From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 15 10:37:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (defer.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.58]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i5FEb6a6009034 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:37:06 -0400 Message-Id: <200406151437.i5FEb6a6009034@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 24638 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 14:37:06 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by defer.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 14:37:06 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:37:05 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0211" To: Chris Fearnley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Content-Length: 459014 Lines: 11272 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:00:02 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. 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Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 01:18:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed like Applehwite said (a-hem); so, how did you glom onto this quaint "artifact?" NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX thus quoth: >What do you mean, "show it for a 4 vertexion"? > >I've shown this picture before. > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=109 _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:43:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: poliedri e geodetiche Comments: To: Jobi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jobi, See my web site. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jobi" Newsgroups: alt.bucky-fuller Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:45 PM Subject: poliedri e geodetiche > C'è QUALCHE AMICO ITALIANO > INTERESSATO AI POLIEDRI > E ALLE GEODETICHE? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:22:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: eBay item 1576261958 Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _Geodesic Math & How to Use It_ up for bid at eBay!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1576261958 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 20:40:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Geodesic Domes: Architecture of Our Own MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 18 meg color & sound Quicktime movie (15 min?) about R Buckminster = Fuller made by Ellyn Ruschak of Stanford University about Jan, 2002. http://www.stanford.edu/group/shl/Bucky/domes-100kbps.mov =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 20:44:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Dymaxion Passengers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dymaxion Flying Fish Logo: http://sts.stanford.edu/dymaxion/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:32:32 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Intuitive tolerance for all Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There is such a school, and it is called Elementary Euclidean Geometry (Constructive); the best book that I can offer is, _Modern Pure Solid Geometry_ by Altshiller-Court. As for Rybo’s #1 and #2, they are hilarious and Buckafka-esque attempts, But probably will bear fruit, when I try to read them. At least, He also made attempts to correlate with _S_, by George! Thus quoth: n reality you're still a novice. But given there's no formal >school or institution around all this stuff, these kinds of distinction >don't really manifest in the traditional way. But if there *we're* Thus quoth: #1 Explanation off top of my head. Because it becomes gravitational ergo it follows all possible, faster-than-radiation, icosahedral, geodesic path(s){ways} to the next point (intersection crossing/energy center) of interference i.e. Radials are also chords of gravity when polyhedra are seen as overlapping and interfering within a matrix of polyhedral matrices with dynamic interchanges of their wholes. One example of this is radiation to gravity and back again. Look in synergetics to find references to radials, referenced as radiation and chords as gravity if you want a Fuller (Bucky) or possibly less fuller interpretation/explanation etc. Look at picture of IVMatrix to see how radial become chords and vice versa. Ive recently been coming to the conclusions that all bosons having spin 1 are transcieving via FTRadiation speeds of gravitational, icosahedral, geodesic fields. #2 Our approximately, only superficially, straight-line-observations, of a photons trajectory, its departure and arrival times, are limited to and determined by, our limited, real-time, sensoral, brain-to-mind accessing of cosmic laws, --which, have been developed by Eienstein and/or others --and states that, energy as fermions or bosons --i say that gravity is the exception in boson catagory i.e is only quasi-energy-- is limited in its speed ergo we witness/observe indirectly, photons only seemingly traveling at these maximal, measurable speeds of electro-magnetic radiation when in fact they are traveling at variable speeds faster than what we are physically allowed to observe. the dynamic action --within a fermions structure-- at point A becomes attracted to to dynamic action --in another fermion at at point B. Thus quoth: A) 251.21 Here Fuller does not state that all polyhedra are derived form VE. or the three prime poly-structures, but, its not a far leap, for a Fullerian, to understand that no-polyhedra exist in nature unless they are triangularly structured. It is certainly my interpretation extrapolation and, perhaps, whatever word others may want to attach to it. 223. 62 "Therefore all all polyhedra must become omnitriangulated to be considered in the able. Without triangulation they have no validity of consideration" Again, it is the seven axes of the tet and 14 planes that are the basis for all structures, ergo all polyhedra of Universe having any validity of consideration. These are conceptual polyhedra{vertexia] are dynamically distorted i.e. aberrated as energetic phenomena from most simple low energy photon to the most complex biologic. This generalization includes all fermionic and bosonic forces of Universe. 240.66 "All structural phenomena are accounted n terms of the tetrahedron, octahedrons, vector, and icosahedron." B) 1041.12 and 13 "Various high frequencies of modular subdividing of the tetrahedra produce a variety of asymmetrical truncabilities of the tetrahedron.." 1034.02 "This sixness phenomena tantalizingly suggests its being the same transformative sixness as that which is manifest in the comically constant six foldness of vectors of all topological accountings See secs.. 621.10 and 721)" 240.38 "Universe is a nonsimulataneous potential vector equilibrium." 240.39 "All local events of Universe....{snip}...inagurating calculation with a local vector equilibrium." NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month. Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:43:52 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Intuitive tolerance for all Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Intuitive tolerance for all >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:32:32 +0000 > >240.38 "Universe is a nonsimulataneous potential vector equilibrium." > I agree, if the phases of the jitterbug are considered the same vector equilibrium. Or else, what happens when you pressure your wife or whoever badly? >240.39 "All local events of Universe....{snip}...inagurating calculation >with a local vector equilibrium." > It explains to me the stereotypical behaviour of the alcoholic person. He or she that is funny, when drunk ALWAYS is funny; he or she that is agressive, when drunk ALWAYS is agressive. ergo. We should treat the alcoholic person as a vector equilibrium, not as a bad person. Better, it would be ok if the wine companies add some chemical to the bottles in order to prevent the alcoholic from taking the ticket to ride. At least, tell me this is something that is not in the book. happy weekend Gerardo _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:59:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: bitterbug revisited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello, I am retooling my understanding of the cuboctahedron definition: Could it be that "reality" (as a vector equilibrium, of course) if pushed continually? 1st.- transforms itself into a octahedron (nothing menacing) 2nd.- flattens into a plain triangular surface (bluffing harmlessness) 3rd.- folds itself into a tetrahedron, with two posible results: 3.1 it folds over you (kind of trapping you) as a tetrahedron 3.2 it folds itself leaving you outside of the tetrahedron (show) I would like to have an answer before trying my first model. have a nice Sunday Gerardo _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 23:55:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Kirby Q. on Poly Der. Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed You’ve just made a rather shocking implication; although it will have to remain as a conjecture, I see that it may be behind a lot of the foo-fa-roo that you’ve been potting on this planet, JBw. I sure as Hell don't see it! As for your hen-pecking on grammar, maybe you could explain to us, an inkling of what Rybo might think that he's "up" to; eh? Thus quoth: Likewise, the next layer on this (a dodecahedron of balls) can be both hollow and stable (delete the 12-around-none from within it). In this, no ball can slip through to get into the hollow center because all the 'faces' are closed (touching) pents of balls. However, at some level of packing, a plane hexagon of balls is bound to appear (no ball in center, just the hex), and if it does, the hole *is* large enough to allow a ball to "fall through" into the hollow center. Thus, it's conceivable (this is a new thought for me) that there's a limit on how large (in overall diameter) a 'hollow' pack can be, because the moment a 6-around-none plane sub-pack appears, a ball can fall through (get 'pushed' through, more like) its center hole into the interior. Example: in such a pack, compressed, an *hollow* Buckyball would not be possible: it's hexes and pents --many center-ball-less hexes exist in it *through* which balls could pass, to fill up the central void. Thus quoth: The first part is right. ("begins from the premise that....") But the latter part is not. ("...completely different direction...") NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:24:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Government Surplus Radomes For Sale Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 55' & 93' diameters available from High Structure Maintenance, Inc http://www.radomes.com/Radome/About.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:49:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Quincy quantum credit Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I know that you’ve got some problems with English, but I wasn’t *giving* you the credit. Merely, I was telling you where you might achieve some; dig? Anyway, the referenced book is quite elementary, with a few provisos. though recently reprinted by Chelsea Publ., it is out of current print (as far as I know; I missed that last reprinting, after having brought it "up" on Synergetics-l). Thus quoth: Oh thank you Quincy, for the little morsel of credit --if not cake:)--, regarding my having any relatiohsip, or overlap, with Synergetics 1 and 2. >There is such a school, and it is called, >Elementary "Euclidean" Geometry >(Constructive); the best book that I can offer is, >_Modern Pure Solid Geometry_ by Altshiller-Court. > >As for Rybo’s #1 and #2, they are hilarious and Buckafka-esque attempts, >But probably will bear fruit, when I try to read them. At least, >He also made attempts to correlate with _S_, by George! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:50:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 3 orientations of B modules Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Cool. I dyscivered this, myself, I think, if you look back on Synergetics-l (if possible); it is thte same as the usual "orthoscheme," but twice as big linearly, thus *polarized*. (The components are identical R and L "qudrirectangular tetrah.") I can't see where the 40 pieces come in, as I haven't seen apicture! Thus quoth: I HAVE FALLOW D COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RULE OF CUT AS THAT OF FULLER. I HAVE LEFT AND RIGHT DOUBLE CORNERS, WHICH ARE 1/6 OF A CUBE, THE SAME RATIO AS THE OCTANE HAS TO A CUBE. THESE DO LOOK ALIKE "A" AND "B" MODS. BUT ARE THE SIZE OF A MITE. MY BEG. TET. IS DIVIDED IN TO 16 PIECES 4 OCTANES AND 12 SOLID KITES WHERE FULLER S CUTS DIVIDE THE REG. TET. IN TO 24 PIECES. THE COMBINATION YOU SEE ON THE WEB PAGE IS 8 OCTANES FORMING A OCTAHEDRON AND 4 REG.TETS. THAT IS 12 PIECE TOTAL. SO IN MY SET IT CAN BE 12 OR 16 PIECES. SINGLE CUBE IS EITHER 5 OR 6 PIECES. IN OTHER WORDS ALL OF 8 CUBES IN MY SET CONTAIN 4 CUBES OF 6 PIECES AND OTHER 4 CUBES CONTAINING 5 PIECES. I HAVE TOTAL OF 5 DIFFERENT PIECES AND THEREFORE FIVE DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO THE SAME STRUCTURES. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:51:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Kirby Q. on Poly Der. Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As the dual representation – the 2n-deltahedra, as opposed to the usual 2n-gamma-astera (sik) form, wherein the atoms "are" vertices (quite without structure, *pace* the peas porridge), the trigonated form is just fine, as much as 3-way vertices are OK as "points." That is sto say, as was rather-later brought-out by Sir what's-his-name from Oxford (?), apparently without Compleat Comprehension (or Slight Obfuscation), the carbon atoms can be considered to "be" trigona. As always, one of the edges has to be doubled, to connote a double-bond. These duals are idealizations, with "0D vertices" and "1D edges" and "2D facets." Thus quoth: As I recall, carbon has four available bonding possibilities (not to say exactly, "locations," since the bonds can be bent a little). Thus, I wonder what a "small fullerene" looks like. One wonders if there are any with many more pents than hexes. Do you have an URL besides the one given, to any site with a list of all the known fullerenes? This didn't work, not that it matters: http://www-sop.inria.fr/safir/SAM/Izic/ArtGallery/C60.html NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:52:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Kirby Q. on Poly Der. Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [See prior post on trigona-as-carbon "atoms" .-) Thus quoth: Buckminsterfullerene occurs in nature with no human intervention and is not omnitriangulated: the carbon bonds reach across from atom to atom to make for a hexapent design. Fuller wrote quite a bit about the hexapent design -- it's not omnitriangulated. Thus quoth: other thoughts. The fact that buckminsterfullerene persists in time indicates stability, so Fuller would likely find triangulation where I might see only hexagons and pentagons. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month. Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:54:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Kirby Q. on Poly Der. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed people ought to shitcan some of Bucky's statements, other than as highlights of his current research -- like about the cube: it's only if you beleive that Toothpicks are the Prime Directive! as for the fullerenes, I thought it should [see prior post, composed after that]. Thus quoth: The 8 peas triangularly stablize the 12 push/pull toothpick vectors. The toothpicks are not free to hinge at the pea. Therefore, this cube is only a superficial aspect of a more complicated structural system. Triangulation can be squeezed into a corner, so to speak. Same thing with C60. The carbon atoms are tetrahedrons. The bonds are the push pull vectors. The bonds can bend a little, but they are not able to hinge at the carbon atoms. They are fixed directionally. Unless I am mistaken, the carbon atoms are locked in place in relationship to the whole Buckyball. They are not ball joints. They have no independent motion apart from the Buckyball. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:22:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Kirby Q. on Poly Der. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Kirby Q. on Poly Der. >Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:54:11 +0000 >the push pull vectors. The bonds can bend a little, but they are not >able to hinge at the carbon atoms. They are fixed directionally. isn't bonding exclusively gravitational? well, with some "cosmic dust" floating all around. Or, do we need those things to be vaccumm cleaned inside? Is it not enough for now a pantheistic sacred point of view? > Unless I am mistaken, the carbon atoms are locked in place in >relationship to the whole Buckyball. They are not ball joints. They >have no independent motion apart from the Buckyball. > maybe we should thank atoms and molecules to maintain a pattern, only for a change, while we discover a human pattern to better understand the rest (or increase the net´s bandwidth and interlanguageability to the limit?) Maybe it is not a local Socratic event the T. de Chardin idea: "understand the human event and will understand everything" _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:29:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Zubek's doob Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OK, here's the URL: http://www.clowder.net/zubek/zubek.html it's very clear that Zubek has done a nice job, but it was all surpassed by the crysallographers, over a cnetyr ago (see Coxeter, or what ever). his "big cluster cube" is made of eight, identical units, each of which is made of his big (yellow) tetrahedron, and 4 of his octahedron-octants. I haven't loooked to see what his other (two?) modules are, but I'm sure they're the usual "decompositions," or partially assemblies thereof. note that I can still divide a hexahedron ("cube," because of some ancient geeks, as Bucky so-fondly hits'em) into 6 identical (L and R) pieces. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:33:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 3 orientations of B modules Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Zubek's "double-corner" is the aforesaid quadrirectangular terrahedron, or a 48th of a hexahedron (or a sixth of one, as I've subdivided it). thus quoth: >Cool. I dyscivered this, myself, I think, >if you look back on Synergetics-l (if possible); >it is thte same as the usual "orthoscheme," >but twice as big linearly, thus *polarized*. >(The components are identical R and L >"qudrirectangular tetrah.") >I can't see where the 40 pieces come in, >as I haven't seen apicture! JUST GO TO GOOGLE AND TYPE IN ELUSIVE CUBE. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:46:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: a new science Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the Woframites" got a good review in *Science*, the other day, meaning that he exposed them as a bunch of credit-glomming tyros, on one level, and perfectly reasonable savants of computer science, on thet other. in the former vein, they're the same crew as Newton, Galileo, Hawking et al, and have to be lionized on BS-shows like Star Trek, in order to maintaain their cover as "scientists." (OK, so th term was invented to cover the boys of the Lunar Club; not that British reviews don't mention the central role of Franklim; actually, the American review that I read, didn't know how "cnetral" he was, either; see http://www.trapley.net/aobook.htm thus quoth: I have not yet read Wolfram's, A New Science, but the ideas you are alluding to are expressed in Jim Nystrom's 1998 research paper here: http://www.sci.tamucc.edu/~nystrom/ccp_rick/ccp_rick.html NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:01:55 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed good links at http://members.tripod.com/~modularity/fref.htm NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:22:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: geodesic >Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:01:55 +0000 >good links at >http://members.tripod.com/~modularity/fref.htm > > the previous one too (nystrom) _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:42:53 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Bonnifield Subject: Re: Points repelling each other on a sphere Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > From: Quincy Quincy Quincy > Date: Mon, Oct 28, 2002, 3:34 PM > Lee, it's nice to get a direct question, every once & a while, and rare on > this list Are you going to answer it? I asked: >> Also, I have never understood what it is QQQ thinks Dick should prove. QQQ, >> can you state the theorem you think he should prove, or its negation, and >> prove it? I see I was confused by your cross posting and I actually asked that in synergeo, I meant to ask here. > the "EZ" way to dysprove this crap about "vertons," I specifically asked you to state the theorem you think Dick proposes; you didn't do it. Can you be any more articulate than "crap"? What is the geometrical statement you think Dick made? > is to just try it for the biverton, n=2 720/2=360 so the size of the gore to be cut out of the flat sheet is 360 degrees, which is the whole thing. So that's silly. Dick knew that, and explicitly discussed that case and the n=3 tricorner "pillow" LONG ago. You KNOW that all the interesting examples Dick has suggested use much larger n? > or, if you prefer for the sake of a nondegenerate case, the 4-verton. Now you've seen Dick's 4-verton > congratulation! you just found (probably) the only case where this can work, Were you expecting something else for the 4-verton? Your objections have never made any sense to me, as if you were thinking of something else. > (re below, please, do find a really elementary proof.) Not only did I not find a proof, I did not even understand what you wanted to prove. > one (not-so-elementary) way to prove it, is to show that, although a sphere > can be conformally mapped to a cone (or a plane or a cylinder, as with the > vast bulk of all usefull projections), it can NOT be so-mapped to more than > one. that is to say, there will always be (analytical) dyscontinuities > between the conical (planar etc.) elements, which are cognate with the > unfolding of gores from a real sphere. I did not understand that, anyway later you said > I have to take it back about "confomrality," Having seen the 4-verton that looks like a tetrahedron with rounded edges, is it really impossible for you to imagine a 12-verton looking like an icosahedron with rounded edges? Or a 5-verton, or 127-verton, with rounded edges of varying but approximately equal lengths? >> As far as I can tell Dick has no theorem, but he does have a functioning >> (trial-and-error) mechanical technique for overlapping n cones to cover a >> sphere. If you think that is impossible I'd think you could come up with a >> counterexample construction. I guess that would be an n , an integer, a >> number of vertexes which you think Dick can NOT cover a sphere with. Can >> you think of such a number? I thought not. Otherwise, let us see this >> "elementary geometry" you claim disproves something Dick said. And please >> state what it is being disproved. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:34:12 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Points repelling each other on a sphere Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dick ("Dick") has you snowed-in. since you didn't notice, the alleged 4-verton that he posted had no notes, as to how this computer-generated blip was made. my guess is, it's a "Kummer surface," which (I think) is a 4th-degree family of them -- which'd toss teh idea that it was "made of cones," out into the gutter. most of his models were made with paper plates, which usually are not quite "flat," and this intrinsic curvature seems to be artfully blended-in to these ad-hoc "vertons." I'm not saying that he actually made them, since he refuses to post any notes, as to any difficulties, mystaques, or even "shingling." a cone is 2nd-degree or "quadric" surface, and so is a sphere, so that a lot of what can be done, as far as mapping one to the other is subsumed by those quadric-surface equations. two, the plane is a quadric surface, so that the silly example of 4 pyramidal ("general") cones, added to 4 flat plates, making a tetrahedron ("4-verton"), is very trivial -- a joke; he did NOT show that simplest example, and clearly CAN not. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > is to just try it for the biverton, > >n=2 720/2=360 so the size of the gore to be cut out of the flat >sheet is 360 degrees, which is the whole thing. So that's silly. Dick >knew that, and explicitly discussed that case and the n=3 tricorner >"pillow" LONG ago. You KNOW that all the interesting examples Dick has >suggested use much larger n? > > one. that is to say, there will always be (analytical) dyscontinuities > > between the conical (planar etc.) elements, which are cognate with the > > unfolding of gores from a real sphere. >Having seen the 4-verton that looks like a tetrahedron with rounded >edges, is it really impossible for you to imagine a 12-verton looking >like an icosahedron with rounded edges? Or a 5-verton, or 127-verton, >with rounded edges of varying but approximately equal lengths? _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:47:59 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Points repelling each other on a sphere In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Speak up, Dr. Geometry. http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=110 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:08:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: tet Comments: cc: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry. Had to post this. http://www.ne.jp/asahi/arm/j/jp/nobuyuki_yoshigahara/tetrahedron.jpg __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:15:00 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: stressed tet Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey Lyndon You wanted the notes, right? U. of Chicago okay? See picture 2. http://jfi.uchicago.edu/~tten/rainbow/Crumpling/Alex.Science.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:42:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Plans for Uses of R B Fuller Archive Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Stanford University Libraries in collaboration with the Stanford = Humanities Lab plan to create: "....a database of written documents, audio and video, indexed using = standard metadata schemes in dynamic, interactive Web-based formats." "Web-based online exhibits will also be designed to appeal to different = audiences. Readers unfamiliar with Fuller will have the chance to = discover his life and work." "Fuller admirers will learn about the depth of the digital archive, = sample Fuller's speeches from a four-decade period, compare drafts of = his major published works, and read new scholarly analyses of Fuller's = work." "Finally, these exhibits will show historians of science and technology, = American social and cultural history, architecture and design the = richness of the collection, and the potential it offers for opening up = new avenues of understanding of Fuller and his legacy." "The eventual aim of the.....website development will be a major Fuller = exhibition supported by a hybrid print/electronic publication." Ref: http://www.stanford.edu/group/shl/research/bucky.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:40:34 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Points repelling each other on a sphere Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Captain, it looks alike the Fischstichk is cracking-up -- we'd better man the lifeboats at once! well, at least he's not claiming to have made this one. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX thus quoth: >Speak up, Dr. Geometry. > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=110 _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:45:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: stressed tet Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed actaully, in spite of Chicago U., this is a very neat-o study -- and it looks like the tetrahedron that you'd posted, earlier, with the colors removed; eh? however, it has nothing to do with your bogus claim, except insofar as you (if you actually were to make a model) would have to apply "bending and stretching" forces to your silly 4-verton (at minimum !-) look, Fischstick, no-one is coming to your aid, herein, because there's no thing to do. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:45:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed actaully, in spite of Chicago U., this is a very neat-o study -- and it looks like the tetrahedron that you'd posted, earlier, with the colors removed; eh? however, it has nothing to do with your bogus claim, except insofar as you (if you actually were to make a model) would have to apply "bending and stretching" forces to your silly 4-verton (at minimum !-) look, Fischstick, no-one is coming to your aid, herein, because there's no thing to do. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:48:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Account Closed Confirmation Comments: To: billing@homesteadsupport.com Comments: cc: hspersonalsupport@homesteadsupport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Yale, this was re a note that came after yours; can you please tell me what the hard-asses are doing? (I can see that they kept my site open til arounnd Midnight, after the polls closed, though; yeeha.) thus saith: well, I suppoze that you folks think that you're "republicans;" eh? the "support" at HTI seems to amount to "** yours, Honey!" NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead thus quoth: >This message confirms that you have closed your Homestead Account. Please >note that visitors to your Web site address will no longer be able to view >your site and your e-mail accounts, mailing lists and existing e-mails have >been deleted. > >If you had an active domain with your Homestead account, it will be >transferred to Network Solutions. This transfer process can take up to 4 >weeks. Once the transfer is complete, you will be receiving notification >from Network Solutions via email. At that time, your name will appear as >the billing contact for future renewals. > >For questions about your domain name transfer, please contact Network >Solution at 1-800-779-1710. You can submit questions via the following Web >site: >https://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/contactus > >If you have questions regarding the closing of your Homestead account, >please contact customer support. > >E-mail: billing@homesteadsupport.com > >Sincerely, > >Homestead Technologies (tm) >http://professional.homestead.com _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:39:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I don’t see where it is that you ever diverge from "Euclideanische," since that is what most of the basic visualization stuff is based upon, at least as a default. (That is, stuff with "3D" in the title.) This pedantry o'Bucky's cannot be taken seriously, as it is just a matter of emphasis. You can readily see in his diagrams, the use of symbolic irrationals, namely the second-roots of integers; does he say, Oh, **** -- nature doesn't calculate those endless decimals!? I'll save you the effrort; he does no such thing. It's just as easy to take the surface of the sphere to be unit-area, thus making the diameter to be "pith;" do you now wish to ban this relation of the surface to the diameter? This pedagogy is not a bad thing, even if it is over-emphasized in _S_, if it makes you think; books are not always perfectly written, alas, and oftentimes mystiques are made quite purposively – and accidentally so (see "Mistake Mistique" in the Index .-) Is it not just as silly, to insist upon your particular drawing abilities, as the definition of a circle?… To get a bit closer to the matter, you've got to say that any curve between to points is (at minimum) a slalom, which could look ever-so-straight, but is not; that is, isn't it really a catenary, or some-such? I'm not sure where Bucky's Platonic Diatribe falls, in the old religious war between the Drug-addled Intuitionists and the Strict Constructionists, may they RIP! Thus quoth: To be over-precise, I'm of the opinion a sphere has to be called a polyhedron (likewise a circle has to be called a polygon), since imho in nature and in imagination there's no such thing as a perfect sphere (or circle) --even an "ideal" one. One has to use "points" --dimensionless, of course-- to draw things, in the mind, on paper, in the air, wherever, and since the smallest "line" one can make with them is two points (which constitutes a very, very small *straight line-segment*), one thereby cannot draw a "perfect curve" with them. All curves are thus drawn with discrete straight linesegments, hence are polygons. Thus quoth: It's *not* "Euclidean," though it has to be modelled that way. --Harry-the-Potter's Mad McCrusade on Iraqis ?!? http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:43:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Structures and Omnitriangulation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed --- In synergeo@y..., "Brian Hutchings" wrote: > >it's not a metaphor per se; >it's just a way of formatting the output >of a teletype (e.g.), using a well-knwon property >of THE TETRAHEDRON (see _Tetrascroll_ e.g. .-) > But I think that scrolling, in turn, is a metaphor -- otherwise what's so significant. 'Synergetics' has a lot of this 'rolling through time' of polyhedra, kind of like paint rollers against the side of a house. What we experience are their imprints/footprints (the unscrolled view) whereas in pure principle, we're dealing with rotating constellations of interconnected ideas (polyasters, as you say, I think -- with loss of stars meaning "dis-aster"). Kirby --Harry-the-Potter's Mad McCrusade on Iraqis ?!? http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:44:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed have you heard the joke about quitting, while your a head?... by the same token (?), why don't you make that simple model, before you go onto the oh-so-complicated "4-verton?" wait -- don't answer with wanton abandon; sleep on the idea, and then call us in the morning. (NB: there was some thing in the second sites pages, about "singularities," which you'd better attend to; dig?) --- In synergeo@y..., "Dick Fischbeck" wrote: >Here's another curvy spheroid thing constructed from cones: > >http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Sphericon.html > >http://www.ams.org/new-in-math/cover/sphericon1.html --Harry-the-Potter's Mad McCrusade on Iraqis ?!? http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:46:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed so, DON'T COME BACK TIL YOU, YOURSELF & "DICK" HAVE GONE & MADE AT LEAST ONE OF THESE MODELS. like, Dude, dig this crazy quote: Plato's Academy in Athens had a policy: "You are not allowed to enter here, unless you know geometry." In the dialogue, Meno, Plato describes Socrates teaching geometry to a slave. In true Socratic form, he does not instruct him directly. Rather, he elicits knowledge from the slave which he did not know he possessed. The diagrams themselves elicit the buried intuitive knowledge of a world inhabited by the gods and by the divine "Forms." your reference just about destroys your case, on its own, without resorting to any geometry, at all. maybe that's why it's a good idea to read stuff, firstly. so, just do it: make the "bicone," first, to see if it is at all waht you thought it was. then, go on to the oh-so-hard case of the 4-verton, if it's different from that (clearly, 4pi/4 is not the same as (root(1/2))pi, but we'll see what is possible, I guess, if it kills you .