From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 15 10:40:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i5FEe7a6009170 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:40:07 -0400 Message-Id: <200406151440.i5FEe7a6009170@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 22086 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 14:40:07 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 14:40:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:40:07 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0212" To: Chris Fearnley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Content-Length: 505590 Lines: 12790 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:45:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: dome kits Comments: To: Robin Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin, Tecna's home page is http://www.tecna.co.uk/ . I assume the kits are made out of plastic, but you will have to ask them. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" Newsgroups: alt.bucky-fuller Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 4:20 AM Subject: dome kits > From: "Joe S Moore" > Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:25:35 -0700 > > Model dome-building kit from Tecna International, > London, England > > http://www.tecna.co.uk/kits/kits02.ht > do they have an homepage ? > It is a plastic joint? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:47:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: GEODETICHE Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can someone translate this post? What is Robin saying? ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" Newsgroups: alt.bucky-fuller Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:41 PM Subject: GEODETICHE > Sul numero 16 della rivista L'Architettura Naturale è riportato un > interessante rifugio geodetico > nell'articolo "MODELLI DI GEOMETRIA SINERGETICA " di pag 60. > Esistono altre geodetiche ( rifugi , abitazioni.... ) alla piccola scala > in Italia ? > Se qualcuno ne è a conoscenza potrebbe segnalarcelo? > Grazie > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:59:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Fw: GEODETICHE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robin" >Newsgroups: alt.bucky-fuller >Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:41 PM >Subject: GEODETICHE > In number 16 of the magazine Archittetura Naturale (Natural Architecture)there is an interesting geodesic shelter reviewed in the article "Models of synergetic geometry" p. 60 Is there another geodesic (?) (shelter, housing....) at a small scale in Italy? If someone knows, could he/she tell where? Thanks > > > Sul numero 16 della rivista L'Architettura Naturale è riportato un > > interessante rifugio geodetico > > nell'articolo "MODELLI DI GEOMETRIA SINERGETICA " di pag 60. > > Esistono altre geodetiche ( rifugi , abitazioni.... ) alla piccola >scala > > in Italia ? > > Se qualcuno ne è a conoscenza potrebbe segnalarcelo? > > Grazie > > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:15:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Fw: GEODETICHE Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gerardo, Thanks! Domes in Italy: Rome........NATO College San Vito....NSA Radome Sorico.......NSA Radome port?.........AGPI Petrochemical Tank Cover ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Garcia" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Fw: GEODETICHE > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Robin" > >Newsgroups: alt.bucky-fuller > >Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:41 PM > >Subject: GEODETICHE > > > > In number 16 of the magazine Archittetura Naturale (Natural > Architecture)there is an interesting geodesic shelter reviewed in the > article "Models of synergetic geometry" p. 60 > > Is there another geodesic (?) (shelter, housing....) at a small scale in > Italy? > > If someone knows, could he/she tell where? > > Thanks > > > > > Sul numero 16 della rivista L'Architettura Naturale è riportato un > > > interessante rifugio geodetico > > > nell'articolo "MODELLI DI GEOMETRIA SINERGETICA " di pag 60. > > > Esistono altre geodetiche ( rifugi , abitazioni.... ) alla piccola > >scala > > > in Italia ? > > > Se qualcuno ne è a conoscenza potrebbe segnalarcelo? > > > Grazie > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:57:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [synergeo] Digest Number 934 Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Pi is trying hard to be a hermit on this list, but I don't see that the "chaotic-yet-deterministic" algortihms for determining the decimal (or any-basal) fractions, or the "continued fractions," or what ever representation, are the know-all & be-all & end-all for it. however, one could argue that the use of "pi" as a radian-measure is not so very hot; is it? it's true that I never look at stereograms, because they are totally useless without going cross-eyed, especially whrn they're left-red & right-green, or what ever it is. once again, "Dick" goes way out on broken limb -- it's already laying on the ground, there -- to make fabulous conjhectures that are neither here, there or any where. it may be sinmple to divide a trigon into n equal-area trigona, a) by "zig-zagging" or b) from one vertex, as it seems to be analogously for any tetrahedron (either alternating from 3 edges along a trifold axis, or just from one edge. the question is, a) is the trigon n-vision "constructable" with compasses, and if not, what are the relations (formulae) for the elements of the sub-trigona? thus quoth: PI and other algorithms, able to spit out a chaotic sequence of digits according to a strict rule, are part of the rational thus quoth: I'm tired of trying to draw word-pictures for you. "If you build it, you will see." thus quoth: example/question. An infinite number of tet of different shapes can all have a total edge length of 1. In this approach, total edge length is held constant while shape varies. The regular tet would have every individual edge equal to 1/6th. Its total edge length is 1. There are 3 ways to keep something constant in a tet while changing the shape. Volume, area and total edge length can all be kept constant as shape changes, but not simultaneously. Constant total edge length is what I'm asking about here. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:57:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed in #16 of Natural Arch. reports of an intersting "geodesic refuge," in the article titled "Modelling in Synergetic Geometry" on p.60. can anyone else get the rest of it? thus quoth: >Sul numero 16 della rivista L'Architettura Naturale è riportato un >interessante rifugio geodetico >nell'articolo "MODELLI DI GEOMETRIA SINERGETICA " di pag 60. >Esistono altre geodetiche ( rifugi , abitazioni.... ) alla piccola scala >in Italia ? >Se qualcuno ne è a conoscenza potrebbe segnalarcelo? >Thanks NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:26:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: points in a plane Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed recall that Bucky has a diagram, whereat he divides a tetrahedron into an A-mod, B-mod, C-mod, D-mod and so on (not "the" A-mod and B-mod), beyond all alphebetization. since this can be done in arbitrary slices through any edge (of any tetrahedron), including "Hey, I know; let's divide this silly tetrahedon into, say, N tetrahedra of 1/N of the original tetrahedron's volume," then Herr Doktor-Professor "Dick" and his conjecture are thus proven, by induction. at least, the conjecture is; Dick remains a colossal enigma to those who know how to type at some rate! of course, you have to modify your "picture" of Universe, if you are using that as "space to be subdivided;" for the purposes of this conjecture, space is a Big, Fat Tetra-asteron! thus saith: it may be sinmple to divide a trigon into n equal-area trigona, a) by "zig-zagging" or b) from one vertex, as it seems to be analogously for any tetrahedron (either alternating from 3 edges along a trifold axis, or just from one edge. the question is, a) is the trigon n-vision "constructable" with compasses, and if not, what are the relations (formulae) for the elements of the sub-trigona? --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:33:51 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you just go-ahead and do that, Fischstichk! (most other places, this is known as "Trying to save the appearances!" thus quoth: Want to investigate omnitriangulated polyhedra(aka vertexia), where n is some number of vertexes greater than 3, and the area of its faces are equal, and the angular deficit at each vertex is 720/n? Edge lengths vary. I think radius and volume are easily definable in terms of n. I think its great polygon, aka central plane, is too. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:54:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: Windows software for making domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:43 AM Subject: Windows software for making domes > From: jmr > Date: 2002.12.02.08.41 > > Edward Anderson wrote to me with information about dome > calculation software. I'm passing it along to the rest > of the Group. He also has a question about hubs: > > > > From: "Edward Anderson" > > Organization: Geometric Systems > > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:23:36 -0700 > > > > Hi J. Michael, > > I have a Windows program I call Geodomes that will > > calculate geodesic dome geometry. I am making it available > > for download at: > > http://www.geometricsystems.com/geodomes/geodomes.htm > > It is essentially free but I call it shareware - meaning > > I would appreciate a donation if someone actually uses it to > > build a dome and the software helps. > > Do you know any place to buy hubs? > > Thanks, > > Edward Anderson > > > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at > http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:12:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: curving octet truss Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pics of various Tetra Trusses: http://www.buckminster.info//Ideas/03-TetTrusMixed.htm http://www.buckminster.info//Ideas/03-TetTrusCloseUp.htm http://www.buckminster.info//Ideas/03-TetTensegTrus.htm ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:44 AM Subject: curving octet truss > From: "Dick Fischbeck" > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:02:36 +0000 > > > > That's one interpretation, I guess... but it looks to me like > > the aluminum panels are doing a lot more than being suspended. > > It looks to me like the diamond-shaped panels are holding the > > struts together (or apart) in a classic tensegrity arrangement. > > I see the folds in the aluminum surface acting with the visible > > (that is, exterior) struts to form shallow tetrahedra in what > > is essentially a spaceframe, a curving octet truss. > > Good image making, Rowley! I especially like the phrase, 'shallow > tetrahedra'. I add to that image the idea of overlapping shallow > tetrahedra. They overlap one another. Each triangle is shared by > 3 shallow tets. Yes? See that? Each edges is shared by 6 tets. I > think I counted right. > > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at > http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:30:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Prof Miller Comments: To: "Hunter, Spencer W" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spencer, Have you ever heard of a Dr Alvin E Miller at UA? He and his students = were supposed to have designed and built a 420 sq foot self-contained = geodesic dome cabin sometime in the past that was on a site "in the = desert near here". The only info I can find is a library entry of a = resume listing for him with the dates 1924-1989. Does that mean he's = deceased? This info is from a newspaper article (probably the San = Francisco Chronicle, date unknown) that is probably 20 years old. It = had a windmill, a thermal chimney, solar stills, and "solar energy". =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:33:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Your Website Comments: To: kingdome@mmedia.is MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Einar, Most of the links on your website no longer work! Hope everything is = OK. Ref: http://www.mmedia.is/kingdome/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:43:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Digest Number 934 Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OK, I’ll bite it: What, pritheetell, am I “missing by not doing stereo?” I didn’t really read it enough to know a) what images you’re pairing, although I may have seen some of them, and b) what I could possibly "get" from going-ahead to do it; c) whether there is no eye-crossing depends upon 1) how far the TV is from your eyes and b) the presumed distance of the object (if it has no presumed distance, then it's moot). If you think that you can prove a pile of conjectures with a pile of computer-generated stereograms, not to me! Thus quoth: You didn't partake of my recent (twice, now) post using mirror-stereo? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:44:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Non-unitarily conceptual Universe Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Whoah. If "the graviton" were "below the Planck scale," presumably less than it, than the collider would also have top be!… Good try, though, for sci.physics.humor. Thus quoth: I think Lee Smolin in 3 Roads to Quantum Gravity says that the graviton is below the planck scale and that it would take a particle collider the size of our solar system to produce one graviton. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:45:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: rhombic hexahedron Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sorry, but your use of the old geometry terms is individualistic (a-hem). If I say "le hexahedron es bleu," unless otherwise stated, I mean either a) a regular hexahedron or "qyoob," or b) some convex shape with 6 facets, such as the trigonal bipyrmaid – but then I'd qualify it as such. [NB: the assumption of convexity means that either a) the outside of it could be blue, or b) the other side is; of course, it could be seemingly, uniformly—and-transluscently *bleu* from either – *le ciel es la limite* .-] A rhombus is a "diamond of a suit of cards," a tetragon with its edges of a single length. So, a "rhombic hexahedron" has six rhombical facets [NB: true, the rhombi's perimeters will be the same, but "that is yet to be proven" .-] One case of the rh.hexah. is the one whose rhombi have interior angles of 60 and 120 degrees, each thus being "divisible" into two equigonal trigona – as by chopping two tetrahedra off, to leave one octahedron. Note that, if the hexahedron is made of unit-sticks, joined with some flexible hub-goo, then one can squish it around through to "degenerate" flatness, which shows that they do *not* have the same "cubical" volume, as per your statement. But, we could still get 6 frames of "Dilbert" out of it – and a half-day of overtime !?! On the wayside, constructing volumetrical modules for the icosahedron is a) a mild headbanger and b) almost totally uninteresting to students o'Bucky (and beyond!), in and of itself (see the S-quanta module in _S_) … unless you can find a utilitarian reduction-to-practice, in which case you are obliged to patent, or at least to market, it. In any case, the well-known division of the icosah. is of the surface (or of the sphere) into 120 identical trigona; see, your factor of 60 in there?… It's all in the figurines and the colorplates of _S_, as far as popular science-writing goeth. Thus quoth: rhomb.hex. is made up of equil.triangles and the large red rhomb.hex. is diferent. Rhombic. as I understain is a infinite aray of shapes having one condition, that the perimeters of its faces have to be of same lenght. It's volume regardeles what degree of distirtion we are talking about its relation always be equvalevant to a cube. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:54:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Power vs. Energy Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Full EIR Table of Contents Why Hiroshima Was Bombed: `Utopians' Duped a Nation Learning Standards? Every Graduate Should Know Gauss's Fundamental Theorem Power vs. Energy: The Difference Between Dynamis and Energeia see http://www.larouchepub.com/ NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:47:25 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: rhombic hexahedron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 the Greek problemma that you try to address, the fact taht they chose the regular hexahedron as the prime referent o'mensuration (and, of course, the regular tetragon in the plane, and hte hyperqyoobs in upper space etc.), is also what got Bucky's goat ... or Bucky captured that goat for ritual slaughter. that address is simply located, by dividing the "qyoob" into 3 congruent pieces; sorry, they're not tetrahedra!... as a hint, just find the 3-fold axis o'rotational symmetry. (the "co-inky-dink" that we use the factor of 3 in the formula for the pyramids (incl. the tetrah.) is fairly easy to reconcile. however, you've really got to agree that Bucky was correct about using the tetra-asteron (tetrah.) as the basic unit, since it has so-many cool, elementary properties & uses in mathematics.) sorry to be so repetitious, but you are in danger of criss-crossing the line of "daring to be naieve," into "trying to save the appearances" that you've uncovered something that is brand new ... and possibly of being evicted from this list -- hey, I don't make those decisions, man, but you may've already crossed-over with no return; I just issue terse reports, like: Holy ****, Zoob is hacking at his cubical, again! really, I don't care if you don't care about "Bucky and his dysections," not that they were his to begin with; all of this is strictly 19th CCE stuff, so try to get over it & study some real math -- not _S_, which is a rather terse digest of "findings," larded with a ton o'metaphysical, verbal abuse! --- In synergeo@y..., frank zubek wrote: > > (a-hem). If I say "le hexahedron es bleu," > > unless otherwise stated, I mean either a) > > a regular hexahedron or "qyoob," or b) > > some convex shape with 6 facets, > > such as the trigonal bipyrmaid =96 but > > then I'd qualify it as such. [NB: > > A rhombus is a "diamond of a suit of cards," > > a tetragon with its edges of a single length. So, > > a "rhombic hexahedron" has six rhombical facets [NB: > > true, the rhombi's perimeters will be the same, but > > "that is yet to be proven" .-] > > One case of the rh.hexah. is the one > > whose rhombi have interior angles > > of 60 and 120 degrees, each thus being "divisible" > > into two equigonal trigona =96 as by chopping two > > tetrahedra off, > > to leave one octahedron. > I think you are wrong it always going to be related to > a cube. The base however distorted plus the hight > depending on the degree of distortion is always going > to be related to a cube depending on the base and the > height. All tets. having the same relation.Base times > height divided by three. Base of a tet.times height is > always the same relation as is cube and a tet. If you > divide the cube by three you are left with a tet. > > in and of itself (see the S-quanta module in _S_) =85 > The 60 was just a guess and I think a good one. What > mainly I saying is that no one knows as far what is > possible to construct from these 60 individual units. > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): > > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, > > so does Usama's MacJihad: > > "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." > > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > > ch.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:17:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Tecna International In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit very cool... > From: Joe S Moore > Organization: (Retired) > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:25:35 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Tecna International > > Model dome-building kit from Tecna International, London, England > > http://www.tecna.co.uk/kits/kits02.htm > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:30:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Digest Number 934 Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, taht wasn't so hard (I'd just implausibly thought that the mirror was on the same side; now, I see that the pix are (approx.) mirror-images). now, I don't have to wander around for a mirror, because it's still moot. by neccesity, the stereogram uses images that are in perspective (and the reflections provide multiple ones), so that there is actually nothing new to be added by trying to fool oneself that there are balls, floating a couple o'feet in front of your face. thanks, anyway, Master Pedant! thus quoth: __s__c__r__e__e__n__ |m |i |r |r |o |r Eyes: O O l r Then go get http://tetrahedraverse.com/temp/20icojad.jpg ...and see if it has any value for you. You'll at *least* see how stereo3D is easily possible for the masses, --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:46:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: rhombic hexahedron Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [NB: my posts on Synergeo-l, as opposed geodesic-l, have any "tabs" removed, so that the paragraphs are squeezed, somewhat, together; that wouldn't happen, if I put a blank line between them, as most seem to do.] I was saying "oops" for you, Dood (sorry, but I can't do the "u" with the umlaut, either .-) if you "squish" the hexahedron ("qyoob") into the conformation that is the same convex shape as an octahedron with two hexahedra on opposite facets, then it has a very different volume *from the orignal cube*; it's not integral relation, either. don't confuse the fact that the tetrahedron that's nested *into* the cube has one third of the cube's volume, and also the fact that any pyramid's volume *qua* the qyoob, is one third of its heighth times its base -- the base *qua* the base of the qyoob, as well. thus quotH: scientific consideration. Than you said *ups* when you realized that octahedr. and two reg.tets. are volume of two cubes in such reg.rhom.hex. Than you said that --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:53:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Adrian seems to like to draw you out, Dick, but for every one else, it's just "old ****, slowly losing the last vestiges of moisture" -- which is good, because of less smell! you just have not yet bothered to make any hypothesis, other than flailing your failed "n-verton conjecture." it really isn't much of a conjecture, though, since you never bother to learn, say, Descartes proof about the 720-degree angular deficit, or the Gauss-Bonnet generalization, or what you might have to do to force them to fit -- if at all possible -- to your cone-headed "housing technology." ot would probably benefit the origniator of the cone-thing, if you asked him to justify it; why don't you? Thus quoth: >Want to investigate omnitriangulated polyhedra(aka vertexia), where n is >some number of vertexes greater than 3, and the area of its faces are >equal, and the angular deficit at each vertex is 720/n? Edge lengths vary. >I think radius and volume are easily definable in terms of n. Isn't the radius independent of n? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:00:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed let me just say, Megadittos; you just don't have a clue as to what you're saying, and you don't seem to have any models (that you made), either: where is the ever-so-difficult-to-shingle "4-verton," Herr Dokctor-Professor Fischstichk? til you at least try to grok Descartes theorem -- it's awfully simple, once you see the thread -- then you should just stop floating this crap (as easy as it is to dodge .-) [NB: as for shingling, you can at least get an idea by drawing clockwise and/or ccw arrows on the facets of a tetrahedron, but I won't tell you the "trick" to get them to have all of the same relations to their neighboring facets.] thus quoth: > > Want to investigate omnitriangulated polyhedra(aka vertexia), where n > >is some number of vertexes greater than 3, and the area of its faces > are >equal, and the angular deficit at each vertex is 720/n? Edge > lengths >vary. I think radius and volume are easily definable in terms > of n. > >Isn't the radius independent of n? Radius increases as n increase. So does area and volume. N is the number of vertexes. N starts at 4, the tet. Maybe in your points-on-a-sphere program you keep radius constant and decrease the distance between the vertexes. Do you crowd more and more points onto the same size sphere as n increases? Do you have pictures? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:37:13 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: [Sph] tets in space Comments: To: Anton Sherwood Comments: cc: synergeo , sphere In-Reply-To: <3DEE4105.F2AA41F3@pobox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes. Here's a picture of a model from Adria Rossiter: http://www.terra.es/personal/adrian_r/mescrsvr.html and mine at: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=98 http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=61 and Martin Trump at: http://www.wmeadow.demon.co.uk/poly/ --- Anton Sherwood wrote: > > > > Okay. Next, I want to curve the 2 planes. One > degree is > > > > removed around each vertex. There are 2 polyhedra > that > > > > result, each with 720 vertexes. > > > > > > How do you get 720 rather than, say, 12? > > > > Because the total angular deficit of a polyhedron is > 720 > > degrees. . . . > > Ah. I thought you meant the other kind of degree: > the number of edges that meet at a given vertex. > > You're turning the plane into a collection of cones, > and you'll have to define how they meet. > > -- > Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:13:54 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: tets in space Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed note that this thing is not a complete shperic, which is where the problem comes in; anyway, what were your findings (porblems overcome) in constructing this, if you did? couldn't say it better, below, myself -- although I have said that! >You're turning the plane into a collection of cones, >and you'll have to define how they meet. > >-- >Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/ --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:15:36 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Non-unitarily conceptual Universe Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oh, my G-D; not Cone Therapy !?! thus quoth: I have a treatment plan ready. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:17:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: from the desktop of the OU Math Folder Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Mr Zubek; The Open University is pleased to announce that our matriculation committee had found you to be eligible for a Masters of Arts in Mathemetics, for your patented dissection of the (regular) hexahedron. Since the ceremony is held online, you don't have to come to London to get you certificate. Just send L49.95 to our account, MAM@math.OU.ac.uk, and we'll send you the certificate, and loaner cap, gown and webcam (which can also be purchased for future alumni events!), plus the coveted OU Grad Fuzzee Quanta™ [*], that you may hang in your windscreen. Please note, however, that Her Upness has requested that you cease referring to the (regular) hexahedron as "The Cube," because We have decided to cut that Greek bad-boy terminology out of the curriculum. If you do that, then I'm sure that We will see that your way is clear for becoming a Knight of the Royal Order of the Bath, the Garter or the Jockstrap (your choice). However, We were just tickled-hot-pink by your nickname, "qyoob;" is that original, Baby? * "She doesn't play dice with your degree, at OU!" --Sincerely, Jeeves Heaviside Malthus, Head of the Mathematics Folder (JHM@math.OU.ac.uk) Thus quoth: If I have lets say a square ,circular,triangular base with one common vertex it does matter how tall this tet. is, it's volume always going to be base times height divided by three. The same relation like the cube does have to a reg. tet. with in this reasoning I telling you that all hex.paraleploids, hex.rhomb.does not matter the degree of destortion they relation in volumes is always going to be related to a cubes. There is a reason for this and that is that from platonics the cube is made up from the smallest of perimeter lines. Thats what makes the cube unique in stacking,and therefore for volume calculating. Reg. tet. is made up of the longest lines there are no longer lines inside of a reg. tet. than those you see on the outside. Otherwise all the formulas would be different for each tet. and that is not the case. Octane is the smmalest of the tets. and cone is the largest of shapes with a common vertex. All infinite amount of tets.. in between have the same formula. base times height divided by three. Tets. are fractional shapes just is like triangles are only 1/2 shapes. All triangles are calculated on the base of a square, parallelogram. rectangular, rhombus and it is always the same base time height divided by two. It is this very reasoning allowing me to group all these under one simple formula. I know in few days after you do your resuarche you will say that it has been figured out long time ago, and no doubt you are right but it appears that you just learn something new. I wish I could benefit from your analogy as you benefiting from mine. Beside the red rhom. we are talking about does not have a octa at its core. It is only your thought process and limited imagination leading you to wrong conclusions. http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:22:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I think it's in _S_, so why don't you just look it up, there?... problem is, since Bucky doesn't prove it, you won't get much out of it. it's simple to find a proof, either at a library or on the web. sheesh, it's all of a whole paragraph, as I recall. thus quoth: Which says what in regard to n-omnitriangulated-polyhedra(your asteron)? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:24:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: rhombic hexahedron Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the "S constant" is a real, obfuscatory piece de merde, although it was interesting for Bucky to work it out. it's easy for you to say to use it, but how would you?... like, you'd actually have to read that part of _S_; eh? thus quoth: Use the _S_ constant to convert, if needed. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:27:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed why do you say, This can be done, when you really don't have any idea?... it is much simpler to tile with equi-area trigona, but only "globally," as thus far shown (by me); trying to do it with perimeters is a whole, differnt matter! thus quoth: little in size, of course. In 2 dimensions, a plane can be covered with edge-bonded all-different-shaped triangles where the triangles either have a common area, or a common perimeter. In 3-d, I am playing with --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:38:12 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed if it's any consolation, I had the closest-together eyes in my Science class (8th grading). now, if the two pictures are idnetical, as you say, and not seperated by some angle-of-view (which implies a distance of viewing, which will cause crossed-eyes, if the screen is not at the virtual focal point of the two perspectives), then they aren't stereograms. so, what are they?... you're being a bit flighty, considering that I'd congratulated you on finding such a mehtod, whether I wish to use it or not. as I said, the relflections in the balls offer plenty of redundancy for the perspective, as it is; make them fuzzier, if you don't like that, or opaque, or translusenct, or flowing-LSD-psychosis! the only way that I'm goin to use 3D glasses (or not), is to go to see a horror-flick; but, I never do that. anyway, i think it's silly, to let Dick float off of the handle with his cones; he hasn't any clue, apparently and won't even ask monsieur Petit, the originator of the bad idea. (I won't, of course, either .-) thus quoth: You don't DO something incredibly simple, that I describe for you, but you --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:44:02 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: .007297350 * 5040 = 36.778644 Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed clearly, this has to do with the number of camel-threaded neeedles that can be jammed into the apex of the angle. I mean, what could be finer than that? (of course, the answer depends upon the sharpness of said needles .-) mister "Rybo," is this *really* neccesary?... I mean, on a scal from one to zero, just how important do you consider this "finding" to be, compared to your other such findings? I'll grant you the apparent fact, that you didn't plagiarize it from any one else; of course, that is also one of the forms of flattery, so good luck in finding any takers! thus quoth: Alpha(.0072973506)(fine structure constant) times 5040 equals 36.778644 For graphic reference to following see URL and graphic 455.11 specifically http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s04/p5300.html#455.10 There are 72 face angles on the the duo-tet-cube, polyhedral spheric. 8 corners --of the cube part-- having 6, sixty degree angles each ergo 48 angles totaling 2880 degrees, and, 6 corners --the octahedral pyramid part-- having 4 angles each ergo 24, ninety degree angles totaling 2160 degrees ergo 48 plus 24 equals 72 face angles with a total of 5040 degrees, if, we consider each set of angles to be congruent with a plane around each vertex, which, is may be a mistake of perception of reality regarding curvature from a energy event crosssing/spirit-point. ... If we were to double the 72 and get 144 degrees removed from 5040 we get 4,896 times .007297350 equals 35.7278256, which, is almost 36. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:46:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you didn't address the actual angle of the field that your software uses, re the perspective that it apparently does (does it?). thus quoth: You'd have to be a cyclops, or both eyes overlapped *on* the bridge of your nose, to have open eyes but *no* stereopsis. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:40:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed far out, and finally!... now, not having looked at your construction so closely, you could tell us if a) you think that the cones are still strictly conical (that is, eqautionable in the 2nd-degree; as I've said, it seems absurd to me, for it to be so), and b) how does the shingling go, in any case? as for the matter of "tiling," yes, I did post it to synergeo-l (however, I gots t'say, it's just a "sketch" of a proof, since you still have to be careful about *avoiding* symmetries in the subdivisions. now, it may be *possible* to tile with all-different unit-volume trigona or tetrahedra *as a one-by-one "brickbuilding" thing, but it'd be harder to show. the perimeter thing is obviously more pf a problem, since one has 3 edges that have to sum to the perimeter, not just one volume. yes, it these things could have been proven or dysproven many times; I have just never seen them! thus qutoh: Is this a four verton made of cones (it is made of four cones)? If not can you describe exactly what you want Dick to make. http://www.terra.es/personal/adrian_r/fourcones.jpg thus quoth: >why do you say, This can be done, when >you really don't have any idea?... it is much simpler >to tile with equi-area trigona, but only "globally," >as thus far shown (by me); Did you post that to synergeo? >trying to do it with perimeters is a whole, differnt matter! I would be interested to know if it could be done. It is hard to imagine that someone hasn't proved it one way or another. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:47:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you could learn to type, slower. I didn't think that you'd really do a sterogram without some apparent angle to the virtual object (or what'd be the "point?"). actually, I didn't really grok the terminology of projective geometry, til this came "up:" a "projectivity" is from one line (or plane) to another from one point of perspective; thus, a "perspectivity" is at least 2 projectivities in series, and this clearly relates to "looking" at a picture," or painting one in the first place. thus quotH: My stereo separation and distance-to the ball-pack are done without any reference to angle at all. ("separation": how laterally far apart the 'two cameras' are, which is equivalent in principle to having an adjustable interocular distance between your eyeballs. I can make it like millimeters, which makes tiny objects seem human-normal size, or I can make it lightyears, which would make galaxies seem human-normal size, or anything in between.) --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:24:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, I coudn't find it in the Nov. archive of geodesic-l (http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu), but I did find this jab at Dick, before I wrote it! it *is* easy to n-vide a trigon (or tetrahedron), volumetrically, but I haven't tried to configure the formula for partitioning the edge (opposite to one vertex, if doing it that way, as opposed to "alternating," or alternating between alternating and not laternating .-) that is to say, it probably isn't constructable with compasses, which only give you second-roots. thus saith: Re: points on a plane Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yes, there is. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (not Blair's): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis! http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm thus quoth: >Is there any reason I can't tile a plane with all same >area, all different shape triangles? _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:36:48 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OK, now, one has merely to look at the 4 cones, and see that they're intersecting, in spite of how nice it may look; just extend the cones, beyond -- and ignore the fact that a cone really goes both ways form the apex, anyway! the answer is, as I've maintained from almost the moment that Dick bought- into Petit's dumb misapplication of fluiddynamics, these are not cones *qua* cones. now, you might be able to form some sort of post-stressed (or pre-) techni from them, but that's another story (and another long webdive for Dick ?-) I gues that you also didn't see Dick's bogus formula, that you have to divide 720-degrees by the number of verrtices, and cut that out of the circle, to make your cone; or, what angle did you use? thus quoth: you think that the cones are still strictly conical --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:37:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops: http://www.terra.es/personal/adrian_r/fourcones.jpg OK, now, one has merely to look at the 4 cones, and see that they're intersecting, in spite of how nice it may look; just extend the cones, beyond -- and ignore the fact that a cone really goes both ways form the apex, anyway! the answer is, as I've maintained from almost the moment that Dick bought- into Petit's dumb misapplication of fluiddynamics, these are not cones *qua* cones. now, you might be able to form some sort of post-stressed (or pre-) techni from them, but that's another story (and another long webdive for Dick ?