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Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 00:00:01 -0800
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Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

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 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
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                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
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Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:20:05 +0800
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From:         M <callum2v@MS15.HINET.NET>
Subject:      sum of the angles
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I  seem  to  remember  reading  in  a  Bucky  book,  that the sum of the
angles  of  a polygon  equals...

DO  any of  us  have the formula  or  an url pointing  to the  basic
math?


Thanks  for  the  toys.
My  kids (and  I)  will have  hours  of  fun (and  learning.  )


Malcolm
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Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:12:58 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
In-Reply-To:  <200102282054.f1SKs2U11604@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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Page 152:In a right isoceles triangle the
interatractive force between bodies is twice that of
the same two bodies one hypotenuse apart . Why?


--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 28-FEB-2001 12:54
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  hey, Dick;
>  what is the Snyder-Fuller Law, in Cosmography,
> please?
>
>  thus quoth:
>   Bucky out of obscurity. Persistence must be a part
> of
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>  http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:38:25 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Looking for dome dweller to interview
Comments: To: imber@maniform.com

David,

For a very brief overview of Fuller's ideas please see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Strategy/GrandStrategy.htm

For more details see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/1Idea.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

"David G. Imber" <imber@maniform.com> wrote in message
news:3a9aad86.6286836@news.i-2000.com...
> Hello:
>
> Please forgive my unfamiliarity with this news group and its
> regular manners and procedures (if such exist).
>
> I write for a Japanese architecture and design magazine
> called Casa BRUTUS.
>
> I'm currently researching a feature on R. Buckminster Fuller.
> Specifically, I'm interested in his geodesic domes as dwellings.
>
> I'm  located in New York City, and will shortly fly up to
> Montreal to photograph the Biosphere there. But the magazine is
> even more interested in making contact with some ordinary (or
> extraordinary) individuals who just happen to live in a geodesic
> dome. We'd like to photograph their home and interview them about
> the experience of living in such a structure.
>
> If you live in the northeast and fit this profile, or can refer me
> to someone who does, I'd be very grateful to speak with you.
>
> Thank you very much for your time.
>
> DGI
> ********************************
>          David G. Imber
>    Maniform Creative Services
>      http://www.maniform.com
>
> ********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:37:26 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      Bucky page and other new page
Comments: To: "Geodesic Listserve GEODESIC"@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Mime-version: 1.0
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Hi, There's a new Bucky page at Tetworld:
http://members.tripod.com/tetgame.html

and a newly designed home page:  http://www.tetworld.org

Thanks,
mark
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:02:01 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001  5:02
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that's it?

 thus quoth:
 Page 152:In a right isoceles triangle the
  interatractive force between bodies is twice that of
  the same two bodies one hypotenuse apart . Why?

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:04:51 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001  5:04
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that's in Euclid, some where.

 you should construct the solution, you bad boy,
 using the exterior angles of the polyga (and/or
 by induction on a few: trigon, tetragon, pentagon etc.,
 although that won't prove it !-)

 hint: n = number of agnles (or sides .-)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:11:23 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: live **** or die?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001  5:11
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I should have put,
 "nor [the Court's] earlier deal with 'JR' Gore,"
 which was utterly blacked-out by the media
 (I know of no example of its reporting, other than
 in our own candidate's paper; e-gadz !-)
    as dor internet voting,
 it seems like a needless supervention of a state's mandate
 to see to its own voters;
 it opens the process up to anyone on the net,
 which is rather strange; eh?

 thus quoth:
    "there really ought to be a great dystinction
     between apportionment, perhaps, and actual voting"

  and how does it relate to what I (or Scalia) wrote?

  As for "i-voting," I assume you're talking about
  voting via the Internet.  I haven't studied the
  subject, but from what I've seen it seems to me
  there are a few things to be concerned about, not

 >--Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >>http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:08:32 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
In-Reply-To:  <200103011302.f21D21p15267@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Is this a test??

--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 01-MAR-2001  5:02
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  that's it?
>
>  thus quoth:
>  Page 152:In a right isoceles triangle the
>   interatractive force between bodies is twice that
> of
>   the same two bodies one hypotenuse apart . Why?
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:26:14 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
In-Reply-To:  <200103011302.f21D21p15267@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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He says, "With the forgoing alloying interaugmentation
of omnisymmetrical vectorial omniintertriangulated
constellar system structuring, we can well appreciate
the multifold increase in system cohesiveness that is
occasioned by the introduction of only one more atomic
sphere M at the center of our quasicubical,
comprehensive, alloying system, as can be seen in Fig.
6.28."

--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 01-MAR-2001  5:02
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  that's it?
>
>  thus quoth:
>  Page 152:In a right isoceles triangle the
>   interatractive force between bodies is twice that
> of
>   the same two bodies one hypotenuse apart . Why?
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:56:30 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      straw
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

This is a part of a post from ferrocement.net today.
Sound a lot like Bucky's Stockade construction,
doesn't it? Revisiting 1917 or so.

Dick

<cut>
  While looking for binders for biofuels I stumbled
onto strawboard
manufacturer whose patent linked to his Straw"Panel"
construction
technique.  They made compressed strawboard 4"-6" or
thicker and used
them for bearing walls and roof panels.  Structural
and insulative at
the same time.

  While we don't have mega presses, it seamed to me
that using the
straw
and 'fiberized' straw together might make an excellent
tensile
reinforcement for a strawcrete.  The 'fiberization'
process consists of
running the straw down through a steel burr mill, so
that the straw is
twisted apart exposing its fibers, much like grain
mills work.  Perhaps

<cut>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:02:33 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001  8:02
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001  7:04
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   no.  as you've stated it,
   it doesn't appear to be anything other than a restatement
   "of Newton" (sik), but I'm still not sure of your statement;
   can you give it another jab?

   thus quoth:
    Is this a test??

    --- Brian Hutchings
    <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
    > <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings
    > 01-MAR-2001  5:02
    >                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
    >
    >  that's it?
    >
    >  thus quoth:
    >  Page 152:In a right isoceles triangle the
    >   interatractive force between bodies is twice that
    > of
    >   the same two bodies one hypotenuse apart . Why?
    >
    >  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
    >  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:34:17 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
In-Reply-To:  <200103011602.f21G2XJ16721@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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Ya, restatement seem right. The significance must be
that it is _the_ operative explination (for Bucky) as
to how alloys do what they do. Don't you have a copy
of Cosmog.?

He shows a very simple diagram of a right isoceles
triangle with an atom/body/event at each corner. He
says the attraction between the atom at the
ninty-corner to either of the other two bodies is
twice what the attraction is between the two atoms
seperated by the hypotenuse. Maybe he thought this was
so obvious that we would not connect this fact to a
more complicated situation, as in the quasicubical
arrangement with many atoms which he drew on the
following page. I don't know.

The only reason I dig into Cosmog is that, as his last
work, it must embody His most integrated thinking.
Again, the ideas on pg.191 about the relationship
between a spherical vexion and non spherical vexion
seems too blunt and clearly-put to be a mistake or
transcription error. Kirby insists this must be the
case and I respect his wisdom on the subject, but I
remain puzzled at the very least.
>
>    no.  as you've stated it,
>    it doesn't appear to be anything other than a
> restatement
>    "of Newton" (sik), but I'm still not sure of your
> statement;
>    can you give it another jab?
>
>    thus quoth:
>     Is this a test??
>
>     --- Brian Hutchings
>     <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
>     > <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings
>     > 01-MAR-2001  5:02
>     >
> r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>     >
>     >  that's it?
>     >
>     >  thus quoth:
>     >  Page 152:In a right isoceles triangle the
>     >   interatractive force between bodies is twice
> that
>     > of
>     >   the same two bodies one hypotenuse apart .
> Why?
>     >
>     >  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>     >  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:37:51 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
In-Reply-To:  <3A9E1445.125B2FF3@ms15.hinet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Em- Did you perhaps mean the sum of the angles around
a polyhedron (or vexion as I say) rather than a
polygon? If so, 720 is the count.

Dick
--- M <callum2v@MS15.HINET.NET> wrote:
> I  seem  to  remember  reading  in  a  Bucky  book,
> that the sum of the
> angles  of  a polygon  equals...
>
> DO  any of  us  have the formula  or  an url
> pointing  to the  basic
> math?
>
>
> Thanks  for  the  toys.
> My  kids (and  I)  will have  hours  of  fun (and
> learning.  )
>
>
> Malcolm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:46:51 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      thin shells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Before I give out(up) on questions about thin-shell
construction on this list, can someone (Joe maybe)
explain the apperant rift that devolped between the
geodesic school and the monolithic school. Who is the
historian here? When did people decide not to use
three-way-grids on shells like in Bucky's patent and
like in the Jena planetarium? What gives? Am I the
only one to see this great synergetic loss?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:08:17 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001  9:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 yeah, I meant to ask you about that "difference" thing,
 now that I grok the "Law" (oy?).
    I don't have _C_, so you'll have to explain it;
 he has made such conjectures, before, if
 it's what I think it may be.

 as for "monolithic" domes,
 you still might want to have a sturcurally-sound
 (engineeringly) reinforcement inside of it, or not,
 depending upon that engineering.  of course,
 such a shell may simply be needed as a mold.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
  >     >  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm

 thus quoth:
  The only reason I dig into Cosmog is that, as his last
  work, it must embody His most integrated thinking.
  Again, the ideas on pg.191 about the relationship
  between a spherical vexion and non spherical vexion
  seems too blunt and clearly-put to be a mistake or
  transcription error. Kirby insists this must be the
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:00:58 -0800
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Comments:     SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) [209.198.117.157]
              from arc7a28.bf.sover.net [209.198.117.157] 209.198.117.157 Thu,
              1 Mar 2001 22:00:10 -0500 (EST)
From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      thin shells
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    The dome at the Zeiss Optical Works (Jena) was designed by a man
familiar with spherical trigonometry. I don't think there has been another
like it. There was a lot of precise work involved in this 16v dome. These
days it is much easier to wire together a lot of rebar. The times a geodesic
frame has been used they work very well, but a lot more builders know how to
spray concrete than know how to make a geodesic frame. Hardly anyone knows
how to weave a 3 way grid without getting the rebar overlapping several
thicknesses.
                                        Steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:00:50 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Bill Clinton's latest

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001 13:00
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

     Bill Curry writes: [on a "moral merit"].

  Tell us, mister Curry,
  what was the moral merit of Sir George's "shower"
  of  pardons re Iran-Contra (etc.; other things might have come-out),
  other than the ideal of cleanliness' proximity?
     Dhanesh gets it correct-o, again, and
  Clinton has been the most harrasses president since Kennedy,
  physically, legally and perhaps sexually!  (If anyone cares
  to refute that, just compare to Sir George's glide-through,
  vis-a-vu his 8yo, 600-page bio, that I always link in my sig --
 is there no respect for horribly undead Presidents ?-)
    as for the Admin's supposed ungreeness, just note that
 they most certainly did *not* halt the new deisel standards, although
 some of us *do* question them.  who benefits,
 *after* the oilcos?
    one begins to think, oil is not an organic fuel --
 as if it were petrified, say!

 --Les Dukes d'Enrons!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm

     > Bill Clinton was put in an or-else situation.  Had he pardoned
     > Leonard Peltier, the last-day deal letting Clinton off would
     > not have happened.   NB:  I don't know this; it is supposition.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:01:21 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
In-Reply-To:  <20010301233751.13191.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 03:37 PM 03/01/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Em- Did you perhaps mean the sum of the angles around
>a polyhedron (or vexion as I say) rather than a
>polygon? If so, 720 is the count.
>
>Dick

Thats:

(360 deg x number of vertices) - actual degrees = 720

or:

actual degrees = (360 deg) x (# of verts) - 720

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:30:01 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: thin shells
In-Reply-To:  <B6C47719.145C%triorbtl@sover.net>
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Hey Steve- Have you ever seen the spinning-laser-beam
used by drop-ceiling installers. In very large rooms
where such a ceiling is going in, this laser is set at
the desired height, leveled, and energized. The people
hang the framework on-beam. As geodesic equivalent to
this would probably be fairly simple to design (patent
opportunity here). So, inside the air-form, people
could follow the spherically-split,great circle beam
to hang rebar. No rocket science necessary.

Also, three-way-woven reinforcing wire mesh would also
do the trick (another synergetic opportunity). This
mesh would only need to be overlapped, not arranged in
any fancy pattern. The some quantity of steel would
then perform better as compared to typical square
mesh.

Again, as lighter and lighter
concrete/sprayed-material become available, the
geodesic nature of these domes will become understood.
Right now I think we are still stuck in the
weigh-is-strength myth.

Dick
--- The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET> wrote:
>     The dome at the Zeiss Optical Works (Jena) was
> designed by a man
> familiar with spherical trigonometry. I don't think
> there has been another
> like it. There was a lot of precise work involved in
> this 16v dome. These
> days it is much easier to wire together a lot of
> rebar. The times a geodesic
> frame has been used they work very well, but a lot
> more builders know how to
> spray concrete than know how to make a geodesic
> frame. Hardly anyone knows
> how to weave a 3 way grid without getting the rebar
> overlapping several
> thicknesses.
>                                         Steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:07:57 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
In-Reply-To:  <200103011708.f21H8HY17240@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Okay, I can only learn more and I can not learn more
without _making mistakes_.

Obviously, the spherical tet, as defined by the
'radius'(which can not exist) equal to the distance
between the C.G. and the vertex, is several times
greater than the volume of the tet itself. Bucky of
course knew this. So we can assume that is not what he
was talking about. The volume of the spherical tet
defined by the face-radius is of course less than the
tets volume. The edge-radius sphere is a little more
than 3/2 greater than the tet itself.

Now, since none of these radii seem to lead anywhere,
what else could he mean? Since length/frequency is
always special case (right all?) maybe we have to
think only about angle, which are generally and
eternal case.

You know, that is probably all there is to this
sidetrack of mine. All he meant all along is the there
are always 720 degrees missing from a vexion relative
to its corresponding imaginary sphere. Bucky says the
same thing in many different ways.

Dick


--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 01-MAR-2001  9:08
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  yeah, I meant to ask you about that "difference"
> thing,
>  now that I grok the "Law" (oy?).
>     I don't have _C_, so you'll have to explain it;
>  he has made such conjectures, before, if
>  it's what I think it may be.
>
>  as for "monolithic" domes,
>  you still might want to have a sturcurally-sound
>  (engineeringly) reinforcement inside of it, or not,
>  depending upon that engineering.  of course,
>  such a shell may simply be needed as a mold.
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>   >     >  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
>
>  thus quoth:
>   The only reason I dig into Cosmog is that, as his
> last
>   work, it must embody His most integrated thinking.
>   Again, the ideas on pg.191 about the relationship
>   between a spherical vexion and non spherical
> vexion
>   seems too blunt and clearly-put to be a mistake or
>   transcription error. Kirby insists this must be
the
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:13:04 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
In-Reply-To:  <200103011708.f21H8HY17240@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Follow out(up)- Yet the word _volume_ is as clear as
day in the section in question. Does that mean, then,
that volume has meaning apart from special case??
Maybe it does. Kirby or anyone, does volume have other
then special case meaning?

Dick
--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 01-MAR-2001  9:08
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  yeah, I meant to ask you about that "difference"
> thing,
>  now that I grok the "Law" (oy?).
>     I don't have _C_, so you'll have to explain it;
>  he has made such conjectures, before, if
>  it's what I think it may be.
>
>  as for "monolithic" domes,
>  you still might want to have a sturcurally-sound
>  (engineeringly) reinforcement inside of it, or not,
>  depending upon that engineering.  of course,
>  such a shell may simply be needed as a mold.
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>   >     >  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
>
>  thus quoth:
>   The only reason I dig into Cosmog is that, as his
> last
>   work, it must embody His most integrated thinking.
>   Again, the ideas on pg.191 about the relationship
>   between a spherical vexion and non spherical
> vexion
>   seems too blunt and clearly-put to be a mistake or
>   transcription error. Kirby insists this must be
the
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:02:22 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      eden
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

There is an article in Pop Sci, March, with cool pics
and drawing of this dome complex.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:36:52 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Re: Bush budget shenanigans

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            02-MAR-2001  7:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 SILENCE IS THE VOICE OF COMPLICITY

 Why were our (term-limited) state legislators manipulated
 into not allowing the dystributional remainders
 of the big utilities to make long-term contracts
 for the power that comes from the power-plants, they'd just sold?
    Does it happen to also be why, there is little mention
 of nuclear power by the President, himself, since
 California is such a hotbed of anti-nuke-yellar fundamentalism?

 I found a cute piece in Wednesday's Investor's Business Daily,
 pA26, "Why Aren't Other States Suffering Same Woes?" -
 directly against, "Are All the Critics Underestimating GW,
 like They Did RR?"  The latter takes-off from Raegan'' just-
 published radio commentaries & memos, and purports to show
 how these 2 presidents led the show - with the very same group
 of advisors, meeting Bush, here, at the Hoover Inst.,
 where "Bush said he was thinking about running .
 His economic policy was based on exactly the same principles
 as RR, and he laid it out  he said that [he wanted'em]
 before anyone told him he should cut marginal tax rates."
    That was in "early 1998," and included Condie Rice.

 Does that seem familiar to the President's obvious zeal,]
 in his presentation on TV (I saw about 10' of it) - that he seems
 to fully believe what these advisors have told him?
    Of course, these folks have always been more-deeply
 associated with Sir George, than Raegan; eh?

 [Why did the chicken steal the fork in the road?]

 INNOVATION and EXCELLENCE in
 the EQUITY-LINKED Capital Markets.

 February 28, 2001

 $1,250,000,037

 ENRON CORP.

 Zero Coupon Convertible Senior Notes due 2021

 Price 65.524% and acrued original discount, if any


 Salomon Smith Barney, a member of citigroup
 Deutsche Bank Alex. Brown
 JPMorgan
 Banc of America Securities LLC [sic; Japanese]
 Barclays Capital

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:49:17 -0500
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Any Pictures

Joe -I went to your site and I could not find access to the link you have
below. Is there one? I am sure there is.

Dick



On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:40:08 -0800, Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:

>Tina,
>
>Here's about 1000 pics that are relevant to the work of R Buckminster
Fuller:
>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/
>
>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: tina
>  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
>  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
>  Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 8:35 AM
>  Subject: Any Pictures
>
>
>  Please Give Me Any Pictures.
>
>  Tina@Mail.dci.co.ir
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:56:23 -0500
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

This reference is from Joe's picture directory. It says a three-way-weave
(tri-axial) is _4_ times as strong as biaxial weave. Maybe the Snyder law
applies here, too!

Tri-Weav-3way-Vs2-c.gif





On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:02:33 -0800, Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-
MONICA.CA.US> wrote:

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian =BFQuincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001  8:02
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> oops.
>
>  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            01-MAR-2001  7:04
>                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>   no.  as you've stated it,
>   it doesn't appear to be anything other than a restatement
>   "of Newton" (sik), but I'm still not sure of your statement;
>   can you give it another jab?
>
>   thus quoth:
>    Is this a test??
>
>    --- Brian Hutchings
>    <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
>    > <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings
>    > 01-MAR-2001  5:02
>    >                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>    >
>    >  that's it?
>    >
>    >  thus quoth:
>    >  Page 152:In a right isoceles triangle the
>    >   interatractive force between bodies is twice that
>    > of
>    >   the same two bodies one hypotenuse apart . Why?
>    >
>    >  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>    >  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:27:56 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Any Pictures
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Dick,

It's a little tricky.  There's no actual link.  It's just the URL of the
folder on my Internet Provider's hard drive.  Just click on this URL:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/

All the pics at my site are in that folder.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: Any Pictures


> Joe -I went to your site and I could not find access to the link you have
> below. Is there one? I am sure there is.
>
> Dick
>
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:40:08 -0800, Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
wrote:
>
> >Tina,
> >
> >Here's about 1000 pics that are relevant to the work of R Buckminster
> Fuller:
> >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 09:07:31 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Antarctic domes
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>

For links re the South Pole dome see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-S.htm
(scroll down to "South Pole")

The company that built the dome was Temcor:
http://www.temcor.com/
--
Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

"Scott Nickerson" <snickerson@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:JV0o6.234098$8V6.38660297@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> That would be the US Government.  Built in the 70's and due to be retired
> soon. The snow is burying it.
>
> carlyon@qwest.net wrote in message <3A706878.B32E6F7D@qwest.net>...
> >I saw some images of a glass and metal geodesic dome in
> >Antarctica recently.
> >
> >It was related to the story the doctor who had breast cancer
> >while stationed there, and then had the medical supplies and
> >equipment flown and dropped to her location.
> >
> >What I am wondering is, who manufactures those beautiful
> >Antarctic domes?
> >
> >It looked very sturdy and well built. I would like to
> >purchase a dome like that, rather than the wood framed
> >models.
> >
> >Just wondering
> >RE Carlyon
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:03:36 -0500
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: in-out

Correcttion- The shrinking triangle rotates ninty degrees as it travels
from full expansion to zero, not 180 degrees as originally put. That means
that the triangle rotates one complete cycle, 360 degrees, every pulsation
(from start to start).

>To those who program Java or other moving pictures-
>
>This will be very cool.
>Make am animation as follows: Start with a triangular cone, where the edge
>length of the triangle is equal to the height of the cone. Have the
>triangle rotate 1/2 turn(180 degress) as it moves toward the vertex of the
>cone. The triangle gets smaller and smaller as it approaches the vertex,
>and vanishes as it does reach the vertex.
>Make six clockwise and six counter-clockwise(left and right) spiraling
>versions of the discribed vanishing triangle. Superimpose all 12 spiraling,
>shrinking triangular cones so that all vertexes coincide, and have
>oppositely spiraling cones share axes. The 4 required axes are the sixty
>degree IVM axes.  When the 12 triangular cones vanish, they each reappear
>on the other side of the vertex and continue rotating in the same direction
>while expanding to their original size. As the VE reappears in the exact
>location that it began, it continues WITHOUT losing any momentum, until it
>disappears again. This is a new(?) embodiment of the Jitterbug to better
>model Nature's pulsating energy transformations.
>
>There is a resemblance between this model and the rodeo-rope-expert that
>repeatedly jumps through his or her rotating, torusing lasso.
>
>Dick
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:20:32 -0800, Dick Fischbeck
><dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>>Last night while turning a jitterbug repetitively
>>inside-out, I could see how no momentum is lost and
>>this oscillation is probably a perfect model for
>>omni-energetic dynamic balance. I think of it as the
>>4-d gyroscope. Does anyone know how to do a moving
>>image of this? I think it would be one step beyond the
>>beautiful jitterbug VE/octa transformationing Kirby
>>(and others?) already have in place.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:03:47 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: in-out

Correction- The shrinking triangle rotates ninty degrees as it travels from
full expansion to zero, not 180 degrees as originally put. That means that
the triangle rotates one complete cycle, 360 degrees, every pulsation(from
start to start). Also, not twelve cones, but 8. That's two on each of the
four axes, like the 8 triangles of the jitterbug.

>To those who program Java or other moving pictures-
>
>This will be very cool.
>Make am animation as follows: Start with a triangular cone, where the edge
>length of the triangle is equal to the height of the cone. Have the
>triangle rotate 1/2 turn(180 degress) as it moves toward the vertex of the
>cone. The triangle gets smaller and smaller as it approaches the vertex,
>and vanishes as it does reach the vertex.
>Make six clockwise and six counter-clockwise(left and right) spiraling
>versions of the discribed vanishing triangle. Superimpose all 12 spiraling,
>shrinking triangular cones so that all vertexes coincide, and have
>oppositely spiraling cones share axes. The 4 required axes are the sixty
>degree IVM axes.  When the 12 triangular cones vanish, they each reappear
>on the other side of the vertex and continue rotating in the same direction
>while expanding to their original size. As the VE reappears in the exact
>location that it began, it continues WITHOUT losing any momentum, until it
>disappears again. This is a new(?) embodiment of the Jitterbug to better
>model Nature's pulsating energy transformations.
>
>There is a resemblance between this model and the rodeo-rope-expert that
>repeatedly jumps through his or her rotating, torusing lasso.
>
>Dick
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:20:32 -0800, Dick Fischbeck
><dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>>Last night while turning a jitterbug repetitively
>>inside-out, I could see how no momentum is lost and
>>this oscillation is probably a perfect model for
>>omni-energetic dynamic balance. I think of it as the
>>4-d gyroscope. Does anyone know how to do a moving
>>image of this? I think it would be one step beyond the
>>beautiful jitterbug VE/octa transformationing Kirby
>>(and others?) already have in place.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:30:22 -0500
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:01:21 -0800, Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:

>At 03:37 PM 03/01/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>>Em- Did you perhaps mean the sum of the angles around
>>a polyhedron (or vexion as I say) rather than a
>>polygon? If so, 720 is the count.
>>
>>Dick
>
>Thats:
>
>(360 deg x number of vertices) - actual degrees = 720
>
>or:
>
>actual degrees = (360 deg) x (# of verts) - 720
>
>Kirby

Kirby- I am now conceiving _flat_ as zero degrees rather than 360 dgrs.
Flat is the nonexistant zero phase of inside-outing. Flat is nonexistant
zero curvature. This simplifies things in my special case brain. With this
adjustment in conceptioning, all vexion have 720 dgrs of curvature. It also
make it easier for me to concider inwardly-curving portions of a vexion. A
popped-in icosa hub becomes negative 60 dgrs. This 120 dgrs loss is then
divided evenly into the surrounding five vertexes, giving each of them a
total of 24 additional positive dgrs and each then with a total of 84 dgrs,
24 more than their original 60 dgrs. In this example, one vertex is -60
dgrs, 5 are 84 dgrs, and 6 are the standard 60 dgrs. -60+420+360=720.

Dick
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Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:39:24 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      triaxial
Comments: To: ferro-users@ferrocement.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
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If the snowboard manufacturers get the advantage
triaxial weave, the monolithic people can't be far
behind!

----------------------------
The Kevin Jones Pro Model an ultimate Freestyle
Freeride Machine!
woodcore, triaxial carbon weave, 3D step cap, sintered
4000 base, full wrap edges.
------------------------------------

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:48:34 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
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At 01:13 PM 03/02/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Follow out(up)- Yet the word _volume_ is as clear as
>day in the section in question. Does that mean, then,
>that volume has meaning apart from special case??
>Maybe it does. Kirby or anyone, does volume have other
>then special case meaning?
>
>Dick

Can you give me the page number again, in 'Cosmography'?
I need to read the passage again if I'm to have any
more thoughts about it.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 05:28:02 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            03-MAR-2001  5:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 what in Hell are you saying, dood --
 can you dyscribe the shape that you are saying
 --by its concavities?--
 has more angular stuff "divided" into it?...  or
 why "zero-phase" should be considered "flat" -- if any thing?

 as for the triaxial weave,
 who says that it's 4x stronger?

 thus quoth:
  popped-in icosa hub becomes negative 60 dgrs. This 120 dgrs loss is then
  divided evenly into the surrounding five vertexes, giving each of them a
  total of 24 additional positive dgrs and each then with a total of 84
 dgrs,
  24 more than their original 60 dgrs. In this example, one vertex is -60
  dgrs, 5 are 84 dgrs, and 6 are the standard 60 dgrs. -60+420+360=720

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 05:31:05 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: in-out

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            03-MAR-2001  5:31
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 now, doesn't this make a certain quantum of nonsense,
 out of the idea of angular momentum?...
 it does seem like what Bucky was doing
 with the "zero-tet," I guess.

 thus quoth:
  Correction- The shrinking triangle rotates ninty degrees as it travels
 from
  full expansion to zero, not 180 degrees as originally put. That means
 that
  the triangle rotates one complete cycle, 360 degrees, every
 pulsation(from
  start to start). Also, not twelve cones, but 8. That's two on each of the
  four axes, like the 8 triangles of the jitterbug.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:26:42 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Thread! (was: radius .-)
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20010303104834.00b97380@pop3.norton.antivirus>
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Page 191, Cosmography. After referring back to
_Synergetics 1+2_ volume is directly related to
energy. I'm not clear on how to use that info yet,
though. :!

Another approach I am taking is to compare the volume
of a tet with the volume of a high frequency vexion
which has an identical surface area to the tet. I have
not gone to far with it at this time. I am struggling
through the Demass Scenario as well. I have attempted
this before with some incites but it is slow going for
me.

Question- We know that the edge length of a tet (which
has atoms at the 4 vertexes, each of radius one) is
two. This is part of the idea of unity being at
minimun two. Then would not the volume of this unit
tet be 8 and not 1?

Dick
--- Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:
> At 01:13 PM 03/02/2001 -0800, you wrote:
> >Follow out(up)- Yet the word _volume_ is as clear
> as
> >day in the section in question. Does that mean,
> then,
> >that volume has meaning apart from special case??
> >Maybe it does. Kirby or anyone, does volume have
> other
> >then special case meaning?
> >
> >Dick
>
> Can you give me the page number again, in
> 'Cosmography'?
> I need to read the passage again if I'm to have any
> more thoughts about it.
>
> Kirby
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Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:44:13 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: in-out
In-Reply-To:  <200103031331.f23DV5x26123@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 03-MAR-2001  5:31
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  now, doesn't this make a certain quantum of
> nonsense,
>  out of the idea of angular momentum?...

I don't see why. Angular momentum is energy as is a
vibratory pulsing(as described). Think of any
vibrating/oscillating equilibrious system. They are
all  conserving energy whether momentum transforms
into tension(as in a spring) or any of the six
possible motions(what are they again,
1-invo/evoluting,2-precession, 3-orbit, 4-axial
rotating/spinning, 5-torque, 6-in/out or
expand/contract)

>  it does seem like what Bucky was doing
>  with the "zero-tet," I guess.


I would love to see this contraption in motion. Did
you read the part about the rodeo? No loss of momentum
there.
>
>  thus quoth:
>   Correction- The shrinking triangle rotates ninety
> degrees as it travels
>  from
>   full expansion to zero, not 180 degrees as
> originally put. That means
>  that
>   the triangle rotates one complete cycle, 360
> degrees, every
>  pulsation(from
>   start to start). Also, not twelve cones, but 8.
> That's two on each of the
>   four axes, like the 8 triangles of the jitterbug.
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>  >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:01:24 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
In-Reply-To:  <200103031328.f23DS2J26108@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 03-MAR-2001  5:28
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  what in Hell are you saying, dood --
>  can you dyscribe the shape that you are saying
>  --by its concavities?--
>  has more angular stuff "divided" into it?...  or
>  why "zero-phase" should be considered "flat" -- if
> any thing?

I did not say 'should', I don't use that word. I
described the way I am considering structures.

I wrote it as clearly as I could? can you be more
specific? The structure is the icosa with one hub
concave outward, 11 concave inward. See Fig.618.01c.

>
>  as for the triaxial weave,
>  who says that it's 4x stronger?

I am looking into this. I read it at Joe's site, where
he has his pictures.
>
>  thus quoth:
>   popped-in icosa hub becomes negative 60 dgrs. This
> 120 dgrs loss is then
>   divided evenly into the surrounding five vertexes,
> giving each of them a
>   total of 24 additional positive dgrs and each then
> with a total of 84
>  dgrs,
>   24 more than their original 60 dgrs. In this
> example, one vertex is -60
>   dgrs, 5 are 84 dgrs, and 6 are the standard 60
> dgrs. -60+420+360=720
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>  http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:05:06 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
In-Reply-To:  <200103031328.f23DS2J26108@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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>
>  as for the triaxial weave,
>  who says that it's 4x stronger?

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/
Tri-Weav-3way-Vs2-c.gif

Brian-
Hey, don't get excited. Calm is good.
Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:20:11 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
In-Reply-To:  <200103031328.f23DS2J26108@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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  or
>  why "zero-phase" should be considered "flat" -- if
> any thing?
>

Look at it this way. Euclid's straight line can be
measured as a 180 dgr angle OR no angle. If I roll a
ball on the floor, and it hits nothing, we have zero
deflection. If it grazes a chair leg, it might be
deflected 1 dgr, 10 drgs, 90 dgrs or reflect 180 dgrs.
In all case, straight(or flat we might say) is zero. I
am using that outlook on the surface of a
polyhedron/vexion, too, only there we are able to
angle-off in 2 dimensions, one more than on the floor.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 15:50:47 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
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Here's where I got my info from:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3WayVs2Way.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: sum of the angles

> >  as for the triaxial weave,
> >  who says that it's 4x stronger?
>
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/
> Tri-Weav-3way-Vs2-c.gif
>
> Brian-
> Hey, don't get excited. Calm is good.
> Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 09:24:57 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            03-MAR-2001  9:24
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, I get your reasoning, but
 it doesn't do anything (like you'd tried, earlier)
 insofar as making sense of algebraic formalization;
 that is, we just don't stick "180-degree angles"
 onto an edge, willy-nilly.
    you have to look at the singularities, themselves,
 like the endpoints of the edge, or the possibility that
 it could be said to be actually two edges, in some sense
 (the "bigon," as in A.Klein's encyclopedic treatment) -- and,
 anyway, if you say "there be zero degrees in that angle,"
 you have already presumed a fold of some sort,
 that the vertex is doing something besides "making a closed segment."

 thus quoth:
  Look at it this way. Euclid's straight line can be
  measured as a 180 dgr angle OR no angle. If I roll a
  ball on the floor, and it hits nothing, we have zero
  deflection. If it grazes a chair leg, it might be
  deflected 1 dgr, 10 drgs, 90 dgrs or reflect 180 dgrs.
  In all case, straight(or flat we might say) is zero. I

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 09:28:51 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: in-out

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            03-MAR-2001  9:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, momentum has to be conserved, and
 how does that come into your dysappearing trigona?

 thus quoth:
  I don't see why. Angular momentum is energy as is a
  vibratory pulsing(as described). Think of any
  vibrating/oscillating equilibrious system. They are
  all  conserving energy whether momentum transforms
  into tension(as in a spring) or any of the six

 well, so, where's the spring that's absorbing that slack !?!

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:11:58 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            03-MAR-2001 10:11
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 did you configure the formula for the sum-of-angles
 in a good, ol'flat polygon?
    note that, as per the "Preliminaries"
 in Altshiller-Court,
 the "skew quadrilateral" or tetragon is the same
 as the tetrahedron (in all relavent theorems .-)

 thus quoth:
 >well, so, where's the spring that's absorbing that slack !?!

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >>http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Mar 2001 10:13:42 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: in-out
In-Reply-To:  <200103031728.f23HSpB26646@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 03-MAR-2001  9:28
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  well, momentum has to be conserved, and
>  how does that come into your dysappearing trigona?

I am showing you a Kirby post to synergeo which may
relate to your question. I am no genious but I have a
health imagination. What I can picture metaphysically
may have a physical counterpart. I appreciate that you
are taking time to consider my posts(really). It helps
me a lot. Very soon my patent application for the
hubdome will be sent in, at which time I can share
that. I think you will be more easily able to see the
practical side of my BSing. Here is Kirby's thing on
dysappering(at least in my mind):


Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 20:25:09 -0000
   From: pdx4d@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 249

--- In synergeo@y..., David Chako <dchako@P...> wrote:
> > Yes, all the way to nothing, where it turns
inside-out and
> > expands in Negative Universe.  It's a
positive/negative
> > coordinate space with the origin a sort-of
inflection point,
> > where the VE passes through the looking glass.
Ask Alice
> > if you don't believe me.
> >
> > Kirby
>
>
> I like this idea, Kirby, of the VE as an "exploded"
point; Fuller
> clearly has something like this in mind.

Yes, he called it "bow-tie Universe" where the knot is
the
singularity between positive and negative, with the VE
expanding
to a limit in each bow.

I think maybe what's syntropic to one is entropic to
the other,
whereas at zero these two tendencies are in precise
equilibrium
(a non-state).  Death here is birth there -- something
like that
anyway.

Somehow this relates to the Boltzmann concept that
entropic flame-
out in system A is counter-balanced by the syntropic
emergence of
new order in system B.  That seems to work against the
idea that
entropy is increasing overall, but then Fuller was
keen to include
the metaphysical as part of Universe, whereas
thermodynamics is
strictly about what's physical (except how shall we
define "order"
minus reference to some metaphysical, atemporal
standard?).

Just musing...

Kirby


>
>  thus quoth:
>   I don't see why. Angular momentum is energy as is
> a
>   vibratory pulsing(as described). Think of any
>   vibrating/oscillating equilibrious system. They
> are
>   all  conserving energy whether momentum transforms
>   into tension(as in a spring) or any of the six
>
>  well, so, where's the spring that's absorbing that
> slack !?!

The spring is the oscillating tension between
radiation and gravity(maybe).


>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>  >http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Mar 2001 10:26:17 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
In-Reply-To:  <200103031724.f23HOvG26623@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 03-MAR-2001  9:24
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  well, I get your reasoning, but
>  it doesn't do anything (like you'd tried, earlier)
>  insofar as making sense of algebraic formalization;
>  that is,

 we just don't stick "180-degree angles"
>  onto an edge, willy-nilly.

Will you elaborate this point?

Here is another way to say "flat is zero." Take a
string-composed high frequency polygon(circle) as if
you were going to play cats cradle. Laid in a table I
pull it in three directions which gives me a trigon.
Now, there is no angle between the corners(a staight
leg). I pull on the middle of that leg(which has zero
dgrs). That makes a new angle which increases. The
other three angles give out(up) dgrs(curvature) to the
newly-made forth corner. Always a 180 dgr total.


>     you have to look at the singularities,
> themselves,
>  like the endpoints of the edge, or the possibility
> that
>  it could be said to be actually two edges, in some
> sense
>  (the "bigon," as in A.Klein's encyclopedic
> treatment) -- and,
>  anyway, if you say "there be zero degrees in that
> angle,"
>  you have already presumed a fold of some sort,
>  that the vertex is doing something besides "making
> a closed segment."
>
>  thus quoth:
>   Look at it this way. Euclid's straight line can be
>   measured as a 180 dgr angle OR no angle. If I roll
> a
>   ball on the floor, and it hits nothing, we have
> zero
>   deflection. If it grazes a chair leg, it might be
>   deflected 1 dgr, 10 drgs, 90 dgrs or reflect 180
> dgrs.
>   In all case, straight(or flat we might say) is
> zero. I
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Mar 2001 11:22:44 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: Antarctic domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mitchell" <syntrivity@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic,alt.bucky-fuller
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Antarctic domes


> Bucky was alive when this was built. I always hate to see something go
that is
> a historical structure like this.
> It should be made a historical structure inside the one in Montreal to
show
> the failure and the successful dome together.

> The dome burnt in Canada because the people working on it were so stupid
as to
> use hot welding torches on it 3 times catching it on fire and using fire
> extinguishers to put it out. They ran out of fire fighting equipment and
tried
> it one more time and burnt the dome down, I use down for them, they were
real
> idiots. The greatest structure in human history was fired for these stupid
> idiots.

> The dome on the south pole shows the greatness that only Bucky had,
> that no one sees, only when they can get a glimpse of his clean clear
ideas,
> can people see his greatness. It is a shame that people can not see his
real
> great ideas, they are just small minded and they can not even give him
awards
> for what he has done because they do not understand him.

> If you look at the film
> Thinking Out Loud, even when people are paid a lot to study him they are
light
> years away from seeing him in the truthful light. Very few people do, on
this
> earth; it is a shame, for his information packaged correctly could save
the
> world from being such a place of suffering and failure.  In many ways
using the
> same resources just updated information that he has invented, discovered
and
> confined to human know how. The world is just FQDUP.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Mar 2001 08:52:04 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            04-MAR-2001  8:52
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 yews, you *can* do that but, else,
 you are giving a sort of definition that means,
 All polygona are circles (if you do that for ever);
 you *can* say that the circle is an infinigon (as well
 as a unigon), but it is completely dystinct
 from polygona in general (and the "bigon" in particular .-)
    the important thing is that "3 points define a trigon, and
 a circle, both!"

 thus quoth:
  Will you elaborate this point?

  Here is another way to say "flat is zero." Take a
  string-composed high frequency polygon(circle) as if
  you were going to play cats cradle. Laid in a table I
  pull it in three directions which gives me a trigon.
  Now, there is no angle between the corners(a staight
  leg). I pull on the middle of that leg(which has zero
  dgrs). That makes a new angle which increases. The

 --Join the Enron Liberation Front!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:14:39 -0500
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

> we just don't stick "180-degree angles"
>>  onto an edge, willy-nilly.
>
>Will you elaborate this point?
>
>Here is another way to say "flat is zero." Take a
>string-composed high frequency polygon(circle) as if
>you were going to play cats cradle. Laid in a table I
>pull it in three directions which gives me a trigon.
>Now, there is no angle between the corners(a staight
>leg). I pull on the middle of that leg(which has zero
>dgrs). That makes a new angle which increases. The
>other three angles give out(up) dgrs(curvature) to the
>newly-made forth corner. Always a 180 dgr total.

Correction- Always a _360_ dgr total. What is it called, a supplimentary
angle?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:03:15 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
In-Reply-To:  <200103041652.f24Gq4o28889@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>  yews, you *can* do that but, else,
>  you are giving a sort of definition that means,
>  All polygona are circles (if you do that for ever);
>  you *can* say that the circle is an infinigon (as
> well
>  as a unigon), but it is completely dystinct
>  from polygona in general (and the "bigon" in
> particular .-)
>     the important thing is that "3 points define a
> trigon, and
>  a circle, both!"

Circle is obsolete- isn't it?- in exactly the same way
up and down are obsolete. Infinite is meaningless as
well. I am done using pi. I am done using sphere.
These words are dead ends. I am not saying I know
where this will go. In the words of the wise one, "you
and all of us had best stop doing so or we will
sacrifice our divine gift of mind, which deals
exclusively with the truth."

