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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 00:58:19 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         John Belt <belt@OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Molecular Expressions Science,
              Optics and You - Powers Of 10 Interactive Java T
In-Reply-To:  <000901c02a38$9a1b7600$0c08fbcf@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        fyi/john belt

        The film/video copy is POWERS OF TEN by Charles Eames.
The video is available in the "Films of Charles and Ray Eames" through
"UNCOMMON VIDEO" / "Viewfinders Inc", Chicago, IL.  They have a
web site and good prices.

        The video or FILM version is available from Pyramid Films,
the film production company, but expect higher prices.

.......................................................>>>>>
On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Joe S Moore wrote:

> Powers of Ten
> "View the Milky Way at 10 million light years from the Earth. Then move through space towards the Earth in single order of magnitudes until you reach an oak tree just outside the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory in Tallahassee, Florida. Then begin to move from the actual size of a leaf into the microscopic world through leaf cell walls, cell nucleus, DNA and finally, into the subatomic universe of electrons and protons."
>
>
>  http://www.microscopy.fsu.edu/optics/tutorials/java/powersof10/index.html
>
> Excellent!
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 00:00:01 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list.  It has
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        And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller.
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Pat
 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
                           -----------------------
                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:52:17 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: LLOYD SIEDEN
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Joe- Can I also listen to Bucky on the net anywhere,
that you know of?

Dick

--- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> Lloyd Sieden (http://www.lauralee.com/sieden.htm ),
> the author of a recently reprinted book about
> Buckminster Fuller, has been interviewed 4 times by
> Laura Lee of the "Laura Lee Show":
>
> 1 Tape # 2074, 8-03-00, "Bucky Fuller, Life as an
> Experiment"(Part I), 1 hour
> 1 Tape # 2075, 8-15-00, "Bucky Fuller, Life as an
> Experiment-Part II", 1 hour
> These 2 interviews can be heard at:
> http://www.lauralee.com/archives/index2.htm
>
> and
> 1 Tape # 1232, ?-?-99, "Practical Applications of
> Bucky Fuller's Ideas", ? hour
> 1 Tape # 1367, ?-?-99, "Bucky Fuller's Concepts", ?
> hour
> Copies of all the tapes are available for sale.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:01:03 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      NASA CONTRACT NGR 14-008-002
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION

Contract NGR 14-008-002

STRUCTURAL DESIGN CONCEPTS FOR FUTURE SPACE MISSIONS

Progress Report for period May 1, 1968 to October 31, 1968

FACULTY FORM 602

N69-29417 (ACCESSION NUMBER)

63 PAGES, CODE 1

CR#101577 (NASSA CR OR TMX OR AD NUMBER)

CATAGORY 19

THE SCHOOL OF TECHNOLOGY

SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY

STRUCTURAL DESIGN CONCEPTS FOR FUTURE SPACE MISSIONS

National Aeronautics and Space Administration

November 1, 1968, Progress Report

NASA Contract NGR 14-008-002

Jullan H. Lauchner

R. Buckminster Fuller

Joseph D. Clinton

Mark B. Mabee

Richard M. Moeller

Richard Flood


 http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/geod/GEOD.pdf


Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE=20
ADMINISTRATION</STRONG></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>Contract NGR =
14-008-002</STRONG></P></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>STRUCTURAL DESIGN CONCEPTS FOR FUTURE SPACE=20
MISSIONS</STRONG></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Progress Report for period May =
1, 1968 to=20
October 31, 1968</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>FACULTY FORM=20
602</FONT></STRONG></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>N69-29417 </STRONG></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><STRONG>(ACCESSION NUMBER)</STRONG></P></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>63 PAGES, =
</FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>CODE 1</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>CR#101577 =
</FONT></STRONG></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>(NASSA CR OR TMX OR AD=20
NUMBER)</STRONG></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>CATAGORY=20
19</FONT></STRONG></FONT></FONT></P><FONT face=3DArial>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>THE SCHOOL OF=20
TECHNOLOGY</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>SOUTHERN ILLINOIS=20
UNIVERSITY</FONT></STRONG></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>STRUCTURAL DESIGN CONCEPTS FOR =
FUTURE SPACE=20
MISSIONS</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>National Aeronautics and Space=20
Administration</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>November 1, 1968,=20
</FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Progress =
Report</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>NASA Contract NGR=20
14-008-002</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Jullan H.=20
Lauchner</FONT></STRONG></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>R. Buckminster Fuller</STRONG></P></FONT><FONT =

face=3DArial>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Joseph D. =
Clinton</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Mark B. =
Mabee</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Richard M. =
Moeller</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Richard =
Flood</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter></FONT><BR><STRONG><FONT =
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/geod/GEOD.pdf"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/geod/GEOD.pdf</FONT></STRONG><=
/A></P><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow">
<DIV align=3Dcenter><BR><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Joe S Moore: =
</FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: </FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>=
<FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:07:41 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      MONOHEX PATENT
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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U.S. PATENT-3,197,927

APPLICATION-DECEMBER 19, 1961

SERIAL NO.-160,450

PATENTED-AUGUST 3, 1965

UNITED STATES PATENT OFFICE

RIchard Buckminster Fuller, 407 S. Forest St., Carbondale, Ill.

GEODESIC STRUCTURES


 http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/geod/monohex.pdf

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffff00><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><FONT face=3DArial>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>U.S. =
PATENT&#8212;3,197,927</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>APPLICATION&#8212;DECEMBER 19,=20
1961</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>SERIAL =
NO.&#8212;160,450</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>PATENTED&#8212;AUGUST 3,=20
1965</FONT></STRONG></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>UNITED STATES PATENT =
OFFICE</STRONG></P></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>RIchard Buckminster Fuller, 407 S. Forest St., =

Carbondale, Ill.</STRONG></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>GEODESIC STRUCTURES</STRONG></P></FONT></FONT>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><BR><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/geod/monohex.pdf"><STRONG><FONT=
=20
size=3D2>http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/geod/monohex.pdf</FONT></STRON=
G></A></DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow">
<DIV align=3Dcenter><BR><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Joe S Moore: =
</FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: </FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>=
<FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:16:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      NEWDOME SOFTWARE
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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NEWDOME by Jay Salsburg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

"What is NEWDOME for the Macintosh? NEWDOME is a program which =
calculates the properties of a geodesic dome symmetry triangle. NEWDOME =
calculates spherical vertex coordinates, symmetry triangle topological =
abundance, and chord factors. NEWDOME supports class I (alternate) and =
class II (triacon) breakdowns for Icosahedron, Octahedron and =
Tetrahedron polyhedron types. NEWDOME also supports "Buckyball" =
formations as well as elliptical geodesics."

 http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/newdome.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#00ffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1>
<H1>
<CENTER><FONT color=3D#ff0000>NEWDOME by Jay =
Salsburg</FONT></CENTER></H1>
<HR>
<BR><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>"What is NEWDOME for the Macintosh? NEWDOME =
is a=20
program which calculates the properties of a geodesic dome symmetry =
triangle.=20
NEWDOME calculates spherical vertex coordinates, symmetry triangle =
topological=20
abundance, and chord factors. NEWDOME supports class I (alternate) and =
class II=20
(triacon) breakdowns for Icosahedron, Octahedron and Tetrahedron =
polyhedron=20
types. NEWDOME also supports "Buckyball" formations as well as =
elliptical=20
geodesics."</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" =
size=3D1></FONT><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/newdome.html"><STRONG>http://ww=
w.salsburg.com/nightlife/newdome.html</STRONG></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore: =
</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG><=
/A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:36:12 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: LLOYD SIEDEN
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dick,

See this page at the BFI's web site:

http://www.bfi.org/tIMELINEDATA5.htm

Scroll down to the blue section called "R Buckminster Fuller's Life";
As you scroll to the right, click on each of the 6 Gramophone icons (MAC or
PC).
They're audio & video in "rm" format; each takes a while to download (10min
@28.8), but they're worth it.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: LLOYD SIEDEN


> Joe- Can I also listen to Bucky on the net anywhere,
> that you know of?
>
> Dick
>
> --- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> > Lloyd Sieden (http://www.lauralee.com/sieden.htm ),
> > the author of a recently reprinted book about
> > Buckminster Fuller, has been interviewed 4 times by
> > Laura Lee of the "Laura Lee Show":
> >
> > 1 Tape # 2074, 8-03-00, "Bucky Fuller, Life as an
> > Experiment"(Part I), 1 hour
> > 1 Tape # 2075, 8-15-00, "Bucky Fuller, Life as an
> > Experiment-Part II", 1 hour
> > These 2 interviews can be heard at:
> > http://www.lauralee.com/archives/index2.htm
> >
> > and
> > 1 Tape # 1232, ?-?-99, "Practical Applications of
> > Bucky Fuller's Ideas", ? hour
> > 1 Tape # 1367, ?-?-99, "Bucky Fuller's Concepts", ?
> > hour
> > Copies of all the tapes are available for sale.
> >
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
> >
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:54:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      VIDEO CLIPS AT BFI
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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7 video clips at the Buckminster Fuller Institute:

 http://www.bfi.org/audio/video_clips.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><STRONG>7 video clips at the =
Buckminster Fuller=20
Institute:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/audio/video_clips.htm"><STRONG>http://www.bfi.=
org/audio/video_clips.htm</STRONG></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore: =
</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG><=
/A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:10:39 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      AUDIO/VIDEO CLIPS AT BFI
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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20 audio/video clips at the Buckminster Fuller Institute:

 http://www.bfi.org/audio/

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><STRONG>20 audio/video clips at the =
Buckminster=20
Fuller Institute:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/audio/"><STRONG>http://www.bfi.org/audio/</STR=
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore: =
</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG><=
/A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
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------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C02BD2.E774EC60
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Content-Disposition: attachment;
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[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.bfi.org/audio/

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.bfi.org/audio/
Modified=209BC8A90C2CC00125

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C02BD2.E774EC60--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:59:58 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      STRESS ANALYSIS OF DOMES
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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CADRE Pro 3D Finite Element Structural Analysis Software

"Geodesic structures:  CADRE Pro 3.3 comes with a complete model =
generator for geodesic domes and spheres and it functions with both =
plates or beams.   Includes tetrahedrons, octahedrons and icosahedrons =
of any selected frequency or class."

 http://www.cadreanalytic.com/Cadrepro.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffff00>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">CADRE Pro 3D Finite Element =
Structural=20
Analysis Software</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>"Geodesic structures</STRONG>:&nbsp; CADRE Pro 3.3 comes =
with a=20
complete model generator for geodesic domes and spheres and it functions =
with=20
both plates or beams. &nbsp; Includes tetrahedrons, octahedrons and =
icosahedrons=20
of any selected frequency or class."<!--mstheme--></DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.cadreanalytic.com/Cadrepro.htm">http://www.cadreanalyt=
ic.com/Cadrepro.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.cadreanalytic.com/Cadrepro.htm

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:21:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: LLOYD SIEDEN
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> Dick,
>
> See this page at the BFI's web site:
>
> http://www.bfi.org/tIMELINEDATA5.htm
>
> Scroll down to the blue section called "R
> Buckminster Fuller's Life";
>

Thanks yet again!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:58:45 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Clinton/NASA paper
Comments: To: "Goldman, Dan" <GOLDMANDM@phibred.com>
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dan,

See if you can get ahold of a copy of DOME magazine for Summer 1992.  There
is an absolutely EXCELLENT article (pp42-47) all about the history of dome
math which includes a bibliography that mentions the paper you're looking
for.  It has 27 refs including the report, "Advanced Structural Geometry
Studies. Part 1- Polyhedral Subdivision Concepts for Structural
Applications", NASA contract  CR-1734 by Joe Clinton in 1971.

You can probably buy a copy of it from the US Dept of Commerce's National
Technical Information Service (NTIS) in Springfield, VA.  Try their number
for "New Orders for Documents & Reports", 703-487-4650.  That # was good in
1986; you might have to look for a more recent # and get their catalog first
in order to get the correct "Document Number" before making your order.

BTW, Dome mag on page 20 in the Fall '92 issue gave Clinton's address as:

Joseph D Clinton
Clinton International
Design Consultants
334 MacKenzie Drive
West Chester, PA 19380

and on the inside back cover of the same issue:
215-692-5725

PS: The article also includes a software program (written in BASIC) for
doing dome calculations.

Please let us know if you are successful in getting a copy.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Goldman, Dan" <GOLDMANDM@phibred.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 5:50 AM
Subject: Clinton/NASA paper


> Joe,
>  I was looking at one of the early NASA papers, compliments of your
posting
> on:
>  http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/geod/GEOD.pdf
>
> the one I'm looking for is:
> Advanced structural geometry studies. Part 1: Polyhedral subdivision
> concepts for structural applications
>   I have not been able to find Part 1.
>
> Any chance there is a copy of this anywhere?
>
> thx
> -DmG
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:32:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      BUCKY PICS
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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In case anyone is interested,
there are 955 Bucky-related pics at the following URL:

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/

Have fun!

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffff00>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D5><STRONG>In case anyone is=20
interested,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D5><STRONG>there are 955 =
Bucky-related pics=20
at the following URL:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" =
size=3D5><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D5><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.=
com/~joemoore/Pics/</STRONG></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Have=20
fun!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG><=
/A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:01:32 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Supreme Court and elections

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   02-OCT-2000  7:01
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 your 5-4 decision was taken out in spades,
 at the behest of Gore's lawyer, Jack Keeney, Jr.
 -- technically the DNC's counsel on this case against it --
 to nullify the VRA o'65.  or,
 whatever is the process for not hearing an appeal,
 of Sentelle's 3-judge-panel's agreement with Keeney.

 Nader has not said a single word, that was reported, about this,
 and niether have any of his local spokesfolk,
 that I have spoken with.

 does this have any importance, at all, or
 is it, as my Green Councillor said at one of his fundraisers
 (at the UU Church),
 the original Act (eventually?) required extensive gerrymandering,
 but that will be mitigated by the Green's push for PR
 -- proportional representation,
 which would effectively parliamentarize our national goment!
    many are aware that the Act comes-up for renewal in '07, but
 I've only met one person, thus far, who knew
 about the Supreme Court's decision -- although
 he denied that it was "as broad" as nullification -- and
 he came from the Annenberg School to speak to us!
    but, what do you call it, when
 the argument, transcribed, of Keeney, was that
 the Act is unconstitutional, and that the Party is just another
 of private groups?

 --Undead President!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm

 thus quoth:
  3d party presence. Abolishing slavery in this country would not have


 alas!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 17:01:27 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         DL XX <dlxx00@MAIL.COM>
Subject:      DO YOU WANT TO HELP BUILD A SMALL CIITY OF DOMES?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello Everyone,

A friend of mine who is starting a new dome company here (Atlanta, Ga area)
asked me to post this for him.

(By the way - can he become a member of this list?)


YESTERDAY I SENT OUT THIS NOTICE TO MOST DOME COMPANIES IN THE U.S. &
CANADA.

So far only 2 companies have responded: 1 - negatively & the other not
really in a position to be of much help.


WHO WANTS TO J/V WITH US TO BUILD A DOME CITY FOR 5,000 PEOPLE?

I'm sending this out to ALL known U.S. & Canadian Dome manufacturers.

We're Seeking 1 &/or more Dome Manufacturers to J/V with us to Build a Dome
City for 5,000 people.

(On 1,000+ acres - about 1,000 dome homes,150+ dome business buildings, &
1,000+ domes for special uses)

BASIC REQUIREMENTS:

1)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE your yearly
Dome production;

2)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to WORK HARMONIOUSLY with OTHER Dome
Companies.

3)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to INVEST Credit &/or Investment of
$___________ or More;
(It will take about $250,000 <cash & credit> from 1 or more
Companies to start)

I CAN & WILL MATCH that & MORE.

(IF Several Dome Companies participate - then, the amount per each company
will drop)

4)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to PROVIDE 1+ of YOUR COMPLETED
Dome 'Model Home' on the Property;

5)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to Set Up a 'branch' of your Company
IN the 1st Dome City, & OTHERS to follow;

6)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to J/V BUILDING several DIFFERENT
types of dome buildings - INCLUDING my Dome Systems.;

7)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to Build ECO-HEALTHY SUSTAINABLE &/or
SELF-SUFFICIENT Dome Buiildings.
(I've Already fully developed several Systems)

8)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to J/V Building SEVERAL Dome Cities in
different countries;

9)  READY, WILLING & ABLE to CHANGE the ways you're Marketing &
Producing your domes;

10) READY, WILLING & ABLE to Receive millions of dollars in FREE
Publicity all over the world.

11) READY, WILLING & ABLE to Receive millions of dollars INCOME
yearly.

Well - I am READY, WILLING & ABLE TO DO ANYTHING & EVERYTHING NECESSARY TO
START BUILDING THE 1ST PHASE OF THE 1ST DOME CITY THIS YEAR - ARE YOU?

I am VERY SERIOUS about this.

IF WE BUILD IT - THEY WILL COME.

I've been working on a Dome City System for over 20 years now - & I believe
I've got it Fully together.
I also have experience in doing Major development projects (up to &
including participating in building a community of about 12,000 people)

I've already designed 'Desert', 'Tropical' & 'Temperate' Cities.

REALIZE - THERE ARE LITERALLY MILLIONS OF 'CONVENTIONAL' BUILDERS ON THE
PLANET - BUT ONLY A FEW DOME BUILDERS.

Domes have been 'out there' for about 45 yrs or so - & only a few
hundred(?), I believe, are being produced yearly.

Manufactured Homes have been out for less time than domes - & these
companies are producing 10's of 1,000's of units/month.

LET'S MAKE DOME BUILDINGS THE 'STANDARD' FOR THE 21ST CENTURY!!

ARE YOU WITH ME - OR AGAINST ME?   IT'S YOUR CHOICE.

The REAL QUESTION IS: DO YOU WANT TO HELP BUILD DOME CITIES?

DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A 'MAJOR' PART IN THIS/THESE PROJECTS?
& MAKE MAJOR SALES YEARLY?

DO YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A DOME CITY YOURSELF?

REALIZE:  'UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL" (or do very little business)

PLEASE!!! ONLY SERIOUSLY INTERESTED & QUALIFIED COMPANIES RESPOND!

Don't waste our or your time UNLESS you're VERY SERIOUS about these
Projects.

For those of you who want to Seriously Talk about it - we can do it online
via ICQ.

I'm Really looking forward to hearing from Serious Companies who Really Want
to See Dome Cities ALL over the world.


........................................................
iWon.com       http://www.iwon.com     why wouldn't you?
........................................................
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:38:40 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: LLOYD SIEDEN
In-Reply-To:  <20001002192144.21441.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Re: http://www.lauralee.com/sieden.htm

I realize it's not always easy to think on one's feet, which
makes it easy to find flaws in radio interviews such as this
one.

I think Sieden's analysis that Bucky was expelled from Harvard
because he was just partying all the time, and that drunken
partying aptly characterizes his behavior through to the
Chicago period, is misinformative.

In a lot of ways, I prefer the Alden Hatch narrative regarding
this period, which points out that Bucky was disappointed with
Harvard because it didn't live up to his loftly, romantic ideals,
plus he was not going to be invited into any of the clubs,
meaning he was facing a kind of social ostracism that he felt
reflected badly on his family (Princeton had clubs as well in
the 1970s, when I attended, and a process called "bicker" for
getting into them).  Taking the Zeigfield Follies ladies out
for dinner in New York was certainly a precipitating event
leading to his expulsion, but it wasn't symptomatic of a kind
of "Animal House" persona.  Fuller was not a John Belushi type
character.

Alden makes this clear when he explains that flunking out
would have been an unthinkable alternative.  Not letting
the family down was a prime motivation.  Reputation was
important to Fuller.  So he maintained a GPA higher than a
gentlemans' C -- the cultural norm in those days. In other
words, he was never in danger of flunking out. Plus he had
deliberately chosen subjects that would prove challenging,
and not a lot of math stuff, which he considered too easy.
In other words, he had made a deliberate attempt to broaden
himself in the liberal arts tradition, not just slide through
-- even if it's also the case that he wasn't especially
thrilled by these other subjects (or with those who professed
to know about them).

IMO, the Seiden's radio-broadcast account of events leading
up to the 1927 crisis didn't sufficiently convey that Fuller
had put a lot of energy into his job with Armour, and had
basically resigned from the Navy to be with his family
(Alexandra's health would not have permitted her and Anne
to move to Manila, where he would have been stationed).  He
was fun-loving but in family settings, as Alden makes clear,
but not off partying and squandering the family's savings
at every turn.  He and Anne were struggling responsibly to
make ends meet -- but the deck was stacked against them (as
it was and still is for many young families).  Then came the
disaster with Kelly Truck -- a company slated for closing,
unbeknownst to Bucky, who jumped aboard on invitation from
a friend (Seiden does cover these details in his book --
e.g. his last section in Chapter 4, pp 74-75 is basically
a rewrite of the Hatch narrative -- as are many other
sections of the book).

My impression of Sieden's book is that in some ways it's like
those student papers which only thinly disguise the sources
with minor wording changes.  This is not an accusation of
plagiarism as Sieden dutifully documents his sources.  Still,
it reads in places like a hodge podge of other bios, but with
a lot of interpolated content from 'Critical Path' and other
sources (Fuller's lectures).  This is Sieden's first book and
I don't think he's making any claims to being a great writer.

Given Sieden did not know Bucky personally and is so reliant
on second hand sources, I'm not sure he's in a position to
pass the rather harsh judgements of character he comes up
with e.g. on pages 67-68 (male chauvanism, little sensitivity
to the feelings of others, especially women).  These "insights"
into character flaws seem a bit too facile, coming from one who
is either relying on other bios, or perhaps impressions from
family members too close to the principal to offer unbiased
analyses (he cites "interview with Jaime Snyder" re his paragraph
mentioning the tombstone, but I don't know if that means Jaime
is the source of this judgement that the epitaph is reflective
of "Bucky's wishes exclusively" and that this is characteristic).

I guess what I'm saying is that Sieden as biographer has not
impressed me with any relevant credentials that would help
authenticate his deeper level analysis of Fuller's character.
I think he's entitled to his reading and analyses of course, but
I'm not inclined to take his voice as especially authoritative
or "on the money" when it comes to interpreting Fuller's inner
psyche.  Nothing in Sieden's background would indicate to me
that he's especially skilled as a psychologist or psychoanalyst.

Judging from this radio interview, Sieden also seems to agree
with Jaime that Fuller was not an especially gifted communicator
(Jaime having once offered to be Fuller's spokesperson or public
interpreter).  Although I would agree that much of what Fuller
said or wrote is not always easy to understand, to imply that
a former Charles Eliot Norton Professor of Poetry (Harvard, 1962),
and a man who spoke around the world to large audiences for hours
at a time, was not especially gifted as a communicator should
be considered a controversial proposition at the very least,
not an obvious truth by any means.

Given Fuller's own clearly stated preference for being not
understood over misunderstood (he'd rather you know you don't
really know what he means vs. thinking you know where you
really don't), it's not obvious to me that he needs a lot of
help getting his ideas across.  In my own case, it was more
a matter of Fuller's writings helping me to get clearer
regarding some difficult concepts -- the writings themselves
weren't ever the primary barrier.  Indeed, few writers have
tackled such difficult content with such a commitment to
remaining intelligible to laymen.  I don't consider Martin
Heidegger, James Joyce, Gertrude Stein or Madame Blavatsky
to be models of clarity when compared with Fuller-the-writer.
True, it takes some getting used to Fuller-the-speaker,
because of his accent, speech habits, and the sometimes
poor quality of the recordings, but for the most part that
hasn't been a huge problem for me either.

I think Fuller's corpus deserves a lot more focus and scholarship,
at the university level especially, and that works like the
'Synergetics Dictionary' by E.J. Applewhite help make clear what
Fuller's self-consciously-evolved and remote-from-the-mainstream
usage patterns were, around a large vocabulary of key terms
(e.g. 'precession').  But the central premise should not be one
of Fuller being a poor communicator (I'd argue that he was a
very effective communicator), nor that we're in any desperate
need of dime store psychology in order to learn "what made him
tick," the premise here being that maybe Fuller is little studied
or appreciated because he was close to crazy (Conway) or at
minimum severely neurotic.

I don't think either of these theses (Bucky as poor communicator,
Bucky as borderline psycho) actually hold much water, on closer
examination.  Given I think Sieden buys in to both of these
premises to some degree, I have to respectfully demur when it
comes to a lot of his subtext and background analyses.  I'd put
a rather different spin on Fuller's bio (my version, quite short,
is at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bio.html).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 17:57:41 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         DL XX <dlxx00@MAIL.COM>
Subject:      WHO WANTS TO LIVE & WORK IN A SMALL DOME CITY?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Here's another post from him.

By the way, I get first dibs on a mid-level dome home!



WHO WANTS TO LIVE & WORK IN A SMALL DOME CITY?

Very soon, we will 'officially' offer the opportunity to do just that.

We will be building a small dome city for about 5,000 people on over 1,000
acres of rural land in the South.
(The property is just over 1 mile in each direction - the location will NOT
be revealed yet)

This City will be Fully Eco-Healthy Sustainable & mostly Self-Sufficient.

Because of the CC&R's - ONLY Businesses & Employees of those businesses;
retired people, home-based business people & tourists & a few other special
categories of people will be allowed to Build/Purchase or Rent/Lease a dome
or other alternative home or business building in the community.

The 'living' accomodations will range from camping to executive homes;
including the Resort.

(the prices will be much cheaper than in any comparable town -
including Minimal utility bills - usually on the phone lines, local water,
etc)

ALL buildings will be built Eco-Healthy Sustainable & somewhat
Self-Sufficient.

ALL buildings will have Air & Water Purification & Energization Systems.

ALL buildings will be Recycling most of their own waste products; whatever
isn't recycled 'in house' will be taken by the local Recycling companies.

ALL vehicles will be either electric or 'human-powered' (Since the city is
small, it'll be very Easy & Healthy to 'walk' to work, to the stores, to
school; Maximum - a 20-min walk.

The Library will be Fully On-Line - including audio & video tapes, but NO
books.

ALL news, newsletters, etc will be Fully On-Line - a Minimum of paper will
be used; VERY FEW trees to be cut down for use in THIS City.

ALL landscaping will be 'edible', 'xeriscaping', 'permaculture' & 'organic'
farming - including part of the parks.

Every building will provide most, if not all of its own power needs

Every building will provide most, if not all of its own heating/cooling
needs.

The schools will be private & alternative - as well as home schooling.

For those who are not in their own business; you must be willing to work for
one or more of the following types of companies - ON the property.

The types of businesses that will be set up in the community are:

1)  Dome & other alternative housing companies

2)  Recycling companies

3)  Home-based businesses

4)  Alternative health companies

5)  Eco-Environmental companies

6)  Eco-Health Sustainable Resorts

7)  Organic Agriculture

8)  Alternative vehicles companies

9)  Some hi-tech companies

10)  Tele-commuting companies.

11)  Service & Repair companies for the above

12)  Other types of companies that conform to the basic CC&R's


This is ONLY a PARTIAL list of the features of this community. Later, more
details will be released.

This gives you somewhat of an idea of what is being planned now.

If you are SERIOUSLY INTERESTED, please email us @:
ecohealthrsrtcity@mail.com

Thanks for your time.