-) and, no beating on the helpless cones! --- In synergeo@y..., "Dick Fischbeck" wrote: >Can anyone explain Lyndon's mathematical objection to constructuting a >sphere out of cones? I've tried to understand him for a long time but http://jfi.uchicago.edu/~tten/rainbow/Crumpling/Alex.Science.html --Harry-the-Potter's Mad McCrusade on Iraqis ?!? http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:49:52 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 molecule Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed so, there're 60 "monohexes" in a complete "fly's-eye" spheric, which are cognate with the trigonal atoms of the dual to the usal "soccerballene" model; eh? (I looked at the patent; like you saith'd .-) --- In synergeo@y..., "Brian Hutchings" wrote: > >say, What?... can you quote from that patent e.g.?? > >--- In synergeo@y..., "formactv" wrote: > > The Monohex patent of Buckminster Fuller gives interesting insight > > regarding the hexpent formation. Stability for the hexpent depends >on > > concentration of strength in the triangular hub (carbon atom). The > > Monohex is based on such strong, spaced out triangles. --Harry-the-Potter's Mad McCrusade on Iraqis ?!? http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:51:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the Good Doktor can say what he likes, I'm sure -- and he has the rest o'the night t'DOO it -- but I have to add that bending, technically, is a *form* of deformation ... or perhaps defprmation can be "deconstructed" as a lot o'compound bendings. hey, I even have used the machine-tool that bends sheetmetal, albeit only in a classroom situation. --- In synergeo@y..., "Brian Hutchings" wrote: > to add to the "crumpling, stretching and bending" >of your perfectly recondite site -- you can still try >to read it -- we'd have to add DEFORMATION, since >this is what happens to "elements" that are tackled >avec la methode du papier-mache -- oy-heil! >http://jfi.uchicago.edu/~tten/rainbow/Crumpling/Alex.Science.html --Homestead does it, again -- cancels my site w/o notice! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/MiltonAcademy.html _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:52:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 molecule Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hey, I had to come back after extensive sErfing, as this may be the best place to quote it, in reference to certain folks & their typing prowess, which I generically call, l'Ecole de General Bourbaki. "Mathematics is a part of physics. Physics is an experimental science, a part of natural science. Mathematics is the part of physics where experiments are cheap. "The Jacobi identity (which forces the heights of a triangle to cross at one point) is an experimental fact in the same way as that the Earth is round (that is, homeomorphic to a ball). But it can be discovered with less expense. "In the middle of the twentieth century it was attempted to divide physics and mathematics. The consequences turned out to be catastrophic. Whole generations of mathematicians grew up without knowing half of their science and, of course, in total ignorance of any other sciences. They first began teaching their ugly scholastic pseudo-mathematics to their students, then to schoolchildren (forgetting Hardy's warning that ugly mathematics has no permanent place under the Sun). "Since scholastic mathematics that is cut off from physics is fit neither for teaching nor for application in any other science, the result was the universal hate towards mathematicians - both on the part of the poor schoolchildren (some of whom in the meantime became ministers) and of the users. "The ugly building, built by undereducated mathematicians who were ... " --V.I. Arnol'd http://pauli.uni-muenster.de/~munsteg/arnold.html http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/math/carto.pdf HTTP:// --- In synergeo@y..., "formactv" wrote: >Yes, the 60 monohex is the basis for the 26 ft. Fly's Eye. Those parts >can be adjusted for more complex, larger domes too. Thanks for taking >the time to look at it. I found it fascinating and spent quite a long >time rereading it, several years ago. --Harry-the-Potter's McCrusade on Iraq ?!? http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:22:06 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Comments: To: FYIpopsci@aol.com Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear FYI; [Re the problem of slicing three pies, so that a piece can be given to (at least) 34 kids, *PS*, Nov. '02] Moscovich’s solution does take the cake of the ideal, to have frosting on every "slice." However, the general solution can be had by only ten cuts amongst all of the 3 cakes, giving exactly 34 pieces, it so-happens. --thanks, Brian Hutchings P.O.Box 701, Santa Monica, CA 90406-0701 NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:37:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: JB, URL's for you Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it works, but you have to join using your ID etc. there appears to be no sign of any working hypothesis as to what a boson is -- other than a green circle -- and so on, nor any guding theme to the concentric circles. it seems to be words, strung on a Buckafkan mimicry. one has to ask, Why in Hell do They do This? let's be more charitable, though. novel apporaches can yeild novel insights, when they can be tamed for exposition in the language (say) of synthetic geometry. of course, this emphatically includes Buckafka, himself. if one looks at Dick's dabblings e.g., we can see the midcourse collision of Bucky's abortive neoligism of "-vertexion (tm)" with monsieur Petit's Bad Idea. although the former was the inkling of a somewhat profound- cum-trivial idea (the recognition of the duals to the archimedean shapes, which can *be* labelled by their vertices, quite effectively) ... the latter could also be rescued by thinking about stressed cones -- not perfect ones, that are quadric surfaces. thus quoth:> "The requested file or directory is not found on the server." http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/files/Rybos%20Folder/Cosmic%2520nutshell.jpeg --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:52:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is really the opposite of Waterman, getting bent ouy of shape over an absolute grid versus relative co-ordinates. since Bucky goes to lengths to show that real spherics' surfaces have thickness, and they're spinning & orbiting & so on, there's really no reason to assert the same about the idealizations -- that are freely used in all of _S_. for, how can you say that the facets (or "windows") are any less idealized, than the whole polyhedron or sphere. Cusa proved the incommeasurability of the circle -- that it can't be "squared" or triangled – in th3 14th CCE, that it's of a "different species." Bucky uses the "parable of the nonstraight line," while putting this on a Cartesian back & forth! and so on. now, if Bucky did say that "4Dness" had to do with the 4 altitudes of a tetrahedron -- which generally do not meet at a point, as in "Jacobi's identity" – he never bothered to use them in homogenous co-ordinates, which are just groovy!… and, there are other ways to parameterize stuff with 4 variables. Thus quoth: For Fuller, edges and planes have thickness, points occupy space. There are no dimensionless points. Extension in space is an irreducible property of geometric concepts in synergetics (by definition). Thus quoth: language. His 4D, defined by the four perpediculars to the tetrahedron's faces, is conceptually irreducible. There is no "2D" or "1D" or "0D" except in some informal sense, i.e. one means to refer to relatively flat or pointy entities. --Harry-the-Potter's Mad McCrusade on Iraqis ?!? http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:59:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: PI to millions and billions of digits Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed since those two guys configured how to get teh nth digit of pi -- the binary one, by itself and, by extension, any hexadecimal, octal etc. digit -- we can solve the problem using jillion-year-old Tibetan technology: we just put the nth digit on a prayer wheel, and spin it n times. otherwise, the "prayer" would be too big, for all of the monks of the Holy Tibetan Empire, to budge the wheel -- ... just say, Ohm! thus quoth: We should get free of the notion that in order for something to happen in Nature, something has to be *calculated* before it can happen. --Harry-the-Potter's Mad McCrusade on Iraqis ?!? http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:34:13 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Bicycle-Spoke Tensegrity Octahedron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a link to an essay on another tensegrity I built using bicycle spokes as the tensile element: http://bobwb.tripod.com/synergetics/photos/spoke.html Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:14:02 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: Bicycle-Spoke Tensegrity Octahedron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Despite any problems you had, that is still a classy assembly. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Burkhardt [mailto:bobwb@CHANNEL1.COM] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 3:34 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Bicycle-Spoke Tensegrity Octahedron Here's a link to an essay on another tensegrity I built using bicycle spokes as the tensile element: http://bobwb.tripod.com/synergetics/photos/spoke.html Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:25:00 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: what's an operator Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can anyone simplify this definition and maybe give a realworld example? http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Operator.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:18:45 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey, qqq, has this past year of insults from you all been based on a miniscule amount of deformation? You idiot, why didn't you say so. Glad you have suM rEalworld experience with bending... --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > the Good Doktor can say what he likes, I'm sure > -- and he has the rest o'the night t'DOO it -- but > I have to add that bending, technically, is a *form* > of deformation ... or perhaps defprmation can > be "deconstructed" as a lot o'compound bendings. hey, > I even have used the machine-tool that bends sheetmetal, > albeit only in a classroom situation. > > --- In synergeo@y..., "Brian Hutchings" > wrote: > > to add to the "crumpling, stretching and bending" > >of your perfectly recondite site -- you can still try > >to read it -- we'd have to add DEFORMATION, since > >this is what happens to "elements" that are tackled > >avec la methode du papier-mache -- oy-heil! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:26:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: what's an operator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed but, Why? NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) >Can anyone simplify this definition and maybe give a >realworld example? > >http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Operator.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:36:42 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed my experience with machine-tools appears to be far more than the models you made -- by capturing them on the web. now, why don't you pose such questions to any one else (directly, by name) on this list? the fact is that *any* deformation (... that goes beyond taht of the inherent tensile & compressive stresses that arise in a cone or cylinder, due to the material's thickness & strength ...) will invalidate your whole, kludged-together programme. aside from Petit's wrong application of his expertise in fluiddynamics, you also have not bothered to so-much as do the simplest proof, of Descartes 720-degree polyhedral deficit, that is where you get the formulaic stabbing-at-us (who bother to read your **** .-) even, the proof for smooth-surfaced shapes is easy (it's called the Gauss-Bonnet Theorem). NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >Hey, qqq, has this past year of insults from you all been >based on a miniscule amount of deformation? You idiot, why >didn't you say so. Glad you have suM rEalworld experience >with bending... _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:01:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Comments: cc: prof_earth@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This is a good place to re-iterate: Bucky's "conceptual tetrahedron" of 720-degrees is the very same as the old angular deficit o'descartes, and the Gauss-Bonett Theorem (I'm not sure if it works for nonconvex polyhedra, but they do have to "simple" (homeomorphic to a ball, as in rubbersheet geometry (sic)). it's just another reason, why THE TETRAHEDRON is so cool. As for Lauritzen, I've been trying to explain this for years, now, and his subdividing the soccerballene does not work: too many trigona; just do the math!… one has to take the *dual* of the soccerball with its 60 3-way vertices, which gives us a shape with 60 3-edged facets, the hexaconta-delta-hedron ("delta" is a little trigon- shaped symbol, folks, and has been in ling usage for the "deltahedra" .-) Bill, close: imploding cigar! His verification, if I understand it, was to build a different structure, which IS triangulated, but is otherwise irrelevant to the pentagonated/hexagonated C60. CC: prof_earth@hotmail.com --Harry's Bombing Iraq! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:02:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A lot of this stuff could be subsumed Under “least action.” as with thte supposition about straight lines between points (see "gravity"). The fact that you are programming under exclusively “Euclidean” algorithms is another problem for your presumed non-assumptions. There is certainly no reason to bothewr with the "rubber sheet analogy" of gravity, that people have been beaten over the head with for deacades. Your two questions are addressed to yourself. Any hypothesis that you like can be stated, but one should take pains to differntiate "phase-space" from any thing else that it might be *called* in the literature. Thus quoth: Can we make visual models --approximate or otherwise-- of Riemannian spacetime? Can we do images of Relativistic phenomena? Re: PI to millions and billions of digits On the wayside, this was a perfect evocation of the absurdity of Bucky's "position," not that it was intentional! We should get free of the notion that in order for something to happen in Nature, something has to be *calculated* before it can happen. Calculation, or even a requirement for mathematics, is a product of the way human minds seem to work. There is no "mathematics" in Nature; She just does what She does --sometimes "instantly." --Harry's Bombing Iraq! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:07:11 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: what's an operator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It sounds like a higher level of function. So instead of a regular function which maps from real numbers to real numbers like f(x) = x^2 + 5, there is something that defines a mapping from functions to functions. An example would be taking any polynomial function and adding 1 to it. So the function x^2 + 5 would be mapped to the function x^2 + 6. This is a different definition than what's used in programming where operators are just -, +, *, / etc. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:08:06 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? >Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:02:23 +0000 >Thus quoth: >Can we make visual models --approximate or otherwise-- of Riemannian >spacetime? >Can we do images of Relativistic phenomena? > like in a "critical path" project? With the proper budget.... they do whatever > >Re: PI to millions and billions of digits >On the wayside, this was a perfect evocation >of the absurdity of Bucky's "position," >not that it was intentional! > maybe first there has to exist a better e-mail handler. yahoogle "Miguel de Icaza" (he claims to work 4 hours a day in his already a gigabyte mail file to handle 2500 dayly messages) >We should get free of the notion that in order for something to happen in >Nature, something has to be *calculated* before it can happen. >Calculation, or even a requirement for mathematics, is a product of the way >human minds seem to work. >There is no "mathematics" in Nature; She just does what She does >--sometimes >"instantly." > I agree. But what about the trends? are there at least some clear megatrendes? just in order to know that nature will accomplish them. I vote for the Teilhardian "the more we try to repell each other, the more we are launched one against the other" (flames or no flames). There was another that Mr. Fuller also agreed with and worked hard to see it happen: the growing degrees of freedom of the human beings. (the mind, a silent mind) This growing freedom of actions, T. de Chardin called "centrification" T. de Chardin says that next step (after an acquired degree of freedom) is the union "center to center". As always happen with alive theories (on construction) he did not say how or when, but it sounds nice to me. Like Mr. Fuller that said that he had no political problems and that he was friend of the Rockefellers and the likes, but could not devise a single step to transform killingry into livingry; T. de Chardin didn´t even imagine (I suppose) what was it like to be joined "center to center". But I like those ideas, they shine in the darkness. By the way, T. de Chardin used to be optimistic even in the trenches of the first war. What are the ideas we give Harry instead of bombing the whole world? I said that the first thing is to grant all the bombing guys a life five stars grant forever, but nobody agrees and nobody tells me how much would it cost. But really, all efforts count, I am sure. >--Harry's Bombing Iraq! >http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm > > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:42:48 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Lauritzen is still wrong (and counting). Anyway, I made the below-mentioned hexaconta-gamma-asteron (sik; commonly known as the “truncated icosahedron”), a la the Jitterbug model (with identical dowels and surgical tubing); of course, it does collapse, per the Prime Directive o'Toothpicks … dental higeine, or "the fish rots from the head, 'down.'" Oops: Bill L. is wrong; too-many trigona. hey, anyone could make such a dumb mystaque; eh? does any one "get" it, yet? Thus quoth: > > The "truncated icosahedron" is the untriangulated structure that is shown > > in popular articles as well as scientific journals as being a > > Buckminsterfullerene. It is formed by taking a icosahedron and slicing off > > each vertex one third of the way down the edge. I applied the "necklace > > test" to this structure. It collapsed upon itself. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:44:49 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Let's put this in funny terms. This has to be the biggest "mystaque" that Bucky ever made, not grasping the family of "deltahedra" to be perfect models for the C-2n shapes of the fullerenes. He'd only go with the idea of trigona being "windows," that is, to be defines "dtructurally" by their framing, the struts, though it clearly must be the case, that the hubs must actively hold the struts together (and the strings apart, as it were). Therefore, the dual situation is not an undefined "atom at the center of a trigonal domain," but the trigon, itself, as the "undefined" entity, formerly known exlusively as "0-D vertices." Thus quoth: This brings you to the 2v Triacon. With the 2v Triacon, there are 60 identical isosceles triangles. As Bucky would say, I think it is unfair to those little triangles- to use gussets when big triangle would work. On the other hand, the Monohex patent is clearly to show the best way to make a sphere with holes all over it, allowing the molecule to be 'part of Universe'. This involves smaller, stronger, triangles with distance from each other. The Triacon places the atom at the center of each triangle- the triangular faces are the domain of the atom. Visually, the little atoms would float in the center of the Triacon triangles. This suggest the atom with a triangular field rather than a triangle with 3 radiating bonds. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:54:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 gluons & 6 GRC's Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Re: 8 gluons & 6 GRC's me, three, and I take that as a sly commentary on Rybo's hijinx with Buckafkan wording; eh? anyway, his apprehension of the "4 axes upon which the VE can twist, leftly or rightly," surely shows some sort of cognizance. (as Kirby may recall, this is similar to finding that TWO pentagonal dodecahedra will nest one hexahedron (qube) ... but you have to do the combinatorics, to find all of the GCs (or numbers of nested polyhedra etc.) --- In synergeo@y..., "Tom Ace" wrote: >I'd be interested in any real-world illustration of what >Fuller's talking about in these passages. > >Tom Ace Me too. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:34:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: 8 gluons & 6 GRC's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: 8 gluons & 6 GRC's >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:54:39 +0000 > >me, three, and I take that as a sly commentary >on Rybo's hijinx with Buckafkan wording; eh? > anyway, >his apprehension of the "4 axes upon which >the VE can twist, leftly or rightly," surely >shows some sort of cognizance. (as Kirby may recall, >this is similar to finding that TWO pentagonal dodecahedra >will nest one hexahedron (qube) ... but >you have to do the combinatorics, to find all >of the GCs (or numbers of nested polyhedra etc.) > >--- In synergeo@y..., "Tom Ace" wrote: >>I'd be interested in any real-world illustration of what >>Fuller's talking about in these passages. >> >>Tom Ace > >Me too. > I see it this way: somebody says that VE twists, and somebody says that VE is rigid. We twist (we agree only on the list address) Harry (last paragraph) and his pals are rigid (they are like a collegium: they give us lessons on how to agree) Just think about this: Mr. Fuller and Teilhard de Chardin almost exactly say the same thing about a very comprehensive point of view (one in order to understand megatrends, the other, in order to be most effective) but their heirs (copyright holders) don't even know of or talk to each other. I don't even want to imagine what would happen if they meet each other by accident: they would twist worse than Chubby Checker! On the other hand, what happens when Harry meet his pals? even Abraham Lincoln's statue moves more than they. They shine worse than marble in shiny agreement. >--Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! >http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2040 14:27:03 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The fullerenes were discovered after Bucky died,I believe. The hexpent models are the determination of the scientists who made the discoveries. Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > Let's put this in funny terms. This has > to be the biggest "mystaque" that Bucky ever made, > not grasping the family of "deltahedra" to be perfect models > for the C-2n shapes of the fullerenes. He'd only go > with the idea of trigona being "windows," that is, > to be defines "dtructurally" by their framing, > the struts, though it clearly must be the case, > that the hubs must actively hold the struts together (and > the strings apart, as it were). > Therefore, the dual situation is not an undefined "atom > at the center of a trigonal domain," but > the trigon, itself, as the "undefined" entity, > formerly known exlusively as "0-D vertices." > > Thus quoth: > This brings you to the 2v Triacon. With the 2v Triacon, there are 60 > identical isosceles triangles. > As Bucky would say, I think it is unfair to those little triangles- to > use gussets when big triangle would work. On the other hand, the > Monohex patent is clearly to show the best way to make a sphere with > holes all over it, allowing the molecule to be 'part of Universe'. > This involves smaller, stronger, triangles with distance from each other. > The Triacon places the atom at the center of each triangle- the > triangular faces are the domain of the atom. Visually, the little > atoms would float in the center of the Triacon triangles. This suggest > the atom with a triangular field rather than a triangle with 3 > radiating bonds. > > NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! > --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... > The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols > of the Elders of Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): > 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:36:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: C60 triangulated? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed no argument from here, that the vertex-as-atom model is the one in common usage. I was just noting that Bucky -- had he known of the fullerenes -- might have unocvered the atom-as-facet model, esp. since it brings to light the trigonal (delta-hedral) nature of those facet/atoms. yes, the vertex-model is also trigonal, in the sense taht they're 3-way vertices (-gamma-astera). the two models are completely equivalent, though dual (thus, the covalent bonds in both are represented by the edgees, or toothpicks per Buckafka Fullofit, and Gene what's-his-name, who calls them "-syssies" .-) actaully, although they are perfectly equivalent as ideal models (having 0-D vertices and 2-D facets and 1-D edges -- not "thickness" and so on, or other properties that'd have to be explained in those terms), the deltahedral model has an especial advantage, that is not neccesarily dealt-with, when They use the 3-way vertex model. have a guess? NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >The fullerenes were discovered after Bucky died,I believe. The hexpent >models are >the determination of the scientists who made the discoveries. > >Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > >>Let's put this in funny terms. This has >>to be the biggest "mystaque" that Bucky ever made, >>not grasping the family of "deltahedra" to be perfect models >>for the C-2n shapes of the fullerenes. He'd only go _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:50:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ann, For a list of refs re "Problems" see = http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Princi-Prz.htm (scroll down to = "problems"). I haven't checked them out, but hopefully what you are = looking for is in there somewhere. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D (Note: This is from the Buckminster Fuller group on MSN) http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller From: Ann =20 Question: What is Bucky's comment about "Problems" faced by = humanity? Answer: Bucky's idea is that good problem solvers are rewarded by = more problems! He wrote, "What is common to all humans in history is = problems, problems, and more problems. If you are good at problem = solving, you do not eventually arrive at Utopia; you get ever more = difficult, more comprehensive, more incisively stated problems to = solve." P.S. I'm trying to locate the specific book in which this comment = was written. I'm pretty sure it appeared in 1992 edition of Cosmography: = A Posthumous Scenario for the Future of Humanity (written by R. = Buckminster Fuller's adjuvant: Kiyoshi Kuromiya).=20 Can any of you confirm the source of the quote? Might there be an = earlier source? I'm looking forward to hearing from you!=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:14:36 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your quote is probably from the audio tape "Around the Universe in 90 Minutes". Joe S Moore wrote: > Ann, > > For a list of refs re "Problems" see http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Princi-Prz.htm (scroll down to "problems"). I haven't checked them out, but hopefully what you are looking for is in there somewhere. > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > (Note: This is from the Buckminster Fuller group on MSN) > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller > > From: Ann > Question: What is Bucky's comment about "Problems" faced by humanity? > > Answer: Bucky's idea is that good problem solvers are rewarded by more problems! He wrote, "What is common to all humans in history is problems, problems, and more problems. If you are good at problem solving, you do not eventually arrive at Utopia; you get ever more difficult, more comprehensive, more incisively stated problems to solve." > > P.S. I'm trying to locate the specific book in which this comment was written. I'm pretty sure it appeared in 1992 edition of Cosmography: A Posthumous Scenario for the Future of Humanity (written by R. Buckminster Fuller's adjuvant: Kiyoshi Kuromiya). > > Can any of you confirm the source of the quote? Might there be an earlier source? > > I'm looking forward to hearing from you! > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:41:04 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How so? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > your reference just about destroys your case, > on its own, without resorting to any geometry, > at all. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:22:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 gluons Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hear, there! actually, it is not so extreme to look for such a geometrical relation, in the least (there's quite a literature of it, even if it is not quite a part of the Standar Model). the thing is that dabblers like Rybo, "Dick," JBw etc., tend to posit it without really bothering to investigate. one of Fuller's most "tantalizing" mystaques, is his "Sublimely Rememberable Scheherazade Numbers," although it cold get some folks into the really good stuff, that is numbertheory ... and working on Fermat's Next Problem! thus quoth: into itself thus eliminating the 9th gluon. To give this a geometrical interpretation in terms of twists and turns of the vector equilibrium is reaching at best. Let's assume that we can model the strong force as possible transformations of the VE- so what..how does this lead to numerical predictions of "particle" interactions, and experimentally demonstrated cross-section scattering measurements Fuller often seems to find "tantalizing" numerical relationships between disparate physical phenomina-my favorite is the number 20 in NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:33:27 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://icosavillage.net This guy is really pushing his vision. He even made Time Magazines Coolest Invention selection. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:26:17 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Blair Wolfram Subject: Re: Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cosmography, pg. 260: "The fact that a vast number of humans still assume that it is within the power of their political leadership and the military might they command to resolve our problems is a reasonable manifest of the continued imprisonment of all humanity. "To this author, the dilemma is so great that in 1983 he found himself writing the following paragraphs, which he titled 'Integrity' ": About two pages follow, (including what may be your quote): Unique to human experience is the fact that problem solving leads not only to fresh pastures, but sometimes to ever more intellectually challenging problems. These challenges sometimes prove to be new, more comprehensively advantaging to humanity, mathematically generalizable, cosmic design concepts." ending with: "Dear reader, traditional human power structures and their reign of darkness are about to be rendered obsolete." Blair Joe S Moore wrote: > Ann, > > For a list of refs re "Problems" see http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Princi-Prz.htm (scroll down to "problems"). I haven't checked them out, but hopefully what you are looking for is in there somewhere. > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > (Note: This is from the Buckminster Fuller group on MSN) > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller > > From: Ann > Question: What is Bucky's comment about "Problems" faced by humanity? > > Answer: Bucky's idea is that good problem solvers are rewarded by more problems! He wrote, "What is common to all humans in history is problems, problems, and more problems. If you are good at problem solving, you do not eventually arrive at Utopia; you get ever more difficult, more comprehensive, more incisively stated problems to solve." > > P.S. I'm trying to locate the specific book in which this comment was written. I'm pretty sure it appeared in 1992 edition of Cosmography: A Posthumous Scenario for the Future of Humanity (written by R. Buckminster Fuller's adjuvant: Kiyoshi Kuromiya). > > Can any of you confirm the source of the quote? Might there be an earlier source? > > I'm looking forward to hearing from you! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:28:30 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Blair Wolfram Subject: [Fwd: Problems] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8756945A2AC3FA7A8FCE79BD" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8756945A2AC3FA7A8FCE79BD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------8756945A2AC3FA7A8FCE79BD Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3DD1B849.14124C77@domeincorporated.