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Date:         Sun, 1 Apr 2001 00:00:03 -0800
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Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

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 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
                           -----------------------
                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Apr 2001 06:34:16 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Bob Burkhardt <bobwb@CHANNEL1.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Gizmo electric car
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Something over 15 years ago there was a full page
ad for Honda in Time or some such magazine featuring
Bucky, a Honda and a geodesic dome.  He'd bought
a Honda at a Maine dealership and they invited him
to do an ad.  He thought that, of the cars he'd owned,
the Honda came in second only to the Dymaxion.  Maybe they're trying to
get to number one.

Bob

Dick Fischbeck wrote:

> I saw an _Insight_ Honda today. It says- gas/electric
> hybrid. I think it has a remarkable resemblence to the
> Dymaxion car.
>
> --- Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET> wrote:
> > A three wheel, one person, city commute vehicle, goes
> > up to 40 mph, with a 25 mile range, and costs $8650.
> >
> >
> > Neighborhood Electric Vehicle Company
> > http://www.nevco.com/gizmo.html
> >
> > Nice photo of a Gizmo
> > http://www.veva.bc.ca/rev/2000/9285018.htm
> >
> > TRANSPORTATION STATISTICS
> > http://www.nevco.com/stats.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Apr 2001 12:20:54 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Bucky Fuller Project
Comments: To: apang@stanford.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mr Alex Soojung-Kim Pang
Green Library West
Stanford University

Dear Sir,

Would you mind letting me know when you post more details about your
Buckminster Fuller Project?

Ref: http://www.stanford.edu/~apang/index.html

Thank you,

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Apr 2001 20:35:08 -0700
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: fantastix (bfi website)
Comments: To: Madelyn Kelly <mkelly@peoplepc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0BBB4.68818540"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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Madelyn,

It seems that BFI no longer sells that item.  It's not in their online =
catalog now.

And I now can't seem to find that item at the MooseToys site!?
http://www.moosetoys.com/=20

Only thing I can suggest is use a search engine--maybe you'll get lucky.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Madelyn Kelly=20
  To: Joe S Moore=20
  Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 11:20 PM
  Subject: Re: fantastix (bfi website)


  yikes, unfortunately that moosetoys site doesn't seem to be up and =
operating.  if it says in the bfi page that bfi sells fantastix, is =
there someone to call/contact at bfi about it?  i can't find a phone =
number...
  thanks again.
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Joe S Moore=20
    To: Madelyn Kelly=20
    Cc: _Geodesic=20
    Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:06 PM
    Subject: Re: fantastix (bfi website)


    Madelyn,

    The only info I have on the Fantastix toy is the following:

    http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/GeomModels.htm

    (Scroll down to "F")

    A web search turned up the following:
    http://www.moosetoys.com/fantastix.html

    Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
    Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: =
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Madelyn Kelly=20
      To: joemoore@cruzio.com=20
      Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:32 PM
      Subject: fantastix (bfi website)


      hello; i'm trying to find a building toy called "fantastix" and it =
showed up on the bfi website, but i can't find it it's the toy i'm =
looking for, or where i can 'see' it or buy it.  can you help?
      thanks


------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0BBB4.68818540
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2>Madelyn,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>It seems that BFI =
no longer=20
sells that item.&nbsp; It's not in their online catalog=20
now.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>And I now can't =
seem to find=20
that item at the MooseToys site!?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.moosetoys.com/">http://www.moosetoys.com/</A>=20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>Only thing I can =
suggest is use=20
a search engine--maybe you'll get lucky.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmkelly@peoplepc.com =
href=3D"mailto:mkelly@peoplepc.com">Madelyn=20
  Kelly</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">Joe S Moore</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 01, 2001 =
11:20=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: fantastix (bfi=20
website)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DSystem size=3D2><STRONG>yikes, unfortunately that =
moosetoys site=20
  doesn't seem to be up and operating.&nbsp; if it says in the bfi page =
that bfi=20
  sells fantastix, is there someone to call/contact at bfi about =
it?&nbsp; i=20
  can't find a phone number...</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DSystem size=3D2><STRONG>thanks =
again.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com =
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">Joe S=20
    Moore</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dmkelly@peoplepc.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:mkelly@peoplepc.com">Madelyn Kelly</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20
    title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
    href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU">_Geodesic</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 28, =
2001 11:06=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: fantastix (bfi=20
    website)</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D2>Madelyn,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>The only info I =
have on the=20
    Fantastix toy is the following:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/GeomModels.htm">http://www.=
cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/GeomModels.htm</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>(Scroll down to =

    "F")</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>A web search =
turned up the=20
    following:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.moosetoys.com/fantastix.html">http://www.moosetoys.com=
/fantastix.html</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r=20
    Fuller Virtual Institute: <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3Dmkelly@peoplepc.com =
href=3D"mailto:mkelly@peoplepc.com">Madelyn=20
      Kelly</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com=20
      href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 28, =
2001 7:32=20
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> fantastix (bfi=20
website)</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DSystem size=3D2><STRONG>hello; i'm trying to =
find a building=20
      toy called "fantastix" and it showed up on the bfi website, but i =
can't=20
      find it it's the toy i'm looking for, or where i can 'see' it or =
buy=20
      it.&nbsp; can you help?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DSystem =
size=3D2><STRONG>thanks</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
      =
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0BBB4.68818540--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Apr 2001 23:49:33 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: fantastix (bfi website)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

http://search.megaspider.com/XP.html?fantastix
See item 20 ??? Or maybe other too. I looked fast.
BillSF9c


"List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works"
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU> wrote:
>
> Madelyn,
>
> It seems that BFI no longer sells that item.  It's not in their online catalog now.
>
> And I now can't seem to find that item at the MooseToys site!?
> http://www.moosetoys.com/
>
> Only thing I can suggest is use a search engine--maybe you'll get lucky.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Madelyn Kelly
>   To: Joe S Moore
>   Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 11:20 PM
>   Subject: Re: fantastix (bfi website)
>
>
>   yikes, unfortunately that moosetoys site doesn't seem to be up and operating.  if it says in the bfi page that bfi sells fantastix, is there someone to call/contact at bfi about it?  i can't find a phone number...
>   thanks again.
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Joe S Moore
>     To: Madelyn Kelly
>     Cc: _Geodesic
>     Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:06 PM
>     Subject: Re: fantastix (bfi website)
>
>
>     Madelyn,
>
>     The only info I have on the Fantastix toy is the following:
>
>     http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/GeomModels.htm
>
>     (Scroll down to "F")
>
>     A web search turned up the following:
>     http://www.moosetoys.com/fantastix.html
>
>     Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>     Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: Madelyn Kelly
>       To: joemoore@cruzio.com
>       Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:32 PM
>       Subject: fantastix (bfi website)
>
>
>       hello; i'm trying to find a building toy called "fantastix" and it showed up on the bfi website, but i can't find it it's the toy i'm looking for, or where i can 'see' it or buy it.  can you help?
>       thanks
>
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:53:39 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      hubble
Comments: To: synergeo@eGroups.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Am I the last one to find out that Universe is
accelerating? I read about hubble's most recent, most
distant nova discovery at 10 billion lightyears out. I did
not know that dark matter and an ever-faster-moving
Universe were connected.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:04:03 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fuller Projection
Comments: To: gregor markowitz <gregor@hober.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gregor,

Take a look at my collection of map refs, especially "Grids":
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Man-Mass.htm

See also:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TetMapGeneral.htm

Prof Robert Gray is one person you should talk to about Fuller's
Projections; see:
http://rwgrayprojects.com/rbfnotes/maps/graymap1.html

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "gregor markowitz" <gregor@hober.com>
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:36 PM
Subject: Fuller Projection


> Joe,
>
> I am involved in a project to map GPS coordinates to a computer, and to a
> map, and to each other with various magnitudes of links. I keep thinking
> that the Fuller Projection of the Earth might be handy is such a pursuit,
> because it has points on a sphere. Each point could be mapped by angle
from
> the various points on the triangles, and relate to each other.
>
> Are there known GPS coordinates for the points which define Fuller's
> foldable map?
>
> Do you know of anyone working with such material?
>
> Do you think a correlation can be drawn between GPS and the Fuller
> Projection at all? Or is that better done with a simple sphere with the
> standard lat/long lines?
>
> Thanks, gregor
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:41:24 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: hubble

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            03-APR-2001 10:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            03-APR-2001  7:11
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   this is such another ad hoc effort to "save the theory"
   of Biggus Bangus.

   thus quoth:
    Am I the last one to find out that Universe is
    accelerating? I read about hubble's most recent, most
    distant nova discovery at 10 billion lightyears out. I did
    not know that dark matter and an ever-faster-moving
    Universe were connected.

   anyway, the most intereting theoretical development, I thought,
   was the mathematical transformation
   between quantum particles and black holes,
   wether or not such latter theoretical entities exist
   "in the large" (at the center of the Milky Way e.g.,
   a Giant Unweaned Baby ?-)

   --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:42:16 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Missile Defense

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            03-APR-2001 10:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            03-APR-2001  7:07
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   re the Nuclear Ryder Defense and Just War,
   just war is also intended to conclude as quickly as possible,
   with the fewest casualties, in peace, as with MacArthur --
   who was summarily dysmissed by the Truman Admin.,
   after waiting 3 weeks for State to negotiate with N.Korea
   for an end to the war; thus, the "MASHing" of Cabinet Warfare ensued
   into Vietnam, and seemingly into the Son George Admin.
      the "technical issue" of the ballistical NMD,
   is to bbe compared with those of using a qualitatively differnt
 technology
   to take out an offensive ballistical system,
   which was what the original SDI was about, when Reagan announced it,
   after "back-channel" talks with the SU bu my fearless leader, Lyn.
      both Gore and Bush refused to make this an issue,
   resorting to the bogus "High Frontier" (Heritage Fdn. etc.) approach
   of General what's-his-name ( a glorified anti-aircraft gun, or
   ineffectual Patriot !-)

   --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net

   thus quoth dks:
    Is building a perpetual-motion machine also "a technical issue"?

   thus quoth RASPhila:
    It's possible to argue that all modern warfare violates the Just War
    criteria. I saw this in several conscientious objector claims I read
 when
   I
    was draft counseling. My own reading of the theory is that, since it
    prohibits wars of aggression, it effectively prohibits all wars. (If
   there is
    no aggressor, nobody has to make a defensive response.) It hasn't
   functioned
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:49:58 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: hubble
In-Reply-To:  <200103311803.f2VI3bc08832@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
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Brian
There was no big bang?

Dick
=========================================================================
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
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Dick,

No big bang, no expanding universe--according to Bucky.  Just our receding
point of view as the universe continuously divides.  Imagine yourself at the
center of a gigantic high frequency VE that is constantly doubling its
frequency.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: hubble


> Brian
> There was no big bang?
>
> Dick
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:29:14 -0700
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      Re: hubble
In-Reply-To:  <001b01c0bd18$fa966940$310efbcf@oemcomputer>
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Joe, do you have the reference for dividing universe?
mark

> From: Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:06:55 -0700
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: hubble
>
> Dick,
>
> No big bang, no expanding universe--according to Bucky.  Just our receding
> point of view as the universe continuously divides.  Imagine yourself at the
> center of a gigantic high frequency VE that is constantly doubling its
> frequency.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:49 AM
> Subject: Re: hubble
>
>
>> Brian
>> There was no big bang?
>>
>> Dick
>>
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:16:45 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: hubble
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One moment please--searching external memory bank........

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Siegmund" <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: hubble


> Joe, do you have the reference for dividing universe?
> mark
>
> > From: Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
> > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> > <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:06:55 -0700
> > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> > Subject: Re: hubble
> >
> > Dick,
> >
> > No big bang, no expanding universe--according to Bucky.  Just our
receding
> > point of view as the universe continuously divides.  Imagine yourself at
the
> > center of a gigantic high frequency VE that is constantly doubling its
> > frequency.
> >
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
> > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> > To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: hubble
> >
> >
> >> Brian
> >> There was no big bang?
> >>
> >> Dick
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:19:15 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: hubble
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Scroll down to "Expanding":
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Ex-Ez.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Siegmund" <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: hubble


> Joe, do you have the reference for dividing universe?
> mark
>
> > From: Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
> > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> > <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:06:55 -0700
> > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> > Subject: Re: hubble
> >
> > Dick,
> >
> > No big bang, no expanding universe--according to Bucky.  Just our
receding
> > point of view as the universe continuously divides.  Imagine yourself at
the
> > center of a gigantic high frequency VE that is constantly doubling its
> > frequency.
> >
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
> > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> > To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: hubble
> >
> >
> >> Brian
> >> There was no big bang?
> >>
> >> Dick
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 04:25:32 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: hubble

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            04-APR-2001  4:25
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the "expanding Universe" is the one that assumes that
 the redshifts are caused (exclusively) by a doppler effect,
 that is by relative motion (away), but
 it's hardly a neccesary conclusion; is it?
    as for Bucky's "VE doubling it frequency,"
 I'm not sure that it contains a testable hypothesis, as of yet!

 thus quoth:
  > Joe, do you have the reference for dividing universe?

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 04:42:28 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Missile Defense

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            04-APR-2001  4:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 As President Franklin Roosevelt forewarned Prime Minister Winston
 Churchill, it was the President's intention to use the occasion of the
 close of the war, to bring to an end both the world's colonial systems, and
 also the rule of economic affairs among nations by those "British
 Eighteenth-Century methods" associated with the doctrine of Adam Smith.
 With Roosevelt's untimely death, the new Administration adopted Churchill's
 post-war perspectives, not those of President Roosevelt. We had won the
 war, but, to a large degree, under Truman, we had lost a greater, more
 durable part of what should have been the peace.

 Had the power of the United States been used in the manner implicit in
 Roosevelt's stated intention, the United States would not have committed
 the militarily unnecessary nuclear attacks on the civilian populations of
 Japan's Hiroshima and Nagasaki; and efforts like those merely typified by
 the Marshall Plan, would have resulted in a full-scale expansion of the
 agro-industrial potential of the U.S.A., that, to the purpose of building
 up the economies of the states newly liberated, by U.S. post-war might,
 from the tyrannies of Portuguese, Dutch, British, and French colonialism.

 To locate the historically crucial strategic importance of the Truman
 administration's adoption of an anti-Roosevelt, British strategic policy,
 look back to the internal U.S. political ironies associated with the
 transition into the wars of 1939-1945.

 Throughout most of the 1930s, the neo-Confederate tradition of the
 Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Calvin Coolidge Presidencies,
 remained stoutly embedded in the majority of the U.S. Supreme Court,
 echoing the Taney Court of the 1850s, and prefiguring the
 Rehnquist-Scalia-Thomas, neo-Confederate majority of today. The American
 Tory alliance of Aaron Burr's and Martin van Buren's Wall Street
 "shareholders" with the legacy of the Confederacy's slaveholders, has been
 the persisting curse of the U.S.'s internal life, since virtually the
 founding of our Federal republic. The issue, then, as now, was Roosevelt's
 defense of the Constitution's most fundamental principle, "the general
 welfare clause," against the forces, including a Federal Court majority,
 which sought to nullify that central principle of our constitutional law.

 It was only as the U.S.A. was being mobilized, for a second time, to
 support the Anglo-French Entente Cordiale in a new world war against
 London's early 1930s creation, the Nazi regime in Germany,[6] that
 Roosevelt was able to impose his 1936-1939 economic recovery and related
 policies with almost full effectiveness even in many matters of domestic
 policy. In this circumstance, a large ration of the Wall Street and related
 Establishment Anglophiles, the so-called Wall Street
 British-American-Canadian (BAC) establishment which had been built up
 around Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, gave Roosevelt the degree of
 support for the 1940-1945 war-time mobilization, which they had chiefly
 opposed, and even attempted to ruin in the President's peace-time efforts
 to the same social and economic goals.

 As the U.S. moved toward the post-war period, the question, "What would
 the post-war U.S. destiny be," depended upon Franklin Roosevelt's ability
 to carry through his post-war "American Century" policy, despite the
 Anglophile interests represented within the BAC establishment and behind
 Vice-President Harry S Truman. The continuation of Roosevelt's policy,
 depended upon his ability to extend the principle of the general welfare to
 the post-war world at large. Only if the war-time economic mobilization
 could be rapidly reoriented, without significant interruption, into
 building a world order based upon the same general-welfare principle, could
 the legacy of the American System of political-economy be efficiently
 upheld even inside the post-war U.S.A. itself. The take-down of the
 colonial system, in favor of independent nation-states participating in
 their own, U.S.-assisted, "New Deal"-like economic and social development,
 especially in basic economic infrastructure and productive technology, was
 the perspective upon which the U.S.'s actual achievement of a durable
 post-war peace depended.

