From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Sep 12 18:50:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g8CMoML2011116 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:50:22 -0400 Message-Id: <200209122250.g8CMoML2011116@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 10095 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 22:26:00 -0000 Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 22:26:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:26:00 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9609" To: Chris Fearnley Status: RO Content-Length: 201375 Lines: 4475 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 22:06:21 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: De-res tensegrity JPEG's Comments: cc: may@acs.ucalgary.ca, hawrelak@compusmart.ab.ca I seem to be getting the hang of this JPEG and uploading stuff so I've uploaded more JPEG's of de-res tensegrity geometry. 90 strut sphere made from 2 different pieces 360 strut sphere made from 6 different pieces, truncated at over one-half 810 strut sphere made from 13 pieces (partial) They are available from Kiyoshi's machine via anonymous ftp in the directory. Point your browser to and you should be able to view them all by clicking on the names in the directory list in turn. Please let me know if there are any problems viewing these files. -Ken- ____________________________________________________________________ Ken G. Brown, BscEE, PEng. Internet: Syngen Industrial Control Phone: 403.986.1203 206 Building B, 5904 - 50th Street Fax: 403.986.5299 Leduc, Alberta, Canada T9E 6J3 ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:07:29 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Joe Moore's Master Index via ftp "Ken G. Brown" wrote: >I have uploaded Joe Moore's Buckminster Fuller Master Index to Kiyoshi's > machine where it is available for anonymous ftp access in >the directory. > >The complete index is now available as one file in two additional formats: >as a binhexed stuffit archive and >as a ZIP file > >Thanks to Kiyoshi for offering the storage space and of course to Joe Moore >for all his work in creating the index. >-Ken- > Excellent work, all of you. Such a wonderous achievement. Still hoping some computer whiz'll FTP the lot and parse it into a tabular record schema, ala xBase 'DBF' format, perhaps with memo fields. We'll be wanting to have Joe's work retrievable via SQL or other keyword indexing technologies I should think, though free form text is getting easier to deal with, given the search engines etc. I may be getting obsolete in my fascination with database systems, so if anyone wants to tell me to back off on this one, I'm all ears. Joe, I misplaced your posting to this list re places and publications wherein the Fuller Projection has been used, in specific by the U.S. Customs Service some years ago. I'm engaged in immigration policy discussions via e-lists and would welcome access to that datum, which may prove relevant in some way (e.g. to show I'm not the only one interested in pursuing enlightened policies when it comes to humans exercising their freedom of movement rights aboard Spaceship Earth). I realize I can access this posting of yours by going to the BFI website (archives.html) and clicking on the hyperlink to Geodesic, which takes me to a web page accessing the archives for this newsgroup (or e-list as the case may be). So Joe, feel free to tell me you're too busy right now to dig up some reference. Yours, Kirby BFI webmaster ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:09:25 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marco Tognon Subject: Re: your mail Comments: To: "Casey J. Monahan" At 21:28 11/08/96 -0500, Casey J. Monahan wrote: >if you don't expect to find it, then you probably won't. > >what is "strange" is that you seem to expect someone to make a copy for you. > >the "future" is what you make of it. > > >> >> At 05:52 09/08/96 -0500, Casey J. Monahan wrote: >> >> >all you have to do is go to your library, request it through ILL >> >> >(Inter-Library Loan, an international system of book exchange between >> >> >libraries), and then once your library gets it in, check it out, go to >> >> >your local photostat shop, copy your book, then return the book to the >> >> >library. > To everybody that told me how to get a book from a local library: A friend of mine came back from the US. He indeed confirms the sugestions given by many of you. I must admid that the way the libraries in the US are organized is far more superior to the Belgian ones. We look like a toy whatever... He indeed found some books and could make a copy, cheap and fast. No problems. So, do to my ignorance I have to say that I reacted a bit "strange". Nevertheless, goodharted souls that can make a copy of books that are out of print are allways welcome. For the moment I have to read some stuf. Thanks to anybody who reacted to my writing. Cheers, Marco form Belgium ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:00:11 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Structural Analysis Hello All To anybody who has a twitch more than a casual interest in structural analysis, but lacking formal training in this regard, I think I have found just the book to put matters right. The book is called: "Structures or why things don't fall down", by J.E. Gordon. Published as a paperback by Penguin Science, ISBN 0-14-013628-2, recommended selling price U.K. stlg8.99, AUST. $ 19.95 and CAN. $15.99. I've downloaded finite element analysis programs such as "FElt" and "GBEAM", even managed to construct nice models of domes on these packages, but was soon at a loss for want of terms like: Poisson's ratio, Stress [in an engineering sense : ) ], Young's modulus etc. This book managed to take the mystery out of structural engineering in an entertaining and thought-provoking style, especially to those who have only an elementary proficiency in maths and no structural analysis training. Table of contents of the book: List of Plates Foreword Acknowledgements 1 The structures in our lives - or how to communicate with engineers. Part One - The difficult birth of the science of elasticity. 2 Why structures carry loads - or the springiness of solids. 3. The invention of stress and strain - or Baron Cauchy and the decipherment of Young's modulus. 4. Designing for safety - or can you really trust strength calculations? 5. Strain energy and modern fracture mechanics - with a digression on bows, catapults and kangaroos. Part Two Tension structures 6. Tension structures and pressure vessels - with some remarks on boilers, bats, and Chinese junks. 7. Joints, fastening and people - also about creep and chariot wheels. 8. Soft materials and living structures - or how to design a worm. Part Three Compression and bending structures 9. Walls, arches and dams - or cloud-capp'd towers and the stability of masonry. 10. Something about bridges - or Saint Benezet and Saint Isambard. 11. The advantages of being a beam - with observations on roofs, trusses and masts. 12. The mysteries of shear and torsion - or Polaris and the bias-cut nightie. 13. The various ways of failing in compression - or sandwiches, skulls and Dr Euler. Part Four And the consequence was... 14. The philosophy of design - or the shape, the weight and the cost. 15. A chapter of accidents - a study in sin, error and metal fatigue. 16. Efficiency and aesthetics - or the world we have to live in. Appendix 1 Handbooks and formulae Appendix 2 Beam theory Appendix 3 Torsion Appendix 4 The efficiency of columns and panels under compression loads. Suggestions for further study. Regards Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:24:05 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Re: your mail Comments: To: Marco Tognon In-Reply-To: <199609041709.TAA18980@ping1.ping.be> > To everybody that told me how to get a book from a local library: > > A friend of mine came back from the US. He indeed confirms the sugestions > given by > many of you. > I must admid that the way the libraries in the US are organized is far more > superior > to the Belgian ones. We look like a toy whatever... libraries in the north part of europe are organized in way that make it hard to get a book. frist the classification can give one a headech. very obviously it meant to keep knowldge secret, somthing inhereted from the past. though they go to a extremes to get the most important selections of books. every library also has a reception with cameras and a system of servaliance-they say there are are a lot of thives- this makes the library a sort of prison cell. my only complain about american libraries is that the space of reading can be alienating, but other than that i find it very handy system and made for people to use. just as the stations are invaded by camers. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:28:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: My site reviewed Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Howdy all -- Just got a note from Bucky's daughter Allegra at BFI pointing me to an IBM site where the WNET site the BFI site my Synergetics on the Web and Chris Fearnley's The R. Buckminster Fuller FAQ are all reviewed. Here's what the reviewer wrote about my site. Pretty cool! I have you folks to thank. Of course Quain left out more than he included re Bucky on the Web. But traffic to the springnet of four sites (above) adds to the traffic circulating through the Bucky-related stuff overall, I'd hazard. Kirby ----------------- An excerpt from http://www.ibm.net/tw/archive/090396.html Today's Feature by John R. Quain [1] Tuesday, September 3rd, 1996 Synergetics on the Web Artfully presented and designed, Kirby Urner's Synergetics on the Web is one of the finest and most cohesive Web sites yet created on any subject. Synergetics is Fuller's approach to replacing the standard mathematical coordinate system in geometry. He thought synergetics could properly chart the universe and, in essence, map how God thought. Urner's explanation of the subject matter is first rate here, as he discusses the subject describing synergetics a "geometry of lumps in which even points occupy volume, however infinitesimal." Each of the articles here are hotlinked to other related source material covering everything from Euclid and Euler to tetrahedrons. Along the way there are numerous graphics to give you a visual understanding of the concepts being discussed. A separate section on geodesic domes includes a history of their development and construction, the geometric principles behind them, a pillowdome prototype, and a list of current dome manufacturers. You'll even find a photo of perhaps the most famous full sphere, the Spaceship Earth Pavilion constructed for AT&T at Disney's Epcot center. Also located at the Synergetics site is an area on the Fuller Projection or Dymaxion Map which solves the problem of displaying spherical data on a flat surface. Fuller's map of the world was the first cartographic representation ever granted a patent at the U.S. patent office and is still considered to be the most accurate map of our planet. The principles behind it are explained here, as are those behind Design Science, conceived of as a global application of synergetic geometry. It makes for an inspiring Web resource peppered with graphics, photos, and animations that truly bring its subject matter to life. ---------- [1] The links provided by this page do not reflect IBM's views or opinions. They are meant as examples to show the variety and diversity of topics which can be found on the World Wide Web. ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:54:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: searching for BUCKYWORKS reviews -afs Comments: To: AFSNYDER@aol.com Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com Allegra -- your wish is my command. Recall also my suggestion that my Brainstorming on BuckyWork essay be TrimTabbed only in part, as in *excerpts*, with an URL pointing to the full work for those desiring. Certainly Jay's book has made a big splash-hit impact and, all reviews aside, has made waves still rippling outward through the internet. I'll pull a recent memo (Urner to Dr. Richard Meier et al) from archives as a follow-up email, cc to Jay, to show you what I mean. Yours, Kirby Cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com, geodesic@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu At 01:29 PM 9/6/96 -0400, you wrote: >Kirby, > >I just received from Jay yesterday copies of all the reviews of BUCKYWORKS >that he is aware of. As he forewarned me they are all more factual than >analytical, neither substantive nor meaty. I'm sure some of the more serious >publications will do reviews eventually, in the meantime, I am looking for >something stimulating for a lead article of the TRIMTAB. I wondered if you >could put out a message to the Geodesics group asking if any of them has read >OR WRITTEN a comprehensive review which we might publish. -- And I need it >fast. > >Love, Allegra > ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:57:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Joe Moore's Master Index via ftp Comments: cc: "pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM" ---------- From: Kirby Urner[SMTP:pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM] Sent: Monday, September 02, 1996 10:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list GEODESIC Subject: Re: Joe Moore's Master Index via ftp (snip) Joe, I misplaced your posting to this list re places and publications wherein the Fuller Projection has been used, in specific by the U.S. Customs Service some years ago. I'm engaged in immigration policy discussions via e-lists and would welcome access to that datum, which may prove relevant in some way (e.g. to show I'm not the only one interested in pursuing enlightened policies when it comes to humans exercising their freedom of movement rights aboard Spaceship Earth). It appears on the cover page of the U.S.Customs Service booklet entitled The International Activities of the U.S.Customs Service". See: BFI newsletter, Summer 1984, pages 5-6. BFI newsletter, Autumn 1992, page 8. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:25:38 -0700 Reply-To: joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Organization: none Subject: TEST Comments: cc: Synergetics List test ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:28:49 -0700 Reply-To: joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Organization: none Subject: BFI FINANCES Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com BUCKMINSTER FULLER INSTITUTE Federal ID 953,273,023 C/O KATZ & CO CPA'S California ID 56,602 11980 SAN VICENTE BLVD, #505 Purpose 323 Class FD LOS ANGELES, CA 90049 Established 1983 Direct Public Support $015,292 Last Report 93-12 Indirect Public Support $000,000 Program Expenses $306,324 Government Support $000,000 Man & General Expenses $049,574 Total Revenues $295,310 Fund Expenses $000,000 Total Assets $294,794 Pay Affil $000,000 Total Liabilities $015,225 Total Expenses $355,898 EZ Total Revenue $000,000 Pay Officers $032,563 EZ Total Assets $000,000 Pay Professional Fund $000,000 Source: http://www.igc.apc.org/inc/ca-b Report Date 12-01-93 Ct No 56,602 Total Revenue $295,310 Program % 104 Management % 17 Fund % Source: http://www.igc.apc.org/inc/table3.txt Data was obtained from the Registry of Charitable Trusts in the Attorney General's Office in Sacramento, CA, in February, 1995. DANIEL E. LUNGREN Attorney General, State of California DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 455 GOLDEN GATE AVENUE, SUITE 6200 SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94102 (415) 7O3-1985 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:33:41 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bd81064@BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: BFI Comments: To: "Joe S. Moore" In-Reply-To: <323E0CE0.6EDE@bbs.cruzio.com> Has anyone received TRIMTAB, the BFI newsletter lately. It seems I haven't seen one since last winter. What's the latest news about the state of affairs at BFI? Marcia Blackburn Art History Department Binghamton University Binghamton, NY 13905 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:07:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: BFI In-Reply-To: from "bd81064@BINGHAMTON.EDU" at Sep 16, 96 11:33:41 pm > Has anyone received TRIMTAB, the BFI newsletter lately. It seems I haven't > seen one since last winter. What's the latest news about the state of > affairs at BFI? > > Marcia Blackburn > Art History Department > Binghamton University > Binghamton, NY 13905 I beleive they're hard at work on the newest issue, which is due out very soon. I'm writing a review of the new "BuckyWorks" book for it, and they want the article _right away_, so I'm led to beleive it's just about ready to hit the press. :) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:58:58 -0700 Reply-To: ndomoko@awinc.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Neil Domonkos Organization: HookUp Communication Corporation, Vancouver, BC, CANADA Subject: Canadian dome manufacturers I am in search of a Canadian Manufacturer of Dome Homes or Dome home kits. If you can direct me to such a company your help would be greatly appreciated. Neil. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:56:58 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Re: BFI In-Reply-To: <199609170607.XAA01607@bootstrap.sculptors.com> > > > Pat > _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ How! > Patrick G. Salsbury > http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ > ----------------------- > Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 03:51:35 -0400 Reply-To: JustWINK Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: DEMONSTRATED & EXPLAINED... : a review DEMONSTRATED AND EXPLAINED: A review of Borin Van Loon's GEODESIC DOMES As what may be the most contemporary book on geodesic domes, Borin Van Loon's GEODESIC DOMES is a welcome addition to the short list of books on the subject. Intended as a hands-on introduction to the subject, this very attractive and reasonably priced paperback includes one of the more concise and compact explanations of the fundamentals of Bucky's geodesics to be found in print. Beginning with the Platonic polyhedra, and proceeding through basic spherical trigonometry, the standard breakdowns are elegantly presented, along with chord factors for some simple cases. The great drawback of a book of this nature is the requirement to destroy the integrity of the book itself in order to enjoy the models. No doubt many will choose to photocopy the patterns (I would suggest card stock). Those who do use the original pages will benefit from the printed labels on the backside and will enjoy the color that some of the models utilize. Models A and B, each consisting of a polyhedral "core" and 4 different modules that rest on one face, are demonstrative in nature, showing the relation of various breakdowns and frequency's to the icosahedron and the octahedron. Model C is a "geodesic rotunda" consisting of a 3V dome setting atop a vertical wall or prism. Model D, described as a faceted hemisphere is a dome of the pattern of the Epcot sphere, a concave treatment of the triacon breakdown. Model E is a 2V alternate sphere (essentially a pentakis dodecahedron, one of the uniform or Archimedean polyhedra) with a "cupola" and prism base. The final model is of the buckyball, or buckminsterfullerene. A brief explanation of this recently discovered form of carbon accompanies the model. While some dome enthusiasts will question some of the authors comments about domes in the real world and knowledgeable readers will thirst for more bulk, this attractive and intelligent book is such a good value that you just might want to buy 2 copies so you can both have the book and play with the models. GEODESIC DOMES Demonstrated and explained with cut-out models by Borin Van Loon 1994 ISBN 0 906212 92 8 Tarquin Publications, Norfolk, England U.S. Price: $12.95 (or so) ----------- Charles E. Peck - P.O. BOX 47186 - WICHITA KS 67201 - 316/264-5658 author: A TAXONOMY OF FUNDAMENTAL POLYHEDRA AND TESSELLATIONS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:24:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kyle Organization: TBL, INC. Subject: Does anyone post here anymore? Everyone: Does anybody post here anymore? I am thinkng about building a geodesic dome structure from American Ingenuity. Thin shell concrete made with pre-fab triangles and riser wall. Any problems with this method? Comments? Anything of note for a prospective owner/builder that would be helpful? Any replies are appreciated. Kyle tabsltd@smartnet.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:09:50 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Does anyone post here anymore? Comments: To: Kyle > Does anybody post here anymore? I am thinkng about building a > geodesic dome structure from American Ingenuity. Thin shell concrete made > with pre-fab triangles and riser wall. Any problems with this method? > Comments? Anything of note for a prospective owner/builder that > would be helpful? Any replies are appreciated. I would like to see how the cost compares with, say, electrical conduit. I've thought about spray concrete, on a hardware cloth foundation. I'm trying to find folks interested in sharing the coat of having metal or PVC hub connectors fabricated. (I know PVC degrades in sunlight, but I plan to cover it.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:45:16 +1000 Reply-To: practopi@future.com.au Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dean Ervik Organization: Future Reality Suite 12/67-69 Alexander St. Crows Nest, NSW 2065, Sydney,Australia. Subject: Re: Does anyone post here anymore? Kyle wrote: > > Everyone: > > Does anybody post here anymore? I am thinkng about building a geodesic > dome structure from American Ingenuity. Thin shell concrete made with > pre-fab triangles and riser wall. Any problems with this method? > Comments? Anything of note for a prospective owner/builder that would > be helpful? Any replies are appreciated. > > Kyle > > tabsltd@smartnet.net If there is a fire won't you be surrounded by toxic fumes from the foam walls? Deano DownUnder mailto:practopi@future.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:16:25 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: Does anyone post here anymore? Kyle wrote: > Does anybody post here anymore? Must say, traffic was so low that I re-subscribed earlier this week, thinking that my subscription lapsed somehow. I then checked the archives and noticed that conversation has actually dried up. Well, maybe this will lubricate those rusting typing fingers : ) My brother just returned from a short business trip to the USA, visiting Boston, Florida, Chicargo etc. I asked him, opportunity permitting, to view a dome home, enquire about it, take pictures or pick up any literature from book stores for my collection. The general response he got was: "Whoo wee, those are weird things man, and plain darn ugly too." Seems that a lot of convincing still needs to be done. > Thin shell concrete made with > pre-fab triangles and riser wall. Kyle, this topic was covered quite extensively by the news group about 6 months ago, I think that you will find valuable information in the archives. Essentually no problem with the method, I have built a small geodesic dome (4m radius) using a similar technique Other contractor over here hand packs a concrete shell over an inflated former. The only problem is obtaining an aesthetically acceptable surface finish for the structure. It is difficult for a novice to shape concrete (stucco) to a uniform smooth surface, or if desired, to obtain a reasonable definition of the geodesic triangles. Elaborate scaffolding is also required to work over the top of the dome. Regards Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:13:10 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Re: Does anyone post here anymore? Comments: To: "Venter, Dawie" In-Reply-To: <4A6E7A1B1A@i1.iplan.co.za> > Kyle wrote: > > > Does anybody post here anymore? humans have the tendency to drop out if they see their contribution being compared or disregarded. is this a familiar image from top-in view of scholarly society! i would say yes, somehow intelegence like to have meddals. we need a system of encourgment, and cooporation. i would like it very much when someone says lets get smart together. tagdi by the way this news-group is for geodesic thinking and not only for geodesic domes. that means any topic which have relavance to thinking and Universe. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:57:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kyle Organization: TBL, INC. Subject: Re: Does anyone post here anymore? Dean Ervik wrote: > > Kyle wrote: > > > > Everyone: > > > > Does anybody post here anymore? I am thinkng about building a geodesic > > dome structure from American Ingenuity. Thin shell concrete made with > > pre-fab triangles and riser wall. Any problems with this method? > > Comments? Anything of note for a prospective owner/builder that would > > be helpful? Any replies are appreciated. > > > > Kyle > > > > tabsltd@smartnet.net > If there is a fire won't you be surrounded by toxic fumes from the foam > walls? > > Deano DownUnder > mailto:practopi@future.com.au Deano: No the foam type is expanded not extruded. It has no more toxicity than that of burning wood. It is manufactured by Carpenter Insulation Company in the US. It also won't support bacterial or fungus growth and provides no food value to insects. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:39:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/dome2.gif ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D3.35CEBD60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/dome2.gif ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D3.35CEBD60 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="dome2.gif at astro.uchicago.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL2FzdHJvLnVjaGljYWdvLmVkdS9jYXJhL3Z0 b3VyL3BvbGUvZG9tZS9waXgvZG9tZTIuZ2lmDQo= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D3.35CEBD60-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:44:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/dome1.gif ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D3.BFAACB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/dome1.gif ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D3.BFAACB00 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="dome1.gif at astro.uchicago.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL2FzdHJvLnVjaGljYWdvLmVkdS9jYXJhL3Z0 b3VyL3BvbGUvZG9tZS9waXgvZG9tZTEuZ2lmDQo= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D3.BFAACB00-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:48:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/doment.gif ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D4.86D79000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/doment.gif ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D4.86D79000 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="doment.gif at astro.uchicago.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL2FzdHJvLnVjaGljYWdvLmVkdS9jYXJhL3Z0 b3VyL3BvbGUvZG9tZS9waXgvZG9tZW50LmdpZg0K ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA7D4.86D79000-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 16:02:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. 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Moore" Subject: http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA80D.069FD580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA80D.069FD580 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Buckminster Fuller.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy50Y3AuY29tL35wcmltZTgvT3JiaXQv QnVja3kvDQo= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA80D.069FD580-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:47:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/seemverb.html ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA80F.2A1ADD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/seemverb.html ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA80F.2A1ADD00 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="I SEEM TO BE A VERB.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy50Y3AuY29tL35wcmltZTgvT3JiaXQv QnVja3kvc2VlbXZlcmIuaHRtbA0K ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA80F.2A1ADD00-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:33:04 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Necessity mother of invention A quote from I seem to be a verb: "Invention often occurs when individuals, frustrated by circumstances, try to transform the environment rather than to reform human nature" I think this quote is quite interesting but I also believe that you can, using Bucky as an example, come up with these solutions before they get to be a problem. Bucky called this "Anticipatory Design Science" and I think that he is absolutely correct. It is something that we all try to do but Governments are often the worst at. For example in Canada here the government wants to as a policy have more french language on the Internet. This is ridiculous because the Internet is not like television where you only have a few choices. Anyway, I think it is interesting to explore the future and technology and try to be able to see how we can benefit mankind in the future rather than today. I have read Alvin Toffler's books which have helped me try to understand the future of our systems. What does anyone think would be a reasonable approach to deal with this speculative science? bill Paton ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 08:40:56 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Danu Smith Subject: Re: http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html At 4:33 PM 9/21/96, Joe S. Moore wrote: > http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html > >Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=3D"Herpesvirus.url" > >Attachment converted: 450MG:Herpesvirus.url (????/----) (00018F69) hi joe. i've received jpeg and gif attachments etc before in my eudora email, but this time for some reason i've received your 56 attachments in a form that is unreadable, plus your 56 posts notifying of the attachments (that's 112 files in my email altogether) all are similar to the above. i never had this kind of notice either before (ie: the 2nd line above about "application/octet-stream" etc, and the "(????/----) (00018F69)"). could you or someone help me out and give me some clue as to what has gone wrong here? i've very much appreciated all your posts, bucky indexes, etc in the past, and it's frustrating now to get all this and have no idea what it all means. --danu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:40:18 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Organization: HiLINE Internet Services, Inc. Subject: DOME Version 4.6 Released Howdy all! I am pleased to announce the release today of DOME version 4.6. It is available for download at http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/index.html Some of the key new features in this version are: 1.) Class II spheres! Among other things, Class II results in a lower chord inventory than class I. 2.) POV output is now split into a .POV and a .inc file. The .inc file has all the geometry while the scene info is in POV. This has really helped in developing ray-traced images. The default image is a cloud-nine type image. 3.) Added wire-frame (indexed faceset) output to VRML. Also added a wire-frame (line) output to DXF. 4.) Added comments in the geometry files to delineate each of the polyfaces. This makes it easy to delete polyfaces that aren't needed in the design. Uses would be in making "concert shells", "gazeebos" and other such structures. 5.) Added axial and face angle data to the .DAT file output. As before, DOME is freeware under the terms of the GNU General Public License and includes full C++ source code. Please contact me if you have any questions reggarding DOME or encounter any difficulty in running it. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all of the DOME users who have provided suggestions and comments regarding the program. DOME is evolving in ways I hadn't dreamed of when I started writing it. I should note also that I have received an increasing number of requests regarding DOME in just the last two months. Perhaps this is a sign that global interest in Geodesic Domes is on the rise. Bucky would likely have called this precession. I personally think its great. Have Fun! Rick Bono ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:03:09 +1000 Reply-To: practopi@future.com.au Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dean Ervik Organization: Future Reality Suite 12/67-69 Alexander St. Crows Nest, NSW 2065, Sydney,Australia. Subject: DOME for Mac Rick Bono wrote: > > Howdy all! > > I am pleased to announce the release today of DOME version 4.6. It is available > for download at http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/index.html > > Some of the key new features in this version are: > > 1.) Class II spheres! Among other things, Class II results in a lower chord > inventory than class I. > > 2.) POV output is now split into a .POV and a .inc file. The .inc file has all > the geometry while the scene info is in POV. This has really helped in > developing ray-traced images. The default image is a cloud-nine type image. > > 3.) Added wire-frame (indexed faceset) output to VRML. Also added a wire-frame > (line) output to DXF. > > 4.) Added comments in the geometry files to delineate each of the polyfaces. > This makes it easy to delete polyfaces that aren't needed in the design. Uses > would be in making "concert shells", "gazeebos" and other such structures. > > 5.) Added axial and face angle data to the .DAT file output. > > As before, DOME is freeware under the terms of the GNU General Public License > and includes full C++ source code. Please contact me if you have any questions > reggarding DOME or encounter any difficulty in running it. > > I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all of the DOME users who have > provided suggestions and comments regarding the program. DOME is evolving in > ways I hadn't dreamed of when I started writing it. I should note also that I > have received an increasing number of requests regarding DOME in just the last > two months. Perhaps this is a sign that global interest in Geodesic Domes is on > the rise. Bucky would likely have called this precession. I personally think > its great. > > Have Fun! > > Rick Bono High I'm a keen Dome enthusiast, but unfortunately I only have a Mac (at work), will you make a Mac Version at all? Dean Ervik mailto:practopi@future.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:14:05 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Brant Subject: Joe Moore's posts I know this may appear to be a dumb question (perhaps I've missed a post that explained it all), but what has Joe Moore been forwarding to us all? I know it's a huge number of internet links, but is that what he did. . .find every link that has to do with Bucky? Please excuse my ignorance of the overall aim. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:02:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mike Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Subject: Dymaxion Car Apparently Bucky produced three of his ideal cars in a factory on the East Coast of the US before his funds ran out.. does anybody have any pictures of them they could post? Thanks. //=========================================================// // Michael N. Escobar, V.R. -or- Stagyar zil-Doggo // // Freak Cybergod Extraordinaire -or- Editor-in-Chief of // // the Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy // //=========================================================// // Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me. // // - Rage Against the Machine, "Killing in the Name" // //=========================================================// ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 06:55:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: (message from mike on Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:02:03 -0700) -From: mike -Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet - -Apparently Bucky produced three of his ideal cars in a factory on the East -Coast of the US before his funds ran out.. does anybody have any pictures -of them they could post? Thanks. - I don't have any pictures online, but the car gets very thorough treatment in J. Baldwin's new book, BuckyWorks. There's a review of it coming out in an upcoming Trimtab bulletin. Also, a side note: I wouldn't say that the Dymaxions were Bucky's "ideal" car. They were merely a good start towards what he wanted to achieve, but there was still a lot of room for growth. For example, they didn't fly, which was one of the things he was intending, eventually. :-) -- Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:16:11 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: DOME for Mac Comments: To: Dean Ervik Dean Ervik ,Internet writes: > High I'm a keen Dome enthusiast, but unfortunately > I only have a Mac (at work), will you make a Mac Version at all? > Dean Ervik > mailto:practopi@future.com.au Ditto, me (except for the "unfortunate" part... I use a Mac by preference) I'd also like to volunteer my services in compiling a Mac version using your C++ code... J. Michael Rowland 615-591-8750 voice ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:05:41 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/seemverb.html Comments: To: "Joe S. Moore" Joe... I appreciate all these bookmarks you're sending... might there be another way to do it, rather than making each one its own message, with its own heading info, etc.? Receiving them this way is noticeably more costly for me than if they were clumped in the body of a message (or two, or 20...) Don't mean to complain... just wondering. (By any chance, are you using CyberFinder to keep track of URLs?) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:44:17 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Organization: HiLINE Internet Services, Inc. Subject: Re: DOME for Mac In article <3245FDED.7D41@future.com.au>, practopi@FUTURE.COM.AU says... > >Rick Bono wrote: >> >> Howdy all! >> >> I am pleased to announce the release today of DOME version 4.6. It is >> available for download at http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/index.html >High I'm a keen Dome enthusiast, but unfortunately I only have a Mac (at >work), will you make a Mac Version at all? > >Dean Ervik >mailto:practopi@future.com.au Dean, Sorry, but I do not have access to or experience with programming on the Macintosh platform. DOME will currently run as is on DOS & Windows machines. The program comes with defines and a makefile for compilation on Unix/Linux machines. The good news is that DOME comes with all C++ source code included. I'm hoping that a Mac programmer will take up the flag and port the code. If anyone does this please share the information with the group. I'll be glad to host the program on my website for downloading purposes. Rick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:32:41 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Subject: Re: DOME for Mac At 04:16 AM 9/23/96 CDT, you wrote: >Dean Ervik ,Internet writes: >> High I'm a keen Dome enthusiast, but unfortunately >> I only have a Mac (at work), will you make a Mac Version at all? > >> Dean Ervik >> mailto:practopi@future.com.au > >Ditto, me (except for the "unfortunate" part... I use a Mac by preference) >I'd also like to volunteer my services in compiling a Mac version using your C++ >code... > >J. Michael Rowland >615-591-8750 voice > I appreciate the offer! If I can be of any help to you in porting the code let me know. Rick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:01:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/seemverb.html ---------- From: J. Michael Rowland[SMTP:jmr@MANAGEMENT21.COM] Sent: Monday, September 23, 1996 2:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list GEODESIC Subject: Re: http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/seemverb.html Joe... I appreciate all these bookmarks you're sending... might there be = another way to do it, rather than making each one its own message, with its own = heading info, etc.? Receiving them this way is noticeably more costly for me = than if they were clumped in the body of a message (or two, or 20...) Don't mean to complain... just wondering. (By any chance, are you using CyberFinder to keep track of URLs?) .- I'm using MS Internet Explorer (just learning). I'm still = experimenting-- there must be a way to combine URL references into one = email. I'll see what I can do. Were you able to click on the reference = icon and go to the referenced web page? Joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:29:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html ---------- From: Danu Smith[SMTP:danu@MONITOR.NET] Sent: Sunday, September 22, 1996 9:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list GEODESIC Subject: Re: http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html At 4:33 PM 9/21/96, Joe S. Moore wrote: > http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html > >Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=3D"Herpesvirus.url" > >Attachment converted: 450MG:Herpesvirus.url (????/----) (00018F69) hi joe. i've received jpeg and gif attachments etc before in my eudora email, but this time for some reason i've received your 56 attachments = in a form that is unreadable, plus your 56 posts notifying of the attachments (that's 112 files in my email altogether) all are similar to the above. i never had this kind of notice either before (ie: the 2nd line above = about "application/octet-stream" etc, and the "(????/----) (00018F69)"). could you or someone help me out and give me some clue as to what has = gone wrong here? i've very much appreciated all your posts, bucky indexes, = etc in the past, and it's frustrating now to get all this and have no idea = what it all means. --danu I haven't the foggiest idea. This is all new to me. I'm using = Microsoft's Internet Explorer and when I come across a web page that I = think is relevant to Bucky's work, I click on the "Send to mail = recipient" menu item and then pick the "To Geodesic list" item, and then = hit "send now". It apparently sends an email with a reference to the = attached item. I've tested it by sending a post to myself. I get an = email with an icon included and when I click on the icon, it sends my = browser to the referenced web page. Maybe you are using a browser that = can't handle that feature. Joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:39:10 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Marc Visconte <"marcus_anarcus@geocities.com, mviscont"@FREENET.VCU.EDU> Organization: Dis-Roganized, All Hail Eris! Subject: Re: Dymaxion Car SOMEBODY wrote: > -Apparently Bucky produced three of his ideal cars in a factory on > the East-Coast of the US before his funds ran out.. does anybody > have any pictures of them they could post? Thanks. Patrick Salsbury wrote: > Also, a side note: I wouldn't say that the Dymaxions were Bucky's > "ideal" car. They were merely a good start towards what he wanted > to achieve, but there was still a lot of room for growth. For > example, they didn't fly, which was one of the things he was > intending, eventually. :-) I believe that they patents for the car are available. I would love to see them to see how he coupled the output of the two engines. I can only imagine that whatever he intended, we can do much better with our abilities with control circuits today. There was (is?) as Honda put out with two in-line engines. I can understand THAT coupling. It was a real go-fast. I don't know how they were mechanically to maintain. I would think that RBF would have thought far enough ahead to make sure that the car couldl run from EiTHER engine, and that both were easy to service and without any specialized linkages. Heck, *I'd* try to build one if I thougth I had a chance. It'd be pretty cool. > Pat > Think For Yourself Not that I'm a cynic, but the Gov't wants to do that for me. I guess that's why I'm for the Libertarians. Go, Browne, Go!!! > Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) Again, not that I'm a cynic, but... The law-machinery is basically stacked against mankind. The ONLY things that last longer that radioactivity are laws. Their built tough to last long. I'm of the school that, if something is so xxxxed up that it is beyond fixing, it should be broken in such a way that it stays broke, rather than endanger other peoples' lives. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:32:03 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jack Lazariuk Subject: Re: http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html Comments: cc: "Joe S. Moore" At 10:29 AM 9/23/96, Joe S. Moore wrote: >I haven't the foggiest idea. This is all new to me. I'm using >Microsoft's Internet Explorer and when I come across a web page that I >think is relevant to Bucky's work, I click on the "Send to mail recipient" >menu item and then pick the "To Geodesic list" item, and then hit "send >now". It apparently sends an email with a reference to the attached item. >I've tested it by sending a post to myself. I get an email with an icon >included and when I click on the icon, it sends my browser to the >referenced web page. Maybe you are using a browser that can't handle that >feature. > Joe probably the best way, at least for the list, is to place all the URL's into one html text document. This should not be hard to do if you are able to create bookmarks from them. If you are interested in experimenting with someone who does not use Microsoft explorer, feel free to experiment with sending me stuff. Meantime I will experiment with ways to do what you are trying to accomplish with the software I use. Jack Lazariuk e.mail lazariukj@process.cyancorp.com The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. - Albert Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:08:39 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/seemverb.html Comments: To: "Joe S. Moore" Joe S. Moore ,Internet writes: > Were you able to click on the reference > icon and go to the referenced web page? I'm reading this in e-mail, not through a Web browser... so there are no reference icons. (Actually, I read my Internet e-mail through a UUCP gateway hooked to a FirstClass BBS. It works great, except for the fact that the gateway software itself doesn't yet support all MIME types... base64 encodes come through as text files that no amount of decoding can rectify.) I asked about CyberFinder, because it (apparently) uses a similar way to organize URLs--i.e., each one is treated as a file in the Mac OS filing system... and that's the way your posts came through to me, as separate files. > there must be a way to combine URL references into one email... I know that, in Netscape, you can collect a bunch of bookmarks and then send the bookmark file as one text message. I'm sure our friend David Christie would have some tips to add (being an employee of Netscape). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:10:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Joe Moore's posts ---------- From: Steve Brant[SMTP:TrimtabNYC@AOL.COM] Sent: Sunday, September 22, 1996 8:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list GEODESIC Subject: Joe Moore's posts I know this may appear to be a dumb question (perhaps I've missed a post = that explained it all), but what has Joe Moore been forwarding to us all? I know it's a huge number of internet links, but is that what he did. . = .find every link that has to do with Bucky? Please excuse my ignorance of the overall aim. I'm trying to get all links to web pages relevant to Bucky's work posted = to the Geodesic list archive. Sorry for the avalanche--had to do some = catching up. (All done now.) Joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:15:55 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Re: Dymaxion Car There is the complete patents online at the bfi site: http://www.bfi.