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Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 00:00:01 -0700
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Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

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                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 16:32:19 +0000
Reply-To:     spaceshipearth@mail.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         spaceshipearth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      Neumatic Universe News
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Light Exceeds Its Own Speed Limit, or Does It? The speed of light
traveling through a vacuum is about 186,000 miles per second, but
send a pulse of light through a transparent chamber filled with
specially prepared cesium gas and how fast will it go?
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/053000sci-physics-light.html

Physicists Fret About Nothing: Distant galaxies are being swept
apart, ever faster, by a tide formed of apparently empty space.
To explain their observations, scientists say, they must answer a
question that sounds paradoxical: How much does emptiness weigh?
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/113099sci-space-galaxies.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:00:54 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Military Chaplains

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   01-JUN-2000  8:00
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I think you need to make a better case,
 than giving the example of the chaplaincies of the Anglican Communion!

 thus quoth:
  Military chaplains in other countries, such as Canada, do not hold military
  rank.  I propose that we urge the Catholic Military Ordinariate and our
  government to change its policies regarding those assigned chaplaincy roles

 as it is, our own chaplaincy is overgrown,
 in most nominal denominations, with a rabid pentacostalism
 (see http://www.larouchepub.com/ahc.html);
 that is to say, rather literalist in their readings!
    the technical term for these fellows, and ladies,
 is Yahoo!s (tm).

 --The End Was Nigh!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:08:49 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Neumatic Universe News

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   01-JUN-2000  8:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 sorry, but I cannot abide a) being on their junkmail list and b)
 "subscribing" in the firstplace to that Tory rag, the NYTimes
 -- gospel for too-many professional Yahoo!s (tm) !!
    if you could quote briefly or, better yet,
 put into your own typingspeed, the gist of these uncoveries,
 that'd be very helpful.  question:
 Is there an implied or explicated belief in the Biggus Bangus?

 thank you, Alfre E. Neumatic!

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www,tarpley.net/bushint.htm

 thus quoth:
 http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/053000sci-physics-light.html
 http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/113099sci-space-galaxies.html

 now; why do you buh-LIEVE in The Vacuum --
 Nature loves a Fuller Spaceman?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:28:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] BioDiversity [etc.]

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   01-JUN-2000  8:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Aung is such a breeteesh provacateur, in my opinion,
 what I refer to as a "Democracy (Now!) schmuck;"
 that is, a jacobin (vis-a-vu the French Revolution's Bloody Terror).
 virtually all of the "news" is funnelled via Reuters, that is,
 Ye Olde British Colnial Wire-service;
 it is a completely & lawfully "orwellian" situation.
    by the way, http://www.nobelweb.org/>http://www.nobelweb.org
 was 404 (not found), so it's hard to say what the emergency is, here.
 suffice it to say, the use of the Nobel to attack small nations,
 has been going on for some time; the hacks!

 thuw quoth:
   > THIS MAY SAVE HER LIFE: PLEASE DO ACT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND CONTRIBUTE


 as for making SS fungible through junk-grade investments,
 most of it will go toward providing emergency liquidity
 for the huge losses in derivatives that bankers such
 as Citigroup, JPMorgan et al have set themselves "up" with
 -- bigtime; they dwarf their assets.

 thus quoth:
  melt the polar caps and float him back to Maryland, or,


 there was a good article in The Sciences, I think,
 about the relative (surprising) diversity of Savannah (Pampas?)
 in S.america.  the other good measure is,
 what happens during the shift from interglacial to glacial phase,
 or vise-versa (see the Nature article be G.Woillard,
 "Abrupt end of the Eemian interglacial *sensu strictu*"
 based upon her palynology in France.

 --Panama Deception!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:46:06 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: WGI eNews 3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: <wgi@worldgame.org>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: WGI eNews 3


> Dear Friend,
> The following is being sent to you because of your inquiry into the work
> of the World Game Institute. If this reaches anyone who would would
> rather not receive it, we apologize for any trespass on your valuable
> time.  To unsubscribe, please send an email to wgi@worldgame.org with
> the subject heading "Unsubscribe".  Thank you.
>
>                   ======================
>                           WGI eNews
>                          May, 2000
>                        Volume 1, Issue 3
>                    ======================
>
>         WGI eNews is a periodic news communication from the
>                       World Game Institute
>
> The World Game:
> Empowering people to see, understand and act on complex global problems
>
> -------------
> In This Issue
> -------------
>
> 1. New Simulation for Discovery Center of Science and Technology
> 2. NetWorld Game Now Available to Classrooms
> 3. Capital Giving Funding Campaign Now Running
> 4. NWG 100: What ItĒs All About...
> 5. New World Game program: Teacher Staff Development
> 6. New World Game K-5 Program
> 7. World Game at the Council on Foundations annual meeting
> 8. WGI Global Simulation at corporate conference: read about it here!
>
> -----------------------------------------
> 1. New Simulation for Discovery Center of Science and Technology
> -----------------------------------------
> The World Game Institute designed and built an interactive role-playing
> simulation for the Discovery Center of Science and Technology in
> Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.  The "Manufacturing Simulation" is aimed at
> Middle School and high school students.  In the simulation, students are
> placed in charge of one of three microchip manufacturing corporations:
> Notorola, Lucement, or Outel Corporation.  Each corporation has a
> microchip design team and a microchip manufacturing team.  Students
> design and manufacture the microchips of the future.   Intended as a
> tool for educating students about job opportunities in the high
> technology area the simulation is both fun and informative.  For more
> information, and a look at some of the microchips of the future, see:
> http://www.discovery-center.org/worldgame/
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> 2. NetWorld Game Now Available to Classrooms
> -----------------------------------------
> NetWorld Game is now available to teachers throughout the world thanks
> to one of the latest additions to WGI's web site.  At the NetWorld Game
> Teacher Section teachers can start their own NetWorld Games, obtain the
> NetWorld Game Teacher's Manual, Student Workbook and User's Manual-all
> for a small user's fee.  After signing up on WGI's web site, teachers
> set up their game and receive a password that they pass on to their
> students.  NetWorld Game's content and process are core curriculum, tied
> into national and state educational standards-they just happen to also
> be interactive, involving and fun!  Another new feature allows the
> general public to set up NetWorld Games for free.  The only difference
> is these games need to be open to anyone-access to them is not password
> protected.  To see how you can participate:
> http://www.worldgame.org/teachnwg
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> 3.  Capital Giving Funding Campaign Now Running
> -----------------------------------------
> World Game Institute now has a new way for interested friends to support
> and participate in its activities. WGI and Capital Giving, an Internet
> service that helps nonprofits harness the power of the Internet to reach
> donors and increase donation online, have just launched a funding
> campaign.  Our "Teach the World/Learn the Planet" campaign matches each
> investment made.  Donations can be made online with a credit card at
> this secure site.  Funds go to support the development of the next
> generation of NetWorld Game and to continue to make NetWorld Games
> available to schools throughout the world.  As a special added bonus,
> all donors will be invited to play the first beta tests of the new
> NetWorld Game!  For more information, see:
>
http://www.givingcapital.com/campaign_content/campaign_home.adp?campaign_id=
1572
> &branded_p=f
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> 4. NWG 100: What ItĒs All About...
> -----------------------------------------
> NetWorld Game 100 is the new version of NetWorld Game.  Instead of
> dividing the world into ten regions, NWG100 has over 100 countries-plus
> multinational corporations and banks.  WGI will be beta-testing this new
> NetWorld Game this summer.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> 5. New World Game program: Teacher Staff Development
> -----------------------------------------
> WGI's Teach the World/Learn the Planet! Staff Development is a program
> that brings the world of experiential learning to social studies.
> Rarely is Chemistry, Physics or Biology taught without a laboratory
> component.  Yet it is even more rare that the social studies are taught
> with such an experiential aspect.  Teach the World/Learn the Planet! can
> be viewed as a program that brings a social science laboratory to
> teaching social studies.
>
> The Teach the World /Learn the Planet! Staff Development Workshops
> present interactive, involving, experiential activities that teachers
> can use in the classroom for teaching global studies, geography,
> history, current events, economics, political science and other
> subjects.   The Staff Development can be held either in conjunction with
> a World Game Workshop or as a stand-alone training.  Teachers receive
> teacher's manual and other materials.  Workshops can be focused on a
> number of topics, including WGI's Internet-based simulation NetWorld
> Game and other Internet based activities.  For more information see:
> http://www.worldgame.org/workshops/teachertraining.html
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> 6. New World Game K-5 Program
> -----------------------------------------
> WGI is proud to announce the availability of three new programs aimed at
> the K-5 crowd.  Made possible with a grant from the Heinz Endowments,
> the three programs are developmentally appropriate for K-1, Grades 2-3
> and Grades 4-5.  The first is titled, SPACESHIP EARTH: WHAT DO WE NEED?
> The second, SPACESHIP EARTH: HOW ARE WE CONNECTED/THE WEB OF LIFE and
> the third is, SPACESHIP EARTH: HOW DO WE ACT/KNOWLEDGE INTO ACTION.  All
> programs involve movement, song, art, dramatizations and a giant floor
> map.  For more information, check out our web site in the coming weeks!
>
> -----------------------------------------
> 7. World Game at the Council on Foundations annual meeting
> -----------------------------------------
> The World Game was featured at the recent Council on Foundation annual
> conference in Los Angeles.  A special version of the World Game
> simulation was customized for this event.  During the simulation,
> foundations were an active part of the global economy, helping to
> identify and solve global and local problems.  A history of philanthropy
> was incorporated into the workshop as well.  One of the more dramatic
> visuals showed how total foundation giving ($20 billion/year) is more
> than the governmental budgets of 124 countries.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> 8. WGI Global Simulation at corporate conference
> -----------------------------------------
> The Global Environmental Management Institute (GEMI) recently hosted the
> Global Simulation as part of their annual conference.  "The World Game:
> Hands-on Lessons In Sustainability & Social Responsibility" is their
> account of what happened. Check it out:
> http://www.eqg.com/spotlight/world_game_hands_on.htm
>
>
>
> FORWARD THIS ISSUE
> Please pass this newsletter along to anyone you feel it would be of
> value.  Thanks!
>
> WGI eNews is a periodic news communication from
> World Game Institute
> 3215 Race Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19104
> 215-387-0220
> Fax: 215-387-3009
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>
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> Copyright 2000 World Game Institute. All rights reserved.
>
>         The World Game: Empowering people to see, understand and act
>                             on complex global problems
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:48:32 +0000
Reply-To:     spaceshipearth@mail.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         spaceshipearth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      Re: Neumatic Universe News
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I forgot that you have to register for free to read the NY Times
online. I don't believe that they use your email address for
spam, anyway, any experienced internet user has a free webmail
address that they use for registering at such sites, or have
developed some other spam evasion techniques.

spaceshipearth@mail.com wrote:
>
> Light Exceeds Its Own Speed Limit, or Does It? The speed of light
> traveling through a vacuum is about 186,000 miles per second, but
> send a pulse of light through a transparent chamber filled with
> specially prepared cesium gas and how fast will it go?
> http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/053000sci-physics-light.html
>
> Physicists Fret About Nothing: Distant galaxies are being swept
> apart, ever faster, by a tide formed of apparently empty space.
> To explain their observations, scientists say, they must answer a
> question that sounds paradoxical: How much does emptiness weigh?
> http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/113099sci-space-galaxies.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 2000 04:19:28 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] florida

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   02-JUN-2000  4:19
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 thte one that I read (in the LATimes) was great;
 will any shrubbite argue with it?

 --The permian Basin Gang!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm

 thus quoth:
  send a message to <dks@alum.mit.edu> with "Send Krugman
  columns on SS" in the "Subject:" line).
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:44:35 +0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         chxh1@0451.COM
Subject:      subscribe
Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
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---------------------------------------------------------
;6S-J9SC:ZAz=-PEO"8[Cb7Q5gWSSJ<~O5M3http://www.hl.cninfo.net
0fH(KySP#::ZAz=-J!9+VZPEO"2zR5SPO^9+K>
5XV7#:9~6{1uJP5@@oGxNwJ.KD5@=V49:E
5g;0#:0451-4655169#,988
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:11:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Chernobyl Power Plant To Be Closed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Here's some good news:

http://news.excite.com/news/ap/000605/11/news-clinton-chernobyl

"The Chernobyl nuclear power plant, scene of the world's worst
nuclear accident, will close forever Dec. 15, President Leonid
Kuchma said today. He and President Clinton toasted the
announcement with champagne."

"The United States is helping finance the dismantling of
Chernobyl."

"Clinton said the United States would provide $78 million to
help efforts to contain radiation at the troubled plant, and
$2 million for safety measures at other nuclear power plants
in Ukraine."

"The announcement was good news to citizens such as Yulia
Dotsenko, 31. "I have a growing child and I hope for some
financial support to close down Chernobyl," Dotsenko said."

"Clinton praised Kuchma's economic policies, saying they have
helped move Ukraine toward "much higher living standards." He
announced a new five-year, $25 million business development
program to assist small and mid-sized businesses."

"A group of Ukrainian artists, meanwhile, chose their own way
to mark Clinton's visit, putting up posters that showed the
U.S. president playing a saxophone."
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:16:54 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      More re the Urner Approach to CP4E (computer programming for
              everybody)
Comments: To: edu-sig@python.org
Comments: cc: synergeo@egroups.com
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000606102829.0327abdc@pop.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My logic is simple:

  #1  Everybody should learn some math (a cultural given)
  #2  These days, that means some programming (extrapolation)

  ->> Ergo, everybody should learn some programming

Easy languages like Python, plus the fact that calculators have
already trailblazed a place for high tech in math ed, make
extrapolation #2 reasonable.

CP4E doesn't mean "everybody becomes a programmer" any more
than universal math (UM4E) means "everybody becomes a
mathematician".

What I'm resisting, with this approach, is the idea that we
need to teach "beginner programming" and "beginner math" as two
separate subjects, each with its own text books, web sites,
teachers, jargon.

That'd phase in too much redundancy in a curriculum that's
already way too overspecialize and fragmented as it is, as
per this quote by mathematician and luminary David Hestenes:

   http://www.egroups.com/message/synergeo/812

Text books like 'Concrete Mathematics' (Knuth et al, used at
Stanford), give a good idea of how the numeracy + computer
literacy genre is already well-established at the college
level.  What I'm attempting in my 'Numeracy + Computer Literacy'
series, is to "lower a ladder" to teachers working closer to
the high school level (or closer to my prototypical projection
of what _could_ be considered the high school level -- in a
possible near future).[1]

But one might ask:  even if we _start_ with early math ed and
programming concepts in the same incubator, at some point the
two will need to grow apart.  For example, how would a math
class make use of this idea of "objects", as in object oriented
programming.

I'm glad I asked this question.  I've done some thinking about
that, and think that when it comes to "OOP meets math", the way
to go is:  Polyhedra as Paradigm Objects.[2]  Where else do
computers strut their stuff so effectively, as in this realm
of spatial geometry (aka "videogame heaven")?  And what is
more purely mathematical and geometric, since ancient times,
than the polyhedra (Platonic, Archimedean, and all the rest
of it)?

With Polyhedra, you can have a superclass (Poly) and a lot of
subclasses (Tetra, Octa, Icosa...), with methods for scaling,
rotating, translating at the Poly level (once, for all), and
data specific to each specific poly (e.g. faces, coordinates),
defined at the subclass level.  Like this:

   class Poly:         # superclass
      # generic methods go here
      def rotate(self,axis,degrees)
      def scale(self,scalefactor)
      def translate(self,vector)

   class Tetra(Poly):  # subclass of Poly
      faces = [('A','B','C'),...]
      volume = 1

   class Octa(Poly)    # subclass of Poly
      faces = [('I','J','K'),...]
      volume = 4

   ....

I've already implemented the above design in several ways, in
Python, Java, and Xbase.  Works well, and gets us nifty graphics,
in Povray, VRML.[3]  But I'm not saying everybody needs to use
my source code.  No, I'm just saying this _idea_ (of Polys as
paradigm OOP objects) makes plenty of sense, is a potential
"grand central station" for convergent trains of thought, a
place from which to branch into numerous related areas.

Plus here's what, for me, is the clincher.  Recent advances in
pedagogy around polyhedra owing to the lifework of R. Buckminster
Fuller is a way to get a foot in the door for a new brand of
futurism that actually has a strong track record already.[4]
With "design science" making inroads in K-12 (i.e. pre-college
curriculum), we have the option to give kids inspiring and
hopeful (realistic, attainable) visions of positive futures,
much as we did in Apollo days.[5]

So for me, it's a pretty much a no brainer at this point:
CP4E, OOP with polyhedra, and RBF's concentric hierarchy, with
links to American Lit and positive futurism (lots of Hollywood
potential -- but a lot less escapist/phoney/fake than "24th
Century Federation Science", which is blockbuster stuff,
certainly, but not backed up by real know-how, the way
"Bucky Works" already is (Spaceship Earth is much more a
present reality than Starship Enterprise -- so let's get
on with the show!)).[6]

Kirby

[1] http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/numeracy0.html
[2] http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/trends2000.html
[3] http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/oop.html
[4] http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/volumes.html
[5] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bworks.html
[6] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:31:46 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] C.Jahnkow: East Timor call-in

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   06-JUN-2000 14:31
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 why are you so subconsciously siding with those,
 who consider any other federated entity, than their own,
 to be two-bit "empires" that must be dismembered
 into tiny micro-states?
    surely, the IMF must be held to account for the flowering
 of E.Timorese "independence," and looting
 by Commonwealth mining cartels (i.e.Australia's, nominally), and
 nascent conglomeration with Portugal?

 we are very aware of the work of Rep.Chris Smith,
 particularly with the British low-church group, CSI,
 in wholly creating a market for "slavery" in Sudan --
 just watch the "documentary" !!

 thus quoth:
  * Co-sponsor HR 4357, the East Timor Repatriation and Security Act of 2000,
 introduced by Representatives James McGovern (D-MA) and Chris Smith (R-NJ).
 (See explanation below.)

