From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Oct 11 17:21:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g9BLLimd019022 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:21:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200210112121.g9BLLimd019022@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 11147 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2002 21:21:45 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (listserv@128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 11 Oct 2002 21:21:45 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:21:30 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9902" To: Chris Fearnley Content-Length: 534241 Lines: 12738 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:29:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: The Kosovo Storyboard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MSM wroteth: As Jack (one flew over the coo coo nests or GENI) say's life is short but very wide. > Fine if you don't understand. Probably we'll never have time to > fully explain ourselves to one another. Life is short. > > Kirby > - - - - - > > <> Brian Hutchings 31-JAN-1999 15:56 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > what we seem to have, here, is an empty converso, > based upon generalities -- and "what Bucky saith, is sooth" !! > > life is, in deed, short ... hey -- is that a threat, Kirby ?!? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:57:25 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: IXABBYIX Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: tetrehedron matrix question >Subject: tetrehedron matrix question >From: Eric Nastav >Date: Wed, Jan 27, 1999 8:14 AM >Message-id: > > I was thinking about designing a dome using a tetrahedron/octahedron >matrix. However, for the dome to be smooth, the tetrahedrons and >octahedrons have to be warped a little. > Does this make the the matrix weaker? > > Eric See my Mma notebooks and think of the triangle of edge length three, {1,1,1}, defining the outward movement of three great circles instead of the three defining lines of an equiangular triangle. Use Napier's method like on the color poster in Synergetics 2, so {1,1,1} defines a spherical triangle. Spherical triangles of edge length zero would be the vertexes of a dome. See discovories of Synergetics in Synergetics 1, 1975, "three way great circles". Cliff Nelson --------------------- " Oh Danny boy, the Odes of ten have calling." RBF electronic notebooks by Clifford J. Nelson --------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:41:37 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: janet9981@YAHOO.COM Subject: Maximize your website's traffic! Comments: To: adsrtc@mtyisrot.com Maximize your website's traffic. INCREASE YOUR SEARCH ENGINE RANK! If your Web site isn't getting the traffic it should, it's likely that it's not ranked well on the major Internet search engines. According to recent Internet E-commerce studies, over 90% of consumers find the Web sites they visit by using eight major search engines, which are Yahoo!, Excite, AltaVista, Infoseek, Lycos, Web Crawler, HotBot, and Northern Light. If your website isn't located in the top-30 listings of these engines, chances are your site will never be seen. The single most important thing you can do to increase your Web site's traffic is to increase your search engine ranking. ------------- "PUT YOUR NAME IN LIGHTS -- List your business with search engines to make sure potential customers can find it." -- BIZ Excite, PC Computing magazine, November 1998 ------------- THE BASICS: HOW SEARCH ENGINES RANK YOUR SITE When you submit your website to a search engine to be indexed in its database, it sends a "robot" to scan your page. Using complex algorithms to rank your page for keyword relevance, the "robot" determines whether you'll be ranked number 1 or 1,000,000 when potential visitors conduct a search looking for sites like yours. Because the search engines are constantly changing their algorithms to provide users with the best possible search results, there's only one true solution to high search engine placement--us. In short, submission alone isn't enough. *Good search engine ranking* is critical to your site's success. ------------- HERE'S WHAT WE DO -- A UNIQUE, SUCCESSFUL APPROACH In order to counter the ever-changing search engine algorithms, we create an entire series of "entry pages" that are optimized for the search engines--one for every keyword (or keyword phrase) that you provide. Each entry page is optimized for a different set of algorithm variables. In other words, instead of having only *one* page struggling to rank well on all engines, we create separate, search engine-specific entry pages for each keyword. As a result, your pages rank well because they contain information relevant to search queries that are related to your industry. ------------- HOW ENTRY PAGES AFFECT YOUR WEB SITE'S CURRENT STRUCTURE Put simply, they don't. When creating entry pages we *do not* make any changes to the existing structure, content, or functionality of your current site. The entry pages act as a welcome screen for your Web site when people enter from your highly ranked link on the search engine. The pages will say a few introductory words about your site, which are keyword and/or keyword phrase rich, and then provide a link that asks the visitor to "Click Here To Enter," which moves them directly to your current homepage. ------------ HERE'S WHAT WE DON'T *EVER* DO TO HELP YOUR SEARCH ENGINE RANK We *will not* build pages for irrelevant--yet "popular"--keywords. Also, we will *never* "spamdex" pages. "Spamdexing" is "stuffing" a Web page full of words for the search engine's robots. You may have seen spamdexing, which is placing many words in the same text color as a background onto a Web page. Spamdexing will actually get your pages "kicked" from search engine indexes. What we *will* do is simply present very relevant keywords for your site to the search engines in the way that they "like" to see it. ------------- "It's simple: If they can't find you on the search engines, they can't buy from you." -- J. LeRoss, Internet Sales Consultant ------------ HOW WELL DOES THE SERVICE WORK? We'll send you a detailed report of your current search engine ranking on "The Big Six" engines before we begin. Then, once your new entry pages have been indexed, we'll send you a second report showing how they've ranked. Here's a sampling of some results we've acheived for previous clients. (These examples are for competitive keywords--not just obscure words on which no one is conducting searches.) <> 6 top-10 rankings on Infoseek for different relevant keywords <> 18 top-10 rankings across the major search engines <> 3 top-10 rankings on Alta Vista for one keyword <> 16 total *number one* rankings <> 40 top-30 rankings, spread across the different engines. <> 1 to 2 hits per week increased to 500 per day <> 45,000 hits per month grew to 108,000. ------------ HOW MUCH DOES YOUR SERVICE COST? Our basic services start at only $385. The basic package includes: <> Construction of optimized entry pages for up to 20 keywords -- This gives you good "coverage" in your industry <> Submission of the keyword-dense entry pages to the "Big Six" search engines When you contact us, ask about other services we provide that may be able to help your Internet initiatives succeed. We have special services that can be tailored for your specific Internet marketing needs. ------------ HOW DO I GET STARTED? <> Call us--we'll answer any questions you may have and provide a no-cost initial consultation. (310) 859-4659 <> Submit your keywords and/or keyword phrases (up to 20) to us ------------ COMMENTS FROM CLIENTS "Frankly, I'm impressed with the foregoing. So many solicitations from email sources turn out to be a phone line that hooks up to a voice mail system that is designed to give the impression of size, and people who never return phone calls/messages. . . So its a pleasant surprise to find that someone at the other end is really operating as a business!!!" --Alan B. "Incredible! Our site is now receiving more hits in a day than we used to get in an entire month. [My boss] is still eating his words." -- Bob W. "I knew the search engines were a fantastic marketing tool, but my company simply didn't have the time to devote to search engine placement. It has proven to be the best money we've ever spent on marketing." -- Shelley H. "I worked for weeks to get good search engine placement, but I could never crack the top 80 . . . my site was deserted. Within a month [after using your service], I'd had more hits than I'd had in the last year. I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me." -- Chris L. ------------ OUR JOB: INCREASE YOUR WEB SITE'S RANKING. We can't guarantee that better ranking will increase the number of visitors that "surf" to your Web site. Some highly-ranked websites still don't get much traffic--much depends on your particular industry and choice of keywords. However, high rankings, in most cases, do mean increased Web site traffic. And, we have never failed to increase a client's ranking. Ever. ------------ CONTACT A REPRESENTATIVE: Search Engine Success Group - Call us at: (310) 859-4659 ----------------------- If you've received this message in error--and are not interested in our services--please click reply or call, (888)-248-2236, and we'll remove you from our list. Maximize your website's traffic. INCREASE YOUR SEARCH ENGINE RANK! If your Web site isn't getting the traffic it should, it's likely that it's not ranked well on the major Internet search engines. According to recent Internet E-commerce studies, over 90% of consumers find the Web sites they visit by using eight major search engines, which are Yahoo!, Excite, AltaVista, Infoseek, Lycos, Web Crawler, HotBot, and Northern Light. If your website isn't located in the top-30 listings of these engines, chances are your site will never be seen. The single most important thing you can do to increase your Web site's traffic is to increase your search engine ranking. ------------- "PUT YOUR NAME IN LIGHTS -- List your business with search engines to make sure potential customers can find it." -- BIZ Excite, PC Computing magazine, November 1998 ------------- THE BASICS: HOW SEARCH ENGINES RANK YOUR SITE When you submit your website to a search engine to be indexed in its database, it sends a "robot" to scan your page. Using complex algorithms to rank your page for keyword relevance, the "robot" determines whether you'll be ranked number 1 or 1,000,000 when potential visitors conduct a search looking for sites like yours. Because the search engines are constantly changing their algorithms to provide users with the best possible search results, there's only one true solution to high search engine placement--us. In short, submission alone isn't enough. *Good search engine ranking* is critical to your site's success. ------------- HERE'S WHAT WE DO -- A UNIQUE, SUCCESSFUL APPROACH In order to counter the ever-changing search engine algorithms, we create an entire series of "entry pages" that are optimized for the search engines--one for every keyword (or keyword phrase) that you provide. Each entry page is optimized for a different set of algorithm variables. In other words, instead of having only *one* page struggling to rank well on all engines, we create separate, search engine-specific entry pages for each keyword. As a result, your pages rank well because they contain information relevant to search queries that are related to your industry. ------------- HOW ENTRY PAGES AFFECT YOUR WEB SITE'S CURRENT STRUCTURE Put simply, they don't. When creating entry pages we *do not* make any changes to the existing structure, content, or functionality of your current site. The entry pages act as a welcome screen for your Web site when people enter from your highly ranked link on the search engine. The pages will say a few introductory words about your site, which are keyword and/or keyword phrase rich, and then provide a link that asks the visitor to "Click Here To Enter," which moves them directly to your current homepage. ------------ HERE'S WHAT WE DON'T *EVER* DO TO HELP YOUR SEARCH ENGINE RANK We *will not* build pages for irrelevant--yet "popular"--keywords. Also, we will *never* "spamdex" pages. "Spamdexing" is "stuffing" a Web page full of words for the search engine's robots. You may have seen spamdexing, which is placing many words in the same text color as a background onto a Web page. Spamdexing will actually get your pages "kicked" from search engine indexes. What we *will* do is simply present very relevant keywords for your site to the search engines in the way that they "like" to see it. ------------- "It's simple: If they can't find you on the search engines, they can't buy from you." -- J. LeRoss, Internet Sales Consultant ------------ HOW WELL DOES THE SERVICE WORK? We'll send you a detailed report of your current search engine ranking on "The Big Six" engines before we begin. Then, once your new entry pages have been indexed, we'll send you a second report showing how they've ranked. Here's a sampling of some results we've acheived for previous clients. (These examples are for competitive keywords--not just obscure words on which no one is conducting searches.) <> 6 top-10 rankings on Infoseek for different relevant keywords <> 18 top-10 rankings across the major search engines <> 3 top-10 rankings on Alta Vista for one keyword <> 16 total *number one* rankings <> 40 top-30 rankings, spread across the different engines. <> 1 to 2 hits per week increased to 500 per day <> 45,000 hits per month grew to 108,000. ------------ HOW MUCH DOES YOUR SERVICE COST? Our basic services start at only $385. The basic package includes: <> Construction of optimized entry pages for up to 20 keywords -- This gives you good "coverage" in your industry <> Submission of the keyword-dense entry pages to the "Big Six" search engines When you contact us, ask about other services we provide that may be able to help your Internet initiatives succeed. We have special services that can be tailored for your specific Internet marketing needs. ------------ HOW DO I GET STARTED? <> Call us--we'll answer any questions you may have and provide a no-cost initial consultation. (888) 283-2050 <> Submit your keywords and/or keyword phrases (up to 20) to us ------------ COMMENTS FROM CLIENTS "Frankly, I'm impressed with the foregoing. So many solicitations from email sources turn out to be a phone line that hooks up to a voice mail system that is designed to give the impression of size, and people who never return phone calls/messages. . . So its a pleasant surprise to find that someone at the other end is really operating as a business!!!" --Alan B. "Incredible! Our site is now receiving more hits in a day than we used to get in an entire month. [My boss] is still eating his words." -- Bob W. "I knew the search engines were a fantastic marketing tool, but my company simply didn't have the time to devote to search engine placement. It has proven to be the best money we've ever spent on marketing." -- Shelley H. "I worked for weeks to get good search engine placement, but I could never crack the top 80 . . . my site was deserted. Within a month [after using your service], I'd had more hits than I'd had in the last year. I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me." -- Chris L. ------------ OUR JOB: INCREASE YOUR WEB SITE'S RANKING. We can't guarantee that better ranking will increase the number of visitors that "surf" to your Web site. Some highly-ranked websites still don't get much traffic--much depends on your particular industry and choice of keywords. However, high rankings, in most cases, do mean increased Web site traffic. And, we have never failed to increase a client's ranking. Ever. ------------ CONTACT A REPRESENTATIVE: Search Engine Success Group - Call us at: (888) 283-2050 ----------------------- If you've received this message in error--and are not interested in our services--please click reply or call, (888)-248-2236, and we'll remove you from our list. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:20:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: tetrehedron matrix question <> Brian Hutchings 01-FEB-1999 12:20 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us could you explain that, again? thus quoth: defining the outward movement of three great circles instead of the three defining lines of an equiangular triangle. Use Napier's method like on the color poster in Synergetics 2, so {1,1,1} defines a spherical triangle. now, a spherical trigon of edge-length zero, might be the vertex of a polyhedron, but not the hub of a dome! --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:43:31 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: The Kosovo Storyboard In-Reply-To: <199901312356.PAA24562@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT <> ><> Brian Hutchings 31-JAN-1999 15:56 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > what we seem to have, here, is an empty converso, > based upon generalities -- and "what Bucky saith, is sooth" !! Thus quoth Brian Hutchings 109 lines of text in order to contribute his lowly (at the bottom) 8, 2 of which we see over and over: > --The Duke of Oil! > http://www.tarpley.net Given I'm using the Fuller Projection as a part of my curriculum, I'm inclined to give it a spin that doesn't make it so easily a tool of either AngloRoman type imperialists or hands-over-ears type nationalists, neither of whom want to hear the sound of one Spaceship spinning. If you're already zen with idea of a nation- less world map, one island in one ocean, indivisible, then yes, I'm just preaching to the converted in that case. Nuff said. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:03:41 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dsullivan Organization: McHenryCom Company, Chicago IL, USA Subject: Dome for Sale - NW Chicago We are selling our 2 dome residence in Crystal Lake, Illinois (McHenry County). 10 minutes from Chicago train station. 3/4 bedrooms, built 1979 on 2 gorgeous acres of land, partially wooded. One dome contains 3 bedrooms, 1 bath and laundry facilities, other contains a living room, dining room, large kitchen with pantry, breakfast area, family room and 2nd floor loft. Spacious home, well-maintained. I can be reached by phone at 815.459.7126. We have already moved, but I maintain my office in the dome currently. Ready to move into. -Dan Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:22:29 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Re <> Brian Hutchings 02-FEB-1999 3:22 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, nuff said, with sound & fury! thus quoth: SUBJECT: Re: The Kosovo Storyboard MESSAGE from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU 01-FEB-19 17:40 <> ><> Brian Hutchings 31-JAN-1999 15:56 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > what we seem to have, here, is an empty converso, > based upon generalities -- and "what Bucky saith, is sooth" !! Thus quoth Brian Hutchings 109 lines of text in order to contribute his lowly (at the bottom) 8, 2 of which we see over and over: > --The Duke of Oil! > http://www.tarpley.net Given I'm using the Fuller Projection as a part of my curriculum, I'm inclined to give it a spin that doesn't make it so easily a tool of either AngloRoman type imperialists or hands-over-ears type nationalists, neither of whom want to hear the sound of one Spaceship spinning. If you're already zen with idea of a nation- less world map, one island in one ocean, indivisible, then yes, I'm just preaching to the converted in that case. Nuff said. spinleft, or spinright? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:14:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Lawrence E. Couey" Organization: CATT/FX Informationing Subject: Re: Foam Dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------00D063AD705A10B4272FD1FF" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------00D063AD705A10B4272FD1FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ernie, I too am very interested in what you've done with EPS foam and dome construction. Here in Utah, and Colorado, snow load can be a real issue so I'm also interested in ways to insure the weight is spread properly through the Geodesic structure (__Geodesic Math: and How To Use It__ by Hugh Kenner). Lawrence C. "D. Ernest Sparks" wrote: > Has anyone ever heard of someone building a dome of EPS foam? I have > been in the EPS field both as an equipment designer/manufacturer and > fabricator for more than 15 years. Our firm pioneered the use of EPS > foam moldings in the construction industry in Southern California in the > late 1980s and in 1990 we built a 20' diameter geodesic dome out of 5" > thick EPS foam. Assembly took only a couple of hours while the exterior > and interior coatings took another three days. The structure has > withstood just about everything nature can throw at it except heavy snow > loads which are virtually of no concern to us whatsoever. > > We are planning to build a 35' diameter dome home in northern California > this year using new exterior coatings which have an extremely high > impact resistance. The walls will be 10 inches thick producing an R > value in excess of 50. > > Would appreciate any input anyone might have. Will also share some of > the techniques we used in the prototype. How about a window that can be > opened in a driving rain to permit air flow without any leakage, can be > replaced with a screen, plywood (for hurricane conditions), or plexiglas > -- in about 15 seconds. Has to be seen to be believed. We designed, > manufactured and installed three of these in the prototype dome. > > Interested in all queries. > > Ernie > > ernie@humanoid.net -- --------------------------------------------- Lawrence E. Couey - Convivial Applied Theoretical Technologies/ FX Informationing - mailto:LECouey@INet-1.com --------------------------------------------- --------------00D063AD705A10B4272FD1FF Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="LECouey.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Lawrence E. Couey Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="LECouey.vcf" begin:vcard n:Couey;Lawrence E. tel;work:801.489.8773 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:CATT/FX Informationing adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:LECouey@inet-1.com title:Senior R&D Software Engineer x-mozilla-cpt:;-1 fn:Lawrence E. Couey end:vcard --------------00D063AD705A10B4272FD1FF-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:26:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Lawrence E. Couey" Organization: CATT/FX Informationing Subject: Re: concrete domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------725B08DEC179A5BC8D3FFD61" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------725B08DEC179A5BC8D3FFD61 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael, Monolithic Domes has developed a gunite (sprayed) dome system. They also sell the system to other companies so they can also build concrete dome structures for people, both as homes and as commercial buildings. Michael Hissom wrote: > Can you give me an opinion of concrete geodesic domes, like the ones made by > "American Ingenuity" I am thinking of building one and would like an opinion > other than theirs. Thanks. > > Michael -- --------------------------------------------- Lawrence E. Couey - Convivial Applied Theoretical Technologies/ FX Informationing - mailto:LECouey@INet-1.com --------------------------------------------- --------------725B08DEC179A5BC8D3FFD61 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="LECouey.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Lawrence E. Couey Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="LECouey.vcf" begin:vcard n:Couey;Lawrence E. tel;work:801.489.8773 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:CATT/FX Informationing adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:LECouey@inet-1.com title:Senior R&D Software Engineer x-mozilla-cpt:;-1 fn:Lawrence E. Couey end:vcard --------------725B08DEC179A5BC8D3FFD61-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:33:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Siegmund Subject: Another Tetworld list! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Just a brief announcement. As you may know, there is a recently formed disussion list (currently 27 members) for Buckminster Fuller's idea for a world game. There is now an additional list (currently 3 members) for discussion of the Tetworld Project and Game only. Either or both may be subscribed to at: http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/world1.html Thanks, and Regards, Mark Siegmund ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:56:44 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: spar-hub dome Comments: To: Eric Nastav In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric, Since DB2 has been out of print for years, try to borrow it through your local library's inter-library loan service. See also 'Domebook One', pages 25-6. Both were published by Pacific Domes, Los Gatos, CA, in 1970 & 1971, respectively. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Nastav [mailto:enastav@bookstore.iupui.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 6:23 AM > To: Joe S Moore > Subject: Re: spar-hub dome > > On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Joe S Moore wrote: > > > Eric, > > > > See 'Domebook 2', pages 45-7 (snip) > Where can I get a copy of this? > > Eric > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:01:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Another Tetworld list! MESSAGE from ="List 02-FEB-1999 19:58 Hello All, Just a brief announcement. As you may know, there is a recently formed disussion list (currently 27 members) for Buckminster Fuller's idea for a world game. There is now an additional list (currently 3 members) for discussion of the Tetworld Project and Game only. Either or both may be subscribed to at: http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/world1.html Thanks, and Regards, Mark Siegmund - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 02-FEB-1999 20:01 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us how about a dyscription of eiboth, for the sake of those withonly lists -- what in Hell is Tetworld? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:05:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: t Some autobio from Kirby MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Warning! Rate over 18 years old or PBS literate readers. > Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > > I would rather be me than you synergetic wise. Thank you > > I guess we agree to disagree. Thank you for your > > opinion so read my letter from bucky and weep. > > I still love you. Even if you kick me off your list for > > being honest. I have no more interest in your OJ > > case for your power trip. If you have such a > > bigoted attitude about unitivity then attack it not > > me. Bucky is the first to say think for your self. > > He invented syntropy because of my unitivity paper > > in 1967, it is not something that is after his death. It > > is a matter of fact after unitivity that he wrote me > > the letter of stating he had extra ordinary confidence > > in me. http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html > > So you see the idea that unitivity is after bucky is not > > true, he wrote me my letter of graduation into integrity > > in 1968 one year after my copy right of unitivity and syntropy. > > Unitivity is my concept to simplify synergetics. > > What is wrong with that? New ideas from > > experience is the name of the game. This is > > the truth that I was taught by Bucky himself. > > Your selfish attitude is a display of your reality. > > You are the one attacking his family, I am only > > attacking your ignorance to do so. I stop before > > the flames get to high and you start home with your > > ball. I will only respond to your attacks as I have > > in this last post for your display of past bull shirt. > > Fini, you may now have the last word on this. > > I only wish to talk synergetics and bucky > > and anne related subjects like renting my > > dome. Or is this also your business as well. > > What I do and ask for the dome is not your > > business. Thank you for your opinion. > > I live on a boat now worth 26,000 dollars > > I do not need to sell the dome to get another > > boat. We have earth quakes here and riots > > that are like Viet Nam so you have little > > idea about what I am talking about when i do > > not live on the land for here it is already needed. > > We have anthrax alerts here every week now. > > Bucky was very much for living on the sea > > as well as anywhere that works. I have little > > faith in the reality of humans working in one > > life time to make anything on land work > > for all humanity, I can vote from my boat. > > I offered the BFI the dome long ago and > > they turned it away. I have been asking > > 200 K for it the last 15 years only the last 3 or 4 > > have I come lower to 100K. I do not need to > > sell it for any reason for it gives me 7.2 K > > per year without anything. My brother has > > millions and he does not need the money right > > away. I am liking to get it into the hands of > > Carbondale and Bill Perk ( I have great respect > > for bill and do not blame him for his experience I > > would have tried the same thing probably myself) > > anyway he can help with the dome what he wants and > > can help if I find a donor that > > gives me what bucky gave the dome to me for > > to help me in the future for working with him so > > close by making all those audio tapes that no one > > else was doing and I saved for humanity to hear. > > This time was his best. From 1967 to 1974 or 76. > > This was his best years. I saved them for you and > > the world to hear. i hope to help make this so if > > I get the money from the dome , not buy a boat. > > I have a boat. now.... I have two boats. So > > Please try and hurt someone else that is > > vulnerable to your lies. You are the one > > that calls your self "evil kirby". not me. > > i like you kirby if you would just take your > > place and say your sorry to bfi and forget > > about it all, and play synergetics without all > > the negative jargon. I do not see anyone on > > your side with this stuff. Not really. > > I forgive you Kirby for making mistakes, this > > makes for great men. But you must say > > as bucky stated to Ezra Pound that you are > > sorry first until then you are caught in your own trap. > > My soul is open to the world as Tony Huston's > > is now that he stated he is sorry to Allegra. > > It is not your archive or anyone else's. It is > > Allegra's and you hate that and others > > need to see that they should just FUCK OFF > > because Bucky and Anne gave it to them > > to do what they want. Excuse my french. > > Please. MSM () ; - ) > > > > As far as BUCKY"S GRAVE IS CONCERNED > > IT IS A TRIM TAB FOR HIS RED TELEPHONE. > > He once told me that the person that made the first > > chair was there every time you sit in one. I feel that > > he has not died nor has anyone ever, the integrity of > > all precesses into the future and we have one duty to that > > integrity and that is to unite with it and tell the truth. > > What I call unitivity. > > To make it come together to make it ever more > > propitious for humanity. Every person that dies in a war > > or an accident or health problems is a person that states > > to all that lives what life is for. To make it work better > > while you are here and help the children to make it > > more fun to be here. Or is this A miss calculation. > > Your casual implication of drivel and herr smear > > is the signature of your sad state of mind at large. > > Cheer out Kirby this is not all that serious. > > This is only cyber space. Let others share it... > > you will have more fun. No one can ever > > make bucky look like a fool. He has integrity > > with a capitol I. It is easy to call integrity ego > > and attack it with slander. BUT IT STAYS > > AND STAYS AND STAYS till the negative > > is understood for what it is. The truth is happiness. > > > > Kirby Urner wrote: > > > > > More of your usual drivel, Herr Mitchell. If you want > > > to be the family kiss ass, feel free. You're sitting > > > on Bucky's dome like a fat chicken with a rotten egg, > > > frustrating everyone's plan to make a theme park > > > because you've turned into a greedy sell-out who won't > > > part with your dream of $100K. You plan to buy a sailboat > > > and move out to sea because you think everyone on land is > > > doomed, which is the most anti-Bucky philosophy of anyone > > > who ever posted to this list. Unitivity is your way of > > > destroying synergetics and making Bucky look like a fool, > > > because new people think you and Bucky were walking the > > > same talk, which is a goofy idea, but you encourage it, > > > all in the name of pawning off your dead albatross dome. > > > Bucky tried to be your friend and introduced you around, > > > but as soon as he was dead you starting jumping on his > > > grave shouting "unitivity!" and sucking your tetrahedron > > > so loud it makes his skeleton rattle. Now you take > > > advantage of the family by setting yourself up as their > > > great defender against "evil Kirby" even while you're > > > exploiting your relationship with Allegra's father, making > > > everyone jump through your hoops including Hillary Clinton. > > > What a power mad cowardly grave robber you turned out to be. > > > I hope you apologize to the whole world very soon, and > > > maybe donate the dome to BFI as a token of your deep > > > regret for behaving in such a foul, idiotic and stupid > > > manner. -- Kirby > > > > > > > The BFI is growing and I thank you for helpingit get into the internet. > > Faithfully, > > > > Michael S. Mitchell > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:09:21 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brian A.Stuckless" Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Subject: VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) The following essay shows some calculations concerning 'cloud cities' or 'sky-balls' which will hover weightlessly in the air. VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) The key aspect of this 'hollowed city' scenario is ' volume to surface area' ratio, where the function of volume(in this case) is the mass of the air which can be expelled from the hollowed interior...(for example, due to a difference in density because of a difference in temperature between the inside and outside), and where the function of surface area (in this case) is the mass of the shell/city structure. A sphere has only one outside face and is that shape which alone encloses the most volume with the least amount of surface area...or, as Buckminster Fuller (who focused on more efficient use of resourses) so often lectured, that only the sphere encloses the most space with the least amount of material...hence, the Koining of that most infamous phrase..."more with less". The shape of the sphere represents the maximum limit of volume in terms of any fixed amount of surface, and represents the minimum limit of surface in terms of any fixed amount of volume, ............regardless of size. That geodesic shell/city will be ' weightless' in the air, when the 'mass of that expelled air' divided by the 'mass of that shell/city' is equal to 'one'. The ' weightlessness', regardless of what that shell/city is structurally composed of, is dependant only on the 'radius', for any design difference between the inside air density and the outside air density. Of course, the greater the total weight of the structure... at any fixed radius, the greater that density difference must be. And,...for a structure with a very large diameter like a geodesic city floating in air, the surface area( in this case the structural mass) will be quite a small fraction(in the range of about 1/500th) of the extremely large enclosed volume(in this case the total inside air mass), such that a small decrease in the inside air density (for example, due to a small increase in the inside temperature of say 10 deg. centigrade) is enough to expell an amount of air equal in mass to the mass of the entire structure. Each time the diameter of an object is doubled, the volume increases eight times, whereas the surface area increases only four times. A sphere is that shape of all possible shapes which has the least surface area (in this case a shell/city), for any fixed volume. Whereas the Volume increases as the cube of the diameter, the surface area only increases as the square of the diameter. Try plugging various quantities into the following equation for yourself to get the scope of the scenario: "Thermal-induced weightless" in air : = ' total structural mass'...at the point of ' weightlessness' = (coeff. air expan.)x( outer air density )x( total vol.)x( temp.diff.) = ( 0.00367)x(1.2 kg.per cu.meter)x(total vol.)x(temp.diff. ?deg.C) = ' mass of the expelled air '...due to that much rise in temperature. = (total surface area)x((ave.spatial density of shell)(shell thickness)) = (total surface area)x(structural density factor ...kg./ sq.m.) = (total volume)x((outside density)--minus--(inside density)) = (total volume)x((1.2 @ 20 deg.C) --minus-- (inside ?kg./cu.m.)) Where ...for any sphere: Diameter = cube root of (6x( total vol.)/pi) = Square root of (total surface area/pi) Total Surface Area = pi (diameter squared) Total Volume = (pi x(diameter cubed))/6 = that volume at the lower density. Example 1: Small Geodesic floating city...weightless in air: Total structural mass = 0.00367 x 1.2 x ( 10 deg. C diff. ) x ( 22.71 billion cubic meters) = 1 billion killograms..................the diameter is 3,513 meters = 3.7% of the mass of the total volume of enclosed air = (22.71 billion cu.m.)x(0.0440335 kg.per cu.meter density diff.) Note: a)...total volume / surface area = 586 aprox. b)...structural density factor = 25.8 kg./ sq.meter Example 2 : Geodesic battlestation...weightless in air: Total structural mass = 0.00367 x 1.2 x ( 24 deg.C diff. ) x ( 4.2 billion cubic meters ) = 454 million killograms..............the diameter is 2,000 meters = 9.0% of the mass of the total volume of enclosed air = (4.2 billion cu.m.)x(0.1080952 kg. per cu.meter density diff.) Note: a) ...total vol. / surface area = 333 aprox. b) ...structural density factor = 36 kg./ sq. meter Example 3 : Hot air balloon...weightless in air: Total structural mass = 0.00367 x 1.2 x ( 100 deg.C diff. ) x ( 36 x pi cubic meters ) = 50 killograms aprox..............the diameter is 6 meters = 36.8% of the mass of the total volume of enclosed air = (113.09 cu. meters)x(0.4421257 kg. per cu.meter density diff.) Note: a) ...total vol. / surface area = 1 exactly b) ...surface area = 36 x pi sq.meters(113.09 sq.meters) c) ...structural density factor = 0.44 kg./ sq. meter The 'structural density factor' is assumed to include the mass of people and accessories, in the above examples. The 'density difference' required for any weightless, hollow structure floating in air is inversely proportional to its' normal volume/surface area' ratio. The larger the radius; the smaller the required 'density difference'. It is the "density difference' that results in ''weightlessness' and can be controlled by transfering (i.e. 'pumping') air into or out of the sealed 'total volume' of enclosed air. Heating a sealed fixed volume induces pressure but no lift. A geodesic enclosing a sealed constant volume of air will rise to an altitude where the ' weight' of the air transfered out (to create a difference in density between the outside and the inside) is equal to the ' weight' of the structure (including people and/or accessories). If no further change in altitude is considered...only hovering in a state of "weightlessness", then the gravitational acceleration constant ' g ', which varies with altitude, cancels out. With ' g ' cancelled out, the term ' weight' ( which varies with ' g ' ) becomes simply ' mass' : Total structural mass ...weightless in air = ( total vol.)x(( 1) -minus- (inside pressure) / (outside pressure)) = ( total volume)x(( outside density) -minus- (inside density )) = (total vol.)x(outside density)x(coeff. of air expan.)x(temp.diff.) = ( total surface area )x( structural density factor ) = ( " " " )x( ave. spatial density of shell )x( shell thickness ) = minimum % of the mass of the enclosed 'total volume' air mass. where: Outside pressure = 101,300 Pascals (at 20deg.C.) = 10,239.73 kilograms/sq.meter) = 14.689 psi. Outside density = 1.20 kilograns/cu.m.(at 20deg.C.) Coefficient of air expansion = 0.00367aproximately. The "total structural mass" includes everything except the 'total volume' air mass enclosed, and the air mass displaced (expelled or transfered out to reduce the inside density ). The "structural density factor" portions out the mass of the structural framework of the shell, the "shell thickness', the mass of the outer(and inner...if required ) skin covering, the mass of onboard accessories, and/or people...for the preliminary design. The "ave.spatial density of shell" is determined mostly by the frequency of the geodesic, ...but people and accessories can be included here (or included as an add-on to the "total structural mass"). The "total volume" includes all of that enclosed air at the lesser "inside density". In the case of non-thermal vacuum lift, the "total volume" must be sealed, with just enough internal reduced atmosphere to keep the skin a bit tight and yet result in just enough "expelled air mass" to equal the "total structural mass". The mass of the people and accessories,etc. is included in the 'structural density factor' which works out to an average of ' 36 kilograms per square meter of total shell-surface area'. This factor will be the product of the as yet unspecified 'shell thickness' and the 'ave. spatial density'. So, if we choose a constant shell thickness of say 5 meters, then the 'average spatial density' will have to be 7.2 kilograms per cubic meter of shell volume. The following equation of weightlessness will express ' total structural mass '... but this time in terms of ' volume ' and ' pressure ', in addition to terms previously given : Total Structural Mass = (total vol.)x((1-minus- (inside pressure)/(outside pressure)) = (total vol.)x(outside density -minus- inside density) = (total vol.)x(coef. air expan.)x(temp. diff.)x(outside density) = (total surface area)x(ave. spatial density)x(shell thickness) = (total surface area)x(structural density factor in kg./sq. m.) Non-thermal ' vacuum lift ' can be achieved without resorting to the use of different gases of different normal densities. For example, it's reported that 1" (0.254m.) glass spheres with 1/2 atmosphere or so of vacuum are weightless and permanent in air. If so, each little sphere could be made of no more than 0.00000429 kg. of glass, with a shell thickness of aproximately 0.0000008 meter. That's less than 1 micron thick...and bearing a pressure difference of 50,650 Pa.( 7.3 lbs./ sq.in.). It's a well known function of volume/surface area ratio that a smaller radius of curvature is tougher to puncture than a larger radius of curvature for the same material and thickness. The volume/surface area ratio in this case is 0.0042332 . At the other end of the range of possibility, in that case let's reconsider say Example 1: Geodesic floating city... 3513 meters in diameter, 1 billion kgs.of total structural mass, 22.71 billion cubic meters of total volume, and a volume/surface area ratio of 585.8 ..........a slight vacuum of only 4,461 Pa. (0.647pounds per sq. inch) difference between the inside and the outside pressure, would affect greater 'rigidity' due to the centrosymmetric structural loading, as a result of the ' vacuum-induced ' external pressure causing 'skin tension', than would the 10 deg.C difference in temperature required to generate the same lift for the same structure in the ' thermal lift ' (hot air) scenario... And achievable with much more lightweight skin material due to that tension, and hence...less air displacement required to generate the same lift ...or accessory capacity. Somewhere in between on the range of possibility, a moderately small diameter geodesic, of say less than 100 meters in diameter, would need a very stiff lightweight frame, a fairly high-tensile skin, and be able to withstand a relatively large pressure difference between the outside and the inside. It's this range that requires added focus. Like the 'black-holes' of astrophysics, ' vacuum lift ' is completely suported by the appropriate equations, ...but dire circumstances obscure their full 'realisation'. Indeed, it may not be far from fact, that black-holes are under-rated vacuums. Sincerely, -- bastuckless@avalon.nf.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:47:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Another Tetworld list! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree. Here is another give me money scheme to take money from wgi, and bfi. Just what we need more power to less integrity. I have joined and can not see past the ads. Where is the list? I can not find it yet. Brian I agree where is it, why is it, or is tet world just another unitivity idea. By the way if anyone wants to send money to unitivity give it to your self and this is what unitivity wants to be designed. Hutch where's the chickens. I am sorry I called you studed srupid, please forgive me. It was one of those mist experiences. I have just laid Kirby out for the last tetrahedron on the syn list for his last blast at me. He will probably resign from here again and come back to show how important it is to stand by his big feet. Like jack and the bean stalk he wants the chicken that lays the golden domes. The giant is on to him and saying fee fii foo fum, stop screaming chickens on the net for the supreme court says it is OK. This is a porno chicken ad and if you are one you understand. Uniticity. This is the Vatican for chickens. I am a cop searching for lost souls on the web, I found KU. At least it is a living. Dope smugglers for bucky unite. Tetworld is an under cover world plot. ANyway hutch I can not find the fog gun anywhere. This list sucks because I can not see your funny jokes fast enough. WHO EVER RUNS THIS LIST IS STONED OUT OF THERE MIND Heh in there this list is not working fast enough and it seems to post a week late and out of time sink etc. Anyone their. Yooohooo! Michael S. Mitchell Brian Hutchings wrote: > MESSAGE from ="List 02-FEB-1999 19:58 > Hello All, > > Just a brief announcement. > > As you may know, there is a recently formed disussion list (currently 27 > members) for Buckminster Fuller's idea for a world game. > > There is now an additional list (currently 3 members) for discussion of the > Tetworld Project and Game only. > > Either or both may be subscribed to at: > http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/world1.html > > Thanks, and > Regards, > Mark Siegmund > - - - - - > > <> Brian Hutchings 02-FEB-1999 20:01 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > how about a dyscription of eiboth, for the sake of those withonly lists -- > what in Hell is Tetworld? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:54:59 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brian A.Stuckless" Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Subject: VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) The following essay shows some calculations concerning 'cloud cities' or 'sky-balls' which will hover weightlessly in the air. VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) The key aspect of this 'hollowed city' scenario is ' volume to surface area' ratio, where the function of volume(in this case) is the mass of the air which can be expelled from the hollowed interior...(for example, due to a difference in density because of a difference in temperature between the inside and outside), and where the function of surface area (in this case) is the mass of the shell/city structure. A sphere has only one outside face and is that shape which alone encloses the most volume with the least amount of surface area...or, as Buckminster Fuller (who focused on more efficient use of resourses) so often lectured, that only the sphere encloses the most space with the least amount of material...hence, the Koining of that most infamous phrase..."more with less". The shape of the sphere represents the maximum limit of volume in terms of any fixed amount of surface, and represents the minimum limit of surface in terms of any fixed amount of volume, ..............regardless of size. That geodesic shell/city will be ' weightless' in the air, when the 'mass of that expelled air' divided by the 'mass of that shell/city' is equal to 'one'. The ' weightlessness', regardless of what that shell/city is structurally composed of, is dependant only on the 'radius', for any design difference between the inside air density and the outside air density. Of course, the greater the total weight of the structure... at any fixed radius, the greater that density difference must be. And,...for a structure with a very large diameter like a geodesic city floating in air, the surface area( in this case the structural mass) will be quite a small fraction(in the range of about 1/500th) of the extremely large enclosed volume(in this case the total inside air mass), such that a small decrease in the inside air density (for example, due to a small increase in the inside temperature of say 10 deg. centigrade) is enough to expell an amount of air equal in mass to the mass of the entire structure. Each time the diameter of an object is doubled, the volume increases eight times, whereas the surface area increases only four times. A sphere is that shape of all possible shapes which has the least surface area (in this case a shell/city), for any fixed volume. Whereas the Volume increases as the cube of the diameter, the surface area only increases as the square of the diameter. Try plugging various quantities into the following equation for yourself to get the scope of the scenario: "Thermal-induced weightless" in air : = ' total structural mass'...at the point of ' weightlessness' = (coeff. air expan.)x( outer air density )x( total vol.)x( temp.diff.) = ( 0.00367)x(1.2 kg.per cu.meter)x(total vol.)x(temp.diff. ?deg.C) = ' mass of the expelled air '...due to that much rise in temperature. = (total surface area)x((ave.spatial density of shell)(shell thickness)) = (total surface area)x(structural density factor ...kg./ sq.m.) = (total volume)x((outside density)--minus--(inside density)) = (total volume)x((1.2 @ 20 deg.C) --minus-- (inside ?kg./cu.m.)) Where ...for any sphere: Diameter = cube root of (6x( total vol.)/pi) = Square root of (total surface area/pi) Total Surface Area = pi (diameter squared) Total Volume = (pi x(diameter cubed))/6 = that volume at the lower density. Example 1: Small Geodesic floating city...weightless in air: Total structural mass = 0.00367 x 1.2 x ( 10 deg. C diff. ) x ( 22.71 billion cubic meters) = 1 billion killograms..................the diameter is 3,513 meters = 3.7% of the mass of the total volume of enclosed air = (22.71 billion cu.m.)x(0.0440335 kg.per cu.meter density diff.) Note: a)...total volume / surface area = 586 aprox. b)...structural density factor = 25.8 kg./ sq.meter Example 2 : Geodesic battlestation...weightless in air: Total structural mass = 0.00367 x 1.2 x ( 24 deg.C diff. ) x ( 4.2 billion cubic meters ) = 454 million killograms..............the diameter is 2,000 meters = 9.0% of the mass of the total volume of enclosed air = (4.2 billion cu.m.)x(0.1080952 kg. per cu.meter density diff.) Note: a) ...total vol. / surface area = 333 aprox. b) ...structural density factor = 36 kg./ sq. meter Example 3 : Hot air balloon...weightless in air: Total structural mass = 0.00367 x 1.2 x ( 100 deg.C diff. ) x ( 36 x pi cubic meters ) = 50 killograms aprox..............the diameter is 6 meters = 36.8% of the mass of the total volume of enclosed air = (113.09 cu. meters)x(0.4421257 kg. per cu.meter density diff.) Note: a) ...total vol. / surface area = 1 exactly b) ...surface area = 36 x pi sq.meters(113.09 sq.meters) c) ...structural density factor = 0.44 kg./ sq. meter The 'structural density factor' is assumed to include the mass of people and accessories, in the above examples. The 'density difference' required for any weightless, hollow structure floating in air is inversely proportional to its' normal volume/surface area' ratio. The larger the radius; the smaller the required 'density difference'. It is the "density difference' that results in ''weightlessness' and can be controlled by transfering (i.e. 'pumping') air into or out of the sealed 'total volume' of enclosed air. Heating a sealed fixed volume induces pressure but no lift. A geodesic enclosing a sealed constant volume of air will rise to an altitude where the ' weight' of the air transfered out (to create a difference in density between the outside and the inside) is equal to the ' weight' of the structure (including people and/or accessories). If no further change in altitude is considered...only hovering in a state of "weightlessness", then the gravitational acceleration constant ' g ', which varies with altitude, cancels out. With ' g ' cancelled out, the term ' weight' ( which varies with ' g ' ) becomes simply ' mass' : Total structural mass ...weightless in air = ( total vol.)x(( 1) -minus- (inside pressure) / (outside pressure)) = ( total volume)x(( outside density) -minus- (inside density )) = (total vol.)x(outside density)x(coeff. of air expan.)x(temp.diff.) = ( total surface area )x( structural density factor ) = ( " " " )x( ave. spatial density of shell )x( shell thickness ) = minimum % of the mass of the enclosed 'total volume' air mass. where: Outside pressure = 101,300 Pascals (at 20deg.C.) = 10,239.73 kilograms/sq.meter) = 14.689 psi. Outside density = 1.20 kilograns/cu.m.(at 20deg.C.) Coefficient of air expansion = 0.00367aproximately. The "total structural mass" includes everything except the 'total volume' air mass enclosed, and the air mass displaced (expelled or transfered out to reduce the inside density ). The "structural density factor" portions out the mass of the structural framework of the shell, the "shell thickness', the mass of the outer(and inner...if required ) skin covering, the mass of onboard accessories, and/or people...for the preliminary design. The "ave.spatial density of shell" is determined mostly by the frequency of the geodesic, ...but people and accessories can be included here (or included as an add-on to the "total structural mass"). The "total volume" includes all of that enclosed air at the lesser "inside density". In the case of non-thermal vacuum lift, the "total volume" must be sealed, with just enough internal reduced atmosphere to keep the skin a bit tight and yet result in just enough "expelled air mass" to equal the "total structural mass". The mass of the people and accessories,etc. is included in the 'structural density factor' which works out to an average of ' 36 kilograms per square meter of total shell-surface area'. This factor will be the product of the as yet unspecified 'shell thickness' and the 'ave. spatial density'. So, if we choose a constant shell thickness of say 5 meters, then the 'average spatial density' will have to be 7.2 kilograms per cubic meter of shell volume. The following equation of weightlessness will express ' total structural mass '... but this time in terms of ' volume ' and ' pressure ', in addition to terms previously given : Total Structural Mass = (total vol.)x((1-minus- (inside pressure)/(outside pressure)) = (total vol.)x(outside density -minus- inside density) = (total vol.)x(coef. air expan.)x(temp. diff.)x(outside density) = (total surface area)x(ave. spatial density)x(shell thickness) = (total surface area)x(structural density factor in kg./sq. m.) Non-thermal ' vacuum lift ' can be achieved without resorting to the use of different gases of different normal densities. For example, it's reported that 1" (0.254m.) glass spheres with 1/2 atmosphere or so of vacuum are weightless and permanent in air. If so, each little sphere could be made of no more than 0.00000429 kg. of glass, with a shell thickness of aproximately 0.0000008 meter. That's less than 1 micron thick...and bearing a pressure difference of 50,650 Pa.( 7.3 lbs./ sq.in.). It's a well known function of volume/surface area ratio that a smaller radius of curvature is tougher to puncture than a larger radius of curvature for the same material and thickness. The volume/surface area ratio in this case is 0.0042332 . At the other end of the range of possibility, in that case let's reconsider say Example 1: Geodesic floating city... 3513 meters in diameter, 1 billion kgs.of total structural mass, 22.71 billion cubic meters of total volume, and a volume/surface area ratio of 585.8 ..........a slight vacuum of only 4,461 Pa. (0.647pounds per sq. inch) difference between the inside and the outside pressure, would affect greater 'rigidity' due to the centrosymmetric structural loading, as a result of the ' vacuum-induced ' external pressure causing 'skin tension', than would the 10 deg.C difference in temperature required to generate the same lift for the same structure in the ' thermal lift ' (hot air) scenario... And achievable with much more lightweight skin material due to that tension, and hence...less air displacement required to generate the same lift ...or accessory capacity. Somewhere in between on the range of possibility, a moderately small diameter geodesic, of say less than 100 meters in diameter, would need a very stiff lightweight frame, a fairly high-tensile skin, and be able to withstand a relatively large pressure difference between the outside and the inside. It's this range that requires added focus. Like the 'black-holes' of astrophysics, ' vacuum lift ' is completely suported by the appropriate equations, ...but dire circumstances obscure their full 'realisation'. Indeed, it may not be far from fact, that black-holes are under-rated vacuums. Sincerely, -- bastuckless@avalon.nf.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:23:02 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Re: VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Build one and I'll believe, what material do you propose to be strong enough to build your floating city from? If it is possible, it would make a great exploration vehicle in the atmosphere of Jupiter or Saturn. Moont an ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:24:57 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jan Stander Subject: Re: VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Brian A.Stuckless" wrote: Snip >..........a slight vacuum of only 4,461 Pa. (0.647pounds per sq. inch) >difference between the inside and the outside pressure, would affect >greater 'rigidity' due to the centrosymmetric structural loading, as a >result of the ' vacuum-induced ' external pressure causing 'skin >tension', than would the 10 deg.C difference in temperature required >to generate the same lift for the same structure in the ' thermal lift ' >(hot air) scenario... And achievable with much more lightweight skin >material due to that tension, and hence...less air displacement >required to generate the same lift ...or accessory capacity. > Somewhere in between on the range of possibility, a moderately >small diameter geodesic, of say less than 100 meters in diameter, >would need a very stiff lightweight frame, a fairly high-tensile skin, >and be able to withstand a relatively large pressure difference between >the outside and the inside. It's this range that requires added focus. =20 " vacuum-induced external pressure causing 'skin tension' " and "achievable with much more lightweight skin material due to that tension" Any external pressure loading will cause compressive stresses in the shell = and not tension. Although in theory a spherical structure should retain its symmetry under = a uniform external loading, in reality ,these pressure vessels will fail = due to through wall buckling. The buckling is a function of the compressive= stress and slenderness ratio (radius/thickness) aswell as other factors = (unsymetrical loading, local non-linearities and imperfections....) Regards Jan Stander ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:31:49 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know the details, but I understand that submarines or bathyspheres are designed in a way that takes advantage of the underwater pressure to increase the strength of the hull. The principles involved in submarines and airships are the same. Have they ever figured out how deep-sea creatures are able to survive the pressure? > > "Brian A.Stuckless" wrote: > > Snip > >..........a slight vacuum of only 4,461 Pa. (0.647pounds per sq. inch) > >difference between the inside and the outside pressure, would affect > >greater 'rigidity' due to the centrosymmetric structural loading, as a > >result of the ' vacuum-induced ' external pressure causing 'skin > >tension', than would the 10 deg.C difference in temperature required > >to generate the same lift for the same structure in the ' thermal lift ' > >(hot air) scenario... And achievable with much more lightweight skin > >material due to that tension, and hence...less air displacement > >required to generate the same lift ...or accessory capacity. > > Somewhere in between on the range of possibility, a moderately > >small diameter geodesic, of say less than 100 meters in diameter, > >would need a very stiff lightweight frame, a fairly high-tensile skin, > >and be able to withstand a relatively large pressure difference between > >the outside and the inside. It's this range that requires added focus. > > > " vacuum-induced external pressure causing 'skin > tension' " and "achievable with much more lightweight skin > material due to that tension" > Jan Stander wrote: > Any external pressure loading will cause compressive stresses in the shell and not tension. > > Although in theory a spherical structure should retain its symmetry under a uniform external loading, in reality ,these pressure vessels will fail due to through wall buckling. The buckling is a function of the compressive stress and slenderness ratio (radius/thickness) aswell as other factors (unsymetrical loading, local non-linearities and imperfections....) > > Regards > > Jan Stander ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:27:08 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer Comments: cc: afsnyder@aol.com In-Reply-To: <36B76898.E6799533@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >> > The BFI is growing and I thank you for helpingit get into the internet. >> > Faithfully, >> > >> > Michael S. Mitchell Yes, BFI is growing. Thank you for offering the Bucky + Anne Carbondale Dome to the BFI at one point. This was news to everybody, that you were so generous. All this time I thought you were holding out for 100K, but now you tell me you've been trying to *give it away to BFI* -- silly me for ever doubting your integrity. I invite GEODESIC to get involved in the next phase, which is planning the theme park and roadside cafe which BFI might want to spearhead, with volunteer input. We need more digital pictures of the dome itself, inside and out. Bill Perk, are you out there? Sounds like Mitchell is ready to renew his kind offer to give BFI the dome for free. This is indeed good news. I'm copying this to Allegra, as I bet she'll be pleased as punch. Michael, I hope you will make this official with BFI in the very near future so we can all celebrate this breakthrough. Thank you again for helping BFI get back on its feet. Kirby exBFI webmaster ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:23:55 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "GENI (Peter Meisen)" Subject: Scientific Literacy of politicians Comments: To: Bucky discussion group Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Fuller Friends, One year ago, I have met a charming senior women in San Diego who is a true Bucky student -- and she recently asked if I might help her find some additional information. She is not computer literate herself -- but a fine mind, and wants to put her thoughts into a book before "it's too late." Nancy Reeves wrote: One of Bucky's frustrations was the scientific illiteracy of politicians, even as science is now the machine of civilization. In 1969 he wrote: "For the first time in the history of man for the last ten years all the political theories and all the concepts of political functions . . . are completely obsolete." (Utopia or Oblivion Pg. 157) Along the way, he pointed to the trends that are already a reality, such as globalism, which eclipses the nation state, and the stunning transformations in travel and communications. I note especially his foreshadowing of alternative sources of energy: which make the obsession with fossil fuels archaic. Time marches on. And although Buckminster Fuller was prescient, he was modest enough to write: "The stage is soon to be radically altered due to the inexorable trendings in the sub or ultra visible alterations of man's relation to universe." I enquire whether other Bucky students can help identify for me the major revolutions in reality, effected by science, since Bucky's time. He cautioned that scientists, being specialists, tend to be occupied with their own evolutionary events, so they are disciplined to comprehend the integrating significance of the invisible activity "which is coalescing to reshape our future." (Ideas and Integrities, pg. 275-6) Yet thet is what we need to know. Can you help with this question? Sincerely, Nancy Reeves 849 Coast Blvd La Jolla, CA 92037 Note: You may respond to Mrs. Reeves directly by mail -- or you can respond by e-mail to GENI, and I will forward your answers. Thank you. Peter Meisen GLOBAL ENERGY NETWORK INSTITUTE Peter Meisen P.O.Box 81565 San Diego, CA 92138 (619) 595-0139 FAX: (619) 595-0403 Visit the GENI World Wide Web Home Page: http://www.geni.org/ Email: Internet: geni@cerf.net Compuserve: 75543.520@compuserve.com GENI is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation conducting education and research into the interconnection of renewable energy resources around the world. This was proposed as the highest priority objective from the World Game of 20th century visionary, Dr. R Buckminster Fuller. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:43:11 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:23:55 -0800, you wrote: >She is not computer literate herself -- but a fine mind, and wants to put >her thoughts into a book before "it's too late." Somewhat frustrating that someone frustrated about scientific illiteracy would be computer illiterate herself, meaning the web, networking by newsgroup and so on, are all off limits. This makes it hard to keep up, to have a book ready "before it's too late". Funneling everything through GENI hardly seems a solution either. Does Nancy really fail to see the irony in all this? You say she has a fine mind -- I guess I should snailmail this comment to find out if I agree. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:43:07 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: [Fwd: Fuller's Fantastic Geodesic Dome -Reply] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6ADF56F3E52A8D09E54983CC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6ADF56F3E52A8D09E54983CC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There could be more cross posting between GEODESIC and the DomeHome mailing list (http://www.seagull.net/rowley/DomeHome/index.html) (Like I need more duplicate messages clogging up my mailbox!) --------------6ADF56F3E52A8D09E54983CC Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >From DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com Wed Feb 03 16:59:19 1999 Received: from h19.hoflin.com ([209.180.245.133] (may be forged)) by ns1.texnet.net (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA01514 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:59:17 -0600 Received: from tech.management21.com by h19.hoflin.com with SMTP; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:51:49 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:55:58 -0600 To: From: The DomeHome List Subject: Fuller's Fantastic Geodesic Dome -Reply Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:24:00 -0500 From: Robert B Vance I hadn't heard of it, but since it's almost within sight of my office, I'll just have to initiate a "fact finding official study" and check it out! (by golly!) Incidently their web address is: www.nbm.org BobV! Has anyone out there been? http://wp-210.washingtonpost.com/E/E/WASDC/0000/62/55/ Fuller's Fantastic Geodesic Dome LOCATION: National Building Museum ADDRESS: 401 F St. NW, Washington 20001 HOURS: Sep 13,1998 Sun 1:00pm CROSS STREET: Fifth Street PRICES: $7 for ages 8 and up; $5 for members TICKET INFORMATION: For more information, call 202/272-3606. ======= To unsubscribe, write: requests@h19.hoflin.com ============ with this message: unsubscribe DomeHome-H =============== Post messages: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com ================= http://www.seagull.net/rowley/DomeHome/ Moderator du jour: jmr ( rowley@tech.management21.com ) ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list and subscribe to DOME at http://www.hoflin.com --------------6ADF56F3E52A8D09E54983CC-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:30:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No comment. Oh! Alfred North Whitehead's Dilemma.. Greetings!~ Peter: How do you suppose you will string your wire up for your power lines? What will it be made out of? Where will you start first? Where does RBF state that this is highest priority in his last 10 years of life? What date is it first sighted and last sighted? How much money has your company collected from the Convention for the 100 birthday party. Where did it go? Did you pay world game" What you stated your agreement would be?" Thank you for your co-operation in advance for informing us all. This is none of my business unless I give you money myself and what I do with my dome is none of anyone's business unless We wish to share it for being honest. Right! Michael S. Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:26:54 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 03 Feb 99 21:31:42 PST, you wrote: >Michael, Kirby and BFI ... > >Let me know what can be done here in good ol Carbondale ... I have not seen >Bill Perk since about September when Anthony Pugh was in town .. I think >that he is connected to the Emmeritus Proffessors of SIU doing community >work and out reach .. maybe he's in the book ... > >Paul Kosuth >Carbondale Here's Michael on Synergetics-L Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:20:42 +0000 "I offered the BFI the dome long ago and they turned it away... My brother has millions and he does not need the money right away. I am liking to get it into the hands of Carbondale and Bill Perk..." Michael clearly has tremendous respect for BFI and the family. If he offered BFI the dome in its early phase, maybe the staff didn't feel ready to take it on, because BFI was so small. But now the BFI is on the internet, has a growing website (including some key texts), plus 'Synergetics' is on the web and the word is spreading like wildfire that RBF had some great philosophy for a tired (but wired) world. This is a whole new ball game in 1999. I think if MSM renews his earlier generous offer, BFI will be able to pick up the ball and run with it. News to me BFI had turned down the Anne + Bucky Carbondale dome long ago. I'm trying to get to the bottom of all this. Probably Allegra knows more details. Why did BFI turn down this generous offer? Maybe '60 Minutes' will do a show on this (plus some other stuff) and help us figure out with the heck is going on -- all so murky, this BFI business. So many people want to assist, but nothing much ever happens (why don't we get TrimTab except maybe once a year -- and even I didn't get that, although I was told a long time ago I was a 'lifetime member of BFI' because of all the wonderful things I did for them for free over the years). At least Michael is willing to put his cards on the table. Sounds like he really doesn't need the money. So what's the deal this time? Let me know if you hear anything. I'll keep you posted. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:31:42 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU In-Reply-To: <36b88545.133016333@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael, Kirby and BFI ... Let me know what can be done here in good ol Carbondale ... I have not seen Bill Perk since about September when Anthony Pugh was in town .. I think that he is connected to the Emmeritus Proffessors of SIU doing community work and out reach .. maybe he's in the book ... Paul Kosuth Carbondale ---------- > >> > The BFI is growing and I thank you for helpingit get into the internet. > >> > Faithfully, > >> > > >> > Michael S. Mitchell > > Yes, BFI is growing. Thank you for offering the Bucky + Anne > Carbondale Dome to the BFI at one point. This was news to > everybody, that you were so generous. All this time I thought > you were holding out for 100K, but now you tell me you've > been trying to *give it away to BFI* -- silly me for ever > doubting your integrity. > > I invite GEODESIC to get involved in the next phase, which is > planning the theme park and roadside cafe which BFI might want > to spearhead, with volunteer input. We need more digital > pictures of the dome itself, inside and out. > > Bill Perk, are you out there? Sounds like Mitchell is ready > to renew his kind offer to give BFI the dome for free. This > is indeed good news. I'm copying this to Allegra, as I bet > she'll be pleased as punch. > > Michael, I hope you will make this official with BFI in the > very near future so we can all celebrate this breakthrough. > > Thank you again for helping BFI get back on its feet. > > Kirby > exBFI webmaster > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:55:11 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians In-Reply-To: <36B895DA.6FB68CD6@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:30:50 +0000, you wrote: >No comment. Oh! >Alfred North Whitehead's Dilemma.. Hmmm? >Greetings!~ >Peter: >How do you suppose you will string your wire up >for your power lines? A lot of the power lines are already "strung up" -- just need to connect them in a lot of cases. >What will it be made out of? You've been on your boat too long. Take a drive someday and see how the landlubbers do infrastructure. >Where will you start first? It's already mostly done. >Where does RBF state that this is highest priority >in his last 10 years of life? That's easy. In 'Critical Path', published in 1979, he writes: Graphs of each of the world's 150 nations showing their twentieth-century histories of inanimate energy production per capita of their respective populations together with graphs of those countries' birthrates show without exception that the birthrates decrease at exactly the same rate that the per capita consumption of inanimate electrical energy increases. The world's population will stop increasing when and if the integrated world electrical energy grid is realized. This grid is the World Game's highest priority objective. (See Fig. 36.) >How much money has your company collected >from the Convention for the 100 birthday party. >Where did it go? That was an excellent Centennial! My family even had the best suite in the Horton Grand! (http://www.hortongrand.com/) -- quite a surprise! I have a write-up of that most excellent and entertaining event at: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/geni.html >Did you pay world game" What you stated your >agreement would be?" Thank you for your >co-operation in advance for informing us all. >This is none of my business unless I give you >money myself and what I do with >my dome is none of anyone's business unless >We wish to share it for being honest. I think you've help make it everyone's business by posting so many details to public domain. Now we're all wondering what's stopping you from again offering it to the BFI for free, like you did a long time ago. I bet BFI won't turn you down this time. Go for it! We'll read about the award ceremony in TrimTab. You'll get a certificate of appreciation and a plaque in the Bucky Fuller Roadside Cafe, plus a big tax write-off for donating to charity (BFI is a 501(c)(3) incorporated in the State of California). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:00:02 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Mon Feb 1 00:00:01 PST 1999. 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(Can be in the same message.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:07:33 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians Comments: To: "GENI (Peter Meisen)" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Nancy Reeves wrote: > I enquire whether other Bucky students can help identify for me the major > revolutions in reality, effected by science, since Bucky's time. Although I would like to reference the advent of the Internet, certain shifts in government, and other changes since Bucky's death in 1983 as major revolutions in reality, they are not. Much of the world continue(d) on as was when these events happened and continues on with or without them now. Using Fuller's model, the Industrial revolution was the only real one (so far) because it changed things for the majority, not a minority. The only major revolution in reality since 1983 has been the advent of AIDS, ebola, antibiotic-resistant tuberculosis and similar new/renewed diseases. These, too, follow Fuller's model of changing things for the majority and not a minority. Anybody can get AIDS, but it takes some work to get online and only a tiny number of people to take down the Berlin Wall. Science has not met the challenge of these diseases, and so I conclude that there have been no major revolutions in reality effected by science since 1983. Yet. - Trevor -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:43:56 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "D. Ernest Sparks" Organization: Spencer Publications Subject: Re: concrete domes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Hissom wrote: > > Can you give me an opinion of concrete geodesic domes, like the ones made by > "American Ingenuity" I am thinking of building one and would like an opinion > other than theirs. Thanks. > > Michael I think the basic concept is great. However, I think a better approach, especially if distance, shipping costs, etc., are to be considered, is to erect the foam exterior without any coatings whatsoever. I built a 20-foot dome in 1990 as a prototype for this type of construction and it not only worked great but, is in wonderful shape to this day. I used five-inch thick EPS foam (the same foam as that used by AI), assembled it with a groove and tendon process, then coated the interior and exterior with two different materials. On the exterior I used a stucco-like material over a 1/2-inch fibreglass mesh (for impact resistance). Once that was cured I applied an elastomeric urethane coating with a UV barrier as a final coat. It not only worked great but comes in a five-gallon bucket. The interior was coated with a material called FoamCoat over the same type of fibreglass mesh. This effectively sandwiched the EPS foam. We are planning a 35-foot dome this spring in Northern California and contemplate using 10-inch thick walls with the same groove and tendon process. This simply means you cut a notch into the mating surfaces of the EPS foam. This is done with a "hot wire" which I can explain later, if you wish. It is so simple you won't believe it. I then cut another piece of EPS foam which fits sort of snug into the two corresponding slots. This goes together very easy and allowed us to assemble the entire 20-foot dome in a matter of an hour or less. I'm not kidding, it was that simple once we understood exactly what we were doing. Cutting and installing windows, doorways, skylites, etc., is also very simple. Incidentally, you can use "off the shelf" skylites if you wish rather than the triangular shapes normally required in dome construction. We used "off the floor" doors, etc for the prototype as well. Hope this is of help. Ernie@humanoid.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:58:52 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "GENI (Peter Meisen)" Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians In-Reply-To: <36B895DA.6FB68CD6@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >No comment. Oh! >Alfred North Whitehead's Dilemma.. >Greetings!~ >Peter: >How do you suppose you will string your wire up >for your power lines? Transmission lines exist throughout the developed world today. Approxiamately half the world is interconnected: North America, Western and Eastern Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan. Many regions are partially networked: Latin America, Southeast Asia, India, South Africa and China. Yet 2 billion people in the world (1/3 of humanity) remain unserved of any electrical benefits. Most of these people live in Africa, India, SE Asia and China. >What will it be made out of? The same metals that we use today: aluminum and copper alloy conductors, polymers and ceramics for insultion, steel alloys for towers and substations, etc. No new "invention" is required to build this infrastructure. >Where will you start first? As stated above, much of this network is in place. We benefit daily: through clean water and seage disposal, lighting and refrigeration, heating and cooling, communications, transport and economic functions. Note: The Global Energy Network Institute is a non-profit research and education organization. We help coordinate expert panel sessions through the IEEE Power Engineering Society, publish in numerous industry journals, exhibit and present at world conferences (e.g. World Energy Conference, International Development Conference, Rotary International), publish newsletters, videos, computer animations and a web site. Our function is to trimtab this global strategy for peace and sustainable onto the agenda of 200 world leaders and their advisors. GENI does not build any hardware. This is done by many of the world's largest engineering firms (e.g. ABB, Siemens, GE, and numerous utilities). Our job is to accelerate the interconnecting of renewable energy resources around the world -- within and between every nation. >Where does RBF state that this is highest priority >in his last 10 years of life? See "Critcal Path", Page 206. There are many other references in several books. >What date is it first sighted and last sighted? The first proposal for this global grid startagy was during the original World Gaming sessions in New York in 1969. There is excellent referenece in the Design Scince Decade documents from Bucky's days at SIU. >How much money has your company collected >from the Convention for the 100 birthday party. >Where did it go? Without going into all the financial details, our result was about a $20,000 loss. Our largest bills were for venues: UCSD Mandelville Center for the Opening Ceremony and World Games, SDSU Peterson Gym for the World Games and Closing Ceremony, Humphrey's by the Bay for the Concert, plus the World Game INstitute for 6 events. We also had two staff people working full time for the 6 months from January - July 1995. All debts were paid off over the next 18 months, and we continue to have excellent relations with all sponsors, suppliers and participants. We think is was an outstanding gathering of Bucky's ideas, artifacts, associates and students. >Did you pay world game" What you stated your >agreement would be?" Yes. And we produced 2 more World Game events with Medard Gabel in San Diego and Santa Barbara in 1997. Both Medard and I spoke on a panel session last month at the International Development Conference in Washington on the subject, "New technologies to make the world work for everyone." GENI is always looking for partners and sponsors to host the World Game. We have the opportunity to include the World Game at the next State of the World Forum in San Francisco in October. We are presently seeking a sponsor(s) for the $10,000 budget. Thank you for your >co-operation in advance for informing us all. >This is none of my business unless I give you >money myself and what I do with >my dome is none of anyone's business unless The GENI Initiative is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization -- and we welcome all tax-deductible support. You can contact us at all the numbers below. In partnership for the planet, Peter Meisen >We wish to share it for being honest. >Right! >Michael S. Mitchell GLOBAL ENERGY NETWORK INSTITUTE Peter Meisen P.O.Box 81565 San Diego, CA 92138 (619) 595-0139 FAX: (619) 595-0403 Visit the GENI World Wide Web Home Page: http://www.geni.org/ Email: Internet: geni@cerf.net Compuserve: 75543.520@compuserve.com GENI is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation conducting education and research into the interconnection of renewable energy resources around the world. This was proposed as the highest priority objective from the World Game of 20th century visionary, Dr. R Buckminster Fuller. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:28:49 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: GLOBAL ENERGY GRID STATUS Comments: To: geni@cerf.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE5053.108C7260" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE5053.108C7260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, Is there any organized way of keeping track of the status of the Global Energy Grid? For example: Proposed minimum grid (map) Sections completed now (map) Sections to be completed in next ? months (map) Estimated time to final minimum completion I know that bits & pieces are being constructed, but there doesn't seem to be any one place where a person can go to see what's happening. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE5053.108C7260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peter,
 
