From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Sep 12 19:36:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g8CNaSL2012751 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:36:28 -0400 Message-Id: <200209122336.g8CNaSL2012751@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 14211 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 23:29:00 -0000 Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 23:29:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:29:00 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9705" To: Chris Fearnley Content-Length: 928626 Lines: 20038 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:53:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" fag ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:58:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:05:54 +0000 From: * To: peach@lambda.net Subject: "Yours Truly" mm story at Tech (Atlanta) ***************************************************************** This a true story written on my own experience. It involves a 100% m/m topic. If you think this could offend your convictions about life, or you are not an adult yet, please go back. The names of the guys mentioned here were changed, and the places are also different. ***************************************************************** "Yours Truly" (2nd. draft) Here at Tech when using our student Internet accounts, the only newsgroups in which we can post messages, to get in touch with people for personal interest topics, are the penpals and personals groups. Obviously, these groups are not the best way for gay students to get in touch on campus using the Internet. The rest of the newsgroup are oriented to any class discussion, or some other academic topic. Even when it was Fall, my body was living a Spring time, and I was feeling the need of meeting someone on campus and have some good time. One night, I was surfing in the Internet once again our penpal and personal newsgroups trying to identify a clue, or any discrete message of any other male student trying to find the same that I was looking for. And then I got one! Yes, it was a guy, named BJ, 24 yo, in shape, trying to find someone to hang out with. He also mentioned something related with going to the movies, and practice a sport together. He didn't mention any sex preference, so I thought it was an open message trying to attract some other guy. In deed, I replied that message, describing myself: male, 26 yo, 5'11", athletically built, and 164#. I also mentioned that I was gay, but my main interest it was to meet new people on campus, and have a healthy and safe friendship. I guess, I didn't believe to myself this last part of my response, but it was partially true. By that time, I was just horny. One day, two days, three days, and I didn't get his answer back. At the fourth day, someone called Daniel sent me an email saying that he was a BJ's close friend with a open mind about gay relationships, and that BJ had told him about my message. Daniel's message was clear. He said that BJ was not gay, and that he was looking for another kind of friendship. I replied the message saying that I was sorry, and I hoped that BJ was not feeling offended about my offering. And I added a note saying to Daniel that please let BJ know that his posting was so open, and it can be easily misunderstood by some other "guy". Well, anyway, there I was again: alone with me. It is incredible how much energy is spent or wasted while writing a message like that, and also waiting for an answer. I was feeling exhausted, but at the same time finals were coming soon, and I had to take care of my study. So, I forgot about BJ, and my intentions of finding a close friend on campus. Winter quarter started, and I had met some gay students on campus. I use to have a good time with them, but only that. I was looking for more. And being a natural straight acting guy, I also like gay guys with a masculine natural behavior. And most of my new gay friends on campus were just over-acting a masculine behavior trying to hide their weaknesses. At the end of the Winter, two weeks before finals. I found an email coming from BJ. The subject of this message was a shy "Hi", but he was enough sincere, and direct about his intentions in the contents. Well, he said that last quarter I had wrote to him an email that he never replied. And he was sorry about let me know his thoughts using a third person. He went to the point, saying that he was a straight guy but lately he had been feeling curious. I got the feeling, Oh my God! I know myself enough and I knew that something very strong was about to come over me. It had been several months since I had my last sexual encounter with a guy, and now something was telling me that I was going to meet and be really close to the kind of guy that I live for. He ended his message saying that he was available for a discrete conversation or email exchange. And he said bye with the most lovely phrase that I have ever got from a guy "Yours truly." It was like dreaming awake. I really didn't like the idea of focusing this new experience on only sex. I wanted more, and I was really excited about knowing the common things that we could have, start a friendship, and then see if a relationship was feasible. Maybe I was thinking too fast. But anyway I took my time, and he got my response two days after I received his initial message. On his email he used the words "respect" and "discretion", and I was happy about that, they are also my favorite words when I meet new gay friends. But he said that he was not gay, and things could be a little different. Therefore, I emphasize these words in my response, adding that I was glad of exploring the idea of being good friends, and I preferred that he started putting the cards on the table. Things were shaping better. On his next mail, he mentioned an ended relationship with a girl, his trends on feeling curious, and being desease free. So, the healthy friend that I wanted to meet was there, somewhere on campus. And he was willing to get in touch with me. We crossed some other mail in which he told me about his hobbies: hiking, working out not too hard, and the idea of maybe playing the guitar in a band. All his mail had the "Yours Truly" saying bye. We were not focusing our starting friendship on sex, I loved that. Well, sex is for me the maximum expression of union and agreement in a gay relationship. I really enjoy that aspect, but I think that it must not be the central point, or at least apparently it mustn't be. The big day was near, the next Wednesday I emailed BJ telling that I wanted to talk to him personally, and that I was going to stay in my lab working until 10:30 in the night. He quickly answered, and said that he was going also to work, but that around 9:30 he hoped to be done. At 9:00pm he emailed me saying that he was ready to come to my lab, and I nervously agreed his announcement. It was raining, and he told me he had to walk to reach my lab. My mind was flying: he had his work done before the time he originally told me, he didn't care about the rain and was coming to me, I had never seen him before, and he had never seen to me either. It was maybe too much for a night. My phone rang, he had reached my building, and was trying to get in. He said "are you Rob?", and I said "yes, I'll be downstairs soon, give me two seconds.". Two seconds were too much time, in half second, I was there opening the door. His umbrella was completely wet, and I told him about going up to my workplace. BJ is about 5'10, dark hair, dark brown eyes, and owner of a marvelous smile. He was still wearing his raincoat, but I could see how well shaped their muscles were as he moved. After watching his strong hands and a thick wrists, my instincts were about to take control of my acts. So, trying to get rid of these kind of thoughts, I told him about my work, and the things that I used to do there. We had a map near, and he showed me the location of his hometown. My real intention for that night was just to meet each other, and then talk about his main interest: to satisfy his curiosity. I couldn't convey this idea; we had that night for us. My eyes were exploring his eyes, and I felt that his eyes were exploring mine too. "You are a cute guy", I said while I grazed my hand quickly against his hand. "What...", he said while wrinkling. I guess his ears were not ready to hear something like that coming from another guy. He finally smiled, and I went to paradise, and came back to earth while that smile was present. What a beatiful smile! BJ said that maybe it was a good idea to go out and walk. But it was still raining, and I suggested that maybe we could take my car and go somewhere else. He said "OK". "Where do you want to go?", I asked. He said "I don't know, maybe a place where we can talk." Then, I realized that it was the moment, and maybe I was not ready. I share an apartment with two straight roommates, an by that time they for sure were there. Where should I take him?. I was not able, to tell him about postponing that close encounter he was curious about, maybe because I was feeling too much attracted to him. We went around campus, and finally we took 10th street heading to Piedmont Park. When he saw the darkness of the Park, he asked me "what's that?", I answered saying that it is a park where gay people use to come, and many of them have their houses around it. Then, I drove to the Park main entrance, and that sign of "NO ENTER" was not on our way. So, I passed the bridge and parked in front of the lake watching some of the Midtwon buildings. I turn off the car, and soon the glasses got blurred because of the rain, and our intense breathing. No other car was around. We were ready... I looked his eyes directly, and asked him if he had kissed a guy before. He obviously said no, and he also said that he knew my answer about the same question. Then I approached to him, and we kissed tenderly, but at the same time desperately. Our tongues were talking frenetically the same language. We stopped, and then we kissed again. I went to his chest, and he partially unbuttoned his shirt, while I was touching his bulge with my elbow. I unbuttoned his pants, asking him what kind of underwear he likes. He said boxers, and I started to feel his dick through his boxers instead of grab it directly. Finally, I put his dick on my mouth and kiss it. It was a thick 7.5 inches juicy cock. Then he went to my pants, touched my legs and my tremendous hard on. I let him to undo my zipper, and made easier to him to grab my dick. He kissed my dick, and started sucking it. Being his first time, it was perfect. I never felt his teeth against the head of my cock, and this sometimes takes time to be learned, either for girls or guys. So, I completely enjoyed his sucking. My dick is about 7.0" when hard, but I was so nervous, and I guess I didn't have a full erection all the time. I remember that there was a moment when he put it all in his mouth, and his warm tongue was trying to play a wet game with the head. It was time to go back to his penis, and before that, we kissed once again. I grabbed his cock, and put it in my mouth one more time. We both had moved back our seats in the car, and now we had more space to release our desires. "Rub it!" he said. I closed my eyes, and started rubbing his dick while I kept the head still in my mouth. Suddenly, the volcano made eruption. He was strongly shooting in my mouth, his big balls were contracting and pushing his load against my throat. My mouth was full, and I was not able to swallow all that, it was too much. I opened the door of the car, and put all those millions of "little BJ"s out of my mouth. After that, his face expression changed, and I have never seen again that marvelous smile that was mine for one night, and receiving his "Yours Truly"s that made me fly either. He finally emailed me, and said that he was needing time to think about his sexual preferences, he doesn't want any confusion on his life now, and will continue trying with girls. I can understand that, and respect his personal opinion. "If I could change the world": Eric Clapton. ************************************************************ END OF THE STORY. I want to learn constructively of this experience. I'd appreciate your comments. bye Rob. ------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:00:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: The ICDD Clinics on X-ray Powder Diffraction and X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:05:54 +0000 From: * To: peach@lambda.net Subject: "Yours Truly" mm story at Tech (Atlanta) ***************************************************************** This a true story written on my own experience. It involves a 100% m/m topic. If you think this could offend your convictions about life, or you are not an adult yet, please go back. The names of the guys mentioned here were changed, and the places are also different. ***************************************************************** "Yours Truly" (2nd. draft) Here at Tech when using our student Internet accounts, the only newsgroups in which we can post messages, to get in touch with people for personal interest topics, are the penpals and personals groups. Obviously, these groups are not the best way for gay students to get in touch on campus using the Internet. The rest of the newsgroup are oriented to any class discussion, or some other academic topic. Even when it was Fall, my body was living a Spring time, and I was feeling the need of meeting someone on campus and have some good time. One night, I was surfing in the Internet once again our penpal and personal newsgroups trying to identify a clue, or any discrete message of any other male student trying to find the same that I was looking for. And then I got one! Yes, it was a guy, named BJ, 24 yo, in shape, trying to find someone to hang out with. He also mentioned something related with going to the movies, and practice a sport together. He didn't mention any sex preference, so I thought it was an open message trying to attract some other guy. In deed, I replied that message, describing myself: male, 26 yo, 5'11", athletically built, and 164#. I also mentioned that I was gay, but my main interest it was to meet new people on campus, and have a healthy and safe friendship. I guess, I didn't believe to myself this last part of my response, but it was partially true. By that time, I was just horny. One day, two days, three days, and I didn't get his answer back. At the fourth day, someone called Daniel sent me an email saying that he was a BJ's close friend with a open mind about gay relationships, and that BJ had told him about my message. Daniel's message was clear. He said that BJ was not gay, and that he was looking for another kind of friendship. I replied the message saying that I was sorry, and I hoped that BJ was not feeling offended about my offering. And I added a note saying to Daniel that please let BJ know that his posting was so open, and it can be easily misunderstood by some other "guy". Well, anyway, there I was again: alone with me. It is incredible how much energy is spent or wasted while writing a message like that, and also waiting for an answer. I was feeling exhausted, but at the same time finals were coming soon, and I had to take care of my study. So, I forgot about BJ, and my intentions of finding a close friend on campus. Winter quarter started, and I had met some gay students on campus. I use to have a good time with them, but only that. I was looking for more. And being a natural straight acting guy, I also like gay guys with a masculine natural behavior. And most of my new gay friends on campus were just over-acting a masculine behavior trying to hide their weaknesses. At the end of the Winter, two weeks before finals. I found an email coming from BJ. The subject of this message was a shy "Hi", but he was enough sincere, and direct about his intentions in the contents. Well, he said that last quarter I had wrote to him an email that he never replied. And he was sorry about let me know his thoughts using a third person. He went to the point, saying that he was a straight guy but lately he had been feeling curious. I got the feeling, Oh my God! I know myself enough and I knew that something very strong was about to come over me. It had been several months since I had my last sexual encounter with a guy, and now something was telling me that I was going to meet and be really close to the kind of guy that I live for. He ended his message saying that he was available for a discrete conversation or email exchange. And he said bye with the most lovely phrase that I have ever got from a guy "Yours truly." It was like dreaming awake. I really didn't like the idea of focusing this new experience on only sex. I wanted more, and I was really excited about knowing the common things that we could have, start a friendship, and then see if a relationship was feasible. Maybe I was thinking too fast. But anyway I took my time, and he got my response two days after I received his initial message. On his email he used the words "respect" and "discretion", and I was happy about that, they are also my favorite words when I meet new gay friends. But he said that he was not gay, and things could be a little different. Therefore, I emphasize these words in my response, adding that I was glad of exploring the idea of being good friends, and I preferred that he started putting the cards on the table. Things were shaping better. On his next mail, he mentioned an ended relationship with a girl, his trends on feeling curious, and being desease free. So, the healthy friend that I wanted to meet was there, somewhere on campus. And he was willing to get in touch with me. We crossed some other mail in which he told me about his hobbies: hiking, working out not too hard, and the idea of maybe playing the guitar in a band. All his mail had the "Yours Truly" saying bye. We were not focusing our starting friendship on sex, I loved that. Well, sex is for me the maximum expression of union and agreement in a gay relationship. I really enjoy that aspect, but I think that it must not be the central point, or at least apparently it mustn't be. The big day was near, the next Wednesday I emailed BJ telling that I wanted to talk to him personally, and that I was going to stay in my lab working until 10:30 in the night. He quickly answered, and said that he was going also to work, but that around 9:30 he hoped to be done. At 9:00pm he emailed me saying that he was ready to come to my lab, and I nervously agreed his announcement. It was raining, and he told me he had to walk to reach my lab. My mind was flying: he had his work done before the time he originally told me, he didn't care about the rain and was coming to me, I had never seen him before, and he had never seen to me either. It was maybe too much for a night. My phone rang, he had reached my building, and was trying to get in. He said "are you Rob?", and I said "yes, I'll be downstairs soon, give me two seconds.". Two seconds were too much time, in half second, I was there opening the door. His umbrella was completely wet, and I told him about going up to my workplace. BJ is about 5'10, dark hair, dark brown eyes, and owner of a marvelous smile. He was still wearing his raincoat, but I could see how well shaped their muscles were as he moved. After watching his strong hands and a thick wrists, my instincts were about to take control of my acts. So, trying to get rid of these kind of thoughts, I told him about my work, and the things that I used to do there. We had a map near, and he showed me the location of his hometown. My real intention for that night was just to meet each other, and then talk about his main interest: to satisfy his curiosity. I couldn't convey this idea; we had that night for us. My eyes were exploring his eyes, and I felt that his eyes were exploring mine too. "You are a cute guy", I said while I grazed my hand quickly against his hand. "What...", he said while wrinkling. I guess his ears were not ready to hear something like that coming from another guy. He finally smiled, and I went to paradise, and came back to earth while that smile was present. What a beatiful smile! BJ said that maybe it was a good idea to go out and walk. But it was still raining, and I suggested that maybe we could take my car and go somewhere else. He said "OK". "Where do you want to go?", I asked. He said "I don't know, maybe a place where we can talk." Then, I realized that it was the moment, and maybe I was not ready. I share an apartment with two straight roommates, an by that time they for sure were there. Where should I take him?. I was not able, to tell him about postponing that close encounter he was curious about, maybe because I was feeling too much attracted to him. We went around campus, and finally we took 10th street heading to Piedmont Park. When he saw the darkness of the Park, he asked me "what's that?", I answered saying that it is a park where gay people use to come, and many of them have their houses around it. Then, I drove to the Park main entrance, and that sign of "NO ENTER" was not on our way. So, I passed the bridge and parked in front of the lake watching some of the Midtwon buildings. I turn off the car, and soon the glasses got blurred because of the rain, and our intense breathing. No other car was around. We were ready... I looked his eyes directly, and asked him if he had kissed a guy before. He obviously said no, and he also said that he knew my answer about the same question. Then I approached to him, and we kissed tenderly, but at the same time desperately. Our tongues were talking frenetically the same language. We stopped, and then we kissed again. I went to his chest, and he partially unbuttoned his shirt, while I was touching his bulge with my elbow. I unbuttoned his pants, asking him what kind of underwear he likes. He said boxers, and I started to feel his dick through his boxers instead of grab it directly. Finally, I put his dick on my mouth and kiss it. It was a thick 7.5 inches juicy cock. Then he went to my pants, touched my legs and my tremendous hard on. I let him to undo my zipper, and made easier to him to grab my dick. He kissed my dick, and started sucking it. Being his first time, it was perfect. I never felt his teeth against the head of my cock, and this sometimes takes time to be learned, either for girls or guys. So, I completely enjoyed his sucking. My dick is about 7.0" when hard, but I was so nervous, and I guess I didn't have a full erection all the time. I remember that there was a moment when he put it all in his mouth, and his warm tongue was trying to play a wet game with the head. It was time to go back to his penis, and before that, we kissed once again. I grabbed his cock, and put it in my mouth one more time. We both had moved back our seats in the car, and now we had more space to release our desires. "Rub it!" he said. I closed my eyes, and started rubbing his dick while I kept the head still in my mouth. Suddenly, the volcano made eruption. He was strongly shooting in my mouth, his big balls were contracting and pushing his load against my throat. My mouth was full, and I was not able to swallow all that, it was too much. I opened the door of the car, and put all those millions of "little BJ"s out of my mouth. After that, his face expression changed, and I have never seen again that marvelous smile that was mine for one night, and receiving his "Yours Truly"s that made me fly either. He finally emailed me, and said that he was needing time to think about his sexual preferences, he doesn't want any confusion on his life now, and will continue trying with girls. I can understand that, and respect his personal opinion. "If I could change the world": Eric Clapton. ************************************************************ END OF THE STORY. I want to learn constructively of this experience. I'd appreciate your comments. bye Rob. ------------------------------------------------------- At 07:01 PM 4/28/97 GMT, you wrote: >The International Centre for Diffraction Data (ICDD) is a nonprofit >scientific >organization that collects, edits, publishes, and distributes powder >diffraction data for the identification of crystalline materials. > >The International Centre for Diffraction Data (ICDD) is committed to >promoting the applications of materials characterization methods in >science and technology by providing educational programs such as the ICDD >Clinics. The ICDD Clinics on X-ray Powder Diffraction and X-ray >Fluorescence Spectrometry are conducted annually in June. The format >combines theoretical and practical applications with ample time for the >students to discuss their applications and problems with the faculty. In >pursuing its dynamic commitment to education, the ICDD offers a limited >number of tuition waivers for the Clinic on X-ray Powder Diffraction. The >four sessions are described as follows: > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >ICDD Clinic on X-ray Powder Diffraction > >Session I - Fundamentals of X-ray Powder Diffraction > >June 2-6, 1997 > >Covering instrumentation, specimen preparation, data acquisition, and >qualitative phase analysis. > >Session II - Advanced Methods in X-ray Powder Diffraction > >June 9-13, 1997 > >Emphasizing computer-based methods of data collection and interpretation, >both for qualitative and quantitative phase analysis. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >ICDD Clinic on X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometry > >Session I - Fundamentals of X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometry > >June 16-20, 1997 > >Covering basics of X-ray spectra, instrumentation design, methods of >qualitative and quantitative analysis, specimen preparation and >applications for both wavelength and energy dispersive spectrometry. > >Session II - Advanced Methods in X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometry > >June 23-27, 1997 > >Emphasizing quantitative methods, use of automated X-ray spectrometers, >review of mathematical matrix correction procedures, and new developments >in XRF. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Fees and Inquiries > >The $1,250 fee for each session includes textbook, lecture notes, use of >computers (where applicable), and lunch. Please direct all inquiries and >requests for a comprehensive brochure (available January 1997) to: > >Manager, Schools & Conferences >International Centre for Diffraction Data >12 Campus Boulevard >Newtown Square, PA 19073-3273 >Tel: (610) 325-9814 >Fax: 610/325-9823 >E-mail: clinics@icdd.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:00:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Thu May 1 00:00:03 PDT 1997. If you are tired of receiving this message twice per month, and are reading bit.listserv.fnord-l through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. (And you don't want to look like a jerk having everyone see your "SUB GEODESIC John Q. Public" command! ;^) ) This list is also linked to USENET in the group bit.listserv.geodesic If you want to receive copies of everything you send to the list, use the command SET GEODESIC REPRO. If you DON'T want copies, use SET GEODESIC NOREPRO. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC You should receive a confirmation note in the mail when you have been successfully removed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LIST ARCHIVES: - Reference.COM has begun archiving this list as of: Jan. 4, 1997 - Searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=GEODESIC@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu And of course, Listserv itself is keeping archives of the list, dating back to June, 1992. Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:06:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Bucky's _Everything I Know_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: lec@gate.net (Lee E. Chapman) Subject: Spring break...(M/M) HOT!! Spring Break Surprise By Lee E. Chapman As soon as we crossed the Florida state line Matt took off his shirt. I looked over at his strong, muscular, teenage chest. My cock hardened. He told me that he wasn't going to wear a shirt again all Spring Break. I joined my friend and took my shirt off to. The sun shining down on my chest felt great as we drove in Matt's red Mustang convertible toward our destination: Daytona Beach-Spring Break '93. Now that we were finally on our way I felt a new freedom. I had the hots for Matt ever since that first day I moved into the dorm. I finally found the room and double checked the number before I opened the door. Yeah, this was it, room 214, at Edward Hall. I opened the door and walked into the my new home for the next four years. That's when I first saw him. He was standing there without a shirt, wearing just a pair of white Calvin Klein boxers. "Hey guy, my names Matt. You must be my roommate." he said, introducing himself. I remember thinkin' how much he looked like Marky Mark in those boxers. I was happy to learn that was the outfit he usually wore in our dorm room. "Yeah, my names Lee. How's it goin' dude?" I said, shaking his hand. "Let me help you with those boxes man." he said. I handed him a heavy box. He took it effortlessly. His arm and chest muscles flexed and bulged as he carried the box. I could tell already I was going to enjoy college life. I glanced around the room. Matt had already unpacked some of his stuff. He had set up an IBM computer and an expensive Sony stereo. The new Depeche Mode CD was playing. There was a poster of Marky Mark hanging in the corner on the wall above his bed. "You look just like him dude." I said, pointing to the poster. He looked at me and said, "No way man! You really think so? Well, I guess, maybe a little." he said modestly. There was a set of weights in one of the other corners. Looking at Matt's well-developed body, I'd say they had been put to good use! Matt had brown hair, cut short, shaved close on the sides and back in a stylish cut. His eyes are dark brown and his face was handsome, with smooth skin that glowed with health and vitality. His face looked young, I wondered if he even shaved yet, but I found out that he was eighteen, the same age as me. Matt's body sure was built! His chest was well-defined from his constant work-outs. His pecs stood out from his hard chest like two mountains capped with tiny, light brown nipples. His arms were huge, with large, hard, rounded biceps. His tight stomach was like a washboard, with rippling muscles tapering down to his lean, thin waist. He had no hair on his chest at all, just a little under his arms, and of course down by his dick. I thought mine was big, but Matt's was even bigger, and always half-hard. At least whenever I got a chance to see it. Which, as it turned out, was often! It hung down between his legs 10 or 11 inches, from a thick bush of curly brown pubic hair. The shaft was so wide I wondered how big it must be when it was fuckin' hard! The head of his dick was a perfect heart shape, and a little darker than the long smooth shaft. His balls were huge like two extra large eggs. They hung down low in their skin sac, with just a few brown hairs. His fine ass was hard as rock, and looked good enough to eat, with smooth hairless skin. Matt's legs were just as muscular and developed as his upper body and covered with fine, tiny brown hairs. I found out that first night Matt sleeps in the nude. My parents had been conservative and I grew up sleeping in pajamas. I just thought everyone did. Matt laughed at me when I came out of the bathroom in my PJs. "What the fuck are you wearin' man?" he said. "I am just getting ready for bed." I said. I was embarrassed and a little pissed off he was makin' fun of me! "What do you sleep in?" I said. He slipped off his boxers and playfully tossed them at me. They hit me in the face. I could smell his cock and I felt my dick jump. "I don't wear anything dude." he said. After that night I started sleepin' in the nude too. Matt always did exercises early in the morning. I would lie in bed, pretending to still be asleep, while I watched him work-out. I would have a raging hard-on but you couldn't see it under the sheet. His muscles would stretch and bulge as he worked them lifting weights or doing sit-ups. All of this, of course, still totally nude! Sometimes his dick would even get hard as he pumped the heavy weights up and down, working his young muscles. When Matt went into the bathroom to shower and get ready for class, I would jack-off thinking about licking the sweat off his hot body. I'd taste my own pre-cum, and imagine that it was Matt's. It tasted sweet and manly. I'd picture his naked teenage body and all the things that I wanted to do with him. I had never done anything with a guy before, but I knew that I wanted my first experience to be with Matt. One Wednesday night, a couple of months after school started, I was coming home from studying at the library. Matt had started going to a night class on Wednesdays, and I didn't have anything to do without him. It was the one day of the week that we didn't spend the evening together. I was taking a short cut between the old gym and the computer labs. I had to take a killer leak and I didn't think I could wait till I got back to the dorm. I noticed a Men's room on the side of the old gymnasium. I wasn't even sure if it was still open now that the new gym was being used, but I decided to find out. I really had to pee bad! I tried the door and it opened. As I walked in, a cute young guy was leaving one of the stalls. He was trying to stuff his hard dick in his jockey shorts and zip up his jeans. He looked surprised to see me and acted sort of embarrassed. Our eyes met for just a second, then he looked down at the ground and quickly left. There were two stalls and one urinal. The urinal had an OUT OF ORDER sign on it, so I went into the stall the kid had just left. I was pissing and lookin' around the stall, reading all of the graffiti on the walls, when I noticed a big hole in the divider between the stalls. I looked down and could see a pair of NIKE sneakers under the divider. Next to the hole someone had written, "Stick your cock in the hole for a blow job." Now I understand why that young kid had acted embarrassed, he had just had his cock sucked! I was finished pissin' by this time but I just stood there, my cock hardening. I started thinking about Matt's beautiful teenage body and big cock. Without really thinking, I began stroking the smooth shaft of my stiff 10 inch dick. A drop of pre-cum was hanging on the end of my cock. I wiped it off with my finger and brought it to my lips. The taste made me even hotter! The guy in the other stall ran his tongue around the edge of the hole. I guess he wanted another dick to suck! I was getting turned on being here in this Men's room. It smelled kind of like the guy's locker room after my gym class, when all the teenage dudes are hot and sweaty from a hard work-out. Kind of a sexy musk smell. I was still strokin' my cock and using my other hand to play with my nuts. I was so horny that I just couldn't stand it anymore! I was tired of jacking off and just dreaming about Matt. I couldn't wait for Matt any longer, I needed some real sex! This guy wanted my dick and I wanted him to suck it. I moved toward the hole and pushed my cock through. I felt his warm mouth immediately engulf my swollen cock head. I had never felt anything so good in my fuckin' life! The guy started to move his mouth back and fourth on my cock. I was moaning with pleasure. I was fuckin' the dude's mouth now, thrusting my cock in and out of his throat. I started to cum. I never shoot so hard in my life! I thought I was gonna choke the poor guy. I never came like that when I jacked-off alone. I shoot all of my load into the dude's mouth, he swallowed every drop. I pulled my dick back and was about to leave when the guy pushed a note through the hole. It said, "Wow man, that was some load you shot! Will you meet me here again next Wednesday night at 9:30?" I took a pen out of my EASTPAK backpack and wrote, "Thanks dude. Sure, it was great. I'll see you next week for sure!" I wanted to tell Matt about what had happened, but I couldn't. We would spend hours talking about everything, except, SEX. I just assumed that Matt was straight. I wasn't sure he could except me telling him I liked guys! He never did date any girls, and once I thought I had seen him checking out one of the guys in the locker room who I thought was hot. I wondered about that, but never said anything. I didn't want to risk losing his friendship. Besides, it was probably just my imagination. Still, I never gave up the dream of havin' my first experience with Matt. Now that I had let this dude suck me off, I guess it was just a dream that never would happen! Every Wednesday night from then on I would show up at the Men's room for my weekly blow job. I wondered who the guy was but I never tried to find out. I didn't really care who he was. It never took me long to shoot my load. I would picture in my mind that it was me on my knees suckin' Matt's hard cock! I know it's stupid. But I felt kind of guilty, almost like I was cheating on Matt. Matt had his Wednesday night class, so he never knew what I did or where I was on Wednesday nights. He probably wouldn't care anyway, I thought! Matt and I had planned Spring Break in Daytona Beach for months. Matt always talked about how great it looked on MTV when they covered it each year. I was thinking about all those hot, horny, teenage guys! Now finally, after all of those weeks we were almost there! Here I was in Matt's Mustang, cruising on down to Daytona for a week of partying. We had Pearl Jam's new tape blasting from the stereo. Matt was beating on the steering wheel along with the drums, and I was playing air guitar. The wind was blowin' through my hair, I looked over at Matt. He never look hotter than now, with his hot, muscular, chest covered with tiny beads of sweat shining in the sun. I looked down between his legs. I am sure that he had a hard-on! I wondered who was he thinking about? He looked over, and shoot me one of his famous smiles. I still can't believe the Speedos that Matt had gotten for the trip. He suggested that we go to the mall to get new trunks for the trip. We each picked out a half dozen pairs, mine where kind of conservative: baggy, dark colors. Matt, on the other hand, picked out bright neon colors, and even a pair of skimpy black Speedos! Matt suggested that we go into the same dressing room so that we could help each other pick out trunks that looked the best. I said, "Cool, good idea." I followed him into one of the large dressing room and closed the door. Matt quickly stripped off all of his cloths. I was watching him try on each pair of trunks, and admire himself in the mirror. As he looked in the mirror, he would run his hand up and down the smooth skin on his chest and stomach, feeling the powerful muscles, but always stopping just before his hand reached his dick. After he tried each on, he would face me and ask how it looked. He wanted to know how the trunks, as he put it, "Shows off my cock?" I had a huge hard-on watching Matt try on trunks. He almost looked sexier in trunks than totally naked! He took off the pair he had on and said to me, "Come on dude, we came in here to try on swim trunks. So try on some of yours." I didn't want to tell him that I had a total boner, and it was because of him! He just stood there, his big cock and balls hangin' low between his legs. I turned around with my back to him, got out of my jeans and shirt, and into the first pair of Quick Silver trunks. I turned around and asked Matt what he thought? He told me that they looked great and really showed off my dick. Then he said, "Looks like you have a hard-on dude. Who you thinkin' about? I know. You must be thinkin' about Spring Break!" I couldn't believe he said that! I had to think fast. "Yeah, man, you know it. I can't wait!" I said, relieved that Matt didn't make a big deal out of it. I think I noticed his dick get a little harder while he stood there watchin' me. Was it just my imagination? Then he tried on the pair of Speedos. Matt could barely fit all of his cock and balls in the tiny trunks. Brown public hair was sticking out of the waist band. The pouch bulged out from between his legs, leaving nothing to the imagination. Of course, that's the pair he ended up buying! When we got to Daytona the first thing that Matt wanted to do was check out the beach. In Daytona you can drive your car on the beach! I was proud to be seen with Matt. Everyone was checking out his hot car, and us! I had never seen so many studs in one place before! There were fine teenage guys everywhere you looked, and wearin' almost nothing at all! Their youthful bodies exposed proudly, for all the world to see. Some were playing volleyball or surfing. Others were just laying in the sun, spread out invitingly on beach towels, their stiff cocks pointing up toward the sky. This was fuckin' great! A whole week in the sun with 150,000 hot, horny teenage dudes! We found the hotel and checked into the room. I went out onto the balcony. We had a great view of the ocean and the pool. There were lots of guys at the pool, but one really hot kid caught my eye. He was wearing a pair of baggy bright red trunks and leanin' against a wall alone. He had short blond hair, and a really sexy dark tan. Matt called to me, "Lee, how do I look man?" I turned and saw that he had changed into those skimpy black Speedos. I saw through the thin material that he had a ragging hard-on! "I don't think anybody will have any question about why you're here dude!" I said. Matt smiled and said, "Get changed man! I want to go down to the pool and check it out!" We found two chairs by the pool. Matt told me that he wanted to check out the water. I told him to go ahead. I wanted to get a little sun. I noticed the boy that I had seen from the balcony. He was even hotter looking now that I was close to him. He was sitting in a chair directly across from me. He looked to be about my age, maybe a little younger. His chest was a perfect V-shape and well-defined. I am not sure how long I was staring at him, but I looked up and saw that he had caught me checking him out. He moved his legs apart! I looked around, but no one seemed to be paying attention besides me. He moved his hand down and slowly pulled back the baggy material of his Ocean Pacific trunks. He didn't have any underwear on! From the angle that I was sitting I could see his nuts! He reached down and rubbed his large, heavy balls. He looked right at me through his RayBan Wayfarer sunglasses. He moved his legs even farther apart, so I could now see his whole dick! My mouth was watering. I had such a hard-on, I thought that I was going to shoot my load right there in my fuckin' trunks! He raised his right arm up and ran his fingers through his spiked blond hair. He keep his arm behind his head, exposing his blond underarm hair. I couldn't take my eyes off of this kid. He was hot, and putting on this show just for me! I hadn't even noticed that I was rubbin' my dick through my trunks. When I realized what I was doing, I quickly stopped and looked around. Good, no one had noticed! Just then the boy got up and walked toward me. He sat down in the chair next to me. I could smell the scent of coconut oil mixed with his teenage sweat. "Hey dude, I saw you up on the balcony. Did you just get in?" he said. "Yeah, my friend Matt and I just drove in from Columbia, Missouri. My names Lee." I said. "My name's Mark. My brother and I got here yesterday. We're down from Atlanta. It's my first spring break, I partied all night long man!" he said, looking right down at my dick! "I got some beer up in the room, you wanna go up and have a couple?" he said. "Yeah sure." I said forgetting all about Matt. "Cool- lets go." I followed him up to his room. I was thinking about how he showed me his hot dick out by the pool. I didn't know what I was getting into, I only knew that this kid gave me a major hard-on! I entered the room and Mark walked over to a cooler. He reached in, and pulled out a couple of beers. "Here you go dude." he said. "Thanks man." I said twisting off the cap. As we sat on the edge of the bed, he was rubbin' his dick through his trunks. He reached over and started to rub my dick to. It was hard as a rock. I didn't know what to do. I guess I really wanted something to happen. Why else would I have come up to his room, I don't even like beer! "You really turn me on dude. You liked what you saw down at the pool didn't you?" he said, looking down at his crotch and smiling. The head of his cock was stickin' out of his waist band. His hand was now in my trunks and around my hard dick. "Yeah" I said. He got to his knees, I was still sitting on the edge of the bed. "I want to suck your dick man." the kid said. I didn't have a chance to say anything. He slowly lowered my trunks. He moved closer and licked the pre-cum off the swollen head of my cock. "You're so fine dude." he said. I thought that I was going to shoot right then! He took the whole head into his mouth. He was swallowing more and more of my dick down his hungry throat. His nose was buried in my pubic hair. I leaned back on the bed and started to moan. He moved up and down my cock, this guy really knew how to give head! I heard a key in the door. Someone was coming in the room! I looked over and couldn't believe my eyes. The guy coming in looked just like Mark, but how could that be? Mark was on his knees with my dick in his mouth! What the fuck was going on here? The guy looked at the bed, smiled, and quickly closed the door. Mark took his mouth off of my dick and said, "Don't look so freaked out Lee. That's my twin brother Aaron." "Aaron, say hello to Lee. He just got in town and he has a fuckin' great tastin' cock man!" he said to his twin brother. Mark went back to suckin' my dick. His brother looked identical with the same short blond hair, handsome face, and hot teenage body. Aaron took off his trunks and walked over to the bed where I was lying. He stood behind me. I looked up at his cock. It was huge, about 10 inches long and rock hard. His balls hung down low, almost touching my nose. I breathed in deep smelling the scent of his sweaty, teenage nuts. Between his brothers excellent blow job and his hot cock in my face, I was goin' crazy! I had to have that cock in my mouth! He put the head of his dick right above my lips. I could see a clear drop of pre-cum on the tip. I opened my virgin mouth and slowly stuck out my tongue. I licked the clear fluid off his cock. It was sweet like mine. I just knew it would! I took the head of his cock in my mouth and started to suck. Mark stopped sucking my dick and moved around to where his brother was. He moved his cock toward my mouth. He wanted me to suck both dicks at the same time! I opened my mouth as wide as I could, and took both of their hot dicks in my mouth. I couldn't get enough of their teenage cocks. These brothers were beautiful, and I was going wild movin' my head from side to side, swallowing as much of their meat in my lustful mouth as I could! We had a rhythm going. First Mark would pump his dick in, and then his brother Aaron. They were fuckin' my face like two pistons! I wanted them to fuck my mouth forever! Just then Mark said, "Oh shit Man! I'm gonna cum!" His brother Aaron shouted, "Me too man! Get ready for it Lee!" They both started to shoot in my mouth. I had never tasted another guy's load before. I sucked and tried to swallow all of their hot cum. I didn't want to waste a drop of their teenage juice! I swallowed mouthful after mouthful, but each time they would fill up my mouth again. I didn't know that two guys could shoot so much cum! They pulled their dicks out of my mouth, and moved around the bed to my cock. I was just lying there, enjoying the taste of their two loads still in my mouth. They both were now on their knees. Mark took my dick in his hot mouth, and his twin brother took my balls in his. I watched them enjoying my cock. Having both of these beautiful, twin, teenage boys sucking my dick at the same time was more than I could stand. I started to shoot! Aaron moved his hot mouth up to my swollen head, and shared the massive load with his brother. There was more than enough for two. They licked the shaft and head of my throbbing cock as I shoot load after load of hot cum, all over their identical faces, and into their eager young mouths! I left the twins room and headed back for the pool. I felt kind of guilty leaving Matt there alone, and having sex with those boys. What had I done? I had wanted Matt to be the first guy I sucked, but, I wasn't even sure if he was into guys. He never did talk about girls and we did spend all of our time together, except Wednesday nights when he had class and I had my date at the Men's room. I felt so confused! When I got back to the pool Matt was sitting on a chair. He wouldn't look at me; finally he said, "Where the fuck did you go man?" He sounded pissed. "I just went back up to the room. I forgot the suntan lotion." I lied. "Hey, Lee, I say you leave with that kid." I didn't want to lie to Matt but what could I say? Why was he getting so angry? We went back to the room. I grabbed Matt by the shoulder and asked him what was wrong. "I know what you were doing with that kid Lee." he said. "I saw you sitting there rubbing your dick and staring at him." He almost sounded jealous. "You had sex with him, didn't you!" he yelled. "No dude! You know that I am not gay. What are you talking about?" I said. "Bull shit you're not gay. I knew the first day you moved in that you were dude. And so am I!" he said. I couldn't believe what he had just said. "Remember when I told you that I had a class on Wednesday nights?" Matt said. "Sure, you said you were taking a psychology class right?" I said. Matt looked down at the floor. "Well I made that up." He went on to explain, "I had given up on you man! I ran around all of the time naked, and you never even made a move for me. I tried everything I could think of to get you interested. Remember that time we tried on swim trunks in the fitting room together? I wanted you so bad dude! After that I just gave up and figured that I wasn't your type. I was so frustrated and horny that I couldn't stand it!" Matt was almost crying. I walked over and put my arm around him. He went on, "I started hangin' around this Men's room by the old gym and suckin' guy's dicks on Wednesday night when I told you I had that class. They didn't mean anything to me, I never even saw their faces man! There was even this kid that I did every week, but I was always thinkin' of you dude!" I couldn't believe it. All of that time it had been Matt sucking my cock! "Matt, It was me!" He looked at me confused. "What do you mean?" he said. "I was the guy you had the date with every Wednesday night at 9:30 dude!" I said. I flashed back to that first Wednesday night. Of course, those NIKE sneakers! I knew they looked familiar. They were Matt's favorite tennis shoes! If only I had realized it, we could have saved a lot of time. So it turns out that my first experience had been with Matt after all! Even though neither of us had knew it at the time: in that old Men's room. Me thinkin' of Matt and him thinkin' of me! I took Matt into my arms and kissed him on the lips. He opened his mouth and our tongues met. I moved down kissing Matt's strong, muscular chest. I licked his nipples, gently chewing each one. I slowly worked my way down his rock hard stomach until I was on my knees. I kissed the head of his lengthening penis through his trunks, his massive erection straining to get through the thin material. I lowered the tight black Speedos, Matt's cock sprang up strong, young, and proud. I looked up and into his deep brown eyes and opened my mouth. I placed it around his dick, still looking into his eyes. He let out a deep moan. This is what I had dreamed about since that first day I moved into the dorm room. I took his manhood all the way down my throat. Matt began to cum, I felt his cock pulsating. I pulled back until just the massive head was in my mouth. I thought the twins had shoot a big load, but both of them together, didn't equal the load Matt shoot into my hungry mouth! I swallowed as quickly as I could; not wanting to miss a single drop. I savored the taste that I had only dreamed of. Matt had given me his most precious gift. I had lived for this very moment. He looked down into my eyes and said, "Lee, I love you dude." "I love you to Matt. I always have man." THE END Copyright (c) 1993 Email me with comments... lec@gate.net At 05:03 PM 4/30/97 -0500, you wrote: > I recently acquired an audio-tape copy of _Everything I Know_ >from the Buckminster Fuller Institute. For those of you unfamiliar >with this work, it is a 42 hour session recorded in 1975. Bucky >had told some of his associates that if he was given 40 hours, >he could teach them everything he knew. > Over the next several months I will be going over these tapes, >and wondered if there was anyone out there who wanted to join in >an electronic discussion of the material. I will be taking the >study rather seriously, as I hope to gain an intuitive understanding >of his "spherical geometry". There is a distinct possibility that >summaries of our discussions can be posted back to the appropriate >lists for archiving. > The tapes can be purchased from the BFI -- they can be reached >via e-mail at bfi@aol.com, via the web at www.bfi.org, and via >telephone at (805) 962-0022. The whole set is somewhat expensive, >but individual volumes may be ordered for $35 for six tapes. > > Curt (curtm@dgii.com) > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:06:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: lec@gate.net (Lee E. Chapman) Subject: Spring break...(M/M) HOT!! Spring Break Surprise By Lee E. Chapman As soon as we crossed the Florida state line Matt took off his shirt. I looked over at his strong, muscular, teenage chest. My cock hardened. He told me that he wasn't going to wear a shirt again all Spring Break. I joined my friend and took my shirt off to. The sun shining down on my chest felt great as we drove in Matt's red Mustang convertible toward our destination: Daytona Beach-Spring Break '93. Now that we were finally on our way I felt a new freedom. I had the hots for Matt ever since that first day I moved into the dorm. I finally found the room and double checked the number before I opened the door. Yeah, this was it, room 214, at Edward Hall. I opened the door and walked into the my new home for the next four years. That's when I first saw him. He was standing there without a shirt, wearing just a pair of white Calvin Klein boxers. "Hey guy, my names Matt. You must be my roommate." he said, introducing himself. I remember thinkin' how much he looked like Marky Mark in those boxers. I was happy to learn that was the outfit he usually wore in our dorm room. "Yeah, my names Lee. How's it goin' dude?" I said, shaking his hand. "Let me help you with those boxes man." he said. I handed him a heavy box. He took it effortlessly. His arm and chest muscles flexed and bulged as he carried the box. I could tell already I was going to enjoy college life. I glanced around the room. Matt had already unpacked some of his stuff. He had set up an IBM computer and an expensive Sony stereo. The new Depeche Mode CD was playing. There was a poster of Marky Mark hanging in the corner on the wall above his bed. "You look just like him dude." I said, pointing to the poster. He looked at me and said, "No way man! You really think so? Well, I guess, maybe a little." he said modestly. There was a set of weights in one of the other corners. Looking at Matt's well-developed body, I'd say they had been put to good use! Matt had brown hair, cut short, shaved close on the sides and back in a stylish cut. His eyes are dark brown and his face was handsome, with smooth skin that glowed with health and vitality. His face looked young, I wondered if he even shaved yet, but I found out that he was eighteen, the same age as me. Matt's body sure was built! His chest was well-defined from his constant work-outs. His pecs stood out from his hard chest like two mountains capped with tiny, light brown nipples. His arms were huge, with large, hard, rounded biceps. His tight stomach was like a washboard, with rippling muscles tapering down to his lean, thin waist. He had no hair on his chest at all, just a little under his arms, and of course down by his dick. I thought mine was big, but Matt's was even bigger, and always half-hard. At least whenever I got a chance to see it. Which, as it turned out, was often! It hung down between his legs 10 or 11 inches, from a thick bush of curly brown pubic hair. The shaft was so wide I wondered how big it must be when it was fuckin' hard! The head of his dick was a perfect heart shape, and a little darker than the long smooth shaft. His balls were huge like two extra large eggs. They hung down low in their skin sac, with just a few brown hairs. His fine ass was hard as rock, and looked good enough to eat, with smooth hairless skin. Matt's legs were just as muscular and developed as his upper body and covered with fine, tiny brown hairs. I found out that first night Matt sleeps in the nude. My parents had been conservative and I grew up sleeping in pajamas. I just thought everyone did. Matt laughed at me when I came out of the bathroom in my PJs. "What the fuck are you wearin' man?" he said. "I am just getting ready for bed." I said. I was embarrassed and a little pissed off he was makin' fun of me! "What do you sleep in?" I said. He slipped off his boxers and playfully tossed them at me. They hit me in the face. I could smell his cock and I felt my dick jump. "I don't wear anything dude." he said. After that night I started sleepin' in the nude too. Matt always did exercises early in the morning. I would lie in bed, pretending to still be asleep, while I watched him work-out. I would have a raging hard-on but you couldn't see it under the sheet. His muscles would stretch and bulge as he worked them lifting weights or doing sit-ups. All of this, of course, still totally nude! Sometimes his dick would even get hard as he pumped the heavy weights up and down, working his young muscles. When Matt went into the bathroom to shower and get ready for class, I would jack-off thinking about licking the sweat off his hot body. I'd taste my own pre-cum, and imagine that it was Matt's. It tasted sweet and manly. I'd picture his naked teenage body and all the things that I wanted to do with him. I had never done anything with a guy before, but I knew that I wanted my first experience to be with Matt. One Wednesday night, a couple of months after school started, I was coming home from studying at the library. Matt had started going to a night class on Wednesdays, and I didn't have anything to do without him. It was the one day of the week that we didn't spend the evening together. I was taking a short cut between the old gym and the computer labs. I had to take a killer leak and I didn't think I could wait till I got back to the dorm. I noticed a Men's room on the side of the old gymnasium. I wasn't even sure if it was still open now that the new gym was being used, but I decided to find out. I really had to pee bad! I tried the door and it opened. As I walked in, a cute young guy was leaving one of the stalls. He was trying to stuff his hard dick in his jockey shorts and zip up his jeans. He looked surprised to see me and acted sort of embarrassed. Our eyes met for just a second, then he looked down at the ground and quickly left. There were two stalls and one urinal. The urinal had an OUT OF ORDER sign on it, so I went into the stall the kid had just left. I was pissing and lookin' around the stall, reading all of the graffiti on the walls, when I noticed a big hole in the divider between the stalls. I looked down and could see a pair of NIKE sneakers under the divider. Next to the hole someone had written, "Stick your cock in the hole for a blow job." Now I understand why that young kid had acted embarrassed, he had just had his cock sucked! I was finished pissin' by this time but I just stood there, my cock hardening. I started thinking about Matt's beautiful teenage body and big cock. Without really thinking, I began stroking the smooth shaft of my stiff 10 inch dick. A drop of pre-cum was hanging on the end of my cock. I wiped it off with my finger and brought it to my lips. The taste made me even hotter! The guy in the other stall ran his tongue around the edge of the hole. I guess he wanted another dick to suck! I was getting turned on being here in this Men's room. It smelled kind of like the guy's locker room after my gym class, when all the teenage dudes are hot and sweaty from a hard work-out. Kind of a sexy musk smell. I was still strokin' my cock and using my other hand to play with my nuts. I was so horny that I just couldn't stand it anymore! I was tired of jacking off and just dreaming about Matt. I couldn't wait for Matt any longer, I needed some real sex! This guy wanted my dick and I wanted him to suck it. I moved toward the hole and pushed my cock through. I felt his warm mouth immediately engulf my swollen cock head. I had never felt anything so good in my fuckin' life! The guy started to move his mouth back and fourth on my cock. I was moaning with pleasure. I was fuckin' the dude's mouth now, thrusting my cock in and out of his throat. I started to cum. I never shoot so hard in my life! I thought I was gonna choke the poor guy. I never came like that when I jacked-off alone. I shoot all of my load into the dude's mouth, he swallowed every drop. I pulled my dick back and was about to leave when the guy pushed a note through the hole. It said, "Wow man, that was some load you shot! Will you meet me here again next Wednesday night at 9:30?" I took a pen out of my EASTPAK backpack and wrote, "Thanks dude. Sure, it was great. I'll see you next week for sure!" I wanted to tell Matt about what had happened, but I couldn't. We would spend hours talking about everything, except, SEX. I just assumed that Matt was straight. I wasn't sure he could except me telling him I liked guys! He never did date any girls, and once I thought I had seen him checking out one of the guys in the locker room who I thought was hot. I wondered about that, but never said anything. I didn't want to risk losing his friendship. Besides, it was probably just my imagination. Still, I never gave up the dream of havin' my first experience with Matt. Now that I had let this dude suck me off, I guess it was just a dream that never would happen! Every Wednesday night from then on I would show up at the Men's room for my weekly blow job. I wondered who the guy was but I never tried to find out. I didn't really care who he was. It never took me long to shoot my load. I would picture in my mind that it was me on my knees suckin' Matt's hard cock! I know it's stupid. But I felt kind of guilty, almost like I was cheating on Matt. Matt had his Wednesday night class, so he never knew what I did or where I was on Wednesday nights. He probably wouldn't care anyway, I thought! Matt and I had planned Spring Break in Daytona Beach for months. Matt always talked about how great it looked on MTV when they covered it each year. I was thinking about all those hot, horny, teenage guys! Now finally, after all of those weeks we were almost there! Here I was in Matt's Mustang, cruising on down to Daytona for a week of partying. We had Pearl Jam's new tape blasting from the stereo. Matt was beating on the steering wheel along with the drums, and I was playing air guitar. The wind was blowin' through my hair, I looked over at Matt. He never look hotter than now, with his hot, muscular, chest covered with tiny beads of sweat shining in the sun. I looked down between his legs. I am sure that he had a hard-on! I wondered who was he thinking about? He looked over, and shoot me one of his famous smiles. I still can't believe the Speedos that Matt had gotten for the trip. He suggested that we go to the mall to get new trunks for the trip. We each picked out a half dozen pairs, mine where kind of conservative: baggy, dark colors. Matt, on the other hand, picked out bright neon colors, and even a pair of skimpy black Speedos! Matt suggested that we go into the same dressing room so that we could help each other pick out trunks that looked the best. I said, "Cool, good idea." I followed him into one of the large dressing room and closed the door. Matt quickly stripped off all of his cloths. I was watching him try on each pair of trunks, and admire himself in the mirror. As he looked in the mirror, he would run his hand up and down the smooth skin on his chest and stomach, feeling the powerful muscles, but always stopping just before his hand reached his dick. After he tried each on, he would face me and ask how it looked. He wanted to know how the trunks, as he put it, "Shows off my cock?" I had a huge hard-on watching Matt try on trunks. He almost looked sexier in trunks than totally naked! He took off the pair he had on and said to me, "Come on dude, we came in here to try on swim trunks. So try on some of yours." I didn't want to tell him that I had a total boner, and it was because of him! He just stood there, his big cock and balls hangin' low between his legs. I turned around with my back to him, got out of my jeans and shirt, and into the first pair of Quick Silver trunks. I turned around and asked Matt what he thought? He told me that they looked great and really showed off my dick. Then he said, "Looks like you have a hard-on dude. Who you thinkin' about? I know. You must be thinkin' about Spring Break!" I couldn't believe he said that! I had to think fast. "Yeah, man, you know it. I can't wait!" I said, relieved that Matt didn't make a big deal out of it. I think I noticed his dick get a little harder while he stood there watchin' me. Was it just my imagination? Then he tried on the pair of Speedos. Matt could barely fit all of his cock and balls in the tiny trunks. Brown public hair was sticking out of the waist band. The pouch bulged out from between his legs, leaving nothing to the imagination. Of course, that's the pair he ended up buying! When we got to Daytona the first thing that Matt wanted to do was check out the beach. In Daytona you can drive your car on the beach! I was proud to be seen with Matt. Everyone was checking out his hot car, and us! I had never seen so many studs in one place before! There were fine teenage guys everywhere you looked, and wearin' almost nothing at all! Their youthful bodies exposed proudly, for all the world to see. Some were playing volleyball or surfing. Others were just laying in the sun, spread out invitingly on beach towels, their stiff cocks pointing up toward the sky. This was fuckin' great! A whole week in the sun with 150,000 hot, horny teenage dudes! We found the hotel and checked into the room. I went out onto the balcony. We had a great view of the ocean and the pool. There were lots of guys at the pool, but one really hot kid caught my eye. He was wearing a pair of baggy bright red trunks and leanin' against a wall alone. He had short blond hair, and a really sexy dark tan. Matt called to me, "Lee, how do I look man?" I turned and saw that he had changed into those skimpy black Speedos. I saw through the thin material that he had a ragging hard-on! "I don't think anybody will have any question about why you're here dude!" I said. Matt smiled and said, "Get changed man! I want to go down to the pool and check it out!" We found two chairs by the pool. Matt told me that he wanted to check out the water. I told him to go ahead. I wanted to get a little sun. I noticed the boy that I had seen from the balcony. He was even hotter looking now that I was close to him. He was sitting in a chair directly across from me. He looked to be about my age, maybe a little younger. His chest was a perfect V-shape and well-defined. I am not sure how long I was staring at him, but I looked up and saw that he had caught me checking him out. He moved his legs apart! I looked around, but no one seemed to be paying attention besides me. He moved his hand down and slowly pulled back the baggy material of his Ocean Pacific trunks. He didn't have any underwear on! From the angle that I was sitting I could see his nuts! He reached down and rubbed his large, heavy balls. He looked right at me through his RayBan Wayfarer sunglasses. He moved his legs even farther apart, so I could now see his whole dick! My mouth was watering. I had such a hard-on, I thought that I was going to shoot my load right there in my fuckin' trunks! He raised his right arm up and ran his fingers through his spiked blond hair. He keep his arm behind his head, exposing his blond underarm hair. I couldn't take my eyes off of this kid. He was hot, and putting on this show just for me! I hadn't even noticed that I was rubbin' my dick through my trunks. When I realized what I was doing, I quickly stopped and looked around. Good, no one had noticed! Just then the boy got up and walked toward me. He sat down in the chair next to me. I could smell the scent of coconut oil mixed with his teenage sweat. "Hey dude, I saw you up on the balcony. Did you just get in?" he said. "Yeah, my friend Matt and I just drove in from Columbia, Missouri. My names Lee." I said. "My name's Mark. My brother and I got here yesterday. We're down from Atlanta. It's my first spring break, I partied all night long man!" he said, looking right down at my dick! "I got some beer up in the room, you wanna go up and have a couple?" he said. "Yeah sure." I said forgetting all about Matt. "Cool- lets go." I followed him up to his room. I was thinking about how he showed me his hot dick out by the pool. I didn't know what I was getting into, I only knew that this kid gave me a major hard-on! I entered the room and Mark walked over to a cooler. He reached in, and pulled out a couple of beers. "Here you go dude." he said. "Thanks man." I said twisting off the cap. As we sat on the edge of the bed, he was rubbin' his dick through his trunks. He reached over and started to rub my dick to. It was hard as a rock. I didn't know what to do. I guess I really wanted something to happen. Why else would I have come up to his room, I don't even like beer! "You really turn me on dude. You liked what you saw down at the pool didn't you?" he said, looking down at his crotch and smiling. The head of his cock was stickin' out of his waist band. His hand was now in my trunks and around my hard dick. "Yeah" I said. He got to his knees, I was still sitting on the edge of the bed. "I want to suck your dick man." the kid said. I didn't have a chance to say anything. He slowly lowered my trunks. He moved closer and licked the pre-cum off the swollen head of my cock. "You're so fine dude." he said. I thought that I was going to shoot right then! He took the whole head into his mouth. He was swallowing more and more of my dick down his hungry throat. His nose was buried in my pubic hair. I leaned back on the bed and started to moan. He moved up and down my cock, this guy really knew how to give head! I heard a key in the door. Someone was coming in the room! I looked over and couldn't believe my eyes. The guy coming in looked just like Mark, but how could that be? Mark was on his knees with my dick in his mouth! What the fuck was going on here? The guy looked at the bed, smiled, and quickly closed the door. Mark took his mouth off of my dick and said, "Don't look so freaked out Lee. That's my twin brother Aaron." "Aaron, say hello to Lee. He just got in town and he has a fuckin' great tastin' cock man!" he said to his twin brother. Mark went back to suckin' my dick. His brother looked identical with the same short blond hair, handsome face, and hot teenage body. Aaron took off his trunks and walked over to the bed where I was lying. He stood behind me. I looked up at his cock. It was huge, about 10 inches long and rock hard. His balls hung down low, almost touching my nose. I breathed in deep smelling the scent of his sweaty, teenage nuts. Between his brothers excellent blow job and his hot cock in my face, I was goin' crazy! I had to have that cock in my mouth! He put the head of his dick right above my lips. I could see a clear drop of pre-cum on the tip. I opened my virgin mouth and slowly stuck out my tongue. I licked the clear fluid off his cock. It was sweet like mine. I just knew it would! I took the head of his cock in my mouth and started to suck. Mark stopped sucking my dick and moved around to where his brother was. He moved his cock toward my mouth. He wanted me to suck both dicks at the same time! I opened my mouth as wide as I could, and took both of their hot dicks in my mouth. I couldn't get enough of their teenage cocks. These brothers were beautiful, and I was going wild movin' my head from side to side, swallowing as much of their meat in my lustful mouth as I could! We had a rhythm going. First Mark would pump his dick in, and then his brother Aaron. They were fuckin' my face like two pistons! I wanted them to fuck my mouth forever! Just then Mark said, "Oh shit Man! I'm gonna cum!" His brother Aaron shouted, "Me too man! Get ready for it Lee!" They both started to shoot in my mouth. I had never tasted another guy's load before. I sucked and tried to swallow all of their hot cum. I didn't want to waste a drop of their teenage juice! I swallowed mouthful after mouthful, but each time they would fill up my mouth again. I didn't know that two guys could shoot so much cum! They pulled their dicks out of my mouth, and moved around the bed to my cock. I was just lying there, enjoying the taste of their two loads still in my mouth. They both were now on their knees. Mark took my dick in his hot mouth, and his twin brother took my balls in his. I watched them enjoying my cock. Having both of these beautiful, twin, teenage boys sucking my dick at the same time was more than I could stand. I started to shoot! Aaron moved his hot mouth up to my swollen head, and shared the massive load with his brother. There was more than enough for two. They licked the shaft and head of my throbbing cock as I shoot load after load of hot cum, all over their identical faces, and into their eager young mouths! I left the twins room and headed back for the pool. I felt kind of guilty leaving Matt there alone, and having sex with those boys. What had I done? I had wanted Matt to be the first guy I sucked, but, I wasn't even sure if he was into guys. He never did talk about girls and we did spend all of our time together, except Wednesday nights when he had class and I had my date at the Men's room. I felt so confused! When I got back to the pool Matt was sitting on a chair. He wouldn't look at me; finally he said, "Where the fuck did you go man?" He sounded pissed. "I just went back up to the room. I forgot the suntan lotion." I lied. "Hey, Lee, I say you leave with that kid." I didn't want to lie to Matt but what could I say? Why was he getting so angry? We went back to the room. I grabbed Matt by the shoulder and asked him what was wrong. "I know what you were doing with that kid Lee." he said. "I saw you sitting there rubbing your dick and staring at him." He almost sounded jealous. "You had sex with him, didn't you!" he yelled. "No dude! You know that I am not gay. What are you talking about?" I said. "Bull shit you're not gay. I knew the first day you moved in that you were dude. And so am I!" he said. I couldn't believe what he had just said. "Remember when I told you that I had a class on Wednesday nights?" Matt said. "Sure, you said you were taking a psychology class right?" I said. Matt looked down at the floor. "Well I made that up." He went on to explain, "I had given up on you man! I ran around all of the time naked, and you never even made a move for me. I tried everything I could think of to get you interested. Remember that time we tried on swim trunks in the fitting room together? I wanted you so bad dude! After that I just gave up and figured that I wasn't your type. I was so frustrated and horny that I couldn't stand it!" Matt was almost crying. I walked over and put my arm around him. He went on, "I started hangin' around this Men's room by the old gym and suckin' guy's dicks on Wednesday night when I told you I had that class. They didn't mean anything to me, I never even saw their faces man! There was even this kid that I did every week, but I was always thinkin' of you dude!" I couldn't believe it. All of that time it had been Matt sucking my cock! "Matt, It was me!" He looked at me confused. "What do you mean?" he said. "I was the guy you had the date with every Wednesday night at 9:30 dude!" I said. I flashed back to that first Wednesday night. Of course, those NIKE sneakers! I knew they looked familiar. They were Matt's favorite tennis shoes! If only I had realized it, we could have saved a lot of time. So it turns out that my first experience had been with Matt after all! Even though neither of us had knew it at the time: in that old Men's room. Me thinkin' of Matt and him thinkin' of me! I took Matt into my arms and kissed him on the lips. He opened his mouth and our tongues met. I moved down kissing Matt's strong, muscular chest. I licked his nipples, gently chewing each one. I slowly worked my way down his rock hard stomach until I was on my knees. I kissed the head of his lengthening penis through his trunks, his massive erection straining to get through the thin material. I lowered the tight black Speedos, Matt's cock sprang up strong, young, and proud. I looked up and into his deep brown eyes and opened my mouth. I placed it around his dick, still looking into his eyes. He let out a deep moan. This is what I had dreamed about since that first day I moved into the dorm room. I took his manhood all the way down my throat. Matt began to cum, I felt his cock pulsating. I pulled back until just the massive head was in my mouth. I thought the twins had shoot a big load, but both of them together, didn't equal the load Matt shoot into my hungry mouth! I swallowed as quickly as I could; not wanting to miss a single drop. I savored the taste that I had only dreamed of. Matt had given me his most precious gift. I had lived for this very moment. He looked down into my eyes and said, "Lee, I love you dude." "I love you to Matt. I always have man." THE END Copyright (c) 1993 Email me with comments... lec@gate.net At 07:56 PM 4/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >I seem to remember someone telling of land for sale in the western united >states by some railroad. at $50 an acre. > >Does anybody know about this?? > >My point is: > >Let us begin. > >My current background. >I work with dairy cooperatives. This is handy information. > (please note the difference of Cooperative and Commune) >For example 6,540 dairy farmers own a business that handles 1 billion >dollars a year. > >I am very familiar with corporate structure > >I could start working on a legal background on creating a company or >cooperative. >(brothers a lawyer/can't hurt) I actually have a company lying around I >think?.? > >It would have by-laws and a goal. > >It would have a formula for those that want to leave (a buy out at market >price ect. . .) >after all not everybody would be willing to kick in money if there was a >lack of structure and no way to back out if they became unhappy. > >Anyway should we, as a group, elaborate? > >This would be a PROVING ground!