  * Co-sponsor HR 1063, the International Military Training Transparency and
 Accountability Act, introduced by Representatives Chris Smith and Lane Evans
 (D-IL), if they have not already done so. For a list of current co-sponsors
 of HR 4357 and HR 1063, please consult the ETAN website
 (http://www.etan.org/legislation/sponsor.htm).

 bumper stickers?

 Why doe not Sun rise on the British Empire?...
 THEY CHANGED THE NAME (in '75 !-)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:32:00 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Patrick Deschamps' VR#1 for a Wrinkle 2!
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360-degree view of Expo '67 dome by Patrick Deschamps:

 http://www.pasghetti.com/wrinkle2/deschamps1.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:24:36 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: "New Economy" versus Life Support
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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----- Original Message -----
From: <advanced_atheist@my-deja.com>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 9:32 PM
Subject: "New Economy" versus Life Support


> I'm curious as to what people in Fuller's school of thought make of the
> so-called "New Economy" and how it relates to the physically useful
> economy that generates what Fuller called Life Support.  Since all of
> this alleged new wealth doesn't seem to be improving living standards
> in off-Web countries -- not that it's doing all that much for the
> socially disadvantaged in "wired" countries -- I would like to read
> some Fullerite analysis.  Please post references to this newsgroup.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:48:22 +0100
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From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Design Museum
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Hello,

Is anyone else on this list resident in Britain?

Today's Guardian (the Space) has an article about Fuller, announcing an
exhibition about him at the Design Museum in London, running from 15 June to
15 October. There is a new book by Joachim Krausse and Claude Lichtenstein
accompanying the exhibition.

This is a very surprising and welcome development over here, where Fuller is
mostly known of only indirectly in respect of fullerenes.

The web-site http://www.designmuseum.org/ has no details as yet.


Paul Taylor.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:21:06 -0700
Reply-To:     emiguel@attglobal.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Miguel Marcos <mmarcos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Design Museum
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I've been seeing conflicting dates, some say summer, others say fall. Is the
summer date for sure?

Miguel
--- Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is anyone else on this list resident in Britain?
>
> Today's Guardian (the Space) has an article about Fuller, announcing an
> exhibition about him at the Design Museum in London, running from 15 June to
> 15 October. There is a new book by Joachim Krausse and Claude Lichtenstein
> accompanying the exhibition.
>
> This is a very surprising and welcome development over here, where Fuller is
> mostly known of only indirectly in respect of fullerenes.
>
> The web-site http://www.designmuseum.org/ has no details as yet.
>
>
> Paul Taylor.
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 05:33:55 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: "New Economy" versus Life Support

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   08-JUN-2000  5:33
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 >it's just wonder "electrons" full --
 >if you're stuck in your (or *a*) Rectal Display Unit.
 >        most of the larger banks (CitiGroup e.g.,
 >now merged with brokerage & insurance, since Clinton caved
 >into the rubberstamping of the violations
 >of the Glass-Stegall ('36) and Holding Company Acts ('52)
 >-- which were prosecutable under the RICO statutes) ...
 >are potentially bankrupt many times over,
 >due to their outlays in derivatives.
 >        (actually, much of our Fed-related recent policy and
 >diplomacy has been last-ditch efforts to staunch these losses, and
 >are playing the key role in trying to ram-through tht blight,
 >a.k.a. "Gush and/or Bore" -- as having no viable challengers;
 >this is supposedly to be achieved, by a total media black-out,
 >or white-out in the case of the Los Angeles "Tribune" and
 >the Daily News (which Times-Mirror has a mysterious, JOA-
 >presaging "option, that we are surely not going to take" !-)
 >
 >--The End Was Nigh!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm

 thus quoth:
  > so-called "New Economy" and how it relates to the physically useful
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 05:30:35 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r007883@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Fw: \"New Economy\" versus Life Support

MESSAGE from ="List 08-JUN-2000  4:44
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: <advanced_atheist@my-deja.com>
 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
 Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 9:32 PM
 Subject: "New Economy" versus Life Support


 > I'm curious as to what people in Fuller's school of thought make of the
 > so-called "New Economy" and how it relates to the physically useful
 > economy that generates what Fuller called Life Support.  Since all of
 > this alleged new wealth doesn't seem to be improving living standards
 > in off-Web countries -- not that it's doing all that much for the
 > socially disadvantaged in "wired" countries -- I would like to read
 > some Fullerite analysis.  Please post references to this newsgroup.
 >
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      08-JUN-2000  5:30
                 r007883@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it's just wonder "electrons" full --
 if you're stuck in your (or *a*) Rectal Display Unit.
         most of the larger banks (CitiGroup e.g.,
 now merged with brokerage & insurance, since Clinton caved
 into the rubberstamping of the violations
 of the Glass-Stegall ('36) and Holding Company Acts ('52)
 -- which were prosecutable under the RICO statutes) ...
 are potentially bankrupt many times over,
 due to their outlays in derivatives.
         (actually, much of our Fed-related recent policy and
 diplomacy has been last-ditch efforts to staunch these losses, and
 are playing the key role in trying to ram-through tht blight,
 a.k.a. "Gush and/or Bore" -- as having no viable challengers;
 this is supposedly to be achieved, by a total media black-out,
 or white-out in the case of the Los Angeles "Tribune" and
 the Daily News (which Times-Mirror has a mysterious, JOA-
 presaging "option, that we are surely not going to take" !-)

 --The End Was Nigh!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:09:52 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Social Security

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   08-JUN-2000  7:09
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 what do you mean by "at" ??
    the farcical matter is that,
 Reagan's SDI, that Bush is the supposed champeon of,
 was brought to him by Lyn (and his "back-channel dyscussions"
 with the SU) -- but it is *not* the same
 as what the Bushwhackers in his Administration ended-up with
 -- the missile-on-missile "NMD" falsity.

 thus quoth:
  program that is purely defensive and aimed at terrorist states and or rogue

 --The Thornburg Doctrine!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:15:47 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: "New Economy" versus Life Support

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   08-JUN-2000  7:15
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 ah, I should add,
 the "Republicans" R Them do have a challenger,
 their token-campaigner, alan Keyes.
    the Democrats have an actual challenge on their hands,
 which they are desperately seeking to dysinclude,
 totally, from the media, and from lawful selection of delegates,
 according to votes-gotten in primaries.  that is,
 it is state law in Arkansas, but the state Party immediately,
 last Wednesday, issued a statement that "all delegates will
 be given to Gore" or else!

 thus saith:
 >  >a.k.a. "Gush and/or Bore" -- as having no viable challengers;

 >  >--The End Was Nigh!
 >  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:18:43 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: "New Economy" versus Life Support

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   08-JUN-2000  7:18
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that is to say,
 these folks have been coerced, or convinced,
 to run virtual Nazi plebiscites (for Caucuses).

 --The duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jun 2000 03:29:24 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Need home for Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Need good home for Fuller's four volume dictionary.

A Fuller Explanation

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Need good home for Fuller's four volume =

dictionary.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A Fuller Explanation</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html">http://www.angelf=
ire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Jul 2018 21:10:56 +0000
Reply-To:     spaceshipearth@mail.com
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From:         spaceshipearth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      Re: Need home for Dictionary
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Where have you been and what are you talking about?

SpaceshipEarth@mail.com

> marksomers wrote:
>
> Need good home for Fuller's four volume dictionary.
>
> A Fuller Explanation
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:25:02 +0100
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Re: Design Museum
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----- Original Message -----
From: Miguel Marcos <mmarcos@YAHOO.COM>

> I've been seeing conflicting dates, some say summer, others say fall. Is
the
> summer date for sure?

> > Today's Guardian (the Space) has an article about Fuller, announcing an
> > exhibition about him at the Design Museum in London, running from 15
June to
> > 15 October. There is a new book by Joachim Krausse and Claude
Lichtenstein
> > accompanying the exhibition.

Those dates are specified in the newspaper, and there's no conflict: it
starts in the summer, and ends in the autumn.

I am keen to find out more about it, and will post a report of my visit.

I take it that I am the only UK subscriber.


Paul Taylor.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:43:52 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Need home for Dictionary
In-Reply-To:  <004701bfd1f5$33e372c0$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:29 AM 06/09/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Need good home for
Fuller's four volume dictionary.

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>A Fuller Explanation

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><<http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html>http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html

</smaller></fontfamily>

</excerpt><<<<<<<<


This post is a little confusing.


'A Fuller Explanation' is Amy Edmondson's

'The Synergetics Dictionary' (4 vols) is E.J. Applewhite's


Mark has graciously put the former on line.  I am

unaware that anyone has scanned the latter.


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:36:55 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      New home
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sorry about the confusion. the online version of "A Fuller Explanation" =
is OK for now.=20

I'd like to find a place for the copy of the Dictionary I have though. A =
University Library?=20

Thanks,=20
Mark

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry about the confusion. the online =
version of "A=20
Fuller Explanation" is OK for now. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'd like to find a place for the copy =
of the=20
Dictionary I have though. A University Library? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:22:20 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: New home
In-Reply-To:  <001001bfd30a$dc1105a0$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:36 PM 06/10/2000 -0600, marksomers wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Sorry about the
confusion. the online version of "A Fuller Explanation" is OK for now.

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I'd like to find a place for the
copy of the Dictionary I have though. A University Library?

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Thanks,

Mark

</smaller></fontfamily>

</excerpt><<<<<<<<


It's worth quite a bit.  Bet you could sell for big

bucks.  But if you want to donate, to some worthy

think tank or library sounds like a plan.


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jun 2000 17:22:28 -0700
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From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Need home for Dictionary
Comments: To: spaceshipearth@mail.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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The dictionary was started by Ed Schlossberg and Applewhite got all the
credit as usual.
look under Jamie roomers and see what it says.
I paid 600 dollars for my copy, a lot of $, it was from the
transcriptions of audio tapes, some of the 500 hours
I made, and the 60 hours that I donated from the design department to
bucky's office.
I made a copy of it for the office because the Design Department of SIU
had the only
copy. Other wise I would doubt it would have been part of the archive,
just as the seed pod
dome got stolen and is still in Carbondale some where, maybe Bill Perk
knows where it is.
Scholossberg worked on it as well as Naomi Smith, Shirley Sharky, etc.
But the names on it
are forgotten, it is only E.J. Applewhite 1975. I made the 60 hours in
1968 and made a 7 years
of audio archives before this dictionary was copy righted in 1975. But
do you think any of my work
would be stated having anything to do with this. No way Jose. The great
back stabber Applewhite
got all the credit, over the audio, and transcriptions of all the other
students and secretaries.
That is the way it goes. I will bet you one thing there is not one thing
in it about unitivity.
About the cosmic volume, about syntrivity, or orbitronics. That is mine.

I would like to thank the commander of this list for allowing me to
state with my raw mind
the facts of my attitude, and I will try not to talk on the level that
these others are at with
regards to what I think they are. I will try and use words that are
better than what they are
so not to offend others with the truth of what they are.
The educational system has a way of making people think they are real
important.
This is the worst thing about it, as if all others in the whole world
have to live off
table scraps. See Ya!


spaceshipearth@mail.com wrote:

> Where have you been and what are you talking about?
>
> SpaceshipEarth@mail.com
>
> > marksomers wrote:
> >
> > Need good home for Fuller's four volume dictionary.
> >
> > A Fuller Explanation
> >
> > http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:08:41 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      EBAY
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The Ebay auction site has a lot of Bucky stuff lately.

See "buckminster" search (18 items):
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&Sort
Property=MetaEndSort&query=Buckminster&x=14&y=14

And "geodesic" search (8 items):
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&Sort
Property=MetaEndSort&query=geodesic&x=17&y=16

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:24:59 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: EBAY
Comments: To: Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dex,

Thanks for the URL.  That pic was probably taken in the back yard of Bucky's
dome home in Carbondale.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: EBAY


> This Fuller pic looks really nice. -Dex
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=355357282
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 2 May 1973 11:21:59 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Hay Michael, what do you know about this one
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

ORNETTE COLEMAN "PRIME DESIGN/TIME DESIGN" - A HARMOLODIC
COMPOSITION FOR FOUR STRING INSTRUMENTS AND PERCUSSION IN HONOR
OF BUCKMINSTER FULLER

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=353060301
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 2 May 1973 13:24:27 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Who is Bucky Fuller's equal as an innovator today?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

IF YOU KNOW who the next Bucky Fuller of the internet is,
mailto:john@doorsofperception.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Viridian Note 00167: Doors of Perception
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:28:14 -0500
From: Bruce Sterling <bruces@well.com>
Reply-To: <bruces@well.com>
To: Viridian List <viridian@fringeware.com>

Conference

Key concepts: Doors of Perception #6, Amsterdam,
digital design, cool junkets to Europe, John Thackara

Attention Conservation Notice:  It's forwarded
propaganda from some event in Europe that the Viridian
Pope-Emperor plans to attend.

Source: http://www.doorsofperception.com/
News from Doors of Perception

WHO IS THE BUCKMINSTER FULLER OF THE INTERNET?
Doors of Perception 6 on 'lightness'
11,12,13 November 2000
http://www.doorsofperception.com

Registration has opened for Doors of Perception 6, the
international conference that sets design agendas for the
internet. The theme this year is lightness.

Buckminster Fuller investigated 'ephemeralisation' in the
1930s == the design approach of doing more, using less
matter.

Who, in an age of obese software, and energy-guzzling
industrial systems, is Bucky Fuller's equal as an
innovator today? Your suggestions are welcome (see below).
Speakers already confirmed for November are:

MALCOM MCCULLOUGH, the author of Abstracting Craft; he
will contrast 'anytime/anyplace' communications with
design for location awareness.

WINY MAAS, of MVRDV, the architect of the Dutch pavilion
at Expo2000, and author of Far_max:excursions on density.

ADRIAAN BEUKERS,the author of Lightness; he will explore
the way  biomimicry and the synergy of multiple materials
makes lightness work.

MAYA DRAISIN and TIFFANY SHLAIN, who organise the Webbys,
the 'Oscars of the internet', will review the best of this
year's Webby winners.

HANI RASHID, principal of Asymptote in New York, will
explore, with stunning examples, how hybrid real and
virtual spaces are co-evolving.

ALEXANDER ROSE, director of The Long Now Foundation, will
talk about the Rosetta Disk project == a melding of
digital tools for analog storage.

ENG LOCK LEE, of SuperSymmetry Services, in Singapore, is
"the world's master of the new design mentality in fluid
handling" (Paul Hawken).

SUGATA MITRA, from the Centre for Cognitive Systems in
Bombay, will describe what illiterate street children do
with internet access.

BRUCE STERLING, the writer and critic, is also leader of
the Viridians == an online discussion community that
connects 'eco' and 'info'.

MICHAEL DOUGLAS, an Australian designer, has spent three
years developing 'Tramjatra', a project to do with
Calcutta, trams, and lightness.

IVO JANSSEN, the pianist who wowed Doors 4 on 'speed.'
will explore lightness through the music of Dutch composer
SIMEON TEN HOLT.

WARNING: Also included in a Doors 6 ticket: un-filled
time! You are the content, too. Doors of Perception does
not run on internet time.

IF YOU KNOW who the next Bucky Fuller of the internet is,
mailto:john@doorsofperception.com

E_CULT AFFAIR - BEYOND THE SCREEN AND BEYOND THAT
This new event is a 'bazaar' of new concepts by graduate
design schools and new media centres from the US, Europe
and South Asia. It runs next to Doors on 12 and 13
November. 48 stands are grouped in themes:
'beyond the screen','fun and games','connected community'.

E-cult Affair  is organised by Virtual Platform == a club
of Holland's eight buzziest new media organisations
(including Doors).  No url as yet.

Doors of Perception 6 dates : 11,12,13 November 2000
Pleae note: one day later than previously announced
Place: Amsterdam. Location: RAI Conference Centre
Register now at http://www.doorsofperception.com

O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O
NOT ONLY WILL I BE THERE:
I WILL FURIOUSLY RANT
O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jun 2000 06:18:33 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] National Missile Defense

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   12-JUN-2000  6:18
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the following Yahoo!Reuters story is neither here nor there, since
 it *is* testing of a new system.  more to the point, if
 the guy had been working in Raegan's effort *from the beginning*,
 he'd know that the missile-upon-missile effort is a bogus substitute.

 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000609/ts/arms_missile_dc.html

 what you cite as "whacky" or "Star Wars" is, in fact,
 the opposite of the bogus *ballistical* NMD, that was not a part
 of Reagan's original plan;
 there is no way to develop an adequate defensive "shield" with bullets
 -- or wothout "new physical principles," as opposed
 to "off of shelf" technolgy, miraculously upgraded a la Patriots.

 thus quoth:
  I believe that the most valid arguments against the down-to-earth Missile
 War missile program are on the tactical wisdom more than the technical.

  SUBJECT: Re: "New Economy" versus Life Support
  MESSAGE   from ="List                             08-JUN-20  8:10
  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   08-JUN-2000  7:18
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   that is to say,
   these folks have been coerced, or convinced,
   to run virtual Nazi plebiscites (for Caucuses).