-) I gues that you also didn't see Dick's bogus formula, that you have to divide 720-degrees by the number of verrtices, and cut that out of the circle, to make your cone; or, what angle did you use? thus quoth: you think that the cones are still strictly conical --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:13:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the problemthatyoustatedabout having the same perimeter is hard; since you didn't solve the onewith volumes, I don't see how this statement is other than "pure BSing us, here on these lists! but if yo did, then tellus *how* youdid it. thusquoth: It's a ten minute exercise with a compass, straight edge, divider, and a loop-o-string. Try it. Both are equally easy, unless I screwed up. if the following is true, then where is your stolen cone on your website-- sorry, bad assumption! thus quoth: > http://www.terra.es/personal/adrian_r/fourcones.jpg Adrian- I show the same model to Hutching's a year ago September, by he never liked it. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:02:11 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Gauss is not in the _S_ index and does not show up in _S_ according to Bob Gray's search function. Not what? Why not just support your statement yourself? What's Gauss-Bonnet have to do with an asteron? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I think it's in _S_, so > why don't you just look it up, there?... problem is, > since Bucky doesn't prove it, > you won't get much out of it. it's simple to find a > proof, > either at a library or on the web. sheesh, > it's all of a whole paragraph, as I recall. > > thus quoth: > Which says what in regard to > n-omnitriangulated-polyhedra(your > asteron)? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:05:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What's the big deal about having a remainder? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > why do you say, This can be done, when > you really don't have any idea?... it is much simpler > to tile with equi-area trigona, but only "globally," > as thus far shown (by me); > trying to do it with perimeters is a whole, differnt > matter! > > thus quoth: > little in size, of course. In 2 dimensions, a plane can > be covered with > edge-bonded all-different-shaped triangles where the > triangles either > have a common area, or a common perimeter. In 3-d, I am > playing with __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:16:36 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > OK, now, one has merely to look at the 4 cones, and > see that they're intersecting, in spite of how nice > it may look; just extend the cones, beyond -- and > ignore the fact that a cone really goes both ways > form the apex, anyway! > the answer is, as I've maintained > from almost the moment that Dick bought- > into Petit's dumb misapplication of fluiddynamics, > these are not cones *qua* cones. Quincy, you are sooo.. lame, trying like this to blow off your whole long winded complaint about randomes by saying, "Dick never said the cones were made of flexible non-stretchy sheet material!" I don't believe you are trying to claim you were always talking about non-flexible cones. Whose kidding who? > now, > you might be able to form some sort > of post-stressed (or pre-) techni from them, but > that's another story (and > another long webdive for Dick ?-) > > I gues that you also didn't see Dick's bogus formula, > that you have to divide 720-degrees by the number > of verrtices, and cut that out of the circle, > to make your cone; or, > what angle did you use? > > thus quoth: > you think that the cones are still strictly conical __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:24:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm happy if you're happy, and I'm sure that Dick is as happy as a clam, taht someone did hsi work for him -- at least in the simplest case. it wasn't I, who insisted upon the reality of these cones, and i still don't believe that the conjecture will hold -- especially for "any n-verton" that is not of the special, few symmetries. that is just piffle, taht you can n-vide the angular deficit and "every thing will work-out, just fine" ... the "conjecture" will not be saved by your "saddles" (prezuming this to mean "negative Gaussian curvature") !! I mean, look; the guy won't even look-up Descartes theorem, because Bucky didn't bother to cite it (yo, Dick; Gauss-Bonnet is the more *gnereal* form, that Bucky didn't use but you'd have to; no, I'm not going to look it "up" for you, although I probably will for me, because I want to unforget it ... in any case, have fun .-) thus quoth: I'm happy with that. Once they overlap they are no longer cones. However, this didn't bother me while making the model. I feel happy that in the real world I have, as Dick said, made cone modules and then joined them to make a sealed surface. (I used sticky-tape on the outside but I am sure that I could have glued them on the inside.) It can be done. A maths model which says it can't be done won't be very useful to describe the situation. Yes I did, so I divided 720 degrees by the number of vertices (4) and cut that out of the circle. i.e. the cones were made from semi-circles. Dicks formula worked well enough to build the model. You can't tell very well from my photo but the edges are "saddles" and the faces rise in the middle. It can be bent pretty closely into a regular tetrahedron because the cones are that particular shape. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:26:02 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [NB for synergeo-l: the damn thing always dumps the paragraph tab or spaces, which I think is alright if you want folks *not* to have graphical sigs & so forth to save memory. So, one's s'pozed to conform to "nettyket" and push whitespace with a "carriage return" (or blackspace, as it used to be .-) I suppose that one could "do ASCII graphics" by padding a nonblank char at the front of every line; eh?] On the wayside, when I noted my confusion about projective geometry, it was just that the two words, projectivity & perspectivity, were so- confused. I haven't used it enough to recall much else! The main thing is the invariance of the cross-ratio on a line, that is between any four points on it, and their respective projections/perspectives onto other lines … as I recall. The most recondite algebraical approach to this, I guess, is the "Moebius [Möbius] transform" in the complex plane, a.k.a. "bilinear fractional" ones of the form (ai+b)/(ci-d), or like that. The other thing of interest is that all of the perspectives of the reflections, in the balls, are hyperbolic ones, the "fisheye" view being nothing more than that (and mostly explored before Fresnel ?-)… And, as the plane & sphere are easily transformed into one-another, the M-transforms also apply to the hyperbolic stuff – as well as to the directly spherical stuff. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:50:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Why assume the C60 hex is regular? Is it? I always see triangles. why, indeed?... OK, so -- once, again, folks -- although the "futbol" consists only of regular pentagona and hexagona, being an archimedean or semi-regular shape, the trivalen-vertex model for C-60 doesn't have to be, depending upon how one wishes to dyscriminate between the double- and single-bonds. THERE ARE NO TRIGONA IN THIS MODEL; the *dual* of this model consists of nothing *but* trigona, which are the trivalent replacements for the "0-D" atoms of the "old" model. it is this dualized, trigonated model that I've been trying to get-across for years, now, and which is the main subject of my "Cosmometrical Constance" paper. flyer, and which was also, later, brought to the fore, in a dysquised way, by Sir what's-his-name (that is, at a seminar at UCLA). Bucky "should" have uncovered this, as he was certainly familiar with the hexacontadeltahedron, his "triacon" dome. however, there is nothing wrong with hexagona, as Dick and Bucky always insist; it's just a different way of looking at stuff.... anyway, the angular deficit *does* apply to the 3-way vertices that hte hexagona are "involved" with, just as it also applies to any polygon, by itself (however, it's not usually learnt in terms of "angular deficit; "they" just prove or give the formula for the angles of the vertices of a regula polygon, bt *using* the exterior angles/deficit). so, please, tell us, when you do learn Descartes theorem, and give us an example of its application. please, don't even *mention* the 720-degree thing, til you do so -- or be subject to more, nasty ridicule ("we've only just begun, to live" .-) thus quoth: No, something is wrong here. In a sphere, there would be no regular hexagons. 720degrees/n never equals zero. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:53:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed what's the big deal about *what* remainder? apparently, clues are not enough for you! thus qutoh: What's the big deal about having a remainder? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: >why do you say, This can be done, when >you really don't have any idea?... it is much simpler >to tile with equi-area trigona, but only "globally," >as thus far shown (by me); >trying to do it with perimeters is a whole, differnt >matter! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT." http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:57:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, it seems that "** yours, Honey" has become a proper form of address on the net; yeeha! it was you, who insisted tthat your things were cones; not my fault, is that?... anyway, you "n" conjecture is far from even approached, since you refuse to do any, actual research -- as far as I can tell, you are the one who's just been blowing it out your ass, and into our faces in this little menagerie. thus quoth: non-stretchy sheet material!" I don't believe you are trying to claim you were always talking about non-flexible cones. Whose kidding who? --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:13:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: A picture from your site Comments: To: Megan Chisholm Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Megan, I probably got the pic from the builder's website, Western Wood; see http://www.westernwoodstructures.com/ (click on Timber Domes) If they own the copyright, you might explain what you want to use it = for, and they may give permission. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Megan Chisholm=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:31 PM Subject: A picture from your site Hi, I am a university student, and I am making a web site as part of = one of my classes. There is an image on your web page that I really = like; it has the tacoma done with mount rainer in the background. it = seems to be = http://www.buckminster.info//Pics/Icos-Dome-TacomaDome-Far.gif on your = site. I was wondering if you owned the image if I could use it on one of = my pages, or if you didn't if you knew who did so I could try to get = premission. Thank you very much,=20 Megan Chisholm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:23:12 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I never claimed to be a mathematician OR a doctor, and you won't find the passage where I did, so there. I assume from this post you are dropping your rejection that flexible half-cones can be assembled into a substantially spherical geodesic structure. Whether alpha(angular defect) is 720/n or not, you still doubt, though. Maybe I am a compewter trying to trick you, who knows? I guess I must have something interesting in this construction technique since you have reacted so strongly and so negatively to my statements regarding the asteron over the last year and a half. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > well, it seems that "** yours, Honey" has become > a proper form of address on the net; yeeha! > it was you, who insisted tthat your things were > cones; > not my fault, is that?... anyway, > you "n" conjecture is far from even approached, since > you refuse to do any, actual research -- > as far as I can tell, you are the one > who's just been blowing it out your ass, and > into our faces in this little menagerie. > > thus quoth: > non-stretchy sheet material!" I don't believe you are > trying to claim you were always talking about > non-flexible > cones. Whose kidding who? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:49:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dick, your pants have fallen-down! Adrian, does that turn you, on !?!... why is it that you can't see that "Dick" has no real conjecture, and the formula for "area" that heads this is also BSing, as is the "10' exercise" of contructing "same-perimeter trigona of all differeing shape." I have repeatedly said, "OK, *perhaps* you could bang this cones into nonconical, *stressed* constructions;" so, go-ahead & try to do it, and donb't expect me to prove the amongst the simplest things in geometry, such as Descartes' and Gauss-Bonnet's theorems on angular deficit. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) thus quoth: > > how do you get a 5-verton from 5 cones? > >720/5=144 degrees > >You know that. What's the problem. Make 5 flexible cones with 144 >degrees of defect each. There you go. Stick them together. thus quoth: >We were talking about making roughly spherical sealed shapes from cone >modules. Do you think there is a shape with a particular number of >vertices that can't be made of paper cones following Dick's method >for creating the cone modules? _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:54:36 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed as they say to formalize a touchy dysagreement, What ever, Dood! thus quoth: I guess I must have something interesting in this construction technique since you have reacted so strongly and so negatively to my statements regarding the asteron over the last year and a half. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:54:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed as they say to formalize a touchy dysagreement, What ever, Dood! thus quoth: I guess I must have something interesting in this construction technique since you have reacted so strongly and so negatively to my statements regarding the asteron over the last year and a half. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 05:41:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > Dick, your pants have fallen-down! > Adrian, does that turn you, on !?!... why is it that > you can't see that "Dick" has no real conjecture, and > the formula for "area" that heads this is also BSing, > as is the "10' exercise" of contructing "same-perimeter > trigona > of all differeing shape." A bit homophobic, Brian? Rasist, too, perhaps? Why do you always put my name in quotes? Still think I am a scam? Or a compewter, maybe? Am I a conspiracy? You didn't draw any triangles, I assume. Too busy, I guess. > I have repeatedly said, "OK, *perhaps* > you could bang this cones into nonconical, > *stressed* constructions;" Explain bang. There is no effort at all to this. Are you conceding defeat? What is your name for flexible cone if not cone? And how much stress do you imagine is neccessary to build a .019" aluminum dome? There is almost zero. so, go-ahead & try to do it, > and > donb't expect me to prove the amongst the simplest things > in geometry, such as Descartes' and Gauss-Bonnet's > theorems > on angular deficit. Prove? All you do is shoot and run, shoot and hide, shoot and obfuscate. If you have a mathematical objection, you should make it now. What do Gauss-Bonnet and Descarte say that contradicts me? Be specific. Maybe you are just squeezing off names again. Probably. Put up or shut up, they say. > thus quoth: > > > how do you get a 5-verton from 5 cones? > > > >720/5=144 degrees > > > >You know that. What's the problem. Make 5 flexible cones > with 144 > >degrees of defect each. There you go. Stick them > together. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:27:09 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: fwd:opinion Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A forwarded post from scimath. Pretty well put, I'd say. From: Laserblue99 (laserblue99@aol.com) Subject: Re: Synergetics Newsgroups: sci.math Date: 2002-12-08 01:43:05 PST The full text of Synergetics is available on the web and quotes from Synergetics can hardly do it justice. If you look you will find contributions by A.L. Loeb of Harvard University which follows the orthodox style of mathematics. R.B. Fuller spent a lifetime working with mathematics in business and sailing in days before calculators and used synergetics as his operational mathematics in designing Geodesic domes. He liked to explore mathematics on his own and had his own viewpoint on mathematics. Synergetics is a record of his personal explorations and discoveries and is not meant to be a learned tome in abstract mathematics. For this reason your points A and B are a bit irrelevant. You might find section 250.60 relevant. Synergetics is not a crank scenario. It could be said to be a work of genius because Fuller brings to the subject a different viewpoint. Fuller's independent viewpoints was why he was kept as a technical consultant with Fortune magazine in the 1930's and 1940's. Synergetics is fully compatible with 'regular math' if one agrees to drop some of the 'unrealistic' abstractions in mathematics. There are things in Synergetics that I don't agree with in terms of physics or I think should be labeled as group theory etc. but Fuller's viewpoint does make some things more comprehensible on a level the layman can understand. His explanation of the gyroscope is one example. If there is one point to be made about Synergetics it is that R.B. Fuller would want you to do your own independent exploration. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 01:00:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MISTER rOSSITER COMMA GOOD ******* LUCK WITH YOUR PAL, MISTER DICK STOP On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: >why is it that >you can't see that "Dick" has no real conjecture, and >the formula for "area" that heads this is also BSing, Dick has a conjecture that cone modules can be joined to make roughly spherical shapes. >I have repeatedly said, "OK, *perhaps* >you could bang this cones into nonconical, >*stressed* constructions;" Really? Here is what you actually said - >i still don't believe that the conjecture will hold -- >especially for "any n-verton" that is not >of the special, few symmetries. that is just piffle, I fancy building a larger shape to hang from the ceiling. My guess is that the conjecture will hold so while I was at it I thought I would try one that is "not of the special, few symmetries". Do you think a 31-verton can be built? Does it have the special symmetry you are talking about? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 06:12:49 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To the editor: The City of Santa Monica has kept me off of the ballot for the third time, based on a bad technicality. I was on the ballot for Council in ’98. The next two times, I was not allowed to give my papers of nomination to the City Clerk, because I was late by a few moments, only by a recent and totally unrelated ordinance, and against the clear intent of the State Elections Code. The ordinance was revised, last January, to reflect this, without any mention of Mr. Procrastinator, myself! Now, although I’d have known, those last times, if the Clerk had reviewed my papers, I’ve been disqualified it’s immaterial. Let’s get this out: I’m homeless, and it’s not just-because of a ruse that my landlord did with Legal Aid, which kept me from using them. The point is, I felt there was no reason to change the address, Brian “Quincy” Hutchings Santa Monica Brian, Maybe next time you are homeless, you might want to look into this realy neat-o design I have for ultra-low-cost geodesic shelters! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:48:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Largest Domes on Earth Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Takenaka Corp in Osaka, Japan has put together a very good essay on = "World Domes and History": http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e/dome_e/history/hisindex.html One of the sections has a "Dome Transitions Map" showing the sizes and = types of domes over time: http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e/dome_e/history/tech/table.html (Millennuim Dome =3D 365m or 1,197' diam) Starnet International is building two 710' diam twin domes on the = Japanese island of Kyosho: http://www.starnetint.com/Business/Projects/A2556AB.HTM FYI:......1 meter =3D 3.28' therefore 100m =3D 328' ................200m =3D 656' ................300m =3D 984' =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:01:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: circumferential structural stresses in Fuller domes Comments: To: "Narasimham G.L." Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Narasimham, Here's a bunch of tensegrity refs that I have collected; maybe one of them will help answer your question: http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Tem-Tetq.htm (scroll down to "Tensegrity") Some of the books referred to are now online; see http://209.196.135.250/ (scroll down to "Books Online") I do know that Fuller analyzed tensegrity domes as if they were balloons. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Narasimham G.L." Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 7:40 AM Subject: circumferential structural stresses in Fuller domes > Bucky pooh poohed the idea that hoop or girth stress would make a > hemispherical shell loaded by its own weight burst at the seams as > design condition. > > His stand is against the standard " membrane " stress being > excessively tensile at the equator or maximum diameter feared to cause > dome failure. > > How has this been since resolved? explained ? how exactly does > Tensigrity work in a way contrary to what mechanics of materials > people understand? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:38:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: meds Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed kewl;yougivemealist (sorry about he space-bar on this shitty pubterm) ofyour meds,and I'llgive you the pager for my team of specialists--askthem! anyway, I surelyamglad that *someone* watches Ch.16 (live orrecorded) CityCouncilmeetings (in casethat anyone didn't get what Dick was on about). anymorecutesy ad-hominemattacks? "nee Brian Hutchings"-- tee-hee! NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > > Quincy- What is your disability and what meds are you > > supposed to be taking. You can tell me. I work in the > > industry. > > > > Make some friends. It'd be good for you. Not me, of > > course. > > > > The meeting was enlivened when seven officers escorted > > speaker Quincy (nee Brian Hutchings) was removed from > > Council > > chambers after refusing to acknowledge Mayor Feinstein's > > requests to keep his remarks to the subject, in this > > case, > > the budget. > > Seven officers escorted Quincy downstairs with Chief > > James > > T. Butts in the rear admonishing him that if he returned > > to > > council > > chambers that night, he'd be arrested. NB: I did comeback, andI was not arrested. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:57:42 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: first data... Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dude, it can also be phrased as piDDD/6, where D is the diameter o'the sphere. area=piDD; circumfernce=piD thus quoth: The volume of a sphere is 4/3*PI*r³. r is 1 so the volume should --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:12:31 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: "Doctor Dick" and his manifold problem(s) Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, thanks for typing-up my letter; as it appeared in 3 local papers, which one did you get itfrom? asfor your "really neat-o design," let's see if it even exists,firstly-- mathematically, or if you ever actually make a constructive model, by your self -- or with help fromyour meds/friends? thus quoth: To the editor: The City of Santa Monica has kept me off of the ballot for the third time, based on a bad technicality. I was on the ballot for Council in ’98. The next two times, I was not allowed to give my papers of nomination to the City Clerk, because I was late by a few moments, only by a recent and totally unrelated ordinance, and against the clear intent of the State Elections Code. The ordinance was revised, last January, to reflect this, without any mention of Mr. Procrastinator, myself! Now, although I’d have known, those last times, if the Clerk had reviewed my papers, I’ve been disqualified it’s immaterial. Let’s get this out: I’m homeless, and it’s not just-because of a ruse that my landlord did with Legal Aid, which kept me from using them. The point is, I felt there was no reason to change the address, Brian “Quincy” Hutchings Santa Monica Brian, Maybe next time you are homeless, you might want to look into this realy neat-o design I have for ultra-low-cost geodesic shelters! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:19:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Herr Docktor-professorDick; that is *not* what Bucky meant by his neologism of "-vertexion." you really had ought to know-better, by this time. these are just differnt *ways* of looking at the very same shapes -- a good idea, that Bucky didn't have the time to work-out. thus, "dodecdavertexion" is another label for the icosahedron; there's nothing more to it. sheesh, what an oxy-maroon! thus quoth: frequency, surface area and volume are defined. For example, area is simply 2(n-2). This is what I think Bucky meant by vertexion. And that by considering a system as a collection of vertex elements(tets) rather than a collection of faces or edges, a generalized polyhedron results. This n-polyhedron/vertexion might be a --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:20:16 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Herr Docktor-professorDick; that is *not* what Bucky meant by his neologism of "-vertexion." you really had ought to know-better, by this time. these are just differnt *ways* of looking at the very same shapes -- a good idea, that Bucky didn't have the time to work-out. thus, "dodecdavertexion" is another label for the icosahedron; there's nothing more to it. sheesh, what an oxy-maroon! thus quoth: frequency, surface area and volume are defined. For example, area is simply 2(n-2). This is what I think Bucky meant by vertexion. And that by considering a system as a collection of vertex elements(tets) rather than a collection of faces or edges, a generalized polyhedron results. This n-polyhedron/vertexion might be a --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:42:31 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, I didn't say that you *are* a 'bot; just that you behave as one, regarding geometry, in which you refuse to do the least bit of research; therefore, perhaps you have a mental block against it, is all that I can configure -- different strokes on different folks; I don't like medicine (field of: got any kewl prescriptions, Doc Dick ?-) as for drawing trigona, I'm sure that I've drawn hundreds-more than you ever will, but you can still show that that ain't so; so?... at least, you learnt to spell, obfuscate! please, don't ask me to "tell you" what Descartes and Gauss-Bonnet "say," since it wouldn't seem to do any good; you *can* do those little proofs, if you set you mind to it. well, you may need some good meds to wash'em down!... (also, of course, I'd have to look them up, myself, as simple as they are, again. however, the proof of Descartes theorem is quite analogous to the one for polygons, although, as I stated, before -- and no-one said nothing about it, no-how -- it's generally not stated in terms of "angular deficit," but simply per the "exterior angles," which amounts to the very same thing. JUST HAVE FUN WITH IT.) oh, and while you're at it, maybe, you could also make a hypothesis, as to just hwat in Hell the formula in the header is suppozed to mean. as John Baez et al say, "Recategorize that bad baby, man!" thus quoth: Explain bang. There is no effort at all to this. Are you conceding defeat? What is your name for flexible cone if not cone? And how much stress do you imagine is neccessary to build a .019" aluminum dome? There is almost zero. hey -- maybe you can get mister Rossiter to do it for you; eh?... I'll bet that he can also draw your trigona -- you may have gotten it made, dood! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:54:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: a-hem Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, I have to say, some of the pictures that were in "GeoJourney" were interesting, as I seem to have seen them some where, before. Doc Dick !?! http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:22:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: circumferential structural stresses in Fuller domes Comments: To: "Narasimham G.L." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Narasimham, Also, I know from actual experimentation that a tensegrity dome contracts symmetrically toward the center as stress is applied inwardly (or it expands symmetrically as stress is applied outwardly). See http://www.grunch.net/synergetics/rh_gall.html#jbmov ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Narasimham G.L." To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:12 AM Subject: Re: circumferential structural stresses in Fuller domes > Thanks. > > I do know that Fuller analyzed tensegrity domes as if they were balloons. > > is quite unacceptable in structural engineering ; however it may be so viewed : > when self load is resolved perpendicular to and along shell, the latter is negligible compared to former which causes bending and then midplane strtching (balloon) > > narasimham > (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:20:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > well, I didn't say that you *are* a 'bot; > just that you behave as one, regarding geometry, > in which you refuse to do the least bit of research; > therefore, perhaps you have a mental block against it, > is all that I can configure -- different strokes > on different folks; I don't like medicine (field of: > got any kewl prescriptions, Doc Dick ?-) > as for drawing trigona, > I'm sure that I've drawn hundreds-more than you ever > will, > but you can still show that that ain't so; so?... at > least, > you learnt to spell, obfuscate! > please, don't ask me to "tell you" what Descartes and > Gauss-Bonnet "say," I know what THEY say. I just don't know why you keep bringing it up, and YOU won't say. That is, in regard to the conedome. > since it wouldn't seem to do any > good; > you *can* do those little proofs, if > you set you mind to it. well, > you may need some good meds to wash'em down!... (also, > of course, I'd have to look them up, myself, as simple > as they are, again. however, > the proof of Descartes theorem is quite analogous > to the one for polygons, although, as I stated, before > -- and no-one said nothing about it, no-how -- > it's generally not stated in terms of "angular deficit," > but > simply per the "exterior angles," which amounts > to the very same thing. JUST HAVE FUN WITH IT.) > > oh, and while you're at it, > maybe, you could also make a hypothesis, > as to just hwat in Hell the formula in the header is > suppozed > to mean. The area of an n-verton, aka-asteron, aka-vertexion is: Area=2(n-2) Nothing hard here. Where did I lose you? > as John Baez et al say, > "Recategorize that bad baby, man!" > > thus quoth: > Explain bang. There is no effort at all to this. Are you > conceding defeat? What is your name for flexible cone if > not cone? And how much stress do you imagine is > neccessary > to build a .019" aluminum dome? There is almost zero. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:27:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > Herr Docktor-professorDick; > that is *not* what Bucky meant by his neologism > of "-vertexion." you really had ought to know-better, > by this time. these are just differnt *ways* > of looking at the very same shapes Wrong. There is only one way to look at an omnitriagulated polyhedron, at least that I know of. It has n vertexes,it has 2(n-2) triangular faces, and it has 3(n-2) edges. Its dual, as you like to say, is not structural, hence does not exist in nature, just on paper. I can't use ity. Maybe you can, we'll see. Your turn, Newton. > -- a good idea, > that Bucky didn't have the time to work-out. > thus, "dodecdavertexion" is another label > for the icosahedron; there's nothing more to it. > > sheesh, what an oxy-maroon! > > thus quoth: > frequency, surface area and volume are defined. For > example, area is > simply 2(n-2). This is what I think Bucky meant by > vertexion. > > And that by considering a system as a collection of > vertex > elements(tets) rather than a collection of faces or > edges, a > generalized polyhedron results. This > n-polyhedron/vertexion might be a __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:34:16 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: fwd:geodesic domes Comments: To: synergeo Comments: cc: sphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Easy dome, aka- vertexion. Fun for all. wrote: >Spencer- I am now modeling the conedome, aka. randome, structures in >a sort of regular way. Before I assembled them in a ball park/eyeball >manner because I did not see another approach. >It seem like one of two parameters can be kept constant during >construction. By locating the vertex of a cone in relationship to the >previous cone with a precise measurement, all triangular facets can >be either equal areas, or equal perimeters. This is an excercise in >triangulating a sphere using geodesic edges. I thought you might be >interested. >Spencer W Hunter wrote in message >news:. .. >>Modifying Dick Fischbeck's method posted here of building a dome >>from overlapping cones, I wanted to use hexagonal cones derived from >>triangular templates instead of his idea of using identical circular >>cones (he calls "vertexons"(editor's comment-this is Spencer's word)) with a measured angular displacement. >>I had left-over templates from several dome models to experiment >>with; so I opted for the six used for a 54-triangle foot-diameter >>hexagonal 3v parabolic dome, since that would yield an interesting >>model with the least number of cones to produce. >>I have now mostly completed the model from 19 cones (there are still >>18 "cone fragments" I need to add to the base layer to ensure triple >>overlap), and can report the following observations: [etc.] I have since completed the model, and can report additional observations: * The base or perimeter layer, despite sharing the advantage of triple overlap and lots of hardened white glue, seems a little flimsier than the other layers made from overlapping full cones; so surely the geometry of cones is playing a significant role in the strength of the structure. It is by far the toughest model I've made-- I suspect the entire dome would collapse before any part of it would buckle or "pop in." * The model is aerodynamically interesting. It makes a wonderful "frisbee" to throw, perhaps due to the Bernoulli effect of air over the gently-sloping parabolic surface, or maybe because of the points on the hexagon that act like rotor blades. Those same points, though, make it difficult-- and painful!-- to catch, and there are already several "dings" on the model. The lesson here (other than my intrinsic strangeness) is that if this design is used as a roof, it had better be tied down securely lest a strong gale blows it into the nearest adjoining county. I hope others will experiment with this method, and I think you will be delighted with the results of precise measurement, which is also assured by using triangular templates to design the pentagonal and hexagonal templates used for the dome. In my previous message, I said that "because of the triple overlap, building a dome this way is like making three for the price in time and materials of one." What was meant, of course, is that it was like making one for the price of three. Nonetheless, this supposed disadvantage (which is easily compensated for) is offset by the intrinsic weatherproofing of the design. -- Spencer Hunter, Tucson, AZ gopher://www.u.arizona.edu:80/hGET%20/%7Eshunter __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:41:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: "Doctor Dick" and his manifold problem(s) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > well, thanks for typing-up my letter; > as it appeared in 3 local papers, > which one did you get itfrom? Cut and paste, its on the net. You're a geometry tutor? How much do you charge? > asfor your "really neat-o design," > let's see if it even exists,firstly-- > mathematically, or if you ever actually make a > constructive model, > by your self -- or with help fromyour meds/friends? You've seen the pictures of the metal dome and the paper dome for a long time now. What do you want? A witness? Try it. Don't trust me. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:20:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Big F, little f Comments: To: synergeo Comments: cc: sphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii First, I need a name for a convex omnitriangulated polyhedron. I'll use Bucky's word, vertexion, until something better comes along. Any votes for asteron? Big F can stand for the frequency of a vertexion, the omnitriangulated polyhedron. Little f can stand for the frequency of the vertexion's great polygon, the vertexion's maximum plane. A great polygon, formerly known as a great circle, has an area equal to one forth the surface area of the vertexion. This is a jump, I suppose, but that's a different thread. If the area of a regular vertexion, one whose faces are all the same area but can have different shapes, is A=2(n-2), then the area of it's great polygon is a=(n-2)/2. The area of an regular polygon is a=6f^2. The area of a regular polygon is also its perimeter times its frequency. For example, a hexagons area 6x1. A 2 frequency hexagon's area is 12x2. So, what is the frequency of a polygon whose area is (n-2)/2? Area equals area, so, 6f^2=(n-2)/2 Solve for f, f=sqrt[(n-2)/12] __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:20:09 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: 1/4 triangle Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is a simple construction method to divide a triangle into 4 equal areas. This is the same kind of construction technique I am using to space vertexes to get equal area triangles. http://www15.addr.com/~dscher/4equaltris.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 03:43:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Big F, little f Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed now, I wasn't the first to use the term, -deltahedron; just put the (even) number of trigona in front, using the usual Greek (or a Hindu number .-) of course, I use tetra-gamma-asteron for the dual of the tetradeltahedron -- OK, so there *are* no-other 4-faceted or 4-apiced shapes -- which also encodes the shape of the (dual) vertes, being 3-way. you are completely wrong about the duals not being structural, *unless* you insist that you are doing a "Blind-Bucky Toothpick Conglome;" in that case, just fine. most of the other stuff is just words, since you don't seem to have thought any of it out ... but I'll give an example in a following post; a challenge, if you will? (now, your nattering "challenges" are impossible to follow, for the fore-going reason: no-one has a clue, as to hwat you want them to do, because you just haven't done any of it -- as far as can be seen. now, it's certainly true that a cross-section of any centrally-s. polyasteron will *approach* the area of a quarter of the whole, but you'd have to *show* that there is *ever* a case, where it equals that (for instance, the tetrahedron's tetragonal (square) cross-section is not comeasurable with the trigonal facets, so it can't be a rational ratio of them). thus quoth: First, I need a name for a convex omnitriangulated polyhedron. I'll use Bucky's word, vertexion, until something better comes along. Any votes for asteron? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 03:50:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Big F, little f Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that is to say, the following are obviousLY wild guesses; where is any reason for them?... or, give a reference from whence you got them! IF YOU REALLY GIVE ATTENTION TO THE THREAD, YOU'LL SEE THAT THE ONLY ONE THAT YOU'RE SHINING-ON IS YOU, YOURSELF AND "DOCTOR DICK." thus qouth: then the area of it's great polygon is a=(n-2)/2. The area of an regular polygon is a=6f^2. The area of a regular polygon is also its perimeter times its frequency. For example, a hexagons area 6x1. A 2 frequency hexagon's area is 12x2. So, what is the frequency of a polygon whose area is (n-2)/2? Area equals area, so, 6f^2=(n-2)/2 Solve for f, f=sqrt[(n-2)/12] don't "solve for f" til you know what the *units* are (that is, a lot of the bad-old "decategorization" can be taken care-of, by consistantly using the units of measure in the formulae; that includes trigonal-areas per "square" ones e.g.) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 25 -- THYROID STORM http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 03:55:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed my. if you knew what Gauss-Bonnet and Descartes "said," then why haven't you used them, at all. as they say, thou whinest a lot! anyway, you haven't even bothered to say what the formula, in the header, means, or how it could be true; I don't think that it is, but, then, I don't care to work on such hare-brained say-sos, either. *or* "doing Doc Dick's homework;" not a paying proposition for a humble tutor of geometry; is it? THUS QUTOH: I know what THEY say. I just don't know why you keep bringing it up, and YOU won't say. That is, in regard to the conedome. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 03:59:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Here is a simple construction method to divide a triangle. Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you say that you use a "similar" method, but what in Hell is it?... I have ne'er seen any indication that you have so-much as tried to read these things, and I have to wonder if you can maintain any concentration on any mathematical material, whatsoever. I'll see if I can grok it, myself, later. that's the challenge, doc Dick! thus quoth: Here is a simple construction method to divide a triangle into 4 equal areas. This is the same kind of construction technique I am using to space vertexes to get equal area triangles. http://www15.addr.com/~dscher/4equaltris.html --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not just his ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 04:20:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 120-degree triangle triples. Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OK, I'll bite it: how can a "3:5:7" trigon satisfy teh trigonal inequality (a.k.a. Schwartz's triangle ineq.) ?? note that I didn't really try to read the theorem, and I coulsn't really see whre it was supposed to end! oops; I take it ack about the inequality. so, anyway, is this under the category of "integer-sided trigona?" if it is, that was solved quite some time ago, and you *do* have to use the PT to do it. oops, again; I just scanned it, and I realized that I *have* seen this, before; in the "kids magazine," *Quantum*, they are referred to as "pre- and post-pythagorean" trigona, meaning for the 60-degree-cornered and 120-degree-cornered ones, respectively. I replied to an unsolved puzzle, concerning a generalization of it that some doods@IBM were trying, and the author gave me a tiny "thank you," the first of several others ... with his notice that he was quitting the column & taking his booty, away! "of course," the areas are all integral in terms of equilateral trigona (1:1:1 .-) thus quoth: far. It is anticipated that Prodanean Trigon 3:5:7 and a host of three more whole-numbered (plus a vast intermediate series) can advance a mathematical revolution. The theorem: For n = -1 to +3, sides a = 3, b = 3 + n, and c = 3 + 2n define a trigon progression with angle C = 0, 60, 90, 120, & 180 degrees respectively. Expansion of sum of squared sides to -2ab for C = 0, -ab for C = 60, +ab for C = 120, +2ab for C = 180 and prefixes for ab ranging between 0 & 2 yield exact values for all trigonometric functions avoiding dependence on pi and power series." Prodanean Progression for 60 degree triangles would be 3:3:3, 3:8:7, 5:8:7, 5:21:19, 7:15:13, 7:40:37, 9:24:21, 9:65:61, 11,:35:31, 11:96:91, etc. while for 120 degree triangles would be 3:5:7, 5:16:19, 7:8:13, 7:33:37, 9:15:21, 9:56:61, 11:24:31, 11:85:91, etc. http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 04:23:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Disbelievers Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that's very nice. I don't know why you think, there were *any* "dysbelievers" in that, in itself. howevver, "let's just ignore doc Dick's prattle about tensegrity," even if it's true, as far as it goeth! thus qtuoh: The *worst* that happened to the pack during all the dropping was that a vertex-ball would occasionally (roughly 15% of the time) be found to have spread its five neighbors apart enough to let it sit down a bit deeper. Most of the time it would pop right back out. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 04:36:18 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 120-degree triangle triples. Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the formula for a general trigon, analogous to PT, is: cc = aa + bb - 2ab(cos(C)). just plug-in 90-degrees for C, to see wht happens. then, plug-in 60 and 120 for the only other integral solutions (as has been proven, some where .-) ah, but Whitmer has made an excellent reduction-to-practice; has he not? doc Dick: go for it! thus qtuoh: I wrote a web page demonstrating how to approximate arbitrary side angles with these Pythagorean triples, which enables rational rotation, i.e. rotation where exact rationally-valued vectors that are input come out also rationally-valued: http://homework.jhax.net/math/Pythagorean_Triples.jsp There is an equivalent situation if you are trying to make 120 degree angles, for which you might use a 3-5-7 triangle (install hinges and it flops between 3-5-7 and 5-5-5 for an equilateral triangle). --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:09:49 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: equal different shaped tets Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is a forward from scimath. Why not consider 3d space an aggregate of equal irregular tets? In what sense can tets be equal when they are different shapes? They can be equal in one of the 3 measures of a tet: linear, areal and volumetric. What search term should I use to find info on this? I mean, outside of Fuller. Dick "Buffy The Cache Coder" > Hello Readers. > > I have a silly question which I've been meaning to ask for sometime: > How is it possible to discover *emerging* properties in higher dimensional space if no analogy exists in 1,2,or 3d space? Does each dimensional space have their own unique set of properties startingly different from another? I know that this question is vague that's why I haven't ever asked it. :) Maybe I can give an example. I can find the area of a trapezoid by breaking the trapezoid into regions I can quickly calculate like rectangles and triangles. I heard there is no such analogy in 3d space. To get the volume of a polyhedron, what's wrong with breaking it up into pyramids, each with volume = (base area) * height / 3 ? > So this is something that separates 2d space from 3d space. Are there such examples in higher dimensional space? The answer, like the question, has to be pretty vague. Some simple linear and affine properties are essentially the same in m-space and n-space for any two finite m and n. But in topological properties, 2-space and 3-space are drastically different; curves can be knotted in 3-space, for example. If we look into discrete subgroups of n-space, e.g. in a problem about sphere-packing or diophantine approximation, then again the dimension n can make a qualitative difference. Higher dimensions are not always more complicated than lower dimensions, depending on the details of the problem. Larry __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:40:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: dimension Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have not seen this in a while. It is good review. I want an equation that related n to frequency. If n is size, then n must be directly related to frequency. In Adrian's model, as n increase, size decreases. Edges get shorter. In a geodesic domes, as n increases, size increases. The radius gets larger. 960.03 Number powers refer to the numbers of times any given number is multiplied by itself. While empty set numbers may be theorized as multipliable by themselves, so long as there is time to do so, all experimental demonstrability of science is inherently time limited. Time is size and size is time. Time is the only dimension. In synergetics time-size is expressible as frequency. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:28:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 120-degree triangle triples. Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I don't quite get what you're trying to say, re "normalization," but we on these lists only tend to do the most basic of math. If I get *you* correctly, you've used trigonated paper to examine this stuff, and it does help to see the areal properties – the which, in general, are *not* found with tetragonal (square) grids (and likewise with a cubical net vis-a-vu the "IVM" .-) No, it doesn't work for 72-degrees, because that'd seem to require 5-fold symmetrical graph-paper!... However, I don't have the proof at hand, nor do I recall where I read it. Serpinski's book on the PT is great, though. Thus quoth: >cc = aa + bb - 2ab(cos(C)). > >just plug-in 90-degrees for C, to see wht happens. then, >plug-in 60 and 120 for the only other integral solutions Assuming I do not misunderstand what you are saying, it is obvious that 60 and 120 are just different representations of the same triplets -- a different normalization choice -- in the 120 case you adjust by an integer so that the middle value becomes 0, and in the 60 case, you adjust by an integer so that the low value becomes 0 (referring to the a,b,c of a triangular coordinate system). I just chose 120 rather arbitrarily. I will find it astonishing, once I have studied the formula, if there are as you would seem to indicate no other angles for which triples can be produced in some way. I would have expected 72, for example, but I hadn't gotten around to trying it yet. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:31:28 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: equal different shaped tets Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed at least, you're giving a *hint* that you haven't actually "found" that the etrahedra can have all of the same "linear and areal" quanta. now, have you followed my proof, that you can get them to be of the same volume, or devized your own "brick by brick" approach? (I'm not saying that that is impossible, yet .-) thus quoth: Here is a forward from scimath. Why not consider 3d space an aggregate of equal irregular tets? In what sense can tets be equal when they are different shapes? They can be equal in one of the 3 measures of a tet: linear, areal and volumetric. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:32:43 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dimension Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed as this is merely a matter of scaling, why is it important? thus quoth: I have not seen this in a while. It is good review. I want an equation that related n to frequency. If n is size, then n must be directly related to frequency. In Adrian's model, as n increase, size decreases. Edges get shorter. In a geodesic domes, as n increases, size increases. The radius gets larger. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:34:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [Also, re: Big F, little f] Here is a simpler challenge for you: seeing as the "square" cross-section (or what you call "great polygon," which might turn-out to be a good neologism) isn't a rational part of the area of the tetrahedron, what *is* its area? Second part: turning the tet onto its base, and using a section that is parallel to it, find the hieghth of the trigonal cross-section that's ¼ of the are of a tetrah. On the wayside, I realized that your formula in the header is just a "counting function" of the number of trigona of the poly-delta-asteron, simply using Bucky's Eulerian formula. So, how does that prove your conjecture, if it does? Thus saith: you haven't even bothered to say what the formula, in the header, means, or how it could be true; --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:37:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: New file uploaded to synergeo Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this happens all the time to links in Hotmail, where I have to cut-and-paste from one browser to another (instance of the browser; using IE at the pubterms). NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not just his ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:50:50 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Synergeticists of the NorthEast Corridor (SNEC) Subject: Announcement: Synergetic Geometry Symposium on January 25 & 26th Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Synergeticists of the NorthEast Corridor present a two day symposium on A Fuller Explanation: Building on Amy Edmondson's Explanation of The Synergetic Geometry of R. Buckminster Fuller Confirmed Speakers: Robert Burkhardt Joseph D. Clinton Yasushi Kajikawa Shoji Sadao When: Saturday 25 January 2003, 12 AM - 6 PM Sunday 26 January 2003, 9 AM - 3 PM Where: Design Science Toys, Ltd 172 Pleasantvale Rd, Tivoli, NY 12583 Web Site: http://snec.cjfearnley.com/ Travel Directions: http://dstoys.org/cmf/projects/EastCoastConference/Travel%20Instructions On-Line Registration Form: http://snec.cjfearnley.com/registration.html Printable Registration Form: http://snec.cjfearnley.com/registration.pdf Costs: $40 registration fee $20 student registration fee $10 for lunch each day Note: $25 surcharge for at-the-door registrations. -- The lesson of history is that our firmest convictions are not to be asserted dogmatically; in fact they should be most suspect; they mark not our conquests but our limitations and our bounds. -- Morris Kline Christopher J. Fearnley | Explorer in Universe Chris@CJFearnley.com | Design Science Revolutionary http://www.CJFearnley.com | "Dare to be Naïve" -- Bucky Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:17:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 120-degree triangle triples. Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed on the wayside, the formula is called THE Law of Cosines, and it does reduce to the PT when angle C is 90 degrees, and chte cosine of 60 and 120 degrees are 1/2 and -1/2, repsectively; so, there. as for the proof that those give the only integral-sided trigona, I'm not so sure, now, but you could uncover that, if not explicitly, in Serpinski's book e.g. thus quoth: However, I don't have the proof at hand, nor do I recall where I read it. Serpinski's book on the PT is great, though. There may have been a proof in that issue of *Quantum* (my only citation in the lit. .-) Thus quoth: >cc = aa + bb - 2ab(cos(C)). > >just plug-in 90-degrees for C, to see wht happens. then, >plug-in 60 and 120 for the only other integral solutions --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:22:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: equal different shaped tets Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hey, maybe you can get "Larry" to help you, Lar-- I mean, Dick! anyway, do try to do it for the planar case, firstly (of course, that's just a special case of the "n-vertons" -- holy mother of Chr*n*s !-) thus quoth: or devized your own "brick by brick" approach? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:30:43 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 2(n-2)=area Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, you've "decategorized" the formula from its proper domain of topology, and recategorized it for your scheme -- with no justification that anyone can see (at least, not that any one has *said* they'd seen; they may have thought, it was just a ghost, or a small, still voice with no cartoon, associated .-) your other formula seem to fall under the category of "not even close to the possibility of being proven, wrong," with a thud, ker-plop or splat; try to avoid the belly-flop, in any case! thus saith: your formula in the header is just a "counting function" of the number of trigona of the poly-delta-asteron, simply using Bucky's Eulerian formula. So, how does that prove your conjecture, if it does? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:47:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: monterey dome Comments: To: Betsy Porter Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Betsy, Monterey Domes went out of business in about 1990 and were apparently = bought out and renamed Geodomes Woodworks in Riverside, CA, which, = unfortunately went out of business in about the year 2000. I don't have = any of the old sets of working plans, but I'm forwarding a copy of this = reply to two electronic newsletters (lists) that have members interested = in geodesic domes. If you tell me the name of the closest town = (Oregon?) where you are reassembling your dome, I can check to see if = there are any Monterey and/or Geodome Woodworks domes near you, if that = might help. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Betsy Porter=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 4:19 PM Subject: monterey dome Hello: I recently purchased a geodesic dome that was already constructed. My = friends and I disassembled it, and are now reassembling it in another = location. It says Monterey domes, inc. on some of the framing. I would = like to know if you would have any idea where I might get some plans for = this building, that I could show our local building department. I could = draw some myself, since my husband and I used to run a log home = construction business, and I am familiar with drawing plans, and dealing = with building departments when it comes to alternative housing, but it = would be eaiser if there are already some available. I know you will = probably need more specific information regarding the dome I have, but = am not sure what particulars you would need. It is approximately 27' in = diameter, and 16' tall in the middle. It has 6' walls around the = outside perimeter, separated by 3' walls.... alternating 3', then 6'x2, = then 3', then 6'x7'.... (walls for doors or windows), then 3'... then = back to 6'x2'... the first "round" of pieces were pentagons... (five = triangles), the second "round" of pieces were hexagons (six triangles), = and the top is another pentagon. The framing is connected with metal = "stars"... some with five legs, some with six... all drilled with two = holes through which bolts are run... after sliding the leg into the 2x4 = framing piece. (I am sure if you are familiar with what I am looking = for, that most of this will make sense to you.) If necessary I can get = you a patten number... I can almost read it on some of the framing = pieces. I do not know how old this dome was when I purchased it... but = my guess would be maybe ten years...If you can help me... that would be = great... if not.. can you send me in the right direction? thank you for your time Betsy b2d@teleport.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 01:27:16 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: W5 map on GeoJourney (@Yahoo!s (tm)) Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed there, it quotes, now. Waterman's map is a truncated octahedron (W5 in the paclkings), or what I refer to as an icsosakaitetra-gamma-asteron, which is dual to the icosakaitetra-delta-hedron (but note that the trigona aren't equilateral, though all-the-same .-) however, it doesn't look as if the hexagona of his map are equilateral, either. since the vast majority of world maps are strictly for display, including Bucky's, it's really just as good as any other of them, for a wall, place-mat or "other." --- In GeoJourney@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Hutchings " wrote: >I do recall that he'd had some map >that was based upon one of his "sweep-out" shapes >of the IVM. I think, my question at the time was, >Well, what especial quality does this map have? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 20:12:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: circumferential structural stresses in Fuller domes my work Comments: To: "Narasimham G.L." Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Narasimham, All I did was build a model of a tensegrity dome using Tinkertoys and = rubber bands. Then I played with it, pushing it and pulling it. See: http://www.buckminster.info//Ideas/02-TriWeave3wayDomePt2.htm http://www.buckminster.info//Ideas/02-TriDomeTenseg.htm http://www.buckminster.info//Pics/Icos-Dome-Tenseg6f-Leftwich.gif =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Narasimham G.L.=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:02 PM Subject: Re: circumferential structural stresses in Fuller domes my = work Dear Roger Moore, Thanks for the animation. I apprecite his vision. Although loads are not applied normal to shell = we have a pressure type of response, shrinking and dilating . I am working on the same type of structures, called Mitchell or = isotensoid. I am a structural engineer in high performance composites = and I obtained results qualitatively similar to BM Fuller and reported = results in Paris Composites conference 2 years back. The field is structural stability in which Fuller saw much ahead, = strenghth and stiffnes are short crawls, stability is a gaint step. Pleas give details of your work. sincerely, Narasimham >From: "Joe S Moore"=20 >To: "Narasimham G.L."=20 >CC: "List, The Geodesic"=20 >Subject: Re: circumferential structural stresses in Fuller domes=20 >Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:22:25 -0700=20 >=20 >Narasimham,=20 >=20 >Also, I know from actual experimentation that a tensegrity dome = contracts=20 >symmetrically toward the center as stress is applied inwardly (or it = expands=20 >symmetrically as stress is applied outwardly).=20 >See http://www.grunch.net/synergetics/rh_gall.html#jbmov=20 >=20 = >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 >Joe S Moore=20 >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 >http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W=20 >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute=20 = >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 >=20 >----- Original Message -----=20 >From: "Narasimham G.L."=20 >To:=20 >Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:12 AM=20 >Subject: Re: circumferential structural stresses in Fuller domes=20 >=20 >=20 > > Thanks.=20 > >=20 > > I do know that Fuller analyzed tensegrity domes as if they were = balloons.=20 > >=20 > > is quite unacceptable in structural engineering ; however it may = be so=20 >viewed :=20 > > when self load is resolved perpendicular to and along shell, the = latter is=20 >negligible compared to former which causes bending and then midplane=20 >strtching (balloon)=20 > >=20 > > narasimham=20 > >=20 >(snip) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:54:53 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: different shape, same volume Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The regular tet and the 1/4 octahedron are different shapes with exactly the same volume. For a tet to morph from one shape into the other, it only needs to changes one edge length. It changes from 1 into sqrt2. In order for this to happen, the height of the tet, as the hinged sides pass from one side of ninty to the other, reaches a maximum. All other edges stay the same length. This maximum height is sqrt3. The volume has to make a jump getting from one side of ninty to the other or back because it has to expand a little. It has to expand 4.44 percent. It expands 1.044465 times(if my math is right). Area changes from a mimimum of 4 to a maximum of of 2sqrt2+2, or 4.828427. Total edge lenght changes from 6 to 5+sqrt2, or 6.414213. So there is a jump over a hump when a tet goes from a regular tet to a 1/4 octa, or back. It takes a little energy to go from one volume to the other, one shape to the other. I'm thinking tetrahedral gear box. Left torqued or right torqued. It doesn't like the middle. It falls acute or obtuse, in or out. It is happy either way. This might be something like Bucky's twinkle angle. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:28:55 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: different shape, same volume Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I do have experience with a simple model (of my own device) that pertains to this. that's a lot-better example than some of your past efforts, but, please, don't put things in terms of rounded (or just truncated, in your case) decimals, but in terms of the (say) edge-unit -- in roots! that is, why do you say taht there's a "hump" -- a hump of what? thus quoth: Area changes from a mimimum of 4 to a maximum of of 2sqrt2+2, or 4.828427. Total edge lenght changes from 6 to 5+sqrt2, or 6.414213. So there is a jump over a hump when a tet goes from a regular tet to a 1/4 octa, or back. It takes a little energy to go from one volume to the other, one shape to the other. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:34:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Wolfram Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Weinberg's review is good and skeptical, although it's not really a sufficient exposure of the Wolframites, perhaps as it is coming from A Big-banger. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15762 --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:31:58 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Disbelievers Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it is kind-of intuitively clear that the component tetrahedra share plenty of edges; are you sure that there are 30 edges to it? thus quoth: I observed that the system was pretty much unstable between the compact and the expanded positions of the 12 balls. The 12th ball was just as happy inside as it was outside. One interesting thing I notices was that the package could be streched out into a tetrahelix which has 9 tets, 12 vertexes and 30 edges. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:39:49 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Waterman projection Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, this Klown didn't say, where he got the gnomonic projection onto an icosahedron, to begin with; did he? as I'd stated on synergetics-l with Gray, the dodecahedral projection is just as good, being its dual. (actually, there was a question as to whether it *is* a central projection, although I guess that it is; see _S_ for Bucky's thumbnail mehtod .-) I still don't see what is "special" about the W-projection, as the octahedral one can be made to look like a schematic butterfly, as well. thus quoth: >triangles). Also it can be rolled up into a globe. >http://www.geocities.com/kruste_klown/Map/Map.html I like having the ability to easily make, the folding up process, in my mind, and this, perhaps is the only enhancement to the Fuller projection, well, mine kind of looks like a butterfly too. Being a polyhedral projection, this factor helps to distribute distortions in a more even fashion, than ALL non-polyhedral approaches. It has a clearly recognizable equator. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 02:34:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: different shape, same volume Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed sorry, if I didn't give doc Dick a chance to reply. there will surely be a maximum of volume at the tetrahedral stage, if the hinge of two trogona is slid smoothly through taht, going from "no volume" when the hinge is "shut," through tetrah., octah., icosah. dihedrals and back to "no volume," when the hinge is flat-open. teh problem is thus to relate the change of the opposite edge (to the dihedral) to the heihgt of the tetrah. to the area of its base, considering that the "free end" o'the hinge describes a circle (this was what I was using it for, as an ad-hoc compasses of at least one hinge; thus, the assumption to "see" is that the hinge is laying on its side (of an edge of both trigona), with two of the vertices fixed & the other moving .-) thus quoth: why do you say taht there's a "hump" -- a hump of what? thus quoth: Area changes from a mimimum of 4 to a maximum of of 2sqrt2+2, or 4.828427. Total edge lenght changes from 6 to 5+sqrt2, or 6.414213. So there is a jump over a hump when a tet goes from a regular tet to a 1/4 octa, or back. It takes a little --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 07:06:48 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: different shape, same volume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I gave both terms, didn't I? The hump is a volume increase. In synergetics, volume is associated with the energy dimensions, or so I am told. For example, the tet has the most structure for the least volumes. The high frequency vertexion has the most volume with the least structure. In terms of energy, nature makes her bubbles round and not tetrahedral. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I do have experience with a simple model (of my own > device) > that pertains to this. that's a lot-better example > than some of your past efforts, but, please, > don't put things in terms of rounded (or > just truncated, in your case) decimals, but > in terms of the (say) edge-unit -- in roots! > thus quoth: > Area changes from a mimimum of 4 to a maximum of of > 2sqrt2+2, or 4.828427. Total edge lenght changes from 6 > to > 5+sqrt2, or 6.414213. > > So there is a jump over a hump when a tet goes from a > regular tet to a 1/4 octa, or back. It takes a little > energy to go from one volume to the other, one shape to > the > other. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 07:15:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Disbelievers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If the edges are shared, 1 edge will do where 3 tets abut. That's synergy. You can double and triple them up for demostration purposes, like if you face-bonded individual tets. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > it is kind-of intuitively clear that > the component tetrahedra share plenty of edges; > are you sure that there are 30 edges to it? > > thus quoth: > I observed that the system was pretty much unstable > between the > compact and the expanded positions of the 12 balls. The > 12th ball was > just as happy inside as it was outside. > One interesting thing I notices was that the package > could be streched > out into a tetrahelix which has 9 tets, 12 vertexes and > 30 edges. > > --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... > The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols > of the Elders of Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, > below): > 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) > 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:15:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: constrained geodesic Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't know yet what a constrained geodesic is but here is a picture of part of a very complicated and very irregular geodesic structure. http://www.mpi-sb.mpg.de/~mark/cnop/geodesic.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:27:57 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: n points Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is a new site about n points on a sphere: http://www.members.shaw.ca/goslinga/sphere/sphere.htm __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:42:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: constrained geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that was a nice picture. as for what it is, read the caption!... anyway, it really does show the principle of the slalom. thus quoth: I don't know yet what a constrained geodesic is but here is a picture of part of a very complicated and very irregular geodesic structure. http://www.mpi-sb.mpg.de/~mark/cnop/geodesic.html --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:48:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Waterman projection Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed mister Klowne, you didn't answer the query: where did you get the God-am trigona that make your silly map? thus quoth: The Penguins have good reason to be in a flap about this map, but I guess the Polar Bears don't care ! --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:36:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: constrained geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii That's not a joke, is it? Have you ever skied? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > that was a nice picture. as for what it is, > read the caption!... anyway, > it really does show the principle > of the slalom. > > thus quoth: > I don't know yet what a constrained geodesic is but here > is > a picture of part of a very complicated and very > irregular > geodesic structure. > > http://www.mpi-sb.mpg.de/~mark/cnop/geodesic.html > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, > so does Usama's MacJihad: > "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:32:55 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Fwd: Re: belfast Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Paul J Dolan wrote: >To: Dick Fischbeck > Subject: Re: belfast > > I'm sure that (either in 2-D or 3-D), one can vary the > shape & keep volume > or surface area or edge lenght constant -- I think the > real challenge is > to vary the shape & keep MORE than one of these constant. > > We will have to get together when I am back in maine this > summer! > > As a teacher myself, I know most students appreciate > > hands-on explorations. > > > > I know irregular tets fill space. What if their > volumes, > > areas, or total edge lengths are maintained? Can they > be > > all different shapes and still have one of these > parameters > > held constant? That's my lasted model-making excercise. > > --- Paul J Dolan wrote: > > > actually, one of the things i am doing with the dice > (or > > > rather, that my > > > students are) is somewhat similar -- the space > filling > > > problem -- what > > > fraction of space (3-dimensions) can be filled up by > the > > > particles, which > > > varies with the shape -- so i have 4-, 6-, 8- & 10- > (or > > > maybe it's 12- > > > ) sided dice, to measure that for each -- both in > 'real > > > life' (as in how > > > they fall) and ideally, if one places them at the > best > > > positions (and of > > > course the 6-sided dice will fill 100 % of space) -- > > > spheres will ideally > > > fill something like 67 % of space (i don't recall the > > > exact number -- but > > > that has been worked out) > > > > > > but you also have an interesting idea, varying the > shape > > > with constant > > > size -- that, in principle, would let you fill up > space > > > to 100 % > > > > > > paul d __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:01:09 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Gray's new pages Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Check out Bob Gray's new pages in the jitterbug and more. They are linked are: http://SNEC.CJFearnley.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:59:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: belfast Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is called, over-reaching. if you can show that you can do it with "unit-area, different shape" tetrahedra -- which is a *lot* harder than unit-vol. ones, not that you've shown that, either -- then, you might look into snazzy, extra, arbitrary? comndiotions! (actually, I'm sort-of sure that the first codition is impossible, but I have no basis for that conjecture in my mind .-) thus quoth: >I'm sure that (either in 2-D or 3-D), one can vary the >shape & keep volume >or surface area or edge lenght constant -- I think the >real challenge is >to vary the shape & keep MORE than one of these constant. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 02:04:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Waterman projection Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed my take on that about "maintaining the arcs" is, it's just a heuristic, and the thing amounts to a gnomonic (central) projection; at least, the figures seem to do that. --- In synergeo@yahoogroups.com, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" wrote: >(actually, there was a question as to whether it *is* a central projection, >although I guess that it is; see _S_ for Bucky's thumbnail mehtod .-) Yes, that question remains. I think it's not gnomonic. Something about keeping the master arcs of the icosa same length as original, even when uncurved into straight edges. A true gnomonic wouldn't have that characteristic maybe? This is second hand reporting based on a paper from Bob Gray, who did the math and helped Stu create his Globe Project (see www.dstoys.com ). --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 02:02:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: stable 12-a-none Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed he cluod *put* it in that way; why do you ask such a transparent question? thus quoth: You can't be saying, 12 @ zero is perferred by nature over the 11 @ 1, can you? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 04:50:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: to BC or not to BC; who cares? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed here's an older try at a thread that I just started on Drosnin's creepy, new "#II" book, on sci.math, _Hubbert's Peak_, Aish Ha-torah and Drosnin's "#II" Bible Code-thumper copyr.2002 CCE (yeeha) by Brian Hutchings http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1997Dec30.045947.2139%40lafn.org&output=gplain -- does that work?... here's an excerpt: >the important thing about the "Bibel code" is that >Drosnin was given a *leak* by these "breeteesh eezraelites", >namely a pseudo-orthodox group, Aish Ah-Torah, >whose sole prediction was the very event to which they have *intimacy* >with, the murder of Rabin by fellow, radical Zionists >-- the ones who beleive in Eratz Israel, death to the Palestinians, and >that Rabin was [thatHebrew word that is the mark for "justifiable" murder, >meaning "Jew-endangerer" or some thing. > their book, _Breaking the Bible Code_, doesn't mention Drosnin >by *name*. it uses the very same fallacy of composition, >the use of skipcodes to produce rectangular arrays >of "windows" onto the deconstructed text, but >they go futrther, in allowing all sorts of patterns, >beyond even *any* sort of diagonal. > these are the same "Yahus who are planning >to use the *threat* of nuclear escalation, to make radically punitive, >conventional strikes on the "West Bank, and the Other". > >>There is a good article about "The Bible Code" in the Nov./Dec. issue of >>Skeptical Inquirer by David Thomas. After reading how these "hidden >>messages" were found, which was apparently explained in the book, I >>don't see how anyone could believe they had any meaning at all. Mr >>Thomas, using the same method, found meaningful messages everywhere he >>looked. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 00:24:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: a new kind of loft bed, anyone want to help with the math? In-Reply-To: <20021218000109.63315.