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Date:         Wed, 1 Oct 1997 15:50:55 -0700
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From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      OCEAN CITY-FREEDOM
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"Think of an ideal place to live or establish a business - a safe and
secure community with large areas of open space and extensive
entertainment and recreational facilities. Imagine that this community
levies no taxes - no income tax, no real estate tax, no sales tax, no
business tax, no import duties. Finally, picture this community
continually moving around the world. You are beginning to understand
Freedom, a soon to be constructed, massive ocean-going vessel. The length
of three Empire State Buildings, the craft will be one of the wonders of
the world - a mobile modern city featuring luxurious condominium living, a
major world trade center, and an extensive duty-free international
shopping mall."

http://www.freedomship.com/

****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:13:38 GMT
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From:         Larry Mintz <kabir@CITENET.NET>
Organization: CiteNet Telecom - Commercial Internet Service
Subject:      Lattices

Synergetcis lends itself nicely to the study of discrete structures
and discrete mathematics. For instance, take the study of
lattices. It is well know given  the the set A={x,y,z} with the
well ordering property of  < that a cube is a lattice structure.
See below:

                                         o(x,y,z}


                                          o{x,z}
                     o{x,y}                                   o{y,z}


                     o{x}                                       o{z}
                                            o{y}


                                           NULL

If you draw lines between the points you will see that this structure
represents a cube.  I'm wondering if it possible to represent a
tetrahedron or closest packed sheres structure as a lattice.  When
closest packed spheres are arranged they form a pyramid.  Each
level of the pyramid is a triangle.  The number of spheres to create
each level is given by f(n)=0.5n(n+1). f(n) is called a triangular
number. For example

n=1 . f(1)= 1  top ball on pyramid
n=2 . f(2)= 0.5(2)(3)=3 . 3 balls on the next level. 3 balls will
need to support it the first ball which will be located in the
centre and so on for the next levels below.

I was wondering if it is possible to create a lattice structure
based on a triangular pyramid ? If  I can do I'll post my results.
If others have, I'd like to know.

Larry-kabir@citenet.net


...
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:54:39 -0700
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From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Favorite Web sites
Comments: To: BenFranq@aol.com
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Dear Ben,

Right now there are not enough resources to support everyone in the world;
so someone must starve.

Inventions exist that would more than stretch the world's resources enough
to serve everyone.

To my mind, at least, our highest priority is to get those inventions
implemented ASAP.

Sincerely,

Joe

****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************

----------
> From: BenFranq@aol.com
> To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
> Subject: Favorite Web sites
> Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 01:03 PM
>
> Dear Joe:
>
> Here are some of my favorite Web sites:
>
snip
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:56:31 GMT
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From:         "Mark A. Nasson" <mark_nasson@DRAPER.COM>
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Subject:      geodesic hardware
Mime-Version: 1.0

I'm hoping somebody can help me find what I'm looking for.

Having become familiar with geodesic domes in detail only rather recently, I am
interested in making some dome models, perhaps with my kids (~10 years old).
The
models could be as small as basketball size (something cool to look at), or as
large as 10 to 12 feet in diameter (something cool to play in, but not ON).

I'm hoping that there are sources for reasonably priced hardware (hubs,
connectors, struts, etc.) for making such domes.  Structural strength is not a
major concern.  Can you help point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
 Mark
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:06:18 -0500
Reply-To:     ega@www.fastlane.net
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From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@WWW.FASTLANE.NET>
Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes
Subject:      Re: geodesic hardware
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mark A. Nasson wrote:
>
> I'm hoping somebody can help me find what I'm looking for.
>
> Having become familiar with geodesic domes in detail only rather recently, I am
> interested in making some dome models, perhaps with my kids (~10 years old).
> The
> models could be as small as basketball size (something cool to look at), or as
> large as 10 to 12 feet in diameter (something cool to play in, but not ON).
>
> I'm hoping that there are sources for reasonably priced hardware (hubs,
> connectors, struts, etc.) for making such domes.  Structural strength is not a
> major concern.  Can you help point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark
Hi. I make dome kits and connector kits using a new dynamic universal &
inexpensive hub. It can be adapted for small geodesic models made from
wood. I used 1 x 2 wood cut lengthwise (to make 1 x 1) to make my
smallest display dome, a 2 foot version of my "Garden Dome 1" [Class 1 2
fr. icosa.] and 1 x 1 wood to make a 4 foot icosa home for Boojum my
dome lab guard dog. I also made a 6 foot complete spherical geodesic of
the "Star Dome 2" [a pentagrammed dodeca.] from 1 x 2 wood- cost about
$40 and 25 hours (counting measuring, calculations, sawing and
assembly).See my web site and let me know if you have questions.Ernie
http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/welcome.shtml
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:00:14 GMT
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From:         "Clifford J. Nelson" <nelsoncj@GTE.NET>
Organization: gte.net
Subject:      Re: Lattices
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
>I was wondering if it is possible to create a lattice structure
>based on a triangular pyramid ? If  I can do I'll post my results.
>If others have, I'd like to know.
>
>Larry-kabir@citenet.net
>

See the discription of the Synergetics coordinate system in the following
subjects: Synergetics, Synergetics & 4D, Closest Packing, and 4D Field.

They are posted on The Math Forum at the address:
http://forum.swarthmore.edu/epigone/geometry-research

Cliff Nelson
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Date:         Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:31:51 -0400
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--------------------------
David Iman  Adler
Solutions for Environmental Harmony
Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands
Design-Garden Design
david@environmentalharmony.com    http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html
Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:17:51 -0700
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From:         sprey@IX.NETCOM.COM
Organization: Netcom
Subject:      Re: Favorite Web sites
Mime-Version: 1.0
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If we feed the starving they will reproduce because they
are fed. They will reproduce until they can't be fed, then
you have many more people starving than before.
   We keep trying to improve the balance of nature and causing
bigger problems. After we eat all the resources, then what?

Joe S. Moore wrote:
> Dear Ben,
> Right now there are not enough resources to support everyone in the world;
> so someone must starve.
> Inventions exist that would more than stretch the world's resources enough
> to serve everyone.
> To my mind, at least, our highest priority is to get those inventions
> implemented ASAP.
> Sincerely,
> Joe
>
> ****************************************
> * Joe S. Moore
> * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
> * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
> * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
> * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> ****************************************
>
> ----------
> > From: BenFranq@aol.com
> > To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
> > Subject: Favorite Web sites
> > Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 01:03 PM
> >
> > Dear Joe:
> >
> > Here are some of my favorite Web sites:
> >
> snip
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:20:41 +1200
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From:         John William Rich <J.W.Rich@XTRA.CO.NZ>
Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services
Subject:      Re: Favorite Web sites
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Joe S. Moore wrote:

> Dear Ben,
>
> Right now there are not enough resources to support everyone in the world;
> so someone must starve.

Hi Joe,There are enough resources to support everyone in the world, it's just
that the distribution and prioritisation (have I invented a word here?) is all
awry e.g. US military spending.
Regards
John Rich
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:15:01 -0500
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From:         "C. J. Monahan" <monahan@EDEN.COM>
Subject:      overpopulation (was Favorite Web sites)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Fuller said that overpopulation was an effect, not a cause, of our problem.
It's *well documented* that the higher a couple's standard of living, the
fewer children they have. Why is the birthrate higher in poor countries
than non-poor countries? To improve humanity's balance with nature -- in
fact, for humanity to imitate how nature works in our endeavors -- is a
major key to solving our problems, according to RBF. His inventions were
all inspired by his understanding of how nature works.

Also, you can't consume all your resources if they are renewable.

Casey


 sprey@IX.NETCOM.COM wrote:
>If we feed the starving they will reproduce because they
>are fed. They will reproduce until they can't be fed, then
>you have many more people starving than before.
>   We keep trying to improve the balance of nature and causing
>bigger problems. After we eat all the resources, then what?
>
>Joe S. Moore wrote:
>> Dear Ben,
>> Right now there are not enough resources to support everyone in the world;
>> so someone must starve.
>> Inventions exist that would more than stretch the world's resources enough
>> to serve everyone.
>> To my mind, at least, our highest priority is to get those inventions
>> implemented ASAP.
>> Sincerely,
>> Joe
>>
>> ****************************************
>> * Joe S. Moore
>> * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
>> * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
>> * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
>> * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>> ****************************************
>>
>> ----------
>> > From: BenFranq@aol.com
>> > To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
>> > Subject: Favorite Web sites
>> > Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 01:03 PM
>> >
>> > Dear Joe:
>> >
>> > Here are some of my favorite Web sites:
>> >
>> snip
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Oct 1997 13:50:02 -0400
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From:         David Iman Adler <dadler@TACONIC.NET>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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usubscribe
--------------------------
David Iman  Adler
Solutions for Environmental Harmony
Landscape Architecture-Environmental Restoration-Site Planning-Wetlands
Design-Garden Design
david@environmentalharmony.com    http://www.taconic.net/adler/index.html
Contributing Editor for Landscape Design, Suite 101; http://www.suite101.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Oct 1997 14:38:46 -0400
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From:         Jack L Rinehart <RINEHARTJR@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Geodesic Hardware-Reply

Mark Nasson asked about hardware to build models.  I make mine using data
extracted from an early large book (I forgot the title, author or publisher.)
about domes.  I use stiff material about 1/8th inch thick, cut the triangles
and then glue them together.  Each triangle is beveled on all edges at 7
degrees.

To determine the size of the triangles use chord factors as follows: pentagon
panel side, 0.3486; hexagon panel side, 0.4124; and the base of each, 0.4035.
 To determine the size of the triangles to produce a dome of given size, use
(chord factor) times (the desired radius) = strut or side length.  For
example, for a 12' radius dome, the base = 0.4035 X 12 = 4.84', pent side =
0.3486 X 12 = 4.1832 and the hex side = 0.4124 X 12 = 4.9488'.

This will produce a three frequency Icosahedron dome, and in a 3/8ths sphere,
 60 triangles will make five pentagons around the bottom, five hexagons in
the middle and a pentagon on the top.  Good luck! rinehartjr@aol.com.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Oct 1997 21:15:53 -0700
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From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: geodesic hardware
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mark,

You may find what you are looking for in my web site under
"Links/Shelter/Domes/Models. Also, the Buckminster Fuller Institute sells
a bunch of model-building kits See their Catalog at:
http://critpath.org/bfi/WebCat.html

****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************

----------
> From: Mark A. Nasson <mark_nasson@DRAPER.COM>
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: geodesic hardware
> Date: Thursday, October 02, 1997 09:56 AM
>
> I'm hoping somebody can help me find what I'm looking for.
>
> Having become familiar with geodesic domes in detail only rather
recently, I am
> interested in making some dome models, perhaps with my kids (~10 years
old).
> The
> models could be as small as basketball size (something cool to look at),
or as
> large as 10 to 12 feet in diameter (something cool to play in, but not
ON).
>
> I'm hoping that there are sources for reasonably priced hardware (hubs,
> connectors, struts, etc.) for making such domes.  Structural strength is
not a
> major concern.  Can you help point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark
> .-
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Oct 1997 08:20:00 GMT
Reply-To:     box2321@teleport.com
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: box2321.com
Subject:      Sarvation

sprey@ix.netcom.com <sprey@ix.netcom.com>:
>If we feed the starving they will reproduce because they
>are fed. They will reproduce until they can't be fed, then
>you have many more people starving than before.
>   We keep trying to improve the balance of nature and causing
>bigger problems. After we eat all the resources, then what?

Wrong right out of the gate.

If you feed people - and by feed I mean steady, interesting, varied,
nutritious food, the kind that comes to post-industrial societies -
the birth rate goes down.  High birth rates are biologically based:
when a society is pressurized, it goes into survival mode and starts
poppin' out the babies because they're needed to compensate for a
high death rate or expected high death rate.  Where there is
education / industry (each needing / generating the other), birth
rates go down.  Not even the Catholic church can moderate birth rates
as well industrialization and education.

I'm with Bucky: the means to industrialize the planet are already
with us, and with global industrialization will occur dimishished
(to zero? close? closer than now?) starvation.

--
  G a d g e t t o http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Oct 1997 17:13:30 GMT
Reply-To:     box2321@teleport.com
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: box2321.com
Subject:      4-D Syndicate, 1997 Style

It seems to me that this fits Fuller's idea of 'industry' coming to the aid
of 'all humanity' (Emphasis added with > below).

_,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._


                             Reuters New Media

   Saturday October 4 8:57 AM EDT

Carter Advises Turner on U.N. Gift

   ATLANTA (Reuter) - Former President Jimmy Carter is advising Cable
   News Network founder Ted Turner on how to spend the $1 billion he has
   pledged to the United Nations over the next 10 years, a newspaper
   reported Saturday.

   The Atlanta Journal-Constitution said Turner asked for Carter's advice
   before he made his Sept. 18 announcement that he would create a $1
   billion foundation to help U.N. programs.

   "We had a long discussion about whether he should help the U.N. and
>  how," Carter told the newspaper. "He didn't want to show off but set
>  an example for other wealthy people to follow."

   Carter told Turner his donation should be "simple and clear and not
   involve the bureaucracy of the U.N."

   Since then, Turner has called Carter regularly to update him on
   progress towards establishing the foundation. However, Carter said his
   role has been exaggerated. "Ted had his own agenda. He really didn't
   need my help," Carter said.

>  At a speech in New York last month, Turner, the vice chairman of Time
>  Warner Inc., pledged to give the United Nations $100 million a year
>  for the next decade.
     _________________________________________________________________


_,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._,/-\._


- Trevor

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Oct 1997 06:20:55 GMT
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From:         Filip De Vos <fidevos@EDUSERV1.RUG.AC.BE>
Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium
Subject:      Re: Favorite Web sites

Joe S. Moore (joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM) wrote:
: Dear Ben,

: Right now there are not enough resources to support everyone in the world;
: so someone must starve.

Joe this is not correct, there is allready enough food-production on
earth for everybody, it is just that present day world-around distribution
systems are wrongly organised. Even then, actual starvation only takes
place when humans deliberately wreck the local production, and regional
transportation systems, as in war.

: Inventions exist that would more than stretch the world's resources enough
: to serve everyone.

: To my mind, at least, our highest priority is to get those inventions
: implemented ASAP.

I agree with that. Could it be that Bucky concentrated too much on
artifacts, and ignored organisation?


--
      Filip De Vos                        FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be

          There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
                       --   John S. Lewis   --
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Oct 1997 06:35:26 GMT
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From:         Filip De Vos <fidevos@EDUSERV1.RUG.AC.BE>
Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium
Subject:      Re: OCEAN CITY-FREEDOM

Joe S. Moore (joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM) wrote:
: "Think of an ideal place to live or establish a business - a safe and
: secure community with large areas of open space and extensive

Nice idea, but is it practical? Utopian ocean-colonies have had been in
vogue in the thirties, when even dreamers noticed the preparations for war.

Fixed ocean cities are allso promoted by the oceania group,

http://www.oceania.org/

and as the first stage of Marshall Savage's First Millenial Foundation.

http://www.millennial.org/

The Japanese have also toyed with the idea of sea-cities, for obvious
reasons, like Kiyonuro Kikutake
http://www.kikutake.co.jp/

The Pilkington glass firm also designed a Sea City
http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/~bat/sea-city.html

: entertainment and recreational facilities. Imagine that this community
: levies no taxes - no income tax, no real estate tax, no sales tax, no
: business tax, no import duties. Finally, picture this community

Yeah, right. where are the running costs of that giant? The insurance
cost alone will be astronomical. The Pilkington Glass Sea City was to get
its energy from nearby gasfields in the North Sea.

: continually moving around the world. You are beginning to understand
: Freedom, a soon to be constructed, massive ocean-going vessel. The length
: of three Empire State Buildings, the craft will be one of the wonders of
: the world - a mobile modern city featuring luxurious condominium living, a
: major world trade center, and an extensive duty-free international
: shopping mall."

I did not notice any food-production, unlike say, Savage's scheme. Taht
means _everything will have to be imported.

: http://www.freedomship.com/

--
      Filip De Vos                        FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be

          There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
                       --   John S. Lewis   --
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:47:02 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller
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****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************

----------
> From: AS02001@aol.com
> To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
> Subject: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller
> Date: Sunday, October 05, 1997 05:35 AM
>
> Finally got my hands in this documentary.  It was like having Bucky in
your
> house, talking to you alone, and making sense of it all (yet again) in
his
> unique no-nonsense style.  What a difference from the American Masters
> documentary, full of accounts by people who disliked Bucky for all the
wrong
> reasons (Phillip Johnson's "who cares about weight? The pyramids are
heavy;
> they are still beautiful") and more blatantly, the almost complete
exclusion
> of Bucky's philosophical underpinnings.  I recommend anyone who has not
seen
> the documentary by Robert Snyder to get it and rediscover Bucky one more
> time, this time from the source itself.  On another note..is there
anyone who
> lives in NYC who would allow me to photocopy es copy of A SYNERGETICS
> DICTIONARY? I have looked everywhere, and it is only available as a
reference
> item, so i cannot copy it from them.  i would greatly appreciate any
help on
> this matter.
> .-
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Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 06:40:35 -0400
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From:         Bo Atkinson <insearch@AGATE.NET>
Subject:      Re: starving & resources
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So we starve by the default:- poor, resource management. And now evolution
is showing us that western diets are infantile, because of nutritional
starvation.....
Bucky observed (on tapes), that intelligence could be raised, largely with
an improved diet. But Bucky was trustful of the industrial approach to
food. Bucky did not have the benefit of evolving information, that
industrial food production would result in new discoveries about nutational
complexities. If Bucky were today to study the currently unfolding research
on the kinds of disease each ethnic population suffers from, then new
conclusions would be reached about starvation. Many of the human diseases
today seem to be related to the diets of the sufferers. Western diets based
on currently dominant commercial biases are not good for health and are
linked with diseases.  Plenty of studies are currently being quietly
collected. The powerful agri/food lobbies (of the industrialists), dominate
the media and will never report this. But at some point, a critical mass of
these respectable and challenging studies will "break the bubble".  For a
preview on some of this, http://www.garynull.com/ , (Gary Null is one of
many prominent researchers).


Bo  @kinson                    http://www.agate.net/~insearch
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 06:55:49 -0400
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From:         Bo Atkinson <insearch@AGATE.NET>
Subject:      Re: starving & resources
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On second thought, here is just one link to get to some of the more amazing
research going on. (As i said, most of this stuff is not reported on the
mass media,
good research takes allot patience, it's just not easily accessible).
http://www.garynull.com/radioschedule08-18.htm


Bo  @kinson                    http://www.agate.net/~insearch
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Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:20:10 -0500
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From:         Promo <Promo@JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM>
Subject:      Re: Favorite Web sites -Reply
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>>> <sprey@IX.NETCOM.COM> 10/03/97 04:17pm >>>
>If we feed the starving they will reproduce because they
>are fed. They will reproduce until they can't be fed, then
>you have many more people starving than before.
>   We keep trying to improve the balance of nature and causing
>bigger problems. After we eat all the resources, then what?

