From <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Sun Feb 5 03:20:03 1995 Received: from netaxs.com (root@netaxs.com [198.69.186.1]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA08661 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:20:03 -0500 Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [128.205.2.1]) by netaxs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02946 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:20:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199502050820.DAA02946@netaxs.com> Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6908; Sun, 05 Feb 95 03:19:47 EST Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3781; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:46 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 03:19:43 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UBVM (1.8a)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9312" To: "Christopher J. Fearnley" Status: RO ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 01:14:39 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Fuller and emergency shelters > Fuller's other writings and speeches from this period deliver (broadly) > the same message: that domes, filled with power stations, hospitals, > factories, etc., preassembled in the United States and airlifted to > underdeveloped countries, would yield overnight industrialization and > the reconstitution of these nations into American-style societies and > economies. This vision is a far cry from the emergency shelters; it is > also the one Fuller invested more in, and in which he was more > interested. The domes weren't empty, either in a literal or political > sense. > Cheers, > Alex Soojung-Kim Pang > U.C. Berkeley The fact remains, that in presenting US Marine readers with visions of made-in-t he-USA living standards, to be spread around the globe to "make the world safe f or democracy," Fuller is (1) replacing fantasies of ultimate killingry with visi ons of livingry as the primary means to the desired end (victory for the USA) an d (2) casting the problem as one of "detouring war" -- a goal shared by all side s in the 'cool war' (thus common ground with the enemy is established). I think it is Fuller's ultimate faith in the power of *artifacts* and visions fo cusing on same, that allows him to work in ways that, from a political point of view, are ideologically inconsistent. How can he sound like such a cold warrior and still be the "gentle genius" of 1960s pop culture? I think we need to take Fuller at his word here: he was radically *apolitical* and willing to propagan dize livingry artifacts in whatever ways would speak to his primary audience, in the this case the defense establishment. I don't have a problem with these ideological position once I see the common thr ead throughout: only be raising living standards globally can we detour war. Ob viously a Third World (both inside and outside USA national boundaries) in const ant need of emergency shelters cannot be the end for which we are striving. The goal was to raise living standards -- and since the USA is not living at the sta ndard Fuller envisioned either, it is not the case that his futurism was merely a projection of contemporary USA living standards on the rest of the world. USA people are living in squalor, in pathetic housing, under onerous and fearful co nditions compared to where Fuller hoped we would be by this time. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 11:21:45 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Gordon C. Muth III" Organization: Southwest Texas State University Subject: Re: Fuller and emergency shelters [previous deleted] I don't have a problem with these ideological position once I see the common thread throughout: only be raising living standards globally can we detour war. if raising living standards globally can eliminate greed and intolerance then perhaps avoidance of war would be a result. the problems we face now are not due to housing or lack of housing, but the way we perceive and think. the things we place value in are not *truely* important, while the things which are *truely* important we seem not to value. until we can change the way we think about physical objects we could all have fully stocked 5K sq ft homes and there would still be war. Obviously a Third World (both inside and outside USA national boundaries) in constant need of emergency shelters cannot be the end for which we are striving. but it could be a means to the end for which we should be striving. The goal was to raise living standards -- and since the USA is not living at the standard Fuller envisioned either, it is not the case that his futurism was merely a projection of contemporary USA living standards on the rest of the world. fuller was naive to beleive that because he had come up with a better way to live that the world at large would one day accept it. USA people are living in squalor, in pathetic housing, under onerous and fearful conditions compared to where Fuller hoped we would be by this time. well, i live in a tent and i like it! people do not need golden fixtures to be happy, they just need a safe place where they can grow. while there does seem to be a lack of safe housing currently, this is more a result of the society in which we live that the houses we inhabit. -- Kirby gordon muth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 15:32:00 LCL Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Booker Subject: Dymaxion World Map [Text item: Text_1] Hello virtual friends, I wonder if anyone could tell me where I might obtain one of Mr. Fuller's Dymaxion World Maps (as a poster)? My tenth grade geography teacher had one, and I have been looking for one ever since (yes, all those years ago!). Much appreciation in advance. Yours in tensegrity Gary Booker Gary_Booker@Intersolv.