........................................................
iWon.com       http://www.iwon.com     why wouldn't you?
........................................................
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:52:34 -0500
Reply-To:     cstoffregen@madison.tec.wi.us
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Chuck <cstoffregen@MADISON.TEC.WI.US>
Organization: Madison Area Technical College
Subject:      Re: Clinton/NASA paper
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dan,
I got a copy of that report through interlibrary loan.
Chuck Stoffregen


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Goldman, Dan" <GOLDMANDM@phibred.com>
> To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 5:50 AM
> Subject: Clinton/NASA paper
>
> > Joe,
> >  I was looking at one of the early NASA papers, compliments of your
> posting
> > on:
> >  http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/geod/GEOD.pdf
> >
> > the one I'm looking for is:
> > Advanced structural geometry studies. Part 1: Polyhedral subdivision
> > concepts for structural applications
> >   I have not been able to find Part 1.
> >
> > Any chance there is a copy of this anywhere?
> >
> > thx
> > -DmG
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:39:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: BUCKY PICS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> In case anyone is interested,
> there are 955 Bucky-related pics at the following
> URL:
>
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/
>
> Have fun!
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>

I'm glad to have your face with your name now, Joe. !)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:16:34 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      SPHERICAL MODELS REPUBLISHED
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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SPHERICAL MODELS
by Magnus J. Wenninger
"Unabridged Dover (1999) republication of the work published by =
Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, England, 1979. Foreword, =
Introduction. Epilogue. References. List of Models. New Appendix. l76pp. =
8=BD x 11. Paperbound."


 http://www.employees.csbsju.edu/mwenninger/magnus2000.html


Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#00ff00><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><STRONG>
<H1 align=3Dcenter>SPHERICAL MODELS</H1>
<H3 align=3Dcenter>by Magnus J. Wenninger</STRONG></H3>
<P align=3Dcenter><STRONG>"Unabridged Dover (1999) republication of the =
work=20
published by Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, England, 1979. =
Foreword,=20
Introduction. Epilogue. References. List of Models. New Appendix. l76pp. =
8=BD x=20
11. Paperbound."</STRONG></P>
<P align=3Dcenter></FONT><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.employees.csbsju.edu/mwenninger/magnus2000.html"><STRO=
NG>http://www.employees.csbsju.edu/mwenninger/magnus2000.html</STRONG></A=
></P><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG><=
/A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:28:01 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         ANTIGEN_IMAIL3 <ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:      Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Antigen for Exchange found Magnus Wenninger's new book, Spherical Models.url
matching =<in>*.URL file filter.
The file is currently Deleted.  The message, "     SPHERICAL MODELS
REPUBLISHED", was
sent from         Joe S Moore  and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at ORGANIZATION/PICATINNY/IMAIL3.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:40:24 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      ICOSA PROJECTIONS OF PLANETS
MIME-Version: 1.0
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9 icosa projection maps of the planets by Calvin J Hamilton:
(click on colored thumbnails)

 http://planetscapes.com/solar/eng/ico.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><STRONG>9 icosa projection maps of the =
planets by=20
Calvin J Hamilton:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><STRONG>(click on colored=20
thumbnails)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://planetscapes.com/solar/eng/ico.htm"><STRONG>http://planets=
capes.com/solar/eng/ico.htm</STRONG></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore: =
</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG><=
/A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:50:39 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         ANTIGEN_IMAIL3 <ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:      Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Antigen for Exchange found Planetary Icosahedrons.url matching =<in>*.URL
file filter.
The file is currently Deleted.  The message, "     ICOSA PROJECTIONS OF
PLANETS", was
sent from         Joe S Moore  and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at ORGANIZATION/PICATINNY/IMAIL3.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:58:55 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Clinton/NASA paper
Comments: To: J & D Goldman <jmgoldma@dwx.com>
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dan,

Yes, I'm sure--I am looking at the actual magazine.  (I used to subscribe
for a year.  I really should resubscribe.)  I've noticed that DOME mag
hasn't kept their TOCs (Table of Contents) up to date on their web site.  I
wonder if something is wrong?  Have they stopped publishing?  I hope
not--they're a great source of info about domes.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "J & D Goldman" <jmgoldma@dwx.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:45 PM
Subject: Fw: Clinton/NASA paper


> Joe,
>   Thanks for the great info. Are you sure it was Summer '92? I checked
> the hoflin website where they have the table of contents and did not
> see any reference to that article. Doesn't mean it isn't there, but I
> just wanted to double check.
> Many thanks
> -DmG
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Joe S Moore [mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com]
> >Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 2:59 PM
> >To: Goldman, Dan
> >Cc: _Geodesic; _DomeHomeList
> >Subject: Re: Clinton/NASA paper
> >
> >Dan,
> >
> >See if you can get ahold of a copy of DOME magazine for Summer 1992.
> There
> >is an absolutely EXCELLENT article (pp42-47) all about the history of
> dome
> >math which includes a bibliography that mentions the paper you're
> looking
> >for.  It has 27 refs including the report, "Advanced Structural
> Geometry
> >Studies. Part 1- Polyhedral Subdivision Concepts for Structural
> >Applications", NASA contract  CR-1734 by Joe Clinton in 1971.
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Oct 2000 02:22:06 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      A virus consuming the planet
MIME-Version: 1.0
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              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C02CE0.B9793A00"

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Are we nothing more than the equivelent of a virus consuming this =
planet?

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are we nothing more than the equivelent =
of a virus=20
consuming this planet?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Oct 2000 07:01:50 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Supreme Court and elections

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   03-OCT-2000  7:01
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 your stance reminds me of the accepted hagiography of John Brown,
 a terribly manipulated & violence-prone man.  what is to be done,
 in the face of a President from "JR Gush Oil?"
    while my pollster friends (excusez-moi, such as they are) have
 told me of several instances in which delegates were stolen
 -- and then refused to repeat them, for my notes, here --
 there has never been, before the LA DemCon, *kosher* catering
 for a proverbial Nuremberg-style rally (take the fact that
 there were no platform-hearings planned, for the first time
 in decades, til we hosted *ad hoc* ones, as an indicator;
 not that the RepCon was any less stilted, as with
 the refusal to let Keyes into the building, even *with* delegates).
    this is why, having ceased campaigning for President,
 Lyn is now pushing an FDR-style platform, that Democrats (mainly)
 can commit too, in order to get a solid majority in Congress,
 to wield against these twin B*z*s of Bore, Inc. --
 in spite of the media horse-races.
    go ahead and make Nader's day, or Pat's, if you need to, because
 there is so-little difference between the 2 malthusians --
 their true political allegiance for life-long careers.
    and, if you think that "malthusian" is just a code-word
 for environmentalists, you are mostly correct, as they are reflected
 in the make-up of the Green Party;
 not to say that there is nothing to ecological thought.

 thus quoth:
  I am willing to become involved in resistance and sabotage of the
  system, such as 3d party candidacies. I recognize that important powers

 --Gush!
 http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm

 [that abbreviates "Against Oligarchy,"
 which is a series of speeches written by one
 of our hitorians, Tarpley, given to our semi-annual conference.]
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:58:25 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
In-Reply-To:  <000f01c02d13$05203800$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Are we nothing more than the equivalent of a virus consuming
> this planet?

Viruses can't reproduce without a host. Humans are more like a
bacteria that reproduces itself until all available resources
are used up.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Oct 2000 20:58:30 -0400
Reply-To:     Robert Allan Schwartz <notbob@tessellation.com>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Robert Allan Schwartz <notbob@TESSELLATION.COM>
Organization: Tessellation Training
Subject:      Joining this list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello,

How can I join this list?

Thank you,

Robert Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:43:07 -0700
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

More like a cancer. I read somewhere that a doctor, viewing
aerial photographs of urban sprawl, said it had an uncanny
resemblance to cancer growth.

marksomers wrote:

> Are we nothing more than the equivelent of a virus consuming
> this planet?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:46:57 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Building Big--All About Domes
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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PBS currently has a series called "Building Big". The episode about =
"Domes" will be shown next Tuesday, October 10, at 8pm (check your local =
listing).  The program mentions Aspension & Geodesic domes, among =
others.  See their web pages at the following URL:

 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/index.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffff00>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><STRONG>PBS currently has a series =
called=20
"Building Big". The episode about "Domes" will be shown next Tuesday, =
October=20
10, at 8pm (check your local listing).&nbsp; The program mentions =
Aspension=20
&amp; Geodesic domes, among others.&nbsp; See their web pages at the =
following=20
URL:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/index.html"><STRONG>http=
://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/index.html</STRONG></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"><BR><STRONG><FONT size=3D1>Joe S Moore: =

</FONT></STRONG><A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D1>joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D1>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: </FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D1>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>=
&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:56:57 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Gabriel Sroka <gdsroka@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Building Big on PBS

PBS is running a 5-part series this month called Building Big. On Oct 12 at
8 PM, my local PBS station KCET in Los Angeles will run the Domes
installment:

"Explores the history of the dome, from Emperor Hadrian's Pantheon to the
geodesic structures of Buckminster Fuller, and the science principles that
support them."

Other installments:

BRIDGES: Tuesday, October 3 at 9:00 p.m. repeat: Thursday, October 5 at
8:00 p.m.
Traces the history of bridge building from the stone arch bridges of the
Roman Empire to Japan's giant, all-steel Akashi-Kaikyo suspension bridge,
and shows how engineers have conquered ever-wider chasms with better
construction materials and design.

SKYSCRAPERS: Thursday, October 19 at 8:00 p.m.
>From the medieval towers of Italy's San Gimignano to New York's dueling
skyscrapers, from the Eiffel Tower to Malaysia's Petronas Towers, the
program examines the psychology and the physics behind the tallest
buildings.

DAMS: Thursday, October 26 at 8:00 p.m.
Dams store water, prevent floods and generate electricity. The program
explores the engineering challenges and social impact of big dams, from
Hoover's concrete arch to the Aswan High Dam, an underwater mountain on the
Nile riverbed.

TUNNELS: Thursday, November 2 at 8:00 p.m.
Engineers and workers have risked their lives burrowing through solid rock
and soft mud to create tunnels, from narrow, claustrophobic Roman stone
passages to modern, spacious subterranean networks with well-planned safety
features.

See www.pbs.org/buildingbig for more info.

Gabriel
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:00:14 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         ANTIGEN_IMAIL3 <ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:      Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Antigen for Exchange found BUILDING BIG All About Domes.url matching
=<in>*.URL file filter.
The file is currently Deleted.  The message, "     Building Big--All About
Domes", was
sent from         Joe S Moore  and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at ORGANIZATION/PICATINNY/IMAIL3.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:08:18 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: LLOYD SIEDEN
In-Reply-To:  <002101c02c08$c5ebcf60$b608fbcf@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Also on Laura Lee's website is this essay:
http://www.lauralee.com/news/bucky2000.htm
called "The Year 2000".  I recall reading this elsewhere, though I don't
remember where.

Brent

At 08:36 PM 10/1/00 , you wrote:
>Dick,
>
>See this page at the BFI's web site:
>
>http://www.bfi.org/tIMELINEDATA5.htm
>
>Scroll down to the blue section called "R Buckminster Fuller's Life"
>As you scroll to the right, click on each of the 6 Gramophone icons (MAC or
>PC).
>They're audio & video in "rm" format; each takes a while to download (10min
>@28.8), but they're worth it.
>
>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
>To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
>Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 8:52 AM
>Subject: Re: LLOYD SIEDEN
>
>
>> Joe- Can I also listen to Bucky on the net anywhere,
>> that you know of?
>>
>> Dick
>>
>> --- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
>> > Lloyd Sieden (http://www.lauralee.com/sieden.htm ),
>> > the author of a recently reprinted book about
>> > Buckminster Fuller, has been interviewed 4 times by
>> > Laura Lee of the "Laura Lee Show":
>> >
>> > 1 Tape # 2074, 8-03-00, "Bucky Fuller, Life as an
>> > Experiment"(Part I), 1 hour
>> > 1 Tape # 2075, 8-15-00, "Bucky Fuller, Life as an
>> > Experiment-Part II", 1 hour
>> > These 2 interviews can be heard at:
>> > http://www.lauralee.com/archives/index2.htm
>> >
>> > and
>> > 1 Tape # 1232, ?-?-99, "Practical Applications of
>> > Bucky Fuller's Ideas", ? hour
>> > 1 Tape # 1367, ?-?-99, "Bucky Fuller's Concepts", ?
>> > hour
>> > Copies of all the tapes are available for sale.
>> >
>> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
>> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:53:47 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         John Belt <belt@OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOOEACDNAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        Okay Dexter, You know we can't talk about politics
on this list group:-j  I'm not going to debate this one either.

        jb

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Dexter Graphic wrote:

> > Are we nothing more than the equivalent of a virus consuming
> > this planet?
>
> Viruses can't reproduce without a host. Humans are more like a
> bacteria that reproduces itself until all available resources
> are used up.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:06:16 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lloyd Sieden
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Brent,

It's lifted directly from BFI's web site.  See:
http://www.bfi.org/rbfy2k.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: LLOYD SIEDEN


> Also on Laura Lee's website is this essay:
> http://www.lauralee.com/news/bucky2000.htm
> called "The Year 2000".  I recall reading this elsewhere, though I don't
> remember where.
>
> Brent
>
> At 08:36 PM 10/1/00 , you wrote:
> >Dick,
> >
> >See this page at the BFI's web site:
> >
> >http://www.bfi.org/tIMELINEDATA5.htm
> >
> >Scroll down to the blue section called "R Buckminster Fuller's Life"
> >As you scroll to the right, click on each of the 6 Gramophone icons (MAC
or
> >PC).
> >They're audio & video in "rm" format; each takes a while to download
(10min
> >@28.8), but they're worth it.
> >
> >Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
> >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> >To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> >Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 8:52 AM
> >Subject: Re: LLOYD SIEDEN
> >
> >
> >> Joe- Can I also listen to Bucky on the net anywhere,
> >> that you know of?
> >>
> >> Dick
> >>
> >> --- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> >> > Lloyd Sieden (http://www.lauralee.com/sieden.htm ),
> >> > the author of a recently reprinted book about
> >> > Buckminster Fuller, has been interviewed 4 times by
> >> > Laura Lee of the "Laura Lee Show":
> >> >
> >> > 1 Tape # 2074, 8-03-00, "Bucky Fuller, Life as an
> >> > Experiment"(Part I), 1 hour
> >> > 1 Tape # 2075, 8-15-00, "Bucky Fuller, Life as an
> >> > Experiment-Part II", 1 hour
> >> > These 2 interviews can be heard at:
> >> > http://www.lauralee.com/archives/index2.htm
> >> >
> >> > and
> >> > 1 Tape # 1232, ?-?-99, "Practical Applications of
> >> > Bucky Fuller's Ideas", ? hour
> >> > 1 Tape # 1367, ?-?-99, "Bucky Fuller's Concepts", ?
> >> > hour
> >> > Copies of all the tapes are available for sale.
> >> >
> >> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> >> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> >> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:17:29 -0700
Reply-To:     bward@metro.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Bruce Ward <bward@METRO.NET>
Organization: chhhyehh...right...
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

According to Bucky, Humanity's chance of being a success in Universe is
dependent upon our ability to learn to modify our environment.  I doubt
we can expect much help from those who share such a low opinion of
Humanity.

John Belt wrote:

>         Okay Dexter, You know we can't talk about politics
> on this list group:-j  I'm not going to debate this one either.
>
>         jb
>
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Dexter Graphic wrote:
>
> > > Are we nothing more than the equivalent of a virus consuming
> > > this planet?
> >
> > Viruses can't reproduce without a host. Humans are more like a
> > bacteria that reproduces itself until all available resources
> > are used up.
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:13:23 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         DL XX <dlxx00@MAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
Comments: To: bward@metro.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Actually, it should be: ".... dependent upon our ability to LEARN to BE IN
HARMONY with our environment."

I don't know exactly what Bucky said - but this is what I say.

The Earth is in perfect balance & harmony - humanity is not.

Donald

------Original Message------
From: Bruce Ward <bward@metro.net>
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Sent: October 5, 2000 12:17:29 AM GMT
Subject: Re: A virus consuming the planet


According to Bucky, Humanity's chance of being a success in Universe is
dependent upon our ability to learn to modify our environment.  I doubt
we can expect much help from those who share such a low opinion of
Humanity.

John Belt wrote:

>         Okay Dexter, You know we can't talk about politics
> on this list group:-j  I'm not going to debate this one either.
>
>         jb
>
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Dexter Graphic wrote:
>
> > > Are we nothing more than the equivalent of a virus consuming
> > > this planet?
> >
> > Viruses can't reproduce without a host. Humans are more like a
> > bacteria that reproduces itself until all available resources
> > are used up.
> >


........................................................
iWon.com       http://www.iwon.com     why wouldn't you?
........................................................
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:24:21 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         DL XX <dlxx00@MAIL.COM>
Subject:      LET'S BUILD A DOME CITY NOW!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This message is posted at a new egroup DOMECITY.


Hello,

Thanks for joining our DOMECITY egroup.

I've been working for well over 20 years now to develop a Complete
Eco-Healthy Sustainable Self-Sufficient City System, & I believe I've 'got
it together' now.

This egroup is for the 'core Development people' who are:

1) VERY SERIOUS ABOUT PUTTING THEIR TIME & MONEY INTO THIS PROJECT.

2) ENTREPRENEURS - PARTICULARLY RELATING TO R.E. DEVELOPMENT; IE
Realtors, Developers, Builders, Investors, Architects, Engineers, Bldg
Supply Companies, etc.

3) NON-ENTREPRENEURS, BUT WHO BELIEVE STRONGLY ENOUGH IN THE PROJECT TO
INITIALLY 'INVEST' THEIR EXPERTISE, TIME & SKILLS INTO THE PROJECT - TO BE
PAID LATER - OF COURSE.

So, IF you 'fit' into any of the above categories - or maybe - into a
category I've left out, please join us in the 'Great Adventure' of Changing
the way we live on our beautiful planet.

I'm looking forward to talking with each & every one of you.

Thanks again for joining.

Sincerely, Dan - Moderator DOMECITY egroup - domecity@mail.com


........................................................
iWon.com       http://www.iwon.com     why wouldn't you?
........................................................
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 2000 22:44:49 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
Comments: To: bward@metro.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> According to Bucky, Humanity's chance of being a success in Universe
> is
> dependent upon our ability to learn to modify our environment.  I

Or, our ability to work with our environment.  Remember, geodesics
are also referred to as a natural structural system.

Triangles are *nature's* stable shape...not something mankind
came up with.

> doubt
> we can expect much help from those who share such a low opinion of
> Humanity.

Why?  There is a LOT to do...there's enough for everybody to do,
and we do need detractors to help keep us honest.  They provide
a counter to our pie-in-the-sky views, and help us develop even
better solutions in the long term.

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:17:21 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
In-Reply-To:  <39DBC612.4CB74B29@metro.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey, I thought this thread was a break from the more serious stuff so we
could vent our frustrations and enjoy some lighthearted humor!  -Dexter


> From: Bruce Ward
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 17:17
>
> According to Bucky, Humanity's chance of being a success in Universe is
> dependent upon our ability to learn to modify our environment.  I doubt
> we can expect much help from those who share such a low opinion of
> Humanity.
>
> John Belt wrote:
>
> >         Okay Dexter, You know we can't talk about politics
> > on this list group:-j  I'm not going to debate this one either.
> >
> >         jb
> >
> > On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Dexter Graphic wrote:
> >
> > > > Are we nothing more than the equivalent of a virus consuming
> > > > this planet?
> > >
> > > Viruses can't reproduce without a host. Humans are more like a
> > > bacteria that reproduces itself until all available resources
> > > are used up.
> > >
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:33:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: LET'S BUILD A DOME CITY NOW!
In-Reply-To:  <383667882.970705462514.JavaMail.root@web183-iw.dat01.mail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

So where do you go to sign up for this thing? There is no listing
for DOMECITY at http://egroups.com that I could find.  -Dexter


> From: DL XX
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 17:24
>
> This message is posted at a new egroup DOMECITY.
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for joining our DOMECITY egroup.
>
> I've been working for well over 20 years now to develop a Complete
> Eco-Healthy Sustainable Self-Sufficient City System, & I believe I've 'got
> it together' now.
>
> This egroup is for the 'core Development people' who are:
>
> 1) VERY SERIOUS ABOUT PUTTING THEIR TIME & MONEY INTO THIS PROJECT.
>
> 2) ENTREPRENEURS - PARTICULARLY RELATING TO R.E. DEVELOPMENT; IE
> Realtors, Developers, Builders, Investors, Architects, Engineers, Bldg
> Supply Companies, etc.
>
> 3) NON-ENTREPRENEURS, BUT WHO BELIEVE STRONGLY ENOUGH IN THE PROJECT TO
> INITIALLY 'INVEST' THEIR EXPERTISE, TIME & SKILLS INTO THE PROJECT - TO BE
> PAID LATER - OF COURSE.
>
> So, IF you 'fit' into any of the above categories - or maybe - into a
> category I've left out, please join us in the 'Great Adventure' of Changing
> the way we live on our beautiful planet.
>
> I'm looking forward to talking with each & every one of you.
>
> Thanks again for joining.
>
> Sincerely, Dan - Moderator DOMECITY egroup - domecity@mail.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:22:49 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM> wrote:
> > According to Bucky, Humanity's chance of being a
> success in Universe
> > is
> > dependent upon our ability to learn to modify our
> environment.  I
>
> Or, our ability to work with our environment.
> Remember, geodesics
> are also referred to as a natural structural system.
>
> Triangles are *nature's* stable shape...not
> something mankind
> came up with.
>
> > doubt
> > we can expect much help from those who share such
> a low opinion of
> > Humanity.
>
> Why?  There is a LOT to do...there's enough for
> everybody to do,
> and we do need detractors to help keep us honest.
> They provide
> a counter to our pie-in-the-sky views, and help us
> develop even
> better solutions in the long term.
>
>      -- Chuck Knight

I think your attitute is helpful, Chuck. I appreciate it.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:23:42 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         DL XX <dlxx00@MAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: LET'S BUILD A DOME CITY NOW!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You're right - no listing is showing up yet.

Here's the info to 'sign up'.

Addresses:
Post message: DOMECITY@egroups.com
Subscribe:  DOMECITY-subscribe@egroups.com
Unsubscribe:  DOMECITY-unsubscribe@egroups.com
List owner:  DOMECITY-owner@egroups.com
URL to this page: http://www.egroups.com/group/DOMECITY

Thanks for your interest. Donald


------Original Message------
From: Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Sent: October 5, 2000 7:33:20 AM GMT
Subject: Re: LET'S BUILD A DOME CITY NOW!


So where do you go to sign up for this thing? There is no listing
for DOMECITY at http://egroups.com that I could find.  -Dexter


> From: DL XX
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 17:24
>
> This message is posted at a new egroup DOMECITY.
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for joining our DOMECITY egroup.
>
> I've been working for well over 20 years now to develop a Complete
> Eco-Healthy Sustainable Self-Sufficient City System, & I believe I've 'got
> it together' now.
>
> This egroup is for the 'core Development people' who are:
>
> 1) VERY SERIOUS ABOUT PUTTING THEIR TIME & MONEY INTO THIS PROJECT.
>
> 2) ENTREPRENEURS - PARTICULARLY RELATING TO R.E. DEVELOPMENT; IE
> Realtors, Developers, Builders, Investors, Architects, Engineers, Bldg
> Supply Companies, etc.
>
> 3) NON-ENTREPRENEURS, BUT WHO BELIEVE STRONGLY ENOUGH IN THE PROJECT TO
> INITIALLY 'INVEST' THEIR EXPERTISE, TIME & SKILLS INTO THE PROJECT - TO BE
> PAID LATER - OF COURSE.
>
> So, IF you 'fit' into any of the above categories - or maybe - into a
> category I've left out, please join us in the 'Great Adventure' of
Changing
> the way we live on our beautiful planet.
>
> I'm looking forward to talking with each & every one of you.
>
> Thanks again for joining.
>
> Sincerely, Dan - Moderator DOMECITY egroup - domecity@mail.com
>


........................................................
iWon.com       http://www.iwon.com     why wouldn't you?
........................................................
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:15:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Review (+) of Urner's cw at O'Reilly website
Comments: cc: synergeo@egroups.com
In-Reply-To:  <20001004.224830.308.0.c.knight@juno.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Just out yesterday: a fairly positive review of my curriculum writing
by Stephen Figgins, O'Reilly Network's Python DevCenter bureau chief.

  http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/python/2000/10/04/pythonnews.html

Figgins writes:

  The world of textbooks and the educational system in general is
  too excruciatingly slow, though. Urner has taken his curriculum
  to the web with the Oregon Curriculum Network, a web publishing
  platform and model for other curriculum developers.

This is a positive development for getting more Bucky-informed
writings out to homeschoolers and others, since (quoting myself
now):

  This curriculum was among the first to take significant advantage
  of R. Buckminster Fuller's philosophical explorations to advance
  its goals.[1]

Kirby

[1] http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/numeracy3.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:53:40 -0700
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Foam in the 21st Century
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Graphitic foam could be one of the super materials of the 21st
century, and it's 90 per cent air. The
new foam has a "unique combination of properties" which could
"save millions of dollars". It could
replace several different types of material, including glass
fiber and aluminum honeycomb, in planes
and spacecraft. It has three times the stiffness of aluminum
honeycomb. Unlike fibre-based
composites and honeycombs, which are strong in only two
dimensions, the graphitic foam retains its
properties in three dimensions. These properties mean it can
perform several functions at once. In a
space shuttle, it could carry heat and electrical charge from one
part of the structure to another, and
provide mechanical strength.
http://www.newscientist.com/nl/1007/space.html

Also, this quote came from a one paragraph article in a previous
issue of Wired magazine which mentioned foamed aluminum, and
provided this link: http://www.MaterialConnexion.com
(How do they do that opening page like that, and my browser has
Java and image loading turned off? That is really smooth!)

'Light-as-air, stronger-than-steel materials are just beginning
to shape our world.' -- Jessie Scanlon, Wired magazine, Feb. 2000
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:27:45 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Moller's Skycar
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02EBF.4832E4A0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02EBF.4832E4A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"Moller International was founded in 1983 to design, develop, manufacture
and market personal vertical takeoff and landing aircraft (VTOL). The
company has developed and integrated the disparate technologies required for
small, powered-lift VTOL aircraft. These include electronic stabilization
and control systems, efficient ducted fan designs, thrust vectoring
mechanisms and aerodynamically stable composite airframe structures. The
single most significant spin-off technology is the Rotapower engine, a
Wankel rotary engine. This engine is now produced and marketed by Freedom
Motors.

Our purpose is to develop and put into use personal transport vehicles that
are as safe, efficient, affordable and easy-to-use as automobiles. These
would not be constrained by existing transportation networks, and will
provide quick and convenient transport to any destination better than any
alternative.

This vehicle should have a low environmental impact in terms of noise,
emissions, and fuel consumption. Total costs of ownership over the life of
the vehicle, including purchase price, operating costs and infrastructure
costs should be reasonably low. This would be competing with such
alternatives as personal or mass transport vehicles, general aviation,
commercial air travel, and rail or motor vehicles.

We believe the Volantor is this vehicle."

Moller International
Davis, CA, USA

 http://www.moller.com/skycar/

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02EBF.4832E4A0
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="Moller's Skycar.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Moller's Skycar.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.moller.com/skycar/

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.moller.com/skycar/
Modified=40052600F92EC00153

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02EBF.4832E4A0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:07:55 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         ANTIGEN_IMAIL3 <ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:      Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Antigen for Exchange found Moller's Skycar.url matching =<in>*.URL file
filter.
The file is currently Deleted.  The message, "     Moller's Skycar", was
sent from         Joe S Moore  and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at ORGANIZATION/PICATINNY/IMAIL3.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:05:52 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a test.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com

Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:12:52 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I don't know what's going on.  It seems that, all of a sudden, I'm getting
error messages if there's an attachment to the email.  Never heard of
"Antigen for Exchange" before. Will explore more AFTER lunch.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:05 PM
Subject: Test


> This is a test.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:26:30 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I've been receiving these also.  I asked my pc support person and they
didn't know what it was either.  I've just been deleting them.

Steve O

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe S Moore [mailto:joemoore@CRUZIO.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 3:13 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: Test
>
>
> I don't know what's going on.  It seems that, all of a
> sudden, I'm getting
> error messages if there's an attachment to the email.  Never heard of
> "Antigen for Exchange" before. Will explore more AFTER lunch.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:05 PM
> Subject: Test
>
>
> > This is a test.
> >
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> >
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:45:10 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
In-Reply-To:  <006b01c02f08$a523bb00$b708fbcf@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:12 PM 10/05/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I don't know what's going on.  It seems that, all of a sudden, I'm getting
>error messages if there's an attachment to the email.  Never heard of
>"Antigen for Exchange" before. Will explore more AFTER lunch.

