahedron rombic dodachedron rombic dodachedron octahedron icosahedron octahedron icosahedron victor equilbruim icosahedron victor equilbruim one tetra pluse 4 one eight of octa equal one cube tetra tetra tetra tra tra tra ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 15:47:32 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? I> However, I will suggest a defense of Descartes. Recently it was >asked on the physics newsgroup, "Why 3 dimensions? Why not more or less?" >I invoked Bucky's memory in answering that 3 were all that were necessary >to define space and nature is always efficient. I think the cubic volume >concept is a logical "inside-outing" of the x-y-z axes. i thought Fuller starts with 4 dimensions, they asked for more dimesnion and you gave them 3, little buzzeling. > Tetrahedra are wonderful things. But they don't close-pack to fill >allspace - so it is best not to use them as volume references except in >the case of relative geodesic comparisons. but with there complmantary octahedron they fill space, anyway do they use space filling in physics. i think the discussion about the tetrahdron volume is very important so if there is confusion it is important confusion. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 15:55:02 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: movment the sun orbital velocity = 220 km/ second if this one is correct that is a lot of movment does anyone know if it is a second or a minute 44.8 million white workers (office) in 1980 in the U.S 29.8 = blue s = smokstaker workers 8% agriculture 2% U.s 60 sea ports recieves and export to 600 ports around the glob 13 or 20 are primary. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 07:25:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Futhey Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: > >> However, I will suggest a defense of Descartes. *big snip* > > > >I can not resist sharing this Descartes joke. > > > >Decartes went into a restaurant for dinner. The waiter, after taking his o > rder, asked, > >"And would you like wine with your meal sir?" > > > >Decartes replied, "I think not", and disappeared. > > > >John > i got your jock cut could you send it again. > Tagdi Tagdi, the joke is not cut, it's all there. Think of Descartes the philosopher, not Descartes the mathmetician. If you still don't get it, let me know, and I'll give you another hint. John ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 11:22:54 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? At 07:25 AM 11/26/95 -0800, you wrote: >Tagdi, the joke is not cut, it's all there. Think of Descartes the philosopher, > not >Descartes the mathmetician. If you still don't get it, let me know, and I'll gi >ve you >another hint. > >John Dear Group, As a new member who has been lurking, may I just say that the joke is good and there is a valuable lesson too. Anyone can think....the trick is not to think...easy to say, not so easy to do. Thanks for all the insight from a real estate developer with little mathematics skill. My currenty project is to build a dome home, earth sheltered. We have just begun the architectural sketches and I joined the group to see what I could learn about domes here. I look forward to an interesting time of it. CRITICAL PATH set me on this road. Warm regards, Jim Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 12:58:56 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Volume of Descartes? John Furthey said: >Descartes went into a restaurant for dinner. The waiter, >after taking his order, asked, >"And would you like wine with your meal sir?" >Descartes replied, "I think not", and disappeared. Putting Descartes before the horse, aren't we? I work the day shift at the Idea Factory james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 08:44:42 -1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jay Hanson Subject: Please join my new BRAIN FOOD mailing list. Comments: To: wholesys-l@netcom.com Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com Please join my new BRAIN FOOD mailing list. The initial purpose of this list is to distribute my essays and receive feedback from my readers. There will no more than one every month or two. My work is dedicated to the Common Good of our species and to the stewardship of all of God's beautiful creation. My essays may be freely reprinted and my ideas may be incorporated into other works without credit. The major themes on this list are "systems" and "philosophy". Subtopics may relate to specific disciplines such as politics, economics, theology, and ecology. This is not the type of list where subscribers can enter into a dialog with the entire list -- at least not to begin with. This is a manual list that I am running from my home. If this list develops as I hope it will, I will convert it into a regular automatic list. To join this free list, send : "subscribe BRAIN FOOD" to jhanson@ilhawaii.net [You will get no acknowledgement. If you are already on my list, there is no need to re-subscribe.] Here is a sample essay: **************************************************************** The Industrial Religion 11/4/95 by Jay Hanson - jhanson@lhawaii.net As the new century rises like a wave on the horizon, we sense that we are not going to be able to ride this one out, that uncontrollable currents will pull us to the bottom and tear us apart. We have good reason to be frightened because we are in the midst of a "paradigm shift"; a tidal wave of change that threatens to overwhelm and annihilate us. This new century brings with it dangers and challenges that we can scarcely imagine. Human society has experienced paradigm shifts in the past, but nothing compared to what is yet to come. For 14 centuries, Ptolemy's astronomical theory (that everything in the universe revolved around the Earth) was taught as religious dogma throughout Western Christendom. But, Copernicus changed all that and caused tremendous controversy in religion, philosophy, and social theory by proving mathematically that the Earth moves around the Sun. The implications of Copernicus' ideas were devastating for the Catholic Church. No longer was the Earth the center of the universe. In fact, man might not have a special place in creation at all! This was heresy on a grand scale. The medieval Schoolmen even refused to peer into a telescope to "see for themselves" because doing so meant defeat for their current religious dogma. Before Copernicus' time, knowledge was based on "authority" (reading scriptures or philosophical tracts). In contrast, the new knowledge was "empirical" (by scientific observation and experiment). Ultimately of course, science defeated religious dogma. The Copernican revolution successfully challenged ancient authority and caused a paradigm shift in our entire conception of the universe. If we substitute "Industrial Religion" for Catholicism, "ecology" for Copernicus' astronomy, and "Growthmen" for Schoolmen, we can see that a parallel situation exists today. In the 16th century, Martin Luther established a new form of Christianity that advocated submission to patriarchal authority, with work as the only way to obtain love and approval. But behind the Christian facade arose a new secret religion, an Industrial Religion, that actually directs the character of modern society. At the center of Industrial Religion is fear of powerful male authorities, cultivation of the sense of guilt for disobedience, and dissolution of community by promoting hyperindividuality and mutual antagonism. The "sacred" in Industrial Religion is work, property, profit and power. Industrial Religion is incompatible with genuine Christianity in that it reduces people to servants of the economy. The most aggressive and ruthless are rewarded with even more power and riches. Industrial Religion was destined to fail from the very beginning because it actively destroys its own premises (both morally and physically) by encouraging its members to dominate and exploit each other and nature. Evidence that Industrial Religion is failing, ipso facto, is everywhere: desertification, topsoil loss, falling water tables, filling garbage dumps, ozone depletion, global warming, human sperm decline, rising cancer rates, loss of biodiversity, collapsing ocean fisheries, depletion of oil, nuclear waste, 300,000 to 400,000 polluted ground water sites, pesticide-resistant pests, antibiotic-resistant disease, billions of people in the Third World planning to industrialize; social problems such as jobless futures, the national debt, crack babies, declining SAT scores, skyrocketing teenage pregnancy, violence and suicide . . . Growthmen are today's equivalent of the medieval Schoolmen. They refuse to look at the scientific evidence and "see for themselves", because once again, it means the defeat of their current religious dogma; it means that they must give up their faith that the problems caused by growth can be cured by more of the cause. There is however, one big difference between yesterday's Schoolmen and today's Growthmen. Growthmen carry the collective responsibility for the deaths of billions of lives as once-civil societies gradually disintegrate into insurrection, chaos, and oblivion. jhanson@ilhawaii.net ---------------- Further reading: Erich Fromm, TO HAVE OR TO BE; Bantam, 1977 ISBN 0-553-27485-6 Berger & Luckmann, THE SOCIAL CONSCTRUCTION OF REALITY; Anchor Books, 1966, ISBN 0-385-05898-5 From THE SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION OF REALITY: "Reification is the apprehension of human phenomena as if they were things, that is, in non-human or possibly supra-human terms. Another way of saying this is that reification is the apprehension of the products as if they something else than human products -- such as facts of nature, results of cosmic laws, or manifestations of divine will. Reification implies that man is capable of forgetting his own authorship of the human world, and further, that the dialectic between man, the producer, and his products is lost to consciousness. The reified world is, by definition, a dehumanized world. It is experienced by man as a strange facticity, an opus alienum over which he has no control rather than as the opus proprium of his own productive activity." [p. 89] This book takes you step by step through the process of constructing "social reality" and complete with institutions to "legitimize" that reality. WARNING: If you read this book, you will never look at another human in the same light. This is one of those books, like BEYOND OIL, that will forever alter your world view. jhanson@ilhawaii.net [ This article and others are archived at: gopher://csf.colorado.edu/11/environment/authors/Hanson.Jay ftp://csf.colorado.edu/environment/authors/Hanson.Jay/ ] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 13:04:27 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Futhey Subject: Re: Volume of Descartes? > > Putting Descartes before the horse, aren't we? > > I work the day shift at the Idea Factory > > james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com Touche', I like it! John ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 18:23:20 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? syncswim@world.std.com (Steven L Combs) wrote: > As for "tippy tetrahedrons" - Yes, Kirby meant a face-up tetra. >Otherwise, you would have to lop off the top to fill it. > The bulk of the confusion generated by this volume discussion was >the initial failure of all of us to identify our units. I think it is >best to try to use the term tetravolumes when discussing relative >geodesic volumes, since the DVC can be unwieldy. Darn, I thought it was a deeper confusion. You seemed earlier to be saying that we shouldn't propose the tetrahedron and triangle as alternative depictions of multiplication (by division). > However, I will suggest a defense of Descartes. Recently it was >asked on the physics newsgroup, "Why 3 dimensions? Why not more or less?" >I invoked Bucky's memory in answering that 3 were all that were necessary >to define space and nature is always efficient. I think the cubic volume >concept is a logical "inside-outing" of the x-y-z axes. This could be the basis for another thread. Bucky was emphatic that in synergetics we have 4 prefrequency dimensions, none of which is 'time.' He felt that the concept of a zero-dimensional point, one-dimensional line and so on was confusing and unnecessary. Points, lines, planes and tetrahedra all have insides and outsides, all are 4D. Then, when you add time/energy, you get actual instantiations of class templates, i.e. a generalized tetrahedron becomes a real one, either sitting on a desk, or in someone's imagination. This may be described in adding more dimensions to the prefrequency 4. In any case, I don't think Bucky provides a defense for the Cartesian concept of 3-dimensional space. On the contrary, he engaged in a lifetime of polemics against this concept. > Tetrahedra are wonderful things. But they don't close-pack to fill >allspace - so it is best not to use them as volume references except in >the case of relative geodesic comparisons. But rhombic dodecahedron (6 tvs) fill space, and tetras do in complement with the octa (4 tvs). It's not so much the space-filling that's important as the skeletal framework within which one projects crystals, molecules, bridges -- whatever is interesting. The cubic skeleton has retarded a lot of thinking vis-a-vis crytallography, one might argue, because the repeating patterns that make up a crystal lattice often stand out much more clearly in, say, the IVM. The so-called 'unit cube' has been a liability in crystallography. Similarly, once I understood sphere-packing ala the cuboctahedron growing around a nuclear sphere, I never wanted to go back to explaining the derivation of 'face-centered cubic.' We have hundreds of years invested in the cubic algorithms and apparatus and obviously it would be ridiculous to toss it. On the other hand, synergetics works directly with the imagination, without much in the way of notation of math-specific symbolry. Just read the words and start seeing the pictures and relationships. When it comes to streamlining the imagination with coherent, spatial concepts, I choose synergetics over Cartesian xyz mathematics as the superior encoding more directly suited to the human imagination. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 10:22:31 LOCAL Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Stephen Harris Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? > do they use space filling in physics. > i think the discussion about the tetrahdron volume is very important > so if there is confusion it is important confusion. > M.Tagdi Yes, that is one of the things I had to find out about. The underlying mathematics from space-filling plays and important part in information theory...most efficient ways of compacting data for transmission.(fractals) This Post Error Correction Encoded, Stephen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 18:27:25 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Best geodesic manafacturers Joe Moore wrote: >See the list of dome manufs at > > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html > >A dome is the most efficient way to enclose space. What goes inside it is >another story. No one has yet built Fuller's "dream" dome. See _Critical >Path_, pages 310-15. > Specifically, a list of dome manufacturers is at: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeman.html Recently received brochures from new addition to that list: Geometrica, based in Texas. These are industrial domes and other shapes, not residential. Also large scale octet truss. Brochures emphasize how containments for going operations may be constructed without down time, as the dome provides its own scaffolding -- can build the enclosure even while work proceeds. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 18:30:21 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Concept of Dimension in Synergetics syncswim@world.std.com (Steven L Combs) wrote: > However, I will suggest a defense of Descartes. Recently it was >asked on the physics newsgroup, "Why 3 dimensions? Why not more or less?" >I invoked Bucky's memory in answering that 3 were all that were necessary >to define space and nature is always efficient. I think the cubic volume >concept is a logical "inside-outing" of the x-y-z axes. This could be the basis for another thread. Bucky was emphatic that in synergetics we have 4 prefrequency dimensions, none of which is 'time.' He felt that the concept of a zero-dimensional point, one-dimensional line and so on was confusing and unnecessary. Points, lines, planes and tetrahedra all have insides and outsides, all are 4D. Then, when you add time/energy, you get actual instantiations of class templates, i.e. a generalized tetrahedron becomes a real one, either sitting on a desk, or in someone's imagination. This may be described in adding more dimensions to the prefrequency 4. In any case, I don't think Bucky provides a defense for the Cartesian concept of 3-dimensional space. On the contrary, he engaged in a lifetime of polemics against this concept. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 19:21:27 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gil Friend Subject: Re: Volume of Descartes? At 1:04 PM 11/26/95, John Futhey wrote: >> >> Putting Descartes before the horse, aren't we? Depends on whether he ordered dinner a la carte, doesn't it? (Observation courtesy of my wife Jane) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 20:25:13 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: request to be added to your directory (fwd) TrimtabNYC@aol.com writes: > From emout05.mail.aol.com!aol.com!trimtabnyc Sun Nov 26 18:42:17 1995 > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:42:24 -0500 > From: TrimtabNYC@aol.com > Message-ID: <951126214223_117022633@emout05.mail.aol.com> > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: request to be added to your directory > > I would like to list my business, Quantum Management Systems, under > Organizations on The Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute. (Another option would > be to create a category called "Business/Management Consulting.") > I am an organizational development and strategic planning consultant. > Quantum Management Systems' mission is to support for-profit and > not-for-profit organizations in creating a sustainable future for themselves, > their customers, and society-at-large. > Much of my work is based on Bucky's vision that we have the technical > capability to create a "world that works for everyone." I also have a strong > grounding in the quality managment principles of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. > I would be happy to send you additional information, if you require any > before adding QMS to your Insitute. > Thank you for considering this request, and thank you for creating the > Institute. > > Steve Brant > Quantum Management Systems > 81 Ocean Parkway, Suite 3H > Brooklyn, NY 11218 > 718-972-0949 (voice) > 718-97203465 (fax) > trimtabnyc@aol.com > .- > -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:01:09 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: OUT OF PRINT BOOKS FYI: If anyone is looking for an out of print book by or about R.Buckminster Fuller, they might consider posting a notice in the rec.arts.books.marketplace newsgroup. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:34:04 -0500 Reply-To: WLauritzen Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Versatile Numbers/I [reformated] NOTE: As numbers have application in a wide variety of fields, I am posting this essay to various News Groups on the Internet even though it may not have direct significance to your group. If you take the time to read the essay, you'll find implications for astronomy, economics, sociology, history, psychology, space science as well as other fields. Any comments from members of this particular newsgroup are appreciated. However, since I don't have the time to read all the various newsgroups, please e-mail me your comments. W.G.L. VERSATILE NUMBERS Part I by William Gunther Lauritzen If we compare the number 12 with the number 14, along the lines of addition, we see that the the number of ways to split the numbers into two integer parts is generally determined by the size of the number. In other words, 14 can be written as 1+ 13, 2 + 12, 3 + 11, 4 + 10, 5 + 9, 6 + 8, and 7+7. Whereas 12 can be written only as 1 + 11, 2 + 10, 3 + 9, 4 + 8, 5 + 7, and 6 + 6. If we were to express 12 and 14 as the products of two numbers rather than the sums of two numbers, an entirely different story emerges. Fourteen can be written as 1 x 14 and 2 x 7 only. Twelve can be written as 1 x 12, 2 x 6, and 3 x 4. The smaller number can be split in more ways. We say 14 has four "divisors" or "factors," while 12 has six. (Iin this article "divisors and "factors" can be considered to have the same meaning. I use the word older term "divisors" rather than "factors" in this article as, for my purposes, it communicates better.) Here's a sample divisor table: number divisors number of divisors 1 1x1 1 2 1x2 2 3 1x3 2 4 1x4, 2x2 3 5 1x5 2 6 1x6, 2x3 4 7 1x7 2 8 1x8, 2x4 4 9 1x9, 3x3 3 10 1x10 2x5 4 11 1x11 2 12 1x12, 2x6, 3x4 6 I am very interested in numbers with relatively large numbers of divisors, as these numbers have a great deal of social usefulness. They can be applied in business, science, military, in fact, in every area of human endeavor that employs numbers. Later, I will rigorously define these numbers, but now, for the sake of convenience, call them versatile numbers. Loosely, we could say rigid numbers have a minimum number of divisors (primes), while versatile numbers have a relative maximum of divisors. Imagine two businesmen: Businessman A imports 360 items. Businessman B imports 375 items. The number of factors of 360 is 24. The 360 items can be divided into 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 18, 20, 24, 30, 36, 40, 45, 60, 72, 90, 120, 180, or 360 even groups without the use of fractions. The number of factors of 375 is 8. The 375 items can only be split into 1, 3, 5, 15, 25, 75, 125, and 375 even groups without the use of fractions. Let's say both businessmen agree that the item will sell well in 60 medium sized cities. Businessmen A simply divides his stock into sixty groups of 6 each. Businessman B has to deal with FRACTIONS or subtract some of his stock to get a number that 60 will go into evenly. To the average person fractions are not that easy to deal with. They take time and effort, especially when you are dealing with say decimal fractions that are repeating such as 1/3 or .33333... .. I would say fractions in this example cause unnecessary stress. Unnecessary stress can cause detrimental physiological effects. It may be a small and subtle advantage that Businessman A has, but it now appears that in life a small advantage, over time, can lead to the extinction of competitors (see Darwin's theory of natural selection). I believe this same mechanism operates in this situation. In other words, a business with a small advantage (such as the liberal use of versatile numbers) will, other things being equal, have a better chance of survival. Remember that chimps have something like 99.9% of their active DNA in common with humans. Look at what difference that small advantage can make. We could make up other examples: How many items should I export? How many items should I manufacture? How many items should I pack together? Or from science and mathematics: How should I divide up space-time, matter, and energy for measuring? How should I pack numbers together into groups? (In other words, how should I divide up "infinity.") Or from education: How many students should I have in a class? Or from government: How many people should there be in a voting district? The fact is that IT IS EASIER TO SHARE OR DISTRIBUTE USING VERSATILE NUMBERS than any other kind of numbers. Why is distribution important? Remember that nature does two crucial tasks. One is to bring things together. This could be through gravity or though human packing of goods. The second is to spread things out. This could be through energy radiation or through human distribution. So packing, and its opposite, distribution, are vital to understand. If there is a shortage of something (such as food) on one side of the globe and a surplus of something (such as food) on another, it is to humanity's advantage to be able to pack, transport, and then distribute this food efficiently and easily. With regard to versatile numbers, I see here a loose parallel to the history of psychology. Sigmund Freud and others intently studied psychotic and neurotic behavior, or aberration. This, of course, gave a skewed view of human nature. Abraham Maslow decided to study healthy people or what he called "self-actualized" people. This resulted in a new branch of psychology called humanistic psychology. The two together provide us with a more balanced view of humanity. I believe that mathematicians have studied numbers with a minimum of divisors (primes), while, to some degree, ignoring numbers with a large number of divisors. If you remember from school, primes have only two divisors or "factors", 1 and themselves. A composite has more than two divisors. In a sense, it is "composed" of primes. Sometimes, I call versatile numbers "antiprimes," as this communicates quicky. However, I believe the word "prime" has some disadvantages. "Prime" usually implies some excellence or value. This word I think helps put undue emphasis on these numbers. Of course, it's true that every non-rigid (composite) number can be expressed as the product of primes. In one sense, primes are the building material of the other numbers. BUT WHAT GOOD IS THE BUILDING MATERIAL WITHOUT THE BUILDING? Do we call our cathedrals and other great works of architecture merely "composites"? Do we primarily (no pun intended) study our building materials and secondarily our buildings? Or, should we be most concerned with our shelters, and as a result, be interested in what they are of made of? To me versatile numbers are a numerical nexus point. A point where numbers meet. Ultimately, a society would study both primes as well as versatiles. I originally defined three classes of versatile numbers: 1) general versatile (general antiprime): a number that has a greater than or equal number of divisors to every smaller number. These are the first few versatiles (the number of divisors is in parenthesis): 1(1), 2(2), 4(3), 6(4), 8(4), 10(4), 12(6), 18(6), 20(6), 24(8), 30(8), 36(9), 48(10), 60(12), 72(12), 84(12), 90(12), 96(12), 108(12), 120(16), 168(16), 180(18),... I believe that these numbers, like primes, can not be predicted by any formula. Another characteristic that they share with primes, is that they become less frequent as they get larger. 2) versatile (antiprime): a number that has a greater number of divisors than any smaller number. Whenever the number of divisors from the list above jumps, we designate a leading versatile. This is a more exclusive class. Here are the first few leading versatiles: 1(1), 2(2), 4(3), 6(4), 12(6), 24(8), 36(9), 48(10), 60(12), 120(16), 180(18), 240(20), 360(24), 720(30), 840(32), 1260(36), 1680(40), 2520(48), 5040(60), ... It's fascinating to try to look for patterns in these, but, I believe there are none. For a while I thought that there was a prime next to every leading versatile except for 120. [This holds true up to 25,200(90).] I calculated these numbers up to 110 880(144) with a computer program. (There's thirty of them up to that number.) 3) dominant versatile (dominant antiprime): a number that has a greater number of divisors than any number from zero up to (not including) double itself. Here are the first dominant versatiles: 1(1), 2(2), 6(4), 12(6), 60(12), 360(24), 2520(48), ? In other words, 60 has more divisors than the 59 numbers on either side of it. It is a MIDPOINT of a REGION or range OF NUMBERS over which it dominates with regard to versatility. Twelve, the middle number of this group, has had mystical properties associated with it. However, I demystify it by showing that its uniqueness is associated with its versatility. I was somewhat excited to see that three of these dominant versatile numbers were ones that the Babylonians had choosen at the (apparent) dawn of civilization with which to divide up the heavens, the circle, time, and their number system. (The Babylonian day had 12 hours not 24.) This base 60 grouping has been a mystery and we find Oystein Ore (in the book, Number Theory and its History) writing, "It is difficult to explain the reasons for such a large unit group." One hypothesis for why the Babylonians picked these groupings is that they come from astronomy. However, note that 365.25 (days per year) and 12.4 (lunar months per year) are the only astronomical numbers close to dominant versatiles. A strict astronomical hypothesis, I think, is wrong. I suggest that the Babylonians chose 12, 60, and 360 partly because of the closeness of 12.4 and 365.25 and partly because these numbers have relatively large numbers of divisors. It's possible that the Babylonians were aware of the class of numbers I call "dominant versatiles." It may be a very fortuitous astronomical circumstance that we have 12.4 months and 365.25 days per year. Some people have suggested that human civilization was stimulated by the apparent closeness in size in the sky of our moon to the sun which leads to the magnificent solar eclipse. Perhaps the closeness in size of 12.4 and 365.25 to dominant versatile numbers also stimulated the rise of human civilization. Perhaps this is part of the reason that SETI (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) has failed so far. Our unique moon/earth system may have led us to technological advances ahead of other (hypothetical) planetary life forms. Of course, this is no argument for shutting down SETI. I am much in favor of this program. Potentially there is a vast number of possible ET (extraterrestrial) civilizations, and the possible gains to be made from making ET radio contact are extremely high. I wrote some simple computer programs to calculate versatiles, but I have an old computer, and it took hours for it to run up to 110 880. I needed a faster computer to find out whether there were more dominant antiprimes. While looking for a faster computer, I began to wonder if anyone had studied this number phenomena before. In the library, I found that traditional mathematics has divided numbers into "perfect numbers, deficient numbers, and abundant numbers": What were these? And how did they begin? They were defined as follows: 1) abundant number: the sum of the divisors of a number, except for itself, is greater than itself. The first few are: 12(6), 18(6), 20(6), 24(8), 28(6), 30(8), 36(9), 40(8), 42(8), 48(10), 54(8), 56(8), 60(12), 66(8), 70(8), 72(12), 78(8), 80(10), 84(12), 88(8), 90(12), ... 2) perfect number: the sum of the divisors of a number, except for itself, equals itself. The first few are: 6, 28, 496, 8128, 33 550 336, 8 589 869 056, 137 438 691 328, ... 3) deficient number: the sum of the divisors of a number, except for itself, is less than itself: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, ... . This includes all the numbers not listed in the first two definitions. It can be seen that the group of abundant numbers is more inclusive than the group of versatiles. When and why did the "abundant, perfect, deficient" paradigm begin? Euclid, around 300 BC defined a perfect number as "that which is equal to its own parts." Nicomachus, around 100 AD, correctly noticed that all odd numbers were deficient. So he discussed "even abundant" and "even deficient" numbers. He compared even abundant numbers to an animal with "too many parts or limbs, with ten tongues, as the poet says, and ten mouths, or with nine lips, or three rows of teeth ...". An even deficient number was said to be as though "one should be one handed, or have fewer than five fingers on one hand, or lack a tongue ...". Perfect numbers, he said, are akin to "wealth, moderation, propriety, beauty, and the like ...". All in all, not a very scientific analysis. In more recent times, L.E. Dickson, in 1952, (in the standard book, Theory of Numbers, 3 vols.), gave an extensive history of number theory, with a complete documentation of names and dates except for one instance. In the very first paragraph of the first volume he defined abundant, perfect, and deficient numbers. It's almost as if they had always existed or had been handed down from some divine entity. But these categories must have started somewhere, and for some reason. The question was where? End of Part I (c) 1995 W. G. Lauritzen William Gunther Lauritzen 809-D East Garfield Glendale, CA 91205 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:34:11 -0500 Reply-To: WLauritzen Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Versatile Numbers/II [reformated] Versatile Numbers: Part II by William Gunther Lauritzen Richard Friedberg, in 1968, (in the book An Adventurer's Guide to Number Theory) implied that Pythagorus, around 600 BC, knew these three classes. Friedberg also suggested that these classes developed because the Egyptians never wrote fractions such as 11/12. Instead they would write it as 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/12, never putting anything but a "1" in the numerator. Also they never used the same denominator more than once. As a result, all the perfect numbers can be split up "perfectly." Six can be split into 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/6 or 6/6. However, 10 can be split up only into 1/5 + 1/2 or 7/10. It's a "deficient" number. Twelve can be split up into 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 or 14/12. Twelve is "abundant." If Frieberg was correct, since we don't use Egyptian fractions anymore, these numbers and their names are an anachronism. I would suggest the name "factor sum" instead of "perfect number." In our OWN number system, using OUR fractions, perfect numbers are not so perfect. I must say I don't like the name "abundant number." To the uninitiated, it implies simply a large number. I believe "antiprime" or "versatile" to be much more descriptive. I call these "abundant" numbers "flexible" numbers. Continuing my library search, I located an astonishing article published in 1915 (Proceedings of the London Mathematical Society, Vol 14) in which the noted Indian mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan analyzes what he calls "Highly Composite Numbers." Although Ramanujan studied mathematics extensively in India, his only exposure to modern European mathematics (of his time) was one book on mathematics. He single-handedly re-derived much of modern (1915) mathematics (and a good deal more) by himself. His story was a fascinating but tragic one. Here's his definition of a "highly composite number": "I define a highly composite number as a number whose number of divisors exceed that of all its predecessors." This class of number is exactly what I call a versatile number. (In mathematical language: the number n is called highly composite if d(m) < d(n) for all m < n where d(n) is the number of divisors of n.) The term "highly composite" is descriptive to someone trained in mathematics, however, I believe the terms "versatile" and "antiprime" are more descriptive, and should be used in order to communicate to the largest number of people the character and usefuless of these kinds of numbers. Ramanujan was always looking for new ways to do things. He may not have known of the traditional mathematical paradigm (of abundant, perfect, and deficient numbers). Or if he did, he decided to explore on his own, and discovered and classified "highly composite" numbers. As he said in his now somewhat famous letter to England in 1913, "I have not trodden through the conventional regular course which is followed in a University course, but am striking out a new path for myself." Let me give you some idea of the magnitude of his mathematical genius. With the help of a computer that calculated all night, I had determined the first 30 versatiles up to 110 880 (144 divisors). Without the use of a computer, Ramanujan had calculated all the versatiles up to 6 746 328 388 800 (10 080 factors)! I was dumbfounded. I quickly looked through his table to see if there were any more dominant versatile numbers. No. There were none. In fact, by analyzing all this information, Ramanujan was able to prove that the ratio of two consecutive versatile numbers tends to unity (two successive versatiles are asymptotically equivalent). This means that as the versatiles get larger, there is less and less chance of there being another dominant versatile number. In effect, there are no more. He came to a similar conclusion to mine with regard to predicting versatile numbers: "I do not know of any method for determining consecutive highly composite numbers except by trial." He described another class of numbers, which he called by the awkward sounding "superior highly composite numbers." Compared to versatile numbers, it's definition is just as awkward: A number n may be said to be a superior highly composite if there exists a positive number x, such that d(n)/(n^x) >= d(n')/(n'^x) for all values of n' less than n, and d(n)/(n^x) > d(n')/(n'^x) for all values of n' greater than n. The first few are: 2, 6, 12, 60, 360, 2520, 5040, 55440, 720 720, 1 441 440, 4 324 320, ... As you can see, with the exception of "1", which arguably could be included, his first six "superior highly composite numbers" are identical to "dominant versatiles." Whether he noticed the classification of what I call dominant versatiles, I do not know. His mathematical expression I translated into English (with capitals added for clarity): "A number may be said to be a superior highly composite number if there exists some positive exponent, such that the ratio of the number of divisors of the number to the number raised to that exponent IS GREATER THAN OR EQUAL to the ratio of the number of divisors of any smaller number to the smaller number raised to that exponent, AND the ratio of the number of divisors of the number to the number raised to that exponent IS GREATER THAN the ratio of the number of divisors of any larger number to the larger number raised to that exponent." Still don't fully get it? Don't worry. It's not exactly obvious, and neither do I. But Ramanujan's incredibly pure mathematical mind managed to ferret out and symbolize the above rather hidden relationship. In fact, a pure mathematician might look at this feat with the same awe that a musician might regard a Bach composition. I prefer to call "superior highly composite numbers" by the name "superior versatile numbers." Dominant versatiles compose the first seven of these if we include the number 1. Here is a possible scale of versatility: VERSATILITY (ANTIPRIME) SCALE DOMINANT VERSATILE : a number with more divisors than any number from 0 up to (not including) double itself (the first seven of the Ramanujan superior highly composite numbers). VERSATILE : a number with more divisors than any smaller number (also known as Ramanujan's highly composite). RIGID: A number with only two divisors, one and itself (a prime). For simplicity, I left off the scale the general versatile numbers. Also, I left off the scale the "abundant, perfect, and deficient" numbers as they are archaic. Finally, I left off the scale Ramanujan's "superior highly composite numbers" because they are so difficult to define. (This does not mean the superior versatile series is not of interest. It may have some significant applicability. In fact, I have thought about using a number base that keeps changing to the next superior versatile number. However, it's possible that Ramanujan, in an effort to impress his European counterparts, simply went too far with his "superior highly versatile numbers." Knowledge that is complex and difficult to remember has questionable usefulness in my mind.) So I am primarily interested in defining numbers that the public, legislators, and mathematics teachers can easily remember and use. In other words, I am interested in large scale social application. I believe all of the definitions of the numbers on this scale could be understood and remembered by an average 12-year-old. Since there are only seven dominant versatile numbers, we have a loose analogy to the limited number of Platonic solids: the tetrahedron (four-corners), the octahedron (six-corners), the cube (eight-corners), the icosahedron (twelve-corners), and the dodecahedron (twenty-corners). Euclid proved, at the end of his book (The Elements, one of the most popular books of all time) that there can be only five of these regular, solid figures. Notice that the number of corners of these figures are all general versatile numbers. It was partly due to my study of these figures that I discovered versatile numbers. In addition, so much of geometry and mathematics is potentially infinite in its process, I was fascinated when I discovered that there were only five of these figures. This fact may have led me to wonder if there were only seven dominant versatiles. Although Ramanujan made a breakthough in our knowledge concerning numbers with relatively large numbers of divisors, or versatiles, in 1915, has this information found itself into the mainstream of society? Have the public and legislators used this information to bring about ease of computation, packing and distribution? The answer must be a resounding "no," and then some. G .W. Hardy, the brilliant British mathematician who brought Ramanujan to England, in 1917 (see Collected Papers of G.W. Hardy, Vol. VII), called Ramanujan's paper "... the largest and perhaps the most important connected piece of work which he has done since his arrival in England." Ramanujan died in 1920, at a young age, and Hardy went on to live many more years, until 1947. I wondered why Hardy did not try to apply this work to society. However, Hardy himself answers this question: "If asked to explain how, and why, the solution of the problems which occupy the best energies of my life is of importance to the general life of the community, I must decline the unequal contest." (in the book, The Man Who Knew Infinity, by Kanigel) This raises many questions concerning the relationship between mathematicians (and scientists) and the rest of society. For example, whose responsibility is it to take the products of mathematical intelligence and apply them to society? Unfortunately, these questions are beyond the scope of this article. I have been told by one person, upon reading these ideas, that "so and so already knows all about that." "So and so" is a currently fashionable mathematician with some popular books on the market. However, when I look through "so and so's" books I find nothing of the sort. Perhaps hidden