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Date:         Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:00:59 -0700
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From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

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 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
                           -----------------------
                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
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Date:         Fri, 1 Jun 2001 07:24:23 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: GEODESIC DOME

George,

See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeSpaceFar.htm
        http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeSpaceNear.htm

and http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeCityCloud.htm
        http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeCityCloudDetail.htm

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

"Jack Lazariuk" <lazariuk@mac.com> wrote in message
news:lazariuk-DBFC90.16175631052001@news1.sshe1.sk.home.com...

> In article <9er3mj$kau$1@newsie.singa.pore.net>,
>  "George" <fecomsg@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Is it theorhetically possible to build a geodesic dome that can reach a
> > height in low earth orbit?
>
> The first I ever heard of Buckminster Fuller was Salvador Dali saying
> that this American genius Fuller was building structures that looked
> like they were prepared to leave the ground and float into the sky. That
> was the bait that got me hooked over thirty years ago.
>
> Imagine being able to shelter and tenderly embrace and have the
> sheltering itself lifting us higher.
>
> Seems theorhetically possible to me. Must have also seemed so to Ezra
> Pound who called Bucky a friend of the universe, a bringer of happiness
> and liberator.
>
> Jack
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:02:36 -0700
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From:         qari hilal <swo_qari@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Golden Jubilee Quranic Exhibition
Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu, geograph@seam.sunet.su,
          gguide@uga.cc.uga.edu, gophern@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu,
          govdoc-l@psuvm.psu.edu, graph-ti@lists.ppp.ti.com,
          gutnberg@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Golden Jubilee Quranic Exhibition from June 2

KARACHI: The ancient, extremely rare and modern
masterpieces of the Holy Qur'aan will be displayed at
a three-day exhibition being held at Khalikdina Hall,
Karachi from June 2.

This is announced on Thursday by Abdul Razzak Tasty of
Memon Khidmat Forum and Syed Ali Jauhar Jafferi of The
Quran Foundation.

The "Golden Jubilee Quranic Exhibition" will begin at
4:00 pm on Saturday and continue from 10:00 am to
10:00 pm on June 3 and 4.

Being put on display at the exhibition will be:

* World's heaviest Quranic manuscript weighing 210 kg
and containing 1,084 pages. In 3x2 feet size, each of
its page has 7 kg weight.
* A 1250-year-old manuscript written in the ancient
Ibrani language
* 300-year-old manuscripts
* Highly attractive and modern printed masterpieces of
the Holy Qur'aan
* Copies of Qur'aan in unique index and various
calligraphic styles
* A copy of Qur'aan with every line starting with
Arabic alphabet 'Alif'
* A copy of Qur'aan with every line starting with
Arabic alphabet 'Wao'
* A copy of Qur'aan with every page starting with an
'Aayat' (verse)
* A copy of Qur'aan printed on Braille System
* World's smallest copy of the Holy Qur'aan
* Translations of the Holy Qur'aan in various
international and regional languages
* Para Aam with each page written in different
calligraphic style
* Suraa-e-al Hamd written in seven different
calligraphic styles
* Poetic translation of the Holy Qur'aan
* Interpretations (Tafaseers)
* Computer programmes
* Programmes to help memorize the Holy Qur'aan
* Programmes for correct pronunciation




Qari Hilal Ahmed Rabbani        Syed Ali Johar Jafri            Haji
Masood Parekh
Honorary Chief Librarian        Chairman                        Founder &
Chairman
& Senior Vice President         Qur'aan Foundation              Memon
Khidmat Forum
Khalik Dina Hall
Library Association
M.A.Jinnah Road,
Karachi-74200,
Pakistan.












The executive committee of Memon Khidmat Forum, The
Qur'aan Foundation, Khalikdina Hall Association and
Students Welfare Organization will arrange a three-day
"Golden Jubilee Qur'aanic Exhibition" at Khalikdina
Hall, Karachi on Saturday, June 2. The exhibition will
begin at 4:00 PM on Saturday and continue from 10:00
am to 10:00 PM on June 3 and 4.

The ancient, extremely rare and modern masterpieces of
the Holy Qur'aan, will be displayed at the exhibition.
All these manuscripts of the Holy Qur'aan have been
collected from various parts of the world.

On display at the exhibition will be:

* World's heaviest Quranic manuscript weighing 210 kg
and containing 1,084 pages. In 3x2 feet size, each of
its page has 7 kg weight.
* A 1250-year-old manuscript written in the ancient
Ibrani language
* 300-year-old manuscripts
* Manuscripts written in Gold and Turquoise water
* Highly attractive and modern printed masterpieces of
the Holy Qur'aan
* Copies of Qur'aan in unique index and various
calligraphic styles
* A copy of Qur'aan with every line starting with
Arabic alphabet 'Alif'
* A copy of Qur'aan with every line starting with
Arabic alphabet 'Wao'
* A copy of Qur'aan with every page starting with an
'Aayat' (verse)
* A copy of Qur'aan printed on Braille System
* World's smallest copy of the Holy Qur'aan
* Translations of the Holy Qur'aan in various
international and regional languages
* Paarah Amam with each page written in different
calligraphic style
* Suraa-e-al Hamd written in seven different
calligraphic styles
* Poetic translation of the Holy Qur'aan
* Interpretations (Tafaseer)
* Computer programmes
* Programmes to help memorize the Holy Qur'aan
* Programmes for correct pronunciation



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Jun 2001 20:12:29 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         J & D Goldman <jmgoldma@DWX.COM>
Subject:      Noise control in structures
Comments: To: domesteading@sculptors.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greetings all,
  I've heard mixed reviews on the fate of sound waves in domes. Some
say they make great resonators and noise can be a problem.  Sure, if
your dome is well away from roads, railroads, airport flight paths,
chainsaws, snowmobiles, etc, good for you!  But then, there are the
rest of us...
    Recently I was doing some self study on the topic and came across
some information I wanted to share. These are things I would want to
know a fair bit about very early in the planning stages of
construction, certainly *BEFORE* materials were bought or nailed up.
The focus is usually on new construction, but some of this might also
work for retrofits.

www.soundproofing.org
  Good web site with useful products and information. They mention an
important EPA manual on noise suppression written in 1976, which they
offer for sale as a reprint. I have it on order through interlibrary
loan so I can see if its worth purchasing.

Resilient Channel, known as RC1, or Furring channel (FC)
  If you are going to be hanging sheetrock, you want to learn about
this stuff. The idea is to make sure there is an air gap between the
sheetrock and the studs to cut down on the transmission of the causal
vibrations.  One can combine this with special forms of insulation
made especially for acoustic dampening, and various foam mats which
tend to eat some frequencies.  Looks like a bargain at wholesale
places
I checked, its about $1.50 for 12 feet of the rail. Also, some thick
clear vinyl sheeting
used to cut noise but allow light transmission - for windows or hall
ways. See:
www.soundproofing.org/infopages/channel.htm
www.dietrichindustries.com

Ownes Corning sells their "Quietzone" system, which has a two piece
stud which gives you the air gap by using some z shaped brackets.  I'm
not this is available to DIYers but it is rather interesting.
www.owenscorning.com

There is a lot more out there, but these were especially interesting
to me from a standpoint of what I might be able to do on my own.

Hope this helps someone. If any of you have successes or
not-so-successes to tell the rest of us about, I would like to hear of
your experiences.

-Dan G.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:17:14 -0400
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Noise control in structures
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dan G wrote:
<<Hope this helps someone. If any of you have successes or
not-so-successes to tell the rest of us about, I would like to hear of
your experiences.>>

        I have an uninsulated 32' dome workshop which does concentrate th=
e
faintest of noises to the very center of the dome.   Anywhere but the
center seems pretty much like an average enclosed space.  =

        I have a 24' diameter workshop that is insulated with 5/16" tripl=
e
layered bubbled reflective Reflectix insulation.  It is not only quiet
inside but the noise from the loud equipment doesn't bleed out to the
neighbors.
        I have built panels for a 38' diameter dome which separates the
sheathing from the framework with a compound layer of 3/4" Cellutex and a=

bubbled 5/16" layer of Reflectix.  When ever I find the property to set u=
p
the structure, I expect to have a minimum of reflective sound anywhere in=

the entire structure.   For photos of the panel fabrication process, go t=
o
"updated fabrication" at URL:  http://hometown.aol.com/dometruss
         When sheetrock is applied, an additional layer of 3/4" Cellutex =
is
placed between the sheetrock and the inside face of the panel.
       The Reflectix in bulk cost around $.33/s.f. while the 3/4" Cellute=
x
cost around the same per square foot.  It provides a summer time R-factor=

of around R-23 while at the same time  providing a quite living
environment.   This type of construction can be upgraded to around R-40
when used with 2x4 panel construction.  The panels are insulated on the
ground before assembling the dome, which makes the operation quick and
easy.
Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 Jun 2001 05:28:47 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: trihedron?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            02-JUN-2001  5:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I thought I was looking at a map of the Hollow Earth.
    seriously, he says it's a Steiner surface at
 http://www.ipfw.edu/math/Coffman/  but
 his other interesting topics
 -- "generaliza5tion of stereo projection" etc. --
 are relegated to conference-titles!

 other than that, I have nothing to multiply.
    well, it seems to be a sort of tetrahedron (or
 tetrasteron), with the usual 4 facets and 4 vertices,
 all of which are trihedral!

 thus quoth:
  What say you, Brian?

  Dick

 --Les Ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 Jun 2001 05:36:05 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] compact fluorescents

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            02-JUN-2001  5:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 so, how long do you wait for the white LCDs to be priced,
 for you to insist that everyone screw up those light-things?
    in the long run, new housing is replaced (or renovated)
 with the new stuff.  (according to a formulation
 by Bucky Fuller, there's a 42-year "lagtime"
 in the transition of "livingry" technolgies, but
 I haven't seen the basis for the calculation .-)

 thte primary result of the Jeffords play-act (or,
 it will be, if the Dems are not made to move their butts,
 contrary to the professed intention of Daschle) is that
 nuclear power is going to be further downgraded,
 both in terms of development and storage of the bug-a-boo,
 low-level waste (Yucca Flats), if only for the "fossil" folks!

 thus quoth:

 --Les Ducs d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 Jun 2001 05:43:56 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] AI on China

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            02-JUN-2001  5:43
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the origins of AI are British, viz hsitorical relations.  that said,
 the stuff about Tibet, as a continuously "godkingly" irritant
 to China's border, is routinely falsified by the Tibetan community
 in India, Hollywood and London.  start with the fact that
 most of the stuff about murdered monks & nuns is an anachronism,
 from the overthrow of the feudalist system
 during the Cultural Revolutionl -- it's even so-stated
 in "Kundun," although from Commie Propoganda on the shortwave,
 a I hero (the Goddude) is listening in his Royal Chambers!

 thus quoth:
  In China , the crackdown on religious groups and ethnic
  minorities                                  continued unabated. Hundreds
 of
  followers of "heretical" religious
  or                                  spiritual movements were arrested and
  reportedly tortured. At least 93                                  Falun
  Gong followers were believed to have died in custody and hundreds
  of                          Buddhist nuns and monks remained in detention
  in Tibet. Ethnic Uighurs                                  labelled as
  "separatists" or "terrorists" were executed mostly after secret or
 summary
  trials where convictions were based on confessions extracted  under
  torture. Thousands remained in prison.

 >--Les Ducs d'Enron!
 >>http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Jun 2001 00:02:52 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Climate Change
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A Report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC):=20

"Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis" (Jan 20, 2001)

 http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/spm22-01.pdf

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A Report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate =
Change=20
(IPCC): </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis" (Jan 20, =

2001)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/spm22-01.pdf">http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/spm22=
-01.pdf</A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Joe S Moore<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net">joemoore@qwest.net</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EC89.B2C36B40--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:16:04 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: trihedron?
In-Reply-To:  <200106021228.f52CSlR23706@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Yeah, Brian, on a second look I see what you see, too.

Dick
>  other than that, I have nothing to multiply.
>     well, it seems to be a sort of tetrahedron (or
>  tetrasteron), with the usual 4 facets and 4 vertices,
>  all of which are trihedral!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:47:06 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Nature 5/24/01

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            04-JUN-2001 11:47
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 OK, I finally looked at this IPCC precis, and it's interesting.
 too bad, I can't clip from the PDF doc, but
 the most interesting (to me) statements are on pages 2, 5, 16,
 as follows.

 2% increase in cloudcover is "likely"
 over land in mid to high lats in the 20cce.
 high-temp. daily min. ocer land "likely" increased
 by 0.2 deg.C. AT NIGHT, twice the increase of daytime!
    "The Antarctic ice sheet is likely to gain mass because
 of greater precip." ... "loss of grounded ice [following a collapse
 of the W.Ant. ice sheet; they should have noted that
 they're referringto the Ross Ice Shelf, meaning that it's floating]
 leading to substantial see level rise ... is now widely agreed
 to be unlikely" !!

 there are several other things that pop-out on inspection, but
 require more typing.

 also, the Nature study is intersting, because
 it treats of CO2 as another part of plant nutrition,
 of which there are many elements -- although
 thte assumption about it increading by 60% may be over-the-top,
 if rather commonplace for the simulacra-jockeys!
 " € Limited carbon storage under increased CO2 pp 431-3, 466-71"

 thus quoth:
  A Report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC):=20

  "Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis" (Jan 20, 2001)

   http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/spm22-01.pdf

  Joe S Moore
  joemoore@qwest.net
  http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
  Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

 --Les Ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:03:31 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      PUBLIC SCHOOLING NEEDS YOU

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            04-JUN-2001 12:03
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, this is cool.  now, I wish that I were on a local board,
 in time for tomorrow's election (in which both candidates
 have made noises about a joint city/schooldistrict authority).
    the trouble is that the Mayor created a key problem,
 the continued busing of 2000 kids
 --the closest to City Hall, for irony, of hisghschool age--
 and all of the local media routinely propund the big white lie
 of environmental racism, that the Mayor used
 to stop the Belmont Learning Center from opening!
    the only exceptions that I know, are the 10/31/99 LATimes article
 (a Hallowe'en Sunday), and last May 4th's LAWeekly.com
 (cover-story of a local "free" paper; an excellent *mea culpa* .-)
    (New Times, another freebie, also exposed the Mayor's gambit
 of making the district look worse than it is;
 it seems that the Mayor's cjosen successor made a nasty deal,
 rather accidentally-on-purpose, or vise-versa !-)

  AMERICA'S MOST TALENTED SUPERINTENDENT
  L.A. Superintendent Roy Romer may be the most talented man ever to run a
 big-city school district. After months of watching Romer closely, some are
 convinced that his experience, skills, and intellect make him the most
 talented
 person ever to hold the superintendent's job in Los Angeles, and perhaps
 in the
 nation. Some also believe Romer is almost certain to fail, if by success
 we
 mean moving the needle on poor student achievement in a meaningful,
 lasting
 way.
  http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0106.miller.html

 from =pen@publiceducation.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:39:36 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
Comments: To: Glenda Sawtell <Glenda.Sawtell@campac.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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June 5, 2001

Denis Davis
SE Queensland
Australia

Dear Dennis,

As you probably know, I maintain a web site with, among other things, a =
"Master Index" of people & topics relevant to Bucky Fuller's work.  The =
physical basis of this online index is a set of off-line (old fashioned) =
binders in 6 large bookcases.  My entire collection of Bucky-related =
materials will someday be donated to Stanford University Library's "R =
Buckminster Fuller Archives Special Collection".  (It's in my will.)

I would like to add you to my collection--both on & off-line under "D" & =
also in the "Dome" section.  Any materials that you wish to send me =
either electronically or by postal mail will be greatly appreciated.

By the way, I moved from California--too expensive.  I now live at the =
following address:

5424 N. Linda Place
Tucson, AZ 85704

Sincerely,

Joe S Moore

joemoore@qwest.net (NEW)

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Glenda Sawtell=20
  To: Joe S Moore=20
  Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 9:56 PM
  Subject: Re: Hi-Tek Domes


  Hi Joe=20
  I don't have a website hawvever I do have lots of pics that I can send =
you.
  I like the work that you are doing on your web site. I do feel a =
little isolated here in Australia and  it costs heaps to do pioneering =
on domes. I do agree humanity needs to find better ways to do a lot of =
things especially adopting hi tek shelter systems.
  By the way Joe I have been to Santa Cruz and loved it there My family =
and I stayed in  Aptos in 1997 and made it our base to travel and see =
....it has a very similar feel to it as to where I live here on the =
Sunshine coast in South East Queensland.=20
  regards Denis Davis
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Joe S Moore=20
    To: harmony@campac.net.au=20
    Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 3:13 AM
    Subject: Hi-Tek Domes


    Denis,

    Do you have a web site?  I like the kind of R&D that you are doing =
re geodesic domes.  There's no way we could house mankind using wood!

    Joe S Moore
    joemoore@qwest.net
    http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
    Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C0ED9B.0D2C6160
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#00ffff>
<DIV><STRONG>June 5, 2001</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Denis Davis</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>SE Queensland</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Australia</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Dear Dennis,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>As you probably know, I maintain a web site with, among =
other=20
things,&nbsp;a "Master Index" of people &amp; topics relevant to Bucky =
Fuller's=20
work.&nbsp; The physical basis of this online index is a set of off-line =
(old=20
fashioned) binders in 6 large bookcases.&nbsp; My&nbsp;entire collection =
of=20
Bucky-related materials will someday be donated to Stanford University =
Library's=20
"R Buckminster Fuller Archives Special Collection". &nbsp;(It's in my=20
will.)</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I would like to add you to my collection--both on &amp; =
off-line=20
under "D" &amp; also in the "Dome" section.&nbsp; Any materials that you =
wish to=20
send me either electronically or by postal mail will be greatly=20
appreciated.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>By the way, I moved from California--too expensive.&nbsp; I =
now=20
live at the following address:</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>5424 N. Linda Place</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Tucson, AZ 85704</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Sincerely,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Joe S Moore</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net"><STRONG>joemoore@qwest.net</STRONG></A=
><STRONG>&nbsp;(NEW)</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute</STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DGlenda.Sawtell@campac.net.au=20
  href=3D"mailto:Glenda.Sawtell@campac.net.au">Glenda Sawtell</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djoemoore@qwest.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net">Joe S Moore</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 03, 2001 =
9:56 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Hi-Tek Domes</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Joe </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't have a website hawvever I do =
have lots of=20
  pics that&nbsp;I can send you.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I like the work that you are doing on =
your web=20
  site. I do feel a little isolated here in Australia and&nbsp; it costs =
heaps=20
  to do pioneering on domes. I do agree humanity needs to find better =
ways to do=20
  a lot of things especially adopting hi tek shelter =
systems.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>By the way Joe I have been to Santa =
Cruz and=20
  loved it there My family and I stayed in&nbsp; Aptos in 1997 and made =
it our=20
  base to travel and see ....it has a very similar feel to it as to =
where I live=20
  here on the Sunshine coast in South East Queensland. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards Denis Davis</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Djoemoore@qwest.net href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net">Joe =
S Moore</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dharmony@campac.net.au=20
    href=3D"mailto:harmony@campac.net.au">harmony@campac.net.au</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 01, 2001 =
3:13=20
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Hi-Tek Domes</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Denis,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Do you have a web site?&nbsp; I like the kind of =
R&amp;D=20
    that you are doing re geodesic domes.&nbsp; There's no way we could =
house=20
    mankind using wood!</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Joe S Moore<BR><A=20
    href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net">joemoore@qwest.net</A><BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>Buckminster=20
    Fuller Virtual =
Institute</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C0ED9B.0D2C6160--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:22:16 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dick,

If all of humanity is to be properly housed, the most advanced technologies
& mass-production techniques must be used.  Anything less will not do the
job.  Using technology that does the most with the least is obvious.

One of the questions to be answered is: Which materials are of sufficient
quantity to meet the projected global demand?  Are there enough metals?  If
not, then "man-made" materials must be used.

I really don't know the answer, but my hunch is man-made materials is the
way to go because there is potentially no limit to the quantity that could
be produced.  I note that Bucky's bathroom was intended to be produced out
of fiberglass & his Fly's Eye prototypes used fiberglass.

However, I don't see any problem with using both metals &
plastics--depending on the circumstances.

Whatever material is used should meet at least the following criteria:

Can't burn
Won't rot
Can't be eaten by bugs

The "Living Machine" itself should be portable & self-contained.

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net (NEW)
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com>
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Hi-Tek Domes


> Joe- I live in a steel dome, 26-gauge galvenized. It cost $400 and
> weighs 700 pounds. It is 20 feet wide x 10 feet tall.
>
> Question- What do you think about the best overall material for
> mass-produced shelter? Aluminum, steel, other? Coatings are a pain in
> the butt. Aluminum lasts a long time. I lean toward aluminum. You
> must have thought about this. Thanks.
>
> Dick
>
> >     Denis,
> >
> >     Do you have a web site?  I like the kind of R&D that you are
> > doing re geodesic domes.  There's no way we could house mankind
> > using wood!
> >
> >     Joe S Moore
> >     joemoore@qwest.net
> >     http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >     Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:15:58 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
Comments: To: joemoore@qwest.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I really don't know the answer, but my hunch is man-made materials
> is the
> way to go because there is potentially no limit to the quantity that
> could
> be produced.
>
> However, I don't see any problem with using both metals &
> plastics--depending on the circumstances.

Well, fiberglass is made from one of the most plentiful materials
available on earth, glass.  But, the resin is a potential problem.
For a good example, look at the Trabant.  (Phenolic resins binding
a cellulose matrix)

Are today's resins still produced from oil?  If so, this might be
an irresponsible use of the precious oil reserves.  (For reference,
burning it is also a pretty despicable use of it, too)

> Whatever material is used should meet at least the following
> criteria:
>
> Can't burn
> Won't rot
> Can't be eaten by bugs

Do we really want it to be that long lived?   (centuries, at least)
Or, like a wooden house, do we want it to be biodegradable?

Paper products spring to mind, as do compressed straw panels
(similar to OSB) and several other renewable and/or recyclable
products.

Say, what is the energy requirement for recycling aluminum?  It'd
be an excellent sheathing material, and is completely recyclable -- but
at what cost?

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:32:17 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

> Say, what is the energy requirement for recycling aluminum?  It'd
> be an excellent sheathing material, and is completely recyclable -- but
> at what cost?
 >      -- Chuck Knight

Something like 5% of the poriginal requirement.
It conducts heat well, and usually corrodes just 1 molocule deep.
Fatique-wise it is wierd.  It always fatiques, eventually, and is why bikes could be made a mere fraction of the weight of steel, etc, but instead are almost as much, to compensate somewhat for eventuakl obsolesence.  In a fixed structure this would be far less,
I suspect, of an issue.
BillSF9c
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:42:39 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: please submit to this inquiry for the dome members
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Charlie,

See my list of dome manufacturers at:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm
(Scroll down to "Domes/Manufacturers")

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:18 AM
Subject: please submit to this inquiry for the dome members


> From: STIMCAP@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:08:40 EDT
>
> Hello! I am interested in purchasing a ready made dome home
> kit to be delivered to Central Kentucky. I will be starting
> construction of the home I choose next summer. My question I
> would like to propose here is as follows: Can someone please
> forward a list of Dome Home Kit manufacturers? I am
> interested in comparison shopping all of them and want to
> visit as many manufacturers as possible before I make a
> final decision. I have the property and want to replace an
> old mobile home that is currently there now. I would like to
> have a list of kit manufacturers within driving distance of
> Louisville, KY. so I can go see and would even like to pitch
> in and help build one before I purchase my Dome kit to get
> some hands on experience. Thank You in advance for your
> help.
> Sincerely,
> Charlie Gokey
> stimcap@aol.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 Jun 2001 06:46:47 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Fw: Bucky Fuller Project
Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>,
          "Institute, Buckminster Fuller" <info@bfi.org>,
          "Institute, World Game" <wgi@worldgame.org>
Comments: cc: "Meisen, Peter" <peter@geni.org>,
          "Perk, Bill" <billperk@midwest.net>,
          "Siegmund, Mark" <Tetworld@highstream.net>,
          "Urner, Kirby" <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>, "Mack, Ben" <mack@wongdoody.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Soojung-Kim Pang" <apang@stanford.edu>
To: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: Bucky Fuller Project


> Dear Mr. Moore,
>
> Some time ago you asked for detail about the Buckminster Fuller project
that
> I'm developing here at Stanford. Briefly, we are planning to publish this
> summer a Web site with a detailed sample of the Fuller papers, which were
> deposited at Stanford in 1999.
>
> My plan is to focus in this phase on "Fuller in the Fifties," and to
include
> correspondence, speeches, manuscripts, slides and photographs, and if
> technology and bandwidth permit, a selection of the extensive audio and
> video collection. If funding permits, we'll expand the site to include
> material from other decades.
>
> The exhibit will probably go live in late July or early August, but we've
> not set a definite date yet.
>
> Best,
> Alex Pang
> ------------------------------
> Alex Soojung-Kim Pang, Ph.D.
> Home page: http://www.stanford.edu/~apang/
> Producer, "Making the Macintosh:" http://library.stanford.edu/mac/
> Project Manager, Buckminster Fuller Digitization Project
>
> "We need works of reference, not books."
> -- Pliny the Elder, Natural History
> ------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:55:47 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
In-Reply-To:  <003d01c0edd5$b9e6c6e0$7b82fea9@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear All,

++++++++++++++++++
I have found this thread to be most interesting.  I feel compelled to throw in
my two cents.  Be warned, this message is a little on the long side.  It deals
in general with Life Cycle Assessment (LCA) issues with regards to various
building materials.
++++++++++++++++++

I don't know that the assumption that humanity cannot be housed in wood
structures is entirely correct.  Certainly, if we assume that we are talking
about chopping up trees into dimensional lumber, then I would tend to agree.
If we are talking about wood composites, then I'm not so sure.  Wood
composites
comprise everything from plywood, to medium density fiberboard (MDF), to
engineered lumber I-beam joists.

