From <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Sun Feb 5 03:19:49 1995 Received: from netaxs.com (root@netaxs.com [198.69.186.1]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA08621 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:49 -0500 Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [128.205.2.1]) by netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02916 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199502050819.DAA02916@netaxs.com> Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7683; Sun, 05 Feb 95 03:19:32 EST Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3749; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:31 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:31 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UBVM (1.8a)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9207" To: "Christopher J. Fearnley" Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1992 13:45:40 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly" Subject: Re: Question: efficient use of geo's ? dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU writes: -To get really good information on dome contruction call Natural -Spaces at 1-800-733-7107 and ask to have them send your book called -All About Domes. Tell Dennis that I reffered you. I got a copy of this. It's QUITE nice. :) I'm hoping eventually to put up a large (50-75') dome for myself somewhere in California, or maybe an island in the Pacific. As you can guess, this will have to wait until I have GOBS of money.... :) Pat -- Patrick G. Salsbury State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Disclaimers are silly. ;^) "All bound for Mu Mu Land!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1992 09:31:31 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU Subject: Re: Question: efficient use of geo's ? The people at Natural Spaces sare the BEST. They can answer any question that you might have . Good luck building your dome in the future. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1992 10:12:31 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly" Subject: Floating Cities Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 17:50:12 EDT From: majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) To: salsbury@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: [sulko-m@acsu.buffalo.edu: Floating Islands] To: Extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 17:05:30 EDT From: sulko-m@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mark A. Sulkowski) X-Original-To: extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu Subject: Floating Islands X-Extropian-Date: Remailed on June 29, 372 P.N.O. [21:05:49 UTC] Reply-To: Extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu Here is a recent newspaper article which I am sure my fellow extropians will find interesting. Mark Venture (This message has my permission to reproduce freely.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FLOATING ISLANDS AND CITIES MAY EASE STRESSES ON THE LAND IN THE FUTURE By Donald J. Frederick National Geographic HONOLULU -- They barely stir a ripple now, but floating islands and cities could swell into a big wave of the future. Many participants came away from a recent meeting here on ocean technologies and opportunities in the Pacific convinced that everything from waste disposal plants to condominiums has a future at sea. All the ideas that were drifting around at the meeting have one things in common: By utilizing the sea, they hope to ease stresses on the land. One of the most elaborate schemes -- a "floating downtown," just three miles offshore from Honolulu -- is envisioned by John Craven, an ocean engineering professor at the University of Hawaii. It would include rotating condominiums, office buildings and industrial facilities. "The floating city would provide much- needed housing and ease development pressure in Hawaii, and it's all doable," Craven insists. Another splashy plan proposes a 250-acre floating airport for San Diego. Located about three miles off Point Loma, the "floatport" would have two 12,000-foot runways and space for 80 airplane gates. "The facility would probably be linked to the mainland by a tunnel or a bridge, although advanced hydrofoils or other stable watercraft might be considered," says Howard L. Blood, chairman of the National Ocean Research Exploration Center, a non-profit organization that supports the project. An expanded floatport might also become a deep-water port that includes "hotels with full resort activities and subsurface cocktail lounges with underwater views of the natural sea life attracted to this man-made floating reef," says San Diego architect Doanld A. Innis. In the architect's concept, the $1.5 billion facility would be would be supported 20 feet above the water by a honeycomb of 30,000 large concrete cylinders that would make it impervious to wave motion. But most floating-island advocates concede that before engineers plunge into elaborate offshore havens, they first must test the waters with less ambitious projects. One of the quickest ways to launch floating-structure concepts would be to start with building blocks that already exist. "A lot of oil platforms aren't being used now, and if there were a serious program, you could use them to demonstrate many aspects of this