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:26:17 -0600 From: Blair Wolfram X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {U S WEST.net} (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Subject: Re: Problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cosmography, pg. 260: "The fact that a vast number of humans still assume that it is within the power of their political leadership and the military might they command to resolve our problems is a reasonable manifest of the continued imprisonment of all humanity. "To this author, the dilemma is so great that in 1983 he found himself writing the following paragraphs, which he titled 'Integrity' ": About two pages follow, (including what may be your quote): Unique to human experience is the fact that problem solving leads not only to fresh pastures, but sometimes to ever more intellectually challenging problems. These challenges sometimes prove to be new, more comprehensively advantaging to humanity, mathematically generalizable, cosmic design concepts." ending with: "Dear reader, traditional human power structures and their reign of darkness are about to be rendered obsolete." Blair Joe S Moore wrote: > Ann, > > For a list of refs re "Problems" see http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Princi-Prz.htm (scroll down to "problems"). I haven't checked them out, but hopefully what you are looking for is in there somewhere. > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > (Note: This is from the Buckminster Fuller group on MSN) > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller > > From: Ann > Question: What is Bucky's comment about "Problems" faced by humanity? > > Answer: Bucky's idea is that good problem solvers are rewarded by more problems! He wrote, "What is common to all humans in history is problems, problems, and more problems. If you are good at problem solving, you do not eventually arrive at Utopia; you get ever more difficult, more comprehensive, more incisively stated problems to solve." > > P.S. I'm trying to locate the specific book in which this comment was written. I'm pretty sure it appeared in 1992 edition of Cosmography: A Posthumous Scenario for the Future of Humanity (written by R. Buckminster Fuller's adjuvant: Kiyoshi Kuromiya). > > Can any of you confirm the source of the quote? Might there be an earlier source? > > I'm looking forward to hearing from you! --------------8756945A2AC3FA7A8FCE79BD-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:34:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Problems Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed if that is so, then perhaps we should question Bucky's paradigm of "being an apolitical verb;" eh? NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >"Dear reader, traditional human power structures and their reign of >darkness are about to be rendered obsolete." _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:38:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed since you don't include the reference, I assume that you mean hte one about crumpling and bending a tetrahedron; isn't your claim that the "cones" can be joined, smoothly, without such dytortions? it's simply absurd, that you refuse to try your hand at making the alleged 4-verton; can you do it, and when -- do you need a lifetime grant of $400K/year to get the gumption going? someday, your going to admit that you don't know **** from Shinola (tm), although the former can be used as an emergency substitute! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) thus quoth: >How so? > >--- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > > > your reference just about destroys your case, > > on its own, without resorting to any geometry, > > at all. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:51:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 gluons & 6 GRC's Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed very well-said, KU! as for Ace's comments, you can try to find Snelson's models of atoms; I haven't seen them (except for the ad for the showing that I missed in LA), but they are very-much along the lines of circles, not gust greater ones, on spheres. thus quoth: If you really want your pseudonymously eponymous comic books to gain a following among the gullible, you need to tighten your GUT, not allow it to cellularly subdivide into a mutant mess. Note I'm offering this advice artist-to-artist, not scientist-to-scientist. thus quoth: http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s11/p3100.html#1132.00 In other words, if you want to go from here to there in Universe in the quickest and most economical way, while stopping over here and there for indefinite periods at no-extra-cost hotels, you have got to go through the 12 points of intertangency of the 25 great circles of fundamental symmetry that apply to all the atoms and their association in all seven of the fundamental symmetry subsets. and from 1132.11 Each of the 25 great circles of any one closest-packed sphere can be used by that special local sphere as an "until-ready," local shunt-off, holding circuit track for any traveling energy entity. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:26:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Problems -- Bucky apolitical? Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "Quincy Quincy Quincy" > if that is so, then > perhaps we should question Bucky's paradigm > of "being an apolitical verb;" eh? I have always taken Bucky's meaning to be that the solutions to the worlds problems could not be solved by political means. He proposed that the solution was by design science not politics. Even this proposal has political implications. Almost every major theme in his work has political overtones. I see this as no reason to question Bucky's paradigm, it just gives us a clue as to how it should be interpreted. Peace, Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:13:33 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I gather your objection is that I am not allowed any bending at all, that the edges have to be folded into sharp creases. Okay. So be it. Then let's say the same thing about making cones smoothly transition into each other to form a polyhedron of n vertexes, except let's substitute pentagonal and hexagonal pyramids for the cones. Still, the edges lengths are determined during construction and the areas of the triangular facets can all be different, just like before. Vertexes are approximately equidistant from the center of volume. All the angular deficits of the vertexes can be the same. Still have a problem? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > since you don't include the reference, > I assume that you mean hte one about crumpling and > bending a tetrahedron; > isn't your claim that the "cones" can be joined, > smoothly, without such dytortions? > it's simply absurd, that > you refuse to try your hand > at making the alleged 4-verton; > can you do it, and when -- > do you need a lifetime grant of $400K/year > to get the gumption going? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:39:01 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: origami C60 Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Now this is omnitriangulation! Vertex as tetrahedron model. It's easier to find pictures of these things than make them! http://www.members.aol.com/origami4/photos3.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:43:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Tony Kalenak >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) >Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:33:27 -0600 > >http://icosavillage.net > >This guy is really pushing his vision. >He even made Time Magazines Coolest Invention selection. I insist, while harry the potter breaker has no problem to gather a unique world critical path fire cracker team, we have to browse pages and pages of dome inventors a little too late for the Italian children that died in their own school-trap (not constructed on the principles of design science) in the past earthquake. In Italy, Fuller et all were known since the sixties as the "architects of the yuxtaposed spheres". What about the last Indian earthquake: 100,000 hindus dead. And Nehru and her daughter Indira GAndhi met personally Mr. Fuller and knew about dome sheltering. Dome building is a conquest of personal freedom, war against terror or whatever is a global collective socialized task. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:48:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Problems C´mon Quincy, this is a family list. Once and for all, what was the name of the party Mr. Fuller created? the "zoon politicon" ? >if that is so, then >perhaps we should question Bucky's paradigm >of "being an apolitical verb;" eh? > >NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! >--Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! >http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm > >thus quoth: >>"Dear reader, traditional human power structures and their reign of >>darkness are about to be rendered obsolete." > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:05:08 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -Tony. Parkhill, Smith & Cooper, Inc. 5214 Thomason Dr. Midland, Texas 79703 Phone: 915.520.2110 Fax: 915.697.9758 www.team-psc.com -----Original Message----- From: Gerardo Garcia [mailto:garciacabrero@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:44 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) >From: Tony Kalenak >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) >Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:33:27 -0600 > >http://icosavillage.net > >This guy is really pushing his vision. >He even made Time Magazines Coolest Invention selection. I insist, while harry the potter breaker has no problem to gather a unique world critical path fire cracker team, we have to browse pages and pages of dome inventors a little too late for the Italian children that died in their own school-trap (not constructed on the principles of design science) in the past earthquake. In Italy, Fuller et all were known since the sixties as the "architects of the yuxtaposed spheres". What about the last Indian earthquake: 100,000 hindus dead. And Nehru and her daughter Indira GAndhi met personally Mr. Fuller and knew about dome sheltering. Dome building is a conquest of personal freedom, war against terror or whatever is a global collective socialized task. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:11:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Problems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Right on, Gerardo, give him hell (i think). --- Gerardo Garcia wrote: > >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy > >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster > Fuller's works > > > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: Problems > > C´mon Quincy, this is a family list. Once and for all, > what was the name of > the party Mr. Fuller created? > > the "zoon politicon" ? > > >if that is so, then > >perhaps we should question Bucky's paradigm > >of "being an apolitical verb;" eh? > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:14:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC3931398E@pscserver3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wow. And I agree. There is nothin' really stoppin' us. --- Tony Kalenak wrote: > Dome building is a conquest of personal freedom, war > against terror or > whatever is a global collective socialized task. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:17:08 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You have a point, in that all the brilliant design in the world can not overcome social/political/technological inertial in any country, let alone in the 3rd world. This doesn't make our efforts any less valuable. It instead points to the fact that design solutions Need to incorporate the needs of the indigenous populations and local environmental factors. -----Original Message----- From: Gerardo Garcia [mailto:garciacabrero@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:44 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) >From: Tony Kalenak >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) >Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:33:27 -0600 > >http://icosavillage.net > >This guy is really pushing his vision. >He even made Time Magazines Coolest Invention selection. I insist, while harry the potter breaker has no problem to gather a unique world critical path fire cracker team, we have to browse pages and pages of dome inventors a little too late for the Italian children that died in their own school-trap (not constructed on the principles of design science) in the past earthquake. In Italy, Fuller et all were known since the sixties as the "architects of the yuxtaposed spheres". What about the last Indian earthquake: 100,000 hindus dead. And Nehru and her daughter Indira GAndhi met personally Mr. Fuller and knew about dome sheltering. Dome building is a conquest of personal freedom, war against terror or whatever is a global collective socialized task. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:26:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Dick Fischbeck >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) >Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:14:43 -0800 >From turning the equation upside down? Cause I agree with Quincy in his campaing against the bombing insanity. War should be a personal conquest of any member of any association like the national rifle (if it is the christmas toy kind of gun) Dome building should be a global socialized science and conquest. They can compete like in the linux software developing lists (with flames and everything) they get hurt only in their pride. >Wow. And I agree. There is nothin' really stoppin' us. > >--- Tony Kalenak wrote: > > > Dome building is a conquest of personal freedom, war > > against terror or > > whatever is a global collective socialized task. > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:14:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dave Buck Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) In-Reply-To: <20021113191443.34064.qmail@web40703.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 11/13/02 12:14 PM, Dick Fischbeck at dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com wrote: > Wow. And I agree. There is nothin' really stoppin' us. Truly admire your spunk and find amusing the kibitzing that goes on--do not think we are all wired similarly on some of this stuff. But, feel that most of us relaize that what is stoppin' us is collective ignorance as observed by Bucky. So there is a big job to do focused on awareness/understanding/mindful action/effective communication. Am out here in the San Francisco area where the Bucky Play is going forth at a slower that desired pace. Several things are percolating around the play that may help toward more of the right/empowering information being readiy available and the ability to sustainably use it being supported in a signifcant way--stay tuned. Doug Jacobs, the very talented writer/director of the play, R. Buckminster Fuller: The History (an Mystery) of the Universe, has not made the script (or any other documentation of the contents) available yet, though there have been many requests and much interest. For those of you who have not had the pleasure of seeing the play and would like to know a little about what it contains, for my own use, after seeing the play a few dozen times (help GENI at a concession selling Bucky related boods, tapes, maps, etc. in the lobby for the past two runs), made a list of ideas taht seemed non conventional and deserving of further contemplation. It is a pretty long list--128 separate listings, so there is a lot in the play and it is exceedingly well done from the writing standpoint and the acting standpoint. If any of you would like a copy, simply email me your request and will send it to you by return email--messes up the formatting a little, but is still easy to read. Enjoy, Dave > > --- Tony Kalenak wrote: > >> Dome building is a conquest of personal freedom, war >> against terror or >> whatever is a global collective socialized task. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:42:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Dave Buck >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) >Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:14:37 -0700 I think that you should post the copy to the list. The internet earlier concern on bandwidth no longer operates. Just think about this: very recently Vinton Cerf was awarded the "Príncipe de Asturias" Spanish award together with three other "fathers of the internet". Vinton Cerf, whom I consider is a real hero of the internet nurturing, lately can be related to the names WorldCom and MCI. Don´t know much about WorldCom, but in 1997 MCI used to sell a prepaid long distance card mostly for the mexican calling-back-home laborers (legal or illegal) ***AND*** the MCI cards were the worst robbery in town. Don't worry about bandwidth because not even the internet forefathers turned bandwidth providers can do much in favor of justice or whatever. I think it must be worth to figure in the archives. On the other hand, once I e-mailed foghouse asking whether there would be an interest in translating the play to Spanish and nobody answered What can you tell me about the multimedia displays in the play, do they really rock? > > Wow. And I agree. There is nothin' really stoppin' us. >Truly admire your spunk and find amusing the kibitzing that goes on--do not >think we are all wired similarly on some of this stuff. But, feel that >most >of us relaize that what is stoppin' us is collective ignorance as observed >by Bucky. So there is a big job to do focused on >awareness/understanding/mindful action/effective communication. > >Am out here in the San Francisco area where the Bucky Play is going forth >at >a slower that desired pace. Several things are percolating around the play >that may help toward more of the right/empowering information being readiy >available and the ability to sustainably use it being supported in a >signifcant way--stay tuned. > >Doug Jacobs, the very talented writer/director of the play, R. Buckminster >Fuller: The History (an Mystery) of the Universe, has not made the script >(or any other documentation of the contents) available yet, though there >have been many requests and much interest. For those of you who have not >had the pleasure of seeing the play and would like to know a little about >what it contains, for my own use, after seeing the play a few dozen times >(help GENI at a concession selling Bucky related boods, tapes, maps, etc. >in >the lobby for the past two runs), made a list of ideas taht seemed non >conventional and deserving of further contemplation. It is a pretty long >list--128 separate listings, so there is a lot in the play and it is >exceedingly well done from the writing standpoint and the acting >standpoint. > >If any of you would like a copy, simply email me your request and will send >it to you by return email--messes up the formatting a little, but is still >easy to read. > >Enjoy, >Dave > > > > --- Tony Kalenak wrote: > > > >> Dome building is a conquest of personal freedom, war > >> against terror or > >> whatever is a global collective socialized task. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:43:54 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Problems -- Bucky apolitical? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it appears that you take his statment at face-value, that his "education" was completely "apolitical." I'd be happy if you could somehow prove this oxymoron, which has been with us since agriculture, but I doubt that you can. anyway, it is quite plain that Bucky's latter-day apotheosis involved hanging-around Princeton and reading Sir Arnold (the Imperial Wizard o'British History .-) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >I have always taken Bucky's meaning to be that the solutions to the worlds >problems could not be solved by political means. He proposed that the >solution was by design science not politics. Even this proposal has >political implications. Almost every major theme in his work has political >overtones. I see this as no reason to question Bucky's paradigm, it just >gives us a clue as to how it should be interpreted. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:46:07 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It is not for me to "work the basics" for Herr Fischstichk; I've been belaboring the idea that this attempted use of quadric surfaces (i.e. those that can be parameterized in 2nd-degree equations, as with the sphere, the cone, the cylinder, the plane, and several others) is strictly verboten *per se*, unless you'd like to get into stressing (and ripping & shredding and bending & crumpling). On the other side, "Dick" has refused to do the simplest thing, which itself is shown to be difficult in trying to put just two cones together -- smoothly. Your example of umbrellas is just fine, and you can't them to do this, either. Thus quoth: Geez, Q, I'd think you could mentally model what he's trying to do by imagining overlapping umbrellas, or overlapping medeival shields. Both of those are real --the umbrellas even in a painting by some historical artist whose name I can't remember. >isn't your claim that the "cones" can be joined, >smoothly, without such dytortions? NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:01:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 gluons & 6 GRC's Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There's really not much in _S_ that can be asailed on the ground of constructive geometry, although Bucky's own wherewithal in that area is diaphanously concealed (you just have to read any of the elementary texts of his dedicatee, Coxeter, to dig it – not that I recommend him, myself (too encyclopedic of an approach, in many cases). That is to say, none of his analogies could really be proven to be wrong, except that they be quite incomplete. If you look at Snelson's model (I *did* see this one on his site), you'll see that there's nothing abstruse about associating all of the basic shapes with physics. (See several issues of *21st C. Sci. and Tech.* e.g., f.k.a. *Fusion*. Here, is Snelson: http://www.grunch.net/snelson/snelpix5.html and http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/ .) The stuff about tetrahedra being the best is neither here nor there; there is one shape that does not have the property, but I forget which "way" that goes. That is, I've never seen the ideal of adding another strut to the square faces, til the transformation to icosahedra – although it align with Bucky's Prime Directive of Dental Hygeine: only toothpicks are structural!… you appear to be beating the same, cold-dead horse. Rybo's stuff, below, is clearly deriviative of _S_, but I can't really see that he comprehends that, from what little I can recall of it. It is not just a matter of poor grammar, since the syntax is plain-enough, though it could be an ESL thing (I myself am a strict proponent of EFL classes for folks like "Dick" and myself .-) Thus quoth: http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/academic/N-Q/phys/teaching/phy304/propquark.html >to whit taht these are the *only* possible symmetries. They're dependent on the basic facts of geometry. So? *Dependency* on the basic facts of geometry does not obviate the possibility of a faulty construction made therefrom, nor prevent inconsistent and/or incomplete use of them. > I have to presume that the part about "fully tetragonized" >is a presumption about your so-called system, Not. It's a note that Fuller's system isn't fully tetragonized. It isn't. His octahedra are missing a strut/diagonal, which would be there if the system were *fully* tetragonized. Thus quoth: Here is side view before two of the half-waves are folded perpendicular to each other. Here we can see the total of edges is 24 and total vertexes is 12. (1) (1) 2 2 2 2 0---- (2)----4------(4)----4----(2)----0 2 2 2 2 (1) (1) The centrally located number (4) on the axis of trajectory is situated as a nucleated articulation point in one dimension. I use the term “presumed trajectory” because i believe that the actually paths of a maximally dispersed photon is on icosahedral, geodesic, faster than --conventionally accepted-- speed-of-radiation NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 03:09:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: origami C60 Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed note that the "atoms" are all 3-way vertices; thank you. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm >Now this is omnitriangulation! Vertex as tetrahedron model. >It's easier to find pictures of these things than make >them! > >http://www.members.aol.com/origami4/photos3.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:33:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: bucky Comments: To: ORBANK@gmx.at MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Katharina, As far as I know the article was called "The Mechanical Wing" & I think it may have been by R Buckminster Fuller (or a AF staff member). It appeared in the October 1940 issue of _The Architectural Forum_ (New York), pages ?? & 92. Did you see these refs: http://buckminster.info/Index/Me-Mew.htm (scroll down to "Mechanical") See _The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller_ page 115 (fig 146) for a partial reproduction. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:11 AM Subject: bucky > dear joe! > > looking for information about the "mechanical wing" project I was happy to > find some hints on your site. > I tried to get the article from the architectural forum but the library has > a problem finding it. > My question: is it possible for you to tell me either the author or the > title of the article ? > > thank you very much, > > katharina orban > -- > +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ > NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:46:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Most and Least Livable Countries UN Human Development Index, 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778562.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:50:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: A Profile of Planet Earth--Aug 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004374.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:17:27 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Now, get off it, Quincy. I never ever ever said 2 cones could go together smoothly and close. But 3 and more seem to, with some minor bending. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > It is not for me to "work the basics" > for Herr Fischstichk; I've been belaboring the idea > that this attempted use of quadric surfaces (i.e. those > that can be parameterized in 2nd-degree equations, > as with the sphere, the cone, the cylinder, the plane, > and > several others) is strictly verboten *per se*, unless > you'd like to get into stressing (and ripping & shredding > and bending & crumpling). > On the other side, > "Dick" has refused to do the simplest thing, > which itself is shown to be difficult > in trying to put just two cones together > -- smoothly. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:26:53 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, I'd like a copy, please. dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com > If any of you would like a copy, simply email me your > request and will send > it to you by return email--messes up the formatting a > little, but is still > easy to read. > > Enjoy, > Dave __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:38:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Anyone got any leads to grant money to assemble a web site listing all the major problems needing to be solved, and links to those who are solving them. This could create a scientific platform for systematically tracking those problems that are most critical in our history. It seems to me the web is the perfect tool for creating such a accessible data base. Universe knows Bucky would have had a real love affair with the web, in how it empowers mankind so much, while using so little in the way of resources, thereby expressing a excellent example of epheralization... Leif Thor > From: Dave Buck > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:14:37 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) > > on 11/13/02 12:14 PM, Dick Fischbeck at dick_fischbeck@yahoo.com wrote: > >> Wow. And I agree. There is nothin' really stoppin' us. > Truly admire your spunk and find amusing the kibitzing that goes on--do not > think we are all wired similarly on some of this stuff. But, feel that most > of us relaize that what is stoppin' us is collective ignorance as observed > by Bucky. So there is a big job to do focused on > awareness/understanding/mindful action/effective communication. > > Am out here in the San Francisco area where the Bucky Play is going forth at > a slower that desired pace. Several things are percolating around the play > that may help toward more of the right/empowering information being readiy > available and the ability to sustainably use it being supported in a > signifcant way--stay tuned. > > Doug Jacobs, the very talented writer/director of the play, R. Buckminster > Fuller: The History (an Mystery) of the Universe, has not made the script > (or any other documentation of the contents) available yet, though there > have been many requests and much interest. For those of you who have not > had the pleasure of seeing the play and would like to know a little about > what it contains, for my own use, after seeing the play a few dozen times > (help GENI at a concession selling Bucky related boods, tapes, maps, etc. in > the lobby for the past two runs), made a list of ideas taht seemed non > conventional and deserving of further contemplation. It is a pretty long > list--128 separate listings, so there is a lot in the play and it is > exceedingly well done from the writing standpoint and the acting standpoint. > > If any of you would like a copy, simply email me your request and will send > it to you by return email--messes up the formatting a little, but is still > easy to read. > > Enjoy, > Dave >> >> --- Tony Kalenak wrote: >> >>> Dome building is a conquest of personal freedom, war >>> against terror or >>> whatever is a global collective socialized task. >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:43:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dave Buck Subject: RBF play excerpts In-Reply-To: <20021114172653.56649.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dick,=20 Please let me know your thoughts. Dave R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER: The History [and Mystery] of the Universe Created by D. W. Jacobs The following excerpts constitute one persons feelings of the play=B9s wisdom and inspiration that warrants pondering: 1. Gravity does not have to think before behaving in the most economical manner. 2. We now have the capability to take care of all humanity at a higher standard of living than we have ever known, but only if the sovereig= n fences are completely removed. 3. The physical wealth of universe cannot diminish, the metaphysical can only increase. 4. Learning the truth about all things, then the truth about combinations of things, that=B9s what you want to do. 5. If humanity knows what it needs to take care of all humanity, if it knows its physical resources, and where they are located, humanity needs no money. It needs physical and metaphysical accounting. 6. Don=B9t know what I am, I seem to be a verb. 7. Imagine yourself as these deployed elements that temporarily become your skin, hair, etc. then break off and get blown around as dust. 8. Man is the pattern integrity with which he is born, I call man a pattern integrity. 9. Take a piece of manila rope and splice onto it a piece of nylon rope and onto that a piece of cotton rope. Make the simplest knot I know=ADnot tight=ADmove it along the the rope until it slips of the end of the rope, where? The knot is not the manila, nylon, or cotton. 10. The knot had an integrity all its own. 11. I took off seventy pounds recently, who was that? It wasn=B9t me. 12. In 70 years have taken in over 1,000 tons of air, food, and wate= r but I=B9m not any of that poundage at all. 13. When we die, our pattern integrity moves on=ADit=B9s somewhere else. 14. I began to think that all nature=B9s structuring was based on the triangle. =20 15. I was doing what a child was intended to do=ADusing my imagination= . 16. Where there is no otherness, there is no awareness. 17. We were going from tracked to trackless; from wire to wireless; from visible to invisible. 18. Ephemeralization=ADdoing more with less. =20 19. In the navy impossible things were happening=ADin fact, it seemed like only the impossible happened. 20. Nature is not using pi. 21. I began looking to see how nature contrives her spontaneous associations. 22. Children verifying information from their senses. 23. Child=B9s initial experiments with gravity. 24. Trespasses=ADfeedback of negatives, the realistic admission of which may eliminate the negatives. 25. You do not belong to you=ADyou belong to universe. 26. I am thinking the truth. 27. Every child is born a genius and gets degeniused because parents and the environment are unable to recognize these faculties. 28. There must be a way to help others avoid the pain I was feeling. 29. Feelings=ADthinking, believing, knowing=ADis not feeling. When one thinks, believes, knows, one is a lot of other people, but no one individua= l can be taught to feel. 30. In 1927 I began a 50 year experiment to prove that man is not a failure but like nature, an extraordinary success. 31. What can the individual do to benefit all humanity? The Individual can take initiative without permission. 32. Only humans can discover principles of nature and act in this cosmically adequate manner. 33. I had to make a complete disconnect=ADstart doing my own thinking. 34. I became convinced that we are here for each other. 35. =8A I must learn a great deal and unlearn a great deal more. 36. I had to rethink everything I knew=ADthat was the most difficult discipline I took on. 37. Universe is a scenario built on generalized principles. 38. Man is the experimental initiative of universe. 39. Humans are local universe information gatherers and problem solvers. 40. Humans are guided by a phantom captain which has no weight or sensorial tangibility. 41. No economist has written a chapter in any book about doing more with less=ADeconomists are specialists trained to look for only one thing. 42. Sailors must look for every clue nature gives and anticipate comprehensively. 43. We are traveling on a spaceship=ADa magnificently designed spherical spaceship. 44. We are all passengers on spaceship earth. 45. Spaceship earth did not come with an operating manual. We were not even told that it was a spaceship, we had to find it out for ourselves and we are still learning. 46. Why are our problems so resistant to solutions? Why does it tak= e so long for us to make use of our discoveries? Because our perceptions of the world are inaccurate and our brains are saddled with the weight of misconceptions. 47. Desalinization=ADthe politicians can=B9t help, they cannot be long-range thinkers for projects that are costly and will take at least 10 years to complete=ADleave it to the next guy. What will it cost US if we wait? 48. We must push for a design science revolution. 49. I knew that if I could translate my ideas into actions and artifacts perhaps I could get people to listen to me. 50. I am not a reformer, I=B9m a new former. 51. One must decide if one is going to make money or make sense as the two are mutually exclusive. 52. If you bought a new house recently, you bought a house that is technically and scientifically 75 years behind the times. Do you think tha= t the builders of your house used all known resources and state-of-the-art technology to build the best house possible or were they trying to make money? 53. =8A man will not have to prove his right to live. 54. Man is designed like nature to be an extraordinary success. 