away in section of one of "so and so's" books is a curious interest in numbers with relatively large numbers of factors, but no simple analysis and nomenclature, and no grasp of the importance of these numbers for civilization. And if "so and so" knows all about these numbers and their importance, why has the public remained ignorant of them? Although apparently not aware of ALL the dominant versatile numbers, some people have suggested using numbers with a larger numbers of divisors. A base twelve numbering system was proposed in 1586 by Simon Stevin and again in 1760 by Georges Louis Leclerc. In 1944 a librarian, F. Emerson Andrews, helped to form the Doudecimal Society (later called the Dozenal Society of which I am currently a member). The Society rightly points out that a dozenal base is better than a ten base. They have done an extraordinary amount of work deriving the mathematics of a dozenal system. However, I believe they have failed, to a large degree, to communicate these results to the public. (How many people have heard of a dozenal base or the Dozenal Society?) I think the reason for this is that, being mostly mathematicians, they stress the mathematical aspects of a dozenal base and they communicate in a mathematical language. To use the most blatent example they say, "twelve has more factors than ten." They would do much better to use the word "divisors" rather than "factors", and even BETTER to stress that twelve things can be SHARED in more ways than ten. Issac Asimov was a member of the Dozenal Society and has several paragraphs in his book, Realm of Numbers, concerning the advantages of a base twelve number system, but also seems convinced that our ten fingers are too big an obstacle to overcome. (A point which I refute in my book and video.) Despite these few dissenters, the world has continued to slip toward base ten and the "scientific" base ten metric system. For example, in 1971, the British switched from half-pennies, pennies, threepence, sixpence, shillings, half-crowns, pounds, and guineas (a 1/2, 1, 3, 6, 12, 30, 240, 252, system which uses all versatile numbers except for 1/2 and 252--but if you double them all, then they are all versatile), to a decimal, semi-rigid, monetary system. The versatile numbers were in use when London was the foremost financial center of the world. The English system of measurement with 12 inches to the foot was in use when the U.S. put a man on the moon. Now the U.S. is trying to go to a non-versatile metric system. It's a noble goal to align all your measuring systems with your number system, and those who have tried to do so should be thanked for their efforts. However, measurements should be derived from a dominant versatile number. We should be trying to align all our numbers with our more versatile measuring system. Why haven't dominant versatile numbers, in a sense the "shelters" and the "great cathedrals" of all our numbers, been more intensively studied and taught? I believe we've been surrounded by versatile numbers for so long (months, seconds, minutes, hours, dozens, feet, six-packs, twelve-packs, twelve notes, twelve pence, etc.) that we have forgotten about them. And even if one does discover them, they are an embarassment to a society that uses "ten," only a semi-versatile number, as the core of its number system. I believe that school children should be able to define and list versatile numbers and dominant versatile numbers as well as they do prime (rigid) numbers. They should also be taught to use versatile numbers in real situations as mentioned at the beginning of this article. Businessmen, politicians, military leaders, in fact, all citizens could benefit from knowing these numbers. I teach these numbers now. I don't wait for approval from a curricular committee. Certainly one should try to get them on the curriculum, as that will benefit everyone, but I have seen too many benefits of learning and using these numbers in my own life too deny them to others. In the long term, our numbering system should have a versatile number at its core rather than a non-versatile number. In my booklet Nature's Numbers and in the video Numbers of the Future, I discuss this further, and also propose what I believe are more efficient, easily learned numbering systems (not using 0-9 but entirely different symbols of my own invention) derived from dominant versatile numbers. I show also some easily learned models other than the "five-per-hand-model." I have personally taught these numbers to 3000 students as of this date, and I have some degree of certainty as to their usefulness. In summary, an important class of numbers, equal in importance to so-called prime numbers, was defined by Ramanujian 1915. Mathematicians in the past, as well as in recent times, have suggested using one of these numbers, 12, for our number base. However, mathematicians are, in general, notorious for poor communication skills, and the civilization has in general ignored these numbers. In 1992, I independently invented base 12 number system and symbology as described in my booklet Nature's Numbers. In 1995 I rediscovered and simplified Ramanujan's class of numbers and dubbed them "versatile numbers." These numbers have the vital property that things can be SHARED EASIER with these numbers tha with other numbers. Thus they have unexplored ramifications in economics, business, psychology, medicine, and probably many other areas. A specific nomenclature, including EASE OF SHARING and VERSATILE NUMBERS, was developed to allow the vast majority to understand the importance of these numbers, and to raise their status to that of at least that of rigid (prime) numbers. Currently almost 6 billion people think in terms of ten, a semi-versatile number. What would be the synergetic effect if all these peoples minds were in tune with a completely versatile number system? (c) July 1995 revised Nov 1995 by W. G. Lauritzen William Gunther Lauritzen 809-D East Garfield Glendale, CA 91205 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 11:36:33 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Versatile Numbers/part III (Table) I hadn't quite grokked, before, that you were renaming the abundant#s. don't get me wrong, I like the term, versatile, and antiprime, a bit less, but it's a bit of an uphill battle, til you've found some new math to give amunition for your gunning at tradition, or integrated Ramanujan's amazing ****, nicely -- how'd he find that big, versatile# ?!?... also, there's an implication that prime#s are specialized or clumsy, when they are merely all of the irreducible factors of the "versatile" ones! ----- A Fermatio-Gaussian Conjecture: F^+(2^N) + F^-(2^N) is prime, where F is the golden mean and N is 0,1,2... (it works for the first five .-) ----- On Palmtree BBS: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 08:17:04 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: syn-l: Re: ST.JOHN DIVINE EVENT Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Brian Hutchings" at Nov 26, 95 12:38 pm Brian Hutchings writes: > > wow, they even have Magnus Wenninger, as well as Baer, Coxeter, Loeb etc.!! > now, are thee any all-expense-paid, round-trip "scholarships" available?... > no ?!?... how'bout a video-link, or a website ?? > I believe the event is over. It would be nice if someone who was there would post a report to our lists. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 08:22:33 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: ETHANOL The Dec 1995 issue of 'Popular Mechanics' on page 24 has an article entitled "Microbe Brewery" which talks about genetically altered bacteria that can produce ethanol at half the cost of previous methods. This could make ethanol as cheap as gasoline. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:40:47 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Concept of Dimension in Synergetics Kirby >This could be the basis for another thread. Bucky was emphatic that in >synergetics we have 4 prefrequency dimensions, none of which is 'time.' >He felt that the concept of a zero-dimensional point, one-dimensional >line and so on was confusing and unnecessary. Points, lines, planes and >tetrahedra all have insides and outsides, all are 4D. Then, when you >add time/energy, you get actual instantiations of class templates, i.e. >a generalized tetrahedron becomes a real one, either sitting on a desk, or >in someone's imagination. This may be described in adding more dimensions >to the prefrequency 4. Tagdi so you are saying that we have 4D befor frequency and once we add frequency we enter other dimensions, or is it only after you add time and energy. i thought the icosa was 10 dimension and rombic dodecahedron had 6 dimension. given the way we have been thought, thinking of mathematics in terms of frequency is not paltable. may be becuse we are quite mixed up may be you have to be an original thinker like Fuller who brought this new way of thinking; and removing it into the conceptual or matphysical level is quite novel that can take a while to digest. i find the tetraheron geometry quite fascinating, still floathing some where in the mind, when it becomes integral it will gain the privelage of being part of oneself. i take that intgrality to be part of correcting the corrdination in onself reflexes. last point: what is the consequences one's way of thinking if one thinks tetroctaicosve geometry on the level of one's experience. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 13:18:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck Stoffregen Subject: Dome Classes Comments: To: Synergetics@teleport.com I will be teaching a class; Geodesic Dome Model Building, through the Madison Area Technical College and another called Geodesic Dome Math. Held at MATC's Downtown Campus, 211 N. Carroll Street, Madison Wisconsin. The model building class, course number 804-410-001, will be held all four Tuesdays in February, (2/6/96, 2/13/96, 2/20/96 & 2/27/96) from 6:00-9:00 PM. Cost - $18.00. The geodesic math class, course number 804-410-002, will be held all four Tuesdays in March, (3/5/96, 3/12/96, 3/19/96 & 3/26/96) from 6:00-9:00PM. Cost - $18.00. This is my first time teaching these classes and need as much help and support from you, my listserve companions. I have been lurking for nearly a year and haven't had the time to respond more than a handful of times. Though you don't know me too well, I have read every posting that I recieved. You must have your social security number and the course number ready when you phone (608-246-6240 or 1-800-628-6282). You are not officially registered until you have paid your fees. Here is an outline of each class, let me know what I should add or correct. Your input will be valuable to me. Chuck Stoffregen Computer Teacher Wrestling Coach Madison Area Technical College cas1276@madison.tec.wi.us Fax (608) 246-6880 Synergy - Behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the behavior of their parts taken seperately. R.B. Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 11:00:36 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: syn-l: Re: ST.JOHN DIVINE EVENT Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com At 08:17 AM 11/27/95 PST, Joe Moore wrote: >Brian Hutchings writes: >> >> wow, they even have Magnus Wenninger, as well as Baer, Coxeter, Loeb etc.!! >> now, are thee any all-expense-paid, round-trip "scholarships" available?... >> no ?!?... how'bout a video-link, or a website ?? >> >I believe the event is over. It would be nice if someone who was there would >post a report to our lists. > My 4D Chronicler, already posted, contains a brief write-up. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 15:59:48 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Positive Revolution/De Bono I have recently read the book "The Handbook for the Positive Revolution", by Edward de Bono. I have been a big fan of de Bono for years and find alot of what he writes about very closely related to alot of Bucky's work. He talks about how our society promotes negative thoughts which seriously impedes progress. In his positive revolution, he promotes the ideas of trying to face a positive future. Instead of attack, there is construction, instead of criticism, there is design. He promotes change through perception and information rather than through violence and weapons. The principles of the positive revolution are: 1. Effectiveness: Setting out to do something and doing it. (Do-tanks!) 2. Constructive-Positive Direction 3. Respect. Most important principle of all. 4. Self Improvement. 5. Contribution: to the cause. -What you can give. I believe his ideas and ideals blend nicely with Bucky's and would recommend this book to fellow Dymaxions. Bill Paton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 16:59:35 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mike Markowski Organization: University of Delaware, Newark Subject: Reading recommendations? Hi all, I started reading this group after getting a little ways into "Critical Path." After a month I'm about 2/3 through now -- it's hard to set aside reading time with a 2 year old at home! Anyway, now that I've got a feel for Fuller's ideas and goals, what would be a good book to read next? Which book(s) would provide good technical descriptions/derivations of his work? For instance, in "Critical Path" he talks about the existence of domes, fog guns, new toilets, to name a few, but they are never described in any detail. I relize that's not the purpose of that particular book but am curious where I can find that other info. Thanks! Mike -- Mike Markowski http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~markowsk/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:32:51 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Reading recommendations? In-Reply-To: <49cqpn$hn6@louie.udel.edu>; from "Mike Markowski" at Nov 27, 95 4:59 pm Hang in there. In the last chapter of CP he describes some of his inventions in great detail (Chapter 10). A good book if you can get ahold of it is _The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller_ by RBF and Robert Marks (1973). Amy Edmondson's book _A Fuller Explanation_ is a good introduction to Synergetics (1987). The Buckminster Fuller Institute sells quite a few of his books. Email them at: bfi@aol.com or call them at: 805-962-0022 -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:05:42 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Versatile Numbers/part III (Table) Brian, I don't mean to imply that primes are clumsy, rather that the name "prime" implies that they are more important than highly composite numbers or what I call versatile numbers. I have been having a hell of a time with formatting the article but think i might have it figured out. Did you read the part about the buildings? Which is more important the building or the building material? Well they are probably equally important. Versatiles are like the building, primes are like the building material. William L. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 12:57:12 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: request to be added to your directory (fwd) "trimtabNYC" ?!?... that's the kind of trimtab that requires trimtabs on its trimtabs on its trimtabs to maneuver! ----- A Fermatio-Gaussian Conjecture: F^+(2^N) + F^-(2^N) is prime, where F is the golden mean and N is 0,1,2... (it works for the first five .-) ----- On Palmtree BBS: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 05:46:24 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Volume of a Tetrahedron? "Denis F. Blue" wrote: >KU: "Bucky said the Greeks were probably prejudiced >against tetrahedral measuring cups because they're tippy >and would spill their contents easily. " > >What? no one's yet pounced on that Urner fellow for his >"tippy" aspersion on the good reputation of the tetrahedron. . >Everyone must have overlooked this oversight as a small >token of our appreciation for all Kirby's fine work on this >List. Of course, the tet's the *least* tippable of any >structure. As Steven pointed out, the Greeks would have been trying to sip wine from their tetra, which means it'd have to be pointed towards the earth -- likely to tip without a special holding stand. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:19:28 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: ETHANOL In Message Mon, 27 Nov 1995 08:22:33 -0800 (PST), Joe Moore writes: >The Dec 1995 issue of 'Popular Mechanics' on page 24 has an article entitled >"Microbe Brewery" which talks about genetically altered bacteria that can >produce ethanol at half the cost of previous methods. This could make ethanol >as cheap as gasoline. > If I remember right the alcohol breweries in U.S, if converted into alkhool for energy production it will supply 10% of the country demand. ethanol is prefered to methen was't that what James Fischer once wrote. correction please. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:40:03 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: request to be added to your directory (fwd) >"trimtabNYC" ?!?... that's the kind of trimtab >that requires trimtabs on its trimtabs on its trimtabs to maneuver! i was by a seaport yesterday and i saw an instrument which looked like a fan , quite heavy for a person to carry. is that a trimtab. a fishing boat of 30 meter cost about 450,000 dollars.......... 9000 ton ship about 15 million. any one know for sure a house can last 100 years. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:57:03 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Positive Revolution/De Bono In Message Mon, 27 Nov 1995 15:59:48 +0000 (GMT), bill paton writes: >I have recently read the book "The Handbook for the Positive Revolution", >by Edward de Bono. I have been a big fan of de Bono for years and find >alot of what he writes about very closely related to alot of Bucky's work. >He talks about how our society promotes negative thoughts which seriously >impedes progress. In his positive revolution, he promotes the ideas of >trying to face a positive future. Instead of attack, there is >construction, instead of criticism, there is design. He promotes change >through perception and information rather than through violence and >weapons. He is making quite a bit of money with his lateral pardigma. there are a lot of flats in Malta. is this negative "half of the ideas are negative and the other half is positive" half of all the broadcasted information contradict the other half. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 12:19:27 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Capital in movment iron World production 1950 250 million ton 1967 625 = = average power station produces 2 million kwat there are 200 electrical boards in the U.S i red that China builds one station a week hard to believe. 1990 total world car production 46,500,000 million working population in information processing in U.S 1950 30% 1980 46% late 80's 60% 1990 70% 1948 integrated circut on a chip of silicon 1970 on fingerprint international firms FDI Americans had 2/3 of world FDI in 1970 1990 U.S 1/3 U.K 15% Japan 13% Germany 10% Swizerland 6.5 Netherland 6.5% Multi National produce 1/3 of world output sales 4.800 billion dollars 27,000 parent controlling 200,000 forighn affliates 100 largest sales 3,400 billion dollars Assets 40% outside their home 1/3 of world trade is interafirm. (the 1/3 phenomena) M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 09:46:43 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck Stoffregen Subject: Classes Sorry, I didn't mean to tease you, this is still in the development stage. Geodesic Dome Models Main Objective Starting with the primitive solids, students will build a variety of spherics, including a geodesic dome to take home. Materials 2) 200 craft sticks (popsicle) 2) hot melt glue gun 2) 10 hot melt glue sticks 2) 5 colored paints (red, blue, yellow, black, white) 2) paint brushes (2 or 3) 2) scissors General Objectives 1. The students will become familar with the Platonic polyhedron. 2. The students will become familar with what geodesic domes are. 3. The students will become familar with frequency. 4. The students will become familar with the different types of breakdowns. 5. The students will become familar with the relationship between chord factor spheric radius and strut length. 6. The students will construct the Platonic polyhedron. Starting with the primitive solids, students will build a variety of spherics, including a geodesic dome to take home. 2) Ten page teacher developed handbook 6. The students will construct the Platonic polyhedron. Geodesic Dome Math Main Objective Students will learn how to derive chord factors, central angles and dihedral angles of one, two, three and four frequency geodesic spherics. General Objectives 1. Students will review or discover the trigonometric functions. 2. Students will become familiar with the terms used in spherical trigonometry. 3. The students will understand the difference in plane trigonometry and spherical trigonometry. 4. Students will learn to derive the chord factors, central angles, dihedral angles of one and two frequency geodesic spherics. 5. Students will compare results with others. 6. Students will learn to derive the chord factors, central angles, dihedral angles of a three, and four frequency geodesic spherics. 