technology," says Joseph R. Vadus, chairman of the U.S. marine fisheries panel of the United States-Japan cooperative program in natural resources. "Big rigs such as semisubmersibles could be linked together to form floating islands." Some of these demonstration islands could be turned into garbage dumps. Trash, which already threatens to overwhelm many conventional landfills, could be put in closed containers and barged to oil-drilling platforms 20 to 100 miles offshore, suggests Michael A. Champ, president of Environmental Systems Development in Falls Church, Va. Rather than being dumped at sea, the garbage would be converted into electricity and fresh water, using high-temperature combustion. The ash residue would be used to make concrete blocks for artificial reefs that would attract fish. One of the most innovative floating islands on the drawing boards looks like a big blue doughnut. Domed over with blue glass, it would cover about two acres and function as a working showcase for technologies that would thrive on future floating islands. "We'd like to have our doughnut or something similar in the water off the state of Hawaii within the next 10 years," says Patrick K. Takahashi, who directs the project and heads the University of Hawaii's Natural Energy Institute. Takahashi views his innovative floating island as an ocean version of the space station. "At $150 million," he says, "it would be a bargain compared to the multibillion-dollar space station and open a frontier that's a lot more accessible." One of the most unusual floating islands under consideration would serve as a port of call for a virtual city aboard a ship. Scheduled for launch in 1995, the 250,000-ton cruise ship Phoenix World City, largest ever built, would carry 6,200 passengers and 1,800 crew housed in three deck structures that look like floating condominiums. "Our engineers are already looking ahead at floating islands," says World City Corp. Chairman John S. Rogers. "The first would probably be a self-contained resort at sea for our cruise passengers." END ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1992 10:33:53 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: joel Subject: questions 1) if the problem with domes seems to be the precision and time in constructing one at a time, why has no one built the panels for sale? in other words, why have none of the dome-kit people set up to build the panels for the rest of us? From what I have seen my brother get (in the literature), everyone wants to sell you the one-time kit (so you get to have the problems of precision and time all over). In other words, why can't I order x number of panels of a certain size (if I can't afford the whole dome at once)? 2) Does anyone know the formula for the size (diameter) of a dome based on the length of an edge of the the triangle (making up the panels)? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1992 15:41:44 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Josh Ronsen Subject: Please sign me up... I do not know the proper way of going about this, but I would really like to be added to the Buckminister Fuller Discussion Group. I am: Josh Ronsen ronsen@gargoyle.uchicago.edu Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1992 19:37:28 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly" Subject: Re: questions JWALKER@UA1VM.BITNET (joel) writes: - In other words, why can't I order x number of panels of a certain - size (if I can't afford the whole dome at once)? Good idea! That's what they're designed for, after all... -2) Does anyone know the formula for the size (diameter) of a dome based - on the length of an edge of the the triangle (making up the panels)? I'm sure it's in Synergetics... :) ...FINDING it, on the other hand.... Pat -- Patrick G. Salsbury State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Disclaimers are silly. ;^) "All bound for Mu Mu Land!" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1992 09:15:18 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Unregistered Shareware User From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Subject: Dome panel formulae In-Reply-To: <92Jul10.065051edt.10163@mail.uunet.ca> (Gary Lawrence Murphy) In <92Jul10.065051edt.10163@mail.uunet.ca> salsbury@acsu.buffalo.edu writes: > JWALKER@UA1VM.BITNET (joel) writes: > - In other words, why can't I order x number of panels of a certain > - size (if I can't afford the whole dome at once)? > Good idea! That's what they're designed for, after all... > > -2) Does anyone know the formula for the size (diameter) of a dome based > - on the length of an edge of the the triangle (making up the panels)? > I'm sure it's in Synergetics... :) > ...FINDING it, on the other hand.... Actually, Pat and Joel, the _method_ is in Synergetics, but not the actual realization of the method; you will need to take quite a jump from the circuit-patterns to the real metrics --- I think part of this trouble is because nature does not cut out panels or stamp patterns on a sheet, but _grows_ it's domes from the inside out. Fear not, however: the reference you need is Hugh Kenner's "Geodesic Math and How to Use It" published by the University of California Press (1976 - ISBN 0-520-02924-0) This is an excellent book for the hobbyist model builder, but also show geometric derivations for a number of approaches to