From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 15 11:52:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i5FFqUa6012087 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:52:30 -0400 Message-Id: <200406151552.i5FFqUa6012087@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 15652 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 15:52:30 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 15:52:30 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:52:30 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0305" To: Chris Fearnley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Content-Length: 449645 Lines: 12535 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:00:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. 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Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:23:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: [Sph] Wu Shaoxiang Comments: To: sphere Comments: cc: synergeo In-Reply-To: <3EB04FD9.10509@pobox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Anton Sherwood wrote: > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > There are 2 ways to triangulate this apple. Connect > the > > coin centers, or extend the coins to fill the gaps. > > The second is problematic in spots where the curvature is > negative. I do not see the problem. Please explain. > > > The first way gives a poly of all trigons. > > The second gives a sort of Goldberg polyhedron. > > A what? A goldberg polyhedron has all hexagons except for either 4 trigons, 6 tetragons or 12 pentagons. "In his Virus Macromolecules and Geodesic Domes (1967), for example, H.S.M. Coxeter traced the newly emerging classification scheme for geodesic structures to mathematician Michael Goldberg's paper, A Class of Multi-Symmetric Polyhedra which appeared in 1937 (Tohoku Mathematics Journal, 43, 104 -108)." Kirby Urner > > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/ > > shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=142 > > Is this a photograph? If so, where is the original? http://www.plumblossoms.com/WuShaoxiang/wushaoxaing.html I actually found Wu's sculptures in this gallery during a visit to Soho. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 21:28:00 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Fullerene Generator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed what a nice, empirical formula for the "Goldberg" variations *cum* C-20(ii+ij+jj) (whre i and j are counting numbers). http://www.cochem2.tutkie.tut.ac.jp/Fuller/fsl/fsl.html See especially Goldberg Polyhedra. by Mitsuho Yoshida & Mitsutaka Fujita --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 23:18:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank, I'm having a hard time visualizing what you are writing about. Do you have a website where we can see pictures of models & drawings? -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "frank zubek" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: Re: dome math (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 23:42:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fuller's Last Dome Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A model of Fuller's last prototype autonomous geodesic dome:=20 http://architecture.mit.edu/~carlo/Autonomous-House-Scheme.gif Double rigid tensegrity. Both shells rotated. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:03:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Frank, > > I'm having a hard time visualizing what you are > writing about. Do you have > a website where we can see pictures of models & > drawings? Joe, here is my web.site http://www.clowder.net/zubek/zubek.html It think you are familiar with the "elusive cube" I remember that we exchanged some info while back regarding the system of connecting 176 magnets in this set which newer repel. As far the topic we been going back and fort, reason is that synergetics is a different discipline, where all I claim is more of a surface evaluation of triangles and solids of one common vertex, nothing to really do with synergetics. Synergetics more less becomes involved when I said that the octane appears to be the absolute limit of size, least I can't found a smaller brick in the wall construction. To me it becomes reasonable to ask whats are the limits of minima and maxima. What is the tallest building limit one can build on this Earth, What is the absolute limit the mountain can grow in to on this Earth. Would all the mountains and all the land masses if scraped at the sea level fill the concavity where the ocean and seas are? There are many questions and each and every one has it's answers. How many trees I can chop down, before the forest is doomd or can still survive. How much I can pollute the air before it becomes inbreed able. I have no drawings for the bricks for the wall, wall is a structure which can grow in all directions just like a plain ordenirary wall. No gaps or voids in it otherwise it can be skewed, it can be like a prism, it can be of any shape, where I have found out that a set limit of size would allow one brick to be the absolute minimal in size. I'm just looking for a single one brick in that structure where all other bricks can be of any size and shape. There is no guide lines, just try to build a structure where the shortest edge of least one brick in that structure would bee less than a 1/8 octahedron. It appears that if the shortest edge of that brick going to be the limit of minima as one unit length, that there is no brick smaller than a 1/8 octahedron. To understand this just set your limit to some length and than try to build on that restriction. There may be a whole lot of solutions but none goes below that octane. Is Fermat's theorem a theorem? or it is just because he is Fermat. Would any one consider the dissections of a cube in to two identical cubes as the greatest puzzles of all times if it would be proposed by me, or it would be ignored or mixed with other irrelevancies, where the deeper one goes the more distant and more fuzzy the problem would become to be. I think the wall puzzle is actually more plausible, because it can be tested where Fermat's theorem is only comprehended actually only by five mathematitions evnthough, hundreds of individuals have try it. That is like I would say that I have discovered a 10th planet but there is only me and four other who actually can see it. So now than, does this planet really exists or it only exists for only few of as. frank > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "frank zubek" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 4:08 PM > Subject: Re: dome math > (snip) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 21:51:57 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I forgot about the "magnetic confinement" of your shapes; if that hasn't been done, before, you could patent it. *if*. most of the shapes are apparent, but how did you get what you call the "dobule corner?..." many polyhedra can be divided into these "quadrirectangular tetrahedra," so we'd have to know, which one that you derived it from ... OK, duh; The Hexahedron!... (incidentally, the qyoob can be subdivided into just six of them, not the usual 48 .-) also, it seems to me that your "doeble qyoob," if it's made from subcomponents of 8 qyoobs that each consist of one reg.tetrah. and 4 octah.octants, whould have only 40 pieces. or, did you hide some of your "double corners" in it? anyway, it is impossible to tell what your criteria are for making decisions on this stuff, from what you write, and it may not be peculiar to your native tongue; it reads almost exctly like "standard Gibberish;" you're lucky, because in the USA, there are many who could really use a course, known as "English as a FIRST Language." I'll tell you one thing, though: you cannot "build space" with just octahedra, if it is meant to be packed solid, *nor with their component octants*; everyone who "knoweth Bucky," knoweth that. I don't know, why you'd think such a thing, after all of your work with those manipulatives (or all of your manipulations of those working-units !-) still wanna give me 500 smackers?... I could certainly ab/use it! thus quoth: I have no drawings for the bricks for the wall, wall is a structure which can grow in all directions just like a plain ordenirary wall. No gaps or voids in it --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 19:35:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I forgot about the "magnetic confinement" of your > shapes; if > that hasn't been done, before, > you could patent it. *if*. Yes, I have done so, patents however are only as good as your pockets are deep. If you end up suing all Chinese,Mexicans and all beck yard manufacturerers as it was with Rubik's cube Lowyers end up to be on your payrole. most of the shapes are apparent, but > how did you get what you call the "dobule > corner?..." I just give it the name because I do not know if it already has a name. That is actually my faworite shape. It is exactly 1/6 of a first order cube. It takes three left and three right D.C to build a cube. It also can build it's larger self it takes 4 left and 4 right. to do so. Inchbald wrote me that they have use that same shape in ancient China as a volume unit. As you see that shape contains the with,depth and height of the cube all these edges are at 90deg.to one and other. > many polyhedra can be divided into these > "quadrirectangular > tetrahedra," so we'd have to know, > which one that you derived it from ... OK, duh; To build the wall, you are free to use any shapes you are not constrained to my set only constrain is the unit length. In the two freq cube you see on the web.page the double cor. is in the core of the two freq. octane. Left, right one of each, two solid kites and four small octanes are the building blocks of a large octane. Other combination is a reg. tet. in the middle and 6 octanes, which also going to be a large octane. The Hexahedron!... (incidentally, > the qyoob can be subdivided into just six of them, > not the usual 48 .-) Yes you are right, so there is 8 cubes in a twofreq.cube and 6x8= 48 > also, it seems to me that your "doeble qyoob," > if > it's made from subcomponents of 8 qyoobs > that each consist of one reg.tetrah. and 4 > octah.octants, no only for cubes have a reg,tet and 4 octants. > whould have only 40 pieces. or, > did you hide some of your "double corners" in it? My set contains only 44 shapes, because the reg. tet is very elementary and there is only 4 in the whole set. According to the rule I have caried out in this dissection there shpould be only 40 pieces but when I dissected the large reg.tet there was a octahedron in it's core so I just choped it in to 8 pieces. That's why there is this weird # of pieces. > anyway, it is impossible to tell what your criteria > are > for making decisions on this stuff, > from what you write, and it may not be peculiar > to your native tongue; it reads almost exctly > like "standard Gibberish;" you're lucky, because > in the USA, there are many who could really use a > course, > known as "English as a FIRST Language." There is no one I know in the whole wide world to get a "course English as *FIRST* language. *FIRST* language is usually the language our parents speak it is not a matter of choise. I will never be as good as if I would be born here, but 34% of people *graduaded* high school can't read or write, so I do somewhat better than that. I'll tell you one thing, though: > you cannot "build space" with just octahedra, if > it is meant to be packed solid, I'm aware of that. > *nor with their component octants*; I'm aweare of that to, but octants, least can build a octahedron with out of the complement of any other shapes. > everyone who "knoweth Bucky," knoweth that. I don't > know, > why you'd think such a thing, > after all of your work with those manipulatives (or > all of your manipulations of those working-units !-) I have newer said that octanes them self can build anything other than a octahedron. All I know that the reg. tat. can not do even that. Reg. tet. is absolutely helpeles on it's own. Most importantelly it is the octane which is the most common and the most important piece in all structures least in this set. I can replace the reg. tet. for three solid kites. Three solid kites and three octanes are also a cube. > still wanna give me 500 smackers?... > I could certainly ab/use it! I know you could, well just keep trying maybe one day but honestly I think the octane is the limit if the shorthest edge is the unit length. > thus quoth: > I have no drawings for the bricks for the wall, wall > is a structure which can grow in all directions just > like a plain ordenirary wall. No gaps or voids in it > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 00:29:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed congratulation, you made the same dyscovery that I made, some time ago, that you can divide the hexahedron into 6 identical parts, instead of 48. likewise, the tetrahedron can be so-divided into 4 parts, instead of the usual division into 24 quadrirect. tetrah. (that is the most-common name for your "double corner," as it consists of 4 right trigona). the reason that Fermat's "Last" Theorem was generally considered to be true (and still is for the vast bulk of us, who don't want to slog through Wiles' "proof"), is because *none* of his many, many other unproven conjectures were wrong, as shown by a hundred years after he died. if you can't afford the 500, fine, but you've repeatedly stated that the "octane" was such a brick. 'to build a nice wall of any sort." it doesn't matter that Fuller used taht term for another shape, but you may have been trying to mean some thing else ... another feature of the "martian" language of Hungary, perhaps? --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 00:31:36 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you still did not comment on your two mistakes, and I spoteed another one, as well, related to "the 19th cce study called, crystallography." --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 07:48:53 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > you still did not comment on your two mistakes, and > I spoteed another one, as well, > related to "the 19th cce study called, > crystallography." What kinde of mistake? Mistakes are possible, but it mostlikely that we just misunderstud one and other. Be specific I will try to clarify. > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 08:23:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > congratulation, > you made the same dyscovery that I made, > some time ago, that you can divide the hexahedron > into 6 identical parts, instead of 48. I think none of us made that discovery, since that shape has a ancient origin and use in the volume unit in China. likewise, > the tetrahedron can be so-divided into 4 parts, > instead of the usual division into 24 quadrirect. > tetrah. Well Fuller done his divission based on the 1/4 reg.tet.division and than he divided each 1/4 in to six identical shapes Q-mods=24 > (that is the most-common name for your "double > corner," > as it consists of 4 right trigona). > > the reason that Fermat's "Last" Theorem was > generally considered > to be true (and still is for the vast bulk of us, > who don't want to slog through Wiles' "proof"), is > because > *none* of his many, many other unproven conjectures > were wrong, > as shown by a hundred years after he died. > > if you can't afford the 500, fine, but > you've repeatedly stated that the "octane" was such > a brick. > 'to build a nice wall of any sort." Yes I have say that but meant not entairelly made from the same bricks. I just seeking one brick in a whole structure. If one find just one meeasly brick in the wall which would be smaller than 1/8 oct. I have also staded that the octet truss is such a structure, Dick got confused because in a octet truss one can not see octanes only it's base as a equilateral trin. Four octanes to one reg.tet. I have newer claimed anything else it may have been misinterpreted. Octane is a such brick in the wall, but not entairelly just octane. I can build the wall by several different ways and in each every one the octane is the smallest one. There can bee three octanes, two or four in any of these attempts. I just saying that in any combinations octane appears to be the smallest brick. Find just one smaller brick than that, the rest of the shapes just have to fit in to a wall construction, disregard of they size. No brick is smaller than a octane. If you got one that i have to send you your money. > it doesn't matter that Fuller used taht term > for another shape, but you may have been trying > to mean some thing else ... another feature > of the "martian" language of Hungary, perhaps? I'm not Hungarian oficially eventhough was rased that way. My nationality used to be Slovak curently I'm stateles a man with no country no citizenship. Well that's unusual since Kirby and almost everybody else asked or implied that the name octant is unfamiliar to them evnthough I have toke it from some synergetic writing. It may could be possible that Fuller use that term for a another shape, but I'm not aware of any other shape which would build a octahedron by all identical shapes. > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 20:16:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: geodetical structures Comments: To: Umberto Gastaldi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Umberto, Here is the information I have as of Sept 2000: _Strutture Geodetiche_ Self-Published by Biagio di Carlo (1999) [244 pages with b&w drawings] School of Architecture Pescara University Pescara, Italy bdicarl@tin.it Ref: http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-StruttureGeodetiche.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Umberto Gastaldi=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 7:53 AM Subject: geodetical structures Hello,=20 my name is Umberto Gastaldi and I'm dooing a these about the = geodetic... In your site there are some information... In particular there is a = book (by Biagio Di Carlo) intitoled "Strutture geodetiche"... I'm really = interessed about it, so I would contact mr Di Carlo... Maybe you have = some more information about him and his book... I hope you can help me... Thanks Umberto Gastaldi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 07:31:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: dancing helix model Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Worth the download time, a few minutes. Easy to construct. http://www.caduces.com/images/clips/movie05compressed.mov __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 07:36:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: How are those domes created....piping yes, but no faces? Comments: To: mike@allenagenda.com Comments: cc: synergeo In-Reply-To: <000a01c311af$4c12b7f0$3befea0c@c1552528a> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mike I am passing on your questions to people that might be able to help you. I know nothing about code myself. Good luck. Dick --- Mike Allen wrote: > Hello, I am a Maya digital artist and came across your > profile at the > Design Science Workshop for Geodesic domes. I am trying > to create a > "City of the Future" complete with dome geometry. I > ideally would like a > dome that is composed of piping...like the illustration > on the forum > page (The glowing dome). I could apply a metal shader to > the piping and > create a sphere inside that and apply a glass > shader...get the picture. > Kinda like the Space ships carrying the last remaining > forests in > "Silent Running." Remember that film? :-) Great to to see > that the > creator is adding *.OBJ export now. Do you know what > the settings were > used to create that dome? My attempts now are hit and > miss. I still > haven't created a dome, like the illustration on that > forum page, that > just has the piping..no faces. > > Any suggestions welcome. > (heers, > Mike > http://www.allenagenda.com > The image used on on the forum page.... http://www.applied-synergetics.com/ashp/forum/ Please give a link to the picture. I don't know what dome you are referring to. http://www.lunadude.com/pet_proj/valley_forge/models.htm >I could apply a metal shader to > the piping and > create a sphere inside that and apply a glass > shader...get the picture. > Kinda like the Space ships carrying the last remaining > forests in > "Silent Running." What years was this film? I'll check it out. I'm not familiar with it. 1973 I believe... > Remember that film? :-) Great to to see > that the > creator is adding *.OBJ export now. What does this mean? That the guy who develops Windome software modified it so it can export *.obj file format. > Do you know what > the settings What do you mean settings? Software settings to generate the dome.. >were > used to create that dome? My attempts now are hit and > miss. I still > haven't created a dome, like the illustration on that > forum page, Which illustration? The illustration on this page: http://www.applied-synergetics.com/ashp/forum/ > that > just has the piping..no faces. What is piping? Structure....lattice work.....non-face __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 21:30:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed as no one said any thing, the first time that I told of it, you are not "one of the two kinds of people" who seem to populate this list; however, I seriously doubt your claim about ye olde Chinese; like, did you just make that "up?" if no-one followed it, the first time, I'll repeat it: the 6 shapes are exactly the same as the 48, but doubled in their dimensions. this also means that the whole, put together, is "polarized" along one axis (and it can be so-built along 3 different axes .-) the similar division of the tetrahedron is *not* what fuller did, since his 24 "LCDs" are obviously not just four ... but it's the exact, same shape. however, Bucky *did* find a "single, measly brick," which is called "the mite;" naturally, I call it the RD-module, since it's the quadrirect. tetrah. that the rhobical dodecah. can be subdivided into. same game: what's the least number of them to be chopped?... maybe, just "the R-module," but I probably have a better name for it, now, that I think of it, again. if you were really just making such a big deal out of dissecting the octahedron, fine; it's true that that chunk is the smallest, without rights & lefts, I guess. thus quoth: I think none of us made that discovery, since that shape has a ancient origin and use in the volume unit in China. --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:21:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wondering: Does this help me build a better dome? David On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 02:30 PM, Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > as no one said any thing, the first time that I told of it, > you are not "one of the two kinds of people" who seem to populate this > list; > however, > I seriously doubt your claim about ye olde Chinese; like, > did you just make that "up?" > if no-one followed it, the first time, I'll repeat it: > the 6 shapes are exactly the same as the 48, but > doubled in their dimensions. this also means that > the whole, put together, is "polarized" along one axis (and > it can be so-built along 3 different axes .-) > > the similar division of the tetrahedron is *not* what fuller did, since > his 24 "LCDs" are obviously not just four ... but > it's the exact, same shape. > however, Bucky *did* find a "single, measly brick," > which is called "the mite;" naturally, > I call it the RD-module, since it's the quadrirect. tetrah. > that the rhobical dodecah. can be subdivided into. same game: > what's the least number of them to be chopped?... maybe, > just "the R-module," but I probably have a better name for it, > now, that I think of it, again. > > if you were really just making such a big deal > out of dissecting the octahedron, fine; it's true that > that chunk is the smallest, without rights & lefts, I guess. > > thus quoth: > I think none of us made that discovery, since that > shape has a ancient origin and use in the volume unit > in China. > > --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... > La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols > des Grises de Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): > 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 > 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE > 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU > 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:59:04 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: New Forums Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 7 new Bucky-related forums administered by Rick Bono: http://www.applied-synergetics.com/ashp/forum/ -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 19:48:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Jeffrey Lindsay Comments: To: liacas Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Ms Liacas, It is my belief that Dr Fuller created the Fuller Research Foundation--Canadian Division; therefore, his estate probably controls any copyrights related to the Hackney Farm barn project--unless they were transferred to the Buckminster Fuller Archives at Stanford University. You may contact the executor through the Buckminster Fuller Institute at http://www.bfi.org/ , and the Fuller Archives at http://dynaweb.oac.cdlib.org/dynaweb/ead/stanford/mss/m1090/ . For your information here are some references about the barn: "Geodesic Barn", Canadian Art mag, July 1955, p ? _The Geodesic Works of R Buckminster Fuller 1948-68, vol 2_, fig 2.18b (6 b&w pics) _BuckyWorks_, p 113 (1 b&w pic) _Your Private Sky R Buckminster Fuller, The Art of Design Science_, p 378 (2 color pics) "Dairy Farm, Circa 1955", Plastics Newsfront mag, vol X, No 1, 1955, p ? _The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller_, fig 349 (p 191) [1 b&w pic] And here's a color pic http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Dome-BarnFrame.jpg Here's some refs for Mr Lindsay: http://buckminster.info/Index/Lifea-Lits.htm (scroll down to "Lindsay") The BFI may know how to contact him--if he's still around. Hope this helps, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "liacas" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 3:25 PM Subject: Jeffrey Lindsay > Dear Mr. Moore, > > We are publishing a book on Canadian Women in Architecture. As a reference > of time in architecture we would like to include a 1953 photograph taken by > Jeffrey Lindsay of a geodesic cow barn that he designed for Dr. Hackney at > Senneville Que. We need copyright permission and we do not know how to > reach Mr. Lindsay. > Would you know of his whereabouts or have his email ? > > Sincerely, > > Natalie Liacas > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:06:23 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: dome math en tampico In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Here here david lane, right on target there! I asked months ago for help designing, building purchasing an octet truss but these guys are into nuclear physics....... Does make for interesting reading sometimes though, especially from este hombre en tampico. If you find a practical list, please send me their direction. pancho El 6/5/03 01:21, "David Lane" escribi=F3: > Just wondering: > Does this help me build a better dome? >=20 > David >=20 > On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 02:30 PM, Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: >=20 >> as no one said any thing, the first time that I told of it, >> you are not "one of the two kinds of people" who seem to populate this >> list; >> however, >> I seriously doubt your claim about ye olde Chinese; like, >> did you just make that "up?" >> if no-one followed it, the first time, I'll repeat it: >> the 6 shapes are exactly the same as the 48, but >> doubled in their dimensions. this also means that >> the whole, put together, is "polarized" along one axis (and >> it can be so-built along 3 different axes .-) >>=20 >> the similar division of the tetrahedron is *not* what fuller did, since >> his 24 "LCDs" are obviously not just four ... but >> it's the exact, same shape. >> however, Bucky *did* find a "single, measly brick," >> which is called "the mite;" naturally, >> I call it the RD-module, since it's the quadrirect. tetrah. >> that the rhobical dodecah. can be subdivided into. same game: >> what's the least number of them to be chopped?... maybe, >> just "the R-module," but I probably have a better name for it, >> now, that I think of it, again. >>=20 >> if you were really just making such a big deal >> out of dissecting the octahedron, fine; it's true that >> that chunk is the smallest, without rights & lefts, I guess. >>=20 >> thus quoth: >> I think none of us made that discovery, since that >> shape has a ancient origin and use in the volume unit >> in China. >>=20 >> --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... >> La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols >> des Grises de Kyoto: >> (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ >> BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. >> Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): >> 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 >> 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE >> 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU >> 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. >> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 06:45:55 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: octet truss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is your question about the octet truss? Blair ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 11:45:06 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Subject: Re: dome math en tampico In-Reply-To: <4BD18.25FE%cqa@kobo.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pancho- I have a kit for making the octet truss. Write me at=20 megadome@meganet.net for details. Bob Sanderson >Here here david lane, right on target there! > >I asked months ago for help designing, building purchasing an octet truss >but these guys are into nuclear physics....... Does make for interesting >reading sometimes though, especially from este hombre en tampico. > >If you find a practical list, please send me their direction. > >pancho > >El 6/5/03 01:21, "David Lane" escribi=F3: > >=20 > Just wondering: >=20 > Does this help me build a better dome? >=20 > >=20 > David >=20 > >=20 > On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 02:30 PM, Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: >=20 > >=20 >> as no one said any thing, the first time that I told of it, >=20 >> you are not "one of the two kinds of people" who seem to populate th= is >=20 >> list; >=20 >> however, >=20 >> I seriously doubt your claim about ye olde Chinese; like, >=20 >> did you just make that "up?" >=20 >> if no-one followed it, the first time, I'll repeat it: >=20 >> the 6 shapes are exactly the same as the 48, but >=20 >> doubled in their dimensions. this also means that >=20 >> the whole, put together, is "polarized" along one axis (and >=20 >> it can be so-built along 3 different axes .-) >=20 >> >=20 >> the similar division of the tetrahedron is *not* what fuller did, si= nce >=20 >> his 24 "LCDs" are obviously not just four ... but >=20 >> it's the exact, same shape. >=20 >> however, Bucky *did* find a "single, measly brick," >=20 >> which is called "the mite;" naturally, >=20 >> I call it the RD-module, since it's the quadrirect. tetrah. >=20 >> that the rhobical dodecah. can be subdivided into. same game: >=20 >> what's the least number of them to be chopped?... maybe, >=20 >> just "the R-module," but I probably have a better name for it, >=20 >> now, that I think of it, again. >=20 >> >=20 >> if you were really just making such a big deal >=20 >> out of dissecting the octahedron, fine; it's true that >=20 >> that chunk is the smallest, without rights & lefts, I guess. >=20 >> >=20 >> thus quoth: >=20 >> I think none of us made that discovery, since that >=20 >> shape has a ancient origin and use in the volume unit >=20 >> in China. >=20 >> >=20 >> --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... >=20 >> La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols >=20 >> des Grises de Kyoto: >=20 >> (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ >=20 >> BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. >=20 >> Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): >=20 >> 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 >=20 >> 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE >=20 >> 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU >=20 >> 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! >=20 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> _________________________________________________________________ >=20 >> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. >=20 >> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail >=20 >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:10:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Re: dome math en tampico In-Reply-To: <4BD18.25FE%cqa@kobo.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree it is sometimes interesting reading, I was just wondering how it might apply, too. On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 03:06 AM, Frank wrote: > but these guys are into nuclear physics....... Does make for=20 > interesting reading sometimes though > El 6/5/03 01:21, "David Lane" escribi=F3: > >> Just wondering: >> Does this help me build a better dome? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:23:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math en tampico In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't think shape matters. I think number of vertexes, area of faces, perimeter of faces, and volume do matter when one wishes to build a geodesic structure or a tensegrity structure. What's its frequency? How many edges does it have? Dick --- David Lane wrote: > I agree it is sometimes interesting reading, > I was just wondering how it might apply, too. > > > On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 03:06 AM, Frank wrote: > > > but these guys are into nuclear physics....... Does > make for > > interesting reading sometimes though > > > El 6/5/03 01:21, "David Lane" > escribió: > > > >> Just wondering: > >> Does this help me build a better dome? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 12:38:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: European Electricity Grid Comments: To: "Meisen, Peter" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Trans-European Energy Networks" (Sept 1997) Great brochure from the European Commission's Directorate-General for = Energy showing current & proposed electricity distribution networks: http://europa.eu.int/comm/energy/library/ten.pdf [See maps on pages 19-29] -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:14:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the main thing that Bucky brought-forth was the cetnrality of the tetrahedron, as the simplest of conceptual shapes. what he did not, is that the hexahedron has just as much importance, the same as that of the tetrahedron/tetrasteron (it's autodual; proviso: only the *matrix* of hexahedra is autodual .-) this is just "general knowledge," which is supposed to be buttressed by a good course of synthetic (construtive) geometry. of course, moo-ha-ha, the best book for that is _Modern Pure Solid Geometry_. if you just want to use some-one's dome-ware, taht is your option! you can prove to yourself (it's not in _S_) that the "mite" of 2 As and 1B is the same as the "LCD" of the rh.dodecah. (tetrakaidecaXIasteron), by constructing the RD of an octahedron with 8 tetrah. quadrants on it. I could say more, but see the plates in _S_ via my sig ... here it is: http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plate17.html -- and see http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plate25.html for the Abused Hexahedron. now, as soon as Zube has burnt-down his Doob, and configured just exactly what his criterium is for "a brick," then I'll be able to dyscuss his goofy errors -- this may require a translator, though. probably, he'll figure it out, by the time he gets the lingo -- and the geometry -- "down." if not, I may even waive a part of my fee -- 500 Federal Reserve Notes, in April Fool's 2003 cce valuation (in case of inflation or deflation, which seems to be coming). thus quoth: Just wondering: Does this help me build a better dome? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 15:41:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Just wondering: Does this help me build a better dome? Define better dome, please. What's better to you? Cheaper, easier, more versatile, lighter, stronger? What do you want in a dome. Fire proof, insect proof, hurricane proof, earthequake proof, corrosion proof, recyclable, leak proof? Self-regulating temperature? Air deliverable? Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 15:44:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math en tampico In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- David Lane wrote: > I agree it is sometimes interesting reading, > I was just wondering how it might apply, too. > > > On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 03:06 AM, Frank wrote: > > > but these guys are into nuclear physics....... Is that a seperate department? Each special case conceptioning must begin with Universe. How does the octane fit into the big picture? Dick > Does > make for > > interesting reading sometimes though > > > El 6/5/03 01:21, "David Lane" > escribió: > > > >> Just wondering: > >> Does this help me build a better dome? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:49:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed rectally extrudable. seriously, your stupid crap about vertexions has nothing to do with shape -- can you still be seriously pounding away at that? thus quoth: Self-regulating temperature? Air deliverable? --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 03:27:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Tiling space and slabs with acute tetrahedra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed nice paper (I'm sure, from the title) by Eppstein & co.: http://arxiv.org/abs/cs.CG/0302027 --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 03:32:54 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Tiling space and slabs with acute tetrahedra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops; that was in reply, by E., to this query on Usenet (RIP; Googol Plex): I need a mesh generator (preferably freeware) which will mesh the problem space using PURELY acute triangles. Most of the mesh generators I have seen are based on Delaunay triangles which ensure quality by maximising the minimum angle. However, since right angled triangles fall on the limit of the Delaunay criterion, they are allowed by all of the software that I have seen. Unfortunatly, the problem that I am solving requires the circumcentre to lie "safely" within the triangle and will fail with right-angled triangles or where the angle approaches 90 degrees. Ideally I wish to be able to impose a maximum as well as a minimum angle on the triangles. I know that research has been done on partitioning using acute triangles, but I have not found any freely available mesh generators which implement it. This is not really my area, so I wondered if anybody has had any experience with this type of problem or could recommend any software to me. thus saith: nice paper (I'm sure, from the title) by Eppstein & co.: http://arxiv.org/abs/cs.CG/0302027 --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 04:50:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What are you talking about? It works, as you'd find out if you made a simple model. But why do that when you have so much more fun making comments regarding feces? Stop whining. Help advance something instead of acting like yours doesn't have the same offensive odor. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > rectally extrudable. > seriously, > your stupid crap about vertexions has nothing to do with > shape -- > can you still be seriously pounding away at that? > > thus quoth: > Self-regulating temperature? Air deliverable? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 01:43:16 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this should belong in the "I Have No Hands, but I Must Type!" category. why would anyone say that "my vertonoids have nothing to do with shape," unless they were BSing them self(s) ?? you're like one "James Harris" on sci.math, with his endless proof of Fermat's "Last" Theorem; why don't you ever admit your most obvious mistakes? --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:36:39 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: not all Coneheads are from France .-) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Yo quince,=20 Benjamin frankin resents you that remarque... El 25/4/03 02:38, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escribi=F3: > I ain't talking about "grammatical errors," Zube, but > about one of the most oft-repeated "Greek mystaques," > around here in Buckyland, to wit, > "A trigon is only half of a tetragon" --F.Zubek > what you're examining is the fact that > a regular tetragon (skware) can be "decomposed" > into two trigona (that aren't regular), > which is some thing that most of us'd already learnt. > (the Bucky-spiel goes, > "see, this silly tetragon is floppy, > when made of sticks with flexible joints, and > WHEN IT'S NOT DIVIDED INTO TWO TRIGONA > BY A 'DIAGONAL BRACE'" .-) > UNFORTNATELY, oops, > this factoid is used by most "mathemeticians," > including geometers, in the opposite way that you do. why? > because you're only looking at the size > of the trigon, qua its having been dussected > from a tetragon, as if that's what a trigon *is*. >=20 > that fact that they do use it in that way, says nothing > about the fact that they also happen to use the skware > as their "unit of aerial mensuration." > of course, > the same goes for the hexahedron (qyoob) and > the tetrahedron in space. >=20 > if you want to rely on Dick, being alone with you > in your corner, fine. as it is, > he's got his own problem -- > the Dick/Joe/Jacques Conjecture (which just goes > to show, not all Coneheads are from France .-) >=20 > thus quoth: >> base time height divided by two. Triangle is always >> 1/2 of a square, rectangular, rhombus, or >> parallelogram. Therefore triangle is the smallest of >> two dimensional shapes and it is only a 1/2 shape. >=20 > So what is wrong with the statement above? You always > correcting people or I should say > (annoying)parafraising ancient texts as to say that > there is nothing one can produce by different method > than the ancient conventional one. >=20 > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:25:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > this should belong in the "I Have No Hands, but > I Must Type!" category. why would anyone say that > "my vertonoids have nothing to do with shape," > unless they were BSing them self(s) ?? The answer is- One can build a geodesic structure without using complex calculations. These structures are available to anyone, even you dysmart, aka qqq. I should have said symmetry doesn't matter, not shape doesn't matter. But you are more interested in acting like some geometry cop/thug than you are in getting somewhere synergetically. How do you get off bullying people? Where's your improved dome? > you're like one "James Harris" on sci.math, > with his endless proof of Fermat's "Last" Theorem; > why don't you ever admit your most obvious mistakes? Which one?? Don't make this about you and me. We are talking about building structures. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:17:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dancing helix model Comments: To: tyson.harty@orst.edu In-Reply-To: <3EBAE7F2.F09A6F00@orst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Tyson The one I saw in the store used a rubber strip for the spine. It was prabably 4 cm wide. The elasticity of the spine will obviously change the frequency of the wave. I think fabric could also work for the spine. A length of ribbon comes to mind. This is pure precessional behavior, I think. The cross pieces could be anything; wood, metal, plastic. The weight of the balls at the ends of the cross pieces will effect performance as well, of course. Write back if you construct one. Dick --- Tyson Harty wrote: --------------------------------- Dick, A question about "easy to construct" . . . is the center vertical spinea flat piece of metal, to which are bonded the crossing horizontal members? It was hard to get detail from the images at the caduces.com site, butthis is what I guessed. I have not seen one of these helices up close. . . but the motion is certainly intriguing. Cheers, Tyson -- Tyson H. Harty Department of Zoology Oregon State University Corvallis, Oregon 97331 USA Email: tyson.harty@orst.edu Dick Fischbeck wrote:Worth the download time, a few minutes. Easy to construct. http://www.caduces.com/images/clips/movie05compressed.mov __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:34:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: maine tech show Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just in case someone out there might be interested in this.... http://www.mainetechshow.com/ It's in ten days, so if you happen to be downeast, stop by the Randome table at the show! Dean Kamen of the Segway(tm) personal transport device will speak at the event. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 19:41:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: maine tech show Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Randomania, or Every Thing I Know, I learned BEFORE Kindergarten; I was raised in a shanty-town! too bad, you're not going to have a webcam with feedback, so that we can make fun of you! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 19:53:31 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dancing helix model Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it looks like that stainless-steel srapping that's used to hold boxes on pallets etc.; how they applied the cross-elements'd be interesting. that was really fascinating. I'd never used quicktime, before, and when I hit Ctrl-back-arrow to go back to the list, it reversed the video. I guess, because of the limits of the CPU, it slowed-down & speeded-up all the way backwards, but it was otherwise hard to dystinguish from fprwards. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 19:59:44 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "symmetry" is nothing but the appreciation of shape, and it probably why Bucky used Coxeter's books so God-am much;\ your going hogwild over the apical elements of trigonated structures, or what ever in Hell you think it is that you're building, is neither here, nor any where. of course, just because one doesn't have the language *or* math to be able to communicate, doesn't mean that one can't build some thing; I've just never seen a single example, that you could explain, that threw any light on the subject of randomania. "Energy hath shape, and I mean it!" --Rugrat Buckafka Fullofit --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 15:37:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dancing helix model In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > it looks like that stainless-steel srapping that's used > to hold boxes on pallets etc.; It's plain old rubber, in this case. > how they applied the cross-elements'd be interesting. Glue? Why not? >that was really fascinating. It is even way better in person. >I'd never used > quicktime, before, and > when I hit Ctrl-back-arrow to go back to the list, > it reversed the video. I guess, because of the limits of > the CPU, > it slowed-down & speeded-up all the way backwards, but > it was otherwise hard to dystinguish from fprwards. It's a reflecting wave. It has a left twist and a right __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 15:50:53 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: maine tech show In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > Randomania, or > Every Thing I Know, I learned BEFORE Kindergarten; > I was raised in a shanty-town! You are not naive. Try it, if you remember it. > too bad, you're not going to have a webcam with feedback, > so that we can make fun of you! Who is we? I think you are alone in this. I'll take a picture. How's that? Victor Acevedo videotaped Tivoli. Why don't you watch that? If you are interested, give me your mailing address and I'll send you a model. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 16:07:41 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > "symmetry" is nothing but the appreciation of shape, It is? And what is asymmetry? And why did you use quotes? > and it probably why Bucky used Coxeter's books so God-am > much;\ > your going hogwild over the apical elements of trigonated > structures, You DO understand. So what's your grip? > or what ever in Hell you think it is that you're > building, > is neither here, nor any where. > of course, just because one doesn't have the > language *or* math > to be able to communicate, doesn't mean that one can't > build some thing; Thank you very much. > I've just never seen a single example, that you could > explain, > that threw any light on the subject of randomania. I'm giving you models. They speak for themselves. I'm giving you formulas. What do you want?? > > "Energy hath shape, and I mean it!" --Rugrat Buckafka > Fullofit __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 21:12:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Another dome found Comments: To: Geoff Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geoff, Thanks for the info. I'll add it to the list: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-Massachusetts.htm Do you see any other corrections or deletions that should be made? Is yours the one at 105 Reservoir Rd in Otis? If so, do you want me to = rename it, for example, "Geoff's Residence"? Also, what dome company = built your dome? Do I have the diameter & year correct? -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Geoff=20 To: Joe S Moore=20 Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 3:27 PM Subject: Another dome found While exploring a dirt road in town I found another geodesic = residence, maybe a 30' diameter? (About the same size as mine) The address is 2110 West Center Road, Otis, Massachusetts. Geoff C. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 21:41:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Dome Inc. Info Request Comments: To: blair wolfram Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blair, The poster is from Takenaka Corp's website; see: http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e/dome_e/history/tech/table.html Maybe they sell copies; you'll have to ask. In order for it to print = out properly you have to tell your printer to print the background color = also (instead of the default white). _The Artifacts of Buckminster Fuller_ has four (4) volumes; see: http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-TheArtifactsOfBFuller,vol1.htm= http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-TheArtifactsOfBFuller,vol2.htm= http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-TheArtifactsOfBFuller,vol3.htm= http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-TheArtifactsOfBFuller,vol4.htm= -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: blair wolfram=20 To: Joe S Moore=20 Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 12:40 PM Subject: Re: Dome Inc. Info Request Joe, the poster at the top of your poster page is outstanding. I = recently saw it online but was unable to print it. You probably linked = the group to it when the DomeHome list was talking about the largest = dome. If this is available to purchase from the poster company, I'd do = it. When I finally discovered Abebooks about three or four years ago, I = quickly filled out my Bucky book list, except for the 3 volume Artifacts = of Buckminster Fuller. Now I'm trying to find some of the periodicals = like the old Fortune, Life, Architecture and Popular Mechanics issues. Blair Joe S Moore wrote: Blair, Sorry, but I don't have any duplicates right now, and the few I have = had over the years I gave to people who I thought would appreciate them. However, there's quite a lot of Bucky-related stuff available on = Ebay. Try putting the words buckminster or geodesic into their search = engine: http://pages.ebay.com/search/items/search_adv.html Also, the used-book websites have a ton of Bucky-related materials. = For instance, take a look at Abebooks: http://www.abebooks.com/ or Alibris http://www.alibris.com/ Thanks for the invite. Don't know if I'll ever be out your way, but = one never knows--- BTW, here's my list of posters http://buckminster.info/Index/Posters.htm (Didn't know about the Expo'67 one) -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: blair wolfram=20 To: Joe S Moore=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Dome Inc. Info Request Hello Joe; Thank you for the invitation. I intend to accept your offer, = someday. As well, I would like to be your host if ever you travel to = Minneapolis. I currently have 9 dome buildings on my property, plus = numerous models, prototypes and displays. I'm ready to begin negotiating = a land deal for a model dome home here in the southern tundra. Recently I built a dome office and I am closing my sales office in = St. Paul. It was a square leased building. I have a beautiful 10 acre = Mississippi river front property with horse pasture where I built these = domes. Please use this address for any correspondence: Blair F. Wolfram Dome, Inc. 11480 141st Ave. N. Minneapolis, MN 55327 I'm sure I would slobber in envy over your collection. Do you have = any duplicate material that you would sell? I lost a poster of the 1967 = Worlds Fair Dome about 6 years ago and I'm regretting it. Blair ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:39:48 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: dancing helix model In-Reply-To: <20030509223728.10939.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi dick and quincy, I'm sorry i lost the refernce to this video. Would one of you please send me a refernce so i can retrieve it? I'd like to watch it. Thanks pancho El 10/5/03 12:37 am, "Dick Fischbeck" escribi=F3: > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: >> it looks like that stainless-steel srapping that's used >> to hold boxes on pallets etc.; >=20 > It's plain old rubber, in this case. >=20 >> how they applied the cross-elements'd be interesting. >=20 > Glue? Why not? >=20 >> that was really fascinating. >=20 > It is even way better in person. >=20 >> I'd never used >> quicktime, before, and >> when I hit Ctrl-back-arrow to go back to the list, >> it reversed the video. I guess, because of the limits of >> the CPU, >> it slowed-down & speeded-up all the way backwards, but >> it was otherwise hard to dystinguish from fprwards. >=20 > It's a reflecting wave. It has a left twist and a right >=20 >=20 > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:39:49 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: maine tech show In-Reply-To: <20030509225053.34185.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Mr Quincy quincy quincy please relax, take your medicine, if necessary, relax. Mr fischbeck, please consider the source of your irritations... Sorry but sometimes you guys are better than laughaday. Someone please send me that video ref so i can get into the loop on this tirade. NB Q: =BFis q3 just one person? El 10/5/03 12:50 am, "Dick Fischbeck" escribi=F3: > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: >> Randomania, or >> Every Thing I Know, I learned BEFORE Kindergarten; >> I was raised in a shanty-town! >=20 > You are not naive. Try it, if you remember it. >=20 >> too bad, you're not going to have a webcam with feedback, >> so that we can make fun of you! >=20 > Who is we? I think you are alone in this. >=20 > I'll take a picture. How's that? >=20 > Victor Acevedo videotaped Tivoli. Why don't you watch that? >=20 > If you are interested, give me your mailing address and > I'll send you a model. >=20 > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 05:50:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dancing helix model In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Frank The archives of this list are at: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html The dancing helix is at: http://www.caduces.com/images/clips/movie05compressed.mov Dick --- Frank wrote: > Hi dick and quincy, > > I'm sorry i lost the refernce to this video. Would one > of you please send > me a refernce so i can retrieve it? I'd like to watch > it. > > > Thanks pancho > > El 10/5/03 12:37 am, "Dick Fischbeck" > escribió: > > > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > >> it looks like that stainless-steel srapping that's > used > >> to hold boxes on pallets etc.; > > > > It's plain old rubber, in this case. > > > >> how they applied the cross-elements'd be interesting. > > > > Glue? Why not? > > > >> that was really fascinating. > > > > It is even way better in person. > > > >> I'd never used > >> quicktime, before, and > >> when I hit Ctrl-back-arrow to go back to the list, > >> it reversed the video. I guess, because of the limits > of > >> the CPU, > >> it slowed-down & speeded-up all the way backwards, but > >> it was otherwise hard to dystinguish from fprwards. > > > > It's a reflecting wave. It has a left twist and a right > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:23:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: chinatrade Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is one heck of a report. I think Bucky would be thrilled by it. The planet is integrating in a big way. Semi-conductors and soybeans are two prime ingredients, it seems. http://www.mac.doc.gov/China/Docs/chinatrade.pdf Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 07:54:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > as no one said any thing, the first time that I told > of it, > you are not "one of the two kinds of people" who > seem to populate this list; > however, > I seriously doubt your claim about ye olde Chinese; > like, > did you just make that "up?" Q. I do not just making things up, it was broth to my attention by Guy Inchbald as I have mentioned to you. If it is true or not I can not say, but that is the true source of that information. >if no-one followed it, the first time, I'll > repeat it: > the 6 shapes are exactly the same as the 48, but > doubled in their dimensions. this also means that > the whole, put together, is "polarized" along one > axis (and > it can be so-built along 3 different axes .-) > > the similar division of the tetrahedron is *not* > what fuller did, since > his 24 "LCDs" are obviously not just four ... but > it's the exact, same shape. No, they are not the exact same shape as the double corners. > however, Bucky *did* find a "single, measly > brick," > which is called "the mite;" But "mite" is a minimal irregular tet. it incorporates many irregular shapes, where I'm talking of one particular shape and that is the big difference. naturally, > I call it the RD-module, since it's the quadrirect. > tetrah. > that the rhobical dodecah. can be subdivided into. > same game: > what's the least number of them to be chopped?... > maybe, > just "the R-module," but I probably have a better > name for it, > now, that I think of it, again. > > if you were really just making such a big deal > out of dissecting the octahedron, fine; it's true > that > that chunk is the smallest, without rights & lefts, > I guess. Look, no one is making a big deal but it was me and no one else to claim that the 1/8 octa. is the smallest of all irregulars if the shorthest edge of any shape is one unit in length. > thus quoth: > I think none of us made that discovery, since that > shape has a ancient origin and use in the volume > unit > in China. > --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) > ECONOMIE?... > La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols > des Grises de Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" > http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, > below): > 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 > 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE > 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU > 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection > with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 08:25:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: graphics Comments: To: synergeo Comments: cc: sphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Povray images. See especially net, beads and frame. http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~nj2t-hg/ilpove.htm Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 09:01:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- David Lane wrote: > Just wondering: > Does this help me build a better dome? > > David This topic has nothing to do with dome math any more, it is about the smallest of shapes building blocks where it appears that the 1/8 octhed. is the shape with the least surface area compared to all irregular tets. If the shorthest edge of any irreg.tet. is of one unit length, than the 1/8 oct. is the most minimal as the smallest brick in the wall. frank > On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 02:30 PM, Quincy Quincy > Quincy wrote: > > > as no one said any thing, the first time that I > told of it, > > you are not "one of the two kinds of people" who > seem to populate this > > list; > > however, > > I seriously doubt your claim about ye olde > Chinese; like, > > did you just make that "up?" > > if no-one followed it, the first time, I'll > repeat it: > > the 6 shapes are exactly the same as the 48, but > > doubled in their dimensions. this also means that > > the whole, put together, is "polarized" along one > axis (and > > it can be so-built along 3 different axes .-) > > > > the similar division of the tetrahedron is *not* > what fuller did, since > > his 24 "LCDs" are obviously not just four ... but > > it's the exact, same shape. > > however, Bucky *did* find a "single, measly > brick," > > which is called "the mite;" naturally, > > I call it the RD-module, since it's the > quadrirect. tetrah. > > that the rhobical dodecah. can be subdivided into. > same game: > > what's the least number of them to be chopped?... > maybe, > > just "the R-module," but I probably have a better > name for it, > > now, that I think of it, again. > > > > if you were really just making such a big deal > > out of dissecting the octahedron, fine; it's true > that > > that chunk is the smallest, without rights & > lefts, I guess. > > > > thus quoth: > > I think none of us made that discovery, since that > > shape has a ancient origin and use in the volume > unit > > in China. > > > > --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) > ECONOMIE?... > > La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols > > des Grises de Kyoto: > > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" > http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content > partiale, below): > > 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 > > 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE > > 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU > > 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection > with MSN 8. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 13:28:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030511160103.32541.qmail@web80509.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- frank zubek wrote: > This topic has nothing to do with dome math any more, > it is about the smallest of shapes building blocks > where it appears that the 1/8 octhed. is the shape > with the least surface area compared to all irregular > tets. If the shorthest edge of any irreg.tet. is of > one unit length, than the 1/8 oct. is the most minimal > as the smallest brick in the wall. Frank What do you mean, brick? Lots of irregular tets, where their shortest edge is 1, have less surface area than the octane. What are your octanes required to do? Fill space in some particular way? Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 13:34:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: spherical stuctural element Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone know of a dome built out of spherical triangles, where the spherical triangle is the structural element? Pictures? Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 13:53:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030511202830.19706.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > --- frank zubek wrote: > > > This topic has nothing to do with dome math any > more, > > it is about the smallest of shapes building blocks > > where it appears that the 1/8 octhed. is the shape > > with the least surface area compared to all > irregular > > tets. If the shorthest edge of any irreg.tet. is > of > > one unit length, than the 1/8 oct. is the most > minimal > > as the smallest brick in the wall. > > Frank > > What do you mean, brick? Just a building block which can connect to other blocks to form a structure with out gaps. The possible choise of a building block is infinite. > Lots of irregular tets, where their shortest edge is > 1, > have less surface area than the octane. Well if you have one whos shorthes edge is 1 and it can be a component of a contenious structure than just show me which one is it, maybee I'm all wrong. What are > your > octanes required to do? Fill space in some > particular way? No, any way you like just to build a contenious structure like a wall with no gaps where no one brick can have a any edge less than 1 unit. I just chosed 1/8 oct. as the limit of minima. So if you have a shape which is even smaller it would be a big disapointment on my part. frank > Dick > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 14:16:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: spherical stuctural element In-Reply-To: <20030511203414.77312.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Does anyone know of a dome built out of spherical > triangles, where the spherical triangle is the > structural > element? Pictures? > > Dick > Relaux triangle could be such element. frank > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 14:32:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030511202830.19706.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com It is clear that from all shapes all irregular tets. derived from a cube that the 1/8 oct.is the most minimal. Since my dissections contains all irregulars derived from a cube there is a prove that the 1/8 oct. is the smallest one in that cube and no smaller do exist in the realm of a cube. Now you are free to incorporate any irregular A-B or any irreg.tet. and to standardize the bricks just make sure that all shapes you chosen do not have any edge less than 1 unit length and make sure that these bricks fit for a contenious structure without gaps. I think that my idea is most likely just misinterpreted than wrong. frank __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:39:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: spherical stuctural element Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, The La Geode Theater at the City of Science & Industry in Paris, France, is made out of spherical triangles. http://www.parisdigest.com/cinema/lageode-zoom.htm http://www.oasinweb.com/europa/parigi%2007.jpg http://www.iespana.es/nicog/Francia/geode1.htm http://www.ingisworld.de/galerie/paris/par37.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 1:34 PM Subject: spherical stuctural element > Does anyone know of a dome built out of spherical > triangles, where the spherical triangle is the structural > element? Pictures? > > Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 07:07:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030511205349.75480.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- frank zubek wrote: > > What do you mean, brick? > > Just a building block which can connect to other > blocks to form a structure with out gaps. The possible > choise of a building block is infinite. You require the blocks to be rectangular. But a wall can be built with just irregular tets, right? And without a single right angle. > > Lots of irregular tets, where their shortest edge is > > 1, > > have less surface area than the octane. > > Well if you have one whos shorthes edge is 1 and it > can be a component of a contenious structure than just > show me which one is it, maybee I'm all wrong. I depends on whether or not the blocks must be cubical. > What are > > your > > octanes required to do? Fill space in some > > particular way? > > No, any way you like just to build a contenious > structure like a wall with no gaps where no one brick > can have a any edge less than 1 unit. Can the tetrahedral bricks be all different volumes? > I just chosed 1/8 oct. as the limit of minima. So if > you have a shape which is even smaller it would be a > big disapointment on my part. I still don't understand why you are only considering cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:50:43 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed an eitghth of an octahedron is a tetrahedron that's a corner of a qyoob. at least, it's easy to show the spatial analog of the pythagorean th., where the second-powers of the 3 right-angled trigona is the same as the 2nd-power of the largest face, which is equilateral. well, it's "elementary," if you know how to compute the areas of them -- and you have to use the correct lengths (and Zube didn't do that, yet .-) thus quoth: I still don't understand why you are only considering cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:56:51 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: spherical stuctural element Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I forgot the spelling of that, two, but it is definitely not useful for "tiling the plain," if it's the "constant diameter" object that is used in the Wankel engine e.g. in any case, the subject is the next-most beaten-to-death problem in _S_, or an elementary book of Coxeter e.g.... or, just grab any book at random! pictures, somewhere in here: http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html thus quoth: >triangles, where the spherical triangle is the >structural >element? Pictures? >Relaux triangle could be such element. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 23:04:50 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed no-one is privy to your especial definition, that makes the eighth-octahedron into some Magic Brick; perhaps it will dysappear, when you get hte lengths of the edges, correctly; not too hard, as there's only two! NB: the division of the tetrahedron into 4 identical "quadrirectangular" tetrahedra, gives exactly the same shape as Bucky's division into "A-quanta modules," but only an eighth as many. it's not the division from the center to a face. thus quoth: one else to claim that the 1/8 octa. is the smallest of all irregulars if the shorthest edge of any shape is one unit in length. --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:38:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Stability in Geodesic Domes Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone familiar with Osher Doctorow? Is he interested in synergetic geometry? Does he understand Bucky? http://mathforum.org/epigone/geometry-research/relclouzhor Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:49:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: spherical stuctural element In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Other than Joe's(thanks) single example, show me more pictures of domes made out of spherical-triangle modules, please. Is it done, or is it just beaten to death? Are you saying it doesn't work? Or is it too obvious for you to waste your time on? Quincy, the answer man. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I forgot the spelling of that, two, but > it is definitely not useful for "tiling the plain," if > it's the "constant diameter" object that is used > in the Wankel engine e.g. > in any case, > the subject is the next-most beaten-to-death problem > in _S_, or an elementary book of Coxeter e.g.... or, > just grab any book at random! > > pictures, somewhere in here: > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > thus quoth: > >triangles, where the spherical triangle is the > >structural > >element? Pictures? > > >Relaux triangle could be such element. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:54:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii An eighth of a cube is 2 tets, the way I see it. Is that what you are saying? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > an eitghth of an octahedron is a tetrahedron > that's a corner of a qyoob. at least, > it's easy to show the spatial analog of the pythagorean > th., > where the second-powers of the 3 right-angled trigona is > the same > as the 2nd-power of the largest face, which is > equilateral. well, > it's "elementary," if you know how to compute the areas > of them -- and > you have to use the correct lengths (and > Zube didn't do that, yet .-) > > thus quoth: > I still don't understand why you are only considering > cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:08:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030512140715.53741.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > --- frank zubek wrote: > > > > What do you mean, brick? > > > > Just a building block which can connect to other > > blocks to form a structure with out gaps. The > possible > > choise of a building block is infinite. > > You require the blocks to be rectangular. But a wall > can be > built with just irregular tets, right? And without a > single > right angle. The single individual blocks can be of any shape you chouse, so the wall can be in a shape of a prism, squved, or tilted, rectangular,or cubical bricks can be considered if the individual blocks tie together.Hexagonal,parraleploidal or rhombical it does not matter as long it is a contenious structure with smuth surface. 