Is=20 there any organized way of keeping track of the status of the Global = Energy=20 Grid?
 
For=20 example:
 
Proposed minimum grid (map)
Sections completed now (map)
Sections to be completed in next ? months=20 (map)
Estimated time to final minimum completion
 
I know=20 that bits & pieces are being constructed, but there doesn't seem to = be any=20 one place where a person can go to see what's = happening.

Joe S Moore =
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com=20
Buckminster Fuller = Virtual=20 Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

 
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE5053.108C7260-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:41:02 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: CONFERENCE Comments: To: geni@cerf.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5054.C52D2E20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5054.C52D2E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, Any future GENI conferences should also be available via the Internet (real-time audio/video, etc?) for those who are unable to physically attend. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5054.C52D2E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peter,
 
Any=20 future GENI conferences should also be available via the Internet = (real-time=20 audio/video, etc?) for those who are unable to physically attend.=20

Joe S Moore =
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com=20
Buckminster Fuller = Virtual=20 Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5054.C52D2E20-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:37:49 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >We think is was an outstanding gathering of Bucky's ideas, artifacts, >associates and students. > I heartily agree. Well organized and highly rewarding for many of us who participated. Kirby PS: Michael S. Mitchell posted on Synergetics-L about meeting me at this event, in Jay Baldwin's company, and maybe selling him a copy of 'Synergetics'. However, I'm certain he has me confused with someone else, as I don't remember him, didn't know Jay Baldwin back then, and sold no books to anyone at this event. As I mentioned in my last post, I did supply a personal narrative account, which is simply of my own experiences and perspectives at the time -- includes some of my photographs: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/geni.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:44:27 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Space-Frame Architecture at Expo 67 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Expo 67 - Architecture 'Perhaps the most innovative concept to be used at Expo was "space- frame" architecture. In an effort to "Do more with Less" architects covered large spaces cheaply and flexibly, by distributing the building's weight over a wide area, and by using complex techniques involving aluminum, plastic and other materials. The pavilions that used that technique were the United States pavilion, the Netherlands pavilion, the West German pavilion and the two big theme complexes, Man the Producer and Man the Explorer.' The walls of Britain's castle-like pavilion were made of a kind of cardboard that looked like stone. Many structures are illustrated. http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/expo67/map-docs/architecture.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:40:11 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians <> Brian Hutchings 05-FEB-1999 0:40 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us "Bucky saith" does ipso facto not make, m'dear ms.Reeves. for instance, not only are "fossil fuels" not, necessarily, "archaic", they are also not foosilized!... what Bucky had t'say about "all political theories...are obsolete" should be confined in tehir relavence to the rather Torified nostrums of the Transcendentalists (and Aunt Margaret F.Ossoli); in other words, "globalism" (or "globality", as someone called it at Davos) ain't necessarily a good thing -- the Empire was *always* global. so, I think, it's perfectly OK to ask about Bucky's ignorance, re things both "political" and scientific; I mean is it? further readings on "major revolutions in reality" are available, from 800/453-4108 (New Benjamin Franklin Publishing House .-) --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:28:34 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians In-Reply-To: <199902050840.AAA05472@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > so, I think, it's perfectly OK to ask about Bucky's ignorance, > re things both "political" and scientific; I mean is it? Sure. But pushing someone else's political views is not to deprecate Bucky's -- is merely to push someone else's. You have to find specific errors in 'Critical Path' (for example) and harp on them, showing where they break down. Best to not over-capitalize on stuff already labeled "Speculative" as any thinker has license to speculate, especially if so labeling their warez. This was precisely my approach (to investigating Fuller's veracity vs. ignorance) in the early/mid-1980s, as 'Critical Path' contained some strategic/military info that was factual enough to cross-check against open sources (or so I presumed). So I wrote the the 'Washington Post', Pentagon (Casper et al), Center for Defense Information and so on -- plus scanned through libraries etc. That Fuller had gotten a Medal of Freedom from Ronnie was factored in to my letters (which were journalistic in nature, like "enquiring minds want to know" -- I had my American Press or something to back me up). Like, if a decorated USA hero is putting this stuff in the open files, there's no call to keep it under wraps. Given my reasoning was ironclad at the time, the only rational conclusion is that Fuller was dead wrong re his claims. So there ya go. I also note that Bucky's info about the spread of omni- triangulation and the inadequacy of various maps, leading the USA to bomb some of its own troops in Sicily, was rejected for posting to a WWII newsgroup (moderated) until I filled in a little more about the source: decorated USA hero -- then it appeared for scholars to do their cross- checking. > further readings on "major revolutions in reality" are available, > from 800/453-4108 (New Benjamin Franklin Publishing House .-) Kiyoshi and I peaked through a gate and Ben's old publishing house in Philly -- I think it's a restored copy actually, if I recall. Then we went and peaked at the Liberty Bell. This was after some great haute cuisine at The Fork and a meeting with Medard Gabel (WGI director) earlier that day. I was in town as AFSC corporation member. > --The End Was Nigh! > http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm Oh yeah, I wrote the the Office of the Vice President about some of this stuff too -- George Bush at that time. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:03:29 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Design Science Toys Links Comments: To: Stuart Quimby In-Reply-To: <36BB1B59.1FF4D06F@ulster.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stu, Thanks for the update. I am continuing to update my site ASAP and will be adding links to your site under "Links/Organizations", "Links/People" and "Links/Geometry/Models". Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart Quimby [mailto:stuq@ulster.net] > Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 8:25 AM > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Design Science Toys Links > > Dear Mr. Moore; > > Many thanks for your excellent site, which I have referred to often to > "fill in the cracks" of my own research. I wanted to alert you to the > existence (finally) of our company web site (listed below) listing our > products and (eventually) containing many other resources of interest to > Synergetic Explorers. A cursory search through your site at what I > considered the most likely cross references yielded no hits. I would > appreciate if you could include us where you saw fit. > > ------------------------------ > Stuart Quimby > President, Design Science Toys Ltd. > phone: 914.756.4221 > fax: 914.756.4223 > email: stuq@dstoys.com > web: http://www.dstoys.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:39:48 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Scientific Literacy of politicians In-Reply-To: <36bc2624.305297109@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >Kiyoshi and I peaked through a gate and Ben's old publishing ^^^^^^ peeked >house in Philly -- I think it's a restored copy actually, if >I recall. Then we went and peaked at the Liberty Bell. This ^^^^^^ peeked But then again, it was a "summit meeting" in a lot of ways (so good pun!). I'd never met with Kiyoshi before and was very pleased to discover what an Olympic-class athelete he is (metaphysically speaking). I hadn't really met with Medard before either. My sense is his "net world game" was so close to being the emerging template reality for so many kids these days (having the net at their finger tips, ideas about how to improve the world brimming over in their contemplative moments -- if away from mass media hype long enough to do any of their own thinking at all), that it was somewhat inevitable WGI would catalyze and crystallize "with the grain" of the overall curriculum. So I reject the characterization, circulated by some, that WGI simply "wasted the money" ($350K) just because we can't point to a specific, formalized, WGI-trademarked result. The Fuller Projection is on the web, as is 'Synergetics'. We have listservs. Global audio and video streaming is in the wings or going live even now (and we can patch MP3 streaming to radio broadcast stations -- so you don't even have to be net-aware at the time). So it's happening, and WGI played a role bringing us to this state. Here's more on that from alt.philosophy.debate (via Deja News): http://x16.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=439856905&CONTEXT=918243162.1789591815 Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:19:53 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: kfiedler Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Subject: Re: Cardboard furniture again >Was thinking the original comment, "Card board homes are shick" had more to >do with a little tongue-n-cheek about this decade's homeless situation - >perhaps. > >Ironic too in contrast with Buck Fuller's well known aspirations to >design/provide affordable housing. Is there really anyone else today >attempting to create inexpensive structures on the same level and magnitude >- regardless of the construction material? > I work for Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, a 50-year-old non-profit R&D organization. I'm in the Aerospace and Training Systems Division, but the Institue also has a very interesting Materials Research division. I've seen them recently experimenting with building houses out of what looks like polystyrene and spraying it with various test coatings that look like concrete with some other composites mixed in. If you're interested I could help you find out more about what they're doing. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:25:10 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "D. Ernest Sparks" Organization: Spencer Publications Subject: Geodesic terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can someone explain in simple, lay language the meaning of 3/8s, 5/8s, etc? How does this apply to Bucky's design? I'm really interested in dome design and application in the real world. Thank you in advance. ernie@humanoid.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:48:55 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Curt Flowers Organization: University of Illinois Subject: Re: Geodesic terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually the x/8 is a misnomer. It was coined in the late 60's (in the "Domebook"s?)to indicate how much of a sphere the dome represented. A 3 frequncy icosahedron, vertex zenith, alternate breakdown geodesic dome, the most popular type, had "hoizontal" lines of struts at the 1/9, 2/9, 3/9, etc. divisions of the sphere. How much of the sphere you had in the dome was represnted by a fraction.. There's actually 9 slices of the sphere deliniated by the lines of struts. Where the first guy got the x/eigths notation is beyond me.  (maybe, he was smokin' some of the strut material. :-) )

Hope this answers your question.
    Curt Flowers, Illinois

D. Ernest Sparks wrote:

Can someone explain in simple, lay language the meaning of 3/8s, 5/8s,
etc? How does this apply to Bucky's design?

I'm really interested in dome design and application in the real world.

