From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 15 10:19:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i5FEJ0a6008316 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:19:00 -0400 Message-Id: <200406151419.i5FEJ0a6008316@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 27301 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 14:18:59 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 14:18:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:18:59 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0205" To: Chris Fearnley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Content-Length: 312328 Lines: 8564 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:11:29 +0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: m Subject: rare dome auction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > To: DonPiccard@USA.net > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > SHERIFF'S AUCTION OF A RARE VINTAGE WWII GLIDER AND GEODESIC DOME AIRCRAFT > HANGER > > > There is going to be a Sherburne County Sheriff's Auction (SGT Ken Imholte > #3505) at Leaders' Flying Service, 8948 - 95th Avenue, Clear Lake, MN 55319 > on May 14, at 1:30 p.m. in which a rare antique Laister Kauffman, TG-4A > glider, serial number 42-53033, order number AC-28995, date accepted 3-29-43 > and trailer are to be sold. The wings and tail feathers are believed to be > in good condition and the fuselage has had the fabric removed to be > reskinned. The trailer needs some work but can be made roadworthy. > > A large insulated geodesic dome hanger (35' long x 39' wide x 16.5' high, > over 1200 square feet) is also going to be auctioned and removed from the > airport property. The structure is pre-fabricated in triangular and > rectangular panels and is bolted together. It can be moved as a whole or > disassembled and moved and reconstructed. It contains a hot water radiant > floor heating system and a 200 amp electrical service. The entire hanger is > insulated with 6" of polyurethane foam sprayed-in-place insulation (R-42) > and taped and finished with 5/8" fire-rated sheetrock. It can be used for a > hanger or would make a great shop or workspace for anyone who needs a large > open area for machinery, equipment or vehicles. Over $40,000 in labor and > materials. > > Do you have a list of email addresses that you could provide to us or any > other method that you may feel appropriate to inform the aviation or local > community of this sale? We are quite sure that both of these properties are > going to go for a very low price and far below market value! > > We are trying to contact as many interested potential buyers as possible. > Please feel free to forward this message to anyone that think may be > interested in this rare and unique opportunity. > > If you need further information on either or both of these properties please > do not hesitate to contact me. Pictures of the hanger are available on > request. > > Sincerely, > > Clint Elston > 763-383-5136 > celston@equaris.com > > This information is intended for news media informational purposes. To > remove your name/address from this list, reply to this email replacing > Subject line with "Remove". > Yes, it is a glider, not a balloon, but Jack Laister was on the balloon ground crew Oct 22-23, 1934 as Ed Hill's assistant and courier. I remember him as a big teenager who was rather important and had valued work to do, while I was only a spectator. I guess I envied both him and "Fleur de Lis". - Don ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:00:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Wed May 1 00:00:01 PDT 2002. If you are tired of receiving this message once per month, and are reading bit.listserv.geodesic through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. Other lists that focuses more specifically on some of these topics can be found on the Reality Sculptors Website: http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC A web page to signon is available here: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/user/sub.html When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. 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Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) Web-searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:10:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one In-Reply-To: <200204291652.g3TGqN418951@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm looking for a 3D CAD (.iges or .step) model of a geodesic. Does anyone know of where I could get my hands on one? Or the math to assemble one would be great too. It's for a series of structures I'm building in SolidWorks and Bryce. Thanks, Leifur Thor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 12:51:08 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have some DGW files, maybe I could do a conversion. What frequency are you interested in ? Do you want a complete sphere or what level of truncation are you interested in ? -----Original Message----- From: Leif Thor [mailto:lthor@EARTHLINK.NET] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 11:11 AM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one I'm looking for a 3D CAD (.iges or .step) model of a geodesic. Does anyone know of where I could get my hands on one? Or the math to assemble one would be great too. It's for a series of structures I'm building in SolidWorks and Bryce. Thanks, Leifur Thor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 15:56:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC3931349B@pscserver3> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey thanks Tony! Why don't you send your DGW file first and I'll see if I can open it as is before converting it. As far as frequency, I haven't a clue. How about no panel larger than 6x6. I don't need complete spheres. I need two geodesics. One that's 100ft at base an 30ft high. The other needs to be 20ft wide by 6ft high. If I may ask, how do you make them (program/math equation)? Thanks, Leifur > From: Tony Kalenak > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 12:51:08 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one > > I have some DGW files, maybe I could do a conversion. > What frequency are you interested in ? > Do you want a complete sphere or what level of truncation are you interested > in ? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leif Thor [mailto:lthor@EARTHLINK.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 11:11 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one > > I'm looking for a 3D CAD (.iges or .step) model of a geodesic. Does anyone > know of where I could get my hands on one? Or the math to assemble one would > be great too. > > It's for a series of structures I'm building in SolidWorks and Bryce. > > Thanks, > > Leifur Thor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:22:25 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Liefur, I made them using data from an old Mac basic program I did in the 80's .Then I made an AutoLisp routine to plot the spherical coordinates generated by the geodesic program in x,y,z format that AutoCAD can easily operate with. After that I connected the dots to make one dome facet. This facet I arrayed around the axis from dome center to zenith. I did this for every icosacap. As to scale, you will need to take one of the 3d models and scale it up to the size you want and then check the strut/panel sizes (trial & error). I have frequencies from 2 to 16. I will send them to you via your email (or do you have an FTP site ?). There are programs around that may do all this for you with less fuss and bother. Any suggestions, anyone ? -Tony. -----Original Message----- From: Leif Thor [mailto:lthor@EARTHLINK.NET] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:56 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one Hey thanks Tony! Why don't you send your DGW file first and I'll see if I can open it as is before converting it. As far as frequency, I haven't a clue. How about no panel larger than 6x6. I don't need complete spheres. I need two geodesics. One that's 100ft at base an 30ft high. The other needs to be 20ft wide by 6ft high. If I may ask, how do you make them (program/math equation)? Thanks, Leifur > From: Tony Kalenak > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 12:51:08 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one > > I have some DGW files, maybe I could do a conversion. > What frequency are you interested in ? > Do you want a complete sphere or what level of truncation are you interested > in ? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leif Thor [mailto:lthor@EARTHLINK.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 11:11 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one > > I'm looking for a 3D CAD (.iges or .step) model of a geodesic. Does anyone > know of where I could get my hands on one? Or the math to assemble one would > be great too. > > It's for a series of structures I'm building in SolidWorks and Bryce. > > Thanks, > > Leifur Thor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 11:50:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 01-MAY-2002 11:50 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, I'd have sent you to Kirby's page for pointers to lots of models, but he seems to have dysappeared (and buried himself, perhaps only during the daytime .-) of course, there's Joe Moore's Buckafkapedia, from which you could link to John Hart's great site! thus quoth: I'm looking for a 3D CAD (.iges or .step) model of a geodesic. Does anyone know of where I could get my hands on one? Or the math to assemble one would be great too. It's for a series of structures I'm building in SolidWorks and Bryce. of course, there's my little intro to geometry, called /MiltonAcademy.html, if you can stand it, with plenty of those essential linkages. --les ducs d'Enorn! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:42:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC3931349F@pscserver3> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I had a feeling it wasn't going to be a simple answer about the math involved. It all sounds great except the scaling part. SolidWorks doesn't scale in any conventional manner. I could use Bryce though on the tail end where these are going to wind up eventually anyway. There's no real reason to marry them in SolidWorks during the first part. Are they larger than 1 meg to send (stuffed or zipped ok)? If so I'll email the ftp info. Unless someone out there has a better idea... Leifur > From: Tony Kalenak > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:22:25 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one > > Liefur, > I made them using data from an old Mac basic program I did in the 80's .Then > I made an AutoLisp routine to plot the spherical coordinates generated by > the geodesic program in x,y,z format that AutoCAD can easily operate with. > After that I connected the dots to make one dome facet. This facet I arrayed > around the axis from dome center to zenith. I did this for every icosacap. > > As to scale, you will need to take one of the 3d models and scale it up to > the size you want and then check the strut/panel sizes (trial & error). > I have frequencies from 2 to 16. I will send them to you via your email (or > do you have an FTP site ?). > > There are programs around that may do all this for you with less fuss and > bother. > > Any suggestions, anyone ? > > -Tony. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leif Thor [mailto:lthor@EARTHLINK.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:56 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one > > Hey thanks Tony! Why don't you send your DGW file first and I'll see if I > can open it as is before converting it. As far as frequency, I haven't a > clue. How about no panel larger than 6x6. I don't need complete spheres. I > need two geodesics. One that's 100ft at base an 30ft high. The other needs > to be 20ft wide by 6ft high. If I may ask, how do you make them > (program/math equation)? > > Thanks, > > Leifur > >> From: Tony Kalenak >> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >> Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 12:51:08 -0500 >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one >> >> I have some DGW files, maybe I could do a conversion. >> What frequency are you interested in ? >> Do you want a complete sphere or what level of truncation are you > interested >> in ? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Leif Thor [mailto:lthor@EARTHLINK.NET] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 11:11 AM >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one >> >> I'm looking for a 3D CAD (.iges or .step) model of a geodesic. Does anyone >> know of where I could get my hands on one? Or the math to assemble one > would >> be great too. >> >> It's for a series of structures I'm building in SolidWorks and Bryce. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Leifur Thor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:14:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: what? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 01-MAY-2002 13:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us why is this happening, over and over, again, to my messages?... I know, it's because PEN is going kaput, on purpose, accidentally. SUBJECT: Rejected posting to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU MESSAGE from ="L-Soft 01-MAY-20 11:42 LISTSERV does not allow the distribution of empty messages to a mailing list, because some users are unable to see the "Subject:" field from the original message. ------------------------ Rejected message (10 lines) -------------------------- Received: (qmail 20313 invoked from network); 1 May 2002 03:53:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us) (199.172.96.9) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 1 May 2002 03:53:53 -0000 Received: (from r001806@localhost) by pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us (8.10.0/8.10.0) id g3UL8u131063 for geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:08:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:08:56 -0700 From: Brian Hutchings Message-Id: <200204302108.g3UL8u131063@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:04:59 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one In-Reply-To: <200205011850.g41Iod201922@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Brian, I'll check that out too. Leifur > From: Brian Hutchings > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 11:50:39 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for 3D geodesics, or the math to assemble one >=20 > <> Brian =BFQuincy! Hutchings 01-MAY-2002 11:50 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >=20 > well, I'd have sent you to Kirby's page > for pointers to lots of models, but > he seems to have dysappeared (and buried himself, > perhaps only during the daytime .-) > of course, there's Joe Moore's Buckafkapedia, > from which you could link to John Hart's great site! >=20 > thus quoth: > I'm looking for a 3D CAD (.iges or .step) model of a geodesic. Does > anyone > know of where I could get my hands on one? Or the math to assemble one > would > be great too. >=20 > It's for a series of structures I'm building in SolidWorks and Bryce. >=20 > of course, there's my little intro to geometry, > called /MiltonAcademy.html, if you can stand it, > with plenty of those essential linkages. >=20 > --les ducs d'Enorn! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:09:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: People's Trust and Savings Dome Comments: To: Karl Hartig Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karl, I've been trying for several years to pin down the exact location of that bank dome (if it still exists) with no success. The closest I've come is an address on California Road, but no actual street number & no indication if East or West. I've searched aerial photos to no avail. The local newspaper and/or library may have some info, but I haven't tried that yet--been too busy updating my web site which I just did a week or so ago. If it is still a bank then it is probably called Bank One since they bought out Peoples. If you find out anything please let me know. PS: I love your collection of dome pics! ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Hartig" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 AM Subject: People's Trust and Savings Dome > Joe, > > I am trying to find the exact location of this dome. > Do you have more information? > > This seams to indicate that it still existed on Nov. 2001. > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-B.htm > > BANKS > > People's Trust and Savings 1960 > E California Rd. Fort Wayne, IN > 11-01 (bldg probably not used as a bank anymore) > > Any help would be greatly appreciated, > > thanks, > > Karl Hartig > > http://www.karlhartig.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 00:02:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: Geodesic Mirror Ball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:00 AM Subject: Geodesic Mirror Ball > From: "Rob Dougherty" > Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 02:40:08 -0600 > > This guy is putting a welded geodesic egg thing on top > of his castle. > http://www.chieftain.com/wednesday/news/index/article/5 > > The link will work for a week. After that you can search > the archives at www.chieftain.com for "castle" and "geodesic". > > > > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to > DOME at http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:13:04 +0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: m Subject: program dome specs at MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.desertdomes.com/rev3calc.html cheers malcolm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 23:08:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Where to find Googolplex Comments: To: "Wolf.Bryan" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bryan, This is from the Spring 1993 BFI newsletter re the Googolplex = model-building system: Arlington-Hews, Inc Box 23798 Vancouver Airport P.O. Richmond, BC, Canada V7B 1X9 604-273-2200 phone 604-278-0805 fax I did a search for Arlington-Hews in Dec 2000 with no success. I suspect they are out of business. Have you tried a patent search? = There is usually a patent associated with a model-building system. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wolf.Bryan=20 To: 'joe_s_moore@hotmail.com'=20 Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 10:00 AM Subject: Where to find Googolplex Greetings, I was searching the web for googolplex, made by Arlington-Hews. They = don't appear to have a website and their phone number is no longer in = service. As I saw googolplex referenced on your website, I thought I'd = ask you. Do you know if Arlington-Hews is still in business and if so, = how to contact them? Thanks, Bryan Wolf Feel free to contact me via any of these methods: e-mail: bryan.wolf@igt.com Daytime phone: (775) 448-1808 Evening phone: (775) 677-1304 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:45:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck In-Reply-To: <200205011850.g41Iod201922@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings > 01-MAY-2002 11:50 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > well, I'd have sent you to Kirby's page > for pointers to lots of models, but > he seems to have dysappeared (and buried himself, > perhaps only during the daytime .-) Maybe he is avoiding you. You are not the easiest person to get along with, ya think? Your too wacked. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:29:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Oops. <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 03-MAY-2002 17:29 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >yes, I do have an idea, but I can't find out, >due to a 2-year probation. you could send a note >to pen@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us or >support@pen.ci.santa-monica.ca.us or >some version thereof (the "2" is surrpetitcious, >and not my fault, either) -- >I'd be very happy if you did that, and >you can also look at the City's page, >under "Communication" for a list of adresses >that'd include the Info Sys Dept. >(from which I've been banned, >during my Council campaign .-) > >--les ducs d'Enron! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:46:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Global Poverty MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to Xavier Sala-i-Martin of Columbia University global poverty = has fallen in the last 30 years: $1/Day Standard in 1985 dollars: 1970.....550 million.....17% 1999.....350 million.....6.7% $2/Day Standard in 1985 dollars: 1970.....1.3 billion......41% 1999.....970 million....19% Ref: "The UN is Dead Wrong on Poverty & Inequality" by Robert J Barro, = Business Week, 5-6-02, pg 24 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 13:28:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] wise words from Jimmy Carter <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 04-MAY-2002 13:28 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us a lurid & dysgusting provocation is being visited to us, primarily the Jewish ones, of L.A. on Sunday -- Cinco de Mayo, which is unfortunately for this creep a very American celebration -- and not just of *the* US. the "emergency briefing/sepcial appeal" -- brunch at 10 and program at 11; "$50 couvert" -- is keynoted by the former PM, a truly-named 'Yahu! the fact that the coming elections are a choice between this guy and da Butcher, shows what is "up," I guess. well, that's what Jef saith. http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2002/2913on_mideast.html --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (still no fix on my index.html page) http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/site_packages/2002/sharon/020430sharon_crime _hist.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 14:11:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Jimmy's attack on \"Eratz Israel\" !?! <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 04-MAY-2002 14:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops; here's the URL for 'Yahu-ismites: http://www.JewishLA.org (sort-of moderate paper, I guess); http://www.HUC.org (ad on other side of page of first ad). --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:31:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] World Court <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 05-MAY-2002 14:31 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, what recourse is there in the Vienna Convention, if a treaty that was signed is inherently unconstitutional -- can you argue that its derogation of sovereignity is not so? when are we going to start extraditing the Sir Henry's of this nation, before it is too late to do so, outside of a suprantional, probably oligarchical organization, like the ICC? remember, the French Revolution was inspired by that of the USA, all though it became a gruesome mess for everyone but de Sade; was it a handsome mess, for him? , to be "freed" from the Bastille? thus quoth: Article 18 of the Vienna Convention requires signatory nations like the United States to refrain from taking steps to undermine treaties they sign, even if they do not ratify them. As with the treaty for the International Criminal Court, the United States signed but did not ratify the Vienna agreement. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/05/international/05TRIB.html?ex=1021601161& ei=1 &en=7a3a377fc6fc5284 --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (still no fix to index) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:37:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] World Court <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 05-MAY-2002 14:37 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, I rest from this case. thus quoth: He described the opportunity as similar to the United States Supreme Court's 1803 decision in Marbury v. Madison that courts could subject the other branches of government to its jurisdiction, decisively defining its role in the new nation. "This is an international Marbury versus Madison moment," he said. John R. Bolton, the under secretary of state for arms control, who has been a leading voice in opposing American participation in the International Criminal Court, wrote extensively about the subject before he took office, calling it "a product of fuzzy-minded romanticism" and "not just naove, but dangerous." Mr. Bolton, in an article in The National Interest in 1999, argued that the court would force the United States to forfeit some of its sovereignty and --les ducs d'Enron! >> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (still no fix to index) http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/05/international/05TRIB.html?ex=1021601161&ei= en=7a3a377fc6fc5284 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 08:59:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help me get what Bucky means here. Dick 415.10 Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, they for long missed the significant twoness of spherical unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic Table of the Elements. 415.11 When they finally learned that the inventory of data required the isolation of the neutron, they were isolating the concave. When they isolated the proton, they isolated the convex. 415.12 As is shown in the comparative table of closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the vector equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for each frequency, which is not provided by any other polyhedra, but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or earliest possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does so with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the octahedron closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, 34; the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the other two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having insufficient radius space within the triangulated inner void to accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This inherent disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both electron and neutron behavior identification relationships for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's requisite noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from the symmetrically nucleated aggregates. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:25:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The neutron and proton are the inside and the outside of the same thing. There are two functions, which are two parts of the same thing, the nucleus. Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help me > get what Bucky means here. > > Dick > > 415.10 > Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, they > for long missed the significant twoness of spherical > unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic > Table of the Elements. > > > 415.11 When they finally learned that the > inventory of data required the isolation of the neutron, > they were isolating the concave. When they isolated the > proton, they isolated the convex. > > > 415.12 As is shown in the comparative table of > closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the vector > equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for each > frequency, which is not provided by any other polyhedra, > but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or earliest > possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does so > with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the octahedron > closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, 34; > the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the other > two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron > and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, > devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having insufficient > radius space within the triangulated inner void to > accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This inherent > disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both > electron and neutron behavior identification relationships > for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's requisite > noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from the > symmetrically nucleated aggregates. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:20:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: translation <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 06-MAY-2002 14:19 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us since not even I (a-hem) am "up" on all of Buckafalogy, I can't say whether these numbers actually bear on atomic stuff, at all, and the alleged concavity of the neutron (and the convexity of the proton). it could just be inspired QBS. thus quoth: > 415.12 As is shown in the comparative table of > closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the vector > equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for each > frequency, which is not provided by any other polyhedra, > but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or earliest > possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does so > with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the octahedron > closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, 34; > the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the other > two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron > and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, > devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having insufficient > radius space within the triangulated inner void to > accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This inherent > disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both > electron and neutron behavior identification relationships > for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's requisite > noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from the > symmetrically nucleated aggregates. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (still no fix by Bumstead .-) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:24:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] CNN: Uncle Sam's propaganda organ <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 06-MAY-2002 14:24 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, wouldn't DoD stuff involve (if any) a liaison with the *D*IA ?? on the other hand, that's where Sir Henry the K. started *his* career -- speaking o'Deep Throats! actually, Friend Fred's foggy notion, that the CIA is somehow alone as a pinacle of covert monkeying-around, is the funny thing. thus quoth: Goodness, it's common knowledge, isn't it? We've got people like Noam Chomsky pointing it out to us , and ex-CIA officers writing books about how they used the media, and if all that fails, simply know the tree by the fruit that it bears. Compare before you buy. --les ducs d'Enron! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (still no fix by Bumstead .-) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 16:56:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Sirharoldene@SMC.edu? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 06-MAY-2002 16:56 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oops. I just missed *another* Bucky-related show, a lecture at SMC by Sir Harold on nanotechnology; he's the mister Kroto who uncovered Richardbuckminsterfullerene. sorry, as I meant to go (and to note it, here, before-hand .-) --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:34:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: People's Trust and Savings Dome Comments: To: Karl Hartig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karl, Thanks so very much for the info! I will add it to my database. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Hartig" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:03 PM Subject: Re: People's Trust and Savings Dome > Joe, > > I called the Allen County Public Library in Fort Wayne, > this is what they found: > > People's Trust and Savings Company > 600 E California Rd. Fort Wayne, IN 46805 > > between Clinton and Coldwater roads > > That section of E California Rd. changed to E Coliseum Blvd, > so the current address would be: > Peoples Trust > 600 E Coliseum Blvd, Fort Wayne, IN 46805-1218, US > > A travel company bought the dome from the bank, > they vacated the dome sometime between 1987 and 1990. > > in the aerial photos (Mapquest), that location now has > a different building, looks like the dome is gone. > Too bad, I was looking forward to seeing it. > > Here is a photo of the dome they have in their digital photo collection. > http://acpldl.acpl.lib.in.us/cgi-bin/db2www/acplphotos.d2w/PhotoDetails?PPID =2+20DL7+20LIBSRVR10+20ACPLPhotos16+20VNEMG+23BMGM27O$48 > > Karl > > > Joe S Moore wrote: > > > > Karl, > > > > I've been trying for several years to pin down the exact location of that > > bank dome (if it still exists) with no success. The closest I've come is an > > address on California Road, but no actual street number & no indication if > > East or West. I've searched aerial photos to no avail. The local newspaper > > and/or library may have some info, but I haven't tried that yet--been too > > busy updating my web site which I just did a week or so ago. If it is still > > a bank then it is probably called Bank One since they bought out Peoples. > > If you find out anything please let me know. > > > > PS: I love your collection of dome pics! > > > > ============================== > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > > ============================= > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karl Hartig" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 AM > > Subject: People's Trust and Savings Dome > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > I am trying to find the exact location of this dome. > > > Do you have more information? > > > > > > This seams to indicate that it still existed on Nov. 2001. > > > > > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-B.htm > > > > > > BANKS > > > > > > People's Trust and Savings 1960 > > > E California Rd. Fort Wayne, IN > > > 11-01 (bldg probably not used as a bank anymore) > > > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated, > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > Karl Hartig > > > > > > http://www.karlhartig.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:11:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: translation In-Reply-To: <3CD6CA82.4040305@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Whoa, Steve, I can almost wrap my brain around that. Of course, I'd first had to turn my brain inside out to do that. Thanks. Follow up question- Does the angle between a strut and the axis of the vertex it is connected to have a designation, a name or letter? Is it 180 degrees minus the central angle? Dick --- Steve Miller wrote: > The neutron and proton are the inside and the outside of > the same thing. > There are two functions, which are two parts of the same > thing, the nucleus. > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help > me > > get what Bucky means here. > > > > Dick > > > > 415.10 > > Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, > they > > for long missed the significant twoness of spherical > > unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic > > Table of the Elements. > > > > > > 415.11 When they finally learned that the > > inventory of data required the isolation of the > neutron, > > they were isolating the concave. When they isolated > the > > proton, they isolated the convex. > > > > > > 415.12 As is shown in the comparative > table of > > closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the > vector > > equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for > each > > frequency, which is not provided by any other > polyhedra, > > but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or > earliest > > possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does > so > > with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the > octahedron > > closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, > 34; > > the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the > other > > two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron > > and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, > > devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having > insufficient > > radius space within the triangulated inner void to > > accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This > inherent > > disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both > > electron and neutron behavior identification > relationships > > for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's > requisite > > noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from > the > > symmetrically nucleated aggregates. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > > -- > Formactive > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:39:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done" In-Reply-To: <20020507151142.28614.qmail@web20511.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yet I have no idea how to personally build a train, and then show it to anyone. So I'm going to take a risk and post a page with a rendering and information about an alternative high speed train that came about utilizing anticipatory design science. If anyone has any feedback or would like to help this concept come to being, I'm all ears. Here's the link- http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lthor/artifacts_rs2.html Here's what progress I've been able to make so far. 1.I've been in contact with Michael Dukakis who is currently the Vice Chair or Amtrak. He's shown interest, and wants a proposal. I've never done a formal proposal, and could use any help from anyone who has for a large project such as this. 2.Just yesterday I contacted Corinne Goodrich Manager, Strategic & Long Range Planning San Mateo County Transit District in CA. She was very interested and is showing to her engineers, and has promised to give me what feedback they have. That's it so far. I'm really making an effort to find people who can be advocates in high places in getting the word out to gain support, any put together whatever group necessary to take it to the next stage. If you have any questions or other suggestions, don't hold back. I'm also considering approaching other countries, due to the current lack of support for R&D in the US compared to countries like say Japan or some of the countries of Europe (it's like night and day). I think also Australia may be the best next target for gaining interest for such a project. Any input here for an alternative country is also appreciated. Oh and if anyone has an idea how to personally build a train, I'd like to hear about that one too. Didn't Bucky once say "Only the impossible is possible?" Thanks, Leifur Thor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:46:18 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit radius to strut is axial angle. I think it would be( 180-theta)/2 Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Whoa, Steve, I can almost wrap my brain around that. Of > course, I'd first had to turn my brain inside out to do > that. Thanks. > > Follow up question- Does the angle between a strut and the > axis of the vertex it is connected to have a designation, a > name or letter? Is it 180 degrees minus the central angle? > > Dick > > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > >>The neutron and proton are the inside and the outside of >>the same thing. >>There are two functions, which are two parts of the same >>thing, the nucleus. >> >>Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> >> >>>Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help >>> >>me >> >>>get what Bucky means here. >>> >>>Dick >>> >>>415.10 >>>Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, >>> >>they >> >>>for long missed the significant twoness of spherical >>>unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic >>>Table of the Elements. >>> >>> >>> 415.11 When they finally learned that the >>>inventory of data required the isolation of the >>> >>neutron, >> >>>they were isolating the concave. When they isolated >>> >>the >> >>>proton, they isolated the convex. >>> >>> >>> 415.12 As is shown in the comparative >>> >>table of >> >>>closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the >>> >>vector >> >>> equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for >>> >>each >> >>>frequency, which is not provided by any other >>> >>polyhedra, >> >>>but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or >>> >>earliest >> >>>possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does >>> >>so >> >>>with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the >>> >>octahedron >> >>>closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, >>> >>34; >> >>>the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the >>> >>other >> >>>two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron >>> and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, >>>devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having >>> >>insufficient >> >>>radius space within the triangulated inner void to >>>accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This >>> >>inherent >> >>> disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both >>>electron and neutron behavior identification >>> >>relationships >> >>>for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's >>> >>requisite >> >>>noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from >>> >>the >> >>>symmetrically nucleated aggregates. >>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness >>>http://health.yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >> Formactive >>http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:16:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: translation In-Reply-To: <3CD8836A.6000506@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Steve Miller wrote: > radius to strut is axial angle. I think it would be( > 180-theta)/2 Thanks, axial angle it is. And is there letter assigned to it, or can I call it beta? I call the angular deficit alpha. Is that already used? What is theta? Central angle? > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > Whoa, Steve, I can almost wrap my brain around that. Of > > course, I'd first had to turn my brain inside out to do > > that. Thanks. > > > > Follow up question- Does the angle between a strut and > the > > axis of the vertex it is connected to have a > designation, a > > name or letter? Is it 180 degrees minus the central > angle? > > > > Dick > > > > > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > > > >>The neutron and proton are the inside and the outside > of > >>the same thing. > >>There are two functions, which are two parts of the > same > >>thing, the nucleus. > >> > >>Dick Fischbeck wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help > >>> > >>me > >> > >>>get what Bucky means here. > >>> > >>>Dick > >>> > >>>415.10 > >>>Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, > >>> > >>they > >> > >>>for long missed the significant twoness of spherical > >>>unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the > Periodic > >>>Table of the Elements. > >>> > >>> > >>> 415.11 When they finally learned that the > >>>inventory of data required the isolation of the > >>> > >>neutron, > >> > >>>they were isolating the concave. When they isolated > >>> > >>the > >> > >>>proton, they isolated the convex. > >>> > >>> > >>> 415.12 As is shown in the comparative > >>> > >>table of > >> > >>>closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the > >>> > >>vector > >> > >>> equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for > >>> > >>each > >> > >>>frequency, which is not provided by any other > >>> > >>polyhedra, > >> > >>>but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or > >>> > >>earliest > >> > >>>possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it > does > >>> > >>so > >> > >>>with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the > >>> > >>octahedron > >> > >>>closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, > >>> > >>34; > >> > >>>the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the > >>> > >>other > >> > >>>two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron > >>> and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, > >>>devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having > >>> > >>insufficient > >> > >>>radius space within the triangulated inner void to > >>>accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This > >>> > >>inherent > >> > >>> disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both > >>>electron and neutron behavior identification > >>> > >>relationships > >> > >>>for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's > >>> > >>requisite > >> > >>>noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from > >>> > >>the > >> > >>>symmetrically nucleated aggregates. > >>> > >>>__________________________________________________ > >>>Do You Yahoo!? > >>>Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > >>>http://health.yahoo.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>-- > >> Formactive > >>http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl > >> > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > > -- > Formactive > http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:57:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: randome graphic, I wish Comments: To: domehome , Patrick Salsbury , cheap shelter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is a picture I found. It is a perfect rendering of what I have been calling a randome. It is an n-geodesic sphere, where n is the number of vertexes. Geodesic spheres do not need to be some subdivision of the icosahedron. http://www.vislab.usyd.edu.au/gallery/mathematics/sphere/sphere.html Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:24:11 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Laminar Geodesic Dome Patent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have just posted a PDF file of Fullers Laminar Geodesic Dome Patent to my web site. It is a 6 mb file, so be patent. http://cableone.net/amkalenak/laminar%20dome%20patent.pdf -Tony. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:31:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: translation <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 12:31 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us presuming that "axis of the vertex" means the line to the center (of a centrally-symmetical polyasteron, a-hem), you really ought to wirk that out, more carefully. Steve's stab at that mumbo-jumbo is good, but what in hell does it mean (and is it even accurate as far as Buckafka's **** goes ?-) thus quoth: > radius to strut is axial angle. I think it would be( > 180-theta)/2 Thanks, axial angle it is. And is there letter assigned to it, or can I call it beta? I call the angular deficit alpha. Is that already used? What is theta? Central angle? > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > Whoa, Steve, I can almost wrap my brain around that. Of > > course, I'd first had to turn my brain inside out to do > > that. Thanks. any angle subtracted from 180 degrees is its "supplementary" angle. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:00:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] CNN: Uncle Sam's propaganda organ <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 13:00 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us both of you are over-rating the poor USA intelligence services by a large factor, and should look else-wheh (a-hem; does "Austin Powers" mean any thing to you, other than an English name ?-) thus quoth: on the news. ONLY that which is against Chavez is reported, and people are being 'brainwahsed' to believe that Chavez has lost popular support, when on the streets its obvious that everyone who isn't rich from a corrupt multinational is FOR Chavez!! Vanessa from Venezuela --- Uncle Fred escribis: > > > On 7 May 2002, at 22:01, j/kbooth wrote: > > ....and Fred agrees as he > > has written that since the CIA prepares materials > for > > release to journalists, the CIA "controls" the > media. . > > > They don't just "prepare" the materials. I never > said they just > prepare the materials. They *deliver* the materials > and the materials > are broadcast. They have spent decades infiltrating > the major news > media and altering textbooks on journalism to build > an atmosphere --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:04:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: randome graphic, I wish <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 13:04 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this doesn't make any sense; did you read what this site says about itself? sheesh. thus quoth: Here is a picture I found. It is a perfect rendering of what I have been calling a randome. It is an n-geodesic sphere, where n is the number of vertexes. Geodesic spheres do not need to be some subdivision of the icosahedron. http://www.vislab.usyd.edu.au/gallery/mathematics/sphere/sphere.html --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:12:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done" <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 13:12 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us one can see the basic idea, but lots of questions come up: how does it brake (esp. emergency) ?? is one. if you really *have* this idea, then you should try to patent & market it, sooner. thus quoth: Here's the link- http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lthor/artifacts_rs2.html Here's what progress I've been able to make so far. 1.I've been in contact with Michael Dukakis who is currently the Vice Chair or Amtrak. He's shown interest, and wants a proposal. I've never done a formal proposal, and could use any help from anyone who has for a large project such as this. 2.Just yesterday I contacted Corinne Goodrich Manager, Strategic & Long Range Planning San Mateo County Transit District in CA. She was very interested and is showing to her engineers, and has promised to give me what feedback they have. check out what's-his-names maglev technology, to see what you're up against, at http://21stcenturysciencetech.com/ --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:18:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] CNN: Uncle Sam's propaganda organ <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 13:18 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is for the Venezuelan Yahoo! (tm) (just kidding, ms. Esperanza, but that online outlet for Reuters is perfectly indicative of who "spews" the media.) thus quoth: A Coup That Failed As uniquely chronicled by EIR from the outset, London and Wall Street sponsored Chavez's rise to power in Venezuela in 1999, as a key piece in a project to unleash Jacobin narco-terrorism as their battering ram against the institutions which sustain the nation-states of the Americas. Chavez enjoyed enormous popularity then, in February 1999; but as he razed one institution after another in the name of a "Bolivarian Revolution" which, despite the rhetoric, adhered to International Monetary Fund austerity programs as strictly as any "neo-liberal" government, opposition began to build. A stacked Constituent Assembly rewrote the Constitution, and replaced the Congress with an equally-stacked National Assembly, which ran roughshod over any real debate. Chavez's "legal" experts explicitly cited the theories of the "crown jurist of Nazi Germany," Carl Schmitt, as the legal basis for Chavez's moves against all opposition. At the same time, the country become a safe haven for Colombian narco-terrorists. The "Bolivarian Circles," the regime's shocktroops, were funded better than its soldiers. Ordinary Venezuelans became frightened. On April 11, more than half a million, from every social strata and of every age, marched through Caracas to the Presidential palace of Miraflores, where they demanded Chavez's resignation. It was the third day of what had begun as a 24-hour general strike, called by the Venezuelan Labor Federation (CTV) and the leading business federation, Fedecamaras, and backed by more than 40 civil organizations and opposition political parties. Called to support an ongoing strike of workers and managers at the state oil company Petrsleos de Venezuela, S.A. (Pdvsa), the general strike demanded such elementary rights as democracy, political tolerance, and freedom of expressionall destroyed by Chavez's fascist populism. When the demonstrators neared the Presidential palace, where thousands of Chavez followers were already congregated, they were met by snipers posted in surrounding buildings, who killed more than ten demonstrators; hundreds were wounded. Learning of these bloody events, a grouping of anti-Chavez military forces, headed by Vice Admiral Hictor Rammrez Pirez, chief of staff of the Navy, issued a message to the nation, urging Chavez's resignation. A short time later, Army commander Gen. Eframn Vasquez Velasco, with other members of the High Command, blamed Chavez for the deaths, and demanded his resignation. They invoked Articles 328 and 350 of Venezuela's 1999 Constitution, which oblige the Armed Forces to guarantee Constitutional order, and proclaim the right of rebellion against the government, when the latter has violated that Constitutional order. They insisted they were defending that order, and that "this is not a coup d'itat." Hours later, it was announced that Chavez had resigned, and that the new provisional President would be Pedro Carmona Estanga, the head of Fedecamaras. In a matter of hours, the Bush government in Washington publicly supported the new Venezuelan government. The Counter-Coup http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2916venez.html --les ducs d'Enron! >> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:27:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 13:27 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us here's closer to what you want, herr "Dick." (which I found on the page that you sent.) http://www.maths.unsw.edu.au/~rsw/Sphere/#WWW in particular, Ed Saff's homes page on "Sphere