   --The Duke of Oil!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jun 2000 06:42:10 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Defense postures (was SS)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   12-JUN-2000  6:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 mister Booth, you engage in some nominalism, here,
 which is on a par with believing that Bush (Poppy or Dubya) know
 what in Hell "republic" even means;
 the concept is hateful to such Anglophiles, and
 this is portraayed in Dame Maggie's memoirs, vis-a-vu Sir George.
    firstly is the misnomer, however venerated, of the Civil War (or,
 as Lost-causers euphemize, the War Between the States);
 the thing was organized by the British, who also supplied ships and
 materiel, as well as a continuous trading market
 for slave-cotton etc.  (four people were hung for the conspiracy
 to murder Lincoln, documented as "slushed" from a bank in Toronto.)
    then, to cite TR's imperialism vis-a-vu Cuba, as Republican,
 is fine, as long as it is not used to apply to republicanism;
 have you seen the way in which mainstream historians attempt
 to powder-over the way in which the RNC forced TR
 upon his Lincolnite President, murdered after just a month
 in office?...  much the same as Bush is held not-suspect
 in the early attempt upon Reagan (he crushed the investigation
 from the NCS).
    skipping over the received wisdom on MacArthur and China,
 is the sual *geopolitique* that  our only choice was
 between hot or cold war -- the Truman Doctine,
 of accepting churchill's belabored trek to Missourah, and
 his pronouncement of a new geopolitical era:
 "The Iron Curtain is falling!"

 thus quoth:
  fist.  The choices were to forment war, or, follow the Truman Doctrine of
  containment.  Am I wrong in my memories?  What did you feel we should do

 --The Thornburgh Doctrine!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:16:41 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      on to Los Angeles -- DOOM(tm)Con?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   12-JUN-2000 14:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 here is the text of the total coverage
 of last Tuesday's 5 (6?) primaries, Presidential,
 in a total of less than a full column,
 on the lower half of the page in 2 columns
 on the fold of an interior page of the Los Angles "Trib" Times:

    Tuesday also marked the end of the presidential primary season,
 with contests in five of the six states,
 though they held little import since
 George W. Bush and Al Gore locked-up their nominations
 back in March.  the sixth state, Iowa,
 held its caucuses in January.

 in common parlance,
 this is called, a self-fulfilling prophecy;
 in other word, Lies.

 --The End Was Nigh!
 http://www.tarpley.net.bushb.htm

 oh, and a box underneath about Bill "Woody" Bradley:
 In Brief Return to Spotlight,
 Bradley Casts a Vote for Gore
 -- also "from AP".
    we have filed papers with the OAS and OSCE,
 with the former happenning to utterly crush the wish
 of the Albright et al to impose "limited sovereignity"
 upon Peru, over banker-boy Toledo's electoral problem;
 we have gotten massive press, there, over Alabama, and
 the DNC's illegal decision to award all delgates to Gore
 (against state law).

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:46:15 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Help  with $$ for a dome
Comments: To: Ty Ebright <ty@mbrllc.com>
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ty,

There's a book called _Financing Your Dome_; see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/AboutBFbookTOC-FinancingYourDome.htm

A dealer for Oregon Domes, Lydick's domes, has a page on financing; see:
http://www.nauticom.net/www/domeking/financin.htm

Also, I hear that Norwest Mortgage (now called Wells Fargo Home Mortgage)
has been financing domes all over the country; see
http://www.norwest.com/mortgages/index.htm

I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to two electronic newsletters that may
be able to help also.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ty Ebright" <ty@mbrllc.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 3:22 PM
Subject: Help with $$ for a dome


> Joe, I am in Soquel [CA] and I need help securing a loan for a client
buying a dome at the summit. (snip). Need help quickly.
>
> Ty Ebright 831 462 6762
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:43:19 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ongoing Efforts
Comments: To: T K <rhombidodec@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

TK,

Finally getting around to responding to this email; see embedded comments
below:

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "T K" <rhombidodec@hotmail.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 5:59 PM
Subject: Ongoing Efforts

(snip)

> So what exactly is your relationship to the R. Buckminster Fuller
Institute?

No formal ties.  At one time I was a part-time volunteer for three years at
the BFI when it was in LA.

> How is traffic at your site? Do you get many inquiries?

I'm getting about 60 hits/day with no advertising.  That's up from 5/day
about 5 years ago.  My stats seem to be a good gage of interest on the
internet in Bucky's ideas.

I get about 8 searches/day.

> What is your take on what the public thinks of Bucky?

Most have never heard of him but I think that will change rapidly in the
near future.  We're at the bottom of an eliptical curve trend.

> I was sorry to hear about your family crisis--hope it was nothing too
serious.

The lady that I shared my life with for over 15 years suddenly &
unexpectedly died.

> Peace,
> TK
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jun 2000 05:39:02 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r007883@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] DP in media

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      13-JUN-2000  5:39
                 r007883@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 of course, Lyn is on the ballot in 29 states, and
 is "historically" or always against the DP;
 we just got 11% in Oregon, in contradystinction
 to the Gore2000 insistence that "it's all sown up" for him
 (and 10% write-ins from D voters -- all done by mail).

 there was a very recent & ominous report for the Bankd
 of International Sttlements (the "cnetral bank
 of central banks"), and we have a rabid quote
 from "JR" Gore, about how robust the Stupid, economy is, and
 "NO one disputes that.  NO one disputes that.  NO one disputes that!"
 -- speaking before some financial group, I think,
 who may know better than the Veep.

 thus paraquoth:
 Ralph Nader is theonly candidate who's agin the Ddeath-penalty,
 methinx!

 --Panama Deception!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:20:40 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Tornado Warning! - Dispatch Picture Enlarged
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Nice color pic of a Doppler weather radar dome:

 http://www.discovery.com/area/science/tornado/pic02b.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jun 2000 03:14:59 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Wind Energy Technology Rivals Power of Fossil Fuels
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

ABB, the global technology company, today unveiled a new wind
power technology that makes wind farms competitive with
conventional large power plants. The Windformer(TM) increases
power output by up to 20 percent and cuts lifetime maintenance
costs in half.

The Windformer uses advanced cable technology originally
developed for ABB's
Powerformer(TM) high-voltage generator. Protected by some 230
patent applications, this technology allows ABB to eliminate a
number of components found in conventional wind generation
systems. As a result, ABB has created a wind generator that
requires neither a gearbox nor a transformer, making wind farms
more reliable with lower electrical losses. Using the Windformer,
wind farms can be economically built in a range from six
megawatts (MW) to 300 MW or more -- equivalent to the output from
a medium-sized fossil-fuel power plant.

ABB unveils next-generation wind power technology:
http://www.abb.com/

New Wind Energy Technology Rivals Power of Fossil Fuels:
http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jun2000/2000L-06-12-07.html

See also, Germans Dumping Nuclear Power:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,36937,00.html

Quote: "750 million homes around the world do not have access to
electricity, and small-scale power generation could reduce the
need to build large-scale power projects in the developing world."
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:43:18 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      The Virtual Electron Microscope - The Queensland Fruit Fly
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Geodesic dome fruit fly eye. Univ of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia.

 http://www.uq.edu.au/nanoworld/fly8.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:52:05 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
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Geodesic dome Hibiscus pollen. Univ of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia.

 http://www.uq.edu.au/nanoworld/bat036.gif

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:59:58 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      hfly6.jpg
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Geodesic dome House Fly eyes. Univ of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia.

 http://www.uq.edu.au/nanoworld/hfly6.jpg

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:30:08 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      buckminster.html
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Fuller's Proposed Global Energy Grid video

Playing time: 1min 23sec
Size: 1 meg
Format: Quicktime

(Takes a while to load, but worth it. JSM)

 http://www.geni.org/geni97/videos/buckminster.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:40:28 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      organic light emitting devices
Comments: To: Domesteading List <domesteading@sculptors.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Harvard team incorporates electroluminescent films and phosphors
into building materials, which emit short wavelength light, when
stimulated by low levels of electricity and sunlight, to create
radiating glass tiles, cement paving and paper thin wall lamps
requiring little or no power.

Book:
bugs, fish, floors & ceilings
luminous bodies and the contemporary problem of material presence:
http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/publications/bugsfish.htm

Read about this in Wired, couldn't find anything on the web
except the above book.

See also:
Solatube, mini-skylight, uses reflective materials that capture
and channel sunlight through a narrow tube, creating a skylight
with a small footprint:
http://www.solatubetexas.com
http://www.solatube.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:48:32 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Beam me in Bucky
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Teleportation links galore:
http://www.mysteries-megasite.com/main/bigsearch/teleportation

No judgment is made on the validity of the links provided.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:51:54 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
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From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Fuller Projection in Wired Magazine
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Fuller's Dymaxion map is featured on page 258-259 of the July, 2000
issue of Wired magazine, in an article titled "Venture Capitals,"
about the world's high-tech hot spots.

Surprisingly, the article list small towns in the Rio Grande
Valley region along the Texas-Mexico border,
Brownsville/Harlingen/San Benitos as having the highest rate of
high-tech growth over the last five years, expanding five times
greater than average. But it projects that the region doesn't
have the resources to sustain this level of growth. It says the
Brownsville growth comes from one company.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 00:01:24 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Thrust Air 2000
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The Thrust Air 2000, the thrill ride for the new millennium, is
the first prototype of an innovative air launched coaster, using
massive Ingersoll-Rand air compressors. The Thrust Air 2000 is
quieter, cost effective, energy efficient and
requires less maintenance. The passenger cart rushes down the
track at zero to 80 miles per hour in under two seconds, to a 90
degree angle straight up and over the top to a 90 degree angle
straight down then into a banking curve and straightening out for
the return to the loading station.
http://www.thrillride.com/ta2000/ta2000.html
http://www.s-spower.com/newest/newestbody.html

See also: vacuum experiment seeks to peek into a mirror universe.
http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0617/shadow.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 00:46:06 -0600
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      The name is Bond....Covalent Bond
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While tripping around spaceships interesting articles I found another =
interesting article about a new technique for imaging not only atoms but =
their bonds.=20

Here's the article.=20

http://www.sciam.com/explorations/1999/092099cuprite/index.html

Page to view images. Evidently ASU deleted the researches web pages that =
Scientific American linked to for the article. He probably became famous =
and snotty and got a better paying job. : )

http://clasdean.la.asu.edu/news/images/cuprite/

Notice (At least to me) The now different lines of force. Tetrahedronal =
not cubical.

Mark=20



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>While tripping around spaceships =
interesting=20
articles I found another interesting article about a new technique for =
imaging=20
not only atoms but their bonds. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here's the article. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sciam.com/explorations/1999/092099cuprite/index.html">=
http://www.sciam.com/explorations/1999/092099cuprite/index.html</A></FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Page to view images. Evidently ASU =
deleted the=20
researches web pages that Scientific American linked to for the article. =
He=20
probably became famous and snotty and got a better paying job. : =
)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://clasdean.la.asu.edu/news/images/cuprite/">http://clasdean.=
la.asu.edu/news/images/cuprite/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Notice (At least to me) The now =
different lines of=20
force. Tetrahedronal not cubical.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:03:08 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      dome2.gif
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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Great color pic of the South Pole dome.

 http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/dome2.gif

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:45:22 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: dome2.gif
In-Reply-To:  <000801bfd7b4$c1f97720$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:03 AM 06/16/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Great color pic of the South Pole dome.
>
> http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/dome2.gif

ooooooooooooooooooo, purrrty.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jun 2000 19:37:47 -0700
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?Excite_=A0_Classifieds?=
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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13 geodesic domes for sale!

Excite.com Classified Ads


http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/KeywordSearch.exe?c2k+KeywordSearchRe
sultsN

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:30:27 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: geodesic-domes
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>

Kenneth,

See: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-Tents.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

"der frickel" <klo@topf> wrote in message news:394cd749@news.arrakis.es...
> Sorry, I am looking for discriptions for different tent options in the
> geodesic- structure.
> If someone could help me, i would be very pleased.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kenneth
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:44:20 -0700
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From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: dome2.gif
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Looks like bucky's head coming out of the world of the internet.
I met a guy who works there in a bar once in Hollywood.
He stated he was flying
 there the next day before I told him I own
 the inventors home at the time...
everything happens once.


Joe S Moore wrote:

> Great color pic of the South Pole dome.
>
>  http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/dome/pix/dome2.gif
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                     Name: dome2.gif.url
>    dome2.gif.url    Type: Internet Shortcut (application/x-unknown-content-type-InternetShortcut)
>                 Encoding: 7bit
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:56:53 -0700
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From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: The name is Bond....Covalent Bond 000
MIME-Version: 1.0
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relativity is triangular, syntrific... when events are more relative
they are normal to the system in observation.
The the more normal the more syntrific. A tetrahedron
is always freeze frame imaginary unless it is a relative structure
 that
 is obvious to its observer.
Like a rock. It may be a tetrahedron, like mount everest is a
tetrahedron, but subatomic
it is
 orbitronical, always in precession of light like systems that are
compressional precessional nano of the same.
Nothing is where precession is. They are the same. There is a black hole
in every atom. "Nano black holes"
within unitivity.  (c) Copy RIght 2K, Michael s. mitchell....

Marksomers wrote:

> While tripping around spaceships interesting articles I found another
> interesting article about a new technique for imaging not only atoms
> but their bonds. Here's the
> article. http://www.sciam.com/explorations/1999/092099cuprite/index.html Page
> to view images. Evidently ASU deleted the researches web pages that
> Scientific American linked to for the article. He probably became
> famous and snotty and got a better paying job. :
> ) http://clasdean.la.asu.edu/news/images/cuprite/ Notice (At least to
> me) The now different lines of force. Tetrahedronal not
> cubical. Mark

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
relativity is triangular, syntrific... when events are more relative they
are normal to the system in observation.
<br>The the more normal the more syntrific. A tetrahedron
<br>is always freeze frame imaginary unless it is a relative structure
<br>&nbsp;that
<br>&nbsp;is obvious to its observer.
<br>Like a rock. It may be a tetrahedron, like mount everest is a tetrahedron,
but subatomic
<br>it is
<br>&nbsp;orbitronical, always in precession of light like systems that
are compressional precessional nano of the same.
<br>Nothing is where precession is. They are the same. There is a black
hole in every atom. "Nano black holes"
<br>within unitivity.&nbsp; (c) Copy RIght 2K, Michael s. mitchell....
<p>Marksomers wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>While
tripping around spaceships interesting articles I found another interesting
article about a new technique for imaging not only atoms but their bonds.</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Here's
the article.</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1><a href="http://www.sciam.com/explorations/1999/092099cuprite/index.html">http://www.sciam.com/explorations/1999/092099cuprite/index.html</a></font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Page
to view images. Evidently ASU deleted the researches web pages that Scientific
American linked to for the article. He probably became famous and snotty
and got a better paying job. : )</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1><a href="http://clasdean.la.asu.edu/news/images/cuprite/">http://clasdean.la.asu.edu/news/images/cuprite/</a></font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Notice
(At least to me) The now different lines of force. Tetrahedronal not cubical.</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Mark</font></font>&nbsp;&nbsp;</blockquote>

</body>
</html>

--------------46A6924CAF1EF4E62C861E84--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:06:56 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Rand meeting?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   19-JUN-2000 12:06
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 anyone in Santa Monica, tomorrow afternoon,
 may check this out -- RSVP as told.

    UCLA Economics professor Duncan Thomas (dt@ucla.edu) has asked that this
    announcement be circulated to this email list.  Please address any
    inquiries to him.


    >           RAND Seminars in Aging, Development, and Population
    >                                 presents
    >
    >                               Lisa Cameron
    >                    University of Melbourne, Australia
    >
    >  "The Role of Social Safety Net Scholarships in Preventing Mass School
    >             Drop-out During the Indonesian Economic Crisis"
    >
    >                          Tuesday, June 20, 2000
    >                               3:30-5:00PM
    >                     RAND, North Conference Facility
    >                     1700 Main Street, Santa Monica
    >                       (Enter RAND at East Lobby)
    >
    >    If you would like to attend this seminar or would like a copy of
    >the paper, please contact Elif Yarnall, 310.393.0411x7989,
   elif@rand.org.

    ___________________________________
    UCLA Center for Southeast Asian Studies

 --Any One But Gore?
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:49:35 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Gore on DP

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   19-JUN-2000 12:49
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 unbelievable, but I take it for a Quaker reticence;
 get him to debate the remaining Dem candidate
 for the race (a-hem).  so,
    so, he (or his DNC handlers) refuses to debate Lyn?...
 then, insure that his delegates are seated -- and
 chosen, in the first place, as per all of Michifan's --
 then, make it a point, since the braodcast networks won't
 do it, now, "because of boredom of outcome," so preconcieved
 by the DNC and RNC for them ... that PBS is there
 for the count, while Teddy Turner cheers-on the Ruckuss Society!
    as it stands,
 the Gore "plebisciters" are vowing to go against state laws
 (Arkansas' e.g.), since the VRA has been nullified, and
 those are the only imepdiments; who is calling them on that?...
 only ourselves, and a few friendly nations --
 also struggling to exist from under ballistic Jacobinism!

 thus quoth:
  I agree with others that we should apply pressure on Gore on the DP
 issue.  I
  believe you can write him by going to his campaign site on the web but I
 am
  not sure. Writing him at the White House might not be so good on this
 issue.
  He should know that most of those who are avidly pro DP will vote for
 Bush
  anyway (Southern Baptists etc.).  By a rigid stance pro DP Gore  will
 drive
  more people away.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:59:21 -0700
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Project Gutenberg and the value of ASCII text
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Here are two links you might find interesting.


HISTORY AND PHILOSOPHY OF PROJECT GUTENBERG
http://www.promo.net/pg/history.html

Project Gutenberg is an archive of public domain literature.