carving up the surface of a sphere into the smallest practical number of different shaped parts, which is the key matter in dome fabrication. The book also discusses tensegrity designs, although I believe Hugh has since release a volume devoted to tensegrity. For those without calculators :-), the appendix of the book lists the dome-vertex values for many practical frequencies in the basic polyhedral forms. Now for a special request: On trying to contact Natural Spaces, I find their 800 number is not accessible from Ontario. Could someone please phone them for me and ask them to send a copy of their basic info package? Let me know by email to garym@maya.isis.org first, so we don't end up jamming their phones and my mailbox with a thousand requests ;-) Have a great day! -- Gary Lawrence Murphy -- garym@maya.isis.org -- (613) 230-6255 -------------------------------------------- "The present moment is a powerful goddess." - Goethe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1992 11:40:11 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU Subject: RE: Dome panel formulae I would be happy to do so if no one else has. Gary, I would love to talk more with about domes. I'm not to swift with the computer but I'll try to answer all of your questions as a builder of my own dome. If you want me to call Natural Spaces please send me your correct mailing address. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1992 11:27:56 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU Subject: RE: questions Try contacting Natural Spaces at 800-733-7107 ask for Dennis and he can answer all of your questions and probably sell you the panels you want or sell you a connector system and the plans to cut your own panels. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1992 21:05:00 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: GM07661@SWTEXAS.BITNET Subject: RE: questions i just remembered, when i went to school in waco,tx there was a multi dome structure that was built as a funeral home. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1992 16:13:48 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: "The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly" Subject: Re: Please sign me up... rons@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Josh Ronsen) writes: - I do not know the proper way of going about this, but I would really -like to be added to the Buckminister Fuller Discussion Group. - I am: - Josh Ronsen - ronsen@gargoyle.uchicago.edu - Thank you. This is the "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with bitnet LISTSERV operations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@UBVM.BITNET ******NOT****** to LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET! LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@UBVM.BITNET is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. (And you don't want to look like a jerk having everyone see your "SUB GEODESIC John Q. Public" command! ;^) ) This list is also linked to USENET in the group bit.listserv.GEODESIC You can subscribe to the list, [thereby helping us to have an accurate idea how many people are reading the group] and still read the messages through news, if you like. (That's what I do. I prefer not getting every post in my e-mail, but I want people to be able to find my address, if necessary.) If you'd like to be on the membership list, but not get mail, then after you subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET with the message SET GEODESIC NOMAIL This will remain in effect until you use SET GEODESIC MAIL to change it again. If you want to receive copies of everything you send to the list, use the command SET GEODESIC REPRO. If you DON'T want copies, use SET GEODESIC NOREPRO. (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe.) See you on the list! -Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick G. Salsbury State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Disclaimers are silly. ;^) -- Patrick G. Salsbury State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Disclaimers are silly. ;^) "All bound for Mu Mu Land!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1992 14:55:56 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Unregistered Shareware User From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Subject: Re: RE: Dome panel formulae In-Reply-To: <92Jul13.211301edt.10028@mail.uunet.ca> (Gary Lawrence Murphy) Tom, This message should be going out to you and to the list (so they know I've taken you up on your very kind offer!) Unfortunately, I am far too up on the workings of these computer things (now 17 years experience and in a boring job now --- if anyone out there is hiring ;-) and I would be more than happy to help you get the full benefit of this particular aspect of the Global Village. I do have your phone number and I had planned to get in touch with you over last weekend, but schedules aren't always as congenial as I'd like. I will however, take you up on your offer to call Natural Spaces --- my mailing address is as follows: Gary Lawrence Murphy 279 Fifth Avenue Ottawa, Ontario Canada K1S 2N4 I also invite anyone else who may find e-mail a little awkward to write to me, either about domes (esp. Tensegrity), synergetics, or internetworking --- please, if you do write, include an e-mail return address as I personally