From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Sep 12 18:50:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g8CMoAL2011110 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:50:10 -0400 Message-Id: <200209122250.g8CMoAL2011110@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 10075 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 22:25:59 -0000 Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 22:25:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:25:58 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9608" To: Chris Fearnley Status: RO Content-Length: 657121 Lines: 12684 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:09:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: My NewCiv Strategy Comments: To: ncndiscuss-l@newciv.org Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com MEMORANDUM From: Kirby Urner, 4D Solutions To: NewCiv Disscussion List (ncndiscuss-l@newciv.org) Re: FYI my approach to NewCiv work Cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com, geodesic@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu, friends Via my e-list (synergetics-l) and website, my strategy [1] vis-a-vis newciv work is as follows: (A) recruit more folks in academia by swapping in some new and useful definitional apparatus in geometry which is more suitable to software engineering e.g. no 'pure continuity' or 'zero dimensional points' [2] i.e. the latter don't show up very well in ray-traced images :-) This is the same definitional apparatus which brought us the EPCOT geosphere and Fuller Projections. [3] (B) agree with Economics that monopolies are unhealthy, including Econ's monopoly, as a discipline, over big picture resource distribution and survival issues -- so General Systems Theory (GST) is posed as a directly competing discipline, rhetorically polemical against Econ when strategic. [4] (C) propagate new curriculum material into lower grades (e.g. high school) stemming from (A) and (B) above, including via eductional television and the internet [5] (D) do realistic brainstorming around near-future affordable housing options that will give at-risk kids today a sense that a better tomorrow is in the wings, one which is post-nationalist in many respects (e.g. Fuller Projection), but also high tech (e.g. EPCOT), in terms of basing its curriculum on the latest in software (and other) engineering [6] ---------------- NOTES [1] I say 'my strategy' so that I don't inadvertently rope in participants on my e-list or contributors to my website who haven't signed on to the above four-point plan of action. On the other hand, I don't want to imply that I'm not getting a lot of valuable assistance from others -- I am. [2] R. Buckminster Fuller, Synergetics, vols 1 & 2, Macmillan Publishing, in collaboration with E.J. Applewhite [3] for more on the Fuller Projection, see http://www.worldgame.org/~wgi/ [4] E.g. 'New Circuit Designs for Motherboard Earth' at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/motherboard.html [5] E.g. see PBS-affiliate WNET's site: http://www.wnet.org:80/bucky.cgi [6] E.g. see http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bworks.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:42:32 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Books Comments: To: "Jackie J. Cecil" In-Reply-To: <32010FCF.779B@www.valuu.net>; from "Jackie J. Cecil" at Aug 1, 96 8:13 pm Jackie J. Cecil writes: > Joe: > What are the prices of the books and where do I get them? If you have > a description of the books contents that you could snail-mail that to > me with the titles and prices, please send it to : > Jack Cecil > 3728 Mt. Zion Church Road > Valdosta, Ga. 31605 > Thank You Most of the dome books that I listed are out of print and therefore only available through libraries and used book stores. However, some are available through the Buckminster Fuller Institute and some are available from the various dome companies that are still in business (see link to dome manufacturers in BFI site). Also, the dome manufacturers site has a list of books with their Table of Contents (TOCS). If you have a specific book in mind, you could post a message to the Geodesic list. Maybe someone could help. -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:02:26 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mike Markowski Organization: University of Delaware, Newark Subject: Re: Society and Media In article <199607251302.JAA22933@mujibur.inmind.com>, James Fischer wrote: > Mike Markowski said: > >>If people not only turned off tv news, but voiced their reasons to >>those companies for doing so, and instead tuned their shortwaves to >>BBC - or whatever your favorite alternative is - you can bet there'd >>be a change in short order. > > Overall, the news operations do a decent job, so > "Turning them off" will only encourage those who > would rather have all news be nothing but more and > more fluff and celebrity coverage. Which would > you rather watch - Ted Koppel's "Nightline", or > muckraking "Inside Edition"? Guess which has > better ratings? Yes, I agree with you. My statement was - indirectly, and uncleary I suppose! - simply advocating action. Whenever you see something less than it could be, improve it. In a world of billions, it's easy at times to feel that the effects of an individual approach zero... Feeling that a complaint is the only outlet. But that's not true. We're each uniquely best at something, and the entire world will feel the effects of that something. Mike PS: > What I have learned from being one step short of > having a coax cable connected to the base of my > skull for 10 years [...] Ahh, I've been _wondering_ what that coax connector behind your left ear was for. Too embarassed to ask, you know. -- Mike Markowski http://www.cis.udel.edu/~markowsk/ PGP Key Fingerprint: 16 10 A7 DC 85 18 5C 7C AE 0B 0D 93 2B B5 C2 7F ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:04:21 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rui Manso Organization: TELEPAC, SA Subject: Programs for topographie I4ve some programs in basic and qpro about this subject. They are in Portuguese if you want send-me your mail and what do you want to rui.manso@mail.telepac.pt PS : if you have any kind of these i trade with you. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:25:28 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: syn-l: Practical Application (fwd) Roan Carratu writes: > From greta.teleport.com!teleport.com!owner-synergetics-l Sat Aug 3 14:11:39 1996 > Message-ID: <3203BE5A.5825@interramp.com> > Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 16:02:18 -0500 > From: Roan Carratu > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4 (Win95; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Subject: syn-l: Practical Application > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Sender: owner-synergetics-l@teleport.com > Reply-To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Precedence: bulk > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I would like to propose that this little group of geniuses (or=20 > semimicropolyliterates, at least) work on something a whole lot more=20 > practical: > > LIKE: > > An inflatable spherical geodesic space station made up of three layers,=20 > (at least) of flexible materials. > > 1st; an outside reflective heat-radiating/heat-retaining self-sealing,=20 > radiation-absorbing, dense high frequency geodesically enforced hybrid=20 > fabric/plastic/carbon-fiber layer around > > 2nd, a tensegrity sphere of tube and fabric where the compression=20 > elements are tubes of material held rigid by high pressure gas, and > > 3rd, an interior fabric/flexible material sphere held rigid/inflated by=20 > interior air pressure and connections to the second layer tensegrity=20 > sphere. The material would contain a geodesically configured power=20 > grid/anchor structure to allow mobile hexagonal modules to be attached=20 > to the interior spherical surface. =20 > > The 1st layer would be sent up and inflated in space with an interior=20 > web of sensors to measure the material's sustainability, radiation=20 > imperviousness, and micro damage self-repair, (among a few other hundred=20 > considerations) over a period of time. Then, after whatever needed=20 > modifications are accomplished, the second and third layers are sent up=20 > and installed. > > I think this concept is far more practical, cheaper, and more adaptable=20 > than the existing space station designs, and of all the people I know=20 > of, this group would be the best people to develop the concept in a=20 > practical way. > > The concept I have of this is far more developed than this simple word=20 > sketch, but I would really like to know what you'all think=85 > > -Roan > > .- > -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:22:12 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: remi <73514.3466@COMPUSERVE.COM> Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Subject: economics of domes Hello, I'm currently writing an article about geodesic domes. My question is: why geodesic domes didn't work? Can we hope some change in this field? My sub questions are: did the domes fulfill their promises. If people have lived in a dome, or used it for professional goals, how was the experience? Was there a strong opposition (legal, corporate, economic) to the spread of domes? Did people who construct and sell domes (they quite a lot, as i have seen in the FAQ) encounter such an opposition? If you have some information about these subjects, or anything you think could be interesting to report, please email me: 73514.3466@compuserve.com Remi -- remi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:02:55 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Roan Carratu Subject: Re: economics of domes remi wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm currently writing an article about geodesic domes. My question > is: why geodesic domes didn't work? The reasons are multiple and cultural. 1. Domes do not fulfill the requirements of government 'safety' regulations concerning buildings on any level; local, county, state, or federal. Since the regulations are as much for protecting 'steady state' profits by the manufacturers of the components described by the regulations as for 'safety', there is no lobby large enough to loosen up the regulations to allow building domes. Communities who experimented with domes in the early seventies had them burned down by police in attacks that resembled the Waco ATF raid, except that nobody got killed or even had guns to point at the police. Code violations were the reason given for the helicopter/machine gun/ hordes of black clad police attacks on the peaceful communities and the burning of their dome homes. The only dome's allowed to be built are domes built within the codes using ordinary materials and methods and 2. since domes built using carpenters, (who cannot build them precise enough) and sheet rock and 2x4s and shingles almost always leak, they are not very popular and they are as expensive as the low tech crud houses even the richest live in 3. and the rich live in the kinds of houses they do because the price of building them is tremendous which gets them estimated values which are outrageous enough to borrow large sums of money off of which is where the lower and middle rich get the money they need to finance their business scams If someone actually came up with a popular and cheap house design which would force the appraisal of mansions to actually reflect reality, then the middle rich would not have them for collateral. In fact, the stupid, incredibly expensive housing industry is part of the foundation of our entire economy, part of the main measurement, and is therefore holy in the sight of almighty Money (Praise the Almighty Dollar! And Praise Be to the Highest Priests, the Deserving One Percent, the Holy Winners! Curse the Losers, the 90%, may they all go away and die quietly ) . > Can we hope some change in this field? No. > My sub questions are: > did the domes fulfill their promises. If people have lived in > a dome, or used it for professional goals, how was the experience? Nicest place I have ever lived in. I liked them a lot. > Was there a strong opposition (legal, corporate, economic) to the > spread of domes? Did people who construct and sell domes (they > quite a lot, as i have seen in the FAQ) encounter such an > opposition? Answered all these questions above. > If you have some information about these subjects, or anything you > think could be interesting to report, please email me: > 73514.3466@compuserve.com > > Remi Peace and Good Health, Remi, -Roan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:19:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Oregon Dome, Inc" Subject: Re: Structural Behaviour Geodesic Sphere Dawie, I've been pretty quiet lately, although I still read the majority of the posts (with the exception of the occasional spam). I am getting in over my head when I start to talk engineering. I can only relay what I hear from others in this area. For accuracy, I would try contacting Weyerhauser, who supplies much of our lumber. I will however, dig around and see what I can find for you. At 10:09 AM 7/31/96 GMT+0200, you wrote: > Nathan Burke, > Oregon Dome, Inc, wrote: > >> One of the important things to be aware of in this is that the douglas fir >> is the ideal wood for building domes with. Its flex strength is really >> remarkable ...(snipped for brevity). > >Hi Nathan, good to hear from you again. The predicted safety margin >for the 2x4 douglas fir geodesic dome, with reference to Dave >Misch's FEM analysis, is directly dependent on the material >properties assigned to the lumber used. In the FEM analysis model, the >following were applied: > > Modulus of elasticity 1.75E6 psi. > Tension parallel to the grain 1200 psi. > Compression parallel to the grain 1600 psi. > Shear parallel to the grain 95 psi. > Specific gravity 0.47 (no unit of measure provided) > >I've got an engineering text book, which provides completely >different properties for kiln dried douglas fir structural timber. >Could you perhaps assist in providing some reliable information about >the required material properties for structural grade 2x4 douglas >fir. > >The reason for this is that I am still developing my fibreglass dome, >and would be very interested to calculate what glass laminate >configuration has the equivalent (or better) material properties of >douglas fir. > >Dawie Venter > > Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:20:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Oregon Dome, Inc" Subject: Re: economics of domes At 01:22 PM 8/3/96 GMT, you wrote: >Hello, > >I'm currently writing an article about geodesic domes. My question >is: why geodesic domes didn't work? Can we hope some change in >this field? My opinion on the first question is that they do work. However, we are trying to overcome hundreds of years of inertia in square house building, which will make the conversion rate slow. In addition, the early domes were built out of many experimental materials by many people who were not experienced in building, which produced a lot of leaky domes, which did not enhance their reputation among the public. >My sub questions are: >did the domes fulfill their promises. If people have lived in >a dome, or used it for professional goals, how was the experience? The domes did live up to their promises. They have a finished cost well below that of most square/rectangle structures. They are extremely energy efficient and disaster resistant. Most of all, our dome owners are not moving out of them, and when they are, they are building new domes! >Was there a strong opposition (legal, corporate, economic) to the >spread of domes? There is not any real opposition. The concerns that are raised revolve around a general lack of knowledge about domes. We have been successful in using education about domes to get them built. Did people who construct and sell domes (they >quite a lot, as i have seen in the FAQ) encounter such an >opposition? As I said, there has not been organized opposition, just a general lack of knowledge about domes to deal with. >If you have some information about these subjects, or anything you >think could be interesting to report, please email me: >73514.3466@compuserve.com > Check out our web site at http://www.domes.com for some free downloadable information. Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:49:42 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Don Schenck Subject: Re: economics of domes <> Communities who experimented with domes in the early seventies had them burned down by police in attacks that resembled the Waco ATF raid, except that nobody got killed or even had guns to point at the police. Code violations were the reason given for the helicopter/machine gun/ hordes of black clad police attacks on the peaceful communities and the burning of their dome homes. The only dome's allowed to be built are domes built within the codes using ordinary materials and methods <> Uh ... sheesh Roan ... seen any black UN helicopters lately?? -- Don ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:21:46 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Roan Carratu Subject: Re: economics of domes Don Schenck wrote: > > <> > Communities who experimented with domes in the early seventies > had them burned down by police in attacks that resembled the Waco ATF > raid, except that nobody got killed or even had guns to point at the police. > Code violations were the reason given for the helicopter/machine gun/ hordes > of black clad police attacks on the peaceful communities and the burning > of their dome homes. The only dome's allowed to be built are domes built > within the codes using ordinary materials and methods > <> > > Uh ... sheesh Roan ... seen any black UN helicopters lately?? > > -- Don I remember reading several reports, with pictures, back in the earily 70's. The comunities were in California, and the helecopters were police helecopters. It's history, not myth. The communities experimenting with domes made out of different materials had been constantly harrassed by the Codes people and then the police serving court orders to destroy the 'illegal' buildings. When the communities did nothing, the police came in and burned them. The people in the communities documented the entire sordid tale. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers this. I'll bet Stuart Brand or the people at the Whole Earth could tell you more. P.S. The police were wearing black, I think. -Roan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:16:26 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: economics of domes Comments: cc: 73514.3466@compuserve.com remi said: >I'm currently writing an article about geodesic domes. For what publication? We like to keep up with who is giving things like domes some press. No fair asking for input without posting (or web-ifiying) the final article for all to read. >My question is: why geodesic domes didn't work? Who said domes "didn't work"? Does your question presume that house trailers and "double-wides" DID "work", simply because they are the cheapest thing around, and hence have been sold in greater numbers? House trailers ARE popular - ask any group of tornadoes! The DOMES worked fine. Some of the BUILDERS did not work out so well. It is easy to stand back and critique "domes" as a whole, but the actual failure(s) would have been "failures" even if the people in question had decided to build 1-story brick ranches. The "failure" was (and is still) a failure to learn basic skills required to build ANY structure. >Can we hope some change in this field? Wow, you need some anti-depressants! First off, domes have been a consistent (although very small) segment of the housing market for over 20 years. The market is broken up among a number of small "Mom and Pop shops", each one serving a primary "local" area of a state or two, and a scattering of "long distance" customers. Some of these companies have been around for decades. This is much longer than many traditional builders have been able to stay in business. For some strange reason, domes are attractive to a type of person who has never built as much as a doghouse in their entire life. They also choose to not hire (sub)contractors, most likely due to a lack of cash. This combination can be dangerous. What MIGHT change is that dome buyers might take a more "professional" approach to building, perhaps by learning more than is taught by the dome vendor in a weekend course. For example, a potential dome buyer might spend a summer working with Habitat For Humanity [blatant plug alert!] to learn how to use tools, how to read blueprints, and how to not hurt himself or others in the process. It is a very good idea to pound a few hundred nails under the watchful eye of an "old pro" before one goes off to build one's own house. It is also a good idea to find out if one has the stamina to do hard physical labor on EVERY weekend, a marriage strong enough to "survive" a major construction project, and the basic manual dexterity and mental abilities required to measure, cut, nail, carry, hoist, drill, and so on. What MIGHT change is that dome buyers might READ and FOLLOW the plans and instructions. When the vendor says to cut the strut to a length of 7 feet 1-5/16 inches, this means that a strut cut to a length of 7 feet 1-1/2 inches will not do! Most structures do not require "precision" framing, but domes do. It takes planning and understanding of one's tools to be able to cut 30 struts, all within 1/16th of inch of the required length. When the vendor hints that holes should be drilled with a drill press to insure that holes are perpendicular to the wood surface, a few wannabe builders might someday actually buy a drill press rather than "eyeballing" things with a hand-drill. ...I could go on like this for several pages, but I think you get the idea. Quick - how thick is the cut made by your sawblade? Don't know? Learn! >My sub questions are: Questions about subs should be directed to the US Navy :) >did the domes fulfill their promises. Promises were made FOR domes, not BY domes. An important distinction. As with any "grand concept", the dreamscape of low-cost, owner-built housing is littered with the bleached bones of the unwary, the uneducated, the undercapitalized, and the unprepared. The questions that one must ask oneself about building any home are the same questions that tend to arise in one's mind when approaching a waterhole on the African savannah: 1) Is the water as cool and refreshing as it looks? 2) Why are all the bones of dead animals strewn around here? 3) Did predators kill them? 4) Did the water kill them? 5) Am I a predator or am I prey? 6) Did I remember to bring a canteen? 7) Must one really wait an hour after eating before swimming? Sadly, anyone who has watched enough movies knows that everyone forgets to ask these questions when they see a nice waterhole. This is why the typical crocodile only needs to "work" a 2-hour day, and why blood-sucking parasites like leeches and lawyers are so common. It is true that domes were hyped by some to the unwary, and the uneducated unwary got burnt. The most dangerous "advocate" of domes is the one who has never built one. For that matter, some "advocates" have never built as much as a tree house, would not know a chalk line if they tripped over it, and think that "plumb" is a fruit. As structures, domes do what they are supposed to do. As homes, they are not for everyone. For the few they are "for", domes are the only way to live. These people find out who they are, and do not need to be "sold" on the concept. This is as it should be. >If people have lived in a dome, or used it for professional goals, >how was the experience? Domes are wonderful performance spaces, in that the acoustics are similar to a well-designed church. Domes make excellent churches, and a typical congregation has enough members to build a dome with ease. (A word to pastors - do NOT let your church members use paint thinner when painting the church, or they will be forced to "Repaint, And Thin No More"!) Since all the panels of a dome face the center, this factor of "great acoustics" could be a problem in a domestic situation if one has loud kids (and all kids are loud at times). Aside from the acoustics issue, there is a philosophic issue - is a dome "all roof" or "all wall"? One should decide on this crucial point before living in a dome, or the rest of one's life could be spent thinking about it. Another major point is that few people ever sit down and "plan" a home around their life. The roundness of a dome is unusual in a world full of square couches, beds, and bookcases. With a dome, better planning is needed, which often takes the form of a series of "flow diagrams" with boxes like "dirty clothes" ==> "storage" ==> "wash" ==> "dry" ==> "fold/iron" ==> "storage" ==> "distribute" ==> "closets" ==> "dressing". Many who go though the planning process find that a dome may force too many compromises upon their newly discovered understanding of what they want. Of course, nearly all homes force these trade-offs, since few have the luxury of building exactly what they want in all aspects. The planning process at least makes people realize that they had been designing their lives around their homes rather than the other way round. Much has been made of the statement "all domes have leaky roofs". This statement is silly, since if it were true, no one would live in them, and no one would currently sell them, as they all would have been sued out of life and limb. If you want to see a leaky roof, look at a house with an addition, or any Frank Loyd Wright house (all his roofs really DID leak!), or a house with not enough roof slope and many troughs between one section of roof and another. Domes have none of these basic problems. Many domes have skylights, and PROPER skylight installation is one of the last of the black arts, practiced by people who want to be paid well for their skills. Skylights, chimneys, and ANYTHING that pokes through a roof are potential "leakers". Please note that with a dome, all windows higher than "2 triangles" above ground level should be treated as skylights. (Now you see why the "roof/wall" issue mentioned above is so important.) Since a dome has more roof-like surface than a traditional structure, the cost of roofing and/or re-roofing is higher (but think what you save on siding!). This prompts many to use cheap materials, or delay replacement of aged materials. These may be other causes of the false perception about leaks. >Was there a strong opposition (legal, corporate, economic) to the >spread of domes? There were some valid building code concerns about some early dome kits. There are also building code issues when any inexperienced owner-builder builds ANY structure. With the near universal acceptance of nationwide building standards (such as BOCA), only the concerns about the owner-builder remain. Domes are not the only "kit house" around, so all owner-built "kit houses" face a certain skeptical eye from the building inspector, unless the owner-builder has pros do the mission-critical work, like the foundation. Domes WERE hard to finance, but so were log homes and other kit homes. This is no longer the case if one is building a kit from a company with a track record and a good "installed base". In general, domes ARE a bigger "risk" for a bank (and the owner), in that the number of potential dome buyers is low as compared to (for example) 1-story brick ranches. Resale values on badly-built and poorly maintained domes are low, just as they would be on any poorly-built home. I am sure that every dome vendor has sold a few examples of "the $500,000.00 dome home". Not surprisingly, these are showplaces, and if sold, sell for large suitcases full of greenbacks. To be blunt, if someone was planning to build and sell a home after living in it a few years, I would not suggest a dome. Domes ARE harder to sell. Domes are to build and keep for yourself. If you want the illusion of "resale value", you had better stick with a 2-story brick colonial on a 1 acre lot, since this is what the overwhelming majority thinks they want. (Please also recall that "Hootie And The Blowfish" sold many records, and thus realize that there is no accounting for taste.) Everything I have said could also be said about (for example) Lindal Cedar Log Homes, or any other "kit". It is also true of custom-built square-box homes. The subjects of "kits", "owner-built homes", and even "homes custom-built by builders for owners" are all emotional subjects, fraught with horror stories and long-winded jokes. The reason is that the investment in time, money and emotions is high. Wanna build a dome? Start small - build a trellis for your morning glories. Don't have any? Plant some. Learn about dirt and rock. Foundations sit on dirt and rock. There is much to be said for starting from the "ground up". Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil - I live on the mountain that makes the shadow. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:48:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: 4D Chronicler Vol 2. No. 2 Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com \ /\ /\ / \ /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ / The 4D Chronicler \ / \ / \ / \/____\/____\/ \/____\/____\/ /\ /\ /\ An Internet Newsletter /\ /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ by Kirby Urner / \ / \ / \ /____\/____\/____\__________________________________/____\/____\/____\ ======================================================================= Published 4x per year August 1996 Vol 2. No. 2 ======================================================================= THIS ISSUE: FOCUS ON BUCKY WORKS TABLE OF CONTENTS 1. Bucky Works: Update 4. Editorial: What Next? 2. Brainstorming on Bucky Works 5. Note from 4D Solutions 3. Web Views Note: if the header looks funny, adjust your font to fixed pitch ======================================================================= 1. Bucky Works: An Update by Jay Baldwin (BW author) I just returned from Cape Cod, where I inspected the Pillowdome for the first time since it was built in April 82. Tefzel material was strong and clear as new. A few pillows were still properly inflated, but the majority were flat or too soft, most certainly because of the "razzer" type valves (not my design) which have turned out to be unable to stay tight or even waterproof. Next try will have bicycle valves which I bet do the deed. Several pillows are punctured or ripped apart, obviously by vandals or severe accident. The vent restraining/operating cords were allowed to fray and break, permitting the vents to open 180 degrees in wind gusts. This caused the vent lids to damage themselves and nearby pillows. The door pillow, never a good idea, eventually fatigued the Tefzel at the hinge point, which broke. A problem that is easily solved. Bob Gray has found Evan Welch, the man who made the original pillows. Using his ballpark estimate, I figure that a hand-made (that is, no tooling) 30 foot pillowdome shell with vents can be done for about ten grand or so, including labor and a modest profit. As the Cape Cod dome, which was built with zero safety factor, has withstood truly nasty weather over its 14 year life, I can confidently say that it'll stand up to any Atlantic seaboard weather. I am involved in a project that could use them for covers on solar "Living Machine" sewage treatment facilities. A big enough order could raise enough interest to pay for tooling, which would greatly reduce the price of the pillows. About time; I made the first one in 1970. I see them as useful for cohousing or other neighborhood covers. To me, the potential for biodome-homes making their own power, raising their own food (except for Oreos), and recycling their wastewater is far more interesting than coffee machines that save me the debilitating effort of pushing a button. But there's room for many capabilities once you're safely under a controlllable weather shield. J. Baldwin to K. Urner, 30 July 1996 [Bucky Works, ISBN 0-471-12953-4, $29.95 postpaid, John Wiley & Sons, Inc. (800) 225-5945]. 