Thank you in advance.

ernie@humanoid.net

========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:28:27 -0700 Reply-To: bward@metro.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bruce M Ward Organization: Polymath Productions Subject: Re: Cardboard furniture again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kfiedler wrote: > > I work for Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, a 50-year-old > non-profit R&D organization. I'm in the Aerospace and Training Systems > Division, but the Institue also has a very interesting Materials Research > division. I've seen them recently experimenting with building houses out of > what looks like polystyrene and spraying it with various test coatings that > look like concrete with some other composites mixed in. If you're > interested I could help you find out more about what they're doing. SIR!! :<) I would LOVE to read more along this line from you! And Mr. Sparks, I'd like to hear more about your dome plan in Northern California. I live between Sebastopol and Occidental and am still noodling my design. We intend to dome over an existing flat roofed clump of add ons to the original 1949 "cottage" box and then remove the roof and most of the walls. The northeast side will be buried in the slope with southwest exposure and view. Anyway, I can offer a day or two to help you and learn/practice something I'm interested in... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:29:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: Geodesic terms Comments: To: "D. Ernest Sparks" In-Reply-To: <36BA48AB.4BC445C5@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, D. Ernest Sparks wrote: > Can someone explain in simple, lay language the meaning of 3/8s, 5/8s, > etc? How does this apply to Bucky's design? Imagine cutting a tomato into sections. You have a little one at the end, then bigger slices in the middle, then little ones at the other end. The most common kind of geodesic sphere for architecture is "three frequency" (defined below). A three frequency sphere has eight 'slices.' A 3/8 sphere would be three slices of the geodesic tomato. 5/8 would be five slices. Etc. Geodesic spheres are made up of pentagons (of triangles) and hexagons (of triangles). If you measure the number of triangle edges between the center of one pentagon and another pentagon, you get the frequecy. Higher frequencies are more spherical, lower frequencies are more angular. - Trevor -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:05:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you have the address for Stone the Morris friend he maybe interested in repaying me for all my hard work for making all the audio tapes in the archives and making the park. Please ignore Kirby for he is a flopping fish. Out to make trouble for everyone he can that has Fuller artifacts that he can not control. I do not want to fight with him anymore it is a lost cause. The dome is for sale for a donor to take a tax deduction that is very lucrative for the donor as well as for public relations when after it is bought and made into a historical site. When donated after put on the registry it will increase in tax advantage 5 to 10 times for appraisal. prkosuth wrote: > Michael, Kirby and BFI ... > > Let me know what can be done here in good ol Carbondale . I have over 20 renters wanting to rent the dome in 1 week and will rent it for 2 years in about a week from now. So if anyone wants to buy it and donate it - do it now for the year 2K. I will be hard pressed to sell it with rent guaranteed for 2 years paid by the semester. If a donor is found I will give some money to BFI after wards for my tax right off and make my tapes available for all to hear. http://home.earthlink/~syntrivity/index.html Thank you for your concern. Michael S. Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:04:57 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Darek Organization: Politechnika Subject: embankments defromations Looking for some dates about deformations of embankments. Please help. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:17:17 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer In-Reply-To: <36BC9275.E7AB646B@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:05:25 +0000, you wrote: >Do you have the address for Stone the Morris friend he maybe >interested in repaying me for all my hard work for making all >the audio tapes in the archives and making the park. >Please ignore Kirby for he is a flopping fish. Out to >make trouble for everyone he can that has Fuller >artifacts that he can not control. I do not >want to fight with him anymore it is a lost cause. I was merely posting the news that you had offered the Carbondale dome to BFI before, free of charge (or so you told us). My hope was that you would renew your offer and this time we would all find out the logic behind BFI's turning it down (I expected BFI might actually accept this time). The BFI could work with Bill Perk and company to set up a roadside cafe or something, with reading rooms for people to learn about Bucky and Anne (the dome's former occupants) and the design science revolution. Of course I do not control what you do with the dome, nor have I much input into BFI's decision-making, except for a while back there in the realm of website design, and what's at www.bfi.org now is no longer my work anymore (except the community links page, which was cloned from my own http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/artindex.html when the new webmaster took over). It's entirely your choice and your responsibility what you do with your assets. I thought we saw a glimmer of hope there for a sec, an opening, given your previous offer of the dome to BFI (which you first shared about on my Synergetics-L). Now I realize I was mistaken (forgive me for supposing you had so much integrity). You're still holding out for $100K -- or else plan to rent with at least a 2-year agreement. End of story. I notice you have incorporated my mention of a tax write- off but of course that's only if your buyer donates the dome to charity (e.g. to BFI). Once someone pays you that high price for the dome, I don't expect you'll have any say in what happens next (you will have no stake in the property, once it's sold), and any of the kudos for turning that asset into a theme park or whatever will accrue to the buyer/donor, not to you, who walk off stage with $100K (before capital gains tax). Don't expect anyone to remember you as the founder of this park. If anything, you were the obstinate fellow who delayed realization of this dream. But then of course there's the Jay Baldwin school of thought, which is that Bucky was never really into these chintzy plywood thingys, which represent more of the same dark ages thinking, the guild-based construction industry ripping off his 4D geometry to give their tired "craft and graft" sector a new lease on life (yes, I'm being polemical -- but lets get real, you can find plenty to support what I'm saying in his own writings, plenty!). Bucky desperately wanted his aerospace sector dwelling machines to show up, but never really got to live in one himself, because the surrounding culture was not up to speed (Malthusians are so slooooooow -- I know, I know "gestation rates" and blah blah blah). As to all your audio tapes, I know you're asking a high price for those too, but don't provide a manifest of what they contain. Are the tapes each dated with time and place? If they're just thrown in a box and not meticulously archived, then their worth is much less than otherwise. So I advise you to be very forth- coming with details if you expect to sell those tapes over the internet to a collector at a fair price. Really, I know so many people who collaborated with Bucky and worked much much harder than you have to make this world a better place. Everything you've done you now seem to want to capitalize upon towards money-making ends. You have very little in common with Bucky that I can see, at the philo- sophical level, your "unitivity" bullshit notwithstanding. Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're tired of sparring with me. It's all been a very forgettable experience and I'm looking forward to leaving it behind. The Carbondale dome is not on the critical path in any way. I trust your renters will be happy campers and you'll continue reaping whatever you sew, as their absentee landlord. Not my problem, not my focus, not my concern. God bless. Urner out. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:51:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have already donated the 50,000 dollars of audio tapes to the archive and they are dated and filed. This was the traveling costs to make them alone over the years. Inwhich really went from 1967 to 1983. I was only on the road with him from 1967 to about 1974 when Jamie took over. Jamie and I and Bucky met in Kenyon College. That is when I stepped out of the way to let Jamie take over the tapes. I still did many tapes for the next 10 years when Jamie or Ron was not their. I have helped the BFI with those tapes more than you ever will and you are as crazy as they get, with your persistent jealousy. You have lowered yourself to not being truthful to gain ego mincingly pleasure. http://home.earthlink/~syntrivity/index.html You are the only one that has told me that my ideas concerning unitivity have nothing to offer. Thank you for your opinion. Just what is it that you disagree with from my notes on unitivity. Your revengeful audacity to betray all that you stand for is rather over specialized. To lie about something and start rumors as you do about everyone that is out of your control with Fuller artifacts makes me wonder how you can go on with out saying your sorry. You spit on your own bible. Eat your snakes heads and all. I give you the NAGA sign only done by Buddha to save someone's soul from evil. i hope that you can forget about any more communication aimed at me for your exhausted pleasure of pain. Must be a bad childhood. I love you. I have the flu right now and do not have the energy to fight much right now. Thank you for all your insight and eat another snake. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:14:42 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer In-Reply-To: <36BCD57C.63536152@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:51:24 +0000, you wrote: >I have already donated the 50,000 dollars of audio tapes to the >archive and they are dated and filed. This was the traveling costs >to make them alone over the years. I was talking about the tapes you're trying to sell. Lots of people have donated valuable stuff to the BFI of course. There's some concern about the magnetic media in particular if steps haven't been taken to properly preserve them -- not a concern that originated with me and again, I have no control over the BFI in these matters, nor do I wish it (although of course we all want the chronofile adequately preserved, obviously, and that's the central mission of the BFI as I see it -- keeping the physical archives in order). >I have helped the BFI with those tapes more than you ever >will and you are as crazy as they get, with your persistent >jealousy. You have lowered yourself to not being truthful >to gain ego mincingly pleasure. I'm not jealous and wouldn't trade places with you for anything in the world. I'm doing just fine in my neck of the woods and am not greedily holding out for bucks before continuing on with my work, much of which is highly consistent with the design science agenda as spelled out in Bucky's writings. Certainly I am in no way apologetic for the positive difference I've made, that's for sure. Sorry for what? I can't see how you can stand to live with yourself, so obviously we don't see eye to eye. So what else is new? >You are the only one that has told me that my ideas >concerning unitivity have nothing to offer. Thank you >for your opinion. Just what is it that you disagree with >from my notes on unitivity. I think a lot of people are more polite about "unitivity" than I am. Some think you're mentally disabled and tell me to stop picking on you for that reason. I disagree with their reading of the situation. >Your revengeful audacity to betray all that you stand >for is rather over specialized. To lie about something >and start rumors as you do about everyone that is >out of your control with Fuller artifacts makes me >wonder how you can go on with out saying your sorry. What's the lie? You yourself said you offered BFI the dome for free but the BFI turned down your offer. If this turns out to be untrue, you will have a LOT of explaining to do. I'm still investigating the matter. I hoped you were up to renewing your offer, since nothing has changed. >You spit on your own bible. >Eat your snakes heads and all. >I give you the NAGA sign only done by Buddha to >save someone's soul from evil. i hope that you >can forget about any more communication aimed >at me for your exhausted pleasure of pain. But maybe they're right, I shouldn't keep picking on you. Time to forget the whole business (except the investigation into your previous offer, which is ongoing). >Must be a bad childhood. I love you. >I have the flu right now and do not have >the energy to fight much right now. Thank you >for all your insight and eat another snake. I did eat snake soup once in Kwang Chou (sp?). Had cobra in it I think, forget what else. And yes, tasted like chicken. Maybe you should try some, for better health. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:27:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gordon Rumson Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, I made the mistake of reading this message. A sad tale to tack on to the work of Buckminster Fuller. As I have said before, if this is what Fuller's works engender then they should all be burned. Sadly, the geodesic list has become a mud slinging match that shames Fuller. Anyone out there who MIGHT have been convinced to investigate, or take seriously, the ideas of Fuller is likely to be turned off by coming across this garbage. Personally, I am even beginning to doubt whether anything good can be made of Fuller's ideas at this time. It may be that the next civilisation will take up those ideas they find congenial and wonder, as we do about the Greeks and the steam engine, why we didn't follow through. Clearly, what we shall have to answer is that as humans we were too small, petty, vindictive and stupid for the ideas. So here's a message to our descendants, a thousand (or so) years hence: "May you prove to be better humans than we." Gordon Rumson (planning to sign off Geodesic -- sadly just before he submitted an article on the electric grid to the list. Please don't emailing me asking for a copy. I will not send it out at this point). ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:44:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gordon > Personally, I am even beginning to doubt whether Gordon > anything good can be made of Fuller's ideas at this time. Buck up, Gordon. I am still making domes and having a heck of a time. I simply ignore the infighting; that's what mail filters and delete keys are for. :o) Dave http://w3.one.net/~monkey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:03:10 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer Comments: cc: rumsong@CADVISION.COM In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:27:11 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings, > >I made the mistake of reading this message. > >A sad tale to tack on to the work of Buckminster Fuller. As I have said >before, if this is what Fuller's works engender then they should all be >burned. Gordon -- I guess I'll have to part company here. Your wounded, offended tone is too self-righteous for my taste. Given human nature remains at work, it's completely inevitable that some bickering, flaming, mud- slinging or whatever you want to call it will occur. Nor is it totally out of place as design science is not a missionary endeavour to change human nature nor make us all pretend this is one big happy family, minus any divisiveness. To suggest that everyone be on their best stuffed-shirt behavior because we don't want to give Bucky-related topics any bad PR is disingenuous. I am not familiar with any discipline, academic or otherwise, which doesn't have its share of ugliness. Your picking up your marbles and going home, withholding your participation to register your disapproval of others, is just more of the same, predictable, human pattern. Some people coming to this list, and finding ugliness in some threads, will actually be encouraged, as it appears that honest, open communications are not forbidden in this neck of the woods, and there's no attempt to hide whatever bickering in some back room, while only a pleasant smiley face is offered to the public. Bucky himself was very up front about his personal life with the groups he addressed in public, didn't hide when there was conflict, tension, stress. This had a lot to do with his integrity, and the resultant powerful spin he was able to apply to his own artifacts. He looked reality in the eye and didn't blink -- more than can be said for a lot of us I'd hazard. On the whole, Geodesic is a fairly moderately toned list. That it should occasionally get heated, that insults should now and then be flung, is neither cause for dismay nor a condition that needs to be rectified. Work is getting done. Fuller's agenda is being implemented. I doubt there's anything you can do to stop this -- no turning back at this stage in the game. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:17:01 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: More positive developments on the Synergetics front In-Reply-To: <36BC6D52.1B18@metro.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Those of you into Fuller's core philosophy (Synergetics), and not just into domes, will especially appreciate the positive long term implications of having postings like this archived via newsgroups and Deja News. -- Kirby ===================== Fwd: Math Forum post re OOP/quadrays (re March 1999 article) Author: Kirby Urner Date: 1999/02/07 Forum: sci.math Original post in context of archived thread is at Math Forum: http://forum.swarthmore.edu/epigone/geometry-research/skexkhangax (see entry under Feb 6 -- others in same thread for context). ================================================================ Subject: Article on Quadrays in March 1999 FoxPro Advisor Author: Kirby Urner Date: 6 Feb 99 18:33:25 -0500 (EST) My article touching on quadrays in the context of 'Teaching Object-Oriented Programming with Visual FoxPro' is now in circulation, in the March 1999 issue of FoxPro Advisor, The Developer's Guide to Microsoft Visual FoxPro and FoxPro 2.x, ADVISOR MEDIA Inc., starting on page 48. The primary web page reference is to: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quadrays.html -- part of my Oregon Curriculum Network website (OCN). This page links to numerous related papers and downloadable source code, including to a Java implementation which includes code for converting back and forth among xyz, polar and quadray coordinates. For those unfamiliar with quadrays, this Neo-Cartesian system uses 4-tuples instead of the familiar xyz 3-tuples, labeling the origin as (0,0,0,0) and the 4 basis vectors to the vertices of a regular tetrahedron as (1,0,0,0)(0,1,0,0)(0,0,1,0) and (0,0,0,1). These four vectors span volume (given vector addition and scalar multiplication of the usual sort), giving a unique, simplest-terms 4-tuple (a,b,c,d) for each point, with at least one term equal to zero and the rest positive.[1] (n,n,n,n) is an additive identity i.e. Q + (n,n,n,n) = Q -- because (n,n,n,n) simply represents four equal vectors to the corners of a regular tetrahedron with a zerovector net. Given all basis rays are positive, no simplest-terms 4-tuple includes any negatives, although the negation operator does have a clear meaning (same as in xyz -- changes a vector's orientation by 180 degrees). For example: -(1,1,0,0) = (-1,-1,0,0) = (-1,-1,0,0) + (1,1,1,1) [identity] = (0,0,1,1). My implementation of quadrays nests the "home base" tetrahedron in a unit-radius spheres packing context (fcc) and also defines this tetrahedron to be the unit of volume. The home base tetrahedron and its self-dual, a tetrahedron with quadray coordinates (0,1,1,1)(1,0,1,1)(1,1,0,1)(1,1,1,0) -- the negatives of the four above -- intersect to define the cube of volume 3. This cube's dual, an octahedron with coordinates (1,1,0,0) (1,0,1,0)(1,0,0,1)(0,1,1,0)(0,1,0,1)(0,0,1,1), has a volume of 4. The rhombic dodecahedron, with cube + octahedron vertices, has a volume of 6, and is a space-filler within which the unit-radius fcc spheres nest and "kiss" through the face centers (12 K-points where long and short diagonals of the 12 rhombic faces intersect, and where long diagonal is equal in length to the inter-spheric center-to-center prime vector of 1 interval = 2 radii). The cuboctahedron with quadray coordinates {2,1,1,0} -- where the curly braces signify "all 12 permutations of the enclosed terms" -- has a volume of 20.[2] The above cited article mentions all of this in passing, but is primarily about how to use Visual FoxPro in conjunction with freeware off the internet to (a) render colorful geometric shapes of intrinsic interest to students (including geodesic spheres -- website) and (b) learn object oriented programming concepts in the process. Those of you who have explored the interface between 20th century philosophy and geometry will recognize the above approach to volumetric mensuration, with the tetrahedron as primary, as essentially the same as the one pioneered by Dr. R. B. Fuller in his '4D geometry' -- wherein '4D' refers neither to "3D + Time," nor to Cartesian hyperspace, but to the tetrahedron's paradigmatic status as the minimal volumetric system.[3] In Fuller's '4D geometry', all objects are ab initio volumetric, even if we restrict their degrees of freedom to a plane or a point, i.e. no 'dimension ladder' with rungs labeled 0,1,2,3 (with fractional dimension interpolations) is natively defined in this particular philosophical language. Traditional classroom geometry ports to this alternative definitional environment with only minor conceptual and terminological adjustments i.e. Euclidean and Cartesian language games co-exist with 4D geometry without significant friction in this new curriculum context. The quadrays apparatus has been developed by individuals working solo, at first unbeknownst to one another, but coming together via the internet to contribute various puzzle pieces. The article identifies some of the key players in passing, with more details at my website.[4] As for myself, I am more an implementor than an inventor of the quadrays game, and do not push them at my website as any kind of "next big thing". I'm personally most interested in using quadrays in low key fashion as one more pedagogical device for assisting in philosophical investigations into the definitional framework (cultural) within which our mathematical style of thinking is embedded, in directions pioneered by the late philosopher-engineer Ludwig Wittgenstein.[5] Kirby [1] although it makes sense to hyperlink quadrays to barycentric coordinates for pedagogical purposes, quadrays are not a subspecies of the barycentrics. Quadrays also include analogous implementations as planar or linear games i.e. Linear: <-|---------*---------|-> (0,1) (0,0) (1,0) and: Planar: (0,0,1) | | | * (0,0,0) / \ / \ / \ (1,0,0) (0,1,0) [2] Robert Gray has proved David Chako's conjecture that any tetrahedron with fcc vertices will have a whole number volume relative to the unit-volume tetrahedron comprised of 4 intertangent unit-radius fcc spheres (i.e. the quadrays "home base" tetrahedron). It follows that any tetrahedralizable volume with fcc vertices is likewise whole-number volumed. [3] '4D geometry' is embedded within Fuller's "explorations in the geometry of thinking" or "synergetic-energetic geometry" or "synergetics" for short, a 20th century philosophy originally published in two volumes, by R. Buckminster Fuller, USA Medal of Freedom winner, and E.J. Applewhite, former deputy inspector general of the CIA. This work is now available on the web via my http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/links.html, thanks to Robert Gray et al. [4] cite http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quadintro.html [5] cite http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quadphil.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Math Forum -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:36:34 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Yet more + synergetics-related developments! In-Reply-To: <36c0f343.488907657@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Yet more positive developments -- for those of you with QuickTime movie-viewing capability. In the last few minutes, Gerald de Jong has announced the winners of the first avatars building contest, using his Struck freeware (for building tensegrities and other elastic interval geometry "strucktures"). The evolution of Struck and its surrounding user-community has been one of the most encouraging developments in synergetics-related activities post 'Synergetics' itself. See: http://www.beautifulcode.nl/cinema/avatars/ This will definitely be helpful in our ongoing work to phase Struck into classrooms, as a kid-friendly interactive tool for exploring spatial geometry and tensegrity. Struck is also feeding into the ActiveWorlds community (where "avatars" are the real time puppets which users control in virtual space), with assistance from Bonnie DeVarco, Fuller School luminary/archivist from BFI's golden age (married to Tony DeVarco, exBFI Director and co-producer of the satellite mosaic version of the Fuller Projection -- later with WorldSat and World Game). For an idea of what ActiveWorlds is all about, check out Bonnie's recent web-based transcript of a recent demo at: http://www.cruzio.com/~devarco/biolearn/lunchclub1.htm Kirby (aka "fignewton" and "kurzon" in the transcript) PS: if you have IRC and want to join us right now (conversation in progress), we're on the #struck channel, on an EFNet server (Primenet). We meet Sundays at this time, as per Struck community web page (accessible via my http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/links.html) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:28:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gordon Rumson Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Buck up, Gordon. I am still making domes and having a heck of a time. I >simply ignore the infighting; that's what mail filters and delete keys are >for. :o) > >Dave http://w3.one.net/~monkey Greetings, Well said! All best wishes for your work! Gordon Rumson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:47:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer MESSAGE from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU 07-FEB-1999 14:18 On Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:27:11 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings, > >I made the mistake of reading this message. > >A sad tale to tack on to the work of Buckminster Fuller. As I have said >before, if this is what Fuller's works engender then they should all be >burned. Gordon -- I guess I'll have to part company here. Your wounded, offended tone is too self-righteous for my taste. Given human nature remains at work, it's completely inevitable that some bickering, flaming, mud- slinging or whatever you want to call it will occur. Nor is it totally out of place as design science is not a missionary endeavour to change human nature nor make us all pretend this is one big happy family, minus any divisiveness. To suggest that everyone be on their best stuffed-shirt behavior because we don't want to give Bucky-related topics any bad PR is disingenuous. I am not familiar with any discipline, academic or otherwise, which doesn't have its share of ugliness. Your picking up your marbles and going home, withholding your participation to register your disapproval of others, is just more of the same, predictable, human pattern. Some people coming to this list, and finding ugliness in some threads, will actually be encouraged, as it appears that honest, open communications are not forbidden in this neck of the woods, and there's no attempt to hide whatever bickering in some back room, while only a pleasant smiley face is offered to the public. Bucky himself was very up front about his personal life with the groups he addressed in public, didn't hide when there was conflict, tension, stress. This had a lot to do with his integrity, and the resultant powerful spin he was able to apply to his own artifacts. He looked reality in the eye and didn't blink -- more than can be said for a lot of us I'd hazard. On the whole, Geodesic is a fairly moderately toned list. That it should occasionally get heated, that insults should now and then be flung, is neither cause for dismay nor a condition that needs to be rectified. Work is getting done. Fuller's agenda is being implemented. I doubt there's anything you can do to stop this -- no turning back at this stage in the game. Kirby - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 07-FEB-1999 15:47 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Kirby, why does this not come to me through the list? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:15:22 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: nsibwx@THE-FAQ.ORG Subject: + + + + FAQ for this newsgroup + + + + 2794 FAQ for this newsgroup at at http://home-3.worldonline.nl/~696 , latest update > dmqskhnknojgcwrvcwvzvfjihpeemnhjistzqhsqmruinmxqwuyyfkxctuneguqndghhdsrsdctfvsr fpgvtioxuryghwqqcekzgwotvydynckgsuojzgoppomdfmyncwrsnyrednggxhnuiyeflzhiqyuynbp puwmeskzfsivicmxseqlfqpshdjhnxpmeiqefpgmfuyhbrrngkkvehdrvdiiocfonusdnslxjowbdix hrfs ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 04:08:57 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer In-Reply-To: <199902072347.PAA26932@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT ><> Brian Hutchings 07-FEB-1999 15:47 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > Kirby, why does this not come to me through the list? How did it come then? Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:32:29 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: (fwd) Re: [MATHEDCC] Geometry Software Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:09:50 GMT, urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU (Kirby Urner) wrote: On Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:39:08 EST, you wrote: >Hello: > >I am looking for a reasonably priced software program that allows one to >create geometric objects and then import (embed) them into Word. It needs >to run on a Windows O/S. Preferrably something that would be useful for >teaching, writing exams/worksheets and for students as well. > >Any suggestions. > >Thanx. > I presume by "geometric objects" you mean flatlander stuff (circles and squares), not spatial (polyhedra and such). But if I'm wrong and you're looking for spatial, then you might want to check out Struck, Java freeware which outputs in Povray format. Povray, also free, is a world-class ray tracer and saves BMP files -- which you can drop into Word no problem. Struck is center-piece software in my curriculum, as promulgated via the Oregon Curriculum Network (for homeschoolers among others). My web page on Struck, with lotsa links, is: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/struck.html (Note: the latest Struck has an improved screen interface over what I show in my screen shot, but even then it was very easy to use -- just mouse clicks, no need to mess with coordinates, which are all handled internally). At OCN, we consider spatial geometry the starting point, flatlander applications a special case application thereof (because the Greek Euclideans were scribing on the sandy beach, i.e. on the surface of a sphere, locally planar). Kirby Curriculum writer 4D Solutions **************************************************************************** * To post to the list: email mathedcc@archives.math.utk.edu * * To unsubscribe, send mail to: majordomo@archives.math.utk.edu * * In the mail message, enter ONLY the words: unsubscribe mathedcc * * Words in the Subject: line are NOT processed! * * Archives at http://archives.math.utk.edu/hypermail/mathedcc/ * **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:58:49 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: hello. void? <> Brian Hutchings 09-FEB-1999 0:58 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us testing; breaker=break. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:46:11 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: aloe@REV.NET Subject: Re: Cardboard furniture again NO*rkapteyn*SPAM@mindspring.com (Rob) wrote: >I met an interesting fellow on an airplane not long ago, who builds >what he calls "monolithic domes". He starts by inflating a tent-like >dome with a fan. Working inside of this, they spray an insulating foam >as a temporary framework. In this foam, they install electrics, plumbing >and cut doors and windows. Then they seal the inside and outside with >a sprayable concrete that they developed for the purpose. >It all seems very convincing and based on sound engineering and a 20-year >track record. He has built a number of very interesting homes, but most >of his business is utility buildings for industrial uses. Permits and >banks really are the major problems, even though his insulated concrete >structures are far more durable than the average home. No frame or reinforcement? How do they do in earthquakes? --Spud DuBoise ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:15:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: The Buckafka Reader <> Brian Hutchings 08-FEB-1999 20:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us we really have to get on the ball, re this presumed thread of "promoting BuclkyBucky's ideals" -- what ever they (in Hell) were! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:28:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Subject: dear pete, GENI wise. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 The boron fiber center and copper exterior of the cable was what bucky stated to me to use for the cable. He stated to put it under the ice cap, for the over the pole line is the most important. It has not been done. I have a lot of study in this already and wrote a paper concerning you and the allegation that the highest priority of world game is the electrification over the pole. I have found many articles that state education and to inform humanity is the highest priority to invest into. This is what world game does best. BFI is now with the archive on line growing to it's baby steps as well to inform......... I can see electricity can help with the informing as it runs computers. If I were you I would put that in your high priority brochure as well to get more money for GENI than wg and bfi. You ask me to have my friend Doctor Hector donate to GENI for it had the world games highest priority goal electricity, he stated he already gave to world game and the Buckminster Fuller institute. He felt that you were intruding on him as part of their mailing list to give to you, and this is what I have stated is a coo coo bird. A bird that eats other birds eggs and has the other bird raise it's own eggs. The surprise is when the birds come out they are from the coo coo bird. IN this way GENI has been helped by World Game and BFI and Geni claims to be a more bang for your buck for bucky and uses their mailing lists and all the resources for itself and not for what bucky intended it for. This makes me rather anxious about you and your GENI for money. You are very good at pr for the buck and I have seen no one better, but remember you are using the map from bfi, and the idea from world game. It is legal. But some of the participants do not know exactly which one is the dog and which is the tail. If you can keep making events then bfi and wg can profit as well so be it. IF you take profit from them and it does not return to them , wrong.... HELLO> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:23:04 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian McNutt Subject: hello Is this thing still on??? How well would a small platform fit on a dome? I need a platform for a telescope, and need to put it on a dome I am considering building in my backyard. Just asking. Thanks -- Brian ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:37:15 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Roger Tryon, Jr." Organization: Connix - The Connecticut Internet Exchange Subject: GeoDomes Has anyone heard anything about GeoDome Woodworks in Riverside, CA. Use to be Monteray domes. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:58:07 -0500 Reply-To: rookvma@together.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Gregory L. Rookwood" Organization: Violence Management Associates Subject: Key Domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know any current information; telephone, current address, etc. on Key Dome Engineering, Inc. P.O. Box 430253 S. Miami, FL 33143 I am interested in obtaining a set of plans for a Plywood dome produced by Peter Van Der Klaauw. Thanks. Greg Rookwood rookvma@together.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:10:44 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rob Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Subject: Re: Cardboard furniture again In article <79mf9e$n4g$10@news1-alterdial.uu.net>, aloe@rev.net wrote: > NO*rkapteyn*SPAM@mindspring.com (Rob) wrote: > > >I met an interesting fellow on an airplane not long ago, who builds > >what he calls "monolithic domes". He starts by inflating a tent-like > >dome with a fan. Working inside of this, they spray an insulating foam > >as a temporary framework. In this foam, they install electrics, plumbing > >and cut doors and windows. Then they seal the inside and outside with > >a sprayable concrete that they developed for the purpose. > > >It all seems very convincing and based on sound engineering and a 20-year > >track record. He has built a number of very interesting homes, but most > >of his business is utility buildings for industrial uses. Permits and > >banks really are the major problems, even though his insulated concrete > >structures are far more durable than the average home. > > No frame or reinforcement? How do they do in earthquakes? > > --Spud DuBoise It is like a solid concrete dome. Hard to imagine anything stronger. They do put rebar in it, and claim it to be "nearly invulnerable to tornadoes and earthquakes." There are a lot of matches of the Web, the best seems to be: http://www.monolithicdome.com/ =Rob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:31:00 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Darek Organization: Politechnika Subject: praca na politechnice w Lublinie Zatrudnimy 3 asystentsw sta?ystsw w Katedrze Geotechniki Politechniki Lubelskiej w specjalno6ciach : - geotechnika budowlana - geologia in?ynierska - geodezja ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:37:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: FW: video fuller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe S Moore [mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com] > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:28 AM > To: hoornstr@worldonline.nl > Cc: _Geodesic > Subject: RE: video fuller > > > Hans, > > Sorry for not replying sooner--been busy updating my web pages. > > For videos by RBF see: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFVideotapes.htm > > For videos about RBF see: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioAboutBFVideotapes.htm > > The Buckminster Fuller Institute has videos for sale; see: > http://www.bfi.org/shopping/purchase.htm > > Joe S Moore > mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hans Hoornstra [mailto:hoornstr@worldonline.nl] > > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 1:41 AM > > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > > Subject: video fuller > > > > Hay there Joe, > > > > Im a 30 year old Dutch teacher at a higher vocational institute where I > > teach modern architecture. I've been searching the web for a > > video on Bucky > > (of which I'm sure there is, because I saw it about a year > ago). The video > > really would be a great help for me to bring my students into > contact with > > the work of Buckminster. Do you know where I can find video material on > > fuller? > > > > thank you, > > > > Hans Hoornstra > > > > hoornstr@worldonline.nl > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:27:45 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: video fuller Comments: To: hoornstr@worldonline.nl In-Reply-To: <199902060943.KAA20352@deimos.worldonline.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hans, Sorry for not replying sooner--been busy updating my web pages. For videos by RBF see: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFVideotapes.htm For videos about RBF see: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioAboutBFVideotapes.htm The Buckminster Fuller Institute has videos for sale; see: http://www.bfi.org/shopping/purchase.htm Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Hans Hoornstra [mailto:hoornstr@worldonline.nl] > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 1:41 AM > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: video fuller > > Hay there Joe, > > Im a 30 year old Dutch teacher at a higher vocational institute where I > teach modern architecture. I've been searching the web for a > video on Bucky > (of which I'm sure there is, because I saw it about a year ago). The video > really would be a great help for me to bring my students into contact with > the work of Buckminster. Do you know where I can find video material on > fuller? > > thank you, > > Hans Hoornstra > > hoornstr@worldonline.nl > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:33:17 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: TEST1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TEST1 Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:17:34 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gordon, Ever consider getting your own web pages? Then you could make your stuff available to everyone in the world who has access to the Internet. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gordon Rumson > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 1999 11:27 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer (snip) > Gordon Rumson (planning to sign off Geodesic -- sadly just before he > submitted an article on the electric grid to the list. Please don't > emailing me asking for a copy. I will not send it out at this point). > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:32:08 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. Said, the Mother to child. The reason the educational system is in such a pool of scum is that information is to over specialized. The internet allows for free discourse. When I say I love kirby I do in many ways. It is his lack of unity with what he is off balanced with that I push him over to show how weak this lack of co-operation with collaboration with the bfi that makes him weak and without integrity. I pity his egoist attitude. And hope to educate him for the near future when the net really gets going. I love all of you out here whether you like bucky or not. This is what I learned most from bucky. If you can not do this you do not know anything about bucky and this shows that Kirby is very stupid when it come to love and concern for others, his lack of emotion for life is why he flunks the bucky test. Big time. You do not know anything about bucky or you would not say you will leave this bucky stuff behind, Because his agenda of education is best in all around comprehensive angles of knowledge, you ignorance of him shows as if there was another form of economical arrangement of knowledge. You are very haughty and pompous and felt pillowed arrogance shows. You may have a big degree and spent a lot of money for it. But how many spins are there in a isotropic vector matrix and what does that have to do with every nano orbit in your micro gravity permeating environment that you are siting in and reading the monitor and the room you are in and the world you are on and the galactic brain awareness that these very spins are all there is and nothing else. Now you can return to your regular mind set of haughty aristocrat. I love you too, even if you want to go some where and talk about how rude those people are over on the weird list that wants to save the world and has blue prints and plans that no nation has yet to draw to make the whole world work and stop war, and make your kids have a life to live in that is heaven on earth. Go ahead get out of here. : - ) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:39:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WHAT IS THE BEST OFFER FOR BUCKY'S DOME HOME FROM THIS LIST TOP DOLLAR? 100 K or best offer? Before I rent it for two years and get locked into the rent. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:00:02 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DA, I agree with you please delete with out defeat. One thing that KU and i do agree on is that bucky is way more together than any other option on earth for earth. If people are so narrow minded to be turned off with our fight over the truth about how to establish the ground floor for the start of this information to be designed then they are to narrow minded to make a difference anyone about there spoiled life anyway. Ignore that inwhich you do not understand. But if you do not understand then find out what it is first at least. Because i at one time offered the dome to the bfi and was refused and do not intend to do this from that point on it is not truthful for Kirby to refer the above that I am doing it now. This is his political motion to make more mess and blame it on me as he does with everyone. To take away the focus for unitivity and that I want 100 K or best offer for the dome. NOW! Period. Kirby's investigation is a ploy of stupidity, for the bfi is not interested in anything he has to say from my point of experinece, no matter what it is or what he says. Unless he says he is sorry for being such an idiot. David Anderson wrote: > Gordon > Personally, I am even beginning to doubt whether > Gordon > anything good can be made of Fuller's ideas at this time. > > Buck up, Gordon. I am still making domes and having a heck of a time. I > simply ignore the infighting; that's what mail filters and delete keys are > for. :o) > > Dave http://w3.one.net/~monkey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:46:56 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: dear pete, GENI wise. In-Reply-To: <36BEE68E.4CBB0C9D@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >You are very good at pr for the buck and >I have seen no one better, but remember >you are using the map from bfi, and the >idea from world game. It is legal. But >some of the participants do not know >exactly which one is the dog and which >is the tail. Hey lookie here. Talk about trying to control assets that aren't yours to control! Here's coo coo MSM lecturing Meisen about how it should all sort out re the map and such. Since when were you the big cheese anyone paid any attention to re these matters (just because a couple friends of yours have given bucks, or because you have the dead albatross?). Certainly I'm not about to run my affairs past your desk for approval, but I can't resist pointing out the hypocrisy here. Nuff said. Kirby >If you can keep making events then >bfi and wg can profit as well so be it. >IF you take profit from them and it >does not return to them , wrong.... >HELLO> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:46:49 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kenneth Rhodes Subject: CHORDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I have developed a small program which reports the chord lengths (triangle sides) and triangle heights for the following Icosahedron faces: Class 1, Method 1, 2 Frequency Class 1, Method 2, 4 Frequency 3 Frequency 6 Frequency 4 Frequency 6 Frequency The program is "dumb" in that it does not compute the chord factors from scratch, but rather refers to the chord factors stored in one of the programs data structures. I will probably include the axial, face, and dihedral angles this week. Within a month or so I hope to be able to display a color coded bitmap image of each icosahedron face. I am a rank amateur programmer, if your interested in checking the program out, drop me a line and I will send it to you. Any feed back will be appreciated. Ken Rhodes ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:00:06 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jan Stander Subject: Re: Geodesic terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> "D. Ernest Sparks" 02/05 3:25 AM >>> Can someone explain in simple, lay language the meaning of 3/8s, 5/8s, etc? How does this apply to Bucky's design? Breaking down an icosahedron by cutting it on a plane through the vertices = that is at roughly 3/8 and 5/8 from the top, you land up with a shape that = has a flat bottom to stand on. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:26:55 -0500 Reply-To: spammers.eat.used.kitty.litter.coolbear@earthlink.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jonathan Thompson Subject: Re: Geodesic terms In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, if I understand the noemenclature correctly (keeping in mind the off-by-one error, actuall 9 sections of a frequency 3 sphere) a 3/8 dome is actually composed of the top 5 Icosahedron based triangles, each subdivided into the 3-on-side (9 smaller) triangles, the 3/8 dome will meat the ground flat on the edges (please don't take that too literally) on 15 triangle sides (5 Icosahedron frequency 1 divisions * frequency 3). A 5/8 sphere would be a total of 15 triangles in the form of an icosahedron. A frequency 4 sphere would be possible to reasonably create a 1/2 dome having half the total triangle sides (total of 160 smaller triangles) and a 5/8 frequency 4 dome would have 16*15 (240 triangles) for surfaces. A frequency 5 dome 3/8 would have 125 surface triangles by this logic. Is that a correct understanding? Thanks. Remove the comment about kitty litter to reply! spammers.eat.used.kitty.litter.coolbear@earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of P. O. Box 2321 > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 2:29 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Geodesic terms > > > On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, D. Ernest Sparks wrote: > > Can someone explain in simple, lay language the meaning of 3/8s, 5/8s, > > etc? How does this apply to Bucky's design? > > Imagine cutting a tomato into sections. You have a little one at the end, > then bigger slices in the middle, then little ones at the other end. > > The most common kind of geodesic sphere for architecture is "three > frequency" (defined below). A three frequency sphere has eight 'slices.' > > A 3/8 sphere would be three slices of the geodesic tomato. 5/8 would be > five slices. Etc. > > Geodesic spheres are made up of pentagons (of triangles) and hexagons (of > triangles). If you measure the number of triangle edges between the > center of one pentagon and another pentagon, you get the frequecy. Higher > frequencies are more spherical, lower frequencies are more angular. > > - Trevor > > -- > http://www.box2321.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:31:52 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? In-Reply-To: <36BDFA1E.57AC88F6@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe that Michael was offered market value plus $ 10,000 several years ago ... I also think that the "markeet value" price was a bit inflated due to its one of a kind status... so the best offer was around $56,000 ... as I recall ... Paul Kosuth Carbondale ---------- > WHAT IS THE BEST OFFER FOR BUCKY'S > DOME HOME FROM THIS LIST TOP DOLLAR? > 100 K or best offer? Before I rent it for two years and > get locked into the rent. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:10:33 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Geodesic terms Comments: cc: coolbear@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <000001be549c$d3f60660$bea9fea9@DrMindbender.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:26:55 -0500, you wrote: >Is that a correct understanding? > >Thanks. > I think yer gettin' it. Here's some analysis regarding a full geodesic sphere. It's useful to get this under your hat, even before getting into the fractional subdivisions (i.e. spheres come before domes). An icosasphere has 20 IcosaTriangles. Subdivision of these 20 into smaller subtriangles gets you a more and more spherical shape, with more struts, more hubs. The number of subtriangles per each IcosaTriangle is the 2nd power of f (frequency), where f = the number of intervals along each edge. We write 2nd powering as f^2 e.g. 4^2=16. IcosaTriangles Frequency f^2 TotalTriangles -------------------------------------------------- 20 1 1 20 x 1 = 20 20 2 4 20 x 4 = 80 20 3 9 20 x 9 = 180 20 4 16 20 x 16 = 320 ... ... ... ... The total number of Vertices (hubs) is 10 x f^2 + 2 i.e. if f=4, 10 x 4^2 + 2 = 162. And by Euler's Law, V+F=E+2 i.e. Hubs + TotalTriangles = Struts + 2 [Rule 1] Also, for omnitriangulated polys, such as geodesic spheres: N:F:E = 1:2:3 where N=V-2 i.e. [Rule 2] 2 x (Hubs - 2) = TotalTriangles 3 x (Hubs - 2) = Struts For frequency = 4, we already have TotalTriangles = 320 Hubs = 162 So by Euler's Law, Struts = 162 + 320 - 2 = 480 Checking the other rule [Rule 2]: 2 x (162 - 2) = 320 [check] 3 x (162 - 2) = 480 [check] So... Frequency TotalTriangles Hubs (10f^2+2) Struts -------------------------------------------------- 1 20 12 30 2 80 42 120 3 180 92 270 4 320 162 480 ... ... ... ... Again, all of the above is with respect to a full omni- triangulated geodesic icosasphere of frequency f. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:29:30 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: The Buckafka Reader In-Reply-To: <199902090415.UAA05369@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:15:51 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 08-FEB-1999 20:15 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > we really have to get on the ball, > re this presumed thread of "promoting BuclkyBucky's ideals" -- what ever they > (in Hell) were! And on the ball we are, no question about it! My strategy, personally (no direction from BFI or anything) is to use newsgroups to recruit willing synergetics trainer trainees, people willing to build enough self-confidance around content to go before groups, if called upon, and to stand and deliver. Or maybe they serve as online tutors/experts, or as consultants to multimedia teams -- it's not always a "lecture bowl" circuit in which our trainers hop around. Here's the text of my recent newsgroup announcement (fixed a typo for this GEODESIC edition): ===== RECRUITING SYNERGETICS TRAINER TRAINEES VIA DISTANCE EDUCATION CIRCUITS I'm using my Synergetics-L as a recruitment zone, to build my database of people willing to train up to where they can present synergetics to interested groups if called upon to do so. Having several such individuals in a given region is preferable, especially if said persons are willing to work collaboratively, as synergetics requires hands-on activities, such as model building, and sometimes this is a lot easier if you have two or three or more willing to come together for these activities. Synergetics is a self-discipline involving the ability to think systematically and geometrically at the same time. You need to know some mathematics, but a lot of streamlining has gone into it, making it quite a bit easier to carry around in your head. The main innovation regarding geometry is we've booted the cube from center stage and now use the tetrahedron as (a) the most stable structure and (b) the unit of volume. So one of the props you might use in your presentations is a stiff cardboard tetrahedron you can pour sand (grain, lentils) from, into other shapes such as: Number of "cups" a. Tetrahedron (edge connects 2 unit-radius spheres) 1 b. Cube (face diagonal = tetra edge) 3 c. Octahedron (edge = tetra edge) 4 d. Rhombic Dodecahedron (long face diagonal = tetra edge) 6 e. Cuboctahedron (edge = tetra edge) 20 If you're up on your geometry you'll recognize cube/octahedron and rhombic dodecahedron/cuboctahedron (i.e. b/c and d/e) are dual pairs (the tetrahedron is self-dual). Also (b) and (d) fill space by themselves, and the octahedron (b) does this with the tetrahedron (a) or cuboctahedron (e). All this information is presented graphically at my website. The philosophical angle (synergetics is a philosophy) is also spelled out, at my 'Synergetics on the Web' as well as at 'A Philosophers' Network". With the above concentric hierarchy of whole number volumed shapes, you can build a space-filling lattice or matrix of all equal edges, known as the isotropic vector matrix. This defines the "zero" or "home" position and is kind of like a holodeck with no programs running i.e. the Buddhist void. Even when programs are running (your reality), the void is still present, behind the scenes. If you prefer a different "skin" of metaphors from another religion, or take it straight (no religion at all), you can easily download and apply your favorite "shell" to the synergetics API. But synergetics itself is a philosophy built around engineering mathematics. The idea is to improve the world through superior infrastructure (like the internet), not setting up any new dieties in competition with those already existing, nor getting people to agree on matters of religion. Synergetics is behind the geodesic sphere and dome, like the one at Disney's EPCOT. The geodesic sphere is also a model of what we mean by "system" when we say "to think systematically" -- geometry and philosophy converged: The integration of geometry and philosophy in a single conceptual system providing a common language and accounting for both the physical and metaphysical. Synergetics 251.50 Home Page for Synergetics-L: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/Synergetics-L/synl.html Relevant websites: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html <- Synergetics on the Web http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ <- Design Science Central http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/ <- Oregon Curriculum Network http://members.xoom.com/Urner/ <- A Philosophers' Network http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/links.html <- links to many more!* * Including to the complete text of 'Synergetics' itself (originally a two volume work) ===== The strategy is working; I'm getting lots of email from recruits, responding to my postings (e.g. in sci.philosophy.meta and alt.philosophy.debate). My own coaching tends to be in the area of suggesting how to develop teaching materials -- using a digital camera for example. Here's an excerpt from an outbox email to one of my recruits: ===== I built my video tapes slide show as follows: Get a digital camera that can output to a VCR. The model I used (a Casio) had "timed output" i.e. would automatically flip through stored frames at a fixed rate (e.g. 15 seconds per frame). The camera should also accept JPGs from the computer. This way, you can go out on the web, to my site for example, and grab as many graphics as you like. They need to be cropped or framed to all be 640x480 usually, then stuffed into the camera, then recorded out to VCR tape at fixed intervals. For overhead transparancies, I use an Epson Color Stylus printer (purchased used for like $120) on 3M cells specifically for ink jet printers. I keep my transparencies in plastic sheaths (another 3M product) in a three-hole binder. The challenge with physical models is the inverse relationship between their delicacy and ability to survive transport. Russ Chu did most the work on my set of stiff paperboard shapes with one face left open. These are sized to fit the "concentric hierarchy" specifications as per 'Synergetics' such that pouring lentils or grain from one to the other illustrates the volumetric relationships. Better would be to have plexiglass versions which would be transparent and hold colored liquids. If all this sounds beyond what you have access to, in the from of equipment and supplies, despair not. As per 'A Business Plan' (which I pointed you to on the web), I expect a feedback loop wherein synergetics-related teaching supplies become more plentiful as those of us already out there and delivering the goods spark more teacher/student focus and interest -- thereby creating a market. The most important thing is for you to imagine what you _could_ have to share the content, and in the meantime bone up on curriculum, lesson plans, outlines of what you'd like to share in limited time frames (e.g. in a one hour workshop or classroom experience). For an outline (one among many possible), I point you to my Oregon Curriculum Network website. Check: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/outline1.html Hope this helps. Kirby ===== So there ya go. The ball is rolling. Synergetics training is becoming a real business. But, like the internet, it's all very decentralized. I'm just one player among many, a resource. We have enough free, public domain resources uploaded to the web by this time, that any serious-minded scholar with the motivation can put together dynamite presentations in short order. I look forward to learning from many of them. As our ranks grow, we'll be doing even more trading and exchanging of ideas than now (and already, we're doing a lot of that). Kirby PS: I sent that earlier post to the list, and to Gordon, but no personal copy to you. My guess is your eyes jumped around too quickly and you lept to the wrong conclusion i.e. usually the header will contain the originator's email address (mine) along with the listserv's, so you probably just assumed I was posting to you personally (not the case, that time -- or this). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:31:55 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: GeoDomes In-Reply-To: <79lpmm$3cq@beast.connix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roger, For info on Geodomes Woodworks see: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesManuf-A-M.htm Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Roger Tryon, Jr. > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 1999 8:37 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: GeoDomes > > Has anyone heard anything about GeoDome Woodworks in Riverside, CA. Use to > be Monteray domes. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:40:17 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Key Domes Comments: To: rookvma@together.net In-Reply-To: <36BF179F.589DBBF1@together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gregory, The info I have on Key Dome as of 5-98 is: Key Dome Engineering, Inc. 18571 SW 104 Ave. Miami, FL 33157 305-233-9000 voice 305-233-0404 fax They sell geodesic dome home plans. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gregory L. > Rookwood > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 8:58 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Key Domes > > Does anyone know any current information; telephone, current address, > etc. on > > Key Dome Engineering, Inc. > P.O. Box 430253 > S. Miami, FL 33143 > > I am interested in obtaining a set of plans for a Plywood dome produced > by Peter Van Der Klaauw. > > Thanks. > > Greg Rookwood > rookvma@together.net > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:49:04 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: hello In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian, Look under "Observatories" in the following section: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesGeneral-H-O.htm Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Brian McNutt > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 1999 7:23 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: hello > > Is this thing still on??? > How well would a small platform fit on a dome? I need a platform for a > telescope, and need to put it on a dome I am considering building in my > backyard. Just asking. > > Thanks > -- > Brian > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:59:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Carol Assa Subject: Change of Email Address Hi. I wanted to let you now that I recently joined EarthLink, America's fastest-growing Internet Service Provider, and I have a new email address. Please send your emails to: ELN/directionals@earthlink.net I don't want to lose any messages from you, so please remember to update your address book. EarthLink Sprint provides free Web space for its members, so I may be setting up my Web site at http://home.earthlink.net/~directionals/. Come visit me soon! If you are interested in joining EarthLink too, visit http://www.earthlink.net/join. Thanks. I hope to hear from you soon! Carol P.S. My old address was:(carol@full-moon.com,) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:08:02 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: The Butterfly Subject: Re: Geodesic terms In-Reply-To: (box2321@BOX2321.COM) -On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, D. Ernest Sparks wrote: -> Can someone explain in simple, lay language the meaning of 3/8s, 5/8s, -> etc? How does this apply to Bucky's design? - -Imagine cutting a tomato into sections. You have a little one at the end, -then bigger slices in the middle, then little ones at the other end. - -The most common kind of geodesic sphere for architecture is "three -frequency" (defined below). A three frequency sphere has eight 'slices.' - -A 3/8 sphere would be three slices of the geodesic tomato. 5/8 would be -five slices. Etc. - -Geodesic spheres are made up of pentagons (of triangles) and hexagons (of -triangles). If you measure the number of triangle edges between the -center of one pentagon and another pentagon, you get the frequecy. Higher -frequencies are more spherical, lower frequencies are more angular. - -- Trevor - --- - http://www.box2321.com/ - A good explanation, and I'd like to throw in one minor correction. (Since I got corrected by someone about this last year. :-) ) With a 3-frequency, you divide the triangles into thirds. On an icosohedral-based dome (the most common type), you have three general "sections": top, middle, and bottom. Each of these is divided into thirds, giving you 9 sections. So, on the 3-freq domes, you generally end up with a 4/9ths or 5/9ths sphere. My house is a 4/9ths on a riser wall. You can see pictures of it at: http://bucky.sculptors.com/~salsbury/Gifs/Domes/house/ Hope this helps! :-) -- Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury - http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ Check out the Reality Sculptors Project: http://www.sculptors.com/ --------------------------------------------------------- We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true. --Robert Wilensky, ILP 1996 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:43:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "GENI (Peter Meisen)" Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Paul, Is there a fact sheet on the dome house? Number of bedrooms, baths? Lot size? Condition of property? Rental/lease rate? Designation as a historical site? There is a big difference between $56,000 and the $100,000 asking price. GENI has a couple of Board members who are involved in real estate -- and may be interested in keeping the home within Bucky's network if it makes sense. Thank you, Peter Meisen >I believe that Michael was offered market value plus $ 10,000 several years >ago ... I also think that the "markeet value" price was a bit inflated due >to its one of a kind status... so the best offer was around $56,000 ... as >I recall ... > >Paul Kosuth >Carbondale > >---------- >> WHAT IS THE BEST OFFER FOR BUCKY'S >> DOME HOME FROM THIS LIST TOP DOLLAR? >> 100 K or best offer? Before I rent it for two years and >> get locked into the rent. >> GLOBAL ENERGY NETWORK INSTITUTE Peter Meisen P.O.Box 81565 San Diego, CA 92138 (619) 595-0139 FAX: (619) 595-0403 Visit the GENI World Wide Web Home Page: http://www.geni.org/ Email: Internet: geni@cerf.net Compuserve: 75543.520@compuserve.com GENI is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation conducting education and research into the interconnection of renewable energy resources around the world. This was proposed as the highest priority objective from the World Game of 20th century visionary, Dr. R Buckminster Fuller. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:34:55 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? MESSAGE from ="List 10-FEB-1999 17:34 WHAT IS THE BEST OFFER FOR BUCKY'S DOME HOME FROM THIS LIST TOP DOLLAR? 100 K or best offer? Before I rent it for two years and get locked into the rent. - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 10-FEB-1999 18:34 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us OK, Admiral Mitchell of the Horizontal Command; I'll dome-sit in it for nothing, and help to deploy the "theme-park" -- but only if we can get the USPO stamp in the 33-cent zone, firstly! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:44:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer MESSAGE from ="List 10-FEB-1999 17:34 DA, I agree with you please delete with out defeat. One thing that KU and i do agree on is that bucky is way more together than any other option on earth for earth. If people are so narrow minded to be turned off with our fight over the truth about how to establish the ground floor for the start of this information to be designed then they are to narrow minded to make a difference anyone about there spoiled life anyway. Ignore that inwhich you do not understand. But if you do not understand then find out what it is first at least. Because i at one time offered the dome to the bfi and was refused and do not intend to do this from that point on it is not truthful for Kirby to refer the above that I am doing it now. This is his political motion to make more mess and blame it on me as he does with everyone. To take away the focus for unitivity and that I want 100 K or best offer for the dome. NOW! Period. Kirby's investigation is a ploy of stupidity, for the bfi is not interested in anything he has to say from my point of experinece, no matter what it is or what he says. Unless he says he is sorry for being such an idiot. David Anderson wrote: > Gordon > Personally, I am even beginning to doubt whether > Gordon > anything good can be made of Fuller's ideas at this time. > > Buck up, Gordon. I am still making domes and having a heck of a time. I > simply ignore the infighting; that's what mail filters and delete keys are > for. :o) > > Dave http://w3.one.net/~monkey - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 10-FEB-1999 18:44 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us OK, but what is the "going rate" for the land-with-housing?... what is your total profit-and-loss statement, as an owner-investor?... what ration of your ownership have you lived in it, for? these are but elementary concerns, re your enterprise as a would-be benefactor -- not that it was a bad thing, for you to have offered the unit, on more favorable terms, y.a. one little piece d'advise: don't let Kirby in there with any hidden cameras, or he'll have your whole artefact on his website, done-up in fly-through VRML, attached to some Global Dysinformational System, with a pan-out to Known Universe (El Big Bunko .-) --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:06:47 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Geodesic terms MESSAGE from ="List 10-FEB-1999 17:34 >>> "D. Ernest Sparks" 02/05 3:25 AM >>> Can someone explain in simple, lay language the meaning of 3/8s, 5/8s, etc? How does this apply to Bucky's design? Breaking down an icosahedron by cutting it on a plane through the vertices that is at roughly 3/8 and 5/8 from the top, you land up with a shape that has a flat bottom to stand on. - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 10-FEB-1999 19:06 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I'd guess that the "eighths" nomenclature is actually about correct, from a "central angle" operation, or similarly. this is just from minimal eperience with maps & globes. --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:51:12 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The fact is that the dome if registered on the historical registry will allow the dome's value to be appraised for 500K to 1 million dollars as a historical property. I at this time and have not as yet filled to make it a historical property and it is very easy to do. This is the only reason that the appraisal would be anywhere under 100k. So to state that it is only worth 56K is to say it has no historical value. This is not true. If someone wants to buy it in the next two weeks at this time cash. I will sell it for 85K now. If not I will wait another two years as it will be rented for the next round of income from rental by contract. Thank you, Michael S. Mitchell prkosuth wrote: > I believe that Michael was offered market value plus $ 10,000 several years > ago ... I also think that the "markeet value" price was a bit inflated due > to its one of a kind status... so the best offer was around $56,000 ... as > I recall ... > > Paul Kosuth > Carbondale > > ---------- > > WHAT IS THE BEST OFFER FOR BUCKY'S > > DOME HOME FROM THIS LIST TOP DOLLAR? > > 100 K or best offer? Before I rent it for two years and > > get locked into the rent. > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:48:06 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck J Knight Subject: Chilling machines I was reading BuckyWorks the other day, and got to thinking about how nice a passively cooled dome would be, here in Texas. Has anyone actually built a chilling machine dome? How well did it work? What were the design specs? -- Chuck Knight ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:26:40 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? Comments: cc: afsnyder@aol.com In-Reply-To: <36C20D60.E10AFD24@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:51:12 +0000, you wrote: >The fact is that the dome if registered on the historical registry will allow >the dome's value to be appraised for 500K to 1 million dollars as a >historical property. I at this time and have not as yet filled to make >it a historical property and it is very easy to do. This is the only reason >that the appraisal would be anywhere under 100k. So to state that it >is only worth 56K is to say it has no historical value. This is not true. >If someone wants to buy it in the next two weeks at this time cash. >I will sell it for 85K now. If not I will wait another two years as it >will be rented for the next round of income from rental by contract. > >Thank you, >Michael S. Mitchell Don't count your chickens before they hatch Michael. It's a rather unremarkable structure, less than 50 years old, and the fact that Bucky never got to live in something more worthy of his vision is more testament to the intellectual poverty of the surrounding environment than to his personal genius, which genius was seriously underserved by this culture (with the counter-culture being likewise clueless in its turn). "Ordinarily cemeteries, birthplaces, graves of historical figures, properties owned by religious institutions or used for religious purposes, structures that have been moved from their original locations, reconstructed historic buildings, properties primarily commemorative in nature, and properties that have achieved significance within the past 50 years shall not be considered eligible for the National Register." [http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/criteria/criteria.html] It may well turn out to have sentimental value only, primarily to the family. But you wanted the money -- bucks, not Bucky, was your primary allegience (and "make money, not sense" your primary MO). I already quoted Bucky re landlordism (from 'Grunch of Giants'). True, he was locked in to playing a lot of the same games (aren't we all), but he was a fighter, not a compliant conformist -- did his level best to undermine the obsolete reflex-conditioning that is even today strait-jacketing humans against their best intuitions. I think that's one fact we all love about the guy -- those of us that do. But you're not fighting, you're selling out. As Ed Applewhite posted (originally to Syn-L, but it bounced because he has two email addresses, and posted from the other one): ==== From: EdApple@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:02:30 EST To: synergetics-l@telelists.com Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: The concept of a number Kirby, Now that you have put the execrable Mike Mitchell in his place, you should not dignify his assertions of "unitivity" by wasting so much time on them. Yrs Ed ==== Thanks for the ammo, Ed. Now lets leave our infamous landlord to wallow in his self-chosen dead end story line, unrepentent to the bitter end. Sincerely, Kirby Cc: Allegra Fuller Snyder PS: Peter, personally speaking I'd advise your board not to get involved in this real estate venture. We'll have lots of time to devise intelligent and instructive artifacts which recall Bucky's life, as well as point future generations in potentially positive directions (up to them whether they want to follow the arrows). Some drab hovel in Carbondale, while it might have been another roadside attraction, is of no critical path consequence -- Bucky would have told us this, in no uncertain terms, I have no real qualms about saying. Compared to Sam Lanahan (for example), MSM was a very low caliber student and traveling partner. I suggest we leave him hopping up and down on his motor boat, spouting "unitivity" and pretending to undeserved greatness for having "dangled the dome" (aka dead albatross) in front of our faces for so long. It's a worthless bauble, a trinket. Snake oil would be more valuable, given what's been done to sully it since Bucky's passing. Giving MSM $100K for it would be like paying ransom to a traitor. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:01:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I counted on being backed by others I would not have been a good friend of bucky and anne's as well as received a letter of integrity from bucky himself. http://home.eartholin/~syntrivity/index.html As far as Ed and Allegra this is what you state they stated and I do not trust anything you say about anything. A persons integrity is theirs and just as bucky had his. I am a unitivitists and I know what I am talking about. If no one is interested in bucky and anne's dome then they can leave it alone. No problem. I have lasted 27 years without talking to any of you and I feel that what I have to offer has more than you have to offer to me. If any or all of those who feel what they wish, I have no control nor want to have control of anyone. I am happy to be honest and be a unitivitist and own bucky's home dome. So be it what ever. Thank you for your small mindedness. Your hate will be your fate. Love and truth is my leader. Michael S. Mitchell Kirby Urner wrote: > On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:51:12 +0000, you wrote: > > >The fact is that the dome if registered on the historical registry will allow > >the dome's value to be appraised for 500K to 1 million dollars as a > >historical property. I at this time and have not as yet filled to make > >it a historical property and it is very easy to do. This is the only reason > >that the appraisal would be anywhere under 100k. So to state that it > >is only worth 56K is to say it has no historical value. This is not true. > >If someone wants to buy it in the next two weeks at this time cash. > >I will sell it for 85K now. If not I will wait another two years as it > >will be rented for the next round of income from rental by contract. > > > >Thank you, > >Michael S. Mitchell > > Don't count your chickens before they hatch Michael. It's a rather > unremarkable structure, less than 50 years old, and the fact that > Bucky never got to live in something more worthy of his vision is > more testament to the intellectual poverty of the surrounding > environment than to his personal genius, which genius was seriously > underserved by this culture (with the counter-culture being likewise > clueless in its turn). > > "Ordinarily cemeteries, birthplaces, graves of historical > figures, properties owned by religious institutions or used > for religious purposes, structures that have been moved from > their original locations, reconstructed historic buildings, > properties primarily commemorative in nature, and properties > that have achieved significance within the past 50 years shall > not be considered eligible for the National Register." > > [http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/criteria/criteria.html] > > It may well turn out to have sentimental value only, primarily to > the family. But you wanted the money -- bucks, not Bucky, was your > primary allegience (and "make money, not sense" your primary MO). > > I already quoted Bucky re landlordism (from 'Grunch of Giants'). > True, he was locked in to playing a lot of the same games (aren't > we all), but he was a fighter, not a compliant conformist -- did > his level best to undermine the obsolete reflex-conditioning that > is even today strait-jacketing humans against their best intuitions. > I think that's one fact we all love about the guy -- those of us > that do. > > But you're not fighting, you're selling out. > > As Ed Applewhite posted (originally to Syn-L, but it bounced > because he has two email addresses, and posted from the other > one): > > ==== > > From: EdApple@aol.com > Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:02:30 EST > To: synergetics-l@telelists.com > Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: The concept of a number > > Kirby, > > Now that you have put the execrable Mike Mitchell in his place, you > should not dignify his assertions of "unitivity" by wasting so much > time on them. > > Yrs > > Ed > > ==== > > Thanks for the ammo, Ed. Now lets leave our infamous landlord to > wallow in his self-chosen dead end story line, unrepentent to the > bitter end. > > Sincerely, > > Kirby > > Cc: Allegra Fuller Snyder > > PS: Peter, personally speaking I'd advise your board not to get > involved in this real estate venture. We'll have lots of time > to devise intelligent and instructive artifacts which recall > Bucky's life, as well as point future generations in potentially > positive directions (up to them whether they want to follow the > arrows). Some drab hovel in Carbondale, while it might have > been another roadside attraction, is of no critical path > consequence -- Bucky would have told us this, in no uncertain > terms, I have no real qualms about saying. > > Compared to Sam Lanahan (for example), MSM was a very low caliber > student and traveling partner. I suggest we leave him hopping > up and down on his motor boat, spouting "unitivity" and pretending > to undeserved greatness for having "dangled the dome" (aka dead > albatross) in front of our faces for so long. It's a worthless > bauble, a trinket. Snake oil would be more valuable, given what's > been done to sully it since Bucky's passing. Giving MSM $100K > for it would be like paying ransom to a traitor. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:52:48 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I can see why Bucky's dome would be worth something to thinking humans, I am in the planning stages of building my own dome. I was impressed by Bucky's ideas and with the hurricane resistance (three major hurricanes in two years). Some really great ideas never make it because of the limitations of the common man, In a world that cries out for something different, the different is often ridiculed and degraded. The best way to really respect the memory of Buckmisterfuller is to use his ideas, demonstrate by example their superiority with a little luck and a lot of dedication and sweat someday we will be colonizing the planets, the dome is obviously superior under adverse conditions maybe it's day will come. I just hope that in the next hurricane my dome is still their while the cracker boxes are blown away, maybe that will in some small way demonstrate his genius. Moontanma n ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:17:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for the inspirational message. I hope that if someone would at least repay part of what I have in the dome and donate it to the City of Carbondale to make their park named after the Fullerene and Bucky and Anne that this would allow the beginning of the Millennium to be appropriate for the spot that it all started. It was the start of World Game and synergetics here. It is not planned to be a burger place like Kirby suggests it is to be a bed and breakfast for the city visitors while another adjacent office building is to be a place to put in computer and artifact shows towards bucky's work. This amount is completely tax deductible. I make more money to rent it and keep it. I would like to see the park come about and Bill Perk and the city do the plans that they have for it. I am not going to give it away for what I have already done. I lost one house to the city for the Federal building that was worth a fortune. They forced me to give it to the Federal building. I spent a lot of money and time making audio tapes for free and donated them to the office of Buckminster Fuller with an agreement between us that I could travel with him if I gave him copies. I gave copies to the office and I also gave a copy to Tony Huston of many for a movie to be made about NAGA with bucky and his father John Huston. up unto 1971, I made tapes all the way to 1983 and turned them into the office. If anyone has any new ideas or any artifacts that is not under kirby's control his political mind goes into cyber military rat attack. SO go crazy Urner, spin your webs of politics. Now Ed Applewhite and Allegra are against me according to you. let them speak for them selves if this is true, i am right here. From all my personal information you are just a liar as usual. Stomp out any one that comes along and has any thing different. Michael Hissom wrote: > I can see why Bucky's dome would be worth something to thinking humans, I am > in the planning stages of building my own dome. I was impressed by Bucky's > ideas and with the hurricane resistance (three major hurricanes in two years). > Some really great ideas never make it because of the limitations of the common > man, In a world that cries out for something different, the different is often > ridiculed and degraded. The best way to really respect the memory of > Buckmisterfuller is to use his ideas, demonstrate by example their superiority > with a little luck and a lot of dedication and sweat someday we will be > colonizing the planets, the dome is obviously superior under adverse > conditions maybe it's day will come. I just hope that in the next hurricane my > dome is still their while the cracker boxes are blown away, maybe that will in > some small way demonstrate his genius. > > Moontanma > n ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:38:27 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? In-Reply-To: <36C348E0.7E6B1582@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > = MSM = Kirby >Now Ed Applewhite and Allegra are against me according to you. I never quoted Allegra to you nor attempted to characterize her attitude about you in any way in these posts. Check the archives if you don't believe me -- such a sloppy recording clerk you are. The forward from Ed was genuine -- it'd be trully crazy of me to forge such a thing in broad daylight on the internet. Surely even you must realize this. Anyway, I'm calling it a wrap re this thread. I've had my say and now I'm done with "unitivity" and your dumb dome. Finis. Bash on without me, what? <-- faux British accent (hoping to annoy Hutchings). With finality, Kirby PS: I don't know where you got the idea I'm a military rat. I'm a Quaker rat, as in Religious Society of Friends -- although it's true that Marines would salute our car when we drove onto base in the Philippines. I was a kid, with my nose against the glass -- probably it made an impression. PPS: I still wish you'd resign from my Synergetics-L, but I don't always get what I want, now do I. No way. Tough luck for me then. I'll do my best to ignore you from now on. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:18:16 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Mitchell helps BFI with Carbondale Dome offer <> Brian Hutchings 12-FEB-1999 2:18 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us This is Dallas; Dome-Unit, do you read me? Dallas, we read you; this is Admiral Mitchell in Dome-Unit -- how;s a bout a touchdown in Roadside Attraction, IL, for some Bed and Breakfast? Dome-Unit? This is Dallas -- Admiral Mitchell, what in Hell have you been taking "up" there? Nothing, Dallas; I'm naturally "up" there -- I'm an analtivitiste! Do you read me, Dallas? Dome-Unit, we have a saying, here at NASA; "if your buns were not so tight, your brains'd be all over the horizon!" This is Dallas, signing off. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:05:14 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Filip De Vos Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium Subject: Re: dear pete, GENI wise. Michael S. Mitchell (syntrivity@earthlink.net) wrote: : The boron fiber center and copper exterior of the cable was what bucky : stated to me to use for the cable. Earlier, I proposed gold for the GENI cable in this newsgroup, as gold is a better conductor than copper. There is lots of gold lying in vaults in Fort Knox, Tennessee. It would be great to turn all that metal, that is lying around doing nothing for humanity (save maintaining an old and obsolete ecomic policy) and putting the metal to use. Not really 'killingry into livingry', but close. I think I elicited comment, like how much (copper) a usuall high tension line uses, but nobody made any comment. : He stated to put it under the ice cap, for the over the pole : line is the most important. It has not been done. Why over the Pole. There is nobody living there. (You must mean under the Pole, on the ocean bottom) Better to put the first cable over the Bering straight. Energy rich Alaska, Northwest Canada and Western USA are will be linked to mostly empty and energy rich Siberia, and these (perhaps this link should be made first) to energy-poor, but big consuming Japan. China is close by too. An Atlantic link may grow in stages, via Orkney, Shetland and Faroer Islands to Iceland. : I have a lot of study in this already and wrote a paper concerning : you and the allegation that the highest priority of world game : is the electrification over the pole. I have found many : articles that state education and to inform humanity : is the highest priority to invest into. This is what world -- Filip De Vos FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system. -- John S. Lewis -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:32:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Subject: Bucky's dome as historical artifact. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Mr. Urner has claimed that the dome in Carbondale is not capable to be registered on the historical register. It is not only requested and documented to be historical I have had to turn down the fact of making it so to stop the taxes from increasing substantially. The National Trust of Historical Preservation as well as the State of Illinois is poised at any time to make the dome a historical property. Any person or persons that obtain the dome and add it to the registry will enjoy an enormous increase in appraised value for a tax deduction when given for a 100% deduction to be made into a park as well as a National artifact of historical significance. This is all documented. For those that may be concerned: http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:33:23 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brent A. Verrill" Subject: Integrity of this list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear all, I currently have over a thousand messages in my mailbox. I have subscribed to this list for several years, contributing little and lurking. I began to analyze why I have so many unread messages all from this list. I realized it is because I find it tedious to wade through the personal attacks, conspiracy drivel, and ego posturing to get those few useful nuggets. My first though was to unsubscribe. Then I thought, why am I running. It's my list too. Maybe I should do what I can to try to improve things. Do you realize how bad all of the stupid, incessant quibbling makes us look. In some sense, we represent the ideas of Bucky to the rest of the world. Imagine someone just subscribing to the list who has heard about domes and wants to find out more. All that person would see is all of the crap and unsubscribe. I would be willing to guess that the lists subscription base has gone down in the last year or so. I think we have a small resposibility to show a bit more integrity than we have. One frequent contributer recently derided GENI and Peter Meisen for riding on the coat tails of Bucky's ideas and notoriety. Isn't there enough room in this list for all of us to express our ideas of Bucky's work the way we feel will be most effective? Bucky's work is rich enough for all of us to act on and discuss. He left us a rich heritage of ideas. There is no admission fee or dues that need be paid to be qualified to participate in this list. All that is needed is the interest. My interest in Bucky's work has not faded in the 8 or so years I have been studying it. My interest in this list had seriously faded. I believe I should give it another chance. I have one request of all of you. Please limit the personal attacks and melodrama to personal e-mail. I don't think it is useful for everyone's time and patience to be tried on the list. If you feel it necessary to flame someone, please, do it on a one on one basis. Better yet, just ignore them. I already have several filters for my Bucky mail box. Somehow, the crap keeps making its way through in the threads. Thank you for your time, Brent Verrill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:53:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: dear pete, GENI wise. Comments: To: Filip De Vos In-Reply-To: <7a18ua$sr4$1@inf6serv.rug.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Filip De Vos wrote: > Earlier, I proposed gold for the GENI cable in this newsgroup, as gold is > a better conductor than copper. There is lots of gold lying in vaults in > Fort Knox, Tennessee. Knoxville is in Tennessee. Fort Knox is not. - Former Knoxvillian Trevor Blake -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:59:15 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Bucky and Annes dome best offer? In-Reply-To: <36C348E0.7E6B1582@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that the Fuller dome in Carbondale would be cool to set up as a place of active doing and learning about Fuller, the artifacts and his legacy. The coupla meetings that I was at spoke of some computers, artifacts and interactions. A place where parents, kids and schools could get involved. Being in the dome that Fuller lived in would add to the effect I think. The place sits on a corner lot (Forest and Cherry) .. not huge but standard for the area. From what I know the condition is good. The local PBS station did a half hour post American Masters when it came out with a tour of the home and talking with the tenants. I thinks it is 1 bedroom 1 bath , smallish kitchen but an expansive 2 story living room. There are pictures of Bucky and Anne in the dome in the book: _Ideas and Integrities_. Is it worth 100 g's ? What usually is ? Can it be used as a leverage for some good learnings and furture work ? Probably. Thats my take ... Paul Kosuth Carbondale ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:25:34 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: Bucky and Anne's dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > If this is true that Ed Applewhite feels that I should be spit out. > It shows his selfishness as when I was with bucky and he tried to > get bucky to leave me at the World Affairs conference in Washington > D.C. Bucky would not do it and stayed with me and signed 12 > Dymaxion maps leaving Ed to wait for us. Remember Ed a promise > is a promise he stated to Ed and as Ed belittled me in fact at that time > Bucky stayed true to integrity and signed these maps for friends of mine > like Jack Nicolson, Harry Dean Stanton, Lou Adler, Bruce Hector, > and other friends of mine. It was > a favor for my many years of work for free with bucky > and Ed then wanted to be his execrable self > to me to leave and side track me but bucky then made him wait in the side lines. > So Ed if you want to spit me out and my unitivity > ideas then do it in my face, not from your side line as usual. Youth has a way > of having new ideas and to just spit them out is rather short sided. I assume > Kirby is telling the truth with this? My unitivity paper inspired him to write > syntropy, this is a fact. I transcribed the first 40 hours of tapes from 1960, > the design department as well. This was before Ed Schlosberg and you > started the dictionary. I have as much a right to think what I want as you > do. Thank you, Michael S. Mitchell > You have always been a little cruel with your CIA attitude, it seems > calling girls fat to their face, etc. like you did miss Brown. When she worked > in the office and you insulted her. She was very upset. Up as in flat. > If you want to be cruel to me then come on out and fight! > > --- > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 02:53:04 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings <> Brian Hutchings 13-FEB-1999 2:53 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us "domes" are very-well represented on this list, by Moore, Urner et al. no-one at GENI has addressed the concern of "global" effects, akin to shortcircuiting the conducive elements of Earth (in the lithosphere & ionosphere e.g.), such as have already been seen during record storms in N.America. (this might be a good thing, in that the premise of world-government, organized over a moneatrized unit of energy, may be too-much of a good thing, too soon, for this planet's nation-states, such as they are. now, if you want a taxonomy of utopian movements, you'll just have to get some of our literature, but le'me just note that they have almost always been oligarchical cages, almost to a one; if you want to declaim your putative Theory of Conspiracy, as with R.Hofstedter's fallacy of *petitio principe*, don't fog the windshield so much !-) "Dome-Unit" is also analtivity, although it is just fine for the frontier, such as that of "upper" space. "I am, therefore I drivel!" http://www.tarpley.net (800/453-4108) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:03:32 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: dear pete, GENI wise. <> Brian Hutchings 13-FEB-1999 3:03 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us there is no gold in Fort Knox; the space is being used to expand Riechsminister Greenspan's plantation of printing presses, to lubricate the speculative bubble with a Weimar-style grease. I have no figures on this, but I assume that the industrial uses of gold are extensive enough to preclude its use for mere dystribution of the juice. in particular, of course, its use in microelectronics is very important, and you might want to extend that *out* from those functions (or even in the turbines), firstly. I'd like to thank anyone who helped get their Congressor, from messing with the Constitution: We have won the battle, but we have yet to fight the Gore! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:05:29 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Global Grid In-Reply-To: <199902131053.CAA14794@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 02:53:04 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 13-FEB-1999 2:53 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > "domes" are very-well represented on this list, > by Moore, Urner et al. I think David Anderson does an excellent job. I've long linked to his Monkey House from my http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeres.html (note the groovy ray tracing on that page, by me, using Bono's DOME, de Jong's STRUCK, and of course POVRAY -- all free downloads thanks to our global grid er the internet). > no-one at GENI has addressed the concern > of "global" effects, akin to shortcircuiting the conducive elements Did you really mean "conducive" or "conductive" (or is this more cutesy wordplay, deliberately foggifying your meaning)? What's the physics here? Are you positing pole reversal the day we throw the on-switch on the great trans-Sibero-Alaskan high tension hookup? > of Earth (in the lithosphere & ionosphere e.g.), such as > have already been seen during record storms in N.America. No question that solar phenomena impacting earth's magnetic field have an impact on power grids, and "space weather" has become a part of the daily TV news. The general trend is humans are monitoring an increasing range of parameters, increasingly graphically given advances in simulation tech. This is what World Game was training towards. And yes, it's a delicate-enough ecosystem which could crash (has crashed) in various ways sans human intelligence playing a responsible role in the equations. This "I'll go ahead and soil my nest here, for my reward is in some after life existence or maybe I'll get raptured while ya'll languish on an exhausted planet" syndrome (encouraged by many of the organized religions) is antithetical to the eco-aware and "more with less" ideology which the Conspiratorial Clans of Bukafka are promulgating in their Protocols from Iron-Nickel Mountain. > (this might be a good thing, in that the premise of world-government, > organized over a moneatrized unit of energy, > may be too-much of a good thing, too soon, > for this planet's nation-states, such as they are. now, I think you over-bloat the importance of political discourse with such "world-government" rot. Global infrastructure is nothing new: nature's ecosystem circuits have always been feedback loops of the "connecting around in all circumferential directions" variety. Nature is both macro and micro to sandwiched humanity, which earns its meat and potatoes by tuning in beyond the narrow band frequency limits of its native (congenital) sensing and manipulating equipment. This mind-over-brain-over-brawn hierarchy and is compatible with many existing ideologies and philosophies. Phasing in design science is more like alloying language games which already have some integrity with some engineering that really rocks. Kind of like those Gregorian chants set to a contemporary electronic beat, or Bach on a Moog. We're not asking people to tune out their favorite soaps and just watch "test pattern" 4D geometry (more stark, empty, drained of energy than Pleasantville ever was). Full blown Synergetics sponsors a full spectrum of offerings. The GRUNCH (not equals LAWCAP) has ample resources to keep governments afloat, without setting up any newfangled Tolkienesque Morder-style Pyramid- Hierarchy to "in the darkness bind them" (unless you consider the BFI the very pinnacle of sinisterism -- muuuuhahahahahah). OK, so maybe there's a gothic aspect to all this, I don't deny it. Ed Applewhite meets Vincent Price, scenarios partially overlapping. But ya know, the Bukafkans didn't invent the "collective unconscious" nor "the dark side" nor any of that. If there's an archetypal basis to our design science revolution, blame the Zeitgeist. Could be the global grid was just a part of nature's evolutionary pressure to keep the show on the road -- ala one of Prigogine's "far from equilibrium" dynamic, a chaos-in-control type thing. Dig? Like, I mean, even LaRouche prays to Platonic dieties (aka eternal principles) in a manner of speaking. No sense attacking the Bukafkans for taking a "spookier than thou" attitude in a world already up to its ears in ghostly goings-on. The more the merrier is my own Liberal Quaker Egalitarian spin (highly democratic -- check 'Synergetics' for references to Democritus, if you doubt that Fuller was fully informed as to our western ideals, when it comes to encouraging full participation of all humans -- and not just leaving it to the "soulless ones" to conduct their voodoo economics behind the scenes). > if you want a taxonomy of utopian movements, > you'll just have to get some of our literature, but I don't consider a network of technogeeks going off the deep end into Linux, Java and Synergetics a "social movement" of the usual kind. Seems to me you want to keep planting political discourse memes to keep the talk from getting too alien in the direction of pure engineering competence around the prototyping of artifacts in a Project Renaissance scenario (public service entities comprise a front lines school of hard knocks for suites of inter-operative technologies bound for the commercial market, if and when all the kinks get worked out, so that mom, dad and the kids don't end up as unwitting guinea pigs for some mad science experiment with inadequate controls -- as happens today, left and right, because "surveillance" is considered a bad word compared to "our freedom to do as we damn well please, consequences to the rest of you be damned" (more of that organized religion talk -- always we're to look to some "after life" as the "sorting out zone" in the eyes of some all-forgiving, benevolent Big Brother Patriarch -- a kind of institutionalized "manana syndrome", and very anti-Jesus at its core I'd say, given his "Kingdom is at hand" message (eternity is now, not the day after tomorrow (so "carpe diem" ya'll!")). > le'me just note that they have almost always been oligarchical cages, > almost to a one; if you want to declaim your putative Theory > of Conspiracy, as with R.Hofstedter's fallacy of *petitio principe*, > don't fog the windshield so much !-) Talk about fog! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You specialize in obfuscation and cryptic cuteness. Given you're the only LaRouchie taking the bull by the horns directly, I'm glad to have all this scrolling to archives via Geodesic (and the musty backlogs of Syn-L), as readers will judge for themselves which of us made the greater effort to write something of long haul value in the public domain. That's why I keep expecting Herr LaRouche hissssself to yank on your chain, reign you in, because you're giving away the store, lock, stock and barrel. It'll be very hard to run for USA president next time around and not have cogent paragraphs in inventory re the planned linkups of global circuits. No politician is going to stop our Myth enthusiasts from getting more simultaneous sessions going across national-political lines. Kids will do real time video- gaming, maturing to full-fledged brainstorming and storyboarding, minus allegiance to so-called "representatives" who insert themselves as the only "diploma" types worthy to mediate across political boundaries (the State Department is so creaky and old, it hurts to even think about, let alone underwrite). Sorry folks, but "diploma deflation" is already a fact of life, given the slowness of the fuddy-duds to realize that "doctor of philosophy" HAS to mean knowing at least some of what's happened in philosophy lately. The lag time in getting Synergetics phased into core curricula is ipso facto proof- positive of Dr. Fuller's central thesis: that over-specialization has gone way too far, threatening mass extinction derailment. And now the kids are waking up to that realization (no stopping it, no turning back, too late now). Having a piece of paper from Princeton or Earlham or MIT isn't gonna mean diddly when it comes to putting together top management teams for global enterprising, if you can't also prove that you did your homework, boned up on synergetics-informed general systems theory (GST) and not just brain-dead whiteman economics. > "Dome-Unit" is also analtivity, although > it is just fine for the frontier, such as that of "upper" space. > > "I am, therefore I drivel!" > http://www.tarpley.net > (800/453-4108) You most certainly do. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:08:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Global Grid <> Brian Hutchings 14-FEB-1999 4:08 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Kirby< I don't know at whose dead brain you are poking; the only "buana economics" is that of the British Commonwealth, Adam Smith e.g. (an explicit rationalizer of the Opium Wars e.g.); of course, they are all very big promoters of "systems analysis" (but Smith was just a hoaxer, and a plagiarist of Turgenot, of the "Physiocrat" school -- a "the Penguin" export to Revolutionary America). your diatribe on fundamentalist "christians" is a nonsequiter, in that you seem to be applying to some one, who is no where identified. in any case, this is just where the "world federalist" types come from, ultimately, with their British Israelitisms (as NPR put in the tease for a piece on the EuroMoneyUnit, "the Queen will not have her mug on the obverse [yet]"; you may find it to be very quaint, but her upness has been taught that she is directly descended from King Solomon, with all the requisite biblical perks attached, or else !-) the "taxonomy" to which I refer is of past & present, would-be utopian movements, not to whatever "Aquarian Conspiracy" of the followers o'Bucky, you deem worthy of inspection. now, the "petitio principi" of Hofstdater, is that the very implication of any conspiracy makes the thesis null & void --banish the thought!... the corrolary is that you take Ed Gibbons' _Decline and Fall_, Winny Churchill's _WW2_, and so on, at face-value, although they were actually written in teh service of the empire. that is why I keep stressing, "Fuller was fully informed as to our western ideals" is just not the case -- unless you take the foregoing "100 Greatest Books" as your "wetern family values". Bucky is neither hear nor their; he just be, rather naieve! finally, I don't have to have a "model" of "greatcircle railroad shuntings" through the system of propulsion of Earthship; Bucky promoted Hamaker, away back in'82. --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:17:39 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: the Good Butler <> Brian Hutchings 14-FEB-1999 4:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ah, speaking of democratic republicans & patriotic heroes, I was just reading of a Quaker General, who saved our butts from the very same fate of the Weimar Republic, financed by the very same folk; the Hitler coup. God save the Marines! see the Feb.1 issue of New Federalist (call 800/453-4108). I'd like to again thank those of you, who helped stop Rhenquist et al in *their* fascist bid for power. "We have won the battle, but we have not fought the Gore -- Junior!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:42:44 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Global Grid In-Reply-To: <199902141208.EAA22059@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Brian -- thanks for not quoting my whole posting in your reply. I am aware of the AngloRoman + JudeoChristian mix. In fingering "Malthusians", I'm doing somewhat the same, and in tie-backs to "fundamentalism" am likewise investigating some of the same ruins or ramifications (a "mighty fortress was their god" -- whereas in synergetics we go for lightweight tensegrity). But I don't have a particular name in mind as my "arch-believer" in apocalyptic "mess the Earth as you please, for she's as good as doomed already" mindlessness -- that political ideology is too prevalant to trace to any single source, too much the geni out of the bottle to keep blaming on some contemporary king or queen for propagating. In the 'Critical Path' mythos, top management of East India Tea (the Company) follows the USA flag- as-logo. Systems theory feeds critical path thinking in a "dual use" scenario: submarine cold warfaring beneath the surface, but also bright sunny Apollonian NASA-style trips to the moon. I think missing from your analysis is that Bukafkan management of assets is not new (with the 'Aquarian Conspiracy' era), and Bucky's high profile recruitment drive among the counter-culture in the Vietnam Era was not his first or only. You paint him the naive outsider whereas I paint him as precessionally entraining a veritable army of capitalism's most invisible, his required reading syllabus defining the subtle transformation of LAWCAP into GRUNCH (a glimpse of good news). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:17:25 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Global Grid <> Brian Hutchings 14-FEB-1999 14:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us over & over, again, I thank God that Bucky got tossed-out of Hahvahd (3HT5G !-)... now, as for Bucky's "required reading syllabus", I don't consider it to be outside of the realm of things-classical, or maybe a parody thereof, based upon getting through prep-school ... or, was Milton Academy just a preppy grade-school?... I only say that out of the morass of being mesmerized by _S_ for yeard, and finally finding my way to what is behind it, or precedes it. however, the notion that Bucky predated Wells' Aquarian Conspiracy, is bass-ackwards, and he had plenty of materfamilia from Aunt M.F.Ossoli and the Transcendental Phone Co. -- Hello? That is the party to which you are referring. you say, "management of assets is not new (with the 'Aquarian Conspiracy' era)", but it is not in any good hands, as you portray; on the most part, Grunch be Gog. case in point, whereas "Wall Street" and "US Imperialism" are given headline tout in The Media, and there *are* great, Tory interests, herein, actually, the center of cartel-control (and hence im[erialism) of Known Universe is "the City" of London financial district; very fitting, since the "East Tea Co." really *was* the goment of the empire (but the corporate structure is somewhat different, now). thus quoth: In the 'Critical Path' mythos, top management of East India Tea (the Company) follows the USA flag- as-logo. Systems theory feeds critical path thinking in a "dual use" scenario: submarine cold warfaring beneath the surface, but also bright sunny Apollonian --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:42:12 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: FW: four colors satisfice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Anton Sherwood [mailto:antons@jps.net] > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 5:57 PM > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: four colors satisfice > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaTetTheorem4-ColorProof.htm > > that's not a proof that four colors suffice; that's a proof that four > colors are necessary. > > a torus (genus 1) requires seven, by the way. > -- > "How'd ya like to climb this high without no mountain?" --Porky Pine > Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* http://www.jps.net/antons/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:21:45 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Integrity of this list In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Brent. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Brent A. Verrill > Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 6:33 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Integrity of this list > (snip) > > I have one request of all of you. Please limit the personal attacks and > melodrama to personal e-mail. (snip) > Brent Verrill > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:06:23 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Integrity of this list In-Reply-To: <000501be5879$2b7927c0$8708fbcf@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:21:45 -0800, you wrote: >I agree with Brent. > >Joe S Moore >mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ I don't (for reasons already posted to this list). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:28:27 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Global Grid In-Reply-To: <199902142217.OAA24783@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:17:25 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 14-FEB-1999 14:17 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > over & over, again, I thank God that Bucky got tossed-out > of Hahvahd (3HT5G !-)... now, Me too. Woulda ruined him -- Bill Gates and Bucky both got out while there was still time. > as for Bucky's "required reading syllabus", > I don't consider it to be outside of the realm > of things-classical, or maybe a parody thereof, based "Classical" sounds kinda geeky greek to me. More things- contemporary, like Philip Glass or Chuck Close. > upon getting through prep-school ... or, > was Milton Academy just a preppy grade-school?... I'd say your own insecurities are on parade here. > I only say that out of the morass of being mesmerized > by _S_ for yeard, and finally finding my way > to what is behind it, or precedes it. however, You never did, from what I've seen. The education system failed you -- failed all of us. Hence diploma deflation. You don't get to be general and not know what A and B modules are (more Gilbert and Sullivan modeling -- with maybe C.J. Rehnquist singing along in his goofy gown). > the notion that Bucky predated Wells' Aquarian Conspiracy, > is bass-ackwards, and he had plenty of materfamilia > from Aunt M.F.Ossoli and the Transcendental Phone Co. -- > Hello? That is the party to which you are referring. No, not to that party. You skip the majority of Fuller's life, going from the 1960s to pre-birth. Missed getting your dose of required reading I guess. > you say, > "management of assets is not new (with the 'Aquarian > Conspiracy' era)", but it is not in any good hands, > as you portray; on the most part, Grunch be Gog. Yes, fucked up big time -- a real SNAFU. But GRUNCH is new. Cite: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/introen.html#5 http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/introen.html#6 Note that it ain't 'Aquarian Conspiracy' which links to my grunch.html by name, but Robert Anton Wilsons dictionary of conspiracies, A-Z (with an entry under Lyndon LaRouche as well as Buckminster). > case in point, whereas "Wall Street" and "US Imperialism" > are given headline tout in The Media, and > there *are* great, Tory interests, herein, actually, > the center of cartel-control (and hence im[erialism) > of Known Universe is "the City" of London financial district; > very fitting, since the "East Tea Co." really *was* the goment > of the empire (but the corporate structure is somewhat different, > now). I'm content to part company here. You've got your trusted sources, I've got mine. For all your strut and puffery, I haven't yet come to see you as "worldly wise" enough to merit a closer reading. I studied Tarpley, waded through thick reams of website printouts over the years. I think I've got a handle on those LLR object lessons by this time -- extrapolating more along these same lines is not difficult, even minus a Hutchings-for-guide. But I'm not planning to switch to a slower horse this late in the game. Good luck with your schooling, in any case. PS: Here's from my FoxPro Advisor article on quadrays (March 1999), more by way of introduction: Kirby urner has specialized in serving the nonprofit and public sectors. His experience includes training government workers in the Himilayan Kingdom of Bhutan, and writing medical research applications for the cardiac operating room. He has also served as a high school faculty member and on the editorial staff of McGraw-Hill, focusing on computers in the classroom. Kirby's company, 4D Solutions, is presently involved in various curriculum reform and distance learning projects, as well as applications development and Web site design. [email address] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:03:10 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dave Briggs Subject: Re: Integrity of this list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Brent, I am one of those "newbies" that has been intimidated by the mental flexing. Looking into buying an existing dome and just wanted some info as I know little to nil about them. I hope some of the folks "see" themselves in your message. thanks again, Dave Briggs - Red Lion, Pa. -----Original Message----- From: Brent A. Verrill Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 1:07 PM Subject: Integrity of this list >Dear all, >I currently have over a thousand messages in my mailbox. I have subscribed >to this list for several years, contributing little and lurking. I began >to analyze why I have so many unread messages all from this list. I >realized it is because I find it tedious to wade through the personal >attacks, conspiracy drivel, and ego posturing to get those few useful >nuggets. My first though was to unsubscribe. Then I thought, why am I >running. It's my list too. Maybe I should do what I can to try to improve >things. > >Do you realize how bad all of the stupid, incessant quibbling makes us >look. In some sense, we represent the ideas of Bucky to the rest of the >world. Imagine someone just subscribing to the list who has heard about >domes and wants to find out more. All that person would see is all of the >crap and unsubscribe. I would be willing to guess that the lists >subscription base has gone down in the last year or so. I think we have a >small resposibility to show a bit more integrity than we have. > >One frequent contributer recently derided GENI and Peter Meisen for riding >on the coat tails of Bucky's ideas and notoriety. Isn't there enough room >in this list for all of us to express our ideas of Bucky's work the way we >feel will be most effective? Bucky's work is rich enough for all of us to >act on and discuss. He left us a rich heritage of ideas. There is no >admission fee or dues that need be paid to be qualified to participate in >this list. All that is needed is the interest. My interest in Bucky's >work has not faded in the 8 or so years I have been studying it. My >interest in this list had seriously faded. I believe I should give it >another chance. > >I have one request of all of you. Please limit the personal attacks and >melodrama to personal e-mail. I don't think it is useful for everyone's >time and patience to be tried on the list. If you feel it necessary to >flame someone, please, do it on a one on one basis. Better yet, just >ignore them. I already have several filters for my Bucky mail box. >Somehow, the crap keeps making its way through in the threads. > >Thank you for your time, >Brent Verrill > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:28:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Chilling machines In-Reply-To: <19990211.154816.12038.1.c.knight@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck, See 'Buckminster Fuller's Universe', pages 208-9. As far as I know, the dome pictured on page 116 of 'BuckyWorks' is the only "chilling machine" actually built so far. See also page 82 of 'Domebook 2' ("Fuller Item M"), and pages 210-11 of 'Critical Path'. Apparently it worked very well. Fuller's former architectural partners should be able to get you more details. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chuck J Knight > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:48 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Chilling machines > > I was reading BuckyWorks the other day, and got to thinking about how nice a > passively cooled dome would be, here in Texas. Has anyone actually built a > chilling machine dome? How well did it work? What were the design specs? > > -- Chuck Knight > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:13:54 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Integrity of this list Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU In-Reply-To: <36c853e0.131755331@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:21:45 -0800, you wrote: > > >I agree with Brent. > > > >Joe S Moore > >mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com > >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > > > I don't (for reasons already posted to this list). > > Kirby > I think that being civil should be a basic ground rule ... I feel that there is a common purpose that we all share on this list: to make all of humanity a success ... how each of us move on this purpose may be different and will evolve over time ... to disagree is also expected but to disagree in a manner that is hurtful rather than helpful will not help us towards the goal. This is my expectation of my students in all my classes: "To positively supposrt your learning and the learning of others" I think that this is a reasonable expectation for this list. Thanks, Paul Kosuth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:01:35 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) In-Reply-To: <01be4f27$f3089f60$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any Cloudcity dome would probably have to be a double-layer tensegrity composed of hollow, liquid-filled, unitary component struts. See 'Critical Path' pages 336-7; 'Inventions' pages 248-55; 'The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller' pages 169 & 235. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Brian > A.Stuckless > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:55 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: VACUUM LIFT --- ( A B C ) > > The following essay shows some calculations concerning > 'cloud cities' or 'sky-balls' which will hover weightlessly in the air. (snip) > bastuckless@avalon.nf.ca > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:47:35 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Integrity of this list In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >I think that being civil should be a basic ground rule ... That sounds right of course. But masters of the "civil tongue" have all kinds of ways of being hurtful, through sleight, innuendo, double entendre, rapier wit and so on. Usually you have to be an insider in "polite society" to know the fine arts of sarcasm and snobbish snideness -- all done with perfect civility, in the language of high diplomacy even. A lot of this stuff gets lost on the "great unwashed" -- which is why you need years of schooling before you can be a diplomat, so you can sound polite, civil, and make your threats and power grabs just beneath the surface (in code other diplomats understand full well). But for various reasons, that doesn't work quite so well effectively the internet. We have various levels of skill with the language, plus don't have all the body language. Plus in many groups we don't have any mechanism for bodily removing someone we consider offensive or beyond the pale in their forms of self-expression. Even on lists where everyone is in principle dedicated to always being "helpful" and never "hurtful", you'll find time and again that someone is agitated by someone else's "tone", makes a reproachful remark, and so on and on, with everyone sounding strained pretty soon, barely managing to clamp down on their own outbursts and developing negative feelings about others who appear less restrained. I'm somewhat reluctant to always go down that same path -- whether I just lurk, or post, whether I'm on my best stuffed-shirt behavior, or take another approach, it's often the same in the end: people get ugly with one another, and then get all bent out of shape because they take this ugliness as evidence of failure, as proof that someone or something is wrong with this picture -- an evil needs to be addressed. So the next step is to look for scapegoats, to find people who "ruined it for the rest of us" -- a very common pattern. My own feeling is that self-discipline is important, especially because everything you post is archived for posterity. So if you're not using a pseudonym or other dodge/mask, you're inviting people to comb through your posts and audit them in great detail -- in my case that adds up to hundreds and hundreds of posts over a span of several years. So you've got your own reputation to care about -- most definitely. On the other hand, I recall Fuller's dictum about preferring to be not understood than misunderstood -- I think maybe the premium should be on getting your communication clearly expressed, whatever that looks like -- sometimes this maybe means using "strong rhetoric" of one kind or another (even while still aiming for quality). So I'm more likely to favor "direct" over "polite" as a quality to admire, in internet communications especially. But "direct" doesn't always mean "nasty" or "ugly" by any means -- might involve humor, wit, some of the same "polite" stuff that the only-polite folks use. But I remain suspicious of "civil". "Civil" comes close to "forked tongue" so many times, with people lacking the courage to be direct, not wanting to take that risk, and so post only nicey nice stuff, platitudes even, and meanwhile harboring great animosity, and perhaps acting out in other ways, or more likely, just sinking down into pits of apathy or not caring or a "what's the use" attitude. What I find refreshing about Fuller's philosophy, and about design science in general, is that it's NOT about lecturing people to change their core nature, is NOT about fingering "original sin" as the root problem. We don't start the show with exhortations to one another, or new years resolutions, to "be good" or "be kind". I mean sure, be that way if you're able, but don't make "everybody not being polite enough" your deep-level analysis of how come the world is still such a hell hole. It least in my own reality, I can envision a world in which people kill each other with guns a lot less, but flame one another via the internet a lot more. Sounds ridiculous maybe, but don't dismiss the idea as nonsense. If we had a very clear sense of security at the basic engineering level that our physical survival was not at stake, that we would get fed even if we were assholes, then I think we might be less dangerous to one another, even if we sounded off a bit more. In fact, I'd consider that a kind of hallmark of a true democracy: when you can say "fuck you" to the King (or the dean), and not lose your head or end up rotting in some dungeon thereby, you've obviously passed a milestone in the direction of having a well-designed society, one better than the kind wherein everyone is on pins and needles all time, because the punishment for saying the "wrong thing" (perhaps just in a dissonant or dissident tone of voice) might get you banished from the warming fire, consigned to the wet and the cold, until you relearn the fine art of kissing up to your betters (the premise of some fine comedy of manners no doubt). One of the things I've taken to doing is bracketing some of my more polemical passages with XML tags, such as blah blah blah . That way people know that I'm deliberately entering a certain rhetorical mode -- the "punctuation" gives a kind of "heads up". I think that can be helpful, and will probably develop my writing further in this direction, with a little help from my friends (some of whom are thinking along similar lines -- but are already way ahead of me). Kirby PS: I think the movie "Pleasantville" in a lot of ways carries this same message -- if you can't see where I'm coming from here, maybe check it out. Personally, I want full spectrum humanity to come through in my newsgroups, and am especially drawn to communicators who know how to express themselves in "living color". >there is a common purpose that we all share on this list: to make all of >humanity a success ... how each of us move on this purpose may be different >and will evolve over time ... to disagree is also expected but to disagree >in a manner that is hurtful rather than helpful will not help us towards >the goal. > >This is my expectation of my students in all my classes: > > "To positively supposrt your learning and the learning of others" > >I think that this is a reasonable expectation for this list. > >Thanks, > >Paul Kosuth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:44:39 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mrdvkt@MERAMERA.COM Organization: @Home Network Subject: Learn The Secrets Of Classified Advertising 4379 [1/2] Nationwide NewspapersTM is a professionally developed Windows. based program. 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They can place your advertisement Loca http://www.firstchoicemkt.com/d2060.html Hope these site is helpful to promote your business. bpugqfljfuuxqglexuulhdtvivrjjcdxjklfrxjcltqyvqhtwrtplstnjpvnvtpsjix ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:30:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Integrity of this list MESSAGE from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU 16-FEB-1999 1:07 >I think that being civil should be a basic ground rule ... That sounds right of course. But masters of the "civil tongue" have all kinds of ways of being hurtful, through sleight, innuendo, double entendre, rapier wit and so on. Usually you have to be an insider in "polite society" to know the fine arts of sarcasm and snobbish snideness -- all done with perfect civility, in the language of high diplomacy even. A lot of this stuff gets lost on the "great unwashed" -- which is why you need years of schooling before you can be a diplomat, so you can sound polite, civil, and make your threats and power grabs just beneath the surface (in code other diplomats understand full well). But for various reasons, that doesn't work quite so well effectively the internet. We have various levels of skill with the language, plus don't have all the body language. Plus in many groups we don't have any mechanism for bodily removing someone we consider offensive or beyond the pale in their forms of self-expression. Even on lists where everyone is in principle dedicated to always being "helpful" and never "hurtful", you'll find time and again that someone is agitated by someone else's "tone", makes a reproachful remark, and so on and on, with everyone sounding strained pretty soon, barely managing to clamp down on their own outbursts and developing negative feelings about others who appear less restrained. I'm somewhat reluctant to always go down that same path -- whether I just lurk, or post, whether I'm on my best stuffed-shirt behavior, or take another approach, it's often the same in the end: people get ugly with one another, and then get all bent out of shape because they take this ugliness as evidence of failure, as proof that someone or something is wrong with this picture -- an evil needs to be addressed. So the next step is to look for scapegoats, to find people who "ruined it for the rest of us" -- a very common pattern. My own feeling is that self-discipline is important, especially because everything you post is archived for posterity. So if you're not using a pseudonym or other dodge/mask, you're inviting people to comb through your posts and audit them in great detail -- in my case that adds up to hundreds and hundreds of posts over a span of several years. So you've got your own reputation to care about -- most definitely. On the other hand, I recall Fuller's dictum about preferring to be not understood than misunderstood -- I think maybe the premium should be on getting your communication clearly expressed, whatever that looks like -- sometimes this maybe means using "strong rhetoric" of one kind or another (even while still aiming for quality). So I'm more likely to favor "direct" over "polite" as a quality to admire, in internet communications especially. But "direct" doesn't always mean "nasty" or "ugly" by any means -- might involve humor, wit, some of the same "polite" stuff that the only-polite folks use. But I remain suspicious of "civil". "Civil" comes close to "forked tongue" so many times, with people lacking the courage to be direct, not wanting to take that risk, and so post only nicey nice stuff, platitudes even, and meanwhile harboring great animosity, and perhaps acting out in other ways, or more likely, just sinking down into pits of apathy or not caring or a "what's the use" attitude. What I find refreshing about Fuller's philosophy, and about design science in general, is that it's NOT about lecturing people to change their core nature, is NOT about fingering "original sin" as the root problem. We don't start the show with exhortations to one another, or new years resolutions, to "be good" or "be kind". I mean sure, be that way if you're able, but don't make "everybody not being polite enough" your deep-level analysis of how come the world is still such a hell hole. It least in my own reality, I can envision a world in which people kill each other with guns a lot less, but flame one another via the internet a lot more. Sounds ridiculous maybe, but don't dismiss the idea as nonsense. If we had a very clear sense of security at the basic engineering level that our physical survival was not at stake, that we would get fed even if we were assholes, then I think we might be less dangerous to one another, even if we sounded off a bit more. In fact, I'd consider that a kind of hallmark of a true democracy: when you can say "fuck you" to the King (or the dean), and not lose your head or end up rotting in some dungeon thereby, you've obviously passed a milestone in the direction of having a well-designed society, one better than the kind wherein everyone is on pins and needles all time, because the punishment for saying the "wrong thing" (perhaps just in a dissonant or dissident tone of voice) might get you banished from the warming fire, consigned to the wet and the cold, until you relearn the fine art of kissing up to your betters (the premise of some fine comedy of manners no doubt). One of the things I've taken to doing is bracketing some of my more polemical passages with XML tags, such as blah blah blah . That way people know that I'm deliberately entering a certain rhetorical mode -- the "punctuation" gives a kind of "heads up". I think that can be helpful, and will probably develop my writing further in this direction, with a little help from my friends (some of whom are thinking along similar lines -- but are already way ahead of me). Kirby PS: I think the movie "Pleasantville" in a lot of ways carries this same message -- if you can't see where I'm coming from here, maybe check it out. Personally, I want full spectrum humanity to come through in my newsgroups, and am especially drawn to communicators who know how to express themselves in "living color". >there is a common purpose that we all share on this list: to make all of >humanity a success ... how each of us move on this purpose may be different >and will evolve over time ... to disagree is also expected but to disagree >in a manner that is hurtful rather than helpful will not help us towards >the goal. > >This is my expectation of my students in all my classes: > > "To positively supposrt your learning and the learning of others" > >I think that this is a reasonable expectation for this list. > >Thanks, > >Paul Kosuth - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 16-FEB-1999 1:30 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I agree about the Joys of Civility. we have a local group, here, a PAC, called Civic Forum, and I hope that my *suspicions about it are just that, or serve to expose the beast. as the Socialist Internationale used to bill themselves, Fascism with a Friendly Face! --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:36:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Integrity of this list <> Brian Hutchings 16-FEB-1999 1:36 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us yeah, let's kill anyone who does not get it through their thick domes, that "geodesic " refers *only* to this pastoral subject. Dome, dome on the range! --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:17:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Global Grid <> Brian Hutchings 16-FEB-1999 2:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you miss the point, in several respects (keeping in mind, Bucy's dictum about "subvisible systems" .-) my comment about Harvard is a reference to oligarchical forms of education. sd for "prep schools", I realized, after I typed that (and before I *posted* it, but I did not change it) that there are (I guess) *many* prep-schools that go through all the grades, pre-K-thru-12, and that Milton Academy was one -- I guess. now, your "monsters with Mace"; neither Phillip Glass nor Chuck Close have *any* thing to do with education in the classical, plastic arts, and would not portend, otherwise -- I hope. "classical" certainly does refer to "Classical Greece" is many respects, in the view of mankind in the image of God -- the *mind* thereof; at any rate, this was in the air, in the Grecian sphere of influence, when that bad-boy X came on the scene (but also see "The Mission of Moses" in the second volume of the Schiller Institute's Works of Schiller (our translation), about the (Jewish) Egyptian priest .-) as for Aunt Margaret Fuller, I could have sworn that Bucky spent a lot of time with her, but I'm not really sure. anyway, this is why I think that Bucky was *unconsciously* a revolutionary hero or patriot, as a sort of setting-aside of the more Tory aspects of the Transcendentalists -- anybody want to have a seance?... however, just because a product of 4 generations of classical & qua- classical education, decides to "ditch school", does not mean that we should all be happy to "not go there"; just because it sucketh?... as a *savant* from public school, it took me many lucky breaks, to get out from under that ****, or I'd still be ... what ever it is you say that I am (heh-heh). I'd really like to know, what Robert A.Wilson has to say about Lyn, in his "A-Z"; it might be quite amusing, except that he is so guilty of obfuscating the naughty Freemasons (but I've heard him lecture, so that I don't believe that that isa *purposeful* obfuscation, like he's trying to hide some thing -- as *awful* as it really seems to be, regardless.) I wish you'd stop making such goofy labels for my sociopolitical associations; on the other hand, you're the only one to even broach the matter. and thank you for the blessing re schooling; at this rate, I'll be graduating In Memorium, so to say. --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:22:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings <> Brian Hutchings 16-FEB-1999 2:22 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oy, that's *beautiful*; that really is *only* a necessary condition -- no *fewer* than 4 colors "satisfice" -- but I guess that Bucky never quite put that into words, adequate to convey the fact that "the problem was still open". thank you, mister Sherwood! thus quoth: > Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* http://www.jps.net/antons/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:58:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Integrity of this list <> Brian Hutchings 16-FEB-1999 2:58 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oh, by the way, congratulations on the King of Bhutan, actually (or apparently) giving his Council the right, to vote him out in "no confidence". of course, the "democracy schmucks" and Amnesty Intl.always insist, upon some sort of Spontaneous Revolution -- or, perhaps, Bucky-style instant satellite polling-by-pheromone! also notice, teh Indonesian goment gave the rebels of E.Timor the *choice* of either going through a process, or doing what the Dutch did in'65 (?) -- slipping the beach in the dead of night. as for "Burma", just before the L.A.City Council passed their "anti-Myanmar" boycott, I was the *only* one to speak for that regime; the putz from Unocal practically grovelled before the assembled activiste Sophomores from the universities, corralled by AI. --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:43:42 -0500 Reply-To: macro@rosanna.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James McCaig & Rosanna Martella Subject: Re: Integrity of this list In-Reply-To: <36c9ec5d.170798105@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The arguers have many interesting things to say and hold interesting points of view. However, since we know oil and water don't mix, it becomes tiresome when the goal seems to be reaction to others who are posting. If the conversation is directed to the topic, rather than using the reply function to dissect another's words, the tone automatically becomes more civil. Those of us who are lurking and interested in learning more about Bucky's ideas and methods would easily be able to decide which point of view is more appealing. When the conversation degenerates into "he said" "you said" we are all the losers. For example, what difference does it make if somebody wants to hold property they own for a price that suits them? How does this enrich the conversation? The only thing I am learning from this seemingly interminable thread is how to use the filtering capability of Outlook 98. This is costing me the opinion of some very well informed and experienced people. Please keep it to the point! James James McCaig & Rosanna Martella ROSANNA'S FREE NEWSLETTER http://www.rosanna.com mailto:macro@rosanna.com -----Original Message----- From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kirby Urner Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 11:48 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Integrity of this list >I think that being civil should be a basic ground rule ... That sounds right of course. But masters of the "civil tongue" have all kinds of ways of being hurtful, through sleight, innuendo, double entendre, rapier wit and so on. Usually you have to be an insider in "polite society" to know the fine arts of sarcasm and snobbish snideness -- all done with perfect civility, in the language of high diplomacy even. A lot of this stuff gets lost on the "great unwashed" -- which is why you need years of schooling before you can be a diplomat, so you can sound polite, civil, and make your threats and power grabs just beneath the surface (in code other diplomats understand full well). But for various reasons, that doesn't work quite so well effectively the internet. We have various levels of skill with the language, plus don't have all the body language. Plus in many groups we don't have any mechanism for bodily removing someone we consider offensive or beyond the pale in their forms of self-expression. Even on lists where everyone is in principle dedicated to always being "helpful" and never "hurtful", you'll find time and again that someone is agitated by someone else's "tone", makes a reproachful remark, and so on and on, with everyone sounding strained pretty soon, barely managing to clamp down on their own outbursts and developing negative feelings about others who appear less restrained. I'm somewhat reluctant to always go down that same path -- whether I just lurk, or post, whether I'm on my best stuffed-shirt behavior, or take another approach, it's often the same in the end: people get ugly with one another, and then get all bent out of shape because they take this ugliness as evidence of failure, as proof that someone or something is wrong with this picture -- an evil needs to be addressed. So the next step is to look for scapegoats, to find people who "ruined it for the rest of us" -- a very common pattern. My own feeling is that self-discipline is important, especially because everything you post is archived for posterity. So if you're not using a pseudonym or other dodge/mask, you're inviting people to comb through your posts and audit them in great detail -- in my case that adds up to hundreds and hundreds of posts over a span of several years. So you've got your own reputation to care about -- most definitely. On the other hand, I recall Fuller's dictum about preferring to be not understood than misunderstood -- I think maybe the premium should be on getting your communication clearly expressed, whatever that looks like -- sometimes this maybe means using "strong rhetoric" of one kind or another (even while still aiming for quality). So I'm more likely to favor "direct" over "polite" as a quality to admire, in internet communications especially. But "direct" doesn't always mean "nasty" or "ugly" by any means -- might involve humor, wit, some of the same "polite" stuff that the only-polite folks use. But I remain suspicious of "civil". "Civil" comes close to "forked tongue" so many times, with people lacking the courage to be direct, not wanting to take that risk, and so post only nicey nice stuff, platitudes even, and meanwhile harboring great animosity, and perhaps acting out in other ways, or more likely, just sinking down into pits of apathy or not caring or a "what's the use" attitude. What I find refreshing about Fuller's philosophy, and about design science in general, is that it's NOT about lecturing people to change their core nature, is NOT about fingering "original sin" as the root problem. We don't start the show with exhortations to one another, or new years resolutions, to "be good" or "be kind". I mean sure, be that way if you're able, but don't make "everybody not being polite enough" your deep-level analysis of how come the world is still such a hell hole. It least in my own reality, I can envision a world in which people kill each other with guns a lot less, but flame one another via the internet a lot more. Sounds ridiculous maybe, but don't dismiss the idea as nonsense. If we had a very clear sense of security at the basic engineering level that our physical survival was not at stake, that we would get fed even if we were assholes, then I think we might be less dangerous to one another, even if we sounded off a bit more. In fact, I'd consider that a kind of hallmark of a true democracy: when you can say "fuck you" to the King (or the dean), and not lose your head or end up rotting in some dungeon thereby, you've obviously passed a milestone in the direction of having a well-designed society, one better than the kind wherein everyone is on pins and needles all time, because the punishment for saying the "wrong thing" (perhaps just in a dissonant or dissident tone of voice) might get you banished from the warming fire, consigned to the wet and the cold, until you relearn the fine art of kissing up to your betters (the premise of some fine comedy of manners no doubt). One of the things I've taken to doing is bracketing some of my more polemical passages with XML tags, such as blah blah blah . That way people know that I'm deliberately entering a certain rhetorical mode -- the "punctuation" gives a kind of "heads up". I think that can be helpful, and will probably develop my writing further in this direction, with a little help from my friends (some of whom are thinking along similar lines -- but are already way ahead of me). Kirby PS: I think the movie "Pleasantville" in a lot of ways carries this same message -- if you can't see where I'm coming from here, maybe check it out. Personally, I want full spectrum humanity to come through in my newsgroups, and am especially drawn to communicators who know how to express themselves in "living color". >there is a common purpose that we all share on this list: to make all of >humanity a success ... how each of us move on this purpose may be different >and will evolve over time ... to disagree is also expected but to disagree >in a manner that is hurtful rather than helpful will not help us towards >the goal. > >This is my expectation of my students in all my classes: > > "To positively supposrt your learning and the learning of others" > >I think that this is a reasonable expectation for this list. > >Thanks, > >Paul Kosuth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:14:41 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck J Knight Subject: Re: Chilling machines >dome pictured on page 116 of 'BuckyWorks' is the only "chilling >machine" >actually built so far. See also page 82 of 'Domebook 2' ("Fuller This is where I learned about them. Only one has ever been built? All of the other dome innovations I've ever heard about, have been built in great numbers...lots of empirical evidence, and math derived from those tests. Does anyone have *any* numbers for a chilling machine dome? Things like inlet size vs outlet size would be helpful...and whether the effect is more or less pronounced at larger sizes, etc... I live in North Texas...last summer our temperatures soared to 114F, and 110F is not that terribly unusual. We usually have a month of 100F+ temperatures. *Any* passive cooling system would probably help. >Apparently it worked very well. Fuller's former architectural >partners should be able to get you more details. How would I contact them? -- Chuck Knight > >Joe S Moore >mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chuck J >Knight >> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:48 PM >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Chilling machines >> >> I was reading BuckyWorks the other day, and got to thinking about >how nice >a >> passively cooled dome would be, here in Texas. Has anyone actually >built a >> chilling machine dome? How well did it work? What were the design >specs? >> >> -- Chuck Knight >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:24:12 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: 4-COLOR THEOREM PROOF In-Reply-To: <199902161022.CAA05481@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See: 'Synergetics' section 541.21 and http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaTetTheorem4-ColorProof.htm Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Brian Hutchings > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 2:22 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: > > <> Brian Hutchings 16-FEB-1999 2:22 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > oy, that's *beautiful*; > that really is *only* a necessary condition > -- no *fewer* than 4 colors "satisfice" -- > but I guess that Bucky never quite put that into words, > adequate to convey the fact that > "the problem was still open". > > thank you, mister Sherwood! > > thus quoth: > > Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* http://www.jps.net/antons/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:27:15 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Integrity of this list In-Reply-To: <002601be59cb$82e7b910$0a0ac8c8@jim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:43:42 -0500, you wrote: >For example, what difference does it make if somebody wants to hold property >they own for a price that suits them? How does this enrich the >conversation? The only thing I am learning from this seemingly interminable >thread is how to use the filtering capability of Outlook 98. This is >costing me the opinion of some very well informed and experienced people. So polite you are! > >Please keep it to the point! >James >James McCaig & Rosanna Martella >ROSANNA'S FREE NEWSLETTER Personally, I thought the flame war between MSM and myself touched upon many potentially interesting and important issues regarding institutional relationships, possible future directions, and permitted uses of assets (the Fuller Projection in particular). As I punned re the ongoing flame war to Synergetics-L: "our disagreements were (and are) all over the map." [Sat, 09 Jan 1999 20:26:02 -0800]. But of all this more muted content was buried in dung, so for most readers the noise/signal ratio was far too high. Those same threads deserve to be continued however, in less noisey posts (and minus the Carbondale dome thread perhaps, which sounds like a "case closed" given the owner is entering a 2 year lease agreement). Also, I'm tired of hearing my own voice on the above topics. I've posted rather exhaustively on all of them, both inside and outside the flame war thread, on and off Geodesic. My views are all well- documented by this time. I'm not sure I have anything new to say on this topics. So time to keep my mouth shut. But I remain interested in other peoples' news and views. I think what keeps design science from making further inroads is precisely a lack of insight into institutional relationships -- and I'm not just talking about BFI, GENI or WGI. I'm going into lurk mode for awhile to see if anyone else has any worthwhile clarifying input on these matters. Just to raise a point of order: my understanding is this list is for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works, which by no stretch of the imagination is synonymous with just domes. As I wrote way back in 1991, for a BFI publication: R. Buckminster Fuller was best known for his geodesic domes. This fact has both helped and hampered our efforts to draw attention to his synergetic geometry, the "invention behind the inventions." Scientists will typically make the link between the shape of a virus or carbon molecule, and the dome's distinctive architecture, but then stop short of exploring the underlying tetrahedral geometry, because "architecture" is not virology or chemistry, and because "synergetics" is not in their vocabulary. [http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/synergetica/synergetica1.html] Domes are one thread among many -- I think most Geodesic subscribers are clear about that. Patrick Salsbury has other lists which are more exclusivesly dome-related and subscribers put off the non- dome-topical posts should reframe their understanding of Geodesic and/or the meaning of "Fuller's works". We Fuller Schoolers have precious few channels to transact our business, and we need to do so semi-publicly (this listserv's scrolling to a webfaced archives is highly useful), lest we be accused of being "too covert" or "too conspiratorial" when it starts to look like design science is all of a sudden behind a lot of what we typically refer to as "the mainstream". We'll have all these internet audit trails on file, which will prove these accusations are more empty paranoid projections than accurate records of what trully transpired, in front of God and everybody. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:30:33 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Integrity of this list Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU In-Reply-To: <36c9ec5d.170798105@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > >I think that being civil should be a basic ground rule ... > > That sounds right of course. But masters of the "civil > tongue" have all kinds of ways of being hurtful, through > sleight, innuendo, double entendre, rapier wit and so on. > thanks Kirby, I appreciate your thoughtful response. I also agree that " civil" can be "forked tongue" many times and this is not what I was intending. Acting one way and having the skills "stick it " to someone at the same time is no good either. Being direct, being true and being authentic is of the utmost importance .. while at the same time being supportive of where others are it ... rather than civil maybe I am thinking: supportive, positive and helpful. This does not turn a blind eye to negative behavior ... be direct but try to frame things so others will "hear" the message. Thanks, Paul K ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:47:07 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: world game In-Reply-To: <36cce8f5.235472070@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone on this list actually participated in the World Game ? What are your thought s and impressions ? When I first came to Carbondale in '76 there was at least 1 that I waa aware of but did not participate in .. still young and ignorant ... I could kick myself now Paul K ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:22:39 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Chilling machines In-Reply-To: <19990216.111442.4286.0.c.knight@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck, Fuller & Sadao, Inc (old BFI newsletter) 32-37 Vernon Blvd Long Island City, NY 11106 212-278-1954 Fuller, Sadao & Zung (old BFI newsletter) 1303 Prospect Ave Cleveland, OH 44115 Synergetics, Inc (9-98; Bucky's company) 122 Cox Ave Raleigh, NC 27605 http://www.synergeticsinc.com/ Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chuck J Knight > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:15 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Chilling machines > (snip) > Does anyone have *any* numbers for a chilling machine dome? Things > like inlet size vs outlet size would be helpful...and whether the effect > is more or less pronounced at larger sizes, etc... > (snip) > >Apparently it worked very well. Fuller's former architectural > >partners should be able to get you more details. > > How would I contact them? > > -- Chuck Knight > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:38:35 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Siegmund Subject: Re: world game Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Has anyone on this list actually participated in the World Game ? What are > your thought s and impressions ? When I first came to Carbondale in '76 > there was at least 1 that I waa aware of but did not participate in .. > still young and ignorant ... I could kick myself now > > Paul K > Paul, you may care to look at the Tetworld Peace Through Development Project and Game, at: http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/+index.html Thanks, Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:42:42 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: world game In-Reply-To: <199902170538.VAA29713@pop.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Thanks for the copy of your magazine. It arrived this afternoon. My article looks great. ----------------------- Paul, I've participated in at least 1 and observed 1 also. Anyone (thousands) must be able to play (for free?) at any time (via the Internet) in order for the potential of the World Game to be realized. ---------------------- Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mark Siegmund > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 9:39 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: world game > > > Has anyone on this list actually participated in the World Game > ? What are > > your thought s and impressions ? When I first came to Carbondale in '76 > > there was at least 1 that I waa aware of but did not participate in .. > > still young and ignorant ... I could kick myself now > > > > Paul K > > Paul, you may care to look at the Tetworld Peace Through > Development Project > and Game, at: http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/+index.html > > Thanks, > Mark > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:17:50 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Re: Integrity of this list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am evidently completely off the mark here. I thought this list was to discuss, promote, and put into use the technologies thought of by Buck Misterfuller. So far It has been intellectual blathering about nearly everything but. Since I am considering building a geodesic dome home and greenhouse, silly me thought this was the perfect place to find out about such things. Could someone send me some links that can give me information about these technologies? Moon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:38:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Siegmund Subject: Re: world game(joe moore) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Mark, > > Thanks for the copy of your magazine. It arrived this afternoon. My > article looks great. > ----------------------- Joe, I think it was an important contribution to the journal and to our common cause. You may care to write for our 15th year Commemorative Issue-1999--due by April 30. Mark > > Paul, > > I've participated in at least 1 and observed 1 also. Anyone (thousands) > must be able to play (for free?) at any time (via the Internet) in order for > the potential of the World Game to be realized. > ---------------------- > > Joe S Moore > mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:11:17 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Integrity of this list In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeman.html is a list of dome vendors, many of which sell plans, or at least have useful catalogs of ideas. -- Kirby On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:17:50 EST, you wrote: >I am evidently completely off the mark here. I thought this list was to >discuss, promote, and put into use the technologies thought of by Buck >Misterfuller. So far It has been intellectual blathering about nearly >everything but. Since I am considering building a geodesic dome home and >greenhouse, silly me thought this was the perfect place to find out about such >things. Could someone send me some links that can give me information about >these technologies? > > Moon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:47:45 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: WGI, GENI, BFI... Comments: cc: synergetics-l@TELEPORT.COM In-Reply-To: <199902171439.GAA27748@pop.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT The story on NPR this morning re the Muncie, Indiana cybermobile, got me feeling nostalgic for the future again. In my last post to Geodesic, mentioned already exhaustively documenting my views re design science institutions and their inter-relationships. Here's the kind of thing I was thinking about: here's me as BFI webmaster (back when I was -- Sept 1996) writing about GENI and World Game -- posting to my own Synergetics-L. Kirby ============================= Kirby Urner (pdx4d@teleport.com) Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:36:35 -0700 Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ] Next message: Rick Bono: "syn-l: Another Dome Ray Trace" Previous message: ThomasM451@aol.com: "Re: syn-l: achtung -- eigentrigon!" At 10:39 PM 9/9/96 -0400, you wrote: >Sorry. Please say hello to M.G. from John Applegath if you are friendly >with M.G. Otherwise, sorry to bother you. After working on careful >msgs., I revert to garbage. Too much trading room, not enough academe. > >Steve > Steve -- Trading room reflexing OK. My understanding is some trading rooms can be more like videogames in their training of lightning-fast reflexes in response to cues, a kind of training in short supply within academe, except maybe in the engineering departments, from whence fast-action computer games spread across campus, engaging kids in network-enabled games of 'getting to know you' like Marathon 2 (now available for Win95/NT!) True, blowing someone's visual avatar away can seem a hostile maneuver, but in a properly staged environment, competitive games of skill are a good way for humans to swiftly update one another on what's up in whatever context e.g. if you're into some martial art thing, you can learn a lot from getting flipped or tripped by some opponent. Lots of good student-teacher activity here, with roles reversing, re-reversing etc. Of course there's potential for abuse here as everywhere, or what can appear like abuse to the novitiate. My friend Peter went to Japan to study martial arts in the Dojo (sp?) and the black belts just kept beating him up, sometimes pretty severely. They never let up, they never let him in. I don't have much insight into how they run their school in Dojo world, but sometimes you have to wonder if there's anything worth the price on the inside, if they're so mean on the outside. Peter went on to become a successful investment banker (he speaks and writes Japanese better than a lot of Japanese do) and practices Tai Chi, sometimes flying to Taiwan to get updated by the masters in that field. On the difference between World Game (Medard Gabel's) and World Game (Fuller's substitution for admiralty's war games of yesteryear), a couple things. First, you might want to read my first-person account of the Buckminster Fuller Centennial Celebration in San Diego last July. Medard Gabel, and a lot of other characters I like to track and back (when my character sees a way) are mentioned in the story line. My friend David scanned some photos I took at that event which I added to the narrative. You can find this piece at: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/geni.html. GENI, by the way, is Peter Meisen's vehicle for researching and publicizing the World Game strategy of continuing with the electrical grid integration that's been going on (he has a website). Fuller saw the global grid as an artifactual apparatus ("of science!" I can hear Bill Nye the Science Guy interjecting) that would have precessional 'gap closing' powers in our more ideologically-based information processing languages. Like, if the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA) feels the grid it feeds with Columbia River wattage is contiguous with (the same as) the grid fed by other rivers and their counter-part administrations in Siberia, that'll change the psychology of the lines people and other engineers -- in both hemispheres. Secondly, I'd make the literary link to Shakespeare here, and his fave Globe Theater device of embedding a 'play within a play.' This convention (in Hamlet, in Midsummer Night's Dream) creates some self-consciousness in the audience, perhaps. They might have felt entranced by the play and 'forgetten themselves' like in a darkened movie theater, where you get lost in the action. When you see the characters in the play watching a play, you think 'hey, just like me, *I'm* watching a play too." Then, if the play-within-a-play is somehow 'about' the world outside the play (as in Hamlet, where the play is about the murder of a king, being shown to a king murderer), then viewers in the audience start thinking "hmmmmmm, maybe Shakespeare is making some kind of point here about *us*!" etc. In short, if you add a level of depth going inward (inside the play) you can have the effect off putting in a mirror and having the audience see themselves, as framed by the dramatic context of the play (like, the audience is suddenly aware if the play's ability to reach out and be about *them*). So Medard's World Game helps create awareness of World Game by using a gymnasium sized world map (Fuller Projection) and having the participants run around on it, gigantic in proportion, wheeling and dealing, pretending to run the world, or at least engaging in high level negotiations aimed at meeting its many challenges. Even as we play, in our mind's eye we might see this little gymnasium from a satellite's viewpoint, our cars parked in the lot, little specks of oil tankers (Shell, BP...) moving along the shipping lanes, feeding our cars with crude from under the deserts of the Middle East, where Filipino domestic wage-slaves serve their abusive spoiled, rich-brat masters, sending hard currency back to Cebu, where a Peace Corps volunteer helps with fish farming (in collaboration with an FAO expert) and writes home to mom and dad, who live in San Diego, and who are now standing on a large gymnasium-sized map... play within a play. World Game's trainers are conscious of this mirroring function and are wont to say things like "you thought *this* was World Game you were playing, but no, as World Game players, your job is out there, outside this gym. That's where the *real* World Game gets played." But getting back in the car to drive home, mom and dad may feel the 'scale difference' rather acutely. In the gym, they were giants, getting the Pope to approve birth control, having the world's hungry fed and clothed in no time. Outside the gym, they're Mr. & Mrs. Citizen, prey to industries more than captains of, marginalized by political players as mere voters, brains targeted to be bamboozled by advertizers and propaganda artists of every ilk. Of course these are probably pretty smart folks (or they wouldn't have been playing World Game with Medard), and they can see through a lot of the garbage that's being fed to them, but that doesn't remove their sense of helplessness. But there's hope. Given the internet, slow scan TV, the fancy new artifacts in the wings, e.g. Jay Baldwin's PillowDome and like that, plus Omnimax theater technology and so on, we can imagine a more campus-like World Game headquarters (or network of such, dotting the globe, with traveling road show avatars, like the BizMos I've written about (jazzed up 'bookmobiles' bringing an exciting, refreshing sense of worldy futurism to the hinterlands)). People venturing to engage in World Game experiences in these EPCOT-like campus communities would think, "hey, there's some major resource allocation going on here, like these World Game engineers are getting some *serious* backing." In a setup like that, with monitors everywhere flashing current statistics, coldly factual exhibits on armaments transfers, models of the global fossil fuels economy, interactive computer games plugged into real world data banks re agriculture, energy etc. ("games of Science!" I can hear Nye of Nye Labs interject -- he's getting Walt Disney backing these days, by the way, more power to him!), it wouldn't even seem out of place to have the real Pope come on screen, to pontificate about the Vatican's line on birth control, to the assembled players (if he doesn't want to do this weekly, we can get the Vatican to supply World Game with what it considers to be God's current views as relayed from its Papal Studios). Anyway, players will have lots of chances to interview talking heads, live, coming from having done some serious crash-course brainstorming over all the relevant material. Some of the academic interviewees may be taken off guard by the timeliness and sophistication of the players' questions. Like, how'd World Game manage to leap frog the universities and promote 'doing your own thinking' without even offering first dibs to the economics and political science faculties? "Like, how come Buckminster Fuller's friends get to play with high tech equipment and interview experts when Fuller was such a wide-eyed, naive, innocuous, little egghead who never under- stood the real world? Why should *his* school get so much backing? And what the hell is IBM up to with that goddamn rave review of 'Synergetics on the Web'? Doesn't IBM know that Synergetics isn't a legitimate academic subject yet? Doesn't IBM know that it never will be -- at least not until academia says so!" Gnash gnash. If World Game had this kind of backing, then mom and dad, getting back in the parking lot (having seen their car from a satellite's point of view, real time on a big screen, as part of their World Game training), wouldn't be feeling so helpless. They'd be thinking, even though we have to go grocery shopping and watch TV tonight, around the world people are doing these high powered World Game trainings, really learning what makes their world tick, really developing a sense of committment and responsibility, and overcoming any shyness whatsoever about calling experts on the mat and engaging them in whatever judo flips and kung fu maneuvers the Fuller School has taught them. And yes, it'll always be a two way street. The Fuller School has no monopoly on wisdom or fancy moves, no reason to say 'we only export teachings, never import.' That'd be extremely silly. But definitely the Fuller School has some serious supplies to contribute to the global game, some waiting in the wings in inventory, some stored up on library shelves, some floating in deep waters, some queued up on hard disks and file servers, some publicly accessible via the web, some scrolling into BFI archives via Synergetics-L. A merging traffic pattern, this. Marshalling resources big time! Welcome to our Globe Theater. Lights, Camera... Kirby BFI webmaster - ---------------------------------------------------- Kirby Urner "All realities are virtual" -- KU Email: pdx4d@teleport.com Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:10:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Integrity of this list In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael, The following sections of my web site have a ton of info & links to dome-related stuff: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesGeneral-A-G.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesGeneral-H-O.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesGeneral-P-S.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesGeneral-T-Z.htm . See also http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/Biblio.htm . Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael Hissom > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 10:18 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Integrity of this list > > I am evidently completely off the mark here. I thought this list was to > discuss, promote, and put into use the technologies thought of by Buck > Misterfuller. So far It has been intellectual blathering about nearly > everything but. Since I am considering building a geodesic dome home and > greenhouse, silly me thought this was the perfect place to find > out about such > things. Could someone send me some links that can give me > information about > these technologies? > > Moon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:12:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: Integrity of this list Comments: To: Michael Hissom In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Michael Hissom wrote: > I am evidently completely off the mark here. I thought this list was to > discuss, promote, and put into use the technologies thought of by Buck > Misterfuller. So far It has been intellectual blathering about nearly > everything but. Since I am considering building a geodesic dome home and > greenhouse, silly me thought this was the perfect place to find out about such > things. Could someone send me some links that can give me information about > these technologies? Linkname: GEODESIC DOMES URL: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/dome.html This list (geodesic), like all open-ended conversations, has its ebbs and flows. Sometimes it's better than other times and it's always at least as good as what you personally add to the mix. And I think you mean Buckminster Fuller instead of "Buck Misterfuller." Good luck with the domes - the above URL will be very helpful. - Trevor -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:16:31 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: the tensegrity of this list <> Brian Hutchings 18-FEB-1999 6:16 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oh, Joe, I meant to say, I'd always thought that the "unit-strut" tensegrity was an idea, that never panned-out, that Bucky took back, after the 90-strut (?) tensegrity's picture was published as an example of it (in Critical Path, I think). on the other hand, it did just occur to me, that it'd be possible to adjust the tensile net, such that it *could* use only one size of strut (but there'd be no corresponding repetition in the strings .-) if there's any more written on this, we could probably spruce it "up" with the MacLuhan Fog Gun! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:49:48 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: YOUR WEB SITE Comments: To: info@winkworks.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles, What happened to your website?!!! http://www.winkworks.com/books/index.html Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:55:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Bucky's map Comments: To: Mark Siegmund In-Reply-To: <199902191413.GAA25286@pop.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, It is my understanding that the Buckminster Fuller ESTATE mailto:EstateBF@aol.com )owns all of Bucky's copyrights. Jaime Snyder is the executor of the estate. Allegra Snyder owns personally the BF Archives. BTW, which version of the map? There were several, each copyrighted separately. See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFDrawings.htm Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Siegmund [mailto:siegmund@thegrid.net] > Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 6:14 AM > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Bucky's map > > Hi Joe, > > Do you know who owns the Dymaxion Map copyright--and is it possible to be > granted use of the map--and do you know the conditions for use? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:37:48 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: Bucky's map Comments: To: Joe S Moore In-Reply-To: <000101be5c5a$e9c0eee0$a608fbcf@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Joe S Moore wrote: > It is my understanding that the Buckminster Fuller ESTATE > mailto:EstateBF@aol.com )owns all of Bucky's copyrights. Jaime Snyder is > the executor of the estate. Allegra Snyder owns personally the BF Archives. > BTW, which version of the map? There were several, each copyrighted > separately. > See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFDrawings.htm My 1992 "Fuller Projection Dymaxion[tm] Air-Ocean World" map (published by the BFI) states "The word Dymaxion and the Dymaxion map design are trademarks of the Buckminster Fuller Institute (C) 1938, 1967, 1980 & 1992 Buckminster Fuller Institue. All rights reserved." It also directs inquiries to the BFI. I have heard (no documentation comes to mind) that the World Game Institute also has special access to this map as a promotional tool for World Game. - Trevor -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:33:47 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Bucky's map In-Reply-To: <000101be5c5a$e9c0eee0$a608fbcf@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:55:15 -0800, you wrote: >Mark, > >It is my understanding that the Buckminster Fuller ESTATE > mailto:EstateBF@aol.com )owns all of Bucky's copyrights. Jaime Snyder is >the executor of the estate. Allegra Snyder owns personally the BF Archives. I don't think this is correct. Some of the copyrights were donated to the BFI, in part to help make the Institute self-funding. In particular, BFI was given the rights to the Fuller Projection -- at least this was what Jaime told me on the phone a couple years ago. Also that he had no intention of putting the whole archives in the public domain -- but that his mom still had the final say-so on that. In any case, you'll find various assets in circulation with the BFI as copyright holder. Given BFI is a public service corporation with an independent board, we cannot consider the Fuller Projection to be simply a "family heirloom" or anything like that -- and given Allegra has plenty of integrity, I don't think she'd ever try to keep BFI from sharing the map in ways that were consistent with Fuller's hopes and dreams (but I suggest we lower the boom if someone mars it with those silly colored jigsaw puzzle pieces i.e. those obsolete nation-states with all their silly, dangerous games with high explosives). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:51:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: FOR SALE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Expo'67 Postcard for sale at eBay; see: Item #67340479 "Wonderful divided back, used item that has the Expo 67 in Montreal, Canada. A huge transparent geodesic "Skybreak bubble" on pavilion of the United States. 250 ft. in spherical diameter and 200 ft. high. Postmark on back is dated 1967, and item is in wonderful condition. SEE PHOTO" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=67340479 Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:49:54 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: (no subject) Comments: To: Lorlorance@aol.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Loretta, 'The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller' on page 18 mentions that a French architect talked about a "Machine-for-Living" (before Bucky?). If Bucky used the term it would probably be in '4D Time Lock', but that book does not have an index. I quickly skimmed it but found nothing. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Lorlorance@aol.com [mailto:Lorlorance@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:22 PM > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Cc: belt@Oswego.EDU > Subject: (no subject) > > Hi, Joe. How are you? I am writing to you at the suggestion of John Belt. > > I've been trying to determine when Bucky first used the phrase > "machine for living." I think it was with the Wichita House, but, can't find > it in my notes or any books. > > It's a strange detail, but, I'm working on my dissertation which > will be full of strange details. > > Thanks. > > Loretta Lorance > lorlorance@aol.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:55:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Desert Dome Project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE5DC3.4E480060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE5DC3.4E480060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I was off the list for awhile. (My delete button got stuck while going through Brian Hutchings=20 messages) hahahaha.=20 I've been working on my 'Desert Dome' page and would like to submit it for your approval, disapproval,=20 sarcasm, constructive critism etc. etc. But especially constructive=20 input. I'm thinking of creating a Design Science web site. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html Thanks,=20 Mark Somers ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE5DC3.4E480060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
I was off the list for awhile. (My = delete=20 button
 got stuck while going through = Brian=20 Hutchings
 messages) hahahaha. =
 