SAVE THE INTERNET (an article by Michael Hart)
http://www.promo.net/pg/savenet994.html

Why text should get priority over video.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:27:00 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Thrust Air 2000

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   19-JUN-2000 13:27
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 doesn't antimatter (per Alfven cosmology) account
 for this so-called mirror universe?...
 I don't know, how it does with the new discovery
 of the unmissing matter (dihydrogen; surprize .-)

 thus quoth:
  See also: vacuum experiment seeks to peek into a mirror universe.
  http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0617/shadow.html

 --Any One But Gore?
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:27:16 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Germans to shut down their nuclear plants

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   19-JUN-2000 14:27
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  SUBJECT: Re: "Scrap" (June 12th)
  MESSAGE   from Brian Hutchings                    12-JUN-20 10:33

   Dear Editor;
          Maybe, if Truman hadn't "needed" to lob two bombs
  over MacArthur's head (and his air & sea blockade)
  at Hiroshima and/or Nagasaki, folks would look
  at things "nuke-yellar" more directly -- if still unable
  to pronounce it!  As it is, behind the arbitrary "guidances"
  by various agencies, we are saddled with the Linear No-threshold paradigm
  (LNT) of the EPA, which amounts to drawing a straight line
  through the middle of the data-points of dosage ("x") versus tumors
 ("y"),
  all the way to the origin (0,0).
          That is where the great fear of sub-background levels
  of radiation lays, though radiation may be the most well-studied toxin
  on Earth.  For instance, using the data from the vast,
  international Chinese Longitudinal Study
  of health, we find that those people who live
  with the *most* cosmic or terrestrial background of radiation,
  tend to get the least cancer, "other things being equalized."
          That is, the "response" at low levels
  (within the "background noise" that is found by epidemiologists)
  is simply not linear, and probably is not
  for any other  biotoxin you'd investigate, unless shown to be so.
  (By *hormesis*, to be super-prosaic,
  there may be a "minimum daily requirement"
  of alpha, beta and gamma radiation, just as there is
  for the kind that more get OD'd on, ultraviolet!)

  Sincerely,
  Brian Hutchings
  3032 Exposition #C
  Santa Monica 90404
  (phone, out of order)

 Message 127...REPLY, PASS, DELETE, or ? for options:  (pass) r

 Enter the text of your message.
 When you're finished, press the <RETURN> key twice.
 >
 >well, that was a letter to the LA "Trib" that, of course,
 >did not get printed -- whether because of being a LaRouchiac,
 >I don't know!
 >        regarding "fossilized fuels" and acid rain,
 >there is a what may be a more-important secular trend
 >of the demineralizarion of soils, asociated
 >with *waldsterben* (and also waldschadenfreude,
 >10 years ahead of time .-)  you may think,
 >that the rain is the primary causative of this, but
 >it is not.  (see your quote, below the following reposting
 >on Gore's reluctant killing.)
 >
 >> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      13-JUN-2000  5:38
 >                  r007883@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
 >
 >  of course, Lyn is on the ballot in 29 states, and
 >  is "historically" or always against the DP;
 >  we just got 11% in Oregon, in contradystinction
 >  to the Gore2000 insistence that "it's all sown up" for him
 >  (and 10% write-ins from D voters -- all done by mail).
 >
 >  there was a very recent & ominous report for the Bankd
 >  of International Sttlements (the "cnetral bank
 >  of central banks"), and we have a rabid quote
 >  from "JR" Gore, about how robust the Stupid, economy is, and
 >  "NO one disputes that.  NO one disputes that.  NO one disputes that!"
 >  -- speaking before some financial group, I think,
 >  who may know better than the Veep.
 >
 >  thus paraquoth:
 >  Ralph Nader is theonly candidate who's agin the Ddeath-penalty,
 >  methinx!
 >
 >  --Panama Deception!
 >  http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
 >
 >thus quoth:
 > Rain becomes acid rain when the pH (7 in neutral water) is less than
 > 5.6. This is because pH below 5.5 endangers most species in a lake.
 > Irreversible ecosystem changes begin when pH reaches 5.8. Fish won't
 > reproduce when the pH falls below 5.4. Below a pH of 4.5, almost all
 > life except algae, moss, and fungi are gone.The average pH of rain in
 > the eastern US is 4.5. German rainwater has a pH between 4 and 4.6.
 > [A pH of 4.6 is 10 x as acid as a pH of 5.6; a pH of 4 is 40 x as
 > acid as a pH of 5.6.]
 >
 > As in the US, the majority of air pollution is produced by traffic,
 > and the majority of the remainder by fossil fuel electricity. Acid
 > rain is just one problem; particulates alone kill tens of thousands
 > of Americans annually (EPA). The majority of acid rain , however,
 > comes from fossil fuel electricity. And then there's global climate
 > change.
 >
 > I have not seen any analysis of Germany's latest decision. But if
 > Germany continues to supply the same amount of electricity, fossil
 > fuel use for electricity will apparently go up by about half.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:08:44 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Paperboard domes
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>

John,

I believe Fuller's Paperboard patent has the info you seek; see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-P.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

"John Dunaj" <antonerg@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3952BEA5.22D48AA@worldnet.att.net...
> I wonder if anyone out there has a copy of the patterns that were used
> for the paperboard domes for the Marines.
>
> John
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:10:33 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth
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New edition of Op Manual for SS Earth to be published 9-1-00.  Lars Muller
Publishers.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/3907078233/qid=961801620/sr=1-21/102-
5612585-9935267

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:15:11 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Buckminster Fuller's Universe An Appreciation
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New edition of BF's Univ-An Appreciation to be published in July 2000.
Perseus Book Group publishers.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738203793/qid=961802170/sr=1-8/102-5
612585-9935267

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:19:12 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      June 24th Caucus!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   23-JUN-2000 11:19
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Mr. Andrew has shown himself to be a liar and a racist.
 He has arrogantly ignored appeals from over 1,000
 Democratic elected officials from across the nation. Now,
 in Arkansas, in a blatantly illegal action, he has robbed
 over 50,000 Democratic voters of their most sacred right
 as Americans. We were left with absolutely no choice but
 to sue; this kind of fascist action cannot go unchallenged.
 It is necessary to protect the rights of those who were so
 callously disenfranchised, and to defend the most basic
 right we share as Americans. If this kind of activity is
 permitted to continue unchecked, the Democratic Party
 will lose the Presidency, be dealt a crushing defeat in the
 Congress, and, indeed, the very future of this republic
 threatened."

       Arkansas state law requires the Democratic Party to
 hold a Presidential Preference Primary and to apportion its
 delegates to the Democratic National Convention
 according to the votes cast. Under that law, and the
 Democratic Party rules, LaRouche is entitled to 7 of the
 state's 37 pledged delegates. Nevertheless, Andrew and
 McQuary plan to award all the state's delegates to
 Vice-President Al Gore.

       The lawsuit asks the Court to order the Democratic
 Party to seat LaRouche's duly-elected delegates to the
 state convention, and to allow those delegates to
 represent LaRouche in Los Angeles on August 14-17.

 --Panama Deception!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:23:44 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Draft OSTP Report on Climate Change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   23-JUN-2000 12:23
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow; this IPCC thingy seems to confirm some
 of our criticisms, almost directly.  I must say, though,
 that some of the conclusions are bizarrely held.
    they are taking public comment, be that as it may be, or not!
 here is my second-favorite nonsequiter:

 The intensity and pattern of temperature changes
 within the atmosphere indicates human activities as a cause.
 The relevant question is not whether [etc.]

 now, I agree that it does, but
 I have *never* seen any reason for such, given,
 other *than* the paradigm of "global" (overall) warming,
 which is based upon a hare-brained "model" of Earth
 (the one that insists that warming will be greater
 at the poles).

 thus quoth:
   I'm wondering if any F/friends on this list have seen the new draft
  report
   titled "CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACTS ON THE UNITED STATES: The Potential
   Consequences of Climate Variability and Change".  This federal report
 can
  be
   found at http://www.gcrio.org/NationalAssessment/

 --The Thorburgh Doctrine!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:42:40 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Ad Hoc Party Platform Hearings (none at "DOOM-Con")

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   23-JUN-2000 12:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Ad Hoc Democratic Party Platform Hearings
 June 22, 2000, Washington, D.C.

 Distinguished Panelists
 -------------------------------

     Eugene McCarthy, Former U.S. Senator (Minnesota)

     Senator Carlos Cisneros (New Mexico)

     Senator Joe Neal (Nevada)

     Representative Perry Clark (Kentucky)

     Representative Milton "Toby" Fitch (North Carolina)

     Representative Erik Fleming (Mississippi)

     Representative John Hilliard (Alabama)

     Representative Howard Hunter (North Carolina)

     Representative Thomas Jackson (Alabama)

     Representative Harold James (Pennsylvania)

     Representative Ernest Newton (Connecticut)

     Representative Coy Pugh (Illinois)

     Representative Ed Vaughn (Michigan)

     Representative LeAnna Washington (Pennsylvania)

 For more information, call 800/929-7566.

 (The live webcast started at 10:30 A.M., Eastern Time, but
 I didn't know about it !-)

 --Emancipation Proclamation!
 http://www.juneteenth.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:28:24 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      ... and Geodesy?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   23-JUN-2000 13:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Object-oriented Astronomy, Celestial Mechanics and Geodesy

 http://alpha.fesg.tu-muenchen.de/dieter/java/index.html

 indexed from
 http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/HSG/RefCalculators2.html

 --Panama Deception!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Jun 2000 06:50:53 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Complicity is the act of silence.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   24-JUN-2000  6:50
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 mister Martin has been threatening me (or some thing)
 with IRS audit, because of my alleged partisan activity, herein.
    if he had bothered to give any attention, whatever,
 to my postings, he'd know that
 I have been attacking "JR" Gore as much as "OG" Bush --
 and "JR" Bush is largely below the threshold for any such effort,
 since he is riding on Poppy's slimy coattails & the ghastly record
 of his own business menu (a big, repeatedly bailed-out joke).

 "Geroge Bush does not even know the *meaning* of the word,
 republic -- and neither does George Bush!"

 that quote applies equally to Veep Al as it does
 to Chairman George, and their respective National Cmtes.,
 now running roughshod over our voting rights; dig?

 --Watergate Bungler!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush12.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Jun 2000 18:52:15 -0700
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From:         richard fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      World wealth/6billion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Where is the information that shows what each person's
fraction of world wealth is?  If it isn't  around in
this form, what is the world's wealth?  I can do the
division.

Dick Fischbeck

=====
dickbeckhubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\///\\\///\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\//////\/\\\\\\////////\\\\/////\\\\\\\\////\/\/there are no bad kids!! utopia
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:26:37 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
In-Reply-To:  <20000626015215.17067.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 06:52 PM 06/25/2000 -0700, richard fischbeck wrote:
>Where is the information that shows what each person's
>fraction of world wealth is?  If it isn't  around in
>this form, what is the world's wealth?  I can do the
>division.
>
>Dick Fischbeck

Depends if you're going market rates.  Breathable air
is essentially free, and therefore of no market value,
but of course is critical to life.  Same with energy
from the sun.  Plus no one is paying royalties on DNA
(though that could change, if LAWCAP has its way).

Probably you should invent a hypothetical God, for
bookkeeping purposes, and assume He's malevolent,
charging "what the market will bear" for every good
or service (including use of your body -- a lease
agreement, no warrantee expressed or implied).  That'd
be more in keeping with Dismal Science ways and means,
and might net you a figure.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:07:30 -0700
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From:         richard fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:
> At 06:52 PM 06/25/2000 -0700, richard fischbeck
> wrote:
> >Where is the information that shows what each
> person's
> >fraction of world wealth is?  If it isn't  around
> in
> >this form, what is the world's wealth?  I can do
> the
> >division.
> >
> >Dick Fischbeck
>
> Depends if you're going market rates.  Breathable
> air
> is essentially free, and therefore of no market
> value,
> but of course is critical to life.  Same with energy
> from the sun.  Plus no one is paying royalties on
> DNA
> (though that could change, if LAWCAP has its way).
>
> Probably you should invent a hypothetical God, for
> bookkeeping purposes, and assume He's malevolent,
> charging "what the market will bear" for every good
> or service (including use of your body -- a lease
> agreement, no warrantee expressed or implied).
> That'd
> be more in keeping with Dismal Science ways and
> means,
> and might net you a figure.
>
> Kirby

What I mean is not that complicated, although I
understand your point.  I am talking about the Earth's
equivalent to a GDP times twenty, assuming five
percent growth.  Some figures are available from World
Bank.  In 1994 they added human capital to their
figuring.  I think it was twenty or thirty trillion to
them.  Wealth is forward-survival-resources, or there
abouts.  I plan to have a site on which there is a
counter to track each persons share of total
accumulated wealth, sort of like the counter that
tracked each persons share of the national debt.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:15:19 -0500
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From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: richard fischbeck [mailto:dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 11:08 AM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: World wealth/6billion
>
>
>
> What I mean is not that complicated, although I
> understand your point.  I am talking about the Earth's
> equivalent to a GDP times twenty, assuming five
> percent growth.  Some figures are available from World
> Bank.  In 1994 they added human capital to their
> figuring.  I think it was twenty or thirty trillion to
> them.  Wealth is forward-survival-resources, or there
> abouts.  I plan to have a site on which there is a
> counter to track each persons share of total
> accumulated wealth, sort of like the counter that
> tracked each persons share of the national debt.
>
> Dick
>

At a world wide level does wealth accumulate?  I thought it was just
redistributed.  That all wealth already existed and was merely controlled by
individuals.  Maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

Steve O
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:50:42 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: On geod-geoo your lists shows a 0 degree Icosa at the top.
              NOT!
Comments: To: Bruce Hector <bphmd@worldnet.att.net>
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Dear Bruce,

The way I understand it, anything below 2 frequency is pre-frequency or =
no-frequency or primitive or pre-physical (metaphysical).  That's why I =
called it zero (or no) frequency.  (Maybe I shouldn't have even used the =
word "frequency"?).

Ref: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Geod-Geoo.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Bruce Hector=20
  To: joemoore@cruzio.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 8:58 PM
  Subject: On geod-geoo your lists shows a 0 degree Icosa at the top. =
NOT!


  This is a one frequency icosa hedron. You are misinforming the public. =
Please change.
  Thank you.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>Dear =
Bruce,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>The way I understand it, =
anything below=20
2 frequency is pre-frequency or no-frequency or primitive or =
pre-physical=20
(metaphysical).&nbsp; That's why I called it zero (or no) =
frequency.&nbsp;=20
(Maybe I shouldn't have even used the word =
"frequency"?).</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000>Ref: =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Geod-Geoo.htm">http://www.c=
ruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Geod-Geoo.htm</A></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:bphmd@worldnet.att.net" =
title=3Dbphmd@worldnet.att.net>Bruce=20
  Hector</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"=20
  title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com>joemoore@cruzio.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 25, 2000 =
8:58 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> On geod-geoo your =
lists shows a=20
  0 degree Icosa at the top. NOT!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is a one frequency icosa hedron. =
You are=20
  misinforming the public. Please change.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank =
you.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFDF53.FE23C560--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:55:54 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Steve,

You're looking at it wrong.  Wealth is the sum of the physical + the
metaphysical.  The physical (atoms) is fixed, but the metaphysical (ideas)
is constantly growing.  Therefore wealth (W = P + M) is constantly growing
and has no upper limit.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen O'Shaughnessy" <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: World wealth/6billion


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: richard fischbeck [mailto:dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM]
> > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 11:08 AM
> > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> > Subject: Re: World wealth/6billion
>
(snip)

> At a world wide level does wealth accumulate?  I thought it was just
> redistributed.  That all wealth already existed and was merely controlled
by
> individuals.  Maybe I'm looking at it wrong.
>
> Steve O
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:02:06 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
In-Reply-To:  <313B94EDA224D11194680001FA7EC2A809BDD37D@nts1.triplecrowns
              vc.com>
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>At a world wide level does wealth accumulate?  I thought it
>was just redistributed.  That all wealth already existed and
>was merely controlled by individuals.  Maybe I'm looking at
>it wrong.
>
>Steve O
>

Surely you jest.  New wealth is created daily.

Wealth = life support = metaphysical (intelligence) + physical.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:28:12 -0500
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From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirby Urner [mailto:pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM]
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 12:02 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: World wealth/6billion
>
>
> >At a world wide level does wealth accumulate?  I thought it
> >was just redistributed.  That all wealth already existed and
> >was merely controlled by individuals.  Maybe I'm looking at
> >it wrong.
> >
> >Steve O
> >
>
> Surely you jest.  New wealth is created daily.
>
> Wealth = life support = metaphysical (intelligence) + physical.
>
> Kirby
>

Not at all.  I believe that all intelligence (knowledge) has always existed
and mankind just 'remembers' it as we grow.  Atomic energy was not created,
electricity was not created, DNA was not created (in the sense it did not
exists before) ... at some point we merely began to understand it.  Then we
began to control it.  Control is what we call wealth.  Wealth is a
perception of value.

I don't think I'm much wealthier than my ancestors.  I think such a
comparison would have to delve into the meaning of life.  A topic I doubt
any two of us would ever agree upon.  Certainly my lifespan is longer.  I
have available to me procedures and medications to ease pain and suffering,
prolong my life, etc.  But, does that make me wealthier than previous
generations or just different? Again, I'm claiming wealth is a perception.