 In short, the strategic perspective of the U.S., since the 1776
 Declaration of Independence, to the present day, has depended upon the
 projection of the principle of the general welfare, as a doctrine of
 international law, a doctrine of law enforced by a community of sovereign
 nation-states committed to that principle of their internal affairs and
 mutual relations. This was crucial for John Quincy Adams' and Abraham
 Lincoln's perspective for the sovereign states of the Americas, in their
 time. Since the change in the world's affairs brought about by the U.S.
 military and economic successes of 1861-1876, this notion of a community of
 principle, has been an essential, indispensable strategic outlook for U.S.
 global policy of practice. Every serious error in our foreign policy and
 strategy, has been the fruit of either simply the neglect, or even outright
 violation of that principle.

 --The Duke of Oil!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:10:17 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: hubble
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Joe- Is Bucky using the word _expand_ in some different
sense here, or is this earlier writing, or none of the
above?

Dick


341.00  In the most comprehensive picture of Universe,
<cut>
These nonsimultaneous enlargements bring about expanding
physical Universe. The expansion is verified by the
astronomers’ discovery of the red shifts in remote
galaxies.

And,

344.00  Universe expands through progressively
differentiating out and multiplying discrete
considerations.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:16:50 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: hubble
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Joe-This sounds like what you are talking about, no?

Dick

780.23
<cut>
Obviously, however, this could not be accomplished by any
one of them moving in only one direction__which is
humanity's way of thinking of motion-unless there were a
center of galaxy of Universe outwardly from which all
others move exactly and only radially, or unless all of
Universe and all of the galaxies and each and all phenomena
within them, including the smallest nuclear particle, are
either expanding systematically and simultaneously or are
shrinking systematically and simultaneously, all changing
in size at a rate that is just a bit faster than the speed
of light, with either the universal contraction or
universal expansion of all points in Universe producing the
same effect of uniform withdrawal from one another.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:24:21 -0700
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Subject:      Re: hubble
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And this:

986.757  What we observe sum-totally is not a uniformly
Expanding Universe, but a uniformly-contracting-magnitude
viewpoint of multiplication only by division of the finite
but non-unitarily-conceptual, eternally regenerative
Scenario Universe.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:16:26 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
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Dick,

This is the paragraph that I remembered.  But the other 2 quotes seem to
indicate that Bucky accepted the notion that at least parts of the universe
could be expanding--or contracting.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: hubble


> And this:
>
> 986.757  What we observe sum-totally is not a uniformly
> Expanding Universe, but a uniformly-contracting-magnitude
> viewpoint of multiplication only by division of the finite
> but non-unitarily-conceptual, eternally regenerative
> Scenario Universe.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:28:48 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Moving
Comments: To: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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I will be going offline today as I am moving to Tucson, AZ, from Aptos, CA,
this weekend.  As soon as I find a new internet provider & get back online I
will post my new email address.

The Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute (BFVI) web site will not change.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:16:37 -0700
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Joe,
Happy Trails would seem to be an appropriate song. . .
I know you have been looking forward to this move for a while.

May the heavy boxes and aching backs be replaced by splendid sunsets (I mean
sun-clipes) and warm desert breezes.

And, you continue to be a GENI hero.
Thanks,
Peter

Joe S Moore wrote:

> I will be going offline today as I am moving to Tucson, AZ, from Aptos, CA,
> this weekend.  As soon as I find a new internet provider & get back online I
> will post my new email address.
>
> The Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute (BFVI) web site will not change.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:49:23 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Moving
In-Reply-To:  <004401c0bd5f$1ab6bc20$8e0efbcf@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Best wishes on your move Joe.

Kirby

At 04:28 PM 4/4/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>I will be going offline today as I am moving to Tucson, AZ, from Aptos, CA,
>this weekend.  As soon as I find a new internet provider & get back online I
>will post my new email address.
>
>The Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute (BFVI) web site will not change.
>
>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:39:55 -0700
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      Re: Moving
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Mime-version: 1.0
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Joe, hope this reaches you before going off-line...

Best of--best of...to you!

Mark

> From: Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:28:48 -0700
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Moving
>
> I will be going offline today as I am moving to Tucson, AZ, from Aptos, CA,
> this weekend.  As soon as I find a new internet provider & get back online I
> will post my new email address.
>
> The Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute (BFVI) web site will not change.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:06:39 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: hubble

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-APR-2001  6:06
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 since no hhypothesis is offered in this say-sos,
 why note just consider thtem to be akin to "off of the cuff" stuff?

 --The Duke of Oil!
     http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:17:48 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Yucca Flats

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-APR-2001  6:17
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I have spontaneously started to cal l the UNSCEAR report of 2000
 on the historical effects of radiation,
 "Incident at Xanadudu," because
 it bears so-little resemblence to the 15 years o'hype
 that has been pedaled by the media about that place,
 where the reactor went kookoo!
    the same applies to the alleged dangers
 of the total quantity of radioactive waste that has been generated
 in the USA, for the whole era of Atoms for Peacefule Uses -- if
 you just don't use the EPA's "linear no-threshold" assumptions!

 (the proper term is, hormesis .-)

 thus qutoh:
  Having been many times to Yucca Mountain, I am flabbergasted. Yucca
  Mountain, itself, is a dormant volcano.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:05:08 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Missile Defense

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-APR-2001  8:05
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 2. EMP Effects
 As former Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger stated at the recent
 Wehrkunde meeting, his audience should not be taken in by the new Bush
 administration's dubious chatter about threats from so-called "rogue
 states." What the Bush administration actually intends, according to
 Kissinger, is a strategic conflict with Russia and China.[10] For once,
 Kissinger spoke truthfully; the Bush chatter about "rogue states," is
 nothing but the usual lying to be expected from Orwell's "Big Brother,"
 intended for the foolish ears of credulous dupes. Thus, in that case, the
 issue of ballistic missile defense is centered on the U.S. and Russia.

 In that case, the essential reality of Bush administration double-talk
 about ballistic missile defense, boils down to the role of submarine
 deployment in support of delivery of electro-magnetic-pulse (EMP) effects.
 In that light, the case of the sinking of Russia's Kursk submarine is a
 matter of notable consequence.

 "EMP effects," are not the only topic to be considered, but all of the
 issues of global strategic ballistic defense are typified by the "EMP"
 model.

 By its nature, a global sort of EMP effect involves stealth. Long-range
 ballistic missile delivery, or "space-based" delivery, are not indicated
 ruses. For both the U.S.A. and Russia as targets, short-range deployment of
 EMP warheads over the targetted territory, is indicated. In effect, this
 boils down to the use of submarines, in conjunction with the deployment of
 covertly situated "launch pods" in relevant submerged locations at the
 borders of the targetted nation.

 In actual strategic operations of such a type, the pods represent an "over
 the horizon" deployment controlled by, typically, nuclear missile
 submarines of strategic types.

 Such a strategic EMP attack, has the following type of application.

 --Le Front Liberacion d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:59:42 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Meat Testing

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            05-APR-2001  7:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 of course irradiation should not forgo testing!

 it seems as if always, the EPA's "LNT" paradigm muddies the water.
    irradiation of food (ussually by electronic means, although
 Who Knows, now, with the energy cartel in the saddle?) is striclty
 a superficial process, because that's where the biggest problem is,
 on the exposed surfaces of the meat.  in this repsect,
 it is less change-full than pasteurization,
 which requires flash-boiling of the whole liquid.

 (linear no-threshold is generally a false assumption,
 as can be seen with Hippocrates "poison is the dose," or
 a rather toxic trace requirement like molydenum.  it *should* be
 well-known per UV, alpha, beta & gamma radiation .-)

 --The Duke of Oil!
       http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:18:21 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Yucca Mountain Project

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            06-APR-2001 10:18
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 with respect to irradiation,
 the use of nuclear "waste" is the most inconvenient method.
    with respect to "DU" e.g.,
 the use of a breeder-reactor dysposes of the "wastefull" nomenclature!

 --The Duke of Oil!
 >        http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Apr 2001 08:15:06 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Yucca Flats Project

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            07-APR-2001  8:15
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow.  in today's LATimes Religion section,
 the feature is about "green coalitions," notably those
 that are around the World Council of Churches (with its dominance
 by the "bp" crowd of the Anglican Communion).
    "faith-based" is the operative word, therein, along
 with the promotion of the consensual science of the simulacra, but
 the real "leak," undated, is from Whitman's private memo to Bush:
 "For the first time, the world's religious communities have started
 to engage in the issue.  Their solutions vary widely, but
 the fervor of their focus was clear."

 the real meat of the matter is in Press Scty's words
 about "market-based incentives;" so,
 aren't those simply going to administered via the energy cartels?
    since the Times has never printed the truth about the "LNT" paradigm,
 they seem to be going-along with the Administration's floating
 of "nuke-yellar"  to be shot-down by these "new" e-fundies?

 also, pA13 has a short thing, "Senate OKs More Climate-Shift Funds."

 --The Duke of Oil!
   >        http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Apr 2001 17:51:51 -0500
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From:         "Winchester, David" <David.Winchester@COMPAQ.COM>
Subject:      intro
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

intro


                David W. Winchester
                Data Center
                COMPAQ  Industry Standard Server Group
                david.winchester@compaq.com     281-518-4121
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Apr 2001 07:10:24 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Nuclear waste disposal

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            08-APR-2001  7:10
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 even in hte (mainstream) "currents in the solid mantle" theory,
 the tectonic system is pushed by radioactive decay (although
 there is evidence also of fusion, going on,
 as the ratio of He3/He4 at the ridges).  most
 of this "waste" is quite a chore to get a decent exposure from,
 in any case, but you could probably innovate a ritual
 that'd do the trick -- just sleeping in a roomful of it ain't adequate!

 thus quoth:
 floor finally drifts to a subduction zone.  By then the radioactivity of
 the
 waste would probably be like that of uranium ore, i.e., not much.  The
 sediments and waste would get all churned up and most eventually would be
 carri!
  ed down into the Earth's mantle.  This method can't be used because of
 treaties that forbid disposing of waste at sea (maybe specific to nuclear

 --The Duke of Oil!
     >        http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Apr 2001 07:38:07 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      local elections!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            08-APR-2001  7:38
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 IMAGINE A POLYGLOT  nation, began the "Capital" column (on the front page)
 of the Wall St.J. (pre-April Fools), then asking,
 "Indonesia in '98 or California in '00?" - after the tortuous description
 of an "e-crisis."  It proceeded to describe the rtle
 of the IMF as collection-agency de facto, even listing some of the  70
 foreign firms that the Indonesia'd been finagled
 to contract in a newly privatized & deregulated regime, but which on the
 USA side included the Enrons and Edisons that, now, extract tons of flesh
 from California.  After Mgr. Freeman's part in ushering the bill-of-goods
 brought by experts from the deregulatory spasm of "Great" Britain/EU, it
 was really post-sale that we learn, Enron et al aren't in e-provision per
 se, but are "equity capital" entities of diverse portfolio & nominally
 Texan base.  "California, here They come!"
    For, what is the #1 "energy biz" on the Alaskan North Slope, but a
 British "beyond petroleum (tm)" conglomerate which had, with the merge unto
 Arco in April, become the USA's #1 dystributor of gasoline & motor-oil,
 with that spiffy ad-campaign going into May - when the prices almost
 doubled!  Two, its Amoco unit's LNG facility in Jamaica sells
 on the spot market in winter to the Northeast.  bp (tm), with Oxy, is the
 greenest diversified company, around!
     The "green-e" programme of Freeman, which he devised along with
 deregulation at Gorbachov's Green Cross
 (El Presidio, SF), I'd denounced 4 times at SM & LA Councils during my
 "Space'998" campaign; then, Nader also said
 in Our Times, that it was a "scam."  However, his was a bureaucratic take,
 based on the idea that it was marketeers, reselling "old renewables" at a
 price; since he "was not a member of a party that'd have me as a candidate
 [7.5],"
 he didn't know how pen-intimately it was tied to the Protocol of the
 Elders of Kyoto (sik), which Greens aver don't go,
 far enough!  It's probably true, in at least two respects, in this year
 ever-after "zero bp (tm)."
 Cui Bono (LE FRONT LIBERACION D'ENRON - Done Deal?)        Our polyglot
 franchize seems to be screaming to the world
 of Son/Sir George's terms of endearment, in laying the law of the cartels,
 down, of Free Trade (a.k.a. "imperialism," back before Teddy Roosevelt
 made nice to a fictively Last Godking of Gr.Britain).  Out of the other
 side of its mouth,
 Treasurer O'Neill (at the very first Cabinet meeting, according to the
 Journal) averred that "overall" warming is akin
 to a "global holocaust," virtually instituting what some so-called
 Republicans have, now,  averred might be the price
 of implimenting the Protocols (Journal, April 3) as "boosting electricity
 by 86.4% and other energy..accordingly."  Doh !?!
 (In case anyone says, Gore'd have been any different: Did y'hear the one
 about the "Teapot Dome 2" sale of the southern counterpart of the Naval
 Petroleum Reserve to Al, Jr.'s (and Sr.'s) prime sponsor, Occidental for a
 dime-on-a-dollar per "ReGo" -
 in '96, with plans to "wheel" the huge bubble o'gas that's in it, to
 California's dereg'd e-market?)  [BELMONT, Times, 10/31/99, pM6.]
 Incident at Xanadudu!           (The UNIPCC giveth, UNSCEAR taketh away?)
 Like (Sir) The Original, Son George seems
 to knoweth-not the meaning of the word, republic, alas.  Is it really,
 then, so surprizing that he's already caved in
 to the pressure, not to exploit the North Slope - and is any mention of
 "nuke-yellar" power expected to be shot-dwon,
 in favor of the purveyors of what are puported to be fossils?  At least,
 that's how the industry advertizes them.
    So, while the IPCC has promoted a virtual diocletian edict, faithfully
 debated in the fuzzy terms of the creators
 of coumputerized simulacra (the Rectal Dysplay Units), using the metaphor
 of Ahrrenius' 1896 "glass house" - which doesn't even do justice to the
 differentials of any such building  the 2000 UNSCEAR history on Chernobyl,
 may as well be of a stubbed toe in Hunzaland, compared to the hype from an
 "objective" media - taketh not my word on it!
 Megaton Gorrila (on a 'cmte.to re-elect a George').          See The SM
 Mirror, Feb.7, re 'WAND' [8] Corp.'s 4 then-current or
 recent directors on the G2Kcmte., and y'may as well include Chair O'Neil
 and (former Fed [$$$$]) Chair Volcker [$]; eh?
 Just, please, look at their Fall WAND Weview (wand.owg) with its feature,
 "Transcendental Destination" (sic), for its Band-Aids regarding
 geopolitique, teenaged violence and the "e-crisis."  Oh, "Vulcans" Rice and
 Rumsfeld were also on Board!
 $ Dir. Volcker's (sik) ennealpha (9-A star): SM's three bondratings.  $$
 Hooked on Phoenecia: "Wizard [Milken] Reinvests Himself," Times 9/7/98.
 [800/453-4108]
 $$$  The 527 Cmtes. pre-enablement of the Financial Services Modernization
 Act o'9 versus a Voting Rights Clarification Act (HR-4961; platform,
 www.larouchein2004.com.)
 $$$$ With an unconstitutional Federal Reserve Act of '13 (nor fully
 ratified), a "central bank" was modelled upon the Federal Reserve Board -
 of England!  In his campaign
 for the Chair, Paul Volcker went to London to lobby the Royal Inst. for
 Intl. Affairs, with the wild-and-crazy phrase, "controlled disintegration
 of the economy;"  Relation Especial?
 7.5. E.g., Nader didn't run in primaries as a Dem "since '84, '88, '92,
 '96" (Daily News), til he was annointed by 'a party I'd thus not join,
 having mini-Me as the candidate!'
 8. The Pentagon Papers e.g.: the weave, redacted by Elsberg and Russo of
 the woof; the advice came from WAND; it was the President's weft, esp.
 Nixon - no bark, all byte?
 NB: "No-class Deal: A Tale of Steve's Two Hats," Mar.16, laweekly.com; Mr.
 Soboroff, did you accidentally expose the Mayor's reformasi?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:54:36 +0000
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From:         SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      Sanyo Electric's GENESIS PROJECT
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What happened to Sanyo Electric's GENESIS PROJECT? This is the
only material found on the internet about it.

THE GENESIS PROJECT
(excerpt from ATIP97.030 : The Solar Cell Industry in Japan:
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/japan/www/atip/public/atip.reports.97/atip97.030r.html)

The Genesis Project is the brainchild of Dr. Yukinori Kuwano, Sanyo
director and general manager of the Group's R&D Headquarters. A synopsis
of his thoughts follow:

The major drawback of solar cells is their inability to generate power
at night, and that their output fluctuates dramatically depending
on the
sunlight conditions. These problems give some concern to those
who feel
that solar energy is unstable as a prime-energy source.