I've been working on my 'Desert Dome' = page
 and would like to submit it = for your=20 approval, disapproval,
sarcasm, = constructive=20 critism etc. etc. But especially constructive
 input. I'm thinking of creating a Design = Science web=20 site.
 
http://ww= w.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html
 
Thanks,
 
Mark Somers
 
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE5DC3.4E480060-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:27:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Buckyballworld <> Brian Hutchings 21-FEB-1999 19:27 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops. <> Brian Hutchings 21-FEB-1999 18:25 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us what has always been obsolete, is your oligarchical rant *about* "nation-states" -- Bucky can also be forgiven for that, I suppose. (my take on Aunt Margaret, is that she became Prince Ossoli's "minister of information", or of "propoganda", as they used to say. still have not determined, whose "side" she was on, in Teddy Roosevelt's imperialist wa the Spanish-American one, or what Hemingway was blathering about, either !-) thus quoth: lower the boom if someone mars it with those silly colored jigsaw puzzle pieces i.e. those obsolete nation-states with all their silly, dangerous games with high explosives). --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:24:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Desert Dome Project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4AAD9FDCC162EBA9B917C4BD" --------------4AAD9FDCC162EBA9B917C4BD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting mark! There is dignity in your trip here. As possible the only problem is no one but good people care about these ideas and there are no good people in power to do these things. The malthusian Alfred North Whitehead Dilemma is still in power and in our life time, these are just sculptures of thought. You can do this if you pay for it. But as I stated good ideas with real science behind it, I am very impressed. Great thinking!, ~ :-) Michael S. Mitchell Every view of every event has relative new ideas about the same event, therefore all of us are equal in the ability to share and learn from each other. Intuition is allowed by any and all events, therefore any amount of ideas have the potential to inspire any amount of other ideas. Some ideas are just plain great. No one knows how these kind of ideas come about. They are teleported by intuition of experience. I had a few great moments in your site here. Thank you for the attempt to see this event, I have been inspired in viewing the idea. Thank you for allowing me permission to put the book on my site. http://home.earthlink/~syntrivity/index.html > I've been working on my 'Desert Dome' page and would like to submit it > for your approval, disapproval,sarcasm, constructive critism etc. etc. > But especially constructive input. I'm thinking of creating a Design > Science web > site. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html Thanks, Mark > Somers --------------4AAD9FDCC162EBA9B917C4BD Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting mark!
There is dignity in your trip here.
As possible the only problem is no one
but good people care about these ideas
and there are no good people in power
to do these things.  The malthusian
Alfred North Whitehead Dilemma is
still in power and in our life time,
these are just sculptures of thought.
You can do this if you pay for it.
But as I stated good ideas with real
science behind it, I am very impressed.
Great  thinking!, ~    :-)
Michael S. Mitchell
Every view of every event has relative
new ideas about the same event, therefore
all of us are equal in the ability to share
and learn from each other.
Intuition is allowed by any and all
events, therefore any amount of ideas
have the potential to inspire any amount
of other ideas. Some ideas are just
plain great. No one knows how these
kind of ideas come about.  They are
teleported by intuition of experience.
I had a few great moments in your
site here.
Thank you
for the attempt to see this event, I have
been inspired in viewing the idea.
Thank you for allowing me permission
to put the book on my site.
http://home.earthlink/~syntrivity/index.html
I've been working on my 'Desert Dome' page and would like to submit it for your approval, disapproval,sarcasm, constructive critism etc. etc. But especially constructive input. I'm thinking of creating a Design Science web site. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html Thanks, Mark Somers 
  --------------4AAD9FDCC162EBA9B917C4BD-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:52:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: (no subject) Comments: To: lorlorance@aol.com In-Reply-To: <000001be5dd3$5a72ace0$8808fbcf@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lorlorance@aol.com [mailto:Lorlorance@aol.com] > > Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:22 PM > > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > > Cc: belt@Oswego.EDU > > Subject: (no subject) > > > > Hi, Joe. How are you? I am writing to you at the suggestion of John Belt. > > > > I've been trying to determine when Bucky first used the phrase > > "machine for living." I think it was with the Wichita House, but, can't > find > > it in my notes or any books. > > > > It's a strange detail, but, I'm working on my dissertation which > > will be full of strange details. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Loretta Lorance > > lorlorance@aol.com The phrase also does not appear in a quick scan of "Inventions." - Trevor -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:27:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Desert dome and the book A.F.E. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE5E02.80D8F400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE5E02.80D8F400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Mike for your kind words.=20 The on line book is done "A Fuller Explanation is done. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html I even created a zip file of the whole shooting match,=20 along with a zip file with some help of the text alone. You might might want to scan the desert dome page again since I've added some more stuff including hypertext links to it in the last few hours after I first posted the link on this thread. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html I also want to take this time to brag about my name being posted=20 on the World Game Institutes donor page. I saw it just a few weeks ago. http://www.worldgame.org/info/donors.html Yep, right up there with the likes of Arthur C. Clarke.=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE5E02.80D8F400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Mike for your kind words. =
 
The on line book is done "A = Fuller=20 Explanation is done.
 
http://www.angelf= ire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html
 
I even created a zip file of the whole shooting = match,=20
along with a zip file with some help of the text=20 alone.
 
You might might want to scan the desert dome page=20 again
 since I've added some more stuff including = hypertext=20 links to it
 in the last few hours after I first posted the = link on=20 this thread.
 
http://ww= w.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html
 
I also want to take this time to brag about my name = being=20 posted
on the World Game Institutes donor page. I saw it = just a few=20 weeks ago.
 
http://www.worldgame.o= rg/info/donors.html
 
Yep, right up there with the likes of Arthur C. = Clarke.=20
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE5E02.80D8F400-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:06:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Trevor at J. Whirler" Subject: How to Build a Geodesic Dome Comments: To: Synergetics-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If there is any one Frequently Asked Question online in the 'Fuller School' (an unsupervised collection of mailing lists, Web pages and other online forums relating to R. Buckminster Fuller ) it is "How do I build a geodesic dome?" I have created a Web page to address this question. It is... http://www.jwhirler.com/dome01.html This is a model of a 3-frequency 5/8ths sphere dome. The instructions are detailed enough to know what you are doing and why, but vague enough to encourage experimentation in how it is built (decision can be made to use glue or paper fasteners, to overlap flaps or join edges, etc.). It is designed for any Web browser (even the non-graphic ones) and for all levels of English (young readers, English as a second language, translation software, etc.) and all levels of mathematics (all terms are defined before they are used). It can be viewed as an activity in itself or as an introduction to synergetics, the mathematics behind geodesic domes. My target was any group or individual who had never made a dome before, be they adult architects or children just starting school. Your comments are most welcome! - Trevor Telephone: +503-236-2364 Fax: +503-232-0664 -- Trevor Blake http://www.jwhirler.com/ J. Whirler Used and Rare Children's Books P. O. Box 2321 Portland OR 97208-2321 USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:28:42 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: (no subject) Comments: To: Lorlorance@aol.com In-Reply-To: <14273c9c.36d0663a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Loretta, I checked the 'Synergetics Dictionary' (4 vols) under a bunch of different headings and to my surprise it appears Bucky never actually used the term "Machine for Living" himself! I also checked my "Bucky Fuller Master Index" on my web site (a compilation of published Bucky-book indexes) without success. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Lorlorance@aol.com [mailto:Lorlorance@aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 1999 12:02 PM > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Re: (no subject) > > Hi, Joe. Thanks. I must have missed it on that page. > > Le Corbusier used the term machine a habiter: machine for living > in. Fuller > truncated it to show how his idea/house differed from LC's. I have my own > outline/notes from 4D on the computer and couldn't find it in > those. I think I would have caught it. > > Do you think it might be in the Synergetics Dict. that Ed Applewhite put > together? > > Thanks. > > In a message dated 2/21/99 2:59:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, > joemoore@cruzio.com writes: > > << Loretta, > > 'The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller' on page 18 mentions > that a French > architect talked about a "Machine-for-Living" (before Bucky?). If Bucky > used the term it would probably be in '4D Time Lock', but that > book does not > have an index. I quickly skimmed it but found nothing. > > Joe S Moore > mailto:joemoo >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:22:46 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: the tensegrity of this list In-Reply-To: <199902181416.GAA18574@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian, To my surprise, the only reference that I can find regarding Unitary Component Tensegrities (270 or more struts) is in 'The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller' on page 169 (figs.279-80). I quote: "...every component is identical". Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Brian Hutchings > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 6:17 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: the tensegrity of this list > > <> Brian Hutchings 18-FEB-1999 6:16 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > oh, Joe, I meant to say, > I'd always thought that the "unit-strut" tensegrity was an idea, > that never panned-out, that Bucky took back, > after the 90-strut (?) tensegrity's picture was published > as an example of it (in Critical Path, I think). > on the other hand, > it did just occur to me, that it'd be possible > to adjust the tensile net, such that it *could* use only one size > of strut (but there'd be no corresponding repetition > in the strings .-) > > if there's any more written on this, > we could probably spruce it "up" with the MacLuhan Fog Gun! > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:22:08 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: the tensegrity of this list <> Brian Hutchings 22-FEB-1999 13:22 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us yes, that's where I saw the picture, im Marks' (?) book. 270 was in deed the number of those struts, I guess in the full spheric. if the "unitariness" at all "frequencies", besides zeroth, can be imposed, without significant loss of structural integrity --like, say, a convexity or 12-- then we should know about that. the neatest thing about that little project, whether or not the unitary part is bogus, was the shape of the struts; they were like pointy cigars, designed to maximize the compression that they could handle, at least as a rough ideal. I recall, they were made of fiberglass-reinforced resin. thus quoth: To my surprise, the only reference that I can find regarding Unitary Component Tensegrities (270 or more struts) is in 'The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller' on page 169 (figs.279-80). I quote: "...every component is identical". The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:30:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: the birth of a nation <> Brian Hutchings 23-FEB-1999 0:30 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us testicles: one, two, three -- hey! sorry; is this list operative? anyway, here is one of Bucky's greatest formulations --aside from busting the paradox of "wave-particle duality", of course-- of the 20th CCE, as it were: the "relativistical" nonsimultaneity of *scenario* Universe. (actually, both of those are related .-) however.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:11:12 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: dear pete, GENI wise. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'One of the world-around's most immediately critical problems is that of how to facilitate the swift development of all human individuals' discovery of all we know about human life on board Spaceship Earth at this moment in Universe -- and how so to learn in the shortest possible time.' -- Buckminster Fuller Michael, please post the quotes you have found, if you have time. Clearly, the highest priority of the BFI, WGI, and GENI is to educate and inform humanity that we have the option to free the world of poverty. And clearly more efforts are needed, soon! > > Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > I have found many > : articles that state education and to inform humanity > : is the highest priority to invest into. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:07:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: A Fuller Ex.... zip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spaceship Earth, by Trevors suggestion I've removed the HTML capabilities from my e-mail so I'm not sure how the content of this message will come across. I've set the plain text preferences. Here's the page that has the zip file link: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/42.html Here's the zip file link itself: http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Somers/afullerex.zip Trevor, I've been using microsofts Outlook Express lately. I did that because I loaded Explorer so as to check my web pages. And a little while after that my Netscape program started crashing something fierce. I looked into installing Linux but I don't have enough RAM to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux. I've got 32 Megs of RAM and if I remember right to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux I need a minimum of 64 Megs of RAM. What do you suggest? Thanks, Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:28:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Zip files and programs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spaceship Earth here's a link to WinZip. Winzip is what I used to bundle the zip file A Fuller Explanation. http://www.winzip.com/ I used their 'try out' program. I've gotten tired of buying programs on CD. Windows sucks big ass time there isn't enough room on this thread for me to go on how much I think Windows sucks. Suffice it to say if the software vendors of the world want me to shell out another dime they had better get microsoft to pull their heads out of their asses and create a descent operating program. I don't make money on the internet and the riliability of Windows is so low that I dare not even use any programs especially book keeping and such on my computer. Death to Microsoft.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:43:23 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: A Fuller Ex.... zip Comments: To: Mark Somers In-Reply-To: <000301be5f46$a307cf20$b2c196d0@home.wtp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Mark Somers wrote: > Spaceship Earth, by Trevors suggestion I've removed > the HTML capabilities from my e-mail so I'm not sure > how the content of this message will come across. Came across just fine! > Trevor, I've been using microsofts Outlook Express lately. I did that > because I loaded Explorer so as to check my web pages. And a little > while after that my Netscape program started crashing something > fierce. I looked into installing Linux but I don't have enough RAM to > run Netscape 4.5 on Linux. I've got 32 Megs of RAM and if I remember > right to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux I need > a minimum of 64 Megs of RAM. > What do you suggest? If you stick with Windows, get Opera (a smaller and faster browser, only $35) at... http://www.operasoftware.com/ ... and you'll have more hard drive and fewer problems all around. Moving to Linux is a great idea (I intend to) but Opera isn't portable to Linux yet so I don't know what to suggest. I'd guess there are some stripped down versions of Netscape now that it is open source - worth hunting for. Thanks again for making this book available! -T. -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:52:23 -0500 Reply-To: spammers.eat.used.kitty.litter.coolbear@earthlink.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jonathan Thompson Subject: Re: A Fuller Ex.... zip In-Reply-To: <000301be5f46$a307cf20$b2c196d0@home.wtp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It may not be speedy (if things are really THAT tight) but virtual memory allows you to run anything (well, execute, even if it doesn't exactly RUN!) on a system if you have enough virutal memory. It has been a while since I've messed with linux, but you need to make sure you have appropriate swap file(s) set up and in use. There is no legitimate reason for any typical application to actually REQUIRE 32 (or more ) megs of PHYSICAL memory. The only time you might need that much physical (virtual memory is considered logical address space) is when you have DMA or other bus mastering devices page locking large amounts of the physical address space. What it means to lock down (page lock) memory in memory is to prevent it from being part of memory that can be moved around by the virtual memory system when the system needs more ram. The more page locked memory you have, the less available to other processes that can be in virtual memory that is actually located in physical memory (ie, swapped in at one time) though it does NOT reduce the maximum potential memory that process can use (unless of course, it also wants to page lock memory, and there is only so much physical memory). A general application that locks that large of an amount of memory and prevents it from being paged is a worthless hog. The only times you might need to lock down that kind of memory is when you need real-time, deterministic application execution, and a limited amount perhaps for time sensitive stuff such as video processing. You will not need that much physical memory page locked to do that, though. So, if Netscape actually requires that much PHYSICAL memory to run, and can't be shoehorned into virtual memory, they have created a piece of crap. I have real-time embedded application development experience, and have personally modified the Linux kernel to do my bidding. Back when I did that (1995-96) there were no devices drivers that locked more than 32k of memory at a time. Windows 9x and NT are not much different on that score. NT has a very small amount of page locked memory (at most, last time I knew, about 128K) and 9x is at the mercy of device driver writers, who have a little more latitude for the amount of memory that can be locked down at one time. Hope I didn't blow any minds or go into more detail than desired here, but I wanted to clear up some misconceptions. Remove the comment about kitty litter to reply! spammers.eat.used.kitty.litter.coolbear@earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mark Somers > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11:08 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: A Fuller Ex.... zip > > > Spaceship Earth, by Trevors suggestion I've removed > the HTML capabilities from my e-mail so I'm not sure > how the content of this message will come across. I've set > the plain text preferences. > > Here's the page that has the zip file link: > http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/42.html Here's the zip file link itself: http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Somers/afullerex.zip Trevor, I've been using microsofts Outlook Express lately. I did that because I loaded Explorer so as to check my web pages. And a little while after that my Netscape program started crashing something fierce. I looked into installing Linux but I don't have enough RAM to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux. I've got 32 Megs of RAM and if I remember right to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux I need a minimum of 64 Megs of RAM. What do you suggest? Thanks, Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:18:56 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Planar Nonexistence Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Challenging myself to confirm Fuller's suggestions there are no "two dimensional" "flat" planes in real life, I came up with this: the beam of a light is crossed by the beam of another light, each a distinct color. Where they cross a third color is produced. All this occurs in near vacuum. Is the third color area a flat plane? -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:55:29 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Comments: To: ZwebMaster@formz.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sirs, Geodesic domes can be derived from tetrahedra & octahedra, in addition to icosahedra. Ref auto-des-sys's 3D modeling program "form-Z": http://www.formz.com/ Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:17:12 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: Nature's Coordinate System MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > I ment to say football stadium size map. One to fit the Rose Bowl. > With the Rolling Stones and the Beatles playing to unite the world. > Dylan, Michael Jordan, The president and his wife, Tutu, and all the > others. The pope, Oko Lennon and Shawn, etc. > TV sat, all over the world with Allegra as host. This new company > that took over all the sites for concerts should do this? Also a movie > at the same time of Bucky's life written by me and Toni Huston, played > by Mr. Holland. If we want to make a difference this should happen. > Also the World Man Band with me on drums of course. > > Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > > I was once with Bucky and Medard in Colorado and Bucky kept > > saying to Medard that we need a football size Dymaxion map. > > This would allow stadiums of people to play on the map, with > > a very high focus of the house they live in under their feet as he > > stated. Medard I am sure has not forgotten this artifact and > > is in the planning of a prototype for this size. I wanted to do this > > for the world game 2000 at football fields all over the world with > > rock bands for uniting the world in design science unification > > management. I have no way to make this happen so it is a dream > > for another time. This is still a great idea. > > > > I am selling the dome in Carbondale in 1 1/2 weeks to the highest > > bidder. I have one bid cash of 54K, and my highest bid now is 66K. > > If anyone is interested to get their bid in send it to me E-Mail or call. This will be closed bids from now on. > > Thank you, for your time. > > I am getting married and must sell now to cash out and hope > > that it goes to someone that will take good care of it and help > > do what is best. 310 306-1913 > > > > http:/home.earthlink/~syntrivity/index.html > > > > The Carbon model in Carbondale has taxes of 1400 per yr. > > It is rented for 7200 per year. > > This is the same as the interest off 100K in the bank. > > If you would like to own the home of all domes to > > roam home from some where, let me know. > > For Sale to highest bidder. Bucky and Anne's dome home. > > > > Bonnie DeVarco wrote: > > > > > Hi, Kirby and Aaron, > > > > > > Kirby, just want to mention that it was Bob Gray who wrote the computer program > > > that allowed the projection of the Dymaxion Map to be rendered in the > > > Worldsat/BFI satellite version of the d-map om 1995. Then, a year ago, Bob also > > > did the xyz coord conversion for the largest satellite projection of the Dymaxion > > > Map which debuted at the American Museum of Natural History in NY City in > > > December 1997 (the Sat version of the Big Map now owned by World Game and whose > > > development was spearheaded by Tony DeVarco. Bob must have a lot of knowledge > > > for a GIS system based on this work. It is certainly worth a nice discussion at > > > any rate. Great questions, Aaron. > > > > > > Best! > > > > > > Bonnie DeVarco > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:54:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Re: Planar Nonexistence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: P. O. Box 2321 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11:28 AM Subject: Planar Nonexistence >Challenging myself to confirm Fuller's suggestions there are no "two >dimensional" "flat" planes in real life, I came up with this: the beam of >a light is crossed by the beam of another light, each a distinct color. >Where they cross a third color is produced. All this occurs in near >vacuum. Is the third color area a flat plane? > >-- > http://www.box2321.com/ > Nope no plane, Trevor. Because the beams have an origin where they sweep out a spherical wave. Even if you managed to create laser (coherent beams) the photons origin sweeps out a spherical wave. No matter how close you get to the origin the photon swepts out a spherical wave ergo no straight lines ergo no planes. I've played with built and designed lasers. Kept me busy and financial broke. hahaha. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:50:10 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Planar Nonexistence In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > Challenging myself to confirm Fuller's suggestions there are no "two > dimensional" "flat" planes in real life, I came up with this: the beam of > a light is crossed by the beam of another light, each a distinct color. > Where they cross a third color is produced. All this occurs in near > vacuum. Is the third color area a flat plane? > > -- > http://www.box2321.com/ > would't this bee a point .... especially if cconsider lasers ... scrathct that : even if it wwere lasers ball or point which in the real world has to be 3 dimensional Paul K ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:12:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Virtual memory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Jonathon, I might be having trouble with the swap files for virtual memory. I've noticed that when I'm running Pov Ray (rendering something) or when I've got a lot of stuff cached while doing web pages and my hard drive light goes on sometimes my computer crashes. I tried Norton Utilities and at first it seemed to clear up stuff but anymore Norton can't even keep itself from crashing hahahaha a crash program that crashes? I guess that makes sense. I get screen freeze but recently (With Norton increasing the efficientcy of Windows it skips screen freeze and just crashes into DOS and prompts me to strike any key to restart. Over and Over and Over again. At least the clock/calender doesn't say 1980 anymore. hahaha. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:50:23 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: A Machine for Living In Comments: To: Joe S Moore , lorlorance@aol.com In-Reply-To: <000001be5dd3$5a72ace0$8808fbcf@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lorlorance@aol.com [mailto:Lorlorance@aol.com] > > Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:22 PM > > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > > Cc: belt@Oswego.EDU > > Subject: (no subject) > > > > Hi, Joe. How are you? I am writing to you at the suggestion of John Belt. > > > > I've been trying to determine when Bucky first used the phrase > > "machine for living." I think it was with the Wichita House, but, can't > find > > it in my notes or any books. > > > > It's a strange detail, but, I'm working on my dissertation which > > will be full of strange details. According to "Le Corbusier" by Stephen Gardner, Le Corbusier first used the phrase "machine a' habiter" (a machine for living in) in reference to housing in 1920 in his magazine "L'Esprit Nouveau." As Joe Moore stated, Fuller never used this phrase. His biographers have, comparing Le Corbusier's aesthetic 'machine' to Fuller's actual machine(s). - Trevor Blake -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:37:41 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Zip files and programs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Netscape Communicator 4.5 for the Macintosh (the kind of computer Mark Somers should obviously be using) came with Stuffit Expander 4.5 which will not open Zip files, but, from this page ,you can download for free Stuffit Expander 5.1 which will open Zip files and just about everything else. http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/index.html Congratulations are in order for all your contributions, Mark. Now if I just had a digital copy of Cosmography, I could go to town... er, the Global Village. Mark Somers wrote: > > Spaceship Earth here's a link to > WinZip. Winzip is what I used to bundle > the zip file A Fuller Explanation. > > http://www.winzip.com/ > > I used their 'try out' program. I've gotten tired of > buying programs on CD. Windows sucks big ass > time there isn't enough room on this thread for me > to go on how much I think Windows sucks. > Suffice it to say if the software vendors of the world > want me to shell out another dime they had better > get microsoft to pull their heads out of their asses and > create a descent operating program. I don't make money on > the internet > and the riliability of Windows is so low that I dare not > even use > any programs especially book keeping and such on my > computer. > > Death to Microsoft.... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:06:33 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: A Fuller Ex.... zip <> Brian Hutchings 24-FEB-1999 3:06 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us sounds like the minimums for the disk (installation and swap files), not the RAM. I was just trying to install Linux (can't find a driver for for X-windows, for my graphix, which is *not* a card). thus quoth: I looked into installing Linux but I don't have enough RAM to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux. I've got 32 Megs of RAM and if I remember right to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux I need a minimum of 64 Megs of RAM. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:06:26 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lorlorance@AOL.COM Subject: (no subject) Comments: To: belt@Oswego.EDU, Joe S Moore Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_919908389_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_919908389_boundary Content-ID: <0_919908389@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I thought you all might like to see Ed Applewhite's response to my question. Loretta In a message dated 2/24/99 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ed Apple writes: << Dear L, I think TIME magazine may have used the phrase "machine for living" in a caption for a picture of a model of the hexagonal Dymaxion house on a mast. . . that's the context I seem to recall. I'll work on this--because it's an interesting phrase and an interesting point. (I had not been following the Geodesic List discussion.) Don't promise anything, but I'll try. Ed >> --part0_919908389_boundary Content-ID: <0_919908389@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: EdApple@aol.com Return-path: To: Lorlorance@aol.com Subject: Re: Fwd: (no subject) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:30:09 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear L, I think TIME magazine may have used the phrase "macine for living" in a caption for a picture of a model of the hexagonal Dymaxion house on a mast. . . that's the context I seem to recall. I'll work on this--because it's an interesting phrase and an interesting point. (I had not been following the Geodesic List discussion.) Don't promise anything, but I'll try. Ed --part0_919908389_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:55:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not think it ios that itnerewtintg. Lorlorance@AOL.COM wrote: > I thought you all might like to see Ed Applewhite's response to my question. > > Loretta > > In a message dated 2/24/99 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ed Apple writes: > > << Dear L, > > I think TIME magazine may have used the phrase "machine for living" in a > caption for a picture of a model of the hexagonal Dymaxion house on a > mast. . . that's the context I seem to recall. > > I'll work on this--because it's an interesting phrase and an interesting > point. (I had not been following the Geodesic List discussion.) > > Don't promise anything, but I'll try. > > Ed > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Fwd: (no subject) > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:30:09 EST > From: EdApple@aol.com > To: Lorlorance@aol.com > > Dear L, > > I think TIME magazine may have used the phrase "macine for living" in a > caption for a picture of a model of the hexagonal Dymaxion house on a > mast. . . that's the context I seem to recall. > > I'll work on this--because it's an interesting phrase and an interesting > point. (I had not been following the Geodesic List discussion.) > > Don't promise anything, but I'll try. > > Ed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:06:26 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Planar Nonexistence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you out there know how much a treasure bucky's dome home is! It is the monster reality of real architecture that is genius. How stupie can you be to not buy it from me for 100K. Fuck all of you I am keeping it. The only plane is the geodesic great circle that is formed with gravity in the precessional relationship of all being volumes that awareness allows. A plane is more alike than not. prkosuth wrote: > ---------- > > Challenging myself to confirm Fuller's suggestions there are no "two > > dimensional" "flat" planes in real life, I came up with this: the beam of > > a light is crossed by the beam of another light, each a distinct color. > > Where they cross a third color is produced. All this occurs in near > > vacuum. Is the third color area a flat plane? > > > > -- > > http://www.box2321.com/ > > > > would't this bee a point .... especially if cconsider lasers ... scrathct > that : even if it wwere lasers ball or point which in the real world has to > be 3 dimensional > > Paul K ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:50:07 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Planar Nonexistence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't have a cool 100K, or even close, or maybe I would try to buy it. If I thought Buckminster Fuller's dome home was essential to the achievement of his goal of life-support for all humanity maybe I would start a fundraiser to buy it. Buckminster Fuller's dome may be a treasure, but since it's not essential to that goal, I'll focus on more pressing matters. Take care of yourself. Don't get so emotional and angry. It weakens your immune system and makes you come down with the flu. If I owned Fuller's dome, I wouldn't sell it not even for a million bucks. In my life, I've found that adversities were an asset. I'm sure that you will too. "Michael S. Mitchell" wrote: > > Do you out there know how much a treasure bucky's dome home is! > It is the monster reality of real architecture that is genius. How stupie can > you be > to not buy it from me for 100K. F*#/ all of you I am keeping it.e ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:08:09 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Subject: The Simplex - Minimal Higher Dimensional Structures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE6074.742F91E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE6074.742F91E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A new paper explaining minimal n-dimensional structures is available at http://w3.one.net/~monkey/mathematics/simplex Enjoy - Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE6074.742F91E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A new paper explaining minimal = n-dimensional=20 structures is available at
 