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 23:07:12 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: Dymaxion World Map In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 1 Dec 1993 15:32:00 LCL from Try the Buckminster Fuller Institute 1743 S La Cienega Blvd. Los Angeles CA 90035 (310)837-7710 Or World Game Institute 3508 Market ST Philadelphia PA 19104 (215)387-0220 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 23:55:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Fuller and emergency shelters > the problems we face now are not due to housing or > lack of housing, but the way we perceive and think. Thanks for your thoughts Gordon. Would you agree that feeling "ultimately its a hopeless situation for most people, so I'd better get what I can, while I can, for me and mine" is a perceptual problem? I think a lot of the crummy values you identify stem from feeling resigned about the big picture -- feeling it can't really work out in a big way. Fuller wanted that to become the naive view -- savvy sophisticates know we can make it. If a Hollywood-style extravaganza were mounted to helicopter giant domes to refugee areas (inside of which tents could be pitched, or shacks erected), don't you think lots of young folks would love the adventure to "be all that you can be"? Better than the military (or a better job for the military to be doing), no? > fuller was naive to beleive that because he had come > up with a better way to live that the world at large > would one day accept it. Well, if he thought his vision was *exactly* what would bear out, yes. But I think his longing for a world without so much depravation at the basic survival level was just the broad brush strokes. His little blurbs on the back of other futurists' books (e.g. Gerard O'Neill's -- a maglev guy) show that he was open-minded enough to endorse other visions. Of course he thought his inventions would have a role to play. But many inventors have thought this, and were not naive to think it -- was Edison naive to think the light bulb would catch on? BTW, I think there *is* a basic shortage of adequate housing even now. I like Fuller's idea of converting a lot of downtown office space to dorm/workspace units, while wiring the suburbs for "learning a living" in a tele-democracy. That would cut back on the mad ebb and flow of millions of tons of steel (i.e. cars) to and from "the office" (hi honey, I'm home). -- Kirby PS: I've too have lived in a tent for months at a time, with no other place to call home (my whole family was in the tent with me). Not a bad life, in the right context (the time by a lake was best). I've also lived at least half my life outside the USA, much of the time in the so-called 3rd World. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 23:56:47 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Baraka The movie BARAKA is worth seeing. Grand tour of the earth, looking at religious life, urban life, ritual, death, nature. Once scene shows those miles and miles of dead airplanes that Fuller kept talking about as an already mined source of metals for his recyclable, remotely deployable, energy efficient "smart houses" (not necessarily made in the USA -- not necessarily a USA to make them in). -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 17:04:39 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Gordon C. Muth III" Organization: Southwest Texas State University Subject: Re: Fuller and emergency shelters >> the problems we face now are not due to housing or >> lack of housing, but the way we perceive and think. >Thanks for your thoughts Gordon. Would you agree that >feeling "ultimately its a hopeless situation for most >people, so I'd better get what I can, while I can, for >me and mine" is a perceptual problem? yes, a perception driven by capitalism and the media. >I think a lot of >the crummy values you identify stem from feeling resigned >about the big picture -- feeling it can't really work out >in a big way. Fuller wanted that to become the naive >view -- savvy sophisticates know we can make it. we know we can make it but at what expense? cides what is the big picture? we probably ought to bring the picture into focus so others might more readilly accept it. >If a Hollywood-style extravaganza were mounted to helicopter >giant domes to refugee areas (inside of which tents >could be pitched, or shacks erected), don't you think lots >of young folks would love the adventure to "be all that you >can be"? Better than the military (or a better job for >the military to be doing), no? sounds like the peace corps! one of the neat things about domes is that the natives could put together dome kits with little training or assistance from outside agents. >> fuller was naive to beleive that because he had come >> up with a better way to live that the world at large >> would one day accept it. >Well, if he thought his vision was *exactly* what would >bear out, yes. But I think his longing for a world without >so much depravation at the basic survival level was just >the broad brush strokes. His little blurbs on the back of >other futurists' books (e.g. Gerard O'Neill's -- a maglev >guy) show that he was open-minded enough to endorse other >visions. Of course he thought his inventions would have >a role to play. But many inventors have thought this, and >were not naive to think it -- was Edison naive to think >the light bulb would catch on? the lightbulb created an industry, it did not attempt to change an industry. >BTW, I think there *is* a basic shortage of adequate housing >even now. I like Fuller's idea of converting a lot of downtown >office space to dorm/workspace units, while wiring the suburbs >for "learning a living" in a tele-democracy. That would cut >back on the mad ebb and flow of millions of tons of steel (i.e. >cars) to and from "the office" (hi honey, I'm home). there is a shortage because it is profitable not because we lack the resources or money to construct more housing. >-- Kirby >PS: I've too have lived in a tent for months at a time, with no >other place to call home (my whole family was in the tent with >me). Not a bad life, in the right context (the time by a lake >was best). I've also lived at least half my life outside the USA, >much of the time in the so-called 3rd World. sorry this was so brief it is 5:00! i am going home! bye gordon muth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 18:26:37 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Conway <71640.2350@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Removel Please remove ny name from the list of recipients of the forum for discussion of B. Fuller's works. Thanks, Gary Conway 71640,2350 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 14:52:00 LCL Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Booker [Text item: Text_1] Virtual friends, Much thanks to all who responded to my request for a source for the Dymaxion world map. What is BFI? is it a company, resarch institute, or what? They seem like pretty helpful folks. Yours, Gary Booker Gary_Booker@Intersolv.