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, and happy holidays :-) So I was thinking of getting our four year old son a loft bed, with a slide, and when I began looking at the photos online, I was stuck with 2 thoughts which are... 1. These are the most overpriced, hokee "structures" I've ever seen. Like this is Euclidean Geometry at it's worst and in it's most devastating position - corrupting the young with medieval compression only technology. It's no wonder we're still so backwards as a species... Sorry, I really get going when it comes to bashing modern society. Then came the second thought, which was- 2. Hey I can't talk the talk and not walk the walk, so looking at Structure again I thought about it, and thought about it, and then it hit me. Now before you give me flack about it, let me give you the whole picture. A tensegrity loft bed with a slide- Using good rope, and some doweling, I should be able to construct a tensegrity loft bed, which could bounce (as much as I wish depending on the tension material used) slightly when my son climbs it, where at the top is his single bed. Now I'm thinking the cost of material is relatively low. And the only difficult part at least to me is the math behind the pieces. And solving the riddle of how to place a mattress (a solid semi non-flexing object) atop a flexing structure. All my mind is coming up with is some kind of rope lattice to hold the mattress with some flexibility. So if any of you math wizards out there want to help me, if it turns out to be a hit, I'll write you in to the patent, and split any profits it might make. Or we could just turn the public on to it free, so they too can give their kids a inexpensive, structurally sound, "cool" loft bed. I'll build it, I just need the lengths of wood and lengths of rope, or a system I can understand quickly. Let's save lives, teach tension compression design, and make a bed any kid would drool over cause it wiggles. Like Bucky used to say. Start with the young, before they become corrupted LOL! Aloha, Leifur Thor wannabe genius, anticipatory design scientist http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lthor/ ps. I'd like to make the prototype before this weekend. Nothing like a little pressure eh... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:13:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Modeling kits Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe this is the same Dave Anderson behind the "Monkey House" website: http://w3.one.net/~monkey/geodesics/ ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 10:14 PM Subject: Modeling kits > From: jmr > Date: 2002.12.17.23.06 > > I've just ordered a modeling kit from a company named TekStar: > > http://www.tekcad.com/products/tekkit.html > > They make a 3D modeling program named TekCAD, and the modeling > system, TekKit, is designed to go along with it (though you can > use the modeling kit without the software). > > The price is very reasonable, and you can buy only the hubs and > struts you need. The system seems to be designed with geodesics > and spaceframes in mind. I had a couple of very good email > conversations with the software designer, fellow name of David > J. Anderson. > > > Also... I finally broke down and ordered a ZomeTool from BFI. > It's a lot of fun. It suffers from the same thing a lot of > modeling kits suffer from, though: you never seem to have all > the pieces you need in order to build really interesting or > large shapes. Also, the way the ZomeTool goes about making simple > shapes like tetrahedra seems counterintuitive to me. Still, it's > fun, and you can learn a lot about symmetries from playing with > toys like these. (What a great present for some lucky kid this > Christmas....) > > jmr > > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) at > http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 03:05:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: to BC or not to BC; who cares? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops; contra what I said, below, the "Kookbook" is _CRACKING the Bible Code_, not Breaking it. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1997Dec30.045947.2139%40lafn.org&output=gpl\ain --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:03:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Just Two Cavities Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Toothbrush dome by George Hart: http://www.georgehart.com/sculpture/just-two-cavities.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 07:12:51 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Just Two Cavities MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT For anyone that didn't check out this link that Joe posted, here's a second chance. Don't pass up this one and be sure check out the whole site. There is some amazing and beautiful stuff here. Thanks Joe and Thanks George. Have a Peaceful Holiday Dave Watkins Toothbrush dome by George Hart: http://www.georgehart.com/sculpture/just-two-cavities.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:25:46 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: Just Two Cavities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" COOL ! -----Original Message----- From: Joe S Moore [mailto:joe_s_moore@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:04 AM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Just Two Cavities Toothbrush dome by George Hart: http://www.georgehart.com/sculpture/just-two-cavities.html ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:45:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Just Two Cavities In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC39313A77@pscserver3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is a virtual model, isn't it? --- Tony Kalenak wrote: > COOL ! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe S Moore [mailto:joe_s_moore@HOTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:04 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Just Two Cavities > > Toothbrush dome by George Hart: > > > http://www.georgehart.com/sculpture/just-two-cavities.html > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1904 09:12:06 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: a new kind of loft bed, anyone want to help with the math? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Howdy leifur,=20 Nice idea, i could put i some venture capital. Lets hope some of the resident =B3heads=B2 don=B9t think your idea too inconsequential for their pontificating. Seems to be a recurrent theme, pi= e in the sky mathematics. Lets get some useful applications of this higher math to the people. (this means you fischtick and you too quincy3) Leifur, keep me posted and let me know if i can help. But anything more difficult than 3 digit multiplication i leave to others pancho El 18/12/02 09:24, "Leifur Thor" escribi=F3: > Hi everyone, and happy holidays :-) >=20 > So I was thinking of getting our four year old son a loft bed, with a sli= de, > and when I began looking at the photos online, I was stuck with 2 thought= s > which are... >=20 > 1. These are the most overpriced, hokee "structures" I've ever seen. Like > this is Euclidean Geometry at it's worst and in it's most devastating > position - corrupting the young with medieval compression only technology= . > It's no wonder we're still so backwards as a species... >=20 > Sorry, I really get going when it comes to bashing modern society. Then c= ame > the second thought, which was- >=20 > 2. Hey I can't talk the talk and not walk the walk, so looking at Structu= re > again I thought about it, and thought about it, and then it hit me. Now > before you give me flack about it, let me give you the whole picture. >=20 > A tensegrity loft bed with a slide- >=20 > Using good rope, and some doweling, I should be able to construct a > tensegrity loft bed, which could bounce (as much as I wish depending on t= he > tension material used) slightly when my son climbs it, where at the top i= s > his single bed. >=20 > Now I'm thinking the cost of material is relatively low. And the only > difficult part at least to me is the math behind the pieces. And solving = the > riddle of how to place a mattress (a solid semi non-flexing object) atop = a > flexing structure. All my mind is coming up with is some kind of rope > lattice to hold the mattress with some flexibility. >=20 > So if any of you math wizards out there want to help me, if it turns out = to > be a hit, I'll write you in to the patent, and split any profits it might > make. Or we could just turn the public on to it free, so they too can giv= e > their kids a inexpensive, structurally sound, "cool" loft bed. I'll build > it, I just need the lengths of wood and lengths of rope, or a system I ca= n > understand quickly. >=20 > Let's save lives, teach tension compression design, and make a bed any ki= d > would drool over cause it wiggles. >=20 > Like Bucky used to say. Start with the young, before they become corrupte= d > LOL! >=20 > Aloha, >=20 > Leifur Thor > wannabe genius, anticipatory design scientist > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lthor/ >=20 > ps. I'd like to make the prototype before this weekend. Nothing like a > little pressure eh... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:00:37 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Critical Path MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone here ever wondered about the chapter in CP on evolution? -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:40:21 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: stable 12-a-none Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Nice, patronizing attitude for a pedant, I must say. Anyway, I still don’t see what is so interesting, given a fairly uniform tensional membrane, that the thing goes-back to the regular (icosah.) phase. That isn't any stranger than any other "least-energy" requirement, such as the "bending energy" of the sphere-eversion -- if it really works!... I've never argued with that particular thing, as it seems obvious; so, don't turn it into a Product of Obnoxico, please. Or, perhaps you prefer "Rybo" and his Buckafkaesque lingo; eh? Thus quoth: * I * apparently didn't 'get it' three or four years ago when I made an identical model, then stored it and promptly forgot about it. So, here's one for you. It is the same mental reasoning I used before I built the recent model: ( refer for image, please, to http://tetrahedraverse.com/tverse/autregico.htm ) Thus qtuoH: The only mathematically attainable, nearly pure geodesics of icosahedral gravity, are both the balloon and the marbles, manifesting as sub-atomics, atomics, micro-molecular and macro-molecular aggregates that are instrumentally detectable and sensorially defined by us humans, as energy. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:42:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Granada Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I forget; where is Granada -- the Caribbean? I saw a similar video (I can't see any on this pubterm), when Thurston made hi presentation at the first joint meeting of the NoCal and SoCal chapters of the MAA (where I gave a 15' talk, two .-) Here's the quote on the bending-energy: Our eversions are computed automatically by minimizing an elastic bending energy for surfaces in space (called the Willmore energy [Wil]). We start with a complicated self-intersecting sphere, which has the desired rotational symmetry, and is also halfway inside-out in the sense of having its inside and outside equally exposed. This halfway model is a saddle critical point for the Willmore energy. When we push off the saddle in two opposite directions and then flow downhill in energy to the ordinary round sphere, it is inside-out in one direction, but not in the other. The Optiverse shows the first few eversions in our family, with 2-, 3-, 4-, and 5-fold symmetry. The mathematics behind these eversions is described more fully in our papers [FS+, FSH]. The two-fold eversion goes over the lowest possible saddle-point for the energy, so we call it the "minimax eversion". Topologically, it is the same as the Morin/Max eversion. The odd-order eversions use double-covered projective planes for their halfway models, as in Tony Phillips' famous eversion [Phi]. In any sphere eversion, the changing "double-locus" of self-intersections is a key item to watch as the sphere turns inside out. We examine in detail the sequence of events in the minimax eversion, that is, the times when there are reconnections in the double-locus. At the halfway stage in the three-fold eversion, we see the propeller-shaped double-locus of Boy's surface break apart as the oppositely oriented sheets separate. thus quoth: > > http://new.math.uiuc.edu/optiverse/ Yah. Pretty video, but if one allows passage of surfaces through surfaces, inverting a sphere would be trivial. I wonder why the method shown there is so complicated. >I'm not sure what geometric energy is. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:50:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Critical Path Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Steve Miller >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Critical Path >Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:00:37 -0500 Hi Steve, congratulations. I visited your page. The structure you have in your hands (the one with the earpadlike struts) looks nicer than the "toothbrush" structure of some days ago. I will read again the CP. I don't remember the evolution paragraphs, but it desperates me that an agreemente on that subject (at least in the very subject of big big big megatrends: where Fuller is almost identical to McLuhan is almost identical to T. de Chardin, etc.) would probably put us in a more reasonable path towards peace. When I see your plywood structure, I remember the inherent wisdom in the Kikapu (north of México, south of US) indians fiber houses (very dome alike) best regards Gerardo PS. It is good to hear about Spain's internet hosted Frank/Pancho. My back cries for that Leifur Thor bed... after the Prestige kind of sleeping beauties get theirs. >Has anyone here ever wondered about the chapter in CP on evolution? >Formactive: >http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:59:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Critical Path MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve et al, I assume you are referring to Chapter 1, "Speculative Prehistory of Humanity", especially pages 6-9. I believe that Fuller is correct, that porpoises, whales, and monkeys evolved backwards (devolved) from humans. That is, they specialized and adapted to their environments and lost certain general human qualities. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Miller" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:00 PM Subject: Critical Path > Has anyone here ever wondered about the chapter in CP on evolution? > -- > Formactive: > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:01:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: Question about Alvin E. Miller (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spencer W Hunter" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:15 AM Subject: Question about Alvin E. Miller (fwd) > Apparently Dr. Albanese either doesn't read his email or chose not to > respond. However, today an architecture emeritus professor, W. Kirby > Lockard stopped by the library and did know Professor > Miller. He says Dr. Miller is deceased, and he thinks you have the right > dates. He also says Dr. Miller worked directly with Fuller at one time as > a "travelling assistant," and was responsible for bringing Fuller to speak > at the UA a couple of times. He (Miller) built several domes with his > students while he was at the UA. Dr. Lockard is unsure, however, if any > of them are still standing. > > Sorry this took so long to resolve; hope this helps. > > Spencer Hunter, Library Specialist > gopher://www.u.arizona.edu:80/hGET%20/%7Eshunter > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:06:50 -0700 > From: Spencer W Hunter > To: Charles A Albanese , > Joe S Moore > Subject: Question about Alvin E. Miller > > Dear Dr. Albanese: > > We recently recieved the following question at the UA Architecture Library > from Mr. Moore, whom I'm including in the reply. The staff at the School > of Architecture, who knew that Dr. Miller was a former professor of > Architecture at the UA, suggested I contact you: > > > Have you ever heard of a Dr Alvin E Miller at UA? He and his students > were supposed to have designed and built a 420 sq foot self-contained > geodesic dome cabin sometime in the past that was on a site "in the > desert near here". The only info I can find is a library entry of a > resume listing for him with the dates 1924-1989. Does that mean he's > deceased? This info is from a newspaper article (probably the San > Francisco Chronicle, date unknown) that is probably 20 years old. It had > a windmill, a thermal chimney, solar stills, and "solar energy". > > > I'm quite curious about this myself! Do you know of any publications by > Dr. Miller I could look up? > > Thanks for any information you may provide. > > Sincerely yours, > > Spencer Hunter, Library Specialist > gopher://www.u.arizona.edu:80/hGET%20/%7Eshunter > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 03:20:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 21/12/02 1:59, Joe S Moore at joe_s_moore@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > I assume you are referring to Chapter 1, "Speculative Prehistory of > Humanity", especially pages 6-9. I believe that Fuller is correct, that > porpoises, whales, and monkeys evolved backwards (devolved) from humans. > That is, they specialized and adapted to their environments and lost certain > general human qualities. Some species of mammal evolved so as to adapt to living in water rather than on land, hence porpoises and whales, but there is no such thing as backwards evolution, and they and monkeys certainly did not evolve from humans. I can't imagine why anyone would think they did. Looking into Critical Path again to pursue references to Darwin, I am shocked to find how bizarre and misguided Fuller's speculations were. It is embarrassing to read what he says: "my speculative prehistory has assumed (since 1927) Darwin's evolution of life from the simple to the complex, accomplished through progressive agglomeration of single-cell amoebas, to be in reverse of the facts" (p.7) If Fuller had taken the time to investigate biology a little more seriously since 1927, he wouldn't have persisted with this ludicrous assumption. For a start, Darwin didn't say that amoebas are the building-blocks of life. Then Fuller seems to be imagining that amoebas have come about through the degeneration of complex life-forms! Where would they have come from? On p.17 Fuller speculates further about the origins of humanity on the "basis" of some claims about who had the first Bronze Age. Making an unsupported inference that humanity began in Austronesia rather than Africa, he goes on to say: "This reversal of the basic history of civilization also lends further credence to my reversed Darwinian theory of evolution on planet Earth." Even if his history were correct, it obviously would not and could not support his "theory" of evolution, since evolution precedes civilization. Fuller doesn't pursue these ideas in Critical Path (which is fortunate), apart from making some foolish statements about Marx, which are just about as ill-informed as his remarks about Darwin. As an example of current thinking about human origins, I copy below a notice about a new book. Paul Taylor +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey by Spencer Wells Hardcover: 256 pages Publisher: Princeton Univ Pr; ISBN: 069111532X; 1st edition (January 1, 2003) AMAZON - US http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/069111532X/darwinanddarwini/ AMAZON - UK http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/069111532X/humannaturecom/ Around 60,000 years ago, a man, identical to us in all important respects, walked the soil of Africa. Every man alive today is descended from him. How did he come to be father to all of us - a real-life Adam? And why do we come in such a huge variety of types and races if we all share a single prehistoric ancestor? In this fascinating book Spencer Wells shows how the truth is hidden in our genetic code, and how developments in the cutting-edge science of population genetics has made it possible not just to discover where our ancestors lived, (and who they may have fought, loved and learned from) but to create a family tree for the whole of humanity. The Journey of Man reveals, among other astonishing facts, that there was a real Adam and Eve; that the San Bushmen of the Kalahari have some of the oldest genetic markers in the world; that Neanderthals have been shown once and for all to be an evolutionary dead-end; and that the entire genetic diversity of Native Americans can be accounted for by just ten individuals. This is an enthralling, epic tour through the history of early humankind, providing definitive answers to questions which, in an age obsessed by our biological inheritance, are more compelling than ever. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 09:12:53 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I think it's possible that both Fuller and Darwin were wrong. I do however believe Fuller had access to more broad information about universe than Darwin did. Darwin was a specialist. And if we are to say the information of a specialist is more valid than that of a generalist, we only validate a society of specialists further, which I find dangerous. I think what Fuller was meaning was (and one and all correct me if I've got this wrong) is that species evolve towards adaptability, not specialization, which although they may sound similar, are vastly different from one another. > From: Paul Taylor > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 03:20:20 +0000 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Critical Path > > on 21/12/02 1:59, Joe S Moore at joe_s_moore@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > >> I assume you are referring to Chapter 1, "Speculative Prehistory of >> Humanity", especially pages 6-9. I believe that Fuller is correct, that >> porpoises, whales, and monkeys evolved backwards (devolved) from humans. >> That is, they specialized and adapted to their environments and lost certain >> general human qualities. > > Some species of mammal evolved so as to adapt to living in water rather than > on land, hence porpoises and whales, but there is no such thing as backwards > evolution, and they and monkeys certainly did not evolve from humans. > > I can't imagine why anyone would think they did. > > Looking into Critical Path again to pursue references to Darwin, I am > shocked to find how bizarre and misguided Fuller's speculations were. It is > embarrassing to read what he says: > > "my speculative prehistory has assumed (since 1927) Darwin's evolution of > life from the simple to the complex, accomplished through progressive > agglomeration of single-cell amoebas, to be in reverse of the facts" (p.7) > > If Fuller had taken the time to investigate biology a little more seriously > since 1927, he wouldn't have persisted with this ludicrous assumption. For a > start, Darwin didn't say that amoebas are the building-blocks of life. Then > Fuller seems to be imagining that amoebas have come about through the > degeneration of complex life-forms! Where would they have come from? > > On p.17 Fuller speculates further about the origins of humanity on the > "basis" of some claims about who had the first Bronze Age. Making an > unsupported inference that humanity began in Austronesia rather than Africa, > he goes on to say: > > "This reversal of the basic history of civilization also lends further > credence to my reversed Darwinian theory of evolution on planet Earth." > > Even if his history were correct, it obviously would not and could not > support his "theory" of evolution, since evolution precedes civilization. > Fuller doesn't pursue these ideas in Critical Path (which is fortunate), > apart from making some foolish statements about Marx, which are just about > as ill-informed as his remarks about Darwin. > > As an example of current thinking about human origins, I copy below a notice > about a new book. > > > Paul Taylor > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey > by Spencer Wells > Hardcover: 256 pages > Publisher: Princeton Univ Pr; ISBN: 069111532X; 1st edition (January 1, > 2003) > AMAZON - US > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/069111532X/darwinanddarwini/ > AMAZON - UK > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/069111532X/humannaturecom/ > > Around 60,000 years ago, a man, identical to us in all important respects, > walked the soil of Africa. Every man alive today is descended from him. How > did he come to be father to all of us - a real-life Adam? And why do we come > in such a huge variety of types and races if we all share a single > prehistoric ancestor? > > In this fascinating book Spencer Wells shows how the truth is hidden in our > genetic code, and how developments in the cutting-edge science of population > genetics has made it possible not just to discover where our ancestors > lived, (and who they may have fought, loved and learned from) but to create > a family tree for the whole of humanity. The Journey of Man reveals, among > other astonishing facts, that there was a real Adam and Eve; that the San > Bushmen of the Kalahari have some of the oldest genetic markers in the > world; that Neanderthals have been shown once and for all to be an > evolutionary dead-end; and that the entire genetic diversity of Native > Americans can be accounted for by just ten individuals. > > This is an enthralling, epic tour through the history of early humankind, > providing definitive answers to questions which, in an age obsessed by our > biological inheritance, are more compelling than ever. > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 17:38:31 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Critical Path Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Paul Taylor >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Critical Path >Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 03:20:20 +0000 The late Stephen Jay Gould spend some efforts (the Piltdown hoax) to prove Teilhard de Chardin's pissing out of the toilette; and later on onte of his greatest claimings was something that Teilhard de Chardin had stated decades before (Vision of the past): that there was no use to go on digging in search of the "beginning" of anything. It is exactly the same thing to say (with Fuller) that the first man comes from the waters as to say that the first man comes from Africa. How can anybody say "this the first first first bone of a man" and be completely sure that anybody else will not find an older human or hominid bone? Teilhard de Chardin said that it was impossible to know everything (or anything as well) about the past, the same that it is imposible to know what is happening in the present, that the only thing for sure is the future. I think that this last statement really makes evolutionary sense. If there is a megatrend towards more and more freedom of action (TEilhard's "centrefication" idea= more centered individuals) the purpose about knowing our own genetics could be to know how far are we from being autoamtically determined by genes, thus, how far are we from being centered or really free to decide our bonds (the next step in Teilhard: "the center to center union"). If there is a Leaky kind or race towards finding the oldest hominid or human bones, it is an endless one. (kind of a patent race to hold more value after more value) I like TEilhard's ideas about evolution also as an earth sense about what is the point of the arrow second by second: when man appeared, there was no sense for the whole to try some other species if this one is more or less what it was trying to do. If Teilhard de Chardin's idea about "collective investigation" as the next step from individual investigation (or collective investigation as a second power investigation) is correct, we´d better pay more attention to the linux software phenomenon, the Lorenzo's oil and the Rubin "Hurricane" Carter's kind of facts... just in case the spaceship earth as a whole is following that kind of accounting. Same thing, it is wise from BFI.org to show the interview with Jacobs (the foghouse theater author of the piece on Fuller) in the first page of the site, instead of hiding it in the trimtab. The concept about Fuller being the witness (the ethimology of the word from TESTIMONY, FROM TESTICLE) or one of the witnesses of the XX century I think is correct. The same as it is stated (below) that Fuller ideas about evolution were bizarre, it would be bizarre from us to keep on backing the patent system if we agree with Fuller ideas about the "divide and conquer", one of the many, if not all, things that he could not overcome, maybe becasuse in the origin it is very crazy his idea about the individual isolated discovering the principles of the universe, instead of big numbers of human beings discovering the principles in collectivity and togetherness. A figure (if only rethoric) made possible by the noosphere-internet thing. Have an evolutive (never definitive) merry Christmas PS. what is the problem about handpicking Fuller's evolutive idea of more and better for ever more and more people? Should we discard this idea because he surley said that fleas once were in the cirque du soleil and now make one only unelegant kind of jump? Can we have some red hot chile statement from Quincy? >>on 21/12/02 1:59, Joe S Moore at joe_s_moore@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > > > I assume you are referring to Chapter 1, "Speculative Prehistory of > > Humanity", especially pages 6-9. I believe that Fuller is correct, that > > porpoises, whales, and monkeys evolved backwards (devolved) from humans. > > That is, they specialized and adapted to their environments and lost >certain > > general human qualities. > >Some species of mammal evolved so as to adapt to living in water rather >than >on land, hence porpoises and whales, but there is no such thing as >backwards >evolution, and they and monkeys certainly did not evolve from humans. > >I can't imagine why anyone would think they did. > >Looking into Critical Path again to pursue references to Darwin, I am >shocked to find how bizarre and misguided Fuller's speculations were. It is >embarrassing to read what he says: > >"my speculative prehistory has assumed (since 1927) Darwin's evolution of >life from the simple to the complex, accomplished through progressive >agglomeration of single-cell amoebas, to be in reverse of the facts" (p.7) > >If Fuller had taken the time to investigate biology a little more seriously >since 1927, he wouldn't have persisted with this ludicrous assumption. For >a >start, Darwin didn't say that amoebas are the building-blocks of life. Then >Fuller seems to be imagining that amoebas have come about through the >degeneration of complex life-forms! Where would they have come from? > >On p.17 Fuller speculates further about the origins of humanity on the >"basis" of some claims about who had the first Bronze Age. Making an >unsupported inference that humanity began in Austronesia rather than >Africa, >he goes on to say: > >"This reversal of the basic history of civilization also lends further >credence to my reversed Darwinian theory of evolution on planet Earth." > >Even if his history were correct, it obviously would not and could not >support his "theory" of evolution, since evolution precedes civilization. >Fuller doesn't pursue these ideas in Critical Path (which is fortunate), >apart from making some foolish statements about Marx, which are just about >as ill-informed as his remarks about Darwin. > >As an example of current thinking about human origins, I copy below a >notice >about a new book. > > >Paul Taylor > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey >by Spencer Wells >Hardcover: 256 pages >Publisher: Princeton Univ Pr; ISBN: 069111532X; 1st edition (January 1, >2003) >AMAZON - US >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/069111532X/darwinanddarwini/ >AMAZON - UK >http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/069111532X/humannaturecom/ > >Around 60,000 years ago, a man, identical to us in all important respects, >walked the soil of Africa. Every man alive today is descended from him. How >did he come to be father to all of us - a real-life Adam? And why do we >come >in such a huge variety of types and races if we all share a single >prehistoric ancestor? > >In this fascinating book Spencer Wells shows how the truth is hidden in our >genetic code, and how developments in the cutting-edge science of >population >genetics has made it possible not just to discover where our ancestors >lived, (and who they may have fought, loved and learned from) but to create >a family tree for the whole of humanity. The Journey of Man reveals, among >other astonishing facts, that there was a real Adam and Eve; that the San >Bushmen of the Kalahari have some of the oldest genetic markers in the >world; that Neanderthals have been shown once and for all to be an >evolutionary dead-end; and that the entire genetic diversity of Native >Americans can be accounted for by just ten individuals. > >This is an enthralling, epic tour through the history of early humankind, >providing definitive answers to questions which, in an age obsessed by our >biological inheritance, are more compelling than ever. > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:27:27 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: Critical Path MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I left the chapter feeling puzzled by the human to porpoise idea. One idea I found appealing was the suggestion that early remains of humans are found in Africa because the ground has not been used so hard. It is quite logical that humans would be found in the greatest concentrations at their place of origin (Indonesia perhaps); that that place would be perfectly suited to the nurture of early humans; that remains would be impossible to find beneath many layers of crumbled societies that followed. Much like the recent assertion that dinosaurs were the warmblooded ancestors of birds, this idea that Africa is an dangerous cradle of earliest humanity may someday be supported by hard evidence. >> Formactive: >> http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:42:56 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: [Fwd: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au report)] Comments: To: The DomeHome List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tell me it ain't so! Steve Miller (triorbtl@sover.net ) suggested you might be interested in this http://theaustralian.com.au report. US base sinks in South Pole From correspondents in Auckland 16 December 2002 ENGINEERS say America's $US135 million ($A239 million) base being built at the South Pole is sinking into the polar snow faster than expected, according to news report. The new base is being built to replace previous bases that are already beneath the snow, with the original 1957 base about 10 metres under and the current dome base also becoming buried. Antarctic Sun, a newspaper published at the US base at McMurdo Sound, reports in its latest issue that the new station, elevated about four metres above ground level on support posts, had been expected to sink 90 centimetres during the next 20 years. But measurements from the past two years show the station is currently sinking about 12 centimetres a year. Dennis Berry, the lead structural engineer for the new station, told the newspaper it was hoped the sinking would ease with time. It may also be possible to modify the support columns and other parts of the station so it could be raised more than the 3.6 metres planned in the original design. Frank Brier, US National Science Foundation project manager for the new station, said engineers realised they had a problem when a platform linking the new station to a tower became uneven. "If the footings are sinking into the snow, maybe we can increase the size of the footing and spread the weight around," he said. "If the entire snow field is settling, we will not have many options... "We always assumed we'd go four to five years without levelling, but we're going to level about half of the columns this year," Brier said. "I think everybody realises there's not a lot of information on building in snow," he said. Americans have been living at the South Pole since 1957 and from 1975 they lived in a maze of tunnels built around a geodesic dome which was above ground when it was built. Now it too is almost completely below the snow. A photogenic physical pole and a line of flags have had to be regularly moved as the 2700 metre ice sheet below it slides across the ground. The new American Amundsen-Scott Base honours Norwegian Roald Amundsen, the first person to arrive at the Pole on December 14, 1911, and Englishman Robert Scott who arrived on January 17, 1912 and died on the return trek to the coast. Click here to sign up for daily headlines -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 23:00:32 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Granada Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed not having a continuos surface would defeat the whole ideal; surfaces have every much of ideal from as do points, edges & tetrahedra, *pace* Buckafka Fullofit!... now, whether it hath any "mathematical-physical" significance, is another question (they didn't no fo any, that I saw on taht page, other than the appearance of a what sort-of-looks like a grastula. thus quoth: So, one would have to conclude they are not using some "continuous" surface; that the surface is points, hence when the eversion gets down to the last few points, "hedral" angles get involved before the end of the eversion? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:14:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: SNEC Registration Form Comments: To: cjf@AdminForce.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed so, you don't monitor geodesic-l, just post to it. anyway, I can't get to my site, either, because Homestead are a bunch of nasties, whom I'll have to sue, i guess. the paper/flyer was made as an explanatroy hand-out for a poster at the Spring '01 MAA Socal chapter, called, "Cosmometrical Constance: a new world hors d'oeurve," and there are several things on it that Bucky'd have liked, one of which is tossing his nouveau suffix, -vertexion (tm) -- sounds too-much like his trademark, of which he swore that he'd never make another -- and developing the idea as he may have been thinking (on his deathbed, unless it was Kyoshi's idea .-) however, someone on geodesic-l probably has got it, so taht you could ask, there, in time for the conference -- then, you wouldn't need me to blab about it (although I *would* have to explain tetrahedronometry; eh ?-) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html >I have not seen your paper/flyer "cosmo constance". The reference on >geodesic-l, http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html did not and >still does not work. Can you please send me another URL or link? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:18:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: heads-up (or "in") re Dec.13 *Science* Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Dec.13 *Science* has several good articles, and I want to single-out the two that are known under "climate change" -- although both of them use the gedanken phrase, "global warming," as a synonym for "like, millions of Bunsen-burners massed around the globe!" They are "River Flow Could derail Crucial Ocean Current" on p2171, and "Ice Sheets on the Move" on p2147. Of course, they are just as interesting for their many *caveats*, as for the broad theses that are made. here's some thing that Ijust missed: a local guy, Bill Lauritzen, just held (3:48pm?) a solstice thing, where he introduced (according to local "calendar" listing) his terminology for a "heliocentric" diurnal chronology: "spin-out" and "spin-in." of course, Bucky's seems better to me, although I could be persuaded to dump his, along with the awful "-vertexion!" --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:35:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: n points on a sphere Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the table is rather mind-numbing, whereas the dyscussion of Brown is better, at http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath005.htm. I don't know about any of the other citations, but I did learn some thing: although all of the shapes at least to 12 vertices are easily described as the 2n-deltahedra --although n-gamma-asteron is more perspicuous, and you can thank Bucky for that!