From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Oct 11 17:21:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g9BLLdmd019004 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:21:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200210112121.g9BLLdmd019004@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 11061 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2002 21:21:41 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (listserv@128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 11 Oct 2002 21:21:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:21:31 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9905" To: Chris Fearnley Content-Length: 292233 Lines: 6785 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 00:00:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. 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(Can be in the same message.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 18:21:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: BUCKY PIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice black & white pic of Bucky holding an icosa model: http://www.apple.se/thinkdifferent/tdperson.html Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:42:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: BUCKY PIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the http://www.alfa.com Buckminster Fullerenes for sale The ALfa Aesar company sells Fullerenes. The same as my dome in Carbondale that is a Fullerene model in Carbondale http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html check out my new picture of bucky and anne on 4th page. Joe S Moore wrote: > Nice black & white pic of Bucky holding an icosa model: > http://www.apple.se/thinkdifferent/tdperson.html > > Joe S Moore > mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:44:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: LA GEODE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice color pics of the Geode dome at the City of Science in Paris, France: http://www.cite-sciences.fr/new/tout_cite/geode/geode_3.htm Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:58:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: SKYCAR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An article about Moller's vertical takeoff & landing (VTOL) car: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/CuttingEdge/skycar990211.html Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:26:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles J Knight Subject: Re: SKYCAR Comments: cc: airship-list@lists.Colorado.EDU >An article about Moller's vertical takeoff & landing (VTOL) car: >http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/CuttingEdge/skycar990211.html You know, it's amazing how similar Moller's VTOL skycar is to a conceptual plan put in Mechanix Illustrated in March 1957. In fact, it's even similar aesthetically...especially considering that this picture is over 40 years old. (I just picked a copy up at an estate sale...I'll be scanning the articles for those who are interested, and putting them on a web site. Details to follow. Strangely enough, it doesn't seem to have any major engineering problems, with today's composites) -- Chuck Knight P.S. I also picked up an issue dealing with twin hulled dirigible cruise ships (atomic powered...it was the 50's!) which look plausible. Picture a 4-story tall rigid wing between two "cigar" dirigibles...one on each side. Looked like a flying catamaran. I'll scan those pictures too... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:45:37 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: IHETS Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS In-Reply-To: <000e01be92f7$c8d78ee0$17c196d0@home.wtp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Mark Somers wrote: > Stabilize Population? > Even Fuller pointed out that the planet could > support at least double the population. > Yeah, there seems to be some myth going around about food shortage and over-population. > And what's with the emphasis on Aids? Compared to most other deadly diseases AIDS is extremely preventable. I'd much rather have a cure for cancer. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:36:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aids is more comprehensively important to the whole world than cancer. Cancer is on the run but aids is devastating Africa. Third world countries are being killed big time with aids. Eric Nastav wrote: > On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Mark Somers wrote: > > > Stabilize Population? > > Even Fuller pointed out that the planet could > > support at least double the population. > > > Yeah, there seems to be some myth going around about food shortage and > over-population. > > > And what's with the emphasis on Aids? > > Compared to most other deadly diseases AIDS is extremely preventable. > I'd much rather have a cure for cancer. > > Eric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:55:55 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cancer is also preventable, at least to a great extent. I guess it would depend on whether you had aids or cancer as to which cure was most important. Moon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:58:44 EST Reply-To: coolbear@earthlink.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jonathan Thompson Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Some people are predisposed to certain forms of Cancer, no matter what they do. AIDS is 100% preventable by choice of people. There are a certain number who are completely innocent who get it (ie. babies born with it, blood transfusion cases, married partners who get it from their spouse due to either innocent means or not, and the (hopefully) low number of those who get it from people intentionally trying to force it on someone else). Most of the cases of AIDS are as a direct result of those doing things they should NOT be doing, or the innocents above being affected by the not-so-innocents. If people would live within the bonds of marriage, even with all the tainted blood cases, AIDS would not be a meaningful killer. I have sympathy for those who are afflicted by it who were not doing things they should be ashamed of. For those who knowingly do the risky things (which is, for the most part, considered to be a BAD thing in most religions I know of) I can't feel sympathy for them getting AIDS. For someone who knows they have AIDS and chooses to risk others with their actions, they are playing with a loaded sawed-off shotgun, and are more than likely going to be more deadly. Practicing safe sex is NOT the answer. There is no truly safe sex with another creature. Devisings of man fail, even if it isn't very often. No, don't be celibate, either. Have all the sex you want within the bounds of marriage with your partner of the opposite sex. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sex within those limits, doesn't matter what anyone else tries to tell you, unless you have some odd physical condition that makes it dangerous for you. It is completely healthy on more than one level. Absolutely crucial to the survival of the human race. >Cancer is also preventable, at least to a great extent. I guess it would >depend on whether you had aids or cancer as to which cure was most important.> Knowledge is Conceptual Reality (myself) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 23:32:49 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS Comments: To: coolbear@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Who gave you the keys to the morality of the world? The vast majority of cancer could be prevented by people not doing things they shouldn't. I'm not qualified to say what the world wants but I know the world doesn't need arrogant judgmental people like you. A great many people have gotten many diseases because they were doing something that in hind sight caused the disease. I am married, and am faithful to my spouse, but not everyone can or would want to conform to my idea of what is right or wrong. "Judge not least ye be judged" Have compassion, disease is not a moral judgment, aids didn't come on the scene because of some decree from heaven. It was spread to humans from chimps through the "bush meat trade", people cutting roads into the rain forest allowed the wholesale slaughter of animals that had only rarely been killed for food, the presence of infected meat and sharp instruments allowed blood to blood contact. It has happened many times in the past, our intercontinental culture has allowed the spread of what had always been a localized disease. Changes in morality has nothing to do with it, exposure of humans to viruses from places and animals formally limited by isolation has everything to do with the spread of many diseases, aids, ebola, even some cancer is suspected to be caused by viruses. Placing a moral judgment on disease of any kind only serves to cruelly stigmatize those that are unlucky enough to contract the disease. Moon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:59:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS Comments: To: Jonathan Thompson In-Reply-To: <199905040252.TAA15816@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jonathan Thompson: You have no place in this forum. Leave now. - Trevor Blake -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 23:40:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do not leave. To include and allow one to figure out that homosexuality is not there decision when it is not them that is making it to be made. He is homophobic. I am to as well to some degree but heh! each person is allowed to make their own decision for themselves. And yes if the world was managed with the Fuller world game we could all solve these problems. These problems are a planet management problem. We must unite not say leave to all others and then through education we can all stand as one. The unitific method is to include not special case race, class , segregate, stigmatize, unite us all it the only way. For me Unititvity of all. P. O. Box 2321 wrote: > Jonathan Thompson: > > You have no place in this forum. Leave now. > > - Trevor Blake > > -- > http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:29:34 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: I'm back... all systems go In-Reply-To: <370a20b2.199898455@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [STUDY GUIDE: print and file, if interested in synergetics] Well, I'm back. Kirby here. Been out in the newsgroups writing up a storm, taking advantage=20 of Oregon's new charter school legislation, all but passed,=20 that will let me and my friends in the high tech sector=20 (Silicon Forest ya know) screen our own teachers -- plus supply internship and visitor programs for those trained in the "old=20 ways" and wanting a glimpse of the future (and maybe a new job). The math curriculum uses Fuller's concentric hierarchy as a=20 pillar, a kind of coat rack from which to hang lots of key=20 terminology and operational mathematics -- from rotation=20 matrices to quaternions (a bridge to Clifford algebras).[1] =20 I've got a six chapter webuscript showing how object oriented=20 thinking, inspired by the latest in computer science, synchs=20 nicely with 'Polyhedron' as the abstract class -- the actual=20 concentric hierarchy polys as subclasses thereof.[2] All this ties together through something I call a math center,=20 which features NASA-style consoles, big screen up front, plus=20 NASA-style simulators, ranging in cost and sophistication=20 ('Doom' and 'Quake' at the low end, 'SimCity' a bit more=20 constructive). In math centers, students will get the hands on=20 workbench experience, getting to know their technologies more=20 intimately than permitted by a sticking to bizapps ("Office=20 suite" applications), although these are of course important as=20 well.[3] STRUCK plays a role, because it links Snelson's tensegrity to=20 logarithmic distancing equations, to dynamical systems theory=20 -- with Bucky's Synergetics in the background as the embodiment=20 of incommensurability (tamed wildness) -- where the VE and=20 icosa lay down together in a peaceable kingdom, mapped by LCD=20 triangles. =46or those knew to Bucky's 'Synergetics' (the source of his=20 spheres and domes), here's a compressed outline lifted from=20 Synergetics-L (another list you might check into, if hard core=20 =46uller Schooler literature is your bag (means going way beyond=20 being a good domie)). * * * To: "synergetics-l" =46rom: Kirby Urner Subject: [synergetics-l] compressed synergetics Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:39:20 -0700 Here's a useful outline for people preparing to teach this stuff: sphere packing, ivm concentric hierarchy jitterbug (symmetry bridge) 10F^2+2 modules great circles iso-symmetry (A,B) 25 great circles ico-symmetry (T,E,K) 31 great circles LCD triangles (iso-ico combo -- juxtaposed) space-filling MITE =3D 2A + B Coupler =3D 8 MITE rh dodeca =3D 12 1/2 Coupler ivm switching (bcc,scp) systems twonesses: concave/convex (x2) vs polar/axial (+2) omnitriangulation N:F:E=3D1:2:3 where N=3DV-2 and V+F=3DE+2 angle vs frequency (frequency =3D cyclic/metered change) shape (sizeless/timeless) vs scale (energy content) principles vs special cases thinking (narrative accounting as alchemy/metalurgy) visio-Eulerian + viscero-Gibbsian abstract systematic + phase ruled tensegrity compression vs tension linear vs heuristic content vs context precession (non-180 degree oppositions) cost vs benefit money vs wealth energy vs information entropy vs sense Key: bcp =3D body centric cubic (=3D 4 ivms) scp =3D simple cubic packing (e.g. xyz) ivm =3D isotropic vector matrix (isomatrix) iso-symmetry =3D symmetry associate w/ system embedded in isomatrix ico-symmetry =3D 5-fold symmetry K =3D Koski mods (tet using any 6 of 7 edges of golden cuboid, = phi-scaled) -- Kirby Notes: [1] http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/oopalgebra.html [2] http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/oop.html [3] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/mathcenter.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 23:51:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: I'm back... all systems go Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit axis and spin cool daddy? Kirby Urner wrote: > [STUDY GUIDE: print and file, if interested in synergetics] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 03:13:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MESSAGE from ="List 04-MAY-1999 2:39 Who gave you the keys to the morality of the world? The vast majority of cancer could be prevented by people not doing things they shouldn't. I'm not qualified to say what the world wants but I know the world doesn't need arrogant judgmental people like you. A great many people have gotten many diseases because they were doing something that in hind sight caused the disease. I am married, and am faithful to my spouse, but not everyone can or would want to conform to my idea of what is right or wrong. "Judge not least ye be judged" Have compassion, disease is not a moral judgment, aids didn't come on the scene because of some decree from heaven. It was spread to humans from chimps through the "bush meat trade", people cutting roads into the rain forest allowed the wholesale slaughter of animals that had only rarely been killed for food, the presence of infected meat and sharp instruments allowed blood to blood contact. It has happened many times in the past, our intercontinental culture has allowed the spread of what had always been a localized disease. Changes in morality has nothing to do with it, exposure of humans to viruses from places and animals formally limited by isolation has everything to do with the spread of many diseases, aids, ebola, even some cancer is suspected to be caused by viruses. Placing a moral judgment on disease of any kind only serves to cruelly stigmatize those that are unlucky enough to contract the disease. Moon - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 04-MAY-1999 3:13 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us http://tetrahedron.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:11:51 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: I'm back... all systems go In-Reply-To: <372E3690.BC8AC24D@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 3 May 1999 23:51:44 +0000, you wrote: >axis and spin cool daddy? Went over this earlier on the other list. The 25 and 31 refer to the axes of spin of the dymaxion & its twisted sister (VE=20 and icosa). There's more to say, but I'm busy being compressed. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:15:37 -0700 Reply-To: oregon@domes.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suppose as a cancer man I could interject my own opinions here. My belief is that cancer is not so much preventable (I'm a young non-smoker, who eats fairly healthy and have not exposed myself to any major carcinogens and has no family history of cancer), as it is survivable if caught early. I almost responded to the earlier posts, but realized that having had cancer, my bias is certainly going to be toward in that direction. I will share some opinions, just in case they help someone else with the same or similar situation. My biggest beef with the health care industry is the difficulty in getting people to do the testing early, when the cancer is survivable. In my own case (colon cancer), I reported symptoms a year before the diagnostic test that showed that I had cancer was preformed. Then, I made the mistake of going through a sigmoidoscopy rather than just doing a colonoscopy. The sigmoidoscopy only checks the lower 2' of your colon and experts believe that 30-50% of tumors occur in the 4' of colon that is not checked by the sigmoidoscopy. It is, however, cheaper for the insurance company than the colonoscopy, and can be preformed by your regular doctor, giving both the doctor and the insurance company the incentive to use it rather than the more expensive, more complete, and definitely more comfortable colonoscopy (you get drugs for the colonoscopy). Had the proper tests been done when I reported the symptoms in the first place, I may have avoided chemotherapy, radiation therapy, and surgery (and every quack in the world trying to sell me on some other miracle cure). How's that for a long, off Bucky-topic, rant? Michael Hissom wrote: > Cancer is also preventable, at least to a great extent. I guess it would > depend on whether you had aids or cancer as to which cure was most important. > > Moon -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Client Representative Oregon Dome, Inc. oregon@domes.com www.domes.com 3215 Meadow Lane Eugene, OR 97402 (800) 572-8943 (541) 689-3443 (541) 689-9275 - fax ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:02:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------78FFDA00F92586E5B3B04453" --------------78FFDA00F92586E5B3B04453 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > Last Night I went and had a couple of whiskey and cokes at the marina > > International Hotel. I met this guy that was named Mark and published > > children's books. I told him I was looking for a donor for the dome > to > become a park and he was a real Fuller freak. i stated Mc Donald's or > > someone like that could really help and make this a park and get a lot > > of PR for the human development of this planet. He state the owner > president of Mc Donald's is from Illinois and he knows him and he > is going to call him and tell him about Bucky and Anne's dome to > be a FULLERENE MEMORIAL PARK in Carbondale and that > the dome is a c60 model of the Fullerene molecule and he thought > Mr. Greenberg who is the starter of Mc Donald's would like to help. > I hope so I want the park to happen in July 4. 2000 on Bucky;s > birthday and he and anne's anniversary. I am not trying to be greedy > about the dome I only want it to be seen as a real design > artifact that it is. I am very willing to sell it for what William > Perk has > offered me in the past and I have turned down. I only want it to go > to > the community and be a point of celebration for the world to come. > Please understand that Kirby. I do not just want it to happen to get > my > investment back, I want it to be forwarded into the future for the > future > to see how humble this man was to do so great things for everyone. > Love Mike Mitchell to all. > > Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > >> >> >> Michael S. Mitchell wrote: >> >> > Please check out the new picture of Bucky and Anne page four. >> > >> > http://earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html >> > Sorry wrong link site before. >> > This is the Captains Cabin of Space Ship Earth. >> >> > > --------------78FFDA00F92586E5B3B04453 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Michael S. Mitchell wrote:

 Last Night I went and had a couple of whiskey and cokes at the marina
International Hotel.  I met this guy that was named Mark and published
children's books.  I told him I was looking for a donor for the dome to
become a park and he was a real Fuller freak.  i stated Mc Donald's or
someone like that could really help and make this a park and get a lot
of PR for the human development of this planet. He state the owner
president of Mc Donald's is from Illinois and he knows him and he
is going to call him and tell him about Bucky and Anne's dome to
be a FULLERENE MEMORIAL PARK in Carbondale and that
the dome is a c60 model of the Fullerene molecule and he thought
Mr. Greenberg who is the starter of Mc Donald's would like to help.
I hope so I want the park to happen in July 4. 2000 on Bucky;s
birthday and he and anne's anniversary. I am not trying to be greedy
about the dome I only want it to be seen as a real design
artifact that it is.  I am very willing to sell it for what William Perk has
offered me in the past and I have turned down.  I only want it to go to
the community and be a point of celebration for the world to come.
Please understand that Kirby. I do not just want it to happen to get my
investment back, I want it to be forwarded into the future for the future
to see how humble this man was to do so great things for everyone.
Love Mike Mitchell to all.

Michael S. Mitchell wrote:

 

Michael S. Mitchell wrote:

Please check out the new picture of Bucky and Anne page four.

http://earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html
Sorry wrong link site before.
This is the Captains Cabin of Space Ship Earth.

