From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 15 11:53:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i5FFrVa6012140 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:53:31 -0400 Message-Id: <200406151553.i5FFrVa6012140@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 16980 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 15:53:31 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 15:53:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:53:31 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0306" To: Chris Fearnley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on linux00.LinuxForce.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.7 tests=MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO Content-Length: 152984 Lines: 4337 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 23:16:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: question Comments: To: DJBpeachesncream@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, Tough question, but after a little research, here goes: Joseph Buckminster had a daughter Anna Buckminster who had a daughter=20 Sarah Williams who had a son=20 Timothy Fuller, Jr, who had a son=20 Arthur Buckminster Fuller who had a son=20 Richard Buckminster Fuller who had a son=20 Richard Buckminster Fuller (Jr). See _Buckminster Fuller: At Home in the Universe_, pp 7-10 -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DJBpeachesncream@aol.com=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 9:07 AM Subject: RE: question How did Mr Fuller come to have the first name of Buckminster, or = middle name, I guess?=20 Jerry Buckminster ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 00:00:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. 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Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) Web-searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:23:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Fwd:n=100 Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More to ponder, care of Anton. And Steve W. Dick > Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:54:51 -0700 > From: Anton Sherwood > CC: sphere , synergeo > > Subject: Re: [Sph] re:frw:sci.math;n=100 > > Dick Fischbeck quoted Justin Davis (i think): > > > . . . what is the diameter of the smallest sphere into > > which the 100 balls can be packed? I don't seriously > > expect anyone to try to answer this. > > A lower bound is easy: (300*sqrt(2)/pi)^(1/3), > assuming the Kepler Conjecture is true. > From: Anton Sherwood > > Anton Sherwood wrote: > > A lower bound is easy: (300*sqrt(2)/pi)^(1/3), > > assuming the Kepler Conjecture is true. > > And an upper bound: 1+sqrt(28) > http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/polyhedra/waterman/ > > -- > Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:17:31 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?nsections=41 So I've been working on the Wong thesis. Kind of heavy going, but worth it. Like Joe and Dick say, it's quite a resource. Wong states Bauerfeld's (Zeiss engineer) first design was indeed what we would call a geodesic design, a subdivided icosahedron projected on a sphere, but it was discarded in favor of the "lesser circle" design shown in the patent because that held up well enough structurally for their purposes and was easier to assemble. This was what Bucky was shown a picture of initially when someone familiar with Bauerfeld's work brought it to his attention. It seems certain Bucky didn't plagiarize the first design and arrived by a totally different path. Later the inventor's daughter gave Bucky a book containing the first design, but stated her father and his collaborators had no clue about the structural differences between the two designs and really was just interested in making planetariums of limited diameter. It took Bucky to develop the structural possibilities of the geodesic dome. I think the top photo of #756 is the first design, and the bottom photo is the second design, though it's not clearly indicated anywhere. Initially they appeared to me like two views of the same structure, but on looking at the bases, I saw they are different. The top photo certainly looks to me as a geodesic, though the clarity is not that good that I can clearly mark the icosahedral vertices. And I never appreciated that "4D" was a pun on "Ford" until I read it in the thesis though I knew Bucky was an admirer of Ford. The thesis brings back the power of Fuller's conceptualizing for me. Bob Dick F. wrote: Wow! What a resource! Thanks! So, basically, all the talk about Jena over the years has been unfounded. The Zeiss dome is not geodesic, because one third of the struts are not chords of great circles. They are actually small circle chords. Is this your understanding? I also notice some septagons in to structure, not just pentagons and hexagons. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: >> Dick, >> >> See >> > > http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?ns > ections=41 > > especially # 761 & 765. > > This is from Wong's MIT thesis which is online. There's > a TON of > interesting material if one takes the time to look at > each scan, a lot of it > not available anywhere else! > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Fischbeck" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly > > >> > Joe >> > >> > This is an important distinction. Do you have the link > > > or >> > page number to the passage with this expanation? >> > >> > Dick >> > >> > --- Joe S Moore wrote: > > >>> > > Fuller explained that the Zeiss dome had parallel >> >> > rings >>> > > which induced >>> > > hyperbolical paraboliod interlacing, therefore >> >> > inducing >>> > > Japanese lantern >>> > > foldability. The triangulated great circle >> >> > (geodesic) >> > > method has no such >> > > flaw. > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:26:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: shelter(was something else) Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If one goes to the trouble to compare the Zeiss dome patent to Fuller's dome patent, it becomes quite clear that the Zeiss dome is not GEODESIC. That's why the patent office granted the patent; two different geometric methods. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:14 PM Subject: re: shelter(was something else) > From: "RAS" > Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:13:53 -0600 (snip) > Not so much his work as the blind masses that think he > invented the dome most people see today and say he invented. > This link http://www.telacommunications.com/geodome.htm > points to that subject and I didn't know this till some > weeks ago but my mom has seen this place and her sisters > husbands father help make the bloody thing. I have seen this > link some time ago, long before she ever told me. (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:32:48 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: shelter(was something else) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, the Zeiss dome patent is not geodesic, but the first version of their technology was, and at least the first planetarium shell they built had steel reinforcement in geodesic configuration. Bob Joe S Moore wrote: >If one goes to the trouble to compare the Zeiss dome patent to Fuller's dome >patent, it becomes quite clear that the Zeiss dome is not GEODESIC. That's >why the patent office granted the patent; two different geometric methods. > >-------------------------------------------- >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info >------------------------------------------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: "The DomeHome List" >To: >Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:14 PM >Subject: re: shelter(was something else) > > > > >>From: "RAS" >>Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:13:53 -0600 >> >> >(snip) > > >>Not so much his work as the blind masses that think he >>invented the dome most people see today and say he invented. >>This link http://www.telacommunications.com/geodome.htm >>points to that subject and I didn't know this till some >>weeks ago but my mom has seen this place and her sisters >>husbands father help make the bloody thing. I have seen this >>link some time ago, long before she ever told me. >> >> >(snip) > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:02:15 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hello? thus quoth: getting back to your famous conjecture about minimal shapes, this is strictly a laugh. firstly, everyone who's been trhough Bucky 101 already knows that -- and you can always review it in the online edition of _A Fuller Explanation_ -- the tetrahedron doesn't pack space, nor the octahedron, but only the two, together (and, their packing is just the dual of the packing of rhombical dodecahedra: vertices replace cells & vise-versa etc.). therefore, there is no "wall" that can be made from octants of octahedra, nor tetrants of tetrahedra, nor icosants of icosahedra. however, the latter is certainly smaller, as you have already proven by the elimination of the tetrants (if that really worked). --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:22:47 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly In-Reply-To: <3EDC053B.2090500@channel1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Ref: > http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?nsections=41 > > So I've been working on the Wong thesis. Kind of heavy > going, > but worth it. Like Joe and Dick say, it's quite a > resource. > Wong states Bauerfeld's (Zeiss engineer) first design was > indeed > what we would call a geodesic design, a subdivided > icosahedron > projected on a sphere, but it was discarded in favor of > the "lesser > circle" design shown in the patent because that held up > well enough > structurally for their purposes and was easier to > assemble. Bob Which page, please, does say this? I have yet to find it. > I think the top photo of #756 is the first design, and > the bottom photo > is the second design, though it's not clearly indicated > anywhere. > Initially they appeared to me like two views of the same > structure, That was my take as well, that they are the same structure. What do you see that indicates they are 2 different frameworks? What are the 2 locations? Both in Jena? Dick > but > on looking at the bases, I saw they are different. The > top photo certainly looks to me as a geodesic, though the > clarity is not that good that I can clearly mark the > icosahedral vertices. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:41:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly In-Reply-To: <3EDC053B.2090500@channel1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob Never mind. I found it. It starts on page 149. Thanks. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:25:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > hello? > > thus quoth: > getting back to your famous conjecture about minimal > shapes, > this is strictly a laugh. > firstly, everyone who's been trhough Bucky 101 > already knows that > -- and you can always review it in the online > edition > of _A Fuller Explanation_ -- > the tetrahedron doesn't pack space, nor the > octahedron, but > only the two, together Q. I'm very confused now, sinse I post the pictures and you still mumbeling about the same nonsense. The wall is the title of the pictures and no one ever said that the wall is build strictly by octanes or reg.tet. I will tell you this; If you or enybody else can putt a volume unit in to a smaller container than the octane let me know because it does not exists. You need to understand that these shapes I'm talkind about are irregulars and that they volume is rational in to a volume of a cube. (and, > their packing is just the dual of the packing of > rhombical dodecahedra: > vertices replace cells & vise-versa etc.). > therefore, there is no "wall" that can be made > from octants of octahedra, nor tetrants of > tetrahedra, > nor icosants of icosahedra. however, > the latter is certainly smaller, as you have already > proven > by the elimination of the tetrants (if that really > worked). Look at those pictures, and than you see what this is all about. By the way, octanes can make other structures strictly by them selfs, which is obviously something very new to you. These structures are rings ( octa rings), these rings are made from 48 octants yust like the cube is 48 identical volumetric unit contained in a cube. There are two different rings obviously something very new for you. The other structure is a pentagonal prism also consist of strictly 20 octanes. Bucky ball was yust relatively rescently accepted as a possible natural structurte. Nano tubes connected just like a chicken wire are made by that fundamental Bucky ball. Octet ring than is also possible to be found in the nature, and if not well it is found in my dissections and because it is there it must be fundamental. I have also proved the first order of indentical volumes three cuts for shapes. It is also true that deep with in any irregular or regular tet. there is a octane. It is also true that by dissecting a octane will not produce a smaller shape. It is also true than, that the octane is the bottom line. It is also true that the smallest of all shapes has .5 in volume if reg.tet. is one. Q. we have been going at this for long time now and believe me it is not a matter of as arguing, rather I need a prove to be provided by you or anybody else just is I have proven my reasoning an conjecture. frank > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:44:15 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On p. 155 Wong states Bauersfeld's original geodesic gridding was quickly abandoned. On p. 218 I think there was something else relevant, but I forget what exactly. Bob Dick Fischbeck wrote: >--- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > > >>Ref: >> >> >> >http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?nsections=41 > > >>So I've been working on the Wong thesis. Kind of heavy >>going, >>but worth it. Like Joe and Dick say, it's quite a >>resource. >>Wong states Bauerfeld's (Zeiss engineer) first design was >>indeed >>what we would call a geodesic design, a subdivided >>icosahedron >>projected on a sphere, but it was discarded in favor of >>the "lesser >>circle" design shown in the patent because that held up >>well enough >>structurally for their purposes and was easier to >>assemble. >> >> > >Bob > >Which page, please, does say this? I have yet to find it. > > > >>I think the top photo of #756 is the first design, and >>the bottom photo >>is the second design, though it's not clearly indicated >>anywhere. >>Initially they appeared to me like two views of the same >>structure, >> >> > >That was my take as well, that they are the same structure. >What do you see that indicates they are 2 different >frameworks? What are the 2 locations? Both in Jena? > >Dick > > > >>but >>on looking at the bases, I saw they are different. The >>top photo certainly looks to me as a geodesic, though the >>clarity is not that good that I can clearly mark the >>icosahedral vertices. >> >> > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >http://calendar.yahoo.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:00:49 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to whomever posted the Wong Thesis. Blair Bob Burkhardt wrote: > On p. 155 Wong states Bauersfeld's original geodesic gridding was > quickly abandoned. > On p. 218 I think there was something else relevant, but I forget what > exactly. > > Bob > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > >> --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: >> >> >>> Ref: >>> >>> >>> >> http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?nsections=41 >> >> >> >>> So I've been working on the Wong thesis. Kind of heavy >>> going, >>> but worth it. Like Joe and Dick say, it's quite a >>> resource. >>> Wong states Bauerfeld's (Zeiss engineer) first design was >>> indeed >>> what we would call a geodesic design, a subdivided >>> icosahedron >>> projected on a sphere, but it was discarded in favor of >>> the "lesser >>> circle" design shown in the patent because that held up >>> well enough >>> structurally for their purposes and was easier to >>> assemble. >>> >>> >> >> Bob >> >> Which page, please, does say this? I have yet to find it. >> >> >> >>> I think the top photo of #756 is the first design, and >>> the bottom photo >>> is the second design, though it's not clearly indicated >>> anywhere. >>> Initially they appeared to me like two views of the same >>> structure, >>> >>> >> >> That was my take as well, that they are the same structure. >> What do you see that indicates they are 2 different >> frameworks? What are the 2 locations? Both in Jena? >> >> Dick >> >> >> >>> but >>> on looking at the bases, I saw they are different. The >>> top photo certainly looks to me as a geodesic, though the >>> clarity is not that good that I can clearly mark the >>> icosahedral vertices. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >> http://calendar.yahoo.com >> >> >> >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:45:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: The Fuller Folly In-Reply-To: <3EDE5E01.4000505@domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think that would be Mr. Moore. And, thanks to Mr. Wong, too. Dick --- blair wolfram wrote: > Thanks to whomever posted the Wong Thesis. > > Blair > > > > Bob Burkhardt wrote: > > > On p. 155 Wong states Bauersfeld's original geodesic > gridding was > > quickly abandoned. > > On p. 218 I think there was something else relevant, > but I forget what > > exactly. > > > > Bob >http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Composite/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/32?nsections=41 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:58:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030604172503.79444.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- frank zubek wrote: > Q. I'm very confused now, sinse I post the pictures > and you still mumbeling about the same nonsense. The > wall is the title of the pictures and no one ever said > that the wall is build strictly by octanes or reg.tet. > > I will tell you this; If you or enybody else can putt > a volume unit in to a smaller container than the > octane let me know because it does not exists. Frank Have you thought to use irregular tets as the volume unit? > You > need to understand that these shapes I'm talkind about > are irregulars and that they volume is rational in to > a volume of a cube. 3 tets equal 1 cube in volume, in synergetic language. Isn't that rational? > (and, > > their packing is just the dual of the packing of > > rhombical dodecahedra: The dual of the rh. dodeca space tiling is your octane??? > > vertices replace cells & vise-versa etc.). > > therefore, there is no "wall" that can be made > > from octants of octahedra, nor tetrants of > > tetrahedra, > > nor icosants of icosahedra. however, > > the latter is certainly smaller, as you have already > > proven > > by the elimination of the tetrants (if that really > > worked). This is a bit past me. > Look at those pictures, and than you see what this is > all about. Okay. I'll take another look. >By the way, octanes can make other > structures strictly by them selfs, which is obviously > something very new to you. These structures are rings > ( octa rings), these rings are made from 48 octants > yust like the cube is 48 identical volumetric unit > contained in a cube. There are two different rings > obviously something very new for you. The other > structure is a pentagonal prism also consist of > strictly 20 octanes. > Bucky ball was yust relatively rescently accepted as a > possible natural structurte. Nano tubes connected just > like a chicken wire are made by that fundamental Bucky > ball. > Octet ring than is also possible to be found in the > nature, and if not well it is found in my dissections > and because it is there it must be fundamental. > I have also proved the first order of indentical > volumes three cuts for shapes. It is also true that > deep with in any irregular or regular tet. there is a > octane. Deep within??? That sounds magical. What do you mean? >It is also true that by dissecting a octane > will not produce a smaller shape. It is also true > than, that the octane is the bottom line. > It is also true that the smallest of all shapes has .5 > in volume if reg.tet. is one. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:41:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: <20030604215851.76559.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dick Fischbeck wrote: > --- frank zubek wrote: > > > Q. I'm very confused now, sinse I post the > pictures > > and you still mumbeling about the same nonsense. > The > > wall is the title of the pictures and no one ever > said > > that the wall is build strictly by octanes or > reg.tet. > > > > I will tell you this; If you or enybody else can > putt > > a volume unit in to a smaller container than the > > octane let me know because it does not exists. > > Frank > > Have you thought to use irregular tets as the volume > unit? Dick, I know where you going with this the reg.tet. is a volume unit and there is no problem with that, but I also see that one can not enclose a certain amount of volume in a lesser container than the octane. This volume is .5 If you get a any irreg.tet, enclosing a certain volume all irregulars will have more surface areas to enclose that same volume. This is the main princible fact which I can not get out of since there is no shape which would do that for the same expendirture of surface area. Put this statement to test. > > > You > > need to understand that these shapes I'm talkind > about > > are irregulars and that they volume is rational in > to > > a volume of a cube. > > 3 tets equal 1 cube in volume, in synergetic > language. > Isn't that rational? Yes it is, and cube contains also six of these irregulars and the smallest one is a octane. sO THE SMALLEST UNIT AMONG ALL SHAPES MUST THEN BE A OCTANE WHERE NO ONE CAN REDUCE THAT SURFACE TO LESS AND STILL HOLD THAT AMOUNT OF VOLUME. Sorry for the capital letters, I do not mean to shout it was a error. > > (and, > > > their packing is just the dual of the packing of > > > rhombical dodecahedra: OK, sdo what? > The dual of the rh. dodeca space tiling is your > octane??? I'm not sure about duality it may be true I do not know all I know is what I have constructed and can demonstrate. > > > vertices replace cells & vise-versa etc.). > > > therefore, there is no "wall" that can be > made > > > from octants of octahedra, nor tetrants of > > > tetrahedra, > > > nor icosants of icosahedra. however, > > > the latter is certainly smaller, as you have > already > > > proven > > > by the elimination of the tetrants (if that > really > > > worked). > > This is a bit past me. > > > Look at those pictures, and than you see what this > is > > all about. > > Okay. I'll take another look. > > >By the way, octanes can make other > > structures strictly by them selfs, which is > obviously > > something very new to you. These structures are > rings > > ( octa rings), these rings are made from 48 > octants > > yust like the cube is 48 identical volumetric unit > > contained in a cube. There are two different rings > > obviously something very new for you. The other > > structure is a pentagonal prism also consist of > > strictly 20 octanes. > > Bucky ball was yust relatively rescently accepted > as a > > possible natural structurte. Nano tubes connected > just > > like a chicken wire are made by that fundamental > Bucky > > ball. > > Octet ring than is also possible to be found in > the > > nature, and if not well it is found in my > dissections > > and because it is there it must be fundamental. > > I have also proved the first order of indentical > > volumes three cuts for shapes. It is also true > that > > deep with in any irregular or regular tet. there > is a > > octane. > > Deep within??? That sounds magical. What do you > mean? As soon I come beck from Florida I will show these facts. Every shape so far I have dissected