-- they are *not* all of equilateral trigona, as with the pentagamma-asteron (or the decadeltahedron) for the first case of that. --- In synergeo message 9979, Steve Waterman wrote >Here is a sequence for n points on a sphere...note the >seperation distances are in descending order. > >http://www.members.shaw.ca/goslinga/sphere/table.htm There are many ways to define the problem of arranging N points on a sphere, discussed at the start of the page at http://www.members.shaw.ca/goslinga/sphere/sphere.htm and different minimization criteria will lead to arrangements with different kinds of properties. The criterion used to generate the table at .../table.html doesn't seem to always select a Platonic-solid-style arrangement when possible. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 01:18:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: <3E04C09F.2070101@sover.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 21/12/02 19:27, Steve Miller at triorbtl@SOVER.NET wrote: > I left the chapter feeling puzzled by the human to porpoise idea. That may be a good sign. > One idea I found appealing was the suggestion that early remains of > humans are found in Africa because the ground has not been used so hard. > It is quite logical that humans would be found in the greatest > concentrations at their place of origin (Indonesia perhaps); that that > place would be perfectly suited to the nurture of early humans; that > remains would be impossible to find beneath many layers of crumbled > societies that followed. I suggest we consult archaeology rather than indulge in speculation. > Much like the recent assertion that dinosaurs were the warmblooded > ancestors of birds, this idea that Africa is an dangerous > cradle of earliest humanity may someday be supported by hard evidence. I don't follow that last bit. I think there is evidence that humanity started out in Africa, as suggested in the book notice I posted earlier. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 01:18:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 21/12/02 17:12, Leifur Thor at lthor@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > I think it's possible that both Fuller and Darwin were wrong. It's extremely unlikely that Fuller was saying anything well-grounded about evolution in the passages quoted, whereas Darwin's theory of descent by natural selection, in its contemporary neo-Darwinian form, is supported by an enormous amount of evidence, and is now the central explanatory theory in biology. > I do however believe Fuller had access to more broad information about > universe than Darwin did. Darwin was a specialist. And if we are to say the > information of a specialist is more valid than that of a generalist, we only > validate a society of specialists further, which I find dangerous. We may well need more generalists, but we certainly can't do without specialists. Saying that the information of a specialist is more valid than that of a generalist does necessarily validate a society consisting only of specialists. > I think what Fuller was meaning was (and one and all correct me if I've got > this wrong) is that species evolve towards adaptability, not specialization, > which although they may sound similar, are vastly different from one > another. As species adapt to their environment, they will tend to specialize, and there are countless examples of this. If the environment shifts too rapidly, they may not be able to adapt quickly enough, and then may be extinguished. Species don't really evolve towards anything: we can only say that kind of thing retrospectively, as evolution is not a teleological process. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 01:18:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 21/12/02 17:38, Gerardo Garcia at garciacabrero@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > The late Stephen Jay Gould spend some efforts (the Piltdown hoax) to prove > Teilhard de Chardin's pissing out of the toilette; and later on onte of his > greatest claimings was something that Teilhard de Chardin had stated decades > before (Vision of the past): that there was no use to go on digging in > search of the "beginning" of anything. It is exactly the same thing to say > (with Fuller) that the first man comes from the waters as to say that the > first man comes from Africa. How can anybody say "this the first first > first bone of a man" and be completely sure that anybody else will not find > an older human or hominid bone? It is clearly not the same thing to say that the first man comes from the waters as to say that the first man comes from Africa. There is no reason to think that man swam onto the beach and then became land-based, whereas there is evidence that the human species originated in Africa. > Teilhard de Chardin said that it was impossible to know everything (or > anything as well) about the past, the same that it is imposible to know what > is happening in the present, that the only thing for sure is the future. I > think that this last statement really makes evolutionary sense. It doesn't seem to make any sense. Just because it is impossible to know everything about the past obviously does not mean that it is impossible to know anything. It is ridiculous to say that the only thing for sure is the future, unless you mean truisms like "everyone will die one day or another". I recommend Peter Medawar's review of Teilhard de Chardin's "The Phenomenon of Man", reprinted in "Pluto's Republic". I also recommend Richard Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" as a very clear exposition of current Darwinian thinking. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 01:24:26 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 22/12/02 1:18, Paul Taylor at pt@NOUS.ORG.UK wrote: > We may well need more generalists, but we certainly can't do without > specialists. Saying that the information of a specialist is more valid than > that of a generalist does necessarily validate a society consisting only of > specialists. Correction: I meant to write that it does NOT necessarily validate a society consisting only of specialists. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 19:02:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: ultimate self-sufficient home book Comments: To: Dave Winsfield MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave, Sorry for not replying sooner. I will be adding an entry about your book in my master index under "Autonomous"; see http://www.buckminster.info//Index/Au-Az.htm (scroll down to "Autonomous"). In early January I will upload my updates to my website which will include yours. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Winsfield" To: Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:14 AM Subject: ultimate self-sufficient home book > > www.planetearthhome.com explains the 28 years of research that went into the design of the world's most advanced "bio-shelter/earthship-type" of structure that is designed to provide total independence to a family of 4 in food and power and be located anywhere on the earth. This vast reference book is an encyclopedia of virtually all sustainable/self-reliant technologies and systems such as solar, wind, PV, greenhouse gardening, recycling, waste processing, alternative toilet/sewage systems, wood burning, efficient cooking, natural lighting, efficient HVAC systems, battery storage, diet/nutrition, aquaculture, food storage, flax bale, and much, much more. The well-organized bibliography (yellow page section) includes thousands of books, journals, and product literature that can be referenced. There is a complete table of contents online that gives a glimpse of the mountains of information contained in this one book. > > This "mini-farm food-factory home" is designed to process and use all water, recycle wastes, and be non-polluting. It goes further to suggest a complete system for human habitation homes that is easier to construct and maintain and can be located in any climatic region. The author, Mel Moench, believes that it could/should be a sustainable development model for groups to move toward autonomy in food and power, lessen pollution, and increase levels of health as well. This basic home plan can be used for extended families, villages, and entire societies. > > I hope you will take a glimpse of this incredible work and consider using it as course material, put it in your reference library, add a link to our site, and/or including it in your book offerings. > > > Thank you for listening......Dave Winsfield for Osprey Press. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:59:21 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Critical Path MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Species don't really evolve towards anything: we can only say that kind of > thing retrospectively, as evolution is not a teleological process. > > > Paul Taylor I really don't see that this has been established. The arguments I have seen against a teleological aspect to the evolutionary process seem to be more philosophical than scientific. I believe that Teilhard de Chardin, Ken Wilber and numerous others make arguments for a teleological component that are supported by science. From my perspective it seems that most of what the neo-Darwinians conclude can be said only retrospectively. In some regards I see Wilber as taking the work of specialists and putting it in a generalists framework. His four quadrant system looks at the evolutionary process in all of its aspects. I believe that the difference between Wilber and Fuller is that Wilber took a closer look at what the specialist were saying and the context in which they were making there conclusions. I think we have a problem if we try to make conclusions about the evolution of species from a strictly material point of view. I would agree with Fuller, Teilhard, Wilber and Bohm that the interior aspects of evolution is where the evolution of the human species is most active. I don't believe we can reduce mind and culture to by products of material processes. It seems that more of the data is accounted for if we use a teleological model than if we don't. The less data we look at, that is if we limit our generalized approach, the more adequate the neo-Darwinian model works. Have a peaceful holiday! Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 07:19:27 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: Critical Path MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Evolution is a subject I began studying in the second grade. I grew up with the basic idea, as laid out by science, well understood. Since then I have tried to align it with what I have learned in other subjects, including logic. The human thumb is a good example of evolution. We all have them, with few exceptions. I think the most logical origin of the thumb is a deformity in one individual. Unlike the concept that an apelike hand gradually developed an opposed thumb, it is far more likely an opposed thumb occurred in one human, and was an advantageous development; this one individual is our common ancestor. This is a polygonal approach to evolution. Rather than the gradual changes I encountered in books on evolution, I think evolution occurs more abruptly, turning corners. Some changes make sense in several stages,like longer or shorter tails, but others would only make sense with an abrupt development. Paul, I was hoping to discuss the chapter as a subject of interest, but you seem determined to stamp it out. I see the chapter as an odd piece of writing by Fuller that brings up some interesting ideas. His advice on diet was another field he was not quite at home in. David Watkins wrote: >>Species don't really evolve towards anything: we can only say that kind of >>thing retrospectively, as evolution is not a teleological process. >> >> >>Paul Taylor >> > > I really don't see that this has been established. The arguments I have seen > against a teleological aspect to the evolutionary process seem to be more > philosophical than scientific. I believe that Teilhard de Chardin, Ken > Wilber and numerous others make arguments for a teleological component that > are supported by science. From my perspective it seems that most of what the > neo-Darwinians conclude can be said only retrospectively. > > In some regards I see Wilber as taking the work of specialists and putting > it in a generalists framework. His four quadrant system looks at the > evolutionary process in all of its aspects. I believe that the difference > between Wilber and Fuller is that Wilber took a closer look at what the > specialist were saying and the context in which they were making there > conclusions. > > I think we have a problem if we try to make conclusions about the evolution > of species from a strictly material point of view. I would agree with > Fuller, Teilhard, Wilber and Bohm that the interior aspects of evolution is > where the evolution of the human species is most active. I don't believe we > can reduce mind and culture to by products of material processes. It seems > that more of the data is accounted for if we use a teleological model than > if we don't. The less data we look at, that is if we limit our generalized > approach, the more adequate the neo-Darwinian model works. > > Have a peaceful holiday! > > Dave Watkins > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:58:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: <3E05ADCF.2020204@sover.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 22/12/02 12:19, Steve Miller at triorbtl@SOVER.NET wrote: > The human thumb is a good example of evolution. We all have them, with > few exceptions. I think the most logical > origin of the thumb is a deformity in one individual. Unlike the concept > that an apelike hand gradually developed > an opposed thumb, it is far more likely an opposed thumb occurred in one > human, and was an advantageous development; > this one individual is our common ancestor. It is not feasible that the opposed thumb suddenly appeared like that, because it is not just a matter of the position of the thumb but also the co-development of the musculature and nervous system so that it can be manipulated properly. This is a gradual process. Not every mutation that can be imagined is actually genetically feasible. > This is a polygonal approach to evolution. I don't know what this means. > Rather than the gradual > changes I encountered in books on evolution, > I think evolution occurs more abruptly, turning corners. Some changes > make sense in several stages,like longer or shorter tails, but others > would only make sense with an abrupt development. It may look like that at first glance, but even the eye can be shown to be a product of gradual evolution. > Paul, I was hoping to discuss the chapter as a subject of interest, but > you seem determined to stamp it out. Perhaps I'm too fierce (again), but I believe some of Fuller's speculations were rather unwise and risk bringing his better ideas into disrepute. A more general aim is to emphasise that we would usually be much better off if we turned to serious investigation of how the world is/was rather than speculation. This obviously applies to the field of biology, where there is a mountainous amount of research which puts life in a very illuminating evolutionary perspective. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:58:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: <002601c2a97f$45f94520$0100a8c0@mshome.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 22/12/02 5:59, David Watkins at daviwat@COMCAST.NET wrote: >> Species don't really evolve towards anything: we can only say that kind of >> thing retrospectively, as evolution is not a teleological process. >> >> Paul Taylor > > I really don't see that this has been established. The arguments I have seen > against a teleological aspect to the evolutionary process seem to be more > philosophical than scientific. What we have is a very powerful explanatory system which shows how species evolve without having to involve very problematical and speculative notions about where we're all heading and whose purpose(s) are somehow implicated and embodied. The neo-Darwinian theory is algorithmic: it shows how the changes in species come about. There are two components: variation (genetic mutation) and selection (natural and sexual). There is no need to posit some kind of ambition or goal on the part of bacteria, fungi or flatworms; the evolutionary mechanism is sufficient. This is all expressed clearly and thoroughly in Dennett's book "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" . > I believe that Teilhard de Chardin, Ken > Wilber and numerous others make arguments for a teleological component that > are supported by science. From my perspective it seems that most of what the > neo-Darwinians conclude can be said only retrospectively. There is a teleonomic way of looking at things, e.g. speaking in terms of adaptations FOR cellulose digestion, night vision, etc. Teleological explanations are redundant in evolutionary theory. It is important to realize that what the neo-Darwinians conclude is not confined to discussions about processes happening millions of years ago. It explains phenomena we are surrounded by and contend with right now, such as bacterial resistance to antibiotics, ecological developments, and so on. > In some regards I see Wilber as taking the work of specialists and putting > it in a generalists framework. His four quadrant system looks at the > evolutionary process in all of its aspects. I believe that the difference > between Wilber and Fuller is that Wilber took a closer look at what the > specialist were saying and the context in which they were making there > conclusions. I don't know Wilber's work. Perhaps you could summarize it? > I don't believe we can reduce mind and culture to by products of material processes. If we accept the evolutionary account of how species came about, then there is good reason to believe that "mind" is precisely a product of material processes. We are part of the whole genealogy. > It seems > that more of the data is accounted for if we use a teleological model than > if we don't. The less data we look at, that is if we limit our generalized > approach, the more adequate the neo-Darwinian model works. I don't know that the teleological model accommodates more data, but it certainly accommodates many people's preferences or prejudices about human significance. Of course homo sapiens differs markedly from other species in respect of language, culture, intelligence and so on. This is fully recognized by evolutionary theorists, and Darwinism may throw more light on cultural history than is generally appreciated. Strategically, articulating Fuller's ideas in an anti-Darwinian sense would be a huge mistake, in my view. Fuller has many valuable, insightful, intriguing ideas, designs and proposals, but nothing is gained by trying to defend and preserve every speculation he made in areas beyond his knowledge or competence. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 18:31:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Critical Path Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Paul Taylor >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Critical Path >Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:58:09 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 I agree (just for one long second) to stamp it all out (Fuller, Medawar, de Chardin, killingry->livingry, etc.) just tell me what are the amounts of dollars needed to place in five stars hotel kind of treatment all weapons dealeres, drug dealers, wronglaw dealers, war dealers, pension fund evaporator dealers, all their families included, for ever and ever, just in order to have a secure next year Christmas party. I mean, I need to know how much money do I have to spare. Is it not anticipatory design financing? Best wishes for all Gerardo Tampico, México > > > Paul, I was hoping to discuss the chapter as a subject of interest, but > > you seem determined to stamp it out. > >Perhaps I'm too fierce (again), but I believe some of Fuller's speculations >were rather unwise and risk bringing his better ideas into disrepute. > >a mountainous amount of research which puts life in a very illuminating >evolutionary perspective. > > >Paul Taylor _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 11:49:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Critical Path In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Power precision grip. A trait humans alone have. Some monkeys have power grip, much stronger then humans. Some monkeys have precision grip, yet lacking much power at all. Humans are the only monkey that can lift a hammer, and aim it towards a nail well. I wish I could remember more from Physical anthropology. There are 4 things other unique traits to humans that allow us to have technology. There's also a name for these five things, which I can't remember off the top of my head. They include. Here are a few of the five things. bipedism power-precision grip bifocal vision (maybe) our survival mechanism, learning. I know it's our survival mechanism, I just don't remember if it's one of the five things on this list. Anyone remember the others, and the name for them? > From: Paul Taylor > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:58:09 +0000 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Critical Path > > on 22/12/02 12:19, Steve Miller at triorbtl@SOVER.NET wrote: > >> The human thumb is a good example of evolution. We all have them, with >> few exceptions. I think the most logical >> origin of the thumb is a deformity in one individual. Unlike the concept >> that an apelike hand gradually developed >> an opposed thumb, it is far more likely an opposed thumb occurred in one >> human, and was an advantageous development; >> this one individual is our common ancestor. > > It is not feasible that the opposed thumb suddenly appeared like that, > because it is not just a matter of the position of the thumb but also the > co-development of the musculature and nervous system so that it can be > manipulated properly. This is a gradual process. Not every mutation that can > be imagined is actually genetically feasible. > >> This is a polygonal approach to evolution. > > I don't know what this means. > > >> Rather than the gradual >> changes I encountered in books on evolution, >> I think evolution occurs more abruptly, turning corners. Some changes >> make sense in several stages,like longer or shorter tails, but others >> would only make sense with an abrupt development. > > It may look like that at first glance, but even the eye can be shown to be a > product of gradual evolution. > > >> Paul, I was hoping to discuss the chapter as a subject of interest, but >> you seem determined to stamp it out. > > Perhaps I'm too fierce (again), but I believe some of Fuller's speculations > were rather unwise and risk bringing his better ideas into disrepute. > > A more general aim is to emphasise that we would usually be much better off > if we turned to serious investigation of how the world is/was rather than > speculation. This obviously applies to the field of biology, where there is > a mountainous amount of research which puts life in a very illuminating > evolutionary perspective. > > > Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:56:39 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Just Two Cavities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for underscoring this site. I was wondering what to do with all those old toothbrushes :-). I'd been to this site before, but forgotten how awe-inspiring it was. Bob David Watkins wrote: >For anyone that didn't check out this link that Joe posted, here's a second >chance. Don't pass up this one and be sure check out the whole site. There >is some amazing and beautiful stuff here. > >Thanks Joe and Thanks George. > >Have a Peaceful Holiday > >Dave Watkins > > > >Toothbrush dome by George Hart: > > http://www.georgehart.com/sculpture/just-two-cavities.html > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 04:54:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Critical Path Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed vestigal hair; tear-ducts; vocaliztion of ideas. OK, the first two are not unknown, and the second is found in aquatic mammals. quoth: (maybe) our survival mechanism, learning. I know it's our survival mechanism, I just don't remember if it's one of the five things on this --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 05:00:05 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: n points on a sphere Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops; there is no penta-gamma-asteron, as that would be an archimedean solid; I was thinking of the tetragonal pyramid, or half-octahedron or pentasteron (but that has two kinds of vertices .-) thus saith: you can thank Bucky for that!-- they are *not* all of equilateral trigona, as with the pentagamma-asteron (or the decadeltahedron) for the first case of that. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 (87K) 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA (140K) 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS (26K) 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY (112K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 00:22:39 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Critical Path MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Regarding Paul's Comments, Evolution and Ken Wilber Paul makes a lot of good points. I have a different viewpoint on a number of issues, but not being an expert on evolution I am not prepared to make a clear statement of my view without looking up some reference on a number of points. With a busy holiday season in progress I will not be able to get to this for awhile. Meanwhile I will make just a few comments. > What we have is a very powerful explanatory system which shows how species > evolve without having to involve very problematical and speculative notions > about where we're all heading and whose purpose(s) are somehow implicated > and embodied. Often explanations that some find 'problematic and speculative' are rejected on the basis of Ockham's razor. I often find this to be problematic. From my perspective it seems that many reductionists ignore aspects of the data or proposed explanations of things on the basis of Ockham's razor. As far as I know Ockaham's razor has never been established scientifically. It is more like an assumed premise. I'm not saying that you are a reductionist Paul or that you are using Oackham's razor, but your choice of words sounds like that argument. "Ockham's razor: also referred to as the principle of parsimony, it holds that explanations should be as simple and economical as possible and that no more assumptions should be applied to an explanation than those that are absolutely necessary." > It is important to realize that what the neo-Darwinians conclude is not > confined to discussions about processes happening millions of years ago. It > explains phenomena we are surrounded by and contend with right now, such as > bacterial resistance to antibiotics, ecological developments, and so on. I believe this is a really important point and one that is totaly ignored by many of those who completely reject evolutionary theory. > I don't know Wilber's work. Perhaps you could summarize it? I will try, but this will take some time. Just a little bit now, more when I've had time to pull it together. I've only read about one and a half of his books plus a number of essays and comments by other writers. I am currently about half way through Sex, Ecology and Spirituality which is nearly 800 pages and it is volume 6 of his collected works. Therefore I am not really qualified to summarize his works, just the parts I've read and understood. Wilber uses what he calls 'orienting generalizations'. Based on a comprehensive study of many fields he came up with themes that emerge with little disagreement. By stringing together these generalizations from a variety of fields he say that one finds astounding and often profound conclusions. On the basis of this approach Wilber has come up with twenty tenets, patterns that seem to be true for evolution wherever it occurs, from matter to mind. The first tenet is: reality is composed of whole/parts, or 'holons' (Arthur Koestler coined the term holons). The remaining tenets build on this, the characteristics of holons and so forth; a whole atom is a part of a whole molecule, etc.; their characteristics as a part are not the same as their characteristics as a whole and so forth. This may sound simplistic at the beginning, but by the time he gets to tenet twenty it is all very complex. After cataloging and studying hundreds of developmental maps, biological, psychological, cognitive, spiritual and more, Wilber came up with a quadrant concept. The quadrant system has an axis that represents exterior/interior and another as singular/plural. He concludes that every holon is represented in each quadrant and that when we ignore any of the quadrants or overemphasize any quadrant we run into problems. Well, that's the quick summary of what I know about Wilber's work. After the holidays I will try to find time to go a bit further with it and try to relate my understanding of Wibler to the issues that Paul has identified. What I like about Wilber's writing is how he uses quotes from a wide range of people to demonstrate the points that he is making. Have a Peaceful Holiday Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 09:30:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Geodesic Math and How to Use It Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geodesic Math & How to Use It is currently available for only $25.00 at = All Bookstores.com: http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0520029240 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:25:53 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Science News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The lead articles of the last two issues of Science News seem to have a Bucky twist to them: The 12/14/02 issue has a picture of a photomultiplier that uses a classic geodesic breakdown to organize its surface elements. See http://www.sciencenews.org/20021214/fob1.asp The 12/21/02 issue has an article on the human origins debate. See http://www.sciencenews.org/20021221/fob1.asp Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:42:21 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Really? Maybe I got there late. Clicking the comparison shop button showed Barnes & Noble listing it for $25 but out of stock (just recently or for decades?) and an Amazon listing at $255. I was just curious. I already have a copy, but I recommend it a lot to others. Would be nice to see it available again at a reasonable price. Bob Joe S Moore wrote: >Geodesic Math & How to Use It is currently available for only $25.00 at All Bookstores.com: > > http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0520029240 > >============================== >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info <========== N E W >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >============================= > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 10:37:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It In-Reply-To: <3E09EDFD.7010102@channel1.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I found the same info. Does anyone know if you can get this book anywhere else? And for less than 255.00? > From: Bob Burkhardt > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:42:21 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It > > Really? Maybe I got there late. Clicking the comparison shop button > showed Barnes & Noble listing it for $25 but out of stock (just recently > or for decades?) and an Amazon listing at $255. I was just curious. > I already have a copy, but I recommend it a lot to others. Would be > nice to see it available again at a reasonable price. > > Bob > > Joe S Moore wrote: > >> Geodesic Math & How to Use It is currently available for only $25.00 at All >> Bookstores.com: >> >> http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0520029240 >> >> ============================== >> Joe S Moore >> joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >> http://buckminster.info <========== N E W >> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >> ============================= >> >> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:53:22 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Thank you Alice's In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, I'm not a Christian, yet we have a Christmas tree. I live in a society that celebrates Jesus's death with a rabbit, and his birth with buying things for people, translating giving one's spirit, into giving objects. And to make the celebration memorable, we kill a perfectly good tree, decorate it, and fill our homes with a wonderful smell for a couple of weeks. Buddha's deal was he fought against iconography, and now that's he's dead, how do Buddhists honor him? With a icon of Buddha. Go figure... We are living in interesting times. It hurts my heart to raise my four year old son in these times. The resistance humanity has towards truly growing up, can at times be overwhelming. When I discovered Bucky, and then looking deeper, discovered the math of Universe, like Alice in Wonderland, or Neo in the Matrix, with simply a new pair of glasses for looking at the world, everything changed. I know that for some of you that are on this list, you've gone down the hole too, many if not all of you years before I. And once committed, have found, that we can't return to blissful ignorance. Why us? Will one of us be able to tilt the scales, so humanity can move towards truth (Energenic Geometry), wisdom (comprehensive ephemeralization), and love (joy of Universe and all she's made)? I can only hope. All we can do is our best. To everyone on this list, I want to say I hope we succeed in getting humanity on track. I hope my son will have a world to adore, and with his children the same. May you all have a strong year. I admire so many who post on this list. You are an inspiration. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 06:59:07 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Critical Path MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Here is a message I sent a few days ago that didn't seem to make the list. At least I never got a copy. Will try it again. Regarding Paul's Comments, Evolution and Ken Wilber Paul makes a lot of good points. I have a different viewpoint on a number of issues, but not being an expert on evolution I am not prepared to make a clear statement of my view without looking up some reference on a number of points. With a busy holiday season in progress I will not be able to get to this for awhile. Meanwhile I will make just a few comments. > What we have is a very powerful explanatory system which shows how species > evolve without having to involve very problematical and speculative notions > about where we're all heading and whose purpose(s) are somehow implicated > and embodied. Often explanations that some find 'problematic and speculative' are rejected on the basis of Ockham's razor. I often find this to be problematic. From my perspective it seems that many reductionists ignore aspects of the data or proposed explanations of things on the basis of Ockham's razor. As far as I know Ockaham's razor has never been established scientifically. It is more like an assumed premise. I'm not saying that you are a reductionist Paul or that you are using Oackham's razor, but your choice of words sounds like that argument. "Ockham's razor: also referred to as the principle of parsimony, it holds that explanations should be as simple and economical as possible and that no more assumptions should be applied to an explanation than those that are absolutely necessary." > It is important to realize that what the neo-Darwinians conclude is not > confined to discussions about processes happening millions of years ago. It > explains phenomena we are surrounded by and contend with right now, such as > bacterial resistance to antibiotics, ecological developments, and so on. I believe this is a really important point and one that is totaly ignored by many of those who completely reject evolutionary theory. > I don't know Wilber's work. Perhaps you could summarize it? I will try, but this will take some time. Just a little bit now, more when I've had time to pull it together. I've only read about one and a half of his books plus a number of essays and comments by other writers. I am currently about half way through Sex, Ecology and Spirituality which is nearly 800 pages and it is volume 6 of his collected works. Therefore I am not really qualified to summarize his works, just the parts I've read and understood. Wilber uses what he calls 'orienting generalizations'. Based on a comprehensive study of many fields he came up with themes that emerge with little disagreement. By stringing together these generalizations from a variety of fields he say that one finds astounding and often profound conclusions. On the basis of this approach Wilber has come up with twenty tenets, patterns that seem to be true for evolution wherever it occurs, from matter to mind. The first tenet is: reality is composed of whole/parts, or 'holons' (Arthur Koestler coined the term holons). The remaining tenets build on this, the characteristics of holons and so forth; a whole atom is a part of a whole molecule, etc.; their characteristics as a part are not the same as their characteristics as a whole and so forth. This may sound simplistic at the beginning, but by the time he gets to tenet twenty it is all very complex. After cataloging and studying hundreds of developmental maps, biological, psychological, cognitive, spiritual and more, Wilber came up with a quadrant concept. The quadrant system has an axis that represents exterior/interior and another as singular/plural. He concludes that every holon is represented in each quadrant and that when we ignore any of the quadrants or overemphasize any quadrant we run into problems. Well, that's the quick summary of what I know about Wilber's work. After the holidays I will try to find time to go a bit further with it and try to relate my understanding of Wibler to the issues that Paul has identified. What I like about Wilber's writing is how he uses quotes from a wide range of people to demonstrate the points that he is making. Have a Peaceful Holiday Dave Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:00:06 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I may have an extra copy of Geodesic Math & How to Use It, which I will give free to anyone who will tell me how to use it! I found it a steep gradient. It starts off "assum(ing) that the reader's mathematics is about where mine was when Bucky Fuller's proximity got me interested in this subject: algebra and high-school trig" and then proceeds to invoke a calculus solution in Chapter 1. It then invites the reader to construct complicated tensegrities as a preliminary step. One has the disturbing sense of being in the company of a vastly superior being. Come to think of it, one had this sense when in the company of Bucky himself. But Bucky had a way of validating one wherever they happened to be, whereas Kenner, no doubt unintentionally, made me feel like a dope. But I should admit that I successfully translated Kenner's spherical coordinates for an 8-frequency sphere into chord factors, and made an impressive model. After getting out of the hospital. Bob Sanderson >I found the same info. Does anyone know if you can get this book anywhere >else? And for less than 255.00? > > > From: Bob Burkhardt > > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > > Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:42:21 -0500 > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It > > > > Really? Maybe I got there late. Clicking the comparison shop button > > showed Barnes & Noble listing it for $25 but out of stock (just recently > > or for decades?) and an Amazon listing at $255. I was just curious. > > I already have a copy, but I recommend it a lot to others. Would be > > nice to see it available again at a reasonable price. > > > > Bob > > > > Joe S Moore wrote: > > > >> Geodesic Math & How to Use It is currently available for only >$25.00 at All > >> Bookstores.com: > >> > >> http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0520029240 > >> > >> ============================== > >> Joe S Moore > >> joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > >> http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > >> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > >> ============================= > >> > >> > >> > >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:22:12 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'll take it Bob, and I'll do my best to help you understand it, as well as myself. I've heard this book is easier to understand then Synergetics I & II. But until I see it, I can't say for sure. And whether I like it or not, when I talk to people about some of Bucky's materiel, I've heard I bring it across to people in a way they can digest better. Perhaps it's my experience in information architecture, which is about taking a lot of information, and arranging it in a way that a person can in a short time (under 30 seconds) say, "Ah, I get it." Who knows. If there's one thing I don't care for, is people who take knowledge, and by giving it to another in a most complex way, feel smarter about themselves. It's great for their ego, and pretty tough for the rest of us... There's also a book at BFI I just found out about- Product ID: 136 Title: A Fuller Explanation - The Synergetic Geometry of R. Buckminster Fuller by Amy C. Edmondson Description: Edmondson clarifies Fuller's synergetic geometry in conventional language and mathematics and illuminates his effort to employ synergetics as a strategy for human survival. A cardstock photocopy. Price: $29.95 Anyone read this one? Any opinions? > From: Bob > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:00:06 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It > > I may have an extra copy of Geodesic Math & How to Use It, which I > will give free to anyone who will tell me how to use it! > > I found it a steep gradient. It starts off "assum(ing) that the > reader's mathematics is about where mine was when Bucky Fuller's > proximity got me interested in this subject: algebra and high-school > trig" and then proceeds to invoke a calculus solution in Chapter 1. > It then invites the reader to construct complicated tensegrities as a > preliminary step. One has the disturbing sense of being in the > company of a vastly superior being. > > Come to think of it, one had this sense when in the company of Bucky > himself. But Bucky had a way of validating one wherever they happened > to be, whereas Kenner, no doubt unintentionally, made me feel like a > dope. > > But I should admit that I successfully translated Kenner's spherical > coordinates for an 8-frequency sphere into chord factors, and made an > impressive model. After getting out of the hospital. > > Bob Sanderson > > > >> I found the same info. Does anyone know if you can get this book anywhere >> else? And for less than 255.00? >> >>> From: Bob Burkhardt >>> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >>> >>> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:42:21 -0500 >>> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It >>> >>> Really? Maybe I got there late. Clicking the comparison shop button >>> showed Barnes & Noble listing it for $25 but out of stock (just recently >>> or for decades?) and an Amazon listing at $255. I was just curious. >>> I already have a copy, but I recommend it a lot to others. Would be >>> nice to see it available again at a reasonable price. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> Joe S Moore wrote: >>> >>>> Geodesic Math & How to Use It is currently available for only >> $25.00 at All >>>> Bookstores.com: >>>> >>>> http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0520029240 >>>> >>>> ============================== >>>> Joe S Moore >>>> joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >>>> http://buckminster.info <========== N E W >>>> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >>>> ============================= >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:26:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hmmmm, interesting. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0817633383/qid=1040927042/sr=1 -1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4686838-9427312?v=glance&s=books > From: Bob > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:00:06 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It > > I may have an extra copy of Geodesic Math & How to Use It, which I > will give free to anyone who will tell me how to use it! > > I found it a steep gradient. It starts off "assum(ing) that the > reader's mathematics is about where mine was when Bucky Fuller's > proximity got me interested in this subject: algebra and high-school > trig" and then proceeds to invoke a calculus solution in Chapter 1. > It then invites the reader to construct complicated tensegrities as a > preliminary step. One has the disturbing sense of being in the > company of a vastly superior being. > > Come to think of it, one had this sense when in the company of Bucky > himself. But Bucky had a way of validating one wherever they happened > to be, whereas Kenner, no doubt unintentionally, made me feel like a > dope. > > But I should admit that I successfully translated Kenner's spherical > coordinates for an 8-frequency sphere into chord factors, and made an > impressive model. After getting out of the hospital. > > Bob Sanderson > > > >> I found the same info. Does anyone know if you can get this book anywhere >> else? And for less than 255.00? >> >>> From: Bob Burkhardt >>> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >>> >>> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:42:21 -0500 >>> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It >>> >>> Really? Maybe I got there late. Clicking the comparison shop button >>> showed Barnes & Noble listing it for $25 but out of stock (just recently >>> or for decades?) and an Amazon listing at $255. I was just curious. >>> I already have a copy, but I recommend it a lot to others. Would be >>> nice to see it available again at a reasonable price. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> Joe S Moore wrote: >>> >>>> Geodesic Math & How to Use It is currently available for only >> $25.00 at All >>>> Bookstores.com: >>>> >>>> http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0520029240 >>>> >>>> ============================== >>>> Joe S Moore >>>> joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >>>> http://buckminster.info <========== N E W >>>> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >>>> ============================= >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:37:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Even more interesting, it's (A Fuller Explanation - The Synergetic Geometry of R. Buckminster Fuller by Amy C. Edmondson ) is online here- http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html I'll take it Bob, and I'll do my best to help you understand it, as well as myself. I've heard this book is easier to understand then Synergetics I & II. But until I see it, I can't say for sure. And whether I like it or not, when I talk to people about some of Bucky's materiel, I've heard I bring it across to people in a way they can digest better. Perhaps it's my experience in information architecture, which is about taking a lot of information, and arranging it in a way that a person can in a short time (under 30 seconds) say, "Ah, I get it." Who knows. If there's one thing I don't care for, is people who take knowledge, and by giving it to another in a most complex way, feel smarter about themselves. It's great for their ego, and pretty tough for the rest of us... There's also a book at BFI I just found out about- Product ID: 136 Title: A Fuller Explanation - The Synergetic Geometry of R. Buckminster Fuller by Amy C. Edmondson Description: Edmondson clarifies Fuller's synergetic geometry in conventional language and mathematics and illuminates his effort to employ synergetics as a strategy for human survival. A cardstock photocopy. Price: $29.95 Anyone read this one? Any opinions? > From: Bob > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:00:06 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It > > I may have an extra copy of Geodesic Math & How to Use It, which I > will give free to anyone who will tell me how to use it! > > I found it a steep gradient. It starts off "assum(ing) that the > reader's mathematics is about where mine was when Bucky Fuller's > proximity got me interested in this subject: algebra and high-school > trig" and then proceeds to invoke a calculus solution in Chapter 1. > It then invites the reader to construct complicated tensegrities as a > preliminary step. One has the disturbing sense of being in the > company of a vastly superior being. > > Come to think of it, one had this sense when in the company of Bucky > himself. But Bucky had a way of validating one wherever they happened > to be, whereas Kenner, no doubt unintentionally, made me feel like a > dope. > > But I should admit that I successfully translated Kenner's spherical > coordinates for an 8-frequency sphere into chord factors, and made an > impressive model. After getting out of the hospital. > > Bob Sanderson > > > >> I found the same info. Does anyone know if you can get this book anywhere >> else? And for less than 255.00? >> >>> From: Bob Burkhardt >>> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >>> >>> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:42:21 -0500 >>> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It >>> >>> Really? Maybe I got there late. Clicking the comparison shop button >>> showed Barnes & Noble listing it for $25 but out of stock (just recently >>> or for decades?) and an Amazon listing at $255. I was just curious. >>> I already have a copy, but I recommend it a lot to others. Would be >>> nice to see it available again at a reasonable price. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> Joe S Moore wrote: >>> >>>> Geodesic Math & How to Use It is currently available for only >> $25.00 at All >>>> Bookstores.com: >>>> >>>> http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0520029240 >>>> >>>> ============================== >>>> Joe S Moore >>>> joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >>>> http://buckminster.info <========== N E W >>>> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >>>> ============================= >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 20:31:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed mister "Rybo," you seem to be a pursuing a "type-one error," which has some thing to do with a "null hypothesis," unless it's a beeg phat mystaque. in other words, the "sqaure" root of that ration has nothing to do with the integer, 14, and thus you get no cigar, even to explode. NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html thus quoth: >The electron-muon mass ratio is 206.768262. > >The Square Root of 206.768262 is 14.37943886 >i.e. 14.37943886 times 14.37943886 equals 206.768262. > >I don't see any significant ways of relating polyhedra to any particle >this way however, > >--since my intuition has been leaning for sometime towards a connection >between the 6-great-circled duo-tet-cube and the electron, it is >interesting to note that the SQRT of electron-muon mass ratio is close >to the number of vertexes(14) of the duo-tet-cube and the rhombic >dodecahedron, and/or the 14 faces of the VE/cub.-oct., the truncated >tetrahedron etc. > >Does anybody out there see any way that the SQRT number can be used to >relate a polyhedron and the electron-muon mass ratio? > > >It is also interesting to note that a (alpha/fine structure constant) >being, .007297350, times the 5040 face angle degrees of the duo-tet-cube >equals 36.778644, which, is also close to the 36 edges of the >6-great-circled duo-tet-cube. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 20:37:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Critical Path Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops; that was "voluntary" vocalization, as far as that can be dystinguished from invluntary grunting, groaning or barking ... occuring primarily amongst *marine* mammals (although this particular dystinction may apply to freshwater ihabiotants, two .-) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html thus quoth: >vestigal hair; tear-ducts; vocaliztion of ideas. > OK, the first two are not unknown, and >the second is found in aquatic mammals. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 20:50:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed how does your following statement gybe with your needing some one to "tell you," how?... while I agree with your initial prognosis, having had the book & only made the "VE" tensegrity out of dowels & safety-wire (stainless steel, as per the suggestion), it is also true that there's nothing more difficult than the pythagorean theorem, as with _S_. PS: that tensegrity makes a great tree-topping "star," if you can find a big-enough tree & how to climb it! thus quoth: But I should admit that I successfully translated Kenner's spherical coordinates for an 8-frequency sphere into chord factors, and made an impressive model. After getting out of the hospital. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB (67K) 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K)http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 22:40:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Thank you Alice's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Leifur Thor >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Thank you Alice's >Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:53:22 -0800 Hi Leifur, I wish you and your family the best of the seasons and the best for next year. >Well, I'm not a Christian, yet we have a Christmas tree. I live in a >society everybody can even try catholicism for a while. Bod Dylan would have not composed "precious angel", "man gave names to all the animals", etc. if hadn´t been catholic for a while. Bach did not mind to serve a catholic prince when he composed the b minor mass. Quincy would say thtat you can even try Bukafka's Buckanesque, but right now he must be in Tijuana teaching dome science to some señoritas. I do agree with you about war against ignorance, but that war must be comprehensive and that includes faith in the wisdom of the most incomprehensible facts, like the wisdom of plain people. Some times things are obscured by a mountain of words but truth is the very same cuboctahedron of cuboctahedrons: you push it and it jumps everywhere. And certainly our sons and grandsons will have an ever better world to adore and construct. Best wishes for everybody Gerardo Tampico, México >that celebrates Jesus's death with a rabbit, and his birth with buying >things for people, translating giving one's spirit, into giving objects. >And >to make the celebration memorable, we kill a perfectly good tree, decorate >it, and fill our homes with a wonderful smell for a couple of weeks. > >Buddha's deal was he fought against iconography, and now that's he's dead, >how do Buddhists honor him? With a icon of Buddha. Go figure... > >We are living in interesting times. It hurts my heart to raise my four year >old son in these times. The resistance humanity has towards truly growing >up, can at times be overwhelming. > >When I discovered Bucky, and then looking deeper, discovered the math of >Universe, like Alice in Wonderland, or Neo in the Matrix, with simply a new >pair of glasses for looking at the world, everything changed. > >I know that for some of you that are on this list, you've gone down the >hole >too, many if not all of you years before I. And once committed, have found, >that we can't return to blissful ignorance. > >Why us? Will one of us be able to tilt the scales, so humanity can move >towards truth (Energenic Geometry), wisdom (comprehensive >ephemeralization), >and love (joy of Universe and all she's made)? I can only hope. > >All we can do is our best. > >To everyone on this list, I want to say I hope we succeed in getting >humanity on track. I hope my son will have a world to adore, and with his >children the same. > >May you all have a strong year. I admire so many who post on this list. You >are an inspiration. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:00:07 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Critical Path Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear friends, what (or who) is the arrow head of evolution right now? that is what I want to know. I would expect a www site pointing to other sites. I would not expect a linkless site. Raymond Kurzweil tried by hardware (the Kurzweill reading machine for blind people) but was surpassed by the software developed by blind folks at Henter Joyce. As far as they do not point to each other, they transfer disability from one side to another (like a ping pong ball) Have you ever seen a person in an automated wheelchair struggling in the doors of a kneeling bus, and nobody (the driver or passengers) stand up to give him a hand. That is what I call disability transference. The same thing happens with any invention that does not comprehensively accounts for what is going to happen with the displaced by that invention, in the "name of evolution" progress or whatever. I am no less than Dubai's chairperson but I do not think that hypercars are being done for the "advancement" of humanity as a whole (me included)in the first place. I feel human but I feel that I am not in the list of soon to be hypercar owners. Is it my old self esteem thing? Best wishes Gerardo García Tampico, Tam. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 20:14:06 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: test MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT test ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 04:46:04 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I don't know what the "null hypothesis" is, either, but it's always clear from the context, that a type-one error is the kind wherein the promulgator of the hypothesis, clearly to any one with any knowledge in the "field," obviously may have better hypotheses -- maybe even in *any* other field. if you study *any* mubertheory, you'll soon realize that (exactly) 14 is so far from (approx.) 14.37943886, as to be simply nonsequiter; "end of story!... the same goes gor 14 and 3/4. as an elementary problem in "modular arithemetic," what is the 'magical number' that "Platfrom 9 and 3/4" refers to? (I didn't give the answer, of course, on my my susite about harry-the-Bad-Potter .-) sreiosly, though, Bucky's qua-numbertheoretical attempts, ubnder "sublimeley rememberable Schaherazade numbers," is the kind of thing that I mean, and is also the basis of "teh decimals," taht you try to pound into some sort of meaning. if you want to know, How the Calculator Works, it's just McLaurin's Series! thus quoth: My calculator disagrees with you. I trust the calculator more than you oppinion. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 04:50:08 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm not sure that it was clear from the article (I just read that far), but it could be because of increased precipitation (snowfall, probably .-) thus quoth: The new base is being built to replace previous bases that are already beneath the snow, with the original 1957 base about 10 metres under and the current dome base also becoming buried. --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 21 -- OMAHA (25K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 05:00:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: n points on a sphere Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed here's sone thing that O found on usenet: Re: 8 electrons on sphere (Re: What am I?) View: Complete Thread (6 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: sci.math Date: 1997/10/07 In a previous article, ba137@lafn.org (Brian Hutchings) says: ah, sorry; right, the "top" and "bottom" are not really tetragonal -- not flat, but creased to make 2 triga; therefore, the shape might be the dodecadeltahedron, of 12 equilateral facets. I seem to recall that this might have been noted (if not the name) in one of martin Gardner's books. >there was a great article on this, for higher "n", >in Mathematical Intelligencer of a few months' ago; >some thing about spirals! > the shape that was referred to, is, >tetragonal (or square) antiprism (and the octahedron is, >trigonal antiprism .-) > prof.Elkies, could you post that smallest Diophantine solution, >xxxx + yyyy + zzzz = wwww ??... I just love that. -- "*You* don't have to be a rocket-scientist; thanks!" --my college counsellor "Time is the only dimension." --Bucky Fuller --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:03:53 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Subject: understanding math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency sphere model using the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and How to Use it" while maintaining that I found the book overwhelming. I determined to read every sentence in the book, resisting the impulse to throw it across the room, and understanding almost nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a mathematician, but I think an English teacher, did not help. The big breakthrough for me was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided into the formula he also provided: d = sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a complicated-looking formula in order to derive chord factors, probably puts me in the top .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly impressed my friends. And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with something over 1700 struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn where I have my office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia aluminum rod around the equator, which is suspended by 5 invisible pieces of fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know what you're doing in order to accomplish something! Bob Sanderson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:22:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: understanding math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob- Did you link to a picture of the model? I like to see it. Is it spherical? How many different length struts were there? Dick --- Bob wrote: > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency sphere > model using > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and How to > Use it" > while maintaining that I found the book overwhelming. > > I determined to read every sentence in the book, > resisting the > impulse to throw it across the room, and understanding > almost > nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a > mathematician, but > I think an English teacher, did not help. The big > breakthrough for me > was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided into > the formula > he also provided: > d = > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a > complicated-looking > formula in order to derive chord factors, probably puts > me in the top > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly impressed > my friends. > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with something > over 1700 > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn where I > have my > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia > aluminum rod > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 invisible > pieces of > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know what > you're doing > in order to accomplish something! > > Bob Sanderson __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:29:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Geodesic Math and How to Use It In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Leifur Thor wrote: > Even more interesting, it's (A Fuller Explanation - The > Synergetic Geometry > of R. Buckminster Fuller by Amy C. Edmondson ) is online > here- > > http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html > There's also a book at BFI I just found out about- > > Product ID: 136 Title: A Fuller Explanation - The > Synergetic Geometry of > R. Buckminster Fuller by Amy C. Edmondson > > Description: Edmondson clarifies Fuller's synergetic > geometry in > conventional language and mathematics and illuminates his > effort to employ > synergetics as a strategy for human survival. A cardstock > photocopy. > > Price: $29.95 > > Anyone read this one? > > Any opinions? It is great. I recommend it. Absolutly no calculus. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 20:24:23 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: understanding math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1700 struts? How did you put that many stuts in an 8v? Bob wrote: > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency sphere model using > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and How to Use it" > while maintaining that I found the book overwhelming. > > I determined to read every sentence in the book, resisting the > impulse to throw it across the room, and understanding almost > nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a mathematician, but > I think an English teacher, did not help. The big breakthrough for me > was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided into the formula > he also provided: > d = sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a complicated-looking > formula in order to derive chord factors, probably puts me in the top > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly impressed my friends. > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with something over 1700 > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn where I have my > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia aluminum rod > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 invisible pieces of > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know what you're doing > in order to accomplish something! > > Bob Sanderson > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 07:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Melting ice beneath. Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I'm not sure that it was clear from the article > (I just read that far), but > it could be because of increased precipitation > (snowfall, probably .-) > > thus quoth: > The new base is being built to replace previous bases that are already > beneath the snow, with the original 1957 base about 10 metres under and > the current dome base also becoming buried. > > --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... > The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols > of the Elders of Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): > 21 -- OMAHA (25K) > 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 07:06:17 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: understanding math In-Reply-To: <3E0CFD47.6010801@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii (10x8x8)+2=642 vertexes. Edges=3(n-2)=3x640=1920 struts. No? --- Steve Miller wrote: > 1700 struts? How did you put that many stuts in an 8v? > > Bob wrote: > > > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency > sphere model using > > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and How > to Use it" > > while maintaining that I found the book overwhelming. > > > > I determined to read every sentence in the book, > resisting the > > impulse to throw it across the room, and understanding > almost > > nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a > mathematician, but > > I think an English teacher, did not help. The big > breakthrough for me > > was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided into > the formula > > he also provided: > > d = > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a > complicated-looking > > formula in order to derive chord factors, probably puts > me in the top > > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly > impressed my friends. > > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with something > over 1700 > > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn where I > have my > > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia > aluminum rod > > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 invisible > pieces of > > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know > what you're doing > > in order to accomplish something! > > > > Bob Sanderson > > > > > -- > Formactive: > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 18:48:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Bucky's claims for the IVM are way-too generic for anyone to be "caught" in them (other than his typical followers being so short on constructive geometry, as Bucky was probably not, so much). as for Rybo's calculations, I don't think you have a clue as to what he means, even if he does, and I surely do not. as for your "non-orthogonal U.," you're tinkering doesn't constitute a hypothesis, as of this date, that I can see. Rybo thinks that 14.34567 is related to 14, exactly, which it simply cannot be til *shown* to be, some how, if that is possible. it's easy to show that they are not arithmetically related, because Stevin's "decimals" are nothing but an embodiment of fractions (with denominators being powers of ten; that is, 1400000/100000 isn't the same as 1434567/100000 ... doh ?-) NB: Hotmail's put my sig on top; sorry! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html thus quoth: >Rybo may be congratulated for going to the "icosasphere"'s various >circularities, but since those are still created by tracings of the VE, >he'll stay blind. >The universe they're trying to model-and-match numbers to, is >_not_orthogonal_. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 13:55:24 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: understanding math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. Seemed like a lot when I first saw it. The 8v dome I made years ago had 240 diamond panels. But (and that's a big but) it was a Triacon, a hemisphere and a panel dome. Each aspect reduced the numbers. Dick Fischbeck wrote: > (10x8x8)+2=642 vertexes. Edges=3(n-2)=3x640=1920 struts. > No? > > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > >>1700 struts? How did you put that many stuts in an 8v? >> >>Bob wrote: >> >> >>>Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency >>> >>sphere model using >> >>>the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and How >>> >>to Use it" >> >>>while maintaining that I found the book overwhelming. >>> >>>I determined to read every sentence in the book, >>> >>resisting the >> >>>impulse to throw it across the room, and understanding >>> >>almost >> >>>nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a >>> >>mathematician, but >> >>>I think an English teacher, did not help. The big >>> >>breakthrough for me >> >>>was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided into >>> >>the formula >> >>>he also provided: >>>d = >>> > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > >>>Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a >>> >>complicated-looking >> >>>formula in order to derive chord factors, probably puts >>> >>me in the top >> >>>.0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly >>> >>impressed my friends. >> >>>And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with something >>> >>over 1700 >> >>>struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn where I >>> >>have my >> >>>office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia >>> >>aluminum rod >> >>>around the equator, which is suspended by 5 invisible >>> >>pieces of >> >>>fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know >>> >>what you're doing >> >>>in order to accomplish something! >>> >>>Bob Sanderson >>> >>> >> >>-- >>Formactive: >>http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 18:59:22 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "type-one error" is a joke, although it also has one or two or three technical definitions. just to reiterate on my example, it's easy to show that "fourteen & one quarter" has *no* relationship to exactly 14, other than the obvious ones of modular arithmetic, if any. that is why Rybo's "findings" are so silly, although it's possible that he will recover modular arithmetic, eventually, by banging on his calculators. thus quoth: if you study *any* mubertheory, you'll soon realize that (exactly) 14 is so far from (approx.) 14.37943886, as to be simply nonsequiter; "end of story!... the same goes gor 14 and 3/4. as an elementary problem in "modular arithemetic," what is the 'magical number' that "Platfrom 9 and 3/4" refers to? under "sublimeley rememberable Schaherazade numbers," How the Calculator Works, it's just McLaurin's Series! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:00:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops: also, the problem of "what does Platform 9-3/4 stand for" is a avery simple problem in mod.arith.; just figure oit out! "type-one error" is a joke, although it also has one or two or three technical definitions. just to reiterate on my example, it's easy to show that "fourteen & one quarter" has *no* relationship to exactly 14, other than the obvious ones of modular arithmetic, if any. that is why Rybo's "findings" are so silly, although it's possible that he will recover modular arithmetic, eventually, by banging on his calculators. thus quoth: if you study *any* mubertheory, you'll soon realize that (exactly) 14 is so far from (approx.) 14.37943886, as to be simply nonsequiter; "end of story!... the same goes gor 14 and 3/4. as an elementary problem in "modular arithemetic," what is the 'magical number' that "Platfrom 9 and 3/4" refers to? under "sublimeley rememberable Schaherazade numbers," How the Calculator Works, it's just McLaurin's Series! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 15:13:30 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Foerd Ames Subject: Re: Thank you Alice's In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good words, Leifur. It's a tough battle. Foerd Ames Ocean Wave Energy Company 20 Burnside Street Bristol, RI 02809 USA email: foerd@owec.com web site: www.owec.com voice and fax: 401-253-4488 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 12:17:28 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: geodeslexia Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For a closed surface with no holes in it, can we say we have 720 degrees of curvature? I'm thinking that curvature is an excess or deficit of surface about a vertex, where no curvature is a plane. Curvature can by measured at any location on the surface. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 21:37:47 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) In-Reply-To: <3E0D995E.7010209@sover.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If it ever was apparent for the need of a mobile structure, this is it... Hey, how about getting another better dome flown in thereby fulfilling another of Bucky's dreams, a housing unit flown by dirigible to the north pole. Probably best to skip the bomb, crater, foundation part though... > From: Steve Miller > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 07:30:22 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) > > Melting ice beneath. > > Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > >> I'm not sure that it was clear from the article >> (I just read that far), but >> it could be because of increased precipitation >> (snowfall, probably .-) >> >> thus quoth: >> The new base is being built to replace previous bases that are already >> beneath the snow, with the original 1957 base about 10 metres under and >> the current dome base also becoming buried. >> >> --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... >> The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols >> of the Elders of Kyoto: >> (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ >> BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. >> Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): >> 21 -- OMAHA (25K) >> 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) >> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. >> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474 >> &SU= >> http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspampro >> tection_3mf >> > > > -- > Formactive: > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 10:03:50 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's a pretty big dome. A dirigible the size of the moon could probably move it. Zeppellin is still in business, maybe they woud be interested. Leifur Thor wrote: > If it ever was apparent for the need of a mobile structure, this is it... > > Hey, how about getting another better dome flown in thereby fulfilling > another of Bucky's dreams, a housing unit flown by dirigible to the north > pole. Probably best to skip the bomb, crater, foundation part though... > > >>From: Steve Miller >>Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 07:30:22 -0500 >>To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) >> >>Melting ice beneath. >> >>Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: >> >> >>>I'm not sure that it was clear from the article >>>(I just read that far), but >>>it could be because of increased precipitation >>>(snowfall, probably .-) >>> >>>thus quoth: >>>The new base is being built to replace previous bases that are already >>>beneath the snow, with the original 1957 base about 10 metres under and >>>the current dome base also becoming buried. >>> >>>--A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... >>>The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols >>>of the Elders of Kyoto: >>>(FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ >>>BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. >>>Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): >>>21 -- OMAHA (25K) >>>25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) >>>http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. >>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474 >>>&SU= >>>http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspampro >>>tection_3mf >>> >>> >> >>-- >>Formactive: >>http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ >> > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:29:33 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Lich Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Once the structure displaces its weight in ice, won't it stop sinking? If this is true, the base of the dome should be redesigned more like a float. However, the reason for this message is other than the topic above. Does anyone out there have chord factors for domes of higher frequency than 6 for icosahedron, class I, method I, as set forth, long ago in Dome Book 2? If you have such information, please send it to me or if you think others might benefit (and I certainly do), put it up on this "bulletin board" The reason for such high frequency is to allow removal of triangles compromising the hexagons and pentagons such that a pseudo, warped honeycomb structure is achieved. Such structures exist so such information must be out there someplace. Of course, if face angles, axial angles, and dihedral angles are available, they are also welcome. My notecard stock models using 5 peel patterns each (hemisphere) can get by on just chord factors but there is never too much knowledge. I hope to hear from some of you soon. Thanks. Steve Miller wrote: > It's a pretty big dome. A dirigible the size of the moon could probably > move it. Zeppellin is still in business, maybe they woud be interested. > > Leifur Thor wrote: > > > If it ever was apparent for the need of a mobile structure, this is it... > > > > Hey, how about getting another better dome flown in thereby fulfilling > > another of Bucky's dreams, a housing unit flown by dirigible to the north > > pole. Probably best to skip the bomb, crater, foundation part though... > > > > > >>From: Steve Miller > >>Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >> > >>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > >>Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 07:30:22 -0500 > >>To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) > >> > >>Melting ice beneath. > >> > >>Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > >> > >> > >>>I'm not sure that it was clear from the article > >>>(I just read that far), but > >>>it could be because of increased precipitation > >>>(snowfall, probably .