Points" -- still no so-called randome BS, though; that just does not compute, so get the Hell over it! --les ducs d'Enron! >>> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (still no fix on idex.html) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:00:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done" In-Reply-To: <200205082012.g48KCwH13045@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I followed the link, and unfortunately found nothing about MAG LEV TRAINS. MAGLEVS have so many disadvantages however that it's hard to put these in the same category. MAGLEVS still use large heavy body trains and the technology of using electromagnetic energy (which in large doses is harmful to a great many things) to combat gravity versus utilizing our atmosphere (which is free and keeps us alive) to separate a vehicle from a track is an easy sell to any engineer. To answer your question about braking. The vehicle is powered by a motor that is attached to the rail itself. The vehicle is attached to the motor b= y a boom (a non flexible member) and there is a boom on the tail end as well for added control. And I do really "have" this idea. It's patent pending, and I'd love to market it. It's not like selling a yo yo though. That's why I'm asking the group for any support they can offer. I decided I'd go to the groups that could comprehend the usefulness of such an invention to begin gaining support. Yet from the lack of response I think I may have submitted a subject that is not what this group is about, and I apologize to the group for doing so. Is there a mission statement of what this list serve is for? Thanks for your interest Brian. If you have any further questions or comments, I'm happy to respond. =20 > From: Brian Hutchings > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:12:58 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done= " >=20 > <> Brian =BFQuincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 13:12 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >=20 > one can see the basic idea, but > lots of questions come up: > how does it brake (esp. emergency) ?? is one. > if you really *have* this idea, > then you should try to patent & market it, > sooner. >=20 > thus quoth: > Here's the link- > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lthor/artifacts_rs2.html >=20 > Here's what progress I've been able to make so far. >=20 > 1.I've been in contact with Michael Dukakis who is currently the Vice > Chair > or Amtrak. He's shown interest, and wants a proposal. I've never done a > formal proposal, and could use any help from anyone who has for a large > project such as this. >=20 > 2.Just yesterday I contacted Corinne Goodrich > Manager, Strategic & Long Range Planning > San Mateo County Transit District in CA. She was very interested and is > showing to her engineers, and has promised to give me what feedback they > have. >=20 > check out what's-his-names maglev technology, > to see what you're up against, > at http://21stcenturysciencetech.com/ >=20 > --les ducs d'Enron! >> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:38:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205082027.g48KR7n13208@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > here's closer to what you want, herr "Dick." Yes, this is great, too. > > (which I found on the page that you sent.) > > http://www.maths.unsw.edu.au/~rsw/Sphere/#WWW > > in particular, Ed Saff's homes page on "Sphere Points" > -- still no so-called randome BS, though; I am not saying he knows anything about what I am working on. I just say he found the same thing I found, except he is not familiar with Bucky, I don't think. We are both dealing with distributing n vertexes on the surface of a sphere. What don't you get? > that just does not compute, so get the Hell over it! > > --les ducs d'Enron! > >>> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > (still no fix on idex.html) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 18:48:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Edge-tangent polytope MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brian- Here is the proof, I think, you've wanted regarding the alleged randome construction technique. Read it and weep. Just how many vertexes does that polytope have, anyway? Thanks for all your help! http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/junkyard/self.html Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:29:39 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Fischbeck wrote: > --- Steve Miller wrote: > >>radius to strut is axial angle. I think it would be( >>180-theta)/2 >> > > Thanks, axial angle it is. And is there letter assigned to > it, or can I call it beta? No letter assigned to it. I call the angular deficit > alpha. Is that already used? > > What is theta? Central angle? Yes > > >>Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> >> >>>Whoa, Steve, I can almost wrap my brain around that. Of >>>course, I'd first had to turn my brain inside out to do >>>that. Thanks. >>> >>>Follow up question- Does the angle between a strut and >>> >>the >> >>>axis of the vertex it is connected to have a >>> >>designation, a >> >>>name or letter? Is it 180 degrees minus the central >>> >>angle? >> >>>Dick >>> >>> >>>--- Steve Miller wrote: >>> >>> >>>>The neutron and proton are the inside and the outside >>>> >>of >> >>>>the same thing. >>>>There are two functions, which are two parts of the >>>> >>same >> >>>>thing, the nucleus. >>>> >>>>Dick Fischbeck wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help >>>>> >>>>> >>>>me >>>> >>>> >>>>>get what Bucky means here. >>>>> >>>>>Dick >>>>> >>>>>415.10 >>>>>Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>they >>>> >>>> >>>>>for long missed the significant twoness of spherical >>>>>unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the >>>>> >>Periodic >> >>>>>Table of the Elements. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 415.11 When they finally learned that the >>>>>inventory of data required the isolation of the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>neutron, >>>> >>>> >>>>>they were isolating the concave. When they isolated >>>>> >>>>> >>>>the >>>> >>>> >>>>>proton, they isolated the convex. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 415.12 As is shown in the comparative >>>>> >>>>> >>>>table of >>>> >>>> >>>>>closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>vector >>>> >>>> >>>>> equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for >>>>> >>>>> >>>>each >>>> >>>> >>>>>frequency, which is not provided by any other >>>>> >>>>> >>>>polyhedra, >>>> >>>> >>>>>but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or >>>>> >>>>> >>>>earliest >>>> >>>> >>>>>possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it >>>>> >>does >> >>>>so >>>> >>>> >>>>>with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>octahedron >>>> >>>> >>>>>closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>34; >>>> >>>> >>>>>the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>other >>>> >>>> >>>>>two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron >>>>> and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, >>>>>devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having >>>>> >>>>> >>>>insufficient >>>> >>>> >>>>>radius space within the triangulated inner void to >>>>>accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This >>>>> >>>>> >>>>inherent >>>> >>>> >>>>> disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both >>>>>electron and neutron behavior identification >>>>> >>>>> >>>>relationships >>>> >>>> >>>>>for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's >>>>> >>>>> >>>>requisite >>>> >>>> >>>>>noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from >>>>> >>>>> >>>>the >>>> >>>> >>>>>symmetrically nucleated aggregates. >>>>> >>>>>__________________________________________________ >>>>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>>>Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness >>>>>http://health.yahoo.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>> Formactive >>>>http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl >>>> >>>> >>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness >>>http://health.yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >> Formactive >>http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:44:33 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help me > get what Bucky means here. > > Dick > > 415.10 > Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, they > for long missed the significant twoness of spherical > unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic > Table of the Elements. > > > 415.11 When they finally learned that the > inventory of data required the isolation of the neutron, > they were isolating the concave. When they isolated the > proton, they isolated the convex. > > > 415.12 As is shown in the comparative table of > closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the vector > equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for each > frequency, which is not provided by any other polyhedra, > but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or earliest > possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does so > with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the octahedron > closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, 34; > the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the other > two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron > and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, > devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having insufficient > radius space within the triangulated inner void to > accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This inherent > disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both > electron and neutron behavior identification relationships > for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's requisite > noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from the > symmetrically nucleated aggregates. > You understood this last part, right? > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 20:49:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] CNN: Uncle Sam's propaganda organ <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 20:49 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, do you woner what in Hell They (Nancy S. and co.) are going to do with a remake of "The Manchurian Candidate?" hint: we just had 3 of'em in the 2000 election, with the near-complete "corporate" merger of the Dem and Rep parties, thanks to pre- and post- decisions of the Surpeme Court (see my site for details; obviously, the "politique" button). --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 20:57:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 20:57 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us what I don't get is, that there is any thing to get in this endless bilge you pump! "Energy hath shape, you silly QBS artistes!" --me and Buckafka Fullofit thus quoth: I am not saying he knows anything about what I am working on. I just say he found the same thing I found, except he is not familiar with Bucky, I don't think. We are both dealing with distributing n vertexes on the surface of a sphere. What don't you get? > that just does not compute, so get the Hell over it! > > --les ducs d'Enron! > >>> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > (still no fix on idex.html) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 21:00:04 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 08-MAY-2002 21:00 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us what are you blabbing about, now? this is awhole "junkyard," and i couldn't gloss any thing that partivularly realtes to your urban meth o'randomes-cum-vertons-cum-QBS. thus quoth: Brian- Here is the proof, I think, you've wanted regarding the alleged randome construction technique. Read it and weep. Just how many vertexes does that polytope have, anyway? Thanks for all your help! http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/junkyard/self.html --les ducs d'Enron! > > >>> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > > (still no fix on idex.html) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:41:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: People's Trust and Savings Dome Comments: To: Karl Hartig Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karl, I went through my dome files & selected 64 that I thought you might be interested in. I only included the lower 48 United states & I excluded the ones you already have. STATE....CITY.......................DOME.............YEAR.......COMMENT AL...Montgomery...Alabama State Univ.....1991.....Health Complex AZ...Flagstaff..........Northern Arizona Univ...1977...Skydome AZ...Springerville...Round Valley HS...........19__...Football Stadium AZ...Tempe............Valley National Bank.....1962...Bank AZ...Yucca..............Spherical House............19__...Private Home CA...Auburn............Placer County Adm.............1966.....Offices CA...Dublin?...........PG&E Technology Cntr......19__.....Test Center CA...Hollywood......Cinerama Theater..............1963......Theater CA...Fairfield...........Mt Carmel Church...............19__.....Church CA...Long Beach...Spruce Goose......................1982.....Airplane Hangar CA...Los Angeles..Crenshaw Christian Cntr..2000......Church CA...Mojave............Calif Portland Cement Co..1980?...Storage Facility CA...Monolith..........C.B.R. Cement Company...1990....Storage Facility CA...San Diego......Nautilus Pavilion.................19__.....Seaworld CA...San Marcos...Palomar College.................1962?...Gym CT...Storrs.............Univ of Connecticut.........1989.....Sports Center FL...Miami................Parrot Jungle..................19__......Aviary FL...Miami................Seaquarium....................1962?...Skybreak FL...Orlando............Epcot Greenhouse.........19__.....Greenhouse FL...St Petersburg..Aquatarium......................19__.....Skybreak FL...Tampa..............Busch Gardens Aviary...1962?...Exists? IA...Des Moines.....Botanical Center..........19__...Greenhouse IL...Edwardsville..SIU Religious Center...1969.......Geoscope IN...Indianapolis...Indianapolis Zoo.....1998?.....Desert Dome KS...Topeka..........Topeka Zoo.......19__.......Tropical Rain Forest LA...New Orleans...Louisiana Superdome...1975...Geodesic? MA...Westford..........Haystack Observatory......19__......Radome MA...Woods Hole....Nautilus Restaurant........1954......Restaurant MI...Jackson...Jackson Community Coll..1977...Space & Science Cntr MI...Marquette...Northern Michigan Univ...1991...Superior dome MO...St Louis...St Louis Zoo.........................2001....Butterfly Wing NB...Omaha.....Omaha Zoo..........................2002....Desert Dome NC...Asheboro.....North Carolina Zoo..............19__.....Aviary NC...Charlotte......Victory Christian Center......2001.....Church NE...York.....Sewage Treatment Plant...19__...Settling Pond Cover NJ...Hightstown...Ethel McKnight School....1970...Elementary School NV...Las Vegas...Aladdin Theater...........19__....Aladdin Resort NV...Las Vegas...Caesar's Palace.........1969....Theater NV...Reno.............Pioneer Auditorium....1970....Auditorium NV...Reno.............Silver Legacy...............19__....Resort/Casino NY...Hempstead....Hofstra University...............19__.....Health Center NY...Niagara Falls...Corborundum Company...19__.....Factory NY...Ogdenburg.....Golden Dome.....................19__....Sports Complex OH...Cleveland...Cleveland Zoo...................1979.....The Rain Forest OH...Cleveland..NASA Glenn Research Cntr..19__..Aero Acoustic Propulsion Lab OH...Copley.........Copley High School.............19__....High School OK...Oklahoma City...Sewage Treatment Plant...19__...Settling Pond Cover OK...Pryor...................Graham Nat'l Foundation....19__...Offices OK...Tulsa.................Oral Roberts University........19__....Auditorium OR...Portland....Columbia Park Pool...19__...Swimming Pool OR...Portland....Univ of Portland...........1984...Chiles Center TX...Austin........Dominion Pictures Studio...19__....Soundstages TX...Belton........Bell Co Expo Center............1986...Multi-Purpose Arena TX...Dallas.........Antares Restaurant............1978...Atop Reunion Tower TX...Ft Worth........Caravan of Dreams...........1983...Theater TX...Houston.........Kamric/Cinergy Studios...1985...Soundstages TX...San Antonio...Shamn Stadium..............19__...Seaworld TX...Waco......Baylor University......1988...Ferrell Special Events Cntr UT...Salt Lake City...University of Utah...19__...Huntsman Center VA...Lynchburg.....Liberty University.................1990...Vines Center WA...Seattle........Woodland Park Zoo......19__...Tropical Rain Forest WA...Tacoma.......Tacoma Dome.............1983...Multi-Purpose Arena WA...Walla Walla...Walla Walla Comm Coll..19__...Junior College WY..Sheridan..Northern Wyoming Comm Coll..19__...Hoffman Golden Dome ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Hartig" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:16 PM Subject: Re: People's Trust and Savings Dome > Joe, > > If you know of any other fuller domes from the 50's, 60's or > early 70's please let me know were it is and I try to go and > take pictures of it. I'm trying to document the surviving > early domes, before they're all destroyed. > > Thanks, > > Karl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:52:53 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: translation In-Reply-To: <3CD9F0A1.3060502@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Steve Miller wrote: > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help > me > > get what Bucky means here. > > > > Dick > > > > 415.10 > > Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, > they > > for long missed the significant twoness of spherical > > unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic > > Table of the Elements. > > > > > > 415.11 When they finally learned that the > > inventory of data required the isolation of the > neutron, > > they were isolating the concave. When they isolated > the > > proton, they isolated the convex. > > > > > > 415.12 As is shown in the comparative > table of > > closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the > vector > > equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for > each > > frequency, which is not provided by any other > polyhedra, > > but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or > earliest > > possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does > so > > with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the > octahedron > > closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, > 34; > > the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the > other > > two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron > > and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, > > devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having > insufficient > > radius space within the triangulated inner void to > > accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This > inherent > > disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both > > electron and neutron behavior identification > relationships > > for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's > requisite > > noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from > the > > symmetrically nucleated aggregates. > > > > > You understood this last part, right? Not really, but I have a sense that the icosa is incompatabile with a nucleus. Something to do with jitterbugging the VE, or closest sphere packing. I am starting to think that icosahedral sphere packings can be accounted for in concentric shells of spheres. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:01:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I SAID in the subject line, "Edge-tangent polytope." That's where you were supposed to look. Are you serious about this discussion or no? Look at the picture and count the vertexes, please. And read the text about it. It is exactly what I could not explain to you about a randome, aka polyasteron. r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us what are you blabbing about, now? this is awhole "junkyard," and i couldn't gloss any thing that partivularly realtes to your urban meth o'randomes-cum-vertons-cum-QBS. thus quoth: Brian- Here is the proof, I think, you've wanted regarding the alleged randome construction technique. Read it and weep. Just how many vertexes does that polytope have, anyway? Thanks for all your help! http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/junkyard/self.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:26:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 09-MAY-2002 14:26 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you'd posted this thing, before, and you still don't have any sort of hypothesis to go with it; so, What? thus quoth: Edge-tangent polytope illustrating Koebe's theorem that any planar graph can be realized as the set of tangencies between circles on a sphere. Placing vertices at points having those circles as horizons forms a polytope with all edges tangent to the sphere. Rendered by POVray. http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/junkyard/edgetan.png --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:25:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] CNN: Uncle Sam's propaganda organ <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 09-MAY-2002 15:25 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I just found that the book "by the political staff of the Washington Post," _Deadlock_, comes sort-of close to nubbin on why "Goreworld" went down to such ignominious defeat, starting at the square dot on p194: it actually touches upon the Voting Rights Act, but of course doesn't bother to mention the *case* over that Goreworld fought, and won, courtesy of a unanimous Supreme Court decision (March 27, 2001). of course, this is a pristine case that shows that CNN et al are hardly the best sources for the interst of "Uncle Sam," if that means the U.S. of A., although they certainly are wont to fight for *some* interest. I was alos just looking at Dershowitz' book on this, and he goes every where *but* the Voting Rights Act. *The Economist* is probably the most horrid, in terms of reviews of books on this subjectum, since they totally ignored Bugliosi's -- presumably by the unstated excuse that it was published only in paperback (_The Betrayal of America_, based upon teh original *The Nation* article, "None Dare Call It, Treason"). have you seen their silly brochure that uses "the butterfly theory" and all sorts of ludcrous pro-hominem prose, about how elite you'll be when you start to read from their 4-issue freebie? things taht make y'go, Whew!, and hold y'nose. re below, make that 5 of'em, including Keyes and the afraid-of-primaries Nader. thus saith: hint: we just had 3 of'em in the 2000 election, with the near-complete "corporate" merger of the Dem and Rep parties, thanks to pre- and post- decisions of the Surpeme Court (see my site for details; obviously, the "politique" button). --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (still no fix on my index page, 4 weeks & counting; selcome to Bumstead Impersonal !-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:32:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 09-MAY-2002 15:32 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I can't find it, either, and it was on the cover of a recent issue! you are simply wrong about it though, as this maglev is quite failsafe, as designed; you're probably wrong about EMF, as well, in the amounts required to go 600mph. remember, maglev is inherently regenerative of KE to EMF. actually, your motor'd be linear induction motor, as well; eh? thus quoth: MAGLEVS have so many disadvantages however that it's hard to put these in the same category. MAGLEVS still use large heavy body trains and the technology of using electromagnetic energy (which in large doses is harmful to a great many things) to combat gravity versus utilizing our atmosphere (which is free and keeps us alive) to separate a vehicle from a track is an easy sell to any engineer. To answer your question about braking. The vehicle is powered by a motor that is attached to the rail itself. The vehicle is attached to the motor by a boom (a non flexible member) and there is a boom on the tail end as well for added control. --les ducs d'Enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > (still no fix on my index page, 4 weeks & counting; > selcome to Bumstead Impersonal !-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:31:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done In-Reply-To: <200205092232.g49MWON27181@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Failsafe or not. Nature utilizes the atmosphere for her creations far more than with electromagnetic energy. And air is regenerative without expending a single watt of electricity. My design is also based on a comprehensive solution. It doesn't matter if maglev trains can allow a train to go 1,500 mph. If the design costs are as high per mile of track as they are, there's few who can afford it once it's in place, and that many fewer tracks to be constructed and maintained. My solution is to provide not only a safer train with a smoother ride, but to also provide it at a fraction of what train designers have on their drawing boards, allowing the potential for more lines of service (probably the single largest drawback for current train travel by the general public)= . Remember comprehensive, or better yet, comprehensive ephermeralization. Do you remember Bucky's analogy of hoarse breading. You may bread a faster horse, but the horse will lack in other critical areas of survivability. I believe the point is to provide a system that just makes plain sense. Now had the plane been invented before the train, my design might already be in place because it makes plain sense to take the technology of flight and apply it to a railed vehicle. I'm nobody special for coming up with the idea. I just happened to be the one to put two and two together about groun= d effect flight and the current need for updating our country's antiquated rail system. And I can not tell a lie, my three year old son loves trains, so they're in my face every day. In engineering, you're always working to reduce friction of parts, and make as few parts as possible. Why? Because it's what nature does and it makes plain sense. If you want examples, go look in your nearest garden, you'll see thousands.