I believe that's an anti-virus program, probably at the GEODESIC site,
notifying us that it's found something in your attachment.  Do you
run anti-virus software on your end?  Sounds like you've contracted
something.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:51:06 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I believed that the message was being generated from the GEODESIC site.  But
I've been receiving the messages and I have not sent any attachements.  The
messages also don't seem to correspond to any of the times I've posted, but
that is just a casual observation.

Steve O

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirby Urner [mailto:pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 3:45 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: Test
>
>
> At 01:12 PM 10/05/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> >I don't know what's going on.  It seems that, all of a
> sudden, I'm getting
> >error messages if there's an attachment to the email.  Never heard of
> >"Antigen for Exchange" before. Will explore more AFTER lunch.
>
> I believe that's an anti-virus program, probably at the GEODESIC site,
> notifying us that it's found something in your attachment.  Do you
> run anti-virus software on your end?  Sounds like you've contracted
> something.
>
> Kirby
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:08:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] A virus consuming the planet

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   05-OCT-2000  7:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 of course, I'm referring to Lyndon Hermeyle LaRouche, Jr. --
 the case was brought by him against the then-chair
 of the DNC in 1996, for refusing to seat our delegates,
 which was a violation of the VRA of'65
 (they had to change their rules, to do so, but
 they didn't submit them to the federal judge;
 that is the whole import of the Act, as far as I know).
    (I don't know what you mean, that gives you problems
 with my syntax; the use of punctuation is merely
 to connote the normal speaking pauses of the writer;
 dig ?-)
    Gore's (DNC's) lawyer argued that the Act is unconstitutional,
 that the DNC is merely a private party, and can have no oversight
 by the Federal government.  the 3 judges agreed with this,
 in December, and the Supreme Court refused the appeal,
 on March 27th.  as I said,
 this is, now, the Law of the Land, and the Creed
 of the "Democratic" (and "Republican," by default) parties, although
 it (and that) are not saying a word about it --
 with total complicity by Hollinger Corp. et al.
    does that constitute a "media post-industrial complex," or is it just
 my personal problem?

 thus quoth:
  I suppose others have told you this already, but your obtuse use of
  language makes your email messages difficult to read.  Please use
  plain speech, my friend!  And endless string of comma-separated
  noun and verb phrases may sound great in an important literary
  work, but it just slows the rest of us down to decode it.

  So explain the Voting Rights Act and its supposed "nullification" to me.
  When you use "Lyn" in your email, are you referring to Lyndon LaRouche?
  If so, please be more explicit.  Not everyone knows all of your code
  words and cute references.  And what does LaRouche have to do with this
  stuff anyway?

 --Gush!
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:15:35 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
In-Reply-To:  <313B94EDA224D11194680001FA7EC2A809BDD4F1@nts1.triplecrowns
              vc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:51 PM 10/05/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>I believed that the message was being generated from the GEODESIC site.  But
>I've been receiving the messages and I have not sent any attachements.  The
>messages also don't seem to correspond to any of the times I've posted, but
>that is just a casual observation.
>
>Steve O

My theory is the messages are in response to Joe's attachments only --
they have nothing to do with your posts.  The server catches something
and replies to the list.  We all get a copy.  Probably Joe needs to
run some anti-virus software against his own hard disk, otherwise
the situation will likely persist.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:20:07 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] A virus consuming the planet
In-Reply-To:  <200010051408.e95E8RB19997@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>  I suppose others have told you this already, but your obtuse use of
>  language makes your email messages difficult to read.

Yes, he's been told that over and over.

>    (I don't know what you mean, that gives you problems
> with my syntax; the use of punctuation is merely

...but it does no good.

Hopeless case, don't even bother.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:37:32 -0700
Reply-To:     bward@metro.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Bruce Ward <bward@METRO.NET>
Organization: chhhyehh...right...
Subject:      Re: A virus consuming the planet
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

DL XX wrote:

> You can tell when someone has a severe inferiority complex

Really??   you can tell when they've got rilly, rilly thin skin, too, y'know...

> - they get a 'charge' out of attacking people publicly

I see.  What kind of 'charge' are you getting out of this?

> - like a school bully.

Never had any problems with bullies.  Guess I didn't have the personality /
attitude that attracts them.

> Check out the response to my comment below.

Oh! Yes! Let's do!

> Quoting (more or less) Einstein:

Mostly less.   And it's paraphrasing, actually.Quoting is word for word,
verified, credited, properly punctuated and spelled.

> Great Spirits focus on ideas,
>
> Medicore minds focus on things,
>
> & inferior minds focus on people (including attacking them)

I find it fascinating that of all of Mr. Einstein's thoughts worth quoting, you
pick, and then mangle, this one.I'm sure he would appreciate having words put
in his mouth.  Perhaps you can enlighten us regarding
'Medicore minds'.

Your flippant dismissal of Bucky Fuller in a previous post, and your
misappropriation of Einstein, as well as your laziness toward even getting the
quote right, let alone your spelling, leave me with the impression that you
have no knowledge of, nor respect for, either Fuller or Einstein.  (the last
statement was NOT an attack. I am merely trying to communicate the impression I
get from your posts.)


And I still submit that  I don't think that humans who see themselves as viri,
or bacteria, or as some kind of distasteful disease on an otherwise perfect
Earth, will be able to contribute much help toward Humanity's growth into
Universe.

>
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Bruce Ward <bward@metro.net>
> To: DL XX <dlxx00@mail.com>
> Sent: October 5, 2000 2:51:51 AM GMT
> Subject: Re: A virus consuming the planet
>
> DL XX wrote:
>
> > Actually, it should be: ".... dependent upon our ability to LEARN to BE IN
> > HARMONY with our environment."
>
> Ah.  Another master of "should be..."
>
> > I don't know exactly what Bucky said - but this is what I say.
>
> But the List is for discussion of the Work of R. Buckminster Fuller.  Going
> by the published record, he seems to have been able to communicate his
> comprehension of the problem(s) somewhat more thoroughly and concisely than
> you have.
>
> > The Earth is in perfect balance & harmony - humanity is not.
>
> This is utter garbage.  Humanity is part of Earth.  If Humanity is "not in
> balance", then neither is Earth."Perfect" is thinkable in metaphysical
> conceptuality, but not demonstrable in physical reality.  In balance
> relative
> to what?  And with what are we harmonizing?  Why am I asking You?
>
> You REALLY SHOULD take the time to LEARN "exactly what Bucky said".
>
> Sincere ignorance is the most dangerous kind.
> A mind that is always open is like a wastebasket.  People will throw trash in
> it.
>
>
> > Donald
> >
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: Bruce Ward <bward@metro.net>
> > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> > Sent: October 5, 2000 12:17:29 AM GMT
> > Subject: Re: A virus consuming the planet
> >
> > According to Bucky, Humanity's chance of being a success in Universe is
> > dependent upon our ability to learn to modify our environment.  I doubt
> > we can expect much help from those who share such a low opinion of
> > Humanity.
> >
> > John Belt wrote:
> >
> > >         Okay Dexter, You know we can't talk about politics
> > > on this list group:-j  I'm not going to debate this one either.
> > >
> > >         jb
> > >
> > > On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Dexter Graphic wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Are we nothing more than the equivalent of a virus consuming
> > > > > this planet?
> > > >
> > > > Viruses can't reproduce without a host. Humans are more like a
> > > > bacteria that reproduces itself until all available resources
> > > > are used up.
> > > >
> >
> > ........................................................
> > iWon.com       http://www.iwon.com     why wouldn't you?
> > ........................................................
>
> ........................................................
> iWon.com       http://www.iwon.com     why wouldn't you?
> ........................................................
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:44:45 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Virus?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am running:

Operating System: Windows Me
Email s/w: Outlook Express v5.50.4133.2400
Anti-Virus s/w: Norton 2000 v6.0 with latest updates

I just scanned my entire hard drive & it's clean!

I think it has something to do with any attachments using MS Outlook.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:04:39 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Virus?
In-Reply-To:  <000e01c02f3f$63d01400$9608fbcf@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:44 PM 10/05/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I am running:
>
>Operating System: Windows Me
>Email s/w: Outlook Express v5.50.4133.2400
>Anti-Virus s/w: Norton 2000 v6.0 with latest updates
>
>I just scanned my entire hard drive & it's clean!

Dunno Joe.

In any case, it's usually not necessary to append attachments to
Geodesic.  URLs are text.  Pictures can go to a web page.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:57:49 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      Bucky play returning to San Francisco - October 13
Comments: To: domesteading@bootstrap.sculptors.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The play "The History (And Mystery) of the Universe)" will be returning to San
Francisco starting October 13. It was held over for 3 weeks from its summer
run, and is now in a new (and probably larger) theater. I saw the show twice,
and highly recommend it. (I'm actually considering seeing it again!)

My initial review of it is online here:
http://reality.sculptors.com/~hyprmail/domesteading/1504.html

Also, I've been working on expanding the site a bit, and the most recent
addition is an expanded main page, and links to translate the site into 26
other languages. (!) It's actually a cool program called "Intertran", put out
by a group called "Translation Experts". It will allow people from other
countries to at least dig into part of the site, and if they find it useful,
they can subscribe to the service to get larger amounts translated. They have
a limit as to how much they'll translate in a day, but it's fairly generous.

Back from 2 weeks on the east coast, visiting my family and attending my
sister's wedding. That was fun, and while there, I got to speak to two of John
Belt's design classes at SUNY Oswego, and discuss some of the things we're
working on in the Reality Sculptors Project. Hopefully, we'll be seeing some
of them signing up on the various lists. (They may be here already! :-)  )



Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
        Have you made (or are you about to make) a life-changing move?
   Got a story to tell or advice to share with others about to do the same?
       Join the UpSpin Project: http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html
           ---------------------------------------------------------
Microsoft: when do you want to reformat your C drive today?
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:30:12 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
In-Reply-To:  Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:51:06 CDT."
              <313B94EDA224D11194680001FA7EC2A809BDD4F1@nts1.triplecrownsvc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Very likely it's *not* the server that runs GEODESIC. Unless they've
drastically changed things, that's a Unix machine, and certainly not running
Microsoft Exchange. (That's where I'm assuming "Antigen for Exchange" is
coming from.) I've been hacking through lots of back posts, and deleted those
messages already. If you get another one, Joe, please mail it to me, along
with the full headers.

I suspect that it's coming from a user's site out there, someplace. Someone
who's subscribed to the list, and their server is running Exchange and
scanning attachments. It then replies to the note, which goes back to the
list, which goes out to everyone...

It's almost like when one of those telemarketing phone-dialing machines calls
up and gets your answering machine. And your machine is waiting for their
machine to say something, and their machine is waiting to hear a voice, to
know whether to pass it on to a human, or dial another number...

Sometimes you gotta wonder about out automated society... ;^)



Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
    Check out the Reality Sculptors Project: http://reality.sculptors.com/
           ---------------------------------------------------------
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare.  Now, thanks to
the Internet, we know this is not true.    --Robert Wilensky, ILP 1996


> I believed that the message was being generated from the GEODESIC site.  But
> I've been receiving the messages and I have not sent any attachements.  The
> messages also don't seem to correspond to any of the times I've posted, but
> that is just a casual observation.
>
> Steve O
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kirby Urner [mailto:pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 3:45 PM
> > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Test
> >
> >
> > At 01:12 PM 10/05/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> > >I don't know what's going on.  It seems that, all of a
> > sudden, I'm getting
> > >error messages if there's an attachment to the email.  Never heard of
> > >"Antigen for Exchange" before. Will explore more AFTER lunch.
> >
> > I believe that's an anti-virus program, probably at the GEODESIC site,
> > notifying us that it's found something in your attachment.  Do you
> > run anti-virus software on your end?  Sounds like you've contracted
> > something.
> >
> > Kirby
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:35:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      Re: What if
In-Reply-To:  Your message of "Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:00:02 PDT."
              <20000913220002.14796.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> Say a structure design was discovered, that was close
> to what Bucky foresaw, that was mass-producible,
> ultra-low-cost, that housed two billion people in a
> new way.  What would the effect be to our world?
> Would squatter villages start popping up? Would people
> leave their morgaged homes? Would renters stop
> renting? Would people begin to question long-held
> beliefs about who was wealthy and who was not?  Would
> the rat race slow? And what would the best moves be in
> that new world?
>
        Sounds rather like the Corrulite plastic emergency-shelter dome we
were working on 2 years ago at my house. That's the only time I've actually
*met* Joe Moore, despite the fact that he lives only about 10-15 miles from
me. Joe, I think we're due for another get-together. Maybe we should plan
Corrulite Party #2 ? :-)

        Pictures of the event are here. And I've still never made a proper
page out of these. Does anyone want to help out with that?
http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/Gifs/Domes/party/



Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
          We're looking for folks with sharp minds and bright ideas.
                         http://reality.sculptors.com/
           ---------------------------------------------------------
             "Kick your own ass. Live up to your true potential."
                                                -World Entertainment War
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:35:55 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
In-Reply-To:  <200010062130.OAA20457@bootstrap.sculptors.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:30 PM 10/06/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Very likely it's *not* the server that runs GEODESIC.

Yeah, guess you're right.  Return address is:
ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL -- I shoulda been more
observant.

Since you're our competent listowner, I'll butt out
of this thread.  Thanks for doing a good job.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:43:06 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Autonomous House
Comments: cc: domesteading@bootstrap.sculptors.com
In-Reply-To:  Your message of "Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:01:24 PDT."
              <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOGEHBDKAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

(CC'd to the Domesteading list)

> > >Patrick Salsbury's "Autonomous House" designs:
> > >
> > > http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/House/
> > >
> > >Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> >
> > Great view!  Thanks Patrick -- and Joe for the link!
> >
> > Kirby
>
> I like the site too. The best part for me, was the idea of "open source"
> housing design so that anyone in the world can make parts that will fit
> interchangeably. This open architecture is what makes IBM PC clones so
> cheap and popular (as opposed to a proprietary system like Macintosh
> which costs 1.5 to 2 times as much and runs only a tiny fraction of the
> software that's available for the PC.) If automobiles were manufactured
> along the same open architecture standards as computer systems we would
> have amazingly cheap and efficient cars (easily reconfigurable between
> running on gasoline, alcohol, hydrogen, or electricity depending on
> which motor module you dropped in; and, with the convince of being able
> to buy standardized replacement parts at any Wal-Mart or junk yard.)
> A world-around open source housing system could work the same way. The
> suggestion that economic pressures will drive global competition for the
> most efficient solutions sounds very promising--all of humanity working
> together to turn out a low-cost housing product which meets the demands
> of planetary life support for all humans beings! What an exciting plan.
>
> Dexter Graphic

        Thanks, Kirby & Dexter! That's precisely the model I was thinking
of (PC's and
the inter-swappable cards and drives, etc. If we can develop manufacturing
specifications and standards, as well as quality standards for safety in
engineering, we should be able to then accommodate manufacturers from all over
the world, whatever their production capacity, and integrate all those parts
together into coherent global housing solutions.
        Let's make it happen. :-)




Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
       Like geodesic domes? See http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html
           ---------------------------------------------------------
"The Sony Vaio machines have replaced the impersonal and unhelpful
Microsoft error messages with their own Japanese haiku poetry.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Chaos reigns within.
Reflect, repent, and reboot.
Order shall return.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:49:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
In-Reply-To:  Your message of "Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:35:55 PDT."
              <3.0.3.32.20001006143555.00a8c100@pop.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> At 02:30 PM 10/06/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> >Very likely it's *not* the server that runs GEODESIC.
>
> Yeah, guess you're right.  Return address is:
> ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL -- I shoulda been more
> observant.
>
> Since you're our competent listowner, I'll butt out
> of this thread.  Thanks for doing a good job.
>
> Kirby
>
        Sure thing, although often I feel like the "absentee landlord". :-)

        I'm certainly happy to have seen the list grow to such a boisterous
level, and it's self-supporting now with lots of great posts from talented and
interested folks. (Compare and contrast with 1988-89, when I felt like a lone
Bucky-freak, trying to post lots of things to keep the list alive with some
content flow, and we only had a couple of dozen folks on it. :-)  )

        Keep up the great work, and I'll just try to keep up! :-)



Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
  Comprehensive, Anticipatory, Design Science: http://reality.sculptors.com/
           ---------------------------------------------------------
    "To those devoid of imagination, a blank place on the map is a useless
          waste; to others, the most valuable part." -- Aldo Leopold
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:14:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         c a l i b a n <caliban@SHARON.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bucky play returning to San Francisco - October 13
Comments: To: domesteading@sculptors.com
Comments: cc: domesteading@bootstrap.sculptors.com
In-Reply-To:  <200010062057.NAA19976@bootstrap.sculptors.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        my gf and i are seeing the play here in sf on 10/20.

On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Patrick Salsbury wrote:

]The play "The History (And Mystery) of the Universe)" will be returning to San
]Francisco starting October 13. It was held over for 3 weeks from its summer
]run, and is now in a new (and probably larger) theater. I saw the show twice,
]and highly recommend it. (I'm actually considering seeing it again!)
]
]My initial review of it is online here:
]http://reality.sculptors.com/~hyprmail/domesteading/1504.html
]
]Also, I've been working on expanding the site a bit, and the most recent
]addition is an expanded main page, and links to translate the site into 26
]other languages. (!) It's actually a cool program called "Intertran", put out
]by a group called "Translation Experts". It will allow people from other
]countries to at least dig into part of the site, and if they find it useful,
]they can subscribe to the service to get larger amounts translated. They have
]a limit as to how much they'll translate in a day, but it's fairly generous.
]
]Back from 2 weeks on the east coast, visiting my family and attending my
]sister's wedding. That was fun, and while there, I got to speak to two of John
]Belt's design classes at SUNY Oswego, and discuss some of the things we're
]working on in the Reality Sculptors Project. Hopefully, we'll be seeing some
]of them signing up on the various lists. (They may be here already! :-)  )
]
]
]
]Pat
]          ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
]        Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
]       Have you made (or are you about to make) a life-changing move?
]   Got a story to tell or advice to share with others about to do the same?
]       Join the UpSpin Project: http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html
]          ---------------------------------------------------------
]Microsoft: when do you want to reformat your C drive today?
]
]

--
 rocky mullin - chaotic good
 http://caliban.sf.ca.us/
 two strokes are faster than four!
 this message was composed using the vi editor.

 "i'm not very sharp- i just get things done"  -- steve lerner
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:22:37 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re Test
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The Antigen thing popping up around here is a military antivirus =
program?=20

http://www.pica.army.mil/Picatinny/

A microsoft program on a military server? That's gotta be the 'most'  =
'bestest'  example of the oxymoron "Military Intelligents"=20

Mark

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Antigen thing popping up =
around&nbsp;here is a=20
military antivirus program? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.pica.army.mil/Picatinny/">http://www.pica.army.mil/Pic=
atinny/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A microsoft program on a military =
server? That's=20
gotta be the 'most'&nbsp; 'bestest'  example of the oxymoron "Military=20
Intelligents" </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C02FBA.05D15000--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 01:10:06 +0100
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      "Automobiles by Architects"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello,

Just received this notification from Design Architecture News
http://www.designarchitecture.com


-> Book Review: Back to the drawing board: "Automobiles by Architects" -
Norman Foster, Le Corbusier, Buckminster Fuller, etc.- This is London

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/results.html?in_text=architecture,+arc
hitect,+design&in_button=Go

It is unfortunately a dim-witted review, but includes a picture of the
Dymaxion Car. No-one living in London would expect coherence from the
Evening Standard, but at least they mention the exhibition at the Design
Museum.

Regards,

Paul Taylor.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:11:13 -0700
Reply-To:     bward@metro.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Bruce Ward <bward@METRO.NET>
Organization: chhhyehh...right...
Subject:      Re: Off Topic (sorta), was: Test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Patrick Salsbury wrote:


>We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
>will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare.  Now, thanks to
>the Internet, we know this is not true.    --Robert Wilensky, ILP 1996

What a Great quote!  Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:36:05 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Test 2
Comments: To: _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>,
          _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02FD5.0CF50E60"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02FD5.0CF50E60
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
        boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C02FD5.0CF50E60"


------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C02FD5.0CF50E60
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Test 2 using MS Outlook Express in HTML format with an attachment.

 http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffff00>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D4>Test 2 using MS =
Outlook Express in=20
HTML format with an attachment.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02FD5.0CF50E60
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        name="Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute-HOME.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute-HOME.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Modified=E09AB7440F30C00175

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02FD5.0CF50E60--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:49:38 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         ANTIGEN_IMAIL3 <ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:      Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Antigen for Exchange found Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute-HOME.url
matching =<in>*.URL file filter.
The file is currently Deleted.  The message, "     Test 2", was
sent from         Joe S Moore  and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at ORGANIZATION/PICATINNY/IMAIL3.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:01:41 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: What if
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Patrick- I agree there are connection to what I'm
talking about and your project two years ago. There
are some differences, like one has triangles.
Dick

--- Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM> wrote:
> > Say a structure design was discovered, that was
> close
> > to what Bucky foresaw, that was mass-producible,
> > ultra-low-cost, that housed two billion people in
> a
> > new way.  What would the effect be to our world?
> > Would squatter villages start popping up? Would
> people
> > leave their morgaged homes? Would renters stop
> > renting? Would people begin to question long-held
> > beliefs about who was wealthy and who was not?
> Would
> > the rat race slow? And what would the best moves
> be in
> > that new world?
> >
>         Sounds rather like the Corrulite plastic
> emergency-shelter dome we
> were working on 2 years ago at my house. That's the
> only time I've actually
> *met* Joe Moore, despite the fact that he lives only
> about 10-15 miles from
> me. Joe, I think we're due for another get-together.
> Maybe we should plan
> Corrulite Party #2 ? :-)

How 'bout the easay coast?
>
>         Pictures of the event are here. And I've
> still never made a proper
> page out of these. Does anyone want to help out with
> that?
>
http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/Gifs/Domes/party/
>
>
>
> Pat
>            ___________________Think For
> Yourself____________________
>          Patrick G. Salsbury -
> http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
>           We're looking for folks with sharp minds
> and bright ideas.
>
> http://reality.sculptors.com/
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
>              "Kick your own ass. Live up to your
> true potential."
>
> -World Entertainment War


=====
dick_fischbeck@yahoo.comHubdome,Patent-pending pending.There are no bad kids!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:05:07 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

No poor me.

--- Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM> wrote:
> > At 02:30 PM 10/06/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> > >Very likely it's *not* the server that runs
> GEODESIC.
> >
> > Yeah, guess you're right.  Return address is:
> > ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL -- I shoulda been
> more
> > observant.
> >
> > Since you're our competent listowner, I'll butt
> out
> > of this thread.  Thanks for doing a good job.
> >
> > Kirby
> >
>         Sure thing, although often I feel like the
> "absentee landlord". :-)
>
>         I'm certainly happy to have seen the list
> grow to such a boisterous
> level, and it's self-supporting now with lots of
> great posts from talented and
> interested folks. (Compare and contrast with
> 1988-89, when I felt like a lone
> Bucky-freak, trying to post lots of things to keep
> the list alive with some
> content flow, and we only had a couple of dozen
> folks on it. :-)  )
>
>         Keep up the great work, and I'll just try to
> keep up! :-)
>
>
>
> Pat
>            ___________________Think For
> Yourself____________________
>          Patrick G. Salsbury -
> http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
>   Comprehensive, Anticipatory, Design Science:
> http://reality.sculptors.com/
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
>     "To those devoid of imagination, a blank place
> on the map is a useless
>           waste; to others, the most valuable part."
> -- Aldo Leopold


=====
dick_fischbeck@yahoo.comHubdome,Patent-pending pending.There are no bad kids!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:08:52 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Joe- You still must have something!!!!!;>)
--- ANTIGEN_IMAIL3 <ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
wrote:
> Antigen for Exchange found Buckminster Fuller
> Virtual Institute-HOME.url
> matching =<in>*.URL file filter.
> The file is currently Deleted.  The message, "
> Test 2", was
> sent from         Joe S Moore  and was discovered in
> IMC Queues\Inbound
> located at ORGANIZATION/PICATINNY/IMAIL3.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:17:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] A virus consuming the planet
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Brian- I am interested in the connection that you have
between Bucky and Lyndon. For real.

Dick


---
 Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 11:05:49 +0200
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@MOEBIUS.INKA.DE>
Subject:      Re: Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
In-Reply-To:  <6D3191D3671FD411867100D0B746BADE0108B942@imail3.pica.army.mil>;
              from ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL on Fri, Oct 06,
              2000 at 11:49:38PM -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:49:38PM -0400, ANTIGEN_IMAIL3 wrote:
> Antigen for Exchange found Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute-HOME.url
> matching =<in>*.URL file filter.
> The file is currently Deleted.  The message, "     Test 2", was
> sent from         Joe S Moore  and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
> located at ORGANIZATION/PICATINNY/IMAIL3.

Say, Joe, why don't you reply to that address
<ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@PICA.ARMY.MIL>, and to its postmaster
<postmaster@pica.army.mil>, and perhaps to the postmaster's postmaster
<postmaster@army.mil> as well, and tell them that you'd prefer not to
have this program post to this mailing list.

After all, that's a computer program; it has no reason at all to post to
a mailing list that's intended for humans. And it's the postmaster's
responsibility if one of their programs runs amok and begins posting
messages to mailing lists.

--
Yours, Sebastian Kirsch <skirsch@moebius.inka.de>

Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 05:13:01 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Buckminster Fuller: An Anthology for the New Millennium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=4KKUJN6RBV&mscssid=&salesurl=Rbook.com/&isbn=0312266391

Buckminster Fuller: An Anthology for the New Millennium
Thomas T. Zung (Editor)

                             Format: Hardcover, 416pp.
                             ISBN: 0312266391
                             Publisher: St. Martin's Press, Inc.
                             Pub. Date: December  2000
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:22:14 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      World Time
MIME-Version: 1.0
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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Map showing what parts of the earth are presently sunlit or dark:

 http://www.eeph.com/~matthew/worldlive.html=20

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#000000>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" color=3D#ffffff><STRONG>Map showing =
what parts of=20
the earth are presently sunlit or dark:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT color=3D#ffffff size=3D4><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT><A =

href=3D"http://www.eeph.com/~matthew/worldlive.html"><STRONG><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D4>http://www.eeph.com/~matthew/worldlive.html</FONT></STRONG></A><=
STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D4>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D1><BR><FONT color=3D#ffffff =
size=3D2><STRONG>Joe=20
S Moore: </STRONG></FONT><A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><FONT=20
color=3D#ffffff =
size=3D2><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG></FONT></A><BR><FONT=20
color=3D#ffffff size=3D2><STRONG>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:=20
</STRONG></FONT><A href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</STRONG></FONT></A><BR>=
<FONT=20
color=3D#ffffff><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>=


------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03048.75E515A0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 05:16:03 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Off Topic (sorta), was: Test

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   07-OCT-2000  5:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 The Planet of the Shakespearean Secretaries?

 --Gush!
 http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 05:29:34 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] CA ballot

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   07-OCT-2000  5:29
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Prop.38 (Calif.):
 I've been suggesting to the local schoolboards (SM & LA) that
 we have to flank these turkies, by dumping "College Prep Math,"
 and the rest of the OBE junk, and installing *bel canto*
 as a basic music-curriculum for *all* students -- along
 with the rest of a "Claffical" curriculum (moo-ha-ha !-)

 Prop.36: sorry, but I read a couple of editorials, sugggesting that
 it would completely gut the dysincentives -- as opposed
 to addressing the real problem of mandatory sentencing;
 isn't Soros behind this one, as well?

