From <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Sun Feb 5 03:19:56 1995 Received: from netaxs.com (root@netaxs.com [198.69.186.1]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA08641 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:56 -0500 Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [128.205.2.1]) by netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02928 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199502050819.DAA02928@netaxs.com> Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7684; Sun, 05 Feb 95 03:19:41 EST Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3763; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:40 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:37 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UBVM (1.8a)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9304" To: "Christopher J. Fearnley" Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1993 00:44:13 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Subject: SOLAR POWER I've just bought an older house (in the San Francisco bay area). Heating is not adequate in the house, and the 100 amp service is just barely sufficient now for the three living units in the house. Before exploring new central heat to replace an old gas in-wall unit, and/or electric baseboard that might need higher amp service into the house, I'd like to know where we've come on commercially available solar technology. We get lots more sunshine than I used to get in New England, and perhaps it now pays to go solar. Last time I checked (dozen years ago or so), the payback time for installing solar was about 15 years, and the lifespan of the equipment was about 15 years, and the equipment wasn't highly efficient. I'd be most grateful for any updates on what is now available in solar for heat, electric power, and/or hot water systems. Inclusion of data on costs, lifespan, and efficiency would be helpful, as would referrals to any specific sources/dealers whom you have found to provide quality service. Please respond by email to me with your information. I will be happy to forward a summary of the responses to those who ask. Many thanks!! -- Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty! (rickk@public.btr.com) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 03:56:16 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Gordon Couger Organization: Oklahoma State University, Stillwater Subject: program for geodesic domes I Would like to find a computer program that will do the calculations for the structural members of a geodesic dome. I program that does strength analysis of domes would be nice also. Thanks in advance Gordon Gordon Couger Agriculture Engineering Oklahoma State University 114 Ag Hall, Stillwater, OK 74074 gcouger@olesun.agen.okstate.edu 405-744-9763 day 624-2855 evenings ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 08:08:49 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Christopher L. Weeks" Subject: Dome software Gordon Couger asks about software for analysis of geodesic domes. If you all have any information of this or like software, please reply to the list in public. Thank you, Christopher L. Weeks c576653@mizzou1.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 17:08:55 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Fred Cooper Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: <9304121312.AA14930@bwnmr4.harvard.edu>; from "Christopher L. Weeks" at Apr 12, 93 8:08 am Hey folks, AutoCAD.... Omega ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 10:29:00 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Gordon C. Muth III" Subject: Re: Dome software i don't know of any software, but i would be willing to write something in fortran (the only lang. i know currently) if someone would provide me with the formulae. i am using vax fortran but could write it to compile with any fortran77 compiler. you can e-mail me direct with the info, but i won't be able to start work on it till the end of this semester. gordon muth gm07661@academia.swt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 11:50:34 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Francois Dion Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: <199304141539.AA07159@condor.CC.UMontreal.CA> from "Gordon C. Muth III" at Apr 14, 93 10:29:00 am Beyond the ultraworld of Gordon C. Muth III: > > i don't know of any software, but i would be willing to write > something in fortran (the only lang. i know currently) if someone > would provide me with the formulae. i am using vax fortran but > could write it to compile with any fortran77 compiler. C would be more portable... I have yet to see somebody use fortran on an IBM pc or Macintosh (but then i'm one of the lucky who has never seen a line of cobol and has always programmed in C in workplaces...) What kind of input and output the program should have? I mean is it a graphic rendition or simply to give a height and a diameter and a edge lenth and the program will calculate angles? Whatever the needs, it seem pretty trivial. Ciao, -- Francois Dion ' _ _ _ CISM (_) (_) _) FM Montreal , Canada Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA (_) / . _) 10000 Watts Telephone no: (514) 343-7511 _______________________________________________________________________________ Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 11:04:44 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Christopher L. Weeks" Subject: Dome software I agree about the c code's portability. I would like to have a GUI which allows me to define a 3-d curved surface, either mathematically or graphically with my mouse, and after taking in some user input detailing the degree of geodesic structuring, will produce output in the form of plans to build from, a data file used for DKBtrace or Persistence of Vision, and/or a wireframe graphic. Other features which would be fun to play with might include; forming different geodesic structures from user- defined polyhedrons, forming structures which follow different geodesic-like rules for growth, etc... Aside from the software, as I understand it, to form a geodesic structure from, say a cube, you can extend the midpoint of each face of the cube so that it lies on the surface of the sphere defined by the corners of the cube. Is it called geodesic math when you extend points on the surface of the cube other than the midpoint? What if you extend lines or polygons rather than points? I see that it would cause non-triangular sides to form, has there been any significant study of this? What's it called? It seems like many of the structural benefits gained by "classical" geodesic structuring would be retained by this sort of forming, but would create more intricate patterns and shapes. Christopher L. Weeks c576653@mizzou1.