~! > >It would seem to me that we could buy a few acres. . . set up meetings and >agendas and I would spend My spare time there. Location should be >secondary. After all with domes and earthships and a crew like us location >is NOT the problem, > >I want to learn and it is only by experience that we Know. > >Who's interested.. > > >P.S. ~Pat~ is this also a domesteading project? > > > Endeavor to Perservere..... > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:09:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: The ICDD Clinics on X-ray Powder Diffraction and X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <023339Z17021995@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories From: an176816@anon.penet.fi X-Anonymously-To: alt.sex.stories Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an176816@anon.penet.fi Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 02:29:38 UTC Subject: darkprob.txt - wrestling story (F/F) Lines: 261 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ I did not write the following story. Rather, it is from my private archive of stories which I have downloaded from bbs's, usenet, etc. Let me know if you like it. I intend to post stories from my archive periodically on this usenet group. If you have missed a story, send me an email through anon.penet.fi and I can repost the story. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ MARYLYN SENDS JOAN A DARK PROBLEM Joan came in one evening after I'd gotten home. "Marylyn's friend is over here from the States and dropped in this afternoon," she said. "Oh yes". I said. "Yes! And I'd like to call on your good services as a referee again, apparently Marylyn told her about me, and after a couple of days rest she said she'd be rarin' for a bout!" "Oh yes!" I said again. "Yes! And I've accepted for Friday evening. OK with you?" "Sure," I said, "but are you feeling up to it?" Joan and I have a close relationship, both being divorced and living next door to each other. I knew her physical capabilities ('Accord', Vol. 3, Nos. 7 & 9) and although her 16-inch flexed biceps still make me boggle, I wondered if she was still in hard training. "Of course I am Norm," she said, "I don't let you into all the secrets of my training...just be ready for Friday that's all!!" "Who is this girl?" I went on. "She's no girl," answered Joan, "she's 32, about two years older than I am. She comes from Portland Oregon, and her name is Helen. Oh! and, er, she's black, and beautiful and say she's whipped Marylyn recently, would you believe." Friday evening arrived. I was next door. The gym mat was down, the furniture moved, I'd also subdued the lighting to remove any glare. Helen arrived about eight. A real black stunner. We had refreshments in another room, and although the conversation flowed easily the smiles between Helen and Joan were tight, ad they studiously avoided each others eyes whenever possible. We got around to details. "To a finish," said Joan "Nude," added Helen. "Right on," said Joan, "now about the holds." "Come on Joan honey," interrupted Helen, "we're mature women not little girls." "I don't mind you using anything I've got if you can for leverage, because I'm sure as hell going to use any part of you I need to!" "OK! Agreed," I said quickly. "No holds barred...wrestling..." "Without swimsuits!" "To a finish!" "Do you want to be oiled?" I asked. They both did just a little. A few minutes before nine I had both contestants in their dressing gowns ready on the mat in the lounge. Helen was flexing her biceps, and as a matter of interest I took a tape measure and measured her upper arm - "16 inches", I said, "same as Joan's." "How about this," Helen said crouching slightly, she moved the gown from her right thigh...I placed the tape measure around the black pillar of muscle. "28 inches," I said. At this Joan came over, and bared her upper leg flexing it, I passed the tape around, "28 inches," I said. Joan looked over at her black opponent, who stared back. "What's your bust and weight, 'Black Power'?" "Thirty-nine inches and 145 LBS." said Helen. "Looks like we start even then, because I'm 10 1/2 stone," Joan retorted. I took their dressing gowns and they squared off in the center of the mat - two perfect feline specimens, one black, the other white, both powerful, preparing to match muscles and bodies until one succumbed to the other... Joan was in first, from the front she forced Helen's arm up behind her in a hammerlock. Helen winced but brought her knee up between Joan's legs... It never landed, Joan gripped the black thigh between hers and increased the pressure on the hammerlock... Helen gasped, then put her right arm behind her, grasped her own wrist, and with a quick effort broke the hold. She turned into Joan and with a hip throw sent her tumbling. They got to their feet quickly and grappled again, close to the wall. Helen spaded her hand and slid it between them...Joan yelped! Helen's back muscles knotted...she lifted Joan up the wall by her crotch...her strong right and buried in the thick black hair... Helen held Joan, a left arm bar across her throat, in this painful grip for many seconds...Joan's head rolled... As a last resort she grabbed Helen's head and held it between her breasts...eventually through not being able to breathe, Helen had to relinquish her grip and back away, heaving for air...as Joan slumped by the wall massaging her abused crotch... They circled, warily this time, showing more respect for each other's capabilities than when they started. When they closed it was to drop to the mat to try strength holds to wear each other down. Sometimes Joan's suntanned but comparatively white body disappeared writhing under the black powerhouse, other times Helen strained for freedom under Joan's muscular torso! The slight acrid odor of sweat lingered in the air, it was now dripping off them, but showed up more on Helen's wide black shoulders as she turned the white amazon over... "Come on you muscle-bound white whore, where's your answer to this one!!" Helen hissed. When Joan found the answer which was her strong right hand plunged deep in the dripping pubic hair between Helen's thighs and by good leverage throwing her black foe to the mat...retaining the grip, she panted "There's your answer black bitch..." Helen rolled away from that one, leaped to her feet crouching low, Joan crouched just two yards from her... Helen, muscular black body gleaming with perspiration, beckoned, "Come on Joanie honey...black muscles against white...I'm all black woman and you're all white woman...come on baby, bring those white nut crackers I've heard so much about over here and match them against my black ones...Let's really decide who's the best woman...or maybe you're afraid I'll bust your gut?..." Needing no second invitation, Joan smashed into Helen...they braced, legs apart, grunting like men...sometimes squealing like women, breast to breast...their massively hairy bellies glued together, they commenced to thrust mightily into each others loins...matching stroke for stroke...In...Out...In...Out...Each woman gripped her foe's clenching buttocks as if to prevent her escaping this war of attrition...In...Out...In...Out...On...and On it went, until from sheer exhaustion, no doubt brought on by more than one ejaculation each, they sank to their knees in a double bear hug. Helen forced Joan to the mat, attempted a grapevine...but Joan gripped thighs with her black opponent. Soon they were shaking and sobbing for breath... tighter...tighter...closer...closer...as they once again forced themselves into each other...the huge muscles on their twined power packs etched in black and white ridges against their skin; eyeball to eyeball they grappled in vicious combat as only woman rivals can..deep in between their legs both used that most powerful of all female weapons against each other in a way they would never dream of doing on a man.. in a bone crushing effort to drain and destroy the woman in front of her! The breath was hissing between their teeth as the white girl rolled onto Helen...the black amazon arched her back, but to no avail...Then she forced her head and shoulders up as if to topple Joan. Joan then quite deliberately sought out Helen's mouth with her own...their necks taunted....their teeth must have grated as Joan bent Helen's head back...still she did not remove her mouth from Helen's... Their breath must have been rushing in and out of each other's lungs as the muscular white and black amazons lay there locked in a death grip...long minutes passed...strong experienced fingers brought each other off savagely more than once...finally the black hands ceased seeking a nerve hold on the deltoids and slid from the white fighter's armpits, slowly to the mat...the black thighs and calves relaxed their grip on the white ones...Joan sat astride her rival...I'd never seen her so exhausted...her mouth looked sore...Helen's appeared a little chewed too...Helen's black body shinning with sweat, her hard shapely breasts with their large purple nipples, that had provided so much leverage for Joan, rose and fell as she panted...Joan, sitting up in triumph looked over at me. I shook my head...I could not count out the black fighter...I marveled at the fantastic body, now bathed in sweat...that powerful rib cage under those pink nippled heaving globes...she knew what I wanted to see...she turned Helen over onto her face...slipped her arms under the other woman's armpits...her fingers clutched the hard black breasts...using them as leverage she strained backwards in a backbreaker, biceps bulging...minutes passed with no submission from the groaning Helen. Joan let her flop forward on her knees, forehead resting on the mat, she crouched atop her like some big white cat on a black one, and in frustration slid her hands down, trying something I'd never seen her do...a double claw hold!!! She gripped under her opponents lower torso, clawed fingers probing...seeking to force themselves through the very abdomen wall and grasp the entrails hidden there...after a lengthy and titanic effort Joan was rewarded for some half-an-hour of unforgettable wrestling against a superb opponent...I heard it...low, and almost unintelligible..."SUBMIT!! (groan)..."I SUBMIT JOAN!!!...YOU'RE TOPCAT...GOOD FIGHT HON." As Joan relaxed, Helen added in a breathless whisper, as if to herself, "This time...I believe." Friday evening arrived. I was next door. The gym mat was down, the furniture moved, I'd also ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. At 07:01 PM 4/28/97 GMT, you wrote: >The International Centre for Diffraction Data (ICDD) is a nonprofit >scientific >organization that collects, edits, publishes, and distributes powder >diffraction data for the identification of crystalline materials. > >The International Centre for Diffraction Data (ICDD) is committed to >promoting the applications of materials characterization methods in >science and technology by providing educational programs such as the ICDD >Clinics. The ICDD Clinics on X-ray Powder Diffraction and X-ray >Fluorescence Spectrometry are conducted annually in June. The format >combines theoretical and practical applications with ample time for the >students to discuss their applications and problems with the faculty. In >pursuing its dynamic commitment to education, the ICDD offers a limited >number of tuition waivers for the Clinic on X-ray Powder Diffraction. The >four sessions are described as follows: > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >ICDD Clinic on X-ray Powder Diffraction > >Session I - Fundamentals of X-ray Powder Diffraction > >June 2-6, 1997 > >Covering instrumentation, specimen preparation, data acquisition, and >qualitative phase analysis. > >Session II - Advanced Methods in X-ray Powder Diffraction > >June 9-13, 1997 > >Emphasizing computer-based methods of data collection and interpretation, >both for qualitative and quantitative phase analysis. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >ICDD Clinic on X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometry > >Session I - Fundamentals of X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometry > >June 16-20, 1997 > >Covering basics of X-ray spectra, instrumentation design, methods of >qualitative and quantitative analysis, specimen preparation and >applications for both wavelength and energy dispersive spectrometry. > >Session II - Advanced Methods in X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometry > >June 23-27, 1997 > >Emphasizing quantitative methods, use of automated X-ray spectrometers, >review of mathematical matrix correction procedures, and new developments >in XRF. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Fees and Inquiries > >The $1,250 fee for each session includes textbook, lecture notes, use of >computers (where applicable), and lunch. Please direct all inquiries and >requests for a comprehensive brochure (available January 1997) to: > >Manager, Schools & Conferences >International Centre for Diffraction Data >12 Campus Boulevard >Newtown Square, PA 19073-3273 >Tel: (610) 325-9814 >Fax: 610/325-9823 >E-mail: clinics@icdd.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:36:39 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Iman Adler Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970430233751.080f3c1a@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:53 PM 4/30/97 -0700, Gavin Schuette wrote: >fag > This kind of garbage really doesn't belong here. I thought this was a moderated group. Gavin- grow up. -------------------------- David Iman Adler Solutions for Environmental Harmony Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands Design-Garden Design david@environmentalharmony.com http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:38:51 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Iman Adler Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970430234241.080f2174@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:58 PM 4/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:05:54 +0000 >From: * >To: peach@lambda.net >Subject: "Yours Truly" mm story at Tech (Atlanta) > [rest of messge snipped] And this doesn't belong here either. How can this kind of spamming be stopped anyone know? -------------------------- David Iman Adler Solutions for Environmental Harmony Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands Design-Garden Design david@environmentalharmony.com http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:41:55 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: djsouth@MONOLITHICDOME.COM Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service Subject: Re: [ega@fastlane.net: Dome web] > > R.K. Treutlein wrote: > > > > >I was reading from the geodesic BBS. Did you know that Monolithic Domes in > > >Italy, Tx. makes domes by using a giant ballon, inflated with air a foam is > > >then sprayed on the interior and it hardens into an inside shell. Next > > >spray on cement is applied to the outside and if I remember right, rebar is > > >inside it for a steel reinforcement. The final product is a smooth round > > >dome. Some more at http://www.now.net/worlddomes/ > > > > Some years ago, an Italian company built a whole shopping center, what you > > americans call a Mall, this way. Here in Queensland, Australia. Two or three > > domes. I think it was called "Space City". Unfortunately it never caught on, > > possibly it was mis-sited, posiblyt conservative business people could not > > take the shape. Eventually it was left derelict, became a haunt for teen > > gangs and streetkids and was bulldozed. I had a look around it just before > > it was completely closed down. A very sad sight. > > > > At the same time a car agency (Ford??) built a dome a few klicks away, > > that's still in exisitence. > > > > Rudi Treutlein > There were some domes built in Australia by this method, called > Binishells. Some of them started to collapse - I remember a school > building where they believed that lightning had fused the wire > reinforcing and this lead to the disintegeration of the concrete. > In the meantime my preference and belief sticks with timber domes. I > believe you can build a larger dome using timber than any other material > on strength to weight ratio grounds. > Regards > John Rich The Binishells are not Monolithic(tm) Domes. I work for Monolithic in Italy, Texas and we build quite a different structure. It is true that Binishells did use an airstructure and concrete to construct, but that is where the similarities end. Binishells were built by pouring concrete over a rebar matt laid over an air-inflatable balloon. Then, before the concrete is set, the baloon is inflated. A Monolithic(tm) Dome is created by inflating an Airform(tm). This creates the final shape of the building (it can be a torus, spherical dome, ellipsoidal, or multiple domes linked as one air form). We then apply about 3 in. (76 mm) of polyurethane foam to the interior surface of the air form. Steel rebar is attached to the foam. Then about 2 to 3 inches (50-76 mm) of shotcrete concrete is sprayed, embedding the rebar. The finished wall is: the air form fabric membrane on the outside, foam, and steel reinforced concrete on the inside. There are 10' (3m) to 260' (79m) Monolithic Domes. They are built all over the globe. And we have engineering to build concrete domes up to 1000' (300m) in diameter. Our buildings have survived hurricanes, earthquakes, and our own office survived a small tornado with NO DAMAGE. David South, Jr. http://www.monolithicdome.com -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 05:46:07 +1200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Cath Sheard Subject: Re: Action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Gavin Schuette > Subject: Spring break...(M/M) HOT!! > Gavin - in reply to your 'postings'. I do not need to grow up (your initial warning), nor have you offended me as such so don't try to blame ME if you don't like what I'm saying. I don't care what you do, who you do it with, what you read or watch. BUT I did not join a group about geodesic domes to read such utter rot. You have invaded my space, uninvited, and I do not appreciate it. I think you should consider VERY carefully the ethics of what you are doing - I am not talking "corruption" or "indecency" - just plain good manners. I hope you will think about what I have said, you are misusing a powerful means of communication. Cath > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:46:35 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "R.K. Treutlein" Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:58 30/04/97 -0700, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:05:54 +0000 >From: * >To: peach@lambda.net >Subject: "Yours Truly" mm story at Tech (Atlanta) > >***************************************************************** >This a true story written on my own experience. It involves a >100% m/m topic. If you think this could offend your convictions >about life, or you are not an adult yet, please go back. The >names of the guys mentioned here were changed, and the places >are also different. >***************************************************************** >I want to learn constructively of this experience. >I'd appreciate your comments. > >bye >Rob. Just one question, what is this doing on a list which is for the discussion of Buckminster Fullers work?? . Did you hit the wrong adress buttons? I'm not objecting to the story, as such, while I'm straight in orientation, I have my own kinks with it. regards, Rudi T. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 04:05:58 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JFBECKETT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: selfmade dome Holtor writes: Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JFBECKETT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Bucky's _Everything I Know_ The tapes sound potentially interesting, but quite an investment. I for one, would be interested in knowing if you find them useful, educational, etc... I'll watch for the discussion here. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:51:02 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: selfmade dome JFBECKETT wrote: > My own experience after watching this newsgroup for a year or better, and > asking the same question repeatedly, is that nobody online is either > capable or willing to share information in a useable form. Hi Jamie Locate the following URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/homepage.htm Look under the topics: geodesic house structure, and structural plans Regards Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:45:46 -0700 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: selfmade dome Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JFBECKETT wrote: > > Holtor writes: > > > My own experience after watching this newsgroup for a year or better, and > asking the same question repeatedly, is that nobody online is either > capable or willing to share information in a useable form. > > It is a shame too. The form of the dome house is presentable, and even > desireable in some quarters. The benefits are well known and easy to learn > more about from a variety of sources. The process of building appears to > be one that could easily be completed with a handmade jig, simple 2x4's > and gussets. Yet I have yet to find a single resource for a set of plans > for either full sized or model construction. > > The discussions are valuable to a good number of readers no doubt. But > don't be surprised when the dome never gains acceptance beyond fringe > interest. If you can't break the concept down to where it is > understandable to the average person with a half way decent education and > the ability to work with materials and tools, then the dream is lost and > it will remain only on drawing boards, computer models and exotic out of > the way (ie: seldom seen) rumored locations. > > I don't think this is what Bucky had hoped for. But that's just my > opinion, uninformed as it is back a lack of available information, not by > malice. > > Jamie Beckett Hi Jamie Try the following website for starters as a resource for information. http://www.dnaco.net/~michael/domes/ I agree with your sentiments but stop being so naive. As a responsible professional I have a duty of care ( or I can be sued for negligence, recklessness, mal-practice etc), so when I issue I design on the internet to a stranger, I have no control over how that information is going to be used. Any one with high school maths, a good pocket calculator, paper and pencils can go to a library, look up Domebook 2 and calculate enough information to build one of many geodesics. You could even get a copy of my book "Timber Geodesic Domes" - it's in the Library of Congress - it has lots of plans and layouts. Furthermore, you can get brochures from companies like Oregon Domes, in which there are some standard layouts. If you can't get together the plans, maths etc yourself, then talk to someone who can, and negotiate the terms. Often I have given free info subject to MY TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Mostly I get paid for my time, expertise, experience and the risks I take from doing such work. Also, does one dome fit all? Would you really be happy getting some plans and plonking your dome on your site with no regard to design features and constraints such as access, services, view, sun, prevailing wind, lifestyle, number in family etc. It sounds to me that you are not actually motivated enough or interested enough in the subject. As for widespread acceptance, what you suggest would seriously damage the credibilty of domes, as the hippie domes of the seventies based on Whole Earth Catalogue references, damaged dome's reputations and damaged their ability to become widespead - in fact a later printing of DomeBook2 acknowledged that most of the domes described therein leaked. It has been the long standing efforts of people like myself, Oregon and other credible designers/suppliers/manufacturers which have salvaged domes and carried the technology forward. And yes, most of us follow Bucky's philosophies and principles, but we are not stupid. I have been involved in owner built projects where the Owner did not have the skills, organisational ability, drive etc to build on budget and on time. Guess who gets blamed for that? Regards John Rich ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:31:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" how do I get out of this baabbble-hell? At 07:36 AM 5/1/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:53 PM 4/30/97 -0700, Gavin Schuette wrote: >>fag >> >This kind of garbage really doesn't belong here. I thought this was a >moderated group. Gavin- grow up. >-------------------------- >David Iman Adler >Solutions for Environmental Harmony >Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands >Design-Garden Design >david@environmentalharmony.com http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html >Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:31:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: [ega@fastlane.net: Dome web] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" my ass is monoithic At 10:41 AM 5/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >> >> R.K. Treutlein wrote: >> > >> > >I was reading from the geodesic BBS. Did you know that Monolithic Domes in >> > >Italy, Tx. makes domes by using a giant ballon, inflated with air a foam >is >> > >then sprayed on the interior and it hardens into an inside shell. Next >> > >spray on cement is applied to the outside and if I remember right, rebar >is >> > >inside it for a steel reinforcement. The final product is a smooth round >> > >dome. Some more at http://www.now.net/worlddomes/ >> > >> > Some years ago, an Italian company built a whole shopping center, what you >> > americans call a Mall, this way. Here in Queensland, Australia. Two or >three >> > domes. I think it was called "Space City". Unfortunately it never caught >on, >> > possibly it was mis-sited, posiblyt conservative business people could not >> > take the shape. Eventually it was left derelict, became a haunt for teen >> > gangs and streetkids and was bulldozed. I had a look around it just before >> > it was completely closed down. A very sad sight. >> > >> > At the same time a car agency (Ford??) built a dome a few klicks away, >> > that's still in exisitence. >> > >> > Rudi Treutlein >> There were some domes built in Australia by this method, called >> Binishells. Some of them started to collapse - I remember a school >> building where they believed that lightning had fused the wire >> reinforcing and this lead to the disintegeration of the concrete. >> In the meantime my preference and belief sticks with timber domes. I >> believe you can build a larger dome using timber than any other material >> on strength to weight ratio grounds. >> Regards >> John Rich > >The Binishells are not Monolithic(tm) Domes. I work for Monolithic in >Italy, Texas and we build quite a different structure. It is true that >Binishells did use an airstructure and concrete to construct, but that is >where the similarities end. Binishells were built by pouring concrete >over a rebar matt laid over an air-inflatable balloon. Then, before the >concrete is set, the baloon is inflated. > >A Monolithic(tm) Dome is created by inflating an Airform(tm). This >creates the final shape of the building (it can be a torus, spherical >dome, ellipsoidal, or multiple domes linked as one air form). We then >apply about 3 in. (76 mm) of polyurethane foam to the interior surface of >the air form. Steel rebar is attached to the foam. Then about 2 to 3 >inches (50-76 mm) of shotcrete concrete is sprayed, embedding the rebar. >The finished wall is: the air form fabric membrane on the outside, foam, >and steel reinforced concrete on the inside. > >There are 10' (3m) to 260' (79m) Monolithic Domes. They are built all >over the globe. And we have engineering to build concrete domes up to >1000' (300m) in diameter. Our buildings have survived hurricanes, >earthquakes, and our own office survived a small tornado with NO DAMAGE. > >David South, Jr. >http://www.monolithicdome.com > >-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:31:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" how do i get off this list? At 04:46 PM 5/2/97 +1000, you wrote: >At 23:58 30/04/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:05:54 +0000 >>From: * >>To: peach@lambda.net >>Subject: "Yours Truly" mm story at Tech (Atlanta) >> >>***************************************************************** >>This a true story written on my own experience. It involves a >>100% m/m topic. If you think this could offend your convictions >>about life, or you are not an adult yet, please go back. The >>names of the guys mentioned here were changed, and the places >>are also different. >>***************************************************************** > > >>I want to learn constructively of this experience. >>I'd appreciate your comments. >> >>bye >>Rob. > >Just one question, what is this doing on a list which is for the discussion >of Buckminster Fullers work?? . > >Did you hit the wrong adress buttons? > >I'm not objecting to the story, as such, while I'm straight in orientation, >I have my own kinks with it. > > > regards, Rudi T. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:40:12 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: SQuick2653 Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: ICDD Diffraction Data Crystallography Scholarship Awards ICDD Diffraction Data Crystallography Scholarship Awards The International Centre for Diffraction Data (ICDD) is a non-profit scientific organization dedicated to collecting, editing, publishing, and distributing powder diffraction data for the identification of crystalline materials. The membership of the ICDD consists of worldwide representation from academe, government, and industry. It is our mission to continue as the world center for quality powder diffraction data to meet the needs of the technical community. The ICDD promotes the applications of materials characterization methods in science and technology by providing a forum for the exchange of ideas and information by means of technical meetings, schools, and conferences. The science of crystallography has played a key role in the development of X-ray diffraction, electron diffraction and neutron diffraction for the elucidation of the atomic structure of matter. Crystallography is an interdisciplinary branch of science taught in departments of physics, chemistry, geology, molecular biology, metallurgy and materials science. To encourage promising graduate students to pursue crystallographically-oriented research, the International Centre for Diffraction Data (ICDD) has established a Crystallography Scholarship Fund. While the Ewald Prize is awarded every three years to an internationally recognized crystallographer, little effort has been made by science departments to cultivate aspiring crystallographers. Convinced of the beneficial, scientific impact of the proposed scholarships for crystallographically-oriented research, the ICDD has solicited funds from private and industrial sectors to support this program. The ICDD has awarded two scholarships in 1992, two in 1993, three in 1994, three in 1995, four in 1996, and four in 1997. Applications for the 1998 awards must be received by ICDD no later than 31 October 1997. Qualifications for the applicants: The applicant should be a graduate student seeking a degree with major interest in crystallography e.g. crystal structure analysis, crystal morphology, modulated structures, correlation of atomic structure with physical properties, systematic classification of crystal structures, phase identification and materials characterization. There are no restrictions on country, race, age or sex. The term of the scholarship is one year. Application for one renewal may be made by the recipient at the end of the first year. Because a limited number of scholarships are awarded, renewal applications will be considered on a competitive basis in conjunction with all applications that have been submitted up to the closing date. Submit: 1.Curriculum Vitae, listing degree(s) held and degree(s) sought. 2.A one-page proposal by the graduate student describing the type of crystallographic research to be partially supported by the scholarship. 3.A supportive letter from the sponsoring professor of an accredited university or an institute of technology on institution letterhead. Restrictions on the scholarship fund: 1.The scholarship stipend of $2,000 is to be used by the graduate student to help defray tuition, laboratory fees and cost of books and/or journals on crystallography. A portion of the stipend may be applied to registration fees to accredited scientific meetings related to crystallography. 2.No more than one scholarship will be awarded to applicants at any one accredited institution per year. 3.The funds of the scholarship are not to be used for travel. The awarding of the scholarships shall be administered by a committee consisting of the ICDD Chairman, the Chairman of the ICDD Technical Committee, the Chairman of the ICDD Education Subcommittee and one or two individuals without a conflict of interest. One or more accredited professors (with no conflicts of interest) may be invited to assist in the selection of successful candidates. Applications must be received by 31 October 1997. Please mail to: Secretary, International Centre for Diffraction Data 12 Campus Boulevard Newtown Square, PA 19073-3273 U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:05:08 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: danu@MONITOR.NET Subject: Re: selfmade dome In-Reply-To: <19970502040401.AAA06905@ladder01.news.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 8:05 PM -0800 5/1/97, JFBECKETT wrote: >Holtor writes: > > >My own experience after watching this newsgroup for a year or better, and >asking the same question repeatedly, is that nobody online is either >capable or willing to share information in a useable form. >Jamie Beckett dear Jamie, i think this has been answered innumerable times in many ways by many people on this list. pls check the following: LIST ARCHIVES: - Reference.COM has begun archiving this list as of: Jan. 4, 1997 - Searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=3DGEODESIC@ubvm.cc.buffalo= =2Eedu And of course, Listserv itself is keeping archives of the list, dating back to June, 1992. Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) --danu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:47:30 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Action Comments: To: Gavin Schuette Gavin Schuette writes: how do I get out of this baabbble-hell? so, which is it that you're having trouble with... your email commands or copy/paste? Or are you posting all this soft-core homoporn on purpose as some sort of statement? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:45:09 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Al McMahon Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970430103831.0067f974@tpgi.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:38 PM 4/30/97 +1000, you wrote: >At 10:59 29/04/97 +0000, Chuck wrote: > >>It seems my wife has an unusual burial request, she wants to be buried >>in the foundation of a dome. She said I could build a dome over her dead >>body. >> >ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL > Huh?? > > Rudi T. > > Endeavor to Perservere..... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:45:36 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Al McMahon Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970430233751.080f3c1a@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:53 PM 4/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >fag > WHAT!?! Endeavor to Perservere..... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 20:43:33 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Re: [ega@fastlane.net: Dome web] what is your problem??? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:34:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" silence dunce! At 04:47 PM 5/2/97 CST, you wrote: >Gavin Schuette writes: >how do I get out of this baabbble-hell? > >so, which is it that you're having trouble with... your email commands or >copy/paste? > >Or are you posting all this soft-core homoporn on purpose as some sort of >statement? > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:34:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" silence dunce! send instructions on how to unsubscribe At 06:45 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:53 PM 4/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >>fag >> > > >WHAT!?! > Endeavor to Perservere..... > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:36:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: [ega@fastlane.net: Dome web] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" silence dunce! send instruction how to unsubscribe! At 08:43 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >what is your problem??? > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 23:03:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Selfmade Domes, selfish men Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jamie Beckett blustered: >My own experience after watching this newsgroup for a year or better, >and asking the same question repeatedly, is that nobody online is either >capable or willing to share information in a useable form. I would very strongly disagree with your claim. I have also confirmed via verifiable sources that you have asked NO question "repeatedly". In regard to your specific efforts at gaining knowledge, I see that you posted exactly TWO messages in the past TWO WHOLE YEARS: 95/10/22 Re: need dome manufacturer list Which simply asked that you be copied on any list sent to the original poster, and did not ask a specific question. 96/03/19 Newcomers and Models? Which was replied to by the very helpful Joe Moore on THE SAME DAY: 96/03/19 Re: Newcomers and Models (Joe Moore) If you were not happy with Joe's answer, why did you make no posts FOR A YEAR until your recent complaint? A simple "gee I was looking for more" would have gotten you (at bare minimum) an offer by Joe to send you his complete "mega-list" of more than you really wanted to know in the way of references, book titles, cross-indexes, and summaries. Instead, you said nothing for MORE THAN A YEAR. One would reasonably conclude that you had found the answer you wanted. Now, you bad-mouth the members of this list. Is this your strategy for gaining knowledge? Contribute NOTHING, lurk for a year, and then complain? It won't work. At least ASK A QUESTION if you want an ANSWER!!! In short, buy a vowel, Pop-Tart! Yes, it has been many moons since I called anyone a Pop-Tart. Perhaps Mr. Beckett does not deserve this time-honored title, but I doubt that he would understand the subtle difference between me calling him a true Pop-Tart, and awarding him the more appropriate title: "Generic Toaster Pastry, not even deserving of being called a Pop-Tart" (Such is the net in recent years, that even I must explain even such basic terms... blame it on AOhelL, Compuswerve, Mindsproing, and Micro-Snuff Nyet-Work...) As a personal view, I cannot understand how you can expect others to: a) Do your homework for you. b) Read your mind. c) Fall all over themselves replying to a request that, in essence, says: "I don't want to buy books, I don't want to request books for free via Inter-Library Loan, I don't want to bother to learn some (high-school level) math, I don't even want to read this group's FAQ, but I want YOU to spend YOUR time spoon-feeding me what you know about a very broad subject..." For those who might think that I am exaggerating, please point your web-browsers at www.dejanews.com, a) select power-search, b) go to the query filter, c) select NewsGroups matching *geodesic*, d) do a query on the text string "Beckett". You can then see what I am talking about, and read the complete works of one Mr. Jamie Beckett in regard to Fuller, domes, et al. (Both of them!) Despite your "attitude", I will once again try to help you (why? 'cause I am a REALLY nice guy...) First, read the semi-monthly "FAQ", which explains how to use the complete archives of this mailing list, newsgroup (and chowder and marching society). The archives are where the gold is. Some of it I even wrote myself, some of what I wrote is on (surprise!) models, in great detail. On the subject of models, basic math, and other beginner's issues, one may also be well-served by DejaNews, since these issues come up often enough to be in their database, which sadly, does not go back as far as the complete archives. In specific, you can read the following number of posts in Deja News right now: Query on "model": 477 matches Query on "math": 259 matches Query on "book": 715 matches Total............ 1,451 posts of possible relevance to your areas of interest This is a list "for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller and his works", as well as many other connected issues. Most folks honestly try to help people with questions, even people like yourself who do so in an inconsiderate and abusive way. BUT- this is not a service for people who do not or will not understand that one must ASK a question to get an answer. We cannot read minds. I would suggest that you need someone to explain to you the difference between: a) Computer Networks b) The Psychic Friends Network (As as aside, if they are REALLY psychics at the Psychic Friends Network, why don't THEY call YOU?) Warning: Dates in calendar are closer than they appear james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:14:03 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: WINNER TAKE ALL SOCIETY(the illusion keeps going) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the numbers here are approximation to give a feeling for the top of the cream in only one section of the market. the book gives ,besides explaining this kind of market and its relation to america as a whole, numbers of significance in other areas too. 1993 cheers lead actor ted danson refused 13 million dollar for new series of the same show. CBS 1993 David Letterman accepted 42 million dollars for 3 year contract. ABS paied 7 m $ to Peter Jennings for one year. NBC tom Brokaw got 2 million sollars. average star in a big movie such as total recall, star wars recieve 10 million dollars, and 1-3 m $ for screen play. 1977 first video cassets in the market. in the U.S 1% -families- hold 38% of all wealth. 1984 22 m copies sold. 1995 250 million, generating 5 billion dollars. from THe EINNERS TAKE ALL SOCIETY. ------------------------------------------------------------ tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:25:06 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "R.K. Treutlein" Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:45 2/05/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 08:38 PM 4/30/97 +1000, you wrote: >>At 10:59 29/04/97 +0000, Chuck wrote: >> >>>It seems my wife has an unusual burial request, she wants to be buried >>>in the foundation of a dome. She said I could build a dome over her dead >>>body. >>> >>ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL >> > >Huh?? > Ohdear, Roll On The Floor Laughing ROFL Rudi T. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 08:32:17 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: [ega@fastlane.net: Dome web] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, Gavin I have most thoroughly enjoyed watching you make yourself look like a complete idiot and obnoxious jerk on the newsgroup/list server. I haven't seen anyone so thoroughly master that fine art in a very long time, and it is quite refreshing to see that the human race hasn't lost the ability to accomplish that. Of course, since your sexual preferences have been made quite well known (much to the disgust of everyone on the list, having to download your pornographic drivel unexpectedly that they didn't want, yet still had to wait for, all for no gain in knowledge unless they were interested in corrupting their mind, while you have actually COST money to some people - Internet service isn't exactly free for those with pay by the minute access for phone service, or pay by the kilobyte web service) and those preferences tend to not lead to passing on anything that might be genetic. I usually don't go for all of Darwin's theories, but I do believe that you may make me seriously reconsider. The proof is that every 1/2 month you get a posting on how to unsubscribe. You didn't get on by accident (did you?????) and you don't get off (the newsgroup, not smut) by accident, but the posting makes it very clear and easy, if you don't completely ignore it. For the benefit of the rest of the poor souls who have had to suffer through your complaints and even worse drivel, I went to the effort to make sure you got the part of it you were asking for. I beg of you, PLEASE USE IT! I have no desire to spend any more of my time suffering from waiting for completely copied posts of garbage sent back and forth, including the fine example of smut you wish to force down the throats of every user of this group. I sincerely don't believe any of us wish to swallow. Thank you. If you don't use this information, enough people might get upset enough with you to start wasting your time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC You should receive a confirmation note in the mail when you have been successfully removed. ---------- > From: Gavin Schuette > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [ega@fastlane.net: Dome web] > Date: Friday, May 2, 1997 8:36 PM > > silence dunce! > > send instruction how to unsubscribe! > > At 08:43 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: > >what is your problem??? > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:03:43 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Sacred Hedonic Conspiracy Subject: Domes: How important is Geodesic? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Robin here. I recently came across a book written in 1981 about hexadomes. The author, Gene Hopster says the hexadome is not geodesic and has some advantages over geodesic domes. They are constructed from 4 hexagons and 3 trapazoids--leaving 3 openings at ground level for doors/windows/etc. Does anyone know if this type of construction has evolved since 1981? Is Gene Hopster still involved with domes? Any information would be appreciated. -------------------- Web Site: email: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:35:11 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Re: Action-how to get off the list Comments: cc: gavinschuette ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC april ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:35:11 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Re: Selfmade Domes, selfish men Comments: cc: jamesfischer Dear James, After i stopped laughing and was able to contain myself, it occurred to me that you have a gift. I have not read, in recent memory, so well crafted a response as yours to which I refer, including as it did: good hard facts, wrist slaps, and copious humor. Not to mention the reply itself being an oft overlooked act of civic responsibility. If there is no such service now extant, I see a career change in your future as "RENT-A-RANT" or RENT-A-VENT or the like. Impressed as all hell, I am April Hechter, P.I.T. (Psychic In Training) P.S. What is the origin of the epithet "Pop-Tart", and, do you write professionally? (If you are a practicing attorney that answer would have to be yes). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:43:19 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Selfmade Domes, selfish men Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just wanted to add my $.02. That was also quite a lesson in how to use the list more intelligently. Is this universal, encompassing many lists, or do these techniques apply only here? Thanks James. At 11:35 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >Dear James, > >After i stopped laughing and was able to contain myself, it occurred to me >that you have a gift. Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:33:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Dome Home Residents Comments: To: Allen Sanders Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm forwarding your question to both the DOME list and the GEODESIC list. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Allen Sanders > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Dome Home Residents > Date: Tuesday, March 11, 1997 9:37 PM > > We are considering building a dome home and would like to visit one or > talk to some folks who live in one and would share their enthusiasm and > experience. We live in middle Tennessee equal distance from Nashville, > Knoxville, and Chattanooga; can you help us? Thanx! > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:35:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: syn-l: Bucky Sites Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the links at my web site below. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Yukihiko YOSHIDA > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Cc: t93502yy@sfc.keio.ac.jp > Subject: syn-l: Bucky Sites > Date: Saturday, March 15, 1997 12:34 AM > > Hello,My name is Yukihiko YOSHIDA,who is studying in Japan. > I am interested in the works of Bucky Fuller ,as genelaist. > And I am searching sites on him. > If you know some of best sites,please let me know. > > Best Wishes > > --yoyo > --Yuk;-)iko YOSHIDA > Yukihiko YOSHIDA,t93502yy@sfc.keio.ac.jp > > > > > > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:54:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Selfmade (Research) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" James McCraig, noted sufi, said: >Just wanted to add my $.02. That was also quite a lesson in how to use >the list more intelligently. Is this universal, encompassing many >lists, or do these techniques apply only here? DejaNews covers the majority of UseNet (except for the alt.binaries and the "really bogus" NewsGroups. Nearly ALL mailing lists have archives, and all that have archives have some sort of index. All NewsGroups and most mailing lists create regularly posted FAQs, so the rules are much the same for everyhting everywhere. This sort of "standard approach" is the beauty of the net. It has allways been thus, and the growth of the net proves how important it is to follow conventions. As far as I know, the general approach I outlined should work for anything. Your mileage may vary... Warning: Dates in calendar are closer than they appear james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:52:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Koestler and Fuller Comments: To: Christopher Rywalt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, If all of Fuller's writings were indexed, your question would be easy to answer. I know what you're referring to, but I don't know when Bucky first wrote that idea down. I'm forwarding your question to the GEODESIC list; maybe someone else will know. Sincerely, Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Christopher Rywalt > To: Joe Moore > Subject: Koestler and Fuller > Date: Tuesday, March 18, 1997 7:30 AM > > > Hi ho. I have something of a question. > I've been reading _Janus_ by Arthur Koestler and I found an interesting > connection to Bucky Fuller. Koestler writes in a footnote: > > In a science fiction play, written many years ago, I had a > visiting maiden from an alien planet explain the central doctrine > of its religion: `...We worship gravitation. It is the only > force which does not travel through space in a rush; it is > everywhere in repose. It keeps the stars in their orbits and > our feet on our earth. It is Nature's fear of loneliness, the > earth's longing for the moon; it is love in its pure, inorganic > form.' (_Twilight Bar_, 1945) > > Now, I've never before encountered any link between Bucky and Koestler, except > that both were mentioned by Robert Anton Wilson and there's a shelf > in a used book store I frequent labeled, ``Fuller, Koestler, and the > Beats''. This footnote came as something of a surprise. > What I was wondering was if you knew about when it was the first time Bucky > said ``Gravity is love.'' I'm curious to see if one of them cribbed > from the other -- I'd suspect, if either of them did, it was Bucky -- > or if they came up with the idea from the same sources, or perhaps if > they collaborated on the concept. (Fuller isn't listed in the index of > Koestler's book, so I don't know if there's any other connection.) > Anyway, it's interesting. > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:56:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Beginning Domes Comments: To: "Robert M. Smith" Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert, I'm forwarding your post to the DOME and GEODESIC lists. Also, browse through my web pages below; there should be some links and references to exactly what you are looking for. Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Robert M. Smith > To: joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > Subject: Beginning Domes > Date: Wednesday, March 19, 1997 2:52 PM > > Please excuse my forward manner. I am very interested in geodesic domes, > but know next to nothing about how to design and construct them. I would > like to learn how to determine the angles and rib lengths necessary to > build various sizes and types of domes. I am a physician and have had > training in geometry and trig, but I'm afraid some of the math is quite > intimidating. My question is: Could you recommend a source of this > information that even I can understand and implement? I would one day like > to build a modest dome for my workshop. The shape simply fascinates me. > Any help will be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you, > Bob Smith > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: WINNER TAKE ALL SOCIETY(the illusion keeps going) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" so? read ayn rand! At 09:14 PM 5/2/97 +0000, you wrote: >the numbers here are approximation to give a feeling for the top >of the cream in only one section of the market. the book gives >,besides explaining this kind of market and its relation to america >as a whole, numbers of significance in other areas too. >1993 cheers lead actor ted danson refused 13 million dollar for new >series of the same show. >CBS 1993 David Letterman accepted 42 million dollars for 3 year >contract. >ABS paied 7 m $ to Peter Jennings for one year. >NBC tom Brokaw got 2 million sollars. > >average star in a big movie such as total recall, star wars >recieve 10 million dollars, and 1-3 m $ for screen play. > >1977 first video cassets in the market. >in the U.S 1% -families- hold 38% of all wealth. >1984 22 m copies sold. >1995 250 million, generating 5 billion dollars. > >from THe EINNERS TAKE ALL SOCIETY. >------------------------------------------------------------ >tagdi > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:17:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Selfmade Domes, selfish men Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" geeks! At 11:03 PM 5/2/97 +0000, you wrote: > Jamie Beckett blustered: > >>My own experience after watching this newsgroup for a year or better, >>and asking the same question repeatedly, is that nobody online is either >>capable or willing to share information in a useable form. > > I would very strongly disagree with your claim. > > I have also confirmed via verifiable sources that > you have asked NO question "repeatedly". > > In regard to your specific efforts at gaining knowledge, > I see that you posted exactly TWO messages in the past > TWO WHOLE YEARS: > > 95/10/22 Re: need dome manufacturer list > > Which simply asked that you be copied on any list > sent to the original poster, and did not ask a > specific question. > > 96/03/19 Newcomers and Models? > > Which was replied to by the very helpful > Joe Moore on THE SAME DAY: > > 96/03/19 Re: Newcomers and Models (Joe Moore) > > If you were not happy with Joe's answer, why did > you make no posts FOR A YEAR until your recent complaint? > A simple "gee I was looking for more" would have gotten > you (at bare minimum) an offer by Joe to send you his > complete "mega-list" of more than you really wanted to > know in the way of references, book titles, cross-indexes, > and summaries. > > Instead, you said nothing for MORE THAN A YEAR. One > would reasonably conclude that you had found the > answer you wanted. > > Now, you bad-mouth the members of this list. Is this > your strategy for gaining knowledge? Contribute NOTHING, > lurk for a year, and then complain? It won't work. At > least ASK A QUESTION if you want an ANSWER!!! > > In short, buy a vowel, Pop-Tart! > > Yes, it has been many moons since I called > anyone a Pop-Tart. Perhaps Mr. Beckett does > not deserve this time-honored title, but I > doubt that he would understand the subtle > difference between me calling him a true > Pop-Tart, and awarding him the more appropriate > title: > > "Generic Toaster Pastry, not even > deserving of being called a Pop-Tart" > > (Such is the net in recent years, that even I > must explain even such basic terms... blame it > on AOhelL, Compuswerve, Mindsproing, and > Micro-Snuff Nyet-Work...) > > As a personal view, I cannot understand how you can > expect others to: > > a) Do your homework for you. > b) Read your mind. > c) Fall all over themselves replying > to a request that, in essence, says: > > "I don't want to buy books, I don't > want to request books for free via > Inter-Library Loan, I don't want to > bother to learn some (high-school level) > math, I don't even want to read this > group's FAQ, but I want YOU to spend > YOUR time spoon-feeding me what you know > about a very broad subject..." > > For those who might think that I am exaggerating, please > point your web-browsers at www.dejanews.com, > > a) select power-search, > b) go to the query filter, > c) select NewsGroups matching *geodesic*, > d) do a query on the text string "Beckett". > > You can then see what I am talking about, and read the > complete works of one Mr. Jamie Beckett in regard to > Fuller, domes, et al. (Both of them!) > > Despite your "attitude", I will once again try to > help you (why? 'cause I am a REALLY nice guy...) > > First, read the semi-monthly "FAQ", which explains > how to use the complete archives of this mailing list, > newsgroup (and chowder and marching society). The > archives are where the gold is. Some of it I even > wrote myself, some of what I wrote is on (surprise!) > models, in great detail. > > On the subject of models, basic math, and other beginner's > issues, one may also be well-served by DejaNews, since these > issues come up often enough to be in their database, which > sadly, does not go back as far as the complete archives. > > In specific, you can read the following number of posts > in Deja News right now: > > Query on "model": 477 matches > Query on "math": 259 matches > Query on "book": 715 matches > > Total............ 1,451 posts of possible relevance > to your areas of interest > > This is a list "for the discussion of Buckminster > Fuller and his works", as well as many other connected > issues. Most folks honestly try to help people with > questions, even people like yourself who do so in an > inconsiderate and abusive way. > > BUT- this is not a service for people who do not > or will not understand that one must ASK a question > to get an answer. We cannot read minds. I would > suggest that you need someone to explain to you > the difference between: > > a) Computer Networks > > b) The Psychic Friends Network > > > (As as aside, if they are REALLY psychics at the > Psychic Friends Network, why don't THEY call YOU?) > > Warning: Dates in calendar are closer than they appear > >james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:11:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Fw: Beginning Domes - try this! Comments: To: AHechter@aol.com Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm forwarding your post to the DOME and GEODESIC lists. Thanks! **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- From: AHechter@aol.com To: joes.moore Subject: Re: Fw: Beginning Domes - try this! Date: Saturday, March 29, 1997 4:40 PM joe, Thought you might appreciate this: Found this kit at the Educational pavillion at Disney world in Fla, on sale for $3.! Company is called ikoso-kits, 28667 Spencer Creek Rd., Eugene, OR 97405 What you get when finished is a 30" diameter geodesic sphere. OR, you can round up the materials yourself and put it together. Heres' what you will need: MATERIALS 300 6" bamboo skewers (3 pkgs ) @ $.50 ea 1.50 25" polyvinyl tubing - 1/2" diam, cut into ¼" slices** ( approx 100 pcs) @ .12/ft . 30 1 map tack, to punch holes. 1 pencil-sharpened 1/4" dowel, to stretch the holes. 1 pvc tube cutter optional (better than scissors for keeping cut at 90 degrees to tubing Parts list: STRUTS: (skewers) 120 6" struts 90 5 3/16" struts (clip to length with toe-nail clippers or scissors) 60 5-1/16" struts CONNECTORS: (tubing pieces) 80 each with 6 holes (evenly spaced) (60 degree angle) 12 each with 5 holes (evenly spaced) (72 degree angle) Step 1: (90 5-3/16" struts, 60 6-hole connectors) Yield: 2 hemispheres Clip skewers to length; Punch holes in connectors with map tack and stretch with dowel Using the 5-3/16" struts, and 6-hole "connectors", put together 5 connected hexagons. You will be using every other hole on the connector. the center will look like a pentagon. Around the outside, between each of the hexagons (you will already have 2 sides) complete 5 pentagons This will give you 1/2 of a sphere. Make two. Step 2: The outside edge of your hemispheres will be made up of edges of alternating hexagons and pentagons. Into the outside corner of each pentagon on one of the two halves, should be placed a 5-3/16" skewer. Your halves are now no longer identical. Your 5 3/16" skewers are used up. Step 3: Connect the two halves as follows: the projecting struts from one half (think of these as making 3 sides of a hexagon) to the half-hexagon edges of the other half. Or, to put it another way, the struts projecting from the pentagons do not attach to pentagons on the other side. You now will have a "squishy" sphere. To stabilize, build the following: 20 hubs using the 6" skewers, and remaining 6-hole connectors, 1 skewer per hole. 12 hubs using the 5 1/16" skewers and the 5-hole connectors. Bet you can guess the rest. Install a 6-spoke hub into the center of each hexagon, and a 5-spoke hub into each pentagon. You are now using the holes you left open when building the hemispheres. I should warn you that this is labor intensive. but, very educational and ver y easy. My fingers got a bit sore from poking holes in the tubing and inserting the struts. (Don't forget to stretch the holes before trying to insert the struts) My finished sphere sits today atop the tv set in the living room, until i can decide what next to do with it. thought it might make an interesting antenna. Took about an afternoon. Although I considered it, I did not actually measure out 60 degree angles, for the hole spacing on the connectors. or 72 degree angles either. and it went together just fine. Were this a larger structure, I would have taken the trouble. It might be worthwhile to make a rubber stamp for the edge of the connectors, with acurately measured spacing on it. Got all the parts from Home Depot or similar outlet, for well under five dollars!. better than any video or book to see just how the structure and the geometry go together. Next step is to lay over some rice paper, for panels. Hope this provides you with as much fun as it did me. p.s. dimensional relationships: dome diameter = 30" or 480/16 dome edges = 5.375 " or 83/16 spokes- for hexagon = 6" or 96/16 for pentagon = 5.0625 or 81/16 .- ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:14:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Fw: Beginning Domes Comments: To: shado@netunlimited.net Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarding to DOME and GEODESIC lists. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: shado > To: Joe S. Moore > Subject: Re: Fw: Beginning Domes > Date: Monday, March 31, 1997 11:58 PM > > On Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:25:40 -0800, you wrote: > > >**************************************** > >* Joe S. Moore > >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar > >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute > >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > >**************************************** > >> like to learn how to determine the angles and rib lengths necessary to > >> build various sizes and types of domes. I am a physician and have had > >> training in geometry and trig, but I'm afraid some of the math is quite > >> intimidating. My question is: Could you recommend a source of this > >> information that even I can understand and implement? I would one day > >like > >> to build a modest dome for my workshop. The shape simply fascinates me. > >> Any help will be greatly appreciated. > >> > >> Thank you, > >> Bob Smith > Say Bob, > I beleive the best way to get all of those dimensions and > measurements that you need is to see if you can buy a set of > blueprints from a dome manufacturerer that has a time-tested design > and will meet local building codes. > Long time ago (about 20 yrs.), I had purchased seperately a set > of blueprints from Timberline domes of California. The cost was at > that time $125, expensive, but it came with an structual engineers > seal proving it would stand up to the stated wind and snow loads (You > need that seal if your local inspections department is strict and > conforms to state building codes since most inspectors cannot fathom > how a dome supports itself without any interior load bearing walls). > Now to the present, when I attempted to get my building permit, > they told me the engineer's seal was not recognized in the state I was > in and had to be sealed by an engineer registered in my state. After > spending another $450 to get an engineer who was already familiar with > the purchased plans that I had, the inspector approved of the design, > so now all I need is a septic tank approval (already have a septic > tank in the ground, just have to find it again, covered up by briar > patch). > So watch out for what plans you get and if you are going to build > a permanent structure, make sure the engineer who put his seal on the > blueprints is registered in your home state, or you may have to pay > extra to get out of the jam that I did. > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:21:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Bucky Quote Comments: To: John L Warren MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, Unfortunately, most of Bucky's writings have not been indexed, and so it is hard to pin down what he said when. I'm forwarding your question to the GEODESIC list in the hope that someone there may know the answer. Sincerely, Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: John L Warren > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Bucky Quote > Date: Friday, April 11, 1997 4:01 PM > > Joe > > Doug Holmes suggested you might know when and where Bucky said the following, or > something like this: > > Do not teach a man a new way to think, rather give him a tool, the use of which > changes the way he thinks. > > > > Appreciate any help or suggestions. > > John Warren > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > John L. Warren, Senior Program Manager, Battelle > Work: P.O. Box 999, 3230 Q Street, Richland, WA 99352 > Home: 1940 Thayer Drive, Richland, WA 99352 509-943-0412 > 509-372-4759 Fax: 509-372-6273 Email: jl_warren@pnl.gov > Web sites: http://www.estd.battelle.org http://www.pnl.gov > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > "This time like all times is a very good one,if we but know > what to do with it." Ralph Waldo Emerson > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:24:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: QoL-related activity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: John McLeod > To: m-e listserv > Subject: QoL-related activity > Date: Saturday, April 12, 1997 11:56 AM > > MISSION EARTH, an Activity of the Society for Computer Simulation, is > compiling a list of organizations concerned with the use of computer > simulation for understanding and improving the quality of life (QoL) of > regions and nations -- or globally. We are particularly interested in > studies related to sustainability. > > The list will be used by MISSION EARTH as an aid in communication with > organizations with related interests; it will not be sold or otherwise put > to commercial use. > > At this time we are primarily interested only in the names and e-mail > addresses of the organizations, but a brief e-mail description of > projects will be appreciated. Descriptive material prepared for s-mail > may be addressed to: > John McLeod > MISSION EARTH > 8484 La Jolla Shores Drive > La Jolla, CA 92037 > Our list will be shared with respondents on request. > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:40:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: self-made dome Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I forwarded your question to the DOME list plus see links in my web pages (below). **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: holtor > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: selfmade dome > Date: Friday, April 25, 1997 6:05 AM > > would someone be so kind as to point out sites where I could find > plans to built a simple geodesic dome, from woodframe or simple > metal... > or send me a plan for a dome diameter 5 metres.. > thanks beforehand > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:41:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: QoL Panel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: John McLeod > To: m-e listserv > Subject: QoL Panel > Date: Saturday, April 26, 1997 10:34 AM > > EVOLUTION OF A THOUGHT > > The thought behind MISSION EARTH was that in computer simulation > we have a powerful tool for understanding; let's try to understand > how the Quality of Life (QoL) can be improved. Whose QoL, > mankind's? Too big an order, let's try a region, or a country. > That is being tried, but even if initially successful, another > question is raised: Is the improvement sustainable? > > So, because to create an improvement that cannot be maintained > would be counterproductive, we must modify our original thought. > > To consider these and related facts, and their implications for > modelers as well as the target societies to be studied, MISSION > EARTH is planning a panel discussion for the SCS 1997 Summer > Computer Simulation Conference ('97 SCSC) to be held in Arlington, > VA, July 13-17, titled "ALTERNATIVES FOR QoL SUSTAINABILITY". > > (The possibly ambiguous title above is meant to mean the use of > alternative materials to achieve and maintain an improved QoL in > place of any materials in short supply, not the replacing > of the characteristic of sustainability with some alternative > characteristic.) > > Unlike some unstructured MISSION EARTH panel discussions held in > the past, the Moderator this time is requesting panelists to > submit brief position statements to introduce their position on > the subjects of alternative methods and/or materials for > establishing and maintaining an improved QoL. > > John McLeod > mcleod@sdsc.edu > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:56:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Domes: How important is Geodesic? Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Hopster can be reached at: Hexadome Box 2351 La Mesa, CA 91943 619-440-0434 He is still in business. See his many articles in DOME magazine. Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Sacred Hedonic Conspiracy > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Domes: How important is Geodesic? > Date: Saturday, May 03, 1997 7:03 AM > > Robin here. > > I recently came across a book written in 1981 about hexadomes. The author, > Gene Hopster says the hexadome is not geodesic and has some advantages over > geodesic domes. They are constructed from 4 hexagons and 3 > trapazoids--leaving 3 openings at ground level for doors/windows/etc. > > Does anyone know if this type of construction has evolved since 1981? Is > Gene Hopster still involved with domes? > > Any information would be appreciated. > > > -------------------- > > Web Site: > > email: > .- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:16:14 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Al McMahon Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <199705020544.RAA02002@fep1-orange.clear.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE SEND OUR GOOD BUDDY IN CALF. INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE! THANK YOU. >> > >> > > > Endeavor to Perservere..... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:57:19 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Re: Action Al, 1. were you to read the board, you would know that at least 2 of us have in fact already done exactly that. To wit: Subj: Re: Action-how to get off the list Date: 05/03/97 To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU CC: gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC april 2. Why are you asking someone else to make you more comfortable? What's wrong with your keyboard? april ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 06:52:00 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Shon Lenzo Subject: Re: go away In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970503111804.1c776136@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please stop sending Email you pathetic pervert. -Shon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:52:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: go away Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortable rythym, I moved one hand to her ass and began pressing a finger against her asshole. Realizing that I needed lubrication, I slid my hand up Allison's back and past her head to Monica's cunt and slid my finger in between Allison's bi-slut mouth and and the juicy dirty tramp fuck hole on which it sucked. Coating it quickly with the juice that Allison so obviously hungered for, I moved it back to her ass and slid it quickly into her tight little shit-hole. Her hips really began moving now as she fucked herself back and forth on my thick cock and on my finger that was moving in and out of her chute. Monica began to moan softly, and her breathing began to come in gasps. I knew her orgasm was beginning and wanted Allison to come with her. I picked up the pace of my assault on her holes and was rewarded by a continually more frenzied movement of her hips. When Monica's ass began to lift from the chair and thrust itself into Allison's face, I felt Allison's cunt and asshole both clench noticibly. The small of her back started dipping and rising in time to the fucking of my cock in and out of her hole and I heard a deep scream begin in her throat, muffled only by the jry strong crotch and moved through the juice and cunt to her own lips and escaped strongly now. Her whore hips bucked high and strong as my cock began spewing hot wet fuck into her. She jerked from the waist back and thrusted outward from the waist up, both ends fucking, one end taking, the other end giving. Suddenly her whole body locked up, tight as a drum, and then just as suddenly she went limp, falling on the floor. My now soft cock slid out of her hole and Monica was forced to release her head from her grasp. Rolling Allison over on her back I checked her breathing to make sure she was alright. I'd seen a similar response to orgasm before with Donna, so I knew she had just momentarily passed out. She stayed out longer than Donna had, however, and it was nearly five minutes before she came to. By that time Monica had knelt beside her also, partly out of concern for her safety, and partly out of gratitude for the orgasm she had just helped her achieve. When she did come to we all smiled at each other and hugged warmly. It had been a very pleasant and exciting introduction for us. Monica had been right about Allison, and I was proud of her for being able to tell. How right she had been we wouldn't know until later on. But we all knew then that there would be more times for us in the future, and we were glad. Boy, were we glad! At 06:52 AM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >Please stop sending Email you pathetic pervert. >-Shon > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:52:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" thank you beautiful From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 03:57 PM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >Al, > >1. were you to read the board, you would know that at least 2 of us have in >fact already done exactly that. To wit: > >Subj: Re: Action-how to get off the list >Date: 05/03/97 >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >CC: gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- >TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: > > Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in >the body of your letter put the line: > >SIGNOFF GEODESIC > >april > >2. Why are you asking someone else to make you more comfortable? What's >wrong with your keyboard? > >april > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:52:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 03:16 PM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE SEND OUR GOOD BUDDY IN CALF. INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO >UNSUBSCRIBE! > > >THANK YOU. >>> > >>> > >> >> > Endeavor to Perservere..... > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:52:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Domes: How important is Geodesic? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 11:56 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >Mr. Hopster can be reached at: > >Hexadome >Box 2351 >La Mesa, CA 91943 >619-440-0434 > >He is still in business. See his many articles in DOME magazine. > >Joe >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: Sacred Hedonic Conspiracy >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Domes: How important is Geodesic? >> Date: Saturday, May 03, 1997 7:03 AM >> >> Robin here. >> >> I recently came across a book written in 1981 about hexadomes. The >author, >> Gene Hopster says the hexadome is not geodesic and has some advantages >over >> geodesic domes. They are constructed from 4 hexagons and 3 >> trapazoids--leaving 3 openings at ground level for doors/windows/etc. >> >> Does anyone know if this type of construction has evolved since 1981? Is >> Gene Hopster still involved with domes? >> >> Any information would be appreciated. >> >> >> -------------------- >> >> Web Site: >> >> email: >> .- > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:52:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Fw: QoL Panel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 11:41 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: John McLeod >> To: m-e listserv >> Subject: QoL Panel >> Date: Saturday, April 26, 1997 10:34 AM >> >> EVOLUTION OF A THOUGHT >> >> The thought behind MISSION EARTH was that in computer simulation >> we have a powerful tool for understanding; let's try to understand >> how the Quality of Life (QoL) can be improved. Whose QoL, >> mankind's? Too big an order, let's try a region, or a country. >> That is being tried, but even if initially successful, another >> question is raised: Is the improvement sustainable? >> >> So, because to create an improvement that cannot be maintained >> would be counterproductive, we must modify our original thought. >> >> To consider these and related facts, and their implications for >> modelers as well as the target societies to be studied, MISSION >> EARTH is planning a panel discussion for the SCS 1997 Summer >> Computer Simulation Conference ('97 SCSC) to be held in Arlington, >> VA, July 13-17, titled "ALTERNATIVES FOR QoL SUSTAINABILITY". >> >> (The possibly ambiguous title above is meant to mean the use of >> alternative materials to achieve and maintain an improved QoL in >> place of any materials in short supply, not the replacing >> of the characteristic of sustainability with some alternative >> characteristic.) >> >> Unlike some unstructured MISSION EARTH panel discussions held in >> the past, the Moderator this time is requesting panelists to >> submit brief position statements to introduce their position on >> the subjects of alternative methods and/or materials for >> establishing and maintaining an improved QoL. >> >> John McLeod >> mcleod@sdsc.edu >> >> .- > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:52:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: self-made dome Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 11:40 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >I forwarded your question to the DOME list plus see links in my web pages >(below). >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: holtor >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: selfmade dome >> Date: Friday, April 25, 1997 6:05 AM >> >> would someone be so kind as to point out sites where I could find >> plans to built a simple geodesic dome, from woodframe or simple >> metal... >> or send me a plan for a dome diameter 5 metres.. >> thanks beforehand >> .- > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:52:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Fw: QoL-related activity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 11:24 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: John McLeod >> To: m-e listserv >> Subject: QoL-related activity >> Date: Saturday, April 12, 1997 11:56 AM >> >> MISSION EARTH, an Activity of the Society for Computer Simulation, is >> compiling a list of organizations concerned with the use of computer >> simulation for understanding and improving the quality of life (QoL) of >> regions and nations -- or globally. We are particularly interested in >> studies related to sustainability. >> >> The list will be used by MISSION EARTH as an aid in communication with >> organizations with related interests; it will not be sold or otherwise >put >> to commercial use. >> >> At this time we are primarily interested only in the names and e-mail >> addresses of the organizations, but a brief e-mail description of >> projects will be appreciated. Descriptive material prepared for s-mail >> may be addressed to: >> John McLeod >> MISSION EARTH >> 8484 La Jolla Shores Drive >> La Jolla, CA 92037 >> Our list will be shared with respondents on request. >> >> >> .- > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:53:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Bucky Quote Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 11:21 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >John, > >Unfortunately, most of Bucky's writings have not been indexed, and so it >is hard to pin down what he said when. I'm forwarding your question to >the GEODESIC list in the hope that someone there may know the answer. > >Sincerely, > >Joe > >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: John L Warren >> To: joemoore@cruzio.com >> Subject: Bucky Quote >> Date: Friday, April 11, 1997 4:01 PM >> >> Joe >> >> Doug Holmes suggested you might know when and where Bucky said the >following, or >> something like this: >> >> Do not teach a man a new way to think, rather give him a tool, the use >of which >> changes the way he thinks. >> >> >> >> Appreciate any help or suggestions. >> >> John Warren >> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> John L. Warren, Senior Program Manager, Battelle >> Work: P.O. Box 999, 3230 Q Street, Richland, WA 99352 >> Home: 1940 Thayer Drive, Richland, WA 99352 509-943-0412 >> 509-372-4759 Fax: 509-372-6273 Email: jl_warren@pnl.gov >> Web sites: http://www.estd.battelle.org http://www.pnl.gov >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> "This time like all times is a very good one,if we but know >> what to do with it." Ralph Waldo Emerson >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> .- > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:53:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Fw: Beginning Domes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE Monica and The Sales Lady "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 11:14 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >Forwarding to DOME and GEODESIC lists. >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: shado >> To: Joe S. Moore >> Subject: Re: Fw: Beginning Domes >> Date: Monday, March 31, 1997 11:58 PM >> >> On Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:25:40 -0800, you wrote: >> >> >**************************************** >> >* Joe S. Moore >> >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >> >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >> >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >> >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >> >**************************************** >> >> like to learn how to determine the angles and rib lengths necessary >to >> >> build various sizes and types of domes. I am a physician and have >had >> >> training in geometry and trig, but I'm afraid some of the math is >quite >> >> intimidating. My question is: Could you recommend a source of this >> >> information that even I can understand and implement? I would one >day >> >like >> >> to build a modest dome for my workshop. The shape simply fascinates >me. >> >> Any help will be greatly appreciated. >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> Bob Smith >> Say Bob, >> I beleive the best way to get all of those dimensions and >> measurements that you need is to see if you can buy a set of >> blueprints from a dome manufacturerer that has a time-tested design >> and will meet local building codes. >> Long time ago (about 20 yrs.), I had purchased seperately a set >> of blueprints from Timberline domes of California. The cost was at >> that time $125, expensive, but it came with an structual engineers >> seal proving it would stand up to the stated wind and snow loads (You >> need that seal if your local inspections department is strict and >> conforms to state building codes since most inspectors cannot fathom >> how a dome supports itself without any interior load bearing walls). >> Now to the present, when I attempted to get my building permit, >> they told me the engineer's seal was not recognized in the state I was >> in and had to be sealed by an engineer registered in my state. After >> spending another $450 to get an engineer who was already familiar with >> the purchased plans that I had, the inspector approved of the design, >> so now all I need is a septic tank approval (already have a septic >> tank in the ground, just have to find it again, covered up by briar >> patch). >> So watch out for what plans you get and if you are going to build >> a permanent structure, make sure the engineer who put his seal on the >> blueprints is registered in your home state, or you may have to pay >> extra to get out of the jam that I did. >> >> >> .- > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:53:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Fw: Beginning Domes - try this! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02= 1996 Path: news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog From: "Col.Brewster" Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 295 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII I did not write this story! MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE =20 =20 Monica and The Sales Lady =20 =20 =20 "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" "What time did you tell her to come?" "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to come back did you?" I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I mean." "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out for me." "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the phone. "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't sure whether to say anything or not." "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and came through our area once every three months they said. Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling way. I loved it. I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high heels and laid them beside the gown. I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and decided to give you some privacy." With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around you and go open the door for the delivery boy." She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back in to get the money to pay him. "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be the towel." "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe another night." Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked away from the door toward his car. "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the honors. "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was telling me about. Please, come in." "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable when we are here." "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much at home either, frankly." "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the chair for her. Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we retired to the living room. Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that she was aware of it. Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before speaking again. Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were literally poking out through the silky fabric. "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something under such circumstances." Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her breast with her left hand inside the gown. "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a smile. Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at me as I entered the room. Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your mouth...do it now!!!" She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her pussy into her face with her hands. Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her trembling pussy. I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had established a nice comfortaAt 11:11 AM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >I'm forwarding your post to the DOME and GEODESIC lists. Thanks! >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >From: AHechter@aol.com >To: joes.moore >Subject: Re: Fw: Beginning Domes - try this! >Date: Saturday, March 29, 1997 4:40 PM > >joe, > >Thought you might appreciate this: > >Found this kit at the Educational pavillion at Disney world in Fla, on >sale >for $3.! Company is called ikoso-kits, 28667 Spencer Creek Rd., Eugene, >OR >97405 > >What you get when finished is a 30" diameter geodesic sphere. OR, you can >round up the materials yourself and put it together. Heres' what you will >need: > >MATERIALS >300 6" bamboo skewers (3 pkgs ) @ $.50 ea > 1.50 >25" polyvinyl tubing - 1/2" diam, cut into =BC" slices** ( approx 100 >pcs) @ >.12/ft . 30 >1 map tack, to punch holes. >1 pencil-sharpened 1/4" dowel, to stretch the holes. > >1 pvc tube cutter optional (better than scissors for keeping cut at >90 >degrees to tubing > >Parts list: > >STRUTS: (skewers) >120 6" struts >90 5 3/16" struts (clip to length with toe-nail clippers or >scissors) > >60 5-1/16" struts > >CONNECTORS: (tubing pieces) >80 each with 6 holes (evenly spaced) (60 degree angle) >12 each with 5 holes (evenly spaced) (72 degree angle) > >Step 1: (90 5-3/16" struts, 60 6-hole connectors) Yield: 2 hemispheres > >Clip skewers to length; >Punch holes in connectors with map tack and stretch with dowel > >Using the 5-3/16" struts, and 6-hole "connectors", put together 5 >connected >hexagons. You will be using every other hole on the connector. the >center >will look like a pentagon. Around the outside, between each of the >hexagons >(you will already have 2 sides) complete 5 pentagons This will give you >1/2 >of a sphere. Make two. > >Step 2: > >The outside edge of your hemispheres will be made up of edges of >alternating >hexagons and pentagons. Into the outside corner of each pentagon on one >of >the two halves, should be placed a 5-3/16" skewer. Your halves are now no >longer identical. Your 5 3/16" skewers are used up. > >Step 3: > >Connect the two halves as follows: the projecting struts from one half >(think > of these as making 3 sides of a hexagon) to the half-hexagon edges of the >other half. Or, to put it another way, the struts projecting from the >pentagons do not attach to pentagons on the other side. > >You now will have a "squishy" sphere. > >To stabilize, build the following: > >20 hubs using the 6" skewers, and remaining 6-hole connectors, 1 skewer >per >hole. >12 hubs using the 5 1/16" skewers and the 5-hole connectors. > >Bet you can guess the rest. > >Install a 6-spoke hub into the center of each hexagon, and a 5-spoke hub >into >each pentagon. You are now using the holes you left open when building >the >hemispheres. > >I should warn you that this is labor intensive. but, very educational and >ver >y easy. My fingers got a bit sore from poking holes in the tubing and >inserting the struts. (Don't forget to stretch the holes before trying to >insert the struts) My finished sphere sits today atop the tv set in the >living room, until i can decide what next to do with it. thought it might >make an interesting antenna. > >Took about an afternoon. Although I considered it, I did not actually >measure out 60 degree angles, for the hole spacing on the connectors. or >72 >degree angles either. and it went together just fine. Were this a larger >structure, I would have taken the trouble. It might be worthwhile to make >a >rubber stamp for the edge of the connectors, with acurately measured >spacing >on it. > >Got all the parts from Home Depot or similar outlet, for well under five >dollars!. better than any video or book to see just how the structure and >the geometry go together. Next step is to lay over some rice paper, for >panels. > >Hope this provides you with as much fun as it did me. > >p.s. dimensional relationships: > >dome diameter =3D 30" or 480/16 >dome edges =3D 5.375 " or 83/16 >spokes- for hexagon =3D 6" or 96/16 > for pentagon =3D 5.0625 or 81/16 >.- >---------- > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:53:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: go away Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:56:30 +0100 From: Bob Fischl Subject: Re:More of Bea's Adventures SHERRI'S STORY By Bea Fischl The snow gave way to a world that was waking after the long slumber of winter. The air was warmer, the grass greener and more people were outdoors. Yet in this world of new beginnings and light, I had something heavy in my heart. I wasn't quite sure what it was but I felt restless somehow. Although I loved my husband more than anything else in the world, I wanted something more, I wanted to explore - I didn't know what. Bobby and I had fallen into the same old habit - he was away a lot and worked all the time. I taught high school English and also worked on my Master's degree. I wanted to have fun and do something thrilling. I hadn't been out with my girlfriends in months, and I even tended to stay home on the weekends when Bobby was working. I was bored and funky. I felt like that the day I met Sherri. I had just come home from school on a very warm Saturday. I had an mid-morning class so it was only 2:00 PM when I got home. I slowly trudged up the stairs to the bedroom and stripped off my clothes. I then jumped into the shower to wash off my makeup and clean up. Just as I was getting out, I heard the doorbell ring. Soaking wet, I slipped into a terry cloth robe and ran to the door. Forgetting my usual cautions, I swung open the door, and there she stood, one of the most beautiful women I had ever encountered. She stood there in white short shorts that showed off her long, tan legs. A tight tank top showed every curve of her slender torso and firm breasts. I stood there and stared for what felt like an eternity. Finally, she spoke in a quite, husky voice. "Hi, my name is Sherri. I just moved in to an apartment in the house across the street. I love your house and when I saw you drive in, I wanted to introduce myself." I felt awkward in my robe with my dripping hair, but I told her my name was Bea and invited her in. I offered her a drink and went to fridge and grabbed a bottled water and then ran to the bathroom to finish combing my hair. I came out and sat at the other end of the couch. We began talking about where she was from and how long she had lived in town. I felt this strange feeling in me, her face and eyes just drew me into them. I was extremely attracted to this woman. I tried to dismiss these thoughts as a product of my mood, but found I couldn't. We talked for almost an hour about ourselves. When she told me she had to get home, I stood from the couch. While I had been sitting, my robe tie loosened. I didn't realize it until I followed her gaze and looked down. I blushed furiously and covered myself with a slight giggle. But when I looked at her, she was searching my eyes for something. Her own nipples had grown hard under her tank top. "Well, it was very nice meeting you, Bea," She said breathlessly. "I've been wanting to go out dancing and see the sights of Rochester. Would you like to go clubbing or something soon?" I thought for a minute, and asked her if she would like to go tonight. "I'd love to," she exclaimed. "Only this time, don't get so embarrassed when you become uncovered. You really do have nice breasts." I stood there stunned as she walked toward the door. "How about 9:00 PM," she asked. At that point, anything was fine to me. I knew that I wanted this woman in a way I had never known. She closed the door softly, and I went to start getting ready. I felt anticipation growing between my legs... I was so anxious as I began doing my hair. Curl after curl, I anticipated the night to come not knowing what to expect. What could Sherri have meant when she talked about me not covering myself later. I knew my imagination had gone wild, and that she probably only meant to help me get over my embarrassment. But I couldn't stop the fantasies that were running through my head. I put on my makeup a little heavier than usual and it looked really good. I hardly noticed that I had lost five pounds until I slipped into a skirt from six years before. It was a tight little black and white mini that showed too much when I bent over. The air was still warm outside, and so I put on a pink tank top that showed my midriff. Every curve showed to perfection and I admired my reflection for an instant before the doorbell rang. I slipped into some heels and ran to the door. There Sherri stood, wearing a short peach skirt, and a form fitting body suit. Her breasts were bare underneath her top and her nipples protruded through the cotton. Our compliments became a little excessive before we realized it and we laughed the awkward moment off. Sherri offered to drive and we slipped into her red '95 Miata convertible, top down of course. Her skirt had come up a little and revealed a small patch of brown hair between her thighs. I felt a distinct wetness creep between my thighs. I was glad I hadn't worn panties either. After a long while, I stopped staring at her and enjoyed the ride. We were almost to a bar someone had recommended to her. She knew I had been looking at her and admiring her. By now, I was dripping wet, and slightly embarrassed by that fact. But I had never felt so attracted to a woman before. We arrived at the bar and walked in. The room was crowded and dim. Smoke curled towards the ceiling and was sucked away by the ventilation. It was cool enough to send shivers up my spine, and blood to my nipples. I realized it was going to be an interesting night when I noticed...most of the couples were women... I looked around apprehensively. I had never been in a bar like this before. Sherri just looked at me and smiled. She led me to two open bar stools and we ordered drinks. We stayed on those seats for over two hours, laughing and talking. Then she asked if I wanted to go out on the dance floor. It was a fast song, and so I agreed. The more we danced, the more fun we had. We sat back down, hot and sweaty. She inquired if I had ever had a bi-sexual experience. I truthfully told her no, but added that it has always been a fantasy of mine. She told me she could make my fantasies come true. A slow song came over the speakers, and she took my hand and led me to the dance floor. She put one arm around my neck and the other around my waist. I mimicked her. I could feel my pulse racing, while wetness filled my pussy. She held me close to her as she moved her hips against mine. Then it happened. She leaned over and gently kissed me. I gasped at the softness of her lips. I locked my fingers into her soft hair and kissed her back. I couldn't get over the way her lips felt against mine. Her lower hand was caressing my ass. She asked me if I wanted to leave and go back to her place. I quickly agreed and was positive that the wetness was about to run down my legs. We hurried to the car and got in... We reached her apartment shortly. My senses were heightened by my nervous anticipation. Her beautiful body pressed gently against mine as she tenderly kissed my lips. So slowly, so softly. She looked into my eyes. I could no longer stand it, I pulled her mouth to mine and kissed her firmly. Her tongue searched for mine in a desperate effort to become one with me. I held her hair twisted between my shaking fingers. She moved to my side and began caressing my nipples and breasts with her long fingernails. She continued to kiss me and our tongues swirled with a fiery passion. We lay back on the bed. She pulled her head away and looked into my eyes for a seeming eternity before she traced my nipple with her tongue, leaving a damp ring around the dark area. Her other hand began stroking my stomach. My body tensed at her touch. Extreme pleasure shivers controlled my body. Hesitantly, I reached for her breast when she suddenly took my hand and put it there for me. "Squeeze my nipples," she said in between her teasing licks. I obediently began to squeeze and pinch gently, then firmly then gently. Quickly her nipples became taut in my fingers. Her fingers began exploring lower and lower. I felt her pull delicately at my hairs. I couldn't breathe I was so excited. She knew exactly what to do. I squeezed her breasts with my hands, firmly and longingly. Her tongue began taking the same path as her fingers. Down, down my stomach... she left a damp streak of pleasure. Her tongue soon reached where her fingers were still playing with my wetted matte of pubic hair. I could no longer reach her breasts so I began to play with my own. As I softly caressed my orbs, Sherri took the plunge. Moving slowly down one thigh, Sherri used her tongue, moving ever towards my center of passion. The bedspread beneath us began soaking up the results of our intense embrace. I reached...reached between Sherri's legs and felt a warm tingle between mine. I worked my way slowly past her lips until reaching her small, hooded bud. I gently pushed and squeezed her awakening clit between my thumb and fore finger. Suddenly, Sherri became a thrashing figure as she moaned in a low, ecstatic tone. Waves of pleasure washed over her. I watched Sherri, breathless as I continued to press her button of pleasure. This was unlike anything I'd ever experienced before. The waves just wouldn't stop and I thought she would be jolted by the electricity forever. I felt my own heat mount as Sherri finally lay spent on the bed in front of me. She pursed her luscious lips and then looked deep into my pure azure eyes. "I hardly know you," Sherri said sheepishly, "yet here I am lying naked next to you." A cool breeze whooshed through the open window of the room. Outside the sun was blazing gloriously but the blaze below was unrelenting. "Well," I giggled, " I hope we have a long chance to get to know each other even more." Sherri looked back longingly and then smiled and said, "Like what are you doing in the next few days, weeks and years." I flashed a bright smile and beamed it her way. "Only you." I said with delighted glee. At 06:52 AM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >Please stop sending Email you pathetic pervert. >-Shon > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:53:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: Selfmade Domes, selfish men Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:56:30 +0100 From: Bob Fischl Subject: Re:More of Bea's Adventures SHERRI'S STORY By Bea Fischl The snow gave way to a world that was waking after the long slumber of winter. The air was warmer, the grass greener and more people were outdoors. Yet in this world of new beginnings and light, I had something heavy in my heart. I wasn't quite sure what it was but I felt restless somehow. Although I loved my husband more than anything else in the world, I wanted something more, I wanted to explore - I didn't know what. Bobby and I had fallen into the same old habit - he was away a lot and worked all the time. I taught high school English and also worked on my Master's degree. I wanted to have fun and do something thrilling. I hadn't been out with my girlfriends in months, and I even tended to stay home on the weekends when Bobby was working. I was bored and funky. I felt like that the day I met Sherri. I had just come home from school on a very warm Saturday. I had an mid-morning class so it was only 2:00 PM when I got home. I slowly trudged up the stairs to the bedroom and stripped off my clothes. I then jumped into the shower to wash off my makeup and clean up. Just as I was getting out, I heard the doorbell ring. Soaking wet, I slipped into a terry cloth robe and ran to the door. Forgetting my usual cautions, I swung open the door, and there she stood, one of the most beautiful women I had ever encountered. She stood there in white short shorts that showed off her long, tan legs. A tight tank top showed every curve of her slender torso and firm breasts. I stood there and stared for what felt like an eternity. Finally, she spoke in a quite, husky voice. "Hi, my name is Sherri. I just moved in to an apartment in the house across the street. I love your house and when I saw you drive in, I wanted to introduce myself." I felt awkward in my robe with my dripping hair, but I told her my name was Bea and invited her in. I offered her a drink and went to fridge and grabbed a bottled water and then ran to the bathroom to finish combing my hair. I came out and sat at the other end of the couch. We began talking about where she was from and how long she had lived in town. I felt this strange feeling in me, her face and eyes just drew me into them. I was extremely attracted to this woman. I tried to dismiss these thoughts as a product of my mood, but found I couldn't. We talked for almost an hour about ourselves. When she told me she had to get home, I stood from the couch. While I had been sitting, my robe tie loosened. I didn't realize it until I followed her gaze and looked down. I blushed furiously and covered myself with a slight giggle. But when I looked at her, she was searching my eyes for something. Her own nipples had grown hard under her tank top. "Well, it was very nice meeting you, Bea," She said breathlessly. "I've been wanting to go out dancing and see the sights of Rochester. Would you like to go clubbing or something soon?" I thought for a minute, and asked her if she would like to go tonight. "I'd love to," she exclaimed. "Only this time, don't get so embarrassed when you become uncovered. You really do have nice breasts." I stood there stunned as she walked toward the door. "How about 9:00 PM," she asked. At that point, anything was fine to me. I knew that I wanted this woman in a way I had never known. She closed the door softly, and I went to start getting ready. I felt anticipation growing between my legs... I was so anxious as I began doing my hair. Curl after curl, I anticipated the night to come not knowing what to expect. What could Sherri have meant when she talked about me not covering myself later. I knew my imagination had gone wild, and that she probably only meant to help me get over my embarrassment. But I couldn't stop the fantasies that were running through my head. I put on my makeup a little heavier than usual and it looked really good. I hardly noticed that I had lost five pounds until I slipped into a skirt from six years before. It was a tight little black and white mini that showed too much when I bent over. The air was still warm outside, and so I put on a pink tank top that showed my midriff. Every curve showed to perfection and I admired my reflection for an instant before the doorbell rang. I slipped into some heels and ran to the door. There Sherri stood, wearing a short peach skirt, and a form fitting body suit. Her breasts were bare underneath her top and her nipples protruded through the cotton. Our compliments became a little excessive before we realized it and we laughed the awkward moment off. Sherri offered to drive and we slipped into her red '95 Miata convertible, top down of course. Her skirt had come up a little and revealed a small patch of brown hair between her thighs. I felt a distinct wetness creep between my thighs. I was glad I hadn't worn panties either. After a long while, I stopped staring at her and enjoyed the ride. We were almost to a bar someone had recommended to her. She knew I had been looking at her and admiring her. By now, I was dripping wet, and slightly embarrassed by that fact. But I had never felt so attracted to a woman before. We arrived at the bar and walked in. The room was crowded and dim. Smoke curled towards the ceiling and was sucked away by the ventilation. It was cool enough to send shivers up my spine, and blood to my nipples. I realized it was going to be an interesting night when I noticed...most of the couples were women... I looked around apprehensively. I had never been in a bar like this before. Sherri just looked at me and smiled. She led me to two open bar stools and we ordered drinks. We stayed on those seats for over two hours, laughing and talking. Then she asked if I wanted to go out on the dance floor. It was a fast song, and so I agreed. The more we danced, the more fun we had. We sat back down, hot and sweaty. She inquired if I had ever had a bi-sexual experience. I truthfully told her no, but added that it has always been a fantasy of mine. She told me she could make my fantasies come true. A slow song came over the speakers, and she took my hand and led me to the dance floor. She put one arm around my neck and the other around my waist. I mimicked her. I could feel my pulse racing, while wetness filled my pussy. She held me close to her as she moved her hips against mine. Then it happened. She leaned over and gently kissed me. I gasped at the softness of her lips. I locked my fingers into her soft hair and kissed her back. I couldn't get over the way her lips felt against mine. Her lower hand was caressing my ass. She asked me if I wanted to leave and go back to her place. I quickly agreed and was positive that the wetness was about to run down my legs. We hurried to the car and got in... We reached her apartment shortly. My senses were heightened by my nervous anticipation. Her beautiful body pressed gently against mine as she tenderly kissed my lips. So slowly, so softly. She looked into my eyes. I could no longer stand it, I pulled her mouth to mine and kissed her firmly. Her tongue searched for mine in a desperate effort to become one with me. I held her hair twisted between my shaking fingers. She moved to my side and began caressing my nipples and breasts with her long fingernails. She continued to kiss me and our tongues swirled with a fiery passion. We lay back on the bed. She pulled her head away and looked into my eyes for a seeming eternity before she traced my nipple with her tongue, leaving a damp ring around the dark area. Her other hand began stroking my stomach. My body tensed at her touch. Extreme pleasure shivers controlled my body. Hesitantly, I reached for her breast when she suddenly took my hand and put it there for me. "Squeeze my nipples," she said in between her teasing licks. I obediently began to squeeze and pinch gently, then firmly then gently. Quickly her nipples became taut in my fingers. Her fingers began exploring lower and lower. I felt her pull delicately at my hairs. I couldn't breathe I was so excited. She knew exactly what to do. I squeezed her breasts with my hands, firmly and longingly. Her tongue began taking the same path as her fingers. Down, down my stomach... she left a damp streak of pleasure. Her tongue soon reached where her fingers were still playing with my wetted matte of pubic hair. I could no longer reach her breasts so I began to play with my own. As I softly caressed my orbs, Sherri took the plunge. Moving slowly down one thigh, Sherri used her tongue, moving ever towards my center of passion. The bedspread beneath us began soaking up the results of our intense embrace. I reached...reached between Sherri's legs and felt a warm tingle between mine. I worked my way slowly past her lips until reaching her small, hooded bud. I gently pushed and squeezed her awakening clit between my thumb and fore finger. Suddenly, Sherri became a thrashing figure as she moaned in a low, ecstatic tone. Waves of pleasure washed over her. I watched Sherri, breathless as I continued to press her button of pleasure. This was unlike anything I'd ever experienced before. The waves just wouldn't stop and I thought she would be jolted by the electricity forever. I felt my own heat mount as Sherri finally lay spent on the bed in front of me. She pursed her luscious lips and then looked deep into my pure azure eyes. "I hardly know you," Sherri said sheepishly, "yet here I am lying naked next to you." A cool breeze whooshed through the open window of the room. Outside the sun was blazing gloriously but the blaze below was unrelenting. "Well," I giggled, " I hope we have a long chance to get to know each other even more." Sherri looked back longingly and then smiled and said, "Like what are you doing in the next few days, weeks and years." I flashed a bright smile and beamed it her way. "Only you." I said with delighted glee. geeks! At 11:03 PM 5/2/97 +0000, you wrote: > Jamie Beckett blustered: > >>My own experience after watching this newsgroup for a year or better, >>and asking the same question repeatedly, is that nobody online is either >>capable or willing to share information in a useable form. > > I would very strongly disagree with your claim. > > I have also confirmed via verifiable sources that > you have asked NO question "repeatedly". > > In regard to your specific efforts at gaining knowledge, > I see that you posted exactly TWO messages in the past > TWO WHOLE YEARS: > > 95/10/22 Re: need dome manufacturer list > > Which simply asked that you be copied on any list > sent to the original poster, and did not ask a > specific question. > > 96/03/19 Newcomers and Models? > > Which was replied to by the very helpful > Joe Moore on THE SAME DAY: > > 96/03/19 Re: Newcomers and Models (Joe Moore) > > If you were not happy with Joe's answer, why did > you make no posts FOR A YEAR until your recent complaint? > A simple "gee I was looking for more" would have gotten > you (at bare minimum) an offer by Joe to send you his > complete "mega-list" of more than you really wanted to > know in the way of references, book titles, cross-indexes, > and summaries. > > Instead, you said nothing for MORE THAN A YEAR. One > would reasonably conclude that you had found the > answer you wanted. > > Now, you bad-mouth the members of this list. Is this > your strategy for gaining knowledge? Contribute NOTHING, > lurk for a year, and then complain? It won't work. At > least ASK A QUESTION if you want an ANSWER!!! > > In short, buy a vowel, Pop-Tart! > > Yes, it has been many moons since I called > anyone a Pop-Tart. Perhaps Mr. Beckett does > not deserve this time-honored title, but I > doubt that he would understand the subtle > difference between me calling him a true > Pop-Tart, and awarding him the more appropriate > title: > > "Generic Toaster Pastry, not even > deserving of being called a Pop-Tart" > > (Such is the net in recent years, that even I > must explain even such basic terms... blame it > on AOhelL, Compuswerve, Mindsproing, and > Micro-Snuff Nyet-Work...) > > As a personal view, I cannot understand how you can > expect others to: > > a) Do your homework for you. > b) Read your mind. > c) Fall all over themselves replying > to a request that, in essence, says: > > "I don't want to buy books, I don't > want to request books for free via > Inter-Library Loan, I don't want to > bother to learn some (high-school level) > math, I don't even want to read this > group's FAQ, but I want YOU to spend > YOUR time spoon-feeding me what you know > about a very broad subject..." > > For those who might think that I am exaggerating, please > point your web-browsers at www.dejanews.com, > > a) select power-search, > b) go to the query filter, > c) select NewsGroups matching *geodesic*, > d) do a query on the text string "Beckett". > > You can then see what I am talking about, and read the > complete works of one Mr. Jamie Beckett in regard to > Fuller, domes, et al. (Both of them!) > > Despite your "attitude", I will once again try to > help you (why? 'cause I am a REALLY nice guy...) > > First, read the semi-monthly "FAQ", which explains > how to use the complete archives of this mailing list, > newsgroup (and chowder and marching society). The > archives are where the gold is. Some of it I even > wrote myself, some of what I wrote is on (surprise!) > models, in great detail. > > On the subject of models, basic math, and other beginner's > issues, one may also be well-served by DejaNews, since these > issues come up often enough to be in their database, which > sadly, does not go back as far as the complete archives. > > In specific, you can read the following number of posts > in Deja News right now: > > Query on "model": 477 matches > Query on "math": 259 matches > Query on "book": 715 matches > > Total............ 1,451 posts of possible relevance > to your areas of interest > > This is a list "for the discussion of Buckminster > Fuller and his works", as well as many other connected > issues. Most folks honestly try to help people with > questions, even people like yourself who do so in an > inconsiderate and abusive way. > > BUT- this is not a service for people who do not > or will not understand that one must ASK a question > to get an answer. We cannot read minds. I would > suggest that you need someone to explain to you > the difference between: > > a) Computer Networks > > b) The Psychic Friends Network > > > (As as aside, if they are REALLY psychics at the > Psychic Friends Network, why don't THEY call YOU?) > > Warning: Dates in calendar are closer than they appear > >james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:53:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: WINNER TAKE ALL SOCIETY(the illusion keeps going) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:56:30 +0100 From: Bob Fischl Subject: Re:More of Bea's Adventures SHERRI'S STORY By Bea Fischl The snow gave way to a world that was waking after the long slumber of winter. The air was warmer, the grass greener and more people were outdoors. Yet in this world of new beginnings and light, I had something heavy in my heart. I wasn't quite sure what it was but I felt restless somehow. Although I loved my husband more than anything else in the world, I wanted something more, I wanted to explore - I didn't know what. Bobby and I had fallen into the same old habit - he was away a lot and worked all the time. I taught high school English and also worked on my Master's degree. I wanted to have fun and do something thrilling. I hadn't been out with my girlfriends in months, and I even tended to stay home on the weekends when Bobby was working. I was bored and funky. I felt like that the day I met Sherri. I had just come home from school on a very warm Saturday. I had an mid-morning class so it was only 2:00 PM when I got home. I slowly trudged up the stairs to the bedroom and stripped off my clothes. I then jumped into the shower to wash off my makeup and clean up. Just as I was getting out, I heard the doorbell ring. Soaking wet, I slipped into a terry cloth robe and ran to the door. Forgetting my usual cautions, I swung open the door, and there she stood, one of the most beautiful women I had ever encountered. She stood there in white short shorts that showed off her long, tan legs. A tight tank top showed every curve of her slender torso and firm breasts. I stood there and stared for what felt like an eternity. Finally, she spoke in a quite, husky voice. "Hi, my name is Sherri. I just moved in to an apartment in the house across the street. I love your house and when I saw you drive in, I wanted to introduce myself." I felt awkward in my robe with my dripping hair, but I told her my name was Bea and invited her in. I offered her a drink and went to fridge and grabbed a bottled water and then ran to the bathroom to finish combing my hair. I came out and sat at the other end of the couch. We began talking about where she was from and how long she had lived in town. I felt this strange feeling in me, her face and eyes just drew me into them. I was extremely attracted to this woman. I tried to dismiss these thoughts as a product of my mood, but found I couldn't. We talked for almost an hour about ourselves. When she told me she had to get home, I stood from the couch. While I had been sitting, my robe tie loosened. I didn't realize it until I followed her gaze and looked down. I blushed furiously and covered myself with a slight giggle. But when I looked at her, she was searching my eyes for something. Her own nipples had grown hard under her tank top. "Well, it was very nice meeting you, Bea," She said breathlessly. "I've been wanting to go out dancing and see the sights of Rochester. Would you like to go clubbing or something soon?" I thought for a minute, and asked her if she would like to go tonight. "I'd love to," she exclaimed. "Only this time, don't get so embarrassed when you become uncovered. You really do have nice breasts." I stood there stunned as she walked toward the door. "How about 9:00 PM," she asked. At that point, anything was fine to me. I knew that I wanted this woman in a way I had never known. She closed the door softly, and I went to start getting ready. I felt anticipation growing between my legs... I was so anxious as I began doing my hair. Curl after curl, I anticipated the night to come not knowing what to expect. What could Sherri have meant when she talked about me not covering myself later. I knew my imagination had gone wild, and that she probably only meant to help me get over my embarrassment. But I couldn't stop the fantasies that were running through my head. I put on my makeup a little heavier than usual and it looked really good. I hardly noticed that I had lost five pounds until I slipped into a skirt from six years before. It was a tight little black and white mini that showed too much when I bent over. The air was still warm outside, and so I put on a pink tank top that showed my midriff. Every curve showed to perfection and I admired my reflection for an instant before the doorbell rang. I slipped into some heels and ran to the door. There Sherri stood, wearing a short peach skirt, and a form fitting body suit. Her breasts were bare underneath her top and her nipples protruded through the cotton. Our compliments became a little excessive before we realized it and we laughed the awkward moment off. Sherri offered to drive and we slipped into her red '95 Miata convertible, top down of course. Her skirt had come up a little and revealed a small patch of brown hair between her thighs. I felt a distinct wetness creep between my thighs. I was glad I hadn't worn panties either. After a long while, I stopped staring at her and enjoyed the ride. We were almost to a bar someone had recommended to her. She knew I had been looking at her and admiring her. By now, I was dripping wet, and slightly embarrassed by that fact. But I had never felt so attracted to a woman before. We arrived at the bar and walked in. The room was crowded and dim. Smoke curled towards the ceiling and was sucked away by the ventilation. It was cool enough to send shivers up my spine, and blood to my nipples. I realized it was going to be an interesting night when I noticed...most of the couples were women... I looked around apprehensively. I had never been in a bar like this before. Sherri just looked at me and smiled. She led me to two open bar stools and we ordered drinks. We stayed on those seats for over two hours, laughing and talking. Then she asked if I wanted to go out on the dance floor. It was a fast song, and so I agreed. The more we danced, the more fun we had. We sat back down, hot and sweaty. She inquired if I had ever had a bi-sexual experience. I truthfully told her no, but added that it has always been a fantasy of mine. She told me she could make my fantasies come true. A slow song came over the speakers, and she took my hand and led me to the dance floor. She put one arm around my neck and the other around my waist. I mimicked her. I could feel my pulse racing, while wetness filled my pussy. She held me close to her as she moved her hips against mine. Then it happened. She leaned over and gently kissed me. I gasped at the softness of her lips. I locked my fingers into her soft hair and kissed her back. I couldn't get over the way her lips felt against mine. Her lower hand was caressing my ass. She asked me if I wanted to leave and go back to her place. I quickly agreed and was positive that the wetness was about to run down my legs. We hurried to the car and got in... We reached her apartment shortly. My senses were heightened by my nervous anticipation. Her beautiful body pressed gently against mine as she tenderly kissed my lips. So slowly, so softly. She looked into my eyes. I could no longer stand it, I pulled her mouth to mine and kissed her firmly. Her tongue searched for mine in a desperate effort to become one with me. I held her hair twisted between my shaking fingers. She moved to my side and began caressing my nipples and breasts with her long fingernails. She continued to kiss me and our tongues swirled with a fiery passion. We lay back on the bed. She pulled her head away and looked into my eyes for a seeming eternity before she traced my nipple with her tongue, leaving a damp ring around the dark area. Her other hand began stroking my stomach. My body tensed at her touch. Extreme pleasure shivers controlled my body. Hesitantly, I reached for her breast when she suddenly took my hand and put it there for me. "Squeeze my nipples," she said in between her teasing licks. I obediently began to squeeze and pinch gently, then firmly then gently. Quickly her nipples became taut in my fingers. Her fingers began exploring lower and lower. I felt her pull delicately at my hairs. I couldn't breathe I was so excited. She knew exactly what to do. I squeezed her breasts with my hands, firmly and longingly. Her tongue began taking the same path as her fingers. Down, down my stomach... she left a damp streak of pleasure. Her tongue soon reached where her fingers were still playing with my wetted matte of pubic hair. I could no longer reach her breasts so I began to play with my own. As I softly caressed my orbs, Sherri took the plunge. Moving slowly down one thigh, Sherri used her tongue, moving ever towards my center of passion. The bedspread beneath us began soaking up the results of our intense embrace. I reached...reached between Sherri's legs and felt a warm tingle between mine. I worked my way slowly past her lips until reaching her small, hooded bud. I gently pushed and squeezed her awakening clit between my thumb and fore finger. Suddenly, Sherri became a thrashing figure as she moaned in a low, ecstatic tone. Waves of pleasure washed over her. I watched Sherri, breathless as I continued to press her button of pleasure. This was unlike anything I'd ever experienced before. The waves just wouldn't stop and I thought she would be jolted by the electricity forever. I felt my own heat mount as Sherri finally lay spent on the bed in front of me. She pursed her luscious lips and then looked deep into my pure azure eyes. "I hardly know you," Sherri said sheepishly, "yet here I am lying naked next to you." A cool breeze whooshed through the open window of the room. Outside the sun was blazing gloriously but the blaze below was unrelenting. "Well," I giggled, " I hope we have a long chance to get to know each other even more." Sherri looked back longingly and then smiled and said, "Like what are you doing in the next few days, weeks and years." I flashed a bright smile and beamed it her way. "Only you." I said with delighted glee. so? read ayn rand! At 09:14 PM 5/2/97 +0000, you wrote: >the numbers here are approximation to give a feeling for the top >of the cream in only one section of the market. the book gives >,besides explaining this kind of market and its relation to america >as a whole, numbers of significance in other areas too. >1993 cheers lead actor ted danson refused 13 million dollar for new >series of the same show. >CBS 1993 David Letterman accepted 42 million dollars for 3 year >contract. >ABS paied 7 m $ to Peter Jennings for one year. >NBC tom Brokaw got 2 million sollars. > >average star in a big movie such as total recall, star wars >recieve 10 million dollars, and 1-3 m $ for screen play. > >1977 first video cassets in the market. >in the U.S 1% -families- hold 38% of all wealth. >1984 22 m copies sold. >1995 250 million, generating 5 billion dollars. > >from THe EINNERS TAKE ALL SOCIETY. >------------------------------------------------------------ >tagdi > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:55:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gavin Schuette Subject: Re: go away Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" please stop sending email you pathetic pervert!! At 06:52 AM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >Please stop sending Email you pathetic pervert. >-Shon > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 04:13:44 +1200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Cath Sheard Subject: Re: go away MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have had your "fun" now please stop wasting our time and money and just go away ---------- > From: Gavin Schuette > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: go away > Date: Sunday, 4 May 1997 12:55 > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:34:43 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: Action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If he doesn't stop his propogation of porn, I strongly suggest we all (individually, not from the newsgroup) send him something long and annoying, only one apiece until he quits. That would avoid the "spamming" detection, and would make it nearly impossible for him to filter it. It would also get across to him the message that he isn't appreciated. Polite methods (as polite, if not more so, than he deserves for his pathetic actions) have been tried, and appear to have failed. If he doesn't ship out, we should make life uncomfortable for as long as it takes him to leave. Is this considered revenge? I suppose that is a gray area. I'm not 100% sure myself. But he is definitely doing his best to pollute our minds with his perverted values, and I consider that to be a form of attack. Everyone has a right to defend their right to not have to get this garbage, or other extreme crap that is force fed to us via the phone lines or whatever local access point. He is stealing our time, and in some cases money. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way that I know of to reject anything he might send via the list server outright before it gets downloaded to myself or others. I would gladly unsubscribe him if I could. If you forward this message, please do not send it to the list in general so that he sees it, as it is likely to encourage him even more than he is already. Do you know of a method to send him an unmanagable amount of data via mail to overflow his account without leaving traces as to the sender? It would be awfully tempting. ---------- > From: Al McMahon > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Action > Date: Saturday, May 3, 1997 2:16 PM > > WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE SEND OUR GOOD BUDDY IN CALF. INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO > UNSUBSCRIBE! > > > THANK YOU. > >> > > >> > > > > > > Endeavor to Perservere..... > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 02:14:14 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Grosso Organization: West Coast Online, Inc. Subject: Dome in forest for sale My parent's 17 year old dome house in Woodacre, California (Marin County) is finally going on the market for the first time. It sits on a hillside in a deep redwood forest - but only 40 minutes from San Francisco. For details and great photos (even if you're not interested in buying), check out the webpage at: http://www.wco.com/~ernie/home.html - Paul ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:56:46 -0700 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: selfmade dome Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jamie, It wasn't a personal insult intended though I must confess "....It sounds to me that you are not actually motivated enough or interested enough in the subject" was over the top from me. Please accept my apology. I did start my letter trying to help with the web site so that you could find what you want without the need for in depth research. > I'm very sorry that you seemed to take my initial message as a personal > insult. And I am equaly sorry that you apparently feel I should either go > to the library to do in depth research, or get out of the game. I disagree > entirely, and yet am still very interested in the dome as a usable > structure as a home, a storage building, and a variety of other potential > uses. > For a living I write about airplanes and flying. I used to fly > professionally, but this gig is more in line with my family oriented > lifestyle, and I still get to do what I like to do. Would you like to give me some free flying lessons or perhaps I can use your pilot's licence next time I want to fly a plane - you can be responsible for me, I haven't flown before but I have read about it and saw something on T.V. once, but I'm really interested in flying and I think it's got a great future. > > The point? I am accustomed to ferreting out tough to find information. I > am accustomed to visiting the library for facts and reference material > when it is warranted. I am even accustomed to technical subject matter, > which my own expertise is the ability to break that technical and stilted > language down to usefull information that a layman can understand. > It sounds like you might even publish design information and interpret it, having already disagreed with going to a library to become better informed - do you see my point. > I have not as of yet found anyone willing or able to do that in the dome > community. This is not an indictment, just my own personal experience. > I think you could have looked a bit harder, like searched the web with "geodesic dome" as the reference. And it was an indictment. You criticised the active contributors of free and useful information, which includes myself, as not following the spirit of Bucky. > I think it is a shame that someone with the brainpower to handle the > information, the interest to pursue it, and the desire to see where it may > take him isn't enough for you. Without the additional desire to plunk down > money on your table you are not even sure I have the motivation or > interest to take up space on your newsgroup. Have you bothered to check out the references I gave you in my letter. I was actually quite helpful, and you would have found what you were looking for. And I don't recall asking for money. I was more concerned about how the information may be mis-used. > > I didn't mean to offend anyone, just to relay my own interest and > experience. The very fact that you took that opportunity to take a public > shot at me only tells me that you are not the individual I want to be > getting information from, no matter how low your rates may go. You are now, beyond doubt, meaning to offend me. I thought your letter started with an apology. > > And as for responsibility, pilots have a bit of it from time to time. You > may have heard of it on the news, like every single time one of us has a > problem that doesn't work out well. > So why can't you understand my statement? > If you're going to spend so much time up on that high soap box, I don't > think domes will ever take a hold as a major replacement for conventional > housing. You certainly turned me off. To you at least. I don't believe that anyone active in the dome area believes that domes are going to replace conventional housing. You see conventional housing is about profit - houses are built to yield the highest profit to the manufacturers with the minimum of risk to the contractors, bankers, estate agents, property developers, etc. There is a myth out there that domes are cheaper than ordinary houses. The reality is that for similar money to an ordinary house, you can have a dome. It will be more beautiful (subjective), sounder structurally (objective), more pleasant to live in (subjective) and constructed of better quality materials (objective), mainly because if you don't put the shell savings into quality materials domes don't work and end up costing heaps or not getting finished. You probably haven't read this far, because I did turn you off. But there may be others on this list who may appreciate my views. John ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:16:23 -0400 Reply-To: kb8amz@en.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Terry Morris Organization: en.com Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gavin Schuette wrote: > > thank you beautiful > > From > news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n > et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n > ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet > .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee > d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog Mon Sep 9 20:57:02 1996 > Path: > news.csd.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.n > et!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!n > ews.