A Global Energy Network Equipped with Solar cells and International
Superconductor grids (GENESIS) would resolve these problems. A
look at
earth from space shows that rainy and cloudy areas cover less
than 30%
of the total land mass, and that it is always daylight on one
side of
the globe. A worldwide PV power generating system connected by
superconducting cables with no transmission losses (until these are
available, high-voltage DC transmission technology could be used) would
enable daylight areas to provide clean solar energy
around-the-clock to
those areas where it is night, rainy or cloudy.

Forecasts are that in the year 2000, energy demands will be the
equivalent of 14 billion barrels of crude oil per year. To meet this
requirement, 800 km square of solar cells would be needed,
assuming a
conversion efficiency of 10%. Barely 4% of the world's desert
area would
suffice.

Implementing this plan is not so unrealistic. When a large number of
people install PV  power generation systems in their homes and in
factories, and these are connected to the electric power grid,
all of
Japan will be made into a network through PV power generation power
lines. If the same pattern is repeated in several countries, PV power
generation networks will be created in each of these countries. Country
networks could then be connected.

For example, South Korea and Japan (Kyushu) are separated by
200km -
their transmission lines could be connected. In Europe, electric power
grids of some countries are already interconnected. As a next
step, a
plan called "Silk Road GENESIS has been proposed by the Tokyu
Construction Co., Ltd. to construct PV power generating systems along
the ancient trade road. It will include Sanyo and four other companies.
The project envisages the building of a total of 139 100,000KW solar
plants between 2001 and 2030. The combined power generation
capacity is
expected to reach 100 million kw.

Between 1996 and 2020, when the market size reaches between
10,000 MW
and 100,000mW per year and integrated solar cell module cost
drops to
$1/W or less, the use of solar cells will find wider application in
private homes, apartment blocks, factories, industrial
facilities, and
power stations. Finally, sometime after 2020, the Genesis Project
- a
global solar power network - might be realized.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Apr 2001 19:24:13 -0400
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From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Solar
Comments: To: SpaceshipEarth@mail.com
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SpaceshipEarth@mail.com wrote:
> What happened to Sanyo Electric's GENESIS PROJECT? This is the
> only material found on the internet about it.
>
> THE GENESIS PROJECT
> (excerpt from ATIP97.030 : The Solar Cell Industry in Japan:

Misc that may be of interest:
Courtesy of
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dome

Subject:  Re: Solar Shingles

                 >>the solar shingle creators that I had wanted!!! :>)
                 > So, speak up, man! Where are these? Who makes them?
                 > Ron

                 Here are a few of the links, and a peek at the shingles.
                 All via the link Kevin sent just previously.  There was                  sooo much more...
                 BillSF9c

                 http://ianrwww.unl.edu/pubs/soil/g831.htm

                 http://www.greenindustry.com/aa/1998/1098/1098sts.asp

                 http://www.eren.doe.gov/pv/award.html ...shingles

                 Flexible solar shingles
                 http://www.popsci.com/scitech/news/010405.s.html

                 http://www.ovonics.com/uninews/usscjun2_1997.html

                 info@uni-solar.com

                 http://www.eren.doe.gov/millionroofs/grantin.html
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
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Date:         Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:34:06 +0000
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From:         SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      doubling the capacity of electrical generation
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I realize this statement is made "in theory," but how accurate is
this figure about doubling the capacity of electrical generation?
Is this 50% standby capacity an overestimate? And what would be
the increased amount of usable energy after transmission losses
and other factors were figured in? Thank you for any help!

'This now feasible, intercontinental network would integrate
America, Asia and Europe, and integrate the night-and-day,
spherically shadow-and-light zones of Planet Earth. And this
would occasion the 24-hour use of the now only fifty per cent of
the time used world-around standby generator capacity, whose
fifty per cent unused capacities heretofore were mandatorily
required only for peak-load servicing of local non-interconnected
energy users. Such intercontinental network integration would
overnight double the already-installed and in-use, electric power
generating capacity of our Planet.' -- Buckminster Fuller
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:11:45 +0000
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Subject:      Global Energy Network Equipped with Solar Cells and International
              Superconductor Grids
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The GENESIS project was apparently proposed by Sanyo corporation
in the early to mid '90s. There is little mention of it on the
internet. The obvious flaw in this is its overspecialization with
solar cells, rather than the complete range of renewable energy
sources. If this was presented as a comprehensive plan to tap
into all the world's renewable energy sources, it would have a
lot more merit and support. As presented, it's grossly
overspecialized. Here is a compilation of excerpts on it.

Sanyo Electric Co's GENESIS PROJECT: Global Energy Network
Equipped with Solar Cells and International Superconductor Grids

Sanyo commercialized the world's first amorphous silicon solar
cells in 1980 and maintains a leading position in the field of
solar power generation, and in the development of superconductive
materials such as high-temperature superconductors. With its
position in these fields, Sanyo Electric is prepared
to contribute to the creation of a global energy network,
providing pollution-free power on a global scale.

Sanyo's GENESIS project is a vision to establish large-scale
solar power generators in the world's deserts and plains, and
wherever feasible, and link them with superconductor grids to
satisfy all human energy requirements. Superconductor storage
facilities could be used to store surplus energy for later use.
The system is designed to satisfy global energy requirements
without causing air pollution and
waste related environmental problems caused by current electrical
generating systems.

By distributing solar cells over the Earth and combining them
with a network of high-temperature superconducting power
transmission lines, a worldwide photovoltaic energy system can
provide the world with a stable supply of electricity generated
entirely by solar cells. A system using solar cells with a
conversion efficiency of 10% and an area of about 800 km x 800 km
(640,000 square km) could amply generate the equivalent energy
drawn from 14 billion kiloliters of crude oil, or about the same
amount of electrical energy estimated to be used worldwide in the
year 2000. This area represents only about 4% of the world's
total desert area.

Steps toward the actualization of this plan were taken with
Sanyo's presentation of an intermediate 'Halfway GENESIS' plan,
also known as New Energy World System (NEWS). To maximize the
efficiency of solar energy, this system would be composed of
hydrogen energy generation and power transmission facilities, and
would supply electric power to the entire planet. It has been
calculated that 30% of the world's total energy requirements
could be met early in the next century with this system.

The following is an excerpt from ATIP97.030 : The Solar Cell
Industry in Japan:
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/japan/www/atip/public/atip.reports.97/atip97.030r.html

THE GENESIS PROJECT

The Genesis Project is the brainchild of Dr. Yukinori Kuwano, Sanyo
director and general manager of the Group's R&D Headquarters. A synopsis
of his thoughts follow:

The major drawback of solar cells is their inability to generate power
at night, and that their output fluctuates dramatically depending
on the
sunlight conditions. These problems give some concern to those
who feel
that solar energy is unstable as a prime-energy source.

A Global Energy Network Equipped with Solar cells and International
Superconductor grids (GENESIS) would resolve these problems. A
look at
earth from space shows that rainy and cloudy areas cover less
than 30%
of the total land mass, and that it is always daylight on one
side of
the globe. A worldwide PV power generating system connected by
superconducting cables with no transmission losses (until these are
available, high-voltage DC transmission technology could be used) would
enable daylight areas to provide clean solar energy
around-the-clock to
those areas where it is night, rainy or cloudy.

Forecasts are that in the year 2000, energy demands will be the
equivalent of 14 billion barrels of crude oil per year. To meet this
requirement, 800 km square of solar cells would be needed,
assuming a
conversion efficiency of 10%. Barely 4% of the world's desert
area would
suffice.

Implementing this plan is not so unrealistic. When a large number of
people install PV  power generation systems in their homes and in
factories, and these are connected to the electric power grid,
all of
Japan will be made into a network through PV power generation power
lines. If the same pattern is repeated in several countries, PV power
generation networks will be created in each of these countries. Country
networks could then be connected.

For example, South Korea and Japan (Kyushu) are separated by
200km -
their transmission lines could be connected. In Europe, electric power
grids of some countries are already interconnected. As a next
step, a
plan called "Silk Road GENESIS has been proposed by the Tokyu
Construction Co., Ltd. to construct PV power generating systems along
the ancient trade road. It will include Sanyo and four other companies.
The project envisages the building of a total of 139 100,000 KW solar
plants between 2001 and 2030. The combined power generation
capacity is
expected to reach 100 million kw.

Between 1996 and 2020, when the market size reaches between
10,000 MW
and 100,000 MW per year and integrated solar cell module cost
drops to
$1/W or less, the use of solar cells will find wider application in
private homes, apartment blocks, factories, industrial
facilities, and
power stations. Finally, sometime after 2020, the Genesis Project
- a
global solar power network - might be realized.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:27:32 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Re: hubble

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            09-APR-2001 11:27
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 " Not sure what the '"save the theory" of Biggus Bangus' is about. There
 is
  no counter evidence, and absolutely compelling evidence."

 those seem to be categorical (or fundamentalist) statements;
 is it truly thus "absolutely no counter"
 to the vaious ad-hocs of the gravitational theory
 of general relativity (that is,
 assuming that all of the other theoretical forces
 do not operate, at all, in the large,
 that "space" is synonymous with the no-particles land
 of seething nothing between them etc.) ??

 now, there is not just inflation, but hyperinflation --
 which at least matches the reality of Greenspan's printing presses,
 since the December before last (why is it,
 they only talk about interest-rates, and
 not the gigantic trade-deficit & the other inflationary stuff,
 of which hte "e-crisi" is just an example of?)

 --Chairman George!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:31:53 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Global Energy Network Equipped with Solar Cells and Internati

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            09-APR-2001 11:31
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 what about fossils?
    are fossils renewable, and how does one make one?...
 does "petroleum" come from rocks, or *is* it rocks, or
 does it depend upn one's shared meaning for "is" ??

 thus quoth:
  internet. The obvious flaw in this is its overspecialization with
  solar cells, rather than the complete range of renewable energy

 --Chairman George!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:42:03 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Climate timebomb ready to explode under Bush/ and

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            09-APR-2001 12:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow; your posting was a perfect example of the absolute equation
 of "climate a-changing" (as always) with "overall warming" --
 with the Clinton Admin. obviously signing-on to that paradigm, and
 the Bush, Again Admin. perfectly happy to have it blatted out, there,
 to polarize the situation for its clientele, the ones
 that "own" the energy!

 I have seen (for the most part) 2 kinds of reactions
 to the problem of climate change, as mediated (in the most literate sense)
 by hte UNIPCC (it's always good to recall the UN, ecxpecially since
 hte IMF, World Bank etc. are sub-UN agencies; eh?)
    firstly, they just don't know and/or care about it.  secondly,
 as promoted by "Time" et al with the usual facts and figures,
 with an o'erwhelming reliance on computerized simulacra that,
 basically, determine nothing ... they devoutly believe,
 as the National Council of churches'd wish them to do so,
 apparently.  so, if some fundie evangel otherwise considers that
 "the end of time" is a-comin', what's wrong with his paradigm?

 please, ask some computer-scientist (a-hem?)
 to combine the models of the "hole" in the ozonosphere
 with that of the "global" warming, in any way possible, and
 see what "happens" in there (where it's so warm, dark & cozy !-)

 thus quoth:
  The warnings are there on almost every page. Cities will suffer from water=2
  shortages and stifling summers; mountain resorts which rely on skiing will=2
  see the snows retreat upwards by as much 1,000ft (300m) from their present=2
  base at 3,000ft. Tropical diseases, such as dengue, will spread in southern=
  coastal areas as the sea rises and inundates wetlands to create the ideal=20
  breeding ground for the insects that carry it.=20
 thus quoth:
  While it is possible that Dr Janetos only meets people who are already=20
  persuaded about climate change, rather than the sceptics, the latter seem an
  =20
  increasingly embattled group, even within America.=20

  Yesterday, Robert Watson, chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
  =20
  Change (IPCC) =AD the body of about 700 scientists who examine climate chang
  e =AD=20
  dismissed any suggestion that there was a significant split among scientists
  =20
  over whether climate change is occurring, and whether humans are causing it.
  =20
  He said: "It's not even 80-20 or 90-10 [in percentage terms]. I personally=2
  believe it's something like 98-2 or 99-1.=20

  "There's disagreement over specific areas ... but on a broad level it's well
  =20
  over 90 per cent," he said after a meeting of IPCC experts in Kenya. Perhaps
  =20
  only a few scientists are not convinced by the need to arrest man's=20
  involvement in climate change, but it only takes one US president to stall=2
  proceedings.=20

 --Le Front Liberation d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:12:12 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Just give Chinese the plane already?
In-Reply-To:  <3AD1A6FD.69C51FAB@mail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Yeah, that maybe sounds like a hair-brained idea, but
the media pundits I've been hearing on the radio are
wrong to think it's a simple matter to reverse engineer
a bunch of hardware with only some of the operator
manuals on CD or whatever.

It'd become a conversation piece over time, and curiousity
would likely lead Chinese experts to ask for more data
about this or that system -- from USA-based commercial
firms who already sell encryption devices to the Chinese
military (Motorola etc.).

Maybe the USA military doesn't like the idea so much, but
for the international climate to remain profitable and
conducive to business, there's every reason to keep all
sides "in the money" i.e. in the know (happy and hopeful
and with good prospects for a better tomorrow -- and of
course that goes for the folks in Formosa as much as
anyone).

Capitalists are always getting caught with their pants
down in retrospect, "selling to both sides" in some
historical period leading up to a major war.  But was a
war inevitable?  In some cases they're quite honestly
trying (ineptly) to keep a semblance of balance/deterrance
in the picture, by putting more weapons first in one pan,
and then the other.  Washington DC think tankers play
this game all the time, tilting first towards Iraq, then
Iran -- with Kurds ever caught in the middle (that was
before the Desert Storm chapter -- although things still
haven't improved for the Kurds much, as Turkey is in
NATO and is of course a major weaponry client).

In any case, there's no good business reason to keep
the world in some thralldom while USAers burn up the
atmosphere driving their SUV gas hogs.  That "last and
only superpower" jazz is for home consumption only --
keeps 'em swelled and in the mood to go mall hopping.
But once you get away from the politicians and their
pumped up pseudo-patriotism, the USA is just another
client state, deeply in debt (the surplus is a drop in
the bucket ya know) and as locked into the global game
as they come (no way to cut imports of those tech-toys
from the Far East, and hence the trade deficit -- there'd
be mass revolt).

The plane has been damaged quite a bit and it's not like
some hero is going to fly the thing out of there.  It'll
be a pain in the butt to transport it back to the hanger.

I think it'd be a confidence building measure to leave
the piece of junk behind.  After all, we gave the Russians
a U2 when it counted (I know, I know, some will dispute
this version of events... -- but don't tell me the
Russians "shot it down" (anyone who has studied that
event in any depth knows by now that that's a bogus
account)).

Anyway, it probably won't happen.  But I think it should
be a card on the table.  It's the _crew_ that doesn't want
to spend too many more days in China.  The _airplane_
doesn't care, and the NSA whizzers who think they're
going to have a global monopoly on cool gadgets forever
are living in a dream world, not the real world.  We might
as well face the future:  we all get to play with high tech
gear, or the imbalance will be too great over the long
haul to keep the scenario from disintegrating.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:16:03 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Just give Chinese the plane already?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            09-APR-2001 13:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I thought that it was the Prozac (tm).
    I know, we're supposed to know,
 whose client-state we are supposed t'be;
 GRUNCH?...  I personally favor Obnoxico at this time,
 for clear & present reasons!

 thus quoth:
  pumped up pseudo-patriotism, the USA is just another
  client state, deeply in debt (the surplus is a drop in
  the bucket ya know) and as locked into the global game
  as they come (no way to cut imports of those tech-toys
  from the Far East, and hence the trade deficit -- there'd

 --The Duke of Enron!
   http;//www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:32:11 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      the Moon (atomic) heirarchy

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            09-APR-2001 13:32
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 this was in the previous issue of 21st C. Science&Technology,
 a thoruoghly "platonic" model of the atoms,
 in a sort of hierarchy of the shapes.  I first saw the Moon model
 in a copy of Fusion or 21st C. at the BFI in Culver City,
 in Bucky's library.  of course,
 it really helps to get Hecht's articles on his experiments
 in showing & improving the Amperian electrodynamics of Weber,
 to get a fuller flavor of the uniquely verifiable aspect of it.

 http://21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/moon_nuc.html

 --The Duke of Enron!
 >  http;//www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Apr 2001 05:55:00 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Fwd: Re: trig
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Shigeo Maruyama <maruyama@photon.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
wrote:
> Reply-to: "Shigeo Maruyama"
> <maruyama@photon.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
> From: "Shigeo Maruyama" <maruyama@photon.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
> To: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: trig
> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 11:27:13 +0900
> Organization: The University of Tokyo
>
> Dear Dick:
>
> No. What is spherical trigonometry ? Is it a special
> coordinate
> system?
>
> Shigeo Maruyama
> *********************************************************
> Shigeo Maruyama, Associate Professor
> Dept. of Mechanical Engineering, The University of Tokyo
> 7-3-1 Hongo, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo 113-8656, JAPAN
> TEL: +81-3-5841-6421   TEL&FAX: +81-3-5800-6983
> E-MAIL: maruyama@photon.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> WWW: http://www.photon.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~maruyama/
> *********************************************************
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
> To: <maruyama@photon.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 4:03 AM
> Subject: trig
>
>
> > Hello- I am a student of Bucky Fuller and I saw your
> web
> > site. Have you used spherical trigonometry instead of
> > cartesian coordinates?
> >
> > Dick Fischbeck
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:31:01 -0700
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      Re: intro
In-Reply-To:  <C3A0290B5F6AD311AE9500508B5C36BB0588A533@exchou-ca1401.cca.cpqcorp.net>
Mime-version: 1.0
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Rick,

Some years ago, Southern California Edison and I believe it was Texas
Instruments developed in a joint venture, a new kind of solar cell
application (which is being tested on a number of consumers homes)--the
cells are produced in "sheets" that can then be lain upon the roof.