Read Critical Path.  If we increase the technology of the starving masses
at the same time that we give them more food, the birth rate will level off.

Brian
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:27:57 -0400
Reply-To:     garym@sympatico.ca
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@MAYA.OSICOM.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Myth of OverPopulation
In-Reply-To:  <TCPSMTP.17.10.6.10.10.54.2781597121.1579089@bbs.sos.on.ca>
              (geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu)

>>>>> "p" == Promo <Promo@JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM> writes:

    p> Read Critical Path.  If we increase the technology of the
    p> starving masses at the same time that we give them more food,
    p> the birth rate will level off.

It is simpler than this: The GENI project shows convincing evidence
that birthrate is inversely proportional to electricity consumption.
By realizing the whole-world electricity grid as described by Fuller,
recommended to Pierre Eliott Trudeau and approved in principle by
Kruschev, we can address the world population problem simply,
effectively and economically.

On the WorldBank's Global Knowledge mailing lists, I proposed the
WorldGame (and Fuller's?) idea of a modest 3% tax on insurance company
_profits_ as a means to fund global 'utopia' ... curiously, no one
made any comment ;)

I also recall a story of Bucky being asked to speak at a Soviet
conference on the Future where he was pitted against the moguls of
doom of the Club of Rome and other soothsayers.  Bucky was instructed
to speak for 15 minutes (ha ha) and the organizers double-checked this
asking his road-manager if Bucky understood.

Bucky spoke for 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes ... his
road-manager asked the organizers if he should stop Bucky.

"No," they replied, "He is wonderful!"

Let me be forever archived for saying this :) ... the problem is not
population, poverty, crime, war, child abuse, class struggle or any such
symptoms: The only problem is tunnel-vision politics ... or put another
way, by mathematician Piet Hein:

     "When designing by committee, there's a useful rule of thumb
      That talents make a difference, and follies make a sum"

Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@sympatico.ca> -- http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym/
TeleDynamics http://visitweb.com/teledynamics/ RR#1 Sauble Beach, Ont CAN
telecenter design  --  telework systems  --  intranet/extranet consulting
"You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." ----- Miles Davis
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:49:56 -0400
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From:         Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@MAYA.OSICOM.NET>
Subject:      Re: starving & resources
In-Reply-To:  <TCPSMTP.17.10.6.6.40.20.2781597121.1578931@bbs.sos.on.ca>
              (geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu)

Let's play devil's advocate ;) ...

>>>>> "BA" == Bo Atkinson <insearch@AGATE.NET> writes:

    BA> So we starve by the default:- poor, resource management. And
    BA> now evolution is showing us that western diets are infantile,
    BA> because of nutritional starvation.....

If this is the case, then why do North Americans live so long?  A better
question is why do the French live so long?  Why do the Chinese, who have
elevated food the the status of a bona-fide medicine, die so soon?  Where
are the American pituary dwarfs?

At the University of Guelph, they have a soda-pop cola based on Soya beans
which may, in the very near future, have mothers saying "No you _can't_
have a milk or a juice!  Drink your Coke, dear!"

    BA> Bucky observed (on tapes), that intelligence could be raised,
    BA> largely with an improved diet.

Bob Marley noted that we can be "playing it smart without being
clever" --- is there a survival value to higher intelligence?  Or does
it leave a propensity to get oneself further into the quagmire of
rational thought?  What is the relation between rates of suicide vs IQ?

Of course, as was my most unpopular thesis in Developmental Psychology,
what the H do we mean by 'intelligence'?  The ability to spot a scam when
we see one?

    BA> But Bucky was trustful of the
    BA> industrial approach to food. Bucky did not have the benefit of
    BA> evolving information, that industrial food production would
    BA> result in new discoveries about nutational complexities.

While it is true much of what we eat is for the pleasure of eating, it
is also true that our actual daily requirements are met by such an absurdly
miniscule (to us) level of nutrients, that there are virtually no
deficiencies in even the worst NA diet.  There are, however, surplus
factors such as fats, which the French solved centuries ago (with wine)

In the west, we do not have 'starvation' in any degree comparable to that
which has plagued the developing nations for as long as we can remember.
Why?  Because we are not in the path of the footsteps of the GRUNCH.

    BA> If Bucky were today to study the currently unfolding research
    BA> on the kinds of disease each ethnic population suffers from,
    BA> then new conclusions would be reached about starvation. Many
    BA> of the human diseases today seem to be related to the diets of
    BA> the sufferers. Western diets based on currently dominant
    BA> commercial biases are not good for health and are linked with
    BA> diseases.

What ever happend to gout, scurvy, and scroffula?  Certainly there are
conditions which erupt from nutrient difficiencies --- many plants, for
example, cannot reproduce without the presence of Boron, on the rarest
of elements.  Who discovered this?

If there is a conspiracy by the industrials, then why are the industrials
now pandering to the popular food myths?  Because it sells.  Industrials
are "next quarter profit" people and will sell whatever is bought.  If we
all decide cat feces is the new health-food, the industrials will package
it for us ... unless the FDA says no, in which case the health-food stores
(who are also industrials) will package it for us.

Eat, drink, be merry ;) and continue spreading joy and revolution everywhere.

Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@sympatico.ca> -- http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym/
TeleDynamics http://visitweb.com/teledynamics/ RR#1 Sauble Beach, Ont CAN
telecenter design  --  telework systems  --  intranet/extranet consulting
"You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." ----- Miles Davis
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 21:25:16 -0500
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
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From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes
Subject:      Re: geodesic hardware
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I  posted a page of my little domes that are models and
prototypes/experiments; in my personal home page. It is in the
USRobotics web space given free when you purchase certain of their modem
products.
http://homepage.usr.com/g/geodesic/my_domes/85376.shtml
Also is an image of the Dallas Hyatt (hotel) Reunion Tower geodesic
frame looking down at Dealy Plaza and the School Book Depository. (Takes
a few minutes to load)
Ernie
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:23:17 -0400
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From:         Bo Atkinson <insearch@AGATE.NET>
Subject:      Re: starving & resources
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At 10:49 AM 10/6/97 -0400, Gary wrote:
>Let's play devil's advocate ;) ...
 << (many related interpretations cut for brevity).
>If there is a conspiracy by the industrials, then why are the industrials
>now pandering to the popular food myths?  Because it sells.  Industrials
>are "next quarter profit" people and will sell whatever is bought.  If we
>all decide cat feces is the new health-food, the industrials will package
>it for us ... unless the FDA says no, in which case the health-food stores
>(who are also industrials) will package it for us.
>
>Eat, drink, be merry ;) and continue spreading joy and revolution everywhere.
>
>Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@sympatico.ca> -- http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym/
>TeleDynamics http://visitweb.com/teledynamics/ RR#1 Sauble Beach, Ont CAN
>telecenter design  --  telework systems  --  intranet/extranet consulting
>"You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." ----- Miles Davis
>

Gary,

You introduced the *conspiracy* word, which can indeed be fun. But my
meanings were really different.  I'd say "self serving competition" is more
appropriate for business entities, (not conspiracy). It seemed to me that
Bucky was interested in evolving beyond shear competition, (in business
memes).

In focus, if you ask why are: "the industrials now pandering to the popular
food myths", then you have missed the important nutritional issues worthy
of questions. Perhaps it is too much trouble to look beyond the corporate
media myths and investigate the serious research.

Perhaps you have not investigated the contents of "animal sourced protein"
which is fed to dairy and meat animals. This industrial protein rendering
may indeed contain actual, intentionally included feces. (Even according to
National Public Radio's new Market program, from USC, as reported last
week). Also, a new Nobel prize nominee discovered a new non living germ
class, (is the new term Preons?), which account for Mad Cow Decease,
attributed to the practice of recycling dead cows back to live cows,
("animal protein", yummy!).   I heard Bucky (on tape), admire the rich
chemical content of human feces which he supposed could potentially become
idustrially interesting, but i dobt he had the above mentioned industrial
practices in mind.

American "health care" is not praise worthy for many reasons. My favorite
adopted rational is that it is really "Disease Care". It's very good at
going in and cutting or blasting things out, almost militarily. Life beyond
this sort of treatment is not  as peaceful or as much fun as before.
Alternatives include preventive living practices to begin with, like
simple, untainted diets. Ironically, very low cost diets like mine fit this
category. I haven't totally gotten off wine yet, but expect to, since i
doubt wine really works better than the minds very own entertainment and
pleasure producing tricks. It takes time to intentionally achieve these.

Yes, the patient study of diets around the world and the associated
diseases should synergistically provide us with better sign posts about
what to eat.  The French for example have among the highest cancer rates,
no?  The Eskimos, while beating heart Decease, still eat almost
exclusively: meat, but suffer kidney failure, (from excess protein), and
average death at 40?  Much to study here. Fads are a commercial thing, i
would hope for rational evolution based on extensively accumulated and
cross checked significances. Therefore i certainly welcome any contrasting
finds out there.

So Gary Murphy, may i introduce you to Gary Null's extensive research on
world wide research, starting with
http://www.garynull.com/radioschedule08-18.htm ? I've spent very little on
books, health products and hearing radio programs like Null's.... As a
satisfied, healthy, middle aged USA citizen i don't mind living without
health insurance. In fact I'm glad i've long accumulated bits of real
health information and avoided getting totally caught up in the "rat race
to the bottom"!

Yes, be merry, (regardless), and long live the evolution ? !


Bo  @kinson                    http://www.agate.net/~insearch
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Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 21:27:53 PDT
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From:         newaccounts@STOPAT.COM
Organization: Email PLATINUM
Subject:      Free FrontPage Web Site

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*All names are registered trade marks of their respective owners.
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Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:56:32 -0400
Reply-To:     garym@sympatico.ca
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From:         Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@MAYA.OSICOM.NET>
Subject:      [GKD97: S-G Kofi Annan's Message for World Habitat]

I thought some members of this list may have a few words to say on this
topic ...

From: information habitat <infohabitat@igc.apc.org>
Subject: GKD97: S-G Kofi Annan's Message for World Habitat Day 1997

How can information technology be applied for knowledge
that enables sustainable human settlements and the
implementation of the habitat agenda?

Please disseminate widely - apologies for cross-posting.

- -=-=-=-=-

3 October 1997

                  Press Release
                  SG/SM/6350
                  OBV/12

SECRETARY-GENERAL URGES EFFORTS TO DEVELOP SUSTAINABLE HUMAN
SETTLEMENTS, IN MESSAGE FOR WORLD HABITAT DAY, 6 OCTOBER

ADVANCE RELEASE Following is the text of a message by
Secretary-General Kofi Annan, on the occasion of World Habitat
Day, 6 October:

Human beings continue to face a compelling challenge: how to make
cities fit places to live, work and dream. Nearly one half the
world's population now lives in urban areas. Projections for the
year 2025 show that two thirds of us will be city dwellers.
Already straining under the pressures of meeting their peoples'
needs for housing, jobs and basic services, cities must also
address the environmental and social consequences of rapid
urbanization. These concerns transcend the borders of developed
and developing countries. Increasingly, in terms of the problems
they face, the world's cities are becoming more alike than not.

Cities and towns are engines of progress, the source of much of
the world's cultural, intellectual, educational, and
technological achievements and innovations. However, the stress
of rapid urban population growth is often overwhelming. The long
list of afflictions includes urban poverty rates of up to 60 per
cent. Despite growing investments, more than one third of the
urban population live in substandard housing. Forty per cent of
urban dwellers do not have access to safe drinking water or
adequate sanitation. These and other common problems -- such as
declining infrastructures, congestion, pollution and crime --
threaten not only the economic potential of cities, but also
social cohesion and political stability.

Last year's United Nations Conference on Human Settlements
(Habitat II), held in Istanbul, outlined a positive vision of
urbanization. World Habitat Day this year should be an
opportunity for people everywhere to continue looking at how they
can contribute to implementation of the Habitat Agenda -- the
comprehensive blueprint for creating sustainable human
settlements in the twenty-first century.

I urge all Member States and all people, including local
authorities and grass-roots organizations, to deepen the
partnerships they forged in Istanbul and to work closely with the
United Nations Centre for Human Settlements and the rest of the
United Nations system. Cities may be home to major problems, but
they are also the places where solutions to some of the world's
most complex and pressing questions are being worked out. I am
confident that, together, we can do much to improve the quality
of life in all the world's cities.

                             * *** *

     For more information on World Habitat Day, see
     http://www.unhabitat.org.whd
------- End of forwarded message -------
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@sympatico.ca> -- http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym/
TeleDynamics http://visitweb.com/teledynamics/ RR#1 Sauble Beach, Ont CAN
telecenter design  --  telework systems  --  intranet/extranet consulting
"You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." ----- Miles Davis
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:17:13 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Accessing synergetics via quadray coordinates (K-12)
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[a repost from sci.math]

As a part of our evolving homeschoolers' mathematics curriculum,
we've developed some introductory materials for teaching quadray
coordinates -- a somewhat unorthodox vector space using only
positive numbers.

This little game turns out to provide a useful introduction to
synergetic geometry, so we've decided to share the wealth.

See: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quadrays.html if curious.

Feedback welcome.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:43:46 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: REQ: Ideas/suggestions on geometry and fractions - 3rd grade
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mlady@mindspring.com (Sara) wrote:

>I'm a student teacher in Georgia.  I'm teaching 3rd grade.  I will be
>teaching a two week geometry unit in November and would appreciate any
>ideas or suggestions.  Thanks
>
>Sara
>mlady@mindspring.com
>

I good intro to fractions using geometric shapes begins
with the regular tetrahedron a your basic unit of volume.

Split it into four, then each of the four into six and
you get what are called A modules.

I realize this is hard to visualize.  I've got a pictures
for you at:

http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/images/amod.gif
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/summit/modslide.gif

The A mods have a volume of 1/4 x 1/6 = 1/24.  Then there's
the B mod, also of volume 1/24.

To see the A and B together check out:

http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/images/abmod.gif

Together, the A and B assemble into all kinds of familiar
polyhedra:

Shape        Volume

Tetrahedron      1
Cube             3
Octahedron       4
Dodecahedron     6
Cuboctahedron   20

(see http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/images/concent.gif
for a rough idea of how these fit together -- hard to
show without a classroom model)

Note the simple, whole number volumes, very nice, very
3rd grade.  So you have both fractions (1/4, 1/24) and
relative volumes (which are also fractions e.g. ratio
of Cuboct/cube = 20/3, that kind of thing).

The reason you probably would feel uncomfortable teaching
this material is

(a) it isn't in the text books -- not at the 3rd grade
    level, nor anywhere up through grades 12 to 16

and

(b) the preparation time needed to assemble A and B mods
    from paper cut-outs, plus to develop the other models,
    is pretty great, in the absence of kits or supplies
    already made up

This is all going to change of course -- tomorrow's teachers
are going to have a relatively easy time of it -- so if you
don't have time to bone up on this curriculum now, file it
away for future reference -- every kid will know the above
in the 21st Century (and thanks to our homeschooling network
here in Oregon, many of them are already learning it now).

Kirby


----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/




----------------------------
message approved for posting by k12.ed.math moderator:Sheila King
k12.ed.math is a moderated newsgroup.
charter for the newsgroup at www.wenet.net/~cking/sheila/charter.html
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Date:         Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:42:04 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Oregon Math Summit 1997
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
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pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote:

>
>For a personal account of the recently transpired
>Oregon Math Summit, featuring some heavy hitters
>from the math community, as well as myself as a
>workshop presenter, see:
>
>http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/mathsummit.html
>
>Feedback welcome.
>
>Kirby
>

Now with pictures!

Excerpt:

-------------

The teachers at this event were somewhat in a tizzy about
the new state standards, which get measured on a standard
test. The test has just gotten a lot harder, as State
Superintendent Norma Paulus reiterated in her post-lunch
banquet hall speech (held in the fancy new OSU alumni center),
and now most kids are likely to score rather poorly.  Only
half the kids in the state even take enough math in high
school to have an opportunity to score well -- and of those
only a small percentage will actually make top marks.  So
the teachers are caught in a bind, getting mixed messages.
The standard bearers are marshalling the rank and file to
drill drill drill to score high benchmarks, while the
assembled leadership from the mathematics department itself
is suggesting a more Renaissance approach, with lots of team
teaching and convergence of subject areas, "not trying to
turn students into poor imitations of a $20 calculator" as
Devlin puts it....

My response, expressed in the breakout session (as the
official note taker, I managed to interject twice -- once about
the wierdnesses in floating point math as implemented in computers,
reason enough to learn the algorithms on paper as well) was
that if teachers wanted to fight the standard bearers and take
back control of the curriculum (they all agreed that these
tests from on high were severely limiting their freedoms and
creativity as teachers on the front lines) they could use the
ammo I was supplying via Beyond Flatland.  Here was basic,
low level, primary school material that every kid should
know, and yet isn't part of the standard -- clear evidence
that the mathematics department knows relevant content far
better than whatever officials charged with concocting these
tests.

If teachers rally around obviously relevant curriculum that the
standards people are oblivious about, they have a chance to
convince parents that junior will get a better deal if the
mathematics department is given more responsibility, not less
-- like I said to Ralph after his class, it's folks like you
that should be our chief curriculum designers, not committees of
well-meaning bureaucrats who think they know what the curriculum
should look like, and yet haven't a clue about what Ralph Abraham
is doing to enhance it.

-------------

Kirby

>From the handout used in my Beyond Flatland presentation:

ABOUT THE PRESENTER

Kirby Urner has experienced mathematics as a high school classroom
teacher and as a curriculum writer-reviewer for McGraw-Hill, a
text book publisher. Partly as a result of his interest in computer
science andphilosophy, his focus subjects at Princeton University,
he gravitated towards web-based distance learning approaches,
serving as the Buckminster Fuller Institute"s first webmaster and
creating Synergetics on the Web which IBM"s website reviewer
John R. Quain has praised as "one of the finest and most cohesive
Web sites yet created on any subject".  Kirby is currently self-
employed as a curriculum writer (including for home schoolers)
and public service provider for his Portland-based firm,
4D Solutions.


----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:36:56 -0400
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: REQ: Ideas/suggestions on geometry and fractions - 3rd grade
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sara (mlady@mindspring.com),
You wrote:
>I'm a student teacher in Georgia.  I'm teaching 3rd grade.  I will be
>teaching a two week geometry unit in November and would appreciate any
>ideas or suggestions.  Thanks

I have several Platonic and Archimedean solids in cut out form at my WEB
site: URL:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/cut-outm.htm
Bob
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:03:20 -0400
Reply-To:     garym@sympatico.ca
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@MAYA.OSICOM.NET>
Subject:      Re: REQ: Ideas/suggestions on geometry and fractio
Comments: cc: k12math@sd28.bc.ca, mlady@mindspring.com
In-Reply-To:  <TCPSMTP.17.10.10.2.51.54.2781597121.1584487@bbs.sos.on.ca>
              (geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu)

>>>>> "ku" == Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> writes:

    ku> mlady@mindspring.com (Sara) wrote:

    >> I'm a student teacher in Georgia.  I'm teaching 3rd grade.  I
    >> will be teaching a two week geometry unit in November and would
    >> appreciate any ideas or suggestions.  Thanks
    >>
    >> Sara mlady@mindspring.com

Preparation for any gradeschool applications of synergetic thinking
should include reading Bucky's book about his day with three
schoolchildren, "Fuller's earth : a day with Bucky and the kids"
([edited] by Richard J.  Brenneman. -- 1st ed. -- New York :
St. Martin's Press, c1984) ... while the book may be construed as more
a text on physics than on math, I don't believe Bucky saw any real
difference, and I doubt nature does.

Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@sympatico.ca> -- http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym/
TeleDynamics http://visitweb.com/teledynamics/ RR#1 Sauble Beach, Ont CAN
telecenter design  --  telework systems  --  intranet/extranet consulting
"You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." ----- Miles Davis
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Oct 1997 02:31:20 -0700
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Subject:      Re: Subscribing to this listserv
In-Reply-To:  <97216.182430VITYC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> (message from Ben Malkevitch
              on Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:24:29 EDT)

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                                  (Snip snip)
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 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
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                           -----------------------
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:11:17 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: REQ: Ideas/suggestions on geometry and fractions - 3rd grade
Mime-Version: 1.0
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pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote:

>----------------------------
>message approved for posting by k12.ed.math moderator:Sheila King
>k12.ed.math is a moderated newsgroup.
>charter for the newsgroup at www.wenet.net/~cking/sheila/charter.html
>submissions: post to k12.ed.math or e-mail to k12math@sd28.bc.ca

Apologies if you got the above

Re: REQ:  Ideas/suggestions on geometry and fractions - 3rd grade

and

1997 Oregon Math Summit

posts twice -- on my newsreader I have duplicate entries.

What happened is I submitted these two posts to k12.ed.math,
a newgroup I'd been boycotting for some months, and which has
since become a moderated group (nothing to do with me --
I was always civil (probably the porno ads were getting
just too shocking)).  Sheila apparently just cleared the
above for posting, after a couple days lag in the hopper,
and also in the process resent them to newsgroups where
moderation is not such an issue.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:13:12 GMT
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: REQ: Ideas/suggestions on geometry and fractio
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@MAYA.OSICOM.NET> wrote:

>Preparation for any gradeschool applications of synergetic thinking
>should include reading Bucky's book about his day with three
>schoolchildren, "Fuller's earth : a day with Bucky and the kids"
>([edited] by Richard J.  Brenneman. -- 1st ed. -- New York :
>St. Martin's Press, c1984) ... while the book may be construed as more
>a text on physics than on math, I don't believe Bucky saw any real
>difference, and I doubt nature does.
>

I disagree.  Preparation for teaching gradeschool-level synergetics
need not involve reading anything about Bucky, although of course
it may, and probably will.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:37:41 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: REQ: Ideas/suggestions on geometry and fractio
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote:

>Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@MAYA.OSICOM.NET> wrote:
>
>>Preparation for any gradeschool applications of synergetic thinking
>>should include reading Bucky's book about his day with three
>>schoolchildren, "Fuller's earth : a day with Bucky and the kids"
>>([edited] by Richard J.  Brenneman. -- 1st ed. -- New York :
>>St. Martin's Press, c1984) ... while the book may be construed as more
>>a text on physics than on math, I don't believe Bucky saw any real
>>difference, and I doubt nature does.
>>
>
>I disagree.  Preparation for teaching gradeschool-level synergetics
>need not involve reading anything about Bucky, although of course
>it may, and probably will.
>
>Kirby
>


Like, I just want to be clear with teachers that in choosing
to grapple with the subject matter of synergetics, they are not
thereby buying into some personality cult.  There's no mandatory
marketing tie-in saying now that you're teaching synergetics you
need a classroom poster of "Uncle Buck" being a gentle giant
surrounded by hosts of admiring little children, available for
only $19.95 from the BFI.

We went that route with the Lenin iconography and look where we
are today, lots of empty pedastals amidst a lot of heartfelt
backlash against those fanatical ram-rodders who forced
personality worship down the throats of newbie communists, now
grown-ups and not about to be lectured to by any oldster party
hard-liners ever again.

Synergetics is about daring to be naive, yes, but not with an
eye towards endlessly repeating the mistakes of the hopelessly
unsophisticated.

Kirby
for the Fuller School

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:17:57 -0400
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         David Culberson <StarCon101@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Sources of Dome Hubs & Connectors.

I'm looking for sources of Dome hubs and connectors. Any help
will be very much appreciated. We plan to make our own struts.

David Culberson
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:24:11 +0200
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:38:08 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Thomas Dosemagen <dosemagt@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Sources of Dome Hubs & Connectors.
In-Reply-To:  <971012001755_-695019251@emout03.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Natural Spaces in North Branch Minnesota will sell you their hub and strut
connectors and provide you with the correct measurements for your stuts.

You can reach them at 800-733-7107 or  email at djohnson@natural
spacesdomes.com

At 12:17 AM 10/12/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm looking for sources of Dome hubs and connectors. Any help
>will be very much appreciated. We plan to make our own struts.
>
>David Culberson
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:10:37 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller
Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lauren,

Would you mind posting the ways that people can contact the R.Buckminster
Fuller Estate? [Email, US mail, phone, fax, etc.]

Thanks,

Joe
****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Lauren7333@aol.com <Lauren7333@aol.com>
To: synergetics-l@teleport.com <synergetics-l@teleport.com>
Date: Thursday, October 09, 1997 03:38 PM
Subject: Re: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller


>
>In a message dated 10/5/97 1:49:05 PM, you wrote:
>
>>On another note..is there anyone who
>>lives in NYC who would allow me to photocopy es copy of A SYNERGETICS
>>DICTIONARY? I have looked everywhere, and it is only available as a
>reference
>>item, so i cannot copy it from them.
>
>
>Have you called Garland Press? I'm not sure if they have any copies left
but
>it would be worth a try ( know they were selling their remaining stock last
>year).
>
>Lauren Darges
>Estate of R. B. Fuller
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:22:47 -0400
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         John Belt <belt@OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller
In-Reply-To:  <01bcd7f2$8c0ab260$0100007f@localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> ****************************************
> * Joe S. Moore
> * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
> * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
> * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
> * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> ****************************************
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lauren7333@aol.com <Lauren7333@aol.com>
> To: synergetics-l@teleport.com <synergetics-l@teleport.com>
> Date: Thursday, October 09, 1997 03:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller
>
>
> >
> >In a message dated 10/5/97 1:49:05 PM, you wrote:
> >
> >>On another note..is there anyone who
> >>lives in NYC who would allow me to photocopy es copy of A SYNERGETICS
> >>DICTIONARY? I have looked everywhere, and it is only available as a
> >reference
> >>item, so i cannot copy it from them.
> >
> >
> >Have you called Garland Press? I'm not sure if they have any copies left
> but
> >it would be worth a try ( know they were selling their remaining stock last
> >year).
> >
> >Lauren Darges
> >Estate of R. B. Fuller
> >.-
...............................................> >
>

        Hello All,
fyi ...... The Dictionary Set is four volumes and are a total of seven
inches thick.

        In NYC check the library of The National Design Museum--formerly
The Cooper-Hewitt Museum, this is the only Smithsonian museum not located
on the mall in Washington, DC.   I do not recall if they have it but they
should.

        If you are in the Oswego, NY area you may utilize my set, but
only on site.  I also have a lot of video, film, reprints and books if you
are in the area or want to pack a sleeping bag and lunch, welcome.

        BFI might be able to inform you and the list of other public
access sources.  BFI@aol.com

        Good Luck, john belt    <belt@oswego.edu>
        SUNY OSWEGO
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 14 Oct 1997 02:54:15 GMT
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Organization: Logical Net
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Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:00:07 -0700
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From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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to June, 1992. Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with
this message in the BODY of the note:

INDEX GEODESIC

        You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are
interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and
unsubscribe.)

Pat
 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
                           -----------------------
                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 02:27:22 AM
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From:         N6xJzymB7@N4MATION.COM
Subject:      Hi-End Stereo and Video Equipment
Comments: To: friendz@onallthe.net

Now there is a place to go to find Hi-End stereo and Video equipment with
out leaving your office or home. Go to your computer and tune in on the
INTERNET http://www.absmart.com this will take you to a unique service now
being offered by AB&Smart. A service long overdue for the seller of Hi-End
equipment and of great benefit for those buyer's in search of Hi-End
equipment at bargain prices.
Whether you are a buyer or seller of Hi-End equipment AB&SMART is the place
to do it, why not check to see if we have the equipment or accessories that
you have been searching for. Or maybe now is the time to list the equipment
that you have not gotten around to selling yet our rates are inexpensive
and the FIRST AD is "FREE".


        Audio Buyer's & Seller's Mart, Inc
        P.O. Box 33626
        Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33420
        561-840-8081
        sales@absmart.com

=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:35:49 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      YOUR NAME
Comments: To: minster@mit.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BCD956.1A8D1640"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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Is your name REALLY Sawyer BUCKMINSTER FULLER?  If so, how did that come =
about?=20

****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Is your name REALLY Sawyer =
BUCKMINSTER=20
FULLER?&nbsp; If so, how did that come about? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2><BR>****************************************<BR>* Joe S. =
Moore<BR>*=20
Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar<BR>* <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@mail.cruzio.com">joemoore@mail.cruzio.com</A><BR>=
*=20
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute<BR>* <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>****************************************</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BOD=
Y></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BCD956.1A8D1640--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:40:36 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      More re algebraic bridge to/from Synergetics
Mime-Version: 1.0
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For those of you interesting in the Quadrays thread,
I've better formalized the whole business of converting
quadrays to and from xyz at:

http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quadxyz.html

This paper gives the conversion algorithms in both
matrix notation and procedural language, after first
defining the scale and orientation conventions along
the same lines as in 'An Introduction to Quadrays'
at quadrays.html.

These papers give enough information for any algebra
head to implement quadrays in a Euclidean setting,
making a nifty bridge to/from Fuller's more avant
garde Synergetics, wherein a more humanities-centric
(less computer-centric) language is employed.

I encourage all Synergetics students to freely
reference these pages in emails when discussing our
self-discipline with more traditionally reflex-
conditioned math types.  I agree with Larry Mintz:
in this quadrays thread we've gone more than half
way in compensating for cultural biases that dictate
a particular look and feel at the interface level.
Here, the concentric hierarchy meets Cartesian style
orthodoxy at a level no classroom teacher should
have much problem with.

Kirby


----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:10:34 -0700
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From:         "N.H.C.L.C." <sshader@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: http://www.newhorizons.com
Subject:      Re: Sources of Dome Hubs & Connectors.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Thomas Dosemagen wrote:
>
> Natural Spaces in North Branch Minnesota will sell you their hub and strut
> connectors and provide you with the correct measurements for your stuts.
>
> You can reach them at 800-733-7107 or  email at djohnson@natural
> spacesdomes.com
>
> At 12:17 AM 10/12/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >I'm looking for sources of Dome hubs and connectors. Any help
> >will be very much appreciated. We plan to make our own struts.
> >
> >David Culberson
> >

Could't you create hubs out of heavy guage PVC pipe, and the spokes out
of two by fours (douglas fur). I assume the spokes are all the same
length. When your finished, you could cover the whole thing in clear
visqeen plastic, say 6 mil skin . What do you think ?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:14:02 GMT
Reply-To:     box2321@teleport.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: box2321.com
Subject:      Re: Sources of Dome Hubs & Connectors.

N.H.C.L.C. <sshader@ix.netcom.com>:
>Could't you create hubs out of heavy guage PVC pipe, and the spokes out
>of two by fours (douglas fur). I assume the spokes are all the same
>length. When your finished, you could cover the whole thing in clear
>visqeen plastic, say 6 mil skin . What do you think ?

I think it's important to understand that while it's necessary,
instructive and fun to build models - including full-scale 'working'
models - of geodesic structures, what Bucky had in mind was a housing
_industry_, not a new kind of housing craft.  I have built little model
domes, and some day I may have to build my own dome out of whatever I
can afford if they are never mass produced.

But it was mass production that Bucky had in mind.  Building one or a
dozen or a few hundred domes out of wood is okay, but building thousands
and thousands using machined parts is the point: it is when the
production is high that the cost goes down and the real efficiency
occurs.  Bucky's parable about building a car from scratch applies not
only to conventional housing but domes as well, when they are made at a
pre-industrial level in this post-industrial age.

So what can be done?  Keep making those models, to prime the cultural
pump in readiness for a housing industry.  Become billionaires and
invest in the housing industry.  Support budding housing industry
companies.  Encourage existing automotive & aviation industries to
branch into housing.  Get humanity into space, where the technology
trickle-down is most world-around.

- Trevor

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:35:59 -0400
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         David Culberson <StarCon101@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Sources of Dome Hubs & Connectors.

Trveor,

I agree with your comments 100%. Encourage existing industry to
recognise the need for affordable housing and manufacture modular
dome components. Dome housing must be seperated from existing
grossly overpriced housing industry. People should not be required
to sign their lives away to qualify for a home and pay for it 3 times.

David Culberson

In a message dated 97-10-18 16:27:02 EDT, you write:

<<
 I think it's important to understand that while it's necessary,
 instructive and fun to build models - including full-scale 'working'
 models - of geodesic structures, what Bucky had in mind was a housing
 _industry_, not a new kind of housing craft.  I have built little model
 domes, and some day I may have to build my own dome out of whatever I
 can afford if they are never mass produced.

 But it was mass production that Bucky had in mind.  Building one or a
 dozen or a few hundred domes out of wood is okay, but building thousands
 and thousands using machined parts is the point: it is when the
 production is high that the cost goes down and the real efficiency
 occurs.  Bucky's parable about building a car from scratch applies not
 only to conventional housing but domes as well, when they are made at a
 pre-industrial level in this post-industrial age.

 So what can be done?  Keep making those models, to prime the cultural
 pump in readiness for a housing industry.  Become billionaires and
 invest in the housing industry.  Support budding housing industry
 companies.  Encourage existing automotive & aviation industries to
 branch into housing.  Get humanity into space, where the technology
 trickle-down is most world-around.

 - Trevor

 --
   Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
   Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
  >>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:27:47 -0500
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes
Subject:      Re: Sources of Dome Hubs & Connectors.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

That's exactly what I do, with a special [patent pending] connecting
configuration; except for a translucent cover I use 10 mil woven poly
that's made for greenhouse use. My updated web siteexplains more about
this. Of the many patented geodesic connectors (there are many) none are
quite like what I do, especially the features enabling 12 (or more)
struts connected to a hub and quick connecting and disconnecting
ability. And all of them as I recall are more complicated, some
extremely so.
Ernie
Garden Domes
http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/welcome.shtml
Wildlife Ministries Intl.
http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/wmi/wildlifemin.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:13:00 -0500
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes
Subject:      Re: Sources of Dome Hubs & Connectors.
Comments: To: box2321@teleport.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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That's what I would like to do: mass produce domes for homes etc. using
space technology. There's too many cheapy prefab mobile homes "not to
mention" the
overpriced cheapy mass produced single family residences.
  I saw where they used $3.4 billion for the plutonium powered satellite
Saturn probe and $26 billion/yr. for CIA spying. Can I have *only* a
million for a Dept. of Energy grant?
  It seems where they need living shelters [domes] most is places where
they don't make too many cars or planes. India and Peru buy (former)
USSR fighter jets instead of building homes when the people live in
shanty-shacks.
  How much would Fuller's mass produced home cost in todays dollars?
  There is a NASA www site for spinoff technology. I suppose the defense
military industry has similar spinoffs. For me although supporting
weaponry, it is employment; and there is nothing like seeing an F-16
fly.
Ernie
NASA Benefits from Space -
http://technology.jsc.nasa.gov
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Press Release+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>  FORT WORTH, Texas -- The U.S. defense bill that was approved
by
> President Clinton recently included funding for three
additional F-16
> aircraft.
>         The newly funded Block 50/52 F-16 C/D aircraft will
provide the United States Air Force the world's only
operational fourth generation fighter.  The new F-16s will be
delivered in 2001.
>         "The F-16 is the recognized premier multirole fighter
across the
> world," said Robert T. Elrod, vice president of F-16 programs
at
> Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems.   "The decision to
fund
> additional aircraft further demonstrates the U.S. leadership
recognition
> that the F-16 will remain the world's most effective
multirole fighter
> well into the next century and beyond. The F-16 will continue
to
> comprise over 55% of the USAF in 2010 when the Joint Strike
fighter
> becomes operational."
>         The newly funded F-16s will include some of the
latest
> technology enhancements including color multifunctional
displays and
> programmable display generator, a new Modular Mission
Computer, a
> Digital Terrain System, a new color video camera and color
triple-deck
> video recorder to record the pilot's head-up display view,
and an
> upgraded data transfer unit.  The F-16 continues as the
dominant fighter
> for international air forces -- 19 air forces across the
world currently
> depend on F-16s for their countries' defense.  More than
3,600 F-16s
> have been built with over 100 configurations which permits
insertion of
> advanced technologies needed to meet to specific customer
requirements.
> The F-16 continues as the main fighter of the NATO forces,
including
> ongoing missions in Bosnia.
>         ###
>
> For more information about LMTAS and its products, visit  the
following
> website: http://www.lmtas.com.
>
> ____________________________________
Worldflower Garden Domes - "Geodesics for your landscape"
http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/welcome.shtml
__________________________________________
Wildlife Ministries International benefitting wildlife and educating the

public about nature and the environment.
http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/wmi/wildlifemin.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:29:49 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Maybe when the USA prez chats with those college presidents
about his reading program today he'll want to advise 'em of
the upcoming national "walk out of math class day" some
friends and I are dreaming about.  No date specified yet,
that I know of, and still thinking about what's the best
age range to most closely involve.  College kids are
definitely on board, but I'm looking at the K-12 picture.

Traditionally, the youngest get left out of any such protest
action, as it can be too emotionally traumatic for them to
subvert the authority of much loved teachers for a cause too
nebulous to grasp (some might argue that the tetrahedron
isn't nebulous, but that's a whole other thread).

My feeling is 6th graders are probably old enough to get some
educational benefit from a math class walk out and as news of
the action spreads, I'm guessing the kids will be able to
recruit a healthy number of teachers and administrators to
support this 20 minute maneuver, or at least turn a blind eye.
I get enough emails from math teachers today to suggest that,
here in Oregon at least, the rationale for a walk out is well
understood at many levels.

At the high school level, we already have definite leadership
emerging, with seniors knowing clearly that their educational
experience has been hampered by bureaucratic suppression and
meddling aimed at killing off core math department initiatives
designed to empower them and boost their thinking skills --
in the area of spatial geometry especially.

Our focus here should be to remind students about the norms
of constructive civil disobedience.  No loud or rude behavior
is required.  Wearing a tie might be a good idea -- but no
arm bands.  Pink Floyd's "we don't need no education..."
theme, while clearly germane, is too aggressively hostile
against most teachers, who don't indulge in sarcasm at the
level targeted by that song -- different in the UK perhaps
but that's not our problem.  I also discourage the wearing
of 'Buck U' T-shirts -- again, invective should be kept to
a minimum.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:28:25 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Promo <Promo@JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM>
Subject:      National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified) -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

>>> Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> 10/21/97 10:29am >>>

>I get enough emails from math teachers today to suggest that,
>here in Oregon at least, the rationale for a walk out is well
>understood at many levels.