 
 
  --------------78FFDA00F92586E5B3B04453-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:16:45 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park In-Reply-To: <372F6069.65DEB446@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Please understand that Kirby. I do not just want it to happen to get >> my investment back, I want it to be forwarded into the future for the >> future to see how humble this man was to do so great things for every- >> one. Love Mike Mitchell to all. I think by July 4 2000 it'll be much more evident to a lot more people what's the relevance of Fuller's contribution to their future living standards. I, for one, am not pinning any hopes on your dome project leading the charge -- but that doesn't mean I'll fight it in the = footnotes,=20 any more than I already have. 60 seconds on prime time television (like in a commercial) could do more to revector our future fortunes as Fuller=20 Schoolers than $100K spent on real estate in the middle of Illinois=20 somewhere. Kirby PS: I like the Carbondale/fullerene resonance and will plan to exploit=20 that somewhat in my writings -- but I don't need any $$$ to leverage=20 that advantage. Remember that the Fuller School is lean and mean (highly ephemeralized), and any ostentatious show or waste, ala "exterior = decorating"=20 is going to net well-deserved ridicule. Best that our network remains=20 well-nigh invisible, as per today, but with nodes everywhere (also the=20 status quo). It'll take a microbiologist's focus to see that all these=20 mushrooms comprise a single organism, owing to nanotubes (buckytubes)=20 running everywhichway beneath the forest floor -- a finding which may=20 give him or her the creeps, but then hitherto unsuspected natural=20 phenomena often take some getting used to, enroute to being taken=20 somewhat for granted). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:56:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Urner wrote: > >> Please understand that Kirby. I do not just want it to happen to get > >> my investment back, I want it to be forwarded into the future for the > >> future to see how humble this man was to do so great things for every- > >> one. Love Mike Mitchell to all. > i am asking to get what Bill Perk has already offered and i refusedin 1995. This amount is surly enough to make my gesture of making the park available as a propitious design. the funny thing is that sometimes the first things are first in the way the Universe works. The dome is the first artifact of Bucky and Anne's success for them alone. He then bought a boat called Intuition. When he was designing the move to the City Science Center in Philli, he put a flow chart on the black board of the R. Buckminster Fuller office of world resources and world game. The first things on the board was the dome, the boat and the archive. When you make a boat you lay the keel first, when you launch it you use the keel to move it to the water. The dome is part of the laid keel of Fuller's life. IF THE DOME IS LAUNCHED THE REST OF THE BOAT GOES WITH IT! This may seem self serving to you, but I am not asking 100K any more. Because I want to see the dome launched into the sea of reality. I wanted to use the money that was over the amount that I was offered to have a world game 2000 in LA, and to give the BFI money to make the audio tapes available on the internet to hear him speak. I spent over 50,000 dollars in money making these tapes over decades of traveling with bucky and anne. This was all paid for by me alone. Those tapes are full of facts and insights that can make the world available to his integrity and artifacts. This is my motive not for selfish profit as you have projected with you allegations of ego mania. I want to use what I make from the dome to help humanity as my letter from bucky in his own hand writing states to me in 1968. My life is to help humanity, and that is what I want to do if I obtain resources with the dome. Why am I not interested to do this if bucky in his own hand has stated this is true. Why can I not have the right to make artifacts and events with the money if I obtain it. I have proven in the past that that I am not selfish when I would get on a plane and fly with him to hundreds of lectures all over the world and make the tape recordings of these with my own money with his permission that I have sacrificed enough not to deserve your small insults as if I were some pirate of his integrity. YOU HAVE SLANDERED ME HIS DAUGHTER THE BFI AND ANYONE THAT YOU CAN, WHY?] Just because you bought a computer first. You need to realize which side your bread is buttered. YOU are under the axis of bucky fuller, and you spin around him, not the other way around. take your position and mind your own position. You are no better than anyone else here on earth. The dome can be the key log that makes the world break, if the presidents wife comes to the dome and dedicates it. She is from Ill. This is what we all need, so start cheer leading with me for the event. If someone donates the money for 100K they get it off their taxes anyway, would you rather it go to war money? Why not give the money to someone that has already given more than what I would make form the dome to the cause with the travel and tapes that I have already over 30 years produced and donated to the archives. It is not fair for you to say what you do about me. It is not fair for you to slander the dome. It is not fair for you to slander the BFI because you think they should do what you want on your agenda. It is not fair for you to slander Allegra for her integrity is much deeper and on a much greater agenda than your little axis can spin. Take your place and spin with pride that you are even involved. It is easy to be negative and it is hard to be positive. try it and see that you will receive the real integrity you hope for. I have a great respect for what you can be but not for what you are now. think about it maybe you are doing it all wrong so far. If you say your sorry, it will all be all right. the universe works very mysteriously. If you lighten your load you can spin faster with more area to have with your inertia for humanity. Good luck! MSM > I think by July 4 2000 it'll be much more evident to a lot more people > what's the relevance of Fuller's contribution to their future living > standards. I, for one, am not pinning any hopes on your dome project > leading the charge -- but that doesn't mean I'll fight it in the footnotes, > any more than I already have. 60 seconds on prime time television (like > in a commercial) could do more to revector our future fortunes as Fuller > Schoolers than $100K spent on real estate in the middle of Illinois > somewhere. > > Kirby > > PS: I like the Carbondale/fullerene resonance and will plan to exploit > that somewhat in my writings -- but I don't need any $$$ to leverage > that advantage. Remember that the Fuller School is lean and mean (highly > ephemeralized), and any ostentatious show or waste, ala "exterior decorating" > is going to net well-deserved ridicule. Best that our network remains > well-nigh invisible, as per today, but with nodes everywhere (also the > status quo). It'll take a microbiologist's focus to see that all these > mushrooms comprise a single organism, owing to nanotubes (buckytubes) > running everywhichway beneath the forest floor -- a finding which may > give him or her the creeps, but then hitherto unsuspected natural > phenomena often take some getting used to, enroute to being taken > somewhat for granted). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:29:35 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park In-Reply-To: <373031E9.D2EF52CB@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >that I have sacrificed enough not to deserve your small insults as if I = were >some pirate of his integrity. YOU HAVE SLANDERED ME HIS DAUGHTER >THE BFI AND ANYONE THAT YOU CAN, WHY?] Many more have sacrificed way more than you will ever comprehend (no, not talking about myself). BFI's mismanagement (in the form of=20 wasted opportunities) is nothing to just bleep over. Allegra chose her role as an accountable individual in this game. She was trained by Werner Erhard, as was I, and got that responsibility has nothing=20 to do with blame or burden. >Just because you bought a computer first. You need to realize which >side your bread is buttered. YOU are under the axis of bucky fuller, = and >you spin around him, not the other way around.=20 I don't buy your metaphors. Whatever my relationship with Bucky, I=20 so far have no reason to admire yours. >It is not fair for you to say what you do about me. Listen, most people, upon reading that one of Bucky Fuller's own=20 students had control of the dome, would think "great, now he'll use it to push Fuller's agenda". But they'd be wrong. Because you don't use the dome to advertise Fuller, you use it as a piece of real estate so that somebody else (not you) can do the real work. Some student you turned out to be (guffaw). You want the money *and* you think=20 you deserve some credit for whatever the real risk taker does with=20 the asset, once you've obtained your steep asking price. I say once=20 the dome is sold, we forget about you as a bad memory, as someone who=20 betrayed Bucky by making "unitivity" into some phoney baloney piss poor imitation of synergetics, trying to win the adulation of Bucky's=20 admirers with your silly simulation of his work. >It is not fair for you to slander the dome. It is not fair for you=20 >to slander the BFI because you think they should do what you want on=20 >your agenda. I don't slander the BFI. I think the BFI is completely innocent in=20 this affair, because it's just an acronym, a legal fiction, a public corporation, a 501(c)(3). Many people I know poured their heart and soul into making BFI a success. Russell Chu for example. Your name was never mentioned however. As a benefactor, you certainly never made much of a splash. You made some tapes. Great. Most of the=20 time since you've spent slandering those who've done the most to=20 advance Fuller's agenda. I've saved all your remarks about Ed=20 Applewhite and look forward to publishing them someday. I want the whole world to know what a creep this MSM turned out to be. >It is not fair for you to slander Allegra for her integrity is much = deeper and >on a much greater agenda than your little axis can spin. Take your = place Please find where I've slandered Allegra, before you post this=20 irresponsible nonsense. I've communicated directly and responsibly my disappointment with what happened to the BFI website, after Kiyoshi and I created it from scratch. Nothing. For a year at lay fallow. Nor is it changing much today. Then came the fund raising letter=20 asking $50,000 dollars to do what volunteers had already done for=20 free. All talk and no walk. Allegra knows what "responsibility"=20 means -- nothing to do with burden. Her choice to keep the BFI=20 under family control as a toy for the grandson Jaime. She lives=20 with the consequences, just as I do for my actions. I'm as=20 accountable as anyone -- as are you. >If you say your sorry, it will all be all right. >the universe works very mysteriously. >If you lighten your load you can spin faster >with more area to have with your inertia for humanity. >Good luck! MSM I don't need your advice on how to conduct my affairs. Go peddle your cheap crap elsewhere, sir. I'm not buying any of it, knowing that it comes from you. Kirby PS: For more on MSM as Bucky's worst student ever, see: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind9904&L=3Dgeodesic&O=3D= A&P=3D6896 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:57:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby FQU! you have know idea how stupid you are. it is a shame and pity, as Allegra states you just turned on the her and the institute. You are the one that sold out! You want to make a flame out of your ego mania. Your integrity is worn from your insults to me. I have nothing to loose with telling the truth. I took LSD. I smoked dope in Fuller's office. I took silicone with marshall mc cluens son on the barge with bill perk as the professor. I stole books from the library and Bucky forgave me. I have been a drug addict and stopped because Bucky proved to me i was wrong. I have mad many mistakes and learned You , you have the worst of all mistakes selfishness. Power trip out of control. Hitler of computers. You take war on the sacred, My ideas of unitivity you can not say why I am wrong. You attack me because you hate those that are in control of things that you can't. You are a power ego maniac. You could be respected but you choose the darth vader side. You are stupid to say the least and I love you for what else can on do but forgive you for you know not what you do. I love you. Michael S. Mitchell Ed knows how rude he is. Jay knows how arrogant he is. Who else do you want to know. You are just plan selfish. Power maniac. Your a sour military brat. most likely a bad child hood. Sorry old man! god bless. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:01:51 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Mike Mitchell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Medard Gabel wrote: > Hello Michael, > It was good to hear from you. You have an Internet connection on the boat? > That's pretty cool. > Is Gail in Hawaii? If she has email, please forward her address; I would like > to say "Hi". > Give my greetings to Bruce! Good luck on your bus service--if you still want > to do it, that is. Lots of things can change in 6 years. > Thanks for all the good vibes. > Love, > Medard > > Michael S. Mitchell (by way of wgi@worldgame.org (World Game Institute)) wrote: > > > > Congratulations on toby and his brother. > > You have made us all rethink or lives with this design. > > You practice what you speak. > > thank you for being my friend. > > Michael S. Mitchell > > > > Check out my new site? > > I am working on it. > > http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html > > > > Bruce just bought a new home out in the country here in LA. > > I am helping him move in. > > I bought the boat from him and still live on the boat. > > The best way to live for me. > > Give my regards to your family and grace be with you > > always. MIKE > > > > I received an e-mail from Allegra the other day she seems > > to be doing fine. If you know anyone that can help me make > > the dome in C'dale into a park let me know. I need 57K > > from a donor and the donor can get it all off his or her taxes. > > I am trying to get this through the Alumni Assoc. SIU? > > I talked to Gail about 5 months ago she is OK and has > > a son. She said, " Aloha." > > > > You WG site is much more impresive with this first page of the > > Square of money and where we are with this money thing. > > I am wanting to try and write a bucky book from > > my point of view and sell the dome and get some solar cells > > for the boat and move to Catalina and just write for a few years. > > I am going to get a wind mill and convertor and just live off an anchor. > > > > Bruce and I may have another bus license soon we applied for 22 buses > > to go to disneyland 6 years ago and it is just now being decided. > > Take good care and always think of me as a friend and I will be very > > happy. > > Bucky would be very proud of you and I am as well just to know you. > > Mike. Say Hello to Ed Schlossberg if you see him. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:05:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: Quantum-Geometry and Physics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bonnie DeVarco wrote: > Dear John, > > I cannot tell you how much I agree!!! > > Bonnie > > John Mac Cosham wrote: > > > Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > > > > In a nut shell smaller is just that smaller of > > > what is larger. Simple as that. > > > > In relationship to my letter the above is all that makes sense to me. > > > > I am actually trying to introduce Tell Anderson's work who now in my opinion has > > carried Synergetics farther then Bucky. He's picked up the ball and run with it, > > creating a cardboard modelling system and a text that introduces geometric > > modelling to quantum physics. We can model a nucleus with polyhedra made from A and > > B modules. Multiply the number of protons the element by 120 and that is the > > amount of quanta modules that is needed in the model. It can have a void. > > So for instance oxygen 16 is a three frequency cube with a 24 module > > tetrahedral void. > > I consider this the most exciting stuff I have ever looked into. > > > > dharmraj > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: devarco@cruzio.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:09:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: a question-afs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Mike, > Would you do me a favor since I don't have the time to check myself and write > me exacting when the Carbondale dome was built. > > How are you? Any news on any fronts of your life? > > Much love, Allegra ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:26:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Funny all these big players know me on a first name basis. Fuller has a letter given me saying he has confidence in me. http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html Kirby please keep this on a level of truth. You want to have war with those that you have no business working against. YOU HURT YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS AND YOUR FUTURE. No your answer has no questions. It is a fact your out of order to state what you do. To fight against the truth. Your a sophomore in the Fuller arena. stop making things difficult for others. Say you are sorry for all your insults and take your place. Michael S. Mitchell Unitivitist Buck stated think for your self. Try it with out selfishness some time. that is what Unitivity is. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:11:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Hello! again Michael S. Mitchell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Michael, > > Just catching up with a holiday backlog of email. Is this communication > addressed to me? I have some papers of yours in all probablity, but > don't recall the one you describe. This year I plan to sort out my > archives and will be happy to keep your query in mind, > > What are my "book reports" that you refere to? Perhaps some other Ed > > With good wishes, Yrs, > > Ed Applewhite ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:19:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: Hey Kiyoshi! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kiyoshi Kuromiya wrote: > Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > > > Kiyoshi, thank you for the tea tip, I am going to order this when I can find it. > > What size did or may I order it and how much, where, any address? > > Hu-Kwa Tea is available exclusively from Mark T. Wendell Importer, PO Box 1312, West > Concord, MA 01742. According to their 1996 catalog, 14 oz in hinged-lid tin caddy, > $15.75; 1 oz, $16.50; 1/2 oz, $11.25; 25 tea bags, $4.50. Sorry, for off-topic > posting. > --Kiyoshi Kuromiya > > --- > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 00:48:20 -0500 Reply-To: coolbear@earthlink.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jonathan Thompson Subject: Clarification of my Re: What the World wants posting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am I homophobic? Well, depends upon what you define as homophobic. I strongly believe that their actions are wrong, and not just on a religious side of the equation. I will neither attempt to coerce one of that sexuality towards my beliefs or allow them to coerce my beliefs and actions into doing something I do not believe in. I strongly believe in using force in self defense or the defense of others, but will not pursue physical action against someone not affecting my well being. Enough about that. This list is about the works of Bucky. In a general sense, his works were about doing the ultimate amount of good that one man could do for the general good of the human race. His life was spent in attempting to solve the problems of the world through logic, discovering natural truths and applying them to the advantage of the world, and in general, getting people to think more long term in many ways. Did he pass judgments on the things people did? You bet he did! He pronounced the concept that the world lives in a mode of scarcity as being blatantly false. In order to do that, he pronounced that those who worked within that system of scarcity and the artificial reckoning used there as being wrong. To a banker of the world, he is a four letter word, if they understand what his existence was spent on. The model he disparaged encouraged ruthless behavior that benefited the few and oppressed the majority. In the business world, he was a pariah. I would rather respect someone who retains their beliefs and will fight appropriately for them than someone who will be swayed by the ways of the world, even if I don't have their beliefs, even if for some reason, I might even hate them. At least you know where they stand, and you can work with that knowledge. Bucky worked on discovering truths about this universe and figuring out ways to use those truths to advantage for the human race as a whole. Not as a single individual for short term gain of one at the expense of many. I have been accused of passing moral judgments on the societies that be. Morals are a set of social rules as determined by consensus that guide a society in interperson interactions and their philosophy of values. Morals determine truths of a society as a whole. A moral system not based on eternal truths that is acted upon will cause the fall of that society, because nature abhors a lie. Truth is eternal and immutable. I would be willing to bet nobody I can find would have anything but passing "You did what? What were you thinking?" reaction to someone who got hit by a train trying to avoid getting stopped at the crossing by avoiding the gates when the train is rapidly approaching your car. It simply is not a wise thing for someone to do, and anyone who is given a license to drive should have enough reasoning to know that playing chicken with trains doesn't always have a happy ending. Therefore, those who play the game of chicken with trains and lose have honestly won their Darwin Award, fair and square. I personally, as a normal human being with emotions can't help but think "Stupid!" while wondering why they put the train crew and the rescue workers through such grief over something that is painfully obvious as being a Bad Thing. In this case, such a person has a relatively limited impact on the rest of society, leaving behind a wake of some number of broken hearts and a bloody corpse and mangled car and train parts to deal with, along with any financial issues with repairing the train, the cargo, etc. that are quite valuable. The emotional scars may never heal. Where am I going with this? Trains can not stop fast. They can not take a different course, even if you want them to, when they are committed. Someone playing with a train will always lose when it comes to actual contact. For practical purposes, trains are unstoppable. It is simple logic: Play with trains, you run a risk of becoming gristle under the wheels, and earning a posthumous Darwin Award, and not too much sympathy. There is no logic in sympathy for a stupid action that does not require hindsight, and the undesired result when things go wrong are simple to understand, and are understood. Life is so much simpler to avoid a definite foul-up like that than trying to fix it after the fact. I have no debate as to the origin of AIDS. I was aware it came from animals. It resides in certain animals in a benign form. Transgenetic diseases are a fact of this world. However, man-made artifacts do not have a perfect record of working, no matter how good the concept and end design. Even a perfectly designed hammer can be clumsily used and not perform the intended function. don't tempt fate on things known to be a train. Sooner or later, one or more people will get hit by that train, because your car used to get across that track will stall, either because someone flooded the fuiel/air mixture, or some dumb unanticipated mechanical failure or misjudgment of the speed of the train. When it comes to AIDS, it has a very well known set of ways it can spread. The human race as a whole is in that car, and AIDS is a train. Most of the human race is along for the ride, but some wiser-than-thou driver (backseat, whatever) has determined that they will play chicken with the train. Lots of innocent people along for the ride will get hurt if the train hits while they are in the car. The big difficulty is in getting out of the car. The driver has locked it from the front seat, and the passengers don't have access to the controls. Compassion belongs with those who are along for the ride, and end up getting pulped through no choice or fault of their own. Such an illogical driver who knows the rules of the road fully deserves that Darwin Award, and as such, compassion is a waste of emotion on those. A good driver will have compassion for all the passengers who don't want to go on that thrill-kill ride, and will simply avoid the known train-hits-car-car-is-pulped-with-all-passengers-as-bloody-corpses risk. If I offended anyone, you may reply, but I will not apologize for my beliefs not being your beliefs. That would make me a hypocrite. This is what my beliefs are concerning what is best for the human race as a whole. And that is precisely what this list is about. It is not about writing nasty letters cussing others out, like at least one participant did. I do not need to state names, they know who they are. I will let their conscience be their guide as to how to handle this. Remove the comment about kitty litter to reply! spammers.eat.used.kitty.litter.coolbear@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 05:56:47 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell In-Reply-To: <3730A95B.414EACC6@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 5 May 1999 20:26:04 +0000, you wrote: >Funny all these big players know me on a first name basis. Your archival repostings would be of more use to=20 scholars if dated. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 06:08:15 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park In-Reply-To: <3730A2C1.1D091EF3@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 5 May 1999 19:57:53 +0000, you wrote: >Kirby FQU! you have know idea how stupid you are. >it is a shame and pity, as Allegra states you just turned on the >her and the institute. =20 If this is her story then she's keeping a lot from you that she and I both know. But that's none of your business and I'm not about to keep using Geodesic to fight with you (I hear sighs of relief). I have no real interest in your case -- this whole thread has become very boring. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 23:09:53 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: Clarification of my Re: What the World wants posting Comments: To: Jonathan Thompson In-Reply-To: <000501be9784$0c719480$c7e3fea9@DrMindbender.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Your words have no place in this forum. Please leave. - Trevor Blake -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:16:26 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 I agree with you and it all boils to why spend money on war when it all can be spent on what the world wants. THE WHAT THE WORLD WANTS PAGE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PAGE ON THE INTERNET! World Game is the most important idea and tool in the world. This is a fact. Eric Nastav wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 1999, Michael Hissom wrote: > > > Cancer is also preventable, at least to a great extent. I guess it would > > depend on whether you had aids or cancer as to which cure was most important. > > > Cancer is not nearly as preventable. Recent findings suggest a > relationship between some cancer types and viruses. Some of these viruses > can hang-out in your body for quite a while before they cause > any significant damage. > Diet, rest, and excercise can all help prevent cancer. But lots of > healthy people still get it. You just plain don't get AIDS if you don't > get it through unprotected sex or a blood transfusion or a dirty needle. > Lung cancer is probably an exception since a lot of people who get that > have smoked quite a bit. > Cancer is manageable with radiation and chemotherapy. But that's only > after you have actually gotten it. If you are talking about hings like > annual breast examinations, plenty of women who get an annual exam still > get it. They just catch it early. > > Eric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:31:16 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: IHETS Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 May 1999, P. O. Box 2321 wrote: > Jonathan Thompson: > > You have no place in this forum. Leave now. > > - Trevor Blake > Why? Because you don't agree with him? And no , just because one doesn't agree with homosexuality doesn't mean they are homophobes. That's ridiculous. Unfortunately it's a popular way of reacting to someone who doesn't agree with homosexuality. I don't agree with Shiite Muslims. Does that mean I am a Shiitaphobe? Eric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:51:29 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: IHETS Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS In-Reply-To: <372DDE99.3D6D64F8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 May 1999, Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > Aids is more comprehensively important to the whole world than cancer. > Cancer is on the run but aids is devastating Africa. Third world countries > are being killed big time with aids. > Via unprotected sex or blood transfusion? Screening blood supplies isn't all that expensive. If America was really interested in helping Africa overcome AIDS and it was a blood supply problem, they could very quickly and drasticly decrease the number of new AIDS infections. Changing people's attitudes about condom usage and such is much more difficult. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:58:34 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: IHETS Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS In-Reply-To: <23918f98.245fadab@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 May 1999, Michael Hissom wrote: > Cancer is also preventable, at least to a great extent. I guess it would > depend on whether you had aids or cancer as to which cure was most important. > Cancer is not nearly as preventable. Recent findings suggest a relationship between some cancer types and viruses. Some of these viruses can hang-out in your body for quite a while before they cause any significant damage. Diet, rest, and excercise can all help prevent cancer. But lots of healthy people still get it. You just plain don't get AIDS if you don't get it through unprotected sex or a blood transfusion or a dirty needle. Lung cancer is probably an exception since a lot of people who get that have smoked quite a bit. Cancer is manageable with radiation and chemotherapy. But that's only after you have actually gotten it. If you are talking about hings like annual breast examinations, plenty of women who get an annual exam still get it. They just catch it early. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:14:35 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: IHETS Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS In-Reply-To: <58391c48.245fc461@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 May 1999, Michael Hissom wrote: > Who gave you the keys to the morality of the world? The vast majority of > cancer could be prevented by people not doing things they shouldn't. Please elaborate on this. I think a lot of doctors would be interested to hear this. In fact so would a lot of people who've had cancer. I'm not > qualified to say what the world wants but I know the world doesn't need > arrogant judgmental people like you. A great many people have gotten many > diseases because they were doing something that in hind sight caused the > disease. Actually, what he said about certain acts being against most major religions is true. Morality is much more practical thatn people think. I am married, and am faithful to my spouse, but not everyone can or > would want to conform to my idea of what is right or wrong. "Judge not least > ye be judged" I don't think he'd mind at all if you judged him. Have compassion, disease is not a moral judgment, aids didn't > come on the scene because of some decree from heaven. I don't think that's what he said. It was spread to humans > from chimps through the "bush meat trade", people cutting roads into the rain > forest allowed the wholesale slaughter of animals that had only rarely been > killed for food, the presence of infected meat and sharp instruments allowed > blood to blood contact. Actually here's a lot of evidence against that theory. AIDS by the standards of a typical virus is very weak. It's also similar to hepatitis. Some think it's an engineered virus. Typically viruses than can infect mutliple species are VERY rare. Typical viruses are species-specific. AIDS is by no means a "typical disease". > localized disease. Changes in morality has nothing to do with it, exposure of > humans to viruses from places and animals formally limited by isolation has > everything to do with the spread of many diseases, aids, ebola, even some > cancer is suspected to be caused by viruses. Yes, but for one bacteria aren't species-specific like viruses are. If you think about how a virus works it makes sense for them to be species-specific. An individual virus attaches itself to a cell and injects its genetic material into the cell(mRNA or tRNA I think). This genetic material goes to the nucleus, which is like the brain of the cell. The nucleus and the genetic material there tell the cell what to do. The virus's genetic material basically sabotages the cells production and uses it's genetic material to tell the cell to produce viruses. Bacteria on the other hand are not species specific. Ebola for instance is a bacteria. It CAN be spread by animals to us. Placing a moral judgment on > disease of any kind only serves to cruelly stigmatize those that are unlucky > enough to contract the disease. > Getting AIDS has very little to do with luck. Unfortunately. What he was saying about morality is generally what a large amount of people on the earth claim to believe. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc. If you disagree then disagree. There are plenty of people who are going to judge you. If you don't like it it's usually best, I've found to ignore them or humor them. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:34:55 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess all the people that insist that getting aids is the fault of the person who gets it for being immoral, stupid, or evil need to remember not to breath if and when an airborne version of ebola breaks out. It would be just like playing tag with a train, of course not breathing might get to be a bummer after a relatively short time. I guess smokers do not deserve medical treatment when they come down with cancer or someone who drinks alcohol should just fold up his tent and die when cirrhosis of the liver starts. And then there are all the ills associated with the consumption of red meat, seafood, chemical food additives, not to mention the people with genetic predisposition to various diseases. I guess we could just do a gene check and eliminate everyone who is inferior in some way. Wait! I think someone already tried that. Of course we could do it better now that the secretes of the human genome is opening up! Moon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:36:39 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shiitaphope? It's almost too tempting. Moon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:49:53 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you want information on how to prevent cancer ask your doctor, I'm sure he is already well aware of many of the suspected causes. I guess Egyptian mummies with aids antibodies were part of a government conspiracy. If you want to spout mindless conspiracy theories please join one of the news groups that believe that reptilian aliens live under Denver International Airport. Aids has been around far longer than our ability to create diseases. The species that aids exist in without doing harm just happens to be one of the animals that we share many viral diseases with. You need to go back to disease school, Ebola is indeed a virus, a very nasty one, but still a virus. Yes, a great many of the worlds religions claim to have a strangle hold on what is right and what is wrong, I guess that is why they all seem to want to kill each other from time to time. Nothing like demonizing your opponents religion to work up a killing fervor. Moon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:52:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have only had my computer for 4 months or so. I do not want to flame any more attack the message not the messenger. FINI! Kirby Urner wrote: > On Wed, 5 May 1999 20:26:04 +0000, you wrote: > > >Funny all these big players know me on a first name basis. > > Your archival repostings would be of more use to > scholars if dated. > > Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:58:08 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try working for the spirit of Bucky as part of the human family and leave the attacks to each individual and stop trying to play politics with your computer skills. I am talking of the way the universe works and make an artifact for humanity the Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park along with the city and the university of Southern Illinois. So please help make the park a reality it will hurt no one. http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 18:08:29 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park In-Reply-To: <373167B0.FF068CAB@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 6 May 1999 09:58:08 +0000, you wrote: >Try working for the spirit of Bucky as part of the human family >and leave the attacks to each individual and stop trying to >play politics with your computer skills. =20 You call it "playing politics", I call it finding out who my true friends might be. You are definitely not one of them. >I am talking of >the way the universe works and make an artifact >for humanity the Buckminster Fuller Memorial >Park along with the city and the university of Southern Illinois. >So please help make the park a reality it will hurt no one. You don't need my help. Best wishes recruiting others to=20 your team. I hope to avoid any collaborative relationships with you, if at all possible (it's a big world, shouldn't be difficult). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:15:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Depleted Uranium <> Brian Hutchings 06-MAY-1999 14:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us wow, a real answer. so, as with plutonium & her brutalization of Ronny Reagan (oops; Caldicott's), the very length of the half-life makes it comparitively safe, say, if it's in you; there is a trade-off, as with the radioactivity of cesium-137, with a half-life of only weeks, you can let the cows bak to pasture, and drink the milk (not done at Chernobyl, because of KGB misfeasance, although the cancers therefrom were still just a blip on the gieger- counter). certainly, in the amounts to be encountered "in the field", as dust from armor-piercing rounds etc., and because of its great weight, it is hardly going to "penetrate" through the background radiation, wherever. now, to say that "the actinide series is toxic", is not to say any thing about U-238's chemical properties, which are quite wide-ranging in that series; eh?... and, still, the probable exposures are miniscule, evn e in so small a country (of course, I'm not gunning for the "new" NATO doctrine, but gunning at'em .-) thus quoth: Ionizing radiation (from radioactive materials) is bad for living tissue, especially animals. There is no low-level point below which there is no damage; just a level below which the probability of measurable damage is so, what is your source for this assumption?... the methodology, as usen by the EPA et al, is called "linear dose-response", which is merely that assumption, applied graphically. that it's strictly untrue as a "law" (even if there may be some toxin which produces one of its effects so-linearly) is shown by decades of research, since "Henry Stimson dropped the Bomb on Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, two", over the head of MacArthur and most of his other advisors. (and poeple wonder why, we hate the brutish umpire !-) here is the text of yesterday's rejected continuation of this thread: Subject: [Q-P] Fwd: Potential disaster in Europe <> Brian Hutchings 05-MAY-1999 10:47 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ... and the same applies, with a bit more concern, to "blowing up a nuke lab"; nuclear radiation is the single-most studied medical phenomenon, since Secretary of War Stimson went over MacArthur's head, to bomb the Hell out of Hiroshima, "and Ngasaki, two", including the massive Chinese longitundinal study, and the rather minor after-effects of Chernobyl -- in spite of the hype! --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 23:50:39 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Depleted Uranium In-Reply-To: <199905062115.OAA02477@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > here is the text of yesterday's rejected continuation of this thread: > Subject: [Q-P] Fwd: Potential disaster in Europe Rejected probably because Q-P wisely permits only 3 posts per=20 day per subscriber. Your analysis of the DU literature verges on the incoherent,=20 as per usual. Many on Quaker-P have done their homework,=20 and their sources extending beyond your exceedingly narrow=20 range. At the very least, the DU pushers evidence hypocrisy, as their own inhouse protocols for dealing with such ordinance=20 bespeaks a fear of its possibly unknown side-effects. Your posts to Quaker-P have constitute something of an expose -- not all are familiar with the convoluted twists and turns of your switchback syllabus. I've been responding to requests for more background from the=20 more curious, being something of an expert on LLR by now=20 (probably by now I know more than you re his school of thought). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 19:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: coolbear@earthlink.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jonathan Thompson Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a substantial misunderstanding on your part with what I was communicating. Cancer affects the human race as a whole only in the sense that anyone has some chance of getting it, whether through genetic predisposition or swimming in a vat of carcinogens, or an unhealthy lifestyle in regards to diet and exercise, or lack thereof. However, cancer is not something someone can spread by interperson contact. If people could contract cancer just by being around those who had it, the world would be in a lot worse shape than now. Cancer is not universal in cause or understanding on how to prevent it. The distinct difference is that it affects INDIVIDUALS ONLY. The predisposition to developing cancer may be genetic in nature, but it is not an absolute guarantee. Cancer is a disease that acts on individuals, and does not pollute the populace as a whole. AIDS can. The manner in which AIDS is spread is (as far as the scientists claim) very well understood. It requires appropriate bodily fluid contact. Being around someone with AIDS does not mean everyone else will catch it. It is a lot more innocent in terms of how easily it is spread than the common cold, it is much easier to avoid AIDS than it is to avoid a cold. I never stated that all those who have AIDS have done something that might fall under the guise of some immoral action. I did state that AIDS would die off as a disease that affects a very large population if certain simple practices were followed, which simply happen to be considered morally right under a lot of systems of morality. Most likely, there would still be the isolated case, but the number would soon become so small that most of the human race would forget about it. It would most likely be localized to the area where it started, and would fall under the category of very rare diseases mentioned in medical text books. A thousand years later, even if no cure was found (which is not a complete guarantee that one will be found. We still don't have a cure for the common cold!) it would be a footnote in history. The "certain simple practices" simply means saying "no" to doing certain things (not including getting blood transfusions, don't misinterpret there, please) that have risks of contracting the virus. Morals are basically rules describing what is considered being faithful to society and other people as a whole. I might be going out on a limb stating that almost all moral codes consider lying and deception as being immoral, and counterproductive to society and individuals as a whole. No matter what your religious persuasion is or is not, deception is disloyalty to truth, and truth is immutable and eternal. Go back to the days of elementary where you most likely heard "Cheaters never prosper" or some similar saying. A society that is disloyal to truth for a long enough time will fall. The truth is that there is not a 100% certain way that AIDS or other such intimate-contact diseases can be completely protected against by any other means than not placing your trust in chance. The real problem is not those that knowingly engage in that risk taking and pay for it later. The real problem is that someone will trust that they are statistically safe, either because they claim they are, or don't care enough to tell them. Innocent people die as a direct result of disloyalty and a lack of commitment. This lack of commitment is counterproductive for the whole human race. Period. Remove the comment about kitty litter to reply! spammers.eat.used.kitty.litter.coolbear@earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael Hissom > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 11:35 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS > > > I guess all the people that insist that getting aids is the fault of the > person who gets it for being immoral, stupid, or evil need to remember not to > breath if and when an airborne version of ebola breaks out. It would be just > like playing tag with a train, of course not breathing might get to be a > bummer after a relatively short time. I guess smokers do not deserve medical > treatment when they come down with cancer or someone who drinks alcohol > should just fold up his tent and die when cirrhosis of the liver starts. And > then there are all the ills associated with the consumption of red meat, > seafood, chemical food additives, not to mention the people with genetic > predisposition to various diseases. I guess we could just do a gene check and > eliminate everyone who is inferior in some way. Wait! I think someone already > tried that. Of course we could do it better now that the secretes of the > human genome is opening up! > > > Moon > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 19:46:44 -0500 Reply-To: coolbear@earthlink.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jonathan Thompson Subject: Re: Clarification of my Re: What the World wants posting In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a list for the purpose of open discussion of how to benefit the entire human race. You have neither the legal or moral right to banish those from discussing their ideas regarding this matter, even if you do not agree with the ideas of others. If Bucky simply crawled under a rock when people disagreed with him, you woudn't even be cussing me out under your breath right now (at least, not on this list, I don't pretend to be able to determine what a reality without someone would be like). I am stating that my words DO have a place in this forum. You simply don't like what I have to say. I would be corrupt if I believed in something but refused to back it up with actions to support my beliefs. You are not a moderator of this list. End of discussion, I will not leave a forum simply because someone does not like my views. In fact, I will challenge those who dislike my views to convince me to change my views to their liking until we are in agreement, but I can safely state there are a lot of things I believe in you will not convince me to change my views in, but you are welcome to try! Remove the comment about kitty litter to reply! spammers.eat.used.kitty.litter.coolbear@earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of P. O. Box 2321 > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 1:10 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Clarification of my Re: What the World wants posting > > > Your words have no place in this forum. Please leave. > > - Trevor Blake > > -- > http://www.box2321.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:23:54 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Fwd: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_6c2798fa.2463a8ba_boundary" --part1_6c2798fa.2463a8ba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This one seemed to have been left out also. Moon --part1_6c2798fa.2463a8ba_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Moontanman@aol.com From: Moontanman@aol.com Full-name: Moontanman Message-ID: <6c2798fa.24631f17@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:36:39 EDT Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Shiitaphope? It's almost too tempting. Moon --part1_6c2798fa.2463a8ba_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:23:01 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: Fwd: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_6b9cd7ae.2463a885_boundary" --part1_6b9cd7ae.2463a885_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For some reason this message didn't get posted, so here it is again. Moon --part1_6b9cd7ae.2463a885_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Moontanman@aol.com From: Moontanman@aol.com Full-name: Moontanman Message-ID: <6b9cd7ae.24632240@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:50:08 EDT Subject: Re: WHAT THE WORLD WANTS To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 If you want information on how to prevent cancer ask your doctor, I'm sure he is already well aware of many of the suspected causes. I guess Egyptian mummies with aids antibodies were part of a government conspiracy. If you want to spout mindless conspiracy theories please join one of the news groups that believe that reptilian aliens live under Denver International Airport. Aids has been around far longer than our ability to create diseases. The species that aids exist in without doing harm just happens to be one of the animals that we share many viral diseases with. You need to go back to disease school, Ebola is indeed a virus, a very nasty one, but still a virus. Yes, a great many of the worlds religions claim to have a strangle hold on what is right and what is wrong, I guess that is why they all seem to want to kill each other from time to time. Nothing like demonizing your opponents religion to work up a killing fervor. Moon --part1_6b9cd7ae.2463a885_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 20:22:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: R. Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A true friend tells you the truth about yourself from their point of view. In that respect I am your friend. If you and I can not agree and we can see bucky for the real worth that lies with the youth and the future how do you expect the rest of the world to understand if you and I can not be friends. I as a unitivitist unite all events. That includes you. I am willing to be your best friend. That is the difference in you and I. You get off on being hateful, I want to communicate about the way the universe works and make artifacts that will farther the species. You want to be head of a class and copy the book word for word. That is all right but why try and stop my artifact of the dome being a park, and not talk about why unitivity and conservation of entropy is not possible as a theory. Why not just focus on that and not start calling names and attacking. Because you are at an axis crunch. You refuse to spin in your place. Just be an average person and talk about the facts and ideas not war of words for self gain. Enough that is all I as well have to say until you start it again in another week or so. If you see me delete just. IT IS YOUR LOSS. I have at least 20 years of Fuller training over you. I have a lot of respect for you. Then you attack me not my ideas and it all turns into cubes. Maybe someone can learn from or communication that is why I do this foolish squabbling. To allow others another point of view, that the BFI is a very good artifact and that you have no right to put it down along with the his family. I am selling the dome to make an artifact for humanity. I will take 57,000 dollars. It will be appraised after being put on the historical registry inwhich WILLIAM PERK has stated he will do if I have a buyer. This will raise the donation price to around at least 120K to 500K. This can then be donated to the City plan that has already been adopted to make the Buckminster Fuller Memorial Park. There is an office building near the empty block next to the dome that will be made into a show and tell of Bucky's work. Allegra will help with the archive on these shows for the town and the university. The dome will be taken under the park service and maintained by donations and it will become a bread and breakfast place for dignitaries and visitors to the campus and city. The tax deduction is 40% of the total appraised donation of the property at the time of the donation. This means the donor will have from 60K to a 250K write off their taxes. This is better than giving the money to war for more bombs. The park will be used as a calling card for the city and the university as well as the donor. We hope to have this done this year before July 4, so it can be dedicated in one year on Bucky's birthday and Anne's anniversary for marriage the year 2000. Is this so bad a plan kirby. Is this not an artifact for humanity. Is this not good for us all? http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html CHERYL GILBERG OF COLDWELL BANKERS WILL MAKE THE TRANSFER OF THE PROPERTY TO THE NEW BUYER OR BUYERS. All we need is the donor that will make the tax break and put the dome into history. It is rented for 600 per month untill it is sold? and the taxes are 1400 per year and the 60K insurance policy is 360 dollars a year. I have it paid off now complete. Kirby Urner wrote: > On Thu, 6 May 1999 09:58:08 +0000, you wrote: > > >Try working for the spirit of Bucky as part of the human family > >and leave the attacks to each individual and stop trying to > >play politics with your computer skills. > > You call it "playing politics", I call it finding out who my > true friends might be. You are definitely not one of them. > > >I am talking of > >the way the universe works and make an artifact > >for humanity the Buckminster Fuller Memorial > >Park along with the city and the university of Southern Illinois. > >So please help make the park a reality it will hurt no one. > > You don't need my help. Best wishes recruiting others to > your team. I hope to avoid any collaborative relationships > with you, if at all possible (it's a big world, shouldn't > be difficult). > > Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 04:14:46 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Clarification of my Re: What the World wants posting In-Reply-To: <000101be9823$151493e0$c7e3fea9@DrMindbender.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >does not like my views. In fact, I will challenge those who dislike my = views to >convince me to change my views to their liking until we are in = agreement, but I >can safely state there are a lot of things I believe in you will not = convince me >to change my views in, but you are welcome to try! I don't know or care what your beliefs are (I'm skipping all these AIDS-related posts) but certainly any subscriber has the right to ask another to "Please leave". But then a subscriber may choose to ignore such a request. No harm done, either way. Kirby PS: If Trevor thinks you should leave, that's usually enough for me. I'll plan to skip your posts (but of course you may keep on posting up a storm). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 20:43:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Clarification of my Re: What the World wants posting Comments: To: coolbear@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with mr. Thompson. We are put on earth to argue. this is the reason we were put here together on Space ship earth. To put your weight on the spin to make it balance out to the truth. No one has a right to stop someone from voting, if you wish to delete that is you minds eye and vision. Go for it@ I think aids and cancer are very much the band width of this forum. The bucky idea is to be comprehensive. this is not just dome ville. this is bucky ville. The most important list in the whole universe. THIS IS THE SPOT> RIGHT HERE> THIS IS IT> THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS< WE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD RIGHT HERE< GET IT NOT IS OUT< IT IS US OR NO BODY ELSE> THIS IS IT! The more we talk on this list the greater the chances of understanding the critical path of the human specie. It is a matter of time and it will be front page everyday all over the world. When the emergencies happen they will say where do we go from here. This is it. world game the Geo. list, that is it. the syn list, the bucky sites. the bucky people are the only ones that can help. that is us. so lets sget that in our heads deep. We are the real great society. we are the rainbow baboons of the future. we are the future for all the children. we are the best shot they have. we are it! Let keep doing it until we are blue in the face. For it will work./ the world will work some day if we keep working at it. These average educated idiots will wake up all over the world and say hey! lets not blow the world up. lets teach world game in the schools, lets not pollute. Bucky once stated he had a new name for the planet PollutO. For the pollution we put out. The real pollution is the educational system. WHAT A RACE No wonder they are all going crazy. There is no future in the schools. Just pay me and I will sit in this seat and go home. Get the money! that is all it is. get the money. WHERE IS FULLER'S MAP< WHERE IS THE LOVE FOR HUMANITY< WHERE IS THE TRUTH IN THE SCHOOLS> learn to read what. about wars after wars after wars. On how to cheat your fellow man out of a job. THE BETTER YOU ARE EDUCATED THE MORE PEOPLE WILL STARVE BEFORE YOU DO> Join the army not go to school get it over with and kill everyone in sight. What a world we have to give our children. this is why i do not have any. Why put them through this mess. I can not cheat enough people out of a job to afford children so why try. I do not have the heart. soap box tilted over, bye./ Jonathan Thompson wrote: > This is a list for the purpose of open discussion of how to benefit the entire > human race. You have neither the legal or moral right to banish those from > discussing their ideas regarding this matter, even if you do not agree with the > ideas of others. If Bucky simply crawled under a rock when people disagreed > with him, you woudn't even be cussing me out under your breath right now (at > least, not on this list, I don't pretend to be able to determine what a reality > without someone would be like). > > I am stating that my words DO have a place in this forum. You simply don't like > what I have to say. I would be corrupt if I believed in something but refused > to back it up with actions to support my beliefs. You are not a moderator of > this list. End of discussion, I will not leave a forum simply because someone > does not like my views. In fact, I will challenge those who dislike my views to > convince me to change my views to their liking until we are in agreement, but I > can safely state there are a lot of things I believe in you will not convince me > to change my views in, but you are welcome to try! > > Remove the comment about kitty litter to reply! > spammers.eat.used.kitty.litter.coolbear@earthlink.