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 21:03:48 -0500 Reply-To: alan_m@interphase.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Alan Murray Organization: An organization is mounting as we speak... Subject: Re: Fuller and emergency shelters >PS: I've too have lived in a tent for months at a time, with no >other place to call home (my whole family was in the tent with >me). Not a bad life, in the right context (the time by a lake >was best). I've also lived at least half my life outside the USA, >much of the time in the so-called 3rd World Wow Kirby, This must be the "homeless" conference, I just e-mailed Gordon detailing my self made homes. Next time though I want a laptop, solar powered and a cell phone. I can put that message on the list now that I think I've figured out how to post here. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 21:03:54 -0500 Reply-To: alan_m@interphase.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Alan Murray Organization: An organization is mounting as we speak... Subject: Re: Fuller and emergency shelters "Gordon C. Muth III" writes: > USA people are living in squalor, in pathetic housing, under > onerous and fearful conditions compared to where Fuller hoped we would > be by this time. > well, i live in a tent and i like it! people do not need > golden fixtures to be happy, they just need a safe place > where they can grow. while there does seem to be a lack > of safe housing currently, this is more a result of the > society in which we live that the houses we inhabit. > -- Kirby > gordon muth Hi Gordon, I'm so glad you said that. It cleared up the issue for me. I have a bit of a story to tell. When I was in high school in '72 I took an architechture class. I was very interested in Geodesics, tensegrity structures and Bucky's notions of instant houses. I made several models. I thought and dreamed about alternative structures much of the time for a few years. The years dragged on and I had many experiences. In '87 I became "homeless", partly due to circumstances and partly because I was just so tired of the treadmill that this society keeps us on. Perhaps nomadic would be a better term for me or some term which connotes `he who carries his home within'. I never felt homeless. On the contrary a great weight had been lifted from me. I suspect a certain number of other homeless people experience their circumstances this way. There is a sense that a natural, organic pattern of life has returned to me and that this is the way it was supposed to be. I feel cared for by Universe. For the time being I live in the spare, seldom used home of a wealthy person. The first few nights I hit the streets I lived in a refrigerator box. I soon built a succession of tents in the woods. I eventually settled on a bamboo frame in the shape of a quansit hut, covered with clear polyethylene sheet. Imagine my surprise when I would offer to build other homeless people somekind of warm dry semipermanent house and almost to a man they would reject it. There were so many reasons; "I can't sleep in the woods", "Too many bugs", "I'm just not used to it". All seemed to boil down to the fact that they just couldn't get this concept of a house as function, as opposed to a house is what my culture has defined a house to be. So when you said that the lack of safe housing has to do with society more than the kind of houses available, it all clicked for me. I did manage to help one guy build a cardboard shanty and put a woodstove in it. The one thing I do lack with this lifestyle is a community of likeminded souls to share the world of alternative ideas with. There are a few mailing lists. Do you get Leri-L? It is sometimes called the electronic commune, available from: leri-request@pyramid.com You mentioned that you live in a tent. I'm most interested in hearing about how it all works for you. My fantasies about where to live next hover around being near or in a commune, living in somekind of self built home. I also thought of being in a cave in the southwest. Wherever it is I plan to have a laptop and a cell phone or access to a phone. Do you have any trouble getting your posts onto Geodesic-L. Mine do not show up on the list. I wrote Patrick Salsbury, the list coordinator about it. Synergisticly yours, Alan alan_m@interphase.com (Alan Murray) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 05:57:26 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 3 Dec 1993 14:52:00 LCL from On Fri, 3 Dec 1993 14:52:00 LCL Gary Booker said: >[Text item: Text_1] >Virtual friends, > >Much thanks to all who responded to my request for a source for the Dymaxion >world map. > >What is BFI? is it a company, resarch institute, or what? They seem like prettB non-profit organization. They houe the Fuller archives (documents on the best documented man in history). They publish a periodical called "Trimtab" and sell various documents and artifacts relating to Fuller's work. I'm a member, would you like to see my card . Sorry about the garbled message some problem with the mailer?? >helpful folks. > >Yours, > >Gary Booker > >Gary_Booker@Intersolv.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 06:13:52 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 4 Dec 1993 05:57:26 EST from Sorry my most important line seems to have gotten hexed out. BFI is the Buckminster Fuller Institute - A (research?) and educational non-profit. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 13:06:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Tents are cool >Do you have any trouble getting your posts onto Geodesic-L. >Mine do not show up on the list. I wrote Patrick Salsbury, >the list coordinator about it. > >Synergisticly yours, > >Alan alan_m@interphase.com (Alan >Murray) Howdy Alan -- Kirby here. Some lists default to NOT echoing an uploaded message to the uploader. This seems to be such a list. However, every time I send a message, I get back a lot of garbage about undeliverable this, undeliverable that. However, if you send the one line message ACK GEODESIC to LISTSERV@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu, you will get a little thing in your box that says your message was successfully received and distributed. I'm getting that now, along with all the other "undeliverable" junk. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 13:07:42 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Fuller and emergency shelters >>BTW, I think there *is* a basic shortage of adequate housing >>even now. I like Fuller's idea of converting a lot of downtown >>office space to dorm/workspace units, while wiring the suburbs >>for "learning a living" in a tele-democracy. That would cut >>back on the mad ebb and flow of millions of tons of steel (i.e. >>cars) to and from "the office" (hi honey, I'm home). > > there is a shortage because it is profitable not > because we lack the resources or money to construct > more housing. > Agreed! Adequate shelter for all humans is possible. Not using forest products though. I think what tent life and Fuller's homes have in common is energy-autonomy. With a Fuller unit, I can plunk down in the middle of nowhere. The tripod of my Fly's Eye is adjustable for bumpy, slopey terrain. I didn't have to rip a road through the wilderness to get it here. I didn't have to pour a foundation or bulldoze or whatever. Say I'm a student of ecology. A university consortium has these "remote campus deployment" units tha t programs rent for a few weeks or months. Whole little communities deploy, doi ng minimal damage to the environment, make their studies (staying in touch with cellular internet etc.), and leave. The noisey helicopter part only comes at the beginning and the end, and maybe once a week during the middle. I say we look at cities as huge campuses (the "city as campus" metaphor) and all humans as would-be students in a Global University. Work-study options, life-long "learning a living" scenarios give you access to all kinds of facilities, travel. Fuller computed that our global energy budget (solar derived) gave us enough to offer fellowships to all those impoverished and living in shanty towns, minus any really good education. I think many families in the Philippines would jump at the chance to enroll in the Global University. If you like the outdoors life, and growing food, or fishing, well, that can be arranged. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 00:41:00 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: scimatec5@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services Subject: test test ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 00:40:11 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: scimatec5@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services Subject: 5v icosa alternate Hey all, I have some questions to ask about the triginometry behind geodesic domes. Remarkably, I've understood what I've encountered so far, and am well on my way to calculating the the chord factors for a 5v icosa alternate (Why? when I can look it up in a book? Well, I figured I'd prove to myself I can.) I've been able to find those along the direct projection from the icosohedron (are 0.198147431 w/central angle of 11.3716678 degrees, 0.231597598 w/central angle of 13.29940137, and 0.245346417 w/central angle of 14.09281254 acurate beginnings for the outside? I'd check the _Domebook 2_, except that they're all checked out from all the local libraries-- who knew Toledo was such a place of culture :) but am unsure how to find the others. Finding the corner angles of the triangle would probably help, in fact I think I could find all the lengths, but I wondered if there eas an easier way. On a separate issue, what is the equation for finding the volume of a pyramid (such as, well, an octahedron.) Is it base times height divided by three, like a cone ? I tried to prove that that was plausable to my dad by taking a 4-sided, then a six sided, and then an infinite sided regular base and dividing it into triangles, forming therefore forming pyramids of equal height, and the last one having a base of a circle, but he didn't buy it, and he knows math a lot better than I. Steve Mather ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 21:29:06 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: 5v icosa alternate In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 4 Dec 1993 00:40:11 GMT from On Sat, 4 Dec 1993 00:40:11 GMT said: > Hey all, I have some questions to ask about the triginometry behind >geodesic domes. Remarkably, I've understood what I've encountered so far, and >am well on my way to calculating the the chord factors for a 5v icosa alternate >(Why? when I can look it up in a book? Well, I figured I'd prove to myself I >can.) I've been able to find those along the direct projection from the >icosohedron (are 0.198147431 w/central angle of 11.3716678 degrees, 0.231597598 >w/central angle of 13.29940137, and 0.245346417 w/central angle of 14.09281254 >acurate beginnings for the outside? I'd check the _Domebook 2_, except that >they're all checked out from all the local libraries-- who knew Toledo was such >a place of culture :) but am unsure how to find the others. Finding the >corner angles of the triangle would probably help, in fact I think I could find >all the lengths, but I wondered if there eas an easier way. You need Napier's rules. See Fuller's book Synergetics II. It's a bit too complicated to compose a description on-line, but if you like I can prepare one in a few days. If you want to check your work p. 481 of Synergetics I has the answers. > > On a separate issue, what is the equation for finding the volume of a >pyramid (such as, well, an octahedron.) Is it base times height divided by >three, like a cone ? I tried to prove that that was plausable to my dad by >taking a 4-sided, then a six sided, and then an infinite sided regular base and >dividing