1/2 octahedron plus a reg.tet. (octet truss) like is also fine eventhough the wall edges are sq.root of 2 hovewer the smallest brick in a octet truss is a octane a 1/8 octa. so it qulifies also. As a matter of fact octet truss is one of few other solutions. So shapes can be irregular or regular tets. 90 deg.or not it is up to you. I just looking for one measly brick in such construction one which is less than a 1/8 0cta. > > > Lots of irregular tets, where their shortest > edge is > > > 1, > > > have less surface area than the octane. > > > > Well if you have one whos shorthes edge is 1 and > it > > can be a component of a contenious structure than > just > > show me which one is it, maybee I'm all wrong. > > I depends on whether or not the blocks must be > cubical. No, they can be anything. > > What are > > > your > > > octanes required to do? Fill space in some > > > particular way? > > > > No, any way you like just to build a contenious > > structure like a wall with no gaps where no one > brick > > can have a any edge less than 1 unit. > > Can the tetrahedral bricks be all different volumes? Yes, they can. Only restriction or limit is that the shorthest edge can *not* be less than one unit in length. > > I just chosed 1/8 oct. as the limit of minima. So > if > > you have a shape which is even smaller it would be > a > > big disapointment on my part. > > I still don't understand why you are only > considering > cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. Any block you chouse is fine. frank > Dick > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:11:00 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, what are you guys trying to do, build the world's smallest wall? :o) Blair Dick Fischbeck wrote: >--- frank zubek wrote: > > > >>>What do you mean, brick? >>> >>> >>Just a building block which can connect to other >>blocks to form a structure with out gaps. The possible >>choise of a building block is infinite. >> >> > >You require the blocks to be rectangular. But a wall can be >built with just irregular tets, right? And without a single >right angle. > > > >>>Lots of irregular tets, where their shortest edge is >>>1, >>>have less surface area than the octane. >>> >>> >>Well if you have one whos shorthes edge is 1 and it >>can be a component of a contenious structure than just >>show me which one is it, maybee I'm all wrong. >> >> > >I depends on whether or not the blocks must be cubical. > > > > >>What are >> >> >>>your >>>octanes required to do? Fill space in some >>>particular way? >>> >>> >>No, any way you like just to build a contenious >>structure like a wall with no gaps where no one brick >>can have a any edge less than 1 unit. >> >> > >Can the tetrahedral bricks be all different volumes? > > > >>I just chosed 1/8 oct. as the limit of minima. So if >>you have a shape which is even smaller it would be a >>big disapointment on my part. >> >> > >I still don't understand why you are only considering >cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. > >Dick > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:16:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030513010854.39479.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Okay, we have a game. This is getting interesting! This is going to be great. I understand you finally. Dick --- frank zubek wrote: > --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > --- frank zubek wrote: > > > > > > What do you mean, brick? > > > > > > Just a building block which can connect to other > > > blocks to form a structure with out gaps. The > > possible > > > choise of a building block is infinite. > > > > You require the blocks to be rectangular. But a wall > > can be > > built with just irregular tets, right? And without a > > single > > right angle. > > The single individual blocks can be of any shape you > chouse, so the wall can be in a shape of a prism, > squved, or tilted, rectangular,or cubical bricks can > be considered if the individual blocks tie > together.Hexagonal,parraleploidal or rhombical it does > not matter as long it is a contenious structure with > smuth surface. 1/2 octahedron plus a reg.tet. (octet > truss) like is also fine eventhough the wall edges are > sq.root of 2 hovewer the smallest brick in a octet > truss is a octane a 1/8 octa. so it qulifies also. As > a matter of fact octet truss is one of few other > solutions. So shapes can be irregular or regular tets. > 90 deg.or not it is up to you. I just looking for one > measly brick in such construction one which is less > than a 1/8 0cta. > > > > > > > Lots of irregular tets, where their shortest > > edge is > > > > 1, > > > > have less surface area than the octane. > > > > > > Well if you have one whos shorthes edge is 1 and > > it > > > can be a component of a contenious structure than > > just > > > show me which one is it, maybee I'm all wrong. > > > > I depends on whether or not the blocks must be > > cubical. > > No, they can be anything. > > > > What are > > > > your > > > > octanes required to do? Fill space in some > > > > particular way? > > > > > > No, any way you like just to build a contenious > > > structure like a wall with no gaps where no one > > brick > > > can have a any edge less than 1 unit. > > > > Can the tetrahedral bricks be all different volumes? > > Yes, they can. Only restriction or limit is that the > shorthest edge can *not* be less than one unit in > length. > > > > > I just chosed 1/8 oct. as the limit of minima. So > > if > > > you have a shape which is even smaller it would be > > a > > > big disapointment on my part. > > > > I still don't understand why you are only > > considering > > cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. > > Any block you chouse is fine. > > frank > > Dick > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > http://search.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:23:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <3EC04624.7030608@domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Blair The thickness of the wall can be anything, a meter or a mile. The rule is, no edge is less than 1. The question is, which tet has the greatest surface to volume ratio in this wall of tets. Or, said another way, in building a wall out of tets, how far do you have to deviate from a regular tet to get the job done. Dick --- blair wolfram wrote: > So, what are you guys trying to do, build the world's > smallest wall? :o) > > Blair __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:34:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > an eitghth of an octahedron is a tetrahedron > that's a corner of a qyoob. at least, > it's easy to show the spatial analog of the > pythagorean th., > where the second-powers of the 3 right-angled > trigona is the same > as the 2nd-power of the largest face, which is > equilateral. well, > it's "elementary," if you know how to compute the > areas of them -- and > you have to use the correct lengths (and > Zube didn't do that, yet .-) Yes I have I would not write about it eventhough I can be wrong but since I know all the surface areas of all shapes in my set and since my set contains all shapes which can be derived from the cube based on the dimension of the cube I know that 1/8 oct. is the smallest one. frank > thus quoth: > I still don't understand why you are only > considering > cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 > months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:39:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: wooden dome home on HGTV Comments: To: highmont@citlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teri, I noticed that you mentioned Arizona time. I live in Tucson. Are you anywhere near? FYI, here's my list of domes in Arizona: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-Arizona.htm For a list of people, articles, Fuller visits, miscellaneous items, etc, for Arizona, go to the bottom of my home page and do a search for az . You should get about 96 hits. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info (Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute) ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:55 PM Subject: wooden dome home on HGTV > From: "Teri L. Hiatt" > Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:13:09 -0700 > > Hi, > I'm new to the list. I was watching Extreme Homes tonight > on HGTV and saw that they are showing a wooden dome home next > sunday at 7 pm Arizona time. > Teri ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:45:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > no-one is privy to your especial definition, > that makes the eighth-octahedron into some Magic > Brick; > perhaps it will dysappear, > when you get hte lengths of the edges, correctly; > not too hard, as there's only two! I got them correct, I chose the shorhest edge to be the meassuring stick for all other bricks. You can build a house and say that the smallest brick can not be less than 1 unit of the shorthest edge. If you do that than you see that the 1/8 oct. is the limit of minima. > NB: the division of the tetrahedron into 4 identical > "quadrirectangular" > tetrahedra, > gives exactly the same shape as Bucky's division > into "A-quanta modules," > but only an eighth as many. it's not the division > from the center to a face. So, what I can do all what Q- mods. can and way more and now put your Q mod. shorthest edge at 1 unit length and than talk. Is the Q. mod. going to have larger or smaller surface. By this method you can put all shapes you wish and do some elementary calculation and we see what is less or more. frank > thus quoth: > one else to claim that the 1/8 octa. is the smallest > of all irregulars if the shorthest edge of any shape > is one unit in length. > > --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) > ECONOMIE?... > La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols > des Grises de Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" > http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, > below): > 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 > 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE > 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU > 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:53:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030513005415.17381.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > An eighth of a cube is 2 tets, the way I see it. Is > that > what you are saying? Dick, a 1/8 of a cube is a cube since it takes 8 cubes to build a larger two freq.cube. A irreg.tet. is 1/6 of a cube. 2 irreg.tets. = one reg.tet. Q. is correct in that the 1/8 oct. is a corner of a cube. frank > --- Quincy Quincy Quincy > wrote: > > an eitghth of an octahedron is a tetrahedron > > that's a corner of a qyoob. at least, > > it's easy to show the spatial analog of the > pythagorean > > th., > > where the second-powers of the 3 right-angled > trigona is > > the same > > as the 2nd-power of the largest face, which is > > equilateral. well, > > it's "elementary," if you know how to compute the > areas > > of them -- and > > you have to use the correct lengths (and > > Zube didn't do that, yet .-) > > > > thus quoth: > > I still don't understand why you are only > considering > > cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:05:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <3EC04624.7030608@domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- blair wolfram wrote: > So, what are you guys trying to do, build the > world's smallest wall? :o) > > Blair No not at all, I just try to say that if you put a standarize edge lenght where no single brick can have any edge less than one unit in length, than it appears that the smallest brick in the wall or bridge or house or any structure is going to be a 1/8 octah. This brick than is exactly .5 in volume if reg.tet. is 1. So .5 volume must be the limit of minima where no brick exists, which is smaller than that. Octet truss than is also a correct solution eventhough, the edge length vissible in octet truss is of sq.root of two, but the smallest block in that structure is a 1/8 oct. where four of them are 1/2 octahedron plus a reg.tet.= octet truss. frank > > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > >--- frank zubek wrote: > > > > > > > >>>What do you mean, brick? > >>> > >>> > >>Just a building block which can connect to other > >>blocks to form a structure with out gaps. The > possible > >>choise of a building block is infinite. > >> > >> > > > >You require the blocks to be rectangular. But a > wall can be > >built with just irregular tets, right? And without > a single > >right angle. > > > > > > > >>>Lots of irregular tets, where their shortest edge > is > >>>1, > >>>have less surface area than the octane. > >>> > >>> > >>Well if you have one whos shorthes edge is 1 and > it > >>can be a component of a contenious structure than > just > >>show me which one is it, maybee I'm all wrong. > >> > >> > > > >I depends on whether or not the blocks must be > cubical. > > > > > > > > > >>What are > >> > >> > >>>your > >>>octanes required to do? Fill space in some > >>>particular way? > >>> > >>> > >>No, any way you like just to build a contenious > >>structure like a wall with no gaps where no one > brick > >>can have a any edge less than 1 unit. > >> > >> > > > >Can the tetrahedral bricks be all different > volumes? > > > > > > > >>I just chosed 1/8 oct. as the limit of minima. So > if > >>you have a shape which is even smaller it would be > a > >>big disapointment on my part. > >> > >> > > > >I still don't understand why you are only > considering > >cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. > > > >Dick > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > >http://search.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:18:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030513011627.71452.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Okay, we have a game. This is getting interesting! > > This is going to be great. I understand you finally. > > Dick Well, thanks I hope it is great because it would prove that there is indeed a shape which is absolutely the smallest of all shapes. This shape is only .5 in volume compared to a reg.tet. Because we are dealing with infinite # of shapes I can be proven wrong, but it will not result in a suaccide. That is the main reason I try to get some other opinions, but I been trying and trying but can not come up with anything smaller. Simply just put your shapes any shape whose shorthest edge is identical to the shorthest edge of a octane and you will see the same result I do. frank > --- frank zubek wrote: > > --- Dick Fischbeck > wrote: > > > --- frank zubek wrote: > > > > > > > > What do you mean, brick? > > > > > > > > Just a building block which can connect to > other > > > > blocks to form a structure with out gaps. The > > > possible > > > > choise of a building block is infinite. > > > > > > You require the blocks to be rectangular. But a > wall > > > can be > > > built with just irregular tets, right? And > without a > > > single > > > right angle. > > > > The single individual blocks can be of any shape > you > > chouse, so the wall can be in a shape of a prism, > > squved, or tilted, rectangular,or cubical bricks > can > > be considered if the individual blocks tie > > together.Hexagonal,parraleploidal or rhombical it > does > > not matter as long it is a contenious structure > with > > smuth surface. 1/2 octahedron plus a reg.tet. > (octet > > truss) like is also fine eventhough the wall edges > are > > sq.root of 2 hovewer the smallest brick in a octet > > truss is a octane a 1/8 octa. so it qulifies also. > As > > a matter of fact octet truss is one of few other > > solutions. So shapes can be irregular or regular > tets. > > 90 deg.or not it is up to you. I just looking for > one > > measly brick in such construction one which is > less > > than a 1/8 0cta. > > > > > > > > > > > Lots of irregular tets, where their shortest > > > edge is > > > > > 1, > > > > > have less surface area than the octane. > > > > > > > > Well if you have one whos shorthes edge is 1 > and > > > it > > > > can be a component of a contenious structure > than > > > just > > > > show me which one is it, maybee I'm all wrong. > > > > > > I depends on whether or not the blocks must be > > > cubical. > > > > No, they can be anything. > > > > > > What are > > > > > your > > > > > octanes required to do? Fill space in some > > > > > particular way? > > > > > > > > No, any way you like just to build a > contenious > > > > structure like a wall with no gaps where no > one > > > brick > > > > can have a any edge less than 1 unit. > > > > > > Can the tetrahedral bricks be all different > volumes? > > > > Yes, they can. Only restriction or limit is that > the > > shorthest edge can *not* be less than one unit in > > length. > > > > > > > > I just chosed 1/8 oct. as the limit of minima. > So > > > if > > > > you have a shape which is even smaller it > would be > > > a > > > > big disapointment on my part. > > > > > > I still don't understand why you are only > > > considering > > > cubical blocks, if I read you correctly. > > > > Any block you chouse is fine. > > > > frank > > > Dick > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > http://search.yahoo.com > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > http://search.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:19:12 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: spherical stuctural element Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well,it wasn't in the Plates in a simple way, since Bucky chose to include "secondary GCs" in the diagrams of the GC families. anyway, they are just the GCs that are associated with the platonic shapes, which reallyamountsto just 3 sets, because of the duals. so, the 120 "LCDs"of the icosah./dodecah. are the very smalle stones. I know: Duh!... and the pictures are else where in _S_. thus quoth: pictures of domes made out of spherical-triangle modules, --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:21:49 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed no;that's not even wrong!... maybe, you really should try to find a remedial English class-- wether for First or Next language! thusquoth: An eighth of a cube is 2 tets, the way I see it. Is that what you are saying? --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:32:53 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed mister Zubek: what is the longest edge of your octant of an octahedron ... and the shortest one? I know that Dickstein was fibbing,when he said that he really understood, because you still haven'tgot the English language to convey such. your ideapf "normalizing" isfloating around with all sorts of things that don't "go there," in the simple terms of dissections-cum-wall-buildings note to the uninitiated: you can find more of these "21 questions" type of attacks on geometry under the heading of "geodesic," because these folks haven't read _S_, Bucky's high-falutin' Magnum Opus. or, they did, and fell-pray toBucky's nonconstructive method ... go ahead & make my day, you Bucky Wtches! --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:33:49 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030513012300.23694.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Blair > > The thickness of the wall can be anything, a meter > or a > mile. The rule is, no edge is less than 1. The > question is, > which tet has the greatest surface to volume ratio > in this > wall of tets. You are partially correct as far the size of the wall, but I'm not looking for officiency or structural integrity strickly just to determine which brick is the smallest one. > Or, said another way, in building a wall out of > tets, how > far do you have to deviate from a regular tet to get > the > job done. I think you got it, since reg. tet. is all build by same dimensions and octane has two different dimensions all other irregulars the more you deviate from the regularity to irregularity the larger the surface of such shape is going to be. So by that definition the octane is the only candidate for the minimal shape. frank > Dick > > > --- blair wolfram > wrote: > > So, what are you guys trying to do, build the > world's > > smallest wall? :o) > > > > Blair > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:37:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Bucky Map in Movie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the opening scene of the movie "Chain Reaction" (1996) a large = version of the cloudless satellite pics Fuller projection map = (http://www.buckminster.info/Pics/Icos-Map-SatelliteHuge.jpg ) is on the = wall behind the speaker. A quick glimpse of it can be seen about 20 seconds into this movie = trailer: http://us.imdb.com/Trailers?0115857&screenplay&E10367&5&3 -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:41:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed we have a seriously funny lack of communication, herein, alas. at one moment, you actually suggested that your brick is the smallest one with its smallest edge being "one," *and* the largest ratio of volume to surface. now, seeing as the octant of the octahedron does *not* tile space, what *are* its magical properties? I mean, it's plain that you comprehend almost nothing of what I type -- get a translator, or I'll have to take Magyar as a Next Language!!... however, as a momentary helpmeet, just REPHRASE MY QUESTION IN YOUR OWN WORDS -- type it out so that we can see it -- and *then* try to answer it. thus quoth: build a house and say that the smallest brick can not be less than 1 unit of the shorthest edge. If you do that than you see that the 1/8 oct. is the limit of --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:44:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed they are equal only in volume; those two quadrirect.tetrah. don't go-together to make the same*shape* as a reg.tetrah. thus quoth: to build a larger two freq.cube. A irreg.tet. is 1/6 of a cube. 2 irreg.tets. = one reg.tet. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:44:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > no;that's not even wrong!... maybe, > you really should try to find a remedial English > class-- > wether for First or Next language! That is Dick's response not mine, or you correcting his spelling, but when my 13 year old son reeds your messages, it is obvious that your spelling is the worst on the list. It can't be checked even by the dictionary because most of the time one can not gather what a hell you are saying. frank > thusquoth: > An eighth of a cube is 2 tets, the way I see it. Is > that > what you are saying? > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:55:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > mister Zubek: > what is the longest edge of your octant of an > octahedron ... and > the shortest one? The longest is the base of a equilateral tri. sq.root. of two and the shorthest is the edge of the right deg.tri. as the three faces of a octane. That is the shorthest edge I'm considering. > I know that Dickstein was fibbing,when he said that > he really understood, > because you still haven'tgot the English language to > convey such. I do speak officiently enough and understand if someone responds, as a matter of fact even if I would speak 5o% less it would be still officient. No one has the problem to understand me but mosat of as do have problem to understand you. Hopefully Dick understand and sometimes it appears you do to,because you have agreed on some of the stuff, but your mood is unpredictable so who knows what's next from you. frank > your ideapf "normalizing" isfloating around > with all sorts of things that don't "go there," > in the simple terms of > dissections-cum-wall-buildings > > note to the uninitiated: > you can find more of these "21 questions" type of > attacks > on geometry under the heading of "geodesic," because > these folks haven't read _S_, Bucky's high-falutin' > Magnum Opus. or, > they did, and fell-pray toBucky's nonconstructive > method ... > go ahead & make my day, you Bucky Wtches! > > --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) > ECONOMIE?... > La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols > des Grises de Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" > http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, > below): > 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:57:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed excusez-moi, mais, votre 13-y.o. fais un attack sur mon usage de les mots d'anglais?... quelle humourous! has he had his bar-mitzvah,two? --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:06:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OK,so, the unit-edge is not htat of the facet of the octahedron, so,you didn't make that mistake, as I'dthought. so,now, you're saying that this is the shape that fills space, and that has the least (or the greatest?) surface-to-area? but, it does not fill space,by itself! incidentally, here is how to show that second-powering has nothing to do with the tetragon (skware)in particular, the "lunes" proof of the Pythag.Th.: inscribe a right trigon on the diameter of a circle; build semi-circles on the legs of the trigon, and show how they relate to the semicircle on the diameter, viz the sums of areas. thus quoth: The longest is the base of a equilateral tri. sq.root. of two and the shorthest is the edge of the right deg.tri. as the three faces of a octane. That is the shorthest edge I'm considering. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:09:40 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > we have a seriously funny lack of communication, > herein, alas. > > at one moment, > you actually suggested that your brick is the > smallest one > with its smallest edge being "one," *and* the > largest ratio > of volume to surface. I'm not looking for a efficiency nor structural integrity just size plain and simple eventhough efficiency and structural integrity is still present where the octet truss is also one of the correct solutions. now, > seeing as the octant of the octahedron does *not* > tile space, > what *are* its magical properties? I know that but I only looking for only one measly brick. I do not have to build the wall by only identical bricks I just saying that the octane under that condition is going to be the smallest one. No magical properties. Just compare a Q mod. having it's shorthest edge of 1 unit and lets see. > I mean, it's plain that you comprehend almost > nothing > of what I type -- get a translator, I think most of us do need a translator reading your jiberish which does not sounds like any language most of as know. or I'll have to > take Magyar > as a Next Language!!... however, > as a momentary helpmeet, > just REPHRASE MY QUESTION IN YOUR OWN WORDS What is your question? > -- type it out so that we can see it -- and > *then* try to answer it. > > thus quoth: > build a house and say that the smallest brick can > not > be less than 1 unit of the shorthest edge. If you do > that than you see that the 1/8 oct. is the limit of > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 > months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:15:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > they are equal only in volume; > those two quadrirect.tetrah. don't go-together > to make the same*shape* as a reg.tetrah. Yes you are correct, that's why I try to explain to Dick that it is 1/6 of a cube and not 1/8. > thus quoth: > to build a larger two freq.cube. A irreg.tet. is 1/6 > of a cube. 2 irreg.tets. = one reg.tet. I know they are only same volumetricaly and not identical in appearance. frank > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:19:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > excusez-moi, mais, > votre 13-y.o. fais un attack sur mon usage de les > mots d'anglais?... > quelle humourous! > has he had his bar-mitzvah,two? Yes, you do not even need to sign it Q. it is your English or jiberish not mine. frank > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:32:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed when the qyoob-o-savant says what it is, and *any* one comprehends "the criterium of the brick," please, post a notice of the fact. I just don't get it. til then, it is just "Zubek's Doob!" thus quoth: I know that but I only looking for only one measly brick. I do not have to build the wall by only identical bricks I just saying that the octane under that condition is going to be the smallest one. No magical properties. Just compare a Q mod. having it's shorthest edge of 1 unit and lets see. http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:36:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > OK,so, the unit-edge is not htat of the facet > of the octahedron, so,you didn't make that mistake, > as I'dthought. so,now, > you're saying that this is the shape > that fills space, and that has the least (or the > greatest?) surface-to-area? > but, it does not fill space,by itself! I know it does not fill space by it's self that's why I saying that I just looking for one single shape in a structure just one if there is more in your structure that's fine but one is enough to prove me wrong. > incidentally, > here is how to show that second-powering has nothing > to do with the tetragon (skware)in particular, > the "lunes" proof of the Pythag.Th.: It does not have to be a tetragon it can be anything you like, the choise is infinite or rather endless. > inscribe a right trigon on the diameter of a circle; > build semi-circles on the legs of the trigon, and > show how they relate to the semicircle on the > diameter, > viz the sums of areas. This is very good than the trigon of identical legs at 90 deg. is the largest trigon under 180 deg.arc. So now any trigon like a skaline tri. 90 deg. whose shortest leg is just somewhat longer as the leg of the 90 deg.isoscalene tri. has to have more area. So under this stipulation it is clear that the surface of a right deg.tri. as the three faces of a octane is going to be the smallest triangle. frank > thus quoth: > The longest is the base of a equilateral tri. > sq.root. > of two and the shorthest is the edge of the right > deg.tri. as the three faces of a octane. That is the > shorthest edge I'm considering. > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:51:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > when the qyoob-o-savant says what it is, and > *any* one comprehends "the criterium of the brick," > please, post a notice of the fact. I just don't get > it. > > til then, > it is just "Zubek's Doob!" Why dont you get your Q-mod any of them and compare it to a octane where the shortest edge of the Q mod is the same as the shorthest edge of a octane. If you do that than you will see. I do not understand what is so difficulte aboud it. Do a little math. and let me know your result. I will not throw this away just because you do not understand. Compare any shape you like, for gett the wall,forget the bricks, forget the whole structurte just compare any shape under these conditions and let me know, we are dealing with infinite possibilities I could be wrong since lifetime is to short to try all shapes, but you obviously do not comprehand even the general meaning, why you complicating something what you can not comprehand at the elementary level. Once you said that I going one step further than Fuller, than you completely change again and we are beck where we started. Sometime it's seams you understand and sometimes you completely diverge from what we already established. Make up your mind. frank > thus quoth: > I know that but I only looking for only one measly > brick. I do not have to build the wall by only > identical bricks I just saying that the octane under > that condition is going to be the smallest one. No > magical properties. Just compare a Q mod. having > it's > shorthest edge of 1 unit and lets see. > > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) > ECONOMIE?... > La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols > des Grises de Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" > http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, > below): > 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 04:25:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this will be today's last futile attempt at "Magyar as my next language." we can make the very same "disection" of any of the regular polyhedra, giving only trigon-, tetragon- or pentagon-based pyramids, and all of them compare with Zube's some-how-minimal one; so, What? also, we canrestrict ourselves to only the 3 shapes that have trigonal facets,thus generating "tetrahedral bricks." now, these three terahedra include "Zubek's Doob," but *how* is it supposed to be compared to the other two? now, I challenge anyone to say what the following is supposed to mean -- but it might be better if you tried the "lunes proof of the PT," firstly! thus quoth: This is very good than the trigon of identical legs at 90 deg. is the largest trigon under 180 deg.arc. So now any trigon like a skaline tri. 90 deg. whose shortest leg is just somewhat longer as the leg of the 90 deg.isoscalene tri. has to have more area. So under this stipulation it is clear that the surface of a right deg.tri. as the three faces of a octane is going to be the smallest triangle. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:05:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > this will be today's last futile attempt > at "Magyar as my next language." > > we can make the very same "disection" > of any of the regular polyhedra, > giving only trigon-, tetragon- or pentagon-based > pyramids, and > all of them compare with Zube's some-how-minimal > one; so, > What? > also, we canrestrict ourselves to only the 3 > shapes > that have trigonal facets,thus generating > "tetrahedral bricks." now, > these three terahedra include "Zubek's Doob," but > *how* is it supposed to be compared to the other > two? Look you Polak, you are not restricted at all, there is least a dosens of ways to build a structure just with my set, and there is endles possibilities with all other existing sets. Just put any shape you like whose shortest edge is of one unit length and lets see. We all know that a tet. has same amount of faces as vertexis so we know that the tet. is the most minimal shape, so I have excluded all other shapes vhere they would just intrafere with simplicity. The question is which one is the most minimal under condition of standarization. Just pick that stupid Q-mod and do some math. We can talk all day eventhough I do not have much time to waste. Get your Q-mod. B-mod or you can go through the whole alfabet and show me a smaller brick. Just try one shape and give me your discovery. Are you a Polak or what. > now, I challenge anyone to say > what the following is supposed to mean -- but > it might be better if you tried the "lunes proof > of the PT," firstly! > > thus quoth: > This is very good than the trigon of identical legs > at > 90 deg. is the largest trigon under 180 deg.arc. So > now any trigon like a skaline tri. 90 deg. whose > shortest leg is just somewhat longer as the leg of > the > 90 deg.isoscalene tri. has to have more area. So > under > this stipulation it is clear that the surface of a > right deg.tri. as the three faces of a octane is > going > to be the smallest triangle. Make a semicircle put two points at the base of this semicircle at bouth ends than make a point anywhere on the circumference and connect the dots and you see that all tri. you make this way are 90 deg. tri. Now try to observe which if any is the largest one. tHE HIGHEST POINT on this semicircle is at the midle and if you connect the dots at this point the largest tri. is the right.deg.tri. of identical legs. So all infinite amount of tri. generated by this method are smaller, because one of they legs is shorter than the leg of the right. tri. If all these tri. would have they shorthest leg same as the shor. leg. of a isos.right deg.tri. than all these tri. are going to be larger. Just try this and than talk. frank > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 23:07:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Zube, I already gave a counter-example to your "smallest," but I'm sure that you'll change the definition, once more. please, don't bitch at me for my language, unless you can give a specific example of "what Brian did, wrongly." the fact is that you seem to miss almost every thing that is typed-in in English, til about the 3rd or fifth try, and only when several approaches to the same geometrical stuff are made. that is to say, I'll wait for further reply, til you have found what I'd recently posted, and configured it so that you comprehend it. I always ask college students if a) they had a geometry class in middle or high school, and if b) they did or did not supplement "proofs" with the compass-constructions, because without the latter, it's "too left-brained" to really learn it. as for the construction of right trigona in a (semi-) circle, what makes you think that I didn't know that, yes, the isoceles one has the largest area? I didn't quite mention that, in the case of a hexahedron-corner, a tetrahedron with three right trigona and one that is akin to the hypoteneuse, you have to take the second-power of the *areas* of the faces: AA+BB+CC=DD e.g., where the variables are the trigonal areas. anyway, you can't just say "the Tet is the real cheese of minima," without defining the comparison -- as I gave the counterexample for that. is the $500 in escrow? thus quoth: We all know that a tet. has same amount of faces as vertexis so we know that the tet. is the most minimal shape, so I have excluded all other shapes vhere they would just intrafere with simplicity. The question is which one is the most minimal under condition of standarization. Just pick that stupid Q-mod and do --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 19:35:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > Zube, I already gave a counter-example to your > "smallest," but > I'm sure that you'll change the definition, once > more. please, > don't bitch at me for my language, unless > you can give a specific example of "what Brian did, > wrongly." Look, Q- stick I do not have to go beck and digg all the isults you put people through. I'm not aware that I have change my definition on this subject what so ever. the fact is that you seem to miss almost every > thing > that is typed-in in English, til about the 3rd or > fifth try, and > only when several approaches to the same geometrical > stuff are made. > that is to say, > I'll wait for further reply, til you have found what > I'd recently posted, > and > configured it so that you comprehend it. > > I always ask college students if a) > they had a geometry class in middle or high school, > and if b) > they did or did not supplement "proofs" with the > compass-constructions, > because > without the latter, it's "too left-brained" to > really learn it. > > as for the construction of right trigona > in a (semi-) circle, what makes you think that > I didn't know that, yes, the isoceles one has the > largest area? So there you go, so there is a shape of the largest area. Now that you finaly agree, than all tri. under that semicircle would be larger if they shorthest leg would be the same size as the shorthest leg of that isoceles tri. correct? > I didn't quite mention that, > in the case of a hexahedron-corner, a tetrahedron > with three right trigona > and > one that is akin to the hypoteneuse, > you have to take the second-power of the *areas* of > the faces: > AA+BB+CC=DD e.g., where the variables are the > trigonal areas. > > anyway, you can't just say "the Tet is the real > cheese > of minima," Yes, Q-stick we all know that, the question is, is there a shape a *particular a specific shape* among tets. which is the absolutely the smallest one. Because it seams that by the construction of that wall, or bridge where one can say I do not want no brick or strut be any shorther than one unit in length than it is clear that you or no one else can produce nothing smaller than the *octane*. without defining the comparison -- as > I gave the counterexample for that. > is the $500 in escrow? $500 is not such a los it would bother me more if I would be incorrect and as I said it is possible, since we are dealing with infinite posibilities. But to prove me wrong or correct we do not need to go through each and every shape. I know that I'm correct since just about a month ago I rtelized that the octet truss is one of many solutions and there it is, octet truss contains 4 octains to one reg.tet. This does not counterdicts Fuller it just states that no structure can be made of any smaller shapes under that standarization. Zubek's minima. > thus quoth: > We all know that a tet. has same amount of faces as > vertexis so we know that the tet. is the most > minimal > shape, so I have excluded all other shapes vhere > they > would just intrafere with simplicity. The question > is > which one is the most minimal under condition of > standarization. Just pick that stupid Q-mod and do > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 02:55:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed thou repeatest thy self. as the "octane" only makes octahedra, why is it such a big deal "by the construction of that wall, or bridge" -- if it won't even do that? just to repeat it: you can decompose any of the 3 regular trigon-faced shapes into tetrahedra, just like your "octane;" seeing as the octahedron is the middle one of these, one of the others must be "smaller" by this tiny criterium -- or most of the ones that you might consider. QED. so, whine about that, but I won't be able to answer til tomorrow, Zube. thus qutoh: there a shape a *particular a specific shape* among tets. which is the absolutely the smallest one. Because it seams that by the construction of that wall, or bridge where one can say I do not want no brick or strut be any shorther than one unit in length than it is clear that you or no one else can produce nothing smaller than the *octane*. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 02:58:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I do need $500, but not necessarily in one lump sum.... wow; I could open an account! --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:17:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: wooden dome home on HGTV Comments: To: "Teri L. Hiatt" Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teri, I'm aware of the dome in Bullhead city but I don't know the diameter and address. Could you estimate the diameter and pin down the address? A street name & cross street would be sufficient if someone wanted to view it. Here's my list of domes in Idaho: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-I.htm My only suggestion re building a home of any type is try to achieve the following design criteria: Won't burn, Won't rot Can't be eaten by bugs Is earthquake proof Can withstand winds of 100 mph Won't collapse under heavy snowloads Preferably self-contained utility-wise (water, electricity, heat, etc) Here's a design that Fuller did: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosDomeHomeHiTech.htm And here's a model that I built out of paper plates: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosDomeFlyEyeModel.htm And my dream dome (200'diam, 30,000sq'): http://buckminster.info/Ideas/08-IcosDomeMansion.htm Sigh--- -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teri L. Hiatt" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:47 PM Subject: Re: wooden dome home on HGTV > Hey Joe, > Thanks for the list. I'm in Bullhead City and have seen the one here > which is not too impressive. I'm hoping to move to Idaho soon, just came > back from there looking for land to build. I was surprised to see quite a > few domes up there. I've been studying alternative housing for years. What I > mainly saw up there were traditional log homes which are functional and > practical for the area but pretty boxy, boring like 95% of most architecture > around. It seems the really interesting stuff is designed by architects who > are way out of my price range. I'm a sculptor so I like the more organic > forms with more character. Even most of the wooden domes I've seen seem to > be limited in design capabilities. The concrete ones seem more flowing but > I do like the warmth of wood. I'm still checking things out so I joined the > list to hear other people's ideas. > Teri ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:30:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Dome Greenhouse / Emergency Shelter Comments: To: David Penny Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave, Yes, I definitely want information on your dome. I would like to add your name to my Bucky Fuller Master Index: http://buckminster.info/Index/0-IndexTOC.htm and also to the Dome Manufacturers list: http://buckminster.info/Index/Dome-Dt.htm (scroll down) Do you have a web site? That is the best way to let people know what you have to offer. I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to two Bucky-related electronic newsletters in order to let them know about your domes. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Penny" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 8:35 AM Subject: Dome Greenhouse / Emergency Shelter > Joe > I am a long time fan and student of Buckminster Fuller. He was a big part > of my Urban Planning Studies in the 60s. Always wanted to build a dome and > here it is. It stands 7' tall, ships in a box 48" x 45" x 6" and weighs 60 > lbs. I may commercialize it as a greenhouse or emergency housing at less > than $200 if there is interest. > > Enjoyed your site and thought pictures might be of interest. Let me know > and I will forward pictures on separate email. > > Dave Penny Tel: (519) 766-1129 > 84 Woodborough Road, Fax: (519) 766-4462 > Guelph, ON, N1G 3K5 Cell: (519) 242-8358 > CANADA > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:20:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: NE design science conference Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii June 29th, SUNY Oswego, NY. http://snec.cjfearnley.com/snec.2003.06.pdf Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 23:18:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: comment request Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed on three links. I hope Bob Burkhardt (whose pdf is --aside from the math that I don't understand-- a FSF mini-manifesto) is interested in the "dynamics of collective invention" and could make a comment on the math of this link, for the people that would like to see the linux fever on all levels of the net The Dynamics of Collective Invention This paper was prepared by Robin Cowan and Nicolas Jonard for the Maastricht Economic Research Institute on Innovation and Technology (MERIT). The authors develop a "formal model that accounts for the dynamics of knowledge and collective invention, and examine how the architecture of the network of agents influences patterns and rate of innovation." A copy of the paper is available at: http://meritbbs.unimaas.nl/rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf A humblefier link about the net (I suppose this list is included, as well as BFI.ORG) of 1997. Could anybody say if this is true for 2003? What is wrong is that a tiny tail of "copyright protection" is wagging the big dog of communications among humans. As Andy Odlyzko pointed out, (http://www.research.att.com/~amo/doc/eworld.html, see "Content is not king" and "The history of communications and its implications for the Internet"), "The annual movie theater ticket sales in the U.S. are well under $10 billion. The telephone industry collects that much money every two weeks!" Distorting the law and the technology of human communication and computing, in order to protect the interests of copyright holders, makes the world poorer overall. Even if it didn't violate fundamental policies for the long-term stability of societies, it would be the wrong economic decision. http://www.research.att.com/~amo/doc/eworld.html And this...... I suppose is for Quincy http://www.bfi.org/Trimtab/spring01/globaltrends.htm Once I commented to BFI that it was a shame to have a document like this in the main www page that predicted terror and more terror. Gerardo García Tampico, México PD Que onda Pancho? está triste el panorama para el 25, verdad? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:04:05 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: comment request In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Yo quince,=20 How come los mejicanos are the only ones who get to the meat of the matter on this list? Che! gerardo. que pasara el 25? El proximo pretexto para el proximo blanco? =20 francho El 15/5/03 01:18 am, "Gerardo Garcia" escribi=F3: > on three links. I hope Bob Burkhardt (whose pdf is --aside from the math > that I don't understand-- a FSF mini-manifesto) is interested in the > "dynamics of collective invention" and could make a comment on the math o= f > this link, for the people that would like to see the linux fever on all > levels of the net >=20 > The Dynamics of Collective Invention >=20 > This paper was prepared by Robin Cowan and Nicolas Jonard for the Maastri= cht > Economic Research Institute on Innovation and > Technology (MERIT). The authors develop a "formal model that accounts fo= r > the dynamics of knowledge and collective invention, and examine how the > architecture of the network of agents influences patterns and rate of > innovation." A copy of the paper is available at: >=20 > http://meritbbs.unimaas.nl/rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf >=20 >=20 > A humblefier link about the net (I suppose this list is included, as well= as > BFI.ORG) of 1997. Could anybody say if this is true for 2003? >=20 > What is wrong is that a tiny tail of "copyright protection" is wagging th= e > big dog of communications among humans. As Andy Odlyzko pointed out, > (http://www.research.att.com/~amo/doc/eworld.html, see "Content is not ki= ng" > and "The history of communications and its implications for the Internet"= ), > "The annual movie theater ticket sales in the U.S. are well under $10 > billion. The telephone industry collects that much money every two weeks= !" > Distorting the law and the technology of human communication and computin= g, > in order to protect the interests of copyright holders, makes the world > poorer overall. Even if it didn't violate fundamental policies for the > long-term stability of societies, it would be the wrong economic decision= . >=20 > http://www.research.att.com/~amo/doc/eworld.html >=20 >=20 > And this...... I suppose is for Quincy >=20 > http://www.bfi.org/Trimtab/spring01/globaltrends.htm >=20 > Once I commented to BFI that it was a shame to have a document like this = in > the main www page that predicted terror and more terror. >=20 > Gerardo Garc=EDa > Tampico, M=E9xico >=20 > PD Que onda Pancho? est=E1 triste el panorama para el 25, verdad? >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:23:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: geodomes Comments: To: norma mac Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Norma, My list for Scotland is kinda short--so far. See http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-S.htm (scroll down to "Scotland") You'll have to look through the list of dome manufacturers for one in Scotland (assuming you're there). See http://buckminster.info/Index/Dome-Dt.htm (scroll down to "Manufacturers") -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "norma mac" To: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 6:14 AM Subject: geodomes > hi..are there any in scotland...how do I order the > custom built packs and what is the cost?? > all the best with your great work Norma Macleod > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:32:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > thou repeatest thy self. as the "octane" only makes > octahedra, > why is it such a big deal "by the construction of > that > wall, or bridge" -- if it won't even do that? Q. I just pick the octane as the smallest brick a *single* brick or few bricks I know that for octane you need other shapes to work like a reg.tet. or a solid kite or a double corner or a Q-mod or what ever works for who ever builds a wall. In my observation from all shapes I have mentioned the octane is the smallest one IF STANDARIZATION IS THE LIMIT. Do not get confused that I looking for *all* bricks to be the smallest ones in a structure. If you build something where you have limit of size as a length of a strut for example or a brick I do not care what you pick for your blocks but show me just one measly brick which would be smaller than the octane. If Q-mod and I mean any Q-mod is the choice for you than you can not collect any reward because the Q-mod is larger than the octane. > just to repeat it: > you can decompose any of the 3 regular trigon-faced > shapes > into tetrahedra, just like your "octane;" > seeing as the octahedron is the middle one of these, > one of the others must be "smaller" by this tiny > criterium -- or > most of the ones that you might consider. QED. > so, whine about that, but I won't be able to > answer > til tomorrow, Zube. Q. I appreciate your relentless and consider you a very sharp guy, least you have the guts to diverge from the main stream and I do not see that for any synergio or geodesic guys to do so. These guys have they bible and that is all they will ever know. The brain stimulation stopt for them period. The most important think about the octane is that by dissecting any irregular and it probably does not matter how irregular any tet. is the bottom line is that in the core of every shape there is going to be a octane deep with it's core. When you get to that point then all consecutive dissections will produce nothing new but the same all shapes we have dissected previously. This is way more different and way deeper than Fuller ever got. For these guys it is inconceveble because their bible does not talk about that. Example. Reg. tet. by the dissections as I have done and it have been done centuries ago, you see that by the method I have applied by removing four reg.tets from a large two freq.tet. that the leftover in that tet. is 8 octanes in it's core a octahedron. This is true for all shapes, that in they core there going to be least one octane and we can go again where we started. If I split the double corner in to a half it will produce a another double corner and this is a endless repetitive dissection producing the same thing over and over. Notice that i just cut it in to a 1/2 if i would apply the rule of the corners than it would have octane in its corner. You also have to realize that that my set contains all the irregulars contained in a cube. there is no more or less. Zubeks cube contains all the shapes derived from a cube based on the cube dimenssions, and these shapes also contains all the Q mods as a small fraction with in. It is the same as to say that the sphere contains all the shape in existence.So how many combinations you can do with A-mod left or right a Hand-full?, because in three years I still have lot to discover with my set. As far what is more fundamental, well you be the judge. The reason why I feel so strongly because as have I said previously I realized that the famous octet truss is also one of the correct solution for such wall construction. One more thing. If everyone thinks that Q-mods are very fundamental where to achieve identity of the first order one only needs to make three cuts either derive three identical pieces from a 1/4 reg.tet. and I have done even better than that because my three cuts give me *4* pieces of the volume identity. Fuller hat to do 6 cuts to arrive at 6 shapes to achieve identity. If Fuller claims that the nature always use efficiency as the main driving motivation of all existence, what happened to his 6 cuts why six where the first order identity can be achieved by less achieving more. Kirby told me that the main goal for Fuller was to dissect a shape where he could do couplers,cubes, dodecas and so on. I tell you that is a bunch of bull because there is no individual on this planet who can pick a solid and say with pre determent certainty what any particular dissections would produce. No one can pick a solid and say with a predetermen atitude what is going to be the result. First you *cut* and than you observe and that is the way any one can do it. It is clear that Fuller believers do give a extraordenirary abilities to him and for no reason. Synergetic is a nice and interesting discipline and Fuller have did some remarkable work and I do agree with lots of the stuff he established,but he is not a bottom lime for my thinking. We could end this disscusion if you just pick any shape you like ,standardize its shortest edge to a shortest edge of the octane build a simple wall and establish which of these shapes is the smallest one. Other way is to try to do some dissections, but try to be little bit more clever in your dissection than Fuller. Do not use a mathematical induction to achieve identity as Fuller had, rather use simplicity, common sence and most importantly fallow the rules of the nature ,because there is no nature in a Q-mod. The diversity of the Q-mod is just a small fraction as far what is possible with really natural dissection. Q- mod only can do a miesly small fraction what I can do and to my surprise most synergio guys think that the Q mods are the greatest dissections ever conceived under the sun. But simply if I can do more with less I know that Q-mods are at the back burner for now. frank > thus qutoh: > there a shape a *particular a specific shape* among > tets. which is the absolutely the smallest one. > Because it seams that by the construction of that > wall, or bridge where one can say I do not want no > brick or strut be any shorther than one unit in > length > than it is clear that you or no one else can produce > nothing smaller than the *octane*. > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection > with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:43:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030513011627.71452.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Okay, we have a game. This is getting interesting! > > This is going to be great. I understand you finally. > > Dick Well if you do that's good, but than what is your opinion,conclussion, because if you do understand you have to see that the octane is indeed the limit of minima. Zubek's minima. If you have a even smaller brick than I do need to send you $500. frank frank __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:37:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you type like you're on speed, dood; unless it's perfect Standard Gibberish!... but, hey, I'm willing to work for my $500. it's still impossible to determine what your criteria are, and it may take that ESL class, before you can do it for us.... OK; I'll try one more time -- and don't answer online; think about it, type it out and then "upload" it. the shortest edge of "the unit" is normalized as "one" -- that much seems clear. now, are you saying that The Unit has the smallest surface/volume ratio of any such units, or the largest s/v ... or do you calculate it as v/s? does The Unit have to build-out to fill space, or does it only have to build one little thing -- or is it required to build an octahedron, and if so, why that? on the wayside, it is *impossible* to divide what you call a "double corner" into two of the same, because it already *is* an "LCD module." you can poo-poo the Bucky Witches, but that doesn't mean that you really know what they're talking about (if they ever doo it .-) "double corner" is not a perspicuous phrase for this shape, which is made of 4 right trigona -- that's why it has been called, the "quadrirectangular tetrahedron." it actually does *not* have two vertices, where all of the trigona meet at right angles: I just drew one, and only two right angles meet at two vertices, out of three, and that accounts for all of the "right" angles. one can appreciate this shape, just by drawing a rectangle and its two diagonals; although it's a flat, "degenerate" tetrahedron, it has the 4 right trigona. isn't that "right," BWs? by the way, one can chop the reg.tetrah. into 4 quadrirect.tetrah. (QT) using only two cuts; for the hexahedron (qyoob), you only need those "three cuts," that you mentioned. of course, though both give QTs, they are not the same shapes, except for the "rightness" of the angles! thus quoth: The most important think about the octane is that by dissecting any irregular and it probably does not matter how irregular any tet. is the bottom line is that in the core of every shape there is going to be a octane deep with it's core. When you get to that point then all consecutive dissections will produce nothing new but the same all shapes we have dissected previously. This is way more different and way deeper --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:44:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed once again: don't answer instantly. I'm not going to be back to this dumbterminal til tomorrow, anyway. do us a favor & make a nice, short, pithy essay on The Fantastic Zubikal Doob!... and, always put your URL at the end (in a "signature"), so that any folks that are new to the dyscussion can at least see that you have a model, no matter your language acquisition. --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:18:45 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: comment request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I got a 404 error when I tried the first link. "The requested URL /rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf was not found on this server." Only the "acknowledgements" page of my PDF gets into Linux (see also http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/acknowledge.html). I wouldn't call the PDF a mini-manifesto for FSF. I found Linux/GNU very handy because it provided the high-quality tools I needed for free. Bob Gerardo Garcia wrote: > on three links. I hope Bob Burkhardt (whose pdf is --aside from the math > that I don't understand-- a FSF mini-manifesto) is interested in the > "dynamics of collective invention" and could make a comment on the > math of > this link, for the people that would like to see the linux fever on all > levels of the net > > The Dynamics of Collective Invention > > This paper was prepared by Robin Cowan and Nicolas Jonard for the > Maastricht > Economic Research Institute on Innovation and > Technology (MERIT). The authors develop a "formal model that accounts > for > the dynamics of knowledge and collective invention, and examine how the > architecture of the network of agents influences patterns and rate of > innovation." A copy of the paper is available at: > > http://meritbbs.unimaas.nl/rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf > > > A humblefier link about the net (I suppose this list is included, as > well as > BFI.ORG) of 1997. Could anybody say if this is true for 2003? > > What is wrong is that a tiny tail of "copyright protection" is wagging > the > big dog of communications among humans. As Andy Odlyzko pointed out, > (http://www.research.att.com/~amo/doc/eworld.html, see "Content is not > king" > and "The history of communications and its implications for the > Internet"), > "The annual movie theater ticket sales in the U.S. are well under $10 > billion. The telephone industry collects that much money every two > weeks!" > Distorting the law and the technology of human communication and > computing, > in order to protect the interests of copyright holders, makes the world > poorer overall. Even if it didn't violate fundamental policies for the > long-term stability of societies, it would be the wrong economic > decision. > > http://www.research.att.com/~amo/doc/eworld.html > > > And this...... I suppose is for Quincy > > http://www.bfi.org/Trimtab/spring01/globaltrends.htm > > Once I commented to BFI that it was a shame to have a document like > this in > the main www page that predicted terror and more terror. > > Gerardo García > Tampico, México > > PD Que onda Pancho? está triste el panorama para el 25, verdad? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 00:59:55 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: comment request Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Bob Burkhardt >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: comment request >Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:18:45 -0400 this link seems to work. http://www-edocs.unimaas.nl/files/mer00018.pdf sorry for minimanifesto, maybe nanomanifesto? Gerardo García Tampìco, México >I got a 404 error when I tried the first link. >"The requested URL /rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf was not found on this >server." > > >Only the "acknowledgements" page of my PDF gets into Linux (see also >http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/acknowledge.html). I >wouldn't call the PDF a mini-manifesto for FSF. I found Linux/GNU very >handy because it provided the high-quality tools I needed for free. > >Bob > > >Gerardo Garcia wrote: > >>on three links. I hope Bob Burkhardt (whose pdf is --aside from the math >>that I don't understand-- a FSF mini-manifesto) is interested in the >>"dynamics of collective invention" and could make a comment on the >>math of >>this link, for the people that would like to see the linux fever on all >>levels of the net >> >>The Dynamics of Collective Invention >> >>This paper was prepared by Robin Cowan and Nicolas Jonard for the >>Maastricht >>Economic Research Institute on Innovation and >>Technology (MERIT). The authors develop a "formal model that accounts >>for >>the dynamics of knowledge and collective invention, and examine how the >>architecture of the network of agents influences patterns and rate of >>innovation." A copy of the paper is available at: >> >>http://meritbbs.unimaas.nl/rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf >> _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:35:08 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I like this adult side of you very much mr. Quincy. pancho El 15/5/03 11:37 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escribi=F3= : > you type like you're on speed, dood; > unless it's perfect Standard Gibberish!... but, hey, > I'm willing to work for my $500. >=20 > it's still impossible to determine what your criteria are, and > it may take that ESL class, before you can do it for us.... OK; > I'll try one more time -- and don't answer online; think about it, > type it out and then "upload" it. >=20 > the shortest edge of "the unit" is normalized as "one" -- that much seems > clear. > now, are you saying that The Unit has the smallest surface/volume ratio > of any such units, or the largest s/v ... or do you calculate it as v/s? > does The Unit have to build-out to fill space, or > does it only have to build one little thing -- or is it required to build= an > octahedron, and > if so, why that? >=20 > on the wayside, > it is *impossible* to divide what you call a "double corner" into two of = the > same, because > it already *is* an "LCD module." you can poo-poo the Bucky Witches, but > that doesn't mean that you really know what they're talking about (if > they ever doo it .-) > "double corner" is not a perspicuous phrase for this shape, > which is made of 4 right trigona -- that's why it has been called, > the "quadrirectangular tetrahedron." it actually does *not* have two > vertices, > where all of the trigona meet at right angles: > I just drew one, and only two right angles meet at two vertices, out of > three, and > that accounts for all of the "right" angles. > one can appreciate this shape, > just by drawing a rectangle and its two diagonals; although > it's a flat, "degenerate" tetrahedron, it has the 4 right trigona. >=20 > isn't that "right," BWs? >=20 > by the way, > one can chop the reg.tetrah. into 4 quadrirect.tetrah. (QT) > using only two cuts; for the hexahedron (qyoob), > you only need those "three cuts," that you mentioned. of course, > though both give QTs, they are not the same shapes, > except for the "rightness" of the angles! >=20 > thus quoth: > The most important think about the octane is that by > dissecting any irregular and it probably does not > matter how irregular any tet. is the bottom line is > that in the core of every shape there is going to be a > octane deep with it's core. When you get to that point > then all consecutive dissections will produce nothing > new but the same all shapes we have dissected > previously. This is way more different and way deeper >=20 > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:59:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Frank wrote: > I like this adult side of you very much mr. Quincy. > > pancho > El 15/5/03 11:37 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" > escribió: > > > you type like you're on speed, dood; Do you? well just wait till he insults you, lets see how you like it. But in general it is fun, "What comes around goes around" frank > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months > FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:52:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: frank zubek >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: dome math >Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:59:28 -0700 I smell sparks, maybe flames, but few things to ignite and the electric grid soon will be useless even in the second hand market Fuller said that the device was the message (when he felt "devicy") then, mind is everything muscle is nothing (when he felt metaphysical) what is the metaphysical device that is being constructed (cosmogenesis? alla T. de Chardin?) cooperation? collective invention? now I see the math shelves full of "precalculus" books (Is it a reaction to the Bolivian in California teacher Jaime Escalante that taught calculus without the "pre" suffix, as protrayed in the film "Stand and deliver?). What math is "the math"? While the poll runs, from two masterpieces: from the Spanish film "Soldados de Salamina" (Soldiers of Salamina): "the left will always disappoint. We already know what the right wants" >From a "Dell computers" (PC line supervisor): "OK guys, this is home, you are going to spend a lot of hours here. Your house is vacation. And real vacations are paradise" Gerardo García Tampico, México PD Could Quincy write the apology of speed? (when associated with LSD, not fat) >--- Frank wrote: > > I like this adult side of you very much mr. Quincy. > > > > pancho > > El 15/5/03 11:37 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" > > escribió: > > > > > you type like you're on speed, dood; > >Do you? well just wait till he insults you, lets see >how you like it. But in general it is fun, "What >comes around goes around" > >frank > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months > > FREE* > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:24:02 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: comment request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gerardo, That link works. I'll look it over. I definitely like nanomanifesto better. Bob Gerardo Garcia wrote: >> From: Bob Burkhardt >> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: comment request >> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:18:45 -0400 > > > this link seems to work. > > http://www-edocs.unimaas.nl/files/mer00018.pdf > > sorry for minimanifesto, maybe nanomanifesto? > > Gerardo García > Tampìco, México > > >> I got a 404 error when I tried the first link. >> "The requested URL /rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf was not found on this >> server." >> >> >> Only the "acknowledgements" page of my PDF gets into Linux (see also >> http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/acknowledge.html). I >> wouldn't call the PDF a mini-manifesto for FSF. I found Linux/GNU very >> handy because it provided the high-quality tools I needed for free. >> >> Bob >> >> >> Gerardo Garcia wrote: >> >>> on three links. I hope Bob Burkhardt (whose pdf is --aside from the >>> math >>> that I don't understand-- a FSF mini-manifesto) is interested in the >>> "dynamics of collective invention" and could make a comment on the >>> math of >>> this link, for the people that would like to see the linux fever on all >>> levels of the net >>> >>> The Dynamics of Collective Invention >>> >>> This paper was prepared by Robin Cowan and Nicolas Jonard for the >>> Maastricht >>> Economic Research Institute on Innovation and >>> Technology (MERIT). The authors develop a "formal model that accounts >>> for >>> the dynamics of knowledge and collective invention, and examine how the >>> architecture of the network of agents influences patterns and rate of >>> innovation." A copy of the paper is available at: >>> >>> http://meritbbs.unimaas.nl/rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf >>> > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:30:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Gerardo Garcia wrote: > >From: frank zubek > >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster > Fuller's works > > > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: dome math > >Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:59:28 -0700 > > I smell sparks, maybe flames, but few things to > ignite > and the electric grid soon will be useless even in > the second hand market Me and Q-tip, just rekock the circuit breakers when they pop, and than go on again. > Fuller said that the device was the message (when he > felt "devicy") > then, mind is everything muscle is nothing (when he > felt metaphysical) > > what is the metaphysical device that is being > constructed (cosmogenesis? > alla T. de Chardin?) > cooperation? collective invention? I enjoy the list, since it is global,one can assume that there is all sort of folks one encounters, where politeness is the last thing on some folks mind. > now I see the math shelves full of "precalculus" > books (Is it a reaction to > the Bolivian in California teacher Jaime Escalante > that taught calculus > without the "pre" suffix, as protrayed in the film > "Stand and deliver?). > What math is "the math"? It was a very good movie evnthough I'm not a movie buff I wish more schools would use such approach, (demonstrative mathematics) unfortunately today schools completely omits such approach and many schools do not even do geometry. 34% of kids graduating school can't even read or wright, in other words schools not even achieving the most basic and elementary need, so mathematics is lacking behind as most other subjects do to. > While the poll runs, from two masterpieces: > > from the Spanish film "Soldados de Salamina" > (Soldiers of Salamina): "the > left will always disappoint. We already know what > the right wants" > frank > From a "Dell computers" (PC line supervisor): "OK > guys, this is home, you > are going to spend a lot of hours here. Your house > is vacation. And real > vacations are paradise" > > Gerardo García > Tampico, México > > PD Could Quincy write the apology of speed? (when > associated with LSD, not > fat) > > >--- Frank wrote: > > > I like this adult side of you very much mr. > Quincy. > > > > > > pancho > > > El 15/5/03 11:37 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" > > > escribió: > > > > > > > you type like you're on speed, dood; > > > >Do you? well just wait till he insults you, lets > see > >how you like it. But in general it is fun, "What > >comes around goes around" > > > >frank > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 > months > > > FREE* > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > >http://search.