=20 > From: Brian Hutchings > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:32:24 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done >=20 > <> Brian =BFQuincy! Hutchings 09-MAY-2002 15:32 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >=20 > I can't find it, either, and > it was on the cover of a recent issue! > you are simply wrong about it though, as > this maglev is quite failsafe, as designed; > you're probably wrong about EMF, as well, > in the amounts required to go 600mph. remember, > maglev is inherently regenerative > of KE to EMF. > actually, your motor'd be linear induction motor, as well; > eh? >=20 > thus quoth: > MAGLEVS have so many disadvantages however that it's hard to put these in > the same category. MAGLEVS still use large heavy body trains and the > technology of using electromagnetic energy (which in large doses is > harmful > to a great many things) to combat gravity versus utilizing our atmosphere > (which is free and keeps us alive) to separate a vehicle from a track is > an > easy sell to any engineer. >=20 > To answer your question about braking. The vehicle is powered by a motor > that is attached to the rail itself. The vehicle is attached to the motor > by > a boom (a non flexible member) and there is a boom on the tail end as > well > for added control. >=20 > --les ducs d'Enron! >>> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html >> (still no fix on my index page, 4 weeks & counting; >> selcome to Bumstead Impersonal !-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:47:10 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Foerd Ames Subject: Re: miscellaniacs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not sure there's something specific to that exhibition on the web. = Maybe try milton.edu Foerd ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tony Kalenak=20 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 9:44 AM Subject: Re: miscellaniacs What is the URL ? -Tony. http://geodesemetry.net -----Original Message----- From: Foerd Ames [mailto:foerd@OWEC.COM] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 4:28 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: miscellaniacs I visited the RBF exhibit at Milton. It was excellent. Foerd ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:52:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Geodesic dome in need of restoration Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There's an article about Fuller's dome and Bill Perk in Carbondale, IL, = on today's MSNBC website! http://www.msnbc.com/news/748889.asp?0na=3Dx23DK4M0- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:52:59 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Bonnifield Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is this right ? (I haven't studied) Mag lev (and linear motors) have gaps between rail and armature of < 1 inch. There IS ground effect support in that gap but it is trivial compared to electromagnetic repulsion because the contact area is very small and designed for EM efficiency, not aerodynamic lift. Your train has mechanical contact between rail and motor (or it could be a linear motor I suppose), but the ground effect acts on the much larger surface area of the underside of the car, which rides >1 foot above the solid roadbed. The roadbed does not need to be nearly as precisely flat as a maglev rail, and the cargo weight is borne on the roadbed rather than the rail. Do you lay new rails? Without weight of wheels on steel, how do you get traction between motor and rail? from iron horse to breaded horse? yuk :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:54:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Iris & B. Gerald Cantor Center for Visual Arts at Stanford University MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An exhibit called "Buckminster Fuller & Friends" is currently on display = until June 30 at the Iris & B. Gerald Cantor Center for the Visual Arts = which is located on the campus of Stanford University. http://www.stanford.edu/dept/ccva/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:21:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done In-Reply-To: <200205100450.g4A4o0714136@ns1.planetc.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You're right in so many respects Lee. Great questions and comments. you mention- > Mag lev (and linear motors) have gaps between rail and armature of < 1 inch. > There IS ground effect support in that gap but it is trivial compared to > electromagnetic repulsion because the contact area is very small and > designed for EM efficiency, not aerodynamic lift. Yes your 100% correct. Train designers are fixated on avoidance of our atmosphere with the focus on elimination of parasitic drag, which is kind of funny in a way because they use to a large degree research about parasitic drag from the aviation industry while never considering the value of lift that the same drag can produce. Ground effect lift on a 1000 ton vehicle at any speed is virtually non existent. you also mentioned > Your train has mechanical contact between rail and motor (or it could be a > linear motor I suppose), but the ground effect acts on the much larger > surface area of the underside of the car, which rides >1 foot above the > solid roadbed. The roadbed does not need to be nearly as precisely flat as a > maglev rail, and the cargo weight is borne on the roadbed rather than the > rail. Yep, the weight is borne on the underside of the carriage and the roadbed once flying speed is reached. Ground effect is an interesting thing. When any of us have been in a boat that speeds up and attains planing speed, when planing speed is attained, the motor experiences less tension between the water and the motor because of parasidic drag reduction. Ground effect is kind of similar. All kinds of efficiencies kick in when a vehicle is in ground effect, because you are actually using the ground as you mentioned in an indirect way for assistance of lift. It's natures way of giving any flying mechanism (from bugs and birds to jets) a boost off the ground. If that boost can be maintained, all the savings that come from it are maximized. If anyone reading this doesn't understand ground effect (which I doubt, but just in case) here's the briefest explanation of I can find of one of natures greatest gifts... Any wing in flight sends off vortexes off the back of the wing. They look like a tornado on it's side. When these vortexes come in contact with another surface like the ground, a pressure builds up between the ground and the undersurface of the wing. This pressure creates a pillow of high pressure that acts upon on the lift the wing is already producing. Besides reducing fuel needed, ground effect produces a cushion of air that a wing can literally sit on i.e. very safe flying in even though just feet off the ground. It also transfers much of the weight carried to the ground through ground effect in an indirect fashion lessening the wear on the wing loading. And lastly you asked- > Do you lay new rails? Without weight of wheels on steel, how do you get > traction between motor and rail? Yes, current rails would not work. The rail for this system is designed for positive G traction, as well as negative G traction. Current rails are built only for positive load. The motor for this system is designed to transition from one to the other when flying speed is attained. Sounds complex, yet is pretty straightforward to build. And even though existing tracks would need to be replaced, new tracks could be laid that allow much higher gradients than existing tracks or even current highways have. This would translate to cheaper corridors to construct (less hill shaving bridge building etc.) Thanks for the iron horse and breaded horse analogy. Can I use that in literature for this concept? For more information about this string, go to- http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lthor/artifacts_rs2.html > From: Lee Bonnifield > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:52:59 -0400 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done > > Is this right ? (I haven't studied) > > Mag lev (and linear motors) have gaps between rail and armature of < 1 inch. > There IS ground effect support in that gap but it is trivial compared to > electromagnetic repulsion because the contact area is very small and > designed for EM efficiency, not aerodynamic lift. > > Your train has mechanical contact between rail and motor (or it could be a > linear motor I suppose), but the ground effect acts on the much larger > surface area of the underside of the car, which rides >1 foot above the > solid roadbed. The roadbed does not need to be nearly as precisely flat as a > maglev rail, and the cargo weight is borne on the roadbed rather than the > rail. > > Do you lay new rails? Without weight of wheels on steel, how do you get > traction between motor and rail? > > > from iron horse to breaded horse? yuk :-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:37:41 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lee Bonnifield Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Train designers are fixated on avoidance of our > atmosphere with the focus on elimination of parasitic drag, which is kind of > funny in a way because they use to a large degree research about parasitic > drag from the aviation industry while never considering the value of lift > that the same drag can produce. That IS funny! Race cars use wing "spoilers" to press the drive wheels down, for more traction; that makes sense since they can slide sideways on the track. But once you have a rail for guidance, lift seems like a good idea. Maybe you could germinate a source of R&D by finding an abandoned NASCAR track and fitting it with rails and inviting a new class of race car. Some drivers would scoff at not being able to steer but there would be plenty of excitement if they try out new equipment at 600 mph. > Thanks for the iron horse and breaded horse analogy. Can I use that in > literature for this concept? Sure, but you ought to rewrite it to make your point more clearly and run it through a spell checker -- I was just making a spelling joke! >> you remember Bucky's analogy of hoarse breading. You may bread a faster >> horse, but the horse will lack in other critical areas of survivability. You may "breed" a faster horse, and a horse that has been "bred" for speed may have other problems -- but a horse that has been "breaded" is ready to eat! :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 17:08:07 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done In-Reply-To: <200205110300.g4B30Q710744@ns1.planetc.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 11/5/02 2:37, Lee Bonnifield at lee@PLANETC.COM wrote: >> Thanks for the iron horse and breaded horse analogy. Can I use that in >> literature for this concept? > > Sure, but you ought to rewrite it to make your point more clearly and run it > through a spell checker -- I was just making a spelling joke! > >>> you remember Bucky's analogy of hoarse breading. You may bread a faster >>> horse, but the horse will lack in other critical areas of survivability. > > You may "breed" a faster horse, and a horse that has been "bred" for speed > may have other problems -- but a horse that has been "breaded" is ready to > eat! :-) Lee is right: this part of the text was just hilarious, but it was also ironic, given that the context was Fuller's injunction not to show stuff that was at a half-baked stage. In the US, I believe you talk about "horse sense"; here in the UK we might say, "use your loaf". Good luck with the train, anyway. Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:30:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Bucky Show Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have a link to the exhibit's page at http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html click on "Milton Academy" and look for the button on "Fuller/Sadao." _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 22:20:11 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Fischbeck wrote: > --- Steve Miller wrote: > >>Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> >> >>>Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help >>> >>me >> >>>get what Bucky means here. >>> >>>Dick >>> >>>415.10 >>>Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, >>> >>they >> >>>for long missed the significant twoness of spherical >>>unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic >>>Table of the Elements. >>> >>> >>> 415.11 When they finally learned that the >>>inventory of data required the isolation of the >>> >>neutron, >> >>>they were isolating the concave. When they isolated >>> >>the >> >>>proton, they isolated the convex. >>> >>> >>> 415.12 As is shown in the comparative >>> >>table of >> >>>closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the >>> >>vector >> >>> equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for >>> >>each >> >>>frequency, which is not provided by any other >>> >>polyhedra, >> >>>but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or >>> >>earliest >> >>>possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does >>> >>so >> >>>with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the >>> >>octahedron >> >>>closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, >>> >>34; >> >>>the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the >>> >>other >> >>>two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron >>> and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, >>>devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having >>> >>insufficient >> >>>radius space within the triangulated inner void to >>>accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This >>> >>inherent >> >>> disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both >>>electron and neutron behavior identification >>> >>relationships >> >>>for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's >>> >>requisite >> >>>noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from >>> >>the >> >>>symmetrically nucleated aggregates. >>> >>> >> >>You understood this last part, right? >> > > Not really, but I have a sense that the icosa is > incompatabile with a nucleus. Something to do with > jitterbugging the VE, or closest sphere packing. > > I am starting to think that icosahedral sphere packings can > be accounted for in concentric shells of spheres. The VE is the shape of closest packed spheres under pressure. Balls pack readily around it; it is isotropic vector matrix compatible. The icosa is a partially collapsed VE. It is stable by itself because the square faces have contracted into pairs of triangles. The VE is stabilized by adjacent VEs. It represents a limit of expansion. Other shapes are more awkward for adding layers of closest packing balls. When the limit of the Periodical Chart of the elements is nearly reached,another nucleus is formed, making the most complex elements unstable. Icosas are not capable of closest packing. They are contracted VEs. Steve > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > -- Formactive http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:40:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leif Thor Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Could you please explain that a little better??? The half baked part... > From: Paul Taylor > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 17:08:07 +0100 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Bucky always said "don't ever show anything before it's done > > on 11/5/02 2:37, Lee Bonnifield at lee@PLANETC.COM wrote: > >>> Thanks for the iron horse and breaded horse analogy. Can I use that in >>> literature for this concept? >> >> Sure, but you ought to rewrite it to make your point more clearly and run it >> through a spell checker -- I was just making a spelling joke! >> >>>> you remember Bucky's analogy of hoarse breading. You may bread a faster >>>> horse, but the horse will lack in other critical areas of survivability. >> >> You may "breed" a faster horse, and a horse that has been "bred" for speed >> may have other problems -- but a horse that has been "breaded" is ready to >> eat! :-) > > Lee is right: this part of the text was just hilarious, but it was also > ironic, given that the context was Fuller's injunction not to show stuff > that was at a half-baked stage. > > In the US, I believe you talk about "horse sense"; here in the UK we might > say, "use your loaf". > > Good luck with the train, anyway. > > > > Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:46:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Biosphere II Comments: To: Spencer W Hunter Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spencer, This Monday, May 13, is not good as my brother & his wife will be arriving on their way back from Mexico. They will be staying over for at least one night. But the next Monday is OK. I'm ready to visit Mt lemmon any time you think it is right. Links in my website are sprinkled--and I have cut them back to only about 250 from 2,500! Was not able to keep that many up to date. Unmanageable! Some new or updated sections are: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/1-Bibliography-TOC.htm (Itinerary) http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Ex-Ez.htm (Exhibits) http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/By-VisitsCountries-A-Z.htm (Lectures) Added pic captions: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/By-BkTOC-CriticalPath.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/By-BkTOC-TheDymaxionWorldOfBuckminste rFuller.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/By-BkTOC-IdeasAndIntegrities.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/By-BkTOC-TheDesignInitiative.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/About-BkTOC-BuckyWorks.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Biblio/About-BkTOC-Geodesics.htm Plus a lot of miscellaneous stuff too numerous to mention. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spencer W Hunter" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Biosphere II > Thanks! I'm usually free around noon on Mondays, if this coming Monday > would work to meet with you. > > As for a trip to Mt. Lemmon, I think sometime later in the summer (late > May or June) would be best. It's always a good break from the oppressive > heat of the valley. > > I checked out your web site for updates. Are web links to other Bucky > sites set off by themselves on a special page, or are they sprinkled > throughout the Master Index? > > Spencer Hunter, Library Specialist > gopher://www.u.arizona.edu:80/hGET%20/%7Eshunter > > On Thu, 9 May 2002, Joe S Moore wrote: > > > Spencer, > > > > I just found a small paper bag in the back seat of my car with a > > souvenir ball point pen inside. I think it was meant for your son. > > Let's do lunch (this time at some place near the University) & I can > > give it to you. > > > > Joe > > > > ============================== > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > > ============================= > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 23:52:39 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well, it looks as if MS/HateMe isn't forwarding my mail to the list -- blast them! --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html PS: I also noticed that the "sig file" has dysappeared from the interface! or maybe it's just that the button to be able to remove it is gone, although it should just appear as plaint text, as before. I guess, it's just as it says, now: "all outgoing mail will have it affixed!" _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 18:33:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Database of homes Comments: To: Kevin Shea Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageKevin, There is no official, comprehensive database of commercial and = residential domes. The best we have at the moment is my feeble attempt = to compile a list of notable domes of any type. See: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm There are three sections: The Index, Domes A to Z, and scrolling further = down Dome Manufacturers A to Z. Usually I include a brief description, = but not as extensive as you mention. =20 I'm not sure how one would compile such a list because some of the = information is private, and apparently the US Census Bureau doesn't = collect dome-only data. City & county building departments probably = have such data but one would have to contact each one individually. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kevin Shea=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 5:24 PM Subject: Database of homes Joe, Is there any database of existing commercial and residential geodesic = dome homes in the United States, full with their insurance policy, brief = description (size, style, etc), and unique story? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 18:38:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Links Comments: To: Jeff Hill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff, I used to have 2,500 links scattered throughout but I had to cut back to 250 for administrative reasons. I now only include the major Bucky-related organizations such as BFI, GENI, World Game, etc. And yes, I seem to have strayed from the customary use of the color blue; maybe I'll modify that in the future if it turns out to be a real problem. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hill" To: Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 3:29 PM Subject: Links > Hi Joe, > > I'm looking through your site and it's unclear to me where the links > are. Normally everything that's blue is a link but I can't seem to find > anything other than navigation links. > > j.o.hill > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:11:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: translation <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 13-MAY-2002 9:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us please, put your reply at the *beginning*, so that you don't *annoy* the upholders of ettiquette around here, with the gross formatting; thank YOU. thus quoth: Dick Fischstichk wrote: > --- Steve Miller wrote: > >>Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> >> >>>Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help >>> >>me >> >>>get what Bucky means here. >>> >>>Dick >>> >>>415.10 >>>Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, >>> >>they >> >>>for long missed the significant twoness of spherical >>>unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic >>>Table of the Elements. >>> >>> >>> 415.11 When they finally learned that the >>>inventory of data required the isolation of the >>> >>neutron, >> >>>they were isolating the concave. When they isolated >>> >>the >> >>>proton, they isolated the convex. >>> >>> >>> 415.12 As is shown in the comparative >>> >>table of >> >>>closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the >>> >>vector >> >>> equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for >>> >>each >> >>>frequency, which is not provided by any other >>> >>polyhedra, >> >>>but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or >>> >>earliest >> >>>possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does >>> >>so >> >>>with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the >>> >>octahedron >> >>>closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, >>> >>34; >> >>>the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the >>> >>other >> >>>two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron >>> and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, >>>devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having >>> >>insufficient >> >>>radius space within the triangulated inner void to >>>accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This >>> >>inherent >> >>> disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both >>>electron and neutron behavior identification >>> >>relationships >> >>>for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's >>> >>requisite >> >>>noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from >>> >>the >> >>>symmetrically nucleated aggregates. >>> >>> >> >>You understood this last part, right? >> > > Not really, but I have a sense that the icosa is > incompatabile with a nucleus. Something to do with > jitterbugging the VE, or closest sphere packing. > > I am starting to think that icosahedral sphere packings can > be accounted for in concentric shells of spheres. The VE is the shape of closest packed spheres under pressure. Balls pack readily around it; it is isotropic vector matrix compatible. The icosa is a partially collapsed VE. It is stable by itself because the square faces have contracted into pairs of triangles. The VE is stabilized by adjacent VEs. It represents a limit of expansion. Other shapes are more awkward for adding layers of closest packing balls. When the limit of the Periodical Chart of the elements is nearly reached,another nucleus is formed, making the most complex elements unstable. Icosas are not capable of closest packing. They are contracted VEs. Steve > > __________________________________________________ > I Do Yahoo! (tm) And IM1! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:20:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] NYTimes.com Article: So God's Really in the Detail <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 13-MAY-2002 9:20 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us if you look at *New Scientist* or *The Economist*, you'll see that the vested intersts of the (formerly know as) Holy British Empire just love to promote the most ridiculous, haphazard mathematical physics, this side of the inherent chaos of the floating-point works in most computers. just look at the brain-dead explanations of Fuzzy Logic, which is simply nothing *more* than an application of probability to boolean algebra (logic). my generic term for this official silliness is, the Ministry of QBS. of course. the underlaying BS is that of the Copenhagen school, which is exactly the same thing. thus quoth: So God's Really in the Details? May 11, 2002 By EMILY EAKIN Last month, Richard Swinburne, a professor of philosophy at Oxford University, invoked probability theory to defend the belief that Jesus was resurrected from the dead. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/11/arts/11GOD.html?ex=1022260573&ei=1&en=1a b32f7 bb964d686 HOW TO ADVERTISE --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:48:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 13-MAY-2002 9:48 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this reminds me of the last issue of *Mountain Astrologer*, which I was reading at the bookstore, yesterday; it' hilarious, as 2 or 3 features are devoted to trying to bridge the gap between "tropical" and "sidereal" astrology. the second author actually can work the two systems, and even has a great insight into Kepler's discernment of the angles between the planets, without reference to the "fixed" stars. however, it is really clear that these folks are treading water, and basically exist in the (commonplace) flat-earth conception that was codified by Ptolemy (which'd explain a lot, if it were even mentioned !