From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Oct 26 11:45:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g9QFjvWa005479 for ; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:45:57 -0400 Message-Id: <200210261545.g9QFjvWa005479@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 15944 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2002 15:45:57 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (listserv@128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 26 Oct 2002 15:45:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:45:47 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0110" To: Chris Fearnley Status: O Content-Length: 280039 Lines: 6971 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:00:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. 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Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. Other lists that focuses more specifically on some of these topics can be found on the Reality Sculptors Website: http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC A web page to signon is available here: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/user/sub.html When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. 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Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 10:22:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: oops <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 01-OCT-2001 10:22 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us sorry, if my site doesn't work, much. I wonder, if this is the "problems" that happen, if one changes one's URL and keeps thet old one, to forward? http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 04:10:50 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: marksomers Subject: Alfalfa pet in country MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi guys abcnews.com really does suck the big one, mine is a big one but = I'm not bragging. Not now since nothing but guys hang out on this = thread. Sad butt true. OK so abc wont let me post anymore. You all know the game just like the = last war ....... ( Daddys war ) the pentagon has lots of control over = the media butt they don't control small list servs like this one ....=20 Amen brothers .......... Say AMEN brothers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ..... = All the food that is needed is present!!!!!!!!!!!!! all the livingry = needed is present!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All life is available .... The solution = is in the pollution ... brain pollution too ........=20 Brother can you spare a dime????? Yes brother and sisters say Allah!!!!!!!!! errrrrrr Amen!!!!! Any NSA guys out there in snoopy land FBI ? Echelon???? = barfalon???????? All the parts of the puzzle are present assholes .... = See above concerning Livingry ..... See Bucky concerning Livingry For your information Afghanistan is a lot like the area around the US = southwestern dessert ..... Tucson, Las Vegas, Phoenix ( The seven cities = of gold ) Say Amen brothers of Bucky !!!!!!!!!!!!! say AMEN!!!!! ... I = used to hunt in the desserts before I knew they had an "Oro"fficial name = like the Sonoran desert ... there as a kid... I can hunt humans too. I = can hunt the hunters too sweety .... smoooch .... Say Amen!!!! = brothers.=20 Nick Danger third eye lives!!!! Now for this important announcement .....=20 Allah sucks almost as good as ABCnews.com ..... but he scraps his teeth = eEEEWWWWWWWWWWW Mark=20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 07:50:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: models MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've put 5 more model pictures on the msn Bucky site. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=5 Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 00:41:56 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: raserat2001@YAHOO.COM Subject: Free Website To all Who Take action!! Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would YOU like #10,000/month for life? For a limited period we're offering the opportunity of a lifetime. Make "tens of #1000's" without selling, experience, administration, stock, investment or having to answer the phone EVER again. Take advantage, get involved with the $35 billion dollar a year adult XXX industry by taking one of our FREE FREE FREE adult web site businesses and we'll make sure you earn a lot of money. <<<>>> "No experience required" Our Guarantee: 'We'll give you a adult web site, show you how to promote it and 'IF' YOU don't start earning over #10,000 EACH month within six (with our help), we'll give YOU the business for FREE'. When you start to earn over #10,000 a month, you pay #1950.00 once off for the business. "We already know that you'll reach the #10,000's target income quickly" That's why we don't ask you to part with your money until you've tasted success. You don't have to spend a penny to advertise. We'll show and teach you how to promote it in each of the 4,500 FREE places on the Internet to give you 70,000 to 100,000 customers each month. You don't need any experience. We'll give you the site, show you the way and pay you an excellent income. If you haven't got a PC or experience we will help you promote your business. With our help, you can't fail. You can operate anonymously, even your wife/husband doesn't have to know where the extra money's coming from. We pay YOU monthly. We have turned this 'usually expensive to buy business' into a FREE to start and EASY to operate package with the entire promotional backup needed to succeed. We'll teach you everything there is to know, plus guarantee that you earn over #10,000 a month before we ask you for payment. Its a NO RISK proven business supported by a 'long term sustainable business plan' that will take you on a roller-coaster ride to SUCCESS. DON'T MISS THIS - APPLY NOW For full details e-mail me: < raserat2001@yahoo.com > Limited Offer Domain name required to use with the FREE site. ---------------------------------------------- For further details reply with 'MORE DETAILS' in the subject line. "If you want to be removed from my email database please reply with 'REMOVE' in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 07:09:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nice interactive site on surfaces. Non-geodesic. What is a Enneper Surface anyway? http://www-sfb288.math.tu-berlin.de/vgp/content/surfaces/PaSurface.html Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 20:25:51 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Foerd Ames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Buckminster Fuller Institute suggested that I inquire, from this forum, = whether anyone has or knows where I could get one of the three foot, = plexiglass, Levi Strauss editions of the Dymaxion globe. I saw one on = display at my old school (RBF's alma mater) and had to rip myself away = from the urge to take it! I really need one so that I may further detail = a world deployment plan of a modular, tetrahedral Ocean Wave Energy = Converter (OWEC). OWEC modules conjoin in octet truss space frame array = and are neutrally buoyant so that many modules can form an OWEB (Ocean = Wave Energy Web). A two-dimensional layout is shown on the OWEC Map page = of my web site at www.owec.com. Also, if one clicks on the R. = Buckminster Fuller name, it links to a letter he wrote me about the = orientation of his icosahedral grid... Anyway, the Levi Strauss edition = would be fantastic for the purpose and I am pleading for someone to give = or sell one to me. Unfortunately, Ocean Wave Energy Company is presently = extremely small and underfunded but, perhaps, we could make some sort of = payment arrangement.=20 I'm very happy to have finally found this group and I hope to join in = the discussion. Please feel free to email me with any questions or = observations about this inquiry. Sincerely, Foerd Ames Ocean Wave Energy Company 20 Burnside Street Bristol, RI 02809 USA email: foerd@owec.com web site: www.owec.com voice and fax: 401-253-4488 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:55:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: models <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 03-OCT-2001 13:55 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us SUBJECT: Re: geodesic (sur le subjet de Curvateur) MESSAGE from ="List 25-SEP-20 6:22 <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 25-SEP-2001 6:09 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us getting back to "iff you can prove this," it's a simple matter to look the proof "up" in an elementry text. in otherwise trying to show that a trigon "has" 180 degrees (pi) in its angles, one quickly recalls that the proof of Descartes, actually uses the "exterior" angles or supplements to these interior angles -- which are readily seen by extending the edges of the trigon, indefinitely (or no further than the edge of the paper .-) much of the "necessity" of the construction is *in* the construction, as well as in the underlaying curvature: we're using a flattened surface, herein. as in geodesy, the "180-degreeness" can provide a measure of the flatness of the manifold, as far as the precision of the instruments allow it. in any case, Descartes' proof (as with the Gauss-Binet proof for "solids") shows a close relation between rotation and curvature; see?... to put it another way, try to prove the "parallel axiom" of "euclidean" (planar) geometry! --Dos Equis: Why'd Scty.Stimson Nuke Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, Two? > > http://quincy4council.homestead.com/bin.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:56:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: models <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 03-OCT-2001 13:56 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >Dick-san, these models fail to answer any of my questions. > recall that you adopted some thing that I pointed-out, >apparently without noticing that you did. anyway, >one can see "by inspection" of these photos, that >they are in no way "simply curved" or conical; get it? > >http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=5 > >--Prenatal Advisory! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:57:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 03-OCT-2001 13:57 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >>Dick-san, these models fail to answer any of my questions. >> recall that you adopted some thing that I pointed-out, >>apparently without noticing that you did. anyway, >>one can see "by inspection" of these photos, that >>they are in no way "simply curved" or conical; get it? >> >>http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=5 >> >>--Prenatal Advisory! >>>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 08:33:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This looks familiar although I am not sure what it is. http://www.msri.org/publications/sgp/jim/geom/level/library/kumer/mainc.html Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:12:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is this a smooth surface? http://www.math.uni-hamburg.de/home/riemenschneider/barth.html Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:41:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] I Pledge Resistance <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 04-OCT-2001 13:41 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us the flag does not "stand for injustice;" it merely waves toward it. seriously, when i go to meetings of (like) the Intl. Socialist Party (?), I am generally the only one, who'd know to bother to differentiate amongst US administrations: those that were imperialist, and those that were simply not -- or, at the least, striving not to be. this is why it's such an up-hill battle, as it were, to counter the rhetoric of a Zinn or a Chomsky (e.g.); it's a lot like the "many universe" theory, in the sense that it is completely true, a la the Solopsists! thus quoth: I pledge resistance to the flag of the USA and to the injustice for which it stands; The nonviolent will God is inseperable from liberty and justice for all. --Parental Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:50:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Philadelphia YM threshing session/ strange sugges <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 04-OCT-2001 13:50 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I get tired of it, but it is to be expected from a few rather broad swaths of folks (who know, who they are, and I shall not label .-) I recommend the top-of-the-page articles, "Osama bin London" and the one about the HSC, on http://www.larouchepub.net -- before it is shut-down for "sedition," and the publishers jailed, again, by a Bushwhacker. thus quoth: Anybody else tired of constant negative comments against our country. William R. Martin >--Parental Advisory! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:58:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 04-OCT-2001 13:58 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us one is 6-D ("complex 3D space"), the "Barth sextic," and the other is a 4-degree surface that you may've seen in the logos for SUSE Linux (it's "real" .-) so, it's hard to say what the first is really like, as it's only the "real part," and the link to the author was kaput. http://www.math.uni-hamburg.de/home/riemenschneider/barth.html The picture is showing (the real points of a part of) the Barth-sextic, an algebraic surface in complex three-dimensional projective space with 65 double points, given by the equation: 4(t^2 x^2 - y^2)(t^2 y^2 - z^2)(t^2 z^2 - x^2) - (1+2t)(x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - 1)^2 = 0 , t = 0.5*(1 + sqrt(5)) http://www.msri.org/publications/sgp/jim/geom/level/library/kumer/mainc.ht ml This is an image of the Kummer Surface, which is defined as the zero set of the variable v in the following formula: mu = 1.3 lambda = (3.0*mu^2 - 1.0)/(3.0 - mu^2) w2 = sqrt(2) p = 1.0 - z - w2*x q = 1.0 - z + w2*x r = 1.0 + z + w2*y s = 1.0 + z - w2*y v = (x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - mu^2)^2.0 - lambda*p*q*r*s --Parental Advisory! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:09:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Is Climate Change forgotten? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 04-OCT-2001 14:09 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us as always in these mainstream accounts, there lies the circa 1896 assumption of "overall" or global warming -- even thought this article only deals with the trpoical temps, and the transport of energy therefrom. the caveat about "fudging" the models to conform to the telemetry is well-taken, although many of the data-sets are routinely *ignored* by the UN-IPCC et al. (I've been studying climate change since the mid-80s, as an amateur, based upon a conceptual model, not a computerized simulacrum. the modelers are only just now beginning to grapple with mesoscale eddies in the air and water, and still a long way from grappling with the glass house gas numero uno, water vapor, and it's fluffy white form! thus quoth: A new understanding of ocean-heat transfer Shells of microscopic animals fine tune global warming data. By Robert C. Cowen http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1004/p18s2-stss.html --Parental Advisory! >>>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:16:01 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Fw: Monterey Domes Cupola assembly manual. Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Hewitt" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 6:52 PM Subject: Monterey Domes Cupola assembly manual. > Yes, > Monterey...seems like only yesterday... > Say is there anyone or does anyone know a Monterey owner that installed a > cupola during the assembly. I need a copy of an assembly manual/prints.I > plan on adding a cupola to my Alpine 45' & the manual will certainly make > the task easier. > JD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:52:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110042058.f94KwMi05299@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You are obviously WAY beyond my math ability. I think the thing that you are missing in the relevance of the hubdome is that the vertexes can be located randomly. I do not care one tiny bit if the edges are creased or not. If they must be sharply creased, than so be it. If the faces are flat and not rounded, that is fine. This does not matter to me. Dick --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin > 04-OCT-2001 13:58 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > one is 6-D ("complex 3D space"), the "Barth sextic," and > the other is a 4-degree surface that you may've seen > in the logos for SUSE Linux (it's "real" .-) > so, it's hard to say what the first is really like, > as > it's only the "real part," and > the link to the author was kaput. > > > http://www.math.uni-hamburg.de/home/riemenschneider/barth.html > > The picture is showing (the real points of a part of) > the Barth-sextic, an > algebraic surface in complex three-dimensional > projective space with 65 > double points, given by the equation: > 4(t^2 x^2 - y^2)(t^2 y^2 - z^2)(t^2 z^2 - x^2) - > (1+2t)(x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - > 1)^2 = 0 , t = 0.5*(1 + sqrt(5)) > > > http://www.msri.org/publications/sgp/jim/geom/level/library/kumer/mainc.ht > ml > This is an image of the Kummer Surface, which is defined > as the zero set > of the variable v in the following formula: > > mu = 1.3 > lambda = (3.0*mu^2 - 1.0)/(3.0 - mu^2) > > w2 = sqrt(2) > p = 1.0 - z - w2*x > q = 1.0 - z + w2*x > r = 1.0 + z + w2*y > s = 1.0 + z - w2*y > > v = (x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - mu^2)^2.0 - lambda*p*q*r*s > > --Parental Advisory! > >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 06:11:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Terrorist Strategy <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 06-OCT-2001 6:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us just yesterday (Oct.5), the L.A.Times sited some of Uncle bin's *fatwas*, completely uncritically as to their provenence, from the pass'd; that seemed rather absurd, considering the degree of "anthropological" tact taht was shown in this front-page article (or another one). as a matter of opinion, betginning with the rather implosive AP piece on "100 Colorado glaciers neuveau," much of Friday's Times was a belle-weather issue. at the least, traditional "Eskimoes" will like it, if there are any of'em left. speaking of which, tomorrow is "Beyond Colombus Day," which I'd mistaquenly placed *after* Monday, as "Tribal Tuesday!" --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 06:17:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Terrorist Strategy <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 06-OCT-2001 6:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us as you say, Kimosabe; out of the 178 nations (incl. countries that are "Members of What Used to Be Known as The Empire"), how many OPECartel ones signed the Kyoto Protocol and the emmissions-trading scheme? thus quoth: It's not about religion at all. It's about economics and oil --les ducs d'Enron! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 06:34:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 06-OCT-2001 6:34 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ah, now you are "throwing your hands up" -- and doing the Hokey-Pokey?... I was just clipping from those pages, and know enough to see the 6-degreeness in the formula for a "sextic" surface; that's about "it." with this concession, you have doven off the deep end of your mystaque; congratulation! now, what on Earth are you trying to make, since citing "randomeness" is a lot like praying to Chaos (Mother of Chronos) !?! thus quoth: I think the thing that you are missing in the relevance of the hubdome is that the vertexes can be located randomly. I do not care one tiny bit if the edges are creased or not. If they must be sharply creased, than so be it. If the faces are flat and not rounded, that is fine. This does not --les ducs d'Enron! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 06:47:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] I Pledge Resistance <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 06-OCT-2001 6:47 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, that's an interesting thesis about USA administrating (see "The End of History" chapter in the Bush bio., for the sake of comparison to your ideal ... so, Zbibgy Brsezinski was your favorite Mad Chessmaster-cum-NSAdvizer ?-) thus quoth: Brian, you're speaking english. I can understand you. This is great. By the way, the reason you're the only one to differentiate between those administrations is that it's immaterial. Carter might have been trying, and I think he was your best president from what I know, but even he signed the authorization to start the disinformation campaign against Nicaragua. In the long run, presidential administrations are only as anti-imperialistic as their controllers allow them to be. those EFL classes really do help! thus quoth: Noam can make mistakes, but I generally regard him as a wonderful source of truth. I'm reading his "Perspectives on Power" now, and taking my time about it, because it requires a lot of thought. Where do you think he's wrong? pretty-much, you can lay it all out in the notion that he's in the cage of "Fabian socialism" -- see their mag-of-record, *The New Statesman*, with its rabid anti-US jocularity and its "neoliberal" mind-douche (ah !-) --les ducs d'Enron! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 13:28:35 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: abu_chaka_7@YAHOO.COM Subject: CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FROM:DR.ABU CHAKA. SATELLITE TEL.871-761-8888-31. SATELLITE FAX.871-761-8888-32. Email:abu_chaka_7@yahoo.com ATTN:PRESIDENT/CEO. STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL. RE:TRANSFER OF U$21,500.000{TWENTY ONE MILLION FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS ONLY. I AM A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION(NNPC) SOMETIME AGO, A CONTRACT WAS AWARDED TO A FOREIGN FIRM IN THE PTF BY MY COMMITTEE. THIS CONTRACT WAS OVER INVOICED TO THE TUNE OF US$21.5M US DOLLARS. THIS WAS DONE DELIBRATELY. THE OVER- INVOICING WAS A DEAL BY MY COMMITTEE TO BENEFIT FROM THE PROJECT. WE NOW WANT TO TRANSFER THIS MONEY WHICH IS IN A SUSPENSE ACCOUNT WITH PTF INTO ANY OVERSEA ACCOUNT WHICH WE EXPECT YOU TO PROVIDE FOR US. SHARE: 60% WILL BE FOR MY PARTNERS AND ME. 30% OF THE MONEY WILL BE YOURS FOR PROVIDING THE ACCOUNT WHERE WE SHALL REMIT THE MONEY. 10% HAS BEEN MAPPED OUT FROM THE TOTAL SUM TO COVER ANY EXPENSES THAT MAY BE INCURRED BY US DURING THE COURSE OF THIS TRANSFER, BOTH LOCAL AND INTERNATIONAL EXPENSES. IT MAY INTEREST YOU TO KNOW THAT SIMILAR TRANSACTION WAS CARRIED OUT WITH ONE MR. PATRICE MILLER, PRESIDENT OF CRANE INTERNATIONAL TRADING CORP. OF 153 EAST 57TH ST; 28TH FLOOR, NY10022, TELEPHONE: 212-3087788 AND TELEX:6731689. THE DEAL WAS CONCLUDED AND ALL COVERING DOCUMENTS WERE FOWARDED TO MR. MILLER TO AUTHENTICATE THE CLAIM. ONCE THE FUNDS WERE TRANSFERRED, MR. MILLER PRESENTED HIS BANK WITH ALL THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS AND REMITTED THE WHOLE FUNDS TO ANOTHER BANK ACCOUNT AND DISAPPEARED COMPLETELY. MY COLLEAGUES WERE SHATTERED, SINCE SUCH OPPORTUNITIES ARE NOT EASY TO COME BY. AT THIS JUNCTURE, I WOULD LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN ASSISTING US IN THIS DEAL, WE WOULD REQUIRE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION FROM YOU, WHICH WOULD ENABLE US MAKE FORMAL APPLICATION TO THE VARIOUS MINISTRIES\PARASTATAL FOR THE RELEASE AND ONWARD TRANSFER OF THE MONEY TO YOUR ACCOUNT. THE INFORMATION WE REQUIRE ARE: YOUR NAME, COMPANY`S NAME, ADDRESS , TELEFAX NUMBER. YOUR BANK NAME ,ADDRESS, TELEFAX NUMBER. YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER AND BENEFICIARY NAME. WE HAVE STRONG RELIABLE CONNECTIONS AT THE CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA AND OTHER GOVERNMENT PARASTATALS TO ASSIST US IN THE DEAL, AND WHEN IT IS FINALLY CONCLUDED WE SHALL USE SAME CONTACTS TO WITHDRAW ALL DOCUMENTS USED TO AVOID ANY TRACE TO YOU OR US. IT MIGHT ALSO INTEREST YOU TO KNOW THAT WE ARE ORDINARY CIVIL SERVANTS WHO DO NOT WANT TO MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY, SINCE WE WANT THIS MONEY TRANSFERRED BEFORE THE NEWLY DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT STARTS PROBING THE ACTIVITIES OF ALL PREVIOUS MILITARY GOVERNMENTS. PLEASE CONTACT ME THROUGH MY ABOVE TEL\FAX NUMBER WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE INTRESTED IN THIS DEAL. IF YOU ARE NOT IT WILL ENABLE ME SCOUT FOR ANOTHER FOREIGN PARTNER TO ASSIST US. BUT IF YOU ARE INTRESTED PLEASE SEND THE REQUIRED INFORMATION IMMEDIATELY SO THAT WE CAN SWING INTO ACTION, SINCE TIME IS NOT ON OUR PART. I WAIT IN ANTICIPATION OF YOUR FULLEST CO-COPERATION. YOURS FAITHFULLY, DR.ABU CHAKA. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 21:22:41 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you guys do know that these are flat - out scams, right? Since it apeared in "Soldier of Fortune's" most recent issue; well explained, I suppose that article makes them a sort of "hero", tho' I Bob Brown (owner/editor) either needs to be educated about how easily wars are teed up like so many golf balls 'fore th' green. They deserve 1 upside the head for blithely reporting on the Ethiopia/Eritrea war where U.S. "Monopoley" tax money taken via (the threat of the potential of) armed enforced agents (if you fail to pay) to the count of $500,000,000 a piece. These funds were promptly spent on arms Worth buyin' a copy if you don't know and passin' the info or mag around, probably on the net somewhere. DO NOT DO NOT BELIEVE !!!!!! Mark Stehly P.S. With this American tax money, the "spirit of detente" was maintained via the 1/2 spent in favor of Russian arms dealers, and European dealers palyed both sides of the pond for the other half. Follow that trail. skolnick.com , I'll put you in direct contact with Mara Leveritt(reporter) or either of the 2 mothers for your Mena questions. I can run out of Vegas on a lottery ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:02:50 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: starplate hubs Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg, See Stromberg under Domes/Manufacturers/S/ : http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/DomeManuf-S.htm ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 8:53 AM Subject: re: starplate hubs > From: GregJ888@aol.com > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:54:15 EDT > > Can you post the contact information for the company > making/supplying the Star Plates. I seem to have > deleted that message. > > Thanks > > Greg Jones > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:05:10 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Fw: Save the Dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 9:01 AM Subject: Save the Dome > From: Paul Zarkovich > Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:07:31 -0700 (PDT) > > I just thought I'd let ya'll know that there is a National > Rally October the 14th for saving the Dome in OKC. > > www.savethedome.net > > HELP! > > This is a 165' Kaiser Dome - One of Bucky's great ones and > the one in Oklahoma City is on the chopping block. > > I think the Dome People on this list might support an > effort to save something like this. > > Check it out, Please > > ...This is just one of Bucky's Masterpieces going the way > of the Wrecking Ball. > > www.savethedome.net > ===== > "Happiness is a sensation you get when you are too busy to be miserable." > > Paul Zarkovich > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to > DOME at http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 07:54:36 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: help! Comments: To: Robert W Burkhardt , karenserafin@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Karen, Unfortunately, _An Introduction to Tensegrity_ by Anthony Pugh does not seem to be available in any used book store on the Internet at this time; I just checked. However, you may want to take a look at some of the web sites I list in my Master Index (scroll down to "Tensegrity": http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Tem-Tetq.htm Also, take a look at the following two pages: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeTensegRigid.htm (pencils & rubberbands) http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/IcosDomeTenseg.htm Keep in mind that tensegrity is just 3-way basket weaving; see: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3WayVs2Way.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3wayBall.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TriWeave3wayBasket1.htm Hope this helps, Joe ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert W Burkhardt" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 7:37 AM Subject: Re: help! > Hi Karen, > > If you can lay your hands on it, Anthony Pugh's book, An Introduction to > Tensegrity, has pretty good instructions. And the Buckminster > Fuller Institute (http://www.bfi.org) may be selling a pamphlet with > instructions. > I'll cc this to Joe Moore who may be able to provide more leads. > > The tensegrity tetrahelix sounds like an interesting idea. > > Bob > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Karen Serafin > writes: > > > > Hello- > > > > I am desperately trying to make a tetrahedron tensegrity model > > (eventually a tetrahelix) but am having great difficulty in figuring > > out where the connections are to be made. I am using fishing line > > and have found some web instructions with using rubber bands. Would > > you have any sets of instructions using fishing line or any advice > > to me? Anything you could tell me would be greatly appreciated! > > Thank you- > > > > Karen Serafin > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 08:35:45 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Starplate Address Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new address for Stromberg's StarPlate page is: http://www.strombergschickens.com/products/aviary_supply.htm#framework =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:58:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: funsho Subject: Funds Comments: To: "listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain FUNDS TRANSFER. Compliments of the day to you. I wish to extend this mutual business proposal to you with the hope that you will accept. I am the principal auditor of Department of Petroleum Resources. In the course of discharging my duty last year, I discovered an over invoiced contract payment due for payment to a foreign contractor. I am writing you to seek your assistance and collaboration to enable me use my position in Government to secure the approval for the payment of this over invoiced contract claim to your bank account. This particular contract was awarded to a Foreign Contractor and was over estimated to the tune of US$36,561,000.00 (Thirty Six Million, Five Hundred and Sixty one Thousand US Dollars Only). The foreign Contractor has received full payment for the actual contract value, leaving behind the sum of US$36,561,000.00 which represents the over estimated contract valuE Currently lying at the Central Bank of Nigeria. The over estimated value of $36,561,000.00 was meant to be a Kick Back to the Government officials that awarded the contract. These Government officials have been removed from office and they had no chance of collecting the money before leaving office. As a result of updated payment advise at the Central Bank, it has been awaiting transfer to a Foreign Account. Having done all the necessary groundwork, this money is now in our possession and I am looking for a trustworthy person into whose private or company's account this money would be transferred. Upon the transfer of this money, 70% of the sum will be for me, 25% shall be for you the account owner, while the remaining 5% shall be set aside to refund expenses made in the course of this transaction. Be assured that this business is safe but the keyword is the confidentiality, due to the nature of the transaction and my position in the ministry. Kindly treat as urgent. Yours faithfully, Funsho Adams _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:33:31 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Funds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder this IS completely bogus, if you guys hav not heard of this yet. There's probably word of it on the net. Read a copy of the latest Soldier of Fortune for a good job of coverign this scam and others like it eminating from Africa (primarily) SOF comes up with some usefull info. They need to Bushwhack a lot more. Either they were ignorant of all the Bush/Clinton/Bush stuff ...maybe not. Regardless, if yuse need info on this; that particular article was well done. DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER THIS AS TRUE SCAM SCAM< SCAM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:18:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Funds <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 08-OCT-2001 11:18 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us dude, I got two of those, and they were quite absurd!... you're the *editor* of SoL? in the first of your "warnings," you said that you'd a reporter with stuff "on the airport at Mena," as it's usaully put. well, first of all, do you have any idea what *kind* of airport this is? in the 2nd warning, you implied that Clinton had something to do with it, if only by recalling the first warning. well, "the airport at Mena, Ark." has more crappola thrown about it then other two federal facilities, combined, with the *possible* exception of Area 51 and the Atomic Bomber Squadron at Roswell. thus quoth: SOF comes up with some usefull info. They need to Bushwhack a lot more. Either they were ignorant of all the Bush/Clinton/Bush stuff ...maybe not. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:33:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: loading of scanned pics to Homestead? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 08-OCT-2001 13:33 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us hey, folks; I can't get scanned images into my files on HS; it gives a message, "Page won't open." I only have 3 flyers that I want to post! --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:33:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: I Pledge Resistance In-Reply-To: <200110061347.f96DlcU13371@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > thus quoth: > Brian, you're speaking english. I can > understand you. This is > great. By the way, the reason you're the only one to > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:41:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110061334.f96DYvH13325@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am not so much throwing out my hands as I am finally understanding your concern. I am trying to simplify the mass construction of ultra-low-cost shelter. The "self-adjusting" aspect of the randome and its approach of vertexually subdividing a system may be helpful getting people inside sooner. Dick > ah, now you are "throwing your hands up" -- and > doing the Hokey-Pokey?... I was just clipping > from those pages, and know enough to see the > 6-degreeness > in the formula for a "sextic" surface; that's about > "it." > with this concession, > you have doven off the deep end of your mystaque; > congratulation! > > now, what on Earth are you trying to make, > since citing "randomeness" is a lot like praying to > Chaos > (Mother of Chronos) !?! > > thus quoth: > I think the thing that you are missing in the relevance > of > the hubdome is that the vertexes can be located > randomly. I > do not care one tiny bit if the edges are creased or > not. > If they must be sharply creased, than so be it. If the > faces are flat and not rounded, that is fine. This does > not > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:31:04 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 09-OCT-2001 7:30 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I don't get it; if this is not a problem of your elementary comprehension, then why has *my* head imploded? maybe, if you could find a defensible definition of "random," than apply it to geometry and the "randome;" presently, this toipic is devoid of a subject! thus quoth: I am trying to simplify the mass construction of ultra-low-cost shelter. The "self-adjusting" aspect of the randome and its approach of vertexually subdividing a system may be helpful getting people inside sooner. Dick > ah, now you are "throwing your hands up" -- and > doing the Hokey-Pokey?... I was just clipping > from those pages, and know enough to see the > 6-degreeness > in the formula for a "sextic" surface; that's about > "it." > with this concession, > you have doven off the deep end of your mystaque; > congratulation! > > now, what on Earth are you trying to make, > since citing "randomeness" is a lot like praying to > Chaos > (Mother of Chronos) !?! --Prenatal Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:43:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Re: Funds <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 09-OCT-2001 7:43 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I was making apoint about "the airport at Mena," after s upposed editor of *Soldier of Fortune* warned us (on another list) of a phoney offer from "corrupt Nigerian officials," using your bank-account access. the things were a crock. in common with "Area 51" and Roswell, NM, the Arkansas airport is a military facility, under the preview of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. that was a *self-described* corrupt "Nigerian," laundering a kickback to other corrupt officials, that had been booted out! thus quoth: > dude, I got two of those, and > they were quite absurd!... you're the *editor* of SoL? > in the first of your "warnings," > you said that you'd a reporter with stuff > "on the airport at Mena," as it's usaully put. well, --Prenatal Advisory! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:45:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 09-OCT-2001 7:45 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us SUBJECT: Re: geodesic MESSAGE from ="List 15-SEP-20 8:23 <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 15-SEP-2001 8:19 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us thus far, we have this hypothesis: "Dick" engenedered an entire (supposed) technology upon the flap-doodle assertion of one monsieur Petit, without any justicification behind it, at all (but the thing about the total solid angle was a pretty-good mystaque .-) Petit's expertise in hydrodynamics'd certainly allow him to apply a criticl analysis to his idea, but the "intrinsic geometry" of curvature is, as far as my limited scan of this math knoweth, probably hidden in the formalisms of differential geometry. so, it is neither here, nor there, or where. as for the "prototype," to avoid any recriminations, let us just be told of Dick's actual, given name a facsimile of a birth certificate will do, or of a drivers license -- if it isn't used in any future pro- or anti- "islamic" acts of horror! --Dos Equis: Why'd Scty.Stimson Nuke Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, Two? > > http://quincy4council.homestead.com/WTC.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 09:01:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: A F**** Curriculum? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 09-OCT-2001 9:01 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us finally, I've scanned my 3 curricular flyers to my site; the first has been "circulating" since January! they're .PCX files; are those the public-domain version of Compuserve's .GIF format, or is that .PNG?... for some reason, Homestdea wouldn't accept .PNGs of .JPGs, although it "says" that it will. if anyone has a problem with English as a First Language, take it "up" with da Queen! --A Funny Curriculum! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:32:22 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Updated Web Site.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have updated my Geodesic Dome paper ... though it is still a work in progress. I welcome you comments. http://geodesemetry.cjb.net Tony. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:57:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: a funny curriculum <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 10-OCT-2001 11:57 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us sorry, but I cannot get the flyer on the quadrivium etc. to open; my site says that the file is "open and being used by another application." the one that is specifically on geometry is somewhat specialized, as is the one on "FNT," although it also has stuff about the local Green Deisel program. http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:23:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110091445.f99EjIW28519@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I take back my retraction about not caring what kind of edges/surfaces we have in a verton. I do care and now I see what it is. The edges are not sharp creases, as in a faceted geodesic structure. They are non-uniform cylindrical surfaces that gently transition into a flat surface. The plain/smooth/simple-curvature of a verton is greatest at the edges. It then gradually decreases in curvature moving away from the edge. That is, as we move perpendicularly away from the edge of the verton(the edge defined by a straight line connecting vertexes), the radius of cylindrical curvature increases until the surface is flat. There are no conical surfaces in a verton. They are all cylindrical, but they are intersecting non-uniform cylindrical surfaces. The fortune cookie and the three corner hat are examples of this surface. For the record, I did not find monsieur Petit's web pages until more than a year into this subject. I first realized how a randome/verton "worked" in February 2000, while stapling paper plates together. Dick > > thus far, we have this hypothesis: > "Dick" engenedered an entire (supposed) technology > upon the flap-doodle assertion of one monsieur Petit, > without any justicification behind it, at all (but > the thing about the total solid angle was a > pretty-good mystaque .-) > Petit's expertise in hydrodynamics'd certainly > allow him > to apply a criticl analysis to his idea, but > the "intrinsic geometry" of curvature is, as far > as my limited scan of this math knoweth, probably > hidden > in the formalisms of differential geometry. so, > it is neither here, nor there, or where. > > as for the "prototype," > to avoid any recriminations, > let us just be told of Dick's actual, given name > a facsimile of a birth certificate will do, or > of a drivers license -- if it isn't used > in any future pro- or anti- "islamic" acts of horror! > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:07:39 -0300 Reply-To: marcelo@lol.com.br Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: marcelo Subject: Kingdome Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have feedback regarding Einar Thorsteinn Kingdome? I am interested in building one and wish to know if anyone attempted that and with what results, etc. Thanks in advance. Marcello iacoponi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:35:28 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: Kingdome Comments: To: marcelo@lol.com.br Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcello, The Kingdome's new website is located at: http://www.mmedia.is/kingdome/ I'm not in a position to make a recommendation; however, Bucky did write the intro to Einar's 1977 book _Nature's Forms_. You may want to browse thru my dome manufacturers collection; see: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm (scroll down to "Manufacturers") ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcelo" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 4:07 AM Subject: Kingdome > Does anyone have feedback regarding Einar Thorsteinn Kingdome? > > I am interested in building one and wish to know if anyone attempted that and with what results, etc. > > Thanks in advance. > > Marcello iacoponi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:49:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: compound cylindrical MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Compound cylindrical surfaces do not sound too difficult to understand. I just never considered them before. Plumbers must use them all the time. This must be what the surface curvature of the hubdome/verton amounts to. Dick http://www.technowrap.co.uk/twviper.htm Substrate System - Hybrid blend of fiberglass (e-glass), carbon fiber and polyamide yarns, braided (not knitted) into nominal +450 / 450 double walled "tape" of nominal widths from 0.75" to 6". "Ounce weight" varies by nominal width of product from between 9.4 to 18.8. This substrate is extremely conformable and accommodates compound cylindrical angles without crimping or stretching Resin System - Proprietary polyurethane water-reactive ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:40:48 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: Levi-Strauss Globe Comments: cc: foerd@OWEC.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr Ames, Hello! Unfortunately, I don't have very much information on the Levi-Strauss Dymaxion Globe sculpture. The Autumn 1996 BFI newsletter on page 3 briefly mentions it in conjunction with an Earthday event held in Santa Barbara on April 21, 1996. I don't know who made it or how many were built, and I assume the Levi-Strauss company donated the money to have it constructed. One may have been placed in the Bucky Fuller archives at Stanford University, CA. According to the First Search service, the library at the University of California in Santa Barbara, CA, has one globe that probably is on display, and the Library of Congress in Washington, DC, has another on display in the Geography & Map Reading Room. I suspect that you may have to arrange to have one made. The map info was printed on clear Plexiglas triangles which were riveted to a metal icosahedron framework. The bottom triangle had a hole for inserting a light bulb. According to the LOC record, the globe is 100 centimeters in diameter (40 inches). It shows land & water temperature. It may look something like this: http://www.dstoys.com/GP.html or http://kiwi.atmos.colostate.edu/BUGS/groupPIX/ross/ross1/ross1.html or http://www.geni.org/energy/assets/jpg/dymax.jpg Here's my map collection http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Man-Mass.htm (scroll down to "Maps") Hope this helps, PS: What is the name of your old school? ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Foerd Ames" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:25 PM Hi, Buckminster Fuller Institute suggested that I inquire, from this forum, whether anyone has or knows where I could get one of the three foot, plexiglass, Levi Strauss editions of the Dymaxion globe. I saw one on display at my old school (RBF's alma mater) and had to rip myself away from the urge to take it! I really need one so that I may further detail a world deployment plan of a modular, tetrahedral Ocean Wave Energy Converter (OWEC). OWEC modules conjoin in octet truss space frame array and are neutrally buoyant so that many modules can form an OWEB (Ocean Wave Energy Web). A two-dimensional layout is shown on the OWEC Map page of my web site at www.owec.com. Also, if one clicks on the R. Buckminster Fuller name, it links to a letter he wrote me about the orientation of his icosahedral grid... Anyway, the Levi Strauss edition would be fantastic for the purpose and I am pleading for someone to give or sell one to me. Unfortunately, Ocean Wave Energy Company is presently extremely small and underfunded but, perhaps, we could make some sort of payment arrangement. I'm very happy to have finally found this group and I hope to join in the discussion. Please feel free to email me with any questions or observations about this inquiry. Sincerely, Foerd Ames Ocean Wave Energy Company 20 Burnside Street Bristol, RI 02809 USA email: foerd@owec.com web site: www.owec.com voice and fax: 401-253-4488 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:16:19 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: My exhortation Comments: To: AdComm@topica.