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:50:52 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Francesco Ambruosi Subject: Joe Moore's URL --=====================_843594688==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As requested the URLs Joe Moore sent. Insert a link to this file in your Netscape bookmarks and go. Francesco Ambruosi civil engineer, Bari, Italy MC7267@mclink.it f.ambruosi@pangeanet.it --=====================_843594688==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="GEODESIC.HTM" 374 Flower Adenovir Asy68_33 Ateacher Buckmin1 Buckmin2 Buckmins C60 in VRML carbonna CF Gallery CPV JPEG Dome1.gif Dome2.gif Doment Dopedful Euclid Excerptf Frmagnus Galleryo Geodesic Henrycha Herpesvi Hoberman Hsmcoxet Marknewb Iseemtob Jimplank Makeadif Mammalia Martin's Maturhiv Onsubjec Papillorn Polyhed1 Polyhedr Popmovie Principl Puzzlesh Rhinovir Rotaviru Selected Shim_1p Stefansc Stellate Stellate1 Tensegr1 Tensegri Thebucky Themicke Timestar Tomlongt Truncate Uniformp Vbulatov Virtualr Virusstr --=====================_843594688==_-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:39:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html In-Reply-To: <01BBA93A.2FAEC200@kelp220.cruzio.com> (joemoore@BBS.CRUZIO.COM) ->Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=3D"Herpesvirus.url" -> ->Attachment converted: 450MG:Herpesvirus.url (????/----) (00018F69) -i never had this kind of notice either before (ie: the 2nd line above = -about -"application/octet-stream" etc, and the "(????/----) (00018F69)"). - -could you or someone help me out and give me some clue as to what has = -gone wrong here? i've very much appreciated all your posts, bucky indexes, = -etc in the past, and it's frustrating now to get all this and have no idea = -what it all means. ---danu - -I haven't the foggiest idea. This is all new to me. I'm using = -Microsoft's Internet Explorer and when I come across a web page that I = -think is relevant to Bucky's work, I click on the "Send to mail = -recipient" menu item and then pick the "To Geodesic list" item, and then = -hit "send now". It apparently sends an email with a reference to the = -attached item. I've tested it by sending a post to myself. I get an = -email with an icon included and when I click on the icon, it sends my = -browser to the referenced web page. Maybe you are using a browser that = -can't handle that feature. - -Joe - - What you're seeing is a MIME-type extentension. MIME stants for Multimedia Internet Mail Extentions. It's a way of encoding emails that contain things like graphics, programs, sound files, etc., and sending them through normal mail channels. Many more email programs are starting to use MIME, including browsers like Netscape & IE. I think Eudora also handles them, as well as exmh for unix & X-Windows. However, I would caution about assuming that everyone is using a browser to read their mail, Joe. :) While I use exmh at work, I tend to use emacs on a wyse-30 terminal quite often when I'm home. The technology curve we have is great, but it's important to remember that not everyone has the latest tools at their disposal. Many people now think that "WWW=internet", which isn't at all the case. Or that "browser=the only tool you'll ever need." There are a _LOT_ of other programs out there. (Like the new Dome version, for example... I'm looking forward to digging into that one. :-) ) $.02 Hope it helps. If you're seeing that "octet/stream" info, it means your mail program doesn't know what to do with the MIME stuff, so it's not processing it, just passing it through to you. That's what Emacs is doing for me, where exmh would try to decode it, show me the pictures, or highlight URL's for clicking. -- Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:17:26 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Danu Smith Subject: Re: http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com thanks for your clarification (below) pat. i think, joe, karl, gerald (and others), his point is a good one. i too use a netscape browser (configured for mime type) for the web, but not for email, for several good reasons. thus, when someone sends (either directly or via a list like syn-l) email to me or anyone else who doesn't use their browser for email, from a browser's email function rather than offline from an email program, we've got problems (as pat says, the "application/octet-stream" notice informs us that our mailer can't read the mime type coding, and our "attachments" folder just shows it with a generic icon and "document" type that are unreadasble). especially if you've got a bunch of urls to send, it's better to make a single booklist of them all and send that as a single email post, rather than what joe did with all the single browser url refs he recently sent from the explorer browser (takes up a lot less bandwidth all the way around also). --danu At 7:39 AM 9/24/96, Patrick Salsbury wrote: >->Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=3D3D"Herpesvirus.url" >-> >->Attachment converted: 450MG:Herpesvirus.url (????/----) (00018F69) > >-i never had this kind of notice either before (ie: the 2nd line above =3D >-about >-"application/octet-stream" etc, and the "(????/----) (00018F69)"). >- >-could you or someone help me out and give me some clue as to what has =3D >-gone wrong here? i've very much appreciated all your posts, bucky indexes,= =3D >-etc in the past, and it's frustrating now to get all this and have no idea= =3D >-what it all means. >---danu >- >-I haven't the foggiest idea. This is all new to me. I'm using =3D >-Microsoft's Internet Explorer and when I come across a web page that I =3D >-think is relevant to Bucky's work, I click on the "Send to mail =3D >-recipient" menu item and then pick the "To Geodesic list" item, and then = =3D >-hit "send now". It apparently sends an email with a reference to the =3D > >-attached item. I've tested it by sending a post to myself. I get an =3D >-email with an icon included and when I click on the icon, it sends my =3D >-browser to the referenced web page. Maybe you are using a browser that = =3D >-can't handle that feature. >- >-Joe >- >- > > What you're seeing is a MIME-type extentension. MIME stants for >Multimedia Internet Mail Extentions. It's a way of encoding emails that >contain things like graphics, programs, sound files, etc., and sending them >through normal mail channels. > > Many more email programs are starting to use MIME, including browse= rs >like Netscape & IE. I think Eudora also handles them, as well as exmh for u= nix >& X-Windows. > However, I would caution about assuming that everyone is using a >browser to read their mail, Joe. :) While I use exmh at work, I tend to use >emacs on a wyse-30 terminal quite often when I'm home. The technology curve= we >have is great, but it's important to remember that not everyone has the lat= est >tools at their disposal. > Many people now think that "WWW=3Dinternet", which isn't at all the >case. Or that "browser=3Dthe only tool you'll ever need." There are a _LOT_= of >other programs out there. (Like the new Dome version, for example... I'm >looking forward to digging into that one. :-) ) > >$.02 >Hope it helps. If you're seeing that "octet/stream" info, it means your mai= l >program doesn't know what to do with the MIME stuff, so it's not processing >it, just passing it through to you. That's what Emacs is doing for me, wher= e >exmh would try to decode it, show me the pictures, or highlight URL's for >clicking. > >-- >Pat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:02:44 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Re: Necessity mother of invention In-Reply-To: <521qf0$sjc@news.inforamp.net> Paton > Anyway, I think it is interesting to explore the future and technology and > try to be able to see how we can benefit mankind in the future rather than > today. I have read Alvin Toffler's books which have helped me try to > understand the future of our systems. Toffler in discussion thought that reading science fiction and using computer are important to adapt to the future. by the way he had an interview in wire magazine few months ago. i think that in reality the senarious are fragmented, and synergetics is islands interconecting these fragments. multi-dozen billions special cases interconected by synergey. synegery is the main factor in life, so it seems subtly, it begin long ago with tin and bronze. hold on synergy must become the beginning consideration in thinking;=, this takes practice and repetition( redundence). in reconsideration of such practice, it might be helpful to entertain dynamically few iteams of consideration in the week that relate to the phenomena synergey. to add and subtsract just as the making of alloys in the physical sciences. let one tringle of the tetarvetaxia become right tringle when ever thinking about synergetic iteams. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:26:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: <199609231834.LAA22882@geocities.com> ("marcus_anarcus@geocities.com, mviscont"@FREENET.VCU.EDU) -I believe that they patents for the car are available. I would love to -see them to see how he coupled the output of the two engines. I can only -imagine that whatever he intended, we can do much better with our -abilities with control circuits today. There was (is?) as Honda put out -with two in-line engines. I can understand THAT coupling. It was a real -go-fast. I don't know how they were mechanically to maintain. I would -think that RBF would have thought far enough ahead to make sure that the -car couldl run from EiTHER engine, and that both were easy to service and -without any specialized linkages. Heck, *I'd* try to build one if I -thougth I had a chance. It'd be pretty cool. Well, the two-jet ideas he had were for dual thrusting jet-stilts. If one of those failed, I imagine things would spiral out of control quite quickly. -> Pat -> Think For Yourself - -Not that I'm a cynic, but the Gov't wants to do that for me. I guess -that's why I'm for the Libertarians. Go, Browne, Go!!! Indeed. Harry Browne has quite the interesting platform. I just discovered him recently, and am very impressed. I think all intelligent folks should check out his website (http://www.HarryBrowne96.org/) and make their own decisions. -> Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) - -Again, not that I'm a cynic, but... -The law-machinery is basically stacked against mankind. The ONLY things -that last longer that radioactivity are laws. Their built tough to last -long. I'm of the school that, if something is so xxxxed up that it is -beyond fixing, it should be broken in such a way that it stays broke, -rather than endanger other peoples' lives. The whole topic of re-form vs. new-form is an interesting one. By my above statement, I'm not implying reform over new-form, but more the idea that, rather that assuming the Law is infallible, and stands to be broken by "bad people", it assumes that the Law is imperfect, and stands to be improved upon/repaired. :-) Pat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:31:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Oregon Dome, Inc" Subject: Re: Dymaxion Car At 02:39 PM 9/23/96 -0400, you wrote: >I believe that they patents for the car are available. I would love to >see them to see how he coupled the output of the two engines. I can only >imagine that whatever he intended, we can do much better with our >abilities with control circuits today. There was (is?) as Honda put out >with two in-line engines. I can understand THAT coupling. It was a real >go-fast. I don't know how they were mechanically to maintain. I would >think that RBF would have thought far enough ahead to make sure that the >car couldl run from EiTHER engine, and that both were easy to service and >without any specialized linkages. Heck, *I'd* try to build one if I >thougth I had a chance. It'd be pretty cool. I'm told that BMW's 750 12-cylinder is actually two in-line engines running together. If one engine quits on you, you can "limp" home on the other. Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:50:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: GEODESIC TENTS ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAAC7.229F4E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.rei.com/bin/psearch?MS-query=tent+geodesic GEODESIC TENTS FROM REI ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ewalker.com/adgear/tentrem.htm DOME TENTS BY REMINGTON --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ewalker.com/adgear/tentac.htm AMERICAN CAMPER DOME TENTS ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ewalker.com/adgear/tentob.htm DOME TENTS FROM OUTBOUND ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.llbean.com/products/outdoorgear/KE6/index.html LL BEAN GEODESIC DOME TENTS ------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.llbean.com/products/outdoorgear/WJ48-2/index.html GEODESIC TENTS -------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.athand.com/sil/athand/__037cebbe2bNCf16xmVx/Main.html DOME STRUCTURES SEARCH: COMPANIES ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAAC7.229F4E20 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Remington Tents.