If we could transport someone forward in time to today would they think us
wealthy?  I don't know.  I suspect in some ways yes, and others no.  For
example, would they think TV better than stories told around the fire?  I
suspect not.  I think they would be totally overwhelmed by TV.  Indirectly
then, electricity would hold less value for them than for me.  To my
ancestors, my high tech world would not make be wealthier than them.

Is riding to work in a BMW better than VW with no heater?  Most would say
yes, but the answer is a preference, a perception. If I scrap the car and
walk, like my ancestors did, would that be worse?  Folks, I sit in front of
a computer all day.  I wonder how much longer I would live (and better?) if
I dropped my high pressure job and found a job closer to home where I could
get the exercise of walking to work every day?  At better than $2 a gallon
for gas, the VW doesn't look as bad either.  I don't think better, just
different.  Some pluses, some minuses.

Kirby, how do you define life support?  I suppose the whole question hinges
on that definition.

Yes, the sum total of elucidated ideas is growing, but the truth behind them
has always been.  And the wealth contained in the ideas is a perception.
Which gets me back to why I posted my original question:

Dick Fischbeck said:
>...Wealth is forward-survival-resources, or there
>abouts.  I plan to have a site on which there is a
>counter to track each persons share of total
>accumulated wealth, sort of like the counter that
>tracked each persons share of the national debt.

I guess I don't know what you mean by 'forward-survival-resources'.  If
wealth accumulates, you would need a column for each of the billions of
people because the resources that you call wealth are not available to us
all.  These are resources (I contend) that have always existed.  Thus, they
don't accumulate. We just didn't know how to use them.  Control just shifts
through different groups of people.  And the perceived value changes.

Rambling, mostly,

Steve O
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:53:46 +0100
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From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>

> Not at all.  I believe that all intelligence (knowledge) has always
existed
> and mankind just 'remembers' it as we grow.  Atomic energy was not
created,
> electricity was not created, DNA was not created (in the sense it did not
> exists before)

Electricity and our knowledge of it are two different things.

Intelligence and knowledge have clearly not always existed, because humans
haven't always existed, and time itself seems to have only been generated at
the Big Bang.

The view that we remember knowledge is reminiscent of Plato's philosophy, as
expressed in the Meno dialogue. In this case, it applied only to Ideas, i.e.
ideal forms of geometry and kindred objects. My knowledge of the various
plots of the Phil Silvers Show, for example, is not something recalled from
any time prior to the 1950s.


Paul Taylor.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:10:59 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
In-Reply-To:  <313B94EDA224D11194680001FA7EC2A809BDD37F@nts1.triplecrowns
              vc.com>
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>Not at all.  I believe that all intelligence (knowledge) has always existed
>and mankind just 'remembers' it as we grow.  Atomic energy was not created,
>electricity was not created, DNA was not created (in the sense it did not
>exists before) ... at some point we merely began to understand it.  Then we
>began to control it.  Control is what we call wealth.  Wealth is a
>perception of value.

Ergo wealth is increasing every day, as we learn control.

Agreed there's lots of perception involved.  Whether my
ancestors consider me a poor slob or not (because of TV
or whatever) is not my concern -- I'm wealthy by my own
standards.

>Kirby, how do you define life support?  I suppose the whole
>question hinges on that definition.

At the primitive level, it has to do with enough food
calories and protection to stay alive another 24 hours.
Beyond that, it includes degrees of freedom, the potential
to self-actualize (Maslow).

>Yes, the sum total of elucidated ideas is growing, but the truth
>behind them has always been.  And the wealth contained in the
>ideas is a perception.

Not particularly interesting to me to say "all wealth is
already out there" if we have no access to it yet.  Wealth
is what we've accessed.  I see no way to account for what
we have no clue about.  If there's a fish behind bullet
proof glass and I'm hungry, what good is it?

>I guess I don't know what you mean by 'forward-survival-resources'.  If
>wealth accumulates, you would need a column for each of the billions of
>people because the resources that you call wealth are not available to us
>all.  These are resources (I contend) that have always existed.  Thus, they
>don't accumulate. We just didn't know how to use them.  Control just shifts
>through different groups of people.  And the perceived value changes.
>
>Rambling, mostly,
>
>Steve O
>

To say "control just shifts through different groups of people"
is different from suggesting that control is improving for
the species as a whole, on average.  Anyway, maybe what I call
wealth is what you call control, or what others might call
disciplined behavior (conditioned-reflexing -- always in
danger of becoming obsolete if we get complacent).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:33:12 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Draft OSTP Report on Climate Change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   26-JUN-2000  7:33
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 alas, the classical method for producing Green Shirts.  wouldn't a good,
 old "liberal arts" curriculum include the design & useage of all forms
 of energy infrastucture, including those not extant?...  [i.e.I got notice
 of a Dutch supranational with patents on windmills that require no
 gearboxes
 or transformers, with efficiencies gained, but
 this does not preclude the use of nuclear power, in my mind .-]

 thus quoth, re "Green schools" (http://www.epa.gov/buildings/esbhome/newsr
 oom/webvideo.html;
 http://www.ecw.org/education/e2k.htm;
 http://www.ase.org/educators/lessons.htm;
 http://www.ase.org/greenschools/studentlinks.htm;
 http://www.edfacilities.org;
 http://www.ase.org/greenschools/perspectives.htm; etc.):
  comprehensive program designed for K-12 schools that creates energy


 actually, my "point" was to make note of some ot these
 "semi-technicalicalities,"
 as being rather telling axioms.  in particlar, the vague statement
 about "patterns" showing themselves to point to human causation, when
 in fact they are simply the supposed confirmation of their "overall"
 model;
 what other pattern is there, than "more warming in winter/at night/at
 poles" ??...
 none, that I have ever seen referenced.  most importantly,
 the "confirmation" resides in observing -- the simulacra of the UNIPCC;
 just check the U.S.Climate Reference Network of 28 stations!

 thus quoth:
  well aware of the semi-technical criticisms you frequently cite
  against work of this sort.  As I've previously tried to explain here,
  no one denies that modeling climate change on a computer is difficult

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:25:05 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Improper use of list for political purposes

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   26-JUN-2000  8:25
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 no; I'm not doing that.
    contrary to the mindrinsing that you receive in your paper,
 there is more than one Democrat running for President in most states
 -- although we have had to file a suit in Arkansas,
 to fight for our state-law-mandated delegates.  not,
 oc course, in the same way that Alan Keyes is "running
 for President," whetther or not he will fold his little,
 bogus tent up like McCain folded his flim-flam job, up!

 also contrary to the silly tirades of Gore
 against Big Oil, now afoot,
 he is every bit as much a creature of it, although
 if only via Senior's and Junior's support bu Occidental.
 actually, that is 2 generations of "big oil"
 on both of these Wall-Street candidates' sides!
    Gore's rabid support of the Kyoto Protocols proves this,
 unless you believe Bush won't support them, as well;
 how, so?

 thus quoth:
  Hutchins is making negative attacks on both of the major party candidates
 and
  supporting openingly a third party candidate.  I suggest this is not the

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.bushb.htm  (Ch.8)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:19:46 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Improper use of list for political purposes
In-Reply-To:  <200006261525.e5QFP5b17132@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>  Hutchins is making negative attacks on both of the major party
>  candidates and supporting openingly a third party candidate.
>  I suggest this is not the

Hutchins is living proof that too much politics is conducive
to brain rot.  I can't think of many less effective writers
on the net, except maybe JB on alt.politics.org.cia.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:05:12 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Wealth
MIME-Version: 1.0
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We've talked about wealth at length over the years on this message =
thread. I don't know for sure how one would figure it.=20
Take for instance the Genome project. In my veiw, contrary to the =
skepics, that knowledge is priceless in the context of applied science. =
The cure for aids is in that body of knowledge along with the cure for =
cancer and just about every other human ailment. On a daily basis if not =
hourly the whole planet is being wired with a revolutionary information =
system. How much is the information worth? How much is the system =
costing? Does one adjust the GNP of South Africa into US dollars? And if =
so what time of the day would you do that? Some would say that the study =
of the Venusian atmosphere was a complete waste of tax money, but =
scientist use that body of knowledge to study Earths atmosphere. =
Understanding the Earths atmosphere allows scientists to save lives by =
more and more accurately predicting the movement of life threatening =
storms like hurricanes. How much is that applied science worth? My =
house, for instance, would fetch 2 to 3 times the money if it were in =
Tucson or Las Vegas or Pheonix. What is it really worth? I can't move my =
house very easily but information can be moved very very easily and it =
can fetch just as much a radically different amount of money depending =
on what one is willing to pay for it.

Mark Somers    =20

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFDF99.12EBD920
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We've talked about wealth at length =
over the years=20
on this message thread. I don't know for sure how one would figure it.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Take for instance the Genome project. =
In my veiw,=20
contrary to the skepics, that knowledge is priceless in the context of =
applied=20
science. The cure for aids is in that body of knowledge along with the =
cure for=20
cancer and just about every other human ailment. On a daily basis if not =
hourly=20
the whole planet is being wired with&nbsp;a revolutionary information =
system.=20
How much is the information worth? How much is the system costing? Does =
one=20
adjust the GNP of South Africa into US dollars? And if so what time of =
the day=20
would you do that? Some would say that the study of the Venusian =
atmosphere was=20
a complete waste of tax money, but scientist use that body of knowledge =
to=20
study&nbsp;Earths atmosphere. Understanding the Earths atmosphere allows =

scientists to save lives by&nbsp;more and more accurately predicting the =

movement of life threatening storms like hurricanes. How much is=20
that&nbsp;applied science worth? My house, for instance, would fetch 2 =
to&nbsp;3=20
times the money if it were in Tucson or Las Vegas or Pheonix. What is it =
really=20
worth? I can't move my house very easily but information can be moved =
very very=20
easily and it can fetch just as much a radically different amount of =
money=20
depending on what one is willing to pay for it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark Somers &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:03:00 -0700
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From:         richard fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      wealth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 Some World Bank numbers are below..  If I guess here
that the average wealth per person is 90,000 dollars,
that puts world wealth at around 500 trillion dollars.
Comments?




Total wealth, Human resources, Produced assets Natural
capital, Agricultural land, Forests and protected
areas, Minerals and fossil fuels.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 (dollars per capita) (percentage of natural capital)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

North America 325,274 247,892 61,953 15,429 53 25 22
Pacific OECD 1 302,389 205,156 89,786 7,447 63 22 15
Western Europe 236,164 175,570 54,990 5,604 68 23 9
Middle East 146,243 55,898 27,304 63,041 11 1 88
South America 94,086 69,548 15,872 8,666 52 23 25
Eastern Europe and Central Asia 62,500 30,530 22,256
9,714 50 12 38
North Africa 54,185 37,034 14,348 2,803 37 2 61
Central America 51,612 40,628 7,801 3,182 77 22 1
Caribbean 47,338 32,429 9,863 5,046 83 5 12
East Asia 46,076 35,207 7,220 3,649 78 9 13
East and Southern Africa 29,863 19,526 7,345 2,992 65
22 13
West Africa 22,036 13,231 4,097 4,708 75 10 15
South Asia 21,704 13,959 4,123 3,622 90 4 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


=====
dickbeckhubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\///\\\///\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\//////\/\\\\\\////////\\\\/////\\\\\\\\////\/\/there are no bad kids!! utopia
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:25:42 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: wealth
In-Reply-To:  <20000627000300.25102.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 05:03 PM 06/26/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> Some World Bank numbers are below..  If I guess here
>that the average wealth per person is 90,000 dollars,
>that puts world wealth at around 500 trillion dollars.
>Comments?
>

Was listening to Nader on C-SPAN the other night.
He said something like net worth of top 200 individuals
on planet was greater than combined net worth of some
billions of others -- but I forget how many billion.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:58:08 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Catagories of wealth.
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Mr. Fischbeck's posting:

Some World Bank numbers are below..  If I guess here
that the average wealth per person is 90,000 dollars,
that puts world wealth at around 500 trillion dollars.
Comments?




Total wealth, Human resources, Produced assets Natural
capital, Agricultural land, Forests and protected
areas, Minerals and fossil fuels.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--

My comments:

In the case of minerals does that include above ground metals? Over 50% =
of the steel now produced is from scrap.
Also the knowledge to produce steel from scrap is like hundreds of years =
old the actual application is only decades old. Greed as compelled steel =
producers to use scrap as raw material.
Fossil fuels? Crude has tripled in (value?) in the last month or so. =
Greed again I guess. : ) Human resources? Cathy Lee Giffords evaluation, =
I hope not. Agricultural lands. The chinese are building on thier =
limited acreage as we speak. Greed again?

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mr. Fischbeck's posting:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some World Bank numbers are =
below..&nbsp; If I=20
guess here<BR>that the average wealth per person is 90,000 =
dollars,<BR>that puts=20
world wealth at around 500 trillion=20
dollars.<BR>Comments?<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Total wealth, Human resources, =
Produced=20
assets Natural<BR>capital, Agricultural land, Forests and =
protected<BR>areas,=20
Minerals and fossil fuels.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My comments:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the case of minerals does that =
include above=20
ground metals? Over 50% of the steel now produced is from =
scrap.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also the knowledge to produce steel =
from scrap is=20
like hundreds of years old the actual application is only decades old. =
Greed as=20
compelled steel producers to use scrap as raw material.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Fossil fuels? Crude has tripled in =
(value?) in the=20
last month or so. Greed again I guess. : ) Human resources? Cathy Lee =
Giffords=20
evaluation, I hope not. Agricultural lands. The chinese are building on =
thier=20
limited acreage as we speak. Greed again?</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Date:         Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:20:21 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      NEW DOME BUILDER
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Sea-Treck
Kingston, TN, USA
David C Martin III

Wood and steel domes.
See their proposed circular sailboat with a geodesic dome cabin:

 http://david.martiniii.tripod.com/ship_page.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:38:04 -0500
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From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
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Do you consider yourself wealthy now that you have knowledge of those plots?
I would also say that those plots are not unique or new (in their time).  I
wish I could remember the exact quote but Norman Vincent Peale once said
something to the affect "there are only a handful of stories in the human
drama.  They are merely repeated over and over."  I can't state the
specifics (that show is just, ever so slightly, ahead of my time), but I'd
be willing to bet that the ideas in those plots are not new.  Only the
details.

This discussion really depends on how we define things like knowledge,
wealth and forward-survival-resources.  You have knowledge of the Phil
Slivers Show, I know what I ate for breakfast this morning.  Is that
knowledge and does it make us wealthier than yesterday?  I don't know.  How
is it quantified?  If I have the same thing for breakfast tomorrow, or you
watch a re-run of the Phil Silvers show, does that count as two pieces of
knowledge?  Certainly we are each different from the first time we had these
experiences.  Thus our understanding of them will be, ever so slightly,
different.

If this is all true then knowledge is a linear continuum.  Every breath I
take is new and unique and thus would add to my store of knowledge.  But I'm
having a hard time believing that the knowledge of every breath I take is
making me wealthier or contributing to the general wealth of mankind.  But,
I think I could be persuaded otherwise.

Dick Fischbeck wants to count this wealth and divide it by the population of
the earth.  I'm not sure how this wealth is defined, let alone, counted.  I
think it could be a very useful number, if we all understood what it
represented.  So I'm playing devils advocate, to satisfy my own
understanding as much as anything else.

Steve O


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Taylor [mailto:pt@NOUS.ORG.UK]
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 3:54 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: World wealth/6billion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
>
> > Not at all.  I believe that all intelligence (knowledge) has always
> existed
> > and mankind just 'remembers' it as we grow.  Atomic energy was not
> created,
> > electricity was not created, DNA was not created (in the
> sense it did not
> > exists before)
>
> Electricity and our knowledge of it are two different things.
>
> Intelligence and knowledge have clearly not always existed,
> because humans
> haven't always existed, and time itself seems to have only
> been generated at
> the Big Bang.
>
> The view that we remember knowledge is reminiscent of Plato's
> philosophy, as
> expressed in the Meno dialogue. In this case, it applied only
> to Ideas, i.e.
> ideal forms of geometry and kindred objects. My knowledge of
> the various
> plots of the Phil Silvers Show, for example, is not something
> recalled from
> any time prior to the 1950s.
>
>
> Paul Taylor.
>
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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:14:08 -0500
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From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Wealth
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Is it meaningful to use $$?  Wasn't it Bucky himself that pondered the price
of shoes?  In 19?? (20 something) the price of a pair of men's, black,
leather shoes was in the neighborhood of $3.  By the 70's it was $40-$50.
Today it's over $100.  But the cow leather is the same.  It's no better than
leather from 100 years ago.  And manufacturing technology has improved.
Shoes are no longer made by hand.  Machines make them in a fraction of the
time, at a fraction of the cost.  Yet the price of shoes does not follow.
So how useful is $$.  It's convenient, easy to use, easy to understand.  But
is it useful.  I cringe every time I hear storm damage (or other natural
disaster) expressed in $$ then compared to similar storms 25, 50 or 100
years ago.  Even if the $$ are adjusted for inflation I wonder how accurate
the comparison is.

By the way, I don't have a better idea.  Just my usual thorn in your side
question, what is wealth?  And does it make sense to apply it at a world
wide level?

-----Original Message-----
From: marksomers [mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 7:05 PM
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Wealth


We've talked about wealth at length over the years on this message thread. I
don't know for sure how one would figure it.
Take for instance the Genome project. In my veiw, contrary to the skepics,
that knowledge is priceless in the context of applied science. The cure for
aids is in that body of knowledge along with the cure for cancer and just
about every other human ailment. On a daily basis if not hourly the whole
planet is being wired with a revolutionary information system. How much is
the information worth? How much is the system costing? Does one adjust the
GNP of South Africa into US dollars? And if so what time of the day would
you do that? Some would say that the study of the Venusian atmosphere was a
complete waste of tax money, but scientist use that body of knowledge to
study Earths atmosphere. Understanding the Earths atmosphere allows
scientists to save lives by more and more accurately predicting the movement
of life threatening storms like hurricanes. How much is that applied science
worth? My house, for instance, would fetch 2 to 3 times the money if it were
in Tucson or Las Vegas or Pheonix. What is it really worth? I can't move my
house very easily but information can be moved very very easily and it can
fetch just as much a radically different amount of money depending on what
one is willing to pay for it.