find it the most convenient vehicle and you are far more likely to get a prompt reply (my e-mail address reaches my dining room) than if you must wait until I can use my Very Noisy Printer ;-). Have yourselves a great day! -- Gary Lawrence Murphy -- garym@maya.isis.org -- (613) 230-6255 -------------------------------------------- "The present moment is a powerful goddess." - Goethe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1992 08:00:34 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU Subject: Re: RE: Dome panel formulae I will give Natural Spaces a call today. My only problem with using the computer is that I'm a very poor typist and I get very frustrated trying to get things to look the way I want them to look. When I suggested that you call I didn't realize that you lived in Canada. Holy cow I did this without screwing it up!! Have a great day yourself. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1992 09:24:00 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: MCARTER@BENTLEY.BITNET Subject: unsubscribe Please unsubscribe me from the Geodesic list. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:52:57 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: THE END IS NIE! Subject: RE: RE: questions Oh, yes, It's the Natural Spaces Sales Rep again. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:41:42 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: OPIRG Subject: USENET gating - problems(?) Sorry about this, but: I have been reading this group through a gateway to internet for ~1 week, and have seen (since my initial reading) only 1 article posted - apparently in reply to a message that I do not have. If this were a standard USENET group, I would have assumed that the traffic had distribution set to USA or something similar, and I was simply not getting it here. However, as this is a mailing list, I'm not sure what's up. Has there been only one post recently? If anyone has more information regarding the above, please email me at the address below (if possible). Also, I am not sure that this article will get anywhere - I would appreciate at least one reply from each of USENET and BITNET. I realize that I may be asking for a flood of mail here, so if you could make the Subject: line read something obvious like USENET gating, I would much appreciate it. One final note: not having seen a FAQL, I ask 1) does one exist, and how can I get it, and 2) is this group/list for the discussion of all of Fuller's work, or only geodesics? Sorry for such a long post... Thanks, Christopher Allen (wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:48:00 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Terry Cooper, Computing Services, x2014" Subject: Re: USENET gating - problems(?) Christopher, I got your message. Prior to receiving your message, I had gotten only one message in several weeks. So, there doesn't seem to be much activity on this list. ...terry (Southeastern Louisiana University, Hammond, Louisiana) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:02:25 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU Subject: RE: RE: questions Oh, NO, It's NOT the Natural Spaces Sales Rep again !!! I own a dome that I constructed myself with their system and believe in the system. I also believe in sharing my experiences in dome building with other interested people. I'm sorry that you have such a hard time accepting that. It almost sounds as if you are jealous or maybe envious. In any case I'm tired of being accused of being something that I'm not. So get a life and bother someone else. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:08:45 PDT Reply-To: Richard Everman Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Richard Everman Subject: Re: RE: questions In message <9207311405.AA09922@ka.reg.uci.edu> List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works writes: > Oh, NO, It's NOT the Natural Spaces Sales Rep again !!! I own a dome that > I constructed myself with their system and believe in the system. I also > believe in sharing my experiences in dome building with other interested > people. I'm sorry that you have such a hard time accepting that. It almost > sounds as if you are jealous or maybe envious. In any case I'm tired of being > accused of being something that I'm not. So get a life and bother someone > else. I'm new to this listserv. Should I know what this message refers too? Thanks Richard Everman Associate Registrar 215 Adm Bldg University of California, Irvine Irvine, CA 92717 USA (714) 856-7901 (voice) (714) 856-7896 (fax) reverman@ka.reg.uci.edu (email) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:46:46 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jim Lutz Subject: Re: RE: questions > > Oh, NO, It's NOT the Natural Spaces Sales Rep again !!! I own a dome that > > I constructed myself with their system and believe in the system. I also > > believe in sharing my experiences in dome building with other interested > > people. I'm sorry that you have such a hard time accepting that. It almost > > sounds as if you are jealous or maybe envious. In any case I'm tired of being > > accused of being something that I'm not. So get a life and bother someone > > else. > > I'm new to this listserv. Should I know what this message refers too? > Thanks Richard, I'm wondering the same thing. Jim Lutz