These products all have the same thing in common:  they are made by
chopping up
trees in some manner into smaller pieces and then binding them together with
glue.  The most common glue used in all of these products today is
urea-formaldehyde based resins that are derived from oil.  Concerns about
breathing in VOC's, of which formaldehyde is one (not to mention the VOC's
emitted from ground-up wood) are fairly well known.  Indoor air quality
suffers
in areas where such materials are used.  To my knowledge, no non-petroleum
based resins are being used to manufacture wood composites.  A few companies
are offering products which have greatly reduced off-gassing of VOC's,
however.

The advantage of these products is that nearly every bit of the tree is
used to
make product.  What can't be put into the actual product is burned during the
production process for energy.  Also, trees that previously weren't
commercially viable now are, not for their uniform logs, but for their
fibers.
This means that a truly sustainable forestry practice CAN be set up.  A
certain
acreage can be set aside to raise fast growing hardwood trees (perhaps even
genetically engineered - this may give some people qualms (me included), but
research is happening in this area) which can be harvested every 15 - 20 years
that will keep engineered lumber plants running 24-7 perpetually.  There is
some movement in this direction in the industry.  Even salvaged wood can be
used to make engineered lumber.  There is a company in California that
disposes
of untainted wooden construction waste by grinding it up and selling it to an
MDF production facility.

The disadvantage of these materials is that they have a high embodied energy.
This comes from the amount of BTU's inherent in the wood fibers themselves
combined with the embodied energy of the resins used and the energy used to
produce the resins and the energy used to manufacture the actual wood
products.  Transportation costs are sometimes also added into embodied energy
calculations, which can be considerable if the type of engineered lumber you
require for your project is only manufactured in one place in the world.

Fiberglass and carbon fiber composites are remarkably similar to composite
wood
products.  A man-made fiber is simply substituted for the natural fiber.
Other
natural fibers, such as agricultural 'waste' (i.e. wheat straw), bamboo, and
grasses can also be used for some products.  In my mind, bamboo, is by far,
the
most promising alternative candidate.

My guess is that the embodied energy calculation for man-made fiber composites
will be much higher than for natural fiber composites.  You must add the
energy
required to manufacture the fiber, the rather large amounts of resin required
(my guess is several times more than for natural fiber composites), and the
additional transportation costs involved.  Almost certainly, the net number of
kg-miles shipped around for glass or carbon fibers alone is going to be higher
than for wood fibers because some sort of mining operation is involved.

I don't know much about aluminum other than the following.  Virgin aluminum
has
very high embodied energy costs.  Recycled aluminum has considerably lower
energy costs.  I don't know how aluminum compares to composite products in
embodied energy.  I would be interested to know.  One thing to consider with
aluminum and any structural element in a building is that aluminum is one of
the best conductors of heat that there is.  It is many times more conductive
than steel, even.  If aluminum is going to be used anywhere in a building, it
should be, to the greatest extent possible, conductively decoupled from the
insulated interior spaces.

Life Cycle Assessment is the specific discipline that deals with complicated
material issues such as these.  I want to be clear that what I have said here
does not mean that I am for or against any particular material.  Material
selection should always to be conducted taking into account all design goals,
including environmental concerns, product longevity, reusability,
recyclability, compostability (in that order), long-term maintenence costs,
production costs, disposal costs, transportation costs, generation of
hazardous
and non-hazardous waste, energy consumption during product life, and lots of
others.  Every situation and every product is different.  The best method we
have currently to deal with such complex criteria trade-offs is LCA's.

No one can know for sure what is best in all situations.  The simplest of
consumer choices, paper or plastic grocery bags - cloth or disposable diapers,
are extremely complex and often ambiguous.  I too have dreams of building a
dome someday.  I look forward to hearing from the rest of you as to what you
feel are the best material choices.

Thanks for your attention,

Brent Verrill
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:34:32 -0500
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>  It deals
> in general with Life Cycle Assessment (LCA) issues with regards to
> various
> building materials.

And rightfully so.

> I don't know that the assumption that humanity cannot be housed in
> wood
> structures is entirely correct.  Certainly, if we assume that we are

Bravo, thinking outside the box!  Excellent start.

> Wood
> composites
> comprise everything from plywood, to medium density fiberboard
> (MDF), to
> engineered lumber I-beam joists.

There are other products that are similar, and require only a single
season to grow.  Example, compressed straw-composite panels are
a direct replacement for MDF sheathing, and straw is simple to grow
in almost any climate.

> glue.  The most common glue used in all of these products today is
> urea-formaldehyde based resins that are derived from oil.  Concerns

Excellent point.  Finger jointed lumber is a step in the right direction
though, and this requires MUCH less glue.

> make product.  What can't be put into the actual product is burned

Not necessarily true, though this should be.  Using your own waste
to fuel your own pursuits is an excellent way to go.

> This means that a truly sustainable forestry practice CAN be set up.

Even given the requirement of dimensional lumber production,
sustainable forestry could be set up.  As I understand it, this type
of thing has been done in Europe for centuries.

> some movement in this direction in the industry.  Even salvaged wood
> can be
> used to make engineered lumber.  There is a company in California

Salvaged wood could be better utilized in other ways.  Look at
it as a limited resource.  Old growth wood is extremely rare today,
and salvaged wood is the only viable source for it.  It's being made
into laminate flooring, and many other things as well.

> The disadvantage of these materials is that they have a high
> embodied energy.
> This comes from the amount of BTU's inherent in the wood fibers
> themselves
> combined with the embodied energy of the resins used and the energy
> used to
> produce the resins and the energy used to manufacture the actual

One thing I've always wondered about.  Fiberglass spray is a
simple way to manufacture lots of various shapes.  Shotcrete is
the same basic process applied to concrete construction.  Why
not do somehting similar with wood fibers and a binder?

> Fiberglass and carbon fiber composites are remarkably similar to
> composite
> wood
> products.  A man-made fiber is simply substituted for the natural

They're also remarkably similar to natural wood.  Cellulose fibers
in an organic binder...fiber orientation even comes into play.  We
call it "grain."

:-)

> Other
> natural fibers, such as agricultural 'waste' (i.e. wheat straw),
> bamboo, and
> grasses can also be used for some products.  In my mind, bamboo, is
> by far,
> the
> most promising alternative candidate.

It depends on its intended use -- straw is remarkably promising too.

> embodied energy.  I would be interested to know.  One thing to
> consider with
> aluminum and any structural element in a building is that aluminum
> is one of
> the best conductors of heat that there is.  It is many times more

Yes, that's one reason I chose it.  My theory with regard to the
"chilling machine" effect, is that it is driven by the delta T between
the skin and the interior air.

I want the skin hot enough to "fry an egg."

> conductive
> than steel, even.  If aluminum is going to be used anywhere in a
> building, it
> should be, to the greatest extent possible, conductively decoupled
> from the
> insulated interior spaces.

We need to rethink the insulated interior spaces -- is it the best
implementation?

     -- Chuck Knight
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:25:56 -0400
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From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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Dear Chuck,

At 02:34 PM 6/7/01 , you wrote:

>> some movement in this direction in the industry.  Even salvaged wood
>> can be
>> used to make engineered lumber.  There is a company in California
>
>Salvaged wood could be better utilized in other ways.  Look at
>it as a limited resource.  Old growth wood is extremely rare today,
>and salvaged wood is the only viable source for it.  It's being made
>into laminate flooring, and many other things as well.

In this particular instance, I don't believe the company shreds the old-growth
valuable salvage stuff, just the cut-off waste from new construction, or low
commodity wood waste from demolition.

(...)
>One thing I've always wondered about.  Fiberglass spray is a
>simple way to manufacture lots of various shapes.  Shotcrete is
>the same basic process applied to concrete construction.  Why
>not do somehting similar with wood fibers and a binder?

Papercrete and paper adobe might be similar to what you are talking about
here.  See:
http://www.zianet.com/papercrete/
http://oikos.com/library/papercrete/
http://www.hartworks.com/earthbaghouse.htm
or type 'papercrete' into Google.com.

>> embodied energy.  I would be interested to know.  One thing to
>> consider with
>> aluminum and any structural element in a building is that aluminum
>> is one of
>> the best conductors of heat that there is.  It is many times more
>
>Yes, that's one reason I chose it.  My theory with regard to the
>"chilling machine" effect, is that it is driven by the delta T between
>the skin and the interior air.
>
>I want the skin hot enough to "fry an egg."

If it's solar heating you're after, consider that copper dipped into an acidic
solution will oxidize the surface molecules in such a way at to produce a
color
that is almost the blackest substance that man has been able to produce.
Ultra-black coatings are available at considerable cost, but this method is
cheaper.  I read about this method in a book called _Gaviotas_ (
http://www.chelseagreen.com/Gaviotas/ ).  They were reusing fluorescent
tubes.
They would clean them out, dip copper tube in acid to make it black, and
assemble the two components into modular solar hot water heaters.

>
>> conductive
>> than steel, even.  If aluminum is going to be used anywhere in a
>> building, it
>> should be, to the greatest extent possible, conductively decoupled
>> from the
>> insulated interior spaces.
>
>We need to rethink the insulated interior spaces -- is it the best
>implementation?

I would say that it depends on the climate that the structure is built in.  Is
your primary concern keeping the interior spaces cool or warm?

>     -- Chuck Knight

Chuck, I would love some elaboration here.  Are you talking about the same
cooling process that Fuller discovered with his domes?

Brent
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:19:25 -0500
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Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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> >> some movement in this direction in the industry.  Even salvaged
> >> wood
> >
> >Salvaged wood could be better utilized in other ways.  Look at
>
> In this particular instance, I don't believe the company shreds the
> old-growth
> valuable salvage stuff, just the cut-off waste from new
> construction, or low
> commodity wood waste from demolition.

Thank heaven -- short cuts from 2x4 or 2x6 dimensional lumber
are simply "waste" for most purposes.

I think I overreacted a bit -- I had images of an 18x24" chestnut
beam being shredded.  The woodworker in me had an appropriate
reaction.  :-)

> >One thing I've always wondered about.  Fiberglass spray is a
> >simple way to manufacture lots of various shapes.  Shotcrete is
> >the same basic process applied to concrete construction.  Why
> >not do somehting similar with wood fibers and a binder?
>
> Papercrete and paper adobe might be similar to what you are talking
> about
> here.  See:
> http://www.zianet.com/papercrete/
> http://oikos.com/library/papercrete/
> http://www.hartworks.com/earthbaghouse.htm
> or type 'papercrete' into Google.com.

Similar, but I was thinking of something requiring less processing.
Think more along the lines of MDF, but sprayable.  Wood chips
almost certainly involve less embodied energy (I'll borrow your term)
than processed paper, though the thought of building a house from
recycled junk mail has a certain appeal.  :-)

> >> aluminum
> >> is one of
> >> the best conductors of heat that there is.
> >
> >Yes, that's one reason I chose it.  My theory with regard to the
> >"chilling machine" effect, is that it is driven by the delta T
> >
> >I want the skin hot enough to "fry an egg."
>
> If it's solar heating you're after, consider that copper dipped into

No, it's solar cooling.  I live in Texas, Dallas to be specific, and
the winters here are very mild.  It usually freezes, but only for
the night...anything on the ground in the morning is gone by
the evening.  Summers, however, are commonly 100-110F, all
day for at least a moth....upper 90s for an additional 2-3 months.

Needless to say, cooling is my main interest.  This may seem
contradictory, since I said that I want the skin as hot as it can
get.

I discussed a theory of mine, about how the "chilling machine"
effect works, on Pat's list -- domesteading.  Basically, that the
hot skin causes local heating of the air within the dome -- it
rises, following the curve of the dome.  A "vacuum" is formed
at the center of the dome, which draws air in from above -- the
floor reorients the airflow such that it proceeds radially towards
the walls.  The "openings" at the base, allow the air to exit at
the base of the dome.

But, for this effect to work, the difference in temperature between
the interior air and the skin would need to be at a maximum.

My theory makes sense, but I've not yet built a dome with these
characteristics, to test it.  If it turns out that I'm right,

This is why I said that perhaps traditionally "insulated" spaces
may not be the best approach.

> an acidic
> solution will oxidize the surface molecules in such a way at to
> produce a
> color
>  is almost the blackest substance that man has been able to produce.

Any particular acidic solution?  This would be interesting to
use for my proof of concept model.

> >We need to rethink the insulated interior spaces -- is it the best
> >implementation?
>
> I would say that it depends on the climate that the structure is
> built in.  Is
> your primary concern keeping the interior spaces cool or warm?

As most of the global population lives in temperate to hot
climates, cooling is an important consideration.

> Chuck, I would love some elaboration here.  Are you talking about
> the same
> cooling process that Fuller discovered with his domes?

Yep -- the self-cooling nature of domes...at least ones which are
built to harness this effect.

Unfortunatley, to my knowledge, only 1 or 2 domes were ever
produced, which capitalized on this effect.  The dome in Africa
was said to be "too cool."

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Jun 2001 20:12:53 -0400
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From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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Brent wrote:
<< I look forward to hearing from the rest of you as to what you
feel are the best material choices.>>
  =

         I have found a combination of materials to be the best.
         For a simple 24' diameter dome, it takes less than 200 2"x4"x8'
lumber which can be harvested from tree farms.  Anything less than a 2"x6=
"
can pretty well be deemed as renewable as a tree farm has no problem
turning them out.  Not only does a tree farm produce renewable fiber, but=

it converts great quantities of oxygen from carbon dioxide during
production.  I use OSB for the sheathing, which is simply scrub trees whi=
ch
are chipped and then glued into sheets.  I use high strength steel bolts
and nuts to connect the dome panels together.  A plastic film triple
layered bubbled and aluminum coated high efficient reflective insulation =
is
used for insulation.   A highly reflective aluminum coated flexible
bituminum roofing is used.  A minimum of concrete is used by supporting t=
he
structure on simple piers at each corner of the dome.
     Using this combination approach, whereas the best materials are used=

for the most suitable application, a simple weathertight dome can be easi=
ly
built including windows and doors for less than $4000 in materials.   =

http://hometown.aol.com/dometruss
        Using a 12% interest on a charge card, the financing cost for the=

materials would be around $40/month on an unsecured account.   This is
probably about what about 50% of Americans spend on cable.   Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:30:08 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Dome Greenhouse
Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>

Mike,

Scroll down to "Greenhouses":
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-G.htm

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

"Mike Paulton" <mikepaul@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3B1FF378.4894E9BC@sk.sympatico.ca...
> I am new to domes and would like to build a dome greenhouse. I know
> there are sites that sell kits but I would like to build it all myself.
> Are there any sites that tell you how? Or maybe a book?     Thanks.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:35:14 -0700
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Brent,

Excellent analysis re energy content, but what about combustibility
("burning"), consumability (eaten by bugs)?

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Hi-Tek Domes


> Dear All,
>
> ++++++++++++++++++
> I have found this thread to be most interesting.  I feel compelled to
throw in
> my two cents.  Be warned, this message is a little on the long side.  It
deals
> in general with Life Cycle Assessment (LCA) issues with regards to various
> building materials.
> ++++++++++++++++++
(snip)
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:14:07 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
In-Reply-To:  <20010607.191929.1368.1.c.knight@juno.com>
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>
Basically, that the
> hot skin causes local heating of the air within the dome -- it
> rises, following the curve of the dome.  A "vacuum" is formed
> at the center of the dome, which draws air in from above -- the
> floor reorients the airflow such that it proceeds radially towards
> the walls.  The "openings" at the base, allow the air to exit at
> the base of the dome.

Chuck- I though that the internal low pressure was a result of the
rising of air outside, along the bottom of the dome. And with many
openings at its base, the interior air is sucked out of these
openings. Then, a single opening at the top of the dome lets
replacement air enter the dome, where it cools because of the
differencial in pressure.

Dick
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:37:30 -0400
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From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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At 08:19 PM 6/7/01 , you wrote:

>
>Similar, but I was thinking of something requiring less processing.
>Think more along the lines of MDF, but sprayable.

I have made a very small batch of papercrete in a kitchen blender.  The
processing is minimal and the consistency is such that it could be sprayed.  I
recall reading about someone that was experimenting with the material in a
spray application.  Of course, you will never achieve the density of MDF
with a
spray application.  Before a sheet MDF goes into a heated press, it is a loose
matte of wood fiber mixed with resin that is between 8" -15" tall,
depending on
the thickness of final sheet.  I don't recall what kind of pressures are
involved in compressing MDF, but it is quite high.

>Wood chips
>almost certainly involve less embodied energy (I'll borrow your term)
>than processed paper, though the thought of building a house from
>recycled junk mail has a certain appeal.  :-)

The term 'embodied energy' is very well accepted withing the LCA/Sustainable
Design community of practicioners.  You may borrow it, but it is not mine :-)

>> an acidic
>> solution will oxidize the surface molecules in such a way as to
>> produce a
>> color
>>  is almost the blackest substance that man has been able to produce.
>
>Any particular acidic solution?  This would be interesting to
>use for my proof of concept model.

I would have to reread parts of the book, _Gaviotas_, to find it.  I remember
that it was something that was very readily available, muriatic or
hydrochloric
acid...?

>Unfortunatley, to my knowledge, only 1 or 2 domes were ever
>produced, which capitalized on this effect.  The dome in Africa
>was said to be "too cool."
>
>     -- Chuck Knight
>

Were these 2 domes designed by Bucky?

Brent
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> > Basically, that the
> > hot skin causes local heating of the air within the dome -- it
> > rises, following the curve of the dome.  A "vacuum" is formed
> > at the center of the dome, which draws air in from above -- the
>
> Chuck- I though that the internal low pressure was a result of the
> rising of air outside, along the bottom of the dome.

It may.  As far as I know, noone has experimented with the
chilling effect, except Bucky himself...certainly nothing that
has been published.  I'm just theorizing about what makes it
happen -- if I'm right, the skin *has* to be super hot in order
for the effect to hapen.

"Good" insulation would kill it completely.

The reason I think this is necessary, is that Bucky wrote about
how the skins of the test domes and grain bins were hot enough
to "fry an egg," and yet the interior space was pleasantly cool.

     -- Chuck Knight
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From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
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Chuck and Dick,

So if I understand you properly, the chilling effect that you are talking
about
is very much as though you are trying to transform the interior of the dome
into a huge expansion valve that one might find in a conventional air
conditioning system.  If this is correct, wouldn't it heighten the cooling
effect by adding moisture to the incoming supply of expanding air?  The
moisture would not only add density to the expanding air mass, but it would
have secondary cooling effects on the skin of the occupants.  I grew up in
Phoenix where we had "swamp" coolers.  Of course evaporative coolers are best
suited to dry climates, but who knows how adding moisture to the air supply of
a dome chilling machine would work in moist climates, like Atlanta, GA,
where I
live now.  They worked well for part of the year.

Also, wouldn't interior walls, second floors, furiture, and opening and
closing
of exterior doors screw up the effect?

Brent


At 01:34 PM 6/8/01 , you wrote:
>> > Basically, that the
>> > hot skin causes local heating of the air within the dome -- it
>> > rises, following the curve of the dome.  A "vacuum" is formed
>> > at the center of the dome, which draws air in from above -- the
>>
>> Chuck- I though that the internal low pressure was a result of the
>> rising of air outside, along the bottom of the dome.
>
>It may.  As far as I know, noone has experimented with the
>chilling effect, except Bucky himself...certainly nothing that
>has been published.  I'm just theorizing about what makes it
>happen -- if I'm right, the skin *has* to be super hot in order
>for the effect to hapen.
>
>"Good" insulation would kill it completely.
>
>The reason I think this is necessary, is that Bucky wrote about
>how the skins of the test domes and grain bins were hot enough
>to "fry an egg," and yet the interior space was pleasantly cool.
>
>     -- Chuck Knight
>
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> So if I understand you properly, the chilling effect that you are
> talking about
> is very much as though you are trying to transform the interior of
> the dome
> into a huge expansion valve that one might find in a conventional

Correct.  If I understand the function of the expansion valve
correctly, the dome acts as the expansion valve, and the construction
of the dome itself (specifics are unknown, because Bucky didn't
document this particular effect very well) sets up the airflow patterns
that allow it to function.

Think about it this way.  Have you ever walked into a grain bin on
a sunny summer day?  It's like walking into an oven!

Same thing holds true for most homes -- shut off the A/C on a
summer day, and the interior temperature will increase beyond
the outdoor temperature -- my family has a vacation house, and
it'll usually hold at between 20-30F above the outdoor temperature,
without active cooling.

These domes, according to all accounts, stay cool on their own
with no electricity requirements.

> conditioning system.  If this is correct, wouldn't it heighten the
> cooling
> effect by adding moisture to the incoming supply of expanding air?

The effect, as it stands now, is completely passive.  The only
"control" required would be operable controls on the vents, which
would control the total airflow.  This can be automated, even
without electricity, by using wax filled cylinder lifts designed for
greenhouses.

The introduction of water (hardly difficult) is a very good idea.
Swamp coolers usually work very well, even in the Dallas climate
which is moist, though not so humid as Houston or Atlanta.

I'm not sure if it would be necessary, though.

Experimentation would be needed to find out several things:
Is the effect real?
How does it work?
What variables affect the chilling effect, and in what way?
What variables should be maximized (or minimized) to
maximize the chilling effect?
Does the total volume of the dome affect anything, i.e.
will it work on a commercial scale *and* and on a home
scale?

> Also, wouldn't interior walls, second floors, furiture, and opening
> and closing of exterior doors screw up the effect?

Yes and no.  If you chop up the dome the way that most tract
homes are set up, then yes.  With the extremely open floor plan
of most dome homes, I don't know if it would be a big deal.

Furniture is usually pretty small in the grand scheme of things.
Unless you're talking about solid interior bookshelf walls, or
some such thing, then I don't see furniture being a big deal.

Opening and closing of doors would probably cause a significant
effect, but only for a few moments.  Not many of us would simply
open the door, and leave it open for no reason -- windows, yes,
but not doors.

If this is a concern, I'm sure an "airlock" double door would be
a simple solution.

Bucky's dome in Africa (yes, Bucky and his design firm designed
and built the chilling-machine domes) was used for an exposition
hall, so presumably a good number of exhibits were "interfering"
with the airflow...not to mention people!  For doors, he just had large
triangular arches, apparently (from the pictures) permanently open,
along the bottom of the dome.

While I'm sure this all affected total efficiency, the reports were that
the dome was considered to be "too cool."  So, it's probably not a
big problem.

(One caveat -- I'm a hopeless optimist, not an engineer, though I
do have a bit of a background in that field)

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:46:51 -0500
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From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Thanks guys. You have given me fresh ideas.
I have tried to achieve Bernoulli Cooling with no success.

I have been considering using a large wok with holes drilled in it in
appropriate places to see if I can replicate the cooling effect described by
Fuller in Critical Path.  Other have told me they think it is a matter of
scale (i.e. that I will have to build a large dome for the cooling to
happen.

        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Brent A. Verrill [SMTP:gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU]
        Sent:   Friday, June 08, 2001 3:33 PM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: Hi-Tek Domes

        Chuck and Dick,

        So if I understand you properly, the chilling effect that you are
talking
        about
        is very much as though you are trying to transform the interior of
the dome
        into a huge expansion valve that one might find in a conventional
air
        conditioning system.  If this is correct, wouldn't it heighten the
cooling
        effect by adding moisture to the incoming supply of expanding air?
The
        moisture would not only add density to the expanding air mass, but
it would
        have secondary cooling effects on the skin of the occupants.  I grew
up in
        Phoenix where we had "swamp" coolers.  Of course evaporative coolers
are best
        suited to dry climates, but who knows how adding moisture to the air
supply of
        a dome chilling machine would work in moist climates, like Atlanta,
GA,
        where I
        live now.  They worked well for part of the year.

        Also, wouldn't interior walls, second floors, furiture, and opening
and
        closing
        of exterior doors screw up the effect?

        Brent


        At 01:34 PM 6/8/01 , you wrote:
        >> > Basically, that the
        >> > hot skin causes local heating of the air within the dome -- it
        >> > rises, following the curve of the dome.  A "vacuum" is formed
        >> > at the center of the dome, which draws air in from above -- the
        >>
        >> Chuck- I though that the internal low pressure was a result of
the
        >> rising of air outside, along the bottom of the dome.
        >
        >It may.  As far as I know, noone has experimented with the
        >chilling effect, except Bucky himself...certainly nothing that
        >has been published.  I'm just theorizing about what makes it
        >happen -- if I'm right, the skin *has* to be super hot in order
        >for the effect to hapen.
        >
        >"Good" insulation would kill it completely.
        >
        >The reason I think this is necessary, is that Bucky wrote about
        >how the skins of the test domes and grain bins were hot enough
        >to "fry an egg," and yet the interior space was pleasantly cool.
        >
        >     -- Chuck Knight
        >
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:35:11 -0500
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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> Fuller in Critical Path.  Other have told me they think it is a
> matter of
> scale (i.e. that I will have to build a large dome for the cooling
> to happen.

Could you define "large?"

I was thinking about building a 5 or 10' dome model to test
the effect.  Tiny dome, as houses go, but would it be big
enough to notice any cooling effect?

It'd be much bigger than your wok model...I could make it
from aluminum newspaper printing plates, easily enough.
$0.25 a piece, if memory serves, at the local printer.

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:51:41 -0400
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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>        So if I understand you properly, the chilling effect that you
> are talking about is very much as though you are trying to transform
> the interior of the dome into a huge expansion valve that one might
> find in a conventional air conditioning system.