The  the new cell production technology has supposedly brought the cost down
dramatically per watt (well below the cost of commercially generated
power)--and this morning I received from Belize a notice about a new kind of
solar cell that can be applied as "roof shingles"--I mistakenly deleted the
post.

So I encourage you to keep your dream of a solar-powered home--help is on
the way!

mark

> From: "Winchester, David" <David.Winchester@COMPAQ.COM>
> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 17:51:51 -0500
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: intro
>
> intro
>
>
> David W. Winchester
> Data Center
> COMPAQ  Industry Standard Server Group
> david.winchester@compaq.com     281-518-4121
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Apr 2001 05:34:20 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Yucca Mountain Project

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            10-APR-2001  5:34
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, Parump is home to the biggest-wattage Green/Libertarian/Ghost-
 dancer around (in the Western states?), Art Bell, although
 I don't recall whether he really hates nuke-yeller as much
 as Ms. Streets "middle & upper classes who don't mine much coal"
 on their own behalf!
    thanks for the "cost/benefit" stuff, KS, on LNT and "fossils" --
 but can't we devize a terminology that is not that of the industry,
 itself, and its concierge in the Executive Mansion ... and
 in hte Old Naval Office ... and in the "Republican" party ... and
 at the 'WAND' Corp.??

 just to be picqayune,
 linear no-threshold's assumption applies
 to the realm of no data, in graphical terms
 "below" the last experimental data-point (or
 to the left, as the case could be),
 in the plot of "exposure versus effect."  the caveat is that,
 as far as I know, nothing has ever been found
 for which it is true (and in contradysinction
 to Hippocrates' principle o'poisons), although there may be such
 to be found.
    in particular, reams of data are in on radiation,
 including "ionizing" radiation, and LNT certainly does not hold
 for it.  obviously, it doesn't apply to UV.  less apparently,
 from the ridiculous precautions for Smog Alerts
 -- don't go running on the hottes muggiest afternoons --
 it doesn't apply to ozone, that "indicator" that is used
 by the AQMD, here, and the EPA et al (ridiculous, because
 the worst pollution is *still* going to be inside o'doors,
 in general).

 thus quoth:
  technologies; and nuclear fusion. There is no silver bullet in this array
  nor are there any that we can be confident we can do without."

  Could someone try to explain why fears about nuclear power continue to
 have
  such power with so many? Much of the explanation is, of course, that
 people
  don't drive nuclear powered automobiles. There are also class issues,
 that

 whoah; start with laptops, please, but
 get out those old leaden undergarments!

 --Le Duke d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Apr 2001 05:40:09 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Fwd: Re: trig

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            10-APR-2001  5:40
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 what in Hell is this supposed to be about?
    I presume that you meant spherical *coordinates*,
 as spherical trig only applie to the surface.

 there are also tripolar coordinates (also determining a point
 in good, ol'3-space); sherical ones are bipolar, of course
 -- duh?

  > From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
  > To: <maruyama@photon.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
  > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 4:03 AM
  > Subject: trig
  >
  >
  > > Hello- I am a student of Bucky Fuller and I saw your
  > web
  > > site. Have you used spherical trigonometry instead of

 >--Le Duke d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:00:41 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] fwd:  Statement of Green Party

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            11-APR-2001  7:00
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 >I thought that it was somewhat moot,
 >that it'd be struckdown in the courts per "free speech;"
 >n'est-ce pas?
 >        as far as I have seen,
 >the main things to fight, now, in broader regards,
 >is the appointment of any Supreme Court Justices, and
 >that of Ted Olson, the holder-of-court
 >of the infamous Olson Salon (a.k.a. the Get Clinton Task Force,
 >with a lot of hold-overs fromn the Get Lyn one!)
 >
 >locally, Council seems to be almost banning automobiles de facto,
 >by creating a weird gridlock in our successful downtown
 >(3rd St. Promenade), with the ideal of getting folks
 >onto our Big Blue Buses (and regional transit a-coming).  of course,
 >if the price of gasoline gets to $3 per gallon,
 >that'll work -- "market-based incentives"
 >per the NCC "Green Coalition," yahoo.

 thus quoth:
       Party          Number of votes in             % of votes in
                   favor of McCain-Feingold     favor of McCain-Feingold

     Democrats
   Republicans
        Greens

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:11:47 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Risk

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            11-APR-2001  7:11
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 please refer to the UNSCEAR (2000) report on Chernobyl,
 which I gather is historically-grounded, and rather shocking
 in an anticlimactic way.  that is to say,
 just because there was a "Chernobyl-level meltdown,"
 doesn't mean that nuclear power is unsafe; eh?
    apparently, there was some juvenile thyroid cancer, but
 there is also a very large "screening effect" associated with that
 (accidental deaths reveal lots of "occult" tumors
 in children, not correlated to any particular factor).

 thus quoth:
  I don't live next to a nuclear power plant  and I don't eat pork tartare.

 I wouldn't mind living next to one, and
 am trying to overturn Santa Monica's virtual Nuke-free Zone;
 it's an uphill trek!

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 >>http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:20:45 -0700
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From:         Andy and Reagan <thomson@BLAZE.CA>
Subject:      synergetics-literate engineers
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I'm new to this list and I'm trying to find a new structural eng. grad =
to work with on architectural projects which incorporate 'geodesic' =
structure. Most of my experiments to date have been small-scale timber =
projects, but as scale increases, so does liability and =
beurocracy..........anyone out there?


Andy and Reagan Thomson
thomson@blaze.ca
http://www2.blaze.ca/~thomson


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#fff8e0>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm new to</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> this list=20
and I'm trying to find a new structural eng. grad to work with on =
architectural=20
projects which incorporate 'geodesic' structure. Most of my experiments =
to date=20
have been small-scale timber projects, but as scale increases, so does =
liability=20
and beurocracy..........anyone out there?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andy and Reagan Thomson<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:thomson@blaze.ca">thomson@blaze.ca</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www2.blaze.ca/~thomson">http://www2.blaze.ca/~thomson</A><=
BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C0C29A.FA84C050--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:27:14 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Yucca Mountain Project

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            12-APR-2001 11:27
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that was somewhat hilarious, but are you sure that
 you just didn't want to stay in Idaho?
    I'm not too sure about you rimplication of dyshonesty, although
 it may have been one o'those matters of national security.  anyway,
 congratulation on your little white form of it!
    I also have to wonder about your scenario,
 that nuclear power *means* a police-state de facto, although
 we may be in for such with Sir George's reincarnation
 (see "The End of History" chapter of the Bush book,
 about his "Administrative Leviathan," please).

 of course, your insistence that this particular technology
 cannot be of avail to "make an honest profit," no-doubt is premised
 upon decades of the linear no-threshold paradigm
 of the EPA et al, concerning every thing that could touch one;
 is that not, so?

 have you looked at the 2000 UNSCEAR report on Chernobyl,
 which is universally considered to have been the worst accident,
 so far, I guess?

 thus quoth:
  You wouldn't have wanted a guy like me working in the Clinch River Fast
  Sodium Loop Breeder Reactor plant. But then, consider, you wouldn't want
  guys like _them_ working there, either!

 by the way,
 I'm not sure if it's the same technique, but
 the recently developed high-temperature sodium gas reactors
 are quite failsafe.  the only problem with breeders, is that
 they really make nuclear power available *en masse*.

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:40:31 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-p] Yucca Mountain Project

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            12-APR-2001 13:40
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oh, also,
 they'd tend to "deplete" that other market for DU
 (really good paperweights !-)

  --The Duke of Oil!
 >  http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Apr 2001 06:19:40 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] IMF/WB/strucural adjustment

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-APR-2001  6:19
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it's awful that these organizations are not keyed-in
 as the sub-UN agencies that they are, as well
 as the fiscal realities of the General Assembly
 --the creators of the day-to-day legislation,
 which *can* be vetoed by 2 "former" colonial powers (and
 a nascent one, if you wish to charterize the USA in that way)--
 and its predominating political entity (voting bloc; notice that
 most of the legislation is *not* vetoed by the Security Council,
 please !-)
    that is again to say,
 the UN is not what it was cracked-up to be by FDR, because
 of the gang surrounding Truman, to begin with,
 of strictly anglo-american tendency, nore in line
 with Churchill's "18th C. methods" that FDR said wuodn't be allowed
 in the postwar world.

 thus quoth:
   SEMINAR SERIES
   Structural Adjustment: Twenty Years is Enough?
   DATES: 23-26 April, 2001

   STRATEGY SESSION:
   Friday, April 27, 2001

   LOCATION: Resources for the Future Conference Center
   1616 P Street NW
   Washington, DC

  SPONSORING ORGANIZATIONS: Globalization Challenge Initiative(US),
  the Integrated Social Development Centre (Ghana), the Initiative for
  Policy Dialogue(US), Centre for Private and Public Cooperation
  (Nigeria) and ActionAid (US, Africa, Asia)
 ...
  FOR UPDATES ON SEMINAR AGENDA SEE WEBSITES:
  http://WWW.CHALLENGEGLOBALIZATION.ORG,
  http://WWW.ACTIONAID.ORG OR http://WWW.BICUSA.ORG

  TO REGISTER FOR THE CONFERENCE EMAIL: global.challenge@juno.com
  Tel:  301 270 1000; Fax: 301 270 3600; Post: 7000B Carroll Avenue,
  Takoma Park, MD 20912

   ==============================================
   50 Years Is Enough Network           http://www.50years.org

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Apr 2001 06:25:21 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Yucca Flats Project

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-APR-2001  6:25
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us




   The Truth About Chernobyl Is Told

 by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc.


 LNT to Blame


 The Thyroid Cancer Hoax


 No Increase in Cancers


 Notes
   The recent report of the United Nations Scientific Committee on the
 Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) is in total disagreement with the
 opinions widely propagated by the international media, by the Greens, and
 by the governments of Belarus and Ukraine, that there have been tens of
 thousands of cancer deaths and epidemics of genetic disorders, allegedly
 caused by the Chernobyl accident. To the contrary, UNSCEAR states, even
 among the progeny of the survivors of the atomic attacks on Hiroshima and
 Nagasaki, who received radiation doses hundreds of times higher than the
 radiation doses to the inhabitants of regions contaminated by the Chernobyl
 accident, no radiogenetic disturbances of health have been found.

 UNSCEAR's 1,220-page magnum opus: "Sources and Effects of Ionizing
 Radiation," subtitled "The UNSCEAR 2000 Report to the General Assembly,
 with Scientific Annexes," was published in September. The report to the
 General Assembly itself is short, only 17 pages, which serves as a
 non-technical summary of the 10 technical appendices.

 These 10 annexes present an in-depth review of the current state of
 research on radiation levels and effects, based on 5,400 scientific
 references.1 The total report represents the work of 146 committee members
 of 21 national delegations to UNSCEAR, and of the organization's 15
 scientific staff and consultants, over the past six years.


 http://21stcenturysciencetech.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Apr 2001 06:37:23 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Welcome to the 2nd Green (\Republican\) Revolution -- GRR?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-APR-2001  6:37
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Regulation: The Fight Which Saved the Nation


 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------


 by Richard Freeman and Marsha Freeman
 Printed in the American Almanac, February, 2001.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------
 End of Page Table of Contents Site Map Overview Page Home Page

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------

 The following report is adapted from a feature article, which appeared in
 the Aug. 18, 2000 EIR.

 On July 18, Senators Phil Gramm (R-Tex.) and Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.)
 introduced into the Congress Federal legislation for extreme deregulation
 of the U.S. power grid. The bill would take the nation backwards, to the
 era of the 1920s, when very little electric power regulation existed, and
 the Wall Street-City of London financier oligarchy ran America's electric
 utility policy, and a good part of its economic policy, as its own fiefdom.
 This contributed to the speculative orgy that culminated in the Great
 Depression.

 The Gramm-Schumer bill calls for the dissolution of the Public Utility
 Holding Company Act (PUHCA), which was passed by the U.S. Congress in
 August 1935. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who along with other patriots
 had pushed for the Act, signed it into law on Aug. 26, 1935.

 The PUHCA was passed--along with the Federal Power Act, which was also
 adopted in 1935--in one of the fiercest battles in the nation's 225-year
 history. The Wall Street forces demanded that they be allowed to do as they
 pleased, and that Federal regulation with teeth--as opposed to the state
 ``supervision'' which existed at the time--was out of the question.

 During the 1920s, the financier oligarchy, led by J.P. Morgan Bank,
 employed speculative ``holding companies''--such as Morgan Bank's two big
 holding companies, the United Corp., and the General Electric Corp.--to buy
 up, through a large number of mergers, most of the nation's electric
 power-generating and transmission-line capacity. It also bought up a lot of
 the natural resources that went into electricity generation, including
 coal and natural gas, and it even attempted to monopolize water sources for
 hydroelectric power. It obtained a hammer-lock on America's electric power
 generation, as was obtained over few other economic processes in history.

 But this is not just another ``resource'' or ``commodity.'' This is the
 supply of vital electrical energy, which heats and electrifies homes,
 drives farm processes, and powers factories, a form of hard infrastructure
 that is indispensable to the nation's advancement, or even continued
 survival.

 Under the Wall Street plan, one holding company would buy anywhere from 50
 to 300 operating companies. These companies generated electric power or
 transmitted it along transmission lines; that is, they did the actual work
 of altering nature for the benefit of man. Then, for speculative purposes,
 a new holding company would be set up above the existing holding company.
 The new holding company would put up only a small amount of its own money,
 but would buy a controlling share in the existing holding company. This
 built in great leverage. Through manipulation, it would collect much of the
 stock dividends and bond yields of the existing holding company. It would
 also impose fees on the existing holding company, which would, in turn,
 pass on the fees and otherwise loot the operating companies, in order to
 keep the cash flowing to the top-most level of the holding companies

 http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/reregula.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:24:28 -0700
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From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Addiction
MIME-Version: 1.0
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another good point!