-) the main thing about voodoo and astrology is that they're practices. I don't know about belief in the Great Pumpkin, though. thus quoth: But despite their intricate arguments, some critics including Christians worry that reformed epistemologists make it far too easy to justify any belief, no matter how absurd. Mr. Plantinga calls this the Great Pumpkin Objection. As he stated the problem in a seminal 1983 essay, "Reason and Belief in God": "If belief in God is properly basic, why cannot just any belief be properly basic? What about voodoo or astrology? What about the belief that the Great Pumpkin returns every Halloween? Could I properly take that as basic?" Bayes theorem, poo! --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:46:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Fw: Polyhedra exploration software tool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Michael Rowland" To: Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 1:18 PM Subject: Polyhedra exploration software tool > > Poly is a program for exploring and constructing polyhedra. > With Poly, you can manipulate polyhedral solids on the computer > in a variety of ways and then print flattened versions that you > can cut out, fold, and tape to produce three-dimensional models. > The new version adds Geodesic domes and spheres, support for STL, > JIF, and PCSX files, and more. > > This is a shareware application for Mac OS 7.5 through 9.2.2, > and for Windows versions 95 through XP. Shareware fee is $28. > > I haven't tried it yet, but it looks very useful. And there's a > nifty animation of a rhombicosidodecahedron on the Web site. > > http://www.peda.com/poly/ > > jmr > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > rowley@looknfeel.com www.looknfeel.com > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to > DOME at http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:32:04 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Right. Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 13-MAY-2002 9:11 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > please, put your reply at the *beginning*, > so that you don't *annoy* the upholders of ettiquette > around here, with the gross formatting; > thank YOU. > > thus quoth: > Dick Fischstichk wrote: > > > --- Steve Miller wrote: > > > >>Dick Fischbeck wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Does anyone understand this? I'd like someone to help > >>> > >>me > >> > >>>get what Bucky means here. > >>> > >>>Dick > >>> > >>>415.10 > >>>Because people thought of the nucleus only as oneness, > >>> > >>they > >> > >>>for long missed the significant twoness of spherical > >>>unity as manifest in the atomic weights in the Periodic > >>>Table of the Elements. > >>> > >>> > >>> 415.11 When they finally learned that the > >>>inventory of data required the isolation of the > >>> > >>neutron, > >> > >>>they were isolating the concave. When they isolated > >>> > >>the > >> > >>>proton, they isolated the convex. > >>> > >>> > >>> 415.12 As is shown in the comparative > >>> > >>table of > >> > >>>closest-packed, equiradius nucleated polyhedra, the > >>> > >>vector > >> > >>> equilibrium not only provides an orderly shell for > >>> > >>each > >> > >>>frequency, which is not provided by any other > >>> > >>polyhedra, > >> > >>>but also gives the nuclear sphere the first, or > >>> > >>earliest > >> > >>>possible, polyhedral symmetrical enclosure, and it does > >>> > >>so > >> > >>>with the least number__12 spheres; whereas the > >>> > >>octahedron > >> > >>>closest packed requires 18 spheres; the tetrahedron, > >>> > >>34; > >> > >>>the rhombic dodecahedron, 92; the cube, 364; and the > >>> > >>other > >> > >>>two symmetric Platonic solids, the icosahedron > >>> and the dodecahedron, are inherently, ergo forever, > >>>devoid of equiradius nuclear spheres, having > >>> > >>insufficient > >> > >>>radius space within the triangulated inner void to > >>>accommodate an additional equiradius sphere. This > >>> > >>inherent > >> > >>> disassociation from nucleated systems suggests both > >>>electron and neutron behavior identification > >>> > >>relationships > >> > >>>for the icosahedron's and the dodecahedron's > >>> > >>requisite > >> > >>>noncontiguous symmetrical positioning outwardly from > >>> > >>the > >> > >>>symmetrically nucleated aggregates. > >>> > >>> > >> > >>You understood this last part, right? > >> > > > > Not really, but I have a sense that the icosa is > > incompatabile with a nucleus. Something to do with > > jitterbugging the VE, or closest sphere packing. > > > > I am starting to think that icosahedral sphere packings can > > be accounted for in concentric shells of spheres. > > > The VE is the shape of closest packed spheres under pressure. > Balls pack readily around it; it is isotropic vector matrix compatible. > The icosa is a partially collapsed VE. It is stable by itself because > the square faces have contracted into pairs of triangles. > > The VE is stabilized by adjacent VEs. It represents a limit of > expansion. > > Other shapes are more awkward for adding layers of closest packing balls. > When the limit of the Periodical Chart of the elements is nearly > reached,another nucleus is formed, making the most complex elements > unstable. > Icosas are not capable of closest packing. They are contracted VEs. > Steve > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > I Do Yahoo! (tm) And IM1! > > -- Formactive http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 06:39:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] asking questions of ourselves <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 14-MAY-2002 6:39 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us what if one feels that "911" constitutes a scary metaphor, namely to the Reichstag fire, for an attempted coup (that is, against the President and most citizens) ?? look at how Congress is setting to promote a gusher for "trade=freedom" with ye olde Fast Track, supposedly as the most important thing to ameliorate this stuff; if he doesn't veto it (a-hem), he'll be further at the mercy of the cartels; eh? as for the putative symbolism of "9-/-11," look at Richard Hoagland and his strange article on Masonry. one often wonders if such is deliberately silly, as with the New Yorker's "Militia Man" article, which calls-up the absurd take on the CFR, Trilats etc. ad vomitorium, apparently based solely upon the absolute ignorance of the author, him or herself ... which brings-up the question, when they find the Genitals on Mars, will they be like Dick's?... that's a question of gender, obviously! as for Afghanistan, we may be more & more at the mercy of the Commonwealthers that are bopping around, there -- see _The Music of a Different Drum_ by B.Lewis -- and the supposedly wonderful win, vis-a-vu the "hundred-years war" mindset that has otherwise been portrayed (that is not my native conclusion, of course). thus quoth: I will be leading an interest group with Friends in Unity with Nature on what is interfering with our ability individually and corporately to be part of the solution re climate change and the other major environmental issues, and what Friends can do to turn this around. the most interesting paraclimatic thing seems to be that -- aside from the Friday, May 3 frontpage stories, re *Science*, in the LA and NY *Times* -- the magentic polarity is decreasing, possibly to shift (excusez-moi, mais it's not the same thing, as a 180-degree rotation of the turning globe, kids !-) --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:44:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] asking questions of ourselves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed TESTES? >From: Brian Hutchings >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] asking questions of ourselves >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 06:39:50 -0700 > ><> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 14-MAY-2002 6:39 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > what if one feels that "911" constitutes a scary metaphor, > namely to the Reichstag fire, for an attempted coup (that is, > against the President and most citizens) ?? > look at how Congress is setting to promote a gusher > for "trade=freedom" with ye olde Fast Track, supposedly > as the most important thing to ameliorate this stuff; if > he doesn't veto it (a-hem), he'll be further at the mercy > of the cartels; eh? > > as for the putative symbolism of "9-/-11," > look at Richard Hoagland and his strange article > on Masonry. one often wonders if such is deliberately silly, > as with the New Yorker's "Militia Man" article, > which calls-up the absurd take on the CFR, Trilats etc. > ad vomitorium, apparently based solely upon the absolute ignorance > of the author, him or herself ... which brings-up the question, when > they find the Genitals on Mars, will they be like Dick's?... > that's a question of gender, obviously! > as for Afghanistan, > we may be more & more at the mercy of the Commonwealthers > that are bopping around, there > -- see _The Music of a Different Drum_ by B.Lewis -- and > the supposedly wonderful win, vis-a-vu the "hundred-years war" mindset > that has otherwise been portrayed (that is not my native conclusion, > of course). > > thus quoth: > I will be leading an interest group with Friends in Unity with Nature on > what is interfering with our ability individually and corporately to be > part > of the solution re climate change and the other major environmental > issues, > and what Friends can do to turn this around. > > the most interesting paraclimatic thing seems to be that > -- aside from the Friday, May 3 frontpage stories, > re *Science*, in the LA and NY *Times* -- > the magentic polarity is decreasing, possibly to shift > (excusez-moi, mais it's not the same thing, > as a 180-degree rotation of the turning globe, kids !-) > > --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:56:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] media manipulation? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 15-MAY-2002 8:56 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us so, we're supposed to believe every thing that is printed about Carter and Brsezinski in the fabulously mainstream press? OK! thus quoth: If Hugo Chavez goes to visit Fidel in Cuba, and shakes his hand, then Chavez is Fidel's personal trainee, and they are the best friends in the world, and Hugo is a radical leftist. But if Carter visits Fidel, then nothing similar is said of HIM!! Isn't this manipulation by the media? I am speaking mainly of Venezuelan media, but of course, this media is completely manipulated by Bush's fishing partner, Gustavo Cisneros who is of cuban ancestry. Probably his ancestors enjoyed Cuba too much when it was known --les ducs d'Enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:49:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] big houses <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 15-MAY-2002 13:49 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is associated with an age-old problem re immigration, as well, of benefactees of "free trade" buy their estates in the States; I don't know what the ratios are, though. I do know that the *mortgages* are being heavily bought --one might say blowing a bubble in intl. finance, temporarily supporting the USA apres le "tech-bubble" -- by foreign investors and entities, and may be in the majority (I forget). thus quoth: WASHINGTON, May 14 - The celebrated prosperity of the 1990's brought a surge in the size and values of homes and in family incomes, according to new Census Bureau statistics covering 13 states, including Californi a, Illinois, Indiana, Washington and Wisconsin. Many more Americans earned college and graduate degrees, and the incomes of the elderly jumped about 60 percent. --les ducs d'Enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:36:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Thompson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Picture worth seeing. http://www.sdsc.edu/IOTW/week35.96/iotw.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:52:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 16-MAY-2002 6:52 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ah, a here-to-fore unkown progenitor of the Space Program, a virtual Space Cadet who clearly knows (via reconnaisance, or maybe remote viewing) that "there are no fossilized fuels in space!" at least, there haven't any been found on any rocks, out here, that we know about. thus quoth: This hour, William McDonough challenges the very foundations of industrialization and environmentalism with his new model of production and conservation. Guests: William McDonough, co-author of "Cradle to Cradle;" architect and founding principal of William McDonough + Partners, Architecture and Community Design http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2002/0514_cradle.asp --les ducs d'Enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Thompson <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 16-MAY-2002 6:57 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I notice two things about this model: a) taken superficially (as it is "hollow"), the atoms are represented as facets, not vertices, as with my dual to the usual models of fullerenes; b) it seems to be a "frequencing" of a soccerball (-ene), but it's also enantiamorphic (follow the stepping-stones out from the pentagona .-) thus quoth: Picture worth seeing. http://www.sdsc.edu/IOTW/week35.96/iotw.html --les ducs d'Enron! > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:25:24 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, I have finally read something in a Brian post that I can relate to = ! I am reading Cradle to Cradle and am finding it a fascinating and = enjoyable read. His concept of industry working and growing in harmony with the = environment is a paradigm that seeks to replace the Industry Vs. the Environment mind-set that is now prevalent. He proposes industries/products/designs = that nourish the whole environment (including all its indigenous flora and = fauna) and function as a closed system. He calls for reusing the products = which are created in such a way that there is no degradation of quality = through the generations of the recycled product. This means designing for = recycling, not recycling as an after thought. I highly recommend this book. It is an extension of Fullers philosophy = of assisting evolution in our design efforts. -Tony. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hutchings [mailto:r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:52 AM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment <> Brian =BFQuincy! Hutchings 16-MAY-2002 = 6:52 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ah, a here-to-fore unkown progenitor of the Space Program, a virtual Space Cadet who clearly knows (via reconnaisance, or maybe remote viewing) that "there are no fossilized fuels in space!" at least, there haven't any been found on any rocks, out here, that we know about. thus quoth: This hour, William McDonough challenges the very foundations of industrialization and environmentalism with his new model of = production and conservation. Guests: William McDonough, co-author of "Cradle to Cradle;" architect and = founding principal of William McDonough + Partners, Architecture and Community Design http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2002/0514_cradle.asp --les ducs d'Enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:38:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC393134F9@pscserver3> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Here Here! From the research I've done, it looks like William McDonough and Dr. Michael Braungart at MBDC McDonough + Partners are leading the way in the comprehensive design science industry. I'm looking forward to reading a book that is a first of it's kind. It's not made out of paper. It's made ou= t of a polymer that is completely recyclable. And supposedly you can read it in the shower too cause it's waterproof! If anyone knows of any other companies doing comprehensive design science work, please speak up. Thanks Leifur ps to Tony- J. Michael Rowland referred me to Poly Pro for a program that makes geodesics in a DXF format: http://www.peda.com/polypro/Welcome.html (it's a sweet little program) Thanks for all the effort you made to help me out Tony, I really appreciate it! > From: Tony Kalenak > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:25:24 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment >=20 > Hey, I have finally read something in a Brian post that I can relate to ! > I am reading Cradle to Cradle and am finding it a fascinating and enjoyab= le > read. > His concept of industry working and growing in harmony with the environme= nt > is a paradigm that seeks to replace the Industry Vs. the Environment > mind-set that is now prevalent. He proposes industries/products/designs t= hat > nourish the whole environment (including all its indigenous flora and fau= na) > and function as a closed system. He calls for reusing the products which > are created in such a way that there is no degradation of quality through > the generations of the recycled product. This means designing for recycli= ng, > not recycling as an after thought. >=20 > I highly recommend this book. It is an extension of Fullers philosophy of > assisting evolution in our design efforts. >=20 > -Tony. >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hutchings [mailto:r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US] > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:52 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment >=20 > <> Brian =BFQuincy! Hutchings 16-MAY-2002 6:52 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >=20 > ah, a here-to-fore unkown progenitor of the Space Program, > a virtual Space Cadet who clearly knows (via reconnaisance, or > maybe remote viewing) that > "there are no fossilized fuels in space!" > at least, there haven't any been found > on any rocks, out here, that we know about. >=20 > thus quoth: > This hour, William McDonough challenges the very foundations of > industrialization and environmentalism with his new model of production a= nd > conservation. >=20 > Guests: >=20 > William McDonough, co-author of "Cradle to Cradle;" architect and foundin= g > principal of William McDonough + Partners, Architecture and Community > Design >=20 > http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2002/0514_cradle.asp >=20 > --les ducs d'Enron! >>> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:13:18 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Leifur, Always glad to try to help. Michael Rowland , Joe Moore and all contributors to this list and the DomeHome list are a Great resource for things Geodesic/Synergetic and = Bucky related. -Tony. -----Original Message----- From: Leifur Thor [mailto:lthor@EARTHLINK.NET]=20 Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 11:38 AM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment Here Here! From the research I've done, it looks like William McDonough = and Dr. Michael Braungart at MBDC McDonough + Partners are leading the way = in the comprehensive design science industry. I'm looking forward to = reading a book that is a first of it's kind. It's not made out of paper. It's = made out of a polymer that is completely recyclable. And supposedly you can read = it in the shower too cause it's waterproof! If anyone knows of any other companies doing comprehensive design = science work, please speak up. Thanks Leifur ps to Tony- J. Michael Rowland referred me to Poly Pro for a program = that makes geodesics in a DXF format: http://www.peda.com/polypro/Welcome.html (it's a sweet little program) Thanks for all the effort you made to help me out Tony, I really = appreciate it! > From: Tony Kalenak > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:25:24 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment >=20 > Hey, I have finally read something in a Brian post that I can relate = to ! > I am reading Cradle to Cradle and am finding it a fascinating and enjoyable > read. > His concept of industry working and growing in harmony with the environment > is a paradigm that seeks to replace the Industry Vs. the Environment > mind-set that is now prevalent. He proposes = industries/products/designs that > nourish the whole environment (including all its indigenous flora and fauna) > and function as a closed system. He calls for reusing the products = which > are created in such a way that there is no degradation of quality = through > the generations of the recycled product. This means designing for recycling, > not recycling as an after thought. >=20 > I highly recommend this book. It is an extension of Fullers = philosophy of > assisting evolution in our design efforts. >=20 > -Tony. >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hutchings [mailto:r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US] > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:52 AM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment >=20 > <> Brian =BFQuincy! Hutchings 16-MAY-2002 = 6:52 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us >=20 > ah, a here-to-fore unkown progenitor of the Space Program, > a virtual Space Cadet who clearly knows (via reconnaisance, or > maybe remote viewing) that > "there are no fossilized fuels in space!" > at least, there haven't any been found > on any rocks, out here, that we know about. >=20 > thus quoth: > This hour, William McDonough challenges the very foundations of > industrialization and environmentalism with his new model of = production and > conservation. >=20 > Guests: >=20 > William McDonough, co-author of "Cradle to Cradle;" architect and = founding > principal of William McDonough + Partners, Architecture and Community > Design >=20 > http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2002/0514_cradle.asp >=20 > --les ducs d'Enron! >>> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:33:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] What can we do for the environment <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 17-MAY-2002 10:33 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us just the idea of reading it under the shower is enough to enthuse, but I find the thesis to be rather unctuous, along the lines of the "H\hemp for haemarrhoids" crowd. even so, I'd be interested to know, what ration of lumber goes to paper (and how much of it is made from salvaged lumber e.g.). of course, nothing beats a Dymaxion Bidet. thus quoth: Dr. Michael Braungart at MBDC McDonough + Partners are leading the way in the comprehensive design science industry. I'm looking forward to reading a book that is a first of it's kind. It's not made out of paper. It's made out of a polymer that is completely recyclable. And supposedly you can read it in the shower too cause it's waterproof! --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:53:19 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: [Fwd: [organic_architecture] Gridshell building] Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck , The DomeHome List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [organic_architecture] Gridshell building Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 17:38:10 +0100 From: "visions" Reply-To: organic_architecture@yahoogroups.com To: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/tw/items/010509_gridshellbuilding.shtml Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: organic_architecture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:01:59 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Charles J Knight Subject: Bucky was ahead of the curve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cardboardschool.co.uk Well, it looks like Bucky was ahead of the curve once again -- the world's "first" cardboard building has been constructed in Britain. The link above will take you to the site. -- Chuck Knight ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:19:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Plydome Thesis Comments: To: Steve Miller Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, I swapped email with a Barbara Greene in Feb & April of 1996. She said that she was planning to put her masters thesis about plydomes on her web site, but I have never been able to locate her website even though I have done extensive searches. Her email was barbgrn@crl.com but it doesn't work last I checked. Her internet provider's area code was 415 which is SF/Marin County, CA. She mentioned that she had a farm in Northern California. I've never come across a masters thesis by a Barbara Greene in all my library searches over the years. If you somehow manage to track her down please let me know. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Miller" To: Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 3:44 AM Subject: Plydome Thesis > I was told there is a plydome thesis written by Barb Greene, and I would > like to read it. > Do you have any information on this? > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 09:09:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: [Fwd: [organic_architecture] Gridshell building] In-Reply-To: <3CE686FF.3000403@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii YEs , thanks. I am using wire to bow lath strips preassembly. After assembly the wire is superfluous or at least redundant. It sounds like these folks are bending the strips to conform to a form. Same idea. Different approach. The hubs or crossings "fall where they may." > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/tw/items/010509_gridshellbuilding.shtml __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:01:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: testing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is what happens; says, "y'got mail," but there's nothing there -- on the weekends! login: r007883 Password: You have new mail. Caucus (TM) version 2.7/LX. Copyright (C) 1996 Screen Porch LLC. If you need assistance, type HELP and press . 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AND NOW? r l m (253) ------------------------------------------------ SUBJECT: PEN Weekly NewsBlast for May 17, 2002 MESSAGE from =newsblast@lyris.publiceducation.o 16-MAY-20 12:01 Public Education Network Weekly NewsBlast “America’s Favorite Free Newsletter on Improving Public Education _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 21:57:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Question about fuller site. Comments: To: The Westermans Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, The "Starplate" connectors were patented (US4,384,801) on May 24, 1983, = by David O Hamel of Madison, WI, & assigned to the East-West Design = Group of Madison, WI. I do not believe that they are in business any = more. =20 In July 1985 they were available from the United Steel Products Co of = Montgomery, MN, but no more.=20 However, they are currently available from Stromberg's Chicks & = Gamebirds in Pine River, MN (218-587-2222). See: = http://www.strombergschickens.com=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: The Westermans=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:25 PM Subject: Question about fuller site. I saw that you have starplate listed in Madison and I would like to = get in touch with these folks but I cannot find a number listed. Can you = help? John -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Earth Dynamics, Inc ??-78 Dome Builder's Handbook #2, p 98 = Boulder CO USA=20 Earthwhile 01-97 David Falasco; DOME mag, 1-97, p 53 Colorado = Springs " "=20 East-West Design, Inc 07-96 StarPlate manufacturer Madison WI "=20 Eco Straw Domes 05-96 ? Ashland OR "=20 Econ-O-Dome 10-01 Kits; Faze Change Produx Lakehead CA "=20 Ecosol 08-01 Plastic domes Vancouver WA "=20 Electrical Geodesics 12-98 Geodesic Sensor Net; Scalp Electrical = Field Maps Eugene OR "=20 Emod, Inc 01-93 Fiberglass Fly's Eye; DOME, 1-93, pp 4-6 & 26 = Hoboken NJ "=20 Enchanted West, Inc 08-96 Fiberglass; GTE Superpages Las Cruces = NM "=20 Energy Structures, Inc 10-01 Kits; Joe & Kevin Frawley; DOME, = 4-93, pp 10-13 St Paul MN "=20 Environmental Structures 08-96 GTE Superpages Beachwod OH "=20 Envirotecture ??