In a conventional air conditioning system the expansion valve
separates a high pressure LIQUID from a low pressure cooling chamber.
If I understand this dome chilling scheme it supposes the interior
space is at a lower pressure in which case there will indeed be a
cooling of the air as it expands while flowing down thru the top of
the dome. But I'd expect that cooling to be minuscule compared to what
the expansion valve in a freon system does. I think at least 99% of
the cooling done at a conventional expansion valve is due to the
EVAPORATION of the refrigerant. Plus, the refrigerant typically has a
much higher heat capacity than air does, so if the air drops in
temperature a few degrees that will not cool much -- a very few BTU's
will warm the air up again, compared to many BTU's it takes to warm up
a liquid the same few degrees, and MANY MANY BTU's it takes to
evaporate the liquid.

I'm not clear on how much of a pressure difference is expected, but I
imagine it is much less than the several Pounds/Square Inch  across a
conventional expansion valve. If the pressure inside the dome were
even 1 PSI lower than outside, the air would not flow out the vents
around the bottom. I guess a Bernoulli effect would pull air out the
bottom if there were a fast enough airflow up along the outside. But
this airflow starts so close to the ground, the outside air is
initially still, so I think it will not move fast.

It does not seem likely to me that air will flow along the outside of the
dome -- if
the air is heated by the dome surface, it will flow straight up away
from the dome. If it does flow along the surface toward the peak --
well, that's where the inlet is, so if air is sucked in, it will be
the heated air.

Is there maybe a double wall involved? Like, if the outer
dome surface were clear glazing, and there were an inner black
dome, the air space between them would heat up like a chimney,
promoting faster flow. But, chimneys benefit from HEIGHT, and
verticality. And, the solar collector effect of this clear outer wall
would increase the temperature of the inner wall, requiring insulation
between the hot black inner wall and the cool living space inside.

>  If this is correct,
> wouldn't it heighten the cooling effect by adding moisture to the
> incoming supply of expanding air?

If the air is dry enough so that moisture can be added to it, that
will certainly contribute to cooling (at the expense of higher
humidity.) But as the air cools and expands coming down into the
interior space, it will LOSE ability to hold moisture. So the cooling would
not be as effective as a swamp cooler, which operates without a
pressure difference.

I'd think Bernoulli could be used for passive air movement most
effectively by having a stand-alone chimney, tall and vertical, with a
solar heated core surrounded by a clear cylinder. As long as it is
outside the living space you don't care how hot the dark core gets.
Air would be sucked in at the bottom -- but unless the chimney is
several hundred feet high, I don't think the updraft would create much of a
pressure difference, not enough for expansion cooling to be
significant.

> The moisture would not only add density to the expanding air mass

A visionary power plant was proposed in Popular Science (December 1981,
p.68) that operated on a similar principle. In a dry climate water
would be pumped to the top of a huge chimney (8000' tall, 900'
diameter.) As the water sprayed inside the chimney evaporates, the air
cools and becomes more dense, falling down the chimney. The tremendous
downdraft would generate 2500 megawatts as it flowed out thru turbines
at the bottom. (But would this device spawn tornadoes, spinning up
huge vortexes at the top?)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:27:44 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Chilling Machine
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Here's some refs re Bucky's "Chilling Machine":

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Cheg-Cloc.htm

(Scroll down to "Chilling")

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#00ffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D4>Here's some refs re Bucky's "Chilling=20
Machine":</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D4></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Cheg-Cloc.htm"><STRONG><FON=
T=20
size=3D4>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Cheg-Cloc.htm</FONT></STRO=
NG></A></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D4></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D4>(Scroll down to =
"Chilling")</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG><FONT size=3D4>Joe S Moore<BR></FONT></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D4>joemoore@qwest.net</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D4>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>=
<FONT=20
size=3D4>Buckminster Fuller Virtual=20
Institute<BR></FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:15:48 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
In-Reply-To:  <20010608.123456.304.0.c.knight@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Joe's reference says:
"In 1940 R Buckminster Fuller discovered a way to cool buildings
using only the natural thermodynamic laws of nature.

The warm air thermal rising above a dome would pull warm air out from
large openings around the bottom of a dome, thereby pulling
Bernoulli-effect cooled air in through a relatively small opening at
the top of the dome. "

So, what I suppose is that insulation would help, not hurt, the
cooling effect. The engine is the high exterior temp of the dome. The
inside circulation is not a factor, except that there is a general
movement of air from top to bottom. The critical variables are the
exterior surface temperature, the ratio of the area of exhaust vents
near the base to the intake vent near the top( the higher the ratio
the better, to a optimal value), and the pressure differential which
is related to the dome's dimensions.

I remember a picture of a dome somewhere suspended a foot of the
ground. That is the maximum "exhaust vent" I can imagine.

Dick




--- Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM> wrote:
> > > Basically, that the
> > > hot skin causes local heating of the air within the dome -- it
> > > rises, following the curve of the dome.  A "vacuum" is formed
> > > at the center of the dome, which draws air in from above -- the
> >
> > Chuck- I though that the internal low pressure was a result of
> the
> > rising of air outside, along the bottom of the dome.
>
> It may.  As far as I know, noone has experimented with the
> chilling effect, except Bucky himself...certainly nothing that
> has been published.  I'm just theorizing about what makes it
> happen -- if I'm right, the skin *has* to be super hot in order
> for the effect to hapen.
>
> "Good" insulation would kill it completely.
>
> The reason I think this is necessary, is that Bucky wrote about
> how the skins of the test domes and grain bins were hot enough
> to "fry an egg," and yet the interior space was pleasantly cool.
>
>      -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:20:28 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      World Game Sold
Comments: cc: "Urner, Kirby" <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>,
          "Siegmund, Mark" <Tetworld@highstream.net>,
          "Rowland, J. Michael" <jmr@marathoncomputer.com>,
          "Hunter, Spencer W" <shunter@U.Arizona.EDU>,
          "Pang, Alex Soojung-Kim" <apang@stanford.edu>,
          "Perk, Bill" <billperk@midwest.net>,
          "Meisen, Peter" <peter@geni.org>,
          "Institute, Buckminster Fuller" <info@bfi.org>
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The World Game Institute has been sold to osEarth, Inc:
http://www.osearth.com/

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The World Game Institute has been sold to osEarth,=20
Inc:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.osearth.com/">http://www.osearth.com/</A></FONT></DIV>=

<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Joe S Moore<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net">joemoore@qwest.net</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:46:42 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Oregon Dome, Inc.  For Sale
Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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Oregon Domes maintains a list of domes for sale:

 http://www.domes.com/sale.html

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Oregon Domes maintains a list of domes for =
sale:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.domes.com/sale.html">http://www.domes.com/sale.html</A=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Joe S Moore<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net">joemoore@qwest.net</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 10 Jun 2001 04:26:46 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      I apolyzise
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It's "FUCKING" off spring of the Bush family.

...............................................

Step out of a pool of water when the temperature of the air is=20
105 degrees Fahrenheit and the humidity is like really close to zero =
.... cooooooooooooooooooooool baby  .... aaaaaahhhhh ... =20

the cooling effect is most notable in dry regions of the f..."in" planet =
.... Bucky's most notable example given by himself in the middle east =
dessert ... Middle east "as in like Afganistan
........
Duh.... duh ...... dudessssssssssssss , dudesss's too ..

The following is exept from all stuff......

P.C. disclaimer
.... Killed any Arab children today???????????????

A fuller Explanation .......

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html


I hate angelfire's commercials... don't you?????????




=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's&nbsp;"FUCKING"&nbsp;off spring of =
the Bush=20
family.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...............................................</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Step out of&nbsp;a pool of water when =
the=20
temperature of the air is </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>105 degrees Fahrenheit and the humidity =
is=20
like&nbsp;really close to zero .... </FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>cooooooooooooooooooooool baby&nbsp;&nbsp;.... aaaaaahhhhh =
...&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the cooling effect is most notable in =
dry regions=20
of the f..."in" planet .... Bucky's most notable example given by =
himself in the=20
middle east dessert ... Middle east "as in like Afganistan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>........</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Duh.... duh ...... dudessssssssssssss , =
dudesss's=20
too ..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The following is exept from all=20
stuff......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>P.C. disclaimer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>.... Killed any Arab children=20
today???????????????</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A fuller Explanation =
.......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html">http://www.angelf=
ire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hate angelfire's commercials... don't =

you?????????</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 10 Jun 2001 06:51:16 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Nature 5/31/01

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            10-JUN-2001  6:51
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 did I note the article on the demise of the Kyoto Protocol
 in The Sciences?...  I haven't read it, yet, but I suppose that
 the take is that the "free market" is a better Friend of the Earth
 (pun intended; I've always wonered about both o'your groups [*] .-)
    these "scientific analyses" of such pretended neutrality (vis,
 especially from a British org.), wherein "political science" is
 at the forefront, if unmentioned, ascribe always
 to the mere consensus.  let me give another example.
    the World Game Inst. just relaunched itself as a for-profit entity
 (with the WGI becoming a nonprofit foundation) to get
 into the corporate training and "edutainment" fields,
 more whole-heartedly than they have been.
    http://www.osearth.com/
 note the premiere, reductionist notion, seguing
 from Bucky Fuller's notable "operating manual" book and metaphor
 of the spaceship, as also from his idolization of Korzybki (sp.?)
 and his "general semantics" ... wait, Bertanffly and his "general systems,"
 getting back on track.  it's very-well meant.
    at the top of their front page is a pair of "worldometers"
 of "current population" and "CO2 emmissions since jan.1 in metric tons,"
 as a sort of sychronized pair of atomic clocks on an atomic bomb.
    the fact that both linear estimations are quite meaningless, and that
 the presumed model for CO2 of both its increase and effects is linear,
 is swallowed in the ticking.  (that is,
 most annual CO2 "production" is of natural origin,
 most of the "anthro" part is agricultural, and
 it'd seem that the rate at which "fossil fuels [can] power the planet,"
 would depend on the rate at which our friends (sentient beings?) die;
 eh?

 thus quoth:
  become a bigger source of our energy. Fossil fuels cannot power the
 planet
  for ever, and the US companies should be trying to adapt. Without a
 strong

 --Les Ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:23:57 -0400
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From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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Hi Tony,

At 06:46 PM 6/8/01 , you wrote:
>Thanks guys. You have given me fresh ideas.
>I have tried to achieve Bernoulli Cooling with no success.
>
>I have been considering using a large wok with holes drilled in it in
>appropriate places to see if I can replicate the cooling effect described by
>Fuller in Critical Path.  Other have told me they think it is a matter of
>scale (i.e. that I will have to build a large dome for the cooling to
>happen.
>
This might work, but let me relay an experience I had in my former career in
audio engineering.  I attended a conference where an acoustician had modeled a
concert hall at a much reduced scale to determine the effect of minor design
changes.  The problem with this is that the air molecules are too large
compared to the size of the model, so accurate data was impossible to get.
The
solution turned out to be to replace the air with helium.  The model was
scaled
to the appropriate size for the helium molecule rather than the normal air
mixture.  I'm pretty sure the frequency spectrum was also adjusted to
accomodate the different acoustic medium.  The result was the accurate
modeling
of acoustic spaces at minimal cost.

My point here is that the wok idea as a simulation for a full scale chilling
dome might work at a gross scale, but it might work better if you change the
atmospheric medium to a more appropriate scale with your model.  I realize
this
is not a simple endeavor, to create a helium tight simulation chamber, but it
might be cheaper in the long run than building a full size dome.

Just a thought...

Brent
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:57:39 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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Hi Brent,
Thanks for the comment. Interesting thought.
I think it would more likely be within my means and current abilities to
search for the threshold dome size and materials conditions where Bernoulli
cooling takes place in air.
I have tried to set up conditions for B. Cooling using the fabric covered
domes I'm currently working with, but I think there is to much heat influx
into the dome. I probably need (at minimum) an opaque aluminized outer
surface. But even this may not achieve the heating required to start
circulation and interior expansion.

-Tony.

Http://environmentalvalving.cjb.net <Http://environmentalvalving.cjb.net>



        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Brent A. Verrill [SMTP:gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU]
        Sent:   Monday, June 11, 2001 9:24 AM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: Hi-Tek Domes

        Hi Tony,

        At 06:46 PM 6/8/01 , you wrote:
        >Thanks guys. You have given me fresh ideas.
        >I have tried to achieve Bernoulli Cooling with no success.
        >
        >I have been considering using a large wok with holes drilled in it
in
        >appropriate places to see if I can replicate the cooling effect
described by
        >Fuller in Critical Path.  Other have told me they think it is a
matter of
        >scale (i.e. that I will have to build a large dome for the cooling
to
        >happen.
        >
        This might work, but let me relay an experience I had in my former
career in
        audio engineering.  I attended a conference where an acoustician had
modeled a
        concert hall at a much reduced scale to determine the effect of
minor design
        changes.  The problem with this is that the air molecules are too
large
        compared to the size of the model, so accurate data was impossible
to get.
        The
        solution turned out to be to replace the air with helium.  The model
was
        scaled
        to the appropriate size for the helium molecule rather than the
normal air
        mixture.  I'm pretty sure the frequency spectrum was also adjusted
to
        accomodate the different acoustic medium.  The result was the
accurate
        modeling
        of acoustic spaces at minimal cost.

        My point here is that the wok idea as a simulation for a full scale
chilling
        dome might work at a gross scale, but it might work better if you
change the
        atmospheric medium to a more appropriate scale with your model.  I
realize
        this
        is not a simple endeavor, to create a helium tight simulation
chamber, but it
        might be cheaper in the long run than building a full size dome.

        Just a thought...

        Brent
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:04:48 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Fuller Projection
Comments: cc: "Urner, Kirby" <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
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Maple language computer code for generating the Fuller Projection:
http://people.clarkson.edu/~chengweb/faculty/taylor/maps/dymax1.html

Created by Ross Taylor & Richard Baur=20
Department of Chemical Engineering
Clarkson University, Potsdam, New York

and John Oprea
Department of Mathematics
Cleveland State University
Cleveland, Ohio
Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV align=3Dleft><STRONG><FONT size=3D4>Maple language computer code =
for generating=20
the Fuller Projection:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><A=20
href=3D"http://people.clarkson.edu/~chengweb/faculty/taylor/maps/dymax1.h=
tml"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D4>http://people.clarkson.edu/~chengweb/faculty/taylor/maps/dymax1.=
html</FONT></STRONG></A></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><STRONG><FONT size=3D4><FONT=20
color=3D#000000></FONT></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><STRONG><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#000000>Created =
by </FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>Ross Taylor &amp; Richard Baur =
</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4><STRONG>Department of =
Chemical=20
Engineering<BR>Clarkson University, Potsdam, New =
York</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><STRONG><FONT size=3D4></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><STRONG><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#000000>and =
</FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>John Oprea</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4><STRONG>Department of=20
Mathematics<BR>Cleveland State University<BR>Cleveland,=20
Ohio</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<P align=3Dleft><STRONG><FONT size=3D4>Joe S Moore<BR></FONT></STRONG><A =

href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D4>joemoore@qwest.net</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D4>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>=
<FONT=20
size=3D4>Buckminster Fuller Virtual=20
Institute<BR></P></FONT></STRONG></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:36:12 -0700
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From:         The Millers <triorbtl@SOVER.NET>
Subject:      Hi-Tek Domes
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>changes.  The problem with this is that the air molecules are too large
>compared to the size of the model, so accurate data was impossible to get.
>The
>solution turned out to be to replace the air with helium.  The model was
>scaled
>to the appropriate size for the helium molecule rather than the normal air
>mixture.  I'm pretty sure the frequency spectrum was also adjusted to
>accomodate the different acoustic medium.  The result was the accurate
>modeling
>of acoustic spaces at minimal cost.

        Given the same temperature and pressure, all gas molecules are the
same size.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:16:40 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Fog gun
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Andy,

See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosHouseShowerScientific.htm

and http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Flb-Fra.htm
(scroll down to "Fog")

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:59 AM
Subject: re: Fog gun


> From: John Smith <vze2khtz@verizon.net>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:40:15 -0700
>
>     Reading Bucky's "Everything I know" lectures I came upon a
> reference to 'Fog Guns'. I was very interected in the water
> effiecency, so I seareched. There is basically kaput on the web.
> Does anyone know where I can find plans/vendors/patent
> info/general stuff on the Fog Gun?
>
>                                                         -Andy N.
>                                          No Need For Signatures!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:07:53 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Dome books
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Amazon UK sells a book about domes; see
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0906212928/qid=992325795/sr=1-1/026
-4949089-3504447

It's called 'Geodesic Domes' by Borin Van Loom 4.95 pounds
Paperback (15 November, 1994)
Tarquin Publications; ISBN: 0906212928

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:35 PM
Subject: re: Dome books


> From: Steve Cottrell <cottycam@mac.com>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:59:15 +0100
>
> >Hello Cotty, saw your email saying you're in Oxfordshire. I'm struggling
to
> >track down books on dome construction. What luck have you had in the UK?
Any
> >hints on where I can get some.
> >
>
> Hi Gordon,
>
> Sorry I took such a long time to reply - I work in tv news and last week
> was a bit hectic ;-)
>
> I hope you don't mind, but I'm posting this to the DomeHome list as well
> in case anyone finds my meagre collection of relevant books in any way
> useful.
>
> Not in any particular order:
>
> 'Shelter' (extra large softback, Random House ISBN 679-76948-X)
>  -an eclectic mix crammed full with articles, drawings, photos of all
> manner of domes, yurts, huts, built in materials ranging from wood,
> brick, straw, cow-pats etc (you get the idea). A valuable resource, one
> of those books that you pick up for a moment and before you know it an
> hour has passed. Essential.
>
> 'Bucky Works' by J. Baldwin (hardback, Wiley ISBN 0-471-12953-4)
> -potted history of the Master's work including the early years. Plenty of
> drawings, pics, graphs and charts. If you wanted one book on him without
> spending the Earth, this is fine. More historical than practical. Good
> resource.
>
> 'The Self-Build Book' by John Broome and Brian Richardson (softback,
> Green Earth Books ISBN 1-900322-00-5)
> -chock full of case histories relating to a handful of self-build
> projects scattered throughout the UK, including the heralded Segal
> method. Loads of detail but this isn't a manual on how to self-build,
> rather how it's been done. Crucial reading.
>
> 'How to Get Planning Permission' by Roy Speere and Michael Dade
> (softback, Dent Home Builder ISBN 0-460-86195-6)
> -Brilliant compact manual encapsulating the title. Goes through all
> protocols and procedures in an easy-to-read style, with full
> illustrations and drawings, sample letters, charts, diagrams, everything.
> If you're self-building in the UK, and can't afford thousand-quid-an-hour
> planning consultants, memorising this book is the next best thing.
>
> 'How to Find and Buy a Building Plot' by Roy Speere and Michael Dade
> (softback, Dent Home Builders ISBN 0-460-86196-4)
> -again, superb tome detailing exactly what to look for, how to go about
> acquiring it, and increasing chances of success in building on it. Can't
> praise these books enough.
>
> 'Guide to Construction Management' by Roger Boothe (Oregon Dome
> publication)
> -want to build a dome, but don't want to fork out yet for the full plans?
> Still tinkering with the idea, but like to see something slightly more
> detailed, with loads of pics and diagrams? This is the answer! A
> spiral-bound large paperback takes you through the process of marking
> out, laying the foundations, and erecting a panel dome. Obviously lots of
> reference to Oregon Domes' fine collection of designs, but really anyone
> thinking of a dome could make use of this book. Even if you're a
> hub-n-strutter (second only to the Cha-Cha...) you will find this great.
> Of all the books piled by the bed, this one gets thumbed the most.
> Drifting off to sleep with visions of sheep jumping over 6 foot
> 3-vertices icosapentahedragons...zzzzzz.
>
> I hope this gives you something to chew on. All books were bought in the
> UK, except for the last, which can be ordered direct from Oregon Dome.
> Ask them to include loads of brochures to drool over. (With apologies to
> other dome mfrs, I'm sure all your brochures are just as desirable :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cotty
>
>
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
>       ========== Web: http://www.domegroup.org
>    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>  =============== To unsubscribe, write: unsubscribe DomeHome-H
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>
>
>
> ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:52:02 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Fw: Fog gun
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Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 2:18 PM
Subject: re: Fog gun


> From: Bill Perk <billperk@midwest.net>
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:09:25 -0500
>
> The following is the caption under photographs 88-91 from the
> "Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller" (first published in 1960;
> reissued by DoubleDay Anchor Books in a 1973 paperback edition):
>
>  "Fuller considered the Dymaxion bathroom as an interim,
> mass-producible, sanitary facility; his fog gun, pictured here,
> afforded a new method of bathing. It combined compressed air and
> atomized water with triggered-in solvents. The kinetic force of the
> high-pressure air stream was utlized without the skin-damaging effect
> unavoidable in high-pressure needle-pointing of water streams.
> Generalizing from his Navy experience, in which engine room greases
> on the skin were almost unnoticeably removed by wind and fog on deck,
> Fuller reasoned -- and later demonstrated -- that the feeding of
> atomized water and air at high pressure on to the skin surface would
> accelerate the surface oxidation, and release the surface cells
> themselves, along with the attached dirt.
>  The round pictures show magnifications of the skin surface.
> Two of the pictures show the dirt interspersing the 'coral reeflike'
> structure of the pores. (1927-1948)"
>
> Ford Museum/Greenfield Village (Dearborn, MI) has Bucky's prototype
> "Dymaxion Bathroom" -- which should include the 'fog gun' -- although
> I don't know what the current state of restoration of that artifact
> may be. Hope this helps...
>
> Bill Perk
>
> >From: John Smith <vze2khtz@verizon.net>
> >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:40:15 -0700
> >
> >    Reading Bucky's "Everything I know" lectures I came upon a
> >reference to 'Fog Guns'. I was very interected in the water
> >effiecency, so I seareched. There is basically kaput on the web.
> >Does anyone know where I can find plans/vendors/patent
> >info/general stuff on the Fog Gun?
> >
> >                                                        -Andy N.
> >                                         No Need For Signatures!
> >
>
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
>       ========== Web: http://www.domegroup.org
>    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>  =============== To unsubscribe, write: unsubscribe DomeHome-H
> ================ and send to this address: requests@h19.hoflin.com
>
>
> ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:48:59 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Universal Dwelling Requirements
Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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For Fuller's list of the essential universal dwelling requirements of =
any scientifically designed house please see:

_Critical Path_, pages 255-61
_World Design Science Decade Document #2_, pages 140-56
_Architectural Design_ (UK mag), March 1960, pages ?, "Universal =
Requirements Checklist"

If the Requirements don't already exist somewhere on a web page, maybe =
someone would be willing to scan the text into an email or better yet =
onto a web page.

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>For Fuller's list of the essential universal =
dwelling=20
requirements of any scientifically designed house please =
see:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>_Critical Path_, pages 255-61</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>_World Design Science Decade Document #2_, pages=20
140-56</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>_Architectural Design_ (UK mag), March 1960, pages =
?,=20
"Universal Requirements Checklist"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If the Requirements don't already exist somewhere on =
a web=20
page, </FONT><FONT size=3D2>maybe someone would be willing to scan the =
text into=20
an email or better yet onto a web page.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Joe S Moore<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net">joemoore@qwest.net</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:49:01 -0400
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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 >>  The problem with this is that the air molecules are too large
>> compared to the size of the model, so accurate data was impossible to get.
>> The solution turned out to be to replace the air with helium.

> Given the same temperature and pressure, all gas molecules are the same size.

Or at least they all take up the same amount of room, since they're far apart,
and the spacing just depends on temperature and pressure. (At super cold it
wouldn't be so simple, quantum "size" would be more important, but at room temp
they're so spread out the size doesn't matter, they rarely touch each other.)

But the MASS of helium is less compared to the mass of air, and I expect that
for acoustic effects it was the relation of mass to model size that was
important. The speed of sound thru hydrogen (which is even less massive than
helium) is about 4 times faster than the speed of sound thru air. I forget the
details but the reason your voice sounds so high pitched when you've filled your
lungs with helium is related to the difference in the speed of sound as it
leaves your mouth and enters air.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:16:17 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: grubs in domes
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Everyone,

Please don't lose sight of the well-documented fact that all the other human
physical shortages (adequate housing, food, health care, etc, for all)
cannot be solved until the problem of adequate renewable energy for all is
dealt with first.  Bucky's series of World Game Simulations showed that
every problem ultimately came down to energy--or the lack of it.  And the
quickest way to solve the energy problem is to establish a global energy
storage/distribution system (which is already about 50% in place).

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 2:54 PM
Subject: re: grubs in domes


> From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dickfischbeck@hotmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:42:22 -0000
>
(snip)

> I am not alone in telling you that I came into Domeworld through my
> explorations into the real possibility that everyone on the planet can
have
> their own safe home. This is a priority.  Food and health care for all are
> two more priorities. After that, anything goes as far as I am concerned.
> Mass-produced shelter can make 21st century housing available to everyone
> worldwide.
>
(snip)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:55:15 +0100
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From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Re: Universal Dwelling Requirements
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Joe S Moore  wrote:

> If the Requirements don't already exist somewhere on a web page, maybe
> someone would be willing to scan the text into an email or better yet onto
> a web page.