7. Students will discover coincidences. Materals Trigonometric calculator Personal notebook Photocopy handout Create overhead films Ten page booklet, created by the instructor. Chuck Stoffregen Computer Teacher Wrestling Coach Madison Area Technical College cas1276@madison.tec.wi.us Fax (608) 246-6880 Synergy - Behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the behavior of their parts taken seperately. R.B. Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:56:31 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Brant Subject: trimtabing NYC Yes, NYC is a huge "ship of state." It will never change course rapidly, however it is capable of changing course over time. It's my home, and the Univerese seems to have given me the job (nobody else, locally, is using the tools I'm using for this purpose). Of course, partners are welcome, from near and far. Here's to a world that works for everyone! Steve Brant ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 21:07:34 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: trimtabing NYC In Message Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:56:31 -0500, Steve Brant writes: >Yes, NYC is a huge "ship of state." >It will never change course rapidly, however it is capable of changing course >over time. >It's my home, and the Univerese seems to have given me the job (nobody else, >locally, is using the tools I'm using for this purpose). >Of course, partners are welcome, from near and far. >Here's to a world that works for everyone! > >Steve Brant Can you clarify, when talaking about money everyone shy away. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:39:20 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Bucky & Triangles As I study Bucky more and more, I become aware of a pattern which is very strong in most of his work, and that is the use of the Triangle. Most of Western society and in particular our building is based on the rectangle, the square. Because it is so ingrained in our ideas and ideals, we take it for granted. Bucky realized that the triangle was the simplest object that could be designed as a shape (i.e the least amount of sides for a shape), and that a pyramid which was made up of a triangle with triangles attached was the simplest 3-D shape (least amount of sides for a 3-D object) while this is very obvious and known to all mathematicians and geometricians, it is what Bucky did with these shapes that make it interesting. He used a 3 wheeled approach as the dymaxion car, used a triangular patterning system for his 4-D house and his Dymaxion house, and ultimately a triangular system approach in his geodesic domes and his struts system. I have read that at an early age that he designed some struts with triangles that had his teachers baffled and amazed, but this is probably an urban myth. Also, Bucky approached thinking in a 3 way approach which was an unusual way to evaluate thinking. As an aside, when I told an architect friend of mine that many of his systems were based on triangles, she asked if he was a Cancer zodiac. I said yes and she said that Cancers are like crabs, they move side to side. This may be a coincidence or not, but I believe that one of the qualities that made Bucky a unique visionary was that he looked at a "square" world with a triangular point of view. Any square could be divided into two triangles. It would be interesting to look at the world from a completely "Circle" approach, or to continue with his triangular approach. I would be interested in anybody's thoughts on these ideas, as I would like to put together a paper about Bucky and triangles, which would examine Bucky and also the importance of a new approach in Western thinking. You can e-mail me at:bpaton@inforamp.net or send replies to this newsgroup Bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 16:12:56 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: World Scientists Warning to Humanity WORLD SCIENTISTS' WARNING TO HUMANITY Human beings and the natural world are on a collision course. Human activities inflict harsh and often irreversible damage on the environment and on critical resources. If not checked, many of our current practices put at serious risk the future that we wish for human society and the plant and animal kingdoms, and may so alter the living world that it will be unable to sustain life in the manner that we know it. Fundamental changes are urgent if we are to avoid the collision our present course will bring about. THE ENVIRONMENT The environment is suffering critical stress: The Atmosphere Stratospheric ozone depletion threatens us with enhanced ultra-violet radiation at the earth's surface, which can be damaging or lethal to many life forms. Air pollution near ground level, and acid precipitation, are already causing widespread injury to humans, forests and crops. Water Resources Heedless exploitation of depletable ground water supplies endangers food production and other essential human systems. Heavy demands on the world's surface waters have resulted in serious shortages in some 80 countries, containing 40% of the world's population. Pollution of rivers, lakes and ground water further limits the supply. Oceans Destructive pressure on the oceans is severe, particularly in the coastal regions which produce most of the world's food fish. The total marine catch is now at or above the estimated maximum sustainable yield. Some fisheries have already shown signs of collapse. Rivers carrying heavy burdens of eroded soil into the seas also carry industrial, municipal, agricultural, and livestock waste -- some of it toxic Soil Loss of soil productivity, which is causing extensive Land abandonment, is a widespread byproduct of current practices in agriculture and animal husbandry. Since 1945, 11% of the earth's vegetated surface has been degraded -- an area larger than India and China combined -- and per capita food production in many parts of the world is decreasing. Forests Tropical rain forests, as well as tropical and temperate dry forests, are being destroyed rapidly. At present rates, some critical forest types will be gone in a few years and most of the tropical rain forest will be gone before the end of the next century. With them will go large numbers of plant and animal species. Living Species The irreversible loss of species, which by 2100 may reach one third of all species now living, is especially serious. We are losing the potential they hold for providing medicinal and other benefits, and the contribution that genetic diversity of life forms gives to the robustness of the world's biological systems and to the astonishing beauty of the earth itself. Much of this damage is irreversible on a scale of centuries or permanent. Other processes appear to pose additional threats. Increasing levels of gases in the atmosphere from human activities, including carbon dioxide released from fossil fuel burning and from deforestation, may alter climate on a global scale. Predictions of global warming are still uncertain -- with projected effects ranging from tolerable to very severe -- but the potential risks are very great. Our massive tampering with the world's interdependent web of life -- coupled with the environmental damage inflicted by deforestation, species loss, and climate change -- could trigger widespread adverse effects, including unpredictable collapses of critical biological systems whose interactions and dynamics we only imperfectly understand. Uncertainty over the extent of these effects cannot excuse complacency or delay in facing the threat POPULATION The earth is finite. Its ability to absorb wastes and destructive effluent is finite. Its ability to provide food and energy is finite. Its ability to provide for growing numbers of people is finite. And we are fast approaching many of the earth's limits. Current economic practices which damage the environment, in both developed and underdeveloped nations, cannot be continued without the risk that vital global systems will be damaged beyond repair. Pressures resulting from unrestrained population growth put demands on the natural world that can overwhelm any efforts to achieve a sustainable future. If we are to halt the destruction of our environment, we must accept limits to that growth. A World Bank estimate indicates that world population will not stabilize at less than 12.4 billion, while the United Nations concludes that the eventual total could reach 14 billion, a near tripling of today's 5.4 billion. But, even at this moment, one person in five lives in absolute poverty without enough to eat, and one in ten suffers serious malnutrition. No more than one or a few decades remain before the chance to avert the threats we now confront will be lost and the prospects for humanity immeasurably diminished. WARNING We the undersigned, senior members of the world's scientific community, hereby warn all humanity of what lies ahead. A great change in our stewardship of the earth and the life on it, is required, if vast human misery is to be avoided and our global home on this planet is not to be irretrievably mutilated. WHAT WE MUST DO Five inextricably linked areas must be addressed simultaneously: 1. We must bring environmentally damaging activities under control to restore and protect the integrity of the earth's systems we depend on. We must, for example, move away from fossil fuels to more benign, inexhaustible energy sources to cut greenhouse gas emissions and the pollution of our air and water. Priority must be given to the development of energy sources matched to third world needs -- small scale and relatively easy to implement. We must halt deforestation, injury to and loss of agricultural land, and the loss of terrestrial and marine plant and animal species. 2. We must manage resources crucial to human welfare more effectively. We must give high priority to efficient use of energy, water, and other materials, including expansion of conservation and recycling. 3. We must stabilize population. This will be possible only if all nations recognize that it requires improved social and economic conditions, and the adoption of effective, voluntary family planning. 4. We must reduce and eventually eliminate poverty. 5. We must ensure sexual equality, and guarantee women control over their own reproductive decisions. The developed nations are the largest polluters in the world today. They must greatly reduce their overconsumption, if we are to reduce pressures on resources and the global environment. The developed nations have the obligation to provide aid and support to developing nations, because only the developed nations have the financial resources and the technical skills for these tasks. Acting on this recognition is not altruism, but enlightened self-interest: whether industrialized or not, we all have but one lifeboat. No nation can escape from injury when global biological systems are damaged. No nation can escape from conflicts over increasingly scarce resources. In addition, environmental and economic instabilities will cause mass migrations with incalculable consequences for developed and undeveloped nations alike. Developing nations must realize that environmental damage is one of the gravest threats they face, and that attempts to blunt it will be overwhelmed if their populations go unchecked. The greatest peril is to become trapped in spirals of environmental decline, poverty, and unrest, leading to social, economic and environmental collapse. Success in this global endeavor will require a great reduction in violence and war. Resources now devoted to the preparation and conduct of war -- amounting to over $1 trillion annually -- will be badly needed in the new tasks and should be diverted to the new challenges. A new ethic is required -- a new attitude towards discharging our responsibility for caring for ourselves and for the earth. We must recognize the earth's limited capacity to provide for us. We must recognize its fragility. We must no longer allow it to be ravaged. This ethic must motivate a great movement, convince reluctant leaders and reluctant governments and reluctant peoples themselves to effect the needed changes. The scientists issuing this warning hope that our message will reach and affect people everywhere. We need the help of many. We require the help of the world community of scientists -- natural, social, economic, political; We require the help of the world's business and industrial leaders; We require the help of the worlds religious leaders; and We require the help of the world's peoples. We call on all to join us in this task. =============================== PROMINENT INDIVIDUALS AMONG MORE THAN 1,500 SIGNATORIES Anatole Abragam, Physicist; Fmr. Member, Pontifical Academy of Sciences; France Carlos Aguirre President, Academy of Sciences, Bolivia Walter Alvarez Geologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Viqar Uddin Ammad, Chemist, Pakistani & Third World Academies, Pakistan Claude Allegre, Geophysicist, Crafoord Prize, France Michael Alpers Epidemiologist, Inst. of Med. Research, Papua New Guinea Anne Anastasi, Psychologist, National Medal of Science, USA Philip Anderson, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Christian Anfinsen, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; USA How Ghee Ang, Chemist, Third World Academy, Singapore Werner Arber, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Switzerland Mary Ellen Avery, Pediatrician, National Medal of Science, USA Julius Axelrod, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Michael Atiyah, Mathematician; President, Royal Society; Great Britain Howard Bachrach, Biochemist, National Medal of Science, USA John Backus, Computer Scientist, National Medal of Science, USA Achmad Baiquni, Physicist, Indonesian & Third World Academies, Indonesia David Baltimore, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA H. A. Barker, Biochemist, National Medal of Science, USA Francisco J. Barrantes, Biophysicist, Third World Academy, Argentina David Bates, Physicist, Royal Irish Academy, Ireland Alan Battersby, Chemist, Wolf Prize in Chemistry, Great Britain Baruj Benacerraf, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Georg Bednorz, Nobel laureate, Physics; Switzerland Germot Bergold, Inst. Venezolano de Investigaciones Cientificas, Venezuela Sune Bergstrom, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Sweden Daniel Bes, Physicist, Argentinean & Third World Academies, Argentina Hans Bethe, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Arthur Birch Chemist, Australian Academy of Science, Australia Michael Bishop, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Konrad Bloch, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Nicholaas Bloembergen, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA David Mervyn Blow, Wolf Prize in Chemistry, Great Britain Baruch Blumberg, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Bert Bolin, Meteorologist, Tyler Prize, Sweden Norman Borlaug, Agricultural Scientist, Nobel laureate, Peace; USA & Mexico Frederick Bormann, Forest Ecologist; Past President, Ecological Soc. of Amer.; USA Raoul Bott, Mathematician, National Medal of Science, USA Ronald Breslow, Chemist, National Medal of Science Ricardo Bressani, Inst. of Nutrition, Guatemalan & Third World Academies, Guatemala Hermann Bruck, Astronomer, Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Great Britain Gerardo Budowski, Natural Resources, Univ. Para La Paz, Costa Rica E. Margaret Burbidge, Astronomer, National Medal of Science, USA Robert Burris, Biochemist, Wolf Prize in Agriculture, USA Glenn Burton, Geneticist, National Medal of Science, USA Adolph Butenandt, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Fmr. President, Max Planck Inst.; Germany Sergio Cabrera, Biologist, Univ. de Chile, Chile Paulo C. Campos, Medical scientist, Philippine & Third World Academies, Philippines Ennio Candotti, Physicist; President, Brazilian Soc. Adv. of Science; Brazil Henri Cartan, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, France Carlos Chagas, Biologist; Univ. de Rio de Janeiro; Fmr. President, Pontifical Academy of Sciences; Brazil Sivaramakrishna Chandrasekhar, Center for Liquid Crystal Research, India Georges Charpak, Nobel laureate, Physics; France Joseph Chatt, Wolf Prize in Chemistry, Great Britain Shiing-Shen Chern, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, China & USA Christopher Chetsanga, Biochemist, Affican & Third World Academies, Zimbabwe Morris Cohen, Engineering, National Medal of Science, USA Stanley Cohen, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Stanley N. Cohen, Geneticist, Wolf Prize in Medicine, USA Mildred Cohn, Biochemist, National Medal of Science, USA E. J. Corey, Nobel laureate, Chemistry, USA John Cornforth, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain Hector Croxatto, Physiologist, Pontifical & Third World Academies, Chile Paul Crutzen, Chemist, Tyler Prize, Germany Partha Dasgupta, Economist, Royal Society, Great Britain Jean Dausset, Nobel laureate, Medicine; France Ogulande Robert Davidson, Univ. Res. & Dev. Serv., African Acad., Sierra Leone Margaret Davis, Ecologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Luis D'Croz, Limnologist, Univ. de Panama, Panama Gerard Debreu, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA Pierre-Gilles de Gennes, Nobel laureate, Physics; France Johann Deisenhofer, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Germany & USA Frederica de Laguna, Anthropologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Paul-Yves Denis, Geographer, Academy of Sciences, Canada Pierre Deligne, Mathematician, Crafoord Prize, France Frank Dixon, Pathologist, Lasker Award, USA Johanna Dobereiner, Biologist, First Sec., Brazilian Academy of Sci.; Pontifical & Third World Academies, Brazil Joseph Doob, Mathematician, National Medal of Science, USA Renato Dulbecco, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Heneri Dzinotyiweyi, Mathematician, African & Third World Academies, Zimbabwe Manfred Eigen, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Germany Samuel Eilenberg, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, USA Mahdi Elmandjra, Economist; Vice President, African Academy of Sciences; Morocco Paul Ehrlich, Biologist, Crafoord Prize, USA Thomas Eisner, Biologist, Tyler Prize, USA Mohammed T. El-Ashry, Environmental scientist, Third World Academy, Egypt & USA Gertrude Elion, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Aina Elvius, Astronomer, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden K. O. Emery, Oceanographer, National Academy of Sciences, USA Paul Erdos, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, Hungary Richard Ernst, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Switzerland Vittorio Ersparmer, Pharmacologist, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy Sandra Faber, Astronomer, National Academy of Sciences, USA Nina Federoff, Embryologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Herman Feshbach, Physicist, National Medal of Science, USA Inga Fischer-Hjalmars, Biologist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden Michael Ellis Fisher, Physicist, Wolf Prize in Physics, Great Britain & USA Val Fitch, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Daflinn Follesdal, President, Norwegian Academy of Science; Norway William Fowler, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Otto Frankel, Geneticist, Australian Academy of Sciences, Australia Herbert Friedman, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA Jerome Friedman, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Konstantin V. Frolov Engineer; Vice President, Russian Academy of Sciences; Russia Kenichi Fukui, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Japan Madhav Gadgil, Ecologist, National Science Academy, India Mary Gaillard, Physicist, National Academy of Sciences. USA Carleton Gajdusek, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Robert Gallo, Research Scientist, Lasker Award, USA Rodrigo Gamez ,Instituto Nacional de Biodiversidad, Costa Rica Antonio Garcia-Bellido, Biologist, Univ. Auto. Madrid, Royal Society, Spain Leopoldo Garcia-Collin, Physicist, Latin American & Third World Academies, Mexico Percy Garnham, Royal Society & Pontifical Academy, Great Britain Richard Garwin, Physicist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Murray Gell-Mann, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Georgii Georgiev, Biologist, Lenin Prize, Russia Humam Bishara Ghassib, Physicist, Third World Academy, Jordan Ricardo Giacconi, Astronomer, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA Eleanor J. Gibson, Psychologist, National Medal of Science, USA Marvin Goldberger, Physicist; Fmr. President, Calif. Inst. of Tech., USA Maurice Goldhaber, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA Donald Glaser, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Sheldon Glashow, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA James Gowans, Wolf Prize in Medicine, France Roger Green, Anthropologist, Royal Society, New Zealand Peter Greenwood, Ichthyologist, Royal Society, Great Britain Edward Goldberg, Chemist, Tyler Prize, USA Coluthur Gopolan, Nutrition Foundation of India, Indian & Third World Academies, India Stephen Jay Gould, Paleontologist, Author, Harvard Univ., USA Roger Guillemin, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Herbert Gutowsky, Wolf Prize in Chemistry, USA Erwin Hahn, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA Gonzalo Halffter, Ecologist, Inst. Pol. Nac. ,Mexico Kerstin Hall, Endocrinologist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden Mohammed Ahmed Hamdan, Mathematician, Third World, Academy, Jordan Adnan Hamoui, Mathematician, Third World, Academy, Kuwait A. M. Harun-ar Rashid, Physicist; Sec., Bangladesh, Academy of Sci., Bangladesh Mohammed H. A. Hassan, Physicist; Exec. Sec., Third World Academy of Sciences; Sudan & Italy Ahmed Hassanli, Chemist, African Academy of Sciences, Tanzania & Kenya Herbert Hauptman, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; USA Stephen Hawking, Mathematician, Wolf Prize in Physics, Great Britain Elizabeth Hay, Biologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Dudley Herschbach, Nobel laureate, Chemistry, USA Gerhard Herzberg, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Canada Antony Hewish, Nobel laureate, Physics; Great Britain George Hitchings, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain Roald Hoffman, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; USA Robert Holley, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Nick Holonyak, Electrical Engineer, National Medal of Science, USA Lars Hormander, Wolf Prize in Mathematics, Sweden Dorothy Horstmann, Epidemiologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA John Houghton, Meteorologist; Chairman, Science Working Group, IPCC; Great Britain Sarah Hrdy, Anthropologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Kenneth Hsu, Geologist, Third World Academy, China & Switzerland Kun Huang, Physicist, Chinese Academy of Sciences, China Hiroshi Inose, Electrical Engineer; Vice President, Engineering Academy; Japan Turner T. Isoun, Pathologist, African Academy of Sciences, Nigeria Francois Jacob, Nobel laureate, Medicine; France Carl-Olof Jacobson Zoologist; Sec-Gen., Royal Academy of Sciences; Sweden Dorothea Jameson, Psychologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Daniel Janzen, Biologist, Crafoord Prize, USA Cecilia Jarlskog, Physicist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden Louise Johnson, Biophysicist, Royal Society, Great Britain Harold Johnston, Chemist, Tyler Prize, USA Victor A. Kabanov, Chemist, Lenin Prize in Science, Russia Jerome Karle, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Robert Kates, Geographer, National Medal of Science, USA Frederick I. B. Kayanja, Vice-Chnclr., Mbarara Univ., Third World Academy, Uganda Joseph Keller, Mathematician, National Medal of Science, USA Henry Kendall, Nobel laureate, Physics; Chairman, Union of Concerned Scientists; USA John Kendrew, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain Elisabeth Kessler, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden Maung-U Khin, Pediatrician, Third World Academy, Myamnar & USA Gurdev Khush, Agronomist, International Rice Institute, Indian Natl. Sci. Academy, India & Philippines Susan Kieffer, Geologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Klaus von Klitzing, Nobel laureate, Physics; Germany Aaron Klug, Nobel laureate, Chemistry, Great Britain E. F. Knipling, Agricultural Researcher, National Medal of Science, USA Walter Kohn, Physicist, National Medal of Science, USA Janos Kornai, Economist, Hungarian Academy of Science, Hungary Aderemi Kuku, Mathematician, African & Third World Acads., Nigeria Ikuo Kushiro, Geologist, Japan Academy, Japan Devendra Lal, Geophysicist, National Science Academy, India Gerardo Lamas-Muller, Biologist, Museo de Historia Natural, Peru Torvard Laurent, Physiological chemist; President, Royal Academy of Sciences; Sweden Leon Lederman, Nobel laureate, Physics; Chr., Amer. Assn. Adv. Sci.; USA Sang Soo Lee, Physicist, Korean & Third World Academies, Rep. of Korea Yuan T. Lee, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; USA Susan Leeman PharmacologistX National Academy of Sciences, USA Jean Marie Lehn, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; France Wassily Leontief, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA Luna Leopold, Geologist, National Medal of Science, USA Louis Leprince-Ringuet, Physicist, French & Pontifical Academies, France Vladilen Letokhov, Physicist, Lenin Prize in Science, Russia Rita Levi-Montalcini, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA & Italy Li Chang-lin, Environmental Sciences, Fudan University, China Shan Tao Liao, Mathematician, Chinese & Third World Academies, China William Lipscomb, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Jane Lubchenco, Zoologist; President-Elect, Ecological Soc. of Amer.; USA Christopher Magazda, Limnologist, African Academy of Sciences, Zimbabwe Lydia Phindile Makhubu, Chemist, Third World & African Academies, Swaziland Khursheed Ahmad Malik, Microbiologist, Pakistan & Third World Academies, Pakistan & Germany Lynn Margulis, Biologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Paul Marks, Oncologist, National Medal of Science, USA George Martine, Inst. for Study of Society, Population, & Nature; Brazil Frederico Mayor, Biochemist; Dir. Gen., UNESCO, Spain & France Ernst Mayr, Zoologist, National Medal of Science, USA Maclyn McCarty, Wolf Prize in Medicine, USA James McConnell, Physicist, Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Ireland Digby McLaren, Past President, Royal Society of Canada; Canada James Meade, Nobel laureate, Economics; Great Britain Jerrold Meinwald, Chemistry, Tyler Prize, USA M. G. K Menon, Physicist; President, International Council of Scientific Unions; India Gennady Mesiatz, Physicist; Vice President, Russian Academy of Sciences; Russia Jan Michalski, Biologist, Polish Academy of Science, Poland Hartmut Michel, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Germany Brenda Milner, Neurologist, Academy of Sciences, Canada Cesar Milstein, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Argentina & Great Britain Franco Modigliani, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA Andrei Monin, Oceanologist, State Prize, Russia Marcos Moshinsky, Physicist, Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Mexico Nevill Mott, Nobel laureate, Physics; Great Britain Teruaki Mukaiyama, Chemist, Japan Academy, Japan Walter Munk, Geophysicist, National Medal of Science, USA Anne Murray, Ethnographer, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden Joseph Murray, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Noreen Murray, Biologist, Royal Society, Great Britain Lawrence Mysak, Meteorologist; Vice President, Academy of Science, Royal Society of Canada; Canada Jayant Vishnu Narlikar, Astrophysicist, Indian & Third World Academies, India Anwar Nasim, Biologist, Third World Academy, Saudi Arabia Kim Nasmyth, Biologist, Royal Society, Great Britain & Austria James Neel, Geneticist, National Medal of Science, USA Louis Neel, Nobel laureate, Physics; France Yuval Ne'eman, Physicist, Natl. Acad. of Sci. & Humanities, Israel Oleg M. Nefedov, Chemist; Vice President, Russian Academy of Sciences; Russia Erwin Neher, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Germany Marshall Nirenberg, Biochemist; Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Yasutomi Nishizuka, Biochemist, Lasker Award, Japan John S. Nkoma, Physicist, Third World Academy, Botswana Paul Nchoji Nkvvi, Anthropologist, African Academy, Cameroon Howard Odum, Ecologist, Crafoord Prize, USA Bede Nwoye Okigbo, Agricultural Scientist; Dir., U.N. Unv. Pgm. Natrl. Res. in Afr.; Nigeria & Kenya Ayub Khan Ommaya, Neurobiologist, Third World Academy, Pakistan & USA Cyril Agodi Onwumechili, Physicist, Fmr. Pres., Nigerian Acad. of Sciences, Nigeria & Great Britain Mary Jane Osborn, Microbiologist, National Academy of Scientists, USA Yuri Ossipyan, Physicist; Vice President, Russian Academy of Sciences; Russia Autzr Singh Paintal, Physiologist, Fmr. President, Indian National Science Academy, India George Pake, Physicist, National Medal of Science, USA George Palade, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Mary Lou Pardue, Biologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Linus Pauling, Nobel laureate, Chemistry & Pence, USA Barbara Pearse, Molecular Biologist, Royal Society, Great Britain Muhammed Abed Peerally, Biologist, Third World Academy, Mauritius Manuel Peimbert, Astronomer, Univ. Nac. Aut. de Mexico, Mexico Roger Penrose, Mathematician, Wolf Prize in Physics, Great Britain John Philip, Agricultural Science, Australian Academy of Science, Australia Lilian Pickford, Physiologist, Royal Society, Great Britain John R. Pierce, Electrical Engineer, National Medal of Science, USA John Polanyi, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Canada George Porter, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain Ilya Prigogine, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Belgium Giampietro Puppi, Physicist, Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Italy Edward Purcell, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Atta ur-Rahman, Chemist, Pakistani & Third World Academies, Pakistan G. N. Ramachandran, Mathematician, Inst. of Science, India Tiruppattur Ramakrishnan, Physicist, Indian & Third World Academies, India Chintamani Rao, Inst. of Science, Indian and Pontifical Academies, India Eduardo Rapoport, Ecologist, Third World Academy, Argentina Marianne Rasmuson, Geneticist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden Peter Raven, Director, Missouri Botanical Garden; National Academy of Sciences, USA Martin Rees, Astronomer, Royal Society & Pontifical Academy, Great Britain Gerardo Reichel-Dolmatoff, Anthropologist, Columbian & Third World Academies, Columbia Tadeus Reichstein, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Switzerland Frederick Reines, Physicist, National Medal of Science, USA Alexander Rich, Biologist, National & Pontifical Academies, USA Burton Richter, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Ralph Riley, Wolf Prize in Agriculture, Great Britain Claude Rimington, Inst. for Cancer Research, Norwegian Academy of Science, Norway Gustavo Rivas Mijares, Engineer; Fmr. President, Academy of Sciences, Venezuela Frederick Robbins, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Wendell Roelofs, Entomologist, National Medal of Science, USA Betty Roots, Zoologist, Academy of Sciences, Canada Miriam Rothschild, Biologist, Royal Society, Great Britain Sherwood Rowland, Chemist; President, American Association for the Advancement of Science; USA Janet Rowley, Physician, National Academy of Sciences, USA Carlo Rubbia, Nobel laureate, Physics, Italy & Switzerland Vera Rubin, Physicist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Yuri Rudenko, Energy Research Inst., State Prize laureate, Russia Elizabeth Russell, Jackson Laboratory, National Academy of Sciences, USA Albert Sabin, Virologist, National Medal of Science, USA Carl Sagan, Astrophysicist & Author, USA Roald Sagdeev, Physicist, Russian & Pontifical Academies, Russia & USA Ruth Sager, Geneticist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Farrokh Saidi, Surgeon, Third World Academy, Iran Abdus Salam, Nobel laureate, Physics; President, Third World Academy of Sciences, Pakistan & Italy Frederick Sanger, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain Jose Sarukhan, Biologist, Third World Academy, Mexico Berta Scharrer,Neuroscientist, National Medal of Science, USA Richard Schultes, Botanist, Tyler Prize, USA Melvin Schwartz, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Julian Schwinger, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Glenn Seaborg, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA Michael Sela, Weizmann Inst., Pontifical Academy of Science, Israel Arne Semb-Johansson, Entomologist, Norwegian Academy of Science, Norway Salimuzzaman Siddiqui, Chemist, Pontifical & Third World Academies, Pakistan Kai Siegbahn, Nobel laureate, Physics; Sweden Thomas Silou, Biochemist, African Academy of Sciences, Congo Herbert Simon, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA Alexej Sitenko, Physicist, Ukrainian Academy of Sciences, Ukraine Jens Skou, Biophysicist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Denmark Charles Slack, Agricultural Science, Royal Society, New Zealand George Snell, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Roger Sperry, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Alexander Spirin, Biologistn Lenin Prize, Russia Earl Stadtman, Biochemist, National Medal of Science, USA Thressa Stadtman, Biochemist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Ledyard Stebbins, Geneticist, National Medal of Science, USA Jack Steinberger, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA & Switzerland Janos Szentgothai, Fmr. President, Hungarian Academy of Sciences; Hungary Tan Jia-zhen, Geneticist, Shanghai Univ., China Andrezej Tarkowski, Embryologist, Polish [text missing] Valentine Telegdi, Wolf Prize in Physics, Switzerland Kirthi Tennakone, Physicist, Third World Academy, Sri Lanka Walter Thirring, Physicist, Austrian & Pontifical Academies, Austria Donnall Thomas, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Jan Tinbergen, Nobel laureate, Economics; Netherlands Samuel C. C. Ting, Nobel laureate, Physics; USA James Tobin, Nobel laureate, Economics; USA Alexander Todd, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain Susumu Tonegawa, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Japan & USA Cheng Kui Tseng, Oceanologist, Chinese & Third World Academies, China Hans Tuppy, Biochemist, Austrian & Pontifical Academies, Austria James Van Allen, Physicist, Crafoord Prize, USA Simon van der Meer, Nobel laureate, Physics; Netherlands & Switzerland John Vane, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Great Britain Harold Varmus, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Martha Vaughan, Biochemist, National Academy of Sciences, USA George Wald, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Henrik Wallgren, Zoologist, Society of Science & Letters, Finland E. T. S. Walton, Nobel laureate, Physics, Ireland Prawase Wasi, Hematologist, Third World Academy, Thailand Gerald Wasserburg, Geophysicist, Crafoord Prize, USA James Watson, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Victor Weisskopf, Wolf Prize in Physics, USA Thomas Weller, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Diter von Wettstein, Physiologist, Royal Academy of Sciences, Denmark Fred Whipple, Astronomer, National Academy of Sciences, USA Gilbert White, Geographer, Tyler Prize, USA Torsten Wiesel, Nobel laureate, Medicine; USA Jerome Wiesner, Physicist, Fmr. President, Mass. Inst. of Tech., USA Maurice Wilkins, Nobel laureate, Medicine; Great Britain Geoffrey Wilkinson, Nobel laureate, Chemistry; Great Britain Richard Willems, Geneticist, Estonian Biocentre, Estonia Edward O. Wilson, Biologist, Crafoord Prize, USA Lawrence A. Wilson, Agricultural Science, Third World Academy, Trinidad Evelyn Witkin, Biologist, National Academy of Sciences, USA Yang Fujia, Physicist, Chinese & Third World Academies, China Alexander L. Yanshin, Geologist, Karpinsky Gold Medal, Russia Yongyuth Yuthavong, Biochemist; Director, National Sci. & Tech. Devl. Agency, Thailand Zhao Zhong-xian, Physicist, Chinese & Third World Academies, China Zhou Guang-zhao, Physicist; President, Chinese Academy of Sciences;, China Solly ZuckerInan, Zoologist, Royal Society, Great Britain ============================= Over 1,500 members of national, regional, and international science academies have signed the Warning. Sixtynine nations from all parts of Earth are represented, including each of the twelve most populous nations and the nineteen largest economic powers. The full list includes a majority of the Nobel laureates in the sciences. Awards and institutional affiliations are listed for the purpose of identification only. The Nobel Prize in medicine is for physiology or medicine. ============================== Union of Concerned Scientists, 96 Church Street, Cambridge, Mass 02238-9105, USA ucs@igc.apc.org Phone - 617-547-5552 Fax - 617-864-9405 [Warning issued on November 18, 1992] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 21:32:39 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Budget i watched the discussion about the new budget for the United Kingdom. though i have not much understanding of economics i feelt quite depressed. the whole country with 200 years or more of technological revolution seem to have no understanding of what is happening to them the politician completely moblized the country with stupid nonsense of saving 2 or 3 sterlen for a family a week, can you belive that from a socity stocked with information. i can accept that from a country in africa where people are illitrate but when i see a country like England sccuming to so trival ideas i wonder what will become of the future. politician with history of the bank of England and the so called Exchquer behind them dealing and wheeling in an old theories of balancing budgets and stimulating the economy one is reminded of 19,18 century Englalnd and Dickensen writing as if we have not moved an inch. this really convinces me that specialized plants are prone to sikness because of the lack of general adaptability. it seems that the media is growing plants in people heads. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 16:15:12 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Dymaxion Bathroom Manufacturer In 50 years of Design Science Revolution and the World Game, it shows a German company ad in August 1967, which has made a plastic version of the Dymaxion bathroom. Does anyone know if this is still available for purchase, and if so where? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 14:51:33 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Brant Subject: Re: trimtabing NYC I wasn't aware that money is an issue for people in this communty; although it doesn't suprize me. Our society is so messed up when it comes to supporting people in making a living at what they really want to do in their hearts. Anyway, my profession - the quality management profession - uses a body of knowledge (tools, I call them) that are designed to assist people and organizations in adapting to the changing world in which they live. In the most leading edge situations, people and organizations are supported in pro-actively developing strategic plans that will enable them to take the lead in their industies. The best book on this that I've found is "Competing for the Future", by Hamel and Prahalad (Harvard Business School Press, 1994). I am working within my profession to adapt these tools (Stephen Covey's "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" are some more) to the transformation of society. The theory being that, once enough people realize that the "organization" of society is broken, they will ask for people like myself to help make society work better. The product we in the quality management profession have developed is called the Community Quality Council. These councils are essentially places where people can learn the cooperation and team-based tools of quality management and learn how to apply them to solving community problems. One of the key tools is "continual learning," which requires that you acknowledge you don't "know it all," which opens you up to learning new solutions based on new information (such as Bucky's vision, etc.). As far as the money goes (sorry to take so long to get to this point), it is slowly dawning on people - especially in the business community - that this Community Quality Council concept makes sense. There's not much money being made from it yet. But people within the profession - acting as "pioneers" - are working to develop and promote the concept. Ultimately, we can have lots of "learning communities" filled with people in search of new ideas, until one day a critical mass is reached and all of society "flips." (or is it flips out?) This is the basis of my business. Fortunately, I am financially able to do this for a while, knowing that the money will show up eventually. Hope this info helps. Steve Brant ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:04:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Reading recommendations? Mike Markowski asked: >Anyway, now that I've got a feel for Fuller's ideas and goals, >what would be a good book to read next? Which book(s) would provide >good technical descriptions/derivations of his work? Both "The Dymaxion World Of Buckminster Fuller" and "Inventions" have some decent technical descriptions. "Inventions" includes photos and the patent applications for Bucky's major works, so it is by far the superior reference text. "Dymaxion World" has photos and descriptions, but little except questions arise from a technical-oriented read of the book. I work the day shift at the Idea Factory james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:04:18 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: ETHANOL vs Methane M. Tagdi said: > If I remember right the alcohol breweries in U.S, if converted > into alchol for energy production it will supply 10% of > the country demand. This would cause a merger of AA and the AAA. I guess we would call it the "AAAAA". I think that I'll put a bar in the back of my car, and drive myself to drink!!! (Non US readers: AA is "Alcoholics Anonymous", a group for recovering alcoholics. AAA is the "American Automobile Association", the auto club and towing service.) > Ethanol is prefered to methane was't that what James Fischer once wrote. >Correction please. Well, the multi-national agri-business conglomerates (like Cargil corp) "like" ethanol, as it must be grown, harvested, and processed. Since this sort of a process is capital intensive, it is a great "solution" for large corporations (like Cargil and ADM) to promote. The process is nearly beyond the abilities of the small-time operation. These large companies are verically integrated to handle the entire process, right down to shipping tanker truckloads and shiploads of product. But but BUT: 1) Why grow grain to make fuel, when the same land (and in some cases, crop) can feed people? Starving people should rate higher than internal combustion engines. Sadly, they don't. 2) Methane is a by-product of natural decomposition. Ethanol REQUIRES energy to refine. I would rather see the more efficient methane process win, since the NET fuel gain is much better. 