Dexter Graphic wrote:

> > Can the philosophy of Fuller help in this case?
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/09/22/heroin.baltimore/index.html
> >
> > Can or do people on this thread give a shit? They should
> > because Fullers ideas, in my opinion encompass such
> > problems/SOLUTIONS.
> >
> > Just my thoughts,
> >
> > Mark
>
> I think drug addiction comes from a sense of hopelessness about
> ones life and the lack of creative service potentials in society.
> In other words, I'm worthless and useless and might as well die.
>
> Livingry design science can help alleviate this situation by
> giving everyone the opportunity to contribute in some creative
> capacity to the overall success of humanity. By teaching (and
> better yet by demonstrating) that each individual has a mind
> capable of comprehending some of the governing principles of
> universe and that with a little honest exploration they too can
> come up with solutions to some as-yet unaddressed problem. That
> this creative self-assertion for the benefit of total humanity
> is the soul-satisfying drive-activator which forever obsoletes
> the superficial high of drug use. They will learn to get their
> fix by loving and being loved, working diligently with others
> on various challenging projects, and generally participating in
> the dynamic evolution of intelligent life on this planet.
>
> Given access to these kinds of opportunities and with the
> hope that they can somehow succeed in spite of their weakness
> and past failures, I think more and more people will choose
> life over the slow suicide of drug addiction--whether it be
> heroin, alcohol, nicotine, mindless television or religion.
>
> As a practical matter, I advocate decriminalization of all drug
> use, sales and production, so that legitimate businesses will
> drive out all of the underworld criminal elements who are now
> profiteering from the artificially high prices. If people could
> grow their own pot for example (or have it delivered by Fed Ex
> directly from a grower who advertised on the Internet) most of
> the crime, violence, and wasted lives (jail terms) society now
> experiences would simply go away. Pharmaceutical companies would
> be able to produce mind-altering recreational drugs so cheaply
> that even heroin addicts could supply their daily fix from food
> stamp money. There would also be an incentive to produce safer
> synthetic substitutes for natural drugs like heroin or cocaine.
>
> Overall, the system we have now is probably the worst possible
> combination of moral condemnation and economic mismanagement.
>
> Ultimately it boils down to the individual's spiritual choice,
> as Fuller experienced by the lake, to accept a life of universe
> service or reject it in favor of personal oblivion.
>
> Dexter Graphic
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:17:30 +0800
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From:         M <callum2v@MS15.HINET.NET>
Subject:      geodesic sirship
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Any  contacts on  geodesics  appied to airship  hull / envelope  design  or  construction?

malcolm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Apr 2001 15:13:16 -0500
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From:         Stephen Neece <bridge@DOOR.NET>
Subject:      Re: geodesic sirship
In-Reply-To:  <3AD920DA.B102625C@ms15.hinet.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 12:17 PM 4/15/01 +0800, you wrote:
>Any  contacts on  geodesics  appied to airship  hull /
>envelope  design  or  construction?
>
>malcolm

Malcolm,

         Try this link,http://www.quantumaerostatics.com/qamenupage.htm

Hope it helps,

Stephen Neece
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:49:14 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] More on meat

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            16-APR-2001  6:49
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 are you sure about that, that gamma really penetrates
 so much more than X- ... well, those just go all the way.
    I had really thought that it was essentially for the surface, since
 otherwise it'd be too-much akin to cooking, all the way through,
 to be of much use (i.e. most canned stuff is cooked, although
 I think that it can just be blanched, in some cases).

 thus quoth:
  In other words, processes that brown, blacken, char etc do much more
  violence to the long molecules in the food, usually meat, than does
  radiation.

 yeah, cooking really is the scourge!

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Apr 2001 07:09:01 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] CA deregulation

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            16-APR-2001  7:09
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 on your section, Why are Prices so High?

 in our own (vangaurd greenie) city,
 Council'd just voted to take the utility tax off
 of natl.gas for vehicles -- well into the issue of the "crisis" --
 and the school board just accepted a grant
 from the AQMD (?) to favor CNG (compressed gas) busses, although
 I spoke vociferously against it, because
 of the usual "LNT" criteria hyping the dangers of deisel (and
 the "green deisel" program was also dyscussed, shown
 to be quite favorable, by the AQMD expert who was there .-)
    as for "FERC) has been applying to electricity,
 economics theory regarding pricing for other commodities,"
 the big problem is that the Feds have been using a criterion,
 "QAM," that carelessly under-reports inflation
 in favor of "quality adjustments" that are counted
 as increases in productivity -- and haveing been doing so,
 for decades.  I'm sure you recall the controversy
 over the CPI, in this regard, but it's been done
 as a matter of course, on the PPI side, in line
 with supply-side theory, I suppose.  (especiially
 with computers, where they do it in effect, twice-over,
 for any improvement in the hardware, and software.)

 in this regard,
 a lot of this "crisis" can simply be seen as the denouement
 of years of delayed inflation, becoming hyperinflation,
 etc.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:33:14 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] More on meat

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            16-APR-2001 13:33
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 "waste" such as recovered Cobalt-60 is not really the way it's done,
 much.  electronically is much preferred, although,
 these days, who really knows what we "have" to put up with !?!

 thus quoth:
  Similar to rum in the days of John Woolman, which couldn't be extricated
  from the slave trade, can food irradiation be separated from the nuclear
  industry that it feeds off of and supports?

 of course, if you're referrinf to nuclear power,
 maybe not.  the HTGR (sodium vapor) operate at such temperatures,
 as to also produce process-heat for meatallurgy (incl. recycling).

 --Les Dukes d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:35:20 +0000
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From:         SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      A Tribute to Donella H. Meadows
Comments: To: "tetworld@listbot.com" <tetworld@listbot.com>
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I am saddened to learn that Donella Meadows, one of the brightest
stars in the sustainability movement, recently passed away
suddenly. She coauthored the famous book, The Limits of Growth,
which Buckminster criticized for not taking into account the
recycling of materials. In spite of such limits, the overall
conclusion that humanity was following an unsustainable path is
correct. This was a person that lived the life she preached.

The Brightest Star in the Sky: A Tribute to Donella H. Meadows:
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0228-04.htm

(Excerpts below.)

Donella H. Meadows, known as "Dana" to her friends, died on
February 21, 2001,  at the age of 59. She succumbed to a brief
but intense fight with cerebral meningitis.

As the coordinator of an international network of leading
researchers known as the Balaton Group, as a participant in
dozens of scientific committees and think-tank groups and boards
of directors, as a teacher and farmer and community member, as
the founder of the Sustainability Institute and an
ecological village known as Cobb Hill, and as a scientific writer
and newspaper columnist, Dana Meadows touched and inspired
thousands of people directly, and millions indirectly.

In 1972 Dana was the lead author of a book called The Limits to
Growth. The book reported on the results of the first computer
model of the entire world, a model built at Massachusetts
Institute of Technology. The book said that humanity was on a
collision course with the laws of physics, mathematics, and
biology. Our present trajectory was unsustainable. Something in
the system would have to give. If we kept expanding our numbers,
our consumption of resources, and our dumping of various kinds of
trash into nature, we would, within about a hundred years, exceed
nature's or society's limits and run off the proverbial cliff,
just as did the civilizations of Rome and Easter Island.

Dana said that she was surprised by how much more efficient
technology had become than was imagined in 1972.

She helped us to understand systems -- how one thing links to
another, how driving your car links to stronger hurricanes in the
Atlantic, how the food you eat links to oil from the Middle East
and U.S. defense policy, how declining investment in schools
links to a generation of diminished opportunity and capacity,
hampering precisely the innovation we need to fix the other
problems we've created.

But while she helped us understand global problems, Dana was
herself a practitioner of local solutions. She lived for many
years on an organic farm, living simply, saving energy,
practicing what she believed must be preached. Worried about
climate change, she restricted her own travel, only going where
she felt she could do the most good. When the revolutionary new
hybrid gas/electric cars became available, she immediately bought
one, and wrote about how important it was to choose such
relatively easy steps forward in our personal lives.


In 1992, twenty years after The Limits to Growth Dana and her
team of co-authors, updated their study, titled Beyond the
Limits, because trends like greenhouse gas emissions had gone,
they concluded, too far already. "Much has happened in twenty
years," they wrote, "to bring about technologies, concepts, and
institutions that can create a sustainable future. And much has
happened to perpetuate the desperate poverty, the waste of
resources, the accumulation of toxins, and the destruction of
nature that are tearing down the support capacity of the earth."

                      In addition to updating the statistics and
computer models and the graphs of
                      rocketing pollutants and plummeting
biological capacity, Dana and her colleagues
                      also updated their three major conclusions
from 1972:

                      "1. Human use of many essential resources
and generation of many kinds of
                      pollutants have already surpassed rates
that are physically sustainable. Without
                      significant reductions in material and
energy flows, there will be in the coming
                      decades an uncontrolled decline in per
capita food output, energy use, and industrial
                      production.

                      "2. This decline is not inevitable. To
avoid it two changes are necessary. The first is a
                      comprehensive revision of policies and
practices that perpetuate growth in material
                      consumption and in population. The second
is a rapid, drastic increase in the
                      efficiency with which materials and energy
are used.

                      "3. A sustainable society is still
technically and economically possible. It could be
                      much more desirable than a society that
tries to solve its problems by constant
                      expansion. The transition to a sustainable
society requires a careful balance between
                      long-term and short-term goals and an
emphasis on sufficiency, equity, and quality
                      of life rather than on quantity of output.
It requires more than productivity and more
                      than technology; it also requires maturity,
compassion, and wisdom."

"One is not allowed in the modern culture to speak about love,"
she wrote, with the
                      support of her co-authors, "except in the
most romantic and trivial sense of the word.
                      Anyone who calls upon the capacity of
people to practice brotherly and sisterly love
                      is more likely to be ridiculed than to be
taken seriously. The deepest difference
                      between optimists and pessimists is their
position in the debate about whether human
                      beings are able to operate collectively
from a basis of love. In a society that
                      systematically develops in people their
individualism, their competitiveness, and their
                      cynicism, the pessimists are the vast
majority.

"That pessimism is the single greatest problem of the current
social system ... and the
                      deepest cause of unsustainability. A
culture that cannot believe in, discuss, and
                      develop the best human qualities is one
that suffers from a tragic distortion of
                      information. [...]

"... It is difficult to speak of or to practice love, friendship,
generosity, understanding,
                      or solidarity within a system whose rules,
goals, and information streams are geared
                      for lesser human qualities. But we try, and
we urge you to try. Be patient with
                      yourself and others as you and they
confront the difficulty of a changing world.
                      Understand and empathize with inevitable
resistance; there is some resistance, some
                      clinging to the ways of unsustainability,
within each of us. Include everyone in the
                      new world. Everyone will be needed. Seek
out and trust in the best human instincts
                      in yourself and in everyone. Listen to the
cynicism around you and pity those who
                      believe it, but don't believe it yourself."
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Apr 2001 06:08:53 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Fwd:  Nader, an overseas view

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            17-APR-2001  6:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 there are two false premises in the Guardiean article.
    firstly, Gore tried to win by having "won a court case" --
 the one of March 27th, which he did win,
 at the behest of both the DNC and the Supreme Court,
 which effectively allowed the DNC to ignore the results
 of the Arkansas primary, which Gore also won.
    secondly, the notion that either of the 2-generation oilco-
 benafactees would be substantially different
 in terms of their respective environamental policies,
 seem to be based upon a popular advertizing slogan,
 that pretends that hydrocarbons are akin to dinosaurs!

 but, yes, they are portrayed in completely different terms
 by the once-opposed teams;
 the "hard-line free-traders" are now in charge, although
 one may be at a los as to how the chief promoter of NAFTA etc.,
 is any less of hard-trader; eh?

 the big question is,
 why didn't ralfN run in a D primary "since '84,"
 with his tremendous shadow-goment on the USA campuses
 (the state PIRGs, some of which are funded
 by "check-off" on the registration-forms) ??

 thus quoth:
  Bush didn't win the election, he won a court case. But, with the

  slenderest of endorsements, he promises to inflict severe damage.

  In Congress, many Republicans are beginning to think he is beyond

  the pale. Even Uncle Sam's faithful poodle, the British

  government, is yapping at his heels. . . . .


  So first, some truth. There is a difference between Bush and his

  Democratic challenger, Al Gore. For Nader to have claimed

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:04:48 -0500
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From:         Seth Itzkan <sitzkan@PLANET-TECH.COM>
Subject:      Earth Day memorials for Dana Meadows
Comments: To: uhcl-futures@lstsrvr.cl.uh.edu, visionary vermont
          <visionaryvermont@egroups.com>,
          cpf@planet-tech.com, wfsboston@yahoogroups.com, xbbn@world.std.com
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Hi Folks,

This Earth Day weekend has special significance for me because sites around
the country will host memorial services for a dear friend and mentor,
Donella (Dana) Meadows.  A rich line up of notables will be making
presentations (Amory & Hunter Lovins, Herman Daly, Lester Brown, David Orr,
Dennis Meadows, Ray Anderson, and others) and a who's who of environmental
and socially progressive organizations are sponsors.  There will also be
live web telecasts.  Please see details below and visit
http://www.sustainer.org/meadows/memorials.html

I would like to take this time to thank all of you who responded to my
appreciation of her http://www.planet-tech.com/papers/dana.html and ask tha=
t
those of you who feel inclined, please send me any little comments or
thoughts that come to mind for you when you think of Dana or any of her
works.  I will record these and post them on my site.  This, I believe, is
the best tribute to her.

Please also try to attend one of the sessions or view the telecast, if you
can.

Thanks so much.

- Seth

(apologies for duplicate/cross-postings)


Donella (Dana) Meadows: 1941-2001
D. H. Meadows

Memorial Services

April 21, 2001
=A0San Francisco, CA
=A0**Live Webcast**

April 22, 2001
=A0Hanover, NH
=A0Cambridge, MA
=A0Washington, DC
=A0Whidbey Is, WA




San Francisco, CA: Saturday, April 21, 2001, 10:00am-1:00pm
This memorial service will be webcast live.

The Power of One: Remembering Dana Meadows.
A celebration of the life, love and integrity of Donella (Dana) Meadows wil=
l
be held at the Palace of Fine Arts Theater, Bay & Lyon Streets, San
Francisco.

Doors will open at 10 am to a gallery of photos and quotes of Dana. The
ceremony will be between 11 and 12:30.

The ceremony will be followed by a gathering of the clan at the Crissy
Field.

Featured speakers will include: Paul Hawken, John Robbins, Vicki Robin,
Randy Hayes, Amory Lovins, Hunter Lovins, Richard Norgaard, Lynne Twist,
Libby Roderick

www.simpleliving.net/DanaMeadowsSFMemorial
Event hot-line: (415) 387-6719



Hanover, NH: Sunday, April 22, 2001, 1:00pm.

A gathering to honor the life of Donella H. Meadows will be held on Earth
Day, Sunday, April 22, 2001, at Rollins Chapel, Dartmouth College, Hanover
NH. A reception will follow on the upper level of the Hopkins Center.

Speakers and performers include:


James Wright - President of Dartmouth College
James Hornig - Professor Emeritus, Environmental Studies, Dartmouth College
Vicki Smith - Upper Valley community planner
Priscilla Sears - Professor, English Department, Dartmouth College, reading
Let Evening Come, by Jane Kenyon
Drew Jones - Sustainability Institute
Dennis Meadows - University of New Hampshire
John Richardson - Professor of International Development, American
University, reading from Groping in the Dark by Donella Meadows, John
Richardson, and Gerhart Bruckmann
Philip Rice - Cobb Hill Co-Housing
Alan AtKisson - AtKisson and Associates
Amory Lovins - Rocky Mountain Institute
David Orr - Professor of Environmental Studies, Oberlin College
Hannah Jacobs - Environmental Studies major, Dartmouth College, reading fro=
m
A Time of Life and Death by Donella Meadows

Linda Galvan - cello
Plainfield Chimers - handbell choir with whom Dana played, Blessed Assuranc=
e
and Let There Be Peace of Earth, arr. by Cynthia Dobrinski


Operate from love. One is not allowed to say that in public any more. Anyon=
e
who calls upon the human capacity for brotherly and sisterly love,
generosity, compassion, will be met with a hail of cynicism. Once when I
tried to do so, a high government official stood up to say, "Of all scarce
resources, love is the scarcest."

I just don't believe that. Love is not a scarce resource, it is an untapped
one.

"Beyond the Limits", speech given in Spain, Fall, 1993




Cambridge, MA: Sunday, April 22, 2001, 1:30pm - 4:30pm.

Donella Meadows Memorial Service and Tribute
American Academy of Arts & Sciences
136 Irving Street, Cambridge, MA

Speakers for the service include:


Ray Anderson - CEO of the Interface Company
Robert Braille - Boston Globe journalist
Wim Hafkamp - Balaton Group
Linda Harrar - independent film producer and journalist
Dr. Les Kaufman - Pew Scholar in Conservation and the Environment, and
professor, Boston University Marine Program
Ashley Graves Lanfer - Dartmouth College alumna
Bill McKibben - author


This special Earth Day memorial service will serve as a tribute to and
celebration of the life, accomplishments, and legacy of internationally
renowned scholar, writer, educator, systems analyst, organic farmer, and a
leader in the sustainability movement, Dr. Donella "Dana" Meadows.

All colleagues, friends, and admirers of Dana Meadows are welcome. RSVPs ar=
e
NOT required. Seating is on a first-come basis. The AAAS is a 15 minute wal=
k
from the Harvard T station. The vehicle entrance to the Academy is located
at 200 Beacon Street, Somerville. We encourage you to take public
transportation. Directions are available from the AAAS website at:
www.amacad.org/about/directio.htm. For more information about the event
contact Cynthia Robinson at 617.720.5100 or crobinson@neaq.org.




Washington, DC: Sunday, April 22, 2001, 5:00pm.

The Center for a New American Dream, in conjunction with Herman Daly, Leste=
r
Brown, Jay Harris, Catherine Cameron, and other Washington, D.C.-based
friends of Dana Meadows, will host a memorial service in her honor at the
Washington Friends Meeting on Florida Avenue, NW, Washington, DC

Dana was vice-chair of the Center's board of directors. Bell ringers will
open the service in tribute to Dana's lifelong love of bell ringing. The
service will be in the Quaker tradition and will be followed by a reception
at the Tabard Inn from 6:30pm to 8:00pm.