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2Fsa2VyLmNvbS9hZGdlYXIvdGVu dHJlbS5odG0NCg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAAC7.229F4E20 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="American Camper Tents.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2Fsa2VyLmNvbS9hZGdlYXIvdGVu dGFjLmh0bQ0K ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAAC7.229F4E20 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Outbound Tents.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2Fsa2VyLmNvbS9hZGdlYXIvdGVu dG9iLmh0bQ0K ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAAC7.229F4E20 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Dome Tent and Vestibule.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy5sbGJlYW4uY29tL3Byb2R1Y3RzL291 dGRvb3JnZWFyL0tFNi9pbmRleC5odG1sDQo= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAAC7.229F4E20 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="L.L. Bean Geodesic Backcountry Tents.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy5sbGJlYW4uY29tL3Byb2R1Y3RzL291 dGRvb3JnZWFyL1dKNDgtMi9pbmRleC5odG1sDQo= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAAC7.229F4E20 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=" From Pacific Bell.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hdGhhbmQuY29tL3NpbC9hdGhhbmQv X18wMzdjZWJiZTJiTkNmMTZ4bVZ4L01haW4uaHRtbA0K ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAAC7.229F4E20-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:35:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: ASE DOME ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAB10.5A8DF5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAB10.5A8DF5E0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:42:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Dymaxion Car Pat said: >I believe that they patents for the car are available. I would love to >see them to see how he coupled the output of the two engines. In the book "Inventions - The Patented Works Of Buckminster", the complete text and drawings of various patents are given. Concerning the engine: "The axle structure may be the same as the rear axle structure of standard automobiles." "The propelling engine..." (note the singular) "The engine is mounted is mounted with the end of its crankshaft accessible to the rear..." The transmission case is on the forward end of the engine and connected to drive the forwardly extending propeller shaft..." So, no dual engine for the car, and the patent does not mention any "flying car" options. From the text and drawings, I see a standard engine of the day, a standard transmission, a standard drive shaft, and a standard differential. Looks like the mill was a drop-in. No idea what they used, but aside from mounting everything backwards to get front-wheel drive, and moving the radiator, we could drop just about any block into the Dymaxion Car in a day or two. Who cares about the details? Bottom line, it was very radical thinking for 1933. Pick up an "old car" book, and check out what ELSE was on the road at the time. I would say that they only person who traveled in the same style as Bucky was "Buck Rogers", who was big in serialized form at the movie theaters at the time. How can one "buy-in" on a solution, but refuse to "own" the problem? james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:05:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: More stats re Synergetics on the Web Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Hit analysis report for: Synergetics on the Web http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html Compiled 09/25/96 09:46:25 PM Hits from: 04/06/96 09:29:43 AM to 09/25/96 07:14:20 AM Total hits to synhome.html: 8686 Breakout by top-level domain Ext Description Hits -------------------------------------------------------- arpa Advanced Projects Research Agency 2 at Austria 39 au Australia 152 be Belgium 33 br Brazil 57 ca Canada 296 ch Switzerland 18 cl Chile 1 co Colombia 19 com Commercial 3963 cr Costa Rica 5 cz Czech Republic 4 de Federal Republic of Germany 90 dk Denmark 10 ec Ecuador 2 edu Education 1299 ee Estonia 7 eg Arab Republic of Egypt 3 es Spain 12 fi Finland 18 fr France 30 gb Great Britain 1 gov Government 150 gr Greece 4 hk Hong Kong (Hisiangkang, Xianggang) 2 hr Croatia / Hrvatska 9 hu Hungary 12 id Indonesia 1 ie Ireland 9 il Israel 22 in India 1 is Iceland 9 it Italian Republic 31 jp Japan 212 kr Korea 9 kz Kazakhstan 1 lt Lithuania 1 lu Grand Duchy of Luxembourg 2 mil Military 44 mx United Mexican States 17 my Malaysia 19 net Network 1873 nl Netherlands 58 no Norway 26 nz New Zealand 42 org Organization 242 pe Peru 2 ph Philippines 1 pl Poland 9 pt Portuguese Republic 10 ro Romainia 1 ru Russian Federation 7 se Sweden 49 sg Singapore 30 si Slovenia 4 sk Slovakia 1 su Union of Soviet Socialist Republics 2 th Thailand 5 tw Taiwan 1 ua Ukraine 2 uk United Kingdom of Great Britain 137 us United States of America 103 uy Uruguay 7 ve Venezuela 1 za South Africa 17 Notes: Counts page request by requesting computers -- individual user IDs not captured by the server. Multiple hits by the same computer get counted. Many hits not counted in breakout which tallies only on a predefined set of domain extensions Top 10 source referring pages Hits Referring page ----------------------------------- 408 http://www.yahoo.com/Science/Mathematics/Geometry/Synergetics/ 322 http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/ 320 http://www.critpath.org/bfi/ 274 http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/mathhist/fuller.html 240 http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ 219 http://www.lsi.usp.br/usp/rod/bucky/buckminster_fuller.html 156 http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=geodesic 134 http://www.li.net/~george/pavilion.html 128 http://www.newciv.org/worldtrans/whole/bucky.html 123 http://www.pbs.org/wnet/bucky/syner.html Report code by K. Urner using MSFT VFP ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:53:58 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jack Lazariuk Subject: Re: More stats re Synergetics on the Web At 10:05 PM 9/25/96, Kirby Urner wrote: >ca Canada 296 Makes me proud to be a Canadian that our small population gained us the number one spot in viewing your well constructed web site. P.S. I don't really have any big national feeling. Jack Lazariuk e.mail lazariukj@process.cyancorp.com C.G. Jung once said "The most terrifying thing is to accept oneself completely." I wish you terror...and joy! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:04:31 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: brain storming for Fuller type of questions Comments: To: "Joe S. Moore" In-Reply-To: <01BBAAC7.2297AD00@kelp220.cruzio.com> Fuller asked quite intreging questions, somtimes in a short idea he show a very revealing aspect if life or the world. there are a lot of examples. measuring the energy used, Brazil use of alchool for transportation, the first 8 years IQ, the condition of life in the 19 century and in the 20 century-standard of living , radio influence on education, t.v influence on the post war children Artur Leob in the introduction to synergetics said that fuller was unorthodxical in picking of patterns in the world/nature. he is not conventional in reading. conservative reading would be that which doen in any descipline in any department in any university. i am not sure if what i am bringing here is of any importance. so it seems that Fuller when reading history book he would had focoused on the condition of anyman in a particular time. and not record the chapters in the same way we learn in school. i realize that this sort of questions come in a creative or leasurly time. so i just list few of them, may be others can list more. what is human being. how is Maltous ideas penetrated the indivisual what is new in the contemporary technological edcatuion in relation to humans place in society. what is the total yearly alchool used in Brazil. how many tons of paper use in a goverment office such as a libray, manucipality, or tax office. and what is the future of the smart card in relation to paper. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:30:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: FLY'S EYE MODEL ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAB8B.62F13780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HTTP://WWW.PRYSM.COM/NIGHTLIFE/FLY'SEYE.GIF ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAB8B.62F13780-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:48:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: FLY'SEYE URL Comments: To: Chuck Knight http://www.prysm.com/nightlife/Fly'sEye.GIF ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:35:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: FLY'SEYE URL Comments: To: Chuck Knight ---------- From: Joe S. Moore[SMTP:joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com] Sent: Thursday, September 26, 1996 1:48 PM To: 'Chuck Knight'; 'Geodesic List' Subject: FLY'SEYE URL http://www.prysm.com/nightlife/Fly'sEye.GIF ^^^ Should be: net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:09:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: <199609260243.WAA01088@mujibur.inmind.com> (message from James Fischer on Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:42:05 +0000) -From: James Fischer - - Pat said: - ->I believe that they patents for the car are available. I would love to ->see them to see how he coupled the output of the two engines. Actually, I responded to the person who said that. The name has gotten trimmed. - In the book "Inventions - The Patented Works Of - Buckminster", the complete text and drawings of - various patents are given. Concerning the engine: [...] - So, no dual engine for the car, and the patent does not - mention any "flying car" options. From the text and - drawings, I see a standard engine of the day, a standard - transmission, a standard drive shaft, and a standard - differential. >From BuckyWorks (p. 84): "Ultimately, it had to fly. An early version of Bucky's graph (Fig. 10-1), [Graph of accelerating human travel speed. -Pat] based on information in the Chronofile, showed that people were travelling faster and further every year--a trend that was accelerating as we become a "one-town world". If autonomous Dymaxion houses and 10-deckers could be zeppelined to almost anywhere on earth, their occupants and service crews would surely come and go by air." - Looks like the mill was a drop-in. No idea what they - used, but aside from mounting everything backwards to - get front-wheel drive, and moving the radiator, we - could drop just about any block into the Dymaxion Car - in a day or two. >From BuckyWorks (p. 97) "The 1933 Dymaxion used the same engine and drive train [a Ford V8 -Pat] as the Ford of the same year..., but was much faster and more fuel-efficient." -james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com -- Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 06:54:36 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Plydomes Comments: To: Chita Chita ,Internet writes: If you'll do a few cardboard "rehearsals" of using 4x8 plywood sheets to construct a dome, I think you might think twice: it's about the most labor intensive, materials-wasting construction methods around. There's enough scrap left over to house a small banana republic... I know this is an old thread, but I can't resist replying to it.... The original post wasn't talking about cutting plywood sheets into triangles (hence generating "waste"). The original question was about the system of overlapping 4x8 plywood sheets and fastening them together, that was documented in "The Dymaxion World..." book. Unless you define waste as having two or three layers of plywood in places, instead of a single one, there is no "waste." In fact, there is no cutting at all, except for drilling the holes. I apologize for bringing up a dead topic... I just didn't see any replies to it. jmr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:38:25 -0700 Reply-To: dc@netscape.