From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 15 10:28:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i5FESQa6008707 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:28:26 -0400 Message-Id: <200406151428.i5FESQa6008707@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 10997 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 14:28:26 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 14:28:26 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:28:26 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0208" To: Chris Fearnley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Content-Length: 361241 Lines: 9496 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:44:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Surplus Radomes Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Government surplus 55' radomes available from a company called High = Structure Maintenance in Florida: http://www.radomes.com/Radome/About.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:00:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. 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Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:11:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 01-AUG-2002 14:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us yeah, but if all of the "sides are of no degrees," what does that tell you, without further deomnstration via infinitessimals (or what ever) ?? my same definition (I gave) is not any different from the "classical" one of planar trig, as a special or "degenerate" case of spherical trig. thus quoth: Plane trig is limited to a zero degree central angle. I am unsure of your question, but will attempt an answer. The arcs on the sphere are described by degrees, which belong to the central angle. The chords are expressed as 2sin (theta/2). Even with plane trigonometry, it is all degrees. Lengths are degrees of the central angle, which is always zero. In spherical trig terms, all of plane trigonometry takes place on a single dimensionless point. my question is about what I used to call, tetrahedronometry, which is a straightforward generalization of planar trig, using the "quadrirectangular tetrah." that is well-defined in Coxeter's _Regular Polytopes_. unfortunately, although I've given plenty of clues (well, sort-of) in my paper, "Cosmometrical Constance," it seems that my site has been all-along "spoofed," such that I have no idea who has actually been able to read it, beyond my 100s of handouts at shoolboard meetings etc. this was the paper that I developed to explain a poster for a "poster session" at the local meeting of the MAA. --Signs! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 07:14:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry In-Reply-To: <3D48A6AA.6050804@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Steve Miller wrote: > Plane trig is limited to a zero degree central angle. > I am unsure of your question, but will attempt an answer. > The arcs on > the sphere are described by degrees, which belong to the > central angle. > The chords are expressed as 2sin (theta/2). > Even with plane trigonometry, it is all degrees. Lengths > are degrees of > the central angle, which is always zero. > In spherical trig terms, all of plane trigonometry takes > place on a > single dimensionless point. Steve- How many total central angle degrees are there in a spherical tet, an octa, and an icosa? Do you have these numbers? How are they related to 720? Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 13:15:48 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a central angle for each edge. Dick Fischbeck wrote: > --- Steve Miller wrote: > >>Plane trig is limited to a zero degree central angle. >>I am unsure of your question, but will attempt an answer. >>The arcs on >>the sphere are described by degrees, which belong to the >>central angle. >>The chords are expressed as 2sin (theta/2). >>Even with plane trigonometry, it is all degrees. Lengths >>are degrees of >>the central angle, which is always zero. >>In spherical trig terms, all of plane trigonometry takes >>place on a >>single dimensionless point. >> > > Steve- How many total central angle degrees are there in a > spherical tet, an octa, and an icosa? Do you have these > numbers? How are they related to 720? > > Dick > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 12:19:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: bluespin Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry In-Reply-To: <20020803141428.45837.qmail@web40306.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, I'm going to be out of country for two months. could somebody help me off the list for a time? I've tried to find the off switch to no avail so far. Scott > From: Dick Fischbeck > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 07:14:28 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry > > --- Steve Miller wrote: >> Plane trig is limited to a zero degree central angle. >> I am unsure of your question, but will attempt an answer. >> The arcs on >> the sphere are described by degrees, which belong to the >> central angle. >> The chords are expressed as 2sin (theta/2). >> Even with plane trigonometry, it is all degrees. Lengths >> are degrees of >> the central angle, which is always zero. >> In spherical trig terms, all of plane trigonometry takes >> place on a >> single dimensionless point. > > Steve- How many total central angle degrees are there in a > spherical tet, an octa, and an icosa? Do you have these > numbers? How are they related to 720? > > Dick > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 07:43:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 03-AUG-2002 7:43 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you can say that the surface of a sphere is 720 degrees (or 2pi), but your question is meaningless as stated. adding all of the central angles of measuring all of the edges (of a spherical polyhedron or polyapicon (sik)) will give you a number of degrees that is generally irrational, but is also not of much interest. what is of interest to me, although somewhat unrelated, is the number of degrees in the (planar) Otto cycle; how many degress in one cycle of a Wankel engine? thus quoth: How many total central angle degrees are there in a spherical tet, an octa, and an icosa? Do you have these --SIGNS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/SIGNS.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 08:37:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: spherical trigonometr <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 03-AUG-2002 8:37 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops; the surface is defined as 2pi "sterradians" or solid angle radians!. thus saith: > you can say that the surface of a sphere is 720 degrees (or > 2pi), but your question is meaningless as stated. > adding all of the central angles > of measuring all of the edges (of a spherical polyhedron or > polyapicon (sik)) will give you a number > of degrees that is generally irrational, but > is also not of much interest. > --SIGNS! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/SIGNS.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 20:28:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: looking for jerry fonte Comments: To: Al Rotundo Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al, Sorry, there's no Fonte in my database. I'm forwarding this reply to = two lists where there may be someone who can help you. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Rotundo=20 To: joemoore@cruzio.com=20 Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 3:44 PM Subject: looking for jerry fonte hi joe trying to reach jerrry fonte he's an audio engineer who has a geodome home in east amherst help please? al rortundo SUNY Buffalo 1980 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:25:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry In-Reply-To: <3D4C1DD4.6090808@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii So, Steve, an octa has 12-90 degree angles, or 1080 spherical degrees? A cubocta has 24-60 degree angles, or 1440 spherical degrees? A tet has 6- 120 degree angles, or 720 spherical degrees? Is this right? Dick --- Steve Miller wrote: > There is a central angle for each edge. > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > > > >>Plane trig is limited to a zero degree central angle. > >>I am unsure of your question, but will attempt an > answer. > >>The arcs on > >>the sphere are described by degrees, which belong to > the > >>central angle. > >>The chords are expressed as 2sin (theta/2). > >>Even with plane trigonometry, it is all degrees. > Lengths > >>are degrees of > >>the central angle, which is always zero. > >>In spherical trig terms, all of plane trigonometry > takes > >>place on a > >>single dimensionless point. > >> > > > > Steve- How many total central angle degrees are there > in a > > spherical tet, an octa, and an icosa? Do you have these > > numbers? How are they related to 720? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 10:05:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 04-AUG-2002 10:05 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us central angles of the edges of the reg. tetrah. are irrational, as for icosah.; having such an inventory, what does it do for you? (that is, we know about the "spherical deficit" of the superficial polygonal angles of a "sphereic," but so, What ?-) thus quoth: So, Steve, an octa has 12-90 degree angles, or 1080 spherical degrees? A cubocta has 24-60 degree angles, or 1440 spherical degrees? A tet has 6- 120 degree angles, or --SIGNS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html , ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 10:10:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: wishful thinking from fuzzy graphics <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 04-AUG-2002 10:10 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us really. and so with categorical statements about the un-PC-ness o'pi. if Brawley et al would spend more time thinking, before they type out the words --however rapidly that may be-- then this list wouldn't be clogged by these few folks. (of course, a bit of simple editting would go a long way toward that goal !-) thus quoth: Fuller made some boo boos in Synergetics (vol 1) which he sought to correct in volume 2 -- many stem from his mistaken analysis of the sphere's volume in synergetics terms. --SIGNS! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 10:15:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: odder than icosahedral, much odder <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 04-AUG-2002 10:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us if you look at my "Cosmometrical Constance" paper, you'll see that I refer to bucky's posthumous useage as a very good thing -- but I suggest alternate terminology! thus quoth: I don't have Cosmography. Following your lead into Synergetics as far as 986.711, 986.728-29 I see another wild goose chase; they say NOTHING about whether Bucky and you intend to impose a condition like "while maintaining icosahedral system" for minimizing the radius. So, after following all these irrelevant leads, I am making ZERO progress at understanding whether you want to keep the minimum radius requirement or the icosahedral system requirement. Those are incompatible requirements for general n, and you seem not to have noticed the incompatibility so you unwittingly change which particular polyhedra you want us to discuss. --SIGNS! >>http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:22:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry In-Reply-To: <200208041705.g74H5ni13634@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 109.47 degrees for the tet, times 6 edges gives us 656.8 degrees. 63.43 degrees in the icosa spherical angle, times 30 edges gives us 1902.9 spherical degrees. hmmmmm... --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings > 04-AUG-2002 10:05 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > central angles of the edges of the reg. tetrah. are > irrational, > as for icosah.; having such an inventory, > what does it do for you? (that is, > we know about the "spherical deficit" > of the superficial polygonal angles of a "sphereic," but > so, What ?-) > > thus quoth: > So, Steve, an octa has 12-90 degree angles, or 1080 > spherical degrees? A cubocta has 24-60 degree angles, > or > 1440 spherical degrees? A tet has 6- 120 degree angles, > or > > --SIGNS! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html > , __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:39:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: spherical trigonometr In-Reply-To: <200208031537.g73FbOn09499@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Except.... it is an easy way to add up all edge the lengths of a polyvertexion(verton for short, unless there is a better word. Asteron?) And in synergetics those edges are vectors/energy. So, I am interested in this method of accounting. I still am unable to read your paper. Is it only for PC users? Dick > thus saith: > > you can say that the surface of a sphere is 720 > degrees (or > > 2pi), but your question is meaningless as stated. > > adding all of the central angles > > of measuring all of the edges (of a spherical > polyhedron or > > polyapicon (sik)) will give you a number > > of degrees that is generally irrational, but > > is also not of much interest. Except.... it is an easy way to add up all edge the lengths of a polyvertexion(verton for short, unless there is a better word. Asteron?) And in synergetics those edges are vectors/energy. So, I am interested in this method of accounting. Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:06:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: spherical trig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The question is: what is the average spherical angle between vertexes for some n-polyvertexion? I am close to the answer, but not there yet. Can anyone help? Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 12:59:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: dome home photos, interior photos, more dome photos, pictures of dome homes, ph Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Econ-O-Dome has an ad for a dome home for sale in Pagosa Springs, CO, = USA: http://www.moultrie.com/~econodom/pagosadome.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:13:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: fatness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hutch- You grok this? Maybe you can summarize it for me. http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0204/0204007.pdf Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 00:35:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed not true of the tetrahedron; the central angles are ... I forget, like arctan of 2/3. of course that's related to the dihedral angle. thus quoth: >1440 spherical degrees? A tet has 6- 120 degree angles, or --Strep Throat @30; boycott Post et al (ad vom.) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:59:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: spherical trig <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 05-AUG-2002 10:59 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops. this was in reply to your unformulated stab at asking for the central angles of the edges of spherical polyhedra -- on the assumption that all of them are equal, for "n-apica" and/or n-hedra. this can ne'er be true, so why don't you learn, Why That Is; is it? <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings 05-AUG-2002 9:46 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you are asking a meanignless question, because your original "voyage" to find symmetrical "n-apica" (sik) is constrained by grouptheory -- lies everything else in geometry! --SIGNS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:00:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: fatness <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 05-AUG-2002 11:00 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops. Hutch- You grok this? Maybe you can summarize it for me. http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0204/0204007.pdf Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com - - - - - <> Brian Quincy Hutchings 05-AUG-2002 9:43 r007883@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us the library doesn't do FTP, is my guess; can you send an http, or quote? --SIGNS! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 23:13:31 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: spherical trigonometry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. Remember these are central angles. You have been working with surface angles re: 720 Dick Fischbeck wrote: > So, Steve, an octa has 12-90 degree angles, or 1080 > spherical degrees? A cubocta has 24-60 degree angles, or > 1440 spherical degrees? A tet has 6- 120 degree angles, or > 720 spherical degrees? Is this right? > > Dick > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > >>There is a central angle for each edge. >> >>Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> >> >>>--- Steve Miller wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Plane trig is limited to a zero degree central angle. >>>>I am unsure of your question, but will attempt an >>>> >>answer. >> >>>>The arcs on >>>>the sphere are described by degrees, which belong to >>>> >>the >> >>>>central angle. >>>>The chords are expressed as 2sin (theta/2). >>>>Even with plane trigonometry, it is all degrees. >>>> >>Lengths >> >>>>are degrees of >>>>the central angle, which is always zero. >>>>In spherical trig terms, all of plane trigonometry >>>> >>takes >> >>>>place on a >>>>single dimensionless point. >>>> >>>> >>>Steve- How many total central angle degrees are there >>> >>in a >> >>>spherical tet, an octa, and an icosa? Do you have these >>>numbers? How are they related to 720? >>> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 06:29:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: spherical trig In-Reply-To: <200208051759.g75HxOl21116@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A 1000*yes. I know Epcot Center has many different length struts. I also know an n-polyvertexion has different length vector edges, except for The Three. But I also know that the variation in range of edge lengths decreases as n increase. The limit case is the variation in edge lengths of the 12-5 @ 1's. Hutch, if we find the average edge length of an n-verton(short for polyvertexion), we can realistically talk about what-that-number-is. It will be unique, too. We can also talk about an n-verton whose faces are approximately equal in area. Dick > oops. this was in reply > to your unformulated stab > at asking for the central angles > of the edges of spherical polyhedra -- > on the assumption that all of them are equal, > for "n-apica" and/or n-hedra. this can ne'er be true, > so why don't you learn, > Why That Is; is it? > > <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings > 05-AUG-2002 9:46 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > you are asking a meanignless question, because > your original "voyage" to find symmetrical "n-apica" > (sik) > is constrained by grouptheory -- > lies everything else in geometry! > > --SIGNS! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2040 11:15:34 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: spherical trig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is many? I figured out the frequency once. It is a Triacon, but I don't recall the number. A 16v Triacon has 16 lengths. Dick Fischbeck wrote: > A 1000*yes. I know Epcot Center has many different length > struts. I also know an n-polyvertexion has different length > vector edges, except for The Three. > > But I also know that the variation in range of edge lengths > decreases as n increase. The limit case is the variation in > edge lengths of the 12-5 @ 1's. > > Hutch, if we find the average edge length of an > n-verton(short for polyvertexion), we can realistically > talk about what-that-number-is. It will be unique, too. We > can also talk about an n-verton whose faces are > approximately equal in area. > > Dick > > >> oops. this was in reply >> to your unformulated stab >> at asking for the central angles >> of the edges of spherical polyhedra -- >> on the assumption that all of them are equal, >> for "n-apica" and/or n-hedra. this can ne'er be true, >> so why don't you learn, >> Why That Is; is it? >> >> <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings >>05-AUG-2002 9:46 >> r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >> >> you are asking a meanignless question, because >> your original "voyage" to find symmetrical "n-apica" >>(sik) >> is constrained by grouptheory -- >> lies everything else in geometry! >> >> --SIGNS! >> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:55:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: TekCAD Dome Design Software & Model-Building Kits Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Anderson" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 2:21 PM Subject: TekCAD Release Transition Sale > A few years back, I started writing papers about geodesic structures and the > mathematics in them - you can still check them out at > http://w3.one.net/~monkey. I liked making interesting structures so much, I > got together with a few friends and started a company: TekStar International > Corporation. Starting in the Spring of 2000, I started writing TekCAD and > we're about to take it into its second release. > > We're running a special sale on our TekCAD product as we transition it to > the new release. Purchasers of the current product will get a free upgrade > to the next release plus one year of maintenance. Details on the offer are > available at www.tekstaronline.com - click on the link to the TekCAD Release > Transition Sale. > > TekCAD is computer aided design software for generating and manipulating 3D > geometry. It was introduced in May at the AIA National Convention in > Charlotte, NC. With TekCAD, you create, edit and transform structures using > an extensive set of operations, generate model-building and construction > reports, and render the structures in various static and dynamic formats > including GIF, JPG, VRML and Live3D. Structures may also be exported in DXF > and brought into traditional CAD packages for integration. The system > supports graphical, numeric, and symbolic manipulation (mathematical and > formulaic expressions are solved on-the-fly) making quick work of complex > designs. TekCAD has an event-driven user interface that lets you interact > with a structure in multiple views simultaneously. > > TekCAD focuses on handling structures that have been difficult for > architects and designers to create, including geodesics and spaceframes. The > system may be used proactively to generate new geometric ideas and create > new designs from scratch or reactively to modify or add supportive works to > existing structures. It is a flexible program that may be used in many > places throughout the design process. > > Our company also offers model-building products, TekKits, that can be used > to quickly build scale-models of your designs. Using the reports from > TekCAD, plastic struts are cut to length and joined with reusable hubs. You > can build significant models very quickly. > > Please check out the site if any of this sounds interesting to you! We also > have multi-user and educational discounts. > > -- > David J Anderson / Partner and Chief Technical Officer > TekStar International Corporation > 2859 Spyglass Cove, Longwood FL 32779 > dave@tekstaronline.com > Cell 813-546-2131 / HQ 407-865-6996 > www.tekstaronline.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:57:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: Press Request: Dome manufacturer for Germany? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:55 PM Subject: Re: Press Request: Dome manufacturer for Germany? > >Martin, > > > >I know of 2 companies: Search for Vacono and Mero. > >See my collection of dome manufacturers: > >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm > >(scroll down to "Manufacturers") > > > >Also, use the search function on the bottom of my home page (below) to > >search for items in various European countries: > >============================== > >Joe S Moore > >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > >============================= > > > >"Martin Schneider" wrote in > message > >news:aiora8$15p4gv$1@ID-119488.news.dfncis.de... > >> Hi! > >> > >> I am a Journalist from Germany, and I'm looking for a Dome (Kit?) > >> manufacturer who has a dependance or experience in Germany for a > reference > >> project. > >> > >> More, I am interested in any links that would help me for a dome > >> manufacturer in Europe! > >> > >> Thank you for your time and assistance. > >> > >> Martin > > > > > > Your message could not be processed because you are not allowed to post > messages to the list. > > For more information, you can contact the list administrator at: > > Donald R. Hoflin > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 13:43:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: linda Subject: Re: Press Request: Dome manufacturer for Germany? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Four wonderful virtual tours of a finished ODI, 39' dome in Marysville, OH www.HER Realtors.com then click to OPEN HOUSES and 12584 County Road 153. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Joe S Moore Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: Fw: Press Request: Dome manufacturer for Germany? >============================== >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >============================= > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "Joe S Moore" >Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:55 PM >Subject: Re: Press Request: Dome manufacturer for Germany? > > >> >Martin, >> > >> >I know of 2 companies: Search for Vacono and Mero. >> >See my collection of dome manufacturers: >> >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm >> >(scroll down to "Manufacturers") >> > >> >Also, use the search function on the bottom of my home page (below) to >> >search for items in various European countries: >> >============================== >> >Joe S Moore >> >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >> >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >> >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >> >============================= >> > >> >"Martin Schneider" wrote in >> message >> >news:aiora8$15p4gv$1@ID-119488.news.dfncis.de... >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >> I am a Journalist from Germany, and I'm looking for a Dome (Kit?) >> >> manufacturer who has a dependance or experience in Germany for a >> reference >> >> project. >> >> >> >> More, I am interested in any links that would help me for a dome >> >> manufacturer in Europe! >> >> >> >> Thank you for your time and assistance. >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> > >> >> Your message could not be processed because you are not allowed to post >> messages to the list. >> >> For more information, you can contact the list administrator at: >> >> Donald R. Hoflin >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 07:23:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: spherical trig <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 07-AUG-2002 7:23 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops. it's an interesting thing between "Fischbeck" and Brawley. the one appears to be stupid to the point of muteness, the other is grossly verbose. even though hypotheses are not made by deductive (or indictive) logic, the form of a hypothesis has to be stated in some recognizable variant of "iff," or the "necessity and sufficiency" of Leibniz. iff you don't have those, you have no hypothesis -- just like Newton! at least, though, we can see where "Dick" is trying to go. there isn't any reason to sum the central angles of the edges of a shape, without a useful hypothesis, such as that for the superfacial angles (Gauss-Bonnet Theorem). liekwise, there's no reason to find the "average" length of sttruts in an "n-asteron." all you know, for now, is that there will be a greater-and-greater *amount* of variations (different lengths), even if those differences are smaller. indeed, there isn't any reason, on that account, to bother with Bucky's -vertexion neologism, because the duals have the same number of edges!... of course, that is one of the mainly interesting things. PS: this was antecedent to a giant bunch o'threads on synergeo@egroups.com, which I have unsubscribed from, partly because I hate Yahoo! (tm), and partly because it was just two-much to read. PPS: Dick, I can't send to you, because you don't inlclude a sigfile (ending). --SIGNS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --g76ISB600742.1028658491/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 07:27:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: "Knight of the Economic Roundtable" (sic) <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 07-AUG-2002 7:27 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, our Chair d'El "Fed" has just been given an honor, according to the L.A.Times: he can now put "KBE" after his name, although it's just "honorary," so that he can't be called, "Sir." it says that it stands for Knight Commander of the [Holy] British Empire; as soon as he "makes his next trip to Britain, say in time for Xmas, he can henceforth be known as Kn'oBE wan Alan! does this mean that Tolkien's "Commander of the BE" is the same as Knighthood?... I'd thought it was some how better. --SIGNS! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:40:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: spherical trig In-Reply-To: <200208071423.g77EN8q06963@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > iff you don't have those, > you have no hypothesis -- just like Newton! > at least, though, > we can see where "Dick" is trying to go. Where? > > there isn't any reason to sum the central angles > of the edges of a shape, without a useful hypothesis, > such as that for the superfacial angles (Gauss-Bonnet > Theorem). > liekwise, there's no reason to find the "average" > length > of sttruts in an "n-asteron." all you know, for now, > is that there will be a greater-and-greater *amount* > of variations (different lengths), even if > those differences are smaller. Any reason that the area of all (but the last constructed one) opening/face can't be equal??? Dick > indeed, there isn't any reason, on that account, > to bother with Bucky's -vertexion neologism, because > the duals have the same number of edges!... of > course, > that is one of the mainly interesting things. Well, obviously the vertex density is different. That is , how many vertexes are there per unit area? > PPS: Dick, I can't send to you, because > you don't inlclude a sigfile (ending). I don't know what you mean. Just send it email, I'll be able to read ot. Cut and paste. How long can it be? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:06:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: spherical trig <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 07-AUG-2002 12:06 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us it's just one of those weird things; PEN doesn't give the address from this list in the header. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:10:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: spherical trig <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 07-AUG-2002 12:10 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I mean, we can at least make a *stab* at what you want, whereas Brawley is just too painful to read. (and mine me be a pain, but it's concise; si ?-) I don't know what you want, *now*, because you're making a wild stab at "equal areas," without bothering to see what that entails with the rest of your "inventory," i.e. of vertices. of course, the whole idea was ill-stated, to begin with, and you don't want to see that. thus quoth: > is that there will be a greater-and-greater *amount* > of variations (different lengths), even if > those differences are smaller. Any reason that the area of all (but the last constructed one) opening/face can't be equal??? --SIGNS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:47:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Ford Rotunda Dome Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Colored blueprint of Ford Rotunda dome (spherical octet truss) at Ronald = Feldman Fine Arts, NYC (pic is backwards--mirror image): http://www.feldmangallery.com/media/fuller/ford_01.jpg =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:44:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: raduis, area and volume of a vertexion Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We know an n-vertexion has 2(n-2) triangular openings from Euler. This is the general case because be are only saying how many triangles there are, not how big is each one. If we say 2(n-2) equals the area of a n-vertexion, and we say f-frequency equals r-radius, we can make the following substitutions: Area a=2(n-2) Number of vertexes is n=10r^2+2, from n=10f^2+2, which can be rewritten r=root[(n-2)/10] If each triangle is the base of a tet whose altitude is the radius, then v=ra, and v^2=[(n-2)/10][4(n-2)^2] Then v=root[2(n-2)^3/5] Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:09:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: linda Subject: Re: Ford Rotunda Dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, Folks might enjoy 4 virtual tours of a 39' dome in Marysville, OH on a realtor's web site. www.HER Realtors.com Click on OPEN HOUSES and the address of 12584 County Road 153. There are exterior and interior shots then four virtual tours to enjoy. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Joe S Moore Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:56 PM Subject: Ford Rotunda Dome Colored blueprint of Ford Rotunda dome (spherical octet truss) at Ronald Feldman Fine Arts, NYC (pic is backwards--mirror image): http://www.feldmangallery.com/media/fuller/ford_01.jpg ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:44:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: osaka dome Comments: To: gsroka@mmsa.com Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable gsroka, Thanks for the link to the Osaka dome in Japan! Fantastic! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: gsroka@mmsa.com=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 3:40 PM Subject: osaka dome http://www.obayashi.co.jp/english/majorworks/archi_japan/23.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:15:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Starnet Domes Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Selected domes by Starnet International, Longwood, FL, USA: http://starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A2570AB.HTM (Guadalajara, = Mexico) http://starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A2552AB.HTM (Seattle, WA, USA) http://starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A2503AB.HTM (Ankara, Turkey) http://starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A1345AB.HTM (Eureka, CA, USA) http://starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A1182AB.HTM (Denver, CO, USA) http://starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A2611AB.HTM (Santo Domingo, = Dominican Republic) http://starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A1474AB.HTM (Nassau, Bahamas) http://starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A1175AB.HTM (Tampa, FL, USA) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 00:06:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: dome home photos, interior photos, more dome photos, pictures of dome homes, ph In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit when will people understand bucky never intended domes to comprise the interior structure, only the exterior. Leif ps hi Joe no offense intended > From: Joe S Moore > Organization: (Retired) > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 12:59:54 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: dome home photos, interior photos, more dome photos, pictures of dome > homes, ph > > Econ-O-Dome has an ad for a dome home for sale in Pagosa Springs, CO, USA: > > http://www.moultrie.com/~econodom/pagosadome.htm > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:19:51 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Center for Syntropic Operations Subject: Updating the Fuller FAQ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm planning to update the Fuller FAQ in the next few months. If people could identify really good discussion threads, find your most well-polished posts, &etc., I'll review them for inclusion. PS. List GEODESIC was the genesis of the Fuller FAQ. Although with the Internet, it makes sense to be a more general FAQ now. There are so many quality web sites now, that I might consider removing some of the discussion in the FAQ for which there are better explanations in web sites. PPS. Suggestions welcome. -- Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature ... Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. -- Helen Keller Christopher J. Fearnley | Linux/Internet/Web Consulting Chris@CJFearnley.com | Design Science Revolutionary http://www.CJFearnley.com | Explorer in Universe "Dare to be Naïve" -- Bucky Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 12:03:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: spherical poly Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This may come in handy soon. But we'll have to substitute somethong for 2 pi. I wonder if 720 degrees will work in its place. Pi r^2 should equal 2(n-2)/4, which is 1/4 the area of the whole. Hmmm... They use n to equal the number of sides, so their n would equal 3(n-2) (when n is the number of vertexes), which is the number of edges in the vertexion, from Euler. Dick http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/formulas/faq.ellipsoid.html Spherical Polygon- A closed geometric figure on the surface of a sphere formed by the arcs of great circles. Radius: r S = (theta-[n-2]Pi)r2 = (alpha-180[n-2])Pi r2/180 Number of sides: n Sum of Angles: theta (in radians), alpha (in degrees) Surface area: S __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:14:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: raduis, area and volume of a vertexion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed man, I'd (for the first time in a long while) copied the whole digest of the list, and replied to a bunch *in sequentia*, and it's the only document that won't open, on 2-day-old disk. it may just go to show, I'm a hostage o'the PENitentiary and SM. anyway, Dick's words, below, are one that I was going to quote, in my note about "category theory," although Kirby already showed that it was a failed attempt at "making an isomorphism." not bad, just awry! >We know an n-vertexion has 2(n-2) triangular openings from >Euler. This is the general case because be are only saying >how many triangles there are, not how big is each one. > >If we say 2(n-2) equals the area of a n-vertexion, and we >say f-frequency equals r-radius, we can make the following >substitutions: > >Area a=2(n-2) > >Number of vertexes is n=10r^2+2, from n=10f^2+2, which can >be rewritten r=root[(n-2)/10] > >If each triangle is the base of a tet whose altitude is the >radius, > >then v=ra, > >and > >v^2=[(n-2)/10][4(n-2)^2] > >Then v=root[2(n-2)^3/5] --SIGNS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:24:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 11-AUG-2002 9:24 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us what's with the ellipsoidal thing? I don't know about the correctness of your formulae, since you didn't derive them for us (although you're assuming that these are trigonated shapes, and those do have only even numbers of facets). of course, the introduction of Pi per se makes the areas transcendental, not integral, but that is easy to acount for (say, by an appropriate choice of diameter -- and you've got to say that it's measured from vertex to vertex, if that is so, which requires central-symmetry ... and so on .-) 720 degrees is just as fine as 4pi (or 2pi 'diadians'), as long as you don't bother with the writ that "pi is a dimensionless constant (nevermind). thus quoth: somethong for 2 pi. I wonder if 720 degrees will work in its place. Pi r^2 should equal 2(n-2)/4, which is 1/4 the area of the whole. Hmmm... They use n to equal the number of sides, so their n would equal 3(n-2) (when n is the number of vertexes), which is the number of edges in the vertexion, from Euler. Dick http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/formulas/faq.ellipsoid.html Spherical Polygon- A closed geometric figure on the surface of a sphere formed by the arcs of great circles. Radius: r S = (theta-[n-2]Pi)r2 = (alpha-180[n-2])Pi r2/180 Number of sides: n Sum of Angles: theta (in radians), alpha (in degrees) Surface area: S --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:36:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: raduis, area and volume of a vertexion <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 11-AUG-2002 9:36 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I'll try to inload the corrupt file -- could you try to put it together, Lee?... unless the other file that I put on the same disk, from my site, was given a designer virus from Homestead, you should be able to, I guess -- but I'm about to be replaced at the pubsErfterm. there are some really cognizant things in the current Science and Nature, as well as some really bizaare ones in Nude Scientist and Nude Statesman (both, thoroughly British); check them out! when I do upload it (couldn't get Norton Disk Doctor to work at Kinko's, alas), I'll put it under the "New" stuff (button) on http://quincy4board.homestead.com/MiltonAcademy.html. well, HS seems to be not even allowing me to import files to my site! thus saith: man, I'd (for the first time in a long while) copied the whole digest of the list, and replied to a bunch *in sequentia*, and it's the only document that won't open, on 2-day-old disk. it may just go to show, I'm a hostage o'the PENitentiary and SM. anyway, Dick's words, below, are one that I was going to quote, in my note about "category theory," although Kirby already showed that it was a failed attempt at "making an isomorphism." not bad, just awry! --SIGNS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:42:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Air circulation/cooling Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jodi, See http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/10-EndEnergyCoolingFree.htm ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 11:04 PM Subject: Air circulation/cooling > From: "Jodi L. Iker" > Organization: DMAX, LTD. > Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:54:20 -0400 > > Does anyone remember where the info was found about cooling > a dome by having a vent in the top and vents near the floor. > This would create a natural cooling effect. I believe this > was one of Bucky's ideas. > > Thanks, > Jodi Iker > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at > http://www.hoflin.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:06:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 12-AUG-2002 8:06 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us here's a problemma for you. you're given a listing of cities with their distances between. what is the minimum number of cities and interdistances required, to dtermine the diameter of the globe? wneh can one less be used? and one less than that? any less? --SIGHnS! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html > > > --Oil Platform 2000!... > The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols > of the Elders of Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): > 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) > 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) > 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) > 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) > 21 -- OMAHA (25K) > 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) > 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) > 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) > 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:46:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 12-AUG-2002 10:46 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us the descryption given for N=8 is not correct, as far as I know. that is to say, the "two sqaures" acutally have vertices that are not quite planar (they son't satisfy the same equation- of-a-plane), or constitute a way of joining the vertices that happen to be along an axis of symmetry of the shape. hint: it hath 12 facets. thus quoth: > "Here is a link to an n=13 where there are 12-5 @ 1 and 1-6 @ 1. That is, a correctly." > > And included the url: http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath005.htm > > which links to n=13: > http://www.mathpages.com/home/elec/elec13.htm of course, the 13-verticed shape has no symmetry, at all -- I guess. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:00:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 12-AUG-2002 11:00 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us the folowing is just balderdash (is that not bad ?-) you just have not defined any thing, really, at all, to begin to make such slapdash claims! you can see from these sorts of exercises, taht the prospect of n-verticed trigonated shapes, whose trigona are all of equal area (if not even shape) is very dim -- even if they can be made somewhat "close" in area. as you know, the gonomic icosahedral projection is not confromal, that is the areas are not the same as the sphere's, from place to place (though closer then for any other regular -hedron). I was going to draw another "point" from that, but it eludes me. thus quoht: Start with some radius, say 4.23 units. Put n points at that radius from a center, as many as will fit, but no point closer to any other point than 1 unit. Connect the exterior points to center point. We then have 2(n-2) spherical tets. Truncate those tets with a radial sweep of 3.23. Place some new maximum number of points at this new radius, 3.23. Call it n(2). Draw in new radial lines to these new points. Truncate this second layer of spherical tets with a radial sweep of 2.32. Repeat this process until all space is used up. We end up will 5 concentric shells. Each shell has a discrete number of points in it, plus a remainder. The center shell has a radius of .32 and has no point on it. All space is accounted for in whole numbers. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:14:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 13-AUG-2002 6:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is incredibly irritating. you folks produce a veritable flotilla of unproved (insufficient) assertions, and you don't notice. here are 2, that are not that hard, for these reasons: every edge is shared by two trigona (of a trigonated shape); if the vertices are on a sphere, the bases of the altitudes of the center-vertexed tetrahedra will not be, and will generally be at different "altitudes" from it. thus quoth: far as I understand. The individual triangles can all be constructed of different vectors(no 2 vectors in the structure identical) and still have all their areas be equal, except for some fraction left which becomes the last triangle. thus quoth: In these shells we've been looking at, the height of every tet is exactly the same: the apex vertex of every tet is the center of the object (all apices are coincident). All tet-bases are polyhedron faces (triangular). Thus base-to-apex heights are identical for all tets (no?). Thus if the faces are equal in area (not necessarily in triangle shape), the tets they're bases of should be, also. No? again, if you don't know Napier's Rule, with the requisite grokking of polar trigona, before, maybe you could. of course, i always recommend _The Tetrahedron and How to Use It_ by Altshiller-Court (a.k.a. _Modern Pure Solid Geometry_ .-) there are at least a zillion books on "iff," or "how to prove theorems," but making them is more of a problemma. there are probably more like 2-zillion of those books, but all that you have to do, is to follow-along a few proofs, as above or in Euclid, or what ever. otherwize, just continue on your hack through the Land o'Fuzzy Logicians! so, when I say, SHADDUP, I's jus'tryin't'help you-all! --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:13:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 13-AUG-2002 10:13 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us here's another example: Dick, did you know that the rh.dodecah. is *dual* to the cuboctohedron (VE) ?? that's the context of its "sixness." now, it's easy to construct a rh.dodecah. around a hexah. (cube) around a tetrah. that is in the IVM ( and it "has" 6 of the tetrah.vols.); what is its relation to the IVM, or location? well, for one thing, the packing of rh.dodecah. is dual to the IVM, as well! the problem that I just gave (number of cities and interdystances required to determine curvature of planet) is very simple. at least, it is simple to give a qualitiative answer, without using a calculator for the trig. does it not have bearing upon your problem? (what ever it is; there's a bit too-much to read, to configure it, and you've probably kept anyone from joining this list .-) thus quoth: > > I can easily account for this hole in synergetics. It is exactly equal > > to 6 tet volumes, aka rhombic dodecahedron, the spheric domain. > >Do you have a formula for computing these 6 tet volumes, from the length of >an edge (which should be the same as the equivalent sphere's radius) ? > > > > Bucky not only ignores such "missing-sphere" Gap (CCPs have no missing > > > spheres; > > > > There is no reason I can't delete, say, 1/2 the vertexes in the IVM and > > talk about what is left. > >True, but why would you? What means would you use to keep sensible track of >what was left; how it would behave, what its structural properties would >be, and so forth? > > > > IVMs have no "holes" that're missing 12 vectors and a vertex), but > > > also he ignores six *vectors* per VE unless he's (rare; hard to find in > > > SI&II; quoted here recently by you) jitterbugging through icosa phase. > > > > I don't think you are correct. You have some confusion about IVM, I > > think. It is the zero condition. You can twist it, squeeze it, stretch > > it, anything you want to do to it. But it does not lose any topological > > aspects. Do you know about the cheese tetrahedron? yes, Steve, it is I, Brian "Quincy" Hutchings; at your service. just don't call me a "sir," and I won't do the same to you (even if you almost got your head removed by B2's Excalibur !-) Quincy" >Subject: Re: geodesic > here's a problemma for you. > > you're given a listing of cities with their > distances between. > what is the minimum number of cities and > interdistances required, > to dtermine the diameter of the globe? > wneh can one less be used? > and one less than that? > any less? > >hint: use polar trigon (resulting from GCs) and >Napiers rule from spher.trig. OK, >I haven't actually done it. the following is good, if it's true that the vertices do not leave the face of the hexah.; can that be so, if the VE actually contracts to icosah. phase? >Subject: VE to ICOSA Slide Transition - No Twist > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GeoJourney/message/664 > >-- >Jim Lehman >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GeoJourney/ --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 00:17:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed my most "well-polished post" is my flyer/fac that's called "Cosmometrical constance. see http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html. >I'm planning to update the Fuller FAQ > in the next few months. > >If people could identify really good discussion threads, find your >most well-polished posts, &etc., I'll review them for inclusion. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 06:27:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200208121506.g7CF6nu06621@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 4 is minimum. A guess. --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings > 12-AUG-2002 8:06 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > here's a problemma for you. > > you're given a listing of cities with their > distances between. > what is the minimum number of cities and > interdistances required, > to dtermine the diameter of the globe? > wneh can one less be used? > and one less than that? > any less? > > --SIGHnS! > > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html > > > > > > --Oil Platform 2000!... > > The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols > > of the Elders of Kyoto: > > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" > http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, > below): > > 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) > > 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) > > 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) > > 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) > > 21 -- OMAHA (25K) > > 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) > > 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) > > 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) > > 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 06:43:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200208131713.g7DHDnR15536@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings > 13-AUG-2002 10:13 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > here's another example: > Dick, did you know that the rh.dodecah. is *dual* > to the cuboctohedron (VE) ?? Yeah. 12 vertexes and 14 "faces"(8 triangles, 6 squares) compared to 12 faces and 14 vertexes. > that's the context of its "sixness." And that the rhdodecah is the spheric domanain in CCP/IVM. > now, > it's easy to construct a rh.dodecah. around a hexah. > (cube) around a tetrah. that is in the IVM ( and > it "has" 6 of the tetrah.vols.); > what is its relation to the IVM, or location? I asked a while back what is its surface area. I guessed it is 24 where the area of the VE is 20. Do you know? > well, for one thing, > the packing of rh.dodecah. is dual to the IVM, as well! > > the problem that I just gave (number of cities and > interdystances required to determine curvature > of planet) is very simple. at least, > it is simple to give a qualitiative answer, > without using a calculator for the trig. > does it not have bearing upon your problem? Yes. > (what ever it is; > there's a bit too-much to read, to configure it, and > you've probably kept anyone from joining this list .-) I thought LaRouche did that. Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 06:45:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Why not copy it to the list? How long can it be? Maybe I could read it then. Dick --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > my most "well-polished post" is my flyer/fac > that's called "Cosmometrical constance. > > see http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:55:11 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ In-Reply-To: <20020814134545.42077.qmail@web40302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 14/8/02 14:45, Dick Fischbeck at dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM wrote: > Why not copy it to the list? How long can it be? Maybe I > could read it then. Posting a link is much better, thanks. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:20:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200208131713.g7DHDnR15536@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Second guess- 3 points on a sphere find the center. The vector/edge/chord/line connecting 2 points on a sphere has a plane through its midpoint that passes through the center. 