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From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Oct 4 13:58:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g94HwMmd024562 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:58:22 -0400 Message-Id: <200210041758.g94HwMmd024562@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 26077 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2002 17:58:12 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (listserv@128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 4 Oct 2002 17:58:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:58:11 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9801" To: Chris Fearnley Status: RO Content-Length: 357236 Lines: 8273 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 00:00:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Thu Jan 1 00:00:03 PST 1998. If you are tired of receiving this message twice per month, and are reading bit.listserv.geodesic through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. (And you don't want to look like a jerk having everyone see your "SUB GEODESIC John Q. Public" command! ;^) ) This list is also linked to USENET in the group bit.listserv.geodesic If you want to receive copies of everything you send to the list, use the command SET GEODESIC REPRO. If you DON'T want copies, use SET GEODESIC NOREPRO. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC You should receive a confirmation note in the mail when you have been successfully removed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LIST ARCHIVES: - Reference.COM has begun archiving this list as of: Jan. 4, 1997 - Searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=GEODESIC@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu And of course, Listserv itself is keeping archives of the list, dating back to June, 1992. Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:32:16 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: HOLIDAY CARD WITH GRAPHICS Comments: cc: SYNERGETICS _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01BD16B1.4B424A60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BD16B1.4B424A60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_004B_01BD16B1.4B424A60" ------=_NextPart_001_004B_01BD16B1.4B424A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Happy Holidays and a Wonderful New Year! JOE S. MOORE ------=_NextPart_001_004B_01BD16B1.4B424A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3D"Santa's

Happy Holidays and a Wonderful New Year!