demonstrates that the last shape in the core of any of these including a reg.tet. contains a octane in its core. I have stated this brefore, but did not have any prove of that, since I thought it will take lots of dissections, but it was easier than I thought. > >It is also true that by dissecting a octane > > will not produce a smaller shape. It is also true > > than, that the octane is the bottom line. > > It is also true that the smallest of all shapes > has .5 > > in volume if reg.tet. is one. Dick, have you lookt at the pictures under the title the wall, there are the blocks and some of the wall demonstrations, each shape has the unit edge length, no reg. tets. and the wall is build by the smallest of bricks and the absolutelly smallest is the octane. It is here, where the accute tri. as you mentioned earlier fails to work in such structure and still preserve that edge length. That accutre tri. would have a irrational volume to the cube and if not in most cases all other bricks connected to a another brick would fail to satisfy the conjecture. > Dick > > frank > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to > Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:12:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: J Clinton's conjecture Comments: To: sphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joe's Equal Central Angle Conjecture is available to all in .jpg format at: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=9 Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:36:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Citation in your web page Comments: To: Carlos Calvimontes Rojas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carlos, I used the last name of "Rojas" because the paper appeared to be by a = "Carlos Calvimontes Rojas"; however, I will move you to the "C" part of = the Master Index under "Calvimontes". (I'm not familiar with spanish = language customs.) =20 Also, I guessed that you were in Spain because the website address where = your paper is located ends in the suffex ".es" (webs.adam.es) which is = the ISO 3166 Country Digraph code for Spain. Please see = http://theodora.com/country_digraphs.html. =20 Is there any additional information that you would like me to add to = your entry, like how to contact you (University of ?, company name, = magazine articles, etc)? The corrections/additions won't show on my website until I update it in = a month or so (I hope). =20 I liked your paper in spite of the fact that I couldn't read it because = you obviously understand the fact that Fuller discovered the geometry = that Nature is using--which was his most important contribution to the = progress of humanity. Thank you for the feedback, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore Tucson, AZ, USA joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Carlos Calvimontes Rojas=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: Citation in your web page Dear Mr. Moore: In your http://www.buckminster.info/Index/Ro-Rz.htm figure my work = "Geometria de los Exapenta Segun el Numero do Oro". =20 My surname is CALVIMONTES. I am of La Paz, BOLIVIA.=20 Thanks so much. Sincerely, Carlos Calvimontes R. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:10:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: BF Comments: To: Keith@Televator.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Keith, I presume you have been looking at this page = (http://buckminster.info/Index/Dymax-Dz.htm) about the Dymaxion Car or = Dymaxion Vehicle. Because of copyright considerations, I don't have the = actual text of the references on my website. However, here are some = websites that have information about Fuller's "Omni-Medium Transport": http://www.thirteen.org/bucky/car.html (Ch 13, New York) http://sts.stanford.edu/dymaxion/ (Stanford Univ) http://www.washedashore.com/projects/dymax/ (Ben Discoe) http://www.3wheelers.com/dymaxion.html (3-Wheel cars) http://www.bfi.org/Dymaxion_PATENT.html (Patent at BFI) http://members.aol.com/bowlustrlr/fuller.html (Grant MacLaren) http://www.maxmatic.com/Dymaxion/dymaxion2.htm (Nat'l Auto Museum, Reno, = NV) You might have to use your local library's Inter-Library Loan Service to = read some of the text references. Also, I don't think the one remaining = Dymaxion Vehicle will ever be for sale, and no one is manufacturing any = replicas--as far as I know. Hope this helps, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Keith@Televator.com=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: BF Hi Joe, I was on your site, and you have references to page numbers but I = have no way to go to them. Do you happen to know what happened to the dymaxion vehicles, and if = any are for sale? Thanks Keith Keith@Televator.com J. Keith Courtway Televator Inc. 49-47 31st Street Long Island City, NY 11101-3113 Tel: 718-482-1962 Fax: 718-482-1973 http://www.dvGuide.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:10:19 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: BF Comments: To: Keith@GorillaPVC.com Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Keith, I'm forwarding your inquiry to several lists that have subscribers that = may be able to help you. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Keith@GorillaPVC.com=20 To: Joe S Moore=20 Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 12:02 PM Subject: Re: BF Hi Joe, Thanks for responding. By any chance Do you know of any source for hubs that can be used to = construct an icosahedron using extruded 2" x 10' aluminum struts (which = I already have). Thanks again. Keith ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:10:47 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: J Clinton's conjecture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have a great quote for the both of you. anyway, i finally realized that JC's was nothing like yours, that it was some thing that Bucky'd tried to do eons ago (although characteristically without any proof, other than trying to build it), that it's still just poorly characterized. what is more, there's no where, there, because he even says that he hasn't 'proven it, mathematically' -- as if there is any other way. furthermore, the "mystaque" is partly diagramatic, and is awfully silly, which just goes to show that "NASA published it, so it must be true," is a bad way to go! this reminds me: I found an old paperback of Asimov's _Before the Golden Age o'SF_, and it has an awful potbioler called "The Tetrahedra of Space," which makes the shape to be horrible, alien podcreatures -- they're both pod & rapacious creature, in one. it may have set a whole generation of idiots against Bucky, before he even existed as an advocate of geometry, but it did have one salient feature, showing the divisibility (off-budding) of tetrahedra -- if anyone ever bothered to verify it. thus quoth: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=9 --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:11:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have a great quote for the both of you. anyway, i finally realized that JC's was nothing like yours, that it was some thing that Bucky'd tried to do eons ago (although characteristically without any proof, other than trying to build it), that it's still just poorly characterized. what is more, there's no where, there, because he even says that he hasn't 'proven it, mathematically' -- as if there is any other way. furthermore, the "mystaque" is partly diagramatic, and is awfully silly, which just goes to show that "NASA published it, so it must be true," is a bad way to go! this reminds me: I found an old paperback of Asimov's _Before the Golden Age o'SF_, and it has an awful potbioler called "The Tetrahedra of Space," which makes the shape to be horrible, alien podcreatures -- they're both pod & rapacious creature, in one. it may have set a whole generation of idiots against Bucky, before he even existed as an advocate of geometry, but it did have one salient feature, showing the divisibility (off-budding) of tetrahedra -- if anyone ever bothered to verify it. thus quoth: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?Page=9 --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:24:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's very hard to tell if Zube has any idea what he's taliking about, other than the constructions on his site -- hey, Zube: put the URL for site and its alleged "wall" on your next posting (as I recall, Yahoos! (tm) aren't allowed to have a "sigfile" -- oy heil !-) even there, no-one can make heads or tails of his "44 pieces in the double-hexahedron" thing; can you? he recently added the criterium that "the wall" has to be comensurate -- as we sometimes say in mathland -- with the hexahedron. but, since that's not the case for the "octane," if that's a trirectangular tetrahdral octant of an octahedron, he doesn't really *have* a plausible criterium. wait; it *is* commensurate; it just can't build a hexahedron wthout its regular tetrahedral counterpart chunks! he also has some jabber about the "octane always being at the center of any wall," which is hard to figger out, up or away. he should really just go away from the list, if he's not going to attempt to be coherent -- or put a down-payment on my 500 May-valued Federal reserve Notes! --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:07:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Need info about zoning permits and dome building In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Anyone out there build a dome of the garden of eden type (translucent shell, detached structure inside) that can shed some light on what hurdles I should expect when we build the one we're going to build? Thanks, Leifur ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:16:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Leifur Thor wrote: > Anyone out there build a dome of the garden of eden type > (translucent shell, > detached structure inside) Yo Leifur What is detached structure inside? Wha's tha' mean? Do you consider the shell structure enough to dispense with any framework at all? I do. Can shell and framework become the same thing? Dick > that can shed some light on > what hurdles I should > expect when we build the one we're going to build? > > Thanks, > > Leifur __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:50:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "pillow dome?" --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:12:03 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leifur; I've worked with both steel frame domes and polymer extrusions in clear, white and black plastics. Blair Leifur Thor wrote: >Anyone out there build a dome of the garden of eden type (translucent shell, >detached structure inside) that can shed some light on what hurdles I should >expect when we build the one we're going to build? > >Thanks, > >Leifur > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:30:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building In-Reply-To: <20030610001601.74744.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey Dick, Like Jay Baldwin's Pillow dome, or the Eden Project. A shell in essence. And yes to both of your other comments. > From: Dick Fischbeck > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:16:01 -0700 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building > > --- Leifur Thor wrote: >> Anyone out there build a dome of the garden of eden type >> (translucent shell, >> detached structure inside) > > > Yo Leifur > > What is detached structure inside? Wha's tha' mean? > > Do you consider the shell structure enough to dispense with > any framework at all? I do. Can shell and framework become > the same thing? > > Dick > >> that can shed some light on >> what hurdles I should >> expect when we build the one we're going to build? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Leifur > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:30:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Leifur Thor Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building In-Reply-To: <3EE5F543.3070303@domeincorporated.