From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Sep 12 19:36:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g8CNaPL2012744 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:36:25 -0400 Message-Id: <200209122336.g8CNaPL2012744@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 14127 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 23:28:56 -0000 Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 23:28:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:28:56 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9702" To: Chris Fearnley Content-Length: 258378 Lines: 5626 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:00:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Sat Feb 1 00:00:03 PST 1997. If you are tired of receiving this message twice per month, and are reading bit.listserv.fnord-l through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. (And you don't want to look like a jerk having everyone see your "SUB GEODESIC John Q. Public" command! ;^) ) This list is also linked to USENET in the group bit.listserv.geodesic If you want to receive copies of everything you send to the list, use the command SET GEODESIC REPRO. If you DON'T want copies, use SET GEODESIC NOREPRO. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC You should receive a confirmation note in the mail when you have been successfully removed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:51:39 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: MBatchelor Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Dome tour Hello All! I just found this newsgroup and saw a message about a tour available of existing dome structures. I thought it said homes were a part of this tour. I would appreciate it if anyone with information on this tour would post it here in the newsgroup and / or to me personally at mbatchelor@aol.com or mmb@meyerinst.com Thank you for your attention. Matthew M. Batchelor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:18:36 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU Subject: Re: Dome tour Natural Spaces of North Branch Minnesota host a tour of dome homes twice a year in the St. Paul area. They have about 15 dome owners open their homes for this event. For more information call 800- 733-7107. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:55:41 MST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jan Allbright Subject: Re: 100 frequency sphere In-Reply-To: <32b48159.17799850@news.hiline.net>; from "rjbono@HILINE.NET" at Dec 15, 96 10:57 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Message/rfc822 Does anyone have the POV files in question??? -- /-------------------------------+---------------------------------\ | Mr. Jan C. Allbright | Hewlett-Packard Company | | Regional Sales Engineer | 5070 Centennial Blvd | | NetMetrix Division | Colorado Springs, CO | | Jan_Allbright@hp.com | 719/531-4316 | \-----------------(Opinions Expressed Are My Own)-----------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:31:05 -0800 Reply-To: aagdii@dds.nl Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: aagdii Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht, (ACCU) Subject: wealth, just dreaming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just speculation: someone a while ago mentioned that 2% own 90% of everything in america; i like to think that they also get 90% wealth generated every year. some one can correct this. le us assume the above is correct, and let us assume that 1 billion dollar can fill a 5 meter cubic room of 100 dollar billis- this needs better calculation. this means the 4 trillion dollar that america is generated will fill 4000 of such rooms. 2% of that is 80 billion dollars, this will fill 80 rooms. 4000 - 80 =3920 rooms of 5 cubic meter dollar. so: the american people get 80 rooms full of dollars and the 2% rich get 3920 romms full of dollars i think what i am calculating is rong, but quite possibly is correct with assets- i would like to see correction, if this is rong. one calculate the percentage assets which were 6 trillion in 1970. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:24:02 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: danu@MONITOR.NET Subject: Weaving the Waking Dream: Haiku 20-23 Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ Haiku: Weaving the Waking Dream ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ \\\\\\///////\\\\\/////// World Knot Dream Wave Wave Dream Knot World \\\\\\///////\\\\\/////// =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D&=3D A knot in the string, or is it not in the string; - is string in the knot? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D=3D&=3D=3D&=3D <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>><<<<<<< Are waves in water or is water in the wave.. -or, not in the wave? %%%%%%%&&&&&&&&%%%%%%&&&&&&&&%%%%%%%%%&&&&& <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>><<<<<<< Awake while we dream or dreaming while we're awake... - a wake in water? <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>><<<<<<< =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D////////=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D\\\\\\\\\=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mind is in the world but is not world in the mind? Mind ye not the world? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D////////=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D\\\\\\\\\=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 4 Haiku 4/by Danu from 'A Solipsist's Dream' ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:28:13 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: jack lydick Organization: $ Subject: dome tour Oregon Dome Inc. is having a nationwide tour of domes this spring. There will be dome dealers participating throughout the country, with many domes open to the public. For info email to domeking@nauticom.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:56:26 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Alan Douglas Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department. Subject: Dymaxion Map ? I know I saw it...I'm sure I did ? Do any of you kind people know I can order a puzzle (wood ?) of the Dymaxion map projection, which allows you to reconstruct the Earth starting at any point? I'm sure I came across an advert for one on the www. I re-searched the Fuller institute home page but failed to find the advert I remember. It's not a false memory I'm sure ?????? Many thanks in advance ============================================================================== = alan douglas Msc9708@ossian.geo.ed.ac.uk ==================It's just a great big spinning ball of dirt=================== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 13:57:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: Dymaxion Map ?, and discontinous learning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, if only we can learn how to jump from one area of learnign to another; intutivly seemsto be possbible; then we can keep up with hundreds of event searches with ease. Fuller must had the intution of a child, who go after the topic of intrest--i hope soon i have somthing to say about how can that be possible. to go back to Dymaxion Map. i found that you can learn how do darw the map from memory, but of course you need paractice. here is how it is doen in part, you finish the rest. draw 2 f tringle with base in the bottom, revers and draw a second 2f crossing the first in the midedges. .-----.------. a b c so the t ringle in the top are alphapatic .--------. 1 2 3 4 in the botom numerical. .-----.------. you can finish numbering them; then, you take each tringle and see what continent fit in it, by darwing it and remembring what tringle its in. for example africa fit in 1,b,c; and india south A, and china in 2,3 ect. check it to be precise; tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:10:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: geodesic domes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from Utopia or Oblivion, epilogue page 353: 2000 feet double tringulating area geodesic dome Marines air-delivered from aircraft carriers to the land, fully skinned and ready to occupy, also transported t 60 miles per hour. domed-over cities have extraorinary economic advantag. a two mile dimeter dome has been calculated to cover mid-Manhattan Island , spanning west to east at 42 street from Hudon river to east river, and spanning suth to north form 22nd street to 62nd street. the dome surface is only 1/85 of the total area of the buildings which it sould cover reducing the energy loses to 1/85 of present energy cost oviating snow removals. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 17:04:47 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Dymaxion Map ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See the map links at my web site: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinlsMapping.htm Pacific Puzzle Company - Dymaxion World Puzzle (wood; Ian Woofenden) **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Alan Douglas > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Dymaxion Map ? > Date: Friday, February 07, 1997 12:56 AM > > I know I saw it...I'm sure I did ? > > Do any of you kind people know I can order a puzzle (wood ?) of the Dymaxion > map projection, which allows you to reconstruct the Earth starting at any > point? > > I'm sure I came across an advert for one on the www. I re-searched the Fuller > institute home page but failed to find the advert I remember. It's not a false > memory I'm sure ?????? > > Many thanks in advance > > ========================================================================== ==== > = > alan douglas > Msc9708@ossian.geo.ed.ac.uk > > ==================It's just a great big spinning ball of > dirt=================== > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 20:25:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Claudio Ardohain Organization: Nodo CA - Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA Subject: SYNERGETICS Hello, I'm new in the list. I investigate about Form in Nature, Science and Art, particularly applied to Architecture. Has anybody know where I can order the book Synergetics by B. Fuller? And Aspects of Form by Lancelot Law Whyte? Thanks Claudio Ardohain Sarmiento 1371 - 2o 211 (1041) Buenos Aires - Argentina E-mail: ARGEOB@CA.WAMANI.APC.ORG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:53:06 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Where can I get a small model dome kit? Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruce, Look in my links section under domes, models: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksDomesModels.htm **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Bruce M Ward > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Where can I get a small model dome kit? > Date: Monday, January 13, 1997 8:04 PM > > In article , rburns@netcom.com (Randall J. > Burns) wrote: > > > I want to get a 2-4 foot diameter model dome kit. Any > > suggestions where I can procure such a thing? > > Thanks! > > RJB > > Write to: > Buckminster Fuller Institute > 2040 Alameda Padre Serra, #224 > Santa Barbara, CA. 93103 > > and ask for a catalog > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:56:27 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: syn-l: MY WEB SITE Comments: To: as@gestaltung.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andreas, Thanks! Sorry for not replying sooner. I've been working pretty hard on my web pages. (See address below.) **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: as@gestaltung.com > To: joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > Subject: Re: syn-l: MY WEB SITE > Date: Sunday, January 12, 1997 4:10 AM > > thanks a lot for your detailed web site! > great work! > > > > andreas schneider > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:57:29 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: syn-l: How many dimples on a Golf Ball? Comments: To: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC1680.6CE80060" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC1680.6CE80060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: John H. Fisher > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Subject: syn-l: How many dimples on a Golf Ball? > Date: Saturday, January 11, 1997 4:51 PM > > Attached is a video capture of a golf ball off the local news. I always > thought the dimples were miraculously spaced evenly so the ball would fly > evenly. I notice in this picture that there is a pattern resembling a high > frequency icosahedron. So I wonder how many dimples there are and how are > they spaced. Just curious. > > Regards, > John > > =============================== > Email: jhfisher@worldnet.att.net > Web: http://www.ccsi.com/~jhfisher > =============================== > > > ------=_NextPart_000_01BC1680.6CE80060 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="golf.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: golf.jpg (JPEG Image) Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="golf.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgEASABIAAD/7RGkUGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNA+0AAAAAABAASAAAAAEA AQBIAAAAAQABOEJJTQPzAAAAAAAIAAAAAAAAAAA4QklNBAoAAAAAAAEAADhCSU0nEAAAAAAACgAB AAAAAAAAAAI4QklNA/UAAAAAAEgAL2ZmAAEAbGZmAAYAAAAAAAEAL2ZmAAEAoZmaAAYAAAAAAAEA MgAAAAEAWgAAAAYAAAAAAAEANQAAAAEALQAAAAYAAAAAAAE4QklNA/gAAAAAAHAAAP////////// //////////////////8D6AAAAAD/////////////////////////////A+gAAAAA//////////// /////////////////wPoAAAAAP////////////////////////////8D6AAAOEJJTQQIAAAAAAAQ AAAAAQAAAkAAAAJAAAAAADhCSU0ECQAAAAAQNAAAAAEAAACAAAAAbAAAAYAAAKIAAAAQGAAYAAH/ 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Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: danu@MONITOR.NET Subject: Joe Moore's HOME page Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable just saw your home page again joe; i like the 9 BF pics, especially the snyder one; you might want to put them in 2 rows (people hate to scroll, ESPECIALLY sideways). In order make your table of pictures into two rows you will have to go in to the html code and insert a in front of the first picture of the second row. (it should read on that row). also, the heading text should be condensed (less dots, possibly smaller) 'cause the words "with" and/or "less" don't fit on one line and get broken up with letters pushed off to a next line (and i have a 17 in. monitor!). Also insert a
after "less" in order to push Buckminster Fuller to a separate line. also, the link for 'selected ideas' doesn't change color after it's followed= . the 'energy' haves' and needs' picts are a good size in themselves but online they are blown way up to fill a huge screen and thus are also jagged-edged. The MicroSoft Front Page must be inserting size commands too large for the screen. For instance on the pictures you have to go in to the html commands and remove the size and width amount commands. It looks like MicroSoft Front Page needs a lot of tweaking to make it look right. Most of these web page design software products are like that. --danu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:03:26 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Shon Lenzo Subject: Re: Golf Ball? In-Reply-To: <9702091201.aa04558@inside.cruzio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello- I feel that the answer to your question "How many dimples on a golf ball" has been within yous grasp the entire time. No need for any complex formulatons here- Simple take a permanent marker and mark them off one by one as you count them!!!! -Down to eath, -Shon >> Subject: syn-l: How many dimples on a Golf Ball? >> Date: Saturday, January 11, 1997 4:51 PM >> >> Attached is a video capture of a golf ball off the local news. I always >> thought the dimples were miraculously spaced evenly so the ball would >fly >> evenly. I notice in this picture that there is a pattern resembling a >high >> frequency icosahedron. So I wonder how many dimples there are and how >are >> they spaced. Just curious. >> >> Regards, >> John >> >> =============================== >> Email: jhfisher@worldnet.att.net >> Web: http://www.ccsi.com/~jhfisher >> =============================== >> >> >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\golf.jpg" > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:13:39 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Joe Moore's HOME page Comments: cc: SYNERGETICS _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Danu, Thanks for checking out my web pages. I really appreciate the feedback. Sorry for not responding to my email sooner. I've been spending a lot of time working on my web pages. On another topic, my glossary is a compilation of only the PUBLISHED glossaries in various Bucky books. There's a lot of books by and about Bucky that don't have glossaries. Hopefully some day someone will produce such glossaries. In the meantime, I encourage you to start building your own glossary which could supplement what's already on the web. (I've noted at least one other already.) You guys are doing a great job on the Synergetics list. It's hard to keep up with all the posts, though. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- From: danu@MONITOR.NET To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Joe Moore's HOME page Date: Sunday, February 09, 1997 2:18 PM just saw your home page again joe; i like the 9 BF pics, especially the snyder one; you might want to put them in 2 rows (people hate to scroll, ESPECIALLY sideways). In order make your table of pictures into two rows you will have to go in to the html code and insert a in front of the first picture of the second row. (it should read on that row). also, the heading text should be condensed (less dots, possibly smaller) 'cause the words "with" and/or "less" don't fit on one line and get broken up with letters pushed off to a next line (and i have a 17 in. monitor!). Also insert a
after "less" in order to push Buckminster Fuller to a separate line. also, the link for 'selected ideas' doesn't change color after it's followed. the 'energy' haves' and needs' picts are a good size in themselves but online they are blown way up to fill a huge screen and thus are also jagged-edged. The MicroSoft Front Page must be inserting size commands too large for the screen. For instance on the pictures you have to go in to the html commands and remove the size and width amount commands. It looks like MicroSoft Front Page needs a lot of tweaking to make it look right. Most of these web page design software products are like that. --danu .- ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 22:23:02 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Subject: Re: Fw: syn-l: How many dimples on a Golf Ball? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:57 AM 2/9/97 -0800, you wrote: > >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: John H. Fisher >> To: synergetics-l@teleport.com >> Subject: syn-l: How many dimples on a Golf Ball? >> Date: Saturday, January 11, 1997 4:51 PM >> >> Attached is a video capture of a golf ball off the local news. I always >> thought the dimples were miraculously spaced evenly so the ball would >fly >> evenly. I notice in this picture that there is a pattern resembling a >high >> frequency icosahedron. So I wonder how many dimples there are and how >are >> they spaced. Just curious. >> >> Regards, >> John >> >> =============================== >> Email: jhfisher@worldnet.att.net >> Web: http://www.ccsi.com/~jhfisher >> =============================== >> >> >> >Attachment Converted: "c:\cris\mail hiline\attach\golf1.jpg" > FYI This Month's Scientific American covered golf balls and the types of dimple arrangements used to reduce drag in the Mathematical Recreation column. Rick "Fore!" Bono ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:23:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: NEW DOME MANUFACTURER Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Structural Visions, Florence, OR http://www.touroregon.com/GeodesicDomeStructures.html **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:33:25 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "David K. Bryant" Organization: Netcom On-Line Services Subject: Re: Fw: syn-l: How many dimples on a Golf Ball? Rick Bono writes: >>> Attached is a video capture of a golf ball off the local news. I always >>> thought the dimples were miraculously spaced evenly so the ball would >>fly >>> evenly. I notice in this picture that there is a pattern resembling a >>high >>> frequency icosahedron. So I wonder how many dimples there are and how >>are >>> they spaced. Just curious. >>> >This Month's Scientific American covered golf balls and the types of dimple >arrangements used to reduce drag in the Mathematical Recreation column. That's nice. So how many dimples does a golf ball have? The one time I counted one it was either 331 or 333. It's been a long time ago. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:57:57 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Subject: Re: Fw: syn-l: How many dimples on a Golf Ball? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:33 AM 2/10/97 GMT, you wrote: >Rick Bono writes: > >>>> Attached is a video capture of a golf ball off the local news. I always >>>> thought the dimples were miraculously spaced evenly so the ball would >>>fly >>>> evenly. I notice in this picture that there is a pattern resembling a >>>high >>>> frequency icosahedron. So I wonder how many dimples there are and how >>>are >>>> they spaced. Just curious. >>>> > >>This Month's Scientific American covered golf balls and the types of dimple >>arrangements used to reduce drag in the Mathematical Recreation column. > > >That's nice. So how many dimples does a golf ball have? > >The one time I counted one it was either 331 or 333. >It's been a long time ago. > > I don't Have the Sci-Am article handy. According to the article the number is: ...well it depends on manufacturer and the geometry scheme used. The article talks about distributions based on the icosa and the octa as well as variants. All provide different number of dimples. It is apparently a tricky problem due to the molding seam (needs a natural equator) and the drag reduction purposes. Rick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 02:06:24 -0800 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services Subject: City in the Clouds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've had a long term interest in super-large air/thermal ships as per Bucky's ideas. Is there anyone out there seriously interested in this or actually working on this type of thing. Not only could "cities" be possible with existing technology, but also super-size transporters (say 1km in diameter). Consider these two thoughts -1. Star Wars City in the Clouds (where Luke Skywalker lost his hand - interesting that Lucius Scaevola(Roman/Carthage history) lost his hand also) is what we are talking about - 2. the alien ships that burnt the cities in ID4 would not have had a problem at that size (15 miles in diameter) in keeping up in the air, but instead would have had trouble keeping near the ground -they would float in the atmosphere. Regards John ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:24:57 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Fw: syn-l: How many dimples on a Golf Ball? John H. Fisher writes: > I notice in this picture that there is a pattern resembling a > high frequency icosahedron. The pattern of dimples would necessarily resemble that of a high-frequency icosahedron in order to achieve "closest packing," would it not? I tried this out in a styrofoam cup model this weekend. The cost of the cups is negligible, but the hot glue is eating me up :-) I failed to think in the proper number of symmetries and so I fouled up the patterns of holes (and made a sphere that looks like it's been sat on), but even so, it's easy to see places where a five-sided gap naturally arises so that the stacked cups can curve back in on themselves to make a sphere. This thing looks somewhat like a giant golf ball (if you squint your eyes at it and make a wish). jmr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:31:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: City in the Clouds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit drr Jhonnnnnnnnnnn QUITE INTERESTING-- YOU ARE REALY GOING BIG, the last chapter in Utopia or Oblivion talks about N.Y city coveing it up. 2 miles i think-diameter; quick putting together -3 months or so. modual putting the pieces, i forgot how. i am very retirded intelgent wise, but here is an idea to keep you going. use questions of relationship, go after the netgrity operational staff; your question is purly operative that will lead to great theroitical staff, leanring as you go discontinuse learning, skiping what is trivial. the first question is where i start. i thought i share this with you, may be you already know all of this, so far i have been reading person, hopefuly i go operational good luck. tAgdi helicopter a versitalie instrument, but what i forgot the rest oh the moon, nonsimulatanious crossing of images, and what that has to do with this hat on the table, i need glue, pieces of wood, transister and ect, but in the end star wars floateing riminds me of earth as ballon circuling the sun eliptically mussically consideing with other eliptical orbit of 30 some settlets.......... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:17:42 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: new kind of questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what punctuation IS doing to speed reading what this has to do with that what exclusion principles Doing to electron shells what Multinational companies doing to the world what is a rose doing to the world what building commision doing to housing what the jet doing to man what is man doing to earth what system thinking doing to man. tAGDI ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 00:29:30 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Golf Ball? I've been looking at golf balls for some time with an eye toward the patterns on them. Quite a variety. This month's SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN has a column by Ian Stewart on exactly that subject, showing a variety of symmetries. Wink http://www.teachent.com/winkworks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:10:08 GMT Reply-To: David@ddina.demon.co.uk Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Broughton Organization: very little Subject: Universal Transverse Mercator Map Projection Can anyone refer me to the map projection definition of the Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM). I know what a Transverse Mercator projection is and it does not exist well with the concept of "universal" since any Mercator projection will have singularities at the poles making the polar regions (relative to the equator chosen for the projection) that are impossible to map. So I assume that the UTM projection is a series of separate projections using origins at specific lat/long points. Does anyone in this newsgroup have any information on this topic or should I try another newsgroup? -- David Broughton PGP KeyID: 0x99DB81B5 Fingerprint: 1F 6B 80 8D 4C 4B 18 F4 D3 C2 97 EE 2B 6E 54 99 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:40:53 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Helmut Jarausch Organization: Numerische Mathematik - RWTH Aachen - Germany Subject: handheld GPS system - any recommendations? Hi, can anybody recommend a hand help GPS system of not more than about $250 ? Thanks for your help, Helmut. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:00:06 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: panagiwths mosxobiths Subject: Questions about icosaedron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all! I 'm new in involving with geodesics and I have some questions about icosaedron. 1. How does an icosadron look (some kind of phottos in a web page somewhere) 2. What kind of shape we 'll have if we cut an icosaedron across circumscribed's sphere's equator (e.g. if we cut an oktaedron that way we 'll have a rectangular shape) 3. How can we calculate the coordinates of the nodes an icosaedric truss.Where can I find a program doing that and outputing the results in way readable from a truss stresses calculating program. 4. Where can I get books, relative to the subject, by ftp. Thanks Moschovitis Panagiotis Structural Engineering Student (pmoschob@venus.cs.teiher.gr) Herakleion Greece ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:03:52 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Rader Subject: An interesting non-geodesic dome page... Comments: To: DomeHome-H Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII We have spent the last two-plus years developing pre-fabricated, modular, self-sustaining and portable domes in the shape of a five-petaled lotus bud and I thought you might be interested in our web site: Thanks! Richard Fairbanks Fairbanks Productions, Inc. rf@F-P-I.com http://www.F-P-I.com/ --- End Forwarded Message --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:43:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: City in the Clouds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit few ideas about materials..summary from a few pages of a book. economics of materials... composit material: stentgth remins as the property most sought , the index of competitivness expressed as cost per unit of strenght; but then again who cars for cost. rigidity. or high corrosion resistance dominate the selection only of minor portion of all materials used. production of plastic begans at oil or gas well, delivered in monomer state. yields a low order of scrap, usable only in such seconday products as toys, that is a burden to solid waste dispoal system. --------------------- speculation: reading creats bumbs in the languge circular tetrtab, that can be expressed by hock law and strain formulas, depends on the strenght of the sheets on the brain.. complex staff psychological anylysis of nature coordination in the chemistry multi complex system of the brain, so how can one rais their IQ from 1% to at least 80%, since now it is only 1%. alot to be said about that. few ideas: the book is written for a specialist, all of you are generalist; at least i am generalist and therfor not specialist, no one can call me specialist please. if you want to be specialist fine, it has its advantage. so how can you disontinue the text into your own data seeking , i think by skiping anything that is difficult, if the them is central then it is ok to tkae time, even if it needs 4 times the normal reading you do. for example quantum mechnics chapter in physics, you know the arrangment of shells and the quantum numbers-name of ceratin quantiy- needs a bit of thinking. it is difficult to explain what i mean, i am still working on it. if you need the data as you are reading then pick it up, throw all the starch- which means that you have to coher the bits you pick up-in a sense to make sense. also dents in the barain casued by the sophistication of the words used in different desciplines-for example in news we are always bombarded by law vocablary and economic terms creating a sort of disorination. prodcasters make a coctail of the language of desciplines but with extrem fragmentation. more as i think later, very important is descipline and focouse, or a new way to discover and work, we got be fasttttttttttttttt. tagdi hi everybody, as usual no reply from anybody, no feed back. well the hell with it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:53:15 +0100 Reply-To: Meeënheide@ping.be, 83A@ping.be, B3600@ping.be, Genk@ping.be, Belgium@ping.be Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tognon Marco Subject: Re: new kind of questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Menu user wrote: > > what punctuation IS doing to speed reading > what this has to do with that > what exclusion principles Doing to electron shells > what Multinational companies doing to the world > what is a rose doing to the world > what building commision doing to housing > what the jet doing to man > what is man doing to earth > what system thinking doing to man. > > tAGDI Oh Boy, I think I'me gone get mad... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:54:28 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: jack lydick Subject: traffic Boy is this a boring newsgroup or what. Come on lets hear what you folks are building (or want to). Any getting started or already started? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:44:09 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Dunaj Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Subject: Re: traffic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jack lydick wrote: > > Boy is this a boring newsgroup or what. Come on lets hear what you folks > are building (or want to). Any getting started or already started? Does building models count? I really like doing that. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:37:03 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: traffic In-Reply-To: <01bc1973$a0b85660$d27eabcc@ppp0869.nauticom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII for jack or any user: my design probe class/pillow dome or structures is seeking structures for a site visit. we are interested in inflated pillows or membrames suspended from a dome frame or structure. i recall seeing a large dome, at a school approx. 15 miles from Gettysville, PA,. does anyone know the name of the school or business? or town in which it is located? or others? we are playing with ideas and approaches now and will construct a few prototypes and models, toward the development and construction of a 20 to 30 ft. dia. dome or pavilion. the main goal is to probe the technology and experiment. thanks for the prod jack, can anyone help? thanks, john belt On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, jack lydick wrote: > Boy is this a boring newsgroup or what. Come on lets hear what you folks > are building (or want to). Any getting started or already started? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:50:54 -0800 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services Subject: Re: traffic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jack lydick wrote: > > Boy is this a boring newsgroup or what. Come on lets hear what you folks > are building (or want to). Any getting started or already started? I design domes in New Zealand and Australia, some 67 so far. The most recent dome/home, built at North Avoca, New South Wales, Australia, the owner moved in three weeks ago, was based on a 12m diameter 3v superspheroidal icosahedron, with mezzanine and basement had 160 sq.m. of floor area, 4 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, 3 bathrooms etc. It has cost $140,000 Australian dollars i.e. $850 AUD/sq.m., which is about the sq.m rate of a medium priced standard home. What I am going to build for myself is a 1000sq.m "skybreak", based on a 6v superellipsoidal icoashedron (50mx20mx10m high, mostly glass, using shrubs, hedges, hanging vines etc to create different living spaces including indoor flower, herb and vegetable gardens, and using the spaces under a mezzanine to create the private spaces required in a home. It will have passive solar heating, solar water heating, perhaps an indoor pool, interior landscaping. I'll have started building within the next 18 months. So, what are you up to Jack? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: traffic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, at this current time, I don't think I could afford to have a custom built dome-home on a lot that I could afford to build that would be worth doing in the long run. It would cost more than I have to work with at this time, because mortgage people want more equity for a custom built house. However, that does NOT mean I've given up. Rather, quite the contrary. I am in the process of trying to find a suitable rectangular type house to build up equity in, to the point where I can sell that and get what I really do want, a nicely done dome home. One of the reasons I'm doing this is because I can't easily go into just any neighborhood around here (one I would want to live in, anyway) and build what I want, due to restrictive covenants. Some of them have to do with total square footage, others with types of architecture, all with the general attempt at making the houses fit in a general look. That means I'll have to find a decent sized lot (which also is generally not available in a subdivision, unless the houses are 200,000+) so I don't feel like I'm living too comfy with my neighbors. After all, that's why a lot of houses only have two sides with windows! At this moment, I live in the epitome of what a dome is not: Hard to heat or cool efficiently and segmented due to structural requirements, causing much of the bad heat flow, etc. I live in a rather large townhouse, and I am sick of the rental scene. I'm borrowing from my 401k for the down payment for a house that seems like it should be worth having. For one thing, it means I'll have a better place to do models, and a place to plan every little detail of what I really want. Another thing is that it seems the sellers have priced it about 10% below what it should be worth, due to weather and a surprisingly slow real estate market here, since it was first listed in October. For those not familiar with this climate (Indiana, USA), that means they started the listing right at the start of snow time, approximately, and a lot of people around here hide inside during the colder months, and aren't interested in the prospect of moving with snow and ice on the ground. But heck, I come from Michigan, where it is a little colder on average, with on average (the part I'm from) twice as much snow, and it is all just weather, which gives me an advantage. So, between actually paying on a house that should have excellent, higher resale value than I'm paying, and actually putting away money in that manner, I'm working to the point (I calculate about 3 years should give me what I need for starting) of getting what I really want. In the mean time, I'll be advancing software for model building (software engineer by trade) and testing the same software by building models. Plus, in addition to that, I intend on a design and construction of a low cost play house for my cousins' kids, since they have no real budget to work with. It will be a geodesic dome or a BuckyBall type structure, and designed to be quite inexpensive to build, while being safe. ---------- > From: jack lydick > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: traffic > Date: Wednesday, February 12, 1997 5:54 PM > > Boy is this a boring newsgroup or what. Come on lets hear what you folks > are building (or want to). Any getting started or already started? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:34:21 -0800 Reply-To: dmbuffum@HealthPartners.Com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Dwight M. Buffum" Organization: HealhPartners Subject: Sky Break dome Comments: cc: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit John William Rich wrote: >> What I am going to build for myself is a 1000sq.m "skybreak", based on a 6v superellipsoidal icoashedron (50mx20mx10m high, mostly glass, usingshrubs, hedges, hanging vines etc to create different living spaces including indoor flower, herb and vegetable gardens, and using thespaces under a mezzanine to create the private spaces required in a home. It will have passive solar heating, solar water heating, perhaps an indoor pool, interior landscaping. I'll have started building within the next 18 months. >> John, your plans sound very appealing. It sounds like you have a major commitment and a thriving business in leading edge dwelling structures. Would you inform me/us about the price-performance of your spherical and enhanced spherical structures, including Sky Break applications if possible, as compared to some other building methods including tract boxes and various geodesic domes? I'm very interested in the Sky Break concept, as well. I imagine it as living in an open "springtime" greenhouse or conservatory space with dynamic and flexible partitioning to screen sight, sound, etc., as needed. I can even imagine living in community or an extended family in a large Sky Break. Bucky initially kindled my imagination and J. Baldwin fanned the embers in his recent book "Buckyworks". Baldwin's PillowDome appeals to me for a Sky Break because of it's apparent low cost, weight and maintenance. My concerns are about zoning or "living in a greenhouse", about which Baldwin warns us. I would like to stay near the Twin Cities of St. Paul-Minneapolis. Where and how do I investigate zoning issues? Where do I find price-performance data on Baldwin's PillowDome? What other resources are there regarding the Sky Break approach to dwelling? Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:37:40 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: traffic John Dunaj ,Internet writes: > jack lydick wrote: >> >> Boy is this a boring newsgroup or what. Come on lets hear what you folks >> are building (or want to). Any getting started or already started? > > Does building models count? I really like doing that. Me, too. I have styrofoam cup models scattered all over the living room. Never realized how many symmetries were possible ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:33:57 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: traffic jack lydick ,Internet writes: Boy is this a boring newsgroup or what. Come on lets hear what you folks are building (or want to). Any getting started or already started? John Rich , of New Zealand, had some interesting things to say about some non-sperical designs he's implementing. I bet if we asked him really nice, he'd post the email message he sent to me and my friend Donna Delmas. (I think he reads this list.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:01:46 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Shon d Lenzo Subject: Skybreak-JW RICH-Style John William Rich wrote: >> What I am going to build for myself is a 1000sq.m "skybreak", based on a 6v superellipsoidal icoashedron (50mx20mx10m high, mostly glass, usingshrubs, hedges, hanging vines etc to create different living spaces including indoor flower, herb and vegetable gardens, and using thespaces under a mezzanine to create the private spaces required in a home. It will have passive solar heating, solar water heating, perhaps an indoor pool, interior landscaping. I'll have started building within the next 18 months. John- This is exactly the same kind of thing that I am looking into building... Can you point me in the right direction,or send any details on your design?? One thing I plan to incorporate in my version is a symbiotic Hydroponic garden and Aquaculture setup....The tank that holds the fish also retains heat at night. The waste by products (to put it nicely) from the fish just happen to be what the plants need the most....The plants filter the water, and with the help of some friendly bacreria-the water goes bach to the fosh 98% pure... You get to harvest fish & veggies as you go along. -As well as having a neat huge 'Aquarium' and plants. For each pound of fish-ultimately 40-70 lbs. of veggies are produced, also. Thia is what I want to set up as my living arrangement, as well. Please send me more details on your project.....Extremely interested- ----Shon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:22:52 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Skip Kindler Subject: Dome under construction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jack, I have been looking forward to seeing some nuggets of wisdom on dome building on this list. I am currently building a 36' dome that is on top of an aircraft hanger in north Idaho it is a project that i acquired from another person. It is an Oregon Dome kit that came with a set of plans but the structure is only framed with 2/4 so have been trying to figure out what to do about insulation (the roof is on) also it was planned with several small bedrooms and tiny bath rooms. My hope is to come up with an interior layout that is not just trying to make a round building into square rooms but to use the interior and exterior shapes to enhance each other i plan on doing most all of the future work myself and am not afraid of building with curves. I enjoy building things that make people think.. Right now i am living near Seattle but am planing on moving to Idaho to get on with the project this spring.. I could post some pictures to the list but am not sure of the etiquette of this list. Anyone feel free to comment it is not as weird as it sounds Skip Kindler skips@cnw.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:23:19 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: Dome under construction Skip Kindler wrote > I am currently building a 36' dome that is on top of an aircraft hanger. This is interesting, if I may ask, why on top of an aircraft hanger and are you planning to eventually live there? > I could post some pictures to the list but am not sure of the etiquette > of this list. I'd be very interested to see what the structure looks like, please attach to a direct e-mail to me. Regards Dawie Venter Cape Town - South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:17:34 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: new kind of questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi Mrco, i think that geodesic is about Fuller ideas, and not just about geodesic domes. i take it that you are interested in geodesic domes, and may be for money only. you could always delete if you dont like someone emials, i red your emial about books; it was not important to me, i could of complained that it is nonsense. as for the person who is complaining that this list is boring, why doesnt he bring somthing interesting, tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:19:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: Sky Break dome Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a lot of people using Fuller ideas to make money, they forget that was not what he was after or advocated. i was cught in the possibility of money, but not anymore. not that i have any money. if you are for money, you are using this group for your own good, forget it. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:28:22 +0900 Reply-To: bluedawg@concentric.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: BlueDawg Organization: OREGON - USA Subject: Re: new kind of questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > as for the person who is complaining that this list is boring, why > doesn't he bring something interesting, Dear List People I joined this list last night while researching geodesic domes. I'm very interested in possibly building one here in Oregon. I've little money but they appear to be less expensive than conventional housing. Is this the right list for this type of discourse? Does anyone on this list have building/living experience in a dome? -- Shari Oregon - USA "Bull Terriers don't beg" Grimmy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:34:29 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: jack lydick Subject: unboring Ok, at least we got a few postings! Now lets talk about real geodesic domes, not pie in the sky ideas. Who has build a dome (not a model, either)? I am currently building a 45' , 3/8 , on a 4' riser. Thinking about new ways to insulate it, any comments? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:06:45 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: unboring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suspect you are using a kit from someone like Oregon Domes. My question is, have you already bought the interior drywall panels, and have you already decided on form wall placements? Also, what I have in mind may make windows a little more interesting, but I suspect should not be too much of a problem. What I propose that you could use would potentially utilize a wire mesh on the interior of the dome that is suspended from the interior by hangers attached to the struts. Of course, if you used large enough struts (2*10) to start with to really insulate the dome, this whole concept wouldn't make as much sense. What I am proposing may possibly be implemented as sort of a smaller dome within the larger dome, but the smaller dome made of less structural wood, and suspended from the outside walls by wire hangers. Using a metal mesh would have some interesting properties, and you would have to decide if you want the combination: 1. You would absolutely need to have an outdoor-indoor antenna hookup, because a completely wire meshed building is effectively a Faraday cage, which would make anything inside pretty much immune to electromagnetic radiation. This would also make the use of a pager or other cellular device inoperable, except in a direct line of sight with a window or nonmetal door. 2. Done correctly, this metal wire mesh could also be used as a stretched skin and should add some tensile strength to the structure. 3. If you used the wire mesh, it would lend itself to plastering quite nicely, allowing a really nice interior finish. 4. making structural changes might get a little more interesting. Also, if you got a leak started (oh no!) I would hope it would be galvanized so it wouldn't start rusting and staining horribly. 5. In the case of a fire, it would help provide emergency structural integrity to keep the minimum from falling. This might be a distinct advantage worth looking at. 6. Wiring and plumbing using this would be really easy, because you would not need to drill holes through your main structural struts. This would directly affect the strength of your dome in a positive way, since any holes in a strut will weaken it, too big of holes will weaken it dangerously, making it necessary to use thicker struts for safety, costing more money and more resources, making the whole thing much heavier and harder to build, since you might need mechanical assistance! Using the wire mesh, wire ties would be quite sufficient, easy, inexpensive, flexible and solid, just make sure you use tension reliefs. Another advantage is that you could have the plumbing that much further inside the thick layer of insulation, making it a silly thought of utilizing the wasteful practice of leaving your water running when it gets too cold (I live in an apartment complex currently- but not for long!- that you are required to leave water running when it gets below 25 degrees F, which of course is most of an Indiana winter! Yet I grew up in an old house, with no plumbing actually in an outside wall, no wall insulation, and pipe freezing was never even a threat, and this is north of Detroit where I grew up! Moral of the story? Unless you have a darn good reason not to, try to have all of your plumbing on the interior. It may cost a little more at first, but it is more than worth it!) 7. I can't think of a better way to have a very big grounding plane, assuming you have it run into and make contact with Earth ground. All that total thickness of wire would evenly spread out a lightning bolt and dissipate it evenly around you, momentarily generating a magnetic force field, to which you would be immune to. This same sort of protection should exist, within limits of line of sight of electronic devices, in the doom and gloom scenario of an Electromagnetic Pulse, which is generated by atomic blasts. Granted, this would only be valuable enough if you weren't close enough to the blast to be flattened or irradiated to a fatal level. I might have forgotten or not realized all properties involved with using a metal wire mesh. You could also substitute nylon, but I think that may be more expensive, and I know that that would be a detriment for fire rating and safety, effectively acting like Napalm when lit. What you would do is suspend the mesh from the interior of the exterior dome, and then have furring strips in the strut positions assembled to form the place for good attachments for your drywall. Using this system, you could make your walls arbitrarily thick, giving them all of the insulation you want. Another option, if you are feeling up to this and the kit (if that is what you are using) would make this feasible, to use the minimum amount of large lumber, is to add 2*10's or whatever to the outside edges of the struts, so you have more to build on. These would go between the panels. I think you would still need additional woodworking to make it easy to hang the drywall, though. What you could also do is to build the dome on the outside, and screw these large pieces to the interior edges of the struts. You would only need and want to do it to the struts for the triangles, since wood is less than ideal for space efficient insulation, and you don't need that much lumber for structural purposes. If you really don't feel like messing with that much lumber (which I could see getting to cost a bit) you could also just screw in smaller pieces that hang out as far as you want the insulation thick, and use wire or something like that to hold the insulation in place gently. Make sure that you set it up to allow easy drywall fastening. I think an L-shaped metal bracket, or just a thick piece of (ideally for efficiency!) scrap lumber sawed off flat enough would work great. Let me know what you think of these ideas. I will be moving into a conventional house soon that I am in the process of getting a mortgage in, to be used as a way to build equity to get what I really want. I would really like to see how well these ideas work, since I would like to build mine with the best structural and insulative values while still having it affordable and practical to build. Even though I would have some difficulty perhaps taking enough time off to erect it, I suspect I might need to, since a home show revealed that probably no home builder in this area has ever tackled such a critter. ---------- > From: jack lydick > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: unboring > Date: Friday, February 14, 1997 7:34 AM > > Ok, at least we got a few postings! > Now lets talk about real geodesic domes, not pie in the sky ideas. Who has > build a dome (not a model, either)? > I am currently building a 45' , 3/8 , on a 4' riser. Thinking about new > ways to insulate it, any comments? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 17:26:36 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Paul R. Kosuth" Subject: Re: traffic In-Reply-To: <01bc1973$a0b85660$d27eabcc@ppp0869.nauticom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, jack lydick wrote: > Boy is this a boring newsgroup or what. Come on lets hear what you folks > are building (or want to). Any getting started or already started? > Not boring just too damned busy. My school is in the process (ok, still) of building a 2 freq hub and strut dome in our bio nature reserve on campus. The process is slow going but we do have a social work intern with carpentry/construction expertise so I think that things will fly and be completed by May. Paul Kosuth Mat/Sci instr Brehm Prep School Carbondale Il prkosuth@prairienet.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 17:31:16 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Paul R. Kosuth" Subject: Re: traffic In-Reply-To: <00020DC1.fc@management21.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII J Michael Rowland wrote: "Me, too. I have styrofoam cup models scattered all over the living room. Never realized how many symmetries were possible" Can you explain more on how you use your strofoam cups to build your models ? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 03:12:46 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Devendra Lakhani Subject: dome buildings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" March issue of Popular Science has an interesting piece on dome bldgs in Tokyo.Posibilities are immense. devendra ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:10:32 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Blate Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping Comments: cc: coolbear@EARTHLINK.NET, domesblate@webtv.net, g-joinst@gate.net Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV 1.0) Hi -- in your note about wrapping a dome in (chicken)wire, to essentially make a Farraday cage: What happens within, when you are using electronic instruments (e.g., TVs, VCRs, computers and other EMF-generating devices? Couldn't this be exaggerating the EMF process WITHIN the structure and "electro-poisoning" the inhabitants with this "whole 'lot of zappin' goin' on"? I don't know much about Farraday cages, magnetic pulses and grounding; but I know that EMFs seem great to avoid whenever possible, and magnifying them within a home seems unwise. Thanks for any feedback that can be given: I've liked the idea of chickenwire wrapping for a long time, but have been SO concerned about EMFs/Farraday phenomenon that I've felt the poly- or nylon mesh (as in open shade-cloth used by nurseries, for example) seemed a much better way to "lath." Thanks, again, and be well. Michael Blate ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:53:45 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping Comments: To: Michael Blate Comments: cc: domesblate@webtv.net, g-joinst@gate.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't really think it would cause any real problem, even if it does. The field intensity would be low, unless you like to run 3 phase industrial machinery inside your house. If it is a problem, then people shouldn't live within a modern high rise building, or work within a typical large building, because they are essentially a relatively flawed Faraday cage. The last place I worked in was a large, 2-3 story high warehouse style building on the outside, and because of the metal framing, depending upon where you were at, sometimes pages wouldn't get through, cellular and cordless phones were somewhat ineffective, and TV reception sucked. Granted, the area I was in had about 30 computers in about a 50*100 room or smaller, no doubt generating all kinds of flux lines in very complex patterns Cordless phones are suspected of being a problem because of the energy level of the magnetic field. The field strength decays with the law of squares: If you are twice as far away, it is 1/4 (or is it one half? Can't remember!) the strength. Light is the same law, and is why a bunch of smaller wattage lights is more effective for a large area than one high power light. Radios and TVs have to be very sensitive to pick up the broadcasts for this reason, and that is why it requires a massive amount of power to transmit. Also, the strength of the fields (or at least their effect on biological beings) is affected by frequency, which is partly why microwaves are effective for cooking. Cellular phones use a very high frequency in comparison to TV and AM/FM radio broadcasts we use. So, I really don't know for sure if that would be something that would amplify the effect or not. A way to make it not be a problem is to have proper magnetic shielding on all equipment, providing small Faraday cages for everything of consequence. More recent monitors are better shielded for that reason, as well as so that you can do things like place speakers right next to them. If you are really concerned about EMF, don't use speakers very loud, don't huddle close to your computer or monitor, heck, go all the way and live like the Amish. EMF isn't very likely to harm them overall, but I think I'd rather take my risks with modern things than be labor inefficient and spend an amount of time required for the bare necessities that can be used for either the pursuit of material things (like a better dome) or good family time. They work very hard, but because of their beliefs, don't work very smart. I suppose in the case of a nuclear war, everybody would suddenly be asking them for help, because there wouldn't be any functional power plants or wiring, or for that matter, cars and other electric/electronic equipment. Anything not shielded from the pulse would be toast. Power plants, even if shielded, would be unable to deal with the power surge induced into the power lines. With the typical car (I think there is no new car produced without it) having several computers on board, it would be next to impossible for anyone to have a road ready vehicle that wasn't human or animal powered. Unless, of course, your vehicle just happened to be parked inside of a Faraday construction garage! coolbear@earthlink.net In the Circle City "Wander Indiana" is not just a license plate slogan, it's a way of life! ---------- > From: Michael Blate > To: List for the discussion ofBuckminster Fuller's works > Cc: coolbear@EARTHLINK.NET; domesblate@webtv.net; g-joinst@gate.net > Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping > Date: Sunday, February 16, 1997 12:10 PM > > Hi -- in your note about wrapping a dome in (chicken)wire, to > essentially make a Farraday cage: What happens within, when you are > using electronic instruments (e.g., TVs, VCRs, computers and other > EMF-generating devices? Couldn't this be exaggerating the EMF process > WITHIN the structure and "electro-poisoning" the inhabitants with this > "whole 'lot of zappin' goin' on"? I don't know much about Farraday > cages, magnetic pulses and grounding; but I know that EMFs seem great to > avoid whenever possible, and magnifying them within a home seems unwise. > Thanks for any feedback that can be given: I've liked the idea of > chickenwire wrapping for a long time, but have been SO concerned about > EMFs/Farraday phenomenon that I've felt the poly- or nylon mesh (as in > open shade-cloth used by nurseries, for example) seemed a much better > way to "lath." Thanks, again, and be well. > Michael Blate ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:39:11 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: MBatchelor Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: handheld GPS system - any recommendations? I'm not sure what a GPS has to do with domes but . . . Popular Science did an article on GPSs near the end of 1996. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:16:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: MBatchelor Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Who am I? Dear Group, FYI I am a 35 year old engineer with a B.S. and M.S. in Agricultural Engineering. My specialty is Computer Vision and Image Analysis. Somewhere I picked up the desire to do the most with the least (maybe from being one of 5 kids!). I am interested in dome homes for a number of reasons. Some of them are (in no particular order): * Speed of construction * Reduced use of lumber (I hate to see the number of 2x4s used in normal construction!) * Possibility of rotation of house to "follow" the sun * Possibility of "reorganizing" the interior with reduced concern for load bearing walls * Reduced heating and cooling costs * Resistance to destruction by natural disasters including huricanes, tornadoes (sp? dictionary not close by!), earthquakes, etc. I live in Houston and have been inside only one dome (other than the Astrodome :) ). This was the Xanadu demonstration home in Kissamee Florida. I am trying to retire debt accumulated during college education and am considering purchasing a townhouse/condo or small house. I look forward to the day when I can find the money, property, and time to build the house of my dreams. Right now it would be situated to maximize the entry of sun into the home in the morning for that extra kick in the pants required to start the day. I am looking forward to taking one of the dome tours I have learned about in this group. Enough about me. Who are you? Matthew M. Batchelor (MBatchelor@AOL.Com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:40:35 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Blate Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV 1.0) Hi, "coolbear" -- thanks so much for the thoughtful reply about EMFs. Like the Buddha, I try to walk the middle pathway; and your comments have given me more fuel for thought. Again, thanks ... and be well! Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:44:08 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Claudio Ardohain Organization: Nodo CA - Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping Comments: To: Michael Blate Hi, Electromagnetic Fields: Yes, making your dome-house a Faraday cage will strengthen the EMF inside. Generally speaking, for health reasons, EMF should not surpass 2 mG (at normal AC: 50-60 Hz). See the article: Magnetics Fields and You, in IEEE's Spectrum Magazine - December 1994. Schumann waves: A Faraday cage would also isolate you from Schumann waves, which are neccessary to any lifeform on Earth. Schumann field is the fundamental frecquency of the natural magnetic field of our planet (7,8 Hz), which also coincides with our brain's Alpha frec. NASA uses Schumann waves generators in the spaceships to keep astronauts healthy. Electric Field: Most animals (including us) need a continous electric field of at least 100 v/m as we find in nature (Drs. Moese, Fischer & Schuy). The metal structures of large buildings reduce it too much and our inmunological system is thus debilitated. These effects are minimized if you have shielded devices and wiring, a good electric grounding and a separate grounding for your metal structure. But I think you better use plastic fence mesh. Claudio ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:47:49 +0900 Reply-To: bluedawg@concentric.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: BlueDawg Organization: OREGON - USA Subject: Re: Who am I? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MBatchelor wrote: > > Dear Group, > I am a 35 year old engineer with a B.S. and M.S. in Agricultural > Engineering...... > My specialty is Computer Vision and Image Analysis. ...... > > .....Enough about me. Who are you? > > Matthew M. Batchelor > (MBatchelor@AOL.Com) I'm 53, single and joined this list a few days ago hoping to find out more about dome homes. I've always been fascinated with them. I live west of Portland, Oregon and hope to tour one that's going up in March somewhere in this area. I was also hoping that someone who actually lives in one would be on this list and maybe they could share their experiences and thoughts with us. Any takers? -- Shari Oregon - USA "Bull Terriers don't beg" Grimmy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:02:26 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting. I strongly suspected that the strength would be increased inside, and knew there were undoubtedly healthy and unhealthy limits, but never realized that we actually required a certain strength or frequency for better health to exist. But then, considering everything has some kind of harmonic frequency and everything is tied together with electrons, neutrons, protons and a few other things, I suppose it makes sense. I wonder if this would give rise to the theory that life in outer space away from a planet would be very unlikely, for need of a magnetic field of a given frequency and strength. I suppose this is straying outside of the topic of this newsgroup. Having a degree in Electronics Engineering Technology (but now doing Software Engineering for a living) I can pretty well understand the possible advantages and disadvantages of being magnetically shielded. I wonder if there is any like advantages/disadvantages to living in a structure of a particular shape that actually do somehow contribute to health factors, if all of the various shapes had the identical temperature, humidity, etc. that we normally deal with. That would be interesting if someone could prove that conclusively in a scientific way. One of the reasons that geodesic domes fascinates me is their great functional characteristics. They have some bizarre positive properties that defy what we grow up knowing as 'normal'. I had some first hand experience with just using 60# weight paper constructing a variation of a truncated icosahedron that had a total of 80 sides as a present wrapping. The more complete and the larger the total construction got, the stronger it got, despite having more weight. The container was composed of 20 hexagons and 12 hexagons with one side removed and all the other triangles folded along the sides, with all of the pentagons concave, give 20 hexagon sides, and 60 triangles from all of the pentagons made of the equilateral triangles. Each of the hexagons had an exterior flange of about 1/2 inch, and the pentagons had the same outside flange. This was all taped together using 1/2 inch wide scotch tape, which I discovered, is not nearly up to the task of shear imparted on it with any load inside. The package on the inside held a steel mixing bowl set, along with a bunch of wooden spoons and a wooden tenderizer mallet. But that wasn't where the real weight came in. The real weight was from the 80 quarters I taped to each one of the triangles of the pentagons and the center of each of the hexagons. This package was 2 feet in diameter, and self supporting. Due to inaccuracies in folding and cutting (it took many hours, despite using an X-Acto knife and straight edge and having printed out perfect shapes on my laser printer!) where the most stress was (mostly on the bottom) some of the seams were shearing apart a bit. The paper was not ripping, but the tape would not hold that much stress. Moral of the story: Don't use these kind of joints with a fastener that can't take a lot of shear stress. This was my first construction of anything more complex than an icosahedron, and the first time I had constructed something of more than 2 pieces (I used a total of 32 pieces of paper) and the construction order was to start from an icosahedron pentagon hub and build in a symmetrical manner, ending up with the vertex opposite. This worked out pretty well, since I could adjust each piece to make the best match around the other ones. My next big wrapper was a similar sized 32 sided buckyball, and I made the mistake of assembling the two hemispheres separate and then joining them together. I had enclosed Synergetics inside of that package, and that made it quite difficult to finish around that. Also, I discovered that trying to match up the two halves was rather difficult. For anyone who wishes to put together something like this with a flexible material, use my first method. It works a lot better, and will save some insanity. The second method may work fine, if the material is stiff, and all of the pieces are exact, and the seams and joints are exact. This is very difficult, if not impossible, with paper. Besides, there is no such thing as a perfect solid anyway! I have heard of some people constructing the Buckyball configuration type dome, and found the calculations to have an unacceptable amount of error in real life. I haven't tracked down exactly where those calculations come from (is it Synergetics 2, a book I don't have, or is it spelled out in the book of his inventions?) but I have a sneaky suspicion where the errors have come from. The possible reasons are: 1. The trig functions used a table that had insufficient accuracies for anything of real scale. 