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of P. O. Box 2321 > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 1:10 AM > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Clarification of my Re: What the World wants posting > > > > > > Your words have no place in this forum. Please leave. > > > > - Trevor Blake > > > > -- > > http://www.box2321.com/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:12:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Clarification of my Re: What the World wants posting Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TO TALK TO SOME PEOPLE IS LIKE TALKING TO A WALL BUT A WALL YOU CAN WRITE ON THESE GUYS JUST WANT TO HEAR THEIR OWN WORDS NO ONE ELSES> I am talking about Kurby and Trver! They own the world haven't you heard. they are the fuller elite. the real ivy boys, here we are so honored to be in their eyes to be seen by there spoiled brains to articulate their insults upon. we are so blessed to be scorned my them for we are angels to have had one blink of their passions, oh how great they are. Kirby Urner wrote: > >does not like my views. In fact, I will challenge those who dislike my views to > >convince me to change my views to their liking until we are in agreement, but I > >can safely state there are a lot of things I believe in you will not convince me > >to change my views in, but you are welcome to try! > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++^^^^^^^^ I agree with what he states not about aids but about communication.AIDS WOULD BE MUCH WORSE IF WE DID NOT COMMUNICATE AND THAT IS THE ONLY REASON IT IS BEING FOUGHT BACK FOR PEOPLE LIKE CRITICAL PATH> KIYOSHI KUROMIY THIS FIGHT IS MORE THAN JUST AIDS IT IS FOR EDUCATION ITSELF> IN THAT WAY I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE>The way to fight aids I would ask Kiyoshi he has more experience and knows the truth deeper than any of us I would think, I do not know. But to demand for someone to leave the way trevor does mr. Thompson and KIRBY does me off his synlist. I think they are pompous asses to do so to say the least. To try and change views is to seek the truth and that is the reason for all of us to collaberate with kindness. the what the world wants front page and the 18 topics are a great design to get in one list. I VOTE FOR THEM ALL. YES! > I don't know or care what your beliefs are (I'm skipping all these > AIDS-related posts) but certainly any subscriber has the right to > ask another to "Please leave". But then a subscriber may choose > to ignore such a request. No harm done, either way. > > Kirby > > PS: If Trevor thinks you should leave, that's usually enough for > me. I'll plan to skip your posts (but of course you may keep on > posting up a storm). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:46:17 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Hissom Subject: RE-WHAT THE WORLD WANTS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All the information you want about preventing cancer can be obtained by asking your doctor, I'm sure he is aware of all the known and suspected causes of the many diseases called cancer. I guess Egyptian mummies that were found to have the aids antibodies were part of the government conspiracy. If you want to spout mindless conspiracy theories please post them to one of the groups that believe that reptilian aliens live under the Denver International Airport. Aids has been around a lot longer than our ability to create new diseases, the fact that about one percent of men of European decent are genetically immune to aids indicates that it once ravaged that area of the world thousands of years ago. The species that aids exists in without causing disease also happens to be species that we share many virus diseases with, not only that but many viruses make the jump from other animals that are far removed from us genetically. The flu virus is one example, it natural reservoir being birds and often infecting swine as well as humans. If you think that Ebola is not a virus you need to do some research. It is most definitely a virus, a very nasty one also. Finally to answer your last claim that the worlds religions know what is right from wrong, I agree, that must be why different sects seem to love killing each other so much. There is nothing like demonizing your enemies religion to work up a killing fervor. As far as you being a shiitaphobe, I don't think I'll touch that one, it's just too easy! Moon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:42:19 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell --HA! In-Reply-To: <003d01be9897$861417e0$d4b6e683@oerd.siu.edu.oerd.siu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >the money!! I don't know what happened at BFI with the website but, = when I >heard that you were on the project, I checked out some of the things = that >you have posted to the net and I felt comfortable that the site would be >done well. Now what? Thanks for the feedback Jeffrey. The bfi.org website that's up now was revamped somewhat over a year after I put up the initial one (with tech support from Kiyoshi's critpath.org), as BFI's first webmaster. Only the Community Links=20 page is essentially the same -- because the HTML was all copied=20 from http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/artindex.html=20 My version linked to a lot more of what's current in synergetics,=20 i.e. to the Struck pages (elastic interval geometry). At the new=20 site, you sorta have to dig even to find a link to my 'Synergetics=20 on the Web' -- probably because I'm considered one of "them" (a=20 defector to the enemy camp -- one of many). But that's all ancient history by now. I got the most recent=20 TrimTab and realized (again) that nothing ever changes much with the BFI -- always the same cast of characters behind the scenes. =20 So I don't pay it much attention. Hardly a blip on my screen=20 these days. My dealings with BFI are written up on a back page at my website: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bfihist.html As for what's next, my big push is to get more synergetic geometry phased into the K-12 curriculum, where it very much belongs. You can look over my shoulder at how that phasing-in process is=20 proceeding from my angle, via my Oregon Curriculum Network=20 website: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/ Kirby >--------------------------------------------------------------- >Jeffrey A. Bean jbean@siu.edu >Graduate Student: Agribusiness Economics >Research Assistant: Office of Economic and Regional Development >Southern Illinois University at Carbondale >----- Original Message ----- >From: Kirby Urner >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 12:56 AM >Subject: Re: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell > > >On Wed, 5 May 1999 20:26:04 +0000, you wrote: > >>Funny all these big players know me on a first name basis. > >Your archival repostings would be of more use to >scholars if dated. > >Kirby > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 01:52:59 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Personal.Protocol@NDE.VSNL.NET.IN Subject: do you have a website? **READ THIS ONLY IF YOU HAVE A WEBSITE, THIS IS NOT A MAILING LIST, BUT ONLY FOR ONCE** Dear Friend, Do you have an existing website ? Is your present web address professional ? Is your present web address too long ? Do you dream of having your own domain like address ? Do you have your web address similar to your business ? Do you want to save heavy additional web space charges ? Do you want to cut-off the domain name registration charges ? Does your web address match the status of your company ? Get "http.ms//www.YourName.ind" absolutely FREE with a personalised visitor welcome page, visit : http://208.236.191.42 Easy 2 minutes Signup ! Bye! Admin, Personal Protocol -------------------- E-mail sent using WorldMerge, the fastest and easiest way to send personalized e-mail messages. More information at: http://www.coloradosoft.com/worldmrg 462924 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 11:36:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Responsiblity is an American word Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out what the world wants on the geo list. http://www.worldgame.org/wwwproject/ solo@pitnet.net wrote: > I daresay that nobody but native americans know what the "american" ideal is. If you are talking about the ideals of our "founding fathers" that was > 1. Coming to a country where because the owners were non-whites and non-christians they felt perfectly justified in killing the previous owners and taking anything they wanted. > 2. Coming to a country where the concept of "ownership of land" was ludicrous, where people belonged to the land and took what was needed for survival but no more and were grateful. Replacing this sensible concept with the childish notion "this is mine and I can do anything I want with it include destroy it if I want". > 3. Come to a country where the chance to exploit was so great they bought other human beings and held them in slavery to do their work for them so they could amass fortunes destroying the land. > 4. Brought to this country a notion that women and children are property, that can be beaten into submission and killed if they didnt obey. > The "american ideal" that you are espousing is nothing more than the ideals of the bully, the greedy little child that has not grown up. It is the creed of the selfish child that doesnt want to share what they have, and doesnt want anybody telling them what to do, doesnt want to play by the rules. In the adult version, it is the person that wants power over others, the petty despot who so badly wants to "rule" that like in Yugoslavia that they send their people to be slaughtered in war, leave their women and children to be raped and starved just so they get what they want. > They typical "american" you are talking about is a character disorder, it is a person numb to the pain and anguish of others if it conflicts with what they want out of life, if it involves giving up anything they think is "theirs", that think they are "above" the rules, that the rules dont apply to them. You and others can pretty it up and peddle these ideas as "individual responsibility" and "freedom" but what you are really saying is that lots and lots of women and children, the elderly, the mentally ill, the retarded all get to live in poverty so a few good white men get to accumulate more than you need, rape the earth, rule over their little fiefdom, get to run around with guns in their hands pretending to be "real men". > Thankfully more and more of the world has gotten past their selfish childhood, grown up and become responsible adult societies, responsible for their children, responsible for their handicapped, their old and sick and mentally ill people. Maybe when enough societies grow up there will be an end to war, an end to despoiling the land and understand their responsibility to the environment that belongs to all of us. Then again, maybe scientists will find the "bully" and "selfish" gene and find a way of turning it off for the good of all. > Ingrid > > Your comments below could not be more wrong and antithetical to the American Ideal. > You are paying a price higher than you realize to be "taken care of" by the Federal government and its thousands of agencies that look over you. > Individual freedom requires individual responsibility. If you don't believe that you should consider building a dome in a communist country.......but then again if there are enough people in this country who feel like you (those who rely 100% on the state provided education system) and have not taken enough responsibility to understand the principles that this republic is based on, then creeping socialism surely will take care of you.......... > > end > --------------------------------------------- > solo List manager- Puregold > website: http://lists.aquaria.net/fish/goldfish/puregold/ > Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to DOME at http://www.hoflin.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 11:59:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Bucky & Anne park in carbondale ill. Comments: To: synergetics-l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html I need someone in Carbondale that has an internet connection and a printer to send pictures of how the Dome looked when bucky and anne lived in it so we can, with the new contractor fix the dome as close to the original design as possible for the park design when we find a buyer and donor. I want to send some information to him in carbondale but he does not have an internet site yet?,. Anyone out there that can help? If so give me and e-mail. I have some west systems info for him and original pictures of the original color of the roof and outside paint and fountain. We are spiffing up the dome for the summer project. Historical property registry and park ready soon. thank you :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 12:57:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Responsiblity is an American word <> Brian Hutchings 09-MAY-1999 12:57 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us *saying* that an American is a Yahoo! (tm, Reuters Ltd.) via a such a "niggardly" and one-sided sort of revisionist history, such as portrayed by Zinn, completely absolves the British Empire, and its many Tories, to this very day, in powerful places in the US, including such notorious traitors as Polk and his war with Mexico, or Jackson and his Trail of Tears and general warfare against the Indians. if you cannot make elementary dystinctions, being so-wed to the hyper-PC "history" of a Zinn, yuo don't know what a nation-state really is (supposed to be). thus quoth: > I daresay that nobody but native americans know what the "american" ideal is. If you are talking about the ideals of our "founding fathers" that was --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 13:15:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: "Learn the Truth about the Balkans War" <> Brian Hutchings 09-MAY-1999 13:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us if anyone want's a run-down on the non "BAC" [*] media view, please, come to out townmeeting next Thursday in Canoga Park (CA), at the Clarion Suites Hotel at 7:30 PM. call 323/259-1860 for info. then, on Saturday at 1:30 PM, another townmeeting will feature a woman who was born & raissed in Kosova, and her husband, who is a member of the Danish Kosovar Society, at the Radisson Hotel in Culver City. these are sponsored by the Schiller Inst. --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 13:28:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: "Learn the Truth about the Balkans War" <> Brian Hutchings 09-MAY-1999 13:28 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us 36:851) GOVERNMENT FOREIGN POLICY Brian Hutchings 06-MAY-19 18:20 compare the thing from that Israeli paper, with this from the radio: Michele Steinberg: So, that was part of a longer speech by Clinton, in which he kept coming back to what is the world going to look like once we reach this peace. And we hope that we'll see this in the coming weeks--some dramatic developments. Germany will be holding a conference on the reconstruction of southeastern Europe on May 27th. So, we have a few weeks to actually organize that peace--the sooner the better. The British have not given up. They're trying to use the oil embargo question of Yugoslavia the way they used the ground troops, and go way out front, and try and provoke more animosity with Russia. That's the real target. Papert:: Now, we want to conclude this broadcast with an initial short excerpt from Lyndon LaRouche's keynote of a high-level Bonn conference April 21st. LaRouche's presentation was followed by a dialogue, in which high-level personalities from Russia, China, and India responded to his proposals. The entire transcript of this conference will be featured in the May 7 issue of EIR. [Video clip:] Lyndon LaRouche: Any of us who lived through the World War II experience, and afterward, who know anything about the history of Tito, the military, its training, its capability, its dispositions, knows that that which was proposed as a three-week air war bombing, to bring Milosevic to his knees and solve the problem, was a piece of insanity. It would never work. And it never will work. Either you are going to land war, we're going to give up, or we're going to have to put the thing back on the table with Russia and other powers, and start again to find a political solution. The problem is that this same kind of younger generation, which is involved in this financial speculation on the exchanges, which has none of the sense of the old bankers--you find nothing of the Hermann Abs tradition, or, shall we say, the Alfred Herrhausen tradition, among contemporary bankers who are in positions of power. They're young punks, wild-eyed speculators, who don't know what a real economy is, don't know what real security is. And that's the situation. So therefore, we are now going to--what? We are going toward world war. And when I say "world war," I don't mean a simple world war, relatively speaking, of the type we had in World War I so-called, or World War II. We have in the past years, since 1964 but especially since 1971, with the introduction of the floating exchange rate system, and other measures of a utopian nature, we have destroyed the ability of the world to produce the kind of material capabilities which might be used for war, and which were used to fight World War I and World War II. Those kind of economic capabilities no longer exist. We live in a world where certain superweapons, like thermonuclear weapons, exist. But no one is capable of winning a war in a classical style--not a serious war. Now, what--you go back to St. Augustine on this question, on the question of justified war. It is immoral to start a war, unless it is necessary to fight the war, and unless you can win it! Because if you start a war which even may be justified, which you can't win, what is going to be the result? You're going to get a result like Europe experienced during the middle of the 14th century in the so-called New Dark Age, or the kind of result experienced in Central Europe between 1618 and 1648 in the Thirty Years War, when nobody can win, but nobody knows how to stop the war.... When you unleash conflict, in which you confront nations and other groups of people with an attack where you offer them no escape to safety, you don't allow them to survive by surrendering on terms under which they can survive, and you push them, and you push them, and you fight wars for no good purpose, except almost for pleasure, what you create is a doomsday situation of unstoppable, spreading wars, much like what 1648. So, when Russians speak of the danger of war, even nuclear war, they are not exaggerating. Don't think in terms of classical warfare or some model of World War II. Think in terms of the spread of conflict. Think in terms of the process of the disappearance of entire nation-states from the political map in Africa. Think of the ongoing process of spreading of the same disintegration of nation-states in South and Central America. Mexico so far is holding out. Brazil is threatened next. Brazil will explode, if this process continues. Under these conditions, we are creating the possibility of war. Now, the question is: How do you deal with such a situation? Well, we've been pressing in the U.S.--I've been pressing, as part of my campaign and other activities I do--to get the President of the United States to look at this situation in a new way. He hasn't accepted my ideas about what has to be done on the economy yet, though he's talking in that direction, especially in the past couple of days again. But he made a change recently. It is a change which conforms with what I have said. What he said was three things which were important in his speech in San Francisco, as followed up in follow-up speeches later. Number one, that instead of looking at the situation in the Balkans from the standpoint of where is the war going next, ask another question: Where do you go to define the end of the war? approach. It's an approach which any sensible experienced military-strategic specialist would recommend, and some have recommended. Go to the end of war. Define what the end of war must be, and start from there to find the solution to bring about the end of war. This involves some problems. First of all, it is impossible to deal with this situation unless we get at it at root. The root of the situation, which started this particular phase of the process, were the events of last August through October, when a series of decisions were made to go to hyperinflation--which won't work--and to go to a new strategic policy, which also won't work, except to produce chaos. So therefore, unless we remove the starting point of the conflict, we cannot stop the conflict. Now, how do we remove the starting point? Well, it's an obvious way. We have to reorganize the world economy. We have to put the existing bankrupt system, financial system, with its $300 trillion equivalent of unpayable debts and assets, put it through the meat-grinder, in the same way that we've done before in history--that was done, for example, in Germany at the end of the war, in reconstruction, when new funds were brought in, a new deutschemark was created, and the operations at the recommendation of Hermann Abs, supported by certain people in the United States, resulted in the establishment of the Kreditanstalt fuer Wiederaufbau. And that became the model of the so-called "German Economic Miracle" of the 1960s. Papert:: That was an excerpt from LaRouche's opening keynote to a high-level April 21st conference in Bonn, west Germany. That keynote was followed by responses and discussion, as I mentioned earlier, from top-level personalities from Russia, China, and India. We'll be featuring more, or, possibly, the entirety of of this conference in future numbers of "EIR Talks." source: http://www.larouchepub.com/eir_talks/eir_talks_990428.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:31:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Matthew Altaras Subject: HELP! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sorry but I don't care about all the stuff you people talk about. Please tell me how to get off this list ; I don't even know how I got on it. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 20:18:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: HELP! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jump off your computer. Matthew Altaras wrote: > I'm sorry but I don't care about all the stuff you people talk about. > Please tell me how to get off this list ; I don't even know how I got on it. > Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:45:09 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DoctorData@AOL.COM Subject: Re: DAMN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now that's good stuff! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:48:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: DAMN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stop screaming good stuff, at least we have passion over here. Bonnie's thesis is fantastic check it out. http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html DoctorData@AOL.COM wrote: > Now that's good stuff! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:19:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell --HA! Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Kirb. As far as Ed Applewhite is on your side it just shows me how much he brown nosed up to the technology as a glory hog secretary to bucky. I had a lot of respect for Ed until I met him and he insulted a girl in Bucky office calling her a fat file clerk in front of everyone. I and my mother transcribed the first 40 hour lecture of bucky ( Thinking Out loud ) made in the designed department in SIU. Ed latter did this for the ones on the East coast. I he is on your side like you say in this attitude that the BFi should not be held by the family then he has gone off the deep end for selfishness against bucky just as you and all the others that can't bite the bullet that bucky designed the bfi to go to his family which has two extra babies in it by the way. You act as if your EST Erhads training is something to behold above bucky and that you had this along with Allegra and Jamie. They grew from scratch with bucky training them to take this all over and you want to turn over the dingy in the middle of the ocean somewhere because you did not get enough ego axis in the BFI when you were there. I have seen many offices like this have to be as bucky stated when you are in a storm you take down the sail, In The Sail. This is what they had to do to get more fuller children on earth as babies and this is better than archives in my mind. I would rather have Fuller blood on earth than give the archive to The henry ford museum and let you run it there as the webmaster. you are the webmaster al right like a lion tamer webmaster. The first office in carbondale with John Mc Hale, was fantastic./ Naomi Smith was secretary, she thought bucky had a big ego at first then she realized it was she was just ignorant and made the adjustment to see she was working with Leonardo. The board just could not make this adjustment with Allegra and Jamie. It is something that you can not explain about the fuller's they work on an intuitive level way out there. IT PISSES A LOT OF PEOPLE OFF> This is why bucky was kicked out of SIU to a higher place in philli. Then came Tom Turner as head of the office. He died of Cancer working for Mc Donald Douglas. He was a good soul and just could not keep the office at the tempo it should. Before him was Dale Claus. Dale was fantastic and or course Michael Pattera who was a great person that understood what bucky was all about. Brendon Oreagan took over after Tom and made it more of a research and development office, he was there to make the move to Philli. This was when as when the BFI moved to Santa Barbara, that priorities are made and people get there feelings hurt. this can not be helped and you have fanned the flames of this when this move happened here from LA to Santa Barbara. Tony and Bonnie are not the first people to get married while in a Fuller office. The thing is precession allows things to spin off at the same area that it was sweeping out when it spun off. They have done well as far as I can see but when it happens it is crucial and devastating fear to have to move on, it is people like you that make it your business to fan the flames. The board members all had there agendas to get the bfi dissolved not all but people that talked with you did. The fact is bucky gave this to the family the family is growing, why should the family not be considered the main part of the archive, they are blood of bucky and to me this is more archive than all your bull shit blabbering computer politics and list of names that slander them. I do not care what they do before murder it self unless it is you, they are blood archive and this was bucky's design so say you are sorry and get in line and shut out. We have to all work together on this. I hate Bill Perk for what he has done to me with slandering my dome of bucky and Anne's. He has done the same as you do to the fuller family. It is just jealousy. But I will still work with him and i will respect him for he knows not what he does. He is always trying to force me to sell the dome to him cheaper than the home next door that is square and did not belong to bucky. So he can have his life working with the dome. I am going to take the dome and move it and make it a mobil exhibit if someone does not make the park out of it. It hurts when people make karma for you that is not your karma. I was honest and told bill perk who my other buyer was, Tom Fielder. Mr. Perk called him (TOM) last month and talked him out of making the park/ This is what I get for telling him my other buyer. I am glad I was honest it makes for synergy. Maybe I am not suppose to sell the dome, maybe I should leave it to my niece, angela. Maybe this is best? Above you say my integrity HA!, FQU, Kirby- you are a fuller maggot. you can not see that all your Princeton training and high horse attitude gets you nothing in the Fuller camp unless you have love. Love for Fuller's design to make his own blood part of the archive, stupid. This goes for all you other high horse board members and directors that have an ax to bury, including Ed Applewhite. CENTRAL Isotropic ARROGANCE The Snyder's are a great asset to the archives and the history of Fuller. With out the family being a film crew born in there would not be all these wonderful bob snyder films footage of bucky. If any one doughts that bob snyder is not a film great they have a lot to learn. He seems humble and outside but he always makes the art real to the point that you can taste it. The most inspiring artifacts are his much like Vincent Van Gogh he is not seen now for what he is. As Allegra states that a film artists does not make a lot of money and she has put the foundation in to raise 2 children and teach all her life. It is not easy to have done all this and have so much done. The two Bob and Allegra have done there job big time for humanity when this all ends for them, they have lived this and I have watched them from the mid sixties. It is not easy having an army of assholes like you kirby and at times me when I was young like you and want to get involved like the person that went on stage at the centennial and threw the papers in the air. In many ways we all wish we had that passion, Passion that the truth is at hand, passion that this it the most important information on the planet and we want everyone to know now not latter the Fuller is our only chance to make this planet work. Bon and Allegra have done more than we will ever know. SO think of the first daughter that bucky held in his arms as she died and she stated where is my cain daddy. And he forgot to get it for her as she died. He had gone to harvard to get drunk with his old friends or something and Alexandra his first daughter ask him to get her one of those Cain's that have a harvard flag on it. He for got. Now you want to make his second daughter feel like some one forgot her cain, I will not let you do that ass hole. SO go back to your computer keys and pray for your soul. This fuller family is intact and has integrity and I do as well to say so. So fqu! Kirby Urner wrote: > My dealings with BFI are written up on a back page at my website: > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bfihist.html > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Kirby Urner > >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > >Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 12:56 AM > >Subject: Re: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell > > > > > >On Wed, 5 May 1999 20:26:04 +0000, you wrote: > > > >>Funny all these big players know me on a first name basis. > > > >Your archival repostings would be of more use to > >scholars if dated. > > > >Kirby > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:36:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell --HA! Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Urner wrote: nothing ever changes much with the BFI -- always the same cast of characters behind the scenes. > So I don't pay it much attention. Hardly a blip on my screen > these days. > > My dealings with BFI are written up on a back page at my website: > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bfihist.html I Michael S. Mitchell would like to say I am sorry to those of this list that it seems so rude of me to fight back that in which I feel is a must do design to make this list clean for the people to come. Their is a dragon in the garden and that dragon is Kirby. He will miss inform many if this is not done. He will state that the BFI is as he states never changes and everyone should ignore them and see what he has. This is all I am trying to say is do not think this Princeton prince is what he states with Ed Applewhite, Bonnie and her husband, James Baldwin and all the name dropping that he does. The Buckminster Fuller Institute has all of Bucky and Anne's archives because that is the way they wanted it. The archive belongs there. Why? Because the family is also part of the archive and that includes grand children. The sour feelings of doing more with less sometimes people get their feelings hurt that is part of design. I for one feel that the archive is in the hands of the most important part of the archive the family. Mike. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:31:07 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: My integrity Michael S. Mitchell --HA! In-Reply-To: <37380449.82A04882@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 11 May 1999 10:19:53 +0000, you wrote: >Mr. Kirb. > > As far as Ed Applewhite is on your side it just shows me how Michael -- Way too long for me to read this right now, but it's archived,=20 thanks to the Geodesic listserv software. I'll maybe get back=20 to your posts someday and have some more comments. In the=20 meantime, those wishing to read Urner-MSM exchanges already=20 on file have plenty to plough through. =20 I have nothing more to add at this time. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:47:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: POPULATION DENSITIES IN THE WORLD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Reliefweb: http://www.reliefweb.int/mapc/world/wgppycpd.html Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:13:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: WEB SITE STATS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everybody, Sorry for not replying sooner--I've been having email upgrading problems. If anyone wants to get free stats for their web site, I highly recommend http://www.hitbox.com/ . I use them; see http://w101.hitbox.com/Stats?hb=W34903035542 Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 01:07:57 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's some draft lesson planning I've been doing for the Oregon Curriculum Network, posted here for peer review, and for teachers to use in their own classes as they please. Eventually, this will be a web page with graphics and hyperlinks added. Feedback welcome. Kirby Curriculum writer Oregon Curriculum Network http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/ PS: to Syn-Lers and Geodesic subscribers -- note where I'm bridging to our philosophy curriculum from junior high level mathematics. I think it works, what do you think? PPS: the computer language snippets actually work in an Xbase environment. ================================== When racking pool balls, or making a triangle with spheres by other means, you go: * * * * * * * ... * * * In other words, each time you add a row with one more ball in it: 1 2 3 4 ... The accumulation of these balls makes a "triangular number" of balls: 1 = 1 3 = 1 + 2 6 = 1 + 2 + 3 10 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 15 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 ... Which information you might also expresss this way: 1 3 6 10 15 \ / \ / \ / \ / 2 3 4 5 where the 2nd row is a series of "differences" based on the terms in the 1st row. In other words, add the "difference" in the 2nd row to get the next term in the 1st row. So then a question comes up: is there a way to compute the Nth triangular number, where N1=1, N2=3, N3=6, N4=10... and so on? Like, what's N25? What we'd like is some expression where we plug in "25" as a parameter (input value), and get the 25th triangular number as output. We're simply obtaining the sum of consecutive integers in this case. N2 = 3 = 1 + 2 N4 = 10 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 Here's a good place to insert that story about the famous mathematician Johann Carl Friedrich Gauss. The class was misbehaving and the teacher assigned finding the sum of 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 100 as busy work. The young Gauss, already brilliant, wrote two lines and added them: 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 100 100 + 99 + 98 + ... + 1 <-- same 100 terms in reverse --------------------------- 101 + 101 + 101 + ... + 101 Clearly, he reasoned, I'm getting this number 101 in the bottom row 100 times. But that's from adding all the numbers I need twice (the series plus itself). So the number I really want is 1/2 of 100 x 101 = 10100/2 = 5050. But you don't have to go all the way to 100 for this to work, nor must you stop at 100. A more general way of writing the solution is: 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + N N + N-1 + N-2 + ... + 1 <-- same N terms in reverse --------------------------- N+1 + N+1 + N+1 + ... + N+1 where we're adding all consecutive integers from 1 up to N. In other words, we have N+1 added to itself N times, or N x (N+1). But again, that's from adding the series twice (adding it to itself). So the answer we're really looking for is: Sum of N consecutive integers = N x (N+1) / 2 This is a good place to stop and reintroduce SIGMA notation, even if the students haven't seen it before. N --- \ / i = 1 + 2 + 3 ... + N = N(N+1)/2 = (N^2 + N)/2 --- i=1 notice we've tacked some other algebraic equivalents on to the end as well -- good review. So now we have our formula for triangular numbers. We might write it as a computer program this time: function trinumb(term) output = (term^2 + term)/2 return output So if you write: ? trinumb(4) you get: 10 And if you write: ? trinumb(25) you get: 325 ... the answer we were looking for. Now the next thing we want to do is stack triangles of balls to form a growing pyramid or tetrahedron. Tetrahedral numbers will be a series giving the number of balls in each successive tetrahedron, where the "differences" between each term will be the next layer, or next triangular number. In other words: 1 ? ? ? TETRA(N) TETRA(N+1) and so on... \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 3 6 10 15 TRI(N+1) TRI(N+2) It's easy to fill in some of these numbers: 1 4 10 20 35 \ / \ / \ / \ / \ 3 6 10 15 ... This is a good place to stop and visualize the growing tetrahedron of closest packed spheres. We stack fruit this way in grocery stores a lot. During the USA Civil War, cannon balls were stacked this way, and such piles were called "brass monkies". This is a sphere packing arrangement we come back to again and again in mathematics. Each sphere is surrounded by 12 others, if completely surrounded (spheres close to an edge won't have 12 around them). The 12 spheres around a nuclear sphere make a shape called the cuboctahedron (8 triangular faces, 6 square). So now we have the same question about how to computer the Nth tetrahedral number. We'd a like a program where you can just say ? tetnumb(5) and get back 35 And we know what we're looking for is the sum of consecutive triangular numbers. Writing this another way: N --- \ Tetnumb(N) = / Trinumb(i) --- i=1 Of course that's enough information for a looping program right there, taking our previous code and making it accumulate spheres through N loops: function tetnumb(term) output = 0 for i = 1 to term output = output + trinumb(i) endfor return output The above tetnumb function makes use of the already-defined trinumb function. Using this computer program, we can write: ? tetnumb(100) and get back 171700 So the computer is pretty good at simply accumulating the already defined triangular numbers. But it'd be cool to come up with a formula, similar to the one for consecutive integers, which gave a tetrahedral number directly, without having to loop through all the intermediate sums. N --- \ Tetnumb(N) = / Trinumb(i) --- i=1 might be rewritten: N --- \ Tetnumb(N) = / N (N + 1) /2 --- i=1 N N --- --- \ \ = (1/2) { / N^2 + / N } --- --- i=1 i=1 (using the distributive property of addition). This is an interesting expression, because the first summation represents the sum of consecutive square numbers (vs. triangular ones). Like, if you're using balls to make squares, you go: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ... * * * * Written as a series, we have: 1 4 9 16 25 ... and with a 2nd row of "differences" we have: 1 4 9 16 25 ... \ / \ / \ / \ / 3 5 7 9 Notice too that layers of squares may be stacked, just as triangular layers may be. What you get is a growing square-based pyramid (vs. triangle-based), or a "half-octahedron". The sum of consecutive square numbers is therefore the half-octahedral number (one might say). Lets coin the term "meso_oct" because "meso" means "half" or "middle" and we find lots of ancient square-based step pyramids in Meso America. So... ? meso_oct(1) 1 ? meso_oct(3) 14 And: N --- \ meso_oct(N) = / N^2 --- i=1 If we can get a formula for meso_octal numbers (stacks of consecutive squares), then we'll also get a formula for tetrahedral numbers, since our algebraic expression includes the meso_octs as a term. We should stop here and examine the tetrahedral and octahedral packings of spheres. They turn out to be one and the same packing! That's right: if you stack successive squares in a Meso American step pyramid, you are getting the same 12-around-1 cuboctahedral shape for each completely surrounded sphere. The octahedral packing is just another way of "carving out a shape" from the same matrix or lattice of closest packed spheres. By cutting through the same packing differently, you get this alternative view. If we connect the centers of adjacent lattice spheres with rigid members (e.g. metal rods), we get a truss of considerable strength. The inventor Alexander Graham Bell experimented with this structure for towers and kites in the early 1900s. New England Transendentalist R. Buckminster Fuller later named this the octet truss and made it a central concept in his philo- sophical explorations, which he called synergetics. We should mention Gauss again too -- by this time a grown up mathematician -- noting that he's credited for formally proving that this way of packing spheres achieves maximum density for any lattice packing. A lattice is an arrangement you can copy and slide through space and superimpose on itself seamlessly. The question still remained, post-Gauss, whether this packing is the densest overall, when even non-lattice solutions are permitted. A formal proof of this so-called Kepler Conjecture has only recently been proposed. Let's introduce the concept of "frequency" (f) as the number of intervals between adjacent spheres along an edge. This is the same as the number of spheres along an edge, minus 1. * * * * * * * * * * ... * * * * * * * * * * f = 0 1 2 3 ... f = N-1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ... * * * * f = 0 1 2 3 ... f = N-1 In the context of synergetics, Fuller emphasized that the triangular numbers represent the number relationships between objects or events. For example, if you draw lines from E1 to every other event E2, E3... EN, and do so from each of N events, then you will have N * N-1 lines -- having traced over every relationship twice. Given f = N-1, the number of relationships is the triangular number: f(f+1)/2. Synergetics uses the concept of frequency as distinct from the concept of angle. Angles define shape, and a shape may grow or shrink without any of its angles changing. As our tetrahedron grows, its angles stay the same. Only its frequency is changing. Likewise a cuboctahedron formed by successive layers of spheres packing around a nuclear sphere retains its shape. Each successive cuboctahedral layer contains 10*f^2 + 2 spheres, where f is the number of intervals along an edge. Now lets look at the relationship between triangular and square numbers. A triangular number, plus that of the previous frequency, makes a parallelogram or rhombus, with the same number of spheres in it as the corresponding (same frequency) square: * * * * * * * * * * ... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * f = 0 1 2 3 ... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ... * * * * f = 0 1 2 3 ... This means that a square number > 1 is always the sum of two consecutive triangular numbers: Square Triangular 4 3 + 1 9 6 + 3 16 10 + 6 25 15 + 10 ... ... In other words: sqrnumb(N) = trinumb(N) + trinumb(N-1) Or, algebraically: sqrnumb(N) = N(N+1)/2 + (N-1)(N)/2 = (N^2 + N + N^2 - N)/2 = 2N^2/2 = N^2 (as expected) We still haven't found our generic solution for: N --- \ meso_oct(N) = / N^2 --- i=1 We should stop and mention Jakob Bernoulli at this point, as his work gave us a generic way of computing: N --- \ Sum(N,c) = / N^c --- i=1 where N, c are any positive integers. He developed an expansion of this Sum as a polynomial -- a set of terms using rational coefficients and powers of N. From this polynomial expansion, we get his famous "Bernoulli numbers". Ada Byron, daughter of Lord and Lady Byron, and later the Countess Lovelace, is often credited for being the "first computer programmer" because she wrote about how to compute Bernoulli numbers using the mechanical computing device Charles Babbage was designing (but never built, as it's works were too intricate for the machinists of his time). What we're looking for here is a formula for expressing our top row in the following series: 0 1 5 14 30 55 ... \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 1 4 9 16 25 ... \ / \ / \ / \ / 3 5 7 9 ... The top row represents an accumulation of square numbers in a meso_oct packing. Notice that every time we go up a layer, we go up a power. The bottom row increases "linearly" (every term is +2 greater than the one before). The middle row increases "areally" (every term is a 2nd power of N). The top row increases "volumetrically" or as a 3rd powering of N. In other words: meso_oct(N) = A*N^3 + B*N^2 + C*N + D where we need to find the values of A,B,C and D. That's assuming we can express meso_oct(N) as a polynomial -- a reasonable assumption. Let's use some coordinate pairs (N, meso_oct(N)) do solve for A,B,C and D. Here are some valid pairs: (1,1) (2,5) (3,14) (4,30) Substituting for N in our polynomial expansion we get: 1 = A + B + C + D [1] 5 = 8A + 4B + 2C + D [2] 14 = 27A + 9B + 3C + D [3] 30 = 64A + 16B + 4C + D [4] That's enough information to start eliminating variables. It's also a problem we might express using matrix algebra: | 1 1 1 1 ||A| | 1| | 8 4 2 1 ||B| | 5| | 27 9 3 1 ||C| = |14| | 64 16 4 1 ||D| |30| Here's one way to solve for A,B,C,D. Numbers in square brackets refer to equations e.g. 4 = 7A + 3B + C [5] =[2]-[1] meaning equation [5] is derived by subtracting equation [1] from equation [2]. 16 = 37A + 7B + C [6] =[4]-[3] 12 = 30A + 4B [7] =[6]-[5] 13 = 26A + 8B + 2C [8] =[3]-[1] 5 = 12A + 2B [9] =[8]-2x[5] 2 = 6A =[7]-2x[9] A = 1/3 B = 1/2 (substituting A into [9]) C = 1/6 (substituting A,B into [5]) D = 0 (substituting A,B,C into [1]) We can check these results by substituting for A,B,C back into the original equations, and see that they're true. So now we have an expression for: N --- \ meso_oct(N) = / N^2 --- i=1 which is: N --- \ meso_oct(N) = / N^2 = (1/3)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/6)N --- i=1 Recall that we were looking for an expression for tetrahedral numbers as well, and had written: N N --- --- \ \ tetnumb(N) = (1/2) { / N^2 + / N } --- --- i=1 i=1 which expression is equivalent to: tetnumb(N) = (1/2) { meso_oct(N) + N(N+1)/2 } which expression simplifies even further: (1/2) { meso_oct(N) + N(N+1)/2 } = (1/2) { (1/3)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/6)N + (1/2)N^2 + (1/2)N } = (1/2) { (1/3)N^3 + N^2 + (2/3)N } = (1/6)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/3)N So our computer program for tetrahedral numbers may no be written without the looping. Before we had: function tetnumb(term) output = 0 for i = 1 to term output = output + trinumb(i) endfor return output Now we can write: function tetnumb(term) output = (1/6)*term^3 + (1/2)*term^2 + (1/3)*term return output This new tetnumb returns the same results as before (of course). For example: ? tetnumb(100) spits back 171700 Of course we also now have a program for meso_oct, a direct computation using the input parameter: function meso_oct(term) output = (1/3)*term^3 + (1/2)*term^2 + (1/6)*term return output For example: ? meso_oct(6) spits back 91 Which is the result we'd expect, i.e. is the same as: 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2 + 4^2 + 5^2 + 6^2 To summarize, for tetrahedral numbers, we have the following: 0 1 4 10 20 35 56 ... <-- (1/6)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/3)N \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 1 3 6 10 15 21 ... <-- N(N+1)/2 (triangular) \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 2 3 4 5 6 ... <-- N+1 \ / \ / \ / \ / 1 1 1 1 \ / \ / \ / 0 0 0 And for half-octahedral numbers, we have: 0 1 5 14 30 55 91 ... <-- (1/3)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/6)N \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 1 4 9 16 25 36 ... <-- N^2 (square) \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 3 5 7 9 11 ... <-- 2N+1 \ / \ / \ / \ / 2 2 2 2 \ / \ / \ / 0 0 0 These triangles may be built upward to higher numbers of rows of course. For example, we could write: 0 1 2 7 21 51 106 197 <-- equation? \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 0 1 5 14 30 55 91 <-- (1/3)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/6)N It's also possible to keep finding these equations of higher and higher degree. Having a table of Bernoulli numbers handy would shorten this exercise. Also, remember our concept of "frequency", which = N-1 in these cases (the number of intervals between adjacent spheres along the edge of a triangular or square packing). We can substitute f+1 for N in the above equations and simplify, getting: trinumb(f) = (1/2)*f^2 + (3/2)*f + (3/2) tetnumb(f) = (1/6)*f^3 + f^2 + (11/6)*f + 1 sqrnumb(f) = f^2 + 2*f + 1 meso_oct(f)= (1/3)*f^3 + (3/2)*f^2 + (13/6)*f + 1 Thinkers mentioned: Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) -- Kepler Conjecture Jakob Bernoulli (1654-1705) -- Bernoulli numbers Johann Carl Friedrich Gauss (1777-1855) -- densest lattice packing Charles Babbage (1791-1871) -- mechanical calculating device Ada Lovelace (1815-1861) -- Bernoulli numbers program for Babbage device Alexander Graham Bell (1847-1922) -- octet truss structures R. Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983) -- synergetics, angle vs. frequency Major reference: A Study in Sphere Packing by K. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/sphpack.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:07:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > Since all these possible models are on earth and the earth is precessional > to the sun, and all the possible models that can be made are precessional > with what they are made of would it not be more comprehensive to start with > that which is more basic than the formulas of topology and start with the > basics that precession has axis, area sweep out and angle and frequency > is made of the gatherings of volumetric precessional events. > That the age of each student is the amount of circles of the earth around > the sun > that they are aboard space ship earth. This seems more of the basic ideas > to start with not the boring part of infinities of frequencies. This is more > applied > than basic boring topology that one can look up. You failed to > point out that the odd and even rows have a center ball or not. > I think, anyway this is some ideas that I have. Thank you for asking. > Michael S. Mitchell (c) 1999 > > Kirby Burner wrote: > > > Here's some draft lesson planning I've been doing for the > > Oregon Curriculum Network, posted here for peer review, and for > > teachers to use in their own classes as they please. > > > > Eventually, this will be a web page with graphics and > > hyperlinks added. > > > > Feedback welcome. > > > > Kirby > > Curriculum writer > > Oregon Curriculum Network > > http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/ > > > > PS: to Syn-Lers and Geodesic subscribers -- note where I'm > > bridging to our philosophy curriculum from junior high level > > mathematics. I think it works, what do you think? > > > > PPS: the computer language snippets actually work in an > > Xbase environment. > > ================================== > > > > When racking pool balls, or making a triangle with spheres > > by other means, you go: > > > > * * * > > * * * * ... > > * * * > > > > In other words, each time you add a row with one more ball > > in it: > > > > 1 2 3 4 ... > > > > The accumulation of these balls makes a "triangular number" > > of balls: > > > > 1 = 1 > > 3 = 1 + 2 > > 6 = 1 + 2 + 3 > > 10 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 > > 15 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 > > ... > > > > Which information you might also expresss this way: > > > > 1 3 6 10 15 > > \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 2 3 4 5 > > > > where the 2nd row is a series of "differences" based on the > > terms in the 1st row. In other words, add the "difference" > > in the 2nd row to get the next term in the 1st row. > > > > So then a question comes up: is there a way to compute the > > Nth triangular number, where N1=1, N2=3, N3=6, N4=10... and > > so on? Like, what's N25? What we'd like is some expression > > where we plug in "25" as a parameter (input value), and get > > the 25th triangular number as output. > > > > We're simply obtaining the sum of consecutive integers in > > this case. > > > > N2 = 3 = 1 + 2 > > N4 = 10 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 > > > > Here's a good place to insert that story about the famous > > mathematician Johann Carl Friedrich Gauss. The class was > > misbehaving and the teacher assigned finding the sum of > > 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 100 as busy work. The young Gauss, > > already brilliant, wrote two lines and added them: > > > > 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 100 > > 100 + 99 + 98 + ... + 1 <-- same 100 terms in reverse > > --------------------------- > > 101 + 101 + 101 + ... + 101 > > > > Clearly, he reasoned, I'm getting this number 101 in the > > bottom row 100 times. But that's from adding all the numbers > > I need twice (the series plus itself). So the number I really > > want is 1/2 of 100 x 101 = 10100/2 = 5050. > > > > But you don't have to go all the way to 100 for this to work, > > nor must you stop at 100. A more general way of writing the > > solution is: > > > > 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + N > > N + N-1 + N-2 + ... + 1 <-- same N terms in reverse > > --------------------------- > > N+1 + N+1 + N+1 + ... + N+1 > > > > where we're adding all consecutive integers from 1 up to N. > > > > In other words, we have N+1 added to itself N times, or > > N x (N+1). But again, that's from adding the series twice > > (adding it to itself). So the answer we're really looking > > for is: > > > > Sum of N consecutive integers = N x (N+1) / 2 > > > > This is a good place to stop and reintroduce SIGMA notation, > > even if the students haven't seen it before. > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > / i = 1 + 2 + 3 ... + N = N(N+1)/2 = (N^2 + N)/2 > > --- > > i=1 > > > > notice we've tacked some other algebraic equivalents on to > > the end as well -- good review. > > > > So now we have our formula for triangular numbers. We might > > write it as a computer program this time: > > > > function trinumb(term) > > output = (term^2 + term)/2 > > return output > > > > So if you write: > > > > ? trinumb(4) > > > > you get: > > > > 10 > > > > And if you write: > > > > ? trinumb(25) > > > > you get: > > > > 325 > > > > ... the answer we were looking for. > > > > Now the next thing we want to do is stack triangles of balls to > > form a growing pyramid or tetrahedron. > > > > Tetrahedral numbers will be a series giving the number of balls > > in each successive tetrahedron, where the "differences" between > > each term will be the next layer, or next triangular number. > > > > In other words: > > > > 1 ? ? ? TETRA(N) TETRA(N+1) and so on... > > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 3 6 10 15 TRI(N+1) TRI(N+2) > > > > It's easy to fill in some of these numbers: > > > > 1 4 10 20 35 > > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ > > 3 6 10 15 ... > > > > This is a good place to stop and visualize the growing tetrahedron > > of closest packed spheres. We stack fruit this way in grocery > > stores a lot. During the USA Civil War, cannon balls were stacked > > this way, and such piles were called "brass monkies". > > > > This is a sphere packing arrangement we come back to again and > > again in mathematics. Each sphere is surrounded by 12 others, > > if completely surrounded (spheres close to an edge won't have > > 12 around them). The 12 spheres around a nuclear sphere make a > > shape called the cuboctahedron (8 triangular faces, 6 square). > > > > So now we have the same question about how to computer the Nth > > tetrahedral number. We'd a like a program where you can just > > say > > > > ? tetnumb(5) > > > > and get back > > > > 35 > > > > And we know what we're looking for is the sum of consecutive > > triangular numbers. Writing this another way: > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > Tetnumb(N) = / Trinumb(i) > > --- > > i=1 > > > > Of course that's enough information for a looping program > > right there, taking our previous code and making it accumulate > > spheres through N loops: > > > > function tetnumb(term) > > output = 0 > > for i = 1 to term > > output = output + trinumb(i) > > endfor > > return output > > > > The above tetnumb function makes use of the already-defined > > trinumb function. > > > > Using this computer program, we can write: > > > > ? tetnumb(100) > > > > and get back > > > > 171700 > > > > So the computer is pretty good at simply accumulating the > > already defined triangular numbers. But it'd be cool to come > > up with a formula, similar to the one for consecutive integers, > > which gave a tetrahedral number directly, without having to > > loop through all the intermediate sums. > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > Tetnumb(N) = / Trinumb(i) > > --- > > i=1 > > > > might be rewritten: > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > Tetnumb(N) = / N (N + 1) /2 > > --- > > i=1 > > > > N N > > --- --- > > \ \ > > = (1/2) { / N^2 + / N } > > --- --- > > i=1 i=1 > > > > (using the distributive property of addition). > > > > This is an interesting expression, because the first summation > > represents the sum of consecutive square numbers (vs. triangular > > ones). > > > > Like, if you're using balls to make squares, you go: > > > > * * * * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * * ... > > * * * * > > > > Written as a series, we have: > > > > 1 4 9 16 25 ... > > > > and with a 2nd row of "differences" we have: > > > > 1 4 9 16 25 ... > > \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 3 5 7 9 > > > > Notice too that layers of squares may be stacked, just as > > triangular layers may be. What you get is a growing > > square-based pyramid (vs. triangle-based), or a > > "half-octahedron". > > > > The sum of consecutive square numbers is therefore the > > half-octahedral number (one might say). Lets coin the term > > "meso_oct" because "meso" means "half" or "middle" and we find > > lots of ancient square-based step pyramids in Meso America. > > > > So... > > > > ? meso_oct(1) > > 1 > > > > ? meso_oct(3) > > 14 > > > > And: > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > meso_oct(N) = / N^2 > > --- > > i=1 > > > > If we can get a formula for meso_octal numbers (stacks of > > consecutive squares), then we'll also get a formula for > > tetrahedral numbers, since our algebraic expression includes > > the meso_octs as a term. > > > > We should stop here and examine the tetrahedral and octahedral > > packings of spheres. They turn out to be one and the same > > packing! That's right: if you stack successive squares in a > > Meso American step pyramid, you are getting the same > > 12-around-1 cuboctahedral shape for each completely surrounded > > sphere. > > > > The octahedral packing is just another way of "carving out a > > shape" from the same matrix or lattice of closest packed > > spheres. By