Although I understand that the math I was taught in school (barring
addition and multiplication, which I still use) didn't stick and wasn't
interesting, what is the rationale?

I mean, really, why calculus?  I still don't have an answer for that one.
That damn course (the one that eventually got me removed from higher
education) seems just as pointless now as it did back then.  No glamour,
no excitement, no clearly visible and understandable application (at least,
as it was taught and in the way that I was trying to learn it).

My attraction to the philosphies of Fuller have to do with the optimism, the
more-with-less concept, and the visible tangible end results.  He says
time and again, that if you are using the right approach, Universe will
support through non-obvious intervention, the path of that approach to
success.  If that holds, any lack of success can be traced to incorrect
angle of approach - nothing more, nothing less.

>At the high school level, we already have definite leadership
>emerging, with seniors knowing clearly that their educational
>experience has been hampered by bureaucratic suppression and
>meddling aimed at killing off core math department initiatives
>designed to empower them and boost their thinking skills --
>in the area of spatial geometry especially.

My memories of high school (~10 years ago) was that it was something
to get through, not a place to learn.  First I had to survive through the
teaching/grading system, and then I had to survive the peer/socialization
system.  Barring the skills it gave me in dealing with these systems
(which has little to do with the kind of learning that I'm really interested in)
school was useless.

This 'bureaucratic suppression' comment sounds like
conspiracy-mongering.  Don't the people involved in education want kids
to learn?

>Our focus here should be to remind students about the norms
>of constructive civil disobedience.

It seemed to me (at the time and place that I experienced education) that
constructive civil disobedience really didn't do much.  The furthest I took
this was a spate of activism during the Gulf War, which accomplished
nothing (there appeared to be an almost total media blackout of people
who didn't toe the line).

I think (in recent list conversation) that too much emphasis has been
placed on 'changing people's minds' or concepts relating to this.  What it
all boils down to (in my mind) is the creation of the tools.  If you make a
better/cheaper/more efficient tool, it gets used.  The process of using it
changes the way people think.  So, by creating the better tool, you
create the change in thought pattern.  Trying to do this the opposite way
around does not seem to be feasible.  I think that applies to the concepts
of civil disobedience as well.

Pat has talked along these lines a little in his intitial mail about floating city
projects.  Most seem to get to the fund-raising stage and die.  What is the
minimum necessary to start something?  Do we really need more than a
few solar panels and the correct bucky-structure made of chicken wire
to start the electrodeposition process?  Can the city of the future be
started in a small inlet for $50?  If not, why not?

Brian - sorry folks, I feel like I'm in a mud pit and my tires are spinning
wildly today.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:52:22 +0100
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Nick Creagh <sjoh0102@SABLE.OX.AC.UK>
Organization: Oxford University
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
In-Reply-To:  <344cc9db.1529123@news.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Kirby Urner wrote:

[multiple snips]

Ok, so I may only be a Brit, a maths undergrad and a relative newbie here
but did I miss something? Why on earth would you want to walk out of a
mathematics class? I remember mine as people continually sniping at the
bad organisation and the uselessness of the school.
And that was the teachers. Otherwise, it was one of the best taught
classes I ever went to. I'd walk out of History personally. Or Biology
(too many pigs trotter). But not maths.

---
Nick Creagh
Oxford
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:22:33 -0400
Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject:      nano-diamonds
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

TURNING ONIONS INTO DIAMONDS.  Nano-diamonds can
be created without high pressure by squeezing carbon "onions"
(nested buckyball-like structures) with ion beams.  Graphite
material can be made into diamond the hard way, with the use of
high pressure (above 10^6 atmospheres), high temperature, and
the use of catalysts.  But recently scientists have been able to
bombard carbon onions with electron beams and now ion beams
as well, and have been able to convert the onions almost
completely into diamonds, up to 100 nm in size.  Researchers at
the Max Planck Institute in Stuttgart (Florian Banhart,
banhart@wselix.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de) use a beam of neon ions
to pelt the onions, which act like miniature pressure cells.  With
larger ion accelerators, one should be able to make macroscopic
amounts of irradiation-induced diamond.  (Experimental work:
Wesolowski et al., Applied Physics Letters, 6 Oct. 1997; theory
paper (Zaiser and Banhart) upcoming in Physical Review Letters;
figure at www.aip.org/physnews/graphics.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:07:28 -0400
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Beth Reid <MAMATURTL1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)

In a message dated 97-10-21 15:46:56 EDT, you write:

<<  I also discourage the wearing
 of 'Buck U' T-shirts --  >>

Is there really a BUCK U t-shirt??? Where would I find one? If there isn't
one, I would love to make these. I design custom t-shirts. Someone let me
know.

Turtle Beth
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:30:52 -0700
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From:         Nick Halloway <snowe@RAIN.ORG>
Organization: Regional Alliance for Information Networking (RAIN)
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.96.971021194910.15505C-100000@sable.ox.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Nick Creagh wrote:

> I'd walk out of History personally. Or Biology
> (too many pigs trotter). But not maths.

Yes; in my biology class in high school the teacher decided we would eat
snails.

So we picked snails from the garden.  Then we
fed them on cornmeal for a week, to get their guts nice and clean,
something you would want to eat.

Then, we had to pull our snails out of their shells.  Mine didn't want
to come out.  I yanked on it awhile, while it exuded the pale foam of
panic.  Then I flayed it slowly, peeling off one piece of shell at a time.

Then we all tossed0 our bits of writhing snail-flesh into a pressure
cooker.

You have to cook snails twice; the first time they exude masses of
green foam -- perhaps this is what snails do during near-death
experiences.  Then, we washed the green foam off, and boiled them more.

We dusted the snails with garlic, put them on hot buttered bread
and then were asked to eat them.  I swallowed mine.

I've never eaten frogs' legs again either; I figure I could see the
toes and that bothers me.


red of tooth and claw,
me.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:30:48 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kevin Delson <delsonk@SPHINX-GROUP.COM>
Organization: Xerox Federal Credit Union
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
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I am not sure about you brit's, but here in the U.S. I know college
grads who can't solve a  word problem dealing with fractions. Math may
be the best class to walk out on since taxes deal with numbers not
historical information.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Oct 1997 02:07:39 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified) -Reply
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Promo <Promo@JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM> wrote:

>>>> Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> 10/21/97 10:29am >>>
>
>>I get enough emails from math teachers today to suggest that,
>>here in Oregon at least, the rationale for a walk out is well
>>understood at many levels.
>
>Although I understand that the math I was taught in school (barring
>addition and multiplication, which I still use) didn't stick and wasn't
>interesting, what is the rationale?
>

What is the rationale for how/what math is taught today, or the
rationale for the planned walkout?

>My attraction to the philosphies of Fuller have to do with the optimism, the
>more-with-less concept, and the visible tangible end results.

What about the math?  Do you tune that in or do you like your Fuller
watery?  That's the point of the walkout:  kids aren't getting anything
about the concentric hierarchy.

See: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/synergetica/outline1.html

>My memories of high school (~10 years ago) was that it was something
>to get through, not a place to learn.  First I had to survive through the
>teaching/grading system, and then I had to survive the peer/socialization
>system.  Barring the skills it gave me in dealing with these systems
>(which has little to do with the kind of learning that I'm really interested
in)
>school was useless.
>
>This 'bureaucratic suppression' comment sounds like
>conspiracy-mongering.  Don't the people involved in education want kids
>to learn?
>

Your two paragraphs seem to contain a conflicting message:

(a) high school was a waste of time, nothing to do with learning

(b) aren't people who run this system most interested in what's
    in it for the kids?

>>Our focus here should be to remind students about the norms
>>of constructive civil disobedience.
>
>It seemed to me (at the time and place that I experienced education) that
>constructive civil disobedience really didn't do much.  The furthest I took
>this was a spate of activism during the Gulf War, which accomplished
>nothing (there appeared to be an almost total media blackout of people
>who didn't toe the line).
>

I'd widen my scope if I were you:  civil disobedience has a long and
venerable history in this country, although it's true that it did
little to keep dinos from clashing in the Gulf.

>I think (in recent list conversation) that too much emphasis has been
>placed on 'changing people's minds' or concepts relating to this.  What it
>all boils down to (in my mind) is the creation of the tools.  If you make a
>better/cheaper/more efficient tool, it gets used.  The process of using it
>changes the way people think.  So, by creating the better tool, you
>create the change in thought pattern.  Trying to do this the opposite way
>around does not seem to be feasible.  I think that applies to the concepts
>of civil disobedience as well.
>

Better tools for civil disobedience yes.  Pagers a big help, plus
cell phones.  And of course the internet -- compresses months of
organizing into minutes.  More with less.  Hoping to get some
respected math centers to back the action.  Sent a memo to the
MAA.  Maybe the NCMT will jump aboard.

A lot of serious math teachers already know the Fuller geometry
is ripe for inclusion -- just a lot of committees charged with
doing stardardized testing based on yesterday's text book models
remain clueless, because not really very vested in Mathematics.

Synergetics gives the math teachers a way to highlight why the
math department, not standardized testers, should be having more
of a say in the curriculum.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Oct 1997 02:08:40 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Nick Halloway <snowe@rain.org> wrote:

>
>
>On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Nick Creagh wrote:
>
>> I'd walk out of History personally. Or Biology
>> (too many pigs trotter). But not maths.
>

Hey that was interesting.  I'm eaten both snails
and frogs but didn't have to go through such hell
to prepare them -- I let the chefs at Club Med
take care of the gory details.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:03:39 -0400
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From:         Beth Reid <MAMATURTL1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)

In a message dated 97-10-22 01:32:31 EDT, you write:

<< Hey that was interesting.  I'm eaten both snails
 and frogs but didn't have to go through such hell
 to prepare them -- I let the chefs at Club Med
 take care of the gory details.
  >>

Ah, but have you ever had a squid and corn pizza at Shakey's in Tokyo? Life
is full of intersting adventures. LOL

Moving right along, I'd love to hear from someone who has built a home sized
dome and is living in it permanently. We are still in the planning stages,
and will be moving to our site in Montana next fall. Would appreciate
corresponding with someone who has *been there and done that* so to speak. We
are building the dome ourselves, preferably not from a kit due to the
expense. Anyone???

Thanks,
Beth Reid
MAMATURTL1@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:41:58 +0100
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From:         Justin Smith <smit8111@TAO.SOU.EDU>
Organization: -
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET

> Traditionally, the youngest get left out of any such protest
> action, as it can be too emotionally traumatic for them to
> subvert the authority of much loved teachers for a cause too
> nebulous to grasp (some might argue that the tetrahedron
> isn't nebulous, but that's a whole other thread).


Maybe the younger ones are smarter?


Why would you even want to walk out of math class?

Also, why even walk out? Why not just not show up? And in college, where
you are paying for your classes, this is ridiculous. It is even if you
aren't paying for classes with your own money.


-Justin Smith
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:44:22 -0400
Reply-To:     garym@sympatico.ca
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@OSICOM.NET>
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unsp
In-Reply-To:  <TCPSMTP.17.10.22.7.59.28.2781597121.1600106@bbs.sos.on.ca>
              (geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu)

    js> Why would you even want to walk out of math class?

Why would you need a political action at all?  Did A.J.Krapper organize
a mass walk-out of latrines?  Were there mass protests to demand central
heating?  Even to be more modern, are we having mass demonstrations to
de-regulate Cable/Telco boundaries?

What do we want?    Synergetics recognized in gradeschool.
When do we want it? Now.

First step:  Take inventory.

      Is there a suitable gradeschool textbook edition of Synergetics?
      Is there a suitable accompanying workbook and teacher's edition?
      Which grades are missing in these lists?
      Where are these text available and where is it needed?
      Can we print/ship it cheaper?

      Who do we have who could write, edit or contribute appropriate material?
      Do we have sympathetic classes who would test and review the material?
      Do we know any classes (Kirby?) where the teaching of synergetics occurs?
      Does it show any impact on immediate or later test scores?
      Does it show any impact on test scores in other subjects?

      What are the current math textbooks in use for each grade?
      Are there many or just a few?  Is there a geographic relationship?
      Is there a demographic relationship?  Are there other criteria?

Second step:  Create the prototype.

       If we have no text for a particular grade, we should commission one.
       Ditto for the workbooks and teacher's editions.  These should be
       sensitive to the reasons for the diversity and selection of
       existing text books (see "Laws of Media" by Marshal and Eric McLuhan)

Third step:  "Survival means 'putting into practice'" (Zen proverb)

      Deploy the prototype for evaluation, produce a thorough report and
      distribute the report widely. As with the inventory, make note of
      any impact on academic standing.  Prepare papers, posters &c for
      submission to respected teacher conferences.

If this serves the maximum number of people for the minimum cost at the
least trouble to the ecology, we'll prevail.

So ... what needs doing now?

Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@sympatico.ca> -- http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym/
TeleDynamics http://visitweb.com/teledynamics/ RR#1 Sauble Beach, Ont CAN
telecenter design  --  telework systems  --  intranet/extranet consulting
"You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." ----- Miles Davis
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:52:15 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 10:42 PM 10/21/97 +0100, you wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.education, bit.listserv.geodesic,sci.math)
>
>
>> Traditionally, the youngest get left out of any such protest
>> action, as it can be too emotionally traumatic for them to
>> subvert the authority of much loved teachers for a cause too
>> nebulous to grasp (some might argue that the tetrahedron
>> isn't nebulous, but that's a whole other thread).
>
>
>Maybe the younger ones are smarter?
>

Yes, often the case -- until they've been through the dumbing
down process, after which they're just like the rest.

>
>Why would you even want to walk out of math class?
>

Because this is a place where the curriculum is undefended
against big positive change initiatives:  we call it the
design science revolution, and already count many college
professors in our ranks.  But the content isn't being
allowed into the lower grades because it's too subversive
of how math is currently taught.

>Also, why even walk out? Why not just not show up? And in college, where
>you are paying for your classes, this is ridiculous. It is even if you
>aren't paying for classes with your own money.
>

Walking out is more dramatic and makes a point -- shows the
people involved in the action are making a conscious and
aware statement.  Not showing up could more be a sign of
spaciness, apathy, boredom, lack of involvement.  In this
case, we want to send the message that we know that we're
being ripped off and we want to see a change.

As to college kids, the case is even clearer:  here's some
vital curriculum content you should be getting for your
money, but it's being kept under wraps, because, again,
it's easier to put off until tomorrow what is difficult
to think about today (hence two decades have gone by and
still most kids know practically nothing about synergetic
geometry).

Kirby

PS:  May 17, 1998 is shaping up to be the action date
-- around the time of a new series on Mathematics appears
on PBS (April).  Public interest the "the M word" should
be peaking around then.  Also interest in what design
science could mean for their future (positive) but why
it hasn't meant much of anything until now (negative).

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Oct 1997 15:02:11 GMT
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Beth Reid <MAMATURTL1@AOL.COM> wrote:

>In a message dated 97-10-22 01:32:31 EDT, you write:
>
><< Hey that was interesting.  I'm eaten both snails
> and frogs but didn't have to go through such hell
> to prepare them -- I let the chefs at Club Med
> take care of the gory details.
>  >>
>

"We are what we eat" -- scary thought huh?  Works at a more
metaphysical level too (they say you can tell a New York Times
reader just from the way they talk -- I don't believe it).

>Ah, but have you ever had a squid and corn pizza at Shakey's in Tokyo? Life
>is full of intersting adventures. LOL
>

Yummy.  I like squid -- the dried stuff my Korean friend Kijoon Yu
would serve me (his dad was Korean ambassador to Italy) was way
tastey.  But no, never had that combo pizza you mention.

>Moving right along, I'd love to hear from someone who has built a home sized
>dome and is living in it permanently. We are still in the planning stages,
>and will be moving to our site in Montana next fall. Would appreciate
>corresponding with someone who has *been there and done that* so to speak. We
>are building the dome ourselves, preferably not from a kit due to the
>expense. Anyone???
>
>Thanks,
>Beth Reid
>MAMATURTL1@aol.com

I'm always somewhat saddened to hear people saying they need to
reinvent the whole dome thing from scratch every time.  Have you
seen 'Bucky Works' by J. Baldwin -- keeps selling out, now in
paperback from John Wiley & Sons.  We're so close to having the
mass production thing going, and without the stress on the forest
products industry.  I'm almost tempted to tell the dome dreamers
to wait for next year's models -- but given my JavaDome has
consistently failed to materialize at the local science museum
(not for lack of trying on my part), I can only speculate as to
when hard working Americans will get something better for their
money than they're being offered today.

See: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bworks.html for more
'Brainstorming on BuckyWorks'

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:29:35 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Beth Reid <MAMATURTL1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)

I've received e-mail about my post on our dome plans for next year. Some are
saying I should support the mass production idea and buy a kit. Others are
wondering why we are after a dome when we want so many bedrooms (6-8bdrms).
Is that many bedrooms not realistic with a dome? What gives guys???

  We could go with the dorm theory and just house boys and girls in two big
rooms. Are most domes open aired, meaning you can see to the top? We weren't
seeking that at all. We are after the dome space saving idea, and the
environmental savings in materials, as well as the general shape blending
well into the surroundings.

  Okay, obviously, I am missing some major point about dome houses. Someone
want to fill us in here? Are they not meant for big families or only supposed
to be wide open and spacious??? HELP!!!!!!!!!

Feeling totally confused here,
Beth
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:08:45 GMT
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From:         "Brian M. Scott" <scott@MATH.CSUOHIO.EDU>
Organization: Cleveland State University
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET

On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:52:15 GMT, pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
wrote:

[snip]

>As to college kids, the case is even clearer:  here's some
>vital curriculum content you should be getting for your
>money, but it's being kept under wraps, because, again,
>it's easier to put off until tomorrow what is difficult
>to think about today (hence two decades have gone by and
>still most kids know practically nothing about synergetic
>geometry).

There are important things missing from many curricula, but
'synergetic geometry' is well down the list.  'Vital' is a ludicrous
overstatement.

Brian M. Scott
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 05:22:45 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
Mime-Version: 1.0
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pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote:

>PS:  May 17, 1998 is shaping up to be the action date
>-- around the time of a new series on Mathematics appears
>on PBS (April).  Public interest the "the M word" should
>be peaking around then.  Also interest in what design
>science could mean for their future (positive) but why
>it hasn't meant much of anything until now (negative).
>

May 17 is a Sunday.  Duh.

Had a meeting with some professional activists tonight
about all this -- a brainstorming session, to see if
they might be interested.  Someone suggested we consult
a calendar.  Shows you that a retired high school math
teacher can really learn a thing or two from people
with more skills in the organizing department.