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet > .com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!newsfee > d.concentric.net!news-master!galileo.cris.com!Macvsog > From: "Col.Brewster" > Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories > Subject: Monica & Saleslady (FF) > Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 07:15:55 -0400 > Organization: Concentric Internet Services > Lines: 295 > Message-ID: > NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > I did not write this story! > > MRWADE15.STY BY MASTER WADE > > Monica and The Sales Lady > > "Her name is Allison, and she has the longest legs! And not > only that but she crosses them just like you taught me to cross mine, > and once while she was talking to me she laid her hand on my thigh, > really high up and squeezed it real sexy like, and it was all I could > do to keep from falling in her arms, cause she had these big..." > "Monica!! Whoa!! Slow down! I want to hear all about it, but > you're talking so fast I can't get it all!" > "I'm sorry, I guess I'm still excited....but if you had been > here you would understand...Oh, I can't wait for you to get home!!" > "What time did you tell her to come?" > "I told her you'd probably get home around 6:00 and I asked her > to come for supper around 7:00. You didn't mind my inviting her to > come back did you?" > I smiled warmly at the enthusiasm and excitement that I heard in > Monica's voice. The Allison she was so excited about was a lady who > had come to the door selling life insurance. Monica's training > allowed her to let lady salesperson's in the house as long as they > were attractive and not accompanied by a male. It also encouraged > her to determine if possible whether or not the sales lady might have > any interest in the things we were interested in, and if so to try to > set up a meeting with me if possible. Thats exactly what she had > done, and it pleased me to see her so excited about it. > "No dear, thats exactly what you were trained to do. You did > well. Now tell me once more what this Allison looked like." > "Well, she is really tall...she must be around 5'10" or maybe > even a bit taller...she had on high heels so I may be over-estimating > her height just a little. She has light brown hair, not too long, > and green eyes. She was dressed conservatively, very business-like > in a skirt and blouse. But I could tell she didn't have on a bra > under her blouse by the way her nipples pressed the front of the soft > material out. When she sat on the couch she crossed her legs and > then tucked the ankle of her right leg back under the ankle of her > left leg...just like you showed me...and slid her supporting foot > back at that angle that makes legs look so pretty...you know what I > mean." > "Was she wearing stokings?..or could you tell?", I asked. > "I really tried to tell, but it was difficult. She had on > either stockings or pantyhose one, but I'm not sure which." I heard > a small laugh come across the phone lines. "Maybe she'll wear the > same skirt and blouse tonight and you can find out for yourself." > Chuckling, I replied, "Yes, or perhaps I'll make you find out > for me." > "Yesssss, MASTER!, whatever you say!", she giggled into the > phone. > "Did she say anything to make you think she might be bi?" > "Well, it wasn't so much what she said as it was the flirty way > she said everything she had to say. She did say that I was very > attractive and that she loved petite women. Then when she rose to > leave she put her hand on my thigh, very near to my crotch and > squeezed it quite hard. I didn't want her to move it, but I wasn't > sure whether to say anything or not." > "I think you did everything exactly right, precious little slave- > slut! I can't wait to get home...in fact I may come home just a bit > early to help you get ready. This could be a fun filled night." > After we hung up I made a call to the Chamber of Commerce to > check on the insurance company that this lady supposedly worked for. > It was a well known company and she was listed as their sales > representative for our area. She worked out of Chatanooga, Tenn. and > came through our area once every three months they said. > Finally around 5:00 I got caught up enough that I could leave > work. When I got home I heard the shower running and slipped into > the bathroom quietly to find Monica laying back in the tub with her > eyes closed. She had the Shower Massage showerhead in her hand and > was letting the warm water pulse against her spread open cunt. It > had almost gotten to the place that there wasn't anything that Monica > did anymore that she didn't do in some kind of sexually fulfilling > way. I loved it. > I slipped back out just as quietly as I had entered and slipped > out of my clothes and into the nice navy smoking jacket that Monica > had given me for Christmas the year before. I took the white silk > wrap-around gown that I had given her out of the closet and laid it > on the bed. It was a very pretty gown, quite short, but still very > attractive on Monica. I found the white slippers with the very high > heels and laid them beside the gown. > I was in the kitchen fixing a screwdriver for her when I heard > the water finally stop. I made the drink stronger than necessary, > but then she expected the drinks I fixed for her to be that way. I > held the drink out to her as she came through the bathroom door > rubbing her still hard nipples with both hands. > "Oh!!, you scared me, you silly! When did you get home?" > I smiled at her and kissed her gently on the mouth. "I've been > here for a while. I saw you were, ahem, "busy" in the bathroom and > decided to give you some privacy." > With an embarrased giggle she sipped the strong drink and > replied, "Yes, I was sort of "busy", wasn't I? I'm afraid I stayed > in there too long, I've not even started supper yet." > "I called for some supper to be delivered when I saw that you > hadn't started anything yet. It should be here shortly. In fact, I > think I hear a car in the driveway now. Here...slip a towel around > you and go open the door for the delivery boy." > She gave me that "You're something, aren't you?" look, but > obediently wrapped the small towel around her and opened the door for > the teen-age delivery boy. I didn't have to watch to know what > effect she would have on him. She told him to please put it on the > dining room table for her since she couldn't let go of the towel, and > turned her back giving him a good view of her cheeks as she came back > in to get the money to pay him. > "Is it the kid with the big one?", I teased. > "Yes, you devil, and its even bigger than usual now...must be > the towel." > "Well, too bad we've other plans, he could stay awhile...maybe > another night." > Grinning a big sexy grin she took the money from me and paid the > boy off. I heard him whistle an appreciative whistle as he walked > away from the door toward his car. > "I think he heard us talking", she said with a smile, "his face > was a beet red when I walked back in and gave him the money." > Together we set the table in the dining room and no sooner had > we finished than the door-bell rang once more. This time I did the > honors. > "Hello...you must be Allison, the insurance lady that Monica was > telling me about. Please, come in." > "And you must be Mr. Wade. Monica was so kind to invite me for > supper, I really didn't expect that...she's a delightful woman." > "Yes, she is delightful in many, many ways!" I said as I ushered > Allison into the dining room. Monica was certainly right about > Allison looking like something we'd be interested in. She wasn't the > kind of woman who struck you right away as being beautiful, but she > had an air about her which told you there was alot there both to look > at and to learn about. She was quite attractive. > "I hope you'll forgive the casual way we're dressed. We enjoy > the privacy of our own home and usually wear something comfortable > when we are here." > "Oh, no...thats just fine. I dont' blame you, I don't wear much > at home either, frankly." > "Well, we certainly want you to make yourself at home while > you're with us", I said with a mischievous grin as I pulled out the > chair for her. > Dinner was fine under the circumstances. I knew that Monica and > I were anxious for it to be over with, and I got the impression that > Allison felt the same way. Finally we were all through and we > retired to the living room. > Monica and I exchanged smiles as Allison seated herself in the > same manner she had earlier in the day. This time I seated myself on > the couch next to her and Monica sat in the straight chair opposite > us. I gave Monica the code to open her legs and smiled to myself as > she sat open legged in the short gown. Her pussy was plainly > obvious, but the look on her face gave not the slightest hint that > she was aware of it. > Allison obviously had on the same outfit which Monica had > described. I could see her nipples plainly through the material of > her blouse, but it was very difficult to detect any garters through > the tight skirt. She began her presentation as if there was nothing > at all else on her mind, although I caught her glancing up often and > looking between Monica's legs. Each time she did I could detect a > nervous twitch of her eyes and watched as she swallowed hard before > speaking again. > Several times she laid forms in her lap and on two or three such > occasions I reached to her lap and took them to look at for myself. > In doing so I was soon able to brush my hand against her thigh enough > to tell that she did in fact have on a garter belt under her skirt. > Her nipples grew harder and harder behind the blouse until they were > literally poking out through the silky fabric. > "This is an unusual question, I'm sure, Allison", I said, "but > I've always wondered what the answer is. Is there a clause in > insurance policies which gives the company an out in the event that > the insured dies while engaged in an unusual sexual activity?" > Allison brightened and smiled warmly. "I guess that depends on > what you mean by unusual...just what do you mean by that?" > "Well, you see Monica is a rather unusual woman. By that I > mean that she has needs which are somewhat more....well, I mean she > often has to be....I guess what I'm trying to say is that..." > "Pleassse, please, Mr. Wade...feel free to say exactly what you > mean to me, I'm a big girl, and I've seen it all, I assure you!" > "Well, ok then...Monica is a slave-slut, Allison. Its not > unusual at all for Monica to be involved in group sex situations with > both men and women, and believe me, sometimes they can be very > physically draining. I've just often wondered what would happen as > far as insurance is concerned if she had a heart attack or something > under such circumstances." > Recrossing her legs and sliding her skirt higher on her full > thighs, Allison rubbed her hand along her calf sexily as she answered > my question. "Well, thats really a very good question, and its the > kind of question that more people should ask. Luckily for you, I > know the answer", she smiled broadly. "For insurance purposes a > heart attack is a heart attack unless it can be proven that the > insured suffered a self-induced heart attack as a way of committing > suicide. There is no case where an insurance company ever tried to > prove someone attempted suicide by fucking themselves to death." > While she had been giving her explanation to me, I had given > Monica the hand signal which indicated that she was to rub her legs. > I had displayed the signal long enough that the signal had > additionally informed her that she was to also touch her pussy. > Allison saw her hand moving on her legs out of the corner of her eye > as she spoke and when she had completed her answer focused her eyes > directly on Monica and watched calmly as her hand moved to her pussy. > Monica had now laid her head back and closed her eyes and > without any further instruction from me was now also rubbing her > breast with her left hand inside the gown. > "Would you like something to drink, Allison?", I asked with a > smile. > Without taking her eyes off of the busy little slut who was > performing for her, Allison replied breathlessly, "Yes, that would be > nice...a good cold strong drink would be very nice." > I took my time in the kitchen fixing the drink. I knew that > Monica would not stop playing with herself now unless I told her to. > I also knew that Allison would not stop watching her. > What I saw when I came back into the living room proved me right > on both counts. Monica's robe was now completely open, revealing > her small sexy body. Her left hand was pinching and pulling at the > nipple on her left breast while her right hand was busy pumping two > fingers in and out of her dripping wet cunt. She had slid down on > the chair now until her pussy was right at the edge of the seat, and > her head was still laid back and her eyes closed tightly. > Allison had pulled her dress up to her waist and was slumped > down on the couch. Her eyes were fixed on Monica and both hands were > playing in her shaved and naked fuck hole. She didn't even look at > me as I entered the room. > Sitting beside her, I lifted the glass to her lips and watched > as she sipped from it thirstily. She still made no sign whatsoever > that she was aware of my presence. Moving her drink to my right > hand, I began to unbutton her blouse with my left hand, not stopping > until I had it completely unbuttoned and had pulled it back to the > sides to reveal her hard nipples and full breasts. Having done that > I began to play with her nipples with the fingers of my left hand, > pinching and pulling at them, twisting and turning them like radio > knobs. She had two fingers from each hand inside her cunt now and > was fucking herself with the same gusto that Monica displayed across > the room. I began to talk to her in a soft sexy voice. > "You love watching her, don't you, Allison?....You love > watching the hot little bi-slut fingering her dripping wet fuck hole, > dont' you?....Look at her nipples, Allison, don't you wish you were > sucking on them now?....think how good her juices must taste...think > how good her mouth would feel sucking on your naked fuck hole....do > you want to eat her Allison?...do you?....crawl to her, you dirty > little cunt sucking tramp, crawl to her and suck her juice into your > mouth...do it now!!!" > She fell forward immediately to her knees, crawled across the > carpeted floor, and pressed her mouth tightly against Monica's wet > cunt. She slid her arms under Monica's trim thighs and pulled her > pussy into her face with her hands. > Meanwhile I moved behind her and slid her tight skirt up over > her ass. Slipping off my robe, I stroked my cock once or twice and > then knelt behind her. I rubbed the head of my thick fuck meat in > her sloppy wet slit and then began fucking her as her mouth worked > noisily on the slut cunt in front of her. Monica grabbed her head > in her hands and pressed her mouth even more tightly against her > trembling pussy. > I began pumping my cock in and out of Allison's hot cunt, > grabbing her by the hips as I stroked my meat into her. When I had > established a nice comfortaAt 03:57 PM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Al, > > > >1. were you to read the board, you would know that at least 2 of us have in > >fact already done exactly that. To wit: > > > >Subj: Re: Action-how to get off the list > >Date: 05/03/97 > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >CC: gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette) > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >- > >TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: > > > > Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in > >the body of your letter put the line: > > > >SIGNOFF GEODESIC > > > >april > > > >2. Why are you asking someone else to make you more comfortable? What's > >wrong with your keyboard? > > > >april > > > > Isn't this the listserv.geodesic area??? Did I take a wrong turn??? Say, Gavin. Take these stories to the alt.sex.male area for your pre-review, review, critiquing, or whatever else may come to mind. I'm not disrespecting your literary abilities, but you've abruptly entered your story, 'like a little sneak', into an area, where by the mere deception of entering that area with a story that relates nothing in any shape or form to a geodesic dome, YOU SIR have displayed disrespect for everyone that has come here to read about/discuss the dome!!! Now if you are in doubt as to why anyone would respond to you in a manner that is hurtful to your feelings, then you're an idiot. You found your way into this area; WHY can't you find your way out? Additionally, why did you send a second story? Terry L. Morris--------->>kb8amz@en.com && mo11332@pandora.mcs.kent.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 06:18:57 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Iman Adler Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970503175311.1fd7d1b8@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:52 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >thank you beautiful [rest of message snipped] Is there any way of reporting this activity to Gavin's email server? Or postmaster or whatever? this material is unwanted by this participant and I assume by others. Is there anything like an email petition? I'd be willing to press charges if necessary. -------------------------- David Iman Adler Solutions for Environmental Harmony Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands Design-Garden Design david@environmentalharmony.com http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 06:25:07 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Iman Adler Subject: Re: go away In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970503175555.35a70eda@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alrigh, enough is enough, I have written to UCLA's postmaster and have informed them about this activity and I am willing to press charges. I hope they answer soon. At 05:55 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >please stop sending email you pathetic pervert!! > >At 06:52 AM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Please stop sending Email you pathetic pervert. >>-Shon >> >> > > -------------------------- David Iman Adler Solutions for Environmental Harmony Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands Design-Garden Design david@environmentalharmony.com http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 07:00:48 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harmon Seaver Organization: Maddog Press Subject: Gavin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gavin is obviously mentally ill. I've sent a message to his postmaster, and I suggest that everyone on the list do the same. Send it to postmaster@rho.ben2.ucla.edu and ask that his account be closed. -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net hseaver@jaguar1.usouthal.edu ======================================================================= "Facts an' facts, an' t'ings an' t'ings: dem's all a lotta fockin' bullshit. Hear me! Dere is no truth but de one truth, an' that is de truth of Jah Rastafari." -- Sir Robert Marley, 1978 ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 10:44:47 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: gregor markowitz Subject: How to stop 'Gavin' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 1. The administrator of this list should be able to filter out a malicious user. 2. When I hit the 'reply' button, I should have a letter addressed to the individual who posted the origional only, not the whole list. A 'reply' to the whole list should take an extra step to preform. This mis-configuration can cause a 'cascade' of angry letters and a list melt-down like our man Gavin is apparently trying to start. 3. Hit the 'DELETE' key, ignore them, and they'll go away. Getting angry, writing their administrator (it's probably a fake address) or responding only eggs them on. I've learned this from participating in many emailing lists and newsgroups. 4. Once again: Take the high road. DELETE and IGNORE! We are bigger than this one little person. One more issue: It is tempting to cross-post a good letter to the GEODESIC list and to the dome-home list. If you do so, you should create two seperate letters and send them in one at a time. This will also stop the dangerous list cascade melt-down. -gregor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:00:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Action, RE-ACTION (Response to "Action") Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David Inman Adler asked about the recent postings of both off-topic and very off-color "stories" to the mailing list. >Is there any way of reporting this activity to Gavin's email server? Or >postmaster or whatever? =20 Yes there is. Here's how. This entire process took me all of 3 minutes on the mighty Information Supercollider=AE,=20 but a simple laptop would do the same job nearly as quickly. (Explaining it all by writing this e-mail took a tad longer,=20 but I have time for my colleagues when I can lend a hand...) A typical message from Gavin Schuette has the following headers: From: Gavin Schuette Date: 1997/05/01 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970430235059.2abfb8ea@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Note that the message-Ids show that the message came from "pop.ben2.ucla.edu". Note that ALL his postings have the same source, and the user account "gav" is a reasonable=20 account name for someone named "Gavin". It is therefore reasonable to assume that the named user account holder is the author. The account is based at UCLA.edu, which is the University of California at LA, a well-known, large, and (assumed to be) well-staffed school. Let's check out UCLA's WebPages (www.ucla.edu), and see who we = =20 should contact about this deliberate and unrepentant spammer... On UCLA's homepage, there is a link to "resources". It looks like a reasonable place to start. The address is: =20 http://www.ucla.edu/home/resources.html The resources page shows "computing and communications". Once again, a pretty good choice. The address of this page is: http://www.ucla.edu/campus/computing/ Gee, UCLA has a "policies and Electronic Citizenship" choice RIGHT ON THE MAIN PAGE for the computing group! Could it be that UCLA does not encourage such shenanigans? (Hint - most major Universities have been on the internet nearly as long as I. They have had time to be the victim of every dumb, malicious, and/or inept action possible, and a sufficient student population to make such events fairly common.) One of the "policies" listed is "G 29 - Procedures for Investigating Misuse of University Resources" this one indicates that we should report this misuse of University resources to both the Chancellor and the Senior Vice President-Administration. Given recent court rulings in Germany (where the manager of Compuserve was jailed for violation of their laws regarding "distribution of pornography") it is reasonable to take the position that Gavin's activities are a = =20 misuse that is illegal. Even though this is a bit of a "stretch", it will attract high-level attention to our complaint, and assure that appropriate action is taken. There are also "Campus Acceptable Use Policies", and the one for the "Office of Academic Computing" seems the most likely one to cover a student's activities. The address is: http://computing.oac.ucla.edu/perspect/polic.htm and then: http://computing.oac.ucla.edu/perspect/v19n2/v19n2p18.htm This policy clearly states that the school does not allow: =20 - Using electronic mail, talk or other=20 programs as pranks or in a threatening=20 or harassing manner.=20 - Masking the identity of an account or=20 machine or in any manner misrepresenting=20 your identity in an email or other=20 electronic communication.=20 - Sending chain letters or sending=20 advertisements, solicitations, or mass=20 mailings to individuals who have not agreed=20 to be contacted in this manner.=20 So, we do not have to worry about the exact nature of the "violation", since we have him on multiple counts. Now, let's find some e-mail addresses... The obvious ones, common to most large sistes are: postmaster@ucla.edu (e-mail administration) webmaster@ucla.edu (web administration) but let's make SURE that our complaints do not get "lost in the sauce": Cary Porter, Associate Dean of Students=20 is listed on the Dean of Student's WebPage as the contact for comments. His address is: =20 cporter@saonet.ucla.edu =20 His boss is Dr. Robert Naples, Assistant=20 Vice-Chancellor and Dean of Students. We should copy him too, just to make sure that we have covered the Chancellor's office under the "G-29" process mentioned above. The school has a police department, so we might as well shake more than two trees. Mr. Clarence=20 R. Chapman, Chief of Police is "kewl" enough to to his photo on the police WebPage, so let's copy him too, at: cchapman@ucpd.ucla.edu Now, we must word the "complaint" in an appropriate manner. I have added my message below, modify as you see fit, but=20 the key here is that we are ADULTS, and expect them to take firm and conclusive action. I expect that UCLA will answer within the week, and announce that the person in question has had some or all of his computing access revoked, which one the net, is the "Death Penalty". Anyone who wishes can cut-and-paste the addresses listed below into the "To" and "cc" fields of their e-mailer, and copy the text below with another cut-and-paste. Be sure not to reproduce my .sig (the last two lines), in your message to UCLA, since you want the e-mail to=20 be FROM YOU, and not an obvious "form letter". =20 The more, the merrier... <><><><><> If you cut here, you may damage your display screen <><><><><> To: rnapels@saonet.ucla.edu (Robert Naples) Asst. Vice-Chancellor=20 and Dean of Students. =20 cporter@saonet.ucla.edu (Cary Porter) Assoc. Dean of Students) cchapman@ucpd.ucla.edu (Clarence R. Chapman) Chief of Police) postmaster@ucla.edu (e-mail administration) webmaster@ucla.edu (web administration) Subject: Criminal Misuse of UCLA Computing Resources Dear Sirs: A student at UCLA has recently and repeatedly e-mailed=20 a large number of very long messages with blatantly=20 sexual content to a very large number of people who=20 neither wanted nor liked what they were sent. =20 This activity is called "e-mail-bombing" by computer=20 specialists, and has the net effect of flooding both=20 workstations and servers, and can result in denial of=20 service to both groups and individuals. There is a clear public record of the student's activities, in the form of a World Wide Web-based archive. You can review the specific messages by following the instructions at the end of this message. The student's name and e-mail address is apparently: Gavin Schuette He used the e-mail server below: pop.ben2.ucla.edu He (or whoever was using his account) e-mailed the messages=20 to an electronic mailing list named "List for the discussion=20 of Buckminster Fuller's Works". Our main e-mail address=20 (which sends copies of all messages to hundreds of scholars, = =20 researchers, interested professionals, and private parties) is: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU All messages are also forwarded to a UseNet NewsGroup, bit.listserv.geodesic Which is read and used by an unknown number of people worldwide (assumed to be in the thousands), since=20 UseNet NewsGroups may be used by anyone with an=20 internet account. The messages in question could only be described as "filth", similar in content to the text that might accompany photos in the sort of magazines described by the euphemism "adult magazines". It appears that the student in question did this with deliberate intent, as his reply to the obvious question "why did you do this?" was to state that he wished to be "unsubscribed" from the e-mail mailing list, and felt that this was a way to "catch our attention".=20 In fact, unsubscribing is a simple automated process,=20 which, if he had read the first message sent to all=20 subscribers, would have been easy for anyone. All e-mail mailing list use nearly identical commands. If he would have asked, he would have been told how to "unsubscribe". Instead, he chose to "mail-bomb" the list, with malice of forethought. Please be advised that these actions are a clear and compelling violation of UCLA policies. Please refer to: a) UCLA Policy "G 29" - Procedures for Investigating Misuse of University Resources b) UCLA's "Campus Acceptable Use Policies", as issued by the Office of Academic Computing, which prohibits: =20 - Using electronic mail, talk or other=20 programs as pranks or in a threatening=20 or harassing manner.=20 - Masking the identity of an account or=20 machine or in any manner misrepresenting=20 your identity in an email or other=20 electronic communication.=20 - Sending chain letters or sending=20 advertisements, solicitations, or mass=20 mailings to individuals who have not agreed=20 to be contacted in this manner.=20 Since the recent prison sentence handed down in Germany upon to the manager of Compuserve's operations over the "distribution" of similar material, we have grave=20 concerns about our group's potential liability for similar=20 criminal prosecution. We have no choice but to hold UCLA and the Regents of the University personally liable for any civil damages or criminal prosecution. Since our group includes many professionals and academics of = =20 considerable reputation, we request immediate action, and a personal statement from the University Chancellor concerning=20 this event. (The Chancellor can simply send a single e-mail message to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, and all members of the group will be informed.) The specific messages can be viewed (by those with a strong stomach) through using the following process: 1) Connect to www.DejaNews.com with a web-browser. 2) Click on "Power Search" 3) Click on "Create A Query Filter" 4) In the "NewsGroups" box, type: *geodesic* (include the asterisks), then click on "Create Filter". =20 5) On the page that will then appear, type Schuette =20 in the "Query" box, and then click on the=20 "Search" button. The specific messages will=20 then appear in a list, and can be examined. From amoebas to elephants, we're all just basic elements. Everyone is just compost in the end. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:18:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Action, RE-ACTION (Typo Correction) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ooops, I goofed. I made a typo in my prior posting on the same subject: rnapels@saonet.ucla.edu (Robert Naples) Asst. Vice-Chancellor and Dean of Students. SHOULD BE "rnaples@saonet.edu" Duh. Early Sunday AM, and I need another cuppa coffee.... From amoebas to elephants, we're all just basic elements. Everyone is just compost in the end. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:48:36 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Re: go away MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If it will help, I'll also stand with you on this. I'm tired of this crap, and will do pretty much anything of reasonable means (can't afford money wise) to shut him out completely. It burns me to spend the time deciding what is worth having, and storing it on my hard drive, and the time to download it, and then have it be something I would never even consider reading in the first place, had I only known. If needed, I am willing to make his life very miserable by sending him large amounts of garbage, to get the message across about how inconvenient he is to anyone he contacts. Thank you! ---------- > From: David Iman Adler > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: go away > Date: Sunday, May 4, 1997 5:25 AM > > Alrigh, enough is enough, I have written to UCLA's postmaster and have > informed them about this activity and I am willing to press charges. I > hope they answer soon. > > At 05:55 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: > >please stop sending email you pathetic pervert!! > > > >At 06:52 AM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: > >>Please stop sending Email you pathetic pervert. > >>-Shon > >> > >> > > > > > -------------------------- > David Iman Adler > Solutions for Environmental Harmony > Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands > Design-Garden Design > david@environmentalharmony.com http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html > Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 13:49:33 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Re: Action, RE-ACTION (Response to "Action")Additional Action? Yo, James, Your #1 fan here...what about forwarding the offending mail to a selected person, from among those you just listed. With an appropriate warning first.? Would save UCLA some legwork, and perhaps "motivate" them to empathy. Whaddya think? April ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 13:53:28 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Re: Action, RE-ACTION (Response to "Action") James, Forgot to ask, who from among those you listed, do you think would be the best recipient(s) for the forwards I just asked about? April ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 10:59:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: Is Euclidean space '3-D' by convention or because of certain undeniable facts? In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970425153342.2fe709a2@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> (message from Gavin Schuette on Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:48:50 -0700) -X-Sender: gav@pop.ben2.ucla.edu -Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic -Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:48:50 -0700 -Reply-To: "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" - -Sender: "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" - -From: Gavin Schuette - -how can i unsubscribe from this list pleeze!!!!!!!!!!!!! - I'm sorry, I didn't see this message before. I'll remove you. (Normally, there should be unsubscribe instructions going out to the list ever 2 weeks. One should have gone a few days ago.) -- Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:00:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: Is Euclidean space '3-D' by convention or because of certain undeniable facts? In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970425153342.2fe709a2@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> (message from Gavin Schuette on Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:48:50 -0700) del geodesic gav@UCLA.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:04:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970502123230.1c0f9670@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> (message from Gavin Schuette on Fri, 2 May 1997 12:31:25 -0700) -X-Sender: gav@pop.ben2.ucla.edu -Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic -Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:31:25 -0700 -Reply-To: "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" - -Sender: "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" - -From: Gavin Schuette - -how do I get out of this baabbble-hell? I've removed you. You should receive a confirmation note. ->This kind of garbage really doesn't belong here. I thought this was a ->moderated group. Gavin- grow up. ->-------------------------- ->David Iman Adler ->Solutions for Environmental Harmony ->Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands ->Design-Garden Design ->david@environmentalharmony.com http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html ->Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/ The list isn't "moderated", per se, as that would mean that every single post would go to me or another list-owner for approval before it ever went to the list. (Something I have absolutely no time for.) But it is expected that the community can decide what is and isn't appropriate. In this case, the small sampling of Gavin's posts that I just scanned were not on-topic for the list. Since he had also requested to be removed, I was happy to oblige. Sorry about the interruption. -- Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Anarchy doesn't mean out of control; it means out of _their_ control. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 13:01:00 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: How to stop 'Gavin' In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970504104446.008ca4a0@pooky.myhouse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here, here. I say we try to ignore this yahoo. In time he'll fade away. Try to "get back at him" can only backfiree. Lets stick to what we do best: learn about Fuller, the man and his dreams. Paul K ---------- > 1. The administrator of this list should be able to filter out a malicious > user. > 2. When I hit the 'reply' button, I should have a letter addressed to the > individual who posted the origional only, not the whole list. A 'reply' to > the whole list should take an extra step to preform. This mis-configuration > can cause a 'cascade' of angry letters and a list melt-down like our man > Gavin is apparently trying to start. > 3. Hit the 'DELETE' key, ignore them, and they'll go away. Getting angry, > writing their administrator (it's probably a fake address) or responding > only eggs them on. I've learned this from participating in many emailing > lists and newsgroups. > 4. Once again: Take the high road. DELETE and IGNORE! > We are bigger than this one little person. > > One more issue: It is tempting to cross-post a good letter to the GEODESIC > list and to the dome-home list. If you do so, you should create two > seperate letters and send them in one at a time. This will also stop the > dangerous list cascade melt-down. > > -gregor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:30:31 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Re: Gavin Schutte - Misuse of UCLA Computer Resources Comments: To: postmaster@rho.ben2.ucla.edu Comments: cc: robertnaples , caryporter , "clarencer.chapman" , webadministration Dear Sir, One of your account users, gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette), or someone using his account, has been polluting our List with all manner of irrelevancy, most of which is explictly sexual in nature. (There were 14 posting made by this individual yesterday alone, which I am forwarding to you). The List in question is one devoted to the discussion and exploration of the works of Buckminster Fuller. I do not believe that UCLA sanctions this particular use of it's resources, and request that this person's access to our list be curtailed. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:41:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970504061857.006ce284@host.taconic.net> (message from David Iman Adler on Sun, 4 May 1997 06:18:57 -0400) -Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 06:18:57 -0400 -From: David Iman Adler - -At 05:52 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: ->thank you beautiful - -[rest of message snipped] - -Is there any way of reporting this activity to Gavin's email server? Or -postmaster or whatever? this material is unwanted by this participant and -I assume by others. Is there anything like an email petition? - -I'd be willing to press charges if necessary. - - --------------------------- -David Iman Adler -Solutions for Environmental Harmony -Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands -Design-Garden Design -david@environmentalharmony.com http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html -Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/ - Yes, you can mail to "postmaster@offending.site" and it shoud reach someone in charge of the mail system, who would probably be able to take action if their users are abusing the services they provide. In Gavin's case, it would be "postmaster@ucla.edu" This works for almost any site on the internet, except for sites that are running NT servers. (Because Microsoft decided to break the general rules of internet mailing that have been in effect for more than 10 years, and don't include a postmaster address. Ah, well...) -- Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- "Encrypt! Encrypt! OK! All-One-Key-Steganography-Privacy! God's law prevents decryption above 1024 bytes - Exceptions? None!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:05:11 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: loretta lorance Subject: Re: Action MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've avoided getting involved in this because it is such childish boy humor. Just ignore the children and they will find somewhere else to play. However, if you children do need to bait each other, please do so privately and do not take up everyone else's time. Or, is this asking you to act too much like adults? At 06:34 PM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >silence dunce! > >At 04:47 PM 5/2/97 CST, you wrote: >>Gavin Schuette writes: >>how do I get out of this baabbble-hell? >> >>so, which is it that you're having trouble with... your email commands or >>copy/paste? >> >>Or are you posting all this soft-core homoporn on purpose as some sort of >>statement? >> >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:12:47 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Fwd: Gavin Schutte - Misuse of UCLA Computer Resources Comments: To: robertnaples Comments: cc: postmaster@rho.ben2.ucla.edu, webadministration Dear Sir, One of your students(?) and network account users, gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette), or someone using his account, has been polluting our List with all manner of irrelevancy, most of which is explictly sexual in nature. (There were 14 posting made by this individual yesterday alone; ) The List in question is one devoted to the discussion and exploration of the works of Buckminster Fuller. I do not believe that UCLA sanctions this particular use of it's computer resources, and request that this person's access to our list be curtailed. The offending messages can only be described as deliberate disruption, given the nature of the communication that has to date transpired between the above user and the participants of this list. Your cooperation in this matter is requested and a response to: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works) will notify all participants on the list, who will doubtless by now be e-mailing you!. Sincerely, April Hechter --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Gavin Schutte - Misuse of UCLA Computer Resources Date: 97-05-04 14:30:49 EDT From: AHechter To: postmaster@rho.ben2.ucla.edu CC: GEODESIC@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu CC: rrnapels@saonet.edu(robertnaples)asst.vice-chancelloranddeanofstudents. CC: cporter@saonet.ucla.edu(caryporter)assoc.deanofstudents) CC: cchapman@ucpd.ucla.edu(clarencer.chapman)chiefofpolice) CC: webmaster@ucla.edu(webadministration) Dear Sir, One of your account users, gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette), or someone using his account, has been polluting our List with all manner of irrelevancy, most of which is explictly sexual in nature. (There were 14 posting made by this individual yesterday alone, which I am forwarding to you). The List in question is one devoted to the discussion and exploration of the works of Buckminster Fuller. I do not believe that UCLA sanctions this particular use of it's resources, and request that this person's access to our list be curtailed. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:19:19 +0000 Reply-To: cas1276@madison.tec.wi.us Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck Stoffregen Organization: Madison Area Technical College Subject: Re: Action, RE-ACTION (Response to "Action") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > > David Inman Adler asked about the recent postings of > both off-topic and very off-color "stories" to the > mailing list. > > >Is there any way of reporting this activity to Gavin's email server? Or > >postmaster or whatever? > James, Thank you, I hope your action will stop Gavin. I am not apithetic, but too busy to reply myself. Chuck Stoffregen cas1276@madison.tec.wi.us ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:21:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: How to stop 'Gavin' In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970504104446.008ca4a0@pooky.myhouse.com> (message from gregor markowitz on Sun, 4 May 1997 10:44:47 -0400) -X-Sender: muddy@pooky.myhouse.com -Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic -Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 10:44:47 -0400 -From: gregor markowitz - -1. The administrator of this list should be able to filter out a malicious -user. The adminstrator has. :-) -2. When I hit the 'reply' button, I should have a letter addressed to the -individual who posted the origional only, not the whole list. A 'reply' to -the whole list should take an extra step to preform. This mis-configuration -can cause a 'cascade' of angry letters and a list melt-down like our man -Gavin is apparently trying to start. I disagree. The user sending the mail has the responsibility to check their own headers to make sure they mail is going where it's intended. Otherwise, the user is going to be either indiscriminately spamming, or worse yet, saying something embarassing in a public forum that they really meant for private email. It's a painful lesson to learn, and we've ALL done it on more than one occaision. But it's important to check your own address lines. The GEODESIC list has been functioning for more than 8 years with the setup that it has, and it hasn't melted down, yet. So the people here seem good about checking such things. -3. Hit the 'DELETE' key, ignore them, and they'll go away. Getting angry, -writing their administrator (it's probably a fake address) or responding -only eggs them on. I've learned this from participating in many emailing -lists and newsgroups. As noted in my other note, "postmaster@wherever.site" is the appropriate address to mail complaints to when a user is abusing the network. This has been in effect, as per section 6.3 of RFC 822, since August 13, 1982. Microsoft is the only company who's apparently decided not to comply with this standard. To quote RFC 822: (Snip snip) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6.3. RESERVED ADDRESS It often is necessary to send mail to a site, without know- ing any of its valid addresses. For example, there may be mail system dysfunctions, or a user may wish to find out a person's correct address, at that site. This standard specifies a single, reserved mailbox address (local-part) which is to be valid at each site. Mail sent to that address is to be routed to a person responsible for the site's mail system or to a person with responsibility for general site operation. The name of the reserved local-part address is: Postmaster so that "Postmaster@domain" is required to be valid. Note: This reserved local-part must be matched without sensi- tivity to alphabetic case, so that "POSTMASTER", "postmas- ter", and even "poStmASteR" is to be accepted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You can find a complete, searchable index of all the internet RFC's at http://www.csl.sony.co.jp/rfc/ Might want to bookmark that. :-) -4. Once again: Take the high road. DELETE and IGNORE! - We are bigger than this one little person. True enough! -One more issue: It is tempting to cross-post a good letter to the GEODESIC -list and to the dome-home list. If you do so, you should create two -seperate letters and send them in one at a time. This will also stop the -dangerous list cascade melt-down. - --gregor Actually, that's another point of dispute. While it may stop cross-posts, which don't usually lead to melt-downs, it generates more traffic on the networks. Why have 2 distinct notes, with two distinct headers, being sent to people who would normally receive them if they were just CC:'d to each other? In fact, if one gets into the habit of "sending separate letters", then one quickly falls into the same habits as spammers do. If spammers would learn how to use their software properly, they could post a note to usenet which was CORRECTLY cross-posted to many groups. ONE note. ONE posting. ONE message-ID. Even if it went to 10,000 news groups, it would still be taking up ONE inode on the news spool filesystem, and would only have ONE message-ID. I repeat that last bit because it's important. Your news software can and does filter on message-ID. If you've seen the message ID, then it's marked as "read", even if it's in 9999 other groups. So the spammers could get their seemingly important message out to the world, but everyone else, while seeing it once, would ONLY see it once. It's quite obvious that spammers aren't going to stop anytime soon. But I just wish they'd smarten up a bit and learn how to use things properly. People would be much less beligerent to them if each spam note only crossed their screen one time. (Zero would be ideal, but 1 beats out 10,000.) Maybe we should just make fun of the spammers and point them to RFC 1036. :-) Anyway, I would disagree that sending individual copies of the same message to different places is the way to go. Cross-posts have a valid function, and that's to tie together groups that share some point of interest. As always, the poster needs to use discretion when making a cross-post, and as always, each user needs to check their headers when they send a reply, because if their reply does not pertain to the cross-posted groups, then you're likely to see cascades & melt-downs. ALWAYS check your headers. :-) -- Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- There is a difference between apathy and withdrawing in disgust. -troy sheets ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:25:41 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Gavin Schutte - Misuse of UCLA Computer Resources Comments: To: robertnaples CC: postmaster@rho.ben2.ucla.edu CC: webmaster@ucla.edu(webadministration) CC: GEODESIC@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu Dear Sir, One of your students(?) and network account users, gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette), or someone using his account, has been polluting our List with all manner of irrelevancy, most of which is explictly sexual in nature. (There were 14 posting made by this individual yesterday alone; ) The List in question is one devoted to the discussion and exploration of the works of Buckminster Fuller. I do not believe that UCLA sanctions this particular use of it's computer resources, and request that this person's access to our list be curtailed. The offending messages can only be described as deliberate disruption, given the nature of the communication that has to date transpired between the above user and the participants of this list. Your cooperation in this matter is requested and a response to: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works) will notify all participants on the list, who will doubtless by now be e-mailing you!. Sincerely, April Hechter ----------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:37:37 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Gavin Schutte - Misuse of UCLA Computer Resources Comments: To: postmaster@rho.ben2.ucla.edu CC: rnapels@saonet.ucla.edu(robertnaples)asst.vice-chancellor&deanofstudents CC: webmaster@ucla.edu(webadministration) CC: GEODESIC@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu Dear Sir, One of your students(?) and network account users, gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette), or someone using his account, has been polluting our List with all manner of irrelevancy, most of which is explictly sexual in nature. (There were 14 posting made by this individual yesterday alone; ) The List in question is one devoted to the discussion and exploration of the works of Buckminster Fuller. I do not believe that UCLA sanctions this particular use of it's computer resources, and request that this person's access to our list be curtailed. The offending messages can only be described as deliberate disruption, given the nature of the communication that has to date transpired between the above user and the participants of this list. Your cooperation in this matter is requested and a response to: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works) will notify all participants on the list, who will doubtless by now be e-mailing you!. Sincerely, April Hechter ----------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:56:24 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Domes: How important is Geodesic? Sacred Hedonic Conspiracy ,Internet writes: > Gene Hopster says the hexadome is not geodesic > and has some advantages over geodesic domes. > They are constructed from 4 hexagons and 3 > trapazoids--leaving 3 openings at ground > level for doors/windows/etc. I've seen these, though it's been a while; I think that, if you look hard at the trapezoids, they are really truncated pentagons... which would mean that these domes are, indeed, geodesic. Am I wrong? jmr ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:17:10 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Gavin Shuette To the rest of the readers of this list: I've taken it upon myself (twice, now) to send this misguided individual instructions about how to unsubscribe. Maybe he'll change his mind. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:00:01 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: go away Well, it's obvious by now, folk, that our pinheaded friend is just using us, and this list, to get his kicks. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt; I would prefer, now, to give him the benefit of my foot... but I'm still interested to see if he will be able to find something intelligent or constructive to say. How about it, Gavin? You got anything in there besides copy&paste? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:48:30 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: WINNER TAKE ALL SOCIETY(the illusion keeps going) Gavin Schuette writes: so? read ayn rand! I've read a lot of Ayn Rand. What's your point? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:35:13 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: April Hechter Subject: Re: Gavin Harmon, Thanks for the address. Have done, and to the Webmaster <> either that, or someone else is using his account. April hechter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:31:41 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Gavin Harmon Seaver writes: > Gavin is obviously mentally ill. Well, it appears that there is at least one thing posted to this list that we can all agree on... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:29:28 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Action David Iman Adler writes: > Is there any way of reporting this activity to Gavin's > email server? Or postmaster or whatever? I've already (perhaps presumptuously) taken such action, not on the part of the Listserv, but simply as a private individual who's tired of seeing the same obnoxious garbage on the listserv posted 8 times. Of course, if others feel the same way, there's nothing to prevent the UCLA postmaster from receiving an overwhelming request for the termination of Shuettte's account... (hint, hint, hint). (I still think he might be merely inept, not simply malicious.) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:45:05 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Action loretta lorance writes: > I've avoided getting involved in this because > it is such childish boy humor. While evidence supports your conclusion, other evidence indicates that Gavin just doesn't know how to use his email commands, or at least doesn't know how to use them very well. I'm sure that if he knows what he's doing, he'll eventually get tired of doing it... and go elsewhere and do it some more. For both these reasons, I've written to his postmaster. My message, which you quoted, was entirely serious, not an attempt to "bait" him. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:02:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Action, RE-ACTION (But not OVER-reaction!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" April said: >Yo, James, > >Your #1 fan here... No, please. I live a private life these days, so I cannot (by definition) have a "fan club" anymore. >what about forwarding the offending mail to a selected >person, from among those you just listed. With an appropriate warning >first.? Would save UCLA some legwork, and perhaps "motivate" them to >empathy. Whaddya think? Moby bad idea. It munches. Don't do it. They do NOT need the crap forwarded. They can have some techno-geek on their staff dig up the e-mail if they cannot handle the simple instructions I sent them. Forwarding the mail looks like you are trying to mail-bomb them, since the messages are so long and there are so many. One must stand above the tactics of the idiots, or risk being judged an idiot oneself. Therefore, one should only send a reference, not the complete postings. From amoebas to elephants, we're all just basic elements. Everyone is just compost in the end. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:13:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: quantum numbers, computer based on spin ,dome interior customazation softwar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit q from a magazine: the spin of a nucleus is quantized: unlike the axis of spinning top, whose direction can be measured simutaneously along all three spatial axes, nuclear spins, though randomly distributed in any bulk sample can be measured along only one spatial axis at a time. hence they can be described as pointing in only one ot two directions, conventilnally called up or down- in or out. the up and down states can serve perfectly well to represent ordinary computation with 1s and 0s. ------------------------------------------------------- i saw building company that had interactive house plane on the internet, where, any client can change it to suit his ideal. was wondering if this can be doen with the dome. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 04:13:27 +1200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: cath & tony sheard Subject: Gavin Go Away MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have had your "fun" now why don't you go away and stop wasting our time and money with your rather silly stories ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:26:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: Action In-Reply-To: <00027153.fc@management21.com> (jmr@MANAGEMENT21.COM) -X-FirstClass: 0x59F8 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x000F5322 0x0000 -X-HoloGate: 1.1.7 -Lines: 3 -Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic -Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:01:13 CST -Reply-To: "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" - -Sender: "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" - -From: "J. Michael Rowland" -Organization: Management 21 Inc. - -Al McMahon writes: -> P.S. ~Pat~ is this also a domesteading project? -(This sounds like a DomeSteading project to me....) - Yeah, it certainly does. :-) -- Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. -- Henry Spencer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:40:57 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "R.K. Treutlein" Subject: Re: Action Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 00:34 4/05/97 -0500, you wrote: >If he doesn't stop his propogation of porn, I strongly suggest we all >(individually, not from the newsgroup) send him something long and >annoying, only one apiece until he quits. I do believe the answer is for the list owner to contact his postmaster and complain about him. That should get his account closed. Sending him letter bombs makes us no better than he is. Rudi Treutlein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:20:29 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "R.K. Treutlein" Subject: Re: Gavin Shuette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, he has now been unsubscribed from the list. Let us hope that this will actually keep his messages off the list. One does not need to be subscribed to send messages to the list. Hopefully the action with ucla administrators will close him down. Rudi Treutlein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 06:35:27 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Koestler and Fuller Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >> Hi ho. I have something of a question. >> I've been reading _Janus_ by Arthur Koestler and I found an interesting >> connection to Bucky Fuller. Koestler writes in a footnote: >> <> Bucky mentions Koestler in Synergetics -- something about gravity as the nostalgia of things to become spheres. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:00:19 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: Domes: How important is Geodesic? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We use essentially the same format for our 32' dome. There is some cost advantage to this style of dome over the conventional 3v spheres. The fact of the matter is that it takes the same amount of time to finish off the 60 triangles in a 30' 3v dome as it does to finish off the 60 triangles in a 50' dome. So while you are saving on materials with the smaller dome, your labor costs remain the same (you really ought to remember to value your own time if you plan to build the whole thing yourself). Also, on a 30' dome, you are obligated to build some sort of riser wall or some custom triangle panels to make your natural openings large enough to fit your windows and doors in at standard heights. On the 32' dome, this is not the case, which eliminates all of the riser wall cost and complexity. The 32' dome is also essentially a 5/8 sphere, so you ample space in the loft. Due to the reduced number of triangles, you do not have the usually cost premium due to the 5/8 sphere. In our panelized system, the panels on the 32' dome are the same size as those on a 50' dome, meaning that they can still be handled by a crew of unskilled labor (family and friends) without mechanical assistance. I'm a big fan of this dome due to its cost structure and the taller feel of the 5/8 sphere design. I hope this helps. Sacred Hedonic Conspiracy wrote: > > Robin here. > > I recently came across a book written in 1981 about hexadomes. The author, > Gene Hopster says the hexadome is not geodesic and has some advantages over > geodesic domes. They are constructed from 4 hexagons and 3 > trapazoids--leaving 3 openings at ground level for doors/windows/etc. > > Does anyone know if this type of construction has evolved since 1981? Is > Gene Hopster still involved with domes? > > Any information would be appreciated. > > -------------------- > > Web Site: > > email: -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 18:52:59 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Al McMahon Subject: Action again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi- I will assume Gavin is dead. Back to my original point. How many people are on this list? Does anyone want to pool funds and create a physical location to use to experiment? The Sufi orginization, Ram Dass & Co., Earthships and the community in New Mexico. These are starts to look at. I had another thought that could be a [Goal?!?]. Imagine if you had a location where people went to work on ideas of what works/ doesn't work/ what kind of effort is needed to build a dome/ earthship etc.. . . Mostly I find a need for this by my own wants. Where can I go to learn these things? I want to build an earthship so I can learn how to build one myself. It would be short sighted of me to just get the info and run. In this age the info should by VERY accessable. But the experience needs to be equally accessable. If tied into certain environmental departments at some universities students could come and research and write papers on concepts. (fresh ideas, new blood, giving experience and getting fresh perspectives and free labor). Again I was wondering what the most inexpensive property (not soiled) people in our group can locate. "Gavin is gone, long live . . . . love" -Thanks- Al McMahon "Thinking is the best way to Travel" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:54:49 -0700 Reply-To: carl@primenet.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Carl Rhoades Subject: Re: Parabolic cooker? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby. I was just browsing through some old postings from 4/4/97 and was facinated by your discription of a dome with modified panel sizes to make it approximate a parabola. anyone out there capable of the math to re-create this arrangement. I have always been intrested in solor heating and energy coversion (in my younger years I was senior director of the Utah Solar Energy Society) I now live in Phoenix Arizona (360 days per year of blistering solar energy) I am building a 20 ft 5/8 dome of electrical tubing flatened on the ends and joined with bolts as a pool cover and shaded green house the parabola sounds like a good pool heater. On a similar note one of my all time favorite designs for a solor collector was a ring about 4ft diameter and 3 inches thick with a solid, sealed bottom and aluminized mylar streached over the top. a tube about 1/2 inch high was centered through the bottom plate and then a vacumn was applied from the outside to suck the mylar down untill it sealed the tube, the curve approximates a parabola and is always mantained in the same position (if a little air leaks in the mylar lifts off the tube and then is immidiatly pulled back down to the same position) many of these rings could then be arranged into as large of an array as desired and individually aimed at a center coil or boiler arrangment and focal length could be changed by the length of the tube (thus the depth of the curve) I would like to hear about any other geo/solar ideas out there Carl Rhoades Information Manager Color Inc Tempe, AZ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 00:45:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Parabolic cooker? (Paraoblic Deep Fat Fryer!) Comments: cc: carl@primenet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Carl Rhoades (carl@primenet.com) said: > I was just browsing through some old postings from 4/4/97 and was >facinated by your discription of a dome with modified panel sizes to >make it approximate a parabola. >I have always been intrested in solor heating and energy coversion >(in my younger years I was senior director of the Utah Solar Energy >Society) I now live in Phoenix Arizona (360 days per year of >blistering solar energy) Careful now, are you sure you really want a parabolic dish reflector? The maximum temps created are very high. My "two cents" may well be common knowledge to a person with your background, but are you fully prepared to only approach this beastie dressed like a welder, complete with goggles, asbestos gloves, and a very liberal life insurance policy? A parabolic dish focusing collector that would track the sun well in your location would make a fine foundry! The steam pressure created by heating water with such a gizmo would be a big liability. Good steam-pressure pipe, fittings, relief valves and such run your cost up. Homebrew steam engines have a nasty habit of exploding, so that is most often a not-very-good idea. With all the sunshine you have, a standard (spherical) geodesic half-dome with a reflective surface may suffice. If you use a spherical, rather than a parabolic, there will be no "focus", so there will be no single point of dangerous high temperature. The trick with a sphere is to create a "U-turn" tube heating pipe assembly that swivels at the "north pole" of the sphere, tracks and points at the sun, and lets the half-sphere stay fixed. If you are willing to accept water that is less than boiling (a good safety factor in itself), such a rig will be less complex than a parabolic, and less of a risk from an operational standpoint. If you MUST have a parabolic, offhand I do not have the math handy to (nor do I see any reason why anyone would want to) implement it as a geodesic structure. A more practical parabolic would be a trough, since it could "track" the sun by being rotated through a fixed axis, without the worries of two-axis motion inherent in a "dish" parabolic. The linear nature of such a collector is more suited to heating a liquid, which is the usual goal in these efforts. The focus is also less of a danger, since the trough does not create as high a focus temperature per square inch of focus area. Since the focus is a "line" it allows you to heat water (or whatever) all along the length of the trough (in a pipe), and to have more than a single point where the liquid is heated. As an aside, why not run a cooling system with your solar collector? I assume that "cool" would be of more practical value than "heat" in your area. The simplest system would be an ammonia-cycle machine, taken straight from the old (obsolete) technology of the pre-CFC days. This would also NOT require a parabolic. A flat-plate collector would do fine for an under 4,000 sq ft building. Ammonia may be a bother if it leaks, but the good news is much better than the "bad" news: a) There is no doubt in your mind when it leaks. It stinks. The smell goes away quickly, and is not harmful in the small concentrations that would result from a leak in a well-ventilated structure. b) Ammonia never ate a hole in the ozone, in fact, it never even THOUGHT about eating a hole in the ozone. c) The technology required to exploit the ammonia cycle is well documented and less complex/expensive that the technology required to exploit CFCs. If, after all the warnings above, you still MUST have a parabolic dish, please make sure that it has a fail-safe that takes it off-axis if temps/pressures go above a threshold level. Also NEVER work on a reflective parabolic that is pointing ANYWHERE up. Mount it (think of a POLAR mount, just like a telescope) so that it can point DOWN for repair work. The reason why I have great respect for the power of parabolics is that I built one many moons ago, and quickly realized what a liability it was to be working with high-pressure steam, high temps, and such. The damned thing was so good, it was scary. It made me realize that the mythology about the folks with mirrors standing on the shore and burning an attacking fleet (what is this story from? memory fails me) was not only plausible, but practical! From amoebas to elephants, we're all just basic elements. Everyone is just compost in the end. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:06:59 +1200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Cath Sheard Subject: Re: Action again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alas, poor Gavin! We knew him, Horatio: a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy…. (with apologies to William Shakespeare) Your idea sounds good in theory - but won't it be hard (near impossible) given that list members are spread all over the world? Or did you see people getting involved in short bursts (longish holidays etc)? One the projects have been built what would you have done with them? Are they for participants to buy, live in, donate to the homeless? Cath > From: Al McMahon > Subject: Action again > Date: Tuesday, 6 May 1997 10:52 > I will assume Gavin is dead. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 05:46:28 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harmon Seaver Organization: Maddog Press Subject: Re: Parabolic cooker? (Paraoblic Deep Fat Fryer!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > My "two cents" may well be common knowledge to a person > with your background, but are you fully prepared to only > approach this beastie dressed like a welder, complete > with goggles, asbestos gloves, and a very liberal > life insurance policy? > That's a bit of an overstatement. People do use parabolic reflectors for cooking all the time. Check out the solarcooking-l list. People in 3rd world countrys are even forming them out of mud and dung, then coating the surface with reflective stuff. And you can buy commercial models. -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net hseaver@jaguar1.usouthal.edu ======================================================================= "Facts an' facts, an' t'ings an' t'ings: dem's all a lotta fockin' bullshit. Hear me! Dere is no truth but de one truth, an' that is de truth of Jah Rastafari." -- Sir Robert Marley, 1978 ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 08:22:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Parabolic cooker? (Paraoblic Weapons System!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I said: >> My "two cents" may well be common knowledge to a person >> with your background, but are you fully prepared to only >> approach this beastie dressed like a welder, complete >> with goggles, asbestos gloves, and a very liberal >> life insurance policy? and Harmon Seaver (hseaver@zebra.net) replied: > That's a bit of an overstatement.=20 Not at all. I will go further: THESE SUCKERS ARE=20 BAD NEWS FOR THE UNWARY. PARABOLIC REFLECTORS ON A SUNNY DAY ARE NON-TOXIC "NUCLEAR REACTORS"!! >>>>>> You Have Been Warned!!! <<<<<< The above is ONLY an overstatement if one uses: a) A poorly designed parabolic dish b) A deliberately-selected poor reflector c) A less than fully populated reflector area d) A dish of very small size e) A tracking method that does not keep the dish "on focus", " dead center on sun". >People do use parabolic reflectors for cooking all the time.=20 Am I correct that these meet the criteria above? My experience was with a 2 meter diameter dish with a full complement of reflective surface, so I assume=20 that most would not have such a large beastie in=20 their yards just to cook. In fact, a decent parabolic that avoids the restrictions listed above would not "cook" but instead, VAPORIZE dinner. (Talk about "nuking" the roast!!!!) If you do the math, you can see the ratio of dish surface area to focal area, and work out the amount of heat you can get in full sun. =20 Steam pressure is NOT that difficult to get with a=20 parabolic, as was proven by multiple folks who proved the dangerous side of parabolics (listed=20 below in historical order): [This is the cross-index to the oldest mouldy=20 documents the Information Supercollider=AE=20 knows exist on the subject, just to prove=20 that it does not take a NASA/DOD/DOE project=20 to make a DANGEROUS toy with focused mirrors=20 and/or parabolics... most of the commentary=20 is mine, since I did the leg-work myself.] Archimedes was supposed to have used "burning mirrors to destroy invading Roman ships at=20 Syracuse in 212 BC, but no mention is made of=20 parabolic mirrors per se. None of the credible historians of the time (Polybius, Livy, Plutarch...)