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Great! What was your experience as far as zoning, and getting permits? Also did these domes have foundations inside? Leif > From: blair wolfram > Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:12:03 -0500 > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building > > Leifur; I've worked with both steel frame domes and polymer extrusions > in clear, white and black plastics. > > Blair > > > Leifur Thor wrote: > >> Anyone out there build a dome of the garden of eden type (translucent shell, >> detached structure inside) that can shed some light on what hurdles I should >> expect when we build the one we're going to build? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Leifur >> >> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For steel framed domes, zoning is not an issue as long as you meet setbacks and minimum square foot requirements. There won't be zoning that prevents you from building a better building, no matter what it's shape. Steel is used more and more often in square housing with steel studs, siding and shingles. Our polymer domes are all small so far, just large enough to be a seedling starter in late winter. We call them greenhouses but they are way too small to stand inside. Blair Leifur Thor wrote: >Great! What was your experience as far as zoning, and getting permits? Also >did these domes have foundations inside? > >Leif > > > >>From: blair wolfram >>Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:12:03 -0500 >>To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building >> >>Leifur; I've worked with both steel frame domes and polymer extrusions >>in clear, white and black plastics. >> >>Blair >> >> >>Leifur Thor wrote: >> >> >> >>>Anyone out there build a dome of the garden of eden type (translucent shell, >>>detached structure inside) that can shed some light on what hurdles I should >>>expect when we build the one we're going to build? >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Leifur >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:46:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Quincy Quincy Quincy >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:50:01 +0000 Leifur, this Pancho is gonna like first, don't for any reason, lend your ears to Qeensay, he will sell you a nuclear energized Larouche Pill old done secondly but not instantly (do you really believe Mr. Fuller discovered "the ONLY coordinate system of universe, or just ONE coordinate geometry system of universe?) I know that deep in your heart (and Michael Moore may not be deep enough Maybe Twain + Vonnegut + Lincoln --a yahoogle search--) you know that the play on Fuller has discovered one coordinate system of universe Mr. Fuller himself would have been happy with (maybe more happy than going round and round his own words, told by himself) Well, Leifur, please take a look to people that construct geodesically without a calculator, and that won a great zoning, etc. permits http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibit_tour/historic.html and take a look of the literature you should be taking to your ephemeral to be doem http://www.geocities.com/bigorrin/kick.htm You are not planning to take that horrible book Qeencey links about the Bush family, do you? Our crying windy hearts or whatever are more worthwhile than any great great great circle calculation, I would prefer to be hearing great great great fathers stories.... sitting on a dymaxion sofa on a dymaxion facility, of course. Gerardo García Tampico, México PS. Great for Quincy, short, concise, but worrying about others neccesities (than the Larouche pub) >"pillow dome?" > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:08:53 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Gerardo Garcia wrote: > secondly but not instantly (do you really believe Mr. > Fuller discovered "the > ONLY coordinate system of universe, or just ONE > coordinate geometry system > of universe?) It seems so, nothing less. And Nature is not using roman numerals either. > Well, LeLeifurplease take a look to people that construct > gegeodesically> without a calculator, and that won a great zoning, etc. > permits > > hthttp/wwwwwuseum.state.ilils/exhibit_tour/historic.hthtml I agree, calculators are not needed to build like Nature does, using energy most efficiently, along geodeisic lines. This dome is not one technically, but you know that, I imagine. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:27:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: arthropods MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Leifur What do you mean about arthropods, as they relate to domes? I found this on desgnscience community. "working on a 10,000 square foot home, based on the success of Arthropods, " Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:48:27 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome in NorthernCalifornia Comments: To: lthor@earthlink.net Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Leifur, I've been thinking about your Garden of Eden project. As far as I know = (remember), there have been several plans & models--but no one has = actually built one. But to my mind that's not what really needs to be = done. It is fairly well known that a double-shell dome is more energy = efficient than a single-shell, but what is really missing is what Bucky = called the "Black Box"--the equipment needed to plug into a dome (or = ANY) home to make it self-sufficient (& therefore potentially portable). See: Buckminster Fuller's Universe, p 409 Critical Path, p 337 It seems to me that a lot of technology taken from motor homes, boats, = long-haul trucks, airplanes, etc, could be adapted to be used to make = homes of any shape self-contained. Then an environmental umbrella could = be erected over the black box trailer, or the black box could be plugged = in to a conventional structure. No one has put together a "Black = Box"--as far as I know. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Joe S Moore" To: "Leifur Thor" Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 9:38 PM Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome in = NorthernCalifornia > Hey Leifur, >=20 > What exactly do you mean by "Garden of Eden Dome"? Can you point to a > reference--preferably a picture? >=20 > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Leifur Thor" > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 9:36 PM > Subject: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome in = NorthernCalifornia >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:54:32 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: arthropods Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Dick Fischbeck >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: arthropods >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:27:12 -0700 > >Leifur > >What do you mean about arthropods, as they relate to domes? >I found this on desgnscience community. > >"working on a 10,000 square foot home, based on the success >of Arthropods, " > >Dick > Arthropods (and I have not read Leifur's message) means that Carlos Castaned advised a "phylum change" what in fact means that if you have those kind of horrifying experiences you will end loving the human species, seemingly our main problem I think that what Mr. Fuller discovered is nothing in contrast with the notion we have that he did it because he loved human beings. Otherwise domebuilding would be more popular than John Lennon's "woman". remember that they say that the dymaxion house had troubles with acoustics and air circulation, something that (they say) Frank Lloyd Wright had solved many years ago Gerardo García Tampico, México _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:58:01 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: arthropods In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Gerardo Garcia wrote: > >From: Dick FiFischbeckdick_fifischbeckAHOO.COM> > >LeLeifur> > > >What do you mean about arthropods, as they relate to > domes? > >I found this on dedesgnscienceommunity. > > > >"working on a 10,000 square foot home, based on the > success > >of Arthropods, " > > > >Dick > > > > Arthropods (and I have not read LeLeifur message) means > that Carlos CaCastaned> advised a "phylum change" > > what in fact means that if you have those kind of > horrifying experiences you > will end loving the human species, seemingly our main The experience horror is not a prerequisite to love, though. > I think that what Mr. Fuller discovered is nothing in > contrast with the > notion we have that he did it because he loved human > beings. That Bucky did it with love only enhances his synergetic discoveries. Love does not get people inside for example, design science does. Anticipating and acting comprehensively, synergetics is one huge expression of love and involvement. Anyone can make each of their actions with everone on spaceship EArth in mind. Well, almost then. > Otherwise > dodomebuildingould be more popular than John Lennon's > "woman". remember > that they say that the dydymaxionouse had troubles with > acoustics and air > circulation, something that (they say) Frank Lloyd Wright > had solved many > years ago That would be fine if Wright solve it in a geodesic structure. We should be able to handle that problem ourselves if it hasn't been solved yet. I agree, life without music would suck bigtime. You can have the music on while you are creating artifacts and devices and machines and processes and pictures and models and stories and lesson plans and domes and light catches and antennas and stuff. You can have your friends over. What if tomorrow a 20,000 trangular foot inflatable dome was available at a cost of 20,000 dolars? That would be well recieved, I think. What is the cost for the tents per unit area that they now use? I'll have to check that out. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:13:57 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome in NorthernCalifornia In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A composting shitter, a small gas stove and refrigerator, a fuel cell or solar for electric supple, etc. (plus a fog gun), is all readily available our sector. A tank for drinking water, lights, are all there in walmarts camping department and the rest. I will assemble a blackbox minus the foggun, from the internet and will report back. I bet everything could get to one in a week, ups. Please state requirements of blackbox. What do ya think, 2000us? 3000? That'd be a good site, blackbox.com, where all biological needs could be satisfied with small appliances. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Leifur, > > I've been thinking about your Garden of Eden project. As > far as I know (remember), there have been several plans & > models--but no one has actually built one. But to my > mind that's not what really needs to be done. It is > fairly well known that a double-shell dome is more energy > efficient than a single-shell, but what is really missing > is what Bucky called the "Black Box"--the equipment > needed to plug into a dome (or ANY) home to make it > self-sufficient (& therefore potentially portable). > > See: Buckminster Fuller's Universe, p 409 > Critical Path, p 337 > > It seems to me that a lot of technology taken from motor > homes, boats, long-haul trucks, airplanes, etc, could be > adapted to be used to make homes of any shape > self-contained. Then an environmental umbrella could be > erected over the black box trailer, or the black box > could be plugged in to a conventional structure. No one > has put together a "Black Box"--as far as I know. > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe S Moore" > To: "Leifur Thor" > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 9:38 PM > Subject: Re: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden > Dome in NorthernCalifornia > > > > Hey Leifur, > > > > What exactly do you mean by "Garden of Eden Dome"? Can > you point to a > > reference--preferably a picture? > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Leifur Thor" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 9:36 PM > > Subject: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a Garden of Eden Dome > in NorthernCalifornia > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:17:04 -0400 Reply-To: lthor@earthlink.