We invite anyone in the Washington, DC area to attend the service. If you
also plan to attend the reception, please RSVP no later than April 10 by
sending e-mail to amy@newdream.org or call Amy Rutledge at 301-891-3683.

If you cannot attend any of the services, we invite you to send us a card o=
r
personal memory of Dana. We will assemble all cards and messages into a
beautifully bound album for Dana's mother who has asked us to audiotape the
service. Cards and messages can be e-mailed or sent by postal service to Am=
y
Rutledge, Center for a New American Dream, Suite 900, Takoma Park, Maryland
20912

If you need or want additional information about the Washington, DC tribute
to Dana, don't hesitate to contact Amy Rutledge at the Center for a New
American Dream.




Whidbey Island, WA: Sunday, April 22, 2001, 4:30pm.

The Dana Meadows memorial service will be held at the Chinook Lands of the
Whidbey Institute. There will be a series of speakers (including Vicki
Robin, Joanna Macy, Vivienne Hull, and Sharon Daloz Parks), prayer,
meditation, singing, and the ringing of our new bronze Salmon bell.

The Whidbey Institute is a non-profit ecospiritual education center located
near Seattle on Whidbey Island, Washington. For more information, call the
Whidbey Institute at 360-341-1884, or www.whidbeyinstitute.org

The service will take place between two related Earth Day events:





- Seth

--
Seth J. Itzkan
Planet-TECH Associates
http://www.planet-tech.com
sitzkan@planet-tech.com
781-874-0206
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:35:18 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Earth Day memorials for Dana Meadows

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            18-APR-2001 10:35
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, not to get to picqayune about those early simulacra, or
 any latter-day ones, from the notorious & oligarchical Club
 o'Rome; yesterday,
 a seminar was given by someone from the geophys/planetary phys dept.,
 "2050: The end of the growth era
 (finite-time singularity in the dynamics
 of the world population and economic indices),"
 which may have scared me, if I was able to go.
 (I'm not allowed on campus, actually .-)

 I am assuming that this is some sort of simulacrum, of course.

 thus quoth:
  Operate from love. One is not allowed to say that in public any more.
 Anyone
  who calls upon the human capacity for brotherly and sisterly love,
  generosity, compassion, will be met with a hail of cynicism. Once when I
  tried to do so, a high government official stood up to say, "Of all
 scarce
  resources, love is the scarcest."

  I just don't believe that. Love is not a scarce resource, it is an
 untapped
  one.

  "Beyond the Limits", speech given in Spain, Fall, 1993

 this was the first that I knew,
 that "Beyond the Limits" referred to "overshoot,"
 or hwat ever term one might use.

  --The Duke of Oil!
 >  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:40:48 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Irradiated meat etc

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            18-APR-2001 10:40
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 maybe it has more to do with "little voices" in one's ear.  at least,
 wouldn't it be prudent to *switch* ears (and
 to alternate which end of the bed is the head, if
 close to a powerline) ??
    seriously, I'd guess that social relations,
 exacerbated by the wireless (go-anywhere) connection,
 might be more at cause.

 thus quoth:
  it was the tree killing chemicals that they sprayed around
  the high power lines.  They must be carcinogens, I thought.
  No one appeared particularly interested in my theory.

 actually, perhaps so, but on the other hand,
 it's all been infected by the awful LNT paradigm
 of the EPA fundies ... esp. with regard
 to residues of pesticides on food (yes;
 as usual, there's a definite ossupational hazard !-)

 --The Duke of Oil!
 >>  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:08:19 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Religions re Climate Change: article

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            18-APR-2001 11:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the text of this (or the other one that was posted) is almost verbatim,
 what appeaered in the Saturday-before-last's Religion section,
 as the feature article.
    not only does this NCC Green Coalition give new meaning
 to the phrase, faith-based initiatives, along the lines
 of Scty. Whitman's adulation of their "fervor," but
 the Administration's quite fundamentalist ("hard-line free-traders") call
 for "market-based incentives," has been going-on
 since the April Fools of 2000 (when BP became our Numero Uno dystributor
 of gasoline and Burmah Castrol), which ought simply to be called,
 hyperinflation (it surely is, now), or just looting.

 I'm sure the "protocol" goes something like
 -- as it would have under a Gore regime --
 well, hey; the oil companies really know how
 to manage profits, so let's let *them* do it, instead
 of some steenkeeng UN organization; OK?
    OK, so maybe Gore would have insisted upon the UN,
 to be in charge of it, or simply the Commonwealth,
 which he'd want us to join
 for the "North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement."

 the posting about the World Council, re Pronk, sort-of shows,
 how much the WCC is affiliated with the NCC; eh?

  --The Duke of Oil!
 >  >  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:35:11 -0500
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From:         "Winchester, David" <David.Winchester@COMPAQ.COM>
Subject:      Re: Sanyo Electric's GENESIS PROJECT
Comments: To: "SpaceshipEarth@mail.com" <SpaceshipEarth@mail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I did a pretty thorough search and found several more references, but no
material.  Seems that Kuwano writes some scientific papers on development of
materials for use in solar cells, but none of these papers is online as far
as I could search.

David Winchester

-----Original Message-----
From: SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM [mailto:SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:55 AM
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Sanyo Electric's GENESIS PROJECT


What happened to Sanyo Electric's GENESIS PROJECT? This is the
only material found on the internet about it.

THE GENESIS PROJECT
(excerpt from ATIP97.030 : The Solar Cell Industry in Japan:
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/japan/www/atip/public/atip.reports.97/atip97.030r.
html)

The Genesis Project is the brainchild of Dr. Yukinori Kuwano, Sanyo
director and general manager of the Group's R&D Headquarters. A synopsis
of his thoughts follow:

The major drawback of solar cells is their inability to generate power
at night, and that their output fluctuates dramatically depending
on the
sunlight conditions. These problems give some concern to those
who feel
that solar energy is unstable as a prime-energy source.

A Global Energy Network Equipped with Solar cells and International
Superconductor grids (GENESIS) would resolve these problems. A
look at
earth from space shows that rainy and cloudy areas cover less
than 30%
of the total land mass, and that it is always daylight on one
side of
the globe. A worldwide PV power generating system connected by
superconducting cables with no transmission losses (until these are
available, high-voltage DC transmission technology could be used) would
enable daylight areas to provide clean solar energy
around-the-clock to
those areas where it is night, rainy or cloudy.

Forecasts are that in the year 2000, energy demands will be the
equivalent of 14 billion barrels of crude oil per year. To meet this
requirement, 800 km square of solar cells would be needed,
assuming a
conversion efficiency of 10%. Barely 4% of the world's desert
area would
suffice.

Implementing this plan is not so unrealistic. When a large number of
people install PV  power generation systems in their homes and in
factories, and these are connected to the electric power grid,
all of
Japan will be made into a network through PV power generation power
lines. If the same pattern is repeated in several countries, PV power
generation networks will be created in each of these countries. Country
networks could then be connected.

For example, South Korea and Japan (Kyushu) are separated by
200km -
their transmission lines could be connected. In Europe, electric power
grids of some countries are already interconnected. As a next
step, a
plan called "Silk Road GENESIS has been proposed by the Tokyu
Construction Co., Ltd. to construct PV power generating systems along
the ancient trade road. It will include Sanyo and four other companies.
The project envisages the building of a total of 139 100,000KW solar
plants between 2001 and 2030. The combined power generation
capacity is
expected to reach 100 million kw.

Between 1996 and 2020, when the market size reaches between
10,000 MW
and 100,000mW per year and integrated solar cell module cost
drops to
$1/W or less, the use of solar cells will find wider application in
private homes, apartment blocks, factories, industrial
facilities, and
power stations. Finally, sometime after 2020, the Genesis Project
- a
global solar power network - might be realized.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Apr 2001 06:18:02 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Earth Day memorials for Dana Meadows

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            20-APR-2001  6:18
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   oh, shucks; I saw on the second quote of it,
   that it *was* the article from the LATimes.
   (re the NCC's Green Coalition or, as I prefer to call it,
   the [2nd/Supply-side] Green "Republican" Revolution !-)

   the most interesting differential between the LAT and
   the NYT (when I find it, and some will say that
   this makes it better, but I don't think, so) is on the very front
   for the financier-rentier interests, such as the report
   of a day or two ago about the bevy of appointees
   that are slated from the ultra-phony Federalist Society.  (I don't
 recall,
   which organ had reported about the bevy of Supply-siders
   that are being unearthed without fanfare,
   with the inculcation of devotion to the ideal
   of the Laffer-Mordell Curve; yeeha.  however,
   I did just read a reprint in a local (SM) paper
   from Klugman, on the burgeoning, all-rich-all-the-time-
   til-death-do-you-part tax-cut !-)

   thus saith:
        not only does this NCC Green Coalition give new meaning
     to the phrase, faith-based initiatives, along the lines
     of Scty. Whitman's adulation of their "fervor," but
     the Administration's quite fundamentalist ("hard-line free-traders")
   call
     for "market-based incentives," has been going-on

   --The Duke of Oil!
     >  >  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:30:37 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      a quadrivium and a poster (for the recent chapter-meeting of MAA)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            23-APR-2001  7:30
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 sorry, but my "free" storage just went unfree, and
 has dysabled the "upload" (to it).  so,
 what I'm "sharing" is not the most current of these two files,
 by almost 2 weeks.
    the first is my proposed curriculum, which has been circulating
 for some time (and which I "shared," before);
 the second os the first "leg" of it,
 which hasn't been around as long, and the part that is my special
 interest, of geometry.  although it is all quite elementary,
 it may seem pretty "out" there, and some of it is "new."
    (again, apologies to any Bucky Freaks, even further out there, but
 I think that the Lobel Frame vindicates him in a very big way,
 ignoring the "apolitical" stuff .-)

 http://www.xdrive.com/share/988062106373tR6fdaKbw8WqRlusn3oa
 http://www.xdrive.com/share/988062140462ThO3ejZxKUeWgo4mqf4X

 --The Enron Liberation Front!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:41:23 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Quebec City 2 of 3: The Nonviolent Protests (the 9

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            23-APR-2001  7:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 these folks in Quebec are nothing but liberation theologistf --
 for the rentier-financier class.  I cannpt believe,
 how the media is playing the crap about how the President, supposedly,
 knoweth not what his policy is.  the policy is, firstly,
 "free trade throughout the hemisphere."  secondly,
 it is good, ol' "British Liberal Free Trade" in consort
 with a "NAtlanticFTA" and the Commonealth,
 which would essentially be the end of US sovereignity (and
 all of the other nations', of course).
    did anyone contrast the articel by Klugman in the NYT,
 about how "free trade" is so groovy, and
 the one (this Sunday) about how the WTO is really green?

 >--The Enron Liberation Front!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

 >http://www.xdrive.com/share/988062106373tR6fdaKbw8WqRlusn3oa
 >http://www.xdrive.com/share/988062140462ThO3ejZxKUeWgo4mqf4X
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:29:49 -0700
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      Joe Moore
Comments: To: "Geodesic Listserve GEODESIC"@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
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Joe, are you back on-line?
Mark
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Date:         Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:28:15 -0500
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From:         Seth Itzkan <sitzkan@PLANET-TECH.COM>
Subject:      The first obvious day of Spring
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Yesterday was the first obvious day of Spring.

It was marked by maple blossoms and magnolia bushes.
Delicate green flowers and sturdy pink pedals.

There are certain days when you walk outside your door and say "Whoa!  It
wasn't like that yesterday".

These days are dividers, where in just one passing of the sun, the
biological indicators conspire for  mutiny, and an entire season is ousted.
Yesterday the maples and magnolias sang in harmony.  "Our flowers are here!
Soon our leaves will fill the trees and bushes".

The nakedness which is winter will be covered with the trappings of life.
A green wall of leaves will block my view of the Mystic River.  Shadows will
be cast during mid day.  Even a new sound will emerge.  Rustling.

I can't hear it yet, but I know it's coming - the flapping of leaves outside
my window,  like sail boats in a regatta.






--
Seth J. Itzkan
Planet-TECH Associates
http://www.planet-tech.com
sitzkan@planet-tech.com
781-874-0206
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:35:56 -0700
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      Re: The first obvious day of Spring
In-Reply-To:  <20010424154622917.AAC73@dns.bridgemedia.net@[66.30.65.39]>
Mime-version: 1.0
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Seth, I really enjoyed and appreciate your poetic musings on spring...

I've also just visited your splendid site and have joined/subscribed to it.

Heartily recommend it to all...

Cheers,
Mark Siegmund
Tetworld Center for Peace and Global Gaming
http://www.tetworld.org
Associate Editor
The International Journal of Humanities and Peace (IJHP)
http://www.ijhp.net
Tetworld@tripod.net

> From: Seth Itzkan <sitzkan@PLANET-TECH.COM>
> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:28:15 -0500
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: The first obvious day of Spring
>
> Yesterday was the first obvious day of Spring.
>
> It was marked by maple blossoms and magnolia bushes.
> Delicate green flowers and sturdy pink pedals.
>
> There are certain days when you walk outside your door and say "Whoa!  It
> wasn't like that yesterday".
>
> These days are dividers, where in just one passing of the sun, the
> biological indicators conspire for  mutiny, and an entire season is ousted.
> Yesterday the maples and magnolias sang in harmony.  "Our flowers are here!
> Soon our leaves will fill the trees and bushes".
>
> The nakedness which is winter will be covered with the trappings of life.
> A green wall of leaves will block my view of the Mystic River.  Shadows will
> be cast during mid day.  Even a new sound will emerge.  Rustling.
>
> I can't hear it yet, but I know it's coming - the flapping of leaves outside
> my window,  like sail boats in a regatta.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Seth J. Itzkan
> Planet-TECH Associates
> http://www.planet-tech.com
> sitzkan@planet-tech.com
> 781-874-0206
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Apr 2001 05:22:55 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Lovins on energy day

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            24-APR-2001  5:22
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 for the sake of mister williams, I'm just a putative friend, or
 possibly a Phriend in need; I've never been to a meeting, because
 it's difficult enough for me to tolerate Unitarians!
    seriously, today's LATimes just noted that gasoline is probably going
 to go to $3/gallon, as I have been saying for some time,
 due to "marketing decisions" began by Tosco,
 which other refiners-cum-retailers are following in suit, perhaps
 out of jealousy of the oilcos, themselves, with their recent profits.
 they also noted, first I knew of it, that MTBE, which is especially req'd,
 first I knew of it, in the summer in California (or just
 in the Valley of Smokes, here) is synthesized *from* natural gas,
 another driver-up of the price for it (all this for the dubious prospect
 of adding an oxygenizer to the fuel, instead of alowing
 for the ever-better achievements of combustion (as opposed
 to such mileage-drainers as catalytic [tailpipe] converters, and
 for a region whose smog (as indicated by ozone, which is good stuff)
 has halved since the 50s, while population trebled and
 vehicles quadrupled !-)

 I am still meaning to find a copy of _Soft Energy Paths_,
 to continue analyzing its assupmtions re nukes etc.  really,
 though, I consdier it essential for the space program,
 what he's doing in his "mountain hide-away" (as characterized
 by the intersting opinion in the WSJ, today, which actually ignored
 the role of Freeman in launnching e-dereg/green-e *in* CA,
 in focussing on his Ford Fdn. work -- and
 taking the usual "hardline freetrader" ideals of the Administration,
 which thus far has shown only the colors of Toryism ... I should say,
 the pattern, since the colors are the same!

 >--The Enron Liberation Front!
   >http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

 [also re: [Quaker-P] Telecom deregulation]
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Apr 2001 05:28:35 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: a quadrivium and a poster (for the recent chapter-meeting of

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            24-APR-2001  5:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the most important reference to add to my poster is,
 Lovel's Frame work will be (featured?) in the Summer issue
 of Dome magazine, whenever that comes out.  from what
 I'm able to discern from the books (on the CD,
 which I haven't raelly been able to fully access),
 it is not yet a full-fledged method,
 as far as the geometry goeth.  however,
 the mechanical joining is quite beautiful!
    Lobel is an architect in France.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:05:52 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Seth Itzkan <sitzkan@PLANET-TECH.COM>
Subject:      Proposal Accepted - For Fuel Cell Assessment
Comments: cc: uhcl-futures@lstsrvr.cl.uh.edu, wfsboston@egroups.com,
          wfs@egroups.com, visionary vermont <visionaryvermont@egroups.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Dear Friends,

It gives me great pleasure to inform you that Planet-TECH Associates has
been chosen by the  Massachusetts Technology Collaborative (MTC) to perform
a technical and market assessment of fuel cell energy generation for the
"Cyber-district" in the city of Haverhill, MA.