2. Some poor trusting soul was expecting floating point calculations on a computer to be very accurate. Theory #1 holds more promise if the idea is old enough. Theory #2 holds a lot of promise as being the problem. Even with a very high accuracy of double and long double floating point numbers (familiar to those who program in C and C++ like I do) it is annoyingly easy to demonstrate how rounding errors creep in very quickly, no matter what CPU you use, no matter what floating point representation you use. That is why the Federal Government often uses BCD numbers, and is part of the reason why fixed point numbers are used in 3D graphic calculations. If anyone is interested in calculating those numbers needed, I strongly urge that the investigate using fixed point math. I know how to do it, and have had to do it in the past. I've been burned by limits of floating point numbers. They are as unnatural and irrational as PI in practice when used to represent numbers we use, and can not represent some of the numbers we wish to represent. In a way, this paragraph was partly unrelated to the main forum, but I wish to spread some knowledge and experience I have that can help people accomplish their objectives when it comes to building geodesics. The math is hairy enough without dealing with artificial representation limits you may not be aware of! Well, that is all I have to say for this little discussion, I will step down off of my soapbox and let someone else take my place. Of course, I will continue to monitor the discussion. coolbear@earthlink.net In the Circle City "Wander Indiana" is not just a license plate slogan, it's a way of life! ---------- > From: Claudio Ardohain > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping > Date: Sunday, February 16, 1997 9:44 PM > > Hi, > > Electromagnetic Fields: > Yes, making your dome-house a Faraday cage will strengthen the > EMF inside. Generally speaking, for health reasons, EMF should not > surpass 2 mG (at normal AC: 50-60 Hz). > See the article: Magnetics Fields and You, in IEEE's Spectrum > Magazine - December 1994. > > Schumann waves: > A Faraday cage would also isolate you from Schumann waves, > which are neccessary to any lifeform on Earth. Schumann field is the > fundamental frecquency of the natural magnetic field of our planet > (7,8 Hz), which also coincides with our brain's Alpha frec. > NASA uses Schumann waves generators in the spaceships to keep > astronauts healthy. > > Electric Field: > Most animals (including us) need a continous electric field of at > least 100 v/m as we find in nature (Drs. Moese, Fischer & Schuy). The > metal structures of large buildings reduce it too much and our > inmunological system is thus debilitated. > > These effects are minimized if you have shielded devices and wiring, a > good electric grounding and a separate grounding for your metal > structure. > But I think you better use plastic fence mesh. > > Claudio ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:02:20 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Blate Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV 1.0) Hi, Claudio -- thanks VERY much for confirming what my "gut" already sensed some time ago. I and my family appreciate your comments and feedback. Be well! Michael Blate ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:10:04 -0800 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: unboring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Consider that your dome has about 30% less surface area and perimeter to loose heat out of. Insulating to the level of 2x10 is probably overkill. A 2x6 framed dome has been shown to be as efficient as a superinsulated square/rectangle. If you do want more insulation, add it to the outside in the form of rigid insulation bonded to sheathing. This can be simply nailed on before you put on your roofing. This insulates all of your studs and struts (wood has an r-value of one per inch), producing a very well insulated home, while it doesn't add the weight that the super-structure that described below adds (weight is bad in earthquake country). It also sounds much easier to apply. We've built many 2x4 domes with the exterior insulation described above. It produces a more efficient home than a 2x6 one, and also carries the benefit of allowing us to use more second-growth lumber in the project. Jonathan B. Thompson wrote: > > I suspect you are using a kit from someone like Oregon Domes. My question > is, have you already bought the interior drywall panels, and have you > already decided on form wall placements? Also, what I have in mind may > make windows a little more interesting, but I suspect should not be too > much of a problem. > > What I propose that you could use would potentially utilize a wire mesh on > the interior of the dome that is suspended from the interior by hangers > attached to the struts. Of course, if you used large enough struts (2*10) > to start with to really insulate the dome, this whole concept wouldn't make > as much sense. What I am proposing may possibly be implemented as sort of > a smaller dome within the larger dome, but the smaller dome made of less > structural wood, and suspended from the outside walls by wire hangers. > Using a metal mesh would have some interesting properties, and you would > have to decide if you want the combination: > > 1. You would absolutely need to have an outdoor-indoor antenna hookup, > because a completely wire meshed building is effectively a Faraday cage, > which would make anything inside pretty much immune to electromagnetic > radiation. This would also make the use of a pager or other cellular > device inoperable, except in a direct line of sight with a window or > nonmetal door. > > 2. Done correctly, this metal wire mesh could also be used as a stretched > skin and should add some tensile strength to the structure. > > 3. If you used the wire mesh, it would lend itself to plastering quite > nicely, allowing a really nice interior finish. > > 4. making structural changes might get a little more interesting. Also, if > you got a leak started (oh no!) I would hope it would be galvanized so it > wouldn't start rusting and staining horribly. > > 5. In the case of a fire, it would help provide emergency structural > integrity to keep the minimum from falling. This might be a distinct > advantage worth looking at. > > 6. Wiring and plumbing using this would be really easy, because you would > not need to drill holes through your main structural struts. This would > directly affect the strength of your dome in a positive way, since any > holes in a strut will weaken it, too big of holes will weaken it > dangerously, making it necessary to use thicker struts for safety, costing > more money and more resources, making the whole thing much heavier and > harder to build, since you might need mechanical assistance! Using the > wire mesh, wire ties would be quite sufficient, easy, inexpensive, flexible > and solid, just make sure you use tension reliefs. Another advantage is > that you could have the plumbing that much further inside the thick layer > of insulation, making it a silly thought of utilizing the wasteful practice > of leaving your water running when it gets too cold (I live in an apartment > complex currently- but not for long!- that you are required to leave water > running when it gets below 25 degrees F, which of course is most of an > Indiana winter! Yet I grew up in an old house, with no plumbing actually > in an outside wall, no wall insulation, and pipe freezing was never even a > threat, and this is north of Detroit where I grew up! Moral of the story? > Unless you have a darn good reason not to, try to have all of your plumbing > on the interior. It may cost a little more at first, but it is more than > worth it!) > > 7. I can't think of a better way to have a very big grounding plane, > assuming you have it run into and make contact with Earth ground. All that > total thickness of wire would evenly spread out a lightning bolt and > dissipate it evenly around you, momentarily generating a magnetic force > field, to which you would be immune to. This same sort of protection should > exist, within limits of line of sight of electronic devices, in the doom > and gloom scenario of an Electromagnetic Pulse, which is generated by > atomic blasts. Granted, this would only be valuable enough if you weren't > close enough to the blast to be flattened or irradiated to a fatal level. > > I might have forgotten or not realized all properties involved with using a > metal wire mesh. You could also substitute nylon, but I think that may be > more expensive, and I know that that would be a detriment for fire rating > and safety, effectively acting like Napalm when lit. What you would do is > suspend the mesh from the interior of the exterior dome, and then have > furring strips in the strut positions assembled to form the place for good > attachments for your drywall. Using this system, you could make your walls > arbitrarily thick, giving them all of the insulation you want. > > Another option, if you are feeling up to this and the kit (if that is what > you are using) would make this feasible, to use the minimum amount of large > lumber, is to add 2*10's or whatever to the outside edges of the struts, so > you have more to build on. These would go between the panels. I think you > would still need additional woodworking to make it easy to hang the > drywall, though. What you could also do is to build the dome on the > outside, and screw these large pieces to the interior edges of the struts. > You would only need and want to do it to the struts for the triangles, > since wood is less than ideal for space efficient insulation, and you don't > need that much lumber for structural purposes. If you really don't feel > like messing with that much lumber (which I could see getting to cost a > bit) you could also just screw in smaller pieces that hang out as far as > you want the insulation thick, and use wire or something like that to hold > the insulation in place gently. Make sure that you set it up to allow easy > drywall fastening. I think an L-shaped metal bracket, or just a thick > piece of (ideally for efficiency!) scrap lumber sawed off flat enough would > work great. > > Let me know what you think of these ideas. I will be moving into a > conventional house soon that I am in the process of getting a mortgage in, > to be used as a way to build equity to get what I really want. I would > really like to see how well these ideas work, since I would like to build > mine with the best structural and insulative values while still having it > affordable and practical to build. Even though I would have some > difficulty perhaps taking enough time off to erect it, I suspect I might > need to, since a home show revealed that probably no home builder in this > area has ever tackled such a critter. > ---------- > > From: jack lydick > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: unboring > > Date: Friday, February 14, 1997 7:34 AM > > > > Ok, at least we got a few postings! > > Now lets talk about real geodesic domes, not pie in the sky ideas. Who > has > > build a dome (not a model, either)? > > I am currently building a 45' , 3/8 , on a 4' riser. Thinking about new > > ways to insulate it, any comments? -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:24:24 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tracy Ljung Subject: Geodesic Habitat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all- I'm a first year student at Case Western Reserve University (in Cleveland), majoring in systems engineering and technical theater. I discovered Buckminster Fuller last year while designing and researching geodesic domes for an architectural drafting class. I was fascinated by his ideas and went on to do more research. I had left it behind this year, in the midst of adjusting to college life, but my interest was recently rekindled. I've done some volunteering with Habitat for Humanity and it finally struck me that their goal was exactly the same as Bucky's goal of providing housing for everybody on earth. So it seems to me that the logical thing would be for Habitat to be building geodesic domes. The advantages of geodesic domes in any situation would work particularly well for Habitat homes, especially the ease of construction (since all labor is done by volunteers) and the considerably lower cost. The organization seems to be willing to experiment. They are building eighteen homes in the "Bicentennial Village," area in Cleveland, most of which utilize steel frames rather than 2x4s. A steel company donated the steel for the homes, and it has benefitted the company because people are learning how to work with steel in residential housing and the idea is gaining publicity in the industry. I believe that an analogous cooporative effort between Habitat and a geodesic dome kit company could be a great stride toward meeting the goal of Bucky and the organization. I'm not sure how to get the ball rolling, but I thought somebody here might have some ideas. Tracy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:52:03 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: unboring Comments: To: jack lydick jack lydick ,Internet writes: > Now lets talk about real geodesic domes, not pie in the sky ideas. Who has > build a dome (not a model, either)? > I am currently building a 45' , 3/8 , on a 4' riser. Thinking about new > ways to insulate it, any comments? Do you mean a 45-foot diameter? do you mean a dome that is 3/8 of a sphere? (rather than 3/4... three eighths of a sphere seems pretty shallow -- but maybe that's why you need a 4-foot riser? -- and I don't see, anyway, how you can be that accurate when speaking of the volume of a sphere enclosed by a geodesic skin.) As to how you insulate it, that would depend on what you are building it out of... which you don't mention. And it also depends a LOT on what methods of joinery you're using. I understand that modern pre-fab and pre-fab kits include joinery schemes that greatly lessen leakage due to the inevitable uneven expansion of the dome's skin (the side facing the sun always expands and contracts at a different rate than the side in shadow... eventually warping members, loosening nails and cracking caulkbeads). In fact, I've heard several times lately that some modern building methods are designed in such a way that they "can't" leak; I'd like to hear more about this. I understand how a pillowdome would not ever leak, but I'd like someone to explain to me how a dome built from conventional building materials can be built in such a way that it "can't" leak... implying that the design overcomes the shortcomings of the materials somehow. I built a 32-foot diameter sphere; it was really just a giant model; but it showed me a way to enclose the volume using conventional materials in such a way that expansion/contraction would not necessarily weaken the structure or let weather in. jmr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:10:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ralph Henderson Subject: 10 ft dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) Has anyone tried Calculator One? Is it easy to use? Is it accurate? 2a) I would like to build a 10 foot dia. 5/8 geodesic dome, where strut lengths are around 24 inches long using standard 1 by 2s. b) 1 by 2s ripped to correct (this is not called axial angle is it?) angle so there will not be any gaps on the outside. c) 1 by 2s bolted together twice in each strut. d) each face to be covered with plastic stapled to the sides of 1 by 2s. e) designed such that the sphere can be divided neatly into a 5/8s using minimum amount of different triangles. Is it possible? Ralph ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:05:34 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Claudio Ardohain Organization: Nodo CA - Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA Subject: Forms Comments: To: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Hi, Jonathan. Sorry for my English. Very insteresting your experiences with wrappers. My biggest structure has been an icosahedron made of aluminium tubes -sides= 1 meter-. It collapsed like a dying jellyfish half a minute after I finished it. Joints problem. I think these kind of trial and error works help us to understand the dynamics of real world. My favourite Fuller's phrase is "Nature hates number PI", similar to Hawking's "The Universe hates naked singularities". And irrational numbers are mathematical singularities. That's why Nature approaches the Golden Number (1.618...) by using Fibonacci's series. I'm writing a book on the Effects of Architectural Forms (in Spanish). I believe there is a non-visual perceptible form field, but it is difficult to perform lab experiences to demonstrate this. Sensitive crystallization or growing plants are affected by many other subtle forces. For example, nomad cultures believe that "little demons live in the corners", so they build their homes round, like iglus, tents, yurthas, inipis, etc. Probably they are perceiving dark sharp-cornered sites as unhealthy. Chinese believe ch'i (vital energy) become stagnant at concave angles. Many people like geodesic domes because "it feels good inside". Many others use them as meditation rooms. We are strongly appealed by smooth curves... including women surfaces. Claudio Ardohain Buenos Aires, Argentina. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:55:08 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: asap@SYMPATICO.CA Organization: Sympatico Subject: Dome Home Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw an add in Popular Science for Timberline Dome Homes. Sounds very very interesting and looks like an awesome place to live. Has anybody built one of these? >From which manufacturer did you get your plans from? Also anyone who has built one in Canada and has had CMHC give you mortage insurance on one of these, I would really like to hear from you. I have a million and one questions, but I would like to talk to someone who has actually built one. Thanks in advance. Rob Zielinsky ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:14:44 +0900 Reply-To: bluedawg@concentric.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: BlueDawg Organization: OREGON - USA Subject: Re: Forms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Claudio Ardohain wrote: >......... Chinese believe ch'i (vital energy) become stagnant at > concave angles...... > Claudio Ardohain > Buenos Aires, Argentina. Would the windows and doors ease the stagnation? Is this Fen Schuay that you are writing about? I do not know how to spell it! Shari Barnes Oregon - USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:57:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i think it is 20 hexgon, and 12 pentegon. or is it the other way. what you have built is Buckyball. a dome is a large bucky ball, a large viruse, large fotball, basketball, vollyball, ect.. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:05:37 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: MBatchelor Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Dome under construction Skip, I am not sure of the etiquette either but is there a web page you could post them on or an FTP site where we could download them. Matt Matthew M. Batchelor ( MBatchelor@AOL.Com ) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:54:50 +0900 Reply-To: bluedawg@concentric.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: BlueDawg Organization: OREGON - USA Subject: Re: Dome Home Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit asap@SYMPATICO.CA wrote: > > I saw an add in Popular Science for Timberline Dome Homes. > Sounds very very interesting and looks like an awesome place to live. Did they list a www site? I couldn't find them. Shari Oregon - USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:25:59 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Robert A. Hettinga" Organization: e$ Subject: geodesic graphics? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey folks, A while ago I remember reading here about an app which would do geodesic structures if you gave it different parameters, frequencies, etc. I'm looking for something which runs on a Mac, if possible. I'm doing a geodesic-network e$ rant at Apple in the middle of March, and it would be interesting to have some nice pict geoimages to play with, so I could tweak them a bit in Impact. If you want to see more about the stuff I talk about, see my web page in the .sig below... Thanks, everybody! Yes. I know. My reply address is deliberately busted to spoil spammers. Instead, I'll lurk this list for any replies... Cheers, Bob Hettinga -- Robert Hettinga e$ 44 Farquhar Street Boston, MA 02131 The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla Anyone? http://www.offshore.com.ai/fc97/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 06:53:52 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lindsey Organization: Axion internet Subject: Orthopaedic Braces I've been lurking on this group for sometime now. Now it's time to come to the floor with a few questions. I make orthopaedic braces for people with various physical problems. I want to apply synergetic geometry or tension networks to my designs. If this is possible it may have great benefit to may people who are marginal ambulators or children/adults with progressive deformities. Is this way off base? Can tension networks be designed to wrap around complex biologic structures like legs and torsos? I've been reading "A Fuller Explanation" by Amy. C. Edmondson. This book has helped me to realize the potential of synergetic geometry, but no real designs are revealed to me. Is this a waste of time? What else should I be reading? David Lindsey, C.O.(c) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:36:42 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Thatched Domes I wonder if anybody has ever thatched a dome yet? Besides the obvious fire hazard of thatching reeds/grass, to me it seems to be the ideal dome covering material for the following reasons: 1) The little hollow tubes of the thatching reeds provides good insulation properties. (I am not sure about sub-zero conditions, but it certainly performs very well in Southern African conditions. Thatched houses I've visited are wonderfully cool in summer and very cosy in winter. Maybe somebody from England or Scotland, where thatched cottages apparently are also common, could provide input about its performance in very cold conditions). 2) Thatch done well simply looks stunning, both from the outside and inside. The outside thatching reeds normally weathers to a deep grey colour whilst the inside grasses normally retains the original green-straw colour of the thatching reeds. The thatch lasts for a good 12 - 18 years before replacement of the top layer is required. Thatch can also easily be repaired if a patch has been damaged. 3) Thatch, often bundled to a layer of more than 25cm thick, is ideal to smooth over the many compound angles common to most geodesic dome structures. The best of all is that by thatching a dome, no internal ceilings are required which does not hide the beautiful geodesic frame of the structure. The fire hazard of thatch however remains a very big stumbling block, largely effecting its popularity as a roof cladding material. Maybe somebody has come across an "artificial" thatching product or perhaps know of other waste-product which may be re-cycled as the ideal "artificial" thatching material. Regards Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 06:19:04 +0000 Reply-To: jett@sover.