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Christie Organization: Netscape Communications Corporation Subject: Re: syn-l: geodesic math (fwd) Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Brad Burnett wrote: > > > > I need to find a copy of the book "Geodesic Math an how to Use it", > > By Hugh Kenner. It is not available in my area. I would be glad to > > purchase a copy. Alas, I understand this book is long out of print. I lost my copy and tried to replace it by having a rare book company do a second-hand book search for it. They were unable to find a copy for me. If you find a source of this book, a copy in any condition, I would pay $$ for it. It is excellent. They did succeed in replacing my copy of Hugh Kenner's "Bucky", which I had also lost. That's a terrific book, too (at once a sympathetic portrait and critical study of Fuller). It too is out of print. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:07:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: MS PIC MAIL TEST ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAEAF.294AD320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------------------------------------------------------------------- earthfromspace.jpg -------------------------------------------------------------------- flyeyemodel.gif --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAEAF.294AD320-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:38:15 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: IDEAS and INTEGRITIES Table of Contents Here is the Table of Contents to the Book. I will post some notes periodically as I make them. IDEAS AND INTEGRITIES copyright R. Buckminster Fuller 1963 CONTENTS 1. Influences on My Work 2. Later Development of My Work 3. Margaret Fuller's Prophecy 4. The Comprehensive Man 5. I Figure 6. Fluid Geography 7. The Cumulative Nature of Wealth 8. Domes--Their Long History and Recent Developments 9. Comprehensive Designing 10. Design for Survival--Plus 11. Preview of Building 12. Total Thinking 13. Prime Design 14. The Architect as World Planner 15. World Planning 16. The Long Distance Trending in Pre-Assembly 17. The Future 18. Continuous Man 19 The Designers and the Politicians -- Bill Paton --Solutioneer bpaton@inforamp.net THE DIRECTOR'S TEMPLATE http://www.inforamp.net/~bpaton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:42:45 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: Comprehensive Designing Notes I am including some notes that I made from COMPREHENSIVE DESIGNING. I think it is interesting to note the parallels between Bucky's work and the notions of Alvin Toffler's THE THIRD WAVE. Especially in the areas of PROSUMERS (3rd wave word), and how the market is saturated and we can progress to non-exploitation of the world. I will send a copy of my condensed notes from THE THIRD WAVE. If anyone is interested in my more detailed notes they can e-mail me or it should be on the alt.books.toffler newsgroup. IDEAS AND INTEGRITIES copyright R. Buckminster Fuller 1963 9. COMPREHENSIVE DESIGNING (Notes by Bill Paton) The Comprehensive Designer emerges as the answer to the greatest problem ever addressed by mankind: how to service and feed all of Mankind. The Politician can't help this quickly. Scientists do not function in the comprehensive capacity. "There emerges the need for a new social initiative which is not another function or specialization but is an integral of the sum of the product of all specializations, that is, the Comprehensive Designer. The Comprehensive Designer is preoccupied with anticipation of all men's needs by translation of the latest inventory of their potentials. Thus he may quickly effect the upping of the performance-per-pound of the world's industrial logistics in four-fold magnitude through the institution of comprehensive redesign, incorporating all of the present scientific potentials that would otherwise be tapped only for purposes of warfaring, defensively or offensively. In view of our myriad of performance-per-pound advances of multifold degree ....typified by rubber tires....it is seen as a meager technical problem to consider advancing the over-all efficiency of worldwide industrial and service logistics fourfold (to serve one hundred percent of the population)." "The specialist in comprehensive design is an emerging synthesis of artist, inventor, mechanic, objective economist and evolutionary strategist. He bears the same relationship to society in the new interactive continuities of world-wide industrialization that the architect bore to the respective remote independencies of feudal society. " "The more people served by industrialization, the more efficient it becomes." "In contrast to the many negative factors inherent in feudalism, ...industrialism trends to 'accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative,' first by measuring Nature and converting the principles discovered in the measurements to mastery and anticipation of the vagaries....Productive continuities may be maintained and forwardly scheduled. There are three fundamental constituents of industry; all are positive." POSITIVE CONSTITUENTS OF INDUSTRY 1) All known substances cannot be worn out. 2) Cosmic energy cannot be exhausted. 3) Knowledge is always increasing. The all-positive principle of industry paradoxically is being assimilated by man only through emergent expedients, and only in emergency because of his preponderant fixation in the direction of tradition (emergence through emergency). Backing up into the future, man romantically appraises the emergent dorsal sensations in the negatively parroted terms of his ancestors' misadventures. The essence of the principle of industry is the principle of Synergy. This principle is manifested both in the inorganic and organic. The alloying of chrome and nickel and steel provides greater tensile strength than its elements singly or in proportional addition. Three or more persons by specialized teamwork can do work far in excess of that of three independent people. The industrial chain's strength is stronger than its weakest links. Man is doing more with less (Ephemeralization which is a corollary of the principle of Synergy) and is also demonstrating certain other visible trends of an epochal nature: an increase in literacy; more advanced study by more people; as he becomes master of the machine he graduates from labourer to research and development technicians, or production-inaugurated engineering, or education and recreation extension. While man trends to increasing specialized function in anticipatory and positive occupations of production, he also trends to comprehensive function as consumer. Because the principle of industry improves as the number of people it serves is increased, it also improves in terms of the increase of the number of functions of the individual to which it is applied. It also improves in terms of its accelerated use. Throughout the history of industrialization, the specialist has been encouraged, and the inherently comprehensive-thinking artist has been alienated economically. The exploiters, successfully successful, have tried in vain to freeze the dynamic expansion at the particular phase of wealth generation they monopolize. Every industrial success of man has been built on a foundation of vindictive denouncement of the founders. Thus the comprehending artist has learned to restrain his heretical forward-thinking. How great and exultant their secret conceptioning must have been ! THE TIME HAS COME for the artist to come out from behind his protective colouring of adopted abstractions and indirections, World society, frustrated in its reliance upon the leaders of might, is ready to be about-faced to step wide-eyed into the obvious advantaging of its trending. We will soon see the emergence of comprehensive training for specialists in the husbandry of specialists and the harvesting of the infinite commonwealth. The Comprehensive Designer will be accepted by the industrial authority because it has recently shifted from major preoccupation of exploiting original resource to preoccupation with keeping the "wheels," which they manage, turning. Severe acceleration in the trend of performance per pound of invested material now characterizes all world-industry. World-industrial management will be progressively dependent upon the Comprehensive Designer to accelerate the turning of his wheels by design acceleration. The designer will be accepted by Political leadership because they intend to up the standard of living of all world peoples by "converting the high technical potential to account through design." Only the designer can accomplish this objective. As first of first things, the designer must provide new and advanced standards of living for all peoples of the world. Housing must be developed to provide for man's increasing transience, interconnecting every center of the world and penetrating even the remotest of geography. Implicit is man's emancipation from indebtedness to all else but intellect. -- Bill Paton --Solutioneer bpaton@inforamp.net THE DIRECTOR'S TEMPLATE http://www.inforamp.net/~bpaton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:46:15 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bill paton Organization: bp ent. Subject: 3rd Wave notes THE THIRD WAVE BY ALVIN TOFFLER Copyright 1980 Notes by Bill Paton 1996. If we are to prepare for the Future, we should understand the Changes taking place and what the future might hold. The emerging 3rd wave civilization is coherent and workable in ecological, economic and democrating terms. However, the transition will be marked by extreme social disruption, wild economic swings, sectional clashes, secessionist attempts, technological disasters, political turbulence, violence, and threats of war. 1st Wave of Change: Agriculturalism (8,000 AD +) 2nd Wave of Change: Industrialization (1750-1950+) 3rd Wave of Change: Informationalization (1950++) The Second Wave (Industrialization) has several principles that made its unique design: 1.STANDARDIZATION: Identical products, Govt. Standards 2.SPECIALIZATION: of jobs, of scientists, technologists, awareness. 3.SYNCHRONIZATION: Punctuality, clock work, media. 4.CONCENTRATION: Urban centres, huge factories, Giant Corporations. 5.MAXIMIZATION: Big means efficient, Growth important even if shortsighted. 6.CENTRALIZATION: Centralizing of Power, banking, government. The Third Wave has different PRINCIPLES which contrast the Second Wave Models: 1. CUSTOMIZATION: Unique Products, Personalization, Differentiation of People. 2. GENERALIZATION: Global awareness, General System approach, Multiple disciplines. 3. DE-MASSIFICATION: Time shifting, de-massified media, smaller markets. 4. DIVERSIFICATION: Telecommuting, Uniqueness, World economy. 5. APPROPRIATE SCALE: Appropriate Scale technology, companies. 6. DECENTRALIZATION: Decentralizing Power, banks, power shifting. -2nd Wave improved standards of living and length of life. But we need 3rd Wave because: 1) We have reached a turning point in our war against nature. 2) We can no longer rely on non-renewable energy. 