it into triangles, forming therefore forming pyramids of equal height, >and the last one having a base of a circle, but he didn't buy it, and he knows >math a lot better than I. The issue of volume measure is dependent on the choice of the unit of volume. I recommend choosing the tetrahedron as the unit of volume. Then by subdividing the octahedron and tetrahedron into "buiding blocks" fascinating relationships will be discovered. Try buiding some models too! > Steve Mather Chris Fearnley ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 23:11:00 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Synergetics volumes >On a separate issue, what is the equation for finding the volume of >pyramid (such as, well, an octahedron.) Is it base times height >divided by th ree, like a cone ? I agree with Chris F. -- using Fuller's regular P-lengthed tetrahedron as a unit of volume is a good beginning. A regular P-edged octahedron will have 4 times the tetra's volume, while a cube with a P-lengthed diagonal will have 3 times the tetra's volume. That means a cube of diagonal P has 3/4 the volume of an octahedron of edge P. Say P=1. The corresponding cube of diagonal 1 has a volume of about 0.354 (conventional math), and so the octahedron has a volume of 4/3 that, or 0.471 (again, conventional math). If we multiply both results by the Synergetics Constant, we get a cube of volume 0.3750000 (precise) and an octahedron of volume 1/2. Those are the nice volumes we'd like, given a simple edge of 1. Note that the tetrahedron of edge 1 has a volume of 1/8. That's because of how the Synergetics Constant is derived. The so-called "prime vector" between any 2 adjacent spheres in the icomatrix is of Cartesian length 2 (these are unit-radius spheres after all). So the Synergetics Constant is the ratio between the volume of a prime vector diagonaled cube in Synergetics (=3) and the corresponding cube in XYZ geometry (2nd-root of 2 to the third power). By the way, there *is* a formula the provides the volume of *any* tetrahedron given its 6 edges as inputs. It's a monster formula, derived by Leonhard Euler. I doubt I could write it understandably in ASCII. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 23:11:29 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Genesis RE: Genesis Dome Village for Homeless Just got my most recent TrimTab from the Buckminster Fuller Institute today. It has some of the information I was looking for about that community for the homeless in LA. Here are some excerpts: "The domes are made of fiberglass and are similar in structure to plywood domes. They are 20' in diameter and have many windows. Each dome takes only two to three hours to assemble allowing for speedy construction for the whole community... The whole community can be put up in only five weeks... Craig Chamberlain, who worked with Buckminster Fuller in the 1970s, has helped [Ted] Hayes [head of Justicville/Homeless USA] with the specifics of the dome construction... A sample of each type of domes was on display in the Los Angeles location. These structures included a kitchen with two of everything, a laundry room with multiple washers and dryeers, a dome with four indiv- idual bathrooms and showers, and the shelter dome split into two private bedrooms. On November 5th Genesis 1, a one-acre community of 18 Omnisphere domes in downtown Los Angeles celebrated its grand opening as the first pilot dome village. Funded by ARCO, the domes were erected by homeless workers and the American Temporary Housing Corporation. If the first year is successful, Justiceville/Homeless USA hopes to erect such villages in other cities. Hopefully, Hayes and his volunteers have started a continuing trend of solving our shelter needs by doing more with less." Article b Melinda McDonald, BFI TrimTab Bulletin, Fall/Winter 1993 contact: JHUSA 1316 Wilshire Blvd, LA, CA 90017 (213) 483-8783 for more info. -- Kirby Urner pdx4d@igc.apc.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 16:18:48 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: MARTIN ROLLER Organization: University of Regensburg Subject: Tensegrity Are there any recent publications on tensegrity structures? -- Martin Roller, Mathematik, . Tel +49 941 943 2991 Universitaet Regensburg, . Fax +49 941 943 2576 93040 Regensburg, Germany . roller@alf2.ngate.uni-regensburg.d400.de ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 17:50:00 LCL Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Booker Subject: Buiding regs??!? [Text item: Text_1] Virtual Friends, Does anybody have any experience putting in a prefabricated dome (or domelike) kit, into a residentially zoned lot? Coming from England, where the answer to that question is "dont even think about it!", to Oregon (Portland suburbs, to be precise), I am surprised that I dont see them lining the route I take to work! Is this because there is a general hostility to non-cuboid dwellings, or what? What kind of local government/building regs hassle can I expect to come across? What words of advice can you seasoned campaigners offer to someone about to embark on the childhood dream of buying the land, and putting up the dome(s)? I would like to get this right the first time, and not end up dissappearing up my own greater circle! ;-> Mucho thanks Gary_Booker@Intersolv.