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brett Subject: Re: Geodesic Habitat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Tracy Great idea! Why don't you write to Jimmy Carter? I'm sure he could direct your enthusiasm to those most able to implement your synergy;o) >From my understanding Habitat is a very broad organization, you may find you can dig in anywhere!?!? Good luck and keep us posted. regards, Brett ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:02:50 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are referring to the first wrapping I made, it isn't quite a buckyball. If all of the pentagons were flat, it would be. Instead, all of the triangles of the pentagonal vertices were equilateral triangles, forcing the 12 pentagonal vertices to be concave, leading to the 80 sides total, because of the 80 different planes on the interior/exterior. ---------- > From: Menu user > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: chicken-wire wrapping > Date: Monday, February 17, 1997 5:57 PM > > i think it is 20 hexgon, and 12 pentegon. or is it the other > way. what you have built is Buckyball. > a dome is a large bucky ball, a large viruse, large fotball, > basketball, vollyball, ect.. > tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:08:48 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: Thatched Domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May I suggest that someone use something akin to a paper shredder and send 2 liter plastic pop bottles through it? If I am not mistaken, that would make an excellent artificial variation of thatch. True, it wouldn't have the hollowness of grass for the insulating, but then, it would have to keep quite a bit of airspace between layers anyway. Also, it could easily use glue to stick it together. ---------- > From: Venter, Dawie > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Thatched Domes > Date: Tuesday, February 18, 1997 7:36 AM > > I wonder if anybody has ever thatched a dome yet? Besides the > obvious fire hazard of thatching reeds/grass, to me it seems to be > the ideal dome covering material for the following reasons: > > 1) The little hollow tubes of the thatching reeds provides good > insulation properties. (I am not sure about sub-zero conditions, but > it certainly performs very well in Southern African conditions. > Thatched houses I've visited are wonderfully cool in summer and very > cosy in winter. Maybe somebody from England or Scotland, where > thatched cottages apparently are also common, could provide input > about its performance in very cold conditions). > > 2) Thatch done well simply looks stunning, both from the outside and > inside. The outside thatching reeds normally weathers to a deep > grey colour whilst the inside grasses normally retains the original > green-straw colour of the thatching reeds. The thatch lasts for a > good 12 - 18 years before replacement of the top layer is required. > Thatch can also easily be repaired if a patch has been damaged. > > 3) Thatch, often bundled to a layer of more than 25cm thick, is ideal > to smooth over the many compound angles common to most geodesic dome > structures. The best of all is that by thatching a dome, no internal > ceilings are required which does not hide the beautiful geodesic > frame of the structure. > > The fire hazard of thatch however remains a very big stumbling > block, largely effecting its popularity as a roof cladding material. > Maybe somebody has come across an "artificial" thatching product or > perhaps know of other waste-product which may be re-cycled as the > ideal "artificial" thatching material. > > Regards > Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:30:44 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Subject: Re: geodesic graphics? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:25 PM 2/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hey folks, > >A while ago I remember reading here about an app which would do geodesic >structures if you gave it different parameters, frequencies, etc. > >I'm looking for something which runs on a Mac, if possible. I'm doing a >geodesic-network e$ rant at Apple in the middle of March, and it would be >interesting to have some nice pict geoimages to play with, so I could tweak >them a bit in Impact. > >If you want to see more about the stuff I talk about, see my web page in >the .sig below... > >Thanks, everybody! > >Yes. I know. My reply address is deliberately busted to spoil spammers. >Instead, I'll lurk this list for any replies... > >Cheers, >Bob Hettinga > >-- >Robert Hettinga >e$ >44 Farquhar Street >Boston, MA 02131 >The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ >FC97: Anguilla Anyone? http://www.offshore.com.ai/fc97/ > > Bob, My freeware DOME package sounds like what you're after. It is available at http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/html/domes.html It is available in DOS & MacOS executable format. The C++ source code is included in the DOS distribution. DOME is freeware under the terms of the GNU general public license. Hope this helps. Rick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:18:03 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: chicken-wire (again) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Chicken wire does not a Faraday Cage make. Various "kinda right" comments have been made so far, so I will attempt to clarify, assuming that everyone has read all prior posts on this subject. An EMI/RFI cage acts as a "ground plane" around an object that might be very "noisy" (in an RFI sense) or might need to be protected from external EMI/RFI. The important point is that such a cage has many very good low resistance welds between sheets of very fine copper mesh to insure that it is a GOOD ground plane. Chicken wire fails to be a good EMI/RFI cage on three points: a) It has a high resistance. b) It is not soldered or welded to other hunks of chicken wire, and often, adjacent hunks will not even touch. c) It seldom is connected to electrical "ground" (or "earth" if you are British). When testing high-tech equipment, one uses a spectrum analyzer to see the RFI/EMI being generated by the equipment, and the "Cage" simply shields the test from being stomped upon by (for example) WRKO Boston's multi-megawatt transmitter, or a local ham radio operator. Much of the RFI/EMI being produced by the equipment under test "leaks out" of the cage, since the cage (no matter how good) simply cannot contain all the RFI being generated so near at hand. The cage CAN shield OUT weaker signals that might confuse the test equipment. If one had somehow constructed a "good" EMI/RFI cage by pure luck, one would notice very quickly. The construction site "boombox" radio would not pick up any stations when carried into the structure. In other words, any such structure so constructed would be "caught" early on, since the construction workers would walk off the job if they could not hear their favorite music while working!! ;-) If there are any doubters out there, go out and build as good a "cage" as you can from chicken wire, then take a cordless phone inside the cage. It will work just fine. So will a radio. So will everything else. I could even lend you a spectrum analyzer (if you want to pay for the shipping back and forth) if you want to get anal-retentive about it. You are in no danger. If there was danger, it would be worse for people who had tin roofs on their houses, which are solid metal. The chicken wire MIGHT make a half-decent short-wave radio antenna if you bothered to do some soldering/welding between hunks of chicken wire, and connected a wire to the mesh that you could hook to a shortwave receiver, but don't ask me to calculate the impedance of such an antenna for you!! I think it is slihtly funny that comments were made about the "danger" of electrical fields, when those comments were most likely typed inches away from the biggest electrical field the commentators have ever been near - the Cathode Ray Tube display on his/her computer. Yep, the biggest, nastiest, most evil electrical/magnetic fields in most people's houses are the display for their computer, and their TV. This does not stop people from getting very close to both for hours on end. I am more concerned about the mind-numbing effects of using such displays for hours on end than I am about the electrical fields produced. Correlation is not causation. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:48:17 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: jack lydick Subject: building experience Now that's more like it! Shari asked if anyone has building experience ? I have done at least 15 start to finish, from 30' to 60' dia. and have done shell only in another 30 from 35' to 90' in dia.. All have proved to be less expensive than conventional housing. Jack ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:42:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: (no subject) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to Claudio, there is another group called synergetics, that discusses the geometry of Fuller. just search under synergetics, and then check synergetic home page, is doen By Kirby Urner; go to his connection and there you find how you subscribe. i am not sure, i think you have to waite 1 hour for confirmation. someone can help you, if you adk geodesic. my question to you is do you find it easy to think about this kind of geometry, are there things you think can be discovered. my name is mohamed, i live in Holland. may be we have chance to communicate more, we will see; no condition. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:38:42 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: asap@SYMPATICO.CA Organization: Sympatico Subject: Re: Dome Home Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BlueDawg wrote: > > asap@SYMPATICO.CA wrote: > > > > I saw an add in Popular Science for Timberline Dome Homes. > > Sounds very very interesting and looks like an awesome place to live. > > Did they list a www site? I couldn't find them. > > Shari > Oregon - USA Yes it's at http://www.domehome.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:20:58 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Robert A. Hettinga" Organization: e$ Subject: Re: geodesic graphics? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <3.0.32.19970218083040.006c060c@mail.hiline.net>, Rick Bono wrote: | My freeware DOME package sounds like what you're after. It is available at | http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/html/domes.html Outstanding! Thanks much. Cheers, Bob Hettinga -- Robert Hettinga e$ 44 Farquhar Street Boston, MA 02131 The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla Anyone? http://www.offshore.com.ai/fc97/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:13:13 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Claudio Ardohain Organization: Nodo CA - Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA Subject: Re: chicken-wire (again) Comments: To: James Fischer Thanks James for your technical information. I suppose now it's up to each one to consider the criteria of what is unhealthy and what is not. I agree with you in that we need to minimize as well other polution sources. Here is a list for PC hazards: PCHEALTH@LISTSERV.AOL.COM The Health Effects of Computer Use Regards, Claudio ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:08:31 -0800 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: unboring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't mean to sound offended by this last part of the note, but I can't understand why people fail to believe that standard construction materials DO work! If they didn't work, would they be standard? The fact is that 99% of our domes do not leak. Older domes which used fiberglass roof panels, roof windows, and other questionable building techniques did leak, but having been founded by a contractor, we learned early that invention is not always necessary, innovation is. In other words, why re-invent the wheel? Learn to apply readily available materials which have been proven to work in the past. The roofs which leak are old (and old roofs are subject to leaking on any house) or were improperly applied. The lesson here is to get a good roofer and make sure they follow the established techniques for dome roofing. Yes there are more angles, and you may not want a dome roof to be the first roof you ever do, but look at new square/rectangle construction. Those roofs are easily as complex as a dome roof, and they don't leak (unless built by certain less reputable contractors). I don't mean to get grumpy, and certainly invention is important and has been incorporated in domes as well as other products, but do not dismiss something just because it is standard, easily available, and cost effective. That may just mean that it works. J. Michael Rowland wrote: > members, loosening nails and cracking caulkbeads). In fact, I've heard several > times lately that some modern building methods are designed in such a way that > they "can't" leak; I'd like to hear more about this. I understand how a > pillowdome would not ever leak, but I'd like someone to explain to me how a dome > built from conventional building materials can be built in such a way that it > "can't" leak... implying that the design overcomes the shortcomings of the > materials somehow. > > > jmr -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:06:09 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: unboring Comments: To: Jack Lydick Jack Lydick writes: > There are 2 basic types out for production these days, 3/8 and 5/8 spheres. > I don't think anyone is producing a 3/4. Mine is a 3/8, and I have chosen > a 4' riser (although not needed) in the 45' dome dia. and larger. Okay, I'll bite: What features of the sphere's structure define it as a 3/8 or a 5/8 sphere, but not as a 3/4? Are you saying that there is something about the sphere's structure that naturally divides it into 8th's? ...and that there is some other factor that makes a 3/8 sphere (slightly shorter than a hemisphere) or a 5/8 sphere (slightly taller than a hemisphere) desirable, but a hemisphere or a 3/4 sphere undesirable? If so, is it something about the ratio of headroom to floorspace? Is the 45' diameter, then, the perimeter of the base of your dome, or is 45' the diameter of the sphere of which your dome is a 3/8 section (meaning, of course, that the bottom of your dome would be less than 45' around)? Please understand that I don't know what anyone is or is not "producing." My approach to this whole subject is as someone who is (as my wife puts it) obsessed with understanding geodesic structures, from the inside out, with the eventual goal of building an efficient and aesthetically pleasing structure to live in. I don't collect dome catalogs. When I get ready to build, I might look to catalogs for a cost-effective plan, if I can find a design that doesn't seem to inherit all the drawbacks of traditional house-building. > As far as joinery, I don't think that how the triangles are manufactured > has much to do with "leakage". I was speaking not of how they are manufactured, but of how they are joined together to be weathertight. Maybe this isn't a carpenter's usage of the word "joinery" ... I am, after all, not a carpenter. > If you put a roof on properly, no matter what your joinery is, > it won't leak. At least the 15 I have done don't leak. Well, I could easily assert that, if I've put a roof on, and it doesn't leak, then I've done it "properly." :-) To beg the question: How do you cover the dome so that it doesn't leak? How long have your 15 been out there, not leaking? I inferred from Baldwin's "BuckyWorks" book that there are hidden gotchas involved in weatherproofing a dome. Can you enlighten us about the proper way to do it? jmr ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:26:18 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: Thatched Domes Jonathan B. Thompson wrote: > May I suggest that someone use something akin to a paper shredder and send > 2 liter plastic pop bottles through it? If I am not mistaken, that would > make an excellent artificial variation of thatch. I like your thinking, it would certainly put empty pop bottles to good use, but I'm afraid that the resultant shreds will be a little too short for thatching purposes. The bundles of grass normally used for thatching seems to be about 1m in length. The stiffness of the grass stems is also an advantageous property which must be provided by any "replacement material" otherwise the internal thatching laths need to be spaced much too densely. Another angle to the problem is to use natural grass, but find a way of cheaply fire-proofing it - by dipping or coating the tufts with a suitable substance - any suggestions? Robert Conroy wrote: >There is an excellent articel on thatching in the "coutryside" >magazine (July 95). Thanks, I will try to obtain a copy, but just in case I don't, does the article perhaps mention insulation properties and the suitability of thatch in sub-zero conditions? Thatch seems to stand up very well to all the conditions the Cape Town weatherman has in store: hot, dry and windy summers and cold, rainy and very windy winters with nice days when none of the previous apply : ). Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:50:28 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Claudio Ardohain Organization: Nodo CA - Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA Subject: Re: (no subject) Comments: To: Menu user Hello, Mohamed. Thanks for your advice. As soon as I subscribe to Internet I shall visit that page. Surely there are more kinds of geometry to discover. But perhaps it is more real to speak about applying geometries we have not explored enough yet, like, I think, synergetics, fractals or others. A friend of mine - civil engineer - has won a contest at Madrid, using an adaptation of Gaudi's "funicular method" to design concrete warped shells. As you will see these days in this group, there are people who expect synergetics can be applied to biomechanics design. And I think they are right. Regards Claudio ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:16:48 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: Thatched Domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another thought that comes to mind that would seem to fill requirements for structural reasons is thinly shredded corrugated cardboard boxes. Any grocery store has a problem disposing of them, and actually are paying money to do so, considering the contracts for garbage pickup. The cardboard has enough rigidity, can be gotten for nothing for the effort of hauling it away, and is hollow, giving the insulation factor good use. It can also be easily painted, whether it be hand painted or sprayed, by some material that is fire retardant. I don't know of off the top of my head what that would be, but I'm pretty sure it is available relatively cheap. Even if you did have to pay about a $1 US for a square foot of roof using this method for the coating, keep in mind the insulation costs saved, as well as the fact of the cheap roof itself. As an alternative to spraying it with something, you could use some kind of cloth, or perhaps aluminum foil, or something more substantial. No, I don't think aluminum foil would work too well, on second thought. But you get the idea. You might try looking at the Dow website for materials. Maybe you could use the tefzel, I'm not sure about the fire properties of it. ---------- > From: Venter, Dawie > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Thatched Domes > Date: Wednesday, February 19, 1997 6:26 AM > > Jonathan B. Thompson wrote: > > > May I suggest that someone use something akin to a paper shredder and send > > 2 liter plastic pop bottles through it? If I am not mistaken, that would > > make an excellent artificial variation of thatch. > > I like your thinking, it would certainly put empty pop bottles to > good use, but I'm afraid that the resultant shreds will be a little > too short for thatching purposes. The bundles of grass normally used > for thatching seems to be about 1m in length. The stiffness of the > grass stems is also an advantageous property which must be provided > by any "replacement material" otherwise the internal thatching laths > need to be spaced much too densely. > > Another angle to the problem is to use natural grass, but find a way > of cheaply fire-proofing it - by dipping or coating the tufts with a > suitable substance - any suggestions? > > Robert Conroy wrote: > > >There is an excellent articel on thatching in the "coutryside" > >magazine (July 95). > > Thanks, I will try to obtain a copy, but just in case I don't, does > the article perhaps mention insulation properties and the suitability > of thatch in sub-zero conditions? Thatch seems to stand up > very well to all the conditions the Cape Town weatherman has in store: > hot, dry and windy summers and cold, rainy and very windy winters > with nice days when none of the previous apply : ). > > Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:04:41 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: Thatched Domes In-Reply-To: <199702192004.MAA09836@armenia.it.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Jonathan, Interesting that you posted the question on thatched domes as I was about to ask if anyone had any experience with or seen any thatched domes. The reason being that a friend of mine who is living in one of my apartments is a thatcher and is discussing this with a client. The thatcher is from England and has started a thatching business in the USA. We very briefly discussed this last Saturday evening but due to the social event could not explore much detail. He has bee storing thatch at my house in large stacks for the past two weeks and has taken the material to the job site in New Jersey. He is doing a job for John Ringel of the architect/build group The Jersey Devil. The other principle is Steve Badanes. They are doing a two bedroom home that is in the three hundred thousand range with a thatch roof. When he returns I will try to get more information. Somehow I feel you are the individual he has talked with - are you in Virginia? Do you intend to construct a small test structure using thatch? If you see a red S-10 pickup with Virginia plates that read: THATCH 1, we know the same guy. As soon as i can get information regarding this I will post all. Regarding the cardboard/paperboard dome structures. We have tried to get some information from manufacturers with no interest from them. Should you contact any of the paperboard manufacturers I would recommend that you NOT MENTION of your interest in the material as a dome or other building material. The are soo fearful of product liability and law suits that you will not get any help. It does not matter to them that there are fire retardant methods currently available. I personally feel that these structures could be very useful in locations where there is a housing need due to NATURAL or HUMAN made chaos. Jay Baldwin told me that there is a resistance to using these in those situations because the tend to be converted into long term housing and not short term temporary. Soo tents are still the norm. --- I think there is one company taht makes a childrens structure of paperboard. Does anyo9ne know of any none "toy" structures? > I think i remember an article in one of the BFI TRIMTAB Newsletters, maybe someone remembers whih issue. I do not at this time. Will try to locate and let everyone know if i find it. > Hope this helps a bit, good luck - john > > > 2 liter plastic pop bottles through it? If I am not mistaken, that > would > > > make an excellent artificial variation of thatch. > > > > I like your thinking, it would certainly put empty pop bottles to > > good use, but I'm afraid that the resultant shreds will be a little > > too short for thatching purposes. The bundles of grass normally used > > for thatching seems to be about 1m in length. The stiffness of the > > grass stems is also an advantageous property which must be provided > > by any "replacement material" otherwise the internal thatching laths > > need to be spaced much too densely. > > > > Another angle to the problem is to use natural grass, but find a way > > of cheaply fire-proofing it - by dipping or coating the tufts with a > > suitable substance - any suggestions? > > > > Robert Conroy wrote: > > > > >There is an excellent articel on thatching in the "coutryside" > > >magazine (July 95). > > > > Thanks, I will try to obtain a copy, but just in case I don't, does > > the article perhaps mention insulation properties and the suitability > > of thatch in sub-zero conditions? Thatch seems to stand up > > very well to all the conditions the Cape Town weatherman has in store: > > hot, dry and windy summers and cold, rainy and very windy winters > > with nice days when none of the previous apply : ). > > > > Dawie Venter > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:32:57 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: Thatched Domes Thatch - some interesting information emerging from the current tread on the topic and some direct E-mails to me: 1) Generally used with a roof slope of 45 to 60 degrees. (Most domes comply with this requirement. The flatter part on top can be finished with a thicher layer of thatch to compensate. In South Africa the thatched roof hip is normally finished with a neat cement plaster and lately fibreglass capping). 