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Mark, I don't think you should be quite so pessimistic. Fuller pointed out that we are witnessing a titantic battle between the physical & the metaphysical--between those who want to control the world by sheer physical force & those who want to guide the world through the force of ideas. And he pointed out that it would be touch-and-go until the final moment of no return. I have to believe that we haven't reached that point yet, and that when we do, we (humanity) will choose right over might & thereby pass our "final exam". ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Siegmund" To: "TetCenter-Topica" ; "AdComm-Topica" Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 9:17 AM Subject: My exhortation > Friends, below is an email I just sent my sister and I thought I would > share those thoughts with you... > > Mark > > How're you doing re our newest global war? > > You know it's a spooky thing about bin Laden--some 10-20 years ago (and I > wish I could remember the reference--as I would like to review it again), I > read that the anti-Christ had already been born somewhere in the Arab world > and would beginning to do his work before too long. While I ordinarily read > such things with scepticism and doubt, it has remained active in my memory, > and that memory surfaced yesterday as I was considering the meaning of bin > Laden. > > And while I generally consider organized religions (no matter the particular > faith) to be the continuing scourge of humankind--I do honor and try to lead > my life according to the essences of what I consider to be the best messages > of the various spiritual teachings--whether they be Hindu, Christian, etc.. > > As to Christianity--I do reject, probably entirely, the Old Testament--as it > pre-dated the life of Christ and much of its teachings were rejected by > Christ (e.g., a vengeful God juxtaposed with a loving God). I believe there > is much evil lurking and walking within and amongst the practices and > teachings of most, if not all, organized religions. > > I belive there is, and remains, a great confrontation between the > universal elements of entropy and anti-entropy--nilism or death and > universal generation or life--the dark and the light. > > And while our current problem is undoubtedly a great struggle for light over > darkness--I can already see the emergence of the darkness of a global "holy" > war--on both sides of the equation. The intolerances, deceits and > arrogances of "our" Christianity vs. those of Islam. > > You know for some years now, some of the wise men and women of the United > Nations--which is unique in its global overview of global humanity-- have > been trying to make the case for the need to gather together the leadership > of all religions in the name of humanity to come together to try and > identify those teachings universal to all religions and draft a universal > statement to which all can agree. The rest of it, I surmise, could be left > behind--consigned to the dust bin of human mis-interpretations and > demogoguery. > > And the more we, America, raise our crisis to the level of a Christian > driven and derived nation arrayed against the forces of evil (fundamentalist > Islam), the more we risk the elevation of it to a Christian imperial power > against Islam--ie, the holy war called for by bin Laden. We need to keep > uppermost in mind that our government has by design, separation of church > and state. > > Stop rolling out the ministers and priests in settings clearly linked to our > actions and government--this only exacerbates the perceptions by Arabs and > others that it has become a holy war. As I speak, Donald Rumsfeld is > offering a prayer (broadcast on CNN) for the fallen in New York--which has > just been followed by a priest quoting scripture from the Bible--now they're > singing--"My Eyes Have Seen The Glory". Totally inflammatory in my > view--considering our current situation. > > Let us rather, in my opionion, convene a global conference on addressing the > conditions of poverty, hunger, hopelessness, illiteracy of so many hundreds > of millions of our brothers and sisters--the very breeding ground from > whence bin Laden draws his strengths. Let our coalition rise to its > potential for good in the world. > > Forgive my spontaneous exhortations... > > I fear for the future of us all... > > What I am seeing, I belive, bodes very ill for the future of humankind. > > I'm afraid, that like Thoreau, I march to a different drummer. > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 08:35:09 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: New Amazon.com Features Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some of the books at Amazon.com now show the Table of Contents, Index, & = Back Cover plus various sample pages; for example, see _Bucky Works_: = http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471198129/qid=3D1002986792/sr=3D8= -3/ref=3Dsr_8_3_3/107-9306788-9733325 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:36:03 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Dome for sale/Rochester, NY/USA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE fyi/jb Dome is located on Northwood Street (in case you need it for the search). I think this is the direct link to this property. Dome and a dome garage. A student of mine sent me this link. I do not know the property or the owners.=20 =09john belt Subject: Nothnagle [iso-8859-1] REALTORS=AE. Rochester's Full Service=20 [iso-8859-1] REALTOR=AE. Homes for sale in Rochester, NY http://surge.e-net.com/search/nothnagle/property/proplist?CONTAINS_Address= =3Dnorthwood ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:07:24 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: Levi-Strauss Globe Comments: To: Joe S Moore In-Reply-To: <005001c1533c$a5b48960$238cfea9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII fyi/jb Mr. Moore, Mr. Ames, and All There were twenty five of the map globes made to use in the major stores of Levi-Strauss. At the end of the promotion the globes were donated to BFI. BFI made available two of these as gifts to educational institutions and the remaining were advertised through BFI for sale at $600 per copy. Considering that Levi-Strauss paid $3470.00 per copy this price was very nice if one had the money and need for the globe. I received as a donation one of the globes from BFI. The structure is of aluminum angle covered with plexiglas panels with the map in color and ultraviolet proof inks were used. It is about forty inches in diameter. One triangle has a hole of about four inches to accept a light fixture so the globe can be internally illuminated. It is well made and the joints areas are attached with small crown head cap screws through the plastic panels to the aluminum struts. I am not sure if BFI sold all of the globes but it was a little over two years ago that I received my globe. Levi-Strauss might have the name of the manufacturer that produced the globes but the cost might be high for a single copy. I am not interested in selling my globe. You are welcome to come for a visit to look and measure, anytime. I feel that a folding panel globes or loose panels that could be applied to a wall for the purpose might even be of more value for the trends and patterns work. This much like the one pictured in the film/videos showing the one at Carbondale campus of Southern Illinois University with Fuller and students using it to show data. These would be easier and cheaper to produce as well as a better tool to display the information from one viewing position. There are many approaches as to materials and printing that could be developed at many price points and tooling abilities from craft to professional levels. The globe may be more limiting than you think. john belt .......................................................................... On Fri, 12 Oct 2001, Joe S Moore wrote: > Dear Mr Ames, > > Hello! Unfortunately, I don't have very much information on the > Levi-Strauss Dymaxion Globe sculpture. The Autumn 1996 BFI newsletter on > page 3 briefly mentions it in conjunction with an Earthday event held in > Santa Barbara on April 21, 1996. I don't know who made it or how many were > built, and I assume the Levi-Strauss company donated the money to have it > constructed. > > One may have been placed in the Bucky Fuller archives at Stanford > University, CA. > > According to the First Search service, the library at the University of > California in Santa Barbara, CA, has one globe that probably is on display, > and the Library of Congress in Washington, DC, has another on display in the > Geography & Map Reading Room. > > I suspect that you may have to arrange to have one made. The map info was > printed on clear Plexiglas triangles which were riveted to a metal > icosahedron framework. The bottom triangle had a hole for inserting a light > bulb. According to the LOC record, the globe is 100 centimeters in diameter > (40 inches). It shows land & water temperature. > > It may look something like this: http://www.dstoys.com/GP.html > or http://kiwi.atmos.colostate.edu/BUGS/groupPIX/ross/ross1/ross1.html > or http://www.geni.org/energy/assets/jpg/dymax.jpg > > Here's my map collection http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Man-Mass.htm > (scroll down to "Maps") > > Hope this helps, > > PS: What is the name of your old school? > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joemoore@qwest.net > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Foerd Ames" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:25 PM > > > Hi, > > Buckminster Fuller Institute suggested that I inquire, from this forum, > whether anyone has or knows where I could get one of the three foot, > plexiglass, Levi Strauss editions of the Dymaxion globe. I saw one on > display at my old school (RBF's alma mater) and had to rip myself away from > the urge to take it! I really need one so that I may further detail a world > deployment plan of a modular, tetrahedral Ocean Wave Energy Converter > (OWEC). OWEC modules conjoin in octet truss space frame array and are > neutrally buoyant so that many modules can form an OWEB (Ocean Wave Energy > Web). A two-dimensional layout is shown on the OWEC Map page of my web site > at www.owec.com. Also, if one clicks on the R. Buckminster Fuller name, it > links to a letter he wrote me about the orientation of his icosahedral > grid... Anyway, the Levi Strauss edition would be fantastic for the purpose > and I am pleading for someone to give or sell one to me. Unfortunately, > Ocean Wave Energy Company is presently extremely small and underfunded but, > perhaps, we could make some sort of payment arrangement. > > I'm very happy to have finally found this group and I hope to join in the > discussion. Please feel free to email me with any questions or observations > about this inquiry. > > Sincerely, > > Foerd Ames > > Ocean Wave Energy Company > 20 Burnside Street > Bristol, RI 02809 USA > > email: foerd@owec.com > web site: www.owec.com > voice and fax: 401-253-4488 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 05:44:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 15-OCT-2001 5:44 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I'm looking forward to your giving us some sort of definition of "complex cylindrical curvature," that isn't pure smoke-and-mirrors-handwaving-and-breaking-because -they-were-smeared-with-BS! this is some sort of farce, perhaps starting with the funny idea that you live in the least populous state (?), that also happens to be the farthest in dystance from me, the only one who has gotten dirty with your **** -- other than parts of Alaska and Hawai'i! in short, sir, I challenge you to a duel at dawn, on a glacier in Colorado. thus quoth: I am looking forward to you intelligent comments about complex cylindrical surfaces, as in the verton. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:09:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Three wars in 10 years: when will we have peace? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 15-OCT-2001 9:09 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us it is quite dysgusting to see repeated exclamations about "American hegemony" as per the def. o'the 'WAND' Corp. (http://rrr.wand.org) and its 3 directors on the board o' the current Cabinet Warfare State (?), when it is all-too-clear, between the repeated efforts of the "mainstream" to simply state that "truth is the first to go," that Tinny Blare and "great" Britain are at the balls-out front of it. I even read a reference to a cartoon in The Guardian (herein?) of a giant "Robin H. Blair" standing over a tiny "W. Batman," without any mention of the British, military definition of the word, batman! with Tinny going 'round "representing the coalition" to all of Europe, esp. eastern Europe, we are rapidly being defined in terms of Kipling's Good, Great Game. people who believe in the Betty Dos as a sort of inefectual Tooth Fairy, are about to have their jaws busted, and be thus awakened -- after all the cuspidary has been evacuated! thus quoth: for U.S. hegemony, in the President's words, "for years to primarily at home, it seems, in the mind. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:06:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110151244.f9FCilT26768@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I wonder if the line on the surface of the verton between the vertexes can be straight, or, does it necessarily curve. If it does curve, the amount of bend and shape of that line may be related to the stiffness of the sheeting used, and the radius of curvature at the edge(sharp or gradual fold). I think the material MUST have to "bulge" a little, or deform, in order for the membrane to take on this verton shape, which I see as a joining of cylindrical diamond pieces whose cross-section is probably a catenary. More pictures coming. Dick Fischbeck Hubdome/Verton, Pat. Pending > I'm looking forward > to your giving us some sort of definition > of "complex cylindrical curvature," > that isn't pure > smoke-and-mirrors-handwaving-and-breaking-because > -they-were-smeared-with-BS! > this is some sort of farce, > perhaps starting with the funny idea that > you live in the least populous state (?), > that also happens to be the farthest in dystance from > me, > the only one who has gotten dirty with your **** -- > other than parts of Alaska and Hawai'i! > > in short, sir, I challenge you to a duel at dawn, > on a glacier in Colorado. > > thus quoth: > I am looking forward to you intelligent comments about > complex cylindrical surfaces, as in the verton. > > --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:14:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110151244.f9FCilT26768@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I'm looking forward > to your giving us some sort of definition > of "complex cylindrical curvature," > that isn't pure > smoke-and-mirrors-handwaving-and-breaking-because > -they-were-smeared-with-BS! > this is some sort of farce, > perhaps starting with the funny idea that > you live in the least populous state (?), > that also happens to be the farthest in dystance from > me, > the only one who has gotten dirty with your **** -- > other than parts of Alaska and Hawai'i! If you, Brian, are really in doubt about my sincerity and honesty, ask Steve Miller. He knows me. Or maybe he's in on the joke. You decide. Ask Chuck Knight, too, if you want. I assume you are just a little paranoid. I don't mind. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:04:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, then you might think that the minimum surface to connect two parrallel and coaxial circles should be a straight cylindrical film between them. Why is this not the case? - ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:15:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Orbit-Fragments & Other Wall Constructions. This exhibition is the latest manifestation of Art Professor Richard Calabro's "Orbits" series, where compound cylindrical forms are expertly executed in plaster. Wall constructions never exhibited before will be on view. Corridor Gallery through June 4." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:16:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Surgical treatment at the Eye Microsurgery Complex One billion people throughout the world wear glasses; 700 million have minus power eye glasses; 50 million need compound cylindrical glasses. " I didn't make up compound cylindrical. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:42:58 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: surfaces Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> I'm looking forward >> to your giving us some sort of definition >> of "complex cylindrical curvature," >> that isn't pure >> smoke-and-mirrors-handwaving-and-breaking-because >> -they-were-smeared-with-BS! >> this is some sort of farce, >> perhaps starting with the funny idea that >> you live in the least populous state (?), >> that also happens to be the farthest in dystance from >> me, >> the only one who has gotten dirty with your **** -- >> other than parts of Alaska and Hawai'i! > >If you, Brian, are really in doubt about my sincerity and >honesty, ask Steve Miller. He knows me. Or maybe he's in on >the joke. You decide. Ask Chuck Knight, too, if you want. I >assume you are just a little paranoid. I don't mind. > >Dick I have met Dick Fischbeck. He visited me at my house a few weeks ago. -- Steve Miller http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:21:39 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: surfaces Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> I'm looking forward >> to your giving us some sort of definition >> of "complex cylindrical curvature," >> that isn't pure >> smoke-and-mirrors-handwaving-and-breaking-because >> -they-were-smeared-with-BS! >> this is some sort of farce, >> perhaps starting with the funny idea that >> you live in the least populous state (?), >> that also happens to be the farthest in dystance from >> me, >> the only one who has gotten dirty with your **** -- >> other than parts of Alaska and Hawai'i! > >If you, Brian, are really in doubt about my sincerity and >honesty, ask Steve Miller. He knows me. Or maybe he's in on >the joke. You decide. Ask Chuck Knight, too, if you want. I >assume you are just a little paranoid. I don't mind. > >Dick What's more, Dick is not a hologram. He is a real person. We have been communicating for months, and have battled engineers together. I think he is honest and sincere. -- Steve Miller http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:32:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Euler showed in 1744 that a catenary revolved about its asymptote generates the only minimal surface of revolution. I don't know if this is relevant to the surface of a verton. It may be. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:51:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 16-OCT-2001 7:51 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us the Fischstichks are a big clan; did you get some "positive ID," Steve, or did he just snow you with beat-up cylinders? seriously, it isn't my problem, that a jyllion folks run fast and loose with the idea of curvature, which was completely dyssolved for the big 3 dimensions by Gauss. that is to say, the quadric surfaces that admit to "rulings" by straight lines are classified rather completely, and there are just a small few of'em. what I have staed is that it is clear, only from the fuzzy pictures, that these things are replete with compound curvatures and ruffled ridges and dystortions and ductile deformations. that said, it is interesting (a la Bucky) to speculate about the reality of simple curvature -- what acutally gives it structural integrity, wnen "capped" by spherical caps to close the system -- in actual, having-some-thickness sheet material; eh? really, I was finally glad to see some attempt at a conjecture, which I quote, first, below: thus quoth: If the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, then you might think that the minimum surface to connect two parrallel and coaxial circles should be a straight cylindrical film between them. Why is this not the case? why, not?... are you referring to a "minimal soapfilmy surface?" if so, that's irrelevant, as it also applies to sheetmetal! thus quoth: "Orbit-Fragments & Other Wall Constructions. This exhibition is the latest manifestation of Art Professor Richard Calabro's "Orbits" series, where compound cylindrical forms are expertly executed in plaster. Wall constructions never exhibited before will be on view. Corridor Gallery through June 4." doesn't compute, dude! thus quoth: "Surgical treatment at the Eye Microsurgery Complex One billion people throughout the world wear glasses; 700 million have minus power eye glasses; 50 million need compound cylindrical glasses. " I didn't make up compound cylindrical. I guess, the writer did, because this is the first time that I've heard of such lenses! --Banned by CyberPatrol! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:56:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 16-OCT-2001 7:56 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops; here's the one that I meant to quote, really. you're really starting to get "up, there" in your definitions of cylindrical what ever! thus quoth: I wonder if the line on the surface of the verton between the vertexes can be straight, or, does it necessarily curve. If it does curve, the amount of bend and shape of that line may be related to the stiffness of the sheeting used, and the radius of curvature at the edge(sharp or gradual fold). I think the material MUST have to "bulge" a little, or deform, in order for the membrane to take on this verton shape, which I see as a joining of cylindrical diamond pieces whose cross-section is probably a catenary. More pictures coming. Dick Fischbeck Hubdome/Verton, Pat. Pending hye, if Tesla could snow those guys, maybe you can, two!... seriously, you may well find some thing that is new & patentable; then, we can find the appropriate terminology for it. --Banned by CyberPatrol! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:57:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 16-OCT-2001 7:57 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops; here's the one that I meant to quote, really. you're really starting to get "up, there" in your definitions of cylindrical what ever! thus quoth: I wonder if the line on the surface of the verton between the vertexes can be straight, or, does it necessarily curve. If it does curve, the amount of bend and shape of that line may be related to the stiffness of the sheeting used, and the radius of curvature at the edge(sharp or gradual fold). I think the material MUST have to "bulge" a little, or deform, in order for the membrane to take on this verton shape, which I see as a joining of cylindrical diamond pieces whose cross-section is probably a catenary. More pictures coming. Dick Fischbeck Hubdome/Verton, Pat. Pending hye, if Tesla could snow those guys, maybe you can, two!... seriously, you may well find some thing that is new & patentable; then, we can find the appropriate terminology for it. --Banned by CyberPatrol! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:46:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "It is worthwhile to note that catenary has only one shape (it is not a family of curves). If you hold the two ends of a string, and vary the distance of their endings, you will see shapes of different sharpness and wonder how can they all be catenary. In fact, you are merely seeing different scales of catenary. The phenomenon is the same as looking at part of a circle. The closer you look, the straighter it is but the whole circle never changes shape. At each instance you are holding the string, the law of physics dictates its shape to be part of the catenary (since the string is finite in length). The wider apart the endings, the smaller part of catenary you see. " http://www.xahlee.org/SpecialPlaneCurves_dir/Catenary_dir/catenary.