I have a discussion of it here:

http://www.nous.org.uk/UniversalReqs.html

Paul Taylor

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<TITLE>Re: Universal Dwelling Requirements</TITLE>
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Joe S Moore &nbsp;wrote:<BR>
<BR>
&gt; If the Requirements don't already exist somewhere on a web page, maybe=
 <BR>
&gt; someone would be willing to scan the text into an email or better yet =
onto <BR>
&gt; a web page.<BR>
<BR>
I have a discussion of it here:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.nous.org.uk/UniversalReqs.html<BR>
<BR>
Paul Taylor<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>

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Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:40:55 -0400
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From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I forget the details but the reason your voice sounds so high pitched when you've filled your lungs with helium is related to the difference in the speed of sound as it leaves your mouth and enters air.

I think the medium just favors the higher frequencies???
Acts like a (sound) selective filter.

I dunno if this will help, but for scale models of airplane wings, sometimes chord aspect ratios are altered for scale model test trials.
BillSF9c
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:50:25 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Universal Dwelling Requirements
Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
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Re: Universal Dwelling RequirementsPaul,

Thank you so very much!

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Paul Taylor=20
  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 7:55 AM
  Subject: Re: Universal Dwelling Requirements


  Joe S Moore  wrote:

  > If the Requirements don't already exist somewhere on a web page, =
maybe=20
  > someone would be willing to scan the text into an email or better =
yet onto=20
  > a web page.

  I have a discussion of it here:

  http://www.nous.org.uk/UniversalReqs.html

  Paul Taylor


------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C0F3E5.E34FEBE0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: Universal Dwelling Requirements</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG>Paul,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Thank you so very much!</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore<BR></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net"><STRONG>joemoore@qwest.net</STRONG></A=
><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute<BR></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dpt@NOUS.ORG.UK href=3D"mailto:pt@NOUS.ORG.UK">Paul =
Taylor</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B> =
bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU">GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU=
.BUFFALO.EDU</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 13, 2001 =
7:55=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Universal Dwelling =

  Requirements</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Joe S Moore &nbsp;wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; If the =
Requirements don't=20
  already exist somewhere on a web page, maybe <BR>&gt; someone would be =
willing=20
  to scan the text into an email or better yet onto <BR>&gt; a web=20
  page.<BR><BR>I have a discussion of it here:<BR><BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.nous.org.uk/UniversalReqs.html"><STRONG><FONT=20
  =
size=3D4>http://www.nous.org.uk/UniversalReqs.html</FONT></STRONG></A><BR=
><BR>Paul=20
  Taylor<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C0F3E5.E34FEBE0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:28:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Flattening conduit ends for a dome
Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>

Doug,

See http://www.desertdomes.com/tips.html
It's from the Desert Domes web site of Burning Man fame.

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

"Douglas Patton" <dwkp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9g6hpq016p1@enews1.newsguy.com...
> Hi folks!
>
> We're considering building a couple of 2v 15' diameter domes for Burning
Man
> and are looking for a way to flatten the ends that doesn't involve a
> sledgehammer.  Has anyone done this with a press?  I have read people who
> say that even 2 ton presses start to give out after 100+ squishes.  Has
> anyone tried it with a 6 or 12?  Thanks for any help on this.
>
>   -Doug Patton, Town Crier, Firetown
>   www.firetown.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:42:44 -0500
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From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Flattening conduit ends for a dome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I have use an arbor press and have made close to 1000 struts and it is still
going strong.
While my terminology for this type of press may not be accurate, the machine
itself works fine.
It is a manual (hand operated/muscle powered) press commonly use for force
fitting machine parts together.
There is no way this machine will fail under the loads required to squish
EMT ends.
Added bonus: It will pump you up (ala Hans & Frans).
Cost: <$100 for a good used one.

-Tony.

http://environmentalvalving.cjb.net <http://environmentalvalving.cjb.net>


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Joe S Moore [SMTP:joemoore@QWEST.NET]
        Sent:   Wednesday, June 13, 2001 11:28 AM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: Flattening conduit ends for a dome

        Doug,

        See http://www.desertdomes.com/tips.html
        It's from the Desert Domes web site of Burning Man fame.

        Joe S Moore
        joemoore@qwest.net
        http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
        Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

        "Douglas Patton" <dwkp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
        news:9g6hpq016p1@enews1.newsguy.com...
        > Hi folks!
        >
        > We're considering building a couple of 2v 15' diameter domes for
Burning
        Man
        > and are looking for a way to flatten the ends that doesn't involve
a
        > sledgehammer.  Has anyone done this with a press?  I have read
people who
        > say that even 2 ton presses start to give out after 100+ squishes.
Has
        > anyone tried it with a 6 or 12?  Thanks for any help on this.
        >
        >   -Doug Patton, Town Crier, Firetown
        >   www.firetown.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:31:50 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Where Are We From: 6/12/01
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Arturo,

For tons of info re geodesic domes see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 8:04 AM
Subject: re: Where Are We From: 6/12/01


> From: pascalin@bigfoot.com
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:54:33 -0500
>
> Hi!
>
> I'm a geodesic dome enthusiast.  We don't have a dome home but my daughter
> and I have built several geodesic sphere models. She won second place on
> her junior highschool's science fair with her project on Geodesics.
>
> We live in the City of Santiago de Queretaro in Mexico (20.6000N,
100.3830W)
>
> Arturo Pascalin
(snip)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:33:45 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Fw: Dome books
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: re: Dome books


> From: Cotty <cottycam@mac.com>
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:24:01 +0100
>
> Joe S. wrote:
>
> >Amazon UK sells a book about domes; see
>
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0906212928/qid=992325795/sr=1-1/02
6
> >-4949089-3504447
> >
> >It's called 'Geodesic Domes' by Borin Van Loom 4.95 pounds
> >Paperback (15 November, 1994)
> >Tarquin Publications; ISBN: 0906212928
>
> Amazing coincidence. Yesterday (June 12th) SWMBO [She Who Must be Obeyed]
> and myself spent the day in London. While visiting the Stanley Spencer
> exhibition at the Tate British on Millbank, I chanced upon the very book
> in the shop. Haven't seen it before, and at 4.95 (UKP) certainly bought
> it. Inside there is a nicely laid-out array of geodesic designs that you
> can cut out to build three-dimensional models. In fact I should have
> bought two books, one for browsing and one to cut up. Photocopying is a
> possible option, although on the reverse sides of the model pages, there
> are the various letters denoting apexes, finely matched so that they line
> up during construction. I doubt this is a necessity.
>
> The only worrying thing was that the book was classified in the
> children's section!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cotty
>
>
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
>       ========== Web: http://www.domegroup.org
>    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>  =============== To unsubscribe, write: unsubscribe DomeHome-H
> ================ and send to this address: requests@h19.hoflin.com
>
>
> ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:52:03 -0400
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From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
In-Reply-To:  <008001c0f3bc$15f8c500$01c8c8c8@com.planetc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:49 PM 6/12/01 , you wrote:
> >>  The problem with this is that the air molecules are too large
>>> compared to the size of the model, so accurate data was impossible to get.
>>> The solution turned out to be to replace the air with helium.
>
>> Given the same temperature and pressure, all gas molecules are the same
size.
>
>Or at least they all take up the same amount of room, since they're far
apart,
>and the spacing just depends on temperature and pressure. (At super cold it
>wouldn't be so simple, quantum "size" would be more important, but at room
temp
>they're so spread out the size doesn't matter, they rarely touch each other.)
>
>But the MASS of helium is less compared to the mass of air, and I expect that
>for acoustic effects it was the relation of mass to model size that was
>important. The speed of sound thru hydrogen (which is even less massive than
>helium) is about 4 times faster than the speed of sound thru air. I forget
the
>details but the reason your voice sounds so high pitched when you've filled
your
>lungs with helium is related to the difference in the speed of sound as it
>leaves your mouth and enters air.

Thank you both for the clarification/re-education.  So do different gasses
react differently to heat and convection at different scales of size?  I know
we put Argon and Krypton in between our window panes as an insulating layer...

Brent
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:53:24 -0400
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From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Flattening conduit ends for a dome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Doug wrote:
<< Has
> anyone tried it with a 6 or 12?  Thanks for any help on this.>>

       I use a 6 ton press when flattening 3/4" electrical conduit.  The
problem is that the frame for the press needs to be quite strong.  I use
steel L channel from the local hardware store bolted to 2x6 cross pieces.=
 =

You will need approximately 1/4" steel plate for the pressure area becaus=
e
this is where the you get break down in material.
Photos of conduit domes built with press:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/conduitd.htm
       For a more practical 14.5' diameter dome I would use a preinsulate=
d
preroofed 2 frequency wood panel dome.  Photo at:
http://www.geocities.com/goldenmeandomes/14panel.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 05:50:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      The US Mayors conference, June 22-26, Detroit -- what of the Act

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            13-JUN-2001  5:50
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 this is the text of a half-page flyer about the Mayors Conference,
 given-out at the Council meeting, concerning the Voting Rights Act
 and the 3 Mayors prior refusal to agendize it.  I've been told that
 the US Mayors Conference has the agenda online, although
 I have yet to see it.


 the formatting has been broken-up, of course.


 SM Mayor Feinstein, VP Gore, 'Doctor' Jeffords and their 'Hyde-entities;'
 Mayors Conference, June 22-26, Detroit
 Did the Voting Rights Commission dyss the Supreme Court's 3/27/00 decision
 pro Gore?
 (Viz, if a tree chainsaw'd itself in the forest, and the N.Y.Times
 reporteth not,
 then do'st peristalsis ceaseth !-)
 Prior DemCon Chair Romer, Riordan & WAND have much to answer-for,
 re Belmont, the qua N-rallies (Conventions) and the Voting Rights Act:
 Voting Rights Act o'65: www.LWV.org/elibrary/pub/impact98_00i.html.
 Voting Rights Clarification Act (HR-4961) o'0 (July 26, Rep.Mel Watt)
 versus the 527 Cmtes.' pre-enablement of the Financial Services
 Modernization Act o'9;
 see www.larouchepub.com or Thomas.gov  (or call 888/EIR-3258 for a sample
 of EIR newsmagazine).
 Contact Guv/DNC Chair/50-State Standards Chair/LAUSD Spt.Romer:
 213/625-6251.
 NB: Prop.34 was a local slushfund-analog, for the season, of the 527
 Cmtes.

 Only the Mayor is paid to go to the coming Mayors Conference,
 though 2 past mayors'd gone with Mayor Genser, before.
 It must be argued that all once-and-future mayors should go, now,
 regardless of the agenda, never given.  That is,
 all living mayors and sitting Councillors that wish
 to hold the office, could be "on board" to, finally, demand that
 the recent report of the Voting Rights Commission,
 which has no "legal binding authority," be particularly heeded
 in regard to its finding for the 1982 amendment to the Voting Rights Act
 of 1965, the Act's renewal, next year, and
 what may not be included in the report - just as it has been o'erlooked
 by all local media, save The Santa Monica Mirror of Feb.7 - which is the
 need
 for a re-enactment of the Act, since the Supreme Court's pre-Conventions
 decision
 to nullify the Act's absolutely crucial, though tiny, Federal oversight
 of the Parties [*].  What's the ACLU to do?
    (When a State or Federal Party wanted to change its bylaws,
 the change had to be submitted to a Federal Judge!)
    My "activism" on behalf of the Act in the last two general elections,
 may have been the big requirement to have kept me off
 of the ballot - even as a write-in - which need seems
 to have been steered by the RAND Corp.,
 considering its board's recent 4 (four) members who were
 on the 'committee to re-elect a George,' and the Chairman
 who was chosen as Secretary of Treasury, and Dir. Volcker.
 My 200-word sample ballot statement had references
 to these crucial things, and to the locals/locos of the presidential
 candidates
 of the R, D, G Parties.  Especially, as contractee to RAND and
 creator of Danny's rep to cover a rewrite (The Pentagon Papers),
 Noam may uncover this, now.
    (Although 2 others sued, my half-filed case was covered
 by Council's change of the Muni Code, to reflect the clear intent
 of the State Elections Code, as I'd argued for months to Council and Clerk
 over the silly, Council-made technicality.)
    The Mayor promotes "instant run-off voting" and "'hood councils" [#];
 is this a proper thing for him to do?
    Council Ofc. handed me a rumor that the Mayor "might" not go, and
 he refused to say, at my Public Comment!

 A 'Riordan Learning Center' and a Snake Oil fiasco, May 4th LAWeekly.com;
 Open Belmont cinco de Mayo-Juneteenth?

 Charter Preform and Dom.C-I - the old RAND 'Gotham' Hack?
 [NB: New Fed 11/17/97 (800/929-7566).  WwwTarpleynet]

 The 11% MTBE Solution or AQMD's so-Green Deisel!
 [NB: by vol. in gasoline, made of nat'l gas [*]; HCCI, Sci.Am.]

 A "Diocletian" Edict Isn't Just Price Controls per a Wall St. J.;
 it's CEOs thralled to a rentier-finacier class!  [USAG, **]

 Testing for the Vocational Railroad Tracking o'Nixon
 [NB: see Quincy's quadrivium and cosmometry pages]

 Space'8 and the Exposition Right-of-way
 [NB: only peri-industrial plank in 3 SM general elections, to national
 level]

 * V. Buscaglia, The Betrayal of America; don't have to buy his brief on
 #32, though!
 FLASH: SM Mirror, Feb. 7 - only L.A. paper to run DNC's sick act!
 * Www.tarpley.net/BUSHB.htm; les ducs d'Enron!
 ** Ed., Industry Standard: "Ashcroft's 100% rating in IT industry;" the IT
 Boy?
 # Rectal Dysplay Unit: NO; public source-works?  "[Milken] Reinvests
 Himself," Times 9/7/98;
 "Big Mac" Charter Reform '75, New Fed 11/17/97 (800/929-7566) - by WAND!
 Supt. Helga Zepp?  Classical humanist ed. versus Riordan's and
 Milken's ("Apollo Inv." and LABA) 'Big WAND' Charter reformasi!

 ??? 3pm June 16, Marx lovest Lincoln: SM Prom., Bore/Gush/Nadir attack on
 VRA, effigies illed;
 lecture, Midnight Special Books !!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Jun 2001 05:57:32 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: grubs in domes

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            13-JUN-2001  5:57
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the big problem is with this quaint word, renewable,
 esp. due to the "commonsense" patina of "petrol" that lays
 all over every thing in the field.  I had an almost-fruitless talk
 with a guy at a Council meeting, last night, about this,
 giving my (now few-years-old?) assertion that the stuff is not fossilized.
    what it may have to *do* with fossils is for you forensic fullerenes
 to configure!

 of course, you have our #1 dystributir of "petrol,"
 with their "beyond petroleum" campaign immediately following
 that merger (if only in the USA),
 to contend that "it's just bad old dinosaurs!"

 thus quoth:
  Please don't lose sight of the well-documented fact that all the other
 human
  physical shortages (adequate housing, food, health care, etc, for all)
  cannot be solved until the problem of adequate renewable energy for all
 is
  dealt with first.  Bucky's series of World Game Simulations showed that
  every problem ultimately came down to energy--or the lack of it.  And the
  quickest way to solve the energy problem is to establish a global energy
  storage/distribution system (which is already about 50% in place).

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:42:20 -0400
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From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Fwd: Re: grubs in domes
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Sorry, I intended this to go to the list.

>
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:33:38 -0400
> To: Joe S Moore
> From: "Brent A. Verrill"
> Subject: Re: grubs in domes
>
> At 10:16 PM 6/12/01 , you wrote:
> >Everyone,
> >
> >Please don't lose sight of the well-documented fact that all the other
human
> >physical shortages (adequate housing, food, health care, etc, for all)
> >cannot be solved until the problem of adequate renewable energy for all is
> >dealt with first.  Bucky's series of World Game Simulations showed that
> >every problem ultimately came down to energy--or the lack of it.  And the
> >quickest way to solve the energy problem is to establish a global energy
> >storage/distribution system (which is already about 50% in place).
> >
> >Joe S Moore
> >joemoore@qwest.net
> >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> While I understand and agree that adequate energy supply to everyone is a
key
> to sustainable development, I also believe very strongly that buildings that
> use energy efficiently and perhaps even generate energy are one of the
> largest components of this goal.  In the U.S., nearly half of all energy
> expended goes towards our buildings in some manner:  raw material
> harvesting/production, transportation of materials, construction,
demolition,
> heating, cooling, ventilating, lighting, etc, etc.  A building that can do
> some or all of these things without any external energy input is a building
> that need not be connected to the world-around electrical grid, except to
> sell any surpluss generation.
>
> What if a small percentage of newly constructed buildings didn't need any
> external power sources beyond their initial construction, in fact could
> generate excess energy?  Such technologies exist today.  Developing nations
> could utilize them until the global grid comes to their village.  The fact
> that they don't is a consequence of politics, logistics, economics, global
> agribusiness, globalization, and above all, ignorance.
>
> The paradign that we must grow out of all of our problems will ultimately
> kill us all.  Aside from what our fearless leaders, the oil brothers, say,
> conservation (to the point of not needing energy at all) can solve most if
> not all of our energy problems and is possible in many cases.
>
> Brent
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Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:43:03 -0400
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From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Fwd: Re: Hi-Tek Domes
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I intended this one to go to the list also. Sorry.

>
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:47:42 -0400
> To: Joe S Moore
> From: "Brent A. Verrill"
> Subject: Re: Hi-Tek Domes
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> >
> >Excellent analysis re energy content, but what about combustibility
> >("burning"), consumability (eaten by bugs)?
> >
> >Joe S Moore
> >joemoore@qwest.net
> >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
>
> Combustibility is a problem with wood composites, of course.  However, most
> bugs don't like wood composites.  The glue to edible fiber ratio is usually
> too high.  If you have ever seen a piece of plywood lying on the ground that
> has been eaten by termites, you get an idea.  The termites will eat channels
> in the sheet of veneer exposed to the ground pretty quickly.  It takes them
> quite a while to break through the glue layer to the next layer of veneer.
> They will, eventually, but it takes a while.  Now consider a sheet of OSB
> (oriented strand board, also called flake board) lying on the ground.  Each
> flake of yummy wood is encapsulated within a matrix of yucky resin.
>
> Water, the enemy of any wood product, is even more so to composites.  Any
one
> who has had a laminate kitchen counter top with a particle wood substrate
> where moisture has seeped under the laminate will know exactly what I am
> talking about.
>
> Brent
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Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:21:37 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Information
Comments: To: Mike Vaughan <mike@abesap.com>
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Mike,

Finding any info re triaxial weaving is extremely difficult.  There just
doesn't seem to be very much out there.  I suggest you use the few refs that
I have managed to collect to do a search in the best library that you have
access to.  If that library doesn't have the document that you are looking
for, use their inter-library loan service to get it.  There will probably be
a small charge for each request, but it's worth it.  I was able to get
access to materials from all over North America--including Canada.  Also,
search the Library of Congress using the Internet.

Ref: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3WayVs2Way.htm

Good luck,

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Vaughan" <mike@abesap.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:25 AM
Subject: Information


> Where can I get the information listed on this site about Triaxial weaving
> vs. Biaxial weaving?  Any help would be great.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mike Vaughan
>
> Mike Vaughan
> Apple Berry Enterprises, LLC
> 888-A.SAP-JOB, that's 888-272-7562
> ICQ# 13903285
>
> Please send Job Orders or Resumes to mike@abesap.com or fax to
770-321-0423
>
> For more information about Apple Berry Enterprises, LLC or to see our
> contract and permanent job opportunities, please see our web page:
> http://www.abesap.com
>
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Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:40:02 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Fw: Universal Dwelling Requirements
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Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:59 AM
Subject: re: Universal Dwelling Requirements