It was also suggested I do more by email vs. newsgroups
and get to work with supportive persons and institutions
around doing web pages around the planned action, perhaps
drawing from a shared pool of iconography -- kind of like
the blue ribbon freedom of speech campaign. All good ideas.
I'll get to work on implementing them.

Thanks for the emails folks and I'll be letting those
of you with proactive web pages know more about the precise
date once we finish coordinating that aspect.  Probably
in the spring, timed to coincide with the new PBS math
show -- public interest in "the M word" should be peaking
around then.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 08:19:56 +0200
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From:         Ingrid Voigt <voigt@INSTMATH.RWTH-AACHEN.DE>
Organization: Institut fuer Mathematik, RWTH Aachen, Germany
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Brian M. Scott wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:52:15 GMT, pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >As to college kids, the case is even clearer:  here's some
> >vital curriculum content you should be getting for your
> >money, but it's being kept under wraps, because, again,
> >it's easier to put off until tomorrow what is difficult
> >to think about today (hence two decades have gone by and
> >still most kids know practically nothing about synergetic
> >geometry).
>
> There are important things missing from many curricula, but
> 'synergetic geometry' is well down the list.  'Vital' is a ludicrous
> overstatement.
>
> Brian M. Scott

Would you mind explaining what "synergetic geometry" is?
I have gone through a full university course and never heard
about it, so I'd think it cannot be *that* vital.

Ingrid
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:47:31 GMT
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Brian M. Scott" <scott@MATH.CSUOHIO.EDU>
Organization: Cleveland State University
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET

On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 08:19:56 +0200, Ingrid Voigt
<voigt@instmath.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

[snip]

>Would you mind explaining what "synergetic geometry" is?
>I have gone through a full university course and never heard
>about it, so I'd think it cannot be *that* vital.

You should probably ask Kirby, but you could take a look at his web
site, specifically <http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html>.  It
derives from ideas of Buckminster Fuller.  A few people seem to have
decided that it's the One True Geometry and that they must wage
ideological war on traditional school geometry.  I can't see the
point; so far as I can tell, it's just an interesting sort of
combinatorial solid geometry.

Brian M. Scott
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:09:31 GMT
Reply-To:     rosentha@hao.SNIPME.ucar.edu
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Colin Rosenthal <rosentha@ASP.HAO.UCAR.EDU>
Organization: High Altitude Observatory/NCAR, Boulder CO
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: SCIMATH@SUPERPRISM.NET

On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 05:22:45 GMT,
Kirby Urner <pdx4d@teleport.com> wrote:
>pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote:
>
>>PS:  May 17, 1998 is shaping up to be the action date
>>-- around the time of a new series on Mathematics appears
>>on PBS (April).  Public interest the "the M word" should
>>be peaking around then.  Also interest in what design
>>science could mean for their future (positive) but why
>>it hasn't meant much of anything until now (negative).
>>
>
>May 17 is a Sunday.  Duh.

For some reason this recalls to mind the story of the headmaster
who announced at assembly that, in tribute to England's greatest
genius, the whole school would be given a holiday for Isaac Newton's
birthday.

--
Colin Rosenthal
High Altitude Observatory
Boulder, Colorado
rosentha@hao.ucar.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 14:31:45 -0700
Reply-To:     oregon@ordata.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@ORDATA.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc.
Subject:      Re: Lots of Bedrooms (was: National Walk Out of Math Class Day
              (date unspecified))
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Beth,

I don't know why you are getting questions about the number of bedrooms
you need.  It is not a problem to do so, we have a number of plans that
give you plenty of space to put in 6+ bedrooms.  I have several plans
with six bedrooms distributed in the main and loft floors, if you add a
basement, there is plenty of room for more.

There is no real reason why you would have to go to "dorm rooms."  If
that doesn't fit your families lifestyle, why do it?  If someone is
telling you that you can't fit, tell them to sharpen their pencils and
make room or go somewhere else.

Beth Reid wrote:
>
> I've received e-mail about my post on our dome plans for next year. Some are
> saying I should support the mass production idea and buy a kit. Others are
> wondering why we are after a dome when we want so many bedrooms (6-8bdrms).
> Is that many bedrooms not realistic with a dome? What gives guys???
>
>   We could go with the dorm theory and just house boys and girls in two big
> rooms. Are most domes open aired, meaning you can see to the top? We weren't
> seeking that at all. We are after the dome space saving idea, and the
> environmental savings in materials, as well as the general shape blending
> well into the surroundings.
>
>   Okay, obviously, I am missing some major point about dome houses. Someone
> want to fill us in here? Are they not meant for big families or only supposed
> to be wide open and spacious??? HELP!!!!!!!!!
>
> Feeling totally confused here,
> Beth

--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:39:10 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unsp
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@OSICOM.NET> wrote:

>So ... what needs doing now?
>

More planning for a national walkout.  That's my angle of approach.
Had a meeting with professional organizers last night, including youth.
Some of them took materials with them to share with their teachers
-- many of whom I expect to recruit.

If people want to scurry around and try to print up a text book,
that's fine.  In the meantime, we have the web, and talented teachers
willing to provide the information, including via television if invited
to do so -- J. Baldwin for example, or Amy.

New text books may not be the answer.  Certainly, after 20 years of
waiting, I'm not about to sit around twiddling my thumbs urging that
text book publishers get their act together.  I've already tried
that approach -- didn't work.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:46:04 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Beth Reid <MAMATURTL1@AOL.COM> wrote:

>I've received e-mail about my post on our dome plans for next year. Some are
>saying I should support the mass production idea and buy a kit.

I don't consider "buying a kit" equivalent to the mass production idea.
Do we "buy a kit" when we want a car, a mobile home, a computer?  Maybe
a few do (John Denver bought kit airplanes), but the mass production
idea is not about "kits".

>wondering why we are after a dome when we want so many bedrooms (6-8bdrms).
>Is that many bedrooms not realistic with a dome? What gives guys???
>

I like J. Baldwin's idea of not fixing the floorplan in stone.  Basically,
you've got your shell (plenty big) -- what's inside is theater (stage props).

>  Okay, obviously, I am missing some major point about dome houses. Someone
>want to fill us in here? Are they not meant for big families or only supposed
>to be wide open and spacious??? HELP!!!!!!!!!
>
>Feeling totally confused here,

If I were doing this, I might spin off the older kids to their own smaller
dome dormer.  I'd also likely want to involve some other families and have
some areas (volumes) in common.  The catalog would have modules suited to
all these purposes and more.  We're not there yet, because all our best
imaginations are still fired up to do war toys ad nauseum.  We'd have had
all of this stuff years ago were it not for cowardly, spineless "leaders"
and academicians with bat guano for brains (lots of glaring exceptions
of course, and I salute President Reagan for the Medal of Freedom thing
-- was of his more overtly brilliant moves).

Again, see http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bworks.html for more brain-
storming about Bucky Works. Some people at 'Wired' liked that one a lot,
not to mention MIT.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:07:07 -0400
Reply-To:     garym@sympatico.ca
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@OSICOM.NET>
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unsp
In-Reply-To:  <TCPSMTP.17.10.23.-14.59.0.2781597121.1602569@bbs.sos.on.ca>
              (geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106)
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>>>>> "ku" == Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> writes:

    ku> Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@OSICOM.NET> wrote:

    >> So ... what needs doing now?

    ku> New text books may not be the answer.  Certainly, after 20
    ku> years of waiting, I'm not about to sit around twiddling my
    ku> thumbs urging that text book publishers get their act
    ku> together.  I've already tried that approach -- didn't work.

If you want a job done right, you must do it yourself.

Even to start with a syllabus for Synergetics.  If we try to offer
it as a plaything, I don't think it will go very far, but if we can
demonstrate the same end-results in less complex and abstract methods,
and I think we largely can, then we have the makings of a complete
syllabus.

What should the walk-out accomplish?  Media coverage?  Even Pete Seeger
eventually gave up marching.


Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@sympatico.ca> -- http://www.sos.on.ca/~garym/
TeleDynamics http://visitweb.com/teledynamics/ RR#1 Sauble Beach, Ont CAN
telecenter design  --  telework systems  --  intranet/extranet consulting
"You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." ----- Miles Davis
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Oct 1996 21:02:01 PDT
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From:         prkosuth <prkosuth@MYCHOICE.NET>
Subject:      Re: National Walk Out of Math Class Day (date unspecified)
Comments: To: GEODESIC@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
In-Reply-To:  <344ea33f.11181104@news.csuohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >As to college kids, the case is even clearer:  here's some
> >vital curriculum content you should be getting for your
> >money, but it's being kept under wraps, because, again,
> >it's easier to put off until tomorrow what is difficult
> >to think about today (hence two decades have gone by and
> >still most kids know practically nothing about synergetic
> >geometry).


I think that ANY walking out of potential leearning situations is foolish
and to encourage this behavior is pretty questionable. Synergetic geometry
is cool and useful, Fuller is cool and useful; so is a whole lot of other
stuff in the present curriculum as it stands. There are also alot of things
that need to be chucked. But to "walk out" is to ignore and thumb your nose
rather than role up your sleves and participate. Parents , students and
teachers alike.

Frankly some of this "discussion" is more just position statements and
posturing rather than working a dialogue and gaining some consensus. It
sounds like some bible thumpers or people raising there little red books or
listening to crroks from jail. Fuller and synergetics are better than this
"discussion" is indicating.


Paul

prkosuth@mychoice.net
OPINIONS ARE MY  OWN
Brehm Preparatory School
Carbondale IL
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:35:25 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Design Science and Domes
Mime-Version: 1.0
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pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote:

>I don't consider "buying a kit" equivalent to the mass production idea.
>Do we "buy a kit" when we want a car, a mobile home, a computer?  Maybe
>a few do (John Denver bought kit airplanes), but the mass production
>idea is not about "kits".
>

Note that I have nothing against kits in principle, nor do I think
kits inappropriate, even for some larger scale structures.  I've
listed many kit dome sources over time -- just added a new one
today in fact (see:  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeman.html).

That being said, I want people to realize the scope of the original
vision around an automated dwelling utility world class service
industry, so that public debate is not entirely side-tracked into
hobbiest or garage-based shop talk, however fascinating that may
be to a lot of us.

The situation is akin to the one faced by would-be computer users
not so long ago:  access was limited to hard core hobbiests and
those with very specific backgrounds and talents, while others
waited on the sidelines, interested, but not willing to dive in
to such a prototypical setting.  Then Apple came along and changed
the look and feel considerably for the better, and a whole saga
unfolded, with IBM finally sparking the generic migration of
business customers into this new market, at which point enough
money got invested to really make the technology skyrocket (and
the competition to outperform), giving us the more mature
software and hardware industry we know today (still showing
every promise of continuing a steep climb).

The kit makers and dome enthusiasts today are pioneers, heros,
trailblazers.  I salute their efforts and recognize many share
my vision of a more mature industry, just as the early hackers
burned the midnight oil dreaming of sprawling empires such as
Microsoft's, or high end, state of the art platforms likes Suns
and SGIs, and the NeXT black cube.  We don't look back at these
early dreamers and deride their achievements, any more than we
thumb our noses at Boole, Babbage, or Ada.  Bucky himself lived
to see his early prototypes outperformed, comparing the Epcot
BuckyBall to a Boeing 747, next to his own Wright Brothers
effort. But do we look down on the Wright Brothers?

The champions of next generation dwelling machine technology
will come from many walks of life, with names bespeaking many
cultural backgrounds.  The Russians have paid close attention
to design science for years, are not slackers when it comes to
technology, we already know. The Japanese have likewise
produced some indigenous designs, with more to come.  The idea
that a machined approach to design means loss of cultural
identity in some monocultural look and feel is a narrow and
short-sighted one.

Aesthetics, a sense proportion, beauty, travels across the
threshold between a handicraft and an industrial design. The
different cultures and traditions will make their mark in the
future, as they have in the past, and the opportunities to
achieve new and pleasing blends, with endless varieties and
permutations available, will keep us from ever writing the
last word when it comes to the shape of our thinking and
the designs for better living it projects.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 24 Oct 1997 07:55:07 -0500
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From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Organization: WebTV Subscriber
Subject:      Re: Design Science and Domes
Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Kirby,
Very well spoken.  I look forward to the day when a dome can be
purchased, with the same level of finish, technology and accessories
(and for about the same price) as an automobile.

-Tony

--------------------------------------
_\V/   -Live Long & Prosper .
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:33:52 -0700
Reply-To:     oregon@ordata.com
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@ORDATA.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc.
Subject:      Dome Raising
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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To all:

We are doing a dome raising up in Colorado between Laramie, WY and Fort
Collins, CO.  Weather permitting, it is scheduled for 9:00 am, November
1.

It is going to be a 32' 5/8 sphere dome.  The owner would be happy to
have folks come out to watch or help.  You are not obligated to listen
to a sales pitch, although the owner is quite excited about her home.
If you do come out and help, there is free lunch in it for you.  You are
also not obligated to stay the whole time.

If you want to attend, contact Nathan Burke at Oregon Dome by email at
oregon@domes.com or by phone at (800) 572-8943.  We'll get instructions
out to you right away.
--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:44:59 -0400
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From:         Beth Reid <MAMATURTL1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Design Science and Domes

In a message dated 97-10-24 13:34:47 EDT, you write:

<< That being said, I want people to realize the scope of the original
 vision around an automated dwelling utility world class service
 industry, so that public debate is not entirely side-tracked into
 hobbiest or garage-based shop talk, however fascinating that may
 be to a lot of us. >>

I apologize for side-tracking the general discussion to privately built
*hobbyist* dome construction. I wasn't aware of the general topic of this
discussion board when I originally posted. Please forgive my intrusion into
an off-based issue. I'll take my questions to a more appropriate discussion
board so that you all can go on with your *Bucky Talk*.

Sincerely,
Beth Reid
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:37:26 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Memo to the Army (Not!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I probably won't publish a memo to the Joint Chief of the Army
about my idea for a bumper sticker reading:

     I Brake for Tetrahedra

With 'Synergetics 626.01' in smaller print underneath.

The idea would be to slap some of these on a few tanks (do
tanks have 'bumpers'?), maybe next to the 'Being All I Can Be'
stickers.

Of course the Army would argue it's not to be politicized by
any stupid theater action involving the schools, but I'd
counter we're just boosting morale and stating brute facts --
also encouraging troops to crack the cover of what's being read
in war colleges more and more.

But although morale boosting is great, sometimes distinguishing
between physical and metaphysical is difficult, especially when
the stakes are high, and in the middle of a fray.

Like, I don't want any rogue tank battalions taking my Princeton
maneuver too literally -- I proposed a tank-dramatized campus
shut down in one memo, many years ago, since web-published and
in spirit akin to the tamer, more 90s-style walkout maneuver
actually in the works.[1]

Although I think Princeton kids would appreciate the high drama
and discuss it intelligently for years to come, I know that
tanks create a lot of inadvertent property damage wherever they
go, even when the drivers are doing their best to be careful.

That might mean another tuition hike and parents and students
are already groaning under Princeton's heavy toll.

Kirby

[1] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/docs/usmarine.html

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:52:53 -0400
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From:         Mike Markowski <markowsk@EECIS.UDEL.EDU>
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Subject:      Re: Memo to the Army (Not!)

In article <3450c07a.126913799@news.teleport.com>,
Kirby Urner <pdx4d@teleport.com> wrote:
>
>
>I probably won't publish a memo to the Joint Chief of the Army
>about my idea for a bumper sticker reading:
>
>     I Brake for Tetrahedra
>
>With 'Synergetics 626.01' in smaller print underneath.

Ok, maybe this is one of my denser moments...  But I'm not
quite getting the connection between tanks & tetrahedra,
and how this would boost morale.

>(do tanks have 'bumpers'?)

Great big, shiny chrome ones.  Well, no, actually they don't
have bumpers.  But there's plenty of room for "armor stickers."

>...also encouraging troops to crack the cover of what's being read
>in war colleges more and more.

You mean Fuller is being read in war colleges now?

>That might mean another tuition hike and parents and students
>are already groaning under Princeton's heavy toll.

Plus, I expect the last kind of PR the army wants is to
seemingly boast about how easily it could shut down one of the
bastions of freedom.

Mike
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Oct 1997 04:53:24 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Design Science and Domes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Beth Reid <MAMATURTL1@AOL.COM> wrote:

>I apologize for side-tracking the general discussion to privately built
>*hobbyist* dome construction. I wasn't aware of the general topic of this
>discussion board when I originally posted. Please forgive my intrusion into
>an off-based issue. I'll take my questions to a more appropriate discussion
>board so that you all can go on with your *Bucky Talk*.
>
>Sincerely,
>Beth Reid

There is no general topic and your thread was a continuation of
one with a long history GEODESIC.  You came to the right place.

On the other hand, this is also a message board used by people
with different ongoing conversations and concerns.  I've been
following these conversations for years and my post was just
another in a great many along similar lines.

Your paragraph above comes across as petulant and huffy.  I had
originally thought you a more mature participant.  If you find
another message board willing to put up with your attitude, I'll
personally consider that a blessing.

Kirby

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:34:44 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Organization: WebTV Subscriber
Subject:      BUCK U and T's
Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Beth,
I have had a Bucky inspired tee shirt in mind for a while. It has the
Yin-Yang symbol on it  and a caption " Fundemental Complementarity -
Unity Is Plural and At Minimum Two".  Could you make something like
this. I could send you a bitmap or other graphic file if you could use
it. Maybe you could sell Bucky relevent tees to "Geodesic" subscribers.
Maybe a good Bucky photo.
What do ya think ?

-Tony

--------------------------------------
_\V/   -Live Long & Prosper .
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Oct 1997 17:13:32 -0500
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From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Subject:      Fwd: Re: BUCK U and T's
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Cliff Nelon had a very astute point about the Yin-Yang symbol and it's
relevance to the concept of Fundemental Complimentarity. I hope I am not
out of line by forwarding it to the list.

-Tony

--------------------------------------
_\V/   -Live Long & Prosper .

--WebTV-Mail-1593734415-2374
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Date: 24 Oct 97 22:59:47 -0800
Subject: Re: BUCK U and T's
From: "Clifford J. Nelson" <nelsoncj@gte.net>
To: "anthony kalenak" <amkalenak@webtv.net>
X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
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>Beth,
>I have had a Bucky inspired tee shirt in mind for a while. It has the
>Yin-Yang symbol on it  and a caption " Fundemental Complementarity -
>Unity Is Plural and At Minimum Two".  Could you make something like
>this. I could send you a bitmap or other graphic file if you could use
>it. Maybe you could sell Bucky relevent tees to "Geodesic" subscribers.
>Maybe a good Bucky photo.
>What do ya think ?
>
>-Tony
>
>--------------------------------------
>_\V/   -Live Long & Prosper .
>
Fundemental Complementarity : Complimentarity is not a mirror image. That
discovery won the Nobel prize in 1952. The tetrahedron and the octahedron
are complimentary to fill allspace. The Yin-Yang symbol is the wrong idea.

Cliff Nelson




--WebTV-Mail-1593734415-2374--
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Date:         Sat, 25 Oct 1997 17:21:58 -0500
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From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Subject:      Fwd: Re: BUCK U and T's
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Pardon this last submission, but I would like to get the lists reation
to this thread (if there is any).