Mark Somers


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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=676125812-27062000>Is it
meaningful to use $$?&nbsp; Wasn't it Bucky himself that pondered the price of
shoes?&nbsp; In 19?? (20 something) the price of a pair of men's, black, leather
shoes was in the neighborhood of $3.&nbsp; By the 70's it was $40-$50.&nbsp;
Today it's over $100.&nbsp; But the cow leather is the same.&nbsp; It's no
better than leather from 100 years ago.&nbsp; And manufacturing technology has
improved.&nbsp; Shoes are no longer made by hand.&nbsp; Machines make them in a
fraction of the time, at a fraction of the cost.&nbsp; Yet the price of shoes
does not follow.&nbsp; So how useful is $$.&nbsp; It's convenient, easy to use,
easy to understand.&nbsp; But is it useful.&nbsp; I cringe every time I hear
storm damage (or other natural disaster) expressed in $$ then compared to
similar storms 25, 50 or 100 years ago.&nbsp; Even if the $$ are adjusted for
inflation I wonder how accurate the comparison is.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=676125812-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=676125812-27062000>By the
way, I don't have a better idea.&nbsp; Just my usual thorn in your side
question, what is wealth?&nbsp; And does it make sense to apply it at a world
wide level?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> marksomers
  [mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 26, 2000 7:05
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B>
  Wealth<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We've talked about wealth at length over the
  years on this message thread. I don't know for sure how one would figure it.
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Take for instance the Genome project. In my veiw,
  contrary to the skepics, that knowledge is priceless in the context of applied
  science. The cure for aids is in that body of knowledge along with the cure
  for cancer and just about every other human ailment. On a daily basis if not
  hourly the whole planet is being wired with&nbsp;a revolutionary information
  system. How much is the information worth? How much is the system costing?
  Does one adjust the GNP of South Africa into US dollars? And if so what time
  of the day would you do that? Some would say that the study of the Venusian
  atmosphere was a complete waste of tax money, but scientist use that body of
  knowledge to study&nbsp;Earths atmosphere. Understanding the Earths atmosphere
  allows scientists to save lives by&nbsp;more and more accurately predicting
  the movement of life threatening storms like hurricanes. How much is
  that&nbsp;applied science worth? My house, for instance, would fetch 2
  to&nbsp;3 times the money if it were in Tucson or Las Vegas or Pheonix. What
  is it really worth? I can't move my house very easily but information can be
  moved very very easily and it can fetch just as much a radically different
  amount of money depending on what one is willing to pay for it.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mark Somers &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:37:06 +0100
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From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Re: World wealth/6billion
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I wrote:

> > The view that we remember knowledge is reminiscent of Plato's
> > philosophy, as
> > expressed in the Meno dialogue. In this case, it applied only
> > to Ideas, i.e.
> > ideal forms of geometry and kindred objects. My knowledge of
> > the various
> > plots of the Phil Silvers Show, for example, is not something
> > recalled from
> > any time prior to the 1950s.

Stephen O'Shaughnessy wrote:

> Do you consider yourself wealthy now that you have knowledge of those
plots?
> I would also say that those plots are not unique or new (in their time).

Although wealth might be defined in terms of (some kinds of) knowledge,
rather than just in terms of dollars, this may not mean that all kinds of
knowledge are to be seen as wealth. That's partly why I chose a trivial
example of some knowledge that someone might have, and also because it is
something not known about before a certain time.

I accept that the plots may not be profoundly original, but you can't
reasonably reduce them all to a handful of stories, any more than you could
be an effective film critic by just writing "boy meets girl" every time you
were supposed to review a film.

You yourself gave more serious examples of knowledge about DNA, and
electricity.

I take it that you agree with this remark:

> > Electricity and our knowledge of it are two different things.
> >
> > Intelligence and knowledge have clearly not always existed,
> > because humans
> > haven't always existed, and time itself seems to have only
> > been generated at
> > the Big Bang.


Paul Taylor.
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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:05:41 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Spanish flu 1914
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550,000 Americans died from the Spanish flu that lasted some 6 months. =
20 million to 30 million people world wide. 400,000 US servicemen died =
during ww2, 40 million to 50 million people world wide. 50,000 US =
soldiers died in Vietnam. Desert storm 125 Americans died? Robotics and =
medicine have most definitely increased the quality of life, and war. =
Kinda took the romance out of war though. Medicine is now going robotic. =
Nano robots in the for see able future programmed to repair human body =
tissue and fix genes at the molecular level. Kinda takes the romance out =
of ER. Sure hope the bots don't turn us all into batteries.=20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>550,000 Americans died&nbsp;from the =
Spanish flu=20
that lasted some 6 months. 20 million to 30 million people world wide. =
400,000=20
US servicemen died during ww2, 40 million to 50 million people world =
wide.=20
50,000 US soldiers died in Vietnam. Desert storm 125 Americans died? =
Robotics=20
and medicine have most definitely increased the quality of life, and =
war. Kinda=20
took the romance out of war though. Medicine is now going robotic. Nano =
robots=20
in the for see able future programmed to repair human body tissue and =
fix genes=20
at the molecular level. Kinda takes the romance out of ER. Sure hope the =
bots=20
don't turn us all into batteries. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:32:47 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Spanish flu 1914
In-Reply-To:  <003001bfe049$2a34c8c0$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
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At 09:05 AM 06/27/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>550,000 Americans died
from the Spanish flu that lasted some 6 months. 20 million to 30 million
people world wide. 400,000 US servicemen died during ww2, 40 million to
50 million people world wide. 50,000 US soldiers died in Vietnam. Desert
storm 125 Americans died? Robotics and medicine have most definitely
increased the quality of life, and war. Kinda took the romance out of war
though. Medicine is now going robotic. Nano robots in the for see able
future programmed to repair human body tissue and fix genes at the
molecular level. Kinda takes the romance out of ER. Sure hope the bots
don't turn us all into batteries.

</smaller></fontfamily>

</excerpt><<<<<<<<


"Romance of war" -- such BS.


Also, why are you just counting "Americans".  If a mechanized

war ends up with 0 losses team A, 1 million team B, then

1 million is the death count.


Anyway, I don't want any of your "romance" thank you.

'Gladiator' was not my favorite movie of all time.


Kirby


PS:  again according to Nader's speech, more Americans died

of black lung from coal mine work that USA soldiers in WWII.

That'd be an interesting stat to pin down in more detail.

Has to do with the war on facism at home.
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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:34:38 -0500
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Subject:      Re: Spanish flu 1914
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Don't confuse quality with length or quantity.  Americans are living longer
than ever before.  Most senior citizens end up in nursing homes.  Most
residents of nursing homes are waiting (wishing according to the ones I've
talked to, but hardly a scientific study) to die.  Many that I've observed
don't even know they're in a nursing home.

Mother Teresa considered herself wealthy.  So does Bill Gates.  What is
wealth?  I think Kirby said it best "I'm wealthy by my own standards."  As
we look at these things, forward-survival-resources, life expectancy,
wealth, knowledge, etc.  we must pay attention to what question we are
really answering.

"Some people ask if the glass is half full, other if it is half empty.  I
say what does it matter as long as it can slake my thirst." -- Wayne Dyer

If one person has to die, does it matter that a million more also had to
die?  Not to that one person or his loved ones.  I tried to make that
argument with a philosophy professor.  He tried to justify war while calling
the killing of civilians immoral.  I saw no difference in killing a
conscripted 18 year old on the battle line with the 35 year old mother
working in the arms factory.

I love your last sentence!  Has the species survived even if we are just
batteries for some 'higher' entity?

Just wondering how we are going to use the numbers.

Steve O

-----Original Message-----
From: marksomers [mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 10:06 AM
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Spanish flu 1914


550,000 Americans died from the Spanish flu that lasted some 6 months. 20
million to 30 million people world wide. 400,000 US servicemen died during
ww2, 40 million to 50 million people world wide. 50,000 US soldiers died in
Vietnam. Desert storm 125 Americans died? Robotics and medicine have most
definitely increased the quality of life, and war. Kinda took the romance
out of war though. Medicine is now going robotic. Nano robots in the for see
able future programmed to repair human body tissue and fix genes at the
molecular level. Kinda takes the romance out of ER. Sure hope the bots don't
turn us all into batteries.


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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=182455914-27062000>Don't
confuse quality with length or quantity.&nbsp; Americans are living longer than
ever before.&nbsp; Most senior citizens end up in nursing homes.&nbsp; Most
residents of nursing homes are waiting (wishing according to the ones I've
talked to, but hardly a scientific study) to die.&nbsp; Many that I've observed
don't even know they're in a nursing home.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=182455914-27062000>Mother
Teresa considered herself wealthy.&nbsp; So does Bill Gates.&nbsp; What is
wealth?&nbsp; I think Kirby said it best "<FONT size=2>I'm wealthy by my own
standards."&nbsp; As we look at these things, <FONT
size=2>forward-survival-resources, life expectancy, wealth, knowledge,
etc.&nbsp; we must pay attention to what question we are really
answering.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=182455914-27062000>"Some
people ask if the glass is half full, other if it is half empty.&nbsp; I say
what does it matter as long as it can slake my thirst." -- Wayne
Dyer</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=182455914-27062000>If one
person has to die, does it matter that a million more also had to die?&nbsp; Not
to that one person or his loved ones.&nbsp; I tried to make that argument with a
philosophy professor.&nbsp; He tried to justify war while calling the killing of
civilians immoral.&nbsp; I saw no difference in killing a conscripted 18 year
old on the battle line with the 35 year old mother working in the arms
factory.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=182455914-27062000>I love
your last sentence!&nbsp; Has the species survived even if we are just batteries
for some 'higher' entity?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=182455914-27062000>Just
wondering how we are going to use the numbers.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=182455914-27062000>Steve
O</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> marksomers
  [mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 27, 2000 10:06
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Spanish
  flu 1914<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>550,000 Americans died&nbsp;from the Spanish flu
  that lasted some 6 months. 20 million to 30 million people world wide. 400,000
  US servicemen died during ww2, 40 million to 50 million people world wide.
  50,000 US soldiers died in Vietnam. Desert storm 125 Americans died? Robotics
  and medicine have most definitely increased the quality of life, and war.
  Kinda took the romance out of war though. Medicine is now going robotic. Nano
  robots in the for see able future programmed to repair human body tissue and
  fix genes at the molecular level. Kinda takes the romance out of ER. Sure hope
  the bots don't turn us all into batteries.
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:58:57 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Spanish flu 1914
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000627083247.03534534@pop.teleport.com>
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Me:=20


<excerpt>

Has to do with the war on facism at home.

</excerpt>                           ^^^^^^


Spelling correction:


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


Main Entry: fas=B7cism

Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-

Function: noun

Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces,=20

group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces

Date: 1921


1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or=20

regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often=20

race above the individual and that stands for a centralized=20

autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader,=20

severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible=20

suppression of opposition


2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic=20

or dictatorial control <<early instances of army fascism and=20

brutality -- J. W. Aldridge> - fas=B7cist /-shist also -sist/=20

noun or adjective, often capitalized - fas=B7cis=B7tic /fa-'shis-tik=20

also -'sis-/ adjective, often capitalized - fas=B7cis=B7ti=B7cal=B7ly=20

/-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb, often capitalized =20


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


If you want to know what a "fascio bundle" is, it's a=20

symbol of state authority stemming from early Roman

times, when the police carried around a "bundle of

rods", often with a double headed ax head sticking=20

out.  The USA Senate prominently displays this symbol,

with many legislators not really knowing Latin well

enough to see it as the part of the etymology of

Fascism.


Today, the sexier term is "corporate fascism".  Put

that in your search engine to find lots of fun web

pages.


Kirby
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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:40:16 -0700
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JLH,

You must send your unsubscribe command to the computer running the list, =
not to the list itself.  Refer to the instructions you received when you =
first subscribed.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: jlh=20
  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 8:41 AM
  Subject: unsubscribe


  unsubscribe

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>JLH,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>You must send your unsubscribe command to the =
computer running=20
the list, not to the list itself.&nbsp; Refer to the instructions you =
received=20
when you first subscribed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
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  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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  <A href=3D"mailto:jhancock@LINK2000.NET" =
title=3Djhancock@LINK2000.NET>jlh</A>=20
  </DIV>
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  =
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.EDU</A>=20
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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:40:47 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Wealth again
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"Romance of war" -- such BS.

Also, why are you just counting "Americans". If a mechanized
war ends up with 0 losses team A, 1 million team B, then
1 million is the death count.

Anyway, I don't want any of your "romance" thank you.
'Gladiator' was not my favorite movie of all time.

Kirby

PS: again according to Nader's speech, more Americans died
of black lung from coal mine work that USA soldiers in WWII.
That'd be an interesting stat to pin down in more detail.
Has to do with the war on facism at home.=20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------

Well, Kirby, as you know war is very much romanticized, especially in =
the US culture. That's the only reason I brought it up, and in a =
sarcastic nature.

I only missed counting Americans in my Vietnam and Desert Storm counts,  =
because in the case of Vietnam; does one count the Khmer rouge =
atrocities? If so it's about 3 million? In the case of desert storm I =
don't know what the Iraqi body count was.

My last sentence about the bots turning us into batteries. .... if we =
get turned into batteries does it really mean anything in the long run? =
Steve makes a good point .. if we're batteries are we still a .. better =
I quote him.
=20
"I love your last sentence!  Has the species survived even if we are =
just batteries for some 'higher' entity?"

Let me also add that in the case of the Spanish flu it was a quality as =
well as a quantity of life issue because the young and robust were =
falling victim to the flu not just the weak or aged. I'm afraid in this =
arena we have killed Darwin. My example of the Spanish flu makes a good =
point in the over all scheme of genetic intervention. Should a human be =
penalized because he/she isn't already genetically immune to one disease =
in the thousands we are exposed to every day?=20

Personally I think we're (All Humans on earth) making progress against =
fascism. "Corporate" "Friendly" or other wise.

I'll really start to worry when some how the flow of information gets =
"controlled" ie the flow of information on the internet.=20

I strongly believe in something Fuller said. I can't quote him but if I =
understood him correctly on a whole we humans are doing the right =
things, even if for the wrong reasons. At the end of the day the deed =
count is going to have one more good thing than bad.=20

You or I might have some incredible ideas to solve the Fascist dilemma, =
but are you willing to become a fascists to straighten out the idiots =
running amock on the planet? Would not someone have too? People really =
believe Rush Limbough is right. I don't know about you but that to me is =
one very scary thought. The politicians have the power but they don't =
have the guts. No politician is going to stand up to one of the fascists =
corporations. It would be political suicide.=20


Back to wealth. My definition of wealth is that I can pursue my =
interests, passions etc. without having to pursue money.=20

Mark=20

P.S how do I stop typing in blue? : ) =20

  =20


=20

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Romance of war" -- such =
BS.<BR><BR>Also, why are=20
you just counting "Americans". If a mechanized<BR>war ends up with 0 =
losses team=20
A, 1 million team B, then<BR>1 million is the death =
count.<BR><BR>Anyway, I=20
don't want any of your "romance" thank you.<BR>'Gladiator' was not my =
favorite=20
movie of all time.<BR><BR>Kirby<BR><BR>PS: again according to Nader's =
speech,=20
more Americans died<BR>of black lung from coal mine work that USA =
soldiers in=20
WWII.<BR>That'd be an interesting stat to pin down in more =
detail.<BR>Has to do=20
with the war on facism at home. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
---------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, Kirby, as you know war is very =
much=20
romanticized, especially in the US culture. That's the only reason I =
brought it=20
up, and in a sarcastic nature.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I only missed counting Americans in my =
Vietnam and=20
Desert Storm counts,&nbsp; because in the case of Vietnam; does one =
count the=20
Khmer rouge atrocities? If so it's about 3 million? In the case of =
desert storm=20
I don't know what the Iraqi body count was.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My last sentence about the bots turning =
us into=20
batteries. .... if we get turned into batteries does it really mean =
anything in=20
the long run? Steve makes a good point .. if we're batteries are we =
still a ..=20
better I quote him.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D182455914-27062000>"I=20
love your last sentence!&nbsp; Has the species survived even if we are =
just=20
batteries for some 'higher' entity?"</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D182455914-27062000>Let me=20
also add that in the case of the Spanish flu it was a quality as well as =
a=20
quantity of life issue because the young and robust were falling victim =
to the=20
flu not just the weak or aged. I'm afraid in this arena we have killed =
Darwin.=20
My example of the Spanish flu makes a good point in the over all scheme =
of=20
genetic intervention. Should a human be penalized because he/she isn't =
already=20
genetically immune to one disease in the thousands we are exposed to =
every day?=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000>Personally I think we're (All Humans on =
earth) making=20
progress against fascism. "Corporate" "Friendly" or other=20
wise.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D182455914-27062000>I'll=20
really start to worry when some how the flow of information gets =
"controlled" ie=20
the flow of information on the internet. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D182455914-27062000>I=20
strongly believe in something Fuller said. I can't quote him but if I =
understood=20
him&nbsp;correctly on a whole we humans are doing the right things, even =
if for=20
the wrong reasons. At the end of the day the deed count is going to have =
one=20
more good thing than bad.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D182455914-27062000>You or=20
I might have some incredible ideas&nbsp;to solve the Fascist dilemma, =
but are=20
you willing to become a fascists to straighten out the idiots running =
amock on=20
the planet? Would not someone have too? People really believe Rush =
Limbough is=20
right. I don't know about you but that to me is one very scary thought. =
The=20
politicians have the power but they don't have the guts. No politician =
is going=20
to stand up to one of the fascists corporations. It would be political =
suicide.=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D182455914-27062000>Back=20
to wealth. My definition of wealth is that I can pursue my interests, =
passions=20
etc. without having to pursue money. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000>Mark&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D182455914-27062000>P.S=20
how do I stop&nbsp;typing in blue? : ) &nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D182455914-27062000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML=
>

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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:57:55 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Wealth again
In-Reply-To:  <009901bfe0bb$082657e0$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
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<excerpt>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I only missed counting Americans
in my Vietnam and Desert Storm counts,  because in the case of Vietnam;
does one count the Khmer rouge atrocities? If so it's about 3 million? In
the case of desert storm I don't know what the Iraqi body count was.