-) > >>> > >>>thus quoth: > >>>The new base is being built to replace previous bases that are already > >>>beneath the snow, with the original 1957 base about 10 metres under and > >>>the current dome base also becoming buried. > >>> > >>>--A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... > >>>The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols > >>>of the Elders of Kyoto: > >>>(FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > >>>BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > >>>Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): > >>>21 -- OMAHA (25K) > >>>25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) > >>>http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > >>> > >>>_________________________________________________________________ > >>>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. > >>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474 > >>>&SU= > >>>http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspampro > >>>tection_3mf > >>> > >>> > >> > >>-- > >>Formactive: > >>http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ > >> > > > > -- > Formactive: > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:23:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: VOGLIAMO RIATTIVARE QUESTO NEWSGROUP ? Comments: To: biagio di carlo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Biagio, I like your new web site! Might I suggest that you post the table of contents of your book. Please note my new web site address below: ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================ ----- Original Message ----- From: "biagio di carlo" Newsgroups: alt.bucky-fuller Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:08 AM Subject: VOGLIAMO RIATTIVARE QUESTO NEWSGROUP ? > Please give a look to my website BIAGIO DI CARLO > http://digilander.libero.it/geodesic/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:48:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: 2001-953273023-1-9 Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Buckminster Fuller Institute's Tax Return for 2001 from Guidestar: http://documents.guidestar.org/2001/953/273/2001-953273023-1-9.pdf =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:55:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: 2001-330473889-1-9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Global Energy Network Institute's tax return for 2001 from Guidestar: http://documents.guidestar.org/2001/330/473/2001-330473889-1-9.pdf =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:31:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodeslexia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the proof that I've seen is elementary, not requiring calculus, as I recall. and, 720 degrees is generally considered to be equal to 4pi, not 2pi. thus quoth: Is there a proof of Gauss-Bonnet without calculus and where 720 is substituted for 2pi? I can not find it yet. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:37:49 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this was established in the article, or the journal qutoed-from? thus quoth: Melting ice beneath. thus saith: >I'm not sure that it was clear from the article >(I just read that far), but >it could be because of increased precipitation >(snowfall, probably .-) --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's reading, not just his ideal! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned for this "clash o'civs," before 911! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX www.larouchepub.com --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:48:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: streamlined generator for watermans by Paul Bourke Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed that "and add 16" didn't work for very long, on the list of numbers that were quoted -- the ones for the Missing dystances to sphere-centers, of course. also, your friend's assertion about integer multiples of root-2 is out o'whack; eh? thus quoth: One way to obtain all these values...start at 14 and then add by 16's...or any of those numbers times 4,9,16,25,etc http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/polyhedra/waterman/ thus quoth: A subset of the infinite CCP packing can formed by including only those sphere centers within a certain radius from the origin. If a integer is used to index these subsets, call it root, then if the allowed radii are integer multiples of sqrt(2 root) then the convex hull formed from the set of sphere centers is known as a Waterman polyhedra. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, so does Usama's MacJihad: "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:47:53 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Blair Wolfram Subject: Re: understanding math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are correct Dick. Add to these totals, 1280 as the number of triangle faces. Blair Dick Fischbeck wrote: > (10x8x8)+2=642 vertexes. Edges=3(n-2)=3x640=1920 struts. > No? > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > > 1700 struts? How did you put that many stuts in an 8v? > > > > Bob wrote: > > > > > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency > > sphere model using > > > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and How > > to Use it" > > > while maintaining that I found the book overwhelming. > > > > > > I determined to read every sentence in the book, > > resisting the > > > impulse to throw it across the room, and understanding > > almost > > > nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a > > mathematician, but > > > I think an English teacher, did not help. The big > > breakthrough for me > > > was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided into > > the formula > > > he also provided: > > > d = > > > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > > > > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a > > complicated-looking > > > formula in order to derive chord factors, probably puts > > me in the top > > > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly > > impressed my friends. > > > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with something > > over 1700 > > > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn where I > > have my > > > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia > > aluminum rod > > > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 invisible > > pieces of > > > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know > > what you're doing > > > in order to accomplish something! > > > > > > Bob Sanderson > > > > > > > > > -- > > Formactive: > > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:40:32 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Blair Wolfram Subject: Re: understanding math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are 20 different chord factors for a class 1 method 1, 6 frequency geodesic sphere. Blair Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Bob- Did you link to a picture of the model? I like to see > it. Is it spherical? How many different length struts were > there? > > Dick > --- Bob wrote: > > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency sphere > > model using > > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and How to > > Use it" > > while maintaining that I found the book overwhelming. > > > > I determined to read every sentence in the book, > > resisting the > > impulse to throw it across the room, and understanding > > almost > > nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a > > mathematician, but > > I think an English teacher, did not help. The big > > breakthrough for me > > was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided into > > the formula > > he also provided: > > d = > > > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a > > complicated-looking > > formula in order to derive chord factors, probably puts > > me in the top > > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly impressed > > my friends. > > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with something > > over 1700 > > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn where I > > have my > > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia > > aluminum rod > > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 invisible > > pieces of > > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know what > > you're doing > > in order to accomplish something! > > > > Bob Sanderson > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:45:59 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Blair Wolfram Subject: Re: understanding math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Make that an 8 frequency geodesic sphere. oops. Blair Blair Wolfram wrote: > There are 20 different chord factors for a class 1 method 1, 6 > frequency geodesic sphere. > > Blair > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > Bob- Did you link to a picture of the model? I like to see > > it. Is it spherical? How many different length struts were > > there? > > > > Dick > > --- Bob wrote: > > > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency sphere > > > model using > > > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and How to > > > Use it" > > > while maintaining that I found the book overwhelming. > > > > > > I determined to read every sentence in the book, > > > resisting the > > > impulse to throw it across the room, and understanding > > > almost > > > nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a > > > mathematician, but > > > I think an English teacher, did not help. The big > > > breakthrough for me > > > was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided into > > > the formula > > > he also provided: > > > d = > > > > > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > > > > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a > > > complicated-looking > > > formula in order to derive chord factors, probably puts > > > me in the top > > > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly impressed > > > my friends. > > > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with something > > > over 1700 > > > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn where I > > > have my > > > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia > > > aluminum rod > > > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 invisible > > > pieces of > > > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know what > > > you're doing > > > in order to accomplish something! > > > > > > Bob Sanderson > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:49:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: 2001-953273023-1-9 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks Joe for all your hard work. You rock! > From: Joe S Moore > Organization: (Retired) > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:48:31 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: 2001-953273023-1-9 > > Buckminster Fuller Institute's Tax Return for 2001 from Guidestar: > > http://documents.guidestar.org/2001/953/273/2001-953273023-1-9.pdf > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 03:46:30 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Owen Subject: Putting a Lid on Chernobyl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From The Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48331-2002Dec28.html Putting a Lid on Chernobyl 200 Tons of Uranium Lie in Ruins of Derelict Reactor By Guy Gugliotta Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, December 29, 2002; Page A01 Engineers are completing plans for what may be the largest movable structure ever built -- a 20,000-ton steel shell to enclose Chernobyl Reactor 4, site of an apocalyptic nuclear accident whose consequences are still being felt more than 16 years later. By next summer an international consortium led by Bechtel International Systems Corp., of San Francisco, will finish the conceptual design for a hangar-shaped arch nearly 370 feet high -- the height of a 35-story building -- that would be slid into place along greased steel plates to cover the ruined remains in a snug, weather-tight shelter. Inside, robotic cranes and, where possible, live workers will then begin prying apart the wreckage, removing radioactive dust from twisted girders, storing pieces of radioactive core in shielded canisters and cutting old steel into manageable lengths. The whole job -- design, construction and "stabilization" of the derelict reactor 80 miles north of Kiev -- is part of a fully funded 10-year plan set in motion by the Group of 7 industrialized nations in 1997. The $768 million project, including the shell, is scheduled for completion in 2007, according to officials involved with the project. And then the world will wait. The shelter is designed to keep water out and dust in for 100 years, or for as long as it takes the Ukrainian government to designate a permanent storage facility and dispose of more than 200 tons of uranium and nearly a ton of lethally radioactive plutonium that remain inside the ruins. Most of the fuel-containing material lies as a solid "lava" formed by the fusion of molten fuel, concrete, 30 tons of fuel dust and 2,000 tons of combustibles. In the basement, rainwater and fuel dust have mixed together in a dangerous radioactive "soup." Lethal chunks of the reactor core lie unseen in the rubble and in the earth alongside the building. More pieces of core were boxed and buried in a "cascade wall" built and bulldozed into place by Soviet workers in the immediate aftermath of the explosion. "We will need a lot of shielding," said Vincent Novak, director of the Nuclear Safety Department for the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, overseers of the project. "If it weren't for the radioactivity, I could almost call the job 'a piece of cake,' but the radiation makes it hugely complex and extremely difficult." The Chernobyl explosion occurred April 26, 1986, when an out-of-control nuclear reaction blew off the roof of the steel building and spewed tons of radioactive material into the air, releasing 30 to 40 times as much radioactivity as the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs combined in 1945. It was the worst nuclear accident in history. Thirty workers died immediately at the facility, and 135,000 people were evacuated from the surrounding "Exclusion Zone." As recently as 2000, the Ukraine government was spending 5 percent of its gross domestic product to mitigate consequences of the disaster. In the six months immediately following the explosion, the Soviets erected an improvised shelter known as the "sarcophagus," but within 10 years scientists became alarmed because of leaks and the building's threatened collapse. The walls were weakening, Novak said, and there was tremendous uncertainty because "it was almost impossible to determine" the real dangers. In 1997, the Group of 7, plus Russia, the European Union and Ukraine, set up the Chernobyl Shelter Fund with the European reconstruction bank in charge. The bank established a shelter implementation plan, estimated the project cost at $768 million, and funded it with donations from 28 nations, ranging from $170 million from the United States to Iceland's $10,000. In the first phase, completed in 1999, the sarcophagus's roof and structural pillars were strengthened, and the reactor's rickety ventilation stack, jutting more than 150 feet above the sarcophagus, was stabilized. The stack was an added concern, because it was shared by the contiguous Reactor No. 3, which was still operating. But these were emergency measures. "Safety analyses show there are still about 1,000 square meters [1,200 square yards] of holes in the roof and sides," said Eric Schmieman, chief engineer for environmental technology at Battelle Memorial Institute's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, Wash. "A significant amount of water can go in, and dust can go out, and birds and squirrels and birds come and go all the time." The Bechtel-led consortium designing the $250 million structure to cover the sarcophagus had to make several decisions early. None of the three design contractors, including Battelle and the French state utility Electricite de France, will be allowed to bid on the actual work. Doubts arose as to whether a steel structure could last a century. With lethal levels of radiation inside the shell, opportunities for repair and maintenance could be limited. "It's doable," said Bechtel's Matthew Wrona, project manager. "There are paints that last a long time and maintenance techniques for harsh environments." The Eiffel Tower is perhaps the best-known large, century-old steel structure fully exposed to the elements, but Wrona noted that several large suspension bridges are aging elegantly. The team also avoided experimental technologies in favor of the tried and true. "We're trying to build it for 100 years, and using brand-new technologies increases the risks," Schmieman said. "If a human being has to intervene, there's a consequence. We need to minimize the danger." The team settled on a steel arch 40 feet thick. The inside dimensions would be 803 feet -- almost three football fields -- across and 330 feet high. Up to that point, planning was relatively simple, because "it had all been done before," said Philippe Convert, technical manager for Electricite de France, but the next steps were a different story: Lethal gamma rays escaping from the reactor's damaged core would make the center of the arch too hot for humans to work. Building the arch in place was impossible. Instead, the team decided to construct the arch in four 120-foot sections, then link the sections together and slide the entire structure along a track made of steel plates built on each side of Reactor No. 4. When completed, the project managers believe the new shelter will be the largest movable structure ever built. One end will be fully enclosed, while the other will be a "cutout" that fits snugly over Reactor No. 3's building, which connects to the ruins. Current plans call for the stack to be taken down, and the junction between the arch wall and Reactor No. 3 to be sealed. The new shelter will not "contain" the core's radioactivity but will be weatherproof. The tracks will be made by driving piles into the ground at relatively close intervals, then filling the gaps with concrete. The planners want to avoid seating the concrete in a deep trench, for fear of unearthing radioactive material during excavation. The concrete will then be covered with stainless steel plates and coated with a lubricant, while the bottom of the new steel shell will have Teflon pads for easier sliding. Convert said the sliding technique is used extensively to move heavy machinery. While workers will be able to enter some parts of Reactor No. 4 and work on the wreckage in relative safety, the most routine tasks can suddenly turn deadly. "Surprises are inevitable," Novak said. During the initial roof and structural repair, "we found a large piece of core embedded in the wall. Everything stopped until we could build a device and get the shielding to handle it. Each case is different." To help deconstruct parts of the reactor building and the sarcophagus, the new shell will have four ceiling cranes designed to pluck heavy steel beams from the old reactor and to wrestle pieces of twisted metal from the ruins. They will also be equipped with hydraulic cutters to chop wreckage into manageable chunks. One unusual problem is the need to manage the new shell's microclimate. "It's so big, it could even rain inside, so we have to keep the moisture down," Wrona said. Air conditioning would be prohibitively expensive, so "we'll try to use natural air currents. It's like the inside of an automobile on a cold morning." © 2002 The Washington Post Company ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 04:04:56 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: understanding math In-Reply-To: <3E0FA5C9.7403CA3E@domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii About the hex/pent framework we discussed recently... I built a paper one and it is stable and strong when it has some thickness, or depth of truss. This thickness is not needed when all triangles are used in a framework. Do you know what I mean? Dick Randome (pat.pending) --- Blair Wolfram wrote: > You are correct Dick. Add to these totals, 1280 as the > number of > triangle faces. > > Blair > > > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > (10x8x8)+2=642 vertexes. Edges=3(n-2)=3x640=1920 > struts. > > No? > > > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > > > 1700 struts? How did you put that many stuts in an > 8v? > > > > > > Bob wrote: > > > > > > > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency > > > sphere model using > > > > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and > How > > > to Use it" > > > > while maintaining that I found the book > overwhelming. > > > > > > > > I determined to read every sentence in the book, > > > resisting the > > > > impulse to throw it across the room, and > understanding > > > almost > > > > nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a > > > mathematician, but > > > > I think an English teacher, did not help. The big > > > breakthrough for me > > > > was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided > into > > > the formula > > > > he also provided: > > > > d = > > > > > > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > > > > > > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a > > > complicated-looking > > > > formula in order to derive chord factors, probably > puts > > > me in the top > > > > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly > > > impressed my friends. > > > > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with > something > > > over 1700 > > > > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn > where I > > > have my > > > > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia > > > aluminum rod > > > > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 > invisible > > > pieces of > > > > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know > > > what you're doing > > > > in order to accomplish something! > > > > > > > > Bob Sanderson > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Formactive: > > > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 04:08:46 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: 2001-953273023-1-9 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I second that. --- Leifur Thor wrote: > Thanks Joe for all your hard work. You rock! > > > From: Joe S Moore > > Organization: (Retired) > > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster > Fuller's works > > > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > > Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:48:31 -0700 > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: 2001-953273023-1-9 > > > > Buckminster Fuller Institute's Tax Return for 2001 from > Guidestar: > > > > > http://documents.guidestar.org/2001/953/273/2001-953273023-1-9.pdf > > > > ============================== > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > > ============================= __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:01:23 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks Joe for posting these. Since I'm fairly new here, can you tell me if you post BFI's, and GENI's tax returns every year, or is this a new thing? Also, I'd like to admit ignorance as an accountant, and ask anyone who's read these if they could summarize- How much net revenue the two organizations made? How much salary are the principles getting? How much grant money they received, and from where? (so I can apply too LOL!) Also on another note, I'm curious what BFI and GENI's plans are for 2003? Anyone know any details. As someone who's been helping the Bucky show however I can, I wish I could say the most is being done to get information out to the public, who, by the way, are changed after the show (not for all, but many for sure). It's a beautiful thing to see. I'm not saying anyone's dropping the ball. I just think for a truly productive environment, when people come up with ideas to help promote the show, and anything else to get the word out, if many agree it's a good idea, powers that be shouldn't hold it back or even think about "what's in it for me". And I'm not directing this comment in any way towards GENI or Peter. GENI doesn't hold the keys to when and how people can promote Bucky's ideas. That falls directly on BFI. And if I've just ruined my reputation with them, that would be unfortunate, because we should always be able to be honest with each other. I hate people who just whine or complain, so in effort to not be a hipocrit, I'd like to suggest at least one idea to add to the show. How about a free workshop examining some Universal Principles held for folks who have seen the show and want to learn enough to use these principles in their lives today. Duration: 60 minutes And I'd be happy to teach it, if they'd let me LOL! This workshop could cover some of the universal principles touched on during the play, and through Bucky's writings, to people who have seen the show, and would like to learn more detail about- Synergy: The behavior of whole systems, undetected by the behavior of the individual parts. Examples of Synergy such as Nickel Chromium Steel, and orbital behavior. Ephemeralization: Doing more with less, or replacing "stuff" with thought. Examples covered could include Tensegrity, satellites, lunar flight, grocery stores, housing, and starting your car. Energetic Geometry: Experiential math, or math based on what actually exists in Universe, rather than in theoretic. What use is there in a Universe where one triangle can equal four. And the consequences we experienced by ignoring the math Universe employs. Push/Pull Technology: Nature (Universe) always designs with attraction rather than through force. The winds don't blow, they suck. Gravity pulls, as are the oceans are pulled towards the moon with gravity (tides), and plants grow towards light. Using Universal Principles in our Lives Today: So one triangle makes four, and the metal in jet engines is really really strong. So what. What does it have to do with my life today, now? Learn how we can use these universal principles in our lives right now, and to see what the little man (each of us) can do to move humanity towards 100% success. All elements of the workshop are covered in a down to earth way so any layman can comprehend by the end of the workshop what these universal principles are, and how knowing them we can effect our lives today. Bucky was only able to create the magnificent artifacts he did because he realized the priceless value of understanding Universe. Imagine a world where everyone else understands how Universe really operates. There may be enough resources to have six billion millionaires, but until those six billion millionaires begin to unlearn the myths we've all been ingrained with, those resources will never be allocated to benefit everyone. So there's one idea. Let's think of some more. There are a lot of smart people in this group. What can you come up with? Let's get a list going and if we can agree on some good ideas. I'll ask BFI, Foghouse, or whoever I need to, to help get this play the ephemeralization it can achieve. > From: Joe S Moore > Organization: (Retired) > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:55:36 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: 2001-330473889-1-9 > > Global Energy Network Institute's tax return for 2001 from Guidestar: > > http://documents.guidestar.org/2001/330/473/2001-330473889-1-9.pdf > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 11:53:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leifur, Every year I post the tax returns of BFI & GENI. If they would ever start posting that info on their web sites, then I wouldn't have to. It would appear that BFI's income was about $280,000 in 2001, & their expenses were about $370,000. GENI had about $158,000 income & about $145,000 expenses. BFI reports about $10,000 in Administrative expenses & GENI $79,000. Neither organization lists who their contributors are, just the total amount. GENI's website lists the following projects: http://www.geni.org/energy/projects/projects.html BFI lists their plans on the following page: http://209.196.135.250/about_this_website.htm ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info <========== N E W Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leifur Thor" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 > Thanks Joe for posting these. Since I'm fairly new here, can you tell me if > you post BFI's, and GENI's tax returns every year, or is this a new thing? > > Also, I'd like to admit ignorance as an accountant, and ask anyone who's > read these if they could summarize- > > How much net revenue the two organizations made? > How much salary are the principles getting? > How much grant money they received, and from where? (so I can apply too > LOL!) > > Also on another note, I'm curious what BFI and GENI's plans are for 2003? > Anyone know any details. > (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 19:51:48 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Leifur Thor >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:01:23 -0800 What about a collectively discussed and edited poem consolidated by Joe? There go some first lines for discussion: What are these stubborn "pattern integrities" that jump wherever we push in love, in tenderness, in anger? What is this Quincy, threeying to tell? and the rePUBlic of Larouche's is so far away from Tocqueville's? Why is this Bucky's ghost reluctantly waiting to succeed? what is it wainting for? Is it for me, for you, for all? >if we can agree on some good ideas. > In México city, there is a dome used for theater representations, a theater guy living there told me that what convinced the buyer now owner of the dome was that the man that sold the dome hung a wolkswagen from the center of it. That would be a great place to represent the play for a spanish speaking audiencie of more than 15 million inhabitants. The play has to be released in order to be translated. >I'll ask BFI, Foghouse, or whoever I need to, to help get this play the >ephemeralization it can achieve. > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:09:02 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: understanding math Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "patent pending," yo'silly ass. please note that I haven't actually called you a liar, but do you actually claim all of the uncredited photos that are posted on Synergeo@yahoo!s.com? really, your mealy-mouthed attmepts at geometry were out of hand, a long time ago! thus qutoh: About the hex/pent framework we discussed recently... I built a paper one and it is stable and strong when it has some thickness, or depth of truss. This thickness is not needed when all triangles are used in a framework. Do you know what I mean? Dick Randome (pat.pending) --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:12:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Putting a Lid on Chernobyl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed exxuse me, but you may not have noticed a *tiny* article in the LATimes of a few days ago, wherein a protest was reported, of folks who live there who want the rest of Chernobyl turned back on. in deed, the only thing that has been "apocalyptical" about Chernobyl, is the 15+ years of hype, as you could tell by searching for UNSCEAR's 2000 report on the matter. thus quoth: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48331-2002Dec28.html Putting a Lid on Chernobyl 200 Tons of Uranium Lie in Ruins of Derelict Reactor By Guy Gugliotta Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, December 29, 2002; Page A01 --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB 20 -- THE PHONY WAR ON DRUGS 21 -- OMAHA 22 -- GEORGE "#9" TAKES THE PRESIDENCY 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER 25 -- THYROID STORM _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:18:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: projection of "Kruste Klown" Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed mister clown, there is only one way to arrange the trigona such that a great circle will be straight -- if even that one works, and it occurs to me that it may not, because of an elementary property of the trigon. so, I guess that you haven't found it; eh? actaully, I can think of one shape for which it is easy to make a straight GC; can you think of it, or any others (NB, the "waterman" shapes never can, as far as I can see) ?? thus quoth: Not sure about the "STRAIGHT LINE" business, I think you will find that due to the distortions it will be a curve or a wonky line. Also, there is a difference between what can be done and what is done. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:26:08 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: projection of "Kruste Klown" Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is PC BS (from the Toynbee School of Imperialisme Nouveau?) the Mercator was devised as a navigational tool, and thus it *has* to be oriented with "the grid," which happens to also be oriented from south to north (so, yes, it can be made with teh S. hemisphere at the "top;" yeeha .-) it was never intended to be equal-area, just conformal, and to always indicate a True Heading of a ship, as found by looking at stars & compass. actually, I may be overstating this, as the US military uses the same projection on various axes (not just the N-S diameter), which is known as the Universal Transvers Something; but, that may not be used for navigation per se. thus quoth: Mercator maps do this for the most part. This is because the countries in the North had all the power and the map makers, who wanted to inflate their contries appearance. So instead of spreading things out equally from the equator...they calibrated as if the Equator were further south. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:31:26 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodeslexia Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dyslexia isn't your problem, hereinat. anyway, pi is just a symbolic notation for a half-rotation, or one-quarter of the area of a sphere (720 sterradians, or "solid degrees"). thus quoth: Is there a constructive type proof of Gauss-Bonnet, or one without calculus or pi? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:37:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: streamlined generator for watermans by Paul Bourke Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the shapes for root-1001 and root-3001 are cool, lie moire patterns! http://www.astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/polyhedra/waterman/index3.html that "and add 16" didn't work for very long, on the list of numbers that were quoted -- the ones for the Missing dystances to sphere-centers, of course. also, your friend's assertion about integer multiples of root-2 --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER 25 -- THYROID STORM "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:53:22 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodeslexia Comments: cc: sphere , synergeo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Now I get it. They have been using little squares, steradians, to measure area. This is crazy. You have got to use little triangles. Is a steradian a little _square_ sphere slice? It just never occured to me!!! --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > dyslexia isn't your problem, hereinat. anyway, > pi is just a symbolic notation for a half-rotation, > or one-quarter of the area of a sphere (720 sterradians, > or > "solid degrees"). > > thus quoth: > Is there a constructive type proof of Gauss-Bonnet, or > one without > calculus or pi? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:52:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: understanding math Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed prove it, as they say, punk! sorry, but I ment taht those pictures were posted on "GeoJourney@yahoo!s.com," as well as on your MSN thingy. you've never given any indication that you actually built anything, as you couldn't describe any of the (inevitable) problems, such as "How does this **** shingle, any way?" I'm not *calling* you a liar, as of yet. thus quoth: Hey. I owe you for driving me to explore surfaces and what has come before. I really am very good at construction. Always have been. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:07:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Brianchon Comments: To: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "must be," but how?... the proofs of Pascal's and Brianchon's are quite elementary, and Pascal "wrote the book" on projective geometry -- the first one. you've never bothered to whoe to yourself, how it is that the putative cones *cannot* be punded-together, and yet remain "conical;" you're just busting your gut on net-trolling, is all that any one can see. yes, though, it's true that one can show the cases for any simpler shape than a hexagon, just by caoalescing points of it to "degeneracy." thus quoth: Answering my own question, it's called the degenerate case. This must be relevant to the geometry of structures made by overlapping conical elements. http://steiner.math.nthu.edu.tw/ne01/tjy/non-euclidean/PPB%20thm/BrianchonTheorem.htm --- In synergeo@yahoogroups.com, "Dick Fischbeck " wrote: >Here is the interactive example. > >http://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curriculum/Geometry/Brianchon.shtml --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA 19 -- THE LEVERAGED BUYOUT MOB "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:20:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: "missing numbers" Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's perfectly clear (and sorry, but Rybo had misquoted your listing, which also dos not have a straight listing of the numbers, just some wierd table) ... that numbers of the form 4^i(8j+7) can't just be "+16," and this is clear from the Slaone's listing that you linked (I'd tried to input part of Rybo's list, but it's obvious, why that didn't work .-)... however, it does seem as if your formula could be attacked, to yield the proper one; not that it isn't neccesarily "the same thing," but it doesn't seem to be, to me. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:35:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: A004215 (Formerly M4349) Comments: To: njas@research.att.