55. We must saturate ourselves with information. 56. Nature operates on generalized principles that hold true in ever= y case=AD never fail. 57. Brain and mind are quite different. The brain records experiences while the mind is engaged to discover generalized principles (ie: leverage, tension and compression, concave and convex, proton and neutron). 58. Man is a supergalaxy of galaxies of slip knots. 59. If we could only find the coordinate system employed by nature herself then maybe we could bring together the chasm between the humanists and scientists and find the structure common to both physical and metaphysical universe. =20 60. Time is measured in cycles. 61. All phenomena in universe can be measured by angle and frequency change. 62. A square has no structural integrity=ADthe triangle is the only stable structure. 63. I could see that if I was going to make something work=ADto really make it work=ADI would have to use all triangles. 64. Structure is a combination of energy events. 65. The basic structures in universe are the tetrahedron, the octahedron, and the icosahedron. 66. Synergy is the behavior of the whole unpredicted by the behavior of the parts. INTERMISSION 67. Two triangles taken as right-helix and left-helix fit together t= o form a tetrahedron with four triangular sides, thus, two triangles add up t= o four triangles. This is not a trick=ADthis is the way atoms behave. True synergy. 68. Vector equilibrium=ADthe whole phenomonology of universe. 69. I began applying the principles of universe to the problem of shelter and designed the 4D tower house. 70. I was putting myself and my comfort ahead of my 4D tower house and I concluded, =B3 You are not allowed to do that!=B2 71. Einstein=AD=B3Fear and longing are the fundamental motivations of man.=B2 72. Fusion verified Einstein=B9s E =3D MC2=ADchange is normal. 73. I don=B9t know why I am asked to speak to people as ignorant as you, you teach your children information from eras when man thought the world was flat=ADour problems spring from this era and thinking that we got along, had a lot of fun, so let=B9s just leave it that way. 74. No scientist, no geologist, no physicist has ever found anything that could be called a solid. 75. Universe is all energy and energy events. 76. There are no solids; no straight lines; the wind does not blow, it sucks; there is no up or down in universe; there is no sunrise/sunset, the earth is revolving to obscure the sun. 77. Though sovereign fences may be coming down, we still have 200 admirals aboard spaceship earth with the 5 admirals whose staterooms are next to the oil, claim they own the oil, and the 5 admirals whose stateroom= s are next to the food, claim they own all the food, etc. and we have balance of trade with most having a trade deficit and no one is paying any attentio= n to operating the ship. 78. The great pirates were the first comprehensively informed humans= . 79. Men of the sea are inherently outlaws, the only laws that govern them are the tempestuous laws of nature. 80. There came a time when the out-pirates challenged the in-pirates with a whole new geometry of thinking: from below with submarines, and abov= e from airplanes, and in the invisible realms of electronics and the great pirates became extinct, but all accounting practices in both capitalism and communism still hold to the principles of the great pirates. 81. The ideologies of Malthus/Darwin/Marx and all class warfare are mutually extinct, why? Because Malthus did not know about refrigeration. What else did he leave out? All modern technology. 82. The navy plays a war game; the real game is the world game where we do more with less=ADa design revolution not a political revolution where w= e get on by killing each other and see who survives. 83. We must remove all sovereign fences. 84. In 1969 mankind passed a threshold of doing so much more with so much less to be able to place a man on the moon and bring him safely back t= o earth. 85. The world can work for everyone if we reorient production from killingry to livingry. 86. You must do your own thinking, that=B9s what the individual is about=ADare you going to go along with the truth or be swayed by the crowd. 87. We are entering a new relationship with universe=ADwhen we thought there was not enough to go around, selfishness made sense=ADnow selfishness has no integrity whatsoever. 88. When most of us were illiterate, we said, leave it to the power structure, they know best. 89. We must reform the environment not the man. 90. Only the individual can set aside greed and operate in a cosmically adequate manner. 91. WALL STREET LAWYERS=ADcontinue to manifest in our lives the entropic values of the great pirates. 92. I call the CIA =B3Capitalisms=B9 Invisible Army.=B2 93. Queen Elizabeth granted backers of enterprises limited liability so they could limit their losses. 94. Britain lost the revolutionary war but the East India Company moved right into the new US economy. 95. The East India Company became the first world around enterprise=ADthe =B3empire upon which the sun never sets.=B2 96. My commitment is to cultivate the necessary tools and make their use so easy, pleasant, and efficient that the undesirable ways are simply abandoned. 97. G.R.U.N.C.H. GRUNCH did not invent universe, it didn=B9t invent anything=ADit is devoid of know why and know where and is as blind as its lawyers are mute. 98. GRUNCH could end starvation with only 3% of its gross annual earnings. 99. Power structures abhor idle people as potential trouble makers. Nature does not abhor seemingly idle trees, grass, snails, clouds, coral reefs =8A . 100. The power structure essentially forces us to adopt an artificia= l array of beliefs in order to please some boss. 101. Our subconscious prompts us to ask, =B3What was it I was thinking about when I was told to earn a living doing something someone else thought was important.=B2 102. What do I see that needs to be done that someone else is not doing and what do I have to learn to be more effective at doing it? 103. We are here for problem solving=ADwe are local information gatherers and local problem solvers. 104. What do we mean by universe? The aggregate of all apprehended experience. 105. Everything going on in this room is metaphysical. 106. Understanding is purely metaphysical. 107. Unity is plural and at minimum two. 108. Montreal =B967 dome and Taj Mahal=ADexpressions of the architect=B9s love for his wife=ADAnne new it was so. 109. Dare to speak the truth, and do so right now! 110. All humans have a private hot line to God. 111. Bright people are streamlined into being specialists. 112. No one is born a specialist=ADwe are born with comprehensive abilities. 113. School tends to halt our comprehensive tendencies by orienting us to teachings unrelated to our own goals, interests, and integrities. =20 114. Based on the current cost of household electricity, it would cost nature over $1 million to produce one gallon of petroleum=ADif humans stayed home from their no wealth producing jobs it would save humanity and universe trillions of dollars a day. 115. No one picture will tell you that a caterpillar will turn into = a butterfly and no one picture will tell you that that butterfly will fly. 116. Throughout history humans have essentially thought of instant universe, not realizing that the light from each star takes a different length of time to get here and that some of the stars we see aren=B9t even there any more. 117. Children need to be allowed to do their own thinking. We will make it on this planet because of youth, and truth, and love. 118. Mind is everything, muscle is nothing. 119. If we come out with mind in control it is going to be utopia, i= f muscle in control it will be oblivion. 120. Whatever we are does not really die. 121. A sailing ship opens the sea, but unlike a bulldozer, it doesn=B9= t hurt the sea. It does not take any energy wealth out of universe. 122. Moving a tiny trim tab on the rudder of a ship or airplane creates low pressures that enable it to take a entirely new direction. Jus= t call me trimtab. 123. People ask me if I am an optimist=ADI am a very hard realist. 124. You=B9re going to have to really know the truth. 125. You can deceive your brain-self but you cannot deceive your mind-self. 126. The mind deals only with the discovery of truth. 127. Humanity has the option to make it=ADit is touch-and-go since we also could destroy ourselves. 128. Don=B9t let up=ADkeep with your integrity and we will make it! printed on 100% recycled paper 11/14/02 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:15:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Problems -- Bucky apolitical? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Problems -- Bucky apolitical? >Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:43:54 +0000 >it appears that you take his statment at face-value, >that his "education" was completely "apolitical." > I'd be happy if you could somehow prove this oxymoron, >which has been with us since agriculture, but >I doubt that you can. anyway, >it is quite plain that Bucky's latter-day apotheosis >involved hanging-around Princeton and reading Sir Arnold >(the Imperial Wizard o'British History .-) > according to Toynbee, there were 20+ "original civilizations" (those that can´t be tracked to their origins, but, CIVILIZATIONS, that is: civilization=religion + science(technology) + arts +...) This, Sir Arnold did not live to tell: for the 64 millions prize, what was the only one of those original civilizations (presumed disappeared) that spared their kings and priests? counting.... 1) nobody? ok. one hint: they say they invented the zero before Europe knew anything about such a noneness 2) nobody? ok. another hint: an American citizen, a humble student of the weavings of Central America´s, said it: that civilization had not disappeared, they were there, they had just spared their belligerent priests and kings. 3) nobody? Quincy? no use to ask Sir Arnold, it is better to consult Sir Tiger of the Woods. 4) nobody? ok. another hint: they claim to be specialized in population consultation (including elders, children, etc.) to decide on things concerning social life. Social: it still figures in the Altavista´s Babel Fish translation tool. 5) nobody? last hint. an elephant usurped their ethnic name in a TV series. 6) nobody? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:22:34 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed but that's incorrect. my guess is that the "biverton" is the only case that works -- although it is an absurdity, it does "work" with your formulaic attack *per se*. if you've actually tried to make a 4-verton -- as you don't seem to have built any thing, at all -- then you must have hit these little snags; eh? NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >Now, get off it, Quincy. I never ever ever said 2 cones >could go together smoothly and close. But 3 and more seem >to, with some minor bending. > > It is not for me to "work the basics" > > for Herr Fischstichk; I've been belaboring the idea > > that this attempted use of quadric surfaces (i.e. those > > that can be parameterized in 2nd-degree equations, > > as with the sphere, the cone, the cylinder, the plane, > > and > > several others) is strictly verboten *per se*, unless > > you'd like to get into stressing (and ripping & shredding > > and bending & crumpling). _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:50:58 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: FA Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Exactly. Though there are a lot of exotic materials associated with the web (in computers, etc), it really can do more with less. The "clearinghouse" you allude to seems to be happening in isolated web venues. A start might be to identify and simply link some of them on one site. Foerd Ames Ocean Wave Energy Company 20 Burnside Street Bristol, RI 02809 USA email: foerd@owec.com web site: www.owec.com voice and fax: 401-253-4488 -----Original Message----- From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Leifur Thor Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 12:38 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) Anyone got any leads to grant money to assemble a web site listing all the major problems needing to be solved, and links to those who are solving them. This could create a scientific platform for systematically tracking those problems that are most critical in our history. It seems to me the web is the perfect tool for creating such a accessible data base. Universe knows Bucky would have had a real love affair with the web, in how it empowers mankind so much, while using so little in the way of resources, thereby expressing a excellent example of epheralization... Leif Thor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:19:31 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Unbelievable. Every time that someone (or just me) asks about some dumb **** that's overlooked in your scheme, you circle around like a fly to freshc excrement – "OK, OK; how about this !?!" The idea here is: think before you type; as an added precaution, SLEEP ON IT, and perhaps it'll clear-up by the time the hang-over is gone! What you now state is difficult to apprehend and, ina any case, the whole premise of distributing the angular deficit -- always equal to exactly 720 degrees, at least in the case of plane-faceted convex shapes, and probably for cones, assembled convexly (by Gauss-Bonnet) – evenly by "n" has to be shown, somehow, other than by your gaudy statements. I'm quite sure that it cannot be done, except for some spherically-symmetrical "n." "Let's substitute pentagonal and hexagonal pyramids for the cones," in deed. What's left of the original conjecture, even assuming that *that* will work? In reply to John, he hasn’t done any of this stuff. All that it is is a couple of jammed-together ideas: the 720-degree angular deficit of any (convex?) shape, and monsieur Petit's bogus take from fluiddynamics; that's all that I've seen!... He hasn't denied that his models were just clips from the net, unattributed (at least, he belatedly referred fo Petit .-) Thus qutoh: I gather your objection is that I am not allowed any bending at all, that the edges have to be folded into sharp creases. Okay. So be it. Then let's say the same thing about making cones smoothly transition into each other to form a polyhedron of n vertexes, except let's substitute pentagonal and hexagonal pyramids for the cones. Still, the edges lengths are determined during construction and the areas of the triangular facets can all be different, just like before. Vertexes are approximately equidistant from the center of volume. All the angular deficits of the vertexes can be the same. Thus quoth: I don't think Dick's trying to blend surfaces to surfaces perfectly. Do you? The umbrella/shields example is only overlapping sheltering subunits; they're not going to smoothly blend edge to edge, curve to curve. But then, they don't need to: properly arrayed, rain would flow off the whole umbrella assembly. Geodesic domes suffer from a faintly similar problem: how to shingle them for maximum rain-shed, minimum cracks-between. I'll agree with you on one thing, though: I'd like to see (if he didn't post one) a paper-plate model using a few tens of paper plates. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:24:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 gluons Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed how could anyone say that Bucky "saw no relationship" between ("euclidean") geometry and energy?... well, he used to call it "energetic-synergetic geometry," and this is apparent from most of _S_ (and de plates -- de plates !-) Rybo, your "face" is showing. anyway, there is certainly no "refutation" of euclidean geometry; how preposterous, man. he sure in Hell is not the first to make such realizations; equally preposterous. thus quoth: >Kirby and others thing there is no relationship of true expression between energy and Euclidean geometry. Don't feel alone If you really read Fuller, he doesn't find that relationship either- much of his work is modification or refutation of "Euclidean" geometry as an adequate description of natural structure (e.g. no straight lines, spheres, etc.) It's closer to a Non-Euclidean, Riemannian approach- in fact I think Fuller is the first to really identify the surface on which the game is played as being a primary "axiomatic" factor in the logical development of geometry (parallel line postulate-great circle alternative). NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:26:35 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 glouns & 6 GCs Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed um John Baez's? thus quoth: I keep looking for the key web pages that'll add clarity, and am open to suggestions. I seem to find a gulf between those written for like 12 year olds, and those written for professionals in the field. Both are useful to me, but I see a need for more in between. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:33:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 glouns & 6 GCs Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "That is an issue to be determined in the laboratory." hear, there!... unfortunately, the computerized simulacrum doesn't stand-in for some things; eh? as for the "Copenhagen schoolers," they're a bunch of professional Mystaques, reifying their dainty probabilities; oy heil! thus quoth: Presence in spacetime and experimental manipulability are what Bohr meant by a classical description of instruments; to describe an experiment clearly enough for someone else to replicate it depends on putting it into classical terms. The Copenhagen Interpretation is the way to avoid the inconsistencies that classical description imply; CI recognizes that the classical details are not quite right. --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:06:32 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Bonnifield Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit QQQ: > "Let's substitute pentagonal and hexagonal pyramids > for the cones," in deed. You do know that pentagonal and hexagonal and other pyramids ARE cones, don't you? Or at least half-cones, which has always clearly been what Dick means, a whole cone being two half-cones joined peak to peak on the same axis. The lines on the surface between the peak of the cone and the nearest edge of the shingle must be perfectly straight for it to be a perfect cone, but I don't see a problem with accomplishing that. Anyway, given this is a mechanical construction technique (not a theoretical one) I've always been willing to allow Dick a little slack for using real materials that may not maintain geometric perfection. Still it sounds like you expect other deformations than the one he sees, which is just the forming of the half-cone from a flat sheet. Are you bothered by a tiny pucker concentrated at the point? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:35:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you kids really know how to beat an undead cat! I did mention this trivial example, but it simply reduces to faceted polyhedra; yes, the "general cone" is any planar curve that is used as a generator of lines to one vertex. there is still no where in here, so we can just let "Dick" drop it, without any apology, if that's too much for him to bear. what has to be proved is Petit's bogus application of fluiddynamics "mappings" to cones-jammed-together, and the ideal of evenly sytributing the 720-degree deficit amongst any n "vertons;" this is a pipe-dream ... well, maybe the mixed-drink metaphor is better for Dick! as for it being a "technique," forget it. even if papier-mache could constitute a proof-of-principle, it seems taht he didn't actually make any of those things that he'd posted -- he never gave any data about any problems in making them, or any notes, whatsoever -- and he refuzes to give an example of the super-difficult 4-verton. sheesh, what a riot. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >You do know that pentagonal and hexagonal and other pyramids ARE >cones, don't you? Or at least half-cones, which has always clearly >been what Dick means, a whole cone being two half-cones joined peak to >peak on the same axis. The lines on the surface between the peak of >the cone and the nearest edge of the shingle must be perfectly >straight for it to be a perfect cone, but I don't see a problem with >accomplishing that. Anyway, given this is a mechanical construction >technique (not a theoretical one) I've always been willing to allow _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:50:55 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 gluons & 6 GCs Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Lee, the curvature of Universe was experimentally verified by Gauss in hte 19th CCE; of course, it was *locally* curved, which is all that the usual "rubbersheet metaphor" implies. (this is to say that Aristarchus was also correct !-) GPS may have already caused a ton of navigators, who don't know **** from Shinola (tm) (of course, a good sauce can make any thing palatable, and *that* is a true boating-skill .-) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm now that is concise: http://www.7stones.com/ >I wish I could describe a realistic experiment on a scale large enough >to make it obvious that space is NOT Euclidean; eg, something like a >sun-grazing laser beam bouncing around 3 solar orbiting platforms. I'm >extrapolating from the angular displacement Eddington allegedly >observed in the famous "confirmation" of general relativity. I expect >that experiment DOES work when performed more carefully and a 3-bounce >extrapolation from it shows there are MORE than 180 degrees in very >large physical triangles. There is no way to discover that without >experiment. I'll bet a careful analysis of a Global Positioning System >calculation would prove E-3D does not work except as an approximation, >in imagination. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:55:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Earn money with the Homestead Affiliate Program! Comments: cc: support@homesteadsupport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1b23_638c_578" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1b23_638c_578 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed great idea. please ask Bob Griffin to re-open my account, before I throw a hissy-fit. you guys owe me through '02, being mice (ME, being nice; I couldn't really expect that from HS, under the New Mgmt.) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm >Subject: Earn money with the Homestead Affiliate Program! >Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:11:11 -0800 (PST) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------=_NextPart_000_1b23_638c_578 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ------=_NextPart_000_1b23_638c_578-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:10:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: Fw: Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Nevin" To: "Joe S Moore" Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 12:00 AM Subject: RE: Fw: Problems > THANK you! I found the relevant 'real Bucky words' on p. 260 of > _Cosmography_ as recommended by Blair, one of your Geodesic subscribers. I > really appreciate how you reached out to the wider community to help me > with this! > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Joe S Moore > > To: > > Date: 11/13/2002 10:07:48 PM > > Subject: Fw: Problems > > > > Ann, > > > > One member of the Geodesic list suggests the following for you: > > > > "Your quote is probably from the audio tape "Around the Universe in 90 > > Minutes". Steve Miller > > > > Another suggests page 260 of _Cosmography_ (see below): > > > > ============================== > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > > ============================= > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Blair Wolfram" > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:26 PM > > Subject: Re: Problems > > > > > > > Cosmography, pg. 260: > > > "The fact that a vast number of humans still assume that it is within > the > > power of their political leadership and the military might they command to > > resolve our problems is a reasonable manifest of the continued > imprisonment > > of all humanity. > > > "To this author, the dilemma is so great that in 1983 he found himself > > writing the following paragraphs, which he titled 'Integrity' ": > > > > > > About two pages follow, (including what may be your quote): > > > Unique to human experience is the fact that problem solving leads not > only > > to fresh pastures, but sometimes to ever more intellectually challenging > > problems. These challenges sometimes prove to be new, more comprehensively > > advantaging to humanity, mathematically generalizable, cosmic design > > concepts." > > > ending with: > > > "Dear reader, traditional human power structures and their reign of > > darkness are about to be rendered obsolete." > > > > > > Blair > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:22:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: Monterey Dome (VR Tour) Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perry Friedman" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:43 PM Subject: Monterey Dome (VR Tour) > My dome home is currently for sale. Even if you are not interested in > buying it, some of you might at least be interested in checking > out the VR tour. > > Check out > http://www.visualtour.com/inventory.asp?b=2575&s=1d > > Look for the home on 10600 Saddle Road > > Perry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:42:41 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit that's the idea for a beginning... > From: FA > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:50:58 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) > > Exactly. Though there are a lot of exotic materials associated with the web > (in computers, etc), it really can do more with less. The "clearinghouse" > you allude to seems to be happening in isolated web venues. A start might > be to identify and simply link some of them on one site. > > Foerd Ames > > Ocean Wave Energy Company > 20 Burnside Street > Bristol, RI 02809 USA > > email: foerd@owec.com > web site: www.owec.com > voice and fax: 401-253-4488 > > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Leifur Thor > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 12:38 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) > > Anyone got any leads to grant money to assemble a web site listing all the > major problems needing to be solved, and links to those who are solving > them. > > This could create a scientific platform for systematically tracking those > problems that are most critical in our history. It seems to me the web is > the perfect tool for creating such a accessible data base. Universe knows > Bucky would have had a real love affair with the web, in how it empowers > mankind so much, while using so little in the way of resources, thereby > expressing a excellent example of epheralization... > > > Leif Thor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:52:08 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Bonnifield Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Exactly. Though there are a lot of exotic materials associated with the web > (in computers, etc), it really can do more with less. The "clearinghouse" > you allude to seems to be happening in isolated web venues. A start might > be to identify and simply link some of them on one site. Here's one. I think the links worked when I was told about it May 2002. http://www.thinkcycle.org/home There's more description and discussion on Slashdot: http://science.slashdot.org/science/02/05/16/1647211.shtml?tid=134 "ThinkCycle is an MIT Media Lab project to apply SETI@Home principles to design problems for underserved communities. Only, intead of donating spare cpu cycles, you donate spare 'think cycles.' Their aim is to build a community of designers, inventors and innovators that want to collaborate on developing novel solutions to some what intractable problems like clean water access , cholera treatment and appropriate shelters. Their aim is to encourage an "open source" ethos for tough design and technology challenges." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:55:22 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: geodesic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is no need for the pucker if a small hole is drilled at the intended point. Lee Bonnifield wrote: > QQQ: > >>"Let's substitute pentagonal and hexagonal pyramids >>for the cones," in deed. >> > > You do know that pentagonal and hexagonal and other pyramids ARE > cones, don't you? Or at least half-cones, which has always clearly > been what Dick means, a whole cone being two half-cones joined peak to > peak on the same axis. The lines on the surface between the peak of > the cone and the nearest edge of the shingle must be perfectly > straight for it to be a perfect cone, but I don't see a problem with > accomplishing that. Anyway, given this is a mechanical construction > technique (not a theoretical one) I've always been willing to allow > Dick a little slack for using real materials that may not maintain > geometric perfection. Still it sounds like you expect other > deformations than the one he sees, which is just the forming of the > half-cone from a flat sheet. Are you bothered by a tiny pucker > concentrated at the point? > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:45:21 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > you kids really know how to beat an undead cat! > I did mention this trivial example, but > it simply reduces to faceted polyhedra; > yes, the "general cone" is any planar curve > that is used as a generator of lines > to one vertex. there is still no where in here, so > we can just let "Dick" drop it, without any apology, > if that's too much for him to bear. > what has to be proved is Petit's bogus application > of fluiddynamics "mappings" to cones-jammed-together, > and the ideal of evenly sytributing the 720-degree > deficit > amongst any n "vertons;" this is a pipe-dream How so, Mr. politico? You've seen plenty of models, or do you still think "someone" is conspiring against you? ... well, > maybe the mixed-drink metaphor is better for Dick! > as for it being a "technique," forget it. even if > papier-mache could constitute a proof-of-principle, > it seems taht he didn't actually make any of those things > that he'd posted -- he never gave any data > about any problems in making them, or any notes, > whatsoever -- and he refuzes to give an example > of the super-difficult 4-verton. sheesh, > what a riot. SHeesh, what a phoney you are not to make one simple model for your self and then claim others don't make them. And what "notes" do you want? There is noting much to say about making the n vertex polyhedron beyond what you see with your own eyes. Give me your address and I'll send you one or 2. How many vertexes do you desire? Please keep it under 100, as I have other fish to fry, or in your case, other pigs to stick. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:15:37 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: vertexions Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You see the polyhedron that condenses from this picture, right Brian Hutchings? http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/figs/plate10.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:17:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I agree with Steve -- he has *some* more experience than I do -- but I wasn't "bothered by a tiny pucker concentrated at the point;" any one else out there going to pieces over that? NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >There is no need for the pucker if a small hole is drilled at the >intended point. > >>"Let's substitute pentagonal and hexagonal pyramids > >>for the cones," in deed. > > accomplishing that. Anyway, given this is a mechanical construction > > technique (not a theoretical one) I've always been willing to allow _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:23:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Herr Doktor-Professor Fischstichk, I am never going to construct a "4-verton" for you; you'll just have to beat on the poor, little cones, yourself. other than that, go take a long swim in a short desert ocean (or, in other word, "WATER!" --H.Keller) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX thus quoth: > > I did mention this trivial example, but > > it simply reduces to faceted polyhedra; > > yes, the "general cone" is any planar curve > > that is used as a generator of lines > > and the ideal of evenly sytributing the 720-degree > > deficit > > amongst any n "vertons;" this is a pipe-dream > >How so, Mr. politico? You've seen plenty of models, or do >you still think "someone" is conspiring against you? > > of the super-difficult 4-verton. sheesh, >SHeesh, what a phoney you are not to make one simple model _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:29:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: From the latest Time Magazine (Nov. 18, 2002) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this was good, although I couldn't see any follow-up dyscussion of the posted topic, Challenge: Informal Scientific Education for Children We need to consider how to provide informal scientific education for the children in the age group of 5-17, particularly in improvished areas. The challenge is to support scientific education through locally available materials and using the local spare talent. What educational tools and techniques would be appropriate in these settings? What are examples of existing initiatives that tackle informal scientific education, and how well do they work? Posted by Panenghat on August 23, 2002 09:54 PM NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) >http://www.thinkcycle.org/home > >There's more description and discussion on Slashdot: > >http://science.slashdot.org/science/02/05/16/1647211.shtml?tid=134 _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:47:16 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 8 gluons & 6 GCs Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [NB: nice work on the humbleness front, mister ASTP-guy; now, if anyone could make any sense out of it all !-] that went-over like a plutonium balloon. the analogy that those folks used is rather amuzing, when you consider that the "rubbersheet" mandates a local "up," that happens to be "north" in the sytem o'Sol. one just has to realize that Gauss et al made, in addition to government-sponsored geodesy of France, a lot of thought-experiments to determine the curvature of Universe, at least locally (they didn't say, to my knowledge). it didn't take long to realize taht it was something of a chimera, if your straight-edges and tight strings are also in the curved space. we just have to keep-on trying!... oh, and see if you can find the interesting mystaque on these lines (sik) in the just-out *Discover* -- the guy's no birdbrain, but he doesn't know nuttin about cartography! thus saith: Lee, the curvature of Universe was experimentally verified by Gauss in hte 19th CCE; of course, it was *locally* curved, which is all that the usual "rubbersheet metaphor" implies. (this is to say that Aristarchus was also correct !