> From: "Ken G. Brown" <kbrown@tnc.com>
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:58:11 -0600
>
> UNIVERSAL REQUIREMENTS OF A DWELLING ADVANTAGE
>
> Teleologic Schedule by Buckminster Fuller
>
> Check list of the
> Universal Design Requirements
> of a Scientific Dwelling Facility,-
> as a component function
> of a new world encompassing,
> service industry,-
> predesigned,
> Rather than haphazardly evolved,-
> and thus avoiding
> a succession of short circuited
> and overloaded burnouts
> of premature, and incompetent
> attempts to exploit the ultimate
> and most important phase of
> industrialization, to wit,
> the direct application of highest
> potential of scientific advantage
> toward advancement of world living
> standards-
> to be accomplished by inauguration
> of a comprehensive anticipatory
> technology scientifically informed
> of the probable variables and
> possible randoms-
> this new volition to succeed
> the era of 'survival', -
> that is survival-despite,-
> despite preponderant submission to ignorance, -
> ignorance of future probabilities
> and general behaviour of nature-
> which heretofore 'survival', tolerated
> lethal opportunism, wherein the
> progressive deteriorations bred
> emergencies which called upon
> scientific ability to perform last
> minute miracles but only as a
> curative dispensation of morbid
> inertia.
>
> The universal design requirements of a scientific dwelling facility
> are that it accomplish comprehensive advantage for man over all
> primitive factors of energetic nature.  That factors may be broadly
> classified in four parts as follows:
>
>
>
> I.   Essentially RANDOM and SUBJECTIVE phenomena
>
> A. Exterior variables- factors of destructive or useful potential; of
> nakedly intolerable magnitudes, inescapably impinging
>
> IA Structural, mechanical or chemical interception and control of
> externally impinging factors, either by rejection, reflection,
> deflection
>
> Through shunting, channelling, impounding, modulating and / or
> retiming of volumetric flows of variable external factors of nakedly
> - intolerable magnitudes
>
> 1.  Immunization against aperiodic, energetic interferences, -
> externally impinging at intolerable magnitudes and heretofore
> classified as cataclysmic, = because exceeding the practical stress
> abilities of as yet available technology - However - (new era
> essence).  Since accomplishment of higher physio-chemical stress
> abilities in, for instance, supersonic flight and snorkle submarine,
> the stress abilities of technology in general now far exceed the
> predictable stresses of the hitherto cataclysmic structural
> interferences - the 180 m.p.h. velocity of Antarctic hurricane or
> Pacific typhoon is now a relatively minor aeronautical velocity - of
> - interaction of designed structures.  External impingements are
> classified in order of frequency of probable occurrence and relative
> magnitudes.
>
> a. Cataclysmic  -  Improbably annual, possibly 'never', and least
> frequent, but of highest stress when occurring
>
> 1. earthquake
> 2. tornado
> 3. hurricane
> 4. typhoon
> 5. avalanche
> 6. landslide
> 7. volcanic eruption
> 8. bombardment
> 9. forest fire
> 10. tidal wave
> 11. plague
> 12. radio activity
> 13. lethal gases
> 14. Bacteriological Warfare
>
> b.  Dangerous   -  probably annual, of borderline 'disaster' magnitudes
>
> 1. gale
> 2. local fire
> 3. flood
> 4. pestilence
> 5. lightning
> 6. selfishness (self-preoccupation pursued until self loses its
> way and self - generates fear and spontaneous random surging, i.e.
> panic, the plural of which is mob outburst in unpremeditated wave
> synchronizations of the individually random components)
> a. vandals
> b. marauders
> c. meddlers
> d. politics
> e. fanaticism
> f. commercialism
> g. materialism
>
> c. Inclement     Of high seasonal frequency and of low orders of
> stress or of naked intolerability
>
> 1. fumes
> 2. hail
> 3. rain
> 4. snow
> 5. dust
> 6. electrolysis
> 7. oxidation
> 8. heat
> 9. cold
> 10. epidemic
> 11. vermin
> 12. insects
> 13. fungi
> 14. minor random missiles
>
> 2.  Rejection, or deflection for delayed or immediate use as
>
> a.  energy, admitted into direct work as, for instance, radiation or
> electronic reaction, or
>
> b.  indirectly into work as, for instance, impounded wind
> (aeronautical) or water (hydraulic) power
>
> 1. piped - for direct use
> 2. wired - for direct use
> 3. valved - for direct or delayed use
> 4. stored - in cistern, tank or battery for delayed use
> 5. stored - in thermal bank or compost bins, etc.
>
>
> B. Interior variables- factors of destructive or useful potential; of
> nakedly intolerable magnitudes, inescapably impinging
>
> IB Dynamic control of internally impinging factors
>
> 1. Interception of and dispellment of the momentum trends of
> ignorance, - through incorporation of experience informing natural
> design replacements, realized in physical principles.
>
> 2. Interception and neutralization of bacteria by isolation of ,
> - or by direct elimination
>
> 3. Elimination of physical fatigue
>          a.  human robotism and drudgery by provision of adequate
> mechanics of technical advantage
>
> 4. Elimination of psychological fatigue (repression) by
>  a.  removal of accident hazard through mechanical adequacy
> (don't proofing)
>  b.  removal of arbitrary cellular limitations to permit free
> interaction of living functions
>  c.  provision for selective privacy by push-button sound,
> sight and smell barriers surrounding any   interior space
>
> 5. The elimination of emotional fatigue
>  a.  factors stimulating nerve reactions to be automatically
> controlled in 'neutral' until voluntarily brought into play by the
> occupant through:
>
> 6. provision of mechanics for wide range in selection of means
> and degrees of sensible realization of the prosaic or harmonic
> phenomenon
>   a.  visual
>         b.  aural
>         c.  tactile
>         d.  olfactoral, i.e. taste and smell
>
>
> C. Exterior constants of relative inertia forgotten through
> persistent obviosity and randomly re-encountered
>
> IC Control by anticipatory design over exterior constants of inertia
> forgotten through persistent obviosity and only randomly
> re-encountered
>
> 1. Constants of environment, i.e. the mud forgotten between
> rains, odorous winds from remote sources, snowdrifting
>
> 2. Control devices installed for seasonal duration only
> requiring inordinate time investments
>
> 3. Chemical accumulations
>
> 4. Biological accumulations
>  a.  vegetation, composts, weed
>  b.  insect, animal residues, nestings, general growth changes
>
> 5. Surprise emergencies of environmental complex unique to
> locality, i.e. possible water, oil, gas springs and seepage
>
> II.  Essentially ROUTINE and SUBJECTIVE phenomena - internal to
> dwelling- predictably periodic, rhythmic
>
> A. Inescapable functions of the organic processes, internal to
> dwelling and external to man.
>
> IIA Provision for (unselfconscious) (spontaneous) mechanical
> performance of inevitable organic routines of the dwelling and its
> occupants with minimum of invested attention or effort
>
> 1. Fueling of house (external metabolism)
> 2. Realignment of house
> 3. Scavenging of house
>
>
> B. A. Inescapable functions of the organic processes, internal to
> dwelling and internal to man.
>
> IIB Provision for (unselfconscious) (spontaneous) mechanical
> performance of inevitable organic routines of the dwelling and its
> occupants with minimum of invested attention or effort
>
> 1. Fueling of occupants (internal metabolism)
> 2. Realignment of occupants (sleep) by allowed muscular, nerve
> and cellular realignment accomplished by designed elimination of
> known restrictive factors.
> 3. Scavenging of occupants
>  a.  internal, i.e. intestinal, etc.
>  b.  external, i.e. bathing or pore cleansing
>  c.  mental, i.e. elimination by empirical dynamics
>  d.  circulatory: external, - atmospheric control
>     internal, - as respiratory functions.
>
>
> C. Interior constants of relative inertia forgotten through
> persistent obviosity, and regularly rediscovered, e.g. furniture to
> be lifted with each house-cleaning
>
> IIC Control by anticipatory design over interior constants of
> relative inertia forgotten by fatigue cloture of feedback
> sensibilities and routinely re-encountered - (such as heavy furniture
> to be moved about daily for cleanliness operations, storages to be
> overhauled to obtain the tentatively retained devices of possible or
> infrequent use)
>
> 1. By provision of adequate occupational - specialty storage means
> 2. By home employment of travel equipment
> 3. by dimensional reduction (e.g. of collections of large data
> to microfilm)
>
>
> III. Essentially RANDOM and OBJECTIVE phenomena- internal to
> dwelling- initiative, spontaneously intermittent- teleologic
>
> A.  Investment of earned increments of lifetime for free will
> regeneration of the advantage of life over a priori environment.
> Realization of man's potentials as an individual
>
> IIIA Provision of ready mechanical means, complementing or
> implementing, all development requirements of the individual's
> potential growth phenomena, - allowing the facile, scientifically
> efficient, no-energy-or-time-loss, - spontaneous development of self
> disciplined education, by means of
>
> 1. Conning, i.e. selectively stimulated awareness of the
> momentary interactions of universal progressions accomplished by
> means of facile references to vital data on
>  a.  history
>  b.  news
>  c.  forecasts
>  calls for a conning facility combining book and periodical
> library, radio, television facilities, systematically arranged
> incoming reports on:
> 1. current supply and demand conditions
> 2. currrent dynamic conditions - weather - earthquakes - latest
> scientific research findings
> 3. social dynamics - surfacing of commonweal problems of
> comprehensive readjustment to new potentials and concomitant
> obsolescence factors
> 4. latest technical reference in:
>  a.  texts
>  b.  movie documentation
>  c.  television university (soon evoluting to increasing
> importance and reliability as the autonomous dwelling facility
> becomes widely available)
>
> 2. Adequate mechanics of personal articulation (prosaic or
> harmonic) for the spontaneous investment of the imagination -
> gestating intellectual - increments of experience, - (teleology)
> which trend ever to satisfy the evolving needs - prosaic or harmonic
> - routine or plus.  This category of original articulations also
> includes the necessity or crystallization of universal progress
>  a.  instruments are tools of communication
> 1. direct
> 2. indirect
> 3. aural
> 4. visual
> 5. tactile
>  a.  music, writing, drawing, measuring instruments
>  b.  wood, metal and chemical working tools
>  c.  typewriter
>  d.  wire - tape - and - disc - all - purpose - recorder -
> radio - phonograph
>  e.  easel
>  f.  photographic equipment - taking, developing, printing, projection
> 3. Recreation - appropriate equipment to full physical development
> 4. Procreation
>
> B.  Implemented and insulated spontaneity of feedback acceleration-
> continuity of the self amplifying individual
>
> IIIB   Insulation, or isolation, of the instrumented initiatives
> Private diaries, tape recordings, films, instrumentally recorded data
> as yet incomplete, undigested, ungestated as complete teleologic
> regeneration
>
> C.  Instrumentation of 'home' magnitude physical realizations of
> man's potential as a continuous- man, i.e. a team of individuals
> overlapping and weaving around individual birth - deaths and separate
> generations, a Total Man who never sleeps, dies, nor forgets.
>
> IIIC  Home Magnitude means of displaying, exposing, experimenting and
> measuring of 'target' or 'trend to target' or 'trend following'
> assumptions - of - realization - initiative - and - articulation. -
> i.e. 'vital navigation ' or 'teleology', i.e. personal and social and
> cosmic feedback control.  The comprehensive 'frames' - relative to
> which display, exposure, experiments, measurement and progressive
> dynamic trend assumptions may be referenced is FOURFOLD
>
> A Objective Aspect
> B Subjective Aspect Consolidated Intellectual Advantage, or 'Aids'
> 1.  Sub visible (finite) Microcosmic nuclear particles, atoms,
> molecules, cells, genes atomic charts periodic, etc., spectrographic
> charts, molecular models, biological slides
> 2.  Geo-visible (de-finite) Geographical (visible, near) , Earth
>  crystallographic, biologic, sub-surface, surface, envelope
> globes, maps, geological stratification maps, world and local
> physiological data, spectrum charts
> 3.  Astro- visible (de-finite) Macrocosmic (visible, remote)
>  comets, asteroids, planets, stars, nebula star globes,
> star charts
> 4.  Supra visible (finite) Comprehensive, Omni permeative abstracted
> 'generalized' principles gravity, radiation, number sets, group
> behavior phenomena, probability, transformations independent of
> dimensions, infinity energetic geometry devices, (vectorial,
> formative, transformative, number)
>
>
> IV.  Essentially INCISIVE and routine OBJECTIVE phenomena- external
> to dwelling- initiating a sustainable complex continuity = design
> realization of all men's joint potential- teleologic
>
> A priori Design Realization Assumptions
>
> Asking not
> why, whither, nor whence
> man-life?
> but assuming
> the accumulated experience evidences
> that biological phenomena
> in general
> and man-life
> in particular
> function in universe
> as the anti-entropic, -
> the anti-random, -
> the simple and complex organic, -
> the systematically convergent phases
> of the comprehensive cycling
> of omni energy transformations
> and therefore the realization that
> man-life's extension
> into cosmic measurement
> already billions folds
> the sensory limits of integral faculties
> presages a further successful amplification
> of the man-life function in universe
> and therefore
> that the regenerative ability of intellect
> in extension, acceleration, and expansion
> of the extra corporeal cosmic- functioning-stature
> of the man-life in universe
> is realizable
> in comprehensive design initiative
> relayed through industrialization
> and therefore the function
> of comprehensive design initiative
> relayed through industrialization
> and therefore the function of
> comprehensive design
> is most naturally and effectively
> preoccupied with omni-abetment
> of the realization in full
> of the potentials of the 'individual' complex -
> an organic atomic nebula
> identified superficially as man -
> man potential includes
> regeneratively improving potentials
> of sequential derivative orders
> of increasing advantage of the organic
> over the (random-entropic) chaos growths.
> 'Individual' man's highest potential
> may be realized in terms of full interaction
> of all men's potentials -
> ergo man's universal function trends
> to amplify first the pull potential
> of the individual, -
> but inherently multiplicative man - life.
> Therefore
> on first priority
> in design consideration
> is the full realization
> of individual potential
> in order to reach the second derivative, -
> full realization for all individuals.
> Keys to design realization
> are the anthropological measurements,
> of the limiting factors
> of corporeal man,
> beyond which extra-corporeal articulation
>   of the integral faculties
> may be accomplished by extension in principle
> through atomic-complex trains,
> and energetic transformations
> to cosmic stature advantage.
> Universal conditions of design realization
> commence with the static and dynamic
> dimensions of man
> and his basic behavior involvements
> of which there exists a wealth of data.
>
> The whole program of realization is to be considered in  the
> following order which breaks into two primary categories or phases:
> (1) the initial work to be undertaken by the individual prior to his
> engagement of the aid of associates and (2) original and initial work
> to be undertaken by the first group of associates.  These two phases
> may be subdivided as follows:
>
>
>
> A.  Investment of earned increments of technical advantage of the
> science- industry complex in design realization of the complex
> dwelling facility service
>
> IVA Research and development by initiating individual (prior to
> inauguration of design action and development action involving
> full-time employment of others).
>
> Inauguration of a general work pattern as a natural pattern
> coinciding with best scientific procedure to wit:
> Preliminary
> Initiation of diary and notebook
> Initiation of photographic documentation
> Initiation of tactical conferences
>
> PHASE I, INDIVIDUAL
>
> 1. Comprehensive library study of accrued developments within
> the pertinent arts*
> a. past
> b. contemporary
>
> 2. Listing therefrom of authorities available for further information
> a. local, personal contact
> b. remote, correspondence
>
> 3. Pursuant to information thus gained, calling at suggested
> local laboratories
> a. university
> b. industry
> c. setting up of informative tests for first-hand knowledge in own
> laboratory
>
> 4. First phase of design assumption
> a. consideration of novel complex interaction unique to project
> b. preferred apparatus from competitive field
> c. design of appropriate flowsheets
>
> 5. Flowsheets submitted to:
> a. those competitive specialists who have proved helpful in step b and c
> b. industrial producers of similar equipment and assemblies
> c. make informative tests for closure of gaps supporting assumed theory
>
> 6. Submit specifications and drawings of general assembly and
> unique component parts for informative bids by manufacturers
> a. second redesign of flowsheet based on available and suggested
> apparatus, price information, etc.
>
> 7. Prepare report consisting of diary of above supported by
> photographic documentation and collected literature - with trial
> balance conclusions of indicated economic advantage (which, if
> positive, will inaugurate Phase II)
>
> B.  Implementation and insulation of synergetic feedback of higher
> order    accruing to spontaneous group realizations of newly evolving
> potential
>
> IVB Design and development undertaking - involving plural authorship
> phase and Specialization of full -time associates
>
> Consideration of Relationship of prototype to industrial complex by
> constant review of principles of solution initially selected as
> appropriate to assumptions
> Adoption of assumptions for realization in design of pertinent
> principles and latest technology afforded
>
> 1. Comprehensive survey of whole sequence of operations from
> original ;undertaking to consumer synchronization.
> Realization strategy #1 by individual (Phase I) -
> Realization strategy #2 by associates (Phase II)
>
> a. Physical tests in principle of the design assumptions' unique
> inclusions not evidenced in available data
> b. General assembly drawings (schematic) providing primary
> assembly drawing schedule reference
> c. General assembly assumption, small scale models and mockup full size
> d. primary assembly, sub-assembly and parts calculations (stress)
> e. Trial balance of probable parts weights and direct
> manufacturing costs (approximately three times material costs;
> includes labor, supervision and inspection) and forecast of overall
> cost magnitudes, and curve plotting, - at various rates of
> production, rationed to direct costs per part and ' all other costs,
> - i.e. 'overhead', tool and plant 'amortization', 'contingencies',
> 'profit'
> f. 'Freezing; of general assembly and its reference drawing
> g. drawing for first full size production prototype commences in
> general assembly, primary assembly, sub-assembly and parts
> h. Budget of calculating and drawing time is set with tactical
> deadlines for each
> i. Parts drawing and full size lofting and offset patterns
> j. Prototype parts production on 'soft tools' commences
> k. Sub-assembly and primary assemblies with 'obvious'
> corrections and 'necessary' replacements (not 'improvements' or
> 'desirables' which must be deferred until second prototype is
> undertaken after all-comprehensive physical tests have been applied)
> l.
> m Photography of all parts and assemblies
> n. Full assembly completed and inspected - cost appraised with
> estimates of possible 'improvement' savings to be effected
> o. static load tests
> p. Operational tests
> q. Assembly and disassembly tests
> r. Photography of all phases
> s. Packaging and shipping tests
> t. Estimates of savings to be effected by special powered field tools
> u. Opinion testing
> v. Final production 'clean-up' prototype placed in formal
> calculation and drawing with engineering budgeted with deadlines
> w. Parts cost scheduled by class 'A' tools and time
> x. Production tool layout fixed
> y. Production tools ordered
> z. Production dates set
> a'. Lofting and offsets produced of full-size = test 'masters'
> and templates
> b' Fabrication of special jigs and fixtures
> c'.. Production materials ordered
> d' Production tool-jig-fixture tune-up
> e'.. Parts and assembly testing
> f'. Filed operation scheduling
> g' Field tools ordered
> h'. Distribution strategy in terms of initial logistic limitations
> i'.. Field tests with special tools
> j'. Field tools ordered or placed in special design and fabrication
> k'. Test target area selected for first production
> l'. Production commences
> m First field assemblies with power tools
> n''. Maintenance service instituted and complaints: alleviated,
> analyzed, change orders of parts instituted
> o'. Plans for 'new yearly model improvement run through all or
> previous steps - for original production
> p'. Cycle repeated
>
> 2. Production and distribution velocity assumptions
> 3. Plotting the assumed progressive mass-production curves to
> determine basic velocities of new industry
> 4. Tensioning by crystalline, pneumatic, hydraulic, magnetic means
> 5. Compressioning by crystalline, pneumatic, hydraulic, magnetic means
> 6. Consideration of manufacturer's basic production forms, -
> relative to proposed design components for determination of minimum
> steps, minimum tools, and minimum waste realization
> 7. Establishment of priority hierarchies of effort
> 8. Time and energy and cost budgeting
> 9. Assumption of industry responsibility for field practices,
> not only in mechanical and structural, but in economic design
> 10. Designing for specific longevity of design appropriate to
> anticipated cycles of progressive obsolescence and replacement
> ability as ascertained from comprehensive economic trend curves
> 11. Designing with 'view to efficient screening of component
> chemicals for recirculated employment in later designs'
> 12. maxima and minima stated and realized performance
> requirements per unit of invested energy and experience and capital
> advantage of tools and structures employed and devised
> 13. Logistics assumptions compacted shipping considerations as
> original design requirement in
> 14. Consideration of tool techniques
> 15. Consideration of material's availability
> 16. Consideration of materials ration per total design
> 17. Elimination of special operator technique forming
> 18. Elimination of novel special soft tool designing
> 19. Numbers of:
> 20. Numbers of forming operations
> 21. Number of manufacturing tools by types
> 22. Schedule of forming operations included on parts drawings
> 23. Decimal fraction man hours per operation
> 24. Designed - in over-all one - man - man ability at every stage
> of operation
> 25. Schedule of design routines and disciplines
> 26. Establish a 'parts inventory of 'active and obsolete drawings
> - from beginning
> 27. Establish a 'parts' budget of 'required' designs of 'parts'
> for assemblies and major assembly and general assembly and molds
> 28. Drawing dimension standards
> 29. Establish a numbering system of controlled parts
> 30. Establish purchasing techniques, jig and fixture, lofting techniques
>
>
>
> C.  Instrumentation of industrial or institute / university magnitude
> realization of man's potential as a continuous - man.  i.e. a team of
> individuals overlapping and weaving around individual birth - deaths
> and separate generations, a Total Man who never sleeps, dies, nor
> forgets.
>
> IVC Industrial Magnitude means of etc.
> This section repeats all content of IIIC except at Industrial
> magnitude instead of at Home magnitude.
>
> PUBLIC RELATIONS   To run concurrently with all phases of IVB
>
> 1.  Education of public
>
> Rule I:  Never show half finished work
>
> a.  General magnitude of product, production , distribution.  But no
> particulars that will compromise latitude of scientific design and
> production philosophy of IVB
> b.  Publicize the 'facts', i.e. the number of steps before 'consumer
> realization'
> c.  Understate all advantage
> d.  Never seek publicity
> e.  Have prepared releases for publisher requests when 'facts' ripe
>
>
>
>
>
> Note:  That I and II above are subjective and defensive and exclusive
> and that III and IV are objective and offensive and inclusive.
>
> Note:  That I defines the outer ramparts and II the inner defenses
> while III represents the inner initiative - taking and IV the full
> grown outer offensive - conquest - contact.
>
> Note:  That this arrangement is geometrically teleologic, i.e.
> omni-directionally convergent - divergent - propogative.
>
>
>
> >Subject: Universal Dwelling Requirements
> >From: The DomeHome List <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
> >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:02:46 -0500
> >Mime-version: 1.0
> >Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> >
> >From: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@qwest.net>
> >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:48:59 -0700
> >
> >For Fuller's list of the essential universal dwelling requirements of any
> >scientifically designed house please see:
> >
> >_Critical Path_, pages 255-61
> >_World Design Science Decade Document #2_, pages 140-56
> >_Architectural Design_ (UK mag), March 1960, pages ?, "Universal
> >Requirements Checklist"
> >
> >If the Requirements don't already exist somewhere on a web page, maybe
> >someone would be willing to scan the text into an email or better yet
onto a
> >web page.
> >
> >Joe S Moore
> >joemoore@qwest.net
> >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
>
>
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
>       ========== Web: http://www.domegroup.org
>    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>  =============== To unsubscribe, write: unsubscribe DomeHome-H
> ================ and send to this address: requests@h19.hoflin.com
>
>
> ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:04:19 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Information request
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
Comments: cc: Shorty104533@msn.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Danielle,

For some refs about domes based on the octahedron see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-O.htm
(scroll down to "Octahedra-Based")

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:39 AM
Subject: FW: Information request


> From: Robbie Lusher <domeco@zipworld.com.au>
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:38:26 +1000
>
> Hi Rowley
> Could you please forward this request to the Domehome List.
>
> >Hi My name is Danielle Cappelli and I go to Sussex technicacal High
> >School and 4 star school. I am in carpentry and I need the angles
> >for a Octagonal Geodesic dome house for a state Competition called
> >VICA which is Vocational industry clubs of America. I would be
> >extremely happy if you would send me floor plans or the angles of
> >the dome
> >
> >Thank you for your time.
> >
> >E-mail address Shorty104533@msn.com
> --
> With kind regards
>
> Robbie Lusher
>
> The Dome Company
> Sydney, Australia
> www.domecompany.com.au
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:21:16 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@GARGOYLE.SEL.SONY.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-Tek Domes
In-Reply-To:  Your message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:36:12 PDT."
              <B74AB20C.207A%triorbtl@sover.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> >changes.  The problem with this is that the air molecules are too large
> >compared to the size of the model, so accurate data was impossible to get.
> >The
> >solution turned out to be to replace the air with helium.  The model was
> >scaled
> >to the appropriate size for the helium molecule rather than the normal air
> >mixture.  I'm pretty sure the frequency spectrum was also adjusted to
> >accomodate the different acoustic medium.  The result was the accurate
> >modeling
> >of acoustic spaces at minimal cost.
>
>         Given the same temperature and pressure, all gas molecules are the
> same size.
>
        That's incorrect, actually. At the same temperature and pressure, they
may occupy the same volume of space (PV=NRT), or they might all be moving at
the same velocity, which is a function of temperature. But individual atoms
and molecules have different atomic masses and sizes. Hydrogen is smaller than
oxygen, which is smaller than chlorine, krypton, radon, etc. (I think that's
also why some gasses are heavier than air, and some are lighter. Less mass in
the same volume, using that same PV=NRT law.)


--
Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
       Like geodesic domes? See http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html
           ---------------------------------------------------------
      Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:28:14 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Reparations for African-Americans

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-JUN-2001 10:28
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 there's so much effort to blame Grant e.g.
 for not being able to stop all racism with Reconstruction (but
 good letter in the NYTimes on his efforts against the Klan;
 you must really thank Woodrow Wilson for its revival
 in this blighted century).
    in that regard,
 one can read Lincoln's excellent counter
 to Douglass in the debates, wherein he shows
 how the Founders assured that slavery *would* be eliminated;
 not that it could, at the outset, as a British institution!

 see our book, _The Civil War:
 America's Battle wtih Britain, 1850-1868_ by Allen Salisbury
 (Ben Franklin Booksellers, 800/453-4801);
 it includes many source documents.

 thus quoth:
  May I suggest an excellent source for the history of the
  Reconstruction period is "After Appomattox: How the South Won
  the War."  By a black Florida historian, I found it just excellent at
  clarifying the role of Johnson, Grant, Hayes, the "Carpetbaggers"
  and "Scalawags" and the rest.  paul hartley

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:55:02 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Bush's Faith-based, Market-enforced Intiatives, U.S. Mayors Confe

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-JUN-2001 10:55
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 finally, since the Mayor refused to even say if he'd *go*,
 even after my public comment, I found the agenda on the web
 (in distinction to the last time,
 when the agenda for the meeting was brought to our meeting
 for the funding, acutally in time for the *3* or 4 mayors
 of the City that went to agendize new stuff;
 they refuzed to say, Boo!, about the VRA, then).
    well, Bush is speaking before lunch,
 "Mayoral Leadership on Faith-based Initiatives,"
 which I presume to include the Green Coalition, although
 Mayor F. may not be quite ready to get the bucks
 to fund Earthday, as a pan-Pagan thing.

 they'd alread had an "Energy Summit," but
 immediately following Bush's fervor is a "lunch greetings"
 from the regional presiedent of BP --
 which either stands for BP, Beyond Petroleum, or British Play.
    the mayor did *fund* his trip, so, if
 any of the other once-and-future mayoralty are going,
 they're doing secretly out-of-pocket.

 IF YOUR MAYOR IS GOING, MAKE DAMN-SURE THAT HE KNOWS
 ABOUT THE MARCH 27, 2000 DECISION pro GORE
 ON THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT OF 1965 (against its party-provision),
 although it's apparently not agendized,again.

 look it "up" under "U.S. Mayors Conference."

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 >  http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:58:02 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Nature 5/31/01

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            14-JUN-2001 10:58
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I separated-out the most important "anomaly" on the IPCC pricis,
 http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/spm22-01.pdf
   high-temp. daily min. ocer land "likely" increased
   by 0.2 deg.C. AT NIGHT, twice the increase of daytime!

 There was a similar thread on geodesic-l,
 concerning the horror of using "petroleum" for housing - of which
 no-one has disputed it to be biomassive, although
 the "tradition" is to call it a fossil!  (re that thread, "Re: Hi-Tek
 Domes,"
 it must be said that formaldehyde occurs in forests, two, and
 a few hours after ingesting garlic .-)

 Re: [Quaker-P] ANWAR
 Oil is not "produced." Nor is it harvested, although that is closer to the
  reality. Oil is "extracted" or "removed." The term "harvested" has
 overtones
  of agriculture and renewability which really don't apply to oil; the term
  "produced" is inappropriate because in the final analysis we don't make
 the
  oil. A very long geological process did that. No amount of drilling,
  producing, harvesting, can change the simple fact that the supply of oil
 is
  finite and that some day that supply will run out.

 [Quaker-P] Nature 5/31/01
 A change of climate for big oil pp 516-8


  The article begins by lauding John Browne, chief executive of BP, for
  acknowledging in 1997 that carbon dioxide probably causes global warming,
  and recommending action, 3associating his company with perhaps the
 biggest
  environmental threat to our planet.2

  The behavior of BP and Royal Dutch/Shell is contrasted with US companies,
  notably ExxonMobil (Esso outside the US). The US companies 3face a summer
 of
  protests in Europe. Environmental groups accuse these companies of
  influencing President George W.Bush9s decision to reject the Kyoto
  Protocol--the international treaty that aims to limit emissions of
  greenhouse gases--and hope to mobilize a consumer backlash against the
  firms.

  3Despite the differences in environmental policy, profits are the
 ultimate
  measure of success for all the companies. Each oil giant is facing a
  dilemma--should it gamble on investments that may prepare it for the
 future,
  when concerns about global warming have severely restricted the burning
 of
  fossil fuels, or reap maximum short-term rewards while the oil business
  lasts in its present form?2

  All of the large companies accept climate change, and all are reducing
 their
  own emissions. 3But behind the companies9 environmental rhetoric, their
  approaches are very different. Only BP and Shell have made firm
 commitments
  to reducing their emissions of greenhouse gases and backed them up with
  targets and deadlines. They are also making the heaviest investments in
  alternative sources of energy.2


 These products all have the same thing in common:  they are made by
  chopping up
  trees in some manner into smaller pieces and then binding them together
 with
  glue.  The most common glue used in all of these products today is
  urea-formaldehyde based resins that are derived from oil.  Concerns about
  breathing in VOC's, of which formaldehyde is one (not to mention the
 VOC's
  emitted from ground-up wood) are fairly well known.  Indoor air quality
  suffers
  in areas where such materials are used.  To my knowledge, no
 non-petroleum
  based resins are being used to manufacture wood composites.  A few
 companies
  are offering products which have greatly reduced off-gassing of VOC's,
  however.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:49:37 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      OT Re: Hi-Tek Domes > Chem MOLES
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

> >         Given the same temperature and pressure, all gas molecules are the same size.
> >
>         That's incorrect, actually. At the same temperature and pressure, they may occupy the same volume of space (PV=NRT), or they might all be moving at the same velocity, which is a function of temperature. But individual atoms and molecules have different atomic masses and sizes. Hydrogen is smaller than oxygen, which is smaller than chlorine, krypton, radon, etc. (I think that's also why some gasses are heavier than air, and some are lighter. Less mass in the same volume, using that same PV=NRT law.)