The Massachusetts Technology Collaborative is overseer of the Massachusetts
Renewable Energy Trust, a $100M state supported fund to advance renewable
energy options in the Commonwealth.  MTC has issued an RFP titled "A
Technical and Market Assessment of Premium Power in the Haverhill 'Cyber
district'".   The issuing of that RFP stems in part from the "hydrogen
economy" advocacy work I have been doing in Haverhill for the last 17
months.  My thinking on the hydrogen economy draws largely from the work of
Lovins, et. al. in Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial
Revolution.

Joining me on the team which has responded to this RFP are members of some
of the world's leading real estate and energy consulting companies.  These
firms include:
* M Technology Inc.
* Coldwell Banker Hunneman King Davis
and
* Rocky Mountain Institute

Our work begins in May and is to be completed in August.

What I find particularly exciting about this project is that it is to take
place in the birth place of America's first industrial revolution and can,
perhaps, be a harbinger for the next industrial revolution - the Hydrogen
Economy.  The project site is an old shoe mill in downtown Haverhill, on the
Merrimack River, and we are to determine if hydrogen fuel cells can be
economically employed to retrofit the building into a "high availability"
data center facility, with 100% onsite, reliable, and clean energy
generation.

Of course I am interested in any suggestions, comments, or questions you may
have concerning this work.

I would like to thank everyone who has been encouraging me to pursue my
dreams and to investigate new ideas.

For more information, please see the following:

Massachusetts Technology Collaborative
http://www.mtpc.org/

Fuel Cell "Assured Power" RFP
http://www.mtpc.org/cluster/haverhill.htm#

Haverhill Cyber District
http://www.haverhillcyberdistrict.com/

Trends in Innovation Presentation
http://www.planet-tech.com/haverhill_innovates/


Best,

- Seth


(apologies for duplicate/cross-postings)


--
Seth J. Itzkan
Planet-TECH Associates
http://www.planet-tech.com
sitzkan@planet-tech.com
781-874-0206
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:58:00 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Proposal Accepted - For Fuel Cell Assessment

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            25-APR-2001 10:58
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 this irks me.  no; it really ergs me!
    twice in the last week, somebody gave the circular argument that
 fuel-cells can sortalike generate their own electricty, perhaps
 trying to fulfill the wishes of a local talker,
 who I'd tried to convince, otherwise.
    I know, you didn't quite mean that, Seth, but
 a careless construction like that seems to say,
 hydrogen is (itself) a renewable fuel.

 thank you for de-erging your face!

 --The Enron Liberation Front!
 http://www/tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:09:48 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      The Big Chill

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            25-APR-2001 11:09
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I found something, I didn't see, before:
 the Davos Forum (according to the C.S.Monitor) and its
 CEOs of Earth's biggest corporations attending,
 voted climate change as the "most urgent problem facing humanity."
    this article in a student paper also notes that
 it's largely the same Georgian personnel who promoted the Rio pact etc.,
 although it does not bother to say, what the Admin.says that
 it's going to do: A senior Administration official expects
 the US eventually to propose a greenhouse-gas emmissions-trading sytem
 that differs from the one in the Kyoto accord, although
 the White House hasn't come up with any specifics (WSJ, Monday pA24)
 -- not ones that they've told US about,
 other than FTAA, of course, and the appointees wanted (!)
 from the Federalist Society, and from Mont Pelerin etc.
 ad vomitorium.

 --The Enron Liberation Front!
 >http://www/tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 26 Apr 2001 02:28:30 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Proposal Accepted - For Fuel Cell Assessment
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Seth,

I couldn't find anything about the hydrogen economy on the pages you
included via links. How do you expect to create hydrogen and or what are the
proposals for hydrogen creation that you are working on?


And don't mind Brian he's an old balding anti-british guy who is wanted in 5
states for disrupting the Status quo and not returning books to Public
Libraries. :)

And P.S. will the hydrogen industry help us win the war with China that
G"E"orge dubya is getting ready to get us into?

Your ( I've watched the film Gladiator 12 times so far ) Servant,

Mark



----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Itzkan" <sitzkan@PLANET-TECH.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:05 PM
Subject: Proposal Accepted - For Fuel Cell Assessment


> Dear Friends,
>
> It gives me great pleasure to inform you that Planet-TECH Associates has
> been chosen by the  Massachusetts Technology Collaborative (MTC) to
perform
> a technical and market assessment of fuel cell energy generation for the
> "Cyber-district" in the city of Haverhill, MA.
>
> The Massachusetts Technology Collaborative is overseer of the
Massachusetts
> Renewable Energy Trust, a $100M state supported fund to advance renewable
> energy options in the Commonwealth.  MTC has issued an RFP titled "A
> Technical and Market Assessment of Premium Power in the Haverhill 'Cyber
> district'".   The issuing of that RFP stems in part from the "hydrogen
> economy" advocacy work I have been doing in Haverhill for the last 17
> months.  My thinking on the hydrogen economy draws largely from the work
of
> Lovins, et. al. in Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial
> Revolution.
>
> Joining me on the team which has responded to this RFP are members of some
> of the world's leading real estate and energy consulting companies.  These
> firms include:
> * M Technology Inc.
> * Coldwell Banker Hunneman King Davis
> and
> * Rocky Mountain Institute
>
> Our work begins in May and is to be completed in August.
>
> What I find particularly exciting about this project is that it is to take
> place in the birth place of America's first industrial revolution and can,
> perhaps, be a harbinger for the next industrial revolution - the Hydrogen
> Economy.  The project site is an old shoe mill in downtown Haverhill, on
the
> Merrimack River, and we are to determine if hydrogen fuel cells can be
> economically employed to retrofit the building into a "high availability"
> data center facility, with 100% onsite, reliable, and clean energy
> generation.
>
> Of course I am interested in any suggestions, comments, or questions you
may
> have concerning this work.
>
> I would like to thank everyone who has been encouraging me to pursue my
> dreams and to investigate new ideas.
>
> For more information, please see the following:
>
> Massachusetts Technology Collaborative
> http://www.mtpc.org/
>
> Fuel Cell "Assured Power" RFP
> http://www.mtpc.org/cluster/haverhill.htm#
>
> Haverhill Cyber District
> http://www.haverhillcyberdistrict.com/
>
> Trends in Innovation Presentation
> http://www.planet-tech.com/haverhill_innovates/
>
>
> Best,
>
> - Seth
>
>
> (apologies for duplicate/cross-postings)
>
>
> --
> Seth J. Itzkan
> Planet-TECH Associates
> http://www.planet-tech.com
> sitzkan@planet-tech.com
> 781-874-0206
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 26 Apr 2001 07:11:50 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Book
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0CE20.2A464EE0"

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"Natural Capitalism"

http://www.naturalcapitalism.org/sitepages/pid5.asp

I bet GEEorge dubya brings back napalm to celebrate a new war era =
starting with China.

Mark



------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0CE20.2A464EE0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Natural Capitalism"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.naturalcapitalism.org/sitepages/pid5.asp">http://www.n=
aturalcapitalism.org/sitepages/pid5.asp</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I bet GEEorge dubya brings back napalm =
to celebrate=20
a new war era starting with China.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0CE20.2A464EE0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Apr 2001 03:21:50 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Fw: Earn Free Gas
MIME-Version: 1.0
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              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0CF92.5DABF820"

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ShellI'm really getting tired of "G" dubyas cronies.



----- Original Message -----=20
From: Great Offers=20
To: mark@gold-arts.com=20
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 11:43 AM
Subject: Earn Free Gas


=20


    =20


      Dear Friend,

      You're invited to apply for the Shell Platinum Credit Card from =
Chase.  You'll earn unlimited free FormulaShell=AE gasoline:


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      And all with no annual fee*. That's a super value from a card with =
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      Michael J. Barrett
      President
      Chase Manhattan Bank USA, NA=20
    =20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
    =20
      *See Important Notices for details.=20

      Copyright 2001. The Chase Manhattan Bank Corporation. All rights =
reserved. The Chase Manhattan Bank. Member FDIC.=20

      You received this email because when you registered at iWon you =
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      This email has been sent to you by iWon on behalf of Chase =
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<!-- saved from url=3D(0043)http://209.35.161.222/NEWiWonChaseShell.htm =
--><!-- saved from =
url=3D(0095)http://www.greyemarketing.com/chase/acquisitions/plat_cont_sh=
ell_11092k/shell_11092k/index.html --><HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Shell</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff topMargin=3D0 marginheight=3D"0" =
marginwidth=3D"0">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm really getting tired of "G" dubyas=20
cronies.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:GreatOffers@feedback.iwon.com"=20
title=3DGreatOffers@feedback.iwon.com>Great Offers</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:mark@gold-arts.com"=20
title=3Dmark@gold-arts.com>mark@gold-arts.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 27, 2001 11:43 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Earn Free Gas</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>
<P><B><IMG height=3D56=20
src=3D"http://image.iwon.com/images/newsletter/chase_header.gif" =
width=3D506></B>=20
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      <P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: Times New Roman; =
mso-bidi-font-family: Courier New; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">You're=20
      invited to apply for the </SPAN><B><A=20
      =
href=3D"http://securecards.chase.com/servlet/at?target=3Dshellapp&amp;cre=
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      style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: Times New Roman; =
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      Chase.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
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        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD>
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            <P align=3Dleft></P></DIV>
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              <LI>
              <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A 5% rebate =
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  <TR>
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ortant=20
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Apr 2001 03:41:24 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Peru and you baby
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Peru and you baby.

This gutless peruvian pilot and his his CIA handlers should be shot on =
site has they shot on site innocent peoples.

Got Proplems with this message?

My name is Mark Somers=20

My fucking address is=20

4151 Phillip St.=20
Billings Montana 59101

Bring the fucking self rightous fight assholes.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/04/27/us.perucrash.funeral.ap/index.html


Yes you got it right "Bucky" with fucking balls.=20





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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peru and you baby.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This gutless peruvian pilot and his his =
CIA=20
handlers should be shot on site has they shot on site innocent=20
peoples.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Got Proplems with this =
message?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My name is Mark Somers </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My fucking address is </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4151 Phillip St. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Billings Montana 59101</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bring the fucking self rightous fight=20
assholes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/04/27/us.perucrash.funeral.ap/index.ht=
ml">http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/04/27/us.perucrash.funeral.ap/index.html</=
A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes you got it right "Bucky" with =
fucking balls.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date:         Sat, 28 Apr 2001 04:46:10 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Need more be said?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Dick!!!!!!



http://www.thenation.com/special/alfredw.mhtml



Gosh darn I know a Harvard Prof too ...... well kind of ............ ok =
sooooooooooo not really.


http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html


A Fuller Explanation



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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh =
Dick!!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.thenation.com/special/alfredw.mhtml">http://www.thenat=
ion.com/special/alfredw.mhtml</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gosh darn I know a Harvard Prof too =
...... well=20
kind of ............ ok sooooooooooo not really.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html">http://www.angelf=
ire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A Fuller Explanation</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Apr 2001 04:57:12 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Fw: Earn Free Gas

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            28-APR-2001  4:57
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Chase Manhattan actually began as water-piping service in NY.
 when people got cholera from their system,
 they got out of that business (it was municipalized or state-ized), and
 in to the pure game of rentier-financierism!
    did you see the predictions of $3/gallon gasoline,
 they're preparing us for, and the Senate's prediction
 of 3 "X" for all energy pricing, 3 weeks before Super Dick's report
 (the energy taskforce, yeeha) ??...  so,
 like the windfall of utility taxes that cities are having
 to deal with, this looks cherry for Chase; eh?...  perhaps,
 they're going to expand into being the e.e.police --
 the electronic energy police!

 just to reveal a modicum of restraint,
 I'm all for reducing the output of glass-house gasses,
 particularly from volcanoes. however,
 it should be done through the *dirigiste* method of tariffs,
 to help both the producing nations and the consuming ones.  although,
 it must certainly be said,
 the "fossil" cartels are perfectly happy
 to administer the profits of "global warning,"
 instead of the UN!

 thus quoth:
 Dear Friend,

        You're invited to apply for the Shell Platinum Credit Card from =
  Chase.  You'll earn unlimited free FormulaShell=AE gasoline:


                a.. A 5% rebate on Shell gasoline purchases made in the =
  U.S.=20
                b.. A 1% rebate on all other purchases made with your =
  Shell Platinum Credit Card from Chase=20
                c.. A low 5.99% APR* on purchases and balance transfers  =20

        And all with no annual fee*. That's a super value from a card with =
  two great names. Apply today and start saving with every gallon you =
 get pumped!=20

 --The Enron Liberation Front!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Apr 2001 05:16:47 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      flyers (usual fair-use restrictions, or no money involved)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            28-APR-2001  5:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 curiously, the "share file" message that I get,
 still promotes tha idea taht Xdrive.com is "free," although
 they're at least dumping me.  however,
 the share-file still works, even if that was the last time
 that I can share it; these files are available for a week.
    I'm resharing the quadrivium flyer and the poster-session sheet,
 as well as two that are political diatribes (one
 of which is 4-of-the-same), in that order.

 http://www.xdrive.com/share/988410372802wN6o1mTJpVoAWGPLSyKY
 http://www.xdrive.com/share/988410449937hzmt35dAb0mWUDiOv1LB
 http://www.xdrive.com/share/988410701862LuoO5vN2YjCD1x5bIrqy
 http://www.xdrive.com/share/988411547966d1DgtjqHVoQ5DyujXaTB

 and here's the "offer:"
 Make Xdrive Express your free hard drive on the Internet.  Try it today!
 SIGN UP NOW!=> http://www.xdrive.com/promo/sharefile?referee=6626052

 --The Enron Liberation Front!
 >  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Apr 2001 05:37:45 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      18-deltahedron (C-18) ??

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            28-APR-2001  5:37
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 note on flyers:
 there are a few niceties added to the two, since I could last save them
 to the service.  also, for the poster-explanation,
 I wanted to know a few things:
 what was Bucky's teacher's name at Milton Academy?
 I've used an umlaut to make "tetra-aster" etc., but
 what is the "accepted" form of writing such (English or Latin
 translation of Greek concatenation) ??
 although I said that the 18-deltahedron had a degenerate face,
 I realized (from Lobel's work) that that is generally not
 the case for an unclosed framework of trigona -- they flex.
 I had, maybe a year ago, thought that that facet
 would actually fold the putative hexagon in the middle,
 giving two tetragona (trapezoidal), but
 the general case is actually not convex -- the hexagon,
 by itself, is floppy.  I suspoect that it *is* convex and
 in that form, but I've never modeled it,
 as with straws & pipe-cleaners.  so,
 what is it?  (note:
 just remove one edge and fold (and preactically,
 remove two other edges, so no doubling .-)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:00:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] The News and \"Project Censored.\"

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            29-APR-2001  8:00
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 darn, no mention of the Supreme Court's nullification of March 27, 2000;
 as far as I know, it has only been reported-on in a local/free paper,
 the SM Mirror, but that was my letter -- outside of New Fedralist,
 of course.
    several of the "censored" stories are related,
 by the fact of the paradigm of "linear no-threshold"
 that has been used by the EPA et al, for ever.  (at least,
 as I'd wondered, they got rid of the DU horror-stories .-)
 [I'd complained to the then-president of PC,
 from CSU (Sonoma?), when he appeared a year or two ago
 at the local necromarksist bookstore.  now,
 with Noam on the masthead, it is truly uber-PC !-]

 thus qutoh:
  http://www.projectcensored.org/intro.htm
         What a perfect site and a needed resource.  Look around
  there and take time to read some of the stories.  Check out
  their resource links.  It's a great place to get to the real

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:11:11 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: 18-deltahedron (C-18) ??