 Prop.34: apparently, this is supposed to get rid of all
 of the campaign-finance stuff that is already on the books,
 substituting a weaker foundation; McCain's reversed himself,
 and no-longer supports it (of course,
 it's all a tremendously false front, for this cycle, in spite
 of the newly-required dysclosure of the 527 Cmtes.:
 Clinton's signature on the Fin.Services Modernization Act of'99
 has propelleda huge gusher of funny-money, quite inflationary,
 into the system !-)








 Gush!
 http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:39:13 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Eden Project
Comments: To: _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>,
          _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0305B.99627E60"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0305B.99627E60
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

BBC color video/audio of the Eden Project dome greenhouses, Cornwall, =
England:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/960000/video/_960925_eden_boettcher07_vi.ra=
m

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#00ff00>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">BBC color video/audio of the =
Eden=20
Project dome greenhouses, Cornwall, England:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/960000/video/_960925_eden_boettcher=
07_vi.ram"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New =
Roman">http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/960000/video/_960925_eden_boettcher0=
7_vi.ram</FONT></A></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D1><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Joe S =
Moore:=20
</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: </FONT><A =

href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New =
Roman">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></A><BR><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New =
Roman">&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0305B.99627E60--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 07:22:25 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] A virus consuming the planet

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   07-OCT-2000  7:22
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 hey, do you know what an ad hominem argument is?
    you may all line-up for the British method
 of using as little punctuation as is plausible, but
 that generally assumes that you know "common" useages,
 such eliding elipsis -- heh-heh -- which may not
 be as common as thou presumeth (viz ESLers.  in my regard,
 attempted deployment of Shakespeariac language,
 makes me, but mayhap not thee, into the category,
 English as a my Next Language!

 if you really can criticiize my usages, then
 you should be able to provide exemplars,
 that I may learn from this.  however, I think,
 you'll see that, aside from a couple of minor sillinesses
 that I picked-up from others online, since '86,
 there is very little that is not in the King's English
 (that is to say, the Shakespearean translaters
 of the Bible etc.) !!

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 14:41:47 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fw: Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
Comments: To: Joe S Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of "Fri, 06 Oct 2000 20:39:04 PDT."
              <008201c03010$24d7b420$4c0efbcf@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

(CC'd to GEODESIC)

> Pat,
>
> This is what I just got:
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ANTIGEN_IMAIL3" <ANTIGEN_IMAIL3@pica.army.mil>
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is where
                                                      it's happening...

> To: <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 8:49 PM
> Subject: Antigen found =<in>*.URL file
>
>
> > Antigen for Exchange found the restricted file, Buckminster Fuller Virtual
> > Institute-HOME.url, in a message you sent.
> > The file is currently Deleted.
> > The message, "     Test 2", was sent to
> > GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU.
> >
> > Explanation:
> > Anti-Virus software on the Picatinny Exchange Email system detected a
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yep. Same thing.

        That's not the GEODESIC listserv itself, merely an end node. You can
safely ignore these. It's basically saying that they've set up some sort of
filter, restricting the type of file that gets attached to your email, which
is basically just a URL, anyway. I think it's their problem, not yours.


> > restricted file attachment in a message you sent. Consequently, the file
> > attachment was removed from the message and stored in a quarantine area.
> >
> > Certain types of files are restricted because of their potential for
> > spreading dangerous computer viruses. However, most of the time these
> files
> > are safe. Sometimes they are needed for legitimate business purposes.
> >
> > The message recipient(s) have received similar notification which also
> > contains instructions for requesting the file's release from quarantine.
> >
>



Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
      Interested in Airships? See http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html
           ---------------------------------------------------------
  "All progress is based upon a universal innate desire on the part of every
             organism to live beyond its income." -- Samuel Butler
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 09:37:14 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] A virus consuming the planet

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   07-OCT-2000  9:37
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 In a statement released today, LaRouche's national spokeswoman, Debra
 Hanania-Freeman, said she was not surprised by the openly racist arguments
 made by the DNC attorneys. "We like to think of the Democratic Party as the
 party of FDR and John Kennedy. But, we have to face the fact that long
 before FDR, it was the party of the Confederacy and of slavery. And, as
 late as 1964, the world watched the as the Democratic National Committee
 refused to seat Fannie Lou Hamer and the Mississippi Freedom Democrats at a
 national convention. As we enter the hot phase of the Y2000 presidential
 campaign, Democrats are going to have to take a position. Are we going to
 let the Party be controlled by an openly racist DNC bureaucracy, the same
 crowd that is currently using strong-arm tactics to try to circumvent the
 entire nominating process, and shove Al Gore down our throats, or are we
 going to clean this crowd out?"

 Freeman noted that the DNC selected attorney John C. Keeney, Jr. to
 bolster their argument that the DNC was above the law, with citations from
 Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and William Rehnquist. She said that
 Scalia and Thomas have both questioned the constitutionality of the Voting
 Rights Act, and that Rehnquist has been accused of harassing minority
 voters in the state of Arizona in the early 1960's, by engaging in specific
 conduct the Voting Rights Act was enacted to stop. "John Keeney's father,
 Jack Keeney, is one of the most notorious and THE most senior member of the
 Department of Justice's permanent bureaucracy. Jack Keeney played a key
 role in the Department of Justice's unlawful targeting of Lyndon LaRouche,
 and is widely acknowledged to be one of the key enforcers of the DOJ's
 'Operation Fruehmenschen' - the overtly racist policy of targeting African
 American public and elected officials for investigation and prosecution.
 His son John is following in his father's footsteps," Freeman charged.

 "This is the gang that Al Gore has chosen to run his bid for the
 presidency and to deliver the Party's nomination to him by locking everyone
 else out." Freeman said that the LaRouche presidential campaign was denied
 the right to address the national convention of the Young Democrats of
 America that took place in Arkansas last week as a result of an obvious
 intervention by the DNC. She also pointed to a report in the Richmond Times
 Dispatch that Gore campaign representatives were trying to persuade
 Virginia Democrats to change the method by which they select delegates to
 the Democratic National Convention, in order to prevent the election of
 delegates pledged to LaRouche.

 "LaRouche supporters don't have to defend their 'qualifications' as bona
 fide Democrats. It was the LaRouche faction of the Party that took the
 point against Gingrich and his Contract on America, while Gore and his
 friends were busy 'triangulating.' And, it is well known that Americans to
 Save the Presidency was a LaRouche initiative. We not only defended
 President Clinton from attack by Ken Starr, but from those traitors inside
 the Party that were calling on the President to resign.

 http://www.larouchespeaks.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:53:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      More Audio Clips
Comments: To: _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>,
          _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C030A0.9CE30C40"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C030A0.9CE30C40
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

More audio clips at BFI:

http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_1.ram Allegra Fuller Fuller (RBF's Daughter), =
7-16-00, "Experiencing Experience--and My Father", San Francisco, CA

http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_2.ram  Jaime Snyder (RBF's Grandson), =
7-16-00, "Humanity's Option for Success", San Francisco, CA

http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_3.ram Allegra & Jaime Snyder, 7-16-00, "Q & =
A", San Francisco, CA

-------------------

http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_1.ram Jay Baldwin (Author) (Part 1), 7-30-00, =
"Bucky Fuller: Ideas for Today", San Francisco, CA

http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_2.ram Jay Baldwin (Part 2), 7-30-00, "Bucky =
Fuller: Ideas for Today", San Francisco, CA

http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_3.ram Jay Baldwin, 7-30-00, "Q & A", San =
Francisco, CA

----------

http://www.bfi.org/DesSci4_1.ram Rich Muller (UC Berkeley Prof), 8-6-00, =
"Buckminsterfullerenes -Key to Dinosaurs, Computers, and Who Knows What =
Else?", San Francisco, CA

http://www.bfi.org/DesSci4_2.ram Rich Muller, 8-6-00, "Q & A", San =
Francisco, CA

---------

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">More audio clips at=20
BFI:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_1.ram"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_1.ram</STRONG></FONT><=
/A><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;Allegra Fuller Fuller (RBF's Daughter), =
7-16-00,=20
"Experiencing Experience--and My Father", San Francisco,=20
CA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_2.ram"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_2.ram</STRONG></FONT><=
/A><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> &nbsp;Jaime Snyder (RBF's Grandson), 7-16-00,=20
"Humanity&#8217;s Option for Success", San Francisco, =
CA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_3.ram"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>http://www.bfi.org/DesSci1_3.ram</STRONG></FONT><=
/A><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;Allegra &amp; Jaime Snyder, 7-16-00, "Q =
&amp; A",=20
San Francisco, CA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">-------------------</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_1.ram"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_1.ram</STRONG></FONT><=
/A><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"> Jay Baldwin (Author) (Part 1), 7-30-00, =
&#8220;Bucky Fuller:=20
Ideas for Today&#8221;, San Francisco, CA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_2.ram"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_2.ram</STRONG></FONT><=
/A><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;Jay Baldwin (Part 2), 7-30-00, =
&#8220;Bucky Fuller: Ideas=20
for Today&#8221;, San Francisco, CA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_3.ram"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>http://www.bfi.org/DesSci3_3.ram</STRONG></FONT><=
/A><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;Jay Baldwin, 7-30-00, "Q &amp; A", San =
Francisco,=20
CA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman">----------</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/DesSci4_1.ram"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>http://www.bfi.org/DesSci4_1.ram</STRONG></FONT><=
/A><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;Rich Muller (UC Berkeley Prof), 8-6-00,=20
"Buckminsterfullerenes -Key to Dinosaurs, Computers, and Who Knows What =
Else?",=20
San Francisco, CA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bfi.org/DesSci4_2.ram"><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000>http://www.bfi.org/DesSci4_2.ram</FONT></STRONG></A><STRO=
NG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;Rich Muller, 8-6-00, "Q &amp; A", San =
Francisco,=20
CA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman">---------</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Joe S Moore: =
</FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG></FONT></A><BR><STRON=
G><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: =
</FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =

color=3D#000000><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</STRONG></FONT><=
/A><BR><STRONG><FONT=20
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Date:         Sun, 8 Oct 2000 09:18:45 -0700
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Jerusalem etc.
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The fusion of traditions around Jerusalem has a lot of people
thinking about "network nations" prototyped on corporations,
which have campus areas, headquarters, special parking garages,
farms, port facilities, but no representation as vast contiguous
land areas.  IBM, Avis and Hilton show up as dots of various
colors.  You can add edges between the dots to show them as
networks.  These are cultures, ethnicities, of a kind -- but
not on the model of a typical nation-state.

Because corporations are "network nations" (different topology),
they have no trouble sharing cities, often congregate in cities
with a reputation for hosting hubs, corporate centers, major
shrines (corner offices for various bosses, curriculum gods or
whatever).  London (actually a small section of Greater London,
guarded by a pillar to keep the King or Queen of England at
bay) is in this sense a "capital city" for many network nations
all at once.

In this sense, Jerusalem is already shared by many network
nations.  But because Israeli and Palestinian citizens (and
citizen-denizens of many other a passport-holder) need/want
to think in terms of contiguous land masses (very difficult
to do over there, given all the "Jewish Settlements" and
what not), there's no ability to reach agreement on Jerusalem
as capital to more than one network at a time.  It looks too
much like a "winner take all" competition among losers (there
can be no winners among peoples so blinded by ancient ways
of looking).

So any further bloodshed in the vicinity of Jerusalem needs
to be seen as additional "dying for lack of intelligence".
We will mix that blood with cement to seal the tomb of
statehood, a memorial to its many innocent victims (and
dupes).

As a matter of fact, that network nations (many of supra-
national by design) now comprise/embody the notion of
"sovereignty" in at least as palpable a sense as that
asserted by the erstwhile kings, queens, presidents, dictators
and so forth.  The CEOs have their own independent management
responsibilities -- which includes protecting the profitability
of their assets and not allowing the world to go to hell
when ancient feuding flares up among Balkanites, Semites,
Aryans, Persians, Mesopotamians, or any other brand of
post Cro-Magnon sapient.

Uncontrolled mayhem in the vicinity of Jerusalem is going to
seal the fate of nation-statehood on the old model as an essentially
failed and no-longer-tenable form of self-governance.  They'll
just have to get used to this lack of recognition and interest
at the UN I suppose (not my problem).  Profitability is too
important to sacrifice at alters set up by yesteryears curriculum
gods, long gone -- and their legacy rituals just don't have that
same spark any more.

You can cry at the Olympics when they raise your flag, but it's
obvious that the true sponsors of these games (somewhat lower
profile, but in your face on TV), are using those nation-state
banners to sell goods and services.  Our emotions are being
cleverly channeled, and that's transparent to anyone with an
only average level of media savvy.

We can still use the flags of course (Stars and Stripes forever),
but more as corporate logos for network nations.  They'll
still have to fight for a place in the sun though (no
guarentee of hearts and minds -- you've got to earn your
following anew, with each generation).  Destroying your own
capital, having hot wars over which cities are yours (when
you could have them all as company storefronts), marks your
top management as uncompetitive, inessential, dysfunctional.
You're not even a contender on the world stage if this is your
level of ops.

History will shrink the stature of all those who opted to
serve as brute force enforces of old-style nation-statehood,
when the opportunity was to answer a higher calling.  At
least such is my reading of God's will.  We shall see.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Oct 2000 13:07:14 -0400
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From:         rsb@DOCSJ.DE
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:14:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: LLOYD SIEDEN
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Sieden's brain is as empty on Fuller as George Bush Jr.'s pockets are
full of money.
Kirby Urner looks like a god v=compared to this idiot.

One thing though. I was a friend of John Belushi and he was not wired
etc. He was
killed by that street girl in his sleep. This is the truth.
When the wired author came into town no one would talk to him.
So he wrote a book that would sell, just like this Sieden idiot.
This guy is just a bad bucky dream for cash.
One thing that is good, is that Kirby did not meet bucky more than a
nano second but
he does see him in the truthful light of day at least. Urner's attacks
on bucky's family is the
only thing that I have cared about being a miss that and he knows
nothing of synergetics
primitive side until I came along. I would rather read bfi volunteers
than this sick sieden soup.
Sieden and Applewhite should get together with Jay and start a club
using other peoples material
and make money. Oh! yes Pete I bet is looking at the new mailing list
for donations from the play as
we write. Those donations should go to the BFI and the World Game not
GENI!
Geni ripped off the idea from Bucky's family and friends.
Now comes the real idiots like sieden, who just want to get in on the
money tree of bucky books.
The Bob Woodward of bucky like Belushi was taken for a legacy ride by an
idiot with a pen.
John Was not addicted to anything. He was killed by a street girl in his
sleep.
There were big stars with him that night at this place, right before it
happened. The girl killed him.
SHe was kicked out of Barney's Beanery one week before for passing out
in the John.
She then latched on to John and killed him. He had no idea that people
could be that wicked and
he was not looking for it in his life. He was not wired, and he was not
out of control. I met him with
his parents just a few days before this happened at the Roxy where I
worked. He was very healthy and
very sharp. She killed him and Woodward just flew in and a wrote what he
wanted to sell books just like this
idiot is with Bucky. This idea that bucky had a big ego and don't fall
for his power trips is a lot like linda Tripp
tapes, it is way off the mark of reality. If you are a idiot you will
see things through an idiots eyes.
Bucky was clean, pure, and did not put up with up. He loved and left and
went on his way. He was a true
great person, this is hard for many people to understand and he becomes
even to people along the way a con man,
a lone old man that was rude, etc. This is because of the flaw in the
persons life that made him treat them that way,
even if there is any truth in it, but I never saw that in him myself.
Honesty and truth is sometimes very rude.
So is rain.

Kirby Urner wrote:

> Re: http://www.lauralee.com/sieden.htm
>
> I realize it's not always easy to think on one's feet, which
> makes it easy to find flaws in radio interviews such as this
> one.
>
> I think Sieden's analysis that Bucky was expelled from Harvard
> because he was just partying all the time, and that drunken
> partying aptly characterizes his behavior through to the
> Chicago period, is misinformative.
>
> In a lot of ways, I prefer the Alden Hatch narrative regarding
> this period, which points out that Bucky was disappointed with
> Harvard because it didn't live up to his loftly, romantic ideals,
> plus he was not going to be invited into any of the clubs,
> meaning he was facing a kind of social ostracism that he felt
> reflected badly on his family (Princeton had clubs as well in
> the 1970s, when I attended, and a process called "bicker" for
> getting into them).  Taking the Zeigfield Follies ladies out
> for dinner in New York was certainly a precipitating event
> leading to his expulsion, but it wasn't symptomatic of a kind
> of "Animal House" persona.  Fuller was not a John Belushi type
> character.
>
> Alden makes this clear when he explains that flunking out
> would have been an unthinkable alternative.  Not letting
> the family down was a prime motivation.  Reputation was
> important to Fuller.  So he maintained a GPA higher than a
> gentlemans' C -- the cultural norm in those days. In other
> words, he was never in danger of flunking out. Plus he had
> deliberately chosen subjects that would prove challenging,
> and not a lot of math stuff, which he considered too easy.
> In other words, he had made a deliberate attempt to broaden
> himself in the liberal arts tradition, not just slide through
> -- even if it's also the case that he wasn't especially
> thrilled by these other subjects (or with those who professed
> to know about them).
>
> IMO, the Seiden's radio-broadcast account of events leading
> up to the 1927 crisis didn't sufficiently convey that Fuller
> had put a lot of energy into his job with Armour, and had
> basically resigned from the Navy to be with his family
> (Alexandra's health would not have permitted her and Anne
> to move to Manila, where he would have been stationed).  He
> was fun-loving but in family settings, as Alden makes clear,
> but not off partying and squandering the family's savings
> at every turn.  He and Anne were struggling responsibly to
> make ends meet -- but the deck was stacked against them (as
> it was and still is for many young families).  Then came the
> disaster with Kelly Truck -- a company slated for closing,
> unbeknownst to Bucky, who jumped aboard on invitation from
> a friend (Seiden does cover these details in his book --
> e.g. his last section in Chapter 4, pp 74-75 is basically
> a rewrite of the Hatch narrative -- as are many other
> sections of the book).
>
> My impression of Sieden's book is that in some ways it's like
> those student papers which only thinly disguise the sources
> with minor wording changes.  This is not an accusation of
> plagiarism as Sieden dutifully documents his sources.  Still,
> it reads in places like a hodge podge of other bios, but with
> a lot of interpolated content from 'Critical Path' and other
> sources (Fuller's lectures).  This is Sieden's first book and
> I don't think he's making any claims to being a great writer.
>
> Given Sieden did not know Bucky personally and is so reliant
> on second hand sources, I'm not sure he's in a position to
> pass the rather harsh judgements of character he comes up
> with e.g. on pages 67-68 (male chauvanism, little sensitivity
> to the feelings of others, especially women).  These "insights"
> into character flaws seem a bit too facile, coming from one who
> is either relying on other bios, or perhaps impressions from
> family members too close to the principal to offer unbiased
> analyses (he cites "interview with Jaime Snyder" re his paragraph
> mentioning the tombstone, but I don't know if that means Jaime
> is the source of this judgement that the epitaph is reflective
> of "Bucky's wishes exclusively" and that this is characteristic).
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that Sieden as biographer has not
> impressed me with any relevant credentials that would help
> authenticate his deeper level analysis of Fuller's character.
> I think he's entitled to his reading and analyses of course, but
> I'm not inclined to take his voice as especially authoritative
> or "on the money" when it comes to interpreting Fuller's inner
> psyche.  Nothing in Sieden's background would indicate to me
> that he's especially skilled as a psychologist or psychoanalyst.
>
> Judging from this radio interview, Sieden also seems to agree
> with Jaime that Fuller was not an especially gifted communicator
> (Jaime having once offered to be Fuller's spokesperson or public
> interpreter).  Although I would agree that much of what Fuller
> said or wrote is not always easy to understand, to imply that
> a former Charles Eliot Norton Professor of Poetry (Harvard, 1962),
> and a man who spoke around the world to large audiences for hours
> at a time, was not especially gifted as a communicator should
> be considered a controversial proposition at the very least,
> not an obvious truth by any means.
>
> Given Fuller's own clearly stated preference for being not
> understood over misunderstood (he'd rather you know you don't
> really know what he means vs. thinking you know where you
> really don't), it's not obvious to me that he needs a lot of
> help getting his ideas across.  In my own case, it was more
> a matter of Fuller's writings helping me to get clearer
> regarding some difficult concepts -- the writings themselves
> weren't ever the primary barrier.  Indeed, few writers have
> tackled such difficult content with such a commitment to
> remaining intelligible to laymen.  I don't consider Martin
> Heidegger, James Joyce, Gertrude Stein or Madame Blavatsky
> to be models of clarity when compared with Fuller-the-writer.
> True, it takes some getting used to Fuller-the-speaker,
> because of his accent, speech habits, and the sometimes
> poor quality of the recordings, but for the most part that
> hasn't been a huge problem for me either.
>
> I think Fuller's corpus deserves a lot more focus and scholarship,
> at the university level especially, and that works like the
> 'Synergetics Dictionary' by E.J. Applewhite help make clear what
> Fuller's self-consciously-evolved and remote-from-the-mainstream
> usage patterns were, around a large vocabulary of key terms
> (e.g. 'precession').  But the central premise should not be one
> of Fuller being a poor communicator (I'd argue that he was a
> very effective communicator), nor that we're in any desperate
> need of dime store psychology in order to learn "what made him
> tick," the premise here being that maybe Fuller is little studied
> or appreciated because he was close to crazy (Conway) or at
> minimum severely neurotic.
>
> I don't think either of these theses (Bucky as poor communicator,
> Bucky as borderline psycho) actually hold much water, on closer
> examination.  Given I think Sieden buys in to both of these
> premises to some degree, I have to respectfully demur when it
> comes to a lot of his subtext and background analyses.  I'd put
> a rather different spin on Fuller's bio (my version, quite short,
> is at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bio.html).
>
> Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:32:58 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: What if
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The structure is here now, I am on one. A boat.
One of these days all the games of the land will be to much and the
true dymaxion living machine will be accepted and discovered right under your
bridges.
The boat. This is the great way of the future.
Go to Lin and Larry Pardey and check them out. this is the future.
With wind, solar, etc. now for ever.

Patrick Salsbury wrote:

> > Say a structure design was discovered, that was close
> > to what Bucky foresaw, that was mass-producible,
> > ultra-low-cost, that housed two billion people in a
> > new way.  What would the effect be to our world?
> > Would squatter villages start popping up? Would people
> > leave their morgaged homes? Would renters stop
> > renting? Would people begin to question long-held
> > beliefs about who was wealthy and who was not?  Would
> > the rat race slow? And what would the best moves be in
> > that new world?
> >
>         Sounds rather like the Corrulite plastic emergency-shelter dome we
> were working on 2 years ago at my house. That's the only time I've actually
> *met* Joe Moore, despite the fact that he lives only about 10-15 miles from
> me. Joe, I think we're due for another get-together. Maybe we should plan
> Corrulite Party #2 ? :-)
>
>         Pictures of the event are here. And I've still never made a proper
> page out of these. Does anyone want to help out with that?
> http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/Gifs/Domes/party/
>
> Pat
>            ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
>          Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
>           We're looking for folks with sharp minds and bright ideas.
>                          http://reality.sculptors.com/
>            ---------------------------------------------------------
>              "Kick your own ass. Live up to your true potential."
>                                                 -World Entertainment War

float for your self.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:22:51 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Water People
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In _Critical Path_ Fuller talks about the Water People sailing around =
the Earth for several thousands of years.  A person named Gunnar =
Thompson has done quite a bit of research about the world's =
Sailor-Navigators.  See:=20

_Nu Sun: Asian-American Voyages, 500 BC_
Pioneer Publishing Co, Fresno, CA, USA
1989 (Out of Print)

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#00ffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>In =
_Critical=20
Path_ Fuller talks about the Water People sailing around the Earth for =
several=20
thousands of years.&nbsp; A person named Gunnar Thompson has done quite =
a bit of=20
research about the world's Sailor-Navigators.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5>See:=20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D5></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff size=3D5>_Nu =
Sun:=20
Asian-American Voyages, 500 BC_</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5>Pioneer=20
Publishing Co, Fresno, CA, USA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5>1989 (Out of=20
Print)</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR>Joe S Moore: <A =

href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0316D.EA6110C0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:59:59 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)
Comments: To: Pat Rigby <RigbyP@wdsd.org>
Comments: cc: _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>,
          _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Pat,

See: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-M.htm
(Scroll down to "Models")

If you don't find what you're looking for, please let me know.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Rigby" <RigbyP@wdsd.org>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:51 AM
Subject: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)


> Could you give me a source for building Geodesic
> Domes with young elementary Students?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pat Rigby-TAG Coordinator
> Winston-Dillard School
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 06:31:37 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] CPD may get sued

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   09-OCT-2000  6:31
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 most of the checklist that the Dept. o'State regularly trots-out
 for "regimes" to follow, are being violated in the USA.  now that
 the Voting Rights Act is kaput,
 that avenue of association (parties) is (temporarily) not viable,
 to address any meaningful action on the protestors' issues (but
 the Voting Rights Clarification Act of 2000 (HR-4961) may rescue this .-)
    i.e.it is horrible to see State, til recently,
 abstruct the process of peace in Sudan, based upon the say-soes
 --nay, market-making efforts--
 of a bunch of definable Yahoo!s on alleged slavery
 (there was only rather ineffable documentation
 of "Xian Solidarity" buying-back "slaves" for an exhorbitant $50,
 a small fortune, in Sudan).

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm

 thus quoth:
  >"WASHINGTON--The State Department has sharply condemned a ruling >by Ivory
  Coast's Supreme Court that limits the number of presidential >candidates to
  just five of the 20 who sought the office.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:40:05 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Why the world needs reverse engineers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Why the world needs reverse engineers, by Weld Pond
http://news.excite.com/news/zd/001009/09/why-the-world

People engaged in reverse engineering are a check on the
ability of companies to invade our privacy without our
knowledge. What are they hiding in there?

Companies are hiding a lot of things: their mistakes,
security vulnerabilities, privacy violations and trade
secrets. Usually, if someone finds out how a product
works by reverse engineering, the product will be less
valuable. Companies think they have everything to lose
with reverse engineering. This may be true, but the rest
of the world has much to gain.

Take for example the :CueCat barcode scanner from
Digital:Convergence, which Radio Shack, Forbes and Wired
Magazine have been giving away. It scans small bar codes
found in magazines and catalogs into your computer, then
sends you to a Web site, which gives you more
information. Linux programmers, ever eager to get a new
device to work with the Linux operating system, took the
thing apart.

They reverse engineered the encoding the device used and
found out how it worked. This allowed them to write their
own applications for the device. One of the better
applications was one that allowed you to create a card
catalog for your home library. By scanning in the ISBN
barcodes on the back of your books the application is
able to download information from Amazon.com and build
a database. So here we have someone building something
new by stitching together the :CueCat, Linux and Amazon.

Digital:Convergence didn't like this at all. It wanted to
be in control of the Web site you went to when you swiped
a barcode. The company didn't like the fact that other
people could write software for the device it was giving
away and that they didn't make any money from that. It
also didn't like the fact that, in the process of reverse
engineering the :CueCat, programmers discovered that
every one of them has a unique serial number. These
programmers later found out and publicized that this
serial number is tied into the customer information you
give when you register your :CueCat on the
Digital:Convergence Web site. The end result is
Digital:Convergence can record every barcode swipe you
make along with your customer information.

Reverse engineering allowed people to truly understand
what the product was doing. This wasn't at all clear
from information that Digital:Convergence originally
gave out.

Checks and balances

Many of the privacy risks we face today such as the
unique computer identification numbers in Microsoft
Office documents, the sneaky collection of data by
Real Jukebox, or the use of Web bugs and cookies to
track users were only discovered by opening up the
hood and seeing how things really work. Companies do
not publish this kind of information publicly.

Sometimes they even disavow that they meant to design
and build their products to work way it ends up working.
People engaged in reverse engineering are a check on the
ability of companies to invade our privacy without our
knowledge. By going public with the information they
uncover they are able to force companies to change what
they are doing lest they face a consumer backlash.

Uncovering security vulnerabilities is another domain
where reverse engineers are sorely needed. Whether by
poor design, bad implementation, or inadequate testing,
products ship with vulnerabilities that need to be
corrected. No one wants bad security, except maybe
criminals, but many companies are not willing to put in
the time and energy required to ship products without
even well known classes of problems. They use weak
cryptography, they don't check for buffer overflows,
and they use things like cookies insecurely. Reverse
engineers, who publicly release information about flaws,
force companies to fix them, and alert their customers
in a timely manner.

The only way the public finds out about most privacy or
security problems is from the free public disclosures of
individuals and organizations. There are privacy
watchdog groups and security information clearinghouses
but without the reverse engineers who actually do the
research we would never know where the problems are.

There are some trends in the computer industry now that
could eliminate the benefits reverse engineering has to
offer. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was
used by the Motion Pictures Association of America (MPAA)
to successfully stop 2600 Magazine from publishing
information about the flawed DVD content protection
scheme. The information about the scheme, which a
programmer uncovered by reverse engineering, was now
contraband. It was illegal under the DMCA.