=20 back up this story/myth, but even with flat mirrors,=20 a parabolic array of people holding flat mirrors MIGHT have done the job. =20 =20 Dositheius, a 2nd Century BC Greek, wrote "On the Burning Mirrors", which was the first formal=20 (geometric) proof of the focal properties of=20 parabolic mirrors. Note the title. He had no trouble seeing that what he had was high-temperature stuff. =20 The Chou Li (20 AD or so) a Chinese book of religious ceremony states clearly "The directors of Sun Fire have the (duty) of receiving, with a concave mirror, brilliant fire from the Sun... to prepare torches..." =20 Roger Bacon (13th Century) was another "parabolic as weapons system" advocate, and was one of the first to attempt to start an arms race by claiming that the arabs HAD such weapons. (The crusades were on at the time, you see...) In fact, he had read the work of Ibn Al-Haitham (11th Cent), who had also done formal geometric proofs of the focusing powers of parabolics. The Arabs had no such weapon system, and Bacon did not get funding approved, but his math was correct. =20 DaVinci (16th Cent) wrote his misleadingly titled folios "Perspective", which (ahem) "focus" on parabolics. Why he wanted to build a 4 mile diameter parabolic mirror=20 is unclear, but this is what competent translators/scholars say he wrote. Maybe he was off by a few factor of ten in his math? Happens to the best of us. Regardless, he knew it could burn, kill, and demoralize armys of the time, who had a habit of not spreading out into skirmish lines, but "massed" their ranks in convenient "heat and serve" = =20 clusters of men and horses. He had more morals than Bacon, and spent most of his effort (ahem) reflecting on the peaceful uses of such devices. In the late 1600s an optician from Lyons named Villette built and sold large spherical mirrors. These were described by the press as able to "melt tin in=20 3 seconds and melt cast iron in 16 seconds". Peter Hoesen (18th Cent) figured out how to build sectional "burning mirrors", which got the state of the art up to 5 feet wide. He used brass sheets. He was Desden's royal carpenter, so this was another military contract. Once again, independent parties wrote of the power of these dishes "... the hardest stones resist the force of heat for only a few seconds... the bones of animals become calcined... copper melted in one second... lead melted in the blink of an eye... slate became a glassy black material in 12 seconds...". Augstin Mouchot at the Universal Exposition in Paris (1878) demoed a steam engine driven by a solar parabolic. Big things. Overkill design, to insure that he could get up a head of steam on even a cloudy day. John Ericsson (1868, USA) did the same thing as Mouchot, and spent his life working on various solar-powered=20 steam engines. Many boilers exploded. ...and so on, and so on. =20 >Check out the solarcooking-l list.=20 Check out my list above! I stand firm in my warnings, since my personal experience is backed by many famous folks who got the same results even WITHOUT calculators, computers, CAD systems, front-surface mirrors, reflective mylar, or any of the other modern tools and toys available to us today. >People in 3rd world countrys are even forming them out of mud and dung, >then coating the surface with reflective stuff.=20 Am I correct in assuming that their tracking systems are manual? Water-powered? Pendulum clock drive? Once again, these devices can be assumed to have=20 built-in "defects" that keep them "safer" than a dish designed (perhaps in error) to do a "better" job by an unwary designer/tinkerer. >And you can buy commercial models. I think that even commercial solar "cookers" can be ruled out as potential heating/cooling sources for dwellings, just as a Jenn-Aire would not be considered an adequate heat source for a house... :) From amoebas to elephants, we're all just basic elements. Everyone is just compost in the end. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:21:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jill Fox Subject: Problem Poster. Comments: cc: AHechter@aol.com, webadmin@ucla.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello, Thanks for bringing this matter to our attention. We take any type of internet abuse very seriously. We have identified the account being used and have cancelled it. If you have any further problems with this person please let me know immediately. Jill Fox OAC Consulting ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Due to the high volume of E-mail to which I respond, please leave | | the previous message in your reply so I can better remember the | | original problem. Thank you. | ------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 14:06:12 +0000 From: UCLA Web Administrator To: Jill Fox Subject: (no subject) Here is another: > Subject: > Fwd: Gavin Schutte - Misuse of UCLA Computer Resources > Date: > Sun, 4 May 1997 15:12:47 -0400 (EDT) > From: > AHechter@aol.com > To: > rnapels@saonet.edu.asst.vice-chancelloranddeanofstudents (robertnaples) > CC: > postmaster@rho.ben2.ucla.edu, GEODESIC@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu, > webmaster@ucla.edu (webadministration) > > > Dear Sir, > > One of your students(?) and network account users, gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin > Schuette), or someone using his account, has been polluting our List with all > manner of irrelevancy, most of which is explictly sexual in nature. (There > were 14 posting made by this individual yesterday alone; ) > > The List in question is one devoted to the discussion and exploration of the > works of Buckminster Fuller. I do not believe that UCLA sanctions this > particular use of it's computer resources, and request that this person's > access to our list be curtailed. > > The offending messages can only be described as deliberate disruption, given > the nature of the communication that has to date transpired between the above > user and the participants of this list. Your cooperation in this matter is > requested and a response to: > GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > (List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works) > > will notify all participants on the list, who will doubtless by now be > e-mailing you!. > > Sincerely, > > April Hechter > --------------------- > Forwarded message: > Subj: Re: Gavin Schutte - Misuse of UCLA Computer Resources > Date: 97-05-04 14:30:49 EDT > From: AHechter > To: postmaster@rho.ben2.ucla.edu > CC: GEODESIC@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu > CC: > rrnapels@saonet.edu(robertnaples)asst.vice-chancelloranddeanofstudents. > CC: cporter@saonet.ucla.edu(caryporter)assoc.deanofstudents) > CC: cchapman@ucpd.ucla.edu(clarencer.chapman)chiefofpolice) > CC: webmaster@ucla.edu(webadministration) > > Dear Sir, > > One of your account users, gav@UCLA.EDU (Gavin Schuette), or someone using > his account, has been polluting our List with all manner of irrelevancy, most > of which is explictly sexual in nature. (There were 14 posting made by this > individual yesterday alone, which I am forwarding to you). > > The List in question is one devoted to the discussion and exploration of the > works of Buckminster Fuller. I do not believe that UCLA sanctions this > particular use of it's resources, and request that this person's access to > our list be curtailed. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:55:03 -0700 Reply-To: carl@primenet.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Carl Rhoades Subject: Re: Parabolic cooker? (Paraoblic Weapons System!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks everyone for the feedback. Yes I am very much aware of the very formidable dangers of "near optimum" parabolic reflectors, I mentioned it initially because it was a very interesting and simple "mechanical design" solution to an otherwise semi complex construction project >>Simple is almost always better<< however I agree with your analysis, this is an extremely dangerous device even if handled correctly. In the original design about 20 of these 4ft mirrors were arranged on a parabolic framework which was mounted on a computer controlled heliostate and was used for extremely high temp metallurgy experiments (Translate, vaporize high temp refractory metals at near Solar temperatures) The parabolic geodesic arrangement was interesting from the standpoint that it could be structurally ridged and at the same time have some of the mentioned safeguards (reflective flat soft focus panels vs continuously curved, sharp focus parabola) But you are also correct, in that probably the most effective means of useful temperature range solar heating is a parabolic trough circulating high temp oil (to avoid boiling and the associated high pressures) flat panels also work very well in some areas Cooling is indeed the major problem here in Phoenix (the valley of the sun) I have done some study on ammonia cycle machines but would love hear of some more good references or commercial sources Thanks, Carl Rhoades ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:12:17 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: loretta lorance Subject: Re: Action MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sorry to unintentionally ruffle any feathers. I sent my message before wading through the listings. It was a very good idea to notify his server. Loretta >While evidence supports your conclusion, other evidence indicates that Gavin >just doesn't know how to use his email commands, or at least doesn't know how to >use them very well. I'm sure that if he knows what he's doing, he'll eventually >get tired of doing it... and go elsewhere and do it some more. For both these >reasons, I've written to his postmaster. My message, which you quoted, was >entirely serious, not an attempt to "bait" him. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:26:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harmon Seaver Organization: Maddog Press Subject: Re: Parabolic cooker? (Paraoblic Weapons System!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > > I said: > > >> My "two cents" may well be common knowledge to a person > >> with your background, but are you fully prepared to only > >> approach this beastie dressed like a welder, complete > >> with goggles, asbestos gloves, and a very liberal > >> life insurance policy? > > and Harmon Seaver (hseaver@zebra.net) replied: > > > That's a bit of an overstatement. > > Not at all. I will go further: THESE SUCKERS ARE > BAD NEWS FOR THE UNWARY. PARABOLIC REFLECTORS ON > A SUNNY DAY ARE NON-TOXIC "NUCLEAR REACTORS"!! > >>>>>> You Have Been Warned!!! <<<<<< > Yes, still an overstatement. But then -- some people are afraid of fireworks, guns, motorcycles -- or even walking thru the woods at night. A propane torch cylinder (14oz or so) contains enough power to wipe out your house -- the gas tank on your car contains enough to wipe out your block. So what? But then, I guess I don't bother putting on gloves and mask when running a oxy/acetyline torch either. And I think hydrogen-filled blimps are a great idea -- I'd live in one in an instant if I could afford the envelope. -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net hseaver@jaguar1.usouthal.edu ======================================================================= "Facts an' facts, an' t'ings an' t'ings: dem's all a lotta fockin' bullshit. Hear me! Dere is no truth but de one truth, an' that is de truth of Jah Rastafari." -- Sir Robert Marley, 1978 ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:15:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: links ABUNDANCE ECONOMICS Comments: To: SunCat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the references--I'll be adding them ASAP. What typo were you referring to? I can't seem to find it. Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: SunCat > To: joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > Subject: LinksA ABUNDANCE ECONOMICS > Date: Sunday, April 27, 1997 9:44 AM > > Joe > The page is entitled "LinksA ABUNDANCE ECONOMICS". I think you want to > correct the typo. Also see > > > The Post-Scarcity Economics/Culture of Abundance Reading List > http://www.pa.msu.edu/people/mulhall/mist/PSE-COA.html > > Best Regards > > SunCat > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 02:23:11 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Barry Meltzer Organization: Netcom Subject: Company Comparison Is anyone aware of an independent comparison of Oregon Domes, Timberline Geodesics and Natural Spaces Domes as companies and their approaches to dome building? Also, does anyone have any personal experience either positive or negative with these companies and their approaches? Any help you could give would be appreciated. Thanks, Barry bmeltz@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:37:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harald Wolf Organization: Allegra Management Subject: Bucky's cow II (This is a repost - since I didn't receive a single reply 6 mos ago) C'mon, guys - someone must know this! Back in the 70's, when I became a Bucky fan, I remember coming across a thoroughly hilarious description of a cow -- very definitely in the words of Bucky the Engineer. I've tried to find this piece recently (it's just over a page long, at the start of a chapter), but I don't know which book, or chapter! Can anyone help? TIA - Harald ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:00:09 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harald Wolf Organization: Allegra Management Subject: Electronic Fuller? Hi guys! There's been talk in the past of a Bucky CD-ROM. Has this happened? Or, more generally, have his works been published electronically anywhere? Any pointers appreciated! Cheers - Harald ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:28:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Bucky's cow II MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've studied Bucky since 1970 and I can't remember any description of his of a cow. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Harald Wolf > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Bucky's cow II > Date: Wednesday, May 07, 1997 12:37 AM > > (This is a repost - since I didn't receive a single reply 6 mos ago) > > C'mon, guys - someone must know this! > > Back in the 70's, when I became a Bucky fan, I remember coming across a > thoroughly hilarious description of a cow -- very definitely in the words > of Bucky the Engineer. I've tried to find this piece recently (it's just > over a page long, at the start of a chapter), but I don't know which book, > or chapter! > > Can anyone help? > > TIA - Harald > .- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:26:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Company Comparison Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't recommend any company that makes their domes out of materials that can BURN, ROT or be EATEN by bugs! **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Barry Meltzer > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Company Comparison > Date: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 7:23 PM > > Is anyone aware of an independent comparison of Oregon Domes, Timberline > Geodesics and Natural > Spaces Domes as companies and their approaches to dome building? > > Also, does anyone have any personal experience either positive or negative with > these companies and > their approaches? > > Any help you could give would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Barry > bmeltz@ix.netcom.com > .- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:29:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Electronic Fuller? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only one that comes close is New Civ's. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Harald Wolf > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Electronic Fuller? > Date: Wednesday, May 07, 1997 1:00 AM > > Hi guys! > > There's been talk in the past of a Bucky CD-ROM. Has this happened? > > Or, more generally, have his works been published electronically anywhere? > > Any pointers appreciated! > > Cheers - Harald > .- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 22:00:27 -0700 Reply-To: jhuston@peganet.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jim Huston Organization: Pegasus Software & Imaging Subject: Re: Parabolic cooker? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Kirby. > > I was just browsing through some old postings from 4/4/97 and was > facinated by your discription of a dome with modified panel sizes to > make it approximate a parabola ... On memory from long ago... I was reading about a method used to construct an inexpensive large parabolic mirror for a telescope. Mount a motor vertically and affix the bottom center of a circular pan having a low wall, similar to a pie pan with vertical sidewall, on the shaft of the motor. While it is spinning at a very slow speed mix and pour in some "medium rate cure" epoxy. Slowly adjust the rotation speed of the pan till the center of the epoxy is almost touching the bottom center of the pan and the epoxy climbs the wall. Let it continue to spin at a constant rate till the epoxy hardens. The result is a round parabolic dish. Sand and polish smooth and apply a reflective coating. You will need a rheostat to adjust the motor speed. The original project was for a reflecting telescope and there were many issuse of accuracy down to the quality of the bearings in the motor and the vibrations in the motion which would cause an uneven image. In the solar collection application this should not be as critical. If anyone builds a dish with this method I would appreciate hearing about it... It's one of those "one day when I have the time..." projects I never got to... Jim Huston ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:39:38 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: Company Comparison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, Its too bad that these things happen so rarely that they are a non-issue. Why pay the price for concrete that has a tendency to leak, crack, and sweat, or steel, that has an inferior strength to weight ratio and will probably require several thousand dollars in engineering and will be super expensive to finish? Wood gives you all the flexibility as well as some durability that these systems don't. Joe S. Moore wrote: > > I can't recommend any company that makes their domes out of materials that > can BURN, ROT or be EATEN by bugs! > > **************************************** > * Joe S. Moore > * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar > * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute > * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > **************************************** > > ---------- > > From: Barry Meltzer > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Company Comparison > > Date: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 7:23 PM > > > > Is anyone aware of an independent comparison of Oregon Domes, Timberline > > Geodesics and Natural > > Spaces Domes as companies and their approaches to dome building? > > > > Also, does anyone have any personal experience either positive or > negative with > > these companies and > > their approaches? > > > > Any help you could give would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Barry > > bmeltz@ix.netcom.com > > .- -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:46:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: GEODESIC LIST STATS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From NIC: bit.listserv.geodesic ------------------------------------------------------------------------ List for the Discussion of Buckminster Fuller. Gatewayed to geodesic@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu. Readers: 7900 (0.1%) Mesgs per month/day: 292/10 Crossposting: 0% Megs per month/day: 0.9/0.030 Sites receiving this Group: 38% Cost ratio ($US/month/rdr): 0.05 http://sunsite.unc.edu/usenet-i/groups-html/bit.listserv.geodesic.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:17:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: ll Subject: Re: Bucky Quote Comments: To: "Joe S. Moore" Comments: cc: John Warren Dear John, I think you're looking for this. >From "Fuller's Earth" by Richard Brenneman Bucky was asked by Benjamin: "How would you suggest solving international problems without violence?" Bucky: "I always try to solve problems by some artifact, some tool or invention that makes what people are doing obsolete, so that it makes this particular kind of problem no longer relevant. My answer would be to develop a world energy grid, an electric energy grid where everybody is on the same grid. All of a sudden there would be no problems any more, no international troubles. Our new economic basis wouldn't be gold or dollars; it would be kilowatt hours."> John, this is exactly there reason for the GENI Computer Model! Peter Meisen GENI END John, > >Unfortunately, most of Bucky's writings have not been indexed, and so it >is hard to pin down what he said when. I'm forwarding your question to >the GEODESIC list in the hope that someone there may know the answer. > >Sincerely, > >Joe > >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** > >---------- >> From: John L Warren >> To: joemoore@cruzio.com >> Subject: Bucky Quote >> Date: Friday, April 11, 1997 4:01 PM >> >> Joe >> >> Doug Holmes suggested you might know when and where Bucky said the >following, or >> something like this: >> >> Do not teach a man a new way to think, rather give him a tool, the use >of which >> changes the way he thinks. >> >> >> >> Appreciate any help or suggestions. >> >> John Warren >> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> John L. Warren, Senior Program Manager, Battelle >> Work: P.O. Box 999, 3230 Q Street, Richland, WA 99352 >> Home: 1940 Thayer Drive, Richland, WA 99352 509-943-0412 >> 509-372-4759 Fax: 509-372-6273 Email: jl_warren@pnl.gov >> Web sites: http://www.estd.battelle.org http://www.pnl.gov >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> "This time like all times is a very good one,if we but know >> what to do with it." Ralph Waldo Emerson >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> .- > > GLOBAL ENERGY NETWORK INTERNATIONAL Peter Meisen P.O.Box 81565 San Diego, CA 92138 (619) 595-0139 FAX: (619) 595-0403 Visit the GENI World Wide Web Home Page: http://www.geni.org/ Email: Internet: geni@cerf.net Compuserve: 75543.520@compuserve.com GENI is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation conducting education and research into the interconnection of renewable energy resources around the world. This was proposed as the highest priority objective from the World Game of 20th century visionary, Dr. R Buckminster Fuller. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:22:43 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Parabolic cooker? (Paraoblic Weapons System!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harmon Seaver wrote: >James Fischer wrote: ... >> Not at all. I will go further: THESE SUCKERS ARE >> BAD NEWS FOR THE UNWARY. PARABOLIC REFLECTORS ON >> A SUNNY DAY ARE NON-TOXIC "NUCLEAR REACTORS"!! >> >>>>>> You Have Been Warned!!! <<<<<< >> > > > Yes, still an overstatement. But then -- some people are afraid of >fireworks, guns, motorcycles -- or even walking thru the woods at night. >A propane torch cylinder (14oz or so) contains enough power to wipe out >your house -- the gas tank on your car contains enough to wipe out your >block. So what? Note that my post was probably about Doug Wood, founder of Solar Steam, Inc. My friend Andrew Frank and I visited the man many years ago and saw the prototypes on his property. The day was overcast so we only looked at his photo album (and slides, as I recall) of actual operations. These parabolic-slash-geodesic dishes were very large and designed to achieve extremely high temperatures which, as James notes, would not be suitable for cooking food. Doug's focus was steam generation, with an eye towards feeding a generator or other process where pressurized steam might be useful. The coil of metal tubing he placed at the focus of his dish (and through which he would pump water) would indeed get white hot. Fortunately, the dish was high off the ground when pointed at the sun and passers by would not have any easy way to get themselves burned. I'm not claiming parabolas aren't good for cooking when used safely, just that James has a point about the severe temperatures attainable and in the case I was discussing, such extremes temperatures were also desirable. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:33:07 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Bucky's cow II Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Harald Wolf" wrote: >(This is a repost - since I didn't receive a single reply 6 mos ago) > >C'mon, guys - someone must know this! > >Back in the 70's, when I became a Bucky fan, I remember coming across a >thoroughly hilarious description of a cow -- very definitely in the words >of Bucky the Engineer. I've tried to find this piece recently (it's just >over a page long, at the start of a chapter), but I don't know which book, >or chapter! > >Can anyone help? > >TIA - Harald I know this isn't the passage you're after, but I throw it in because I went to the trouble to lookup 'cow' in the Synergetics Dictionary: "I remember when I was young, specialization was not quite as prevalent as it is today but older people kept asking you, 'What do you want to bewhen you grow up? Do you want to be a policeman or a fireman?' and so forth.... At one time I was asked that and don't actually recall it very clearly but I was reminded by the family telling it over and over again. When I was asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said I would like to be a cow. I recall the people asking me why I wanted to be a cow. And I said, 'All this beautiful green grass...' the idea of being allowed to be out in that green grass with the flowers and so forth, and go around eating. I loved the grass. It seemed to me a beautiful preoccupation. However, this is the sort of answer that children give that is so powerful." Synergetics Dictionary, Vol. 2, pg. 398, card #1 I seem to dimly recall some description of a cow in Fullerese. Possibly it was a parody -- Fuller's language gets parodied here and there. More famous is his description of the human 'biped' with its 'swiveling turret' or whatever. But there may be a similar passage re this quadruped on file. Sorry I couldn't be more help. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:08:31 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Electronic Fuller? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Harald Wolf" wrote: >Hi guys! > >There's been talk in the past of a Bucky CD-ROM. Has this happened? > >Or, more generally, have his works been published electronically anywhere? > >Any pointers appreciated! > >Cheers - Harald Much brainstorming around CDROMs has occurred (changing to brainstorming around DVD as the technology advances). The internet is a disincentive in some ways: we already have lots of movies, software, graphics going, free of charge, in the public domain. Seems adequate in a lot of ways. Of course you can always scan in any text you own for personal use if so inclined. I've got Critical Path and Grunch of Giants on disk, but haven't gotten around to Synergetics yet. Just doing Synergetics as a standalone wouldn't address any of the accessibility issues (other than the fact that Synergetics is out of print and increasingly hard to find, especially volume 2). But with all the subsequent work and multi-authoring going on, that would seem a lower priority than getting something aimed at, say, at the K-12 curriculum audience. The books are still mostly available and just scanning them seems a capitulation, a throwing in the towel saying we've got nothing better to do than recycle what's already been cycled. In my book, that'd be too depressingly like going to that Fairmont Hotel across from St. Dominic Academy in Jersey City where I used to teach. The Fairmont was then still run by Father Divine's followers. Father Divine was an amazing historical figure, a short black guy who wrote all this flowing metaphysics about 'tangibilated universe' and who set up all these operations to help folks. But the 'newspaper' that came out frequently was mostly reprints of his writings, from the 1950s say. So I'd sit eating an excellent breakfast (on break between classes) reading all this Father Divine stuff, which was indeed interesting, but which added to the sense that time had stopped long ago in this Fairmont Hotel reality, everything frozen to when Father Divine was still alive. Kinda spooky. Nowadays I wonder if the Buckminster Fuller Institute (BFI) is moving in that direction. But given BFI's web presence and the fact that cyberspace is moving ahead with new realities, laced with Bucky's thinking and Synergetics, but not simply with recyclings thereof, I have more hope. A primary source of page hits to my Synergetics on the Web is from the Orbit magazine site, for example.[1] This source of browser traffic suggests younger folks are tuning in, born in the 70s and later. The Orbit site invests in Fuller pretty heavily, but gives its own spin and character to it (Robert Anton Wilson also a big influence). This is a promising sign, that people are doing their own thinking, exploring material that is still somewhat obscure, and running with it. I'd say J. Baldwin's stuff is another good example: BuckyWorks (his recent book) is more than recycling, it's a challenge to keep working hard on our dreams, to roll up our sleeves and get the job done. The Architecture New York (ANY) issue (#17) was likewise inspiring, for similar reasons, though I should emphasize that in both these readings the historical focus and awareness is very muchincluded. We're not talking about forgetting the past (on the contrary), just recalling own our personal responsibility, as the currently living, to create the present. [1] Note ~prime8 URLs as major source of hits (section 2): Hit analysis report for: Synergetics on the Web http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html Compiled 05/07/97 09:47:13 AM Hits from: 04/06/96 09:29:43 AM to 05/06/97 11:21:51 PM Total hits to synhome.html: 22542 Breakout by top-level domain Ext Description Hits ----------------------------------------------------- ae United Arab Emirates 3 ar Argentine Republic 2 arpa Advanced Projects Research Agency 3 at Austria 52 au Australia 354 be Belgium 38 bg Bulgaria 2 bm Bermuda 1 br Brazil 108 ca Canada 658 ch Switzerland 39 cl Chile 6 co Colombia 30 com Commercial 6432 cr Costa Rica 3 cz Czech Republic 9 de Federal Republic of Germany 217 dk Denmark 16 do Dominican Republic 2 ec Ecuador 2 edu Education 2520 ee Estonia 12 es Spain 23 fi Finland 35 fr France 76 gb Great Britain 1 gov Government 231 gr Greece 9 hk Hong Kong (Hisiangkang, Xianggang) 5 hr Croatia / Hrvatska 24 hu Hungary 6 id Indonesia 4 ie Ireland 40 il Israel 39 in India 7 is Iceland 11 it Italian Republic 57 jp Japan 372 kr Korea 22 kz Kazakhstan 1 lt Lithuania 4 lu Grand Duchy of Luxembourg 2 mil Military 77 mx United Mexican States 46 my Malaysia 55 net Network 4222 nl Netherlands 116 no Norway 63 nz New Zealand 89 org Organization 383 pe Peru 4 ph Philippines 8 pl Poland 15 pt Portuguese Republic 13 ro Romainia 3 ru Russian Federation 25 se Sweden 117 sg Singapore 63 si Slovenia 14 sk Slovakia 5 su Union of Soviet Socialist Republics 11 th Thailand 12 tr Turkey 6 tw Taiwan 2 ua Ukraine 6 uk United Kingdom of Great Britain 340 us United States of America 330 uy Uruguay 9 ve Venezuela 4 za South Africa 28 Notes: * Tallies page requests by computer -- individual user IDs not captured by the server. * Multiple hits by the same computer get counted. * Many hits not counted in breakout which tallies only on a predefined set of domain extensions * Hits by site maintainer filtered out Top 10 source referring pages Hits Referring page ----------------------------------- 1054 http://www.yahoo.com/Science/Mathematics/Geometry/Synergetics/ 875 http://www.critpath.org/bfi/ 638 http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/mathhist/fuller.html 594 http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/Orbit/Bucky/ 530 http://www.lsi.usp.br/usp/rod/bucky/buckminster_fuller.html 433 http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ 388 http://www.pbs.org/wnet/bucky/syner.html 341 http://www.wnet.org/bucky/syner.html 318 http://www.tcp.com/~prime8/raw/links.html 318 http://www.newciv.org/worldtrans/whole/bucky.html Report code by K. Urner using MSFT VFP ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:48:36 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: AstroBoy Subject: Domes in Europe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi list, I've only joined the list about two weeks ago, and i've been lurking a bit since then, but now, i have a question: First of all, is anybody on this list actually in Europe, or are you all in the US? And secondly, i'm not going to build a house until within10 years or so, but nevertheless i'd like to know if there are any European-based companies who offer the same kind of domes and service like Oregon Domes, for example, or if US-based companies of this type have branches in Europe? And my third question: I've recieved a brochure from Oregon Domes, and it was very interesting, but... do these domes conform to European building standards, in other words, can i build one legally in Europe without being in danger of getting in trouble with building councils, fire brigades, etc. ? --- Toon "AstroBoy" Van de Putte (Dutch-speaking), vdputte@innet.be kat design Flanders Belgium EU Walhalla by kat design: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 FUO homepage (under construction): http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9656 'Do not teach a man a new way to think, rather give him a tool, the use of which changes the way he thinks.' - Buckminster Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:06:43 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Al McMahon Subject: Re: Action again In-Reply-To: <199705060713.TAA01613@fep1-orange.clear.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 07:06 AM 5/7/97 +1200, you wrote: > Alas, poor Gavin! We knew him, Horatio: a fellow of infinite jest, of most >excellent fancy=85. (with apologies to William Shakespeare) > >Your idea sounds good in theory - but won't it be hard (near impossible) >given that list members are spread all over the world? Or did you see >people getting involved in short bursts (longish holidays etc)? > >One the projects have been built what would you have done with them? Are >they for participants to buy, live in, donate to the homeless? > > > Well that's what I wanted to talk about. I see a business or cooperative established to get the location. I see a brainstorm session to find the purpose. I see it as a vaction/ sabatical/ retreat/ reset/ location. =20 As with many organizations we would establish a goal/ bi-laws/ and flexability to change them as the universe unfolds. I see a starting point as a place to bridge concept with creation. Building a small dome and learning to wire it for electricity would provide great experience and allow that person to be a focal point to others when they return to where ever they live. =20 I for one want a place to learn how to live low impact. Not just plan it but learn the blocks that occur when you build. It can be designed with many facets/ non profit/ profit/ school/ testing ground for industries/ etc. . . If something exists that is similiar then I don't see a need to reinvent the wheel but as of yet I see no practical procedure to channel people with interest into an environment where they can learn about these topics on a hands on approach. I would imagine that this is not just a location but that there would be a procedure to funnel people interested into spending time there. Learn and contribute then stay and teach or leave and take the know how back to the masses. There you show by doing. I have found from my experiences that doing is the best way to show and that if you shine others will come. In this case we need a medium to show. Houseing and the savings in emotional strife and money will also serve as an attraction. Hey, I will learn this but I feel that if I have to trail blaze then I should mark it for others and in this age with access to people like the ones on this list (uhh maybe not Gavin) that we could focus part of our energy into manifesting a physical location. =20 If we build it=20 it will grow. I imagine we would start by brainstorming things such as: Location Costs Goals Bi-laws Structure (cooperative/company/limited liability partnership, ect. . .) Others we can utilize (groups/individuals/schools/companies, ect. . .) Ask what you yourself would like to get out of a location and list it. It may not be the stated goal of the organization but may allow you to achieve your goal. I will work on what my goals are an list them too. Any interest? Al McMahon Endeavor to Perservere..... =09 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:57:19 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Action again Al McMahon writes: > Any interest? It's an ambitious proposal, given only that geographical location (and the fact that we don't have a common one) must be overcome. It also sounds a lot like what I was planning to do, solo, up in the Kentucky woods. It sounds a lot like what most of us on this list are doing, on a solo level... that is, share what we've variously learned about the process. I like your idea about combining our efforts in order to gain a synergetic dividend. But I don't know what I can contribute, given the LACK of money and time I can devote to travel <-- just ONE of the apparent requirements I don't know what to tell you except that you're probably going to have to expend quite a bit more energy and effort to get some kind of ball rolling, and once people see you have some momentum, they will start adding to it. Which sounds real not helpful, huh? What's your starting point? Researching land prices? How mutually exclusive are these two: 1. Finding out where the cheapest land is... 2. Figuring out WHERE the land is that you want to live on. For me, the latter takes priority. I KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I want to live in Kentucky. Luckily for me, the global real estate market takes no economic interest in it whatever. Some friends and I started talking about this over 15 years ago... creating a "retreat"; at the time, the idea was to be an artists' retreat, "artist" having a necessarily loose definition. And, I'm sure that's what we'll end up with, because I want to retreat there, and I'm an artist :-) ...and most of my friends are artists, and I want them to come visit me as often as possible, and stay as long as they can. For what it's worth, I like your idea, and I'd like to contribute to it... but I'm pedalling pretty fast to keep up with my own ambitions. (I'm hip that, with more people pedalling together, no one has to pedal quite as hard...) Maybe your first move is to set up a central location for data-gathering about the resources you've already named? Then, maybe more of us can be convinced that the project is doable. And I'll keep re-reading your previous posts, to find things that I'm missing in them. jmr ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:12:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Action again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If a person had access to a self-contained, portable shelter, then one could live anywhere--desert, uninhabited island, mountains, etc. This, to me, would seem to be a first priority. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: J. Michael Rowland > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Action again > Date: Wednesday, May 07, 1997 6:57 PM > > Al McMahon writes: > > Any interest? > > It's an ambitious proposal, given only that geographical location (and the fact > that we don't have a common one) must be overcome. > (snip) > > What's your starting point? Researching land prices? > How mutually exclusive are these two: > 1. Finding out where the cheapest land is... > 2. Figuring out WHERE the land is that you want to live on. > (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:36:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: YOUR GEODESIC DOMES PAPER Comments: cc: "J.W.Rich@XTRA.CO.NZ" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5BAE.6B37FE00" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5BAE.6B37FE00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, When was your book 'Timber Geodesic Domes' published? Is it available for sale? See the "Selected Ideas/Icosas/Huge" section of my web pages (below) for references to covered cities, cloud cities, etc. Also, I'm including several graphics from your paper just to see how they look in the new multimedia email: 12m 3v superellipsoidal icosahedron (with clerestorey) 3v super ellipsoidal icosahedron Elevation of a 10v superellipsoidal icosahedron Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5BAE.6B37FE00-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:11:12 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: Domes in Europe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We just raised our first dome in Germany this last year. The only problem that was encountered was getting the dome through customs, where we were short on paperwork when the kit first arrived. Getting the plans approved went pretty smoothly (we have been contending with so many different building codes in the US that we have built up a pretty good network of engineers who can review our structure for just about any area). We have also built domes in Japan, Canada and the Carribean, and are working on projects elsewhere throughout the world. Our experience with building codes around the world has been generally positive, perhaps because we regularly build in some of the most regulated states in the US (Oregon, Washington, and California). The gentleman in Germany who built has started to represent our products in Northern Germany. Perhaps when you are closer to building we can set up a meeting with him for you so that you can take advantage of his experience. AstroBoy wrote: > > Hi list, > > I've only joined the list about two weeks ago, and i've been lurking a bit > since then, but now, i have a question: > > First of all, is anybody on this list actually in Europe, or are you all in > the US? > And secondly, i'm not going to build a house until within10 years or so, but > nevertheless i'd like to know if there are any European-based companies who > offer the same kind of domes and service like Oregon Domes, for example, or > if US-based companies of this type have branches in Europe? > And my third question: I've recieved a brochure from Oregon Domes, and it > was very interesting, but... do these domes conform to European building > standards, in other words, can i build one legally in Europe without being > in danger of getting in trouble with building councils, fire brigades, etc. ? > > --- > Toon "AstroBoy" Van de Putte (Dutch-speaking), vdputte@innet.be > kat design > Flanders > Belgium > EU > > Walhalla by kat design: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 > FUO homepage (under construction): http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9656 > > 'Do not teach a man a new way to think, rather give him a tool, the use of > which changes the way he thinks.' - Buckminster Fuller -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:08:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: NATIONAL INVENTORS HALL OF FAME Comments: To: DOMES _LIST , SYNERGETICS _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINATION FORM FOR THE NATIONAL INVENTORS HALL OF FAME 1. THE INVENTOR The term "inventor" may include more than one person where the invention was made by co-inventors. Named co-inventors on the principal patent for which the inventor is being nominated must be included as co-nominees. NOMINATED LIVING INVENTOR:___________________________________________ Year of Birth (if known)_________________________ Where may the inventor be reached?__________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________ __ NOMINATED DECEASED INVENTOR:________________________________________ Year of Birth (if Known)_______________ Year of Death (If Known)_____________ Who would represent the inventor at the induction ceremony? (if known) (Next of kin, relative, or prior employer)_____________________________________ Where may such representative be reached?____________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________ ___ 2. THE INVENTION The term "invention" may include more than one invention if together they more accurately describe the major impact of a development or discovery. Identify the invention forming the basis of the nomination:____________________ __________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___ 3. THE PATENT Note: A United States Patent is a prerequisite for selection of a nominee for induction into the National Inventors Hall of Fame. The term "patent" may include more than one patent if together they more accurately describe the major impact of the invention. List the number(s) of the United States Patent(s) which form(s) the basis for this nomination. Copies of patents or abstracts are requested though not required. ________________________________ _________________________________ ________________________________ _________________________________ ________________________________ _________________________________ Identify any known litigation, interference, or other proceeding that involves the foregoing invention or patent: __________________________________________________________________________ ___ 4. THE NOMINATOR The term "nominator" may include more than one nominator. Name of nominator(s)_______________________________________________________ Where may the nominator be reached?_________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________ ___ Date of submission of this nomination:________________________________________ Signature of nominator(s) ____________________________________ ________________________________ ____________________________________ ________________________________ Nominations must be post marked or received prior to midnight on October 1 to be considered for induction during the year after the deadline. Nominations received after the deadline will be considered during the following nomination year. PLEASE FORWARD THE COMPLETED NOMINATION TO: Vice President for Selection The National Inventors Hall of Fame Foundation, Inc. P.O.Box 1553 Akron, Ohio 44309-1553 5. THE STATEMENT Please provide with this nomination, a single-spaced statement confined to one 8.5" x 11" sheet, covering the inventor and his/her invention, with particular emphasis to the effect of the invention on the public welfare and the advancement of the useful arts in the United States. This statement will be reproduced for the Selection Committee. It will be the only material given to the Selection Committee for its deliberations. __________________________________________________________________________ ___ Additional materials may be attached to this nomination for use in the event that the nominee is selected. These materials will not be submitted to the Selection Committee nor returned to the nominator. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ (For the official paper version of the nomination brochure and form contact:) Tom Hollingsworth Inventure Place/ National Inventors Hall of Fame tholling@invent.org http://www.invent.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:23:59 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: YOUR GEODESIC DOMES PAPER Comments: To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, Thanks for the reply. It would be great if both your book and your paper were available on your own web pages. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: John William Rich > To: Joe S. Moore > Subject: Re: YOUR GEODESIC DOMES PAPER > Date: Friday, May 09, 1997 8:45 AM > > Joe S. Moore wrote: > Hi Jo, > > When was your book 'Timber Geodesic Domes' published? Is it available for sale? > It was published in 1982 - my 21yr old student son has my only copy, so > I'm unable to look it up. I am thinking of three things- scan the book > for web distribution, re-publish it, publish a new book which > incorporates it but brings things up to date. The U.S.Library of > Congress has a copy, I believe. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 00:43:47 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Al McMahon Subject: Re: Action again In-Reply-To: <199705081616.JAA13010@cruzio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:12 AM 5/8/97 -0700, you wrote: >If a person had access to a self-contained, portable shelter, then one >could live anywhere--desert, uninhabited island, mountains, etc. This, to >me, would seem to be a first priority. > I see that as a goal project of "The Area". Not a start unto itself. We as a group don't seem to have anyone living the Bucky lifestyle exclusivly, but may be able to create a base from which we can draw information and ability and new concepts and make them easier to pull into our lives. It may not start in Kentucky but how to build and artist retreat may be learned at this "Area". It is more at the stone soup level now. Not many people have money or time but if we see what people have we may see a structure form. We will talk about peoples resources later, even ones you may not know you have. (cause they may be too close for you to see them a resources) In the mean time I would ask that anyone who would care to dream tell me what they would like to have on Say aaaaa 15 acre piece of land that is not too perfect (a little to wet or dry a little hot a little cold). If you had a place you could train to or budget fly to to. A place try out ideas and see others or test bulding solar panels for a house or test the comfort of living in a cardboard dome for x number of days (or read reports of students who live in them and write concept papers on how to make them better or cheaper or stonger or how to market them to the U.N. for FEMA or whatever contacts those people will have and so on and so on. . . .) Dream now -- sort later. The hardest step is often beginning. It is for me sometimes. So throw your stones in the pool my friends and lets see some ripples. Yours in thought. Al McMahon "Even a great journey of 10,000 steps begins with one." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:01:19 -0700 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oregon Dome wrote: > Wood gives you all the flexibility as well > as some durability that these systems don't. > > Joe S. Moore wrote: > > > > I can't recommend any company that makes their domes out of materials that > > can BURN, ROT or be EATEN by bugs! Hi all, I am a devotee of timber construction. Wood has more positive properties than any other material on the planet. Sure steel has higher tensile strength, concrete has greater compressive strength, polyurethane foam is lighter - put all the desirable properties of a material for building domes together, timber wins hands down. >From design work I have done on very large domes a comparative index of approximate strength to weight ratios are: timber = 0.45, aluminium = 0.54, steel = 0.67. Furthermore, wood is a renewable resource which requires less energy input to get it into a usable form than any other material, unless you go to real low tech, subsistence, poverty line houses where what's available locally is used - and often that is wood. Ice for igloos, mudhuts, stone are some examples. Timber can be treated against bugs and decay, and there are also some naturally durable species. However, most softwoods, eg. Pinus Radiata is the main silviculture species in NZ, can be successfully treated. Sure it uses some nasty poisons to do the job(Cu,Cr,As), but research will mean that non-toxic solutions will become commercially viable e.g. Quaternary ammonium compounds, such as benzylkonium chloride, a coconut based surfactant already used as hair conditioner, disinfectant etc shows a lot of promise. As for the statement, timber burns.... in house fires it is what is in the house that burns, drapes, furniture, books etc, and the heat generated then affects the structure and materials of the house. Timber burns - yes we all know that truth - timber chars as it burns forming a protective casing inside of which sound timber can still do its structural job. The rate of charring is 0.6mm/min. This gives time for people to get out and possessions to be saved. It gives time for the fire brigade to arrive. Fumes in the fire are probably the most immediate life threatening problem. Generally the worst fumes in a fire are from plastic based furnishing and fabrics. Ask a fire-fighter how they fight a timber structured building fire compared with a steel structured building fire. He/she will tell you that they go inside the timber building and fight the fire from there, but they never go inside a steel building, because as the heat of the fire (generated from what's inside - not the building) plays on to the steel structure, the rapid expansion and contraction due to this thermal stress tears the connections apart and the structure collapses very quickly. I for one, will remain devoted to the use of timber for domes, other structures, furniture, etc for not only sound structural and fire reasons but also because of environmental concern. As a footnote, I do not believe you can build a bigger dome than you can build in steel. The largest plane that ever flew, the Spruce Goose, was timber. How come the metal boys have never built one bigger? Perhaps - just maybe - THEY CAN'T! Regards John Rich ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:54:07 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Company Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Joe S. Moore" wrote: >I can't recommend any company that makes their domes out of materials that >can BURN, ROT or be EATEN by bugs! > >**************************************** >* Joe S. Moore >* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar >* joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com >* Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute >* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >**************************************** Starnet uses aluminum. I'm not sure if we have any titanium domes in inventory. These structures use metals for skeletal ribbing only, not for the triangular fill, which is where wood has come in handy in ecosystems still able to justify the costs (Oregon is not a typical). Baldwin's Tefzel pillows filled with argon are still in prototype phase, so far as I know. Fiberglass and other more plastic substances (sometimes petroleum based) are also candidates -- have been used already. Materials science has a vast array of surfaces to choose from, including the carbon-composites these days. A lot of expense calculations merely look at current market price, but of course a lot of these prices would drop exponentially with bulk production factored in, the marginal return making the additional units a lot less pricey. We're still very much in the early days of the avionics-meets- housing industry, with companies like Oregon Dome adapting standard site-building construction industry technology and conventions to the new blueprint options. Once we start engaging Boeing-style metal presses and computer-style plastic molding (gotta watch those acids!) we'll be better equipped to feed our global data models with likely resource mix patterns. I still expect titanium to be a bigger part of the economy, but of course not in all makes and models (and I'm not just talking domes -- think of the tent industry, only some are dome-shaped (but portability is still important (unlike in the Oregon Dome case))). All wood domes will remain an option, but I suspect a relative rarity (about as common as wood-encased computers). Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:31:58 -0700 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Rich wrote: > As a footnote, I do not believe you can build a bigger dome than you can > build in steel. The largest plane that ever flew, the Spruce Goose, was > timber. How come the metal boys have never built one bigger? Perhaps - > just maybe - THEY CAN'T! Correction - I meant timber, not steel, for the biggest possible dome. Regards John Rich > John Rich ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:35:09 -0700 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: YOUR GEODESIC DOMES PAPER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe S. Moore wrote: Hi Jo, > When was your book 'Timber Geodesic Domes' published? Is it available for sale? > It was published in 1982 - my 21yr old student son has my only copy, so I'm unable to look it up. I am thinking of three things- scan the book for web distribution, re-publish it, publish a new book which incorporates it but brings things up to date. The U.S.Library of Congress has a copy, I believe. > > See the "Selected Ideas/Icosas/Huge" section of my web pages (below) for references to > covered cities, cloud cities, etc. > Also, I'm including several graphics from your paper just to see how they look in the > new multimedia email: > > 12m 3v superellipsoidal icosahedron (with clerestorey) > > 3v super ellipsoidal icosahedron > > Elevation of a 10v superellipsoidal icosahedron > Good stuff - I like it. Regards John Rich ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 03:34:57 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: RJ DiCerb Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Subject: dead heads The last time I looked into the dome deal was back in the 70's.Usually articles written by space cadets living in the woods , and of course their roofs were not totaly finished yet. Now its the end of the ninety's and was wondering about if the situation has gotten any better. After reading article after article it kind of reminded me of driving through berkely and seeing the people where time has evidently stood still. Is there any sites that actually lend info to design and construction, roofing systems that work, hub and strut calculations,etc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:21:07 -0700 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: Company Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Urner wrote: Kirby Urner wrote: > Once we start engaging > Boeing-style metal presses and computer-style plastic molding > (gotta watch those acids!) we'll be better equipped to feed our > global data models with likely resource mix patterns. Mass production techniques - one dome fits all - it hasn't even looked like happening so far. > All wood domes will remain an option, but I suspect > a relative rarity (about as common as wood-encased computers). Where will the energy come from to produce these high tech alternatives to timber. I believe we will use more and more timber as energy becomes more expensive. I believe we will head for a much lower level of technology and adapt local materials. Look at the current interest in Straw-bale housing. Or this this just the aging, neo-hippie capitalist in me speaking? As for the wood encased computer. It is extremely common - it is called an abacus. Regards John Rich ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 06:06:10 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: JavaDomes etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >If something exists that is similiar then I don't see a need to reinvent >the wheel but as of yet I see no practical procedure to channel people with >interest into an environment where they can learn about these topics on a >hands on approach. I would imagine that this is not just a location but >that there would be a procedure to funnel people interested into spending >time there. Learn and contribute then stay and teach or leave and take the >know how back to the masses. There you show by doing. I have found from >my experiences that doing is the best way to show and that if you shine >others will come. In this case we need a medium to show. Houseing and the >savings in emotional strife and money will also serve as an attraction. > You bring up a promising scenario Michael. In my web-based 'Brainstorming on BuckyWorks' [1], I suggest that retreat centers, many of which have a religious institutional base, are logical settings for providing folks with exposure to lifestyle options based around: (a) values of simplicity, sustainability, right sharing of resources (b) new artifacts designed to make lifestyles in accord with such values more feasible, desirable Indeed, the whole complement of technologies designed to provide a measure of autonomy and self-sufficiency (still depending on cosmic sources of course, like sunlight) fits naturally into the age-old religious order practice of taking care of basics, including some business around value-adding for trade, and committing surplus to the worship of dieties, accessing higher sources or whatever (most such orders do not terminate in dark tabloid-style media stories either, fortunately). So we already have infrastructure in place, in the form of existing retreat centers and tending religious schools, for (a) 'hard core fanatics' willing to live the new lifestyles full time, year round (b) neophytes, newbies, guests, visitors, would-be initiates, and lay practitioners who visit the fanatics' facilities for short periods, maybe just days, and 'learn the ropes', taking what they've learned back to their communities I'm writing somewhat tougue-in-cheek of course, casting J. Baldwin as one of those 'hard core' types who could teach the rest of us what it really means to live and work in a PillowDome, tending to argon leaks and Tefzel patching [2], and gardening (including hydroponics) according to 'new alchemy' principles. But on the other hand, there's nothing to say we shouldn't incorporate such teachings into whatever existing religions we plan to keep around. >From my point of view (as another 'hard core fanatic'), if you're not up on your Fuller, our first 'engineer-saint', your 'religion' is probably going stale and is unlikely to attract as many youngsters as the ones that make more intelligent and compassionate use of our Earthian Spaceship's resources (including domes). But that's just my personal reading. Kirby Religious Society of Friends [1] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bworks.html [2] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeproto.html ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:01:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Timber Burns (and Paper Cuts) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John Rich speculated: > As a footnote, I do not believe you can build a bigger dome than you can > build in steel. The largest plane that ever flew, the Spruce Goose, was > timber. How come the metal boys have never built one bigger? Perhaps - > just maybe - THEY CAN'T! > Correction - I meant timber, not steel, for the biggest possible dome. Much like trestle bridges, it is possible to implement large dome structures from either wood or metal. Each material (steel, other metals, wood, composites, micro-laminated "plywood" beams, whatever) has certain inherent properties (tensile strength, shear strength, and such) that dictate: Shape Thickness Length ...whatever At some point, material selection is "dictated" by costs. Since domes are (sadly) a low-volume business, the lower capitalization required to make struts from wood, combined with the wide supply of wood, tends to force wood to the top of the list. Since domes can be "broken down" to nearly any "frequency" one wishes, the length (and mass) of individual struts can be kept reasonable regardless of dome size. The largest dome structures (the Union Tank Car Facility come to mind as a well-known example) HAVE been metal. Metal is "more stable" than wood, and so can be machined to finer tolerances, and undergoes less environment-induced expansion and contraction on a strut-by-strut basis. Metal can also be fabricated into "I-Beams" and other fancy higher-strength/lower-mass shapes, where wood simply cannot be "trusted" to be knot-free, warp-free, and split free in such configurations that assume absolute uniformity of one square inch of material versus another. Wood is a fine material for a structure. There are many examples in every town of a "really old" wooden building. If protected from the elements, wood can survive well. All structures have a "lifespan". This is a DESIGN feature, and is yet another trade-off in the multi-variable equation of the "design spiral". From amoebas to elephants, we're all just basic elements. Everyone is just compost in the end. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:53:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Beginning Domes Comments: To: The Lorax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See the instructions for subscribing to the DOME list at: http://www.hoflin.com/DOME.html **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: The Lorax > To: Joe S. Moore > Subject: Re: Beginning Domes > Date: Thursday, May 08, 1997 2:04 PM > > On Sat, 3 May 1997, Joe S. Moore wrote: > > > I'm forwarding your post to the DOME and GEODESIC lists. Also, browse > > through my web pages below; there should be some links and references to > > exactly what you are looking for. > > How do I subscribe to the DOME list? I was on it before I changed > servers but lost th address. My new server does carry > bit.listserv.geodesic as a newsgroup so I have that one. > > Thanks. > > > > > St. Paul, Minnesota > > "Innovation and invention > are what happen when someone > makes a conscious effort > to ignore accepted limits." > -- Homesteader -- > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:38:45 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! I would like to see those parts of a tree that have traditionally been considered "waste" by the lumber industry being used to assemble modular building parts, like octet trusses. This is probably why I'm not living in a dome yet :-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:35:42 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: JavaDomes etc. Kirby Urner writes: > You bring up a promising scenario Michael (Actually it was Al McMahon who brought it up... I was just responding to it.) I agree, though, about the "retreat" idea, as a way of ensuring that you attract like-minded people... as long as the emphasis doesn't get shifted too far toward keeping "outsiders" out.... > I'm writing somewhat tougue-in-cheek of course, casting J. Baldwin > as one of those 'hard core' types who could teach the rest of us > what it really means to live and work in a PillowDome, tending to > argon leaks and Tefzel patching [2], and gardening (including > hydroponics) according to 'new alchemy' principles. Yeah, sounds like a little bit o' heaven, doesn't it? Only with sand in your underwear. I'm interested in the Atlantis Project, too. Next to the Kentucky hills, I would be very interested in living in such a floating city scenario. From there, it's not such a conceptual leap to one of Fuller's floating cloud-spheres. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:27:51 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: ...and paper covers rock... James Fischer writes: > Metal can also be fabricated into "I-Beams" and other > fancy higher-strength/lower-mass shapes, where wood simply > cannot be "trusted" to be knot-free, warp-free, and split > free in such configurations that assume absolute uniformity > of one square inch of material versus another. What about bamboo, assembled into octet trusses? (And of course, I'm also thinking of good old Kentucky cane, actually a bamboo, that never grows as big as oriental bamboos.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:23:18 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Action again Comments: To: Karen Jenkins Al McMahon writes: > So throw your stones in the pool my friends and lets see some ripples. Okay, so here are things I'd like to start with: <> Enough wind to play with wind-generated power, both mechanical and electrical. <> Enough running water to play with hydroelectric/hydromechanical power, on whatever miniscule level. <> Enough sunlight, year-round, to play with solar-electric, solar-thermal (other??) energy transformations. <> Enough seasonal variation to challenge the above. <> Renewable source of potable water. <> Available raw materials for building experimental buildings and frivolous things like 32' geodesic spheres, for no apparent reason. Technologies, in addition to/expansion of the above: <> Fish- and crayfish culture. <> Greenhousing. <> Orcharding. <> Mushroom farming (high-quality food that you can farm for food and as a cash crop without cutting down your forests). <> Biomass conversion to methane (including the ever-popular composting toilet). <> Distillery (for drinking water... and/or fuel alcohol). <> Worm farming (for soil reclamation ...worm doodoo as a "cash crop"). I do NOT intend to become a farmer, or (worse) an agribusinessman... i.e., a monoculturalist. I DO intend to stay involved with the Internet (where Wendell Berry and I part company, philosophically). Aesthetic concerns: <> I want to live somewhere where I can't see all of the land by standing in one spot; this implies hills. <> My wife needs at least 20 acres of good pasture for her horses. This implies NOT-hills. <> I want cliffs, and tall trees. <> I intend to make my main occupation: walking around and looking at stuff. All those other things have to get done after I've gotten enough walking and looking out of my system. <> And I want time to pursue painting and carving, stone and wood. Slap my wrist, somebody. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:51:13 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: Company Comparison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Urner wrote: > I still expect titanium to be a bigger part of the economy, but > of course not in all makes and models (and I'm not just talking > domes -- think of the tent industry, only some are dome-shaped > (but portability is still important (unlike in the Oregon Dome > case))). All wood domes will remain an option, but I suspect > a relative rarity (about as common as wood-encased computers). > > Kirby > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU > Email: pdx4d@teleport.com > Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ While these materials sure are great for some applications, how is the average home owner/do it yourselfer going to chop a hole in thier wall and put in a window when wood gets to be such a rare material? I'm certainly not competent enough to cut through titanium, steel, concrete, or even fiberglass with any sort of confidence that I'm not going to irrepairably damage my building. My point is that if you want a building that only a technician can repair, modify, or build, these materials are fine. If you want something that the average Joe can repair, modify or build, you have to build with wood. It is easy to insulate, easy to finish, easy to modify, and so on and so on. Also, while wood production has undoubtedly caused some severe environmental damage (I used to call myself a fisherman, but with the damage done to salmon runs by, among other things, lumber harvesting, I now have some nice fishing pole decorations), it remains easier on the environment than steel production (I know nothing about titanium). My very personal opinion is that some people want to engineer everything to utilize space-age materials, without consideration of the damage, waste, or the superiority of existing materials. It is not necessary, nor even desirable to do this. Lets apply our technology to things that could use the improvement rather than creating homes that are more and more technologically out of the reach of an average owner, whatever that average may be. -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:41:11 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: SBeshear Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: selfmade dome check out http://www.graphcomp.com/home/bfree/arch/domes.html for some examples and feasibility of selfmade domes. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:08:48 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DoctorData@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Human Systems Grow some memes of our own... Way back on March 20, 1997, in reply to In article <3330e2ad.97652483@news.teleport.com>, pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote: >You aren't being very forthcoming about what these human problems might >be. From where I sit, the problem is we're sitting at the bottom of >a cesspool of bad information, much of it deliberately misinforming, >to serve some selfish pirate, probably long dead (but the junk keeps >floating, passed from hand to hand, like these bogus virus warnings >on the internet). We're suffocating down here, struggling to get >to the bright surface of a brighter day, working hard to pump fresh >information into this swill, in hopes of improving our chances for >survival., and johnca@CGL.ORG (John Abbe) replied: >How do we combat such a self-reinforcing system? One method of combatting bad information is by insering good information into our "informational genetic structure", as it were. Such information can be inserted via memes. An example of a meme is one I grew up with: "A woman's place is in the home." While I don't remember actually ever hearing anyone say this (at least, not like they meant it), it is a cultural more I grew up with. It was just there, in the culture. A meme can be thought of, in my understanding, as akin to a gene, but in the inherited thought structure, a contraction of "memory" and "gene". I've seen the idea surface here in there in articles and conversation. The first place I saw it surface was in a story called "In The Country Of The Blind", by Michael Flynn, around 1992. (The title is a part of a quote - by whom I do not know - "In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."). In this story, society in the United States is manipulated by the use of inserting memes into the culture. (They used Babbage Engines at first tio figure out what effects various memes would have). This could be done by starting a rumor or by talking to people who talk to people like gossip). This mechanism works as well for good information as it does for bad information. If we are feeling suffocated by bad information, part of our suffocation, I feel, is our tendency to be the one-eyed humans. By the way, I'm sorry it took me so long to participate in these discussions. I've been lurking for far too long. Cheers! -Steve ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:26:46 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DoctorData@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! jmr@MANAGEMENT21.COM (J. Michael Rowland) wrote: >I would like to see those parts of a tree that have traditionally been >considered "waste" by the lumber industry being used to assemble modular >building parts, like octet trusses. I could be way off here, but I thought I had read more than once that there is very little of a tree that gets cut into lumber that is wasted. The sawdust, etc. goes into particle board (sawdust and glue), Duralogs(TM) (sawdust and wax and perfume), and other delightful modern products. I suppose the stray twigs get chopped up and used the same way. I wonder if strong trusses could be made out of the same stuff? -Steve ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:38:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Human Systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Steve (DoctorData@AOL.COM) said: >An example of a meme is one I grew up with: > > "A woman's place is in the home." > >While I don't remember actually ever hearing anyone say >this (at least, not like they meant it), it is a cultural more I >grew up with. It was just there, in the culture. The actual original phrase was: "A woman's place is in the HOUSE (or perhaps the Senate)" See how things can get mangled and manipulated by the media? :) From amoebas to elephants, we're all just basic elements. Everyone is just compost in the end. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:30:07 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! DoctorData@AOL.COM,Internet writes: > I thought I had read more than once that there > is very little of a tree that gets cut into lumber > that is wasted. The sawdust, etc. goes into particle > board (sawdust and glue), Duralogs(TM) (sawdust and > wax and perfume), and other delightful modern products. > I suppose the stray twigs get chopped up and used the > same way. Probably do; I meant the parts that were considered "waste" as in "not suitable as lumber." I guess particle board and blandex and chipboard would be considered ways of utilizing this "waste." I was thinking of the twigs and branches. I think a geodesic sphere made of twigs would be pretty neat... at least as art, if not as shelter. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:32:08 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: The Lorax Organization: pcOnline Internet Services Subject: missing messages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am frequently seeing responses in this newsgroups where I have never seen the original message being responded to. I know some people receive this as a mailing list instead of as a newsgroup. Are some there messages posted to the mailing list and never make it into the newsgroup? St. Paul, Minnesota "Innovation and invention are what happen when someone makes a conscious effort to ignore accepted limits." -- Homesteader -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:58:02 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harmon Seaver Organization: Maddog Press Subject: Natural, portable housing Comments: cc: domesteading@sculptors.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J. Michael Rowland wrote: >> as lumber." I guess particle board and blandex and chipboard would be considered > ways of utilizing this "waste." I was thinking of the twigs and Actually, an awfully lot of that is made from whole trees that are just chipped up, not sawn at all into lumber. I think as far as natural products go for building purposes, the best resource, especially for domes, is bamboo -- not only for the struts, but it is also made into plybamboo, which could be used for the panels, and bamboo flooring. Plus split and woven mats, dividers, etc. Much more "renewable" a resource than trees, which take forever to grow. Bamboo is also an excellent soil-stabilizer for deforested areas. Whole villages used to be built on bamboo rafts in China, with gardens, poultry, cows, and pigs. One emperor (Wu Ti, 140-86BC) even built a huge castle on a bamboo raft, 600x600 feet with 2000 soldiers and calvary horses on it. Rafts with 200 families were reported in the 17th century. Just a few years ago some dudes crossed the Pacific from VietNam on a bamboo raft -- they did it in original style to prove a point, but much better rafts could be built with modern methods. Bucky even built some of his first domes with bamboo in Calcutta. Bamboo trellis domes covered in concrete have been built in earthquake areas, and woven bamboo strips are likewise used to reinforce concrete instead of steel rebar in quake zones. Think about it --- a raft with a dome on it, floating on the sea. Maybe groups of them, coming together, splitting up, gardening hydroponicly, doing aquaculture -- free of governments, using waste products like plastic milk jugs for added flotation -- the possibilities are endless. -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net http://www.zebra.net/~hseaver ======================================================================= "Facts an' facts, an' t'ings an' t'ings: dem's all a lotta fockin' bullshit. Hear me! Dere is no truth but de one truth, an' that is de truth of Jah Rastafari." -- Sir Robert Marley, 1978 ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 21:38:02 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "J. Michael Rowland" Organization: Management 21 Inc. Subject: Re: Natural, portable housing Comments: To: Harmon Seaver Harmon Seaver writes: > ...the best resource, especially for domes, is bamboo... I'm very interested in bamboo, or more precisely, in Kentucky river cane, in case you didn't see my earlier post. Tell me more. What about lashing it into octet trusses? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:17:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gib Cooper Subject: 1997 Pacific Northwest Bamboo Agroforestry Workshop (PNW97) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Check out for more bamboo info. Here is the latest brochure concerning registering: To survey the beautiful site of the workshop point your web browser to: 1997 Pacific Northwest Bamboo Agroforestry Workshop (PNW97) June 21-23, 1997 at Ft. Worden, Port Townsend, Washington BACKGROUND The workshop is based on the recognition of bamboo in Asia as a valuable forestry resource. The world demand for bamboo may be growing faster than supply can allow. American interest in bamboo production is increasing. We are developing new ways of processing bamboo fiber into products. A demand for fresh bamboo shoots is found nationally in Asian cuisine. In the Pacific Northwest region we have a foundation of bamboo businesses, ample land and water to raise bamboo for bamboo processing, poles and bamboo shoots. The PNW97 program evolved from the following list of goals set by the 1994 Pacific Northwest Bamboo Agroforestry Workshop planning group for bamboo applications, communications and research: 1) Information exchange through computer networking 2) Determination of target bamboo species for pulp, poles, shoots, and craft applications 3) Publication of the workshop proceedings 4) Formation of grower, cottage industry and marketing co-ops 5) Development of other goals for researchers 6) Design of a bamboo project based on municipal spray waste irrigation 7) Promotion of riparianimprovement with bamboo PNW97 PROGRAM Since 1994, there are new developments in the bamboo world. The PNW97 presentations address several of the new directions in the bamboo community. These areas include processing domestic bamboo, bamboo as fodder, effects of and managing the flower cycles, economics, bamboo architecture, bamboo shoot farming, agroforestry models, pole production, bamboo as a community resource and new products. All bamboo growers, researchers, engineers, crafters and interested persons are invited to attend sessions. The presentations will feature various aspects of bamboo research, production and application. The Presentations: NAME-TOPIC-QUALIFICATIONS NED JAQUITH - Flowering of Bamboo - Bamboo Nurseryman, President PNC-ABS, Portland, OR DARREL DEBOER - Bamboo Architecture and the Possibilities - Architect, Berkeley, CA SIMON VELEZ - Bamboo Architecture in Columbia - Architect, COLUMBIA ANDY LEE - Laminated Bamboo Lumber (LBL), Oriented Strand Board (OSB) Made from Bamboo, and Bamboo-Reinforced OSB Beam and Technical Data for the Utilization of Bamboo Resources Grown in the USA During the Past Three Years - Bamboo Researcher, Clemson University, SC. GARY YOUNG - Advanced Bamboo/Epoxy Composites - Laminate Technician & Researcher, HI. TREVOR DAGILIS - Bamboo Particleboard - Civil Engineering, Queen's University at Kingston, CANADA ANDY BARY, STEVE FRANSEN, CAROL MILES, and CRAIG COGGER - Bamboo in Sustainable Agriculture: Research Horizons - Washington State University-Puyallup and Lewis County Cooperative Extension GAROLD NELSON - Analysis of Bamboo as Fodder - Bamboo Grower and Stockman, Coquille, OR DAPHNE LEWIS and SIMON HENDERSON - Building A Bamboo Farm and Marketing It's Products - Simon Henderson holds a Diploma in Permacultue Design from the Permaculture Institute of Australia, Daphne Lewis is a Bamboo Landscape Designer, Seattle, WA TIM OGDEN - Bamboo Shoot Production - Bamboo Agroforestry Grower, Mrytle Creek, OR. DR. CAO QUNGEN - The Status, Growing and Models of Bamboo in Agroforestry of China - Associate Professor in bamboo cultivation and forest ecology, Subtropical Forestry Research Institute, CHINA RICK VALLEY - A Polyculture for Rapid Grove Establishment - Bamboo Grower/Permaculturist, OR. STEPHEN BUXBAUM - Developing a Cooperative - Former Executive Director of WA State Rural Development Council and Executive Director of the Farm and Community Council, WA. MILO G. CLARK - Bamboo as a Community Resource: Bamboo as an Industrial Commodity - Managing Director, Strategic Design, a consultancy in rural community and development, Berkeley, CA. (Milo is the Editor of the 1997 PNW Bamboo Agroforestry Workshop Proceedings) EMELINE NAVERA - Establishment of a Model/Demonstration Integrated Bamboo Propagation and Agri-Industrial Village in the Philippines - Cottage Industry Center, Dept. of Trade & Industry, Philippines. BUILDING WITH BAMBOO Monday, June 23 - a workshop with Simon Velez Simon's Sunday afternoon presentation of bamboo structures in Columbia resumes with a personal hands-on experience. Help build a bamboo truss. Work joining bamboo timber. Learn about bamboo connections. Understand bamboo pole grading systems. Find out about using bamboo engineering standards. See how Simon uses bamboo technology in his structures. Space is limited. Register early. GENERAL The registration fee for the conference is $40. Additional fees for lodging and food service are: Friday night , June 20 - $36, Saturday, June 21- $42 and Sunday, June22- $42. The proceedings of the 1994 workshop are $18 post paid (Available now). The proceedings of the 1997 workshop are $30 post paid (Shipped when completed). The one night lodging package includes meals (see reg. form). Friday night lodging includes dinner and Saturday breakfast, Saturday night lodging includes lunch, dinner and Sunday breakfast, and Sunday night lodging includes lunch, dinner and Monday breakfast. An additional refundable deposit of $20 for room keys. There is a cancellation fee of $35. YOUR STAY AT FT. WORDEN Historic Fort Worden State Park Conference Center has it all! Situated in Port Townsend, the beautiful park setting has meeting facilities, dormitory rooms, campsites and food services. Within the park's boundaries are rhododendron gardens, woods, open space, architecture and miles of beaches. Next door is Victorian Port Townsend with art galleries, eateries, bed & breakfasts, museums and entertainment. Located on the Olympic Peninsula, Ft. Worden overlooks Puget Sound and the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Access from Seattle is a one hour drive and a ferry ride. People coming from the south may just drive. Commuter flights are available from Seattle. For information about Port Townsend call the Chamber of Commerce 360/385-2722, e-mail: ptchambr@olympus.net. Future announcements and current information about the workshop can be requested by e-mail from Gib Cooper at: bambugib@harborside.com. SCHEDULE (Registration, presentations and tradeshow activities are held at the chapel.) Friday, June 20, 1997 Friday night arrivals: lodging with dinner. Social gathering at the workshop hall (Ft. Worden Chapel). Registration packet and key pickup at the chapel after 4:30 pm. Dinner at 7:30 pm. Saturday, June 21, 1997 9:00 Registration packet and key pickup at the chapel. 10:00 Opening keynote address 10:30 Morning presentations: Andy Bary, Steve Fransen, Carol Miles and Craig Cogger. Stephen Buxbaum. Ned Jaquith. 1:00 Lunch break 2:00-6:00 Afternoon presentations: Dr. Cao Qungen, Rick Valley,Milo G. Clark and Emeline Navera. 7:00 Workshop Banquet 7:30 Social and Music: RARE PLANT AUCTION Sunday, June 22, 1997 8:30 Coffee and Pastries 9:00 Morning presentations: Trevor Dagilis, Andy Lee and Gary Young. 12:00 Lunch break 1:00 Afternoon presentations: Darrel DeBoer, Simon Velez, Garold Nelson, Simon Henderson, Daphne Lewis and Tim Ogden 6:00 Plant Sale Monday, June 23 Time to Be Announced: Post Workshop Class: "Building with Bamboo" - Simon Velez and Darrel DeBoer --------------------------------- Tradeshow 1997 The opportunity for people in the bamboo world to display and market their products. With regional publicity to the general public, and numerous workshop participants, exposure will be high. The setting is an outdoor arrangement next to the chapel, workshop site. The weather can be unpredictable. We suggested you bring an overhead cover. Please, no closed wall shelters. To help us in our event brochure, please include with your completed registration form a short description of what your bamboo business makes or does. Please inform us of any special needs you have for your booth set up. For example: electricity, running water, tables, etc. Booth space for commercial companies is $50 for the 2 days. (Non-profits are no charge) For More Information about the Tradeshow Contact: Marc Hilt, Site and Tradeshow Coordinator, 2760 Gibbs Lake Rd., Chimacum, WA 98325. Tel:360/301-0499 e-mail: mmhilt@olypen.com -------------------------------- Plant Sale 1997 This is your chance to buy bamboo plants for edible bamboo shoots, timber production, fodder, erosion control, and, of course, to beautify your landscape. There will be a good selection with reasonable prices. For more information and essential guidelines: Ron Kay, 2014 SE 57th Ave., Portland, OR 97215-3411. Tel: 503/234-8832 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PNW97 is sponsored by Washington State University, Jefferson & Lewis County Cooperative Extension, the American Bamboo Society, and the Pacific Northwest, Northern and Southern California Chapters of the American Bamboo Society. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Coordinated by: Gib Cooper 28446 Hunter Creek Loop Gold Beach, OR 97444 Tel & FAX: (541) 247-0835 or email: bambugib@harborside.com Pacific Northwest Chapter of the American Bamboo Society 2nd Vice President for Public Information of the American Bamboo Society Carol Miles,PhD. Area Extension Agricultural Systems WSU-Cooperative Extension 360 NW North St. MS:AES01 Chehalis, WA 98532-1900 Tel: (360) 740-1295, FAX: (360) 740-2792 or email: milesc@wsu.edu THE GRASS ROOTS ORGANIZATION--------------------------------------------- MILO CLARK ~ PROCEEDINGS EDITOR Design of a publication is a critical step leading to a better product. I have been involved with publications since school days. Copy desk work, rewriting the words of others, is probably the best training in wordsmithing possible. I have often been responsible for every stage of publication from writing to product. Tel. 510/526-5512, e-mail: Milogic@aol.com MARC HILT ~ SITE COORDINATOR Employed by City of Port Townsend Parks Department, my involvement with bamboo sprang out of my horticultural projects for city parks. To learn more about bamboo I became active in the bamboo society. I am very interested in bamboo agroforestry. Elected as a director for the chapter (PNC-ABS), I took on the responsibility of coordinating the workshop site, tradeshow, and hosting our bamboo friends to Port Townsend. Tel:360/301-0499,e-mail: mmhilt@olypen.com RON KAY ~ PLANT SALE COORDINATOR I love kayaking but bamboo is a passion. I have managed the PNC-ABS plant sales for several years. I am volunteering my experience to promote bamboo agroforestry as plant sale coordinator. Tel: 503/234-8832 NED JAQUITH ~ ACTIVITIES COORDINATOR As a longtime bamboo nurseryman, I have had the opportunity to make worldwide bamboo friends. I hope my role in the agroforestry workshop helps to make your visit memorable.Tel: 503/231-7322, e-mail: bamboo@pcez.com CAROL A. MILES, Ph.D. ~ COORDINATOR I help farmers in our region to learn about and to develop new vegetable crops. In one of our educational programs we featured edible bamboo shoot farming. Through this and interest from members of the PNC-ABS and research staff at WSU, I became involved in the workshop and the sustainable production of bamboo for food and fiber. Tel: 360/740-1295, e-mail: milesc@wsu.edu GIB COOPER ~ COORDINATOR After fifteen years as a bamboo grower, I began the bamboo agroforestry workshop in 1994 to fill the need for regional bamboo industry development. The workshop is designed to share bamboo experiences, to focus research and to educate the public about bamboo as a community and industrial resource. I am volunteering my time with the other organizers to see the workshop become the national forum on bamboo agroforestry. Tel: 541/247-0835, e-mail: bambugib@harborside.com Future information about the workshop can be found at the web site below: http://www.bamboo.org/abs/PNWWorkshop.html ----------------------------- cut here ------------------------------ 1997 Pacific Northwest Bamboo Agroforestry Workshop Registration Form Space Available Basis -- (Note: Registrations need to be accompanied by a check for the total. ONLY PREPAID registrations are accepted as as reservations. Reservations are on a first come first serve basis.) Family Name: ___________________________ First Name:________________Title:_______ Date:_______ Organization: __________________________________________ Vegetarian meals?:yes ___no____ Address: ________________________________ E-Mail:______________________________ City, State & ZIP__________________________________________________Country___________________ Phone: __________________________Fax: ___________________________ Registration for the 1997 PNW Bamboo Agroforestry Workshop:$40 How many?______TOTAL:______________ Lodging for Friday night: $36 How many______ TOTAL:____________ Lodging for Saturday night: $42 How many______ TOTAL:____________ Lodging for Sunday night: $42 How many_______ TOTAL:____________ IMPORTANT: THERE IS A $11 PER NIGHT BEDDING FEE IF YOU DO NOT BRINGING YOUR OWN (Note: camping is $15 per night with $20 for meal ticket.) Registration for Trade show Booth :$50_____________ -- (please include information) Simon Velez & Darrel DeBoer's Building with Bamboo workshop:$50 How many______ TOTAL:_______________ 1994 proceedings (Available now): $18______________________ 1997 proceedings (When ready): $30______________________ TOTAL OF ALL THE ABOVE :_________________________ MAIL THE CHECK MADE OUT TO "PNC-ABS Workshop" TO THE COORDINATOR'S ADDRESS BELOW: Return to: PNW Bamboo Workshop Coordinator, 28446 Hunter Creek Loop, Gold Beach, OR 97444 USA Other comments?______________________________________________________________ QUESTIONS? Call Gib Cooper at 541/247-0835 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 21:49:18 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harmon Seaver Organization: Maddog Press Subject: Re: Natural, portable housing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Huh, just found this on the web: ======================================================================= Bill Castle built this tightly-fit log house in the Allegheny hills near Belmont, (northwest) New York state. All logs were cut on the land and since Bill used to build bridges he knows how to put buildings together. He and his wife Barb now run a bed and breakfast here. Bill has another venture going, The Bamboo Project in Costa Rica, which we'll cover extensively in Homework. He has devised a method of joining together posts and beams of bamboo using a piece of bent re-bar and epoxy foam for framing a house. He has 5 farmers in the Caribbean town of Puerto Viejo growing timber bamboo and his goal is to be able to provide local families with a pre-cut bamboo frame that can be easily erected and then later roofed and completed. He recently attended the international bamboo conference in Bali and has a lot of material on building with this versatile and renewable building material. Shelter Publications Online Bolinas, California, USA Home Page URL: http://www.shelterpub.com/ ================================================================== The main thing was about the framing techniques. I'll be interested to see the book. -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net http://www.zebra.net/~hseaver ======================================================================= "Facts an' facts, an' t'ings an' t'ings: dem's all a lotta fockin' bullshit. Hear me! Dere is no truth but de one truth, an' that is de truth of Jah Rastafari." -- Sir Robert Marley, 1978 ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:16:29 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DoctorData@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Action again again Al McMahon wrote: > So throw your stones in the pool my friends and lets see some ripples. To which jmr@MANAGEMENT21.COM (J. Michael Rowland) replied: >Okay, so here are things I'd like to start with: ><> Enough wind to play with wind-generated power, both mechanical and electrical. ><> Enough running water to play with hydroelectric/hydromechanical power, on whatever miniscule level. ***Why not?*** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:21:56 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: aperture@CAMERA.AMERICAN.EDU Organization: color Subject: demo@laurel Hi, we'll get right to the point. We operate one of the finest quality custom color labs in the USA. To introduce you to our service we're offering the following Internet enlargement special: Your color negatives hand printed on Kodak Supra Professional 16x20 inch paper. All negatives printed full frame. 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We do authorize and encourage the forwarding of this message to interested parties, for the purpose of informing them of Internet Communications Inc. services. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:49:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: Domes in Europe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit are you making a lot of money! if so you should share it with us. but more important let us start mass producing company, is it hard as it seem; and let us build it in India or somwhere where all the manfacturing variable are suitable. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:44:16 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: Action again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit everyone likes san francisco science museume, you should include smart toyes -for children- cottage; a learning zone; the smart toys triger the chromosoms learning curve and by repeting the work, helps keep the ability chanal open. geometry does realy form the imagination in 4 or more diminsion- once the child have built the shapes few times you can make movement with your hand in space and the child will respond to what you infer to. tagdi p.s what shall i do with an utopia in my head, while i am suffering from deprivation - + + = zero ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:26:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: Action again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fantastic idea: look: a place like that will generat money from visiters and contributers. i know someone in Kentuky who want to lead a a life disenged from the system totaly to form the first free lunch society. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:53:08 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: sleeping 6 times, light diet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit be carful, i am not advocating this. i think you have to be reasonable mentaly healthy. the idea was mentioned in system group, to sleep 1/2 hour every 4 hours that way i think you save 5 hours of sleep. i have tried it for 3-4 days more less- except my clock was broken- it works but it takes time to reorient oneself. i am not going to do it, i have to many problems as it is. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:21:36 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: dead heads Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if two people started the production of the car, it is probably quite possible that the dome-as the only means to solve the housing problem after total inability of the compression industry to move even one feet forward- will be mass produced in the near future. i didnt know that the stock market is a silly business- experits in forcasting anylysis for top products( you can add if you know anything). the dom is not dead- its trying to to come to the surface... tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:11:43 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: Company Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kirby, important letter you sent, sort of getting the hidden varible out; mixing the element in synergetic paragraph. a subjective estimate of turning point toward high-standards would be 2005-7 Fuller have missed it by 10 years or so. in the mean time entropic world will rine. ----- a recent experiment mixing 2 different pellets of polysterene in a drop of water. found that the large spheres arrange themselves in penta on the surface this is caused by the depletion force smiliar to force that attract a two sailling boats, and the entropy of the small spheres. i have never red anything about entropy creating order; anyone familiar with such ideas. ----- the space suite cost 10 million dollars, i made amistake. and the most surface material is stronger than steal but it is not teflon as i mentioned. it seemed to me that knowing the pattren of star change, and movement of the earth, use of right words, and experiment of tracing the sun pluse understanding of reflex may change in time the thinking of flatness. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 03:39:52 +1200 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: Timber Burns (and Paper Cuts) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi James > The largest dome structures (the Union Tank Car Facility > come to mind as a well-known example) HAVE been metal. Louisiana Superdome as a steel structure is the largest. Some of the inflatables are up there. B.C.Place, Silverdome etc. I believe, with sound basis for believing, that it is possible to build a larger timber dome than you could ever build a metal dome. My previous post stated: >From design work I have done on very large domes a comparative index of > approximate strength to weight ratios are: timber = 0.45, aluminium = > 0.54, steel = 0.67. Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe the other materials could keep up structurally as the domes got bigger, but they could not keep up for price effectiveness. Have you ever seen how small the structural members in the Tacomadome are? > Metal is "more stable" than wood, and so can be machined > to finer tolerances, and undergoes less environment-induced > expansion and contraction on a strut-by-strut basis. The coefficient of thermal expansion of any metal is far greater than the coefficient of wood. I once set up a proof load test on an 8m diam. 5/8 3v icosahedron spheroid, framed with 2/75x50 and skinned with 15mm plywood. The load of .25kPa (design live load for a roof under NZ building codes), was applied by 50kg weights hanging from each node. The measurement of deflection was taken at the zenith using a dial gauge. The load caused 1.7mm defection. It hung there for three days. The variations in the readings during that time were +/- 0.2mm. They were due to a daily temperature variation of 15deg. C. I doubt that steel is that stable. I think concrete (ferro, GRC, steel reinforced etc.) would be as stable, but not metal. There is, to be fair, movement possible due to moisture, which you don't get with metal. However, properly dried, and protected timber, in a normal environment, where there is a relatively stable Equilibrium Moisture Content (about 16% at 15deg.C), doesn't move at all. Most movement problems are due to poorly dried timber. > Metal can also be fabricated into "I-Beams" and other > fancy higher-strength/lower-mass shapes, So too can timber - Plyweb beams, folded plates, stressed skin panels, glulam beams, trusses, barrel vaults, etc. > where wood simply > cannot be "trusted" to be knot-free, warp-free, and split > free in such configurations that assume absolute uniformity > of one square inch of material versus another. You can trust graded timber to comply with the its grade. Plywood, LVL, particle boards etc are all highly reliable as to grade, as the process of reconstituting the timber eliminates the effect of defects. Allowable stresses for design take into account the defects. > > Wood is a fine material for a structure. There are many > examples in every town of a "really old" wooden building. > If protected from the elements, wood can survive well. I absolutely agree. The same is true for most materials and structures. "Rust never sleeps" (Neil Young). > All structures have a "lifespan". Most structures built in cities with high real estate values have an effective life of 25 years at which point they will be demolished. Forget whether this is right or wrong, why build for 100years in such a climate. Regards, John Rich ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 20:10:46 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Duncan Organization: FCI Subject: FREE at home bussiness This is truly a great opportunity. With a little work, you can make a LOT of money!!!! http://freedomstarr.com/?GR9021010 for details. Just do it!!! ********************************************************************** This message has been sent using DYNAMIC MAIL. For more Information and Free Demo: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/concorde/index.html ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 02:58:14 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Filip De Vos Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium Subject: Re: Company Comparison Oregon Dome (oregon@ORDATA.COM) wrote: : Kirby Urner wrote: : > I still expect titanium to be a bigger part of the economy, but : > of course not in all makes and models (and I'm not just talking : > domes -- think of the tent industry, only some are dome-shaped : > (but portability is still important (unlike in the Oregon Dome : > case))). All wood domes will remain an option, but I suspect : > a relative rarity (about as common as wood-encased computers). [snipped Kirby's .sig] : While these materials sure are great for some applications, how is the : average home owner/do it yourselfer going to chop a hole in thier wall : and put in a window when wood gets to be such a rare material? I'm ^^^^^^ I think Kirby was talking about Bucky's 'Garden of Eden' domes, which are completely transparent. Baldwin's Pillowdomes actualise this concept. You are talking about a more conservative 'dark' home-dome, basically a house made from a geodesic frame, possibly wood-framed and wood-covered (except for the windows). : certainly not competent enough to cut through titanium, steel, concrete, Neither am I, but why would you want to be? Such repairs will be sufficiently rare, that it makes sense to leave that to specialists (probably a sub-division of the builders/livingry service). Learning to repair a titanium frame as part of learning to live in a pillow-dome will be a grand waste of time, since your skills will have rusted by the time you need them. Unless you are really, really unlucky. (I am assuming that you have something more drastic in mind than exchanging one or a couple of struts or hubs of the dome. I fail to see why you would want to forge, extrude or sinter, or even cut or drill Ti in you backyard) : or even fiberglass with any sort of confidence that I'm not going to : irrepairably damage my building. Irreparibly damage a titanium frame? If you are anywhere nearby when that happens, you probably won't be around to repair it. By contrast, learning to repair a Tefzel (registered trade-mark) pillow, and re-inflating it with Argon may be interesting. It is definately closer to your skills, or mine. : My point is that if you want a building that only a technician can : repair, modify, or build, these materials are fine. If you want : something that the average Joe can repair, modify or build, you have to : build with wood. It is easy to insulate, easy to finish, easy to : modify, and so on and so on. The game is not to build structures the average Joe can repair, modify or build, it is to build structures that do not need repair, or modification, period. If the average Joe wants a bigger pillow-dome, he should order one, or buy an existing structure, like is done now with conventional structures, or lease one from the livingry service. : Also, while wood production has undoubtedly caused some severe : environmental damage (I used to call myself a fisherman, but with the No kidding. This is more a problem of organisation/politics, than of technology. The system the English imposed on Burma (now Myanmar) to harvest teak, was designed to run for ever. Now that the Thai have clean-cut their own country completely...... : damage done to salmon runs by, among other things, lumber harvesting, I : now have some nice fishing pole decorations), it remains easier on the : environment than steel production (I know nothing about titanium). : My very personal opinion is that some people want to engineer everything : to utilize space-age materials, without consideration of the damage, : waste, or the superiority of existing materials. It is not necessary, ^^^^^^^^^^^ According to which criterion? If the *total*, *overall* impact on the environment of using space-age materials (and remember Bucky's findings of 1936 for the Phelps Dodge Company), then use space-age materials. : nor even desirable to do this. Lets apply our technology to things that : could use the improvement rather than creating homes that are more and ^^^ Nooooooooo! Let us apply technology to things that impact the environment least. : more technologically out of the reach of an average owner, whatever that : average may be. Whatever happens, just about all technology is moving out of reach of the average owner. On the other hand, businesses serve technology ever closer to the customer, letting him benefit from it. Look at fit-while-you-wait car-mufler or tire-fitting centres. Also, they eliminate technology, by replacing it with other technology. Look at improved engine design, better engine-part machining, seals, and better lubricants and filters, toghether eliminating or at least very much reducing oil-changes for cars. -- Filip De Vos The idea that space travel is inherently enormously expensive is fraudulent. FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be John S. Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 03:11:08 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Filip De Vos Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium Subject: Re: JavaDomes etc. J. Michael Rowland (jmr@MANAGEMENT21.COM) wrote: : Yeah, sounds like a little bit o' heaven, doesn't it? Only with sand in your : underwear. : I'm interested in the Atlantis Project, too. Next to the Kentucky hills, I would ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What is that? Is it 'Oceania' http://www.oceania.org/ , or 'The Millenial Project' http://www.millennial.org/ , or something else again? Guess this belongs in a new thread. : be very interested in living in such a floating city scenario. From there, it's : not such a conceptual leap to one of Fuller's floating cloud-spheres. ...or a space colony. -- Filip De Vos The idea that space travel is inherently enormously expensive is fraudulent. FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be John S. Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 00:52:54 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: The Lorax Organization: pcOnline Internet Services Subject: Re: ...and paper covers rock... In-Reply-To: <0002830F.fc@management21.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 9 May 1997, J. Michael Rowland wrote: > James Fischer writes: > > Metal can also be fabricated into "I-Beams" and other > > fancy higher-strength/lower-mass shapes, where wood simply > > cannot be "trusted" to be knot-free, warp-free, and split > > free in such configurations that assume absolute uniformity > > of one square inch of material versus another. > > What about bamboo, assembled into octet trusses? > (And of course, I'm also thinking of good old Kentucky cane, actually a bamboo, > that never grows as big as oriental bamboos.) You've never heard of engineered lumber products I take it. They make wooden I-beams, trusses, and stressed skin panels from dimensional lumber and plywood or wafer board. St. Paul, Minnesota "Innovation and invention are what happen when someone makes a conscious effort to ignore accepted limits." -- Homesteader -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:41:34 +0200 Reply-To: ping2424@ping.be Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tognon Marco Organization: Geodesic Dome Structures Subject: Re: Domes in Europe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AstroBoy wrote: > > Hi list, > > I've only joined the list about two weeks ago, and i've been lurking a bit > since then, but now, i have a question: > > First of all, is anybody on this list actually in Europe, or are you all in > the US? > And secondly, i'm not going to build a house until within10 years or so, but > nevertheless i'd like to know if there are any European-based companies who > offer the same kind of domes and service like Oregon Domes, for example, or > if US-based companies of this type have branches in Europe? > And my third question: I've recieved a brochure from Oregon Domes, and it > was very interesting, but... do these domes conform to European building > standards, in other words, can i build one legally in Europe without being > in danger of getting in trouble with building councils, fire brigades, etc. ? > > --- > Toon "AstroBoy" Van de Putte (Dutch-speaking), vdputte@innet.be > kat design > Flanders > Belgium > EU > > Walhalla by kat design: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 > FUO homepage (under construction): http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9656 > > 'Do not teach a man a new way to think, rather give him a tool, the use of > which changes the way he thinks.' - Buckminster Fuller Hello daar, Is er dan toch nog iemand in Belgie die ook eens aan domes denkt... Wij zijn al enkele jaren bezig met het geodetische dome denken en langzaam aan komt er schot in. Wij kennen nu zowat iedereen die iets met domes te maken hebben, van California tot Praag via Ijsland en Italie. Na een "werk"bezoek aan verschillende fabrikanten in de US, zijn we nu druk doende met het ontwikkelen van een eigen model, parallel aan de traditionele 1 tot 6 Frequency Icosa en Octahedra... We kunnen er eens wat langer over schrijven, stuur een woordje terug. Groeten, Marco en Dirk (089 303381 / 089 843803) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 04:48:15 +1200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Cath Sheard Subject: Re: Action again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi - sounds great so far - does such a place exist in the States? Certainly does in NZ - wind is a big plus here! What about being reasonably close to some form of transport, ie rail or airport, for freighting goods and for people coming and going. I realize you travel much bigger distances than us without worrying as your countries so big so would, say, 3 hours by car be considered not too bad? Just a thought - not everyone has, or wants, a car. Cath > Okay, so here are things I'd like to start with: > > <> Enough wind to play with wind-generated power, both mechanical and > electrical ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:10:55 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "R.K. Treutlein" Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:01 9/05/97 -0700, you wrote: >As a footnote, I do not believe you can build a bigger dome than you can >build in steel. The largest plane that ever flew, the Spruce Goose, was >timber. How come the metal boys have never built one bigger? Perhaps - >just maybe - THEY CAN'T! The Spruce Goose was the biggest wooden airplane ever built.. It never really flew any better than the wright flyer, and probably no further. It was one of the biggest boondoggles out. As far as bigger ones are concerned, the Russkies and the Yanks have built bigger, in metal. Meanwhile, I agree with your views on timber as a building material. Rudi Treutlein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:52:45 +0100 Reply-To: mark@interedge.co.uk Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Barron Organization: Inter Edge Limited Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R.K. Treutlein wrote: > > At 10:01 9/05/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >As a footnote, I do not believe you can build a bigger dome than you can > >build in steel. The largest plane that ever flew, the Spruce Goose, was > >timber. How come the metal boys have never built one bigger? Perhaps - > >just maybe - THEY CAN'T! > The Spruce Goose was the biggest wooden airplane ever built.. It never > really flew any better than the wright flyer, and probably no further. It > was one of the biggest boondoggles out. As far as bigger ones are > concerned, the Russkies and the Yanks have built bigger, in metal. > Meanwhile, I agree with your views on timber as a building material. > > Rudi Treutlein Are you sure that you mean "boondoggles" and not boondoggies. I've always thought it was the latter. Perhaps somebody could confirm this for me. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:35:59 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: gregor markowitz Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Comments: To: mark@interedge.co.uk In-Reply-To: <3376E86D.53A0@interedge.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's boondoggle. Boondoggle: 1. A political committee, paid by tax-payers that is ultimately a waste of time, money and resources. 2. A clasp used to bind the neck-tie worn by boy scouts. 3. A pioneer term for something useful that has been concocted from seemingly useless parts. And the 'Spruce Goose' was built for a specific war-related reason. And what does this have to do with domes. Spruce would not be considered to be a dome building material. But there is a 'boondoggie' in Australia: Boondoggling Etymology: The term boondoggling began in the last century when the word 'boondoggle' was used to describe the plaited leather toggle made by boy scouts and worn around their necks. The word boondoggle has since been used as a verb to describe any completely useless diversion.... In 1996 the word was first coined in Melbourne to describe the modern office worker's extended chit chats via internal electronic mail, a particularly pleasant way to spend an afternoon, made all the more enjoyable by the fact that the more dedicated the boondoggler, the more productive they appeared to their superiors as they tapped (boon)doggedly away at their computer terminal in a frenzy of verbal exchange that characterizes the serious boondoggler. In fact, boondoggling has a keen following and studies have shown a direct correlation between the morale in a workplace and the propensity of their workers to boondoggle. Boondogglers affectionately refer to each other as boondoggie and, unlike your common computer nerd are more than happy to tear themselves away from their computer terminals to toddle off together to do some boongobbling . -gregor At 10:52 AM 5/12/97 +0100, Mark Barron wrote: >R.K. Treutlein wrote: >> >> At 10:01 9/05/97 -0700, you wrote: >> >> >As a footnote, I do not believe you can build a bigger dome than you can >> >build in steel. The largest plane that ever flew, the Spruce Goose, was >> >timber. How come the metal boys have never built one bigger? Perhaps - >> >just maybe - THEY CAN'T! >> The Spruce Goose was the biggest wooden airplane ever built.. It never >> really flew any better than the wright flyer, and probably no further. It >> was one of the biggest boondoggles out. As far as bigger ones are >> concerned, the Russkies and the Yanks have built bigger, in metal. >> Meanwhile, I agree with your views on timber as a building material. >> >> Rudi Treutlein >Are you sure that you mean "boondoggles" and not boondoggies. I've >always thought it was the latter. Perhaps somebody could confirm this >for me. > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:19:17 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: - Robert Dyksterhouse Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! John Rich, I am currently a proponent of finding alternative sources of building materials for housing (domes) such as aluminum, bamboo, fiberglass, etc. However, if I knew of a healthy, sustainably grown source for timber I would use it. I would like to see the predominently wood dominated dome building industry using timber from certified, sustainably grown sources. Perhaps some companies are already. I think this can be a big marketing key for many wood dome home builders and help to boost geodesic dome home buildings feasability. I know the Rainforest Alliances' SmartWood program has certified many such sources worldwide and in the U.S. Perhaps those interested in helping domes become even more of a sustainable choice for dome home builders should look into buying certified wood. For a list of sources in the U.S. contact: SmartWood Headquarters #1 Millet Street Goodwin-Baker Building Richmond, Vermont 05477 (802) 434-5491 fax: (802) 434-3116 email: rzd@smartwood.org Bob Dyksterhouse Rdykster@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 21:21:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Materials Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kirby said (flagged with ">:" ) >: While these materials sure are great for some applications, how is the >: average home owner/do it yourselfer going to chop a hole in thier wall >: and put in a window when wood gets to be such a rare material? This is a VERY good point in favor of less "high-tech" materials. "Home Improvement" by do-it-yourselfers is a major market in the (at least USA) economy. There are few "Do-It-Yourself" welders amongst the many who are capable of cutting, nailing, etc. (I have recently been informed that there are some very high-tech wood engineered products out there. I was not aware of some of them - I thought that micro-lam beams were the "state of the art" in this area. Wrong... I guess I should not consider wood to be at the bottom of the technology pile, but I do.) >: certainly not competent enough to cut through titanium, steel, concrete, And there are few consumer-level texts to teach these skills, when there are many to teach wood-frame, post-and-beam, and other wood-oriented skills. Filip De Vos said (flagged with ">" ) >Neither am I, but why would you want to be? Such repairs will be >sufficiently rare, that it makes sense to leave that to specialists >(probably a sub-division of the builders/livingry service). Learning to >repair a titanium frame as part of learning to live in a pillow-dome will >be a grand waste of time, since your skills will have rusted by the time >you need them. The subject here is not "repair", it is "modification". Let's say I decide I want skylights in my kitchen for example. There is nothing WRONG with my kitchen, I simply want skylights. If I want to do it myself, I can. If I want to hire a contractor, there are dozens in my local area who can bid the job. With non-wood framing, suddenly I have a lack of products and contractors. >The game is not to build structures the average Joe can repair, modify >or build, it is to build structures that do not need repair, or >modification, period. Hard to imagine. No two people/families have the same living requirements. Most folks end up force-fitting their lives into a structure (rather than having the luxury of designing a structure around the way they live), so they DO (over time) make modifications to the more grievous mis-matches between house and needs. As an example, I lived in my house for about 6 months before I built a single wall (except around the bath). The reason was that I like "open space", and I was not in the mood to build one interior wall more than I had to. After a few weeks, I laid masking tape where I thought I might want a wall or two, and "prototyped" the concept. After a decent "beta" period, up went the walls, one by one, only as required. >If the average Joe wants a bigger pillow-dome, he should order one, And do what with his existing investment in the one he has? Sell it? What about his land? Buy new land? Some people (myself included) are very happy with their land, and have paid high prices to do things like build driveways (nearly a mile in my case), bring in power and communications lines (nearly three miles in my case), and do other things that are not easy to amortize over less than a lifetime. >or buy an existing structure, like is done now with conventional >structures, or lease one from the livingry service. This sort of massive sea-change in the way the infrastructure works is exactly what dome-dreamers have been "waiting for". They will CONTINUE to wait, since there is no "livingry service", nor is one a viable business. If you want an "unusual" house, you must build it, pay for it, and own it. >: Also, while wood production has undoubtedly caused some severe >: environmental damage As compared to...? Ever seen a steel plant? Ever thought of how much electricity it takes to make a pound of aluminum? Nearly everything has an environmental "cost". The good news is that "tree farming" is one of the few areas where the "damage" is only visual if the cutting is well-planned and well-managed (and watched like hawks by the area forestry reps). Other material processes do much worse than cutting down a stand of trees (assuming that re-planting is part of the cutting). From amoebas to elephants, we're all just basic elements. Everyone is just compost in the end. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 22:10:46 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Comments: To: mark@interedge.co.uk In-Reply-To: <3376E86D.53A0@interedge.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that it is "boondoggle" -- I recall doing CCCraft shop things at camp that involved "knitting" and knoting lengths of plastic twine and we called it boondoggle. This fits with the interpretation of a big problem or mess as being a knot, a boondoggle. At least that what I got out of cccamp. Paul K ---------- > R.K. Treutlein wrote: > > > > At 10:01 9/05/97 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >As a footnote, I do not believe you can build a bigger dome than you can > > >build in steel. The largest plane that ever flew, the Spruce Goose, was > > >timber. How come the metal boys have never built one bigger? Perhaps - > > >just maybe - THEY CAN'T! > > The Spruce Goose was the biggest wooden airplane ever built.. It never > > really flew any better than the wright flyer, and probably no further. It > > was one of the biggest boondoggles out. As far as bigger ones are > > concerned, the Russkies and the Yanks have built bigger, in metal. > > Meanwhile, I agree with your views on timber as a building material. > > > > Rudi Treutlein > Are you sure that you mean "boondoggles" and not boondoggies. I've > always thought it was the latter. Perhaps somebody could confirm this > for me. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:04:18 +1200 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R.K. Treutlein wrote: > The Spruce Goose was the biggest wooden airplane ever built.. It never > really flew any better than the wright flyer, and probably no further. It > was one of the biggest boondoggles out. As far as bigger ones are > concerned, the Russkies and the Yanks have built bigger, in metal. > Meanwhile, I agree with your views on timber as a building material. > > Rudi Treutlein What metal planes have been bigger? Regards John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:09:04 +1200 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - Robert Dyksterhouse wrote: > > John Rich, > > I am currently a proponent of finding alternative sources of building > materials for housing (domes) such as aluminum, bamboo, fiberglass, etc. > However, if I knew of a healthy, sustainably grown source for timber I would > use it. We have large manmade forests in NZ - Pinus Radiata, which in its native California is a small scrubby coastal pine, which in our conditions grows to millable size in 25 years. This forest resource is extensive and self sustaining. We even export logs to Japan for pulp from this resource. Specify Kiwi-grown timber! Regards John Rich ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:03:46 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: Company Comparison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Filip De Vos wrote: > The game is not to build structures the average Joe can repair, modify > or build, it is to build structures that do not need repair, or > modification, period. If the average Joe wants a bigger pillow-dome, he > should order one, or buy an existing structure, like is done now with > conventional structures, or lease one from the livingry service. > Why is it not this? Why take the ability to change away? People don't seem to be able to live without making changes to something, and their home is very often the something that they change. -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:19:27 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the website below for some information about wood products made from traditional "waste" products: http://www.woodsource.com We incorporate many of these engineered woods into our designs. J. Michael Rowland wrote: > > I would like to see those parts of a tree that have traditionally been > considered "waste" by the lumber industry being used to assemble modular > building parts, like octet trusses. > > This is probably why I'm not living in a dome yet :-) -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:41:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: Results for Query: "Buckminster Fuller" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Results of Library of Congress "Buckminster Fuller" search: **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: kelp220.cruzio.com.Relayed.via.mail.server@rs6.loc.gov > To: joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > Subject: Results for Query: "Buckminster Fuller" > Date: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 12:49 PM > > > 119 Item(s) returned > > 1. Fuller projection Dymaxion globe > 1992 R. Buckminster Fuller and Shoji Sadao, cartographers ; population > data courtesy of World Game Institute ; cartographic services for > this edition provided by R.R. Donnelley & Sons Co., Lancaster, Pa. > Los Angeles, CA : Buckminster Fuller Institute, c1992. > LC: G3201.C82 1992 .F8 > > > 2. Fuller projection Dymaxion globe > 1992 R. Buckminster Fuller and Shoji Sadao, cartographers ; population > data courtesy of World Game Institute ; cartographic services for > this edition provided by R.R. Donnelley & Sons Co., Lancaster, Pa. > Los Angeles, CA : Buckminster Fuller Institute, c1992. > LC: G3171.C82 1992 .F8 > > > 3. [Dymaxion globe sculpture] > 1992 this is a Dymaxion globe designed by Buckminster Fuller, best > known as the inventor of the geodesic dome. > Santa Barbara, Calif. : Buckminster Fuller Institute, c1992. > LC: G3171.C82 1992 .F79 > > > 4. Dymaxion airocean world : the Raleigh edition of Fuller projection > 1954 R. Buckminster Fuller & Shoji Sadao, cartographers. > Raleigh, N.C. : Student Publications, School of Design ; Forest Hills, > N.Y. : Excel Co., c1954. > LC: G3201.C82 1954 .F81 > > > 5. R. Buckminster Fuller [sound recording]. > 1973 Fuller, R. Buckminster(Richard Buckminster),1895- > St. Paul, MN : Minnesota Public Radio, [1973?] > LC: BD511 > > > 6. Buckminster Fuller--geodesic man. [Filmstrip]. > 1977 Aids of Cape Cod, inc. > South Yarmouth, Mass. : Aids of Cape Cod, 1977. > LC: TA140 Dewey: 620.092 > > > 7. Buckminster Fuller [sound recording] : Louis B. Leakey Foundation, > March 20, 1973, Los Angeles. > 1974 Fuller, R. Buckminster(Richard Buckminster),1895- > [United States?] : R.B. Fuller, p1974. > LC: RYB 2763-2764 > > > 8. R. Buckminster Fuller. > 1962 McHale, John. > New York, G. Braziller, 1962. > LC: NA737.F8 M2 > > > 9. Buckminster Fuller Institute newsletter. > 1983 Buckminster Fuller Institute. > Phila., PA : The Institute, 1983- > > > 10. The world of Buckminster Fuller > 1997 a Film by Robert Snyder [Undetermined] > > LC: VAE 9846 (viewing copy) > > > 11. BuckyWorks : Buckminster Fuller's ideas for today > 1996 J. Baldwin. > New York : John Wiley, c1996. > LC: TA140.F9 B35 1996 Dewey: 620/.0092 > > > 12. R. Buckminster Fuller thinks aloud, part 1 [sound recording]. > 1967 Fuller, R. Buckminster(Richard Buckminster),1895- > Cambridge, Mass. : Credo, [1967] > LC: Credo 2 > > > 13. [Fuller projection Dymaxion globe > 1993 R. Buckminster Fuller and Shoji Sadao, cartographers]. > [Los Angeles : Buckminster Fuller Institute, 1993?] > LC: G3171.C82 1993 .F8 > > > 14. Buckminster Fuller : inventions, twelve around one. > 1981 Fuller, R. Buckminster(Richard Buckminster),1895- > Cincinnati, Ohio (314 W. Fourth St., Cincinnati 45202) : Carl Solway > Gallery, c1981. > LC: TA153 .F84 1981 Dewey: 720/.92/4 > > > 15. Buckminster Fuller > 1990 Martin Pawley. > New York : Taplinger Pub. Co., c1990. > LC: TA140.F9 P38 1990b Dewey: 609.2 B > > > 16. Buckminster Fuller > 1990 Martin Pawley. > London : Trefoil Publications, 1990. > LC: TA140.F9 P38 1990 Dewey: 620/.0092 B > > > 17. Fuller projection Dymaxion air-ocean world > 1992 R. Buckminster Fuller and Shoji Sadao, cartographers ; > cartographic services for this edition provided by R.R. Donnelley & > Sons Co., Lancaster, PA. > Los Angeles, CA : Buckminster Fuller Institute, c1992. > LC: G3201.C82 1992 .F79 > > > 18. R. Buckminster Fuller, 1895-1983 > 1990 di Roberto Grimaldi. [Italian] > Roma : Officina, c1990. > LC: TA140.F9 G75 1990 Dewey: 620/.0092 B > > > 19. R. Buckminster Fuller [sound recording]. > 1977 Fuller, R. Buckminster(Richard Buckminster),1895- > Washington, D.C. : National Public Radio, p1977. > LC: TA140 > > > 20. Buckminster Fuller's universe : an appreciation > 1989 Lloyd Steven Sieden ; foreword by Norman Cousins. > New York : Plenum Press, c1989. > LC: T49.5 .S575 1989 Dewey: 620 > > > 21. Richard Buckminster Fuller : journal articles published, 1970-1986 > 1987 Mary Vance. > Monticello, Ill., USA : Vance Bibliographies, [1987] > LC: Z5851 .V363 1987 TA140 Dewey: 016.62 > > > 22. The dymaxion air-ocean world > 1967 R. Buckminster Fuller & Shoji Sadao, cartographers. > [S.l. : s.n.], c1967. > LC: G3201.B72 1967 .F8 > > > 23. The educational philosophy of R. Buckminster Fuller [microform] > 1985 by Alex Gerber, Jr. > 1985. > LC: Microfilm 86/947 (L) > > > 24. Bucky; a guided tour of Buckminster Fuller. > 1973 Kenner, Hugh. > New York, Morrow, 1973. > LC: TA140.F9 K46 Dewey: 620 B > > > 25. Trimtab bulletin : newsletter of the Buckminster Fuller Institute. > 198u Buckminster Fuller Institute. > [Los Angeles, CA] : The Institute, > > > 26. The Dymaxion world of Buckminster Fuller. > 1960 Marks, Robert W. > New York, Reinhold Pub. Corp. [1960] > LC: TA140.F9 M3 Dewey: 624.17 > > > 27. Richard Buckminster Fuller : a bibliography > 1980 Mary Vance. > Monticello, Ill. : Vance Bibliography, 1980. > LC: Z5851 .V36 TA140.F9 Dewey: 016.62 > > > 28. A Fuller explanation : the synergetic geometry of R. Buckminster > Fuller > 1987 Amy C. Edmondson. > Boston : Birkhauser, c1987. > LC: Q295 .E33 1987 Dewey: 003 > > > 29. Buckminster Fuller; at home in the universe. > 1974 Hatch, Alden,1898- > New York, Crown Publishers [1974] > LC: TA140.F9 H37 1974 Dewey: 620/.0092/4 B > > > 30. The Buckminster Fuller reader; > 1970 edited and introduced by James Meller. > London, Cape, 1970. > LC: TA140.F9 A25 1970 Dewey: 081 > > > 31. Buckminster Fuller to children of earth. > 1972 Text by R. Buckminster Fuller. Compiled and photographed by Cam > Smith. > Garden City, N.Y., Doubleday, 1972. > LC: PS3511.U6617 B8 Dewey: 818/.5/407 > > > 32. Synergetics dictionary : the mind of Buckminster Fuller : with an > introduction and appendices > 1986 compiled and edited by E.J. Applewhite. > New York : Garland, 1986. > LC: Q295 .F839 1986 Dewey: 003 > > > 33. R. Buckminster Fuller thinks out loud [sound recording]. > 1967 Fuller, R. Buckminster(Richard Buckminster),1895- > Chicago, Ill. : Society of Typographic Arts, 1967. > LC: Society of Typographic Arts 919S-7200 > > > 34. Richard Buckminster Fuller, architect : twenty years of journal > reviews > 1988 Dale E. Casper. > Monticello, Ill., USA : Vance Bibliographies, [1988] > LC: Z8318.27 .C37 1988 NA737.F8 Dewey: 016.72/092/4 > > > 35. Mind's eye of Richard Buckminster Fuller > 1974 by Donald W. Robertson. > New York : Vantage Press, [1974] > LC: TA140.F9 R56 Dewey: 620/.0092/4 B > > > 36. Wizard of the dome: R. Buckminster Fuller, designer for the future. > 1969 Rosen, Sidney. > Boston, Little, Brown [1969] > LC: TA140.F9 R6 Dewey: 620 B > > > 37. Cantata, for mezzo-soprano and string quartet on the Anglo-Saxon > Lord's prayer and selected writings of R. Buckminster Fuller. > 1974 Mann, John,1954- > [n. p., 1974] > LC: M2103.3.M27 C3 > > > 38. R. Buckminster Fuller : an autobiographical monologue/scenario > 1980 documented and edited by Robert Snyder. > New York : St. Martin's Press, c1980. > LC: TA140.F9 S64 Dewey: 620/.0092/4 B > > > 39. Cosmic fishing : an account of writing Synergetics with Buckminster > Fuller > 1977 by E. J. Applewhite. > New York : Macmillan, c1977. > LC: Q295 .A66 Dewey: 191 > > > 40. The Dymaxion world of Buckminster Fuller > 1973 [by] Robert Marks and R. Buckminster Fuller. > Garden City, N.Y., Anchor Books, 1973 [c1960] > LC: TA140.F9 M3 1973 Dewey: 624/.17 > > > 41. Pilot for Spaceship Earth : R. Buckminster Fuller, architect, > inventor, and poet > 1978 Athena V. Lord. > New York : Macmillan, c1978. > LC: T40.F86 L67 Dewey: 620/.0092/4 B 92 > > > 42. R. Buckminster Fuller on education > 1979 edited by Peter H. Wagschal and Robert D. Kahn. > Amherst : University of Massachusetts Press, 1979. > LC: LB885.F84 R2 Dewey: 370.1 > > > 43. Mind's eye of Richard Buckminster Fuller > 1983 by Donald W. Robertson. > New York : St. Martin's Press, [1983?], c1974. > LC: TA140.F9 R56 1983 Dewey: 620/.00092/4 B > > > 44. More with less : the future world of Buckminster Fuller > 1986 Nathan Aaseng. > Minneapolis : Lerner Publications, c1986. > LC: TA140.F9 A65 1986 Dewey: 620/.0092/4 B 92 > > > 45. The artifacts of R. Buckminster Fuller : a comprehensive collection of > his designs and drawings > 1985 edited with descriptions by James Ward, with a profile of R. > Buckminster Fuller by Calvin Tomkins. > New York : Garland, 1985, c1984. > LC: TA174 .F86 1985 Dewey: 620/.00425 > > > 46. Dymaxion airocean world : the Raleigh edition of Fuller projection > 1954 R. Buckminster Fuller & Shoji Sadao, cartographers. > Raleigh, N.C. : Student Publications, School of Design, North Carolina > State College, c1954. > LC: G3201.C82 1954 .F8 > > > 47. Buckminster Fuller > 1990 Robert R. Potter. > Englewood Cliffs, N.J. : Silver Burdett Press, c1990. > LC: TA140.F9 P68 1990 Dewey: 620/.0092 B 92 > > > 48. World game edition dymaxion sky-ocean map : the Fuller projection > 1979 Buckminster Fuller and Shoji Sadao, cartographers. > [S.l. : s.n.] ; Philadelphia : Fuller [distributor], c1979. > LC: G3201.C82 1979 .F8 > > > 49. R. Buckminster Fuller : a selected bibliography of references in the > D.H. Hill Library and the Design Library, North Carolina State > University > 1977 Gloria W. Close. > Monticello, Ill. : Council of Planning Librarians, 1977. > LC: Z5942 .C68 no. 1349 Z8318.27 TA140 Dewey: 016.3092/08 s 016.62 > > > 50. The Fuller dymaxion air-ocean world > 1967 R. Buckminster Fuller and Shoji Sadao, cartographers. > [S.l. : s.n.], c1967. > LC: G3201.C82 1967 .F8 > > > 51. I seem to be a verb. [Motion picture] > 1975 Fuller, Richard Buckminster,1895-I seem to be a verb. > > LC: TA140 Dewey: 923 > > > 52. Primer of the universe. [Motion picture] > 1973 University-at-Large Programs, inc. > > LC: TA140 Dewey: 926 > > > 53. Lecture to Harvard Law School Forum, 12/10/73 [sound recording] > 1974 Buckminster Fuller. > [United States?] : R.B. Fuller, p1974. > LC: RYB 2765 > > > 54. 23rd Annual University for Presidents, Hawaii, '73 [sound recording] > 1974 Buckminster Fuller. > [United States?] : R.B. Fuller, p1974. > LC: RYB 2766 > > > 55. Strategies for the future. [Motion picture] > 1974 Paul Feyling Productions. > > LC: HF5381 Dewey: 371.4 > > > 56. Expo '67 in construction. [Slide] > 1970 Robert Bryan. > Venice, Calif. : Environmental Communications, 1970. > LC: NA6750 Dewey: 725.0971 > > > 57. Breathing together: revolution of the electric family. [Motion > picture] > 1970 Morley Markson & Associates. > > LC: KF224.D37 Dewey: 345.7 > > > 58. This or else ... : a master plan for India's survival > 1974 by Dinshaw J. Dastur. > Bombay : Jaico Pub. House, 1974. > LC: HC435.2 .D334 Dewey: 338.954 > > > 59. Independent scholars [sound recording]. > 1982 Schelstrate, Barbara. > Washington, D.C. : National Public Radio, p1982. > LC: LC32 > > > 60. The Educational stopover. [Filmstrip] > 1976 Teaching Resources Films ; made by Cook Laboratories. > Mt. Kisco, N.Y. : Teaching Resources Films, 1976. > LC: LB885 Dewey: 370.19 > > > 61. Prime design/time design [sound recording] > 1986 Ornette Coleman. [ ] > Fort Worth, Tex. : Caravan of Dreams Productions, p1986. > LC: Caravan of Dreams Productions CDP85002 > > > 62. Building construction - geodesic dome [graphic]. > 1981 Fuller, R. Buckminster(Richard Buckminster),1895-artist. [ ] > > LC: Unprocessed item > > > 63. Modeling the universe. [Motion picture] > 1979 Masters & Masterworks Productions. > Santa Monica, Calif. : Pyramid Films, 1979, made 1978. > LC: TA658.2 Dewey: 501 > > > 64. Modeling the universe. [Videorecording] > 1979 Masters & Masterworks Productions. > Santa Monica, Calif. : Pyramid Films, 1979, made 1978. > LC: TA658.2 Dewey: 501 > > > 65. The Human scenario. [Filmstrip] > 1976 Teaching Resources Films ; made by Cook Laboratories. > Mt. Kisco, N.Y. : Teaching Resources Films, 1976. > LC: TA140 Dewey: 909.83 > > > Could not retrieve document 65
67. Synergetica journal : journal of applied synergetics and design > science > 1991 Buckminster Fuller Institute. > Los Angeles, CA : Institute, c1991- > Dewey: 720 > > > 68. Design drawings for an exhibition ("American Exposition") for the > United States Information Agency, Sokolniki Park, Moscow, U.S.S.R. > [graphic]. > 1959 Eames, Charles,designer. > 1959-1960. > LC: ADE - UNIT 2833 > > > 69. Camera three. Robert Snyder--Every man his own Medici > 1971 directed and produced by Merrill Brockway. > United States : CBS-TV, 1971-07-11. > LC: VAE 0659 (viewing copy) > > > 70. A man called Skeeter (and other business musings) > 1996 George M. Naimark ; foreword by R. Buckminster Fuller. > Norwalk, Conn. : Windhover Information, 1996. > LC: HD31 .N23 1996 > > > 71. Camera three. The future isn't what it used to be > 1970 directed and produced by Ralph Curtis ; writer, Stephan Chodorov. > > United States : CBS-TV, 1970-09-13. > LC: VAE 0212 (viewing copy) > > > Could not retrieve document 71