3) Methane is created from waste. I like the waste-into-fuel concept, since it turns waste into a valued "resource". No one "throws away" a valuable resource, so this might reduce pressure on the waste processing end of the infrastructure. Crops should be food for people. Wastes from BOTH the food creation and food consumption cycle can THEN be used to make methane. 4) Some hog and cattle farmers make methane today from the biological wastes created by their animals. It is easy to do, and does not require a large capital investment or high-tech equipment. It also makes the large piles of waste "go away" in the process. This is is exactly why the large companies do not investigate or promote methane, since the large companies could not get a "monopoly" on the production of methane. 5) If the yogurt hit the fan today, and the infrastructure, government, and support systems broke down overnight, the FIRST fuel to be available for autos would be methane, simply because it does not take a graduate degree in chemistry to make the stuff. We are talking about "compost pile technology" here, so all you need is some animals, some greenery (grass, leaves, whatever), and a few tanks that can hold water. One could "disover" methane by trial and error, with nothing more than the above sentence as instructions, if one were motivated. 6) Methane can run more than autos. You could burn it to heat a house, run an arc-welder, and even make some explosives to break up rock (or dig a foundation, if you are very impatient!!). Ethanol does not have multi-use properties, since it is less volatile. 7) Methane is inherently safe. If you have a leak, you will notice, since the stuff smells terrible. Natural gas must have a "bad smell" added to it, at some small extra cost. Anyone using methane has a built-in alarm system that tends to evacuate the area near any leak. Nice, eh? I work the day shift at the Idea Factory james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 16:17:31 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Jetstream Trailer >From my limited knowledge of the Jetstream trailer, it seems very much in line with Fuller's ideals of a Dymaxion lifestyle. (In fact, it even resembles the Dymaxion car) I would be interested in any information on this trailer, and in particular some scale floorplans. Thanks, Bill bpaton@inforamp.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 22:00:18 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Bucky & Triangles >Also, Bucky approached thinking in a 3 way approach which was an unusual >way to evaluate thinking. > >As an aside, when I told an architect friend of mine that many of his >systems were based on triangles, she asked if he was a Cancer zodiac. I >said yes and she said that Cancers are like crabs, they move side to side. Fuller talks about crabs in his article about truth and how we avoid it, a dog pleases his owner but that is not deception, crab walk side ways.... but i thought Fuller is Gemini like me. >I would be interested in anybody's thoughts on these ideas, as I would >like to put together a paper about Bucky and triangles, which would >examine Bucky and also the importance of a new approach in Western >thinking. i was just thinking that if you move through the diagonal of a cube it will take you 12 units if you use the xyz to trace the diagnoal while if you move through the tetrahedron it cost you only 6 units. taking the adge to be = 1. i think you can experience this walking around in N.Y city. nature is very economical zigzaging her structure, we have not began even to understand the very basis of nature stratagy. Tagdi the behaviour of the whole unpredicted by the parts. crabs are fine by me. >You can e-mail me at:bpaton@inforamp.net or send replies to this newsgroup > >Bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 14:41:27 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jim Farrell Subject: Removal of my name ... I subscribed to this list a long time ago while I was in school. My school mail is now forwarded to my new account, but I do not have access to that account anymore -- thus I cannot send mail out under my old address (I would just SMTP spoof it, but our firewall won't allow it) and delete myself from this list. Could the maintainer of this list please remove my address from this list? The address to remove is "jwf@esu.edu". Thanks. -jim ,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-, Jim Farrell | phone 610-940-6020 | Platinum technology Network Administrator | vmail 800-526-9096 x7512 | 620 W. Germantown Pike jwf@platinum.com | fax 610-940-6021 | Plymouth Meeting,Pa,19462 '~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~' ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 17:17:46 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Dymaxion Bathroom Manufacturer In-Reply-To: ; from "bill paton" at Nov 28, 95 4:15 pm bill paton writes: > > In 50 years of Design Science Revolution and the World Game, it shows a > German company ad in August 1967, which has made a plastic version of the > Dymaxion bathroom. > > Does anyone know if this is still available for purchase, and if so where? > That company in Germany was BASF. Don't know if they or someone else is making it, though. See _Dymaxion World of BF_, pages 94-101 for more info. Also _Inventions_, pages 40-52 and U.S.Patent #2,220,482. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 17:43:42 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Jetstream Trailer In-Reply-To: ; from "bill paton" at Nov 28, 95 4:17 pm bill paton writes: > > From my limited knowledge of the Jetstream trailer, it seems very much in > line with Fuller's ideals of a Dymaxion lifestyle. (In fact, it even > resembles the Dymaxion car) I would be interested in any information on > this trailer, and in particular some scale floorplans. Thanks, Bill > bpaton@inforamp.net I think they are called "Airstream". Check the yellow pages for your local dealer. I'm sure he would be delighted to give you some literature that has floorplans. It occurred to me that a top of the line travel trailer inside a geodesic dome tent would come fairly close to the criteria of a fire- bug- rot= hurricane- earthquakeproof, - selfcontained- portable home. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 22:06:35 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Jetstream Trailer Joe Moore said: >It occurred to me that a top of the line travel trailer inside a geodesic dome >tent would come fairly close to the criteria of a fire- bug- rot= hurricane- >earthquakeproof, - selfcontained- portable home. Joe, come on! We all know that all hurricanes and tornados head straight for the nearest trailer park!!! If I give your list some thought (rather than just poking fun), any dome is problematic in an earthquake, since the entire rigidity of the structure depends upon the dome being anchored to the earth. In an earthquake, the earth moves, so perhaps the dome deforms or fails (falls down) due to the anchored points being moved relative to each other. Soils can also become rather "liquid" in an earthquake (not my term) so one's foundation can "settle" rather abruptly. I would guess that an "earthquake-proof dome" would have a "floor" of sorts, to provide an independent base. If one did not anchor it to the ground, one would be more earthquake-resistant, but the bad news is that one would then be subject to hurricanes/tornados... I guess one must just admit that hurricanes are a low risk in California, and earthquakes are a low risk in Florida. Ya pays your money, and takes your chances... I work the day shift at the Idea Factory james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 22:37:14 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marcia Blackburn Subject: new addition to "toy" index I've just picked up a wonderful icosahedron toy at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. It's called "The Original Skwish Classic" and is manufactured by Pappa Gepetto's Toys Victoria Ltd., Box 98, Victoria, B.C. V8W 2M4 CANADA. It's made of multicolored wood parts connected with black tension cable. Entrancing! - Marcia Blackburn oh, it was $16.00. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:18:58 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: syn-l: Re: ST.JOHN DIVINE EVENT oh shucks [but why do they have to hold these things under the auspices of the 1st Church of England?... easy, because they couldn't get away with doing it under the 2nd Church of Christ, Newton !-] ----- A Fermatio-Gaussian Conjecture: F^+(2^N) + F^-(2^N) is prime, where F is the golden mean and N is 0,1,2... (it works for the first five .-) ----- On Palmtree BBS: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:21:01 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: ETHANOL well, but what is the feedstock for these critters?... if it's corn etc., forget it! ----- A Fermatio-Gaussian Conjecture: F^+(2^N) + F^-(2^N) is prime, where F is the golden mean and N is 0,1,2... (it works for the first five .-) ----- On Palmtree BBS: brihut@pro-palmtree.cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 04:45:26 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steven L Combs Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Subject: Dimension & Volume "Arithmetical three-dimensionality is identified with volumetric space growth rates; Arithmetical four-dimensionality is unidentifiable geometrically; " Synergetics 240.44 Of course Bucky uses the term dimension in many different ways at different times, but these corollaries apply to the question of defining objects in space. Bucky did not invent the tetrahedron nor was he the first dome-builder. However, his quanta modules are original (to my knowledge) and are actually the units of volume that Synergetics is built upon. The A, B, and T quanta are equi-volumed (1/24th unit tetrahedron) assymetrical tetrahedra. But it would have been pointless to answer our questioner with the response, "The volume of a tetrahedron is 24 quanta modules." Unless, of course, she had asked for its quanta volume. Since the quantas combine to fill allspace and can define both cubes and tetrahedra (as well as the geodesics), these are the volumetric units we should be using. Interestingly, the A & B Isomatrix quanta 1/192 unit tetrahedra are the electron models of the Synergetic Atomic Model and the E Quanta is the strong force model. Bucky's habit of considering any thing to be a spherical system with 12 degrees of freedom led him away from cartesian cubism, but we need to be bi-lingual to avoid being hopelessly self-referential. Sincerely, Steven Combs Syncorswim, Inc. p.s. - we never did hear back from that kid, did we? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 12:52:34 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Dimension & Volume In Message Wed, 29 Nov 1995 04:45:26 +0000 (GMT), Steven L Combs writes: >"Arithmetical three-dimensionality is identified with volumetric space >growth rates; >Arithmetical four-dimensionality is unidentifiable geometrically; " > > Synergetics 240.44 Tag the second sentence is not clear, i thought he asid that 4d is also volumetrically identifible. > > Of course Bucky uses the term dimension in many different ways at >different times, but these corollaries apply to the question of defining >objects in space. >we should be using. Interestingly, the A & B Isomatrix quanta 1/192 unit >tetrahedra are the electron models of the Synergetic Atomic Model and the >E Quanta is the strong force model. what is 1/192, i have the idea that A and B are only 1/24 of tetrahedron. and can you say somthing about E. Bucky's habit of considering any thing to be a spherical system with >12 degrees of freedom led him away from cartesian cubism, but we need to >be bi-lingual to avoid being hopelessly self-referential. >Sincerely, 12 degree of freedom is quite puzziling concept, fuller talks about it gosmpgraphy where child learns 5 out of this 6 degree of freedom, of course the 6th is precession. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 12:27:20 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: Dymaxion Bathroom Manufacturer In Message Tue, 28 Nov 1995 16:15:12 +0000 (GMT), bill paton writes: >In 50 years of Design Science Revolution and the World Game, it shows a >German company ad in August 1967, which has made a plastic version of the >Dymaxion bathroom. > >Does anyone know if this is still available for purchase, and if so where? i am very intrested in selling this bathroom to countries around the meditteranian sea, they have water problems there. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 09:38:21 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Kirby on Bosnia (sort of) and the Fuller Projection Thoughts on Bosnia (only tangentially related actually) My feeling on the Bosnia situation is I'd be a lot happier if the anti-nationalism thread, encapsulated in the Fuller Projection, which I delight in describing as 'copy-protected against showing political states', were given stronger currency in cyberspace. Questioning the political solution to age-old survival issues is not a strident, militant exercise, but a remixing of instruments, more muting here, more amplification there. A lot of the most unstable nations were drawn into existence, did not arise organically from ethnic affiliations or other bonds of human networking. Even some of the more organic states have a shallow and artificial ring to them today. Today, the topologies that bind human-to-human, even simple ethnographic binding, is too complex to fit onto a two-dimensional map. The nation-state jigsaw puzzle is not a solution, but is part of the problem. Communities in many disparate parts of the world feel common ties, and are integrated financially, culturally, without having any geographical turf that puts them inside, everyone else outside. It has gotten too mixed up for that now. What I'd like to see is well-funded World Game displays giving us lots of data about where all the armaments are coming from. Where exactly are the manufacturers, what are the brand names, the prices? Where do all these people get weapons so easily to push this or that cause? Who makes money selling weapons? This should not be arcane knowledge for the paid analysts in cubicles someplace, but common knowledge accessible to any 6th grader who wants to know. Lots of people take their nation-states very seriously and never question their integrity as human contrivances designed to solve certain problems. This will continue to be the case. But some of us do not see this theater as quality drama, and question the right of political pundits to monopolize the world stage with their sage lines and proposed scenarios, would like a greater mix and variety, especially with a focus on possible near futures that would be too interesting and intelligent and worth living in to make war seem such an attractive alternative. If history a few years from now is going to have a lot less interest in nations and nationalism, then being a hero or martyr for this or that nation maybe won't seem so attractive to the young impressionables anxious to go out in a blaze of glory, taking as many of the enemy with them as possible etc. Not a channel that's going to get high ratings. Not a show we're going to waste much time on in future. Maybe time to learn some new roles and get out of the guns and coffins routine. Get this: a lot of us kids don't see your nations on our maps, and we don't care to learn about them as political entities. We do not care for boundaries and wonder why you do. Not an apathetic 'not caring' or ignorant laziness but a willful, intentional, focused not-tuning-in, not recognizing, as an exercise of personal freedom to not have history ram itself down our throats. Again, this is just a thread, a bias, which is needed, in my estimation, to balance a seriously off-balance focus on nation-states as now and forever more. We have so many nations facing exponentially increasing debt loads (including the US, but I'm less concerned about that), sacrificing the education of children, health care, to pay back what in many cases was borrowed by political leaders to feather their own nests, to finance ill-conceived projects contracted out to political cronies. Now the children must pay with their futures. In 'Grunch of Giants', Fuller suggests a compassionate way out, wherein we hit the reset button on the ruinous sovereign state accounting system which from within is not suggesting any real fixes, beyond short term bandaid bailouts. The compassionate perspective is from without, seeing the Earth from space, as one, whole, bathed in a generous energy income, but not blessed with infinite time to make mistakes without learning from them. So I circle the Fuller Projection and say I do not believe in these nations, even as I pay taxes, vote sometimes, pay attention to national affairs. I see drama, scripts, acting. I see theater. But I no longer willingly suspend my disbelief. And what I propose in place of political Great Tragedy is also drama, scripts, acting. Nothing new -- but I'd suggest new plot lines, definitely. The show must go on. Kirby Urner after tuning in a lot of Bosnia stuff via the media -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:38:02 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dave suwala Subject: ETHANOL vs methane > Methane is inherently safe. If you have a leak, you will > notice, since the stuff smells terrible. Natural gas must have a > "bad smell" added to it, at some small extra cost. Anyone using > methane has a built-in alarm system that tends to evacuate the > area near any leak. Nice, eh? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I must remind J. Fischer of the canaries that used to be used in the coal mines in the early days of the industrial revolution to detect marsh gas. Methane like all of the other hydrocarbons that are gases at room temperature (ethane, propane, butane) is odorless. Sulfur compounds (mercaptan) are added to any odorless hydrocarbon (natural gas, gasoline) for detection purposes. The smell of methane from anaerobic decomposition is due to other strong smelling compounds (amines) that are produced in the process. The discussion of fuels is particularly interesting. Rather Malthusian but inevitable. As we proliferate the automobile (the world has discovered the wonders of automobility through our satellite transmissions of our American lifestyle) the engineers will have to begin to use sources of energy as yet untapped. You have been discussing fuels based on corn (ethanol) and animal waste (methane). How about the more direct utilization of solar power? The amorphous silicon solar cell has increased in efficiency so that in a few years we may be roofing our houses with them. The energy, currently being wasted, will be stored in cells and used to charge the batteries of our electric cars and the excess sent back to the grid. Windmill farms, wave action devices, hydroelectric dams are all ways of gathering energy and concentrating it. The most convenient form of power will be the electrons kept in a storage battery. Liquids like ethanol can be used directly in the ICV (internal combustion vehicle) but methane has inherent problems with storage since it is a gas. Dave.Suwala@Reichhold.Com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:59:36 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dave suwala Subject: Kirby on Bosnia (sort of) >In 'Grunch of Giants', Fuller suggests a compassionate way out, >wherein we hit the reset button on the ruinous sovereign state >accounting system which from within is not suggesting any real >fixes, beyond short term bandaid bailouts. The compassionate >perspective is from without, seeing the Earth from space, as one, >whole, bathed in a generous energy income, but not blessed with >infinite time to make mistakes without learning from them. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I'm afraid that as good as our current government appears (Clinton in his peace-making role, Gingrich in his budget-balancing role) the environment that we all live within spirals down to a low gravy anyway. I always wonder whether our efforts in space will be rewarded by a breakout from this injured earth. But I guess that men will be as damaging to the galaxy and universe as they have been to Bangladesh, NYC, our fishing grounds, etc. I wonder whether we will use up all of the convenient chemical fuel before we develop systems (Biosphere 2, for example) capable of enabling us to survive in space or on the planets and grab and use more stuff exponentially and synergetically. Where can I find "Grunch of Giants"? Always looking for more literature on Bucky Fuller. Compassionately but stoically, Dave.Suwala@Reichhold.