3) Our value system is in crisis. We need a Positive policy for managing transition to a 3rd wave future that realizes: 1)Eco-sphere is fragile, new technologies must be screened to avoid harming it more. 2) Require democratization of technological and Governmental decision-making. -Technology need not be big, costly or complex in order to be "sophisticated". -2nd wave technology seems efficient because pollution costs, looking after employment etc. have been passed on to public. -Favour "appropriate technologies" intended to provide humane jobs, avoid pollution, spare the environment and to produce for personal or local use rather than for national and global marketing alone. -Wide recycling, cheap construction, simple transport experiments. -Some combine latest materials and combine them with old technolgies. Four related industries are likely to become the backbone industries of the 3rd wave era, bringing with them major shifts of economic power and social and political alignments: 1) Electronics and computers. Sustainable Energy 2) Space industry: Satellites, cell phones, etc.. 3) The Sea: Aquaculture, mining, aqua villages 4) Biological Industries: Genetics, future of evolution itself. These are potentially hazardous technologies (biological version of 3 mile island could make AIDS seem like a joke). Bringing 4 technologies together will release a flood of innovation unlike any seen before in human history. Basic questions asked before of technology was do they contribute to economic gain or military clout. Now we must have stiffer tests- ecological and social as well as economic and strategic. -De-massified Mass media. New inforsphere is emerging will change our personal one and it de-massified our minds as well. Computers and Technology enhance our mind power as 2nd wave enhanced our muscle power. Will help all of us to think more deeply about ourselves and the world. Computers can help synthesize all this and deepen culture's views of causality and synthesize meaningful wholes. General Systems Theory will be important to this end. The Third Wave social memory is both extensive and active. This combination will prove to be propulsive. Activating this newly expanded memory will unleash fresh cultural energies. It makes possible a whole flood of new ideas, theories, ideologies and accelerates historic change and fuels the thrust towards 3rd wave social diversity. Newfound pressures on the corporation: 1) Environmental, 2) Societal, 3) Informational-access to information 3) Moral. These are now all part of "Production", marketing etc. Multiple bottom lines all interconnected and accountable with newly created systems of judging and goals. Social scientists, Societal accounting. New Societal Rules. New rhythms and a shift in time perception. -Attack on Standardization-Customization- all this leads to a profusion of lifestyle and more highly individualized personalities. This will create its own problems and confusions. -Attempts to achieve uniformity-like standardization of education are essentially rear-guard actions of a spent civilization. -De-centralization-neighbourhooding. Decentralized banking and economic managements. -reduced centralized control of government and also business from head office. New leadership forms; matrix organization. Workers have many tasks. -All this creates whole new society, making yesterday's rules obsolete. Appropriate scale technolgy -meshing of both big and small is ideal. One of 2nd wave's rules was "Specialize to succeed" now is changing- emerging generalists. -3rd wave organizations-small components linked together in temporary configurations. Adaptability. Rise of Prosumer -reintegration of the consumer into production will force us to look far more closely at interrelations. Prosumer will change role of market and future of civilization. They are changing the whole sociosphere. Their concern for environmentalism and naturalism is creating the need for enviro-products. People are working hard, passionately, but maybe not at work. They are committed to a project or homework. Economics will have to take that into account. They will have to rethink things. People are choosing whether it is more productive (and fulfilling) for them to do it themselves rather than work to get money to pay someone else to do it. What is unemployment now? The second wave marketized the entire world by: 1) Getting new populations to enter the marketplace: to produce more, prosume less. They became dependent and tied to it. Integration into the market was progressive while self-sufficiency was backwards. It promoted materialism and money motivation. 2) Commoditization of life-goods and services designed FOR the market. 3) Increasing the amount of steps from producer to consumer. Now the world is essentially completely marketized, it will no longer be the central project of civilisation. The 3rd wave will produce history's 1st "Trans-market" civilisation. Third Wave thinking will accept that Change is the Normal state of things. Second Wave culture emphasized study of things in isolation from one another. Third Wave culture emphasizes contexts, relationships and wholeness (General Systems Theory). A revolt against overspecialization towards interdisciplinary thinking combined with looking at the whole and individual parts. Second wave gave us comfortable assurance that we knew what caused things to happen. Every phenomenon occupied a unique, determined location in time and space. Same conditions always produced same results. Chaos theory and reevaluating ideas of order, chance, necessity and causality. Change is seen as the norm. This new culture is oriented to change and growing diversity. POLITICS AND ECONOMY Nation states are pressured from above and below. Global Economy: Growth of regional economies and new global economy dominated by transnationals no single nation can regulate. Their ideologies are that nationalism is obsolete. An emerging planetary consciousness shared by environmentalists and money people. Next decades will be a struggle of newly created global institutions capable of fairly representing prenational as well as postnational peoples of the world. Third Wave civilization has many features which resemble 1st wave decentralized production, appropriate scale, renewable energy, de-urbanization, work in home, high levels of prosumption, to name a few. We will be combining elements of the past with the future to make a new present. Energy will be decentralized and renewable. Less fertilizers will be required-better crops, controlled release pesticides. The third wave civilization will draw on an amazing variety of energy sources. A shift to a society based on self-sustainable, renewable energy. A Diversified technological base which will be more small scale, simple to operate systems. The most basic raw material-that can never be exhausted-is information. Restructuring education, redefining scientific research, and reorganization of communication media will be priorities. Work, even factory work, will be more humane, smaller scale. Workers will be capable of discretion and resourcefulness rather than rote response. Education will have to work on these skills. Society built around a network rather than a hierarchy of standard bureaucracy, which will be gone. Hierarchies will be flatter and more transient. It is a positive, realistically attainable future. It makes allowance for individual differences, embraces racial, regional, religious and subcultural variety. Built in considerable measure around the home. It will be pulsing with innovation, yet provide enclaves of relative stability for those who need it. Potentially democratic and humane, in better balance with the biosphere, and no longer dependent of exploitive subsidies. To create a fulfilling emotional life and a sane psychosphere for the emerging civilization of tomorrow, we must recognize three basic individual requirements: 1)needs for community, and connectiveness with others 2), structure. Time, work, fixed points of reference. 3)meaning. We need to study the structure of modern societies; schools, businesses, and how they are changing under The Third Wave. Worth examining meaning and structure providing institutions-even cults. A sensible society should provide a spectrum of institutions ranging from free-form to highly structured. Certain groupings such as vegetarians and others might be encouraged to form communities in which moderate to high structure is imposed on those who wish to live that way. We need to integrate personal meaning with a larger, more encompassing world view. They must understand their own small contribution and also how they fit into the larger scheme of things. Meaning, Structure, and Community are interrelated preconditions for a liveable future. As we change the deep structure of society, we also modify people. In any culture, there are widely shared traits that make up the social character. We can look at the traits most likely to be valued in the civilization of tomorrow to discover that personality. WORK: Work will be less repetitive and less fragmented with each person doing a somewhat larger, rather than smaller, task. Workers will face frequently changing tasks. Therefore, workers will be required to accept responsibility, understand how their work dovetails with others, can handle ever larger tasks, adapt swiftly to changed circumstances, and who are sensitively tuned to the people around them. They will want a sense of fulfillment in work and be able to tailor their benifits packages. They will balance work more with the rest of their lives. They will have multiple objectives in work. There will be various matrix style authority at work. Workers will question authority, exercise discretion, be morally responsive and responsible. Prosumption will promote self-reliance, adaptability and ability. Versatility and balance will be key. Firsthand contact with things and people. Handwork will be respectable again. Objective subjectivity and Subjective objectivity will be pronounced. The de-massification of the media will have people aware of their self-image, people will demand to be treated as individuals. We will become producers of our own self-imagery-to project our image to the world; the technology of conciousness. THE PRINCIPLES OF THIRD WAVE GOVERNMENT INCLUDE: 1)minority power, individualized power. 2)more direct citizen roles 3) putting decisions where they belong, which helps political paralysis. 4) Long term planning. We need to get rid of the notion that increased diversity automatically brings increased tension and conflict in society. In fact, the reverse can be true. If everyone has different goals, they will be more willing to cooperate and form symbiotic relationships. It is the lack of representation and appropriate political systems that cause dissent. We need to empower the people, and minorities. The forces of the Third Wave favour a democracy of shared minority power; they are prepared to experiment with more direct democracy; they favour both transnationalism and a fundamental devolution of power. They call for a crack-up of the giant bureaucracies. They demand a renewable and less centralized energy system. They want to legitimize options to the nuclear family. They fight for less standardization, more individualization in the schools. They place a high priority in environmental problems. They recognize the necessity to restructure the world economy on a more balanced and just basis. They are suspicious of all politicals and parties and feel that decisionmaking is not possible within the current system. Each of us play a role in this which can be either destructive or creative. We need to first acknowledge that the system needs changing. We need to see long-term and be creative. Never before have we had such a well-educated society, armed with an incredible range of knowledge. Never before have we had such a global view. This collective imagination can be tapped to design alternative political institutions based on minority power, semi-direct democracy, and decision division. -- Bill Paton --Solutioneer bpaton@inforamp.net THE DIRECTOR'S TEMPLATE http://www.inforamp.net/~bpaton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:42:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: http://www.tdrinc.com/ultima.html This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BBAF07.7BBAEB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The "Ultima" Tower, Two-mile High Sky City ------=_NextPart_000_01BBAF07.7BBAEB60 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="The Ultima Tower, Two-mile High Sky City.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: The Ultima Tower, Two-mile High Sky City (Internet Shortcut) Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="The Ultima Tower, Two-mile High Sky City.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.tdrinc.com/ultima.html ------=_NextPart_000_01BBAF07.7BBAEB60-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:45:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. 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