2. Brainstorming on BuckyWorks "To me, the potential for biodome-homes making their own power, raising their own food (except for Oreos), and recycling their wastewater is far more interesting than coffee machines that save me the debilitating effort of pushing a button." -- Jay Baldwin (see above) Jay ain't so thrilled by my Java-enabled coffee maker enhancements to his pillowdome's internals, but I think there's room for lots of different aesthetics, including 'Geek Chic' (my coin). From one of my letters to a friend: I'm not sure J. Baldwin will like my essay much, as his own PillowDomes are filled with gardens, plant life, recreations of rural utopia, operated by mature outdoors people. Then I come along filling the same domes with obnoxious, pale-skinned, pizza-eating geeks playing loud music while reclining on waterbeds, zapping 3D spaceships on their ceilings and not doing anything much to preserve the environment (unless we factor in that much of what they consume for entertainment is pure 'information' -- far less a drain than the fossil-fuel burning amusements more popular with their grandparents). K. Urner to K. Snelson June 23, 1996 For more on JavaDomes, see my Chapter 8 "The User Interface" of my 'Brainstorming on BuckyWorks', an anthology-in-process based at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeproto.html. 3. Web Views My pick this issue for Far Out WebSite is Geometrica's at: http://www.geometrica.com/ For my current list of dome manufacturer links see: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeman.html For my current list of other Fuller-related links see: ftp://ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/artindex.html 4. Editorial: What Next? As the USA enters the final leg of its campaign season, it pays to recall that the design science strategy is not about waiting for politicians to blaze the trail ahead. What is democracy? This question gets bandied about on many e-lists (email discussion groups) and the bottom line seems to be it has a lot to do with participation -- not just in voting now and then, but in full time committment to a higher purpose. Democracy can also mean cutting through red tape, getting the job done. It also means collaboration in egalitarian situations, be they teams, crews, task groups or committees (the names may change, but the general principles remain the same). So democratic process need not be synonymous with sitting around waiting for some politicians to get their act together. In fact, such a sense of inaction and abrogation of personal power may be the antithesis of democratic participation with our peers. The internet helps us recall and reattach a deeper meaning to our democratic ideals, and to see ourselves as trail blazers, pioneers, striving daily to bring a better future closer to reality. The design science revolution is not about overthrowing political systems in some violent, gut-wrenching scenario, but about individuals around the world taking personal responsibility, taking action. This can mean working closely with political offices, especially if we're already tied in to such offices already, but it doesn't have to mean this. Democratic systems are also things we need to engineer, at the operating system level for example, which is where corporations focus when trying to put together infrastructure that doesn't lock key people out of key information, or compartmentalize management so drastically that mega-opportunities are squandered and market position lost -- because overspecial- ization spells paralysis and rigor mortis in the corporate context. To quote Fuller's little masterpiece, Grunch of Giants: "The new reorienting of human networking constitutes the heart-and-mind-pumped flow of life and intellect into the world arteries. The world-integrating networking self-multiplies and accelerates. Never traveling as a tourist, I myself have been induced into forty-eight complete encirclements of our planet and everywhere I go I meet more and more people whom I have met elsewhere around the world. Ever more widely traveling, literate, well-informed individuals discover that they, and an ever faster increasing number of other humans, are becoming intuitively aware that life is breaking them out of the ages-long, anonymous life-patterning of the beehive drone. They experience newborn hope that humans have indeed a destiny of individual significance complementary to the integrity of other individuals." This ain't no beehive anymore folks. It's you 'n me working together, in democratic, freely associative networks, to make this world a better place for ourselves and our kids. [for a selected bibliography of Fuller books, see Thomas Duncan's list at http://www.public.asu.edu/~ideology/rbf.html] 5. Note from 4D Solutions This communication is distributed free via the internet by 4D Solutions, a private solutions provider based in Portland, Oregon. Kirby Urner is responsible for the content and any inaccuracies or omissions should be brought to his attention. Email your news and comments to: pdx4d@teleport.com. Past issues: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/4dchron.html ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:07:21 +1100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles Cave Subject: Synergia for Windows...have you used it? I was wondering if anyone has used the "Synergia" program for Windows which has a hypertext version of "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth" along with a todo list and diary program. It sells for around $US50. Can anyone comment on this program? Thanks Charles Cave Sydney, Australia Creativity Web Page: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~caveman/Creative -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o-o- Fetails supplied by the software vendor: *********************************** Geodesic Software Presents Synergia For Microsoft Windows ********************************** Synergia is software for the mind. It was inspired by the writings of Buckminster Fuller. The idea is to create a set of software tools that assists in promoting creativity. Synergia consists of three programs and comes with a pretty manual. The programs are: 1.Operating Tools For Spaceship Earth 2.dbClient Manager 3.Database Diary How are dbClient Manager and Database Diary related to Operating Tools...? Consider Operating Tools...as the instruction manual to Database Diary and dbClient Manager. For example, when you buy a radio,or any other appliance it comes with instructions. Operating Tools... acts as the conceptual basis for the tools. It gives you an understanding of what they are there for. A description of them is as follows: Database Diary A electronic diary in the form of database Fully push button operated Automatically stores date and time Browse/search utility dbClient Manager Stores names,addresses phone numbers and bitmap files and notes of people you know 98 % push button operated Can print out hard copy of records Does mailing labels. Visual browse box shows all records at a given time Operating Tools For Spaceship Earth Enhanced hypertext version of Operating Manual For Spaceship Earth Explanation of hard to understand terms Each chapter in its own window. Can read two or more chapters at once. Can tile or cascade two windows. Comes with a built in editor. Can call up any Windows modem software, providing you have enough memory Can call up Database Diary and dbClient Manager ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:31:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Alan Ferguson Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com) Subject: ever rethinking lord's prayer Does anyone know where I can get any more versions of Fuller's "ever rethinking the lord's prayer" I already have the version in "critical path" and the two included with "intuition" since he apparently came up with a new version every time he slept I am wondering if there is some kind of archive of them? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks , Alan Ferguson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:42:14 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Don Schenck Subject: Re: economics of domes <> Okay ... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. So how do I get in touch with Stuart Brand or "Whole Earth" to verify your story. Peace, -- Don ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:10:48 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: economics of domes In-Reply-To: <01BB837F.7B6C4900@sl46.cyberia.com>; from "Don Schenck" at Aug 6, 96 8:42 am Don Schenck writes: > < . I'll bet Stuart Brand or the people at the > Whole Earth could tell you more. > <> > Okay ... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. So how do I get in touch > with Stuart Brand or "Whole Earth" to verify your story. http://www.well.net/mwec/ -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:33:57 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marco Tognon Subject: Re: economics of domes >remi wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I'm currently writing an article about geodesic domes. My question >> is: why geodesic domes didn't work? > Let me try to give a partial answer to your question. I look at it through the eyes and mind of the average Belgian homebuilder. Where is a dome standing? How much will it cost (finished) Do they leak? What about the local building athorities? Right. Most of these questions come back time after time. But the most crucial of all is the one about the local building dep. They are the greatest strumbling block and I must say, from my own experiance, a HUGE one. I would say, A Dome Exhibition Show, held, lets say every 2 year, and with ALL Dome Manufacturers, architects, plumbers, cabinet makers, elektricians, carpenters, etc, etc... together, at the same time, in the same place, could make the concept known to the average home owner / builder. Show the people everything about domes. Let them "FEEL" and "TOUCH" a dome. Let them walk in it and let them take some flyers home, FOR FREE... I think that until the Dome profesionals realize that they must work and make front together, they keep on fighting a trench war against the SQUARIES. People are BUYING a concept, SELLING it is harder. I'm collecting information on domes for several years now, and my initial plans to build one are not yet burried, I realize that the average builder in Belgium, and probably all over Europe, will not easely be converted to build a dome. Especialy not with the information given by the manufacturers... The average builder here "build" his house in his mind and know exactly where every brick, knob or window will come. The way the information on domes is presented is not clear enough. Videos tapes are not available in PAL or Secam, you have to pay for each single scrap of paper and it takes weeks before the mail gets through... Domes are allmost an exclusive US business, ..............Unless, A smart and dearing manufacturer wants to install a few domes and open an sales office and or a factory in Europe. People are amazed and like the concept, but do not dare to venture it. They need a little push in the back. I try to push them, but it's hard labour and time consuming. I wished I knew everything on domes and had plenty of free leaflets to give to them. I can not give away the ones I paid for. But to finish it off, Information on the matter is missing... that's the cause of the slow pase dome building is moving. I believe in it, and I know, "I'me not alone..." Good luck, Tognon Marco Meeenheide 83A B3600 Genk Belgium Marco.Tognon@ping.be ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:43:01 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ross Keatinge Organization: Internet ProLink NZ, Auckland Subject: How to build a model tensegrity? Hi there I have been fascinated by pictures of tensegrity models and would like to build one. However I haven't quite understood the process of converting a polyhedra to a tensegrity. I wonder if someone can point me to some information which would show me how to make such a model with struts and strings. I spent many hours a few years ago building model geodesic spheres and domes. I'm hosting a get together of friends and friends of friends in a few weeks to watch "Thinking out loud". It would be nice to have something like that to show them to perhaps fuel further interest. Thanks -- Ross Keatinge rossk@iprolink.co.nz Auckland, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:32:23 +1100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles Cave Organization: Unidata Inc Subject: Who has used Synergia for Windows? (Op Manual for Spaceship Earth) I was wondering if anyone has used the "Synergia" program for Windows which has a hypertext version of "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth" along with a todo list and diary program. It sells for around $US50. Can anyone comment on this program? Thanks Charles Cave charles@jolt.mpx.com.au Sydney, Australia Creativity Web Page: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~caveman/Creative -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o-o- Fetails supplied by the software vendor: *********************************** Geodesic Software Presents Synergia For Microsoft Windows ********************************** Synergia is software for the mind. It was inspired by the writings of Buckminster Fuller. The idea is to create a set of software tools that assists in promoting creativity. Synergia consists of three programs and comes with a pretty manual. The programs are: 1.Operating Tools For Spaceship Earth 2.dbClient Manager 3.Database Diary How are dbClient Manager and Database Diary related to Operating Tools...? Consider Operating Tools...as the instruction manual to Database Diary and dbClient Manager. For example, when you buy a radio,or any other appliance it comes with instructions. Operating Tools... acts as the conceptual basis for the tools. It gives you an understanding of what they are there for. A description of them is as follows: Database Diary A electronic diary in the form of database Fully push button operated Automatically stores date and time Browse/search utility dbClient Manager Stores names,addresses phone numbers and bitmap files and notes of people you know 98 % push button operated Can print out hard copy of records Does mailing labels. Visual browse box shows all records at a given time Operating Tools For Spaceship Earth Enhanced hypertext version of Operating Manual For Spaceship Earth Explanation of hard to understand terms Each chapter in its own window. Can read two or more chapters at once. Can tile or cascade two windows. Comes with a built in editor. Can call up any Windows modem software, providing you have enough memory Can call up Database Diary and dbClient Manager ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:11:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: BDC Organization: Exec-PC BBS - Milwaukee, WI Subject: geodesic math I need to ind a copy of the book "Geodesic Math an how to Use it", By Hugh Kenner. It is not available in my area. I would be glad to purchase a copy. Can some one help me understad the very basics of the icosa ? I can not seem to find simple definitions of chords, etc. or the overal approach of the math. Thanks, Brad Burnett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 04:04:41 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Curricula & the Design Iniative Notes Here are some notes I recently made. I left out various detailed descriptions and examples to try to get to the basic gist of the essay. It seems to be along the lines that J. Baldwin is promoting in his iniatives he is writing about in the Whole Earth News. Bill Paton Solutioneer Curricula and the Design Iniative -Notes Notes taken from the essay in Utopia or Oblivion by R. Buckminster Fuller Taking the iniative means that the design scientist- like the medical scientist- will no longer operate on a basis of having to be retained by a client to carry out the client's prime design concepts. The curriculum will prepare the design-science graduate to undertake fundamental invention, self-underwriting, development, and experimental proof of invention as demonstrated for instance by the Wright brothers wherein the design-science professional will be equipped with all of the economic, legal, and technological knowledge necessary for reducing such inventons to going industrial practice. To realize such "breakthrough-magnitude" inventions- commercially, militarily, or even socially- involves the individual preparing himself for the competent taking of the initiative in a whole new industry and its progressive development, testing, prototyping, tooling, marketing, servicing, maintaining, operating and phasing-in of progressive evolutionary components within the totally new industrial system together with designed phasing-out of equipment and functions made obsolete by the new industry. This, in turn, releases metals, and other materials, time, and energy resources for reinvestment in the newest phase of the evololutionary system. 1. The design scientist will not be concerned exclusively with the seat of a tractor but with the whole concept of production and distribution of food. He will initiate a total industry. In short, the design scientist will not wait to be retained before tackling problems, and will not be concerned exclusively with carrying out the local detailing of a part of a component product within a general industrial venture system which has already been primarily designed by the industrial client. 2. Design-science-school students will be encouraged to organize themselves to study whole industries and the relationship of total industry to general society needs. For instance, students might study every aspect of the air-transport industry. This study could start with the new ecology of world and space man. They might undertake to redesign the whole industry. Such general concepts can be worked on by a given design-science school over a period of time as a continuing research in a given art. Students and faculty will be continually confronted with an awareness of all the disciplines essential to the individual in order to enable the most effective attack upon such comprehensive designing. What will they need to know, not only to make the most effective solutions, but to make effectively known the results of their work to all industrial and governmental agencies as well as to the segments of the public concerned wth use of their unique and comprehensive design science innovations? 3. To undertake comprehensive, generalized system-theory research in a systematic manner by which the individual design-science schools will each tackle an individual industry while correlating all their efforts with others on a world basis. It will be appropriate for a professional Design Science Society of the world to coordinate the world-around design-science school curricula and to notify all the industries concerned. I propose that design science as the objective applied discipline accomplished by combined industrial design, engineering, architecture, and all sciences- shall be so organized as to provide effective anticipatory strategies for formulating and managing the evolution of mankind's external, metabolic regeneration of the industrial self-organsms in the same anticipatory service manner that the medical profession has anticipatorily dealt with individual man's interior, organic processes of metabolic regeneration. I think we must all assume that Malthus was wrong and thus it is normal for man to be a physical and economic success-that by producing machines and tools that will produce more with less, man must continually demonstrate the mastery of the physical by the metaphysical faculties by which he is endowed. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:33:54 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: geodesic math * This message contains the file '3dms.bmp', which has been * uuencoded. 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M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````____ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________________________________P`` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M``#_________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____```````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M`````````/__________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________\````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M````````````````____________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________P`````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````````````#_____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________________```````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M`````````````````````````````/______________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________\````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M````````````````````````````````````________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________P`````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````````````````````````````````#_________________ M____________________________________________________________ A____________________________________________ end ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:33:56 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: geodesic math * This message contains the file 'dome.bmp', which has been * uuencoded. 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M______S/___________________________________\S,__S/__________ M_________\S________________,_________________\S____\S,______ MS/__S/_\S_S/_,_\S___S/_,_\S_S/___________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,______________________________________________ M_________________________________\S__________________,___\S_ MS/_____,___,__S/_\S\S_S/___,_\S_S/_,____________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________\S_____________________________S,S___S/__ M___,__S,S__,S/__S,S__\S,S_______________S/__________________ MS/__S/_,_____\S__\S__,___,S/_,___\S_S/_,_\S_________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________S/____________________________S/_, M___,_____\S_S/_,_,_\S_S/_,_\S_S/_______________,____________ M_______\S_S/__S/____S/__S,_\S_S/_,_\S_S/S/_,_\S_S/__________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________,__________________________ M_____\S__,S/____S/_,___\S_S/___\S_S/_,_______________\S_____ M_______________,_,___,_____,___,S/S/_\S,___,S/_\S,__S,S/____ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________\S___________________ M____________S/_,_\S____,_\S___S/_,__S,S__\S\S_______________ MS/_________________,_\S__________\S_________________________ M_______________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M___________________,_\S_S/___\S_S/___,_\S_S/_____,S/________ M_______,_________________\S_S/__________S/_____\S___________ M_____________________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M________________________S,_\S__\S___S/_,_\S\S_S/_,_\S_S/_,__ M_____________\S__________________,S/_________,S,S,____S/____ M____________________________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________________________\ MS_______________________________S/S/__S/___,__S,S__,S/__S,S_ M_\S,________________S/______________________________________ M___________________________________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/_______________________________,_________\S_________ M___________________________,________________________________ M_________________________________________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,_____________________________,_\S_________S/__ M_________________________________\S_________________________ M________________________________________________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________\S_____________________________S,S_______ M___,____________________________________S/__________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________S/________________________________ M_______________________________________________,____________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________,__________________________ M_____________________________________________________\S_____ M____________________________________________________________ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________\S___________________ M____________________________________________________________ MS/__________________________________________________________ M_______________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______,____________________________________________________ M_____________________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________\S_____________________________________________ M____________________________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________________________\ MS___________________________________________________________ M____________________S/______________________________________ M___________________________________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/____________________________________________________ M___________________________,________________________________ M_________________________________________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,_______________________\S_____________________ M_________________________________\S_________________________ M________________________________________________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________\S_______________________S/______________ MS,S,_______________,S/__________________S/__________________ M______________S/____________________________________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________S/_______________________,________ M_______,_________________,_\S__________________,____________ M_____________________,______________________________________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________,_______________________\S_ M_____________\S___________________S/_________________\S_____ M___________________________\S_____________________S,S,______ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________\S___________________ M____S/_______________,___________________,__________________ MS/________________________________S/_____________________,__ M_______________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M___________,________________S/_________________\S___________ M_______,_________________________________,__________________ M___\S________________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M_________________\S________________\S________________,S_____ M_____________\S________________________________\S___________ M___________,________________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________________________\ MS_______________________S/_________________,________________ M_,__________________S/________________________________S/____ M__________________S/_______________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/_____________________\S,_______________,_\S_________ M_______\S__________________,________________________________ M_,_______________________\S______________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,_______________________\S______________\S_S/__ M___________\S_S/_________________\S_________________________ M______S,S________________________,______________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________\S_____________\````````````````````````` M#,S```````````````#,S`````````````______S/__________________ M______________S/_____________________,_\S___________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________S/_____________P`````````````````` M````````````````````````````````````````#______,____________ M_P````````````````````````````#N```````````,P`S````````.