I wonder if we can consider two mutually-orbiting
bodies(Moon and Earth say) as a bigon/
bivexion/diaster or what ever the term is?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:08:52 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fw: Antarctic domes
In-Reply-To:  <002f01c0a4e0$8fd1e120$8a0efbcf@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > The dome on the south pole shows the greatness
> that only Bucky had,
> > that no one sees, only when they can get a glimpse
> of his clean clear
> ideas,
> > can people see his greatness. It is a shame that
> people can not see his
> real
> > great ideas, they are just small minded and they
> can not even give him
> awards
> > for what he has done because they do not
> understand him.

The only logical task, then, is to continue with he
work. Like he says, we can't change one iota of the
past.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:40:47 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      sum of the interior angles
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Dick,

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Pythagoras.html

(i) The sum of the angles of a triangle
 is equal to two right angles.
Also the Pythagoreans knew the generalisation
which states that a polygon with n sides has
sum of interior angles 2n - 4 right angles and
 sum of exterior angles equal to four right angles.

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:14:40 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the interior angles
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-OE3roUdvWqJsxy00001278@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Steve- This is the angle I am talking about.

Mathematics- The angle or arc that when added to a
given angle or arc makes 180°. In this sense, also
called _supplementary_ angle.

So, instead of using the interior or exterior angle of
a polygon, if we use the supplementary angle(which is
really the one that counts, vectorially speaking) they
always add together to equal 360 dgrs, always. The
same thing works fo vexion(formerly polyhedron) except
they add together to make 720 dgrs, no exception to
the rule, even when negative curvature is involved.
That's why I say _flat equals zero_. We are always
talking about curvature of a system and this approach
seems mucho simplier. When I turn a system inside-out,
a rubber glove say, it's surface must pass though the
zero-phase, which is flat, no dgrs. This is another
way to put it, from Cosmog: " ,the  difference between
a flat piece of paper and polyhedron is one
tetrahedron.."

The other way to figure it is- the number of vertexes
of a system times 360 is always 720 dgrs more then the
total number of surface angles of the system. An easy
way to get the total number of surface angles is to
multiply the number of triangles times 180 dgrs.

There is more than one one to skin a cat (or
polyhedron), and to consider straight and flat as zero
dgrs is easier for me, and as far as I can tell the
same results result. Am I making sense mathematically?

Dick



--- Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Dick,
>
>
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Pythagoras.html
>
> (i) The sum of the angles of a triangle
>  is equal to two right angles.
> Also the Pythagoreans knew the generalisation
> which states that a polygon with n sides has
> sum of interior angles 2n - 4 right angles and
>  sum of exterior angles equal to four right angles.
>
> steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:38:40 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the interior angles
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-OE3roUdvWqJsxy00001278@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Steve-This also relates to the concept of _unity is
plural and at minimun two_. One way Bucky demonstrates
this is the make a simple overhand knot in a rope,
which is 360 dgrs (one cycle) around one axis and 360
dgrs(second cycle) around a second axis which is at
some angle to the first axis. See page 120, Cosmog.,
fig. 6.1,F. Also, Syn I, 515.30. And, a tetrahedron is
the result of combining two triangles, each being one
cycle and each having 360 dgrs(120+120+120) of
vectorially turning(curving) trajectories/events.
Then, all polygons have 360 dgrs and all vexion have
720 dgrs.

[Crackpots can say things like this. ;)] It is only a
difference in how to count dgrs. In a similair way,
synergetics counts volume in tets rather than cubes.
And that gave us the synergetic hierarchy after seeing
the rational realationships which became apperent.

Dick

--- Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Dick,
>
>
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Pythagoras.html
>
> (i) The sum of the angles of a triangle
>  is equal to two right angles.
> Also the Pythagoreans knew the generalisation
> which states that a polygon with n sides has
> sum of interior angles 2n - 4 right angles and
>  sum of exterior angles equal to four right angles.
>
> steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:43:40 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Any Pictures
In-Reply-To:  <001101c0a3a2$ca90f1a0$2308fbcf@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Joe-Why not link them or at least tell people how to
get there. They are great pictures that say so much.
I'd even put the link or directions on your main page.

Dick
--- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> Dick,
>
> It's a little tricky.  There's no actual link.  It's
> just the URL of the
> folder on my Internet Provider's hard drive.  Just
> click on this URL:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/
>
> All the pics at my site are in that folder.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 2:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Any Pictures
>
>
> > Joe -I went to your site and I could not find
> access to the link you have
> > below. Is there one? I am sure there is.
> >
> > Dick
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:40:08 -0800, Joe S Moore
> <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > >Tina,
> > >
> > >Here's about 1000 pics that are relevant to the
> work of R Buckminster
> > Fuller:
> > >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/
> > >
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:53:23 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      720 degrees ?
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dick,

you wrote....

>Steve- This is the angle I am talking about.

>Mathematics- The angle or arc that when added to a
>given angle or arc makes 180°. In this sense, also
>called _supplementary_ angle.

>So, instead of using the interior or exterior angle of
>a polygon, if we use the supplementary angle(which is
>really the one that counts, vectorially speaking) they
>always add together to equal 360 dgrs, always.

yes, agree ....with polygons.

>The same thing works for vexion (formerly polyhedron) except
>they add together to make 720 dgrs, no exception to
>the rule, even when negative curvature is involved.

i would have to disagree here.  take a look at pages
198 and 199 of cosmography.
 ( btw, personally, my choice is still polyhedron and
not vexion nor vertexion nor anything else)


>This is another
>way to put it, from Cosmog: " , the  difference between
>a flat piece of paper and polyhedron is one
>tetrahedron.."

aren't  you saying ....all polyhedrons equal one tetrahedron here ?

>The other way to figure it is- the number of vertexes
>of a system times 360 is always 720 dgrs more then the
>total number of surface angles of the system. An easy
>way to get the total number of surface angles is to
>multiply the number of triangles times 180 dgrs.

is this conclusion based upon your 720 degrees assumption ?

please state exactly what your statement is...
are you saying that the sum of the supplementary angles
for all polyhedron is 720 ? are you taking every possible
supplementary angle to achieve this 720 figure ?

>There is more than one  to skin a cat (or
>polyhedron), and to consider straight and flat as zero
>dgrs is easier for me, and as far as I can tell the
>same results result.

perhaps it is easier and useful for you to do so ....in
the system you have developed. if it works for you,
that 180 degrees can best be seen in your system as
flat/zero/0 degrees/etc....then it does not really matter.

where are you going with this ? if we/you did call it
whatever, so what are the consequences ?


 >Am I making sense mathematically?

some sense, but i am not always sure exactly what
your issue is at times.  after all the recent emails about this topic , only
now did we find out that you were talking about supplementary
angles.....or at least i missed that point before.

i do mean to pontificate here in any sense. i am just putting in
my two cents.

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:32:21 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: 720 degrees ?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001  6:32
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the external angles of a polygon *are* supplementray
 to the internal ones, by construction!
    you might be surprized,
 this doesn't work for the "solid" angles
 of the vertices, alas.  the "720-degree (4pi) deficit"
 only refers to the surface-angles.

 thus quoth:
  >So, instead of using the interior or exterior angle of
  >a polygon, if we use the supplementary angle(which is
  >really the one that counts, vectorially speaking) they
  >always add together to equal 360 dgrs, always.

 always add to *multiples* of 360-degrees.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:36:28 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] budget/consumption

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001  6:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 why'd this be so unusual for a scion of two generations
 of "fossilized" wealth (like Gore,
 the self-acknowledged greeniac-in-his-own-write) ??
    we ought to start a cult
 of worshiping the cartoon Mobilsaurus --
 the one that gets liquidated into petroleum,
 by a novel (trade-secret) method of fossilization; eh?

 thus quoth:
  research by other experts.  The last international panel report seems to
  have moved some people.  I was encouraged that EPA Administrator Whitman
  has indicated she is considering regulations in this area and that she
  reports that President Bush is convinced of the importance of work in
 this

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:41:31 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the interior angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001  6:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 yes, that's the full statment of it; thanks, Steve.

 thus quoth:
  > which states that a polygon with n sides has
  > sum of interior angles 2n - 4 right angles and
  >  sum of exterior angles equal to four right angles.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >>http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:51:18 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001  6:51
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 yeah, there's nothing like the messainic occult
 o'Buckafka Fullofit!
    well, this is the same "problem" that folks had
 with Euclid's "parallel postulate;"
 it just happens to be one of those "undefineds,"
 without which you are "up" Shitz Creek without a paddle.
    in another sense, it may be related to Russell's attempt
 to stick all of mathematics into a perfect box of axioms,
 which was fought by Whitehead, or I guess he just gave-up
 -- "up" on Lord Bertie, and demolished by Godel.

 thus quoth:
  Circle is obsolete- isn't it?- in exactly the same way
  up and down are obsolete. Infinite is meaningless as
  well. I am done using pi. I am done using sphere.
  These words are dead ends. I am not saying I know
  where this will go. In the words of the wise one, "you
  and all of us had best stop doing so or we will
  sacrifice our divine gift of mind, which deals
  exclusively with the truth."

  I wonder if we can consider two mutually-orbiting
  bodies(Moon and Earth say) as a bigon/
  bivexion/diaster or what ever the term is?

 that's just fine; see Ahrrenius and Alfven's diagrams
 of the five-fold orbits of the asteroids (frame of ref
 is frozen onto the line between Sun and Jupiter .-)

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >>http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:58:28 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] budget/consumption

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001  6:58
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 National
 Collapse Hits, States Call For New Bretton Woods
 Resolutions for reorganizing the bankrupt global financial system, as
 advocated by Lyndon LaRouche, have been introduced in the state
 legislatures of Kentucky, Virginia, and Maryland, with similar bills in
 preparation in Pennsylvania and other states.

 The Hanssen Case and
 The Institutional Corruption of FBI/DOJ
 Auschwitz Heir Named Ambassador to Britain
 A profile of William Stamps Farish III.

 `Mud, Blood and Beer' in Foreign Policy
 A profile of Richard Armitage, nominated to be Deputy Secretary of State.

 Marc Rich Scandal:
 Another Al Gore Operation against Bill Clinton
 The scandal has seriously weakened Clinton's position in the Democratic
 Party, vs. the influence of Gore and his cronies, who openly advocate
 abandoning the traditional FDR constituencies on which the modern
 Democratic Party was built.

 http://www.larouchepub.com/eirtoc/2001/eirtoc_2809.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:53:22 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 720 degrees ?
In-Reply-To:  <200103051432.f25EWLl00401@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 05-MAR-2001  6:32
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  the external angles of a polygon *are*
> supplementray
>  to the internal ones, by construction!
>     you might be surprized,
>  this doesn't work for the "solid" angles
>  of the vertices, alas

Which/what is solid angle, please?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:01:20 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the interior angles
In-Reply-To:  <200103051441.f25EfVv00497@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 05-MAR-2001  6:41
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  yes, that's the full statment of it; thanks, Steve.
>
>  thus quoth:
>   > which states that a polygon with n sides has
>   > sum of interior angles 2n - 4 right angles and
>   >  sum of exterior angles equal to four right
> angles.

Quoth Dick- The sum of the vector-deflection angles of
a polygon equals 360 dgrs. That is, the total
cornering of a vector returning onto itself is 360
degrs. If I drive my car until I return to my starting
position, either to the left or to the right, I have
turned 360 dgrs.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 07:10:38 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: 720 degrees ?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001  7:10
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the whole solid angle is defined as that seen
 from the center of a sphere; it's the whole sky,
 as it were, if you were in space (as you is .-)
    it is stated in terms of the radius, as the circumference,
 as 4pi (720 degrees; the surface is 4(rr)pi squares of area --
 unit-edged squares), or just pi, in terms of the diameter.

 thus quoth:
  Which/what is solid angle, please?

 --Chairman George at Watergate!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush12.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 07:14:19 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: 720 degrees ?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001  7:14
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I know, everyone in High (tee-hee) School
 was bamboozled by the fact that
 the surface of a sphere is exactly 4 times as much
 as that of its greatest circles (or,
 in Buckafkan terms, the GC equals the quadrant
 of the spherical tetrehedron .-)

 --Chairman George at Watergate!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bush12.htm
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Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 07:17:12 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the interior angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001  7:17
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that's what he saithed:
 four "right-on" angles!

 thus quoth:
  degrs. If I drive my car until I return to my starting
  position, either to the left or to the right, I have
  turned 360 dgrs.

 yes, but beware the Mobius Driveway!

 --Chairman George at Watergate!
 >>http://www.tarpley.net/bush12.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:29:40 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 720 degrees ?
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--- Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Dick,
>
> you wrote....
>
> >Steve- This is the angle I am talking about.
>

> >The same thing works for vexion (formerly
> polyhedron) except
> >they add together to make 720 dgrs, no exception to
> >the rule, even when negative curvature is involved.
>
> i would have to disagree here.  take a look at pages
> 198 and 199 of cosmography.
>  ( btw, personally, my choice is still polyhedron
> and
> not vexion nor vertexion nor anything else)

Alright, what Bucky is counting there is the sum of
the angles around each vertex, for example, an icosa
has 300  dgrs x 12 vertexes = 3600 dgrs. All I am
playing with is the idea that around each 12 vertexes,
if  I consider flat as zero, then the count is 60
dgrs. That is the number of dgrs of curvature around
each vertex if the icosa. I can look at it the
traditional way, that is by subtracting 60 dgrs from
360 leaving 300 around each vertex _OR_ by adding 60
dgrs to zero to have 60 dgrs around each vertex. The
first way of counting is circuitous to me. Kind of
like negative dgrs.
>
>
> >This is another
> >way to put it, from Cosmog: " , the  difference
> between
> >a flat piece of paper and polyhedron is one
> >tetrahedron.."
>
> aren't  you saying ....all polyhedrons equal one
> tetrahedron here ?

These are Bucky's word and I am trying to understand
what he means and why he says what he says. I would
restate it in a slightly different way then how you
have put it. I would say all polyhedron have 720 dgrs
(one tetrahedron worth) of curvature.

>
> >The other way to figure it is- the number of
> vertexes
> >of a system times 360 is always 720 dgrs more then
> the
> >total number of surface angles of the system. An
> easy
> >way to get the total number of surface angles is to
> >multiply the number of triangles times 180 dgrs.
>
> is this conclusion based upon your 720 degrees
> assumption ?

No, this is the traditional way to say the same thing.
The 720 dgr assumption comes from this traditional
view.

>
> please state exactly what your statement is...
> are you saying that the sum of the supplementary
> angles
> for all polyhedron is 720 ? are you taking every
> possible
> supplementary angle to achieve this 720 figure ?

I guess the premiss is that flat makes more sense
equal to zero dgrs than equal to 360 dgrs. Wasn't the
irrational pi arrived at by assuming that every point
on a (nonexistent) sphere is surrounded by 360 dgrs? I
can't live with that.
>
> >There is more than one  to skin a cat (or
> >polyhedron), and to consider straight and flat as
> zero
> >dgrs is easier for me, and as far as I can tell the
> >same results result.
>
> perhaps it is easier and useful for you to do so
> ....in
> the system you have developed. if it works for you,
> that 180 degrees can best be seen in your system as
> flat/zero/0 degrees/etc....then it does not really
> matter.
> where are you going with this ? if we/you did call
> it
> whatever, so what are the consequences ?

I am looking for simplicity. The easier we make this,
the more people can access synergetics.

>
>  >Am I making sense mathematically?
>
> some sense, but i am not always sure exactly what
> your issue is at times.  after all the recent emails
> about this topic , only
> now did we find out that you were talking about
> supplementary
> angles.....or at least i missed that point before.

Did you read the _ball-rolling-on-the-floor_ part?
That is vectorology. :] We can only discuss vectors,
really. Edges of polyhedra are vector energy events.
In that light, the interior or exterior angle of a
triangle is misleading.

> i do mean to pontificate here in any sense. i am
> just putting in
> my two cents.
>
> steve

No, your fine. I am trying to figure out Bucky's
statements on page 191 of Cosmog. I also am looking
for the easiest way around some obsolete concepts,
like sphere and pi and circle, none of which are real.
I am exploring, that's all. I am glad you are writing,
and who knows, we may discover something important. I
realize, too, that you and others know more math than
I do, but as long as I can express myself adequately I
am learning from the exchange.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:35:01 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 720 degrees ?
In-Reply-To:  <200103051432.f25EWLl00401@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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>
>  the external angles of a polygon *are*
> supplementray
>  to the internal ones, by construction!

Are not the  external angles of a polygon
complimentary to the internal ones, that is, they add
together to make 360 dgrs? No?

>     you might be surprized,
>  this doesn't work for the "solid" angles
>  of the vertices, alas.  the "720-degree (4pi)
> deficit"
>  only refers to the surface-angles.

What did you say a solid angle was?

>  thus quoth:
>   >So, instead of using the interior or exterior
> angle of
>   >a polygon, if we use the supplementary
> angle(which is
>   >really the one that counts, vectorially speaking)
> they
>   >always add together to equal 360 dgrs, always.
>
>  always add to *multiples* of 360-degrees.
>
>  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
>  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:40:20 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 720 degrees ?
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--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 05-MAR-2001  7:10
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  the whole solid angle is defined as that seen
>  from the center of a sphere; it's the whole sky,
>  as it were, if you were in space (as you is .-)
>     it is stated in terms of the radius, as the
> circumference,
>  as 4pi (720 degrees; the surface is 4(rr)pi squares
> of area --
>  unit-edged squares), or just pi, in terms of the
> diameter.
>
Oh. We can't use pi. But 720 dgrs sounds usable. I
think I am saying the identical thing without going
into spherical trig.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:52:54 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      innocuous remoteness
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Innocuous remoteness- I love that phrase. What a poet
Bucky was! It must be the reverse of critical
proximity.

Here on p. 194 of _Cosmog_ he says, "These
implimentations of synergetic geometry have brought me
to the point where I am able to say conclusively that
I am beginning to comprehend incisively the structure
of matter in all of its variable states,molecular,
atomic, and subatomic patterning."

I am _beginning_ to comprehend, he says. How beautiful
is that!

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:33:37 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      why 360 degrees ?
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Dick,

>Wasn't the irrational pi arrived at by assuming that every point
>on a (nonexistent) sphere is surrounded by 360 dgrs

i do not think that is true....how many points do you think
would be enough to make the complete sphere....that must
be an infinite amount ?.  (a distinction certainly need be kept among
points,
polygons and polyhedrons.)

in addition, i am not sure, but i believe that 360 degrees was actually
"selected"...due to having an abundance of factors.
thus allowing for the easiest sub-divisions mathematically.

if you think about it, they could have made a right triangle 100
degrees or a circle 100 degrees....but that sub-divides poorly,
and why those values were not "chosen", in my understanding.

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:56:59 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
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>  yeah, there's nothing like the messainic occult
>  o'Buckafka Fullofit!
>     well, this is the same "problem" that folks had
>  with Euclid's "parallel postulate;"
>  it just happens to be one of those "undefineds,"
>  without which you are "up" Shitz Creek without a
> paddle.

But why? Don't you agree that Nature is pi-less?
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:17:30 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: why 360 degrees ?
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--- Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Dick,
>
> >Wasn't the irrational pi arrived at by assuming
> that every point
> >on a (nonexistent) sphere is surrounded by 360 dgrs
>
> i do not think that is true....how many points do
> you think
> would be enough to make the complete sphere....that
> must
> be an infinite amount ?.  (a distinction certainly
> need be kept among
> points,
> polygons and polyhedrons.)

I think that is exactly the problem. Calculus does do
this to arrive at pi. It does use an infinite number
of points to subdivide nonexistant circles and
spheres.

>
> in addition, i am not sure, but i believe that 360
> degrees was actually
> "selected"...due to having an abundance of factors.
> thus allowing for the easiest sub-divisions
> mathematically.

Again, according the RBF(and I have no need to doubt
him on this) the Babylonians discovered the 120 equal
area triangles that come from dividing the
icosahedron's 20 triangles each into six 30-60-90
right triangles, 60 positive and 60 negative. That
gave them the idea that sixty was Nature's optimum
subdividing number. This agrees with your reasoning on
why one number was chosen over another.
>
> if you think about it, they could have made a right
> triangle 100
> degrees or a circle 100 degrees....but that
> sub-divides poorly,
> and why those values were not "chosen", in my
> understanding.
>
> steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:48:04 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      pi calculations
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Dick,

some pi stuff.....

from a book called ..mathematics and the imagination
edward kasner and james newman 1963 page 74 and 75


thus quoth

by well-known, simple, geometric methods,
employing only ruler and compass, the number of sides
of an inscribed and circumscribed polygon can
be doubled as many times as desired. the area of
the successively inscribed polygons will approach
that of a circle but their area will always remain
slightly less:  the area of the circumscribed will
approach that of a circle but their area will always remain
slightly greater. the common value approached
by both is the area of the circle. in other words,
the circle is the limit of these two series of polygons.
if the radius of the circle is 1, its area which equals pi r^2,
is simply pi.

archimedes' approximation for pi is considered closer than that
given in the Bible. in the book of Kings, and in
Chronicles, pi is given as 3. Egyptian mathematicians gave  a
somewhat more precise value---3.1416, used in our schoolbooks
was already known at the time of Ptolemy in 150 A.D."

"in 1596 Ludolph van Ceulen, the German mathematician,
long a resident in Holland, calculated 35 decimal places for pi.
3.14159 26535 89793 23846 ...which the Germans still call
the Ludolphian number"

end quotes
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:25:44 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001 13:25
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 firstly, I doubt that Egyptians'd have expressed it,
 *as* "3.1416," since they used a method of "unit fractions"
 that have only one in the numerator (there was one exception,
 which I've forgotte, at the moment-being .-)
    you can say that pi is nature-less, or that
 nature can't even count to zero, in most senses.
    Bucky actually used "all of euclid" in his assumptions, although
 he was apparently not practiced in *any* of it,
 other than what he found in his explorations;
 I ain't knocking that!
    that is to say, he assumes that space is flat; dig?...  anyway,
 you can measure this curvature on facetless, curvy objects, as well,
 using differential geometry, but don't ask me, How?...  it's just that
 Bucky's objects are perfectly flat, and
 he side-steps this postulate by calling the facets,
 Windows -- which he didn't patent!

 oh, I spelled "Schitz," wrongly.

 thus quoth:
  But why? Don't you agree that Nature is pi-less?

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:41:52 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001 13:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 "external angles" are defined by extending a side, outside,
 and measuring to the next side (subtract internal from 180-degrees);
 complimentary is the 90-degree compliment;
 there's a word for the 360 one,
 used in Hahn's _Complex Geometry_ --
 exciting proof of Morley's Theorem!
    pi is just a relation between a aphere,
 and its circumscribed hexahedron (diameter = edge-length);
 if you don't know spherical trigonometry, then
 you don't know where y'at, navigationally
 (I see you looking at your GPS, now !-)

 the most compelling reason for 360 degrees,
 that I've seen, aside from its factorability, is that
 its close-enough for the sake of Vedic (sidereal) astrology
 to the lenght of the year, for a quickie consultation
 with an astrocounselor.

 some of this obfuscation "goes away," if
 you just take it in "diadians," and thus pi
 becomes a unit of one spherical "solid" angle.
    however, the "squaring of the circle," and
 the "tetrahedroning of the sphere" don't go-away,
 as far as commeasurability goes.  aren't you happy enough,
 that the sphere has 4 times the area of its GC?

 thus quoth:
  have put it. I would say all polyhedron have 720 dgrs
  (one tetrahedron worth) of curvature.

 no; they have a *deficit* of one tetrahedron's-worth
 of superficial angles.

  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
  >  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:05:37 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Bushonomics

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-MAR-2001 14:05
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Dear Cyberbabble:
    John Quincy Public needs nuke-yellar power.
    If you look at it in terms of infrastructure,
 it's a lot safer than the good, old Mobilsauri, and can be used
 to make hydrogen from the electricity.  The organic hydrocarbons
 that leak naturally from the Redondo Seep, or did, should be left
 for fabrication & chemistry (see the Sci.Am. feature,
 of a couple years ago, on the "[Organic] Oil Seeps in the Gulf
 of Mexico).
    Now that George-the-two-gen-oil-boy has beaten the other,
 2-gen-oil-boy (although Al was greeniac-in-his-own-write),
 we'll have testimony from Dr. Watson, the good ol'boy
 who's run the UN Intl. Panel on Climate Change, is about
 to testify on its Third Digest from the Computerized Simulacra,
 TDCS, he will demonstrate the political fact, that
 the "overall" or global warming model of 1896, has been enforced
 to *mean* climate change, as a matter of attrition
 of all of the weatherfolk who dysagreed with that crappy model,
 during all of the years since the Panel transformed itself
 from outlawing CFCs (the Montreal Protocols, with the help
 of a newly-managed DuPont, whose patents
 on Freon had long-since dysappeared).
    Of course, I agree that the "California" crisis was generated
 by "corporate greed," nominally originating in Texas, and I blame it,
 in part, on term limits in the Legislature, and on a passive media --
 including especially PBS, which promotes the green (party) line.  So,
 how is it that the scion of oil-wealth (if not qualified
 to actually run such a company), by backwardly signing on
 to the "Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto,"
 *not* promoting those self-same cartels; as they say, *cui bono* ??

 As for David Freeman,
 he has admitted that he also developed, along with "green-e,"
 the deregulation stuff, presumably during the same fellowship
 at the Gorby Fdn. (El Presidio, SF, CA).  He's also said
 some truthful things about nukes, although
 he seems to still be dead-set against'em, at this time, alas.

 --Thanks, Brian Quincy Hutchings
 3032 Exposition Blvd. #C, Santa Monica
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 00:22:31 -0500
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Subject:      pi stuff
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Brian,

>firstly, I doubt that Egyptians'd have expressed it,
 >*as* "3.1416,"

  ( i think the quote was 3.16 for the Egyptians)


>since they used a method of "unit fractions"
>that have only one in the numerator (there was one exception,
>which I've forgotte, at the moment-being .-)

  this is interesting...was not aware of this. any refs ?

  that same reference says that Archimedes used polygons
  of 96 sides showing pi to be from 3 1 /7 to 3 10 / 71.

  and that the calculus of Newton and Leibniz was used
  by John Wallis (1616-1703) the englishman, who contributed
  one of the most famous products...

  pi / 2    =   2 / 1  x   2 / 3   x   4 / 3  x  4 / 5   x    6 / 5
                    x    6 / 7    x    8  / 7    x    8 / 9 ...

Liebniz infinite series, unlike Wallis' product for pi,
 is the sum,

     pi / 4 = 1  - 1/3  + 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9  -  1/11 + 1/13 ....

 both   formulas from ....Mathematics and the Imagination

steve
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Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 00:45:08 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
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Kirby,

i have just noticed that the 12 touch points
are not the same for ccp as they are for say,
the 12 points ( 20 faces) of the icosahedron.

the 1,5,5,1 alignment of the icosahedron
[ point up ]

differs from the 4,4,4 alignment of the ccp.
[ viewed in any of the ABA directions ]
[ viewed as 3,6,3 in the ABC directions ]

with the 1,5,5,1 set-up, you only
get/need/sub-divide into tets....
as you have always stated.

with the 4,4,4 alignment you get tets and SBP.
(squared based pyramids)
as seen in the root1/VE/Frequency1.

steve
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Date:         Mon, 5 Mar 2001 23:51:20 -0600
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
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> Hey Steve- Have you ever seen the spinning-laser-beam
> used by drop-ceiling installers. In very large rooms

Yes, but it's got one very simple principle working in their
favor.  One common type uses a floating laser, and a "cup"
of water.  It's self-leveling, and spinning it on water makes
it nearly friction free.

Another uses a single motor which scans a mirror -- the
mirror reflects the beam into a horizontal arrangement, and
then rotates -- scanning out a "plane."

A geodesic version would require motors and optics to
generate the "spin," and then the direction would have
to be changed in some manner...all with significant precision.

Hardly impossible, but significantly more difficult than
spinning a LASER diode on a cup of water, in a single plane.

I wonder if it could be simplified such that it would require
no moving parts?  After all, it's just a system of mirrors -- that
can be represented within a holographic element, with relative
ease.  The beam might be reduced in intensity too much,
though.  That is, after all, why a scanning beam is used.

> opportunity here). So, inside the air-form, people
> could follow the spherically-split,great circle beam
> to hang rebar. No rocket science necessary.

And, it wouldn't be a problem to "adjust" the mesh for
non-spherical airforms -- the same setup would simply
project where the beams intersect the membrane.  This
is really an ingenious idea, Dick -- good job.

     -- Chuck Knight
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Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:05:51 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      dome construction
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Chuck,

> the spinning-laser-beam  used by drop-ceiling installers.

i am afraid that i am still at the "if i only had a valid hub"
stage. perhaps this spinning-laser-beam could be used
for construction in sizable constructions in their future.
i still need to make some prototypes out of wood, metal etc.

i have some basic ideas on making a universal joint that would handle
all vertex conditions. this however, would require actually
making them up ( at great cost perhaps) or with some existing "plumbing
supplies" maybe modified, at very little cost.. it is my belief, at some
point,
others will see the logic of trying to build some "waterman" domes.

i hope, that over time, that this real possibility....constructing some
of these domes, gets accomplished....if not with the help of others,
then i guess it will be up to me ( directly or indirectly ) to at least
get some prototypes  physically built.

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:25:04 -0600
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: dome construction
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> i am afraid that i am still at the "if i only had a valid hub"
> stage. perhaps this spinning-laser-beam could be used
> for construction in sizable constructions in their future.
> i still need to make some prototypes out of wood, metal etc.

Well, the spinning laser beam was mentioned as a way to lay
out rebar within a monolithic dome's airform.  The inflated
airform could serve as a nice projection screen, and then you
would just line up the rebar with the projected lines.

Simple way to do it, right?

(For reference:  Monolithic domes use an inflated balloon
like airform of a vinyl product, on a job site.  They inflate
the form, then enter it through an airlock.  Foam insulation
is sprayed on the interior to stiffen it and, of course, provide
an insulative layer.  Then rebar is placed on the interior
surface and shotcrete is sprayed onto the inner surface.)

BTW:  It wasn't my idea -- I was simply responding, with a
few comments, to Dick Fishbeck's idea for the LASER layout
tool.  Good idea, too...wish I could take credit for it.

> i hope, that over time, that this real possibility....constructing
> some
> of these domes, gets accomplished....if not with the help of
> others,
> then i guess it will be up to me ( directly or indirectly ) to at
> least
> get some prototypes  physically built.

Have you built a Waterman dome, as a miniature model yet?

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:23:08 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      prototypes
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Chuck,

>Have you built a Waterman dome, as a miniature model yet?

only cardboard models, and one beveled acrylic one ....

i got side-tracked with other issues, and have not even
written to existing dome manufactures as of yet. i certainly
would like to see how strong these "domes" can be made.
certainly they could employ those outer hulls techniques ...

>Monolithic domes use an inflated balloon
>like airform of a vinyl product, on a job site.  They inflate
>the form, then enter it through an airlock.  Foam insulation
>is sprayed on the interior to stiffen it and, of course, provide
>an insulative layer.  Then rebar is placed on the interior
>surface and shotcrete is sprayed onto the inner surface


to different sized hulls: say a root 53 and root 50 ( having equal unit
lengths)
or another method....any root having unit length and
the same root using some ratio to that unit length.

i believe that given a proper and solid vertex to connect to,
that even the singular hulls, would be extremely strong...and
when adding some rebar sub-structure, becomes stronger yet.

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:54:33 -0500
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From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: thin shells
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The beam might be reduced in intensity too much,
> though.  That is, after all, why a scanning beam is used.
>      -- Chuck Knight

Nah, a less bright beam, there for a period of time that is there for the inverse of time duration that it is weakened ought to be equally discernable.  But without a cone shaped mirror at which to point the beam, (a perfect one,) it gets tough to produce.  Easier to move a flat mirror and rotate it to produce 360 degree deflection.
BillSF9c
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:27:57 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      more LiveGraphics3D
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i have now got the Martin Kraus LiveGraphics3D
working for both the convex hulls and accumulating
spheres...up to root 99.

http://www.dsuper.net/%7Etinom/ph2000/wp1to13.html

the z = zero planes spheres as green.

and reds for -8, -4, 0, +4, +8 ....  z  plane spheres.

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:20:24 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Geode Theater
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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Here's some details about the Geode Omnimax theater in Paris, France:

 http://www.cite-sciences.fr/english/ala_cite/spectacl/geode/geode_3.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:47:45 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Omnidirectional Halo
In-Reply-To:  <20010305193840.1148.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com>
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>Then, all polygons have 360 dgrs and all vexion have
>720 dgrs.
>

I hope you're being clear with yourself:  all polyhedra do
NOT have 720 degrees of surface angle.  The 720 is called
Descartes' Deficit by many (Fuller also credits Descartes)
and it's a deficit, a minus.  If you multiply all the vertices
of a poly by 360, you'll EXCEED the total number of degrees
in all surface angles by 720.  This does NOT mean all polys
have the same number of degrees in their surface angles --
in fact there's no upper limit on this number (only that it
will be 720 less than another number, obtained by multiplying
the number of vertices by 360).

Some restrictions apply, on what we call a Polyhedron here.
Has to obey V+F=E+2.

Anyway, you probably ARE very clear on this, since Fuller is,
giving many examples with the degrees and the deficit clearly
spelled out in chart/tabular format (in 'Synergetics', repeated
in 'Cosmography').

Kirby

PS:  what Fuller did that Descartes maybe didn't is identify
the deficit with the tetrahedron (which has 720 degrees).
This is also where he got metaphysical with the idea that
Universe, not a system, is aconceptual, but if you _take
away_ a tetrahedron, you get some system of ideas closing
back on itself everywhichway (i.e. a system) -- hence the
"720 degree 'take out' terminology" and the omnidirectional
halo thread.  For more on OH, see one of the oldest web
pages at my site (since 1995 or earlier:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/omnihalo.html
)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:50:26 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: pi calculations
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At 07:48 PM 03/05/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Dick,
>
>some pi stuff.....


http://www.mathforum.com/epigone/geometry-research/torclermcland

related thread (includes a post from me too).

Kirby
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Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:53:09 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the interior angles
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>The other way to figure it is- the number of vertexes
>of a system times 360 is always 720 dgrs more then the
>total number of surface angles of the system. An easy
>way to get the total number of surface angles is to
>multiply the number of triangles times 180 dgrs.

Yeah, this is all good.  You might have to subdivide
surface polygons into triangles to use the 180 trick
though -- many polys are not omnitriangulated.  You
can add the extra edges without adding vertices or
messing up the total degree count.

Anyway, I see that you're clear.  This dispells my
high anxiety.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:43:45 +0430
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:02:55 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: 12 touch points
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-OE38BOh8s4KWiG000001cf@hotmail.com>
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>
>with the 1,5,5,1 set-up, you only
>get/need/sub-divide into tets....
>as you have always stated.

The icosa doesn't form the basis for a lattice that
repeats in a space-filling, repeated way no matter
how you slide your reference unit (the meaning of
"lattice").

Those tetrahedra with which you assemble the icosa
are NOT regular tets, please realize.

John Brawley is the guy most fixated on a packing
strategy that starts with an imploded icosahedron
(no nucleus).  He calls the arrangement Tverse.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:40:35 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      in-out 2
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I don't know anything about programming so ,in hopes
that someone might be interested, here is another clip
that begs making. I am not aware of its existance at
this time.

Have a tet vertex dive though its opposing face. As it
passes through the face the vertex changes from blue
to red. Repeat until all four vertexes have done this
and all are now red. This is a tranformation of a blue
tet into the red tet of negative space. This repeats
endlessly, blue to red to blue to red, one vertex at a
time. Then, to complicate matters, the inverse senario
occurs at the same time in the identical space.

A variation on this transformation is to have the
faces moving in respect to the stationary opposite
vertex that it is approaching, and rotates 90 dgrs as
it moves toward the opposite vertex. It continues to
rotate until the face is opposite its original
position. The same thing happens to the remaining
three faces. There is no loss of rotation momentum.
The rotation processes into the following face as _it_
begins to fall through the next vertex. The total
rotation of the system is 8 x 90 dgrs, or 720 dgrs,
back to the tets zero starting place.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:55:26 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Omnidirectional Halo

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            07-MAR-2001  5:55
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 actually, what Dick saithed is more correct, here,
 than what he'd said about polyhedra "having" 720 degrees;
 they have 720 degrees "of curvature" so-defined.

 thus quoth:
    have put it. I would say all polyhedron have 720 dgrs
    (one tetrahedron worth) of curvature.

   no; they have a *deficit* of one tetrahedron's-worth
   of superficial angles.

    --Les Dukes d'Enron!
    >  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:56:47 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Omnidirectional Halo
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--- Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:
> >Then, all polygons have 360 dgrs and all vexion
> have
> >720 dgrs.
> >
>
> I hope you're being clear with yourself:  all
> polyhedra do
> NOT have 720 degrees of surface angle.  The 720 is
> called
> Descartes' Deficit by many (Fuller also credits
> Descartes)
> and it's a deficit, a minus.  If you multiply all
> the vertices
> of a poly by 360, you'll EXCEED the total number of
> degrees
> in all surface angles by 720.  This does NOT mean
> all polys
> have the same number of degrees in their surface
> angles --
> in fact there's no upper limit on this number (only
> that it
> will be 720 less than another number, obtained by
> multiplying
> the number of vertices by 360).

Yes. I am not talking about surface angle right now. I
am playing on a different tack, which in some ways
make better sense. That sense is that all polygon and
polyhedra are vectorial-aggregates, and always in
groups of six. Those are the six move that each event
comprises.

I don't know if you have followed all the previous
discussion on this alternative counting method. I am
not looking at polygons and polyhedra in the
traditional manner in this discussion.

I am considering the curvature of a polygon or
polyhedra not as a deficit of something but as a
positive measurement of vectoral-deflection. If I
consider a face or plane as having zero degrees
instead of having 360 dgrs, then a polygon has 360
dgrs of curvature and a polyhedra has 720 dgrs of
curvature. (why I am doing this is not yet clear; I am
following a hunch)

A vector is a 'straight' line until its bearing
changes. Thist is the curving, the change in
direction, that I am considering for the sake of
discussion. In a polyhedron, say an octahedron,
compared to a flat piece of paper with no curvature,
the octa's vertex has 120 dgrs of bending/curving and
not 240 dgrs whick is the sum of the four 60 dgrs of
the triangular faces that join to make the vertex in
the first place. They are different considerations. It
is easy to get what I am thinking of if you compare a
tet with an octa. Which has more curvature around its
vertex when flat equals no curvature? The tet has more
curvature than the octa. And the icosa has less
bending/curvature than the octa. And a vertex on a 16
frequency geodesic dome has very little cuvature
around its vertexes, about 0.14 dgrs. When flat is
taken as zero dgrs rather than 360 dgrs, and straight
is called zero dgrs instead of 180 dgrs, the icosa has
60 dgrs of curve, the octa has 120 dgrs of curving and
the tetrahedron has 180 dgrs of curvature, the most
rather than the least. It all depends on our
benchmark. It is like using the tet as unit volume
rather than the cube. It is a different starting
point. Again, I am trying out a different idea. Imay
be wasting people's time. Maybe not.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:21:16 -0500
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From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: HELP ME
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Try
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
and in the search window put
teen
teens
teenager
youth
and similar words
BillSF9c

"List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works"
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU> wrote:
>
> Hello
> I am Hamed and I Have 20 Years Old.
> I Want Chat To 10 - 20 Years old People.
> Please Help me and Give me Any address List For
> This... Please...
>
> Thanks.
> hamed
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Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:47:53 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      NOT regular tets ?
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Kirby,

>Those tetrahedra with which you assemble the icosa
>are NOT regular tets, please realize

what kind of tets are they then ?
i have always assumed they were regular tets.

and in a related issue....
are you in agreement....that there are difference in 12
'kissing points" for the ccp from that of the 12  points
of the icosa ? ( and therefore the phase.. the kissing points
is somewhat misleading, as there are at least these
two different valid sets of 12 around one formats. )

steve
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Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:47:54 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re Ada Byron
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What does all this have to do with Bucky?  The connections
are there, for the discerning reader.  -- Kirby

======================

Jim Holt has an article in the recent New Yorker (March 5,
2001) wherein he takes aim at Ada Byron's reputation as the
first computer programmer, although he also spends time
debunking the myth that she also invented the computer, which
is a rumor I hadn't heard before, but is what the magazine
cover advertises as the central question to be addressed inside
(clever marketing).

The cartoon that goes with the piece helps underscore that
we're dealing with polemics/propaganda here -- it shows the
opium and 'Delusions of Grandeur' potion open at table-side,
and a scrap of paper proving she's a ditz-brain, because she
carried forward a printer's typo setting a cosine on an
approach towards infinity, whereas we all know the cosine
function maxes out at 1.

I found the article somewhat mean-spirited, busying itself with
the details of her personal life much as a lawyer would attempt
to sway a jury by calling character into question -- in ways
rather tangential to the case.  Since I'd seen 'Erin Brokovich'
lately on video, it called to mind the trial scene wherein
Julia Roberts loses out to the emergency room doctor who was
clearly in the wrong -- we know he's wrong because, as quasi-
omniscient spectators, we're all eye-wittnesses to the collision.
Because she's had two husbands already, and cusses enough
to make this an R-rated film (tsk), she's clearly undeserving
of any compensation. Likewise, Ada had all these lovers and
husbands and nervous breakdowns and other dysfunctions and
so couldn't possibly be the kind of person we'd want to
dignify in the literature with the august title of 'first
computer programmer'.

More to the point, perhaps, is whether she understood much
math.  She wasn't a math whiz, Holt makes clear.  She was the
daughter of a poet with celebrity status who worked hard to
bridge what C.P. Snow would later identify as a chasm between
two cultures:  the humanities and the math-sciences.  In her
writing, she worked the shuttle-cock between these two worlds,
weaving a seamless tapestry (never finished), thereby exciting
a lay audience about the possibility of computers, while
likewise addressing some of the philosophical questions that
would surely occur in the everyday mind:  could these machines
really think, become intelligent creatures eventually?