***If you look at a MOLE of any gas, elemental or compounded, one sees tha same number of "atoms" or "molocules"... as best I recall, in a given volume, just with differing weights.
Help me out here, chem majors...
BillSF9c
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:54:14 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Treasury Sec wants to abolish Medicare, SS, Corpor

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            15-JUN-2001  8:54
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow, now those were "fighting" words, as they say.
    doesn't this mean,
 the main avenue that we have, left, is the insistence that
 the Dems actually stop any further appointments
 from the "Federalist" Society, the Mont Pelerin Soc., and
 their usually suspect affiliates (Heritage e.g.) ??
    please realize, once and for all, that
 O'Neill's recent Chairmanship at 'WAND' Corp. is almost
 as openly laissez-faire or feudalist (look
 at their Fall *WAND Weview* cover-atricle,
 "Transcendental Destination," as well
 as the tiny tech-fix for the "California" e-crisis).
    Rumsfeld and Rice also hail from WAND, along
 with a bunch of Bush 1 folks and Gulf War Sirs,
 like Sir Brent Scocroft.  this is the outfit
 that's run the "military industrial complex"
 since the end of WW2!

 thus quoth:
                                   FAIR-L
                      Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting
                 Media analysis, critiques and news reports


  ACTION ALERT: "Political Dynamite" Fails to Explode
  Extreme proposals of Treasury's O'Neill mostly unreported

  June 13, 2001

  When a high-level government official calls for drastic changes in U.S.
 law,
  it ought to be big news. But in an interview reported by the Financial
  Times' Amity Shlaes (5/19/01 & 5/22/01), treasury secretary Paul O'Neill
  called for sweeping changes in U.S. tax and social policy, and some three
  weeks later, those statements have made hardly a ripple in the U.S.
 media.
  Most Americans have probably not heard a word about them.

  In the interview, O'Neill called the current U.S. tax system "an
  abomination" that required changes to its "very structure." His preferred
  changes? O'Neill "absolutely" supports the elimination of taxes on
  corporations-- and the shifting of the tax burden to individuals, saying
  government would work better if it "collected taxes in a more direct way
  from the people."

  He also called for the abolition of Social Security and Medicare, on the
  grounds that "able-bodied adults should save enough on a regular basis so
  that they can provide for their own retirement, and, for that matter,
 health
  and medical needs." In fact, O'Neill believes the U.S. should reconsider
 the
  whole purpose of taxation: "National defense is a federal
 responsibility,"
  Shlaes paraphrases O'Neill as saying, "but all other outlays need
 review."

  And O'Neill assured Shlaes he was not speaking only for himself: "Not
 only
  am I committed to working on this issue, the president is also intrigued
  about the possibility of fixing this mess."

  The Financial Times described O'Neill's comments (approvingly) as
 "radical"
  and "political dynamite."  Yet the story has so far failed to take hold
 in
  the U.S. press.

  Three columnists at New York's Newsday noted O'Neill's remarks: Robert
 Reno
  (who said the Treasury Secretary "comes across as a man who has paid a
 lot
  of taxes and clearly resents it"-- 5/27/01) Marie Cocco (5/31/01) and
 Paul
  Vitello (5/24/01). An obviously irked Vitello took it the furthest,
 actually
  calling O'Neill's spokesman at Treasury to confirm that these were not
  "made-up quotes":

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:26:46 -0600
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Dentistry? Molars?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Here's a link to a page for anyone interested in calculating errrrrrrrr  =
 "Moles" like Ex F.B.I. guy Hansen, . errrrrrrr ummmmmmm .... I tried to =
use the caculator in an effort to figure out why after paying his =
mistress 80,000 bucks he still never got a blow job. Confused???=20

http://www.klbproductions.com/yogi/reference/molar.html

And please don't anybody loose your head vacationing in the Fillipines =
this summer.=20



------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0F5C8.BC130000
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here's a link to a page for anyone =
interested in=20
calculating errrrrrrrr&nbsp;&nbsp; "Moles" like Ex F.B.I. guy Hansen, .=20
errrrrrrr ummmmmmm .... I tried to use the caculator in an effort to =
figure out=20
why after paying his mistress 80,000 bucks he still never got a blow =
job.=20
Confused??? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.klbproductions.com/yogi/reference/molar.html">http://w=
ww.klbproductions.com/yogi/reference/molar.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And please don't anybody loose your =
head=20
vacationing in the Fillipines this summer. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0F5C8.BC130000--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:31:15 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Fly's Eye Dome
Comments: To: jay@salsburg.com
Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative";
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        boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0030_01C0F647.170FDB80"


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Jay,

I love your Fly's Eye web page!  Only have 3 comments:

1. The 6 meg VR of the interior should be on a separate page because it =
is such a large file (6megs) & takes so long to download.

2. Have you or anyone else ever developed cost estimates for your =
design?  Tooling, cost if mass-produced, delivery & installation, etc, =
not counting land. =20

3. Would the structure be self-contained? If so (I hope), any details?

Ref: http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/threed/threed.html

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff =
background=3Dcid:002e01c0f681$c36eb380$54cafea9@oemcomputer>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Jay,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>I love your Fly's Eye web page!&nbsp; Only =
have 3=20
comments:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>1. The 6 meg VR of the interior should be on =
a=20
separate page because it is such a large file (6megs) &amp; takes so =
long to=20
download.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>2. Have you or anyone else ever developed =
cost=20
estimates for your design?&nbsp; Tooling, cost if mass-produced, =
delivery &amp;=20
installation, etc, not counting land.&nbsp; </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>3. Would the structure be self-contained? If =
so (I=20
hope), any details?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>Ref: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.salsburg.com/nightlife/threed/threed.html">http://www.=
salsburg.com/nightlife/threed/threed.html</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore<BR></STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net"><STRONG>joemoore@qwest.net</STRONG></A=
><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute<BR></STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 Jun 2001 02:53:11 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      it's time for the US Mayors Conference; know where your Mayor is?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            16-JUN-2001  2:53
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 A Brief Philology of Time per US Demos
 --------------------------------------------------

 Circa 1787 Cce, Voting Rights pre-established for all Americans (USA;
 in Lincoln-Douglass debate, Lincoln shows British oligarchical heritage
 of slavery was foiled, contingently).

 Xirca 18th C, anti-imperialist Monroe Doctrine written by J.Q.Adams.

 Xirca 19th C, fossil fuels uncovered as industrial resource, dinosaurs
 blamed.

 Xirca 20th C, Svente Ahrrenius coins "global warming," computers enslaved
 to the first-off paradigm for a century.

 Xirca 1978, "Hole" in ozonosphere created upon fly-over by TOMSatellite,
 although
 Dobson/Nicole noted "anomaly" during IGY (1958-9) of wintertime
 south-polar vortex.

 Xirca March 27, 2000, Voting Rights Act nullified by Supreme Court in
 favor of DNC,
 per provision of the 1965 Act that applied to it, Mich. and Ark. Dem
 Parties, and
 all other state anad federal parties, to allow bylaws to be altered,
 willy-nilly-silly.

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:46:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Testing

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            17-JUN-2001  7:46
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the comments of Scty. O'Neill to the (City of London) *FT* are certainly
 the most indicative of where educational policy is going,
 to the supposedly lowest bidder with the best test-outcomes;
 in the bureacratese of the system, it is actually called OBE,
 outcome-based education, for both the day-to-day minutiae
 of the testing, and the general vocational "tracking" thrust
 of the whole, anti-liberal arts ideal.
    I can point, locally, to the utmost specifics,
 without actually knowing any of the details of the canned eduware
 of Milken's "empire" in private schools (as it was called,
 in a sort of unnoted advertorial in the LATimes (9/7/98)),
 nor what is purveyed at his top-of-the-line Milken High School
 (or yeshiva, atop the SM Mtns.).  in particular,
 Milken's partner in fronting for the 'WAND' Corp.'s Charter Reform
 -- they brought the initiative to the ballot,
 as well as planned the thing at their LABA meetings at the Milken Ctr,.,
 in Santa Monica) -- is the still-Mayor of LA,
 who is trying to get a "dollar/year" job as the Computer Czar
 at LAUSD, if not going directly to run for Governor.

 all of these things are promoted in the *WAND Weview* of Fall,
 publiched before the election, and likely to be pushed
 by the triumverate of its recent directors on the Cabinet.
    as well, other affiliates of the Mont Pelerin Soc.,
 Heritage and so forth, are being groomed as appointees, and
 represent elements that the so-called Dem leadership
 in the Senate can stop, before the "administrative Leviathan" is resumed!

 thus quoth:
  I believe at least at one time Kentucky evaluated kids by portfolios
 instead
  of or in addition to tests.  This put together the best work of a child
 over
  time.     This I think is the best way to evaluate kids and a school.
 The
  tests should only be used to find the weaknesses that the teachers need
 to
  know in order to help the child.
  Of course the portfolio approach is very difficult and time consuming.

  I believe it was 60 Minutes which  before the election had an excellent
  segment on testing in Texas and how  schools were devoted entirely in
  teaching to the test, how emotionally stressed some tiny children were
 etc.
  I believe also some schools also encourage their poorer kids not to come
 to
  school on  test days.

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:52:34 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] SR: Policy Library, Child Soldiers, drug prices, d

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            17-JUN-2001  7:52
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  6.  "Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions" [.pdf]
  http://www.nap.edu/catalog/10139.html?onpi_newsdoc06062001

 this is good, because it's also available in HTML,
 which is excerptable, unlike the other two (variations of Adpbe PDF).

 thus quoth:
 climate science. The body of the WG I report is scientifically credible
 and is not unlike what would be produced by a comparable group of only U.S.
 scientists working with a similar set of EMMISSIONS SCENARIOS
 with perhaps some normal differences in scientific tone and emphasis.

    However, because the IPCC reports are generally invoked as the
 authoritative basis for policy discussions on climate change, we should
 critically evaluate this effort so that we can offer suggestions for
 improvement. The goal is a stronger IPCC that will lead to better
 definitions of the nature of remaining problems, a clarity in expressing
 both robust conclusions and uncertainties, and thus aid achievement of the
 best possible policy decisions. We must also consider options for an
 improved process, given the enormous and growing investment required by
 individual scientists to produce this assessment. Three important issues
 directed to this goal are described below.


 that was chapter 7, with EMPHASIS ADDED.

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 >http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:12:45 +1000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Williams, Jayden C (Contractor)" <WilliJC1@AZ1.BP.COM>
Subject:      Re: OT Re: Hi-Tek Domes > Chem MOLES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

If I remember correctly, a mole of gas occupies approximately the same
volume regardless of composition (approx. 22.4 litres).  Therefore, the
heavier the gas atoms or molecules, the heavier that 22.4 litres of air
gets.  1 mole of Hydrogen would therefore weigh 2 grams at sea level and
oxygen would weigh 1 grams at sea level.  In this way, gasses can be either
heavier or lighter than the usual reference point of the air around us.

Hope this helps,

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill' 'Eagleton' [mailto:OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET]
Sent: Saturday, 16 June 2001 05:50
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: OT Re: Hi-Tek Domes > Chem MOLES


> >         Given the same temperature and pressure, all gas molecules are
the same size.
> >
>         That's incorrect, actually. At the same temperature and pressure,
they may occupy the same volume of space (PV=NRT), or they might all be
moving at the same velocity, which is a function of temperature. But
individual atoms and molecules have different atomic masses and sizes.
Hydrogen is smaller than oxygen, which is smaller than chlorine, krypton,
radon, etc. (I think that's also why some gasses are heavier than air, and
some are lighter. Less mass in the same volume, using that same PV=NRT law.)

***If you look at a MOLE of any gas, elemental or compounded, one sees tha
same number of "atoms" or "molocules"... as best I recall, in a given
volume, just with differing weights.
Help me out here, chem majors...
BillSF9c
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at
http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:57:46 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: OT Re: Hi-Tek Domes > Chem MOLES
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

> If I remember correctly, a mole of gas occupies approximately the same
> volume regardless of composition (approx. 22.4 litres).  Therefore, the
> heavier the gas atoms or molecules, the heavier that 22.4 litres of air
> gets.

*OK so far...

>1 mole of Hydrogen would therefore weigh 2 grams at sea level and
> oxygen would weigh 1 grams at sea level.

*Let's call this 1 cuppa java short though, :>) as you have hydrogen, At.Wt. ~1, twice as heavy as Oxygen, At.Wt. ~16, since At # is 8.

*Just tell us, does 02 occupy the same space as 01, (ASSUMING, of course, the "hungry" O1 would not immeadiately merge to become O2, as is it's tendency...)

BTW, Thx for all the great Dome stuff of late Joe...
BillSF9c

>In this way, gasses can be either
> heavier or lighter than the usual reference point of the air around us.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Jay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 'Bill' 'Eagleton' [mailto:OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET]
> Sent: Saturday, 16 June 2001 05:50
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: OT Re: Hi-Tek Domes > Chem MOLES
>
>
> > >         Given the same temperature and pressure, all gas molecules are
> the same size.
> > >
> >         That's incorrect, actually. At the same temperature and pressure,
> they may occupy the same volume of space (PV=NRT), or they might all be
> moving at the same velocity, which is a function of temperature. But
> individual atoms and molecules have different atomic masses and sizes.
> Hydrogen is smaller than oxygen, which is smaller than chlorine, krypton,
> radon, etc. (I think that's also why some gasses are heavier than air, and
> some are lighter. Less mass in the same volume, using that same PV=NRT law.)
>
> ***If you look at a MOLE of any gas, elemental or compounded, one sees tha
> same number of "atoms" or "molocules"... as best I recall, in a given
> volume, just with differing weights.
> Help me out here, chem majors...
> BillSF9c
> __________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at
> http://webmail.netscape.com/
>
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:35:29 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Nick_Lansing@CONDENAST.COM
Subject:      a question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm fact checking an article that mentions a housing project conceived by R.
Buckminster Fuller in the
late 60s for Harlem. Apparently this project resembled nuclear cooling towers
and was intended to be 100 stories. Has anyone heard of this -- and is the above
description accurate?
Best regards, N.L.
PS: The Buckminster Fuller Institute recommended I contact you.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:09:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: a question

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            18-JUN-2001 12:09
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I think that what you mean, is shown in _Critical Path_;
 it's the E.St Louis "Old Man River Project,"
 which was devized with the (mostly poor) people, there.

 thus quoth:
  late 60s for Harlem. Apparently this project resembled nuclear cooling
 towers

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:42:17 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] NMD Poll

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            18-JUN-2001 12:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 ah, now you nearly quote Acton's *other* famous saying, although
 it's one that he has had considerable more involvement with,
 on the side of keeping legislation against British safe-housing
 of "islamic" terrorists e.g. -- so long
 as they spill no blood in England!

 thus quoth:
  Terrorism (or freedom fighting - whichever term is adopted) is not a new

 I now quote the Newsweek article on A.Adams, since
 it's a good antidote for such people as his lawdship!

 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/17/opinion/17DOWD.html?
 ex=993821093&ei=1&en=140af9dbe139a0ae

 the dyscussion about problems of space, or
 the "five 9s" factor in testing into the Apollo Program,
 is also a matter of actually "having" a space program,
 as opposed to the continued take-down of Kennedy's legacy.
    of course, that means many more of "men" in space,
 as an actual matter of habitation, not just
 of getting payloads of weapons-systems "up."

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:46:28 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: OT Re: Hi-Tek Domes > Chem MOLES

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            18-JUN-2001 12:46
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 you're getting there.  "mole" is derivative on *molecule*;
 for gasses, it's just a function of pressure & volume & temperature,
 and the number of molecules (Avagadro's number of'em per mole .-)
    yes, H+ or O-- would take the same space,
 til reacted with itself upon agitation, as H2 and O2.

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:44:23 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      neutrinos
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Check out the geodesic container for the neutrino detector.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/19/science/19NEUT.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:46:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] June 21st's Rolling Blackout

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            19-JUN-2001  6:46
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 concerning "standby mode," considering the leaps & bounds
 that have been made for "power-factor controllers" in most respects,
 perhaps esp. in those software implimentations in home computers,
 this really reminds me of less of a real concern,
 than the minutae of a "diocletian edict"  (and
 the Wall St.J. recently called them "Diocletian price-controls,"
 which is a ridiculous characterization of rather sweeping measures,
 even under Nixon and Carter; they didn't use the term, edict !-)

 today's papers give good juxtaposition
 of the administration's ability to polarize the populace,
 or at least its media.  first let's look at a couple
 of recent decisions that they made:
 Bush signed a "dirty bunch" (dozen?) intl. agreement
 that included DDT, against all advice of those who need it
 to keep mosquitoes down in sub/tropical (and temperate summertime,
 Egnland's "auge" e.g.). of course,
 this is based upon the shibboleth of the EPA's first big decision,
 which was admitted by Ruckeleshaus to be entirely political
 (obituary just in for a guy that made a correlation
 of bird pop. decline (osprey etc.), that may have been cyclical,
 into causation; Carson ran with the story).
    also based upon the EPA's fatuous "linear no-threshold" pradigm,
 a bunch of folks in Texas have kept a low-level rad-waste dump
 from being opened, and the administration shows no signs
 of doing anything to get Yucca Flats open, either.

 today's NYT: "The [nuke] plants would largely be built
 in factories to cut costs & quality problems ...
 the NRC has already revised its licensing process, although
 no one has tested it."
    today's LATimes heralds the new FERC price-caps, and
 a shift to the Business section shows CalPERS extending
 its "shreholder values" concern beyond its investments
 in Enron et al ad vomitorium, to the rest
 of its Calif. investments that are effected by the e-cartels.  but,
 just beneath that is aninteresting, short article
 about Philips Petrol and (the infamous) El Paso Corp.,
 to bring liquified natural gas (LNG) from "as far away
 as Alaska and Australia."
    the subtext is that the $1.6- and 1.3-billion "developments
 in the Timor Sea" are the Commonwealth beneficiaries
 of the break of E.Timor from Indonesia,
 which we have been telling about, for a long time.  here,
 it is not even given but just barely, in passing!
    the kicker that is to bely the FERC machination,
 is at the end:
 "El Paso, the biggest US interstate gas pipeline owner,
 expects gas to account for 50% of US power generation
 in five years, compared with 10% a decade ago.
    "In Calif..gas prices have been averaging $12.11 per BTU
 so far in 2001.  Prices need to remain higher
 than 1990s levels to support El Paso's plan & rival projects."

 of course, they don't put that in oil-barrel equivalents,
 and rarely note that deisel engines (and generators) are so
 efficient, compared to gasoline (see latest *Sci.American*
 on "Homogenous Charge Compression Ignition Engines," or
 super-duper-gREEN dEISEL -- but recall that
 the damnation of deisel is, as usual, based
 upon teh *extremis* of the LNT graphical technique
 of the EPA, of 3 decades' dominance !-)

 (in terms of E.Timor -- I can't recall,
 whether that's the Dutch-catholic side of Timor, or
 the Portuguese-catholic one --
 both the "SE Asia Crisis" and the "Y2K glitch" can be seen
 as a part of an oligarchical shakedown of national economies,
 via their henchmen at the IMF, TI et al,
 with Suharto being the chief "fall-guy;" is that not, so?)

 thus quoth:
  NOTE:  Items you still have plugged in but have turned off are in
 "standby"
  mode.  Standby consumes small
  amounts of electricity.  The New York Times reported (2-27-01) that
 standby
  and appliance recharging
  can typically represent 5 to 26 percent of a household's electric bill.

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:49:13 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Support the Voters' Bill of Rights !

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            19-JUN-2001  6:49
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   OK: support HR-4961, the Voting Rights Clarification Act
   of 2000 (D, Mel Watt; July 26).

   maybe it's proper in the new ifno age, for DC to be a state (or,
   as another suggested, for most of it to be redeployed
   into W/Virginy).
      other suggestions are not problematic, but
   the thing about thet debate-access ignores one awful thing:
   the 3rd Dem on the ballot, most places in the Dem primary,
   was not allowed in, even in California's Times-LaOpinion/CNN debacle
   (in which Bradley had already given-up the ghost,
   in Michigan (see M.E.L. for the hard tabulation
   of the Dem primary; yes, Virginia, there was one, even though
   you managed to keep our guy out, in you !-))
      then, if you consider that Nader could very easily have run
   as a "real" Dem "since '84, '88, '92, '96,"
   according to the terse quote -- that was all of it -- in the NYT
   (as quooth in the Daily News, here in L.A.), some
   of the 3rd-party rhetoric is diminished.

   as for instant run-off, this is just another rule-change,
   which'd cause folks to run, differently, as well
   as creating a lot of parliamentiarism and "coalition" stuff,
   which seems to be questionable; is it?...  only one other
   person showed-up at an IRV meeting, last week, and
   I was going to speak against it!  (of course, although
   it was not billed as such, it was run by the Greens,
   as the guy at the center office naturally assumed
   that I was one; heh-heh).

   finally, wake-up, please, to the fact that
   Gore squng a deal with the Jim Crow High (tee-hee) Court,
   last March 27th, that did make the tiny oversight
   of the parties, null-and-void;
   that was the unreported refusal to hear the appeal
   of Sentelle's 3-judge panel's agreement
   with the DNC's lawyer, Keeney, Jr.,
   that the VRA is unconstituional in that respect --
   parties are just ordinary associations, of course!

   "when they came to get my neighbor,
   a jewish gay communist raw-quiche-eater,
   I could see the writing on the wall,
   and I joined the American Nazi Party,
   the next day!"

   thus quoth:
    Strict Enforcement and extension of the
          Voting Rights Act. As the vote in Florida and many other states
          demonstrated, the intimidation and disenfranchisement of
   communities of
          color still goes on. The federal Justice Department must
 strengthen
   its
          vote enforcement division to swiftly investigate and prosecute
   those
    who
          act in this way. The Voting Rights Act, some provisions of which
   are
    scheduled
          to expire in 2007, should be extended.

    Abolishment of the Electoral College

   oops; forget that!
      this is the problem with "internet voting" schemes
   of Dirty Dick Morris et al.  contrary to Prof. Chemerinsky's assertion,
   each delegation of the EC is a deliberative body,
   when required, as it clearly was, and not just for Al's sake;
   they meet in the state capitals, and i-voting might supercede
   this most essential of a state's right.
      it could have worked, again, in spite of Gore's dumping
   of the general election in Arakansas, and
   his refusal to use the VRA in Florida (see Bugliosi's article
   in The Nation: not even when Rhenquist asked him
   to argue for 2 extra minutes!)

   --The Duke of Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:36:46 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: a question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nick,

See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Ha-Hd.htm
(scroll down to "Harlem")

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: <Nick_Lansing@CONDENAST.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:35 AM
Subject: a question


> I'm fact checking an article that mentions a housing project conceived by
R.
> Buckminster Fuller in the
> late 60s for Harlem. Apparently this project resembled nuclear cooling
towers
> and was intended to be 100 stories. Has anyone heard of this -- and is the
above
> description accurate?
> Best regards, N.L.
> PS: The Buckminster Fuller Institute recommended I contact you.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Jun 2001 18:33:27 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Bucky Dissertation
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>From the Arizona Republic (Phoenix, AZ), May 18, 2000 p2; quote:

Student receives award=20

Rebecca Dalvesco, a third-year doctoral student in architectural =
history, theory and criticism at Arizona State University, has received =
a $7,000 National Scholar Award from the Philanthropic Education =
Organization.=20

This prestigious scholarship is awarded to women doctoral students based =
on their scholarly excellence, academic achievement, worthwhile career =
goals, and the ability to make significant contributions in their =
fields.=20

A student in the college of Architecture and Environmental Design, =
Dalvesco will use the funds to continue research on her dissertation, =
"Richard Buckminster Fuller: From Outcast to Cultural Icon."=20

In addition, the ASU Graduate College has presented Dalvesco with a =
Graduate Academic Scholarship, which will waive the in-state =
registration fees for next year.   Unquote.


Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>From the Arizona Republic (Phoenix, AZ), May =
18, 2000=20
p2; quote:</STRONG></FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Student receives award </STRONG></FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2><STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Rebecca Dalvesco</FONT>, =
a=20
third-year doctoral student in architectural history, theory and =
criticism at=20
Arizona State University, has received a $7,000 National Scholar Award =
from the=20
Philanthropic Education Organization. </STRONG></FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>This prestigious scholarship is awarded to =
women=20
doctoral students based on their scholarly excellence, academic =
achievement,=20
worthwhile career goals, and the ability to make significant =
contributions in=20
their fields. </STRONG></FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>A student in the college of Architecture and=20
Environmental Design, Dalvesco will use the funds to continue research =
on her=20
dissertation, "<FONT color=3D#ff0000>Richard Buckminster Fuller: From =
Outcast to=20
Cultural Icon</FONT>." </STRONG></FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>In addition, the ASU Graduate College has =
presented=20
Dalvesco with a Graduate Academic Scholarship, which will waive the =
in-state=20
registration fees for next year.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Unquote.</STRONG></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Joe S=20
Moore<BR></STRONG></FONT><A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net"><FONT=20
size=3D2><STRONG>joemoore@qwest.net</STRONG></FONT></A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><FONT=20
size=3D2><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</STRONG></FONT></A><BR>=
<FONT=20
size=3D2><STRONG>Buckminster Fuller Virtual=20
Institute<BR></STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_009C_01C0F8EE.550268A0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:49:26 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Mark rants ,,,,,,,, again
MIME-Version: 1.0
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No frigging way do I want to associated with other people associated =
with a <make red letters>cultural icon</no make red letters> I'm tempted =
to delete the "A Fuller Explanation"=20

 http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html

cause "I like the retarded son of a sadist we have in office right =
now!!!!

Watch carefully ...............

(((((((((((((((( OIL  ))))))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((( OIL  ))))))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((( OIL  )))))))))))))))))))))

I'm hypnotising you guys...