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            29-APR-2001  8:11
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 addendum: when I noted that "unclosed" trigonated polyhedra (or
 deltahedra, that is) flex, a simple example is a pyramid (or
 half of an octahedron), or an icosah. with one of its "icosacaps,"
 removed.  just removing a single strut
 fron the icosah., makes it quite flexible,
 til you close the resulting tetragonal gap to make an 18-deltahedron
 -- unless the possible "degeneracy" of six trigona,
 making a hexagonal facet, makes it less rigid.
    so, in the context of *convex* polyhedra, specifically,
 omni-trigonated ones, any other n-gon (n not 3) for a facet
 will make it flexible.  so, any planar net
 of trigona (with 6 around every vertex) could be considered
 as having one large-n-gonal facet, around the perimeter.
    (apparently, there's a whole class of such nets,
 that are not closeable, in the sense of being completely trigonated .-)

 --The Duke of Oil!
 >http://www.tarpley.net

  SUBJECT: 18-deltahedron (C-18) ??
  MESSAGE   from ="List                             29-APR-20  7:38
  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            28-APR-2001  5:37
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   note on flyers:
   there are a few niceties added to the two, since I could last save them
   to the service.  also, for the poster-explanation,
   I wanted to know a few things:
   what was Bucky's teacher's name at Milton Academy?
   I've used an umlaut to make "tetra-aster" etc., but
   what is the "accepted" form of writing such (English or Latin
   translation of Greek concatenation) ??
   although I said that the 18-deltahedron had a degenerate face,
   I realized (from Lobel's work) that that is generally not
   the case for an unclosed framework of trigona -- they flex.
   I had, maybe a year ago, thought that that facet
   would actually fold the putative hexagon in the middle,
   giving two tetragona (trapezoidal), but
   the general case is actually not convex -- the hexagon,
   by itself, is floppy.  I suspoect that it *is* convex and
   in that form, but I've never modeled it,
   as with straws & pipe-cleaners.  so,
   what is it?  (note:
   just remove one edge and fold (and preactically,
   remove two other edges, so no doubling .-)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:36:53 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      E-news

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            29-APR-2001  8:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow, there's so much news-that-ought-to-be-censured!
    new Energy Czar Freeman's home-state of Tennesse is making a play
 for Calif. businesses, over our little e-thing; so,
 he'd better mind his Ps and Qs, and not try to roll us
 with any high-falutin jive about FDR (as I caught him doing, once,
 before any of this played-out !-)
    "Senate Panel Approves Repeal of Law Curbing Investment in Utilities,"
 a tiny piece in the *WSJ*, with a larger one in the NYT, and
 which may have been left un-noticed (by me) in the LATimes!  (of course,
 this is New Deal-era stuff, again, just as was the dumping
 of the Glass-Stegall Act with the "Financial Services Modernization Act
 of '99."  NB: I made the crucial error on the creation of this,
 viz the "pre-enablement" of it via the infamous 527 Cmtes., although
 that can be *read* in the propoer manner;
 this was pointed-out to me by a criminal law student (Loyala?),
 on the bus.  talk about your weird stories .-)

 back on the subject of "LNT," yesterday's NYT has a story
 about lead paint being stripped, and the lead migrating
 into the wood.  the needless part is re stripping "doors or
 window frames," like it's going to cause a big problem
 with kids (as usual, the problem is occupational, or in this case,
 avocational).  Tuesday had a story, pA1 in the LAT,
 "Uranium Waste Cleanup gets No US Funds," which I just realized
 was the subject of 2, joke-hysterical letters that I just read
 (they made jokes, but were seriously over-wrought).  it's about
 this rather miniscule pile of tailings from a uranium mine,
 near Moab, Utah; there certainly is some "controversy"
 over whether it'd actually effect the Colorado River water, but
 the whole thing is laughable, considering the massive flow of that, and
 the rather arid flow of the region, through the pile.  but, hey,
 it's headline news for the energy cartelmeisters!

 WSJ, April24, pA24, "For Alberta Power Users,
 Deregulation Turns Feast into Famine."  no comment, but
 there was another story about how Canada, as a whole, is weathering
 this e-crisis, mainly by a windfall in natl.gas.  next to
 the second page in a NYT article,
 "Ibndustry Gives Nukes a 2nd Look," "Profits More Than Double
 at Conoco and Exxon Mobil."  yeeha.

 the best for last on energy:
 yesterday's LAT noted the presence of PDJames and John Major
 at Barbara Bush's Celebration of Reading benefit.  more cravenly,
 as far as the "anglophilic" stuff goes, is the sane-day article
 in the NYT, "Bush Honors a Kingmaker and a Mentor,"
 concerning Bob Bullock (going back to the old TR mentorial thing,
 Teddy's Uncle Bullock).
    most importantly, "After Rejecting Climate Treaty,
 Bush Calls in Tutors to Give Courses and Help Set One" --
 like, "PM Cheney" and his energy taskforce report,
 3 weeks or so from now?

 >--The Duke of Oil!
 >>http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:21:11 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Live simply....

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            30-APR-2001  5:21
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, mister Martin, your "trrickle-down" is being gushed
 by the Amen Chorus of the supply-siders that the new regime is trying
 to appoint (so far without any opposition by the Dems,
 as with Ashcroft) from the Mont Pelerin affiliates,
 which are so-well represented in the media, as well.

 I find ms. Street's characterization, "the U.S. will not
  make any precipitate move toward decreasing consumption, no matter what,"
 to be plainly at odds with such legislation,
 as reported by EIRNS, below.

 This hype coheres with the a draft text for an "Electricity Emergency
 Act," being readied for filing by Rep. Joe Barton (R-Tex.), at the request
 of the White House. It calls for emergency rule. A report is below.

 III. New Bi-Partisan Senate Bill to
 Control Electricity Prices
 On April 24, Senators Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Gordon Smith
 (R-Ore.) held a press conference announcing their new legislation to
 control wholesale energy prices by forcing the Federal Energy Regulatory
 Commission (FERC) to use its legal power to mandate regional caps or
 cost-based pricing. The bill requires that within 60 days of passage, FERC
 must either institute wholesale price caps in 11 western states until March
 2003, or implement cost-based pricing over that period of time. Senator
 Feinstein said that these measures are necessary to ensure the stability
 and reliability of the electricity delivery in California, and that the
 "legislation is designed to force FERC to do its job so that the financial
 crisis does not get any worse than it already is." Republican Smith stated
 that he was initially reluctant to support controls, but "it's a mistake to
 defend a system that some can game to make incredible profits." He
 denounced the "exploitative pricing" now taking place.

 Energy Cartel Making Hyper-Profits
 Corporate reports for Q1 2001, show energy companies racking up
 mega-profits, contrasting with mass losses and lay-offs in other sectors.
 Examples:

 Enron Oil and Gas saw its first-quarter earnings increase more than
 fivefold. While its production of natural gas rose by 2.7%, the average
 price it received per thousand cubic feet rose from $2.29 to $6.19,
 compared to one year ago.


 ExxonMobil reported that its profits were up 51%, due to "strong" crude
 oil and natural gas prices, and "better profits" from refined fuels, such
 as gasoline. Fortune 500 this year ranked ExxonMobil the world's biggest
 company.


 Houston-based Conoco's first quarter profits rose 64%.
 IV. Senate Banking Committee Votes for
 Repeal of 1935 Public Utilities Holding Co. Act
 On April 24, the Senate Banking Committee, chaired by Sen. Phil Gramm
 (R-Tex.) voted 19-1 to repeal the 1935 Act. To go into effect, the entire
 Senate would have to approve it, but the move shows the flight-forward for
 more deregulation, hyper-profits, and economic destruction. The Act was
 enacted under President Franklin Delano Roosevelt to stop the kinds of
 practices that have again arisen today, where holding companies are setting
 up unregulated subsidiaries, playing shell games, and subverting the
 energy system.

 Typical of today's patterns is Warren Buffett, whose firm, Berkshire
 Hathaway, already owns most of MidAmerican Energy Co. of Des Moines (2.2
 million electricity customers, and 1.2 million gas customers) and stakes in
 other energy firms. He said he is ready and waiting with $10 billion more
 to position in utilities, if and when the 1935 Act is wiped off the books.

 V. Analysis: 'Electricity Emergency (Rule) Act'
 The draft text of the "Electricity Emergency Act," backed by Rep. Joe
 Barton (R-Tex.), chairman of the Energy Subcommittee of the House Interior
 Committee, is now in the mark-up stage, for introduction in early May. This
 has the backing of the White House, and is officially intended "to provide
 for electricity emergencies."

 First, what is absent from the bill is any intervention to stabilize
 out-of-control prices of electricity, or any other kind of energy. Second,
 there is no provision for making scarce electricity supplies reliable for
 priority sectors of the economy--food processing, farming, hospitals, water
 treatment, etc.

 The premise of the proposed law is that the current, deregulated
 "markets"-based system must prevail at all costs. Moreover, there are
 blatant provisions for furthering the special interests of various of the
 energy cartel companies. There are reports of efforts by Democrats to add
 to the bill some form of energy price controls on the cartels.

 There are two overall sections to the bill.

 Title OneGeneral Measures for Electric Energy Emergencies
 This has ten proposed sub-sections. The very first directs the Federal
 Emergency Management Agency to undertake emergency plans for states where
 electricity crises will hit. FEMA is to set priorities for who gets what
 energy. Another key sub-section directs the Federal Emergency Management
 Agency (FERC) to coordinate plans and requirements for some electricity
 users to forgo electricity, for use by others.

 Another sections spells out a grab-bag of proposals for reducing energy
 consumption--"demand control" includes such ideas as making Western states
 adjust their Standard time for savings on daylight.

 Several sub-sections specify give-aways to private energy cartel
 interests, in the name of "emergency."

 FERC is to be able to command any local electricity distribution system
 (e.g., in Nevada, which has been re-regulated) to open itself up for
 interconnection with whatever energy entity FERC commands.


 Any generation facility that isn't paid for its power within 60 days by
 some wholesale purchaser (such as California), can break its contract with
 the purchaser, and sell elsewhere. Thus, unreliability is guaranteed.


 FERC and the Secretary of Energy are to study and command where new
 electric transmission routes can go, and how they will operate. This is a
 top priority demand of the new cartel energy holding companies. The new
 bill may specify the use of eminent domain, to serve these private
 corporate plans.
 Title TwoAssistance Available Upon a Governor's Request
 There are ten proposed sub-sections. The first authorizes more government
 donations, in the name of helping poor people pay bills, to go to the
 energy cartel companies. A new fund is to be set up, under the Health and
 Human Services Department, to be available through the Low Income Home
 Energy Assistance (LIHEAP) plan, on request of state governors, on
 condition they declare they have an electricity emergency. There is no
 mention of staying cut-offs on households, or any other category of users
 faced with unpayable bills.

 More grab-bag "conservation" ideas are proposed, including giving
 governors, in states with declared electricity emergencies, authority to
 order Federal facilities to cut use by 10%.

 There are sub-sections setting aside environmental constraints on Federal
 hydro-power dams, and proposals to lift emission restrictions on natural
 gas plants and on-site generators.

 There are orders to remove constraints and expand the Western Area Power
 Administration. In specific there are orders to compel the creation of an
 RTO--Regional Transmission Organization--in the 13 western states. This is
 a major demand of the unregulated "power marketers."




 --The Duke of Oil?
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:29:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Live simply....

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            30-APR-2001  5:29
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, mister Martin, your "trrickle-down" is being gushed
 by the Amen Chorus of the supply-siders that the new regime is trying
 to appoint (so far without any opposition by the Dems,
 as with Ashcroft) from the Mont Pelerin affiliates,
 which are so-well represented in the media, as well.

 I find ms. Street's characterization, "the U.S. will not
  make any precipitate move toward decreasing consumption, no matter what,"
 to be plainly at odds with such legislation,
 as reported by EIRNS, below.

 This hype coheres with the a draft text for an "Electricity Emergency
 Act," being readied for filing by Rep. Joe Barton (R-Tex.), at the request
 of the White House. It calls for emergency rule. A report is below.

 III. New Bi-Partisan Senate Bill to
 Control Electricity Prices
 On April 24, Senators Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Gordon Smith
 (R-Ore.) held a press conference announcing their new legislation to
 control wholesale energy prices by forcing the Federal Energy Regulatory
 Commission (FERC) to use its legal power to mandate regional caps or
 cost-based pricing. The bill requires that within 60 days of passage, FERC
 must either institute wholesale price caps in 11 western states until March
 2003, or implement cost-based pricing over that period of time. Senator
 Feinstein said that these measures are necessary to ensure the stability
 and reliability of the electricity delivery in California, and that the
 "legislation is designed to force FERC to do its job so that the financial
 crisis does not get any worse than it already is." Republican Smith stated
 that he was initially reluctant to support controls, but "it's a mistake to
 defend a system that some can game to make incredible profits." He
 denounced the "exploitative pricing" now taking place.

 Energy Cartel Making Hyper-Profits
 Corporate reports for Q1 2001, show energy companies racking up
 mega-profits, contrasting with mass losses and lay-offs in other sectors.
 Examples:

 Enron Oil and Gas saw its first-quarter earnings increase more than
 fivefold. While its production of natural gas rose by 2.7%, the average
 price it received per thousand cubic feet rose from $2.29 to $6.19,
 compared to one year ago.


 ExxonMobil reported that its profits were up 51%, due to "strong" crude
 oil and natural gas prices, and "better profits" from refined fuels, such
 as gasoline. Fortune 500 this year ranked ExxonMobil the world's biggest
 company.


 Houston-based Conoco's first quarter profits rose 64%.
 IV. Senate Banking Committee Votes for
 Repeal of 1935 Public Utilities Holding Co. Act
 On April 24, the Senate Banking Committee, chaired by Sen. Phil Gramm
 (R-Tex.) voted 19-1 to repeal the 1935 Act. To go into effect, the entire
 Senate would have to approve it, but the move shows the flight-forward for
 more deregulation, hyper-profits, and economic destruction. The Act was
 enacted under President Franklin Delano Roosevelt to stop the kinds of
 practices that have again arisen today, where holding companies are setting
 up unregulated subsidiaries, playing shell games, and subverting the
 energy system.

 Typical of today's patterns is Warren Buffett, whose firm, Berkshire
 Hathaway, already owns most of MidAmerican Energy Co. of Des Moines (2.2
 million electricity customers, and 1.2 million gas customers) and stakes in
 other energy firms. He said he is ready and waiting with $10 billion more
 to position in utilities, if and when the 1935 Act is wiped off the books.

 V. Analysis: 'Electricity Emergency (Rule) Act'
 The draft text of the "Electricity Emergency Act," backed by Rep. Joe
 Barton (R-Tex.), chairman of the Energy Subcommittee of the House Interior
 Committee, is now in the mark-up stage, for introduction in early May. This
 has the backing of the White House, and is officially intended "to provide
 for electricity emergencies."

 First, what is absent from the bill is any intervention to stabilize
 out-of-control prices of electricity, or any other kind of energy. Second,
 there is no provision for making scarce electricity supplies reliable for
 priority sectors of the economy--food processing, farming, hospitals, water
 treatment, etc.

 The premise of the proposed law is that the current, deregulated
 "markets"-based system must prevail at all costs. Moreover, there are
 blatant provisions for furthering the special interests of various of the
 energy cartel companies. There are reports of efforts by Democrats to add
 to the bill some form of energy price controls on the cartels.

 There are two overall sections to the bill.

 Title OneGeneral Measures for Electric Energy Emergencies
 This has ten proposed sub-sections. The very first directs the Federal
 Emergency Management Agency to undertake emergency plans for states where
 electricity crises will hit. FEMA is to set priorities for who gets what
 energy. Another key sub-section directs the Federal Emergency Management
 Agency (FERC) to coordinate plans and requirements for some electricity
 users to forgo electricity, for use by others.

 Another sections spells out a grab-bag of proposals for reducing energy
 consumption--"demand control" includes such ideas as making Western states
 adjust their Standard time for savings on daylight.

 Several sub-sections specify give-aways to private energy cartel
 interests, in the name of "emergency."

 FERC is to be able to command any local electricity distribution system
 (e.g., in Nevada, which has been re-regulated) to open itself up for
 interconnection with whatever energy entity FERC commands.


 Any generation facility that isn't paid for its power within 60 days by
 some wholesale purchaser (such as California), can break its contract with
 the purchaser, and sell elsewhere. Thus, unreliability is guaranteed.


 FERC and the Secretary of Energy are to study and command where new
 electric transmission routes can go, and how they will operate. This is a
 top priority demand of the new cartel energy holding companies. The new
 bill may specify the use of eminent domain, to serve these private
 corporate plans.
 Title TwoAssistance Available Upon a Governor's Request
 There are ten proposed sub-sections. The first authorizes more government
 donations, in the name of helping poor people pay bills, to go to the
 energy cartel companies. A new fund is to be set up, under the Health and
 Human Services Department, to be available through the Low Income Home
 Energy Assistance (LIHEAP) plan, on request of state governors, on
 condition they declare they have an electricity emergency. There is no
 mention of staying cut-offs on households, or any other category of users
 faced with unpayable bills.

 More grab-bag "conservation" ideas are proposed, including giving
 governors, in states with declared electricity emergencies, authority to
 order Federal facilities to cut use by 10%.

 There are sub-sections setting aside environmental constraints on Federal
 hydro-power dams, and proposals to lift emission restrictions on natural
 gas plants and on-site generators.

 There are orders to remove constraints and expand the Western Area Power
 Administration. In specific there are orders to compel the creation of an
 RTO--Regional Transmission Organization--in the 13 western states. This is
 a major demand of the unregulated "power marketers."




 --The Duke of Oil?
 http://www.tarpley.net