-78 Dome Builder's Handbook #2, p 115 Santa = Paula CA "=20 Envisioneering Co 10-95 NOT GEODESIC; Triodetic hub & strut = assembly Ottawa ON Canada=20 Essco 09-01 Radomes Concord MA USA=20 Evergreen Domes 01-00 NOT GEODESIC (Monolithic contractor) East = Yelm WA "=20 Expo Domes Int'l ??-85 J Buche; Dome Builder's Handbook #2, p 98 = Whitehouse TX "=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:05:27 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Round Subject: Fuller Source MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fuller dedicated SYNERGETICS to a Professor of Math in Toronto, Professor Coxeter, who has done a great deal of work on polytopes. I came across the following quote from a book by Edith Somervell titled A RHYTHMIC APPROACH TO MATHEMATICS, published in 1906, in the preface of her book on "line drawings": "A youth named Benjamin Betts was employed in a London office in drawing conventionalized patterns of leaves and flowers. As he walked across the park after his work, the plants themselves seemed, he says, to look up at him and reproach him for maligning them. He became disgusted with civilized life and its dishonest conventions, and retired to a Brazilian forest to study philosophy. He bethought him of a system of geometric co-ordinates, founded on the spiral of Archimedes, by which he tried to picture to himself the course of thought checked by obstacles..." This all sounds eerily similar to Fuller's response to the irrationality of pi, yet looking at bubbles awash on the beach - knowing nothing about "pi", yet being perfect!! Does anybody know anything about Benjamin Betts (apparently from mid-19th century), or have thoughts on the similarity of this train of thought, Coxeter, Fuller, and synergetic geometry. Thanks. Michael Round ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:29:48 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Fuller Source Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [NB: my last post from Hotmail didn't make it, along with my stuff from PEN over the weekend.] everyone who professes an interest in geometry via Bucky, should look at any of Coxeter's "elementary" books on the subject, since you have to do some thing like that, to get beyond the classical training that Bucky denies that he had (by polemic, not by saying, so .-) this goes to Bucky's BS about pi, certainly, which we debated on syn-l, years ago; it's really just sophistry, but he *was* booted out of his natural-borne place as a 5G Hahvahdite -- as a freshman, I think; freshistry? Coxeter's books (or consultations) were where he got orthoschemes, as Coxeter is a big pioneer in the theory of mirrors (Bucky supplieth the smoke, as the perennial "Showman" .-) so, can you say any more about the spiral co-ordinates of this British hermit?... I've tried to do one, years ago, without much success (but I'm the apparent inventor of tripolar co-ordination .-) thus quoth: >Fuller dedicated SYNERGETICS to a Professor of Math in Toronto, Professor >Coxeter, who has done a great deal of work on polytopes. ...> >philosophy. He bethought him of a system of geometric co-ordinates, >founded >on the spiral of Archimedes, by which he tried to picture to himself the >course of thought checked by obstacles..." > >This all sounds eerily similar to Fuller's response to the irrationality of >pi, yet looking at bubbles awash on the beach - knowing nothing about "pi", >yet being perfect!! Bucky made some important dyscoveries, but geometry wasn't one of'em! --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 17:31:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Fuller Source In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > [NB: my las without much success (but > I'm the apparent inventor of tripolar co-ordination .-) > I have not heard you speak of this. Where on your site is this? Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 03:00:03 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Fuller Source Comments: cc: r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Coxeter has many "elementary" books that will do to get beyond the hump of Bucky's refusal to reveal that he had a "classical" education, or at least the geometrical part thereof! --les ducs d'Enron! > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ PI is good; Bucky is a Beazeaux Synonyme charter member! >Fuller dedicated SYNERGETICS to a Professor of Math in Toronto, Professor >Coxeter, who has done a great deal of work on polytopes. > >I came across the following quote from a book by Edith Somervell titled A >RHYTHMIC APPROACH TO MATHEMATICS, published in 1906, in the preface of her >book on "line drawings": > >"A youth named Benjamin Betts was employed in a London office in drawing >conventionalized patterns of leaves and flowers. As he walked across the >park after his work, the plants themselves seemed, he says, to look up at >him >and reproach him for maligning them. He became disgusted with civilized >life >and its dishonest conventions, and retired to a Brazilian forest to study >philosophy. He bethought him of a system of geometric co-ordinates, >founded >on the spiral of Archimedes, by which he tried to picture to himself the >course of thought checked by obstacles..." > >This all sounds eerily similar to Fuller's response to the irrationality of >pi, yet looking at bubbles awash on the beach - knowing nothing about "pi", >yet being perfect!! > >Does anybody know anything about Benjamin Betts (apparently from mid-19th >century), or have thoughts on the similarity of this train of thought, >Coxeter, Fuller, and synergetic geometry. > >Thanks. > >Michael Round _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 03:34:42 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Fuller Source Comments: cc: r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed is Hotmail preventing me from sending to this list? I *get* the mail from it, but where are *my* submissions -- which also are not coming via PEN, my "old" system? --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:17:02 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Fuller Source Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is annoying, because I didn't get my own message; is it because I have to set it from this account? the mentions of tetrapolarity are in my paper, "Cosmometrical Constance," at http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html -- see if you can configure it, "Dick!" >--- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > [NB: my las without much success (but > > I'm the apparent inventor of tripolar co-ordination .-) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:08:59 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brian \"Quincy\" Hutch" Subject: Re: You are now subscribed to the GEODESIC list Comments: cc: Space998@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit what a pisser. both my Hatemail and my WEN mail are screwed over. I had a great response about Coxeter to mister Round. Coxeter is a requirement, via his "elementary" books, to get around the BS that Bucky presents as a fait-acompli. at least, in sofar as geometry is concerned, he had a classical education -- in the Tory town of Milton Academy! --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:41:45 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: Fuller Source MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you are doing the mailing list (vs. newsgroup), Send a "help" message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and this will give you the commands you can send to the list server via email. You can use this method to check and change you current settings. Notification and getting a copy of your post are both functions of listserve. -Tony. -----Original Message----- From: Quincy Quincy Quincy [mailto:space998@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 2:17 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Fuller Source this is annoying, because I didn't get my own message; is it because I have to set it from this account? the mentions of tetrapolarity are in my paper, "Cosmometrical Constance," at http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html -- see if you can configure it, "Dick!" >--- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > > [NB: my las without much success (but > > I'm the apparent inventor of tripolar co-ordination .-) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:49:58 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: Fuller Source MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't get my own messages from this listserv either. Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > this is annoying, because I didn't get my own message; > is it because I have to set it from this account? > the mentions of tetrapolarity are in my paper, > "Cosmometrical Constance," > at http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > -- see if you can configure it, "Dick!" > >> --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: >> > [NB: my las without much success (but >> > I'm the apparent inventor of tripolar co-ordination .-) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:28:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] East Timor-UN success story <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 21-MAY-2002 6:28 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us why does no-one bother to see it? in the seeming wake of the Enroniacs, such companies as El Paso Gas are building LNG plants explicitly for the California market, predicated upon the ideal that the prices are going to hold at about double what they were in May of 2000 -- which seems to be insured by the EPA's tactic on Methanex and/or ethanol, and the fact taht the latest power plants are portrayed in the news as "environmentally friendly," an apparent code for natural-gas-fired, as they all have been for over 15 years! this is coupled with the longterm demonization of the (more efficient) deisel engines, in favor of CNG busses & trucks and so on. California is paying through the nose for the incipient "nation" of E.Timor, which seems to have all of its prospects to be in the bag as a satrapy of Portugal (or whoever is the biggest wheeler and dealer, thereat) and Australia (f.k.a. the HBE). as for being "off o'the screen," it's been on page A1 for a couple o'days in the LATimes; of course, it *is* just across the ocean from us. thus quoth: Totally off the media's radar screen, East Timor has made a miraculous comeback from its days of carnage in the late 90's. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39220-2002May18.html "aid workers, diplomats and experts on transition governments regard East Timor as a milestone in the troubled history of U.N. peacekeeping and political intervention, demonstrating that international efforts at nation-building can succeed under the right conditions." Such a shame that boring old peace doesn't make for better tv. --les ducs d'Enron! > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:37:47 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brian \"Quincy\" Hutch" Subject: Re: Fuller Source Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Fuller Source? thanks for the helpfile, but I determined with the netscape (AOL/Tine-Warmer/etc./ad-vomitorium) account that the default is to get one's messages back, so that I should be getting them via Hitnail. (no word yet from their supportfolks, although they said that part of it is probably due to the City's implimentation of IE browzer. I like Netpaces, but it doesn't allow copying/pasting of anything in its windows; would it, if the Netescape broser is used? thus quoth Tony: nevermore? -- --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:02:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Buckminster Fuller Comments: To: yogainfo@3ho.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3HO Espanola, NM, USA Dear Sirs, Apparently you used to publish a magazine called "New Directions" in the = 1970s. On the cover of issue # 22 appears a picture of Yogi Bhajan & R = Buckminster Fuller. What was the month and year of that issue? Is it = possible to get a copy of that issue or a copy of the article that = mentions Dr Fuller? Thank you, Ref: http://www.3ho.org/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:08:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: bucky translation Comments: To: Philippe Axelsen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr Axelsen, I'm not sure how one would go about financing such a project. I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to the Geodesic list which is an online newsletter for those interested in the work of R Buckminster Fuller. Maybe one of the subscribers would have a suggestion. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philippe Axelsen" To: Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 3:09 PM Subject: bucky translation > > Dear M. Moore, > > I am writing to ask you for some advice. I have been a great admirer of > Buckminster Fuller for some years now. Strangely enough, only two of his > books has been translated into French (Education-Automation and Operating > Manual for S.S. Earth - both out of print). Considering > that he is one of the foremost thinkers of the 20th century, I have > decided to undertake a French translation of Inventions. > > I've already obtained the translation rights from the BF Estate. I would be > grateful if you could send me any information or suggestions on how to go > about obtaining funding for this translation. > > I thank you in advance for your consideration and look forward to hearing > from you. > > Best regards, > > Philippe Axelsen > Translator, MA > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:21:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Buckminster Fuller Comments: To: chowe@fas.harvard.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Harvard Square Library Cambridge, MA, USA Dear Sirs, Re your Notable American Unitarians series, the first picture you show = for R Buckminster Fuller is not Fuller but someone else! Sincerely, Ref: http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/unitarians/fuller.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:47:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: curved strut randome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here's a picture of the latest embodiment of a randome. By using struts with identical curvature, there is no need to do the math of traditional geodesic structures as this method requires no figuring or measuring beyond the curvature of the struts. This may allow many more people to access the benifits of geodsic domes. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=95 Dickk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 07:37:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 22-MAY-2002 7:37 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us where are your notes on your so-called construction, pictured? for one thing, it's obvious that the flexible struts aren't of the same *active* length, since the overlaps at the ends seem "random." of course, they aren't that; nerely haphazard! you're either an idiot, a jerk, or some word I don't know the meaning of. seriously, you might try doing some of the exercises in _Geometry Revisited_ or some such, and it surely doesn't have to be by Coxeter et al! thus quoth: using struts with identical curvature, there is no need to do the math of traditional geodesic structures as this method requires no figuring or measuring beyond the curvature of the struts. This may allow many more people to access the benifits of geodsic domes. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto &Phot oID=95 Dickk is that a clue? --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 07:43:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: bucky translation <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 22-MAY-2002 7:43 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us a-ha; hte plot thickens, and seeing as "Bucky" was cremated, it's not going to be a simple task for the coroner to make a positive identification; alas! thus quoth: Re your Notable American Unitarians series, the first picture you show = for R Buckminster Fuller is not Fuller but someone else! Sincerely, Ref: http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/unitarians/fuller.html --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ > Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin' and Buckafka Fullofitarium) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:46:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205221437.g4MEbbe11884@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Brian Hutchings > > where are your notes on your so-called construction, > pictured? What do you mean? > for one thing, it's obvious that the flexible struts > aren't > of the same *active* length, Yes, the struts extend past the hubs, so what? > since > the overlaps at the ends seem "random." of course, > they aren't that; nerely haphazard! I say random because, within limits, the struts can be joined together anywhere. > > you're either an idiot, a jerk, or > some word I don't know the meaning of. seriously, > you might try doing some of the exercises > in _Geometry Revisited_ or some such, and > it surely doesn't have to be by Coxeter et al! As you know, Brian, Bucky partially describes the method use here near the end of his tensegrity patent. I'll get the description he wrote since you are interested in the randome, or should I call it the haphazardome? > > thus quoth: > using struts with identical curvature, there is no need > to > do the math of traditional geodesic structures as this > method requires no figuring or measuring beyond the > curvature of the struts. This may allow many more > people to > access the benifits of geodsic domes. > > > > http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=95 > > Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:06:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 22-MAY-2002 14:06 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Note to Herr Dickmaster: To whom it concerns, since "Dick" can read, but he can't decipher the grammar.... Apparently, he is referring to Bucky's "basketwoven tensegrity," which is simply the use of struts that are dimensioned, so as to embody teh tensional elements within the struts (i.e. the compressional ones, which was first built with plain, old 2x4s; one has to adjust the frequency & size so that these elements will just touch as they "weave" over & under in there great-circles -- anyone have the picture at hand?) if you compare Dick's thing with Bucky's thing ... of course, Bucky *was* cremated; comme si, comme ca, and it has nothing to do with any supposed randomness, as is well-explained in any study of the basic shapes and their rotational symmetries (viz the great circles, and any lesser ones, as well). who's going to enroll the Professor back to bootcamp? thus quoth: As you know, Brian, Bucky partially describes the method use here near the end of his tensegrity patent. I'll get the description he wrote since you are interested in the randome, or should I call it the haphazardome communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoI D=95 --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com /Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin' and Buckafka Fullofitarium) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:52:27 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brian \"Quincy\" Hutch" Subject: Re: geodesic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit if you have a claim, make into a suitable form as to be able to patent it; then do so. if you can snow those folks, then we might have some thing to eveluate! Dick Fischbeck wrote: >--- Brian Hutchings >> >> where are your notes on your so-called construction, >> pictured? > >What do you mean? > >> for one thing, it's obvious that the flexible struts >> aren't >> of the same *active* length, > >Yes, the struts extend past the hubs, so what? > >> since >> the overlaps at the ends seem "random." of course, >> they aren't that; nerely haphazard! > >I say random because, within limits, the struts can be >joined together anywhere. > >> >> you're either an idiot, a jerk, or >> some word I don't know the meaning of. seriously, >> you might try doing some of the exercises >> in _Geometry Revisited_ or some such, and >> it surely doesn't have to be by Coxeter et al! > >As you know, Brian, Bucky partially describes the method >use here near the end of his tensegrity patent. I'll get >the description he wrote since you are interested in the >randome, or should I call it the haphazardome? > >> >> thus quoth: >> using struts with identical curvature, there is no need >> to >> do the math of traditional geodesic structures as this >> method requires no figuring or measuring beyond the >> curvature of the struts. This may allow many more >> people to >> access the benifits of geodsic domes. >> >> >> >> >http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=95 >> >> Dick > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience >http://launch.yahoo.com > -- --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 22:53:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Bucky picture Comments: To: Julie Martineau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julie, For more pics of Bucky--mostly in color--see: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Pics/ (scroll down to "People-Fuller-" =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Julie Martineau=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: Bucky picture Hi Mr. Moore, I looked on Google images and found those pictures of Buckminster = Fuller as a young man: http://dsc.gc.cuny.edu/part/articles/gr/loranc_1b.jpg http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/fuller_b.jpg http://www.omnimag.com/archives/chats/bios/gifs/baldwbk.gif I agree it doesn't seem to be the same man on = http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/unitarians/fuller.html. Best wishes, Julie Martineau Montreal ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:04:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: (no subject) Comments: To: Amy0000003@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy, No, I have never met her but I know who she is; see the following web page: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Brai-Bt.htm (scroll down to "Bregman") Is her last name spelled with 1 "n" or 2? ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:56 PM Subject: (no subject) > Joe, > I knew Bucky, but do you know Janet Bregmann?? > > Best Regards, > > Bedford > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:11:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: curved strut randome Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, I've made domes by just weaving various materials together into a 3-way spherical basket using no math at all! See: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-Tri.htm (scroll down to the "3-Way Weave" sections) The "Hats" are most interesting. ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:47 AM Subject: curved strut randome > Here's a picture of the latest embodiment of a randome. By > using struts with identical curvature, there is no need to > do the math of traditional geodesic structures as this > method requires no figuring or measuring beyond the > curvature of the struts. This may allow many more people to > access the benifits of geodsic domes. > > http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&P hotoID=95 > > Dickk > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:19:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: Geodesic Sphere??? Comments: To: pauly@geoaustralia.com Comments: cc: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paola, Of course you may. I am delighted that you find my website useful enough that you would want to link to it! ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paola Ervetti" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:16 PM Subject: Geodesic Sphere??? > Dear Mr Moore, > While I was looking for information on Peter Pearce's book "Structures..." > in yahoo! I bumped into your enlightening website on Buckminster Fuller and > would like to ask for your permission to link it to our web-page on the > Dome, which is: http://www.geoaustralia.com/english/geoshapes/dome.htm > Many thanks in advance for your reply. > Yours faithfully, > Paola Ervetti > Geo Australia P/L > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:15:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205222106.g4ML6U514509@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does B-boom ring a bell? I'll find it for you. --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings > 22-MAY-2002 14:06 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > Note to Herr Dickmaster: > To whom it concerns, since "Dick" can read, but > he can't decipher the grammar.... > > Apparently, he is referring to Bucky's "basketwoven > tensegrity," > which is simply the use of struts that are dimensioned, > so as to embody teh tensional elements within the struts > (i.e. the compressional ones, which was first built > with plain, old 2x4s; > one has to adjust the frequency & size so that these > elements > will just touch as they "weave" over & under > in there great-circles -- anyone have the picture at > hand?) > > if you compare Dick's thing with Bucky's thing ... of > course, > Bucky *was* cremated; comme si, comme ca, and > it has nothing to do with any supposed randomness, > as is well-explained in any study of the basic shapes > and > their rotational symmetries (viz the great circles, and > any lesser ones, as well). > who's going to enroll the Professor back to bootcamp? > > thus quoth: > As you know, Brian, Bucky partially describes the > method > use here near the end of his tensegrity patent. I'll > get > the description he wrote since you are interested in > the > randome, or should I call it the haphazardome > > > communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoI > D=95 > > --les ducs d'Enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com > /Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin' and Buckafka Fullofitarium) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:21:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <485FFA1D.218D697A.0006AEA5@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For a spherical omnitriangulated structure with n vertexes, I'd say: r=sqrt[(n-2)/10] and v=sqrt[(2/5)(n-2)^3 and a=2(n-2) More picture coming. --- "Brian \"Quincy\" Hutch" wrote: > if you have a claim, make into a suitable form > as to be able to patent it; then do so. if > you can snow those folks, then we might have some thing > to eveluate! > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > >--- Brian Hutchings > >> > >> where are your notes on your so-called construction, > >> pictured? > > > >What do you mean? > > > >> for one thing, it's obvious that the flexible > struts > >> aren't > >> of the same *active* length, > > > >Yes, the struts extend past the hubs, so what? > > > >> since > >> the overlaps at the ends seem "random." of course, > >> they aren't that; nerely haphazard! > > > >I say random because, within limits, the struts can be > >joined together anywhere. > > > >> > >> you're either an idiot, a jerk, or > >> some word I don't know the meaning of. seriously, > >> you might try doing some of the exercises > >> in _Geometry Revisited_ or some such, and > >> it surely doesn't have to be by Coxeter et al! > > > >As you know, Brian, Bucky partially describes the method > >use here near the end of his tensegrity patent. I'll get > >the description he wrote since you are interested in the > >randome, or should I call it the haphazardome? > > > >> > >> thus quoth: > >> using struts with identical curvature, there is no > need > >> to > >> do the math of traditional geodesic structures as > this > >> method requires no figuring or measuring beyond the > >> curvature of the struts. This may allow many more > >> people to > >> access the benifits of geodsic domes. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=95 > >> > >> Dick > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > >http://launch.yahoo.com > > > > > -- > --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ > Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great > gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online > with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ > > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today > at http://webmail.netscape.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:32:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: curved strut randome In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Right, Joe. That's basically it. In the hats, however, I don't see any pents. Without them things get a bit skewwed eventually. The angular deficit at each vertex can be the same(or close enough to being the same). 720/n=angular deficit, where n is the number of vertexes. This allows for the construction of a geodesic sphere with any number of vertexes, rather than just in multiples/subdivisions of the prime structures. The dimensions of the spherical triangles is irrelevant IF we keep track of the angles alone. I am working with the general case, I hope. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Dick, > > I've made domes by just weaving various materials > together into a 3-way > spherical basket using no math at all! See: > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-Tri.htm > (scroll down to the "3-Way Weave" sections) > > The "Hats" are most interesting. > > ============================== > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > ============================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Fischbeck" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:47 AM > Subject: curved strut randome > > > > Here's a picture of the latest embodiment of a randome. > By > > using struts with identical curvature, there is no need > to > > do the math of traditional geodesic structures as this > > method requires no figuring or measuring beyond the > > curvature of the struts. This may allow many more > people to > > access the benifits of geodsic domes. > > > > > http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&P > hotoID=95 > > > > Dickk > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > > http://launch.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:00:07 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brian \"Quincy\" Hutch" Subject: Re: geodesic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit this is all still silliness, amplified to the limit of "Dick" and his shouting. the simplest case to examine of spherical trigona, is to extend the edges (as great circles) of one trigon, which creates an identical "polar" trigon and 6 others that are supplimentary (I think, literally); all of this is embodied in Napier's thing, which is a figure in _S_. of course, since Bucky was a navigator on his own ship, he knew about this stuff. thus quoth: >Right, Joe. That's basically it. In the hats, however, I >don't see any pents. Without them things get a bit skewwed >eventually. > >The angular deficit at each vertex can be the same(or close >enough to being the same). 720/n=angular deficit, where n >is the number of vertexes. This allows for the construction >of a geodesic sphere with any number of vertexes, rather >than just in multiples/subdivisions of the prime >structures. The dimensions of the spherical triangles is >irrelevant IF we keep track of the angles alone. I am >working with the general case, I hope. > >Dick > > > >--- Joe S Moore wrote: >> Dick, >> >> I've made domes by just weaving various materials >> together into a 3-way >> spherical basket using no math at all! See: >> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-Tri.htm >> (scroll down to the "3-Way Weave" sections) >> >> The "Hats" are most interesting. >> >> ============================== >> Joe S Moore >> joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ >> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >> ============================= >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dick Fischbeck" >> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:47 AM >> Subject: curved strut randome >> >> >> > Here's a picture of the latest embodiment of a randome. >> By >> > using struts with identical curvature, there is no need >> to >> > do the math of traditional geodesic structures as this >> > method requires no figuring or measuring beyond the >> > curvature of the struts. This may allow many more >> people to >> > access the benifits of geodsic domes. >> > >> > >> >http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&P >> hotoID=95 >> > >> > Dickk >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience >> > http://launch.yahoo.com >> > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience >http://launch.yahoo.com > -- --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:42:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <019671C3.2E457F28.0006AEA5@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- "Brian \"Quincy\" Hutch" wrote: > this is all still silliness, amplified to the limit > of "Dick" and his shouting. > the simplest case to examine of spherical trigona, > is to extend the edges (as great circles) > of one trigon, which creates an identical "polar" trigon > and > 6 others that are supplimentary (I think, literally); I see 3 other triangles. The simplist case, the tetrahedron, with its 4 triangles. But your right, there are always an even number of triangles. > all of this is embodied in Napier's thing, > which is a figure in _S_. of course, > since Bucky was a navigator on his own ship, > he knew about this stuff. You are right, these are spherical triangles. All I am saying is that the edge lengths can be arbitrary. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:14:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 23-MAY-2002 10:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us of course, spherical trigona have no deficit to their superfacial angles. while it's true that you can divide sphere with "n" apices, connecting the dots trigonally, if the dots are "in general position" and more than 3, only some of those "n" are symmetrical -- as has been known for millennia, or even for the enitre history of Universe, else where in it -- so that there is no "unit strut" structure for any n-apiced polyhedron ... although Bucky thought that he had one, after 90 struts, for enough time that it was published (where, I forget). of course, "Dick" has no hypothesis, just the silly word, "random," which is a meaningless concept, meaning, "that was certainly news to me!" in computer science, of course, we have *pseudorandomnumbergenerators*, but so, What?... do you know, why you are more liely to get a "lucky 7" on a roll of the dice, than "boxcars" or "snake-eyes," together? thus saith: the simplest case to examine of spherical trigona, is to extend the edges (as great circles) of one trigon, which creates an identical "polar" trigon and 6 others that are supplimentary (I think, literally); all of this is embodied in Napier's thing, which is a figure in _S_. of course, since Bucky was a navigator on his own ship, he knew about this stuff. this figure is what bucky calls "deresinated tenseg.," although it's basically thte old, oriental Basket Weaving 101: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm the reason that "Dick" has such success with his silly model is that a) it may conform roughly to one of the platonic symmetries, or b) it'd be a real bitch to comnplete the whole sphere, with those "unit" struts of his. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:17:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] New war toys from the U.S. Army <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 23-MAY-2002 10:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I know Grossman is old news, in some part, but here's an interview from EIR. http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2002/2920hzl_grossman.html --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com /Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 06:41:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205231714.g4NHE8O21534@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > of course, spherical trigona have no deficit > to their superfacial angles. while it's true that > you can divide sphere with "n" apices, > connecting the dots trigonally, if > the dots are "in general position" and more than 3, > only some of those "n" are symmetrical > -- as has been known for millennia, or > even for the enitre history of Universe, else where in > it -- > so that there is no "unit strut" structure > for any n-apiced polyhedron As you know, the axial angle at any location along the spherical strut is the same. That's why this works. Get the idea of length/special-case out of your "mind." Think about a sphere. Put n dots on it, approximately evenly distributed. Connect the dots into triangles. No two triangles will be the same shape. This doesn't matter. It is still an n-polyhedron. And, if the pent/hex domains are equal areas(Voronoi cells), the vertexes will have the same angular deficit. That's the hypothesis. > ... although > Bucky thought that he had one, after 90 struts, > for enough time that it was published (where, > I forget). > > of course, "Dick" has no, Did you look into the radius and volume statements? > just the silly word, "random," which is a meaningless > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 07:05:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205231714.g4NHE8O21534@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > this figure is what bucky calls "deresinated tenseg.," > although > it's basically thte old, oriental Basket Weaving 101: > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm Brian- These are straight struts, no? > > the reason that > "Dick" has such success with his silly model is that a) > it may conform roughly to one of the platonic > symmetries, No. > or b) > it'd be a real bitch to comnplete the whole sphere, > with those "unit" struts of his. When did you decide I had any success? A full sphere will come out beautifully, I am sure. I've made some small ones already. The "unit" hub-cone works fine, too. So does the unit truss, as in cupdome. They are simple to construct and will come out spherical. I have not seen them anywhere else. The closest thing to them is the b-boom and the tri-weave. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:20:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: curved struts Comments: cc: synergeo@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii See 4 new pictures. One is of the struts. The other 3 pictures are of a paper model of a n=300 polyhedron. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=7 Dickk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:47:06 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Miller Subject: Re: geodesic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >>... although >> Bucky thought that he had one, after 90 struts, >> for enough time that it was published (where, >> I forget). >> >> There are a few tensegrity boom designs in the Tensegrity patent that will make large frequency domes or spheres with one repeated part. However, the parts have a compensating aspect 'built in'; A harness that can swivel, a trough that can bend a little. A little bit of boom self adjustment is all that is needed. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:34:58 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Geodesic Sphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey guys, Here is a little project I had fun with. On this page are a couple of photos of an art piece done by D. Tillery in Dallas. I supplied the geodesic design/drawings. It is a 12' dia. sphere. http://cableone.net/amkalenak/PHOTOS-gdsc.htm -Tony. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:54:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Geodesic Sphere In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC3931353A@pscserver3> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey Tony that's really cool. Was the statue originally designed with the geodesic as part of it or was it added after the statue was up for a while? And what does the statue represent? And one last question, which is what material did you use for the struts? Leifur > From: Tony Kalenak > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:34:58 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Geodesic Sphere > > Hey guys, > Here is a little project I had fun with. > On this page are a couple of photos of an art piece done by D. Tillery in > Dallas. > I supplied the geodesic design/drawings. > It is a 12' dia. sphere. > > http://cableone.net/amkalenak/PHOTOS-gdsc.htm > > > > -Tony. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:18:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Geodesic Sphere In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC3931353A@pscserver3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Who is the guy in the dirty tee shirt? Ya gotta get dirty. --- Tony Kalenak wrote: > Hey guys, > Here is a little project I had fun with. > On this page are a couple of photos of an art piece done > by D. Tillery in > Dallas. > I supplied the geodesic design/drawings. > It is a 12' dia. sphere. > > http://cableone.net/amkalenak/PHOTOS-gdsc.htm > > > > -Tony. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:24:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: prestressed tensegrity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anybody familiar with this work or were it is available? Seems relevant. http://epubs.siam.org/sam-bin/dbq/article/22923 Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 21:25:51 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed just how full o'crap can one be? just ask any one who groks solidgeometry or grouptheory or what ever, and stop flim-flamming this po'list. please. pretty-please with boogers on top? there's got to be better picture of the 2x4 construction of deresonated tensgrity, thatn that little drawing; it is just 2x4s, but so, What? thus quoth: >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/02-TriDomeTensegRigid.htm > >Brian- These are straight struts, no? > > > > > the reason that > > "Dick" has such success with his silly model is that a) > > it may conform roughly to one of the platonic > > symmetries, > >No. > > > or b) > > it'd be a real bitch to comnplete the whole sphere, > > with those "unit" struts of his. > >When did you decide I had any success? A full sphere will >come out beautifully, I am sure. I've made some small ones >already. > >The "unit" hub-cone works fine, too. So does the unit >truss, as in cupdome. They are simple to construct and will >come out spherical. I have not seen them anywhere else. The >closest thing to them is the b-boom and the tri-weave. --les ducs d'enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:16:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 24-MAY-2002 8:16 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you're just impossible. first you were saying that you could use "unit" struts, now you say "arbitrary." apparently, every single thing is arbitrary; talk anout doing all with naught! look-up "polar triangle" on the web, and you'll see how simple the minimum case is (with the six GCs of a tetrahedron, you'd have a whole bunch more of trigona falling out). thanks for the prat-fall slap-stick humor, "Dick;" I hadn't realized that we were in Virtual Vaudeville. thus quoth: I see 3 other triangles. The simplist case, the tetrahedron, with its 4 triangles. But your right, there are always an even number of triangles. > all of this is embodied in Napier's thing, > which is a figure in _S_. of course, > since Bucky was a navigator on his own ship, > he knew about this stuff. You are right, these are spherical triangles. All I am saying is that the edge lengths can be arbitrary. --les ducs d'enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:01:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > just how full o'crap can one be? > just ask any one who groks solidgeometry or > grouptheory or what ever, and > stop flim-flamming this po'list. > > please. > What ever. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:27:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: prestressed tensegrity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, See American Scientist mag for Mar-April 1998. See also http://mathlab.cit.cornell.edu/visualization/tenseg/tenseg.html ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 10:24 AM Subject: prestressed tensegrity > Anybody familiar with this work or were it is available? > Seems relevant. > > http://epubs.siam.org/sam-bin/dbq/article/22923 > > Dick > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 07:07:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: curved strut dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >From the picture, I see some arcs have more unused length after the vertex than others. You could saw off these unused portions and it'd still be just as stable. Once you allow for this variability, you see that the used portions of the arcs are not all the same length, and the differences might have been calculated in advance, would need to be, if a different construction system were used. Your ability to use arcs of the same length is consequent to the fact that you peg them to hubs at different places, have a construction system that allows that. But if you were inserting pre-cut pipe into spoke-hubs with fatter diameter sockets, you'd actually need to pre-cut correctly everything precisely, and not rely on fine tuning at build time. It seems to me that "Randome" refers to a building technique (fine tuning at runtime) more than to any essential difference in the geometry at design time. Kirby I agree. Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:14:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205241516.g4OFG5l28161@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii So you are talking about the 8 quadrants of the xyz. Fine. My circles were already cut, just like the struts in the curved strut dome. 4 triangles. Try to keep up. --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings > 24-MAY-2002 8:16 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > you're just impossible. > first you were saying that you could use "unit" > struts, > now you say "arbitrary." > > apparently, every single thing is arbitrary; > talk anout doing all with naught! > > look-up "polar triangle" on the web, > and you'll see how simple the minimum case is > (with the six GCs of a tetrahedron, > you'd have a whole bunch more of trigona falling out). > > thanks for the prat-fall slap-stick humor, "Dick;" > I hadn't realized that we were in Virtual Vaudeville. > > thus quoth: > I see 3 other triangles. The simplist case, the > tetrahedron, with its 4 triangles. But your right, > there > are always an even number of triangles. > > > all of this is embodied in Napier's thing, > > which is a figure in _S_. of course, > > since Bucky was a navigator on his own ship, > > he knew about this stuff. > > You are right, these are spherical triangles. All I am > saying is that the edge lengths can be arbitrary. > > --les ducs d'enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:38:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 25-MAY-2002 9:38 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us let's see if I can dyscern what your're blabbering about, now. you refer to the eight octants (sik) of the spherical octahedron, closely allied to its 3 vertex-to-vertex axes, commonly known as the "XYZ co-ordinate frame o'Descartes;" eh? then, you seem to be talking about the "fun with cones" episode -- Dick, the Menace? -- which you also never bothered to defend from any concern of anyone who bothered to look into it (all three of us !-) you're just a big joker, here, but there may not be anyone but the 4 of us, anyhow, on it. let me revise my suggestion, since you serfing the web for lame answers gets us no where. go to a library; go to the mathematics section (510 or so in Dewey's Decimals; sorry to give it away, folks, as "Dick" could've gotten lost, there, and we wouldn't be bothered with his QBS, no mo'); find the subject of polar triangles (spherical geometry or trigonometry) in as orignal of a work as you can (by Napier e.g., amongst those who established it); work enough of the exercises so that you have a clue -- or, better yet, a thorough comprehension wouldn't take very long, and you'd know more than I do about it, alas. I don't have a boat to get lost at sea, on! thus quoth: So you are talking about the 8 quadrants of the xyz. Fine. My circles were already cut, just like the struts in the curved strut dome. 4 triangles. Try to keep up. --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings > 24-MAY-2002 8:16 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > you're just impossible. > first you were saying that you could use "unit" > struts, > now you say "arbitrary." > > apparently, every single thing is arbitrary; > talk anout doing all with naugh --les ducs d'enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:42:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 25-MAY-2002 9:41 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, nice to see that you're not just lurking, KU! thus quoth: It seems to me that "Randome" refers to a building technique (fine tuning at runtime) more than to any essential difference in the geometry at design time. Kirby I agree. me, three. --les ducs d'enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:01:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 25-MAY-2002 10:01 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us don't be such a tyro, your Dickness; you presented no argument, at all, for your formulas, so, why should anyone bother to work it out for you, when you haven't given us anything that is like a hypothesis? what you presented as a hypothesis has no definitions that any one (apparently, or at least those who've bothered to read it for some peculiar reasoning) can take to get any picture of it; it's QBS, but perhaps *New Scientist* will write it "up" -- hey!... those were not statements, but just words ... hey; is "Dick" really a product of the Eliza Development Platform? words, grammar, loose syntax -- it's all, there; enough for a casual shrinkwrapping, I guess. "Dick" doesn't even present the same 'hypothesis,' at different moments, so he's probably running on an old 8088 (which, as I recall from using'em, is a "dumbed-down" 8086), with very little memory and no database (maybe an outliner). notice that "Dick" jumped from n-asteron (sik) to n-hedron, wihtout noticing it; they can be duals, after all! what in Hell he means by "axial angle," I have no idea, if I ever recieved the same clue, twice; sorry. thus quoth: Colonel Grossman is a former U.S. Army Ranger, and former professor at West Point and the University of Arkansas. He has written two books demonstrating how media and video-games violence is making killers out of some children, who become indifferent to the fact that their "target" is a human being. Colonel Grossman helps to train military, police, and emergency rescue units throughout the United States. He has written two books, most recently On Killing; The Psychological Costs of Learning to Kill in War and Society and Stop Teaching Our Kids To Kill. The latter is required reading at West Point and the Air Force Academy, and recommended reading for the FBI Academy and the Marine Corps Commandant's reading list. It is required in Peace Study programs in Quaker and Mennonite colleges, and at the University of California at Berkeley. EIR reviewed his first book on March 10, 2000, and interviewed him in the March 17, 2000 issue. He gave the following interview to Helga Zepp-LaRouche on May 4, 2002. Mrs. LaRouche raised the alarm against what she called the "New Violence," in her address to the Feb. 20, 2000 conference of the Schiller Institute. An edited version of that address appeared in EIR, March 17, 2000. EIR: I read your first book. Please tell us more about that and the most recent one. Grossman: Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill is going to be released in German in September. It's already been translated, and an article from Der Spiegel will be added to it, and my understanding is that a chapter and intro from Der Spiegel, and a chapter from the individual involved with the last teen mass murder there in Germany, the actorall of that will be in there, And I say all that as a prelude to telling you, that On Killing will be released fairly soon. It's already been licensed for release in German language.... If you have already read Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill you know where I'm coming from. I am personally on the road almost 300 days a year. I train the FBI; I train the Special Forces; I train the Marine Corps; I train law enforcement, nationwide and worldwide. My job is to examine the act of killing. How do we take a healthy 18-year-old boy, a soldier, a 22-year-old police officer, and make them capable of pulling the trigger? The mechanism we use is, we make killing a conditioned reflex, stimulus/response, stimulus/response. At the moment of truth, the proper stimulus pops up in front of them, and they kill without conscious thought. If you truly dwell on the magnitude of what you are doing when you kill another human being; if you truly dwell on the reality of another living, vital person, who is loved, and thinks and feels; that's a very difficult thing to do. You've got to separate yourself from the humanity of the person you are killingturn them into just a target. And the best mechanism we ever found for doing that, was this killing simulator, in which, instead of using bullseye targets, as we did in World War II, we transitioned to a man-made silhouette, and we made killing a conditioned reflex. The