Holt considers her answer to the above question ("no") rather
facile, saying she neglected to consider how stored-program
computers could rewrite their own programs and therefore get
out from under their Frankenstein-creators to some degree, and
beat them at chess.  This somewhat betray's Holt's own naivete
I think.  Big Blue relied a lot on brute force, advances in
hardware that made the same algorithms execute much faster.
Big Blue was not some breakthrough in self-modifying neural
nets, and to this day you can fool a chess-playing computer
with situations that a child (not a prodigy) would not bungle.

Sir Roger Penrose brings up such chess cases when describing
the space of non-computable problems, where the human mind
seems to venture and shine in ways that no rule-following
artificial intelligence (self-modifying or not) has ever
managed.  Whether or not Penrose is correct regarding his
version of "no" to the same question, the point is this is not
a closed issue, settled long ago in the minds of all trully
well-informed thinkers.  Ada's position is still tenable.

Does a person need to be a math whiz to be the first computer
programmer?  By Holt's own argument, if we take the title from
Ada, we should bestow it on that French programmable-loom guy.
The loom was for weaving fabrics, not for computing Bernoulli
numbers or navigation tables.  There's no mention of how much
calculus went into this loom design -- also no mention, while
we're on the subject of the computer's forebearers, of
programmable musical instruments (like player pianos and
such).  Anyway, by Holt's own criteria, the answer is clearly
"no, you don't have to be a math whiz" -- as his own candidate
for first computer programmer wasn't either (or even if he was,
this isn't documented are proferred as relevant evidence).

Ada's chief sin, and why she's so undeserving of the title
apparently, is not because she failed to demonstrate a high
level of math skill, but that she seemed to think herself some
kind of genius.  Her sin was pride, fancying herself the equal
of her betters, even when she clearly had a weak grasp on the
cosine function.  The purpose of this New Yorker review is to
put this upstart tart in her place, to take back this
recognition and title as from an unworthy, a pretender, an
imposter.  That so many websites celebrate her contribution
to the literature is regarded askance, as a scam perpetrated by
know-nothing New Agey types who likewise celebrate crop
circles, healing crystals and feminist causes (that was my
impression anyway -- perhaps I'm projecting).

But what Ada did is what Babbage wanted her to do (by Holt's
own analysis) which is to make the vision of the Analytical
Engine compelling and 'the talk of the town' in liberal-minded,
high society circles.  To accomplish this, she needed enough
credibility with the literati to appear well-informed, and she
got this by knowing enough about the Analytical Engine and how
it worked to speculate about its future and possibilities.
True, she got bogged down in the details of how to break down
the Bernoulli Number calcs into smaller steps, and Babbage
helped her out.  She wasn't a math whiz, we've already
discoverd.

Ada was inspired by the Babbage engine and what it might
portend.  She wrapped a lifeless machine (or paper blueprints
for same -- it was never actually built) in a mix of fantasy,
numbers and charts, and breathed life into it, by creating a
blend of science fiction and metaphysics that was credible both
to her readers and to herself.  Disbelief was suspended and
dispelled, such that to this day we remember Ada and her
antics, and the impact she made on the thinking of her day.
She wasn't trying to hoodwink her audience.  The exercise
with the Bernoulli Numbers is proof of her integrity -- she
struggled to comprehend the Analytical Engine for exactly
what it was, even as she speculated about the future.

Ada got out on stage and played the attractive young daughter
of a romantic poet (which she was), imbued with dawning
comprehension of times ahead (which she had).  In so doing,
she did what many poets have done:  used her intuition
(perhaps at times opium-enhanced - tsk) and creative writing
skills to anticipate TomorrowLand.  True, Babbage wasn't
suddenly awash in funding as a result, but wheels of this
magnitude turn slowly, as many a poet-futurist has found out.

So we might argue that Ada was merely the first popularizer of
computer programming, a celebrity who brought attention to a
nascent discipline in ways a more stodgey gentleman never
could.  But to be a "first popularizer" of something that
doesn't really exist yet in the public mind is to achieve more
of a breakthrough than simply popularizing.  And she not only
popularized the idea of programming, but she envisioned the
genre of speculative literature that would grow up around it, a
combination of science fiction laced with philosophy.  And in
so doing, she projected an image of her persona, as a kind of
genius and enchantress, adding color and imagination to what
had was hitherto colorless and dryly empirical.

It's no accident, then, that the "myth of Ada" is still around
to be debunked to this day -- she set her name on a trajectory,
which has only succeeded in gathering momentum over time.
Again, this is something poets are oft times good at, and it's
a testament to the power of their magic when they manage to
make a lasting imprint without indulging in carnage or
increasing the need for new war memorials.  Of course sometimes
a magnum opus sets in motion, deliberately or inadvertently, a
chain reaction with diabolical consequences. Ada, though, seems
to have had a largely benign influence, and those who worship
in her temple don't seem especially prone to violence or mayhem
-- given the number of personality cults which do, that's
another point in her favor.

So I, for one, am in favor keeping the title right where it
belongs, with Ada, because when she jumped so willfully into
the deep end, she made an excellent splash with lasting
precessional effects.  In giving her the title, you might say
I'm taking a rather light-hearted approach to the game of "me
first" (of priority), which men especially seem anxious to play
with grim and loveless fascination.  Giving the title to
someone as clearly "unmeritorious" (as the jealous zealots
might see it) seems to detract from deadly seriousness of the
entire enterprise, turning the earnest business of proving
priority into marketing, show business, a dramatic production,
a circus, a game touched by comedy, caprice and hype.  Yep,
that's the spirit.  It's a casting decision, and in my
judgement this Ada Byron character has done a creditable job,
and should keep developing in this role. It's her niche and
she's earned it.  Others may (and do) disagree, but I'm unmoved
to alter my aesthetic judgement at this time.

I also think that articles such as this in the New Yorker,
aimed at cutting her off at this late date from her rightful
inheritance, provide all the more reason to keep her entrenched
right where she is.  Thank you Ada Byron, and may you live long
and prosper in our shared memory.

Kirby
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Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:46:30 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: FURNITURE
Comments: To: Pedro Reissig <preissig@movi.com.ar>
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Pedro,

Here's a link to Fuller's Hanging Storage Shelves patent #4,377,114:
http://209.196.135.250/hanging_storage.htm

See also:
'Inventions' pp.294-98 and
'The Artifacts of R Buckminster Fuller, Vol 4' pp.378-80

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pedro Reissig" <preissig@movi.com.ar>
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: FURNITURE


> Joe, hope all is well.  I was never able to locate the tensegrity shelves.
> each time I try to download it there is error.  Might you be able to mail
me
> a file, I would most appreciate it.
> thanks and regards, Pedro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> To: <preissig@movi.com.ar>
> Cc: "_Geodesic" <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 12:57 PM
> Subject: FURNITURE
>
> > Pedro,
> >
> > For some leads on tensegrity furniture see:
> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/FullerRB-2-Fz.htm
> > (scroll down to "Furniture")
> >
> > Ref: http://www.bfi.org/guest_comments.htm (bottom)
> >
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:04:21 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles
In-Reply-To:  <200103051451.f25EpIH00570@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 05-MAR-2001  6:51
;

Brian- I can not find anything about this. Is this for
real?

Dick

see Ahrrenius and Alfven's
> diagrams
>  of the five-fold orbits of the asteroids (frame of
> ref
>  is frozen onto the line between Sun and Jupiter .-)
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Date:         Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:51:58 -0800
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              2001 19:51:11 -0500 (EST)
From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      NOTregular tets
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    The icosahedron is a contracted vector equilibrium. The vector
equilibrium gets its name from the equality of its radial and
circumferential vectors, which describe regular tetrahedra and half
octahedra. The icosahedron with radius of one has edges of 1.0515 (approx).
                                            Steve (M)
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Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:33:32 -0300
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From:         Pedro Reissig <preissig@MOVI.COM.AR>
Subject:      Re: FURNITURE
Comments: To: Joe S Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com>
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T hanks Joe.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
To: "Pedro Reissig" <preissig@movi.com.ar>
Cc: "_Geodesic" <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: FURNITURE


> Pedro,
>
> Here's a link to Fuller's Hanging Storage Shelves patent #4,377,114:
> http://209.196.135.250/hanging_storage.htm
>
> See also:
> 'Inventions' pp.294-98 and
> 'The Artifacts of R Buckminster Fuller, Vol 4' pp.378-80
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pedro Reissig" <preissig@movi.com.ar>
> To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:36 AM
> Subject: Re: FURNITURE
>
>
> > Joe, hope all is well.  I was never able to locate the tensegrity
shelves.
> > each time I try to download it there is error.  Might you be able to
mail
> me
> > a file, I would most appreciate it.
> > thanks and regards, Pedro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> > To: <preissig@movi.com.ar>
> > Cc: "_Geodesic" <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 12:57 PM
> > Subject: FURNITURE
> >
> > > Pedro,
> > >
> > > For some leads on tensegrity furniture see:
> > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/FullerRB-2-Fz.htm
> > > (scroll down to "Furniture")
> > >
> > > Ref: http://www.bfi.org/guest_comments.htm (bottom)
> > >
> > > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>
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Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:34:06 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      NOT regular tets ?
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Kirby,

in cosmography page 128, Fuller shows the
icosahedron at 18.51 tet units ( minisystem volumes )

he says, "the vertexes of an isotropic vector matrix are
congruent with the centers of unit-radius spheres in
[ ccp ] close packing. all the geometric systems below
[ which includes the icosahedron ]
are congruently describable within the unit-length isotropic
vector matrix."

therefore, my conclusion here is that it requires 20 REGULAR
tets to comprise an icosahedron. and i question the validity
of the 18.51 tet volumes...which i content should be exactly 20.


on page 129, he shows the universal units for the
icosahedron at ...surface are 8.660 and volume at 2.1813.

since the surface area is 8.660, then each of the 20 has 0.433.
i suspect that 0.433 =  (root 3) / 4

triangular Areas....
which is A = 1/2 bh, or
( root 3 ) / 4 = 1/2 (1) h   or
root 3 = 2 h
h =  (root 3 ) / 2

so, 20 times  1/2 (1) (root 3) / 2
or 5 times root 3 = 8.66025

so, it would seem that with this 8.660 figure, and that he is
calculating using unit edge to acquire this.

since he maintains that the icosahedron is all unit lengths...
"are congruently describable within the unit-length isotropic
vector matrix", then i do not at all get where this 18.51
comes from.  this should be 20 tets and NOT 18.51.

i question his volume figure of 2.1813 on page 129...
and suggest that it should 20 x 0.11785 or 2.3570 !!

can anyone explain to me where this 18.51 comes from ?

steve
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From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      NOT regular tets
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    If you look at the outside of the vector equilibrium, its faces are
squares and triangles. When the VE contracts slightly, the square faces skew
into two equilateral triangles each, which are identical to the triangle
faces already existing on the VE. This results in a stable, triangulated
polyhedron, which the VE is not. The inside vectors (from the center) are
shorter now than the edge vectors. Some volume is lost in this process, but
what is gained is a self stabilized figure. The VE is an equilibrious
transforming phase, but an icosahedron is a good basis for actual
structures. Too bad about the odd volume but that's life I guess.
                                                Steve Miller
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Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:17:26 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
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At 04:47 PM 03/07/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Kirby,
>
>>Those tetrahedra with which you assemble the icosa
>>are NOT regular tets, please realize
>
>what kind of tets are they then ?

Irregular.

>i have always assumed they were regular tets.
>

Lots of people make this mistake.

>and in a related issue....
>are you in agreement....that there are difference in 12
>'kissing points" for the ccp from that of the 12  points
>of the icosa ? ( and therefore the phase.. the kissing points
>is somewhat misleading, as there are at least these
>two different valid sets of 12 around one formats. )
>
>steve

There's also the HCP, which doesn't use the same 12
either.  It's misleading to say there's only one way
to pack spheres.

However, the icosahedral beginning doesn't lead to a
lattice.

Kirby
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Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:16:41 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      irregular tets ?
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Kirby,

when the 12 around 1 is placed in this fashion,

( as is depicted in the first picture on left  ) at...

http://www.intouch.nl/sqrt-1/ErO/img-IDI.htm


and then properly aligned to standard XYZ...

not aligned as 1,5,5,1  ( page 203 example B)
but rather as 2,2,4,2,2... ( example A...also from "Cosmography" )

then this would equate to 20 REGULAR tet volumes
...would it not ?

steve
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Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:27:16 -0500
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      Re: irregular tets ?
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No, they're not regular tets in an icosahedron, the icosahedron edge length is
about 5% longer than the distance from any vertex to the center.

from my 1/1/01 post "re: bcc poof"

...I don't mean to start an argument, nobody has displayed confusion about
this. If it's a surprise to anybody, they should consider the
icosahedron. Imagine 12 spheres each one centered on one of the 12
icosahedron vertexes. Each sphere touches 5 others if the diameter of
the spheres is the same as the edge length of the icosahedron. You might
think they could also each be contacting a 13th  sphere centered on the
center of the icosahedron, but actually there is not room inside the 12
vertex spheres to hold a 13th central sphere, the room is about 5%
short.

Or, think of taking 13 spheres and arranging them so one is in the
center, and the 12 others all touch it. It will not be possible to roll
the 12 surface spheres around so that each of them touches the central
sphere and 5 others. You'd have to make the surface spheres ~5% bigger
than the central sphere to do that. If all 13 spheres are the same size,
each surface sphere can touch 4 others, in the vector equilibrium
arrangement (with 6 squares and 8 triangles formed by  surface spheres.)
You can roll the surface spheres around into an icosahedral arrangment
("jitterbugging" -- I bet Kirby has already made a movie of this!) but
if you do, NONE of the surface spheres will be touching each  other. Or
you can roll spheres around on the surface so one surface sphere is
touching 5 others, but that will open up gaps elsewhere so some other
surface spheres contact at most 2 other surface spheres.

It is the infinite variety of arrangements of 12 spheres around 1 that
allows CLOSER packing than hcp, except in the very special  container
shapes tailored for hcp.  ...



----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:16 PM
Subject: irregular tets ?


Kirby,

when the 12 around 1 is placed in this fashion,

( as is depicted in the first picture on left  ) at...

http://www.intouch.nl/sqrt-1/ErO/img-IDI.htm


and then properly aligned to standard XYZ...

not aligned as 1,5,5,1  ( page 203 example B)
but rather as 2,2,4,2,2... ( example A...also from "Cosmography" )

then this would equate to 20 REGULAR tet volumes
...would it not ?

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:47:44 +0100
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From:         Mohamad <parsimperial@JET.ES>
Subject:      Re: HELP ME
Comments: To: tina <tina@mail.dci.co.ir>,
          Jacquie Whelan <jacquie13@acncanada.net>,
          Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>,
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          Ryan Simantel <RTSimantel@aol.com>,
          Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>,
          sherlyn@fl.net.au, AHMAD SHARIFI <fadaksoft@yahoo.com>,
          Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>,
          Mike Reynolds <michael_reynolds@yahoo.com>,
          "Karen R." <IndigoKare@aol.com>,
          River Poet <riverpoet2001@yahoo.com>,
          PlatedHeart@aol.com, Glenn Norgren <waux@GENEVAONLINE.COM>,
          "L-Soft list server at NETSPACE.ORG (1.8d)" <LISTSERV@NETSPACE.ORG>,
          Ndgogrls@aol.com, mrowan@gmu.edu, Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>,
          "McKay Demont, Elle" <Elle.McKayDemont@Wausau.com>,
          Elaine McDonnell <etm101@psu.edu>,
          marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>,
          Marion_O'Sullivan@health.irlgov.ie, majordomo@smoe.org, M
          <callum2v@MS15.HINET.NET>,
          "listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu" <listserv@ccunyvm.cuny.edu>,
          "L-Soft list server at LISTS.BIOCHEMSOC.ORG.UK (1.8d)"
          <LISTSERV@LISTS.BIOCHEMSOC.ORG.UK>,
          LisalisaA@aol.com, Lisa071573@aol.com, libra2000_2000@yahoo.com,
          Claudine Lapsky <Claudine@ukonline.co.uk>,
          Christian Koller <christian@physik.htu.at>,
          "Jakkieblue =)" <Jakkieblue@rcn.com>,
          indigo-girls-request@NETSPACE.ORG, INDIGO-GIRLS@NETSPACE.ORG,
          Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>,
          Chee Hill <Cheebug5@cs.com>,
          hare@optonline.net, Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@prodigy.net>,
          Nancy Golumbia <nancyg2@sas.upenn.edu>,
          giraffe44 <giraffe44@email.msn.com>,
          Sarah Gerchman <miss_mary6@HOTMAIL.COM>,
          Diane Gagnon <dispdmg@fastdial.net>,
          FUGITIV472@aol.com, Greg Flamer <gflame@megsinet.net>,
          Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>,
          Bill' 'Eagleton <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>,
          e.bean@neu.edu, dposh1 dposh1 <dposh1@edsamail.com.ph>,
          CrZ4Indigo@aol.com, Cliff Cole <cliffcole@earthlink.net>,
          "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)"
          <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>,
          Barbara Bordner <RitesofPassage9@webtv.net>,
          Awais Baig <awais_baig_kpmg@yahoo.com>,
          "M. Anderson" <melissa@u.washington.edu>,
          System Administrator <postmaster@mail.dci.co.ir>,
          ACCoats@aol.com, "~ d b ~" <kotzebue61@HOTMAIL.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: tina=20
  To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works ; Jacquie =
Whelan ; Steve Waterman ; W3POOH@aol.com ; Kirby Urner ; L-Soft list =
server at OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY (1.8d) ; L-Soft list server at UGA =
(1.8d) ; Nesbit Twothousand ; tina ; tina ; Microsoft Outlook Express =
Team ; tracy & da SWAMPdogs ; Mail Delivery Subsystem ; =
SubcityII@aol.com ; Catherine Spinale ; Ryan Simantel ; Mark Siegmund ; =
sherlyn@fl.net.au ; AHMAD SHARIFI ; Patrick Salsbury ; Mike Reynolds ; =
Karen R. ; River Poet ; PlatedHeart@aol.com ; Glenn Norgren ; L-Soft =
list server at NETSPACE.ORG (1.8d) ; Ndgogrls@aol.com ; mrowan@gmu.edu ; =
Joe S Moore ; Mohamad ; McKay Demont, Elle ; Elaine McDonnell ; =
marksomers ; Marion_O'Sullivan@health.irlgov.ie ; majordomo@smoe.org ; M =
; listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu ; L-Soft list server at =
LISTS.BIOCHEMSOC.ORG.UK (1.8d) ; LisalisaA@aol.com ; Lisa071573@aol.com =
; libra2000_2000@yahoo.com ; Claudine Lapsky ; Christian Koller ; =
Jakkieblue =3D) ; indigo-girls-request@NETSPACE.ORG ; =
INDIGO-GIRLS@NETSPACE.ORG ; Brian Hutchings ; Chee Hill ; =
hare@optonline.net ; Dexter Graphic ; Nancy Golumbia ; giraffe44 ; Sarah =
Gerchman ; Diane Gagnon ; FUGITIV472@aol.com ; Greg Flamer ; Dick =
Fischbeck ; 'Bill' 'Eagleton' ; e.bean@neu.edu ; dposh1 dposh1 ; =
CrZ4Indigo@aol.com ; Cliff Cole ; L-Soft list server at University at =
Buffalo (1.8d) ; Barbara Bordner ; Awais Baig ; M. Anderson ; System =
Administrator ; ACCoats@aol.com ; ~ d b ~=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:13 PM
  Subject: HELP ME


  Hello
  I am Hamed and I Have 20 Years Old.
  I Want Chat To 10 - 20 Years old People.
  Please Help me and Give me Any address List For
  This... Please...
  =20
  Thanks.
  hamed

  Hi is me Mohamad Hossein

  I have an adress that can help you is "terra.com" but in your e-mail =
you didn=B4t talk so much about the family.


  Mohamad Hossein & family =20


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:tina@mail.dci.co.ir" =
title=3Dtina@mail.dci.co.ir>tina</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU"=20
  title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>List for the discussion of=20
  Buckminster Fuller's works</A> ; <A =
href=3D"mailto:jacquie13@acncanada.net"=20
  title=3Djacquie13@acncanada.net>Jacquie Whelan</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM" =
title=3Dswaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>Steve=20
  Waterman</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:W3POOH@aol.com"=20
  title=3DW3POOH@aol.com>W3POOH@aol.com</A> ; <A =
href=3D"mailto:pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM"=20
  title=3Dpdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>Kirby Urner</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:LISTSERV@LISTSERV.OKSTATE.EDU"=20
  title=3DLISTSERV@LISTSERV.OKSTATE.EDU>L-Soft list server at OKLAHOMA =
STATE=20
  UNIVERSITY (1.8d)</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU"=20
  title=3DLISTSERV@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8d)</A> =
; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:nesbit2000@yahoo.co.uk" =
title=3Dnesbit2000@yahoo.co.uk>Nesbit=20
  Twothousand</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:tina@mail.dci.co.ir"=20
  title=3Dtina@mail.dci.co.ir>tina</A> ; <A =
href=3D"mailto:tina@mail.dci.ir.co"=20
  title=3Dtina@mail.dci.ir.co>tina</A> ; <A =
href=3D"mailto:oe5@microsoft.com"=20
  title=3Doe5@microsoft.com>Microsoft Outlook Express Team</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:clumber@bigfoot.com" title=3Dclumber@bigfoot.com>tracy =
&amp; da=20
  SWAMPdogs</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@mail1.digital.com"=20
  title=3DMAILER-DAEMON@mail1.digital.com>Mail Delivery Subsystem</A> ; =
<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:SubcityII@aol.com" =
title=3DSubcityII@aol.com>SubcityII@aol.com</A>=20
  ; <A href=3D"mailto:CSpinale@PMN.com" =
title=3DCSpinale@PMN.com>Catherine=20
  Spinale</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:RTSimantel@aol.com"=20
  title=3DRTSimantel@aol.com>Ryan Simantel</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:siegmund@THEGRID.NET" title=3Dsiegmund@THEGRID.NET>Mark =

  Siegmund</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:sherlyn@fl.net.au"=20
  title=3Dsherlyn@fl.net.au>sherlyn@fl.net.au</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:fadaksoft@yahoo.com" title=3Dfadaksoft@yahoo.com>AHMAD =
SHARIFI</A>=20
  ; <A href=3D"mailto:salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM" =
title=3Dsalsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>Patrick=20
  Salsbury</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:michael_reynolds@yahoo.com"=20
  title=3Dmichael_reynolds@yahoo.com>Mike Reynolds</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:IndigoKare@aol.com" title=3DIndigoKare@aol.com>Karen =
R.</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:riverpoet2001@yahoo.com" =
title=3Driverpoet2001@yahoo.com>River=20
  Poet</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:PlatedHeart@aol.com"=20
  title=3DPlatedHeart@aol.com>PlatedHeart@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:waux@GENEVAONLINE.COM" =
title=3Dwaux@GENEVAONLINE.COM>Glenn=20
  Norgren</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:LISTSERV@NETSPACE.ORG"=20
  title=3DLISTSERV@NETSPACE.ORG>L-Soft list server at NETSPACE.ORG =
(1.8d)</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Ndgogrls@aol.com" =
title=3DNdgogrls@aol.com>Ndgogrls@aol.com</A> ;=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:mrowan@gmu.edu" =
title=3Dmrowan@gmu.edu>mrowan@gmu.edu</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:joemoore@CRUZIO.COM" title=3Djoemoore@CRUZIO.COM>Joe S =
Moore</A> ;=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:parsimperial@jet.es" =
title=3Dparsimperial@jet.es>Mohamad</A> ;=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:Elle.McKayDemont@Wausau.com"=20
  title=3DElle.McKayDemont@Wausau.com>McKay Demont, Elle</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:etm101@psu.edu" title=3Detm101@psu.edu>Elaine =
McDonnell</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM"=20
  title=3Dmarksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>marksomers</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Marion_O'Sullivan@health.irlgov.ie"=20
  =
title=3D"Marion_O'Sullivan@health.irlgov.ie">Marion_O'Sullivan@health.irl=
gov.ie</A>=20
  ; <A href=3D"mailto:majordomo@smoe.org"=20
  title=3Dmajordomo@smoe.org>majordomo@smoe.org</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:callum2v@MS15.HINET.NET" =
title=3Dcallum2v@MS15.HINET.NET>M</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu"=20
  title=3Dlistserv@ccunyvm.cuny.edu>listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:LISTSERV@LISTS.BIOCHEMSOC.ORG.UK"=20
  title=3DLISTSERV@LISTS.BIOCHEMSOC.ORG.UK>L-Soft list server at=20
  LISTS.BIOCHEMSOC.ORG.UK (1.8d)</A> ; <A =
href=3D"mailto:LisalisaA@aol.com"=20
  title=3DLisalisaA@aol.com>LisalisaA@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Lisa071573@aol.com"=20
  title=3DLisa071573@aol.com>Lisa071573@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:libra2000_2000@yahoo.com"=20
  title=3Dlibra2000_2000@yahoo.com>libra2000_2000@yahoo.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Claudine@ukonline.co.uk" =
title=3DClaudine@ukonline.co.uk>Claudine=20
  Lapsky</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:christian@physik.htu.at"=20
  title=3Dchristian@physik.htu.at>Christian Koller</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Jakkieblue@rcn.com" =
title=3DJakkieblue@rcn.com>Jakkieblue =3D)</A> ;=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:indigo-girls-request@NETSPACE.ORG"=20
  =
title=3Dindigo-girls-request@NETSPACE.ORG>indigo-girls-request@NETSPACE.O=
RG</A>=20
  ; <A href=3D"mailto:INDIGO-GIRLS@NETSPACE.ORG"=20
  title=3DINDIGO-GIRLS@NETSPACE.ORG>INDIGO-GIRLS@NETSPACE.ORG</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US"=20
  title=3Dr001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>Brian Hutchings</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Cheebug5@cs.com" title=3DCheebug5@cs.com>Chee Hill</A> =
; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:hare@optonline.net"=20
  title=3Dhare@optonline.net>hare@optonline.net</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:dextergraphic@prodigy.net" =
title=3Ddextergraphic@prodigy.net>Dexter=20
  Graphic</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:nancyg2@sas.upenn.edu"=20
  title=3Dnancyg2@sas.upenn.edu>Nancy Golumbia</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:giraffe44@email.msn.com"=20
  title=3Dgiraffe44@email.msn.com>giraffe44</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:miss_mary6@HOTMAIL.COM" =
title=3Dmiss_mary6@HOTMAIL.COM>Sarah=20
  Gerchman</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:dispdmg@fastdial.net"=20
  title=3Ddispdmg@fastdial.net>Diane Gagnon</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:FUGITIV472@aol.com"=20
  title=3DFUGITIV472@aol.com>FUGITIV472@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:gflame@megsinet.net" title=3Dgflame@megsinet.net>Greg =
Flamer</A> ;=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com" =
title=3Ddick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>Dick=20
  Fischbeck</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET"=20
  title=3DOOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>'Bill' 'Eagleton'</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:e.bean@neu.edu" =
title=3De.bean@neu.edu>e.bean@neu.edu</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:dposh1@edsamail.com.ph" =
title=3Ddposh1@edsamail.com.ph>dposh1=20
  dposh1</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:CrZ4Indigo@aol.com"=20
  title=3DCrZ4Indigo@aol.com>CrZ4Indigo@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:cliffcole@earthlink.net" =
title=3Dcliffcole@earthlink.net>Cliff=20
  Cole</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU"=20
  title=3DLISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>L-Soft list server at =
University at=20
  Buffalo (1.8d)</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:RitesofPassage9@webtv.net"=20
  title=3DRitesofPassage9@webtv.net>Barbara Bordner</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:awais_baig_kpmg@yahoo.com" =
title=3Dawais_baig_kpmg@yahoo.com>Awais=20
  Baig</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:melissa@u.washington.edu"=20
  title=3Dmelissa@u.washington.edu>M. Anderson</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:postmaster@mail.dci.co.ir" =
title=3Dpostmaster@mail.dci.co.ir>System=20
  Administrator</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:ACCoats@aol.com"=20
  title=3DACCoats@aol.com>ACCoats@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:kotzebue61@HOTMAIL.COM" =
title=3Dkotzebue61@HOTMAIL.COM>~ d b ~</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 07, 2001 =
5:13=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> HELP ME</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am Hamed&nbsp;and I Have 20 Years=20
  Old.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I Want Chat To 10 - 20 Years old=20
  People.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please Help me and Give me Any =
address List=20
  For</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This... Please...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hamed</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi is me Mohamad Hossein</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have an adress that can help you=20
  is&nbsp;"terra.com" but in your e-mail you didn=B4t talk so much about =
the=20
  family.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mohamad =
Hossein&nbsp;&amp;=20
  family</FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0A808.A4CD5A20--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:25:10 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: HELP ME
In-Reply-To:  <001f01c0a800$5ff91680$3244253e@equium3200m>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

If Mohamed has posted the mailing list for GEODESIC,
then it looks like we have 51 readers. Is this about
right? Jeezum, if so, we are in very slim company when
considering the 6 billion fellow passengers on this
ship!!!

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 05:23:21 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: HELP ME

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            08-MAR-2001  5:23
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 be that as it may, since
 I'm getting 2 of his posts in my box,
 it must be that he's got *some* of the list
 on his address-book.

 thus quoth:
    From: tina=20
    To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works ; Jacquie =
  Whelan ; Steve Waterman ; W3POOH@aol.com ; Kirby Urner ; L-Soft list =
  server at OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY (1.8d) ; L-Soft list server at UGA =
  (1.8d) ; Nesbit Twothousand ; tina ; tina ; Microsoft Outlook Express =
  Team ; tracy & da SWAMPdogs ; Mail Delivery Subsystem ; =
  SubcityII@aol.com ; Catherine Spinale ; Ryan Simantel ; Mark Siegmund ; =
  sherlyn@fl.net.au ; AHMAD SHARIFI ; Patrick Salsbury ; Mike Reynolds ; =
  Karen R. ; River Poet ; PlatedHeart@aol.com ; Glenn Norgren ; L-Soft =
  list server at NETSPACE.ORG (1.8d) ; Ndgogrls@aol.com ; mrowan@gmu.edu ;
 =
 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 05:44:04 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Another alert on climate change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            08-MAR-2001  5:44
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 worry, be happy.  bp is the #1 steward/husbander/game-warden,
 "up" there; they are going to do everything, they say,
 repeatedly in the "beyond petroleum" ads, that is possible
 to make it as expens-- I mean, as environementally-correct
 as is possible, as also our #1 dystributor of the goo
 for automobiles; yahoo (tm) !!

 thus quoth:
  Does anyone else know anything about this?

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http;//www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 05:46:24 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sum of the angles

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            08-MAR-2001  5:46
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 like, totally ... OK;
 I haven't actually checked the work!

 thus quoth:
  real?

  Dick

  see Ahrrenius and Alfven's
  > diagrams
  >  of the five-fold orbits of the asteroids (frame of

 >--Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >http;//www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 05:59:32 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re Ada Byron

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            08-MAR-2001  5:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 so, does he fall for the usual "von Neumann did it" stuff,
 instead?...  I'd agree that it's a matter of serious obfuscation
 to employ the Jacquard Loom to ignore the folks
 that really did further the art;
 I'd just assume that Lovelace and Babbage were familiar
 with Leibniz' work (although y'never know,
 with the official heresy o'Christ, Isaac;
 so-much for knowing "the" calculus .-)
    on the wayside,
 Big Blue was re-programmed on the fly
 by a team of chessmen; remind you of Humpty Dumpty?...
 I agree with Sir Rog!

 thus quoth:
  Does a person need to be a math whiz to be the first computer

 by definition, in one sense!

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >>http;//www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:24:23 +0430
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From:         tina <tina@MAIL.DCI.CO.IR>
Subject:      Re: HELP ME
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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oh... No... Mr Dick... Mohamad is not In This List.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: HELP ME


> If Mohamed has posted the mailing list for GEODESIC,
> then it looks like we have 51 readers. Is this about
> right? Jeezum, if so, we are in very slim company when
> considering the 6 billion fellow passengers on this
> ship!!!
>
> Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:05:58 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-OE51IBXEHt3V5g00002186@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>
> on page 129, he shows the universal units for the
> icosahedron at ...surface are 8.660 and volume at 2.1813.

Steve-This part I can answer. These measurements are based
on a cube-as-unit-volume rather than the
tetrahedron-as-unit-volume. This cube has an edge length of
one. The resulting icosahedron edge length is equal to the
sqrt of two, which comes from the tet edge length as the
diagonal of said cube. I think.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:12:01 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      another cosmog ?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On page 224, how can the area of a cube with an edge length
of sqrt2 be 1.01387? This must be an error.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:16:06 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-OE51IBXEHt3V5g00002186@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Kirby,
>
> in cosmography page 128, Fuller shows the
> icosahedron at 18.51 tet units ( minisystem volumes )
>
> he says, "the vertexes of an isotropic vector matrix are
> congruent with the centers of unit-radius spheres in
> [ ccp ] close packing. all the geometric systems below
> [ which includes the icosahedron ]
> are congruently describable within the unit-length
> isotropic
> vector matrix."
>
> therefore, my conclusion here is that it requires 20
> REGULAR
> tets to comprise an icosahedron. and i question the
> validity
> of the 18.51 tet volumes...which i content should be
> exactly 20.
>
Steve- If this is true, what would the volume of the VE be?
24? Can not be, I do not think.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:24:20 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      topology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I am beginning to get that the topological equivalence of
the volumes of two different systems is NOT the same thing
as the special-case frequency/measured volumes of the same
two systems. This is why p. 199 of _C_ says the tetrahedral
volume of an octahedron is 2 and not 4. And why the
tetrahedral volume of the icosahedron is 5 and not 18.51.
Can anyone make this easier to understand?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:30:50 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20010308081726.03357be0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> There's also the HCP, which doesn't use the same 12
> either.  It's misleading to say there's only one way
> to pack spheres.

Isn't there only one closest-packing of atoms? The IVM?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:35:40 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      viral shells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I wonder if it is possible to shatter viral shells by using
a resonant-frequency-radiation-wavelength equal to the
frequency of the shell itself.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:09:44 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Re Ada Byron
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20010307144754.0085e100@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:47 PM 03/07/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>What does all this have to do with Bucky?  The connections
>are there, for the discerning reader.  -- Kirby
>
>======================

My 'In Defense of Ada' essay/rebuttal is now on the web
at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/adaessay.html  -- typos
fixed.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:45:04 -0800
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Comments:     SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) [209.198.116.122]
              from arc1a312.bf.sover.net [209.198.116.122] 209.198.116.122 Thu,
              8 Mar 2001 16:43:35 -0500 (EST)
From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      NOT regular tetrahedron
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Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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    The icosahedron results when the central sphere is removed from the
closest packing (Vector Equilibrium) and the remaining spheres move a little
closer.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 06:53:15 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: irregular tets ?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            08-MAR-2001  6:53
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 you missed the "ABA versus ABC" wars o'sphere-packing, Dood!
    it's in _S_, so just look it "up," please.

 as for shattering shells by their "freq." a la Bucky,
 how could that be -- don't you have to tune
 into an actual element's length,
 using a sub/multiple of it to resonate with?

 back to the 12-around-one,
 their are infinite positions,
 including the icosahedral one (wherein
 the outer balls will not kiss each-other .-)

 thus quuoth:
  a resonant-frequency-radiation-wavelength equal to the
  frequency of the shell itself.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >  >>http;//www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:47:51 -0700
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      List
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0A7DE.C06819C0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm concerned that someone ( =
Or a bunch of someones? ) is getting our addresses on this list. I for =
one am not opening any attachments from this list, and it may even be =
prudent to sign off?=20


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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't know about the rest of you guys =
but I'm=20
concerned that someone ( Or a bunch of someones? ) is getting our =
addresses on=20
this list. I for one am not opening any attachments from this list, and =
it may=20
even be prudent to sign off? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:18:45 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: irregular tets ?
In-Reply-To:  <200103081453.f28ErFc20600@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 08-MAR-2001  6:53
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  you missed the "ABA versus ABC" wars o'sphere-packing,
> Dood!
>     it's in _S_, so just look it "up," please.

Is this a response to my question about there only being
one closest-packing arrangement?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:06:16 -0600
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
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> I wonder if it is possible to shatter viral shells by using
> a resonant-frequency-radiation-wavelength equal to the
> frequency of the shell itself.

Do a search for "Rife frequency" and you'll find an approach
surprisingly similar to this.

No idea if it actually works, but it seems like it should.

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:17:13 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: irregular tets ?
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-OE41AaRPYTHhM5000020e2@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>then this would equate to 20 REGULAR tet volumes
>...would it not ?
>

No.

Kirby

>steve
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:54:36 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-OE51IBXEHt3V5g00002186@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>i question his volume figure of 2.1813 on page 129...
>and suggest that it should 20 x 0.11785 or 2.3570 !!
>
>can anyone explain to me where this 18.51 comes from ?

He uses tetrahedron with CCP edges = 1.

The VE/cuboctahedron is volume 20.  The icosa is a
contraction thereof (jitterbug transformation -- like
'elementary motion' on that website you cited).

Ergo, volume is <20.

The 18.51 figure is approximate.

See http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/volumes.html
    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/volumes2.html

for more on the concentric hierarchy as published in
Synergetics + Synergetics 2 (what's now on the web).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 02:15:24 -0700
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
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Also Kirby,

didn't Bucky build models that he could fill with water in order to test his
mathmatical conclusions with emperical experiment? Proving the 18.51 volume?



P.S. I've destroyed all the photographs of you guys roller blading in
speedos and of course the photos of Brian and that wesson oil covered blonde
babe roller blading naked with the chicken and whips.

Thank you,

Not Mark


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Urner" <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: NOT regular tets ?


> >i question his volume figure of 2.1813 on page 129...
> >and suggest that it should 20 x 0.11785 or 2.3570 !!
> >
> >can anyone explain to me where this 18.51 comes from ?
>
> He uses tetrahedron with CCP edges = 1.
>
> The VE/cuboctahedron is volume 20.  The icosa is a
> contraction thereof (jitterbug transformation -- like
> 'elementary motion' on that website you cited).
>
> Ergo, volume is <20.
>
> The 18.51 figure is approximate.
>
> See http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/volumes.html
>     http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/volumes2.html
>
> for more on the concentric hierarchy as published in
> Synergetics + Synergetics 2 (what's now on the web).
>
> Kirby
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:41:50 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
In-Reply-To:  <20010308213050.13109.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:30 PM 03/08/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>> There's also the HCP, which doesn't use the same 12
>> either.  It's misleading to say there's only one way
>> to pack spheres.
>
>Isn't there only one closest-packing of atoms? The IVM?
>
>Dick

Closest packing of what atoms where?  Crystals come in a
large variety of lattices.  The IVM is a useful reference
frame, i.e. lots of times you can describe a crystal
in terms of what IVM positions are occupied by what
atoms vs. others, or left empty.

Also, you can describe some of the other common patterns
(e.g. SCP=XYZ and BCC) in terms of multiple IVMs (see my
web page on Synergetic Crystallography at
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/xtals101.html )

HCP has the same density as CCP=IVM.  Fuller gets into it
a little when he talks about the polarized rhombic
dodecahedron -- I think that's what he calls it.

Kirby
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Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:14:53 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
In-Reply-To:  <20010308211606.11751.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>> therefore, my conclusion here is that it requires 20
>> REGULAR tets to comprise an icosahedron. and i question
>> the validity of the 18.51 tet volumes...which i content
>> should be exactly 20.
>>

I don't think you should be concluding this just on the
basis of what Bucky said.  Get out your calculator and
calculate.  These are not regular tets.  If Bucky thought
so (which he didn't -- he had the dimensions of these guys
down, in order to do the modules), then he was wrong.  It
makes no difference whatsoever what he, or anyone else,
might say to the contrary.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:22:14 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: List
In-Reply-To:  <002f01c0a819$6d97fd60$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 02:47 PM 03/08/2001 -0700, you wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I don't know about the
rest of you guys but I'm concerned that someone ( Or a bunch of someones?
) is getting our addresses on this list. I for one am not opening any
attachments from this list, and it may even be prudent to sign off?

</smaller></fontfamily>

</excerpt><<<<<<<<


It has always been possible too send commands to the listserv

in listserverese, asking for such a list.  It's also possible

to modify your personal settings such that your address does

not appear publicly, even though you subscribe.


In the good ol' days, internet technology was very open and

free with information.  As the money-minded and the paranoid

have invaded cyberspace, this has changed, but various prehistoric

relics, like Listserv, still serve.


Note:  many of the subscribers to this list were themselves

lists, i.e. postings here get into other distribution lists

automatically, plus there's a tenuous echo-to-newsgroups

bridge (doesn't work well) such that more can follow via

bit.listserv.geodesic.


Finally, all posts are archived to the web, and folks such as

myself (a) give clear pointers to the archive and (b) link

to individual posts if they're relevant to a web page, which

means that the list of subscribers does NOT equal the list

of total readers, any more than the names a magazine holds

as a subscriber base completely covers the readership of any

given article in any given issue.


This is the world of scholars and scholarship.  In principle,

it's all very open and retrievable ala the model of a library.

In practice, people get paranoid, and the Library in Alexandria

was burned to the ground (an accident?).


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:50:36 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      agree with 18.51
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Kirby and Dick and Brian,

yes, i see the logic behind what you are saying,
and i definitely agree with 18.51....and the icosa requires
irregular tets for its construction. i appreciate
all the visual/mental/mathematical images.

therefore the icosa does not align with the ccp...which
makes sense, and kind of in logical agreement with
Robert Gray's formula about all poly ccp volumes
"always being an integer multiple of tet quantities".



i find i am still having troubles with the definition for VE.
while this understanding may be quite obvious to you all,
i still seem to be unclear here.

logically, if this Equilibrium were only distance related, then
unlimited quantities/variations would apply. (as you could have
thousands of equal length vectors)
therefore, it must involve the Vectors inter-relationships to one another.

if this where true, then it would seem to me that this
VE term would be better suited for the 12 around 1 of
the icosa ( having external Equilibrium).
However, since the icosa is NOT regular tets...so
it cannot be in Equilibrium either....and therefore not VE.

does the VE equate to the 12 around 1 kissing points
of ccp ?

is VE the 8 vectors as shown on page 210 example A?
is VE the 12 vectors as shown on page 231 example A ?

how exactly does VE differ/align from IVM ?