[@#_ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________,______________\`#_________ M_______N[_________________[N________________```/_____\S_____ M________`````````````````````````````.X```````````#,S``````` M#N[N`/__________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________\S______________P`/__ M_____________^[O________________[N[_______________``#_______ MS/______________[N[_________________________[O______________ M______[N[N`/___________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M__\`#________________N[_______________[N[_______________``#_ M_______,_______________N[N[_______________________[N________ M____________[N[@`/___________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M_________P``_______________^[N______________[N[_____________ M__\`#________\S_______________#N[N[______________________N[_ M_________________^[N[P``____________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________________________\ MS_______________\`#________________N[O_____________N[_______ M________\``/________S/_______________P#N[N__________________ M___^[__________________^[N[P``_____________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/________________``________________[N_____________N[_ M______________\``/_________,________________``_N[N__________ M__________[O_________________N[N__``_____________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,________________\``/_______________^[O________ M___N[O_______________P`/_________\S________________P`/[N[N__ M_________________N________________[N[N__``______________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________\S_________________``________________[N[_ M_________N[O_______________P`/__________S/________________`` M__[N[O_________________^[_______________[N[O__``#___________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________S/_________________P`/____________ M___^[O_________N[O_______________P``___________,____________ M_____P`/__[N[O_______________^[O_____________^[N[___``#_____ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________,__________________``______ M___________N[________N[O_______________P``___________\S_____ M____________``___^[N[O______________[N_____________^[N[___\` M#_______________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________\S_____________S,S__P M`/_______________^[N_______N[O________________``____________ MS/_________________P`/___^[N[______________N_____________N[N M____\`#________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ MS/_,__``#________________N[O_____N[O________________``______ M_______,__________________``_____^[N[____________^[_________ M__[N[N____\``/_______________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M_________\S__P`/________________[N_____N[O________________`` M#____________\S__________________P`/_____N[N[___________[O__ M________[N[O____\``/________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________________________\ MS_______________S/__\`#________________^[O___N[O____________ M____``#____\S,______S/__________________``_______N[N________ M___N_________^[N[______P`/_________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/_______________,___P``________________[N[__^[O______ M__________\`#____\S_S/_____,___________________P`/_______N[N M_________^[________^[N[______P`/_________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,______________S,_____N[N[N[N[N[N[O_____^[O_^[O M________________\`#________,_____\S___________________``____ M____[N[N_______^[O_______N[N_______P``__________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________\S_______________S/___^[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N M[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[O_______\S_____S/__________________ M_P`/________[N[O______[N______[N[N________``________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________S/_______________,____\`#________^ M[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N________S/_____,____________ M________``__________[N[O_____N______[N[O________``__________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________,_____________,_\S_____``__ M_______________N[N_________________P`.[______\S/_____\S_____ M_______________P`/_________^[N[O___^[____^[N[_________``#___ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________\S_____________S,S___ M__\``/_______________^[N_________________P`/_________\S_____ MS/____________________``___________^[N[___[O___^[N[_________ M``#____________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M__________``_______________^[N[O_______________P``__________ MS/_____,_____________________P`/___________^[N[__N___N[N____ M______\`#____________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M_________________P`/_____________^[N[N[______________P``____ M____S/_,_____\S_____________________``_____________N[N[^[_[N M[N__________\`#_____________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________________________\ MS_______________________``_____________^[N_^[O______________ M``_________\S,______S/_____________________P#______________N M[N[O[N[O__________\``/_____________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/_______________________P`/____________[N___N[_______ M______``___________________,________________S,S,__``________ M_______N[N[N[___________\``/_____________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,________________________``#___________[N___^[N M____________``#__________________\S________________,____\`#_ M______________[N[N[____________P`/______________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________\S________________________P`/__________[N M[____N[___________``#___________________S/_______________\S_ M____``_______________N[N[O___________P`/____________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________S/________________________\`#_____ M____[N[_____[N__________\`#____________________,____________ M_____,____\`#_____________[N[N[N[O_________P``______________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________\`____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________,_________________________P M``________[N[______N[O________\`#____________________\S_____ M____________S/____``____________[N[N_^[N[O________``________ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________P#_____________________________ M____________________________________________\`______________ M_______________________________________\S___________________ M______\`#_______[N[_______[N[_______\``/____________________ MS/_________________\S___\`#__________^[N[N[__^[N[_______``__ M____S,S,_______________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________`/______________________ M___________________________________________________P#_______ M______________________________________________S/____________ M_________,S,S_``______[N[________^[O______\``/______________ M_______,___________________,____``_________^[N[^[O___^[N[___ M__``#______,_________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________\``/__``#____P#__P``__\```__```/\`_P#__P`` M__\```____________________________________________________`/ M_____________________________________________________,______ M_______________\S___\`#_____[N[__________N[______P`/________ M_____________\S________________,_\S___\`#________N[N__[O____ M_N[N[___``#______\S_________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________________\`_P#_`/\`____`/_P#_`/\`_P#_`/\`_P#_ M`/_P#_`/\`_P#___________________________\``/__``#____P#__P`` M__\```__```/\`_P#__P``__\```_______________________________\ MS_____________________S/____``____[N[__________^[N_____P`/__ M____________________S/_______________\S_S/____``______[N[N__ M_N_______N[N__\`#________,_________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________________`/\`_P#___\`__`/___P#_`/\` M_P#_`/\`__`/___P#_`/__________________________\`_P#_`/\`____ M`/_P#_`/\`_P#_`/\`_P#_`/_P#_`/\`_P#_________________________ M______S/_____________________\S___\``/__[N[____________N[___ M_P``___\S,S/_______________,_________________,S/____\`#_____ M[N[O___^[________N[N\`#_________S/_______________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________________________________\`_P#_`/___P#_\`____ M`/\`_P#_`/\`_P#_\`____`/\`______________________________`/\` M_P#___\`__`/___P#_`/\`_P#_`/\`__`/___P#_`/__________________ M_____________,_______________________,____``___N[___________ M__[N___P``____S/_________________\S_________________________ M``___^[N[_____[O________[N[N`/_________\S_______________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________________P#_`/\`____`/ M_P```/\`_P#_`/\`_P#_`/_P```/\`_P#___________________________ M__\`_P#_`/___P#_\`____`/\`_P#_`/\`_P#_\`____`/\`____________ M___________________\S_______________________S/___P`/_N[_____ M_________N[O__``_____,__________________S/__________________ M______\`#__^[N[______N__________[NX/___________,____________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________\`#_\`_P M#___\`#_`/\`_P#_`/\`_P#_`/\`#_`/\`_P#_`/____________________ M_________P#_`/\`____`/_P```/\`_P#_`/\`_P#_`/_P```/\`_P#_____ M__________________________S/_______________________\S___``#N M[O______________[N[_``______S/_________________,____________ M______________``_N[N_______N[__________P[O_________,_\S_____ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M\`_P#_`/___P``_P``__\```_P#_`/\`_P``_P``__\```______________ M______________\`#_\`_P#___\`#_`/\`_P#_`/\`_P#_`/\`#_`/\`_P#_ M`/_______________________________,_____________________\S_S/ M___P#N[O_______________^[O``#______\S________________\S_____ M____________________\`[N[N_______^[O_________P`/_________\S_ MS/______________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______P#_`/\`_____________________________________P#_______ M______________________\`_P#_`/___P``_P``__\```_P#_`/\`_P``_P M``__\```_______________________________\S___________________ M__S/_,_____N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[@#________,________________ MS/__________________________#N[O________[O_________P``______ M_____,S/_______________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________P#_`/\`_P#_______________________`/____________`/ M_____________________________P#_`/\`________________________ M_____________P#_______________________________S/____________ M_________\S,_____^[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N#_________S/________ M_______,__________________________\.[__________N_________P`` M_____________________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________\``/__``#_______________________\`________ M____\`___________________________P#_`/\`_P#_________________ M______`/____________`/_______________________________,______ M________________________[@#__________________N#_______S/_,__ M_____________\S___________________________``_________^[_____ M____``______________________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________________________________\``/__``#___________ M____________\`____________\`_______________________________\ MS______________________________P``________________\``/______ M_,_\S_______________S/__________________________\`#_________ M[O________``_______________________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/______________________________\`#_______________\``/ M________S,S________________,____________________________``__ M______[N________``#______________________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,________________________________``____________ M___P`/___________________________\S_________________________ M__\`#________N[_______\`#_______________________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________\S_______________________________\`#_____ M_________P`/____________________________S/__________________ M__________`/_______^[_______\`#_____________________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________\`````________________________________ M__________________________S/________________________________ M``_____________P``_____________________________,____________ M________________\`#_______[O______\``/______________________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________\```````````#_________________________ M_________________________________,__________________________ M______\``/___________P``_____________________________\S_____ M_______________________P`/_______N______\``/________________ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________\``````````````/^JK___________________ M_______________________________________\S___________________ M______________``____________``______________________________ MS/____________________________\`#______^[______P`/__________ M_______________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________``````#___________________________________________ M______________________\``````````````/______^JK_____________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M_____________________P`/__________``________________________ M_______,_____________________________P`/______[O_____P`/____ M_____________________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________\```````````````#___________________________ M____________________`````````````````/____________^JJO______ M_____________________________________________________,______ M____________________________``#_________``#_________________ M_____________\S_____________________________\`#_____[N_____P M``__________________________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________________W=__\````````````````````````/______ M__________________________\``````````/___________________ZJO M___________________________________________________________\ MS__________________________________P`/________``#___________ M____________________S/_____________________________P`/_____N M[____P``___________________________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________]W?__________\``````````````` M_________________________________P"J________________________ M___ZJO______________________________________________________ M______S/__________________________________\`#_______\`#_____ M___________________________,______________________________\` M#____^[_____``___________________________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________W=W___________________ M____W0#__________________________________ZJO________________ M_________ZJJ________________________________________________ M_____________,________________________________S/_P`/______\` M#________________________________\S_________________________ M_____P`/____[O____``____________________________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________]W?____________ M___________=W___________________________________JJK_________ M________________JJ__________________________________________ M___________________\S________________________________,__\`#_ M____\``/________________________________S/__________________ M____________\`#____N____``#_________________________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________________=W_____ M_________________=W____________________________________ZJO__ M______________________JJ____________________________________ M__________________________S/_______________________________\ MS__P``____\``/___\S____________________________,____________ M___________________P`/___^[___\`#___________________________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M___________________________________________________________] MW=_____________________=W?__________________________________ M__^JK_______________________JJK_____________________________ M_________________________________,__________________________ M______S/__\`#____P`/____S/___________________________\S_____ M__________________________\`#___[O__\`#_____________________ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______=W____________________=W?____________________________ M_________ZJJ______________________JJK_______________________ M_______________________________________\S___________________ M_____________,____``___P`/_____,____________________________ MS/_______________________________P`/__[N__\``/______________ M_______________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________W=___________________]W?______________________ M________________^JK_____________________^JK_________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M___________________\S___\``/_P``_____\S_____________________ M_______,_____________________________\S_\`#__N[_\``/_____,__ M_____________________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________=W?_________________]W?________________ M________________________JJ____________________^JK___________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M__________________________S/____``_P``______S/______________ M_____________\S_____________________________S/_P`/_^[__P`/__ M___\S_______________________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________W=_________________]W=__________ M______________________________^JJO__________________^JJO____ M___________________________________________________________\ MS________________________________,_____P`/``_______,________ M____________________S/_____________________________,__\`#_[O M_P`/______S/_______________________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________]W?_______________]W=____ M______________________________________JJ___________________Z MJO__________________________________________________________ M______S/______________________________S,S_____````_______\S_ M___________________________,_____________________________\S_ M_P`/_N_P``_______,_______________________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________________________W=W____P#_________ MW=___________________________________________ZJO____________ M_____ZJO____________________________________________________ M_____________,________________________________S/_____P``#___ M____S/___________________________\S_________________________ M____S/__\`#^[P``_______\S_______________________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________________________]W?____`/__ M______W=____________________________________________JJK_____ M_=___=_____ZJJ______________________________________________ M___________________\S_______________________________________ M``#______\S,____________________________S/__________________ M___________,___P`.[O``________S/____________________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M_________________________________________________________=W_ M__\`________W=W____________________________________________Z MJO_____]W__]W_____JJ________________________________________ M__________________________S/________________________________ M_______P#________\S____________________________,____________ M_________________\S___\`[N``_________,______________________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___]W=___P#_______W=W_______________________________________ M______^JK_____W?__W?____JJ__________________________________ M_________________________________,__________________________ M_____________________________________________________\S_____ M________________________S/___P#N``#________\S_______________ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________=W___````#____=W_________________________________ M_____________ZJJ_____=___=____JJK___________________________ M_______________________________________\S___________________ M____________________________________________________________ MS/___________________________\S,____\.X`#________,S/________ M_______________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________W=__\`__\`___=W___________________________ M____________________^JK____]W__]W___^JK_____________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______,_____________________________\S____P[@#__________,__ M_____________________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________=W?_P#__P#__=W?____________________ M____________________________JJ____W=W=W?__^JK_______________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________\S____________________________________N#_______ M____________________________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________________________W=__`/__`/_=W?______________ M__________________________________^JJO___=___=__^JJO________ M___________________________________________________________\ MS___________________________________________________________ M____________________S/___________________________________P`/ M___________________________________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________]W?\`__\`_=W?________ M__________________________________________JJ___]W__]W__ZJO__ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/____________________________________________________ M___________________________,________________________________ M____`/___________________________________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________________W=WP````_]W?__ M_________________________________________________ZJO__W?__W? M_ZJO________________________________________________________ M_____________,______________________________________________ M_________________________________\S_________________________ M________________________________________________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________________________________]W?____ M_]W?____________________________________________________JJK_ M_=___=_ZJJ__________________________________________________ M___________________\S_______________________________________ M________________________________________S/__________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___,________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_=W____]W=__________________________________________________ M___ZJO________JJ____________________________________________ M__________________________S/________________________________ M_______________________________________________,____________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________\S_________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______]W=___]W=____________________________________________ M__________^JK_______JJ______________________________________ M_________________________________,__________________________ M_____________________________________________________\S_____ M____________________________________________________________ M________________S/__________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________=W___W=______________________________________ M_________________ZJJ______JJK_______________________________ M_______________________________________\S___________________ M____________________________________________________________ MS/__________________________________________________________ M_______________________,____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________W=__W=________________________________ M________________________^JK_____JJK_________________________ M______________________________________________S/____________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______,____________________________________________________ M_____________________________\S_____________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________________________=W?W=W_________________________ M________________________________JJ____^JK___________________ M_____________________________________________________,______ M____________________________________________________________ M_____________\S_____________________________________________ M____________________________________S/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________W=W=W___________________ M______________________________________^JJO__^JK_____________ M___________________________________________________________\ MS___________________________________________________________ M____________________S/______________________________________ M___________________________________________,________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________]W=W_____________ M______________________________________________JJ__^JJO______ M____________________________________________________________ M______S/____________________________________________________ M___________________________,________________________________ M_________________________________________________\S_________ M____________________________________________________________ M__________________________________________________W=W_______ M_____________________________________________________ZJO_ZJO M____________________________________________________________ M_____________,______________________________________________ M_________________________________\S_________________________ M________________________________________________________S/__ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________________________________=W? 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M__```/______________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________P``#__________=W___________\```__ M________________________________________``#____________=W___ M__________``#_______________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________________________________________________F9G_ M^9_YG_^9F?__F9F?^9__F9F?___YF9G__YF9__F?____________________ M_________________________________P``#__________]W?__________ M__\```________________________________________``#___________ M__W?_____________P``#_______________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M__F?^9_YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9____F?^9_YG_F?^9______________ M_______________________________________P``____________W?____ M__________```/______________________________________``#_____ M_________=______________\```________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9_YG___^9_YG_F?____________ M_____________________________________________P``____________ M_=________________```/____________________________________`` M#______________]W?______________\```________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________F9G_^9_YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9_YG_F?___YG_F?^9______ M__________________________________________________\```______ M_______]W________________P``#_______________________________ M____``#_______________W=________________```/________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________F?___YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9____F?^9_Y MF9F?____________________________________________________\``` M______________W?_________________P``#_______________________ M__________``#________________]W_________________```/________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________^9_YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9_YG_F?^9_YG___ M^9_YG_F?^9__________________________________________________ M___P`/_______________=__________________\```________________ M________________``#_________________W?_________________P``#_ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________F9G_^9F9__^9F?_YG_F?^9__ MF9F?___YF9G__YF9____________________________________________ M________W=W=_______________]W___________________\```\``````` M#,S,P```````````````````W=W=_______________=W_______________ M___P``______________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________________YG___________ M___YG___^9____F?____________________________________________ M_______________=W=W=W=W___________W?_________________=W=T``` M```````,P`````````````````````#=W=W=W=W__________]W?________ M__________\```_________________YF9F9F9F9F9F9F9F9F9F9F9G_____ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M______________________________________________________F?____ M__________F?___YG___^9______________________________________ M______________________``W=W=W=W=W?_______=__________S/W=W=W= MW=W?"JK_______S/____________________``__W=W=W=W Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: geodesic math On: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:11:10 -0700, Brad Burnett, From: BDC Can some one help me understad the very basics of the icosa ? >I can not seem to find simple definitions of chords, etc. or the overal >approach of the math. Hi Brad To get you started, I've included two BMP drawings which may clarify some of the concepts. (A picture says a thousand words). Most domes used as dwellings are 3 frequency breakdowns of the basic icosahedron, simply referred to as a 3 frequency dome. The frequency describes the number of times one of the faces of the basic icosahedron has been subdivided into smaller triangles to achieve a 'smoother' curved surface shape. Two methods of subdivision are possible, the Class 1 breakdown (most popular because of the number of similar triangles produced) and the alternate breakdown (not so popular because of the number of dissimilar triangles produced). Please refer to the attached drawing (dome.bmp). >From here on it is plain sailing to determine the triangle side lengths: Step 1 is to decide what size dome you are interested in and then to determine the radius of the sphere. Step 2 is to multiply the radius by each of the three different chord factors (for a 3 freq. dome). The results of which are the different triangle side lengths. Magenta, black and green colour coding is used in the attached drawing. Step 3 is to look at the colour coding provided by the drawing to determine where each triangle fits. A 3/8 sphere (just a convenient way to say that you are talking of slightly less than a hemisphere) with five door openings comprises of 6 x pentagon and 5 x hexagon shapes. The pentagon shape comprises of 5 triangles and the hexagon of 6 triangles which totals up to 60 triangles to complete the dome. Only two different size triangles are required for this type of dome. A 3 frequency dome (unlike a 2 frequency breakdown) does not form a natural dividing line at the middle of the sphere, hence the footprint for a 3/8 sphere is slightly less than the radius used to determine the triangle sides. Additional triangles may be added to provide a 5/8 sphere. Different chord factors are required for the various dome breakdown frequencies. I do not know how to calculate these, I simply look them up in DomeBook II. Please advise if you require additional information. Dawie Venter (Cape Town, S.Africa) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:57:38 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: syn-l: Comments (fwd) Thomas Duncan writes: > From greta.teleport.com!teleport.com!owner-synergetics-l Tue Aug 6 09:53:22 1996 > Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:52:23 -0700 > From: Thomas Duncan > Subject: syn-l: Comments > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Message-id: <32077847.340E@asu.edu> > Organization: Human Systems Architecture > MIME-version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b5a (Win95; I) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Sender: owner-synergetics-l@teleport.com > Reply-To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Precedence: bulk > > Dear Synergeometricians, > > As a estranged Canadian now living in the deserts of Arizona and not so > far from the not very spherical biosphere where the ensconced humans > fought over food portions and generally reverted to believing they were > wholly body rather than mind, I appreciate Gerald de Jong's observations > and well crafted comments. > > My personal thoughts and experience suggest what we learn is far more > important than what we teach. Teaching is giving, and it is impossible > to give something without first having it. How many of us are able to > associate 'first principles' and Synergetic Geometry with the events in > our personal lives? How many of us use 'first principles' to guide our > decision making or relationships? Individual understanding and > appreciation of the presence and influence of 'first principles' must > come before we can move beyond local political boundaries much less > think about doing anything truly intelligent outside the limits of this > little dirt ball planet's mass attraction. > > Bucky reminded us that although we all eat and we all have assholes, we > are not the compilation of countless meals, and (butt?) we are not our > assholes. We are so so much more, and that 'more' must be mind. Mind > shares all the qualities of principle. Being everywhere in no - time - > at - all and eternal, mind is timeless and thus beyond all > 'dimensioning'. Only mind is capable of creation and discovering that > which is invisible. Sadly, few humand are willing to make life decisions > based on this nonphysical reality instead of a desire for physical > comfort and gratification. > > For some time, I have been compiling a bibliography on Fuller. Kirby has > been kind enough to list the URL in The 4D Chronicler and I would > appreciate those of you with similar lists to check it for accuracy and > omissions. > > Please note the URL: > > > > -- > Thomas Duncan > E-mail: scooter@asu.edu > http://www.public.asu.edu/~ideology > .