cutting through the same packing differently, you > > get this alternative view. > > > > If we connect the centers of adjacent lattice spheres with > > rigid members (e.g. metal rods), we get a truss of considerable > > strength. The inventor Alexander Graham Bell experimented with > > this structure for towers and kites in the early 1900s. New > > England Transendentalist R. Buckminster Fuller later named this > > the octet truss and made it a central concept in his philo- > > sophical explorations, which he called synergetics. > > > > We should mention Gauss again too -- by this time a grown up > > mathematician -- noting that he's credited for formally > > proving that this way of packing spheres achieves maximum > > density for any lattice packing. A lattice is an arrangement > > you can copy and slide through space and superimpose on itself > > seamlessly. > > > > The question still remained, post-Gauss, whether this packing > > is the densest overall, when even non-lattice solutions are > > permitted. A formal proof of this so-called Kepler Conjecture > > has only recently been proposed. > > > > Let's introduce the concept of "frequency" (f) as the number > > of intervals between adjacent spheres along an edge. This is > > the same as the number of spheres along an edge, minus 1. > > > > * * * * > > * * * * * * ... > > * * * * * * > > * * * * > > > > f = 0 1 2 3 ... f = N-1 > > > > * * * * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * * ... > > * * * * > > > > f = 0 1 2 3 ... f = N-1 > > > > In the context of synergetics, Fuller emphasized that the > > triangular numbers represent the number relationships between > > objects or events. > > > > For example, if you draw lines from E1 to every other event > > E2, E3... EN, and do so from each of N events, then you will > > have N * N-1 lines -- having traced over every relationship > > twice. Given f = N-1, the number of relationships is the > > triangular number: f(f+1)/2. > > > > Synergetics uses the concept of frequency as distinct from the > > concept of angle. Angles define shape, and a shape may grow or > > shrink without any of its angles changing. > > > > As our tetrahedron grows, its angles stay the same. Only its > > frequency is changing. > > > > Likewise a cuboctahedron formed by successive layers of spheres > > packing around a nuclear sphere retains its shape. Each > > successive cuboctahedral layer contains 10*f^2 + 2 spheres, > > where f is the number of intervals along an edge. > > > > Now lets look at the relationship between triangular and square > > numbers. A triangular number, plus that of the previous > > frequency, makes a parallelogram or rhombus, with the same > > number of spheres in it as the corresponding (same frequency) > > square: > > > > * * * * > > * * * * * * ... > > * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * > > * * > > * > > > > f = 0 1 2 3 ... > > > > * * * * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * * ... > > * * * * > > > > f = 0 1 2 3 ... > > > > This means that a square number > 1 is always the sum of two > > consecutive triangular numbers: > > > > Square Triangular > > > > 4 3 + 1 > > 9 6 + 3 > > 16 10 + 6 > > 25 15 + 10 > > ... ... > > > > In other words: > > > > sqrnumb(N) = trinumb(N) + trinumb(N-1) > > > > Or, algebraically: > > > > sqrnumb(N) = N(N+1)/2 + (N-1)(N)/2 > > > > = (N^2 + N + N^2 - N)/2 > > > > = 2N^2/2 > > > > = N^2 (as expected) > > > > We still haven't found our generic solution for: > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > meso_oct(N) = / N^2 > > --- > > i=1 > > > > We should stop and mention Jakob Bernoulli at this point, as > > his work gave us a generic way of computing: > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > Sum(N,c) = / N^c > > --- > > i=1 > > > > where N, c are any positive integers. He developed an > > expansion of this Sum as a polynomial -- a set of terms using > > rational coefficients and powers of N. From this polynomial > > expansion, we get his famous "Bernoulli numbers". > > > > Ada Byron, daughter of Lord and Lady Byron, and later the > > Countess Lovelace, is often credited for being the "first > > computer programmer" because she wrote about how to compute > > Bernoulli numbers using the mechanical computing device Charles > > Babbage was designing (but never built, as it's works were too > > intricate for the machinists of his time). > > > > What we're looking for here is a formula for expressing our top > > row in the following series: > > > > 0 1 5 14 30 55 ... > > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 1 4 9 16 25 ... > > \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 3 5 7 9 ... > > > > The top row represents an accumulation of square numbers in a > > meso_oct packing. > > > > Notice that every time we go up a layer, we go up a power. The > > bottom row increases "linearly" (every term is +2 greater than > > the one before). The middle row increases "areally" (every > > term is a 2nd power of N). The top row increases > > "volumetrically" or as a 3rd powering of N. In other words: > > > > meso_oct(N) = A*N^3 + B*N^2 + C*N + D > > > > where we need to find the values of A,B,C and D. That's assuming > > we can express meso_oct(N) as a polynomial -- a reasonable > > assumption. > > > > Let's use some coordinate pairs (N, meso_oct(N)) do solve for > > A,B,C and D. > > > > Here are some valid pairs: > > > > (1,1) > > (2,5) > > (3,14) > > (4,30) > > > > Substituting for N in our polynomial expansion we get: > > > > 1 = A + B + C + D [1] > > 5 = 8A + 4B + 2C + D [2] > > 14 = 27A + 9B + 3C + D [3] > > 30 = 64A + 16B + 4C + D [4] > > > > That's enough information to start eliminating variables. It's > > also a problem we might express using matrix algebra: > > > > | 1 1 1 1 ||A| | 1| > > | 8 4 2 1 ||B| | 5| > > | 27 9 3 1 ||C| = |14| > > | 64 16 4 1 ||D| |30| > > > > Here's one way to solve for A,B,C,D. Numbers in square brackets > > refer to equations e.g. > > > > 4 = 7A + 3B + C [5] =[2]-[1] > > > > meaning equation [5] is derived by subtracting equation [1] > > from equation [2]. > > > > 16 = 37A + 7B + C [6] =[4]-[3] > > 12 = 30A + 4B [7] =[6]-[5] > > > > 13 = 26A + 8B + 2C [8] =[3]-[1] > > 5 = 12A + 2B [9] =[8]-2x[5] > > > > 2 = 6A =[7]-2x[9] > > > > A = 1/3 > > B = 1/2 (substituting A into [9]) > > C = 1/6 (substituting A,B into [5]) > > D = 0 (substituting A,B,C into [1]) > > > > We can check these results by substituting for A,B,C back into > > the original equations, and see that they're true. > > > > So now we have an expression for: > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > meso_oct(N) = / N^2 > > --- > > i=1 > > > > which is: > > > > N > > --- > > \ > > meso_oct(N) = / N^2 = (1/3)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/6)N > > --- > > i=1 > > > > Recall that we were looking for an expression for tetrahedral > > numbers as well, and had written: > > > > N N > > --- --- > > \ \ > > tetnumb(N) = (1/2) { / N^2 + / N } > > --- --- > > i=1 i=1 > > > > which expression is equivalent to: > > > > tetnumb(N) = (1/2) { meso_oct(N) + N(N+1)/2 } > > > > which expression simplifies even further: > > > > (1/2) { meso_oct(N) + N(N+1)/2 } > > > > = (1/2) { (1/3)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/6)N + (1/2)N^2 + (1/2)N } > > > > = (1/2) { (1/3)N^3 + N^2 + (2/3)N } > > > > = (1/6)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/3)N > > > > So our computer program for tetrahedral numbers may no be > > written without the looping. Before we had: > > > > function tetnumb(term) > > output = 0 > > for i = 1 to term > > output = output + trinumb(i) > > endfor > > return output > > > > Now we can write: > > > > function tetnumb(term) > > output = (1/6)*term^3 + (1/2)*term^2 + (1/3)*term > > return output > > > > This new tetnumb returns the same results as before (of course). > > For example: > > > > ? tetnumb(100) > > > > spits back > > > > 171700 > > > > Of course we also now have a program for meso_oct, a direct > > computation using the input parameter: > > > > function meso_oct(term) > > output = (1/3)*term^3 + (1/2)*term^2 + (1/6)*term > > return output > > > > For example: > > > > ? meso_oct(6) > > > > spits back > > > > 91 > > > > Which is the result we'd expect, i.e. is the same as: > > > > 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2 + 4^2 + 5^2 + 6^2 > > > > To summarize, for tetrahedral numbers, we have the following: > > > > 0 1 4 10 20 35 56 ... <-- (1/6)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/3)N > > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 1 3 6 10 15 21 ... <-- N(N+1)/2 (triangular) > > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 2 3 4 5 6 ... <-- N+1 > > \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 1 1 1 1 > > \ / \ / \ / > > 0 0 0 > > > > And for half-octahedral numbers, we have: > > > > 0 1 5 14 30 55 91 ... <-- (1/3)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/6)N > > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 1 4 9 16 25 36 ... <-- N^2 (square) > > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 3 5 7 9 11 ... <-- 2N+1 > > \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 2 2 2 2 > > \ / \ / \ / > > 0 0 0 > > > > These triangles may be built upward to higher numbers of rows > > of course. For example, we could write: > > > > 0 1 2 7 21 51 106 197 <-- equation? > > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / > > 0 1 5 14 30 55 91 <-- (1/3)N^3 + (1/2)N^2 + (1/6)N > > > > It's also possible to keep finding these equations of higher > > and higher degree. Having a table of Bernoulli numbers handy > > would shorten this exercise. > > > > Also, remember our concept of "frequency", which = N-1 in these > > cases (the number of intervals between adjacent spheres along > > the edge of a triangular or square packing). We can substitute > > f+1 for N in the above equations and simplify, getting: > > > > trinumb(f) = (1/2)*f^2 + (3/2)*f + (3/2) > > tetnumb(f) = (1/6)*f^3 + f^2 + (11/6)*f + 1 > > > > sqrnumb(f) = f^2 + 2*f + 1 > > meso_oct(f)= (1/3)*f^3 + (3/2)*f^2 + (13/6)*f + 1 > > > > Thinkers mentioned: > > > > Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) -- Kepler Conjecture > > Jakob Bernoulli (1654-1705) -- Bernoulli numbers > > Johann Carl Friedrich Gauss (1777-1855) -- densest lattice packing > > Charles Babbage (1791-1871) -- mechanical calculating device > > Ada Lovelace (1815-1861) -- Bernoulli numbers program for Babbage device > > Alexander Graham Bell (1847-1922) -- octet truss structures > > R. Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983) -- synergetics, angle vs. frequency > > > > Major reference: > > A Study in Sphere Packing by K. Urner > > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/sphpack.html > > --- > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:06:54 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) In-Reply-To: <373B2308.98F170C7@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> I think, anyway this is some ideas that I have. Thank you for asking. >> Michael S. Mitchell (c) 1999 >> You're welcome. Kirby T. Urner (c) 1999 PS: no need to quote the whole thing back to us -- we saw it the first time. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:49:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The reason to put your whole statement in reply was to show what I was talking about was not there. Your version is very over specialized and mine is very comprehensive. To educate is to make more comprehensive so as to understand the special case events in a deeper way, your very special case tends to say I know this and you do not. This is different than; we all live in these events together and we can share the interest. This is the difference in the attitudes of our statements of education. But of course these are my own ideas. MSM (c) 1999 The odd and even frequency having a center ball or not is most important in your special case facts of the topology facts. You forgot this in your statement. IF you spin one of the balls all odd and even spins will be the same as well. Like in pool. If you spin the cue ball to the right the ball it hits will spin left and the ball it hits will spin right and so on until entropy dissipates the spin. Kirby Urner wrote: > >> I think, anyway this is some ideas that I have. Thank you for asking. > >> Michael S. Mitchell (c) 1999 > >> > > You're welcome. Kirby T. Urner (c) 1999 > > PS: no need to quote the whole thing back to us -- we saw it the > first time. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:26:11 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) In-Reply-To: <373BF1A3.BFF9F99D@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 14 May 1999 09:49:23 +0000, you wrote: >The reason to put your whole statement in reply was to show what I was >talking about was not there. Your version is very over specialized and=20 >mine is very comprehensive. =20 (1) I am not adopting an either/or approach. If you have a curriculum you want to share, no one is standing in your way. The purpose of=20 sharing what I did was to garner feedback. Giving me a lot of stuff about what's missing isn't all that helpful, as this is just a=20 fragment in any case -- no way am I going to include the whole=20 shebang in every fragment (except holographically -- but that's=20 in the mind of the beholder). (2) You don't need to "prove" all that stuff about precession is=20 missing, by requoting the whole passage. Everyone on this list just got all that material and can refer to it -- you simply need to point out that I didn't use the word "precession" (unlike you, I'm not obsessed with that particular key word). >To educate is to make more comprehensive >so as to understand the special case events in a deeper way, your >very special case tends to say I know this and you do not.=20 (3) I didn't start out knowing any of this. I had to do my homework. Now I'm sharing the results of that work, I hope in a format which is clear, makes sense, and gives others a boost aka a head start into the same material -- they'll go further than I (many have=20 already, a lot further). What I'm doing in that fragment, as I=20 indicated in the intro, is phasing synergetics into the mainstream in a seamless and intelligible manner, in the area of sphere packing. >difference in the attitudes of our statements of education. (4) I'm sure we have different attitudes and so on, but this is not an either/or situation. Just because I do (a) doesn't stop you from doing (b). I'm interested in feedback vs. what I've already done, not in getting your advice about how I should be more like you=20 (I'd sooner shoot myself than turn out as an MSM clone). >But of course these are my own ideas. MSM (c) 1999 Of course. >The odd and even frequency having a center ball or not is most important >in your special case facts of the topology facts. You forgot this in = your >statement.=20 That's a good point. Odd numbers of balls have a "middle ball" whereas even numbers of balls center on a point of contact. This is more the kind of feedback I'm looking for. >IF you spin one of the balls all odd and even spins >will be the same as well. Like in pool. If you spin the cue ball to the >right >the ball it hits will spin left and the ball it hits will spin right and= so >on >until entropy dissipates the spin. I link to gears here, a train of gears. This is also useful, more what I'm looking for. Thanks. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:39:42 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) In-Reply-To: <373BF1A3.BFF9F99D@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also replied to MSM's comments over on Synergetics-L with respect to "precession" in particular, taking the position that MSM fails to comprehend the meaning of this key word in synergetics, confusing it with "orbital relationship". =20 If you want to read Synergetics-L without joining the list (we all get too much inbox as it is), you will find a link to the web=20 interface from my http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/links.html --=20 Geodesic also has a web interface and is linked from that same page (as is a lot of other good stuff). Kirby PS: my links page continues onto a second page -- a longer index of links in alphabetical order. This is where you'll find my link to MSM's web page as well (added as soon as it became available). =20 The BFI created its own Community Links page by copying my HTML,=20 but hasn't done much to keep it up to date since then (is holding=20 out for 50K before it takes much interest in its own website,=20 kinda like MSM is holding out for for 57K before we get to do anything with the Carbondale dome) -- hence no link to MSM from=20 the BFI Community Links page.=20 Somewhat ironic that MSM is so defensive of the BFI, and yet my=20 site is the one which feeds him more browsers, free of charge. =20 Plus he's using my Synergetics-L to advertise his real estate=20 and "unitivity" theory (which has very little to do with synergetics). =20 I say MSM and the BFI managers deserve each other. I say MSM should=20 use the BFI's resources to promulgate his stuff and not mine, if=20 he chooses to be so critical -- otherwise he's just a hypocrite=20 and makes the Fuller School look bad, tarnishes our image (just=20 like the BFI does, with its incompetent and "less results with=20 more donations" approach). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:58:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > You do not understand precession and I do not need pride as you do, > i need understanding, which you do not. Your statements are so ignorant > of bucky I would suggest you reconsider and restudy synregetics. > Or if you would listen to the audio tapes of him that i made once I > make a park out of his home I will put them on the net so you can > hear it in his own words. I love you kirby or I would just ignore you. > I feel that you need to be educated on some points and I will make > them now and then. thank you for allowing me on your artifact > design of the syn list so the I may give my humble opinion from my > real life documented from 1967 to 1983 experience with bucky on > as personal a basis as anyone but his blood kin. I have not > been in the lime light and never did want to be. I am now just > to take out the mess that builds out sometimes. We all must > have the same axis our we do not have a world to live on soon. > > Kirby Urner wrote: > > > At 06:35 PM 5/13/99 +0000, you wrote: > > >Since all these possible models are on earth and the earth is precessional > > >to the sun, and all the possible models that can be made are precessional > > > > (1) I don't think you understand the synergetics meaning of "precessional". > > The orbital state is between the "falling in" state (returning to the > > surface, or coming in for a landing for the first time), and the trully > > precessional state, which is not characterized by any simple orbiting > > relationship. You have confused "precessional" with "orbital" -- at > > least from a synergetics point of view (perhaps in unitivity theory you > > don't make the distinction). > > > > (2) Please don't quote huge amounts of text that other people on the > > list will have already received, and don't need to receive again. > > You've had your computer over four months and should be further up > > the learning curve by now -- let's not perpetuate the myth that Fuller's > > "disciples" are dumb (how come they think Fuller is so cool). On the > > contrary, the Fuller School includes some of the smartest cookies on > > the planet by now. You should be bursting with pride about that -- > > and behaving more like you understand your responsibilities. > > > > Kirby > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:07:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby this is the stupidest point of view possible why must you be so ignorant of bucky and use all his artifacts against his own blood family and his friends like me that bought his home from him. It is as if you buy bread at the store you have sold out to some KIRBY GOD that states you are hungry and that is against the universe. Bucky sold the dome to me, because I want to sell it to make a park out of it does this mean I am worse than bucky. Or did he sell out when he did this. Your ignorance of synergetics that orbit is not precession is beyond belief. You should ask Buzz Aldren, Buzz if your out there would tell this guy how stupid that is. An orbit has decline and ascent it is the same, Syntropy and entropy and Isotropy is all precessional events. Stupid. you really do not understand the basics of synergetics and you want to teach it, try listening and learning how to make it easy, not struck out to infinity models. Precession is how it all is, the speed of light. I am trying to beat it in your head to say you are sorry to the bfi and come back to camp and just be like the rest of us. People of earth trying to make it work for everyone, not hitler of the list for self gain and remorse and hate.Thank you for your time. Kirby Urner wrote: > I also replied to MSM's comments over on Synergetics-L with respect > to "precession" in particular, taking the position that MSM fails to > comprehend the meaning of this key word in synergetics, confusing it > with "orbital relationship". > > If you want to read Synergetics-L without joining the list (we all > get too much inbox as it is), you will find a link to the web > interface from my http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/links.html -- > Geodesic also has a web interface and is linked from that same > page (as is a lot of other good stuff). > > Kirby > > PS: my links page continues onto a second page -- a longer index > of links in alphabetical order. This is where you'll find my link > to MSM's web page as well (added as soon as it became available). > > The BFI created its own Community Links page by copying my HTML, > but hasn't done much to keep it up to date since then (is holding > out for 50K before it takes much interest in its own website, > kinda like MSM is holding out for for 57K before we get to do > anything with the Carbondale dome) -- hence no link to MSM from > the BFI Community Links page. > > Somewhat ironic that MSM is so defensive of the BFI, and yet my > site is the one which feeds him more browsers, free of charge. > Plus he's using my Synergetics-L to advertise his real estate > and "unitivity" theory (which has very little to do with synergetics). > > I say MSM and the BFI managers deserve each other. I say MSM should > use the BFI's resources to promulgate his stuff and not mine, if > he chooses to be so critical -- otherwise he's just a hypocrite > and makes the Fuller School look bad, tarnishes our image (just > like the BFI does, with its incompetent and "less results with > more donations" approach). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 03:52:21 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) In-Reply-To: <373C6432.70E96E52@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 14 May 1999 17:58:10 +0000, you wrote: >Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > >> You do not understand precession and I do not need pride as you do, >> i need understanding, which you do not. Your statements are so = ignorant This was a cross-post from Synergetics-L. I've done this too in the = past. But as both listservs are accessible via web, even to nonsubscribers,=20 I try to keep such cross-postings to a minimum. I encourage MSM to=20 likewise have some self-discipline by showing some sensitivity to=20 other subscribers. Kirby PS: I've challenged MSM to go over the public domain text of = 'Synergetics' to determine whether Bucky equated precession with orbital motion about=20 a focus. I'll let you know if MSM agrees to let Bucky settle this=20 question, or if his pride gets in the way. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 04:44:19 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) In-Reply-To: <373C6653.C2366A64@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 14 May 1999 18:07:15 +0000, you wrote: >Kirby this is the stupidest point of view possible why must you be >so ignorant of bucky and use all his artifacts against his own >blood family and his friends like me that bought his home from >him. It is as if you buy bread at the store you have sold out >to some KIRBY GOD that states you are hungry and that is >against the universe. Bucky sold the dome to me, because >I want to sell it to make a park out of it does this mean >I am worse than bucky. =20 Yes, because he was an incredibly busy guy trying to handle a lot of logistics. He sold it to you hoping it'd become something.=20 But you turned it into a focal point of your plan to make money and prepare for the "big flood" (metaphorically speaking), when you'd take off in your boat. We already have a lot of posts on Synergetics-L where you talk about skipping town when things get ugly. You think the land world is going to hell and only people equipped for water world will survive. You must think you're=20 some kind of Kevin Costner in WaterWorld or something. You're some kind of survivalist living on a "getaway motor boat"=20 waiting for all hell to break loose. You want to sell the dome=20 so you can build up your stash, get a better boat. Or was it to=20 start your band again? Or was it to write your memoirs? -- you=20 keep changing your story. You let Bucky down. This many years later, no park, and a lot of disillusioned people who write to me and tell me what kind of character you are. You hide behind that letter from Bucky=20 saying you have integrity. Sounds like you helped make his life miserable, by stealing and doing a lot of drugs around him and=20 Anne. By writing this letter about you he put people on notice: =20 "To Whom It May Concern" he wrote. Like, why would he need to=20 write something like that, vouching for your basic integrity=20 (something he found in every human he met). Because he knew=20 that you would out live him and would generate a lot of serious=20 doubts about his "following". In your case, he had to warn us=20 that something "special" was afoot. You remind me of the BFI because you're all talk and no walk. You=20 don't actually do anything except post about how wonderful you=20 are, saying you want to start a political party and be the first=20 Bucky president. I bet a lot of people laughed out loud when=20 they read that. No serious student of Bucky would ever think=20 of sucking up to the politicos the way you do -- and the way=20 BFI does, with that latest TrimTab, sucking up to some Washington=20 DC program on the front page, hoping to win friends in the=20 political apparatus, even though Bucky himself was never into=20 playing politics in this way. The BFI still has stuff in boxes, uncollated, uninventoried. Scholars come there and are aghast at how disorganized it all is, how this great man's lifework is being warehoused with a=20 minimum of security and care, while the fundraising thermometer hangs outside, telling us there's not enough money coming in to justify lifting a finger to actually *do* anything. All talk, lots of memoranda, puff and baloney. Hot air. You have no idea how many talented and gifted volunteers walked away from the BFI, after getting burned out on all the big fat=20 *nothing* that goes on around there. Each and every one of these people was a more serious, worthy and contributing=20 individual than you are. And your name never came up, because you weren't contributing all during the 1990s in a way that=20 lit up any lights. Go back and read the TrimTabs. I was=20 there, active, doing things. So were my friends. A lot of these people are still my friends. We struggle on, and do=20 what we can to make the design science revolution a reality=20 NO THANKS TO BFI!!!! >Or did he sell out when he did this. >Your ignorance of synergetics that orbit is not precession is >beyond belief. You should ask Buzz Aldren, Buzz if your out there >would tell this guy how stupid that is. An orbit has decline and >ascent it is the same, Syntropy and entropy and Isotropy is all >precessional events. Stupid. you really do not understand the basics There's the part about the critical proximity falling in point and going from a 180 degree relationship to a more 90 degree one. But then there's "peeling off" and leaving a spiro-orbital system altogether, maybe joining up with another one, somewhere else. Your problem is you have an extremely simple-minded Universe, wherein the only possible=20 order is we all should 'take our place' an adopt some 180-degree=20 "fall in" relationship with the BFI -- as if we should all bow to Mecca three times a day. The BFI was not Bucky's idea. It was the grandson's in particular. Jaime wanted to piggy back on grandad and milk whatever fame and glory might be owing to him, given his=20 privileged relationship. You operate with much the same psychology. You think the world owes you some special deference because of the time you spent with Bucky. I think that's totally ridiculous. >of synergetics and you want to teach it, try listening and learning how >to make it easy, not struck out to infinity models. Precession is how >it all is, the speed of light. I am trying to beat it in your head to = say I didn't mention "infinity" even once in that paper I circulated. It was all definite and discrete mathematics using low order whole numbers -- the kind of thing Bucky appreciated. >you are sorry to the bfi and come back to camp and just be like the >rest of us. People of earth trying to make it work for everyone, not >hitler of the list for self gain and remorse and hate.Thank you for your >time. > I'm still waiting for a public and published explanation from Jaime=20 for his trying to play hard ball with Bucky and threatening him if=20 he (Bucky) didn't take the est Training. This is what I wrote to=20 Allegra, cc to some others who have a right to know the sad and=20 sorry history behind the BFI and its corruption. =20 I have a letter from the est archives wherein Bucky is clearly being=20 pushed to take some extreme actions, by writing such a letter and=20 sending it to Werner Erhard. At the end of the letter Jaime calls=20 and tells Bucky their love is over and then he disconnects. This=20 is terrible. Since I've gained access to this letter (because of=20 my long association with Werner Erhard and Associates) I have no=20 desire whatsoever to give Jaime even the time of day. =20 Same with you. I see you as a parasite. Poor Bucky, to have=20 attracted such "men" to his enterprise. Poor Allegra too, to be surrounded by such people. I am sorry this soap opera is so mean=20 and ugly a lot of the time, but I do not agree with you that this is because of me being a "little Hitler" (what you called Jay Baldwin as well -- plus you said some nasty things about Bill Perk and Ed Applewhite). I am not the bottleneck. If anything, my role has=20 been to make people realize that we still have a chance to make it, just like Bucky hoped we would -- because we don't *need* the BFI to prove itself worthy. It doesn't matter. The BFI doesn't need to be a part of the critical path. The BFI has made a lot of enemies and I doubt will ever attract=20 any serious funding until Jaime comes clean about his whole history=20 with est and Bucky and everything else. That letter is part of=20 the historical record by now. Future biographies will have to=20 include it. The credibility of the BFI is shot, ruined, destroyed,=20 as far as I'm concerned. And I'm not the one who did this. You can=20 point the finger at me if you like, but I didn't hang up in Bucky's=20 ear when he was old and vulnerable and doing his best to keep it together and say I was ending my love (I, the only grandson). =20 You know nothing about any of this a presume -- you are not an accomplice in this crime. You don't have very much information=20 about anything and I think you've made a huge fool of yourself=20 by coming online and screaming at me about what an idiot I am=20 (out of one side of your mouth, while you protest friendship and "love" out of the other side). Like I said, you and BFI deserve=20 each other. So please go to hell and don't write to me anymore,=20 OK??? You don't need me and I most certainly and completely don't=20 need to have anything further to do with you (or Jaime either,=20 for that matter). Kirby >Kirby Urner wrote: > >> I also replied to MSM's comments over on Synergetics-L with respect >> to "precession" in particular, taking the position that MSM fails to >> comprehend the meaning of this key word in synergetics, confusing it >> with "orbital relationship". >> >> If you want to read Synergetics-L without joining the list (we all >> get too much inbox as it is), you will find a link to the web >> interface from my http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/links.html -- >> Geodesic also has a web interface and is linked from that same >> page (as is a lot of other good stuff). >> >> Kirby >> >> PS: my links page continues onto a second page -- a longer index >> of links in alphabetical order. This is where you'll find my link >> to MSM's web page as well (added as soon as it became available). >> >> The BFI created its own Community Links page by copying my HTML, >> but hasn't done much to keep it up to date since then (is holding >> out for 50K before it takes much interest in its own website, >> kinda like MSM is holding out for for 57K before we get to do >> anything with the Carbondale dome) -- hence no link to MSM from >> the BFI Community Links page. >> >> Somewhat ironic that MSM is so defensive of the BFI, and yet my >> site is the one which feeds him more browsers, free of charge. >> Plus he's using my Synergetics-L to advertise his real estate >> and "unitivity" theory (which has very little to do with synergetics). >> >> I say MSM and the BFI managers deserve each other. I say MSM should >> use the BFI's resources to promulgate his stuff and not mine, if >> he chooses to be so critical -- otherwise he's just a hypocrite >> and makes the Fuller School look bad, tarnishes our image (just >> like the BFI does, with its incompetent and "less results with >> more donations" approach). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:55:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael S. Mitchell wrote: > Kirby Urner wrote: > > > At 05:54 PM 5/14/99 +0000, you wrote: > > >You do not understand precession and I do not need pride as you do, > > >i need understanding, which you do not. Your statements are so ignorant > > >of bucky I would suggest you reconsider and restudy synregetics. > > > > We can look at 'Synergetics' on-line and decide whether precession > > is the same as orbiting around an axis. Are you willing to do this > > and admit your mistake, if this becomes obvious? Or will you simply > > dismiss any quotes as "what's in the book" and claim your unitivity > > "goes beyond" what Bucky laid out as a coherent philosophy? > > > > > > Kirby > > > > Right off the cuff look at page 357 Synergetic DictionaryNamed: "The mind of > Buckminster Fuller > Volume 3:N-Sp > Column : 2A > > > Precession: > > States: Multi orbital 1960 > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:34:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The BFI was not Bucky's idea. "Ask Medard Gable. I am very sure he did,MSM." Not that it is your business or mine. I have a New York Times article saying at a RBF news conference saying so.,MSM. I have a letter from the est archives wherein Bucky is clearly being > pushed to take some extreme actions, by writing such a letter and > sending it to Werner Erhard. At the end of the letter Jaime calls > and tells Bucky their love is over and then he disconnects. This > is terrible. Since I've gained access to this letter (because of > my long association with Werner Erhard and Associates) I have no > desire whatsoever to give Jaime even the time of day. > I suppose RBF loved you more than Jamie and had that EST look in his eyes.MSM > The BFI has made a lot of enemies and I doubt will ever attract > any serious funding until Jaime comes clean about his whole history > with est and Bucky and everything else. That letter is part of > the historical record by now. Future biographies will have to > include it. The credibility of the BFI is shot, ruined, destroyed, > as far as I'm concerned. And I'm not the one who did this. You can > point the finger at me if you like, but I didn't hang up in Bucky's > ear when he was old and vulnerable and doing his best to keep it > together and say I was ending my love (I, the only grandson). > > You know nothing about any of this a presume -- you are not an > accomplice in this crime. You don't have very much information > about anything and I think you've made a huge fool of yourself > by coming online and screaming at me about what an idiot I am > (out of one side of your mouth, while you protest friendship and > "love" out of the other side). Like I said, you and BFI deserve > each other. So please go to hell and don't write to me anymore, > OK??? You don't need me and I most certainly and completely don't > need to have anything further to do with you (or Jaime either, > for that matter). > > Kirby > > You are a bit like Hitler in his last days in his bunker here! Ha HA HAA! Love is the only way out of your deep hole now Kirby.Yes I know about Jamie and Bucky I was with bucky in Kenyon College when jamie turned around and came back and like you have not he said he was sorry and begin traveling with him. Jaime took my place making tapes after that. Bucky stated that he thought he lost him ( Jamie ) but he realized he was sorry and did the right thing and understood his mistake. Toni Huston has also done this, I think Bill Perk as I talked to him yesterday on the phone is very much into trying to make the park a reality. He stated he would start working on it by talking to some people. I have a high regard for Bill Perk, Jay, Ed, Jamie, but in the Fuller camp we all expect to tear each other apart to see the truth. The truth only hurts those that it is the truth. You are only vulnerable where you are vulnerable as RBF would say. This last post has put you over the top with this and Now I would say you are sorry for your following is going to think your axis is not long enough to take this weight of integrity you seem to be assuming. You do not have the power to pull all these insults off and this is the reason I have tied into you in the first place because as bucky stated only the impossible happens, and now it has for so many whom I have talked with stated that you were gaining ( and not the bfi people I MAY ADD) to much power over all these net people. Now we have a real record for scholars to see how big a pip squeak you really are. Take another hit of selfishness KU. You must say you are sorry now. you poor thing. You think est was a big deal, RBF only did it to get his grandson in axis and it worked. The fuller blood is thick, and he will be a very great man, humble wise and honest, why because he is. I have seen him grow and Alexandra as well, they are the best of the archive and you slam dance your way into the internet with your education of computers and politics of philosophy bull. You are way off center. You are not the important thing here, bucky was a very great man, the greatest you do not have a letter like I do from him, and I do, and I say you do not deserve a letter from him. You need all of us to love you so you can see how you can redirect your good possibilities and not just turn on all of us who knew bucky a whole lot better than you. Bucky did not sell me the dome to take care of it. He sold it to take care of me. You are the one who has started all this anti BFI stuff and you are the bad seed. I stole books from the library because I got tired of waiting for the girl to wait on me. I returned them and I told bucky, he said smile, I did. I am still smiling. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:48:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Michael S. Mitchel Vs. Kirby Urner case rests. Comments: To: synergetics-l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My case rests. Copy right (c) 1999 Michael S. Mitchell - Unitivitist ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 06:35:21 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Sample polymath curriculum (Oregon Curriculum Network) In-Reply-To: <373C96F7.5009D190@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Whether or not Bucky and Jaime worked it out is irrelevant to me.=20 My previous post had to do with my own relationships with these=20 people, not Bucky's. I keep my own accounts, independently of yours=20 or anyone else's. I have that freedom. The letter I mentioned is a part of the historical record and it's good to have some commentary about it on file, from me and/or others. I have some other archival letters too, but nevermind about them. I have been up front about my concerns (privately in more detail) and have said as much in this forum as I need to in order to make=20 my position fairly clear. Now I'm done with this thread. I'm happy=20 to have it archived w/ Geodesic. Something to refer back to in=20 future. >You think est was a big deal, RBF only did it to get his grandson in He didn't enroll in any Standard est Training -- shared a platform with Erhard on a number of ocassions. Of course I'm aware that Jaime continued to work on projects post the events chronicled in that=20 letter -- not news. >here, bucky was a very great man, the greatest you do not have a letter >like I do from him, and I do, and I say you do not deserve a letter from= him. I don't care about your letter -- although leaves me wondering a little=20 (as I mentioned above). I got my letter too (sent some copies around,=20 stapled to writings as a kind of appendix -- stuff from Erhard too). I had my own relationship with the guy (he was quite aware of me,=20 I know). I just don't go around making such a big deal out of it. =20 Many of Fuller's greatest students/interpreters are no doubt as yet=20 unborn. >waiting for the girl to wait on me. I returned them and I told bucky, = he said >smile, I did. I am still smiling. :-) Smile away guy. It's my reading that you must have been a royal pain in the butt around Bucky but he had ways of dealing with it, but that's=20 just my reading -- based on what I've learned about you (never heard=20 of you before you started posting all this crap to listservs -- maybe it'd have been different had we been properly introduced). You'll spin it any way you think you can get away with I suppose. Anyway, I agree we've reached a sort of terminus here. Glad I've=20 gotten some stuff off my chest -- helped to clear the air. Now back=20 to work. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:59:48 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: CLOSING STATEMENT MSM VS KU HOPEFULLY SORRY. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I don't care about your letter -- although leaves me wondering a little > (as I mentioned above). Please show me your letter from bucky or who ever, thank you.MSM. > I got my letter too (sent some copies around, > stapled to writings as a kind of appendix -- stuff from Erhard too). > I had my own relationship with the guy (he was quite aware of me, > I know). I just don't go around making such a big deal out of it. > Many of Fuller's greatest students/interpreters are no doubt as yet > unborn. THE GREATEST STUDENTS ARE HIS FAMILY JUST AS IN ALL FAMILIES THE GREATEST STUDENTS ARE PART OF THE FAMILY. MSM > > > >waiting for the girl to wait on me. I returned them and I told bucky, he said > >smile, I did. I am still smiling. :-) > > Smile away guy. It's my reading that you must have been a royal pain > in the butt around Bucky but he had ways of dealing with it, but that's > just my reading -- based on what I've learned about you (never heard > of you before you started posting all this crap to listservs -- maybe > it'd have been different had we been properly introduced). > RIGHT I WAS A PAIN IN YOUR MINDS EYE. YOU HAVEA SICK MIND TO SAY WHAT YOU HAVE ABOUT ME AND THE FAMILY. YOU HAVE A LOT OF STUPIDITY TO GO AGAINST BUCKY'S FAMILY AND USE HIS BOOKS FOR A LIVING ON YOUR SITE. WHAT AN IDIOT. YOUR REPUTATION IS SHOT. KEEP ALL THE BFI INSULTS OFF THE WEB ABOUT BFI OR I WILL BE RIGHT BACK > IN YOUR FACE FOR BUCKY'S SAKE. YOU ATTACK THE PEOPLE HE LOVED THE MOST IN HIS LIFE AND IN THATRESPECT YOU ARE A FOOL. IF YOU SAY YOU ARE SORRY AS BUCKY WOULD SAY THEN IT IS OK IF YOU REALLY MEAN IT. I WILL BE WATCHING YOU EVERY MOVE SO KEEP OUT OF THE FAMILY HEART YOU ARE NOT INVITED. > You'll spin it any way you think you can get away with I suppose. > > Anyway, I agree we've reached a sort of terminus here. Glad I've > gotten some stuff off my chest -- helped to clear the air. Now back > to work. > > Kirby FINI, I A SORRY TO PUT KIRBY URNER IN HIS PLACE ALL THE TIME BUT SOMEONE HAS TO PROTECT THE LIFE AND TIMES OF R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER. THIS MAN KIRBY IS MOOT. HE IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED WITH INFORMATION AND ESPECIALLY SYNERGETICS JUST BECAUSE HE HAS A SCANNER OR SHOULD I SAY SCAMMER. IN THIS CASE THE MESSENGER MUST BE ATTACKED NOT THE MESSAGE. OTHERWISE ATTACK THE MESSAGE NOT THE MESSENGER. HE IS A WEB TOURIST AGAINST THE FULLER FAMILY AND SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED. HE HAS NO AFFILIATION WITH BUCKMINSTER FULLER OTHER THAN AN INSIDE KEN STAR THAT HAS TURNED SELFISH AND ANGRY BECAUSE HE CANNOT RESPECT GESTATION RATES OF THE UNIVERSE AND BLAMES IT ON ANYONE THAT WILL MAKE HIM LOOK MORE SMARTER AND POWERFUL TO ALL NEW COMERS. PLEASE IGNORE HIS INSULTS TO THE FULLER FAMILY THEY ARE NOT TRUE OR HARMLESS. THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR PATIENCE IN THIS FLAME WAR OVER WHETHER BUCKY' S FAMILY HAS INTEGRITY. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT NEW PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THE NET HAS PEOPLE LIKE KIRBY URNER ON IT THAT USE IT TO SPREAD RUMORS. HE IS THE DARTH VADER OF THE BUCKMINSTER FULLER INSTITUTE. PLEASE EVERYONE IGNORE HIM. PLUS HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT PRECESSION MEANS, WHICH IS THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL EVENT OF SYNERGETICS. "kirby" YOU MAY HAVE YOUR CLOSING STATEMENT NOW STUPID. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 19:32:35 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Kirby files his own closing statements In-Reply-To: <373D4594.A6E0CB53@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 15 May 1999 09:59:48 +0000, you wrote: >> I don't care about your letter -- although leaves me wondering a = little >> (as I mentioned above). > >Please show me your letter from bucky or who ever, thank you.MSM. No. But it's on file at BFI, last Bonnie DeVarco checked (back when she was archivist). Circa 1982. Plus the paper on General=20 Systems Theory to which Fuller was responding. >> I got my letter too (sent some copies around, >> stapled to writings as a kind of appendix -- stuff from Erhard too). >> I had my own relationship with the guy (he was quite aware of me, >> I know). I just don't go around making such a big deal out of it. >> Many of Fuller's greatest students/interpreters are no doubt as yet >> unborn. > >THE GREATEST STUDENTS ARE HIS FAMILY JUST AS >IN ALL FAMILIES THE GREATEST STUDENTS ARE >PART OF THE FAMILY. MSM > Actually this is not the historical rule of thumb. Some families have produced a kind of intellectual lineage, the Bernoullis for=20 example. In many if not most schools of thought, however, a=20 lineage is not genetic in any way, not a dynasty. =20 Many Buddhist schools have rather elaborate internally defined=20 metaphysics about how threads continue across physical lifetimes=20 in a partially overlapping scenarios Universe model -- gets pretty=20 involved and I don't pretend to much specialized expertise in=20 this area (something the Panchen Lama is supposed to know a lot about). In any case, for thinkers as seminal as Fuller, I expect a sort of typical branching pattern, with thinkers taking Fuller's=20 contribution and mixing it with others, taking their curricula in various directions. Insofar as Jaime defines one of these branches, I'd put him=20 with Steve Brand in the "total quality management" school=20 (TQM) -- going by the PacTel chapter and the kinds of faddish bizspeak getting thrown around in the early 1980s. This had something to do with Erhard's group, which role modeled=20 entrepeneurship in various guises (the Centers Network most=20 centrally), and the more generic Dale Carnegie thread which=20 feeds whole bookshelves of "how to succeed in business" type=20 books. But I think it's a misreading of Erhard's school to lump it=20 with Dale Carnegie's. Erhard himself linked it to Zen. Of=20 course TQM and Zen maybe link up in the Japanese business=20 culture, but that's another story. It's also a mistake to view est as a derivative of Scientology, although it's true=20 that Erhard surfed through Hubbard's school, on a trajectory of smorgasbord sampling, looking for enlightenment (as were so many in that era -- still the case today). Scientologists have historically made a lot of trouble for Erhard, and by extension for Bucky, stealing his "integrity day" concept for example. I've already had exchanges with Riversong about this, after he started sending his Church of Scientology propaganda to my=20 inbox. Now I see he's the most prominent link on your web page. =20 So I have to conclude that you've maybe drifted into circles=20 which were inimical to Bucky's in a lot of ways (Bucky was=20 angry about that "integrity day" rip off as well, or so sources=20 tell me). Bucky defended Werner's operation as a "school" from the public platform BTW, in front of lots of people -- part of what RBF's=20 letter to Werner is about is squelching a newspaper report that=20 RBF was the recipient of any grants or other financial support=20 from the est Foundation, as this would have undermined RBF's=20 credibility in support of Erhard, were the latter financially=20 supporting the former in any way (would have transmuted Fuller's=20 freely volunteered boosts of Erhard into paid endorsements --=20 gold into lead in other words (which is why Fuller is so crystal=20 clear for the historical record that he was NOT receiving any=20 grants from Erhard's operation (nor was Fuller paying Jaime to serve as any kind of official go-between, following his own rule=20 to never hire face men or PR people))). >YOUR REPUTATION IS SHOT. KEEP ALL THE BFI >INSULTS OFF THE WEB ABOUT BFI OR I WILL BE RIGHT BACK I don't give a shit what you do, little man. Save your threats for = someone who cares. My interest is in getting a clear picture of the historical=20 record, what actually happened. It's not always a pretty picture, and people have their weaknesses, as per usual -- me as well. I have no particular interest in attacking Fuller's family. Allegra=20 thought that's what Bonnie was doing when she wrote me that paranoid=20 letter about Bonnie's secret agenda to undermine the family (see http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bfihist.html), but Bonnie was simply=20 sharing an already widely spread perception that the BFI, a public=20 corporation (serving the people of California, not the private financial intersts of any family -- why it's tax exempt after all) was being=20 grossly mismanaged towards selfish ends, and not consistently with=20 =46uller's philosophy. =20 There's certainly nothing wrong with Fuller's family getting wealthy off Bucky's work and I wouldn't begrudge any of them doing that. But=20 this has to be done without compromising the integrity of the Fuller=20 School as a whole (the global school of thought Fuller left in his w ake). Creating a public corporation and using that as a front for=20 purely private gain is a sleazy thing to do. Yet this perception=20 was the developing in the aftermath of the BFI's executive committee's unilateral decision to deny Tony DeVarco a raise and accept his and=20 Bonnie's resignations instead, plus encourage them to leave town in=20 a hurry with little follow-through (contrary to their best offers). This was the family (Allegra and Jaime) being paranoid and meting out retribution, bypassing their own board of directors, relying on an=20 inner circle to enforce the family interests -- regardless of what=20 might have best served the people of California, who give BFI the=20 right to not pay taxes by allowing it to incorporate as a 501(c)(3). =20 Many on the Board thought this was the clearest proof yet that the=20 family would rather pay Jaime his $10,000 per annum to live in far=20 away Ashland, Oregon (hundreds of miles to the north) and "manage"=20 the BFI by phone, rather then allow the BFI to get out of their=20 control, with no direct financial benefits accruing to Jaime (but=20 rather to "outsiders" like Bonnie and Tony -- like all those=20 burned out volunteers). Tony Houston (sp?) was not a board member at this time, but Applewhite=20 and Shirley Sharkey (Fuller's personal secretary for many years) both=20 were, and both wrote sharply worded letters of protest when Tony and=20 Bonnie were unceremoniously let go, the two of them having done more=20 to advance the prospects of the Institute than just about anyone (which=20 is why they were such a threat to Jaime's need for long term control). Amy Edmondson was also sickened by these events as I recall -- I may still have a copy of her letters around here somewhere (Ed and Shirley both shared their letters with me as well as with the BFI, as I was involved at that time, including having long conversations with Jaime who would call me from Ashland, and corresponding with Allegra by=20 email and snailmail (we started out with a good relationship based=20 on mutual respect -- I still have a lot of respect for Allegra)). >> IN YOUR FACE FOR BUCKY'S SAKE. YOU ATTACK THE > >PEOPLE HE LOVED THE MOST IN HIS LIFE AND IN THATRESPECT YOU ARE A FOOL. = IF YOU SAY >YOU ARE SORRY >AS BUCKY WOULD SAY THEN IT IS OK IF YOU REALLY >MEAN IT. I WILL BE WATCHING YOU EVERY MOVE SO KEEP >OUT OF THE FAMILY HEART YOU ARE NOT INVITED. I am not at all sorry for my actions, either with regard to trying to boost the BFI (a non-remunerative position -- I did the first website at no charge, simply because I thought BFI should at least have a web presence, if it wasn't to make the Fuller School look completely monkey- brained) or with regard to sharing what I know about its history. > FINI, I A SORRY TO PUT KIRBY URNER IN HIS PLACE ALL THE >TIME BUT SOMEONE HAS TO PROTECT THE LIFE AND TIMES You haven't "put me in my place" -- you've merely given me an opportunity to file some more narrative accounts to the Geodesic archives, for the information of future scholars who want to assemble a picture of the historical record. >NOT THE MESSENGER. HE IS A WEB TOURIST AGAINST THE >FULLER FAMILY AND SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED. HE HAS NO I am one player among many and have been direct and clear with those with= =20 whom I have serious differences or concerns, not going behind their backs= =20 or plotting in secret. And that includes with you, whom I consider one=20 of Bucky's worst students ever (his "to whom it may concern" letter=20 notwithstanding -- why did he feel we'd be concerned?). >AFFILIATION WITH BUCKMINSTER FULLER OTHER THAN AN >INSIDE KEN STAR THAT HAS TURNED SELFISH AND ANGRY I am not especially angry as I write this. My 4 year old is playing a Magic School Bus CDROM in the background, while my wife attends a=20 business meeting. This morning I went to Kinkos and did a lot of=20 photocopying. On Monday I turn 41 (my friend Matt is taking me out for dinner tonight, while my wife and kid go to yet another business meeting and potluck). >BECAUSE HE CANNOT RESPECT GESTATION RATES OF THE >UNIVERSE AND BLAMES IT ON ANYONE THAT WILL MAKE You use this "gestation rates" thing to excuse any amount of = incompetence. Blame the Universe. Easy to do. All talk and no walk. >HIM LOOK MORE SMARTER AND POWERFUL TO ALL NEW >COMERS. PLEASE IGNORE HIS INSULTS TO THE FULLER >FAMILY THEY ARE NOT TRUE OR HARMLESS. I feel sorry for Allegra (she has felt very burdened by this Archives=20 thing and at one point promised to find a new home for it -- the upshot=20 of all this trauma and drama prompted by the enforced departure of Tony and Bonnie). I have no quarrel at all with Alexandra, whom I've never=20 met. >THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR PATIENCE IN THIS FLAME >WAR OVER WHETHER BUCKY' S FAMILY HAS INTEGRITY. >IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT NEW PEOPLE UNDERSTAND >THAT THE NET HAS PEOPLE LIKE KIRBY URNER ON IT THAT >USE IT TO SPREAD RUMORS. I'm not spreading "rumors". I'm recounting historical events in which I was myself a key player, had first hand knowledge. It makes sense=20 that I should share this information for the benefit of future scholars. >HE IS THE DARTH VADER OF THE BUCKMINSTER FULLER >INSTITUTE. PLEASE EVERYONE IGNORE HIM. PLUS HE >DOES NOT KNOW WHAT PRECESSION MEANS, WHICH >IS THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL EVENT OF SYNERGETICS. >"kirby" YOU MAY HAVE YOUR CLOSING STATEMENT NOW >STUPID. Using all capital letters is called "shouting" and is generally=20 considered poor form. But I guess you really are shouting in this case. That's because you have nothing intelligent to say in response to my accounts, which are factually based. History is not about everybody being angels and saints. Certainly I'm neither. I'm a mortal being with foibles and faults. But I'm not about to bend over backwards to cover for the everybody else=20 either. There's work to be done and part of what creates bottlenecks is people being stingey with the truth -- including and especially when the truth isn't all that pretty to look at. I'll be accountable for plenty when all is said and done -- but I will=20 not go around trying to defend what I consider to be inexcusable=20 behavior (including yours). I was not put on this planet to cover everybody's ass. I've made some choices about what teams I'm willing to play on, what others to peel off from. I will continue to exercise my freedoms in this regard. I'm not trying to "please everyone" or be liked by "voters". I'm not a politician. I'm not running for=20 office. I have the freedom and the right to express my viewpoint and to=20 record it for posterity. You have NO right to stop me. So please don't even try. I've certainly done nothing to interfere with your posting to any listservs (although you've accused me of doing so). Kirby PS: I'm expecting a spate of follow-up posts telling us to keep=20 this to private email and not use a public listserv for these=20 postings. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this is=20 the historical record and the public has a "right to know" -- especially those most concerned with and invested in the Fuller School. Trying to keep all skeletons in the closet is the mark of an immature school of thought. Fuller himself was very public about his private life when he felt called to be. He wrote that letter to Erhard knowing full well it would eventually become a part of the permanent record. This is useful follow-up and=20 commentary. Geodesic is NOT an inappropriate vehicle for the distribution of this information. 'Nuff said. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 16:44:43 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Response to MSM's irrelevant spamming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Kirby > > > > PS: remember, Syn-L has its groundrules, including: > > > > Membership is revocable > > > > 4D Solutions reserves the right to unsubscribe, suspend, > > or permanently ban any poster who consistently spams > > the list with irrelevant posts. > > > > [http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/Synergetics-L/synl.html] > > > > Dumping your Geodesic stuff here, out of context, is out of > > line. Consider yourself warned. > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com > > What am I spamming that is not in the rules. ? > Michael S. Mitchell > I mentioned the spiral in another posts before. > You stated that precession did not have axis or orbit. > I found the definition by bucky to be multiple spins. > How am I wrong? > You challenged me and I responded and succeeded > to prove what I stated before. > I did audio tapes of Bucky at EST by the way. > Now again how am I spamming and what is spamming > exactly, porno adds or something. Thank you for allowing > me on the list I do not want you to kick me off because you > can not face the truth so tell me why you think I deserve this > and I will stop doing that. I wish to be a good person on the > list as a whole for all humanities sake. To represent the > average person that I am. My point about the archive is > that Fuller's blood is the main part of the archive and giving > the family money is helping keep the archive healthy. > You are not part of the archive in that way nor am I. > but it Allegra, Jamie, Alexandra is and I am for preserving > them as part of the archive as he would as well. > Take a deep breath and face the music. > LOVE mickey. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 01:33:49 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Response to MSM's irrelevant spamming Comments: cc: setebos@wolfenet.com In-Reply-To: <373DA47A.BE3D6514@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 15 May 1999 16:44:43 +0000, you wrote: >> > Kirby >> > >> > PS: remember, Syn-L has its groundrules, including: >> > >> > Membership is revocable >> > >> > 4D Solutions reserves the right to unsubscribe, suspend, >> > or permanently ban any poster who consistently spams >> > the list with irrelevant posts. >> > >> > [http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/Synergetics-L/synl.html] >> > >> > Dumping your Geodesic stuff here, out of context, is out of >> > line. Consider yourself warned. >> > >> > --- >> > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: = syntrivity@earthlink.net >> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to = leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com >> >> What am I spamming that is not in the rules. ? >> Michael S. Mitchell >> I mentioned the spiral in another posts before. >> You stated that precession did not have axis or orbit. >> I found the definition by bucky to be multiple spins. >> How am I wrong? So far so good -- that was our discussion on Synergetics-L, about precession. I mentioned here on Geodesic that I'd let people=20 know how it turned out -- referred them to my links page if=20 they wanted to follow blow by blow (through the Synergetics-L web interface). >> You challenged me and I responded and succeeded >> to prove what I stated before. No, you've persisted with a narrow view of what precession is, part of your overall dumbing down program vis-a-vis synergetics. >> I did audio tapes of Bucky at EST by the way. >> Now again how am I spamming and what is spamming >> exactly, porno adds or something. Thank you for allowing >> me on the list I do not want you to kick me off because you >> can not face the truth so tell me why you think I deserve this >> and I will stop doing that. I wish to be a good person on the >> list as a whole for all humanities sake. To represent the >> average person that I am. My point about the archive is >> that Fuller's blood is the main part of the archive and giving >> the family money is helping keep the archive healthy. >> You are not part of the archive in that way nor am I. >> but it Allegra, Jamie, Alexandra is and I am for preserving >> them as part of the archive as he would as well. This is where you are spamming, from the point of view of=20 Synergetics-L, because this whole discussion about "the family" (as you define it) and BFI's history is taking place here on Geodesic, not over there on Synergetics-L. Over there we were just talking about synergetics, and specifically=20 precession. You have spammed by sloppily cross-posting=20 all the Geodesic stuff to Synergetics-L, because you have no ability to track the fact that we're doing different=20 threads on different lists. >> Take a deep breath and face the music. >> LOVE mickey. I am now going to go over to Synergetics-L and see if all this crap about "the archive is Fuller's blood" stuff is over there on my list, where I define it to be spam, because not germane to any threads, because people over there, if interested,=20 could follow through the web interface over here. If you've abused my list by cross-posting, after I gave you fair warning, then I will unsubscribe you from Synergetics-L and never let you back on. Kirby Listowner Synergetics-L Cc: Karl Erickson, co-Listowner PS: you may accuse me of being petty, but I think I've given you plenty of leeway. Go start your own "Unitivity" list if you want to preach about your dumbed down version of Synergetics. That's right, I've just checked Synergetics-L and you have=20 indeed slopped our flame war over onto that other list, where we were only talking about Fuller's meaning of precession. Even after I warned you to confine your flaming of me to this list, where the discussion re BFI has been ongoing. So I'm deleting you from my Synergetics-L. A birthday present to=20 myself -- well earned. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:56:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Response to MSM's irrelevant spamming Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have done this many times being on both lists. We have discussed this many times on both lists. If you want to be the Hitler of the list then it will show your lack of honesty in my mind. I did not know this is spamming anyway. If you would have stated that you can spam and I can not then I would not have done it. But just as you turn on Allegra and the BFI I hope many people stop using your list for the reason that you are so selfish. I do not want to leave the list if possible for I have had many great conversations with others. Do what ever I have only responded to you. You can't take the heat it looks like to me. If you think your position to BFI and the Fuller Family is not relevant to the synergetic list I think you must be crazy. YOU ARE USING THE LIST THAT IS THE ARCHIVE THAT THE BFI HAS MADE AVAILABLE TO YOU. Kirby Urner wrote: > On Sat, 15 May 1999 16:44:43 +0000, you wrote: > > >> > Kirby > >> > > >> > PS: remember, Syn-L has its groundrules, including: > >> > > >> > Membership is revocable > >> > > >> > 4D Solutions reserves the right to unsubscribe, suspend, > >> > or permanently ban any poster who consistently spams > >> > the list with irrelevant posts. > >> > > >> > [http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/Synergetics-L/synl.html] > >> > > >> > Dumping your Geodesic stuff here, out of context, is out of > >> > line. Consider yourself warned. > >> > > >> > --- > >> > You are currently subscribed to synergetics-l as: syntrivity@earthlink.net > >> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-synergetics-l-20117O@telelists.com > >> > >> What am I spamming that is not in the rules. ? > >> Michael S. Mitchell > >> I mentioned the spiral in another posts before. > >> You stated that precession did not have axis or orbit. > >> I found the definition by bucky to be multiple spins. > >> How am I wrong? > > So far so good -- that was our discussion on Synergetics-L, about > precession. I mentioned here on Geodesic that I'd let people > know how it turned out -- referred them to my links page if > they wanted to follow blow by blow (through the Synergetics-L > web interface). > > >> You challenged me and I responded and succeeded > >> to prove what I stated before. > > No, you've persisted with a narrow view of what precession is, > part of your overall dumbing down program vis-a-vis synergetics. > > >> I did audio tapes of Bucky at EST by the way. > >> Now again how am I spamming and what is spamming > >> exactly, porno adds or something. Thank you for allowing > >> me on the list I do not want you to kick me off because you > >> can not face the truth so tell me why you think I deserve this > >> and I will stop doing that. I wish to be a good person on the > >> list as a whole for all humanities sake. To represent the > >> average person that I am. My point about the archive is > >> that Fuller's blood is the main part of the archive and giving > >> the family money is helping keep the archive healthy. > >> You are not part of the archive in that way nor am I. > >> but it Allegra, Jamie, Alexandra is and I am for preserving > >> them as part of the archive as he would as well. > > This is where you are spamming, from the point of view of > Synergetics-L, because this whole discussion about "the family" > (as you define it) and BFI's history is taking place here on > Geodesic, not over there on Synergetics-L. Over there we > were just talking about synergetics, and specifically > precession. You have spammed by sloppily cross-posting > all the Geodesic stuff to Synergetics-L, because you have > no ability to track the fact that we're doing different > threads on different lists. > > >> Take a deep breath and face the music. > >> LOVE mickey. > > I am now going to go over to Synergetics-L and see if all this > crap about "the archive is Fuller's blood" stuff is over there > on my list, where I define it to be spam, because not germane > to any threads, because people over there, if interested, > could follow through the web interface over here. If you've > abused my list by cross-posting, after I gave you fair warning, > then I will unsubscribe you from Synergetics-L and never let > you back on. > > Kirby > Listowner > Synergetics-L > > Cc: Karl Erickson, co-Listowner > > PS: you may accuse me of being petty, but I think I've given > you plenty of leeway. Go start your own "Unitivity" list if > you want to preach about your dumbed down version of Synergetics. > That's right, I've just checked Synergetics-L and you have > indeed slopped our flame war over onto that other list, where > we were only talking about Fuller's meaning of precession. > Even after I warned you to confine your flaming of me to this > list, where the discussion re BFI has been ongoing. So I'm > deleting you from my Synergetics-L. A birthday present to > myself -- well earned. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 01:58:16 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Link added from Synergetics on the Web In-Reply-To: <373DA47A.BE3D6514@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Given I've posted a lot this month re the history of the BFI (my personal perspective), I've added the following link to my http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bfihist.html : * Follow-up to the above personal account on Geodesic (searchable), especially in May, 1999=20 with the words "Geodesic" and "May, 1999" both hyperlinked. This will make it easier for scholars to omnitriangulate, by learning of my views (whether they agree, disagree, remain=20 neutral or whatever is a different story -- and not=20 necessarily my concern). Synergetics on the Web gets about 20,000 visitors a month. However, the bfihist.html is not a top-ranked page, is only discovered by those following posts such as this, or making a serious study of my somewhat labyrinthine website(s). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 02:07:52 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: [synergetics-l] Response to MSM's irrelevant spamming In-Reply-To: <373DB54C.23827467@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 15 May 1999 17:56:29 +0000, you wrote: >You have done this many times being on both lists. Yes, I have cross-posted. I stated that from the outset. >We have discussed this many times on both lists. And I have done my best to inform you of what would=20 constitute abuse of the ability to cross-post material. >If you want to be the Hitler of the list then it will show >your lack of honesty in my mind. I did not know this That's fine with me. That's my list over there. =20 I set it up and pay for it. Many listowners have far=20 less liberal policies than I do. You are free to=20 start your own list. >is spamming anyway. If you would have stated >that you can spam and I can not then I would not >have done it. But just as you turn on Allegra and I did so state. I pointed out specifically what I=20 considered spamming, an abusive incursion of this=20 flame war onto that other list, where we were supposed to have a civil conversation about precession, going to the 'Synergetics' text as necessary to bolster our respective views. That's all. You chose to let your flames go over there, where they had no place. I=20 warned you to stop. You disregarded my warning. >the BFI I hope many people stop using your list for >the reason that you are so selfish. I do not want >to leave the list if possible for I have had many >great conversations with others. Do what You are free to keep reading the archives, which are web interfaced. You can start your own list and recruit people from Synergetics-L and/or Geodesic or wherever. And just because they sign up for your list doesn't mean they have to drop off of any others -- although that's the personal choice of a subscriber, not a=20 decision I have anything to do with. >ever I have only responded to you. You can't take the >heat it looks like to me. If you think your position I've put up with your crap on my list for many many=20 months, and let you get away with a flagrant violation of another ground rule, when you tried to hawk some=20 stupid bus or taxi route from the LA airport to Disneyland. Trully spam. I should have unsubscribed your right then and there, but I was trying to prove how liberal were=20 a listowner I could be. I'm done trying to prove that, in your case. >to BFI and the Fuller Family is not relevant to the synergetic >list I think you must be crazy. YOU ARE USING THE >LIST THAT IS THE ARCHIVE THAT THE BFI HAS >MADE AVAILABLE TO YOU. I no idea what this last sentence means. Synergetics-L is not underwritten or supported by the BFI in any way. Never was. Ciao for now. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:12:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Demonstrations and Meetings in Greater Los Angeles <> Brian Hutchings 16-MAY-1999 19:12 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Demonstrations and Meetings to STOP the Balkan Bombing; COURTMARTIAL NATO GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Immediate Congressional Investigation of Belgrade China Embassy Bombing! -------------------------------------------------- Monday, May 17th, 9 AM -- Picket line in front of the orrices of Rep.Maxine Waters, 10124 S.Broadway, Los Angeles Monday, 10 AM (meeting) -- Meet in front of the Offices of Rep.James Rogan 199 S.Los Robles, Pasadena Tuesday, May 18th, 4 PM -- Picket line in front of Offices of Rep.Loretta Sanchez 12397 Lewis St., Garden Grove Thursday, may 20th, 12:30 to 5 PM -- Picket & participate in teach-in, sponsored by Global Peace and Conflict Studies, U.California, Irvine: 12:30 to 2 PM -- Student Center, Monarch Bay A; 3:30 to 5 PM -- SSPA 1100 Sunday, May 23, 3 to 7 PM -- Americans for Democratic Action Teach-in, leaflet and participate 1300 N.Sepulveda, Los Angeles (synagogue across from Getty Center; not free, but broadcast by Pacifica Radio Network) --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:43:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Demonstrations and Meetings in Greater Los Angeles <> Brian Hutchings 16-MAY-1999 19:43 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Join the Franklin Club -- defeat the warmonger policies of Al Gore "Jayar", George Bush "Jayar", and Prime Minister Tinny Blare! Call 323/259-1860. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:59:49 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: BFVI STATS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear joe I got the stuff but how do you put it on your site. I have had so many bits in the last few days I am stunned. My site went from 16 megs to 31 megs in 5 days how much is this on an earthlink site? Where do it put the hit box info up at. on my site like a link button? or what? HELP! Any way it sure is an interesting view of your site. You get 35% of your links from the bfi. WOW that is great. You have the greatest RBF site in theworld./ How does that feel champ. Congratulations.! Joe S Moore wrote: > If anyone is interested, the stats for my website can be viewed at: > http://w101.hitbox.com/Stats?hb=W34903035542 > > Joe S Moore > mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:51:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Salahoddin Homayon Subject: A Loving Message ; An Industrial Engineer Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Reader ; Hello, I hope to be OK . I'm an Iranian boy whose my name is " Salahoddin homayon " and 28 years old. I'm Industrial Engineer who works as Direct Manager Deputy in a Head Lamp producer Mfg. My hobbies is Sport , Music , movie and also i'm interested in Physic , Mathematics , Psychology and Social Engineering . I have athletic body and black brown hair & eyes. My purpose of making friend is : get acquaint with World's people and their cultures + A long time friendship . I love blond girle with blue eyes . I'll be glad from your Positive response. MY E-Mail is : Salah@azad.ac.ir thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:51:03 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Subject: Superprojected, Semiprojected, and Subprojected Geodesics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEA484.0A9AAD60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEA484.0A9AAD60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My latest effort involves parameterizing the geodesic projection, = leading to a continuum of surfaces, puckered through bulbous, with the = unprojected and circumspherical projection as special cases. http://w3.one.net/~monkey/geodesics/project Paper shell models (including patterns so you can make your own) and = VRML renderings of internal and external octet trusses are provided. - Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEA484.0A9AAD60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My latest effort involves = parameterizing the=20 geodesic projection, leading to a continuum of surfaces, puckered = through=20 bulbous, with the unprojected and circumspherical projection as special=20 cases.
 
    http://w3.one.net/~m= onkey/geodesics/project
 
Paper shell models (including patterns so you can = make your=20 own) and VRML renderings of internal and external octet trusses are=20 provided.
 
- Dave
 
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEA484.0A9AAD60-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:45:04 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Superprojected, Semiprojected, and Subprojected Geodesics In-Reply-To: <000701bea4a5$922af340$d3c270ce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 22 May 1999 18:51:03 -0400, you wrote: >My latest effort involves parameterizing the geodesic projection,=20 >leading to a continuum of surfaces, puckered through bulbous,=20 >with the unprojected and circumspherical projection as special cases. > > http://w3.one.net/~monkey/geodesics/project > >Paper shell models (including patterns so you can make your own)=20 >and VRML renderings of internal and external octet trusses are provided. > >- Dave Interesting work Dave. Good use of color in the VRMLs. Are you=20 using Java to write your wrl files? I'm running behind on some of these topics and so don't really=20 get the terminology of internal vs. external warped IVM vis-a-vis the geodesic tetrahedron. Looking at: http://w3.one.net/~monkey/geodesics/project/t5i-10.wrl I'm wondering if that red triangle is supposed to be flat, and=20 why, if it is, the internal triangles don't all appear to be the same. That's just idle thoughts while eyeballing your gorgeous creations. I've for some time linked to your site from my short list at=20 http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeres.html as I think students will benefit from you combined hands on + computerized approach, with a lot of the math made quite explicit, Hugh Kenner style. Plus you remind me of Joe Clinton in a lot of ways -- both superstars in the first generation of Fuller Schoolers. Speaking of the Fuller School, I was gratified to have my office desktop bumped up to an AMD 400 Mhz w/ 64M RAM and Apollo Banshee w/ 3dfx Voodoo chipset (16M video RAM). This VRML stuff really works quite well. Had to move to Win98 (pre OSR2 Win95 not=20 compatible with AMD 400) and reinstall CosmoPlayer 2.1. I have you to thank for motivating that last step, even in the midst of so much other stuff (a real war zone around here). Chat more soon. Keep up the great work. Glad you have the time and resources to keep exploring the endless possibilities re geodesic math. Kirby PS: I see from up close that that red triangle isn't flat. I suppose if I explore your website in more detail I'll=20 figure out what you're doing with the "warped octet truss". ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:16:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: World Watch Institute Global Index for 1998 Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The BBC article below is a summary of the findings of the World Watch Institute for 1998. Fuller paid close attention to such global trends and generated quite a few of his own. Unfortunately, some of these findings indicate humanity's lack of success in Universe: a decision towards oblivion instead of utopia. I, however, continue to question whether global warming is primarily a byproduct of human activity or primarily a return to the normal temperature of the planet (warmer) as indicated by the soil record. I continue to question the existence of 'overpopulation' when the evidence I trust indicates underindustrialization and greed. And I continue to urge Fuller students to follow his lead: study all the data and focus on that which leads to the success of humanity in Universe. There are an endless number of doomsayers, some well informed and _most_ not, but we who dare to say (1) we have a chance (2) here's how to do it are very few and must be consistant and positive. Leave the apocalypse and in-fighting to the rest, our job is to create the artifacts that render the conflict obsolete and map out humanity's success in Universe. Debate the doomsayers and you will always be in their arena: demonstrate the design science revolution and you will always be in an arena they cannot even triangulate. Linkname: BBC News | Sci/Tech | Global stresses leave their mark http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsid_350000/350616.stm Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:56:07 GMT - Trevor Blake -- http://www.box2321.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 18:07:54 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Michael S. Mitchell" Subject: Re: World Watch Institute Global Index for 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit P. O. Box 2321 wrote: > The BBC article below is a summary of the findings of the World Watch > Institute for 1998. Fuller paid close attention to such global trends and > generated quite a few of his own. In regard that he had a few of his own. And he paid close attention toworld statistics. He started the whole idea period. The only global thinking was for war, until he came along. His world Resources Inventory was the only place on earth that was collecting world data in Carbondale Illinois with John Mc Hale starting around 1960. Comprehensive design science was the origin of world game and that is what world game came out of and it originated in Carbondale Illinois in 1967. I was there. I drew the first energy grid on a world map ever in his basement office and the first one on a dymaxion map. Myself and Michael Pattera. Dale Klaus was head of the office and Naomi Smith was the secretary. Mr Brown came out with the world report many many years latter. I am only saying this to set the record straight. Bucky spoke in front of the United Nations and they got into the act after that. Bucky started World resource inventory in Carbondale the home of the geodesic dome which was on the letter head of Mayor Keene of Carbondale. It is now home of the original bucky ball dome home of the inventor R. Buckminster Fuller. I own it. The first dome home of Bucky and Anne Fuller. It was the first single family dome designed by Bucky off the assembly live in New York, of the Pease Dome Company. Built April 28, 1960 in Carbondale Illinois where bucky was first given a professorship by Delyte W. Morse president of Southern Illinois University. Bucky was paid 12K per year and made world fellow in residence and could speak in any department something un heard of in this day and age. Like a letter of patent from a king in the early days. Bucky advanced the university's reputation more than another person at SIU and help build it to the world class university it is today. Bucky would ride a cushman motor scooter to the design department that was designed around him in the early origin of the department. Bucky made his first 60 hour lecture here in Carbondale in 1960 and I am my mother took the tapes from the design department and transcribe them in 1967 and 68. They are in the Buckminster Fuller Archives at the Honorable Buckminster Fuller Institute in Santa Barbara. Please donate money to the BfI to help keep the archive maintained, if anything is not in good shape it is the fault of people that do not donate to help it. I have donated well over 50,000 dollars of times and money to the archive since 1966 when I met bucky and anne at a poetry reading of Gene Fowler Whom may be reached at pdx4d@teleport.com Ask him. I had cookies with them at that time. Michael S. Mitchell http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html At the time he lived in Carbondale when he built the dome that is in the above site he owned a Citron car that Dale Klaus bought from him in around 1969. He looked at the dome he designed above as a conk shell design. He would spiral out of the dome first out of bed then in the shower and then to the kitchen and the living room and out the door to the motor scooter and out the drive unwinding as he went when he came home it was opposite he would wind back into bed. The second floor is a library that he would play classic music and study or write. Education Automation was published by SIU press, he wrote and did most of his greatest ideas while in this humble dome home in the middle of the USA as he went around the world Anne would stay and wait for him here or visit family in Pacific Palisades, Ca. In the late summer he would go to Bear Island Maine. The dome in Carbondale is the first and only Frank Loyd Wright type dome he ever owned and designed and lived in. He was interviews by Walter Cronkite in the dome in SIU for the 21st Century TV program and went from the dome to the White house 3 times. He live here when he built the worlds fair dome in 1967. It is an artifact of world history and some day it will be considered the most humble and important place on earth for the ideas that sprang from this dome will save the world at large and has already made it clear from his work that we may not be here now if it were not for Bucky Fuller and his lecturing all over the world to an average of 3 thousand people a week for 40 years or so. The world has a chance to make it work if he is listened to and built on for the future. The design science revolution must if we survive be understood by our leaders. If now hell on earth,. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:48:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: World Watch Institute Global Index for 199 <> Brian Hutchings 23-MAY-1999 21:48 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us FLASH: Carbondale Targetted by NATO !! (just kidding .-) this is not quite correct, however poetical. of course, every "world empire", however circumscribed at the time, had some sort of a "world game" going on. at the time of Adam Smith, Thomas Malthus et al, it was Haileyborough College, the econometrics unit of the Br.E.India Co., which was also the actual government. nowadays, since They changed the name to the Commonwealth, the ruling body is the Privy Council, and the "great gamers" have dyspersed amongst academia & business, but Sun *still* never "rises" upon it; does it? I hate to take all of the shock out o'the wave, but what you refer to as "the anticipatory design science revolution", we referred to as the American one, against the former-and- still-existent entity, above. for short, a republic. it may be that Alvin Toffler got "anticipatory democracy" out of that phraseology -- as the replacement for the obsoletion of a democratic republic -- but that does not make the New Info Age any less oligarchical. no funky icosahedral projection, or transverse mercataor, or what-have-you, is going to be a deciding fator in this, if it makes any difference, at all (rather, it is the method *of* projecting that is of primary importance, in total); is it? thus quoth: In regard that he had a few of his own. And he paid close attention toworld statistics. He started the whole idea period. The only global thinking was for war, until he came along. His world Resources Inventory was the only place on earth that was collecting world data in Carbondale Illinois --The Duke of Oil! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:57:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: BACK ONLINE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm back online--will try to catch up on my mail ASAP. Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:53:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: BUCKY'S OMNI-MEDIUM TRANSPORT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sci/Tech: Flying car ready for take-off (BBC online News) http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_354000/354129.stm Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:17:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: OMNI-MEDIUM TRANSPORT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cover story of the current issue of the New Scientist magazine (England): http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19990529/imjustflyi.html Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 21:30:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: GEODESIC DOMES Comments: To: mail@donmay.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr May, To your knowledge, is anybody building residential geodesic domes using steel framing? Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:35:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: BUCKY SITE IN JAPAN Comments: To: iga@mandala.ne.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An excellent Japanese language site about Fuller: http://zappa.amr.co.jp/~iga/ Joe S Moore mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/