2) 12" of thatch has an R value of 11.6 (12" is a common thickness for thatch). (Compare this with: traditional fibreglass R value of 3.1 - 4.3 /inch cellulose R value of 3.7 - 3.8 /inch polystyrene R value of 3.6 - 4.2 /inch) 3) Combed wheat straw lifespan of 40 years. Water reed, lifespan up to 80 years - average 50 years. (Straw requires the application of a wire mesh over the surface to prevent bird damage, not so for water reeds.) 4) Interesting thatching URL I found: http://www.newforest.co.uk/Clients/Craftsmen/JHTThatching/HTP.html 5) It seems that no geodesic dome has been thatched yet - is this a challenge or what!? At least there seems to be talk in this direction from a postng by: John Belt keep us posted please! Regards Dawie Venter (people in grass houses .... : ) ) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:12:00 -0500 Reply-To: nhan@geocities.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nhan Organization: College of William and Mary Subject: ||||||||||||||||| Check this out!!! ||||||||||||||||| Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ||||||||||||||||| Check this out!!! ||||||||||||||||| > > ||||||||||||||||| Check this out!!! ||||||||||||||||| > > > > This will just take five minutes of your time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > "THE PYRAMID TO SUCCESS" > > > > Do you need a little extra cash? Could you stand to pay off your credit > > cards and loans. Would you like to be able to start saving for your retirement, > > your children's education or just be able to get ahead of the game and stop > > living from paycheck to paycheck. If this sounds good to you, read on. > > I am a student at UCO, and one day as I was surfing the net, I read > > all these postings on how you can make over $80,000. > > Well I believe that if all goes well, and you follow > > the rules and don't try to cheat. It will work. Just follow the > > instructions given in this letter, you to can make over $80,000, > > perfectly legally according to USA Post Office Laws(read on for specifics). > > Don't look at this as a money making scam, > > but rather a true-to-life example to test the above statement. It > > will only cost you $6 dollars, and a few hours of your time. Thus, > > there is some effort involved, because nothing in life is absolutely > > free. Are you ready and willing to accept that you deserve to receive > > a fair amount of money? If so, please continue reading. But if you think > > this is just another scam, I suggest that you don't try it. > > > > Dear Reader, > > > > I thought this was a long shot and would be a waste of time, so > > I decided against participating. However, one of my friends tried it and > > I asked him to keep me updated of his results. About two months later > > he called me to tell me he had received over $80,000 in cash!! I > > didn't believe him, so he suggested that I try this idea and find out > > for myself. I thought about it for a couple of days and decided that > > I didn't really have anything to lose, so I asked my friend for a copy > > of the letter. I followed the instructions exactly, sent out 200 > > copies, and sure enough, the money started arriving! It came slowly > > at first, but after 3 weeks, I was getting more mail than I could open > > in a day! The money stopped coming after about three months. I kept > > a precise record of my earnings, and they totaled $68,498.00!! > > > > THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE THERE ARE 6 ADDRESSES THAT > > APPEAR ON THE LIST, AND NOT 5 LIKE MOST OF THE OTHERS. > > This fact alone results in your name being on far more > > returns. Of course I was thankful that he had shown this plan to me, > > but he was just as thankful that I had suggested the changes to ensure > > that this plan was legal since most people don't want to risk doing > > something illegal. Ill bet that by now you are curious to know the > > little change I suggested in my friends original letter. Well, if you > > sent a letter like this out, to be legal you must actually sell a > > product or service if you expect to receive a dollar. I told my > > friend that anyone sending a dollar back to him must receive something > > in return. You have received this letter due to the participation of > > each of the 6 persons given below. This letter and the plan given > > within this letter are a "product" that you have received. Thus, you > > will be sending $1.00 to each of the 6 persons given below in exchange > > for receiving this letter and for asking them to provide the "service" > > of adding you on their mailing list. THIS IS A SERVICE AND IS A 100% > > LEGAL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY WHICH IS COVERED IN TITLE 18, SECTION 1302 AND > > 1342 OF THE POSTAL AND LOTTERY LAWS. Now, please follow the given steps > > exactly to receive your desired amount of money: > > > > 1. Immediately send a $1 dollar bill to each of the 6 people on the > > list below. Wrap this dollar in a note with the words: "Please put me > > on your mailing list." (In this way, you're not just sending a dollar > > to someone; you're paying for a legitimate service.) Include your > > address. You do not need to include your name. This is the key to the > > program! Also, let each person know what number they are in your > > letter so he/she knows which cycle he is receiving the $1.00 from. > > Make sure that you retain EVERY name and address sent to you, either on > > computer or hard copy, but do not discard the names and notes that people > > send > > to you. This is PROOF that you are truly providing a service, and > > should the IRS or some other government agency question you, you > > can provide them with this proof! Therefore, you will start a list of > > all the people who send you a dollar requesting to be added on a > > mailing list. Actually, you will want to safeguard this list because > > it can generate even better responses and much more money later! See > > step #4 below. > > > > 2. Remove the name next to the #1 on the list, and move the rest of > > the names up one position. Then place your name in the #6 spot. > > Thus, #6 becomes #5, #4 becomes #3, etc., and YOU will be #6 on the > > list. DO NOT EDIT THIS LETTER ANYMORE BEYOND THIS POINT. When you > > are mailing this letter, you may edit the references to the Internet. > > > > 3. Post this letter in at least 200 newsgroups. You can simply copy > > the contents of this letter and paste it to the newsgroups of your > > choice. IMPORTANT NOTE: Please pay attention to the newsgroups in > > which you post. If there is an abundance of similar letters, you may > > want to seek another newsgroup. Thus, pay respect to the harmony of the > > newsgroup and use common sense. There are plenty of newsgroups on the > > Internet. > > (I think there are close to 18,000 of them.) For added success, you > > can also mail this letter as well, in addition to posting in > > newsgroups. Order 200 (or more) names from a mailing list company. > > Two that have been most effective for these names are: > > S.E. Mailing List Advon Distributors > > P. O. Box 15061 P. O. Box B-11 > > Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33318 Shelly, ID 83274 > > (954) 742-9519 (800) 992-3866 > > > > 4. Keep a copy of this letter so you can use it a second time. Also > > keep EACH AND EVERY NAME AND ADDRESS SENT TO YOU as instructed in #1. > > Then, send out more copies in about 6 months, but mail it to the > > addresses you receive (your new mailing list) with each dollar! It > > will work again, only much better! Here are the addresses that you > > must send a dollar to with your slip of paper requesting submission on > > their mailing list, as instructed above: > > > > 1. K.D.D.P. 1310A Jefferson Av. Sheboygan,WI 53081-4343 USA > > 2. Alex Alarcon, P.O. Box 32055, Los Angeles, CA 90032 > > 3. A. Sama, 2509 S. Warnock St., Phila., PA 19148 > > 4. B. Silva, 17202 Inglewood Ave. Apt. 122, Lawndale, CA 90260 ****5. N.H.D., 200 Richmond Rd, CS Box 2421, Williamsburg, VA 23186****** > > > > THIS PLAN WILL NOT WORK UNLESS YOU SEND $1.00 TO EACH OF THE ABOVE > > PERSONS AS DIRECTED. HONESTY AND INTEGRITY IN FOLLOWING THIS PLAN IS > > ESSENTIAL FOR SUCCESS!! > > > > How do the numbers work for potential income earnings? Assume for the > > sake of example that you get a 7.5% return rate. This is very > > conservative, my first attempt was about 9.5%, and my second was over > > 11%. 1. You send out 200 letters, and 15 people (7.5% x 200) will > > send you $1 each. $15.00 2. Those 15 send out 200 letters each, and 225 > > people > > send you $1 each. $225.00 3. Those 225 send out 200 letters each, and > > 3,375 people send you $1 each. $3,375.00 4. Those 3,375 send out 200 > > letters each, and 50,625 people send you $1 each. $50,625.00 > > 5. Those 50,625 send out 200 letters each, and 758,375 people send > > you $1 each $759,375.00 TOTAL $813,615.00!! > > > > It works every time, but how well will depend on how many letters you > > send. In the above example you mailed out 200 letters. If you mailed > > out 500 letters, you would have received $2,061,158.00!! Check the > > math yourself, but I guarantee its correct. With this kind of return, > > you have got to give it a try! Try it once, and you'll do it again. > > Just make sure you send a dollar to each of the addresses on the list > > above with a note asking to be added to their mailing list. Together > > we will all prosper. GOOD LUCK!! > > > > Some valuable, general suggestions: > > > > 1. DO NOT TRY AND CHEAT THIS PROCESS. IF YOU DO, YOU WILL NOT > > ACHIEVE THE DESIRED RESULTS. > > 2. The Internet is a very effective medium for exposing this vehicle. > > However, pay attention to newsgroups, and avoid posting this letter in > > the newsgroups where there are a lot of upset people complaining about > > "spamming." In another words, we are asking that you use common > > sense, and have courtesy to others on the Internet. This may be opposite of > > what many other similar postings may be saying. Keep in mind that > > there are plenty of people out there who believe and want this as much > > as you do. > > 3. Keep a positive frame of mind while engaging in this process, and > > you will receive the amount of money you desire. > > 4. In order to achieve maximum results DO NOT CHANGE THE CONTENTS OF > > THIS LETTER. However, you may edit applicable portions relating to > > Internet when sending this letter via regular mail. > > 5. When the money begins to arrive, it is a good gesture to give 10% > > or more to your church or favorite charity with a joyful spirit. The > > Internet has proved to be a very quick and effective means to reach > > millions of people with your message. This message exemplifies a > > UNIVERSAL LAW OF ABUNDANCE that there is plenty to go around for > > everyone. You will not be hurting anyone and will be creating the > > opportunity for those who read your message to benefit -- just as you > > will -- from the abundance that exists in this universe. > > > > ---------------------------------7007638813145-- > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:56:55 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: Thatched Domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, I'm in Indiana. I appreciate a good problem to solve, and would love to come up with an inexpensive, long lasting type of structure. Also, I have an uncle who is retired, but would like to build his grand children a playhouse, with the problem of having zero budget. I propose (I haven't told him of the construction method yet- He's in Michigan, 300+ miles away) using cardboard boxes and making one of the cardboard domes that Bucky came up with. Diaper case boxes have very strong cardboard ( I don't know why that is, since plastic diapers don't weigh much!) I know from experience, from moving recently. I packed them full of heavy books, and they could take more. Had no trouble getting them. Using thatch for such a roof would be interesting, and if fastening it is no trouble (I've never really looked into how to thatch) it could be an ideal cheap way to do it, since my uncle is out in the country, and has 3 acres that mostly aren't mowed. Perfect for thatching, I would guess, unless there is a requirement that it not be ordinary field grass. If the lifetimes of the thatch are like I'm seeing, I suspect the kids would be in college before the structure died of anything else other than neighbors complaining and forcing it to come down. Another interesting thought is, since it will be under 10 feet high (zoning problems with temporary structures, that sort of thing) if done right, it may look just like a straw shock, or whatever you call the big stacks of mowed hay bundled loosely in the middle of a hay field. Camouflaged playhouse! ---------- > From: John Belt > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Thatched Domes > Date: Wednesday, February 19, 1997 10:04 PM > > Hi Jonathan, Interesting that you posted the question on thatched domes > as I was about to ask if anyone had any experience with or seen any > thatched domes. The reason being that a friend of mine who is living in > one of my apartments is a thatcher and is discussing this with a client. > The thatcher is from England and has started a thatching business in the > USA. We very briefly discussed this last Saturday evening but due to > the social event could not explore much detail. He has bee storing > thatch at my house in large stacks for the past two weeks and has taken > the material to the job site in New Jersey. He is doing a job for John > Ringel of the architect/build group The Jersey Devil. The other > principle is Steve Badanes. They are doing a two bedroom home that is in > the three hundred thousand range with a thatch roof. When he returns I > will try to get more information. Somehow I feel you are the individual > he has talked with - are you in Virginia? Do you intend to construct a > small test structure using thatch? If you see a red S-10 pickup with > Virginia plates that read: THATCH 1, we know the same guy. As soon as i > can get information regarding this I will post all. > > Regarding the cardboard/paperboard dome structures. We have tried to get > some information from manufacturers with no interest from them. Should > you contact any of the paperboard manufacturers I would recommend that > you NOT MENTION of your interest in the material as a dome or other > building material. The are soo fearful of product liability and law > suits that you will not get any help. It does not matter to them that > there are fire retardant methods currently available. I personally feel > that these structures could be very useful in locations where there is a > housing need due to NATURAL or HUMAN made chaos. Jay Baldwin told me > that there is a resistance to using these in those situations because the > tend to be converted into long term housing and not short term > temporary. Soo tents are still the norm. --- I think there is one > company taht makes a childrens structure of paperboard. Does anyo9ne > know of any none "toy" structures? > > > I think i remember an article in one of the BFI TRIMTAB Newsletters, > maybe someone remembers whih issue. I do not at this time. Will try to > locate and let everyone know if i find it. > > Hope this helps a bit, good luck - john > > > > 2 liter plastic pop bottles through it? If I am not mistaken, that > > would > > > > make an excellent artificial variation of thatch. > > > > > > I like your thinking, it would certainly put empty pop bottles to > > > good use, but I'm afraid that the resultant shreds will be a little > > > too short for thatching purposes. The bundles of grass normally used > > > for thatching seems to be about 1m in length. The stiffness of the > > > grass stems is also an advantageous property which must be provided > > > by any "replacement material" otherwise the internal thatching laths > > > need to be spaced much too densely. > > > > > > Another angle to the problem is to use natural grass, but find a way > > > of cheaply fire-proofing it - by dipping or coating the tufts with a > > > suitable substance - any suggestions? > > > > > > Robert Conroy wrote: > > > > > > >There is an excellent articel on thatching in the "coutryside" > > > >magazine (July 95). > > > > > > Thanks, I will try to obtain a copy, but just in case I don't, does > > > the article perhaps mention insulation properties and the suitability > > > of thatch in sub-zero conditions? Thatch seems to stand up > > > very well to all the conditions the Cape Town weatherman has in store: > > > hot, dry and windy summers and cold, rainy and very windy winters > > > with nice days when none of the previous apply : ). > > > > > > Dawie Venter > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:42:24 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: Thatched Domes Hi Johnathan You wrote: > have an uncle who is retired, but would like to build his grand children a > playhouse, with the problem of having zero budget. May I suggest, especially if you intend thatching the playhouse, that a framed structure would be more suitable than cardboard. You need to be able to work from above and below to kind of stitch and tie the bundles of grass to the dome's frame. A method I used to construct a very cheap timber dome frame is to use saplings (say 2 inch diameter for a playhouse), cut to the appropriate dome strut lengths. It really does not matter of the saplings are slightly crooked, only the overall length is important and off course look out for really bad flaws. Taper the strut-end shoulders and screw in a heavy duty steel or brass eyes (like a cup-hook but forming a continuous ring) on both ends. And there you have your first geodesic strut. The tapered shoulders is required to be able to pack a max of 6 struts around the strut connecting bolt. Depending on the properties of the timber used, it may be necessary to wire-tie the ends before inserting the screw eyes to prevent cracks developing - I think it is a good measure to tie the ends anyway. Assembly of the dome is a simple process of using long enough bolts (they should be able to accommodate a max of 6 screw-eyes) with big washers on either end as the dome's strut connectors. Bear in mind not to tighten the nuts all the way before the dome is complete. As you assemble the structure you will have to undo a nut here and there to add another strut-end as the assembly process progresses. Stand back and admire. Concerning the timber used. Most places have a problem with clearing alien or unwanted vegetation, and these young trees could ideally be recycled as playhouse dome struts as per the above instructions provided the wood is of suitable quality. The only costs involved is to buy a few screw-eyes, bolts, washers and some sturdy binding wire. (I suppose bamboo poles would also work, but a different connector method will have to be devised). Drawings are available if the above description seems a little confusing. Regards Dawie Venter (Cape Town South Africa) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 07:59:20 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Skip Kindler Subject: Tire Domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Used tires would be the answer to dome construction. Grind them up and mix them with _____________ to form an everlasting indestructible building material. After mixed poor the material into molds (like jello molds) and then assemble the panels using crazy glue. On the more serious side i do have a friend who used to build sailboats he used a keel mold and would mix lead shot and polyester resin in a cement mixer and poor into the mold to get custom keel weight for customers there were long stainless steel bolts cast in the resin to fasten to the boat.. I do now have a couple pictures of my project at. Http://www.cnw.com/~skips Skip skips@cnw.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:34:47 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Thatched Domes Venter. Dawie ,Internet writes: > May I suggest, especially if you intend thatching the playhouse, that > a framed structure would be more suitable than cardboard. > You need to be able to work from above and below to kind of stitch > and tie the bundles of grass to the dome's frame... I can't help inserting here that thatching sounds like the PERFECT way to roof the sphere that we built from electrical conduit. 3/4" metal tubing was the very cheapest building material we could find (next to PVC pipe which was only pennies cheaper but much less rigid). And if the way to apply the thatch is by tying and stitching it on, then it's a much better way to cover the tubing than what I was proposing to do. Coupled with thatch's extremely high R-value, it seems like the only sensible way to roof my 32'-sphere. This thing will REALLY look like a haystack! Aside from fire hazard, what are the drawbacks? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:39:50 +0900 Reply-To: bluedawg@concentric.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Shari Organization: OREGON - USA Subject: Skip's dome in progress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Skip Kindler wrote: > I do now have a couple pictures of my project at. > Http://www.cnw.com/~skips > Skip > skips@cnw.com I just saw your site and have a couple of questions: Are you building a second and/or third story dome as an addition to a conventional type structure? The pic is small so it's not very easy to tell what's actually going on. Are you doing this yourself? Shari (a dome neophyte from Oregon) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:46:17 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: Thatched Domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: J. Michael Rowland > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Thatched Domes > Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 1:34 PM > > Venter. Dawie ,Internet writes: > > May I suggest, especially if you intend thatching the playhouse, that > > a framed structure would be more suitable than cardboard. > > You need to be able to work from above and below to kind of stitch > > and tie the bundles of grass to the dome's frame... > > I can't help inserting here that thatching sounds like the PERFECT way to roof > the sphere that we built from electrical conduit. 