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:59:48 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
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Thank you. I am learning not to take my
assumed-to-be-correct understandings of synergetic
principles as always-opened-for-review. What I was asking
is that with equal sized cannon balls, there is only one
arrangement that is _actually_ closest-packing, no matter
that there might be different names for this arrangement.
Closest-packing must mean the arrangement that takes the
least volume. I am pretty sure that this is so, but I
wanted to check anyway.

Dick
--- Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:
> At 01:30 PM 03/08/2001 -0800, you wrote:
> >> There's also the HCP, which doesn't use the same 12
> >> either.  It's misleading to say there's only one way
> >> to pack spheres.
> >
> >Isn't there only one closest-packing of atoms? The IVM?
> >
> >Dick
>
> Closest packing of what atoms where?  Crystals come in a
> large variety of lattices.  The IVM is a useful reference
> frame, i.e. lots of times you can describe a crystal
> in terms of what IVM positions are occupied by what
> atoms vs. others, or left empty.
>
> Also, you can describe some of the other common patterns
> (e.g. SCP=XYZ and BCC) in terms of multiple IVMs (see my
> web page on Synergetic Crystallography at
> http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/xtals101.html )
>
> HCP has the same density as CCP=IVM.  Fuller gets into it
> a little when he talks about the polarized rhombic
> dodecahedron -- I think that's what he calls it.
>
> Kirby
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:06:49 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
In-Reply-To:  <20010308.202645.1248.2.c.knight@juno.com>
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If synergetic geomtry was used to determine the resonating
frequency of a particularly-dimensioned shell, and the
exact radio frequency matched to it, then who knows. Very
interesting.

Dick
--- Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM> wrote:
> > I wonder if it is possible to shatter viral shells by
> using
> > a resonant-frequency-radiation-wavelength equal to the
> > frequency of the shell itself.
>
> Do a search for "Rife frequency" and you'll find an
> approach
> surprisingly similar to this.
>
> No idea if it actually works, but it seems like it
> should.
>
>      -- Chuck Knight
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:18:26 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: agree with 18.51
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--- Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Kirby and Dick and Brian,
>
> yes, i see the logic behind what you are saying,
> and i definitely agree with 18.51....and the icosa
> requires
> irregular tets for its construction. i appreciate
> all the visual/mental/mathematical images.
>
> therefore the icosa does not align with the ccp...which
> makes sense, and kind of in logical agreement with
> Robert Gray's formula about all poly ccp volumes
> "always being an integer multiple of tet quantities".
>
>
>
> i find i am still having troubles with the definition for
> VE.
> while this understanding may be quite obvious to you all,
> i still seem to be unclear here.
>
Steve- Do you have a jitterbug? If not, you can make one in
ten minutes with thin sticks and skinny hoses. 8^)

Dick
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:40:52 -0800
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Ada Byron
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> ... Thank you Ada Byron, and may you live long
> and prosper in our shared memory.


The Ada Picture Gallery
http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/pictures.html

A Quick Biographical Sketch of Ada Lovelace
http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/tap/Files/ada-bio.html
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:20:26 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
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At 07:59 AM 03/09/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Thank you. I am learning not to take my
>assumed-to-be-correct understandings of synergetic
>principles as always-opened-for-review. What I was asking
>is that with equal sized cannon balls, there is only one
>arrangement that is _actually_ closest-packing, no matter
>that there might be different names for this arrangement.

If you invent a term that covers all arrangements of
maximum density, then the answer is yes.  It's all
terminological.

The HCP is as dense as the CCP.  We're talking stackings
of balls, with a choice at each layer whether to nest
a triangular grid in holes/valleys A or holes/valleys B.

>Closest-packing must mean the arrangement that takes the
>least volume. I am pretty sure that this is so, but I
>wanted to check anyway.
>
>Dick

Least volume or greatest density, whatever.  We had a
long thread on this earlier.

Kirby
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:17:29 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      VE vs. IVM
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>how exactly does VE differ/align from IVM ?
>
>steve

The way Bucky talks about it, the VE is a spatial
vector diagram with explosive vectors from center
and tensive vectors around the circumference.  He
looks at it as 8 tetrahedra hinge-bonded with one
another, meaning all the radials are doubled, are
two vectors apiece, giving 24 radial matching 24
circumferential.  So the numbers of vectors that
explode/push from center vs. embrace/contract around
the outside, are equal.

In Fuller's model, the embracive, pythonic squeeze
behavior of gravitational constriction is inherently
more efficient than independent explosive-from-center
behavior, and so gravity has the edge.

I have a hard time mapping Fuller's gravity in any
simple one-to-one translation to the standard physics
talk wherein Newton's gravity has been subsumed as one
of four (or five) forces of nature.  Fuller's use of
the term, as a kind of generalized tension always
co-acting at 90 degrees with compression, and as
resonant with 'syntropy', makes his 'gravity' a lot
harder to pin down.  His thinking only sounds
Newtonian when his proximate to Newton in his
writing.

In some ways, I find it easier to substitute "sense
making" with "sense losing" for gravitational and
radiational behaviors ala synergetics.  These terms
seem more able to embrace the philosophical range
Fuller wants to give his 'gravity' and 'radiation'
as key terms in an invented language.

The IVM is supposed to represent 'everywhere the same'
energy conditions and links in Fuller's thinking to
Avogadro's Law, which is about how many atoms/molecules
of a gas you'll have per specific volume at specific
temperature and pressure.  In imagining a uniform
distribution of gas molecules, he comes up with the
CCP as a better model than SCP.  Of course in a gas
the molecules are kinetic, don't just sit there, so
we have to look at these as "average positions" --
a discrete dispersion developed from averaging
positions over time.

Kirby
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:16:43 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      VE defined
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Kirby,

>>how exactly does VE differ/align from IVM ?

>The way Bucky talks about it, the VE is a spatial
>vector diagram with explosive vectors from center
>and tensive vectors around the circumference.  He
>looks at it as 8 tetrahedra hinge-bonded with one
>another, meaning all the radials are doubled, are
>two vectors apiece, giving 24 radial matching 24
>circumferential.  So the numbers of vectors that
>explode/push from center vs. embrace/contract around
>the outside, are equal.

     thanks. seems pretty clear,  i think.  i would imagine
     if one took the 6 SBP hinge-bonded, with their 4 points
     each that this also makes 24....the same 24 radial really
      ....just  another mathematical/logical viewpoint ?

>In Fuller's model, the embracive, pythonic squeeze
>behavior of gravitational constriction is inherently
>more efficient than independent explosive-from-center
>behavior, and so gravity has the edge.

>I have a hard time mapping Fuller's gravity in any
>simple one-to-one translation to the standard physics
>talk wherein Newton's gravity has been subsumed as one
>of four (or five) forces of nature.  Fuller's use of
>the term, as a kind of generalized tension always
>co-acting at 90 degrees with compression, and as
>resonant with 'syntropy', makes his 'gravity' a lot
>harder to pin down.  His thinking only sounds
>Newtonian when his proximate to Newton in his
>writing.

>In some ways, I find it easier to substitute "sense
>making" with "sense losing" for gravitational and
>radiational behaviors ala synergetics.  These terms
>seem more able to embrace the philosophical range
>Fuller wants to give his 'gravity' and 'radiation'
>as key terms in an invented language.

      also very clear.
      personally, i find your new terms to be a lot easier to
      fathom/accept/visualize/conceptualize/help in understanding.

>The IVM is supposed to represent 'everywhere the same'
>energy conditions

     yes, i guess this is where i am having troubles...since in my
    mind, there are both squares/triangles and SBP/tets. and
    i do not see them as he does...as "everywhere the same".

>and links in Fuller's thinking to
>Avogadro's Law, which is about how many atoms/molecules
>of a gas you'll have per specific volume at specific
>temperature and pressure.  In imagining a uniform
>distribution of gas molecules, he comes up with the
>CCP as a better model than SCP.  Of course in a gas
>the molecules are kinetic, don't just sit there, so
>we have to look at these as "average positions" --
>a discrete dispersion developed from averaging
>positions over time.

    yes, i appreciate your sharing of this background knowledge
   regarding Bucky's thinking....i was unaware of this line of his
   thoughts.

steve
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:23:01 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: NOT regular tets ?
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> >Closest-packing must mean the arrangement that takes the
> >least volume. I am pretty sure that this is so, but I
> >wanted to check anyway.
> >
> >Dick
>
> Least volume or greatest density, whatever.

Yes, of course. There are many ways to say the same thing.

 We had a
> long thread on this earlier.

That does not mean I can follow it all! :^)
You don't use smiles at all is seems? Maybe they are silly.

Dick

>
> Kirby
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:25:40 -0800
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Bjorn Borg Urges Europeans to Have More Sex
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They seem to be having the opposite problem from what the rest
of the world is facing -- too many kids!  And pension money
seems like a poor excuse for encouraging more reproduction.

Dexter


Bjorn Borg Urges Europeans to Have More Sex
http://news.excite.com/news/r/010309/11/odd-borg-dc
Updated 11:00 AM ET March 9, 2001

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Swedish tennis champion Bjorn Borg
is calling on Europeans to have more sex and more babies to
make sure there are enough people around to finance old age
pensions.

To deliver his message the five-time Wimbledon winner took
out a full-page English-language advertisement on Friday in
Sweden's biggest business daily Dagens Industri.

Under a picture of a group of midwives, Borg wrote: "We
have a bit of a delicate problem here in the Western world:
there aren't enough babies being born.

"If nothing drastic happens soon there won't be anyone who
can work and put up for our pensions.

"Luckily there is a simple solution that is both enjoyable
and relaxing: the Swedish model. An intimate form of
socializing that, if done properly, will keep midwives
laboring all over Europe. So the humble advice from Bjorn
Borg is quite simply: Get to it!."

The advertisement ends with the slogan "F+++ for the
future."

No one at the tennis star's fashion company Bjorn Borg
Sweden AB, which placed the advertisement, was immediately
available for comment.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:29:21 -0500
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: another cosmog ?

Does anyone know the answer on this?



On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:12:01 -0800, Dick Fischbeck
<dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

>On page 224, how can the area of a cube with an edge length
>of sqrt2 be 1.01387? This must be an error.
>
>Dick
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:32:35 -0500
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: topology

Does anyone get this?



On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:24:20 -0800, Dick Fischbeck
<dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

>I am beginning to get that the topological equivalence of
>the volumes of two different systems is NOT the same thing
>as the special-case frequency/measured volumes of the same
>two systems. This is why p. 199 of _C_ says the tetrahedral
>volume of an octahedron is 2 and not 4. And why the
>tetrahedral volume of the icosahedron is 5 and not 18.51.
>Can anyone make this easier to understand?
>
>Dick
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:41:16 -0800
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From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      topology
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    What is page 199 of _C_?
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:32:38 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: topology
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Sorry, Cosmography.
--- The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET> wrote:
>     What is page 199 of _C_?
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:58:59 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Another alert on climate change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            09-MAR-2001  6:58
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 now, here is a meeting that I'd have loved to have gone to,
 which was at the Meteorology Dept. at UCLA, yesterday.
    the flyer gave the speaker, Stephen Schneider of UCAR (I think,
 the university affiliate of NCAR, that he'd started, as I recall),
 a longtime modeller and proponent of "global" warming (as contrasted
 to *differential* warming on a sphere), with whom I've spoken,
 briefly, at a TreePeople event, about differential equations and
 The Grid (nothing of technical significance, though).
    the title was the long, technical name of the latest batch of reports
 from the IPCC, and the punch was in the subtitle:
 "For" Policymakers, or "By" Policymakers?

 that just about says it, all.  if I'd gone
 --and thus violated the terms of my probation, alas--
 I'd have asked him the same question that I'd asked
 of a panel on satellite telemetry at UCLA, last year,
 concerning the screaming "news item" of big bergs a-breaking
 off of Antarctica.  now, I'd ask in terms of,
 "Is there a power-law of the relative frequency of bergs
  that are larger, compared to smaller ones?..."  at the time,
 I just thought that, of itself, you couldn't tell
 whether it meant tht "The sky is glowing!" or that
 they was just more snow falling on the icepack; so,
 I asked what the telemetry "said" about the actual shrinkage
 or growth of the icesheet.
    answer (by one of the panelists, not the one who probably
 hosted yesterday's talk) was: it's inconclusive.

 all of this has to be related to the anomoly number one,
 of apparently greater warming at night and in winter;
 any guesses?

 thus quoth:
  Anyone not worried about climate change is invited to read the summary
  reports appearing at http://www.ipcc.ch/ If you don't read what the
  scientists have to say (and approximately a gazillion scientists and
 quite a
  few economists worked on these reports), it is inappropriate to not
 worry.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:14:39 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Peace?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            09-MAR-2001  7:14
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I also found, at the library, a dyscarded copy of the fiche
 of the front page of June 6, 1951's Evening Outlook (Santa Monica,
 CA), with the main headline about MacArthur and the UN,
 "Pounding at Base of Triangle."
    I don't know enough about it, but is sounds as if
 it was close to the point, when Mac'd had a really decisive victory
 against the N.Koreans, and was waiting for 3 weeks
 for the State Dept. to negotiate a surrender, which ne'er happenned.
 sort of the oppisite of Truman's State going over Mac's head
 with those three, funny bombs:
 Trinity, Little Boy and Big Boy;
 is that evocative?

 >  --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >  http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
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Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2001 17:19:34 -0800
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              Mar 2001 17:18:35 -0500 (EST)
From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      topology
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>I am beginning to get that the topological equivalence of
>the volumes of two different systems is NOT the same thing
>as the special-case frequency/measured volumes of the same
>two systems. This is why p. 199 of _C_ says the tetrahedral
>volume of an octahedron is 2 and not 4. And why the
>tetrahedral volume of the icosahedron is 5 and not 18.51.
>Can anyone make this easier to understand?
>
>Dick

    Look at page 532 of Synergetics 1, Table 943.00 Synergetics Quanta
Module Hierarchy
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Date:         Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:14:24 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Tetrascroll
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Henry Ford Museum acquires 1 copy of the original book (only 34 made):

 http://www.hfmgv.org/dymaxion/journal/113.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
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Date:         Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:14:32 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
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The Rife approach uses an oscillating electric current.  I
am thinking of radiation, as in light. I think I'll look
into this further. I know they treat tumors with radiation.
I don't know if alleopathic medicine has looked into the
Rife idea, and I am quite sure medicine has not used
synergetic priniples to determine shell frequency. Who
knows, this might be important.

Dick
--- Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM> wrote:
> > I wonder if it is possible to shatter viral shells by
> using
> > a resonant-frequency-radiation-wavelength equal to the
> > frequency of the shell itself.
>
> Do a search for "Rife frequency" and you'll find an
> approach
> surprisingly similar to this.
>
> No idea if it actually works, but it seems like it
> should.
>
>      -- Chuck Knight
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Date:         Sat, 10 Mar 2001 06:52:25 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Another alert on climate change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            10-MAR-2001  6:52
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 here's the talk, posted under "Seminar In Atmospheric Dynamics
 Winter 2001 Seminar Schedule," and I include the one before it, as an exempla

 Feb 23 Hui Su

 Sensitivity of tropical climate to SST forcing

 "SPECIAL"Thursday, March 8 MS7121  Prof. Steve Schneider
 Stanford University & Visiting Professor, UCLA Department of Geography and
 IoE, Winter 2001
 The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Recent Working Group II
 Report: "For" Policymakers or "By" Policymakers?

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:12:23 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: viral shells

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            10-MAR-2001  7:12
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 there's no doubt that "medicine has not used
  synergetic priniples to determine shell frequency," but
 is there such a recondite thing, at all?
    that is, as to defining the shape of a viral shell, and
 the relation of the shell's "frequency" per Bucky, and
 its resonating aspects (as a drum or bell or
 a wind or stringed instrumenents.

 thus quoth:
  The Rife approach uses an oscillating electric current.  I
  am thinking of radiation, as in light. I think I'll look
  into this further. I know they treat tumors with radiation.
  I don't know if alleopathic medicine has looked into the
  Rife idea, and I am quite sure medicine has not used
  synergetic priniples to determine shell frequency. Who
  knows, this might be important.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:33:12 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
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Dick,

Bucky's Ultra-Micro computer works by tuning in the frequencies of various
electron shells of an atom.  See:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/VE-UltraMicroPC.htm
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/VE-UltraMicroPC-ElectronShell.htm
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/VE-UltraMicroPC-Sliced.htm
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/VE-AtomsClosePack.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: viral shells


> The Rife approach uses an oscillating electric current.  I
> am thinking of radiation, as in light. I think I'll look
> into this further. I know they treat tumors with radiation.
> I don't know if alleopathic medicine has looked into the
> Rife idea, and I am quite sure medicine has not used
> synergetic priniples to determine shell frequency. Who
> knows, this might be important.
>
> Dick
> --- Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM> wrote:
> > > I wonder if it is possible to shatter viral shells by
> > using
> > > a resonant-frequency-radiation-wavelength equal to the
> > > frequency of the shell itself.
> >
> > Do a search for "Rife frequency" and you'll find an
> > approach
> > surprisingly similar to this.
> >
> > No idea if it actually works, but it seems like it
> > should.
> >
> >      -- Chuck Knight
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Date:         Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:09:32 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Another alert on climate change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            10-MAR-2001 10:09
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Marketpower versus the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto (sic; ne
 Bronfmans' Montreal)

 With today's (Saturday, March 10) quotes from EPA Administrator Whitman,
 we get plenty of advice on how "marketposers" are using the crisis "of, by
 and
 for California" - a serious joke that we're supposed to get in the gut -
 in order to impose a "new energy policy" upon the USA, and the rest of
 Earth
 by extension, diplomatic & other wise.  Just one quote therefrom:
 They point to the unequivocal language used in Mr. Bush's Sept.29 position
 paper,
 which stated that he'd seek legislation that would "establish mandatory
 reduction targets for emmissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide,
 nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide.
    Oh, wait.  "There is not doubt about this issue," [Treasury Scty. and
 prior WAND Corp. Chair and Alcoa CEO O'Neill] said in a 1988 speech."
 [to be continued]
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Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:25:00 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fuller and Domes
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National Inventors Hall of Fame
Akron, OH, USA

Sirs,

How come your site makes absolutely NO mention of R Buckminster Fuller and
the Geodesic Dome??!!

Ref: http://www.invent.org/index.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
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Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:29:08 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
In-Reply-To:  <200103101512.f2AFCN529560@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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That's what I read. I'll find the cite's.

Dick

PS- Brian, where is your imagination? Dare to be naive, he
says. You might lean a little to the more supportive side
of things in Buckyland, IMHO. eh? Your alright, though, in
a way. We are all in this thing together.
--- Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 10-MAR-2001  7:12
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  there's no doubt that "medicine has not used
>   synergetic priniples to determine shell frequency," but
>  is there such a recondite thing, at all?
>     that is, as to defining the shape of a viral shell,
> and
>  the relation of the shell's "frequency" per Bucky, and
>  its resonating aspects (as a drum or bell or
>  a wind or stringed instrumenents.
>
>  thus quoth:
>   The Rife approach uses an oscillating electric current.
>  I
>   am thinking of radiation, as in light. I think I'll
> look
>   into this further. I know they treat tumors with
> radiation.
>   I don't know if alleopathic medicine has looked into
> the
>   Rife idea, and I am quite sure medicine has not used
>   synergetic priniples to determine shell frequency. Who
>   knows, this might be important.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:31:29 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fuller and Domes
In-Reply-To:  <000f01c0aa50$4652a1e0$af08fbcf@oemcomputer>
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 Yeah, but they have Velcro in there!?

--- Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> National Inventors Hall of Fame
> Akron, OH, USA
>
> Sirs,
>
> How come your site makes absolutely NO mention of R
> Buckminster Fuller and
> the Geodesic Dome??!!
>
> Ref: http://www.invent.org/index.html
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:02:42 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      viral shells or any shell structure
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Brian- This relates to your question. In the same way the
Tacoma Narrows Bridge(Galloping Gertie) had its resonant
frequency which the wind found, and the wine glass that
shatters at the correct frequency of energy input, it seems
logical that each protein shell must have its resonant
frequency. Maybe we can save some lives, who knows?

Dick

222.43  <cut> I made that discovery in the late 1930s and
published it in 1944. The molecular biologists have
confirmed and developed my formula by virtue of which we
can predict the number of nodes in the external protein
shells of all the viruses,
<cut>
 all of them employ frequency to the second power times ten
plus two in producing those most powerful structural
enclosures of all the biological regeneration of life. It
is the structural power of these geodesic-sphere shells
that makes so lethal those viruses unfriendly to man. They
are almost indestructible.

612.11  <cut>
 This is probably the same reason that nature used the
multifrequency-modulated icosahedron for the protein shells
of the viruses to house most efficiently and safely all the
DNA-RNA genetic code design control of all biological
species development.
<cut>
 I had also discovered the foregoing structural mathematics
of structural quanta topology and reduced it to
demonstrated geodesic dome  practice before the virologists
discovered that the viruses were using geodesic spheres for
their protein shell structuring. (See Sec. 901.)


            1033.104  The isotropic-vector-matrix-field has
an infinite range of electromagnetic tunings that are
always multiplying frequency by  division of the a priori
vector equilibrium and its contained cosmic hierarchy of
timeless-sizeless primitive systems' unfrequenced state. At
maximum their primitive comprehensive domain is that of the
six-tetravolume, 24-A-and-B-quanta-moduled, unfrequenced
rhombic dodecahedron, the long axis of whose 12 diamond
faces is also the prime vector length of the isotropic
vector matrix. At primitive minimum the unfrequenced state
is that of the six-A-and-B-quanta-moduled Syte. Both the
maximum and minimum, primitive, greatest and least
primitive common divisors of Universe may be replicatively
employed or convergently composited to produce the
isotropic vector matrix field of selectable frequency
tunability, whose key wavelength is that of the relative
length of the uniform vector of the isotropic vector matrix
as initially selected in respect to the diameter of the
nucleus of the atom.

           1033.11  Every electromagnetic wave propagation
generates its own cosmic field. This field is a
four-dimensional isotropic vector matrix that can be
readily conceptualized as an aggregation of multilayered,
closest-packed, unit-radius spheres. (See Fig. 1033.111A.)
Unit-radius spheres pack tangentially together most closely
in 60-degree intertriangulations. Atoms close-pack in this
manner. The continuum of inherent outsideness of all
systems enters every external opening of all
closest-packed, unit-radius sphere aggregates, permeating
and omnisurrounding every closest-packed sphere within the
total aggregate. Between the closest-packed, unit-radius
spheres the intervening voids constitute a uniform series
of unique, symmetrical, curvilinear, geometrical shapes,
and the successive centers of volumes of those uniform
phase voids are uniformly interspaced__ the distance
between them being always the same as the uniform distances
between adjacent closest-packed spheres.



1033.111
Wherefore, each of the closest-packed spheres is permeable
by higher-frequency, shorter-wavelength, electromagnetic
propagations; ergo, appropriately frequenced fields may
pass through the isotropic vector matrix's electromagnetic
field of any given wavelengths without interference. Not
only does each closest-packed sphere consist of a plurality
of       varifrequenced vertices interconnected by chords
that define the triangular sieve, but also these vertexial
somethings are mass-interattractively positioned and have
their own boundary layer (trampoline) cushions; ergo, they
are never in absolute tangency.

1033.112  The isotropic vector matrix grid illustrates that
frequency multiplication may be accomplished only by
division. The unit-radius spheres of the isotropic vector
matrix electromagnetic fields close-pack in four planes of
symmetry, permitting four-dimensional electromagnetic
wavebands. The three-way, spherical, electromagnetic,
basketry interweaving is illustrated at Fig. 1033.111B.
There are six great-circle equators of the six axes formed
by the 12 vertices of the spherical icosahedron. The
centers of area of the spherical triangles thus formed
describe the terminals of the electromagnetic waveband
widths. The widths of the bands of frequency tunability are
determined by the truncatability of the spherical
icosahedron's six bands as they run between the centers of
area of the adjacent triangles.

1033.113  Note that the centers of area of the adjacent
spherical triangles are alternately staggered so as to
define a broad path within which the electromagnetic
waveband is generated.
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Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:10:24 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      resonant frequency
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This might relate to the subject.

http://www.brooks.af.mil/AFRL/HED/hedr/reports/bill_guy/home.html

There have been a number of theoretical models used to
obtain induced fields and SAR distributions in animals or
humans exposed to radiofrequency
(RF) fields. These models have varied from relatively
simple spherical forms consisting of a single tissue used
in the early history of bioelectromagnetics
research to the realistic true-form multi-tissue replicas
of animals and humans in use today. The first theoretical
approach in quantifying the fields and
energy absorption in exposed subjects appears to be that of
Anne et al., (1961) and his colleagues. These researchers
applied the Mie equations, as
described by Stratton, (1941), to perfect spherical models
of tissue with various dielectric properties to show how
absorption properties changed with
exposure frequency and radius of the model. Later
investigators (Shapiro A.R., 1971; Ho and Guy, 1975)
extended this work to calculate SAR patterns
within spheres with layered shells of different tissues.
The work demonstrated that the models would resonate at
certain frequencies and size causing
SAR "hot spots" of much greater magnitude than at the
surface, occurring deep in the models. The models provided
significant insight as to how RF
energy is absorbed in exposed subjects at various
wavelengths and how at long wavelengths the absorption
patterns from the electric and magnetic
components of the exposure fields could be independently
calculated.
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Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:35:45 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      molecular surfaces
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Steve- You might like to see the pictures on this page.
They may be about the work you are doing.

Dick



http://www.victorchang.unsw.edu.au/public/brechu/netsci.html.
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Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:40:35 -0800
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Subject:      spherical harmonics
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These relate to the subject of shell harmonic frequency.

Dick




http://ee.www.ecn.purdue.edu/ECE/Research/ARS/ARS95/Sec4/4_16.html


4.16 Interpretation of Low-Resolution X-ray Diffraction
Data from Viruses

Yibin Zheng and Prof. Peter C. Doerschuk

There is great biological and medical interest in the
determination of the three dimensional structure of viral
particles. For the class of so-called ''small
spherical viruses,'' which includes important pathogens
such as poliovirus and rhinoviruses, the virus has a shell
of protein (the so-called ''capsid'')
surrounding an inner core of nucleic acid. The capsid is
''crystalline'' in the sense that it is constructed from
many repetitions of the same polypeptides,
and the entire capsid is invariant under the 60 rotational
symmetries of the icosahedron.


http://www.nrc.ca/programs/ACA95/W/a664.html

3D LOW-RESOLUTION RECONSTRUCTION OF VIRAL STRUCTURE FROM
SOLUTION X-RAY SCATTERING DATA

Yibin Zheng1, Peter C. Doerschuk1 and John E. Johnson2

The small spherical virus is modeled as a shell of constant
electron density (capsid) surrounding a core of constant
electron density (nucleic acid). The
virus has icosahedral symmetry and therefore the surfaces
separating the core from the capsid and the capsid from the
external world have icosahedral
symmetry. In terms of spherical coordinates with origin at
the center of the virus, each surface is parameterized by
its distance from the origin as a
function of the angles theta and phi. Each distance
function is expanded as a weighted sum of icosahedral
harmonics. [Using novel methods, we have
derived exact explicit formulae for the weights when
icosahedral harmonics (i.e., the identity representation of
the icosahedral group) are expressed as
linear combinations of spherical harmonics]. To determine
the weights and the two electron densities from the
experimental data, we use the
Levenberg-Marquardt method to minimize int k^8 | I(k)-hat
I(k) |^2 }k where I(k) is the experimental data and hat
I(k) is the predicted scattering
pattern as a function of the weights and electron densities
in the model.
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Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:48:23 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      shell harmonics
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  Here are a couple more snips about spherical harmonics.

Dick


                    Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) - A
diagnostic procedure that produces visual images of
different body parts without the use of X-rays. Nuclei of
atoms are influenced by a high frequency electromagnetic
impulse inside a strong magnetic field. The nuclei then
give off resonating signals that can produce pictures of
parts of the body. An important diagnostic tool in MS, MRI
makes it possible to visualize and count lesions in the
white matter of the brain and spinal cord.

-------------------
A Look At the Frequencies of Rife-related Plasma Emission
Devices          by Charlene Boehm

This is a story of an exploration with numbers.
The origin of the MORs (Mortal Oscillatory Rates of
bacteria and viruses), originally discovered by Royal Rife
during the first half of the twentieth century, has
perplexed many people since that time. While it is
generally
acknowledged that some type of resonance phenomenon
destroyed or debilitated the organisms, it has been
difficult at best to pinpoint any association of specific
frequency with what is physically affecting these life
forms during the time of their debilitation or demise.

What exactly might be the destructive mechanism that is
affecting each organism? Is it a resonance related to
its full size, or perhaps that of the nucleus,
mitochondria, or capsid? Is it a correlation with some type
of
biochemical resonance? Why does each organism seem to need
a specific frequency? Could the phenomenon be
related to its DNA, and if so, what is the resonance
relationship? These questions and more have kept folks that
use or explore Rife-related technologies awake into the wee
hours of the morning on many occasions, and have
been the focus of endless animated discussions.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:56:06 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: viral shells

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            11-MAR-2001  6:56
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the field of optical biophysics has been well-covered,
 from its roots in the SU, by *21st C. Science and Tech.*
    I keep on telling you-all about our stuff, but
 your knee-jerk attatchment to Bucky's Cosmosophy, and
 his Toynbee-ite "empirical," allegedly apolitical "speuclative history,"
 prevent you from "going there," in typical Boomer fashion (or,
 tha's what Lyn says might be the reason .-)
    in particular, if you dig geometry, then
 this is the only magazine for the general readership,
 that regularly covers this stuff in any depth.

 Dare to be classically ignorant,
 with one foot on a bannana-peel and the other in the grave?

 thus quoth:
  PS- Brian, where is your imagination? Dare to be naive, he
  says. You might lean a little to the more supportive side
  of things in Buckyland, IMHO. eh? Your alright, though, in
  a way. We are all in this thing together.

 --Les Duke d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
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Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:08:16 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: molecular surfaces

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            11-MAR-2001  7:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 good show.

 Several books have been written on the subject of physical molecular
 models. The book by Wells (1970) shows how inorganic chemistry can be
 taught using five kinds of models: polyhedra, nets, sphere packings,
 tetrahedral structures and octahedral structures. Walton (1978) also
 discusses polyhedral models. Her book gives the best survey of all kinds of
 physical molecular models (including ones for atomic and molecular
 orbitals) and has a long table of commercial suppliers. The book of Bassow
 (1968) teaches organic chemistry and crystallography by having the student
 build models. The Journal of Chemical Education has published several
 papers on molecular models, including a history by Peterse n (1970) and a
 list of suppliers by Gordon (1970).

 Finally, let us discuss folded chain models. These models are based on an
 idealization or simplification of the polypeptide chain as a series of
 virtual bonds connecting the alpha carbons of a protein. The bend angles at
 each alpha carbon and the torsion angles along virtual bonds specify the
 protein fold. There are basically two examples of this class: Byron Rubin's
 wire-bender model, and Blackwell Molecular Models.

 The wire-bender model is made of 3-mm-diameter steel rod bent to the
 pattern of an alpha-carbon chain of a protein. The bending is accomplished
 by means of a machine (Byron's Bender) and a list of torsion and bend
 angles. The machine is made up of a fixed clamp, a sliding clamp, a bending
 anvil, a torsion-angle dial, a bending-angle dial and a mic rometer for
 segment length (Rubin, 1985). Unlike virtually all other systems, the scale
 is variable, i.e. the alpha carbon to alpha carbon length is not fixed.
 The machine is commercially available from Charles Supper Co. of Natwick,
 Massachusetts.

 Blackwell Molecular Models (Fletterick and Matela, 1982; Fletterick,
 Shroer and Matela, 1985) are more complicated and provide more chemical
 information. They are made out of plastic in twenty different colors to
 code for amino acid type. The scale is one cm per angstrom. There is one
 object per amino acid and each object is made of two pieces of plastic
 attached by a plastic rod protruding from one of the pieces (replacing the
 machine screw described in the original Biopolymers article). There are two
 angle scales embossed on the plastic, one for torsion angles and one for
 bend angles. Glue is used to fix the torsion angle between amino acid
 objects and the bend angle at an alpha carbon (originally fixed by
 tightening the machine crew). Before the model is constructed, the protein
 alpha carbon coordinates must be adjusted so that the virtual bond length
 is 3.80 cm. This is done by a Fortran computer program that the developers
 distribute through the protein data bank at Brookhaven national laboratory.
 The program uses Lag range multipliers and the Newton-Raphson method to
 adjust the coordinates. Angles for some molecules are given in Fletterick,
 Schroer and Matela (1985) along with rod lengths. The metal rods are cut to
 order with pliers and each end is inserted into a plastic connector. These
 support rods are added after the model is build, to fix some of the
 alpha-carbon-to-alpha-carbon distances and stabilize the finished model.

 Electron Density Fitting


 http://www.victorchang.unsw.edu.au/public/brechu/netsci.html
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Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:02:12 -0800
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Subject:      Re: viral shells
In-Reply-To:  <200103111456.f2BEu6B32159@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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Brian- I give up on you for now. Maybe later. I am  glad to
look at your ideas. I do not get why you insist on putting
down honest people. Sometimes I wonder if you are here to
explore thing that might help people or not.? If you are
not that into synergetics, why are you here?

Bucky says what I think very well. From Guinea-Pig B:

Vividly, I recall an occasion when I was about ten and my
father heard me call my own brother a fool. My father said,
"Bucky, I do not take everything I
read as being reliable, not even when I read it in the
Bible. But I find by experience that statements in the
Bible are far more often reliable than are
declarations printed elsewhere. There is a statement in the
Bible that you should remember: he who calls his brother a
fool shall be in danger of hell's fire.
"

In these critical times let us no longer make the mistake
of identifying as fools those with whom we disagree.


Lighten out, brother.
Dick

--- Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 11-MAR-2001  6:56
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  the field of optical biophysics has been well-covered,
>  from its roots in the SU, by *21st C. Science and Tech.*
>     I keep on telling you-all about our stuff, but
>  your knee-jerk attatchment to Bucky's Cosmosophy, and
>  his Toynbee-ite "empirical," allegedly apolitical
> "speuclative history,"
>  prevent you from "going there," in typical Boomer
> fashion (or,
>  tha's what Lyn says might be the reason .-)
>     in particular, if you dig geometry, then
>  this is the only magazine for the general readership,
>  that regularly covers this stuff in any depth.
>
>  Dare to be classically ignorant,
>  with one foot on a bannana-peel and the other in the
> grave?
>
>  thus quoth:
>   PS- Brian, where is your imagination? Dare to be naive,
> he
>   says. You might lean a little to the more supportive
> side
>   of things in Buckyland, IMHO. eh? Your alright, though,
> in
>   a way. We are all in this thing together.
>
>  --Les Duke d'Enron!
>  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:10:51 -0500
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From:         Steve Waterman <swaterman117@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      links
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Dick,

>You might like to see the pictures on this page.
>They may be about the work you are doing.


>http://www.victorchang.unsw.edu.au/public/brechu/netsci.html.

thanks...some of this looks interesting...
i will definitely check it out some more.

steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:43:24 -0500
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From:         Bob Burkhardt <bobwb@CHANNEL1.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fuller and Domes
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I guess we should start them out with basics, but I'd hope they'd list him for
the dymaxion map as well since it made such an impression on the patent
office.

Bob

Joe S Moore wrote:

> National Inventors Hall of Fame
> Akron, OH, USA
>
> Sirs,
>
> How come your site makes absolutely NO mention of R Buckminster Fuller and
> the Geodesic Dome??!!
>
> Ref: http://www.invent.org/index.html
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:28:14 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: New To All This
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Lynne,

Here is a collection of all the dome manufacturers in the known universe:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm
(scroll down to "Manufacturers")

 I suggest you look for a dome that can't rot, burn, or be eaten by bugs.
That eliminates 99% of the current dome manufacturers.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 2:42 PM
Subject: New To All This


> From: Lynne Walker <lwalker@mail.win.org>
> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:42:34 -0800
>
> Hello!  I am investigating the how-to's of buying and having built a
> dome home.  I have been reading until my eyeballs are falling out.  One
> site says build with wood, another says concrete; one says hub and
> strut, another says hub and strut is outdated; one says blow the
> insulation right onto the dome surface, another says you'll get rot if
> you do that, that you must air space between the two. My goodness! How
> am I to know what is the best choice?  My main considerations are 1)
> money (single, low income female), 2) being able to hire the work done
> (I am smart enough to know I can't do this), 3) sturdy and energy
> efficient structure, 4) space (on one level).
>
> I have also heard of eliptical dome homes which are short and fat.  Are
> they as storm resistant?  Cheaper to build?
>
> Many sites sell "kits" but they don't include windows, etc.  Don't you
> have to have special windows for a dome home?
>
> I know this is a lot of questions but I sincerely need the
> answers..........
>
> Lynne in Missouri
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:13:06 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Structural Engineering Software
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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Microstran 7.0 Structural Engineering software:

"The Standard Structure facility in Microstran now permits the creation of
many kinds of geodesic dome. Spherical and ellipsoidal structures based on
the icosahedron, octahedron, or tetrahedron may be generated by entering a
few parameters."

 http://www.engsys.com.au/index.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:50:38 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fuller and Domes
Comments: To: Tom Hollingsworth <THollingsworth@Invent.org>
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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RE: Fuller and DomesMr Hollingsworth,

Yes, I would like to nominate R Buckminster Fuller to the (US) National =
Inventors Hall of Fame.  He has 23 US inventions to his credit, =
including, but not limited to, the geodesic dome.  Please see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/ByBFbookTOC-Inventions.htm

For a brief description of some of his most important ideas see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/1Idea.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Tom Hollingsworth=20
  To: 'Joe S Moore'=20
  Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 6:49 AM
  Subject: RE: Fuller and Domes


  Thank you for your note about R. Buckminister Fuller.=20
  He has not yet been inducted to the Hall of Fame.=20
  I think he would make a good candidate.=20
  Would you like to nominate him?=20

  Tom Hollingsworth=20
  National Inventors Hall of Fame=20
  thollingsworth@invent.org=20

  -----Original Message-----=20
  From: Joe S Moore [mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com]=20
  Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 12:25 PM=20
  To: administration@invent.org=20
  Cc: _Geodesic=20
  Subject: Fuller and Domes=20


  National Inventors Hall of Fame=20
  Akron, OH, USA=20

  Sirs,=20

  How come your site makes absolutely NO mention of R Buckminster Fuller =
and=20
  the Geodesic Dome??!!=20

  Ref: http://www.invent.org/index.html=20

  Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com=20
  Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ =



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: Fuller and Domes</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Mr=20
Hollingsworth,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Yes, I would like =
to nominate R=20
Buckminster Fuller to the (US) National Inventors Hall of Fame.&nbsp; He =
has 23=20
US inventions to his credit, including, but not limited to, the geodesic =

dome.&nbsp; Please&nbsp;see:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/ByBFbookTOC-Inventions.htm=
">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/ByBFbookTOC-Inventions.htm</A></=
FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>For a brief =
description of some=20
of his most important ideas see:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/1Idea.htm">http://www.cruzi=
o.com/~joemoore/Ideas/1Idea.htm</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DTHollingsworth@Invent.org =
href=3D"mailto:THollingsworth@Invent.org">Tom=20
  Hollingsworth</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">'Joe S Moore'</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 12, 2001 =
6:49=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Fuller and =
Domes</DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Thank you for your note about R. Buckminister =
Fuller.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>He has not yet been inducted to the Hall of =
Fame.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>I think he would make a good candidate.</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Would you like to nominate him?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Tom Hollingsworth</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>National =
Inventors=20
  Hall of Fame</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:thollingsworth@invent.org">thollingsworth@invent.org</A>=20
  </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>From: Joe S=20
  Moore [<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com</A>]</FONT=
>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 12:25 PM</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>To: administration@invent.org</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Cc:=20
  _Geodesic</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Subject: Fuller and Domes</FONT> =
<BR></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>National Inventors Hall of Fame</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>Akron,=20
  OH, USA</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Sirs,</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>How come your site makes absolutely NO mention of R=20
  Buckminster Fuller and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>the Geodesic =
Dome??!!</FONT>=20
  </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Ref: <A target=3D_blank=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.invent.org/index.html">http://www.invent.org/index.htm=
l</A></FONT>=20
  </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: <A target=3D_blank=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></FONT>=20
  </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:58:33 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Nominations for Induction
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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How to nominate someone to the National Inventors Hall of Fame in Akron, OH,
USA:

 http://www.invent.org/book/nomination.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:43:46 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Fwd: dome stresses
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am forwarding this to the group for comments and
corrections.