Think about that. There are now black boxes, whether in
hardware or software, that are illegal to peek inside.
You can pay for it and use it, but you are not allowed
to open up the hood. You cannot look to see if the box
violates your privacy or has a security vulnerability
that puts you at risk.

Companies that make hardware and software products love
this property and are going to build their products so
that they fall under the protection of the DMCA. :CueCat
did this when they built their product. They added a
trivial encoding scheme, which they call encryption, so
that their bar code scanner was protected against reverse
engineering by the DMCA. We can expect to see many more
companies do this.

As more of our entertainment and the world's valuable
information move into the realm of digital content we
are sure to see a plethora of content protections schemes.
They will be built into software viewers and browsers,
operating systems, and the hardware itself: laptops,
televisions, video cameras, telephones, stereos, and
practically every electronic device. Will it all be off
limits to reverse engineering? Are we going to lose this
important resource for learning about the risks of living
in our high tech society?

This is a future that is scary to me. One of the notions
that was born out of the Enlightenment is that at the core
of human nature lies the need to inquire about the world
around us. As we move our discourse and society into the
digital realm it will be a tragedy to lose this fundamental
freedom which has served us so well.

Weld Pond is the manager of research and development with
security firm @stake Inc.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 06:43:18 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem etc.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   09-OCT-2000  6:43
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 your Coda to then Nationstate falls down on this basis,
 at least; as the substantial center of cartel-commerce
 in Known Universe, the City (financial dystrict) of London has never
 been barred to the oligarch, as we will recall from the founding
 of the East India Companies.  it merely denies any representation
 to the local governance, the Council (and its now-elected Mayor)
 of London;
 by royal edict, it is its own law --
 other than when/if the Sovereign puts her foot, up!

 thus quoth:
  Because corporations are "network nations" (different topology),
  they have no trouble sharing cities, often congregate in cities
  with a reputation for hosting hubs, corporate centers, major
  shrines (corner offices for various bosses, curriculum gods or
  whatever).  London (actually a small section of Greater London,
  guarded by a pillar to keep the King or Queen of England at
  bay) is in this sense a "capital city" for many network nations
  all at once.

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm

 we should also note the tremendous influence
 of the doctrines that Betty Dos holds dear, British Israelitism,
 in the creation & troubles of that state.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 07:02:25 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem etc.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   09-OCT-2000  7:02
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 2. Plato, Timaeus. Critias relates to Socrates and friends, a story told
 him by his grandfather, who said that the achievements of the city in the
 old days, now forgotten because of the passage of time and the destruction
 of human life, were great and marvelous. The grandfather described an
 encounter between Solon, the ruler of Athens, and a very old priest. The
 priest tells Solon that the Greeks are but children, and do not possess one
 old belief rooted in ancient tradition, nor any learning made hoary by
 age. You recall only one deluge on earth, even though there were many, he
 tells the astonished Solon. Moreover, you are ignorant of the fact that the
 best and finest breed of men once lived in your land and that you and your
 whole city derive from a small remnant of their seed. This you have
 forgotten because for many generations the survivors died leaving no
 written record. The priest goes on to explain that the present civilized
 order in our part of the world, according to sacred texts, was established
 8,000 years ago. But even 9,000 years ago, there existed a culture with
 many fine achievements, including trans-Atlantic navigation, which the
 priest describes. (Timaeus, translated by a team of LaRouche associates in
 The Campaigner, February 1980.)

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:54:07 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)
Comments: To: Pat Rigby <RigbyP@wdsd.org>
Comments: cc: _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>,
          _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Pat,

The link that you are referring to was broken.  See http://www.kelvin.com .
Click on their "Web Index" and then click on "Geodesic Dome Kits".  While on
the "Geometry & Modeling Sets" page do a search for "geodesic".  You should
get some additional hits including a "Teacher Guide".  Sorry for the
complexity.  Their search function is buried several levels down--bad web
page design.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Rigby" <RigbyP@wdsd.org>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)


> Thanks for responding so quickly.  I think I found the Dome
> Index.  How do you open Building Geodesic Domes in the
> Classroom?
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:10:31 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem etc.
In-Reply-To:  <200010091343.e99DhIh04295@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:43 AM 10/09/2000 -0700, Brian Hutchings wrote:
><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   09-OCT-2000  6:43
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> your Coda to then Nationstate falls down on this basis,
> at least; as the substantial center of cartel-commerce
> in Known Universe, the City (financial dystrict) of London has never
> been barred to the oligarch, as we will recall from the founding
> of the East India Companies.

Well, there's been some contest, from time to time, as to
just who _is_ the oligarch (if you mean monarch).  Like
Henry VI started out as King of England (Joan of Arc's day),
but lost control to Richard of York during a bout of hereditary
mental illness.  London then sided with the Yorkists, leading
Henry's Vice Admiral to lay seige to the City (the so-called
'Bombardment of London' of 1471) after being denied access.
Henry lost out and was killed in the Tower (as was the Vice
Admiral eventually), while Richard's son, Edward IV, became
the new King.

In any case, the City of London has had singular freedoms
since the days of at least William the Conquerer (London
backed Harold, brother-in-law to Edward the Confessor,
but made peace with the victor after the Battle of Hastings).
They say Charles II was the last monarch to really mess with
the City's internal politics in any serious way.  His predecessor,
Charles I, certainly learned the hard way (1625-49) -- actually
that had more to do with London being in the Roundhead camp.

Anyway, that jabber about the Monarch needing permission to
enter the city is just what the tour guide told us last time
I was in the City -- riding around on one of those double-
decker jobbers (this was enroute back from my 1st trip to
South Africa and Lesotho, on British Airways).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:44:54 -0400
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Message text written by "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's
works"
>> Could you give me a source for building Geodesic
> Domes with young elementary Students?
>> Thanks,
>> Pat Rigby-TAG Coordinator
> Winston-Dillard School<

        I have on line books on the subject for elementary through high
school level.  I also have paper cut outs for several domes also.  The
homepage URL is     =

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/
Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:40:03 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: LET'S BUILD A DOME CITY NOW!
In-Reply-To:  <381358646.970748623749.JavaMail.root@web191-iw>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The DOME CITY list is too proprietary for my tastes so I unsubscribed.
Nothing about the city is revealed unless you fill out a questionnaire
about yourself and sign a non-disclosure agreement. (see list messages
below)

Dexter Graphic


> From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
> Date: Thu Oct 5, 2000 00:02am
> Subject: ABOUT THE QUESTIONAIRE - I NEED IT NOW!
>
> Hello Friends,
>
> I really need to get your Questionaires back ASAP - as we need help
> now!
>
> IF you don't want to fill it out, or it doesn't get it back to me
> within a couple of days, I'll have to 'unsubscribe' you.
>
> So Please get it back to me ASAP.
>
> Thx, Dan - Moderator


> From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
> Date: Thu Oct 5, 2000 12:36pm
> Subject: NON-CIRCUMVENTION / NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT
>
> Because of the 'proprietary' nature of the Systems I've developed
> over the last 20+ years, I expect everyone who chooses to be involved
> to sign & notarize a Non-Circumvention / Non-Disclosure Agreement.
>
> I've put a heck of a lot of money & time into developing these
> Systems, so I expect everyone to honor & respect my work through this
> confidentiality agreement.
>
> You - those of you who have committed to some level of participation -
> will have the opportunity to input your ideas, experience, expertise
> & skills as well - & get appropriately rewarded for them.
>
> Thanks again for joining our group.
>
> Dan, Moderator


> From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
> Date: Thu Oct 5, 2000 5:46pm
> Subject: Basic Master Plan of Dome City
>
> Dome City Master Plan
>
> Once I received ALL members Questionaires & N/C N/D Agreements, THEN
> I can put up the basic outline of the Dome City Master Plan.
>
> That will immediately answer many of your general questions about the
> Project.
>
> So, let's get those questionaires into my 'mailbox' right away - then
> we can proceed.
>
> Any comments, suggestions or questions are always welcome.
>
> Also, think about what areas of the City you would like to work on.
>
> Thx, Dan - Moderator


> From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
> Date: Sat Oct 7, 2000 7:52pm
> Subject: Next Stage Info
>
> For those of you who have filled out & returned the Questionaire, as
> well as the N/C N/D Agreement, I'll be sending you a URL to take you
> to the next 'Stage'.
>
> Thanks for your feedback.
>
> Dan - Moderator, DOMECITY


> From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities  <ecohealthrsrtcity@m...>
> Date: Wed Oct 4, 2000 11:59pm
> Subject: QUESTIONAIRE FOR ALL MEMBERS
>
> Hello Friends,
>
> Please fill out this questionaire & send it to me, personally @
>
> domecity@m...       Thanks, Dan
>
>
> NAME:__________________ ADDRESS:___________________________________
>
> CITY:__________________ ST:____ ZIP:_________ DOB:_________________
>
> Ph: ___________________/____________________ /_____________________
>
> Single / Married  Children: Y / N #:_____ JOB:_____________________
>
> BUSINESS NAME:__________________________ TYPE:_____________________
>
> AREAS OF EXPERTISE RELATED TO DEVELOPMENT PROJECT:
>
> Admin / Acctg / Const (list trades) / Computer / R.E. Agent - Broker
>
> Architect / Engineer / Developer / Others:_________________________
>
> 1)_________________________________________________________________
>
> 2)_________________________________________________________________
>
> 3)_________________________________________________________________
>
> 4)_________________________________________________________________
>
> 5)_________________________________________________________________
>
> 6)_________________________________________________________________
>
> Specific Areas of the Project you would like to work on:
>
> Admin / Master Planning / Drafting / R.E. / Marketing-Sales /
>
> Agriculture / Alternative Transport / Alternative Energy Sys /
>
> Recycling Sys / Air & Water Purification / Building Matls
>
> Others:
>
> 1)________________________________________________________________
>
> 2)________________________________________________________________
>
> 3)________________________________________________________________
>
> 4)________________________________________________________________
>
> 5)________________________________________________________________
>
> Would you personally want to Live & Work in the Community, or near by?
>
> Y / N  Comments:__________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Any other relevant info:__________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Looking forward to your feedback.
>
> Thx, Dan - Moderator
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:02:00 -0700
Reply-To:     peter@geni.org
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         geni <peter@GENI.ORG>
Subject:      Part-time book sales: SF Bucky Play
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bucky Friends:
The play: "Buckminster Fuller, the History (and Mystery) of the
Universe" is returning to San Francisco this week, Oct 13 - Dec 3rd.
All the show details are at <www.foghouse.com>   who are the producers.

The venue is in the George Coates Performance Hall, a renovated
cathedral in downtown San Francisco, right next to the "Civic Center"
Bart Station.

GENI has been hosting a Bucky book, map and video table at every show.
It gives theater patrons the opportunity to get some of Bucky's
artifacts while they are still in the glow of great theater.  The actor,
Ron Campbell, brings Bucky's ideas to life and challenges people to find
their own passion.

We are looking for a Part Time GENI Manager who would can run the book
exhibit at the show (Wed - Sun evenings, plus Sun matinee).   The ideal
person should know a bit about Bucky's work, have high integrity (you
will be responsible for keeping track of inventory and money) and live
in the San Francisco area.   We can offer a commission of sales.  (Your
income would be about $50 per night if the average sales remain the
same.).

Also, the GENI Manager would invite one additional person to assist each
night as a volunteer.  Many people return to see the show 2 - 3 times,
and this has been a simple scheduling task based on past experience.

Please e-mail Peter Meisen, or you can call me at 619-595-0139 for more
information.
Thank you,
Peter Meisen
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:01:26 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem etc.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   09-OCT-2000 14:01
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, the monarch of the Commonwealth (incl.Gr.Britain,
 incl.England) is considered *primus inter pares*
 ami=ongst the European monarchy, as noted
 byt that NPR blurb on the EU *not* putting Betty's face
 on the ECU.
    and, whty on Earth'd she have to go into the City,
 and who'd stop her, if she did?

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpely.neyt/bushint.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:24:02 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: LET'S BUILD A DOME CITY NOW!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Sounds like he has some swamp land he wants to sell.
-Tony.

        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Dexter Graphic [SMTP:dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET]
        Sent:   Monday, October 09, 2000 6:40 PM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: LET'S BUILD A DOME CITY NOW!

        The DOME CITY list is too proprietary for my tastes so I
unsubscribed.
        Nothing about the city is revealed unless you fill out a
questionnaire
        about yourself and sign a non-disclosure agreement. (see list
messages
        below)

        Dexter Graphic


        > From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
        > Date: Thu Oct 5, 2000 00:02am
        > Subject: ABOUT THE QUESTIONAIRE - I NEED IT NOW!
        >
        > Hello Friends,
        >
        > I really need to get your Questionaires back ASAP - as we need
help
        > now!
        >
        > IF you don't want to fill it out, or it doesn't get it back to me
        > within a couple of days, I'll have to 'unsubscribe' you.
        >
        > So Please get it back to me ASAP.
        >
        > Thx, Dan - Moderator


        > From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
        > Date: Thu Oct 5, 2000 12:36pm
        > Subject: NON-CIRCUMVENTION / NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT
        >
        > Because of the 'proprietary' nature of the Systems I've developed
        > over the last 20+ years, I expect everyone who chooses to be
involved
        > to sign & notarize a Non-Circumvention / Non-Disclosure Agreement.
        >
        > I've put a heck of a lot of money & time into developing these
        > Systems, so I expect everyone to honor & respect my work through
this
        > confidentiality agreement.
        >
        > You - those of you who have committed to some level of
participation -
        > will have the opportunity to input your ideas, experience,
expertise
        > & skills as well - & get appropriately rewarded for them.
        >
        > Thanks again for joining our group.
        >
        > Dan, Moderator


        > From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
        > Date: Thu Oct 5, 2000 5:46pm
        > Subject: Basic Master Plan of Dome City
        >
        > Dome City Master Plan
        >
        > Once I received ALL members Questionaires & N/C N/D Agreements,
THEN
        > I can put up the basic outline of the Dome City Master Plan.
        >
        > That will immediately answer many of your general questions about
the
        > Project.
        >
        > So, let's get those questionaires into my 'mailbox' right away -
then
        > we can proceed.
        >
        > Any comments, suggestions or questions are always welcome.
        >
        > Also, think about what areas of the City you would like to work
on.
        >
        > Thx, Dan - Moderator


        > From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
        > Date: Sat Oct 7, 2000 7:52pm
        > Subject: Next Stage Info
        >
        > For those of you who have filled out & returned the Questionaire,
as
        > well as the N/C N/D Agreement, I'll be sending you a URL to take
you
        > to the next 'Stage'.
        >
        > Thanks for your feedback.
        >
        > Dan - Moderator, DOMECITY


        > From: Eco-Healthy-Sustainable Resort Cities
<ecohealthrsrtcity@m...>
        > Date: Wed Oct 4, 2000 11:59pm
        > Subject: QUESTIONAIRE FOR ALL MEMBERS
        >
        > Hello Friends,
        >
        > Please fill out this questionaire & send it to me, personally @
        >
        > domecity@m...       Thanks, Dan
        >
        >
        > NAME:__________________
ADDRESS:___________________________________
        >
        > CITY:__________________ ST:____ ZIP:_________
DOB:_________________
        >
        > Ph: ___________________/____________________
/_____________________
        >
        > Single / Married  Children: Y / N #:_____
JOB:_____________________
        >
        > BUSINESS NAME:__________________________
TYPE:_____________________
        >
        > AREAS OF EXPERTISE RELATED TO DEVELOPMENT PROJECT:
        >
        > Admin / Acctg / Const (list trades) / Computer / R.E. Agent -
Broker
        >
        > Architect / Engineer / Developer /
Others:_________________________
        >
        >
1)_________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
2)_________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
3)_________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
4)_________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
5)_________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
6)_________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Specific Areas of the Project you would like to work on:
        >
        > Admin / Master Planning / Drafting / R.E. / Marketing-Sales /
        >
        > Agriculture / Alternative Transport / Alternative Energy Sys /
        >
        > Recycling Sys / Air & Water Purification / Building Matls
        >
        > Others:
        >
        > 1)________________________________________________________________
        >
        > 2)________________________________________________________________
        >
        > 3)________________________________________________________________
        >
        > 4)________________________________________________________________
        >
        > 5)________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Would you personally want to Live & Work in the Community, or near
by?
        >
        > Y / N  Comments:__________________________________________________
        >
        > __________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Any other relevant info:__________________________________________
        >
        > __________________________________________________________________
        >
        > __________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Looking forward to your feedback.
        >
        > Thx, Dan - Moderator
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:28:29 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem etc.
In-Reply-To:  <200010092101.e99L1Qo06517@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>    and, whty on Earth'd she have to go into the City,
> and who'd stop her, if she did?

I don't sense that relations between the Crown and the
City are especially problematic at the moment.  The
Pillar is dormant-symbolic, but could be activated in
times of crisis.  Something for a science fiction
story I guess.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:05:11 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Index of -wnet-bucky-qt
Comments: To: _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>,
          _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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22 miscellaneous black/white & color Bucky-related QuickTime movies at =
PBS affiliate WNET:

Interviews with Bucky
Interviews with Bucky's friends
Dymaxion House (Wichita)
Dymaxion Vehicle
Ovolving Closet
Various Domes
Etc.

Between 5-20 minute downloads--depending on your connection--but well =
worth it.

 http://www.pbs.org/wnet/bucky/qt/

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#c0c0c0>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><STRONG>22 =
miscellaneous=20
black/white &amp; color Bucky-related QuickTime movies at PBS affiliate=20
WNET:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D4><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG>Interviews with=20
Bucky</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG>Interviews with=20
Bucky's friends</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG>Dymaxion House=20
(Wichita)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG>Dymaxion=20
Vehicle</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG>Ovolving=20
Closet</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG>Various=20
Domes</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D4><STRONG>Etc.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D4><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG>Between 5-20=20
minute downloads--depending on your connection--but well worth=20
it.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><BR><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D4>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.pbs.org/wnet/bucky/qt/"><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D4>http://www.pbs.org/wnet/bucky/qt/</FONT></STRONG></A></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><BR><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4>Joe S Moore:=20
</FONT></STRONG><A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D4>joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:=20
</FONT></STRONG><A =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D4>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>=
<FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:18:47 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Geodesic Houseboat
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Comments: cc: _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>
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Why not build a geodesic houseboat?  See:

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeStretchHull.htm
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeHouseboat.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Why not build a =
geodesic=20
houseboat?&nbsp; See:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeStretchHull.htm">ht=
tp://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeStretchHull.htm</A></FONT></S=
TRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeHouseboat.htm">http=
://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeHouseboat.htm</A></FONT></STRON=
G></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR>Joe S Moore: <A =

href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:29:53 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] THE WORLD BANK, THE IMF AND THE ALIENS WHO ATE ECUADOR

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-OCT-2000 11:29
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 "Dr. Bankenstein's Monsters" is quite a good brief, but
 it promotes the fabulous notion that the bank liberalizations and
 privatizations and bail-outs have helped primarily "US and local elites,"
 when the ultimate change of hands has filled those
 of the City (of London), especially throughout Iberoamerica.
    don't forget, the IMF is a UN organization, although
 the UN is a far-cry from what FDR had planned,
 with its hypercolonial Permanent Five.

 of course, if you'd read LaRouche, you'd have known about that,
 some decades ago!

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:58:37 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] THE WORLD BANK, THE IMF AND THE ALIENS WHO ATE ECUADOR
In-Reply-To:  <200010101829.e9AITrv13396@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:29 AM 10/10/2000 -0700, Brian Hutchings wrote:
><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-OCT-2000 11:29
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> "Dr. Bankenstein's Monsters" is quite a good brief

This was a complete non sequitur on GEODESIC.  We're not following
Q-P threads -- another list entirely.  But then, I'm sure the Q-Pers
are equally lost (those few remaining who make the attempt to
follow).  Congrats on imploding into a black hole again.  -- Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:43:34 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Did anyone else besides me get fuming mad listening
to those big-ego architects bad mouthing Bucky on TV
this evening?

I couldn't believe it. As part of the "Building Big"
educational series, in tonight's episode about domes,
Buckminster Fuller was portrayed as a babbling cult
leader who somehow got lucky and stumbled across one
good idea, the geodesic dome, in a lifetime of wacky
ideas, snake-oil showmanship, and technical failures.
But he did manage an undue influence over the minds
of impressionable young people and hippies, though.

There were lots of important looking professionals to
say slanderous and demeaning things about him. They
made it a point to mention that his Dymaxion car was
unstable and flipped, that his Montreal dome burned,
implied that his patents were for self aggrandizement,
that his ideas were stolen from others, and described
his lectures as unintelligible nonsense. To boot, they
showed the most ridiculous clips of Bucky waving his
hands around, grinning in wide-eyed amazement, and
speaking about food flying out of his mouth and back
to the store without giving any context whatsoever.

It was an intentional smear job by the professional
architects and engineers who helped put this series
together--mediocre minds jealous of Bucky's creative
genius. Well, none of them will ever have a molecule
named after them! And in the future ages of light
and life, Buckminster Fuller will be recognized as
one of history's great thinkers who's work helped
humanity emerge from poverty, ignorance, and fear.

They didn't even make an honest attempt to explain
how the domes worked or what geodesic means! (And
why did they keep calling them geodEEEsic anyway?)

Dexter Graphic
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:47:30 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 1:43 AM
Subject: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes


> Did anyone else besides me get fuming mad listening
> to those big-ego architects bad mouthing Bucky on TV
> this evening?
>
> I couldn't believe it. As part of the "Building Big"
> educational series, in tonight's episode about domes,
> Buckminster Fuller was portrayed as a babbling cult
> leader who somehow got lucky and stumbled across one
> good idea, the geodesic dome, in a lifetime of wacky
> ideas, snake-oil showmanship, and technical failures.
> But he did manage an undue influence over the minds
> of impressionable young people and hippies, though.
>
> There were lots of important looking professionals to
> say slanderous and demeaning things about him. They
> made it a point to mention that his Dymaxion car was
> unstable and flipped, that his Montreal dome burned,
> implied that his patents were for self aggrandizement,
> that his ideas were stolen from others, and described
> his lectures as unintelligible nonsense. To boot, they
> showed the most ridiculous clips of Bucky waving his
> hands around, grinning in wide-eyed amazement, and
> speaking about food flying out of his mouth and back
> to the store without giving any context whatsoever.
>
> It was an intentional smear job by the professional
> architects and engineers who helped put this series
> together--mediocre minds jealous of Bucky's creative
> genius. Well, none of them will ever have a molecule
> named after them! And in the future ages of light
> and life, Buckminster Fuller will be recognized as
> one of history's great thinkers who's work helped
> humanity emerge from poverty, ignorance, and fear.
>
> They didn't even make an honest attempt to explain
> how the domes worked or what geodesic means! (And
> why did they keep calling them geodEEEsic anyway?)
>
> Dexter Graphic
>

It could be worse Dexter .... They could be rounding us up right now .....

 Hold on, there's somebody at my door..
............................................................................
......
............................................................................
......
............................................................................
.....
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:06:01 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dexter Graphic [mailto:dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:44 AM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
>
>
> why did they keep calling them geodEEEsic anyway?)
>
> Dexter Graphic
>

According to my dictionary both pronunciations are correct.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:16:26 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Was this a PBS production or TLC or TDC or what ?

-Tony.


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Dexter Graphic [SMTP:dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET]
        Sent:   Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:44 AM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Building Big (egos instead of) Domes

        Did anyone else besides me get fuming mad listening
        to those big-ego architects bad mouthing Bucky on TV
        this evening?

        I couldn't believe it. As part of the "Building Big"
        educational series, in tonight's episode about domes,
        Buckminster Fuller was portrayed as a babbling cult
        leader who somehow got lucky and stumbled across one
        good idea, the geodesic dome, in a lifetime of wacky
        ideas, snake-oil showmanship, and technical failures.
        But he did manage an undue influence over the minds
        of impressionable young people and hippies, though.

        There were lots of important looking professionals to
        say slanderous and demeaning things about him. They
        made it a point to mention that his Dymaxion car was
        unstable and flipped, that his Montreal dome burned,
        implied that his patents were for self aggrandizement,
        that his ideas were stolen from others, and described
        his lectures as unintelligible nonsense. To boot, they
        showed the most ridiculous clips of Bucky waving his
        hands around, grinning in wide-eyed amazement, and
        speaking about food flying out of his mouth and back
        to the store without giving any context whatsoever.

        It was an intentional smear job by the professional
        architects and engineers who helped put this series
        together--mediocre minds jealous of Bucky's creative
        genius. Well, none of them will ever have a molecule
        named after them! And in the future ages of light
        and life, Buckminster Fuller will be recognized as
        one of history's great thinkers who's work helped
        humanity emerge from poverty, ignorance, and fear.

        They didn't even make an honest attempt to explain
        how the domes worked or what geodesic means! (And
        why did they keep calling them geodEEEsic anyway?)

        Dexter Graphic
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:38:08 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      PBS Domes Program
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>,
          _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>
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All establishments instinctively attempt to suppress all "disruptive" =
technologies that seem to threaten their vested interests--until there =
is an emergency.  We have no choice but to patiently wait until that =
time arrives, which is not too far off, I suspect.  In the meantime I, =
at least, will try to make sure that as many people as possible know =
what proven alternatives exist.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D5>All establishments=20
instinctively attempt to suppress all "disruptive" technologies that =
seem to=20
threaten their vested interests--until there is an emergency.&nbsp; We =
have no=20
choice but to patiently wait until that time arrives, which is not too =
far off,=20
I suspect.&nbsp; In the meantime I, at least, will try to make sure that =
as many=20
people as possible know what proven alternatives =
exist.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR><FONT size=3D5>Joe S =
Moore:=20
</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><FONT=20
size=3D5>joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT size=3D5>Buckminster =
Fuller Virtual=20
Institute: </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><FONT=20
size=3D5>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></A><BR><FONT=20
size=3D5>&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C0335E.94B1DA40--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:39:36 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: PBS Domes Program
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I, and others, feel that the Domes program last night deliberately left a
distinctly negative impression regarding Fuller.  Some of the audio & video
clips of him when taken out of context seemed to make him out as a fool.  It
was definitely not a positive portrayal of him.  Some of the allegedly
authoritative comments of others were unfair or downright wrong.  The whole
segment about Fuller seemed to be specifically designed to discredit him.
This is not the first time this has happened, & probably won't be the last.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <rowley@mail.telalink.net>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: PBS Domes Program


>
> Joe S Moore wrote:
>
> > All establishments instinctively attempt to suppress all
> > "disruptive" technologies that seem to threaten their
> > vested interests--until there is an emergency.  We have
> > no choice but to patiently wait until that time arrives,
> > which is not too far off, I suspect.  In the meantime I,
> > at least, will try to make sure that as many people as
> > possible know what proven alternatives exist.
>
> Joe, please say more? How does this apply to the PBS domes program
(Assuming
> you mean the "Building Big" segment about domes.)
>
> This definitely applies to some other hot topics, too, like fossil fuels.
>
> jmr
>
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
>       ========== Web: http://www.domegroup.org
>    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>  =============== To unsubscribe, write: unsubscribe DomeHome-H
> ================ and send to this address: requests@h19.hoflin.com
>
>
> ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:24:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         trimariner <trimariner@GULFISLANDS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes

Did anyone else besides me get fuming mad listening
to those big-ego architects bad mouthing Bucky on TV
this evening?


I have found in the past, whenever someone or some group attacks
an individual or group, for their beliefs and way of thinking it
is always from a standpoint of fear.

Because of a lack of understanding and a reluctance to learn, or
when confronted with an original thought, the best way to defend
your position is to attack.

Fortunately, throughout history, most of these attacks have been
proven to be exactly what they were, small minded, little men,
afraid of something new, afraid of something they do not
understand and unwilling to learn.

What does disturb me about this episode, is the position of PBS.
This is supposed to be an "Educational Series". A one sided
tirade by a bunch of so called professionals is hardly an
education. Maybe we can ask for equal time to enlighten the
public on the benefits and beauty of domes and the shortcomings
of traditional architecture.