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:47:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > once again: > don't answer instantly. I'm not going to be back > to this dumbterminal til tomorrow, anyway. Why, you try to solve something dumb unless you are dumb your self. > do us a favor & make a nice, short, pithy essay > on The Fantastic Zubikal Doob!... and, > always put your URL at the end (in a "signature"), > so that > any folks that are new to the dyscussion can at > least see that > you have a model, no matter your language > acquisition. I doubth if it would help, since you have seen my site and still have problems. Q-ball, in two decades I know that there is only one kind of people having problem with a accent or grammatical inccorectness, those are the one's newer read a book and newer been nowhere and of course newer achieved anything, so only thing they are correct at has nothing to do with the subject it's self. I'm sure that you have heard this before. That most people in field of science ,mathem. hide they inefficiency behind big words, but this folks then should write a poem or study language arts, or write some political columns where in those subject big words are essential to diverge from a reality and misslead those less fortunate. frank > --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) > ECONOMIE?... > La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols > des Grises de Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" > http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, > below): > 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 > 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE > 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU > 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:39:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > you type like you're on speed, Well finally I have least something common with the home boys. dood; > unless it's perfect Standard Gibberish!... but, > hey, > I'm willing to work for my $500. > > it's still impossible to determine what your > criteria are, and > it may take that ESL class, before you can do it for > us.... OK; > I'll try one more time -- and don't answer online; > think about it, > type it out and then "upload" it. If it would be so hard for everyone as it is for you no one would ever reply to me and as you see that is not the case, rather a fact that most folks do not respond to you, because no one can understand your own language. > the shortest edge of "the unit" is normalized as > "one" -- that much seems > clear. > now, are you saying that The Unit has the > smallest surface/volume ratio > of any such units, or the largest s/v ... or do you > calculate it as v/s? Look, I have said this many times, no efficiency, ratios,symmetries, strength or any other attributes of any particular solid is relevant. LOOK AT EACH SHAPE AS A INDIVIDUAL , ONLY LOOKING FOR A SURFACE AREA OF EACH ONE NO OTHER ATTRIBUTES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED JUST THE SIZE OF A INDIVIDUAL SHAPE COMPARED TO ANY SHAPE IN THAT STRUCTURE. > does The Unit have to build-out to fill space, > or Unit a (shape)a tet. yes it has to fill space in all directions as any conventual wall would. Smooth walls it does not matter if they are squved, tilted, or standing perpendicular, like a cube or a rec.solid, parralleploid,rhomb. and so on. > does it only have to build one little thing The little thing have to be able to attache to other little things, what ever that means. -- or is > it required to build an > octahedron, and > if so, why that? It is not required to build anything in particular it is up to you what and how you choose to do it. There are no restrictions other than the edge length. > on the wayside, > it is *impossible* to divide what you call a "double > corner" into two of the > same, because > it already *is* an "LCD module." Q-stick have you heard about frequency, well if yes the shape derived by dissecting a DC in to a 1/2 would be still (LCD) but smaller. If I cut the DC. in 1/2 each 1/2 is a 1/4 coupler each 1/4 contains 4 DC. sO the two 1/2 will produce a 1/2 coupler which in this case is made up of 8 Dc. There is a another combination, but you seems to be confused already enough. you can poo-poo > the Bucky Witches, but > that doesn't mean that you really know what they're > talking about (if > they ever doo it .-) > "double corner" is not a perspicuous phrase for > this shape, > which is made of 4 right trigona -- that's why it > has been called, > the "quadrirectangular tetrahedron." it actually > does *not* have two > vertices, > where all of the trigona meet at right angles: > I just drew one, and only two right angles meet at > two vertices, out of > three, and > that accounts for all of the "right" angles. > one can appreciate this shape, > just by drawing a rectangle and its two diagonals; > although > it's a flat, "degenerate" tetrahedron, it has the 4 > right trigona. > > isn't that "right," BWs? Yes that is correct, as far the name goes I just use what is more easier for me and others. Many these shapes have very complex names, hardly anyone knows the proper name. Quadrirectangular tet. OK. so what. > by the way, > one can chop the reg.tetrah. into 4 > quadrirect.tetrah. (QT) You can newer derive the (QT). from a reg.tet. because there is no one side on that solid, which would have even a fractional portion of a equilateral tri. That is, if QT is same as DC double corner. > using only two cuts; for the hexahedron (qyoob), > you only need those "three cuts," that you > mentioned. of course, > though both give QTs, they are not the same shapes, > except for the "rightness" of the angles! > > thus quoth: > The most important think about the octane is that by > dissecting any irregular and it probably does not > matter how irregular any tet. is the bottom line is > that in the core of every shape there is going to be > a > octane deep with it's core. When you get to that > point > then all consecutive dissections will produce > nothing > new but the same all shapes we have dissected > previously. This is way more different and way > deeper > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 22:47:27 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed [was, Re: dome math; does *any* one know what Zube is trying to say?] don't take it as some awfully barbaric insult, every God-am time, just because I'm trying to inject some humor into this endless effort of communicating in a half of a language (English), your Zubeness. (however, for more fun, you could check-out Korbyzki's "E-prime," which tries to make a virtue out of a recent (or older) immigrant's Pidgin efforts -- what a joke, taht it was actually taken seriously for decades !-) I will just invite *any* one else on the list to say, what in Hell you are supposed to mean by what you typed; I cannot. it really seems to be quite evasive, as to any definition that we might be able to pin-down. it's just fine, for you to believe taht everyone knows what you mean, but no-one else has actually attempted to "talk it back to you," as I have. go & check the backlog, and see that that is quite so, dood. anyway, no-one has yet seen taht there is *any* thing new in it, that is not to be found in the subject of crystallography -- even if that has its own, peculiar jargon. as for your say-soes about teh "QTs" (quadrirect.tatrah.), you have to realize that the division of the tetrahedron gives a different one, than doing it to the hexahedron (qyoob), or for any other shape that it happens to work for (not all of them, by any means, because i have tried to do many of them). everything else that you say about it is just QBS, I'm sorry to say. being that they *are* the LCDs, as so-called by Bucky, there is just no way to make them any smaller, and still have only one shape be produced; there is some thing fundamentally wrong with the dyscussion, here, taht I don't think any one on the list would be willing to dyspute (that there's not some thing "fiunny" about it, that has to be resolved for any further, meaningful dyscussion -- that's not a joke, Zube .-) thus quoth: Look, I have said this many times, no efficiency, ratios,symmetries, strength or any other attributes of any particular solid is relevant. LOOK AT EACH SHAPE AS A INDIVIDUAL , ONLY LOOKING FOR A SURFACE AREA OF EACH ONE NO OTHER ATTRIBUTES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED JUST THE SIZE OF A INDIVIDUAL SHAPE COMPARED TO ANY SHAPE IN THAT STRUCTURE. Unit a (shape)a tet. yes it has to fill space in all directions as any conventual wall would. Smooth walls it does not matter if they are squved, tilted, or standing perpendicular, like a cube or a rec.solid, parralleploid,rhomb. and so on. The little thing have to be able to attache to other little things, what ever that means. It is not required to build anything in particular it is up to you what and how you choose to do it. There are no restrictions other than the edge length. You can newer derive the (QT). from a reg.tet. because there is no one side on that solid, which would have even a fractional portion of a equilateral tri. That is, if QT is same as DC double corner. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 19:16:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Louvre Pyramid (was: spherical stuctural element) Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ernie, What is the basic design of the Louvre Pyramid? Is it a combination of tetrahedra & octahedra (octet truss), just irregular tetrahedra, or what? I've never been able to figure it out. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 5:30 PM Subject: Louvre Pyramid (was: spherical stuctural element) > From: jmr > Date: 2003.05.17.19.26 > > Ernie wrote: > > > Very nice. Are La Geode triangles Glass or plastic? > > PEI pyramid photo also very nice - > > http://www.ingisworld.de/galerie/paris/par30.htm > > There are some more photos of the Louvre pyramid at > my Web site: http://www.looknfeel.com/louvre/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 19:59:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Minnesota Home Domes for sale ????? Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com Comments: cc: Lisa_M_Landro@eFunds.Com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa, I don't know if this will help, but here is my list of domes in Minnesota: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-Minnesota.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 7:49 AM Subject: Minnesota Home Domes for sale ????? > From: jmr > Date: 2003.05.17.09.48 > > Lisa M Landro has emailed me privately, with a question for > the DomeHome List. If you respond to her message, don't > forget to include her email address, as she is not a List > subscriber. > > jmr > > From: Lisa_M_Landro@eFunds.Com > Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:42:36 -0500 > To: rowley@looknfeel.com > Subject: Minnesota Home Domes for sale ????? > > Would you be aware of a listings for Dome Homes for Sale in > Minnesota ? one that is current anyways. > > Lisa Landro/Sales Support > Access Cash International / Efunds Corporation > 7805 Hudson Road STE # 150 > Woodbury, Minnesota 55125 > 800-723-2274 press # 1 and dial ext. # 2618 (toll free) > 651-361-2618 > 651-361-2753 (fax) > lisa_m_landro@efunds.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:24:07 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable You quince,=20 You're letting your id, child come through a bit too much here. Please calm down and try again. Chaque'un voit midi de sa porte, sabes? pancho El 18/5/03 12:47 am, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escribi=F3= : > [was, Re: dome math; does *any* one know what Zube is trying to say?] >=20 > don't take it as some awfully barbaric insult, every God-am time, > just because I'm trying to inject some humor > into this endless effort of communicating in a half of a language (Englis= h), > your Zubeness. (however, > for more fun, you could check-out Korbyzki's "E-prime," > which tries to make a virtue out of a recent (or older) immigrant's Pidgi= n > efforts -- > what a joke, taht it was actually taken seriously for decades !-) >=20 > I will just invite *any* one else on the list to say, > what in Hell you are supposed to mean by what you typed; > I cannot. it really seems to be quite evasive, as to any definition > that we might be able to pin-down. > it's just fine, for you to believe taht everyone knows what you mean, > but > no-one else has actually attempted to "talk it back to you," > as I have. go & check the backlog, and see that that is quite so, > dood. anyway, > no-one has yet seen taht there is *any* thing new in it, > that is not to be found in the subject of crystallography > -- even if that has its own, peculiar jargon. >=20 > as for your say-soes about teh "QTs" (quadrirect.tatrah.), > you have to realize that the division of the tetrahedron gives a differen= t > one, > than doing it to the hexahedron (qyoob), or for any other shape > that it happens to work for (not all of them, by any means, because > i have tried to do many of them). everything else that you say about it > is just QBS, I'm sorry to say. being that they *are* the LCDs, > as so-called by Bucky, there is just no way to make them any smaller, and > still have only one shape be produced; > there is some thing fundamentally wrong with the dyscussion, here, > taht I don't think any one on the list would be willing to dyspute > (that there's not some thing "fiunny" about it, > that has to be resolved for any further, meaningful dyscussion -- > that's not a joke, Zube .-) >=20 > thus quoth: > Look, I have said this many times, no efficiency, > ratios,symmetries, strength or any other attributes of > any particular solid is relevant. LOOK AT EACH SHAPE > AS A INDIVIDUAL , ONLY LOOKING FOR A SURFACE AREA OF > EACH ONE NO OTHER ATTRIBUTES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED JUST > THE SIZE OF A INDIVIDUAL SHAPE COMPARED TO ANY SHAPE > IN THAT STRUCTURE. >=20 > Unit a (shape)a tet. yes it has to fill space in all > directions as any conventual wall would. Smooth walls > it does not matter if they are squved, tilted, or > standing perpendicular, like a cube or a rec.solid, > parralleploid,rhomb. and so on. >=20 > The little thing have to be able to attache to other > little things, what ever that means. >=20 > It is not required to build anything in particular it > is up to you what and how you choose to do it. There > are no restrictions other than the edge length. >=20 > You can newer derive the (QT). from a reg.tet. because > there is no one side on that solid, which would have > even a fractional portion of a equilateral tri. That > is, if QT is same as DC double corner. >=20 >=20 > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 16:27:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: Louvre Pyramid (was: spherical stuctural element) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Ernie, > > What is the basic design of the Louvre Pyramid? Is > it a combination of > tetrahedra & octahedra (octet truss), just irregular > tetrahedra, or what? > I've never been able to figure it out. Hi Joe. I belive that the Louvre pyramid is a identical replica of the Great pyramid of Giza, just somewhat smaller. The tilts of it' walls among those three so called true pyramids is between 51 and 54 deg. Those are the edges of a reg,tet. aproximatelly. It is strange because some time ago I have recognize that the octane contains the same angle of tilts. So does the sand pile I have made from a table salt. It is plausible that the sand pile structure was finally recognized and used in a pyramid building, where we know that previous pyramids were either to steep or to shallow. In Japan they considering to build a largest building in the world, this building is virtually a city it's size is to be 55 Egyptians pyramid. It was all octet truss. frank > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "The DomeHome List" > > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 5:30 PM > Subject: Louvre Pyramid (was: spherical stuctural > element) > > > > From: jmr > > Date: 2003.05.17.19.26 > > > > Ernie wrote: > > > > > Very nice. Are La Geode triangles Glass or > plastic? > > > PEI pyramid photo also very nice - > > > http://www.ingisworld.de/galerie/paris/par30.htm > > > > There are some more photos of the Louvre pyramid > at > > my Web site: http://www.looknfeel.com/louvre/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:25:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: geodesic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > [was, Re: dome math; does *any* one know what Zube > is trying to say?] > > don't take it as some awfully barbaric insult, every > God-am time, OK, sometime it is hard to distinqush between funny and insult. > just because I'm trying to inject some humor > into this endless effort of communicating in a half > of a language (English), > your Zubeness. (however, > for more fun, you could check-out Korbyzki's > "E-prime," > which tries to make a virtue out of a recent (or > older) immigrant's Pidgin > efforts -- > what a joke, taht it was actually taken seriously > for decades !-) The difference is, that my subject is conveyed wrong by me,it is not clear so it won't be taken seriously even for a moment, which is understandable. > I will just invite *any* one else on the list to > say, > what in Hell you are supposed to mean by what you > typed; > I cannot. it really seems to be quite evasive, as > to any definition > that we might be able to pin-down. > it's just fine, for you to believe that > everyone knows what you mean, > but > no-one else has actually attempted to "talk it back > to you," > as I have. That is true Q, and I have thanked you for it. I do appreciate your as others responses. But I'm exhausted as I know everyone else is to. go & check the backlog, and see that > that is quite so, > dood. anyway, > no-one has yet seen that there is *any* thing new in > it, > that is not to be found in the subject of > crystallography > -- even if that has its own, peculiar jargon. I know that one can be politically, incorrect,historically incorrect, morally inccorect but to be mathematically incorrect when I always produce the same true answer as any body else does, it just does not seems right. > as for your say-soes about teh "QTs" > (quadrirect.tatrah.), > you have to realize that the division of the > tetrahedron gives a different > one, > than doing it to the hexahedron (qyoob), or for any > other shape > that it happens to work for (not all of them, by any > means, because > i have tried to do many of them). everything else > that you say about it > is just QBS, I'm sorry to say. being that they > *are* the LCDs, > as so-called by Bucky, there is just no way to make > them any smaller, and > still have only one shape be produced; I can determine the size of all tets. the same way as I determine which of my shape in my set are the shapes of the smallest surface area. Octane is that shape, now if you bring any shape from your own hierarchy and I mean any tet. and it's shortes edge is the same as the shortest edge of a octane, than any shape would have larger surface. I have proved to you from the example of the triangles under the arc. I'm exhausted and I can not do any better and I know you have tried your best, but because our unclarity is the only sure thing, I need to be proven wrong in order to accept that the triangle is not a 1/2 of a whole and that the tet.is not 1/3 of a whole or that there is a shape which can not be reduced any further to produce a smaller shape if the limit is set for it's shortest edge. I will get the message around, My exhibit is just about ready, so this puzzle will be either solved or proven wrong but it be everywhere. > there is some thing fundamentally wrong with the > dyscussion, here, > that I don't think any one on the list would be > willing to dispute I do agree, but you have to understand that it eventually will clear in time, until then I just need to do what I'm doing. > (that there's not some thing "fiunny" about it, > that has to be resolved for any further, meaningful > discussion -- > that's not a joke, Zube .-) You are right not between us, because me and you we really did try that is nothing to blame no one, but I can not throw away my intuition, calculations, and my set, where I know it is not understud correctly. frank > thus quoth: > Look, I have said this many times, no efficiency, > ratios,symmetries, strength or any other attributes > of > any particular solid is relevant. LOOK AT EACH SHAPE > AS A INDIVIDUAL , ONLY LOOKING FOR A SURFACE AREA OF > EACH ONE NO OTHER ATTRIBUTES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED > JUST > THE SIZE OF A INDIVIDUAL SHAPE COMPARED TO ANY SHAPE > IN THAT STRUCTURE. > > Unit a (shape)a tet. yes it has to fill space in all > directions as any conventual wall would. Smooth > walls > it does not matter if they are squved, tilted, or > standing perpendicular, like a cube or a rec.solid, > parralleploid,rhomb. and so on. > > The little thing have to be able to attache to other > little things, what ever that means. > > It is not required to build anything in particular > it > is up to you what and how you choose to do it. There > are no restrictions other than the edge length. > > You can newer derive the (QT). from a reg.tet. > because > there is no one side on that solid, which would have > even a fractional portion of a equilateral tri. That > is, if QT is same as DC double corner. > > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:21:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: HGTV DOME 10PM EST Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HGTV Extreme Homes series, Episode EXT-1002 3 metal strut domes skinned with sheet metal: 1 spherical dome 30' in diameter connected to 1 5/8 dome 30' diam A separate smaller (12'diam?) observation deck dome On several acres owned by a Mr Ryland Fleet Located in countryside outside of Richmond, VA, USA Local neighbors call it "The Mothership" -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:05 PM Subject: re: HGTV DOME 10PM EST > From: "Cat" > Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 22:53:37 -0400 > > The dome itself was bizarre - no windows, the > skin made of metal sheets bolted together and > what neighbors refer to as "the mother ship." (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:08:41 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Six-fold Equi-tendoned tensegrity prism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: WWW.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x6prism.html Here's pictures of a model I just built. In Geodesic Math, Kenner "proves" a six-fold equi-tendoned tensegrity prism is impossible to build which is true under his assumptions. But if instead of connecting adjacent struts with side tendons, one skips a strut, six-fold and higher versions of equi-tendoned prisms are possible. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:16:33 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: comment request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So I can't think of much to say about this article. I looked over the abstract. It's of pretty ancillary interest to me being just a humble student of tensegrity design. I do like Linux for the economical tools it provides though I can't work up the enthusiasm to work through long academic works on its place in society or whatever. I can understand some people might be interested and that such studies are useful somehow. If I were still an economics grad student I might be tempted. Bob Gerardo Garcia wrote: >> From: Bob Burkhardt >> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: comment request >> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:18:45 -0400 > > > this link seems to work. > > http://www-edocs.unimaas.nl/files/mer00018.pdf > > sorry for minimanifesto, maybe nanomanifesto? > > Gerardo García > Tampìco, México > > >> I got a 404 error when I tried the first link. >> "The requested URL /rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf was not found on this >> server." >> >> >> Only the "acknowledgements" page of my PDF gets into Linux (see also >> http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/acknowledge.html). I >> wouldn't call the PDF a mini-manifesto for FSF. I found Linux/GNU very >> handy because it provided the high-quality tools I needed for free. >> >> Bob >> >> >> Gerardo Garcia wrote: >> >>> on three links. I hope Bob Burkhardt (whose pdf is --aside from the >>> math >>> that I don't understand-- a FSF mini-manifesto) is interested in the >>> "dynamics of collective invention" and could make a comment on the >>> math of >>> this link, for the people that would like to see the linux fever on all >>> levels of the net >>> >>> The Dynamics of Collective Invention >>> >>> This paper was prepared by Robin Cowan and Nicolas Jonard for the >>> Maastricht >>> Economic Research Institute on Innovation and >>> Technology (MERIT). The authors develop a "formal model that accounts >>> for >>> the dynamics of knowledge and collective invention, and examine how the >>> architecture of the network of agents influences patterns and rate of >>> innovation." A copy of the paper is available at: >>> >>> http://meritbbs.unimaas.nl/rmpdf/2000/rm2000_018.pdf >>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:48:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Six-fold Equi-tendoned tensegrity prism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Bob, All I can see besides text is black squares. My browser (MS Internet Explorer 6.0) can't handle .png files--whatever that is. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Burkhardt" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:08 AM Subject: Six-fold Equi-tendoned tensegrity prism > Ref: WWW.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x6prism.html > > Here's pictures of a model I just built. In Geodesic Math, Kenner > "proves" a six-fold > equi-tendoned tensegrity prism is impossible to build which is true > under his assumptions. > But if instead of connecting adjacent struts with side tendons, one > skips a strut, six-fold and > higher versions of equi-tendoned prisms are possible. > > Bob > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:11:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: HGTV Dome? Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, No. That's a completely different one built at a different time & location. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 8:13 PM Subject: HGTV Dome? > From: "spider" > Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:36:05 -0400 (SA Western Standard Time) > > http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/remodeling/article/0,1797,HGTV_3659_1369275,00.html > > Is this the dome? > > Jim Sparks > Director > Tropical Software Ltd > P.O. Box 2170 > Gros Islet, St. Lucia > 1-758-452-8100 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:12:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerardo, could you explain what connection you are drawing between amphetamine (speed) and Lysergic Acid (LSD, a psychedelic)? Maybe it would help us understand why you think an apology is necessary or appropriate? Thanks, David On Friday, May 16, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Gerardo Garcia wrote: > Could Quincy write the apology of speed? (when associated with LSD, not > fat) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:01:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Alvin E Miller Comments: To: "Hunter, Spencer W" Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spencer, I found out that Alvin E Miller was the Building Editor for Better Homes = & Gardens magazine in 1957. He co-wrote an article for the BH&G about = Bucky & domes (June 1957, pp 72-7). He was the VP in Bucky's short-lived = (Feb-Nov 1957) company, Plydomes, Inc. By 1960 he was the lead = executive for Pease Woodworking Co, the company that built Bucky's dome = home in Carbondale, IL. By 1985 he was a professor at the University of = Arizona where he taught a course, "Industrialization in Architecture", & = developed an autonomous dome home called Alpha 1 which was supposed to = be marketed by his company, World Geodesics, Inc. (See the article in = Automation in Housing & Manufactured Home Dealer (June 1985, pp 1, = 14-15). He died around 1989. For further info see: The Artifacts of R Buckminster Fuller, Vol 3, pp 363-69, 386-89, 403-4 The Artifacts of R Buckminster Fuller, Vol 4, pp 32-5 The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller, figs 335-47 The Geodesic Works of Richard Buckminster Fuller, 1948-68, Vol 1, pp = 366-72 The Geodesic Works of Richard Buckminster Fuller, 1948-68, Vol 2, figs = 3.37 (a-d), 3.42a, 3.43 The Mind's Eye of BF, pp 56-7 Trimtab (Buckminster Fuller Institute newsletter), Summer 1985 -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:40:39 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Six-fold Equi-tendoned tensegrity prism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How awful. I tried it on my IE 5.5 and I see what you mean. Microsoft is still in the dark ages. PNG stands for portable network graphic and I think was developed as a gif substitute. I'll try dropping back to JPG and resend the link when I've fixed it. Thanks. Bob Joe S Moore wrote: >Hey Bob, > >All I can see besides text is black squares. My browser (MS Internet >Explorer 6.0) can't handle .png files--whatever that is. > >-------------------------------------------- >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info >------------------------------------------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Burkhardt" >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >To: >Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:08 AM >Subject: Six-fold Equi-tendoned tensegrity prism > > > > >>Ref: WWW.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x6prism.html >> >>Here's pictures of a model I just built. In Geodesic Math, Kenner >>"proves" a six-fold >>equi-tendoned tensegrity prism is impossible to build which is true >>under his assumptions. >>But if instead of connecting adjacent struts with side tendons, one >>skips a strut, six-fold and >>higher versions of equi-tendoned prisms are possible. >> >>Bob >> >> >> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:10:32 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Six-fold Equi-tendoned tensegrity prism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: WWW.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x6prism.html I fixed this. The JPG files are about the same size or a little smaller than the indexed PNG files I was using, so there was no real reason for me to go that route anyway. Enjoy. Thanks again Joe. Bob Joe S Moore wrote: >Hey Bob, > >All I can see besides text is black squares. My browser (MS Internet >Explorer 6.0) can't handle .png files--whatever that is. > >-------------------------------------------- >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info >------------------------------------------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Burkhardt" >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >To: >Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:08 AM >Subject: Six-fold Equi-tendoned tensegrity prism > > > > >>Ref: WWW.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x6prism.html >> >>Here's pictures of a model I just built. In Geodesic Math, Kenner >>"proves" a six-fold >>equi-tendoned tensegrity prism is impossible to build which is true >>under his assumptions. >>But if instead of connecting adjacent struts with side tendons, one >>skips a strut, six-fold and >>higher versions of equi-tendoned prisms are possible. >> >>Bob >> >> >> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:40:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: How to list a dome in your listing? Comments: To: KEN & SHANNON REED Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ken & Shannon, Send me the following details (if known) about your dome & I'll include = them in my next update (in a month or 2--I hope): City State Country Diameter (s) [if more than 1] Year (s) built Name of Manufacturer--if known (or builder if self-built) Address Type of Use (residential, etc) Name to use (for example "Reed Residence") Any other info that might be useful such as "Visitors Welcome", or "See = our website", etc. Especially valuable would be if your dome had = survived a natural disaster, such as earthquake, tornado, hurricane, = etc. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: KEN & SHANNON REED=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:23 PM Subject: How to list a dome in your listing? I just saw your web sight from the Dome-Home news group and was = wondering how I might get my Dome Home added to your list? Thank you. Ken and Shannon Reed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:48:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome inNorthernCalifornia Comments: To: Leifur Thor Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Liefur, See http://buckminster.info/Index/Ga-Gd.htm (scroll down to "Garden") Bucky also sometimes called them "Skybreak" domes; see http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-Skybreaks.htm [I'm sure I'll think of more after I click on "Send"] -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leifur Thor" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 12:09 AM Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome inNorthernCalifornia > Hi Joe, > > I mean the domes that are usually displayed as clear shells, with a home > (not attached to the dome) on the inside. > > I'm working on a school that will be a series of domes of a design never > seen before of a similar look to the garden of edens;-) > > Aloha, > > Leifur Thor > ____________________________ > Design Scientist > 415-681-3519 > www.leifthor.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:53:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome inNorthernCalifornia In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks Joe for getting back to me. Do you have a better slide of the image of the dome in the middle of the three images at the top of the skybreaks page? It looks very similar to what the school we're building will look like. Also, I can't tell if it's real or not. If so, do you know where it is? Thanks, Leif > From: Joe S Moore > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:48:13 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome > inNorthernCalifornia > > Liefur, > > See http://buckminster.info/Index/Ga-Gd.htm (scroll down to "Garden") > > Bucky also sometimes called them "Skybreak" domes; see > http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-Skybreaks.htm > > [I'm sure I'll think of more after I click on "Send"] > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leifur Thor" > To: "Joe S Moore" > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 12:09 AM > Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome > inNorthernCalifornia > > >> Hi Joe, >> >> I mean the domes that are usually displayed as clear shells, with a home >> (not attached to the dome) on the inside. >> >> I'm working on a school that will be a series of domes of a design never >> seen before of a similar look to the garden of edens;-) >> >> Aloha, >> >> Leifur Thor >> ____________________________ >> Design Scientist >> 415-681-3519 >> www.leifthor.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:42:14 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: gimme temporary shelter Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Did you see this article?? http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/18/magazine/18PROBLEM.html Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:17:50 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: linda Subject: Re: How to list a dome in your listing? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, Here is a dome for your list. Veneta Oregon Lane County 50' diameter on full lower level and 2' riser wall 2001 Oregon Dome, Inc. 25331 Jeans Road Offices on lower level, commercial 3 bedroom, 2-1/2 bath for residence on main and loft ODI in Veneta Visitors Welcome M-F 9-4, evenings and weekends by appointment See our web site: www.domes.com February 2002 jet stream dropped down for a visit, (90 mph) no damage, not even a shingle missing. We have regular small earthquakes in Oregon along the coast and in the Willamette Valley. -----Original Message----- From: Joe S Moore Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 1:38 AM Subject: Re: How to list a dome in your listing? >Ken & Shannon, > >Send me the following details (if known) about your dome & I'll include them in my next update (in a month or 2--I hope): > >City >State >Country >Diameter (s) [if more than 1] >Year (s) built >Name of Manufacturer--if known (or builder if self-built) >Address >Type of Use (residential, etc) >Name to use (for example "Reed Residence") >Any other info that might be useful such as "Visitors Welcome", or "See our website", etc. Especially valuable would be if your dome had survived a natural disaster, such as earthquake, tornado, hurricane, etc. > >-------------------------------------------- >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info >------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: KEN & SHANNON REED > To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:23 PM > Subject: How to list a dome in your listing? > > > I just saw your web sight from the Dome-Home news group and was wondering how I might get my Dome Home added to your list? > > Thank you. > > Ken and Shannon Reed > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:14:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome inNorthernCalifornia Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leifur, Can't at the moment remember where I found that pic, but check out Czech site http://csnmt.fme.vutbr.cz/csnmt/images/ASM-Ohio.jpg People who designed it http://www.synergeticsinc.com/bodytext/asm.htm ASM's website http://www.asm-intl.org/Content/NavigationMenu/AboutASM/MaterialsPark/MaterialsPark.htm ASM's engravers (Awards, etc) http://www.midwestengraving.com/images/MVC-001F.jpg You may also be interested in this also: http://www.bfi.org/slideshtml/imag0092.htm RBF's 31 Great Circle (another name for Garden of Eden) model at Black Mountain College (BFI slide collection) -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leifur Thor" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 7:53 AM Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome inNorthernCalifornia > Thanks Joe for getting back to me. Do you have a better slide of the image > of the dome in the middle of the three images at the top of the skybreaks > page? It looks very similar to what the school we're building will look > like. > > Also, I can't tell if it's real or not. If so, do you know where it is? > > Thanks, > > Leif > (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:17:36 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: gimme temporary shelter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, One has to be a subscriber to view articles. Cut & paste. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 8:42 AM Subject: gimme temporary shelter > Did you see this article?? > > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/18/magazine/18PROBLEM.html > > Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:30:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: metal domes Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William, See http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-E.htm (scroll down to "England"). Look for the other UK countries under their name (Wales, Scotland, etc). Hope this helps. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 6:16 PM Subject: re: metal domes > From: William Welch > Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:33:19 +0100 > > Hello > > I am hoping someone might have a good suggestion for where > I could find Domes for sale in the UK > William. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:40:07 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Journalist, from Spain Comments: To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F2nica_L=F3pez?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Monica, A few years ago the R Buckminster Fuller Estate or his daughter--I'm not = sure exactly who--(you may contact them through the BFI at = http://www.bfi.org/) sold most of the Buckminster Fuller Archives to = Stanford University; see=20 http://dynaweb.oac.cdlib.org/dynaweb/ead/stanford/mss/m1090/ -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M=F2nica L=F3pez=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 7:30 AM Subject: Journalist, from Spain I'm an spanish journalist and I write you from a television = company in Spain. We are prepearing a documentary about Salvador Dal=ED = and his relation with science.=20 As he used to say, the geodesic dome that covers the museum kept = the essence of his thoughts (many based on science). It was made by = Pi=F1ero (you already explain it at your website), but Dal=ED was = interested on that because of Buckminster Fuller, and he met him for = several times. Well, we are interested to reconstruct in detail their = relation, so I would like to know if at the institut, you keep any = documentation (letters, photographs, audiovisual material ...) and if = there is anyone alive that worked with Mr. Fuller and that might have = been in this encounters. Can your provide me with this material and information? If not, = can you tell me to whom I should address? Thank you very much for your help. Best from Barcelona M=F2nica L=F3pez=20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = - - - - - - - - - - -=20 AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: La informaci=F3n contenida en este = correo electr=F3nico y en sus anexos est=E1 dirigida al destinatario = =FAnica y exclusivamente, y puede contener informaci=F3n privada, = confidencial y no susceptible de difusi=F3n p=FAblica. Si el lector de = este mensaje no es destinatario, o un empleado o agente responsable de = entregar el mensaje a dicho destinatario, debe tener en cuenta que = cualquier uso -incluyendo fijaci=F3n, reproducci=F3n, distribuci=F3n, = comunicaci=F3n p=FAblica, modificaci=F3n o transformaci=F3n de esta = comunicaci=F3n-, est=E1 terminantemente prohibido. Si ha recibido esta = comunicaci=F3n por error, le rogamos nos informe inmediatamente = respondiendo al remitente y eliminando el documento original sin = mantener copia alguna.=20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = - - - - - - - - - - -=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 05:12:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Fwd: NYTimes.com Article: Gimme Temporary Shelter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Gimme Temporary Shelter > > May 18, 2003 > By SETH STEVENSON > > After smart bombs needlepointed down onto government > buildings in Baghdad, it became quite clear that our > skill > at destruction has reached unrivaled heights. At the same > time, our skill at reconstruction remains rudimentary at > best. A post-conflict (or post-disaster) refugee -- if he > receives U.N. attention -- may be given only a blue > plastic > sheet, about 13 feet by 16 feet, which is meant to serve > as > a home. An entire family may live under one of these > sheets > for weeks, or months. > > A handful of architects have worked to improve this > approach and to provide better housing for the > temporarily > displaced. Of the few major names toiling in this rather > unsexy niche, Shigeru Ban, from Japan, is perhaps the > biggest star. He gained widespread notice for the ''paper > log houses'' he built in 1995, after a massive earthquake > hit Kobe and left thousands homeless. The logs were > vertical cardboard tubes -- supersize versions of the > thing > you're left with when you've used the last paper towel. > The > tubes are structurally strong (he threads iron rods > through > a few key points to connect them), and the cardboard can > be > dipped in polyurethane for waterproofing (waterproof > sponge > seals the cracks). Ban also built paper houses in Rwanda > and Turkey, where he stuffed his tubes with crumpled > paper, > for insulation. His foundations are plastic beer cases > filled with sandbags. It's an ingeniously low-impact > solution: the tubes themselves are available locally all > across the world, can be easily formed from recycled > paper > if they aren't already lying around and are again > entirely > recyclable when the shelter is torn down. > > The other big name in emergency shelter -- an Iranian > named > Nader Khalili -- works with the shell structure of domes, > vaults and apses. Khalili's work with temporary shelter > has > its roots on the face of the moon. In the mid-1980's, > Khalili was one of a group of architects and engineers > invited by NASA to offer new ideas for building lunar > bases. Naming his technique Superadobe, Khalili suggested > that astronauts carry up empty sacks, pack them full of > lunar dust and then Velcro them together into a climbing, > narrowing spiral. The end shape would look like a child's > stacking-rings toy. When Khalili brought Superadobe back > down to earth (he now runs an institute in California > teaching the technique), he switched to standard sandbags > -- or alternatively, long hollow tubes pumped full of > sand. > The idea is that your base material, be it moon dust or > just plain dirt, is almost always right under your feet, > wherever you are. > > While Velcro might work for the moon, where there's no > threat of hurricanes, on earth Khalili decided that > four-point barbed wire was the best (and cheapest) > option. > The barbs act as a mortar between sandbag layers and grip > with a tensile strength good enough to pass California > seismic codes. The shelter's parabolic dome shape > deflects > rain and snow, its dirt walls provide excellent > insulation > and the form adapts to virtually any scale, from hut to > warehouse. > > ''Sandbags and barbed-wire,'' Khalili says. ''The > materials > of war now used as shelter.'' In a post-conflict zone, he > theorizes, the homeless could convert a battle's detritus > into a new neighborhood. He even envisions some > therapeutic > value in the act. Refugees would require a bit of > training > and perhaps a few weeks' worth of labor. > > Younger architects have followed in the idealistic > footsteps of Ban and Khalili. Architecture for Humanity, > a > nonprofit group run by Cameron Sinclair, 29, has held > design competitions for temporary shelters and mobile > medical clinics. Mike Lawless, a British architect, with > his firm, LA Architects, and the help of engineer Mark > Whitby, came up with a plan to use bombed-out rubble as a > building material. Packed into gabions, those wire cages > you sometimes see shoring up a highway embankment, chunks > of rubble could replace a toppled wall. By allowing > families to stay in place, instead of shuttling off to a > camp, the scheme may also prevent looting and squatting. > > A second entry in Sinclair's contest came from the > TechnoCraft group in Japan. It proposes inflating a large > hemp tarp into a bubble shape, then spraying it with > liquid > concrete or other hardening agents. It's a quick, cheap > way > to form a sturdy dome shell. > > One class at Harvard's Graduate School of Design has > stripped shelter to its most basic form -- the clothes we > wear on our backs. Toshiko Mori, chairwoman of the > school's > architecture department, has been teaching a course > called > Weaving Material and Habitation. The class has been > experimenting with Lycra-spandex type materials that can > stretch out to four times their original size. A poncho > or > sweater might expand into a 7-foot-by-4-foot tarp. > > Of course, all these ideas sound wonderful in concept. > And > the designers are heartbreakingly well intentioned. Yet > with rare exceptions, these shelters almost never end up > stretching over the head of a needy refugee. When I asked > U.N. workers why all these concepts remain drawings on a > shelf, instead of real improvements in refugee lives, the > general response I got equated to: ''Uh-huh, sounds nice. > We use tents.'' > > Indeed, thousands of tents. The U.N. High Commissioner > for > Refugees had stockpiled something near 100,000 tents in > preparation for a post-conflict Iraq. As U.N workers see > it, a crisis isn't time for cutesy theories, or lovely > parabolic arches. It's a time for a quick, easy, on-hand > solution that fits any situation. It's a time for tried, > true and tested. In short, it's a time for tents. And > maybe > not even for that. Often, it's a time for a blue plastic > sheet you prop up with a pair of sticks. Increasingly, > the > U.N. hands these out in lieu of tents. > > The architects argue that architecture can offer better > options, but the U.N. guys rarely get that far in the > conversation. They're too busy making calculations: > canvas, > double-fly ridge tents cost $80; you can fit 350 of them, > rolled up, on a Boeing 737; plastic sheets cost $6 apiece > and use almost no space at all. > > Several industrial designers have come up with prefab > shelters for use in disasters. These are mass-produced, > quick-assembly huts. One of the most promising models, > called the Global Village Shelter, uses > corrugated-cardboard walls, goes from zero to inhabitable > in 15 to 20 minutes and costs $400. But it still won't > turn > many heads at the U.N. It's five times the price of a > tent. > Perhaps more important, the U.N. guys fear that the first > time 200,000 families need instant shelter, such prefab > units won't arrive on time and will take longer than > advertised to assemble. That would mean first setting up > a > tent camp, then switching to a prefab camp after a day or > two -- the U.N. hates multiple moves, as refugees relive > the trauma of displacement. In Montenegro, one U.N. > worker > told me, they used prefab units. When the fixtures broke, > they couldn't be replaced locally, and the whole thing > had > to be scrapped. Tents have been around for thousands of > years, and the U.N. has used them since it first started > handling refugees in post-World War II Germany. > Institutional inertia is a powerful force. > > ''The U.N. is crying out for new options,'' Cameron > Sinclair says. ''They can't live with risk, in such > magnitudes of disaster, so they say, 'Let's buy tents.' > But > architects are problem solvers. The U.N. has actually > been > inspired by some of the designs from Architecture for > Humanity, but the red tape gets in the way.'' > > That term -- ''red tape'' -- popped up in nearly every > conversation I had with architects, including Nader > Khalili, who has spent more than a decade meeting with > the > U.N., offering proposals and seeing almost nothing come > of > them. Shigeru Ban spent several years as a U.N. > consultant > but eventually left and now runs his own nongovernmental > organization, the Voluntary Architects Network. He first > proposed his paper houses in Rwanda because refugees were > cutting down trees to build shelters and whole forests > were > being lost. But Ban says the U.N. told him that his > houses > were ''too nice.'' ''The refugees would stay longer, > instead of returning home,'' he said. ''I was told I > couldn't provide them something too good.'' One U.N. > worker > I spoke with readily admitted this: ''We don't really > want > to do better than tents for refugees,'' he said. ''If you > improve on what they had before, there's less incentive > to > leave a host country and go back home.'' Here's the sad > truth: the kind of prefab, fully plumbed and wired hut we > might provide for a hurricane victim in Florida would be > so > unimaginably more luxurious than what a Rwandan refugee > had > ever known that it would, in fact, be culturally > inappropriate -- an uncomfortable reality in itself. > > > > > Seth Stevenson last wrote for the magazine about the > sneaker wars. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/18/magazine/18PROBLEM.html?ex=1054605390&ei=1&en=dc40bb80cce049f9 > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:28:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: quote of the day Comments: To: synergeo@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Stress-producing metaphysical gas stretches and strains nature to yield into social-evolution conformations such as the gas-filled plastic tube of Universe. There is an a priori universal law in the controlled complexity that tolerates man's pressurized nonsense, as nature permits each day's seemingly new Universe of semifamiliarities, semiwonders, and semimystery, what humans might think of as history unfolding on this little planet. There is the Game of Cosmic History, in which Universe goes on approximately unaware of human nonsense while accommodating its omnilocal game- playing. Flies have their game. Mosquitoes have their game. Microbes have their game. Lion cubs have their game. Whatever games they may be playing, positive or negative, realistic or make-believe, all the games are fail-safe, alternate circuits, omniconsequential to eternally regenerative Universe integrity. It's all permitted. It all belongs." RBF __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:57:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: any domes near San Diego? Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MM, Here's my tentative list of domes in California: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-California.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 4:30 AM Subject: any domes near San Diego? > From: murdoch > Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:06:14 -0700 > > I would like to be able to see a dome for myself, > whether from the outside or inside. Does anyone > have one they could show me, or recommend an > address where I could see one from the outside? > > Sincerely, > > MM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:55:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: quote of the day In-Reply-To: <20030522142846.42586.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit here here... > From: Dick Fischbeck > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:28:46 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: quote of the day > > "Stress-producing metaphysical gas stretches and strains > nature to yield into social-evolution conformations such as > the gas-filled plastic tube of Universe. There is an a > priori universal law in the controlled complexity that > tolerates man's pressurized nonsense, as nature permits > each day's seemingly new Universe of semifamiliarities, > semiwonders, and semimystery, what humans might think of as > history unfolding on this little planet. There is the Game > of Cosmic History, in which Universe goes on approximately > unaware of human nonsense while accommodating its omnilocal > game- playing. Flies have their game. Mosquitoes have their > game. Microbes have their game. Lion cubs have their game. > Whatever games they may be playing, positive or negative, > realistic or make-believe, all the games are fail-safe, > alternate circuits, omniconsequential to eternally > regenerative Universe integrity. It's all permitted. It all > belongs." RBF > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:30:30 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: David Lane >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: dome math >Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:12:11 -0700 Quincy, told somebody in this list: "you must be on speed" (or something like that). That made me think that Quincy (apparently living in California, and apparently having lived the 60s and 70s being older than 10) should have witnessed more than one story about people swallowing lsd often associated with speed. I am not sure but "purple haze" (as in the Hendrix song) could have been one of those. Sometimes people went crazy with the combination but surely the people (even under medical reciping) fighting overweight with amphetamines had very often a worse experience. I would not like to opinionate Quincy (an easy task) but amphetamine was just an "angle" modifier in a somewhat metaphysical age devoid of devices, except for the water pipes and the like. a joke is a joke is a joke. should I apologize for the lack (Quincy is the guilty one) of apologies? Gerardo García Tampico, México >Gerardo, could you explain what connection you are drawing between >amphetamine (speed) and Lysergic Acid (LSD, a psychedelic)? > >Maybe it would help us understand why you think an apology is necessary >or appropriate? > >Thanks, >David > >On Friday, May 16, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Gerardo Garcia wrote: >>Could Quincy write the apology of speed? (when associated with LSD, not >>fat) _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:43:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: quote of the day Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Leifur Thor >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: quote of the day >Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:55:23 -0700 Hey now, thou generalists of the rubber globes, would anybody tell the name of the device mentioned here? is it a ouija or something like that? Gerardo García Tampico, México >here here... > > > From: Dick Fischbeck > > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > > Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:28:46 -0700 > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: quote of the day > > > > "Stress-producing metaphysical gas stretches and strains > > nature to yield into social-evolution conformations such as > > the gas-filled plastic tube of Universe. There is an a > > priori universal law in the controlled complexity that > > tolerates man's pressurized nonsense, as nature permits > > each day's seemingly new Universe of semifamiliarities, > > semiwonders, and semimystery, what humans might think of as > > history unfolding on this little planet. There is the Game > > of Cosmic History, in which Universe goes on approximately > > unaware of human nonsense while accommodating its omnilocal > > game- playing. Flies have their game. Mosquitoes have their > > game. Microbes have their game. Lion cubs have their game. > > Whatever games they may be playing, positive or negative, > > realistic or make-believe, all the games are fail-safe, > > alternate circuits, omniconsequential to eternally > > regenerative Universe integrity. It's all permitted. It all > > belongs." RBF > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > http://search.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:06:29 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: GeoKit Dome Comments: To: Linda Kahrs Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Linda, These people sell the type of climber you are looking for: http://www.thetoyshop.cc/toyshop/toyplayground2.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Linda Kahrs=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 11:50 AM Subject: GeoKit Dome We are interested in purchasing the dome for our schools....Please let = us know asap who we call to order and set up an account with?! Thank you. Linda Kahrs, 650-692-1669 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:30:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: More Domes Comments: To: Geoff Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geoff, You are great! My man in Mass! I'll check the spelling of that town & = input the new info, but it won't show up on my website until I upload = all the new stuff--hopefully in the next several months. I would think = cross streets might be good enough if someone wants to view a dome. And = diameter estimates are sufficient. I don't think anyone expects you to = get out there with a tape measure! You are doing a great job--keep up = the good work! (Kinda sounds like fun. Good excuse to get out & drive = around. Too bad there isn't a Dome Owners Association.) PS: With an actual street address one can zoom in with MapQuest & get a = map & color aerial photo (usually). -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Geoff=20 To: Joe S Moore=20 Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 6:41 PM Subject: More Domes Joe, I'm finding domes everywhere here in Berkshire County, Massachusetts. = One that you have listed in Pittsfield MA needs a street address. I = don't know the street number but its at the corner of Hancock Road and = Churchill Street. Can't guess at the size, but it is large, and it is = built as the central component of a mini-complex that includes = conventional rectangular (square? rhomboid?) structures. I'm also on the trail of a dome in Richmond, MA. And there's a really = wild solar dome residence under construction in Great Barrington MA that = I'm hoping to get a peek inside of. I'll email you detail on these two = when I have more information. Also, regarding your Massachusetts listing: You have a Massachusetts = town of "Bumfield" listed. Do you mean "Brimfield". Tough enough = living down a town name like Belchertown (we have one), but there is no = Bumfield here. Bums, yes. Bumfield, No. Best, Geoff ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:18:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Speed / LSD (was Re: dome math) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a little off the topic, but just following up, here, on Gerardo's response to my question about his mention of LSD in a remark stemming from Q's mention of speed (in the apparently derogatory tone). G, Thanks for the perspective. I think I now have a better understanding of where you're coming from. My interest was not in pinning down who owes an apology, only in learning about varying perspectives. My perspective is a little different than yours, but not really contrary. Since you mentioned California, I live within a few miles of San Francisco, and have seen effects of casual and clinical use of both speed and psychedelics. I believe both have a therapeutic value when properly used, and both offer the opportunity for abuse. Both are very widely used outside of California, too. I recently heard a joke that the most common girl's name in Arizona is "Crystal" (referencing a street term for a type of amphetamine). This joke probably works in a dozen US states. Speed itself (without LSD) is known, even in underground drug culture, as a killer (the hippies had a saying that Speed Kills), and as something that makes people crazy. When used heavily over time (weeks or more), speed usage usually results (not unexpectedly) in a lack of physiologically-necessary sleep. This lack of sleep, of course, is often associated with temporary psychosis (certifiable "crazyness"). My understanding is that this "amphetamine psychosis" can result in casual (street) or clinical (fat-farm) settings, usually without any help from psychedelics. Paranoia is often present, as well as delusions of grandeur or persecution. It is unfortunate that the abuse of speed is growing today, and symptomatic, I think, of a general social cognitive dissonance, necessarily resulting from our unsustainable consumption patterns. These crazy "speed freak" people are generally not safety-minded, if you know what I mean. On The Other Hand... "Psyche-delic" comes from the Greek "to see the soul," doesn't it? While I nurture an interest in many aspects of this direction of inquiry, I remain unaware of any widely known linking between psychedelic usage and psychosis in previously healthy individuals. LSD was studied by the CIA in the SF Bay Area (Stanford+) for decades and the resulting behaviors were not what was initially expected, but was not as wild or dangerous as the behaviors associated with amphetamine abuse. Intelligence sources now claim the studies (which had at one point even included unwitting guinea pigs) were dropped because the results were determined to be "not useful to intelligence objectives." Psychedelic users often report different experiences than are common (some might call them crazy), but they generally remain lucid and aware that their "experience of reality" is different than that of the interviewer (i.e. clinician), but that neither has an exclusive grasp of "what is real." That is, they technically are not "crazy." I have heard that speed has at times been added to LSD doses in order to give the impression of a stronger dose, but I haven't heard of this being associated with people "going crazy." I have also heard that the Hendrix song, "Purple Haze," referred to a type of LSD, but not that it was at all associated with speed or any lack of sanity (could be an opportunity for me to learn more?). I think the music is poetry, and as such we may never know what the artist really "meant" - that could mean he was crazy, or not. I have also heard stories of people making huge judgment errors (jumping off a building thinking they could fly is the typical urban myth) while under the influence, but sober analysis usually reveals that 1) poor judgments of this scale are much more common in general society than most people know (and their incidence does not significantly increase with psychedelic usage), and 2) the individuals involved were generally not good decision-makers in the first place. Psychedelics have, of course, played a central role in spiritual connection and generation-to-generation myth-teaching in thousands of cultures around the world, for tens of thousands of years. When treated with due respect, their use seems to be not harmful. Our society's problems with them seem to stem from our society's rules, not from the effects of the drug, itself. Thanks again for explaining what you were alluding to. I hope my perspective helps you (and others) understand some of the background of my interest in how these two topics got linked-up. Now do I owe everyone an apology for going so far off topic and "down the rabbit hole?" David On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 12:30 PM, Gerardo Garcia wrote: > should have witnessed more than one story about people swallowing lsd > often > associated with speed. I am not sure but "purple haze" (as in the > Hendrix > song) could have been one of those. Sometimes people went crazy with > the > combination but surely the people (even under medical reciping) > fighting > >> Gerardo, could you explain what connection you are drawing between >> amphetamine (speed) and Lysergic Acid (LSD, a psychedelic)? >> >> Maybe it would help us understand why you think an apology is >> necessary >> or appropriate? >> >> On Friday, May 16, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Gerardo Garcia wrote: >>> Could Quincy write the apology of speed? (when associated with LSD, >>> not >>> fat) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:29:10 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: Speed / LSD (was Re: dome math) In-Reply-To: <6083ECC0-8CE6-11D7-B11B-00039366933E@zenciti.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- David Lane wrote: A interesting thought on drugs; Where I come from consumption of mushrooms is a seasonal feast where one can buy all kind of mushrooms on the market. In that time of the year there is also lots of stomach poisoning and deadts related to mushroom consumption. Those who survive all describe a unpleasant feelings, hallucinations, wometing and all related symptoms. I have noticed that those who did go through such stage here in America describe the same poisoning as fun, cool, hallucinations as the main attraction of a halucinogenious mushroom consumption. The point is how the same simtoms of the same drug is described differently here, and totally different over there. I have newer met no one in Slovakia who did consumed poison mushrooms, survived and said it was cool and I'll try again. I guess it's all depends how one looks at thing War also has different effect on people.From the Vietnam war we have a large # of people here in the states claiming post war sindroms, of depression, a human shock which will destroy someone personality and humanity. The second world war, where all my friends parents as also mine parents went through the whole war and all it's travesties, where no one ever claimed any post war syndromes. Most people did went beck to a relatively normal life, careers and none have claimed the war was to blame for someone unsuccess. Once again the same event produced different facts. The post war syndrome then must be just a American attitude where it can not be applied globally as far what one can blaim the war for. Unless the Vietnam war was somewhat more terifiying as where all the other wars. frank > This is a little off the topic, but just following > up, here, on > Gerardo's response to my question about his mention > of LSD in a remark > stemming from Q's mention of speed (in the > apparently derogatory tone). > > G, Thanks for the perspective. I think I now have a > better > understanding of where you're coming from. My > interest was not in > pinning down who owes an apology, only in learning > about varying > perspectives. My perspective is a little different > than yours, but > not really contrary. > > Since you mentioned California, I live within a few > miles of San > Francisco, and have seen effects of casual and > clinical use of both > speed and psychedelics. I believe both have a > therapeutic value when > properly used, and both offer the opportunity for > abuse. Both are very > widely used outside of California, too. I recently > heard a joke that > the most common girl's name in Arizona is "Crystal" > (referencing a > street term for a type of amphetamine). This joke > probably works in a > dozen US states. > > Speed itself (without LSD) is known, even in > underground drug culture, > as a killer (the hippies had a saying that Speed > Kills), and as > something that makes people crazy. When used > heavily over time (weeks > or more), speed usage usually results (not > unexpectedly) in a lack of > physiologically-necessary sleep. This lack of > sleep, of course, is > often associated with temporary psychosis > (certifiable "crazyness"). > > My understanding is that this "amphetamine > psychosis" can result in > casual (street) or clinical (fat-farm) settings, > usually without any > help from psychedelics. Paranoia is often present, > as well as > delusions of grandeur or persecution. It is > unfortunate that the abuse > of speed is growing today, and symptomatic, I think, > of a general > social cognitive dissonance, necessarily resulting > from our > unsustainable consumption patterns. These crazy > "speed freak" people > are generally not safety-minded, if you know what I > mean. > > On The Other Hand... > > "Psyche-delic" comes from the Greek "to see the > soul," doesn't it? > While I nurture an interest in many aspects of this > direction of > inquiry, I remain unaware of any widely known > linking between > psychedelic usage and psychosis in previously > healthy individuals. LSD > was studied by the CIA in the SF Bay Area > (Stanford+) for decades and > the resulting behaviors were not what was initially > expected, but was > not as wild or dangerous as the behaviors associated > with amphetamine > abuse. Intelligence sources now claim the studies > (which had at one > point even included unwitting guinea pigs) were > dropped because the > results were determined to be "not useful to > intelligence objectives." > Psychedelic users often report different experiences > than are common > (some might call them crazy), but they generally > remain lucid and aware > that their "experience of reality" is different than > that of the > interviewer (i.e. clinician), but that neither has > an exclusive grasp > of "what is real." That is, they technically are > not "crazy." > > I have heard that speed has at times been added to > LSD doses in order > to give the impression of a stronger dose, but I > haven't heard of this > being associated with people "going crazy." I have > also heard that > the Hendrix song, "Purple Haze," referred to a type > of LSD, but not > that it was at all associated with speed or any lack > of sanity (could > be an opportunity for me to learn more?). I think > the music is poetry, > and as such we may never know what the artist really > "meant" - that > could mean he was crazy, or not. > > I have also heard stories of people making huge > judgment errors > (jumping off a building thinking they could fly is > the typical urban > myth) while under the influence, but sober analysis > usually reveals > that 1) poor judgments of this scale are much more > common in general > society than most people know (and their incidence > does not > significantly increase with psychedelic usage), and > 2) the individuals > involved were generally not good decision-makers in > the first place. > > Psychedelics have, of course, played a central role > in spiritual > connection and generation-to-generation > myth-teaching in thousands of > cultures around the world, for tens of thousands of > years. When > treated with due respect, their use seems to be not > harmful. Our > society's problems with them seem to stem from our > society's rules, not > from the effects of the drug, itself. > > Thanks again for explaining what you were alluding > to. I hope my > perspective helps you (and others) understand some > of the background of > my interest in how these two topics got linked-up. > > Now do I owe everyone an apology for going so far > off topic and "down > the rabbit hole?" > > David > > On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 12:30 PM, Gerardo > Garcia wrote: > > should have witnessed more than one story about > people swallowing lsd > > often > > associated with speed. I am not sure but "purple > haze" (as in the > > Hendrix > > song) could have been one of those. Sometimes > people went crazy with > > the > > combination but surely the people (even under > medical reciping) > > fighting > > > >> Gerardo, could you explain what connection you > are drawing between > >> amphetamine (speed) and Lysergic Acid (LSD, a > psychedelic)? > >> > >> Maybe it would help us understand why you think > an apology is > >> necessary > >> or appropriate? > >> > >> On Friday, May 16, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Gerardo > Garcia wrote: > >>> Could Quincy write the apology of speed? (when > associated with LSD, > >>> not > >>> fat) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 00:26:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Speed / LSD (was Re: dome math) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: David Lane >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Speed / LSD (was Re: dome math) >Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:18:32 -0700 casually I found this Buckminster Fuller sites and lists after reading Carlos Castaneda (some people say that Castaneda robbed the tensegrity term from Fuller. I say tha in the internet era and coming from Castaneda that is nonsense. For me he was pointing towards Fuller) AND Castaneda lately said that mushrooms and peyote were not for white people. I agree: the huichol people from west México initiate their boys like at age 13 AND about 12 to 15 aduts take care of one single boy .... in a a ritual (=religious) tradition. They all are great plastic artists not drugaddicts nor crazy people. The great cuban film-maker