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:07:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] More on Boondocks <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 16-OCT-2001 8:07 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us while I like the Boondocks strip -- like the one where Gramps sputters awake to some ominous news announcment on the tube, which he missed, consciously -- it's always played heavily to the big white lie that Gore was cheated out of an office. the reality is a tragicomedy of the DNC's hubris, enacted to the dysgust of Arkansasans and Michiganites, especially, and the LATimes-LaOpinio/CNN pre-primary "debates;" that's my regular paper, the one that's owned by the 3rd-largest newspaper cpnglomerate, out of Chicago (just recall, the "zeroeth" is HQ'd in Toronto). thus quoth: http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/viewbo.htm Do check out this web site. the cartoonist has been pulled from the New York Daily News. We should have a campaign to restore his cartoons wherever they have been pulled. This IS a question of civil liberties. --Banned by CyberPatrol! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:56:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "The most important discoveries of James Bernoulli were his solution of the problem to find an isochronous curve; his proof that the construction for the catenary which had been given by Leibnitz was correct, and his extension of this to strings of variable density and under a central force; his determination of the form taken by an elastic rod fixed at one end and acted on by a given force at the other, the elastica; also of a flexible rectangular sheet with two sides fixed horizontally and filled with a heavy liquid, the lintearia; and lastly, of a sail filled with wind, the velaria. In 1696 he offered a reward for the general solution of isoperimetrical figures, that is, of figures of a given species and given perimeter which shall include a maximum area: his own solution, published in 1701, is correct as far as it goes." http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/HistMath/People/Bernoullis/RouseBall/RB_Bernoullis.html This sounds like the stressed plates of the verton or the plydome. Bucky says the folds that form the edges of the plydome are cylindrical. Are the also catenaries? Dick "a flexible rectangular sheet with two sides fixed horizontally and filled with a heavy liquid" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:16:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] A historical analysis of the current crisis <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 16-OCT-2001 8:16 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is the self-same version of history that Bucky Fuller was fed, in his maunderings in the vicinity of the Inst.for Advanced Studies. Wilson's university has always promoted the anglophile stuff, and this is easily shown by his actions, not his campaign, toward Blacks in the federal government, and his premiere of "the Birth of a Nation" at the "White House," thus reviving the moribund Knights of the Golden Circle (a rather large, geographical symbol of the KKK-predecessor). that is to say, the League would have been a British hegemony, just as the General Assebly is, today, somewhat of an "unbritish Commonwealth" hegemon; I don't know when they dropped "British" from the name. Kool Brittania! thus quoth: (I would suggest that anyone interested review Wilson's Points, in any encyclopedia, for a fuller discussion of this way of looking at the world.) At the time Wilson announced his Fourteen Points the other approach was one that diplomatic historians refer to as "balance of power" or "spheres of influence." This method would see the major powers in the world balanced fairly evenly against each other and surrounded by friendly and weaker nations. If one major nation go out of line, then it would be brought back into conformity with the system by another power. The question of an alternative is a difficult one, and as a historian I am uncomfortable in recommending one. I can say that in the 19th century, from 1815 to 1914, there were no European-wide or world conflicts and the balance of power approach was predominant. It was only with the rise of liberalism, coupled with nationalism, that this approach was ended, and World War I ensued. It was the greatest conflict in the history of mankind up to that point. Need I mention that the 20th century was the most violent in the history of human beings, a fact that suggests that liberalism and nationalism failed to achieve its goals if they be a world of peace and security. --Banned by CyberPatrol! >>>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:38:38 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: article Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, Thanks! I just checked out the Old House Journal website (http://209.164.8.65/index.shtm). The current issue is not online, but October will be next month, November, when I'll check again. ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 8:47 AM Subject: article > > Joe- There is an article in Old House Journal, October '01, about the > dymaxion home, I think. I wrote it down, but can't find it now. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:42:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: geodesic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Are you trying to reconcile Euclid with Synergetics? r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 16-OCT-2001 7:51 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > the Fischstichks are a big clan; > did you get some "positive ID," Steve, or > did he just snow you with beat-up cylinders? > seriously, > it isn't my problem, that a jyllion folks run fast and loose > with the idea of curvature, which was completely dyssolved > for the big 3 dimensions by Gauss. that is to say, > the quadric surfaces that admit to "rulings" > by straight lines are classified rather completely, and > there are just a small few of'em. > what I have staed is that it is clear, > only from the fuzzy pictures, > that these things are replete with compound curvatures and > ruffled ridges and dystortions and ductile deformations. that said, > it is interesting (a la Bucky) to speculate > about the reality of simple curvature > -- what acutally gives it structural integrity, > wnen "capped" by spherical caps to close the system -- > in actual, having-some-thickness sheet material; > eh? > > really, I was finally glad to see some attempt > at a conjecture, which I quote, first, below: > > thus quoth: > If the shortest distance between two points is a straight > line, then you might think that the minimum surface to > connect two parrallel and coaxial circles should be a > straight cylindrical film between them. Why is this not the > case? > > why, not?... are you referring to a "minimal soapfilmy surface?" > if so, that's irrelevant, as it also applies to sheetmetal! > > thus quoth: > "Orbit-Fragments & Other Wall Constructions. This > exhibition is the latest manifestation of Art Professor > Richard Calabro's "Orbits" series, where compound > cylindrical forms are expertly executed in plaster. Wall > constructions never exhibited before will be on view. > Corridor Gallery through June 4." > > doesn't compute, dude! > > thus quoth: > "Surgical treatment at the Eye Microsurgery Complex > One billion people throughout the world wear glasses; 700 > million have minus power eye glasses; 50 million need > compound cylindrical glasses. " > > I didn't make up compound cylindrical. > > I guess, the writer did, because this is the first time > that I've heard of such lenses! > > --Banned by CyberPatrol! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:03:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are variations of the cylindrical sections due to varying stresses. Gravity exerts a longterm sagging effect. Some induced struts become creases.There is more stress around the base of my house than anywhere else, and the more horizontal bends there are more defined than the rest of the sphere. dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM wrote: > "The most important discoveries of James Bernoulli were his > solution of the problem to find an isochronous curve; his > proof that the construction for the catenary which had been > given by Leibnitz was correct, and his extension of this to > strings of variable density and under a central force; his > determination of the form taken by an elastic rod fixed at > one end and acted on by a given force at the other, the > elastica; also of a flexible rectangular sheet with two > sides fixed horizontally and filled with a heavy liquid, > the lintearia; and lastly, of a sail filled with wind, the > velaria. In 1696 he offered a reward for the general > solution of isoperimetrical figures, that is, of figures of > a given species and given perimeter which shall include a > maximum area: his own solution, published in 1701, is > correct as far as it goes." > > http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/HistMath/People/Bernoullis/RouseBall/RB_Bernoullis.html > > > This sounds like the stressed plates of the verton or the > plydome. Bucky says the folds that form the edges of the > plydome are cylindrical. Are the also catenaries? > > Dick > "a flexible rectangular sheet with two sides fixed > horizontally and filled with a heavy liquid" > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 01:59:58 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Bonnifield Subject: cylinder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bucky says the folds that form the edges of the > plydome are cylindrical. My dictionary says cylindrical: of, pertaining to, or having the form of a cylinder. cylinder: a surface or solid bounded by two parallel planes and generated by a line tracing a closed curve perpendicular to the given planes; a surface congruent with and perpendicular to two closed curves. By that definition there are no cylinders in plydomes or vertons, because there are no closed curves and no parallel planes. I think I know the shapes you are referring to, which are pieces of cylinders. Take a tin can standing up, make two vertical cuts along the whole length, and that section you cut out is I think close to the shape of an edge of a plydome. (The curve does not need to be circular, because a cylinder does not have to be round -- any closed curve can be the end of a cylinder.) If you make two cuts from one point on the bottom edge of the tin can so the cuts are angled away from vertical like a V, and another two cuts from a point on the top edge in an upside down V, so the piece that is cut out is "diamond" shaped, that piece cut out of a cylinder could be an edge of a verton. Or, take a flat square and slightly roll it parallel to an edge to get the plydome edge shape; roll it parallel to a diagonal to get the verton shape. But I think neither of those pieces of a cylinder are "cylindrical", according to the pre-Bucky definition. I have no idea what a "compound cylinder" is. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:05:58 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Bonnifield Subject: catenary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If the shortest distance between two points is a straight > line, then you might think that the minimum surface to > connect two parrallel and coaxial circles should be a > straight cylindrical film between them. Why is this not the > case? There's a great little book that explains this, Soap_Bubbles by C.V. Boys (Doubleday Anchor, 1959). It's a collection of amazing lecture / demonstrations Boys did live on stage in 1890. Fig.29 on p.65 shows a bubble blown between two parallel rings. He can add or subtract air from the bubble while it is stuck between the rings. Start with a spherical bubble, and trap it between two horizontal parallel rings. If air is added to the bubble while it is in the rings, the equatorial section between the rings bulges out further so it is no longer a section of a sphere. The top and bottom sections (the "caps") also bulge, becoming more curved. They are still pieces of spheres but they become bigger sections of a smaller sphere, ie their curvature increases. If air is removed, the middle section shrinks smoothly from bulge thru the original sphere to cylindrical. The top and bottom sections also get flatter, becoming smaller sections of a bigger sphere. When the middle section is cylindrical, the diameter of the cylinder is 1/2 the diameter of that sphere. Earlier he demonstrated that the curvature of a bubble is directly related to the pressure inside -- small bubbles have large curvature and high pressure, big bubbles have small curvature and low pressure. The curvature of a cylinder is 1/2 the curvature of a sphere of the same diameter. He proves that by experiment rather than knowing it from geometry -- when a cylindrical bubble and a spherical bubble are connected so their pressure equalizes, the sphere always has twice the diameter of the cylinder. Suck out more air and the middle section develops a waist. The top and bottom sections (the caps) become flat across the rings -- at that point, the middle section is a catenary. There is no pressure differential between inside and outside the bubble now, as seen by the flat surfaces on top and bottom. I think you can pop the top and bottom surfaces and the middle section keeps the catenary shape. Zero pressure implies zero curvature -- and the catenary satisfies that zero curvature because it is positively curved in the plane parallel to the rings, and negatively curved in the other direction perpendicular to the rings. Boys goes on and on with surprising insights, with great simple experiments. More air sucked out causes the caps to go concave and the middle smoothly changes to a more narrow waist than a catenary. All those curves that the middle section can take on are "roulettes of the conic sections." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:50:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110161451.f9GEpPq02320@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brian wrote: > what I have staed is that it is clear, > only from the fuzzy pictures, > that these things are replete with compound curvatures > and > ruffled ridges and dystortions and ductile deformations. > that said, This is the dyspute. I remain convinced that the verton and the plydome are wrapable, or developable. I take it, Brian, that you think the surface MUST stretch,i,e,- is not developable, right? Developability Check http://www.pilot3d.com/Plate%20Development.htm "As an aid to determine the developability of the plate, the developed YZ trace lines include a calculation at the end which compares the developed (2D) girth length of the YZ PlaneCut on the developed plate with the (3D) curved girth length of the YZ PlaneCut along the plate. Since the frame trace line is supposed to be wrapped onto the curved 3D shape of the cut-out YZ PlaneCut, then their two lengths should be the same. What the program calculates are both the 2D developed YZ PlaneCut girth length and the actual 3D shape of the cut on the surface. These two numbers should be equal if the plate is perfectly developable. If it isn’t, you can evaluate the difference in girth length to estimate whether you can stretch or twist the plate into shape or to determine about how much scrap material to leave along one edge. Note that this is just one estimate of how close a plate is to being perfectly developable. It still can be difficult to judge whether you can cut the plate out of 2D material and twist it into shape. We recommend that you take some examples that you have already built (both developable and non-developable) and put their shapes into the program and evaluate what the program thinks about their developability, both in terms of the Gaussian curvature and in terms of these 2D and 3D girth differences. Another common technique is to construct a model out of cardboard (plot scale versions of the frames and plates) and see if it can be built. Obviously, this is tedious, but not as bad as making a mistake on the full-size structure and wasting a lot of time and perhaps a big sheet of aluminum or steel." Make a model, he says! I thing that approach is valid. I will try to "wrap" a verton and see. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:11:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: cylinder In-Reply-To: <00fd01c156d1$f3bd2f20$01c8c8c8@com.planetc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Lee Bonnifield wrote: > cylinder: a surface or solid bounded by two parallel > planes > and generated by a line tracing a closed curve > perpendicular > to the given planes; a surface congruent with and > perpendicular to two closed curves. > > By that definition there are no cylinders in plydomes or > vertons, because there are no closed curves and no > parallel > planes. > > I think I know the shapes you are referring to, which are > pieces of cylinders. > I agree. > Take a tin can standing up, make two vertical cuts along > the > whole length, and that section you cut out is I think > close > to the shape of an edge of a plydome. (The curve does not > need to be circular, because a cylinder does not have to > be > round -- any closed curve can be the end of a cylinder.) > > If you make two cuts from one point on the bottom edge of > the tin can so the cuts are angled away from vertical > like a > V, and another two cuts from a point on the top edge in > an > upside down V, so the piece that is cut out is "diamond" > shaped, that piece cut out of a cylinder could be an edge > of > a verton. I'll buy this. > > Or, take a flat square and slightly roll it parallel to > an > edge to get the plydome edge shape; roll it parallel to a > diagonal to get the verton shape. > > But I think neither of those pieces of a cylinder are > "cylindrical", according to the pre-Bucky definition. Okay. > > I have no idea what a "compound cylinder" is. I think multi- or omni-cylindrical is the term I am looking for to describe the surface of the plydome or verton. I say the plydome and the verton share the same surface. Each is a developable, or smooth, surface which has been folded along lines that connect the vertexes of the system. In effect, all "compound curvature" is located at each and only at the vertexes. I am guessing, that when the structure is compressed from two opposite side, some edges go into tension. The other edges get comprssed. This compression of the cylindrical edges starts to bend and deforms these edges inwardly(they can't move outwardly). If the edges are not stressed past buckling, they spring outwardly back to their original shapes when the stress is removes. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:14:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: catenary In-Reply-To: <00fe01c156d1$f48e3ac0$01c8c8c8@com.planetc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Lee Bonnifield wrote: > > There's a great little book that explains this, > Soap_Bubbles > by C.V. Boys (Doubleday Anchor, 1959). It's a collection > of > amazing lecture / demonstrations Boys did live on stage > in > 1890. I actually have this! > > Fig.29 on p.65 shows a bubble blown between two parallel > rings. He can add or subtract air from the bubble while > it > is stuck between the rings. > > Start with a spherical bubble, and trap it between two > horizontal parallel rings. If air is added to the bubble > while it is in the rings, the equatorial section between > the > rings bulges out further so it is no longer a section of > a sphere. The top and > bottom sections (the "caps") also bulge, becoming more > curved. They are > still pieces of spheres but they become bigger sections > of a > smaller sphere, ie their curvature increases. > > If air is removed, the middle section shrinks smoothly > from > bulge thru the original sphere to cylindrical. The top > and > bottom sections also get flatter, becoming smaller > sections > of a bigger sphere. When the middle section is > cylindrical, > the diameter of the cylinder is 1/2 the diameter of that > sphere. > > Earlier he demonstrated that the curvature of a bubble is > directly related to the pressure inside -- small bubbles > have large curvature and high pressure, big bubbles have > small curvature and low pressure. The curvature of a > cylinder is 1/2 the curvature of a sphere of the same > diameter. He proves that by experiment rather than > knowing > it from geometry I love this part! Nothing like models. -- when a cylindrical bubble and a > spherical bubble are connected so their pressure > equalizes, > the sphere always has twice the diameter of the cylinder. > > Suck out more air and the middle section develops a > waist. The top and bottom > sections (the caps) > become flat across the rings -- at that point, the middle > section is a catenary. There is no pressure differential > between inside and outside the bubble now, as seen by the > flat surfaces on top and bottom. I think you can pop the > top and > bottom surfaces and the middle section keeps the catenary > shape. Zero pressure implies zero curvature -- and the > catenary satisfies that zero curvature because it is > positively curved in the plane parallel to the rings, and > negatively curved in the other direction perpendicular to > the rings. > > Boys goes on and on with surprising insights, with great > simple experiments. More air sucked out causes the caps > to > go concave and the middle smoothly changes to a more > narrow > waist than a catenary. All those curves that the middle > section can take on are "roulettes of the conic sections." Wow, thanks for the great discription. I have to go back and look at the book again. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:26:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <3BCD0309.4030709@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Steve Miller wrote: > There are variations of the cylindrical sections due > to varying > stresses. Gravity exerts a longterm sagging effect. Some > induced struts > become creases. Which way is the crease? There is more stress around the base of my > house than > anywhere else, What happens to the edges near the base? and the more horizontal bends there are > more defined than > the rest of the sphere. Do you mean straighter? More evenly curved? Are there areas more in tension and others more in compression? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:27:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii See surface at the bottom of this linked page: http://xahlee.org/SpecialPlaneCurves_dir/Deltoid_dir/deltoid.html Is it three cone intersecting? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:43:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] WSJ Article <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 7:43 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us thus far, the Administration's supposed promotion of nuclear power (os that we don't have to burn "fossils" for anything but the most salient uses as a fuel) amounts to a big zip. now, new "realities" of proliferation may have locked us in to suckling the Mideast Petrobooby; eh? oh, and more coal, under an intl. diktat via the "emissions trading scheme" of the Kyoto Protocol. thus quoth: In short, it won't happen without a concerted effort on our part, and given the current administration's connection with Big Oil and their past proposals to meet the problem by increasing production rather than reducing demand I don't see it happening any time soon. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:37:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A cone can be any shape generated by a line passing through a point and any closed curve base. Just like a cylinder, it is not limited to circlar based, like Lee pointed out. http://www.geom.umn.edu/docs/reference/CRC-formulas/node58.html#SECTION02530000000000000000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:39:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Same thing as last post, but for the cylinder. http://www.geom.umn.edu/docs/reference/CRC-formulas/node57.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:56:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 7:56 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us alright; you've finally dug-up an adequate dyscussion of the subject of curvature!... cubic surfaces (made using equations of 3rd degree) generally have some (27?) lines in'em, but let's stick with the quadrics. the definition of "general" cylinders (from two identical curves in parallel planes) is more like "compounding" them, since you have to change direction of the curvature of the line. (it may also be that "compound cylindrical lenses" are just specialized for reading a *line* of text, actually using more than one lement of cylindrical (simply) lenses for folks with REALLY BAD SIGHT; I'm sure, I've seen something like that on TV .-) thus quoth: This is the dyspute. I remain convinced that the verton and the plydome are wrapable, or developable. I take it, Brian, that you think the surface MUST stretch,i,e,- is not developable, right? Developability Check http://www.pilot3d.com/Plate%20Development.htm the example of pydomes is the most cogent model, since they have so little ductility: they either rip, or the fold (that is, sylindrically). thus quoth: reality, however, people have found that the surface to be constructed out of flat material does not have to be perfectly developable to be buildable. For many materials, it is relatively easy to introduce stretch, twist or compound curvature in the 2D pattern as you wrap it into its 3D shape. This allowance for twist opens up a huge range of additional 3D shapes that can be built from 2D patterns. The problem is that there is no exact answer to how much twist you can have before the stretching or twisting cant be done or before the material fails. As soon as you introduce stretching or twisting, there is no one solution to the process of unwrapping and flattening out the 3D surface into its 2D pattern shape. As you can imagine, the 3D shape that is created from the 2D pattern depends on how you stretch and twist the pattern. We have found, however, that if the 3D model shape is nearly developable, then you should have no problems with the unwrapped 2D pattern. Unfortunately, it may take some trial-and-error practice to determine what nearly means. thus quoth: Stephen M. Hollister New Wave Systems, Inc. A surface is developable if it is a combination of flat, cylindrical, and conical sections. A developable surface is one where you can lay a straight edge anywhere on the surface and find a direction where it completely touches the surface at all parts of the straight edge. This straight section of the surface is called a ruling line. Note that for flat, cylindrical, and conical sections, this test would always be true. A mathematical description of this condition is when the Gaussian curvature of the surface is zero at all points. This is just a fancy way of saying that for all points on the surface there is always one direction that is straight (has a curvature of zero). The purpose of creating developable surfaces is to allow you to unwrap or flatten out the surface so that you can cut it out of flat material, like plywood, aluminum, steel, and even cloth. If you cut the pattern out using CNC (Computer Numerical Control), you can save a lot of time building the 3D structure. In --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) !! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:49:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii See picture forth from the bottom. Colored by Gaussian curvature. This may not be the tetraverton, but it is a nice graphic of how evenly curvature is dystributed throughout a surface that looks a lot like the verton. http://math.cl.uh.edu/%7Egray/Gifsurfs/surfs.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:11:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 8:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops; Boys little book is definitely the most sublime wrok-out in all of curvature, and I hadn't recalled most of what you wrote, here. thus quoth: There's a great little book that explains this, Soap_Bubbles by C.V. Boys (Doubleday Anchor, 1959). It's a collection of amazing lecture / demonstrations Boys did live on stage in 1890. Fig.29 on p.65 shows a bubble blown between two parallel rings. He can add or subtract air from the bubble while it is stuck between the rings. Start with a spherical bubble, and trap it between two horizontal parallel rings. If air is added to the bubble while it is in the rings, the equatorial section between the rings bulges out further so it is no longer a section of a sphere. The top and bottom sections (the "caps") also bulge, becoming more curved. They are still pieces of spheres but they become bigger sections of a smaller sphere, ie their curvature increases. If air is removed, the middle section shrinks smoothly from bulge thru the original sphere to cylindrical. The top and bottom sections also get flatter, becoming smaller sections of a bigger sphere. When the middle section is cylindrical, the diameter of the cylinder is 1/2 the diameter of that sphere. Earlier he demonstrated that the curvature of a bubble is directly related to the pressure inside -- small bubbles have large curvature and high pressure, big bubbles have small curvature and low pressure. The curvature of a cylinder is 1/2 the curvature of a sphere of the same diameter. He proves that by experiment rather than knowing it from geometry -- when a cylindrical bubble and a spherical bubble are connected so their pressure equalizes, the sphere always has twice the diameter of the cylinder. Suck out more air and the middle section develops a waist. The top and bottom sections (the caps) become flat across the rings -- at that point, the middle section is a catenary. There is no pressure differential between inside and outside the bubble now, as seen by the flat surfaces on top and bottom. I think you can pop the top and bottom surfaces and the middle section keeps the catenary shape. Zero pressure implies zero curvature -- and the catenary satisfies that zero curvature because it is positively curved in the plane parallel to the rings, and negatively curved in the other direction perpendicular to the rings. Boys goes on and on with surprising insights, with great simple experiments. More air sucked out causes the caps to go concave and the middle smoothly changes to a more narrow waist than a catenary. All those curves that the middle section can take on are "roulettes of the conic sections." --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) !! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:14:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 8:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us there isn't much to reconcile; you just have to *know* it, as Bucky did, or you're "half (or more) of a load, shy." thus quoth: Are you trying to reconcile Euclid with Synergetics? >--Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) !! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:15:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 8:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us another good reference! thus quoth: "The most important discoveries of James Bernoulli were his solution of the problem to find an isochronous curve; his proof that the construction for the catenary which had been given by Leibnitz was correct, and his extension of this to strings of variable density and under a central force; his determination of the form taken by an elastic rod fixed at one end and acted on by a given force at the other, the elastica; also of a flexible rectangular sheet with two sides fixed horizontally and filled with a heavy liquid, the lintearia; and lastly, of a sail filled with wind, the velaria. In 1696 he offered a reward for the general solution of isoperimetrical figures, that is, of figures of a given species and given perimeter which shall include a maximum area: his own solution, published in 1701, is correct as far as it goes." http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/HistMath/People/Bernoullis/RouseBall/RB_Bernou llis. html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:23:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is this a smooth, non-stretched surface? Can this be made from a sheet of flat material? If so, what kind of surface is it? Is it 4 cylindrical surfaces intersecting? http://www.math.umn.edu/~roberts/java.dir/JGV/cubic_ruling.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:42:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Plydomes and vertons are developable, but not ruled, surfaces, from what I gather. "Surfaces of Revolution Surfaces that result from revolving a curve about an axis. Minimal Surfaces Minimal surfaces have zero mean curvature. Ruled Surfaces These contain a 1-parameter family of straight lines. Developable Surfaces A developable surface is a ruled surface with no curvature. " http://www.math.hmc.edu/faculty/gu/curves_and_surfaces/surfaces/_geometry.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:49:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is an algebraic surface also a developable one? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:51:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nice picture of Barth's sextic. See rounded cylindrical(?) edges. http://www.uib.no/People/nfytn/sextgif.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:04:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Developable? "The Cayley cubic Up to projective isomorphism there is exactly one surface of degree three (cubic) with µ(3)=4 nodes. This surface is called Cayley cubic and satisfies the following equation: 4(x^3+y^3+z^3+w^3)-(x+y+z+w)^3=0 http://enriques.mathematik.uni-mainz.de/kon/docs/cayley_big.gif "The Cayley cubic is invariant under the symmetry group of the tetrahedron S4 and contains exactly nine lines: six lines connecting the four nodes pairwise and another three coplanar lines. The classification of singular cubic surfaces is due to the mathematicians Artur Cayley and Ludwig Schläfli." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:55:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 10:55 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us here's the problem: there is no indicated "ruling" of the surface in the "Mathematica projection from 4-space into 3-space," nor can I tell from the caption, just what they *mean* by their 4-space -- how it's constructed, where the 4th axis lays etc. in general, "real" cubic surfaces have only 27 straight things going through them, as I recall. it's got a nice, simple formula in cylindrical coordinates, which is some thing to think about, when you're dealing with simple curvature, in general; eh? I have not entered into monsieur Wolfram's headspace, so far, and I don't really intend to, although I'm sure that it is quite a play-toy for others! thus quoth: Is this a smooth, non-stretched surface? Can this be made from a sheet of flat material? If so, what kind of surface is it? Is it 4 cylindrical surfaces intersecting? http://www.math.umn.edu/~roberts/java.dir/JGV/cubic_ruling.html --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) !! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:59:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 10:59 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us plainly, not cylindrical corners, by inspection! thus quoth: Nice picture of Barth's sextic. See rounded cylindrical(?) edges. http://www.uib.no/People/nfytn/sextgif.htm --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) !! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:01:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 11:01 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us no; "algebraic" just refers to the formula, meaning "simpler than transcendental." thus quoth: Is an algebraic surface also a developable one? --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) !! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:06:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 14:06 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you're compounding definitions into ... ?!? thus quoth: Plydomes and vertons are developable, but not ruled, surfaces, from what I gather. "Surfaces of Revolution Surfaces that result from revolving a curve about an axis. Minimal Surfaces Minimal surfaces have zero mean curvature. Ruled Surfaces These contain a 1-parameter family of straight lines. Developable Surfaces A developable surface is a ruled surface with no curvature. " http://www.math.hmc.edu/faculty/gu/curves_and_surfaces/surfaces/_geometry .html --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) !! > >http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:09:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 17-OCT-2001 14:09 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us plydomes are by definition ruled --if a cylinder is-- they are stricly within the family of polyhedral shapes (with cylindrical bendings), not this "randomvertonic" stuff. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:09:07 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Dome Auction Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Used 24' Pacific Dome up for bid right now on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1286635634 For a picture see http://pacificdomes.com/domes/24ft.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:22:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110172109.f9HL9Wd12034@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lete's ask Steve about plydome vertexes. Steve, do the conical caps you add at the vertexes on your plydome CONFORM, or blend into, the plywood sheet without wrinkles? Dick --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin > 17-OCT-2001 14:09 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > plydomes are by definition ruled > --if a cylinder is-- > they are stricly within the family of polyhedral shapes > (with cylindrical bendings), > not this "randomvertonic" stuff. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:02:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] FCNL: Legislative Action Message 10/18/01 <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 18-OCT-2001 7:02 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I usually don't read the FCNL Action thing, but the subject caught me. I seriously doubt that the Administrations "looking into 'unsigning'" the ICC treaty is going to amount to any thing, because W. is in the same faux-republican retinue as his daddy -- and the passle of folk on the Cabinet from the 'WAND' Corp. (again, look at the pre-election (Fall) *WAND Weview*, with its bizarre cover-article on "American hegemony," that they espouse with such open subterfuge.) http://www.rand.org and see the '92 bio o'daddy at http://www.tarpley.net -- please! it's hardly surprizing that G.B. is the 42nd country to sign the thing, either. just as with their complacence with the Euro, the City is the premier local of dealing its exchange, and skimming off o'the top of the flux in its valuation, it don't mean too much; eh? re US oil import data & links, your point is taken about the unAmericanness of the conlgomerates, but the linkage of bombing Iraq "for" oil is, What, Friendly Fred?... anyway, OPEC is certainly not in the drivers seat on oil prices, and, now, how many of'em have signed the 'Protocol of the Elders of Kyoto,' thus far? this was herr Schiller paraphrasing Winston Churchill's, "the truth must be protected by a bodyguard of lies;" no? thus quoth: _Mit_der_Dummheit_kaempfen_die_Goetter_selbst_vergebens_. -- Friedrich von Schiller, "Jungfrau von Orleans," III.6 --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) at UCLA! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:05:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 18-OCT-2001 7:05 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us these are planar things! thus quoth: See surface at the bottom of this linked page: http://xahlee.org/SpecialPlaneCurves_dir/Deltoid_dir/deltoid.html Is it three cone intersecting? --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:07:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 18-OCT-2001 7:07 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is definitely the ultra-coolest property of the catenary, amongst its many others. thus quoth: "It is worthwhile to note that catenary has only one shape (it is not a family of curves). If you hold the two ends of a string, and vary the distance of their endings, you will see shapes of different sharpness and wonder how can they all be catenary. In fact, you are merely seeing different scales of catenary. The phenomenon is the same as looking at part of a circle. The closer you look, the straighter it is but the whole circle never changes shape. At each instance you are holding the string, the law of physics dictates its shape to be part of the catenary (since the string is finite in length). The wider apart the endings, the smaller part of catenary you see. " http://www.xahlee.org/SpecialPlaneCurves_dir/Catenary_dir/catenary.html --les ducs d'Enron! >> http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:11:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 18-OCT-2001 7:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well uh I can think of one, other! thus quoth: Euler showed in 1744 that a catenary revolved about its asymptote generates the only minimal surface of revolution. --Banned by CyberPatrol! 64 http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:18:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: education intimation <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 18-OCT-2001 7:18 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us SUBJECT: PEN Weekly NewsBlast for October 12, 2001 MESSAGE from =newsblast@lyris.publiceducation.o 14-OCT-20 9:23 Public Education Network Weekly NewsBlast "America's Favorite Free Newsletter on Improving Public Education" ************************************************************************* ** URBAN TAIL WAGS THE PUBLIC SCHOOL DOG This brief, by Stanford Professor Larry Cuban, argues that key assumptions driving standards-based school reform and accountability testing (all schools are basically alike, and a "one-size-fits-all" leadership can solve America's school problems) are inapplicable to urban schools. It declares that the tasks facing urban school leaders differ both in magnitude and kind from those guiding other school districts. Three "obvious fictions" about large urban school districts are debunked in the essay: (1) Big city schools are ungovernable, (2) the superintendency is a revolving door that brings in and tosses out school chiefs one after the other, and (3) schools alone can improve the life chances of poor children. Cuban also offers a glimpse of the tough tasks ahead for those who believe in the civic and moral obligations that accompany improving public schools for those who have been so ill served in the past. http://www.iel.org/21streportsframeset.html MARCH TOWARD EXCELLENCE: LESSONS FROM DEPT. OF DEFENSE K-12 SCHOOLS Schools operated by the Department of Defense to educate the children of service men and women may hold the key to closing the achievement gap between white and minority students in the nation's public schools, according to a new study. Test result show that African American and Hispanic students enrolled in U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) schools in the United States and abroad ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in the nation on reading and writing tests. Researchers say the scores tell us that DoD is doing something right despite the challenge of educating students who are transient because of the nature of military life. They have pinpointed several key elements in the schools' successes and believe these methods can be applied to improve civilian public schools. http://www.usatoday.com/life/2001-10-09-military-schools.htm LINKING MIDDLE SCHOOL LITERACY AND MISBEHAVIOR When the Orange County, FL school system began its focus on middle school students who had been suspended 30 days or more, they made a startling discovery: All had reading comprehension scores below the 25th percentile on the Stanford 9 Achievement Test. Middle school students report that they develop coping strategies to avoid reading, including misbehavior. In response, the district developed a literacy program that addresses the developmental and literacy needs of older, reluctant readers. http://www.nsdc.org/library/jsd/taylor224.html TONI MORRISON, NICOLAS LEMANN HEADLINE PEN 2001 ANNUAL CONFERENCE Assessment and accountability policies and practices lie at the heart of ongoing debates about what is best for public schools. Join the Public Education Network, November 11-13 in Washington, DC, in examining the role of schools and whole communities in taking responsibility for student learning. Download the conference brochure. Register online to receive early bird discounts. http://www.publiceducation.org/events/ac2k1 HOW MUCH MULTICULTURALISM IS ENOUGH? Every time U.S. military forces become involved abroad, many educators say we have failed to prepare students to analyze the events that led to the bloodshed. And that in turn has led, in every military conflict since World War II, to bitter arguments among educators, parents and pundits over whether our classroom lessons include too much, or too little, affirmation of American values and policies. How vigorously should American teachers wave the flag? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32040-2001Oct9.html TEACHERS WITHOUT BORDERS: AIDING EDUCATION INTERNATIONALLY A few months after Fred Mednick quit his job - "fired myself," he says - as a top administrator at the prestigious Bush School, he found himself sitting in a Bedouin tent with a new Muslim friend named Jihad. Now, after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Mednick, a Jew, is continuing to build friendships with people of different faiths and cultures, in countries as far-flung as Sierra Leone, Israel, Jordan, India and Bangladesh. Life is changing for Mednick and for people halfway around the world due to the efforts of Teachers Without Borders, the year-old organization he runs out of his Seattle home. The group, with 1,200 members in 58 nations, launched its first project in May when it provided computers to a community teaching and learning center in the Bedouin village of Lakiya in Israel's Negev Desert. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134351114_jihad08m.html BUILDING A SENSE OF COMMUNITY IN MIDDLE SCHOOLS The sense of community shared by teachers and parents who are active at a school is affected by systematic efforts by the school to involve parents in their child's education and by the principal's leadership style. This article discusses what is meant by a "sense of school community" and which aspects of family involvement programs and principal leadership are most predictive of a strong sense of community. http://www.principals.org/news/bltn_prac_cond1001.html WHY LIBERALS SHOULD BE PRO-CHOICE WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOL VOUCHERS The voucher controversy presents an issue in which basic democratic values are in conflict. On one side are those who passionately believe that only public schools can create a democratic community; and on the other side are those who insist that it is undemocratic to deny freedom of choice, particularly when choices are easily accessible to the affluent. http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/ravitch/20011008.htm LESSONS ON SCHOOL VOUCHERS IN MAINE For more than 100 years, taxpayers in Maine have financed a public education system that allows thousands of students to attend private schools. No studies have compared the academic test scores of students who receive vouchers with those of students assigned to local public schools, so there is no evidence that vouchers have led to improved academic performance. http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-066es.html POWERFUL PATHWAYS FOR VULNERABLE YOUTH Research and experience in youth development suggests that vulnerable, ill-served youth-even those who carry scars from a decade of inadequate services and limited opportunity-can transform their lives when support is delivered comprehensively, consistently, and in ways that respect their voices and recognize and build on their strengths. Initiatives highlighted in this new report demonstrate that cost-effective and effective strategies are within our reach. http://www.publiceducation.org/health/resources/youth.htm EDUCATING HEARTS & MINDS: SOCIAL & EMOTIONAL LEARNING Since the beginning of formal education, there has been a dialogue about the purpose of schooling: What really matters? What is most important to teach and why and how? In recent years, teachers and researchers have rediscovered what good teachers and parents have known for many years: that knowledge of ourselves and others as well as the capacity to use this knowledge to solve problems creatively provides an essential foundation for both academic learning and the capacity to become an active, constructive citizen. Promoting social and emotional learning (SEL) helps students to learn and develop, and it helps teachers to be even more effective educators. http://www.ascd.org/readingroom/books/cohen99book.html#chap1 UNDERSTANDING SOFTWARE USE AND ABUSE IN OUR SCHOOLS When the Los Angeles Unified School District was caught and fined for using 1,400 unauthorized copies of software programs, school districts nationwide considered the implications. Concerned educators asked themselves: "If such an institution lacks the ability to follow the rules, what can be expected of the students?" http://www.techlearning.com/db_area/archives/WCE/archives/radams.htm --Banned by CyberPatrol! > 64 http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:09:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is another surface similar to the verton. They say the "grail" IS a developable surface. Comments? http://math.smith.edu/~callahan/grail.html Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:13:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes. dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM wrote: > Lete's ask Steve about plydome vertexes. > > Steve, do the conical caps you add at the vertexes on your > plydome CONFORM, or blend into, the plywood sheet without > wrinkles? > > Dick > --- Brian Hutchings > wrote: > >><> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin >>17-OCT-2001 14:09 >> r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >> >> plydomes are by definition ruled >> --if a cylinder is-- >> they are stricly within the family of polyhedral shapes >> (with cylindrical bendings), >> not this "randomvertonic" stuff. >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:26:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 18-OCT-2001 10:26 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us again, it's hard to know what to think, since the quartic equation is done-up in 5-space, although the "grail" appears to be an ordinary object that is supposedly ruled (like it says, it's a cone that has been slightly manipulated). 5-space is "right," because it gives you homogenous co-ordination of the object (all of the co-ordinates are treated, the same), but I can't help you, beyond that. so, what is NOT "similar to the verton?" there's got to be some way, some how, to get a definition out of you. in the meantime, and cranky, it's clear "by inspection" that you are not "half empty" o'****! thus quoth: Here is another surface similar to the verton. They say the "grail" IS a developable surface. Comments? http://math.smith.edu/~callahan/grail.html --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) at UCLA !?! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:02:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 18-OCT-2001 11:02 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us by the way, thanks to "Dick" and his hodge-podge of serfings, I've got a few new links on my _S_ page for geometry, like the following *re* James B. -- and sorry about the background, but I may be able to tone it down, for further use -- http://quincy4board.homestead.com/James.html "Neither gnarly wave, nor read tide, nor hungry lawyer-sharks, nor especially Arabs-who-should-all-be-brought-to-Mecca- for-a-good-nuking, shall stop us from defining Randomes with Vertons on the net!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:36:46 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: New FEMA Manual Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The (USA) Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) published in July = 2000 a guidance manual (FEMA 361) for engineers, architects, building = officials, and prospective shelter owners entitled _Design and = Construction Guidance for Community Shelters_. It declares that = structures strong enough to survive tornadoes & hurricanes can actually = be built. It goes on to describe how such buildings should be designed = such as continuous load paths & minimizing sharp angles, corners, and = large flat surfaces. It would seem to me that a properly designed = geodesic dome would meet all these design criteria. For further = information see: http://www.fema.gov/mit/FEMA361.htm=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:38:04 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: Thank you very much for your October 5 email and.... Comments: To: vyom akhil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vyom, The North Face company is now located at the following address: 2013 Farallon Dr San Leandro, CA 94577-6601 1-510-618-3500 Their Chief Executive Officer is Mr Geoffrey D. Lurie I got this info from a company called Hoover's http://www.hoovers.com/. It's the best source I know of for tracking down companies. The North Face has a website at http://www.thenorthface.com/ ----------------- Team Syntegrity has a website at http://www.uoguelph.ca/~gfilewod/ts.html and http://www.phrontis.com/facilts.htm Stafford Beer has a website at http://www.staffordbeer.com/ The World Syntegrity Project is at http://www.worldgovernment.org/syn.html I checked 4 used book sites for _Beyond Dispute_with no luck; I guess no one is selling their copies--yet. ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "vyom akhil" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 9:04 PM Subject: Thank you very much for your October 5 email and.... > Joe, my friend, > (snip) > A couple of years ago, I tried to locate the people > who had made the 2-meter geodesic tent-domes and sold > it under the company name . They had a > Berkeley, CA address. But it was a hassle because the > ISP connection would go kaput every few seconds. > > I also had no luck connecting up with Canada-based > Syntergrity, Inc. These are people who conduct > syntegration workshops to crack management problems on > principles worked out by Professor Stafford Beer, who, > per Jay Baldwin's book spent ten years on > four words Bucky had uttered - All systems are > polyhedra - to produce a book on the science of > organization he entitled (I did > notice that Amazon was offering it at a $ 100 plus > price tag, so that was out as far as I am concerned). > (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:18:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces, verton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I think I have it. Take a triangle. Draw another smaller > triangle on it by > connecting the mid-points of the first triangle's edges. > Draw a third > triangle by connecting the mid-points of the second > triangle. > > Now, pinch the points of the first triangle so that its > start to roll into > cylinders. We end up with three distinct surfaces. The > smallest center > triangle is perfectly flat. The area inside the second > triangle and outside > the smallest triangle is cylindrical. The area inside the > biggest triangle > and outside the other triangles is conical. > > This is continuous developable surface which includes > flat, cylindrical and > conical surfaces. This is the surface of the verton. > > I do not think there are two meanings of developable, at > least, I hope not! > Flat is flat. > > Dick > > > > > > >At 09:06 PM 10/18/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >>Kirby-Here is another surface similar to the verton. > This page claims the > >>"grail" IS a developable surface. What do you think? > >> > >>http://math.smith.edu/~callahan/grail.html > >> > >>Dick > > > > > >Is there more than one meaning of "developable"? Here > it means: > >tangent planes to the surface at all points along a > given line > >are the same. Is this the same as "can be unfolded > onto the > >plane without stretching or tearing." I don't see that > they > >are. > > > >If there's more than one meaning, then I suppose it's > easy to > >get confused when talking about developable surfaces. > > > >Kirby > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:21:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <3BCF8C35.4060309@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thank you very much, oh membrane-dome one. Cool. See re:surfaces,verton post. --- Steve Miller wrote: > Yes. > > dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM wrote: > > > Lete's ask Steve about plydome vertexes. > > > > Steve, do the conical caps you add at the vertexes on > your > > plydome CONFORM, or blend into, the plywood sheet > without > > wrinkles? > > > > Dick > > --- Brian Hutchings > > > wrote: > > > >><> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin > >>17-OCT-2001 14:09 > >> r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > >> > >> plydomes are by definition ruled > >> --if a cylinder is-- > >> they are stricly within the family of polyhedral > shapes > >> (with cylindrical bendings), > >> not this "randomvertonic" stuff. > >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:16:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 20-OCT-2001 8:16 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us monsieur Miller only said "Yes" to your doubled-up query; in other word, Duh! as for your say-so about tweaking a single trigon, a) it does'nt'sound too correct, to me (why'd anything be conical, without specifically makin it, so?) b) it's not attached to anything, so says nothing, c) it's what I'd noted a week or two ago! thus quoth > I think I have it. Take a triangle. Draw another smaller > triangle on it by > connecting the mid-points of the first triangle's edges. > Draw a third > triangle by connecting the mid-points of the second > triangle. > > Now, pinch the points of the first triangle so that its > start to roll into > cylinders. We end up with three distinct surfaces. The > smallest center > triangle is perfectly flat. The area inside the second > triangle and outside > the smallest triangle is cylindrical. The area inside the > biggest triangle > and outside the other triangles is conical. > > This is continuous developable surface which includes > flat, cylindrical and > conical surfaces. This is the surface of the verton. > > I do not think there are two meanings of developable, at > least, I hope not! > Flat is flat. --Prenatal Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:38:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: PEN Weekly NewsBlast for October 16, 2001 <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 20-OCT-2001 8:38 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this issue of the "PEN Newsblast" seems a bit of a bellweather, in terms of the public/private divide in the curriculum. I'm sending it to both of my mail-lists, because of the clear portent of the Carnegie/Gates combine toward "education automation," as Bucky Fuller called it -- without ever telling us of his own, qua-Classical "prepatory" at Milton Academy (www.milton.edu). so, please subscribe to it, so that I don't mess the lcak of formatting, "up!" thus quoth: ARE CHEERLEADER ROUTINES TOO LEWD? Are high-school cheerleaders mixing too much raunch with their rah-rah? This new RAND report focuses on questions relating to three broad areas: 1. Who are the private givers to public education? 2. How do schools and districts attract private support--through school-based organizations or through school and district personnel--and what mechanisms do schools and districts use to attract private resources? 3. What types of support are provided, and how are the contributions used? http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1429/MR1429.sum.html well, there's nothing like a bit o'T&A in the parental advisory; eh? --Prenatal Advisory! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:43:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: New FEMA Manual <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 20-OCT-2001 8:43 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us good sitation (sik) for the Dome on the Range! thus quoth: The (USA) Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) published in July = 2000 a guidance manual (FEMA 361) for engineers, architects, building = officials, and prospective shelter owners entitled _Design and = Construction Guidance for Community Shelters_. It declares that = structures strong enough to survive tornadoes & hurricanes can actually = be built. It goes on to describe how such buildings should be designed = such as continuous load paths & minimizing sharp angles, corners, and = large flat surfaces. It would seem to me that a properly designed = geodesic dome would meet all these design criteria. For further = information see: http://www.fema.gov/mit/FEMA361.htm=20 --Prenatal Advisory! >> http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 15:34:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200110201516.f9KFGJ227465@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > monsieur Miller only said "Yes" to your doubled-up > query; > in other word, Duh! Read the query again, Brian. here it is. > Steve, do the conical caps you add at the vertexes on your > plydome CONFORM, or blend into, the plywood sheet without > wrinkles? He says yes, it is DOES conform to the curves in the plywood without wrinkling. The "or blends into" in the sentence just reiterates the meaning of the word conform. See? It is not a 'duh.' > > as for your say-so about tweaking a single trigon, a) > it does'nt'sound too correct, to me (why'd anything be > conical, > without specifically makin it, so?) It is made so by pinching the corners. b) > it's not attached to anything, so says nothing, The edges are straight lines. They will attach to any other straight line, as in another triverton. Four half-trivertons(trigons) make one tetraverton. More pictures coming. c) > it's what I'd noted a week or two ago! What did you note exactly? > thus quoth > > I think I have it. Take a triangle. Draw another > smaller > > triangle on it by > > connecting the mid-points of the first triangle's > edges. > > Draw a third > > triangle by connecting the mid-points of the second > > triangle. > > > > Now, pinch the points of the first triangle so that > its > > start to roll into > > cylinders. We end up with three distinct surfaces. > The > > smallest center > > triangle is perfectly flat. The area inside the > second > > triangle and outside > > the smallest triangle is cylindrical. The area inside > the > > biggest triangle > > and outside the other triangles is conical. > > > > This is continuous developable surface which includes > > flat, cylindrical and > > conical surfaces. This is the surface of the verton. > > > > I do not think there are two meanings of developable, > at > > least, I hope not! > > Flat is flat. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:40:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: geodesic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The conical sheets fit smoothly into the form of the plydome. They are a continuation of the plydome's geodesic form. No wrinkles, no tucks.I thought yes was a direct way to answer the question, Mr Mxyzptlk. r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 20-OCT-2001 8:16 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > monsieur Miller only said "Yes" to your doubled-up query; > in other word, Duh! > as for your say-so about tweaking a single trigon, a) > it does'nt'sound too correct, to me (why'd anything be conical, > without specifically makin it, so?) b) > it's not attached to anything, so says nothing, c) > it's what I'd noted a week or two ago! > > thus quoth > > I think I have it. Take a triangle. Draw another smaller > > triangle on it by > > connecting the mid-points of the first triangle's edges. > > Draw a third > > triangle by connecting the mid-points of the second > > triangle. > > > > Now, pinch the points of the first triangle so that its > > start to roll into > > cylinders. We end up with three distinct surfaces. The > > smallest center > > triangle is perfectly flat. The area inside the second > > triangle and outside > > the smallest triangle is cylindrical. The area inside the > > biggest triangle > > and outside the other triangles is conical. > > > > This is continuous developable surface which includes > > flat, cylindrical and > > conical surfaces. This is the surface of the verton. > > > > I do not think there are two meanings of developable, at > > least, I hope not! > > Flat is flat. > > --Prenatal Advisory! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:14:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 20-OCT-2001 9:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is not very convincing, herr doktor-professor Midnite Toker! maybe, you can phrase your "yes" in terms that both "Dick" and I can grok, as showable on a model. so, these are "conical" inserts between the cylindrical "induced strutting" of the plywood?... as you know, any off-axis (or not-perpendicular to it) cuts of a cylinder are elliptical, just as with cones. herr "Dick" shoul probably do a *lot* more of models, before he sticks his Foote in his mouth, again & again! thus quoth: The conical sheets fit smoothly into the form of the plydome. They are a continuation of the plydome's geodesic form. No wrinkles, no tucks.I thought yes was a direct way to answer the question, Mr Mxyzptlk. --Prenatal Advisory! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:19:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 20-OCT-2001 9:19 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, "conformal" has a specific meaning in mapping, so that I thought that it was different from "blend," what ever that was supposed to mean. now, if one looks at the elliptical cross-sections of the cylindrical bends, one knows what one has to "deal" with (it's *more* than half o'the deck .-) thus quoth: > Steve, do the conical caps you add at the vertexes on your > plydome CONFORM, or blend into, the plywood sheet without > wrinkles? He says yes, it is DOES conform to the curves in the plywood without wrinkling. The "or blends into" in the sentence just reiterates the meaning of the word conform. See? It is not a 'duh.' --Banned by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) at UCLA! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/James.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:06:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: geodesic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit look at <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 20-OCT-2001 9:14 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > this is not very convincing, herr doktor-professor Midnite Toker! > maybe, you can phrase your "yes" in terms > that both "Dick" and I can grok, as showable on a model. > > so, these are "conical" inserts between the cylindrical "induced > strutting" of the plywood?... as you know, > any off-axis (or not-perpendicular to it) cuts > of a cylinder are elliptical, just as with cones. > > herr "Dick" shoul probably do a *lot* more of models, > before he sticks his Foote in his mouth, again & again! > > thus quoth: > The conical sheets fit smoothly into the form of the plydome. They > are a continuation of the plydome's geodesic form. No wrinkles, no > tucks.I thought yes was a direct way to answer the question, Mr Mxyzptlk. > > --Prenatal Advisory! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:58:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200110201614.f9KGEhi27720@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > maybe, you can phrase your "yes" in terms > that both "Dick" and I can grok, I grok "yes" just fine > > herr "Dick" shoul probably do a *lot* more of models, > before he sticks his Foote in his mouth, again & again! > > Odd you ask for models?! You don't make them much yourself, though, you said. But regardless, your scepticism has made me look very closely at what I have. I am getting clearer all the time on how to describe a verton. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 09:23:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 21-OCT-2001 9:23 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I get a URL NotFound. thus quoth: look at Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: geodesic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Brian Hutchings wrote: ><> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 21-OCT-2001 9:23 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I get a URL NotFound. > > thus quoth: > look at and say KLTPZYXM! > > --Banned by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) at UCLA! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/James.html >It should have been -- Steve Miller http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:17:49 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Hofstra Health Dome Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2 color pics of the Hofstra Center for Fitness & Health dome, Hofstra = University, Hempstead, NY http://www.starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A1260AB.HTM =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:33:57 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Wong Dissertation Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The dissertation of Yunn Chii Wong is now available on the Internet (see = below). =20 Hard copies can also be ordered from MIT libraries. https://libraries.mit.edu/docs/index.html It is entitled: The Geodesic Works of Richard Buckminster Fuller, 1948-68 (The Universe = as a Home of Man) Volume 1 is 552 pages; Volume 2 is 425 pages. Vol 2 is the appendix & = has tons of pictures. http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Describe/0018.mit.theses/1999-159 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:38:18 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: Dome for sale, flooring? Comments: To: Zot O'Connor Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Zot, I haven't actually built a full-scale geodesic dome residence (I've built models). I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to the DomeHome list which has people with the kind of experience you're looking for. ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zot O'Connor" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 3:00 AM Subject: Dome for sale, flooring? > I am curious, what did you do for flooring? I am looking at using this > for a temporary dome while we build a wooden one. I am trying to figure > out how permanent the flooring needs to be.... > > Thanks. > -- > Zot O'Connor > > http://www.ZotConsulting.com > http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:45:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Somewhere in this thread is a geodesic algorithm or method to the problem of flattening-out highly undulation surfaces. Below is an example of the problem. http://www.ima.umn.edu/multimedia/mmlogo.