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:55:02 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Francois Dion Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: <199304141619.AA07705@condor.CC.UMontreal.CA> from "Christopher L. Weeks" at Apr 14, 93 11:04:44 am Beyond the ultraworld of Christopher L. Weeks: > > I agree about the c code's portability. > > I would like to have a GUI which allows me to define a 3-d curved surface, Woah! So much for trivial... This is a major application now... i tought it was kind of a command line program that would output a plg or autocad or renderer file... The core of the program is basically to put the formulaes into C code, which (once you have these formulaes) should take less than a day (unless there is something i dont see). Outputting a renderer file is another day. But a graphics interface (unless it is designed for windows, in which case it wouldn't be portable at all) is a huge work and is not portable easily. So, who has formulaes? Do we have to reinvent the wheel? Ciao, -- Francois Dion ' _ _ _ CISM (_) (_) _) FM Montreal , Canada Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA (_) / . _) 10000 Watts Telephone no: (514) 343-7511 _______________________________________________________________________________ Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 14:37:10 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Fred Cooper Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: <9304141700.AA19820@bwnmr4.harvard.edu>; from "Francois Dion" at Apr 14, 93 12:55 pm Folks, I've said it before and I'll say it once again... AUTOCad. It'll do everything that you have asked for. Frederick Cooper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:40:29 MDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Christopher McRae Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Apr 93 12:55:02 EDT." <9304141657.AA17932@polaris.cognet.ucla.edu> This should help... Author: Kenner, Hugh. Title: Geodesic math and how to use it / by Hugh Kenner. Berkeley : University of California Press, c1976. Description: xi, 172 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Subjects: Geodesic domes -- Mathematical models. Polyhedra -- Tables. Also, here is a snippet from an old copy of the Comp.graphics FAQ: 15) How to tesselate a sphere. One simple way is to do recursive subdivision into triangles. The base of the recursion is an octahedron, and then each level divides each triangle into four smaller ones. Jon Leech has posted a nice routine called sphere.c that generates the coordinates. It's available for FTP on ftp.ee.lbl.gov and weedeater.math.yale.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 22:26:30 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: james anderson Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 14 Apr 93 12:55:02 -0400. <9304142154.AA12678@Athena.MIT.EDU> the formulae are in a nasa research report from the seventies (sixties?) i've hesitated to respond to this as all my files are presently in a container somewhere between here (boston) and berlin, so i can't say anything beyond the pointer that, if you get one of those old dome-books from the seventies, they have a pointer to these reports, which, in turn, have the formulas you're all looking for. i've got them coded up in lisp, but then y'all are interested in protability... james. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 04:53:35 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Gordon Couger Organization: Oklahoma State University, Stillwater Subject: Re: Dome software In article <9304141550.AA01880@brise.ERE.UMontreal.CA> Francois Dion writes: >Beyond the ultraworld of Gordon C. Muth III: >> >> i don't know of any software, but i would be willing to write >> something in fortran (the only lang. i know currently) if someone >> would provide me with the formulae. i am using vax fortran but >> could write it to compile with any fortran77 compiler. > >C would be more portable... I have yet to see somebody use fortran on an IBM >pc or Macintosh (but then i'm one of the lucky who has never seen a line of >cobol and has always programmed in C in workplaces...) > >What kind of input and output the program should have? I mean is it a graphic >rendition or simply to give a height and a diameter and a edge lenth and >the program will calculate angles? Whatever the needs, it seem pretty trivial. > What I am looking for is a program that gives edge length and the angles inorder to make the hubs and struts. For graphics a line drawing of a cross section of the dome on a grid. Input diameter, height and max strut lengt would suit my uses. I down loaded sphere.c which gives cordinates for the vertices. I should be able to figure it out. I think. I am very pleased with the number and quality of responses. Gordon Gordon Couger Agriculture Engineering Oklahoma State University 114 Ag Hall, Stillwater, OK 74074 gcouger@olesun.agen.okstate.edu 405-744-9763 day 624-2855 evenings ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 08:21:00 CDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Gordon C. Muth III" Subject: Re: Dome software now if only we could AFFORDit! gordon muth student ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 11:56:25 -0400 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Francois Dion Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: <199304150207.AA13933@condor.CC.UMontreal.CA> from "Fred Cooper" at Apr 14, 93 02:37:10 pm Beyond the ultraworld of Fred Cooper: > > Folks, > I've said it before and I'll say it once again... > AUTOCad. Isn't it supposed to be Ay carrumba! I could probably answer that AUTOCad is able to do that kind of thing, but is very far from a convivial interface. Also, the price is not right... And btw, we are looking for something portable... Ciao, -- Francois Dion ' _ _ _ CISM (_) (_) _) FM Montreal , Canada Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA (_) / . _) 10000 Watts Telephone no: (514) 343-7511 _______________________________________________________________________________ Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 11:52:17 MDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Christopher McRae Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 Apr 93 04:53:35 GMT." <9304150720.AA03058@polaris.cognet.ucla.edu> I have a reference for a NASA Tech Report (circa 1968-9) on dome component calculation techniques. It was written by someone working directly with Bucky. I was planning to bring it in to post, but I forgot it again. I found the reference in the back of DomeBook I or II, and then found a copy of the paper on microfiche in the UCLA Engineering Library. The paper includes the Fortran source. If you can't find it and really want it, I can dig it (the reference) up. Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher McRae mail: mcrae@ckm.ucsf.edu UCSF Center for Knowledge Management at&t: 415/476-3577 530 Parnassus Avenue, Box 0840 fax: 415/476-4653 San Francisco, California 94143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 16:49:08 EDT Reply-To: baumbach@atmel.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Peter Baumbach Subject: A Bucky type or a crackpot? It looks like this list still has some life to it. On the April 14th "As It Happens" radio show of the CBC, I heard an interview with a fellow who claims to have invented something pretty fantastic. He claims he invented a plastic which can handle temperatures that one might find in a nuclear explosion. He says he has taken a sheet of this stuff 1mm thick and subjected it to the heat of a blow torch. He includes a description of a person holding the sheet horizontally and placing an egg on top while heating everything with the torch from below for 4 minutes. The egg is removed without gloves and cracked open to show that it has not cooked. The plastic, however, has gotten red hot. Who is this person? His name is Morris Ward, and he lives in Glenc????se (?) Scottland. I am recalling all of this from scribbled notes. I am not sure what the name of the place in Scottland is. He says he is a hairdresser! He has been playing with polymers for 18 (?) years. Does a hairdresser use polymers? He says on june 25th 1989 (?) he was at some sort of military research place and saw that they were trying to invent a plastic that could handle a nuclear blast, and that they have been trying for 45 years without success. Their best success reached only 10% of their goal. In a couple of years, he says he has done what they couldn't do. He calls the plastic "starlight" plastic. He says he has provided samples to labs around the world, and enjoys their expressions when they test it. Is this guy a crackpot or brilliant like Buckminster Fuller was? Has anyone heard about this story? Does anyone have experience using the internet to find answers to questions like these? Peter Baumbach baumbach@atmel.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 14:40:17 PDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Cary Subject: Re: A Bucky type or a crackpot? I heard that story on ABC radio news... Apparently the British authorities are investigating this story VERY closely.. (Wouldn't you?!) -steve cary@scripps.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 04:33:03 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Michael Justice Organization: If you could see my office, the answer would be obvious. . . . Subject: Re: Dome software In article <9304150226.AA08886@scharoun> james anderson writes: >the formulae are in a nasa research report from the seventies (sixties?) > >i've got them coded up in lisp, but then y'all are interested in >portability... If you have the Lisp on-line, please, by all means, post it. Lisp is pretty eathy, er, easy to convert between dialects. Or, hey, some poor sap^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hgracious volunteer could convert it to C. :-) (Yeah, I'll give it a shot -- but it may take a while; work is going to be driving me crazy until mid-June.) -- Michael. -- Michael A. Justice | "President Clinton had to reassess his position on justice@panix.com | this particular promise, and for a very solid reason: NRA Life/ILA/ISRA | He's just another suit-wearing weasel." Libertarian Party | -- Dave Barry, "Flush with Money" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 16:33:38 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Trimtab Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 12 Apr 1993 17:08:55 EDT from I have to find my old trimtabe bulletins but I remembera program that was writ ten to do exactly this (calculate dome geometry and stresses). I don't know enough about autocad but while I believe it will do the job, it do es so in a computationally ineficeint manner since geodesics is not an xyz geom etry and autocad's reference is XYZ. Does Autocad allow for use of spherical t rigonmetry as a coordinate system. Check out Anthony Pugh's book "Geodesic Mat h and how to use it" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 16:42:41 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Trimtab Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:55:02 -0400 from Back to the source my friends. Synergetics 1 and 2. Also as previousyy mentio ned Tony Pugh's Geodesic Math and how to use it. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 16:46:16 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Trimtab Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 14 Apr 1993 14:37:10 EDT from Even if autocad will do the job (which I belive it will, although not through what could be considered optimal algorythms) someone would still have to set th e formalae up in Autocad. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 16:49:50 EDT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Trimtab Subject: Re: Dome software In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:40:29 MDT from I knew the when I said Tony Pugh I was wrong. Sorry about that. It was of cou rse Hugh Kenner. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 01:48:19 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Matthew Clark Organization: New Mexico State University Subject: New Dome Technology Enchanted West, Inc. manufactures lightweight, precision-molded, fiberglass panels for building geodesic domes. Contact us at mclark@scf.nmsu.edu for more information. Matt Clark