</smaller></fontfamily>

</excerpt><<<<<<<<


I count Khmer Rouge atrocities separately.  Cambodia was

a different situation from Vietnam -- not the same war

(although there as overlap).



<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>



<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>P.S how do I stop typing in blue? : )


</color></smaller></fontfamily></excerpt><<<<<<<<


I hope you figure it out.


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:06:51 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Octet Truss 40 psf floor?

Jeff,

Scroll down to "Octet" on my web page:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Oct-Omnh.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

<jetgraphics@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jbn4p$cee$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Item: Seeking information on manufacturers or plans to build octet
> trusses that would support load of 40 psf on a span of no more than 16
> feet.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -- Expanding Universes require expanding minds
> -- Jeff Ganaposki
> -- http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics
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Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:14:28 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Largest possible dome size?

Jeff,

Using the Tensegrity technology, there is no inherent limit to how large a
dome could be.  Fuller did some studies of 2-mile diameter domes.  Scroll
down to "Tensegrity" on my web page:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Tem-Tetq.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

<jetgraphics@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jbo1k$d64$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Non-Geodesic 1000' domes:
> http://www.monolithicdome.com/gallery/stadiums/crenostad/index.html
> --
> -- Expanding Universes require expanding minds
> -- Jeff Ganaposki
> -- http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:47:25 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         richard fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      quadrillion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Wealth (know-how) always increases.  Know-how refers
to life-supporting-information.  Metaphysically
speaking, we have 6 billion billionaires.  People have
a hard time comprehending this. They will, however,
relate to world-wide capital per capita. If the
gross-world-product or GWP is twenty trillion dollars,
then each persons fraction of that is 3,000 dollars.
If the GWP represents a 5% return on investment, that
puts world-wealth at approximately 400 trillion.

Make any sense?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:49:43 -0500
Reply-To:     mail@menschenfeind.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Menschenfeind <mfeind@MENSCHENFEIND.COM>
Organization: MENSCHENFEIND PRODUCTIONs
Subject:      ROSEMARY MALIGN / DR.RANDALL PHILLIP
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Remove Instructions:
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if you do not want to receive info related to
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"F*ck is a Tour de Force of Ugliness that tests the limits of the first amendment.
Reading Fuck is like being gang raped. You are guaranteed to be
offended & you'll probably want to put up money to have Mr. Phillips face bashed
in." -- extracted from the philadelphia welcomat




                     Rosemary Malign & The Eugenics Council  /  Randall Phillip
Split Cd
                                                     Now Available

                 CREDIT CARDS NOW ACCEPTED ONLINE AND OVER THE PHONE
                                    http://www.menschenfeind.com/credit.html

                           EUGENICS COUNCIL/RANDALL PHILIP SPLIT CD




After being turned away from more then one pressing plant
due to the harsh content, and graphic artwork The Cd  will finally be made available.
It contains material from the Eugenics Council's limited edition
cdr "Genocide Now" along with all new material. Rosemary has recently been featured
on the Susan Lawly Release "Extreme Music From Women"
her Track Produced by William Bennet of Whitehouse. She will also be in the upcoming
Feral House publication "Apocalypse Culture".
Any one who is familiar with Dr. Randall Phillip's magazine "F*ck",  his Book
"Extermination Zone", or His movie "Tape Terror" will enjoy his
audio work. For those not familiar with Dr. Phillip, prepare yourself for one
of the most brutal writer/artist of the century.
Dr. Phillips  writing can also be found in "Answer Me 4", and he will be making
an appearance on the jerry Springer show to share his expertise on
cults(Date will be posted when available).



  "Well, if you're a sucker for brutal, cynical and controversial projects, look
no further: here the duo Eugenics Council teams up with the infamous
  Randall Phillip, editor of the (euphemistically speaking) extreme fanzine Fuck“.
What you get is a long ear-splitting and stomach-revolting bad trip
                               through the destruction of almost every possible
target of anti-PC hysteria"

                                            --Eugenio Maggi from an Italian music
mag

Due To a mishap at the pressing plant 2 different versions of this cd are available
The first cd  comes packaged in jewel cases and contains alternate
mixes / mastering of some songs. The 2nd cd  is packaged in vinyl bags and features
original mixes of the songs.
A 3rd cd  is available only to distributors. It is the exact same cd as the one
packaged in jewel cases, the only difference is the edited artwork.

Promos
Anyone interested in reviewing the cd, or would like  a copy for airplay can
can contact
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Purchase
prices are postage paid in U.S.A Foreigners add $3

Vinyl packaged Cd   $7.00  wholesale price $4 minimum of 5 cds

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Menschenfeind Productions is an independent label and distro that deals with
Extreme music and
culture. About once a month an email is sent out to those who have expressed
interest in the
organization, or affiliated groups.




MENSCHENFEIND PRODUCTIONS
http://www.menschenfeind.com
FUCK MAGAZINE
http://www.menschenfeind.com
EUGENICS COUNCIL
http://mp3.com/eugenicscouncil
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DQo8YnI+Jm5ic3A7DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo=

------=_NextPart_000_001__135476349_42583.29--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:19:10 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: quadrillion
In-Reply-To:  <20000628164725.9892.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:47 AM 06/28/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Wealth (know-how) always increases.  Know-how refers
>to life-supporting-information.  Metaphysically
>speaking, we have 6 billion billionaires.  People have
>a hard time comprehending this. They will, however,
>relate to world-wide capital per capita. If the
>gross-world-product or GWP is twenty trillion dollars,
>then each persons fraction of that is 3,000 dollars.
>If the GWP represents a 5% return on investment, that
>puts world-wealth at approximately 400 trillion.
>
>Make any sense?
>
>Dick
>

I think wealth has the potential to increase,
but it's not a given that it will.  Some humans
could "lose it" and bomb the rest of us back
to the Stone Age.  A net "wealth decease" in
my book.

I don't think "6 billion billionaires" will
fall out from using World Bank stats.  RBF was
into something called "cosmic accounting"
(which sounds spacey), meaning he put a lot
of value on automated aspects of the ecosystem
which economists simply take for granted.

Also "6 billion billionaires" doesn't mean
people having a "net worth" of 6 billion if
you add up their assets and subtract liabilities
-- that'd be more a "World Bank" way of looking
at it.  More, imagine a floating enterprise such
as the USS Enterprise (aircraft carrier).  None
of the crew has title to the ship, owns much
beyond a personal computer (some trillions of
emails go through the Enterprise servers over
the years).  Yet the standard of living is
fairly high (if you like that sort of life).

I think we can say that theoretical engineering
know-how plus resources is currently sufficient
to give all humans a pretty decent standard of
living.  This has been the status quo for some
time (the 1970s).  I say "theoretical" because
clearly we haven't done it yet.

In my book, what this changes is the ground of
being, the context, the ethics.  When people are
simply clueless, you can forgive them for not
doing X.  Like, I wouldn't hold a child accountable
for not calling 911 in case of an emergency, if
they're not even trained in phone use (age 2).
But if an adult just stood by and watched a
disaster unfold, did nothing to help, didn't
even call 911, I'd say that adult is a really
oblivious numbskull, an incredible jerk -- other
epithets apply.

On the global scale, we're at a point with our
development where we can't apply "child law" to
a supposedly more matured species.  Our science
has taken us beyond a point of no return in that
regard.  Hence a "technological imperative" (similar
to Kant's "moral imperative") applies (Applewhite
is on record re the TI).

In retrospect, if humans follow a more design science
savvy agenda, I think this period in history will
be viewed as akin to the holocaust period, with
most of us tacitly aquiescing, or fighting rather
ineffectively to have the status quo overturned.
We're the new Nazis.  In many dimensions, our memories
will be reviled, or at least we'll be pitied (those
poor slobs -- so larval, so pupal, so trapped by
centuries of reflex-conditioning, now inappropriate,
obsolete, ugly) -- and the longer we postpone taking
care of those needlessly suffering, with the tools
we already have, the more our status slips into the
"subhuman" category (going with LW's inclination to
reserve the term "human being" only for a few --
but be a link to Nietzsche here somewhere).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:23:56 -0500
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From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: quadrillion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I don't see the jump from knowledge to dollars.  I understand how dollars
can be used as a unit. A loaf of bread costs $0.50.  Therefore $2.00=4
loaves.  Except this unit has to be adjusted for time and place.  It's only
a unit because we say it is.  And it only has the value we, somewhat
arbitrarily, say it does.

But I don't understand how gross-world-product is related to knowledge.  If
all of our resources suddenly dried up, we would still have the knowledge
(know-how), but quickly die off (no air, water, food, etc.)  Would we still
be wealthy at 400 trillion?  GWP can drop to zero without affecting
know-how.

Steve O

> -----Original Message-----
> From: richard fischbeck [mailto:dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 11:47 AM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: quadrillion
>
>
> Wealth (know-how) always increases.  Know-how refers
> to life-supporting-information.  Metaphysically
> speaking, we have 6 billion billionaires.  People have
> a hard time comprehending this. They will, however,
> relate to world-wide capital per capita. If the
> gross-world-product or GWP is twenty trillion dollars,
> then each persons fraction of that is 3,000 dollars.
> If the GWP represents a 5% return on investment, that
> puts world-wealth at approximately 400 trillion.
>
> Make any sense?
>
> Dick
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:41:37 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: quadrillion
In-Reply-To:  <313B94EDA224D11194680001FA7EC2A809BDD384@nts1.triplecrowns
              vc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:23 PM 06/28/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't see the jump from knowledge to dollars.

Exactly, and yet knowledge is related to wealth.
Ergo we shouldn't confuse "wealth" with "dollars".

Wealth, at least the way Bucky uses the term,
is not money.  Being very wealthy is not the
same as being filthy rich (lotsa money in the
bank).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:02:07 -0500
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From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: quadrillion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Which gets back to your definition of wealth as being personal.

Don't quote me on the figures, but I believe Mother Teresa was able to raise
hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) for her causes.  She
traveled the world, met many heads of state.  Yet she chose to live in the
slums of Calcutta.  I'm not suggesting we shouldn't work to end world hunger
and poverty, but we must not, likewise, try to force our standard of living
on others.

At a spiritual level I believe we have all created our own realities.  I
believe, literally, in the Bible verse that says if we had the faith of a
mustard seed, we could move a mountain simply by saying so.

This in not far from Bucky's thinking.  To look at the world sideways.  It's
not illogical to live in a slum and still bum around with heads of state.

So use $$ to make comparisons.  But be careful of the meaning you attach to
the results.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirby Urner [mailto:pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 12:42 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: quadrillion
>
>
> At 12:23 PM 06/28/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> >I don't see the jump from knowledge to dollars.
>
> Exactly, and yet knowledge is related to wealth.
> Ergo we shouldn't confuse "wealth" with "dollars".
>
> Wealth, at least the way Bucky uses the term,
> is not money.  Being very wealthy is not the
> same as being filthy rich (lotsa money in the
> bank).
>
> Kirby
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:13:51 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Thanks and \"Don't Sweat the Small Stuff\".

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUN-2000 11:13
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 You don't have to be a rocket-scientist -- and neither do I!

 We have nothing to fear, but ... Brian being a rocket-scientist!

 We have solved the Roswell problemma:
 Huthcings was on the back-engineering team!

 thus quoth:
  "Imagine that everyone else is enlightened  except you"  and "Imagine the
  people in your life as tiny infants or 100 year old adults."


 yeah; sometimes, partial-birth abortees.

 --The End Was Nigh
 ! http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:20:58 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Spanish flu 1914

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUN-2000 11:20
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it's hard to say, I'd say, how much
 of that lung-condition was due to the prevelance
 of smoking amongst those miners.
    Nader called for the FEC to include all candidates
 with federal matching funds, to be in the debates, and
 the WSJ predictably didn't mention this, but
 asked for "Bush's influence" to get both Buchanan and Nader
 in debates outside of the federally-sponsored ones --
 to deploy Nader against Gore, as they suppose.
    nothing, not ever a word, about Skull'n'Bones
 (did anyne see the movie, "Skulls," and
 did it get beyond the silly "secret society" front?).

 thus quoth:
  PS:  again according to Nader's speech, more Americans died

  of black lung from coal mine work that USA soldiers in WWII.

 --The Duke o'Bones!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:30:12 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Spanish flu 1914

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUN-2000 11:30
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Chapter -VII- Skull and Bones:
 The Racist Nightmare at Yale

      ``Wise statesmen ... established these great self-evident
      truths, that when in the distant future some man, some
      faction, some interest, should set up the doctrine that
      none but rich men, or none but white men, were entitled
      to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, their
      posterity should look up again at the Declaration of
      Independence and take courage to renew the battle
      which their fathers began....''@s1

      -- Abraham Lincoln --

 Honeymoon

 The U.S. Navy delivered George Bush back home for
 good on Christmas Eve, 1944; the war in the Pacific
 raged on over the next half year, with Allied forces
 taking Southeast Asia, the Netherlands East Indies
 (Indonesia), and islands such as Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

 Barbara Pierce quit Smith College in her sophomore
 year to marry George. Prescott and Mother Bush gave
 a splendid prenuptial dinner at the Greenwich Field
 Club. The wedding took place January 6, 1945, in the
 Rye, New York Presbyterian Church, as the U.S. Third
 Fleet bombarded the main Philippine island of Luzon in
 preparation for invasion. Afterwards there was a
 glamorous reception for 300 at Appawamis Country
 Club. The newlyweds honeymooned at The Cloisters, a
 five-star hotel on Sea Island, Georgia, with swimming,
 tennis and golf.

 George's next assignment was to train pilots at Norfolk,
 Virginia Naval Air Station. ``George's duty ... was light.
 As for other young marrieds, whose husbands were
 between warzone tours, this was kind of an extended
 (and paid) honeymoon.''@s2

 Japan surrendered in August. That fall, George and
 Barbara Bush moved to New Haven where Bush
 entered Yale University. He and Barbara moved into an
 apartment at 37 Hillhouse Avenue, across the street
 from Yale President Charles Seymour.

 College life was good to George, what he saw of it. A
 college career usually occupies four years. But we know
 that George Bush is a rapidly moving man. Thus he was
 pleased with the special arrangement made for veterans,
 by which Yale allowed him to get his degree after
 attending classes for only two and a half years.

 Bush and his friends remember it all fondly, as
 representatives of the Fashionable Set: ``[M]embers of
 [Bush's] class have since sighed with nostalgia for those
 days of the late 1940s.... Trolley cars still rumbled along
 the New Haven streets. On autumn afternoons they
 would be crowded with students going out to football
 games at the Yale Bowl, scattering pennies along the
 way and shouting `scramble' to the street kids diving
 for them''[emphasis added].@s3

 In 1947, Barbara gave birth to George W. Bush, the
 President's namesake.

 By the time of his 1948 graduation, he had been elected
 to Phi Beta Kappa, an honor traditionally associated
 with academic achievement. A great deal is known
 about George Bush's career at Yale, except the part
 about books and studies. Unfortunately for those who
 would wish to consider his intellectual accomplishment,
 everything about that has been sealed shut and is top
 secret. The Yale administration says they have turned
 over to the FBI custody of all of Bush's academic
 records, allegedly because the FBI needs such access to
 check the resume@eacute; of important office holders.

 From all available testimony, his mental life before
 college was anything but outstanding. His campaign
 literature claims that, as a veteran, Bush was ``serious''
 at Yale. But we cannot check exactly how he achieved
 election to Phi Beta Kappa, in his abbreviated college
 experience. Without top secret clearance, we cannot
 consult his test results, read his essays, or learn much
 about his performance in class. We know that his father
 was a trustee of the university, in charge of
 ``developmental'' fundraising. And his family friends
 were in control of the U.S. secret services.

 A great deal is known, however, about George Bush's
 status at Yale.

 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:09:48 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Spanish flu 1914
In-Reply-To:  <200006281820.e5SIKwl29959@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:20 AM 06/28/2000 -0700, you wrote:
><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUN-2000 11:20
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> it's hard to say, I'd say, how much
> of that lung-condition was due to the prevelance
> of smoking amongst those miners.

Cigarettes causing black lung?  Hadn't hear of that
before.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:59:46 +0100
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Design Science Revolution
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>

> Don't quote me on the figures, but I believe Mother Teresa was able to
raise
> hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) for her causes.  She
> traveled the world, met many heads of state.  Yet she chose to live in the
> slums of Calcutta.