- > -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:03:32 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: syn-l: more with less..how's that again? (fwd) danu@monitor.net writes: > From greta.teleport.com!teleport.com!owner-synergetics-l Tue Aug 6 12:31:10 1996 > From: danu@monitor.net > X-Sender: danu@mail.monitor.net > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:33:57 -0800 > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Subject: syn-l: more with less..how's that again? > Sender: owner-synergetics-l@teleport.com > Reply-To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Precedence: bulk > > metaphysical haiku #2 > > 'More with less' suggests > 'neither more nor less' might do > in this 'nu haiku > > --da nu > > > .- > -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:59:30 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Merewether Subject: Re: geodesic math >MW=___________]W=W?_P`/______________________________________ >M______________________________F?__G_^9F?_YG___^9__^?^9__^9_Y >MG____YF9___YG__YG_F9G_F?^9___Y_____YG__YG__YG_F?_YF9__F9G_F? >M^9___Y_YG___^9____^9__F?____________________________________ >M____________________________________________________________ >M____________________________________________________________ >M______________________________________________\`#=W=W_______ >M_______=W__________=W=W___``________________________________ >M_____________________________________YG_F?__F?__F?____F?^9_Y >MG__YG_F?____^9____F?__F?^9G_^9__F?_YG_____F?__F?__F?^9__^9__ >M^9G_^9__F?_YG_F?___YG____YG_^9______________________________ >M____________________________________________________________ etc,etc what the CENSORED is this supposed to be?! My Eudora does attached files no problem - this did not come as an attachment. and there's 7 more just like it. While I might be interested in the mathematics, there's an awful lot of stuff on this listserv that I have no interest in. Seems one could have send as an attachment or better yet pointed to the source somewhere or something more useful & efficient than this. Let those interested go get it from where ever - there's not even any description of what it is. - My next move is to unsubscribe. BTW you'all might check out strawbale (strawbale@crest.org) not so much for info as the mindset of using biodegradable materials, low impact on the planet. That's my beef w/ Fuller - no perspective on our place - putting people in geodesic floating cities, because we've run amuck in reproduction & despoiled the land by our sheer numbers & technology - and Fuller is just right along in the technology bandwagon. Oh he purports to use resources efficiently - but mining is extremely destructive to societies - like native americans & other indigeneous people that happen to live on land that techo-america "needs" to extract the "resources" of ore etc. and the environment. yes you can build some smaller geodesics out of lumber (tree people as some native americans call them), but most aren't and we're cutting trees far faster than they grow. Seems Fullerites are into techy fix for what's a spiritual problem. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:17:12 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Danu Smith Subject: Re: geodesic math hi dawie, your posted notes on domebuilding were informative, and i'd like to see your 2 pics, but please send them as attachments if you can, and not in the posts as you did, which take up the space of 18 messages in our boxes (9 in syn-1, 9 in geodes-l). i doubt that anyone will extract these manually one at a time, so i'm just deleting ours. thanks for your interest tho. --danu At 3:33 AM 8/7/96, Venter, Dawie wrote: > * This message contains the file '3dms.bmp', which has been > * uuencoded. If you are using Pegasus Mail, then you can use > * the browser's eXtract function to lift the original contents > * out to a file, otherwise you will have to extract the message > * and uudecode it manually. > >begin 660 3dms.bmp >M0DWV*`(``````'8````H````@`(``+H!```!``0````````````````````` >M````````````````````@```@````("``(````"``(``@(```("`@`#`P,`` >M``#_``#_````__\`_P```/\`_P#__P``____`/______________________ >M____________________________________________________________..etc etc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:17:39 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Danu Smith Subject: Re: How to build a model tensegrity? At 1:43 AM 8/6/96, Ross Keatinge wrote: >Hi there > >I have been fascinated by pictures of tensegrity models and would like >to build one. However I haven't quite understood the process of >converting a polyhedra to a tensegrity. > >I wonder if someone can point me to some information which would show >me how to make such a model with struts and strings. I spent many >hours a few years ago building model geodesic spheres and domes. > hi there ross, i'm relaying excerpts from various post about models. let us know how you do. > The problem may be solved only by switching to a better > technology, perhaps the elastic thread sold in the > sewing department of dime stores. I have never used this > thread, since I can't be bothered with tying all the knots > required, and the Post Office keeps giving me more rubber > bands every day... Something I'm thinking of is to use the flat elastic other than thread and use a grommet tool to rivet round gromments in each end. That way knots wouldn't be needed. I'd still like to make tensegrities using thin wire. They tend to be more durable but getting the lengths just right is difficult. Any thoughts on a good wire to strut bonding scheme? > The interesting thing is that the rubber bands do not all > degrade at the same rate, so one should check one's models > before entertaining. A few of my guests have been subjected > to sudden, unexpected catastrophic failures of models, always > because someone reached up and touched a model with aged rubber > bands. Bamboo sticks go EVERYWHERE! >Something I'm thinking of is to use the flat elastic other than >thread and use a grommet tool to rivet round gromments in each end. >That way knots wouldn't be needed. Please report if you come up with anything. >I'd still like to make tensegrities using thin wire. >They tend to be more durable but getting the lengths >just right is difficult. >Any thoughts on a good wire to strut bonding scheme? I use single strands of "picture hanger wire", which can be quickly "unbraided" with a reversible electric drill/screwdriver set on "unscrew": Tie the far end of the wire to a doorknob, uncoil the wire, and put the near end of the wire into the chuck of the drill. (This is an old cable-making trick in reverse.) The way I adjust wire lengths is to tighten the wire AFTER attaching both ends to the struts. I use an "H" shaped part, cut from an HO-scale model railroad "ladder". The ladders are made of die-cast metal, and I get them at the nearest Hobby Store (only a 40 mile drive one-way, but that's what I get for living in paradise...) Anyway, one simply twists the wire around the "H" shaped component, being sure to warp the wire evenly around the crossbar of the "H". It is a good idea to tighten things evenly around the model, a few turns for each wire in turn. When you get to the proper tension(s), loop the wire around one of the vertical bars of the "H" and there you have it. A "H" allows you about 1/2-inch of tightening, but if you can't cut your cable lengths to within 1/2", you are most likely doomed... ;) As far as attaching the wire to the struts, I drill struts, insert wire through the hole, and tie it off. I have a small X-acto brand hand-drill with tiny drill bits which works well, even on the BBQ skewers. (X-acto makes a whole bunch of tiny tools for modelers, including a tiny little hand saw and a matching tiny miter box.) When building with wire, I tend to use wooden dowels rather than BBQ skewers, since the dowels bend less, and stand up to the higher tension encountered during assembly and adjustment. One thing to recall is that if you want to drill holes, all struts must be about 1/2-inch LONGER than you calculate. The effective strut length is the length BETWEEN THE HOLES, and you need some wood on each end between the hole and the end of the strut to keep the hole from becoming a "notch". At 10:15 PM 6/4/96 +0000, you wrote: > I use single strands of "picture hanger wire", > which can be quickly "unbraided" with a reversible > electric drill/screwdriver set on "unscrew": > > Tie the far end of the wire to a doorknob, > uncoil the wire, and put the near end of the > wire into the chuck of the drill. (This is > an old cable-making trick in reverse.) > As a suggestion, I find that fishing "leader" material works well as is and does not need to be unbraided. It comes in different "pound test" strengths= . I have built models using this and other fishing supplies. Dowel stick works well for struts but is more expensive than skewers. I usually saw them into convient lengths and then attach small screw eyes on the ends. I then set up a small jig (i.e. two nails in a board) to make the tendons. Another fishing supply are small steel tubes used to create loops. You pass the leader through the tube and then pass the end through again to form a small loop. The steel tube is then crimped to fix the loop. The loop is set up on one end of the jig and the other end is wrapped around the other nail to fix the tendon length. The loop is terminated in the same way. All you have to do is slide it off the jig. This provides good tendon length repeatability. I should not that the wire loops aren't passed through the screw eyes but fit around them. I suppose small tacks would work just as well. These models are very durable and strong. As an aside, I built a three strut prism tensegrity using this method that is amazing. The strut lengths are 9". The thing looks SO fragile that people are afraid to pick it up. I usually set it on a table and start stacking books on it, the phone book, a dictonary, some text books, etc. The structure has supported at least five pounds without permanet deformation. If you apply force to try and slide the loaded structure across a table it will not budge. I've been wanting to scale this up into a small end table. Tensegrity furniture. Though this method works, it is time consuming and more expensive than the method we've been discussing. I am hoping other suggestions and methods may emerge from this thread. Stu Quimby adds: Kevlar thread or cord is a most excellent substitute for w= ire. >james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com > > As an aside, I love Stuart's kits, and anyone with > even half a brain should buy Stuart's kits before > trying to build models from "raw materials", just > to see how easy it can be with well-designed > components. > I like Stu's kits too. Disassembled by tensegrity icosa the other night (sob) to try doing something with 6 struts ala the me-ball, as critiqued by Snelson. But the kit isn't necessarily designed to permit 'generic' play (any legal tensegrity) -- have a hard time visualizing what such a kit would look like (what this thread is sort of about I suppose). I've also been using Roger's Connection recently to help me with tetrahelix ruminations. Kirby ----------------- Stuart Quimby, famous for making a good living doing what most of us do for fun, said: >Been following this particular thread. It has been (ahem) a rather elastic thread... >In the course of developing the Tensegritoy, I did quite a bit of >research into elastic. Ours is 40 strands of 40 durometer rubber >wound in a helical pattern and covered with a 16-weave sun resistant >fabri= c. Wow - is this the stuff they used to build the Golden Gate Bridge? Sounds like MIL-SPEC. >I'd be glad to contribute elastic to the cause of any new model building. >Contact me directly at stuq@dstoys.com and I'd be glad to pop a long >strand in an envelope. As an aside, I love Stuart's kits, and anyone with even half a brain should buy Stuart's kits before trying to build models from "raw materials", just to see how easy it can be with well-designed components. This blatant plug has nothing to do with his offer. The fact that Stuart is a nice guy is a separate issue from the quality of his wares. I have constructed a tensegrity musical instrument I call the Tensegrity Twang which uses guitar strings. The little grommet at the end of the string was just the right size for passing a bolt through for screwing into a threaded insert I embedded in the struts. I collected as many used guitar strings as possible to get a supply of grommets and then attached them to the ungrommetted end of new strings at the appropriate length. O---------------O Breakage did occur more frequently on the factory wound grommets than on the ones I wound myself. My son recently broke a string after over 3 years of unusual music making. Sounds a little like whale song. The instrument can be plucked, hammered, bowed and stretched to bend the pitch. Lots of fun :) i forget who the last entry on musical instruments was from. i think stuart quimby is the one who makes 'Tensegritoy' kits...very nice! have fun --danu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:55:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: BDC Organization: Exec-PC BBS - Milwaukee, WI Subject: Geodesic Math I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. Thanks, Brad Burnett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:36:57 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: economics of domes Roan Carratu wrote: >I remember reading several reports, with pictures, back in the earily >70's. The comunities were in California, and the helecopters were >police helecopters. It's history, not myth. The communities >experimenting with domes made out of different materials had been >constantly harrassed by the Codes people and then the police serving >court orders to destroy the 'illegal' buildings. When the communities >did nothing, the police came in and burned them. The people in the >communities documented the entire sordid tale. I'm sure I'm not the only >one who remembers this. I'll bet Stuart Brand or the people at the >Whole Earth could tell you more. > >P.S. The police were wearing black, I think. > >-Roan Indeed, this history is all worth doing some web pages about, if we can find some of the original documentation. I have room at my site for such. As to domes not meeting gov't specs, the gov't itself has been a primary consumer of domes, from the DEW line to military warehouses. Shot a pix of one such military dome in San Diego during my trip for the Bucky Centennial last year (see http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/geni2.html). Yes, lots of domes for living in were built ala the construction crafts industry that builds us the Standard Home and Garden, which is fine -- meets local codes etc. But aerospace and industrial-commercial domes that use a more factory-based model have also come into existence, e.g. Geometrica, which also builds south of the USA border quite a bit. No reason to assume that 'dome fever,' if it catches again, has to catch in the USA, where perhaps the police are programmed to crush any such deviation from the LAWCAP script. But the world's a big place and the know-how and materials for dome production are in no way monopolized by USA-based firms. I guess in this country we'll need some police stations inside of geodesic domes, to help fight the apparent prejudice of law enforcement against non-rectilinear dwelling concepts. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 00:21:11 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Roan Carratu Subject: Re: geodesic math Frank Merewether wrote: > BTW you'all > might check out strawbale (strawbale@crest.org) not so much for info as the > mindset of using biodegradable materials, low impact on the planet. That's > my beef w/ Fuller - no perspective on our place - putting people in geodesic > floating cities, because we've run amuck in reproduction & despoiled the > land by our sheer numbers & technology - and Fuller is just right along in > the technology bandwagon. Putting people in geodesic floating cities would be better than either practicing intentional or unintentional genocide to kill humanity back to a lesser, more ecologically sound population, (which is the solution proposed by the most ignorant and extreme of lay environmentalists.) and/or going back to some lesser technological level with the naove idea that lesser tech levels were better for the environment. (They were worse) Fuller never suggested putting humanity in floating cities as a result of despoiling activities or overpopulation. He was always for maintaining a healthy environment and cleaning up the existing environmental problems. Frankly, without comprehensive design and use of technology, present or future, there is no solution to pollution or population. Putting our cities in the sky and not on the land would free up a lot of land, much of it the best farming land in the world. Besides, Science is the study of Nature, and Technology is the application of Science there's no reason technology must conflict with Nature Human ignorance causes the misuse of technology, and the nasty results. > Oh he purports to use resources efficiently - but > mining is extremely destructive to societies - like native Americans & other > indigenous people that happen to live on land that techno-America "needs" to > extract the "resources" of ore etc. and the environment. If you had bothered to read Bucky's books, you would know that Bucky showed that there was far more materials already mined than what was needed, and all mining could stop if we stopped throwing away into landfills our resources, recycling all of it instead of just some of it. The same thing applied to power generation also, with an interconnected global grid supplying enough power to the people of the world that all nukes could be shut down and yet still no more power plants would be needed. Bucky proposed solar, geothermal, wind, tidal, and other such nonimpact ecologically sound technology long before almost anyone else. The ideas may not have been exclusively his, but few ideas in the world are exclusively any particular person's. We all stand on the shoulders of giants. Frankly, IMHO, Buckminster Fuller was not only a world class environmentalist, but one of the most spiritual people the world has ever seen. >yes you can build > some smaller geodesics out of lumber (tree people as some native Americans > call them), but most aren't and we're cutting trees far faster than they > grow. Seems Fullerites are into techy fix for what's a spiritual problem. Nothing in your message has any kind of benefit to this list. Every criticism seems to have it's roots in ignorance of Fuller's writings and experiments rather than in knowledge of them. There are legitimate aspects of Fuller's work which need criticism and reconsideration, like anyone's work, but you don't seem to be knowledgeable enough to touch on anything real. It is evident you are as ignorant of Bucky's work as you are of spirit. You ought to either stop whining and learn, or unsubscribe and inflict yourself on someone else. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 09:16:24 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: geodesic math bmp Hello Brad and fellow Geodesic Newsgroupees I attached the two BMP drawings to my previous E-mail using Pegasus Mail, which has a self-extracting facility. It usually warns me when incoming mail message contain attachments which it then auto-extracts as soon as I provide a destination and file name for saving. I'm not sure how else to make the two explanatory drawings available as I only have an E-mail facility. I would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused if the attachment process did not work well. Regards Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 11:54:46 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Re: How to build a model tensegrity? Comments: To: Danu Smith In-Reply-To: i believe there are question like these which are already answered, what you did, is just send an old response. such a answer need to be refined and econmised, once it is acknowldged to be the best response then could be standard response to the question. osmetime ago i red Kenner book, i find the explanation general quite freindly to the reader. i propose somthing on this line of writing. i never spent time on tensegrity, i am not focoused, though if i find an easy to digest instruction, i would do it in 20 minutes, which i am sure is the corrct time to build tens-system. i suggest who ever good at somthing, to prepare to answer some of the questions in that area, and negotiate it with some one who is good in the same area to get to final package. this could be the begining of s-y-n University. i just found that Princton University is on of the best, Einstien and quite few big heads were teaching there; was von Neumann a professor there! tag ---------------------------------------------------------- perversion recalls horror said eve to adam; but i like sex she said, the cunt is harry but that is fine. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 19:22:48 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marco Tognon Comments: To: "List.for.the.discussion.of.Buckminster.Fuller's.works,MultiplerecipientsoflistGEODESIC"@ping1.ping.be Brad Burnett wrote: >I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. >Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? >Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the >icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from >the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. > >Thanks, > >Brad Burnett Hi Brad, I asked this question several times to the readers of this group. It seems that they like to keep this info for themselfs. They usually refer to one or the other Library who san find it for you. Maybe in the States, not in Europe. It's of no use to ask for such "coyprighted" information to the group. I wonder if there is a discussion group on the practical part of geodesic domes, not on the phylosophical part. I fthere is anybody who nows of a practical group let all of us know... So, Brad, I wish you more luck then I got. Bye for now. Tognon Marco from Belgium without the book "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in no format at all ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 13:08:31 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Briden Organization: SpaceyScape Subject: Simpleton needs dome help Domes - great Geodesic - OK Cords - Hmmmm Frequency - Eh??? Numbers to 8 decimal places - What the... I've built 3 domes, all to the same simple design. One (a model) about 3 feet diameter, Two (the real thing) about 16 feet diameter, and three (much more like it) about 26 feet diameter. There, that just proves that I'm not as dim as I feel when attempting to decode dome information or software. All of the above domes, however are the type that have 65 poles (short and long) with the short poles 11 % shorter and 3 'layers' including the top. So far so good I need a bigger dome No way can I continue to enlarge the design I'm using (the poles will get too long and the triangles will be too big) So...does anyone have a way of describing more complex domes in a way that's accessible to mere mortals. Say ones with 4 or 5 layers (I really need a dome of at least 60 feet diameter) Ideally, any answer should have such things as... Number of poles, ratio of lengths of poles, construction advice. - (the domes I've built already were based on observation of others and I've instructed many people on how to construct this type of dome by basically saying - 65 poles, 35 long, 30 short, shorts are 11% shorter, easiest to explain as make a ring of 10 longs, add alternate pairs of short and long to each junction (little diagram helps here) join up the tops with 10 shorts....etc etc. This information is what I'm after for more complex (and presumeably sronger and more capable of being larger) domes. Please help. I'll be very grateful (and with a bigger dome) -- Tony tony@sentienc.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:34:17 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Thomas L Moore Organization: University of Arizona Subject: Re: geodesic math In article <3208094D.7DDC@execpc.com>, BDC wrote: >I need to ind a copy of the book "Geodesic Math an how to Use it", By >Hugh Kenner. It is not available in my area. I would be glad to purchase >a copy. Can some one help me understad the very basics of the icosa ? >I can not seem to find simple definitions of chords, etc. or the overal >approach of the math. I think it was recently posted here that it's out of print. However, if you're not already a part of a university library system, you might try and get a card. Many universities do carry the book, which you should be able to get via interlibrary loan.. Kenner's book, btw, did help me a great deal with the icosa. Unfortunately, it was a little lacking for my purposes (which are a bit unusual). But on the whole, the book's coverage is extensive. Tom -- Thomas L. Moore | mooret@aruba.ccit.arizona.edu Phanerozoic Climates Research Project | mooret@gas.uug.arizona.edu University of Arizona | mooret@ccit.arizona.edu Tucson, Arizona | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:49:44 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Casey J. Monahan" Subject: Re: geodesic math Comments: To: Roan Carratu In-Reply-To: <32097947.14C8@ix.netcom.com> Bucky also said that the conventional view of the 'problem' of overpopulation was a myth. On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Roan Carratu wrote: > Frank Merewether wrote: > > > BTW you'all > > might check out strawbale (strawbale@crest.org) not so much for info as the > > mindset of using biodegradable materials, low impact on the planet. That's > > my beef w/ Fuller - no perspective on our place - putting people in geodesic > > floating cities, because we've run amuck in reproduction & despoiled the > > land by our sheer numbers & technology - and Fuller is just right along in > > the technology bandwagon. > > Putting people in geodesic floating cities would be better than either > practicing intentional or unintentional genocide to kill humanity back > to a lesser, more ecologically sound population, (which is the solution > proposed by the most ignorant and extreme of lay environmentalists.) > and/or going back to some lesser technological level with the naove idea > that lesser tech levels were better for the environment. (They were > worse) > > Fuller never suggested putting humanity in floating cities as a result > of despoiling activities or overpopulation. He was always for > maintaining a healthy environment and cleaning up the existing > environmental problems. Frankly, without comprehensive design and use of > technology, present or future, there is no solution to pollution or > population. Putting our cities in the sky and not on the land would > free up a lot of land, much of it the best farming land in the world. > > Besides, Science is the study of Nature, and Technology is the > application of Science there's no reason technology must conflict with > Nature Human ignorance causes the misuse of technology, and the nasty > results. > > > Oh he purports to use resources efficiently - but > > mining is extremely destructive to societies - like native Americans & other > > indigenous people that happen to live on land that techno-America "needs" to > > extract the "resources" of ore etc. and the environment. > > If you had bothered to read Bucky's books, you would know that Bucky > showed that there was far more materials already mined than what was > needed, and all mining could stop if we stopped throwing away into > landfills our resources, recycling all of it instead of just some of it. > The same thing applied to power generation also, with an interconnected > global grid supplying enough power to the people of the world that all > nukes could be shut down and yet still no more power plants would be > needed. Bucky proposed solar, geothermal, wind, tidal, and other such > nonimpact ecologically sound technology long before almost anyone else. > The ideas may not have been exclusively his, but few ideas in the world > are exclusively any particular person's. We all stand on the shoulders > of giants. > > Frankly, IMHO, Buckminster Fuller was not only a world class > environmentalist, but one of the most spiritual people the world has > ever seen. > > >yes you can build > > some smaller geodesics out of lumber (tree people as some native Americans > > call them), but most aren't and we're cutting trees far faster than they > > grow. Seems Fullerites are into techy fix for what's a spiritual problem. > > Nothing in your message has any kind of benefit to this list. Every > criticism seems to have it's roots in ignorance of Fuller's writings and > experiments rather than in knowledge of them. There are legitimate > aspects of Fuller's work which need criticism and reconsideration, like > anyone's work, but you don't seem to be knowledgeable enough to touch on > anything real. > > It is evident you are as ignorant of Bucky's work as you are of spirit. > You ought to either stop whining and learn, or unsubscribe and inflict > yourself on someone else. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 11:30:31 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: larry mintz Subject: Re: syn-l: Who has used Synergia for Windows? (Op Manual for Spaceship Earth) (fwd) *********************************** Geodesic Software Presents Synergia For Microsoft Windows ********************************** Synergia is software for the mind. It was inspired by the writings of Buckminster Fuller. The idea is to create a set of software tools that assists in promoting creativity. Synergia consists of three programs and comes with a pretty manual. The programs are: 1.Operating Tools For Spaceship Earth 2.dbClient Manager 3.Database Diary How are dbClient Manager and Database Diary related to Operating Tools...? Consider Operating Tools...as the instruction manual to Database Diary and dbClient Manager. For example, when you buy a radio,or any other appliance it comes with instructions. Operating Tools... acts as the conceptual basis for the tools. It gives you an understanding of what they are there for. A description of them is as follows: Database Diary: A electronic diary in the form of database Fully push button operated Automatically stores date and time Browse/search utility dbClient Manager: Stores names,addresses phone numbers and images,notes of people you know 98% push button operated Can print out hard copy of records Does mailing labels. Visual browse box shows all records at a given time Operating Tools For Spaceship Earth Enhanced hypertext version of Operating Manual For Spaceship Earth Explanation of hard to understand terms Each chapter in its own window. Can read two or more chapters at once. Can tile or cascade two windows. Comes with a built in editor. Can call up any Windows modem software, providing you have enough memory Can call up Database Diary and dbClient Manager Requirements: 386/40 CPU or greater 10 Megs Hard Disk space 4 Megs RAM VGA color monitor 3.5 "" disk drive Cost: 50 $US normally but on special for 34.95 CDN If you wish to order send cash,cheque, or MO to: Larry Mintz c/o Geodesic Software 6625 Mackle Road #604 Cote St Luc Quebec,H4W 2Z8 Canada ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 13:19:03 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Greg Mills Subject: Life beyond the domes... Greetings -- When I was in college, a professor of mine turned me on to "I Seem To Be A Verb" as an example of non-traditional narrative. I was an English major "who put sentences together for a grade". This got me interested in BMF as an extremely original media theorist who rates up there with McLuhan in the parthenon of '60s media theory. This is my primary interest in Fuller, rather than his Dymaxion creations or his mathematical genius. My query is this: is the above title available anywhere in its original format? If you do find a copy, pick it up. The jury is still out on whether this book of startling genius or merely a quaint curio. Whatever it is, it's facsinating. Greg Mills PS -- My first (and only) run in with a dome fanatic was during second grade. One of my class mates father was an engineer for Bechtel who insisted on building and donating a geodesic dome climbing structure for the school. i seem to remember the struts being shiny tubing (aluminum). And the classmate was named...Bucky. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 05:52:09 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Casey J. Monahan" Subject: Re: your mail Comments: To: Marco Tognon In-Reply-To: <199608081722.TAA04569@ping1.ping.be> all you have to do is go to your library, request it through ILL (Inter-Library Loan, an international system of book exchange between libraries), and then once your library gets it in, check it out, go to your local photostat shop, copy your book, then return the book to the library. On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: > Brad Burnett wrote: > > >I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. > >Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? > >Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the > >icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from > >the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Brad Burnett > > Hi Brad, > > I asked this question several times to the readers of this group. > It seems that they like to keep this info for themselfs. > > They usually refer to one or the other Library who san find it for you. > Maybe in the States, not in Europe. > > It's of no use to ask for such "coyprighted" information to the group. > > I wonder if there is a discussion group on the practical part of geodesic domes, > not on the phylosophical part. I fthere is anybody who nows of a practical > group let all of us know... > > So, Brad, I wish you more luck then I got. > > Bye for now. > > Tognon Marco from Belgium > > without the book "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in no format at all > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:53:12 BST Reply-To: ashmount@ashmount.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ashmount Research Organization: Ashmount Research Ltd Subject: Threaded List Server Reader Now Available! Dear List Server Editor, We have made some enhancements to the latest version of Virtual Access so that it will work automatically with your List Server. This allows your subscribers to automatically filter and thread messages from your service. Free versions are available form our Web Site if this would be a useful tool for your members to manage your List Server service. As an Editor please feel free to e-mail me and I will ship you a full version over free of charge (electronically of course). Do you think it would be of help to post the following message to your members? I have kept this message deliberately short. Subject: Threaded List Server Reader Now Available Virtual Access for List Servers is now available. To get an evaluation copy hit www.ashmount.com and download a copy. This gives automatically filtered and threaded List Server messages. It copes with multiple list servers as well as Internet E-Mail, News Server and even CompuServe. If you aren't on the WWW and would like information sent to you please e-mail ashmount_sales@ashmount.com specifying a subject line of List Server Information Request best wishes, Edward Hasted CEO ------------------------------------------------ Ashmount Research Limited 9-10 Southampton Place London WC1A 2EA United Kingdom E-mail : ehasted@ashmount.com WWW : http://www.ashmount.com Tel : 0171-831 4000 Fax : 0171-831 4400 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:16:50 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marco Tognon Subject: Re: your mail Comments: To: "Casey J. Monahan" Wel Casey, I did this all. Sure I can get whatever book from where ever. First, I will not get an original to start with. The copy from where ever in an Unknown state, is a copy!!! Do you realy undertsand!! A copy!! I do not mention the price I have to pay. It's not only the cost of the paper, but the living person and the machine must be paid. Wat would YOU say if a normal book of 250 pages will cost you about US 350,- after waiting between 8 and 24 weeks... As I mentioned in an email, some time ago, WHAT ABOUT COPYRIGHTS? If tis may be done by a library, why not by you! So, stop talking about copyrights and all that crap (this sort of language is not my normal one, sorry) and make a copy of YOUR book at the cost of the copies made in a local shop. Of course, you work for free. Can I send my wish list? Marco At 05:52 09/08/96 -0500, Casey J. Monahan wrote: >all you have to do is go to your library, request it through ILL >(Inter-Library Loan, an international system of book exchange between >libraries), and then once your library gets it in, check it out, go to >your local photostat shop, copy your book, then return the book to the >library. > >On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: > >> Brad Burnett wrote: >> >> >I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. >> >Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? >> >Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the >> >icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from >> >the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. >> > >> >Thanks, >> > >> >Brad Burnett >> >> Hi Brad, >> >> I asked this question several times to the readers of this group. >> It seems that they like to keep this info for themselfs. >> >> They usually refer to one or the other Library who san find it for you. >> Maybe in the States, not in Europe. >> >> It's of no use to ask for such "coyprighted" information to the group. >> >> I wonder if there is a discussion group on the practical part of geodesic domes, >> not on the phylosophical part. I fthere is anybody who nows of a practical >> group let all of us know... >> >> So, Brad, I wish you more luck then I got. >> >> Bye for now. >> >> Tognon Marco from Belgium >> >> without the book "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in no format at all >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:38:45 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Alan Barrett >Brad Burnett wrote: > >>I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. >>Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? >>Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the >>icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from >>the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Brad Burnett > >Hi Brad, > >I asked this question several times to the readers of this group. >It seems that they like to keep this info for themselfs. > >They usually refer to one or the other Library who san find it for you. >Maybe in the States, not in Europe. > >It's of no use to ask for such "coyprighted" information to the group. > >I wonder if there is a discussion group on the practical part of geodesic >domes, >not on the phylosophical part. I fthere is anybody who nows of a practical >group let all of us know... > >So, Brad, I wish you more luck then I got. > >Bye for now. > >Tognon Marco from Belgium > >without the book "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in no format at all Try DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com Type subscribe in the "subject" area. I don't know if this will help or not. Al Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 17:47:50 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Casey J. Monahan" Subject: Re: your mail Comments: To: Marco Tognon In-Reply-To: <199608092016.WAA05260@ping1.ping.be> 1. I don't have a copy of the book you seek. 2. there are numerous out-of-print book search services available throughout the world; check your local yellow pages. expect to pay more than 50 dollars. 3. copying a 250 page book will take you about an hour; five cents an exposure, maybe 8. it shouldn't cost you more than 20 dollars 4. I'm not a copyright attorney, but if you make a copy of a book for non-commercial purposes, I'm not so sure it's illegal. perhaps if you tracked down the author and asked him or her for their permission first. there are reference books that list scholars/authors addresses. On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: > Wel Casey, > > I did this all. > > Sure I can get whatever book from where ever. > First, I will not get an original to start with. > The copy from where ever in an Unknown state, > is a copy!!! Do you realy undertsand!! A copy!! > I do not mention the price I have to pay. > It's not only the cost of the paper, but > the living person and the machine must be paid. > Wat would YOU say if a normal book of 250 pages > will cost you about US 350,- > after waiting between 8 and 24 weeks... > > As I mentioned in an email, some time ago, > > WHAT ABOUT COPYRIGHTS? > > If tis may be done by a library, why not by you! > > So, stop talking about copyrights and all that crap > (this sort of language is not my normal one, sorry) > and make a copy of YOUR book at the cost of the copies > made in a local shop. Of course, you work for free. > > Can I send my wish list? > > > Marco > > At 05:52 09/08/96 -0500, Casey J. Monahan wrote: > >all you have to do is go to your library, request it through ILL > >(Inter-Library Loan, an international system of book exchange between > >libraries), and then once your library gets it in, check it out, go to > >your local photostat shop, copy your book, then return the book to the > >library. > > > >On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: > > > >> Brad Burnett wrote: > >> > >> >I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. > >> >Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? > >> >Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the > >> >icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from > >> >the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. > >> > > >> >Thanks, > >> > > >> >Brad Burnett > >> > >> Hi Brad, > >> > >> I asked this question several times to the readers of this group. > >> It seems that they like to keep this info for themselfs. > >> > >> They usually refer to one or the other Library who san find it for you. > >> Maybe in the States, not in Europe. > >> > >> It's of no use to ask for such "coyprighted" information to the group. > >> > >> I wonder if there is a discussion group on the practical part of geodesic > domes, > >> not on the phylosophical part. I fthere is anybody who nows of a practical > >> group let all of us know... > >> > >> So, Brad, I wish you more luck then I got. > >> > >> Bye for now. > >> > >> Tognon Marco from Belgium > >> > >> without the book "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in no format at all > >> > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 04:43:29 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Geodesic Math BDC wrote: >I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. >Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? >Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the >icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from >the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. > >Thanks, > >Brad Burnett The dome is a fraction of a sphere. A geodesic sphere is made by centering a 20-triangle wire-frame (icosahedron) in the middle of a translucent sphere and putting a light source at the center. The projected edges of the icosa outline 20 spherical triangles. Five shadow-arcs meet at 12 vertices (joins). The number of shadow- arcs (E) equals the number of joins (12) plus the number of wire-framed windows (20) less 2: V+F-2=E (Euler). So 30 edges. The subtriangles of the geodesic dome are formed by making equally spaced tick marks along each shadow-arc, from one join to the next, and drawing arcs from each tick mark to the corresponding one on the other two edges of the triangle. This gives a 3-way grid within each of the original 20 sectors. I use such a 3-way grid as part of the header in my internet newsletter (posted above), e.g.: \ /\ /\ / \ /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ / The 4D Chronicler \ / \ / \ / \/____\/____\/ \/____\/____\/ /\ /\ /\ An Internet Newsletter /\ /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ by Kirby Urner / \ / \ / \ /____\/____\/____\__________________________________/____\/____\/____\ (this won't look right unless you have a fixed-pitch font installed for reading this post). The tick marks along each edge divide the shadow-arcs into intervals, the number of which is the 'frequency' of the sphere. A 10F geosphere has 10 intervals along each edge, like this: V---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---V The number of subtriangles formed within each of the original 20 sectors is FxF (F to the second power), so a 10F geosphere consists of 100 sub- triangles per sector, for a total of 20x100=2000 subtriangles (a lot!). You might think these triangles are all equilateral but of course they're not. Any easy way to see this is that most vertices (joins) are defined by 6 surrounding subtriangles (12 exceptions, the nodes of the original shadow-icosa). If the 6 angles between the 6 spokes radiating from each vertex where all 60 degrees, the spokes would all be perfectly flat relative to one another, i.e. we'd have no curvature, i.e. we'd have no sphere. So the number of degrees surrounding each vertex on the surface of the geosphere is just a tad less than 360. In fact, the total number of 'missing degrees' is exactly 720, distributed over however many nodes. 720 is the number of degrees in one tetrahedron, by the way. You could say that 'adding one tetrahedron' to a high frequency geosphere is to obliterate it, by taking away all its curvature. These are the basics as I see them. It's helpful to have a computer to get all the exact chord lengths for an N-Frequency geosphere (or fraction thereof). Such software is freely downloadable from my website, including source code. My website is a mirror for Rick Bono's in this respect (Rick is the author of DOME, a utility for outputting N-frequency in several formats, including DXF for CAD, VRML for rotating and zooming through on screen, and POV for feeding to POV-Ray, a ray-tracing package, also free). Einar Thorsteinn also has dome-making software, which I haven't seen, but which I expect is more geared for builders wanting to compute actual quantities of building materials etc. Notes: For more on domes (theory, history, software): http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/dome.html (I created the picture on this page using Bono's DOME, Gerald's Struck, Bono's conversion tools, and my own understanding of POV-Ray scripting). For more on dome manufacturers (many supply kits and designs): http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeman.html (include's a link to Einar's site) Hope this helps. Kirby BFI webmaster ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 04:48:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Life beyond the domes... Greg Mills wrote: >Greetings -- > >When I was in college, a professor of mine turned me on to "I Seem To Be A >Verb" as an example of non-traditional narrative. I was an English major >"who put sentences together for a grade". This got me interested in BMF as >an extremely original media theorist who rates up there with McLuhan in the >parthenon of '60s media theory. This is my primary interest in Fuller, >rather than his Dymaxion creations or his mathematical genius. > >My query is this: is the above title available anywhere in its original format? > Do you mean as a paperback, as it was marketed? I still see copies for sale in used book stores, though rarely. I have a copy in the basement I think, but it ain't for sale. I share your interest in Fuller as a 'media theorist' insofar as he took on many of our established conventions, many of which are deep seated and hard to shake. As a philosophy student, I was into Ludwig Wittgenstein. The links to film theory, semiotics, and other stuff the French are especially into are hard to miss. Perhaps Fuller is 'the Lacan of Mathematics'? Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 04:44:07 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Geodesic Math >Notes: > >For more on domes (theory, history, software): >http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/dome.html (I created the picture on >this page using Bono's DOME, Gerald's Struck, Bono's conversion tools, >and my own understanding of POV-Ray scripting). > >For more on dome manufacturers (many supply kits and designs): >http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeman.html (include's a link to Einar's >site) > >Hope this helps. > Further note (adding to my Geodesic Math 101 posting above): Richard Hawkins has produced a beautiful movie of a rotating 3F geosphere inscribed within a sphere at http://www.rt66.com/~charhawk/icogeo.htm Check it out! Kirby (on bit.listserv.geodesic) ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 02:59:47 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Roan Carratu Subject: Re: geodesic math Casey J. Monahan wrote: > > Bucky also said that the conventional view of the 'problem' of > overpopulation was a myth. > And it is. And Fuller also explained that in his books... The conventional view comes from the intense overpopulation of small areas through concentration of population for economic reasons, and the limiting of human habitation to just the surface of the planet. He pointed out that if all the people in Manhattan, New York, were suspended in the air in a one mile cube, each person could barely see the next in any direction. A Skysphere City would provide a lot more living area for each person than a city of equivalent population and diameter could on the ground. Overpopulation is not the result of coming up with an arbitrary number of people and declaring that all the people beyond that is causing unacceptable damage to the ecosystem... Overpopulation is a complex equation which must include overall density of the human population, the kind of environment in any given area, the level of technology which is in common use in the area, (Above the level of harmonic tribal technology, the lower the technology, the worse the ecological damage.), and a lot more. If one says that any human or technological impact is too much, then they deny the reality that humans are also 100% part of the environment, having evolved from it, having applied knowledge learned from it, and being totally sustained by it. We have a place in it, including the technology we learn from it, but we have to find a harmonious niche in it also, or like all species which do not adapt, we will die. And, of all people, Bucky made that the most clear to me. Peace, Roan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 23:11:30 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marco Tognon Subject: Re: your mail Comments: To: "Casey J. Monahan" Thaks for the tips. I would like to say " matter closed " but I doubt if I can. Future will show. I try to locate the book although I do not expect to find it. Owners do not like to make a copy, but they like to talk about and make references to it. Strange I would say... Thanks again Marco At 17:47 09/08/96 -0500, Casey J. Monahan wrote: >1. I don't have a copy of the book you seek. >2. there are numerous out-of-print book search services available throughout >the world; check your local yellow pages. expect to pay more than 50 dollars. >3. copying a 250 page book will take you about an hour; five cents an >exposure, maybe 8. it shouldn't cost you more than 20 dollars >4. I'm not a copyright attorney, but if you make a copy of a book for >non-commercial purposes, I'm not so sure it's illegal. perhaps if you >tracked down the author and asked him or her for their permission first. >there are reference books that list scholars/authors addresses. > >On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: > >> Wel Casey, >> >> I did this all. >> >> Sure I can get whatever book from where ever. >> First, I will not get an original to start with. >> The copy from where ever in an Unknown state, >> is a copy!!! Do you realy undertsand!! A copy!! >> I do not mention the price I have to pay. >> It's not only the cost of the paper, but >> the living person and the machine must be paid. >> Wat would YOU say if a normal book of 250 pages >> will cost you about US 350,- >> after waiting between 8 and 24 weeks... >> >> As I mentioned in an email, some time ago, >> >> WHAT ABOUT COPYRIGHTS? >> >> If tis may be done by a library, why not by you! >> >> So, stop talking about copyrights and all that crap >> (this sort of language is not my normal one, sorry) >> and make a copy of YOUR book at the cost of the copies >> made in a local shop. Of course, you work for free. >> >> Can I send my wish list? >> >> >> Marco >> >> At 05:52 09/08/96 -0500, Casey J. Monahan wrote: >> >all you have to do is go to your library, request it through ILL >> >(Inter-Library Loan, an international system of book exchange between >> >libraries), and then once your library gets it in, check it out, go to >> >your local photostat shop, copy your book, then return the book to the >> >library. >> > >> >On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: >> > >> >> Brad Burnett wrote: >> >> >> >> >I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. >> >> >Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? >> >> >Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the >> >> >icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from >> >> >the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. >> >> > >> >> >Thanks, >> >> > >> >> >Brad Burnett >> >> >> >> Hi Brad, >> >> >> >> I asked this question several times to the readers of this group. >> >> It seems that they like to keep this info for themselfs. >> >> >> >> They usually refer to one or the other Library who san find it for you. >> >> Maybe in the States, not in Europe. >> >> >> >> It's of no use to ask for such "coyprighted" information to the group. >> >> >> >> I wonder if there is a discussion group on the practical part of geodesic >> domes, >> >> not on the phylosophical part. I fthere is anybody who nows of a practical >> >> group let all of us know... >> >> >> >> So, Brad, I wish you more luck then I got. >> >> >> >> Bye for now. >> >> >> >> Tognon Marco from Belgium >> >> >> >> without the book "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in no format at all >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 19:59:15 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Who has used Synergia for Windows? (Op Manual for Spaceship Earth) Charles -- I offered to do a web-based review of Synergia complete with screen shots, in exchange for an evaluation copy, but Larry turned me down (and I've since rescinded the offer). If any of you buy the goods, I'd appreciate a web-review with candid opinions. $50 dollars goes a long way in the software world, so my expectations would be pretty high. I still think the 'see before you buy' principle is a valid one. Kirby 4D Solutions Charles Cave wrote: >I was wondering if anyone has used the "Synergia" program >for Windows which has a hypertext version of "Operating Manual >for Spaceship Earth" along with a todo list and diary program. >It sells for around $US50. > >Can anyone comment on this program? > >Thanks >Charles Cave >charles@jolt.mpx.com.au >Sydney, Australia >Creativity Web Page: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~caveman/Creative > >-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o--o-o-o-o-o- >Cost: > 50 $US normally but on special for 34.95 CDN > > If you wish to order send cash,cheque, or MO to: > > Larry Mintz > c/o Geodesic Software > 6625 Mackle Road #604 > Cote St Luc Quebec,H4W 2Z8 > Canada ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 17:34:53 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Books on Geodesic Maths; Again? Sure, why not? In article <199607201455.QAA14451@netbase.t0.or.at>, Christina Goestl writes: >>Who is the publisher of "Synergetics", name and address? >>what is the ISBN number? >>Who can of has any knowledge to reprint theis book in small volumes? >>What will be the price? >>Who is the copyright owner? >> Marco, you are aware I hope, that "Synergetics" is not out of print. Only "Synergetics II" is out of print. I'm sure you can order "Synergetics" or someone over here can order it for you. William Gunther Lauritzen 809-D East Garfield Glendale, CA 91205 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:28:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Casey J. Monahan" Subject: Re: your mail Comments: To: Marco Tognon In-Reply-To: <199608112111.XAA06528@ping1.ping.be> if you don't expect to find it, then you probably won't. what is "strange" is that you seem to expect someone to make a copy for you. the "future" is what you make of it. On Sun, 11 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: > Thaks for the tips. > > I would like to say " matter closed " but I doubt if I can. > > Future will show. > I try to locate the book although I do not expect to find it. > > Owners do not like to make a copy, but they like to talk about > and make references to it. Strange I would say... > > Thanks again > > Marco > > At 17:47 09/08/96 -0500, Casey J. Monahan wrote: > >1. I don't have a copy of the book you seek. > >2. there are numerous out-of-print book search services available throughout > >the world; check your local yellow pages. expect to pay more than 50 dollars. > >3. copying a 250 page book will take you about an hour; five cents an > >exposure, maybe 8. it shouldn't cost you more than 20 dollars > >4. I'm not a copyright attorney, but if you make a copy of a book for > >non-commercial purposes, I'm not so sure it's illegal. perhaps if you > >tracked down the author and asked him or her for their permission first. > >there are reference books that list scholars/authors addresses. > > > >On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: > > > >> Wel Casey, > >> > >> I did this all. > >> > >> Sure I can get whatever book from where ever. > >> First, I will not get an original to start with. > >> The copy from where ever in an Unknown state, > >> is a copy!!! Do you realy undertsand!! A copy!! > >> I do not mention the price I have to pay. > >> It's not only the cost of the paper, but > >> the living person and the machine must be paid. > >> Wat would YOU say if a normal book of 250 pages > >> will cost you about US 350,- > >> after waiting between 8 and 24 weeks... > >> > >> As I mentioned in an email, some time ago, > >> > >> WHAT ABOUT COPYRIGHTS? > >> > >> If tis may be done by a library, why not by you! > >> > >> So, stop talking about copyrights and all that crap > >> (this sort of language is not my normal one, sorry) > >> and make a copy of YOUR book at the cost of the copies > >> made in a local shop. Of course, you work for free. > >> > >> Can I send my wish list? > >> > >> > >> Marco > >> > >> At 05:52 09/08/96 -0500, Casey J. Monahan wrote: > >> >all you have to do is go to your library, request it through ILL > >> >(Inter-Library Loan, an international system of book exchange between > >> >libraries), and then once your library gets it in, check it out, go to > >> >your local photostat shop, copy your book, then return the book to the > >> >library. > >> > > >> >On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Marco Tognon wrote: > >> > > >> >> Brad Burnett wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >I need to get a copy of "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in any format. > >> >> >Could someone please Email me with a idea other than the library? > >> >> >Otherwise, could someone post the very basics? I want to understand the > >> >> >icasa but I can't get a definition of a chord. I really need help from > >> >> >the ground up. All I konw is that it has a frequency of one. > >> >> > > >> >> >Thanks, > >> >> > > >> >> >Brad Burnett > >> >> > >> >> Hi Brad, > >> >> > >> >> I asked this question several times to the readers of this group. > >> >> It seems that they like to keep this info for themselfs. > >> >> > >> >> They usually refer to one or the other Library who san find it for you. > >> >> Maybe in the States, not in Europe. > >> >> > >> >> It's of no use to ask for such "coyprighted" information to the group. > >> >> > >> >> I wonder if there is a discussion group on the practical part of geodesic > >> domes, > >> >> not on the phylosophical part. I fthere is anybody who nows of a practical > >> >> group let all of us know... > >> >> > >> >> So, Brad, I wish you more luck then I got. > >> >> > >> >> Bye for now. > >> >> > >> >> Tognon Marco from Belgium > >> >> > >> >> without the book "Geodedic Math and How to Use It" in no format at all > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:21:56 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marco Tognon Subject: Re: Books on Geodesic Maths; Again? Sure, why not? At 17:34 11/08/96 -0400, WLauritzen wrote: Helo William, Thank you, I'm searching to find it. (reply on the reply of someone else, This book I will find...) Thanks again Marco > >Marco, you are aware I hope, that "Synergetics" is not out of print. Only >"Synergetics II" is out of print. >I'm sure you can order "Synergetics" or someone over here can order it for >you. > > >William Gunther Lauritzen >809-D East Garfield >Glendale, CA 91205 > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:36:35 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Geodesic Math - Clinton's Study If you want to understand the fundamentals of geodesic subdivision, an expose of the basics is found in Joe Clinton's study done for NASA dated 1971. Advanced Structural Geometry Studies - Joseph D. Clinton Part I - NASA Report # CR-1734 Polyhedric Subdivision Concepts for Structural Applications Part II - NASA Report # CR-1735 A Geometric Transformation Concept for Expanding Rigid Structures Chord factors are not there however, as they are in Kenner's book. I obtained my copy from NTIS quite a few years ago and I suspect it should still be available there. See: National Technical Information Service Technology Administration U.S. Department of Commerce Springfield, VA 22161 Telephone Orders The NTIS Sales Desk is available between 8:30 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., Eastern time, Monday through Friday. Sales Desk: (703) 487-4650 Subscriptions: (703) 487-4630 TDD (hearing impaired only): (703) 487-4639 RUSH Service (available for an additional fee): 1-800-553-NTIS Note: Please do not mail RUSH orders. Mail Orders Send orders to: NTIS, 5285 Port Royal Road, Springfield, VA 22161 Fax Orders (703) 321-8547 Fax service is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. To verify receipt of your fax, call (703) 487-4679, 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Eastern time, Monday through Friday. E-mail Orders orders@ntis.fedworld.gov. Order through the Internet 24 hours a day. If you are concerned about Internet security, you may register your credit card at NTIS to avoid sending your account number with each Internet order. Simply call (703)487-4682, leave your card number and expiration date, and we will automatically charge your card when your E-mail order is processed. ____________________________________________________________________ Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. Internet: Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 23:12:51 -0400 Reply-To: Lucky1138 Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lucky1138 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Plydomes Fuller built several structures in 1957 out of plywood without an internal framework. They were called plydomes. The connecting points of the geodesic framework were marked on the sheets and then they were assembled into domes with the plywood serving as the structure and covering simultaneously. Several pictures of these domes appear in the book The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller. I would like to build ply dome, but I don't know how to calulate the connecting points and transfer them onto the plywood sheets. Does anyone know how to do this or know of any plans for plydomes? (You can email me directly at lucky1138@aol.com) Thanks for your help. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:13:28 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: ReadMe@README.NET Organization: Netcom Subject: Make Your Computer Work For you Hello Friends! Welcome to the world of Multi-Level Marketing (MLM). THIS IS NOT A SCAM, it is an actual business opportunity. After spending hundreds of dollars on get rich quick schemes and classified advertisements selling my product, I realized that the ads were not paying off. That was before I came across this amazing opportunity. I chose this MLM plan because of the large diversity of products that can be offered, plus the fact that it is inexpensive when compared to other plans. What makes this plan legal, unlike many of the pyramid schemes that are online, is that you are buying and selling an actual product, and so is everybody else that decides to make money with this opportunity. It is simple, you sell an original recipe, craft, poem, plan, or idea through the mail for $2.00 (US Currency). It is easy with Multi-Level Marketing. MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) IS BEING TAUGHT IN HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL, AND BOTH STANFORD RESEARCH AND THE WALL STREET JOURNAL HAVE STATED THAT BETWEEN 50% AND 55% OF ALL GOODS AND SERVICES WILL BE SOLD BY MULTI-LEVEL METHODS IN THE MID 1990 S! This is truly a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY! Of the 500,000 millionaires in the United States, 20% have made their fortune in the last seven years using MLM. Even if you just try this out of curiosity, be prepared for a flood of orders. **IMPORTANT TAX INFORMATION: To ensure that you keep this legal and honest, be certain to file a Schedule "C" Profit or Loss from business or profession with your income tax return. Report all income you receive and deduct all of your expenses that are related to this business. Check with Your tax preparer to ensure that you are taking all the legal deductions you can. Because you are buying and selling a product or service, this type of direct marketing order is not in the chain letter category. If no product or service is sold, then it does become a chain letter, which would be in violation of the law. Here is what to do: 1) Send $2.00 (US) and a Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope (SASE) to each of the nine people on the list below (this is the important part, if no one sends the money for the products, then this plan will not work... KEEP IT HONEST.) Note: Be sure to either put the two dollars in the SASE or wrap it separately in another sheet of paper, because if it can be seen when the envelope is sealed, a postal worker may steal it. 2) Revise the list by placing your name in slot #9 and moving all the others on the list up one number (move #2 to #1, and so on) drop the current #1 from the list. 3)Send the revised list and message out to as many people as possible, newsgroups, e-mail, even send it snail mail to friends. Try to send at least 100. 4)Soon you will start receiving orders. Simply stuff the SASEs with you recipe(or whatever) and drop them in the mail box. 5)Spend your the money that you received from each envelope on whatever you want. Pay off bills (wouldn t it be nice to get out of debt?), buy new toys (a car maybe?), just have fun! REMEMBER, THE PRIME FACTORS THAT MAKE THIS WORK FOR YOU ARE: 1) HONESTY - Sending the $2.00 (US) to the members listed below for their products or recipes is what makes this work, they have worked hard for this opportunity. 2) INTEGRITY - Fill all of your orders promptly, because this is a legitimate business, and if you don t, you can get nailed for false advertising. You must deliver what your customers have paid for. 3) ACTION - Begin right away so that you can start receiving the money you deserve immediately! START TODAY!!!!! If you only send out 100 of the new messages, and only get a tiny 4% response rate, then here is what will happen: 1) You send out 100 letters with your name in position 9 2) Those 4 send out 100 letters with your name in position 8 16 Replies 3) Those 16 send out 100 letters with your name in position 7 64 Replies 4) Those 64 send out 100 letters with your name in position 6 256 Replies 5) Those 256 send out 100 letters with your name in position 5 1,024 Replies 6) Those 1,024 send out 100 letters with your name in position 4 4,096 Replies 7) Those 4,096 send out 100 letters with your name in position 3 16,384 Replies 8) Those 16,384 send out 100 letters with your name in position 2 65,536 Replies 9) Those 65,536 send out 100 letters with your name in position 1 262,144 Replies TOTAL REPLIES 349,524 TOTAL SALES @ $2.00 EACH $699,048 OK HERE IS THE LIST: 1) HCG P.O. Box 163 Oakdale, NY 11769 Lox Cream Cheese 2) Amazon Discovery 3171 East 33rd SO Bldg. 188 Salt Lake City, UT 84109 3) Armondo s 2821 East 3100 South Salt Lake City, UT 84109 Anchovy-Garlic Lovers Dip 4) ML Ulrich 64 Rainier Ave. S. #D BOX 31 Renton, WA 98055 Bush Baby Salad 5) Schroeder 2112 E. Breckenridge PL. Springfield, MO 65804 Tangy Buffalo Wings 6) C.L.S Publications 3020 S. National #151 Springfield, MO 65804 Fat Free French Fries 7) J. McCormick P.O. Box 274 Gradyville, PA 19039 Awesome Sangria 8) Michaels Publications 10512 Rustic Rd. So. Seattle, WA. 98178 Smoked Salmon Quiche 9) J. Daniels 10108 Fairview Blvd. SW Port Orchard,. WA 98367 Baba Gannoj Dip **IMPORTANT TAX INFORMATION: To ensure that you keep this legal and honest, be certain to file a Schedule "C" Profit or Loss from business or profession with your income tax return. Report all income you receive and deduct all of your expenses that are related to this business. Check with Your tax preparer to ensure that you are taking all the legal deductions you can. Because you are buying and selling a product or service, this type of direct marketing order is not in the chain letter category. If no product or service is sold, then it does become a chain letter, which would be in violation of the law. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:01:56 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: FREE registration in over 400 indexes! (fwd) baffa@ix.netcom.com writes: > From thehost.com!ix.netcom.com!baffa Sun Aug 11 11:31:48 1996 > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > From: baffa@ix.netcom.com > Subject: FREE registration in over 400 indexes! > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 96 18:35:51 -0700 > Message-Id: <11310132207422@thehost.com> > > Hi, I saw your site at http://radon.gas.uug.arizona.edu/~shunter/bfvi.html, > it looks good. Register it FOR FREE in over 400 Internet > indexes and directories at http://www.CentralRegistry.com/ > I used it for my site and it worked great, traffic soared! > > > Mike Baffa > Baffa@ix.netcom.com > > > > .- > -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:52:01 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: WLauritzen Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Pilloe Domes and Tefzel I inquired at Dupont about Tefzel and received this message. If anyone contacts them re prices etc., please post info here. Thanks. Subj: wlau TEFZEL(R) Date: 96-07-17 13:44:35 EDT From: harrisak@a1.csag1.umc.dupont.com (ANNE K HARRIS) Sender: harrisak@a1.csag1.umc.dupont.com X-To: wlauritzen@aol.com [This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII] Thank you for your recent inquiry. For more information regarding TEFZEL(R) resins, you may contact that group directly as follows: Fluoroproducts Concord Plaza/206 Weldin 3411 Silverside Rd Wilmington, DE 19810 Phone: 302-479-7731 Fax: 302-479-7618 Thank you for your interest in DuPont. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. Anne Harris DuPont Customer Information Center William Gunther Lauritzen 809-D East Garfield Glendale, CA 91205 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:35:40 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Johnson Subject: Re: Dome Hob Connectors This is my first time posting in this format so I hope it gets to the right place. What I would like to find is the CONNECTOR for a basic dome that would accept metal tubing like electrical conduit. I've made a 8'x10' log play house for our kids and would like to build a light dome around it as a roof. It would only be partially covered. Would like to use the same concept as a stand alone carport to provide shade. (I've got plenty of room.) What I mean is the tubular frame would have plexiglass or somethingon the top but sides would be open. Or i might cover the NW side some for winter storm protection. I don't know much about domes but am ready to learn. Reading Fullers "Synergetics. The idea I have is this is a partial cover or shield. It doesn't have to be 100% dry. My main concern is the hub connectors. Any suggestions.? Thanks Steven Johnson By the way I got a kick out of James Fischers remarks exerpted below. A true comediome! > Quick - how thick is the cut made by your sawblade? Don't know? Learn! > >My sub questions are:<< > Questions about subs should be directed to the > US Navy :) > >>did the domes fulfill their promises.<< >Promises were made FOR domes, not BY domes. An important distinction. > >(A word to pastors - do NOT let your church members use paint thinner when >painting the church, or they will be forced to "Repaint, And Thin No More"!) > > Wanna build a dome? Start small - build a trellis for > your morning glories. Don't have any? Plant some. > > Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, > I fear no evil - I live on the mountain that makes the shadow. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:05:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: FWD: [ashmount@ashmount.com: Threaded List Server Reader Now Available!] Comments: To: fnord-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu, xtropy-l@bootstrap.sculptors.com I got this message and thought I'd pass it on. Seems like the guy's trying to follow proper channels and not just spam everyone. Lord knows these lists get loads of traffic. :-) Might be a useful tool... Pat List Owner, FNORD-L, GEODESIC, XTROPY-L _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Subject: Threaded List Server Reader Now Available Virtual Access for List Servers is now available. To get an evaluation copy hit www.ashmount.com and download a copy. This gives automatically filtered and threaded List Server messages. It copes with multiple list servers as well as Internet E-Mail, News Server and even CompuServe. If you aren't on the WWW and would like information sent to you please e-mail ashmount_sales@ashmount.com specifying a subject line of List Server Information Request best wishes, Edward Hasted CEO ------------------------------------------------ Ashmount Research Limited 9-10 Southampton Place London WC1A 2EA United Kingdom E-mail : ehasted@ashmount.com WWW : http://www.ashmount.com Tel : 0171-831 4000 Fax : 0171-831 4400 ------- End of forwarded message ------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:42:57 +1000 Reply-To: practopi@future.com.au Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dean Ervik Organization: Future Reality Suite 12/67-69 Alexander St. Crows Nest, NSW 2065, Sydney,Australia. Subject: subscribing? Dear Bucky People, How do I subscribe to this listserver? I love Geodesic Domes, and am planning on building one fairly soon. Also I'd like to find a program for a P-Mac, PC or SGI that makes true Geodesic 3D models/spheres, so I can experiment with designs and walk through them on my SGI or Mac (vrml would be fun too of course, but I'm seriously into Geodesic dwellings). please assist, Dean Ervik Sydney Australia. mailto:practopi@future.com.au http://www.future.com.au/dean ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:33:37 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Steven Johnson wrote: > > The idea I have is this is a partial cover or shield. It doesn't have to be 100% dry. > My main concern is the hub connectors. Any suggestions.? I've built a few structures of this type using aluminium tubing, with a covering consisted of a shade net lining suspended from the inside of the dome frame. The connection method employed for the struts was also very simple and comprised of heating (butane flame) and squashing the tube ends flat in a bench vice. I had a little steel plate jig made at an engineering shop which fitted the vice jaws and eventually a small hand operated hydraulic press. This flattened the struts with a neat curved profile at the transition from tube to flat section, punched a bolt hole near the end of the flat section and also shamferred the corners, all in one step. (My first proto-type was done without the jig, also worked fine but just looked a little cruder). The dome is built by threading the required number of struts on to a bolt long enough for the purpose, with a washer (under the bolt head) and lock washer (under the nut) of the strut-end "sandwich". The maximum number of flattened strut-ends which need to be connected together are 6, and the bolt should be long enough to accommodate this build up. The only thing to watch out for is to squash a long enough portion at the two strut ends, to avoid having interference between the tube sections of the struts, when the maximum number of struts (i.e.6) are bolted together. The dihedral angles at the strut ends are not important, this is angled as required during assembly of the dome. (May be difficult for very large domes where heavy gauge tubing is used, but quite suitable for the car-port kind of structure in mind). The reason for suspending the shade netting on the inside of the dome is that the shiny aluminium tubing and the triangular geodesic patterns of the structure is simply too beautiful to hide under netting and also prevents wind chafing of the netting against the struts. The dome is set on 5 riser posts and becomes a fantastic gazebo in sunny climates. (Pictures available, but I have not had much luck with people being able to extract my E-mail attachments in the past). Steven, I hope this helps. Regards Dawie Venter (Cape Town, S.Africa) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:30:46 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rob Lusher Subject: Qualities of Geodesic Domes Is there anyone who may have either personal experience of, or research on, the possible healing qualities of Geodesic Domes, or their use for sound therapy or as sound studios. If your answer is considered perhaps too esoteric then please reply by personal email rather than via this group. Many thanks. Rob Lusher The Dome Company 47 Edward St. Sylvania Heights Sydney, NSW 2224 Australia Phone/Fax: (02) 95226283 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:03:47 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brent Hall <75512.1013@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Date: 15-Aug-96 at 08:00 From: "Venter, Dawie", INTERNET:DAWIE@I1.IPLAN.CO.ZA TO: Multiple recipients of list GEODESIC,INTERNET:GEODESIC@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (Pictures available, but I have not had much luck with people being able to extract my E-mail attachments in the past). Dawie, I have no problem with your e-mailed picts and would like to see your tubing dome. If you don't want to send it to the list, send it directly to me! Thanks, Brent 75512.1013@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:56:06 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Danu Smith Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors At 5:33 AM 8/15/96, Venter, Dawie wrote: >I've built a few structures of this type using aluminium tubing, >with a covering consisted of a shade net lining suspended from the >inside of the dome frame. The connection method employed for the >struts was also very simple and comprised of heating (butane flame) >and squashing the tube ends flat in a bench vice. I had a little >steel plate jig made at an engineering shop which fitted the vice >jaws and eventually a small hand operated hydraulic press. This >flattened the struts with a neat curved profile at the transition from >tube to flat section, punched a bolt hole near the end of the flat >section and also shamferred the corners, all in one step. (My first >proto-type was done without the jig, also worked fine but just looked >a little cruder). > The dome is >set on 5 riser posts and becomes a fantastic gazebo in sunny >climates. (Pictures available, but I have not had much luck with >people being able to extract my E-mail attachments in the past). > nice description dawie. i made one like this but didn't get as far as you with the jig and hand press. i'd like an email pict of your dome, and a close-up of the jig and sculptured ends, if possible. nice work! --danu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:35:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Fleming Organization: A News Reader at ATMNet Subject: Re: Dome Hob Connectors Steve, If you find an answer to you hub question, please let me know. I am looking for the same thing. Eric efleming@slctnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 23:07:24 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Johnson Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Venter, Dawie wrote: > The dome is set on 5 riser posts and becomes a fantastic gazebo in sunny > climates. (Pictures available, but I have not had much luck with > people being able to extract my E-mail attachments in the past). > > Steven, I hope this helps. > Regards > Dawie Venter (Cape Town, S.Africa) Yes the gazebo thing is the basic concept I'm after but I'm picturing a modular connector separate from the tubing itself, which would make assembly quicker and stronger, steel or some such with built in connectors similar to electrical conduit compression connectors. Very solid, positive engineering and machining. Various sizes could cover two pipe diameters each with a threaded reducing bushing. So 3 basic hubs could cover six conduit sizes. Of course I'd like this in stainless steel which would be reasonably priced with a production order of 1 to 3 million hubs. Meanwhile, back at the ranch still gotta put a roof over the 8 x 10 cedar log playhouse. Your jig sounds like a good solution. << This flattened the struts with a neat curved profile at the transition from tube to flat section, punched a bolt hole near the end of the flat section and also shamferred the corners, all in one step.>> I would love to see pictures of your gazebo/ carport type dome. Thanks for response, Steven ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 07:11:52 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Fwd: Help me spread Peace around the planet (fwd) ll writes: > From nic.cerf.net!cerf.net!geni Wed Aug 14 17:45:11 1996 > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:46:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: ll > Message-Id: <199608150046.RAA06915@nic.cerf.net> > Subject: Fwd: Help me spread Peace around the planet > To: "Michael Powers" , Joe Moore , > Pat Chipman , > World Game - Medard Gabel , > Zeke Rabkin > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > From nic.cerf.net > Received: from mail6.netcom.com (mail6.netcom.com [192.100.81.142]) by > nic.cerf.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA07717 for ; > Sun, 11 Aug 1996 18:10:10 -0700 (PDT) > Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) > id IAA00824; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 08:41:55 -0700 > Received: from nm-us-01.campus.mci.net (nm-us-01.campus.mci.net > [204.71.75.186]) by mail6 (8.6.13/Netcom) > id IAA00794; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 08:41:50 -0700 > Received: from paksf.nm-us.campus.mci.net > (s09-pm02.nm-us.campus.mci.net [206.25.42.68]) by > nm-us-01.campus.mci.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25955; Sun, 11 > Aug 1996 09:34:07 -0600 (MDT) > Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960811153558.00f8aaec@nm-us.campus.mci.net> > X-Sender: paksf@nm-us.campus.mci.net > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 09:35:58 -0600 > To: Hot Stuff for friends > From: "Philip A. Kratzer" > Subject: Help me spread Peace around the planet > Sender: owner-wholesys-l@netcom.com > Precedence: list > > Encircle the glode, help touch a million people with a Dream. If you > are > interested in helping this Dream become reality make contact with > Barbara > whose address is at the end of this message. > > Please email the Peace 2000 poem to 2 or more people and ask them to > do the > same. > > warmly, > > Phil > > Phil@NewAgeMall.com - www.newagemall.com > ----------------------------------- > > My Dream 2000 > by Robert Muller > > I Dream... > That on 1 January 2000 > The whole world will stand still > In prayer, awe and gratitude > For our beautiful, heavenly Earth > And for the miracle of human life. > > I Dream... > That young and old, rich and poor, > Black and white, > Peoples from North and South, > From all beliefs and cultures > Will join hands, minds and hearts > In an unprecendented, universal > Bimillennium Celebration of Life. > > I Dream... > That the year 2000 > Will be declared World Year of Thanksgiving > By the the United Nations. > > I Dream... > That during the year 2000 > Innumerable celebrations and events > Will take place all over the globe > To gauge the long hard road covered by humanity > To study our mistakes > And to plan the feats > Still to be accomplished > For the full flowering of the human race > In peace, justice and happiness. > > I Dream... > That the few remaining years > To the Bimillennium > Be devoted by all humans, nations and institutions > To unparalleled thinking, action, > Inspiration, elevation, > Determination and love > To solve our remaining problems > And to achieve > A peaceful, united human family on Earth. > > I Dream... > That the third millennium > Will be declared > And made > Humanity's First Millennium of Peace. > > This poem is also available in Japanese, Dutch, Spanish, Portugese > and > German. > For copies email: Barbara@rain.org or send for a copy to: > Gaughen Global Public Relations > 7456 Evergreen Drive > Santa Barbara, CA 93117 > > > > > > *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > *^* > Philip Allen Kratzer > Internet Marketing Partners, > Inc. > 2442 Cerrillos Road, Suite 455 > Phil@NetBiz.com Santa Fe, NM 87505 > www.netbiz.com 505.424.6220 * 505.424.6220 > fax > > > > > > > GLOBAL ENERGY NETWORK INTERNATIONAL > Peter Meisen > P.O.Box 81565 > San Diego, CA 92138 > > (619) 595-0139 > FAX: (619) 595-0403 > > Visit the GENI World Wide Web Home Page: http://www.geni.org/ > Email: Internet: geni@cerf.net > Compuserve: 75543.520@compuserve.com > > GENI is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation conducting education and > research into the interconnection of renewable energy resources around > the world. This was proposed as the highest priority objective from > the World Game of 20th century visionary, Dr. R Buckminster Fuller. > > .- > -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 07:47:16 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: syn-l: Re: plydomes Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: <199608151609.SAA21940@magigimmix.xs4all.nl>; from "Gerald A. de Jong" at Aug 15, 96 6:09 pm Gerald A. de Jong writes: > > help this man (lucky1138@aol.com): > > >Fuller built several structures in 1957 out of plywood without an internal > >framework. They were called plydomes. The connecting points of the geodesic > >framework were marked on the sheets and then they were assembled into domes > >with the plywood serving as the structure and covering simultaneously. > >Several pictures of these domes appear in the book The Dymaxion World of > >Buckminster Fuller. I would like to build a plydome, but I don't know how to > >calulate the connecting points and transfer them onto the plywood sheets. > >Does anyone know how to do this or know of any plans for plydomes? (You can > >email me directly at lucky1138@aol.com) Thanks for your help. > >Dwight > > --- > Gerald de Jong, gdj@xs4all.nl, http://www.xs4all.nl/~gdj > sailing the informocean... on a warm curiosity breeze _Inventions_, pages 157-61 USA patent #2,905,113 _Geodesics_, figures 43-6 _Domebook 1_, page 27 -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 08:12:06 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Basic Bucky article (fwd) Alan Ferguson writes: > From upsmot02.msn.com!msn.com!asf1 Sat Aug 17 21:31:28 1996 > Date: Sun, 18 Aug 96 14:27:23 UT > From: Alan Ferguson > Message-Id: > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Basic Bucky article > > Hola Joe! I just read your article in Dome magazine and I have to say > "Wow!!!" I have been studying synergetics and Fuller's work for the last > couple of years kind of as a hobby, and I have to say your article provides a > foundation overview that is invaluable. Any chance of getting an electronic > version e-mailed to me? Do you mind if I make copies? The content and your > knowledge of Fuller's work is amazing. Seems like it would be a beneficial > post to the geodesic listserv!? Anyway if I am out of line asking for a free > copy just let me know, If you are selling hardcopies I would be interested > also. > Sincerely, Alan Ferguson > .- > -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 08:16:51 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: syn-l: 9F Geo (fwd) Comments: To: DOME HOME LIST richard hawkins writes: > From greta.teleport.com!teleport.com!owner-synergetics-l Sat Aug 17 21:58:18 1996 > Message-Id: <32164EC5.6A22@nets.com> > Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 23:00:18 +0000 > From: richard hawkins > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6a (Macintosh; I; PPC) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Subject: syn-l: 9F Geo > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: owner-synergetics-l@teleport.com > Reply-To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Precedence: bulk > > I spent quite a few hours modeling this 9F geodesic sphere and made the > struts rectilinear so I can convert to VRML with a minimum number of > polygons. I hope to post a VRML model soon. > > http://www.rt66.com/~charhawk/9Fsunrise.JPEG > > Richard Hawkins > http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/ > .- > -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 19:29:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chita Organization: IDT Corporation Subject: Re: Plydomes If you'll do a few cardboard "rehearsals" of using 4x8 plywood sheets to construct a dome, I think you might think twice: it's about the most labor intensive, materials-wasting construction methods around. There's enough scrap left over to house a small banana republic... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:46:04 -0400 Reply-To: Eduardo Minholo Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eduardo Minholo Organization: HORIZONTES BBS - BRASIL Subject: teste listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------ FULL INTERNET SUPPORT +55 (0)31 286-2000 - BELO HORIZONTE - BRAZIL Horizontes BBS - Belo Horizonte, MG - postmaster@horizontes.com.br ------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:01:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Fleming Organization: A News Reader at ATMNet Subject: Dome Hub Connectors I am still looking for a source to purchase machined metal hubs. The hubs will allow pannels to be inserted into each of the triangles. The solution utilizing tubing with compressed ends bolted together will not allow this to happen. Has anyone heard of such a source? Eric efleming@slctnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:22:53 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Blaine DAmico Subject: Applause for Fuller on Spaceship Earth Comments: cc: Ed Applewhite , afs@aol.com In-Reply-To: <9608180816.aa15782@cruzio.com> The National Gallery of Art in Washington DC, showed the film "Buckminster Fuller on Spaceship Earth" by Robert Snyder for several days last week. I saw it twice. The film is, of course, a quality documentary of Fuller and his life. It was a pleasure to see it on the big screen. I was very struck by the audience reaction to the movie. On Saturday there were over 200 people in the theatre. As people drifted in from the museum the noise level would rise. After a few seconds, someone in the audience (never me, since I was observing the phenomenon) would loudly shush the offending parties. THESE PEOPLE WERE HERE TO LISTEN TO BUCKY EXPOUND ON UNIVERSE AND NO-ONE WAS GOING TO KEEP THEM FROM HEARING EVERY WORD. Even more satisfying was the applause which broke out at the end of the movie. I didn't start it but I heartily joined in. It's a great piece of work Mr. Snyder and 25 years later the film and the message it relates are still finding a willing even enthusiastic audience. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:41:15 +0200 Reply-To: tomik@novell.arch.pwr.wroc.pl Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Piotr Tomaszewski Organization: Wydzial Architektury Politechniki Wroclawskiej Subject: HP Be my guest at my HP. rysiek.t19.ds.pwr.wroc.pl There's a new (I hope) geodesic spherical mesh generation method described, if you're interested. The text will be improved greatly in few days - but I could'n help the pleasure to show it ASAP. Comments welcome. Greetings, Piotr. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:46:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Oregon Dome, Inc" Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Are you looking to use a hub and strut system or are you looking for a panelized system? If you are looking for a panel system, you do not need a hub, you can connect the panels directly to other panels. A hub only adds sheathing, roofing and drywalling headaches (depending on the application). It is important to remember that the strength of the dome is not in the hubs but in the triangles and the shape of the dome. At 11:01 AM 8/19/96 -0700, you wrote: >I am still looking for a source to purchase machined metal hubs. The >hubs will allow pannels to be inserted into each of the triangles. The >solution utilizing tubing with compressed ends bolted together will not >allow this to happen. Has anyone heard of such a source? > >Eric >efleming@slctnet.com > > Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:07:51 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Roan Carratu Subject: Re: Plydomes Chita wrote: > > If you'll do a few cardboard "rehearsals" of using 4x8 plywood sheets > to construct a dome, I think you might think twice: it's about the most > labor intensive, materials-wasting construction methods around. There's > enough scrap left over to house a small banana republic... On the other hand, there is a way to do it where there is no waste at all. Experiment with cardboard to figure it out, but be aware there is a way to do it. With the right material, flexable enough to be stressed into shape but rigid enough to hold itself up once stressed without a frame, a plywood dome is practical and useful. I built my model using playing cards, which have exactly the right flexability vs rigidity, but finding larger thicker sheets with the same ratio of flex to rigid was beyond my economics at the time. More so now. Some kind of plasticised waterproof cardboard may be exactly the right material, maybe. Plexaglass might be a good material if you use a bunch of reinforcing connections where the sheets overlap. The stressed overlap becomes the frame of the dome, kindof, and the end result is a dome made of just two materials, rectangular sheets and bolts with washers. Use very large washers on either side of the joined sheets to help spread the stress at the points of connection, but while I tried to use 3 at each overlap, I think six at each overlap is the actual minimum. A waterproof adhesive would be useful also, I think, if you want a waterproof dome. You may have to come up with a way to stress each 5 sheet section into the right shape, because it takes considerable force to get the last bolts in. My sheets were of the wrong material and the material either broke or tore at the boltholes. It will take some experiment, but it is possible, and there will be no waste at all in the final dome itself. Peace, Roan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:50:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Fleming Organization: A News Reader at ATMNet Subject: Dome Hub Connectors I am looking for a source to purchase metal hubs so that I may build a metal tube geodesic dome. I plan on inserting screen panels to ultimately have a screen dome. The dome would be a 20' dome on 3' risers. Eric efleming@slctnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:59:12 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brent Hall <75512.1013@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Source for Books! I found this add in the classifieds on Compuserve and thought it might be useful to members of this list. "With our 2,000,000 book online database, Aaron's Free Int'l Booksearch specializes in locating hard to find books. Simply send the title and/or author via e-mail or c/o Bookworm's Buffet 106 S. Main St. Columbiana OH 44408 or call TOLL FREE 1-800-428-0087 or fax 1-330-482-0559. After locating the book we will quote you price and condition. There is no service fee, no obligation to buy and books are returnable if not as described. From: Jan H. McPeek 76433.710@compuserve.com" Hope this helps those looking for books!! Brent ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:17:28 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marco Tognon Subject: Re: Source for Books! Helo Brent, I looked through various secondhand bookshops and found a few books. This one I didn't know of. I'll try it out later tonight. Thanks for the tip. Marco, from Belgium At 09:59 21/08/96 EDT, Brent Hall wrote: > I found this add in the classifieds on Compuserve and thought it might be >useful to members of this list. > "With our 2,000,000 book online database, Aaron's Free Int'l Booksearch >specializes in locating hard to find books. Simply send the title and/or author >via e-mail or c/o Bookworm's Buffet 106 S. Main St. Columbiana OH 44408 or >call TOLL FREE 1-800-428-0087 or fax 1-330-482-0559. After locating the book we >will quote you price and condition. There is no service fee, no obligation to >buy and books are returnable if not as described. >From: Jan H. McPeek 76433.710@compuserve.com" > > Hope this helps those looking for books!! >Brent > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:17:16 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Plydomes In-Reply-To: <321A2927.42E7@ix.netcom.com>; from "Roan Carratu" at Aug 20, 96 4:07 pm I one made models of plydomes out of index cards; they come in several sizes and colors. Also, posterboard cut to whatever size you want (using the 8 x 4 ratio) should work. -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:25:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Plydomes/waste Chita wrote: >> If you'll do a few cardboard "rehearsals" of using 4x8 plywood >> sheets to construct a dome, I think you might think twice: it's >> about the most labor intensive, materials-wasting construction >> methods around. There's enough scrap left over to house a small >> banana republic... ...and Roan replied: >On the other hand, there is a way to do it where there is no waste >at all. Experiment with cardboard to figure it out, but be aware >there is a way to do it. "Waste" is an important issue in geodesic structures. Roan, if you can work out any numbers for any ratio (such as a 4x8-foot sheet of plywood), I would love to see them. Few have messed with plydomes, and you well may have come up with something that will allow us to coin the term "Roan-Dome". I like the name! Many folks make the flat statement that a geodesic structure encloses the most space (by volume) with the least materials. This is true, but there is "waste", since materials are not available in the exact lengths/widths needed to build such a geodesic structure. In the case of the plydome, it may well be possible to build one without cutting, but does this mean that there is no waste? It does not follow that all dome sizes could be built without waste, unless Roan has come up with something very unusual. Think about it: 1) Assume that you can build a plydome that is 30 feet in diameter with "no waste". This means that you did not have to cut any plywood, saving labor. 2) If you try the same trick with a 28 foot dome (all other things being equal), it would seem that you make a 28-foot dome by letting each overlap area get a little wider. 3) Therefore, the 28-foot dome took just as much materials as a 30-foot dome, and you should have built a 30-foot dome INSTEAD of a 28-footer. 4) Therefore, for any "standard-issue" material size, there is an optimum dome size that maximizes the use of THAT material. 5) In the specific case of the plydome, the 28-footer had "waste", in that you could have gotten a 30-footer with no extra labor or materials. Now, few people start with a 4x8 sheet of plywood (Oriented Strand Board, or "OSB" is a much better form of "plywood" than plywood itself, by the way.) and work backwards from there, but this is how to keep "waste" to a minimum. In actual fact, the waste issue may be extreme with plydomes (I have never built one), but with any garden-variety geodesic, built from 2x6s, 2x4s, metal pipe, plastic pipe, or whatever you can: 1) Take your lengths, and figure out how to best use standard lengths by planning to get, for example, a 7'-6" strut AND a 5'-3 5/16ths from a 14-foot 2x6. If you "match up" different struts, you will see that you can have LOTS of waste, or very little, depending upon your own ability to plan. 2) Recall that you really do NOT care about "minimum use of materials", you care about minimum COST. This means that you must decide on ONE length for each type of board, pipe whatever. Why? 'Cause you are NOT gonna buy this stuff at the local mega-home center, you are gonna order it from the lumber mill or the wholesaler by the "Unit" (for lumber), or in whatever quantity gets you the best possible price. Think about an entire pallet-load of material, because this is what it takes to build anything that is not a backyard "toy". The game is COST. Figure out what you have the least of, or what is the most expensive thing you need, and make sure that, for example, labor costs do not wipe out the huge "savings" you predicted from building that 45-foot dome-home entirely from toothpicks. In Cyberspace, no one can hear that they are being laughed at. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:00:57 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 16 Aug 1996 to 18 Aug 1996 Stephen was asking about dome hubs connectors: >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 23:07:24 -0500 >From: Steve Johnson >Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Another option for a structure utilizing tubing is one made on the basis of tensegrity geometry (actually deresonated tensegrity as Fuller called it, where there are no cables and the struts are connected firmly together). This has some distinct advantages for the connectors since there are always only two strut ends connecting near the middle of a third strut. All ends are located at the surface of the sphere so there is chord depth at the connection to worry about unless the struts are curved. If the struts are curved all that would be required would be some tabs with holes welded to the sides of the struts near the middle. Not sure how strong everything would be if all struts were curved but that should be pretty easy to test. I have done quite a bit of 3-D CAD tensegrity geometry work on my Mac and could design tensegrity geometry towards specific requirements as to limitations of length of span, sizes of openings, diameter, truncation etc. -Ken- ____________________________________________________________________ Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. Internet: Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:47:34 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Johnson Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Eric Fleming wrote: > I am looking for a source to purchase metal hubs so that I may build a > metal tube geodesic dome. I plan on inserting screen panels to > ultimately have a screen dome. The dome would be a 20' dome on 3' > risers. > Eric > efleming@slctnet.com Yes I'm looking for the same thing, I've envisioned what I would like it to look like and would be willing to have them made if one or two others would like to order as well. I'm thinking of 1-1/4" conduit (trade size, either EMT or Aluminum Rigid). What type dome are you thinking of Eric? The simpler the better for my purposes. Would prefer all struts equal length and a 5/8 dome. Steven ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:46:10 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck Stoffregen Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 16 Aug 1996 to 18 Aug 1996 >I have done quite a bit of 3-D CAD tensegrity geometry work on my Mac and >could design tensegrity geometry towards specific requirements as to >limitations of length of span, sizes of openings, diameter, truncation etc. > >-Ken- > >____________________________________________________________________ >Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. >Internet: >Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 >206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 >Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 >____________________________________________________________________ Ken, could you give more info on the Mac CAD software you are using? Chuck Stoffregen Computer and Technology Teacher Madison Area Technical College e-mail Web Page Fax (608) 246-6880 Synergy - Behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the behavior of their parts taken seperately. R.B. Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:40:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Oregon Dome, Inc" Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors You might try sending a letter to the folks at Cascade Domes. They used to build domes with metal struts. I'm not sure that they are still producing domes, but it will only cost you $.32 to find out. At 10:50 PM 8/20/96 -0700, you wrote: >I am looking for a source to purchase metal hubs so that I may build a >metal tube geodesic dome. I plan on inserting screen panels to >ultimately have a screen dome. The dome would be a 20' dome on 3' >risers. > >Eric >efleming@slctnet.com > > Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:54:08 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ray Strand Subject: Re: Plydomes/waste :::: H i :::: I couldn't resist jumping in here and building on some of these = ideas. Plydomes are unusual structures for home construction. Unless= you=20 get your kicks as a designer or architect or inventor, it may be more= efficient=20 to go through a company. =20 Does anyone know of a company (or someone with designs) for a pl= ydome home.=20 Why reinvent the wheel?...work and improve on making a better one... the next generation. =20 20 years ago, right out of college (I=B9m feeling old now), I wo= rked for a geodesic dome company in Minneapolis (=B3The Big Outdoors People,Inc.=B2). = One of the=20 owners (Dennis Johnson) is still in business (=B3Natural Spaces=B2, i= n North Branch, MN), designing custom domes. He also has some standard dome packages. = =20 (Someone on this list has a web page with a listing of dome manufactu= rers). I mention Dennis because I know him as a friend and used to work for= him. =20 He is a talented architect that has specialized in designing and bu= ilding domes for over 20 years, and has also lived in his dome for that time. He= has potentially had something to do with the building of hundreds of domes, commercia= l and residential. =20 There may be important issues to be considered when choosing one= kind of structure over another, ie. how it will be to integrate roofing and= insulation=20 and interior finish skin to the initial structure (plywood). Here in= Minnesnowta, insulation ranks way up there in priorities, since a well insulated = dome will pay for=20 itself over time in energy savings, even if more is spent initially. = =20 > "Waste" is an important issue in geodesic structures. > Roan, if you can work out any numbers for any ratio > (such as a 4x8-foot sheet of plywood), --Plywood or chip board in other sizes are available from manufacture= rs,=20 we used to order unusual sized chipboard (8 X 16 or 20) that was= =20 delivered to the warehouse shop on a flatbed railroad car that was pa= rked=20 alongside the building. The problem may be in ordering in large enou= gh=20 quantities (and then being able to ship) to make it an economical al= ternative. A company may do the volume necessary for this sort of thing... an in= dividual=20 may not. =B3Economies of scale=B2 are something that artists run in= to all the time when set alongside manufacturing. There may need to be other value/= reasons, than a dollar amount, for doing things. --Consider techniques for creating non-standard, custom materials efficiently (joinery). We used corrugated clips to join tips o= nto panels that needed to be larger. Order tongue and groove panels? Use so= me=20 of the new water proof glues and biscuit plates? Joinery may introd= uce=20 weakness (or strength if done properly), but, would usually imply mor= e labor... advantages of using standard materials. =20 --What about laminating several layers of thin plywood together in pa= tterns that overlap (variation on joinery technique)? Plydomes overlap, an= d are joined at the overlap, and there may be holes occurring at regular patterns= . Build a dome within a dome that is rotated in an orientation that covers th= e holes, or can be joined to the other dome, or is of another diameter to leave a sp= ace for=20 insulation. How about a =B3standard=B2 2 X 4 dome with hubs on the= outside and a plywood dome of thin plywood on the inside that would bend int= o arcs that would make for a smoother, more spherical interior (rather than= having to look at all those darn facets (I actually don=B9t mind, but prefer l= ooking at higher frequencies)). > see them. Few have messed with plydomes, and you > well may have come up with something that will allow > us to coin the term "Roan-Dome". I like the name! go for it, but get cooperative advice from those that have gone befor= e...search=20 these archives and the books. However, present a problem and there may be an elegant solution = =B3de novo=B2=20 or from an unlikely alternative source that exists already. Sometim= es fresh and =20 elegant design solutions come from someone that has little training a= nd few of the boundaries and prejudices (or even time or financial constraints) th= at a professional may have. > Many folks make the flat statement that a geodesic > structure encloses the most space (by volume) with > the least materials. This is true, but there is > "waste", since materials are not available in the > exact lengths/widths needed to build such a geodesic > structure. >=20 =20 > 4) Therefore, for any "standard-issue" > material size, there is an optimum > dome size that maximizes the use of > THAT material. You've=B9 got that right, but there may be a ways to design around = it (changing=20 frequency is a great way to work with limitations in the size of mate= rials). =20 > Now, few people start with a 4x8 sheet of plywood > (Oriented Strand Board, or "OSB" is a much better > form of "plywood" than plywood itself, by the way.) > and work backwards from there, but this is how to > keep "waste" to a minimum. >=20 > Why? 'Cause you are NOT gonna buy this > stuff at the local mega-home center, you > are gonna order it from the lumber mill > or the wholesaler by the "Unit" (for > lumber), or in whatever quantity gets > you the best possible price.=20 Consider the expense of the materials, compared to buying the machine= ry that=20 could produce what you need. I'd like to get a small, efficient saw= mill and make a structure from scratch. For some people it is an absurd= =20 consideration, for me most practical. =20 > The game is COST. Figure out what you have the least (economics and the flow of value in systems,=20 a place to evaluate how to meet goals or maintain what = is already) > of, or what is the most expensive thing you need, and > make sure that, for example, labor costs do not wipe > out the huge "savings" you predicted from building > that 45-foot dome-home entirely from toothpicks. Another reason to consult with a dome design/building compan= y that has experience and design alternatives, unless you enjoy the design proc= ess and can take complete responsibility for the consequences (good and bad)= . Lots of luck, make wise choices. P.S. The discussion over at "DomeHome-H" has=20 been kind of slow lately. That may be a good place to send some of t= his =B3nuts and=20 bolts=B2 dome construction info to. I=B9m still getting familiar wit= h the archives=20 available on this server and just getting back into following up on = some of my interests that were originally inspired by Buckminster Fuller, a whi= le ago...and=20 I=B9ve quit moving from one end of the nation to the other and am set= tling down with=20 my family in a small town, with a university, on the prairie to make = art furniture. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:54:51 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Johnson Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 16 Aug 1996 to 18 Aug 1996 Ken, Yes I would be interested in your drafting the hub connector I have in mind. It would not use curved tubing as I want something very simple. I'm not familiar with deresonated tensegrity but will try and find it in "Synergetics". I'm thinking of using 1" or 1-1/4" EMT or aluminum rigid. I'll draw a sketch of the connector and fax it to you, then give you a call to discuss it. Are you using MiniCad? Steven Johnson Nashville, Tennessee 615-726-1112 ------------------------------------------------------ Ken G. Brown wrote: > > Stephen was asking about dome hubs connectors: > > >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 23:07 > >Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors > > Another option for a structure utilizing tubing is one made on the basis of > tensegrity geometry (actually deresonated tensegrity as Fuller called it, > where there are no cables and the struts are connected firmly together). > This has some distinct advantages for the connectors since there are always > only two strut ends connecting near the middle of a third strut. All ends > are located at the surface of the sphere so there is chord depth at the > connection to worry about unless the struts are curved. If the struts are > curved all that would be required would be some tabs with holes welded to > the sides of the struts near the middle. Not sure how strong everything > would be if all struts were curved but that should be pretty easy to test. > > I have done quite a bit of 3-D CAD tensegrity geometry work on my Mac and > could design tensegrity geometry towards specific requirements as to > limitations of length of span, sizes of openings, diameter, truncation etc. > > -Ken- > > ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:49:41 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Johnson Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Comments: To: Michael Rowland Comments: cc: efleming@slctnet.com Michael Rowland wrote: > > Steve & Eric: > I, too, am interested in hubs, both 5- and 6-pointed, for building a 2-frequency > dodecahedron dome. 1-1/4" conduit sounds great to me. I've also considered >steel ribar, for reinforced concrete. Maybe we can get a bunch of folks together >and drive down the cost on having hubs fabricated? > > I've also wondered what costs would be involved in making hubs for extruded > aluminum, the better to install glass panes. > > J. Michael Rowland > jmr@management21.com > 800-899-0021 ----------------------------------------------- Michael, I agree if we had a big enough order we could drive the cost down. If I am able to get a spec drawing with Ken Brown we could even get quotes from machine shops in our various locations. Might even get a better price in an area where work is a little slow rather than an area with a lot of construction going on. The extruded aluminum idea sounds pretty neat. I don't think it would be as strong as tubing, but maybe so. It would provide a great solution for covering the panels though. I'm an electrical contractor which is what got me thinking about using conduit. Also it's cheap and universally (well at least planetarily) available. What I'm thinking of is a fairly large gazebo, carport, playhouse kind of thing, not a dwelling. It would shed water but not be watertight. Not all the triangles would be covered particularly the ones down lower. I was thinking of maybe plexiglass and construction adhesive for the panels. Don't know how practical that would be, anybody tried it on a nondwelling type dome? Steven Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:16:05 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Roan Carratu Subject: Re: Plydomes/waste James Fischer wrote: > > Chita wrote: > > >> If you'll do a few cardboard "rehearsals" of using 4x8 plywood > >> sheets to construct a dome, I think you might think twice: it's > >> about the most labor intensive, materials-wasting construction > >> methods around. There's enough scrap left over to house a small > >> banana republic... > > ...and Roan replied: > > >On the other hand, there is a way to do it where there is no waste > >at all. Experiment with cardboard to figure it out, but be aware > >there is a way to do it. > > "Waste" is an important issue in geodesic structures. > Roan, if you can work out any numbers for any ratio > (such as a 4x8-foot sheet of plywood), I would love to > see them. Few have messed with plydomes, and you > well may have come up with something that will allow > us to coin the term "Roan-Dome". I like the name! > > Many folks make the flat statement that a geodesic > structure encloses the most space (by volume) with > the least materials. This is true, but there is > "waste", since materials are not available in the > exact lengths/widths needed to build such a geodesic > structure. > > In the case of the plydome, it may well be possible to > build one without cutting, but does this mean that there > is no waste? It does not follow that all dome sizes > could be built without waste, unless Roan has come up > with something very unusual. Think about it: First, I must apologize. The plydome experiment I did was over a decade ago, and I remembered right after I sent the message that I did have to cut a thin triangular sliver off each corner of each sheet. So there was some waste after all in my experiment. If I had interlaced the sheets properly, like I explain below, I may not have needed to do that cutting, but I ran out of money to try another experiment. The three sheets of each triangular section could have been interlaced like the four flaps of a cardboard box top. The material I used did not have the required flexibility. (I used waterproof pressboard.) The proportions of the sheets I used were the result of a woodyard mistake, so that was probably why I didn't have to cut them into the right proportions. This may well be required if common materials are desired, and that would certainly produce waste unless the cut off pieces couldn't be integrated into the design in a secondary capacity. I did discover a bunch though. There were four main criteria for building a stress supported plydome. First, the materials flexibility, which has to be within severe limits. It has to be flexible enough to bend into the shape required while maintaining the appropriate level of resistance to that bending. Too much flexibility and the overlaps will not create the stressed geodesic support structure required. Too little, and the sheets will tear apart. Second, the material has to be able to resist tearing at the location of bolts or between overlaps, where the stress is highest. The dome must stress into a true spherical shape, not a faceted shape. Third, the number of bolts used where the sheets overlap must be an optimum number. Too many would weaken the material while not enough would put too much stress on the bolts. This might be assisted by force-applying glue into the overlap after the dome is built or, better yet, applying. a very slow drying waterproof glue between the overlaps as they are assembled to dry after each ten sheet section is stressed to insert that section's final bolts. Fourth, the exact proportion of the sheets length to width is required to make the sheets form the triangles required with only the tiniest of gaps where the center edge of each sheet meets the others. This gap will require caulking if a water proof structure is desired. The shape it forms would be some frequency great circle icosahedron. The size of the dome is determined by the size of the sheets, not any other criteria. If there is anything but the tiniest triangular gap between the sheets, then the proportions are wrong, and the overlap support would not be optimal. Since the overlaps must butt against each other, (one above and one below a lengthwise centerline of each sheet), along the entire length of the overlap cut edge, and each sheet must fit together tightly at the midpoint of each side of the sheet, the 28' diameter vs the 30' diameter question you have below does not occur. The most stress is at the top center width edge of each sheet, at the vertexes of the icosahedron, where the overlap edges meet, one above each sheet and one below. I will attempt to draw a .jpg schematic to illustrate this soon. > The game is COST. Figure out what you have the least > of, or what is the most expensive thing you need, and > make sure that, for example, labor costs do not wipe > out the huge "savings" you predicted from building > that 45-foot dome-home entirely from toothpicks. Having built many houses, I am aware of cost. Buying sheets of the appropriate material and a large number of nuts, bolts, and washers, along with some kind of steel cable and a come-along for the stressing could cost a lot or cost little. I don't know. I didn't have the money to experiment further. A structurally stand-alone interior Livingry system would cost quite a bit also. I have no idea how much extraneous interior weight the plydome could hold if the interior Livingry system was suspended from it. There is a large need to experiment further to prove the design, but I am convinced it would work if all specific conditions were met. Peace, Roan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:09:38 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Plydomes/waste Comments: cc: DOME HOME LIST In-Reply-To: <199608220026.UAA29110@mujibur.inmind.com>; from "James Fischer" at Aug 21, 96 8:25 pm There's also an article about domes made out of plywood sheets in the Spring 1994 issue of DOME magazine on pages 5-9. -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:46:29 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 16 Aug 1996 to 18 Aug 1996 Comments: cc: DOME HOME LIST In-Reply-To: <321DAA1B.12B8@accessus.net>; from "Steve Johnson" at Aug 23, 96 7:54 am Steve Johnson writes: > > Ken, > Yes I would be interested in your drafting the hub connector I have in mind. It > would not use curved tubing as I want something very simple. I'm not familiar > with deresonated tensegrity but will try and find it in "Synergetics". I'm thinking > of using 1" or 1-1/4" EMT or aluminum rigid. I'll draw a sketch of the connector > and fax it to you, then give you a call to discuss it. Are you using MiniCad? > > Steven Johnson > Nashville, Tennessee > 615-726-1112 For info on Rigid or Deresonated Tensegrities see: _Geodesic Math & How to Use It_, pages 41-44. _World Design Science Decade 1965-75 Phase I, Document 2: The Design Initiative_, page 44. -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:29:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Oregon Dome, Inc" Subject: Plans now available Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com Geodesic Folks, After months of hype and long hours figuring out the difference between mac binary and pc binary, the Oregon Dome Plan Page is up! We've posted seven plans at our website in zipped .tif files that can be downloaded. These are just some examples of what we have done in the past. There are hundreds more plans in our library that are completely different that the ones at the site. Check it out and give me some feed back, if you will. Also, I am beginning to work on our links page, so if you have some suggestions for sites to link to, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:54:23 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Comments: To: Steve Johnson Comments: cc: efleming@slctnet.com Steve Johnson ,Internet writes: > Might even get a better price in an area where work is a > little slow rather than an area with a lot of construction going on This sounds like a truly "doing more with less" approach. (Or, at least "doing more FOR less.") > The extruded aluminum idea sounds pretty neat. > It would provide a great solution for covering the panels... That's my intention. Originally, I proposed to build something out of scrap aluminum (old storm doors and window-parts that people throw away so carelessly), cut to length and pop-riveted together. I've always heard that the biggest drawback of domes is it's hard to build them so that they don't leak. (Then I realized that the pop-rivets would *probably inevitably* leak.) I understand there are some pretty good adhesives and sealants available now... but I have a budget that's flatter than a Mac's learning curve. And what I really want is a greenhouse dome, preferably a BIG one, to sit on top of a cliff overlooking the Kentucky River. How can I help with these hubs? Had you in mind hubs with round cross-sectional sockets that conduit would fit inside? or the flattened bolt-together kind? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:06:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: satelconseil@CALVA.NET Organization: CalvaCom Networks Subject: The World of Satellite in a NET ?! Satel Conseil, the French satellite communications consulting and engineering firm, will hold the fifth edition of its symposium on September 4, 5 and 6, 1996, at the Conference Center of the "Maison de la Chimie" in Paris. Organized under the patronage of Mr. Frangois Fillon, French Cabinet Minister for Postal Services, Telecommunications and Space, this key event in the satcom calendar will feature sixty of the world's leading specialists in communications systems. As the world heads toward the 21st century, satellites continue to play an important role in communications systems but their assigned missions will have to evolve to keep pace with the wide range of new services beeing offered to customers. Satel Conseil Satel Conseil's Fifth Symposium 5, rue Louis Lejeune 92128 Montrouge Cedex http://www.francetelecom.com/SATEL/index.html France 33-1-46 57 75 65 Tel 33-1-46 57 70 34 Fax satelconseil@calva.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:40:06 -0400 Reply-To: PLonewolf Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: PLonewolf Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors Cascade uses square aluminum struts. I have talked to them and they make a good product for the price. I too have been looking for a hub for making my own for years but have yet to trace one down. I have been thinking about ways to make one and all but I hit the money barrier has well, on the other hand, I can put time into it and come up with something I could use but not be that economical for others. I can't do the scale of economy thing. If anyone finds one please post it here. Thanks Pierre A. Lonewolf Lonewolf Communications KOTZ-AM Kotzebue, Alaska 99752 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:18:27 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 21 Aug 1996 to 22 Aug 1996 >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:46:10 -0600 >From: Chuck Stoffregen >Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 16 Aug 1996 to 18 Aug 1996 > >>I have done quite a bit of 3-D CAD tensegrity geometry work on my Mac and >>could design tensegrity geometry towards specific requirements as to >>limitations of length of span, sizes of openings, diameter, truncation etc. >> >>-Ken- >> >>____________________________________________________________________ >>Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. >>Internet: >>Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 >>206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 >>Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 >>____________________________________________________________________ > >Ken, >could you give more info on the Mac CAD software you are using? > >Chuck Stoffregen >Computer and Technology Teacher >Madison Area Technical College >e-mail >Web Page >Fax (608) 246-6880 >Synergy - Behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the behavior of their >parts taken seperately. R.B. Fuller > >------------------------------ I am using Ashlar Vellum 3-D for the Mac. I like it much better than AutoCad or similar but it is only wireframe for now (Autodesk has licensed their drafting assistant) although it should be real nice when they come out with hidden line removal and surfaces (Real Soon Now!). Working in 3-D spherics takes some effort, not to mention horsepower. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:18:49 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Johnson Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 16 Aug 1996 to 18 Aug 1996 > For info on Rigid or Deresonated Tensegrities see: > > _Geodesic Math & How to Use It_, pages 41-44. > > _World Design Science Decade 1965-75 Phase I, Document 2: The Design > Initiative_, page 44. > > JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 > 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 > CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:49:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Fleming Organization: A News Reader at ATMNet Subject: Dome design calculation questions I need some help with dome formulas. I am trying to design a 3 frequency icosahedron 5/8 sphere 24 feet in diameter. I understand that the sphere is constructed of six pentagons using struts of length A. It also consists of five hexagons using struts of length B. These pentagons and hexagons are outlined by struts of length C. I believe that the length of B and C are the same. Please correct me if I am wrong. How do I calculate the length of A, B and C for the above specifications and different diameter domes. For my second question. Is it correct that the angle of each spoke, for the above mentioned dome, coming from the five and six spoke hub is twelve degrees? I get the twelve degrees from taking my 15 sided dome and dividing it into 360 to get 24 degree angles from one spoke to the next. This would relate to a 12 degree spoke angle coming from each hub. With this same logic I would think that the angle of each spoke coming from the five and six spoke hub of a 2 frequency icosahedron is fifteen degrees. I get the fifteen degrees from taking my 12 sided dome and dividing it into 360 to get 30 degree angles from one spoke to the next. This would relate to a 15 degree spoke angle coming from each hub. Am I way off with these thoughts or is this correct. Where can I find a formula or program to help me calculate these strut lengths and hub angles? Any help or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Eric Fleming efleming@slctnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:34:01 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Andrew K Thompson Subject: Finding basic info Hi, I just started following this list a few days ago. I wonder if someone could mail me URL's where I can get some basic information on what the heck this group is discussing! Thanks(and sorry for the spam) -- "Don't you see, it's as plain as the nose on your ugly little primate faces." Q, "All Good Things..." Andrew Thompson akt@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:39:11 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: Re: Finding basic info In-Reply-To: <19960824.094148.10607.1.akt@juno.com>; from "Andrew K Thompson" at Aug 24, 96 9:34 am Andrew K Thompson writes: > Hi, > I just started following this list a few days ago. I wonder if > someone could mail me URL's where I can get some basic information on > what the heck this group is discussing! > Thanks(and sorry for the spam) > Andrew Thompson > akt@juno.com See the FAQ at http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf/fuller-faq.html We generally discuss the ideas of the late R.Buckminster Fuller. See also http://metro.turnpike.net/G/GoatBoy/bucky.html http://www.bfi.org -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:00:22 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 22 Aug 1996 to 23 Aug 1996 >Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:54:51 -0500 >From: Steve Johnson >Subject: Re: GEODESIC Digest - 16 Aug 1996 to 18 Aug 1996 > >Ken, >Yes I would be interested in your drafting the hub connector I have in mind. It >would not use curved tubing as I want something very simple. I'm not familiar >with deresonated tensegrity but will try and find it in "Synergetics". I'm >thinking >of using 1" or 1-1/4" EMT or aluminum rigid. I'll draw a sketch of the >connector >and fax it to you, then give you a call to discuss it. Are you using MiniCad? > >Steven Johnson >Nashville, Tennessee >615-726-1112 I'm interested and I'm using Ashlar Vellum 3-D for Mac. It has various output options like DXF, IGES, PICT etc. For some time now I have been toying with the idea of designing a 20 foot or so gazebo/greenhouse/etc. structure. Perhaps we can collaborate to come up with a marketable unit. I have come up with a reasonably slick connection scheme for the de-res tensegrity geometry utilizing tubing which could use some testing etc. I haven't built a full size model yet. The de-res geometry works out that all connections are two ends joining near the middle of a third member. Panel shapes are no longer all triangles but hexagons (which can be made from three diamonds), small triangles and a few pentagons. Attention will also need to be given to how panels would be attached since the struts follow a over/under methodology resulting in steps in the surface. I have found that building with this geometry has some inherent adjustability in it which allows for easy assembly and less critical tolerances. Also the joints (two ends, end to end connected over the middle of a third) seem simpler to me. The struture would be relatively very strong for the material used. -Ken- ____________________________________________________________________ Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. Internet: Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:53:26 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe Moore Subject: BUCKMINSTER FULLER BY POTTER TABLE OF CONTENTS OF _BUCKMINSTER FULLER_ BY ROBERT R. POTTER (1990) 00 Title Page 1 pic 01 Comfortably Off 1 pic 02 Teenage Troubles 2 pics 03 The Time of My Life 1 pic 04 Frowns of Fortune 05 Stockade and Solitude 06 Dymaxion Days 2 pics; 2 drawings 07 Through War and Peace 1 pic 08 The Dome Man 3 pics; 1 drawing 09 Spaceship Earth 2 pics 10 Important Dates 1 pic 11 Bibliography 12 Index 13 About the Author Note: As of 8-96 this book is still in print. -- JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:22:55 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Organization: HiLINE Internet Services, Inc. Subject: Re: Dome design calculation questions In article <321E9800.57C7@slctnet.com>, efleming@slctnet.com says... > >I need some help with dome formulas. I am trying to design a 3 frequency >icosahedron 5/8 sphere 24 feet in diameter. I understand that the >sphere is constructed of six pentagons using struts of length A. It also >consists of five hexagons using struts of length B. These pentagons and >hexagons are outlined by struts of length C. I believe that the length >of B and C are the same. Please correct me if I am wrong. How do I >calculate the length of A, B and C for the above specifications and >different diameter domes. > >For my second question. Is it correct that the angle of each spoke, for >the above mentioned dome, coming from the five and six spoke hub is >twelve degrees? I get the twelve degrees from taking my 15 sided dome >and dividing it into 360 to get 24 degree angles from one spoke to the >next. This would relate to a 12 degree spoke angle coming from each hub. >With this same logic I would think that the angle of each spoke coming >from the five and six spoke hub of a 2 frequency icosahedron is fifteen >degrees. I get the fifteen degrees from taking my 12 sided dome and >dividing it into 360 to get 30 degree angles from one spoke to the >next. This would relate to a 15 degree spoke angle coming from each >hub. Am I way off with these thoughts or is this correct. > >Where can I find a formula or program to help me calculate these strut >lengths and hub angles? Any help or thoughts would be greatly >appreciated. > >Eric Fleming >efleming@slctnet.com Eric, Try my freeware DOME program at http://www.cris.com/~rjbono It will calculate geodesic dome parameters for you. The program has an ASCII report format that shows what the different strut length are. Hope it is of some help. Rick "Trying to finish the next version of DOME" Bono ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 23:08:30 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marco Tognon Subject: Re: Dome design calculation questions Helo Eric, try the program from Einar Thorstein "Dome Calculator 1". ( $ 12.50 US ) for windows. It calculates all angles and strud lengths of domes up to 120 Frequency. Size is of no importance. His URL: http://www.mmedia.is/kingdome/ A lot of other stuf is available. Cheers, Marco from Belgium >Where can I find a formula or program to help me calculate these strut >lengths and hub angles? Any help or thoughts would be greatly >appreciated. > >Eric Fleming >efleming@slctnet.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 21:23:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: An Economic Rationalist Approach to Homelessness? > >At 10:24 PM 8/25/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Arlene Allen wrote: >>> >>> How do you see the attached philosophy as fitting into a systems >>> orientation? >>> >>> Arlene >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Subject: An Economic Rationalist Approach to Homelessness? >>> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 12:12:48 +1000 >>> From: "Peter Garas" >>> Reply-To: homeless@csf.colorado.edu >>> To: HOMELESS DISCUSSION LIST > >To me, this 'An Economic Rationalist Approach to Homelessness?' >is not useful. Focusing on the family unit and trying to 'fix' >the deterioration at that level is a misapplication of micro- >economic analysis. You can't meaningfully talk in a contemporary >manner about the responsibility of kids vis-a-vis the adult world, >for example, if you leave the Vietnam war out of your analysis, >or the fact that Korean police are busy bashing students' heads >in with batons these days. > >Korean society is a lot about respecting one's parents, and the >government is, by extension, a representation of adult values >and behavior to those it governs, including its youth. To >leave the behavior of regimes out of the picture and try to >talk about 'obligations of children to parents' in the meantime, >is to forget that many children are too busy having their lives >destroyed by the older generation to worry about supporting >it in its old age -- maybe they would have, but we'll never >know, in the case of those killed or missing in action. > >We have older people very invested in misinformation, programmed >thereby to militate against their own children. Even though we >have the engineering savvy and technological know-how to eliminate >death by starvation and to remove underlying causes of war, the >meme-complexes which direct the killing to continue are still >infecting the minds of young and old alike -- but especially >the old since they've had more time to be misinformed. > >For another view, which contains some of the same key words >as the Garas piece, but comes from a very different angle, >see my 'New Circuit Designs for Motherboard Earth' at >http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/motherboard.html, and follow >some of the links. > >Kirby >---------------------------------------------------- >Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU >Email: pdx4d@teleport.com >Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ > > ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:12:15 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Future Reality Subject: Re: Plydomes/waste In-Reply-To: <9608230809.aa11363@cruzio.com> There is a DOME magazine?!!?? How where when who what? I'd like to know more about where to get it, please. Dean Ervik mailto:practopi@future.com.au On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Joe Moore wrote: > There's also an article about domes made out of plywood sheets in the Spring > 1994 issue of DOME magazine on pages 5-9. > > > -- > > JOE S. MOORE joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com TEL: 408-464-3743 > 850 PARK AVE, # 3-A ALTERNATE TEL AND/OR FAX: 408-479-0733 > CAPITOLA, CA 95010 USA I hereby declare this post to be in the public domain. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:11:10 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Johnson Subject: Re: Dome Hub Connectors J. Michael Rowland wrote: > And what I really want is a greenhouse dome, preferably a BIG one, to sit on >top of a cliff overlooking the Kentucky River. sounds nice. What part KY are you in? > How can I help with these hubs? Had you in mind hubs with round >cross-sectional sockets that conduit would fit inside? or the flattened >bolt-together kind? Definitely with compression fittings that the conduit would fit into and would be tightened down with a large wrench. I'll get a sketch together in a couple days. Swamped right now. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:21:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Family Values > = James R. Kelly = Kirby At 09:10 AM 8/26/96 -0700, James R. Kelly wrote: >Kirby > >Thanks, for that one, the Market Economy is dependant on the great herd >that does not consider the Market Economy--and homelessness is a necessary >end result of the PT Barnum--Maxum "There's a sucker born every minute." According to a well-researched bio of PT Barnum I saw on PBS, there's no indication that he ever said this. Possibly a misattribution (sounds like something he maybe *should* have said -- though from the bio, I'd say he wasn't nearly so cynical, either about his public, or about the quality of his showmanship). >And the argument that market economy could be instilled in every family as >an economic factor by legislation is about as lame as I've ever heard--and >is a facist rant by my own standards. The right answer for families and >their demise is Love--a ubiquitous and unquantifiable but all pervasive >factor. > And my point is that, sitting around the dinner table, the kids are likely to pull in Vietnam and student head-bashing in Korea, Kissinger's tacit support of the occupation of East Timor, the CIA's drug pushing to finance dirty wars in Central America, and so on. Parents without the information or conditioned-reflexes to deal with this kind of discussion sound lame to their kids, or worse, like part of the problem (and in some families, dad, a WWII veteran, calls the authorities when his kid goes AWOL 'for his own good' etc.). ---- from CRITICAL PATH by R. Buckminster Fuller The young were saying, "I know that Dad and Mom love me to pieces, and I love them to pieces, but they don't know what it's all about. They come home from the office or golf links or hairdressers and sit down to beer and small talk or 'sitcoms.' They have nothing to do with our going into Vietnam. They have nothing to do with our going to the Moon. They have nothing to do with anything except earning a living and spending it on TV-advertised goods. The whole world is in great trouble. My compassion is for all the people anywhere who are in trouble. Since the older people don't seem to know what is going on and are too preoccupied with irrelevancies, I and my contemporaries must do our own thinking and find out what needs to be done to make the world work." As we wrote in the opening lines of our "Self-Disciplines," Chapter 4, up to the time of the radio the older people were always saying to the young, "Never mind what you think. Listen. We are trying to teach you." With the TV making it clear to the young that the parents did not know much about anything and were not "the authority," the young, responding to intuition, said to themselves, "I am going to have to do my own thinking and take my own actions." Nonetheless, they were utterly unskilled in world affairs, highly idealistic, and easily exploitable. ---- Kirby BFI webmaster ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:42:39 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Jay Baldwin on Internet Radio today MEMORANDUM TO: geodesic@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu, synergetics-l@teleport.com FR: Kirby Urner, bfi.org RE: Jay Baldwin on Bucky Works via Build America website CC: Build America tech support Jay Baldwin is supposed to talk about his new book, Bucky Works, via the Build America website, today, at 4:05 PDT. See: http://www.buildamerica.com/wkshow/wkshow.htm http://www.buildamerica.com/interinf.htm This site uses Xing's StreamWorks to deliver audio. Last time Jay was supposed to be on (but his voice didn't get patched through), the Build America site had explicit instructions about getting a Xing player. This time, owing to a remodel of the site, I can't find any instructions on (a) getting the Xing player (which in my case isn't a problem -- I have it) or (b) getting the broadcast to stream across the web. If any of you out there in radio- land have a clue as to how to tune in Jay's talk today, please assist me with some tech support (yes, I've contacted info@buildamerica.com directly -- if I hear back, I'll keep y'all posted). Kirby BFI webmaster ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:52:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Today's show (tech support needed) Comments: To: Steve McGrath Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com >Kirby: A problem with the telephone company last time prevented Jay from >getting threough to our show. Hopefully no such problem this time. >However, there will be no live broadcast. Very soon we intend to have an >audio archive available for on demand playback of our shows. (No lengthy >download of huge audio files) This will build a library of interviews and >information available for access at any time. No live broadcast, bur much >greater convevenience for our audience. Please check back with our site to >find Jay's interview. Please note the links on the page to BFI etc. >Thanks >Steve McGrath > OK, I'll forward-post this to the would-be internet tuners-in. Seems like a lot of your prominently displayed 'Live on the Internet' iconography is quite misleading, given your dropping of that format [1]. Guess you didn't have time to make the change. I don't see off hand why you can't have *both* live streaming *and* archiving, as has been done at the Voyager site [2]. Also, by dropping the 'live' feature, you've made the IRC feedback loop less participatory. Disappointing design developments overall in my opinion, and I thank you for the link to BFI.[3] Kirby BFI webmaster [1] e.g. http://www.buildamerica.com/graphic/barlive.gif [2] http://www.voyagerco.com/media.demo/ [3] http://www.bfi.org/ ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:02:03 +0200 Reply-To: tomik@novell.arch.pwr.wroc.pl Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Piotr Tomaszewski Organization: Wydzial Architektury Politechniki Wroclawskiej Subject: Re: Dome design calculation questions Eric Fleming wrote: > > I need some help with dome formulas. Apart from all traditional methods involving subdivision of a whatever-hedron, there's another way. Think of a void sphere, with some little balls inside. Make the balls extremely light, and what's more important, make them repulsing each other. Just like magnets of the same sign. As you already figured out, the balls spread evenly the inside surface, making a good base for geodesic mesh solving. If you are interested, do not hesitate... mail: tomik@novell.arch.pwr.wroc.pl http://rysiek.t19.ds.pwr.wroc.pl/ greetings, Piotr. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:12:47 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Joe Moore's Master Index via ftp I have uploaded Joe Moore's Buckminster Fuller Master Index to Kiyoshi's machine where it is available for anonymous ftp access in the directory. The complete index is now available as one file in two additional formats: as a binhexed stuffit archive and as a ZIP file Thanks to Kiyoshi for offering the storage space and of course to Joe Moore for all his work in creating the index. -Ken- ____________________________________________________________________ Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. Internet: Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:12:52 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: De-res tensegrity JPEG's via ftp I have uploaded a JPEG of a CAD drawing of the geometry underlying a 90 strut de-res tensegrity sphere constructed from only two different pieces which are shown in a different color. It is available from Kiyoshi's machine where it is available for anonymous ftp access in the directory. Binhexed stuffit archive ZIP'ed Please let me know if there are any problems viewing these files. -Ken- ____________________________________________________________________ Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. Internet: Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:33:42 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: invisiable geogrphy(the name is taken from Toffler) Comments: To: "Ken G. Brown" In-Reply-To: i think it would be significan idea: to have a map connetcing all the organizations and people involved in the work of connecting the electric boards of Russia and the U.S.Os a sort of road map of information, indicating the obstcles and profitability, dteps taken, quantity, and what is need to be doen, ect. when a person sees this map, he can see actually what is in progress. this is better than unclear picture of unquantified information. is no this the way police works in thier research about crime. tagdi p.s what is os means ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 15:43:03 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kiyoshi Kuromiya Subject: Re: invisiable geogrphy(the name is taken from Toffler) Comments: cc: "John S. James" Tagdi and Ken-- In Seattle, about a month ago I was presenting a live demonstration of WWW at an AIDS conference. Two individuals from St. Petersburg, Russia who use Critical Path web page, described what their situation was. There are nine AIDS organizations in Russia linked together, but the phone lines are generally so poor that they are forced to use cellular phones to establish reliable links. I suggested to them that Critical Path could host pages for them that they could update by cellular phone--as an interim solution to their Internet connection problems. Along other lines, John James of AIDS Treatment News, myself and a small group of individuals have set up a mailing list on critpath.org to discuss connectivity and equipment issues in the developing world. And work on solutions. Ninety percent of all persons with AIDS are currently living in developing countries. We are compiling a database of contacts and organizations which now exist and have similar goals. Last fall I met with the head of biomedical research at a large Chinese university. In order for him to link to the Internet, he has to travel to another nearby university. --Kiyoshi >i think it would be significan idea: to have a map connetcing all >the organizations and people involved in the work of connecting >the electric boards of Russia and the U.S.Os a sort of road map >of information, indicating the obstcles and profitability, >dteps taken, quantity, and what is need to be doen, ect. > >when a person sees this map, he can see actually what >is in progress. this is better than unclear picture of >unquantified information. is no this the way police >works in thier research about crime. > >tagdi >p.s what is os means > _____________________________________________________________ Kiyoshi Kuromiya Critical Path AIDS Project Address: 2062 Lombard St, Phila., PA 19146 Email: kiyoshi@critpath.org Hotline: (215) 545-2212 (24-hr) Fax: (215) 735-2762 or (215) 545-2212 Internet or BBS: (215) 463-7160 Web Home Page: http://www.critpath.org Beeper: (800) 973-8084 for toll-free call-back ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 18:16:28 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: De-res tensegrity JPEG I have uploaded a JPEG of the top (plan) view of a 90 piece curved-strut de-resonated tensegrity sphere made with only two different pieces (shown in red). For front view, rotate 90 degrees. Created 960831 on Macintosh by Ken G. Brown, P.Eng. using Ashlar Vellum 3-D. It is available from Kiyoshi's machine via anonymous ftp in the directory. Point your browser to Please let me know if there are any problems viewing these files. -Ken- ____________________________________________________________________ Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. Internet: Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 ____________________________________________________________________