same phenomena that the military and law enforcement uses to enable killingwhich is done with the safeguard of disciplineis being done indiscriminately to our children with violent video games. There is a major study that is going to be released in Indianapolis this year. An outfit called the Center for Successful Parenting, has paid several hundred thousand dollarsthat's a lot of money, in this fieldin research, hooking MRIs to children playing video games; magnetic resonating imaging, tracing the brain activity of children playing video games. Now basically, the children who've never played the violent video game before, when they have to kill somebody, they're thinking about it. It's a conscious, thinking effort. But, the children who've played the games a lot, and are very good at the gamesthere is no conscious thought; there is nothing but brain stem activity; it completely bypasses their conscious brain. The video game turns killing into a conditioned reflex. Now, you need three things to kill: You need the weapon, the skill, and the will to kill. The video games provide two out of three. They give the skill and the will to kill. The weapons have been there for a long, long time. During World War I, and prior to World War I, and throughout the years after World War I, and throughout World War II, high-capacity 9 mm pistols were everywhere in Germany. We had literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of young soldiers, walking through Germany with military quality weapons, and high-capacity 9 mm pistols. The first real, double-stacked, high-capacity 9 mm pistol was probably the German Mauser, to this very day a highly-respected gun. It is well over 100 years old. The Luger is close to 100 years old, and there were hundreds of thousands of them in World War I. The weapons have been there for a long, long time.... The new factor, is that the violent video games are giving the boys the skill and the will to kill; even as we reduce the number of weapons, the ability to use the weapons has gone up. If a criminal wants drugs, he'll get drugs, anywhere in the world. Drugs are illegal, but if the criminal wants drugs, he'll get them. If a criminal wants guns, he'll get them. No matter how illegal you make them, if a criminal wants them, he'll get them. But, whether or not the teenager has the desire to use drugsif drugs have been glamorized, and he's been taught that it is the right thing to doit's the media and the violent video games, that are far more important in this equation. If there is a new factor occurring, [it's that] we're greatly reducing the supply of guns. And yet, the incidence of these kinds of brutal murdersthat has never happened before in human history, never before in human history. http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2002/2920hzl_grossman.html --les ducs d'enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:04:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 25-MAY-2002 10:04 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us what's "the b-boom," pritheetellus? thus quoth: When did you decide I had any success? A full sphere will come out beautifully, I am sure. I've made some small ones already. The "unit" hub-cone works fine, too. So does the unit truss, as in cupdome. They are simple to construct and will come out spherical. I have not seen them anywhere else. The closest thing to them is the b-boom and the tri-weave. nice try; you've convinced all geometers for all time. just say, Duh! --les ducs d'enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:12:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 25-MAY-2002 10:12 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is the best one, because you can analyze some of your bizarre statements, "by inspection." at least, an expreienced Freudiac could! seriously, go ahead & take the plunge: learn the spherical trigonometry, it won't take long, and you'll finally be able to get out of Santa Monica Bay -- "It's clean enough to drink, Stupid!" (tm) -- without that GPS thingy. ET, call home! oh, on the wayside; what does the other side of this wonderful 300-asteron seem like? just wondering. http://communities.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto &PhotoID=99 --les ducs d'enron! >> > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html >> > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:42:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 25-MAY-2002 10:42 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us only one problemma: you didn't convince Lincoln -- and he's dead! thus saith: nice try; you've convinced all geometers for all time. just say, Duh! --les ducs d'enron! > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 08:14:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] * Planet at the crossroads * <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 26-MAY-2002 8:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us testing. did anyone see the latest *Scientific American*, with its joking last-page on this-or-that-size icebergs? it was quite obfuscatory, but it at least raised the obvious question! --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html (eternal ****-up@bumstead.com ?-) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 08:16:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: stuff in the news? <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 26-MAY-2002 8:16 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us there is a lot of hurried news in The Times (LA, NY) get back soon! --les ducs d'Enron! >http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html >(eternal ****-up@bumstead.com ?-) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 08:22:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: stuff in the news <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 26-MAY-2002 8:22 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us OK; in particular, see the stuff about E.Timor and Ceneral Atomics (!), as well as the stuff about run-off oil. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 21:26:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Re: People's Trust and Savings Dome Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, See http://countyparks.com/horticulture/domes/index.html ============================== Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute ============================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 1:40 AM Subject: re: People's Trust and Savings Dome > From: Steve Miller > Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:35:10 -0400 > > Is there a url where I could see them? > > The DomeHome List wrote: > > > From: Lisa Hassebrock > > Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:13:09 -0700 > > > > The Mitchell Park horticultural domes, in Milwaukee are > > CONICAL domes according to their people. (I visited them > > when I went to see family in Milwaukee.) > > > > -Lisa > > > > At 09:52 PM 5/10/02 -0600, you wrote: > > > >>From: "Joe S Moore" > >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:59:27 -0700 > >> > >>They are not GEODESIC domes. > >> > >>============================== > >>Joe S Moore > >>joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > >>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > >>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > >>============================= > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> > >>>From: dr-solo@wi.rr.com > >>>Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:31:54 -0700 > >>> > >>>and the 3 plant domes in Milwaukee WI are what? > >>>chop suey? > >>>WI .... Milwaukee..... county park system .... horticultural domes (3) > >>>INgrid > >>> > >>>At 09:57 AM 5/9/2002 -0600, you wrote: > >>> >WA...Walla Walla...Walla Walla Comm Coll..19__...Junior College > >>> > >>>>WY..Sheridan..Northern Wyoming Comm Coll..19__...Hoffman Golden Dome > >>>> > > > > _______________________________ > > Lisa Hassebrock > > Planning Consultant > > > > Timberline Geodesics > > 2015 Blake Street > > Berkeley, CA 94704 > > > > www.domehome.com > > > > 800-DOMEHOME > > 800-366-3466 > > 510-849-4481 > > Fax: 510-849-3265 > > > > > > "Don't be square." > > > .:'':. > .::::::::. The DomeHome Email List . http://www.domegroup.org > > > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to > DOME at http://www.hoflin.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 21:30:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Organization: (Retired) Subject: Mitchell Park Domes Comments: To: "List, The DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I found a color aerial photo of the Mitchell Park dome greenhouses. http://www.vbe.com/~tfonstad/domes.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:54:31 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: Geodesic Sphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Guy in the Dirty Tee is D. Tillery. He is the Artist. I agree, without "getting dirty", it is only so many words. The proof is in the puddin. -----Original Message----- From: Dick Fischbeck [mailto:dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM] Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 12:18 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Geodesic Sphere Who is the guy in the dirty tee shirt? Ya gotta get dirty. --- Tony Kalenak wrote: > Hey guys, > Here is a little project I had fun with. > On this page are a couple of photos of an art piece done > by D. Tillery in > Dallas. > I supplied the geodesic design/drawings. > It is a 12' dia. sphere. > > http://cableone.net/amkalenak/PHOTOS-gdsc.htm > > > > -Tony. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:29:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205251642.g4PGg1500249@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii No, KU is on some other list, and I took the liberty to share it here. --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings > 25-MAY-2002 9:41 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > well, nice to see that you're not just lurking, KU! > > thus quoth: > It seems to me that "Randome" refers to a building > technique (fine tuning at runtime) more than to any > essential difference in the geometry at design time. > Kirby > > I agree. > > me, three. > > > --les ducs d'enron! > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > > > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:33:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205251701.g4PH1Ca00288@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What do _you_ call the angle between the strut and a radial line through the vertex, your geniusness??? > what in Hell he means by "axial angle," > I have no idea, if I ever recieved the same clue, twice; > sorry. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:27:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: randome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is a site with beautiful graphics of polyhedra built with the same idea as I have in the randome. This should clear up any confusion about what-I-am-talking-about(Brian, this means you). Steve Waterman located this site for the synergeo list this week. http://www.wmeadow.demon.co.uk/poly/ Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:19:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 28-MAY-2002 14:19 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us thanks for the definition of "axial angle," herr "Dick." I fail to see how this guy's things bolster your fuzzy idea. his 24-asteron is a snub dodecahedron, and the 44-asteron could be called a 2-freq one. his v=8 is known as a tetragonal ("square") antiprism. of course, it's very interesting of itself, if not too new, but you don't posit any *means* by which this stuff gets you off of the hook of actually creating a hypothesis. but don't worry about it; just think about it. thus quoth: Here is a site with beautiful graphics of polyhedra built with the same idea as I have in the randome. This should clear up any confusion about what-I-am-talking-about(Brian, this means you). Steve Waterman located this site for the synergeo list this week. http://www.wmeadow.demon.co.uk/poly/ this is a good, old (20th CCE) problem, getting the minimum-energy dystribution of vertices. did you try to grok polar triagnles and Napiers stuff? --les ducs d'enron! > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html > > > (temporary index.html while HS unscrews "up" -- again) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 04:32:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: <200205282119.g4SLJbL16744@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Brian Hutchings wrote: > <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings > 28-MAY-2002 14:19 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > thanks for the definition of "axial angle," herr "Dick." > I fail to see how this guy's things bolster your > fuzzy idea. > his 24-asteron is a snub dodecahedron, and > the 44-asteron could be called a 2-freq one. his v=8 is > known > as a tetragonal ("square") antiprism. > of course, it's very interesting of itself, > if not too new, I think what is "new" is the 23- asteron or the 25-asteron or the 41 asteron or the 47 asteron or...get the idea hutcheinstein? Unless you can point to where else it is in these billions of web pages or elsewhere. Any number you pick is fine. Maybe now you can see what I mean about r=sqrt[(n-2)/10] and volume=sqrt[(2/5)(n-2)^3, yes? Why not explore the possibility the maybe this isn't too hard for you. (You can get this) Dick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 05:29:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: more packing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry this is all cut up. It is a post from synergeo that pertains to recent talk. Dick > can not comment on your generator, of course. Random may be the "wrong" > word for me to use. I'll put it this way. An n-polyhedron with all The programming (code) is not the issue; what it does, conceptually, is. All you need to know is that by some magic I --and this person doing the V= point-distribution on a sphere-surface-- "give" the points the power to detect other points in space, and to back away from them by an amount that becomes evened out over the time it takes for them all to place themselves. Without a program, you'd take, say, a soccer ball and stick tiny round stickers all over it randomly, then you'd measure the distance from one to another, and move them one at a time until they were all about the same distance apart. No computer program necessary. (Of course, this'd probably take you a few hours, if not days, to do, which is why it's easier/faster to model it in the computer rather than with a soccer ball on a table . . .) Now, "random" is a special word. It means there's no rule or other constraint placed upon whatever-it-is you're trying to do. The minute you place a constraint or make a rule, "random" ceases to apply. However, in a common sense, in the populace at large, many words with specific meanings are used... uh... shall we say "freely" (especially when creating names for things), so your use of "Randome" --meaning a dome made with nonspecifically-lengthed struts, thus making it easy for anyone to build one of these-- is perfectly fine, and I'm not taking you to task on that. I just wanted to make note that "random" isn't what either the V= person's, or my, point-separation systems do. > triangles can be made with an incredibly large number of different Yes, and in that application, "Randome" is fine, and in the common/sloppy-English sense, "random" is borderline usage, doubtless acceptable to most people. Dice are said to fall randomly. They don't; we just don't know what the exact forces acting on them were. (Position in the hand; angles of exit from same; "spin" or "English" put on them; the exact impact dynamics as they hit the table --cloth covered or bare; temperature effects; composition of the plastic, bone, or other substance they're made from, etc. etc. etc. In this common-usage sense, people say anything they can't predict, whether they *could* if they knew everything required, or not, is a "random" process. In truth, to me, erstwhile student of QM's "nonlocality," there's nothing at all "random" in this Universe, only things we don't know enough about to be able to predict, but that's just my own extreme position, and was not used as I wrote earlier about "random." > strut lengths. That's all I mean by random. Maybe there is a preferred-> by-nature arrangement for each different number of vertexes. I don't> know. You have an important observation here.> > Again, this brings me back to the question of a boundry layer, or > shell, of a spherical packing of spheres. It's a worthy exercise, apparently. Modelling this is do-able many ways, since your spheres all have centers and the centers are points, there's a point-distribution problem no different in principle from the V= person's efforts, and your spheres-packed-in-a-sphere model would contain one of his point-separated models within it, one small-sphere radius deeper into it than the tangentially circumscribing large sphere you're packing into. The main difference between these types of packings and mine, is that I have interior spheres, which may or may not have some effect on the final distribution of the outermost layer's spheres. Peace JB jgbrawley@e... http://tetrahedraverse.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:47:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 29-MAY-2002 7:47 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us "you really are a Dick!" I mean, you really are a "Dick." why on Earth should I have to try to make sense of what is not-at-all-clear to you? where is the randomness, or how do you define such?... just look at your exalted odd-number "randomes," simply using the guy's minimum-energy criteria (which I don't think he proved, although he's got some sort of programmed algorithm; hey); it's interesting that they cannot be centrally symmetrical, but what else could you say about them? this really seems to be about you having a trademark, RanDome (tm), with a continual websearch for a patent to which to assign it -- if such exists. don't ask me to ascertain what your silly formulae are supposed to be; how'd you try to derive them? thus quoth: I think what is "new" is the 23- asteron or the 25-asteron or the 41 asteron or the 47 asteron or...get the idea hutcheinstein? Unless you can point to where else it is in these billions of web pages or elsewhere. Any number you pick is fine. Maybe now you can see what I mean about r=sqrt[(n-2)/10] and volume=sqrt[(2/5)(n-2)^3, yes? Why not explore the possibility the maybe this isn't too hard for you. (You can get this) that is assuming weigh two mutch. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:45:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: [Quaker-P] Re: Reaction to Guardian Report <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 29-MAY-2002 9:45 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us if you look at the last page of the latest *Scientific American*, you'll see that, while it offers a useful thought, there is not bother to compare the various "huge" bergs, other than one example that does not define the huge *differences -- except that you'll see it, just by looking at the Ross Ice Shelf, which is mentioned to be nearby to the Larsen B one. the relavance of the dysposition of the world's glaciers may also be important to the feeding-grounds of those fish, the beaching of whales etc. "prisoner's dilemma" is a simple example of "non-co-operative games," which just won the American Academy Award for Best Propoganda Dysguized as a Love Story ... well, how about "best free-trade dogma ignored by an autistic scriptwriter in favor of a human interest dilemma?" they're playing right into Russ Nelson's hand. "An Invisible Mind" ?? there's a drought from the Midwest to the West, and we have the Business-section drama of Vivendi, et leau de France et Britain -- at least. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') thus quoth: For those not familiar with the prisoner's dilemma, here's an explanation with regards to the fish market. Each producer has a choice to either stick to a quota or overfish. If everyone sticks to the quota, then the stock will replenish itself, and everyone will get the maximum sustainable amount of fish. If everyone overfishes, then the stock will collapse, and everyone will suffer. But if any individual decides to overfish while everyone else sticks to the quota, that individual will get an even more massive yield, capturing market share from the others. If that individual decides to stick to the quota while everyone else overfishes, then they will lose market share to the others that overfish. Logically, then, it is in each individual's best interest to overfish regardless of what the others do. And that is what is happening now in the real world. I've read that the cod stock northeast of Canada has collapsed to such a point that the cod have actually been replaced in the ecosystem by other species, and it's not known if stocks will ever be back to their previous levels. Is there any reason to believe that our other natural resources wouldn't become either "natural monopolies" or "prisoner's dillemmas?" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:10:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: [Quaker-P] Re: Reaction to Guardian Report <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 29-MAY-2002 10:10 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us cloudseeding is done regularly ... from airports. in some minds, this is known as, "Look; the chemtrails are falling!," although they never seem to make any dystinction between water vapor and any other white stuff. I mean, water droplets, or clouds. thus quoth: Human beings can't affect the weather? Are you sure about that? I remember reading a short history of the climate of Ethiopia. I was surprised to read that Ethiopia was until recently covered in forest, --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:19:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: stuff in the news <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 29-MAY-2002 10:19 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us back when E.Timor's caretaker's made the deal with Australia, the papers made it sound as if they'd been given a great deal. it turns-out that General Atomics is the company that'd had the concession from Portugal, which was dumped by Indonesia. now, it seems that the recent deal included only a small part of the gasfield, with GA supposedly aiming to get most of it back for E.Timor. the usual say-so about how Indonesia invaded, after the Portugeuse swept out, always avoids the larger colonial picture, in favor of haranguing poor, old Sir "Henry and the CIA." my own hypothesis is that the ETAN, led by one guy whose name is a concatenation of the old colonial (British) house that ran the area, set this up with the help of Pacifica Network (who weren't quite in on it, it seems .-) SUBJECT: Re: stuff in the news MESSAGE from ="List 28-MAY-20 13:39 <> Brian ?Quincy! Hutchings 26-MAY-2002 8:22 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us OK; in particular, see the stuff about E.Timor and Ceneral Atomics (!), as well as the stuff about run-off oil. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/Funny.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:29:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Re: Reaction to Guardian Report <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 30-MAY-2002 12:29 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us the fact that Eddy B., as a hold-over from the acquisition of Seagrams-Universal, is a bigshot shareholder, doesn't exactly bode very well for "consumers;" eh? these are the famous 'sponsors' of the "Hole" in the ozonosphere; that is to say, the trademarked nomenclature for an old patter of weather! thus quoth: Now, the production of the product, is a different matter and this may not have a declining cost nature, although, the efficiency of very large units is typical. Current deregulation efforts have emphasized the deregulation of the production process not the distribution. Consider the difference between the bottled water market with many suppliers and price competition, and the water used for household use and supplied via pipes. well, you can't blame the Gang for every amazing rip-off; eh? --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin') ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:11:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: [Quaker-P] Re: Prisoner's and apologies to all those bored t <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 31-MAY-2002 10:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us as a matter of philology, the derivation(s) of the word, real estate, may be a simple way to bug this out; it sounds like French --n'est-ce pas?-- from the proto-Adam Smit days of the Physiocrats. that's my hypothesis. as for game-theory, I was looking at a big book at Midnight Special, and the authors had a novel (to me) differentiion between "non-co-operative" games and "coalition" games, although they admitted that the latter was just a speical case of the former (wherein only individuals make decisions, sans communique). the dystinction that I'd formerly found was much simpler: the co-opeative games of Neumann (and before) are those in which every thing is on the table, as it were, as in Go. non-co-operative games have hidden hands, and so on. is that an accurate account? thus quoth: It's a monopoly in the sense that you can deny other people its use, but it's not granted by the state any more than your freedom of speech was granted to you by the state. --les ducs d'Enron! http://quincy4board.homestead.com /Funny.html -- schoolboard stuffin' & geometry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:17:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: [Quaker-P] Re: fish markets <> Brian ¿Quincy! Hutchings 31-MAY-2002 10:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this reminds me of Chase-Manhattan. it started as the private water co. for NYC, but was municiplaized after several outbreaks of cholera. of course, they went into another bidness, then! (and, they are just as over-leveraged, i suppose, in derivatives, as the other big banks on earth.) thus quoth: Take the DeBeers diamond monopoly. There are minor sources of non-deBeers diamonds, but the monopoly has basically held. But, its not a natural monopoly. A natural resource and a natural monopoly are not related concepts. Some natural resources are marketed with declining cost curves which give them a natural monopoly. Some natural resources are owned by a particular owner as a water resevoir, which allow a private entity to act as a monopolist supplier of the product. If they utilize a piping system to distribute, the declining cost curves give them a cost advantage which makes distribution a natural monopoly. If they used kegs and wagons for distribution as the Budweiser Beer Wagon, they would not have the same distribution cost structure. --les ducs d'Enron! > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/ > Funny.html (schoolboard stuffin')