Bob Wilson



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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:22:56 -0500
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From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

To PBS's credit, they did air the American Masters episode on Bucky
"Thinking Out Loud".
I have a copy and I enjoy it. It seems fairly balanced, not a hatefest or a
lovefest.

-Tony Kalenak.


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   trimariner [SMTP:trimariner@GULFISLANDS.COM]
        Sent:   Wednesday, October 11, 2000 12:24 PM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes

        Did anyone else besides me get fuming mad listening
        to those big-ego architects bad mouthing Bucky on TV
        this evening?


        I have found in the past, whenever someone or some group attacks
        an individual or group, for their beliefs and way of thinking it
        is always from a standpoint of fear.

        Because of a lack of understanding and a reluctance to learn, or
        when confronted with an original thought, the best way to defend
        your position is to attack.

        Fortunately, throughout history, most of these attacks have been
        proven to be exactly what they were, small minded, little men,
        afraid of something new, afraid of something they do not
        understand and unwilling to learn.

        What does disturb me about this episode, is the position of PBS.
        This is supposed to be an "Educational Series". A one sided
        tirade by a bunch of so called professionals is hardly an
        education. Maybe we can ask for equal time to enlighten the
        public on the benefits and beauty of domes and the shortcomings
        of traditional architecture.

        Bob Wilson



        ---
        Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
        Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
        Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 04/10/00
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:50:08 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
In-Reply-To:  <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC3918666C@PSCSERVER3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:22 PM 10/11/2000 -0500, Tony Kalenak wrote:
>To PBS's credit, they did air the American Masters episode on Bucky
>"Thinking Out Loud".
>I have a copy and I enjoy it. It seems fairly balanced, not a hatefest or a
>lovefest.
>
>-Tony Kalenak.

A lot of people on this list didn't like that one either (I didn't
hate it -- liked the use of music especially).

I missed the PBS thing, unfortunately -- maybe I'll get a tape out
of the library at some point.

Until we have some movies which explore Fuller's philosophical
geometry with sensitivity and appreciation (even if it's possible
to be judgemental and dismissive regarding that too), we'll be
ignoring a lot of essential angles.  Just focussing on the dome
or even all the artifact-inventions (patented or otherwise) is
insufficient (of course we can call the geometry an artifact --
but that's too technical a discussion).

I think a good movie would use a lot of Fuller's ideas appreciatively,
but not be about inspiring worshipful awe of the man himself.  This
whole thing about "disciples" is a bugaboo (for the most part). We're
serious-minded students who credit Fuller for making a huge contribution
to our shared curriculum (a curriculum not yet shared by the wider
culture, by and large).

I think a lot of the cynicism re Fuller is directed against an
image of what the "disciples" would do with him if they controlled
the media, i.e. it's anticipatorily dismissive just in case we
manage to keep growing in stature (as a school of thought).  I think
that's a hollow cynicism though, as it fights an empty projection
(a fear, a ghost), less a reality.

Anyway, Fuller was a philosopher more than an architect, in my
book.  The architects don't deserve to claim him as one of
theirs.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:00:47 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

>Anyway, Fuller was a philosopher more than an architect, in my
>book.

I think you are right.
If anyone category fits the man, philosopher would be it, in much the same
way that it fit Pythagoras or Archimedes.

-Tony.

        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Kirby Urner [SMTP:pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM]
        Sent:   Wednesday, October 11, 2000 1:50 PM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes

        At 01:22 PM 10/11/2000 -0500, Tony Kalenak wrote:
        >To PBS's credit, they did air the American Masters episode on Bucky
        >"Thinking Out Loud".
        >I have a copy and I enjoy it. It seems fairly balanced, not a
hatefest or a
        >lovefest.
        >
        >-Tony Kalenak.

        A lot of people on this list didn't like that one either (I didn't
        hate it -- liked the use of music especially).

        I missed the PBS thing, unfortunately -- maybe I'll get a tape out
        of the library at some point.

        Until we have some movies which explore Fuller's philosophical
        geometry with sensitivity and appreciation (even if it's possible
        to be judgemental and dismissive regarding that too), we'll be
        ignoring a lot of essential angles.  Just focussing on the dome
        or even all the artifact-inventions (patented or otherwise) is
        insufficient (of course we can call the geometry an artifact --
        but that's too technical a discussion).

        I think a good movie would use a lot of Fuller's ideas
appreciatively,
        but not be about inspiring worshipful awe of the man himself.  This
        whole thing about "disciples" is a bugaboo (for the most part).
We're
        serious-minded students who credit Fuller for making a huge
contribution
        to our shared curriculum (a curriculum not yet shared by the wider
        culture, by and large).

        I think a lot of the cynicism re Fuller is directed against an
        image of what the "disciples" would do with him if they controlled
        the media, i.e. it's anticipatorily dismissive just in case we
        manage to keep growing in stature (as a school of thought).  I think
        that's a hollow cynicism though, as it fights an empty projection
        (a fear, a ghost), less a reality.

        Anyway, Fuller was a philosopher more than an architect, in my
        book.  The architects don't deserve to claim him as one of
        theirs.

        Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:04:17 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: PBS Domes Program
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> All establishments instinctively attempt to suppress
> all "disruptive" technologies that seem to threaten
> their vested interests--until there is an emergency.
>  We have no choice but to patiently wait until that
> time arrives, which is not too far off, I suspect.
> In the meantime I, at least, will try to make sure
> that as many people as possible know what proven
> alternatives exist.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>
I didn't see it. So, maybe I shouldn't comment. But I
will.

People can't understand what they don't understand.
Anyone that "gets" Bucky is fortunate, at the very
least.  Without Bucky's books, I seriously would not
know what to think about the world. I can not too get
angry at the people that don't understand synergetics.
Bucky said that people are funny creatures, vain. They
say, yes, I knew that all along.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:53:33 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Global Weather Satellites
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03379.E1AACB20"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03379.E1AACB20
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Current colorized animated weather from The Weather Channel:

Western Hemisphere (600k)
http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/goesdisk_720x486.html

West Pacific (600k)
http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/wpacglobsat_720x486.html

Europe-Africa (600k)
http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/euro-africasat_720x486.html


Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><STRONG>Current colorized =
animated=20
weather from The Weather Channel:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Western Hemisphere=20
(600k)<BR></FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/goesdisk_720x486.html=
"><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D4>http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/goesdisk_720x486.htm=
l</FONT></STRONG></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><STRONG>West Pacific=20
(600k)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><A=20
href=3D"http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/wpacglobsat_720x486.h=
tml"><STRONG>http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/wpacglobsat_720x=
486.html</STRONG></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><STRONG>Europe-Africa=20
(600k)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><A=20
href=3D"http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/euro-africasat_720x48=
6.html"><STRONG>http://www.weather.com/weather/sat/animated/euro-africasa=
t_720x486.html</STRONG></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Joe S Moore:=20
</FONT></STRONG><A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:=20
</FONT></STRONG><A =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>=
<FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:35:26 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
In-Reply-To:  <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC39186668@PSCSERVER3>
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> Was this a PBS production or TLC or TDC or what ?
>
> -Tony.

BUILDING BIG is a coproduction of the WGBH Science Unit and
Production Group, Inc., and is presented on PBS by WGBH Boston.

Major funding is provided by the National Science Foundation.

Additional funding comes from the National Endowment for the
Humanities, The Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, the Corporation
for Public Broadcasting, and public television viewers.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:25:02 -0700
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
In-Reply-To:  <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC39186668@PSCSERVER3>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Here are some definitions from their "educational" web site for kids.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/glossary.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/geo_forces.html


"Geodesic Dome - a dome composed of short, straight pieces joined to
form triangles; invented by Buckminster Fuller"

"Geodesic Dome: Forces
All of the triangles in a geodesic dome are squeezed with equal force
in all directions."

(That's it--the only explanation of geodesics that's given. Then they
go on to tensegrity structures which are shown to be the cutting edge)

"Tensegrity - an array of tension cables and compression rods that
supports a structure; invented by Buckminster Fuller student Kenneth
Snellson"


In the TV show they had time to interview Snellson about how he felt
ripped off by Fuller because when he was a student under Fuller's
instruction at Black Mountain Art College he created a little stick
and wire sculpture which inspired Fuller to develop the engineering
principles of tensegrity.

They couldn't find enough TV air time, however, to show any footage
of Fuller explaining the design principles operating in a geodesic
dome--or anything else for that matter. Coverage was grossly askew.

Dexter Graphic
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:36:45 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Here is one of the big-shots who sees fit to poo-poo Fuller.


Matthys Levy, P.E.
Structural Engineer
Who Builds Big? | Career Info Index | Engineering Webography
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/profile/interview/levy.html

Matthys Levy has been designing domes, buildings, and bridges
for almost 50 years. His projects include the Georgia Dome
Stadium in Atlanta, Georgia; the Rose Center for Earth and
Space in New York City; and La Plata Stadium in Argentina. He
is the author of several books, including Why Buildings Fall
Down (1992) with Mario Salvadori, and Engineering the City: The
Story of Infrastructure (2000) with Richard Panchyk. He is a
principal with Weidlinger Associates, a structural and civil
engineering firm.


So what do you do as a structural engineer?

I design buildings and bridges, all kinds of buildings, from
long-span buildings, like stadiums, to tall buildings,
high-rise buildings, skyscrapers, to even houses.


And what are some projects that you're working on right now?

I have a stadium that is just starting construction in Argentina.
It's a very large stadium. It's for football -- or what they call
football there, which is soccer. And it seats about 50,000 people
and is actually, in terms of size, about the same size as the
Georgia Dome, which was also one of my projects. It has kind of
an unusual cable roof that I designed.


What makes the Georgia Dome unique? What makes it special as a
dome?

The two things I think that stand out about the Georgia Dome:
one, it's very large. It's almost 800 feet long and almost 700
feet wide. The plan is kind of an ellipse -- not a pure ellipse
but a type of ellipse. And it has a unique cable roof, which we
call a tensegrity roof, because it's a mixture of cable elements
and rigid posts, very much like an umbrella. If you think of an
umbrella, an umbrella has some rigid elements and very soft
elements. Then it has fabric, which serves as a surface of the
roof. And the fabric is translucent so that the whole roof
appears to be part of the sky. You can't look through it, but
you get light coming through it. And it's extremely light for
that span. It weighs only about five or six pounds per square
foot, where most roofs of that size would weigh at least four to
five times as much.


Is it the design itself that gives it its strength?

Yes, it's a very unique design that gives it its strength. The
cables are arranged in such a way that they actually pull against
the posts, so you have -- like a drum -- a very tight roof.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:38:54 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOAEOGDNAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
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>"Tensegrity - an array of tension cables and compression rods that
>supports a structure; invented by Buckminster Fuller student Kenneth
>Snellson"
 ^^^^^^^^

They spelled Snelson wrong.

>In the TV show they had time to interview Snellson about how he felt
>ripped off by Fuller because when he was a student under Fuller's
>instruction at Black Mountain Art College he created a little stick
>and wire sculpture which inspired Fuller to develop the engineering
>principles of tensegrity.

It's true the Snelson felt ripped off and was pissed that the
American Masterpiece documentary makers got him to spiel for 3 hours
and then all they used was a sound bite, vaguely positive.  At least
he got to have more of a say here.

For the record, I'm Snelson's webmaster and we're friends.  Snelson's
views are important to scholarship.  Fuller thought very highly of
Snelson, and although they had a falling-out, I think Fuller never
lost his respect and admiration for the guy (which I share).[1]

In my view, one Snelson's contribution is worth that of 1000 pro-
Fullerites who do little more than moan and pout about the world's
failures -- haven't the self-discipline to actually DO anything.
It took a lot of chutzpah and tenacity to fight Fuller on tensegrity
(in those days, Fuller was no "clown" but a force to be reckoned
with -- Snelson always felt himself the underdog).  Kinda like going
one-on-one with a Sumo wrestler and trying to take back what's
become his favorite sushi ("tensegrity -- yum!").

>They couldn't find enough TV air time, however, to show any footage
>of Fuller explaining the design principles operating in a geodesic
>dome--or anything else for that matter. Coverage was grossly askew.
>
>Dexter Graphic
>

This is all interesting intellectual history.  We'll do documentaries
in which we do some serious-minded media analysis of how Fuller
was denegrated after his death.  Apparently a lot of built up
hostility wanted to vent itself.  But this chapter didn't really
phase the Fuller School, which continued to develop and mature, in
cyberspace especially, plus make inroads into many aspects of the
culture, both in the USA and elsewhere.  In retrospect, we'll see
that these first attempts to be "objective" about Fuller were far
from being the last word on the subject.

Kirby

[1] For a more recent picture of Snelson, check
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/snelson.html -- he recently sent me
a new one, taken by his daughter (he ages well, don't you agree?).
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:41:42 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
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The Georgia Dome is an Aspension dome which Fuller invented. See:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/SuspendReverse.htm .
They give Fuller absolutely NO credit!  I think this is a case of
intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate conspiracy.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes


> Here is one of the big-shots who sees fit to poo-poo Fuller.
>
> Matthys Levy, P.E.
> Structural Engineer
> Who Builds Big? | Career Info Index | Engineering Webography
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/profile/interview/levy.html
>
> Matthys Levy has been designing domes, buildings, and bridges
> for almost 50 years. His projects include the Georgia Dome
> Stadium in Atlanta, Georgia; the Rose Center for Earth and
>
(snip)
>
> What makes the Georgia Dome unique? What makes it special as a
> dome?
>
> The two things I think that stand out about the Georgia Dome:
> one, it's very large. It's almost 800 feet long and almost 700
> feet wide. The plan is kind of an ellipse -- not a pure ellipse
> but a type of ellipse. And it has a unique cable roof, which we
> call a tensegrity roof, because it's a mixture of cable elements
> and rigid posts, very much like an umbrella. If you think of an
>
(snip)
>
> Is it the design itself that gives it its strength?
>
> Yes, it's a very unique design that gives it its strength. The
> cables are arranged in such a way that they actually pull against
> the posts, so you have -- like a drum -- a very tight roof.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:36:23 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   11-OCT-2000 10:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 now, isn't gee-oh-dee-sic the way that Britons say it?...
 is that because they know of the proper Greek pronounciation?
    PBS, especially via WGBH, NPR and PRI, has become a sort
 of mindmeld with British state and private media,
 with the recurring rounds of mergers that are being driven
 by the gigantic derivatives bubble.

 pronounce "geodesy," and that might take it where it goes.
 (as in, 2001, Odysseus ?-)
    heard tell, herein, that there was a great exhibit
 in London on Bucky, or a conference.  do you think,
 the good, ol'principle of *divide et impera* is being taken,
 by PBS, against another of our native sons & daughters?

 let's ask the dude in Georgia, but
 that description of the Bucky-segment was rather lurid
 (of course, most of the producers were probably on acid,
 at the time that this was actually occurring in sidereal time !-)
    makes me glad that I am still Killing my Television.

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:39:44 -0700
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
In-Reply-To:  <002a01c033dc$d000a9e0$500efbcf@oemcomputer>
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> I think this is a case of intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate
> conspiracy.

Yup, even their link to the Buckminster Fuller Institute is bogus:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/webography.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:45:01 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes


> > I think this is a case of intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate
> > conspiracy.
>
> Yup, even their link to the Buckminster Fuller Institute is bogus:
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/webography.html
>

I just sent PBS an e-mail giving them the correct link.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:07:11 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOIEOPDNAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 05:39 PM 10/11/2000 -0700, Dexter Graphic wrote:
>> I think this is a case of intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate
>> conspiracy.
>
>Yup, even their link to the Buckminster Fuller Institute is bogus:
>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/webography.html
>

Certainly it's very sloppy.

This WGBH website is nowhere near as sophisticated as the WNET
one.  Seems a real amateur effort.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:07:44 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
In-Reply-To:  <001601c033ee$0a04e5a0$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
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At 07:45 PM 10/11/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
>To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 6:39 PM
>Subject: Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
>
>
>> > I think this is a case of intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate
>> > conspiracy.
>>
>> Yup, even their link to the Buckminster Fuller Institute is bogus:
>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/webography.html
>>
>
>I just sent PBS an e-mail giving them the correct link.
>
>Mark
>

I'll be interested to see how quickly they take action.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:48:26 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
>
>
> > > I think this is a case of intellectual fraud, or
> maybe a deliberate
> > > conspiracy.
> >
> > Yup, even their link to the Buckminster Fuller
> Institute is bogus:
> >
>
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/webography.html
> >
>
> I just sent PBS an e-mail giving them the correct
> link.
>
> Mark
The link is correct now, Thursday afternoon.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:00:41 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> The Georgia Dome is an Aspension dome which Fuller
> invented. See:
>
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/SuspendReverse.htm
> .
> They give Fuller absolutely NO credit!  I think this
> is a case of
> intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate
> conspiracy.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>

Okay, I have to ask. What people would be in the
conspiracy?

How much danger would one be in, if one learned how to
build structures very cheaply?  I mean, say one of us
came up with a design that catapulted geodesic domes
to the front of the shelter line? And are we being
watched right now?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:08:36 -0500
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From:         Stephen O'Shaughnessy <sosha@TRIPLECROWNSVC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dick Fischbeck [mailto:dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:01 PM
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
>
> And are we being watched right now?


I think Lyndon LaRoushe is watching.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:24:20 -0500
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From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

We probably are being monitored by the AIA even as we speak !

-Tony.


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Dick Fischbeck [SMTP:dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM]
        Sent:   Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:01 PM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes

        --- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
        > The Georgia Dome is an Aspension dome which Fuller
        > invented. See:
        >
        http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/SuspendReverse.htm
        > .
        > They give Fuller absolutely NO credit!  I think this
        > is a case of
        > intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate
        > conspiracy.
        >
        > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
        > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
        > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
        >

        Okay, I have to ask. What people would be in the
        conspiracy?

        How much danger would one be in, if one learned how to
        build structures very cheaply?  I mean, say one of us
        came up with a design that catapulted geodesic domes
        to the front of the shelter line? And are we being
        watched right now?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:54:19 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes


> --- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> > The Georgia Dome is an Aspension dome which Fuller
> > invented. See:
> >
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/SuspendReverse.htm
> > .
> > They give Fuller absolutely NO credit!  I think this
> > is a case of
> > intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate
> > conspiracy.
> >
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
>
> Okay, I have to ask. What people would be in the
> conspiracy?
>
> How much danger would one be in, if one learned how to
> build structures very cheaply?  I mean, say one of us
> came up with a design that catapulted geodesic domes
> to the front of the shelter line? And are we being
> watched right now?
>

There is danger in that geodesic domes incorporate to a great extent the
principle of doing more with less. This is dangerous to the old way of
thinking. I visualize the end of the movie "Matrix" when the code on the
monitors falls apart as the falling apart of lots of principles associated
with the old idea that runs contrary to "doing more with less" a key
principle in the old way of how the world works. Ask the average Joe or
Josephine on the street and they will tell you war is inevitable. Ask the
average service person and they will tell you that war is inevitable. When
you ask them why, they will tell you because there is not enough to go
around. Domes are a physical structure that demonstrates that there is
enough to go around.

Also to get the old government snooping programs cracking I'd like to put
the word " Plutunium " ..... in this message .... And for good measure  ....
The NSA sucks and Energy Secretary Bill Richards is an idiot ... Yep that
oughta  work

For the puposes of this message I'm not "Not"

 Mark Somers

 who lives in Montana.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:56:50 -0500
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From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

You are now a "Marked" man.
-Tony.

        -----Original Message-----
        From:   marksomers [SMTP:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM]
        Sent:   Thursday, October 12, 2000 3:54 PM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
        Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
        To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
        Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 1:00 PM
        Subject: Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes


        > --- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
        > > The Georgia Dome is an Aspension dome which Fuller
        > > invented. See:
        > >
        > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/SuspendReverse.htm
        > > .
        > > They give Fuller absolutely NO credit!  I think this
        > > is a case of
        > > intellectual fraud, or maybe a deliberate
        > > conspiracy.
        > >
        > > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
        > > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
        > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
        > >
        >
        > Okay, I have to ask. What people would be in the
        > conspiracy?
        >
        > How much danger would one be in, if one learned how to
        > build structures very cheaply?  I mean, say one of us
        > came up with a design that catapulted geodesic domes
        > to the front of the shelter line? And are we being
        > watched right now?
        >

        There is danger in that geodesic domes incorporate to a great extent
the
        principle of doing more with less. This is dangerous to the old way
of
        thinking. I visualize the end of the movie "Matrix" when the code on
the
        monitors falls apart as the falling apart of lots of principles
associated
        with the old idea that runs contrary to "doing more with less" a key
        principle in the old way of how the world works. Ask the average Joe
or
        Josephine on the street and they will tell you war is inevitable.
Ask the
        average service person and they will tell you that war is
inevitable. When
        you ask them why, they will tell you because there is not enough to
go
        around. Domes are a physical structure that demonstrates that there
is
        enough to go around.

        Also to get the old government snooping programs cracking I'd like
to put
        the word " Plutunium " ..... in this message .... And for good
measure  ....
        The NSA sucks and Energy Secretary Bill Richards is an idiot ... Yep
that
        oughta  work

        For the puposes of this message I'm not "Not"

         Mark Somers

         who lives in Montana.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:24:39 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Building Big (egos instead of) Domes

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   12-OCT-2000  7:24
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 what is the proper domain of a "dome," anyway?
    that is, does the form justify itself
 in what is known as multifamily housing, or other structures,
 within or without the New Info Economy Age?
    maybe, we should address ourselves to The Code, and
 fitting the stuff into municipal infrastructure, instead
 of just lightly dyssing "union inertial guidance,"
 as Bucky didest.  (I'm sure, this is being done,
 at least on the outskirts .-)

 at the moment, I'd guess, the biggest conspiracy is that
 of taking Bucky too literally, once you've learned how
 to grok "La Principia del Universe" !!

 anyway, the Brits are the greatest anthropologists,
 harking from their initiation of the Masons, as a political operation,
 and ransacking the Holy Land for their clubhouses (musuems).  so,
 I have to wonder about them sucking po'Snelson, dry for 3 hours, and
 then all but ignoring his central principle of Universe, and
 Bucky's delineation & manufacture of it.  one must recall,
 the famous, alchemically burnt trunk of Newton,
 chief relic of the Second Church of Christ, Issac (of England:
 that is to say, absolutely nothing .-)

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:21:22 -0700
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Ted's dome home
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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I met a nice fellow named Ted who built himself a dome home and then
put up a web site to tell folks all about it. If you care to look, it
is at  http://www.together.net/~thorton/dome   (I think the aerial
photos are very nice--he's a balloonist!)

Dexter Graphic
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:56:45 -0500
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From:         J & D Goldman <jmgoldma@DWX.COM>
Subject:      Re: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)
Comments: To: domesteading@sculptors.com, Pat Rigby <RigbyP@wdsd.org>
Comments: cc: _Domesteading <domesteading@sculptors.com>,
          _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Here are a few sites that might be useful for school dome projects. I
have some nice hardcopy, but some of the sites don't currently have
the information anymore. Perhaps they can be asked to reinstate the
dome stuff.
-DmG

http://www.yesmag.bc.ca/projects/geodesic.html
http://www.connix.com/~jschneid/ncs.html  they used to have a
bitgood.html that had a nice cardboard dome.
http://www.jwhirler.com  had some good info but seems to be out of
commission. Ask for Trevor Blake's Dome pages at
http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/jw.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe S Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com>
To: Pat Rigby <RigbyP@wdsd.org>
Cc: _Geodesic <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>; _Domesteading
<domesteading@sculptors.com>; _DomeHomeList
<DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)


>Pat,
>
>See: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-M.htm
>(Scroll down to "Models")
>
>If you don't find what you're looking for, please let me know.
>
>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Pat Rigby" <RigbyP@wdsd.org>
>To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
>Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:51 AM
>Subject: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)
>
>
>> Could you give me a source for building Geodesic
>> Domes with young elementary Students?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Pat Rigby-TAG Coordinator
>> Winston-Dillard School
>>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:48:10 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Geodesic Dome Builiding for Young Students (Elementary)
In-Reply-To:  <007201c0358a$65d523c0$619fef3f@gateway>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:56 PM 10/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Here are a few sites that might be useful for school dome projects. I
>have some nice hardcopy, but some of the sites don't currently have
>the information anymore. Perhaps they can be asked to reinstate the
>dome stuff.
>-DmG
>
>http://www.yesmag.bc.ca/projects/geodesic.html
>http://www.connix.com/~jschneid/ncs.html  they used to have a
>bitgood.html that had a nice cardboard dome.
>http://www.jwhirler.com  had some good info but seems to be out of
>commission. Ask for Trevor Blake's Dome pages at
>http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/jw.htm


I have a working link to Trevor's stuff at:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeres.html

His page has also been featured at another site (with
permission).  He gets emails from a lot of people in
various walks of life.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:41:33 +0200
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         sst@BEMBERG.DE
Subject:      Earn $50,
              000 in 90 Days! It Really Works!  It worked so well the first
              time, I'm doing it again!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit

Dear Friend,

You can earn $50,000 or more in next the 90 days sending
e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details; is there
a catch; NO, there is no catch, just send your emails and
be on your way to financial freedom.

"AS SEEN ON NATIONAL TELEVISION"

Thank you for your time and Interest.
This is the letter you've been reading about in the news
lately.

Due to the popularity of this letter on the Internet,
a major nightly news program recently devoted an
entire show to the investigation of the program described
below to see, if it really can make people money.

The show also investigated whether or not the program was
legal.
Their findings proved once and for all that there are,
absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the
program. This has helped to show people that this is a
simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at
home.

The results of this show have been truly remarkable.
So many people are participating that those involved
are doing, much better than ever before.
Since everyone makes more as more people try it out,
its been very exciting to be a part of lately.
You will understand once you experience it.

"HERE IT IS BELOW"

================================================
*** Print This Now For Future Reference ***

The following income opportunity is one you may be
interested in taking a look at. It can be started with
VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If you would like to make at least $50,000 in less than 90
days!
Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY.

It does not require you to come into contact with people,
do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to
leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that
someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting
for, THIS IS IT!
Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will
come true.
This Multi-level e-mail order marketing program works
perfectly 100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the
future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of
advertising NOW!

The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business
using e-mail. Get your piece of this action !!!

MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained
respectability.
It is being taught in the Harvard Business School,
and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal
have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and
services will be sold through multi-level methods by the
mid to late 1990's.
This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the
500,000 millionaires in the U.S., 20% (100,000) made their
fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover,
statistics show 45people become millionaires everyday
through Multi-Level Marketing.

You may have heard this story before, but over the summer
Donald Trump made an appearance on the David Letterman
show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything
and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating,
Trump said he would find a good network marketing company
and get to work.
The audience started to hoot and boo him.
He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his
response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all
sitting out there!"

With network marketing you have two sources of income.

Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and
commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the
business.

Residual income is the secret of the wealthy.
It means investing time or money once and getting paid
again and again and again. In network marketing,
it also means getting paid for the work of others.

The enclosed information is something I almost let
slip through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I
re-read everything and gave some thought and study to it.

My name is Jonathan Rourke. Two years ago, the
corporation I worked at for the past twelve years
down-sized and my position was eliminated. After
unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own
business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen
financial problems. I owed my family, friends and
creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking
a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends
meet.
I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my
family and struggling business. AT THAT MOMENT something
significant happened in my life and I am writing to share
the experience in hopes that this will change your life
FOREVER FINANCIALLY!!!

In mid December, I received this program via e-mail.
Six month's prior to receiving this program,
I had been sending away for information on various
business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in
my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too
difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment
was too much for me to risk to see if they would work or not.
One claimed that I would make a million dollars in one year...
it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it!

But like I was saying, in December of 1997 I received
this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it,
they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK
GOODNESS FOR THAT !!!
After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading
it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes.

Here was a MONEY MAKING PHENOMENON.

I could invest as much as I wanted to start,
without putting me further into debt.
After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out,
I would at least get my money back.
But like most of you I was still a little skeptical
and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all.
So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office
(1-800-725-2161 24-hrs) and they confirmed that it is
indeed legal!
After determining the program was LEGAL and NOT A
CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT."