3 of these planes can locate the center. Dick > the problem that I just gave (number of cities and > interdystances required to determine curvature > of planet) is very simple. at least, > it is simple to give a qualitiative answer, > without using a calculator for the trig. > does it not have bearing upon your problem? > (what ever it is; __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:27:59 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you have a PC, Paul, will you do me a favor? I can't read the following: http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Cosmo.PCX with my Mac. Will you copy and email it to me directly? Thanks. Dick --- Paul Taylor wrote: > on 14/8/02 14:45, Dick Fischbeck at > dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM wrote: > > > Why not copy it to the list? How long can it be? Maybe > I > > could read it then. > > Posting a link is much better, thanks. > > Paul Taylor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:06:42 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hawk Subject: A&B Quanta Modules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Recently I have been focusing on the A&B modules and have upgraded my website on this subject: http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/charhawk/mods.html I have always felt that the modules were one of Fuller's greatest discoveries and that their scientific importance is yet to be realized. I am attempting to classify the various ways of packing Mites into Couplers and have come up with OCTANT-PACKED, CROSSOCTANT-PACKED, and HYBRID (combination of the first two): http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/charhawk/mods.html#COUP I think these categories cover all the ways in which Mites can pack into Couplers . Do you all agree? Similarly, I want to classify the ways that Couplers pack into Rhombic Dodeca and have used Cubic and Kite: http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/charhawk/oom.html I have realized from observing the models that OCTANT-PACKED and CROSSOCTANT-PACKED Couplers, constructed from the same mix of Mites result in the same Rhombic Dodeca when the former are KITE packed and the latter are CUBIC packed and vice versa. I am trying to develop a methodology for relating the organization of Mites to the allspace packing of Rhombic Dodeca because this is the polyhedral equivalent to the isotropic vector matrix . It seems to me, from my understanding of Synergetics, that the B modules are the equivalent to the vectors in the IVM and that they interconnect the spheric (rhombic dodeca) centers as vectors interconnect sphere centers in the allspace packing of spheres (12 around 1 vs12 rhombic faces on the RD). The "BCE" Bmod faces, or lack of them, on the rhombic surfaces of the RD determine the structure of entities as the RD pack into allspace. I realize the complexity of this undertaking and it might make more sense to start with something like an element or a molecule and work backwards toward an allspace RD packing model. If any of you have the time, I'd like to have your feedback on these ideas. Best regards. Richard Hawkins ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:16:23 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ In-Reply-To: <20020814192759.6994.qmail@web40305.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 14/8/02 20:27, Dick Fischbeck at dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM wrote: > If you have a PC, Paul, will you do me a favor? I can't > read the following: > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > with my Mac. Will you copy and email it to me directly? Dick, I have a Mac too, but I gave it a try anyway, and found that before I could even view anything in the browser window, it was starting to download some unknown file onto my machine. I aborted that process immediately, as that is not the way I prefer to download files, i.e. involuntarily. Until "Quincy" sorts his shit out, I'll be steering clear of that site. How difficult can it be to upload a text file onto a web-site so that people can just read it? Regards, Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 06:44:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 15-AUG-2002 6:44 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, ".pcx" is just a file-compression suffix for a file; the file is *supposed* to be a facsimile, which I can (at least) read on the sErfterms at SMPLs (both of them; the other two are closed). it doesn't surprize me that my site is being spoofed, but I have no clue as to how-long this has been going on, although my site is just shy of a year old. (I beleive that HS, my provider, was taken-over by folks who are not using it as, per a write-up of them, a "high-profit center+ -- unless it was *started* by them, in actuality. just se for youself, how the online system works for a trail sub, http://www.homestead.com. thus quoth: I aborted that process immediately, as that is not the way I prefer to download files, i.e. involuntarily. Until "Quincy" sorts his shit out, I'll the fact is that I've given-out hundreds of copies, mostly at schoolboard meetings (SM and LA), and some boardmembers may have retained their copies. unfortuantely, the original file was lost; the fac'd have to be transcribed, before I could post it. --SIGHns! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:49:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hawk Subject: A&B Quanta Modules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Recently I have been focusing on the A&B modules and have upgraded my website on this subject: http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/charhawk/mods.html I have always felt that the modules were one of Fuller's greatest discoveries and that their scientific importance is yet to be realized. I am attempting to classify the various ways of packing Mites into Couplers and have come up with OCTANT-PACKED, CROSSOCTANT-PACKED, and HYBRID (combination of the first two): http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/charhawk/mods.html#COUP I think these categories cover all the ways in which Mites can pack into Couplers . Similarly, I want to classify the ways that Couplers pack into Rhombic Dodeca and have used Cubic and Kite: http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/charhawk/oom.html I have realized from observing the models that OCTANT-PACKED and CROSSOCTANT-PACKED Couplers, constructed from the same mix of Mites result in the same Rhombic Dodeca when the former are KITE packed and the latter are CUBIC packed and vice versa. I am trying to develop a methodology for relating the organization of Mites to the allspace packing of Rhombic Dodeca because this is the polyhedral equivalent to the isotropic vector matrix . It seems to me, from my understanding of Synergetics, that the B modules are the equivalent to the vectors in the IVM and that they interconnect the spheric (rhombic dodeca) centers as vectors interconnect sphere centers in the allspace packing of spheres (12 around 1 vs12 rhombic faces on the RD). The "BCE" Bmod faces, or lack of them, on the rhombic surfaces of the RD determine the structure of entities as the RD pack into allspace. It might make more sense to start with something like an element or a molecule and work backwards toward an allspace RD packing model. If any of you have the time, I'd like to have your feedback on these ideas. Best regards. Richard Hawkins ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 07:10:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 791 <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 15-AUG-2002 7:10 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us re below, the guy is Alain Lobel, who holds a central position in my flyer/paper, as the dyscoverer of wsomething that Bucky'd dig -- out for! thus quoth: > The construction technique I'm thinking of is by some guy in France. oops; his site is www.equilatere.com, I think, but you can link to it from http://quincy4board.homestead.com/MiltonAcademy.ht ml http://quincy4board.homestead.com/MiltonAcademy.html as for Bucky's putative referal to facets as "windows," or mothing-at-all, this is just his old, toothpick-frame o'reference, and is not really such a groovy thing. however, his idea of naming shapes by their vertex-inventory is great, and I have expanded it (on the flyer), but using "-asteron," if only because it's Greek to me. the following is ridiculous, or sneaky-sinistre. thus quoth: > However, your .27009 value as being equal to 2 times my inverse fine > structure constant value, from a graphical interpretation stand-point, is > difficult to interpret at this time > I am aware that my .7404804 is not the 7.297......NIST currently shows > for the fine structure. I am not ready yet to discuss much more about it reminds me of major Bruce Cathie and the "harmonic grid," which is nothing but a vast confusion of decimals; that is, relegated to beating-off with the base o-ten! the following doesn't quite grok the "point" of it; more tea, dude? thus quoth: Generally, when I come across an instance of someone renaming something that already has an accepted and reasonable name, I have a hard time suppressing an image of the renamer pissing in a circle -- claiming territory. Could this provide a partial explanation of why Bucky drank such copious amounts of tea? yes, there surely are spatial analogs of all of these theorems from planar geometry. as always, get books by Althsiller-Court, esp. _Modern Pure Solid Geometry_ -- the perfect book, from a post-Buckafkan view. thus quoth: Here's java equal area triangles in 2d. Is there a 3d equivalent? I'm trying to imagine those 2(n-2) equal area triangles on a sphere. Jim? http://www.edc.org/MLT/ConnGeo/CP.html --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:10:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 15-AUG-2002 12:10 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us that was a good guess, Dick; the plane that bisects the edge, which is a chord of the sphere, is called a "medial plane" (in A-C's book). show why it is that 4 points are needed to define a sphere (or 4 planes); in a sense, the sphere and tertrah. are the same thing. in any case, your three medial planes meet in a "degenerate" case, which is a line, for the same reason. as for the IVM/CCP and the rh.dodecah., the rh.dodecah. that's centered on every vertex of the IVM, is not the same as the one that's built around the tetrah., and is definitely not the same as the dual to the simple shape of a cuboctah. (a VE with no cnentral vertex). thus quoth: Second guess- 3 points on a sphere find the center. The vector/edge/chord/line connecting 2 points on a sphere has a plane through its midpoint that passes through the center. 3 of these planes can locate the center. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:23:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Dome Homes Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First Capital Mortgage Group specializes in geodesic dome financing: http://www.1capitalmortgage.com/Dome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:26:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Housing Affordability Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to the US National Association of Home Builders (NAHB): http://www.nahb.com/housing_issues/fft2001.pdf (page 33) US Housing Affordability Although the nationwide homeownership rate stands at an impressive 67.5% and the vast majority of American families have benefited from expanding housing opportunities, favorable interest rates and rising home values in recent years, millions of others have been left behind. Here are the facts: =AE A full 14% of American families today-13.7 million households-have "critical housing needs," meaning that they spend more than half of their income on housing or live in seriously substandard conditions. One in every seven renter households (5.3 million Americans) is included in this group, and they receive no assistance. =AE The homeownership rate among young households is still below the peak of 44.7% that it reached in 1979 and now stands at 41.2%. =AE The homeownership rate for African Americans and Hispanics was 47.8% and 47.5%, respectively, for the fourth quarter of 2000-20 percentage points below the national average of 67.5%. =AE While millions of working families need affordable housing to buy or rent, the number of low-income rental units is declining by almost half a million per year. =AE In high-growth, major metropolitan areas, thousands of people commute 100 miles or more to work because of the lack of affordable housing in the communities where they work. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 05:50:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200208151910.g7FJAFt00160@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This we need to discuss. Any sphere is a potential VE. Are you saying they are not the same size? Dick > as for the IVM/CCP and the rh.dodecah., > the rh.dodecah. that's centered on every vertex > of the IVM, is not the same as the one > that's built around the tetrah., and > is definitely not the same as the dual > to the simple shape of a cuboctah. (a VE with no > cnentral vertex). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:23:02 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I should first wish to know, if any one *admits* to having read it, or if it was always "404, you Jerks!" the fact is that it *can* be viewed or printed from most terminals at the two (open) SMPLs. unless -- the thought is just to horridly sinister -- only I, myself and Brian are able to see it, there. having newly considered it, I'd guess that the most liekly dysposition of many of the copies that I gave-out -- those not roundfiled -- would be a passing-on to collegial colleagues; perhaps, that's how sir Michael got it; eh? thus quoth: >Why not copy it to the list? How long can it be? Maybe I >could read it then. > > my most "well-polished post" is my flyer/fac > > that's called "Cosmometrical constance. > > > > see http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:25:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the write-ups on the new owner are on my page, http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html -- press the "OK" button near the top. thus saith: > although my site is just shy of a year old. > (I beleive that HS, my provider, > was taken-over by folks who are not using it as, > per a write-up of them, a "high-profit center+ -- > unless it was *started* by them, in actuality. > > just se for youself, > how the online system works for a trail sub, > http://www.homestead.com. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:38:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm saying what I said. if you look into _S_, there's a good sequence of illustrations, showing how the octahedral "spaces" transform into the cuboctohedral "spheres," as situated within a portion of the IVM. also note that the VE vertices on the cuboctahedral surface are NOT centers of spheres; I think, it's every-other center is the center of a particular CCP's spheres (thus, you can construct another CCP on the other set, and these intertransform as per the figures). thus quoth: >This we need to discuss. Any sphere is a potential VE. Are >you saying they are not the same size? > > as for the IVM/CCP and the rh.dodecah., > > the rh.dodecah. that's centered on every vertex > > of the IVM, is not the same as the one > > that's built around the tetrah., and > > is definitely not the same as the dual > > to the simple shape of a cuboctah. (a VE with no > > cnentral vertex). --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:33:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Peter Subject: No cure for a sick world? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GENI will be participating in the upcoming Johannesburg Summit on Sustainable Development, August 26 - Sept. 4th. Go to http://www.johannesburgsummit.org for more details. The following article will be distributed and makes the case for Bucky's premier strategy from the World Game. Please feel free to share this piece with your own mail list. Peter Meisen No cure for a sick world? by Peter Meisen, President, Global Energy Network Institute (GENI) (www.geni.org) August 16, 2002 Ten years ago, the largest-ever gathering of world leaders met in Rio de Janeiro for the Earth Summit. They pledged to take better care of our planet; reducing pollution, protecting biodiversity and saving rainforests. Now the United Nations is convening the Johannesburg Summit on Sustainable Development to assess our collective progress. In almost every category, any objective reporter would give us a failing grade. A headline virtually screamed, "World leaders say Earth is sick, but fail to agree on a cure." Since 1992, world population has grown by a billion people. Atmospheric pollution, especially greenhouse gases have climbed to all-time highs. The gap between rich and poor countries has widened. The onslaught continues against forests for their fuel and hardwoods. UN Secretary General Kofi Annan summarized the UN Development Program's annual report saying that "100 nations are worse off today than 15 years ago, with 1.3 billion people earning less than $1 per day." For the 2002 Johannesburg Summit, the UN has just released "Global Challenge, Global Opportunity" which highlights the urgent need to address many damaging trends. If the projections prevail, nearly half of the world's people will suffer from water shortages within 25 years. Human expansion is causing unprecedented loss of biodiversity and arable land. Nitin Desai, the Summit Secretary-General declared, "We have to change from the present model of development to sustainable development or else risk further jeopardizing human security everywhere." The 3 kilometer thick brown haze that covers South Asia is the result of fossil fuel burning in the region. Respiratory ailments affect millions, especially children and seniors. Still, the World Energy Council projects a doubling of primary energy demand by 2025! Five years ago, policy-makers framed the Kyoto Protocol to set carbon reduction targets and deadlines. Who are we trying to fool? Our leaders convene with good intentions, make terrific speeches and go home to struggling economies and domestic social demands. The ancient proverb states the condition best: "Unless we change the direction we're going, we're likely to end up where we are headed." Maybe we're asking the wrong initial questions! Of course it's natural to put out fires when you see them. But are we attacking the cause of these problems, or just putting band-aids on one global wound after another? We suggest a different approach -- one that was developed 30 years ago by the visionary engineer, Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller. "Bucky" was called the Leonardo da Vinci of the 20th century, and posed the following global question: "How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time through spontaneous cooperation without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone?" In other words: how do we provide a decent living standard for all people and protect our environment for the long term? Isn't that a better place to begin? Designing the systems to meet the needs of all people, while protecting the environment for future generations is a superior approach. Fuller's World Game simulation uses comprehensive anticipatory design science -- assessing all issues and needs, anticipating future trends -- then engineering solutions that make many of today's global issues obsolete. From this global question emerged a premier strategy for peace and sustainable development. Simply stated, the number one goal is to provide "clean" electricity for all. The strategy is to link electrically the renewable energy resources around the world. Or in today's terms, a world wide web of electricity, tapping renewable energy resources. Unknown to most people, half of this energy network is already in place around the world. High voltage transmission provides the freeway for electrons that delivers the energy to run our homes and businesses. Yet 1/3 of humanity has no electricity for even the most basic needs: clean water, lighting, refrigeration of food and medicines. Two billion people still burn wood and cow dung to meet daily energy requirements. The global climate problem is rooted in the fact that 80% of energy production comes from non-renewable energy sources: gas, oil, coal or nuclear, which produce increasing levels of pollution or toxic waste. Yet our planet is blessed with abundant renewable potential from wind, hydro, solar, geothermal, tidal and biomass. Geographically, these resources are often located in remote regions, even neighboring countries, far from our cities and industry. Power grids provide the access. With cost effective power transmission now reaching thousands of kilometers, these renewable energy sources can begin to replace some of the aging fossil and nuclear plants, as well as power the economic development of Latin America, Africa and Asia. Such a visionary plan may seem fated to future generations. Yet, the last ten years has seen international connections between the most unlikely neighbors: East and West Germany after the fall of the Berlin Wall, Israel and Jordan from the Washington Declaration treaty, and more recently, cross-border grids are being built between Turkey and Iran, Argentina and Chile, Spain and Morocco. Daily demand fluctuations are leveled with east-to-west interconnections, and north-south linkages level seasonal variations. The buying and selling of electricity allows for expanded markets, provides stability and reliability to the network, and offers multiple benefits to system operators. This international infrastructure development fosters trade, cooperation and peace. Three decades ago, the United Nations and numerous experts corroborated this development strategy. At that time, Cold War politics stymied any real progress. Now the enemy has become pollution, overpopulation, poverty and nuclear proliferation. To put out these fires we've held the Earth Summit in Rio, the Population Summit in Cairo, the Social Summit in Copenhagen, the Women's Summit In Beijing and the Cities Summit in Istanbul. Yet the problems persist and escalate every year. It's time for a new approach. Attacking these issues as separate problems ignores the nature of our interconnected society. It's time to ask the bigger question: how do we make it work for all humanity and the environment? The solutions are guaranteed to offer a better cure than the recent global prognosis. END -- The Global Energy Network Institute focuses on the interconnection of electric power networks between nations and continents, with an emphasis on tapping abundant renewable energy resources. This strategy is the highest priority of the World Game simulation developed by Dr. uckminster Fuller three decades ago. TEL: 619-595-0139 peter@geni.org http://www.geni.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 18:32:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 795 Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed why do you guys give no reference for this junk? >There are numerous distances that are not readily apparant. > >What is the distance between L and 1, L and 4, L and 7 > the distance between L and 2, L and 5, L and 8 ? > > This would give the L related distancing (basically), >next, other distances could be determined that also >are drawn to 1,4,7,2,5 and 8... as we just did for L. > What I was hoping for really, is that your Lehman grid >and the Wgrid could merge/inter-relate. your conjecture, below, is not silly in the least; it's an embodiment of the definition of primality, and it's a well-known result (sic). it is easy to prove, at any rate, without recourse to computers, and you can always look it "up" in abook on numbertheory, if you don't configure it (that's how one learns proofin .-) >My silly conjecture is that for primes, it will not >intersect with lower valued n, sphere centers. >While this is almost undoubtedly wrong, it might be >interesting to know when this does occur. > > I would think that no graphics would be required, >and that Python could be the tool to generate that info ? um, yeah. thus quoth: >Regarding tensegrity, there's a passage in synergetics where Bucky clearly >relates compression members to linear trains of thought, the harder stuff >of spell-it-out-style cogitation, while what *really* coheres such trains >into systems at the end of the day, complete with grand centrals et al, >ain't so compressive or tuneable -- which is where gravity comes in, i.e. >tension. And so we're back to his "non-unitarily conceptual" -- and yet it >hangs together just the same (Universe that is). > >I'd quote this passage right here, but Robert Gray's site appears down at >the moment (we hope not for the long term). But I can give an URL for >later: http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s10/p0520.html#1005.50 >Anyway, it's linked from my bio of the guy, at grunch.net/synergetics >(bio.html). I had this exact question, but I forgot to note it; I'd thought that it might actually "assymptotically" *approach* such linear increase. of course, it's true for the relationship of the heighth and area of a *single* trigon; eh? thus quoth: >Are you sure that's linear? >It seems to me (intuitively) that the greater the height, the less the >increase in surface area (or volume). >Not so? > >I'm saying what I said. if you look into _S_, >there's a good sequence of illustrations, >showing how the octahedral "spaces" transform >into the cuboctohedral "spheres," as situated >within a portion of the IVM. also note that >the VE vertices on the cuboctahedral surface are NOT centers >of spheres; I think, >it's every-other center is the center >of a particular CCP's spheres (thus, >you can construct another CCP on the other set, and >these intertransform as per the figures). >NB: Bucky's wonderous trademark-he-said-he'd-never-again-make, >-vertexion, really just amounts to the 20th-cce dyscovery >of the "Catalan solids" by monsieur Catalan; >they are the duals of the "archimedeans," which >paradoxically are each made from identical vertices; >dig that! let me state this in terms of "iff:" three points are necessary to determine a line in a plane, and 3 are sufficient, if they are not on the same line. thus quoth: > >- 3 points (not in a line) A, B and C are necessary and sufficient to > >define a circle, i.e.: > >- consider the plane the 3 points are in, keeping things 2D initially > >- draw a line perpendicular to the line AB, equidistant from A and B > >- do the same with B and C > >- the 2 lines you have drawn cross at the centre of the circle. ohmygod; captain Bruce is Canadian? thus (tongue in cheek) quoth: > The major must have gotten promoted as he is now a Captain. >Captain Bruce Cathie and I do share at least one thing in >common, though it is not having a UFO experience. > > Our commonality is exactly as you hinted at. >We would both find that 123.6 and 1.236 and .0000000000000000000000001236 >and .0001236 >times 10^28, would be connected somehow with one another. > > I have been trying to come up with a statement >to describe this connectibilty/relationship, >where one side of the equation equals the other >side times 10 to the n....n, being an integer. > >In my scheme, I see ALL values >converted/reconfigured/decimal stripped... >and ending up as final values restricted to >1.0 or greater and to less than 10.0. (There is >actually no 10 in this scheme, it would be >expressed as 1.0.) The 4 values I showed >above would all be 1.236...times 10^n. >I use it as a tool to look for potential relationships. > >Certainly, two values cannot be equal if their >significant digits are not equal...regardless whether or >not their 10 to the n's are of the same value. >So, used as a tool, this way at least, it has >some value as anelimination device. However, >I suggest that it is more than that... >I think it points towards interesting speculation >regarding inter-relationships. > >And you got this mostly because I said 2 instead of >John's correction for me of .2 ? > >I have not heard of Bruce Carie before. >I would, however, disagree with his >chosen selection of intial variables as the >proper elements required for such an extrapolation, >and what this type of mathematical manipulations >implies, according to what I grasp >of his over-all approach at this time. this following is incorrect. the *volume will remain the same but, as the shapes are all different (with only the reg.tetrah. able to have the least area per volume), they'll generally be diff. in there areas. (there's a whole series of these "constructions" in _S_, mostly about equivol. tetrahedra.) thus quoth: >2.There are an infinite number of tets that all can have the same area >and all be inscribed in the same sphere, too. Take a triangle. Take a >circle in a plane parrallel to that triangle. This circle is a small >circle on the sphere described by the tet. Place a point on the circle. >Connect the 4 vertexes. Move that point on the circle around the >circle. All the tets that result from this proceedure are different. >They also all have the same area. They all are inscribled in the same >sphere. sorry about that, but I was afraid that the "save draft" feature on Hotmail still didn't work; it does, now (I had to complain). thus quoth: >Quincy-You are doing something wrong these last two posts. You are >sending the entire digest of posts back with your comments. dude, I leave it to you to actually try to do, and it's a bit difficult to follow your train, here. anyhow, the word is mediaL, plane as defined by A-C. thus quoth: >Okay, I think we can take any 2 opposite edges of the tet, draw a >median plane for each. Those planes intersect the same line, an axis of >the sphere, since both median planes go through the center of the >sphere. Draw a perpendicular through 2 vertexes to the axis. Then do >the trig. Would something like that work? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:30:35 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: almost 13 Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed look at the case for 5 vertices (a trigonal bipyramid) and 6 vertices (a tetragonal of "square" bipoyramid, a.k.a. octahedron. if it's the same for 11 and 12 vertices, that's news to me, although I have configured the shape (is it "degenerate" ?-) 3 4 109.4712206 3 5 90.0000000 3 6 90.0000000 3 7 77.8695421 3 8 74.8584922 3 9 70.5287794 3 10 66.1468220 3 11 63.4349488 3 12 63.4349488 "seperation" being the central angle between two balls, with respect to the central ball (if any; OK ?-) so, I guess, it's about teh same as "I think 63.4349488 is the spherical angle for the icosa's edge, isn't it? I don't know what a H&S angle is yet." so, have you become a member of the Lost Tribe o'Wolframites? remember, his daddy named an element! thus quoth: >http://www.research.att.com/~njas/packings/index.html#I > >Does anyone know why the angular seperation for 3-5 and 3-6 are the >same, and 3-11 and 3-12 are the same? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:11:35 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: having a UFO experience (or not) Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed (sqrt2)/2 is sqrt(1/2); "cubed" it is (1/2)^(3/2). the old tokenism of "rationalizing the divizor" generally obfuscates, perhaps especially when removing "imaginaries" from it. now, the rounded-off figure of 0.35355 has no significance, what so ever!... also, you didn't get that I have no idea what "L1028" means, since you provided no link to anything on your watermanspace site. thus quoth: > > As you have cubes that have an edge of (root 2)/ 2, [re L1049] > > then their volume (a 3d concept) is edge cubed or .35355. > > > > Which is equal to the lineal value ( a 2d concept ) > > as display in L1028. thus saith (note the use of Bucky's terminology; it hath a place!): > > >oops; his site is www.equilatere.com, I think, but > > >you can link to it from http://quincy4board.homestead.com/MiltonAcademy.html > > > as for Bucky's putative referal to facets as "windows," or > > >mothing-at-all, this is just his old, toothpick-frame > > >o'reference, and is not really such a groovy thing. however, > > >his idea of naming shapes by their vertex-inventory is great, and > > >I have expanded it (on the flyer), but using "-asteron," if > > >only because it's Greek to me. thus saith: >NB: Bucky's wonderous trademark-he-said-he'd-never-again-make, >-vertexion, really just amounts to the 20th-cce dyscovery >of the "Catalan solids" by monsieur Catalan; >they are the duals of the "archimedeans," which >paradoxically are each made from identical vertices; >dig that! this is the actually the main problem of "having" those experiences (or not, as the case can be). there is no reason to suppose that such putative entities are in any way aerodynamic, that is to say, "Flying." the second main problem is purely a matter of trigonometry, which I leave for the would-be peri-close-encounteror to dyscover, perhaps in a course at his local community college. as for your and captain Bruce's ideas about decimals, I can almost address it. there are only very special cases, if any, when identical sequences of digits, at completely different decimal places, have any congruence, namely when the related "period" of the numbers differs by 10 digits (in the base of ten). please, don't quote me on this, because it's probably wrong. in any case, since mister captain B. makes no "iff" claims, they are simply numeroligical puffery with no comprehsension of modular arithmetic. he hasn't even begun to look in the field of these simple (and often tedious) things, but he has this Britsh sub-Cult of Isis hovering around his ass, like it was the best source o'honey *in* the field. sorry; my assertion about the period is wrong, but that doesn't get Cathie off the ground, or back down from his cloud. Oystein Ore's book, _Number Theory and Its History_ has a great account of Stevin's 15cce construciton of the decimals (in any base), that is the minimum that you must no to play with this stuff. > Our commonality is exactly as you hinted at. >We would both find that 123.6 and 1.236 and .0000000000000000000000001236 >and .0001236 >times 10^28, would be connected somehow with one another. > > I have been trying to come up with a statement >to describe this connectibilty/relationship, >where one side of the equation equals the other >side times 10 to the n....n, being an integer. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:28:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: No cure for a sick world Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the Stroy of Fossilized Fuels, or >have you ever thought, >"what if the great-railroad-cricle trackings >of a GENI had caused the magnetic poles >to be reversed?" > tehy hadn't, either! --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:45:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: No cure for a sick world <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 17-AUG-2002 10:45 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us have you ever thought, "what if the great-railroad-cricle trackings of a GENI had caused the magnetic poles to be reversed?" tehy hadn't, either! --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:09:25 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: any cure for double postings? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Brian and/or Quincy, Please could you cease copying your responses to Synergeo threads to the Geodesic list? There may well be subscribers to the latter who have no idea why you're answering questions nobody there is raising. And for those of us subscribing to both it is needless. Many thanks, Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 07:41:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: No cure for a sick world? In-Reply-To: <3D5D8BCC.7030103@geni.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Best of luck with it Peter! Keep up the good work on the most important problem to solve in our time according to Bucky. Leifur Thor > From: Peter > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:33:32 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: No cure for a sick world? > > GENI will be participating in the upcoming Johannesburg Summit on > Sustainable Development, August 26 - Sept. 4th. Go to > http://www.johannesburgsummit.org for more details. The following > article will be distributed and makes the case for Bucky's premier > strategy from the World Game. Please feel free to share this piece with > your own mail list. > Peter Meisen > > > No cure for a sick world? > > by Peter Meisen, President, Global Energy Network Institute (GENI) > (www.geni.org) August 16, 2002 > > Ten years ago, the largest-ever gathering of world leaders met in Rio de > Janeiro for the Earth Summit. They pledged to take better care of our > planet; reducing pollution, protecting biodiversity and saving > rainforests. Now the United Nations is convening the Johannesburg Summit > on Sustainable Development to assess our collective progress. In almost > every category, any objective reporter would give us a failing grade. A > headline virtually screamed, "World leaders say Earth is sick, but fail > to agree on a cure." > > Since 1992, world population has grown by a billion people. Atmospheric > pollution, especially greenhouse gases have climbed to all-time highs. > The gap between rich and poor countries has widened. The onslaught > continues against forests for their fuel and hardwoods. UN Secretary > General Kofi Annan summarized the UN Development Program's annual report > saying that "100 nations are worse off today than 15 years ago, with 1.3 > billion people earning less than $1 per day." > > For the 2002 Johannesburg Summit, the UN has just released "Global > Challenge, Global Opportunity" which highlights the urgent need to > address many damaging trends. If the projections prevail, nearly half of > the world's people will suffer from water shortages within 25 years. > Human expansion is causing unprecedented loss of biodiversity and arable > land. Nitin Desai, the Summit Secretary-General declared, "We have to > change from the present model of development to sustainable development > or else risk further jeopardizing human security everywhere." > > The 3 kilometer thick brown haze that covers South Asia is the result of > fossil fuel burning in the region. Respiratory ailments affect millions, > especially children and seniors. Still, the World Energy Council > projects a doubling of primary energy demand by 2025! Five years ago, > policy-makers framed the Kyoto Protocol to set carbon reduction targets > and deadlines. > > Who are we trying to fool? Our leaders convene with good intentions, > make terrific speeches and go home to struggling economies and domestic > social demands. The ancient proverb states the condition best: "Unless > we change the direction we're going, we're likely to end up where we are > headed." > > Maybe we're asking the wrong initial questions! Of course it's natural > to put out fires when you see them. But are we attacking the cause of > these problems, or just putting band-aids on one global wound after another? > > We suggest a different approach -- one that was developed 30 years ago > by the visionary engineer, Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller. "Bucky" was called > the Leonardo da Vinci of the 20th century, and posed the following > global question: > > "How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity > in the shortest possible time through spontaneous cooperation > without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone?" > > In other words: how do we provide a decent living standard for all > people and protect our environment for the long term? Isn't that a > better place to begin? Designing the systems to meet the needs of all > people, while protecting the environment for future generations is a > superior approach. Fuller's World Game simulation uses comprehensive > anticipatory design science -- assessing all issues and needs, > anticipating future trends -- then engineering solutions that make many > of today's global issues obsolete. > > From this global question emerged a premier strategy for peace and > sustainable development. Simply stated, the number one goal is to > provide "clean" electricity for all. The strategy is to link > electrically the renewable energy resources around the world. Or in > today's terms, a world wide web of electricity, tapping renewable energy > resources. > > Unknown to most people, half of this energy network is already in place > around the world. High voltage transmission provides the freeway for > electrons that delivers the energy to run our homes and businesses. Yet > 1/3 of humanity has no electricity for even the most basic needs: clean > water, lighting, refrigeration of food and medicines. Two billion people > still burn wood and cow dung to meet daily energy requirements. The > global climate problem is rooted in the fact that 80% of energy > production comes from non-renewable energy sources: gas, oil, coal or > nuclear, which produce increasing levels of pollution or toxic waste. > > Yet our planet is blessed with abundant renewable potential from wind, > hydro, solar, geothermal, tidal and biomass. Geographically, these > resources are often located in remote regions, even neighboring > countries, far from our cities and industry. Power grids provide the > access. With cost effective power transmission now reaching thousands of > kilometers, these renewable energy sources can begin to replace some of > the aging fossil and nuclear plants, as well as power the economic > development of Latin America, Africa and Asia. > > Such a visionary plan may seem fated to future generations. Yet, the > last ten years has seen international connections between the most > unlikely neighbors: East and West Germany after the fall of the Berlin > Wall, Israel and Jordan from the Washington Declaration treaty, and more > recently, cross-border grids are being built between Turkey and Iran, > Argentina and Chile, Spain and Morocco. Daily demand fluctuations are > leveled with east-to-west interconnections, and north-south linkages > level seasonal variations. The buying and selling of electricity allows > for expanded markets, provides stability and reliability to the network, > and offers multiple benefits to system operators. This international > infrastructure development fosters trade, cooperation and peace. > > Three decades ago, the United Nations and numerous experts corroborated > this development strategy. At that time, Cold War politics stymied any > real progress. Now the enemy has become pollution, overpopulation, > poverty and nuclear proliferation. To put out these fires we've held the > Earth Summit in Rio, the Population Summit in Cairo, the Social Summit > in Copenhagen, the Women's Summit In Beijing and the Cities Summit in > Istanbul. Yet the problems persist and escalate every year. It's time > for a new approach. > > Attacking these issues as separate problems ignores the nature of our > interconnected society. It's time to ask the bigger question: how do we > make it work for all humanity and the environment? The solutions are > guaranteed to offer a better cure than the recent global prognosis. > > END > > -- > The Global Energy Network Institute focuses on the interconnection of > electric power networks between nations and continents, with an emphasis > on tapping abundant renewable energy resources. This strategy is the > highest priority of the World Game simulation developed by Dr. > uckminster Fuller three decades ago. > TEL: 619-595-0139 peter@geni.org http://www.geni.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 09:36:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 18-AUG-2002 9:36 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us that link does work at the SMPL, now. if no-one else can get it, then that'd confirm my hunch, that a spurious deletion by some one of a copy of a letter that I got from SM's PEN, that I'd posted on my main page, was a ruse -- to make me think that folks in europe could see my site, as I saw it. paranoia strikes hard & deep? thus quoht: >read the following: > >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > >with my Mac. Will you copy and email it to me directly? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:21:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that link does work at the SMPL, now. if no-one else can get it, then that'd confirm my hunch, that a spurious deletion by some one of a copy of a letter that I got from SM's PEN, that I'd posted on my main page, was a ruse -- to make me think that folks in europe could see my site, as I saw it. paranoia strikes hard & deep? thus quoht: >read the following: > >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > >with my Mac. Will you copy and email it to me directly? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:24:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: any cure for double postings? Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed thus saith: > have you ever thought, > "what if the great-railroad-cricle trackings > of a GENI had caused the magnetic poles > to be reversed?" > tehy hadn't, either! > > From: Peter > > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:33:32 -0700 > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: No cure for a sick world? > > > > GENI will be participating in the upcoming Johannesburg Summit on > > Sustainable Development, August 26 - Sept. 4th. Go to > > http://www.johannesburgsummit.org for more details. The following > > article will be distributed and makes the case for Bucky's premier > > strategy from the World Game. Please feel free to share this piece with > > your own mail list. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:52:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 797 Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed NB, re the foregoing (quoted): it is not so much a matter of primality, as of divisibility. sin't that a nice dystinction? the conjecture is easily proven with graph-paper, and merely gives endless examples via programming. >your conjecture, below, is not silly in the least; >it's an embodiment of the definition of primality, and >it's a well-known result (sic). it is easy to prove, >at any rate, without recourse to computers, and >you can always look it "up" in abook on numbertheory, if >you don't configure it (that's how one learns proofin .-) oy hiel; double the lengths, quadruple the areas, octuple the volumes -- whatever the shape! thus quoth: >Take a tet, any tet. Find radius of its sphere. Double the radius of >the sphere and keep the vertexes of the tet in their same location on >the sphere as it expands. Is the area of the second tet(n-2)^2 greater >than the area of the little tet? I think so. Does this bear on the >problem? I don't know. re below, both the 5- and 6-verticed "equidistributions" are alike the ball-packings, and the max. "central angle" is 90 degrees thus saith: >look at the case for 5 vertices (a trigonal bipyramid) and >6 vertices (a tetragonal or "square" bipoyramid, a.k.a. octahedron. >if it's the same for 11 and 12 vertices, that's news to me, >although I have configured the shape (is it "degenerate" ?-) > > 3 4 109.4712206 > 3 5 90.0000000 > 3 6 90.0000000 > 3 7 77.8695421 > 3 8 74.8584922 > 3 9 70.5287794 > 3 10 66.1468220 > 3 11 63.4349488 > 3 12 63.4349488 > so, have you become a member of the Lost Tribe o'Wolframites? > remember, his daddy named an element! > >http://www.research.att.com/~njas/packings/index.html#I re below, these round-offs like 0.35355 have no significants -- til you fins any via hypotheses; did you make any? the same applies to Cathie's silly-ass decimal "grid." thus saith: >(sqrt2)/2 is sqrt(1/2); "cubed" it is (1/2)^(3/2). >the old tokenism of "rationalizing the divizor" generally obfuscates, >perhaps especially when removing "imaginaries" from it. now, >the rounded-off figure of 0.35355 has no significance, >what so ever!... also, as I just stated, the "lines going through coordinates" thing is a matter of divisibility; so, the observation that the line won't "hit" any other centers, before the prime one, is the same. thus quoth: >I think Steve is not looking for centers with prime coordinates, he's >looking for centers at root (prime) distances. Here's an extract of a >message I wrote him July 27 "Primes for the taking" when he asked >before. I think he did not follow my argument because it assumes Urner >generator scaling and rotation. >Do I understand -- for any Wn where n is prime, you think a line drawn >from the center sphere to the last spheres added (the outermost ones) >will not pass thru the center of any other spheres. > >If the line DID pass thru an inner sphere, the outer sphere >coordinates would have to be multiples of the inner sphere's >coordinates. Like, if the inner sphere on the line were at x,y,z, then >the outer sphere might be at 2x,2y,2z or 143x,143y,143z or cx,cy,cz. > >If c*c(x*x + y*y+ z*z) = n and n is prime (and x,y,z,c are integers), >then c must be 1. So, the first sphere the line hits is the outermost >one. cool; who uncoverd that Sloane listing; Steve? thus quoth: >I don't see how that could be. Watermans have spheres at every >root whole number distance except those in Sloane A004215 (doubled). > >From geometry-research: >http://www.mathforum.com/epigone/geometry-research/querdzhehang >(2 Nov 2001) >==== > > >>> def gauss(max): > t = 0 > blacklist = [] > while 1: > s = 1 > n = 4**t * (8*s - 1) > if n>max: break > while 1: > blacklist.append(n) > s += 1 > n = 4**t * (8*s - 1) > if n>max: break > t += 1 > blacklist.sort() > return blacklist > > >>> def nowaterman(max): > return [2*i for i in gauss(max//2)] > > > >>> nowaterman(1000) > [14, 30, 46, 56, 62, 78, 94, 110, 120, 126, 142, 158, 174, 184, 190, > 206, 222, 224, 238, 248, 254, 270, 286, 302, 312, 318, 334, 350, 366, > 376, 382, 398, 414, 430, 440, 446, 462, 478, 480, 494, 504, 510, 526, > 542, 558, 568, 574, 590, 606, 622, 632, 638, 654, 670, 686, 696, 702, > 718, 734, 736, 750, 760, 766, 782, 798, 814, 824, 830, 846, 862, 878, > 888, 894, 896, 910, 926, 942, 952, 958, 974, 990, 992] > >In other words, there will be no Waterman polyhedron with distances >root(14) from (0,0,0), or root(30) and so on. > >====== >Note that Sloane's uses a slightly different formula: >"Numbers of the form 4^i(8j+7), i >= 0, j >= 0." >http://www.research.att.com/cgi- >bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=A004215 --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:54:35 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed To Whom It Concerneth; Thanks for having “accessed” my paper/flyer on geometry, as written to explain a poster for the Spring 2001 SoCal meeting – the first one of the 3rd millennium CCE; like dame Jo, yeeha – of the MAA. Note, though, that it is meant to be printed: it goes close to all o’the margins of 8.5x11” paper, and I have the exact-same problem, on library sErfterms, with the trade-off between resolution & scrolling forth-and- back, alas. (The question is, Can you see it on my site, now, or are there “problems?”) In the paper, as I have tried to state repeatedly (but My floppy and/or the Matrix were not allowing it), the paper introduces the coinage of “-asteron,” following upon Bucky’s not-quite-all-there/Post-humorous uncovery of the “-vertexion” usage. My paper explains all o’that and, as they Universally say, Mo’. Thus far, I have earned nothing but virtual ****, including the putative attempt of sir Michael and his British U. cohorts to grok the duality of trigona with 3-way vertices – as simple as it is. (If one looks – with a good microscope at about 400x – at a tiny, obfuscative box in a recent *Nude Scientist*, you’ll see that this problem is manifest amongst the smallest of the C-sub-n fullerenes, which is habitually dyscribed in the literature of “minimalized interdystance points on a sphere,” as “two parallel squares, rotated 45 degrees to each-other,” a.k.a. the tetragonal (“square”) antiprism – even though they may not be proper, regular tetragona. (It is even possible that the paper on which *that* was based, is a hoax of “n-D algorithms.”) Brian “Quincy” Hutchings P.O.Box 701, Santa Monica, CA 90406-0701 thus quoth: >I was able to download it a month ago when you implied it was relevant >to something I asked or said. I viewed it on a Mac using Adobe >PhotoDeluxe. Folks puzzling how to display a .PCX should think of it >as an 800K graphics file that could be replaced with an 8K (my guess) >text file or html file if you would take the trouble to retype it. I >found that by zooming in with Adobe the fonts did become big enough to >read, but by then the document was so wide that much scrolling left >and right would be required. That would be particularly tedious and >confusing, given the close spacing of the lines, WIDE lines, no >margins, no indents, one huge page, etc. Before reading it I was >pissed at how hard >it was to find on your cluttered page given the sparse clue you gave >me instead of a URL. I already expected time-consuming semantic > >> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:59:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Hutchings kept off ballot, again? Comments: To: ccneditor@aol.com, Mirror200@aol.com, sack@smdp.com Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Letter to Editors or PRESS RELEASE? (I’ve never done a PR, before; thanks) The City of Santa Monica has kept me off of the ballot for the third time, based on a bad technicality. I was on the ballot for Council in ’98. The next two times, I was not allowed to give my papers of nomination to the City Clerk, because I was late by a few moments, only according to a recent and totally unrelated Ordinance, and against the clear intent of the State Elections Code. The Ordinance was revised, last January, to reflect this, without any mention of Mr. Procrastinator, myself! Now, although I’d have known, those last times, if the Clerk had reviewed my papers, I’ve been disqualified because of the wrong residential address – even though it’s immaterial. Let’s get this out: I’m homeless, and it’s not just-because of a ruse that my landlord did with Legal Aid, which kept me from using them. The point is, I felt there was no reason to change the address, since I still vote at the Thelma Terry Center in Virginia Park, til such time as I *get* a new, residential one (P.O.Boxes are not allowed, although the Asst. City Attorney said, almost anything else is O.K.) I’m running for SM/MUSD Schoolboard member, on what I refer to as a “Classical” curriculum, although what that is, really has to be determined over the course of argument with the founding parental units (I have no kids). Brian “Quincy” Hutchings P.O.Box 701, Santa Monica, CA 90406-0701 --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 02:26:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the following may be a misapprehension o'Bucky. the "vectors" between spheres are only between those that are "kissing." he also did not cover any of the cases beyond second base, including "coverings" o'space. thus quoth: >and 2) he eliminates the six struts that existed prior to his unjustifiable >jump. ("Omnitriangulating" the 13-spherecenters (strut-matrix) does not >eliminate the missing diagonals; it instead *requires* them. Later, he >just quietly dispenses with them --which makes perfect sense: they >would have been "inconvenient" to reaching his forecast/intended goal.) the primary interest is it's relationship to quaternions, although there may be a better term than "IVM" (or the others that are prevalent; see Coxeter's _Regular Polytopes_). thus quoth: >The VE and its evolved descendant the IVM are isolated special-case >constructs with interesting properties (they surely interested *him*), >which >lack capacity to handle either general-case globalization (missing struts) >or containment-resistance other than orthogonal/hexagonal (can't handle >spherical-force pressures). --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 03:00:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dear thou concerneth/consternate; I've added a couple of things to this, and I'm also sorry about the little blocks that replace a dash and "smart quotes" from MSWord; I really wich that it were an ASCII dealy! thus quoth: >I'm planning to update the Fuller FAQ > in the next few months. To Whom It Doth Concern; Thanks for having “accessed” my paper/flyer on geometry, as written to explain a poster for the Spring 2001 SoCal meeting – the first one of the 3rd millennium CCE; like dame Jo, yeeha – of the MAA. Note, though, that it is meant to be printed: it goes close to all o’the margins of 8.5x11” paper, and I have the exact-same problem, on library sErfterms, with the trade-off between resolution & scrolling forth-and- back, alas. (I put the flyer in facsimile form for two reasons: a) the floppy crapped-out and b) the Word file had to be printed, because of some funny fonts. The main question of my concern is, Can you see it on my site, now, or are there “problems?”) As I have tried to state repeatedly (but My floppy and/or the Matrix were not allowing it), the paper introduces the coinage of “-asteron,” following upon Bucky’s not-quite-all-there and “Post-humorous” uncovery of the “-vertexion” usage. My paper explains all o’that and, as they Universally say, Mo’. Thus far, I have earned nothing but virtual ****, including the putative attempt of sir Michael and his British U. cohorts to grok the duality of trigona with 3-way vertices – as simple as it is. (If one looks – with a good microscope at about 400x – at a tiny, obfuscative box in a recent *Nude Scientist*, you’ll see that this problem is manifest amongst the smallest of the C-sub-n fullerenes, which is habitually dyscribed in the literature of “minimalized interdystance points on a sphere,” as “two parallel squares, rotated 45 degrees to each-other,” a.k.a. the tetragonal (“square”) antiprism – even though they may not be proper, regular tetragona. (It is even possible that the paper on which *that* was based, is a hoax of “n-D algorithms.”) As far as my page, http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html, goes, there are supposed to be three large balloons with the words, in large type, “Cosmometrical Constance,” “A Curriculum Vitum,” and “le prochaine theoreme de Fermat;” if there are not, then some thing “up” there is messing with your view of it – although everything looks 99.44% kosher from a few public libraries that I go to. There could be various reasons for this, some of them even somewhat good (from the point de view of my sorry butt .