-) GPS may have already caused a ton of navigators, who don't know **** from Shinola (tm) (of course, a good sauce can make any thing palatable, and *that* is a true boating-skill .-) Lee, the curvature of Universe was experimentally verified by Gauss in hte 19th CCE; of course, it was *locally* curved, which is all that the usual "rubbersheet metaphor" implies. (this is to say that Aristarchus was also correct !-) GPS may have already caused a ton of navigators, who don't know **** from Shinola (tm) (of course, a good sauce can make any thing palatable, and *that* is a true boating-skill .-) --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:47:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that went-over like a plutonium balloon. the analogy that those folks used is rather amuzing, when you consider that the "rubbersheet" mandates a local "up," that happens to be "north" in the sytem o'Sol. one just has to realize that Gauss et al made, in addition to government-sponsored geodesy of France, a lot of thought-experiments to determine the curvature of Universe, at least locally (they didn't say, to my knowledge). it didn't take long to realize taht it was something of a chimera, if your straight-edges and tight strings are also in the curved space. we just have to keep-on trying!... oh, and see if you can find the interesting mystaque on these lines (sik) in the just-out *Discover* -- the guy's no birdbrain, but he doesn't know nuttin about cartography! thus saith: Lee, the curvature of Universe was experimentally verified by Gauss in hte 19th CCE; of course, it was *locally* curved, which is all that the usual "rubbersheet metaphor" implies. (this is to say that Aristarchus was also correct !-) GPS may have already caused a ton of navigators, who don't know **** from Shinola (tm) (of course, a good sauce can make any thing palatable, and *that* is a true boating-skill .-) Lee, the curvature of Universe was experimentally verified by Gauss in hte 19th CCE; of course, it was *locally* curved, which is all that the usual "rubbersheet metaphor" implies. (this is to say that Aristarchus was also correct !-) GPS may have already caused a ton of navigators, who don't know **** from Shinola (tm) (of course, a good sauce can make any thing palatable, and *that* is a true boating-skill .-) --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:16:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: vertexions Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yes, I see that there's "multifreq." subdivision of one the basic shapes that is "normalized" so that it approximates a sphere; so, What? these things can also be analyzed in terms of the trihedrals (from the center, dysregarding the spherical trigon on the surface; see _Modern Pure Solid Geometry_ (yay !-) you seem to have lost all ability to make a simple thing, like a concially-fromed 4-vertexion (sic); please, don't get too suicidal over this chimera! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX thus quoth: >You see the polyhedron that condenses from this picture, >right Brian Hutchings? > >http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/figs/plate10.html _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:43:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >SHeesh, what a phoney you are not to make one simple model as the saying goeth, Fischstichk, bake yourself! If you’re so keen on having other people to do your homeswork, I can suggest: a) for Petit's thing, simply to ask him how *he* thinks of this conjecture about the vertiginous cone-headed stuff (as I didn't see any justification of the statement that you took to be your brand-new technology); b) for the conjecture about dystributing the angular deficit, I have some thing to add, but you can just try sci.math, which might take a day or two to get a kindergarted-level dispute of the idea. I'm not outraged, but I am beginning to worry about your running out of oxygen in the rectal display unit, that you call, research -- 720 degrees worth? Or, you're just doin it for some ulterior purpose, because it's hard to imagine anyone to be so hard-headed about such a sinple thing; eh? Thus quoth: You never say why it is impossible, just that it is. Times up. Confess. I didn't think so. You can not explain the why behind your outrage. > what has to be proved is Petit's bogus application >of fluiddynamics "mappings" to cones-jammed-together, >and the ideal of evenly sytributing the 720-degree deficit >amongst any n "vertons;" go take a long swim in a short desert ocean (or, in other word, "WATER!" --H.Keller) --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:47:32 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: vertex order 13 Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's true, there aren't such ambiguities in graphtheory. as for voronoi cells, they aren't ambiguous, either, being defined by the areas that are equidistant from the cell-centers. of course, you can define any thing that you like. Thus quoth: Voronoi cells look like a good way to define "neighbor" to me but I imagine there are infinitely many possible ways to do that, and probably several others that are also reasonable. Is there any objection that you have to using voronoi cells to define "neighbor"? --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:51:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed as I recall from _Critical Path_, the closing-up of the geodesy of the globe didn't occur, til it something that Bucky could comment on. wasn't it associated with his work on the Brazilian 5-year planfor industrialization, where they connected Africa to S.America? so, Aristarchus was *still* correct. thus saith: in addition to government-sponsored geodesy of France, --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:53:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: vertexions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There is no difference between the polyhedron you describe here and what these n vertexions are. Unless you tell us what it might be. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > yes, I see that there's "multifreq." subdivision > of one the basic shapes that is "normalized" > so that it approximates a sphere; so, What? > these things can also be analyzed in terms > of the trihedrals (from the center, > dysregarding the spherical trigon on the surface; > see _Modern Pure Solid Geometry_ (yay !-) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:08:00 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: somebody's hero (off topic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Boy, is this guy wack! Does he know his geometry, though. From: http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/zayed_center.asp "In the question-and-answer session after his speech, LaRouche detailed his paranoid beliefs about the September 11 attacks and the Jews he claims are controlling American foreign policy. According to LaRouche, Osama bin Laden "could never have" orchestrated the September 11 attacks, which he believes "could not have happened without the connivance of something inside, very high level, inside the United States military command." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:26:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Geodesic dome -- mono element Comments: To: info@skatemate.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr Ellestad, I included you in my Buckminster Fuller Master Index because of your "Mono-Element" dome design which I found somewhere on the internet. But I didn't know where you lived (city, country). I see by your email that you are in Cork, Ireland. I will add that info to your entry unless you want me to use a different address. Do you have a web page where one may find more details re your dome design? ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 4:02 PM Subject: Geodesic dome -- mono element > REPEATING -- I found the following entry on the Internet. > > Does this refer, perhaps, to what is shown in the attachment? > > ---------------------- Item Separator ---------------------- > > > ELLESTAD > Everett M > ??-?? > > > Mono-Element Dome > > city? > > state? > > country? > > ______________________ Reply Separator ______________________ > > Greetings, > You have me listed as above. It is true that I have spent a lot of time > on a "mono-element" dome. > > I communicated with Buckminster Fuller a long time ago. > > What more do you wish to know exactly? > > Regards, > > Everett M. Ellestad > B.S., M.A., M.A. > info@skatemate.com > -- > > RAINBOW TECHNOLOGIES > Courthouse Chambers > 27/29 Washington Street, > Cork, Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:15:33 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: Problems In-Reply-To: <20021113191114.58759.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hey fishschtick,=20 Bee gentle with mi hermano gerardo pancho El 13/11/02 20:11, "Dick Fischbeck" escribi=F3: > Right on, Gerardo, give him hell (i think). >=20 > --- Gerardo Garcia wrote: >>> From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >>> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster >> Fuller's works >>> >>> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Problems >>=20 >> C?mon Quincy, this is a family list. Once and for all, >> what was the name of >> the party Mr. Fuller created? >>=20 >> the "zoon politicon" ? >>=20 >>> if that is so, then >>> perhaps we should question Bucky's paradigm >>> of "being an apolitical verb;" eh? >>>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:18:03 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: Problems In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable El 13/11/02 19:48, "Gerardo Garcia" escribi=F3: >> From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Problems >=20 > C=B4mon Quincy, this is a family list. Once and for all, what was the name = of > the party Mr. Fuller created? >=20 > the "zoon politicon" ? >=20 >> if that is so, then >> perhaps we should question Bucky's paradigm >> of "being an apolitical verb;" eh? >>=20 >> NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! >> --Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! >> http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm >>=20 >> thus quoth: >>> "Dear reader, traditional human power structures and their reign of >>> darkness are about to be rendered obsolete." >>=20 >>=20 >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail >=20 >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail Gerardo, =20 Hola tio. obviously quincy don't know miedrde about many things Pancho molleja ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:39:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Geodesic dome -- mono element In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Whoa, this is interesting! I wonder if it is a single strut, triangle or vertex. Let us know what you find, Joe. Thanks. --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Dear Mr Ellestad, > > I included you in my Buckminster Fuller Master Index > because of your > "Mono-Element" dome design which I found somewhere on the > internet. But I > didn't know where you lived (city, country). I see by > your email that you > are in Cork, Ireland. I will add that info to your entry > unless you want me > to use a different address. Do you have a web page where > one may find more > details re your dome design? > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 4:02 PM > Subject: Geodesic dome -- mono element > > > > REPEATING -- I found the following entry on the > Internet. > > > > Does this refer, perhaps, to what is shown in the > attachment? > > > > ---------------------- Item Separator > ---------------------- > > > > > > ELLESTAD > > > Everett M > > > ??-?? > > > > > > Mono-Element Dome > > > > city? > > > > state? > > > > country? > > > > ______________________ Reply Separator > ______________________ > > > > Greetings, > > You have me listed as above. It is true that I have > spent a lot of time > > on a "mono-element" dome. > > > > I communicated with Buckminster Fuller a long time ago. > > > > What more do you wish to know exactly? > > > > Regards, > > > > Everett M. Ellestad > > B.S., M.A., M.A. > > info@skatemate.com > > -- > > > > RAINBOW TECHNOLOGIES > > Courthouse Chambers > > 27/29 Washington Street, > > Cork, Ireland __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:22:31 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: somebody's hero (off topic) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed According to my geometry the role models mentioned below do not form any tetrahedron, or a synergetic body... But Quincy, Dick and Barry Lyndon make a stable triangle.... so far. Am I synergetic ? A girl that shines as a sun, in a list like this, once claimed to the boys that were fighting for her: Boys, please, let there be peace, this a list not a battleground! >From: Dick Fischbeck >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: somebody's hero (off topic) >Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:08:00 -0800 >Boy, is this guy wack! Does he know his geometry, though. > >From: > >http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/zayed_center.asp > >"In the question-and-answer session after his speech, >LaRouche detailed his paranoid beliefs about the September >11 attacks and the Jews he claims are controlling American >foreign policy. According to LaRouche, Osama bin Laden >"could never have" orchestrated the September 11 attacks, >which he believes "could not have happened without the >connivance of something inside, very high level, inside the >United States military command." > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site >http://webhosting.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:39:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Que onda Pancho? What pedo gorgory you? Quincy is Ok. What would this list be if not for him? But obvioulsy you are better. I mean synergetics is Dick+Quincy+Frankcho= more than Dick or Quincy or Pancho Did I did my homework? ("deberes" says Asnar) They talk about metaphysical synergetics and do not appreciate somebody from the península (Spain). As much as I appreciate Quincy, this list should be longing to speak to people all around the globe. saludos Pancho PS. "Juana la marrana (Gerardo) se cayó en un zacatal, vino Pancho con su gancho y la quiso rescatar". This means something like: "Joan D'arc got into a mess and the angelic wanted to rescue her". >From: Frank >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Problems > >El 13/11/02 19:48, "Gerardo Garcia" escribió: > > >> From: Quincy Quincy Quincy > >> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >> > >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Problems > > > > C´mon Quincy, this is a family list. Once and for all, what was the name >of > > the party Mr. Fuller created? > > > > the "zoon politicon" ? > > > >> if that is so, then > >> perhaps we should question Bucky's paradigm > >> of "being an apolitical verb;" eh? > >> > >> NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! > >> --Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! > >> http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm > >> > >> thus quoth: > >>> "Dear reader, traditional human power structures and their reign of > >>> darkness are about to be rendered obsolete." > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > >> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > >Gerardo, > >Hola tio. obviously quincy don't know miedrde about many things > >Pancho molleja _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:19:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's hero (off topic) Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, the ADL o'B'nai B'rith is a well-known hate-group, with roots in the Confederacy's Freemasonic "New Age" (that, being til recently the title of southern jurisdiction o'the Scottish Rite's magazine) -- same as the KKK. it is strictly improper to call it a Jewish organization, simply because it cultivates a Jewish membership. as you can see by going to any Lodge o'B'nai B'rith, it is primarily a Freemasonic thing (that is to say, a "secret society" !-) there most redolent product of the last decades is their multicultural curriculum, which is pandemic in the punlic schools. anyway, the ADL "on the left" and the Heritage Fdn. "on the right" were the ones that released the same, bogus "study" to show our alleged anti-Jewishism -- and to facilitate a "vast media conspiracy" to railroad seven of us into prisons. in other words, ** yours, two, Honey! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: > >http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/zayed_center.asp > > > >"In the question-and-answer session after his speech, > >LaRouche detailed his paranoid beliefs about the September > >11 attacks and the Jews he claims are controlling American > >foreign policy. According to LaRouche, Osama bin Laden > >"could never have" orchestrated the September 11 attacks, > >which he believes "could not have happened without the > >connivance of something inside, very high level, inside the > >United States military command." _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:23:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: vertexions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you're just blabbering, and you didn't say what you were trying to show, the first time ... or any time? most conjectures are doomed to fail, unless they're based on some well-founded intuition; yours appears to be founded on quicksand. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX thus qutoh: >There is no difference between the polyhedron you describe >here and what these n vertexions are. Unless you tell us >what it might be. you do your homework; I'll do anyone elses *but* yours -- for a small fee! > > yes, I see that there's "multifreq." subdivision > > of one the basic shapes that is "normalized" > > so that it approximates a sphere; so, What? > > these things can also be analyzed in terms > > of the trihedrals (from the center, > > dysregarding the spherical trigon on the surface; > > see _Modern Pure Solid Geometry_ (yay !-) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:51:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed we're just waiting for you -- or a crack team of anticipating/salivating Design Scientists -- to force those 4 sheetmetal cones together, without losing too-much blood in the process. the thing is that you'd have come-up -- were it possible, which remains to be dys/proven -- with a new class of quadric (2nd-degree equation'd) surfaces, heretofore unknown. so, have you?... note that polyhedra are not so equationable, although the individual planar facets can be gotten with linear equations. if you persist on your current course of "research," we're nver going to know if your conjecture has any basis, whatsoever. having used the sheetmetal "brake" to make simple stuff, you have to account for the radius of curvature & so forth for simple bends, but you purportedly only deal with unbent cones, so it should be a *different* problem. this one-sided dyscussion did make me think, that cones that do *not* have any circular cross-section -- that is "squished" or oval ones -- may not reduce to quedric (2nd-degree) form. otherwise, it's nothin' but Dick Shine! thus quoth: More word soup. Again, you say nothing that makes sense to me as to why it is impossible making polyhedra out of overlapping cones. If I am missing your point, maybe others are, too. If anyone here knows what Brian is on about, I'd sure like to hear. If it is kindergarden level, someone must be able to explain the problem, if there is one. --- In synergeo@y..., "Quincy Quincy Quincy" wrote: > If you're so keen on having other people >to do your homeswork, I can suggest: a) for Petit's thing, >simply to ask him how *he* thinks of this conjecture >about the vertiginous cone-headed stuff (as >I didn't see any justification of the statement that you took >to be your brand-new technology); b) >for the conjecture about dystributing the angular deficit, >I have some thing to add, but you can just try sci.math, >which might take a day or two to get a kindergarted-level dispute >of the idea. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:56:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's hero Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed chill, dude. it is not "equivalent" to the Freemasons; it *is* a Freemasonic institution. just go to Washington, DC, to the Freemasonic Lodge, with its scale-model replica of Gay Edgar Hoover's office -- I kid you, not!... you can also visit the statue of Albert Pike, the guy who organized Seccession as a Freemasonic project, in the area -- a dysgusting thing to be on federal land! or, just go to your loval B'nai B'rith "Lodge;" it's only a secret to people who don't know about it. thus quoth: I defy you to show me one piece of evidence that the ADL is a secret society equivalent to the Freemasons and the KKK-your anti-semitic raving has no place on this listing and totally discredits any posting of a "scientific" nature you might choose to poot out in the future ...in my eyes anyway.. Lou Geller NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:06:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's hero Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops; ADL is *not* a membership organization; they just collect money for their "anti" defamations. B'nai B'rith, like all lodges, is a membership org., as any "secret society" is by definition. Masonry has always been a strictly political cult, mostly British (as in Isreal, unfortunately), since the original guild masons of Egypt, who did get their hands, dirty! --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:02:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed only a third of'em; eh?... of course, you don't have to belong to any *other* lodge to belong to BB, and I doubt that they readily dysclose or ack any connection -- and there may be no formal ones -- til at least the umpteenth level. of course, I've never been to a BB lodge, although I've meant to go to a couple of events that I saw advertized for the Marina one (and I've a heard a couple of odd things about it). look-up Albert Pike, if you think it's so great to belong to such groups, before you join. he was the head of the judiciary of the Scottish Rite, Southern jurisdiction, through the "Civil" War, or the "War between the States" asa the Lost-causers call it. I'm not confusing ADL with JDL, which is nothing but a bunch o'thugs (even so, I hope that Irv Rubin gets better -- although I wouldn't be so happy, if he got back to "work!") I'd bet half a penny (sacred emblem of the Union) that "lodge" was adapted *from* the Irqiquois, if it wasn't what was used in Britain (NB: Prince Philip is the Grandmaster of the Mother Lodge of Masonry (not Free?)) thus quoth: Or so says: http://www.masonicinfo.com/bnaibrit.htm (which I have no reason to disbelieve). I don't think the word "lodge" is trademarked/owned by the Masons. Iroquois culture is likewise lodge-centric (in translation of course). --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:30:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:02:30 +0000 > Quincy, it is still the device. Heard of Charles Ives? musician, essayist, They say he invented the way to calculate the insurance policy and that later it was corrupted by the wall street boys towards the 1929 crack. Thus: the device was not bullet-proof Fuller said that any money evaporates in a bank in 10 years, that is a device. a corrupted one but a succesful device. You can proof me that all the money that goes to Israel comes from the protestant churchgoers all over the American countries north and south of the US. That would be a device. The problem is us. We do not agree in the minimun thing. BFI/org prides itself because the hypercar project claims inspiration on Fuller. Later hypercar prides itself because some ex dutch shell is becoming an investor. Who will make the decisions when the hypercar project is succesful?. Same thing when Steve JObs was leaking engine oil, who took the real decisions in Apple computers? It is us, we have to invent the device to grant a very secure life grant to all the crooks you mention. Otherwise, what does it mean to abandon the money game? (in Fuller terms) To abandon the money game means to turn everything upside down, what will happen with the people that live from the financial money games, will they stay arms crossed? I congratulate you for keeping a faith in sciencie, then according to Fuller maybe the solution will be impersonal (given by the computers). Still, we would have to live all together (whites and blacks and every other color) I also have a faith in science, but first the scientists have to be able to talk to each others and to talk wiht the other disciplines as well. No flame, no good bye money game? regards Gerardo >only a third of'em; eh?... of course, >you don't have to belong to any *other* lodge >to belong to BB, and I doubt that >they readily dysclose or ack any connection >-- and there may be no formal ones -- >til at least the umpteenth level. > of course, I've never been to a BB lodge, >although I've meant to go to a couple of events >that I saw advertized for the Marina one (and >I've a heard a couple of odd things about it). > >look-up Albert Pike, if you think it's so great >to belong to such groups, before you join. >he was the head of the judiciary of the Scottish Rite, >Southern jurisdiction, through the "Civil" War, or >the "War between the States" asa the Lost-causers call it. > I'm not confusing ADL with JDL, >which is nothing but a bunch o'thugs (even so, >I hope that Irv Rubin gets better -- although >I wouldn't be so happy, if he got back to "work!") > >I'd bet half a penny (sacred emblem of the Union) that >"lodge" was adapted *from* the Irqiquois, if >it wasn't what was used in Britain (NB: >Prince Philip is the Grandmaster >of the Mother Lodge of Masonry (not Free?)) > >thus quoth: >Or so says: http://www.masonicinfo.com/bnaibrit.htm (which I >have no reason to disbelieve). > >I don't think the word "lodge" is trademarked/owned by the Masons. >Iroquois culture is likewise lodge-centric (in translation of course). > >--A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): >Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! >http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:15:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Disaster Fitness Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (About domes and disasters) Oregon Dome Info Series #11: http://www.domes.com/dis11.pdf =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 05:00:03 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed why are you encouraging him? this is strictl a bunch o'crap: a misinformed idea of the 720-degree deficit, and b) a tupid idea about cones that he trolled of of some fluiddynamics guy's site! Re: ongoing conehead battle.... You are not, Q, I take it, envisioning tall, thin cones? My umbrella example should have been enough for you, but I guess you don't calm that easily. Shallow cones should rain-sheddingly overlap without too much trouble. (No, * I * have not built a Fischbeck model, *either*, to see if it works.) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:07:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed sorry to say, but your d) seems to cover it: a quid-pro-quo of covering the other's ass! Plainly, you haven't grokked any of the one-sided discussion – either side of it!… I mean, it was "Dick" who brought Descartes 720-degree deficit into this polyconal morass, so why don't you get him to try to explain?… I think that he doesn't quite see, that one does not have to prove Descartes' result *de novo* -- although one should give it a small try, because one might be suprized at how easy it is to do – but simply to read any of the simple proofs that are out there, in the elementary literature. As it is, he doesn't have the slightest clue as to what it means, other than "Wow; it happens to be the same number of degrees in the angles of the trigona of the tetra-asteron!" The other stuff that you say is rather in the manner of ill-founded hypotheses, although somewhat Buckafkan. I mean, are you *sure* that we have bowling-balls? Thus quoth: I give him some positive support because: b) the overlapping *shallow* cones idea is visible to me in a painting (that I referred to) as umbrellas, and in certain shield-using (Roman; medeival) tactical formations mildly curved shields overlap each other both laterally and somewhat overhead, c) I have not done a physical or computer model of what he's on about (and I'd *not* want to be one who decries without decanting), and What the hell has the 720 degree deficit to do with overlapping cones to make some cheap fast (portable?) housing? Those degrees are in a triangulated curved plane: in the digitization limit, a polygonated spherical surface. Those 720 degrees can come from *anywhere*; they don't have to be in little pockets of large angular deficits. They could be miniscule, to say 'infinitesimal,' increments of deficit spread out all *over* the place: The more cones you have, the more places you can divide up the deficit, and the more the "cones" approach spheres (hubcaps, say, or frisbees, satellite dishes, tight umbrellas and shields and dinner plates), the more broadly across each UU (unit umbrella ;)) the deficit can be spread. We do have bowling balls. They are round (spherical), and because they're made of atoms, they're digitized, triangulated outside, tetragonated within. But, we don't see Euler's twelve-hole-ness anywhere on them, (thus lanes are not built for icosahedral balls), so of what significance is your argument using angular deficit? Low-face number polygons have these large, localized, visibly angular shapes to them, prodding a question how to fit shapes to shapes to achieve any given result; the 'missing' 720 degrees is clearly apparent, and often problematic. Bowling balls roll wonderfully well, so what's wrong with the idea of using unit-radius UUs with extremely shallow curvature -or manymany of them- to cover space and people? Cones are merely closer-approximates to spherical curvature, be they of good churacture. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:26:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: vertex order 13 Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This, I can sink my teeth into (it doesn’t run away, squealing, “I have 720-degrees of angular deficit, therefore I am!,” like the Coneheads’ concern.) It should be noted that, while the “spheres” (dodeca-chi-asteral shapes) are turning into “spaces” (hexa-chi-asteral voids), the latter that were there, the (octahedral) voids to begin with in the IVM, are turning into the former (“spheres” or cuboctohedral shapes (sic; dodeca-chi-asteral)). The most interesting thing is, though I have only the tiny suggestion of it – if it’s for real, as I think that it is – from the small “sculpture” at BFI in Culver City: the whole IVM does not have to transform “isometrically,” as it were, but is supposed to have a lot of freedom to do so locally. Thus, it’s a model for an ideal medium (an aether e.g.) I frankly don’t see how the jitterbug can go through even 4 of the dodeca-gamma-asteron’s vertices, although 3 of'em might be trivial, so to say; did Russel prove this? Prease to zoom-in onto the cabooses of the bozonic-photonic railroad circles, in future; gracias! Thus quoth: As Bob Gray showed during his recent presentation at Russ Chu HQS, in Falls Church, VA, the pentagonal dodecahedron is also swept through, though not with all vertices getting hit on any one jitterbug (makes sense: penta dodeca is dual to icosa, so has 20 vertices -- too many for the 12 vertexed cubocta to match up with). Bob also discussed the elliptical trajectory of the vertices, which may be envisioned as slanty cross-sections through cylinders defined by the 4 pairs of opposite triangles (Joe Clinton had done similar studies a few decades ago). But after octaphase, there are several ways to run the cartoon (e.g. triangles change size, or stay same size but pass through each other). Bob ran through a couple of these. You can find the details on his website. You need to zoom back and see more of the IVM ocean. Without doing the transformation, if I just take the octahedral voids, and connect them, center to center, with rods of unit length, I'll define a whole other IVM skeleton, identical to the one interconnecting the centers of the actually tuned in balls. By analogy, picture a grid consisting of XYZ cubes -- culturally engrained. I think you'll readily agree that if I put a dot at the center of each cube, and interconnect those, I'll get another XYZ grid. But if you just look at a single cube, instead of a whole 3D city of cubes, you'll say (by analogy): I'm replacing the eight corners of a cube with just one dot in the center -- so how is it that I end up with the same number of dots? >If I draw something on a ball and shrink the ball, the drawing changes only >in size. How is the drawing changing into an icosahedron, and then other >things? Well, it's my cartoon, so I can make anything happen I want. I'm trying to shadow or allude to the other jitterbugs. It must be that the photonic great circle pathways of transluminous gravitational coherence are deconstructing into icosaphasal electronic holding patterns, enroute to their more fermionic endstates (with apologies to ryobonics, which I'm sure describes the phenomenon differently). --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:28:00 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's hero Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It cannot be my job to find all of the connections of the ADL and KKK to the Freemasons. Albert Pike, simply, is the leading example of their awfulness (although they do tend to be philanthropic, of course). As for undead ones, go no-further than Prince Philip! It must always be noted, with an eye to possible claims of defamation, that a) not all Jews are bankers and b) not all bankers are Jews; we'll just ignore the fact that the last two Fedrul Rezurv Chairguys are nominally-so (that is, they should not be taken as hallmarks of the creed .-) Thus quoth: http://the-philosophers-stone.com/regulars/books/reviews/triumph.htm http://www.aquatabch.org/afwe/biblio/0198207441.html >look-up Albert Pike, if you think it's so great >to belong to such groups, before you join. Yeah, I've read some of that. But with any movement or school as ramified and old as the Masons, it's always possible to disavow, disassociate, or simply rue and regret. The Catholic Church can do --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:28:31 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's hero Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It cannot be my job to find all of the connections of the ADL and KKK to the Freemasons. Albert Pike, simply, is the leading example of their awfulness (although they do tend to be philanthropic, of course). As for undead ones, go no-further than Prince Philip! It must always be noted, with an eye to possible claims of defamation, that a) not all Jews are bankers and b) not all bankers are Jews; we'll just ignore the fact that the last two Fedrul Rezurv Chairguys are nominally-so (that is, they should not be taken as hallmarks of the creed .