Initially I sent out 10,000 e-mails.
It cost me about $15 for my time on-line.
The great thing about e-mail is that I don't need any
money for printing to send out the program,
and because all of my orders are fulfilled via e-mail,
the only expense is my time. I am telling you like it
is, I hope it doesn't turn you off, but I promised myself
that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much money
it cost me.

In less than one week, I was starting to receive
orders for REPORT #1. By January 13, I had received 26
orders
for REPORT #1. Your goal is to "RECEIVE at least 20 ORDERS
FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE
PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!"
My first step in making $50,000 in 90 days was done. By
January 30, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2.
Your goal is to "RECEIVE AT LEAST 100+ ORDERS FOR
REPORT #2 WITHIN 2 WEEKS.
IF NOT, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU
HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE
YOUR $50,000 GOAL."
Well, I had 196 orders for REPORT #2, 96 more than I
needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 1, of my
e-mailing of 10,000, I received $58,000 with more coming
in every day.
I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new
car.
Please take time to read the attached program,
IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!!! Remember,
it won't work if you don't try it. This program does work,
but you must follow it EXACTLY!
Especially the rules of not trying to place your name
in a different place. It won't work, you'll lose out on a
lot of money!
In order for this program to work, you must meet your
goal of 20+ orders for REPORT #1, and 100+ orders for
REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in 90 days.
I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!!

If you choose not to participate in this program, I am
sorry. It really is a great opportunity with little cost or
risk to you. If you choose to participate, follow the
program and you will be on your way to financial security.

If you are a fellow business owner and are if financial
trouble like I was, or you want to start your own business,
consider this a sign. I DID!
Sincerely,

Jonathan Rourke

PS Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills
($58,000) look like piled up on a kitchen table? IT'S
AWESOME!

A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM:

By the time you have read the enclosed program and
reports, you should have concluded that such a program,
and one that is legal, could not have been created by an
amateur.

Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a
profitable business for 10 years. Then in 1979 my business
began falling off. I was doing the same things that were
previously successful for me, but it wasn't working.
Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy.
Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had
been with us since 1945.
I don't have to tell you what happened to the
unemployment rate...because many of you know from first
hand experience.
There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before.


The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they
were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not,
including those who never had anything to save or invest,
were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying
goes,
"THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER."
The traditional methods of making money will never allow
you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that.


You have just received information that can give you
financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK"
and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT."
You can make more money in the next few months than
you have ever imagined.

I should also point out that I will not see a penny of
this money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial
for this program. I have already made over 4 MILLION
DOLLARS!
I have retired from the program after sending out over
16,000 programs. Now I have several offices that make this
and several other programs here and over seas.

Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not
change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is
now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to
everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this
to may send out 50,000...and your name will be on everyone
of them!
Remember though, the more you send out the more potential
customers you will reach.

So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information,
materials and opportunity to become financially
independent,
IT IS UP TO YOU NOW!

************************************************************


"THINK ABOUT IT"
Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I
almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK
ABOUT IT.
Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU
participate.
Figure out the worst possible response and no matter
how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money!
You will
definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have
will vanish
when your first orders come in. IT WORKS!

Jody Jacobs, Richmond, VA

************************************************************


HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU
THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$

INSTRUCTIONS:

This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100%
EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $50,000
or more in the next 90 days.

Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program
carefully.
This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal
money making opportunity.
Basically, this is what you do: As with all
multi-level businesses,
we build our business by recruiting new partners and
selling our products.
Every state in the USA allows you to recruit new
multi-level business
partners, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar
sent.
YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL,
so you are not involved in personal selling.
You do it privately in your own home, store or office.

This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing
anywhere:

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below
(you can't sell them if you don't order them).

* For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME &
NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL AND
ADDRESS, YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem)
and
to the person whose name appears on the list next to the
report.

MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE
IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS!

* When you place your order, make sure you order
each of the four reports. You will need all four reports so

that you can save them on your computer and resell
them.

* Within a few days you will receive, via
e-mail, each of the four reports. Save them on your
computer so they
will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's
of people who will order them from you.

2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people
who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on
the list, in any way other than is instructed below in
steps "a"
through "f" or you will lose out on the majority of
your profits. Once you understand the way this works,
you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it.
Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it,
it will not work.

a. Look below for the listing of available
reports.

b. After you've ordered the four reports, take
this Advertisement and remove the name and address
under REPORT #4. This person has made it through the
cycle and is no doubt counting their $50,000!

c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down
to REPORT #4.

d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down
to REPORT #3.

e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down
to REPORT #2.

f. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1
position.

Please make sure you copy every name and address
ACCURATELY!

3. Take this entire letter, including the modified
list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO
changes to the Instruction portion of this letter.

Your cost to participate in this is practically
nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already
have an Internet Connection and e-mail is FREE!

To assist you with marketing your business on the internet,
the 4 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable
marketing information which includes how to send bulk
e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and
much, much more.

There are two primary methods of building your downline:

METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL

Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see
how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved
send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the
mailing receives a 0.5% response. Using a good list the
response could be much better.
Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of
programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this
example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.5% response,
that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people
respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of
20,000. Out of those 0.5%, 100 people respond and order
REPORT #2.
Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of
200,000. The 0.5% response to that is 1,000 orders for
REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a
2,000,000 total. The 0.5% response to that is 10,000 orders
for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 $5 bills for you. CASH!!!
Your total income in this example is
$50 + $500 + $5,000+ $50,000 for a total of $55,550!!!

REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF THE
2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND
TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD
HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS
INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that,
and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is
practically nothing. You obviously already
have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE !!!

REPORT #2 will show you the best methods for bulk
e-mailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail
software and where to obtain e-mail lists.

METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET

1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive,
and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise.
Let's say you decide to start small just to see how
well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 10 people to
participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads
on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.)
Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION
gets ONLY 10 downline members.

Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results
below:

1st level-your 10 members with $5.........$50
2nd level-10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).......$500
3rd level-10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000) $5,000
4th level-10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10k) $50,000

THIS TOTALS ---------------------------$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who
participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a
moment what would happen if they got 20 people to
participate! Most people get 100's of participants!

THINK ABOUT IT!

For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them
the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE
SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee
that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address
on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until
they receive the report!

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------

*** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME ***

Notes:

- ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT
CHEQUES NOT ACCEPTED
- ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL
- Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at
least two sheets of paper (IF NOT MORE SO THAT THE BILL
CAN'T BE SEEN AGAINST LIGHT)
- On one of those sheets of paper, include:
(a) the number & name of the report you are ordering,
(b) your e-mail address, and
(c) your name & postal address (as return address in case
the post office encounters problems).

PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW:
______________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on
the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:

Doug Teasdale
619 Hamilton unit C
Costa Mesa, CA 92627
______________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail
on the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

C.R. Kneeland
%P.O. Box 94
Prather, CA 93651
______________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the
Internet"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

David Robinson
43000 W Nine Mile Rd
Novi, MI 48375


______________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power
of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

Sam Laan
Box 25362,395 Wellington Rd South
London, ON Canada N6C 6B1

______________________________________________________

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS *******

* TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional,
and follow the directions accurately.

* Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have
them when the orders start coming in because:

When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the
requested product/report.

* ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU
RECEIVE.

* Be patient and persistent with this program. If you
follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE
SUCCESSFUL!

* ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL
SUCCEED!

******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES *******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within
two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until
you do.
Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at
least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue
advertising or sending e-mails until you do.

Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT
#2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working
for you, and the cash will continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list,
you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report.
You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which
report people are ordering from you. If you want to
generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or
continue placing ads and start the whole process again!
There is no limit to the income you will generate from
this business!

Before you make your decision as to whether or not you
participate in this program. Please answer one
question.....
DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE?
If the answer is yes, please look at the following
facts about this program:

1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT
COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE!

2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT
COST ANYTHING TO SHIP!

3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT
COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE!

4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET
AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO
DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE
WORLD!

5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR
INITIAL $20 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME!

6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE
FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT!

7. THIS PROGRAM WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER.

******* T E S T I M O N I A L S *******

This program does work, but you must follow it
EXACTLY!
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name
in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a
lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works.
It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy
money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to
participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on
your way to financial security.

Steven Bardfield, Portland, OR
************************************************************

My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody, and I live in Chicago,
IL.
I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation
and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I
grumbled to Jody about receiving "junk mail." I made fun
of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population
and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Jody
totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in
with both feet. I made merciless fun of
her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her
when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!
Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses.
Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills!
I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and
that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined
Jody in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until
retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for
me. We owe it all to MLM.

Mitchell Wolf MD., Chicago, IL
************************************************************

The main reason for this letter is to convince you
that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable,
and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time.
I was approached several times before I checked this out. I
joined just to see what one could expect in return for the
minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment,
I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money
still coming in.

Charles Morris, Esq.
************************************************************

Not being the gambling type, it took me several
weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But
conservative that I am, I decided that the initial
investment was so little that there was just no way that
I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get
my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my
medium-size post office box crammed with orders!
For awhile, it got so overloaded that I
had to start picking up my mail at the window.
I'll make more money this year than any 10
years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is
that it doesn't matter where people live. There simply
isn't a better investment with a faster return.

Paige Willis, Des Moines, IA
************************************************************

I had received this program before. I deleted it,
but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of
course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy,
so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program,
.11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this
one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!!

Violet Wilson, Johnstown, PA
***********************************************************

This is my third time to participate in this plan. We
have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach
and live off the interest on our money. The only way on
earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it.
For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up
this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending!

Kerry Ford, Centerport, NY
************************************************************


ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD
TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!

NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN
DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS
_______________________________________________________
FOR YOUR INFORMATION....
If you need help with starting a
business, registering a business name, learning how income
tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small
Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1-(800)827-5722
for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal
Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free
seminars about business tax requirements.
If you have any question of the legality of this
letter contact the Office of Associate Director for
Marketing Practices
Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in
Washington DC.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:14:13 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      temporary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I suppose it would depend on the location, but can
people live in temporary structure on private property
approximately indefinitely,legally? Does anyone know
off hand? This goes along with the campground-as-model
theme.


=====
dick_fischbeck@yahoo.comNo one fails.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:39:55 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Frontline: The Choice 2000 tonight
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to let you know that the excellent Frontline
documentary "The Choice 2000" is being shown again tonight
at 21:00 (that's 9:00 PM for those of you who still prefer
the ancient before-noon and after-noon sundial system.)

The show, which was first aired a few weeks ago, profiles
the lives of Governor George W. Bush and Vice President Al
Gore from their childhood through their college experience,
military service, business careers, and government service.

I highly recommend watching this program. It gave me a much
better understanding of who these gentlemen really were and
where they are coming from. And it's a great supplement to
the third and final presidential debate which is also on
tonight. If you only get to see one, watch the documentary!

I hope PBS is broadcasting it in all parts of the country.

Dexter Graphic
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:34:24 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      bipolar dysorder (was: I forgot !-)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   17-OCT-2000 10:34
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Ralph may be a gadfly, but he's qualified: he's a lawyer!
    seriously, I don't seem to be taken seriously, herein, as a self-
 professed follower of a former Quaker (who still says he's a Xian;
 maybe, he never practiced Quakerism, after leaving home, at all).
    anyway, knowing both of the preternatural frontrunners' background
 -- more than is let-on the media, by a long shot --
 makes me question the whole premise that they are much different.
 as a similar example, the idea that TR's appointment, Holmes,
 went against him; it may be, so, but TR's trust-busting went a long way
 on the part of the House of Morgan, an British bunch o'trustees;
 that was his bigest backing, of course.  (TR, of course,
 came out of his brief "retirement" to split the Lincoln Republicans,
 giving the office to the then-constituted Dems --
 the party of the Lost Cause; is this not the better reason,
 for the termlimit on the Presidency?)

 Nader should have run as a Democrat, the first time --
 not as "the candidate for the party that'd have me as a member."
 was his reticence on this, because he knew what'd happen to him?

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:36:54 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Discovery of armored viruses may inspire new designs for
              nanotechnology 9-00
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The outer coating of the HK97 virus: A multi-frequency geodesic dome!

 http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/00/virus920.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:45:54 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      self-aggrandize
MIME-Version: 1.0
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That people say Bucky was self aggrandizing is odd. A
main point he made was that everyone has direct access
to nature, and therefore, can have intuitions and
incited of the greatest magnitute. To miss that is to
miss synergetics. Not everyone will understand, but
everyone will benifit.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:30:14 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: self-aggrandize
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A lot of people were jealous of Fuller.  And a lot of people wanted to put
him down--any way they could--for various reasons.  A lot of people felt
threatened by him--rightly or wrongly.  You have to determine the motives
behind people's criticism of Fuller.  Very few people have contributed
honest criticism of his work.  Most of it has been dishonest.  A lot of
people have tried their best to just ignore him.  But his artifacts speak
for themselves.  Bucky was aware of all this.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 8:45 AM
Subject: self-aggrandize


> That people say Bucky was self aggrandizing is odd. A
> main point he made was that everyone has direct access
> to nature, and therefore, can have intuitions and
> incited of the greatest magnitute. To miss that is to
> miss synergetics. Not everyone will understand, but
> everyone will benifit.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:58:43 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      A Prodigious Molecule and Its Growing Pains
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Oct 10, 2000, New York Times article about Buckyballs:

 http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/10/science/10BUCK.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:56:47 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Glaring Omission
Comments: To: john.michalczyk@bc.edu
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Mr John Michalczyk, Department Chair
Fine Arts Department
Boston College
Chestnut Hill, MA, USA

Dear Sir,

How can your "Digital Archives of Architecture" have any credibility when
they have absolutely NO mention of R Buckminster Fuller and/or geodesic
domes??!!

Ref: http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/default.html

cc: Geodesic list and Geodesic newsgroup

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:21:31 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Liberal Christianity

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   20-OCT-2000  7:21
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 quoth CE:
  As for the constitution, might I suggest that it is a box that needs to
  be discarded. It was founded on racism, elitism, and outdated ideas.

 this is simply untrue, in that they were hardly outdated,
 at the time; are you saying, they're outdated, now?
    insofar as the 2 parties expect (expectorate upon?) us
 to vote for this pair of Wall Street dupes,
 the parties in deed are one, and we are the Manchurian Voters
 (because as awful of debaters that they are,
 from the about 3' (total) that I saw of all of the debates
 (in the last one), they have largely chosen their own programming .-)

 the connection between doctor J's times and our own,
 may not be simple, but it is clearly in the Platonic tradition,
 meeting with the Judaic one.  of course,
 are not these works still of relavence?

 thus quoth:
  like asking what Moses could tell us about particle physics. There is no
  simple connection between the social system of Jesus' time and our own.

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:32:01 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Emotional reactions to published critiques of Gore

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   20-OCT-2000  7:32
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, Nader has a huge organization in the schools
 -- there's a check-off on the registration card in the UC system e.g. --
 with which he could have forced himself into the primary debates.
    you'd think, for balance's sake, they'd have included the guy
 who was on the ballot (of 3 Dems) in CA (and 28 other states,
 I think) in the Times-LaOpinion/CNN debate in LA, but
 that'd have been a compleat dysaster for Gore,
 as far as his vaunted debating *skill* goes -- sheesh!
    indeed, Nader's initial call for the FEC debates was,
 all of them with federal matching-funds --well, Bush?-- but
 his pollstaticians, overnight, spun that into "5 polls over 5%,"
 clearly designed to exclude us, just as they always do
 with those polls.  I mean,
 Lyn's really the only one that could do justice to Ralph, but
 he could have at least been invited to moderate -- and set questions?
 (actually, probably Hagelin and Buke'd be fighting opponents,
 but Libertarians & their ilk would collapse into their own ignorace,
 I suppose .-)

 thus quoth:
  Could you restate your point more clearly?  I don't understand.

  > the fact that Nader did not run as a Democrat;
  > what does it say to you?
  >    please note that "instant run-off voting" is strictly "PR,"
  > since it is an oxymoron, that no-one has time to think
  > about the "changed geometry" of the situation!
  >
  > --Gush@
  > http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:07:24 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Liberal Christianity

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   20-OCT-2000  8:07
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I ain't condemining parties!
    what we condemn is the RNC and DNC leadership,
 in reverting whole-heartedly to the days of the Texas Jaybird Clubs,
 when the parties were simply private clubs, period,
 able to do just as they please (in that case,
 have an all-white club run the actual state Dem Party).
    what we've just seen in Michican & Arkansas
 -- as well as in the 96 primaries, which the case was brought against,
 as well as previous primaires, since 80 -- should
 be a fore-taste of elections to come, if any -- really!

 so, what are they?

 thus quoth:
  Mark gave only a few suggestive remarks on what he proposes would
  replace political parties. I am willing to listen to a more detailed
  vision, but, not more wresting of scripture.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:51:12 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: Dome Home For Sale
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <rowley@mail.telalink.net>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:42 PM
Subject: Dome Home For Sale
> ----------
> From: Dee_Riley@calcagni.com (Dee Riley)
> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:45:24 -0400
>
> Dome Enthusiast!
>
> I am Dee Riley from Calcagni Assciates Real Estate in Wallingford, CT.
> I HAVE THE PRIVLAGE OF LISTING A GEODESIC DOME HOME in the town of Durham,
> CT.
> Built in 1987, this Dome has approximately 4200 square feet of living
> space inside and
> a 3 car extra large detached garage all set atop a private acre.
> Three bedrooms and three full baths are built into this Dome Home!
>
> I wanted to reach Dome enthusiasts and ask for your assistance in finding
> a new owner for this terrific property.
> Please contact me by phone at 203.265.1821 x 341 if anyone knows of
> someone who may want to buy an existing Dome Home or knows how I can reach
> others who may be able to help.
>
> You can also view this property on our website: http://Calcagni.com  or on
the
> national REALTOR.COM under my associate, Joel Grossman.
>
> Thank you and I look forward to hearing from you!
>
> Dee Riley
> REALTOR
>
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
>       ========== Web: http://www.domegroup.org
>    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>  =============== To unsubscribe, write: unsubscribe DomeHome-H
> ================ and send to this address: requests@h19.hoflin.com
>
> ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:03:01 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      REALTOR.com Find a Home - Listing Detail
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Geodesic dome for sale, Durham, CT, USA:


http://www.realtor.com/FindHome/HomeListing.asp?frm=bymls&mls=centralct&lid=
N173373&nnv=on&src=offsim&gate=calcagni

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:58:36 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: field report
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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For additional refs & color pics about the Woods Hole dome see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-R.htm
(Scroll down to "Restaurants/Nautilus Motor Inn")

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <rowley@looknfeel.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 7:04 AM
Subject: field report


> Date:        10/20/00 11:49 PM
> From:        Ernie, wgd@gtwn.net
> To:          domegroup.org, DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>
> About the Woods Hole dome.
> Was built in 1953 and is the oldest geo-dome used for commercial purposes.
> E. Gunnar Peterson was the architect/builder.
> Size is 54 ft diameter, 27 ft tall
> The wood frame weighs 3.5 tons, is made from douglas fir, and was precut
> in shops at MIT in Cambrige.
> A major renovation was done in 1976. A housing wing (non-dome) was added
> and a cocktail lounge.
> The white fiberglass/paint stucco like covering on the dome exterior
> hides the frame work.  Unfortunately the inside structure is also
> covered up with an umbrella canopy/drapery. Detail drawings of the
> unusual dome structure and more info is in the [old] book Geodesics by
> Edward Popko.
> The dome is functioning as a restaurant open for special occasions,
> receptions, meetings etc. Owners are Jim & Gwyn Murray phone number
> 540-4132 in Woods Hole Mass. Did not see any other domes or dome homes
> on Cape Cod.

> Ernie
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
>       ========== Web: http://www.domegroup.org
>    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>  =============== To unsubscribe, write: unsubscribe DomeHome-H
> ================ and send to this address: requests@h19.hoflin.com
>
> ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:47:37 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Woods Hole Dome
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The correct URL for the Nautilus Motor Inn  restaurant is:
http://www.nautilusinn.com/dome.html

Also, some additional color pics at BFI are:
http://209.196.135.250/slideshtml/imag0022.htm
http://209.196.135.250/slideshtml/imag0023.htm
http://209.196.135.250/slideshtml/imag0024.htm

These are shots of the dome being test-assembled at the University of
Minnesota in 1952.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:21:11 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Newsletter_11
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Worldflower Garden Domes
N e w s l e t t e r  N o. 11
October 21, 2000
by Ernie Aiken
Georgetown, TX, USA

 http://www.gtwn.net/~wgd/nl/newsletter11.html

See especially "Link of the Month" at bottom of page: "Spherical Geodesic
Grids"

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:33:29 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Subscriber Opinion
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Carolyn,

For TONS of info re domes see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <rowley@looknfeel.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:56 AM
Subject: Subscriber Opinion


> Date:        10/23/00 1:31 AM
> From:        Cgbirk@aol.com
(snip)
> want to live in a dome home. And I try to find out everything I can about
> them (it's like a craving!!!), mostly from the internet. I have files on
my
> computer about domes as well as hard copies stored in files here at my
> desk (I bet I'm preaching to the choir here!). I enjoy reading this list
and
(snip)

> Carolyn
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:17:21 -0700
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day
Comments: To: UBtalk <UBtalk@Utalk.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Here is a quote from the Urantial mailing list which I'd like to share.

Random Quote for Mon Oct 23, 2000

  [2:7.10] The religious challenge of this age is to those farseeing
and forward-looking men and women of spiritual insight who will dare to
construct a new and appealing philosophy of living out of the enlarged
and exquisitely integrated modern concepts of cosmic truth, universe
beauty, and divine goodness. Such a new and righteous vision of
morality will attract all that is good in the mind of man and challenge
that which is best in the human soul. Truth, beauty, and goodness are
divine realities, and as man ascends the scale of spiritual living,
these supreme qualities of the Eternal become increasingly co-ordinated
and unified in God, who is love.
                Paper 2 Sec:7 Par:10 -- The Urantia Papers

For the full context of this quote please go to:
http://www.ubook.org/upapers/ubpaper002.html#P002_7_10


This, by the way, is what *I* have been trying to achieve for the last
twenty years: an integration of the highest philosophical achievements
of humankind (Ayn Rand's Objectivism, Buckminster Fuller's Anticipatory
Design Science, and political Libertarianism) with an epochal planetary
revelation from our superhuman (spiritual) universe government known as
the Urantia Papers. It's been quite a challenge! But rewarding: I feel
that I have been able to avail myself of the most progressive ideas in
world management and social evolution as well as experience the supreme
joy of faith assurance of eternal life in service partnership with God.

Dexter Graphic

<<<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>>>
"Worship is the technique of looking to the One for the
inspiration of service to the many." Jesus (U.P. 143:7:6)
<<<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>> <<< >>>>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:51:34 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET> wrote:
> Here is a quote from the Urantial mailing list which
> I'd like to share.
>
> Random Quote for Mon Oct 23, 2000
>
>   [2:7.10] The religious challenge of this age is to
> those farseeing
> and forward-looking men and women of spiritual
> insight who will dare to
> construct a new and appealing philosophy of living
> out of the enlarged
> and exquisitely integrated modern concepts of cosmic
> truth, universe
> beauty, and divine goodness. Such a new and
> righteous vision of
> morality will attract all that is good in the mind
> of man and challenge
> that which is best in the human soul. Truth, beauty,
> and goodness are
> divine realities, and as man ascends the scale of
> spiritual living,
> these supreme qualities of the Eternal become
> increasingly co-ordinated
> and unified in God, who is love.
>                 Paper 2 Sec:7 Par:10 -- The Urantia
> Papers
>
> For the full context of this quote please go to:
>
http://www.ubook.org/upapers/ubpaper002.html#P002_7_10
>
>
> This, by the way, is what *I* have been trying to
> achieve for the last
> twenty years: an integration of the highest
> philosophical achievements
> of humankind (Ayn Rand's Objectivism, Buckminster
> Fuller's Anticipatory
> Design Science, and political Libertarianism)

Dex- I have thought and written some about this
before. I do not understand how politics can be
relevant to CADS. Aren't they mutually exclusive?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 07:15:13 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   23-OCT-2000  7:15
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 ohmyGOD -- the Urantians are coming!
    this explains the grotesque hybrid of Ayn, Bucky and the Society
 of Mont Pelerin, I hope!

 sorry, but I had a run-in with Urantia about 10ya, and
 the arguments became quite juvenile, on my part -- of course,
 I was the junior arguee.  Urantia has absolutely nothing
 on Scientology, as far as elaborated cosmology goes-- oops;
 I meant, the opposite.  the only connection between any
 of the few Scientology tomes that I have skimmed,
 is probably subsumed in ElRon's vast SF (pulp) put-out, but
 I haven't read that, either; ignorance is bliss!
    sorry, again, but one should not get one's science
 from textbooks -- even those that are dictated
 by a sleeping engineer!

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 07:28:21 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] No Subject

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   23-OCT-2000  7:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow, I wish I could be particularly pained by this development,
 as an ongoing corporate takeover of Pacifica occurs.  however,
 "D,N!" is an explicitly *jacobin* programme,
 in terms of such just-mentioned coverage as in Timor, Myanmar,
 the cover-up of the nullification of the Voting Rights Act
 (in "Breaking With Convention:" with Nader's commentary etc.;
 the local Greens have tried to actually address this,
 then just shut the Hell, "up"), Peru and so on ad vomitorium.
    although I must side with the union against the Board and Schubb
 et al, the programme reflects the predominant outsourcing
 to such retrocolonial entities as Reuters/Yahoo!, Hollinger (i.e.
 in the use of the breathless cub-reporters of the Toronto Globe & Mail;
 can't Goodman note who is on the board of this vast conglomerate,
 "#0 in the USA" for newspapers?) etc.
    I gave up on influencing KPFK/Pacifica some time ago,
 after participating in several fundrives & pledging lots, but
 there's a very spooked attitude on the part of the necromarksists,
 toward Lyn and his rabid followers (tee-hee;
 I do not listen to the radio, esp.since KPCC was swallowed
 by MPR (and the Humphrey "Dem" Machine of the graincartels?)).

 thus quoth:
  pulled after we brought Ralph Nader into the Republican Convention
  to be interviewed and do color commentary.  Management's action

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:18:28 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "FreeUrantia (Norm Du Val)" <nduval@WCTA.NET>
Subject:      Re: UBtalk: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day
Comments: To: Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@prodigy.net>,
          UBtalk <UBtalk@utalk.org>, BCC News Group <dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOOEGDDPAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
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At 11:17 AM 10/23/00 -0700, Dexter Graphic wrote:
>Here is a quote from the Urantial mailing list which I'd like to share.
>
>Random Quote for Mon Oct 23, 2000
>
>  [2:7.10] The religious challenge of this age is to those farseeing
>and forward-looking men and women of spiritual insight who will dare to
>construct a new and appealing philosophy of living out of the enlarged
>and exquisitely integrated modern concepts of cosmic truth, universe
>beauty, and divine goodness. Such a new and righteous vision of
>morality will attract all that is good in the mind of man and challenge
>that which is best in the human soul.


Here is Urantia Foundation's "new and appealing philosophy" and "new and righteous vision of
morality:"

"Often problems are not solved; they are just outlived and become irrelevant."
 From Urantia Foundation's "SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT" Copyright 1999 Urantia Foundation

Norm.