-) The “Cosmometrical Constance” page is supposed To be directly accessible via this URL: http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Cosmo.PCX. (As that was the first fac that I’d ever made of this sort, it happens to be of a somewhat obscure form of image-file. Here will be fa brief “history of distribution:” Brian “Quincy” Hutchings P.O.Box 701, Santa Monica, CA 90406-0701 "WATER!" > -- Helen Keller > >Christopher J. Fearnley | Linux/Internet/Web Consulting >Chris@CJFearnley.com | Design Science Revolutionary >http://www.CJFearnley.com | Explorer in Universe > "Dare to be Naïve" -- Bucky Fuller --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 04:00:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 798 Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed wow; I finally realized that the missing dystances (integer-roots) in the IVM are simply those numbers, per the "four square theorem," that require four second-powered integers in the sum (most need just 3) -- which I didn't think was proven by Gauss. I guess, that's what the "Sloan" listing will say, as well. that's an old problem that's interested me in numbertheory, as in Dickson * Little's big book. it also is solved with quaternions, I think. >thus quoth: > >I don't see how that could be. Watermans have spheres at every > >root whole number distance except those in Sloane A004215 (doubled). > > > >From geometry-research: > >http://www.mathforum.com/epigone/geometry-research/querdzhehang > >(2 Nov 2001) > >Note that Sloane's uses a slightly different formula: > >"Numbers of the form 4^i(8j+7), i >= 0, j >= 0." > >http://www.research.att.com/cgi- > >bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=A004215 oy hiel; double the lengths, quadruple the areas, octuple the volumes -- whatever the shape! >thus quoth: > >Take a tet, any tet. Find radius of its sphere. Double the radius of > >the sphere and keep the vertexes of the tet in their same location on > >the sphere as it expands. Is the area of the second tet(n-2)^2 greater > >than the area of the little tet? I think so. Does this bear on the > >problem? I don't know. re below, both the 5- and 6-verticed "equidistributions" are alike the ball-packings, and the max. "central angle" is 90 degrees > > >http://www.research.att.com/~njas/packings/index.html#I the following is a monu-mental conjecture; what does it mean? thus quoth: >constant, as I do suggest, for the ccp density [.7404804 ]= the >fine structure constant (times 10^n....n being an integer.) ah, well; so much for the "inverse!" thus quoth: >The big cube edge is root 2 >the smaller cube edges are (root 2) / 2, >1/2 a smaller cube edge is (root 2)/ 4 = .35355. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:56:39 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Brian and/or Quincy, Please could you stop copying your responses to Synergeo threads to the Geodesic list? There may well be subscribers to Geodesic who have no idea why you're answering questions nobody there is raising. And for those of us subscribing to both it is needless. Those who like that kind of thematic leakage might be better off reading Mario Vargas Llosa's "Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter", which is much funnier. Many thanks, Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:41:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Eden Project photo library Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eden Project greenhouse domes pics from start to finish from Apex News & = Pics, England: http://www.apexnewspix.com/edenproject2.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:49:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Struts Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed very interesting! >Have you seen these "synetic" structures by Rick Flowerday? Seems to >me that if you allow bending, then any tensegrity strut AND its >tensioning cable can be replaced with a bow. > >However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I understood to be >the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an element that >combines tension on one side with compression on the other, and >presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle of the member >which is not in tension OR compression. > >I forget the URL but Joe Moore has posted a photo of Bucky standing by >his (last?) "tensegrity", a wooden model with no cables and >interpenetrating struts that also I think combine tension and >compression in one element. I am not sure if there is any compressive >force between two struts where they cross each other. I have doubts >whether the structural principles Bucky used to define "tensegrity" >survived as he kept applying that word to more varied structures. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:20:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 20-AUG-2002 9:20 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is GC to major Taylor. I don't see your point, there, Paul. I do try to get a bit of the respondee's words in, to provide context, but if they don't get it, they can ask. as for who uses both lists, I have no idea how to get the membership of either one; is it all of one or the other? thus quoth: And for those of us subscribing to both it is needless. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 23:29:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: To: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the degree of ad hominemania on this list is some thing. when you're ready to address the contents of the flyer -- probably first ignoring the dated material that seems, as I recall, to be clearly delineated from the meat o'the matter -- then I'd like to here your comments, and betterments there-of. as of now, I stick with the usage, "polyasteron.!" --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:53:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Struts In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Don't forget. Tension and compression happen at the same time, always and without exception. How fine a scale do you want to consider? I don't see any contradiction. What is it? Dick > >Have you seen these "synetic" structures by Rick > Flowerday? Seems to > >me that if you allow bending, then any tensegrity strut > AND its > >tensioning cable can be replaced with a bow. > > > >However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I > understood to be > >the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an > element that > >combines tension on one side with compression on the > other, and > >presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle of > the member > >which is not in tension OR compression. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:56:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Struts In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Don't forget. Tension and compression happen at the same time, always and without exception. How fine a scale do you want to consider? I don't see any contradiction. What is it? Dick > >Have you seen these "synetic" structures by Rick > Flowerday? Seems to > >me that if you allow bending, then any tensegrity strut > AND its > >tensioning cable can be replaced with a bow. > > > >However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I > understood to be > >the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an > element that > >combines tension on one side with compression on the > other, and > >presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle of > the member > >which is not in tension OR compression. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 02:10:33 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian In-Reply-To: <200208201620.g7KGK5o31388@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 20/8/02 17:20, Brian Hutchings at r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US wrote: > I don't see your point, there, Paul. > I do try to get a bit of the respondee's words in, > to provide context, but if they don't get it, they can ask. > as for who uses both lists, I have no idea > how to get the membership of either one; > is it all of one or the other? > > thus quoth: > And for those of us subscribing to both it is needless. If I were to subscribe to two lists, one about Star Trek and one about snooker, then when I replied to postings about Klingons I wouldn't bother the snooker list with that reply. And vice versa. I know that Geodesic and Synergeo both discuss Fuller, but there are different threads (topics, discussions) on each list, and someone can subscribe to one and not the other. They're different lists. So: what is the point of copying your responses from one list to the other? This doesn't happen automatically, or magically: it happens because you deliberately do it that way. I'm asking you to stop cross-posting because Geodesic list subscribers are getting fragments (yours) of a discussion that is not happening on their list. And those subscribing to both are getting the same message twice. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 03:42:43 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: cc: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Kirby, you Big Silly Goose; How many times does one have to repeat himself, to make the simplest matters audible?… I’ll type it, again, just so that you won’t say that I just couldn’t seem to do so: Bucky’s/Kiyoshi’s not-fully-realized lexicon, as introduced in _Cosmography_ (an explicit reference to Kepler’s book), of "polyvertexion" amounts, really, to recognizing the *duals* to the shapes that are made of all-regular facets: the ones that have all, regular *vertices*, a.k.a. the CATALAN SOLIDS. (This is apposite to how I apply *les mots neuveaux*, though, and my application's what justifies the come-on title, "A New World Hors d'Ouerve" – as represented to the folks at the CSU meeting o'the MAA – if not "Cosmometrical Constance," as later on my site .-) I should have also noted: the flyer is typographically explicit, to lead the eye through the dated & provincial "header" material; thus, a garbage-out OCR transcript thereof is awfully obfuscatory. (It’s easier to just retype it, as I;ve done that, before; that will be noted in my "distribution history.") Also, note that a better category for the fullerenes is, "C-sub-2n" (not C-sub-n), as directly relatable to the deltahedra (or the gamma-astera, per the "old" models of carbon-based units – but there's really not any difference between them, other than emphasis .-) [NB: this is some thing that has eluded "Dick," the whole time that he was fuming about "vertons," although he's "right" about that one thing, at the least; in any case, it doesn't apply to fullerenes !-] As for "Austin Powers," whether or not it was actually the favorite movie of the President, he/it is represented, I think, under the button "Harrydemort," at /bloodsugarSkotsmagik.html in my site, if only obliquely (and I think that I’ve got some explicit words on there, or else where, as well, if not as X-rated .-) The primary thing is to ask, What is the subtext of the Powers movies?, and especially to ask, What is the *premise*, that is the same as a "James Bond" one? As for its source, "Harry-the-Potter" and "The Lord of the Rings," also entirely British projects – the latter, paid-for by New Zealand, like Canada, a dominionate of Betty Dos – are distributed by the very same, Earth’s largest media conglome. (Note: from the one that I’ve seen, having been given a ticket: the very last (British) "visual effects house" that is listed in the credits for "HtP and the Philosopher’s (sic) Stone," and without any personnel as for the others, is called "Industrial Smoke and Mirrors," and their website didn’t list it as one of their projects. As with clues *re* the scriptwriter’s being an "unhappy ghost," I’d say that dame Jo is a de-facto officer of that "house, ltd.," as well as a young witch of the Potter "nobile" or coven, if it exists.) *o* *a*e **e *uee*; we mean it, Man! --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:17:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I agree with Paul. It may not make a difference much longer anyway because if Quin doesn't behave himself, Kirby will happily boot him off the synergeo list. Nobody likes crossposting unless there is a very good reason. At least Quin has cut down on the quaker-peace crossposts. He seems to be picking up on what is obnoxious and what is not. I hope he figures it out. Dick > I'm asking you to stop cross-posting because Geodesic > list subscribers are > getting fragments (yours) of a discussion that is not > happening on their > list. And those subscribing to both are getting the same > message twice. > > > Paul Taylor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:14:26 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Paul, That is a good point. Half a thread is like listening to half a phone conversation. Luckily we can be selective in what we read. -Tony. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Taylor [mailto:pt@NOUS.ORG.UK] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 8:11 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian on 20/8/02 17:20, Brian Hutchings at r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US wrote: > I don't see your point, there, Paul. > I do try to get a bit of the respondee's words in, > to provide context, but if they don't get it, they can ask. > as for who uses both lists, I have no idea > how to get the membership of either one; > is it all of one or the other? > > thus quoth: > And for those of us subscribing to both it is needless. If I were to subscribe to two lists, one about Star Trek and one about snooker, then when I replied to postings about Klingons I wouldn't bother the snooker list with that reply. And vice versa. I know that Geodesic and Synergeo both discuss Fuller, but there are different threads (topics, discussions) on each list, and someone can subscribe to one and not the other. They're different lists. So: what is the point of copying your responses from one list to the other? This doesn't happen automatically, or magically: it happens because you deliberately do it that way. I'm asking you to stop cross-posting because Geodesic list subscribers are getting fragments (yours) of a discussion that is not happening on their list. And those subscribing to both are getting the same message twice. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:33:04 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Struts Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rigid Tensegrities: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tensegrity-Rigid.jpg http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/00-SelectrdIdeas-TOC.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quincy Quincy Quincy" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Struts > very interesting! > > >Have you seen these "synetic" structures by Rick Flowerday? Seems to > >me that if you allow bending, then any tensegrity strut AND its > >tensioning cable can be replaced with a bow. > > > >However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I understood to be > >the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an element that > >combines tension on one side with compression on the other, and > >presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle of the member > >which is not in tension OR compression. > > > >I forget the URL but Joe Moore has posted a photo of Bucky standing by > >his (last?) "tensegrity", a wooden model with no cables and > >interpenetrating struts that also I think combine tension and > >compression in one element. I am not sure if there is any compressive > >force between two struts where they cross each other. I have doubts > >whether the structural principles Bucky used to define "tensegrity" > >survived as he kept applying that word to more varied structures. > > --SIGHnS! > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:14:54 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [note: why didn't I get any digest, this morning?] so, have you tried 3D Billiards, yet? seriously, I am not about to waste my fingers on duplicating thoughts *pro forma* and from scratch, just because a few folks get whiney. as for the Quaker-P list, the moderator kicked me off for using Certain Words, although they're perfectly OK in all venues, as far as the FCC cares (they don't seem to want to do *any* thing to stop Murdoch et al British goons; PBS should mean, Public Boarding School, if you know the Brit lingo .-) thus quoth: >I know that Geodesic and Synergeo both discuss Fuller, but there are >different threads (topics, discussions) on each list, and someone can >subscribe to one and not the other. They're different lists. > >So: what is the point of copying your responses from one list to the other? >This doesn't happen automatically, or magically: it happens because you >deliberately do it that way. indeed, and I did get carried away with the relative ease of using something else other than PEN. if you belong to more than one list, that's only your problem -- unless you want to rouse a jacobin mob to get me off of one! --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:51:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, *I* dyscerned the Buckafka Agenda to be what is usually known as "one-world government;" God save the queen, if possible or necessary -- oy heil! as for this contretemps concerning kissing spheres, I don't know of any analysis of the "...spheres into spaces..." that tries to see what they'd be doing, but that might be a good idea. thus quoth: If one reads his method of packing the "first 13" spheres, one sees that all *are* kissing, up to the sphere where he makes his "leap of faith." --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:57:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: To: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the following is what is known as 'taking out of context," and inserting garbage in the interim, thanks to the wonders of "optical character assassination." thus quoth: Anyway, you've certainly cleared the way for Chris Fearnley to update the Fuller FAQ with Brian's insights. For example: >Oy heil!... While Bucky rejected, as the potential 5~ Generation >Hahvahdite, what the ~vyteague had early become, \ / >he had apparently swallowed the empirical school of the Vanderbilt U. >~ritish JIntellicence (M~6?) of ficer, A. Toynbee, V >in his ``speculativet, pre-historical stuff and his ``apolitical', >nation-bashing. Like either Sir/Son ~eorge and his Floating >CabinetmembRr~cum >IlIAN-(~'OA77~4 Umndictee-SiRS l#l cum 'WAND' Corp. Triumvirate, >R13Fapparently knewest not the definition of the word, ~(~ W)ll](; O --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:00:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Struts In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe- Is there any more info on this photo, the one at: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm It is very similar in its initial appearance to the curved-strut structure at: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=7 Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Rigid Tensegrities: > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tensegrity-Rigid.jpg > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/00-SelectrdIdeas-TOC.htm > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Quincy Quincy Quincy" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:49 PM > Subject: Re: Struts > > > > very interesting! > > > > >Have you seen these "synetic" structures by Rick > Flowerday? Seems to > > >me that if you allow bending, then any tensegrity > strut AND its > > >tensioning cable can be replaced with a bow. > > > > > >However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I > understood to be > > >the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an > element that > > >combines tension on one side with compression on the > other, and > > >presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle of > the member > > >which is not in tension OR compression. > > > > > >I forget the URL but Joe Moore has posted a photo of > Bucky standing by > > >his (last?) "tensegrity", a wooden model with no > cables and > > >interpenetrating struts that also I think combine > tension and > > >compression in one element. I am not sure if there is > any compressive > > >force between two struts where they cross each other. > I have doubts > > >whether the structural principles Bucky used to define > "tensegrity" > > >survived as he kept applying that word to more varied > structures. > > > > --SIGHnS! > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:06:38 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: Struts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the Tridome is made with straight struts, the shoebox with curved ones. Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Joe- Is there any more info on this photo, the one at: > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > > It is very similar in its initial appearance to the > curved-strut structure at: > > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=7 > > Dick > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > >>Rigid Tensegrities: >> >> >> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tensegrity-Rigid.jpg > >> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/00-SelectrdIdeas-TOC.htm > >> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > >>============================== >>Joe S Moore >>joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >>============================= >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Quincy Quincy Quincy" >>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:49 PM >>Subject: Re: Struts >> >> >> >>>very interesting! >>> >>> >>>>Have you seen these "synetic" structures by Rick >>>> >>Flowerday? Seems to >> >>>>me that if you allow bending, then any tensegrity >>>> >>strut AND its >> >>>>tensioning cable can be replaced with a bow. >>>> >>>>However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I >>>> >>understood to be >> >>>>the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an >>>> >>element that >> >>>>combines tension on one side with compression on the >>>> >>other, and >> >>>>presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle of >>>> >>the member >> >>>>which is not in tension OR compression. >>>> >>>>I forget the URL but Joe Moore has posted a photo of >>>> >>Bucky standing by >> >>>>his (last?) "tensegrity", a wooden model with no >>>> >>cables and >> >>>>interpenetrating struts that also I think combine >>>> >>tension and >> >>>>compression in one element. I am not sure if there is >>>> >>any compressive >> >>>>force between two struts where they cross each other. >>>> >>I have doubts >> >>>>whether the structural principles Bucky used to define >>>> >>"tensegrity" >> >>>>survived as he kept applying that word to more varied >>>> >>structures. >> >>>--SIGHnS! >>> >>> > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:43:06 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Bonnifield Subject: Re: Struts Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Don't forget. Tension and compression happen at the same time, always and > without exception. My concern was not about tension and compression happening at different TIMES; I thought "tensile integrity" meant that tension and compression were separated into different members. > How fine a scale do you want to consider? At the scale of the whole structure, I want to see which members are in tension and which are in compression. At the scale of an individual member, I'm interested in whether the tension or compression changes in the cross section of the member. I'm also interested in smaller scales, if there is an explanation to be found why a material is strong in one mode or the other. > I don't see any contradiction. What is it? I guess you mean why do I think struts which bend, or struts which touch, or members that are in tension on one side of the member cross section and in compression on the other side -- why none of those situations are compatible with the original notion of "tensegrity". Well, I take it back. A quick look thru Synergetics index "tensegrity" entry does not show me the clear statement of those principles that I thought was there. It's easier to find references to "integrity" referring only to the continuous nature of the tension net. There are many references to "islands of compression" but touching is OK in situations where touching compression members are not pushing on each other. (Separate radial struts impinging on a compressed hub would not be OK, I think, altho diameter struts could touch as they crossed each other at the center. And I think some of Snelson's earliest "floating compression structures" used compressive members like crosses with rigid hubs.) I did see a paragraph pointing out how bending struts may fail. I did not see a mention of what I took to be the MAIN problem that tensegrity solves -- members strictly only in compression or only in tension can use their full cross-section for strength. That is always the way it is with straight tension cables. But where did I read this about struts: if they have bending stresses (like a horizontal lintel supported between two vertical posts) they're in compression on the inside of the bend, they're in tension on the outside of the bend. The material in between -- most of the cross section -- is not in much tension or compression, the force gets smaller as the section is closer to the middle of the member. If you look at a bending strut with a round cross section, there is a diameter which is neutral between tension and compression, where the material is not contributing to the strength of the strut. The compressive force is borne entirely by the inside edge, while it would be borne by the entire cross section if the strut were not subjected to bending stress. I didn't make this up; I wish I remember where I read it. I'm sure the author made the point that that is the reason "I-beams" are shaped the way they are. They have broad flanges at the surfaces that must resist bending and an economical web connecting them. That way the neutral axis is going thru the thinnest part of the material, unlike with a round strut where the neutral axis is on a diameter, the thickest part. I-beams are more economical with material that way. However I did not spot in Synergetics any concern with wasteful use of strut material from designs that put bending stresses on struts. Regarding the structures that I was thinking of as pure tensegrities (like the 100+ pound 12 strut cuboctahedron I have) where struts are purely in compression, I am more aligned with Kenneth Snelson's attitude that they are a celebration of aesthetics rather than that they are the basis for strong structures. I didn't realize it until I built one heavy enough for the kinesthetics to sink in -- the compressive force on each strut is more than the entire weight of the structure. So effective use of the entire cross section of the strut (3" tulip poplar trunks in my case) is not a guaranty of strong structure because most of the strength of the strut is directed (thru the tension network) toward crushing the other struts, not toward supporting a load on the whole structure. The same 12 struts used in a post-and-lintel cube would support much more weight, with tension diagonals for stability. As for Bucky's notion of tensegrity, I should back out of saying anything specific. I understand from 700.04 that every structure is a tensegrity, and from (2)790.11 that everything is a structure, including clouds and political systems. So I guess "tensegrity" applies to everything and I probably don't need the word, it goes without saying. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:28:06 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: adjustable triangles Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed don't confuse the VE and its 12 "vectors" from the center -- the word is used to mean "only what Bucky means, in each only-specialized case that Bucky uses it" -- with the Jitterbug, which doesn't have them. for that matter, the "...spheres into spaces..." model doesn't have them, either; it's actual elements are Dreher's hinges. thus saith: > > If one reads his method of packing the "first 13" spheres, > > one sees that all *are* kissing, up to the sphere > > where he makes his "leap of faith." ahem; the following is referred-to, in Buckyville, as an "expanded (tensegrity) octahedron." thus quoth: >"Right you are. My only interest in this territory at the moment is to >make clear that Fuller's tensegrity icosahedron is not regular. I look at >you as the source for keeping this tension/compression, tensegrity info >accurate." --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:43:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 801 Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's called an "expanded (tensegrity) octahedron;" see _S_, or the book by Pugh (or whom?).... OK; having searched the _S_ index, it's not in there: who do you think created the term, mister Braley? thus quoth: >In the first view of this tensegrity icosa there are 24 edges. It >appears to be regular. > >http://www.ms.uky.edu/~lee/as153/tens8a.jpg --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:51:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: lousy rotten upgrade (KMM3033650V52619L0KM) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed why have I gotten no response, for weeks on end? thus quoth: >Thank you for your feedback. I have forwarded your comments to our Product >Team so that they can consider it as they plan for a future release. >Riley >Homestead Support >[Case #1204794] >Details are: >I'm using pubsErfterms, so that >I cannot *use* "offline SB." > in my estimation, >very few of us actually use the online thing, but >does that justify making it harder to use >with an "upgrade?" > >I'd like HS to call SMPL's hardware guy, and >deal with *him*, instead of me. surely, >this may apply to many other pubsErfterms. > >here y'go: 310-458­8625 >macosta@pen.ci.santa-monica.ca.us. > >at the minimum, without bothering him, >HS could simply put the button >for actually loading the online SB, >on the very first post-sign-up page -- >PLEASE? > >I do want some extra time for this annoyance; >you can see how it is, >not having set-up rights at a pubsErfterm; >can you? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:23:45 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 21/8/02 20:14, Quincy Quincy Quincy at space998@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > if you belong > to more than one list, that's only your problem -- > unless you want to rouse a jacobin mob to get me off of one! Brian, It's not about exclusion or banishment. Just stop copying your Synergeo messages to Geodesic, please, for the reasons I've suggested (three times). Many thanks, Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:53:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Struts In-Reply-To: <3D6400DE.7010006@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Where'd you get the name Tridome, Steve? Was that at Joe's site? Interestingly, the structure in the shoebox is made with bowed struts, but after assembly the tension elements of each bowed strut can be removed. The struts would try to straighten out but would not be able to. Dick --- Steve Miller wrote: > the Tridome is made with straight struts, the shoebox > with curved ones. > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > Joe- Is there any more info on this photo, the one at: > > > > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > > > > It is very similar in its initial appearance to the > > curved-strut structure at: > > > > > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=7 > > > > Dick > > > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > > >>Rigid Tensegrities: > >> > >> > >> > > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tensegrity-Rigid.jpg > > > >> > > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/00-SelectrdIdeas-TOC.htm > > > >> > > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > > > >>============================== > >>Joe S Moore > >>joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > >>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > >>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > >>============================= > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Quincy Quincy Quincy" > >>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > >>To: > >>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:49 PM > >>Subject: Re: Struts > >> > >> > >> > >>>very interesting! > >>> > >>> > >>>>Have you seen these "synetic" structures by Rick > >>>> > >>Flowerday? Seems to > >> > >>>>me that if you allow bending, then any tensegrity > >>>> > >>strut AND its > >> > >>>>tensioning cable can be replaced with a bow. > >>>> > >>>>However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I > >>>> > >>understood to be > >> > >>>>the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an > >>>> > >>element that > >> > >>>>combines tension on one side with compression on the > >>>> > >>other, and > >> > >>>>presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle > of > >>>> > >>the member > >> > >>>>which is not in tension OR compression. > >>>> > >>>>I forget the URL but Joe Moore has posted a photo of > >>>> > >>Bucky standing by > >> > >>>>his (last?) "tensegrity", a wooden model with no > >>>> > >>cables and > >> > >>>>interpenetrating struts that also I think combine > >>>> > >>tension and > >> > >>>>compression in one element. I am not sure if there > is > >>>> > >>any compressive > >> > >>>>force between two struts where they cross each other. > >>>> > >>I have doubts > >> > >>>>whether the structural principles Bucky used to > define > >>>> > >>"tensegrity" > >> > >>>>survived as he kept applying that word to more varied > >>>> > >>structures. > >> > >>>--SIGHnS! > >>> > >>> > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > > http://www.hotjobs.com > > > > > > > -- > Formactive: > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2040 08:42:28 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: Struts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from the web address Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Where'd you get the name Tridome, Steve? Was that at Joe's > site? > > Interestingly, the structure in the shoebox is made with > bowed struts, but after assembly the tension elements of > each bowed strut can be removed. The struts would try to > straighten out but would not be able to. > > Dick > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > >>the Tridome is made with straight struts, the shoebox >>with curved ones. >> >>Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> >> >>>Joe- Is there any more info on this photo, the one at: >>> >>> >>> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > >>>It is very similar in its initial appearance to the >>>curved-strut structure at: >>> >>> >>> > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=7 > >>>Dick >>> >>>--- Joe S Moore wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Rigid Tensegrities: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tensegrity-Rigid.jpg > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/00-SelectrdIdeas-TOC.htm > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > >>>>============================== >>>>Joe S Moore >>>>joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >>>>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >>>>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >>>>============================= >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Quincy Quincy Quincy" >>>>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>>>To: >>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:49 PM >>>>Subject: Re: Struts >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>very interesting! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Have you seen these "synetic" structures by Rick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>Flowerday? Seems to >>>> >>>> >>>>>>me that if you allow bending, then any tensegrity >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>strut AND its >>>> >>>> >>>>>>tensioning cable can be replaced with a bow. >>>>>> >>>>>>However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>understood to be >>>> >>>> >>>>>>the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>element that >>>> >>>> >>>>>>combines tension on one side with compression on the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>other, and >>>> >>>> >>>>>>presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle >>>>>> >>of >> >>>>the member >>>> >>>> >>>>>>which is not in tension OR compression. >>>>>> >>>>>>I forget the URL but Joe Moore has posted a photo of >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>Bucky standing by >>>> >>>> >>>>>>his (last?) "tensegrity", a wooden model with no >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>cables and >>>> >>>> >>>>>>interpenetrating struts that also I think combine >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>tension and >>>> >>>> >>>>>>compression in one element. I am not sure if there >>>>>> >>is >> >>>>any compressive >>>> >>>> >>>>>>force between two struts where they cross each other. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>I have doubts >>>> >>>> >>>>>>whether the structural principles Bucky used to >>>>>> >>define >> >>>>"tensegrity" >>>> >>>> >>>>>>survived as he kept applying that word to more varied >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>structures. >>>> >>>> >>>>>--SIGHnS! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs >>>http://www.hotjobs.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>Formactive: >>http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:20:02 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Struts Comments: cc: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed thanks, "Dick." that about answers the question reagarding the stressment of struts. (note that this is similar to the dyscussion of the actual shape of the tensional cords (where compression is "isolated" from them in some way, instead, or "originally"), which is *not* a straight line-segment. thus quoth: Interestingly, the structure in the shoebox is made with bowed struts, but after assembly the tension elements of each bowed strut can be removed. The struts would try to straighten out but would not be able to. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:46:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: cc: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed to those it really, really concerns (ONLY); the use of my paper on geometry should not be without a review of the other flyer that I put out in conjunction, which is suppozed to be under the button, "A Curriculum Vitum" on http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html; directly, it's http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Funny.html. as before, an OCR "treatment" is going to output good, clean garbage, suitable only for fiber & gas!... anyway, this is all a part of my long-on-going campaign for schoolboard(s; I go to LAUSD meetings, as well .-) --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:56:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Indian primality thingy? Comments: To: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hey, I saw a tiny newsitem in the LATimes, and a confuzed one at that, about a supposed dyscovery of India, showing how to prove the primality of a number. has anyone seen any of it? a friend says that it's rather unimportant, as there's already a test that works for almost all primes (except, I think, for the "Carmichael numbers" or pseudoprimes). the connections between geometry and numbertheory are many and deep, with my favorite exmple being Gauss's uncovery of the significance of the Fermat primes; to wit, how is it that a heptagon is unconstructible (using compasses), whilea 17-gon is? more to the point, et le subjet de mon monologue troisieme, what in Hell does it mean, otherwise? see http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Prochaine.PCX --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:56:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Updating the Fuller FAQ Comments: cc: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [oops; changed URL] to those it really, really concerns (ONLY); the use of my paper on geometry should not be without a review of the other flyer that I put out in conjunction, which is suppozed to be under the button, "A Curriculum Vitum" on http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html; directly, it's http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Funny.PCX. as before, an OCR "treatment" is going to output good, clean garbage, suitable only for fiber & gas!... anyway, this is all a part of my long-on-going campaign for schoolboard(s; I go to LAUSD meetings, as well .-) --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:07:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Drop City and FAQ Comments: To: Sean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sean, Go to the bottom of my Home page (below) and do a search for "Drop City"; of the hits that you get, a half dozen or so should be relevant. Also, the FAQ link on the bottom of my home page should take you to the FAQ for the Geodesic List. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:40 AM Subject: Drop City and FAQ > Can anyone please direct me to info on Drop City and/or a FAQ for this group? > > thanks alot > Sean ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:59:31 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 803 Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed let's start from the bottom. I can't recall where I read of Brian Dreher's mechanism, but that's what it is (I can't recall how it works, either, but you can buy the sculpture for a cool $15K or so .-) a VE cannot jitterbug very much, becasue the tetrahedra get in the way (the half-octahedra collapse, though). clearly, this is where "expanded octah." is at, ignoring the struts; dig it?... anyway, does it have all 30 of the tensional members, cognate with teh icosah. edges? the tensegrity icosah. does come in enantiamorphic pairs; look under "turbining." some stuff just doesn't "go" simply from "cheese polyhedra" to "islanded compression." here is Fig. 724.30: http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s07/figs/f2430.html thus the Elohim spake: >And doesn't the icosahedron come in left and right hand versions?" > >The expanded octahedron tensegrity has 12 vertices, 30 edges, 20 faces. >From that perspective, it is an icosahedron. More specifically, it is a >non-convex icosahedron. Also, its vertices, as previously stated, occupy >positions identical to those of alternate vertices of a truncated >octahedron (they do not occupy positions identical to those of a regular >icosahedron). > > Who specified only 24 edges? I offered 24 cables and 6 struts. That adds >up to 30 possible edges. Do I make a mistake in arithmetic? The expanded >octahedron tensegrity -- the one that began this discussion -- is an >icosahedron. It has 12 vertices, 20 triangular faces, 8 of which are >regular, and 30 edges. > Also reference Fig. 724.30, figure >"A" in Synergetics. >1- Fig.724.30 "Behavior of Tensegrity Icosahedron", shows a drawing with >an equilateral triangular face. > >2- 724.20 Tensegrity Icosahedron. Fuller's mention of "it's >allspace-filling, closest-packing capability...". This is a description of >a trunctated octahedron. So it appears to me that Fuller was very much >aware that what he calls the tensegrity icosahedron was not a regular >icosahedron. >a verb depending on who's using it for what. You "jitterbug" a VE, or you >"jitterbug a jitterbug?" > >"Dreher's hinges" (various spellings) gets me ZIP from Google. >Care to provide an URL to an explanation of what they are? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:54:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: New Dome Manufacturer Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A new geodesic dome manufacturer: Composite Geodesic Domes Bernardston, MA, USA http://www.compgeodome.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:24:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Drop City and FAQ Comments: To: Joe S Moore Comments: cc: synergeo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Joe Please update your reference to me if you would to include the link: http://www.washedashore.com/randome/ I've tons more to do to make the site what I want, but people could find me easier if you update my contact. I know how many folks find there way to Bucky's work through your site and I'd like to be a part of that. Thanks. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Sean, > > Go to the bottom of my Home page (below) and do a search > for "Drop City"; of > the hits that you get, a half dozen or so should be > relevant. > > Also, the FAQ link on the bottom of my home page should > take you to the FAQ > for the Geodesic List. > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:40 AM > Subject: Drop City and FAQ > > > > Can anyone please direct me to info on Drop City and/or > a FAQ for this > group? > > > > thanks alot > > Sean __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 21:08:59 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Global Energy Grid Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The USA Energy Information Administration (EIA) indicates that the = Central American countries of Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, = Nicaragua, Costa Rica & Panama will be linked by a 1,140-mile electrical = transmission line by the year 2006--thus completing the link between = North & South America: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/centam.html (Scroll below to "SIEPAC") =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 22:25:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Geodesic Fabric Dome Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hoberman's self-erecting geodesic tent dome: http://www.hoberman.com/fold/Geodesic/geodesic.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:15:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Struts Comments: cc: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the deres.tenseg. is made of plain old 2xWhatevers, and is designed so that they fit "just & so" and remain straight; however, it can be designed to pre- or post-stress the struts (of course, theoretically, at the least .-) I don't know what Steve's "shoebox" is ... oh; that's "Dick's," and it's essentially the same phenomenon as when you make a futbol out of identical pentagonal (and, if needed, hexagonal) gores; they curve on inflation! >>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm >> >>It is very similar in its initial appearance to the >>curved-strut structure at: >> >>http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=7 >> >>Dick >> >>--- Joe S Moore wrote: >> >>>Rigid Tensegrities: >>> >>> >>> >>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tensegrity-Rigid.jpg >> >>> >>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/00-SelectrdIdeas-TOC.htm >> >>> >>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:43:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Rejected posting to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Comments: To: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed huh? >Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears to >have >already been distributed to the GEODESIC list. That is, a message >with >identical text (but possibly with different mail headers) has been WOW -- I saw a tiny newsitem in the LATimes, and >a confuzed one at that, about a supposed dyscovery >of India, showing how to prove the primality of a number. >has anyone seen any of it? > a friend says that it's rather unimportant, >as there's already a test that works for almost all primes >(except, I think, for the "Carmichael numbers" >or pseudoprimes). the connections between geometry and >numbertheory are many and deep, >with my favorite exmple being Gauss's uncovery >of the significance of the Fermat primes; to wit, >how is it that a heptagon is unconstructible (using compasses), >whilea 17-gon is? > more to the point, et le subjet de mon monologue troisieme, >what in Hell does it mean, otherwise? > >see http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/Curriculum/Prochaine.PCX --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 23:00:42 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 804 Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed thus quoth: > >2- 724.20 Tensegrity Icosahedron. Fuller's mention of "it's > >allspace-filling, closest-packing capability...". This is a description >of > >a trunctated octahedron. So it appears to me that Fuller was very much > >aware that what he calls the tensegrity icosahedron was not a regular > >icosahedron. > > >a verb depending on who's using it for what. You "jitterbug" a VE, or >you > >"jitterbug a jitterbug?" in _S_, 724.31 addresses jitterbugging, akin to what you suggest, below. it's possible to jitterbug a VE, that is with internal "vectors" to the center, but only to the octah. "phase" (assuming flexible hubs, and rigid struts). I think that Bucky was referring to a "packing" of *edge-connected* icosahedra, which is just an "XYZ- orhtogonal" array, not to face-kissing "cheeshedra" -- more like very symmetrically Swiss cheeses, that is. I see taht I was confusing Hugh Kenner with Kenneth Pugh ... or Joe "six-pack" Pugh ... and his book, _Tensegrity_. the interesting reference, below, to an expanded octah. or tenseg.icosah. with 24 external *struts* and 6 (XYZ; eh?) internal and 6 external wires, is really neat; who "made" it in that software (EIG?) ?? http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s07/figs/f2430.html http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s07/p6400.html#770.10 the Eloha (?) thus spake: >"When the 24 tendons are in place, it will be found that the parallel >struts are spaced exactly half a strutlength apart, centerline to >centerline. We also discover that when two parallel struts are moved >toward or away from each other, the other two pairs move in exact >concert. The entire structure expands or contracts symmetrically; it >does not bulge here to accommodate a dimple there. The reason the >struts will move at all is that the residual elasticity of the tendons >is greatly multiplied by the geometry of the system." >-- Hugh Kenner, Geodesic Math and how to use it, p.11 > >Kenner goes on to show a detailed explanation of "elasticity >multiplication" which makes this t*ns*gr*ty extremely flexible. If you >DID have 6 more tendons .5 long connecting the parallel struts, it >would not be nearly so flexible -- if you tried to pull a pair of >parallel struts apart, the force you would have to apply would be easy >to calculate, because you would be directly stretching two .5 tendons. >But as he recommends building it, WITHOUT those 6 tendons, parallel >struts can be pulled apart slightly MUCH more easily. They can't be >pulled FAR apart before all the slack is removed from the system, and >it is quite strong. But the first 1% of increase in the distance >between 2 parallel struts does NOT require stretching any tendon by >1%. > >"...we find that each tendon has stretched 0.00166 % while the strut >separation was increasing 1%. So ds%/dt% = 600. If we handled the >Tensegrity with our eyes shut, imagining that we were holding merely >two [parallel] sticks tied together [like they would be if the two .5 >tendons were in place between the ends of the sticks] we should think >the tendon material was 600 times more elastic than it actually is. We >are encountering the capacity of the system to *multiply the >elasticity* of the tendon material." -- Kenner > >The multiplication factor is even larger when the stretch is smaller; >it flattens out like the bottom of a parabola so that even the most >rigid imaginable tendon is too stretchy to keep this structure EXACTLY >at its equilibrium dimension. "The parabola's zero point is that >ideal condition of rest which nothing real ever attains, and about >which a Tensegrity in particular dances an eternal jig of pre-Socratic >derision." -p.19 >2- >http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s07/p1400.html#724.20 >" 724.20 *Tensegrity Icosahedron:* The six-islanded-strut icosahedron >and its allspace-filling, closest-packing capability provide >omni-equi-optimum economy tensegrity Universe structuring." > >I don't know exactly what he's saying, but I don't think he's intending >it to have anything to do with the truncated octahedron. Clearly, he's >using "all-space filling" in a somewhat different way than when dealing >with ordinary space-filling polyhedra. > >3- >http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s07/figs/f2410.html >What I said re the tensegrity octahedron in "1-", above, applies here. >My estimate is that only 2 of the 8 triangles are regular, and the one >facing us is not one of them. >Subject: Re: RegIcosTense > >Mr. Brawley, in an unfortunate tone that I take to be on the verge of >insulting, objects to my description of the eig he submitted as having >24 external struts, 6 external cables, and 6 internal cables. > >I got my information by first looking at the bands that indicate tension >or compression and give a visual cue with regard to quantity. Then I >compared rest lengths (from the tree view) to actual lengths (from the >display window). > >Rest length of the set of 30 "Edges" springs = 10. >Actual length of 24 springs = 9.955894 indicating these springs are >compressed >Actual length of 6 springs = 10.01744 indicating these springs are >tensioned > >Rest length of the set of 6 internal "Stretchers" springs = 16 >Actual length = 16.09826 indicating these springs are tensioned > >I think this is good information. Even if it is wrong, I request that, >if you respond, you do so in a considerate manner. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:57:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Deresonated Tensegrity Model Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dick et al, This is just a model that I made using a box of new pencils & small = rubber bands instead of the tension lines. I didn't measure anything. = I just wove them together in a 3-way basket weave. Ref: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm See : http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/03-TetTensegFlat.htm Also: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriWeave3WayVs2Way.htm And: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriWeave3wayHats.