JOE S. MOORE

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Each Chapter in its own window * Lots of graphics * Value-added software * Manual System Requirements: CPU: 386 or greater RAM:2-4 RAM Hard Disk Space:20 Megs Monitor: SVGA or VGA Price: special offer till March: $35.95 Usual price $49.95 US If interested send cash or cheque to: Larry Mintz c/o Geodesic Software 6625 Mackle Road #604 Cote St Luc Quebec, H4W 2Z8 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:01:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Outrageous (was: things in math books) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TRM wrote: >Kirby Urner wrote: > >> When it comes to geometry especially, I'm aware of no mass market >> text book suitable for my students. They all spend way too much time >> in "flatland" and use a dorky, obsolete approach to spatial geometry >> which kids today find laughable, once exposed to the right stuff. > >Then write the text and let people choose. I have read some of your >stuff from your website. I appreciate the effort and I agree with some >of what you say in regards to changes in the US curriculum. I wouldn't >follow your curriculum, however, based on what I've seen of it >(admittedly, not much). > How is creating my website, of which you've admittedly read little, that different from writing the text and letting people choose? My website is viewable by all browsers, free of charge, so gets around the price tag barrier. Why should I waste trees and do a mass published paper pulp version? >If she was truly advocating ignoring the new book, why spend $50K - >$100K on something she has no intention of using? Talk about real-world >applications of common sense! What real-world lesson are we proposing >here? "Go ahead and spend the money - we'll store the books in kids' >lockers. We have plenty of extra money to get what we really need." I agree with you here -- but I wonder if she was consulted as to what book was selected. The institution demands that some book be procured, just because "that's what we've always had" -- so if the book turns out to be a dud, what's a creative teacher supposed to do? My feeling is a lot of good teachers have learned to put the textbook in the far background with good reason, and I don't buy your thesis that there is sufficient variety and nuance in the offerings to suit any school system -- there isn't. That's why I think the web is such an important development. Teachers now have the ability to write and share curriculum themselves, not relying on the mass publishers to do the job. I think the students will benefit. >On >the other side of the coin, I proposed taking this opportunity to find >or write a new book. (I disagree with you, Kirby, as to the availability >and utility of material) As another alternative, use that $50K to buy >something the faculty really could use and continue to poke into the old >textbook as usual. > Write a website, not a book. Books are not nearly as efficient, especially in the graphics department. So easy to make web materials rich in graphics and hyperlinks to related readings -- so difficult for pulp publishers to compete. >> Math >> teachers are often the worst when it comes to updating the curriculum, >> since they only know to teach what they themselves were taught, so >> any hint of a new or different curriculum is quickly suppressed in >> a flurry of business about "safer" topics. > >Bull. The maths and sciences are the first to incorporate newer >material. For those who graduated before 1980, anything to do with >personal computers, the internet, and graphing calculators is "new" and >wasn't taught to us. Somehow we manage to incorporate this into the >curriculum. I disagree completely. The mass published mathematics curriculum has done a very poor job of integrating computer languages with the standard math typographies, and math classrooms are backward in the extreme when it comes to taking advantage of available technology. There's been some change, obviously, but also a lot of floundering and missed opportunities. If you're feeling proud of what mathematics has done to accommodate the computer, then I must assign us to opposing poles on that spectrum. My push is for "math centers" built around a "mission control" design, with students each having screens and keyboards, with a big screen or screens in front. Programming and mathematics will be completely mixed together, just like at NASA. Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:55:06 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Fw: Syn-l: Dropping links to BFI.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Joe S. Moore" wrote: >> We are pleased to announce the first phase of a project to build an >> on-line "operating manual for spaceship earth." Our vision is to >> ultimately create a state-of-the-art internet service providing >> comprehensive access to resources and information critically >> relevant to humanity's success. >> How will this differ from any number of websites already doing a good job of indexing global data sources? Does "internet service" mean website? Does BFI want to become an ISP (service provider?). Very vague language, and yet funds are requested. For what exactly? Is this the Larry Mintz project? >> In 1998 we will start placing key sections of the Fuller Archive on >> the internet. By providing electronic access to important planetary >> resources such as the Archive, we believe the Institite can be a >> meaningful catalyst toward the realization of a world where the >> essential needs are met for all people on an ecologically >> sustainable basis. >> Why wasn't this done in 1997? Kiyoshi provided a server with plenty of gigabytes. BFI procured a scanner, thanks to Mike Kelly and Bonnie among others (plus a very generous grant!). All the necessary tools were in place for many months in 1997. It would have taken very little to have shared some archival materials on the web. Why wasn't this done? The website has been allowed to languish, unchanged since April of last year, after many hours of volunteer time spent to get it going (and not just mine), including getting bfi.org registered with the Internic as a domain name etc. One more opportunity wasted as far as I can see. >> >> It is imperative that access to this remarkable R&D gold mine, and >> chronicle of the 20th Century be fully available to concerned >> citizens around the planet such as students, scholars, educators, >> designers, scientists, futurists, and renewable resource advocates. >> BFI was founded out of a belief that the family would do a better job managing the archives than a university or museum. Institutions