Now that I'm on the mailing list, I won't forward my mail any more.

-Tony

--------------------------------------
_\V/   -Live Long & Prosper .

--WebTV-Mail-1601249783-4990
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From: amkalenak@webtv.net (anthony kalenak)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 06:29:52 -0500
To: nelsoncj@gte.net (Clifford J. Nelson)
Subject: Re: BUCK U and T's
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

Good point...
I suggested the Yin-yang symbol because it shows the whole as consisting
of two complimentary parts, not neccessarily because of the mirror image
quality. Maybe it is time to update the symbol.

-Tony

--------------------------------------
_\V/   -Live Long & Prosper .

--WebTV-Mail-1601249783-4990--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Oct 1997 21:38:33 -0400
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Beth Reid <MAMATURTL1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Design Science and Domes

In a message dated 97-10-25 16:06:16 EDT, you write:

<< Your paragraph above comes across as petulant and huffy.  I had
 originally thought you a more mature participant.  If you find
 another message board willing to put up with your attitude, I'll
 personally consider that a blessing.

 Kirby >>

I again apologize to everyone. It was not my intention to be either petulent
OR huffy. When I originally subscribed to this list, I thought the main topic
was about dome housing and Buckminster's ideas surrounding them. I have been
searching for some people to bounce our plans off of.

I also did not realize that the dome topic had been gone through pretty
thoroughly just recently. I NOW know the topic of this list much better and
would like to stick around. I am finding the different discussions very
interesting. Thanks to the mentions of various web sites that talk about
Fuller ideas, I am slowly absorbing info and would like to be involved in the
continous discussions.

Beth Reid
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Oct 1997 00:22:04 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         David Culberson <StarCon101@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Design Science and Domes

Beth,

Your input to this list has sparked some important discussion
for those of us who intend to live in geodesic domes. There's
no need to apologize for anything IMO. If only more people would
decide to invest in domes, it would be a much more interesting
world. Please stay and keep asking questions. Dome building
technology should be shared with those who are interested.

David Culberson

In a message dated 97-10-25 21:39:20 EDT, you write:

<<
 I again apologize to everyone. It was not my intention to be either petulent
 OR huffy. When I originally subscribed to this list, I thought the main
topic
 was about dome housing and Buckminster's ideas surrounding them. I have been
 searching for some people to bounce our plans off of.

 I also did not realize that the dome topic had been gone through pretty
 thoroughly just recently. I NOW know the topic of this list much better and
 would like to stick around. I am finding the different discussions very
 interesting. Thanks to the mentions of various web sites that talk about
 Fuller ideas, I am slowly absorbing info and would like to be involved in
the
 continous discussions.

 Beth Reid

  >>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:50:12 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Memo to the Army (Not!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

markowsk@eecis.udel.edu (Mike Markowski) wrote:

>>
>>With 'Synergetics 626.01' in smaller print underneath.
>
>Ok, maybe this is one of my denser moments...  But I'm not
>quite getting the connection between tanks & tetrahedra,
>and how this would boost morale.
>

You have to look it up silly.  Synergetics is on-line
now too, so don't tell me you don't have the books (irrelevant)
-- which is a real morale booster if you ask me 'n my buddies.

>>(do tanks have 'bumpers'?)
>
>Great big, shiny chrome ones.  Well, no, actually they don't
>have bumpers.  But there's plenty of room for "armor stickers."
>

That's what I figured.

>>...also encouraging troops to crack the cover of what's being read
>>in war colleges more and more.
>
>You mean Fuller is being read in war colleges now?
>

Duh.  Nothing new actually.  Check ANY #17 (Architecture New York)
for more on Fuller's longstanding links into the military
establishment.

>>That might mean another tuition hike and parents and students
>>are already groaning under Princeton's heavy toll.
>
>Plus, I expect the last kind of PR the army wants is to
>seemingly boast about how easily it could shut down one of the
>bastions of freedom.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Aw shucks.
<< blush >>

Kirby
Class of 1980

PS:  this non-memo to the Army is at my website at:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/docs/tygertank.html
with a hotlink to the relevant passage in Synergetics,
in case you want to learn more about the operational
aspects of tetrahedra.

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:54:38 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Memo to US Dept of Education
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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[moderator's note: this post was incorrectly routed to
my submission mailbox, hence the delay in posting}


                      MEMORANDUM
                   October 23, 1997

TO: Richard W. Riley, US Secretary of Education
FR: Kirby Urner, 4D Solutions
RE: Pro-mathematics action, requesting your
    Department's support


Dear Sir --

I have just been browsing your letter of October 20, 1997, in
the context of a white paper on the importance of taking
rigorous courses in mathematics if hoping to pass through the
gateway to greater freedoms and opportunities.[1][2]

As a curriculum writer in Oregon state with a longstanding
interest in mathematics (I've taught at the high school level,
and served as a contributing editor for McGraw-Hill), I want to
call your attention to our national campaign to overcome
student apathy and distaste around this important subject.

I don't know if you have, or had a teenager (my step-teen is a
college freshman this year), but you probably know in any case
that part of what it means to be young is to question
authority, to ask oneself whether the adults really have it all
together, or are just pretending at some level, given how
messed up the world really seems to be.

In order to focus this natural and healthy rebelliousness into
positive channels, various school activities come into play
(e.g. football), short of outright disciplinary action or
expulsion, which of course we strive to avoid.

The school activity I'm brainstorming, with assistance from
some professional organizers more skilled in these matters than
I, is a "National Walk Out of Math Class Day" (we might come up
with a better name for it soon).  Web pages should be popping
up before too long whereon various businesses and other
organizations, as well as individuals, register their support
and encouragement for this highly choreographed display of
civil disobedience, aimed at drawing attention to the neglected
and sorry state of our current USA mathematics curriculum.

The purpose of this memo is to request the official support of
the US Department of Education for our action -- a USA Medal of
Freedom went to the chief mathematical genius in our midst and
although he has since passed away, we still think our nation
should keep his service, e.g. his contributions to mathematics,
in mind.[3] The Department of Education is ideally positioned
to prepare our citizens for life 'Beyond Flatland' i.e. for a
newly remodeled and highly accessible gateway into the domain
of spatial geometry, complete with interesting new thinking in
algebra.[4]

We could couple this campaign to some press concerning the long
and venerable history of civil disobedience in achieving
positive gains for Americans in all walks of life, from the
civil rights movement to labor relations -- I'm sure I don't
need to tell you about these gains, but many of the younger set
have no direct experience with social change work.  Here, in
the Mathematics Department, we have a chance to turn this
around.

I have recently sent a memo to Ivars Peterson, a respected
author and mathematics teacher, and frequent contributor to the
Mathematics Association of America website, about perhaps
securing MAA support for our campaign.[5]  That would leave the
NCMT as a key organization from which we'd like to attract
support.  I wrote the NCMT a memo in February about the math
curriculum upgrades we're seeking to implement by 1999 and
trust a lot of NCMT folks are already on board, at least in
spirit.[6]

Thank you for giving this matter your attention.  Along the
lines of the highly successful 'Blue Ribbon' freedom of speech
campaign, we plan to make signature iconography available from
a central repository, for copying and displaying on web pages
registering support for this action.  If you or some webmaster
in your office would like the URL for this repository once it
exists, with an eye towards joining us in support of improving
the mathematics curriculum in the USA, please send an email or
snailmail to my address below.[7]

Again, thanks for all your hard work.  I feel we're turning
the corner on making Mathematics once again the exciting and
interesting subject we all know it could be.

Sincerely,
Kirby Urner

PS:  I'm archiving this memo to you at my website so that we
have a clear record of support requests in connection with this
campaign. I want kids to know that we're into seriously
networking with all the relevant agencies, both governmental
and NGOs.  The action itself is planned for next spring.[8]

[1] http://www.ed.gov/pubs/math/part1.html
[2] "Mathematics Equals Opportunity"
    White Paper prepared for
    U.S. Secretary of Education Richard W.Riley
    October 20, 1997, http://www.ed.gov/pubs/math/
[3] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/synhome.html
[4] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quadrays.html
[5] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ipmemo.html
[6] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ncmtmemo.html
[7] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
[8] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/usdepted.html

----------------------------------------------------
Kirby Urner  "ALL realities are 'virtual'" -- KU
Email: pdx4d@teleport.com
Web:   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/


----------------------------
message approved for posting by k12.ed.math moderator:Sheila King
k12.ed.math is a moderated newsgroup.
charter for the newsgroup at www.wenet.net/~cking/sheila/charter.html
submissions: post to k12.ed.math or e-mail to k12math@sd28.bc.ca
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Oct 1997 01:41:47 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Fwd: Re: BUCK U and T's
Mime-Version: 1.0
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anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET> wrote:

>Cliff Nelon had a very astute point about the Yin-Yang symbol and it's
>relevance to the concept of Fundemental Complimentarity. I hope I am not
>out of line by forwarding it to the list.
>
>-Tony
>
>--------------------------------------
>_\V/   -Live Long & Prosper .

The yin-yang symbol appears explicitly in Synergetics and doing a
T-shirt making a link to complementarity is not a dumb idea.

Personally, I've never been impressed by Cliff Nelson's under-
standing of synergetics (maybe in part because he's gone out of
his way to make insulting remarks vis-a-vis my e-list,
Synergetics-L)[1].  Actually, Cliff and I have a longstanding
and rather technical disagreement on Bucky's concept of
"dimension".[2]

I say do the yin-yang T-shirt (after scanning Synergetics for
every mention and depiction thereof).

Thanks for your diplomatic reply and intent to stick around,
Beth.

Kirby

===========

[1]

Date: 5 Aug 97 06:05:56 -0800
Subject: Synergetcs coordinates Mma notebook
From: "Clifford J. Nelson" <nelsoncj@gte.net>
X-To: "Kirby Urner" <pdx4d@teleport.com>
X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0

Kirby,

The enclosed Mathematica notebook can be read by downloading the free
MathReader 3.0 from www.wolfram.com. I urge you to study it before
spreading anymore disinformation about Synergetics coordinates. If you do,
then you will see that you've had it all wrong.

You guys on Syn-L have been what Bucky called squares and blockheads, using
fcc and XYZ until now.

<<SNIP>>

[2] http://forum.swarthmore.edu/epigone/geometry-research/pandblalsin
    for the gist of our debate.

---------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner   www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions     www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:40:27 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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Comments:     Authenticated sender is <argeob@mail.wamani.apc.org>
From:         Claudio Ardohain <argeob@WAMANI.WAMANI.APC.ORG>
Subject:      Congress of Symmetry
MIME-Version: 1.0
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__________________________________________________________
               INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR THE
            INTERDISCIPLINARY STUDY OF SYMMETRY
                      (ISIS-SYMMETRY)
President:  Denes   Nagy,  Institute   of  Applied  Physics,
University of Tsukuba, Tsukuba Science City 305, Japan
Chairman of  the Advisory  Board: Arthur  L. Loeb, Carpenter
Center for  the Visual  Arts, Harvard University, Cambridge,
MA 02138, USA
Honorary  Presidents:   Konstantin  Frolov,   Institute   of
Mechanical Engineering,  Russian  Academy  of  Sciences,  ul
Griboedova 4,  101830 Moscow, Russia. Yuval Neeman, Mortimer
and Raymond  Sackler Institute of Advanced Studies, Tel-Aviv
University, Ramat-Aviv, Tel-Aviv 69978, Israel
Secretary General:  Gyorgy Darvas,  Symmetrion, Budapest, PO
Box 994, H-1245 Hungary; Institute for Research Organization
of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences
__________________________________________________________

      THE FOURTH INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS AND EXHIBITION
                      OF ISIS-SYMMETRY
                     to be held at the
      TECHNION I.I.T. - ISRAEL INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
                HAIFA 13 - 19 SEPTEMBER 1998

                      ORDER / DISORDER
           ORGANIZATION AND HIERARCHY IN SCIENCE,
        TECHNOLOGY, ART, DESIGN, AND THE HUMANITIES

     History & Context: The previous Congress and Exhibition
of ISIS-Symmetry `Symmetry: Natural and Artificial' was held
in Washington DC, 14-20 August 1995. It was the third in the
series of  the triennial  congresses organized and conducted
by the International Society for the Interdisciplinary Study
of  Symmetry   (ISIS-Symmetry),  following   the  first   in
Budapest, 1989,  and the 2nd in Hiroshima, 1992. Hundreds of
scientists, researchers,  artists, designers, engineers, and
practitioners from  a variety  of areas  participated, among
them  leading   figures  in   their  fields.   The   fertile
interaction which  developed among the participants of these
events is already evident.
     Scope: The Fourth ISIS-Symmetry Congress and Exhibition
will take  place in  Israel, in  September 1998. The central
topic of  the conference  will be  ORDER /  DISORDER with an
emphasis on the phenomenon of morphological ORGANIZATION and
HIERARCHY.  It  is  intended  to  continue  the  decade-long
activity and dialogue between those concerned and interested
in the subjects of symmetry and order.
     "Symmetry", a  concept coined  by the  Greeks more than
two millenia  ago, has  since  accompanied  all  aspects  of
geometric  and   mathematical  thought.  It  is  central  in
classical arts  and art-related theory. Symmetry established
and forced  itself on  the thought and philosophy of western
science, to  proclaim its  modern era.  It was  exhaustively
researched  and   defined  in   the  previous   century  (in
mathematics and  crystallography), following the recognition
of the  central role of the concept of structure, along with
its spatial connotations and nature.
     "We came  to realize that we can perceive anything only
when we  perceive its  structure and  we think by structural
analogy and  comparison... The  mystery  that  remains  lies
largely in  the nature of structural hierarchy for the human
mind  can   examine  nature   on   many   different   scales
sequentially but  not simultaneously."  (C. S. Smith, passed
away Honorary Member of ISIS-Symmetry)
     Order /  Disorder is  a  fascinating  interdisciplinary
super-concept. Its  research has accelerated in the last few
decades: Fractals  and chaos  theory, which  until  recently
considered  outside   of  any  specific  discipline,  became
legitimate  research   topics.  Complex  phenomena  -whether
cosmological  or  subatomic  structures,  cities  and  human
societies or diverse delicate ecosystems- are now considered
and treated  within  analogical,  philosophical  frameworks.
These are  developed around general insights into the nature
and morphology of structure, meta-structure, and their order
and hierarchies.

                 INTERDISCIPLINARY PANORAMA
  These insights bridge across interdisciplinary boarders,
 discover interconnections and common-denominators between
   phenomena and processes and create a common ground for
dialogue which the forthcoming Congress and Exhibition will
            try to encourage and to facilitate.
   ART, DESIGN, HUMANITIES, PLANNING, SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY
Anthropology,   Architecture,    Astrophysics,   Behavioural
Science, Biology, Biotechnology, Chemistry, Cinema, City and
Regional Planning,  Communication Systems, Computer Science,
Crystallography,   Dance,    Ecology,   Economic   Planning,
Education, Electronics, Engineering, Fashion Design, Gender,
Geography, Graphic Design, Hermeneutics, History, Industrial
Design,  Information   Systems,   Interdisciplinary   Design
Fields, Linguistics,  Literature, Man-Environment  Sciences,
Mathematics, Medicine, Military Planning, Music, Philosophy,
Physics,   Poetry,   Political   Sciences,   Polyaesthetics,
Psychology,  Social   Planning,   Sociology,   Stage   Arts,
Structures, Textile  Design, Transportation,  Urban  Design,
Visual Arts
____________________________________________________________

                    PRELIMINARY PROGRAM
1) Plenary session  lectures and presentations by a selected
   group of scientists, scholars and artists
*  Short paper  presentations, organized  in subject-related
   parallel sessions
*  Concluding general session and discussions
*  Colloquia and workshops on conference-related topics
2) Voluntary subject teams (time will be allocated)
3) Exhibition of original works of art
*  Exhibition of  related visual material - 2D and 3D models
   of artistic and scientific character
*  Exhibition Poster presentations and discussions
4) Social and cultural interaction and touristic events.

           CALL FOR PAPERS / EXHIBITS / WORKSHOPS
Individuals or  teams who  wish to  contribute a paper or an
exhibit  (artworks,  posters  or  models),  who  propose  to
conduct a  workshop or  a colloquium  on  conference-related
topics, or  wish to  participate in  the coming  event,  are
invited to submit:
* a preliminary  abstract of  the paper  not  exceeding  300
  words; and/or
* a preliminary exhibit description, accompanied by graphic-
  photographic information,  not exceeding  two  pages  (one
  side only); and/or
* a  suggested   workshop  or  colloquium  description,  not
  exceeding two pages (one side only).

                   ABSTRACT REQUIREMENTS
Two copies  of each  preliminary abstract (suitable to judge
the scientific/artistic  merit  of  the  proposal)  must  be
delivered before  the 31st  of January  1998 to the Congress
Secretariat  and   the  President   of  ISIS-Symmetry.   The
following information must be provided on the first sheet of
the  abstract,   exhibit  description,  or  the  workshop  /
colloquium description:
* Title of the abstract, exhibit, workshop or colloquium.
* Full name and full address (incl. e-mail) of the author.
* 5 keywords (or disciplines).
* Space demand in the exhibiton.
* "4th ISIS-Symmetry  Congress - ORDER AND DISORDER - ISRAEL
  1998" (by pencil on the top of the sheet).
* Designation  -  "Paper"  or  "Exhibit"  or  "Workshop"  or
  "Colloquium" (by pencil on the top of the sheet).

                    CONFERENCE LANGUAGE
The official language of the conference will be English. All
texts should be submitted in English.

                KEY DATES OF THE CONFERENCE
31  January   1998:  Submission  of  preliminary  abstracts,
exhibits and workshop descriptions
31 March 1998: Acceptance notification
15 May  1998: Submission  of final,  4  page,  camera  ready
Extended Abstracts
6 September  1998: Preferred  date for material inclusion in
the exhibition
13 September  1998: Registration and opening of the congress
and exhibition

REGISTRATION FEES:  ISISS members  Non-members    Students
Before 1 June 1998: US$ 200        US$ 300        US$ 100
After 1 June 1998:  US$ 250        US$ 350        US$ 100
Daily fee:          US$  60        US$  80        US$  30
Fee for accompanying persons: US$ 50
(includes reception, conference, exhibition, performances)
Banquet (optional): US$ 50

                           VENUE
The conference  will be held on the campus of the TECHNION -
ISRAEL INSTITUTE  OF TECHNOLOGY  on Mount  Carmel, in Haifa,
Israel.
Services and  accommodation  will  be  available  on  campus
during  the   congress,   in   modestly   equipped   student
dormitories, for a nominal rate of US$ 22 (in a double room)
/ US$ 29 (single).
A selection  of hotels,  to suit the budget of all delegates
will be available in the Haifa environs as well.
A choice of tours, before and after the conference, covering
historical, religious and natural sites will be arranged for
interested participants and accompanying persons.