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:25:25 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: ETHANOL In-Reply-To: ; from "Brian Hutchings" at Nov 28, 95 11:21 am Brian Hutchings writes: > > well, but what is the feedstock for these critters?... if > it's corn etc., forget it! Sawdust, forestry residue, agriculture leavings, waste paper, etc. Anything with xylose in it. Research done at the National Renewable Energy Lab, Golden, CO. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:45:21 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Kirby on Bosnia (sort of) In-Reply-To: <9510298176.AA817664733@reichhold.com>; from "dave suwala" at Nov 29, 95 8:59 am dave suwala writes: > > Where can I find "Grunch of Giants"? Always looking for more > literature on Bucky Fuller. > > Compassionately but stoically, > > Dave.Suwala@Reichhold.com The Buckminster Fuller Institute sells it: bfi@aol.com; 805-962-0022 Ask for their catalog and a sample newsletter. -- JOE S MOORE joemoore@cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:30:23 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Fw: Re: WEALTH AS ENERGY HOW TO BECOM A MILLIONIARE >Hello Nick, Greetings Tagdi, Just catching up on my email, after the Thanksgiving holiday... >>This is a clever "oil burner," that costs about $10K, but it can pay for itself >>in 3-5 years, vs. the infinite payback period for an ordinary oil burner, by >>making 5 kW of electricity while it is heating a house. The interface is an >>ordinary circuit breaker in the service panel, the kind you would use for an >>electric range. > > every few days or so i send one section, i hope it is ok with you . OK... > how much electricity in kw you need to light, heat a house? For everything except electric heat, some people get by with very little, eg 80 kWh/month. I use closer to 400 kWh/month, which is about 600 watts on a continuous basis. Simple resistance electric heat might use 60kWh/day in the winter, for a small house. Perhaps half that if the electric heat comes from a heat pump, ie an air conditioner running backwards, that cools the outside and warms the inside of the house in the winter. > and is 10k means 10,000 dollars. Yes. >what is ordinary circuit breaker? The thing that shuts off the electrical power to a circuit when the circuit is drawing too much current for safety. Usually located in the fuse box of a house, near where the main electrical supply wire comes into the house. > you mean the one were your electricy can cut off. I am not sure what you mean by that... The fuse box usually has a main switch or circuit breaker too, to turn off all the electricity in the house... > you see i am not cadget oriented. Yes. But I also see that you can learn fast. > Burning home heating oil, it's pretty efficient. About 93%, with a 1 1/2" PVC >>fluepipe and a 150F exhaust gas temperature. Inside the 800 lb box is an 11 HP >>diesel made by Lister-Petter, and an induction generator. When the house >>thermostat calls for heat, the induction generator acts as a motor to start >>the diesel from the 220 volt line. Then it becomes a generator, making the >>meter run backwards, if legally permitted. (In some states, you need two >>meters.) When the house is warm enough, the diesel engine stops running. > > is the pipe where the exhaust goes which heats the house. The pipe takes the diesel fumes out of the house. The house is heated by hot water, which is what cools the diesel engine. The unit circulates the hot water through radiators in the house. >i take it that the clever burner weights 800 lb. Yes. About 400 kg. >induction generator can you explain. This is really just a common kind of electric motor. If you connect it to the power line, and let it spin, it works as a motor. If you spin the shaft 6% faster than it normally goes, it puts power back into the power line... >>Of course you have to put sandbags all over the kitchen floor, to keep the >>dishes from rattling off the shelves... :-) It's actually fairly quiet, 60 dBA >>2 meters away, with good shock mounts as well as acoustic skins. >> >>The unit has a built-in circulator pump, which runs the engine block cooling >>water thru baseboard radiators, a duct heat exchanger, a fan coil unit, an >>indirect-fired water heater, a hot tub or swimming pool heat exchanger, etc. >>55,000 Btu/hr. 85,000, max, in "turbo-mode" :-) if the microprocessor senses >>more heat is needed and diverts the electrical output to turn on some heaters >>in the water stream, instead of feeding it back to the electric company. >>(Don't ask me how 5 kW makes 30K Btu/hour, perhaps a bug in the spec.) > > i am going to look at engin drawing see if get this if not i'll ask you. OK... Nick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:49:12 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: syn-l: Re: psicospace Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com there was a short piece over methen gas in the news last night CBS i do not have good memory for this sort of names, but any way they talked about the possible storage in the ocean floor of enoromous amounts of methen. what was interesting is they showed a picture of the atomic structure of methen which is tetrahedron but becuse it is frozen and in mud, the stucture surrounding it was pentdodecahedron. i thought that might be intresting since Richard is discussing similar structures(one is the timestar). Tagdi p.s it might be that the continuity of calculus and the idea of plane and line which we inherit not only from schools but also from our local culture divert us from the understanding of discontunity in nature( natural forms and nonsmoltanity time are discontinuous) as a model of reality they are 180 degree different from the classic one. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 20:08:00 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Virtual reality i have little understanding of politics, any one who really know quite intresting pattrens can send, but not the common sort of ideas. any way it is the end of the year and some countries are talking about budgets and thier next election( remember the 4 short years) thier view is really tied with thier illusion that they are living like bourgeoisie which really not true, acually they are very trifty and when they get a good meal they act like children of poverty of course they hide that reflex. what i really want to say is this in BBC last night they illustratee how effect of next year budget on different families they used virtual reality screen and moved in this virtual city and it was nice experience. i thought we can use that virtual reality in world game, in the idea Kirrby is suggesting of documenting the spread of weapon, and in many other things, the possibility is great. If you want to teach a lot of people about the glob and the pattren which can lead it to success you better be as simple and clear as possible. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 20:29:19 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: World Scientists Warning to Humanity Comments: To: ucs@igc.apc.org >Over 1,500 members of national, regional, and international >science academies have signed the Warning. Sixtynine >nations from all parts of Earth are represented, including >each of the twelve most populous nations and the nineteen >largest economic powers. The full list includes a majority >of the Nobel laureates in the sciences. Awards and >institutional affiliations are listed for the purpose of >identification only. The Nobel Prize in medicine is for >physiology or medicine. i think you should send a copy of this to the head office of the 500 larges corrporation. since MN deal and wheel with about 1/3 of world resources and trade, they should be responsible. there is a lot of redundancy in human behavour that include scientest they replicate their work hundreds of times, so they are contributing to the pollution of information which also have great relation to specialization. they might meet but when they go back to thier Universities they propogate what they are warrning about. one of the first priorities is to eliminate buracracy and paper, and use geodesic relation to work with other scientest, you have to move like an electron or a wave. M.Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 21:12:11 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Hunger and Nutrition if hunger brolongs the stomach begins to secrete chimical juices which bulge the stomach and the picture you saw of hungry Africans is related to that. it is absolutly essential that if humanbeing to survive that there be a plants he can eat near by. Fuller talks about the beginning of humanity in south east Asia, i think he had a very probable hypothesis. this is dealing with history on scientific basis and not on superstition and lack of evidence of specialization. second part: does anyone know somthing about nutrition, and what is the best way to avoid some deficiency in hard times, somtimes there is a week of late payment and bourcratic delys which creats a lot of stress. this leads to panick and not knowing how to chose good diet. please be simple and include vegetables. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 14:33:31 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dave suwala Subject: Re: syn-l: Re: psicospace >there was a short piece over methen gas in the news last night CBS >i do not have good memory for this sort of names, but any way they >talked about the possible storage in the ocean floor of enoromous >amounts of methen. what was interesting is they showed a picture of >the atomic structure of methen which is tetrahedron >but becuse it is frozen and in mud, the stucture surrounding it was >pentdodecahedron. i thought that might be intresting since Richard >is discussing similar structures(one is the timestar). Tagdi ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This methane hydrate that you heard about is found at between 300-1,500 meters depth off the US east coast and it is said that it will take over from coal and oil as a major source of fuel in the next century. Global resources of gas in hydrate form have been estimated at about 1,000 times the reserves of conventional gas. (Financial Times Business Information Ltd.) The methane is not frozen but forms a complex with a number of water molecules. I forget the structure of the methane hydrate but I once read that a certain percentage of a certain amine forms solid crystals in water. I prepared this in a little vial in the lab and sure enough very large transparent crystals filled the vial (I think it was only 12% amine that did this). The crystals were an especially serious problem for refineries which were handling the solutions. The crystals clogged up the pipes. Little known facts to the average person. Dave.Suwala@Reichhold.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 15:26:15 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ed Applewhite Subject: Re: Kirby on Bosnia (sort of) and the Fuller Projection A very fine posting ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 23:40:04 GMT Reply-To: tandrews@isn.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Swerdna Ddot Organization: Seldom, but sometimes Subject: Re: Best geodesic manafacturers cybermom@ix.netcom.com (Stacey Tyner ) made known literally that: >Hi, > I am thinking about building a geodesic dome and wanted info on the >best companies,interior walls,windows,fireplaces,etc. If any of you have >experience in this area, please post here or email me at >dbahuggums@aol.com or here. Thanks!!! I agree and am also interested in such things. Should someone reply to this request, please cc one to me. tandrews@isn.net Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 17:34:56 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Brant Subject: Re: Grunch of Giants The Buckminster Fuller Institute has copies of "Grunch of Giants" for $10.00. BFI can be reached at (805) 962-0022, fax: (805) 962-4440, or bfi@aol.com. (Please note: they don't respond as quickly to internet inquiries as they do if you call.) The institute is in Santa Barbara, California. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 18:10:39 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Russell McGinnis Organization: CyberGate, Inc. Subject: Re: VIDEOTAPE-WIESE You forgot to mention your "Official Bucky Hair Tonic" for bald people (like Bucky). Do you have a full multi-level marketing line of products that have anything to do with anything that Bucky did, said or wrote? I think a line of automobile care products would be a good way to commemorate the Dymaxion car. (By chance, are you a Ferengi?) Russ McGinnis St. Pete, Florida ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 06:27:28 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Bucky & Triangles >As an aside, when I told an architect friend of mine that many of his >systems were based on triangles, she asked if he was a Cancer zodiac. I >said yes and she said that Cancers are like crabs, they move side to side. >This may be a coincidence or not, but I believe that one of the qualities >that made Bucky a unique visionary was that he looked at a "square" world >with a triangular point of view. Any square could be divided into two >triangles. It would be interesting to look at the world from a completely >"Circle" approach, or to continue with his triangular approach. Yeah, it'd be cool to link the crab thing to Fuller's concept of 'precession'. Nature gets the job done precessionally, often at 90 degrees to what humans consciously understand. He felt our being graduated to Class I evolution would be a manifestation of our coming to understand 'the way of the crab' (tao?). Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:19:02 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: ETHANOL vs methane Dave: > Methane like all of the other hydrocarbons that are gases at room > temperature (ethane, propane, butane) is odorless. > Sulfur compounds (mercaptan) are added to any odorless hydrocarbon > (natural gas, gasoline) for detection purposes. The smell of > methane from anaerobic decomposition is due to other strong smelling > compounds (amines) that are produced in the process. Yes, you are correct. I was making the assumption that the methane would be used near the generation site, with (primitive) direct connections between storage and consumption, thus allowing the amines to propagate throughout the system. I was not thinking that a "homebrew" envornment would attempt "hat-tricks" such as purification and highly-pressurized storage, since this would increase cost and add risk to the net system. Gosh, Dave, I said that one DID NOT need a chemistry degree to make methane. You seem to have shown that it might help to have one. I work the day shift at the Idea Factory james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:19:05 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: World Scientists Warning to Humanity >>Over 1,500 members of national, regional, and international >>science academies have signed the Warning... > i think you should send a copy of this to the head office > of the 500 larges corrporation. I am an (obviously very unimportant) member of the Union of Concerned Scientists, and when the document was issued and signed, it was forwarded to thousands of news agencies, corporations, heads of state, and so on. It was a cry in the wilderness, but we figured that if the various religious groups could issue "position papers" on a wide range of issues, we could at least debate and come up with a simple statement of fact in our supposed area of expertise. It caused nary a ripple. > since MN deal and wheel with about 1/3 of world resources and > trade, they should be responsible. A "responsible multi-national" is a contradiction in terms. Multi-nationals must be brought to heel like an untrained dog by coordinated international action (laws and regulations) if we want them to even approach being responsible. If you want to read about how "unprofitable" responsibility is for a typical company, read "The Ecology of Commerce" by Paul Hawken, who claims that he sold his interests in Smith and Hawken (a very large "green" mail-order company) over just such concerns. Of course, it is easy to sell out, retire, and then write a whining series of complaints about how everyone is so screwed up. This compares with the economists who pen such neat little essays in "The Economist", critical of every action taken by literaly everyone, when they sat on their hands at the time the decisions were made. > there is a lot of redundancy in human behavour that include >scientest they replicate their work hundreds of times, so they are > contributing to the pollution of information which also have > great relation to specialization. Well, how do you expect anyone to expose bad work? The concept "of repeatable results" is basic to the checks and balances in the system. Anyone remember "cold fusion"? Good example. Not too much infoglut is created by someone publishing a confirmation of another's results, but we still have far too many forests being cut to print all the silly journals. The net helps, and so do CD Roms, but I still laugh about the 900-page report of some commission on the deforestation problem. They mailed me hardcopy. When I sent e-mail to complain about all the trees that were cut to print their report, they got huffy... > One of the first priorities is to eliminate buracracy and paper, Yeah, but the attempts to reduce either seem to create more of both. Recall President Bush's "Paperwork Reduction Act"? It was printed on paper. Lots of paper. Everyone needed copies in order to follow the new regulations, and lots of people had to write detailed explainations and specific "orders of the day" to comply with the new rules. > You have to move like an electron or a wave. I try to, but the nearest I can come is to drive my MG to all the meetings I can, thereby both saving fuel, and making myself an object that follows Heisenberg's Uncertanty Principle. They might know I am comming, but they are not sure of both my speed and my position. The recent US move to raise highway speed limits only complicates matters. If it matters, I do wave to people quite a bit along the way, but this is in no way an endorsement of the "wave" model. This is simply the normal reaction to people honking and waving to me, and yelling "What >>>IS<<< That?" (It's a 1952 MG-TD - top (driven) speed of 112 Mph - pretty good for an under 1-litre engine and wire spoke wheels, eh? I work the day shift at the Idea Factory james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:14:06 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: ETHANOL vs Methane > > This would cause a merger of AA and the AAA. I guess we > would call it the "AAAAA". I think that I'll put a bar > in the back of my car, and drive myself to drink!!! > ha ha , are you heavy drinker. i was a member in that clube in 1974, i think they charge 20 or so dollars a month. >> Ethanol is prefered to methane was't that what James Fischer once wrote. >>Correction please. > > Well, the multi-national agri-business conglomerates (like Cargil corp) > "like" ethanol, as it must be grown, harvested, and processed. Since > this sort of a process is capital intensive, it is a great "solution" > for large corporations (like Cargil and ADM) to promote. The process > is nearly beyond the abilities of the small-time operation. These > large companies are verically integrated to handle the entire process, > right down to shipping tanker truckloads and shiploads of product. this are the companies who control 90% of the farming in the U.S i would think. thanks James for your detailed reply. Tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:34:46 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: WEALTH AS ENERGY HOW TO BECOM A MILLIONIARE >> how much electricity in kw you need to light, heat a house? Nick> >For everything except electric heat, some people get by with very little, >eg 80 kWh/month. I use closer to 400 kWh/month, which is about 600 watts >on a continuous basis. Simple resistance electric heat might use 60kWh/day >in the winter, for a small house. Perhaps half that if the electric heat >comes from a heat pump, ie an air conditioner running backwards, that >cools the outside and warms the inside of the house in the winter. Tagdi a car with 40 kwats running one hour consuming 2 gallons can heat and light a house. little expensive the car must run for 10 hours. 400kw x 100 million house = 40 billion kwat a month wondering how you can compare that with total for cars since i do not know how long is the average car, taxies and trucks run. i can add that transportation consumes about 30% of total U.S energy. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:53:24 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Robert C. Reining" Subject: Re: Fw: Re: WEALTH AS ENERGY HOW TO BECOM A MILLIONIARE Has any one done a economic cost-benefit analysis of this hybrid diesel electric system? Items to consider in this analysis include the: 1. Maintenance cost of a diesel engine--fuel and oil filters and changes. 