((((((((((((((((((((  OIL  )))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((  OIL  ))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((  OIL  ))))))))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((((((  OIL  )))))))))))))))))))))







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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No frigging way do I want to associated =
with other=20
people associated with a &lt;make red letters&gt;cultural icon&lt;/no =
make red=20
letters&gt; I'm tempted to delete the&nbsp;"A Fuller Explanation" =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html">http://www.angelf=
ire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cause "I like the retarded son&nbsp;of =
a sadist we=20
have in office right now!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Watch carefully =
...............</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(((((((((((((((( OIL&nbsp;=20
))))))))))))))))))))</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>((((((((((((((( OIL&nbsp;=20
))))))))))))))))))))</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>((((((((((((((( OIL&nbsp;=20
)))))))))))))))))))))</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm hypnotising you =
guys...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>((((((((((((((((((((&nbsp; OIL&nbsp;=20
)))))))))))))))))))))</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(((((((((((((((((((&nbsp; OIL&nbsp;=20
))))))))))))))))))))))</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(((((((((((((((((((&nbsp; OIL&nbsp;=20
))))))))))))))))))))))</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>((((((((((((((((((((&nbsp; OIL&nbsp;=20
)))))))))))))))))))))</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0F8F8.F203FF60--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:11:36 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Racism Left Unsaid...

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            20-JUN-2001  5:11
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 of course, the Plains Indians, the Six Nations et al did not exist,
 until the interactions with "the West,"
 which included notable efforts by the French Jesuits
 to get the Mohawks (e.g.) to attack the English settlers
 in the NE, into Toronto (this is where "scalping" was introduced,
 not as a US Bounty piece).
    the syncretic documentation that I've seen,
 in the Mohawk's *Aquesasne Notes* publication, although
 very evocative, I have since found to be a product
 of a (House of) Morgan scion, who was the author, and
 cretor/reviver of a network of freemasonic lodges that specialized
 in (the British imperial practice of) anthropology.
    although Ben Franklin et al are said in this work
 to have gotten much of their US constitutional form
 from the Six Nations, this may be taken with an outcropping
 of salt.  these are the same networks that created the Smithsonian Inst.,
 the Eugenics Soc. that was the example taken by the Nazis,
 from the Smithsonian conference, and so on.
    not that Frankling got *nothing* in his foray
 --I know nothing else about it--
 but the forms affected probably went as much the other way
 (knowing what we know of the anti-Lockean sources
 of American republicanism, or anti-Newtonian, as we also say .-)

 thus quoth:
  Did "the Plains tribes" even exist as "Plains tribes" before the
  introduction of the horse?  I'm not sure.  And why, exactly, did the

 source: _Treason in America_, 2000 ed., EIR Publications.

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net -- with _Against Oligarchy_ now also in paper
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:26:42 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Re: NMD Poll

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            20-JUN-2001  5:26
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 a most gratuitous imposition of terms,
 "why manned space flight has taken priority
  over unmanned even when the unmanned would be more cost effective."
    while I am sure that the preponderance of evidence has not
 been weighed, as to even the plausability of inhabiting space,
 beyond this one litho-hydro-atmosphere -- and
 what the natives will think or do -- since the assassination
 of Pres.Kennedy, I have not been leadened with enough
 of fantasy-science-fiction to be unable to hope (but
 just stick with Poe, is my only advice !-)

 well-before the Space Program was partially split
 between a civilian & military divide, the men behind Project Airforce
 had pre-empted Eisenhower on the "thinktanking" that has run it,
 since immediately following WW2.  (referring
 to Rockefeller's dysposal of his majority shares in McDonnel Aircraft,
 before the 'WAND' Corp. emerged like a butterfly from the dirt;
 all of the policies of cabinet ("Cold") warfare followed
 therefrom, as advice to Presidents, following Churchill's pulling
 of the Doctrine of the Iron Curtains, from stage-right.)

 that is to say, the military in space is not altogether inappropriate,
 but you have to weigh them in terms of "globalisation" or
 other forms of imperialism,
 which this nation was founded expressly to fight,
 for as long as we can manage it!

 thus quoth:
  So it is not suprising that this administration is pushing in that
  direction. In many ways it is an advantage that they are being open about
  it. The previous administration may not have been as enthusiastic about
  it, but the direction was there.

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Jun 2001 05:45:13 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      a \"New Congress of Berlin\" for re-balkanization?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            20-JUN-2001  5:45
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Lord Owen, Kissinger, and the Real Game
 "The Kosovo Liberation Army and even its mother organization, the
 all-powerful 'Albanian mafia,' are only instruments," explained a
 Macedonian source. "An instrument used to achieve a goal. What is the aim?
 The aim is a radical, insane re-drawing of the borders of the Balkans along
 racist criteria: the so-called ethnic purity. This, emphatically, includes
 the creation of a Greater Albania and the nightmarish emerging of
 mono-ethnic states. Lord David Owen is very explicit in this. But, besides
 the Nazi-like barbarism of such a plan, we should ask ourselves: Do they
 really think they can achieve stability with these methods? Don't they see
 that this is the sure way to trigger a spiral of war with no precedent,
 even in the Balkans?"

 As the accompanying map from the KLA's website makes clear, the
 terrorists' offensive is, in fact, coordinated with the "New Berlin
 Congress" offensive launched by Lord Owen, the former British Foreign
 Secretary and former EU Balkans plenipotentiary. On March 13, Owen made his
 proposal in the Wall Street Journal with his commentary, "To Secure Balkan
 Peace, Redraw the Map." He wrote: "What is needed today is a Balkans-wide
 solution, through a present-day equivalent of the 1878 Congress of Berlin,
 with pre-agreed boundary changes endorsed by the major powers."

 Note the date of the map of "Greater Albania" advertised on the KLA site.

 That 1878 Congress, pushed by the British Empire, but staged in Berlin,
 resulted (aside from its African looting agreements) in a Balkan carving
 party that created untold misery, waves of displaced refugees, and created
 the precondition for what became known as "balkanization." All in the name
 of the creation of stable ethnic areas.

 Owen's official proposal had been preceded on Feb. 26-27 by a U.S. Army
 War College seminar on "The Future of U.S. Presence in the Balkans." One
 participant reported: "Scholars and U.S. military officers attending the
 two-day seminar, appeared to be in almost unanimous agreement that current
 state boundaries in the Balkans should be redrawn to create 'smaller, more
 stable mono-ethnic states.' According to the delegates, new boundaries
 enshrining homogeneous ethnic entities would follow the historical patterns
 and 'natural instincts' of Europe, as witnessed over the past 300 years."

 Former U.S. Secretary of State Sir Henry Kissinger is a precursor of Lord
 Owen's "geo-racism." On Sept. 8, 1996, in a commentary in the Washington
 Post, Kissinger explained that ethnic cleansing in the Balkans could not be
 reversed, and so it should be accepted as a stabilizing factor. "With
 extensive ethnic cleansing [in Bosnia], only the most insignificant
 remnants of other groups are left in each area," he wrote. Thus, ethnically
 pure areas have been created. "To force these now ethnically homogeneous
 regions into a common entity, guarantees another round of ethnic cleansing.
 Realistically, a separate Muslim entity may be the best achievable
 outcome. It would be a solution most conducive to long-term stability. The
 other ethnic groups should have the same option to join the mother
 countries."

 Lord Owen's most acute concern appeared to be the status of Kosovo and
 Macedonia. He clearly advocated the creation of a pure Albanian area, as a
 NATO policy: "The serious fighting on the Yugoslav and Macedonian borders
 surrounding Kosovo should be a warning to NATO. It is a demonstration that
 the Kosovo Albanians are not prepared to acquiesce in Kosovo remaining
 within Yugoslavia. Also, their militants are linking the Albanian
 communities over the frontiers to their struggle for an independent Kosovo.
 The more the NATO-backed Kosovo Force (KFOR) contingent deployed there is
 seen to be preventing independence, the more likely it is that NATO troops
 will be in the firing line."

 In fact, while Macedonia was engulfed in violence and aggression, "one
 could hear in the background, this continuous eerie refrain of the New
 Berlin Congress," as one insightful Macedonian journalist put it. "It was
 like someone launching trial balloons, one after the other, to check how
 strong was the resistance to the plan. The KLA aggression seemed to supply
 the shock to, somehow, force the people to swallow the hemlock."

 On May 30, the Macedonian daily Vecer came out with a shocking proposal
 from members of the Macedonian Academy of Science: a "land and people
 swapping" between Macedonia and Albania, illustrated by a large map.

 The general reaction was incredulity and outrage. Macedonia's ambassador
 to Bulgaria and former candidate for President, Ljubisha Georgievski,
 denounced the proposal as "absolutely infantile." He told EIR, "It is along
 the lines of the old proverb: 'The way to Hell is paved with good wishes.'
 It is the same political naoveti as transpires from one of those proposals
 by Lord David Owen. It is impossible to change any [national] border in
 all human history, without a war."

 But the following day, the leading daily Nova Makedonija reported that a
 plan presented jointly by Kissinger and Lord Owen had been discussed in the
 United States, and will be implemented in a "New Berlin Congress," in
 Berlin in May 2002. According to the paper, the plan includes carving up
 parts of Macedonia to be given to Albania, and vice-versa. Kosovo would
 become part of Albania, while a small part in the north (the Mitrovica
 area) would go to Serbia. Pieces of Greece and Bulgaria would also be cut
 and pasted, in a complicated map featured on the newspaper's front page.
 Bosnia would be fully divided, and its Republika Srpska go to Serbia.

 The elaboration of the new borders will be discussed, according to Nova
 Makedonija in Warsaw, at a conference organized by the non-governmental
 organization Citizens Alliance for Eastern Europe. The plan was,
 reportedly, presented in Washington last March 28, to a meeting of high
 officials from the White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, and the
 CIA. The unsigned article concluded: No matter what the reaction will be,
 a carving-up Congress will take place, "because the new American strategy
 has decided what the new map of the Balkans should look like."

 Finally on June 5, Lord Owen reiterated the need of a "New 1878 Berlin
 Congress" in an interview with the Berliner Zeitung. The Balkan nations
 "will be consulted," he intoned, but, he insisted: "Something must be done
 in any case to accommodate the Kosovo Albanians' will of independence,"
 otherwise, "the moment will come when the Kosovo Albanians will go after
 NATO, because they will realize that NATO hinders their independence."



 http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2824_kla_macedon.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:14:35 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Fw: a question
Comments: To: Nick_Lansing@CONDENAST.COM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nick,

I forgot to include "Instant Slum Clearance" by June Meyer, Esquire
magazine, April 1965, pages 109-12.

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe S Moore" <joemoore@qwest.net>
To: "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works"
<GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: a question


> Nick,
>
> See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Ha-Hd.htm
> (scroll down to "Harlem")
>
> Joe S Moore
> joemoore@qwest.net
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Nick_Lansing@CONDENAST.COM>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
> To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:35 AM
> Subject: a question
>
>
> > I'm fact checking an article that mentions a housing project conceived
by
> R.
> > Buckminster Fuller in the
> > late 60s for Harlem. Apparently this project resembled nuclear cooling
> towers
> > and was intended to be 100 stories. Has anyone heard of this -- and is
the
> above
> > description accurate?
> > Best regards, N.L.
> > PS: The Buckminster Fuller Institute recommended I contact you.
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:51:55 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      testing: Mayors.doc?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            20-JUN-2001 12:51
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
  OK, I just got a webpage "up,"
 with my latest "flyer" re the Voting Rights Act and
 Bush's keynote speech at the US Mayors Conf. --
 which my Mayor tried like Hell to keep me from announcing,
 last night!

 http://quincy4council.homestead.com/

 tell me if it works; it did, for me!

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:18:13 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Your action needed:stop health care fast-track

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            21-JUN-2001  6:18
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I take it as an irony that one'd use "Nobelist Uncle Milton"
 to excoriate the cartels, after the Chicago Boy's and Sir Henry's use
 of his philosophy to set-up the experimental imposition
 of a Libertarian Theology, with Pinochet as their henchman,
 in Chile; eh?

 thus quoth:
  "New Gospel or Theology" of the market place, which is power and greed.
  Milton Friedman, the Noble Prize winning economist, in his 1962 Book
  CAPITALISM AND FREEDOM stated clearly why we cannot trust corporations
 with
  responsibilities that in reality belong to the people and the individuals
  they elect to public office, our governments:
      "Few trends could so thoroughly undermine the very foundation of our
 free
  society as the acceptance by corporate officials of a social
 responsibility
  other than to make as much money for their stockholders as possible." -

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:01:38 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      New Bucky Web Site
Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Comments: cc: "Siegmund, Mark" <Tetworld@highstream.net>
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A new Bucky-related web site sponsored by the BFI called Spaceship =
Earth:

http://www.spaceshipearth.org/index.html

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A new Bucky-related web site sponsored by the BFI =
called=20
Spaceship Earth:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.spaceshipearth.org/index.html">http://www.spaceshipear=
th.org/index.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Joe S Moore<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@qwest.net">joemoore@qwest.net</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Jun 2001 02:19:37 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Re Health Care Reform

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            22-JUN-2001  2:19
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 interesting.  there was also an interesting op-ed
 in today's LATimes, although I only read the last 2 paragraphs,
 to make sure what the gist was, by Michael Kinsley (Slate (MS));
 somehting like, "Liberalism's a la carte!"

 thus quoth:
  What we saw at the committee were basically two types of grievances. One
  was the person who read in Readers Digest about the newest (surgical)
  method of "curing" their problem and we wouldn't do it. In the free
 market
  world they would have gone doctor shopping until they found someone who
  would do it instead of telling them to stop smoking, control their diet
  and lose some weight.

 --les ducs d'Enrons!
 http://www.tarpley.net

 PS: when I realize how to get *any* thing linked (even
 a file that is actually loaded into the site!),
 you can see it at

 http://quincy4council.homestead.com/index.html
 -- nothing really works, yet.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:57:53 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Octet Truss Flooring
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

By using tensegrity principles, the cost and weight of floors, masts and
beams could be substantially reduced; see:

Tenseg Tet http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TetTensegTrusIntro.htm
Tenseg Tet Truss http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TetTensegTrus.htm
Fuller's Mast http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TetTowerBFMast.htm

Tenseg Octa http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/OctaIrregTensegTruss.htm
Tenseg Octa Truss
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/OctaRegTensegTruss.htm
Double Tenseg Octa Truss
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/OctaIrregTensegTrussDouble.htm
Tenseg Octa Mast
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/OctaRegTensegTower.htm

Tenseg Icosa http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosTenseg.htm
Tenseg Icosa Truss http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosTrus.htm
Tenseg Icosa Mast http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosTower.htm

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 7:36 AM
Subject: Octet Truss Flooring

> Pat Salsbury has posted some renderings of octet truss flooring at:
>
>
http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/Gifs/Graphics/octet-truss-003-v1.png
>
> I see, now, how to revise my drawings of the simple tensegrity house (as
> posted on the DomeGroup.org pictures page) to do away with the large
> horizontal beams and replace them with an octet grid (in other words, use
> the octet grid as both flooring and compression members).
>
> jmr
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 01:07:45 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Andy <andymail@POWERSURFR.COM>
Subject:      unsubscribe
In-Reply-To:  <200106230409.f5N49Di00380@flame.blaze.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Wish this list were not a political rant-site. I thought Bucky's ideas
transcended politics.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:40:51 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Bob Burkhardt <bobwb@CHANNEL1.COM>
Subject:      Re: unsubscribe
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I don't think you've been reading very closely if you think
it's a political rant-site.

Brian seems to be the big political ranter.  I gave up
reading his stuff a long time ago, and I think most of
it amounts to spamming this list.  But he's only a minor part of the
list
even though he seems to take up the most bandwidth.  Brian has
interesting things to say if you have patience to wade through the other
junk which I don't have anymore.

Mark seems to be going off the deep end lately, but at least he's
succinct.

Bob

Andy wrote:

> Wish this list were not a political rant-site. I thought Bucky's ideas
> transcended politics.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 12:41:27 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: unsubscribe Commentary
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> I don't think you've been reading very closely if you think
> it's a political rant-site.

> > Wish this list were not a political rant-site. I thought Bucky's ideas
> > transcended politics.

None the less, it has an effect when in thhe proportions that are the quiesent state of affairs here.  I get "good stuff" from them all, even via the "political" postings, but for me, it IS the elusive needle in that type of post.  To conclude with some humour, Bucky's ideas do transcent politics in a way.  Sort of more than Frank Lloyd Wright, who gave us the cinder-block, gratis.  And somewhat like Einstein, as we live under the "umbrella" of certain of his concepts, brought to, uh, fruition?

Rather than transcend politics, we continue political discourse under their very wings.  If it's fruitful, depends on us.

I liken it to so many garden lists, where folks regurgitate Recipes, while yet having not searched out how to grow the very tomato they stew.  Some are happy with the banter.  I am starting such a tomato list, where it is required that resources and developement of the gardens basics are the agenda, and reference lists whereupon the stew is an acceptable discourse.

Only recently, after ALL the neat URLs, did I find the book, referenced rather offhandedly, which provides me with a far greater ease of understanding to the geodesic and it's evolution and mathematics, (though I have a couple rather thick books immeadiatley relavant to his works,) which will allow me to more easily design a less compromising solarium.

In any event... it is ultimately, the list owners call.
Were I more advanced or had mnoire time and fewer lists, I would no doubt pursue the same "OT" posts with greater ferver, though I still would wish them to speak of "Bucky-world," and merely offer a light reference to how we may incorporate them into our lives, via the political process or whatever.  Some seem to merely be political.  I hate that.  Yet, found some great thyroid info in one, via a lengthy "Bush discourse."  Really helped someone to get that info.  Still, I no doubt missed a lot in the perusal of a glut of basically, "OT" info.

Your choices may be to use the Delete key, Block addies, and miss the occassional nugget, or pan until we die.  LOL!
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 13:12:32 -0400
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Gerardo Garcia <garciacabrero@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: unsubscribe
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

<html><DIV>
<P>Not only flames support living lists.&nbsp; I would not see any trouble if Brian turns catholic or whatever (if it allows him to sing to the pope) but his Enron mantra made me alert about the comprehensive anticipated scientifically designed future that was envisioned for Mexico, after the California´s electricity service models.&nbsp; &nbsp; </P>
<P>Carlos Castaneda tensegrity led me to Fuller´s. Could we say that it was a Castaneda´s integrity legacy (to know that one thing was going to&nbsp;lead to the other)?&nbsp;&nbsp; I think this is a more comprehensive approach, the other one (de Chardin stole Vernadsky, Castaneda stole Fuller, Fuller stole the artist) leads nowhere in my opinion.<BR><BR>Mark led me to Edmonson´s book on Fuller and that helped&nbsp;with my guitar teaching (the gravitational interaction between the guitar strings and the fingers, levers, etc).</P>
<P>I would agree with a feeling of impatience: we in the third world are waiting for the rich pull the poor to the high standards that motion picture industry brings to our door.&nbsp; In the mean time one has to&nbsp;hold on to  "leaks" as Bonnie G. de Varco´s assuming that Fuller had left a "metaphysical artifact" legacy, and extend that leak into theoretics:&nbsp; "similarly as the free software internet based models, the whole universe of goods and services should be immediatly and freely transferable".</P>
<P>Good luck and ephemeral life to the new Fuller web page.</P>
<P>Gerardo García</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Bob Burkhardt <BOBWB@CHANNEL1.COM>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: unsubscribe
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:40:51 -0400
<DIV></DIV>&gt;
<DIV></DIV>&gt;I don't think you've been reading very closely if you think
<DIV></DIV>&gt;it's a political rant-site.
<DIV></DIV>&gt;
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Brian seems to be the big political ranter. I gave up
<DIV></DIV>&gt;reading his stuff a long time ago, and I think most of
<DIV></DIV>&gt;it amounts to spamming this list. But he's only a minor part of the
<DIV></DIV>&gt;list
<DIV></DIV>&gt;even though he seems to take up the most bandwidth. Brian has
<DIV></DIV>&gt;interesting things to say if you have patience to wade through the other
<DIV></DIV>&gt;junk which I don't have anymore.
<DIV></DIV>&gt;
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Mark seems to be going off the deep end lately, but at least he's
<DIV></DIV>&gt;succinct.
<DIV></DIV>&gt;
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Bob
<DIV></DIV>&gt;
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Andy wrote:
<DIV></DIV>&gt;
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Wish this list were not a political rant-site. I thought Bucky's ideas
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; transcended politics.
<DIV></DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:16:43 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Andy <andymail@POWERSURFR.COM>
Subject:      Papa's got a brand new thread!
In-Reply-To:  <200106230409.f5N49Di00380@flame.blaze.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

So, there are interested/ing people listening to this group?
Maybe with a few unanswered questions and a head hungry for comprehending
maybe not so much synegetics but the why and the what of it all in the
context of life on planet Earth and our possibly perilous trajectory?

So can Synergetics really help? When one understands just how embedded
x,y,z math is in any computer platform, it becomes difficult to model the
ideas with any kind of 'honesty' - rational honesty I mean.

Does anyone know of a program that allows the construction of 3D objects
without referencing x,y,z coordinates, but rather
polar/radial/circumferential/chordal? I have Maya and FormZ, but they are
not 'honest'.

And so what if I can build virtual tensegrity models to show my
'block'-headed profs at architecture school. People just look and say, "Aw,
that just looks like a bucky-dome, that's from the seventies, that style is
passe." - "oh - a spaceframe, big deal." Then enter Grimshaw and Foster and
others, everything mega-sized and steel - but at least they don't leak - or
do they?

Is that the way to planetary equilibrium, humans reconciled with nature in
massive steel and aluminum 'eco-projects'?
So I have been looking for some time to small-scale, timber-geodesics,
tents, portable structures, RV's, what-have-you.
Anybody I've ever met that was interested in Fuller has kinda traversed the
same terrain, built a dome or three, made lots of models, got into the
headspace of a Platonic/Alan Watts, regenerative present versus
temporal-linear-evolutionary cosmology.

Yes, so that is at the centre of Synergetics no? How to live simply and
intelligently as nature's agents of intelligence on possibly one of
Universe's greatest gifts to itself, Earth (funny, Gift in German = poison).

So if Bucky was a more 'successful' agent of intelligence for this planet,
how is it that his followers, some of them anyhow, fiddle with
microstructures and domes and tents and integrated waste-food systems,
etc.? Because we want to get it right, for ourselves, for the rest of us,
in light of the onslaught of really mindless but titillating technology?
Cars, roads, Box-architecture with mono-climate, electro-communicating,
wireless, etc. etc.

This question has not lost it's direction, maybe some of it's force, as one
is presented with a dizzying array of 'Answers' touted by 'Experts'.
Some think we will be redeemed by politics finally getting it all right - I
am not holding my breath.
Bucky thought, maybe half-heartedly, that an understanding of Nature
through Synergetics would set us free, but then he went ahead and wrote a
brilliant, however to-most-people-totally-inaccessible tome. It is
brilliant, I have read it very carefully, but obtuse.
Is not a pretty good understanding of Nature held by the Aboriginal people?
Did they need Synergetics for that?

Economy of means, energy, material, bio-integration, compostability and
thermal efficiency are all amply demonstrated in a teepee.
I have built domes and lived in them. The teepee, to my way of thinking is
closer to the mark.

I gotta go now, Pow-wow trail calls, have a good weekend, hope something
comes of this thread.
andy r. thomson
http://www2.blaze.ca/~thomson
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 12:02:25 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      dry wood makes lighter struts
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 When I built this cuboctahedron tensegrity in spring '98 I used freshly =
cut trunks of tulip poplar trees, 13 feet long, 3 inch diameter. They =
weighed about 20 pounds each. I had a lot of trouble getting it to stand =
on 3 ends because the struts were too flexible for their weight -- some =
bowed and needed a second trunk tied to them, or a steel reinforcement. =
But the added weight caused more bowing elsewhere. At best I could get =
it to jiggle properly (at about 2 Hz) by stacking rocks under the only 3 =
struts that were supposed to be on the ground until they were high =
enough that no other strut touched. The 2 roughly vertical struts  to =
the right of the dog and cat (lower left) clear the ground by  6-12", =
and the 3rd vertical on the far right clears by a couple of inches.


=20
Now I've prepared 12 more struts, slightly longer (4 meters) and I'm =
going to build a new tensegrity around the old one. The old one is =
rotting, but I think it is still strong enough to serve as a form =
helping me get the new struts in place more easily than starting flat. I =
shaved the bark off the new struts, trimmed the thick ends, and  LET =
THEM DRY OUT so they only weigh about 10 pounds each, and they're =
stiffer.  Also this time they got a bit of wood preservative and paint. =
I'm using a new sort of hub and smaller (#17) steel wire.