Dick

> >No other structure becomes stronger as it
> >becomes larger. This is synergetic behavior.
> Hi Dick,
> I'm having trouble understanding this statement. What do
> you
> mean when
> you imply that domes get stronger as they get larger?
> Please
> give me an
> example of this.
> And what do you mean by synergetic behaviour as applied
> to
> domes? And
> how would you measure it?
> BTW Hugh Kenner's "Geodesic Math and How To Use It"
> touches on
> tensegrity and maybe worth a read if you are interested.
> Regards
> John
>
> John- Synergetic behavior in geodesic domes is it ability
> to evenly
> distribute stresses in the same way that pneumatic
> structures distribute
> stresses. Why is a cable so much stronger than a rod of
> steel of the same
> material and of the same diameter? It is closely related
> to the answer to
> your question. I will summarize as best I can Bucky's
> references to the
> topic of stresses in geodesic domes.
>
> All structures result from the interaction of two primary
> always-and-only
> coexisting forces- divergent compression and convergent
> tension. Compression
> is always discontinuous. Tension is always continuous.
> Bucky often uses
> radiation to model compression and uses gravity to model
> tension.
>
> As the frequency of a dome increase(we can imply, then,
> that this means the
> dome's radius increases also), the difference between a
> strut's radius at
> the strut's middle and the radius of the strut's end
> decreases. This is very
> easy to imagine in the case of the tetrahedron, which is
> the simplest
> geodesic dome. The end of the tetrahedron strut is
> further away from the
> tetrahedron's center than the tetrahedron's strut at its
> middle. This
> difference is called the arc-altitude. As the size of a
> dome increases, the
> arc-altitude of a struts decreases. This means that as a
> dome increases in
> size, its compression struts are always increasingly
> directly opposed by the
> domes tensional ability. Put another way, as a dome
> increases in size the
> ratio of strut length to diameter decreases. This reduces
> every struts
> tendency to bow and snap-in-two. The fact that a dome's
> compressional struts
> play a smaller and smaller, more and more local role in
> the structure's
> overall integrity becomes apparent.
>
> Tensional components have no limit to their ratio of
> cross-section-to-length
> strength, whereas compressional components very much do
> have this limit.
> This is a compression elements slenderness ratio,
> sometimes 1:18. This
> relates to the safety-factor of the structure. In larger
> and larger domes,
> we can hold a strut's slenderness ratio to a safe number,
> while we do not
> have to worry about this issue in the domes tensional
> aspect. In larger and
> larger domes, the dome's tensional component plays a more
> and more prominent
> role. Its compressional components become more and more
> localized , and,
> individually, less consequencial to the dome's overall
> integrity.
>
> I refer you the Synergetics 1 and 2, 750.00, 792.00,
> 794.00 and 795.00. This
> is available on the web at
>
>
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/synergetics.html
>
> Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:31:15 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      LaRouche
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Brian- I looked into LaRouche as you suggested. From what I
read here, I think written in LaRouche's own words, he is
some variety of a fundamentalist Christian. He does not see
the sovereignty of the 150 or so nations on this Earth as
clots in the planetary economy. I assume he views GBLT
people as evil. He has some idea about an absolute _nature
of man_. He seems to have some idea of an absolute
morality, too. Can you please explain the relationship of
LaRouche's ideas to this group's interest in the works of
Bucky?

Dick


http://207.150.197.195/pages/sovereignty3.html



2. What is Natural Law?


The term "natural law" has often been misused in ignorant
or otherwise foolish ways. The proper use of the term, is
that defined in a very strict manner, as the history of
this idea is traced from Classical Greece, and through the
efforts, starting from the model provided by Plato, to
define man's relation to the universe, and to mankind
itself. The cornerstone of natural law, is thus expressed
by insight into the celebrated passage from Genesis 1: man
and woman, each and all equally made in the image of the
Creator of the universe, and endowed with that means,
cognitive reason, to exert mankind's rule over, and
responsibility for all other beings, including other living
ones, in this universe.

This principle of natural law is so urgent for the
continued survival of our republic, and of other nations,
today, that no morally responsible citizen could object to
allotting the concentration needed to understand the
origins and nature of that principle, as I set that forth
in the following portions of this policy statement.

An adequate definition of natural law, starts from that
premise respecting the nature of man. This notion of man
emerges as natural law, rather than merely some article of
blind faith, the instant we challenge ourselves to show:
Apart from the fact that we are taught to believe this,
what proof do we have, that this is true? Thus, Apostolic
Christianity, for example, was never defined on the basis
of blind faith in taught dogma, but upon the authority of
evidence supplied to reason, as reason is coherent not with
mere formal, deductive logic, but, rather, with {agapé} of
the Apostle Paul's Platonic Greek. Typical is the most
celebrated Chapter 13 of Paul's first letter to the
Corinthians.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:49:35 -0600
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
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> The Rife approach uses an oscillating electric current.  I
> am thinking of radiation, as in light. I think I'll look

Actually, the RIFE approach uses any number of means to
introduce the oscillations into the pathogen.  Electric current,
magnetism, and even sound frequencies.  It's unimportant
how the energy gets there -- only that it does, and that the
pathogen responds to the input.

In fact, there was even a program for the PC, which output
specific RIFE frequencies through the sound card.

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:43:48 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: LaRouche

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            12-MAR-2001 13:43
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I did not call you a fool, Dick, but
 it is not unusual in the least to be "classically ignorant!"
    I've seen that list of Lyn's excerpts on a Jewish list, and
 it is certainly startlingly decontextualized.  (if you want
 an entire book in that form, just get Dennis King's
 "LL and the New American Fascism" -- another worthy colleague
 of John Foster "Chip of the ol'Dulles" Berlet !-)
    I'll only offer my condolences for one of them,
 about how American history is fraudulent, "esp.
 regarding the Revolution and the Civil War:"
 it's integral to the title of one of our books,
 _The Civil War: America's Battle with Britain, 1850-1868_
 by Allen Salisbury.  I can't neccesarily defend all of them,
 but most.

 here's something that I just got back,
 from some time ago, covering a similar thing
 with the local group of Linux users (www.lalu,org):

 oops; two things, on from the other list, that is current:

  > The more that a government has a hands-off policy, the more that the
  > strong can get the upper hand over the weak.

  This presumes that a non-laissez faire government is working for the good
 of
  the weak.  While this is true in some limited cases (voting rights,
 women's
  suffrage, child labor laws, etc.), there are innumerably more cases where
  government is working for the good of the strong (military contractors,
  tabacco industry, oil companies, rich campaign contributors, etc.).

  Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Placing more
 power
  in the hands of the government only leads to more corruption.

  The solution will never, ever be found in our institutions.  The solution
  will only be found in our hearts.  I would think that Quakers would know
  this more than others.

  --
  Mark Perew  <perew@freeshell.org>
  To the world you may be just one person,
  but to one person you may be the world.

  _______________________________________________
  Quaker-P mailing list
  Quaker-P@earlham.edu
  http://www.earlham.edu/mailman/listinfo/quaker-p

 Message 175...REPLY, PASS, DELETE, or ? for options:  (pass)

  SUBJECT: Re: live **** or die?
  REPLY     from Brian Hutchings                    21-DEC-19 10:21

  argh; I had to retype this, but please note that
  I have alreay announced the first casualty of Y20C, but
  i couldn't really do it; it's in SM, here.


  weirder & weirder & weirdest.  now, why is it that you all went trudging
  to USC and beyond, to attend an evangel's eve, but did not say much of a
 word
  of it on the list?...  I certainly would have asked, if Dan would stop
 trying
  to pinhead the conversation!...  perhaps you were just embarrassed
  by the Jacobin aspects?
     you said that Dan was not apolitical, yet I had spoken with him
  after the meeting at the restaurant near Cosmos; it was clear that
  he thought that I was nuts, and it was clear to me that he could
  be no more PC (or no less; that's the problem .-)
     he seems to want to protect the kids from my fearless leader,
  as do most who are totally misinformed in this regard of history.
     you are going to have an openware revolution, or are, and
  yet you cannot defend yourselves from the mildest discussion
  of endemic "democratic" Jacobinism, raging throughout the planet,
  with or without computerized accoutrements.
     are you sreiously joking with me, that my (I think) removal
  from a "freenet" by a pair of ruling traders in LA
  (which I *can* document, but dyscretion is the better part of dealing
  with a velvet mob).  that may be so, but we usually save our jokes
  for those subjects that concern us, most.
     I've been online since'86, worked with punchcards
  on the 360 well-before that -- so I do know that the Yahoo!s' "Y2K"
  is all about an unfortunate abbreviation; thank you
  for trying to help me at the groundlevel -- you are going to get a lot
  of that at the elementary school!...  But, is it that serious?
     listening to Gary North in August,
  he was asked the crucial question,
  What hapenned with all of those pre-2000 events, such as
  concern fiscal years?...  apparently, nothing, but
  no-one can really say that for sure (I say), because of the churning
  of the market; who'd know which were such casualties,
  swallowed whole by the purity of the freedom of the market?...
  that was Art that asked him; every once in a while,
  he breaks out of his teeny-tiny, occult box!
     we are not talking just companies, but chunks of nations,
  literally raided by the oligarch; ther is no nicety involved,
  other than quickly signing the dotted line.

  you refused to even mention my crude illustration
  of the modulo-100 problem (crude, because of my own lack of skill,
  not that of others), which is the very heart of the Centipede;
  shouldn't we be fairly optimistic, that popular nomenclature exists
  for the awful beast?...  well, usually the case!

  if you do not answer, I will not bug you to death, or any more.

  pleae note, however, the implication of "exquisite sensitivity
  to intermediate conditions"; do you get it?
     there is no acknowledged thermodynamics in the machine,
  except that which is inherent to the implimentation of the floating-
  point standard (viz Mandelbrot's "magnifications;" at least,
  *we* know about it .-)  this dubious property of nonlinear mechanics,
  completely swamps most studies of very Chaos
  --the Mother of Time !?!--
  and is inherent to every computerized simulacrum, therefrom.

  --Born in a Bank!
  http://www.tarpley.net/bush1.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:59:48 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Former Communist countries

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            12-MAR-2001 13:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it isn't capitalism that is being applied in Russia (or
 was, by the Intl.Republican Inst. and the (British) IEA,
 who trained a plurality in the Dumas in British Liberal Free Trade,
 or laissez-faire feudalism, or renier-financierism.

 thus quoth:
  living in Russia today is better.  It is better in terms of freedom  but
 much
  worse in others.  The public health system is a disaster, and measured in
  terms of mortality the country is going down hill rapidly.
  Crime, the extreme form of unregulated capitalism, is rampant.  I believe
  more women are selling themselves.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:03:12 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Power of corporations/ campaign reform

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            12-MAR-2001 14:03
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 yes, and they have refused (as far as I know) to do anything
 about the nullification of the Voting Rights Act on March 27!
 (High Court refused to hear the appeal,
 thus abrogating the small part that dealt with the parties,
 themselves; this is the law of the land, and
 the creed of the Dem Party!)

 thus qutoh:
  Many people are under the illusion that the LWV is an objective group
  devoted to giving people unbiased information.  It is not.  It is
  non-partisan in that it doesn't endorse candidates.  However, it is an
  issue group.  It produces voters' guides that use heavily loaded
 questions
  slanted to favor its own views.  I will not support it.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:09:43 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: LaRouche
In-Reply-To:  <200103122143.f2CLhme06066@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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>  I did not call you a fool, Dick, but
>  it is not unusual in the least to be "classically
> ignorant!"

Brian- Did I say you called me a fool? You did trash me as
being, 1)knee-jerk attached to Bucky, 2)acting in typical
Boomer fashion, 3)having one foot on a bannanna-peel and
one foot in a grave, and 4) being allegedly apolitical(or,
at least, you think this of Bucky). You said this all in
two lines. In addition, you say,"I keep on telling you-all
about our stuff." No one needs to be _told_ anything. That
is the reverse of doing one's own thinking.

I quoted Bucky's recollection of his father's admonishment
about Bucky calling his brother a fool because, to me, you
seem to generally dismiss many posts to this list for no
constructive reason. Then, you allude to LaRouche's
philosophy in a way that has little, if any, relevance to
Fuller's synergetics that I can grasp. Again, you have made
no mention of the relationship between advancing
synergetics and your devotion to LaRouche. Do you have
confidence in Bucky's work? I do not see that you do. And
if not, are you here to promote LaRouche's cause?

Actually, I am beginning to sense that LaRouche and Bucky
are diametrically opposed to each other, as to their
approaches to solve Earth's problems.

I must add, the more I know about LaRouche, the less sense
he makes to me. Why don't you respond to my questions about
this natural law idea? To me, you are completely evading my
legitimate questions.


Dick
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Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:22:23 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
In-Reply-To:  <20010312.220215.1224.0.c.knight@juno.com>
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--- Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM> wrote:
> > The Rife approach uses an oscillating electric current.
>  I
> > am thinking of radiation, as in light. I think I'll
> look
>
> Actually, the RIFE approach uses any number of means to
> introduce the oscillations into the pathogen.  Electric
> current,
> magnetism, and even sound frequencies.  It's unimportant
> how the energy gets there -- only that it does, and that
> the
> pathogen responds to the input.
>
> In fact, there was even a program for the PC, which
> output
> specific RIFE frequencies through the sound card.
>
>      -- Chuck Knight

My intuition says that the icosahedral protein shell will
require all the energy we can assemble to break them. I see
what you mean about the source itself being unimportant.
Wouldn't EMR be the highest energy supply we could muster?
Maybe not. Do you have any ideas on where I can find
numbers, both on these shell's natural frequencies and how
much energy it might take to dissassemble them? Like
Buckyball, I imagine these little structures are
super-ultra strong. I will start back at the Rife sites.
Thanks.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:33:16 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      spherical harmonics
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I am guessing here(what's new). The highest energy
potential of a vibrating shell would be in its symmetrical
all-at-the-same-time in-out oscillation. There would also
be secondary all-around, great-circle surface waves, and
twisting oscillations.

This primary in-out harmonic motion would depend on the
mass of the shell and the elasticity of the shell. Sound
about right?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:55:28 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: LaRouche
In-Reply-To:  <20010313200943.9299.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>
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>Actually, I am beginning to sense that LaRouche and Bucky
>are diametrically opposed to each other, as to their
>approaches to solve Earth's problems.

LLR's notion of a "science driver" isn't diametrically
opposite Fuller's artifact-driven design science, though
unfortunately LLR has weird ideas of what's an effective
SD (e.g. 'Star Wars' -- Brian will tell you he was never
for the current edition of that idea, but still...).[1]

I think if we're true Buckynauts (working in the spirit
of Fuller's fondest hopes), we will actually focus more
on artifacts (e.g. fuel cells) and less on politics (e.g.
who's on first i.e. occupying whitehouse.gov).  As artist-
engineers, we have more power to effect positive change
through design/artifacts than granted us by the quasi-
democracy at the polling booth.

A more complete ('fuller' heh heh) conception of 'democracy'
puts each one of us in a personal workspace, engaged in
value-adding (at least potentially) edit-recombine operations
(you import, rearrange according to microcosmic heuristics,
and export, with synergetic advantage = value adding in a
metaphysical, anti-entropic sense).[2]

Kirby

[1] my own political cartoon re 'Star Wars' (whichever
version): http://members.nbci.com/Urner/cartoons/cartoon5.html

[2] for more on the edit/recombine personal workspace
idea:  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/gstuniv.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:09:40 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
In-Reply-To:  <20010313202223.25108.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
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I would caution against too much speculation sans any ability
to really do testing in the lab.  You'd want to infect an
earthwork and zap it with frequencies, for example, before
having any more to say re the viability of such an approach.

Seems to me that pages like:
http://www.i-care.net/Technical.htm
are preying on peoples' hopes, more than on sound scientific
verification strategies.  You'll invariably get a testimonial
or two from people who staged a come-back (for whatever reason),
but the financially-invested usually don't tell us about all
those others who died.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:17:06 -0800
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20010313130940.03457c80@pop3.norton.antivirus>
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At 01:09 PM 03/13/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>I would caution against too much speculation sans any ability
>to really do testing in the lab.  You'd want to infect an
>earthwork
 ^^^^^^^^^

Um...  earthworm (a.k.a. nightcrawler).  :-D

ybriK
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:49:39 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      harmony generator
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This looks like a neat program. Does anyone know about it?



http://www.scripps.edu/pub/olson-web/doc/harmony/node1.html#SECTION00010000000000000000

Dick
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Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:29:10 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: triaxial weave
Comments: To: ed Hughes <verypissedoff@hotmail.com>
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Hi Ed,

Glad to be of service.  Sorry about the purple-on-black; that's a graphic
left over from my Amiga days.  It's on my list to eventually redo.

As far as triaxial weaving looms go--you got me.  I haven't actually read
most of those articles & so I don't know if there are any pictures.  There
is VERY little info re triaxial weaving.  I've had a hard time coming up
with even these references.

Ref: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3WayVs2Way.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "ed Hughes" <verypissedoff@hotmail.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 8:16 PM
Subject: triaxial weave


> I first learned about triaxial weave in early '80s.  Try to learn more
about
> it a few years ago.  Very little out there.  Just checked online - WOW!
> Enjoyed your site, but PLEASE!!! purple on black is NOT easy to read. What
> I'm really curious about is: what does a loom look like?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:37:08 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: LaRouche

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            13-MAR-2001 12:37
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I don't see what your complaint is, Dick (nor
 of the say-so about "GBLT," which must refer to paraphilia;
 tee-hee).  OK, so, you haven't read the "New Dyspensation,"
 including Paul's (ne Saul) Chorinthians:13, and
 so are completely at odds with ... some thing!
    if you want LL's definition of natural law,
 thten just reas a tract or three, more.
    or, appositely, you could just get a copy of Fidelio,
 21st C. Science & Tech, or EIR (ne, Campaigner, Fusion, and ...
 the newmag was started after the corruptly forced bankruptcy;
 New Federalist, our paper, began as New Solidarity, as
 it still is in other countries .-)

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:41:05 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: LaRouche

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            13-MAR-2001 12:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 and here's an alternative (?) view of IT ALL (42, What?):

  SUBJECT: Re: [Quaker-P] Boundary issues in Quaker-p list
  MESSAGE   from Brian Quincy Hutchings             12-MAR-20 14:05

   The is of the rules of exclusion of discourses has been
   theorized by a number of rhetoric scholars over several
   decades, and this Quaker debate follows some classic patterns.

   I won't bore you with lengthy summaries of the views of
   these mostly post-structrualist theorists, but here are
   their theories in capsule if you want to go read the books:

   Michel Foucault.  _Archaeology of Knowledge_.  F. says
   that knowledge is constructed by hidden systems of control,
   power not in anyone's possession but flowing in discourse.
   There are systems of exclusion in any discursive community
   that keep down the power of discourse and "it's tremendous
   materiality from overspilling some boundaries."

   Antonio Gramsci.  _Prison Notebooks_.  G. says that every society
   and subgroup have their discourses, which contend in order to be
   hegemonic.  No society can exists without hegemonic discourse,
   but no society exists that does not have its hegemonic discourses
   challenged by competing discourses.

   There's also Go"ran Therborn's _The  Ideology of Power and Power
   of Ideology_ that shows how discourse writes us by giving us our
   view of reality: what exists, what is good, and what is possible.

   And Louis Althusser's essay "Ideology and the State Ideological
   Apparatuses."  Thes emay be publis or private ISAs.  Althusser
   disputes the "base" and "superstructural" model that reduces all
   "in the final instance" to economic determination.  He says
   culture is a factor that cannot be disregarded or isolated to
   secondary importance.

   Finally, my favorite new theory of discourse in groups and issues
   of who gets to say what.  Victor Vitanza's _Negation, Subjectivity,
   and the History of Rhetoric_.  Beyond every binary opposition
   that language constructs in us, VV creates a view of a "third
   position" of non-positive affirmation.  How do we break out of
   "This is or is not allowable here?"  I would turn to VV's brilliant
   and witty history of the traps of rhetoric and the built-in binaries
   and negations of Western languages and discourse.

   Sorry to go on so long.  Hope this is of interest, even if
   stepping outside the canonical works of the Friends.

   Gloria
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:49:51 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: viral shells

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            13-MAR-2001 12:49
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 here's an example of stuff per Rife,
 that has appeared in our magazine:
 I'll recall the author of the book,
 Tuning into Nature, but he had an article which showed that
 the GP-120 protien (referring to its molecular weight)
 that constitutes the knobs on the icosahedral shell,
 in combination witht he protien of the rest of the shell,
 constitures the formation of a "top-hat dipole antenna,"
 because of the difference in dielectricity between them.

 thus quoth:
  A Look At the Frequencies of Rife-related Plasma Emission
  Devices          by Charlene Boehm

  This is a story of an exploration with numbers.
  The origin of the MORs (Mortal Oscillatory Rates of
  bacteria and viruses), originally discovered by Royal Rife
  during the first half of the twentieth century, has
  perplexed many people since that time. While it is
  generally
  acknowledged that some type of resonance phenomenon
  destroyed or debilitated the organisms, it has been
  difficult at best to pinpoint any association of specific
  frequency with what is physically affecting these life
  forms during the time of their debilitation or demise.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:57:25 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Another alert on climate change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            13-MAR-2001 12:57
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.  if anyone took offense at my one-liner
 on the glass-house gas protocols, I guess that I set myself "up"
 for it.  in any case, whether it matters taht
 the Bronfmans are Jewish, or however nominally-so (mom was
 e.g.), the facts on the hostile takeover of DuPont are Legion, and
 included the abduction of an heir by the infamous CAN,
 to try to keep his money away from Lyn!
    if you'd like the hard data on the extent of chlorine
 that is speewing out of volcanoes, I'll hunt it "down."

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >  http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:00:06 -0700
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Now for something entirely different.
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Bubba was bragging to his boss one day, "You know, I know everyone there
is to know. Just name someone, anyone, and I know them."=20

Tired of his boasting, his boss called his bluff,

 "OK, Bubba how about Tom Cruise?"=20
"Sure, yes, Tom and I are old friends, and I can prove it.

" So Bubba and his boss fly out to Hollywood
and knock on Tom Cruise's door, and sure enough, Tom Cruise, shouts,
"Bubba! Great to see you! You and your friend come right in and join me
for lunch!"

Although impressed, Bubba's boss is still skeptical. After they leave
Cruise's house, he tells Bubba that he thinks Bubba's knowing Cruise was
just lucky.=20

"No, no, just name anyone else," Bubba says.=20

"President Clinton," his boss quickly retorts.=20

"Yes," Bubba says, "I know him, let's fly out to Washington."=20

And off they go. At the White House, Clinton spots Bubba on the tour and =
motions him and his
boss over, saying, "Bubba, what a surprise, I was just on my way to a
meeting, but you and your friend come on in and let's have a cup of =
coffee first andcatch up."

Well, the boss is very shaken by now, but still not totally convinced.
After they leave the White house grounds, he expresses his doubts to
Bubba, who again
implores him to name anyone else.=20

"The Pope," his boss replies.=20

"Sure!" says Bubba. "I've known the Pope a long time."

 So off they fly to Rome.

Bubba and his boss are assembled with the masses in Vatican Square when =
Bubba says,=20

"This will never work. I can't catch the Pope's eye among all these =
people.
Tell you what, I know all the guards so let me just go upstairs and I'll =
come out on the
balcony with the Pope."=20

And he disappears into the crowd headed toward the Vatican.
Sure enough, half an hour later Bubba emerges with the Pope on the
balcony. But by the time Bubba returns, he finds that his boss has had a
heart attack and issurrounded by paramedics. Working his way to his =
boss' side, Bubba asks him,=20

"What happened?"
His boss looks up and says,=20

"I was doing fine until you and the Pope
came out on the balcony and the man next to me said, "Who's that on the
balcony with Bubba?"





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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bubba was bragging to his boss one day, =
"You know,=20
I know everyone there<BR>is to know. Just name someone, anyone, and I =
know=20
them." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tired of his boasting, his boss called =
his=20
bluff,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;"OK, Bubba how about Tom Cruise?" =

</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Sure, yes, Tom and I are old friends, =
and I can=20
prove it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>" So Bubba and his boss fly out to =
Hollywood<BR>and=20
knock on Tom Cruise's door, and sure enough, Tom Cruise, =
shouts,<BR>"Bubba!=20
Great to see you! You and your friend come right in and join me<BR>for=20
lunch!"<BR><BR>Although impressed, Bubba's boss is still skeptical. =
After they=20
leave<BR>Cruise's house, he tells Bubba that he thinks Bubba's knowing =
Cruise=20
was<BR>just lucky. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"No, no, just name anyone else," Bubba =
says.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"President Clinton," his boss quickly =
retorts.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Yes," Bubba says, "I know him, let's =
fly out to=20
Washington." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And off they go. At the White House, =
Clinton spots=20
Bubba on the tour and motions him and his<BR>boss over, saying, =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>"Bubba, what a surprise, I was just on my way to =
a<BR>meeting,=20
but you and your friend come on in and let's have a cup of coffee first =
andcatch=20
up."<BR><BR>Well, the boss is very shaken by now, but still not totally=20
convinced.<BR>After they leave the White house grounds, he expresses his =
doubts=20
to<BR>Bubba, who again<BR>implores him to name anyone else. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"The Pope," his boss replies. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Sure!" says Bubba. "I've known the =
Pope a long=20
time."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;So off they fly to =
Rome.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Bubba and his boss are assembled =
with the=20
masses in Vatican Square when Bubba says, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"This will never work. I can't catch =
the Pope's eye=20
among all these people.<BR>Tell you what, I know all the guards so let =
me just=20
go upstairs and I'll come out on the<BR>balcony with the Pope." =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And he disappears into the crowd headed =
toward the=20
Vatican.<BR>Sure enough, half an hour later Bubba emerges with the Pope =
on=20
the<BR>balcony. But by the time Bubba returns, he finds that his boss =
has had=20
a<BR>heart attack and issurrounded by paramedics. Working his way to his =
boss'=20
side, Bubba asks him, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"What happened?"<BR>His boss looks up =
and says,=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"I was doing fine until you and the =
Pope<BR>came=20
out on the balcony and the man next to me said, "Who's that on =
the<BR>balcony=20
with Bubba?"<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0AC11.586E0280--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:42:05 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: viral shells
In-Reply-To:  <200103132049.f2DKnpJ12029@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

it has been
>   difficult at best to pinpoint any association of
> specific
>   frequency with what is physically affecting these life
>   forms during the time of their debilitation or demise.

This is exactly why I am looking into the synergetic
measurement of oscilatory frequencies of these minute
structures. If this has not been done, I volunteer.(If it
has been done, let me know)

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:44:45 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] energy and climate change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-MAR-2001  6:44
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 if Curwood'll be plenary speaker at the FGC, what is it?
    the most recent news, in the LATimes, is that the Mayor is going
 to reignite the coal-fired deals with Utah, which stil supplies
 a large part of our e, here.  so,
 why is this Republican (and rather Greenoid,
 having brought-in Dave Freeman of both "green-e" and e-dereg fame)
 setting himnself at odds with the EPA's diktats?
    could it be, because these issues will be decided in the courts,
 with the vast prodding of the free-market ideologs -- and
 what will htey make of the presumed marketization of CO2?

 the dyscussion of a carbon-tax is another one
 of the ill-framed matters of world government.  such may not be needed,
 if we actually went back to tarrifs, to both support local alternatives,
 and make the price of the fossilstuff (sik) reasonable
 for the suppliers (as developing nations).  of course,
 such a theme is anathema to the neolib/neocon mafia
 of New Age economists, whose founding ideology is,
 British Liberal Free Trade (that is, entirely empirical !-)

 finally, the idea that Senate ratification of the Protocols
 will only amount to $124 per US resident per year, is hogwash, and
 undoubtedly praying upon the notion of a benign anglo-american hegemon,
 that will attempt to keep their bubble afloat,
 by extracting the harshest measures from other nations.
    you must simply see BP-Arco on the Arctic Coast, and
 BP-Amoco in Trinidad (LNG to the Northeast) for what they are:
 the center-pins in that benign PR blitz -- "beyond petroleum!"

 thus quoth:
  United States.   Today, 3/14/01  almost as a top off  to the story we
 have
  the story that Bush is not going to ask for power plant controls of green
  house gases, not keeping his campaign promises and undercutting his EPA
  secretary in one  act.
  Living on Earth (NPR program with Steve Curwood who will be plenary
 speaker

 thus quoth:
  implemented now, shortly before scads of new power plants are built, that
  they will be implemented later, and today's coal plants are unlikely to
 be
  grandfathered in. Any responsible utility, when making a decision about
  building a new power plant, should assume that the rules for both natural
  gas and coal will change fairly soon, and fairly expensively.

 thus quoth:
  I heard (The Newshour-PBS-last week) that the cost of complying with the
 Kyoto
  agreement would be $124 or so per person per year.  I'm unclear if that
 is for
  the world, or just for the US, or, for the developed world.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:05:30 -0600
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: triaxial weave
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> There
> is VERY little info re triaxial weaving.  I've had a hard time
> coming up
> with even these references.

Isn't that the same pattern used for the "weave a potholder" kits
for kids?

I remember that there was a hand-loom available when I was a
kid, that let me use little bands, hooked around a loom that was
hexagonal.  Wasn't hard to do, either.

Now, granted, this is a far cry from something that's commercially
viable as a loom for mass production, but might it still serve as a
model for one?

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:50:53 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Conserving the Inner Ecology & Dhammic Socialism
MIME-Version: 1.0
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These folks in Thailand have an interesting perspective on harmonizing
the inner (mental and spiritual) and outer (social and environmental)
ecologies of human life on this planet. It's the best plan I've found
so far. -Dex

Conserving the Inner Ecology
http://www.suanmokkh.org/ds/ecology1.htm

What is Dhammic Socialism?
http://www.suanmokkh.org/ds/what_ds1.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:16:18 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Conserving the Inner Ecology & Dhammic Socialism

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-MAR-2001 12:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, they start-in with the usual Marksist rhetoric,
 that "capitalism" is the same thing as the root of all evil
 (and/or materialism, which is also strange,
 coming from the hardcore marksist mindframe !-)

 thus quoth:
 Don't believe that socialism is dead! This is just the materialist
 propaganda of neo-conservative diehard capitalists. Real socialism has
 never been tried on a large scale.

  What is Dhammic Socialism?
  http://www.suanmokkh.org/ds/what_ds1.htm

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley/net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:25:19 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: LaRouche

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-MAR-2001 12:25
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 http://www.larouchepub.com
 http://www.schillerinstitute.org
 http://www.larouchein2004.com
 http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm

 right, like we, the few followers (consciously,
 not counting the yiddishkite bandwagoners) of Moses Mendelsohn, and
 chief of the exposers of Hitler's backing (George's grand-Poppy?),
 are supposed to be antisemitic?
    we don't even hate Mormons, although
 it's a harder effort with the Holy Brutish Umpire, and its Godqueen!

 but, to each his/her/its/their/out own,
 I always say.

 thus quoth:
  >     if you want LL's definition of natural law,
  >  thten just reas a tract or three, more.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 19:16:04 -0800
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: triaxial weave
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Years ago (1977?) there were triaxial weave racquetball rackets on the
market; see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3wayRackets.htm

And I think Bucky proposed a 3-way weave floor:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3wayFloors.htm

There are many types of triaxial weave baskets in Asia:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3wayBasket1.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles J Knight" <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: triaxial weave


> > There
> > is VERY little info re triaxial weaving.  I've had a hard time
> > coming up
> > with even these references.
>
> Isn't that the same pattern used for the "weave a potholder" kits
> for kids?
>
> I remember that there was a hand-loom available when I was a
> kid, that let me use little bands, hooked around a loom that was
> hexagonal.  Wasn't hard to do, either.
>
> Now, granted, this is a far cry from something that's commercially
> viable as a loom for mass production, but might it still serve as a
> model for one?
>
>      -- Chuck Knight
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:01:24 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dead link
Comments: To: Ian Woofenden <ian.woofenden@homepower.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ian,

Thanks for the update.  Sorry to hear that Pac Puzzle is no more.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Woofenden" <ian.woofenden@homepower.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:51 PM
Subject: Dead link

> Hi Joe,
>
> You have a dead link to Pacific Puzzle Company on your site at
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Will-Work.htm
>
> I shut the company down three years ago. Can you remove the link?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ian
> --
> Ian Woofenden <ian.woofenden@homepower.com>, Fax: 360-293-7034
> Associate Editor, Home Power magazine, The Hands-On Journal Of Home-Made
Power
> Editors are Professional Idiots - We misunderstand text so our readers
won't.
>
> HP subscriptions: $22.50 per year, PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA
> 800-707-6585 (US), 541-512-0220, or download current issue at
> <http://www.homepower.com>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:05:55 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      FW: R. Buckminster Fuller Archive @ Stanford
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Siegmund" <siegmund@thegrid.net>
To: "Tetglobal" <tetglobal@listbot.com>; "Tetglobal"
<tetglobal@listbot.com>; "Tetworld Advisory Committee" <adcomm@listbot.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:37 AM
Subject: [adcomm] FW: R. Buckminster Fuller Archive @ Stanford


> Tetworld Global Advisory Committee - http://www.tetworld.org
>
> > From: Roberto Trujillo <trujillo@sulmail.stanford.edu>
> > Reply-To: trujillo@sulmail.stanford.edu
> > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:38:44 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> > To: siegmund@thegrid.net, Tetworld@tripod.net
> > Cc: makeller@sulmail.stanford.edu, trujillo@sulmail.stanford.edu
> > Subject: R. Buckminster Fuller Archive @ Stanford
> >
> > Dear Mr. Siegmund:
> >
> > On February 26, 2001 you sent Michael Keller,
> > University Librarian at Stanford, a email message
> > asking about the status of the R. Buckminister
> > Fuller Archive.  Indeed, the Fuller Archive is at
> > Stanford, however, it is currently physically
> > being transferred to a library building where our
> > staff will have access to it and will begin work
> > in organizing the collection for scholarly
> > access.  We nonetheless anticipate that we will
> > be able to provide some access to a large
> > portion of the collection shortly after the end
> > of this month.  If you let us know what you are
> > searching for we can have our staff consult some
> > of the indices to the collection that already
> > exist and with any luck we will be able to
> > retrieve the material you are interested in.
> >
> > You also asked about any plans to digitize some
> > part of the archive.  We certainly have interests
> > in digital possibilities but until our staff
> > completes its survey of the material we will not
> > develop plans for digital initiatives.
> >
> > If we can be of assitance please do contact me
> > directly.
> >
> > Cordially,
> >
> > Roberto G. Trujillo
> > Head, Department of Special Collections
> > ~
> > Frances & Charles Field Curator
> > of Special Collections
> > STANFORD UNIVERSITY LIBRARIES/GREEN LIBRARY
> > Stanford, California  94305-6004
> > tel: (650) 725-9308  fax: (605) 723-8690
> >
> > email:  trujillo@sulmail.stanford.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:19:28 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dome Models in Paper
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wayne,

You may find the following links interesting:
http://www.telescoweb.com/shelter/plydome/index.html (Japan)

http://209.196.135.250/plywood_dome.htm (patent)

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3wayDomePlywood.htm
(Domebook 1, p 27)

http://p3.org/stl/english/research/hp5.html (Japan)

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 12:16 PM
Subject: re: Dome Models in Paper


> From: Herbert Crow <wcrow@telepath.com>
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:41:16 -0600
>
> Hey gang,
>   Has anyone else taken index card stock or poster board and
> made models to test various construction ideas?  I have made
> a few dozen and found a round "skin" or monolithic model has
> an amazing amount of strength.  The models I made with
> folds, which is the basic triangle dome system, seem much
> weaker.  The increased stiffening by the folded seams seem
> to work against the shape.  I would guess the tension on the
> card stock that is warping the fibers outward, forming a
> monolithic shell is what makes this design so strong.  You
> do not have that with triangle pattern domes.  You can also
> see a more gentle transfer of any stress applied to any
> focused area in monolithic.  Has anyone else noticed this?
>   I have been playing around with some of the designs Steve
> Miller did with plywood and the results are much more
> impressive then with the same done with triangles made of
> the same stuff.  The folds force the stresses to concentrate
> at the joints.  The joints in this case are at the edge of
> each triangle.  There are many really great epoxy products
> that will bond plywood so well even the best plywood will
> fail before the glue seam (overlap) will.  Most impressive.
> No need for screws, nails or other fasteners.  Now all that
> stuff in the old dome books, or shelter books about plywood
> "skin" domes is starting to make more sense.  Of course I am
> still convinced the plywood is a nuisance as time goes by,
> and I would want to use a ferrocement skin over it to
> provide protection and long life home "skin", or shell.
> Boats are fine made of plywood, but if I can avoid
> maintenance, why not do so?  What do you think Steve?  Hey,
> I really would like to see more of your work.  Have you
> posted most stuff at a web site yet?  I would be interested
> in both large and small projects.  If anyone has not played
> around with index card, or poster board models in a while,
> you might want to do what I did.  See if you notice the same
> things.  Wayne
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Mar 2001 05:01:09 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Bushware!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            15-MAR-2001  5:01
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Sorry for the untimeliness, but I'd left the C section
 of yesterday's WSJ, elsewhere, and didn't get back to the part
 that was briefed on pA1, about Secty. Sir Powell's insistence,
 along with Dole, Feingold, Thompson et al,
 that a "only two paragraphs in a 420-page package,"
 be removed by the two Senators' amendment - supposed
 to be debated, today!
    Although it covers the recent, amazing linkage
 of Lloyd's o'London to Quackenbush (former Calif. Commish
 of Insurance), it completely fails to mention the grounds
 of the "scam," from when Lloyd's schemed
 to recover its betting-losses on asbestos!
    The Journal'd recently goten into how the packaging
 of the domestic cases was dragging on, while never bothering
 with the underlaying "industry" of needlessly ripping this stuff
 out of buildings - before they're too dilapidated to save, anyway,
 of course - and replacing it with inferior refractants against fire.
    (All of the cases, that I know of, have strictly involved those
 who installed the asbestos, and most of those,
 before they knew better (WW2 Liberty Boat boiler-room-makers e.g.).)
    This also has a lot to do with what ms. Street brought forth,
 re the EPA's old "LNT" paradigm, which was very aptly ridiculed.

 Please, compare these tactical shennanigans,
 Re: [Quaker-P] energy and climate change; thank you!

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:49:13 +0430
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From:         tina <tina@MAIL.DCI.CO.IR>
Subject:      Send Mail to Me
Comments: To: W3POOH@aol.com, tracy & da SWAMPdogs <clumber@bigfoot.com>,
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Hello ... Hello ...

Please Send Mail to Tina.
ok...
Excuseme My Mail Now is Valid in Iran And You Can
Send Mail to Me.

My Address For One Day was Error And Now is ok...

Thanks.
hamed

------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0ADAA.89A7E060
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello ... Hello ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please&nbsp;Send Mail to =
Tina.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ok...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Excuseme&nbsp;My Mail =
Now&nbsp;is&nbsp;Valid in=20
Iran And You Can</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Send Mail to Me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My Address For One Day was Error And =
Now is=20
ok...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>hamed</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0ADAA.89A7E060--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:08:27 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Bushware!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            15-MAR-2001 13:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 IMAGINE A POLYGLOT culture with a hot economy,
 much envied by the rest of the world,
 that suddnly runs into trouble.
    Its shell-shocked leaders are inundated
 with advice from economic technocrats,
 many of whom insist that nothing bad would
 have happened had their earlier advice been heeded.
 Investments that seemed to be sure winners
 look imprudent in hindsight.  Washington pressures
 the governemnt to raise energy prices,
 dismissing local protests.  The lights go out.
 The search for scapegoats begins.
    Indonesia 1997?  Or California 2001?
    ...
    ..California's state government plans
 to borrow $10 billion this year on Wall Street.
 That's roughly what the IMF has lent Indonesia
 in the past 3 years, but Indonesia had to promise
 energy-price increases to get the money.
    The precise understanding between Indonesia and
 the IMF is in dispute, but the Suharto goment raised fuel prices
 sharply on May 4, 1998, triggering riots.  Less than 3 weeks later,
 Mr. Suharto's 32-year rule was over.

 --WaStreJnl, 3/15/01 pA1, "Capital" column (Usury is capitalism?)

 also note the p A26, "How the President Changed His Mind,"
 second column, about both O'Neill's post-"global holocaust" (statement,
 in the first Cabinet-meeting, reported else where), and
 the Congressional study that was brought by a losing Republican,
 conveniently "little-known" -- which rather goes against
 that silly $124/year-person figure.
    the key, of course, is "an emmissions-trading system," and that
 there are "currently know commercially avialable technologies
 for removing CO2," other than planting hemp --
 for haemorrhoids; Bogart that poultice!

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:10:44 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Bushware!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            15-MAR-2001 13:10
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  SUBJECT: Bushware!
  MESSAGE   from ="List                             15-MAR-20 12:37
  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            15-MAR-2001  5:01
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   Sorry for the untimeliness, but I'd left the C section
   of yesterday's WSJ, elsewhere, and didn't get back to the part
   that was briefed on pA1, about Secty. Sir Powell's insistence,
   along with Dole, Feingold, Thompson et al,
   that a "only two paragraphs in a 420-page package,"
   be removed by the two Senators' amendment - supposed
   to be debated, today!
      Although it covers the recent, amazing linkage
   of Lloyd's o'London to Quackenbush (former Calif. Commish
   of Insurance), it completely fails to mention the grounds
   of the "scam," from when Lloyd's schemed
   to recover its betting-losses on asbestos!
      The Journal'd recently goten into how the packaging
   of the domestic cases was dragging on, while never bothering
   with the underlaying "industry" of needlessly ripping this stuff
   out of buildings - before they're too dilapidated to save, anyway,
   of course - and replacing it with inferior refractants against fire.
      (All of the cases, that I know of, have strictly involved those
   who installed the asbestos, and most of those,
   before they knew better (WW2 Liberty Boat boiler-room-makers e.g.).)
      This also has a lot to do with what ms. Street brought forth,
   re the EPA's old "LNT" paradigm, which was very aptly ridiculed.

   Please, compare these tactical shennanigans,
   Re: [Quaker-P] energy and climate change; thank you!