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 23:24:42 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: scimatec5@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services Subject: Re: 5v icosa alternate In article <1993Dec3.194011.1@uoft02.utoledo.edu>, scimatec5@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes: > > > Hey all, I have some questions to ask about the triginometry behind > geodesic domes. Remarkably, I've understood what I've encountered so far, and > am well on my way to calculating the the chord factors for a 5v icosa alternate > (Why? when I can look it up in a book? Well, I figured I'd prove to myself I > can.) I've been able to find those along the direct projection from the > icosohedron (are 0.198147431 w/central angle of 11.3716678 degrees, 0.231597598 > w/central angle of 13.29940137, and 0.245346417 w/central angle of 14.09281254 > acurate beginnings for the outside? I'd check the _Domebook 2_, except that > they're all checked out from all the local libraries-- who knew Toledo was such > a place of culture :) but am unsure how to find the others. Finding the > corner angles of the triangle would probably help, in fact I think I could find > all the lengths, but I wondered if there eas an easier way. > > On a separate issue, what is the equation for finding the volume of a > pyramid (such as, well, an octahedron.) Is it base times height divided by > three, like a cone ? I tried to prove that that was plausable to my dad by > taking a 4-sided, then a six sided, and then an infinite sided regular base and > dividing it into triangles, forming therefore forming pyramids of equal height, > and the last one having a base of a circle, but he didn't buy it, and he knows > math a lot better than I. > Steve Mather > > Correction: I meant tetrahedron where I put octahedron. Though I guess half an octahedron would work. Anyway I got an answer for the second question. Thanks, Tim (I think that's who it was-- I don't have the reply here. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:29:34 CST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tom Dosemagen Subject: Re: Buiding regs??!? I live in a 44 foot diameter dome that I built about 13 years ago. It is located in a rural setting on 1&1/2 acres. I have many neighbors with cuboid type houses. We had no problems getting building permits or money to build the dome. Everyone around here ( south central Wisconsin ) likes our home. Within 5 miles of home there are 5 more domes all located on similar settings. While reseaching the dome company that I wanted to purchase my kit from I saw domes located in rather nice rural subdivisions and they fit in the area quite nicely. I personally feel that the dome needs a rural setting. Don't give up looking for land because living in a dome is great. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 13:15:00 LCL Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gary Booker Subject: World Power Grid ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes --------------------------- From: MAILER-DAEMON@radiomail.net at Internet Date: 12/8/93 12:32PM To: Gary Booker at BEAVPOST Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Friends, Does anybody know what happened to the World Power Grid. It looked like it was all set to take off. I was reading t'other day in (I think) Cosmic Trigger II, by Robert Anton Wilson (great stuff, like all his books!!) that government people from the four corners of the world were set to have a planning meeting to kick it off. The bad news is that it was scheduled to happen in Kuwait around the time of the conflagration, so of course it was cancelled. Does anybody know if the meeting was rescheduled at a later time, and if so - what was the outcome? Gary _Booker@Intersolv.com "No wife, no horse, no mustache!!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 16:29:25 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DAMICO@GELMAN.CIRC.GWU.EDU Subject: Re: Buiding regs??!? You may not realize this but resident Fuller expert Kirby Urner is right in your neighborhood. I sure hope Portland,OR isn't hostile to Geodesic domes. My wife and I just bought a lot their and plan to build a dome and retire with a view of Mt. Hood, Mt. St. Helens and the river. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 13:17:34 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: MARTIN ROLLER Organization: University of Regensburg Subject: Really Large Structures Buckminster Fuller claims in several of his books, that using dome constructions one could build arbitrarily large structures, the only constrain would be the available material (see e.g. the sketches of floating spheres of diameter one mile or a bubble enclosing Manhattan in "The Dymaxion World"). Frei Otto, a German architect, argues that this is still impossible, nobody could build a structure (arc, roof etc.) spanning one mile, say. Does anybody know Fuller's precise calculations for the structural stability of domes or more details of Otto's case against it? Who is right? -- Martin Roller, Mathematik, . Tel +49 941 943 2991 Universitaet Regensburg, . Fax +49 941 943 2576 93040 Regensburg, Germany . roller@alf2.ngate.uni-regensburg.d400.de ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 15:53:35 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: MARTIN ROLLER Organization: University of Regensburg Subject: Re: Synergetics volumes In article <199312070711.XAA26938@cdp.igc.org> 4D Solutions writes: > ... >By the way, there *is* a formula the provides the volume of >*any* tetrahedron given its 6 edges as inputs. It's a monster >formula, derived by Leonhard Euler. I doubt I could write it >understandably in ASCII. Let ABCD be a tetrahedron with sides a = AD, b = BD, c = CD, p = BC, q = CA, r = AB. The volume V of the tetrahedron can be computed from the determinant of a 5-by-5 matrix as follows (here ^2 means taking squares). | 0 r^2 q^2 a^2 1| | | |r^2 0 p^2 b^2 1| | | 288 V^2 = |q^2 p^2 0 c^2 1| | | |a^2 b^2 c^2 0 1| | | | 1 1 1 1 0| -- Martin Roller, Mathematik, . Tel +49 941 943 2991 Universitaet Regensburg, . Fax +49 941 943 2576 93040 Regensburg, Germany . roller@alf2.ngate.uni-regensburg.d400.de ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 00:48:21 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Volume of a Tetrahedron >>By the way, there *is* a formula the provides the volume of >>*any* tetrahedron given its 6 edges as inputs. It's a monster >>formula, derived by Leonhard Euler. I doubt I could write it >>understandably in ASCII. > >let ABCD be a tetrahedron with sides > > a = AD, b = BD, c = CD, > p = BC, q = CA, r = AB. > >The volume V of the tetrahedron can be computed >from the determinant of a 5-by-5 matrix as follows >(here ^2 means taking squares). > > | 0 r^2 q^2 a^2 1| > | | > |r^2 0 p^2 b^2 1| > | | > 288 V^2 = |q^2 p^2 0 c^2 1| > | | > |a^2 b^2 c^2 0 1| > | | > | 1 1 1 1 0| > >-- >Martin Roller, Mathematik, . Tel +49 941 943 2991 >Universitaet Regensburg, . Fax +49 941 943 2576 >93040 Regensburg, Germany . >roller@alf2.ngate.uni-regensburg.d400.de Cool! I never saw that one before. I look forward to trying it out. >Does anybody know Fuller's precise calculations for the structural >stability of domes or more details of Otto's case against it? Who is >right? That's a good question! I don't have the answer but I will help circulate your query. -- Kirby pdx4d@igc.apc.