-) Thus quoth: http://the-philosophers-stone.com/regulars/books/reviews/triumph.htm http://www.aquatabch.org/afwe/biblio/0198207441.html >look-up Albert Pike, if you think it's so great >to belong to such groups, before you join. Yeah, I've read some of that. But with any movement or school as ramified and old as the Masons, it's always possible to disavow, disassociate, or simply rue and regret. The Catholic Church can do --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:31:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: quaternions Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that is a great book. I think it may be one, that shows how Gibbs took-apart quaternions, to make the seperate operations of "inner and outer product." there's also a nice formula for the moebius strip (a.k.a. the twisted cylinder .-) thus quoth: F.Y.I) There is an interesting book called "The History of Vector Analysis" by Michael Crowe which goes into the development of quaternions-sounds like exciting reading, huh? --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:02:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's hero Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed any mention of Ford is strictyl to do with world-around industrial transformations. of course, RBF neglects to mention Carnot, "the angel of victory," although I certainly *hope* that he mentions Franklin; does he? [note that the reviews of the new PBS thing show it to be typical BS, as to his scientific-historical relavents, alas. so, I won't try to get a TV to watch it .-] well, you're th one who believes in a hereditary religion -- yo mama!... as for Zionism, you should really look to its Xian fundy promoters, like Falwell and Roertson, as well as to look-up the term, "British Israelites" and their Temple Mount fanatics (its just a doctrine of the state-church; you know, the one whose school, harry-the-Potter lives at -- Doh.) thus quoth: There are numerous references in Fuller's books to the greatness of Ford (Nine Chains, Earth, Inc. and his first manifesto 4D) so I have to assume that Ford was a major inspiration in the development of his ideas of industrial housing. --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:13:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: n-gons & ln(2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is totally awesome (I think; let me try to see if it works !-) qqquet@mindspring.com (Leroy Quet) wrote in message news:... >Easily-found geometry / logarithmic curriosity: > >(Hard to explain with words alone) > >Start with an equilateral triangle (regular 3-gon) placed in the >polar-coordinate plane such that one vertex is at the origin and one >side is along the theta =0 line. >Now place a square (regular 4-gon) such that one vertex is on the >origin as well, and one side is along the side of the triangle along >the line theta =pi/3 and an adjacent side is along the line theta >=-pi/6. >And continue (placing a pentagon, hexagon, etc...) to place each >regular n-gon, n increasing by one each time, so that one vertex is on >the origin and one side of the n-gon is along a side of the >(n-1)-gon, the side alternating between the side on the bottom and the >side on the top, and such that the n-gon lies across the theta =0 >line. > >As n approaches infinity, the top and bottom sides approach a line >through the origin with a slope of: > >pi *(2 -2*ln(2)) > >(or in other words) > >pi *(1 -2*ln(2)) > >This is obviously a result of: The angle between each adjacent side of a >regular n-gon is >pi (1 -2/n). --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:06:32 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: somebody's hero Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: somebody's hero >Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:02:10 +0000 Well, this is not hexadecimal, this is English. I do not agree with BFI.ORG`s politics of retaining some of Mr. Fuller`s copyrights on some books. I am really interested in the Nine chains's chapter on Einstein. I have no credit card, Amazon is panicking from the same instrument it tried to cash in (the internet) and feel that it is an oxymoron: Fuller's writing for any amount of dollars. The same with Teilhard de Chardin's books; it is ridicule that the Museum of natural History www site in France (the Teilhard de Chardin`s works holders) have a link to a Wired article ("A brain cltohing the earth" or something like that. I you want the links I can yahoogle it) that states what anybody that had read Teilhard`s books could understand: that he foresaw very clearly the coming of internet (the same can be said of the argentinian writer Jorge LUis Borges, in a very little phrase of his short story "El Aleph") AND that precisely those holders do not have Teilhard`s ouvre in the internet in a basis "pay what you can if you want". Otherwise, anybody can has suspicions about the truth of their ideas. I mean, they teach about leaving everything for the sake of truth and their immediate heirs can't leave the grasp on the writings. By the way, could anybody resume for the list the chapter on Einstein of Nine chains to the moon. By the way. If you are interested on Teilhard de Chardin, read Man's place in nature (The human zoological group). I do not think that it is necessary to read much more of his books to grasp the main ideas. But I want to insist. Quincy, I had the pleasure to hear the senate hearings on the Clinton illegal reelection funds attempted nailing in 1997 presided by the most comprehensive cast the american taxpayers could have aspìred. Mr. Thompson and Mr. Glenn (a point of view from the spirit of arts bound with a point of view from outerspace) and what? another device: the communicating vessels of the VE of the equal but never the same amounts given to democrats and republicans. and what? It is a device. What are the device we propose just for the sake of diversity? I insist it is all, or it is nobody. You do not want to tell me the amount necessary to grant anybody in the undesired devices a five stars ever and ever life for them and their offspring. As far as I understand (and I do believe it) Mr. Fuller said that WEALTH (in his words) was ripe. the next is a Gerardo joke (just for relieving pressure) I ask you about the amount just to see how much will I have to unbury from the Cayman purse. (I know that crocodile purses are banned already that is why it has to be done out of the reach of children) Don`t you think it is the very first step? to know how much do the world has to spend. C'mon, don't oblige me to Bukafkompose with the "just think how much would it cost not to do it". Feeling how much we are divided. sometimes it makes more sense the butchery (Harry Potter's or whoever's) CAUSE things can't go on an on the way they are in a given moment. That was T. de Chardin's conclusion after beign a stretcher bearer in the WWW I. But if you do not have faith in nature. Just think that maybe nature is what obliges the media to reveal the Prestige heritage of the Exxon Valdez et al. and the Gibraltar connection. Is it not enough for you Quincy that a paradox as poetical as the name Prestige occurs in the eyes of the (now truly) whole world related to the Spain's oil spill? Precisely to the state that claims that is making its homework (and thus the good numbers (?)) in economy, etc.? (Spain) what else can you ask from nature? If we agree that it was not planned by any dark device group. Hail for your efforts. What about a rudder trimtab little change? Tijuana would be OK. Gerardo >any mention of Ford is strictyl to do >with world-around industrial transformations. of course, >RBF neglects to mention Carnot, "the angel of victory," although >I certainly *hope* that he mentions Franklin; does he? >[note that the reviews of the new PBS thing show it >to be typical BS, as to his scientific-historical relavents, >alas. so, I won't try to get a TV to watch it .-] > >well, you're th one >who believes in a hereditary religion -- >yo mama!... as for Zionism, >you should really look to its Xian fundy promoters, >like Falwell and Roertson, as well as to look-up the term, >"British Israelites" and their Temple Mount fanatics >(its just a doctrine of the state-church; you know, >the one whose school, harry-the-Potter lives at -- Doh.) > >thus quoth: >There are numerous references in Fuller's books to the greatness of >Ford (Nine Chains, Earth, Inc. and his first manifesto 4D) so I have >to assume that Ford was a major inspiration in the development of his >ideas of industrial housing. > >--A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): >Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! >http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:04:29 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: points on a plane Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is there any reason I can't tile a plane with all same area, all different shape triangles? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:06:45 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: tets in space Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How about, can I tile space with all same volume, all different shape tets? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:09:46 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: tets in space Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can I fill space with equal volumed, all different shaped tets? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:48:52 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yes, there is. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >Is there any reason I can't tile a plane with all same >area, all different shape triangles? _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:52:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: tets in space Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed no, you can't. of course, you might be able to do so, starting from one tetrahedron and adding to that, but it seems that the "degrees o'freedom" rapidly would decrease for choosing more tetra-astera; eh? NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >How about, can I tile space with all same volume, all >different shape tets? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:56:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: tets in space Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed now, this is mostly gibberish to *me*, but you can get a flavor for the interdependencies of math, in general, that exclude such wild generalization, just by parsing the verbforms. I mean, one can make such generalizations but, if one knows Shinola (tm) from any old ****, then one quickly looks for more particular statements (or equations, which should be the *last* step, obviously .-) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >How about, can I tile space with all same volume, all >different shape tets? _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:57:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: tets in space Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops -- here's the quote: Just one example. You keep complaining that the radius r is positive and the Fourier transform would not take care of that. Well, if you just take your radially symmetric function and do a 1D FT, than the transform you obtain is not what you might think it to be. Of course you can do that, but the result is not just so easily interpreted. But nobody does that. If you have a radially symmetric function, you take the 3D FT, do a coordinate transform to spherical coordinates and then solve a much simpler integral, similar to a sine transform. There is absolutely nothing special about that. Physics students usually learn that in their second year. thus saith: now, this is mostly gibberish to *me*, but you can get a flavor for the interdependencies of math, in general, that exclude such wild generalization, just by parsing the verbforms. I mean, one can make such generalizations but, if one knows Shinola (tm) from any old ****, then one quickly looks for more particular statements (or equations, which should be the *last* step, obviously .-) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >How about, can I tile space with all same volume, all >different shape tets? _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:10:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: quaternions Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed That’s really nice, mister Ace. Have you seen the work with pendulums etc. by Alain what's-his-name?… See http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/ thus quoth: I have a pendulum clock that I regulate to keep good time. A few years ago, I moved from an elevation of 260' to 4500', thereby increasing my distance from the center of the earth by about 1 part in 5000. (I'm ignoring the distance change due to the oblateness of the earth; I changed my latitude by only about one degree.) The clock ran about 1 part in 5000 slower, roughly 2 minutes a week (easily noticed; the clock was regulated substantially better than that). --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:16:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: n-gons & ln(2) Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >This is obviously a result of: The angle between each adjacent side of a >regular n-gon is >pi (1 -2/n). [from below] now, can you prove (derive) this simple fromula "in the plane," and apply it directly to find Descartes 720-degree deficit. yes, you can at least try! >triangle (regular 3-gon) placed in the >polar-coordinate plane such that one vertex is at the origin and one >side is along the theta =0 line. >Now place a square (regular 4-gon) such that one vertex is on the >origin as well, and one side is along the side of the triangle along >the line theta =pi/3 and an adjacent side is along the line theta >=-pi/6. >And continue (placing a pentagon, hexagon, etc...) to place each >regular n-gon, n increasing by one each time, so that one vertex is on >the origin and one side of the n-gon is along a side of the >(n-1)-gon, the side alternating between the side on the bottom and the >side on the top, and such that the n-gon lies across the theta =0 >line. > >As n approaches infinity, the top and bottom sides approach a line >through the origin with a slope of: > >pi *(2 -2*ln(2)) > >(or in other words) > >pi *(1 -2*ln(2)) > >This is obviously a result of: The angle between each adjacent side of a >regular n-gon is >pi (1 -2/n). NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:27:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: MODELS Comments: To: Illuminate01@webtv.net Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Illuminate01, I don't sell geodesic domes. I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to two groups that have members that may be able to help you. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:15 AM Subject: MODELS > WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE MODELS TO WALK THROUGH. WILL BE IN TN > THE WEEK OF THANKSGIVING. THANK YOU > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:22:02 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: points on a plane In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm so glad you think so, Dr. Toosmart. This will be fun. Let's hear the reason. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > yes, there is. > thus quoth: > >Is there any reason I can't tile a plane with all same > >area, all different shape triangles? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:43:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I know a line can be divided into equal parts. I think a plane can be divided into equal area irregular triangles or equal area irregular hexagons, and space can be divided into equal volume irregular tets or equal volume irregular pentagonal dodecahedra. If this is true, it might be an easy way to account for area and volume topologically in an otherwise mixed-up system. We already know irregular tets fill space. Why can't they all be of equal volume? If they can be, then there is something constant to count in a dynamic system, such as a gas in a balloon. Isn't this what Avogadro figured out? Irregular tets can fill space, 20 of them around a vertex, 5 around an edge. If their volumes are equal, we have a kind of irregular isotropy. On another point, since we can't use the word sphere, we can't use the word circle either. We have to say great polygon instead. This great polygon is a quarter of the area of its polyhedron's surface area. Right? At least for centrally symmetric polyhedra. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:33:30 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: linda Subject: Re: MODELS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would be pleased to show you a model in Veneta, Oregon, week of Thanksgiving is great. 1-800-572-8943 linda@domes.com Linda -----Original Message----- From: Joe S Moore Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:49 PM Subject: Re: MODELS >Dear Illuminate01, > >I don't sell geodesic domes. I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to two >groups that have members that may be able to help you. > >============================== >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info <========== N E W >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >============================= > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:15 AM >Subject: MODELS > > >> WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE MODELS TO WALK THROUGH. WILL BE IN TN >> THE WEEK OF THANKSGIVING. THANK YOU >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:26:26 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: FA Subject: Re: points on a plane In-Reply-To: <20021121154338.69123.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >On another point, since we can't use the word sphere, we can't use the word circle either. We have to say great polygon instead. This great polygon is a quarter of the area of its polyhedron's surface area. Right? At least for centrally symmetric polyhedra. Cannot a string be tied around a stick, poking out of the ground, its other end tied to another stick scribingly rotated around, in more approximately circular than polygonal fashion, until it reaches the starting point? Foerd ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:15:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the ratio of the areas of the GC to its sphere (1/4) only applies to specific shapes; the tetrahedron's the only one that I can think of, yet-another reason why it's the simplest conceptual one! (yes, it will *approach the 1/4 ration, as it becomes more spherical (or more tetragonal, as the case could be). for instance, it's easy to show that tetragonal (square) area of the hexa-asteron (octahedron) is in an *irrational* ratio to the sum of the 8 trigona's areas (what it is, exactly, is of no importance to me *at this very moment-being* .-) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: > >On another point, since we can't use the word sphere, we >can't use the word circle either. We have to say great >polygon instead. This great polygon is a quarter of the >area of its polyhedron's surface area. Right? At least for >centrally symmetric polyhedra. > >Cannot a string be tied around a stick, poking out of the ground, its other >end tied to another stick scribingly rotated around, in more approximately >circular than polygonal fashion, until it reaches the starting point? well, try it !?! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:34:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed if I told you after either a) I tried to prove it myself, again, or b) strolled over to the 510 Dewey Decimals to see if I could find it, I'd have removed every bit of the "fun," for *you*. if you don't care, then don't bring it "up." thank you! oh, let me just say one thing: "tiling" gnerally involves using modules, at least one -- but not "all of the triangular shards that I can find, that have the same area." that is, it's a bit of a nonsequiter, which seems to be one thing at which you excell. mazeltov, dude! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com thus quoth: >Let's hear the reason. > >--- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > yes, there is. > > > thus quoth: > > >Is there any reason I can't tile a plane with all same > > >area, all different shape triangles? _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:42:35 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed welcome to Beauxeaux Synonyme, madames et monsieurs. if I weren't using the "digest" function, I might have already filtered you out -- sorry to say! seriously, though, you have a never-finished pile of untried conjectures, which can't be useful til you hack-away at at least one of'em. what you *have* compiled is "an otherwise mixed-up system" or, your best dyscription thus-far, "wordsoup." on the wayside, your strange conjecture about "great polgona," at least gets one thing correct: it only makes any sense, at all, for cnetrally-s. shapes. congratulation! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >I know a line can be divided into equal parts. I think a >plane can be divided into equal area irregular triangles or >equal area irregular hexagons, and space can be divided >into equal volume irregular tets or equal volume irregular >pentagonal dodecahedra. > >If this is true, it might be an easy way to account for >area and volume topologically in an otherwise mixed-up >system. > >We already know irregular tets fill space. Why can't they >all be of equal volume? If they can be, then there is >something constant to count in a dynamic system, such as a >gas in a balloon. Isn't this what Avogadro figured out? > >Irregular tets can fill space, 20 of them around a vertex, >5 around an edge. If their volumes are equal, we have a >kind of irregular isotropy. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:58:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: somebody's zero? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The chapter that you seek, as I recall, is called, "Mrs. Murphy’s Cow [etc.]," and simply relates the time when he visited E. at his office in Princeton U., and how in awe he was of E. around there, and how E. thought that his metaphor of the Cow was as good of an every-day explanation of "energy equals the speed of light to the second-power," as he’d seen til then. Or, am I recalling the discussion of his visit, and the mention of the chapter, that's in _C_ (A Post- humous Scenario for Humanity, tee-hee –Kiyoshi) ?? Incidentally, and John'd kill me for relating this, again, but I'd come-back to BFI to get one of the copies of _9 Chains_ that they'd had for the original price, but he'd gotten rid of them! I'm sure that the *Wired* article is real knee-slapper, because this is the same bogus theology that is taken-up in the cover-feature of the *WAND Weview* of Fall, 2000, the article in which they embrace a) "American hegemony and b) neighborhood councils. of course, they didn't bother to mention that they'd just been the primary consultant to both LA Charter Reform Commissions, the main ideal of which was to institute these councils (not unlike what they'd done in NYC in '75, the ignominy of it). As could be known from the mention, that the councils are popular in Europe, it is not correct to refer to such a hegemony, without including the prefix of "Anglo-" onto it; it's against the Monroe Doctrine! I don't get what you're trying to say about Clinton; at least, he tried. Gore is tha one, to whom a lot of come-uppance is owed; namely, just to boot him off of the ballot, come the primary! You "magic realists" have an especial problem with "English as an other language," I must say. Thus quoth: copyrights on some books. I am really interested in the Nine chains's chapter on Einstein. I have no credit card, Amazon is panicking from the same instrument it tried to cash in (the internet) and feel that it is an oxymoron: Fuller's writing for any amount of dollars. The same with Teilhard de Chardin's books; it is ridicule that the Museum of natural History www site in France (the Teilhard de Chardin`s works holders) have a link to a Wired article ("A brain cltohing the earth" or something like that. I you want the links I can yahoogle it) that states what anybody that had read Teilhard`s books could understand: that he foresaw very clearly the coming of internet (the same can be said of the argentinian writer Jorge LUis Borges, in a very little phrase of his short story "El Aleph") AND that precisely those holders do not have Teilhard`s ouvre in the internet in a basis "pay what you can if you want". Otherwise, anybody can has suspicions about the truth of their ideas. I mean, they teach about leaving everything for the sake of truth and their immediate heirs can't leave the grasp on the writings. But I want to insist. Quincy, I had the pleasure to hear the senate hearings on the Clinton illegal reelection funds attempted nailing in 1997 presided by the most comprehensive cast the american taxpayers could have aspìred. Mr. Thompson and Mr. Glenn (a point of view from the spirit of arts bound with a point of view from outerspace) --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:02:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: n-gons & ln(2) Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops. I didn't look too-hard at the given form of the "angular deficit" for convex polgona: the usual form is pi(n-2) for the sum og tha angles -- what is to prove -- and that's divided by the number of angles, n, to get the size of each "regular" angle. pi, of course, being the (so-called) dimensionless neasure of radians, or 180 degrees. thus quoth: >This is obviously a result of: The angle between each adjacent side of a >regular n-gon is >pi (1 -2/n). [from below] now, can you prove (derive) this simple fromula "in the plane," and apply it directly to find Descartes 720-degree deficit. yes, you can at least try! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:06:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's hero Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed reality used to be a friend of ours; eh? it's ridiculous to blame Prescott B. for carrying-out the British policies of Brown Bros. Harriman; he was just the CEO of a subsidiary! if you look at Zbiggy's last book, _The Grand Chessboard_, he actually cites his forbearers in geopolitics, the British Halford Mackinder and the German, General Haushofer (which is the answer to the trick question: "Who wrote my story?") thus qutoh: Rhetoric is the operative word-the US has never been torn in its imperialist designs and the ruthlessness by which it attempts to attain global hegemony but the rhetoric is only now becoming untangled as "terrorism" becomes the new "communism" and young people are sent off to fight the new boogie man. Fuller had it right as did Eisenhower-beware the military-industrial complex and their media and political stooges. Israeli politics has yet to reach that level of deceit. Lou Geller That's a bit naive..Don't you think that US support of Israel is based on the fact that for 50 years we needed a military presence in the Middle East to protect our oil investments and supply. Can't you see that once we take over Iraq and establish our bases there and in Saudi Arabia, Israel can more or less go down the drain as far as our "pro-Israel" government is concerned-don't tell me that George Bush is pro-Israeli-the Bush family were known Nazi-sympathizers-his grandfather Prescott and great-grand dad Edward Walker provided loans to Hitler- --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:01:54 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: somebody's zero? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: somebody's zero? >Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:58:33 +0000 >> I don't get what you're trying to say >about Clinton; at least, he tried. Gore is tha one, I liked him, somebody said that he had been the first non white president. I was trying to say that the equally (same to democrats, same to republicans) amounts to the 1996 campaing funds coming from the east, constituted a device. The kind of device we do not oppose anything against. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:55:00 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Lou & #20*3 Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm going to try not to correct you, no more, as I don't want you to take it, personally, no more. (I'll let the list-owner have that honor .-) Calsium-40'd be one isotope of calcium, but I don't know that it's stable. iron is supposed to be the most stable (can't release energy by either fusion or fission, apparently). Calcium is a non-magnetic metal element. I read that calcium is the most stable of all metal elements. If not the most stable it may close to top of list. Remember bone is mostly calcium. Any way it has 20 protons, 20 electrons and 20 neutrons. --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:05:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's hero Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.wealth4freedom.com/Elkhorn5.html Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm the second URL (in my sigfile, two) has a chapter on the Buch connection, which is told by the son of the attorney who uncovered it (the co-author). the stuff about oil is mostly a lefty/environmentalist hype about the so-called fossilized fuels. these are hardly interests of "Amerika, the free" per se. as you can easily verify, the Admin. supports the Kyoto Protocol absolutely, as do the oil cos. the 'WAND' Corp. had already taken charge of the "MIC" by the time that Eisenhower made that rather long & interesting statement that that soundbite comes from. for the current policy-making previe, see http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ -- where you can find the bogus noopolitik that they and Chardin made-up (no mention of Vernadsky!) thus quoth: That's a bit naive..Don't you think that US support of Israel is based on the fact that for 50 years we needed a military presence in the Middle East to protect our oil investments and supply. Can't you thus quoth: are sent off to fight the new boogie man. Fuller had it right as did Eisenhower-beware the military-industrial complex and their media and political stooges. Israeli politics has yet to reach that level of deceit. Lou Geller thus saith: I'm sure that the *Wired* article is real knee-slapper, because this is the same bogus theology that is taken-up in the cover-feature of the *WAND Weview* of Fall, 2000, the article in which they embrace a) "American hegemony and b) neighborhood councils. of course, they didn't bother to mention that they'd just been the primary consultant to both LA Charter Reform Commissions, the main ideal of which was to institute these councils (not unlike what they'd done in NYC in '75, the ignominy of it). As could be known from the mention, that the councils are popular in Europe, it is not correct to refer to such a hegemony, without including the prefix of "Anglo-" onto it; it's against the Monroe Doctrine! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:26:03 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Wired Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Quincy knee, stomach, forehead slapping: First link, the Wired article. Second link: a link in the official TEilhard site pointing to the same article (different www page) There you have it. de Chardin and Vernadsky happily living in the same page. Don't read the name Gore in the article!!! http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.06/teilhard.html http://www.mnhn.fr/teilhard/actualite1.htm I mean, the official french Teilhard de Chardin site, includes an article by a woman theologian. That's inclusion. It would be nice to hear of BFI.ORG and the Teilhard site saying they share common visions toward peace. Gerardo _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:51:47 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: points on a plane In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bucky explains the reason between than I could. I could find some passages if you wanted. Basically, all energy events can be accounted for in terms of angle and frequency; mass times velocity in some direction. No spheres, no circles. Just polyvertexia and polygons. --- FA wrote: > >On another point, since we can't use the word sphere, we > can't use the word circle either. We have to say great > polygon instead. This great polygon is a quarter of the > area of its polyhedron's surface area. Right? At least > for > centrally symmetric polyhedra. > > Cannot a string be tied around a stick, poking out of the > ground, its other > end tied to another stick scribingly rotated around, in > more approximately > circular than polygonal fashion, until it reaches the > starting point? > Foerd __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:02:12 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: points on a plane In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > the ratio of the areas of the GC to its sphere (1/4) > only applies to specific shapes; > the tetrahedron's the only one that I can think of, > yet-another reason why it's the simplest conceptual one! > (yes, it will *approach the 1/4 ration, > as it becomes more spherical (or more tetragonal, > as the case could be). > for instance, > it's easy to show that tetragonal (square) area > of the hexa-asteron (octahedron) is > in an *irrational* ratio to the sum > of the 8 trigona's areas (what it is, exactly, > is of no importance to me > *at this very moment-being* .-) Don't you find it odd that this ratio of 4:1 holds for the most different cases, the sphre and the tet? But you say it does not apply to other polyhedra? The octa has a surface of 8 and a great polygon of 2, no? The icosa's surface is 20 and its great polygon has an area of 5. Or so my investigation goes. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:29:41 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: aluminum-house-on-a-pole Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Not far off from Bucky's idea of aircraft industry construction standards in housing. http://www.airplanehomes.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:13:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: aluminum-house-on-a-pole Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed just when I'd thought, I'd seen every thing. of course, it may not be the most energy-efficient "design" for a home, around. thus quoth: Why an Aircraft Home? Below, two cranes lift an airplane home to place it on top of a steel column. The home will smoothly rotate on it's large bearing. Water, sewer and electricity will be connected and the airplane home will be free to weathervane. Both wings will have decks with handrails. You can sit outside on the decked wing, above the trees and enjoy the breeze. You are safe from floods. During hurricanes, your home smoothly changes direction, pointing into the wind. You can safely stay inside during the high winds and watch TV. The large surface area on the vertical stabilizer (tail) makes the airplane home a natural weathervane. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm >Not far off from Bucky's idea of aircraft industry >construction standards in housing. > >http://www.airplanehomes.com/ _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:52:26 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: somebody's zero? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you undead puppies. when one attacks another's "style," without showing where it is that it's is so horribly wrong, that one is known as an "argumentarium ad hominemaniac." thus quoth: I finally figured something out: you're so anti-Anglo that you won't even deign to use the English language. Aha! The light goes on. --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:59:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Blackmoor and cake Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've forgotten teh part about the (approximate) ratio of the electron to the proton in _S_, but I can certainly go farther on the notorious _BC_. this was constructed with a single "prediction" that wasn't ex post facto, that the PM'd be assassinated. the thing is such a gross mis-use of elementart numbertheory, as to enable the construction of any string of text, from any ring of all of the characters of (whatever) alphabet (that is, _War and Peace_, _Dick and Jane_ or just the 26 letters of the alphabet in any order, whatsoever). the fact that old Hebrew had no vowels, just makles it a bit quicker to plow through the text, "RBN,H GN DDDDDDDDDD[ie]!" the follow-up book, _Cracking the Bible Code_, actually (unintentionally?) exposes the cult that did the "scholarly" dirty work, Aish Ha-Torah. (As an indication of how easy this is, check into "the Bible Code," in which people with computers and mysterious algorithms can find nearly any modern-English wording they care to, in the mathematical arrangements of characters in various Bible verses.) --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:03:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I take it back about 4:1 ration of the tetrahedron, per its "square" midsection, but it's still neat that each facet is 1/4 of the total, just like the GC of the sphere. your "investigation" is worse than wrong; you simply don't know how to state the hypothesis, at this moment-being. go away, for a while -- sleep it off! > for instance, >it's easy to show that tetragonal (square) area >of the hexa-asteron (octahedron) is >in an *irrational* ratio to the sum >of the 8 trigona's areas (what it is, exactly, >is of no importance to me >*at this very moment-being* .-) Don't you find it odd that this ratio of 4:1 holds for the most different cases, the sphre and the tet? But you say it does not apply to other polyhedra? The octa has a surface of 8 and a great polygon of 2, no? The icosa's surface is 20 and its great polygon has an area of 5. Or so my investigation goes. thus quoth: Bucky explains the reason between than I could. I could find some passages if you wanted. Basically, all energy events can be accounted for in terms of angle and frequency; mass times velocity in some direction. No spheres, no circles. Just polyvertexia and polygons. --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:10:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: aluminum-house-on-a-pole Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Dick Fischbeck >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: aluminum-house-on-a-pole >Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:29:41 -0800 Too close. Isn't there a concept between the efficiency apartment buildings and those airplane homes? >Not far off from Bucky's idea of aircraft industry >construction standards in housing. > >http://www.airplanehomes.com/ > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:36:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: points on a plane In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I take it back about 4:1 ration of the tetrahedron, > per its "square" midsection, but > it's still neat that each facet is 1/4 of the total, > just like the GC of the sphere. > your "investigation" is worse than wrong; > you simply don't know how to state the hypothesis, Who says that's the best way to go. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:44:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Play - Dome? Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, See http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-P.htm (scroll down to "Playdomes") ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:28 PM Subject: Play - Dome? > From: "Tom Ligman" > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:35:28 -0500 > > Anyone have decent plans or proposals for a 10-15' > diameter 1/2-5/8 sphere dome suitable for a playhouse? > My son will be 5 at the end of next summer, we finally > have a yard, and I'm always looking for projects. I > figured that either cutting and labelling struts, or > pre-assembling panels, or something would make a great > winter project, as they can be completed in the garage, > potentially even late at night after the family is long > since asleep :) > > I was thinking about something with a single entry door, > approximately 60-75% the size of a normal door, 2-3 > windows, 2-3 skylights (both of these out of Lexan, which > is remarkably inexpensive and easy to work with), and > have even thought about putting it up on stilts, to > accommodate a sandbox beneath it. > > Ooh... And maybe a slide, or a zip line.... ;) > > -Tom > > "Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe > and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on > it and he'll have to touch to be sure. " > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at > http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:31:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Geodesic Domes Comments: To: paulsbyre@freeuk.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, For info about domes see http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Dome-Dt.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:55:22 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Blair Wolfram Subject: Re: aluminum-house-on-a-pole MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does the 'fasten seat belt light ' come on during high winds? Blair Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > just when I'd thought, > I'd seen every thing. of course, > it may not be the most energy-efficient "design" > for a home, around. > > thus quoth: > Why an Aircraft Home? > Below, two cranes lift an airplane home to place it on top of a steel > column. The home will smoothly rotate on it's large bearing. Water, sewer > and electricity will be connected and the airplane home will be free to > weathervane. Both wings will have decks with handrails. You can sit outside > on the decked wing, above the trees and enjoy the breeze. You are safe > from floods. During hurricanes, your home smoothly changes direction, > pointing into the wind. You can safely stay inside during the high winds > and watch TV. The large surface area on the vertical stabilizer (tail) > makes the airplane home a natural weathervane. > > NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! > --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! > http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm > > >Not far off from Bucky's idea of aircraft industry > >construction standards in housing. > > > >http://www.airplanehomes.com/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:06:23 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: origami geodesics Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Looks like this is 60 tets, each sharing a half edge with 3 neighbors. It comes in a left and a right hand variety. Maybe the atoms in C60 do the twist. Or maybe an a combination of in-out and twist. http://www.glyphic.com/misc/bucky.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:19:17 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: origami geodesics Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The phizzs on the right might be C240 or more. Seems like this construction method works for any size. Maybe it a deresonated tensegrity or something. http://www.ganymeta.org/~darren/origami/phizzs.jpg __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:23:36 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: origami geodesics Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.ozonehouse.com/john/origami/index.html good find (and it's the same technique as at http://www.ganymeta.org/~darren/origami/phizzs.jpg). at the bottom, teh link to "the penultimate module" leads to a link to all of the 59 icosahedra; yahoo! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm >The phizzs on the right might be C240 or more. Seems like >this construction method works for any size. Maybe it a >deresonated tensegrity or something. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:25:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed sorry, Dick ... Shine! I meant to say, "It's *not even* wrong." NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >--- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > I take it back about 4:1 ration of the tetrahedron, > > per its "square" midsection, but > > it's still neat that each facet is 1/4 of the total, > > just like the GC of the sphere. > > your "investigation" is worse than wrong; > > you simply don't know how to state the hypothesis, > >Who says that's the best way to go. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:00:06 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: tets in space Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ever hear of the phrase, diminishing returns?... seeing as there may only be a bout 5 guys on this list, and geodesic-l was just shut-down (apparently, at least to non-BU subscribers, and I don't know how many of them were still with it, if ever there were more than a handful) ... it is just so amuzing that "Dick" (and certain company) can't find this stuff in _S_, or damn-near any where else in the bibliographical U. -- isn't that why they have elementary courses? OK, i digress, and it'd actually be a diffiuclt thing to find a simple, constructive course in synthetic geometry, alas. anyway, if you look in _S_ under "volume," then you'll find a number of ways that tetragona can be "stretched" to preserve their volume. if these are *all* of the ways, than your ability to muck-around in "space" will be constrained -- somewhat! (as for your dysclaimer about tiling, "volume" is a nonsequiter, thereat ("points on a plane"), although tiling is also done "in 3D.") it may be taht you simply have to go through a few word-excercies withe "neccesity & sufficiency;" that's a serious matter, IFF you ever want to grok any thing in _S_ (or science, or what ever). for instance, what are the "iff" criteria for flipping a coin?... just play around with the words! Thus quoth: A tets volume is its size. Its size is its volume. We can stretch the skin to accomodate different shapes and still have the same size volume tet, and pack them. Shape is general case, size is special case. Thus quoth: I'm not caring about the area at the moment. The volumes are kept constant. And why not automatically backup your statements when asked to? --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:25:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: BF/Derector Comments: To: miranda maring Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Miranda, Unfortunately the name "Derector" does not appear in my RBF Master = Index. =20 However, regarding the Pine Cone dome, see the following: The Artifacts of R Buckminster Fuller, Volume 4, pages 321-5 (drawings & = pics) Architectural Record (mag), Oct 1957, pages ? http://www.bfi.org/line_view3.htm (pic at BFI site) http://web.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~aly/dome/dome.html (Yoshiaki Arkaki, Japan) http://rmc.library.cornell.edu/Aap-exhibit/card10-1.html (RBF at Cornell = University) Fuller's official archives are now located at Stanford University in = California: http://www.oac.cdlib.org/dynaweb/ead/stanford/mss/m1090/@Generic__BookVie= w;cs=3Ddefault;ts=3Ddefault They have all of Bucky's correspondence and audio/video tapes plus tons = (literally) of other stuff. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: miranda maring=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:37 AM Subject: BF/Derector Dear Joe, I have just visited BF's website and am glad to have your email since = I am looking for something not exposed on the site. I am a student from = Holland and am trying to write my thesis architectural history on a = shipyard in Mamaroneck, NY. They have worked together with some = interesting architects and designers in the past, and I will focus on = these moments in their history. The founder of the company Bob Derector = was a friend or aquientance of "Bucky". I am trying to find out more = about their relationship. So far I have found correspondence between " = those concerned with equipping and testing of my last Pine Cone and = Fly's eye Mass Producable domes". Unfortunately it is only one letter, = dated sept, 29th 1977 and referring to a meeting in Chicago, which I = found on "your" website in the Itinerary of 1977. I know that Derector = was involved in the production of at least one model of the pine cone = dome. I am momentarily staying in the old house of the family and there = are a lot of books on BF. Another connection their might be is = Bridgeport, Conneticut. Derector opended a yard in Bridgeport a few = years ago. I wonder if the particular site has anything to do with the = site where the first Dymaxion cars were constructed ( in cooperation = with a Naval architect of America's Cupd yachts, 40 years later Derector = build the famous Amerca's Cup Stars & Stripes, that got th Cup back to = the US after many years of absence). There is a link between both men's = interest for the water, for innovision and a general concern for the = wellbeing of the earth. With innovision in the context of the yard I = mean the use of Aluminium. Derector developed and experimented as one of = the first yacht builders with this material and achieved a very high = level of craftmanship. Long story...! I am only just beginning this search. I therefore would = be VERY gratefull if you could let me know ever having seen any = correspondance between BF and Bob Derector, of Derector Shipyards, = Mamaroneck, NY. (also Florida and at the time Rhode Island). Could you = tell me if there are any archives with personal correspondence? Also I = would like to listen to the audio tape of September 17th 1977's meeting = between BF, Robert Derector, Stoller, Moore, Kitrick, and Sharkey. Is = this possible, and how would one access the tape? I do hope you will be able to give me some hints. ( Otherwise I might = run into the problem of not having enough material to even start = writing..!) Cioa, thank you very much! Have a lovely weekend, Kind Regards, Miranda Maring ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:03:02 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: BF/Derector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The "Pine Cone Dome" in the picture is not the Pine Cone Dome. Joe S Moore wrote: > Dear Miranda, > > Unfortunately the name "Derector" does not appear in my RBF Master Index. > > However, regarding the Pine Cone dome, see the following: > > The Artifacts of R Buckminster Fuller, Volume 4, pages 321-5 (drawings & pics) > Architectural Record (mag), Oct 1957, pages ? > http://www.bfi.org/line_view3.htm (pic at BFI site) > http://web.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~aly/dome/dome.html (Yoshiaki Arkaki, Japan) > http://rmc.library.cornell.edu/Aap-exhibit/card10-1.html (RBF at Cornell University) > > Fuller's official archives are now located at Stanford University in California: > http://www.oac.cdlib.org/dynaweb/ead/stanford/mss/m1090/@Generic__BookView;cs=default;ts=default > They have all of Bucky's correspondence and audio/video tapes plus tons (literally) of other stuff. > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: miranda maring > To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:37 AM > Subject: BF/Derector > > > Dear Joe, > > I have just visited BF's website and am glad to have your email since I am looking for something not exposed on the site. I am a student from Holland and am trying to write my thesis architectural history on a shipyard in Mamaroneck, NY. They have worked together with some interesting architects and designers in the past, and I will focus on these moments in their history. The founder of the company Bob Derector was a friend or aquientance of "Bucky". I am trying to find out more about their relationship. So far I have found correspondence between " those concerned with equipping and testing of my last Pine Cone and Fly's eye Mass Producable domes". Unfortunately it is only one letter, dated sept, 29th 1977 and referring to a meeting in Chicago, which I found on "your" website in the Itinerary of 1977. I know that Derector was involved in the production of at least one model of the pine cone dome. I am momentarily staying in the old house of the family and there are a lot of books on BF. Another connection their might be is Bridgeport, Conneticut. Derector opended a yard in Bridgeport a few years ago. I wonder if the particular site has anything to do with the site where the first Dymaxion cars were constructed ( in cooperation with a Naval architect of America's Cupd yachts, 40 years later Derector build the famous Amerca's Cup Stars & Stripes, that got th Cup back to the US after many years of absence). There is a link between both men's interest for the water, for innovision and a general concern for the wellbeing of the earth. With innovision in the context of the yard I mean the use of Aluminium. Derector developed and experimented as one of the first yacht builders with this material and achieved a very high level of craftmanship. > > Long story...! I am only just beginning this search. I therefore would be VERY gratefull if you could let me know ever having seen any correspondance between BF and Bob Derector, of Derector Shipyards, Mamaroneck, NY. (also Florida and at the time Rhode Island). Could you tell me if there are any archives with personal correspondence? Also I would like to listen to the audio tape of September 17th 1977's meeting between BF, Robert Derector, Stoller, Moore, Kitrick, and Sharkey. Is this possible, and how would one access the tape? > > I do hope you will be able to give me some hints. ( Otherwise I might run into the problem of not having enough material to even start writing..!) > > Cioa, thank you very much! > > Have a lovely weekend, > > Kind Regards, Miranda Maring > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:23:26 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: BF/Derector Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Joe S Moore >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: BF/Derector >Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:25:26 -0700 Nice try on making this list heterosexual. Quincy, c'mon, isn't it Bukafkian to say something (not Bukaneske, nor hexadecimal code) to the señorita, isn't it Bukafkian that the unit is plural and at least composed by two. (don't tell me that my English is anglophobic) By the way, whom is Miranda marrying? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:44:12 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: tets in space Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed mister Dick, I am just using English; just ask, if there’s a word that you don’t want to look-up, as you serf in yo'bliss. Anyway, it seems unlikely that pictures are going to do it for you, although some o'those toons might; ah, but you'd have to find such an "interactive" explanation of elementary geometry; eh? To wit, your notion of "exactly dividing the 720-degrees amongst the N vertices is wrong, incorrect, unprovable and easily falsifiable, although I won't just try to do it for you – I don't have that much confidence in my ability to teach!… Howeer, what's interesting is that the formula for the angles of a regular polygon is similar to the one that you try to bludgeon us with -- and it's just tickling us on the brink of death by boredom with your bland "wordsoup" -- and, since it really is proved in the same way as the "solid" one, using the angular deficit … maybe, just possibly, you could do it. The proof merely uses, as I recall, the "exterior angles" of the polygon. Don't ask, look it up in some elementary reference, and follow the proof that is written therein. Anyway, "volume" probably doesn't follow, as you were referring to surface angles; sheesh. HOWEVER, look for "volume" in _S_, and you'll find the *other* way to stretch the tet, maintaining a constant volume. Then, tell us what it is. Thank you! Thus quoth: Next, tile a plane with equal area triangles. The vertexes can have identical angular deficits (aka-curvature). If the total anglular deficit is 720, the thing closes. It's volume is 2(n-2), the surface area, times the height (aka-radius). >anyway, if you look in _S_ under "volume," then >you'll find a number of ways that tetragona can be "stretched" >to preserve their volume. if these are *all* of the ways, --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:50:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Blackmoor and cake Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have a recurring nightmare: there we are at a stag party with Blackmoor's Cake, which has that shape that is dyscussed in _S_; out pops Dick and Rybo in G-strings, and they start to leacture us on Synergetics. fortunately, the spiel is cut-off by their wedding ceremony! It's octahedral in the sense that it's hexa-asteral: it hath six vertices!… of course, that doesn't make any sense, at all, with the orbitals, although there are quite a few models that use the basic shapes and *do* do them justice, such as Snelson's "glass sphere." Of course, 92 is the number of protons in U. The thing in _S_ about 1/1836 *was* perfect, if it's true that the ratio really is integral, which it could be. Thus quoth: Carbon is octahedral in what sense? And what about the 92ness of uranium? Thus quoth: Perhaps it was only a "near perfect match." Either way i recall it as being closer than any other geo-numerical connection to physics in Syn 1 & 2 if not anywhere else. --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:58:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Blackmoor and cake Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's common to assume this popular idea (or lie) that Kepler "wasn't even wrong" about the nestings, but it isn't true. he didn't happen to know about any of the other orbital bodies, although he did correctly htpothesize an asteroidal belt -- before Ceres was seen (and the orbit calculated by Gauss, using only three positionings !-) there are two articles in *20the C. Science and Tech.* taht lay this all out in excruciating detail, mostly to do a) with phi (in the first article) and b) with a refinement to kepler's laws (in the second). there's also a great method for grinding lenses -- based upon Kepler's laws! thus quoth: Kepler's work (which included some good analysis of the nature of planetary motion) was silly just because he had some cockamamie ideas about spacing planetary orbits by regular polyhedra. --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 01:00:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "all of this is [very] well known," and most of what you "find" is crap. thus quoth: In addition to tiling a plane with all-different-shaped, equal area triangles, I find it is equally as simple to tile a plane with all- different-shaped, equal perimeter triangles. Now I wonder if space can be filled with all-different-shaped, all equal perimeter tets, that is, tets whose total edges lengths are all equal but whose shapes are all different. Maybe this is already well known. It should be, no? --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:37:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Play - Dome? Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marsha, See http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Domes-C.htm (scroll down to "Climbers"). ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 3:10 AM Subject: re: Play - Dome? > From: Marsha > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:05:15 -0600 > > > From: "Tom Ligman" > > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:35:28 -0500 > > > > Anyone have decent plans or proposals for a 10-15' > > diameter 1/2-5/8 sphere dome suitable for a playhouse? > > Along the same lines, does anyplace still sell those > geodesic jungle gyms I've seen in a few parks and school > playgrounds? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:58:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: elliptical domes Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note: This is a forward from a newsgroup; reply to Jobi. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jobi" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:44 PM Subject: elliptical domes > I am looking for chord factors for elliptical domes. > I have only data from Domebook 2..... > Thank you, Jobi. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:32:53 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: points on a plane In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone yelling crap without ever say why it is crap probably doesn't know. What's the excuse this time? What are you working on mathematically these days? Anything? Maybe you think there are no more discoveries to be made! Or discoveries only come from people you like. Or that have phd's. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > "all of this is [very] well known," > and most of what you "find" is crap. > > thus quoth: > > In addition to tiling a plane with all-different-shaped, > equal area > triangles, I find it is equally as simple to tile a plane > with all- > different-shaped, equal perimeter triangles. > > Now I wonder if space can be filled with > all-different-shaped, all > equal perimeter tets, that is, tets whose total edges > lengths are all > equal but whose shapes are all different. > > Maybe this is already well known. It should be, no? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:33:36 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, you didn't find ****, even. what isyour basis for making such ridiculous claims?... as everyone can see -- is that why no-one else bothers to reply to you? -- you just make these silly, all-encompassing conjectures without any reason, at all. ofcourse, Ithink that anyone can dyscover new things in any field; any one can also make **** "up" with some pretense -- whether they say that they have a doctorate, as you have, or not! the statement about equal-perimeter trigona is, if possible, even more recondite than the one about equal-area trigona -- as a nonsensical *piece de merde*. (not only does "Dick" know how to dish it out, alas .-) thus quoth: What are you working on mathematically these days? Anything? Maybe you think there are no more discoveries to be made! Or discoveries only come from people you like. Or that have phd's. >In addition to tiling a plane with all-different-shaped, >equal area >triangles, I find it is equally as simple to tile a plane >with all- >different-shaped, equal perimeter triangles. --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:49:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: IVM2TV Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed while the result of compressing the packing, afterremovingthe 2spheres, appearstohave a lot of regularity, what is your basis for assuming that the the two spacesshouldclose-up into "isocawhats?..." that seems to be a flying leap into an abyss, a la Wiley Cayote! thus quoth: This pack permits a wee bit more distortion, since two of the pionts/spheres (randomly chosen; I don't know where in the pack they are) have been deleted, hence the compression *should have* forced the 12 around each of the "holes" to reform into regular icosahedra. --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:53:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: IVM2TV Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops;I thought taht it was "before & after"on the right and left. clearly, the bottom stereogram has a lotless regulairty, which is no suprize to anyone. if *you* didn't see the two icsawhats, then you have some explaining to do (or just highlight'em for us folk who have a problemwith "fusion;" thank you !-) thus saith: while the result of compressing the packing, afterremovingthe 2spheres, appearstohave a lot of regularity, what is your basis for assuming that the the two spacesshouldclose-up into "isocawhats?..." that seems to be a flying leap into an abyss, a la Wiley Cayote! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 03:54:49 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed if you give Dick "some *software*," he'll be driving himself irretrievably deeper into the RDU [*]; as it is, he couldn't find his way out of a tetrahedral cardboard box! thus quoth: You need some *software*, Dick.... Java's cross-platform. So's Python (which has a Mac version). Also there are "Windows emulators" for the Mac. WHY the hell aren't you using these by now? * rectal dysplay unit (yours or his ?-) --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:01:34 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dowsing Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that is a very nice collection, from the few that I looked into. I especially liked to look at de Palma's stuff, because although I think that it's easy to dysprove the "over-unity" crap, he seems to have some good considerations (that is, about homopolar generators etc. -- tht is actually where Albert E. messed-up on "sr;" look it "up" on 21st Century !-) I couldn't find the geometrical construction that you mentiones; where is it? thus quoth: >http://www.thwww.com/mrwizard/aspage4.htm NIFty page. Bypassing Kirby's presence thereon (not by name, but by link), I find something of possible interest to rybo, of definite interest to me, of possible interest to Synergetics students "looking for physics." Following link to "fine structure constant" we find a Feynman quote which, when the first 7 words of the quote are put into a quote-marked Google search (exact phrase), turns up more on it, including at least one "polyhedron"-based derivation which I do not understand. (Tom? Kirby? NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:14:30 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: fwd:conedome Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Spencer W Hunter wrote in message news:... > Modifying Dick Fischbeck's method posted here of building a dome from > overlapping cones, I wanted to use hexagonal cones derived from > triangular templates instead of his idea of using identical circular > cones (he calls "vertexons") with a measured angular displacement. I > had left-over templates from several dome models to experiment with; > so I opted for the six used for a 54-triangle foot-diameter hexagonal > 3v parabolic dome, since that would yield an interesting model with > the least number of cones to produce. > > I have now mostly completed the model from 19 cones (there are still > 18 "cone fragments" I need to add to the base layer to ensure triple > overlap), and can report the following observations: > > * Imagining this as a design for an actual roof, one would want to > hide the seam of each cone under the overlap of its neighbor so that > water wouldn't have a chance to leak in. So, it would be best to > build the roof with the seams of all the cones pointing towards the > apex of the dome. The top cone presents a special problem, since it > has a nearly flat vertical seam that leaking water would *love*. It > therefore may be necessary to either double the top cone with the > seams pointing in opposite directions, or to leave it off as part of a > vent to be protected by a removable cover of some kind. > > * In the ideal world of mathematical geometry, these cones should > flatten into hexagonal pyramids as they overlap. In the real world, > something much more interesting happens: while the cones do indeed > flatten at the center of each triangular face, the edges between the > vertices form a fascinating double curvature (and it *is* double > curvature-- see the bottom left two vertices of the tetrahedron > depicted in > http://jfi.uchicago.edu/~tten/rainbow/Crumpling/tetrahedron.jpg for an > obvious example of this), which I believe enhances the strength of the > structure. > > * Even in this simple 3v parabolic model, some of the cones had > angular displacements too small to be cut accurately. It is > inevitable that at higher frequencies these conical elements become > indistinguishable from flat tiles and we loose the advantage and > strength of 3D components. The domes at these frequencies derive > their curvature more from variations in component shape than from > component angular displacement, just as in standard geodesic domes > made from flat triangles. Therefore, the designer of these domes must > consider additional 3D truss work for support, as Fuller himself did > for his Expo '67 dome. > > * Because of the triple overlap, building a dome this way is like > making three for the price in time and materials of one. Still, to > have weatherproofing as an integral part of the design instead of an > ugly ad hoc afterthought (as with all roofing tiles and shingles seen > today) makes this method irresistibly promising and appealing. I > almost can't see making a dome any other way. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:56:22 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: conedome ohmygod; someone stole Dick's notes -- and his crumpled tetrahedron!... note that monsieur Hunter didn't seem to notice, either, that "double curvature" isn't conical per se. > Spencer W Hunter wrote in >message news:... > > Modifying Dick Fischbeck's method posted here of >building a dome from > > overlapping cones, I wanted to use hexagonal cones >derived from > > triangular templates instead of his idea of using >identical circular > > cones (he calls "vertexons") with a measured angular >displacement. I > > had left-over templates from several dome models to >experiment with; > > so I opted for the six used for a 54-triangle >foot-diameter hexagonal > > 3v parabolic dome, since that would yield an >interesting model with > > the least number of cones to produce. > > > > I have now mostly completed the model from 19 cones >(there are still > > 18 "cone fragments" I need to add to the base layer >to ensure triple > > overlap), and can report the following observations: > > > > * Imagining this as a design for an actual roof, one >would want to > > hide the seam of each cone under the overlap of its >neighbor so that > > water wouldn't have a chance to leak in. So, it >would be best to > > build the roof with the seams of all the cones >pointing towards the > > apex of the dome. The top cone presents a special >problem, since it > > has a nearly flat vertical seam that leaking water >would *love*. It > > therefore may be necessary to either double the top >cone with the > > seams pointing in opposite directions, or to leave it >off as part of a > > vent to be protected by a removable cover of some >kind. > > > > * In the ideal world of mathematical geometry, these >cones should > > flatten into hexagonal pyramids as they overlap. In >the real world, > > something much more interesting happens: while the >cones do indeed > > flatten at the center of each triangular face, the >edges between the > > vertices form a fascinating double curvature (and it >*is* double > > curvature-- see the bottom left two vertices of the >tetrahedron > > depicted in > > >http://jfi.uchicago.edu/~tten/rainbow/Crumpling/tetrahedron.jpg >for an > > obvious example of this), which I believe enhances >the strength of the > > structure. > > > > * Even in this simple 3v parabolic model, some of the >cones had > > angular displacements too small to be cut accurately. > It is > > inevitable that at higher frequencies these conical >elements become > > indistinguishable from flat tiles and we loose the >advantage and > > strength of 3D components. The domes at these >frequencies derive > > their curvature more from variations in component >shape than from > > component angular displacement, just as in standard >geodesic domes > > made from flat triangles. Therefore, the designer of >these domes must > > consider additional 3D truss work for support, as >Fuller himself did > > for his Expo '67 dome. > > > > * Because of the triple overlap, building a dome this >way is like > > making three for the price in time and materials of >one. Still, to > > have weatherproofing as an integral part of the >design instead of an > > ugly ad hoc afterthought (as with all roofing tiles >and shingles seen > > today) makes this method irresistibly promising and >appealing. I > > almost can't see making a dome any other way. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:25:51 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dick's conjectures were that tiling could be done with trigona of all-the-same-whatever, but all-different-whatever-else. the game was, replace those two variables, and that's fine, BUT you should try to do some simple drawings to dysprove the simplest cases (say, using 5 trigona or 9 tetrahedra ... what ever, it's not very difficult ... you'll quickly get a feel for **** that is just **** .-) a lot of this *does* boil-down to such things as FLT, which is very negative statement about what things can "add-up." thus quoth: Of course it can. It's "trivial." It's the standard, well-known, six-around-a-vertex regular- (equilateral-) triangles hexagonation of the plane. Equal areas, equal edge lengths, equal perimeters, *equal* everything. What's the big deal about this one? >At the risk of repitition, you say a plane can not be tiled with equal >area triangles. > >You also say a plane can not be tiled with equal perimeter triangles. >Do I understand you? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, and so does Usama's MacJihad! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:42:52 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed just don't use the formulae (FLT e.g.) to go backwards with a vapid "therefore," because this in general cannot be done (a formula is a very simple "decategorization," which already presumes that you know **** from tacos: both can be packaged in similar modules, but you shouldn't draw form the "isomorphism" of the formula, which goes better with hot-sauce). for instance, if you don't know the "trilateral inequality" (or my tetrahedral one e.g.), than you're going to have problems with "perimeters." likewise, the *use* of Heron's formula, and preferably the derivation of it, just so that you know what it really is. the use of the pythagorean theorem (including for nonright trigona) will exclude all sorts of wild & crazy conjectures, with these others. but, you do have to try to use them, as opposed to putting them under your pillow, or dancing around with qabalistic fellow formula-dowsers! THUS SAITH: to dysprove the simplest cases (say, using 5 trigona or 9 tetrahedra ... what ever, it's not very difficult ... you'll quickly get a feel for **** that is just **** .-) a lot of this *does* boil-down to such things as FLT, which is very negative statement about what things can "add-up." --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:19:42 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: IVM2TV Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's very safe to say, at this time, What happens is, Peristalsis Occurs. well, gosh; this is the one case where it's easy to argue, that (given a centrally-s. compression, inwards) the 12 balls will tend to form an icosawhat -- even if in practice they *don'* want to, like if they couldn't "decide" which way to jitterbug, we could just shove them off either clockwise or that otherwise. now, soon as you add the 20-more-balls to the "five-ball pockets," you then had to start making choices about where to place the next 12 balls, in effect choosing the symmetry, which apparently will cause a cascading series of ever-more such choices, since the icosahedron can't be "periodically" used. if you had two balls removed, say symmetrically from the center of the small pack, teh two aperiodicities would seem to collide. so, whereas you might get an icosawhat at the center of a big pack o'balls, you probabaly couldn't get two of'em. this is not to say that there are not dynamic patterns. thus quoth: What do *you* think happens to a sphere-VE if you 'magically' delete the central sphere from it, while keeping an inward-going 'pressure' on the other 12? >while the result of compressing the packing, >after removing the 2 spheres, appears to have a lot >of regularity, what is your basis >for assuming that the the two spaces should close-up >into "isocawhats?..." that seems to be a flying leap >into an abyss, a la Wiley Cayote! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:32:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: the "oops; we're going to war over oil, now" big white lie Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed In outlook and policy, Theodore Roosevelt was the president who elevated the solidarity of the white race, and especially of its alleged "Anglo-Saxon" component, above the ideas of the American Revolution. The argument was that shared "blood," language, culture, and the other bonds among the "English- speaking peoples" were far more important than the American System of Franklin, Washington, Hamilton, Henry Clay, and Lincoln. Roosevelt marked the end of the sharp animosity towards the British crown which had been left in American public life in the wake of British support for the Confederacy during the Civil War. Roosevelt directed a wave of race hatred against Chinese and other yellow- skinned orientals; against Ibero-Americans and other peoples of Mediterranean origin; against Germans; and against black and brown skinned people in general. Teddy Roosevelt was of course a militant imperialist and empire- builder. The "Roosevelt corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine is no corollary, but rather a total reversal of the original anti- colonialist intent of Monroe and his Secretary of State, John Quincy Adams. Teddy Roosevelt's claim to exercise international police powers over debtor nations launched a new imperialism, this time based in the United States. Teddy Roosevelt was a dedicated Malthusian who did everything he could to abort the economic development of the United States west of the Mississippi. This Malthusian environmentalism lives on in the administration of the "environmental president." In order to enforce his alien policies, Teddy Roosevelt was in the vanguard of the creation of a US domestic police state. He got his start by leading police-state attacks on the New York Tammany Democratic machine as New York City Police Commissioner, and later carried his assault to other constituency groupings, the kind Bush reviles today as special interests. Roosevelt founded the centerpiece of the US domestic police state apparatus, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and made Charles Bonaparte, a relation of the French imperial house, the first FBI director. Roosevelt's program of "trust-busting," (which wiped out industrial forces opposed to the Morgan interests) and his conservationism led to the creation of a whole series of regulatory agencies, which are busily strangling US economic activity today. On a deeper level: if London had not been able to count on the United States as a future ally, it is doubtful that the British government would have encouraged Russia and France to go to war with Austria-Hungary and Germany in 1914. Without the short-term certainty of US intervention on the British side, the Bolshevik revolution would have been far less likely. Theodore Roosevelt's role as the first overtly and extravagantly Anglophile US president after the Civil War thus helped to pave the way for some of the greatest disasters of the twentieth century. http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:32:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: IVM2TV Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: IVM2TV >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:19:42 +0000 >What do *you* think happens to a sphere-VE if you 'magically' delete the >central sphere from it, while keeping an inward-going 'pressure' on the >other 12? > Peristalsis Occurs. or Blackholes are not forever I give up _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:18:49 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: conedome In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii OMG- The old mailbox reappears. --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > ohmygod; someone stole Dick's notes -- > and his crumpled tetrahedron!... note that > monsieur Hunter didn't seem to notice, either, > that "double curvature" isn't conical per se. > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:27:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: points on a plane In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > well, you didn't find ****, even. what isyour basis > for making such ridiculous claims?... as everyone can > see > -- is that why no-one else bothers to reply to you? -- > you just make these silly, all-encompassing conjectures > without any reason, at all. > ofcourse, Ithink that anyone can dyscover new things > in any field; any one can also make **** "up" > with some pretense -- whether they say that > they have a doctorate, as you have, or not! Alright. When did I say I had a doctorate? I have a B.A. in geology, UVM '76. And barely. Okay, genius? Average health human being here. That's all your up against. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:25:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: IVM2TV Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This is the sort of thing that is hard to configure, using the inherently chaotic format. There's all sorts of math out there to apply to such problems, though. Thd thing that I was trying to get across -- the seemingly vast chasm of cyber-hoo-ha – to "Dick," is that you the effectiveness of the "tool," such as Heron's formula, is vastly improved by building it, that is proving it, usally by reading a proof, perhaps a few times til the light comes on. Otherwize, it's just a "decategoriized isomorphism," careening-around like a bowling ball in one's headspace; a formula that one stole from the Encyclopedia Brittanica, as They wished one to do. Thus quoth: This sort of thing is inherent (not to say, "endemic" (*g*)) in my work with the sphere-compressed ball-packs; things are always shifting slightly one way or another, trying to come up with the best compromise between tightest packing, spherical forming pressures, and the sphericalizing influential micropresence of those nasty little "holes" where no ball is. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:26:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed To coin a phrase: dropping names is like sphincters, anyone can pinch them off (well, it Depends .-) If one doesn't know the most elementary thing about the relations of the sides of a trigon, then one could easily imagine lots of things that cannot be (that is, say, restricting oneself to "Euclidean" geometry .-) Thus quoth: That's a deal. Agreed, but they all could be different. That's the point. As Bucky pointed out many years ago, we need only deal in whole rational numbers, just like nature does. Quantum. Get it? Euler. Avogadro. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:29:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: IVM2TV Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Here's an exercise: what'd be the best way to remove two balls from a VE-arrayed 12-around-1 ballset, such that the resulting 11-ball conglomerate, with one ball more-or-less at the center, will have the smallest spherical "hull" around it (or, say, around just the 11 center-points) ?? I'd guess that there were two, extremes of which 2 balls to remove, and both of them *seem* to be no-smaller than the icosanuts (sik). Thus quoth: *Immediately* in this rotation, the place where the center ball was becomes too small for that ball you seem to be seeing moving in there, to move in there. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:32:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Wired Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Going back to the bone-headed *Wired* half-page article; forget it. Vernadsky was a real, experimental scientist, who coined the term, "noosphere" (with an umlaut over the second "o" – NEW-oh-sphere). Now, Chardin was a Jesuit freak with a PhD, who was somewhat apostate (or "relieved of his frock," I guess). The reason that I cited the 'WAND' cover- article, was to show their duplicitous use of his "global brain" ideal, in a way that wouldn't have bothered him, at all, as far as I can tell -- not actually having read the guy. Chardin coined the term, used in the *WAND Weview* thing wihtouhg mentioning Vernadsky, "noopolitik." That is, it's just geoplitik with silver cyber-lining. The Wired thing also gives itself away, with its list of the unusual subjects amongst the free-trade (globalization) fundies! Marshall MacL. gives himself away, with his après-Bucky use of "the tetrad," which is about as silly of a thing as I can imagine. " Even Marshall McLuhan," in deed! Thus quoth: >From the '20s to the '50s, Teilhard de Chardin drafted a series of poetic works about evolution that has reemerged as a foundation for new evolutionary theories. In particular, Teilhard and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Vernadsky inspired the renegade Gaia hypothesis (later set forth by James Lovelock and Lynn Margulis): the global ecosystem is a superorganism with a whole much greater A Globe, Clothing Itself with a Brain By Jennifer Cobb Kreisberg He has inspired Al Gore and Mario Cuomo. Cyberbard John Perry Barlow finds him richly prescient. Nobel laureate Christian de Duve claims his vision helps us find meaning in the cosmos. Even Marshall McLuhan cited his "lyrical testimony" when formulating his emerging global-village vision. Whom is this eclectic group celebrating? An obscure Jesuit priest and paleontologist named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, whose quirky philosophy points, oddly, right into cyberspace. … Church nor the scientific academy, however, agreed. Teilhard's premise, that rocks possessed a divine force, was seen as flaky by scientists and outright heretical by the church. Teilhard's writings Thus qooth: There you have it. de Chardin and Vernadsky happily living in the same page. Don't read the name Gore in the article!!! http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.06/teilhard.html http://www.mnhn.fr/teilhard/actualite1.htm --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:23:01 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Wired MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > -- not actually having read the guy. Chardin Quincy, You seem to have a lot to say about someone you haven't read. I suggest you read more before you dismiss all of his ideas. I believe that it is more than a coincidence that he was able to anticipate much of what has happened in the period of nearly 50 years since his death. Peace, Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:06:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Thanksgiving Comments: To: Michael Mitchell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Michael Thank you so much. You too. In the last month I almost got 200 people/day twice! Maybe you can view my stats; try http://vwr1.hitbox.com/HitboxUI?acct=WQ590817CKNF&p=1 ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mitchell" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Press Request: Dome manufacturer for Germany? > Happy thanks giving joe. > (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:02:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Wired Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed as I stated, the unambiguosly pro-globalization freaks who are using Chardin's ouevre, do not seem to be going against him. since you sited the Wired article, the ball's in your court. Thus quoth: You seem to have a lot to say about someone you haven't read. I suggest you read more before you dismiss all of his ideas. I believe that it is more than a coincidence that he was able to anticipate much of what has happened in the period of nearly 50 years since his death. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:05:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Man, does this reek of specialized jargon!… So, what in Hell does it mean? Thus qutoh: This is in essence a repeating problem in such 'randomized' packs, in that it seems to me to arise from the gaps in the 13-ball pack. It repeats also for the next "layer": just as 12-around-1 balls leaves a bit of extra gap, 12 around 1 icosahedra do the same, and 12 around 1 *dodecahedra* also do. That's three levels of spherical-packing, all with the same "problem": 13 balls, 13 icosahedra of balls, 13 dodecahedra of balls. Hypothetically speaking, this problem probably goes on forever, *no* --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:06:08 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: IVM2TV Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This is nonsense. You are using Bucky's knee-jerk definition of *structure qua zee toothpique*, which is good for some thing. As for "nothing very," that's just ridiculous; isn't the whole reason for "reductivism" to learn, what is found amongst those small situations?… And, you might even get some better insight into the problems of computerized simulacra, which you otherwise take with such *grinning* enthusiam. For instance, most of Dick's bizarre conjectures, he could easily dispatch, by just trying a couple … say, like the infamous "4-verton!" Thus qouth: By the same token, a cube held tightly in a matrix of other equi-cubes is structurally sound, but either taking it out and applying some nonorthogonal force-direction to it, or applying the same to the whole cube-stack, produces a surrounding situation in which it ceases to be structural. Thus quoth: That's not as simple a question as you think, and I haven't done all that much 12-packing with my software 'machine'; nothing very informative comes from such miniscule packings. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:06:51 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: IVM2TV Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As octahedra are complimentary to tetrahedra in fillinf space (at any rate), so are half-octahedra or “square pyrmids,” which have a volume of 2 tetrah. of hte same edge-length. _S_ goes on & on about this, one might say, Cogito ergo sum ... ad vomitorium! Anyway, the 5-asteron shape has a special meaning, when all of the (10) interconnecting edges are included: it’s the “4D simplex” of 10 trigonal facets & 5 tetrahedra; of course, they can’t be of the same shape, except in some dynamic sense (not as a static configuration). Thus quoth: situation was the "inherently nucleated vector equilibrium". But the diagram doesn't show the volume being divided up into tetrahedra, it includes square pyramids. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:07:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: IVM2TV Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Well, without squishing the remainder after removing the 2, the extreme cases might be a) two polar-opposite balls and b) two kissing balls. Would either of those change the spherical embracement, at all. I guess not, without squeezing, and that wouldn't work til the central ball "popped" out to the surface (because only 4 contacts constrain a sphere). Thus quoth: I'm still trying to figure out how to tell *which* ones I'm deleting.... >Here's an exercise: >what'd be the best way to remove two balls >from a VE-arrayed 12-around-1 ballset, such that >the resulting 11-ball conglomerate, >with one ball more-or-less at the center, >will have the smallest spherical "hull" around it (or, >say, around just the 11 center-points) ?? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:34:19 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Wired MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Quincy, I'm afraid I don't follow your logic. It seems that you are saying that the pro-globalization freaks are using Chardin, therefore we must throw him out. I wasn't the one who cited the Wired article, but I have no particular problems with its contents. Are you saying that if something appears in Wired magazine that it is by association pro-globalization? About half of what I find in Wired I reject, but overall I find it very useful. A lot of their articles I find useful, even when I disagree with the spin they put on things. All those high-tech ads buy a lot of spin. I'm not even sure what you mean by pro-globalization, though, having read quite a lot of what you've posted to this list and what you have on your Web page, I have an idea of what you probably mean. Most of what passes for pro-globalization in the mainstream I object to, but there are many approaches that I believe are positive. I'm not ready to give up the term to those I find objectionable. Teilhard de Chardin believed that the evolutionary trend was toward a social convergence, but part of that process would involve an intensification of conflict. His world view was optimistic, but not naive. He was a stretcher bearer during WW1 and saw some of the worst trench warfare. He spent many years in China and Africa as an accomplished paleontologist. His vision of globalization I support. Take care, Dave Watkins > as I stated, the unambiguosly pro-globalization freaks > who are using Chardin's ouevre, > do not seem to be going against him. since > you sited the Wired article, > the ball's in your court. > > Thus quoth: > You seem to have a lot to say about someone you haven't read. > > I suggest you read more before you dismiss all of his ideas. I believe that > it is more than a coincidence that he was able to anticipate much of what > has happened in the period of nearly 50 years since his death. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:38:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Wired Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: David Watkins >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Wired >Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:34:19 -0500 Hi I find difficult to understand how is it that to me de Chardin and Fuller are talking almost the same things but it seems very convenient to their heirs not to try to converge. To me it seems very clear that Fuller's ideas are kind of the very point of the arrow Teilhard de Chardin described. Forget noospehere, in his late book "Man's place in nature" what de Chardin describes "centrification" as an increasing gaining of freedom of action, previous to a followoing centre to centre union. Is it so difficult to see that Fuller's enough for everybody is the precondition to the ultimate personal freedom of action?. This concept: the increasing gaining of freedom of action is present in Fuller words. Charles Ives deifinition of the insurance package for a daughter consisted in money enough to give the woman (in the 1920s) the freedom to abandon a troglodite to be husband. Is it not evolutionary? according to the increase of freedom of action/movement? best regards Gerardo >Teilhard de Chardin believed that the evolutionary trend was toward a >social >convergence, but part of that process would involve an intensification of >conflict. His world view was optimistic, but not naive. He was a stretcher >bearer during WW1 and saw some of the worst trench warfare. He spent many >years in China and Africa as an accomplished paleontologist. His vision of >globalization I support. > >Take care, > >Dave Watkins > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:25:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Tecna International Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Model dome-building kit from Tecna International, London, England http://www.tecna.co.uk/kits/kits02.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:27:15 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Wired MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Gerardo, I too find much in common between de Chardin and Fuller and not really anything in one that I would expect the other to object to. One thing that may keep their respective heirs from greater philosophical convergence is de Chardin's pervasive consideration of the Divine. Many of de Chardin's harshest critics were those who denied a spiritual role in the evolutionary process. Fuller, on the other hand, in most of his writings, seems to avoid any focus on the Divine in the world. He said that God didn't need a salesman on earth. One notable exception to this is in his book Intuition. At the end of Intuition he has a chapter on love and two chapters on the Lord's Prayer. >From Intuition: "Before going to sleep, even for short naps, I always re-explore and rethink my way through the Lord's Prayer. And as I thought it through tonight, August thirteenth, 1966, I decided to inscribe it on paper." "Oh god, our father-- our furtherer our evolutionary unfolder who art in heaven-- who art in he-even who is in everyone .... " This "evolutionary unfolder" sounds so like de Chardin. His chapter on love also reminds me more of de Chardin than most of his writings: " .... Ever progressing Toward the externally exact Utter perfection Complete understanding, Absolute wisdom, Unattainable by humans But affirming God Omnipermeative, Omniregerative, All incorruptible An infinitely inclusive Exquisite Love." For me this is similar to de Chardin's views on the role of Love in the evolutionary process. And I couldn't agree more about Fuller's "enough for everybody" and its relation to freedom of action. For many Bucky's geodesics or design science is the main attractor, for me his anti-Malthusian-plentitude-view is the primary interest. I haven't read "Man's Place In Nature" and haven't really thought much about freedom of action as a de Chardin concept, something to watch for in future readings. Take care, Dave Watkins > Hi > > I find difficult to understand how is it that to me de Chardin and Fuller > are talking almost the same things but it seems very convenient to their > heirs not to try to converge. To me it seems very clear that Fuller's ideas > are kind of the very point of the arrow Teilhard de Chardin described. > > Forget noospehere, in his late book "Man's place in nature" what de Chardin > describes "centrification" as an increasing gaining of freedom of action, > previous to a followoing centre to centre union. Is it so difficult to see > that Fuller's enough for everybody is the precondition to the ultimate > personal freedom of action?. This concept: the increasing gaining of > freedom of action is present in Fuller words. > > Charles Ives deifinition of the insurance package for a daughter consisted > in money enough to give the woman (in the 1920s) the freedom to abandon a > troglodite to be husband. Is it not evolutionary? according to the increase > of freedom of action/movement? > > best regards > > Gerardo ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:49:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: rhombic hexahedron Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It was “Dick” who asked the silly question, which was a “fishing expedition” with no actual content. I guess, it was a “cry for help,” not just because of your personal jargon for what are well-known properties ... at least they are, to those who have tri’d to grok _S_. Since “Dick” apparently has not tried to do that, he has to ask a silly question. I’d agree that there are no silly *relavent* questions. Besides, I didn’t mean to imply that I had any *means* to evict you. So, everything that you have dyscoverd re “dyssecting the qyoob,” is also in _S_; just look at the color plates!... For instance, you could find your “Kites,” although probably not the same shape as Bucky’s “Kite.” Note that, although everything is chopped in terms of tetrhedra & octah., the modules are completely congruent to those of the qyoob: the qyoobical matrix embeds, vertex-to-vertex with the IVM (of octah. and tetrah.). Now, because of your jargon, it’s impossible to see how it is that your following statement is *not* nonsensical. (But, "note added in proof," you finally revealed what the conundrum was: the "rh.hexah.," that you'd dissected, wasn't (even the same shape)!!… Also, the immediately-following quote was, I guess, Steve's -- what ever he means !-) Thus quoth: Re: rhombic hexahedron sub-divides into two rhombic hexahedrons ? What regular polys can be comprised using only smaller versions of themselves...? tets requires 4, 1/2 octas require 6, cubes require 8, octas require 6.... Thus quoth: I do not know what was silly about my question event hough I did new the answer since I have the dissection front of me. Brien is rude threatens me to kick me off the list. Is he having a drinking problem? or perhaps something more serious. My crystal ball says to a simple question there is a simple answer, and no questions are ever silly. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:50:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed He could've used "HO_1/2" to *not* make the point, and to preserve the stoichiometry; yeeha. Pi is the loneliest number, although you ally yourselves with the Great Unwashed, when you dump a transcendental number, just because Bucky saith. Thus quoth: No. He just liked the truth. He had no feelings about poor old pi. He could have used H 1/2 O to make the point. Thus quoth: My 1st principle would have to be, systems are the first subdivision of universe. We disagree on this apperently. ah, so; zee patented wordsoup. perhaps, you should also establish a trademark (WerdZoop ™ .-) --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:51:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It may be unfortunate that they've discombobulated the proton, so that its important trifold symmetry is insisted-upon to be its "parts" or quarks or what ever. Of course, Dick's point is that half a cow cannot be reflected in a plane to recombobulate the po'thing!… And, now, *you* engage in wordsoupplay. Thus quoth: not acting as a system, but the usual phrase for this sort of unpredictable-from-parts phenomenology is "emergent properties." "Synergy" isn't specifically *required* to produce them. Thus quoth: whatever-it-is you choose to. If you have all the parts of a proton, do you have a proton? "Maybe, maybe not; it depends on if they're in the right --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:51:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed You really have to put your conjecture into more of a hypothesis. However, your original two are easily refuted (for instance, just try to do it with 4 trigona, either a) with an arbitrary boundary in the plane, or b) as constituting a tetrahedon (which becomes an old problem, the which makes your conjecture dissolve nicely away). Thus quoth: The 2 original questions were these- Can a plane be tiled with equal area, different shaped triangles, and can a plane be tiled with same perimeter, different shaped triangles. I assume yes. My next question is this- Can space be filled with same edge length, different shaped tets? The edge of a regular tet would be 1, ok? Assume volume is variable. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:52:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points on a plane Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed That is a stroke of genius, mister Rossiter, I think. Of course, it's somewhat "degenerate," and not at all (I'm too sure), what "Dick" was trying to configure. Now, please, everyone make him dys/prove it – or have to resort to some other list, to crib it!… Come on, Fischstichk; you can do it! Thus quoth: can be constructed from an arbitrary number of all differently shaped smaller triangles each having that area. As you increase the number of triangles then the containing triangle grows and fills the plane. Here is a possible downside for you. My method for generating the equal-area triangles zig-zags a line between two sides of the containing triangle. This means that in the general case the triangular tiles have two edges which are infintely long and one which is infinitely short. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:54:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Harry Potter's Field Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The lie of Australian independence is for Herbert the largest of all. It fuels his disdain for others and disappoints his vision of the rich potential in Australia’s resources. He says: “I would rather fill my history with great men and women, philosophers, scientists, intellectuals, artists, but I confess my self incapable of so vast a lie.” That, however, is a fib, too, --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:00:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Wired Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that's what I'm saying. you can tell, for instance, from Wired's totally uncritical acceptance of Transparency Intl., wihtout noting that it was set-up *in toto* by World Bank officials, and manned by them, such as Wohlst-something-or-other. no, but I'm not issuing a "therefore, Chardin is an imperialist Wanabi; just that he seems to have worked in their favor, if not that he was consciously doing-so. Sired is from the Whole Earth/Global Business Network folks, meaning Royal Dutch(/British) Shell; of course, all of the oil cos. and the Bush Admin. support the Kyoto Protocol, in absolute terms of the "emmissions-trading scheme," as hoo-ha'd by the Academy Awards: Oscar! thus quoth: It seems that you are saying that the pro-globalization freaks are using Chardin, therefore we must throw him out. I wasn't the one who cited the Wired article, but I have no particular problems with its contents. Are you saying that if something appears in Wired magazine that it is by association pro-globalization? About half of --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:28:17 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: frameless Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Check out this picture of Steve's latest creation. Frameless domes are another issue, one I have some experience in. Working with frameless domes, and domes with stiffeners added after the membrane is assembled, has been a fascinating and rewarding experience for me. http://www.domegroup.org/miller/iPhoto-15.jpg __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com