    http://w3.one.net/= ~monkey/mathematics/simplex
 
Enjoy - Dave
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE6074.742F91E0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 03:52:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Re: A Fuller Ex.... zip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unky Brian, I think you're right (if you mean the the virtual memory space being around 64 megs?) That would make sense. I'll have to check out the Linux page again that's where I saw a chart of the minimums. Micheal, Trevor was talking about a plane in physical reality. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hutchings Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 4:07 AM Subject: Re: A Fuller Ex.... zip ><> Brian Hutchings 24-FEB-1999 3:06 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > sounds like the minimums for the disk (installation > and swap files), not the RAM. I was just trying > to install Linux (can't find a driver for for X-windows, > for my graphix, which is *not* a card). > > thus quoth: > I looked into installing Linux but I don't have enough > RAM to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux. I've got 32 Megs of RAM > and if I remember right to run Netscape 4.5 on Linux I need > a minimum of 64 Megs of RAM. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:08:25 -0500 Reply-To: macro@rosanna.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: James McCaig & Rosanna Martella Subject: Re: The Simplex - Minimal Higher Dimensional Structures In-Reply-To: <001401be609e$5dbe3b80$307932d1@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE609E.668DC960" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE609E.668DC960 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002C_01BE609E.668DC960" ------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BE609E.668DC960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks David, I KNEW there might be a good reason to stay on this list! It was a little over my head at first, but consulting with my dictionary and reading it a few times is clearing the fog a little. Warm regards, James James McCaig & Rosanna Martella ROSANNA'S FREE MACROBIOTIC NEWSLETTER http://www.rosanna.com mailto:macro@rosanna.com -----Original Message----- From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of David Anderson Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 4:08 AM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: The Simplex - Minimal Higher Dimensional Structures A new paper explaining minimal n-dimensional structures is available at http://w3.one.net/~monkey/mathematics/simplex Enjoy - Dave ------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BE609E.668DC960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks=20 David,
 
I KNEW=20 there might be a good reason to stay on this list!  It was a little = over my=20 head at first, but consulting with my dictionary and reading it a few = times is=20 clearing the fog a little.
 
Warm=20 regards,
 
James
 

James McCaig & Rosanna Martella =
ROSANNA'S FREE MACROBIOTIC NEWSLETTER
http://www.rosanna.com=20
mailto:macro@rosanna.com =

 
-----Original Message-----
From: List for the = discussion of=20 Buckminster Fuller's works = [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On=20 Behalf Of David Anderson
Sent: Thursday, February 25, = 1999=20 4:08 AM
To: = GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject:=20 The Simplex - Minimal Higher Dimensional = Structures

A new paper explaining minimal = n-dimensional=20 structures is available at
 
    http://w3.one.net/= ~monkey/mathematics/simplex
 
Enjoy - Dave
 
------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BE609E.668DC960-- ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE609E.668DC960 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="McCaig, James.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="McCaig, James.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:James;McCaig;; FN:McCaig, James ORG:Rosanna's Kitchen; TITLE:Partner TEL;WORK;VOICE:[001] 609-782-7310 TEL;WORK;FAX:[001] 609-782-7410 ADR;WORK:;;504 Beverly Circle South;Magnolia;New Jersey;08049;USA LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:504 Beverly Circle = South=3D0D=3D0AMagnolia, New Jersey 08049=3D0D=3D0AUSA URL: URL:http://www.rosanna.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:macro@rosanna.com REV:19980329T140840Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE609E.668DC960-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:55:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Planar Nonexistence Comments: To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please excuse me I had 4 beers and got out of hand. I am very sorry to get so emotional. PLEASE FORGIVE ME EVERYONE Michael S. Mitchell SpaceshipEarth.com wrote: > I don't have a cool 100K, or even close, or maybe I would try to buy it. If I thought > Buckminster Fuller's dome home was essential to the achievement of his goal of > life-support for all humanity maybe I would start a fundraiser to buy it. Buckminster > Fuller's dome may be a treasure, but since it's not essential to that goal, I'll focus on > more pressing matters. Take care of yourself. Don't get so emotional and angry. It > weakens your immune system and makes you come down with the flu. If I owned Fuller's > dome, I wouldn't sell it not even for a million bucks. In my life, I've found that > adversities were an asset. I'm sure that you will too. > > "Michael S. Mitchell" wrote: > > > > Do you out there know how much a treasure bucky's dome home is! > > It is the monster reality of real architecture that is genius. How stupie can > > you be > > to not buy it from me for 100K. F*#/ all of you I am keeping it.e ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:43:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: I Mac donation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spaceship, how about instead of a cool 100 grand you could donate a cool 4 or 5 grand to me so I can get a real computer? And a spell checking program for Unky Brian? Just think you'll be keeping us off the sreets!! hahahaha. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:12:19 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Curt Flowers Organization: University of Illinois Subject: Re: balsa wood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. I've made many, many models of "balsa" hobby wood. The poly is a good idea. Though I had little trouble with strength until the model fell or was badly handled.

Eric Nastav wrote:

  Has anyone ever used balsa wood to construct small scale geodesic
models?
  I'm think of making a geodesic structure out of balsa wood and maybe
putting some polyurethane on the balsa wood for a little more strength.

  Eric

========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:12:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: aracnet.com Subject: Re: Integrity of this list In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Michael Hissom wrote: > I am evidently completely off the mark here. I thought this list was to > discuss, promote, and put into use the technologies thought of by Buck > Misterfuller. So far It has been intellectual blathering about nearly > everything but. Since I am considering building a geodesic dome home and > greenhouse, silly me thought this was the perfect place to find out about such > things. Could someone send me some links that can give me information about > these technologies? Linkname: GEODESIC DOMES URL: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/dome.html This list (geodesic), like all open-ended conversations, has its ebbs and flows. Sometimes it's better than other times and it's always at least as good as what you personally add to the mix. And I think you mean Buckminster Fuller instead of "Buck Misterfuller." Good luck with the domes - the above URL will be very helpful. - Trevor -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:56:22 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: (no subject) Comments: To: Lorlorance@aol.com In-Reply-To: <11269a3.36d4b022@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Loretta, The 1-10-64 issue of TIME magazine has the phrase "machine-for-living" on page 48 (bottom of left hand column). Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Lorlorance@aol.com [mailto:Lorlorance@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 6:06 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU; belt@Oswego.EDU; Joe S Moore > Subject: (no subject) > > I thought you all might like to see Ed Applewhite's response to > my question. > > Loretta > > In a message dated 2/24/99 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ed > Apple writes: > > << Dear L, > > I think TIME magazine may have used the phrase "machine for > living" in a > caption for a picture of a model of the hexagonal Dymaxion house on a > mast. . . that's the context I seem to recall. > > I'll work on this--because it's an interesting phrase and an interesting > point. (I had not been following the Geodesic List discussion.) > > Don't promise anything, but I'll try. > > Ed > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:00:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Re: Integrity of this list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: P. O. Box 2321 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Integrity of this list >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Michael Hissom wrote: >> I am evidently completely off the mark here. I thought this list was to >> discuss, promote, and put into use the technologies thought of by Buck >> Misterfuller. So far It has been intellectual blathering about nearly >> everything but. Since I am considering building a geodesic dome home and >> greenhouse, silly me thought this was the perfect place to find out about >such >> things. Could someone send me some links that can give me information about >> these technologies? > > Linkname: GEODESIC DOMES > URL: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/dome.html > >This list (geodesic), like all open-ended conversations, has its ebbs and >flows. Sometimes it's better than other times and it's always at least as >good as what you personally add to the mix. > >And I think you mean Buckminster Fuller instead of "Buck Misterfuller." > >Good luck with the domes - the above URL will be very helpful. > >- Trevor > >-- > http://www.box2321.com/ > All you need do is ask Mr. Hissom, you silly sarcastic fucker you. This is a very diverse group here, which is quite apripo given that Mr Fuller was very diverse kinda guy. Personally I've been hoping to some day be able to get some land and build one of the domes these guys are selling. http://www.domehome.com/welcome.html I've always build all my polyhedral models out of poster board. Used poster paint on them for insince when I wanted to show the two tetrahedrons of a tetra star as in this computer rendering. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/150.html And this summer I'd like to get started on the construction of one of these sculptures in metal. I've always been intriqued by this moving sculpture. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/Photo11.1.html http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:19:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Polyhedron construction. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I forgot to add that I coat my polyhedron poster board models with polyurethane. Another educational experience is building close packing models out of styrofoam balls; holding them together with toothpicks and some white glue. I usually use 2 inch diameter balls. One of the things I found was that higher frequency icosahedron shells don't wrap around successive lower fequency icosahedral shells. Unlike successive frequency vector equilibrium shells that do wrap. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:33:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Subject: Re: Chilling Machines Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Mr. Knight, You were interested in the chilling machine dome that was made in Ghana. The contact for this as well as for Joe Moore to put into his archive as persons of interest is: Sam Spencer U.S.T. Ghana Kumasi, W. Africa This was his address when he was at the office in Carbondale in Oct., 1979. He gave me his address at that time and I have not heard from him since. He was the one that built the aluminum dome there with bucky. Try him on the net, he was always in the future and humming the tune of 2001. Sam is a very wonderful person and would love to hear from anyone regarding bucky. I hope he is well. Michael S. Mitchell I am still taking bids for the dome in Carbondale and have had a good response with well rounded bids so far. Goes to the highest bidder in 1 1/2 weeks. If anyone is interested in the Carbondale bucky ball let me know. 310 306-1913 Check out the site for the dome for sale to highest bidder. http://home.earthlink/~syntrivity/index.html I hear those wedding bells and must sell now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:37:20 GMT Reply-To: drandall@bit-net.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kristen Organization: Precious Roy Home Shopping Network Subject: Need home design prog. that handles domes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess the subject says it all: I'm looking for the names of home design programs that will allow me to design a geo. dome. I have enough skill pretty much to design a regular house, because of all the "build your own home" books I've read, but I'm having trouble with the domes trying to figure out the diameter of the second floor, ceiling clearances, etc. And I need a template for drawing elevations. Something that does a 3D walkthrough, too, would be great. Thanks, Kristen "The Frogurt is also cursed." You may need to replace "cannan.net" with "bit-net.com" to reply via email. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:40:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: ktp Subject: Re: Need home design prog. that handles domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am devloping a future Dome house for my family using 3D Home Architect Deluxe and Chief Architect, both dont like Domes but to work around this I sent e-mails to a number of Dome manufactures, and builders and got some simple free mailings from them, one of these mailings included a sheet with the measurements for their Domes from 22' to 60', measurements for each floor and wall. American Ingenuity, Inc 8777 Holiday Springs Road Rockledge, Florida 32955-5808 E-Mail: aidomes@iolinc.net or info@aidomes.com Web Site: http://www.aidomes.com Request a small info packet to include the "GEODESIC DOME BUILDING KIT PRICES" and "SPECIFICATIONS" sheet. I hope this helps, if not I guess I might be willing to type it out in Word format and post it, but I am limited in time. On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:37:20 GMT, drandall@cannan.net (Kristen) wrote: >I guess the subject says it all: I'm looking for the names of home >design programs that will allow me to design a geo. dome. I have >enough skill pretty much to design a regular house, because of all the >"build your own home" books I've read, but I'm having trouble with the >domes trying to figure out the diameter of the second floor, ceiling >clearances, etc. And I need a template for drawing elevations. >Something that does a 3D walkthrough, too, would be great. > >Thanks, > >Kristen > >"The Frogurt is also cursed." > >You may need to replace "cannan.net" with "bit-net.com" to reply via email. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:33:33 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Curt Flowers Organization: University of Illinois Subject: Re: Need home design prog. that handles domes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go here: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
This site has links to to many many places where you can get the information you need.
Click Links, then go to shelter, domes, general.

Good Luck.

Kristen wrote:

I guess the subject says it all: I'm looking for the names of home
design programs that will allow me to design a geo. dome.  I have
enough skill pretty much to design a regular house, because of all the
"build your own home" books I've read, but I'm having trouble with the
domes trying to figure out the diameter of the second floor, ceiling
clearances, etc.  And I need a template for drawing elevations.
Something that does a 3D walkthrough, too, would be great.

Thanks,

Kristen

"The Frogurt is also cursed."

You may need to replace "cannan.net" with "bit-net.com" to reply via email.

========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:08:33 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Dome Links (was Re: Integrity of this list) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also, the DomeHome mailing list and Dome Home Companion Web Site are highly recommended for help on all aspects of dome construction. http://www.seagull.net/rowley/DomeHome/index.html > Michael Hissom wrote: Since I am considering building a geodesic dome home and > > greenhouse, silly me thought this was the perfect place to find out about > such > > things. Could someone send me some links that can give me information about > > these technologies? > > Linkname: GEODESIC DOMES > URL: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/dome.html > > This list (geodesic), like all open-ended conversations, has its ebbs and > flows. Sometimes it's better than other times and it's always at least as > good as what you personally add to the mix. > > And I think you mean Buckminster Fuller instead of "Buck Misterfuller." > > Good luck with the domes - the above URL will be very helpful. > > - Trevor > > -- > http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:20:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Dome homes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spaceship, I checked out the link you posted about dome homesI and found this site on the link page. I like the idea of being able to get a shell higher than 3 frequency. These guys go up to 5 frequency, cooool. http://members.xoom.com/gkdomes/ Plus Timberline ( The dome home kit seller I posted a link to earlier goes only up to 45 feet in diameter). I want a big studio space as well as a home. P.S. I just checked out the Linux web site and decided I'd wait untill an Apple computer comes out with Linux pre installed, so you don't have to get my real computer for me yet. hahahahaha. But Unky Brian still could use a good spell checking program. http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:29:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Cosmography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spaceship I've got a scanner and a copy of Fuller's book, 'Cosmography'. You get permission to publish it on the internet and I'll help you. You'll also have to get server space because I'm running out of free server space that isn't cluttered with advertisement. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:05:55 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Polyhedron construction. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One has a center ball and the other does not. The IVE has the center ball right. The icosa does not. This is why if you are the center of the universe the universe is best explained as a IVE and not an ICOSA. Isotropic Vector Matrix is the same as a vector equilibrium. ICOSA is an icosa 20 faced equi faced surface compound curvature but not Isotropic like the radii of the IVE which allows it to fold into all basic shapes to make when spinning all the possible variations of close orbital compounding elements in my mind. If you look at spinning galaxies, you will see they look like a jitterbug half jittered and when spun by other axis in other shapes that it makes could easily make bucky balls in trace orbits or other molecular elemental substances that or 92 we know must be linked to one site or the IVE. IN my mind. Most people are paid to talk about so many things that make no sense, as well as plans to kill off whole countries this is not such a wild idea that the VE or IVE could do it all. The gravity force of earth allows the 92 elements to be designed to make compression members. This is not easy to do in other places in the surrounding volume of the solar system and beyond. Try and make a dome on Jupiter. Compression members are not able to be made on the sun for instance. They would all melt. gravity is a compression maker, and this is made from attraction caused by equal sweep outness of all mass to the speed of light. Light is not a compression member, it is a volume of speed of area sweep out of smaller volumes in motion. In my mind. Just thinking out e-mail. BYE I will take the first 70K for the Fuller home dome. It will pay for itself in 10 years with the rent alone. The value will be like as block busting as Vincent Van Gogh by then. This is the genuine home to the dome. Mayor Keene of Carbondale when bucky lived there, had Carbondale Home of the Geodesic Dome on his letter head as Mayor. He was ahead of his time like Delight Morris the president of SIU who allowed bucky to get where he was going with a big boost by giving him 12K per year to teach. Bucky lived 2 blocks from campus and would ride his Cushman motor scooter to class. He had one of those French cars with front wheel drive, Citroen or something like that. A sedan type. He sold it to dale Klaus who was head of the office in 1969. I wonder what happened to him. He and I designed the first world game poster in the basement of the Office of RBF. It had a picture of the world in the middle and at the top it said HOW? and at the bottom it stated WORLD GAME. Silk Screen. He liked my idea and made it with a girl that made it brown letters and white earth. I wanted red white and blue. She stated she used brown letters because it was earth tones. I wanted the HOW in red, and the world in white and the WORLD GAME in blue. I still think it would be best. It is in the archive. I donated my copy about 5 years ago. IIIII meme emememem. That is my little Bucky story for today. See Ya! Michael S. Mitchell Any body want to buy a Van Gogh home. OR roam home to the mother of all domes. Just give my a boat and hope it will float, Roam home to a boat, Di verse, yes that is the term to use. DIE VERSE We are all going to die-verse some day, I have not been drinking tonight so I will not curse so much. Thank you. Maybe it is the Icosa that has the center ball? I can't remember now, good night. Mark Somers wrote: > I forgot to add that I coat my polyhedron > poster board models with polyurethane. > > Another educational experience is building close > packing models out of styrofoam balls; holding them > together with toothpicks and some white glue. > I usually use 2 inch diameter balls. One of the things > I found was that higher frequency icosahedron > shells don't wrap around successive lower fequency > icosahedral shells. Unlike successive frequency vector > equilibrium shells that do wrap. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:56:22 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Get your copy of ANY 17 right here MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's the information on where to write to obtain a copy of the much tou= ted "ANY 17." (I can't find a website for it. I wonder if they've sold out?) This was foun= d on the BFI News page (http://www.bfi.org/news.htm) which contains reference to many = more books, articles and ongoing projects. =93ANY 17=94 issue on Buckminster Fuller, guest editor for issue, Reinhold Martin = =93ANY 17=94 issue on Buckminster Fuller, guest editor for issue=97Reinh= old Martin, ISBN 1068-4220. The name of the magazine in someway devives from its base in the architectual world of New York. This issue provides= a unique documentation of a current appreciation of Buckminster Fuller=92s= architectural legacy=97presented not only in its ecological and technolo= gical context, but through the prism of a young generation of contributors including architects, architectural historians, engineers, and PhD candidates. They bring enthusiasm as well as authority to their assessment. This publication deserves a wide circulation among people interested in Fuller=92s works. = Copies can be had by mail by personal checks (no credit cards) from Anyone Corp., 41 West 25th Street, 11th floor, NY, NY 10010. Because #17 is a back issue it costs $15.00 plus $1.24 postage and handling. Telephone 212 989-2221, fax 212 989-6630. ANY is distributed in the USA by B. DeBoer, 113 East Centre Street, Nutley, New Jersey 07110, telephone 201 667-9300 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:52:43 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jeff Mentuck Organization: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net) Subject: Amateur dome construction Hello all, I am new to this list as well as the whole dome concept. I'm interested in building a dome cabin type structure which would be a sort of four season camp. I would guess about 25 feet in diameter give or take. A do it myself project. Now I'm envisioning either 2 X 4 or 2 X 6 consruction and wonder if there is a company that perhaps makes hangers or brackets that one could bolt the lumber into to make construction simple for the arithmatically impaired. Any input or ideas would be appreciated. Jeff ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:59:26 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: IHETS Subject: balsa wood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Has anyone ever used balsa wood to construct small scale geodesic models? I'm think of making a geodesic structure out of balsa wood and maybe putting some polyurethane on the balsa wood for a little more strength. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:35:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Subject: Bucky and Anne's original dome home to highest bidder ? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 At this time I have 66K as a bid. Any bids over this for Bucky and Anne's dome in Carbondale Illinois. It collects rent of 7200 a year which is equal to 100K in the bank. If you would like to own a Frank Lloyd Wright but a little more modern for the price of a new Mercedes contact me now. The taxes are 1400 per year and it needs very little care to keep in fit shape. I have rented it for 27 years without any problem being 2000 miles away. I am interested in getting married and cashing out. It can be disassembled as well as made into a park there with a new shell that I am told by the city would still be considered dedicatable as his property and historical as a site for a tax deduction. All offers due in 2 weeks. Thank you, Michael S. Mitchell, owner out right at this time. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:37:48 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: aracnet.com Subject: Re: Bucky's map In-Reply-To: <000101be5c5a$e9c0eee0$a608fbcf@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Joe S Moore wrote: > It is my understanding that the Buckminster Fuller ESTATE > mailto:EstateBF@aol.com )owns all of Bucky's copyrights. Jaime Snyder is > the executor of the estate. Allegra Snyder owns personally the BF Archives. > BTW, which version of the map? There were several, each copyrighted > separately. > See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFDrawings.htm My 1992 "Fuller Projection Dymaxion[tm] Air-Ocean World" map (published by the BFI) states "The word Dymaxion and the Dymaxion map design are trademarks of the Buckminster Fuller Institute (C) 1938, 1967, 1980 & 1992 Buckminster Fuller Institue. All rights reserved." It also directs inquiries to the BFI. I have heard (no documentation comes to mind) that the World Game Institute also has special access to this map as a promotional tool for World Game. - Trevor -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:43:53 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jackie Craven Subject: Chat about domes, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Mining Company has opened a new chat room for architects and architecture enthusiasts. This week, Tuesday, Feb 23, 8 pm Eastern Standard Time, a lively & very informal discussion of unusual buildings... and any other topic related to architecture. http://architecture.miningco.com/mpchat.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Amateur dome construction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message text written by "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" >I am new to this list as well as the whole dome concept. I'm interested= in building a dome cabin type structure which would be a sort of four season= camp. I would guess about 25 feet in diameter give or take. A do it myself project. Now I'm envisioning either 2 X 4 or 2 X 6 consruction an= d wonder if there is a company that perhaps makes hangers or brackets that one could bolt the lumber into to make construction simple for the arithmatically impaired. Any input or ideas would be appreciated.< I have step by step photos of the fabrication and erection of a 24' diameter 2x4 paneled dome on one of my WEB sites. I also have printe= d plans for the fabrication and erection process that are currently available. I intend to upload them in the form of share wqre in the near= future. Although I presently have a slide view presentation of the fabrication and erection available, I plan to do a video version this yea= r. This is a simple design using only 2 different panel sizes and using simple miter cuts. URL: http://members.aol.com/dometruss/page/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:42:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Subject: Bucky and Anne's dome for sale. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Selling to the highest bidder the first 39 1/2 foot 5/8's geodesic dome home of the inventor R. Buckminster Fuller and his wife Anne Hewlett Fuller built 1959 in Carbondale Illinois, requested on the historical registry but not yet allow to be so as to make the taxes as low as possible. Appraisal historical value is around 500K to one million. My highest bid so far is 66K and a few possible 100K lurking. If anyone wants to make a closed bid on this property please send me an e-mail or phone 310 306-1913. It is the only dome and only home that Fuller ever owned. He lived here till 1972. I am the second and only other owner. It is rented for 7200 per year. Taxes are 1400 per year. Available June 1st to move in or rent out as usual. He was interviewed by walter Kronkite in the dome and wrote most his books and wrote the song roam home to a dome about this dome. This little dome was very much a part of he and Anne's life in the best time of their life in many respects. see site. http://homeearthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html Thank you for your time. Michael S. Mitchell I am selling to use the money and get married. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:14:54 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brian A.Stuckless" Organization: SOMAE RESEARCH Subject: Integrated Standards ( IS ) Hi, Please consider the following prepared statement... an essay of 'substance' you might say. Integrated Standards ( IS ) In the current Standard International ( SI ) system of units there are Na. unspecified sub-unit molar particles per general mole , and by SI definition that number( Avogadro s Number ) is strictly conserved and must be an integer. The unspecified sub-unit molar particle can be a atom, a volume, a molecule,a unit of charge, a unit of angular momentum, a photon, etc.,...or......a bit unit. Now, the number of bits per byte is also not a strictly conserved quantity( usually just eight ), and likewise must always be an integer. Therefore, Na. bits is a molar-byte of information storage. It doesn t matter if that mole is a mole of binary digits stored in a computer, a mole of platinum mass stored in a vault in Paris, or even if it s a mole of alphabet stored in ink at the local library,... all three are examples of arbitrarily assigned amounts of substance . What matters is which digit ,... the weight or some other condition of the mass,... and the Word . At the very least, a unit of information storage is a state constructed of those molar particles and activated by a molar particle... preferably a photon. A bit may be a unit of information storage , a bandwidth second , or baudot second in particular, but in general, it s a perceptron ... and a perceptron is the most basic fundamental unit of understanding . The SI system is conceptually the most profound to date but it is not a fully integrated system, and according to Einstein, the final system will have no fundamental arbitrary constants. Certainly only subtle variations of perception and slight adjustments of some standard definitions are required to effect the necessary mathematical coherance to that end. SI is the formworks of the Integrated Standards ( IS ) system with the most incomplete section on Avogadro s section ... but it ll soon be finished... Archimedes is back in his tub. I digress. Is that two-bits' worth? Sincerely, -- bastuckless@avalon.nf.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:54:31 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: Need home design prog. that handles domes Comments: To: drandall@bit-net.com In-Reply-To: <36cb274b.594056@news2.bit-net.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Kristen wrote: > I guess the subject says it all: I'm looking for the names of home > design programs that will allow me to design a geo. dome. I have > enough skill pretty much to design a regular house, because of all the > "build your own home" books I've read, but I'm having trouble with the > domes trying to figure out the diameter of the second floor, ceiling > clearances, etc. And I need a template for drawing elevations. > Something that does a 3D walkthrough, too, would be great. http://www.domes.com/ -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:59:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Amateur dome construction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9945A7DBDD56341A6707E79E" --------------9945A7DBDD56341A6707E79E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you build a dome at all out of wood it makes more sense to make it 39 1/2 feet in diameter. This allows you to cut 60 4 X 8 sheets of plywood in a diagonal and make one triangle for each sheet using the wood in a dymaxion way as my dome which is Fuller's real home and the only dome he ever owned. This is doing more with less. Three people can erect it in one day when it is cut. It is the Pease dome design that Bucky collaborated on to make his own home. It allows a second floor loft for with a stairs going straight out the center to the second floor with half on one side of the loft and half on the other. Makes as if two bed rooms for the second floor. Use hot water slab heat in the slab with pipes and a pump from a water heater that heats the floor and you have three sliding glass doors and one window unit and a front door insert, with two baths, and kitchen and free standing ceiling high living room like my dome ( bucky and anne's inwhich is for sale now to the highest bidder ). http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html I will take 70 K cash monday if anyone wants to buy it flat out, unless someone wants to go higher. It will pay it's self off in 10 years with the rent at this price. A good investment as well as the greatest designed and economical way to make space to live in a machine, it has an enclosed yard with a fence that was invented by bucky only one in the world. Lets air through and cannot be seen through. There is a fountain in the back yard that he loved very much and it is very serene. This is the best design for the money and material. The design of the floor plan is in John McHale's book that is out of print as it is there was. I would not use a riser for they end out being squares that the dome lands on and the weight with out triangles makes them rot and collapse. Like the synergy dome in carbondale did. If the riser is concrete then it will work, with a thick wall like a basement in the dirt. If you get the video of Thinking out loud, it has bucky and anne's dome being built in it. Get it at the BFI. Bye. A 25 footer is more trouble than a 39,1/2 footer from my view. You may use 1" by 1" frames in a T like shape to hold the triangles with the center angle cut on the outside edge. You can build this for about 7K in material for the shell alone if you buy it made. The dome in Carbondale may have the shell removed and another put over it new and have the dome of Fuller's for going on tour around the world and put back in another time. The city will take the new dome as historical if you wish to donate it with the old dome being used to tour. They will give you the same amount for donation off your taxes or you can rent it. What a deal, two homes in one. Sell two domes for the price of one. 70K walks with the greatest dome in history, the inventors original invention. Jeff Mentuck wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to this list as well as the whole dome concept. I'm interested in > building a dome cabin type structure which would be a sort of four season > camp. I would guess about 25 feet in diameter give or take. A do it > myself project. Now I'm envisioning either 2 X 4 or 2 X 6 consruction and > wonder if there is a company that perhaps makes hangers or brackets that > one could bolt the lumber into to make construction simple for the > arithmatically impaired. Any input or ideas would be appreciated. > > Jeff --------------9945A7DBDD56341A6707E79E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you build a dome at all out of wood it makes more sense to make it
39 1/2 feet in diameter.  This allows you to cut 60 4 X 8 sheets of
plywood in a diagonal and make one triangle for each sheet using
the wood in a dymaxion way as my dome which is Fuller's real
home and the only dome he ever owned.  This is doing more with
less.  Three people can erect it in one day when it is cut.  It is the
Pease dome design that Bucky collaborated on to make his own
home.  It allows a second floor loft for with a stairs going straight
out the center to the second floor with half on one side of the loft
and half on the other.  Makes as if two bed rooms for the second
floor.  Use hot water slab heat in the slab with pipes and a pump
from a water heater that heats the floor and you have three
sliding glass doors and one window unit and a front door
insert, with two baths, and kitchen and free standing ceiling
high living room like my dome ( bucky and anne's inwhich is
for sale now to the highest bidder ).

http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html
I will take 70 K cash monday if anyone wants to buy it flat
out, unless someone wants to go higher.
It will pay it's self off in 10 years with the rent at this
price.  A good investment as well as the greatest
designed and economical way to make space
to live in a machine, it has an enclosed yard with
a fence that was invented by bucky only one in the
world.  Lets air through and cannot be seen through.
There is a fountain in the back yard that he loved very
much and it is very serene. This is the best design for
the money and material.  The design of the floor plan is
in John McHale's book that is out of print as it is there
was.  I would not use a riser for they end out being squares
that the dome lands on and the weight with out triangles
makes them rot and collapse. Like the synergy dome in
carbondale did. If the riser is concrete then it will work,
with a thick wall like a basement in the dirt.  If you
get the video of  Thinking out loud, it has bucky and anne's
dome being built in it.  Get it at the BFI. Bye.
A 25 footer is more trouble than a 39,1/2 footer from
my view.  You may use 1" by 1" frames in a T like shape
to hold the triangles with the center angle cut on the outside
edge.  You can build this for about 7K in material for the
shell alone if you buy it made.  The dome in
Carbondale may have the shell removed and another put
over it new and have the dome of Fuller's for going on tour
around the world and put back in another time.  The city
will take the new dome as historical if you wish to donate
it with the old dome being used to tour.  They will give you
the same amount for donation off your taxes or you can rent
it.  What a deal, two homes in one.  Sell two domes for the
price of one. 70K walks with the greatest dome in history,
the inventors original invention.

Jeff Mentuck wrote:

Hello all,

I am new to this list as well as the whole dome concept.  I'm interested in
building a dome cabin type structure which would be a sort of four season
camp.  I would guess about 25 feet in diameter give or take.  A do it
myself project.  Now I'm envisioning either 2 X 4 or 2 X 6 consruction and
wonder if there is a company that perhaps makes hangers or brackets that
one could bolt the lumber into to make construction simple for the
arithmatically impaired.  Any input or ideas would be appreciated.