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 20:45:35 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Andrew Norris Organization: Institute for Computational Mechanics in Propulsion Subject: Re: Angles A few questions which can probably be answered by this group: 1/ Given a dodecahedron with the edges of length unity, what is the radius of the sphere that would enlose this body? 2/ For the above case, construct each pentagon out of triangles. What are the angles required so that new center-node of the pentagon just touches the enclosing sphere? Many thanks, Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 18:12:13 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Bruce T. Lael" Subject: Mailing list Please sign me up for the mailing list "discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works". (or where I can if this isn't the right place!!) Thanx. Bruce Lael Internet: lael@venus.rcc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 17:21:16 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: Angles In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 13 Dec 1993 20:45:35 GMT from On Mon, 13 Dec 1993 20:45:35 GMT Andrew Norris said: >A few questions which can probably be answered by this group: > >1/ Given a dodecahedron with the edges of length unity, what is > the radius of the sphere that would enlose this body? radius of shere = tau[root(3)]/2 ~= 1.4013 where tau is the constant for the golden mean. > >2/ For the above case, construct each pentagon out of triangles. > What are the angles required so that new center-node of the > pentagon just touches the enclosing sphere? I don't feel like getting out paper and calculator, but it looks like there is a 90 degree angled triangle (from dodeca vertex to center of dodeca face to intersection of your triange with the circumsphere). > >Many thanks, > > Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 05:49:01 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Ben Williams Organization: University of Delaware Subject: 2v triacon From news.udel.edu!udel!news.intercon.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu !lerc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!fsandy Tue Dec 14 23:11:09 EST 1993 Article: 1147 of bit.listserv.geodesic Path: news.udel.edu!udel!news.intercon.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu !lerc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!fsandy From: fsandy@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Andrew Norris) Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic Subject: Re: Angles Date: 13 Dec 1993 20:45:35 GMT Organization: Institute for Computational Mechanics in Propulsion Lines: 13 Message-ID: <2eik9f$2ci@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: bart.lerc.nasa.gov A few questions which can probably be answered by this group: 1/ Given a dodecahedron with the edges of length unity, what is the radius of the sphere that would enlose this body? 2/ For the above case, construct each pentagon out of triangles. What are the angles required so that new center-node of the pentagon just touches the enclosing sphere? Many thanks, Andrew This is just a 2 frequency (what-is-referred-to-in-Domebook II-as) triacon geodesic sphere. Funny you should mention that: Back in June when I first discovered this newsgroup, I got reinterested in my old hobby of building mathmatical models (and R B Fuller as well). So I went through the laborious process of calculating the strut lengths to build a 2v triacon sphere (what you just described above) out of toothpicks. I have it hanging up over my monitor right now. I wish I could show how I used geometry and such to figure all the necessary lengths out. What I do is start out with a drawing of a dodecahedron projected onto a plane -- if it is oriented correctly, you will get a 2-d figure that you can use to deduce the information you want from it. (To get this figure, think of a dodecahedron made out of struts (such as toothpicks) standing on one of its edges on a sheet of paper out in the sun with the sun directly overhead. The shadow on the paper will be this figure.) These are the lengths I derived: E = length of edge of dodecahedron Distance of edge of dodecahedron from center: Er = ( (3 + sqrt(5))/4 ) * E 1/2 distance between non-adjacent vertices of face of dodecahedron: b = ( (sqrt(5)+1)/4 ) * E given a face of dodecahdron, distance between vertex and opposite edge: h = ( ( sqrt(5 + 2*sqrt(5)) ) / 2 ) * E distance from center of dodecahedron to one of its vertices (your question 1): R = sqrt((9 + 3*sqrt(5))/8) * E given a face of dodecahdron, distance from its center to an edge: l = b/h * Er distance from center of face of dodecahedron to center of dodecahedron: m = Er/h * Er given face of dodecahedron, distance from center to vertex: t = h-l length of one of those struts going from a vertex of dodecahedron up to point above center of face but on the enclosing sphere: S = sqrt(t^2 + (R-m)^2) Now, to derive the angles of one of those triangles whose side lengths I jave just determined, you would need to do this: A1 = 2 * arcsin ((E/2)/S) This is the angle of the top corners of the 5 triangles which are arched above one of the faces of the dodecahedron. My calculator gives me this angle in degrees: 67.66866319 Notice it is slightly less than the 72 degrees it would be if they were flat on the face of the dodecahedron. Now the other two angles of each of the triangles are simply derived via: A2 and A3 = (180 - A1) / 2 I get a value of 56.1656684 degrees for these two angles. Ben. -- Ben Williams bew@brahms.udel.edu What we got here is a failure to communicate... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 22:45:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: 4D Solutions Subject: Volume of a tetrahedron >let ABCD be a tetrahedron with sides > > a = AD, b = BD, c = CD, > p = BC, q = CA, r = AB. > >The volume V of the tetrahedron can be computed >from the determinant of a 5-by-5 matrix as follows >(here ^2 means taking squares). > > | 0 r^2 q^2 a^2 1| > | | > |r^2 0 p^2 b^2 1| > | | > 288 V^2 = |q^2 p^2 0 c^2 1| > | | > |a^2 b^2 c^2 0 1| > | | > | 1 1 1 1 0| > >-- >Martin Roller, Mathematik, . Tel +49 941 943 2991 >Universitaet Regensburg, . Fax +49 941 943 2576 >93040 Regensburg, Germany . >roller@alf2.ngate.uni-regensburg.d400.de Yes, that works! Great! Euler's equation for any Tetrahedron w/ edges p,q,r,s,t,u,v: M= (2qrt)^2 -[q^2(r^2+t^2-u^2)^2] -[r^2(q^2+t^2-v^2)^2] -t^2(q^2+r^2-s^2)^2 substitute above M in equation below (V=Volume) V= 1/12 [M + (r^2+t^2-u^2)(q^2+t^2-v^2)(q^2+r^2-s^2)]^.5 This looks a lot more complicated than the determinant expression, but then a determinant is short-hand for a long messy expression. Anyway, both give the same answers. Then you can multiply by the Synergetics Constant to give the volume relative to a Tetrahedron defined by 4 adjacent unit-radius spheres of volume one. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 10:39:07 PST Reply-To: ua704@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Gary S. Nicholls" Subject: Re: Volume of a tetrahedron As a newcomer to the Geodesic discussion group,and to Netting in general,I am hoping someone may save me much frustration by attempting to answer a question or two for me: Is there a readily available computer program(IBM PC) that will allow me to design and draw geodesic structures given a few basic input variables,i.e. diameter,height,volume? Would there be such a thing as a screen saver type program that generates random or constantly changing geodesic patterns? Lastly,is there a location that could be considered a *one stop* location for all information pertaining to geodesic design and construction? Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 03:11:53 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: scimatec5@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services Subject: Spherical Triangles Hey all, A while back I asked about calculating chord factors. I found the equation that without which I don't think I could have done it (by the way I was successful)-- it's a formula for calculating w/any spherical right triangle. the formula is sin a = sin A * sin c. A / | c / |b / | / | B--a--C I'm sure you're all familiar w/it, but is there any other equation that would be just a helpful. Steve Mather ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 17:13:58 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chris Fearnley Subject: Re: Spherical Triangles In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 18 Dec 1993 03:11:53 GMT from On Sat, 18 Dec 1993 03:11:53 GMT said: >Hey all, > A while back I asked about calculating chord factors. I found the >equation that without which I don't think I could have done it (by the way I >was successful)-- it's a formula for calculating w/any spherical right >triangle. the formula is sin a = sin A * sin c. > A > / | > c / |b > / | > / | > B--a--C >I'm sure you're all familiar w/it, but is there any other equation that would >be just a helpful. This is by Napier's rules. Here is Napier's circle: c-c A-c B-c b a where -c means the complement or 90 degrees - (minux) the arclenght measure. There are two rules: Rule 1: The sine of any unknown part "theta" is equal to the product of the cosines of the two known opposite parts. Or sin = cos *cos of the OPPOSITE parts. Rule2: The sine of any unknown part is equal to the product of the tangents of its two known opposite parts. Or sin = tan * tan of ADJACENT. Your formula is the same because c-c=90-c and sin(90-c)=cos(c). > > Steve Mather Chris Fearnley ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 16:57:45 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dboldt@QVARSX.ER.USGS.GOV Subject: post earthquake rebuilding in India There was an article in the Washington Post, Dec 11 (A19), which had a picture of a dome built in a village as an example of a building which could endure future earthquakes. Alas the tone of the article was that the rural Indian people snickered and gawked at this strange thing and that it was an example of aid which did not mesh with the needs of the people it was supposed to help. "Where are we going to keep the cows?" was one of the quotes in reference to the dome house. Does anyone know anything about such efforts in India? I suspect there is a story still untold. -- david boldt dboldt@qvarsa.er.usgs.gov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 10:44:35 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Boldt Subject: Forwarded: post earthquake rebuilding in India There was an article in the Washington Post, Dec 11 (A19), which had a picture of a dome built in a village as an example of a building which could endure future earthquakes. Alas the tone of the article was that the rural Indian people snickered and gawked at this strange thing and that it was an example of aid which did not mesh with the needs of the people it was supposed to help. "Where are we going to keep the cows?" was one of the quotes in reference to the dome house. Does anyone know anything about such efforts in India? I suspect there is a story still untold. -- david boldt dboldt@qvarsa.er.usgs.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 14:23:50 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Jeff Weiner Organization: I CAN! BBS - Chicago, IL - 1-312-736-7388 Subject: Forwarded: post earthquake rebuilding in India DB> From: David Boldt DB> There was an article in the Washington Post, Dec 11 (A19), which DB> had a picture of a dome built in a village as an example of a building DB> which could endure future earthquakes. Alas the tone of the article DB> was that the rural Indian people snickered and gawked at this strange DB> thing and that it was an example of aid which did not mesh with the DB> needs of the people it was supposed to help. "Where are we going to DB> keep the cows?" was one of the quotes in reference to the dome house. How about their own domes? DB> Does anyone know anything about such efforts in India? I suspect DB> there is a story still untold. Nope. But keep us informed...