3/4" metal tubing was the very > cheapest building material we could find (next to PVC pipe which was only > pennies cheaper but much less rigid). And if the way to apply the thatch is by > tying and stitching it on, then it's a much better way to cover the tubing than > what I was proposing to do. Coupled with thatch's extremely high R-value, it > seems like the only sensible way to roof my 32'-sphere. > > This thing will REALLY look like a haystack! > > Aside from fire hazard, what are the drawbacks? If I had to live in it, it would be allergies! You might wish to consider that for a permanent structure, that if it is dried, near pollination time, but not properly sealed, it might cause those that are not well suited to the great outdoors some trouble being around it too long. Also, I don't know from experience, but where I am, insects would be a conceivable issue to be concerned about. If insects don't bother you, and a storm of locusts aren't likely to appear, than have fun. The other thing to keep in mind (if anyone knows of it around you) is building codes, restrictive covenants, that sort of thing. If you are throwing it together on the lower back 40 acres and you are the only one around to see it (except for dedicated friends, some who might try to prod you into tearing it down for your own safety because of fire, or it doesn't meet their tastes!) then go ahead, and have a good time. Another thing to worry about other than pollen, is mildew, or rot. For the same reason as bugs, the climate here is such that an unsealed structure wouldn't be very valuable for very long. I think the grass/plant life would tend to biodegrade with much rain if not properly protected. I don't know what your climate is. In my climate, we tend to get about 40 inches ( a little over a meter) of rainfall per year, and quite often, it is quite windy during those rain and snowfalls. I guess you would have to do a good solid job of thatching. What could be done to make things more solid is to create the thatched structure, and then cement it so that it is quite thoroughly covered with a thin layer of cement. This would add considerable strength because of the skin, would allow permanent windows to be inserted, and with a thick enough thatch (or perhaps several layers, after all, all it takes is a bit of labor to gather it!) you could even have something super insulated. About three feet thick of thatch would be good for about a R-33 to R-35, if I read correct figures from someone else on this discussion. Do about a foot thick layer at a time, ad a vapor barrier, perhaps, cement over the top with a thin coat, repeat until done. This would result in a fire proofed structure (if covered completely) that is very well sealed and insulated, and that could easily be wired and plumbed in the exterior walls without too much worry about dumb things like freezing pipes, if you actually plan on living in such a dome. If this should be seen by the general public, I suspect that they would be a little less than pleased to be viewing a rough looking cement dome that looks a bit irregular. So, I guess you might as well think about making it look nice, if you are going to go to this much effort in the mean time. After all, three feet thickness of thatch and layers of cement isn't going to be torn down except on purpose, unless there was some major design flaw. Of course, you would most likely need the struts to be a bit more solid than conduit for this sort of thing, I haven't done any kind of calculations. This would most definitely fall under the category of "Rustic". If you do a nice exterior stucco layer and add the appropriate thick wood beams (decorative, more than anything) you could try to pass it off as "Tudor", though that would at most be a sick joke that would arouse the ire of architects. I don't know which way would be considered more of an insult, I guess it depends upon whether they were a conventionalist (insulted because a dome can never look like Tudor, no matter how hard you try!) or a Bucky follower, because no Tudor house has the properties of a dome, no matter how hard it tries to, since no Tudor I've ever seen seems like it would be all that energy or material efficient, nor as easy to construct by a single person (when is the last time you have seen a single person, or even two, construct a structure without major mechanical assistance working with beams that are bigger and weigh much more than they do??? (;---:) where a dome can conceivably be built by a single person, with rudimentary mechanical assistance for lifting building elements. Well, perhaps these thoughts are a little extreme or strange, but I don't care if people think they are or not. After all, if everybody thought that way, we would still be living a life more primitive than the Amish, and a lot more people would be starving simply because of inefficiency. No lights, no movies, not a single luxury.... Common ideas are strange ideas that have finally been accepted as making some kind of sense, even if it is stupid. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 01:49:58 -0500 Reply-To: John Belt Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: Thatched Domes In-Reply-To: <199702220234.SAA22620@armenia.it.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hello Dawie and Jonathan, etal.... I noticed that Colin, the thatcher is back in town with a load of reed on his truck that will probably be in my yard tomorrow morning. I am going to try to see if he has some time to review the previously posted mail and any new mail regarding thatching. PLEASE POST OR EMAIL DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, POINTS OF VIEW, THAT YOU MAY HAVE CONCERNING THATCHING A DOME, GEODESIC STRUCTURE, OR ANY BUILDING FORM. I THINK HE WILL BE WILLING TO REVIEW AND REPLY TO SOME OF THE THINGS SOME OF YOU ARE EXPLORING. Note: I am not trying to sell anyone of this material or method or anyone (Colin) to you. Only attempting to assist you in your search and exploration of the material and process. In fact it is obvious that it will not meet codes for many situations -- It may have merit in others. -- My desire is to probe the topic to see what could be learned or discovered and let everyone think for their own environmental application. NEXT TOPIC: If you are interested in THE BUCKMINSTER FULLER INSTITUTE and would like information on how to join the institute please send me a direct email and i will get the information to you. This may seem like a sell, but it is sent as an access to a source of an organization that has been of much assistance to me in gaining access to information tools and people. EMAIL ADD: belt@oswego.edu PS: Hello to Alan and Claudio Say Hey, Say HAY to and ASK COLIN ABOUT GROWING YOUR ROOF ????? ENJOY,.... john belt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:35:48 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Thatched Domes Jonathan B. Thompson replies with several ideas about sealing the roofing thatch under cement, etc... I suppose you're right.... The climate where we propose to build is quite humid, most of the year. Therefore, mold and mildew would be a problem. And I was already worried about fire. The idea of sealing the thatch under a layer of cement, though a sound suggestion, no doubt, lacks appeal for me. I was initially excited about thatch simply because it seemed suited for the construction method I'd already explored... already USED. It seems like, by the time I sandwich the thatch between vapor barriers and cement coatings, I'm back to building a strawbale cabin... with a beautiful, sparkling geodesic sphere hidden away somewhere inside it :-( But the idea is still attractive, if for no other reason, because of the high R-value. (...and CHEAPNESS!) But would a 12-inch layer of fluffy thatch sealed between two thin coats of cement have better insulating properties than a 12-inch dead air space sealed between two layers of cement? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:22:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: Thatched Domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It might, but I'm not sure. What it most definitely would have is more structural value. ---------- > From: J. Michael Rowland > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Thatched Domes > Date: Saturday, February 22, 1997 12:35 AM > > Jonathan B. Thompson replies with several ideas about > sealing the roofing thatch under cement, etc... > > I suppose you're right.... The climate where we propose to build is quite humid, > most of the year. Therefore, mold and mildew would be a problem. And I was > already worried about fire. The idea of sealing the thatch under a layer of > cement, though a sound suggestion, no doubt, lacks appeal for me. I was > initially excited about thatch simply because it seemed suited for the > construction method I'd already explored... already USED. It seems like, by the > time I sandwich the thatch between vapor barriers and cement coatings, I'm back > to building a strawbale cabin... with a beautiful, sparkling geodesic sphere > hidden away somewhere inside it :-( > > But the idea is still attractive, if for no other reason, because of the high > R-value. (...and CHEAPNESS!) But would a 12-inch layer of fluffy thatch sealed > between two thin coats of cement have better insulating properties than a > 12-inch dead air space sealed between two layers of cement? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:19:35 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Thatched Domes John Belt writes: > PLEASE POST OR EMAIL DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, POINTS OF VIEW, THAT > YOU MAY HAVE CONCERNING THATCHING A DOME, GEODESIC STRUCTURE, OR ANY > BUILDING FORM. Right. I'm interested in thatching a 32' diameter sphere. It's composed of metal tubing. Each strut is approximately 8.5 to 10' long... big, empty triangles. Would thatching work for this? If not for a dwelling, maybe for a barn? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 06:00:47 +0000 Reply-To: theearth@worldnet.att.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Sean O'Brien Subject: I seem to be a verb In-Reply-To: <32F85BA0.763@xtra.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Does anyone understand, or have the key to understanding, Fuller's book I Seem to be a Verb? Sean theearth@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:58:15 -0500 Reply-To: John Belt Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: I seem to be a verb Comments: To: theearth@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <19970223105710.AAA21887@carpediem3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Maybe this will help. DON'T BE A NOUN. You were taught that you are a noun (person, place or thing). Fuller saw himself as a verb(doing-action). The book with co-authors Jerome Agel and Quentin Fiore -- is out of print but i find them in used bookstores more frequently now than a few years back. It was reprinted several time with different covers. The basic concept is to learn to relate everything to everything. Also to see and seek problems and solve the problems (the doing). Fuller took the approach to solve those problems that needed an artifact for their solution. ie, housing - he found that the dome to be the most efficient and best suited for a manufacturing systems approach. He chose to develop ideas rather than a business, let others do that. The big problem is of course to solve one problem without bringing along dozens of new problems with the new solution (both the short term known problems and the long term negatives that are hard to predict). You are process not a static. A great companion book (another small paper back in similar format) is THE MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE by Marshall McLuhan. J. Agel and Q. Fiore worked with McLuhan in producing the book and other related books and media. McLuhan was referred to a Canada's counterpart of R. B. Fuller. I keep these books together on my shelf because they work well together. I recently found a web site for McLuhan and their archive and network group but have not explored it yet. I requested information but at this time have had no reply. This book is also fairly common now in used book stores. Fuller worked with tools, materials and processes of industry to develop artifacts to solve problems. McLuhan worked with word tools (language), as did Fuller, to make us aware of how language, media(communication) and artifacts rubbed together to make us who and what we are - both were visionaries. Well, that is my spin on the book, hope this is of some help and interest to a few of you. --- PS: Unlearning is harder than learning. - To your English teacher you are a NOUN: (what are you taught in Buenos Aires, Claudio? how about you Dawie? -i would expect there is a difference here - in many cultures people are not thought of as isolated from nature as we are taught here) .... English teacher Noun.... Fuller sees you as an energy event in Universe, and wants you to feel it. soo, what is it NOUN or VERB? Another guy who wore tights when it was fashionable once said "To be or not to be, that is the question", BUCKY decided to BE A VERB. TAKE CARE OF ALL HUMANITY, later, jb ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:46:47 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Subject: New Links @ Applied Synergetics Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All! Springtime is rapidly approaching and what better way to pique a young man's fancy than... ...building a tetrahedronal Kite! Plans for building some unique tetrahedronal kites along with some history (they were first developed by Alexander Graham Bell) is at the Applied Syneregtics Home Page http://www.cris.com/~rjbono/ Also new is a link to the Geometry Junkyard (http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/junkyard/model.html) Tons o' fun here. Rick "Enjoying the Breeze" Bono ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:24:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Brant Subject: The state molecule of Texas is. . . Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >From the February 13th issue of The New York Times comes the following: "New York has its official state muffin (apple), Arizona its official neckwear (bolo tie), and Massachusetts its official dog (Boston terrier). Kansans are proud to call the ornate box turtle their official reptile, while Ohioans who drink tomato juice are downing the state beverage. Now Texas is on the verge of getting an official state molecule: the buckyball. . . .discovered by two Rice University professors, and, just monts after they earned a Nobel Prize in Chemistry for that discoverey, a State Representative from Houston is unveiling a proposal to designate the budkyball *the* molecule of Texas. The legislator, Scott Hochberg, an alumnus of Rice, says he has broad support for the measure and expects it to sail through the Legislature. . . .Mr. Hochberg said he believed that Texas would be the first state with an official molecule. . . ."Yes, it is a fun thing to do," Mr. Hochberg said of the designation, "but it also recognizes where the state is going in terms of economic development an our high-tech future." The article does mention Bucky's geodesic domes as the inspiration for the name. It also talks about the controversies that sometimes spring up around designating official state anythings. (got to have that controversial element to any good newspaper article, don't we) The article was written by Sam Howe Verhovek, dateline Houston. Glad to see they're having fun with chemistry in Texas. (Wasn't there a saying once - "Better living through chemistry"?) Steve Brant Trimtab Management Systems 81 Ocean Parkway, Suite 3H Brooklyn, NY 11218-1754 "Charting new routes to the 21st Century" (718) 972-0949 (voice) (718) 972-3465 (fax) sbrant@trimtab.com http://www.trimtab.com (beta Web Site now on-line) -------------------------------------------------- "Only integrity is going to count..." - R. Buckminster Fuller -------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:03:21 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: Thatched Domes, last word > This thing will REALLY look like a haystack! I beg to differ. Maybe this is the opinion of folks who simply picture straw in their minds and then try to imagine what that will look like super glued to a roof. A good thatch job is anything but tatty, rot-prone nor full of bugs. Normally the thatching reeds are "combed" and "pounded" with special thatching tools to a smooth surface finish with all loose reed ends neatly trimmed off. The edges of the thatched roof are finished to a sharp and crisp line with an overall appearance of a well kept rustic look. (It really is worth while finding pictures and taking a close look or better still, visit a thatched structure). Many houses here even include skylights into a thatched roof line and most have dormer windows for the loft rooms. Hotels, private residences, fisherman's cottages, mountain resorts and very exclusive game lodges worth millions of dollars are finished in thatch in this country. It is popular because a thatched roofline blends in very well with the natural surroundings and has an indigenous African rustic-ness loved here, has good thermal properties, thatching skills are readily available here, the material is cheap and renewable, etc etc. Thatch is natural, will last 40 years with minimum routine maintenance every now and then and has been reported to last up to 80 years in the UK. > Aside from fire hazard, what are the drawbacks? Yea - lightning, which also torches the structure. But even for that there has already been a practical solution devised here. Long lightning conducting poles are planted and earthed at strategic points on the plot (lot) surrounding the structure. A lightning-strike free zone is created in a cone shape to the ground from the tip of the pole. It is common to see two poles thus planted for very big houses. Thousands of magnificent thatched mansions are scattered around the very lightning prone hills surrounding major cities like Johannesburg and Pretoria. Fire still remains the only drawback. That's enough about thatch from me. You can bring a horse to the straw but you can't make him thatch, I think the saying goes : ). Dawie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 06:20:13 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: I seem to be a verb >A great companion book (another small paper back in similar >format) is THE MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE by Marshall McLuhan... A wonderful book, yes, but the proper title, believe it or not, is THE MEDIUM IS THE MASSAGE. Wink www.teachnet.com/winkworks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:29:00 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU Subject: Re: Thatched Domes, last word Thatched domes sounds okay to me, but what would it cost to have this done. This is not a do it yourself project. I've seen this done on PBS programs and as I remember the cost was prohibitive. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:53:20 -0800 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services Subject: Re: Thatched Domes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J. Michael Rowland wrote: > Right. I'm interested in thatching a 32' diameter sphere. It's composed of > metal tubing. Each strut is approx. 8.5 to 10' long... big, empty triangles. > Would thatching work for this? If not for a dwelling, maybe for a barn? Try skinning the dome with wire netting, well tensioned, and then thatch onto the netting. When its done you could perhaps spray urethane foam onto the inner surface, and then paint it with an acrylic paint or an elastomeric paint. Perhaps the thatch could be sprayed and impregnated with an acrylic resin. This could be a sealer and a preserver. The acrylic resin may require the addition of a UV stabiliser such as benzophenone. A warning - birds will regard a thatched roof, of whatever material, as an excellent source of nest material. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:47:51 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Thatched Domes, last word Venter. Dawie writes, in reply to my exclamation: >> This thing will REALLY look like a haystack! [sez I] > > I beg to differ. Maybe this is the opinion of folks who simply > picture straw in their minds and then try to imagine what that will > look like super glued to a roof. A good thatch job is anything but > tatty, rot-prone nor full of bugs. I stand corrected... although I still imagine, if I am to do this thatch job myself, then it probably *will* end up looking like a haystack :-) at least until I get lots of practice. There's an indigenous grass hereabouts called "sage grass" that grows about 3 feet tall and dries, still standing, to a rich red tan color... one of my favorite colors. I wonder if this would work as thatch material? Also, the bug part had occurred to me... and I'm glad to hear statements to the contrary. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:36:45 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: New Links @ Applied Synergetics Rick Bono writes: > Springtime is rapidly approaching and what better way to pique a > young man's fancy than... > > ...building a tetrahedronal Kite! Funny you should mention it... I just bought a very interesting book named "KiteWorks," by Maxwell Eden. The section on the tetrahedron kite has pictures of Bell, with his wife Mabel standing inside a tetrahedral kite framework... and talks about tensegrities, with a picture of Bucky with several geodesic models. The book also includes well-detailed plans for building the tetrahedral kite, including how to build the yoke. It's a pretty good book, if you're into kites. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:23:44 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: I seem to be a verb In-Reply-To: <19970224062001.BAA09242@ladder02.news.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII OOPS - Thanks, but JustWINK i didn't. I WAS ASLEEP AT THE KEYBOARD. That would make a big difference at the card catalog or ordering at a bookstore. The title is indeed (THE MEDIUM IS THE MASSAGE An Inventory of Effects). There is a major discussion in an audio tape i have where McLuhan is being interviewed on NPR by reporter_____________,( can not recall his name at the moment. It is a super interview. He starts by asking McLuhan -- why is the medium the message, why is not the message the message? Message is used almost as slang in talking about the work but the title is massage and in the tape the reporter discovers that massage is indeed correct. This does become more clear that McLuhan is reading societies more clearly and deeply than most people(gross understatement). The more you study him the more you feel it. His work does require effort and unlearning and i warn you -- If you are a happy camper, don't pick up the rock(books) they can---- like getting into (deeply) Bucky change you. Challenge all they say and try to prove them wrong. And, oh yes, good luck. Off of the back cover of the book: The Medium is the Massage ( i confess here that i typed it wrong again but corrected it so you would not know) is a look-around to see what's happening-and why! You are changing. Your family is changing. Your job is changing. Your education, your neighborhood,your government, your relation to "the others" are changing. Dramatically! "the M/M" reveals how the medium, or process, of our time-electric technology-is reshaping and restructuring patterns of social interdependence and every aspect of your personal life. How it is forcing you to reconsider and re-evaluate practically every thought and every institution you formerly took for granted.c This dialogue prompted me to find the McLuhan web site and attempt to get the video tapes that are now available. They had tried to email but it was being returned. I did get through this time but my email address keeps getting jumbled (i love it - McLuhan right again). At any rate i received a call from the McLuhan Archive and a FAX with the info about purchasing the video series. Will try to post this information and their page address later, no time at the moment to pull it together. I will be knocked off the system in a few minutes. (McLuhan-right again) peace, jb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:24:49 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Brant Subject: Upcoming online economic discussion Comments: To: Allegra Fuller Snyder , Barbara Burton , Kirby Urner , Gil Friend , Ned Hamson , Deming Electronic Network Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" The following information comes from the online Context Institute News (Context Institute on the web: http://www.context.org) For various reasons, especially including the importance I place on bringing a systems thinking approach to global economic issues, I thought this information would be of interest to some or all of you. Hope you find it interesting. - Steve Brant JOIN AN ONLINE SEMINAR ON HERMAN DALY'S NEW BOOK I've agreed to help moderate an online discussion, starting 17 March, on Herman Daly's BEYOND GROWTH: The Economics of Sustainable Development -- and I'd like you consider joining in! Herman Daly is one of the great pioneers of sustainable economics. Here's the official announcement with the details: The seminar will commence the morning of Monday, 17 March 1997, which we hope will give interested parties sufficient time to purchase and read the book. The publisher, Beacon Press, is offering a 20% discount on the book to the participants of the seminar. See the specifics below. The discussion will focus on the issues raised in the book. Anyone can submit comments or questions but the moderators will accept only those submissions that reflect familiarity with the book. Herman Daly will be online to give his input on some of the submitted questions or answers. We have a distinguished group of moderators and expect a superb discussion. To participate or just listen to the discussion, please send an e-mail message of: sub isee-daly yourfirstname yourlastname To: LISTPROC@csf.colorado.edu If you are interested in the seminar please subscribe now. There will be no traffic on the list until Monday morning, March 17. The discussion will last two weeks. Herman Daly is the recipient of --the Grawemeyer Award for Ideas Improving World Order --the 1996 Heineken Prize for Environmental Science by the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences -- the Right Livelihood Foundation award "to honor and support those offering practical and exemplary answers to the most urgent challenges facing us today." According to David Orr, Professor and Chair of the Environmental Studies program at Oberlin College: "For clarity of vision and ecological wisdom Herman Daly has no peer among contemporary economists. For everyone concerned about the transition to a sustainable and sustaining economy, BEYOND GROWTH is essential reading." The seminar is co-sponsored by: ISEE: International Society for Ecological Economics CSF: Communications for a Sustainable Future _________________________________________________________ Beacon Press is generously providing a discount of 20% to participants of the ISEE-Daly discussion. There are a variety of ways to order the book: 1) Access Beacon's discount order form via the ISEE, CSF, or Beacon Websites, http://kabir.cbl.cees.edu/ISEE/ISEEhome.html http://csf.colorado.edu/ISEE http://www.beacon.org/Beacon/promo/hdaly.html 2) If you're ordering by credit card, fax the Web order form (available via the sites mentioned above) to Beacon at 617.723.3097. 