2. Overhauls--how many years would the engine run before needing a mechanical overhaul (conventional oil-burning furnaces typically last at least 20 years with minor maintenance) 3. What is the initial investment difference for the complete system as compared with an oil or gas furnace--special permits to "run the meter backwards", special circuits and electric meters, etc. 4. Price differential between home heating oil and diesel fuel. 5. Pollution differences--diesel engines tend to be dirtier--especially particulates than furnaces. Still, its an interesting concept. Robert Reining, U.S. General Accounting Offices (ReiningR.aimd@gao.gov) "This posting is the product solely of its author and does not reflect the views, policies, or positions of the General Accounting Office." ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Fw: Re: WEALTH AS ENERGY HOW TO BECOM A MILLIONIARE Author: "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" at INTERNET Date: 11/29/95 1:55 PM >Hello Nick, Greetings Tagdi, Just catching up on my email, after the Thanksgiving holiday... >>This is a clever "oil burner," that costs about $10K, but it can pay for itself >>in 3-5 years, vs. the infinite payback period for an ordinary oil burner, by >>making 5 kW of electricity while it is heating a house. The interface is an >>ordinary circuit breaker in the service panel, the kind you would use for an >>electric range. > > every few days or so i send one section, i hope it is ok with you . OK... > how much electricity in kw you need to light, heat a house? For everything except electric heat, some people get by with very little, eg 80 kWh/month. I use closer to 400 kWh/month, which is about 600 watts on a continuous basis. Simple resistance electric heat might use 60kWh/day in the winter, for a small house. Perhaps half that if the electric heat comes from a heat pump, ie an air conditioner running backwards, that cools the outside and warms the inside of the house in the winter. > and is 10k means 10,000 dollars. Yes. >what is ordinary circuit breaker? The thing that shuts off the electrical power to a circuit when the circuit is drawing too much current for safety. Usually located in the fuse box of a house, near where the main electrical supply wire comes into the house. > you mean the one were your electricy can cut off. I am not sure what you mean by that... The fuse box usually has a main switch or circuit breaker too, to turn off all the electricity in the house... > you see i am not cadget oriented. Yes. But I also see that you can learn fast. > Burning home heating oil, it's pretty efficient. About 93%, with a 1 1/2" PVC >>fluepipe and a 150F exhaust gas temperature. Inside the 800 lb box is an 11 HP >>diesel made by Lister-Petter, and an induction generator. When the house >>thermostat calls for heat, the induction generator acts as a motor to start >>the diesel from the 220 volt line. Then it becomes a generator, making the >>meter run backwards, if legally permitted. (In some states, you need two >>meters.) When the house is warm enough, the diesel engine stops running. > > is the pipe where the exhaust goes which heats the house. The pipe takes the diesel fumes out of the house. The house is heated by hot water, which is what cools the diesel engine. The unit circulates the hot water through radiators in the house. >i take it that the clever burner weights 800 lb. Yes. About 400 kg. >induction generator can you explain. This is really just a common kind of electric motor. If you connect it to the power line, and let it spin, it works as a motor. If you spin the shaft 6% faster than it normally goes, it puts power back into the power line... >>Of course you have to put sandbags all over the kitchen floor, to keep the >>dishes from rattling off the shelves... :-) It's actually fairly quiet, 60 dBA >>2 meters away, with good shock mounts as well as acoustic skins. >> >>The unit has a built-in circulator pump, which runs the engine block cooling >>water thru baseboard radiators, a duct heat exchanger, a fan coil unit, an >>indirect-fired water heater, a hot tub or swimming pool heat exchanger, etc. >>55,000 Btu/hr. 85,000, max, in "turbo-mode" :-) if the microprocessor senses >>more heat is needed and diverts the electrical output to turn on some heaters >>in the water stream, instead of feeding it back to the electric company. >>(Don't ask me how 5 kW makes 30K Btu/hour, perhaps a bug in the spec.) > > i am going to look at engin drawing see if get this if not i'll ask you. OK... Nick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:42:46 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Art Scott Subject: Re[2]: maps In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Tue, 07 Nov 1995 08:50:20 EST > > Therefore, may we conclude: > > - That the Dymaxion map is just another map? > - That it was and is NOT controversial? > Some time ago someone asked if there were standard (specific?) coordinates for the Dymaxion. Sorry it took so long but I had to dig through 10 years of paper (ugh?) records. In September 1985 I published a technical report entitled, "Constant Zenith Projection, Spherical Coordinate Notation." Abstract: The purpose of this report is to explain a scheme using spherical coordinate notation to transform the spherical facets of a regular icosahedron to planar facets suitable for plotting on an X-Y plotter. This is a major step toward transforming a data stream from an orbiting satellite to an accurate two-dimensional presentation. The work was based on, "Dymaxion Sky-Ocean World -- Grip-Kitrick Edition of Fuller Projection." I don't have the reference in front of me but I believe the coordinates of the vertices of the triangles were chosen to be in a water area, thus minimizing distortion of land areas. Appendix A of my report has a copy of those coordinates. If anyone wants them, I'll scan them in and send them. If anyone wants a copy of the whole report, I'll consider scanning the entire report. Figures will be a problem. I have a WWW page, if that is feasible. Regards, ArtS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 21:39:49 CET Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL Subject: Re: World Scientists Warning to Humanity > > Yeah, but the attempts to reduce either seem to create more > of both. Recall President Bush's "Paperwork Reduction Act"? > It was printed on paper. Lots of paper. Everyone needed > copies in order to follow the new regulations, and lots of > people had to write detailed explainations and specific > "orders of the day" to comply with the new rules. A small city in England is trying the smart card on a big scale to do all kind of banking activties. i think that is the sort of experments that will shed light on the waste of time, money. paper is the common dinoentor of control and frustration. politicians are still living in make belive world, there must be some way to wake them out or push them aside, no one seem to belive that reality can change, why they are afrid of information. you need somthing like transister(U.S acceleration to go to in the direction of the ether financed the research that produced the transister in 1959, you know the early computer used the old vaccum tubes, and when 1970 came the integrated cirut was printed on chip) but i do not know what is that new invention that will sweep everything. >> You have to move like an electron or a wave. > > I try to, but the nearest I can come is to drive my MG to > all the meetings I can, thereby both saving fuel, and making > myself an object that follows Heisenberg's Uncertanty > Principle. They might know I am comming, but they are not > sure of both my speed and my position. The recent US move > to raise highway speed limits only complicates matters. > > If it matters, I do wave to people quite a bit along the > way, but this is in no way an endorsement of the "wave" > model. This is simply the normal reaction to people honking > and waving to me, and yelling "What >>>IS<<< That?" (It's > a 1952 MG-TD - top (driven) speed of 112 Mph - pretty good for > an under 1-litre engine and wire spoke wheels, eh? > > Witty like ever. " wit is chemical, genius is organic" i do not know who said that > of course i am neither. I work the day shift at the Idea Factory i think this is really funny becuse it really seems like a factory without a foreman. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:12:58 LOCAL Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Stephen Harris Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET Subject: Re: Bucky & Triangles >"Circle" approach, or to continue with his triangular approach. I have done some preparation before tuning into this echo. As I recall the circle approach is considered to construct a spiral. >Yeah, it'd be cool to link the crab thing to Fuller's concept of >'precession'. Nature gets the job done precessionally, often at >90 degrees to what humans consciously understand. He felt our >being graduated to Class I evolution would be a manifestation of >our coming to understand 'the way of the crab' (tao?). This direction perhaps is along the w axis linked to the 4th dimension. And I do think this has to do with the 'chi' of the Tao. I have been thinking about chi and synchronicity/synergy. Read a short description of topoi which appear to place less emphasis on points which are oldstyle. The suggestion is a new view of self-reference not defined by points as fixed but occupying a domain-more flexibility to allow forbidden symmetry. My cautious opinion, is that Bucky did this with crystals and polymers. Good Day, Stephen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 17:34:00 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David T. Middleton" Subject: Re: ETHANOL vs Methane It seems to me that these fuels still contain carbon and hence when burned will produce CO2, a green house gas. What non carbon options do we have besides hydrogen and solar? David T. Middleton Adjunct Prof Materials and Processes Syracuse University ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 18:04:11 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: ETHANOL vs Methane David T. Middleton said: >It seems to me that these fuels still contain carbon and hence when burned >will produce CO2, a green house gas. What non carbon options do we have >besides hydrogen and solar? In order of probability of being a "real solution" in the real world: Low-Head Hydropower Solar (Passive) Solar (Water or Rock Store) Solar (Phase-Change Salts) Solar (Solar Cells) Wind Geothermal Hydrogen Wave Action What smells so bad? Perhaps it is that New World Odor everyone is talking about james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:04:23 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: new addition to "toy" index Marcia Blackburn wrote: >I've just picked up a wonderful icosahedron toy at the Museum of Modern >Art in New York. It's called "The Original Skwish Classic" and is >manufactured by Pappa Gepetto's Toys Victoria Ltd., Box 98, Victoria, >B.C. V8W 2M4 CANADA. It's made of multicolored wood parts connected with >black tension cable. Entrancing! > >- Marcia Blackburn > >oh, it was $16.00. Does it have little bells and sliders on the wood parts? Sounds like the tensegrity my daughter (18 months) likes to play with. Sold in Portland as a kid's toy. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:22:05 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Concept of Dimension in Synergetics tagdi@RUULCH.LET.RUU.NL wrote: >Tagdi > so you are saying that we have 4D befor frequency and once we add > frequency we enter other dimensions, or is it only after you add time and > energy. i thought the icosa was 10 dimension and rombic dodecahedron > had 6 dimension. Adding frequency and adding time/energy is the *same*. So, yes, we can say we add to the prefrequency 4 with time/energy. No the icosa doesn't have 10, nor the rhombic dodeca 6, by any reading of synergetics I am aware of. The idea that plane=dimension is incorrect. > given the way we have been thought, thinking of mathematics in terms > of frequency is not paltable. may be becuse we are quite mixed up > may be you have to be an original thinker like Fuller who > brought this new way of thinking; At this point, I'm just trying to shed light on what I take Fuller to have been saying -- nothing very original vis-a-vis 'dimension' and 'frequency', merely elucidation. >and removing it into the conceptual > or matphysical level is quite novel that can take a while to digest. > i find the tetraheron geometry quite fascinating, still floathing some where > in the mind, when it becomes integral it will gain the privelage > of being part of oneself. i take that intgrality to be part of > correcting the corrdination in onself reflexes. > > last point: what is the consequences one's way of thinking > if one thinks tetroctaicosve geometry on the level of one's experience. I think nature comes alive as the source of our models, rather than having so much invested in Platonic ideals (perfectly straight line, perfectly smooth and impregnable sphere) that do not exist. The other affect is becoming a bit alientated from run-o-the-mill 'high tech' aesthetics, which still tend to use xy and xyz grids to connote sophisticated engineering on television commercials. I'm more impressed by commercials which use synergetic themes ala Disney's EPCOT. Kirby -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:22:15 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: On Virtualizing Government: A Design Science Approach Distribution: unrestricted ON VIRTUALIZING GOVERNMENT: A DESIGN SCIENCE APPROACH by Kirby Urner 11-30-95 Now that we've had the chance to surf through a lot of USA government web sites, it's time to propose an alternative design philosophy. The current trend artificially impoverishes government and the political life of our nation by not seriously exploiting the advantages of cyberspace. Predictably, government websites treat the browser as they would a member of the public happening to visit one of the federal buildings in Washington DC. The home page is like a directory posted in the lobby. Browsers with more than casual interest are directed to museum rooms off to the side, where the agency in question proudly parades its noble history and contributions. Executive offices, in the meantime, are tucked out of sight, beyond the reach of web browsers. Listen to a speech, admire the pretty logo, and follow the links to other goverment agencies, where you will find much the same layout. Ho hum. Treating cyberspace as just another site for erecting public facades, and keeping inner workings private, shows a lack of imagination and a willful disregard for the possibilities. Whereas the Secretary of Agriculture could never deal with the logistics of a thousand tourists parading through her office on a daily basis, the web is precisely suited to giving browsers the chance to 'look over the shoulders' of elected/appointed officials, to see the world through their eyes, and thereby to gain some appreciation of their decisions and pronounce- ments as chronicled in the media. Why does the Interior Secretary think thus and so about our national forests? Check the DOI website and find out. Why does the Surgeon General think thus and so about health issues facing the nation? Click here for a view of the national healthscape as seen from this office. Sure, one could spend hours watching C-SPAN or culling through clippings in an effort to shed light on the viewpoint in question, but why not use the web to lift some of this burden? Why should every voter who wants to be well-informed have to quit the job and move into the library? Isn't the fulfillable promise of the internet that we can stay informed and still have time for a family? The challenge, then, is to design websites "from the inside out," using pages to give a rough sense of what it looks like to be in this government position looking out on whatever vista. Browsers will enjoy the understanding of the big picture this affords, since looking at ostensibly the same world through different high offices will have an integrating affect within their minds: reality is multi-angled, and seeing multiple angles is a prerequisite for having a realistic grasp. In addition, if an agency does a lousy job with its web pages, not communicating the essence of what is on the mind of its principals, then the actions of the leaders in question will make no sense. If the strings attached to this congressional office are shadowy, monetary in nature, and buried from public view, then this or that vote will just not reconcile with ideals and objectives framed over the officials desk (prominantly displayed on a web page), nor add up in light of what the web pages show of this congressperson's constituency. Of course the level of honesty and integrity I'm suggesting in creating a 'Virtual Government' wherein any browser can sit behind any desk in the system, and get a clear picture of what is going on, is unprecedented and unattainable in the short term. But that doesn't mean we can't adopt a new design philosophy. Let's use the web for what it does best: giving any number of browsers up close and personal access to vital information. Lets assist those who would understand their goverment, rather than erecting more false barriers and facades. And this design philosophy need not be limited to goverment of course. What do public and special interest groups see when they look at Washington DC? Critiquing and second-guessing is part of the business. If an incumbant has does less than a credible job of painting a reality that explains his actions, then a watchdog agency can spell it out more clearly: the world as we think Congressman Bob sees it, versus how Congressman Bob's staff says he sees it. Making a 'virtual goverment' of subjective official positions, in the form of interlinked websites tied to documents and studies, to the Library of Congress, to newspaper accounts and TV shows, to public opinion polls and market surveys, to databases, will not end the government's ability to keep its secrets. But it will help bring together already-public information in a natural order, reflective of goverment structure. By this means, goverment will be doing its job: governing by informing and integrating, rather than by concealing and obfuscating. Keeping web sites up to date, to reflect the current state of affairs, will not be a sideline left to a few interns, but a central focus of public relations. Students of government in academia will rush to boot their browsers at some surprising turn of events, to watch the ripple-effect through all reaches of the affected bureaucracies. Describing reality has a way of changing its definition. Showing what's on the minds of our public officials will have an impact on the situations they're facing. I think these impacts will, by and large, be positive, as the public will see ever more clearly what makes government tick, and clarity is an asset in a democracy. If the trend is away from clarity, then we can be sure that, whatever principles are being served, they are nondemocratic in nature. LINKS TO SEMI-RELEVANT OTHER TOPICS: 1. The concept of a 'virtual machine' gained currency in the second phase of mainframe computers. Systems operators had gotten used to having multiple disks, printers, jobs queues etc. under their control, but not the user community was expanding such that a single computer would host several sessions in real time, using a time-share approach. Whereas only one user could still be 'the' systems operator, the engineers found it most convenient to retain the whole systems viewpoint. The solution: all users were given the vantage point of a systems operator, a complete 'virtual machine' to look after and manage. In actual fact, each virtual machine would represent just a fraction of the total machine's capacity, and users would have limited powers to affect the running of the mainframe as a whole. But what was retained was the sense of ownership, and the cohesive integrity that a systems operators viewpoint lends when working with a mainframe. 2. The art of memory was passed down in Western cultures in the hermetic tradition, was later picked up by Jesuit curricula and circulated to China, for example, by Matteo Ricci. The art of memory involes creating a 'virtual universe' inside one's head, supposedly reflective of the greater cosmos (structurally similar, or 'angularly identical' as we'd say in Synergetics). Because of the structural alignment of one's mind with the cosmos, decision-making would, in theory at least, yield more secure results. According to some scholars (e.g. Francis Yates), the design of public buildings, such as Shakespeare's Globe Theater, was consciously attuned to the inward architecture of the day, and served as an aide de memoir within an integrated paradigm uniting subjective and objective space. 3. http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/usaos.html -------------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:59:18 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James McCaig Subject: Re: On Virtualizing Government: A Design Science Approach At 11:22 PM 11/30/95 GMT, you wrote: >Distribution: unrestricted > > ON VIRTUALIZING GOVERNMENT: A DESIGN SCIENCE APPROACH > by Kirby Urner > 11-30-95 > Dear Kirby, Some interesting and well thought out ideas. Fortunately, our government 'crats are hopelessly behind the curve with computers. This is fortuitous because the capability that you mention would certainly be used to take more and more freedom from the populace. It may be better to let them tag along, years behind the third wave, while we reinvent goverment along more human and service oriented lines. Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net