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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D3>&nbsp;When I built this =
cuboctahedron=20
tensegrity in spring '98 I used freshly cut trunks of tulip poplar =
trees, 13=20
feet long, 3 inch diameter. They weighed about 20 pounds each. I had a =
lot of=20
trouble getting it to stand on 3 ends because the struts were too =
flexible for=20
their weight -- some bowed and needed a second trunk tied to them, or a =
steel=20
reinforcement. But the added weight caused more bowing elsewhere. At =
best I=20
could get it to jiggle properly (at about 2 Hz) by stacking rocks under =
the only=20
3 struts that were supposed to be on the ground until they were high =
enough that=20
no other strut touched. The 2 roughly vertical struts&nbsp; to the right =
of the=20
dog and cat (lower left) clear the ground by&nbsp; 6-12", and the 3rd =
vertical=20
on the far right clears by a couple of inches.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><IMG align=3Dbaseline alt=3D"" border=3D0 hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:004e01c0fbfd$e5455dc0$01c8c8c8@com.planetc.com"></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Now I've prepared 12 more struts, =
slightly=20
longer (4 meters) and I'm going to build a new tensegrity around the old =
one.=20
The old one is rotting, but I think it is still strong enough to serve =
as a form=20
helping me get the new struts in place more easily than starting flat. I =
shaved=20
the bark off the new struts, trimmed the thick ends, and&nbsp; LET THEM =
DRY OUT=20
so they only weigh about 10 pounds each, and they're stiffer.&nbsp; Also =
this=20
time they got a bit of wood preservative and paint. I'm using a new sort =
of hub=20
and smaller (#17) steel wire.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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NrqjfXvf/9k=

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Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 03:38:54 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: unsubscribe

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            23-JUN-2001  3:38
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Busky's ideas "transcended politics" -- because
 he *said* so, or because his Aunt Ossoli *was* a Transcendentalist?

 thus quoth:
  Wish this list were not a political rant-site. I thought Bucky's ideas
  transcended politics.

 --les ducs d'Eneon!
 http://www.tarpley.net
 http://quincy4council.homestead.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 15:51:51 -0500
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From:         Tony Kalenak <tkalenak@TEAM-PSC.COM>
Subject:      Re: unsubscribe
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Probably as a result of his transcendentalist roots, he lived and =
preached
transcendence.

        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Brian Hutchings [SMTP:r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US]
        Sent:   Saturday, June 23, 2001 5:39 AM
        To:     GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
        Subject:        Re: unsubscribe

        <<MESSAGE from>> Brian =BFQuincy! Hutchings            23-JUN-2001
3:38
                         r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

         Busky's ideas "transcended politics" -- because
         he *said* so, or because his Aunt Ossoli *was* a Transcendentalist?

         thus quoth:
          Wish this list were not a political rant-site. I thought Bucky's
ideas
          transcended politics.

         --les ducs d'Eneon!
         http://www.tarpley.net
         http://quincy4council.homestead.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 18:27:17 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Hello Joe
Comments: To: jqs@pond.net
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Jacqueline,

See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/DomesArt.htm
(scroll down to "Stained Glass")

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacqueline Scott" <jqs@pond.net>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 11:27 AM
Subject: Hello Joe


> A question -- please, I seem to recall a stained glass ball -- not an
> icosahedron -- but a beautiful work of art perhaps in a museum several
> years ago, that I was trying to find again --
>
> I found many other interesting things in my search via your page this
> Saturday --
>
> So now ask the Master -- do you recall a beautiful photo of a stained
> glass ball perhaps soccer ball size or larger?
>
> Jacqueline
>
> Your page is fantastic -- one could get lost wandering, like my daughter
> ,Wendy, did one time visiting a five acre garden of Mrs. Julia Krafft at
> Rancho Santa Fe, California.  All landscaped.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:02:06 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: unsubscribe
In-Reply-To:  <3B34AA73.5D086B9@channel1.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bob- Said well.

Is Channel One that education-for-profit tv station? I worked for
Edison schools recently. channel one's founder's latest endeavor.
What are you ideas on the school's for profit?

Dick

--- Bob Burkhardt <bobwb@CHANNEL1.COM> wrote:
> I don't think you've been reading very closely if you think
> it's a political rant-site.
>
> Brian seems to be the big political ranter.  I gave up
> reading his stuff a long time ago, and I think most of
> it amounts to spamming this list.  But he's only a minor part of
> the
> list
> even though he seems to take up the most bandwidth.  Brian has
> interesting things to say if you have patience to wade through the
> other
> junk which I don't have anymore.
>
> Mark seems to be going off the deep end lately, but at least he's
> succinct.
>
> Bob
>
> Andy wrote:
>
> > Wish this list were not a political rant-site. I thought Bucky's
> ideas
> > transcended politics.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:20:36 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Papa's got a brand new thread!
In-Reply-To:  <5.1.0.14.0.20010623104836.00a7cec0@mail.powersurfr.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Andy- Tipis are wonderous homes. But for what I see coming, tipis are
not much in the picture.

Dick

> Economy of means, energy, material, bio-integration, compostability
> and
> thermal efficiency are all amply demonstrated in a teepee.
> I have built domes and lived in them. The teepee, to my way of
> thinking is
> closer to the mark.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:33:57 +0100
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From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      teepee
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Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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>From: Andy <andymail@POWERSURFR.COM>
> Economy of means, energy, material, bio-integration, compostability and
> thermal efficiency are all amply demonstrated in a teepee.
> I have built domes and lived in them. The teepee, to my way of thinking is
> closer to the mark.

Isn't it a large part of Fuller's message that we can only improve the lot
of humanity by means of industrialization? How can we all live in teepees?


Paul Taylor

THE FULLER MAP
http://www.nous.org.uk/BFMAP.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Jun 2001 17:47:07 -0400
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From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: teepee
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Isn't it a large part of Fuller's message that we can only improve the lot of humanity by means of industrialization? How can we all live in teepees?
> Paul Taylor

*Mass produce geodesically correct (3 sided) teepees.
:>)
Cluster them in a row like tic-tac homes.
This insulates 2 of the 3 walls.
Makes cheap, as only 1/2 of the normal walls are required.
Now that you mention it, very useful concept.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ row of apts or homes
BillSF9c
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:53:53 +0100
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From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Re: teepee
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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>From: 'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>

> *Mass produce geodesically correct (3 sided) teepees.
> :>)
> Cluster them in a row like tic-tac homes.
> This insulates 2 of the 3 walls.
> Makes cheap, as only 1/2 of the normal walls are required.
> Now that you mention it, very useful concept.
>
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ row of apts or homes

What kind of row would that be? Insulated?


Paul Taylor

THE FULLER MAP
http://www.nous.org.uk/BFMAP.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:51:23 -0400
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From:         'Bill' 'Eagleton' <OOWON@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject:      Re: teepee
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> > *Mass produce geodesically correct (3 sided) teepees.
> > :>)
> > Cluster them in a row like tic-tac homes.
> > This insulates 2 of the 3 walls.
> > Makes cheap, as only 1/2 of the normal walls are required.
> > Now that you mention it, very useful concept.
> >
> > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ row of apts or homes
>
> What kind of row would that be? Insulated?
> Paul T

Well, this is half humour.  After all  a 3 sided (4 sided if a floor is considered,) form metts in a central location.  This produces sloped walls. Sure this has advantages and disadvatages.  It also makes the diagram appear, in 2D, to have shared walls liuke a townhouse.  Insulated?  Maybe for sound, IF VERTICAL walls were used, or false walls which are very effective in apts.  Earthquake-wise these would be strong.  In a 3D configuration, sloped walls are going to remove the shared wall concept.  If the structures were roofed, opened windows again function ok if a rain, which they would not otherwise due to the slope.  Of course other window styles abound.

Ever use/see an old "pup-tent?"  It consists of 2 "shelter halves.  Each solier carries a half.  Thge floor ends up rectangular, room for 2 sleeping bags, plus an end that is a triangle.  This triangle is very useful for storage.  Cabinets are a pain if deep, as it's hard to reach the farest reaches, except in the middle.  Cabinets in a 3D 3 sided pyramid at a rear corner, further insulate (given this may be a free-standing home) and put bulky heavy things low, and less heavy items, smaller, high.  Ya got lemons, make lemonade.  In a tent configuration, (er, aham, tipi/teepee,) an insulating end is useful as well as storage.

Ther original tho' with vertical walls, is almost a bridge tress or geodesic structure section.  /\/\/\/\/ If worked into a hex,
grouping, mini courtyards for lil kids naturally occur, w larger ones for parks.  Community gardens.  Homes/apts become triangle, hex, or parrallelagram shaped.  Low ceilinged garages allow for lofts somewhat.

There are issues with all these; benefits too.  Three sided tents shed wind well.  In a partially curved wall toward the peak, additional rigidity is gained.  Just general ideas, no panaceas, no intense position stated.  Musings of a loose minded ex R&D generalist.  IN our world even bad ideas are tosed out into the fray freely w/o fear of reprisal, as one in 10, someone will put a twist upon, and get some use of it.  Team effort.
Many tho' try to spoil that with ego or positioning.
BillSF9c
__________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 Jun 2001 19:32:16 -0500
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: teepee
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> > I have built domes and lived in them. The teepee, to my way of
> > thinking is
> > closer to the mark.
>
> Isn't it a large part of Fuller's message that we can only improve
> the lot
> of humanity by means of industrialization? How can we all live in
> teepees?

Tipis are just one form of shelter -- just as a double breasted blazer
is one type of coat.

Mass production can make any size or shape house.

A tetrahedron or a half-octahedron would both make suitable "tipi"
shapes, while still remaining rigid.

A radial tent design could make a fabric tipi that would hold
its shape, and serve its owners for >30 years, while still remaining
a "temporary" structure.

Just a few ideas...

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Jun 2001 01:16:50 -0500
Reply-To:     SpaceshipEarth@mail.com
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From:         SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      Buckminster mentioned in Wired energy article
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              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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Does anybody read wired? This rather long article (7 pages online) appeared in the print edition and is online here:

Girding for the Power Grid: The best minds in electricity R&D have a plan: Every node in the power network of the future will be
awake, responsive, adaptive, price-smart, eco-sensitive - and interconnected with everything else.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.07/juice.html

It briefly mentions Buckminster Fuller here:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.07/juice.html?pg=6&topic=&topic_set=

New high-voltage DC applications developed by the institute are also serving to make good interfaces between grids. HVDC bridges
can act as filters, allowing previously incompatible systems to be linked together, and preventing power disturbances on either
side from propagating to the other. Last summer, EPRI opened a link between grids in Texas and Mexico - a small step toward the
global network of energy envisioned by Buckminster Fuller as "the final goal of the World Game."

Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI): http//www.epri.com/

EPRI estimates that, for every 100 South Africans who get electricity, 10 new businesses are created. Still, one out of three
people on earth has no access to electricity.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:53:41 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Slogans etc. for bumperstickers  and envelope labe

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            25-JUN-2001  9:53
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the Viridian list was started by a noted "SF author,"
 Bruce Sterling, and reflects that in his prose,
 at any rate (my slim reading in that area ended in childhood, or
 I might critique'im .-)
    I once sent a critical note of one of his initial manifeestoes,
 and never got a reply.  one of the things I may have asked,
 could now be phrased,
 Did Mr S. fossilize the fuels, himself, or
 did he get Enron to do it (presumably involving some sort
 of retrogrssive "futures" -- or pasts o'time-travel) ??

 thus quoth:
 O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O
 IT'S OFFICIAL: FOSSIL FUELS ARE A TOOL OF SATAN!!!!!!
 O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O

 --les ducs d'Enorn!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:18:06 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Some farm wisdom

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            25-JUN-2001 10:18
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 that was a very nice quote from Harold Breimyer,
 which helps to put into perspective the current assualt
 on the FERC, PHUCA, Glass-Steagall (officially gone,
 as of Dec.'99) and other Depression-era legislation.
    I meant to ask, in my forward re the Viridian list,
 mister Sterling if I missed it in the title
 of his Notes, about his Mayor (or mine,
 at any rate) going to sit at the feet
 of the Faith-based Initiator in Chief, himself,
 already gone-by before lunch, today.
    I have my hypothesis, as it relates
 to my Greeniac Mayor, bringing the federal moochacha
 on home for a certain e-day,
 which you can see at my first-ever website.

 perhaps, in the interim, it will be sponsred by Enron,
 but will be rebranded as a G-day!
    is the "global business network" behind this?...
 they usually are!

 >O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O
 >IT'S OFFICIAL: FOSSIL FUELS ARE A TOOL OF SATAN!!!!!!
 >O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O O=c=O

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:34:43 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Slogans etc. for bumperstickers  and envelope labe

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            25-JUN-2001 10:34
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, I don't know that there's anyway
 to get into a dyscussion around the Viridian list,
 as it is said to be "edited by feudal ogre," but
 I just found something that I'd also found,
 at a "Democrats Wake Up" meeting of the ADA,
 from the Glendale Greens, a flyer for their next meeting:

 in it, a guy is said to talk about how fuelcells
 are a great *source* of hydrogen, when, of course,
 that is the fuel that must be engendered (usually
 bia electolyisis, or however they get it from methane);
 that is, it's just a medium of storage of energy,
 a battery.
    likewise, this weird, sort of mobile perpetuum is promoted
 on the V-list:

 Fuel cells


 Fuel cells produce cleaner and fairly reliable power through the
 electrochemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen. Although theoretically the
 cells could be run from the atmosphere, the leader in the field, Ballard
 Power, and the car companies prefer to drive hydrogen from methanol - which
 would come from petrol.

 The first commercial products are likely to reach the market this year
 with fuel cell-powered cars to come in 2004, but cost remains an issue.

 Microturbines

 http://www.io.com/~stack/viridian/index.html

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:06:39 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Eeeks!!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Spaceship the article that you posted from wired today is excellent!!!! =
Thanks!!!

Unfortunately at the bottom of page 8 there is a link to a short =
description of Fuel cells that implies hydrogen is an explosive just =
waiting to happen.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.07/micropower.html

Ever since the messed up investigation of the "Hindenberg" Graf Zeppelin =
fire people think hydrogen is dangerous. It was the paint job.=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Spaceship the article that you posted =
from wired=20
today is excellent!!!! Thanks!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Unfortunately at the bottom of page 8 =
there is a=20
link to a short description of Fuel cells that implies hydrogen is an =
explosive=20
just waiting to happen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.07/micropower.html">http://w=
ww.wired.com/wired/archive/9.07/micropower.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ever since the messed up investigation =
of the=20
"Hindenberg" Graf Zeppelin fire people think hydrogen is dangerous. It =
was the=20
paint job. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:54:12 -0700
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From:         Andy <andymail@POWERSURFR.COM>
Subject:      Re: GEODESIC Digest - 23 Jun 2001 to 24 Jun 2001 (#2001-166)
In-Reply-To:  <200106250406.f5P46Li83031@flame.blaze.ca>
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>
>Isn't it a large part of Fuller's message that we can only improve the lot
>of humanity by means of industrialization? How can we all live in teepees?
>***************************************************************
For certain, that's what he said - but were he alive today??? What would he
say?
I befriended an old man in Germany who claims to have collaborated with
Bucky, as surely many have.
He was also close friends with the arch-wacky Hundertwasser.
His take on Fuller's ideas, was that Nature is ultimately high-tech, and
that people are ultimately more adaptable (physiologically) than we could
ever dream technology to be.

It is an unpopular idea, that one simplify for the gain of one's
neighbor's. I could never presume that "Tipi's" are for all of us.
Apparently, judging from the state of affairs at present,  and the stock of
housing forms available to us now, they are not.
But from where I stand, and considering several issues at once,
affordability and elegance are advantages evidenced in the tipi form.
I appreciate that some thoughts have turned in the direction of
modular-row-type housing, but immediately fire and safety/blg. code issues
arise. I am trying to dream up something 'do-able' and cheap which falls
outside of the jurisdiction of the conventional zoning and codes.
The question of "where the hell would all these tipi dwellers live then" is
my immediate concern. Anyone who has ever built domes has faced the same
issue. Need one be rich enough to buy land, since we no longer have such a
thing as "The Commons"?
I am presently about to seek collaboration on this issue with some First
Nations bands. I will let you know how it goes.
Christiania in Denmark started with a theatre group, and so could a
national, revisioning of the 'tent-city' approach to housing.

Is it possible and or simpler to motivate those seeking affordable housing
toward market-standard minimals (a la Habitat for Humanity)
Or providing a totally different model, which could be paid for within a
few years.

My idea of the tipi is that it would still function in the 'organic' way
that the old tipi's did; breathing membrane, vent channel for fire draft,
but would bring some aspects of "post-industrial-benefits" to the scenario,
such as wireless internet, catalytic propane heating - or high-efficiency
wood heat/cookstove, composting toilet, rainwater collection and
filtration, solar hot water, PV, etc. etc.

The single mast is a very good idea, as it becomes an even more minimal
version, and the big smoke hole wouldn't be needed given some modern
heating equipment.

Hm. Now I'm thinking again, thanks for the feedback. It helps to think
collaboratively!

a.r.t.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:07:37 -0600
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From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Eeks 2 the plot thickens
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Awhile back I posted a link to an article that was about distributed =
computing. I first found it because my interest in distributed computing =
started when I first got on the net and discovered the nano technology =
web sites. On the most active site I was involved in running a chat =
discussion involving the developments of nano technology applied to =
space science research. Also another ongoing project at the time there =
was distributed computing to harness the web for the awesome =
calculations involved in molecular engineering. I left the enterprise =
because I was scoffed at by the programmers for suggesting a =
distribution program akin to the then fledgling SETI program which =
proved far superior and far more successful. As a side note, the =
molecular modeling concepts are what eventually led me to this =
discussion list serv. To make a long story longer, the above cited =
article also included hints to distributed computing for electrical =
power distribution. I expanded on the concept, unknowledgeable of the =
archived article that spaceship so graciously posted earlier today, to =
include finding lower prices to "buy" and higher prices to "sell" for =
the individual as home producer. To again show how smart I are I will =
predict that in some cases instead of a superconducting cable connection =
in the grid that semiconductor cables will be found more efficient in =
that they will be able to act as capacitors to store power in the system =
and buffer tolerances.=20

Damn! I'm smart.=20

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html





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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Awhile back I posted a link to an =
article that was=20
about distributed computing. I first found it because my interest in =
distributed=20
computing started when I first got on the net and discovered the nano =
technology=20
web sites. On the most active site I was involved in running a chat =
discussion=20
involving the developments of nano technology applied to space science =
research.=20
Also another ongoing project at the time there was distributed computing =
to=20
harness the web for the awesome calculations involved in molecular =
engineering.=20
I left the enterprise because I was scoffed at by the programmers for =
suggesting=20
a distribution program akin to the then fledgling SETI program which =
proved far=20
superior and far more successful. As a side note, the molecular modeling =

concepts are what eventually led me to this discussion list serv. To =
make a long=20
story longer, the above cited article also included hints to distributed =

computing for electrical power distribution. I expanded on the concept,=20
unknowledgeable of the archived article that spaceship so graciously =
posted=20
earlier today, to include finding lower prices to "buy" and higher =
prices to=20
"sell" for the individual as home producer. To again show how smart I =
are I will=20
predict that in some cases instead of a superconducting cable connection =
in the=20
grid that semiconductor cables will be found more efficient in that they =
will be=20
able to act as capacitors to store power in the system and buffer =
tolerances.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Damn! I'm smart. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html">http://www.angelf=
ire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:25:29 -0500
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From:         Charles J Knight <c.knight@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: GEODESIC Digest - 23 Jun 2001 to 24 Jun 2001 (#2001-166)
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> My idea of the tipi is that it would still function in the 'organic'
> way
> that the old tipi's did; breathing membrane, vent channel for fire
> draft,
>
> The single mast is a very good idea, as it becomes an even more

You might do a search http://www.google.com for "architecture
hyperbolic membrane" and see what comes up.  It's becoming
fairly common to build large buildings from fabric membranes,
which could be called super-high-tech tents.  Since tents are
the European equivalent of the American tipi, this might be a
good model for you.

Check out, especially, the construct referred to as "radial tent"
and tell us what you think.  These are *my* favorite minimal
surface buildings, even over geodesics.

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:23:22 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Fw: kit for sale
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Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 8:52 AM
Subject: kit for sale


> From: Dariasue Wells <dempugs@fisi.net>
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:56:24 -0600
>
> Health forces sale of 45' American Ingenuity Dome kit.  Most reasonably
> priced (read as save a bundle), located in Northwest NM, shipping not
> included.  Kit includes 5 skylights, 5 high profile entryways, 2 sets of
> floor plans (both 3 bedroom, 2 bath),  building manual and supplies.
> Also avail, if anyone is nearby or relocating is 1.92 acres, mesa top,
> views of New Mexico, Arizona, Utah and Colorado.  Area is high desert with
> views of Shiprock, Angel Peak, the La Plata Mountains, and overlooks the
> night lights of Farmington below.  Land has road frontage on two sides,
> unbuildable ravine on 3rd side avail for livestock, all utilities except
> septic included.  Neighbors mostly have southwestern homes of 2000 to 5000
> sq ft., no close neighbors, horses allowed, outside city
> limits.  Restrictions are no commercial, industrial, homes must be site
> built and a minimum of 2000 sq ft, domes welcome.  Great state of the arts
> Schools in tight multi-cultural community (Anglo, Castillian Spanish,
> Mexican, Navajo, Ute, Ranchers, Bikers, Sportsmen and Professionals all
> intermix here).  Oilfield, gas, coal, power plant, sales and medical jobs
> available nearby.  Small town feeling in a town of 35,000 weekdays,
150,000
> weekends.  Home Depot nearby (lol).  REC (owner financed, Real Estate
> Contract) avail on land, deep discount on land and kit together.  Skiing
> 1/2 hr away in Durango, Co, lots of jeep & bike trails, geological wonders
> everywhere, Navajo Lake 30 mins away, Mesa Verde, Chaco Canyon and the
> Tommy Bollac Ranch archaeological sites all nearby.  Outdoorsy laid back
> western lifestyle included at no extra cost.  Please contact me privately
> if you are interested, as I am unable to keep up with the list.
> Take Care All
> Daria
> dempugs@fisi.net
>
>
>
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
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>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:20:47 -0700
Reply-To:     Joe S Moore <joemoore@qwest.net>
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@QWEST.NET>
Organization: [Retired]
Subject:      Re: Fw: a question -- thank you
Comments: To: Nick_Lansing@condenast.com
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Nick,

According to _The Artifacts of R. Buckminster Fuller, Volume 4_, page 61,
"...Fuller's dwellings would have been one hundred stories each and housed
an average of seventy-five families per floor."

Joe S Moore
joemoore@qwest.net
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute

----- Original Message -----
From: <Nick_Lansing@condenast.com>
To: <joemoore@qwest.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: a question -- thank you
>
> Dear Joe Moore: Thanks very much for your help. Haven't had time yet to
check
> out the book at the NY Public Library. As an expert, does 100 stories
sound
> accurate to you for the Harlem project?
>
> Best regards,
> Nick Lansing
> 212.286.7554
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:57:37 -0400
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From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <gt7922b@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      NYC dome written up in FEED Mag online
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A short snippet of Bucky's proposal to cover midtown Manhattan with a dome
is available online here.

http://www.feedmag.com/streetlevel/ny2feat.html

Brent Verrill
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:06:01 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Granny D and Elijah.  Inspiration for activists an

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            27-JUN-2001 10:06
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

  To: geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.com

   [note to my other list: sorry, again !-]
   (note yo the Quaker list:
   Bucky said that he was a political, over & over, again .-)

   I only scanned the article, and it was certainly literate
   in that biblical manner, and well-said.  my quibble is with rhetoric
   of "Granny D," which is undercut by her adulation
   of Teddy Roosevelt (or, I should equivocate, Teddy Bear's *version*,
   _The Rough Rider_).  this republic has never been "a democracy," and
   those who pretend this should be censured.  for those
   who do it merely out of grade-school learnin' from a Fabian (or
   Tory) textbook, they should be cajoled to read the Declaration
   of Independence and Lincoln's debate with Douglass,
   about the Constitutional provision for the aboloition of slavery
   (Copyr. 1787 by Po'Richard et al .-)

   thus quoth:
     I decided to go on the road to talk to people about our democracy, and
   what

   http://grannyd.com

   --les ducs d'Enron!
   http://www.arpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:07:17 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Quaker-P] Slogans etc. for bumperstickers  and envelope lab

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            27-JUN-2001 10:07
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

   well, tee-hee.  so,
   do you believe that I'm Dick Cheney's secret lover, or
   some thing?

   thus quoth:
    MESSAGE   from =bruces@well.com                   27-JUN-20  5:52
    >
    > <<MESSAGE from>> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings            25-JUN-2001
 10:35
    >                r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
    >
    > well, I don't know that there's anyway
    > to get into a dyscussion around the Viridian list,
    > as it is said to be "edited by feudal ogre,"

    *Exactly.

    Pope

   --les ducs d'Enron!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:08:28 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      site internal crash?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            27-JUN-2001 11:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 myteriously, as they say,
 the button to link to my USMayorsConf. file didn't work,
 so I installed a new one~

 http://quincy4council.homestead.com/

 http://www.homestead.com/quincy4council/files/Mayors.doc

 --les ducs d'Enron!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:44:36 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Energy Web in WIRED
In-Reply-To:  <20010619184423.14678.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
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   Last summer, EPRI opened a link between grids in Texas and
   Mexico -- a small step toward the global network of energy
   envisioned by Buckminster Fuller as "the final goal of the
   World Game."

             -- WIRED magazine, July 2001, pg. 124 in article
                'The Energy Web' by Steve Silberman (cover story)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:50:52 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Pictures from Bucky play in Seattle
Comments: cc: synergeo@yahoo.groups.com
In-Reply-To:  <20010619184423.14678.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
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Here are some pictures I took, opening night of the
Bucky play in Seattle, June 13:

http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/seattle.html

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:13:52 -0700
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From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      deficit
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I need a little help. What is the relationship between the angular
deficit (the removed pie slice) of a circle that is made into a cone,
and the angle at the vertex of that cone.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:52:11 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      oops

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings            29-JUN-2001  8:52
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 please, see my explanation of the Alien Button Crash Incident;
 Roswell is so passe!

 http://quincy4council.homestead.com

 --les ducs d'Enron
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:41:13 -0700
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Image searching:  geodesic domes
In-Reply-To:  <20010619184423.14678.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
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For an excellent web-based experience, go to Google's
beta image searcher and enter "Geodesic Domes"

http://images.google.com/images

Kirby