__________________________________________________________
                        ORGANIZATION

Congress President: Dan Shechtman
Honorary President: Yuval Neeman
International  Scientific  and  Artistic  Committee  of  the
Congress and Exhibition:
The Board of ISIS-Symmetry + two invited persons:
Denes  Nagy   (President),  Arthur  Loeb  (Chairman  of  the
Advisory Board),  Konstantin  Frolov  (Honorary  President),
Yuval Neeman  (Honorary President), Gyorgy Darvas (Secretary
General),   Martha   Pardavi-Horvath   (Secretary),   Janusz
Rebielak (Secretary),  Fred Bookstein,  Siglind Bruhn, Betty
Collings, Liz  Edwards, John  Hosack, Ruslan  Kostov, Sergei
Petukhov,  Mihaly  Szoboszlai,  K.  Miyazaki  (invited),  B.
Sackler (invited)

International Advisory Board of the Congress and Exhibition
The Advisory Board of ISIS-Symmetry + two invited persons:
Arthur L.  Loeb (Chairman)  Bulain Atalay  (invited), Laszlo
Beke, Oleg  Bodnar, Giuseppe  Caglioti, Jose  Luis  Caivano,
Rene Felix,  Paulus Gerdes,  Ted Goranson,  Istvan Hargittai
(invited), Douglas  Hofstadter,  William  Huff,  Fre  Ilgen,
Slavik  Jablan,   Peter  Klein,   Vladimir  Koptsik,   Pedro
Marijuan, Koichiro  Matsuno, Kuniaki  Nagayama, Tohru Ogawa,
Emanuel  Dimas   de  Melo  Pimenta,  Caspar  Schwabe,  Jamie
Sheridan, Tibor  Tarnai, Jan  Tent, Einar  Thorsteinn, Kirti
Trivedi, Avraham Wachman, Le-Xiao Yu

Organizing Committee
Dan Shechtman  (Chair), Avraham Wachman, Michael Burt, Tzila
Shpitzer,  Zvi  Harel,  Nima  Geffen,  Yehudit  Arnon,  Ruth
Lorand,  Iris   Aravot,  Bilu  Blich,  Nir  Buras  (Congress
secretary)

Program Committee
Avraham Wachman, Michael Burt, Yuval Neeman, Dalia Cohen

Exhibition Committee
Michael Burt, Bilu Blich (Curator), Ariel Tibi, Ami Korren

                          INTERNET
Please visit us on http://www.technion.ac.il/ isis4

                      CONTACT PERSONS
Dan Shechtman (Chairman of the local Organizing Committee)
Nir Buras (Congress Secretary)
Center for  Architectural R&D,  Faculty of  Architecture and
Town Planning, Technion, I.I.T., Haifa 32000, Israel
Phone: 972 4 829 4018    Fax: 972 4 829 4617
E-mail: isis4@tx.technion.ac.il

Denes Nagy (President, ISIS-Symmetry)
Institute  of   Applied  Physics,   University  of  Tsukuba,
Tsukuba, 305 Japan
Phone: 81 298 53 6786    Fax: 81 298 53 5205
E-mail: nagy@bukko.bk.tsukuba.ac.jp

Gyorgy Darvas (Secretary General, ISIS-Symmetry)
Symmetrion - The Institute for Advanced Symmetry Studies
18 Nador St. PO Box 994 Budapest, H-1245 Hungary
Phone: 36 1 131 8326 (until 20 November)
Fax: 36 1 131 3161 (until 20 November)
331 8326 (after 20 November)  331 3161 (after 20 November)
E-mail: h492dar@ella.hu,  symmetry@mailhost.net

____________________________________________________________
 THE FOURTH INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS AND EXHIBITION OF ISIS-
                SYMMETRY - ORDER / DISORDER
    Chairman of the Organizing Committee: Dan Shechtman
     Chairman of the Program Committee: Avraham Wachman
               PRELIMINARY REGISTRATION FORM

Title ....................................................
First name ...............................................
Surname ..................................................
Affiliation...............................................
..........................................................
Mailing address ..........................................
..........................................................
..........................................................
Phone ..................... Fax ..........................
E-mail ...................................................

  I want further information on the conference
  I intend  to  submit  a  paper  /  exhibit  /  workshop  /
  colloquium with the preliminary title:
..........................................................
..........................................................
..........................................................
__________________________________________________________
Budapest, (Nador u. 18) P.O. Box 994, H-1245 Hungary
Phone: 36-1-131-8326,  Fax: 36-1-131-3161
E-mail: h492dar@ella.hu, symmetry@mailhost.net
Bank Account: International Symmetry Foundation
Hungarian Foreign Trade Bank (1821 Budapest, Szt. Istvan ter
11.) 504-00004-2100-4015
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:17:48 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Clifford J. Nelson" <nelsoncj@GTE.NET>
Organization: gte.net
Subject:      Re: BUCK U and T's
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|Fundemental Complementarity : Complimentarity is not a mirror image. That
|discovery won the Nobel prize in 1952. The tetrahedron and the octahedron
are
|complimentary to fill allspace. The Yin-Yang symbol is the wrong idea.


|Cliff Nelson

I want to correct myself. Yin-Yang is mentioned in section 506.40 - 506.43.
Bucky saw it in the stitching of a baseball, not in the plane.

Section 986.049 says that ""fundamental complementarity" was discovered in
1922 and the 1956 Nobel prize in physics showed that it is not a mirror
image.

Cliff Nelson
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:07:02 -0800
Reply-To:     oregon@ordata.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@ORDATA.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc.
Subject:      Re: Design Science and Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I didn't read this post that you are reacting to, but I'd say ignore
it.  We're not talking "hobbiest or garage-based shop talk."  We make
our money this way, building a dwelling in an automated way with world
class service in a diverse and competitive industry.  While we may not
be the Boeing wanna-be that who ever posted this wants us to be, you and
I are at least out there pursuing the vision.

Beth Reid wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-10-24 13:34:47 EDT, you write:
>
> << That being said, I want people to realize the scope of the original
>  vision around an automated dwelling utility world class service
>  industry, so that public debate is not entirely side-tracked into
>  hobbiest or garage-based shop talk, however fascinating that may
>  be to a lot of us. >>
>
> I apologize for side-tracking the general discussion to privately built
> *hobbyist* dome construction. I wasn't aware of the general topic of this
> discussion board when I originally posted. Please forgive my intrusion into
> an off-based issue. I'll take my questions to a more appropriate discussion
> board so that you all can go on with your *Bucky Talk*.
>
> Sincerely,
> Beth Reid

--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:31:32 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Vinay Gupta <WldViewLS@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hi-End Stereo and Video Equipment

In a message dated 97-10-16 02:41:25 EDT, you write:

> Now there is a place to go to find Hi-End stereo and Video equipment with
>  out leaving your office or home.

I'm looking for replacement woofers for my Boston Acoustics A-150 and A-200
loudspeakers. The foam surrounds have deteriorated. Can you help or advise?
Thanks,
david K
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:44:08 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Halloween Treat: Spooky Jitterbug
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Halloween Treat:  Spooky Jitterbug MPEG  (302 K)

Sneak preview:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/images/spookjit.gif

Download:
ftp://ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/movies/ghostjit.mpg

Description:

Povray, a public domain free download from www.povray.org (most
platforms) will do multiple frames suitable for packaging in
some movie format (e.g. AVI, MPEG).  What we have here is a
spooky castle interior, taken from a popular step-by-step
Povray tutorial, with slight modi- fications (e.g. framed
picture replaced with world map).

Struck, a public domain free download by Gerald de Jong from
www.bfi.org/~strucky/, permits animated "tensegrities" --
amalgams of push-pull members ("elastic intervals") set to
change their rest lengths over time, will generate successive
frames, in Povray format.

The resulting animation, executed by K. Urner, uses a Struck-
generated jitterbug interpolated into the tutorial interior.
A jitterbug is a geometric transformation (or "morph") tying
together some familiar wireframe shapes in a continuous,
reversible sequence.  The jitterbug floats ghostily ("ephemerally")
and shifts position while contracting and expanding (best viewed
as a continuous loop).

Kirby
4D Solutions

---------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner   www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions     www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:22:53 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Mike Markowski <markowsk@EECIS.UDEL.EDU>
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Subject:      Re: Memo to the Army (Not!)

In article <34539d97.66507845@news.teleport.com>,
Kirby Urner <pdx4d@teleport.com> wrote:
>markowsk@eecis.udel.edu (Mike Markowski) wrote:
>
>>Ok, maybe this is one of my denser moments...  But I'm not
>>quite getting the connection between tanks & tetrahedra,
>>and how this would boost morale.
>
>You have to look it up silly.

Ah, yes, well (ahem), that's just what I was going to do next.  So, for
the other somewhat dimwitted folks like me, who didn't think to do the
obvious:

   626.01  The world military forces use reinforced concrete
   tetrahedra for military tank impediments. This is because
   tetrahedra lock into available space by friction and not by
   fitting. They are used as the least disturbable barrier
   components in damming rivers temporarily shunted while
   constructing monolithic hydroelectric dams.

>>>...also encouraging troops to crack the cover of what's being read
>>>in war colleges more and more.
>...
>Check ANY #17 (Architecture New York)
>for more on Fuller's longstanding links into the military
>establishment.

It looks like there are more than the troops to worry about.  I'm an
employee at the US Army Research Laboratory, and I've never once heard
Fuller's name mentioned in my handful of years there (and have worked
with people who graduated from a variety of war colleges).  Of course,
that could also be due to my specialty more than anything else.  But as
a "for instance," there's a fairly large hemispherical bldg on the base
I work at that is supported by increased internal air pressure.  Maybe
it's appropriate for whatever they're doing there, but I've always
wondered why a geodesic structure wasn't used.  Wouldn't need air
pumps, air locks, or have to worry about ice collapsing it, etc...

Anyway, time to go browse
http://www.servtech.com/public/rwgray/synergetics/synergetics.html,
some more,

Mike
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:35:53 -0800
Reply-To:     oregon@ordata.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@ORDATA.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc.
Subject:      Re: Huffiness (was: Design Science and Domes)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I didn't think that Beth sounded huffy, just that she sounded like
someone who was a bit irate about getting cut off mid-sentance.

If people are going to come down on new people to the list for asking a
question that was recently discussed, then this list is likely to get
pretty quiet, with only the sound of an occasional newbie getting flamed
to break up the mono.  Bring on the questions, something new comes up
every time anyway.  If you are tired of a thread, delete it.  I do this
to 75% of the posts anyway.

Beth Reid wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-10-25 16:06:16 EDT, you write:
>
> << Your paragraph above comes across as petulant and huffy.  I had
>  originally thought you a more mature participant.  If you find
>  another message board willing to put up with your attitude, I'll
>  personally consider that a blessing.
>
>  Kirby >>
>
> I again apologize to everyone. It was not my intention to be either petulent
> OR huffy. When I originally subscribed to this list, I thought the main topic
> was about dome housing and Buckminster's ideas surrounding them. I have been
> searching for some people to bounce our plans off of.
>
> I also did not realize that the dome topic had been gone through pretty
> thoroughly just recently. I NOW know the topic of this list much better and
> would like to stick around. I am finding the different discussions very
> interesting. Thanks to the mentions of various web sites that talk about
> Fuller ideas, I am slowly absorbing info and would like to be involved in the
> continous discussions.
>
> Beth Reid

--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:54:18 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         ATTRACT WOMEN NOW <miker45@CRMAEN.NET>
Organization: ATTRACT WOMEN NOW
Subject:      HOW TO ATTRACT GIRLS INSTANTLY....Secrets to instant sex appeal!!

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person giving off these chemical signals. It's natures way of attracting
the opposite sex. Scientists have now isolated and synthesized two natural
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in both the British and international press. Androstenone pheromone has
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To order the " Pure Instinct Pheromone Sex Attractant" please fill out the
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(Feel free to write out the order form by hand, All funds must equal US
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OVERSEAS ORDERS WELCOME BUT MUST PAY WITH US CASH
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_________________________________________


Yes! I want to attract more women please send me _______  bottles of
PURE INSTINCT Price $29.95(U.S.) + $4.00 S/H U.S. OVERSEAS $8.00 S/H.
Please allow 1-2 WEEKS FOR DELIVERY.

I understand that if I'm not 100% delighted, simply return remainder within
30 days for a full refund.

I have enclosed check, cash or money-order for ___________ (U.S.)

Name (Please use block letters)

_______________________________________________

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Zip: __________________

E-Mail : ______________________
       Please Mail to:

SMG Enterprises
1970 E. Osceola Pkwy
Suite 242
Kissimmee Fl.34743
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:52:53 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Tripp Whitlow <whitlowt@APCI.NET>
Subject:      Re: Remove
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature";
              micalg=SHA-1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01BCE3A0.67F7D920"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BCE3A0.67F7D920
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


-----Original Message-----
From: ATTRACT WOMEN NOW <miker45@CRMAEN.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 12:35
Subject: HOW TO ATTRACT GIRLS INSTANTLY....Secrets to instant sex appeal!!


>HOW TO ATTRACT GIRLS  INSTANTLY....Secrets to instant sex appeal
>
>PURE INSTINCT PHEROMONE ATTRACTANT FOR MEN
>WILL GIVE YOU AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE WITH WOMEN
> GUARANTEED
>
>(or your money back)!
>
>Everyone knows that some men (a tiny minority) are able to instantly
attract
>women. It used to be known as "animal magnetism". Scientists now say this
>natural attraction is due to pheromones - body smells that are not
>consciously detected, but that effect the behavior of others towards the
>person giving off these chemical signals. It's natures way of attracting
>the opposite sex. Scientists have now isolated and synthesized two natural
>Attractants- androstenol and androstenone pheromone. Carefully controlled
>experiments show they work and have been widely reported on television and
>in both the British and international press. Androstenone pheromone has
>been successfully tested on BBC TV's "TOMORROWS WORLD" and by Desmond
>Morris (Author of "The Naked Ape" and "Manwatching" and renowned human
>behaviorist) on BBC TV's "Friday Night... Saturday Morning."
>
>New improved formula PURE INSTINCT from ICT Research Technology contains
>both ANDROSTENOL and ANDROSTENONE pheromone and produces and undetectable
>scent that subconsciously attracts women to the wearer. PURE INSTINCT is
the
>world's number one selling and the most concentrated (5 - 7 x normal active
>strength) pheromone spray for men - don't be misled by cheaper (or more
>expensive) imitations.
>
>
>WHAT THE PRESS SAY:
>
>  * Lowell Ponte, a former consultant on exotic weapons and a Readers
>Digest science writer, said in an interview that "use of the recently
>discovered chemical Androstenone should be banned. Congress should pass a
>law making it a crime to use this chemical to  influence voters by making
>politicians appear more lovable.
>- The San Francisco Chronicle -
>
>
>  * "The stuff attracts women like you wouldn't believe"
>- Colorado Telegraph
>
>
>  * "And now this pheromone has been marketed, we've tested it - and good
>grief it works"
>    - Koave
>
>
>  * "pheromones influence human behavior in a subtle way. Women are
>attracted to the smell"
>- The Daily Telegraph
>
>
>  * "Pure Instinct is likely to produce a state of sexual excitement or
>arousal"
>- Men Only (Vol. #44 No. 4)
>
>
>
>Much of our sales of PURE INSTINCT are reorders from existing  users,
reports
>confirm success. "PURE INSTINCT really does seem to work! The most dramatic
>instances have occurred when wearing it at discos. Girls just drift towards
>me and start flirting."
>-DT Cardiff
>
>
>"I Knew PURE INSTINCT wasn't a gimmick when one of the girls at work, quite
>out of character, started to seduce me when we were alone in the office."
>-SD Nottingham
>
>PURE INSTINCT comes in a discreet 15ml pocket roll on container with full
>instructions, Ideal for any man who wants to join that lucky few who have
>more than their fair share of sex appeal.
>
>
>30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE
>
>If you are not 100% delighted with the results from using PURE INSTINCT
simply
>return remainder within 30 days for a full refund- No questions asked!
>
>C O N F I D E N T I A L I T Y  Note:
>
>We do not sell our database to any other company,
>all of our order processing is done by our company alone, and orders
>are sent in plain, nondescript packaging. The confidentiality of our
>customers is maintained above all.
>
>
>To order the " Pure Instinct Pheromone Sex Attractant" please fill out the
>following form
>and mail it to the address below.
>(Feel free to write out the order form by hand, All funds must equal US
>dollars.
>
>OVERSEAS ORDERS WELCOME BUT MUST PAY WITH US CASH
>INTERNATIONAL MONEY ORDER OR TRAVELLERS CHECK
>_________________________________________
>
>
>Yes! I want to attract more women please send me _______  bottles of
>PURE INSTINCT Price $29.95(U.S.) + $4.00 S/H U.S. OVERSEAS $8.00 S/H.
>Please allow 1-2 WEEKS FOR DELIVERY.
>
>I understand that if I'm not 100% delighted, simply return remainder within
>30 days for a full refund.
>
>I have enclosed check, cash or money-order for ___________ (U.S.)
>
>Name (Please use block letters)
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Address: _________________________________
>
>City, St.: _________________________________
>
>Zip: __________________
>
>E-Mail : ______________________
>       Please Mail to:
>
>SMG Enterprises
>1970 E. Osceola Pkwy
>Suite 242
>Kissimmee Fl.34743
>

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Gj1WZXJpU2lnbidzIENQUyBpbmNvcnAuIGJ5IHJlZmVyZW5jZSBsaWFiLiBsdGQuIChjKTk3IFZl
cmlTaWduAAAAAAAAMBEGCWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIHgDCBhgYKYIZIAYb4RQEGAwR4FnZkNDY1MmJk
NjNmMjA0NzAyOTI5ODc2M2M5ZDJmMjc1MDY5YzczNTliZWQxYjA1OWRhNzViYzRiYzk3MDE3NDdk
YTVkM2YyMTQxYmVhZGIyYmQyZTg5MjEwYWY2OWY3ZGUxMTQ5OWNhMWIzNDVmZGYzZWE0NTE3MA0G
CSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAHaEFkwtMvWq7QikV6doMvIxcWa/vuf5jJlOywj+oD7tKRNhSTPjh4TH
6sX0qAhMGw76/9OZsu/re7rB3nd+bH17ZaTFLWShJWNXawwgrNCvgwnI+wfVQhrcrtJVgmCIDiGO
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mSb3DvsIAAAAAAAA

------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BCE3A0.67F7D920--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:17:15 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         George Stallsmith <Techedge@NOSPAMNETDIRECT.NET>
Organization: The Technological Edge
Subject:      Re: Design Science and Domes

I have been monitoring this newsgroup for 8 months almost daily.  In about 4
years I will be building a home.  I feel that most people just build a home
like everyone elses, but more efficient options are available.  Homes today
vary little from homes built a century ago.