73. Cosmography : a posthumous scenario for the future of humanity > 1992 R. Buckminster Fuller ; adjuvant, Kiyoshi Kuromiya. > New York : Macmillan ; Toronto : Maxwell Macmillan Canada ; New York : > Maxwell Macmillan International, c1992. > LC: GA9 .F85 1992 Dewey: 113 > > > 74. Intuition > 1983 by R. Buckminster Fuller ; foreword by Norman Cousins. > San Luis Obispo, Calif. : Impact Publishers, 1983. > LC: PS3511.U6617 I5 1983 Dewey: 811/.54 > > > 75. Intuition > 1972 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller. > Garden City, N.Y., Doubleday, 1972. > LC: PS3511.U6617 I5 Dewey: 811/.5/4 > > > 76. Critical path > 1981 R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York : St. Martin's Press, c1981. > LC: CB428 .F85 1981 Dewey: 909.82 > > > 77. Critical path > 1981 R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York, N.Y. : St. Martin's Press, c1981. > LC: CB19 .F84 1981 Dewey: 909 > > > 78. Grunch of giants > 1983 Buckminster Fuller. > New York : St. Martin's Press, c1983. > LC: T14.5 .F93 1983 Dewey: 303.4/83 > > > 79. A sculptor's world. > 1968 Foreword by R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York, Harper & Row [1968] > LC: NB237.N6 F8 1968 Dewey: 730/.924 > > > 80. A sculptor's world; > 1968 foreword by R. Buckminster Fuller. > London, Thames & Hudson, 1967 [i.e. 1968] > LC: NB237.N6 F8 1968b Dewey: 730/.924 > > > 81. Operating manual for spaceship earth > 1969 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller. > [Carbondale, Southern Illinois University Press, 1969] > LC: T14 .F84 Dewey: 601 > > > 82. Generation of Narcissus. > 1971 With an introd. by R. Buckminster Fuller. > Boston, Little, Brown [1971] > LC: HQ796 .M257 1971 Dewey: 301.43/15/0973 > > > 83. Nine chains to the moon > 1973 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller. > London, Cape, 1973. > LC: CB151 .F8 1973 Dewey: 901.9 > > > 84. Inventions : > 1983 the patented works of R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York : St. Martin's Press, c1983. > LC: T223.C2 F84 1983 Dewey: 620/.00272 > > > 85. Industrialization in the building industry > 1980 Barry James Sullivan : foreword by Moshe Safdie ; introd. by R. > Buckminster Fuller. > New York : Van Nostrand Reinhold, c1980. > LC: TH1000 .S86 Dewey: 338.4/7/69397 > > > 86. Designing for people > 1974 by Henry Dreyfuss ; [foreword by R. Buckminster Fuller]. > New York : Grossman Publishers, 1974, c1967. > LC: TS171 .D73 1974 Dewey: 620.8 > > > 87. Expanded cinema. > 1970 Introd. by R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York, Dutton, 1970. > LC: PN1995.9.E96 Y6 Dewey: 791.43/023 > > > 88. Humans in universe > 1983 Buckminster Fuller, Anwar Dil. > New York : Mouton, c1983. > LC: TA140.F9 A36 1983 Dewey: 620/.0092/4 B > > > 89. Utopia or oblivion: the prospects for humanity > 1970 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller; with an introd. by Stephen Mullin. > London, Allen Lane, 1970. > LC: CB427 .F83 1970 Dewey: 901.94 > > > 90. What I am trying to do > 1968 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller. > London, Cape Goliard, 1968. > LC: T19 .F85 Dewey: 608.7 > > > 91. Pound, synergy, and the great design > 1977 Buckminster Fuller. > [Moscow : University of Idaho, c1977] > LC: T14.5 .F94 Dewey: 301.24/3 > > > 92. Out of this world : American space photography > 1977 Paul Dickson ; with a foreword by R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York : Delacorte Press, c1977. > LC: TR713 .D5 Dewey: 778.3/5 > > > 93. Utopia or oblivion: the prospects for humanity > 1972 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York, Overlook Press [1972, c1969] > LC: CB427 .F83 1969 Dewey: 901.94 > > > 94. Naga : cultural origins in Siam and the West Pacific > 1988 Sumet Jumsai ; with contributions by R. Buckminster Fuller. > Singapore ; New York : Oxford University Press, 1988. > LC: DS568 .S84 1988 Dewey: 959.3 > > > 95. I seem to be a verb, > 1970 by R. Buckminster Fuller, with Jerome Agel and Quentin Fiore. > New York, Bantam Books [1970] > LC: PS3511.U6617 I2 Dewey: 917.3/03/924 > > > 96. 4D time lock > 1972 [by] Buckminster Fuller. > Albuquerque, N.M., Lama Foundation [c1972] > LC: TA140.F9 A34 1972 Dewey: 728.3 > > > 97. Non-being and somethingness : selections from the comic strip Inside > Woody Allen > 1978 drawn by Stuart Hample ; with an introd. by R. Buckminster > Fuller. > New York : Random House, c1978. > LC: PN6728.I5 A4 Dewey: 741.5/973 > > > 98. Utopia or oblivion: the prospects for humanity > 1969 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller. > Toronto, New York, Bantam Books [1969] > LC: CB427 .F83 Dewey: 901.94 > > > 99. Bali, behind the mask > 1981 Ana Daniel ; with a foreword by R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York : Knopf : distributed by Random House, 1981. > LC: GV1703.I532 B343 1981 Dewey: 793.3/19598/6 > > > 100. Synergetics : explorations in the geometry of thinking > 1982 R. Buckminster Fuller in collaboration with E.J. Applewhite ; > preface and contribution by Arthur L. Loeb. > New York : Macmillan, 1982, c1975. > LC: Q295 .F84 1982 Dewey: 191 > > > 101. The nature of change [sound recording] > 1973 Buckminster Fuller. > St. Paul, MN : Minnesota Public Radio, [1973?] > LC: HM101 > > > 102. Design for the real world; human ecology and social change > 1972 [by] Victor Papanek. With an introd. by R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York, Pantheon Books [1972, c1971] > LC: TS171.4 .P37 1972 Dewey: 745.2 > > > 103. Three Mile Island : turning point > 1980 Bill Keisling ; intro., Buckminster Fuller ; foreword by Richard > Pollock ; afterword by Ernest J. Sternglass. > Seattle, Wash. : Veritas Books, c1980. > LC: TK1345.H37 K44 Dewey: 363.1/79 > > > 104. Tetrascroll : Goldilocks and the three bears : a cosmic fairy tale > 1982 by R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York, N.Y. : ULAE/St. Martin's Press, c1982. > LC: NE2312.F85 A4 1982 Dewey: 769.92/4 > > > 105. Synergetics 2 : explorations in the geometry of thinking > 1983 R. Buckminster Fuller, in collaboration with E.J. Applewhite. > New York : Macmillan ; London : Collier Macmillan, 1983, c1979. > LC: Q295 .F838 1983 Dewey: 191 > > > 106. Energy, earth, and everyone > 1980 by Medard Gabel, with the World Game Laboratory ; foreword by R. > Buckminster Fuller ; afterword by Stewart Brand. > New York : Anchor Press, 1980. > LC: TJ163.2 .G3 1980 Dewey: 333.7 > > > 107. A question of priorities; new strategies for our urbanized world > 1970 [by] Edward Higbee. With an introd. by R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York, Morrow, 1970. > LC: HN65 .H5 Dewey: 309.1/73 > > > 108. Uncommon sense : the life and thought of Ludwig von Bertalanffy > (1901-1972), father of general systems theory > 1983 Mark Davidson ; foreword by R. Buckminster Fuller ; introduction > by Kenneth E. Boulding. > Los Angeles : J.P. Tarcher ; Boston : Distributed by Houghton Mifflin > Co., c1983. > LC: Q143.B45 D38 1983 Dewey: 003/.092/4 B > > > 109. And it came to pass--not to stay > 1976 R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York : Macmillan, c1976. > LC: PS3511.U6617 A84 Dewey: 811/.5/4 > > > 110. Mindstyles, lifestyles : a comprehensive overview of today's > life-changing philosophies > 1976 by Nathaniel Lande ; introd., Hans Selye ; conclusion, R. > Buckminster Fuller ; col. ill., Corita Kent. > Los Angeles : Price/Stern/Sloan, c1976. > LC: BF637.S4 L33 Dewey: 158 > > > 111. A new learning environment > 1971 [by] Harold L. Cohen [and] James Filipczak. Forewords by R. > Buckminster Fuller [and] B. F. Skinner. > San Francisco, Jossey-Bass, 1971. > LC: HV9106.W32 N353 Dewey: 365/.9/753 > > > 112. Synergetics; explorations in the geometry of thinking > 1975 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller in collaboration with E. J. > Applewhite. Pref. and contribution by Arthur L. Loeb. > New York, Macmillan [1975-79] > LC: Q295 .F84 Dewey: 191 > > > 113. The world game: integrative resource utilization planning tool, > 1971 by R. Buckminster Fuller. > Carbondale, Ill., World Resources Inventory, Southern Illinois > University [1971] > LC: CB478 .F84 Dewey: 309.2 > > > 114. TM*: discovering inner energy and overcoming stress > 1975 [by] Harold H. Bloomfield, Michael Peter Cain [and] Dennis T. > Jaffe, in collaboration with Robert Bruce Kory. Foreword by Hans > Selye; introd. by R. Buckminster Fuller. > New York, Delacorte Press [1975] > LC: BL627 .B56 Dewey: 158/.1 > > > 115. TM* : discovering inner energy and overcoming stress > 1976 Harold H. Bloomfield, Michael Peter Cain, Dennis T. Jaffe, and > Robert B. Kory ; foreword by Hans Selye ; introd. by R. Buckminster > Fuller. > Boston : G. K. Hall, 1976, c1975. > LC: BL627 .B56 1976 Dewey: 158/.1 > > > 116. Energy, Earth, and everyone : a global energy strategy for spaceship > Earth > 1975 by Medard Gabel, with the World Game Workshop ; with a foreword > by R. Buckminster Fuller, and an afterword by Stewart Brand. > San Francisco : Straight Arrow Books ; [New York] : distributed by > Simon and Schuster, c1975. > LC: TJ163.2 .G3 Dewey: 333.7 > > > 117. Approaching the benign environment > 1970 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller, Eric A. Walker [and] James R. > Killian, Jr. Pref. by Taylor Littleton. > University, Ala., Published for Auburn University by University of > Alabama Press [1970] > LC: Q171 .F96 Dewey: 500 > > > 118. Earth, inc. > 1973 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller. > Garden City, N.Y., Anchor Press, 1973. > LC: CB430 .F84 1973 Dewey: 901.94 > > > 119. Approaching the benign enviroment > 1970 [by] R. Buckminster Fuller, Eric A. Walker [and] James R. > Killian, Jr. Pref. by Taylor Littleton. > [New York] Collier Books [1970] > LC: Q171 .F96 1970 Dewey: 500 > > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:43:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: Results for Query: "geodesic dome" Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Results of Library of Congress "geodesic dome" search: **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: kelp220.cruzio.com.Relayed.via.mail.server@rs6.loc.gov > To: joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > Subject: Results for Query: "geodesic dome" > Date: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 1:06 PM > > > 35 Item(s) returned > > 1. Dome. > 1988 > [Wheat Ridge, Colo. : Hoflin Pub., c1988- > LC: TH2170 .D635 Dewey: 728 > > > 2. Sulla geometria delle cupole reticolari > 1976 Aterino Aterini. [Italian] > Firenze : Uniedit, 1976. > LC: TA660.D6 A83 > > > 3. Engineering a new architecture > 1996 Tony Robbins ; foreword by Stuart Wrede. > New Haven : Yale University Press, c1996. > LC: TA658.2 .R63 1996 Dewey: 624.1/771 > > > 4. Sulla geometria delle cupole reticolari > 1978 Aterino Aterini. [Italian] > Firenze : Uniedit, 1978. > LC: TA660.D6 A83 1978 > > > 5. Lecture to Harvard Law School Forum, 12/10/73 [sound recording] > 1974 Buckminster Fuller. > [United States?] : R.B. Fuller, p1974. > LC: RYB 2765 > > > 6. Timber geodesic domes > 1983 by John Rich. > Auckland, N.Z. : Akron Consolidated, c1983. > LC: TH2170 .R33 1983 Dewey: 690/.146 > > > 7. Geodesiske domer : konstruktive problem ved 4-frekvens, alternate > breakdown geodesiske domer > 1975 Dag Andersson. [Norwegian] > Oslo : Arkitekthogskolen i Oslo, 1975. > LC: TH2170 .A53 1975 > > > 8. Romgeometri og tettpakkingssystemer > 1972 O.I. Bording. [Norwegian] > Oslo : Arkitekthogskolen i Oslo, 1972 (1980 printing) > LC: NA7532 .B67 1972 > > > 9. Polyhedra : a visual approach > 1990 Anthony Pugh. > Palo Alto, CA : Dale Seymour Publications, c1990. > LC: QA491 .P83 1990 Dewey: 516/.15 > > > 10. Building construction - geodesic dome [graphic]. > 1981 Fuller, R. Buckminster(Richard Buckminster),1895-artist. [ ] > > LC: Unprocessed item > > > 11. Geometria poliedrelor si a retelelor > 1978 prof. univ. Adrian Gheorghiu, prof. univ. Virgil Dragomir. > [Romanian] > Bucuresti : Editura Tehnica, 1978- > LC: TA660.P73 G43 Dewey: 624/.171/0151623 > > > 12. The dome people. > 1974 Text by Ruth Howell. Photos. by Arline Strong. > New York, Atheneum, 1974. > LC: TH2170 .H68 1974 Dewey: 690 > > > 13. For women only [graphic]. > 1961 Rothstein, Arthur,1915- photographer. [|||] > 1961 Oct. 6. > LC: LOOK - Job 61-9546 > > > 14. Automatic generation of the geometry of geodesic domes, > 1966 by Rodolfo J. Aguilar. > Baton Rouge, Louisiana State University and Agricultural and > Mechanical College, 1966. > LC: TA7 .L6 no. 90 Dewey: 624/.177 > > > 15. [Dymaxion globe sculpture] > 1992 this is a Dymaxion globe designed by Buckminster Fuller, best > known as the inventor of the geodesic dome. > Santa Barbara, Calif. : Buckminster Fuller Institute, c1992. > LC: G3171.C82 1992 .F79 > > > 16. Geodesic structures, the shape of the future. [Motion picture] > 1979 Cathedralite Domes ; made by Bottom Line Productions. > Los Angeles : Modern Talking Picture Service, 1979. > LC: TA660.D6 Dewey: 721 > > > 17. Spherical models > 1979 Magnus J. Wenninger. > Cambridge [Eng.] ; New York : Cambridge University Press, 1979. > LC: QA491 .W43 Dewey: 516/.33 > > > 18. Berechnung dunnwandiger, rotationssymmetrischer, fadengewickelter > Innendruckbehalter nach der membrantheorie, > 1969 Zimmermann, Rolf, Dipl.-Ing. > Munchen, Zentralstelle fur Luft- fahrtdokumentation und -information > (ZLDI)] 1969- > LC: TL507 .D38 Nr. 69-83, etc. > > > 19. The Dome scrap book > 1981 Geodesic Services, Inc. > Dubuque, Iowa : Kendall/Hunt Pub. Co., c1981. > LC: NA7532 .D6 Dewey: 728.3/73/0223 > > > 20. An introduction to tensegrity > 1976 by Anthony Pugh. > Berkeley : University of California Press, c1976. > LC: TA660.D6 P83 1976b Dewey: 624/.1775 > > > 21. Geodesic math and how to use it > 1976 by Hugh Kenner. > Berkeley : University of California Press, c1976. > LC: TA660.D6 K46 Dewey: 516/.23 > > > 22. Polyhedra : a visual approach > 1976 by Anthony Pugh. > Berkeley : University of California Press, c1976. > LC: QA491 .P83 Dewey: 516/.15 > > > 23. Charas, the improbable dome builders. > 1973 Mottel, Syeus. > New York, Drake Publishers [1973] > LC: HN45.N4 M67 Dewey: 361.8 > > > 24. An introduction to tensegrity > 1976 by Anthony Pugh. > Berkeley : University of California Press, c1976. > LC: TA660.D6 P83 1976 Dewey: 624/.1775 > > > 25. Geodesic & geolatic domes & space structures : geometric design > methods > 1985 George W. Morgan. > San Jose, CA, U.S.A. : Sci-Tech Publications, c1985. > LC: TH2170 .M67 1985 Dewey: 624.1/7762 > > > 26. Great circles; or how to build your own dome home > 1972 [by] Rupert & Felicity Glover. > [Wellington, Alister Taylor Publisher, 1972] > LC: TH2170 .G55 Dewey: 690/.8/1 > > > 27. Dome builder's handbook no. 2 > 1978 William Yarnall ; with a directory of manufacturers / by Andrew > Ralph and William Yarnall. > Philadelphia : Running Press, c1978. > LC: TH2170 .Y37 Dewey: 690/.8 > > > 28. Building and using a solar-heated geodesic greenhouse > 1979 John Fontanetta, Al Heller ; [ill. by Robert Vogel ; photos. by > the authors]. > Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way Pub., c1979. > LC: SB416 .F66 Dewey: 690/.892 > > > 29. Dome houses and energy conservation : an introductory bibliography > 1983 [compiled by the] staff of the Bibliographic Research Library. > Monticello, Ill. : Vance Bibliographies, [1983] > LC: Z5944.U5 D65 1983 NA7205 Dewey: 016.7283/73 > > > 30. The passive solar dome greenhouse book > 1981 John Fontanetta, Al Heller. > Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way Pub., [1981] c1979. > LC: SB416 .F66 1981 Dewey: 690/.892 > > > 31. Domebook one[-two, > 1970 by Lloyd Kahn and others. > Los Gatos, Calif., Pacific Domes, 1970-71] > LC: TH2170 .D64 Dewey: 690/.1/46 > > > 32. Design drawings for an exhibition ("American Exposition") for the > United States Information Agency, Sokolniki Park, Moscow, U.S.S.R. > [graphic]. > 1959 Eames, Charles,designer. > 1959-1960. > LC: ADE - UNIT 2833 > > > 33. Geometric shapes. [Motion picture] > 1972 Ontario Educational Communications Authority. > Wilmette, Ill. : Films Inc., 1972, made 1971. > LC: QA447 Dewey: 516 > > > 34. Mathematical relationships. Geometric shapes [videorecording] > 1980 TVOntario. > Chapel Hill, NC : TVOntario, 1980, c1972. > LC: QA447 Dewey: 516 > > > 35. Camera three. The future isn't what it used to be > 1970 directed and produced by Ralph Curtis ; writer, Stephan Chodorov. > > United States : CBS-TV, 1970-09-13. > LC: VAE 0212 (viewing copy) > > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 06:36:55 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: nospam Organization: Duquesne University, Pittsburgh, PA Subject: Q: Tetra Space Coordinate System Can anyone recommend a URL or print document that describes the mathematics involved in working with a 4d tetrahedral coordinate system? Thanks! -- Note!!! To contact via email, substitute 'krusty' for 'nospam' as the user name. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:56:38 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jan Allbright Subject: back on the list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there! After a bit of ISP change I think all is now settled down and I would lik= e to get back on the list. Unfortunatly I have lost the subscription information 8( Help! Thanks! -br- Jan Allbright ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:53:51 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: comprhensive University Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi-\ check my Virtual Universtiy page, i have not even began building the infrastructure. the chemiest art page, science laws list, and money are oky connection. in the chemistry pae you can see moving compounds- very beautiful staff. there is another page which i must take off, and i am not sure of the space pages yet. Joe- i think you might like these groups which going to grow into comprhensive University-where you can learn about different areas in one go. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/9476 tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:00:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Thu May 15 00:00:05 PDT 1997. If you are tired of receiving this message twice per month, and are reading bit.listserv.fnord-l through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. (And you don't want to look like a jerk having everyone see your "SUB GEODESIC John Q. Public" command! ;^) ) This list is also linked to USENET in the group bit.listserv.geodesic If you want to receive copies of everything you send to the list, use the command SET GEODESIC REPRO. If you DON'T want copies, use SET GEODESIC NOREPRO. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC You should receive a confirmation note in the mail when you have been successfully removed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LIST ARCHIVES: - Reference.COM has begun archiving this list as of: Jan. 4, 1997 - Searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=GEODESIC@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu And of course, Listserv itself is keeping archives of the list, dating back to June, 1992. Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:29:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: Returned mail: ... unknown mailbox Menu.user in domain UBU.RUU.NL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com > Subject: Returned mail: ... unknown mailbox Menu.user in domain UBU.RUU.NL > Date: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 5:51 PM > > The original message was received at Thu, 15 May 1997 02:51:58 +0200 > from daemon@localhost > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 553 ... unknown mailbox Menu.user in domain UBU.RUU.NL > > ----- Original message follows ----- > > Return-Path: > Received: (from daemon@localhost) > by relay.cc.ruu.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA31936 > for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:51:58 +0200 > Received: from cruzio.com(165.227.254.2) by relay via smap (V1.3) > id sma032440; Thu May 15 02:51:34 1997 > Received: from kelp220.cruzio.com (kelp220.cruzio.com [165.227.218.220]) by cruzio.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA13493 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT) > Message-Id: <199705150052.RAA13493@cruzio.com> > From: "Joe S. Moore" > To: "tom Tagdi" > Subject: Re: comprehensive University > Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:49:21 -0700 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 > X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Tagdi, > > I'm surprised and impressed! You have your own web site! Great!! > If I can help in any way--let me know. I use Microsoft's "Front Page" web > page creation software. > > Check out my "links" section. You may find something you can use. I try > to cover ALL aspects of Bucky's work--not just domes or geometry. > > Welcome to the web page author club! > > Joe > > **************************************** > * Joe S. Moore > * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar > * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute > * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > **************************************** > > ---------- > > From: Menu user > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: comprhensive University > > Date: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 12:53 PM > > > > hi-\ > > check my Virtual Universtiy page, i have not even began building > > the infrastructure. the chemiest art page, science laws list, > > and money are oky connection. in the chemistry pae you can see > > moving compounds- very beautiful staff. there is another page > > which i must take off, and i am not sure of the space pages yet. > > > > Joe- > > i think you might like these groups which going to grow into > > comprhensive University-where you can learn about different > > areas in one go. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/9476 > > > > tagdi > > - > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:48:33 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Dome Raisings Comments: To: Holflin's dome list , domesteading@sculptors.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all: Here's our early list of open dome raisings scheduled for this summer. Please visit our web site for updated information on more dome raisings and current information on dates: May 31, Longview, WA June 7, Spokane, WA June 28, Beaver, UT July 5, Clitherall, MN July 12, Traverse City, MI TBA, Montecello, IN TBA, Seattle, WA TBA, Pulaski, VA TBA, Timber Valley, WA Sorry about the cross posting, but since there are now at least three lists operating, I wanted to reach you all. -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:37:43 -0600 Reply-To: jsawyer@idcomm.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jeff Sawyer Subject: SUBSCRIBE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to subscribe to this mailing list. Thanks Jeff Sawyer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:29:11 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Company Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >While these materials sure are great for some applications, how is the >average home owner/do it yourselfer going to chop a hole in thier wall >and put in a window when wood gets to be such a rare material? I'm >certainly not competent enough to cut through titanium, steel, concrete, >or even fiberglass with any sort of confidence that I'm not going to >irrepairably damage my building. How often do you chop a hole in your car to add a window? Different psychology. Home as dwelling machine. Maybe it's a matter of replacing a transparent pillow with an opaque one (or vice versa) in some makes and models. >My point is that if you want a building that only a technician can >repair, modify, or build, these materials are fine. If you want >something that the average Joe can repair, modify or build, you have to >build with wood. It is easy to insulate, easy to finish, easy to >modify, and so on and so on. I'm for having the basic model be set. If you don't like it, return it and get another. That's just my bias. Wood domes will be here for those that want the 'This Old House' life style. Myself, I don't want to dinker with the shell so much -- I'm more interested in the software that runs it, which I'll want to upgrade frequently and maybe write myself in some cases. Again, different lifestyle preferences. I'm not for driving wood businesses out of business by political mandate, but I sure am anxious to provide some alternatives for those of us who feel squeamish about felling so many trees. >Also, while wood production has undoubtedly caused some severe >environmental damage (I used to call myself a fisherman, but with the >damage done to salmon runs by, among other things, lumber harvesting, I >now have some nice fishing pole decorations), it remains easier on the >environment than steel production (I know nothing about titanium). > Depends if you mean mining or recycling. Most steel has already been minded. You can get it from junk yards, aluminum from already-used cans. >My very personal opinion is that some people want to engineer everything >to utilize space-age materials, without consideration of the damage, >waste, or the superiority of existing materials. It is not necessary, >nor even desirable to do this. Lets apply our technology to things that >could use the improvement rather than creating homes that are more and >more technologically out of the reach of an average owner, whatever that >average may be. > I'm talking easily affordable, possibly more usually by renting, so you don't get stuck trying to recycle the shell yourself (plus the vendors will have full time distribution affiliates that can redeliver your thing when you're done with it -- or salvage it, if you tried to chop too many windows). Anyway, I agree with you on intelligent application of resources. The housing I'm looking for can be swiftly assembled and, more important, disassembled, and in some cases picked up as a unit. I call them InfoPods. They come with web servers and hook to cell phone towers, and provide internet to local communities. The neighbors mostly live in traditional units (mud huts) but we have a spanking new community center (also a dome) that the village picked out of a catalog. If we can afford it, maybe we'll get an all wood Oregon Dome model. These may be luxuries though, affordable only to the rich, given what we're doing to the wood supply these days. Kirby >-- >Thanks, > >Nathan Burke, >Oregon Dome, Inc. > >E-mail: oregon@domes.com >Web: http://www.domes.com >Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 >Fax: (541) 689-9275 >Phone: (800) 572-8943 ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:31:40 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Company Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Menu user wrote: >kirby, > important letter you sent, sort of getting the hidden varible >out; mixing the element in synergetic paragraph. > >a subjective estimate of turning point toward high-standards would >be 2005-7 Fuller have missed it by 10 years or so. >in the mean time entropic world will rine. I think we may have missed the turning point. There was a window of opportunity there for awhile. People are scrambling now, but the situation has gotten much more dire in the mean time. I wish us luck of course and haven't given up. I just think we've overplayed our hand somewhat and nature is calling in the cards. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:41:18 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harmon Seaver Organization: Maddog Press Subject: Re: Company Comparison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Urner wrote: > > How often do you chop a hole in your car to add a window? > Different psychology. Home as dwelling machine. Maybe it's > a matter of replacing a transparent pillow with an opaque > one (or vice versa) in some makes and models. > Actually, plenty of people do just that -- or any number of other modifications to both body and running gear. Hackers Forever! -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net http://www.zebra.net/~hseaver ======================================================================= All is impermanent, but this too shall pass away, and the way of the Samurai is death -- so speak your mind now, or forever hold your peace. ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:46:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Company (Concept) Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kirby Urner asked (rhetorically) in support of the otherwise unsupportable concept of a house as a "no user-serviceable parts inside" consumer product: > How often do you chop a hole in your car to add a window? Kirby, I'm shocked - you have NEVER heard of an after-market Sun Roof conversion? If you lived in a place where the Sun appeared more than 2 days a month, (Kirby was last sighted in the Pacific Northwest for those of you who like to track Kirby and/or BigFoot...) you might have seen more of these fairly common things like the Sun and Sun Roofs. And it does not stop there (if we want to stomp upon the "treat you house like it was a car" metaphor until it is well and truly dead): Lowering the suspension Upgrading the shocks Adding thicker sway bars Flaring the wheel-wells Adding new wheels for wider tires Boring out the cylinders Porting the intakes Shaving the head Putting a set of Webber carbs in "Tuning" the exhaust Enhancing the interior with pieces of (yeech!) dead cow Changing the gear ratios Putting fuzzy dice on the rear-view mirror ...shall I go on? I thought not. (Note: I am just having fun here...] Don't be spineless - a spine is a terrible thing to waste. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:38:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: aagdii Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht, (ACCU) Subject: Re: Fw: Returned mail: ... unknown mailbox Menu.user in domain UBU.RUU.NL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Tagdi, > > > > I'm surprised and impressed! You have your own web site! Great!! > > If I can help in any way--let me know. I use Microsoft's "Front Page" > web > > page creation software. sure, i like to get help, but i dont know in what. i let you know later. i have a block to dealing with software. the geocities page making is almost atomatic, but to use outside sophisticated editing is beyond me at this moment. > > Check out my "links" section. You may find something you can use. I try > > to cover ALL aspects of Bucky's work--not just domes or geometry. i checked your page in the past, in the near future i will be into synergetics again, and then i shall be trafficing those page. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 10:11:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: aagdii Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht, (ACCU) Subject: earth acceleration, comprhensivity problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if you stretch your hands 180 with the sun, while you open your feet and observing the sun with the left eye. you will feel the earth moving- you sense this as vibration. the test for this is that everyone will feel the vibration, so it is not nervousness. also try it with the moon. in this case, you will feel no movemnet at all. without spin, the earth would be woubling, i got the idea from the smooth gun barrel not spining the bullet in the deuling gun of the past- which make the probabity less of contestants being shot at. ------------ a comprehensviest feels and thinks different than specialist- he is more confused than the speiclaist often than not. how does he think in dayily life, how he organize his affairs. how does he preceed with his learning program, his practical discoveres and operative testeing. these and other questions i quander about, before i think about a subject i find my mind going to another area. in short, i am bwildered. it may be helpful to excange experiences in this news-group. then we could have differnet models of how to deal with learning- more aptitude. as for myself, i am not doing well in learning with easy, mostly i am mixed up. there was a program in BBC this morrning-from the open University- about mangment. it was convayed in screen-act, though simple it covyed the meaning of change in a company and it gives a senario of what happens. it could in the same way be helpful to see other people way of copying with multifacited comprhensiv learning. sorry for the formality of my eamil- this morrning i dont know how to stated it in any other way. tagdi p.s if it was not for the VE, life would be total choas. i have the impression that Wired magazine propgate preplexed contradictory perspective. did you know that you can get some of thier staff for free on the net. it also stated somewhere that fuller domes are unlivable. which i find studpid to dismisse so ducily from so presumbly educated nefarious individulas. educational supers sometimes go overboard with incoherent analysis. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:34:54 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: earth acceleration (and wobbles) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" tagdi said: >without spin, the earth would be woubling Even WITH the spin, the planet still wobbles. The biggest wobble is called "precession" by astronomer-types. It is not much of a wobble, since it takes about 26,000 years for the northern celestial pole (presently situated near Ursae Minoris [or "Polaris"]) to turn around the pole of the ecliptic. As a result of this, the vernal equinox (the intersection of the ecliptic with the equator) regresses by about 0 degrees, 0 mins, 50 seconds per year along the ecliptic. BUT... that's not all... yes, there's MORE! The plane of the ecliptic ITSELF is not fixed in space. Due to gravitational attraction of the other planets upon the Earth (and perhaps the after-effects of concerts by the more popular and very loud rock-and-roll bands), the plane of the ecliptic slowly rotates around a "line of nodes" at a speed of about 0 deg 0 min 47 sec per century. This may seem like no big deal, but it is the reason why star catalogs and many astronomical texts make reference to the "Epoch" of time, and give DIFFERENT right ascensions and declinations for the same stars when considered in different "Epochs". The "Epochs" messed about with most often these days are 1900.0, 1950.0, and 2000.0 ...And there's STILL more! There is also the effect of "Nutation", which is a periodic oscillation of the rotational axis of the Earth around it's "mean" position. This is due mostly to the effect of the moon, so it changes much more quickly. The biggest component of this change has a period of 18.6 years, but some of the smaller components have periods of about 10 days! The "obliquity of the ecliptic" is the inclination of the Earth's axis of rotation (the mean angle between the equator and the ecliptic). The change in this value is very small, and very slow, but it does happen. 10,000 years ago, the angle was roughly 24 degrees 14 min 7 sec, and 10,000 years from now, the angle will be about 22 degrees 36 min 41 sec. The good news is that we are in the middle of a very stable period right now, so the change is both "nearly linear", and very small. There are also theories (but little hard proof) of massive and sudden changes that cannot be predicted by any of the effects listed above. Most of these are summed up under the banner "Pole Shift", and these speculations have been used to explain all sorts of events, from the Biblical flood of Noah to the death of the dinosaurs. To my knowledge, most of these effects can be ignored by folks who have not spent more on a telescope than a car would cost, but they are needed if one is trying to correlate very old astronomical data with modern data. In short, things are much more shaky that anyone suspects. Don't be spineless - a spine is a terrible thing to waste. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:45:34 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Cliff Steer Subject: Re: Company Comparison Kirby Urner wrote: > > How often do you chop a hole in your car to add a window? > Different psychology. Home as dwelling machine. Maybe it's > a matter of replacing a transparent pillow with an opaque > one (or vice versa) in some makes and models. > Just as a counter example, there is a significant aftermarket for sunroofs in various vechicles. But it isn't something that most of us would want to try ourselves. Metal is not an easy material to cut without a large amount of specialized equipment and a fair amount of skill (requires a bit of practice). A wood or plastic car would be a different story. Cliff Steer -----Original Message----- From: Harmon Seaver [SMTP:hseaver@ZEBRA.NET] Sent: Thursday, May 15, 1997 10:41 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Company Comparison Kirby Urner wrote: > > How often do you chop a hole in your car to add a window? > Different psychology. Home as dwelling machine. Maybe it's > a matter of replacing a transparent pillow with an opaque > one (or vice versa) in some makes and models. > Actually, plenty of people do just that -- or any number of other modifications to both body and running gear. Hackers Forever! -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net http://www.zebra.net/~hseaver ======================================================================= All is impermanent, but this too shall pass away, and the way of the Samurai is death -- so speak your mind now, or forever hold your peace. ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(CH5`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`8 (```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````=@`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````$QI`/9?`0```#8```!,:7-T(&9O2!#;VUP87)I`' ``0```!<```!213H@0V]M<&%N>2!#;VUP87)I`!X,`0````4` M``!33510`````!X`'PP!````#@```&-S=&5E M)P,`!Q"@!0``'@`($ $```!E````2TE20EE54DY%4E=23U1%.DA/5T]&5$5. M1$]93U5#2$]004A/3$5)3EE/55)#05)43T%$1$%724Y$3U<_1$E&1D5214Y4 M4%-90TA/3$]'64A/345!4T1714Q,24Y'34%#2$E.10`````"`0D0`0```&8% M``!B!0``]0@``$Q:1G6117J[=P`*`0,!]R "I /C`@!C@F@*P'-E=# @!Q.' M`H,`4 [V<')Q,@_V)GT*@ C((#L);S(U9C4"@ J!=6,`4 L#;!AI,S8!0 M@ M;F2!5!* $D"!WL0-@=&4Z"J(*@#X7I6@@2&\'X&\! 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M,5D@>P(P*V!B+_$P\7!R6V!S[P^ .O$* ML 0183*P3=%I,K\K@3*A;#,K@5G$!A!M"'#_"W KT@$`8S!EX&W!:( X`MMH MX%RD;5WA-*%W*V %L?\ML7,R7")=D%RSA4%GL&G5/WV_B9^*KXN_?I<(4'!Y M[T1!=Z K8$FE1F `2A1.9/U@`$QGH0" 7&!=03\0*?#O!1" 88_Q@+)P,;($ M`%G$WTHP"W +8 )@C_--9Z #8 =H@ & +:-54R0Q+/]($ _@?[%<<2GP`'!G ML(9C_PD`70`#(#C2+K!K\H@OEV]?F'^9CWXN6<02`0"<0 ```P`0$ `````# M`!$0``````,`@!#_____0 `',("P*V%```!`````0`````````>`$6 "" &``````# ````````1@`` M```XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<` #`()! ` end ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 16:00:38 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Company (Concept) Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > Kirby Urner asked (rhetorically) in support of the > otherwise unsupportable concept of a house as a > "no user-serviceable parts inside" consumer product: > >> How often do you chop a hole in your car to add a window? > > Kirby, I'm shocked - you have NEVER heard of an > after-market Sun Roof conversion? Not something I'd undertake on my own. Actually, the Detroit marketing gurus have taken to calling them 'moon roofs' of late -- sounds more luxurious and understated, even romantic. I wonder if there's a 'sun roof' to 'moon roof' conversion kit. Our Subaru has a moon roof by the way. We test drove it on a sunny day and the dealer claimed it had just been turned in, but hours ago (yeah, right). So when it finally rained, over a week later (!), we were chagrinned to discover the 'driver side flooding' feature. But ya know what, Thomason Subaru agreed to pay half the fixit costs, even though we used another shop and had already paid for this "as is" 1990 LS model. I thought that was a decent compromise, and the car really is a 'dream boat' (yeah, well, 'luxury cruisers' are kinda boaty). > > Lowering the suspension > Upgrading the shocks Not so far fetched. Some of my infopod models come on tripods. > Boring out the cylinders Sounds very boring indeed. > > ...shall I go on? > No. My point, as I'm sure your little noggin comprehended in a flash, was to compare the car's body (not engine, not mag wheels) to the shell of a dwelling unit, since the topic was 'metal' (shell = shield). Just imagine, for a moment, that we start marketing our dwellings with glowing ads talking about the robust 'fuselage' (the car marketers are forever trying to make us believe the driver is in some kind of 'cockpit' -- to the point of making up new instruments just to make the dash look properly 'busy' (just like in a real airplane kid!)). The psychology is: this is an aerospace 'piece of work' young cadet. You can program it, learn to maintain it, and even order after market accessories galore from online catalogs and install them yourself. But you may not, repeat not, think of this is as some "This Old House" on PBS and go after it with your home-alone carpentry tools from Builders Square (and don't try those old paints dad kepth in the basement either). That's apples and oranges kid. You're in the Big Time now. > I thought not. (Note: I am just having fun here...] > Yes, me too. I'm serious enough though -- we should have the prototypes making their TV debut real soon now. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 16:01:57 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Company Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harmon Seaver wrote: >Kirby Urner wrote: >> >> How often do you chop a hole in your car to add a window? >> Different psychology. Home as dwelling machine. Maybe it's >> a matter of replacing a transparent pillow with an opaque >> one (or vice versa) in some makes and models. >> > > Actually, plenty of people do just that -- or any number of other >modifications to both body and running gear. Hackers Forever! > Yeah, and lots of people know how to modify their airplanes too -- just take a look at what went on at Mena, Arkansas. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 16:22:52 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Visual atoms! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As many of you know, visual modeling of the atom went out of style around the time Heisenberg's uncertainty became vogue -- no picture of atomic innards could be verified in principle, so best to go with pure math, model-less equations and their probability curve approach. Well, there's still an argument for visual models, from a 'spatial data management' point of view, i.e. you want visual structures simply to keep the data in some compact, easy-to-use format, even if it's not 'true' in some literal sense (i.e. there's no such thing as photographing an atom and 'blowing it up' to 8.5" x 11" in any literal sense). This is where the art and mind of Ken Snelson comes into play. Snelson is an internationally recognized sculptor with a primary interest in structural physics. His 'floating compression' towers, needles, and more amorphic designs, are known around the world. What fewer people know is that Ken was for a long time the only non- corporate individual with a state-of-the-art Silicon Graphics workstation with Wavefront software. So years before most of the rest of us had a chance to learn the skills, Snelson was applying his already sophisticated sense of form and color to computer graphics -- with an eye towards rendering his Visual Atom in living color. >From a History of Science point of view, Ken's forays are of great interest, as they suggest an alternative reality wherein science never abandoned its visual fixations, so entrenched for thousands of years, before our own aconceptual era (centered around 'flying blind on instruments') got started. It's an alien reality, full of unfamiliar visuals. This is an Atom like none we've ever seen, yet hauntingly familiar. To tour Ken's Portrait of an Atom, go to http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/synergetica/dsctrains.html and board the Great Circler (the only train on line at the moment). You'll find the relevant station stop on the train's Schedule page. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 16:15:51 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Company (Concept) Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kirby said: >Yes, me too. I'm serious enough though -- we should have the >prototypes making their TV debut real soon now. Oh? Sounds like you have been holding back on the rest of us. What's going down? Who's "we"? Can I order one (as a a gazebo) in an under 20-foot diameter with a roof, but no walls? If there is to be a real commerical product, put me down on the list for one, but please schedule delivery before winter sets in. Don't be spineless - a spine is a terrible thing to waste. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 19:54:59 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Polyhedra creation software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, folks! I was curious if anyone out there knows of software that can be used to describe a 3D shape out of the component planes, and then print out the planes in such a way as to make it easy to assemble the shape from those individual planes. So far, I have not seen such a thing. It is quite possible I simply don't know where to look. Well, perhaps I spoke too soon. I did discover SymmeToy, but it is limited to 7 polyhedra of its' choosing. It doesn't do what I want. Anyone have data on such a product? I have TurboCad for Windows version 2.0 (old, I know) and it is simply miserable for even attempting to create the patterns with it. If you make a mistake, you pay heavily. I would like to create a 3D paper model of a geodesic sphere, but I am not good enough at drawing by hand to make it worthwhile. I have in the past constructed a BuckyBall and an 80 sided variation of one, but that was pretty simple due to using regular pentagons and hexagons, using Compugraphics Draw 2, since it supports regular polygons, with limitations that you specify diameter and centering on its terms. Wander Indiana: It's not just a license plate slogan, It's a way of life! Terre Haute, Indiana: The only place I know of where a 3 dollar bill will get you $5.00 worth of gas! E-mail: coolbear@earthlink.net web: http://home.earthlink.net/~coolbear ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:10:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dennis Johnson Organization: Natural Spaces Domes Subject: Polyhedra creation software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coolbear said >I was curious if anyone out there knows of software that can be used to >describe a 3D shape out of the component planes, and then print out the >planes in such a way as to make it easy to assemble the shape from those >individual planes. So far, I have not seen such a thing. It is quite >possible I simply don't know where to look. Check out "Sources of Geodesic Dome Model Kits" at www.dnaco.net/~michael/domes/models.html Also check out Guy Massicotte at www3.sympatico.ca/geodome/cadeau3.gif The later will give you the dome triangles laid flat for cutting out a paper model Ther ARE domes in Terre Haute, you know. Stay cool. djohnson@naturalspacesdomes.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 00:36:54 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. Comments: RFC822 error: Mail origin cannot be determined. Comments: RFC822 error: Original tag data was -> @ionet.net (skid) From: Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV administrator Organization: ioNET Subject: alt. forms of houseing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am interested in learning about alternate forms of housing. I live in Phoenix, AZ and am concerned about heating and cooling efficiency. I have looked into earth sheltered, straw bale and geo-dome mostly. I would like to hear from anyone that has more info on these from personal experiance. Thanx for any and all help. Skid Roe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 08:31:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Visual atoms! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote: >To tour Ken's Portrait of an Atom, go to >http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/synergetica/dsctrains.html >and board the Great Circler (the only train on >line at the moment). You'll find the relevant >station stop on the train's Schedule page. > >Kirby > Note to newsgroupies: I've removed the link to Ken's Portrait of an Atom from the above page. You'll find a direct link via: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/snelson/Portrait.html I apologize for any inconvenience. Thanks. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:00:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Polyhedra creation software Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I was curious if anyone out there knows of software that can be used to >describe a 3D shape out of the component planes, and then print out the >planes in such a way as to make it easy to assemble the shape from those >individual planes. So far, I have not seen such a thing. Microstation, by Bentley Systems. (www.bentley.com) It is not cheap, but it is less expensive trying to use CAD packages that do not do what you want. Microstation is the Cadillac product for CAD. If you are a student, you can order the same exact product (Microstation Educational Edition) at an extreme discount through most University bookstores. At this price, it is cheap. >I have TurboCad for Windows version 2.0 (old, I know) and it is simply >miserable for even attempting to create the patterns with it. Yeah, TurboCad is not a professional tool. >If you make a mistake, you pay heavily. I would like to create a >3D paper model of a geodesic sphere, but I am not good enough at drawing by >hand to make it worthwhile. OK, once you get Microstation: a) Create your object in a 3-D spatial template a1) Or use Rick Bono's "dome" software package to create a dome framework of your choosing, export in as an AutoCad DXF/DWG file, then import the DXF/DWG file into Microstation. Since AutoCad only understands surfaces, the object will be imported as a set of triangular surfaces rather than a wireframe, but the sizes and angles will be perfect (thanks to Rick). b) Zoom in and move one of the orthogonal views to be parallel to one "face" of the object. c) Print or plot that view to some standard scale, and go on to the next unique type of face. d) If you buy the Microstation Modeler add-on, you can use the "model attributes" features to define a "connector" at each strut junction that will allow you to "unfold" the shape into a flat "pattern". Print this out (in sections unless you have a large format printer/plotter) and cut and fold as needed. Bentley has a great tech-support line, and there are also two newsgroups that address the product: comp.cad.microstation (Addresses general use and applications) comp.cad.microstation.programmer (Addresses the c-like MDL language and the BASIC-like Microstation BASIC language for programming complex functions.) You may want to search the list archives on the subject of "models", as there have been many different approaches to modeling structures presented and discussed over the years. Most use sticks rather than paper, but they all produce fine models. Don't be spineless - a spine is a terrible thing to waste. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:07:46 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: alt. forms of houseing Skid Roe, You wrote: <> I have just finished building a 32' diameter earthcontact dome which has a straw filter over the perimeter drain. You will find finished photos along with construction photos at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/geodesic I will hopefully soon be adding a page called "lessons learned" in the near future. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 13:45:32 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harmon Seaver Organization: Maddog Press Subject: Re: Company Comparison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Urner wrote: > > Yeah, and lots of people know how to modify their airplanes > too -- just take a look at what went on at Mena, Arkansas. > I have absolutely no clue what went on at Mena -- but I do know that a great many people not only modify their airplanes, but indeed build them from scratch. Ever heard of the EAA? I used to belong -- lived in Oshkosh, in fact, for eight years and went to the big week-long EAA get-together every year, all the forums -- real high-tech stuff, and much0-mucho "modifications", hacks, customizations, hot-rodding, you name it. Let's face it -- you couldn't possibly design something that people aren't going to want to modify. Sure, maybe there's lots of unimaginative people out there who just drive the stock car, and live in the stock house and never change a thing. But for lot's of others, change is the name of the game. And it ain't at all hard to learn how to use cutting torchs and welders. Or soldering irons. -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net http://www.zebra.net/~hseaver ======================================================================= All is impermanent, but this too shall pass away, and the way of the Samurai is death -- so speak your mind now, or forever hold your peace. ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:57:38 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Company (Concept) Comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > Kirby said: > >>Yes, me too. I'm serious enough though -- we should have the >>prototypes making their TV debut real soon now. > > Oh? Sounds like you have been holding back on the > rest of us. What's going down? Who's "we"? Can I > order one (as a a gazebo) in an under 20-foot diameter > with a roof, but no walls? > I don't think so. "We" are people in my region supporting my Urner JavaDome proposal, aimed at making its debut at our local science museum, the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry (OMSI). The proposal has been in the public domain for many moons, is currently linked through my writings-on-file at ku_gall.html. I've picked out the piece of grass (circular, just outside the foyer, sort of over from the old submarine). When it appears, it will surely make at least the local news. I'll be sure to keep ya'll posted. > If there is to be a real commerical product, put me down > on the list for one, but please schedule delivery before > winter sets in. > I'm sure you'll be on the list (of which I'm not planning to be the keeper -- sounds like a boring job). > Don't be spineless - a spine is a terrible thing to waste. > Haven't been, that I can recall. Kirby ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:55:17 +0000 Reply-To: shadowland@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Ian Preston Organization: Shadowland Moving Picture Co. Subject: Re: alt. forms of houseing Comments: cc: Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Robert, I think you may have left the 'htm' off the end of your URL Regards, Ian Preston shadowland@sk.sympatico.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:59:34 +0000 Reply-To: shadowland@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Ian Preston Organization: Shadowland Moving Picture Co. Subject: Re: alt. forms of houseing Comments: cc: Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sorry that last message didn't get finished before it was sent: I believe Robert left the 'htm' off his last message about his 32 footer. This one works: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/geodesic.htm Regards, Ian Preston shadowland@sk.sympatico.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:25:16 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Dome ventilation Hi All Here's a technical question to all those thermo-dynamic buffs lurking on the list. I am still slaving away moulding the panels for my 2v fiber glass geodesic greenhouse. I've reached the point now, where I'd like to add ventilation holes to the top pentagon assembly. But the question is, how big do I make the ventilation holes? Is there perhaps a rule of thumb ratio between the volume of air trapped and the area of the ventilation openings required to achieve an optimum flow? The main requirement for ventilation, according to my reasoning, will be to avoid excessive heat build up during our summer months. (I suppose a lot depends on the prevailing climatic conditions, which I'm told compares very much with that of the San Francisco / Napa area.) Many commercial growing tunnels here have electrical forced ventilation systems, which I'd like to avoid. I am sure a simple, self regulating solution is possible. Any suggestions? Regards Dawie Venter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:17:48 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Odynski Organization: Your Organization Subject: anti-condensation coating MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII My company develops new or improved materials for mechanical & process systems insulation. One of our products is an anti-condensation coating called NO SWEAT-FX. It prevents condensation on surfaces such as window frames, cold pipes & ducts, concrete, etc. If interested, feel free to contact me. Thank you, Robert Odynski Robson Thermal Mfg. Ltd. Richmond, BC, Canada robo@ultranet.ca http://www.inc.com/users/Robson.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 19:15:57 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "R.K. Treutlein" Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:04 13/05/97 +1200, you wrote: >R.K. Treutlein wrote: > >> The Spruce Goose was the biggest wooden airplane ever built.. It never >> really flew any better than the wright flyer, and probably no further. It >> was one of the biggest boondoggles out. As far as bigger ones are >> concerned, the Russkies and the Yanks have built bigger, in metal. >> Meanwhile, I agree with your views on timber as a building material. >> >> Rudi Treutlein >What metal planes have been bigger? >Regards >John Antonov, Starlifter, and for a similar performance, as the Spruce Goose never got out of groundeffect, some of the Ekranoplans the russians built. Rudi T. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:38:09 GMT Reply-To: dpiskor@geodet.geof.hr Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Drazen Piskor Organization: Croatian Post & Telecommunications Subject: DTM shading in 3ds max Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a student of surveying at Faculty of geodesy, University of Zagreb, Croatia, working on graduation thesis. Thesis are about shading of DTM for purposes of large area maps. Since I don't have much experience in 3ds max I would appreciate to hear any advice or experience someone might have in these tasks. If there is anyone who has been working something like that I would be happy to hear from him. Please contact me at my email or leave a note on Newsgroup. Drazen Piskor < dpiskor@geodet.geof.hr > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:12:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: syn-l: fwd re: Global Economic Simulation Software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Ken G. Brown > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Subject: syn-l: fwd re: Global Economic Simulation Software > Date: Monday, May 19, 1997 8:26 PM > > Thought this might be of interest. > Ken > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 19 May 97 15:32:33 -0800 > From: EvangeList > To: "Macway" > Subject: PR - Global Economic Simulation > Message-ID: <199705192233.PAA25848@scv4.apple.com> > > This announcement is from: > > Eric Smith, > > Tarkvara Design wishes to announce the release of International Futures > version 1.0, a global simulation model now available on the Macintosh. > Many thanks to all the Evangelistas who participated in our beta-test > programme. > > International Futures (IFs) is a computer simulation of global systems > created by Barry Hughes of Denver University. Until now, IFs has only > been available on PCs. IFs can be used to teach about or study > demographics, economics, food, energy, the environment, and international > politics. IFs is a world model, representing the world in multiple > regions (the current version has 14 regions). It allows you to forecast > developments in demographics, food and agriculture, energy, economics, > politics, and the environment from 1992 to 2052. You will make multiple > forecasts based on changes in assumptions about the workings of the world > and about government policy choices. It is especially suitable for > analysis of sustainable development and for examining the human > dimensions of global change. > > Features: > - Simulation from 1992 to 2052 (unregistered version only goes to 2012). > - Agricultural, demographic, economic, energy, and political sub-models. > - Scriptable and recordable. > - PowerMac and 68k. > - Apple Guide help. > > Requires: > - AppleScript. > - ClarisWorks or Excel (for graphing). > > The software is released as shareware at a cost of $20/user or $100 for a > site licence, and can be downloaded from your local Info-Mac mirror. > Registering the software extends the period simulated to 2052, and allows > the user to save scenarios and modify more model parameters. > > For more information, send email to or visit our > web-site . > ________________ > Do you believe in Macintosh? Please check out: > > > Join the EvangeList mailing list by sending an email to: > . > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:43:20 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Strickland Subject: anti-condensation product Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I inadvertently deleted the company information for the No Sweat anti-condensation product. Could someone please send me the information or repost? Thanks. Robert Strickland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:46:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: the pyramid- training in weights- what is rong with you, you seem to be compressive numerical personage..what can i do i am stuck ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pyramid built out of 2,300,000 stones, each weights 2.5 tons. if built tensional it will weight 1% of its total bulk 2.3 million x 1%= 23,000 tons = to about 1/2 queen marry total weight tagdi web page in progress http://www.geocities.com/ Athens/Acropolis/9476 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:56:59 GMT Reply-To: dpiskor@geodet.geof.hr Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Drazen Piskor Organization: Croatian Post & Telecommunications Subject: DTM shading in 3ds max Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a student of surveying at Faculty of geodesy, University of Zagreb, Croatia, working on graduation thesis. Thesis are about shading of DTM for purposes of large area maps. Since I don't have much experience in 3ds max I would appreciate to hear any advice or experience someone might have in these tasks. If there is anyone who has been working something like that I would be happy to hear from him. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:46:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: the pyramid- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit made mistake the total weight of the pyramid equals 2.300,000 x 2.5 = 5.750,000 tons and 1% of that which equals the weight of tensional pyramid would be = 57,500 tons which just a bit heavier tha queen marry(50,000 ton) tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:15:35 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Dome Raisings Comments: To: Holflin's dome list , domesteading@sculptors.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, two more dome raisings coming up: May 31, Eugene, OR, 50' dome on 2' riser wall. Contact Bryce and Sandy Halonen of Alpine Domes at (541) 847-5545 if you'd like to attend. TBA, Sierra Vista, AZ, 50' dome on 1' riser wall. Contact Jonathan Beidelman of Domes Diversified at (520) 445-1212. Also, the Monticello, IN, dome raising has been set for May 31. Contact Mike and Donna McCormick at (219) 278-7152. -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 05:16:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Filip De Vos Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium Subject: Turning Point (was: Re: Company Comparison) Kirby Urner (pdx4d@teleport.com) wrote: : Menu user wrote: : >a subjective estimate of turning point toward high-standards would : >be 2005-7 Fuller have missed it by 10 years or so. : >in the mean time entropic world will rine. : I think we may have missed the turning point. There was a : window of opportunity there for awhile. People are scrambling Just curious as to what you think was the turning point (which you imply we missed)? : now, but the situation has gotten much more dire in the : mean time. I wish us luck of course and haven't given up. : I just think we've overplayed our hand somewhat and nature : is calling in the cards. When I look around I see a whole bunch of improvements compared to the eighties. For instance, no more Reagan Star Wars/'winnable' nuclear war, internet and other communications, airlines, increased trade, companies falling over themselves to provide all kinds of goods and services to about three billion people that have now suddenly entered the world economy (I know you dislike the word), while their governments let them (mostly and increasingly), ... -- Filip De Vos The idea that space travel is inherently enormously expensive is fraudulent. FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be John S. Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:20:14 -0000 Reply-To: garym@sos.on.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Subject: Re: Turning Point (was: Re: Company Comparison) In-Reply-To: (geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu) Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.95) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Just as Malthus had overlooked the great leaps in technology which invalidated his predictions, Bucky may have overlooked some which would modify his Turning Point. For example: Bucky believed we would live in places like Sauble Beach, but work in New York, so he designed a car to get us there (phase I of an aircraft, actually) ... he didn't see the Internet (I regularly work in Toronto and Ottawa) Another Example: Genetic Engineering (a quantum leap over the inanimate structural reorganization Fuller knew as 'innovation'). Where Bucky was right-on is in his assumption of First Class Evolution, his recognition that despite the pundits, despite the doomsayers, despite the worst tyrants and finest propaganda machines the world has ever known, things have, as a previous post noted, gotten better, and we have not (yet) perished. This is First Class Evolution. A recent journal report suggests "global warming" may not be the result of ozone depletion, an article in Nature last year asked if global climate changes might not be due to long-baseline changes in ocean currents (and therefore perfectly natural). We now have room-temperature superconductors, room-temperature CCDs, organic LEDs ... and the exponential expansion (+2) of knowledge continues unabated. Bucky suggested we, as a unit, do not act until the situation reaches the catastrophic point, until the wolf is at our door. Some of us plan, some research, some proclaim visions, but overall, the average person (which, globally, means a Chinese peasant) goes to work as normal until Nature forces a change ... and for over a million years, we have bound together and risen above each incident, but only when the incident occurs. It is important not to view world-views by great thinkers as dogma, as instructions to the letter. It is better to instead carry the spirit of their thought and insight --- it's more efficient that way. Gary Lawrence Murphy - TeleDynamics - (519)422-1150 f(519):422-2723 mailto:garym@sos.on.ca - http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7704 http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym - RR#1 7 Forest Pl Sauble Beach, Ont CAN ------------------------------------------------- Test the impossible ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 16:21:26 +0000 Reply-To: shadowland@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Ian Preston Organization: Shadowland Moving Picture Co. Subject: Garage dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I live in a 39' dome and am interested in building a garage. I would like it to 'fit' aesthetically with the existing house but have reservations about the practicality of a spherical design for this structure. For one thing, to get the required interior space would require a relatively large diameter. I suspect that a non-spherical design would be more practical. I am interested in hearing from those of you who have built geodesic garages either spherical or non-spherical. Do you have any recommendations or things to watch for etc.? Does anyone know of a source of information about super ellipsoidal geometry (a la Domebook 2, with chord factors, angles etc.)? That seems to be the most efficient way to go assuming reasonable cost and labour. I'd love to bring John Rich over (to Canada) for consultation, but that'll have to wait until after I win the lottery and purchase some land outside the city for a new house. I am also toying with the idea of including an enclosed loft on a second level. I'm not sure that it is practical though for this size of dome without putting it on a riser? Regards, Ian Preston shadowland@sk.sympatico.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 16:08:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: NEW ICOSA GLOBE MAP! Comments: To: DOMES _LIST , SYNERGETICS _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit U.S. National Geophysical Data Center / World Data Center A for MGG SURFACE OF THE EARTH ICOSAHEDRON GLOBE NGDC DATA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 95-NGDC-01 A Cut-out-and-Fold-up Model in Full Color Image created from topographic and bathymetric data available from NGDC The Icosahedron as a Map How do you make a flat sheet of paper into a representation of a spherical object? In particular, how do you make a flat map into a world globe? The ancient Greeks figured out that there were just a few solid objects that could be constructed from certain flat, regular polygons (equilateral triangle, square, or pentagon): tetrahedron (4 triangles), cube (6 squares), octahedron (8 triangles), dodecahedron (12 triangles or 12 pentagons), and icosahedron (20 triangles). With each increase in the number of faces, the regular-sized solid looks more spherical. With 20 faces, the Icosahedron is the best "flat" sphere available. Each face of the Icosahedron displays a part of the (nearly-spherical) Earth's surface as a flat map in the Gnomonic Projection, tangent at the centroid of the triangle. Folded so that adjacent triangles are joined exactly at their closest edges, the cut-out pattern forms the complete globe with the North and South Poles at opposite vertices. The relief of the continental surface and the sea floor is depicted by shaded colors representing the slope and elevation of the surface of the Earth. Overall size of an assembled globe is approximately 4.5 inches with each side of the individual triangles measuring 2.5 inches. As a class project or a decorative pendant, the Icosahedron Globe will be an amusing and informative exercise. By the way, getting tape on the inside of the last open seam is an exciting challenge to the dexterity of the globe-builder! We definitely advise against Super-Glue (two sided tape is a good choice). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please refer to product number 930A01005 when ordering. Check current product information for price and terms of payment. For more information about relief data and products available from NGDC, please try URL: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/global/global.html We offer posters, slide sets, and digital global relief data on CD-ROM. Please direct telephone inquiries and orders to: Robin R. Warnken, National Geophysical Data Center, NOAA/NGDC E/GC3, 325 Broadway, Boulder, CO 80303-3328, phone: 303-497-6338, fax: 303-497-6513, email: rwarnken@ngdc.noaa.gov For technical information on the "Icosahedron Globe", contact: Dr. Peter W. Sloss, National Geophysical Data Center, NOAA/NGDC E/GC3, 325 Broadway, Boulder, CO 80303-3328, phone: 303-497-6119, fax: 303-497-6513, email: psloss@ngdc.noaa.gov Revised: Fri Mar 14 16:37:24 1997 930A01005 Surface of the Earth, Icosahedron Globe •.50 each + appropriate shipping & handling. Announcement 95-NGDC-01. A 20-sided cut-out-and-fold-up model of the earth in full color. Great project for Earth Science classes. Available in classroom bulk rates. http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/announcements/announce_icosahedron.html **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:00:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: legal service, and health care Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1960 the share of legal services accounted for .6 of gross domestic product 1987 1.39 for 1.39 about 70-80 billion( jus to give a genral idea) giving that the total GNP is 7 trillion( last i heard somwhere ) this one percent serve as the greese for the capitalistic wheels. --- share of GNP of health care cost is 14% in 1995 ------------------------------------------------------ still i dont understand the diff between GNP and GDP tagdi refrence: The winner take all-society ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:14:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: NEW ICOSA GLOBE MAP! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i think this projection is rong-not sure though. the triangluar map have been discoveried befor Fuller, but in another way. that didnt take the accurate projection- i saw it in a book a year ago but didnt check it carefuly. tagdi p.s it took 2 years for Fuller to bring the continent closer to the vertices- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:34:25 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Re: Polyhedra creation software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 jfisher, You wrote: <<>I was curious if anyone out there knows of software that can be used t= o >describe a 3D shape out of the component planes, and then print out the >planes in such a way as to make it easy to assemble the shape from those= >individual planes. So far, I have not seen such a thing.>> I use CAD12. Take a junior college CAD course and you can purchase the program for around $250. The local college in my town charges $95 to tak= e the CAD12 course. I have two WEB pages with geodesics drawn in flat layo= ut planes. One of them comes with awning structures which can be used to connect multiple domes. The problem with the program is that when you convert the drawing format to a gif format you loose much of you definition. The URL's for my flat plane geodesics are: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/papermod.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/cut-outm.htm Later I hope to upload a cut out page with furniture and layouts to help with designing the interior of the dome. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:43:50 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "R.K. Treutlein" Subject: Re: Turning Point (was: Re: Company Comparison) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 21:20 24/05/97 -0000, you wrote: >A recent journal report suggests "global warming" may not be the result >of ozone depletion, Global warming and ozone depletion are not the same thing. Some of the gases involved in the "greenhouse Effect" are also involved in ozone depletion, but the two are different processes and have no effect on each other. Equating one with the other is a sign of ignorance. Rudi T. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:36:56 -0000 Reply-To: garym@sos.on.