   --Les Dukes d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:20:15 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Syria, Jordan Link Power Grids
Comments: To: "Meisen, Peter" <peter@geni.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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MSNBC item for 3-14-01:


http://www.individual.com/network/msnbc/story.shtml?story=v0314195.7xi&level
3=27204

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:57:40 -0800
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      M-vironments housing system prototype
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Here is an interesting housing system made with composite
concrete panels mounted on a steel frame. It's modular and
can be reassembled by two people armed with wrenches. -Dex

http://www.walrus.com/~ddprod/michaeljantzen/processmhouse.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:17:41 -0500
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From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: M-vironments housing system prototype
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Kool and Kinky!
I can see some dude with a welder "going to fix it..."
LOL!  Now, a couple more wind panels that are translucent...
BillSF9c

> Here is an interesting housing system made with composite
> concrete panels mounted on a steel frame. It's modular and
> can be reassembled by two people armed with wrenches. -Dex
>
> http://www.walrus.com/~ddprod/michaeljantzen/processmhouse.html
>
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Mar 2001 20:44:05 -0800
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From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      Dome website
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    http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/

    Be there or be square
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 06:31:46 -0800
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      FW: from Allegra Snyder
Comments: To: Tetglobal <tetglobal@listbot.com>,
          Tetworld <Tetworld@listbot.com>,
          Tetworld Advisory Committee <adcomm@listbot.com>,
          "Geodesic Listserve GEODESIC"@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
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Hi, Bucky tapes on internet...

Mark

----------
> From: AFSNYDER@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:25:31 EST
> To: aedmondson@hbs.edu, Daronatlas@aol.com, trimtab@sprynet.com,
> dbuck44@silcon.com, gerald@beautifulcode.nl, glovil@yahoo.com,
> tetra@photovault.com, siegmund@thegrid.net, tag-design@mediaone.net,
> MTabbal@mednet.ucla.edu
> Subject: Fwd: EIK
>
> I'm forwarding this on to those who might be interested. Allegra
>

>
> Dear Bucky folks,
>
> The first 3 of 12 sessions of Everything I Know, audio and text, is now on
> the Internet at
> <A HREF="http://www.omnifelicity.com/bucky/Default.htm">Click here: EIK </A>
> or
> http://www.omnifelicity.com/bucky/Default.htm
>
> All links to the audio files are maximized for speed of access. You should
> hear every file within a second or two of clicking on it.  Note that you may
> either click on individual paragraphs, or select continuous play, which
> brings up a playlist for the entire session and will play the files in
> succession, unless you skip to a number from the list, or press PageUp (go
> back) or PageDn (go to next file).
>
> If you have any trouble at all hearing any files right away, please inform me.
>
> The session pages are quite long, and may take a little while to download
> completely. If you start playing the audio immediately, it will respond, but
> you may find a "Transfer interrupted" partway thru the file. If so, just
> reload the page and allow it to download fully. If the long pages are a
> problem, we can split each session into a number of shorter pages.  Please
> comment on your experience with this.
>
> For a short while a variety of fonts will be displayed on the first 84
> paragraphs. Please muse on these as you listen and let me know which seem to
> fit and which do not. You'll notice that the paragraphs are numbered.
>
> The theme - background texture, typestyle and colors - can be anything we
> want. Suggestions?
>
> Russ Chu is getting geared up in Seattle to help process some of the hours.
> We spent several hours talking and setting up the programs last night, thanks
> to Yahoo voice chat on the Internet.
>
> I'd be delighted to hear anything at all from you....and would you please
> pass this along to other Bucky folks for whom you may have email
> addresses...such as Amy E. et al?
>
> THANKS!
>
>
> Synergically,
>
>
> Jim Morrissett
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 06:24:43 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Politics and science?  USGS Scientist fired over A

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            17-MAR-2001  6:24
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            17-MAR-2001  4:47
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   could he have been fired for another cause, as suspicious as it is?
      what says it all, for me, was the recent reports that
   the team of representatives from the "fossilstuff" biz,
   that have been developing the President's policies this whole while,
   was actually initiated by the Veep.  in implimenting the details
   of an emmissions-trading program (there are some in existance,
   of course), the Bush Admin. is doing most of the work
   that'd have been required of the UNIPCC.
      as for "sneering" at the latter, just because
   such is done by a fossilman, does not mean that there is no reason
   to do so; au contraire.  the UN is quite an abomination by the standards
   of none-other than FDR, as you can see from his life-long writings (that
   is to say, pre-presidency) and from Elliot Roosevelt's memoir.  surely,
   there are salveageble elements of what has largely been,
   largely from the beginning with Truman's implimentation,
   more in the line of Wilson's League of Nations "condominium" (or
   anglo-american hegemon; look no further than the Gulf War, and
   the imposition by Bush, Thatcher, Mitterand et al
   of a virtual *satrap* status upon the rest of the members
   of NATO *and* the UN).

   thus quoth:
    This needs attention. It seems to indicate a sea-change in the
 Department
    of Interior.  While this is not a surprise given Bush's position on the
    Refuge, we should make sure that it does not go unnoticed.  If it bugs
   you

   well, they may be happy over the controversy!

   --Les Dukes d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 06:26:29 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Politics and science?  USGS Scientist fired over A

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            17-MAR-2001  6:26
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I'll type-out the whole flyer from Schneider's talk, later,
 which is easy because it's so terse -- there's no abstract!
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:24:19 -0800
Reply-To:     peter@geni.org
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         geni <peter@GENI.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Syria, Jordan Link Power Grids
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Joe,
Thanks again for the clipping service!
Just returned from two significant meetings:
1. 5th Hemispheric Energy Ministers in mexico City
2. "Are Renewables Ready" at Royal Institute of Int'l Affairs

It's in incredibily active field right now.  With people all sides of the
spectrum.  Sucess is not assured -- but there are positive signs and few
talented people on our side.
Peter

Joe S Moore wrote:

> MSNBC item for 3-14-01:
>
> http://www.individual.com/network/msnbc/story.shtml?story=v0314195.7xi&level
> 3=27204
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Joe,
<br>Thanks again for the clipping service!
<br>Just returned from two significant meetings:
<br>1. 5th Hemispheric Energy Ministers in mexico City
<br>2. "Are Renewables Ready" at Royal Institute of Int'l Affairs
<p>It's in incredibily active field right now.&nbsp; With people all sides
of the spectrum.&nbsp; Sucess is not assured -- but there are positive
signs and few talented people on our side.
<br>Peter
<p>Joe S Moore wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>MSNBC item for 3-14-01:
<p><a href="http://www.individual.com/network/msnbc/story.shtml?story=v0314195.7xi&level">http://www.individual.com/network/msnbc/story.shtml?story=v0314195.7xi&amp;level</a>
<br>3=27204
<p>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
<br>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: <a href="http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</a></blockquote>
</html>

--------------1C1887A5A02C35B137422B48--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:04:32 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
Comments: To: Tetworld Global Advisory Committee <adcomm@listbot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Mark et al,

I watched a TV program late the other night about the impact of electricity
on the 20th century (sorry, didn't catch the name) which stated that 2/3 of
the people of the Earth now have electricity.  Of course, that still leaves
1/3 that need to be electrified.

Also, from some very preliminary research that I have done, it appears that
about half of the Global Energy Distribution Grid is now in place.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Siegmund" <siegmund@thegrid.net>
To: "Tetworld Global Advisory Committee" <adcomm@listbot.com>
Cc: "Tetglobal" <tetglobal@listbot.com>; "Tetworld" <Tetworld@listbot.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: [adcomm] Energy


> Tetworld Global Advisory Committee - http://www.tetworld.org
>
> Rick,  in Critical Path, Bucky in speaking of the world game, says that
one
> of the most critical/important goals/tools (for the world game) is the
> creation of the global energy grid.  Linking total earth's generating
> capacities/capabilities to be deployed where needed--low demand times in
> given region(s) free up capacity to be shunted where and when needed,
etc..
> Peter Meisen (a Tetworld member) and his organization GENI
> http://www.geni.org are working hard at making this happen.
>
> The question of weaning from exhaustibles/depletables or nuclear (all
> dangerous environmental pollutants) as prime generators on that global
grid
> e.g.  to clean solar derived generation, e.g., solar-electric,
solar-steam.
> wave action, geothermal, tidal,  wind, biomass, etc., is another
matter--and
> a trend which seems to be increasing in many parts of the world--with
Europe
> leading the way in large scale wind generation, utilizing very large wind
> turbines positioned off-shore to take maximum advantage of prevailing
winds.
>
> Then there is the question of providing electricity to the 70% of those in
> the developing world who are without it.  The Solar Electric Fund
> http://www.self.org is working to bring solar photovoltaic systems to
rural
> villages--places where running power lines is far too costly for
> governments.  These applications will be "off the grid".
>
> Then there is the seemingly imminent addition of localized, home, auto and
> business application, "fuel cells" which again will create "off the grid"
> localized power capabilities.
>
> Energy is but one of about 15 critical variables considered necessary to
be
> put in place to "Make the World Work for Everyone".  Examples of others
are:
> food, shelter ,education, communicatons , health, transportation, data
> resources, logistics...
>
> All need to be addressed as co-variables in a "minimal set" leading to
human
> success.
>
> So we need to develop global overviews on all of this, supported by data,
> and the ability to display the data derived
> overviews/projections/postulates/models/trends--this gives rise to the
need
> for our global electronic display/data dymaxion map, ala the Tetworld
Earth
> Observatory.  The creation of this large scale observatory represents a
> fully funded and fully operational tetworld game.
>
> But, much can be done while leading up to the large scale of a fullest
> possible game capability.
>
> We can write software programs (if they are not currently available) which
> will display the requisite data in the dymaxion (map) format and display
> results on our computer screens.  Programs will also be able to factor in
> required variables, provide overlays, respond to "what if" scenarios,
> develop models, etc..
>
> We can develop a sketch of what the world looks like today with respect to
> our critical co-variables.
>
> We can ask, in a perfect world what would a sketch of the world look like
> (with respect to our co-variables).
>
> We can "measure" the difference(s) between the "actual" and "preferred"
> world sketches--this will show the work that needs to be done to move from
> the first to the preferred state(s).
>
> We can then develop an "action" plan(s) to get us there.  A great
logistics
> exercise, much like that which you describe participating in, in your
> capacity as a "middle man" in a major oil company.  At Tetworld not only
> assessing need, locating resources and delivering energy where needed, but
> the other essential "commodities" of the game as well.
>
> So we are indeed fortunate to have your talents, skills, knowledge and
> expertise available at Tetworld.  Bucky credits his experiences as a naval
> officer and the views of naval needs with respect to global logistics as
> having been important in his own development.  Perhaps your training and
> experience as an officer in the Merchant Marine have served you in the
same
> manner.
>
> My current proposal for tetworld gaming is basically this:
>
> 1.  to locate/select about 10 of the best organizations/efforts working in
> each of the co-variables
> 2.  propose to them the value(s) of working together in synergy to
mutually
> advance the aspirations of each
> 3.  invite them to gather with us on the internet to plot a course of
action
> and ways and means of working together
> 4.  undertake that course of action
> 5.  our primary responsibility will be to provide the design or model and
> the supporting organizational and data infrastructure through which the
> action will be "played" out.
>
> Your analogy of the operations of the oil market is especially appropriate
> here.
>
> Mark
>
> > From: "Marriner R (Rick)" <RMarriner@equiva.com>
> > Reply-To: "Tetworld Global Advisory Committee" <adcomm@listbot.com>
> > Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:23:50 -0600
> > To: "'Tetworld Global Advisory Committee'" <adcomm@listbot.com>
> > Subject: [adcomm] Energy
> >
> > Tetworld Global Advisory Committee - http://www.tetworld.org
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > I am struggling with the concept of monitoring spaceship earth's energy
> > balance.  Working for a major oil company I am immersed in the trade of
> > providing a large potion of the daily energy to the world.  Upstream
from my
> > group, the oil exploration and extraction groups have an amazing
> > infrastructure for finding oil and bringing it from the depths to the
> > surface.  The refineries that I trade for (and to) refine this crude
into
> > streams as light as propane and as heavy as asphalt.  Downstream from me
are
> > the distributors, marketers and consumers who either use the end
products
> > for fuel or further refine and combine these streams for other uses.
Being
> > the middle man for this elaborate and immense infrastructure of energy
is
> > humbling.   To give perspective, in 2000 I was involved in trading over
790
> > million gallons of refined or cracked oil.  What a tremendous amount of
> > energy.
> >
> > My point, in reference to the Tetworld game, is that the "world game"
with
> > regard to energy is already being played.  Armies of analysts develop
> > intricate charts of supply and demand; sources and uses.  Traders find
> > companies (countries) which are long resources and purchase the oil to
sell
> > to companies (countries) which are short.  Resources, raw materials and
> > finished products fund the exchanges for the energy trade.  The market
acts
> > as a clearinghouse for the two sides and generally acts efficiently.  It
is
> > an intricate game with thousands of players.
> >
> > What can we learn from the "market" that allows this game to take place?
> > What mechanism allows this game to play out so effectively?  I believe
that
> > if a game exists in reality it can be modeled.  I have no doubt that a
large
> > component of the Tetworld game as a tool for making the world work for
all
> > people will have to deal with this tremendous mechanism for energy
supply,
> > distribution and use.
> >
> > Rick Marriner
> > Equiva Trading
> > 34° 12' N  / 118° 21' W
> >
> > Do not boast about tomorrow,
> > For you do not know what a day may bring forth.
> > ~ Proverbs 27:1
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw:      FW: from Allegra Snyder
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Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Siegmund" <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 6:31 AM
Subject: FW: from Allegra Snyder


> Hi, Bucky tapes on internet...
>
> Mark
> ----------
> > From: AFSNYDER@aol.com
> > Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:25:31 EST
> > To: aedmondson@hbs.edu, Daronatlas@aol.com, trimtab@sprynet.com,
> > dbuck44@silcon.com, gerald@beautifulcode.nl, glovil@yahoo.com,
> > tetra@photovault.com, siegmund@thegrid.net, tag-design@mediaone.net,
> > MTabbal@mednet.ucla.edu
> > Subject: Fwd: EIK
> >
> > I'm forwarding this on to those who might be interested. Allegra
> >
> > Dear Bucky folks,
> >
> > The first 3 of 12 sessions of Everything I Know, audio and text, is now
on
> > the Internet at
> >
> > http://www.omnifelicity.com/bucky/Default.htm
> >
> > All links to the audio files are maximized for speed of access. You
should
> > hear every file within a second or two of clicking on it.  Note that you
may
> > either click on individual paragraphs, or select continuous play, which
> > brings up a playlist for the entire session and will play the files in
> > succession, unless you skip to a number from the list, or press PageUp
(go
> > back) or PageDn (go to next file).
> >
> > If you have any trouble at all hearing any files right away, please
inform me.
> >
> > The session pages are quite long, and may take a little while to
download
> > completely. If you start playing the audio immediately, it will respond,
but
> > you may find a "Transfer interrupted" partway thru the file. If so, just
> > reload the page and allow it to download fully. If the long pages are a
> > problem, we can split each session into a number of shorter pages.
Please
> > comment on your experience with this.
> >
> > For a short while a variety of fonts will be displayed on the first 84
> > paragraphs. Please muse on these as you listen and let me know which
seem to
> > fit and which do not. You'll notice that the paragraphs are numbered.
> >
> > The theme - background texture, typestyle and colors - can be anything
we
> > want. Suggestions?
> >
> > Russ Chu is getting geared up in Seattle to help process some of the
hours.
> > We spent several hours talking and setting up the programs last night,
thanks
> > to Yahoo voice chat on the Internet.
> >
> > I'd be delighted to hear anything at all from you....and would you
please
> > pass this along to other Bucky folks for whom you may have email
> > addresses...such as Amy E. et al?
> >
> > THANKS!
> >
> > Synergically,
> >
> > Jim Morrissett
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:21:33 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: tensegrity analysis
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
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For a practical application of a rigid or deresonated tensegrity see:
http://www.bfi.org/slideshtml/imag0019a.htm prototype
http://www.bfi.org/slideshtml/imag0020a.htm Bucky

This was RBF's last dome that he was working on.  It was eventually to be
his residence in LA.

A list of refs is at:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-T.htm
(scroll down to "Tensegrity, Rigid")

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 11:00 AM
Subject: tensegrity analysis


> Date:        3/17/01 11:37 AM
> From:        Robert Conroy, Robert_Conroy@compuserve.com
>
> Dick wrote:
> <<Here is a good picture of a tensegrity model. It is easy to see that no
> compression elements touch any other compression elements. If you squeeze
> the structure from opposite sides, the entire structure will contract
> symmetrically. If you pull on opposite sides of the structure, the entire
> structure expands symmetrically. Bob and John- What is the traditional
> structural analysis explanation for this behavior, please?>>
>
>       If the tensegrity model had any practical application in building
> dome homes, then I might have spent some time analysising the structure.
> Its principal use is as an art piece,  probably its original use.  It also
> makes a kind of wizards toy, which can be used to impress.  To use it as a
> magical reason for the strength of geodesic domes is without real basis
> and
> probably can only result in loss of property and possibly life.     Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:37:35 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Thousands stream to a second Eden
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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The Eden Project in SW England with its cluster of geodesic dome greenhouses
is now open:

 http://www.msnbc.com/news/412894.asp

(Several nice color pics)

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Mar 2001 09:21:48 +0000
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From:         =?iso-8859-1?q?behzad=20gholamvand?= <ahora135@YAHOO.CO.UK>
Subject:      s.o.s.
Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
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                         S.O.S.
Dear friend
    This is a universal request.I am a Iranian young
independent short film director. The story which I am
going to direct is about an Afghanian refugee in
Tehran(The capital of Iran)who return to his home to
war against Taleban.
I have could not find any producer because of
the bureaucracy of Iranian governmental cinema.
Now,you charitable man, for the sake of friendship and
humanitarian sentiments and to reverence the human
rights, I begge
you to help me.To making my film I need just 10000$.
The amount of your charity depends on your financial
ability and making this film depends on your charity.
Kindly,if you are a real charitable man, please remit
your charity by a bank draft(money order)
to my bank address,as soon as possible. Please
intruduce me to your friends in all over the world.

                               Sincerelly Yours

 Name: BEHZAD                  Surname:GHOLAMVAND

 Father's name:NEMAT            Birth certificate
No.:951
Date and place of birth: 1973/01/16-MARAGHEH
Name of bank:saderat          Branch code:627

                             TEHRAN -IRAN

p.o.box. 14155-7384



____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Mar 2001 09:54:30 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Friends first tasks with the environment

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            18-MAR-2001  9:54
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 with the proviso of my unquakerisim,
 I've been into climate-change since the mid '80s, but
 I never refer to it as "global" warming, because
 I know the vintage of the phrase and the complete lack
 of any model that it attached to (a glass house).  a great example
 of the ambiguities that really are here, was
 in the current Science News, a letter showing how
 "the right column doesn't know what the left is doing,"
 which is proper and happens enough, re climate-change, in this venue;
 it's also where I found the cites on volcanoe-effluvia!
    now, I'll just record the text of the flyer for the talk at UCLA:

 AS 271 SEMINAR IN ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCES

 The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Recent Wkg. Grp. II
 Report:
 "For" Policymakers or "By" Policymakers?

 Prof. Stephen Schneider *

 Stanford U. (Visiting UVLA Geography Dept. and IOE, Winter '1)

 No abstract is available.

 *This seminar is co-sponsored by the Dept. of Atmos. Scinces and
 the Institute of the Environment.

 Please note the SPECIAL Date, Time, and Location
 ------------------------------------------------
 Thursday, March 8, 2001
 4:00 PM - 5:00 PM
 Atmos. Sciences Seminar Room 7121 MS

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:44:18 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: roofing a dome

Wally,

Do you remember when & where you had dinner with Bucky?  I'm trying to
reconstruct his itinerary; see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/1Biblio.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

"Wally" <wallybru@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3AB3B2EF.C729A2D7@earthlink.net...
>
> (snip)

> Wally
>
> NB: i had dinner once with Bucky in the mid-60's.
(snip)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:31:25 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Alaska irony

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            19-MAR-2001 10:31
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that was a very interesting post, because
 it just points-up several *anomalies* that I'd not been aware of,
 but which could be suggestive.  not only that, but
 it makes a very important note of some continental differences. however,
 the primary proviso is that the effect is anecdotal, because
 of the overwhelmingly regional focus of agriculture (as opposed
 to hunting and other "extrctive industries"),
 which happens to be mostly toward the western coast,
 for a number of obvious reasons -- of agriculture and population --
 and in the brunt of the weather as it flies off of the ocean (that is,
  the moderating cycles of it).

 there is some overlap with the anomaly that had most concerned me,
 for up to 5 years, now: more winter and night heating;
 does the IPCC have any suppositions about this?
    I'm afraid that "retreat of sea ice" has not only been exaggerated,
 in an obfuscatory manner as far as I've seen, but that a)
 it is inherently much-more of a dynamoic equalibrium, and b)
 it doesn't matter in most respects (even albedo-wise,
 considering the simple, spherical geometry .-)

 thus quoth:
  Average warming since the 1950s has been 40F (20C). The largest warming,
  about 70F (40C), has occurred in the interior in winter. The growing
 season
  has lengthened by more than 14 days since the 1950s. Some records suggest
  that much of the recent warming occurred suddenly around 1977.

  ...
  Models project that rapid Arctic warming will continue. For Alaska, the
  Hadley and Canadian models project 1.5-50F (1-30C) more warming by 2030,
 and
  5-120F (3-6.50C) (Hadley) or 7-180F (4-100C) (Canadian) by 2100. The
 warming
  is projected to be strongest in the north and in winter..Projections
  indicate that increased evaporation from warming will more than offset
  increased precipitation, however, making soils drier throughout most of
 the
  state.

  (Warming will be greater at higher latitudes. So will ecological
  disruption.

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:18:18 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: date
Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
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Dick,

Bucky dated Anne Hewlett's younger sister Anglesea ("Anx") Hewlett before he
started to date Anne.  That's the only two women he ever dated--according to
the published literature.  See:

Buckminster Fuller by Potter, pp 39-41
Buckminster Fuller: At Home in the Universe, pp 41-3

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: date


> Joe- I just met a person who says their Mom use to date
> Bucky!?  I don't know anything about Bucky's romantic life,
> is this likely as far as you know? The woman in question
> has alzheimer's, so there is no story there.
>
> Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:12:57 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      BBC News  UK  Picture gallery Eden takes shape
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Nice Eden Project color pics:

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1222000/1222146.stm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:21:36 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
Comments: To: Tetworld Global Advisory Committee <adcomm@listbot.com>
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The best book that I know of that deals with the renewable energy topics
mentioned below is _Energy, Earth & Everyone_; see the Table of Contents:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/AboutBFbookTOC-EnergyEarthAndEveryone
.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Tilley" <Peace.lnk@ispi.net>
To: "Tetworld Global Advisory Committee" <adcomm@listbot.com>
Cc: "Marriner R (Rick)" <RMarriner@equiva.com>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [adcomm] Energy


> Tetworld Global Advisory Committee - http://www.tetworld.org
>
> Rick, thank you.
>
> I'm a lay person about solar energy.  I know that clouds and "night" stop
> the rays of the sun.  But I suppose the sun is shining somewhere on the
> planet at any given moment.  I'm trying to get away from the need for
> batteries or storage.  Is it possible to set up a western hemisphere grid
to
> move the power from the sun around to where it is needed? Also, is it
> possible to move solar energy into hydrogen for transport in large volume
> and then move it back to energy for use.   Just wondering what you thought
> about these two ideas.
>
> Don Tilley, Prairie Peace Park, Lincoln, Nebraska.
>
> Don Tilley, PO Box 95062, Lincoln, NE 68509  402 466 6622
> Peace.Lnk@ispi.net    http://www.igc.apc.org/PeacePark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marriner R (Rick) <RMarriner@equiva.com>
> To: 'Tetworld Global Advisory Committee' <adcomm@listbot.com>
> Cc: Marriner R (Rick) <RMarriner@equiva.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:46 AM
> Subject: [adcomm] Energy
>
> > Tetworld Global Advisory Committee - http://www.tetworld.org
> >
> > On the topic of Global energy Distribution:
> >
> > Solar power does not seem to me a source of power that benefits from
> direct
> > economies of scale.  That is to say that having 10 acres of solar PV
> arrays
> > vs. 1 acre will not make the PV arrays work any better.  Couple this
> > realization with a Nodular Network.  Each node is then, in and of
itself,
> a
> > source of generating power.  Assume no power plants and only this grid
of
> > Solar PV nodes.  (It is awesome to even think of it). Every house and
> > business tied to a grid of power each humming from power generated from
> the sun.
> >
> > In house A we find family A is a net user of their solar PV array.  They
> may
> > find themselves purchasing additional power units from the power grid.
> > However, instead of this excess power being supplied from a fossil fuel
> > burning power plant, household B provides power because they are a net
> > producer of power from their solar PV array. Onward and upward from East
> to
> > West.  Daylight in California powers the early-nighttime needs of
Nevada.
> > The power in the grid would ebb and flow with the sun, weather and
> > population.
> >
> > Please note that we are not talking communal power production of
Marxism.
> > There would have to be a free market for the purchase and sale of power.
> > Family B would have no incentive to provide family A their excess power
> > consumption if they did not receive remuneration.  Furthermore, if
family
> A
> > could not buy extra power from the grid then they would not work harder
or
> > smarter to earn more money, as money would not buy them anything more.
> >
> > One thing that the oil industry has taught me is that money makes the
oil
> > move.  The concept of arbitrage (location, time or quality) is key to
> > creating a market.  The need alone is not demand.  Qualified by liquid
> funds
> > or the means of exchange a buyer can approach a seller and a trade can
> take
> > place.  Without trade you can only give by charity or take by force.
The
> > network of power would collapse under such rules.  No capital would
enter
> > the market and research and development would cease.
> >
> > Rick Marriner
> > Equiva Trading
> > 34° 12' N  / 118° 21' W
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Mar 2001 05:47:54 -0800
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
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Don, Let's say for purposes of solar photovoltaics that "energy" storage
(e.g., batteries)  is not used--then at any given time, about half the eart=
h
is in sunlight and the other half is in darkness.  The lighted half of the
earth is producing electricity and that electricity can be sent wherever th=
e
demand is.

There are at least 2 other types of solar electricity systems--

1.  Acres of long parabolic mirrors are laid out in arrays that optimize
collection of sunlight during the day.  Running through the length of each
mirror is a tube filled with liquid--all of the tubes are connected
together.  The gathered sunlight is focused on the tubes--heating the liqui=
d
within to "steam"--the "steam" is then used to drive the turbines which
produce electricity.

2.  Acres of parabolic mirrors are laid out in an array--the focal points o=
f
those mirrors all meet at the same spot--say a spot in the air 100' feet
above the ground.  At that point the collective heat generated from the man=
y
mirrors focusing on one spot is captured in a tower which contains a heat
collecting "radiator"--the liquid in the "radiator" is heating to boiling
and the "steam" drives the electricity producing turbine.

Then there are energy systems that derive their energy indirectly from the
sun:

1.  biomass, e.g., sugar cane (which can be converted to ethanol).
Impounding sunlight (photo-synthesis) provides the energy necessary for the
crop to be grown.

2.  dung powered generation--cattle dung is used as the fuel to fire steam
generators--there is a plant of this type about 100 miles from my home.
Cattle feed on biomass.

3.  wood fired generation--wood is biomass.

4.  coal fired generation--coal is produced from vegetable biomass

5. oil fired generation--oil is produced from animal fats/oils, and those
animals were fed by biomass.

6.  wind generation--earth winds are created by heating and cooling of the
earth--therefore, solar driven.

7.  there are various methods to produce hydrogen (H)--one of the most
straightforward is to introduce electricity into water (H20)--which then
breaks water into its constitute parts, ie. hydrogen and oxygen

=20

Finally, the global energy grid concept allows for electricity generated
anywhere on earth to be moved (transmitted) to wherever the demand is.  Tak=
e
a look at geni at http://www.geni.org  There is generally excess production
capacity in areas that are in darkness (night), which can be sent
(transmitted) to areas which are in peak demand modes.  So the global energ=
y
grid concept is a "multiplyer" of energy capacity--irrespective of the form=
s
of generation, eg. coal, oil, solar, nuclear, wind, hydro  The concept does
"more with less".

In "stand alone" solar photovoltaic systems (e.g., off-the-grid home or
community use)--the number of solar panels required (say each one producing
at least 100 watts) is calculated based on a 24hr energy consumption cycle
(both night and day).  Daylight power production must exceed daylight
consumption rates and the excess is stored (in batteries) for nightime
consumption.  If you have fairly good prevailing winds some good portion of
the day of say at least 7 mph--you may care to introduce a small wind power
generator tied into the photovoltaic system.  Winds can blow day and night.
To avoid "wasting" power, storage batteries are used.  The power from the
batteries, say 6 or 12 or 24 volt direct current (DC) is processed through
what is called a power inverter, which converts the DC power to 110-120-
volt AC power--the standard rating for most household
applications/appliances in the US.  Photovoltaic panels have no moving
parts, and after a period of minor generation capacity decline (about 5%)
after a few years, they stabilize and should work forever.  Storage
batteries may need replacing say every 5 or so years.

Hope this helps...

mark


> From: Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:21:36 -0800
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: [adcomm] Energy
>=20
> The best book that I know of that deals with the renewable energy topics
> mentioned below is _Energy, Earth & Everyone_; see the Table of Contents:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/AboutBFbookTOC-EnergyEarthAndEvery=
one
> .htm
>=20
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Tilley" <Peace.lnk@ispi.net>
> To: "Tetworld Global Advisory Committee" <adcomm@listbot.com>
> Cc: "Marriner R (Rick)" <RMarriner@equiva.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [adcomm] Energy
>=20
>=20
>> Tetworld Global Advisory Committee - http://www.tetworld.org
>>=20
>> Rick, thank you.
>>=20
>> I'm a lay person about solar energy.  I know that clouds and "night" sto=
p
>> the rays of the sun.  But I suppose the sun is shining somewhere on the
>> planet at any given moment.  I'm trying to get away from the need for
>> batteries or storage.  Is it possible to set up a western hemisphere gri=
d
> to
>> move the power from the sun around to where it is needed? Also, is it
>> possible to move solar energy into hydrogen for transport in large volum=
e
>> and then move it back to energy for use.   Just wondering what you thoug=
ht
>> about these two ideas.
>>=20
>> Don Tilley, Prairie Peace Park, Lincoln, Nebraska.
>>=20
>> Don Tilley, PO Box 95062, Lincoln, NE 68509  402 466 6622
>> Peace.Lnk@ispi.net    http://www.igc.apc.org/PeacePark
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marriner R (Rick) <RMarriner@equiva.com>
>> To: 'Tetworld Global Advisory Committee' <adcomm@listbot.com>
>> Cc: Marriner R (Rick) <RMarriner@equiva.com>
>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:46 AM
>> Subject: [adcomm] Energy
>>=20
>>> Tetworld Global Advisory Committee - http://www.tetworld.org
>>>=20
>>> On the topic of Global energy Distribution:
>>>=20
>>> Solar power does not seem to me a source of power that benefits from
>> direct
>>> economies of scale.  That is to say that having 10 acres of solar PV
>> arrays
>>> vs. 1 acre will not make the PV arrays work any better.  Couple this
>>> realization with a Nodular Network.  Each node is then, in and of
> itself,
>> a
>>> source of generating power.  Assume no power plants and only this grid
> of
>>> Solar PV nodes.  (It is awesome to even think of it). Every house and
>>> business tied to a grid of power each humming from power generated from
>> the sun.
>>>=20
>>> In house A we find family A is a net user of their solar PV array.  The=
y
>> may
>>> find themselves purchasing additional power units from the power grid.
>>> However, instead of this excess power being supplied from a fossil fuel
>>> burning power plant, household B provides power because they are a net
>>> producer of power from their solar PV array. Onward and upward from Eas=
t
>> to
>>> West.  Daylight in California powers the early-nighttime needs of
> Nevada.
>>> The power in the grid would ebb and flow with the sun, weather and
>>> population.
>>>=20
>>> Please note that we are not talking communal power production of
> Marxism.
>>> There would have to be a free market for the purchase and sale of power=
.
>>> Family B would have no incentive to provide family A their excess power
>>> consumption if they did not receive remuneration.  Furthermore, if
> family
>> A
>>> could not buy extra power from the grid then they would not work harder
> or
>>> smarter to earn more money, as money would not buy them anything more.
>>>=20
>>> One thing that the oil industry has taught me is that money makes the
> oil
>>> move.  The concept of arbitrage (location, time or quality) is key to
>>> creating a market.  The need alone is not demand.  Qualified by liquid
>> funds
>>> or the means of exchange a buyer can approach a seller and a trade can
>> take
>>> place.  Without trade you can only give by charity or take by force.
> The
>>> network of power would collapse under such rules.  No capital would
> enter
>>> the market and research and development would cease.
>>>=20
>>> Rick Marriner
>>> Equiva Trading
>>> 34=B0 12' N  / 118=B0 21' W
>=20
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:25:26 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            20-MAR-2001  6:25
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 already there are regional problems with large-scale transport
 of electricity, coupling with the spikes of Sun and Earth magnetospheres;
 what sort of "great-circle railroad tracks" could be a problem
 with a world-around grid?
    could this be circumvented by superconduction?

 thus quoth:
  is in sunlight and the other half is in darkness.  The lighted half of
 the
  earth is producing electricity and that electricity can be sent wherever
 the

 --Pepe le Screw You!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:57:22 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
In-Reply-To:  <B6DC9F50.318E%siegmund@thegrid.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Assessment of renewable energy technologies
http://www.dieoff.org/page84.htm

In this article, we analyze the potential of various
renewable or solar energy technologies to supply the United
States with its future energy needs. Diverse renewable
technologies are assessed in terms of their land
requirements, environmental benefits and risks, economic
costs, and a comparison of their advantages. In addition,
we make a projection of the amount of energy that could be
supplied by solar energy subject to the constraints of
maintaining the food and forest production required by
society. Although renewable energy technologies often cause
fewer environmental problems than fossil energy systems,
they require large amounts of land and therefore compete
with agriculture, forestry, and other essential land-use
systems in the United States.

An immediate priority IS to speed the transition from
reliance on nonrenewable energy sources to reliance on
renewable, especially solar based, energy technologies.
Various combinations of solar technologies should be
developed consistent with the characteristics of different
geographic regions, taking into account the land and water
available and regional energy needs.

If the United States does not commit itself to the
transition from fossil to renewable energy during the next
decade or two, the economy and national security will be
adversely affected.

(Originally published in BioScience -- September 1994)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:13:45 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Domes where do i start?
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>

Mark,

Check out my web pages on domes.  There's probably more info there than you
ever really wanted:

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

"sideshow" <side.show@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:tbg3051rf38a88@corp.supernews.co.uk...
> Hi all,
> I've resently discoverd (for myself) Domes, they look fantastic!
> I really want too build one too live in and have only just started to
learn
> what it takes to complete. But still can anyone recomend Web Sites, Books,
> and people to chat too about starting from square one?
> I live in England where the planning permission is pretty harsh, and land
is
> expensive, but that i will over come.
> Oh yeah, have a look at www.edenproject.com, i'll be going next week
> (27-03-01) so if you want any info not on their site, i'll make a list.
> Thanks
> Mark (yiorda@lycos.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:51:46 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: domes
Comments: To: The Millers <triorbtl@sover.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Steve,

About 1000 Bucky-related pics are located on my ISP's hard drive at
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/

I'm thinking about putting a link on one of my web pages, but haven't
decided which yet.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Millers" <triorbtl@sover.net>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 6:25 AM
Subject: domes


>     How can I access the images fom your index?
>                                 Steve
>
> Formactive--
> http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:23:07 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOOEBNENAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dex-while wind mills are not maybe that pretty, they do not
take much land surface area, right? Farmers can work around
them fairly easily, i think, as in the new wind farm of SW
Minnesota. Also, can't we use our roof tops for photo
voltaics? That must be a very large non-land surface area?
That is , when the price and technology get here.


Diverse renewable
> technologies are assessed in terms of their land
> requirements, environmental benefits and risks, economic
> costs, and a comparison of their advantages. In addition,
> we make a projection of the amount of energy that could
> be
> supplied by solar energy subject to the constraints of
> maintaining the food and forest production required by
> society. Although renewable energy technologies often
> cause fewer environmental problems than fossil energy
systems,
> they require large amounts of land and therefore compete
> with agriculture, forestry, and other essential land-use
> systems in the United States.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:36:52 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Dex-while wind mills are not maybe that pretty, they do not
> take much land surface area, right? Farmers can work around
> them fairly easily, i think, as in the new wind farm of SW
> Minnesota.

*Good info Dex!

>Also, can't we use our roof tops for photo voltaics

The south side at least, esp if the roof has descent tilt.  SF, Ca used to have solar heated water tanks on the roofs, until the quake and cheaper energy arrived during rebuilding.  I am still looking for the shingle solar PVs I saw on TV... They didn't apperar to be prototypes...
BillSF9c
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:54:25 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      procession fun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

An simple way to demonstrate and explore procession for
kids and big people is:

Tape light weight string to golf ball( they are small and
dense). Repeat with second ball. Connect 3 or 4 or 5 foot
strings from balls to a short(6" or 12") string connected
to the ceiling or other overhead support. A fisherman's
swivel will keep the strings from twisting around each
other. The balls orbit around a common center of gravity,
trading energy processionally. Use different colored balls
to track them easily. Use different length string to have
the balls have different periods. Danger, this is an
addictive practice/activity. You can send the balls off
with the same or different revolutions. You can shorten or
lengthen the top string for different behaviors. I imagine
any number of balls will work, though the interactions get
complicated quickly.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:29:04 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: more info
Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dick,

It's from George Hart's web site; see:
http://www.georgehart.com/paperbll.html

Sorry about that; I'm gradually adding attributions.

BTW, I decided to add a link to my pics folder on my home page and in the
index under pictures.

(Have to do a little research on your other query)

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 7:54 AM
Subject: more info


> Joe- Do you know anything about this model?
>
> Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:10:38 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
In-Reply-To:  <7A89D928.5472CFF2.0000F1CA@netscape.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Could solar photovoltaics (or even windmills) be produced without
oil, gas, and coal? Producing semi-conductors (and smelting steel)
require high energy inputs and produce heavy-metal toxic residues.

Will the post industrial eco-village be able to produce such high
tech devices?

Without cheap oil to enable global mass production will anybody
be able to afford these things?

And what about computers, satellites, and communication networks?

Dex
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:15:49 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: procession fun

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            21-MAR-2001  6:15
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that's prEcession.  if I get the gist o'your balls,
 that sounds like a nice demo.

 thus quoth:
  Tape light weight string to golf ball( they are small and
  dense). Repeat with second ball. Connect 3 or 4 or 5 foot
  strings from balls to a short(6" or 12") string connected
  to the ceiling or other overhead support. A fisherman's
  swivel will keep the strings from twisting around each
  other. The balls orbit around a common center of gravity,

 --"Just say, No Nuke-yellar Power, please."  Enron internal memo
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:39:35 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Ralph Nader's Enron Liberation Front!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            21-MAR-2001  6:39
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 in the underground world of ELF, we just call him, RalfN.
    the accolades for his achievements assure him
 to be a permanent constellation in the firmament of globalisation,
 with a perpetual website hosted by the one-world CEO-ship,
 with only slightly lesser bandwidth & memory than "JR" Bush and
 "JR" Gore, with special bonuses for his performance
 during the close-out of the 2nd millennium as the head cheerleader
 of the "electoral college debate duopoly," and his early decision,
 never to run in a Democratic Primary to avail himself
 of his huge, legal, monetary support by the university systems of the US,
 "since '84, '88, '92, '96"  (quoted from NYT in LA Daily News,
 about 2 weeks pre-election).

 let us now count the ways in which our beloved RalfN has helped
 to bury the republic, and cleared the way for a ne'er-ending series
 of virtual Nuremberg rallies, as premiered in Ellay and Philly!

 --Qoobate Cell, Greater Los Angeles / River Watershed
 http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm

 PS: special kudos to our comrades in the FU cells, and
 to Jeb, in tactical maneuvers to keep the Voting Rights Act
 from ever becoming an issue in Florida;
 how'd you "good ol'Boies" do that ?!?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:51:36 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it !-)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            21-MAR-2001  6:51
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 OK, folks.  I've been handing htis out to the local boards,
 for some time, now, and it's time to get it out.
    if anyone cannot read a "Word" file, then
 I'll be happy to put it into a stragith textfile.

 http://www.xdrive.com/share/985210808061gTPi9SnLjrzdPSPfBSWw

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:58:50 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it?)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            21-MAR-2001  6:58
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops, that was a bum link; this one works.

 http://www.xdrive.com/share/985211414186aSVOZ1VMQTr8FIRqQgBL

 --The Enron Liberation Front!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:32:27 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Oh and solar cells can be manufactured using solar energy. George dubya and
his band of cronies probably don't include that in their "Bush energy
physics".


All I gots was-sa blank page Brian. The page source code indicates a frame?



----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hutchings" <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 7:58 AM
Subject: la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it?)


> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            21-MAR-2001  6:58
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  oops, that was a bum link; this one works.
>
>  http://www.xdrive.com/share/985211414186aSVOZ1VMQTr8FIRqQgBL
>
>  --The Enron Liberation Front!
>  http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:07:05 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOGECAENAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET> wrote:
> Could solar photovoltaics (or even windmills) be produced
> without
> oil, gas, and coal?

I do not see why not. Of course, we have to make the move
to our solar income on our fossil batteries. And soon.

Producing semi-conductors (and
> smelting steel)
> require high energy inputs and produce heavy-metal toxic
> residues.

High energy supply can come from the sun in time. Some
poison will continue to be produced while we make the rest
of the transition to solar.

>
> Will the post industrial eco-village be able to produce
> such high
> tech devices?

I guess I do not see a future void of industry. I see a
sustainable, non-poisoning, industrial, technological
mind-manifested time and place, in my life.

> Without cheap oil to enable global mass production will
> anybody
> be able to afford these things?

Yes, solar is off the meter, so not hordable like fossil.
Prices will on average continue to lower as we keep
learning to get more performance with lower and lower
energy investment.
>
> And what about computers, satellites, and communication
> networks?

I do not think these tools are going anywhere. General
Plenty is on the way(barring nuclear war or unknown
catastrophe )
>
> Dex


Utopia,
Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:08:39 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: procession fun
In-Reply-To:  <200103211415.f2LEFnG18649@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

PRE from now on.

--- Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings
> 21-MAR-2001  6:15
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  that's prEcession.  if I get the gist o'your balls,
>  that sounds like a nice demo.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:46:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Dead birdies
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The anti enviro guys claim wind mills will kill all the birdies. I =
suggest introducing the gray wolf to any area that has a problem with =
birdies heaped up at the foot of the towers.=20

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The anti enviro guys claim wind mills =
will kill all=20
the birdies. I suggest introducing the gray wolf to any area that has=20
a&nbsp;problem with birdies heaped up at the foot of the towers.=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0B22E.D37E8DA0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:19:46 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: My Dad and Mom saw B. Fuller speak.
Comments: To: Darin Miller <darinmiller@hotmail.com>
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Darin,

Do you know when & where your parents heard Bucky speak?  I'm trying to =
reconstruct his itinerary.  See:

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/ByBFitinerary-1976.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Darin Miller=20
  To: joemoore@cruzio.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:45 AM
  Subject: My Dad and Mom saw B. Fuller speak.


  Joe, I will have to explore your site a little more.  I am a fan of =
Buckminster Fuller.  I found out one time that my Dad and Mom saw him =
speak where my Dad works back in Jan. of '76 is that cool or what?  - =
Darin.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2>Darin,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Do you know when =
&amp; where=20
your parents heard Bucky speak?&nbsp; I'm trying to reconstruct his=20
itinerary.&nbsp; See:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/ByBFitinerary-1976.htm">ht=
tp://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/ByBFitinerary-1976.htm</A></FONT></S=
TRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Ddarinmiller@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:darinmiller@hotmail.com">Darin=20
  Miller</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2001 =
10:45=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> My Dad and Mom saw B. =
Fuller=20
  speak.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joe, I will have to explore your site =
a little=20
  more.&nbsp;&nbsp;I am a fan of Buckminster Fuller.&nbsp; I found out =
one time=20
  that&nbsp;my</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Dad and Mom saw him =
speak where my=20
  Dad works back in Jan. of '76 is that cool or what?&nbsp; -=20
Darin.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B23B.E45898C0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:35:29 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dead birdies
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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How about dome-covered windmills?

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: marksomers=20
  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:46 PM
  Subject: Dead birdies


  The anti enviro guys claim wind mills will kill all the birdies. I =
suggest introducing the gray wolf to any area that has a problem with =
birdies heaped up at the foot of the towers.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C0B23E.161A1B20
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>How about =
dome-covered=20
windmills?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm">=
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm</A></FONT=
></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmarksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM=20
  href=3D"mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM">marksomers</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B> =
bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU">GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU=
.BUFFALO.EDU</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2001 =
4:46=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Dead birdies</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The anti enviro guys claim wind mills =
will kill=20
  all the birdies. I suggest introducing the gray wolf to any area that =
has=20
  a&nbsp;problem with birdies heaped up at the foot of the towers.=20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C0B23E.161A1B20--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:51:48 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dead birdies
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Joe that is an interesting design. Present wind turbine towers wind =
operational ranges are 7 to 65 miles per hour winds. I bet the dome =
would allow a higher end wind speed range. It also would allow higher =
from the ground operational range too. =20


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Joe S Moore=20
  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:35 PM
  Subject: Re: Dead birdies


  How about dome-covered windmills?
  =20
  http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm

  Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
  Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: marksomers=20
    Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
    To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
    Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:46 PM
    Subject: Dead birdies


    The anti enviro guys claim wind mills will kill all the birdies. I =
suggest introducing the gray wolf to any area that has a problem with =
birdies heaped up at the foot of the towers.=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joe that is an interesting design. =
Present wind=20
turbine towers wind operational ranges are 7 to 65 miles per hour winds. =
I bet=20
the dome would allow a higher end wind speed range. It also would allow =
higher=20
from the ground operational range too.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@CRUZIO.COM" title=3Djoemoore@CRUZIO.COM>Joe =
S Moore</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B> =
bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU"=20
  =
title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO=
.EDU</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2001 =
8:35=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Dead birdies</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>How about =
dome-covered=20
  windmills?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm">=
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm</A></FONT=
></STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r=20
  Fuller Virtual Institute: <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A href=3D"mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM"=20
    title=3Dmarksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>marksomers</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B> =
bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU"=20
    =
title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO=
.EDU</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, =
2001 4:46=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Dead birdies</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The anti enviro guys claim wind =
mills will kill=20
    all the birdies. I suggest introducing the gray wolf to any area =
that has=20
    a&nbsp;problem with birdies heaped up at the foot of the towers.=20
    </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0B251.216F20C0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:02:14 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dead birdies
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Mark,

To the best of my knowledge, a prototype of this winddome has never been =
built & tested.  A graphic didn't even exist.  I had to draw one using =
my limited skills.  I worked from a verbal (not written) description by =
Bucky.  (From his "Everything I Know" tapes.)  I see no reason why it =
wouldn't work--of course I'm not an engineer.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: marksomers=20
  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:51 PM
  Subject: Re: Dead birdies


  Joe that is an interesting design. Present wind turbine towers wind =
operational ranges are 7 to 65 miles per hour winds. I bet the dome =
would allow a higher end wind speed range. It also would allow higher =
from the ground operational range too.=20
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Joe S Moore=20
    Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
    To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
    Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:35 PM
    Subject: Re: Dead birdies


    How about dome-covered windmills?

    http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm

    Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
    Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: =
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: marksomers=20
      Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
      To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:46 PM
      Subject: Dead birdies


      The anti enviro guys claim wind mills will kill all the birdies. I =
suggest introducing the gray wolf to any area that has a problem with =
birdies heaped up at the foot of the towers.=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2>Mark,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>To the best of my =
knowledge, a=20
prototype of this winddome has never been built &amp; tested.&nbsp; A =
graphic=20
didn't even exist.&nbsp; I had to draw one using my limited =
skills.&nbsp; I=20
worked from a verbal (not written) description by Bucky. &nbsp;(From his =

"Everything I Know" tapes.)&nbsp; I see no reason why it wouldn't =
work--of=20
course I'm not an engineer.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmarksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM=20
  href=3D"mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM">marksomers</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B> =
bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU">GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU=
.BUFFALO.EDU</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2001 =
8:51=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Dead birdies</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joe that is an interesting design. =
Present wind=20
  turbine towers wind operational ranges are 7 to 65 miles per hour =
winds. I bet=20
  the dome would allow a higher end wind speed range. It also would =
allow higher=20
  from the ground operational range too. </FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Djoemoore@CRUZIO.COM =
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@CRUZIO.COM">Joe S=20
    Moore</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B> =
bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU">GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU=
.BUFFALO.EDU</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, =
2001 8:35=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Dead =
birdies</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>How about =
dome-covered=20
    windmills?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm">=
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyWindmillDome.htm</A></FONT=
></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r=20
    Fuller Virtual Institute: <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3Dmarksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM=20
      href=3D"mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM">marksomers</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B>=20
      bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU">GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU=
.BUFFALO.EDU</A>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, =
2001 4:46=20
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Dead birdies</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The anti enviro guys claim wind =
mills will=20
      kill all the birdies. I suggest introducing the gray wolf to any =
area that=20
      has a&nbsp;problem with birdies heaped up at the foot of the =
towers.=20
      </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C0B24A.3456C640--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:54:58 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
In-Reply-To:  <20010322000705.21950.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> ... we have to make the move to our solar income on our
> fossil batteries. And soon.
>
> ... High energy supply can come from the sun in time. Some
> poison will continue to be produced while we make the rest
> of the transition to solar.
>
> ... I do not see a future void of industry. I see a
> sustainable, non-poisoning, industrial, technological
> mind-manifested time and place, in my life.
>
> ...Prices will on average continue to lower as we keep
> learning to get more performance with lower and lower
> energy investment.
>
> ... General Plenty is on the way (barring nuclear war or
> unknown catastrophe )
>
> ... Utopia


My feeling is that it would be a miracle if we managed to
pull ourselves out of this global mess we've made (and I
don't believe in miracles.) If people were inclined to do
the right thing wouldn't we have done so a long time ago?

Dexter
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:15:03 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: pic info
Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dick,

It took a while but I found the source of that picture.  See:
http://www.radome.net/rad_cap.html

It's from the Antennas for Communications (AFC) web site.  They manufacture
radomes.  They're located in Ocala, FL.  Ron Posner is one of the major
owners.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 7:50 AM
Subject: pic info


> Joe- Do you have any info on this drawing from your picture
> site?
>
> Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 02:04:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey ace!!

If people were inclined to do the right thing George dubya Bush wouldn't be
in the White House.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [adcomm] Energy


> > ... we have to make the move to our solar income on our
> > fossil batteries. And soon.
> >
> > ... High energy supply can come from the sun in time. Some
> > poison will continue to be produced while we make the rest
> > of the transition to solar.
> >
> > ... I do not see a future void of industry. I see a
> > sustainable, non-poisoning, industrial, technological
> > mind-manifested time and place, in my life.
> >
> > ...Prices will on average continue to lower as we keep
> > learning to get more performance with lower and lower
> > energy investment.
> >
> > ... General Plenty is on the way (barring nuclear war or
> > unknown catastrophe )
> >
> > ... Utopia
>
>
> My feeling is that it would be a miracle if we managed to
> pull ourselves out of this global mess we've made (and I
> don't believe in miracles.) If people were inclined to do
> the right thing wouldn't we have done so a long time ago?
>
> Dexter
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 02:08:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ohhhhhhhhhhh noooo wait!!!

Then Al Gore would be in the Oval office.

We're damned if we do and pretty well damned if we don't.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [adcomm] Energy


> > ... we have to make the move to our solar income on our
> > fossil batteries. And soon.
> >
> > ... High energy supply can come from the sun in time. Some
> > poison will continue to be produced while we make the rest
> > of the transition to solar.
> >
> > ... I do not see a future void of industry. I see a
> > sustainable, non-poisoning, industrial, technological
> > mind-manifested time and place, in my life.
> >
> > ...Prices will on average continue to lower as we keep
> > learning to get more performance with lower and lower
> > energy investment.
> >
> > ... General Plenty is on the way (barring nuclear war or
> > unknown catastrophe )
> >
> > ... Utopia
>
>
> My feeling is that it would be a miracle if we managed to
> pull ourselves out of this global mess we've made (and I
> don't believe in miracles.) If people were inclined to do
> the right thing wouldn't we have done so a long time ago?
>
> Dexter
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:54:16 EST
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         laser16@E247.COM
Subject:      toner supplies
Comments: To: hungryjack@republic.com

PLEASE FORWARD TO THE PERSON
RESPONSIBLE FOR PURCHASING
YOUR LASER PRINTER SUPPLIES


**** VORTEX  SUPPLIES ****

-SPECIALS OF THE DAY ON LASER TONER SUPPLIES AT DISCOUNT PRICES--

LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGES
COPIER AND FAX CARTRIDGES

WE ARE -->THE<-- PLACE TO BUY YOUR TONER CARTRIDGES BECAUSE YOU
SAVE UP TO 30% FROM OFFICE DEPOT'S, QUILL'S OR OFFICE MAX'S EVERY DAY
LOW PRICES

ORDER BY PHONE:1-888-288-9043
ORDER BY FAX: 1-888-977-1577
CUSTOMER SERVICE: 1-888-248-2015
E-MAIL REMOVAL LINE: 1-888-248-4930

UNIVERSITY AND/OR SCHOOL PURCHASE ORDERS WELCOME. (NO CREDIT APPROVAL REQUIRED)
ALL OTHER PURCHASE ORDER REQUESTS REQUIRE CREDIT APPROVAL.

PAY BY CHECK (C.O.D), CREDIT CARD OR PURCHASE ORDER (NET 30 DAYS).


IF YOUR ORDER IS BY CREDIT CARD PLEASE LEAVE YOUR CREDIT CARD # PLUS EXPIRATION DATE.
IF YOUR ORDER IS BY PURCHASE ORDER LEAVE YOUR SHIPPING/BILLING ADDRESSES AND YOUR P.O. NUMBER
NO SHIPPING CHARGES FOR ORDERS $49 OR OVER
ADD $4.75 FOR ORDERS UNDER $49.
C.O.D. ORDERS ADD $4.5 TO SHIPPING CHARGES.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO REQUIRE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR COMPANY
INCUDING FEDERAL TAX ID NUMBER, CLOSEST SHIPPING OR CORPORATE ADDRESS IN THE
CONTINENTAL U.S.  OR  FOR CATALOG  REQUESTS PLEASE CALL OUR CUSTOMER
SERVICE LINE  1-888-248-2015

OUR NEW , LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGE, PRICES ARE  AS FOLLOWS:

(PLEASE ORDER BY PAGE NUMBER AND/OR ITEM NUMBER)

HEWLETT PACKARD: (ON PAGE 2)

ITEM #1  LASERJET SERIES  4L,4P (74A)------------------------$44
ITEM #2  LASERJET SERIES  1100 (92A)-------------------------$44
ITEM #3  LASERJET SERIES  2 (95A)-------------------------------$39
ITEM #4  LASERJET SERIES  2P (75A)-----------------------------$54
ITEM #5  LASERJET SERIES  5P,6P,5MP, 6MP (3903A)--$44
ITEM #6  LASERJET SERIES  5SI, 5000 (29A)------------------$95
ITEM #7  LASERJET SERIES  2100 (96A)-------------------------$74
ITEM #8  LASERJET SERIES  8100 (82X)-----------------------$145
ITEM #9  LASERJET SERIES  5L/6L (3906A0------------------$35
ITEM #10 LASERJET SERIES  4V-------------------------------------$95
ITEM #11 LASERJET SERIES 4000 (27X)-------------------------$72
ITEM #12 LASERJET SERIES 3SI/4SI (91A)--------------------$54
ITEM #13 LASERJET SERIES 4, 4M, 5,5M-----------------------$49

HEWLETT PACKARD FAX (ON PAGE 2)

ITEM #14 LASERFAX 500, 700 (FX1)----------$49
ITEM #15  LASERFAX 5000,7000 (FX2)------$54
ITEM #16  LASERFAX (FX3)------------------------$59
ITEM #17  LASERFAX (FX4)------------------------$54

LEXMARK/IBM (ON PAGE 3)

OPTRA 4019, 4029 HIGH YIELD---------------$89
OPTRA R, 4039, 4049 HIGH YIELD---------$105
OPTRA E----------------------------------------------------$59
OPTRA N--------------------------------------------------$115
OPTRA S--------------------------------------------------$165
-
EPSON (ON PAGE 4)

ACTION LASER 7000,7500,8000,9000-------$105
ACTION LASER 1000,1500-------------------------$105

CANON PRINTERS (ON PAGE 5)

 PLEASE CALL FOR MODELS AND UPDATED PRICES
 FOR CANON PRINTER CARTRIDGES

PANASONIC (0N PAGE 7)

NEC SERIES 2 MODELS 90 AND 95----------$105

APPLE (0N PAGE 8)

LASER WRITER PRO 600 or 16/600------------$49
LASER WRITER SELECT 300,320,360---------$74
LASER WRITER 300 AND 320----------------------$54
LASER WRITER NT, 2NT------------------------------$54
LASER WRITER 12/640--------------------------------$79



CANON FAX (ON PAGE 9)

LASERCLASS 4000 (FX3)---------------------------$59
LASERCLASS 5000,6000,7000 (FX2)---------$54
LASERFAX 5000,7000 (FX2)----------------------$54
LASERFAX 8500,9000 (FX4)----------------------$54


CANON COPIERS (PAGE 10)

PC 3, 6RE, 7 AND 11 (A30)---------------------$69
PC 300,320,700,720 and 760 (E-40)--------$89

IF YOUR CARTRIDGE IS NOT LISTED CALL CUSTOMER SERVICE AT 1-888-248-2015

90 DAY UNLIMITED WARRANTY INCLUDED ON ALL PRODUCTS.

ALL TRADEMARKS AND BRAND NAMES LISTED ABOVE ARE PROPERTY OF THE
RESPECTIVE HOLDERS AND USED FOR DESCRIPTIVE PURPOSES ONLY.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:33:07 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: toner supplies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes Please send me a dozen of each and just charge it to Kirby. : )



----- Original Message -----
From: <laser16@E247.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:54 AM
Subject: toner supplies


> PLEASE FORWARD TO THE PERSON
> RESPONSIBLE FOR PURCHASING
> YOUR LASER PRINTER SUPPLIES
>
>
> **** VORTEX  SUPPLIES ****
>
> -SPECIALS OF THE DAY ON LASER TONER SUPPLIES AT DISCOUNT PRICES--
>
> LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGES
> COPIER AND FAX CARTRIDGES
>
> WE ARE -->THE<-- PLACE TO BUY YOUR TONER CARTRIDGES BECAUSE YOU
> SAVE UP TO 30% FROM OFFICE DEPOT'S, QUILL'S OR OFFICE MAX'S EVERY DAY
> LOW PRICES
>
> ORDER BY PHONE:1-888-288-9043
> ORDER BY FAX: 1-888-977-1577
> CUSTOMER SERVICE: 1-888-248-2015
> E-MAIL REMOVAL LINE: 1-888-248-4930
>
> UNIVERSITY AND/OR SCHOOL PURCHASE ORDERS WELCOME. (NO CREDIT APPROVAL
REQUIRED)
> ALL OTHER PURCHASE ORDER REQUESTS REQUIRE CREDIT APPROVAL.
>
> PAY BY CHECK (C.O.D), CREDIT CARD OR PURCHASE ORDER (NET 30 DAYS).
>
>
> IF YOUR ORDER IS BY CREDIT CARD PLEASE LEAVE YOUR CREDIT CARD # PLUS
EXPIRATION DATE.
> IF YOUR ORDER IS BY PURCHASE ORDER LEAVE YOUR SHIPPING/BILLING ADDRESSES
AND YOUR P.O. NUMBER
> NO SHIPPING CHARGES FOR ORDERS $49 OR OVER
> ADD $4.75 FOR ORDERS UNDER $49.
> C.O.D. ORDERS ADD $4.5 TO SHIPPING CHARGES.
>
> FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO REQUIRE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR COMPANY
> INCUDING FEDERAL TAX ID NUMBER, CLOSEST SHIPPING OR CORPORATE ADDRESS IN
THE
> CONTINENTAL U.S.  OR  FOR CATALOG  REQUESTS PLEASE CALL OUR CUSTOMER
> SERVICE LINE  1-888-248-2015
>
> OUR NEW , LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGE, PRICES ARE  AS FOLLOWS:
>
> (PLEASE ORDER BY PAGE NUMBER AND/OR ITEM NUMBER)
>
> HEWLETT PACKARD: (ON PAGE 2)
>
> ITEM #1  LASERJET SERIES  4L,4P (74A)------------------------$44
> ITEM #2  LASERJET SERIES  1100 (92A)-------------------------$44
> ITEM #3  LASERJET SERIES  2 (95A)-------------------------------$39
> ITEM #4  LASERJET SERIES  2P (75A)-----------------------------$54
> ITEM #5  LASERJET SERIES  5P,6P,5MP, 6MP (3903A)--$44
> ITEM #6  LASERJET SERIES  5SI, 5000 (29A)------------------$95
> ITEM #7  LASERJET SERIES  2100 (96A)-------------------------$74
> ITEM #8  LASERJET SERIES  8100 (82X)-----------------------$145
> ITEM #9  LASERJET SERIES  5L/6L (3906A0------------------$35
> ITEM #10 LASERJET SERIES  4V-------------------------------------$95
> ITEM #11 LASERJET SERIES 4000 (27X)-------------------------$72
> ITEM #12 LASERJET SERIES 3SI/4SI (91A)--------------------$54
> ITEM #13 LASERJET SERIES 4, 4M, 5,5M-----------------------$49
>
> HEWLETT PACKARD FAX (ON PAGE 2)
>
> ITEM #14 LASERFAX 500, 700 (FX1)----------$49
> ITEM #15  LASERFAX 5000,7000 (FX2)------$54
> ITEM #16  LASERFAX (FX3)------------------------$59
> ITEM #17  LASERFAX (FX4)------------------------$54
>
> LEXMARK/IBM (ON PAGE 3)
>
> OPTRA 4019, 4029 HIGH YIELD---------------$89
> OPTRA R, 4039, 4049 HIGH YIELD---------$105
> OPTRA E----------------------------------------------------$59
> OPTRA N--------------------------------------------------$115
> OPTRA S--------------------------------------------------$165
> -
> EPSON (ON PAGE 4)
>
> ACTION LASER 7000,7500,8000,9000-------$105
> ACTION LASER 1000,1500-------------------------$105
>
> CANON PRINTERS (ON PAGE 5)
>
>  PLEASE CALL FOR MODELS AND UPDATED PRICES
>  FOR CANON PRINTER CARTRIDGES
>
> PANASONIC (0N PAGE 7)
>
> NEC SERIES 2 MODELS 90 AND 95----------$105
>
> APPLE (0N PAGE 8)
>
> LASER WRITER PRO 600 or 16/600------------$49
> LASER WRITER SELECT 300,320,360---------$74
> LASER WRITER 300 AND 320----------------------$54
> LASER WRITER NT, 2NT------------------------------$54
> LASER WRITER 12/640--------------------------------$79
>
>
>
> CANON FAX (ON PAGE 9)
>
> LASERCLASS 4000 (FX3)---------------------------$59
> LASERCLASS 5000,6000,7000 (FX2)---------$54
> LASERFAX 5000,7000 (FX2)----------------------$54
> LASERFAX 8500,9000 (FX4)----------------------$54
>
>
> CANON COPIERS (PAGE 10)
>
> PC 3, 6RE, 7 AND 11 (A30)---------------------$69
> PC 300,320,700,720 and 760 (E-40)--------$89
>
> IF YOUR CARTRIDGE IS NOT LISTED CALL CUSTOMER SERVICE AT 1-888-248-2015
>
> 90 DAY UNLIMITED WARRANTY INCLUDED ON ALL PRODUCTS.
>
> ALL TRADEMARKS AND BRAND NAMES LISTED ABOVE ARE PROPERTY OF THE
> RESPECTIVE HOLDERS AND USED FOR DESCRIPTIVE PURPOSES ONLY.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:39:46 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: toner supplies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Double my last order and include 2,000 Peperoni, Sausage and Pineapple
Pizzas and 1,000 liters of Diet Rootbeer and charge it all to:


G.W. Bush
1600 Pennsilvania Blvd
Washington D.C



----- Original Message -----
From: <laser16@E247.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:54 AM
Subject: toner supplies


> PLEASE FORWARD TO THE PERSON
> RESPONSIBLE FOR PURCHASING
> YOUR LASER PRINTER SUPPLIES
>
>
> **** VORTEX  SUPPLIES ****
>
> -SPECIALS OF THE DAY ON LASER TONER SUPPLIES AT DISCOUNT PRICES--
>
> LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGES
> COPIER AND FAX CARTRIDGES
>
> WE ARE -->THE<-- PLACE TO BUY YOUR TONER CARTRIDGES BECAUSE YOU
> SAVE UP TO 30% FROM OFFICE DEPOT'S, QUILL'S OR OFFICE MAX'S EVERY DAY
> LOW PRICES
>
> ORDER BY PHONE:1-888-288-9043
> ORDER BY FAX: 1-888-977-1577
> CUSTOMER SERVICE: 1-888-248-2015
> E-MAIL REMOVAL LINE: 1-888-248-4930
>
> UNIVERSITY AND/OR SCHOOL PURCHASE ORDERS WELCOME. (NO CREDIT APPROVAL
REQUIRED)
> ALL OTHER PURCHASE ORDER REQUESTS REQUIRE CREDIT APPROVAL.
>
> PAY BY CHECK (C.O.D), CREDIT CARD OR PURCHASE ORDER (NET 30 DAYS).
>
>
> IF YOUR ORDER IS BY CREDIT CARD PLEASE LEAVE YOUR CREDIT CARD # PLUS
EXPIRATION DATE.
> IF YOUR ORDER IS BY PURCHASE ORDER LEAVE YOUR SHIPPING/BILLING ADDRESSES
AND YOUR P.O. NUMBER
> NO SHIPPING CHARGES FOR ORDERS $49 OR OVER
> ADD $4.75 FOR ORDERS UNDER $49.
> C.O.D. ORDERS ADD $4.5 TO SHIPPING CHARGES.
>
> FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO REQUIRE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR COMPANY
> INCUDING FEDERAL TAX ID NUMBER, CLOSEST SHIPPING OR CORPORATE ADDRESS IN
THE
> CONTINENTAL U.S.  OR  FOR CATALOG  REQUESTS PLEASE CALL OUR CUSTOMER
> SERVICE LINE  1-888-248-2015
>
> OUR NEW , LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGE, PRICES ARE  AS FOLLOWS:
>
> (PLEASE ORDER BY PAGE NUMBER AND/OR ITEM NUMBER)
>
> HEWLETT PACKARD: (ON PAGE 2)
>
> ITEM #1  LASERJET SERIES  4L,4P (74A)------------------------$44
> ITEM #2  LASERJET SERIES  1100 (92A)-------------------------$44
> ITEM #3  LASERJET SERIES  2 (95A)-------------------------------$39
> ITEM #4  LASERJET SERIES  2P (75A)-----------------------------$54
> ITEM #5  LASERJET SERIES  5P,6P,5MP, 6MP (3903A)--$44
> ITEM #6  LASERJET SERIES  5SI, 5000 (29A)------------------$95
> ITEM #7  LASERJET SERIES  2100 (96A)-------------------------$74
> ITEM #8  LASERJET SERIES  8100 (82X)-----------------------$145
> ITEM #9  LASERJET SERIES  5L/6L (3906A0------------------$35
> ITEM #10 LASERJET SERIES  4V-------------------------------------$95
> ITEM #11 LASERJET SERIES 4000 (27X)-------------------------$72
> ITEM #12 LASERJET SERIES 3SI/4SI (91A)--------------------$54
> ITEM #13 LASERJET SERIES 4, 4M, 5,5M-----------------------$49
>
> HEWLETT PACKARD FAX (ON PAGE 2)
>
> ITEM #14 LASERFAX 500, 700 (FX1)----------$49
> ITEM #15  LASERFAX 5000,7000 (FX2)------$54
> ITEM #16  LASERFAX (FX3)------------------------$59
> ITEM #17  LASERFAX (FX4)------------------------$54
>
> LEXMARK/IBM (ON PAGE 3)
>
> OPTRA 4019, 4029 HIGH YIELD---------------$89
> OPTRA R, 4039, 4049 HIGH YIELD---------$105
> OPTRA E----------------------------------------------------$59
> OPTRA N--------------------------------------------------$115
> OPTRA S--------------------------------------------------$165
> -
> EPSON (ON PAGE 4)
>
> ACTION LASER 7000,7500,8000,9000-------$105
> ACTION LASER 1000,1500-------------------------$105
>
> CANON PRINTERS (ON PAGE 5)
>
>  PLEASE CALL FOR MODELS AND UPDATED PRICES
>  FOR CANON PRINTER CARTRIDGES
>
> PANASONIC (0N PAGE 7)
>
> NEC SERIES 2 MODELS 90 AND 95----------$105
>
> APPLE (0N PAGE 8)
>
> LASER WRITER PRO 600 or 16/600------------$49
> LASER WRITER SELECT 300,320,360---------$74
> LASER WRITER 300 AND 320----------------------$54
> LASER WRITER NT, 2NT------------------------------$54
> LASER WRITER 12/640--------------------------------$79
>
>
>
> CANON FAX (ON PAGE 9)
>
> LASERCLASS 4000 (FX3)---------------------------$59
> LASERCLASS 5000,6000,7000 (FX2)---------$54
> LASERFAX 5000,7000 (FX2)----------------------$54
> LASERFAX 8500,9000 (FX4)----------------------$54
>
>
> CANON COPIERS (PAGE 10)
>
> PC 3, 6RE, 7 AND 11 (A30)---------------------$69
> PC 300,320,700,720 and 760 (E-40)--------$89
>
> IF YOUR CARTRIDGE IS NOT LISTED CALL CUSTOMER SERVICE AT 1-888-248-2015
>
> 90 DAY UNLIMITED WARRANTY INCLUDED ON ALL PRODUCTS.
>
> ALL TRADEMARKS AND BRAND NAMES LISTED ABOVE ARE PROPERTY OF THE
> RESPECTIVE HOLDERS AND USED FOR DESCRIPTIVE PURPOSES ONLY.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:01:19 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: [adcomm] Energy
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOIECEENAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>
>
> My feeling is that it would be a miracle if we managed to
> pull ourselves out of this global mess we've made (and I
> don't believe in miracles.) If people were inclined to do
> the right thing wouldn't we have done so a long time ago?
>
> Dexter

I send you my feelings of confidence (***###!!~~~), which
Bucky sent to me. No need to despair just yet, Dex.

People always act/behave in their perceived own best
interest(why wouldn't they) with the experience and
knowledge they have at each particular moment. If we change
the environment toward
life-supporting-patterns-of-energy-usage, people will
spontaneously behave in a preferred manner. That is about
how I read Bucky's work.

I also like to says about kids- There is no misbehavior,
only behavior attempting to get needs met.

Preaching good behavior(however that is defined) has never
worked. CADS and intuition-inspired-inventing is
responsible for incredible life-support capabilities we
have witnessed in the last two centuries.

I share your concerns of the dangers of misused technology.
I pencil can be used to murder a person. But please don't
try to rid the world of pencils. Invent the future.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:50:36 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: pic info
Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Dick,

I think this is a special case design for radomes only:

"The geometry of a particular radome panel may cause a scattering error at a
certain frequency. If the radome were constructed of identical panels, the
error would be repeated. To eliminate this problem, some AFC radomes utilize
a pseudo-random panel design."

"Random panel design is achieved by starting with one of the Platonic Forms;
which is a method of dividing a sphere into 4, 6, 8, 12, or 20 identical
subdivisions. One of the subdivisions is then further divided into panels of
different shapes. By repeating this pattern, a complete sphere can be
constructed that will provide the pseudo-random panel distribution without
extensive fabrication costs."

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: pic info


> Thank you. What struck me about the picture is the seven
> triangles around a hub part. This is similiar to an aspect
> of my design. I guess I will find this 7-ness in most
> Radome pictures. I had not noticed it before. I don't think
> it shows in very many designs. Do you know of others?
>
> Dick

> --- Joe S Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > Dick,
> >
> > It took a while but I found the source of that picture.
> > See: http://www.radome.net/rad_cap.html
> >
> > It's from the Antennas for Communications (AFC) web site.
> >  They manufacture
> > radomes.  They're located in Ocala, FL.  Ron Posner is
> > one of the major owners.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:09:28 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3063521
Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Dick,

Take a look at:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Patents.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:40 AM
Subject: 3063521


> Joe- I guess not all of Bucky's patents are available
> webside yet.? I have _Inventions_ but I was hoping to cut
> and paste from some site.
>
> Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 05:50:21 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it?)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            22-MAR-2001  5:50
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it worked for me, Dick, from your message, two.

 I completely dysagree about the industrial effusiveness
 of "renewables," just as I don't buy into the marketingspiel
 of the "petroleum" companies --Obnoxico,
 which Bucky clearly did believe-- that this stuff is fossilized
 in any way.

 the quadrivium is the core of a classical education,
 which Bucky got and most of us did not,
 at least in part.  I await your comments, folks!

 thus quoth:
  Oh and solar cells can be manufactured using solar energy. George dubya
 and
  his band of cronies probably don't include that in their "Bush energy
  physics".


  All I gots was-sa blank page Brian. The page source code indicates a
 frame?



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Brian Hutchings" <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
  To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 7:58 AM
  Subject: la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it?)


  > <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            21-MAR-2001  6:58
  >                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
  >
  >  oops, that was a bum link; this one works.
  >
  >  http://www.xdrive.com/share/985211414186aSVOZ1VMQTr8FIRqQgBL

 --The Enron Liberation Front!
  >  http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:41:08 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Friend Jorge Arauz's Journey

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            22-MAR-2001  9:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 is it plausible to dystinguish between the UN institutions (IMF,
 World Bank etc.) as FDR had planned for them, and
 what was given us by Averill Harriman and Harry Truman, that is,
 Churchill's "system of modern day colonialism?"
    it is plain from the record of Elliot Roosevelt,
 that FDR'd never have allowed the leadersof two empires,
 the French and British, to be on a Security Council,
 unser the auspices of promoting an out-and-out colonialist "free trade;"
 isn't it?
    perhaps we were all dystracted by Churchill's declaration,
 in Truman's hometown, of an Iron Curtain a-falling.

 "Gentlemen, history shall be very kind to us."
 (attributed to Winny, who wrote a monumental history
 of WW2 that is more-or-less, well, rote !-)

 as for the role of the CIA and "American" hegemony,
 have you ever heard of Crown Agents?...  do you believe that
 the CIA is Earth's largest such agency, controlled
 by "Austin Powers?"

 thus quoth:
  have very little control over their own economies.  Big
  Business, through the CIA and Washington, control their
  economies and their elections.  Panama tried to be
  independent, and look what happened.  Nicaragua tried to

 well, yes; every time tha Manuel Noriega has a parole hearing,
 Sir George appears in person to denounce it!

 --The Enron Liberation Front!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:53:35 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it?)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            22-MAR-2001  9:53
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 maybe it's a matter of a recent version of Windows and/or Word?
    by the way, use it in your own words, or
 reprint it with suitably local info (re schoolboards etc.),
 as you wish.  any one need a straight ASCII look?

   http://www.xdrive.com/share/985211414186aSVOZ1VMQTr8FIRqQgBL

   --The Enron Liberation Front!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:55:04 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it?)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            22-MAR-2001  9:55
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oh, and sorry for any perception o'Bucky-bashing
 -- it ain't mine!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:42:18 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5/8
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

How about gumdrop structures?
http://www.exploratorium.edu/science_explorer/geo_gumdrops.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: 5/8


> J.W.Rich wrote:
>
> > Perhaps I should write my next book on "Edible Engineering
> > Examples" subtitled "Nourishment for body and mind".
> > How about as a diversion from all the heaviness of the last
> > week or so, we all lighten up, and have a thread on
> > interesting dome related experiments we can do with food.
>
> An excellent suggestion.
>
> I think the world is ready for a geodesic jello mold.
>
> jmr
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:49:48 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5/8
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Some more gumdrop architecture:
http://family2.go.com/features/family_1997_10/famf/famf107project/famf107pro
ject29.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: 5/8


> J.W.Rich wrote:
>
> > Perhaps I should write my next book on "Edible Engineering
> > Examples" subtitled "Nourishment for body and mind".
> > How about as a diversion from all the heaviness of the last
> > week or so, we all lighten up, and have a thread on
> > interesting dome related experiments we can do with food.
>
> An excellent suggestion.
>
> I think the world is ready for a geodesic jello mold.
>
> jmr
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:17:53 -0600
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 5/8
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> How about gumdrop structures?
> http://www.exploratorium.edu/science_explorer/geo_gumdrops.html
>
> > > interesting dome related experiments we can do with food.
> >
> > I think the world is ready for a geodesic jello mold.

If memory serves, Mother Earth News had plans for a delicious looking
2F icosa gingerbread dome.

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:22:24 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: la quadrivium, an immodest proposal (just beat it?)
In-Reply-To:  <200103221350.f2MDoLJ24639@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Brian- I am sure this is important but I am not able to
figure out what you are saying.

Dick

>  it worked for me, Dick, from your message, two.
>
>  I completely dysagree about the industrial effusiveness
>  of "renewables," just as I don't buy into the
> marketingspiel
>  of the "petroleum" companies --Obnoxico,
>  which Bucky clearly did believe-- that this stuff is
> fossilized
>  in any way.
>
>  the quadrivium is the core of a classical education,
>  which Bucky got and most of us did not,
>  at least in part.  I await your comments, folks!
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:35:20 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      trig
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Is pi an integral part of spherical trig? I guess it is but
not sure how.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:06:10 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: trig

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            23-MAR-2001 10:06
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Bucky had some thing interesting to say about this,
 in that there is not mixing of apples and cubed cheese;
 it's all relating angles to angles, so that
 "pi" does not really matter, except as a symbol
 (for half of a full cycle or 180 degrees).
    so, yes, one should study spherical trig,
 maybe even before the "regular" trig, and for doing (Earth) geometry.

 thus quoth:
  Is pi an integral part of spherical trig? I guess it is but
  not sure how.

 --L'Enron Liberacion Front!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:35:02 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Floating Cities
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The Deltaport proposals using the octet truss:

 http://home.thezone.net/~deltaprt/floating_city.htm

http://home.thezone.net/~deltaprt/structure.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:55:14 -0500
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      buckyballs  as pistons
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----- Original Message -----
From: AIP listserver <physnews@aip.org>
To: <physnews-mailing@aip.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:21 PM
Subject: update.531


PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 531  March 22, 2001   by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein,
and James Riordon

A CARBON NANOTUBE INTEGRATED CIRCUIT....

[snip - lots of developments re nanotubes...]


 Finally,
Masako Yudasaka of the NEC lab in Japan (81-(0)298-50-1190,
yudasaka@frl.cl.nec.co.jp) reported on the enormous pressures that
arise when C60 molecules are encased inside nanotubes (an
arrangement called "peapods" the force on the C60 is only a
nano-Newton, but by dividing by the area of the tube, one arrives
at a pressure of .1 giga-Pascal.  In other words the buckyball can
act like a piston for facilitating novel forms of tailored chemistry.
 ...
[.1 giga-Pascal is about 1000 atmospheres of pressure - LB]
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:45:43 +0800
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From:         M <callum2v@MS15.HINET.NET>
Subject:      hangar
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Didn't  I see  an illustration for a  1/3  4  frequency   icosa  dome  proposal  for an  airplane
hangar  on  joemoore's  pages?
Been  unable to find  it  again.
Can  somebody  give me  an url?


Thanks

Malcolm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 03:31:35 -0700
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      GENI@home?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0B412.ED6B0A00"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Cruising the web I found this article about distributed computing over =
the web (I've been running the SETI@home screen saver myself). About =
half way down the article the author points out the possibility of =
distributing computing being used to control electrical grids. This =
could be very useful as more states allow consumers to sell power back =
to the grid. At this time I believe 30 states allow consumers to sell =
power back to the grid. A computing distribution system I think could =
even be integrated into home owned solar energy harvesting systems, =
solar cells etc. so that not only would the CPU be helping the overall =
grid distribution of electrical power but it could keep track of the =
power being sold back to the grid by its own in home system. Even to the =
point of searching for the best price?=20
=20

http://www.discovery.com/news/features/supercomputer/seti-pace.html



A Fuller Explanation: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html





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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cruising the web I found this article =
about=20
distributed computing over the web (I've been running the SETI@home =
screen saver=20
myself). About half way down the article the author points out the =
possibility=20
of distributing computing being used to control electrical grids. This =
could be=20
very useful as more states allow consumers to sell power back to the =
grid. At=20
this time I believe 30 states allow consumers to sell power back to the =
grid. A=20
computing distribution system I think could even be integrated into home =
owned=20
solar energy harvesting systems, solar cells etc. so that not only would =

the&nbsp;CPU be helping the overall grid distribution of electrical =
power but it=20
could keep track of the power being sold back to the grid by its own in =
home=20
system. Even to the point of searching for the best =
price?&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.discovery.com/news/features/supercomputer/seti-pace.ht=
ml">http://www.discovery.com/news/features/supercomputer/seti-pace.html</=
A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A Fuller Explanation: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html">http://www.angelf=
ire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 04:08:50 -0700
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Where is wind power?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B418.21E45200"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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DOE map of windy places. Unfortunately it doesn't show "Hot air" =
resources like hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Washington D.C.=20


http://www.eren.doe.gov/windpoweringamerica/where_is_wind.html

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DOE map of windy places. Unfortunately =
it doesn't=20
show "Hot air" resources like hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Washington D.C. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.eren.doe.gov/windpoweringamerica/where_is_wind.html">h=
ttp://www.eren.doe.gov/windpoweringamerica/where_is_wind.html</A></FONT><=
/DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:00:29 -0800
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: trig
In-Reply-To:  <200103231806.f2NI6AO32292@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>  "pi" does not really matter, except as a symbol
>  (for half of a full cycle or 180 degrees).

And this refernce to pi is optional, correct?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:25:32 -0800
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Comments:     SoVerNet Verification (on pike.sover.net) [209.198.113.135] from
              arc1a134.bf.sover.net [209.198.113.135] 209.198.113.135 Sat, 24
              Mar 2001 10:24:26 -0500 (EST)
From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      trig
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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>  "pi" does not really matter, except as a symbol
>  (for half of a full cycle or 180 degrees).

And this refernce to pi is optional, correct?



 In simple terms, trig is based on the ratios of sides of triangles. In
spherical trig, it is more complicated, more
like the ratios of edge lengths of tetrahedra. With a spherical triangle,
there are six sets of angles to describe the edge lengths (which is the way
the edges are measured, in degrees) while planar right triangles are
described with three angles to describe the edge lengths. The corner angles
are also used in calculations in both kinds of trigonometry, so you have
this situation where edge lengths and corner angles are all measured in
degrees. Sounds weird at first, but it works beautifully. Pi doesn't seem to
enter into the calculations; at least not for me when I work with geodesic
material.
                                                Steve
Formactive--
http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:50:30 -0800
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              arc5a316.bf.sover.net [209.198.117.126] 209.198.117.126 Sat, 24
              Mar 2001 10:49:34 -0500 (EST)
From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      trig
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

  I made an error in my description of spherical trig

> With a spherical triangle, there are six sets of angles to describe the edge
lengths (which is the way the edges are measured, in degrees).