3) Order by phone using a credit card. Call Beacon directly at 617.742.2110, ext. 596., and mention code ISEE. 4) Mail the Web order form, with your check or credit card info. to Beacon Press, 25 Beacon St., Boston, MA 02108, USA. _________________________________________________________ We look forward to a rigorous and stimulating discussion with Professor Daly and look forward to seeing you online. Steve Brant Trimtab Management Systems 81 Ocean Parkway, Suite 3H Brooklyn, NY 11218-1754 "Charting new routes to the 21st Century" (718) 972-0949 (voice) (718) 972-3465 (fax) sbrant@trimtab.com http://www.trimtab.com (beta Web Site now on-line) -------------------------------------------------- "Only integrity is going to count..." - R. Buckminster Fuller -------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:38:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: I seem to be a verb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit e-prime, language that uses only active verbs can give a hint to a dynamic procesess, but it takes time- i am goint to look into it- to understand the process; check system hompage under general sementics. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:17:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: (no subject) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Euler law: any polyhedron that have more than 22 vertex, can be assembled from 12 pentegons pluse a number of hexegons. from an article about B.balls in new scientest magzine. ------------------------------------------------------------------- q. a lot of people in these group are lerning about many many subjects. have anyone find a way to learn more with less, or found a good way to jump quickly but orderly and coherently from one area to another. tag ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:05:17 MST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jan Allbright Subject: Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <331429C5.569@ubu.ruu.nl>; from "Menu user" at Feb 26, 97 12:17 (noon) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Message/rfc822 > Euler law: any polyhedron that have more than 22 vertex, can be > assembled from 12 pentegons pluse a number of hexegons. > from an article about B.balls in new scientest magzine. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > q. > a lot of people in these group are lerning about many many > subjects. have anyone find a way to learn more with less, or > found a good way to jump quickly but orderly and coherently from > one area to another. > > tag > Yes there is. You need only to know pleasure and pain. Everytime you do something right, you get a num-num. Everytime you do something wrong, you get whacked. Nothing to it.... -- /-------------------------------+---------------------------------\ | Mr. Jan C. Allbright | Hewlett-Packard Company | | Regional Sales Engineer | 5070 Centennial Blvd | | NetMetrix Division | Colorado Springs, CO | | Jan_Allbright@hp.com | 719/531-4316 | \-----------------(Opinions Expressed Are My Own)-----------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:00:58 -0800 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Portland Dome Raising Comments: To: Holflin's dome list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To those wanting to attend the raising in Portland, OR: Well, it really is happening March 1 in Portland, Oregon. We'll be working around dome difficult site conditions (you'll see when you get there) so don't expect us to set any dome raising records, but do attend if you have the chance. While the dome format is an unusual one for us, the raising process remains the same, which means it should be a lot of fun. I'll look forward to seeing you all there. -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:48:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: (no subject) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ok, thanks. i try to note that even though my intrest go wide. here is another question for you, if a coorporation is virtual entity how can you redirect this manoster. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:10:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fittery Organization: Instant Internet Corp, Chatsworth, CA Subject: FS: Geodesic Dome parts I have all the metal joining brackets and the pre-cut base plates for a 36' geodesic dome. I am located in Lancaster. Paid over $5K for everything and prices have gone up since then. Anyhow if anybody is interested, email me at elmerf@instanet.com. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:50:00 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Roam home to a Dome Comments: To: "Ken G. Brown" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See 'Buckminster Fuller: An Autobiographical Monologue/Scenario' by Robert Snyder, pages 153-54. Also, this is to announce that my "Bucky Fuller Master Index" is now available on my web site (see URL below). It has been completely reformatted for clarity. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Ken G. Brown > To: joemoore@BBS.CRUZIO.COM; GEODESIC@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Roam home to a Dome > Date: Wednesday, January 15, 1997 3:44 PM > > I would like the words to Roam Home to a Dome. One of the few books missing > from my library is BF's Universe which is pointed to from Joe's Master > Index. Are the words also somewhere else? > > Can someone help me out here? > > Thx. > > -Ken- > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:48:53 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: Roam home to a Dome In-Reply-To: <9702271245.aa15731@inside.cruzio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Joe S. Moore wrote: > See 'Buckminster Fuller: An Autobiographical Monologue/Scenario' by Robert > Snyder, pages 153-54. Also, this is to announce that my "Bucky Fuller > Master Index" is now available on my web site (see URL below). It has > been completely reformatted for clarity. > > **************************************** > * Joe S. Moore > * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar > * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute > * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > **************************************** > > ---------- > > From: Ken G. Brown > > To: joemoore@BBS.CRUZIO.COM; GEODESIC@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Roam home to a Dome > > Date: Wednesday, January 15, 1997 3:44 PM > > > > I would like the words to Roam Home to a Dome. One of the few books > missing > > from my library is BF's Universe which is pointed to from Joe's Master > > Index. Are the words also somewhere else? > > > > Can someone help me out here? > > > > Thx. > > > > -Ken- > > > > > > .- > Hi Ken, John Belt here... I have the words to "Rome Home/Dome" ---did not locate at the moment. I have so many books and reprints in two locations, home/studio that i will have to search a bit. Also it is on a record 33 1/3 rpm, maybe a tape but pre cd. I think it is by Simon and Garfunkle(sp?) It is also at least in part in the Thinking Out Loud video and Bucky is doing the singing. The video is available from BFI for $40 nonmember and $36 members price. Send me your mailing address and i will send you a hard copy when it surfaces. This is open to all on the list---send request direct to me. Can anyone verify or correct me on the LP and the artist(s). HELP -- i think late 70's early 80's ?? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 19:21:30 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: DOME MATERIALS Comments: To: sunstar@aloha.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elan, I'm not a dome expert, but I have formed some opinions over the years. Whatever you make your dome out of, make sure you use materials that can't burn, rot, or be eaten by bugs. That eliminates almost all current single family dome manufacturers. Also, your dome should be self-contained and portable. Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: SunStar > To: Joe S. Moore > Subject: Re: DOME MATERIALS > Date: Saturday, February 22, 1997 12:35 PM > > Joe > I would like to talk with you more about dome information sources on > dome products and types. I want to build domes that have a lot of glass > and glazing. Can you elp me? > > Elan Star > > > > > Joe S. Moore wrote: > > > > I myself haven't developed any domes, but there are others who have. > > They may be interested in sending you pics and info about their > > projects. I'm forwarding a copy of this post to the Geodesic and > > Dome lists which have many subscribers interested in various aspects > > of dome technology. > > > > ---------- > > > From: SunStar > > > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > > > Subject: > > > Date: Saturday, November 09, 1996 4:07 AM > > > > > > Aloha > > > Can you please send me as many printed materials and photos of > > your > > > domes when you have time? I am very interested in your domes and > > would > > > like to know more about your work. > > > http://www.sunstock.com > > > > > > address: 1600 a mokulua drive > > > kailua, hawaii 96734 > > > 808 262-8375 & 261-6132 > > > .- > .- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:15:15 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Shon Lenzo Subject: Re: DOME MATERIALS In-Reply-To: <9702271918.aa25506@inside.cruzio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello- I noticed your post.... I am going to build a dome.. What materials would you suggest??? -Shon At 07:21 PM 2/27/97 -0800, you wrote: >Elan, > >I'm not a dome expert, but I have formed some opinions over the years. >Whatever you make your dome out of, make sure you use materials that can't >burn, rot, or be eaten by bugs. That eliminates almost all current single >family dome manufacturers. Also, your dome should be self-contained and >portable. > >Joe >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: SunStar >> To: Joe S. Moore >> Subject: Re: DOME MATERIALS >> Date: Saturday, February 22, 1997 12:35 PM >> >> Joe >> I would like to talk with you more about dome information sources on >> dome products and types. I want to build domes that have a lot of glass >> and glazing. Can you elp me? >> >> Elan Star >> >> >> >> >> Joe S. Moore wrote: >> > >> > I myself haven't developed any domes, but there are others who have. >> > They may be interested in sending you pics and info about their >> > projects. I'm forwarding a copy of this post to the Geodesic and >> > Dome lists which have many subscribers interested in various aspects >> > of dome technology. >> > >> > ---------- >> > > From: SunStar >> > > To: joemoore@cruzio.com >> > > Subject: >> > > Date: Saturday, November 09, 1996 4:07 AM >> > > >> > > Aloha >> > > Can you please send me as many printed materials and photos of >> > your >> > > domes when you have time? I am very interested in your domes and >> > would >> > > like to know more about your work. >> > > http://www.sunstock.com >> > > >> > > address: 1600 a mokulua drive >> > > kailua, hawaii 96734 >> > > 808 262-8375 & 261-6132 >> > > .- >> .- > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:55:29 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bruce Johnson Subject: condensation and rotting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I just signed on the list last week and have been watching for a few days to catch the flavor here and see if this is the place to answer some questions I have about a dome I built and have lived in for about 25 years now. My question is about condensation and resulting rot in the upper north side of my dome.I have seen this in a similar dome(both wood frame construction)and want to find out about anyones experience with this,is it common,is there a solution?I am planning to resheath and reshingle the dome this year,and would like to know if there is something I can do in the way of venting,to avoid this happening again.There is no interior vapor barrier,and there is no practical way to add one either. Thanks,Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 05:11:08 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: SEALED-BID ONLINE AUCTION - RBF BOOKS -----SEALED-BID ONLINE AUCTION----- *HIGH BIDDER WILL BUY ITEM FOR SECOND HIGHEST BID - BEST ITEMS OF MULTIPLES AWARDED FIRST *BIDS ACCEPTED VIA EMAIL OR SNAILMAIL UNTIL 3/31/97 *TIES WILL BE DECIDED BY RANDOM DRAW. *PAYMENT BY CHECK OR MONEY ORDER (PAYMENT AFTER AUCTION) *DELIVERY VIA UPS- $4.00 + $1.00 PER TITLE-SHIPPING&HANDLING NOT INCLUDED IN BID *MONEY-BACK IF NOT SATISFIED - DOES NOT INCLUDE SHIPPING COSTS *RECEIPT OF VALID BIDS WILL BE ACKNOWLEDGED BY RETURN EMAIL *RESULTS OF AUCTION WILL BE POSTED ON NEWSGROUP EMAIL BIDS TO wink@southwind.net ONLY - BIDS POSTED TO NEWSGROUP WILL NOT BE HONORED SUBJECT HEADER SHOULD READ: AUCTION BODY OF MESSAGE SHOULD CONTAIN ONE LINE PER BID, WITH SINGLE ITEM NUMBER FOLLOWED BY TITLE FOLLOWED BY BID IN DOLLARS AND CENTS WINKWORKS P.O.BOX 47186 WICHITA KS 67201 USA wink@southwind.net http://teachnet.com/winkworks --------- MULTIPLE ITEM #40 - UTOPIA OR OBLIVIAN: THE PROSPECTS FOR HUMANITY - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - BANTAM BOOKS 1969 4 COPIES - PPB - 366 PAGES - START PRICE $3 MULTIPLE ITEM #41 - THE DYMAXION WORLD OF BUCKMINSTER FULLER - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER & ROBERT MARKS - ANCHOR PRESS / DOUBLEDAY, NY - 1960 - 2 COPIES - PPB - FAIR CONDITION - 246 PAGES - START PRICE $20 MULTIPLE ITEM #42 - NINE CHAINS TO THE MOON - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - ANCHOR BOOKS,DOUBLEDAY, NY - 1971 - 2 COPIES - PPB - FAIR CONDITION - 346 PAGES - START PRICE $10 ITEM #43 - COSMIC FISHING :AN ACCOUNT OF WRITING SYNERGETICS WITH B. FULLER - E. J. APPLEWHITE - MACMILLAN, COLLIER 1977 - HDB - GOOD CONDITION- 157 PAGES - START PRICE $10 ITEM #44 - GRUNCH OF GIANTS - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - ST. MARTIN'S PRESS, NY - 1983 - HDB - GOOD CONDITION - 98 PAGES - (LIBRARY BOOK) - START PRICE $10 ITEM #45 - SYNERGETICS: EXPLORATIONS IN THE GEOMETRY OF THINKING - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - E. J. APPLEWHITE - MACMILLAN, NY - 1975 - PPB - EXCELLENT CONDITION - 876 PAGES - START PRICE $20 ITEM #46 - CRITICAL PATH - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - KIYOSHI KUROMIYA, ADJUVANT - ST, MARTIN'S PRESS, NY - 1981 - PPB - GOOD CONDITION - 471 PAGES - START PRICE $14 ITEM #47 - TETRASCROLL: GOLDILOCKS AND THE THREE BEARS - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - ST. MARTIN'S PRESS 1982 - PPB - FAIR CONDITION - 129 PAGES - START PRICE $20 ITEM #48 - WORLD DESIGN SCIENCE DECADE R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER / JOHN MCHALE - 1963 - PPB - FAIR CONDITION - 749 PAGES - START PRICE $100 ITEM #49 - I SEEM TO BE A VERB: ENVIRONMENT AND MAN'S FUTURE - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER JEROME AGEL AND QUENTIN FIORE - BANTAM BOOKS, NY - 1970 - PPB - GOOD CONDITION- 192 PAGES - START PRICE $4 ITEM #50 - NO MORE SECONDHAND GOD AND OTHER WRITINGS, BY R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - SIU PRESS, IL - 1963 - PPB - FAIR CONDITION - 163 PAGES - START PRICE $8 ITEM #51 - EARTH, INC - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - ANCHOR PRESS/DOUBLEDAY - 1973 - PPB - FAIR CONDITION - 180 PAGES - START PRICE $8 ITEM #52 - EDUCATION AUTOMATION: FREEING THE SCHOLAR TO RETURN TO HIS STUDIES - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - ANCHOR BOOKS, DOUBLEDAY, NY - 1971 - PPB - FAIR CONDITION - 85 PAGES - START PRICE $8 ITEM #53 - OPERATING MANUAL FOR SPACESHIP EARTH - R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER - E.P.DUTTON, NY 1963 - PPB - GOOD CONDITION - 143 PAGES - START PRICE $5 ITEM #54 -0 APPROACHING THE BENIGN ENVIRONMENT - FULLER, WALKER, KILIAN - COLLIER BOOKS, NY- 1971 - PPB - GOOD CONDITION - 160 PAGES - START PRICE $3 ITEM #55 - DESIGN FOR THE REAL WORLD: HUMAN ECOLOGY AND SOCIAL CHANGE - VICTOR PAPANEK - PANTHEON, RANDOM HOUSE, NY - 1971 - HDB - GOOD CONDITION - 339 PAGES (FOREWORD BY RBF) - START PRICE $8 ITEM #56 - GEODESIC MATH AND HOW TO USE IT -HUGH KENNER -UNIV OF CAL PRESS, CA - GOOD CONDITION - PPB -172 PAGES - START PRICE $20 ITEM #57 - SPACE GRID STRUCTURES: SKELETAL FRAMEWORKS AND STRESSED-SKIN SYSTEMS - JOHN BORREGO - THE M.I.T. PRESS, MA - 1968 - PPB - GOOD CONDITION - 200 PAGES - START PRICE $20 ITEM #58 - DOME BUILDER'S HANDBOOK NO. 2 - WILLIAM YARNELL - RUNNING PRESS, PA - 1978 - LARGE PPB - GOOD CONDITION- 126 PAGES - START PRICE $15 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:05:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: jack lydick Subject: dome raising We will be "raising" a 35' dome on the 8th of March in a small village called Selbyville in southeast Delaware. All are welcome to attend. For directions, email us at domeking@nautcom.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 05:44:44 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Skip Kindler Subject: condensation and rotting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruce, About the condensation. What kind and how much insulation did you use? Was there any kind of an airspace anyplace? About the vapor barrier if the inside is paint able i think there is a paint product which may act as a vapor barrier. Skip skips@cnw.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:52:47 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bruce Johnson Subject: Re: condensation and rotting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Bruce, > >About the condensation. What kind and how much insulation did you use? > >Was there any kind of an airspace anyplace? > >About the vapor barrier if the inside is paint able i think there is a >paint product which may act as a vapor barrier. > >Skip >skips@cnw.com Skip, Thanks for your response.To give you a more complete picture the frame is of rough cut 2x4's(full 2x4 measurement)and there are ship lap pine boards on the inside surface.Inside the wall I insulated with foil faced 4" fiberglas,purchased in 24' wide rolls.The triangles are near to 6' on each side,so I stapled the flanges of the insulation together to fill the space.The foil face is rated as a vapor barrier,but I have a bit of practical experience and have read enough to know that vapor is not going to be stopped by what I have.The last I had read on the subject,which is a few years back now,indicated that there were potential and actual problems with vapor barriers anyway.A perfect vapor barrier with one hole in it funneling all the moisture in the house to one place is one example I have read of.My understanding at this point is that venting to allow the moisture a way out is the best solution here in my New England location. To finish the description of the wall construction,the outside of the frame was sheathed with boards,followed by tar paper and then asphalt shingles.The other dome that I have seen with this problem did have a complete poly vapor barrier and a sheetrock interior,with plywood and shingles outside.His dome was not as old as mine and experienced the rot problem earlier and more severe.Both domes are icosahedron based 3 frequency and both have the top pentagon knocked out for a suspended floor below roof line with a cupola roof and windows above that,creating a small room/space.On both domes the rot is in the same place,the two triangles sharing a common side with the top pentagon on the north side. I feel that there is moisture in all of the walls,and that other sections aren't rotting because of a couple of things.The more vertical sections probably have some air movement inside as temperatures changing inside and out would cause a chimney effect helping to move the moisture and dry it out.The more horizontal triangles on the south side are aided in drying by the suns action,which leaves those two back triangles in the worst condition. I would be glad to hear what you or anyone else has to say about this. Thanks,Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:42:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Carl Rhoades Subject: cord factors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi I've been lurking for several months I wondered if anyone could recomend what they think is the best book (that is in print and that I can buy at the bookstore) for listing the various cord factors for different frequency and form factor domes including standard home type and bucky ball hex and pent type. And if anyone might be able to tell me quickly what the 3factors are and the numbers of each strut required for a standard house type 3/8 and 5/8 dome where: B=the common base of the triangles A=the side of the pent triangles and C=the side of the hex triangle. I would realy appreciate it as I am about to build a 5/8 dome over my 15 foot above ground pool just for the fun of it. I will probably use electrical tubing with the ends flattened and holes drilled in the flat with a bolt through all 5 or 6 pieces. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:45:06 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Claudio Ardohain Organization: Nodo CA - Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA Subject: ON TRAVEL Hi Jonathan, John & Joe. Reading all messages. Trying the BID Books Auction. I will be on travel until March 16. Going to the Andes to study indigenous architecture. I will try to find out how indians built calendar stone wheels by dividing the circle in 41 sectors. Bye. Claudio Ardohain Buenos Aires, Argentina.