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed although this came-up on another guy's researches, a mister Waterman, I had already noted it "by construction" using graph-paper about '89, first with root-7 as easily being shown to not be constructible in the "XYZ grid," although I didn't realize that others could not also be so-constructed on the "IVM" o'Bucky, at that time. so, the construction of these numbers is simply those, of the form 4^i(8j+7), as listed on the Sloane's site, that are *not* found as distances between vertices of the space-filling array of tetrahedra & octahedra (the IVM, which is dual to the packing of rhombical dodecahedra, for the sake of visualizing it .-) of course, those integers cannot be formed by the sum of 3 second-powers ("squares"), but require four of them ... which still leaves a lot to be explainded! this is to say that root-7 *is* constructible in the unit-edged IVM; we have to multiply these by root-2 (or just the "missing numbers" by 2, as 2x7) to go from the representation in the descartesian grid, to the IVM; thus, the first "missing number" is 14, standing for the distance of the second root of 14 (uh between 3 and 4 .-) --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:16:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is just A004215, but the numbers multiplied by two. they relate to a sort of "figuration" of numbers, which are the distances (as second-roots of these numbers, found by applying the Pythagorean theorem) from any center of a sphere, to any other, in the usual (Keplerian) close-packing of spheres ... ur I just input the sequence into the database, and see that you (Sloane) have a credit for discovering that they are "not of the form x^2+y^2+2z^2. These are the numbers not occurring as norms in the face-centered cubic lattice (cf. A004015)." so, isn't this more of a recondite explanation? anyway, your formula, given, is 2^(2i+1)*(8*j+7) -- thanks! PS: root-7 is the first missing distance from vertices of the cartesian "3D" grid, to others; wheras root-14 is the first to be missing from the "IVM." the latter probably explains more, than the former! PPS: my method of construction: layers of simple graph-paper, to connote the tetragonal ("square") cross-sections of the IVM (which also has trigonal cross-sections, and which also explains the existence of the "pre- and post-pythagorean" trigona, those with integral sides, based upon the cosine law (cc = aa + bb =/- 2ab(cos(theta))). Brian "Quincy" Hutchings POBox 701, Santa Monica 90406 Space998@hotmail.com --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:31:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: 1000001 knights? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed just wait, to see how long it takes for Bruce Cathie et al promoters of lay-lines, cropcicles and/or conchemtrails to put that on the cover of their e-book -- the n=million "waterman" shape! here's an experiment: what is the moire' pattern, between n=a million and a million-and-one (obviously, normalizing the size of the spheric to be the same, i guess) ?? http://www.astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/polyhedra/waterman/index4.html "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:33:48 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: 1000001 knights? Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed so, how many of the VE's greatcircles can be dyscerned as "laylines on the root-1000000 watermanshape," if not all of them? http://www.astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/polyhedra/waterman/index4.html "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:39:26 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodeslexia Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you're really cruising to be called, Dickhead, henceforth. really, though, it has nothing to do with tetragona or trigona per se, although the constant, pi, is often interpolated with the former; not out of any neccesity, it seems! thus quoth: steradians, to measure area. This is crazy. You have got to use little triangles. Is a steradian a little _square_ sphere slice? It just never occured to me!!! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 20:07:37 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Putting a Lid on Chernobyl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yo, Quince Man!! Not so fast there you hit N' run poet. Howzziss for apocalyptic evidence vis a vis Chernobyl? http://www.ratical.org/radiation/overviews.html#CHOR http://www.ratical.org/radiation/ Scroll down to # 8 to see specific Chernobyl links & be prepared to peruse further after linking to both scientific and science/philosophy papers. Bring a lite beer or 2 to balance, seein it's heavy(water) readin'. Since the rest of the Ratical page on nuclear power is not in agreement with yur favorite common-tator (the very Intell LL), perhaps we can open up the board for some point/counterpoint regarding this most important of subjects. Invite some of the scientists involved in the opposing publications to debate club on Bucky forum? As for the "Cannitt 'appen 'ere, mate?" nuclear question, allow yourselves a brief review of these pages http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id2165/pg5/ and http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id2165/pg2/ N' Quincy, about yur fixation on this LL kkkaracter.....very Intell 'dis Lyndon LaRouche....though one must look through & past his mixed nuts history... N' a 1 http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc1.html N' a 2 http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc2.html N' a 3 http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc3.html Lyndon LaRouche aka Mitch Miller on ONI political steroids with an intell feeding toob. N' don' it make you jus' quivah all ovah, Quincy; when Rush Dumbo quotes LL's science magazine? http://www.fair.org/press-releases/limbaugh-debates-reality.html On 1 of your favorite dis's, yet....global warming...Volcano, indeed!? Q. May I add yet one more serious question for the advocate of the elderly memory box, with aforementioned attached feeding toob, LL? A. Yes, I may... Awrighty then... I have a copy of his usefull book, Dope, Inc. where he points out the long history of secret governments, organised crime, local crime and foreign agents who have inevitably shown up at any prohibition (shoot, do ya figure they "lobbied" for the damn thangs *prohibitions* wherever & whenever they've arisen). Adding LL's Dope, Inc to the list of 40 or more good to excellant books detailing prohibitions' history of inevitable submission to subversion by both profitering friend & foe alike. Peter Dale Scott's site for 1 example: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/index.html Yet, inexplicably the would be world fixer LL suggests that he can direct a successfull prohibition. Nothing like rebooting a millennial+++ loser like prohibitions. Methinks nada.....details upon request. Q. Iahm feelin' soz good, I'm gonna venture one more query, if I may? A. Indeed I shall I remember a serious blurb from tho' (Quincy) concerning hemp lies (in reference to it's usefullness) and offer you, in retort, a picture reference to Henry Ford's hemp car (Drug War - Dan Russell, pg. 154) & verbal description of parts made from hemp....body panels, glass, seats, dash, steering wheel, and as Rudolph Diesel intended, capable of running on the 1,000 gallon per acre hemp oil. I raise you 1 Ratical.org page, listing hemps other uses : http://www.ratical.org/renewables/ A plant that can conceivably feed, clothe, house (& more) the world in 1-5 years is nuttin to be misinformed about - eh? Canadian humor there. Your comments please, oh wise(ass) one. Convert me if tho' canst, oh squire. El Marko ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:51:52 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks Joe again for answering my questions, and for posting the info. I have one last silly question regarding what you've said. If both organizations are losing such large amounts of money, how are they able to exist? Or could this be one of those tax things... > From: Joe S Moore > Organization: (Retired) > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 11:53:35 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 > > Leifur, > > Every year I post the tax returns of BFI & GENI. If they would ever start > posting that info on their web sites, then I wouldn't have to. > > It would appear that BFI's income was about $280,000 in 2001, & their > expenses were about $370,000. > > GENI had about $158,000 income & about $145,000 expenses. > > BFI reports about $10,000 in Administrative expenses & GENI $79,000. > > Neither organization lists who their contributors are, just the total > amount. > > GENI's website lists the following projects: > http://www.geni.org/energy/projects/projects.html > > BFI lists their plans on the following page: > http://209.196.135.250/about_this_website.htm > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info <========== N E W > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leifur Thor" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 > > >> Thanks Joe for posting these. Since I'm fairly new here, can you tell me > if >> you post BFI's, and GENI's tax returns every year, or is this a new thing? >> >> Also, I'd like to admit ignorance as an accountant, and ask anyone who's >> read these if they could summarize- >> >> How much net revenue the two organizations made? >> How much salary are the principles getting? >> How much grant money they received, and from where? (so I can apply too >> LOL!) >> >> Also on another note, I'm curious what BFI and GENI's plans are for 2003? >> Anyone know any details. >> > (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:34:21 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Blair Wolfram Subject: Re: understanding math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Using just paper for triangles, do you have any folds at the edges, or tape to hold them against each other? As this may substitute for a depth of truss. I can't see how paper triangles will stack without an edge face. Blair Dick Fischbeck wrote: > About the hex/pent framework we discussed recently... I > built a paper one and it is stable and strong when it has > some thickness, or depth of truss. This thickness is not > needed when all triangles are used in a framework. Do you > know what I mean? > > Dick > Randome > (pat.pending) > > --- Blair Wolfram wrote: > > You are correct Dick. Add to these totals, 1280 as the > > number of > > triangle faces. > > > > Blair > > > > > > > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > > > (10x8x8)+2=642 vertexes. Edges=3(n-2)=3x640=1920 > > struts. > > > No? > > > > > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > > > > 1700 struts? How did you put that many stuts in an > > 8v? > > > > > > > > Bob wrote: > > > > > > > > > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 frequency > > > > sphere model using > > > > > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math and > > How > > > > to Use it" > > > > > while maintaining that I found the book > > overwhelming. > > > > > > > > > > I determined to read every sentence in the book, > > > > resisting the > > > > > impulse to throw it across the room, and > > understanding > > > > almost > > > > > nothing. The author's assertions that he was not a > > > > mathematician, but > > > > > I think an English teacher, did not help. The big > > > > breakthrough for me > > > > > was plugging the spherical coordinates he provided > > into > > > > the formula > > > > > he also provided: > > > > > d = > > > > > > > > > > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > > > > > > > > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a > > > > complicated-looking > > > > > formula in order to derive chord factors, probably > > puts > > > > me in the top > > > > > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly > > > > impressed my friends. > > > > > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with > > something > > > > over 1700 > > > > > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn > > where I > > > > have my > > > > > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 dia > > > > aluminum rod > > > > > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 > > invisible > > > > pieces of > > > > > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to know > > > > what you're doing > > > > > in order to accomplish something! > > > > > > > > > > Bob Sanderson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Formactive: > > > > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: US base sinks in South Pole (http://theaustralian.com.au) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm guessing. Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > this was established in the article, or > the journal qutoed-from? > > thus quoth: > Melting ice beneath. > > thus saith: > >> I'm not sure that it was clear from the article >> (I just read that far), but >> it could be because of increased precipitation >> (snowfall, probably .-) > > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis, > so does Usama's MacJihad: > "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > --SIGHnS: MacJihad versus McCrusade, George goes > to Harry-the-Potter's "Public School;" if > Dame Jo din't write a Scholast's script, > "Let's you & Saddam dance" is Tony Blair's > reading, not just his ideal! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/3rd.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > --SIGHnS: D*ck Ch*n*y's 2 focusgroups planned > for this "clash o'civs," before 911! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/DeepPool.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > www.larouchepub.com > > --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... > The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols > of the Elders of Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): > 23 -- THE END OF HISTORY (168K) > 24 -- THE NEW WORLD ORDER (255K) > 25 -- THYROID STORM (139K) > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf > -- Formactive: http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 04:33:57 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: understanding math In-Reply-To: <3E11103D.485DB4F3@domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The thing I just built is an irregular spherical honeycomb. The elements are frustums of acute cones all with the same solid angle. I'll get a picture up soon. --- Blair Wolfram wrote: > Using just paper for triangles, do you have any folds at > the > edges, or tape to hold them against each other? As this > may > substitute for a depth of truss. I can't see how paper > triangles > will stack without an edge face. > > Blair > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > About the hex/pent framework we discussed recently... I > > built a paper one and it is stable and strong when it > has > > some thickness, or depth of truss. This thickness is > not > > needed when all triangles are used in a framework. Do > you > > know what I mean? > > > > Dick > > Randome > > (pat.pending) > > > > --- Blair Wolfram > wrote: > > > You are correct Dick. Add to these totals, 1280 as > the > > > number of > > > triangle faces. > > > > > > Blair > > > > > > > > > > > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > > > > > (10x8x8)+2=642 vertexes. Edges=3(n-2)=3x640=1920 > > > struts. > > > > No? > > > > > > > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > > > > > 1700 struts? How did you put that many stuts in > an > > > 8v? > > > > > > > > > > Bob wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Quincy asks how I could have built an 8 > frequency > > > > > sphere model using > > > > > > the spherical coordinates from "Geodesic Math > and > > > How > > > > > to Use it" > > > > > > while maintaining that I found the book > > > overwhelming. > > > > > > > > > > > > I determined to read every sentence in the > book, > > > > > resisting the > > > > > > impulse to throw it across the room, and > > > understanding > > > > > almost > > > > > > nothing. The author's assertions that he was > not a > > > > > mathematician, but > > > > > > I think an English teacher, did not help. The > big > > > > > breakthrough for me > > > > > > was plugging the spherical coordinates he > provided > > > into > > > > > the formula > > > > > > he also provided: > > > > > > d = > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sqrt(2-2{costheta1costheta2+cos[phi1-phi2]sintheta1sintheta2}) > > > > > > > > > > > > Blindly plugging spherical coordinates into a > > > > > complicated-looking > > > > > > formula in order to derive chord factors, > probably > > > puts > > > > > me in the top > > > > > > .0001 % of mathematical geniuses. It certainly > > > > > impressed my friends. > > > > > > And the model, an 8 ft diameter sphere with > > > something > > > > > over 1700 > > > > > > struts, hangs serenely in the loft of the barn > > > where I > > > > > have my > > > > > > office. Its somewhat deceptive: there is a 1/8 > dia > > > > > aluminum rod > > > > > > around the equator, which is suspended by 5 > > > invisible > > > > > pieces of > > > > > > fishing line. It shows that you don't have to > know > > > > > what you're doing > > > > > > in order to accomplish something! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Sanderson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Formactive: > > > > > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/ > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > > > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 04:39:42 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: understanding math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I keep saying there are no problems shingling. You say there are. That's where things stand. Why don't you just say what problems you are talking about, if you can. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > you've never given any indication that > you actually built anything, as > you couldn't describe any of the (inevitable) problems, > such as "How does this **** shingle, any way?" __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 04:46:34 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Brianchon In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If the vertexes of a randome(pat.pending) are connected with lines and those lines are bisected, each vertex gets surrounded by a n-gon. A circle or ellipse can be drawn inside each n-gon, as Brianchon showed. That's what I'm thinking. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > "must be," but how?... the proofs of Pascal's and > Brianchon's > are quite elementary, and Pascal "wrote the book" > on projective geometry -- the first one. > you've never bothered to whoe to yourself, > how it is that the putative cones *cannot* be > punded-together, > and yet remain "conical;" __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 04:55:26 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodeslexia In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here's one for you, Lyndon. If one sterad is the solid angle responsible for intersecting the surface area equal to one square radius, what are we gonna call the solid angle that cuts an area on one trigon radius?? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > really, though, > it has nothing to do with tetragona or trigona per se, > although the constant, pi, is often interpolated > with the former; not out of any neccesity, > it seems! > > thus quoth: > steradians, to measure area. This is crazy. You have got > to > use little triangles. > > Is a steradian a little _square_ sphere slice? It just > never occured to me!!! > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:09:31 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Subject: thanks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thanks to Dick Fischbeck for having the patience to help a clutz set up a photo album on Joe Moore's site, and thanks for Joe for providing it. http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/megadomemodels.msnw?Page=1 Bob Sanderson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:14:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: solid angle deficiency Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone know the answers? http://web.merrimack.edu/~thull/combgeom/handout3.pdf Also, what is the relationship between the solid angle deficit and the axial angle deficit? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:34:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Ya know that is one thing that really irks me is that there is a cool dome in the lobby of the thearter, that could support a car. Do we have so much as even a swing for people to try? nope. Insurance. So like so much of Bucky's stuff, it's there to look at, but for god's sake don't tug on it, punch it, or bloody well test it! It might break. > From: Gerardo Garcia > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 19:51:48 +0000 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 >=20 >> From: Leifur Thor >> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 >> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:01:23 -0800 >=20 > What about a collectively discussed and edited poem consolidated by Joe? > There go some first lines for discussion: >=20 > What are these stubborn "pattern integrities" > that jump wherever we push > in love, in tenderness, in anger? >=20 > What is this Quincy, threeying to tell? > and the rePUBlic of Larouche's > is so far away from Tocqueville's? >=20 > Why is this Bucky's ghost > reluctantly waiting to succeed? > what is it wainting for? >=20 > Is it for me, for you, for all? >=20 >=20 >=20 >> if we can agree on some good ideas. >>=20 >=20 > In M=E9xico city, there is a dome used for theater representations, a theat= er > guy living there told me that what convinced the buyer now owner of the d= ome > was that the man that sold the dome hung a wolkswagen from the center of > it. That would be a great place to represent the play for a spanish > speaking audiencie of more than 15 million inhabitants. The play has to = be > released in order to be translated. >=20 >> I'll ask BFI, Foghouse, or whoever I need to, to help get this play the >> ephemeralization it can achieve. >>=20 >=20 >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail&xAPID=3D42&PS=3D47575&PI=3D732= 4&DI=3D > 7474&SU=3D > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=3D1216hotmailtaglines_addphoto= s_3mf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:42:45 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: thanks In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit very cool. > From: Bob > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:09:31 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: thanks > > Thanks to Dick Fischbeck for having the patience to help a clutz set > up a photo album on Joe Moore's site, and thanks for Joe for > providing it. > > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/megadomemodels.msnw?Page=1 > > Bob Sanderson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:05:12 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Putting a Lid on Chernobyl Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed At least, a mister Stehly has gumption. I simply ask that people a) review the UNSCEAR 2000 report on it, and b) that they look at the actual science on the 21st C. website, by someone who has a long experience with the bureaucracies. I haven't looked at any of these cites, but I can say a few things about a) hemp for haemorrhoids (as a panacea and/or Stupid-plant Economy; a mister Herer refused to debate me on the simplest lie that he'd reprinted in his book, which he'd sort-of believed, possible after having been tipped-off after my call to a radio-show), and b) if Rush Limbaugh said that you were the Prophet Isaiah undead, I really wouldn't give a floating fart; I've heard his awful program, on occaision, and he is a Mont Pelerinite schmucko, thorugh and through (butt I'm happy that he lost some weight .-) Thus quoth: Howzziss for apocalyptic evidence vis a vis Chernobyl? http://www.ratical.org/radiation/overviews.html#CHOR http://www.ratical.org/radiation/ Scroll down to # 8 to see specific Chernobyl links & be prepared to Thus quoth: As for the "Cannitt 'appen 'ere, mate?" nuclear question, allow yourselves a brief review of these pages http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id2165/pg5/ and http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id2165/pg2/ N' Quincy, about yur fixation on this LL kkkaracter.....very Intell 'dis Lyndon LaRouche....though one must look through & past his mixed nuts history... N' a 1 http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc1.html N' a 2 http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc2.html N' a 3 http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc3.html Thus quoth: N' don' it make you jus' quivah all ovah, Quincy; when Rush Dumbo quotes LL's science magazine? http://www.fair.org/press-releases/limbaugh-debates-reality.html On 1 of your favorite dis's, yet....global warming...Volcano, indeed!? Thus quoth: by both profitering friend & foe alike. Peter Dale Scott's site for 1 example: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/index.html Thus quoth: http://www.ratical.org/renewables/ A plant that can conceivably feed, clothe, house (& more) the world in 1-5 years is nuttin to be misinformed about - eh? Canadian humor there. Thus saith: the only thing that has been "apocalyptical" about Chernobyl, is the 15+ years of hype, as you could tell by searching for UNSCEAR's 2000 report on the matter. thus quoth: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48331-2002Dec28.html --A HYDROGEN (sic; cracked methane) ECONOMY?... The Three Phases of Exploitation of the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (partial contents, below): 17 -- THE ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 18 -- IRAN-CONTRA "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:03:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: understanding math Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There's only one thing that you could shingle, apparently, and that is ****. Go and fly a kite, if you can handle the string! The thing that you suggest re Brainchon is hogwash. Thus quoth: http://web.merrimack.edu/~thull/combgeom/handout3.pdf Also, what is the relationship between the solid angle deficit and the axial angle deficit? Thus quoth: I keep saying there are no problems shingling. You say there are. That's where things stand. Why don't you just say what problems you are talking about, if you can. Thus quoth: If the vertexes of a randome(pat.pending) are connected with lines and those lines are bisected, each vertex gets surrounded by a n-gon. A circle or ellipse can be drawn inside each n-gon, as Brianchon showed. That's what I'm thinking. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis; so does Usama's MacJihad wish a 100-year War, for a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:13:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: understanding math Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed don't forget to tell monsieur Petit, you've absolved his silly problem -- what ever in Hell it is!... alternatively, he could help you "get it together," at last. thus quoth: The thing I just built is an irregular spherical honeycomb. The elements are frustums of acute cones all with the same solid angle. I'll get a picture up soon. "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:11:12 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: projection of "Kruste Klown" Comments: cc: synergeo@yahooGroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed is that "Dick 'Krusty' Fischstichk?" I just recalled, the military usees UTMs, universal transvere mercators, but I think these are rather smaller areas, sort of like topos for the sea (and land) whereby navigation can be done, as of old -- taking into account the boundary between the maps. Of course, if one were to make a single mercator "projection" -- which is actually not a cylindrical one, but some thing that is a bit more complicated, involving logarithms -- than one'd have to have an infinite sheet of paper, with an infite area for Antarctica, and a Soth Pole that will never be crossed! Thus saith: the Mercator was devised as a navigational tool, and thus it *has* to be oriented with "the grid," which happens to also be oriented from south to north (so, yes, it can be made with teh S. hemisphere at the "top;" yeeha .-) it was never intended to be equal-area, just conformal, and to always indicate a True Heading of a ship, as found by looking at stars & compass. actually, I may be overstating this, as the US military uses the same projection on various axes (not just the N-S diameter), which is known as the Universal Transvers Something; but, that may not be used for navigation per se. Re: projection of "Kruste Klown" I just recalled, the military usees UTMs, universal transvere mercators, but I think these are rather smaller areas, sort of like topos for the sea (and land) whereby navigation can be done, as of old -- taking into account the boundary between the maps. Of course, if one were to make a single mercator "projection" -- which is actually not a cylindrical one, but some thing that is a bit more complicated, involving logarithms -- than one'd have to have an infinite sheet of paper, with an infite area for Antarctica, and a Soth Pole that will never be crossed! Thus saith: the Mercator was devised as a navigational tool, and thus it *has* to be oriented with "the grid," which happens to also be oriented from south to north (so, yes, it can be made with teh S. hemisphere at the "top;" yeeha .-) it was never intended to be equal-area, just conformal, and to always indicate a True Heading of a ship, as found by looking at stars & compass. actually, I may be overstating this, as the US military uses the same projection on various axes (not just the N-S diameter), which is known as the Universal Transvers Something; but, that may not be used for navigation per se. "HEY, GEORGE; LET'S YOU & SADDAM FIGHT" -Dame Maggie http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:58:39 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Putting a Lid on Chernobyl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quincy, A Gentleman's Challenge (that's One ritual meditation recitation good thing the Brits did give us - LL wink) I'll dissect the UnScare 2000 report and do a point by point summary no more than 10 Items at a time, since they use our money to make these things laboriously long (on purpose of course - just like 25 psy-ops caught @ CNN last year, same level, with a twist) If I have issues, I'll give you the (links to) references & studies I utilise for you to challenge/clarify/reply I'll also take on your "one & only" hemp question Right now Deal? Bad English distraction led to Rush Limbaugh detraction, forget that 21st Century Science & this "volcano thang" .... now there's me interest, mate. (In addition to above list) If LaRouche is wrong about Nuclear, it's a 30,000 year wrong. If he's wrong about global warming, the stakes ...well some legacy jeez, speak Rover N' what's with this edition of an audition regarding an addition to a blind in one eye prohibition repetition? Dear Ask LL replies: (point by point, as always, fellow human) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:20:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: understanding math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Correction: different solid angle, same perimeter. If solid angle is area, then the hexagons definitely do not have the same area. All vertexes have the same deficit. > thus quoth: > The thing I just built is an irregular spherical > honeycomb. > The elements are frustums of acute cones all with the > same > solid angle. I'll get a picture up soon. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:33:23 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: projection of "Kruste Klown" Comments: cc: sphere , synergeo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You've seen one version of Fischbeck's map, looks like this; pressed for time, Alaska got severed: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=84 Very different from Hershel's map. Everybody's got a map. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > is that "Dick 'Krusty' Fischstichk?" > > I just recalled, > the military usees UTMs, universal transvere mercators, > but > I think these are rather smaller areas, sort of like > topos for the sea (and land) whereby navigation can be > done, > as of old -- taking into account the boundary > between the maps. Of course, > if one were to make a single mercator "projection" > -- which is actually not a cylindrical one, but > some thing that is a bit more complicated, involving > logarithms -- > than one'd have to have an infinite sheet of paper, > with an infite area for Antarctica, and > a Soth Pole that will never be crossed! > > Thus saith: > the Mercator was devised as a navigational tool, and > thus it *has* to be oriented with "the grid," > which happens to also be oriented from south to north > (so, > yes, it can be made with teh S. hemisphere at the "top;" > yeeha .-) > it was never intended to be equal-area, just > conformal, and > to always indicate a True Heading of a ship, as found > by looking at stars & compass. > actually, I may be overstating this, > as the US military uses the same projection > on various axes (not just the N-S diameter), > which is known as the Universal Transvers Something; but, > that may not be used for navigation per se. > Re: projection of "Kruste Klown" > I just recalled, > the military usees UTMs, universal transvere mercators, > but > I think these are rather smaller areas, sort of like > topos for the sea (and land) whereby navigation can be > done, > as of old -- taking into account the boundary > between the maps. Of course, > if one were to make a single mercator "projection" > -- which is actually not a cylindrical one, but > some thing that is a bit more complicated, involving > logarithms -- > than one'd have to have an infinite sheet of paper, > with an infite area for Antarctica, and > a Soth Pole that will never be crossed! > > Thus saith: > the Mercator was devised as a navigational tool, and > thus it *has* to be oriented with "the grid," > which happens to also be oriented from south to north > (so, > yes, it can be made with teh S. hemisphere at the "top;" > yeeha .-) > it was never intended to be equal-area, just > conformal, and > to always indicate a True Heading of a ship, as found > by looking at stars & compass. > actually, I may be overstating this, > as the US military uses the same projection > on various axes (not just the N-S diameter), > which is known as the Universal Transvers Something; but, > that may not be used for navigation per se. > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:27:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: P Meisen Subject: GENI income and expense MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TO: Geodesic listserve: I cannot respond for BFI, but GENI does not lose or make money. We spend pretty much all that comes in. In good years, we may be able to add a part-time staffer, exhibit at a extra global meeting, expand our data base and yearly mailing, or create a CD ROM. On slower years, we move forward but at a slower pace. While GENI doesn't have final figures just yet for 2002, our income looks to be about $105,000 and I can almost gaurantee we invested just about all of that in our work. The Director was paid about $16,000 in 2002 The other questions from your previous e-mail will be answered as time allows. Specifically, GENI's plans and goals for the year 2003 will be forthcoming Thanks, Peter Meisen President, GENI peter@geni.org Leifur Thor wrote: >Thanks Joe again for answering my questions, and for posting the info. > >I have one last silly question regarding what you've said. If both >organizations are losing such large amounts of money, how are they able to >exist? Or could this be one of those tax things... > >>From: Joe S Moore >>Organization: (Retired) >>Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 11:53:35 -0700 >>To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 >> >>Leifur, >> >>Every year I post the tax returns of BFI & GENI. If they would ever start >>posting that info on their web sites, then I wouldn't have to. >> >>It would appear that BFI's income was about $280,000 in 2001, & their >>expenses were about $370,000. >> >>GENI had about $158,000 income & about $145,000 expenses. >> >>BFI reports about $10,000 in Administrative expenses & GENI $79,000. >> >>Neither organization lists who their contributors are, just the total >>amount. >> >>GENI's website lists the following projects: >>http://www.geni.org/energy/projects/projects.html >> >>BFI lists their plans on the following page: >>http://209.196.135.250/about_this_website.htm >> >>============================== >>Joe S Moore >>joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >>http://buckminster.info <========== N E W >>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >>============================= >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Leifur Thor" >>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>To: >>Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 11:01 AM >>Subject: Re: 2001-330473889-1-9 >> >> >>>Thanks Joe for posting these. Since I'm fairly new here, can you tell me >>> >>if >> >>>you post BFI's, and GENI's tax returns every year, or is this a new thing? >>> >>>Also, I'd like to admit ignorance as an accountant, and ask anyone who's >>>read these if they could summarize- >>> >>>How much net revenue the two organizations made? >>>How much salary are the principles getting? >>>How much grant money they received, and from where? (so I can apply too >>>LOL!) >>> >>>Also on another note, I'm curious what BFI and GENI's plans are for 2003? >>>Anyone know any details. >>> >>(snip) >> > -- The Global Energy Network Institute focuses on the interconnection of electric power networks between nations and continents, with an emphasis on tapping abundant renewable energy resources. This strategy is the highest priority of the World Game simulation developed by Dr. Buckminster Fuller three decades ago. TEL: 619-595-0139 peter@geni.org http://www.geni.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:00:53 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: GENI income and expense MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If they are lacking in funds and/or not making money consistantly they are either spun (internal sabotage), hindered (external sabotage), and /or inept (lack of creative spark *irony*). Bucky's work does echo/exercise the traditonal sacred math, Carl Munck's work being but one of the unspun best discoveries. http://www.pyramidmatrix.com I garauntee it's something Intell will not like having Bucky's on the trail of. Make sure to review Ralph Abram's work, along with a Ramanujan crib's notes. Bucky's ideas actually built and operated in societal applications will inspire genius like few others, and they just can't have that. Like three dimensional expression of the appreciation of nature a constant reminder of harmonious genius potential. Nope, can't have that. Better tell 'em Remember the Maine Remember the Lusitania Remember Pearl Harbor Remember Gulf of Tonkin Remember 9-11 and too many more Life's currently a flea circus with hall monitors. I think LL is bad news, Quincy, if I'm wrong.... You'll recieve 2 grass fed steaks, a case of beer, 2 bottles of wine (one Thunderbird, to remind the winner of humility or resentment, I forget which) *if you win this deal*. Remember what we lose if you've been given incomplete or carefully spun transnational money bought information - follow the money who has it (in abundance) and who has the money to spare to further a cause? same folks, you guessed it the nuclear mafia is in bed with all the worst of them. I think we can use the intelligence of this boared(sic!) to eliminate potential pResidential hopefulls and might as well start with favorites(yours N' mine). These questions certainly apply. El Marko, the White Knight (nay the kkk typeology - think King Arthur riding a turbo Magna Carta horse), or Don Quixote.