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 12:01:59 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Global Energy Grid Update In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm sure that will be good news to Peter at GENI > From: Joe S Moore > Organization: (Retired) > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 21:08:59 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Global Energy Grid Update > > The USA Energy Information Administration (EIA) indicates that the Central > American countries of Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica > & Panama will be linked by a 1,140-mile electrical transmission line by the > year 2006--thus completing the link between North & South America: > > http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/centam.html > > (Scroll below to "SIEPAC") > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 16:40:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe-Do the pencils touch each other, not that that changes anything. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Dick et al, > > This is just a model that I made using a box of new > pencils & small rubber bands instead of the tension > lines. I didn't measure anything. I just wove them > together in a 3-way basket weave. > > Ref: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > > See : > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/03-TetTensegFlat.htm > > Also: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriWeave3WayVs2Way.htm > > And: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriWeave3wayHats.htm > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 16:42:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe- How did you get curvature in your pencil model? Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Dick et al, > > This is just a model that I made using a box of new > pencils & small rubber bands instead of the tension > lines. I didn't measure anything. I just wove them > together in a 3-way basket weave. > > Ref: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:10:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: pet toys Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have some numbers to report from an experiment of packing marbles into a plastic sphere. I got a sphere at a pet store. Mice get their exercise in them. I stuffed as many marbles into this sphere as I could. I counted the number of marbles exterior to the cluster. Then I counted the total number of mables. I am running it again after I check the size of each marble. In this first trial there is 1/16 inch variation in diameters, which is pretty big. In spite of this variartion in size, the results were encouraging. Here's the results. n= 173 n(total)=345 r=rt[(173-2)/10]=4.135 Then I said, what if there are concentric shells of spheres, in a topological sense. What if I subtract 1 from 4.135 and see how many spheres would be in 3.135 radius shell, hypothetically. I did that for 5 shell, added them together and came up with a number very close to 345. r=4.135, n=173; r=3.135, n=100; r=2.135, n=47; r=1.135, n=15; r=0.135, n=2. Total is 337. I have not measured the actual radius yet. It would be in averaged diameter marble increments, I guess. I will investigate this relationship, n=rt[(n-2/10), for different radius spheres. Maybe bb's next. Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:52:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model Comments: cc: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the pencils (or 2x6s) are not bent; tehy are simply joined by overlapping the crossmembers (for a given size of elements & "freq," there's only one way to do it). you can see this with any stiff elements, although I could find no diagram of deres.tenseg. in _S_, alas. by the way, I had no idea, Joe, that that picture was of a model that you made! > > This is just a model that I made using a box of new > > pencils & small rubber bands instead of the tension > > lines. I didn't measure anything. I just wove them > > together in a 3-way basket weave. > > > > Ref: > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 07:14:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Signs? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 26-AUG-2002 7:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I don't know why this didn't go, yesterday. Dear Editor; What a contrast between two days' reviews of "Crop Circles: Quest fo Truth" and "Signs." The Times' Turan gripe about the let-the-Yahoos-speak-for-themselves (for two whole hours,) documentary is amusing, in the same way that the views from the Religion News Service are. That is, both take the premise that the "signmakers" are ETs with absolute soemnity, reverence and a sprinkling of evangelism from Tom Parks' born-again crowd of Bible-mouthers. However, Parks almost broke the code on the other reviews of "Signs" that I'd read, regarding the "generic" christianess or Episcopalianess of Mel Gibson's pastoral character - but I'd have to pay to see the movie, to learn what is only "presumably Episcopal" about the ex-Reverend Hess. (Well, is it just a funny faux-Catholic costume in a flashback? DC's National Cathedral has a flock of'em for public viewing!) In the Age of Laser-printers, one visualizes a Star Wars beam-weapon approach to attacking crops in nice patterns, and even Scientific American's (British) author-cum-signmaker insists on a low-tech form of it: trampling! Well, such should've been debunked when "Doug & Dave" were claiming credit for vaster patterns than two British farts could hardly concieve from the air, let-alone to be able to survey in the midst of head-high "corn." Please. The whole, silly "movement" started in Druidland, in the south of England. Although the Druids didn't build Stonehenge, there, they were certainly capable of manipulating crops; in defense of a combine-using farmer's lack of vigilance o'er her vast fields, the patterns apparently fall-over without appreciable damage - just as you'd see if she let the crop go to seed. The whole crop may still be harvestable. If you've seen the poster for "Quest," you'd see the 'mystaqueness' of most of the patterns. It's a "nesting" of a series of "Rouleaux trigons," one of which is the plan for the rotor in a Wankel engine. Now, it could show that it's supposed to be rotating, BUT the housing for the Wankel is not another Rouleaux trigon: this pattern doesn't work, as a sign for any thing of any importance (that I know of). --Brian "Quincy" Hutchings P.O.Box 701, Santa Monica 90406-0701 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 07:17:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 26-AUG-2002 7:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is rather difficult to grok. did you count the total number of small spheres taht you bought?... that's useful, as a checksum, but you don't have to tell us. the rest is a big, Huh? I stuffed as many marbles into this sphere as I could. I counted the number of marbles exterior to the cluster. Then I counted the total number of mables. I am running it again after I check the size of each marble. In this first trial there is 1/16 inch variation in diameters, which is pretty big. In spite of this variartion in size, the results were encouraging. Here's the results. n= 173 n(total)=345 r=rt[(173-2)/10]=4.135 Then I said, what if there are concentric shells of spheres, in a topological sense. What if I subtract 1 from 4.135 and see how many spheres would be in 3.135 radius shell, hypothetically. I did that for 5 shell, added them together and came up with a number very close to 345. r=4.135, n=173; r=3.135, n=100; r=2.135, n=47; r=1.135, n=15; r=0.135, n=2. Total is 337. I have not measured the actual radius yet. It would be in averaged diameter marble increments, I guess. I will investigate this relationship, n=rt[(n-2/10), for different radius spheres. Maybe bb's next. where's the hypothesis behind the formulae? --Signs! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:22:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the multi-jitterbug model (sculpture) at the Inst. doesn't have any of the central 'vectors' either; it is composed whooly of (roughly) trigonal elements, with Dreher's hinge at each apex. (note that I was unable to determine just *how* flexible it was, although it did seem fairly-so; that is, that all the "spheres" did not have to transform in lock-step with teh others into "spaces," according to the dictum o'bucky about 4-way hingeware (or what ever; it's been years, since I had a copy of _S_, both vols. .-) I find it strange that JBw would concern himself with teh VE versus CCP, when he hasn't stated what it is that is the symmetry of his "scrunching the 12 to one side of the one" -- which has been known to everyone since Kepler (yay!) and Newton (boo!) looked into it. the VE has all of the symmetry of the octahedron or hexahedron (cube), since thy're duals. >There has been a lot of conjecture over whether a jitterbug array is even >mechanically feasible because of space limitations reached at icosaphase. >Others know a lot more about this than I do. Also the fact that the radials >in the VE are absent is another objection that is overcome by Gerald de >Jong's innovative redesign - the tensegrity jitterbug: > >http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/tjbug.htm > >The concept of an oscillating IVM as a frame of reference for a >computational cosmography has been eloquently expressed in Jim Nystrom's >paper on the subject: > >http://www.sci.tamucc.edu/~nystrom/ccp_rick/ccp_rick.html > >I know that you have modeled the A&B modules in Struck and my focus >recently has been on trying to understand how they can be systematically >organized into a viable tool. Now that you have downloaded Quicktime 6, >check out the CROSSOCTANT-PACKED COUPLER TOOLBOX: > >http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/charhawk/toolbox.html > >I think this has all the different possible combinations of Mites that are >possible in this kind of packing. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:23:03 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: omnidirectional jitterbug modelling Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the multi-jitterbug model (sculpture) at the Inst. doesn't have any of the central 'vectors' either; it is composed whooly of (roughly) trigonal elements, with Dreher's hinge at each apex. (note that I was unable to determine just *how* flexible it was, although it did seem fairly-so; that is, that all the "spheres" did not have to transform in lock-step with teh others into "spaces," according to the dictum o'bucky about 4-way hingeware (or what ever; it's been years, since I had a copy of _S_, both vols. .-) I find it strange that JBw would concern himself with teh VE versus CCP, when he hasn't stated what it is that is the symmetry of his "scrunching the 12 to one side of the one" -- which has been known to everyone since Kepler (yay!) and Newton (boo!) looked into it. the VE has all of the symmetry of the octahedron or hexahedron (cube), since thy're duals. >There has been a lot of conjecture over whether a jitterbug array is even >mechanically feasible because of space limitations reached at icosaphase. >Others know a lot more about this than I do. Also the fact that the radials >in the VE are absent is another objection that is overcome by Gerald de >Jong's innovative redesign - the tensegrity jitterbug: > >http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/tjbug.htm > >The concept of an oscillating IVM as a frame of reference for a >computational cosmography has been eloquently expressed in Jim Nystrom's >paper on the subject: > >http://www.sci.tamucc.edu/~nystrom/ccp_rick/ccp_rick.html > >I know that you have modeled the A&B modules in Struck and my focus >recently has been on trying to understand how they can be systematically >organized into a viable tool. Now that you have downloaded Quicktime 6, >check out the CROSSOCTANT-PACKED COUPLER TOOLBOX: > >http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/charhawk/toolbox.html > >I think this has all the different possible combinations of Mites that are >possible in this kind of packing. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:26:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Comments: To: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this didn't come-across, yesterday; sorry, if 2D patterns in faux-cranky farmers' fields is out of bounds of the list; do you recall, when Science News wrote-up one Gerald Hawkins, because "geometry theorems" were found in some cropcircles? I wrote a letter to say that they are nothing more than simple *problems* from good textbooks, not theorems, and are to be found by examining almost any pattern, viz the Face and Genitalia on Mars. of course, it wasn't published. Dear Editor; What a contrast between two days’ reviews of “Crop Circles: Quest fo Truth” and “Signs.” The Times’ Turan gripe about the let-the-Yahoos-speak-for-themselves (for two whole hours,) documentary is amusing, in the same way that the views from the Religion News Service are. That is, both take the premise that the “signmakers” are ETs with absolute soemnity, reverence and a sprinkling of evangelism from Tom Parks’ born-again crowd of Bible-mouthers. However, Parks almost broke the code on the other reviews of “Signs” that I’d read, regarding the “generic” christianess or Episcopalianess of Mel Gibson’s pastoral character – but I’d have to pay to see the movie, to learn what is only “presumably Episcopal” about the ex-Reverend Hess. (Well, is it just a funny faux-Catholic costume in a flashback?… DC’s National Cathedral has a flock of’em for public viewing!) In the Age of Laser-printers, one visualizes a Star Wars beam-weapon approach to attacking crops in nice patterns, and even Scientific American’s (British) author-cum-signmaker insists on a low-tech form of it: trampling! Well, such should’ve been debunked when “Doug & Dave” were claiming credit for vaster patterns than two British farts could hardly concieve from the air, let-alone to be able to survey in the midst of head-high “corn.” Please. The whole, silly “movement” started in Druidland, in the south of England. Although the Druids didn’t build Stonehenge, there, they were certainly capable of manipulating crops; in defense of a combine-using farmer’s lack of vigilance o’er her vast fields, the patterns apparently fall-over without appreciable damage – just as you’d see if she let the crop go to seed. The whole crop may still be harvestable. If you’ve seen the poster for “Quest,” you’d see the ‘mystaqueness’ of most of the patterns. It’s a “nesting” of a series of “Rouleaux trigons,” one of which is the plan for the rotor in a Wankel engine. Now, it could show that it’s supposed to be rotating, BUT the housing for the Wankel is not another Rouleaux trigon: this pattern doesn’t work, as a sign for any thing of any importance (that I know of). --Brian “Quincy” Hutchings P.O.Box 701, Santa Monica 90406-0701 --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:37:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Flying Car Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bucky's Dymaxion vehicle flies! The Moller Skycar recently passed a = "Protocol" flight as part of the process of getting FAA certified: http://www.moller.com/news/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 03:54:43 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: omnidirectional jitterbug modelling Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yeah, and it's just as esy to say that "the icosahedron never waits, but is always trensforming in either dorection into a cuboctohedronal VE." >"We discover that the icosahedron is the first degree of contraction of >the vector equilibrium. We never catch the vector equilibrium in its >true existence in reality: it is always going one way or another. When >we get to the icosahedron, we get to realities. In the icosahedron, we >get to a very prominent fiveness:around every vertex you can always >count five." > Synergetics > >I haven't dwelled on the VE because it is a non structure- the open >ended half octahedra are certainly not structural. It is a piece of a >matrix that can only exist as part of a greater matrix. Tear it away >from its terrain, and it shrinks into the icosahedron, which can exist >as an independent figure. >I just saw no significance to an icosa arrangement where the outer balls >were only in contact with a center ball, and not with each other-I >couldn't see why you mentioned it. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:16:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, Refer to this 6 frequency icosa-based model by Jim Leftwich: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tenseg6f-Leftwich.gif Where the struts cross lash all three together so they touch. I used rubber bands. Remove the tension lines that go from end to end. BTW, the definition of "deresonated" or "rigid" tensegrity models is that the struts just touch or "kiss". Some full-scale versions have used bolts. Notice that all the struts overlap either clockwise or counterclockwise. Notice that the struts form interwoven great circles (or lesser--i don't remember which) in a three-way weave: geodesic basket weaving! The individual struts could be substituted with strips of bamboo or whatever. Take a look at Asian baskets or toy balls: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriWeave3wayBall.htm I usually start with a pentagon (see yellow struts) & work out from there. The model will naturally start to curve depending on the thickness of the struts & their length. All the struts are the same length. Adjustments are made where the struts overlap. I just let the model find its own level of comfort by feel. The model will let you know what it likes. Have fun! I've built pencil models that were so big I couldn't get them out the door. For further info go to the bottom of my home page & search for "rigid". Most of the 26 hits will be relevant to rigid tensegrities. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 4:42 PM Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model > Joe- How did you get curvature in your pencil model? > > Dick > > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > Dick et al, > > > > This is just a model that I made using a box of new > > pencils & small rubber bands instead of the tension > > lines. I didn't measure anything. I just wove them > > together in a 3-way basket weave. > > > > Ref: > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 05:42:35 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: omnidirectional jitterbug modelling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Easy to say but untrue. I have an icosahedron shed outside that will never be a VE. Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > yeah, and it's just as esy to say that > "the icosahedron never waits, > but is always trensforming in either dorection > into a cuboctohedronal VE." > >> "We discover that the icosahedron is the first degree of contraction of >> the vector equilibrium. We never catch the vector equilibrium in its >> true existence in reality: it is always going one way or another. When >> we get to the icosahedron, we get to realities. In the icosahedron, we >> get to a very prominent fiveness:around every vertex you can always >> count five." >> >> Synergetics >> >> I haven't dwelled on the VE because it is a non structure- the open >> ended half octahedra are certainly not structural. It is a piece of a >> matrix that can only exist as part of a greater matrix. Tear it away >> from its terrain, and it shrinks into the icosahedron, which can exist >> as an independent figure. >> I just saw no significance to an icosa arrangement where the outer balls >> were only in contact with a center ball, and not with each other-I >> couldn't see why you mentioned it. > > > --SIGHnS! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html > > --Oil Platform 2000!... > The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols > of the Elders of Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): > 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) > 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) > 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) > 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) > 21 -- OMAHA (25K) > 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) > 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) > 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) > 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 06:22:17 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is an interesting description of a 12v locked kiss tensegrity of 10 ft. 2x4's 72 ft. in diameter in Synergetics 2. The altitude is so slight that the 1 1/2" dimension of the 2x4s is used. Joe S Moore wrote: > Dick, > > Refer to this 6 frequency icosa-based model by Jim Leftwich: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tenseg6f-Leftwich.gif > > Where the struts cross lash all three together so they touch. I used rubber > bands. Remove the tension lines that go from end to end. BTW, the > definition of "deresonated" or "rigid" tensegrity models is that the struts > just touch or "kiss". Some full-scale versions have used bolts. > > Notice that all the struts overlap either clockwise or counterclockwise. > Notice that the struts form interwoven great circles (or lesser--i don't > remember which) in a three-way weave: geodesic basket weaving! The > individual struts could be substituted with strips of bamboo or whatever. > Take a look at Asian baskets or toy balls: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriWeave3wayBall.htm > > I usually start with a pentagon (see yellow struts) & work out from there. > The model will naturally start to curve depending on the thickness of the > struts & their length. All the struts are the same length. Adjustments are > made where the struts overlap. I just let the model find its own level of > comfort by feel. The model will let you know what it likes. > > Have fun! I've built pencil models that were so big I couldn't get them out > the door. > > For further info go to the bottom of my home page & search for "rigid". > Most of the 26 hits will be relevant to rigid tensegrities. > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Fischbeck" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 4:42 PM > Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model > > > >>Joe- How did you get curvature in your pencil model? >> >>Dick >> >>--- Joe S Moore wrote: >> >>>Dick et al, >>> >>>This is just a model that I made using a box of new >>>pencils & small rubber bands instead of the tension >>>lines. I didn't measure anything. I just wove them >>>together in a 3-way basket weave. >>> >>>Ref: >>>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm >>> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes >>http://finance.yahoo.com >> >> > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 05:07:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: pet toys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I have some numbers to report from an experiment of packing > marbles into a plastic sphere. I got a sphere at a pet > store. Mice get their exercise in them. > > I stuffed as many marbles into this sphere as I could. I > counted the number of marbles exterior to the cluster. Then > I counted the total number of mables. I am running it again > after I check the size of each marble. In this first trial > there is 1/16 inch variation in diameters, which is pretty > big. In spite of this variartion in size, the results were > encouraging. Here's the results. > > n= 173 > > n(total)=345 > > r=rt[(173-2)/10]=4.135 > > Then I said, what if there are concentric shells of > spheres, in a topological sense. What if I subtract 1 from > 4.135 and see how many spheres would be in 3.135 radius > shell, hypothetically. I did that for 5 shell, added them > together and came up with a number very close to 345. > > r=4.135, n=173; > r=3.135, n=100; > r=2.135, n=47; > r=1.135, n=15; > r=0.135, n=2. > > Total is 337. > > I have not measured the actual radius yet. It would be in > averaged diameter marble increments, I guess. > > I will investigate this relationship, n=rt[(n-2/10)], for > different radius spheres. Maybe bb's next. > > Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 05:20:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200208261417.g7QEHj805851@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > this is rather difficult to grok. > did you count the total number of small spheres > taht you bought?... that's useful, > as a checksum, but > you don't have to tell us. Yes, I said the total number of marbles was 345. > the rest is a big, Huh? Ask a question, then I might be able to answer it. > I stuffed as many marbles into this sphere as I could. > I > counted the number of marbles exterior to the cluster. > Then > I counted the total number of mables. I am running it > again > after I check the size of each marble. In this first > trial > there is 1/16 inch variation in diameters, which is > pretty > big. In spite of this variartion in size, the results > were > encouraging. Here's the results. > > n= 173 > > n(total)=345 > > r=rt[(173-2)/10]=4.135 > > Then I said, what if there are concentric shells of > spheres, in a topological sense. What if I subtract 1 > from > 4.135 and see how many spheres would be in 3.135 radius > shell, hypothetically. I did that for 5 shell, added > them > together and came up with a number very close to 345. > > r=4.135, n=173; > r=3.135, n=100; > r=2.135, n=47; > r=1.135, n=15; > r=0.135, n=2. > > Total is 337. > > I have not measured the actual radius yet. It would be > in > averaged diameter marble increments, I guess. > > I will investigate this relationship, n=rt[(n-2/10), > for > different radius spheres. Maybe bb's next. > where's the hypothesis behind the formulae? The formula is merely a rewriting of Bucky's(?) n=10f^2+2, which gives the number of spheres in a cubocta or icosa shell of frequency f. If frequency is the same as radius, we get r=rt[(n-2)/10]. N is the number of spheres or vertexes in the shell. It is easy to count the number of exterior marbles in a spherical cluster. This cluster had 173 spheres in the outer shell and 345 total. Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 05:26:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: omnidirectional jitterbug modelling In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii No, the icosa _does_ wait because it is stable. Dick --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > yeah, and it's just as esy to say that > "the icosahedron never waits, > but is always trensforming in either dorection > into a cuboctohedronal VE." > > >"We discover that the icosahedron is the first degree of > contraction of > >the vector equilibrium. We never catch the vector > equilibrium in its > >true existence in reality: it is always going one way or > another. When > >we get to the icosahedron, we get to realities. In the > icosahedron, we > >get to a very prominent fiveness:around every vertex > you can always > >count five." > > > Synergetics > > > >I haven't dwelled on the VE because it is a non > structure- the open > >ended half octahedra are certainly not structural. It is > a piece of a > >matrix that can only exist as part of a greater matrix. > Tear it away > >from its terrain, and it shrinks into the icosahedron, > which can exist > >as an independent figure. > >I just saw no significance to an icosa arrangement where > the outer balls > >were only in contact with a center ball, and not with > each other-I > >couldn't see why you mentioned it. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 17:54:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed nice dyscription, Joe. have to say, though, that using (hexagonal-section) pencils is not so hot. anyway, the thing is that, if you start with an arbitrary strut, the thing will probably not close to a full spheric, and will start to deviate from teh GCs (that is, in the simplest "0-freq" forms, the icosadodecah. "basketweave" e.g.). the most inmportant thing is as you mentioned, the "turbining" of the vertices. popsicle sticks are great for trying to do it (and that's my old puzzle: How do you put three popsicle sticks on the table, such that only one end of each is touching it?... "teepee" is not stable, here, without lashing. >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tenseg6f-Leftwich.gif > >Where the struts cross lash all three together so they touch. I used >rubber >bands. Remove the tension lines that go from end to end. BTW, the >definition of "deresonated" or "rigid" tensegrity models is that the struts >just touch or "kiss". Some full-scale versions have used bolts. > >Notice that all the struts overlap either clockwise or counterclockwise. >Notice that the struts form interwoven great circles (or lesser--i don't >remember which) in a three-way weave: geodesic basket weaving! The >individual struts could be substituted with strips of bamboo or whatever. >Take a look at Asian baskets or toy balls: >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriWeave3wayBall.htm > >I usually start with a pentagon (see yellow struts) & work out from there. >The model will naturally start to curve depending on the thickness of the >struts & their length. All the struts are the same length. Adjustments >are >made where the struts overlap. I just let the model find its own level of >comfort by feel. The model will let you know what it likes. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 17:56:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: omnidirectional jitterbug modelling Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hey, kneejerk; I was referring to the jitterbug (flexible-jointed) model, which you can make from sticks & surgical tubing. thus quoth: >Easy to say but untrue. I have an icosahedron shed outside that will >never be a VE. > >Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > >>yeah, and it's just as esy to say that >>"the icosahedron never waits, >>but is always trensforming in either dorection >>into a cuboctohedronal VE." on the wayside, must you guys quote *all* of a posting? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 17:58:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you are being quite solopsistic, herein ... or is it peripatetic?... what reason, then that *you* happen to be on both lists? thus quoth: >Just stop copying your Synergeo messages to Geodesic, please, for the >reasons I've suggested (three times). --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:21:44 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: from Spaceship Earth to Planet Brian In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 27/8/02 18:58, Quincy Quincy Quincy at space998@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > you are being quite solopsistic, herein ... > or is it peripatetic?... what reason, then that > *you* happen to be on both lists? > > thus quoth: >> Just stop copying your Synergeo messages to Geodesic, please, for the >> reasons I've suggested (three times). Did you actually read the message I posted, where I tried to explain why it might be inept to always copy messages for one list onto another? One more (last?) time: > If I were to subscribe to two lists, one about Star Trek and one about > snooker, then when I replied to postings about Klingons I wouldn't bother the > snooker list with that reply. And vice versa. > > I know that Geodesic and Synergeo both discuss Fuller, but there are different > threads (topics, discussions) on each list, and someone can subscribe to one > and not the other. They're different lists. > > So: what is the point of copying your responses from one list to the other? > This doesn't happen automatically, or magically: it happens because you > deliberately do it that way. > > I'm asking you to stop cross-posting because Geodesic list subscribers are > getting fragments (yours) of a discussion that is not happening on their list. > And those subscribing to both are getting the same message twice. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:55:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Energy Grid Update Comments: cc: synergeo@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed did you-all read in the paper, a week or two ago, that FERC is promoting a national grid? of course, this is the "national" counterpart to the centerpiece of the Protocol of the Elders of Kyoto (sik) -- see the Oscar-winning "Invisible Mind!" thus quoth: >The USA Energy Information Administration (EIA) indicates that the Central >American countries of Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa >Rica & Panama will be linked by a 1,140-mile electrical transmission line >by the year 2006--thus completing the link between North & South America: > > http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/centam.html > >(Scroll below to "SIEPAC") --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:01:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Deresonated Tensegrity Model Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that's the beast; deresonated tensegrity! thus quoth: There is an interesting description of a 12v locked kiss tensegrity of 10 ft. 2x4's 72 ft. in diameter in Synergetics 2. The altitude is so slight that the 1 1/2" dimension of the 2x4s is used. Joe S Moore wrote: > Dick, > > Refer to this 6 frequency icosa-based model by Jim Leftwich: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tenseg6f-Leftwich.gif --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)z` _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:11:55 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo-subscribe@eGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oh; you meant the marbles that bump the surface of the big sphere, not the ones on the table. the thing is that your formulae have noe justification, that I can see; you just shout, Voila! in particular, how do you get the radius of the big sphere, even if you assume that most of the marbles are CCP?... then, you'd have to define "concentrical spheres of marbles," which was a big problem vis-a-vu Bucky's "X-freq VE" and, say, finding the marbles that "poke-out" in a watermanshape (-asteron, because it deals with vertices, or should they be spherical dents ?-) thus quoth: > I stuffed as many marbles into this sphere as I could. I > counted the number of marbles exterior to the cluster. Then > I counted the total number of mables. I am running it again > after I check the size of each marble. In this first trial > there is 1/16 inch variation in diameters, which is pretty > big. In spite of this variartion in size, the results were > encouraging. Here's the results. > > n= 173 > > n(total)=345 > > r=rt[(173-2)/10]=4.135 > > Then I said, what if there are concentric shells of > spheres, in a topological sense. What if I subtract 1 from > 4.135 and see how many spheres would be in 3.135 radius > shell, hypothetically. I did that for 5 shell, added them > together and came up with a number very close to 345. > > r=4.135, n=173; > r=3.135, n=100; > r=2.135, n=47; > r=1.135, n=15; > r=0.135, n=2. > > Total is 337. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:59:54 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Struts Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed actually, struts *have* to bend, and neither is the shape of a tensional member ever straight!... that is the subject of pre- and-or post-tensioning. thus, deres.tenseg. is a great place to start to analyze this stuff, since it's essentially like Basketweavin'101. thus quoth: > > >However bending a strut is exactly contrary to what I understood to be > > >the "integrity" of tensegrity -- a bent strut is an element that > > >combines tension on one side with compression on the other, and > > >presumably a lot of "wasted" material in the middle of the member > > >which is not in tension OR compression. > > > > > >I forget the URL but Joe Moore has posted a photo of Bucky standing by > > >his (last?) "tensegrity", a wooden model with no cables and > > >interpenetrating struts that also I think combine tension and > > >compression in one element. I am not sure if there is any compressive > > >force between two struts where they cross each other. I have doubts > > >whether the structural principles Bucky used to define "tensegrity" > > >survived as he kept applying that word to more varied structures. >Rigid Tensegrities: > >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/Icos-Dome-Tensegrity-Rigid.jpg > >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/00-SelectrdIdeas-TOC.htm > >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:22:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: omnidirectional jitterbug modelling Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it is no tstable qua either the jitterbug, or slippy shperes; in the VE (with struts to center), it can't even form (without deformation). thus quoth: >No, the icosa _does_ wait because it is stable. > > yeah, and it's just as esy to say that > > "the icosahedron never waits, > > but is always trensforming in either dorection > > into a cuboctohedronal VE." > > > > >"We discover that the icosahedron is the first degree of > > contraction of > > >the vector equilibrium. We never catch the vector --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:28:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 813 Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed if you look at the "sculpture," you'll see that it has no long wires like that; just Dreher's hinges! thus quoth: > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s04/figs/f6503.html > >Ah. Yes, thanks, I saw that earlier, could not make heads nor tails of >what >was going on in it. >(Still can't, but after your *much* clearer one-VE version, it's not as >confusing.) > >One wonders when, in a construct like that extended indefinitely, the >axis-rods would get in the way of the rest of the motion. >Some other method should be found, which does not require such a forest of >rotation-centers, I think. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:54:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: omnidirectional jitterbug modelling Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dude (JBw), you are hogging this forum (at least, you’re not hogging geodesic-l, two .-) There’s nothing wrong with occaissional prolixity, but you really regurgitate the cake with your plethora of neologisms and grand assumptions, that seem to spill-out faster than you can think. (Not that I have no problem with bashing Bucky, but only when he does the same thing, as in his so-called apolitical stuff, unfortunately saturated with the British meign of the NOW -- see http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm, please .-) If you have a criticism of me, than I’m sure that you can address my specific problemma. I’ve done the same for you, by criticizing the cool coinage of “piont,” which unfortunately does not take advantage of its internal reference to curvature (therefore, it seems very probabl that your scheme will run-up against the same “infinities” that all “0D” point-particles have, in the past; it’s really hard to get beyond your head- expanding U-verse, when you don’t bother with such things). The only other thing that I try to model, is brevity of response, particularly quoting. This can be quite a deal, when you only have 2Mb of storage, as in my “free” account at Hotmail (I wouldn’t use the “digest,” if it weren’t for this vast dumpage.) I’d like to see how-many folks are “still” on geodesic-l; any clue as to this forum’s ab/usership? anyway, the debate about compression and tension might be interesting, if ti were less verbose on your part; at thte moment, it is enought to "go" with Bucky's dictum, They are always-and-only inter-operative! (however, since you have "only" these hard-scrabble pionts, presumably suppozed to your take on gedanken experiments that you've hit yourself over the head with, yoe don't seem to have much choice in the matter.) thus quoth: >Years after I 'rediscovered' the 13-sphere 'problem' and used it, along >with >some pretty abstruse metaphysics, to formulate my Tetrahedraverse, I became --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:07:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: VE to ICOSA Slide Transition - No Twist Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed uh-oh. I was actually thinking of some thing else, when I said that the icosah. jitterbug goes either way to a VE. (the heptality of the icosahedron .-) thus quoth: > > Allow me to use the above information to reiterate a correction of one > > of Fuller's dedicated, repeated errors. There may be different ways to > > determine halfway in the standard jitterbug transformation, but I > > currently know of no means that allows the icosahedron phase to be > > viewed as a halfway position. The Jessen icosahedron, on the other hand, > > looks very obviously to occur at a halfway position. So the following > > snippet of Synergetics, posted by Dick not long ago, contains what looks > > to be erroneous information. (Dick was using the quote for other > > (volume) purposes, so I'm certainly not chiding Dick for the post. > > Besides, we explorers are happy, aren't we, when some one can help make > > our maps more accurate?) (Jim, this bit isn't particularly related to > > what you are now doing, but is directly related to that topic we had > > going some time ago about Fuller confusedly implying that the vertices > > of the classical 6-strut tensegrity were in the same positions as those > > of a regular icosahedron -- in both that tensegrity issue and this > > midway of jitterbug issue the Jessen Icosa -- not regular icosa -- is > > the answer.) > >As mentioned, I recall this thread. > > > "963.10 When the vector edges are half-doubled together, as in the >icosahedron phase of the jitterbug -- halfway between the vector >equilibrium 20 and the octahedron compression... -- RBF" --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:02:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Dymaxion bookshelf plans? Comments: To: Alan Laird MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan, See http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Ha-Hd.htm (scroll below to "Hanging"). Fuller's bookshelf patent # US 4,377,114 was granted on Mar 22, 1983. Also, I think it's possible to buy a copy of a patent from the US patent office (http://www.uspto.gov/). Here's a crude pic of it: http://209.196.135.250/hanging_storage.htm (BFI website) After you have built it, could you email me some pics of your project? Or even better yet, put them up on your own web pages. For the basic idea behind the invention see http://www.buckminster.info//Ideas/03-TetAnchorCounter.htm and http://www.buckminster.info//Ideas/03-TetAnchorOceanFloorHome.htm Something hanging from a ceiling is just the reverse of something "hanging" (anchored) from the bottom of a body of water. Hope all this helps, ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Laird" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:36 PM Subject: Dymaxion bookshelf plans? > Hello, I have been interested in Bucky Fuller and his designs and inventions for some time and now have the opportunity to do some woodshop work (just restarted college). I thought it might be fun to try to build a bookshelf as I have many books and no place to put them. I have read that Bucky Fuller designed one but have not been able to find and plans or descriptions or even pictures on the internet. Do you know of any other resource or maybe a website I may have missed? Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. > Mahalo, > > Alan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:38:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: New Domain Name Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Everybody, The Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute now has its own shiny new = domain name:=20 http://buckminster.info Same stuff, just lots more room for new stuff (60+ megs vs 40). =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:18:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the 2d case, 6 equal circles fit around 1, 12 fit around 7, 18 fit around 19, etc. It seems this is true whether the collection of circles is in a hexagon or a circle. That's what I am finding with my marbles on the table. It seems we can say the radius of either shaped collection, the hex or the circle, is n/6, where n is the number of outer circles. It also seems like the area of this collection is equal to n times r. area=nr and area=(n^2)/6 and area=6r^2 Pretty simple. Is it too simple? Dick --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > oh; you meant the marbles that bump the surface > of the big sphere, not the ones on the table. > the thing is that your formulae have noe > justification, > that I can see; you just shout, Voila! > in particular, > how do you get the radius of the big sphere, > even if you assume that most of the marbles are CCP?... > then, > you'd have to define "concentrical spheres of marbles," > which was a big problem vis-a-vu Bucky's "X-freq VE" and, > say, finding the marbles that "poke-out" > in a watermanshape (-asteron, because > it deals with vertices, or should they be spherical dents > ?-) > > thus quoth: > > I stuffed as many marbles into this sphere as I > could. I > > counted the number of marbles exterior to the > cluster. Then > > I counted the total number of mables. I am running it > again > > after I check the size of each marble. In this first > trial > > there is 1/16 inch variation in diameters, which is > pretty > > big. In spite of this variartion in size, the results > were > > encouraging. Here's the results. > > > > n= 173 > > > > n(total)=345 > > > > r=rt[(173-2)/10]=4.135 > > > > Then I said, what if there are concentric shells of > > spheres, in a topological sense. What if I subtract 1 > from > > 4.135 and see how many spheres would be in 3.135 > radius > > shell, hypothetically. I did that for 5 shell, added > them > > together and came up with a number very close to 345. > > > > r=4.135, n=173; > > r=3.135, n=100; > > r=2.135, n=47; > > r=1.135, n=15; > > r=0.135, n=2. > > > > Total is 337. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 00:15:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: (KMM3081442V62580L0KM) Comments: To: hspersonalsupport@homesteadsupport.com Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is not true, Riley. in the upgrade, the access to the ONline SB was hidden, in a rather sneaky way, which caused me to assume that it just wasn't working. no explanation has ever been given for this, other than that (this is second-hand, from the lists) "the REAL upgrade is coming, later" -- that it was al;most strictly (as far as we could see) cosmetic. I spent over 3 weeks being unable to change my pages, with repeated queries to you folks (and on the lists, where I was finally answered). before that, there was about a 2-week problem, where I couldn't change my pages, which I'll recall, later. I'm asking for more of an extension, through November, for "pain, suffering etc." is that such a horrible request? thus quoth: >You did not experience any technical problems due to Homestead. I therefore >cannot provide a credit. > >Section 10B of the Member Agreement to which you agreed to when you >registered with Homestead states: > >"HOMESTEAD AND ITS SUPPLIERS MAKE NO WARRANTY THAT (i) THE SERVICE WILL >MEET MEMBER'S REQUIREMENTS, (ii) THE SERVICE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, TIMELY, >SECURE OR ERROR-FREE, AND (iii) THE QUALITY OF ANY PRODUCTS, SERVICES, >INFORMATION OR OTHER MATERIAL PURCHASED OR OBTAINED BY MEMBER THROUGH THE >SERVICE WILL MEET MEMBER'S EXPECTATIONS." > >You can review the Homestead Member Agreement online at >http://www.homestead.com. Simply click the 'Member Agreement' link at the >bottom of the page. > > > > >Regards, > >Riley >Homestead Support >[Case #1235564] >Original Message Follows: >------------------------- > > >you don't mean as of yesterday; do you? > my primary problem is that this has slowed me down, and >taken a lot of time in trying to rectify it, >with zero results (although about 3 weeks >without *apparent* service, at the least). so, >I've asked for an extra two months as recompense, >before my account is allowed to expire. > if I could have had some feedback as to what >in Hell is going on, reagarding how *others* might see my site >-- that is re the potential for spoofing etc. -- >I'd still be happy. > >thus quoth: > >If you logged into your account, you will notice that changes to the look > >and features of Homestead has been altered. > > > >Regards, > > > >Riley > >Homestead Support > >[Case #1235564] > > >Original Message Follows: > >------------------------- > > > > > >I didn't ask for an implimentation per se, > >but at least some sort of reason > >for the "upgrade," which according to others > >on the boards, is not actually due til later -- > >that the present upgrade was only cosmetic, > >excdept where it clearly impedes me. personally. > > Acosta at SMPL doesn't know what you did, > >so why don't you tell him? > > > > >"I sumbitted your comments to the Product Team. It does not necessarily > > >mean that it will be immediately implemented." > > > >what happened to "Hailey?" > > > > >Riley > > >Homestead Support > > >[Case #1235564] > > > > >SUBJECT: Re: help! > > >MESSAGE from =macosta@pen.ci.santa-monica.ca.us 27-AUG-20 4:18 > > >Brian: > > > > > >I have not been contacted by Homestead support as you asked them to do. > > >Can you give me a bit more detail on the problem you are having with > >them? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 00:29:32 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Euler's bane Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed essentially the whole "field" has been covered by Lobel. link to his page from mine, http://quincy4board.homestead.com/MiltonAcademy.html. also, it's the subject of old Greek proofs, as found in Euclid. thus quoth: >Question: how is it possible, given rigid regular hexagons and pentagons, >to >create a *curve* this way? >Should the end result not be an icosahedron, hexagons plating its faces and >pentagons sitting at its vertices? >Conversely, querying geodesic spheres of large proportions --say, fifty >times as many hexagons as pentagons-- would it not be true that if there >*is* apparent semi-smooth curvature to the things (they're balls, not >icosas), it would be safe to conclude that none, or nearly none, of the >hexagons are regular hexagons? --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 08:50:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: equilibrium of tension and compression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When a 2d or 3d packing of anything is radially contrained or squeezed, radius and density both decrease. An equilibrium point is reached. Is this well known? I wonder if this goes for black holes, too. Is there a number in here? A ratio? If we start with a hexagonal packing of circles, it has some perimeter and some area. When tensionally embraced, the perimeter stays the same and the density decreases. The area increases. When we squeeze an IVM sphere pack, its surfaces area stays the same, I think. Its radius decreases. Its density decreases. Its volume increases. Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 22:45:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Euler's bane Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops; I misspokse about Lobel. actually, all of it was covered under "archimedean tilings," of which the archimedean solids are the non-flat cases, of which "shapes that include regular pentagona" are at (whether it's specifically in Euclid, I don't know .-) the link, http://quincy4board.homestead.com/MiltonAcademy.html, seems to wrok from SMPL (yeeha). thus saith: >essentially the whole "field" has been covered >by Lobel. link to his page from mine, >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/MiltonAcademy.html. > >also, it's the subject of old Greek proofs, >as found in Euclid. so, what's funny about that?... it'll never get to a "verton," as you insist. oh, ho-ho, I just found a reference to a monsieur Petit, if he's the one with the melded cones, in Nexus magazine, a goffy new-age Oz production, in which he promotes a "double universe" theory -- I'd actually read of it in a more mainstream science (or pop-sci) mag. >Funny thing is, the bigger we get, the closer to regular we get. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 22:49:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: "Ousted from School Board Race?" Comments: To: ccneditor@aol.com, mirror200@aol.com Comments: cc: iotw@sdsc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Open Letter to the City Attorney: What is the City Afraid of? RICO cases, against racketeering and "conspiracy," are the easiest to prove; just ask the "Expert Witness" from the DEA (heard on KPFK-FM). On the other hand, serving papers to indict co-conspirators is a hassle, regarding the City's refusal to take *my* papers of nomination for the 3rd time, but on a better, bad technicality [*]. Is it just that City Hall is con-spire-atorially downwind from the 'WAND' Corp., the consulting purveyors of “non-cooperative game-theory,“ as Oscarized in "A Beautiful Mind?" Or "An Invisible, Fuzzy-math Head." The math's shown solely as a lagubrious magic, a "technology sufficiently advanced" to spook: the movie’s dialog purportedly mentions its use as the FCC's “black-box” to auction our airwaves to Clear Channel *et al ad vomitorium* – but not as the centerpiece of the Kyoto Protocol, a trade-is-freedom nostrum, called an "emissions-trading scheme." (Does this remind anyone of the Nobel-prize-winning formula of the LTCM wipe-out, or the Laffer-Mordell Curve of the supply-siders?) That scheme is supported to the hilt by the Bush Administration, as by the triumvirate of boardmembers from WAND on the Cabinet. You mean, they didn't sign the Protocol, just because 178 countries have formed a super- duper OPEC against US? (Chairman O'Neill was quoted after the election: CO2-emmissions are a "global holocaust." But, he wasn't one of the four that were officially on the Bush 2K Cmte.: Rice, Rumsfeld, Scowcroft, Carlucci.) Dip a big, white litmus-paper. Are the "fossilized fuel" cartels against such a way of jacking their prices up, all at once? In this regard, the City was careful not to publicize the State Assembly hearing on Fran Pavley’s bill on these emmissions, as I’ve spoken about these things, many times at Council (I didn’t hear about it & couldn’t testify). [NB: much-else in this letter has already been exposed, only in the S.M.Mirror, locally.] One can look at the pre-election (Fall, 2000) "WAND Weview" on the web, including its quaint (or Orwellian) tech-fix for the California "e-crisis," to see what they wanted to do on the Cabinet. Or had done: the cover-article fails to mention their role as the study-authors, seguing into being the primary consultant for *both* Charter Reform Commissions, where they promoted the British *shire* system of local governance, the "neighborhood councils" of the article. (God save the Queen; she ain't no human bean – according to the Obi wan Kn’OBEs, the big, new religion of British Poll-takers and SIGNS-making Druid-farmers … agri-cultists: oy-HEIL .-) If the City relents – and my 128 initially-OK signatures for School Board are enough – I'll be on the ballot. If not (or if I can’t sue), find my "Curriculum Vitum" on http://quincy4board.homestead.com – as far as it's really "all, there." I have my suspicions; please, send print-outs! WAND is a perfectly recondite part of the “Eastern Liberal Establishment,” with its campuses in Virginia, Pennsylvania and NYC – following its work on “Big MAC” in the ‘70s – and its European ones, beginning on its strange route via McDonnel Aircraft (*before* the merger with Douglas) and the Army’s Project Air Force. Seen in this light, it was the foundational enterprize of the “military-industrial complex,” long-before Eisenhower gave a heads-up. Now, with its big, green emphasis in local politics, perhaps it will be known as the “post-industrial cabinet-warfare command.” Brian "Quincy" Hutchings, P.O.Box 701, Santa Monica, CA 90406-0701 * *SMMirror*, Aug.28, and *S.M.Daily Press*, Aug.21, 2002. --SIGHnS! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html --Oil Platform 2000!... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com