Jeff

  --------------9945A7DBDD56341A6707E79E-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:42:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles J Knight Subject: Re: Chilling Machines >Mr. Knight, Goodness...the formality. Please, Mr Mitchell, call me Chuck. >You were interested in the chilling machine dome that was >made in Ghana. Yep...definitely interested in the specifics. >The contact for this as well as for Joe Moore to put into his >archive as persons of interest is: >Sam Spencer >U.S.T. >Ghana >Kumasi, W. Africa Thank you! I'm still recovering from a total repartitioning and reformat of my hard drive (my "complete" backup turned out to be less than complete...lost all my email archives from the last year...right up through Joe Moore's list of architectural consultants.) Joe Moore...would you please send me a copy of your previous email? I know it's probably in the archives, but I'm still setting up my net account, again. (I lost a LOT) -- Chuck Knigth ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:38:04 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Randy Hensley Subject: Re: Amateur dome construction Hi Jeff , Take a look at www.domehome.com I personally am wanting to build a monolithic dome. You can see these at www.monolithicdome.com C-ya later, Randy Jeff Mentuck wrote in message <01be60e7$2bb2c2c0$3aa9c0d1@jeff>... >Hello all, > >I am new to this list as well as the whole dome concept. I'm interested in >building a dome cabin type structure which would be a sort of four season >camp. I would guess about 25 feet in diameter give or take. A do it >myself project. Now I'm envisioning either 2 X 4 or 2 X 6 consruction and >wonder if there is a company that perhaps makes hangers or brackets that >one could bolt the lumber into to make construction simple for the >arithmatically impaired. Any input or ideas would be appreciated. > >Jeff > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:27:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Integrated Standards ( IS ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Brian A.Stuckless wrote: > A bit may be a unit of information storage , >a bandwidth second , or baudot second in particular, >but in general, it s a perceptron ... and a perceptron >is the most basic fundamental unit of understanding . What is a perceptron? Have you just "invented" it? Paul Taylor Paul Taylor The Blowpipes www.trombone.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:59:43 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Cosmography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can do better than have me ask permission from the EBF (mailto:EstateBF@aol.com). Better get someone that's an insider, ask them yourself, or ask Amy to ask them for you. You've got a proven track record. You've got one feather in your hat. Keep going and you'll have a full headdress. We'll find server space. That's not a problem. BFI will probably provide that. I think that Buckminster Fuller's books and papers compiled onto a CD would sell well from the internet. Mark Somers wrote: > > Spaceship > > I've got a scanner and a copy of Fuller's book, > 'Cosmography'. > You get permission to publish it on the internet > and I'll help you. You'll also have to get server space > because I'm running out of free server space > that isn't cluttered with advertisement. > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:24:46 -0800 Reply-To: oregon@domes.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome Subject: Re: Amateur dome construction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all: I don't think that it makes sense to build a dome with 1,100 square feet in the footprint when one only wants 400 square feet. The 39' dome may make economical use of the plywood, but there is sure a lot more going into the dome than plywood. As for a few other statements, I'd like to add my own views, which are not necessarily representative of the whole dome industry, but do come from years spent building domes. To begin, the Pease edge-cut method of construction is no longer used in panel building. The face-cut method, developed by our own Roger Boothe, is a much simpler way of building, dramatically redusing the number of angles cut to build a panel. On radiant heat, this is an excellent system to use, if you have the dollars to put out for it. In the '70's and '80's, radiant heat was cheap, now this is not the case. It is substantially more expensive than forced-air heat and if this is going to be a cabin in the woods, I'd recommend looking at resistance air heat. It is inexpensive, highly efficient, and more appropriate for a home that is used only periodically through the year. For riser walls, I'd recommend at least a minimal riser wall in a 39' dome such as recommended here. This allows you to slope your canopies, eliminating the problems that flat canopies gave domes for years (flat roofs leak). You do not need to build a riser wall out of concrete. I don't know where the comment about wood riser walls rotting away comes from, but domes have been built with wood riser walls for well over 30 years, with no significant problems with rotting. It is true that riser walls are less strong than the overall structure, but built properly using shear panels, there is no reason to expect that they are going to ever fail you. On a 25' dome, the need for riser walls really depends on the design of the dome. I don't personally know how to build that size of dome without risers, but I come from the building end of the business, not design. I'm sure that there is someone out there who could design such a dome. Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > If you build a dome at all out of wood it makes more sense to make it > 39 1/2 feet in diameter. This allows you to cut 60 4 X 8 sheets of > plywood in a diagonal and make one triangle for each sheet using > the wood in a dymaxion way as my dome which is Fuller's real > home and the only dome he ever owned. This is doing more with > less. Three people can erect it in one day when it is cut. It is the > > Pease dome design that Bucky collaborated on to make his own > home. It allows a second floor loft for with a stairs going straight > out the center to the second floor with half on one side of the loft > and half on the other. Makes as if two bed rooms for the second > floor. Use hot water slab heat in the slab with pipes and a pump > from a water heater that heats the floor and you have three > sliding glass doors and one window unit and a front door > insert, with two baths, and kitchen and free standing ceiling > high living room like my dome ( bucky and anne's inwhich is > for sale now to the highest bidder ). > > http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html > I will take 70 K cash monday if anyone wants to buy it flat > out, unless someone wants to go higher. > It will pay it's self off in 10 years with the rent at this > price. A good investment as well as the greatest > designed and economical way to make space > to live in a machine, it has an enclosed yard with > a fence that was invented by bucky only one in the > world. Lets air through and cannot be seen through. > There is a fountain in the back yard that he loved very > much and it is very serene. This is the best design for > the money and material. The design of the floor plan is > in John McHale's book that is out of print as it is there > was. I would not use a riser for they end out being squares > that the dome lands on and the weight with out triangles > makes them rot and collapse. Like the synergy dome in > carbondale did. If the riser is concrete then it will work, > with a thick wall like a basement in the dirt. If you > get the video of Thinking out loud, it has bucky and anne's > dome being built in it. Get it at the BFI. Bye. > A 25 footer is more trouble than a 39,1/2 footer from > my view. You may use 1" by 1" frames in a T like shape > to hold the triangles with the center angle cut on the outside > edge. You can build this for about 7K in material for the > shell alone if you buy it made. The dome in > Carbondale may have the shell removed and another put > over it new and have the dome of Fuller's for going on tour > around the world and put back in another time. The city > will take the new dome as historical if you wish to donate > it with the old dome being used to tour. They will give you > the same amount for donation off your taxes or you can rent > it. What a deal, two homes in one. Sell two domes for the > price of one. 70K walks with the greatest dome in history, > the inventors original invention. > > Jeff Mentuck wrote: > > Hello all, > > I am new to this list as well as the whole dome concept. > I'm interested in > building a dome cabin type structure which would be a sort > of four season > camp. I would guess about 25 feet in diameter give or > take. A do it > myself project. Now I'm envisioning either 2 X 4 or 2 X 6 > consruction and > wonder if there is a company that perhaps makes hangers or > brackets that > one could bolt the lumber into to make construction simple > for the > arithmatically impaired. Any input or ideas would be > appreciated. > > Jeff > > -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 or (541) 689-3443 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:59:43 -0800 Reply-To: oregon@domes.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome Subject: Re: Bucky and Anne's dome for sale. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe that the dome is actually a 3/8 sphere. Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > Selling to the highest bidder the first 39 1/2 foot 5/8's geodesic dome > home of the inventor R. Buckminster Fuller and his wife Anne Hewlett > Fuller built 1959 in Carbondale Illinois, requested on the historical > registry but not yet allow to be so as to make the taxes as low as > possible. Appraisal historical value is around 500K to one million. > My highest bid so far is 66K and a few possible 100K lurking. > If anyone wants to make a closed bid on this property please > send me an e-mail or phone 310 306-1913. > It is the only dome and only home that Fuller ever owned. > He lived here till 1972. I am the second and only other owner. > It is rented for 7200 per year. Taxes are 1400 per year. > Available June 1st to move in or rent out as usual. > He was interviewed by walter Kronkite in the dome > and wrote most his books and wrote the song > roam home to a dome about this dome. > This little dome was very much a part of he and Anne's life > in the best time of their life in many respects. > see site. > http://homeearthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html > > Thank you for your time. > Michael S. Mitchell > I am selling to use the money and get married. -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 or (541) 689-3443 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:52:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Bucky and Anne's dome for sale. Comments: To: oregon@domes.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your right I am thinking of the 1967 dome when he lived in the 3/8's he built the greatest 5/8's. I would always talk about the dome in canada to people over the years and it slipped out. I was just spit it out. Sorry a little. Michael S. Mitchell http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html I seem to have a 70K offer and I am going to take it if no one else out there wants to bid more. I now have it rented for 4 years as well if i want to a builder and his wife who will take care and remodel it as well for 2 months rent free for the summer. It is all working out for all. If there is a synergetic buyer who would like to offer more let me know now! MSM Oregon Dome wrote: > I believe that the dome is actually a 3/8 sphere. > > Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > > > Selling to the highest bidder the first 39 1/2 foot 5/8's geodesic dome > > home of the inventor R. Buckminster Fuller and his wife Anne Hewlett > > Fuller built 1959 in Carbondale Illinois, requested on the historical > > registry but not yet allow to be so as to make the taxes as low as > > possible. Appraisal historical value is around 500K to one million. > > My highest bid so far is 66K and a few possible 100K lurking. > > If anyone wants to make a closed bid on this property please > > send me an e-mail or phone 310 306-1913. > > It is the only dome and only home that Fuller ever owned. > > He lived here till 1972. I am the second and only other owner. > > It is rented for 7200 per year. Taxes are 1400 per year. > > Available June 1st to move in or rent out as usual. > > He was interviewed by walter Kronkite in the dome > > and wrote most his books and wrote the song > > roam home to a dome about this dome. > > This little dome was very much a part of he and Anne's life > > in the best time of their life in many respects. > > see site. > > http://homeearthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html > > > > Thank you for your time. > > Michael S. Mitchell > > I am selling to use the money and get married. > > -- > Thanks, > > Nathan Burke, > Oregon Dome, Inc. > > E-mail: oregon@domes.com > Web: http://www.domes.com > Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 > Fax: (541) 689-9275 > Phone: (800) 572-8943 or (541) 689-3443 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:57:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Cosmography Comments: To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a great idea, to put this book on the net. It was his lecture that he did all over the world siffted and siffted to perfection. I would sit in all his lectures for 16 years recording them and this book when I read it I said, this is the lecture. I think so anyway. Or I did 16 years ago when I read it I have not read it in a long time. SSE, please be notified that I have sent you my only tape of the world man band and I want you to make a copy and send it back. This is the only way I do not have the time to do it myself. Please send it back I sent it today Saturday. Just copy it and send it back, thanks! SpaceshipEarth.com wrote: > You can do better than have me ask permission from the EBF (mailto:EstateBF@aol.com). > Better get someone > that's an insider, ask them yourself, or ask Amy to ask them for you. You've got a proven track > record. You've got one feather in your hat. Keep going and you'll have a full > headdress. We'll find server space. That's not a > problem. BFI will probably provide that. > > I think that Buckminster Fuller's books and papers compiled onto a CD would sell well from > the internet. > > Mark Somers wrote: > > > > Spaceship > > > > I've got a scanner and a copy of Fuller's book, > > 'Cosmography'. > > You get permission to publish it on the internet > > and I'll help you. You'll also have to get server space > > because I'm running out of free server space > > that isn't cluttered with advertisement. > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:59:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Cosmography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great idea, kid. Mark Somers wrote: > Spaceship > > I've got a scanner and a copy of Fuller's book, > 'Cosmography'. > You get permission to publish it on the internet > and I'll help you. You'll also have to get server space > because I'm running out of free server space > that isn't cluttered with advertisement. > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:59:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Bucky's map MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bucky's map sucks with wind. P. O. Box 2321 wrote: > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Joe S Moore wrote: > > It is my understanding that the Buckminster Fuller ESTATE > > mailto:EstateBF@aol.com )owns all of Bucky's copyrights. Jaime Snyder is > > the executor of the estate. Allegra Snyder owns personally the BF Archives. > > BTW, which version of the map? There were several, each copyrighted > > separately. > > See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFDrawings.htm > > My 1992 "Fuller Projection Dymaxion[tm] Air-Ocean World" map (published by > the BFI) states "The word Dymaxion and the Dymaxion map design are > trademarks of the Buckminster Fuller Institute (C) 1938, 1967, 1980 & 1992 > Buckminster Fuller Institue. All rights reserved." It also directs > inquiries to the BFI. > > I have heard (no documentation comes to mind) that the World Game > Institute also has special access to this map as a promotional tool for > World Game. > > - Trevor > > -- > http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:01:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Chilling Machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, fuk chuck how are ya! Charles J Knight wrote: > >Mr. Knight, > > Goodness...the formality. Please, Mr Mitchell, call me Chuck. > > >You were interested in the chilling machine dome that was > >made in Ghana. > > Yep...definitely interested in the specifics. > > >The contact for this as well as for Joe Moore to put into his > >archive as persons of interest is: > >Sam Spencer > >U.S.T. > >Ghana > >Kumasi, W. Africa > > Thank you! I'm still recovering from a total repartitioning and > reformat of my hard drive (my "complete" backup turned out to > be less than complete...lost all my email archives from the last > year...right up through Joe Moore's list of architectural > consultants.) > > Joe Moore...would you please send me a copy of your previous > email? I know it's probably in the archives, but I'm still setting up > my net account, again. (I lost a LOT) > > -- Chuck Knigth ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:08:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: A 10 gallon cowboy hat plane. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some where someone was talking about where is a plane like in flat and area driven great circle in the universe. The brim of a 10 gallon hat is one. A great circle that goes through the middle of your head at 90 degrees. This is the key to the understanding the universe. For all bodies are at 90 degrees in precession by gravity area sweep out in a plane that has the flatest possible and skinniest possible center of gravity plane that is invisible. So the only planes in the universe are 10 gallon hats and gravity planes of precession that go in your head and out to all possible volumes of hats to wear, and all out side the hat and inside the hat. What I am really trying to say iS: All volumes are great circle planes in space that are formed with areas that do not exsist that go throught the sun of all events in time and space. Really! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:24:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Amateur dome construction Comments: To: oregon@domes.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with all you say to some degree. Most every thing yes. I agree with everything you say, yes. To some degree. Oregon Dome wrote: > To all: > > I don't think that it makes sense to build a dome with 1,100 square feet > in the footprint when one only wants 400 square feet. The 39' dome may > make economical use of the plywood, but there is sure a lot more going > into the dome than plywood. > > As for a few other statements, I'd like to add my own views, which are > not necessarily representative of the whole dome industry, but do come > from years spent building domes. > > To begin, the Pease edge-cut method of construction is no longer used in > panel building. The face-cut method, developed by our own Roger Boothe, > is a much simpler way of building, dramatically redusing the number of > angles cut to build a panel. What is this method? HOw is it different? > > > On radiant heat, this is an excellent system to use, if you have the > dollars to put out for it. In the '70's and '80's, radiant heat was > cheap, now this is not the case. It is substantially more expensive > than forced-air heat and if this is going to be a cabin in the woods, > I'd recommend looking at resistance air heat. It is inexpensive, highly > efficient, and more appropriate for a home that is used only > periodically through the year. > This old house had a new plastic pipe that just curled all over thefloor area and was cheap. I just replaced my heat pump by Mr. and Mrs William's in Carbondale HE is the best in this and cheap. His number is 618 - 457-7422 Ava is his wife. It cost me 278 dollars for the pump. The last one went 22 years before it needed to be replaced. IF you are just laying the plastic pipe in the floor and pouring concrete over it and hooking it to the pump, I do not see the cost factor being very high. If it is copper maybe, but this old house had this new stuff that worked cheap. > For riser walls, I'd recommend at least a minimal riser wall in a 39' > dome such as recommended here. This allows you to slope your canopies, > eliminating the problems that flat canopies gave domes for years (flat > roofs leak). You do not need to build a riser wall out of concrete. I > don't know where the comment about wood riser walls rotting away comes > from, but domes have been built with wood riser walls for well over 30 > years, with no significant problems with rotting. > There was another dome in Carbondale that hada 2 foot riser that was sort of weak and it collapsed inward do to this. It may have had a little rot in it if I recall. > It is true that riser walls are less strong than the overall structure, > but built properly using shear panels, there is no reason to expect that > they are going to ever fail you. > > On a 25' dome, the need for riser walls really depends on the design of > the dome. I don't personally know how to build that size of dome > without risers, but I come from the building end of the business, not > design. I'm sure that there is someone out there who could design such > a dome. > > Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > > > If you build a dome at all out of wood it makes more sense to make it > > 39 1/2 feet in diameter. This allows you to cut 60 4 X 8 sheets of > > plywood in a diagonal and make one triangle for each sheet using > > the wood in a dymaxion way as my dome which is Fuller's real > > home and the only dome he ever owned. This is doing more with > > less. Three people can erect it in one day when it is cut. It is the > > > > Pease dome design that Bucky collaborated on to make his own > > home. It allows a second floor loft for with a stairs going straight > > out the center to the second floor with half on one side of the loft > > and half on the other. Makes as if two bed rooms for the second > > floor. Use hot water slab heat in the slab with pipes and a pump > > from a water heater that heats the floor and you have three > > sliding glass doors and one window unit and a front door > > insert, with two baths, and kitchen and free standing ceiling > > high living room like my dome ( bucky and anne's inwhich is > > for sale now to the highest bidder ). > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html > > I will take 70 K cash monday if anyone wants to buy it flat > > out, unless someone wants to go higher. > > It will pay it's self off in 10 years with the rent at this > > price. A good investment as well as the greatest > > designed and economical way to make space > > to live in a machine, it has an enclosed yard with > > a fence that was invented by bucky only one in the > > world. Lets air through and cannot be seen through. > > There is a fountain in the back yard that he loved very > > much and it is very serene. This is the best design for > > the money and material. The design of the floor plan is > > in John McHale's book that is out of print as it is there > > was. I would not use a riser for they end out being squares > > that the dome lands on and the weight with out triangles > > makes them rot and collapse. Like the synergy dome in > > carbondale did. If the riser is concrete then it will work, > > with a thick wall like a basement in the dirt. If you > > get the video of Thinking out loud, it has bucky and anne's > > dome being built in it. Get it at the BFI. Bye. > > A 25 footer is more trouble than a 39,1/2 footer from > > my view. You may use 1" by 1" frames in a T like shape > > to hold the triangles with the center angle cut on the outside > > edge. You can build this for about 7K in material for the > > shell alone if you buy it made. The dome in > > Carbondale may have the shell removed and another put > > over it new and have the dome of Fuller's for going on tour > > around the world and put back in another time. The city > > will take the new dome as historical if you wish to donate > > it with the old dome being used to tour. They will give you > > the same amount for donation off your taxes or you can rent > > it. What a deal, two homes in one. Sell two domes for the > > price of one. 70K walks with the greatest dome in history, > > the inventors original invention. > > > > Jeff Mentuck wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > I am new to this list as well as the whole dome concept. > > I'm interested in > > building a dome cabin type structure which would be a sort > > of four season > > camp. I would guess about 25 feet in diameter give or > > take. A do it > > myself project. Now I'm envisioning either 2 X 4 or 2 X 6 > > consruction and > > wonder if there is a company that perhaps makes hangers or > > brackets that > > one could bolt the lumber into to make construction simple > > for the > > arithmatically impaired. Any input or ideas would be > > appreciated. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > -- > Thanks, > > Nathan Burke, > Oregon Dome, Inc. > > E-mail: oregon@domes.com > Web: http://www.domes.com > Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 > Fax: (541) 689-9275 > Phone: (800) 572-8943 or (541) 689-3443 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:32:50 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Re: Amateur dome construction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message text written by "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" >This old house had a new plastic pipe that just curled all over thefloor= area and was cheap. I just replaced my heat pump by Mr. and Mrs William's in Carbondale HE is the best in this and cheap. His number is 618 - 457-7422 Ava is his wife. It cost me 278 dollars for the pump. The last one went 22 years before it needed to be replaced. IF you are just laying the plastic pipe in the floor and pouring concrete over it and hooking it to the pump, I do not see the cost factor being very high. If it is copper maybe, but this old house had this new stuff that worked cheap.< "This Old House Kitchens" by Steve Thomas and Philip Langdon has som= e nice information about radiant floor systems. It points out that a coppe= r and concrete mix is a recipe for a degradable system, but the cheap cross-linked polyethylene pipe- concrete combination makes a nice system.= = It also points out that one of the reasons for high cost is that few U.S.= plumbers are qualified to install the system. 90% of European systems a= re hydronic while only 10% of United States sytems are hydronic. I installed the basics of my system for almost nothing. The local insulating manufacturer sells the bug treated underslab polystyrene board= insulation, direct, for about $250/ 1000 s.f. The tubing cost me less th= an $100. I simply taped the tubing, in a circular draining pattern, to my slab reinforcement and then poured conventional concrete. I have a salvaged low flow, low voltage pump that cost me around $45 from a solar contractor. I also have a salvaged hot water solar collector which cost = me around $100. It did need major repair, but the material cost for the repair was for a couple of fittings and some soldier. In standard use cases, a simple or compound hot water heater is all that is needed for th= e source of heat. A simple hot water heater can be bought for around $140 = in my area. A computer is generally used for the temperature control, but all that is really necessary is a simple thermostate. A simple thermosta= t, may not be the best manager for temperature control, but it is surely the= simplest solution, and the least expensive. = My major heat source is a barrel wood stove which cost me around $40 for parts andmaterial, plus another $150 for flue system. I also hav= e a quick response, high operating, low initial cost baseboard electric system. My idea with the radiant floor system is to capture a standard solar collector's winters solar day worth of energy to be radiated during= the night. The wood stove is to provide backup and very cold weather capabilities, while the cheap initial cost baseboard heaters, around $40 each, would provide quick response stabilizing temperature control. I always have the ability to hook the floor system up the a hot water heate= r if should choose that option. = http://go.ourworld.nu/robert_conroy/24diamet.htm = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:33:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Heating stories MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got copper tubing running in the concrete of my basement and through out my house. The tubing runs into mop board heaters with the a gas fired boiler furnace in the basement. There's no forced air in the system. The water pressure in the tubing doesn't exceed 12 psi, and the temperature goes to about 180 degrees. I've got a wood stove in the basement but I rarely use it. It gets the place too dirty and if I forget to close the damper I loose a lot of heat, birds love nesting in it's chimney though. The water in the radiant system is pumped around and although you don't get a warm blast of air as from a forced air system the house can get down right hot. I like to sleep with windows open even when it's 10 or 20 below and the heater still keeps up. A computer control would be handy, because the system takes awhile to heat up the house. When I worked away from home and didn't need to heat the house all day a computer-timer would have been nice. All in all I think it's a good system but I have yet to find anyone capable of working on it or just checking it out. And lot's of people have given me missinformation about it. And being that it's natural gas it's cheap to run. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:23:22 -0600 Reply-To: jnugent@twne.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jim Nugent (the elder)" Subject: "machine-for-living" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ". . . Normal was "at rest." Einstein turned it the other way: 186,000 miles a second is normal. We are living in a world where change is normal." Lighter Means Better. Bucky first turned his new perceptions on the industry he knew best: building. In the era when the aircraft industry in particular was devising a new technology of lightweight engineering and materials, the traditional building methods seemed to him absurd. Traditional buildings depended on compression on their walls to support the roof. But modern technology has developed tensile materials, which are many times stronger in relation to their weight than compression materials. A house designed to use tension as its basic structural principle could be made infinitely lighter, built with fewer materials, and therefore far more cheaply. If mass-produced, such houses could solve the world's shelter problems. His first plan was pretty far out: apartment houses built of the aircraft industry's lightweight alloys, each floor hung from a huge central mast. A dirigible would carry the whole building to the selected site, then drop a bomb, plant the building's mast into the resulting crater, and buzz off—leaving a ground crew to fill in the hole around the mast with concrete. Fuller's next "anticipatory" design was more practical. It was for a single-family house that carried Corbusier's "machine-for-living" concept farther than the Continental avant-garde had dared to think it. The rooms were hung from a central mast. This left free the ground, which could be landscaped to taste. The Outer wall was of continuous glass, which enclosed both rooms and garden like a conservatory, with air conditioning from the central mast. The house was supposed to be independent of its location, and therefore easily movable if the family decided to change cities; the whole thing could be picked up and replanted anywhere. To avoid being tied down by sewage pipes, the bathroom was as nearly waterless as a bathroom can be; a ten-minute "bath" was supplied from a quart of water by means of a Fuller invention called a "fog gun," and provision was made for even this water to be re-collected from the air. The toilets emptied into a waterless device which mechanically packaged and stored the wastes for eventual pickup by a processing plant. Dusting was automatic, by a combination of compressed air and vacuum. Mass-produced, the house was planned to sell at about $1,500 on a 1928 level—approximately $4,800 today. This "4D House," as he called it, was the launching of the new Bucky Fuller. Though it only existed as a scale model (in which he included a tiny nude doll lying on a bed for verisimilitude and headline-catching purposes), and though it called for alloys, plastics, photoelectric cells and the like, which did not then exist, newspapers wrote it up, and the Marshall Field department store contracted for its display, to go with some daringly "modern" furniture just imported from France. Fuller's 4D (for Fourth Dimension) title for the house seemed drab to the promotion-minded store executives; they assigned a coupIe of high-powered word-sculptors to work out a new word for it. After two days of hectic brainstorming, the result was "dymaxion"—vaguely compounded of "dynamic," "maximum" and "ion." Marshall Field copyrighted it in Fuller's name, and in the years to come Bucky turned it into what amounted to a personal trademark. Today he explains that it means the "maximum gain of advantage from the minimal energy input." Messiah of Ideas. After the Marshall Field show, Fuller moved himself, his model house, and his wife and daughter back East. For about a year they stayed with Anne's family at Hewlett, L.I., and the Hewlett tribe still talks about the alarums and excursions that centered around Bucky and his one-man-band personality. He might insist that the occasion called for an operetta, and no one would be allowed to leave until he had composed the words and music and performed it on the spot. He might fall off the dock, between wind and water, and insist that he never got wet. He might wax furious. "His idea of mass housing seemed so silly in those days," remembers a family friend. "We were much more interested in having fun. Bucky would become so annoyed with us that he'd put on his hat and coat and walk the 20 miles into New York. It could be two in the morning. But Rucky would say, 'There are big things to be done in the world,' and off he would ~o. He might be gone for two or three days." In 1930 Fuller moved to a $30-a-month flat in Greenwich Village. When he was not lecturing around town on his Dymaxion House, he liked to hang out at a Village joint called Romany Marie's with artists and writers, talking his and their heads off. Excerpt from cover article on Bucky in the Modern Living Section of Time Magazine, January 10, 1964. Pages 47-49. Check my web site for a picture of the cover of that magazine featuring the Artzybasheff portrait of Bucky as a dome head. ----------------------------- Jim Nugent 258 West Nebraska Street Frankfort, Illinois 60423-1451 phone: 815-469-7485 e-mail: jnugent@twne.com web site: http://www.twne.com/jnugent ---------------------------- The great end of life is not knowledge, but action. - Thomas H. Huxley ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 06:40:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blueink8@HOTPOP.COM Subject: AD:Family Reunion T Shirts & More Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Message sent by: Kuppler Graphics, 32 West Main Street, Maple Shade, New Jersey , 08052, 1-800-810-4330. This list will NOT be sold. All addresses are automatically added to our remove list. Hello. My name is Bill from Kuppler Graphics. We do screenprinting on T Shirts , Sweatshirts, Jackets, Hats, Tote Bags and more! Do you or someone you know have a Family Reunion coming up? Kuppler Graphics wo uld like to provide you with some great looking T Shirts for your Reunion. Kuppler Graphics can also provide you with custom T's and promotional items such as imprinted magnets, keychains, pens, mugs, hats, etc. for your business or any fundraising activity (church, school, business etc.) We are a family owned company with over 15 years of experience. All work is done at this location. No middle man. Our prices are great! Click reply to email us or call 1-800-810-4330 for more info Bill Kuppler Graphics ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:40:49 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Cosmography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mark: I hope to see Cosmography on the internet soon. In any case, we can post plenty of excerpts on the internet and to the newsgroups. I posted a fairly long excerpt from Cosmography to the Tetworld mailing list recently, which I've posted again here below. If you have a scanner and a copy of Cosmography, why wait. Get started and I'm sure that by the time you're through the doors necessary to finish the job will have opened up. Below is part of the message posted recently to the Tetworld mailing list with the excerpts from Cosmography. As the home of the failed superconducting-supercollider, Central Texas is symbolically fitting as the location of the Spaceship Earth Science City. That the buckminsterfullerene has been designated the Official Molecule of the State of Texas is also fitting. When I have time, I'll explain why the superconducting-supercolider, formerly slated for construction in Central Texas, was domed to failure from it's inception, and why the R. Buckminster Fuller Spaceship Earth Science City, strategically located in Central Texas, is destined for success. For now, I'll leave with these quotes. "Synergetics provides real-world understanding of interarrangeabilities of subatomic particles, which is to say, a more sophisticated understanding of subatomics than that of the nuclear physicist whose favorite tool is the atom smasher. "Although I have gone into this subject in a certain amount of detail, what I have intended to demonstrate is simply that the framework of synergetic geometry makes possible the discovery of many varieties of subatomics all within the same seemingly static space. "Through the use of synergetic geometry, then, particle physics, which is one of the more abstruse and esoteric areas of frontier theorizing in science, falls within the grasp of the ordinary individual, allowing him or her to consider, to model, and to puzzle over it. Synergetics uses simple models based on a few basic modules that fit together in the most logical possible ways. Synergetics uses whole numbers, completely eliminating all irrational, imaginary, and irresolvable numbers and complex formulae. It is amazing that technology has been able to produce what it has, considering the obstacle presented by current scientific conventions in the field of geometry and measurement. The scientific and academic establishment still cowers in the Dark Ages imposed by human power structures many centuries ago. The dawn of scientific civilization is yet at hand." "Government-financed, private-enterprise-exploited atomic accelerators and their kindred producers spend about a billion dollars per subatomic particle discovered, whereas I have firmly established and classified all that they have or ever will soon discover, and vastly more, only at the cost of living expenses for self and family during my fifty-four-year program. "These are my own half-century-ago discoveries, comprehensively published together for the first time in Synergetics." -- Buckminster Fuller. Cosmography p. 63 "The present preoccupation of the world's physicists is to use billions of dollars' worth of atom smashers to discover something about the nucleus of the atom, which is akin to smashing a Boeing 747 in order to discover how it's 500,000 component parts fit together in one functional design. All the physicists need to do is study Synergetics to learn how nature designed atoms and combinations of them - in pure principle." -- Buckminster Fuller. Cosmography p. 244-245 "Michael S. Mitchell" wrote: > > This is a great idea, to put this book on the net. > It was his lecture that he did all over the world siffted > and siffted to perfection. I would sit in all his lectures > for 16 years recording them and this book when I read > it I said, this is the lecture. I think so anyway. Or I did > 16 years ago when I read it I have not read it in a long time. > SSE, please be notified that I have sent you my only tape of > the world man band and I want you to make a copy and send > it back. This is the only way I do not have the time > to do it myself. Please send it back I sent it today Saturday. > Just copy it and send it back, thanks! > > SpaceshipEarth.com wrote: > > > You can do better than have me ask permission from the EBF (mailto:EstateBF@aol.com). > > Better get someone > > that's an insider, ask them yourself, or ask Amy to ask them for you. You've got a proven track > > record. You've got one feather in your hat. Keep going and you'll have a full > > headdress. We'll find server space. That's not a > > problem. BFI will probably provide that. > > > > I think that Buckminster Fuller's books and papers compiled onto a CD would sell well from > > the internet. > > > > Mark Somers wrote: > > > > > > Spaceship > > > > > > I've got a scanner and a copy of Fuller's book, > > > 'Cosmography'. > > > You get permission to publish it on the internet > > > and I'll help you. You'll also have to get server space > > > because I'm running out of free server space > > > that isn't cluttered with advertisement. > > > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:47:06 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: World Man Band (Was Re: Cosmography) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Michale: That's a great idea sending me the only copy of the World Man Band tape that you spent over $100,000 to produce. I hope and pray that it doesn't get lost in the mail. I understand that you have a large number of single copies of recordings of Buckminster Fuller's lectures covering a 16 year span. Go ahead and put those in the mail to me also. No! Just kidding. Spring is already in the air. Michael Mitchell caught an arrow from cupid's bow. The wound has become infected with affection. Love fever has set in. A potion of wedded bliss is the cure for Michael's lovesickness. And a honeymoon on his love boat. Wishing you all the best, sse "Michael S. Mitchell" wrote: > > This is a great idea, to put this book on the net. > It was his lecture that he did all over the world siffted > and siffted to perfection. I would sit in all his lectures > for 16 years recording them and this book when I read > it I said, this is the lecture. I think so anyway. Or I did > 16 years ago when I read it I have not read it in a long time. > SSE, please be notified that I have sent you my only tape of > the world man band and I want you to make a copy and send > it back. This is the only way I do not have the time > to do it myself. Please send it back I sent it today Saturday. > Just copy it and send it back, thanks! > > SpaceshipEarth.com wrote: > > > You can do better than have me ask permission from the EBF (mailto:EstateBF@aol.com). > > Better get someone > > that's an insider, ask them yourself, or ask Amy to ask them for you. You've got a proven track > > record. You've got one feather in your hat. Keep going and you'll have a full > > headdress. We'll find server space. That's not a > > problem. BFI will probably provide that. > > > > I think that Buckminster Fuller's books and papers compiled onto a CD would sell well from > > the internet. > > > > Mark Somers wrote: > > > > > > Spaceship > > > > > > I've got a scanner and a copy of Fuller's book, > > > 'Cosmography'. > > > You get permission to publish it on the internet > > > and I'll help you. You'll also have to get server space > > > because I'm running out of free server space > > > that isn't cluttered with advertisement. > > > > > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:43:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Spaceship you lazy bum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HaHaHaHaHa, heck no! I'm not going to start scanning a book without the appropriate legalities out of the way. Amy has a very positive and I think a very intelligent, attitude regarding the on line publishing of her book 'A Fuller Explanation' http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html And I'm afraid I don't see that with the Fuller institute. I see it that the Institute wants to package "Bucky" to make some money. And the problem with their approach is simple. Discoveries in the natural sciencies ain't copyrightable nor patentable. And it's the gems of those discoveries that make a difference not who discovered them. I put Amy's book on the net thinking and hoping that maybe ... just maybe ..... some bright kid or person would stumble apon Amy's book and discover a whole new world of thinking. And who knows what that person may come up with. Hugh Kenner published his book Geodesic Mathematics and how to use it with the same attitude, he pointed it out in the intro to his book. There are bright stars out there in the world. Hell just read what Amy came up with!!! Her book is brilliant!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:00:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Sub atomic predictions. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK Spaceship, or anyone for that matter, what's the formulation for the 'Top' quark? Why is the damn thing so big? What's the proton's decay? Does it decay? Why so few anti neutrino's? And why abandon the scientific method at this time, ie experimentation? The Greeks did that and created a useless high priesthood. And please no Fullereeeeeeese! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:04:06 -0600 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "SpaceshipEarth.com" Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Spaceship you lazy bum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not lazy, I just don't have a scanner or a computer that I think would be much good for scanning. I was thinking that you could ftp me the scans and I could do some of the proofreading. Perhaps others will collaborate in this effort also. Some months ago I thought about a similar collaborative effort to get Bucky's works online or on CD. The fact is, I have my hands attending so many fires already, I'm reluctant to add another project to attend to. I'm not a great speller, but the word processor will do most of the work, and any errors that slip through can be ferreted out over time. I still find errors in the digital copies of Critical Path and Grunch of Giants that Kirby scanned that I use for research. What a joy those are, and so productive to use. I believe I saw somewhere that Hugh Kenner's Geodesic Mathematics and How To Use It, or a similar book, is going to be put on the internet. The BFI has already put several of Buckminster Fuller's publications on line. You complain about not having enough free web space, then you complain about someone trying to make some money. The betterment of humanity should be the objective, and not just to make money, but that "free" webspace, and all the other things, have to be paid for somehow. One way to pay for it and, I'm sure, provide funds for other projects also, is to sell compilations of Bucky's published works on CD. Some think that people won't buy CDs if they can get the material off the internet, but I disagree. Many others are marketing that way on the internet, and the CDs can be marketed through other channels. These are Buckminster Fuller's books that BFI has put online so far (plus Amy's book), and I'm sure there are more to come. Cosmography may be next. Education Automation: http://www.bfi.org/education_automation.htm Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth: http://www.bfi.org/operating_manual.htm Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking: http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/synergetics.html A Fuller Explanation, by Amy Edmondson (Explanation of Synergetic Geometry): http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html Available in a downloadable Zip file from this page: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/42.html GRUNCH of Giants (Gross Universal Cash Heist): http://www.bfi.org/grunchofgiants2.html Mark Somers wrote: > > HaHaHaHaHa, heck no! I'm not going to > start scanning a book without the appropriate > legalities out of the way. > > Amy has a very positive > and I think a very intelligent, attitude regarding > the on line publishing of her book > 'A Fuller Explanation' > http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html > > And I'm afraid I don't see that with the Fuller institute. > I see it that the Institute wants to package "Bucky" to > make some money. And the problem with their approach > is simple. Discoveries in the natural sciencies ain't > copyrightable nor patentable. And it's the gems of those > discoveries that make a difference not who discovered > them. I put Amy's book on the net thinking and hoping that > maybe ... just maybe ..... some bright kid or person would > stumble > apon Amy's book and discover a whole new world of thinking. > And who knows what that person may come up with. > Hugh Kenner published his book Geodesic Mathematics and how > to use it > with the same attitude, he pointed it out in the intro to > his book. > > There are bright stars out there in the world. > Hell just read what Amy came up with!!! Her book is > brilliant!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:00:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Yep CD's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spaceship. Yep CD's of Fuller's work would be great. Hugh Kenner's book on CD would be an incredible reference. I don't know if they'd sell out on the general market or not though. I've donated money to the BFI before, but I've found that if your not donating big bucks, you don't exist. I even e-mailed them awhile back letting them know I had a scanner and was willing to work on some archiving, They have/had a request for such work on thier website. They never got back to me I don't think they've got their shit together. Even Medard humored me by taking my phone calls when I donated money to the World Game Institute. The impression I'm left with is they (the BFI) only wants big dogs with big bucks. Which is fine I guess but an attitude like that sure seems to fly in the face of an alturistic public persona. It doesn't seem like they're much interested in a grass roots approach. And does it really make a damn bit of difference what my background is, what I look like, my attitude etc. etc. as long as the job gets done? Can you or anyone even tell what type of computer I used to put Amy's book on line? It's silly! Kenner's book is being prepared for online publication by Rick Bono. I had a web addy with a download of the first 130 pages in Acrobat form but I lost it during one of the many times my computer has gone into one of it's bellybutton contemplation modes. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:21:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings <> Brian Hutchings 28-FEB-1999 17:21 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I agree, about abandoning the experimental methods, of which the Greeks were pioneers, of course. after all, by no means did Bucky "solve" atomic physics or QBS -- ken Snelson came a lot closer, or as close as is possible with a somewhat ad hoc model -- although he is on the correct railroad track! thus quoth; Why is the damn thing so big? What's the proton's decay? Does it decay? Why so few anti neutrino's? And why abandon the scientific method at this time, ie experimentation? The Greeks did that and created a useless high priesthood. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:52:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Spaceship you lazy bum Comments: To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When people who make money are people that do what bucky does, they help humanity with the money. I see no reason to not give money to anyone that is on this list and wants to help humanity. Like to buy my dome to make it a park so I can work on my bucky book and maybe have my own world game here in LA for 2000 with the money. The BFI has already put several of Buckminster Fuller's publications on line. You > complain about not having enough free web space, then you complain about someone trying > to make some money. The betterment of humanity should be the objective, and not just to > make money, but that "free" webspace, and all the other things, have to be paid for > somehow. One way to pay for it and, I'm sure, provide funds for other projects also, is > to sell compilations of Bucky's published works on CD. Some think that people won't buy > CDs if they can get the material off the internet, but I disagree. Many others are > marketing that way on the internet, and the CDs can be marketed through other channels. > > These are Buckminster Fuller's books that BFI has put online so far (plus Amy's book), > and I'm sure there are more to come. Cosmography may be next. > > Education Automation: > http://www.bfi.org/education_automation.htm > > Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth: > http://www.bfi.org/operating_manual.htm > > Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking: > http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/synergetics.html > > A Fuller Explanation, by Amy Edmondson (Explanation > of Synergetic Geometry): > http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html > Available in a downloadable Zip file from this page: > http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/42.html > > GRUNCH of Giants (Gross Universal Cash Heist): > http://www.bfi.org/grunchofgiants2.html > > Mark Somers wrote: > > > > HaHaHaHaHa, heck no! I'm not going to > > start scanning a book without the appropriate > > legalities out of the way. > > > > Amy has a very positive > > and I think a very intelligent, attitude regarding > > the on line publishing of her book > > 'A Fuller Explanation' > > http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html > > > > And I'm afraid I don't see that with the Fuller institute. > > I see it that the Institute wants to package "Bucky" to > > make some money. And the problem with their approach > > is simple. Discoveries in the natural sciencies ain't > > copyrightable nor patentable. And it's the gems of those > > discoveries that make a difference not who discovered > > them. I put Amy's book on the net thinking and hoping that > > maybe ... just maybe ..... some bright kid or person would > > stumble > > apon Amy's book and discover a whole new world of thinking. > > And who knows what that person may come up with. > > Hugh Kenner published his book Geodesic Mathematics and how > > to use it > > with the same attitude, he pointed it out in the intro to > > his book. > > > > There are bright stars out there in the world. > > Hell just read what Amy came up with!!! Her book is > > brilliant!!!!