Tomás Gutiérrez Alea in his masterpiece "Memories of underdevelopment" satated that "devolpment" was to relate everything with everything. I do not think that this topics are off whatever, or what? are we only going to accept that Cubans were the best tropical cattle raisers in the world? but not as good "phrase coiner" as Fuller? Here goes my phrase: "Fuller is playing a central role in myth-utopy-teaching as heavy as pychedelics, but no less not more than myth making" Please do not ask me to remember Borges: "democracy is a bad trip of statistics" (Am I quoting textually?) are lies metaphysical devices? Gerardo García Tampico, Tam PS. REgarding pharmacology? Does anybody know what is the drug the astronauts had (or have) to take in order to avoid a hypophysis massive hormonal discharge (and death par consequence) while escaping from earth's gravity? > >Psychedelics have, of course, played a central role in spiritual >connection and generation-to-generation myth-teaching in thousands of >cultures around the world, for tens of thousands of years. When >treated with due respect, their use seems to be not harmful. Our >society's problems with them seem to stem from our society's rules, not >from the effects of the drug, itself. > >Thanks again for explaining what you were alluding to. I hope my >perspective helps you (and others) understand some of the background of >my interest in how these two topics got linked-up. > >Now do I owe everyone an apology for going so far off topic and "down >the rabbit hole?" > >David > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 00:46:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Speed / LSD (was Re: dome math) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: frank zubek >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Speed / LSD (was Re: dome math) >Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:29:10 -0700 Pracelsus said that the dosage (the amount) made the poison postwar syndrome? Seattle (an ignorant man for somebody) knew that everything was related with everything and (movies again. Gerardo "do you do something else besides go to movies?") in the picture "A beautiful mind" holywood attempted to privatize the attemtps of the Princeton math student (as in the movie) that approached John F. Nash saying that he was discovering (via math) that "everything is related to everything". The wise math student did not know that Seattle could not sell his land, but now with the Princeton made formulas the FMI will discover the "black thread" "penny for a spool of thread, penny for a needle" kiss me quick I'm off, goodbye, pop goes the weasel Please see that I'm not as crazy as McLuhan (and Fuller liked that kind of thing) Frank Zubek, killing is a serious thing (I feel guilty for the birds I killed when I was a child). Read what some Seattle contemporaries did to scalpers (not necessarily killers): a seven days ritual with the man buried in the sand up to the stomach the problem is being in the front and come back to the disco the next day, no ritual, just a plain cheeseburger affair it is not possible to retain your mental health that way (Fuller said that no respect for the dead drives to no respect for the alive. Well if Fuller did no say that is because he had not the time) Gerardo GArcía Tampico, México > >A interesting thought on drugs; Where I come from >consumption of mushrooms is a seasonal feast where one >can buy all kind of mushrooms on the market. >In that time of the year there is also lots of stomach >poisoning and deadts related to mushroom consumption. >Those who survive all describe a unpleasant feelings, >hallucinations, wometing and all related symptoms. > >I have noticed that those who did go through such >stage here in America describe the same poisoning as >fun, cool, hallucinations as the main attraction of a >halucinogenious mushroom consumption. The point is how >the same simtoms of the same drug is described >differently here, and totally different over there. > >I have newer met no one in Slovakia who did consumed >poison mushrooms, survived and said it was cool and >I'll try again. > >I guess it's all depends how one looks at thing > >War also has different effect on people.From the >Vietnam war we have a large # of people here in the >states claiming post war sindroms, of depression, a >human shock which will destroy someone personality and >humanity. The second world war, where all my friends >parents as also mine parents went through the whole >war and all it's travesties, where no one ever claimed >any post war syndromes. Most people did went beck to a >relatively normal life, careers and none have claimed >the war was to blame for someone unsuccess. > >Once again the same event produced different facts. >The post war syndrome then must be just a American >attitude where it can not be applied globally as far >what one can blaim the war for. Unless the Vietnam war >was somewhat more terifiying as where all the other >wars. > >frank > > > > This is a little off the topic, but just following > > up, here, on > > Gerardo's response to my question about his mention > > of LSD in a remark > > stemming from Q's mention of speed (in the > > apparently derogatory tone). > > > > G, Thanks for the perspective. I think I now have a > > better > > understanding of where you're coming from. My > > interest was not in > > pinning down who owes an apology, only in learning > > about varying > > perspectives. My perspective is a little different > > than yours, but > > not really contrary. > > > > Since you mentioned California, I live within a few > > miles of San > > Francisco, and have seen effects of casual and > > clinical use of both > > speed and psychedelics. I believe both have a > > therapeutic value when > > properly used, and both offer the opportunity for > > abuse. Both are very > > widely used outside of California, too. I recently > > heard a joke that > > the most common girl's name in Arizona is "Crystal" > > (referencing a > > street term for a type of amphetamine). This joke > > probably works in a > > dozen US states. > > > > Speed itself (without LSD) is known, even in > > underground drug culture, > > as a killer (the hippies had a saying that Speed > > Kills), and as > > something that makes people crazy. When used > > heavily over time (weeks > > or more), speed usage usually results (not > > unexpectedly) in a lack of > > physiologically-necessary sleep. This lack of > > sleep, of course, is > > often associated with temporary psychosis > > (certifiable "crazyness"). > > > > My understanding is that this "amphetamine > > psychosis" can result in > > casual (street) or clinical (fat-farm) settings, > > usually without any > > help from psychedelics. Paranoia is often present, > > as well as > > delusions of grandeur or persecution. It is > > unfortunate that the abuse > > of speed is growing today, and symptomatic, I think, > > of a general > > social cognitive dissonance, necessarily resulting > > from our > > unsustainable consumption patterns. These crazy > > "speed freak" people > > are generally not safety-minded, if you know what I > > mean. > > > > On The Other Hand... > > > > "Psyche-delic" comes from the Greek "to see the > > soul," doesn't it? > > While I nurture an interest in many aspects of this > > direction of > > inquiry, I remain unaware of any widely known > > linking between > > psychedelic usage and psychosis in previously > > healthy individuals. LSD > > was studied by the CIA in the SF Bay Area > > (Stanford+) for decades and > > the resulting behaviors were not what was initially > > expected, but was > > not as wild or dangerous as the behaviors associated > > with amphetamine > > abuse. Intelligence sources now claim the studies > > (which had at one > > point even included unwitting guinea pigs) were > > dropped because the > > results were determined to be "not useful to > > intelligence objectives." > > Psychedelic users often report different experiences > > than are common > > (some might call them crazy), but they generally > > remain lucid and aware > > that their "experience of reality" is different than > > that of the > > interviewer (i.e. clinician), but that neither has > > an exclusive grasp > > of "what is real." That is, they technically are > > not "crazy." > > > > I have heard that speed has at times been added to > > LSD doses in order > > to give the impression of a stronger dose, but I > > haven't heard of this > > being associated with people "going crazy." I have > > also heard that > > the Hendrix song, "Purple Haze," referred to a type > > of LSD, but not > > that it was at all associated with speed or any lack > > of sanity (could > > be an opportunity for me to learn more?). I think > > the music is poetry, > > and as such we may never know what the artist really > > "meant" - that > > could mean he was crazy, or not. > > > > I have also heard stories of people making huge > > judgment errors > > (jumping off a building thinking they could fly is > > the typical urban > > myth) while under the influence, but sober analysis > > usually reveals > > that 1) poor judgments of this scale are much more > > common in general > > society than most people know (and their incidence > > does not > > significantly increase with psychedelic usage), and > > 2) the individuals > > involved were generally not good decision-makers in > > the first place. > > > > Psychedelics have, of course, played a central role > > in spiritual > > connection and generation-to-generation > > myth-teaching in thousands of > > cultures around the world, for tens of thousands of > > years. When > > treated with due respect, their use seems to be not > > harmful. Our > > society's problems with them seem to stem from our > > society's rules, not > > from the effects of the drug, itself. > > > > Thanks again for explaining what you were alluding > > to. I hope my > > perspective helps you (and others) understand some > > of the background of > > my interest in how these two topics got linked-up. > > > > Now do I owe everyone an apology for going so far > > off topic and "down > > the rabbit hole?" > > > > David > > > > On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 12:30 PM, Gerardo > > Garcia wrote: > > > should have witnessed more than one story about > > people swallowing lsd > > > often > > > associated with speed. I am not sure but "purple > > haze" (as in the > > > Hendrix > > > song) could have been one of those. Sometimes > > people went crazy with > > > the > > > combination but surely the people (even under > > medical reciping) > > > fighting > > > > > >> Gerardo, could you explain what connection you > > are drawing between > > >> amphetamine (speed) and Lysergic Acid (LSD, a > > psychedelic)? > > >> > > >> Maybe it would help us understand why you think > > an apology is > > >> necessary > > >> or appropriate? > > >> > > >> On Friday, May 16, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Gerardo > > Garcia wrote: > > >>> Could Quincy write the apology of speed? (when > > associated with LSD, > > >>> not > > >>> fat) > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 09:28:02 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Watkins Subject: Re: Speed / LSD (was Re: dome math) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Geraldo, I want to relate an experience that I had after reading one of Carlos Castenada's books. I had finished reading a Castenada's book one night, I believe it was A Separate Reality. The next morning I went to work in the Federal Building in Kansas City, MO. I was eating breakfast in the cafeteria, a large L shaped room. I was seated near the front next to some large windows. At the far side of the dining room I saw something moving on the wall. It flew across the room and as it approached I realized it was the biggest moth that I had ever seen. It came across the entire room and landed on the window right next to me. In the Castenada book I had just read one of the things I had found most fascinating was a huge moth that was a figure of power and magic, I forget the term he used for the type of power figure it represented. I was latter to find that the particular moth that I saw was a Cecropia Moth (I had an ex-science teacher who raised some through their stages). The Cecropia Moth has a wing span of about five to six inches and is the biggest moth in North America. http://cse-ferg41.unl.edu/pub/leps/moths-butterflies.html?page=cecropia Dave Watkins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Garcia" Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 8:26 PM > > casually I found this Buckminster Fuller sites and lists after reading > Carlos Castaneda (some people say that Castaneda robbed the tensegrity term > from Fuller. I say tha in the internet era and coming from Castaneda that > is nonsense. For me he was pointing towards Fuller) AND Castaneda lately > said that mushrooms and peyote were not for white people. I agree: the > huichol people from west México initiate their boys like at age 13 AND about > 12 to 15 aduts take care of one single boy .... in a a ritual (=religious) > tradition. They all are great plastic artists not drugaddicts nor crazy > people. > > The great cuban film-maker Tomás Gutiérrez Alea in his masterpiece "Memories > of underdevelopment" satated that "devolpment" was to relate everything with > everything. I do not think that this topics are off whatever, or what? are > we only going to accept that Cubans were the best tropical cattle raisers in > the world? but not as good "phrase coiner" as Fuller? > > Here goes my phrase: "Fuller is playing a central role in > myth-utopy-teaching as heavy as pychedelics, but no less not more than myth > making" > > Please do not ask me to remember Borges: "democracy is a bad trip of > statistics" (Am I quoting textually?) are lies metaphysical devices? > > Gerardo García > Tampico, Tam > > PS. REgarding pharmacology? Does anybody know what is the drug the > astronauts had (or have) to take in order to avoid a hypophysis massive > hormonal discharge (and death par consequence) while escaping from earth's > gravity? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 21:22:29 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: QQQ IS NOT ONE PERSON What would casteneda say? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I THINK HIS FINAL SENTENCE HERE AT LEAST LENDS CREDENCE TO MY SUPPOSITION THAT QQQ IS NOT ONE PERSON. WHY WON'T HE (THEY) LET PEOPLE MAIL HIM (THEM) THINGS? OR TALK WITH HIM/THEM ON THE PHONE? IS/ARE QQQ THREE FEMINISTS, DISGUISING THEMSELVES AS INTELLIGENT BEINGS? El 9/5/03 09:41 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escribi=F3: > Randomania, or > Every Thing I Know, I learned BEFORE Kindergarten; > I was raised in a shanty-town! >=20 > too bad, you're not going to have a webcam with feedback, > so that we can make fun of you! >=20 > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 12:58:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Speed / LSD (was Re: dome math) In-Reply-To: <006101c321f8$4d3daf00$0100a8c0@mshome.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii OH, NO. The polygon has returned to dome math! http://www.butterflyalphabet.com/NatureImages/categories/but_scales.htm http://www.pbrc.hawaii.edu/bemf/microangela/scale1.htm Dick --- David Watkins wrote: > Geraldo, > > I want to relate an experience that I had after reading > one of Carlos > Castenada's books. I had finished reading a Castenada's > book one night, I > believe it was A Separate Reality. The next morning I > went to work in the > Federal Building in Kansas City, MO. I was eating > breakfast in the > cafeteria, a large L shaped room. I was seated near the > front next to some > large windows. At the far side of the dining room I saw > something moving on > the wall. It flew across the room and as it approached I > realized it was the > biggest moth that I had ever seen. It came across the > entire room and landed > on the window right next to me. In the Castenada book I > had just read one of > the things I had found most fascinating was a huge moth > that was a figure of > power and magic, I forget the term he used for the type > of power figure it > represented. I was latter to find that the particular > moth that I saw was a > Cecropia Moth (I had an ex-science teacher who raised > some through their > stages). The Cecropia Moth has a wing span of about five > to six inches and > is the biggest moth in North America. > > > http://cse-ferg41.unl.edu/pub/leps/moths-butterflies.html?page=cecropia > > Dave Watkins > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerardo Garcia" > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 8:26 PM > > > > casually I found this Buckminster Fuller sites and > lists after reading > > Carlos Castaneda (some people say that Castaneda robbed > the tensegrity > term > > from Fuller. I say tha in the internet era and coming > from Castaneda that > > is nonsense. For me he was pointing towards Fuller) AND > Castaneda lately > > said that mushrooms and peyote were not for white > people. I agree: the > > huichol people from west México initiate their boys > like at age 13 AND > about > > 12 to 15 aduts take care of one single boy .... in a a > ritual (=religious) > > tradition. They all are great plastic artists not > drugaddicts nor crazy > > people. > > > > The great cuban film-maker Tomás Gutiérrez Alea in his > masterpiece > "Memories > > of underdevelopment" satated that "devolpment" was to > relate everything > with > > everything. I do not think that this topics are off > whatever, or what? > are > > we only going to accept that Cubans were the best > tropical cattle raisers > in > > the world? but not as good "phrase coiner" as Fuller? > > > > Here goes my phrase: "Fuller is playing a central role > in > > myth-utopy-teaching as heavy as pychedelics, but no > less not more than > myth > > making" > > > > Please do not ask me to remember Borges: "democracy is > a bad trip of > > statistics" (Am I quoting textually?) are lies > metaphysical devices? > > > > Gerardo García > > Tampico, Tam > > > > PS. REgarding pharmacology? Does anybody know what is > the drug the > > astronauts had (or have) to take in order to avoid a > hypophysis massive > > hormonal discharge (and death par consequence) while > escaping from earth's > > gravity? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 13:27:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: scales Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here's a very cool picture. Mind bending, as they use to say. http://www.fractaldomains.com/ronda/fred/images/scales.jpg Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:16:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Speed / LSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed wow; like, every thing is related in some way, to another?... thank you, Mothman, for that scale-loosing insight! the Seattle spiel was a piece of creative writing by some guy that was plugging Earth Day, or what ever. there was a good article, that pieced-together a plausible paraphrase (at least) of what he really might have said. "Do Not Leave Salmon Heads Unburied, PLEASE, Stupido." thus quoth: Seattle (an ignorant man for somebody) knew that everything was related with thus quoth: everything". The wise math student did not know that Seattle could not sell his land, but now with the Princeton made formulas the FMI will discover the --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:28:14 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Speed / LSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed your say-soes about the pyramids, and the supposed angles of the tetrahedron, were very silly. when you can give us a clue as to what the X-module does, give us a remedy for it! --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:04:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: scales In-Reply-To: <20030524202715.97471.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Here's a very cool picture. Mind bending, as they > use to > say. It looks like a distribution of sunflower seeds.A Fibonacy sequence. frank > http://www.fractaldomains.com/ronda/fred/images/scales.jpg > > Dick > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 18:58:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: QQQ IS NOT ONE PERSON What would casteneda say? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Frank >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: QQQ IS NOT ONE PERSON What would casteneda say? >Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 21:22:29 +0200 Come on Frank, Quincy is making great efforts to communicate oustside the proto sancta sanctorum US borders, you can't ask him to write a graphical accent on the word "estúpido". AND he is flexible and subtle.... didn't anybody see that he is proposing a pardigm shift (Fuller would approve) from dome math to dome moth? Between his grab on the Bush family and the synergetics chapters he has not read yet, he takes his time to answer our boutades who else would report about the dam-dome-moth-math grid? Should buckminserfuullerites stress more about domes as peemptive weapons against future earthquakes every time a quake kills people this week's in Algiers/Argel? Dome math seems to be infinite (and maybe that is the greater Fuller lesson: a sense of infinite --his synergetics books, his 40 hour conference, etc. resemble it. Not even Quincy has read it all... Has anybody?) but people keep dying from non dome roofs. I read about the few inches moth: whose is the greater merit for the coincidence? the Castaneda readers or the illiterate moth? Allow me to be panteistic for a second, my deodrant endures 24 hours and I religiously believe in it, is it kind of primitive? Gerardo García Tampico, México >I THINK HIS FINAL SENTENCE HERE AT LEAST LENDS CREDENCE TO MY SUPPOSITION >THAT QQQ IS NOT ONE PERSON. WHY WON'T HE (THEY) LET PEOPLE MAIL HIM (THEM) >THINGS? OR TALK WITH HIM/THEM ON THE PHONE? IS/ARE QQQ THREE FEMINISTS, >DISGUISING THEMSELVES AS INTELLIGENT BEINGS? > > >El 9/5/03 09:41 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escribió: > > > Randomania, or > > Every Thing I Know, I learned BEFORE Kindergarten; > > I was raised in a shanty-town! > > > > too bad, you're not going to have a webcam with feedback, > > so that we can make fun of you! > > > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy > > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 17:29:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: dome doom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > PARK'S DOME RAZED FOR NEW CENTER > > > Three decades ago, the geodesic dome at Charles Towne > Landing looked like the wave of the future, its space-age > architecture serving as a symbol of exciting things to > come. > On Monday, it more closely resembled a giant, deflated > beach ball, as it was demolished to make way for a new > interpretive center. > The dome had long served for critics as a perfect example > of the muddled mission of the West Ashley park, home of > South Carolina's first European settlement but long > neglected by the state. > > To read the entire story please point your Web browser to > http://www.charleston.net/stories/052003/loc_20dome.shtml > http://charleston.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 18:54:48 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Dome Comments: To: Jack Russell Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jack, See http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-K.htm I will add you to the list but my website won't be updated for another = month or so. =20 Thanks! -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jack Russell=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 12:16 PM Subject: Dome We have a dome to include in your list, and would like to see the = list. Where can we find it? Thanks, Jack and Lori Russell =20 Miami County, Kansas (outside Louisburg) =20 45 foot diameter =20 built 1991 to present Timberline design, bought just prints and metal connectors from them 5850 W 335th St, Louisburg, Ks 66053 Residential (Russell's Place) Come see it. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:02:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: domebool Comments: To: Greg Deering Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg, Go to AbeBooks & search for Domebook; you should get about 11 hits: http://www.abebooks.com/ If that dosn't work, see Alibris; you should get about 5 hits: http://www.alibris.com/ -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Deering" To: Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: domebool Hi Joe; I am looking for c copy of Domebook One and Domebook Two. I found indexes for both of them on your web site. I can't seem to open the books. I am happy with either an actual copy of the books or accesses to them on line. Can you help me? Greg Deering e-mail gregdeering@deeringbanjos.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 08:12:38 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: Speed / LSD In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This is the baby quincy. El 25/5/03 02:16 am, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escribi=F3= : > wow; like, every thing is related in some way, to another?... thank you, > Mothman, for that scale-loosing insight! >=20 > the Seattle spiel was a piece of creative writing > by some guy that was plugging Earth Day, or what ever. there was a good > article, > that pieced-together a plausible paraphrase (at least) > of what he really might have said. >=20 > "Do Not Leave Salmon Heads Unburied, PLEASE, Stupido." >=20 > thus quoth: > Seattle (an ignorant man for somebody) knew that everything was related w= ith >=20 > thus quoth: > everything". The wise math student did not know that Seattle could not s= ell > his land, but now with the Princeton made formulas the FMI will discover = the >=20 > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:36:19 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: dome doom In-Reply-To: <20030526002932.74196.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Could the dome have been sold beofer the demo? Slash and burn, resembles a bit of the butch politics no? Hail to the chief. pancho El 26/5/03 02:29 am, "Dick Fischbeck" escribi=F3: >> PARK'S DOME RAZED FOR NEW CENTER >>=20 >>=20 >> Three decades ago, the geodesic dome at Charles Towne >> Landing looked like the wave of the future, its space-age >> architecture serving as a symbol of exciting things to >> come. >> On Monday, it more closely resembled a giant, deflated >> beach ball, as it was demolished to make way for a new >> interpretive center. >> The dome had long served for critics as a perfect example >> of the muddled mission of the West Ashley park, home of >> South Carolina's first European settlement but long >> neglected by the state. >>=20 >> To read the entire story please point your Web browser to >=20 >> http://www.charleston.net/stories/052003/loc_20dome.shtml >=20 >> http://charleston.net >=20 >=20 > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 15:36:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Re: Speed / LSD In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank, you're good at this. On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 11:12 PM, Frank wrote: > This is the baby quincy. > > El 25/5/03 02:16 am, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" =20 > escribi=F3: > >> wow; like, every thing is related in some way, to another?... thank=20= >> you, >> Mothman, for that scale-loosing insight! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 15:37:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Lane Subject: Re: dome doom In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What? Are you a troublemaker? On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 09:36 AM, Frank wrote: > Could the dome have been sold beofer the demo? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:14:08 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bill Nalen Subject: Help with roofing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I just subscribed to the list after searching through the archives for help on roofing a dome. I live in a dome that's about 14-15 years old. It's made by a company that is no longer in business and is about 30'-35' in diameter. The roof is made from fiberglass triangles that have caulking between them. The roof also meets the siding without an eve (i.e. there's no facia & soffitt there). We have 4 rather large skylights in it now. The top of the dome is pretty flat. I'm having major water problems as you can guess. Judging from the water stains on the ceilings, I think the leaking has been going on for some time (I've lived in it for 3 years now). Here's my guess at the problems: the expansion in the roof due to temperature flucuations is causing the caulking to crack and allow water in. I've tried filling the cracks with black roof cement, silicon, and most recently I've coated the seams with a liquid rubber roof sealant (karnak 505). Nothing seems to have stopped the leaking so far since the expansion will crack anything that isn't very elastic. I'm at the point now where I want to rip off all the fiberglass panels and sheathing and replace it with regular asphalt shingles. I'm thinking of using the rubber ice guard stuff over the whole roof rather than regular tar paper. I'm also going to create an overhang where the roof meets the siding to allow the water to run off to the ground rather than down the siding since a lot of the siding trim is now rotted. I've done a lot of construction type stuff on regular houses so I thought I'd ask for any advice from those that have worked on domes before. My questions are these: 1. Is asphalt a good way to go. My criteria are low cost, easy installation (I'll be doing it myself so tedious is okay) and medium durability (maybe 20-25 years). 2. Is there a way to ventilate the dome. I'm thinking of installing a couple of roof vents when I do the roofing along with some soffitt vents. 3. Should I do anything different at the top since regular shingles aren't very good on shallow pitches. 4. How can I stop the leaks around the skylights? My brother keeps suggesting that I just build a box around the dome and enclose it :-) I'm hoping I don't have to go that route. Thanks for any input. Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1904 00:27:33 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Paradigm shift. dam-dome-moth-math- myth. In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Yo gerardo,=20 De acuerdo de acuerdo, pero which quincy are you referring to? The fathe= r the son or the wholey myth? We be talkin bout the myff of the uni-corporea= l quincy. Even though he/they write/s some pretty dumb things at times (that child in one of him/her)( ther=B9s probably at least a couple of she=B9s in there too) I cain=B9t fathom how there could be only ONE human alive who can write that profoundly about all kinds of topics. And have a real job. And a real family. And hobbies. Etc. Them mules back in missouri want everyone to show =8Cem. So tell me, somoebody, did even a fraction of the quincy clan respond to leifurs invitation to talk with him/them by telephone? Did one of the quincy personnnae (sp?) agree to meet or talk with fishstick to clear things up between them? NO! an ole cuzin zubeck..... Y=B9all got a plot afoot here, quincys, ole buddys, ole chums, ole pals? dam-dome-moth-math-myth Y tambien la leche. Explorin new territories. Pancho P.s. Yo! quince! (the adult) please help ole couzin bill nolan with his roof problem=20 El 25/5/03 08:58 pm, "Gerardo Garcia" escribi=F3: >> From: Frank >> Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: QQQ IS NOT ONE PERSON What would casteneda say? >> Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 21:22:29 +0200 >=20 > Come on Frank, Quincy is making great efforts to communicate oustside the > proto sancta sanctorum US borders, you can't ask him to write a graphical > accent on the word "est=FApido". AND he is flexible and subtle.... didn't > anybody see that he is proposing a pardigm shift (Fuller would approve) f= rom > dome math to dome moth? Between his grab on the Bush family and the > synergetics chapters he has not read yet, he takes his time to answer our > boutades >=20 > who else would report about the dam-dome-moth-math grid? >=20 > Should buckminserfuullerites stress more about domes as peemptive weapons > against future earthquakes every time a quake kills people this week's i= n > Algiers/Argel? >=20 > Dome math seems to be infinite (and maybe that is the greater Fuller less= on: > a sense of infinite --his synergetics books, his 40 hour conference, etc. > resemble it. Not even Quincy has read it all... Has anybody?) but people > keep dying from non dome roofs. >=20 > I read about the few inches moth: whose is the greater merit for the > coincidence? the Castaneda readers or the illiterate moth? Allow me to be > panteistic for a second, my deodrant endures 24 hours and I religiously > believe in it, is it kind of primitive? >=20 > Gerardo Garc=EDa > Tampico, M=E9xico >=20 >=20 >> I THINK HIS FINAL SENTENCE HERE AT LEAST LENDS CREDENCE TO MY SUPPOSITIO= N >> THAT QQQ IS NOT ONE PERSON. WHY WON'T HE (THEY) LET PEOPLE MAIL HIM (TH= EM) >> THINGS? OR TALK WITH HIM/THEM ON THE PHONE? IS/ARE QQQ THREE FEMINISTS, >> DISGUISING THEMSELVES AS INTELLIGENT BEINGS? >>=20 >>=20 >> El 9/5/03 09:41 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escrib= i=F3: >>=20 >>> Randomania, or >>> Every Thing I Know, I learned BEFORE Kindergarten; >>> I was raised in a shanty-town! >>>=20 >>> too bad, you're not going to have a webcam with feedback, >>> so that we can make fun of you! >>>=20 >>> --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): >>> Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... >>> For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" >>> "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy >>> http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) >>> http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html >>> http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >>>=20 >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >>> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 05:31:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Help with roofing In-Reply-To: <007301c323ed$46a97d80$6401a8c0@nalenb> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill Contact Jerome Lampro at: http://www.domeroofer.com/ Dick --- Bill Nalen wrote: > Hi, I just subscribed to the list after searching through > the archives for > help on roofing a dome. I live in a dome that's about > 14-15 years old. > It's made by a company that is no longer in business and > is about 30'-35' in > diameter. The roof is made from fiberglass triangles > that have caulking > between them. The roof also meets the siding without an > eve (i.e. there's > no facia & soffitt there). We have 4 rather large > skylights in it now. The > top of the dome is pretty flat. > > I'm having major water problems as you can guess. > Judging from the water > stains on the ceilings, I think the leaking has been > going on for some time > (I've lived in it for 3 years now). Here's my guess at > the problems: the > expansion in the roof due to temperature flucuations is > causing the caulking > to crack and allow water in. I've tried filling the > cracks with black roof > cement, silicon, and most recently I've coated the seams > with a liquid > rubber roof sealant (karnak 505). Nothing seems to have > stopped the leaking > so far since the expansion will crack anything that isn't > very elastic. I'm > at the point now where I want to rip off all the > fiberglass panels and > sheathing and replace it with regular asphalt shingles. > I'm thinking of > using the rubber ice guard stuff over the whole roof > rather than regular tar > paper. I'm also going to create an overhang where the > roof meets the > siding to allow the water to run off to the ground rather > than down the > siding since a lot of the siding trim is now rotted. > I've done a lot of > construction type stuff on regular houses so I thought > I'd ask for any > advice from those that have worked on domes before. My > questions are these: > 1. Is asphalt a good way to go. My criteria are low > cost, easy > installation (I'll be doing it myself so tedious is okay) > and medium > durability (maybe 20-25 years). > 2. Is there a way to ventilate the dome. I'm thinking of > installing a > couple of roof vents when I do the roofing along with > some soffitt vents. > 3. Should I do anything different at the top since > regular shingles aren't > very good on shallow pitches. > 4. How can I stop the leaks around the skylights? > > My brother keeps suggesting that I just build a box > around the dome and > enclose it :-) I'm hoping I don't have to go that route. > > Thanks for any input. > Bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 07:50:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Missouri dome Comments: To: Jack Russell Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jack, I got the info from a 1993 Timberline Geodesics dealer list included in = one of their catalogs. It showed a Lynn Barrow at Rt 2, Box 85b, = Drexel, MO 64742, 816-657-2109. There very well could have been an = error in Timberline's list. I think what I would like to do is list = verified dome addresses and delete questionable ones. Verified ones can = always be added back in later. I'll input the additions & corrections = but they won't show on my website until I update it in the next month or = so (I hope). Thanks for the feedback. Please let me know if I should = make any additional changes. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jack Russell=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 9:08 PM Subject: Missouri dome Thanks for the info on Kansas domes - I found Missouri from that info = and notice a dome listed for Drexel, Mo. Ours is 5 miles from Drexel, = but in Kansas, and is a Timberline. I'm wondering if it is the same = one, as I am not aware of another dome in the Drexel area. We're closer = to Drexel, but have a Louisburg, Kansas address. Ifv there is another = one near Drexel, I'd like to find it. Any ideas? Thanks again, Jack = Russell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:10:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Speed / LSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed why do I always have to "splain" myself, Ricky? that article, i think, was found in the issue of http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/ that featured "the lies of Rachel C.," especially regarding DDT; it it's not on that, it may be on http://larouchepub.com/ thus quoth: This is the baby quincy. >the Seattle spiel was a piece of creative writing >by some guy that was plugging Earth Day, or what ever. there was a good >article, --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:20:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome doom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed a silver lining is, those kids wil know exactly what "went down." as for the historical significance of the colonial/aborignal site, there is nothing about a dome that is really against that, other than some gnashing of teeth over tradition, or really, a conservationist wish for more "natural" land. if you check into the corporate structure of most land trusts, you'll probably find taht they are quite oligarchical. for the most part, though, domes are just buildings with their own planetariums, so, what is the big deal? thus quoth: "It was such an eyesore and so inappropriate to a national historic site," said Fischer, adding that hundreds of schoolchildren were captivated by the demolition. "They thought it was kind of neat." --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:30:11 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome doom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Bucky wasn't into preservationism, at all, and it's very unlikely that any one could dysassemble such a thing for any where near less than building a new one, even if it were some relatively commons construction or kit; eh? on the other hand, if you had an immediatley deployable event for such a dome, you could rent it for a good price. thus quoth: >Could the dome have been sold beofer the demo? --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:24:37 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Synergetic Stew: Explorations in Dymaxion Dining Comments: To: John Fistere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, AllBookstores has a copy: http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0911573003 FYI, here's the Table of Contents = http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-SynergeticStew.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Fistere=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:41 PM Subject: Synergetic Stew: Explorations in Dymaxion Dining My dad was a good friend of Bucky many years ago, and I met him at = least once as a kid. I have recently become aware of "Synergetic Stew: = Explorations in Dymaxion Dining", but I find that it is out of print. I = would love to get a copy of the book, or at least the articles by my = father, John Fistere, "Bumping into Bucky in NYC", and "Tabboulieh" by = my stepmother, Isobel Fistere. Can you give me any suggestions? Thanks, John Fistere (Jr.) 619/447-1907 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 19:13:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Jitterbug Complex Model Comments: To: Boots MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boots, See http://buckminster.info/Index/Jf-Jz.htm . =20 _The Artifacts of RBF, Vol 4_, pp 372-3, show the engineering drawings = for a proposed large 14' motorized sculpture. Fuller & Sadao, PC, = Architects, in Long Island City, NY, was responsible for the 1975 (?) = project. You know about this: _A Fuller Explanation_, pp 170-1 & footnote 3, ch = 11, on page 292 has details of the triangular hinge used in the small = jitterbug sculptures. The Carl Solway Gallery in Cincinnati, OH, may have one on display: = http://www.solwaygallery.com/Pages/jittterbug.html If you can somehow get ahold of a copy of BFI's Limited Edition Catalog = (1983), there's some good pictures on pp 5-8. http://buckminster.info/Biblio/By-BkTOC-LimitedEditionsCatalog.htm Hope this helps, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Boots=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Jitterbug Complex Model I am looking for the design for the jitterbug complex model a picture = of which you have on your website and which I first encountered in A = Edmondson's book "A Fuller Explanation". I am particularly interested in = the onmidirectional hinging joint designed by Dennis Dreher and would be = very greateful for any help you can give me reguarding this. Thanks N Bwts ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 06:11:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030515194310.85921.qmail@web80508.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Frank Check out Epstein's paper on tiling space and slabs with acute tets. http://www.cs.duke.edu/~ungor/abstracts/acute_tiling.html "We show it is possible to tile 3-d space using only tets with acute dihedral angles. We present severalconstructions to achieve this, including one in which all dihedral angles are less than 77.08 degrees, and another which tiles a slab in space." It sounds like this tet must be smaller than one which has a 90 degree dihedral angle like the octane. Maybe Epstein gets the 50 bucks. Dick --- frank zubek wrote: > --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > Okay, we have a game. This is getting interesting! > > > > This is going to be great. I understand you finally. > > > > Dick > Well if you do that's good, but than what is your > opinion,conclussion, because if you do understand you > have to see that the octane is indeed the limit of > minima. Zubek's minima. > > If you have a even smaller brick than I do need to > send you $500. > > frank > > > frank > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:04:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030528131101.96486.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Hi Frank > > Check out Epstein's paper on tiling space and slabs > with > acute tets. > > http://www.cs.duke.edu/~ungor/abstracts/acute_tiling.html > > "We show it is possible to tile 3-d space using only > tets > with acute dihedral angles. We present > severalconstructions > to achieve this, including one in which all dihedral > angles > are less than 77.08 degrees, and another which tiles > a slab > in space." > > It sounds like this tet must be smaller than one > which has > a 90 degree dihedral angle like the octane. > > Maybe Epstein gets the 50 bucks. > > Dick I have just finished a museum exhibit of Elusive cube, I have build also a silicone molds and a metal patterns for these molds. Octant's dihedral angles are 45 deg. for the three 90 deg.faces and the base the dihedral angles are 27 deg. aproximatelly. Last nite I have done some calculation for this regard. A 1/4 reg.tet. whose shortest edge is equal to the shortest edge of a octane, once again not only that the octane is smaller in surface but it holds more volume. This is true for acute or obtuse triangles of any tet. face. There is a group of shapes which as I have wrote earlier are smaller than a octane, which are just like a distorted octane of angles less than 90 deg. having a equilateral tri.base, these shapes are smaller, but they can not be used to construct anything, because all other shapes you connect to them end up to have they shortest edge less than one unit in length. Because octet truss is the most simplest of structures and in my set I can replace the reg.tet. by three solid kites, this structure can not be reduced any further. As I have told you that in a endless dissection of any tet. in a core of any solid like that, there is a octane deep with in as the last shape in the heart of any tet.solid. Thanks for your responds I do really appreciate it, because it will need a work of more than one individual to prove me correct or wrong. There is infinite amount of shapes, and maybe there is a shape which can be a member of a structure and also be smaller than a octane. Since you working with these shapes why don't you try to get a any Q- mod and do the comparasements of they surface. Last night I just established the prove for a 1/4 reg. tet. There is a elegant ancient prove for the size of the triangles under the arc, where the 90 deg. tri. is the largest tri. among all 90 deg. scalene tri. formed under this arc. frank P.S. I'm familiar with Epstein we have exchanged some info, if he has a smaller shape, than you admitting, that there are shapes which can be regarded as smaller than the Q- mods. You also must than agree that this concept actually makes sense, regardless who is right or wrong, because I have sensed that some of you claimed that such concept has no relevance what so ever, neither in geometry or synergetics. > --- frank zubek wrote: > > --- Dick Fischbeck > wrote: > > > Okay, we have a game. This is getting > interesting! > > > > > > This is going to be great. I understand you > finally. > > > > > > Dick > > Well if you do that's good, but than what is your > > opinion,conclussion, because if you do understand > you > > have to see that the octane is indeed the limit of > > minima. Zubek's minima. > > > > If you have a even smaller brick than I do need to > > send you $500. > > > > frank > > > > > > frank > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > http://search.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to > Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:13:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030528150424.264.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Since you working with these shapes why don't you try > to get a any Q- mod and do the comparasements of they > surface. Last night I just established the prove for a > 1/4 reg. tet. Yes, I will make more models. They tell the story. I admit, I do not follow the simplicity of your arguement. But after I make some models, I am sure I will understand more. > P.S. I'm familiar with Epstein we have exchanged some > info, What did he say about your octane conjecture? Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:19:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030528150424.264.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Frank What is the 2 dimensional equivalent to your octane conjecture? Is there one? Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 17:35:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030528171908.1101.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Frank > > What is the 2 dimensional equivalent to your octane > conjecture? Is there one? > > Dick Under a 180 deg. arc, the base can have two points at each end and the third point anywhere on the perimeter of this arc if you connect the points it always makes a 90 deg.triangle. there is only one triangle which is going to be the largest one and that is a iscosolese rig.deg.tri. where the point is at the absolute top. All other tri. are 90 deg. scalene tri. Now if any of these tri. would have they shortest leg same as the isoscalene, tri. than that tri.would be larger. This takes care of all scalene tri. I have told you earlier that the cube is build by the smallest of lines, you said so are also lots of other solids, which is true, but because it is true for a cube with in a comparasement of a reg.tet. it is clear that the cube is the smallest package. To coalesce all the shapes in my set the cube is the smallest package. All other packages will be larger. Well I'm looking forward as what your investigations revile. As far Epstains solid space filer is not exactly a building block of smooth walls as I have proposed for the wall construction, but newer less it will still fail to produce smaller shapes. I see the acute tri. but I can't see what kind of solid it is. frank __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to > Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 03:58:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed good. now, your elimination of the regular tetrahedron's octant means, the twentieth of the regular icosahedron is the one that does it, as I'd suggested, earlier. incidentally, as I'd posted it, before, Eppstein's etrahedra are not all the same! I have to go, now, but I have a few more things to say. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 06:56:08 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: dome doom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This doesn't look like a geodesic dome, though it certainly shares some design similarities. The strut pattern isn't based on an icosahedron. I think they're best alternative would be to use the opportunity to put up the real McCoy. Bob Dick Fischbeck wrote: >>PARK'S DOME RAZED FOR NEW CENTER >> >> >>Three decades ago, the geodesic dome at Charles Towne >>Landing looked like the wave of the future, its space-age >>architecture serving as a symbol of exciting things to >>come. >>On Monday, it more closely resembled a giant, deflated >>beach ball, as it was demolished to make way for a new >>interpretive center. >>The dome had long served for critics as a perfect example >>of the muddled mission of the West Ashley park, home of >>South Carolina's first European settlement but long >>neglected by the state. >> >>To read the entire story please point your Web browser to >> >> > > > >>http://www.charleston.net/stories/052003/loc_20dome.shtml >> >> > > > >>http://charleston.net >> >> > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 07:50:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome doom In-Reply-To: <3ED5E748.5090901@channel1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob I think you're right. Lamella? I didn't notice that before. Are you coming to Oswego? Dick --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > This doesn't look like a geodesic dome, though it > certainly shares some > design similarities. The strut pattern isn't based on an > icosahedron. > I think > they're best alternative would be to use the opportunity > to put up the > real McCoy. > > Bob > > >>http://www.charleston.net/stories/052003/loc_20dome.shtml > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 07:58:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030529003527.23287.qmail@web80506.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Frank Is the octane in your conjecture pictured here; second row, third from left? http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/ plates/figs/plate03.html Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:01:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > good. now, > your elimination of the regular tetrahedron's octant > means, > the twentieth of the regular icosahedron is the one > that does it, > as I'd suggested, earlier. > incidentally, > as I'd posted it, before, Eppstein's etrahedra are > not all the same! > > I have to go, now, but I have a few more things to > say. Not only that they are not same which they don't have to be, but it appears that Epstain's "estrahedra" probably contains some shapes which have they shorter edges longer than others. The walls are also not smooth but jagged. Q. the shapes don't have to be all the same but they have to have they shortest edges no less than one unit. This rules applies to every shape in that wall. Reg.tet. does not apply because if its edge would be one unit in length than all other shapes connected to it would be even smaller than the unit length. frank > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:48:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030529145856.7724.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Frank > > Is the octane in your conjecture pictured here; > second row, > third from left? > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/ > plates/figs/plate03.html > Dick http://clowder.net/zubek/zubek.html Here is my site I could not open the URL you sent. You can see a single octane and a two freq. octane. > > __Also 176 magnets that connect all and newer repel. Tell Anderson said that he likes the Q-mods because they have lots of possibilities, nothing more than a handful combinations. In three years I still have not go through all of them, a lifetime of a single human being is to short to observe all there is. This it's self explain as far what is more fundamental, elementary and natural and diverse. What is more appealing and challenging than a puzzle with endless combinations and each every one holds a very fundamental truth in geometry, synergetics, physics, crystallography, chemistry and so on. frank ______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to > Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:42:00 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: dome doom In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable What about floating it away, intact, with a dirigible? Aside form the flight permits and terror fears etc Che gerardo, podrias lo haber utilizado en tampico?=BF pancho El 27/5/03 10:30 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escribi=F3= : > Bucky wasn't into preservationism, at all, and > it's very unlikely that any one could dysassemble such a thing > for any where near less than building a new one, even if > it were some relatively commons construction or kit; eh? >=20 > on the other hand, > if you had an immediatley deployable event for such a dome, > you could rent it for a good price. >=20 > thus quoth: >> Could the dome have been sold beofer the demo? >=20 > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 18:52:08 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: dome doom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Frank >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: dome doom >Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:42:00 +0200 I could have used it in Tampico if it gets here before may 31st, when I will be singing: "dear landlord please don´t put it brass on my soul" "the domes are expensive and" "my frank lloyd wright house is pretty cold" Hey you man from Aragón, did you read the message "journalist from Spain....." what about the signature? It had to be from Catalunya. Sorry for my own genetic Gerardo GArcía Tampico, Tam. but rather be in Madrid just now >What about floating it away, intact, with a dirigible? Aside form the >flight permits and terror fears etc > >Che gerardo, podrias lo haber utilizado en tampico?¿ > >pancho > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 20:53:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome doom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed good call, Bob, on the "nongeodesicness" of it -- whenever there's a bunch of parallel circles, going all the way to a pole. true, it could be "floated away," but it'd have to be buttressed on the bottom with very long struts to "complete the spheric," since that's what the earth-grounding does (or, if the parts were realizable, one could *really* complete the sphere, but the nongeodesicness might still be an issue of "integrity," trying to lift it, since it may have been built only to withstand compressive forces from the top). and, still, there's the humongous amount of labor that'd probably be needed. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:03:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you have to concatenate the two parts of the URL, which programs like Hotmail chop; maybe it'll work, as below: www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/figs/plate03.html now, if your "octane" is *not* an octahedral octant, then you've been seriously misleading yourself-and-others on this list (and it was the third from the left of the second row in plate 3; I'd never actually read that whole poster, before .-) you have already proven to yourself, by elimination of the tetrhaedral quadrant, that the icoshedral icosant (sik) is "the smallest unit brick" per your criterion. I know, you'll object, but you'll just be acruing interest on the $500 principle (principal?) for me, which is OK by me! and that is because one of your criteria is silly, that the octant can actually build any thing, but an octahedron, and funny-looking aglomerations of octahedra, with lots of non-cheese space in between them. you really should have known that, by deconstrution of the hexahedron, taht you claim to making a small business out of -- some of your statements *still* do not fit-together, but it's hard to tell, when it's just a problem of Magyarese. thus far, your only real dyscovery, that I've seen, is that the hexahedron can be divided into 6 "LCDs," of the same shape as Bucky's 48 (and I intorduced that, some time ago, on another list -- which shall go un-named .-) --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:00:44 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > you have to concatenate the two parts of the URL, > which programs like Hotmail chop; maybe it'll work, > as below: > www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/figs/plate03.html Yes, I got it we are talking of the same shape. > now, if your "octane" is *not* an octahedral octant, > then > you've been seriously misleading yourself-and-others > on this list (and > it was the third from the left of the second row in > plate 3; > I'd never actually read that whole poster, before Yes, that is the shape. and that is because one of your criteria is > silly, > that the octant can actually build any thing, > but an octahedron, I know it can only build a octahedron and I have newer said anything else. A 1/2 octahedrons also can be combined in to a pentagonal prism, with concave top and bottom. I just said that the reg.tet. is absolutelly helpeless on it's own and can't do anything, where the 1/8 oct.can. > thus far, your only real dyscovery, that I've seen, > is that > the hexahedron can be divided into 6 "LCDs," > of the same shape as Bucky's 48 (and > I intorduced that, some time ago, on another list > -- which shall go un-named .-) Well if that is a discovery, than maybe only to you since that shape been well known for long time now. The biggest discovery is that there is no brick smaller than a 1/8 oct. This statement needs to be proven wrong or it needs to be accepted as the limit of minima. Q- besides so much writhing why don't you show me a shape give me it's dimmenssions, show me how it can be combined with other shapes, we will build the wall and than we will determine which if any brick is the smallest one. We also can determine and finally put this to rest if somehowe there is a smaller shape. Octane is the shape, so you know what I'm talking about,but I have problem to see, which shape you demonstrating under these conditions which is the smaller shape. I have no problem to tell you that which shape is the smaller one in my set. Epstain's picture is a two dimens. draving, I have no clue as far what shape are in that structure. A 1/4 reg.tet. whose sortest edge is same as octane's edge is not only larger but it contains less volume, a double *whamies*. I'm sure we do not need to go any deeper as far A modules go. Now the same thing applies to a B-T and all other mods. Dick sugested that a accute triangle is less than a isoscalene which is true but it can not be combined with other shapes and still keep the rule of the shortest edge length. The wall has to contain shapes where each shape has that shortest edge of one unit. It has to build a contenious structure, with no gaps or jagget surfaces. P.S. tHE SHAPES CAN BE ALL DIFFERENT IN APPEARANCE, VOLUME, AND ONLY ONE SHAPE IN EXISTANCE FITS THIS CRITERIA A 1/8 0CT. frank > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:48:07 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Synergeticists of the NorthEast Corridor (SNEC) Subject: Hands-On Workshop on Buckminster Fullers's Geodesic Structures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Synergeticists of the NorthEast Corridor And SUNY Oswego, Department of Technology Present a two day hands-on workshop * * * on * * * Buckminster Fullers's Geodesic Structures * * * Joe Clinton will lead the main workshop When: Saturday 28 June 2003, 9AM - 9PM Sunday 29 June 2003, 9AM - 5PM Where: SUNY Oswego, Department of Technology Wilber Hall, Design Studio, Room 350 Travel Directions: http://www.oswego.edu/welcome/directions.html Exhibit Space Exhibit space will be available for showing artifacts. Space must be reserved by June 1. To make arrangements for space, send a request with the dimensions of your piece(s) to John Belt . Please bring a card with a brief description of your work for display in the exhibit area. Pre-registration at this event is required. Please mail your registration and payment by 7 June. On-Line Registration Form: http://snec.cjfearnley.com/registration.html Printable Registration Form: http://snec.cjfearnley.com/snec.reg.2003.06.pdf Sponsors: - Synergeticists of the NorthEast Corridor http://snec.cjfearnley.com/ - SUNY Oswego, Department of Technology http://www.oswego.edu/tech/ -- Wars are poor chisels for carving out peaceful tomorrows. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. Christopher J. Fearnley | Explorer in Universe Chris@CJFearnley.com | Design Science Revolutionary http://www.CJFearnley.com | "Dare to be Naïve" -- Bucky Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:18:37 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: dome doom In-Reply-To: <20030529145002.28413.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I would've bid on the structure, found a dirigible and all the permits to move it, then invite all the quincy's, and leifur and mr zubeck and esta hombre abajo en tampico to the lift off pancho El 29/5/03 04:50 pm, "Dick Fischbeck" escribi=F3: > Bob >=20 > I think you're right. Lamella? I didn't notice that before. >=20 > Are you coming to Oswego? >=20 > Dick >=20 > --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: >> This doesn't look like a geodesic dome, though it >> certainly shares some >> design similarities. The strut pattern isn't based on an >> icosahedron. >> I think >> they're best alternative would be to use the opportunity >> to put up the >> real McCoy. >>=20 >> Bob >>=20 >=20 >>=20 >>> http://www.charleston.net/stories/052003/loc_20dome.shtml >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:03:48 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Subject: Re: dome doom In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thanks mr quincy. f El 29/5/03 10:53 pm, "Quincy Quincy Quincy" escribi=F3= : > good call, Bob, on the "nongeodesicness" of it -- > whenever there's a bunch of parallel circles, > going all the way to a pole. > true, it could be "floated away," but > it'd have to be buttressed on the bottom > with very long struts to "complete the spheric," since > that's what the earth-grounding does (or, if > the parts were realizable, one could *really* complete the sphere, but > the nongeodesicness might still be an issue > of "integrity," trying to lift it, since it may have been built > only to withstand compressive forces from the top). > and, still, there's the humongous amount of labor > that'd probably be needed. >=20 > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:39:18 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: dome doom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't plan to, but thanks for asking. Bob Dick Fischbeck wrote: >Bob > >I think you're right. Lamella? I didn't notice that before. > >Are you coming to Oswego? > >Dick > >--- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > > >>This doesn't look like a geodesic dome, though it >>certainly shares some >>design similarities. The strut pattern isn't based on an >>icosahedron. >> I think >>they're best alternative would be to use the opportunity >>to put up the >>real McCoy. >> >>Bob >> >> >> > > > >>>http://www.charleston.net/stories/052003/loc_20dome.shtml >>> >>> > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:47:41 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Clinton Papers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe, I finally got around to looking for these papers and they seem to have disappeared. I joined GeoJourney (without getting the email since I have enough to do just keeping up with geodesic), but got "not found" when I tried the link. Bob Joe Moore wrote: 4 papers by Joe Clinton regarding various aspects of geodesic geometry: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GeoJourney/files/RanDome/ -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:58:00 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Clinton Papers In-Reply-To: <3ED760FD.5010400@channel1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry Bob. I have not been able to download Joe's work(I thought I had), except for a scan of the short paper on randomes. See: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/ shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=123 I'll get the other work out there soon. Dick --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Hi Joe, > > I finally got around to looking for these papers and they > seem to > have disappeared. I joined GeoJourney (without getting > the email > since I have enough to do just keeping up with geodesic), > but got > "not found" when I tried the link. > > Bob > > Joe Moore wrote: > > 4 papers by Joe Clinton regarding various aspects of > geodesic geometry: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GeoJourney/files/RanDome/ > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:20:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Clinton Papers In-Reply-To: <3ED760FD.5010400@channel1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob You can see Joe's Equal Central Angle Conjecture at synergeo, under files, under fischbeck. If you are not in the group, you can join and then unjoin. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/ Dick --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Hi Joe, > > I finally got around to looking for these papers and they > seem to > have disappeared. I joined GeoJourney (without getting > the email > since I have enough to do just keeping up with geodesic), > but got > "not found" when I tried the link. > > Bob > > Joe Moore wrote: > > 4 papers by Joe Clinton regarding various aspects of > geodesic geometry: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GeoJourney/files/RanDome/ > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:12:42 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed guffaw!, as they say. anyway, you can join those groups without getting the mail, which seems to be "pretty standard, these days," via the Preferences, or what ever. thus quoth: You can see Joe's Equal Central Angle Conjecture at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/ --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:34:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it may sound nasty, but almost every thing that you say, *ab initio*, is wrong about geometry; you are using the tried-and-true method of error-and-trial, Zube! for instance, the use of "orthoschemes" goes back to the 19th cce, but I've never seen any note about not "dropping ones perpendiculars" *not* from the center, in the lit. neither Coxeter nor Bucky e.g. noticed that about even the simplest shape, The Tetrahedron. as for you, I know it's going to take you a while to "get" what I'm saying, for those two well-known reasons that you've exploited in Zube's Method (and His Doob; I mean, a;most anyone else who is not as knowledgable as I am about it, would conclude that you were a) a ****ing genius, based on your tumult of pidgin English, or b) that you're a Rube ... which, I think, relates to "Rube Goldberg devices," not Rubik's Hexahedron .-) getting back to your famous conjecture about minimal shapes, this is strictly a laugh. firstly, everyone who's been trhough Bucky 101 already knows that -- and you can always review it in the online edition of _A Fuller Explanation_ -- the tetrahedron doesn't pack space, not the octahedron, but only the two, together (and, their packing is just the dual of the packing of rhombical dodecahedra: vertices replace cells & vise-versa etc.). therefore, there is no "wall" that can be made from octants of octahedra, nor tetrants of tetrahedra, nor icosants of icosahedra. however, the latter is certainly smaller, as you have already proven by the elimination of the tetrants (if that really worked). so, then, quel est le vraie boeuf, et ou est mon 500 Federal Reserve Notes? --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 21:40:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: how to design and build your dome home Comments: To: richard Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard, AbeBooks has 2 used copies for sale at about $100 each! Search for the = author, Gene Hopster: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookSearchPL BiblioFind has a copy for about $20: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/books/misc/bibliofind.html/103-76= 00537-7897424 Here's the Table of Contents:=20 http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-HowToDesignAndBuildYourOwnDome= .htm Please note that these are NOT geodesic domes (note square panels). -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: richard=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:33 PM Subject: how to design and build your dome home dear joe: how do i get a copy of=20 how to design and build your dome home i checked everywhere and i get coming back to this site and a see the = book but i can not read it=20 please help thank you richard pearson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:50:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: frw:sci.math Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Fantastic question. Remarkable. I'd add, what is its frequency. And I'd ask, how many vertexes will it have. Dick "Cro-Sniper" wrote in message news:... > Hi, can somebody solve this? > If we have 100 little metal balls with radius of 1 cm each and we are join > them into one big ball, what will be the radius of that big ball? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:03:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: frw:sci.math;n=100 Comments: To: sphere , synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More on the same idea. Dick "Justin Davis" wrote in message news:... > "Cro-Sniper" wrote in message > news:bb61g9$i6i$1@fegnews.vip.hr... > > Hi, can somebody solve this? > > If we have 100 little metal balls with radius of 1 cm each and we are join > > them into one big ball, what will be the radius of that big ball? > > > > > > Do you mean melt them down? > > If so, the volume will stay the same. You've got 100 * (volume small metal > ball) = (volume of large metal ball). If you know that volume = (4/3) * pi * > r^3, where r is the radius, you've got the answer. :-) Ah, yes, melting them down would be the easy way. What about the following question: what is the diameter of the smallest sphere into which the 100 balls can be packed? I don't seriously expect anyone to try to answer this. JDavis __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:17:56 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome doom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've got news for you, that dome technology was back-engineered out of Roswell, along with radar, fiber optics, the solid-state mini-pentode etc. ad vomitorium. it might be *interesting* to take such a thing apart, but not to rebuild it from the peices! thus quoth: I would've bid on the structure, found a dirigible and all the permits to move it, then invite all the quincy's, and leifur and mr zubeck and esta hombre abajo en tampico to the lift off --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 19:16:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: frw:sci.math;n=100 In-Reply-To: <20030531180322.11181.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > More on the same idea. > > Dick > > "Justin Davis" wrote in > message > news:... > > "Cro-Sniper" wrote in message > > news:bb61g9$i6i$1@fegnews.vip.hr... > > > Hi, can somebody solve this? > > > If we have 100 little metal balls with radius of > 1 cm > each and we are join > > > them into one big ball, what will be the radius > of that > big ball. One small ball would have it's volume at 4.188790205 x 100= 418.790205 plus 1/3 I just do this by aproximattion = 560/4.188790205=133.71 Cube ruth = radius. Radius is somewhat ower 5 cm. frank > > > > > > Do you mean melt them down? > > > If so, the volume will stay the same. You've got > 100 * > (volume small metal > > ball) = (volume of large metal ball). If you know > that > volume = (4/3) * pi * > > r^3, where r is the radius, you've got the answer. > :-) > > Ah, yes, melting them down would be the easy way. > What > about the > following question: what is the diameter of the > smallest > sphere into > which the 100 balls can be packed? I don't > seriously > expect anyone to > try to answer this. > JDavis > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to > Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com