Step one is to find out what all of your options are.  I enjoy hearing
EVERYONES opinion.  Anything is better than all of this spam. :-)

peace
David Culberson wrote in message
<971026002203_-1695366128@emout02.mail.aol.com>...
>Beth,
>
>Your input to this list has sparked some important discussion
>for those of us who intend to live in geodesic domes. There's
>no need to apologize for anything IMO. If only more people would
>decide to invest in domes, it would be a much more interesting
>world. Please stay and keep asking questions. Dome building
>technology should be shared with those who are interested.
>
>David Culberson
>
>In a message dated 97-10-25 21:39:20 EDT, you write:
>
><<
> I again apologize to everyone. It was not my intention to be either
petulent
> OR huffy. When I originally subscribed to this list, I thought the main
>topic
> was about dome housing and Buckminster's ideas surrounding them. I have
been
> searching for some people to bounce our plans off of.
>
> I also did not realize that the dome topic had been gone through pretty
> thoroughly just recently. I NOW know the topic of this list much better
and
> would like to stick around. I am finding the different discussions very
> interesting. Thanks to the mentions of various web sites that talk about
> Fuller ideas, I am slowly absorbing info and would like to be involved in
>the
> continous discussions.
>
> Beth Reid
>
>  >>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:18:50 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Memo to US Dept of Education
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Caught former Ed Secretary William Bennet on C-SPAN last night,
sorting through a lot in a hurry for the benefit of Senators
looking into the education thing.

A good performance, with lots of clues for kids in future
dialing into archives and wishing to reconstruct the political
spectrum consciousness of that day e.g. "conservatives didn't
like the word 'national' and liberals didn't like the word
'test'."

Lots of emphasis on networking with specific individuals,
cross-checking viewpoints, and having a substantive empirical
basis, founded in real world surveys, polling, and analysis
vs. mere ideology, as a basis for rational, relevant policy-
making (the world game approach).

Plus lots of glasses going on and off, which will be hilarious
to watch on fast forward.  Good teacher, that guy, even if not
certified (he mentioned being barred from specific classrooms).

Kirby

---------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner   www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions     www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:42:51 GMT
Reply-To:     box2321@teleport.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: box2321.com
Subject:      Halloween Trick: Geodesic Hooliganism

I and a friend made a geodesic half-sphere about a year ago.  We puzzled
out the size we wanted, made two 'master' triangles, then photocopied
them onto 100 or so pieces of paper.  Glued it together and sure enough,
just as always, the strength of the dome was much greater than the
strength of the paper and probably the paper in any other formation of
that size.  It was a fun model to make.

Over time, it became an omnitriangulated gatherer of dust, so we decided
to get rid of it late one night.  We stood on the peer, wondering if we
should just throw it in the Willammette River, when a voice told us
instead to leave it in front of the offices of a large architectural
firm in downtown Portland.  Which, of course, we did.

--
_________________________________________
|    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    http://www.teleport.com/
| (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |             ~box2321/go.htm
| Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |        box2321@teleport.com
-----------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:09:26 -0600
Reply-To:     ega@www.fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@WWW.FASTLANE.NET>
Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes
Subject:      Re: Halloween Trick: Geodesic Hooliganism
Comments: To: box2321@teleport.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

P. O. Box 2321 wrote:
>
>  Which, of course, we did.
>
>
--And then what Happened?

<>      <>
    ||

 (______)
    --
    \/

>Ernie Aiken
>:):):):):):):):):)---->
>Worldflower Garden Domes - "Geodesics for your landscape"
>http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/welcome.shtml
>__________________________________________
> -
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:57:35 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Halloween Trick: Geodesic Hooliganism
Comments: To: Ernie Aiken <ega@www.fastlane.net>
In-Reply-To:  <3457EC56.2A74@www.fastlane.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Ernie Aiken wrote:
> P. O. Box 2321 wrote:
> >  Which, of course, we did.
> >
> --And then what Happened?

Like all good tricks, the deed was done and we didn't stick around to see
what happened.  We planted the seed - it's up to them to pluck it out,
water it, pave over it, give it fertlizer or what have you.

On the other hand, my co-conspirator gladly accepted from their dumpster a
large amount of blueprints, which he is using to silk screen hi/lo tech
posters onto.  As he put it, "100% on the karmameter."

--
_________________________________________
|    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    http://www.teleport.com/
| (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |             ~box2321/go.htm
| Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |        box2321@teleport.com
-----------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:17:19 PST
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Peopleware Publications"@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Organization: Email PLATINUM
Subject:      REPAIR YOUR CREDIT- LEGALLY!

A good Credit File is an absolute necessity today. If you've suffered the
embarassment
and inconvenience of not having a clean credit file, you well know how
important it is to
have one.

The Federal Government has written laws that work to help YOU clean up your
Credit
File. As recently as September of 1997 new laws became effective. Laws to help
you
remove negative credit entries  from your credit file - SIMPLY, LEGALLY and
FREE!

Visit our site at:     www.avana.net/~pplware/repair_credit.htm        to learn
more about
Repairing Your Credit File.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Oct 1997 05:29:53 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "William I. Johnston" <wij@WORLD.STD.COM>
Organization: http://world.std.com/~wij/
Subject:      Re: Memo to US Dept of Education
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) writes:

>The school activity I'm brainstorming, with assistance from
>some professional organizers more skilled in these matters than
>I, is a "National Walk Out of Math Class Day"

Wouldn't a "National Walk Into Math Class Day" be a more
productive event? How does one focus attention on the poor
qualities of mathematics education by getting students to
walk away from mathematics?



--
 William I. Johnston
 Watertown, MA   USA
 mailto:wij@world.std.com
 http://world.std.com/%7Ewij/


----------------------------
message approved for posting by k12.ed.math moderator:Sheila King
k12.ed.math is a moderated newsgroup.
charter for the newsgroup at www.wenet.net/~cking/sheila/charter.html
submissions: post to k12.ed.math or e-mail to k12math@sd28.bc.ca
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:50:16 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Calculators or no calculators
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Well, it sounds nice, Kirby. I suppose if you did it with YOUNG kids,
>they would show an interest. I think by the time they get to high school
>that most of the kid wouldn't be that interested in historical items. I
>tried to show my computer science students last year some old
>motherboards and disk drives. Can't say they were that interested. Ah,
>well.
>

Yes, I was imagining younger kids.  Some older kids want to learn
about these artifacts too of course -- probably more likely to
have an interest if exposed to them earlier in their careers.

>I'd like to see us teach slide rule use again. Now there's an
>interesting piece of history.
>
>My son, in sixth grade, did learn abacus addition this year. They are
>doing a historical unit on number systems, studying Egyptian number
>systems and what-all, comparing place value and base systems. Quite
>interesting.
>

Yes, it helps to be exposed to different forms of intelligence, also
involving computation, to realize the cultural and anthropological
components informing our curriculum.

I realize it's a money issue that we're talking the pros and cons
of calculators versus computers, but in my book the 'calculator' is
an embedded aspect of computing, and math has a lot to do with
using computers, not just calculators, and not just in the higher
grades.

Although calculators are programmable, they are more difficult to
program than computers, because of the memory limitations.  Also,
those calculator graphing screens are way insufficient compared to
what you get on an adequately sized color monitor.  Again, these
are budget priority issues more than curriculum issues, as I know
few math teachers who would seriously object if high powered
computers became more easily available to their kids.

Computers are the way of the future, not calculators.

Kirby

PS:  I practice my preachings re integrating programming language
with more traditional math-style typographies at my website, e.g.
see my 'A Study in Sphere Packing' (just web-published last night)
at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/vepacking.html

---------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner   www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions     www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:55:58 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Memo to US Dept of Education
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> I have to say, in all honesty, that this is one of the worst and silliest
ideas
> I have ever come across.  Suppose it is successful:  how many students taking
> part in this militancy will have done so for any reason other than hell
> raising.  In the minds of the students who are doing this, they will have
> successfully communicated their hatred of mathematics, not some desire to
> perfect it.  I also think it is a dreadful idea for adults to in any way
> encourage civil disobediance, short of the sort of thing we faced in the
1960s
> in the South, and especially over an issue like mathematics.  I endorse the
> view that we should get our students to walk into a math class, not out of
> one.
>
> John Wenger

I appreciate your honesty.  I will likewise respond in a frank
and sincere manner.

I am assuming that students wishing to gravitate towards a
leadership role vis-a-vis this national level USA campaign will
do some homework and read the background documents -- teachers
too for that matter.  For example, the subjects of militancy
and hell-raising are directly taken up at my website, along
with enjoinders re dress code and the need to keep invective
to a minimum.

I disagree with your philosophy re civil disobediance.  Like
many, I come from a folk where the heros are often those who
took a stand and sometimes had to disobey orders, rules, norms,
social expectations or whatever.  It is important that the
important lessons and skills gained from years of civil action
be passed on, and not by waiting for some major crisis to serve
as an excuse for exercising and practicing our freedoms in a
participatory democracy.  Math class is an ideal forum in which
to practice a combination of nonviolent protest and self-
discipline -- at least this is my own experience.

As I posted earlier today in another newsgroup, I expect we'll
only recruit a small elite of supportive organizations, given
the short time-line, mostly those who already appreciate the
decades of maneuvering and networking that have brought us
within striking distance of a very hard target:  mindless
bureaucracy and high levels of obliviousness, in academia and
elsewhere.  To put it tactfully, we're fed up with all the BS
and, like in that movie 'Network' (recommended viewing), we're
mad as hell and ain't gonna to take it anymore.

The more our kids learn about what has been denied them, the
more our job will be to find positive channels for their fury.
If your strategy is to clamp down and enforce more of the
same business-as-usual 'running in place', then you're likely
to foment an explosive situation.  That's why my strategy of
encouraging cool and constructive, pro-active responses, open
to participation at many levels, and accepting of clueless
newbies with open arms, is superior, and already has the
backing of many intelligent and aware adults in high places.

Kirby
Curriculum writer
4D Solutions

---------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner   www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions     www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:32:28 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fuller Quote
Comments: To: schlecmf@esvax.dnet.dupont.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Matthew,

See the article "Profiles: In the Outlaw Area" by Calvin Tomkins in the New
Yorker magazine of Jan. 8, 1966, page ?, or _The Artifacts of R. Buckminster
Fuller, Volume One_ edited by James Ward (1985), page xix (19).

****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew F. SCHLECHT <schlecmf@esvax.dnet.dupont.com>
To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com <joemoore@mail.cruzio.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 06:03 AM
Subject: Fuller Quote


>Dear Mr. Moore:
>
>     I have come upon a quote by R. Buckminster Fuller which I would
>like to
>use in the preface to a book I am working on, to wit:
>
>"Nature has...some sort of arithmetical geometrical coordinate system,
>because
>nature has all kinds of models.  What we experience of nature is in
>models,
>and all of nature's models are so beautiful."
>
>     I pulled this statement came from a book of quotations, and its
>source
>was given as "In the Outlaw Area."  I have searched extensively to find
>if
>this is the title of a book or an article, or whatever, but have been
>frustrated so far.  Can you help me out with a better description of the
>
>source of this fine quote?
>
>     Thanks in advance,
>
>---------------------------------
>Matthew F. Schlecht
>DuPont Agricultural Products
>Newark, DE  19714-0030    USA
>tel 302-366-5760 fax 366-5738
>Matthew.F.Schlecht@usa.dupont.com
>---------------------------------
>
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:05:19 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: Re: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Lauren7333@aol.com <Lauren7333@aol.com>
To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com <joemoore@mail.cruzio.com>
Date: Thursday, October 23, 1997 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller


>
>In a message dated 10/13/97 7:55:24 PM, you wrote:
>
>>Lauren,
>>
>>Would you mind posting the ways that people can contact the R.Buckminster
>>
>>Fuller Estate? [Email, US mail, phone, fax, etc.]
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Joe
>
>Hi Joe,
>Just found your question to me in the Syn-L mail.
>The Estate can be reached in the following ways:
>snail mail: 708 Gravenstein Hwy. N. #188, Sebastopol, CA 95472
>Phone: 707-874-3900
>Fax: 707-874-2052
>email: Lauren7333@aol.com or EstateBF@aol.com
>
>Also:
>FYI the Buckminster Fuller Institute is now offering Synergetics and
>Synergetic 2 in a "photocopied' version. Folks can call 805-962-0022 to
>order. More info will be included in their Christmas catalog.
>
>Best,
>Lauren
>
>
>.-
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:15:56 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: Deep Thoughts . . .
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Vee63@aol.com <Vee63@aol.com>
To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com <joemoore@mail.cruzio.com>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 10:13 AM
Subject: Fwd: Deep Thoughts . . .

>     If we could shrink the Earth's population to a village of precisely
>     >>>      100 people. With all existing human ratios remaining the
>     >>>      same, it would look like this:
>     >>>
>     >>>      There would be 57 Asians, 21 Europeans, 14 from the Western
>     >>>      Hemisphere (North and South) and 8 Africans.
>     >>>
>     >>>      51 would be female; 49 would be male
>     >>>
>     >>>      70 would be non-white; 30 white.
>     >>>
>     >>>      70 would be non-Christian; 30 Christian.
>     >>>
>     >>>      50% of the entire world's wealth would be in the hands of
>              only 6 people and all 6 would be citizens of the United
>              States.
>     >>>
>     >>>      80 would live in substandard housing.
>     >>>
>     >>>      70 would be unable to read.
>     >>>
>     >>>      50 would suffer from malnutrition.
>     >>>
>     >>>      1 would be near death, 1 would be near birth
>     >>>
>     >>>      Only 1 would have a college education.
>     >>>
>     >>>      No one would own a computer
>     >>>
>     >>>      When one considers our world from such an incredibly
>              compressed perspective, the need for both tolerance and
>              understanding becomes glaringly apparent........
>     >>>
>     >>>    This was forwarded to me by a friend. If it makes sense to you,
>     >>>    forward it to a friend.
>     >>>
>.-
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Oct 1996 20:07:52 PST
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From:         prkosuth <prkosuth@MYCHOICE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Memo to US Dept of Education
In-Reply-To:  <34581b4a.255673242@news.wenet.net>
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----------
> pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) writes:
>
> >The school activity I'm brainstorming, with assistance from
> >some professional organizers more skilled in these matters than
> >I, is a "National Walk Out of Math Class Day"
>
> Wouldn't a "National Walk Into Math Class Day" be a more
> productive event? How does one focus attention on the poor
> qualities of mathematics education by getting students to
> walk away from mathematics?
>
I have to agree with this. KIds need to be more involved with the material
and the providers of the material. To walk out is only to avoid. Frankly I
think that a walk out would only feed into what students already percieve
as a waste of time --- how about if students become knowledgeable about
what IS important in math and present it teeachers and administrators ?
This is proactive rather than reactive.

As a Jr High and HS math / sci teacher of students with learning
disabilities my greatest strusgle is to get kids engaged with the material.
I think a walk out is silly. Also a lot of the kids who would partake would
probably do so for the wrong reasons --- just another way to avoid what
they already percieve is a waste, this reinforces that perception,  and we
are back in the sulf fullfilling profecy mode again.

prkosuth@mychoice.net
OPINIONS ARE MY  OWN
Brehm Preparatory School
Carbondale IL
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:43:45 GMT
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From:         Don Specht <dspecht@PUDDLE.THAT.FIDO.WET>
Organization: is unachievable in my current state of volatility
Subject:      Re: Memo to US Dept of Education
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On Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:54:38 GMT, pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
wrote:

I usually avoid ad hominem follow-ups, but this misguided attempt at
attention-getting was particularly galling...


>The school activity I'm brainstorming, with assistance from
>some professional organizers more skilled in these matters than
>I, is a "National Walk Out of Math Class Day" (we might come up
>with a better name for it soon).  Web pages should be popping
>up before too long whereon various businesses and other
>organizations, as well as individuals, register their support
>and encouragement for this highly choreographed display of
>civil disobedience, aimed at drawing attention to the neglected
>and sorry state of our current USA mathematics curriculum.

Keep walking, with head down and eyes averted.  You might actually bump
into something that would knock some sense into your addled brain.


>I have recently sent a memo to Ivars Peterson, a respected
>author and mathematics teacher, and frequent contributor to the
>Mathematics Association of America website, about perhaps
>securing MAA support for our campaign.[5]  That would leave the
>NCMT as a key organization from which we'd like to attract
>support.  I wrote the NCMT a memo in February about the math
>curriculum upgrades we're seeking to implement by 1999 and
>trust a lot of NCMT folks are already on board, at least in
>spirit.[6]

It's NCTM.  Geez, this guy is really well-informed.


--
dspecht at ix dot netcom dot com

Fight Spam! Join CAUCE - http://www.cauce.org/


----------------------------
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:28:14 GMT
Reply-To:     box2321@teleport.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: box2321.com
Subject:      Re: Fw: Re: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lauren7333@aol.com <Lauren7333@aol.com>
>To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com <joemoore@mail.cruzio.com>
>Date: Thursday, October 23, 1997 12:48 PM
>Subject: Re: Re: Syn-l: the World of Buckminster Fuller
>
>>FYI the Buckminster Fuller Institute is now offering Synergetics and
>>Synergetic 2 in a "photocopied' version. Folks can call 805-962-0022 to
>>order. More info will be included in their Christmas catalog.

And don't forget the online Synergetics (both volumes combined!) at

http://www.servtech.com/public/rwgray/synergetics/synergetics.html

--
_________________________________________
|    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    http://www.teleport.com/
| (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |             ~box2321/go.htm
| Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |        box2321@teleport.com
-----------------------------------------
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Date:         Wed, 22 Oct 1997 05:55:24 -0700
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From:         "PROMOTIONS promotions"@PROMOTIONS-FOR-YOU18.COM
Organization: IJKL
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Date:         Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:27:32 -0600
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         Tripp Whitlow <whitlowt@APCI.NET>
Subject:      remove
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-----Original Message-----
From: "PROMOTIONS promotions"@PROMOTIONS-FOR-YOU18.COM <"PROMOTIONS
promotions"@PROMOTIONS-FOR-YOU18.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Date: Friday, October 31, 1997 3:18
Subject: >>> F R E E <<<


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><<<==><<===<<><==<>>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:46:31 +0200
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From:         Dawie Venter <dventer@ILINK.NIS.ZA>
Subject:      Geo Green House
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi All

About six months ago, I submitted an article to a local (South-African) DIY
magazine of how to build a 2V Icosa Geodesic Dome Green Shelter, using
simple and readily available material.  Nothing happened.  The magazine
changed editors and yesterday, the new and very enthusiastic editor phoned
me about the article I submitted.  She wants to publish it!  Turns our that
her father was a great fan of geodesic domes and seeing my article brought
back fond memories as well as refreshing the excitement for the potential
of the structure for local conditions.

The magazine will be using my instructions and illustrations to build a
structure, taking photographs of the whole process.  I also suggested that
the manufacturers of the material used to build the structure, e.g. shade
cloth and fastener suppliers, be contacted to donate the material for the
project thereby also stimulating their interest to buy advertising space on
the same pages as the Green Shelter article.  (A win, win situation for
dome builders the magazine and the manufacturers).  The best of all is that
the editor agreed to publish the internet address of this news group as
well as a few other Geodesic URLs.  Hopefully this will generate a lot more
interest in the geodesic dome concept from this part of the world.

Regards
Dawie