You might find Christopher Hitchens' 1995 book, "The Missionary Position",
an interesting read:

"Bear in mind that Mother Teresa's global income is more than enough to
outfit several first-class clinics in Bengal. The decision not to do so, and
indeed to run instead a haphazard and cranky institution which would expose
itself to litigation and protest were it run by any branch of the medical
profession, is a deliberate one. The point is not the honest relief of
suffering but the promulgation of a cult based on death and suffering and
subjection." (p.41)


> At a spiritual level I believe we have all created our own realities.  I
> believe, literally, in the Bible verse that says if we had the faith of a
> mustard seed, we could move a mountain simply by saying so.
>
> This in not far from Bucky's thinking.  To look at the world sideways.
It's
> not illogical to live in a slum and still bum around with heads of state.

It is very far from Fuller's thinking. The countless children starving to
death every day have clearly not created their own realities, and the effort
to save them by means of the Design Science Revolution has nothing to do
with the delusion that we can ("literally") shift mountains if we believe
hard enough.


Paul Taylor.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:06:34 -0700
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From:         richard fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: quadrillion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:
> At 09:47 AM 06/28/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> >Wealth (know-how) always increases.  Know-how
> refers
> >to life-supporting-information.  Metaphysically
> >speaking, we have 6 billion billionaires.  People
> have
> >a hard time comprehending this. They will, however,
> >relate to world-wide capital per capita. If the
> >gross-world-product or GWP is twenty trillion
> dollars,
> >then each persons fraction of that is 3,000
> dollars.
> >If the GWP represents a 5% return on investment,
> that
> >puts world-wealth at approximately 400 trillion.
> >
> >Make any sense?
> >
> >Dick
> >
>
> I think wealth has the potential to increase,
> but it's not a given that it will.  Some humans
> could "lose it" and bomb the rest of us back
> to the Stone Age.  A net "wealth decease" in
> my book.
>
> I don't think "6 billion billionaires" will
> fall out from using World Bank stats.  RBF was
> into something called "cosmic accounting"
> (which sounds spacey), meaning he put a lot
> of value on automated aspects of the ecosystem
> which economists simply take for granted.
>
> Also "6 billion billionaires" doesn't mean
> people having a "net worth" of 6 billion if
> you add up their assets and subtract liabilities
> -- that'd be more a "World Bank" way of looking
> at it.  More, imagine a floating enterprise such
> as the USS Enterprise (aircraft carrier).  None
> of the crew has title to the ship, owns much
> beyond a personal computer (some trillions of
> emails go through the Enterprise servers over
> the years).  Yet the standard of living is
> fairly high (if you like that sort of life).
>
> I think we can say that theoretical engineering
> know-how plus resources is currently sufficient
> to give all humans a pretty decent standard of
> living.  This has been the status quo for some
> time (the 1970s).  I say "theoretical" because
> clearly we haven't done it yet.
>
> In my book, what this changes is the ground of
> being, the context, the ethics.  When people are
> simply clueless, you can forgive them for not
> doing X.  Like, I wouldn't hold a child accountable
> for not calling 911 in case of an emergency, if
> they're not even trained in phone use (age 2).
> But if an adult just stood by and watched a
> disaster unfold, did nothing to help, didn't
> even call 911, I'd say that adult is a really
> oblivious numbskull, an incredible jerk -- other
> epithets apply.
>
> On the global scale, we're at a point with our
> development where we can't apply "child law" to
> a supposedly more matured species.  Our science
> has taken us beyond a point of no return in that
> regard.  Hence a "technological imperative" (similar
> to Kant's "moral imperative") applies (Applewhite
> is on record re the TI).
>
> In retrospect, if humans follow a more design
> science
> savvy agenda, I think this period in history will
> be viewed as akin to the holocaust period, with
> most of us tacitly aquiescing, or fighting rather
> ineffectively to have the status quo overturned.
> We're the new Nazis.  In many dimensions, our
> memories
> will be reviled, or at least we'll be pitied (those
> poor slobs -- so larval, so pupal, so trapped by
> centuries of reflex-conditioning, now inappropriate,
> obsolete, ugly) -- and the longer we postpone taking
> care of those needlessly suffering, with the tools
> we already have, the more our status slips into the
> "subhuman" category (going with LW's inclination to
> reserve the term "human being" only for a few --
> but be a link to Nietzsche here somewhere).
>
> Kirby

Yes, there is always an exception. But I am attempting
to dispel the conditioned-reflex that there is not
enough to go around. By naming the per capita wealth
on this planet, people may have a practical,
understandable sense of the abundance in our midst.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:25:50 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Design Science Revolution
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Taylor [mailto:pt@NOUS.ORG.UK]
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 10:00 AM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Design Science Revolution
>
>
I'll look for the book.  Thank you for the reference.
>
>
> > At a spiritual level I believe we have all created our own
> realities.  I
> > believe, literally, in the Bible verse that says if we had
> the faith of a
> > mustard seed, we could move a mountain simply by saying so.
> >
> > This in not far from Bucky's thinking.  To look at the
> world sideways.
> It's
> > not illogical to live in a slum and still bum around with
> heads of state.
>
> It is very far from Fuller's thinking.

My point about Fuller's thinking still stands.  To clarify, Fuller took a
different look at the world.  He backed clear up to the mathematics that
underlies all of science and engineering.  He cut out the assumptions and
replaced them with demonstratable experience.  He quite literally took a
look at the world sideways (from our "normal" view), see the dymaxion map.
Fuller concentrated on the hard sciences and engineering, now it's time to
start applying these principles to softer sciences, the psychology and
philosophies of life.


>The countless children
> starving to
> death every day have clearly not created their own realities,
> and the effort

This is not at all clear to me.  Just because "we" decide that starving is
wrong, someone else must have not chosen to experience it?  What is clear to
me is that the world is teaming with energy.  Food is so abundant it is
wasted by the ton.  There's more water on the planet than land.  Thus, you
really would have a harder time making the argument the world is a harsh
place.  That said, let me also say that I don't think for a minute that a
starving child would consciously admit to making such a choice.  I believe
it was a choice made by the soul before it inhabited the body.  Likewise
we've also come here to find ways to ease this "suffering".  And that makes
this discussion beyond the scope of this news group.  You've tipped your
hand in your thinking by pointing out the "countless children starving to
death"

Why did you point out just the children?  A tug at the heart strings?  What
about the adults, the teens?  Pointing out ALL the people starving is a far
greater number and would thus better support your argument.  I'm only trying
to challenge the assumptions.  Namely, your assumption that starving
children is "wrong" and must be corrected.  There are lots of examples of
"miracles".  Yet, in the name of science, we ignore these.
Shouldn't we ask why before applying Design Science?  In other words Design
Science was created by removing assumptions, shouldn't we remove the
assumptions to the application as well?

> to save them by means of the Design Science Revolution has
> nothing to do
> with the delusion that we can ("literally") shift mountains
> if we believe
> hard enough.
>
>
> Paul Taylor.
>

My "delusion" in the self (and group) creation of reality comes not from a
blind belief in the words of the Bible, but from my growing understanding of
the hard sciences such as quantum mechanics.  Is it so absurd to think that
I can't take that mountain (vectors of energy, as Fuller saw it) and
rearrange those vectors with my mind (also vectors of energy?)?  By the way,
it's a safe bet that I won't be doing it anytime soon.  But everything in
the universe began first as a thought.  We can't help starving children with
design science or any other science until we first have the thought.

Everything we've ever done started with a thought.  Then we've applied
(redirected) energy to bring to reality that thought.  At every step in our
evolutionary process, we've done more with less energy.  Is that not the
goal of Design Science, efficiency of energy?  And would not the limit be,
then, to create directly with our thoughts?  Is that absurd?

Steve O
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:35:43 -0500
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From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: quadrillion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: richard fischbeck [mailto:dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 11:07 AM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: quadrillion
>
>
>
> Yes, there is always an exception. But I am attempting
> to dispel the conditioned-reflex that there is not
> enough to go around. By naming the per capita wealth
> on this planet, people may have a practical,
> understandable sense of the abundance in our midst.
>
> Dick
>

I like the idea.  For me (see my other ramblings) the thought of lack
creates an experience of lack.  Maybe to mystical an idea for this group.
Certainly thoughts of lack lead to actions that become self-fulfilling.  If
we can change this world perception, that alone would solve the majority if
not all the worlds problems.  I think the abundance is limitless though.

Steve O
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:59:29 +0100
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From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Re: Design Science Revolution
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----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>

> He cut out the assumptions and
> replaced them with demonstratable experience.

That doesn't seem to be what you're doing here. You're stating
undemonstrated/undemonstratable ideas about what souls decide.


> Why did you point out just the children?  A tug at the heart strings?
What
> about the adults, the teens?  Pointing out ALL the people starving is a
far
> greater number and would thus better support your argument.

Simple reason: babies haven't made choices about their predicament, whereas
it might be argued that adults may collaborate with their own suffering (not
that I want to go into the intricacies of that thought). My argument is not
helped by heaping up numbers.


> Is it so absurd to think that
> I can't take that mountain (vectors of energy, as Fuller saw it) and
> rearrange those vectors with my mind (also vectors of energy?)?

Er, yes.

> But everything in
> the universe began first as a thought.  We can't help starving children
with
> design science or any other science until we first have the thought.

Though I disagree with the first sentence, I appreciate that we can't help
people without thinking. That doesn't mean that we can make things happen
just by thinking about them, or wishing, or believing, as you seemed to be
saying before.


Paul Taylor.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:27:46 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Cosmic accounting
MIME-Version: 1.0
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              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFE1BD.0C89F6E0"

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I'll create a web site just for the purpose of quantifying cosmic =
accounting.=20

I'll need some input though ( help ), for instance the solar index? Or =
the amount of sun light that strikes the earth. I think NASA has some =
info on that. Then of course equating that into money, as in $$ per =
kilowatt hour. What's the average cost planet wide for a kilowatt?=20

Kirby et all?=20

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll create a web site just for the =
purpose of=20
quantifying cosmic accounting. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll need some input though ( help ), =
for=20
instance&nbsp;the solar index? Or the amount of sun light that strikes =
the=20
earth. I think NASA has some info on that. Then of course equating that =
into=20
money, as in $$ per kilowatt hour. What's the average cost planet wide =
for a=20
kilowatt?&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kirby et =
all?</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFE1BD.0C89F6E0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:39:11 -0700
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From:         richard fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic accounting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

To me, the sunlight we catch with biologicals and with
solar panels, etc. counts toward wealth.  Same with
wind, tide, the rest.  I mean, otherwise, it is
potential wealth.

Dick

--- marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM> wrote:
> I'll create a web site just for the purpose of
> quantifying cosmic accounting.
>
> I'll need some input though ( help ), for instance
> the solar index? Or the amount of sun light that
> strikes the earth. I think NASA has some info on
> that. Then of course equating that into money, as in
> $$ per kilowatt hour. What's the average cost planet
> wide for a kilowatt?
>
> Kirby et all?
>

=====
dickbeckhubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\///\\\///\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\//////\/\\\\\\////////\\\\/////\\\\\\\\////\/\/there are no bad kids!! utopia
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jun 2000 22:51:38 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic accounting
In-Reply-To:  <20000629213911.4214.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:39 PM 06/29/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>To me, the sunlight we catch with biologicals and with
>solar panels, etc. counts toward wealth.  Same with
>wind, tide, the rest.  I mean, otherwise, it is
>potential wealth.
>
>Dick

I don't think you'll find the World Bank accounting
in this way however.  GDP does not include unmetered
sunlight.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:36:22 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Design Science Revolution

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   30-JUN-2000  7:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Hitchens is an inveterate, "cranky institution"
 at the Lovestonite rag, The Nation.  I went to his booksigning
 at a local store, and he ended with making a nasty remark
 about My Fearless Leader, Lyn -- but only after I asked him
 about it.  that is known as "begging the question," and
 I seem to recall that he did liekwise on my comment
 about the good witch, Theresa.
    he makes a fundamental typecasting error, in presuming that
 the (or a) church should subume such a massive role,
 re the general welfare, when it is firstly a proseltyzing inst.
 (most folks, around here, prefer to worship Galileo .-)
    it must never be supposed, simply because
 we don't have such access to vast files of "news," that
 past saintings did not have there share of seeming clamoring;
 would you, do what theresa does, just for that?
 (I'm sure, Hitchens has an answer, perhaps similar
 to the one when I questioned him about his *scenario*
 for the bombing of the al-Shifa plant in Sudan,
 in his last book, _No One left to Lie To_;
 he refused to answer, and instead invited me outside,
 all macho swagger.  later, I was told that he was drunk; later still,
 that that is his preferred condition for public appearances.
 oddly enough, I was the one who was arrested, that night
 -- same bookstore !-)

 --Panama Deception!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm

 thus quoth:
  itself to litigation and protest were it run by any branch of the medical
  profession, is a deliberate one. The point is not the honest relief of
  suffering but the promulgation of a cult based on death and suffering and
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:53:55 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Thanks and "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff"

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   30-JUN-2000  7:53
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Imagine that all sentient being are enlightened,
 except for you, and his Upness the Godking
 of the Holy Tibetan Empire.
    We're not laughing at you, but with each-other!

 seriously, did anyone see the NYTBookReview
 of Ovville Schell's book on the filming
 of "7y in tibet" ??...  hilarious, and well-timed,
 considering the DL#14's boisterous Los Angeles attacks
 on Tibet *and* Taiwan.
    most Tibetans in the State Dept.'s Ressettlement Program,
 will not question the fact that the Lamadom was feudal, although
 they still persist with their anachcronisms (and lies)
 about the Cultural Revolution, implying that it's still going on!

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:40:13 -0700
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From:         geni <info@GENI.ORG>
Subject:      Bucky Fuller Theater in San Francisco
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Bucky Friends:
I want to invite you and any contacts in the San Francisco area to come
see the show: "Buckminster Fuller: The History and Mystery of the
Universe"
performed by Ron Campbell, edited by DW Jacobs.
Info and Producer is Foghouse Productions at http:\\www.foghouse.com

The show begins on July 7th at the Lorraine Hansberry Theater at Sutter
& Mason Streets -- with a scheduled run through August 13th.  This is
the same show that received a "critic's best" review at the premier in
San Diego this summer.  Both writer and actor have created the best of
what theater can be: educational, inspiring, poignant, provoative and
entertaining.

It's for every Bucky student, young and old -- and anyone who is
concerned about humanity and the direction of our planet.

GENI will also be participating in the lobby by hosting a Bucky book,
map and globes table.  Russ and Sharon Hoffman are the San Diego
volunteers who will be there for every show.  If you would like to
assist at the book table (and see the show for free), please contact me
and I can offer you the details.

I hope you will also forward this to all your Bay area contacts.  Word
of mouth and e-mail is what filled the theater in San Diego for every
show!

Fellow trimtab,
Peter Meisen
Global Energy Network Institute
peter@geni.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:07:04 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      BRENNEMAN
Comments: To: Ben.Mack@jwt.com
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Dear Ben,

Here's what I have been able to find about Richard J Brenneman:

He originally worked for the Evening Outlook newspaper in Santa Monica, CA.

He was working for the Sacramento Bee newspaper in Sacramento, CA, when he
wrote 'Fuller's Earth' and he lived in Davis, CA.

He was the editor of a newsletter, the Psientific American, for the
Sacramento Skeptics Society.

He wrote a book, 'Deadly Blessings', in July 1990.  It was published by
Prometheus Books.

AnyWho has 2 listings for him in Napa, CA: 707-226-2476 & 707-255-7812.

Yahoo has his email as richard_brenneman@yahoo.com .

That's all I can find on him.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:14:31 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
Comments: To: Robert Bringhurst <RBringhurst@compuserve.com>
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Dear Robert,

Try as I might, I can't locate that quote. It could be in an article or some
audio or video tape.  But I'm sure Bucky said it or something like it.  It
sounds so like him.  I even looked in the 'Synergetics Dictionary', but no
luck.  Sorry.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Bringhurst" <RBringhurst@compuserve.com>
To: "Joe Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller


> Dear Mr Moore,
>
> I am assured that you know more than almost anyone
> else about the work of Buckminster Fuller. I wonder if
> you can help me find something in his work.
>
> I am editing the selected writings of the Native Canadian artist
> Bill Reid, who died two years ago. Among his papers is the
> text of a lecture he gave on Native American dugout canoes.
> He credits Buckminster Fuller with an important idea on this
> theme, and I am attempting to find the source in Fuller's
> writings.
>         The passage in question, reads as follows:
>
> >> Buckminster Fuller may well have been right when he said
> that the beginnings of design are found in the early work of those
> who lived by and of the sea. For it is possible to build some kind
> of structure merely by piling pieces of debris on top of one another
> until you get something you can use, no matter how clumsy it may
> be, provided you build it on land. But when you decide to go to sea,
> you discover very soon that you have to contend with factors such
> as weight to volume relationships, width to length ratios, relations
> of strength to thickness, depth and shape to stability. And that's
> only the beginning. You have to consider the nature of materials, to
> invent the tools to effect their transformation so they can be used.
> You have to consider means of propulsion and navigation: how to
> get from here to there and back again without getting lost. <<
>
> I do not know whether some or all of this may be direct quotation
> from Fuller. But in looking through his books, I have not yet found
> a passage in which this idea is really raised. Watercraft are mentioned
> very frequently, of course, but I have not yet found a passage where
> Fuller says more or less explicitly "that the beginnings of design are
> found in the early work of those who lived by and of the sea."
> Do you know where I might find this theme in Fuller's work, or can you
> suggest someone else who might know that work well enough to help me?
>
> Many thanks,
> Robert Bringhurst
>