  Three of the edges of the 'tetrahedron' are the radius of the sphere, and
are known (r).  The other three are expressed as central angles, in degrees.
Sorry.
                                                    Steve
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:59:56 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: hangar
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Malcolm,

I think this is what you are looking for:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeLargeHangar.htm

See also 2 Spruce Goose Dome pics:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/ByBFitinerary-1969.htm
and
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/AboutBFArticles-1995.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "M" <callum2v@MS15.HINET.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:45 PM
Subject: hangar


> Didn't  I see  an illustration for a  1/3  4  frequency   icosa  dome
proposal  for an  airplane
> hangar  on  joemoore's  pages?
> Been  unable to find  it  again.
> Can  somebody  give me  an url?
>
> Thanks
>
> Malcolm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 08:45:55 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] "Tweedledee, Indeed"

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            24-MAR-2001  8:45
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

    |  election. Most would have welcomed a Nader primary challenge
    |  to Gore that forced the latter to respond to issues of

 this, of course, is the key issue which, according
 to a rather vague quote of Nader ("since '84, '88, '92, '96,"
 which was the whole that was set in quotation marks
 in the story in the (LA) Daily News (taken from the NYT)),
 just a couple of weeks before the election; that is,
 he was apparently peeved at the question, and seemingly had
 been waiting for the DNC to just drag him in as the annointee,
 just as the Green Part finally did in '96,
 when he was not a member of it.  (please, guess,
 how many university systems there are,
 where the PIRG is an student government-funded presence, and
 speculate on what they were able to pull in FSU; thanks.)

    |  gesture. That's why, even when it became clear that Nader
    |  held the balance between Gore and Bush in key states like
    |  Florida and New Hampshire, he refused to release his
    |  supporters. Nader actually looked forward to a Bush

 why are folks on the Left so incredulous about this?
    with such a close margin, almost *any* state was a key state,
 and Gore thereby lost on his own account by ripping-off 53,000 votes
 in Arkansas in the primary, thus ensuring the margin of 50,000
 by which Bush won in the general (or,
 I'd be happy to see an analysis of Nader's results, Buchanan's etc.).
 presumably, if nowhere else in The Na-- I mean, the nation,
 Tennesseeans had heard of this rapacious behavior, as well
 as of the deal with the Supreme Court on March 27,
 that allowed it to be "legal," if not noticed by the media.

 now, I wouldn't really argue with most of the rest, except
 for the underlaying presumption that "Son o'Rubbers" won't lead the way
 on the monetization of carbon dioxide emmissions,
 just so lon as no-one is seriously allowed to consider nuclear power,
 and so on.  cue bono?

    |  * torpedoed global efforts to combat planetary
    |    warming--breaking a campaign pledge and humiliating his EPA
    |    chief--by ruling out regulation of carbon dioxide emissions
    |    (after Nader lauded Bush's support for such measures as
    |    "historic");

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 09:02:10 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] "Tweedledee, Indeed"

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            24-MAR-2001  9:02
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 please recall Bugliosi's article in The Nation,
 where he definitively showed (I think) not only the criminality
 of the Court, but that David "good ol'" Boies" refused
 to so-much as mention the Voting Rights Act,
 for reasons which are apparently only known to a select few,
 since shortly after the Ides of the previous March.
    please alos note the tell-tales in last week's WSJ,
 that the industry group that Bush is using to negotiate
 over emmissions-marketization, was marshalled by Gore, along
 with O'Neill's famous, first Cabinet meeting opinion,
 that "global" warming is a potential "global holocaust."

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 >  http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:32:30 -0800
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.princeton.edu
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Graphing calculators and PDA's
Comments: To: mathedcc@mathforum.com
In-Reply-To:  <002101c0b498$332279e0$355dd883@0016606087>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 11:25:33 -0800, you wrote:

>In addition, the excel capabilities... and web capturing which allows =
you to
>collect real world data. The possibilities are endless.
>
>Cynthia

Of course I'll throw in my predictable response, which is as
long as we're moving 'beyond calculators' it's time to figure
how to fit real computers into the picture.

=46rom the student's point of view, what matters most are files
and the software needed to work with them -- i.e. projects,=20
actual creations into which the student has poured hours of=20
blood, sweat and tears (a growing portfolio -- web pages,=20
artworks, MathCad notebooks -- you name it).

=46iles are light weight and ephemeral, and as long as there's
a network in the picture, you can access the same files from
home, remotely, at school, even on the job (work/study).  There's
no danger of "dropping" these files (some discussion here of
what happens if you drop a PalmPilot vs. a more robust TI=20
calculator) -- but they do get corrupted (good to have=20
backups).

=46rom a student's point of view, it'd be great to walk into
math class and sit down at a workstation, ready to go.  This
files she'd been accessing from the dorm are now accessible
from the classroom, and may be retrieved in whatever is the
appropriate software package (Mathematica or whatever).

We're not necessarily requiring students to lug laptops=20
wherever they go.  On the other hand, few math classes have=20
these ready-to-go workstations.  Pity.  There's so much you
can do with computers that calculators (even programmable
ones) and PDAs can't cover.

If you'd like to see an example of the kind of curriculum you
might use, to mix theory and practice, I've got a new 4-parter
on the web starting at:

   http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/crypto0.html

It's a bit "in the rough" at the moment -- I'm polishing the
material, filling in some gaps.  I'd appreciate any feedback.

The approach is to slice through group theory, cryptography and
programming (Python) all at once.  I don't get high level in=20
any of them, but with all three going, there's plenty to chew
on.  If you knowing something about any two of these topics,
that'll help leverage growing familiarity with the third.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:47:50 -0800
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Government on a neighboring planet
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi gang,

I thought you might like this; it's describes the
socio-political and legio-economic organization of
the most advanced nation on one of our neighboring
planets (but not in this solar system.) I see lots
of good ideas that might be applied to our world.

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper72.html

I find the educational system, voting by guilds,
and the industrial courts most intriguing. Plus
you will appreciate that they have no religious
institutions like we do but public temples of
philosophy and 15 divisions of science schools.

Dexter


PS: Please try to consider the value of some of
these ideas independent of the context in which
they are presented. I know your training rejects
ETs and Gods. Just think of it as mythic theater
designed to convey meaningful ideas to the masses.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Mar 2001 11:58:56 -0800
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From:         Stephen Neece <bridge@DOOR.NET>
Subject:      Bucky and Korzybski
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hello All,

Does anyone on the list know if RBF was influenced by Alfred Korzybski,
directly or indirectly, etc., and do you have a reference if so?

Stephen Neece
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Mar 2001 15:51:44 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Laminar Dome
Comments: To: The Millers <triorbtl@sover.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Steve,

See this page on BFI's web site:
http://www.bfi.org/laminar_dome.htm

Also, a search of my web site produces 8 hits:
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=2029983&pageid=r&mode=ALL&query=lami
nar

There are several patent search web sites, but I don't think they go back
that far--at least the last time I checked:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Patents.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Millers" <triorbtl@sover.net>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 3:13 PM
Subject: Laminar Dome


> Dear Sir,
>     Could you direct me to the illustrations of the Laminar Geodesic Dome
> Patent? (3,203,144). In particular I need a picture of Figure 1.
>                                                                 Thank you.
>                                                         Steve Miller
> Formactive--
> http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:25:58 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Government on a neighboring planet

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            25-MAR-2001  9:25
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 don't take this with a bad attitude (or try).
    you can compare this system of industrial "guilds"
 to that of Mussolini's;
 see http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm

 thus quoth:
  http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper72.html

  I find the educational system, voting by guilds,
  and the industrial courts most intriguing. Plus
  you will appreciate that they have no religious
  institutions like we do but public temples of
  philosophy and 15 divisions of science schools.

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:47:26 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Bucky and Korzybski
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stephen,

I don't know if Korzybski had any influence on Fuller, but here are two refs
at my web site:
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=2029983&pageid=r&mode=ALL&query=Korz
ybski

See the book _Alfred Korzybski & R B Fuller: Study in Environmental
Theories_

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Neece" <bridge@DOOR.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 11:58 AM
Subject: Bucky and Korzybski


> Hello All,
>
> Does anyone on the list know if RBF was influenced by Alfred Korzybski,
> directly or indirectly, etc., and do you have a reference if so?
>
> Stephen Neece
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Mar 2001 23:00:07 -0800
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: quote
Comments: To: mediales <mediales@t-online.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hubert,

I'm fairly sure Fuller coined that phrase, but I don't know where in his
literature the phrase would be.  Several books by or about Fuller are now
online.  See:
http://www.bfi.org/
You might try searching them.  I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to the
Geodesic list.  Maybe one of the subscribers might be able to answer your
question.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "mediales" <mediales@t-online.de>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: quote


> Hi Joe!
>
> Thank you very much for this fantastic site about Bucky.
> Cause you are a specialist in bucky, can you answer me the following
question:
> I have had a discussion with a friend. I said, that the quote "Think
global, act
> local" is said by buckminster Fuller. Is this correct? Can yout tell me,
where
> Fuller did say it? Can I read it anywhere in Fullers Books?
>
> Thanks
> Hubert
> (Excuse me english, I'm writing from germany)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Mar 2001 05:44:29 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] tweedledee

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            26-MAR-2001  5:44
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Bill "R" Martin again misses a crucial element of Gore's campaign:
 he screwed with the Voting Rights Act before the last primaries, then
 refused
 to invoke it in Florida (re dysenfranchizement, not counting).
 Apparently,
 if it was not reported in the New York Times, it hath not occur'd!
    Why, Skip Smendler, did the Dems have 42 votes
 for a fillibuster of Ashcroft, and do nothing with them?  I have thought
 that it was because of his touted 100% rating on IT issues, as far
 as funding influences go.  Supposedly, the bankrpuptcy bill
 that you sight is stuck in the joint cmte., but it seems to be just a
 matter
 of the "R" party wanting a single-vote majority in it,
 which certainly ought to be fought, all of the way!
    I just happenned to listen to NPR for a while this morning (because
 I think it sucks, 24x7x52), and they blatantly lied as to why it was that
 the Dem congressional races had pulled-even for the first time,
 last June, with the "R" ones, in terms of soft money.  No supporting
 reason
 was given for this big white lie, but that was only the second time
 that I've seen it so-much as mentioned, so, there y'go.


 Thus quoth Smendler:
 one.  But I think it is interesting to note, for example, the lopsided
  majority in favor of thebankruptcy bill that Alterman decries, and the
  general lack of any meaningful opposition on the part of the Dems to the
  Shrub's cabinet appointees.  I am curious to know if Alterman read Robert
  Reich's recent obituary for the Democratic Party...

 Thus quoth Martin:
 I guess one could say this and still be correct.  The Supreme Court
  accurately, in my judgment and interpretation, interpreted the
 Constitution
  literally which required equal protection of the laws,  the prohibition
 of
  new laws or rules enacted or made more than x number of days before the
  election and came to the only conclusion it could legally come to.
 Further,
  had the votes been counted, as determined by the Press which has counted
 the
  votes in Miami, Date, Broward and Palm Beach Counties,  Bush still would
 have
  won -- even when counting at the most liberal standards.  They are still

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Mar 2001 05:52:42 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Bucky and Korzybski

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            26-MAR-2001  5:52
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I guess that K. (thanks for spelling it!) was sort
 of an impresario for "general semantics," somehow seguing
 into general systems theory, which is sort of an "ivory tower" approach
 to science, IMHO.  in the hands of K.,
 I'd guess that general semantics was more
 of a "tower of Babel" approach to anything (ekistics, epistemology, or
 philology -- the Humboldtian mother of all grokkin' !-)

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:26:08 -0800
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From:         Stephen Neece <bridge@DOOR.NET>
Subject:      Re: quote
In-Reply-To:  <001901c0b5c2$7b06cce0$1808fbcf@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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              boundary="=====================_158650943==_.ALT"

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>Hubert,
>"Think global, act local" is said by buckminster Fuller. Is this correct?


All,

         The quote "Think globally, act locally" is attributed to Rene Du
Bois.  See The Collected Writings of Rene Du Bois"

Stephen Neece


--=====================_158650943==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Hubert,<br>
&quot;Think global, act local&quot; is said by buckminster Fuller. Is
this correct? </blockquote><br>
<br>
All,<br>
<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>The quote
&quot;Think globally, act locally&quot; is attributed to Rene Du
Bois.&nbsp; See <u>The Collected Writings of Rene Du Bois&quot;<br>
<br>
</u>Stephen Neece<br>
<br>
</html>

--=====================_158650943==_.ALT--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:52:18 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Bushonomics

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            26-MAR-2001 13:52
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Looting Indonesia: The Energy
 Brokers 'Warm-Up' for California
 by Michael Billington
 It is now widely acknowledged among sane individuals, that the ongoing
 looting of California (and other states) by a handful of energy brokers,
 under the cover of "deregulation," is having the effect, as if by design,
 of collapsing an economy which was already weakened by the bursting of the
 financial bubble. It is instructive to those who may doubt that such
 corporate geniuses would consciously destroy an economy, for nothing more
 than an apparent short-term gain, to examine the process of looting which
 has taken place against Indonesia since the mid-1990s, by many of the same
 entities now "doing" California.

 Altogether, 27 joint venture energy contracts were set up in the early to
 mid 1990s in Indonesia. Each one included a foreign power producer.
 Billington examines projects with MidAmerican, Edison Mission, and Florida
 Power and Light, and their common characteristic--bulk electricity payment
 in dollars, not rupiah, and whether the electricity was needed or not.

 When the bubble burst in 1997-98, the multinational corporations,
 international banks, the IMF, the United Nations, and the U.S. State
 Department all demanded that the corrupt contracts be honored in full, or
 Indonesia would be subjected to credit termination, economic sanctions,
 seizure of assets, and political destabilization by non-governmental
 organizations (NGOs) and other "private" operations controlled by the Wall
 Street and London power elite.

 Billington's article in full, is to appear in the March 30, 2001 issue of
 EIR.

 --The End Was Nigh!
    http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Mar 2001 06:38:12 EST
Reply-To:     handyandy@republic.com
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From:         toner9@ASIANWIRED.NET
Subject:      toner supplies
Comments: To: handyandy@republic.com

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Date:         Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:28:28 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Politics and science

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            27-MAR-2001  3:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 following this comment upon Pam Rider's and Karen Street's,
 I've appended a (altered) letter to the LATimes
 that was certainly not published (or it may have been
 to the NYT, which I don't follow, regurlarly .-)

 I must completely dysagree with this notion of difference
 between science and education.  if one is tasked
 to recreate the scientific dyscvoveries of the past,
 than one will have to engage in inquiry and debate.  all else
 is rote-learning, or what has also been called,
 in a racist fasion, "Chinese school."
    as for radon, I recommend the last issue
 of 21st C. Science and Technology for its review
 of the rather large UNSCEAR study on Chernobyl etc.,
 going back to comparisons with the studies
 of the survivors of the (ill-advized) bombing
 of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, two.  yes, though,
 there certainly is an occupational hazard!

 thus quoth:
  But. Science does not produce a "product." Theories are produced.
 Theories
  are tested and debated. We would never have had science, if everyone
 agreed
  on the basis of observations.

  The essence of science is inquiry and debate.
 ...
  that could perhaps be better spent checking recent science news stories
 for

 Re: [Quaker-P] Ill Uranium Miners
  Uranium dust is a particle, which a functioning lung cleans out, putting
 it
  into the blood stream; in a few more days, it will be gone from the body.
  But all of the ...ons are gases. Radon is a heavy gas which can sink into
  the lung; it is not necessarily breathed out again. Additionally, radon
 has
  a much shorter half-life than uranium, a few days rather than billions of
  years.

 Dear Editor;
 EPA's Whitman may not be as naieve as Huffington (March 20).
 Could it be that the energy cartel backers of the Administration
 would prefer for it to lead the way on what the UN IPCC is supposed
 to be doing, by monetizing emmissions of carbon dioxide,
 within the ideology of globalisation, free trade?  (Or,
 can an undead salesman sell almost anything for a nice profit?)
    According to the Wall Street Journal, at the first meeting
 of the Cabinet, Treasury Secretary O'Neill let it be known that
 he thought of climate change as a "global holocaust," coming
 from an industry, aluminum fabrication, that uses "tons"
 of energy.  He may not be as powerful as the Fed Chair,
 these days, but he surely will be able to speak to California,
 the "polyglot nation" -- in the Journal's comparison
 of our state to Indonesia under IMF diktats -- of suckers
 to the nominally Texan e-mafia, for conveyance
 of the President's terms of endearment
 to the rest of the world!  (Note that these terms'd have
 been little different with Gore in office, since
 the Journal also reported that the oil-industry group
 that the Administration's been working with on emmissions,
 was corralled by Gore.)
    Since DWP head Freeman has admitted
 to being a key dupe in the creation of deregulation, and
 since he's also the "green-e" guy and a former head
 of the TVA (with authority over nuclear stations),
 maybe he will be able to bring that up as an alternative,
 as the Administration refuses to do
 on the enviromaniacal coast -- or anywhere else, as if
 the hunting of "fossilstuff" were the only available technology.

 Brian Quincy Hutchings
 3032 Exposition Blvd. #C, Santa Monica 90404
 (no phone)

 --le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:19:45 -0800
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Free hardware design library proposed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I think this approach should be adopted to all fields of
engineering (housing, transportation, and food production)
not just computers. Open source livingry development! -Dex



Free hardware design library proposed
http://news.excite.com/news/zd/010327/14/free-hardware-design

Updated 2:33 PM ET March 27, 2001
by John G. Spooner, ZDNet News

Instead of investing millions in basic design work, companies
would be able to tap the library for the know-how they need,
licensing designs for chips and other technology for free.

A cadre of hardware developers is trying to bring concepts from
the open-source software world to the hardware business.

Engineers around the world, connected via the Internet, are
seeking to develop a vast library of freely available hardware
designs, similar to how Linux developers and other open-source
programmers share intellectual property.

This open-source hardware library--consisting of design
elements for processors, memory controllers, peripherals,
motherboards and a host of other components--would aide
semiconductor start-ups and device manufacturers alike. Instead
of investing millions in basic and sometimes redundant
design work, companies would be able to tap the library for the
know-how they need, licensing designs for chips and other
technology for free.

At the same time, selecting well-designed open-source hardware
has the potential to speed development of computing devices,
ranging from set-top boxes to network switches.

"I started investigating open-source hardware when I was a
student in the late '90s," Jamil Khatib, an open-source hardware
designer and unofficial evangelist for open-source hardware group
OpenCores, said in an e-mail interview. "I was wondering why
there (was) not open-source hardware, like open-source software,
so I started publishing my designs on the Web.

"The open source (process), in general, is the result of
contributions from many people around the world about specific
design that is open for anyone to contribute (to) and review."

No free chip But choosing to go the open-source hardware route
is not as simple as downloading and installing a copy of Linux.
Companies using open-source designs still need to integrate the
open-source elements into final device designs. This could prove
to be a frustrating and costly effort, with no one available to
provide direct support for an open-source technology.
Potential patent issues also loom.

"You see, hardware can never be really free," said Rudolf
Usselmann, a chip designer and active participant in OpenCores.
"However, we hope for some cheaper and better-quality hardware.
Just look at the unit price of an Intel Pentium chip."

To get around the manufacturing issue, the open-source
community is seeking agreements with companies such as
Flextronics, which provides chip manufacturing, engineering and
design services.

Ultimately, the open-source hardware community would like to
create a library so vast that companies could use it to build
devices based entirely on open-source designs. But that will take
some time.

United by the NetOpen-source hardware owes its life to a number
of individuals who, above all eles, think it's fun to design
chips and other hardware. The leaders of the movement congregate
and share their ideas at focal points on the Internet, such as
the OpenCores Web site.

One of the most important efforts now under way is an effort to
develop the next OpenRISC processor. The processor--which could
be used in Web appliances, factory machines and other
Internet-connected devices--is based on a RISC
(reduced instruction set) processor core now available as an
open-source design. OpenCores plans to integrate a memory
controller and a USB controller, among other items, with the new
OpenRISC chip.

"Big companies spend a lot of money on engineering, not always
working very efficiently," Usselmann said. "In the OpenCores
community, we the techies know what we want and we know it best."

The group is moving to design its next OpenRISC processor with
new system-on-a-chip capabilities. A system-on-a-chip (SOC)
processor puts a processor core and all the peripheral functions
necessary to run a certain hardware device on a single chip. SOC
chips are generally used in devices such as set-top boxes,
Internet appliances and even some PCs. The new chip would compete
with offerings from traditional chipmakers, including
National Semiconductor, IBM and even Transmeta, itself an
open-source software participant.

Developers, including some working on the new chip, got into
open-source hardware for fun. But they quickly became vocal
proponents for the open-source way of working.

Other members happened on the OpenCore site by chance and
signed on.

"Basically I was getting bored," Usselmann said. "I needed
something to keep the gray matter going. By accident I came
across the OpenCores Web page, and joined in.

"It started as an exercise and to have something to do besides
enjoying life. It evolved into lots of fun little projects,
without management breathing down your neck, producing cores that
people actually find useful."

Now Usselmann is working to help design the OpenRISC chip and
also to help arrange sponsorships for OpenCores projects, both in
the form of procuring needed development tools and securing
support from contract chip manufacturers, he said.

Growing library With new system-on-a-chip designs in the works,
along with efforts to create memory controllers, DSP chips and
even motherboards, the wealth of technology available at
OpenCores promises to snowball.

Usselmann alone has posted a number of designs.

"So far they have been mostly simple little projects, my
current one (the USB 2.0 IP core) is by far the most complex," he
said.

Usselmann's PIC clone, a version of a popular RISC
microcontroller, has been used in several finished chips
"because my design is so much faster and allows the users to
control what kind and how many peripherals they actually
include," he said.

One of the main challenges developers at OpenCores face is
that, despite being able to obtain hardware designs for free, the
cost of integrating those hardware bits into a device is still
considerable, analysts say.

"The big savings would be in licensing fees and royalties on a
part, if you ship significant quantities," said Kevin Krewell,
senior analyst at MicroDesign Resources.

Support network At the same time, device makers need support in
a range of areas when developing their products.

"The hardest part is software support," Krewell said.
The hardware must be made to be compatible with software used in
devices.

Despite the potential for new businesses to crop up, it's
unlikely open-source hardware will be as disruptive to hardware
makers as open-source software has been to the software industry
and players such as Microsoft.

Established chipmakers such as Intel and IBM might not be
directly challenged by open-source hardware because their
technology, such as Intel's X86 processor architecture, is
protected by a number of closely held patents.

It is possible to create an open-source X86 chip, but without a
license for the technology, "I don't think anyone could hit the
open-source world with X86 and survive Intel," Krewell said.

OpenCores engineers seem unconcerned with competition, however.

"We can combine the know-how from all over the world and build
and improve on technologies and products," Usselmann said. "I'm
certain that it will become a big success. As we develop more and
more cores and address different areas of applications, people
are starting to pay more attention to us and what we are doing."

Usselmann added that dislodging established chipmakers isn't
really the point for open-source hardware. "Just like Intel
and AMD can coexist, we can coexist with the big players. We do
not intend to compete with the Suns and Ciscos out there."

But established players would be wise to pay attention to this
new hardware-development trend, Khatib said.

"The open-source hardware trend will not compete with such
companies, but they may need to change their strategies," he said.

When you offer "more options to companies in how they approach
the market, that's a good thing," Krewell said.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:59:51 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Free hardware design library proposed

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            27-MAR-2001 10:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it is funny, how folks consider the opensource "soft" ware stuff
 to be like free beer (or that "free beer" has no ulterior motive .-)
    I don't make that dystinction on the basis of the schism
 between Stallman's Free 'ware Foundation, and that
 of the Open Source org (see the recent Dr.Dobb's Journal,
 letter to the editor; Linux is crap, compared to HURD,
 I guess !-)

 thus quoth:
  "You see, hardware can never be really free," said Rudolf
  Usselmann, a chip designer and active participant in OpenCores.
  "However, we hope for some cheaper and better-quality hardware.
  Just look at the unit price of an Intel Pentium chip."

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:34:34 -0800
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      The Gizmo electric car
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A three wheel, one person, city commute vehicle, goes
up to 40 mph, with a 25 mile range, and costs $8650.


Neighborhood Electric Vehicle Company
http://www.nevco.com/gizmo.html

Nice photo of a Gizmo
http://www.veva.bc.ca/rev/2000/9285018.htm

TRANSPORTATION STATISTICS
http://www.nevco.com/stats.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:44:00 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Gizmo electric car
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOAEEEENAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I saw an _Insight_ Honda today. It says- gas/electric
hybrid. I think it has a remarkable resemblence to the
Dymaxion car.

--- Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET> wrote:
> A three wheel, one person, city commute vehicle, goes
> up to 40 mph, with a 25 mile range, and costs $8650.
>
>
> Neighborhood Electric Vehicle Company
> http://www.nevco.com/gizmo.html
>
> Nice photo of a Gizmo
> http://www.veva.bc.ca/rev/2000/9285018.htm
>
> TRANSPORTATION STATISTICS
> http://www.nevco.com/stats.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:03:25 -0800
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From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Gizmo electric car
In-Reply-To:  <20010328224400.12402.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Dick Fischbeck
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 14:44
>
> I saw an _Insight_ Honda today. It says- gas/electric
> hybrid. I think it has a remarkable resemblance to the
> Dymaxion car.

These hybrid cars (Toyota makes one too) run on gasoline
and cost about $20,000. They are more efficient only in
stop and go traffic because the motor turns off when the
car is not moving. They get about 40 mpg on the highway.
You should stop by your local dealer and test drive one;
the Toyotas have a cool computer display in the dashboard
that shows power flow through the system as you drive and
provides current mpg information along with a 20 minute
histogram. Talk about cell phones being a distraction: as
I drove around town I had a hard time keeping my eyes off
the dashboard display--I managed to look up occasionally.

The three wheel GIZMO has much more of a resemblance to
the Dymaxion than do the Toyota or Honda hybrids. -Dex


> --- Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET> wrote:
> > A three wheel, one person, city commute vehicle, goes
> > up to 40 mph, with a 25 mile range, and costs $8650.
> >
> >
> > Neighborhood Electric Vehicle Company
> > http://www.nevco.com/gizmo.html
> >
> > Nice photo of a Gizmo
> > http://www.veva.bc.ca/rev/2000/9285018.htm
> >
> > TRANSPORTATION STATISTICS
> > http://www.nevco.com/stats.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:40:31 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Foreign Aid

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            28-MAR-2001 12:40
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 PBS's pretense of "reforms" are well-known to the Mont Pelerin Society,
 which also promotes them (see the unsigned article in National Review
 from a few years ago, "Global Warning," about this massively
 supranational affilliation of "think tanks,"
 which includes the Heritage Fdn., the American Enterprize Inst.,
 the 'WAND' Corp. etc. ad vomitorium -- and which also serves
 to show how willing are philanthropes to work-around the death penal--
 I mean, "death tax," if it serves the interest of their *fondi*).
    isn't it strange, that the IMF promotes these same things
 with the bogeyman-maker of Transparancy Intl., and that
 they are all subsumed under the banner of Free Trade,
 Laissez-faire, and so on?
    do we always have to have the dialectal crappola of a marksist,
 that "capitalism" is the same thing as the root of all evil?

 thus quoth:
  PBS had a news item regarding the release of a study regarding foreign
 aid.
 The
  conclusion was that foreign assistance without the kind of reforms that
 enabled
  a country to stabilize it currancy, etc., were as likely to be
 counterproductive
  in development as they were helpful.

  Too often assistance enabled reforms to be stalled off on mere promises
 of
  reform, and the money provided as aid
  temporarily helped the foreign currancy to stabilize, but, the ultimate
 result
  was detrimental to the country.

  They cited several African countries as case studies with Ivory Coast as
 a
  unfortunate example of deferred reforms, and contrasted with another case
 where
  the economy is responding well.

  I do not have access to the report, but I would encourage interested
 people
 who
  see good critiques of the study to comment on them or to email me the
 address so
  I can find read them.

  It is so easy to be well intended in this area but ending up creating
  consequences counter to what is desires.

  Friend Jack Powelson of Boulder Meeting is a professional in this area
  (economics of development) at the U. of Colorado
  and years ago shared the opinion/advice at an FGC interest group, that
 most
  large scale foreign assistance was probably counter-productive and that
 Friends
  should encourage and support small scale project thru NGO's.
 Incidentally,
 he
  is now writing an electronic newsletter titled "The Classic Liberal
 Quaker" on
  various provocative ideas, and can be reached at http://quaker.org/clq/
 or,
 clq-subscribe@quaker.org.

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:01:49 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Politics and data?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            28-MAR-2001 13:01
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 concerning both the political use of the ABA, and the data about ANWR:

 the ABA ain't the ill-called Federalist Society, or might
 be some of its loyal opposition, but may be prey
 to that sort of political correctness that is akin
 to the supposed duality of Marx and Smith; eh?

 the ANWR's #1 oil company is the green one, BP,
 who are sure to play a role in the President's "caving-in"
 to the advice from his patrician Euro-elders, Schroeder e.g., or
 I should say his "trilateral" ones, harkening unto
 the Kyoto Protocols of the precievedly immediate future (if it exists),
 and the "oil crisis" of Carter and Brzezinski (the first president
 of the Trilateral Commission; yeeha .-)
    "Beyond Petroleum Ltd." is, of course, our #1 dystributor
 of gasoline and motor-oil, with its Arco unit in Alaska, and
 its Amoco unit in Jamaica (selling LNG to the Northeast,
 every winter).

 thus quoth:
  Your confusion may stem from the (unwarranted)  assumption that
  data must by definition be objective.  In this case -- and as I

 thus quoth:
  that Eisenhower was an experienced commander who made a great many life
 and
  death decisions in his career. Good commanders don't just listen to
 people

 was that why he was referred to as "Eisenhowever," or was that
 *only* calumny?...  it should be noted that
 he was the only president to who was elected in violation
 of the Constituional prohibition against the Commander in Chief
 to kneel before a monarch's sword, and live!
    (in that case,
 it was beneath the mercy of the Colonel in Chief
 of the Holy British Empire, the same which kept Sir Colin
 from being a candidate .-)

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:45:04 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: more information
Comments: To: Farhad heidaree <f_heidaree@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Farhad,

The only information that I have is the following:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/EndEnergyBreakwaterFloat.htm

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeWater.htm

http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=2029983&pageid=r&mode=ALL&query=brea
kwater

If you have further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farhad heidaree" <f_heidaree@yahoo.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 6:09 PM
Subject: more information


> dear sir

> please send us more information about floating break
> water like catalogs and films.thanks

> tel:+98 21 2537617
> fax:+98 21 2537617
> addres:49 abdy ostad hasan banna ave melat sq tehran
> iran
>
> best regards

> A.heidaree
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:06:28 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: fantastix (bfi website)
Comments: To: Madelyn Kelly <mkelly@peoplepc.com>
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Madelyn,

The only info I have on the Fantastix toy is the following:

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/GeomModels.htm

(Scroll down to "F")

A web search turned up the following:
http://www.moosetoys.com/fantastix.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Madelyn Kelly=20
  To: joemoore@cruzio.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:32 PM
  Subject: fantastix (bfi website)


  hello; i'm trying to find a building toy called "fantastix" and it =
showed up on the bfi website, but i can't find it it's the toy i'm =
looking for, or where i can 'see' it or buy it.  can you help?
  thanks


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2>Madelyn,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>The only info I =
have on the=20
Fantastix toy is the following:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/GeomModels.htm">http://www.=
cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/GeomModels.htm</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>(Scroll down to=20
"F")</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>A web search turned =
up the=20
following:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.moosetoys.com/fantastix.html">http://www.moosetoys.com=
/fantastix.html</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmkelly@peoplepc.com =
href=3D"mailto:mkelly@peoplepc.com">Madelyn=20
  Kelly</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 28, 2001 =
7:32=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> fantastix (bfi =
website)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DSystem size=3D2><STRONG>hello; i'm trying to find a =
building toy=20
  called "fantastix" and it showed up on the bfi website, but i can't =
find it=20
  it's the toy i'm looking for, or where i can 'see' it or buy it.&nbsp; =
can you=20
  help?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DSystem size=3D2><STRONG>thanks</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:14:06 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: Any Comments??
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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(Send comments to Johnny Vee)

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "JohnnyVee" <rjaime@cybertours.com>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 6:57 PM
Subject: Any Comments??


> http://www.shelterpub.com/_shelter/domebuilder%27s_blues.html
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Mar 2001 05:45:41 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] ABA vs the Federalist Society

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            29-MAR-2001  5:45
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 there are two (of what I consider to be) ommissions
 in this precis of the so-called Federalist Society,
 firstly that it in antifederlist in the sense
 of Hamilton's faction's predominating input for the Constitution.
    secondly, Ted Olson was the "unificator" of the famous Olson Salon,
 where media (WSJ's Bartley e.g.) and counsel (Bork e.g.) got-together
 to coordinate their Get Clinton agendae.

 thus quoth:
  The website for IDS is http://institutefordemocracy.org, if you want to
  find out more about the Federalist Society!

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Mar 2001 05:48:20 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Domebuilders Blues by George Oakes

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            29-MAR-2001  5:48
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow, what a great precis on the Way o'Construction!
    how about comparing that with Bucky's complaint
 about the unions, re the Dymaxion House?

  > http://www.shelterpub.com/_shelter/domebuilder%27s_blues.html

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:23:50 -0800
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: helium
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Try http://www.quantumaerostatics.com/qamenupage.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 12:13 PM
Subject: helium


> From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dickfischbeck@hotmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:25:49 -0000
>
> Jmr- There _is_ a geodesic lighter-than-air ship under construction at the
> moment, I am pretty sure. Joe M., do you remember seeing that site? I'll
try
> to find it.
>
> Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Mar 2001 00:40:51 -0700
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      The True face of the Bush administration
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http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/kopp010328.html

This is really what Bush is all about Brian. Your intellectual =
masturbations full of fantasies and even a Leader "La Roach" is horse =
crap.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/kopp010328.html">=
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/kopp010328.html</A></FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is really what Bush is all about =
Brian. Your=20
intellectual masturbations full of fantasies and even a Leader "La =
Roach" is=20
horse crap.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:21:26 -0800
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.princeton.edu
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Fwd: from math-teach
Comments: To: mathedcc@mathforum.com
In-Reply-To:  <5.0.1.4.2.20010330075539.02afacf0@mail.math.ohio-state.edu>
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Originally posted to math-teach, Math Forum.  One typo fixed.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Subject:      Integration of Math + IT:  a "good thing"?
Author:       Kirby Urner <urner@alumni.princeton.edu>
Date:         29 Mar 01 23:40:58 -0500 (EST)


Deirdre Collins <dcollins@victor.cc.ca.us> wrote:

> Integration of IT in mathematics teaching?  Is this simply a good=20
> thing in and of itself?

That depends of course.  Math phobia is often used as an umbrella=20
term applied to many brands of tech talk, and sometimes shop talks
such as we hear in IS departments are considered "mathematics" to
the layperson, as in "greek," as in "it's all greek to me".

In general, what we're seeking to encourage in students is a
willingness to keep tracking a discourse even if there's a lot of=20
technical content, because you've developed enough generic numeracy=20
that you're not going to disconnect just because someone sounds=20
like they're on the bridge in some Star Trek episode.

When I tell you the 'Tomb Raider' game series uses a quaternion=20
engine, it'd be nice if you had some basic comfort with the=20
quaternion-as-object and could even make the link to Hamilton.
A history-invested curriculum would spell out some of the competing
calculi and the eventual shakeout, to where we now go with the
Gibbs-Heaviside system in secondary schools (but it may not always
be this way, given advances by Hestenes & Co).

Likewise, when I tell you that files on your hard drive are accessed
by CHS =3D cylinder, head, sector address, except that large drives=20
put files "out of range" vis-a-vis an earlier specification, so=20
IT folks have provided a workaround/hack, plus a whole other mode of=20
sector addressing called LBA, you shouldn't just glaze over. =20
Because even if you don't know what a partition table is, you're=20
a quick study, having dispelled all math/numeracy phobias --=20
you have been "cured" of our culture's virulent inferiority=20
conditioning, which makes it "not OK" to understand "geek speak"
(even if you do, or could, if only your peers would allow it).

Looking from an overview perspective, what I'm finding is that the
computer science department is providing a more down-to-earth and
concrete form of mathematics which many students are finding=20
congenial, because the applications are never far away.  You learn
group theory, but in tandem with cryptography.  Now you see why we=20
care about Euler's totient or have an interest in what Gauss was=20
doing with all that modulo arithmetic jazz.  You actually need to=20
know some of that to understand how RSA works, and that's likely=20
part of your life everytime your web browser enters one of those=20
"secure session" pages (about when they're ready to accept your
credit card number).

The computer programming faculties are getting the better toys at
the secondary school level.  Math teachers seem content to be=20
ghettoized with their graphing calculators, while the equipment with
real power and, yes, sex appeal, is consigned to the AP comp sci=20
classes.  Combine comp sci with concrete mathematics, and you start
to widen the scope of what's covered in computer class, to the point
where you're doing a lot of the same stuff as the math classes are
doing -- but in a more interesting and applicable way.  So now it's
time to cut budget and trim fat.  What has to go?  You can see where
I'm heading:  the secondary school math teacher is in the process of
being marginalized, relegated to the sidelines, in preparation for
phase-out.

Of course this is an overly simplistic picture.  Even if there's=20
pressure in this direction, I'm seeing a gradual realization among
the math teaching community that they're not going to be using
graphing calculators forever.  Some are talking PDAs (PalmPilots and
such), but that's not a likely waystation enroute the full-fledged=20
computers and more "math + programming =3D basic numeracy" curricula.

In any case, I doubt that we'll have many more generations of=20
secondary school math teacher who don't also do some programming=20
as an everyday part of their lesson planning.  A math teacher who
doesn't program will be like a cowboy who doesn't ride a horse -- an
oxymoron, a contradiction in terms.  Whether this is a "good thing"
or not isn't maybe the most relevant question to ask.  More, it's
just a fact:  times change.  Whether "for the better" is a subjective
opinion, and many would answer in the negative, and yearn for a golden
age already long over, and not likely to return.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Mar 2001 06:47:51 -0800
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Climate Change: 2 urls for easy action

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            30-MAR-2001  6:47
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I'll try to right-up my own thing for the comment period, although
 it may be useless to formally submit such, since my concerns are more
 over the useless hype that most people consider to be the science
 of nuke-yellar power (philologically,
 I'd also wonder if "busing" became the favored useage, because
 of antisegregationists, and if "bussing" is related
 to seeing one's kids off at the bus-stop .-)
    I'd also like to challenge the quaint notion that
 TJ wrote the Declaration of Independence, although
 it is certainly his handwriting;
 what would it have been like, without Poor Richard to guide him?

 today's editorial on ANWR in the Wall St. J. failed to mention that
 the #1 developer "up" there is none-other than the self-announced,
 most green one on the planet, Beyond Petroleum, although
 I happen to agree with what I read of it, mostly.
    of course, their overarching religiosity is known as Free Trade,
 the buying cheap and selling dear with a caveat,
 which they actually have had the gumption, since Smith,
 to call "capitalism" -- praise-be
 to the Holy British East India Co./Empire!

 as I said to a local neghborhood council, last night,
 if you believe that purveyors of oil, given an opportunity
 to charge a lot more on the basis of covering the emmission
 of CO2, are not happy about the Kyoto Protocols,
 you may be right.

 thus quoth:
  If you would prefer to submit comments on your own,
  you should mention "Docket No. A-2000-04" and email
  them to A-and-R-docket@epa.gov or send them via
  regular mail to:

  EPA Air and Radiation Docket
  Attn: Docket No. A-2000-04
  Room M-1500 (Mail Code 6102)
  401 M Street, SW
  Washington, DC  20460

  The comment period is open through May 23, and we are
  hoping that an overwhelming response will either
  compel EPA to take action on global warming or lend
  weight to any subsequent legal actions.  It is
  important that we get as many people as possible to
  submit comments to the EPA docket.  So, please forward
  this notice to friends, relatives, and list serves to
  whom it may be of interest.

  For more information, please visit
  http://www.autopollution.org or http://www.icta.org.

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net.bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Mar 2001 03:42:29 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Running the economic engine not so fast

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            31-MAR-2001  3:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 ah, Shakespeare meets the 100th Monkey, but
 no-one to read it?

 thus quoth:
  instead fill their hours typing posts to the internet nobody reads or
 other
  unproductive activities.

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net.bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:13:14 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] WCC - Climate Change

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            31-MAR-2001  9:13
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it may be true that "most of the warming observed over the
  last 50 years is attributable to human activities2," but
 I don't know how the IPCC correlates their assumptions
 with such known elements of the Quaternary period,
 as "retrogressive vegetational succession," which is known
 from the studies of pollen in bogs, at the end of interglacials.
    I do know that the IPCC has terribly manhandled the data,
 with its tendnecy to ignore what the (yes, skimpier) data
 of the 19th c., for instance of glaciers.

 the most simple test of the hypothesis that I have found,
 relies just on a bit of spherical geometry (that is,
 accounting for the axial tilt and seasons,
 to get the angle of "high noon" at the pole and
 at the Ant/arctic circle, at various times of year.
    once that is done, the idea is to assess both the "hole"
 in the ozonosphere (as a matter of weather) and
 the "overall" glasshouse effect (as a differential one),
 sort of throwing them at each-other; see?

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:03:37 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      quadrivial pursuit, nearly final version

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            31-MAR-2001 10:03
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I wasn't going to release this first element (maybe last, two)
 of my proposed curriculum, but I'd left the floppy in a public drive,
 and it was not there upon my return, the next day.  so,
 here's the Geometry Leg, in broad outline ... well, nevermind,
 I'll give it a rest on the paranoia.  so, let me just give to you,
 the almost-final version of the general *quadrivium* flyer.

 http://www.xdrive.com/share/986087097320HqBWOUTEAWmz3YKfAQDH

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Mar 2001 19:33:28 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Dome For Sale
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>From the Classified Ads section of the current issue of Backwoods Home
magazine:

"GEODESIC DOME, GAINESVILLE, FLORIDA, organic farmstead paradise. 5 acres.
Huge barn, aluminum greenhouse, Fruit, extras $160,000. (trade?)
352-219-8328. FOODS4US.COM"

Ref: http://www.backwoodshome.com/classifieds.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/