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Subject: Re: Turning Point (was: Re: Company Comparison) In-Reply-To: (geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu) Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.95) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII rt> At 21:20 24/05/97 -0000, you wrote: >> A recent journal report suggests "global warming" may not be >> the result of ozone depletion, rt> Global warming and ozone depletion are not the same thing. rt> Some of the gases involved in the "greenhouse Effect" are also rt> involved in ozone depletion, but the two are different rt> processes and have no effect on each other. Equating one with rt> the other is a sign of ignorance. If you prefer, let's just say global warming may not be happening from human causes, and it could even be our pollutants are moderating the warming effect, or the planet is accomodating both. My point is not whether one of us is more ignorant than another. The intention of my post was to answer the prior posting and to illustrate, as demonstrated above, (a) there are no absolutes in our knowledge of cause and effect (except in psych journals, but that is another rant) and (b) Nature has an agenda which takes precidence over the intentions of humanity. Gary Lawrence Murphy - TeleDynamics - (519)422-1150 f(519):422-2723 mailto:garym@sos.on.ca - http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7704 http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym - RR#1 7 Forest Pl Sauble Beach, Ont CAN ------------------------------------------------- Test the impossible ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:45:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Ultra Low Cost Housing URL Comments: To: GEODESIC@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Interesting URL: and click on 'Institute for Planetary Renewal', then 'Ultra Low-Cost Construction' to get to . Site Index: Natural Insulation -- basic protection from heat and cold. Structural Materials -- ferro-fiber cement, the basic structural material. Engineering Principles -- what is it that makes things strong? Design Ideas -- hexagonal domes. Form Building -- how to design and build low-cost forms. Steps of Construction -- putting it all together. Examples -- early stages of development. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:40:34 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Matthew M. Batchelor" Subject: Re: Dome Raisings Comments: To: "domesteading@sculptors.com" , "DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Whom . . . I really appreciate the info about the Dome raisings. I am hoping to hear about one close to my home in Houston Texas. If not, maybe I can get some cheap airfare with enough advance warning. Thanks again Matt e-mails: w = mmb@meyerinst.com (checked almost daily) h = mbatchelor@aol.com (checked weekly) ---------- From: Oregon Dome[SMTP:oregon@ordata.com] Sent: Friday, May 23, 1997 7:15 PM To: Holflin's dome list; domesteading@sculptors.com; bit.listserv.geodesic Subject: Dome Raisings OK, two more dome raisings coming up: May 31, Eugene, OR, 50' dome on 2' riser wall. Contact Bryce and Sandy Halonen of Alpine Domes at (541) 847-5545 if you'd like to attend. TBA, Sierra Vista, AZ, 50' dome on 1' riser wall. Contact Jonathan Beidelman of Domes Diversified at (520) 445-1212. Also, the Monticello, IN, dome raising has been set for May 31. Contact Mike and Donna McCormick at (219) 278-7152. -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:42:38 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: Dome Raisings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wish my notice could be a bit earlier. Every time I post real early, though, something comes up and I spend 1-2 days trying to contact all the people who want to attend to let them know it has been delayed. Matthew M. Batchelor wrote: > > To Whom . . . > > I really appreciate the info about the Dome raisings. > > I am hoping to hear about one close to my home in Houston > Texas. If not, maybe I can get some cheap airfare with enough > advance warning. > > Thanks again > > Matt > > e-mails: > w = mmb@meyerinst.com (checked almost daily) > h = mbatchelor@aol.com (checked weekly) > > ---------- > From: Oregon Dome[SMTP:oregon@ordata.com] > Sent: Friday, May 23, 1997 7:15 PM > To: Holflin's dome list; domesteading@sculptors.com; bit.listserv.geodesic > Subject: Dome Raisings > > OK, two more dome raisings coming up: > > May 31, Eugene, OR, 50' dome on 2' riser wall. Contact Bryce and Sandy > Halonen of Alpine Domes at (541) 847-5545 if you'd like to attend. > > TBA, Sierra Vista, AZ, 50' dome on 1' riser wall. Contact Jonathan > Beidelman of Domes Diversified at (520) 445-1212. > > Also, the Monticello, IN, dome raising has been set for May 31. Contact > Mike and Donna McCormick at (219) 278-7152. > -- > Thanks, > > Nathan Burke, > Oregon Dome, Inc. > > E-mail: oregon@domes.com > Web: http://www.domes.com > Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 > Fax: (541) 689-9275 > Phone: (800) 572-8943 -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:45:40 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: [Fwd: ] Comments: To: Holflin's dome list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5C3E7FB9221D" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5C3E7FB9221D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 --------------5C3E7FB9221D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.mymail.net (root@mail.mymail.net [206.124.90.4]) by cobra.ordata.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA18494 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:51:40 GMT Received: from netrepreneur.mymail.net (dfw73017.gte.net [206.124.73.17]) by mail.mymail.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00762 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 13:54:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:54:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705261854.NAA00762@mail.mymail.net> From: CAROL GASSNER To: "oregon@ordata.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: NetSafe Mail Light Version 1.0 Where are all the library books on Domes? I went to two separate book stores hoping for current material and didn't find one single thing on the subject!! I hate to be tied to the computer and can't take it to bed to read!! I do plan to hit the public library tomorrow to get additional information (I hope) on the subject. Anybody got any good titles that I can look up? Please post them. Am working on a budget so don't want to purchase any yet. I am more interested in the construction end of this not all of the complicated geometric stuff and theory. I just want a energy efficent, reasonably economic house! Carol Gassner chgassner@mymail.net --------------5C3E7FB9221D-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:17:06 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: The Lorax Organization: pcOnline Internet Services Subject: Re: Garage dome In-Reply-To: <199705242218.QAA25497@orion.sk.sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 24 May 1997, Ian Preston wrote: > I am interested in hearing from those of you who have built geodesic > garages either spherical or non-spherical. Do you have any > recommendations or things to watch for etc.? Does anyone know of a > source of information about super ellipsoidal geometry (a la Domebook > 2, with chord factors, angles etc.)? That seems to be the most > efficient way to go assuming reasonable cost and labour. I'd love to > bring John Rich over (to Canada) for consultation, but that'll have to > wait until after I win the lottery and purchase some land outside the > city for a new house. So far I've only built small table top models, mostly based on the tables in Domebook 2. I would also like to hear about anyone with experience with this as I am planning to build a 20' x 32' eliptical dome from plastic pannels as a garage myself. St. Paul, Minnesota "Innovation and invention are what happen when someone makes a conscious effort to ignore accepted limits." -- Homesteader -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:10:45 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Re: Garage dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Lorax, You wrote: << So far I've only built small table top models, mostly based on the= tables in Domebook 2. I would also like to hear about anyone with experience with this as I am planning to build a 20' x 32' eliptical dome= from plastic pannels as a garage myself.>> You can find a photo of a 32' earthcontact geodesic workshop that I just finished for myself. I have uploaded a paper model cut-out link so that you can build a minature model yourself. It has only 40 panels of two different types. It took me, using 2 jig sets, about 24 man-hours to fabricate the basic truss without sheathing. All the cuts are simple mit= er cuts. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/geodesic.htm= The material cost for the basic 32' dome truss without sheathing was approximately $1000. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:06:48 +1200 Reply-To: J.W.Rich@xtra.co.nz Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John William Rich Organization: Geodesics NZ Subject: Re: Timber Burns!!??! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RDykster@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-05-13 09:18:26 EDT, you write: > > << We have large manmade forests in NZ - Pinus Radiata, which in its native > California is a small scrubby coastal pine, which in our conditions > grows to millable size in 25 years. This forest resource is extensive > and self sustaining. We even export logs to Japan for pulp from this > resource. > Specify Kiwi-grown timber! > Regards > John Rich >> > > I realize there are more resources for timber now than ever before and yes, a > lot of them are what you call "self-sustaining" but how many of these sources > are practicing biologically, environmentally, and socially sustainable > silvicultural practices that help to secure and maintain the natural > ecosystems of these locations? To me Geodesic Domes represent an > alternative, energy-efficeint, low material input, common sense way of > building homes and living structures. If wood is considered the best > material then the Geodesic Dome Building community needs to take > responsibility in securing that this source of material is grown in an > environmentally sound fashion. If they don't then they join the ranks of the > rest of the typical housing industry in not taking responsibility for the > impact of the building materials they use and CHOOSE! > > Ask for certified wood when purchasing structural products for your dome. If > they cannot supply it then call the SmartWood program of the Rainforest > Alliance and they will supply a list of certified wood dealers in your area. > > The Dome industry has an opportunity NOW to make an impact in the sustainable > living and housing industry. > > SmartWood Program > #1 millet Street > Goodwin-Baker Building > Richmond, VT 05477 > (802) 434-5491 > > or > > Southeastern Forest Trust, Inc. > (352) 371-9663 > Hi Smartwood I'm interested in your Smartwood concept. It's a terrible dilemma, this choice of materials thing. It's like saying to your kids, "No, you can't have McDonalds - they are responsible for the depletion of the Amazon basin forests" or " No, we are not connecting to the power grid - they are responsible for damming the Clutha R. and destroying the Clyde catchment and also ruining Lake Manapouri to provide power for the Colmalco Aluminium Smelter at Bluff" or " No, we are not going to Disney Land because the jet we will fly in will damage the environment". Life is full of unpalatable options, which somehow seem better than their alternatives. We try to make our options more palatable, like choosing an alternative lifestyle (becoming a hippy or Amish or kibbutzim), like maintaining a consciousness and a conscience while we choose the alternative which seems better, like sending $5 to Greenpeace, like buying organic food etc etc. I believe choosing timber is a morally supportable thing to do, renewable resource, less energy input needed to get it to a usable form etc. The timber industry in NZ was based on raping the native forests. During the depression of the 1930's large tracts of the Central North Island volcanic plateau were planted with Pinus Radiata, pumice land, trace element defficient, covered in scrub, with remnant pockets of native forests in various states of evolution. As the Pinus Radiata came on stream in the 1950's the need to fell more native forests declined. In the mid-seventies I joined NZ's largest plywood manufacturer running a Research and Development Laboratory for Timber and Plywood Structures. I also joined the Native Forest Action Council which was pro-active in ending the milling of native forests in this country (we still have limited selective logging on a closely watched and carefully managed basis). I was involved in protest against my own employer where local timber workers blocked a public highway to prevent the protesters visiting a threatened forest. I believed in my work and the good it was doing. At the time 2% of the native timber milled in NZ ended up in a decorative use and half of that got painted. About the same percentage ended up in other legitmate uses, though it is interesting to note that with the advent of other materials the number of legitimate uses has declined (eg. the use of Kauri - Agathis Australis - in boat building). Incidentally, I'm also interested in the Treebank Trust which is working towards establishing gene banks of tree species from around the world in the isolation of NZ. I know the problems of monoculture and third generation acidity, but in my R&D position I was in contact with the Forest Research Institute - which was full of highly intelligent people who were not only sensitive about the environment but who recognised the long term problems and were starting to address them. Many of these people are now controlling the NZ forests. I believe an acceptable forestry practice regime is developing in NZ, funded by the compromises of the past. At least we saved the remaining native forests and raised public conciousness. Kids coming out of our schools today are much more aware of such issues than my generation. As far as the Geodesic Dome Community taking responsibility, perhaps it can - however I don't know that the geodesic dome industry is big enough - how many domes get built each year in the US? - 2-300?? In NZ, there is only me, I do 3-7 domes a year, in Australia maybe 8 per year (I do one of these). We are not what you would call a significant industry pressure group. And if we as an industry stood up and said, Yes, we all commit to only using timber grown in an environmentally acceptable manner, chances are that we are limiting our options to please our clients and increasing the costs to our clients. (Our clients are the ones who make the choices). Thus it becomes harder for us to compete in the house building industry and the Geodesic Dome Community goes into decline. I have a client in the permit phase of their project who has insisted on a non-toxic house - no urea formaldehydes, no CCA treatment, naturally durable species etc. It's a challenge and to meet my clients needs I may have to specify timber grown in a monoculture. I have faith in the trend of our society and culture - no-one even thought about this type of issue 30 years ago, and today the big businesses cannot build nuclear powerstations without huge public confrontation. The frontier attitude of "if it moves shoot it, if it doesn't chop it down" is changing now we are no longer frontiersmen. With regard to treatment of timber and timber products, there are some bad problems caused by the chemicals used, however, making a timber building which will have a long life - longer than the time it takes for replacement trees to grow - is a compromise which results in a plus in the environment/energy/pollution equation. And in the meantime the research goes on into alternatives (coconut derived quaternary ammonium compounds as an example) which in the near future will eliminate some of the negative part of the equation. Will we ever eliminate the support of the petro-chemical industry in transporting the timber from the forest to the dome? Is the power used by the mill generated from a nuke (there are no nukes in NZ)? What about the power used on site? And what went into the bridge you have to cross to get there? The public is the correct target - move them and you move everything else. And recent history shows that they can be moved. In the meantime I believe you have the moral support at least of many in this community. Regards John Rich ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 01:04:19 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: "I don't like it" /"Re: Turning Point (was: Re: Company Comparison) Comments: To: Gary Lawrence Murphy In-Reply-To: <19970524212014.226.qmail@maya.sos.on.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello LIST GROUP & Gary - - - John Belt here, Oswego, NY (JB in responses in your text below Gary) On Sat, 24 May 1997, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: Gary................ > Just as Malthus had overlooked the great leaps in technology which > invalidated his predictions, Bucky may have overlooked some which > would modify his Turning Point. JB................>... I do not think that Fuller overlooked all the points you mention in this post. "I don't like it" for rbf... Gary.................. > For example: Bucky believed we would live in places like Sauble Beach, > but work in New York, so he designed a car to get us there (phase I of > an aircraft, actually) ... he didn't see the Internet (I regularly work > in Toronto and Ottawa) JB.............> Fuller's ground taxing device was pure prototype since only three were developed. And with all of the time lag since there is still not much on the market to carry the number of passengers and obtain the gas mileage he achieved even now. Yet we say the technology has improved,--how so? It was unfortunate that the accident took place to allow the auto industry to capitalize on the bad publicity in a subversive manner at a loss to the consumers. We have a hard time changing paradigms. Many of the current "van, mini-van" auto forms are subtle but reverse forms of Fuller's "vehicle", I wonder if in a few years auto designers will discover his form and we will see the likeness of Fuller's at a time when we can accept his paradigm. Keep in mind what Fuller was trying to do, work in the future, for the future he really had no interest in making cars. He wanted to develop ideas and move on to other ideas-metaphysical to physical. Gary................. > an aircraft, actually) ... he didn't see the Internet (I regularly work > in Toronto and Ottawa) JB............. Please check out these passages in EDUCATION AUTOMATION, 1962 - Southern Illinois University Press, page numbers omitted since it has been reprinted so many times---but is between pages 38 and 42 in some of the copies I have. He may not have given the name internet yet the concept is clear. EDUCATION AUTOMATION, R.B. Fuller, 1962: I have talked to you abut solving problems by design competence instead of by political reform. It is possible to get one-to-one correspondence of action and reaction without political revolution, warfare, and reform. I find it possible today with very short electromagnetic waves to make small reflectors by which modulated signals can be beamed. After World War II, we began to beam our TV messages from city to city. One reason television didn't get going before World War II was because of the difficulty in distributing signals over long distances from central sources on long waves or mildly short waves. We were working on coaxial cables between cities, but during the war we found new short ranges of electromagnetic frequencies. We worked practically with very much higher frequencies, very much shorter wave lengths. We found that we could beam these short waves from city to city. Television programs are brought into the small city now by beam from a few big cities and then rebroadcast locally to the home sets. That is the existing TV distribution pattern. My invention finds it is now possible to utilize the local TV masts in any community in a new way. Going up to, say, two hundred, three hundred, or four hundred feet and looking down on a community you see the houses individually in the middle of their respective land plots. Therefor, with a few high masts having a number of tiny massers, lassers, or reflectors, each beam aimed accurately at a specific house, the entire community could be directly "hooked up" by beams, instead of being broadcast to. This means a great energy saving, for less than 1 per cent of the omnidirectionally broadcast pattern ever hits a receiving antenna. The beaming makes for very sharp, clear, frequency-modulated signals. In the beaming system, you also have a reflector at the house that picks up the signal. It corresponds directly to the one on the mast and is aimed right back to the specific beaming cup on the mast from which it is receiving. This means that with beam casting you are able to send individual messages to each of those houses. There is a direct, fixed, wireless connection, and actual direct linkage to individuals; and it works in both directions. Therefor, the receiving individual can beam back, "I don't like it." He may and can say "yes" or "no." This "yes" or "no" is the basis of a binary mathematical system, and immediately brings in the "language" of the modern electronic computers. With two-way TV, constant referendum of democracy will be manifest, and democracy will become the most practical form of industrial and space-age government by all people, for all people. It will be possible not only for an individual to say, "I don't like it," on his two-way TV but he can also beam-dial (without having to know mathematics), "I want number so and so." It is also possible with this kind of two-way TV linkage with individuals' homes to send out many different programs simultaneously; in fact, as many as there are two-way beamed-up receiving sets and programs. It would be possible to have large central storages of documentaries--great libraries. A child could call for a special program information locally over the TV set. With two-way TV we will develop selecting dials for the children which will not be primarily an alphabetical but a visual species and chronological category selecting device with secondary alphabetical subdivisions. The child will be able to call up any kind of information he wants about any subject and get his latest authoritative TV documentary, the production of which I have described to you. The answers to his questions and probings will be the best information that man has available up to that minute in history. END OF PASSAGE from ( EDUCATION AUTOMATION, Freeing the Scholar to Return to his studies) > Gary................. > Another Example: Genetic Engineering (a quantum leap over the inanimate > structural reorganization Fuller knew as 'innovation'). > > Where Bucky was right-on is in his assumption of First Class Evolution, > his recognition that despite the pundits, despite the doomsayers, despite > the worst tyrants and finest propaganda machines the world has ever known, > things have, as a previous post noted, gotten better, and we have not > (yet) perished. This is First Class Evolution. > > A recent journal report suggests "global warming" may not be the result > of ozone depletion, an article in Nature last year asked if global climate > changes might not be due to long-baseline changes in ocean currents (and > therefore perfectly natural). We now have room-temperature superconductors, > room-temperature CCDs, organic LEDs ... and the exponential expansion (+2) of > knowledge continues unabated. > > Bucky suggested we, as a unit, do not act until the situation reaches > the catastrophic point, until the wolf is at our door. Some of us plan, > some research, some proclaim visions, but overall, the average person > (which, globally, means a Chinese peasant) goes to work as normal until > Nature forces a change ... and for over a million years, we have bound > together and risen above each incident, but only when the incident occurs. > > It is important not to view world-views by great thinkers as dogma, as > instructions to the letter. It is better to instead carry the spirit > of their thought and insight --- it's more efficient that way. JB............>... I have no real problem with this, Fuller was human and he went totally on record to work for all humanity. Less is more / for ALL, with his spirit and others as well. Efficiency however taken alone and for its own sake can run amuck and not work for the good of all. If another person who influenced a very successful "car" for his people had worked for ALL humanity it would have been more humane and civil. Had he stuck with art and car design he would have been reveried by all. It seems that we need to work on being civil as much as efficient, and there are some signs that should cause us some concern on this topic "outhere". Two-way TV====INTERNET, as i see it. Peace to ALL, jb. > Gary Lawrence Murphy - TeleDynamics - (519)422-1150 f(519):422-2723 > mailto:garym@sos.on.ca - http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7704 > http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym - RR#1 7 Forest Pl Sauble Beach, Ont CAN > ------------------------------------------------- Test the impossible > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 05:33:45 -0000 Reply-To: garym@sos.on.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Subject: Re: "I don't like it" /"Re: Turning Point (was: Re: Co In-Reply-To: (belt@oswego.edu) Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.95) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII One small detail: How does 2-way TV reflect operating an Oshawa lathe from Nippising or performing micro-surgury in New Mexico from Nebraska? The idea for the dymaxion living machine, was in part to allow us to live anywhere, but still fly somewhere for work --- VR telepresence and telerobotics will allow us to fly anywhere without moving from our chair. 2-way TV only handles the audio/visual, but we now have tactile sense and control in 6 degrees of freedom, exactly as we do when live on the job, yet this can be done from Tokyo to Washington. BTW: Do you suppose it is an accident it's Ford's van which is the most reminiscent of a Dymaxion car going backwards? ;) Gary Lawrence Murphy - TeleDynamics - (519)422-1150 f(519):422-2723 mailto:garym@sos.on.ca - http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7704 http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym - RR#1 7 Forest Pl Sauble Beach, Ont CAN ------------------------------------------------- Test the impossible ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:33:18 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: Dome ventilation "Ernie Aiken" Wrote: > Hi. Have you thought about putting a standard roof turbine on top of your > dome? Hi Ernie. Thanks for your roof turbine suggestion. I've noticed that do-it-yourself roof turbine installation kits are being promoted by hardware stores here as well. I've had a close look at it, but the models being marketed here are much too big for my particular application. I think the idea can be adapted to something similar, but also looking a lot better at the same time. Let me explain. We certainly do not have a lack of wind in Cape Town. (That is one of the reasons for building my hothouse.) Most fireplace chimney ends here are equipped with a pivoted sheet metal covering, fitted with a vane which always points the cover assembly downwind. As the wind blows over the cover, its special shape forms a low pressure area at the chimney end. This effectively assist in drawing smoke from the stack. I am thinking of adapting this idea for my hothouse, by moulding a nice looking pivoted fiber glass cowl, and fitting it over the dome's ventilation opening. The suction thus created will supplement to expel the hot air rising naturally to the top of the dome. (Well that is the theory, anyhow.) BTW, I like your web site (http://www.applink.net/cpollard/wildlifemin.htm). Seriously thinking of creating my own site as well. Just one question though, what is the blue and orange covering material used on your garden dome (refer image # 1)? Redards Dawie (P.S. Thanks to all for response regarding the same topic). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:39:44 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DoctorData@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Turning Point (was: Re: Company Comparison) At 21:20 24/05/97 -0000, you wrote rt> Global warming and ozone depletion are not the same thing. rt> Some of the gases involved in the "greenhouse Effect" are also rt> involved in ozone depletion, but the two are different rt> processes and have no effect on each other. Equating one with rt> the other is a sign of ignorance. I daresay that at least a few of us who read these postings are ignorant of at least one or two things in the entire store of human knowledge. Perhaps the ability to think *is* a sign of ignorance. I offer this so that it might influence name-callers not to be ignorant of at least this one fact... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:04:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Timber Burns (Me Up!) Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John Rich said: >> We have large manmade forests in NZ... ...and RDykster@aol.com replied: > I realize there are more resources for timber now than ever before and > yes, a lot of them are what you call "self-sustaining" but how many of > these sources are practicing biologically, environmentally, and socially > sustainable silvicultural practices that help to secure and maintain the > natural ecosystems of these locations? Well, how many areas where ANY crop is cultivated have "maintained the natural ecosystem"? I would say NONE. The point that is important is that if re-planting and managing of "timber farms" is done correctly, what little old-growth forest remains can be left untouched. I have no doubt that even well-managed "wildlife preserves" (where the intent is to preserve the entire ecosystem) bear very little resemblance to the original ecosystem. Man is a meddler. I can state with authority that the Everglades in Florida (USA) have NOT been preserved, and the current attempts at "flood control" to protect the housing developments that now stand where I could canoe in total silence as recently as 1980 will result in disaster over the medium term. I can also state that the last "good" reef that I know of is ONE reef in the Dry Tortougas, islands 60 miles SW of Key West Florida. The only reason that these reefs are still "pretty good", rather than dead or dying is simple - most people do not have the ability to sail the distance and navigate the somewhat tricky channel, and fewer still wish to camp on the islands, where there is no fresh water. The full-time National Park Rangers are also a big help. As for the rest of the comments made, I can only add that for those of you with electric vacuum-cleaners, please remember the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, and realize that whenever you are making YOUR place clean, you are making somewhere else dirty. Everything is a trade-off. Nothing is avant-garde, since nothing claims to be "traditional" any more. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:48:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: Re: LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: DomeHome-H > To: Joe S. Moore > Subject: Re: Re: LIST > Date: Tuesday, May 27, 1997 9:11 PM > > No action was taken on your mail by this listserver. Your address is not > listed as a subscriber, and no commands were found in your message. > > > > MAILING LIST HELP FILE > > Please read the list guidelines (see below) before engaging in discussion. > In addition, familiarize yourself with how the list operates, especially if > you've never participated in an Internet email discussion group before. > It's a good idea to save this message somewhere so you know how to > unsubscribe. > > When dealing with a listserver, there are two types of messages, namely, > COMMANDS and POSTS. Unlike traditional listservers which require the > use of numerous email addresses, we have simplified the process by > allowing for both both COMMANDS and POSTS to be sent to the same address. > > COMMANDS > > These e-mail messages are intended to cause some action to occur, such as > subscribing the FROM address to a mailing list. Commands are usually one or > two word phrases which should be entered in the SUBJECT field of the message. > Any other fields are ignored... it doesn't matter what you put in them. > > The following commands are accepted: > > subscribe > adds your e-mail address to the list of subscribers > you will then receive all posts > you are then allowed to post from that address > > unsubscribe > removes your e-mail address from the list of subscribers > you will no longer receive any posts > you are no longer allowed to post > > subscribe digest > switches you to digest mode > you will then receive one message per day which lists all posts > to switch back, send a "subscribe" command > > digests > returns a list of digests for the past 30 days along with > instructions for retreiving them via e-mail > > help > this message will be returned > > > POSTS > > Email messages which don't match any commands are distributed to everyone on > the list. > Every time you post a message, hundreds of other people on the list receive a > copy, just as if you sent it to them personally. As a member of the list, you > will receive a copy of every message anyone else sends. On this list, only > members of the list can post to it. > > > > To correspond directly with a person, write to michael@dnaco.net > > > -------------------- Original Message Follows -------------------- > Carol, > > See my web pages below under "Links/Shelter/..." and "Selected Ideas of > BF/Icosahedra/..." If you can't find what you're looking for, let me know > and I'll dig deeper. > > Joe > > PS: I'm also forwarding your query to the DOME List. > > **************************************** > * Joe S. Moore > * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar > * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com > * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute > * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > **************************************** > > ---------- > > From: CAROL GASSNER > > To: joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM > > Subject: LIST > > Date: Tuesday, May 27, 1997 8:40 AM > > > > Mr. Moore, I was given your name as a man who would have > > some information on dome homes. I would love to have a list > > on the various subjects concerning them. I checked my local > > book stores and they didn't have ANY thing. Hopefully you > > can help me out here. > > My e-mail address is chgassner@mymail.net > > > > Thanking you in advance. Carol Gassner > > > > - > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:54:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Information please Comments: To: vicen Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Vic, Look in my web pages below under "Links/Shelter/Dome Manufacturers". I'm forwarding your question to the "DOME" and "GEODESIC" Lists. Let me know if you can't find what you're looking for. Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- From: vicen To: joemoore@cruzio.com Subject: Information please Date: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 1:32 PM I'm Vicenç Bagué from Barcelona (Spain). I wonder if you could give me some information about Dome Home´s importers, distributors, builders, or manufacturers in the European Community countries. Thank you very much. .- ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:56:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: Query Q001, 1 hit [REFCOM_ID:19970527195558.018559.905] Comments: To: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: User-Services@Reference.COM > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Query Q001, 1 hit [REFCOM_ID:19970527195558.018559.905] > Date: Tuesday, May 27, 1997 7:55 PM > > -------------------------------- > > REFCOM_ID:19970527195558.018559.905 > > For a user manual: User-Manual@Reference.COM > For human help: User-Services@Reference.COM > If you forgot your password: Forgot-Password@Reference.COM > > For further queries: Email-Queries@Reference.COM > With the following in the body: > First Identify yourself using: > USER joemoore@cruzio.com PASSWORD your_password > To see your user profile settings: > SHOW USER > To see your current queries: > SHOW QUERY > To deactivate this query: > DEACTIVATE QUERY Q001 > To delete this query: > DROP QUERY Q001 > To cancel your Reference.COM account: > DROP USER > > -------------------------------- > > This query brought to you by IGC > "A non-profit organization providing online and internet services to nonprofits." > http://www.igc.apc.org/igc/igcinfo.html > > Results: 1 hits [5/25/1997 to 5/31/1997] : 1 merged: 297402 scanned > Topics: misc | survivalism > Top Sources: misc.survivalism > Word Matches: BUCKMINSTER, GEODESIC > > > ##. Date Scr Subject Newsgroup/E-mail List Author > 1. May-25 78 Re: Was Homesteading misc.survivalism phil@nospam.philsmit > -------------------------------- > > Hit-Number: 1 > Article-ID: 05_1997&4937370 > Score: 78 > Subject: Re: Was Homesteading: Is Domes by Bella via Buckminster > From: phil@nospam.philsmith.org (Phil Smith) > Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:31:18 -0700 > Message-ID: <33888309.1220598@news.tiac.net> > Newsgroups: misc.survivalism > > > Joseph and Figen Tek-Puentes wrote: > > > > I fell in love with Geodesic Domes after reading about Bucky Fuller > >who invented "em and left the patents public domaine so anybody can build > > a dome. I did my own R+D, constructed a few models and designed my own > >variation which I call a geodesic Yurt. Take 25 poles, all of the same > >length with holes drilled perpendicular to the length at each end. These > >poles should be longer than 5 feet. Using a strong cord and something > >that can thread the cord thru the end holes, tie 5 poles together at one > >end. Take four poles and attach their ends to the end of one of the 5. > snip > > Cover the dome with a tarp or plastic and you have a geodesic tent! I > >have built at least eight domes now of materials as diverse as maple > >saplings, steel conduit, bamboo, PVC pipe, and broomsticks. The steel > >dome (anchored firmly) resisted hurricane force winds and was able to > >support the weight of a man easily. The dome I have made the most use of > >is of 8' bamboo poles and I cover it with a 30' diameter round pool > >cover. 8' poles give 10 feet of ceiling height and 17 feet across > snip > > [12 lines left ... full text available at ] > ---------------------------------- > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:09:46 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: - Robert Dyksterhouse Subject: Re: Timber Burns (Me Up!) In a message dated 97-05-27 21:32:35 EDT, James Fischer writes: << Well, how many areas where ANY crop is cultivated have "maintained the natural ecosystem"? I would say NONE. The point that is important is that if re-planting and managing of "timber farms" is done correctly, what little old-growth forest remains can be left untouched. I have no doubt that even well-managed "wildlife preserves" (where the intent is to preserve the entire ecosystem) bear very little resemblance to the original ecosystem. Man is a meddler. >> Thanks James Wether or not timber harvested areas of the world can be maintained in such a way as to plant, select and manage FOR the natural ecosystem, protect threatened or endangered species, repair natural watersheds (Everglades) and at the same time provide for a continual, long term, healthy and productive timber harvest is not an issue to be discussed in detail on this listserver. On the other hand, healthy living spaces are crucial to what this listsever is all about. And I think a healthy living space is one that not only takes into consideration the health of the structure itself but also the impact that structure has on the very source from which it was derived. Measures are being taken to TRY to undue mans meddling behaviors but it takes the efforts of all the little indians to reclaim what we know is a healthy and abundant world. After all, can't one vote make all the difference? I think so. Think Big. Didn't Bucky say something along the lines of "Doing more with Less" and that there were enough resources for us all if we just used what we had efficiently. Bucky saw our living challenges and said how do we provide for ourselves with what we have for the long haul. It's simple: REDUCE, REUSE and RECYCLE and then teach that to someone else. I don't live in a dome now, but I plan to one day and when that time comes I know that structure will be a lot healthier to me, not just becuase of it's minimized material imput or it's healthy air circulation but because the structure came from a location where someone cared enough to think about the health of the planet and my little dome. "Little measures bring big treasures" Bob Dyksterhouse ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:26:50 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bullywug@ATL1.AMERICA.NET Subject: Re: Garage dome In-Reply-To: <199705261811_MC2-174D-DAF@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >You can find a photo of a 32' earthcontact geodesic workshop that I just >finished for myself. I have uploaded a paper model cut-out link so that >you can build a minature model yourself. It has only 40 panels of two >different types. It took me, using 2 jig sets, about 24 man-hours to >fabricate the basic truss without sheathing. All the cuts are simple miter >cuts. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/geodesic.htm >The material cost for the basic 32' dome truss without sheathing was >approximately $1000. Bob Could you please give more details on the roofing material you chose for this project. You refer to it in your web page as 'Peal & Seal'. Is this a brand? Cost effective and simple roofing has been the major stumbling block to people accepting domes as homes. What is the life expectancy of this material? Cost? Ease of application? Thank you in advance for your reply. Brent. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ I seem to be a verb. -RBF bullywug@atl1.america.net ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:51:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Brant Subject: The Atlantic Monthly says we can all make it Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dear Friends, The June issue of The Atlantic Monthly contains a wonderful article by Mark Sagoff entitled "Do We Consume Too Much?" This article (unfortunately not yet available on www.theatlantic.com, which is still featuring the May issue) goes to the heart of Bucky's often stated belief that political forces are what are preventing the creation of a "world that works for everyone." Sagoff's article is full of fact about current resource usage, as well as many references to how technology continually enables us to do "more with less" (including mentioning Amory Lovins' work at the Rocky Mountain Institute). I felt as if Bucky's spirit must have been working through Sagoff as he wrote the article (even though Sagoff never mentioned Bucky's name). I encourage you all to read the article and, if you are so moved, to write a letter to the editor of The Atlantic Monthly, thanking them for publishing the article. Maybe we can get their readership to discover Bucky's work! - Steve Steven G. Brant, President Trimtab Management Systems "Charting new routes to the 21st Century" 81 Ocean Parkway, Suite 3H, Brooklyn, NY 11218-1754 USA (718) 972-0949 (voice) (718) 972-3465 (fax) sbrant@trimtab.com http://www.trimtab.com -------------------------------------------------- "Only integrity is going to count..." - R. Buckminster Fuller -------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:32:44 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Re: Garage dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Brent, You wrote: <> The Manufacturer supposedly has a WEB page but I have never checked on that. Their phone number is 800-882-roof. It is more expensive than conventional roofing and it is only guaranteed for 10 years. Since it is= easy to use and I did the job myself the premium paid for the material wa= s countered by not having to pay a roofer. It is easy to use but do not tr= y and use it under windy conditions. It becomes unmanageable to work with under moderate winds. The correct spelling is "Peel & Seal". The major problem with the product that I see is that it doesn't breath. I personally would like to be able to try the new lifetime quaranteed ceram= ic Canadian product, but they told me they are not set up yet to sell in the= US. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 01:05:28 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: SSN614@AOL.COM Subject: Geodesic Domes Comments: To: GEODESIC@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu I have an interest in the field of Geodesic domes. My Father even built one of the first five Geodesic Domes in Wyoming in 1975! The experience of builing a house from a kit is all too familiar. What I have in mind is a geodesic design that is a glorified greenhouse. The glass construction is photo responsive and can control the internal temperature by becoming IR energy reflective or collective by shifting it's shade from mirror to dark smoke. The individual windows can still be manually controlled by the dweller for either a unrestricted view to the outside or to complete mirror for maximum privacy. I am not an Architect or a structural Engineer. I submit this information freely. I believe I have a basic floor plan that minimizes the internal wiring and plumbing to a central utility core that can service the entire structure. A delusion of granduer is a dome large enough to cover a couple of acres and house a mesa verde style house surrounded by gardens. The elaborate gradens would make for a miniature Geosphere experiment that could keep up the air quality. If there are any sympathetic visionaries that would like to further explore this idea with me please E-Mail me! Thank You for your time! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:31:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James Fischer Subject: Re: "I don't like it" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Gary.................. >> For example: Bucky believed we would live in places like Sauble Beach, >> but work in New York, so he designed a car to get us there... >JB.............> Fuller's ground taxing device was pure prototype since >only three were developed. And with all of the time lag since there is >still not much on the market to carry the number of passengers and obtain >the gas mileage he achieved even now.... I not only use the usual suite of toys to "appear" at meetings all over the place without even putting on shoes, but I am also a member of a group that is working to restore a very simple and highly fuel-efficient method of allowing commuting from the very rural area (SW Virginia, USA) in which I live to the "big cities" of Richmond, VA and Washington DC, as well as points north. Trains. Plain old trains. Nothing fancy, no multi-billion dollar superconducting magnet-driven futuristic crapolla, just a plain old diesel engine and some cars with comfy seats. Why trains? Bucky's flying car, no matter how fuel-efficient, cannot compete with the miles per person per gallon of a train. Normal airline service is available from two airports nearby, but the cost (in simple dollars, not to mention the environmental and safety risks inherent in turbo-props and small "commuter jets") is simply too high. The idea is to work out the schedules to allow one train to run "inbound" towards DC, and one to run "outbound" both morning and night. Inbound trains would leave pretty early, since the idea is to deliver everyone to Union Station in DC by 8:00am. The outbound trains would not leave until after 5:30pm, to allow a "full day's work". On Saturday and Sunday, there are hopes for "specials" that would leave DC after 9:00pm for fun-seekers. The biggest problems are the cost of surveys to insure that there will be sufficient initial ridership (even though this never stopped AmTrack!), and the negotiations with the freight carriers who seem to forget who paid for the track and right-of-way, and want to think that they "own" it. The best part is that roughly 65% of the railroad stations along the planned route have been restored and turned into restaurants, shops, and whatnot. Not so bad for the passengers, since parking and a cup of coffee are a make-or-break issue to the success of the effort. One fun point is that diesel engines are not required. The transportation museum of Southwestern VA has a very large collection of restored and running steam engines, and a group of enthusiasts who maintain and run the engines for occasional "scenic ride" junkets through the mountains. It may well be that some trains will be pulled by retired engines, being driven by retired railroad engineers! The speed difference is not such a big deal, since the train will make many stops along the route, and has little chance of getting up to "top speed" between stops. Nothing is avant-garde, since nothing claims to be "traditional" any more. james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:47:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: syn-l: Jaime Snyder response to Dharmraj Comments: cc: DOMES _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: John Mac Cosham > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Subject: syn-l: Jaime Snyder response to Dharmraj > Date: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 3:38 PM > > Jaime replied to my email leter. The response is thus. > > >Thank you for your note regarding Synergetics. I have had read it and passed > >a copy of it to Lauren Darges to properly respond. She has been coordinating > >the Estate's publications work, and has specifically been researching the > >options for publication of Synergetics, via web, CD ROM and print. > > I was very glad to get a response. Will let you know what she writes to me. > > dharmraj > > swami dharmraj > aka John Mac Cosham > dharmraj@hedgehog.highway1.com.au > > "Anything man needs to do he can afford to do." R.Buckminster Fuller > > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:50:14 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: CAROL H GASSNER Subject: Re: Geodesic Domes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cool idea. i think a company called Biosphere does something very similar to this. They are also a multi level company and when a friend admires your house and buys one you make a small profit. Kind of neat, really. Carol At 01:05 AM 5/29/97 -0400, you wrote: >I have an interest in the field of Geodesic domes. My Father even built one >of the first five Geodesic Domes in Wyoming in 1975! The experience of >builing a house from a kit is all too familiar. What I have in mind is a >geodesic design that is a glorified greenhouse. The glass construction is >photo responsive and can control the internal temperature by becoming IR >energy reflective or collective by shifting it's shade from mirror to dark >smoke. The individual windows can still be manually controlled by the dweller >for either a unrestricted view to the outside or to complete mirror for >maximum privacy. I am not an Architect or a structural Engineer. I submit >this information freely. I believe I have a basic floor plan that minimizes >the internal wiring and plumbing to a central utility core that can service >the entire structure. A delusion of granduer is a dome large enough to cover >a couple of acres and house a mesa verde style house surrounded by gardens. >The elaborate gradens would make for a miniature Geosphere experiment that >could keep up the air quality. If there are any sympathetic visionaries that >would like to further explore this idea with me please E-Mail me! > >Thank You for your time! > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:52:53 +0000 Reply-To: shadowland@sk.sympatico.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Ian Preston Organization: Shadowland Moving Picture Co. Subject: Roofing material MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Robert Conroy wrote: > I personally would like to be able to try the new lifetime quaranteed > ceramic Canadian product, but they told me they are not set up yet > to sell in the US. Bob Can you tell me what that Canadian product is and where to find it. I'm interested in knowing how difficult it is to work with. Regards, Ian Preston shadowland@sk.sympatico.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:54:01 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: "I like it" &... In-Reply-To: <199705291034.KAA21053@virtuous.inmind.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII even though the message before said: "I don't like it", i really liked it. Here the point is that "The Medium is the Massage", (got it type correct this time "Wink" of "JustWink"-not going to get me again) and the point of the medium being the positive rub here/the technology rub of the Marshall McLuhan per some of the earlier discussions on the list. On Thu, 29 May 1997, James Fischer wrote: > >Gary.................. > >> For example: Bucky believed we would live in places like Sauble Beach, > >> but work in New York, so he designed a car to get us there... > > >JB.............> Fuller's ground taxiing device was pure prototype since > >only three were developed. And with all of the time lag since there is > >still not much on the market to carry the number of passengers and obtain > >the gas mileage he achieved even now.... > > JAMES.... I not only use the usual suite of toys to "appear" at meetings > all over the place without even putting on shoes, but I am also > a member of a group that is working to restore a very simple and > highly fuel-efficient method of allowing commuting from the > very rural area (SW Virginia, USA) in which I live to the "big cities" > of Richmond, VA and Washington DC, as well as points north. > > Trains. Plain old trains. Nothing fancy, no multi-billion dollar > superconducting magnet-driven futuristic crapolla, just a plain old > diesel engine and some cars with comfy seats. > > Why trains? Bucky's flying car, no matter how fuel-efficient, > cannot compete with the miles per person per gallon of a train. > Normal airline service is available from two airports nearby, but > the cost (in simple dollars, not to mention the environmental > and safety risks inherent in turbo-props and small "commuter jets") > is simply too high. > > The idea is to work out the schedules to allow one train to run > "inbound" towards DC, and one to run "outbound" both morning and > night. Inbound trains would leave pretty early, since the idea > is to deliver everyone to Union Station in DC by 8:00am. The > outbound trains would not leave until after 5:30pm, to allow > a "full day's work". On Saturday and Sunday, there are hopes > for "specials" that would leave DC after 9:00pm for fun-seekers. > > The biggest problems are the cost of surveys to insure that there > will be sufficient initial ridership (even though this never > stopped AmTrack!), and the negotiations with the freight carriers > who seem to forget who paid for the track and right-of-way, and > want to think that they "own" it. > > The best part is that roughly 65% of the railroad stations along > the planned route have been restored and turned into restaurants, > shops, and whatnot. Not so bad for the passengers, since parking > and a cup of coffee are a make-or-break issue to the success of > the effort. > > One fun point is that diesel engines are not required. The > transportation museum of Southwestern VA has a very large > collection of restored and running steam engines, and a group > of enthusiasts who maintain and run the engines for occasional > "scenic ride" junkets through the mountains. It may well be > that some trains will be pulled by retired engines, being driven > by retired railroad engineers! The speed difference is not such > a big deal, since the train will make many stops along the route, > and has little chance of getting up to "top speed" between stops. JB........> James, i thought you were an auto buff until now. i am interested in your groups efforts and would like details, would like to do one of the trips. Since 1979 i have owned a circa 1900 railroad station in Minetto, NY and have apartments in it for students in our technology program. Most of the students who live there are especially interested Fuller's work and design responsibility. It still has rail beside it so plan a trip. You make quite a jump however from the auto to trains on me in this post, but that is okay with me. Considering the size and weight of rail cars the amount of area of rail contact amounts to about the area of a dime per wheel, except in turns when the inside flanges of half of the wheels would also be in contact. I read or picked that up somewhere. Can you verify or correct that, as i am more of an architecture/depot buff than rolling stock. A group of railroaders have recently contacted me about parking a car or two at my station as they have more than they have room for at their location. If any list members are ever in this area in your travels i usually have a small studio space vacant for travelers who have genuine interest in Bucky's work and you can come by any mode of travel. People like James with their own trains are especially welcome. I think somewhere besides in EDUCATION AUTOMATION that Fuller discusses in more detail the use of "two way TV" besides education, however it seems to me to be much later than the 1962 book. Gary and i exchanged the same feeling via direct email after my post. Can someone recall anything where he discusses this in regard to work and direct control of equipment, or...??? PS: to James, i must admit that your interest in trains and supercolliding has me a bit concerned. don't forget which system you are using and why. take care everyone, jb > Nothing is avant-garde, since nothing claims to be "traditional" any more. > > james fischer jfischer@supercollider.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 04:26:53 -0000 Reply-To: garym@sos.on.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Subject: Re: "I like it" &... In-Reply-To: (geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu) Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.95) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hmmm ... at least you still have train tracks --- around here, they ripped them all up and converted the clearing into bike/hike/ski trails ... and also used the path to string optic fibre. Gary Lawrence Murphy - TeleDynamics - (519)422-1150 f(519):422-2723 mailto:garym@sos.on.ca - http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7704 http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym - RR#1 7 Forest Pl Sauble Beach, Ont CAN --------------------------------------- Don't oppose forces, use them ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:12:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Winner take all society Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if you read the winner take all society, you will understand why there will be no fundemantal change in the american society and there for the rest of the world in the next 10 years. ------------------------------------------------- Tom Brokwa was talking aboutthe fleesing of america, on the news, by few food stamp collectors-those who cant even eat- while he is making 2 million dollars a year. ---------------------------------------------------------------- tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:20:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: syn-l: scanning Synergetics 1 and 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- > From: Kirby Urner > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: syn-l: scanning Synergetics 1 and 2 > Date: Thursday, May 29, 1997 3:43 PM > > dharmraj -- > > When you scan, e.g. via Paintshop, you get a TIF or other > graphic file, like an actual photograph of the page > (coffee stains and marginalia also show up). Then you > feed the TIF to the character recognition software > (e.g. Cunieform) which recognizes typeface (but not > coffee stains) and processes the picture into a > corresponding document file, which may then be saved > for editing in a wordprocessor (e.g. Microsoft Word). > The TIF files are large. The wordprocessing files are > small (relatively). All of Synergetics 1 and 2 as > wordprocessed files (not as TIFs) should fit on a > reasonably sized hard drive, no problem. Just throw > the TIFs away once you're done converting it (i.e. > scan -> OCR -> toss -> scan -> OCR -> toss...). > > I've used the process above using Internet Arena's > facilities in downtown Portland, both on the "Inventions > Behind the Inventions" booklet (had lots of help with > the original printed version thanks to the BFI) and on > EJA's "The Naming of Buckminster Fullerene" (Chemical > Intelligencer, Springer-Verlag), both of which articles > now appear at Design Science Central c/o inetarena.com. > Saved scads of time over what retyping would have required. > > You can scan the Synergetics volumes for personal use > of course (I have scans of both 'Critical Path' and > 'Grunch of Giants', as well as several other works, > which makes excerpting passages for emails a breeze > -- Synergetics has such a tiny readership to date > that I can generally count on those with a serious > interest already having print copies -- so mostly > I just cite the passages by section number or page > -- no need to retype or cut and paste the text). > > A public domain version, on web or CDROM, should be run > through the BFI intranet however, as the two volumes need > to be collated and corrected, plus given an integrated > look and feel, plus internally hyperlinked. A lot of > this work has already been done in fact, including the > raw scanning -- or such is my understanding. Lots of > us have found errors and need to converge our lists. > Plus need the 2/3 + 1/3 puzzle pieces to fit together > (EBF + EJA) in order to a secure smooth reception by > those legalistic mindsets (some of our strongest world > game players fall into this category). > > Kirby > > At 06:34 AM 5/30/97 +0800, you wrote: > >I am part way towards having the hardware to scan Synergetics 1 and 2 > >myself. Have taken the 486 down to the computer shop for a cd-rom and > >sound card because the scanner I want uses software on a CD. > > > >Now I have a question about scanning. The salesman for the scanner I wish > >to purchase told > >me that the scanning process uses up a lot of hard drive. I had not > >anticipated this. What is the best way to scan and get the smallest > >digitized version possible? I remember Kirby posted a letter on this once, > >something about converting to Pearl . I will be proceeding regardless of > >size. > >If worse comes to worse I can get one of those special cartridge drives to > >store Synergetics on. > > > >dharmraj > > > >swami dharmraj > >aka John Mac Cosham > >dharmraj@hedgehog.highway1.com.au > > > >"Anything man needs to do he can afford to do." R.Buckminster Fuller > > .- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:51:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Bucky stuff Comments: To: dbuck44@silcon.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave, Thanks for pointing out my printing problem!! I had no idea. I'll fix all my pages ASAP. As I see it, people go through several stages regarding Bucky's ideas: First , for various reasons, they decide to explore his ideas. This involves acquiring the information. (My lists of books and articles by and about Bucky should help.) The next step is digesting his ideas. This stage may involve many years of study. (Hopefully, my series of pictures and articles along with the index and glossary will shorten this process.) Next is making the decision to do something about the problems around us. This involves finding out what needs to be done and if anyone is doing something about them. (My list of links should help determine what is and is not being worked on. Bucky encouraged non-duplication of efforts.) The final stage is deciding what to work on that is within one's capabilities and circumstances--money, talents, time, etc. (My web pages can't help here. That decision can only be made by each individual.) Keep in mind that Bucky pointed out that the bigger the problem, the more effective a person will be. In my case I'm using a medium with global reach--the Internet. And I usually try to carry on discussions in forums that are open to everyone--such as the newsgroup "Geodesic". How about posting a description of your strategy to the Geodesic List and/or the Geodesic Newsgroup? Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ---------- From: Dave Buck To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com Subject: Bucky stuff Date: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 12:59 PM Joe, Find your “Virtual Institute” very intriguing and helpful. An amazing amount of work has gone into it. Thank you very much. Tried to print Grand Strategy but the text printed too faint to read. Is that because of it being yellow on black? Any suggestions to print a readable copy? Would love to know if you are actively exposing others to this material (other than through the internet), and if so, how you are doing it. My exposure to Bucky has resulted in the pursuit and development of an extensive, comprehensive strategy that will provide the information, strategies, tools, and extensive support system, the natural consequence of which will find the world working for everyone, as Bucky clearly envisioned. (snip) Keep up the great work and I look forward to talking to you soon. Peace, Dave Buck .- ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:10:43 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DoctorData@AOL.COM Subject: Re: syn-l scanning Synergetics > At 06:34 AM 5/30/97 +0800, you wrote: > >I am part way towards having the hardware to scan Synergetics 1 and 2 > >myself... ...If worse comes to worse I can get one of those special cartridge >>drives to store Synergetics on. Omnipage OCR software (by Caere) will allow you to scan directly into word processor format. It seems to be pretty accurate, too, when the text is almost all the same size, as in a book. I'm sure many other OCR packages will work as well. Omnipage can be pretty expensive - $500.00. The route I took was: I got some barebones OCR software with my scanner, I upgraded for $30.00 or so to Omnipage lite through a special I saw in a computer software mail order catalogue. In the same catalogue was an $80.00 upgrade offer from Omnipage lite to Omnipage pro. I ordered it at the same time. As the clerk needed the S# of my lite version to send me the upgrade, he put my order on hold until the next day when I could read him the S# from the package he had just sent me. Regarding cartridge drives: Beware! They break! Of course, so does everything else, but when one of these drives breaks, the drive can then wipe out your data cartridge. From 12 years of performing data recovery for a living, I can recommend strongly to keep two copies of your data. Then, if one seems inaccessible, don't put the other one in! Try a blank in the drive first, to be sure it's not ruining cartridges. Have fun! -Steve BurgessGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:51:01 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DoctorData@AOL.COM Subject: Re Timber Burns (Me Up!) In a message dated 97-05-28 21:32:35 EDT, Bob Dyksterhouse writes: >Measures are being taken to TRY to undue mans meddling behaviors but it takes >the efforts of all the little indians to reclaim what we know is a healthy >and abundant world. After all, can't one vote make all the difference? I >think so. Think Big. >Didn't Bucky say something along the lines of "Doing more with Less" and >that there were enough resources for us all if we just used what we had >efficiently. >Bucky saw our living challenges and said how do we provide for ourselves with >what we have for the long haul. It's simple: REDUCE, REUSE and RECYCLE and >then teach that to someone else. There are a couple of subjects I'd like to touch in in response to this post. There's an interesting question here about man's meddling behavior. I don't remember where I read it, and I don't know quite how I feel about it, but, "Are the dams built by men for the purposes of men any less natural [or more meddlesome-sgb] than dams built by beavers for the purpose of beavers?" I'd like to see a response to this. Regarding doing more with less, and "REDUCE, REUSE and RECYCLE" ... In a sense, this is what molecular nanotechnology is all about. When we manufacture things from individual atoms...such as what are found in household dust and air...we should be able to increase our use and the availability of products and simultaneously use far fewer already existing macro natural resources. By "macro resources", I mean the ones that you can see and have to mine or manufacture in big factories with big machines and with big centralized bureaucracies. It's akin to having a community of friends build a dome from individual struts (or a barn from boards, or house from bricks) instead of trying to carve the same house or dome out of the side of a mountain or a cliff. And reuse should then be able to be complete-break it down into its atoms. Now that's recycling! Lots more about this by people who are doing something about it at www.foresight.org. -Steve Burgess "No matter where you go...there you are" -Buckaroo Banzai ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 15:26:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: INVENTORS HALL OF FAME MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everybody, Just out of curiosity, has anyone sent in a nomination for Fuller to the National Inventors Hall of Fame in Akron, Ohio? (Not to be confused with the Engineering & Science Hall of Fame in Dayton, Ohio, in which he was inducted on Oct. 15, 1982.) Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@bbs.cruzio.com * Bucky Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 15:43:32 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Harmon Seaver Organization: Maddog Press Subject: Re: Re Timber Burns (Me Up!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DoctorData@AOL.COM wrote: > "Are the dams built by men for the purposes of men any less natural [or more > meddlesome-sgb] than dams built by beavers for the purpose of beavers?" > I'd like to see a response to this. I, for one, think it would be very nice if we got rid of each and every dam that is bigger than what beavers would make. Most beaver ponds are only about the size of ciy lot. They generally contribute quite a bit to the local eco-system, increasing wetland habitat and water controls. Man-made dams, on the other hand, are almost always very destructive to large areas of habitat, destroy salmon and other migrating fish stocks, and destroy even the down-stream ecosystems by depriving them of their natural water levels, flood stages and water temperatures. The time has come to remove these monstrosities. -- Harmon Seaver hseaver@zebra.net http://www.zebra.net/~hseaver ======================================================================= All is impermanent, but this too shall pass away, and the way of the Samurai is death -- so speak your mind now, or forever hold your peace. ======================================================================= Copyright, Harmon F. Seaver, 1997. License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for US$1,000 per instance, or local equivalent. ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 13:13:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Menu user Organization: University Library Utrecht Subject: Re: Bucky stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good refocouse Joe, more to say about that later. also how to make the task more friendly and avoid making it a monsterously unvormidable. this i think is how we should approach synergetic-general- education. my failer has shown me few things that might be helpful to new ones. please check my web page, tell me what you think. my stratagey have not yet been implemented, it takes time. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/9476 i am in the process of building a general University, that might go virtual- remember that presidents of University were a sort of politicians who have to organize, and knew little about science, design, or anything else for that matter- so as pedantic from my part, still it is worthb the try . i have been thinking how to get the page popular- to get some of the t.v languring audiance to learn somthing. so, i thought i call it T.V University; so many names come to mine. in short how do you get your page to be know to the many sleeping Jarry's show typies. tagdi watch out for Introverted administrators-Bush was one. they think nothing rong with the insitutions- check my home page for personality types-each type explained in 2 pages.