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:48:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More on the problem of flattening undulating surfaces. http://www.math.fsu.edu/~mhurdal/posters/hbm99math.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:51:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Conformal Surfaces Two surfaces are said to be conformal if there exists an angle-preserving map between them." http://www.math.hmc.edu/faculty/gu/curves_and_surfaces/surfaces/_geometry.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:42:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 22-OCT-2001 9:42 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us angle-preserving mapPING between them. thus quoth: Two surfaces are said to be conformal if there exists an angle-preserving map between them." http://www.math.hmc.edu/faculty/gu/curves_and_surfaces/surfaces/_geometry .html --les ducs d'Enron! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:01:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 22-OCT-2001 10:01 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I don't get it. thus quoth: >It should have been :i l ?http://www.sassafraswilds.net/domehome/stevemiller/plydome11.htm ? ?--Banned by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) at UCLA! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/James.html? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:05:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] WSJ Article <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 22-OCT-2001 10:05 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us the idea that these oil-interests are "the USA's" is juvenile. there was an op-ed in Sunday's LATimes, not only covering the Gillaspie fiasco re Kuwait, and the taking-down of Mossegedah (sp.?) -- but it said that it was "MI6 and the CIA," not just the USA! same as it ever was? thus quoth: But the US installed and supported the Shah of Iran to maintain oil --Banned by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) at UCLA! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/James.html? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:27:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 22-OCT-2001 10:27 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us SUBJECT: Re: surfaces MESSAGE from ="List 18-OCT-20 11:14 <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 18-OCT-2001 11:02 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us by the way, thanks to "Dick" and his hodge-podge of serfings, I've got a few new links on my _S_ page for geometry, like the following *re* James B. -- and sorry about the background, but I may be able to tone it down, for further use -- http://quincy4board.homestead.com/James.html "Neither gnarly wave, nor read tide, nor hungry lawyer-sharks, nor especially Arabs-who-should-all-be-brought-to-Mecca- for-a-good-nuking, shall stop us from defining Randomes with Vertons on the net!" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:34:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Energy and terrorism and Congress <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 22-OCT-2001 10:34 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us as a perfect example of the media one-sidedness on climate change (being a euphamism for "global" warming), see the current Sci.Am., with a short interview/criticism of a guy who actually wrote a chapter of the IPCC report. and, how about those new glaciers on the Continental Divide, girls & boys?... anyway, this guy acutally already agrees with most of the "findings;" why didn't they use docor S.Fred Singer ... with his historical research into glaciers? thus quoth: The following is the second part of a statement that I submitted to Senator Specter at a Town Meeting I attended with him on 10/21/01. The first part was based on the religious response to climate change. --Prenatal Advisory! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:45:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 22-OCT-2001 10:45 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us here's the nub: two cylinders can NOT intersect in any way that you describe, that is in one piece of real material, unless you are referring to *waves* in a liquid one. this entire technology is an absurdity of your daffynition! this is entirely clear, just from your teeny pix! it doesn't exist, and you probably don't, either, "Trickiest." thus quoth: flat. There are no conical surfaces in a verton. They are all cylindrical, but they are intersecting non-uniform cylindrical surfaces. The fortune cookie and the three corner hat are examples of this surface. For the record, I did not find monsieur Petit's web pages until more than a year into this subject. I first realized how a randome/verton "worked" in February 2000, while stapling paper plates together. ** yours, geodesi-jerk! --Blocked by ROBOCENSOR (CyberPatrol (tm)) at UCLA! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 07:45:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200110221701.f9MH1C403985@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brain, you may be familiar with the plydome. Its vertexes are at a point in space where the extended "induced strut" edges meet. Conical sheets can be used to enclose these holes. They conform to the surfaces of the plywood around the hole. > I don't get it. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:17:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200110221745.f9MHjNQ04375@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > here's the nub: > two cylinders can NOT intersect in any way that you > describe, > that is in one piece of real material, > unless you are referring to *waves* in a liquid one. > this entire technology is an absurdity of your > daffynition! > this is entirely clear, just from your teeny pix! Sorry, you are mystaking here. If you spend a few minutes making a model out of even paper, you can see for yourself. A cone and a cylinder don't intersect, but they do join at their edges. Just look closely at the plydome. It is there!!!! > > it doesn't exist, and you probably don't, either, > "Trickiest." "IT" exists and so do I. I guess you realize I am not joking by now!!! Two cylinders DO intersect in this way, like the fortune cookie and the three cornered hat. Cylinders can end and a cone can begin, so technically you are correct. There is no intersection between a cone and a cylinder, but they join together smoothly. It is a little tricky to grasp, I admit. How can a perfectly flat surface bend without stretching or tearing into a ball. It happens because the conical vertexes allow for double-curvature. I think it has something to do with singularity, whatever that is! > > thus quoth: > flat. There are no conical surfaces in a verton. This is a mystake of mine. Vertons do have conical surfaces. AND cylindrical and AND flat. The dystinction between a cylinder and a cone is this: a cylinder is a special case of the cone. It is a cone of "infinite" height. They > are > all cylindrical, Wrong, Dick. but they are intersecting non-uniform > cylindrical surfaces. Non-uniform cylinder is wrong too, because a cylinder does not mean only circular-base cylinders. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:43:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110221745.f9MHjNQ04375@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > here's the nub: > two cylinders can NOT intersect in any way that you > describe, > that is in one piece of real material, > unless you are referring to *waves* in a liquid one. > this entire technology is an absurdity of your > daffynition! Check out this picture: http://www.bfi.org/slideshtml/imag0069.htm It shows very clearly how three cylindrical surfaces bend nicely into a conical surface. What's the problem, "Brian"? "Dick" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:49:00 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: Updated Web Site.. Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony, Thank you for sending me the link to your paper. I haven't had a chance to sit down in my LazyBoy and go over your paper in detail; I just finished printing it out (60 pages). But I do have a few purely mechanical comments: 1) You need a numbering system--maybe as in _Synergetics_? Since there are no page numbers, it's difficult to refer to a particular paragraph or sentence. 2) Since the Internet is a graphical medium, I suggest more color and graphics. 3) Chord factors is misspelled as "Cord". 4) In the "Construction" section of the TOC, the sections are not linked to the appropriate pages, and "Panel Systems" is out of order. 5) Appendix is missing. 6) No copyright notice. 7) In the "Tensegrity Structuring" section the link goes back to "Drawing a Grid Diagram" instead of forward to "Appendix". Other than these petty flaws it is an excellent paper which shows that you have spent a great deal of time studying and writing. Bucky would be delighted! Joe ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Kalenak" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: Updated Web Site.. > I have updated my Geodesic Dome paper ... though it is still a work in > progress. > > I welcome you comments. > > http://geodesemetry.cjb.net > > Tony. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:53:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 23-OCT-2001 5:53 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us listen, you phoney-balogna Mainer, what http://www.bfi.org/slideshtml/imag0069.htm "shows," clearly, is a NO-CONE or a vertexial windrow; otherwise, how can you get those THREE INDUCED CYLINDERS to meet "smoothly" -- and we can take "cylinder" to be its most generic, non-quadric form, if you wish -- without the patent singularities that are there? maybe, though, you could get a grant from Dixie Cup, to get people to blow-away a ton o'paper plates in their efforts at "modelling!" get the definition of shinola, down, before you smear us with more o'your ****, Trickiest. thus quoth: Check out this picture: http://www.bfi.org/slideshtml/imag0069.htm It shows very clearly how three cylindrical surfaces bend nicely into a conical surface. What's the problem, "Brian"? --Banned by ROBOCENSOR! HTTP://quincy4board.homestead.com/DIE_HARRY_POTTER_DIE.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:14:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] More on energy and terrorism <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 23-OCT-2001 6:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us look at the UNSCEAR 2000 Report on Chernobyl, and then laugh at the hysteria over TMI, especially. McGibben's thing was beset with the usual "LNT" paradigm, wothout so-much as going into dosemetry (it was in the LATimes, two). thus quoth: It's a happy coincidence that clean power is also secure power. The sooner we get to work on it, the sooner we'll be able to cross one item off our list of worries. Bill McKibben, the author of "The End of Nature" (Anchor, 1999), is a visiting scholar at Middlebury --Banned by ROBOCENSOR! >HTTP://quincy4board.homestead.com/DIE_HARRY_POTTER_DIE.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:18:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 23-OCT-2001 6:18 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you're mixing apples, oranges & lemons. a fortuce cookie is made from flexible dough, and a "three-cornered hat" is made from cloth, with gores taken-out and excess left in. thuw quoth: Two cylinders DO intersect in this way, like the fortune cookie and the three cornered hat. Cylinders can end and a cone can begin, so technically you are correct. There is no intersection between a cone and a cylinder, but they join together smoothly. It is a little tricky to grasp, I admit. How can a perfectly flat surface bend without stretching or tearing into a ball. It happens because the conical vertexes allow for double-curvature. I think it has something to do with singularity, whatever that is! >--Banned by ROBOCENSOR! >HTTP://quincy4board.homestead.com/DIE_HARRY_POTTER_DIE.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:56:12 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Re: Thomas Zung to lecture on the life of Bucky Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The specific URL is http://www.dailyegyptian.com/fall01/10-23-01/dome.html ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:54 PM Subject: Thomas Zung to lecture on the life of Bucky > From: "Bradley E. Rogers" > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:29:59 -0500 > > Thomas Zung will be on campus at SIU Carbondale Thursday at 7. The > following page will lead to the article on his visit. > > http://www.dailyegyptian.com/fall01/10-23-01/ > > Brad Rogers > DPA > AIS > SIU > Carbondale, IL> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:03:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200110231253.f9NCrvg09201@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > listen, you phoney-balogna Mainer, > what http://www.bfi.org/slideshtml/imag0069.htm "shows," > clearly, is a NO-CONE or a vertexial windrow; otherwise, > how can you get those THREE INDUCED CYLINDERS > to meet "smoothly" -- and > we can take "cylinder" to be its most generic, > non-quadric form, > if you wish -- without the patent singularities that are > there? I thought you would be able to SEE that the conical surface IS there, even though its vertex is "missing". I overestimate your mathematical imaging c apabilities. Look again, you blockhead. Take a knife, in you mind(?), and slice off the two feet of plywood closest to the "missing" vertex. That would be a circular cut. Can you not SEE that you have cut off from the dome a frustum???????????? Maybe we should ask the audience for a vote. "frus·tum (frstm) n. Mathematics pl. frus·tums or frus·ta (-t) The part of a solid, such as a cone or pyramid, between two parallel planes cutting the solid, especially the section between the base and a plane parallel to the base." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:12:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200110231318.f9NDI3509411@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I can just as easily make a fortune cookie or a three-corner hat out of sheet metal, paper, or other rigidly flexible material. Use your imagination, or is it all rusted shut? > > you're mixing apples, oranges & lemons. > a fortuce cookie is made from flexible dough, and > a "three-cornered hat" is made from cloth, > with gores taken-out and excess left in. > > thuw quoth: Two cylinders DO intersect in this way, like > the fortune > cookie and the three cornered hat. Cylinders can end > and a > cone can begin, so technically you are correct. There > is no > intersection between a cone and a cylinder, but they > join > together smoothly. It is a little tricky to grasp, I > admit. > How can a perfectly flat surface bend without > stretching or > tearing into a ball. It happens because the conical > vertexes allow for double-curvature. I think it has > something to do with singularity, whatever that is! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:30:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nice javaview of Whitney Umbrella, another developable(zero Guassian curvature) surface. http://www-irm.mathematik.hu-berlin.de/~pflaum/visualization/html/node2.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:43:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More on developable(flat) surfaces. Conical edge of Wallis http://www.math.harvard.edu/preceptor/surfaces/wallis.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:48:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here it is. The half-tetraverton. Thank you, Harvard. http://www.math.harvard.edu/preceptor/surfaces/cos.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 17:06:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tooth paste tube surface. http://perso.club-internet.fr/rferreol/encyclopedie/surfaces/coinconic/coinconic.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:43:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A new addition to the verton gallery. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=71 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:24:53 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ahhhh, maybe this works. Scratch last trifold post. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=72 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:34:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Third attempt. This looks right. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=73 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:05:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: e <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 25-OCT-2001 8:05 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ah, if a tree is butchered in the forest, and Jim Booth is not there to personally supervise the sustainable yeild, it doth not happen! here, for the unpteenth time, is the "Thyroid Strom" chapter from the first-ever unauthorized bio. of Sir George Bush: http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm thus quoth: If Nick has evidence for his "crecible case" that the USA "provoked Saddam to invade Kuwait", I would like to see it. Ramsey Clark's makes powerful opening statements about what his evidence proves, but, after presentation he hasn't convinced anyway who wasn't a true believer to start with. His conclusions about the causality of Iraq's invasion is especially suspect and are not widely shared. Specifically, the statements of USA State Department representative April Gillespie to Saddam have been extensively studied and virtually everyone reached a different conclusion than Ramsey Clark. Atty. Clark also represented an associate of both of the authors, who was a political prisoner of the Original Georgian; so, there. --ParentL Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:35:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Looking for Monolithic dome info in Quebec Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oggie, Don't know the answer to your question, but you might try looking in my = dome manufacturers collection; see: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm (scroll down to "Dome Manufacturers") =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Oggie Oglethorpe" wrote in message = news:miZB7.46492$Z2.703877@nnrp1.uunet.ca... Anyone who knows where I could find resources for manufacturers or = contractors in the Montreal Quebec region - would be most appreciated. Oggie. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 06:49:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I had a little trouble getting this on but it might be okay now. Sorry about that. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=74 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 07:15:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Very cool graphics, geodesics. http://new.math.uiuc.edu/optiverse/images.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 07:25:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Quick Time movie, worth the download. http://new.math.uiuc.edu/optiverse/qt/s12.qt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:36:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: tetrahelix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.soum.co.jp/mito/johokuchu/johokuchu2.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:46:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Some stuff of folding paper into volumes. "You may like this problem, We buy tea in square paper bags. These are sealed around all four edges. The question is what is the maximum volume that can be contained?" "Cute problem -- one that forces me to question my usual assumptions. I've also seen Mylar baloons made like this. I'm not sure there is a smooth surface formed by two squares sealed at the edges, containing a nonzero volume, but of course you didn't say it had to be smooth. You can fill each of the four corners out into a circular cone, but then it seems like you need some kind of crumpling in the middle of each square to get it to match up with the cones, and I don't understand what that part should look like. Do you have a solution?" http://maths.newcastle.edu.au/~andrew/teabag/ http://www1.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/junkyard/teabag.html http://www.sgi.com/grafica/huffman/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:20:28 -0700 Reply-To: Joe S Moore Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: [Retired] Subject: Wichita House Exhibit Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Dymaxion (Wichita) House exhibit at the Henry Ford Museum is now = open! See: http://www.hfmgv.org/dymaxion/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joemoore@qwest.net http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 03:40:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] New Yorker Article October 10 <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 27-OCT-2001 3:40 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us which 'WAND' office, the D.C. one, the Philly one, the Santa Monica one, or one of the European ones?... as you know, WAND has 3 very recent directors on the Cabinet, which has been amply reflected in the energy policies, thus far (and I certainly include this newfound assault upon any OPEC signatories of the Protocol of the Elders of Kyoto (sic .-)) thus quoth: to September 11. RAND is consulting with the Administration on post-September 11 strategy, so the interview sounds like it was a little bizarre, but it is clear that the RAND Corporation (the RAND Corporation?!!! the same RAND Corporation that used to plan nuclear strategies?!!! Oh my ears and whiskers.) has significant doubts about the current military action. Their --Parental Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html oh; you corrected it to be the Oct.29 New Yawker. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:02:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Homestead.gov? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 27-OCT-2001 8:02 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops. SUBJECT: [Quaker-P] Homestead.gov? MESSAGE from =r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.u 27-OCT-20 8:00 <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 27-OCT-2001 7:24 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us here's what I was going to say. I guess that there is some joker at Homestead.com who is messing with my ****, or just my website. this clown may have sent my URL to RoboCensor (CyberPatrol (tm)), so that clients of it, like UCLA, would ban it (or, that came from within UCLA PoliSci Dept., or what ever). I have also found that Mac terminals really mess it "up," as far as legibility goes, but it also made it impossible to click on my first "navigating" button. this was found at two different places, the latter of which (I'm told) would tend to have the latest upgrades, although Mac tends to lag on some o'that, supposedly, in the PC-centric universe. I'll have to post a note with this regard, on my site. --Parental Advisory! > >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:03:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 27-OCT-2001 8:03 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops. <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 27-OCT-2001 7:16 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is really groovy. truly, it is said, no-one knows that you're a dog, online ... nor how "experienced" you are, the dimensions of ones genitalia, and so on down the line of one's Personal Universe ... unless, of course, one is a corporate entity "whose" cookies are collecting that stuff, or some sort of spy or other! sersiously, now I know, what's it like to "trip up" on LSD, with this virtual cornucopia of geometrical stuff from "Dick." not that any of it has to do with his alleged technology of "three-cornered hats & fortune cookies" -- is that psychodelic, or, What? -- butt, it'd be really nice, if you, "Dick o'Maine," would bother to arrange this stuff in a menu of some sort for our clicking pleasure. like, I really liked the one with the "eversions" and so forth. and, some day, in the Aquarian (Trekkian) Future, you could actually say some thing about it! thus quoth: Ahhhh, maybe this works. Scratch last trifold post. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPho to &Phot oID=72 --Parental Advisory! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:04:49 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Need information <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 29-OCT-2001 6:04 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this also covers "Lower Taxes for the Rich" and "Corporations in control?" -- if not the same things. so, which _The Unauthorized Bio. of [Sir?] G. [H. (?) W.] Bush_ are you referring to, or which of the two published in '92, or of the additional one of'92, _Chameleon_, in ref. to Guatemala? (of course, the reference to Sir George must include the faults of the U.N.'s role in Gualtemala, an not just pertaining to the Georgian's Ambassadorship thereat; eh ?-) here's where the best one is "up," as far as I know: htttep://www.tarpley.net thus quoth: it doesn't mention bombs directly, as far as I can see with my cursory inspection, but it's mostly from the CIA's own records and that may be deleted. Also There are several references to Guatemala in the Unauthorized biography of George Bush. Also in the "Secret Team" and THE CONQUEST OF THE AMAZON: NELSON ROCKEFELLER AND EVANGELISM IN THE AGE OF OIL. NEW YORK: HARPERCOLLINS, 1995. 960 PAGES.. haven't read the thing myself, but it's in a bibliography of something thus quoth: Cynics tell us that big corporations basically bought themselves a government that will serve their interests. They may be right. thus quoth: http://www.nowto.org/summit/ The US is the lead player in the ravaging global corporate enterprise. As US activists, we have a particular responsibility to arrest, disarm, and dissipate the corporate state and its impact on our lives and our planet. Over the past few years we have begun to challenge this corporate coup alongside an unprecedented global peoples' movement. However, we are nowhere near building the kind of world we envision-- and, worse yet, we now face a US militarization that promises a permanent state of war. and, I think, those are the "movement" of Jacobins, that confuse globalization or imperialism with nationalism or republicanism; alas! --Parental Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:09:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 29-OCT-2001 6:09 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this one isn't working, either. if you can't say any thing of interest, you are barking up the wrong tree, hereat. so, are you a pi bull, a xihuahua, or som horrible hybrid mutation between them? thus quoth: A new addition to the verton gallery. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto &Phot oID=71 all hail the Vertonoshpere! --Parental Advisory! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:10:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 29-OCT-2001 6:10 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this one isn't working, either. if you can't say any thing of interest, you are barking up the wrong tree, hereat. so, are you a pi bull, a xihuahua, or som horrible hybrid mutation between them? thus quoth: A new addition to the verton gallery. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto &Phot oID=71 all hail the Vertonoshpere! --Parental Advisory! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:14:31 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 29-OCT-2001 6:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is ompossibly silly, without any comment to show that there is any possible relation between this (your apparent subjectum of the fabulous "verton") and that (what ever !-) http://perso.club-internet.fr/rferreol/encyclopedie/surfaces/coinconic/coi nconic.shtml --Parental Advisory! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:30:39 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 29-OCT-2001 6:30 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ah, and thou dos't not "get it," either! thus quoth: Brain, you may be familiar with the plydome. Its vertexes are at a point in space where the extended "induced strut" edges meet. Conical sheets can be used to enclose these holes. They conform to the surfaces of the plywood around the hole. > I don't get it. --Banned by ROBOCENSOR! > HTTP://quincy4board.homestead.com/DIE_HARRY_POTTER_DIE.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:35:30 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] WSJ Article <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 29-OCT-2001 6:35 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us is "The Economist" a reliable guide to what She has in mind for the Empi-- I mean, Commonwealth?... why do you assume, *not* in line with the "Austin Powers" of "James Bond" premise, that the CIA is Earth's biggest such agency? seeing as that BP has been the USA's #1 dystributor of gasoline & motor oil, since before the price almost doubled, you seem to be postscient! thus quoth: Not entirely juvenile. Yes, MI6 was very likely involved, but the power of Empire is switching and America is taking over. I guess going back that far, MI6 might have had a bigger hand in things on behalf of BP. I don't see it as a serious omission, but you're quite right on that detail. Do you consider the LA Times a reliable source? --Banned by ROBOCENSOR! > HTTP://quincy4board.homestead.com/DIE_HARRY_POTTER_DIE.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 02:05:58 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM Subject: US Army designing commercial war games Comments: To: Tetworld Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The U.S. Army and USC are joining forces to design commercial PC games that will be used to train the next generation of terrorist. http://www.wirednews.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47931,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:35:06 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110291414.f9TEEVD10312@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The first picture shows a pinched cylinder( see toothpaste tube later). No stretching or tearing of the material is required. I thought this was the problem we are discussing. The last picture of this page show the intersection of two frustum along a line. There is no tearing or stretching of the material here either. Conical and cylindrical surfaces intersect in different ways without distortion of the surface. That is what the verton does. The verton maybe a surface half-way between the faceted polyhedron and a sphere. That is, the surface area of the verton, and for that matter its volume, are between the that of a polyhedron with its radius measured at its vertex, and a sphere of the same diameter. Maybe, that is. > > this is ompossibly silly, without any comment > to show that there is any possible relation > between this (your apparent subjectum of the fabulous > "verton") and > that (what ever !-) > > > http://perso.club-internet.fr/rferreol/encyclopedie/surfaces/coinconic/coinconic.shtml > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:39:34 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: surfaces In-Reply-To: <200110291410.f9TEA5H10267@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This one works. Comments? http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=6 > > this one isn't working, either. > if you can't say any thing of interest, > you are barking up the wrong tree, hereat. > so, are you a pi bull, a xihuahua, or > som horrible hybrid mutation between them? > > thus quoth: > A new addition to the verton gallery. > > > > > http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto > &Phot > oID=71 > > all hail the Vertonoshpere! > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 05:21:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 30-OCT-2001 5:21 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us are you 99.44% insane?... this means nothing, using the typical definitions of these words. get some help -- or do some thing else! thus quoth: Any triangle can be "pinched" simultaneously at all three corners to create a surface which has three folds and three dystinct surfaces. The yellow area pictured here will become a conical surface. The blue area will become a cylindrical surface. The red area remains planer. A plurality of these developable, planer, curved, non-stretched, triangular surfaces can be joined together along their straight edges to construct vertons and many other structures http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto &PhotoID=74 http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=6 --Dos Equis: Why'd Scty.Stimson Nuke Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, Two? > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 05:28:29 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 30-OCT-2001 5:28 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us OK, now, we can see where a lot of your confusion arises -- at the Play Doh (tm) stage of "modelling," and way-too-many animations of "rubber-sheet geometry" (and probably including "general relativity" ones, as well !-) thus quoth: The first picture shows a pinched cylinder( see toothpaste tube later). No stretching or tearing of the material is required. I thought this was the problem we are discussing. The last picture of this page show the intersection of two frustum along a line. There is no tearing or stretching of the material here either. Conical and cylindrical surfaces intersect in different ways without distortion of the surface. That is what the verton does. The verton maybe a surface half-way between the faceted polyhedron and a sphere. That is, the surface area of the verton, and for that matter its volume, are between the that of a polyhedron with its radius measured at its vertex, and a sphere of the same diameter. Maybe, that is. > > this is ompossibly silly, without any comment > to show that there is any possible relation > between this (your apparent subjectum of the fabulous > "verton") and > that (what ever !-) > > > http://perso.club-internet.fr/rferreol/encyclopedie/surfaces/coinconic/coi nconi c.shtml way "up," deep, into the Rectal Dyslpay Unit, with journalistic metaphors of the sights, on the fly? --Dos Equis: Why'd Scty.Stimson Nuke Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, Two? > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 05:29:10 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: surfaces <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 30-OCT-2001 5:29 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us OK, now, we can see where a lot of your confusion arises -- at the Play Doh (tm) stage of "modelling," and way-too-many animations of "rubber-sheet geometry" (and probably including "general relativity" ones, as well !-) thus quoth: The first picture shows a pinched cylinder( see toothpaste tube later). No stretching or tearing of the material is required. I thought this was the problem we are discussing. The last picture of this page show the intersection of two frustum along a line. There is no tearing or stretching of the material here either. Conical and cylindrical surfaces intersect in different ways without distortion of the surface. That is what the verton does. The verton maybe a surface half-way between the faceted polyhedron and a sphere. That is, the surface area of the verton, and for that matter its volume, are between the that of a polyhedron with its radius measured at its vertex, and a sphere of the same diameter. Maybe, that is. > > this is ompossibly silly, without any comment > to show that there is any possible relation > between this (your apparent subjectum of the fabulous > "verton") and > that (what ever !-) > > > http://perso.club-internet.fr/rferreol/encyclopedie/surfaces/coinconic/coi nconi c.shtml way "up," deep, into the Rectal Dyslpay Unit, with journalistic metaphors of the sights, on the fly? --Dos Equis: Why'd Scty.Stimson Nuke Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, Two? > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 05:34:22 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: US Army designing commercial war games <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 30-OCT-2001 5:34 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us also, search for "The New Violence" article on www.larouchepub.com. thus quoth: SUBJECT: US Army designing commercial war games MESSAGE from ="List 30-OCT-20 5:14 The U.S. Army and USC are joining forces to design commercial PC games that will be used to train the next generation of terrorist. http://www.wirednews.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47931,00.html --Dos Equis: Why'd Scty.Stimson Nuke Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, Two? > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:04:44 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Siegmund Subject: It's time for Tetworld to the rescue! Comments: To: "Geodesic Listserve GEODESIC"@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear fellow Buckyites, The profoundly catastrophic events of September 11, 2001, and their subsequent global reactions and actions, have signaled, with a mind-numbing lethality, that we have reached a turning-point in our evolution as a species. We are confronted with a kind and level of terror and exposure to danger that leaves all of us defenseless and vulnerable. Centuries of competition between the "haves" and "have-nots" for the necessities of adequate life-support and the resources which provide it--have created the seedbed for the enmity and danger which now threatens all of us. The poor, wretched, desperate, dis-enfranchised, illiterate, starving and ill-nourished of our human family, now have at their disposal an arsenal of weapons and weapons-users, that effectively levels the "playing field" in the here-to-fore tacit war between the rich and poor of the world--and now provides the latter group with a loud, demanding, deadly, devastating and desperate method for expressing their sense of resentment and hatred resulting from the neglect they have suffered at the hands of the rich. Given that our global economic system is based upon a belief that the "nature" of Nature is Scarcity, i.e., that "there is not-enough-to-go-around"--it has seemed inevitable that while some would prosper, many others, would not, and could, not. In order to insure that a person, a family, a community, a nation, obtained adequate and sufficient life-support in a world with not-enough-to-go-around, we have had to struggle, one against the other, in a atmosphere of competition for scarce life-support resources (e.g., food, shelter, energy, education, health). However, there is a solution to our current problems,and the plight of the dis-enfranchised and poor--and it lies in the fact that in the 20th Century science was able to discover and demonstrate that Nature is designed for and with Sufficiency (Plenitude). Sufficiency-for-All--100% of humanity living today, and in the future. We can bring full life-support and sufficiency to everyone--providing for all-humanity the ways and means to secure adequate and sufficent, food, health, literacy, shelter, energy, communications, information, education, leisure and an ecologically healthy planet. Based upon the life's work, knowledge and vision of the late, R. Buckminster Fuller--his discovery of Cosmic Plenitude; and his concept and design for a world game to address the question of how to deploy Earth's resources and potential to the advantage of all-humanity--the Tetworld Center for Peace Through Global Gaming and its Tetworld Global Game, is dedicated to "Making the World Work for Everyone". You are cordially invited to acquaint yourself with our purpose, vision and programs. Tetworld's approach develops and provides opportunities for on-line (virtual), and localized, strategic-global-gaming utilizing a systems, or General Systems approach and strategy. Our name, Tetworld, derives from our use of the conceptual tetrahedron as the foundation of our gaming design system. Tetworld has had a presence on the internet since early 1998. You are cordially invited to visit Tetworld at: http://www.tetworld.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:52:09 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: intersecting cones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More on intersecting cones. A verton is a collection of intersecting cones. So is the plydome. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=76 http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=77 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:51:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Natural Habitat Domes Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terry, see http://www.naturalhabitatdomes.com/ ============================== Joe S Moore joemoore27@home.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:50 AM Subject: Natural Habitat Domes > From: "Terry Fletcher" > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:46:15 -0600 > > Can anyone give me any info on this company? > Thanks > Terry Fletcher > Little Rock ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 05:27:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 31-OCT-2001 5:27 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oy heil. it shows nothing of the sort. get a life herr doktor-professor Fischstichk! thus quoth: More on intersecting cones. A verton is a collection of intersecting cones. So is the plydome. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto &Phot oID=76 http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto &Phot oID=77 --Prenatal Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 05:41:32 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Terror and tyranny <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 31-OCT-2001 5:41 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us with such a goodly portion of the "jihad" rooted in the Original Georgian's campaigns (recall, also, that General Noriega rots in jail as a result of Sir George's attendance at his hearings of parole, although *he* did not kill thousands of Panamanians), is it a good idea, to ask that the President exhonerate this CREeP (or just pardon him, or what ever he should decide; he be the Man) ?? since noone has repsonded to such a salient opportunity, I'm going to threaten to leave this list, again -- at least to get mister Martin's hopes, "up!" the BBC certainly has much-more of the "other" side, partly as a function of the Empire's historical expertise in archeology & anthropology; however, it is perfectly suspect in all regards, and will most liely serve to promote the Administrations tendency to "Cabinet warfare," esp. given the folks from the 'WAND' Corp. who are in it; just check the Fall, 2000 issue of their "Weview," for confirmation of their Anlgo- "american hegemony," please. thus quoth: unbiased reporting then the US networks are providing. Fortunately two of the local PBS stations broadcast the BBC world new. The difference between the US new and the BBC is startling. There is much not even reported by the thus quoth: For those who follow this sort of thing, Sir Michael Howard's place in military history is beyond mere eminence. He is THE military historian for many of the most famous of later generations, like my personal favorite, John Keegan. His presentation of issues and use of narrative are models of how it should be done. And he can write. thus quoth: well-nigh impossible since "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". President Bush has pledged that the war will not cease so long as "anybody is terrorising established governments" and Britain's latest terrorism legislation outlaws support for groups opposing any regime, including an illegal one, with violence. well, it's about time! --Prenatal Advisory! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:15:42 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 31-OCT-2001 11:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us at last, a diagnosis that makes sense. thank you, herr doktor-professor Ficshstichk! seriously, if you think that a sextic equation "in general position" has any straight lines in it, what ever, you are sadly mistaken. true, degenerate ones can degenerate into "cones," but then they are effectively quadric surfaces; that is, they are modelled by quadratic eqations, being of 2nd degree ("sextic" are of 6th degree). all of this say-so of yours doesn't amount to ****, or Shinola (tm). I've studied quadric surfaces for a decade or two, even if I'm not an expert; so, there, Your Obsequiousness: no one has come to your aid, and no one will, on this silly matter. thus quoth: Brian, I can come to no other conclusion than that you do not comprehend the very simple concept of intersecting cones because of some mental defect. No offence. What is your disability exactly, anyway? schiz7o7phre7ni7a (skts-frn-, -frn-) n. Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized --Prenatal Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:16:09 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: mental health <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 31-OCT-2001 11:16 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us at last, a diagnosis that makes sense. thank you, herr doktor-professor Ficshstichk! seriously, if you think that a sextic equation "in general position" has any straight lines in it, what ever, you are sadly mistaken. true, degenerate ones can degenerate into "cones," but then they are effectively quadric surfaces; that is, they are modelled by quadratic eqations, being of 2nd degree ("sextic" are of 6th degree). all of this say-so of yours doesn't amount to ****, or Shinola (tm). I've studied quadric surfaces for a decade or two, even if I'm not an expert; so, there, Your Obsequiousness: no one has come to your aid, and no one will, on this silly matter. thus quoth: Brian, I can come to no other conclusion than that you do not comprehend the very simple concept of intersecting cones because of some mental defect. No offence. What is your disability exactly, anyway? schiz7o7phre7ni7a (skts-frn-, -frn-) n. Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized --Prenatal Advisory! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/die_harry_potter_die.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:17:26 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: mental health <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 31-OCT-2001 11:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us SUBJECT: Re: geodesic MESSAGE from ="List 15-SEP-20 8:23 <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 15-SEP-2001 8:19 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us thus far, we have this hypothesis: "Dick" engenedered an entire (supposed) technology upon the flap-doodle assertion of one monsieur Petit, without any justicification behind it, at all (but the thing about the total solid angle was a pretty-good mystaque .-) Petit's expertise in hydrodynamics'd certainly allow him to apply a criticl analysis to his idea, but the "intrinsic geometry" of curvature is, as far as my limited scan of this math knoweth, probably hidden in the formalisms of differential geometry. so, it is neither here, nor there, or where. as for the "prototype," to avoid any recriminations, let us just be told of Dick's actual, given name a facsimile of a birth certificate will do, or of a drivers license -- if it isn't used in any future pro- or anti- "islamic" acts of horror! --Dos Equis: Why'd Scty.Stimson Nuke Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, Two? > > http://quincy4council.homestead.com/WTC.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:58:52 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: mental health <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings -- testin 31-OCT-2001 11:58 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us --a Thousand and Six Knights! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/1006knights.html