"As devoted believers in the revelation, we can only pray the Trustees have been making unintentional errors answering the authorship question. Nothing could destroy the revelation's long-term success quicker than the original publisher giving sworn court testimony that The Urantia Book was authored by human sources. Imagine how discredited the revelation would appear when church leaders gave their congregations copies of Urantia Foundation's disclosures on authorship."
Mo Siegel, March, 1991  http://www.freeurantia.org
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<html>
At 11:17 AM 10/23/00 -0700, Dexter Graphic wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Here is a quote from the Urantial mailing list
which I'd like to share.<br>
<br>
Random Quote for Mon Oct 23, 2000<br>
<br>
&nbsp; [2:7.10] The religious challenge of this age is to those
farseeing<br>
and forward-looking men and women of spiritual insight who will dare
to<br>
construct a new and appealing philosophy of living out of the
enlarged<br>
and exquisitely integrated modern concepts of cosmic truth,
universe<br>
beauty, and divine goodness. Such a new and righteous vision of<br>
morality will attract all that is good in the mind of man and
challenge<br>
that which is best in the human soul. </blockquote><br>
<br>
Here is Urantia Foundation's &quot;new and appealing philosophy&quot; and
&quot;new and righteous vision of<br>
morality:&quot;<br>
<br>
<font size=2 color="#FF0000"><b>&quot;Often problems are not solved; they
are just outlived and become irrelevant.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;From Urantia Foundation's &quot;SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT&quot;
Copyright 1999 Urantia Foundation<br>
<br>
</b></font>Norm.<br>
<br>

<font size=1 color="#FF0000"><b>&quot;As devoted believers in the
revelation, we can only pray the Trustees have been making unintentional
errors answering the authorship question. Nothing could destroy the
revelation's long-term success quicker than the original publisher giving
sworn court testimony that The Urantia Book was authored by human
sources. Imagine how discredited the revelation would appear when church
leaders gave their congregations copies of Urantia Foundation's
disclosures on authorship.&quot;<br>
Mo Siegel, March, 1991&nbsp;
</font><a href="http://www.freeurantia.org/" eudora="autourl"><font size=2 color="#0000FF">http://www.freeurantia.org</a></font></b></html>

--=====================_7988566==_.ALT--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:38:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Water People
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see how white you are and wonder what ship you came on.

Joe S Moore wrote:

> In _Critical Path_ Fuller talks about the Water People sailing around
> the Earth for several thousands of years.  A person named Gunnar
> Thompson has done quite a bit of research about the world's
> Sailor-Navigators.  See: _Nu Sun: Asian-American Voyages, 500
> BC_Pioneer Publishing Co, Fresno, CA, USA1989 (Out of Print)
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

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see how white you are and wonder what ship you came on.
<p>Joe S Moore wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<b><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=+2>In
_Critical Path_ Fuller talks about the Water People sailing around the
Earth for several thousands of years.&nbsp; A person named Gunnar Thompson
has done quite a bit of research about the world's Sailor-Navigators.&nbsp;
See:</font></font></font></b>&nbsp;<b><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=+2>_Nu
Sun: Asian-American Voyages, 500 BC_</font></font></font></b><b><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=+2>Pioneer
Publishing Co, Fresno, CA, USA</font></font></font></b><b><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=+2>1989
(Out of Print)</font></font></font></b>&nbsp;
<br><b><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=-1>Joe S Moore: <a href="mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</a></font></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Times New Roman"><font size=-1>Buckminster Fuller Virtual
Institute: <a href="http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</a></font></font></b></blockquote>

</body>
</html>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Oct 2000 04:11:11 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day
In-Reply-To:  <20001023185134.13628.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
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> > This, by the way, is what *I* have been trying to
> > achieve for the last
> > twenty years: an integration of the highest
> > philosophical achievements
> > of humankind (Ayn Rand's Objectivism, Buckminster
> > Fuller's Anticipatory
> > Design Science, and political Libertarianism)
>
> Dex- I have thought and written some about this
> before. I do not understand how politics can be
> relevant to CADS. Aren't they mutually exclusive?
>
> Dick

I see all of these working together but on different
levels--as seen from different perspectives you could
say. Some people think in terms of abstract philosophy,
some in societal politics (creative forms of community
organization really), some serve God through physical
life-support engineering and management, and others
work for the spiritual liberation of each individual.

Just as there are bad and unprincipled engineers,
there are bad and unprincipled political activists and
bad and unprincipled religionists. But this does not
diminish the significance of these respective fields.
We *need* philosophical structures, legal structures,
and physical structures to function within. But each
must evolve to meet the challenges of advancing life.

I think Bucky integrated human experience in each of
these areas. (As we all do.) Our life purpose is to
achieve perfect integration with the Universe (God)
on all possible levels--body, mind, and spirit. And
this is just the beginning of our eternal adventure!

Dexter Graphic
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:23:22 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Aren't they mutually exclusive?
> >
> > Dick
>
> I see all of these working together but on different
> levels--as seen from different perspectives you
> could
> say. Some people think in terms of abstract
> philosophy,
> some in societal politics (creative forms of
> community
> organization really), some serve God through
> physical
> life-support engineering and management, and others
> work for the spiritual liberation of each
> individual.


Can't we leave religion out of science for now? Bucky
said 'Universe' for some reason. I can discuss nature,
on problem. What else is there to discuss?


> Just as there are bad and unprincipled engineers,
> there are bad and unprincipled political activists
> and
> bad and unprincipled religionists. But this does not
> diminish the significance of these respective
> fields.
> We *need* philosophical structures, legal
> structures,
> and physical structures to function within. But each
> must evolve to meet the challenges of advancing
> life.

Nature does not recognize good and bad as far as I can
tell.

> I think Bucky integrated human experience in each of
> these areas. (As we all do.) Our life purpose is to
> achieve perfect integration with the Universe (God)
> on all possible levels--body, mind, and spirit. And
> this is just the beginning of our eternal adventure!
>
> Dexter Graphic

I will stick with science, as much as I can.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:22:29 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day
In-Reply-To:  <20001024152322.22370.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Dick Fischbeck
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 08:23
>
> > > Aren't they mutually exclusive?
> >
> > I see all of these working together but on different
> > levels--as seen from different perspectives you could
> > say. Some people think in terms of abstract philosophy,
> > some in societal politics (creative forms of community
> > organization really), some serve God through physical
> > life-support engineering and management, and others
> > work for the spiritual liberation of each
> > individual.
>
> Can't we leave religion out of science for now? Bucky
> said 'Universe' for some reason. I can discuss nature,
> on problem. What else is there to discuss?

Here's what:  Why is it that seemingly intelligent people
reject the facts and pursue shortsighted policies of
selfish exploitation which wreaks worldwide destruction
and endless human suffering? It's people's philosophies
and spiritual attitudes which are responsible for their
life decisions.

Showing people that we can all live at a much higher
standard through intelligent design and considerate
cooperation, as Bucky and others have done, has no effect
until there is a spiritual rebirth and a philosophical
reorientation similar to the one Mr. Fuller experienced.

Quoting again from the Urantia Papers:
http://www.ubook.org/upapers/ubpaper130.html#P130_6_1

"And when you become so readjusted to life within
yourself, you become likewise readjusted to the
universe; you have been born again -- born of the
spirit -- and henceforth will your whole life become
one of victorious accomplishment. Trouble will
invigorate you; disappointment will spur you on;
difficulties will challenge you; and obstacles will
stimulate you. And then, forthwith, will this faith
vanquish fear of men by the compelling presence of
that new and all-dominating love of your fellows
which will so soon fill your soul to overflowing
because of the consciousness which has been born in
your heart that you are a child of God."


> > Just as there are bad and unprincipled engineers,
> > there are bad and unprincipled political activists and
> > bad and unprincipled religionists. But this does not
> > diminish the significance of these respective fields.
> > We *need* philosophical structures, legal structures,
> > and physical structures to function within. But each
> > must evolve to meet the challenges of advancing life.
>
> Nature does not recognize good and bad as far as I can
> tell.

Human beings are part of nature and *we* recognize them.
Goodness is the desire to relate to others in such a way
as to maximize their--and our--creativity. Discovering
the laws of nature and integrating our lives with them is
one of the highest expressions of creativity, I believe.


> > I think Bucky integrated human experience in each of
> > these areas. (As we all do.) Our life purpose is to
> > achieve perfect integration with the Universe (God)
> > on all possible levels--body, mind, and spirit. And
> > this is just the beginning of our eternal adventure!
>
> I will stick with science, as much as I can.

Science is the systematic exploration and identification
of reality. Ayn Rand considered herself a "scientist" in
the realm of human cognition and human economic ordering.
The Urantia Papers portray the sincere religious seeker
as a "scientist" searching for ultimate universe reality.

Science is great but I'm sure that every scientist also
recognizes the existence of truth, beauty, and goodness
in their lives. These values are the prime focus of the
philosopher, the artist, and the religionist. Everyone
pursues that which they cherish the most. And each of us
contributes what we can to human progress and edification.

Dexter Graphic
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:26:35 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: UBtalk: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day
In-Reply-To:  <4.3.2.7.2.20001023131523.00bbf8a0@wcta.net>
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Why do you think this guy's reply to my post got through to Geodesic?
I know that he is not subscribed to this list because I asked him.  -Dex
  -----Original Message-----
  From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
[mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of FreeUrantia (Norm Du
Val)
  Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 13:18
  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
  Subject: Re: UBtalk: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the Day


  At 11:17 AM 10/23/00 -0700, Dexter Graphic wrote:

    Here is a quote from the Urantial mailing list which I'd like to share.

    Random Quote for Mon Oct 23, 2000

      [2:7.10] The religious challenge of this age is to those farseeing
    and forward-looking men and women of spiritual insight who will dare to
    construct a new and appealing philosophy of living out of the enlarged
    and exquisitely integrated modern concepts of cosmic truth, universe
    beauty, and divine goodness. Such a new and righteous vision of
    morality will attract all that is good in the mind of man and challenge
    that which is best in the human soul.


  Here is Urantia Foundation's "new and appealing philosophy" and "new and
righteous vision of
  morality:"

  "Often problems are not solved; they are just outlived and become
irrelevant."
   From Urantia Foundation's "SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT" Copyright 1999
Urantia Foundation

  Norm.

  "As devoted believers in the revelation, we can only pray the Trustees
have been making unintentional errors answering the authorship question.
Nothing could destroy the revelation's long-term success quicker than the
original publisher giving sworn court testimony that The Urantia Book was
authored by human sources. Imagine how discredited the revelation would
appear when church leaders gave their congregations copies of Urantia
Foundation's disclosures on authorship."
  Mo Siegel, March, 1991  http://www.freeurantia.org

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        charset="us-ascii"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D320432200-25102000>Why do=20
you think this guy's reply to my post got through to Geodesic?=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D320432200-25102000>I know=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D320432200-25102000>that </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D320432200-25102000>he is not subscribed to =
this&nbsp;list=20
because I asked him.&nbsp; -Dex</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> List for the =
discussion of=20
  Buckminster Fuller's works =
[mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]<B>On=20
  Behalf Of </B>FreeUrantia (Norm Du Val)<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, =
October 23,=20
  2000 13:18<BR><B>To:</B> =
GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  Re: UBtalk: FW: Random Urantial Quote of the =
Day<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>At 11:17=20
  AM 10/23/00 -0700, Dexter Graphic wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">Here is a quote from the Urantial =
mailing list=20
    which I'd like to share.<BR><BR>Random Quote for Mon Oct 23,=20
    2000<BR><BR>&nbsp; [2:7.10] The religious challenge of this age is =
to those=20
    farseeing<BR>and forward-looking men and women of spiritual insight =
who will=20
    dare to<BR>construct a new and appealing philosophy of living out of =
the=20
    enlarged<BR>and exquisitely integrated modern concepts of cosmic =
truth,=20
    universe<BR>beauty, and divine goodness. Such a new and righteous =
vision=20
    of<BR>morality will attract all that is good in the mind of man and=20
    challenge<BR>that which is best in the human soul. =
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Here=20
  is Urantia Foundation's "new and appealing philosophy" and "new and =
righteous=20
  vision of<BR>morality:"<BR><BR><FONT color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D2><B>"Often problems=20
  are not solved; they are just outlived and become =
irrelevant."<BR>&nbsp;From=20
  Urantia Foundation's "SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT" Copyright 1999 =
Urantia=20
  Foundation<BR><BR></B></FONT>Norm.<BR><BR><FONT color=3D#ff0000 =
size=3D1><B>"As=20
  devoted believers in the revelation, we can only pray the Trustees =
have been=20
  making unintentional errors answering the authorship question. Nothing =
could=20
  destroy the revelation's long-term success quicker than the original =
publisher=20
  giving sworn court testimony that The Urantia Book was authored by =
human=20
  sources. Imagine how discredited the revelation would appear when =
church=20
  leaders gave their congregations copies of Urantia Foundation's =
disclosures on=20
  authorship."<BR>Mo Siegel, March, 1991&nbsp; </FONT><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.freeurantia.org/" eudora=3D"autourl"><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>http://www.freeurantia.org</A></FONT></B> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:01:28 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Rowing Shell
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Fuller's Dymaxion Rowing Shell for sale ($15,000 !!!!!!!!)

 http://www.solwaygallery.com/Pages/specifications.html

Carl Solway Gallery
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 25 Oct 2000 06:16:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: The Nation Poll Watch

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   25-OCT-2000  6:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 nah; in the tradition of TR,
 Nader is trying to split the party, to give it
 to the favored (oligarchically) candidate (this time,
 the "Republican," instead of the Boll Weevil).
    although the Dem Party Platform is rife with Green boilerplate
 (itself having been transformed "progressively" over the years,
 a la TR's helming of the nascent Progressives, sort-of, then), and
 Nader could have been very effective in challenging the Dems
 with his own Green rhetoric (he's on a check-off
 on the registration cards of uncounted (by me) state university systems),
 and the anti-corporate line, now,
 the difference is that, there is so *little* difference
 between the 2 sides --it's more for show-- esp. since
 Clinton didn't veto the Financial Servises Modernization Act of'999!

 the "pollwatch" is the problem, because the president has dematerialized --
 the office of, has.  the DLC/DNC platform is wholly inadequate
 to win Congress, although it might hold the line; in deed,
 it seems to have been fashioned for little else,
 no matter how consciously: polls, damn polls & no turn-out!

 thus quoth:
  of Texas columnist Molly Ivins. Her rule: Vote with your heart where you
  can, and vote with your head where you must. In states where either Gore
  or Bush has a commanding lead, vote Nader. In the states too close to
  call, vote Gore. In either case,the imperative is to end Republican
  control in Congress by electing Democrats, also vital to the prospects
 for
  progressive change."

  You can read this editorial in its entirety at:

  http://www.thenation.com

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:56:46 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Energy Grid
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Fuller's proposed Global Energy Distribution Network:

 http://www.geni.org/geni97/graphics/dymax.jpg

G.E.N.I.
San Diego, CA, USA

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:59:48 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      on the radio (not)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   25-OCT-2000 12:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 folks, I hate to get anyone to tip-over into apathy (although
 I consider voting for Gush (or Ralph) to be such (heh-heh)), that
 they have us 720 degrees surrounded (a full Otto cycle,
 the corner-angles of a tetragon (tetrahedron), or
 a "double-covering" of a sphere (in sterradians ("solid" angle-measure))),
 but I have just been snubbed by the local "anglo elite," as described
 in a sort of doomsday interview with Warren O. of KCRW.
    at last night's Council meeting, I actually congratulated him
 for his new national (NPR/PRI/ArmedForces/etc.) programme-- I mean,
 I also thanked him, for finally noting the nullification
 of the VRA o'65 -- in advance, I suppose.
    unfortunately, for reasons as yet unknown,
 the meeting was not broadcast, as normally from 3 to midnight.  of course,
 from many prior occassions, "the City knew" that I was going to speak,
 perhaps extensively, on the second item of the night,
 which was a long "special presentataion" on the deregulation
 of electricity, and thet City's moves to avert um Warren's scenario?...
 no, to be "proactive" and ultra-green, at the same time.
    as a matter of record (if it was broadcast on City TV, as well
 as an (only-live) streaming video on the Net),
 I did quote a paragraph or two from some thing
 that I'd just written, showing many of the precedents
 for the phoney deregulation scamsters -- as Nader and I both referred
 to the "green-e" program out of the Gorbachov Foundation
 (in El Presidio), but for somewhat different reasons.
    (I'm not saying, he was lying !-)

 so, in the last version of the paper, I appended a flash about this,
 ending in "on the couch with Warren "A-day" O.?" --
 which was taken from the LATimes Mag. mini-interview.

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:53:34 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Thou shalt not consume more than thee needs

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   26-OCT-2000  7:53
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 let me again stress, Bore...Gush are both fully dematerialized presidents,
 in the sense that they have both inherited a co-presidency,
 whichever wins - and may as well run the two together, or
 the four of them, or what ever (with Nader
 as the Secretary of Refurbished Corsairs .-)
    as for the WFN, Gore is a distant protege of Philip (Consort
 to Betty), the founder of the WFN with the Nazi Prince Bernhard.
 "carrying capacity" is a non-remediable term, in that
 its basic premise is population reduction, the quicker, the better
 (or Zero Population, as befits the quote of Phil,
 "wish, I could be reincarnated as a fatal virus,"
 or Lord Russel's, "means frightful, as they are necessary").
    as for Shrub, the Bushes have always been entirely blue-blooded snobs,
 tending their pedigree to Betty!

 thus quoth:
  Report," www.panda.org/livingplanet/lpr00/ , by the World Wide Fund for
  Nature which also finds that "today's levels of economic activity" are
  "30% above" our planet's carrying capacity. From another perspective

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/AObook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:08:37 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Chromium 6 (New Times cover)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   26-OCT-2000  8:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Dear Editor;
    I hate to side with the Tennessee good ol'boy (for Gore) David Freeman,
 but you have blown hexavalent chromium to Hollywood proportions, and
 at the behest of that industry.  Where the story falls down
 to its knees to thte Greenies, is in the elusive "studies" of mice.
    unfortunately, as with most other such single-toxin studies,
 they're based upon the "linear no-threshold standard,"
 which flat-out assumes that *all* doses, below any
 of the cancerous data-points (on the graph) are toxic -- although
 this is generally untrue.
    there is still very little data to freak-out over, so, stop!

 --Brian Quincy Hutchings
   3032 Exposition Blvd. #C
   Santa Monca 90404
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:54:35 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Bush and Russia

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   27-OCT-2000  9:54
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 hi, John, here, and I'd like to welcome you
 to our weekly meeting of the Venice Manchurian Voters Anonymous!
    we always like to start with our "countdown to sanity," so
 let's express straight into it:
 10,
 9,
 8,
 7,
 6 <chuckle>,
 5,
 FOUR,
 THREE,
 T W O ,
 ONE --
 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,
 haha --
 minus one,
 minus two,
 minus three.

 OK, good fun on the campaign trail here - I mean,
 for all of us recovering politicians -- hey, Mayor Jerry!

 OK. hello, again; I'm John, and I am powerless before the poll-takers!

 (beach brethren & sistren: I AM POWERLESS BEFORE THE POLL-TAKERS.)

 our first "confessor" is Ralph, who has a little "NOTA"
 on the subject of sanity -- before he became a member
 of "you have the right to third PARTY," and
 a well-known Manchurian Candidate.  nice to see you, again, sober, Ralph!

 (applause)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:30:56 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Lesson Plans
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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If anybody has any lesson plans about Buckminster Fuller and/or geodesic
domes, please email them to:

Kathy Schrock's Guide for Educators
The Discovery School.com
kathy@kathyschrock.net

(Ref: http://school.discovery.com/schrockguide/edles.html )

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:25:50 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      International Space Station - Service Module
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A scientifically designed, self-contained, portable house called the "Zvezda
Service Module" (built by Russia):

 http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/assembly/elements/sm/

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:22:42 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Geometrica De Mexico
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>From the Ministry of Labour, Ontario, Canada:

"Geometrica De Mexico S.A. De C.V. ("Geometrica"), a Mexican company that
constructs geodesic domes, was fined $150,000 on Sept. 24, 1999 for a
violation of the Occupational Health and Safety Act that resulted in the
death of one of its workers."

 http://www.gov.on.ca/LAB/ann/99-37e.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:25:02 -0800
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Project Gutenberg (3000 free texts online by year's end)
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This is Project Gutenberg's Newsletter for Wednesday, October 4,
2000 (E-texts Readable By Both Humans and Computers Since Before
The Internet.)  http://www.gutenberg.net/

Books Index update from #2,841 through #2,981.
WE ARE HOPING TO POST ETEXT #3000 BY NEXT MONTH'S NEWSLETTER

With 2940 eTexts online it now takes an average of 100,000,000
readers gaining a nominal value of $3.40 from each book, for
Project Gutenberg to have given away $1,000,000,000,000 [One
Trillion Dollars] in books. 100,000,000 readers is one to two
percent of the world's population!

This "cost" is down from $3.48 when we had 2870 Etexts on September 3
This "cost" is down from $3.55 when we had 2820 Etexts on August 16
This "cost" is down from $3.60 when we had 2775 Etexts on August 2
This "cost" is down from $3.70 when we had 2650 Etexts in July
This "cost" is down from $3.77 when we had 2650 Etexts in June
This "cost" is down from $3.92 when we had 2550 Etexts in May
This "cost" is down from $4.00 when we had 2500 Etexts in April

Can you imagine each one of thousands of books reduced by 60 cents???
Just from one spring to the next fall???

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sticking my neck out a little here, and setting the bar for
December at 60 Etexts, instead of our official 50. . .so we will
be able to get to #3000 by the end of the year 2000. . . .

So, if you have an Etext in mind to do, NOW would be a great time
to get rolling on it.

The Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation finally got a
few donations in the mail. . .so things are in place and working.

Presently, contributions are only being solicited from people in:
Texas, Nevada, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, South Dakota,
Iowa, Indiana, and Vermont. As the requirements for other states
are met, additions to this list will be made and fund raising
will begin in the additional states. These donations should be
made to the "Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation" and
mailed to:

Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation
PMB 113
1739 University Ave.
Oxford, MS 38655

----------------------------------------------------------------

"Life is an open-book test, and there is no time limit."

There is no end to the great things we can accomplish if we
don't worry about who gets the credit. - Anon.

Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

"Only wimps use backup: _real_ men just upload their
important stuff on FTP, and let the rest of the world mirror
it ;)" - Linus Torvalds

"Life is no brief candle to me. It is a sort of splendid torch
which I have got hold of for the moment, and I want to make it
burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future
generations." - George Bernard Shaw

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not
simpler. - Albert Einstein

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"Love all men as I have loved you; serve your fellow mortals
as I have served you. Freely you have received, freely give."
(Jesus, The Urantia Papers, 193.0.5)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:00:25 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Swing States Headache

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   30-OCT-2000 12:00
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Marks' desperate plea for us "not to believe them,"
 when Gore and Bush are plainly such twin candidates
 of Wall Street -- for lack of a clearer characterization,
 than the banality of the ideology of "trade is freedom" --
 is belied by Gore's procurement of a place in the Administration
 for Dick Morris and his triangulation (see Stephanopoulos' memoir),
 his insistence to trash welfare, and so on.
    But, the worst harbinger occurred *before* the Convention,
 on March 27th, when the Supreme Court agreed with Gore's lawyer,
 in a case brought back in '96, that
 the Voting Rights Act of 1965 is unconstitutional (in accord
 with Sentelle's 3-judge panel, by not hearing the appeal) --
 a bizarre ruling on an insane argument from the DNC.  However,
 no-one heard of this, with the result that all state and
 national parties are free to go hog-wild with their by-laws
 (the Act required any changes to be reviewed by a federal Court) --
 which they've been doing, with teh 527 Cmtes., especially
 after the President caved-into knocking the Depression-era firewalls out,
 between banks, brokers and insurers, by signing the Financial Services
 Modernization Act of '99.  So,
 the Dem Congressional races had even pulled ahead of the funding
 for the GOP ones, for the first time, this summer!
    Marks pulls us in with Nader's backing by Arab orgs in Michigan,
 but fails to note any results of the Dem Primary, there (essentially,
 only available on "MEL" -- and not on the Hubert Humphrey College site).
 Although that is an extreme example,
 the get-out-the-vote for the primary was similarly lame,
 in most states, because of the hubris of pretending that
 there really was no primary.  The Republicans did not have
 to go this far, to assure a Bush Primary victory (or maybe they did,
 but the outrageous lack of reporting on the rather covert "life story"
 of these 3 generations of Skull and Bones, is very disturbing ... or,
 is Lieberman its first Orthodox -- or Jewish -- member?)
    Please, please, please -- I plea, myself --
 support Rep. Mel Watt's Voting Rights Clarification Act of 2000
 (brought to the floor on July 26th, to flank the Court's racist decision);
 further, theonly real hope exists,
 in getting a strong majority of Democrats into Congress,
 to take the agenda away from either of these turkeys (and
 the pathetic, populist Nader), but this can only be done
 on an FDR-style platform, not the milktoast loaf
 of the DNC/DLC.  That is, HR-4961 is a part
 of the FDR-PAC's package of extent Congressional and state legislation,
 which was created with the Ad Hoc Democratic Platform Hearings
 of June (which finally prompted the DNC to hold some quick,
 super-scripted "hearing," which they weren't going to do):
 see http://www.larouchespeaks.com!

 --Brian Quincy Hutchings
   3032 Exposition Blvd #C
   Santa Monica  90404
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:05:36 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Swing States Headache

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   30-OCT-2000 12:05
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  SUBJECT: Re: [Q-P] What coalition?
  MESSAGE   from =r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.U 30-OCT-20 10:46
  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   30-OCT-2000  7:07
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   curiously, for Nader's upcomign Long Beach rally,
   one of the few headliners for him is one Michel Shocked,
   a rock singer whose name seems to be a stage-homonym
   for Schacht, as in Hjalmar Schact;
   why was this person added to such a short list?
      (whether she's the grandchild of Schacht is probably unimportant,
   in and of itself, regarding one of those who escaped trials
   of Nuremberg, completely; I'm sure she doesn't share his views, although
   her music may reflect his outrageous, malthusian policies.)

   if you see the British press's slams of Gore (although
   I'm thinking of the over-the-top nastiness of an editorail
   in *The Spectator*, which seemed to lie without remorse),
   you have to wonder, Why?

   --Gush@
   http://www.tarpley.net/29crash.htm

   PS: the UNIPCC is an awful organ of "concensus" science,
   which is *not* science.  "global" warming is simply not seen,
   anywhere but in the computerized simulacra
   -- just take the USDA's hardiness zone maps, over the years,
   as a simple proof of this -- although
   there probably is *equatorial* warming.

   mourn for scientists!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:20:12 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Search Stats
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For your information, a search engine called "Raging"
(http://ragingsearch.altavista.com/) found the following hits:

"Buckminster Fuller".....11,399
"synergetics".....................6,062
"geodesic dome".............4,814
"dymaxion"........................2,326
"tensegrity structures".......139
"vector equilibrium"..............99
"octet truss"............................61
"constant zenith projection"..4
"aspension".............................4

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:34:41 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] What coalition? Stop Global Warming Bush.

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   31-OCT-2000  6:34
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Nader is going to foam at the mouth over "Trebla REGO's" sale
 of Teapot Dome to Occidental -- with 2-trillion cubic feet
 of natural gas to be outfitted with generators,
 for the deregulated CA market -- and
 some gigantic 527 Cmte. is going to broadcast it 24x7x52, or
 until the election is over.
    there are 3 phases of oil exploitation:
 fossilization [*], Bore, Gush, and Nadir!...  in pursuit
 of the giant energy financing, they all have planks
 for ratifying the 'Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto,' because
 *none* of them have any plank on nuclear power (only for solar
 and conservation; they all, do); that is to ask,
 Qui bono?

 as for overall or "global" warming,
 this is a very old & outmoded "model," circa 1896 (Svente Ahrrenius),
 which is obviously wrong (in the first place) because
 of the differential of insolation.  nevermind,
 that all of the computer-jockeys use it as the basis;
 there are too-many "empirical" data-sets that flatly (oops) oppose it
 (such as the just-mentioned Hardiness Zone Maps of the USDA,
 taken chronologically -- but who'd do that ?-)
    Gore is not a scientist, but a rabidly malthusian environmentalist,
 who will certainly go great guns to reduce glass-house gasses
 -- except for the ones from volcanoes, I suppose --
 by Diocletian edict (regardless of the weather).

 * Sic; Madison Avenue's most-successful tool,
 the repeated-to-brain-death oxymoron;
 the "zeroeth step" remains to be found!...  (actually,
 it was Elk Hills, the other part of the NPR,
 whose sweet oil reserves were cashiered-out to Arm& Hammer's gang;
 close-enough for Regovernment work, though !-)

 thus quoth:
  Bush doesn't even seem to recognize global warming is a problem, much
 less
  make it a priority.  Global warming doesn't seem to be high on Nader's
  current list of issues.

 --Gush@
 http://www.tarpley.net/29crash.htm