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "lthor@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: arthropods MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The answer to the arthropods question is nature has chosen the=20 exoskeleton as a successful design since 80% of all life on earth falls=20= within this family=2E We currently build structures patterned after=20 mammals=2E Internal frame members surrounded with muscle tissue=20 (dry wall etc) and skinned with stucco, paint and the like=2E And as=20 egocentric as this is, it's also a horrible way to make an effective=20 structure=2E As to the dome connection, the only reason a dome is an excellent=20 exoskeleton choice is its load barring qualities, and=20 tension/compression characteristics=2E=2E=2E ok? Leif Original Message: ----------------- From: Gerardo Garcia garciacabrero@HOTMAIL=2ECOM Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:54:32 +0000 To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU Subject: Re: arthropods >From: Dick Fischbeck >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU >Subject: arthropods >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:27:12 -0700 > >Leifur > >What do you mean about arthropods, as they relate to domes? >I found this on desgnscience community=2E > >"working on a 10,000 square foot home, based on the success >of Arthropods, " > >Dick > Arthropods (and I have not read Leifur's message) means that Carlos=20 Castaned advised a "phylum change" what in fact means that if you have those kind of horrifying experiences=20= you will end loving the human species, seemingly our main problem I think that what Mr=2E Fuller discovered is nothing in contrast with the notion we have that he did it because he loved human beings=2E =20 Otherwise domebuilding would be more popular than John Lennon's "woman"=2E =20 remember that they say that the dymaxion house had troubles with acoustics and=20 air circulation, something that (they say) Frank Lloyd Wright had solved=20 many years ago Gerardo Garc=EDa Tampico, M=E9xico _______________________________________________________ __________ Protect your PC - get McAfee=2Ecom VirusScan Online http://clinic=2Emcafee=2Ecom/clinic/ibuy/campaign=2Easp?cid=3D3963 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:42:32 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: geodesic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I wonder, regarding the old chestnut that he'd read in his youth, "The Tetrahedra of Space," if there's any evidence in Asimov's vast & encyclopedic How Thing Works books, of his having comprehended the divisibility of the tetrahedron. I'm assuming that he did not, although it's hard to imagine him, not following-up on such a say-so in a story. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:55:03 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: Aug12 Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 9-foot diameter, 60-strut tensegrity sphere by Fuller (1979) installed = Aug, 2002, in atrium of College of Engineering, Univ of = Wisconsin-Madison: http://www.engr.wisc.edu/news/headlines/2002/Aug12.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:06:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: colorsposter Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3 new Bucky posters: http://www.foghouse.com/current_shows/colorsposter.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:02:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > it's very hard to tell if Zube has any idea what > he's taliking about, > other than the constructions on his site -- hey, > Zube: > put the URL for site and its alleged "wall" on your > next posting (as I > recall, > Yahoos! (tm) aren't allowed to have a "sigfile" -- > oy heil !-) > even there, no-one can make heads or tails of > his "44 pieces in the > double-hexahedron" thing; > can you? I just got beck from Florida, there is 88 messages on the list, most refering to my topics. I'll do my best to putt the whole thing to the rest. > he recently added the criterium I have newer added some new criteria, maybee I added a more explanation, where you somehowe interpreted your own deeper understanding as a new "criteria" but that is not the way I presented my wall. that "the wall" has > to be comensurate > -- as we sometimes say in mathland -- > with the hexahedron. No, it not have to comessurate with a hexahedron it is comeasurate only in MY case, but you are free to do your own method. but, since > that's not the case for the "octane," if that's a > trirectangular tetrahdral > octant > of an octahedron, he doesn't really *have* a > plausible criterium. Q-stick you'll be the laughing stock of the whole list after I prove you wrong as I have done on few accasions. wait; it *is* commensurate; it just can't build > a hexahedron > wthout its regular tetrahedral counterpart chunks! > he also has some jabber about the "octane always > being at the center > of any wall," I said that octane is always in a core of any tet. in all dissections the octane is there. This has nothing to do with the wall and all it's bricks, only if you would do annalyze each brick and further dissecting any brick to smaller units, that there would be a octane in each and every case. But in the wall we are not dissectind any brick in to smaller units, do not get confused and twist all my work in to some conjecture of many criterias, I'll will provide some more drawings. Q you think, that I want to be wright under any circumstances, but that is not the case. I will provide a solid prove, that the octane is the smallest of all shapes and that no unit volume can be putt in a smaller container. THE REG.TET. IS OMITED IN THIS STATEMENT, WHERE THE REG.TET.HAS THE BEST SURFACE TO VOLUME RATIO OF ANY TET. AND I WILL SHOW WHY IT IS OMITED AND WHY THE REG.TET OF SAME VOLUME TO A OCTANE VOLUME IS NOT COMPARABLE. which is hard to figger out, up or > away. > > he should really just go away from the list, if > he's not going to attempt to be coherent -- or put a > down-payment > on my 500 May-valued Federal reserve Notes! Q-stick you always want to kick someone off the list and it is always you who gets kicked off at the end. frank > --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) > ECONOMIE?... > La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols > des Grises de Kyoto: > (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ > BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" > http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. > Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, > below): > 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 > 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE > 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU > 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 > months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:11:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fw: [geodesic dome homes] Insurance Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Note: This is forwarded from a Yahoo group. Please reply directly to Jeff with a cc to the DomeHome and Geodesic lists .] -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:02 AM Subject: [geodesic dome homes] Insurance > > I have been trying to locate an insurance company that will insure > domes. So far, no luck. Does anybody know of an insurance company > that insures domes?? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:04:31 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: arthropods In-Reply-To: <4910-2200364120174476@M2W096.mail2web.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 6/12/03 1:17, lthor@earthlink.net wrote: > The answer to the arthropods question is nature has chosen the > exoskeleton as a successful design since 80% of all life on earth falls > within this family. We currently build structures patterned after > mammals. Internal frame members surrounded with muscle tissue > (dry wall etc) and skinned with stucco, paint and the like. And as > egocentric as this is, it's also a horrible way to make an effective > structure. This is not perhaps the most appropriate way of looking at things. You may as well say that having six legs is a more successful design than having four or two. Do you wish you had six legs? Have you read Kafka? Regards, Paul Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:21:33 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: arthropods Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Paul Taylor >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: arthropods >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:04:31 +0100 > exoskeleton is what Raymond Kurzweil was asking to Santa 20 years ago for quadraplexic people. I think Leifur is close, for a exoskeleton (I mean an Armani suit in the year 2030) is all we need to go around, better if it flies, does not pollute, not noisy the only problem with the insecta way of seeing things is that somebody can come and transplant qeensi`s head in your body >This is not perhaps the most appropriate way of looking at things. You may >as well say that having six legs is a more successful design than having >four or two. Do you wish you had six legs? Have you read Kafka? > > >Regards, > >Paul Taylor _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:38:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Tessel Sphere Software Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TesselSphere: A spherical subdivision (including geodesic) utility = program by Nicholas Shey in England http://www.geocities.com/nicholasshea/tesselsphere/geodesicmodule.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 01:13:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: prior art, 1950 Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, For US patent # 2,682,235 (geodesic dome) see: http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=US002682235&PageNum=12&IDKey=4258A5E85893&HomeUrl=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526d=PALL%2526p=1%2526u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm%2526r=1%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526s1=2,682,235.WKU.%2526OS=PN/2,682,235%2526RS=PN/2,682,235 (bottom of page; sorry for long URL) US Patent & Trademark Office: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" To: ; Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 6:35 AM Subject: prior art, 1950 > Steve and Joe > > Do you have a list of prior art Bucky included with the original patent application? > > Dick > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:15:08 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome math Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I still don't know what your "wall" is, because you never post your URL. anyway, here's the current status of the debate: no-one knows what you mean! (if any one does know, then they should feel free to elucidate ... as in "the elusive hexahedron," which seems to mean "not lucid" in this context, although nothing has been presented, so far, apparently, taht isn't all found in Crystallography -- why do you think New Agers dig it, so? again, though, I'll state my "better tetrahedral brick," which is just from the analysis of three objects in a nice row: tetrahedral tetrant; octahedral octant; icosahedral icosant. clearly, the icosahedral icosant is the biggest of these three, if its smallest edge is of unit length. however, it only makes icosahedra, just as the octant makes only octahedra; so? thus quoth: I said that octane is always in a core of any tet. in all dissections the octane is there. This has nothing to do with the wall and all it's bricks, only if you would do annalyze each brick and further dissecting any brick to smaller units, that there would be a octane in each and every case. But in the wall we are not dissectind any brick in to smaller units, do not get confused and twist all my work in to some conjecture of many criterias, I'll will provide some more drawings. Q you think, that I want to be wright under any circumstances, but that is not the case. I will provide a solid prove, that the octane is the smallest of all shapes and that no unit volume can be putt in a smaller container. THE REG.TET. IS OMITED IN THIS STATEMENT, WHERE THE REG.TET.HAS THE BEST SURFACE TO VOLUME RATIO OF ANY TET. AND I WILL SHOW WHY IT IS OMITED AND WHY THE REG.TET OF SAME VOLUME TO A OCTANE VOLUME IS NOT COMPARABLE. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:31:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: domes in bay area? Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anne, Here's an alphabetical list of domes in California: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-California.htm It's far from complete & undoubtedly has errors, but its all we got--for now. Hope it helps, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:47 PM Subject: domes in bay area? > From: ABrock@aol.com > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:04:36 EDT > > As you all know, we're planning to build a dome home... but > we actually haven't been inside one yet. Does anyone have or > know of domes in the San Francisco bay area that we could > see the inside of? We've gotten the Timberline list, and are > going to see one this weekend - it's the closest, although > it's still a 2 hr drive away... We would like to see a few > more just to confirm that they're as neat as they seem to > be! Please email me directly at abrock@aol.com if you have > any ideas... > > Thanks, Anne ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:36:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Please add us to your list! Comments: To: Belinda Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Belinda & Tom, Thanks for the info. I'll update my files, but the changes won't become = visible until I upload them to my website in a month or two. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Belinda=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 8:26 PM Subject: Please add us to your list! Belinda Trujillo and Tom Stangland Santa Fe, New Mexico USA Dome Diameter 38.5' 1700 square feet Built 2002 Manufacturer: Faze Change Produx, Econodome, Wil Fidroeff, Owner, = Designer, Consultant Faze Change Produx R.R. # 1 Box 295B Sullivan IL 61951 E-mail fazechange@one-eleven.net =20 Residential Use: Belinda and Tom's Dome Home (please list as this) I have a complete set of pictures of the whole building process from = start to finish. These pics can be sent upon request via e-mail My e-mail is belinda56@comcast.net =20 Thanks for putting us on your list! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:37:23 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: books on tensegrity Comments: To: nickhead59@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Nick, My book (currently in the process of revision) is available at http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/tenseg/book/tenseg.pdf. Hugh Kenner's Geodesic Math and Anthony Pugh's Guide to Tensegrity (both Univ. of Calif. Press Berkeley, 1976 -- the former perhaps soon to be in print again) are also good resources. You can look over the References section in my book for more resources. As an aside to Geodesic readers, I note that Emmerich in staking out his claim as a tensegrity innovator claims Anthony Pugh as a former student who used his work though I don't see acknowledgement of this in Pugh's book. I gleaned this reading David Georges Emmerich, "Emmerich on Self-Tensioning Structures", pp. 29-36 in Vol. 11 (1996) No. 1 & 2 of the International Journal of Space Structures (one of a special series of articles on the controversy over who gets credit for tensegrity). Bob On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:49:45 +0800 "Nick" writes: > Hi. I'm Nick Azarcon from the College of Architecture, Philippines. > I'm currently doing my thesis this year, and would like to explore > the possibilities of tensegrity structures in our setting. My group > would like to start doing research immediately; however, there is > very little literature here about tensegrity structures and the > processes involved in constructing such. I would like to know if > your group has any publications available anywhere (over the Net, > probably), and if possible, get the whole list of books you have. > Thank you. > > > Nick Azarcon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:40:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: blair wolfram Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By far, most of our primary residences have full basements. The issue is: By adding a full basement at an additional cost of $30,000 greatly reduces the average square foot cost of the project; but still it's another $30,000. We use piers for frost footings with our steel domes, so we don't require a continuos frost wall. We've really never had a problem with permits unless it was going to be controlled by a sub-division with an architectural review committee. A city or government building inspector seems to have never been a problem as far as permits. Blair Leifur Thor wrote: >Great! What was your experience as far as zoning, and getting permits? Also >did these domes have foundations inside? > >Leif > > > >>From: blair wolfram >>Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >> >>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic >>Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:12:03 -0500 >>To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: Need info about zoning permits and dome building >> >>Leifur; I've worked with both steel frame domes and polymer extrusions >>in clear, white and black plastics. >> >>Blair >> >> >>Leifur Thor wrote: >> >> >> >>>Anyone out there build a dome of the garden of eden type (translucent shell, >>>detached structure inside) that can shed some light on what hurdles I should >>>expect when we build the one we're going to build? >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Leifur >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:53:13 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > I still don't know what your "wall" is, because > you never post your URL. Q, I have showed the wall and all its blocks,you obviously ignored that. But now there is the prove of the fact that the octane is the smallest of all shapes. There are the drawings calculations where all the idea I had, was just confirmed by those calculations. Adrian done some calculations also and they do match only that I have carried more decimals. It is under that post of final chapter for volume progression. > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 > months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:05:48 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Adrian Rossiter Subject: Re: dome math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Frank On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, frank zubek wrote: > obviously ignored that. But now there is the prove of > the fact that the octane is the smallest of all > shapes. > There are the drawings calculations where all the idea > I had, was just confirmed by those calculations. > Adrian done some calculations also and they do match Just to be clear, I calculated some volumes and areas that matched volumes and areas that you calculated However, I disagreed with several statements you made about the figures, and I don't yet know what expressions like "smallest of all shapes" mean. Adrian. -- Adrian Rossiter Email: adrian_r@teleline.es Web Site: http://www.terra.es/personal/adrian_r ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:27:18 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: dome math In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Adrian Rossiter wrote: > Hi Frank > > On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, frank zubek wrote: > > obviously ignored that. But now there is the prove > of > > the fact that the octane is the smallest of all > > shapes. > > There are the drawings calculations where all the > idea > > I had, was just confirmed by those calculations. > > Adrian done some calculations also and they do > match > > Just to be clear, I calculated some volumes and > areas > that matched volumes and areas that you calculated > However, That's all whats matter. I disagreed with several statements you > made about > the figures, and I don't yet know what expressions > like > "smallest of all shapes" mean. Sphere is the largest shape as the circle is in two dimen. also the largest one. Triangle is only a 1/2 shape and the smallest shape. Tetrahedrons are all 1/3 shapes. Reg.tet. is the smallest symmetrical shape volume =1 Octane absolutelly the smallest of all shapes volume =.5 No tet.can hold so much for so little area. Do not mix this with a reg.tet. where this tet.does not have a shorthest edge. Reg.tet.stands on it's own and has the best surface to volume ratio. frank > Adrian. > -- > Adrian Rossiter > Email: adrian_r@teleline.es > Web Site: http://www.terra.es/personal/adrian_r __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:32:45 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Zubek's Doob Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed look: the idea that the trigon is "half of a tetragon" is just crap, and the same applies to pretending that that is good definition -- "the tetrahedron is a third of a hexahedron;" what a joke, even if it complies to the typical usage of "square units" by most folks (and there's a good reason for that, in spite of what the Bucky witches say .-) I already gave the progression of the respective tetrant, octant & icosant, and the latter is clearly closest to a regular tetrahedron -- you can even look the relative volume "up" in _S_ (see my sig; heck, it's just a twentieth of ~18.51 tetvols, relative to the unit-edge dodecaXIasteron [cuboctahedron], which was imptinted in my brain, a long time, ago .-) I still don't know what you're referring to , because you refuse to "point" to it on the web; unless, it's just your same-old commercial site, but I don't have the URL for taht, either. (take a hint, and find out how to make a "macro" taht will insert it, if you can't be bothered to type it out every time, at the end of your posts, with a simple keystroke.) --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:22:54 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Organization: Synergeticists of the NorthEast Corridor (SNEC) Subject: Geodesic Structures Workshop: Last call for registrations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is the last announcement reminder to register for the Geodesic Structures Workshop in Oswego on June 28 and 29. Synergeticists of the NorthEast Corridor And SUNY Oswego, Department of Technology Present a two day hands-on workshop * * * on * * * Buckminster Fullers's Geodesic Structures * * * Joe Clinton will lead the main workshop When: Saturday 28 June 2003, 9AM - 9PM Sunday 29 June 2003, 9AM - 5PM Where: SUNY Oswego, Department of Technology Wilber Hall, Design Studio, Room 350 Travel Directions: http://www.oswego.edu/welcome/directions.html Exhibit Space Exhibit space will be available for showing artifacts. Space must be reserved by June 1. To make arrangements for space, send a request with the dimensions of your piece(s) to John Belt . Please bring a card with a brief description of your work for display in the exhibit area. Pre-registration at this event is required. Please mail your registration and payment by 22 June. On-Line Registration Form: http://snec.cjfearnley.com/registration.html Printable Registration Form: http://snec.cjfearnley.com/snec.reg.2003.06.pdf Sponsors: - Synergeticists of the NorthEast Corridor http://snec.cjfearnley.com/ - SUNY Oswego, Department of Technology http://www.oswego.edu/tech/ -- Wars are poor chisels for carving out peaceful tomorrows. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. Christopher J. Fearnley | Explorer in Universe Chris@CJFearnley.com | Design Science Revolutionary http://www.CJFearnley.com | "Dare to be Naïve" -- Bucky Fuller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:39:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Geodesic Structures Workshop: Last call for registrations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed did you see the error in Mr. C's diagrams, where the application of the variables is given? --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] (TM/sic))/ BORE/GUSH/NADIR "@" http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm. Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:40:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: Zubek's Doob In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > look: the idea that the trigon is "half > of a tetragon" is just crap, and the same applies > to pretending that that is good definition -- > "the tetrahedron is a third of a hexahedron;" > what a joke, even if it complies to the typical > usage > of "square units" by most folks (and > there's a good reason for that, in spite > of what the Bucky witches say .-) I have told you that there is no *WAY* one can be mathematically incorect by producing a same result. radius cubed times 4.188790205 is a volume of a sphere. So just because you use something more standard it does not make me incorect. Same applies to the statements above. There is no wrong way of doing science ,math. or any researche if we all come to the same conclussion. And I always do, you can not conterdict that. What you need a picture to show you that the tri. is always 1/2 of the whole. Or tet.is 1/3 of the whole it does not have to be a cube and it is not the cube, it is the whole from which we derived our value. > I already gave the progression > of the respective tetrant, octant & icosant, and > the latter is clearly closest to a regular > tetrahedron > -- you can even look the relative volume "up" in _S_ > (see my sig; heck, it's just a twentieth of ~18.51 > tetvols, 18.51 or what ever is a volume of a icosa..in reg.tet. volume, it is irrational to the reg.tet. volume. What are you mumbeling about. I'm not talking or building a icosa... > relative to the unit-edge dodecaXIasteron > [cuboctahedron], > which was imptinted in my brain, a long time, ago > .-) > I still don't know what you're referring to , > because > you refuse to "point" to it on the web; unless, > it's just your same-old commercial site, but > I don't have the URL for taht, either. (take a > hint, and > find out how to make a "macro" taht will insert it, > if you can't be bothered to type it out every time, > at the end of your posts, with a simple keystroke.) Good idea, as I remember we asked you to stop always posting the same URL, why should I enoy people like that. I did send all the pictures of the wall of the individual bricks, so I have nothing else to show. There are the drawings check them out and let me know what you think. Statements and conditions are clear,why don't you send me $250 for your felirue and we are even. frank > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" > "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of > England & Zbiggy > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" > ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection > with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:42:12 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Geodesic Structures Workshop: Last call for registrations In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > did you see the error in Mr. C's diagrams, > where the application of the variables is given? Huh? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:15:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: Zubek's Doob In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii So what's up Q-stick, you are awfully quiet are you verifying, calculating, whats up buddy. When you WILL send the $250 to shut me up. Anyway, I hope it is clear now. One can learn a lot from a dummy like me. frank > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection > with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:44:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: apples Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone ever made a Gingerbread Dome? Are there any geodesic dome dollhouses? Any geodesic dome birdcages? Or geodesic dome dog houses? -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1904 7:15 PM Subject: re: apples > From: "Cynthia Moyer" > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:45:10 -0700 > > I think you should use popsicle sticks, and then instead of > roofing felt (or tar paper), coat the dome in those caramel > sheets you're supposed to use to make caramel apples with > (those things that somehow always end up getting eaten > before ever being applied to said apples) and then you could > tile the dome with graham crackers, although you'd have to > coat them with some sort of clear plastic spray or > something, you know, to make them waterproof... a couple of > gumdrops around the windows and doors and a pretzel stick > fence and you're all set. > > Oh - and don't forgot about the chocolate lake. > > Cynthia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:15:42 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Subject: geodesic doll house In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Joe I"ve done several dome kit workshops with elementary school kids in New Bedford, MA. Part of this involved placing cartoon human figures in and around the models. I had several sets of figures made at different scales, so that the models would appear to be relatively different sizes. Assuming the figures represented 5-6' tall people, the same size dome model would appear to be 30', 60', 100' etc in diameter relative to different size people. It was interesting, and would have been better with more objects: trees, vehicles, furniture, made to different scales. Bob Sanderson > >Are there any geodesic dome dollhouses? > >Any geodesic dome birdcages? > >Or geodesic dome dog houses? > >-------------------------------------------- >Joe S Moore >joe_s_moore@hotmail.com >http://buckminster.info >------------------------------------------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: "The DomeHome List" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1904 7:15 PM >Subject: re: apples > > > > From: "Cynthia Moyer" > > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:45:10 -0700 > > > > I think you should use popsicle sticks, and then instead of > > roofing felt (or tar paper), coat the dome in those caramel > > sheets you're supposed to use to make caramel apples with > > (those things that somehow always end up getting eaten > > before ever being applied to said apples) and then you could > > tile the dome with graham crackers, although you'd have to > > coat them with some sort of clear plastic spray or > > something, you know, to make them waterproof... a couple of > > gumdrops around the windows and doors and a pretzel stick > > fence and you're all set. > > > > Oh - and don't forgot about the chocolate lake. > > > > Cynthia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:51:06 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gerardo Garcia Subject: Re: geodesic doll house Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Quindseed is going to like the pretzel idea (better if you advance how many per octane, fencer equilibrium, et al) :>> > gumdrops around the windows and doors and a pretzel stick >> > fence and you're all set. >> > >> > Oh - and don't forgot about the chocolate lake. >> > >> > Cynthia Gerardo García that does not believe someone named Cynthia writes to this list Tampico, México _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:31:38 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Zubek's Doob Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you are impossible, and no-one can help you on this list -- apparently.... but, congratulation, for giving the approximate value of "four thirds of pi!" seriously, it's true that the unit-edged icosahedron has irrationaly volume, compared to taht of the unit-edged tetrahedron, but can you compute its actual value, in terms of second-roots?... that is, what is the formula that give ~18.51? I might also ask you to find the error on Mr. C's NASA paper, just so we know that you didn't copy it all from Bucky; eh? so, where is the picture of the fabled "wall" -- what is the URL? anyway, here's my refutation, again, of your "proof" about the octahedral octant: it's in the *middle* of the sequence of tetrahedral tetrant, octahedral octant, icosahedral icosant; obviously, you have to compute the volumes for all three, but you have to note that (usually, as most of us do it) all of the initial shapes are unit-edged, so that that edge of tetrant (etc.) will be the *largest*. thus quoth: radius cubed times 4.188790205 is a volume of a sphere. So just because you use something more thus qutoh: that. I did send all the pictures of the wall of the individual bricks, so I have nothing else to show. --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:10:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: frank zubek Subject: Re: Zubek's Doob In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > you are impossible, and no-one can help you on this > list -- > apparently.... but, congratulation, > for giving the approximate value of "four thirds of > pi!" The point was, that there is more than one way to arrive at the same answer, AND STILL BE MATHEMATICALLY CORRECT, where you disagree eventhough I'm still correct. You always manage to say that this or that was done before, or somebody else or this and that. > seriously, > it's true that the unit-edged icosahedron has > irrationaly volume, > compared to taht of the unit-edged tetrahedron, but > can you compute its actual value, in terms of > second-roots?... that is, > what is the formula that give ~18.51? > I might also ask you to find the error on Mr. > C's NASA paper, Who is Mr.C'? > just so we know that you didn't copy it all from > Bucky; eh? Q -are you considering me a cruck or some sleez ball, who steal ideas from publications and than claiming them for mine. It would be very dumb, where I know many individuals here are hoocked on Bucky, some know sections word to word, beside I do not need such fame nor that I have such time to waste. I do not need to impress you or no one. > so, where is the picture of the fabled "wall" -- > what is the URL? OK, I will send it again. anyway, here's my refutation, again, > of your "proof" about the octahedral octant: > it's in the *middle* of the sequence > of tetrahedral tetrant, octahedral octant, > icosahedral icosant; > obviously, you have to compute the volumes for all > three, but > you have to note that (usually, as most of us do it) > all of the initial shapes are unit-edged, so that > that edge of tetrant (etc.) will be the *largest*. Did you seen the drawings under the title "The last chapter of volume progression"? That is all one needs to determine the volume relation for all tets. there is the prove that one can not putt a set volume in to a lesser space. What else I do need to prove. Adrian arrived at the same numbers eventhough he disagree on the interpretation of that stipulation, but that does not mean anything all I do is read the numbers and do my own interpretation, that's why I did post that prove. frank > thus quoth: > radius cubed times 4.188790205 is a volume of a > sphere. So just because you use something more > > thus qutoh: > that. I did send all the pictures of the wall of the > individual bricks, so I have nothing else to show. > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:12:05 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Tessel Sphere Software Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earl, It would appear that Mr Shea is no longer associated with King's College in London, England, and that he has dropped his Yahoo (Geocities) webpage account also. Hopefully someone will be able to track him down. Maybe the end of the school year has something to do with it. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 4:43 PM Subject: re: Tessel Sphere Software > From: Earl Holtz > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:18:02 -0700 (PDT) > > I tryed the link but got page not found... > > The DomeHome List wrote: > From: "Joe S Moore" > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:38:38 -0700 > > > TesselSphere: A spherical subdivision (including geodesic) > > utility program by Nicholas Shey in England > > > > http://www.geocities.com/nicholasshea/tesselsphere/geodesicmodule.html > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:12:51 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: geodesic doll house Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, What I had in mind was like a conventional dollhouse for little girls but a dome instead of a regular house. Same size--say 2' x 1' x 1'--but a dome instead of a box. In the last 30 years I've never seen one, and I don't understand why not!? Would be 2 or 3 stories. Maybe the roof comes off. Maybe it opens into two parts? -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:15 AM Subject: geodesic doll house > Hi Joe > > I"ve done several dome kit workshops with elementary school kids in > New Bedford, MA. Part of this involved placing cartoon human figures > in and around the models. I had several sets of figures made at > different scales, so that the models would appear to be relatively > different sizes. Assuming the figures represented 5-6' tall people, > the same size dome model would appear to be 30', 60', 100' etc in > diameter relative to different size people. It was interesting, and > would have been better with more objects: trees, vehicles, furniture, > made to different scales. > > Bob Sanderson > > > > >Are there any geodesic dome dollhouses? > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:17:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: domes in bay area? Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salijan, I'll input the new info but it won't be visible until I upload all the changes to my website in another month or so. Thanks! -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 4:50 PM Subject: re: domes in bay area? > From: Sallijan Snyder > Organization: MS Ranch > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:13:19 -0700 > > Hi Joe, > Regarding the list of domes in California, you may > be able to replace the "unknown private residence" in > Auburn with my info. > > Where the table has > Auburn Private Residence diam? year? address? ? > > You can replace with > Auburn " " 45' 1982 private Cathedralite > > I don't care to have my actual address posted, would > prefer to give that only to people who enquire on the > list. If you get an inquiry privately for this area, > feel free to forward it to me. > > -Jan > > > The DomeHome List wrote: > > > From: "Joe S Moore" > > Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:31:11 -0700 > > > > Anne, > > > > Here's an alphabetical list of domes in California: > > http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-California.htm > > It's far from complete & undoubtedly has errors, but its > > all we got--for now. > > Hope it helps, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:32:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: product Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geodesic dome mailbox (sort of): http://www.golfballmailbox.com/product.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:49:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: SoccerBall Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A soccerball headstone: http://www.clayteunis.com/ArtoftheDead/SoccerBall.jpg (Never seen one before) -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:53:23 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: viewproduct_5_e Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A soccerball cap! http://www.santazio.co.kr/viewproduct_5_e.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:38:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Emailing: taasen1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Triangular chess: http://unicornjelly.com/taasen1.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:16:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Zubek's Doob Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed actually, you don't *have* to compute the volumes of the three (tetrant, octant, icosant); since they are in a simple progression, the middle one, the octant, will *always* have the middle value, no matter whether the smallest or largest edge is "normalized." anyone with some "mathematical maturity" would see that, right away, as a simple "inversion" or "reciprocation." you still haven't sent the URL for "the wall," and it's hard to say waht else you mean to mean, since you refuse to take the ESL class. what is "the last chapter of volume progression?" thus quoth: Did you seen the drawings under the title "The last chapter of volume progression"? That is all one needs to determine the volume relation for all tets. there is the prove that one can not putt a set volume in to a lesser space. What else I do need to prove. Adrian --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... For a 1000-year "anglo-american hegemony?" "HEY, JIMMY; LET'S US and SU FIGHT" -then-PM of England & Zbiggy http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:13:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: apples Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, Do you have a picture on your website? -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "The DomeHome List" To: Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 10:18 AM Subject: re: apples > From: Steve Miller > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:16:56 -0400 > > I have a 2v coffee table. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:08:16 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: apples In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have a tensegrity trellis. No picture yet, though. Dick --- Joe S Moore wrote: > Steve, > > Do you have a picture on your website? > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "The DomeHome List" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 10:18 AM > Subject: re: apples > > > > From: Steve Miller > > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:16:56 -0400 > > > > I have a 2v coffee table. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:49:09 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Geodesic Structures Workshop: Last call for registrations In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What's this about? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > did you see the error in Mr. C's diagrams, > where the application of the variables is given? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 00:57:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Geodesic Structures Workshop: Last call for registrations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the formulae used in the diagram are incorrect; the reason for that is "elementary," Holmes! thus quoth: What's this about? >did you see the error in Mr. C's diagrams, --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:49:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Geodesic Structures Workshop: Last call for registrations In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii They are correct. F means number of faces to him, not frequency, if that's what you mean. And he is talking about Goldberg poly's, like the soccor ball. http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/ shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=152 Be more specific if you disagree. --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > the formulae used in the diagram are incorrect; > the reason for that is "elementary," Holmes! > > thus quoth: > What's this about? > > >did you see the error in Mr. C's diagrams, > > > --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected > to Board. Newsish? > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:10:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: A Buckminster Dome Comments: To: Marcus Van Lokeren Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marcus, Go here, http://buckminster.info/Index/Dome-Dt.htm, and scroll to = "Manufacturers". Look thru the lists to see if there is one that fits = your needs. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marcus Van Lokeren=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:30 PM Subject: A Buckminster Dome Dear Joe, I was wondering if you knew of anybody who could build a commercial = size dome for a year-round pool in the Buckminster Fuller style, = engineering and philosophy? Look forward to hearing from you soon. Peace, Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:03:01 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Geodesic Structures Workshop: Last call for registrations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed how can anyone be so slow?... different days need different methods! seriously, I wasn't referring to his tables, just his explanatory diagram -- the one with the copied formula that doesn't fit. however, it's also "explained" in the text, as I recall. thus quoth: They are correct. F means number of faces to him, not frequency, if that's what you mean. And he is talking about Goldberg poly's, like the soccor ball. http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/ shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=152 --Dec.2000 'WAND' Chairman Paul O'Neill, reelected to Board. Newsish? http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:34:34 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: itVillage Comments: To: James MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, What we need is a multi-million-player, real-time, online, global simulation along the lines of Bucky's old World Game. Maybe there is some way to charge a fee and maybe earn academic credits. There are plenty of global statistics available for free now, and there are plenty of alternatives to Bucky's copyrighted version of a global map. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "James" To: Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 10:15 PM Subject: itVillage > Hi Joe, > > I've been off the geodesic list for a long time. Thought I'd show you this > page I put up temporarily. It'll give you an idea of the direction I'm > heading with Buckminster fuller's work. > > http://www.itVillage.com > > Best, > James ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:23:38 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: goedomes Comments: To: ZZZSTONE@aol.com Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lacey, I don't sell any geodesic domes. I'm not sure which Geodome company you = are referring to; please see the following list: http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-Manuf-G.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ZZZSTONE@aol.com=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:04 AM Subject: goedomes Are you a seller of the goedome home kits? If so please contact me = Ltaylor@lightswitch.net or call 847-778-1880 thank you please contact = soon sincerely Lacey Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:37:25 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Map Projections Comments: To: james@itVillage.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James, I've been thinking about one of your emails. It's true that Bucky's = Constant Zenith Projection method of transferring data from a curved = surface to a flat surface (& vice versa) that he used for his map has = expired.=20 Please see http://buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosMapConstantZenith.htm. However, the copyright for his particular way of arranging the data on a = geometric shape (1st a VE & then an icosahedron) will be in force for 50 = years after his death. But that doesn't stop someone else from = arranging the data differently on any geometric shape. There are = thousands of possibilities. See = http://buckminster.info/Ideas/03-TetMapGeneral.htm. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info -------------------------------------------