of the latter sort have offered to take on the huge job of going through the boxes and making this material accessible to scholars, but BFI has turned them down. No professional archivist has been retained. Bonnie was taking some classes, but she's long gone. Big bucks get charged (like $50 an hour) to visiting scholars, but mostly they're confronted with unindexed materials, still in boxes -- 15 years later. BFI has no executive director -- highly unusual for any organization calling itself a non-profit. In California it's legal to pay board members of tax-exempt organizations (other states don't allow this) and BFI has a long history of paying family directors from BFI funds, even if said family was hundreds of miles distant, doing nothing about those boxes, gabbing endlessly on the phone. >> Our mission and the on-line launch of the Fuller Archive reflects a >> fundamental new understanding about what BFI is well positioned to >> accomplish, and how we can make the greatest impact in continuing to >> develop Bucky's work. By combining our unique assets with the >> remarkable potentials created by information age technology, >> especially the internet, we can rapidly facilitate communication and >> synergy between an expanding, but highly fragmented number of >> individuals, projects and organizations dedicated to solving >> cruicial global problems. >> I'd have liked better access to the archives no question, but BFI could have provided this long ago. This "fundamental new understanding" sounds kind of ridiculous. Like, duh. So is the plan to use that expensive scanner to get some stuff on the bfi.org server? If so, then do it already, right now, today. I keep checking the site and seeing no change. Plus I asked to have my name taken off anywhere it appears, but apparently no one at BFI even knows how to log on to the BFI website -- I gave John Ferry the password like a year ago. And this is our new information age "catalyst"? Sorry, but I'm way too disillusioned for words when it comes to BFI's track record. If you good hearted people out there want to send more money to that family charity, go right ahead. I know the vision is alluring. But for someone like me, who has followed the history for quite some time, there's simply no point carrying this deadweight any further. When I think of all the many volunteers who have poured their time, vision, and personal funds into that institution, with so little to show for it in terms of results (plus I hear their stories about what it was on the inside -- not pretty), I can only think that BFI owes us big time -- everything it has would be too little. Most of all, BFI owes Bucky. Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:29:58 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Fw: Syn-l: Dropping links to BFI.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote: >"Joe S. Moore" wrote: > >>> We are pleased to announce the first phase of a project to build an >>> on-line "operating manual for spaceship earth." ...Just to clarify, Joe Moore is not the author of the cited text, which I critiqued in my above post. Joe was merely relaying my recent post to Synergetics-L about how I'm cutting all ties with BFI, followed by excerpts from the Dec 12 1997 BFI fundraising letter, as quoted by Michael Stutz -- the paragraphs I critiqued. Joe is a major scholar and webmaster for the Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute (http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/) which is a far more comprehensive and useful website than the bfi.org site ever was, even before it withered on the vine. Michael (http://dsl.org/m/) is an intriguing gent whom I've talked with only a little on the phone when he interviewed me for that piece on Wired News [1]. He's strongly into 'copyleft' as a way to frustrate piggy backers from using 'public domain' texts to feather their own nests without properly crediting sources -- a practice all true scholars frown upon and relay news and views about through the grapevine when such offenses are detected. For more links to interesting people involved in this work, see my links at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/artindex.html (by no mean comprehensive -- but linked to sites which have a lot more relevant links). [1] http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/6689.html --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:02:55 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: The Butterfly Subject: Zometool! Comments: To: domesteading@bootstrap.sculptors.com Hi, all... I just got a Zometool 5 kit from my girlfriend for Christmas, and it's amazingly cool. :-) I was just scanning through the back issues of the list, and see people were discussing them almost exactly a year ago. (Right after Christmas....A-yup....) For those who haven't seen them, check out http://www.zometool.com/ for some nifty graphics. You can get Zometool 3 and Zometool 5 (121 and 242 pieces, respectively) from the BFI as well, but if you go to Zometool's website, you can get pieces in the 400-900-1400 range, as well as specific struts or hubs as add-ons. With the Zometool 5 kit, I've built a dome about 2.5' or 3' in diameter, and am playing around with some modified dome structures. I'm also eyeing up those expander-kits so I can build larger structures... :-) Happy New Year, all! -- Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:30:51 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: aagdii Subject: Reference.COM View Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6016D104E8D" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6016D104E8D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/go.py?choice=message&table=12_1997&mid=5030086&cur=1&hitcount=1&context=KDAa0078t&hilit=AEROLOGY&search=simple&querytext=aerology&mode=Quick --------------6016D104E8D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="go.py" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="go.py" Content-Base: "http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/go .py?choice=message&table=12_1997&mi d=5030086&cur=1&hitcount=1&context= KDAa0078t&hilit=AEROLOGY&search=sim ple&querytext=aerology&mode=Quick" Reference.COM View Message

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	Subject: celestral weather
	From: "aerology" <aerology@dustdevil.com>
	Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 13:03:03 -0600
	Message-ID: <19971231131601.7a777565.in@dustdevil.com>
	Mailing List: wholesys-l@majordomo.netcom.com

	Word Matches: AEROLOGY

Original letter Nov 1994 and update on progress Nov 1997 below.

     EXTRATERRESTRIAL DRIVING FORCES OF THE GLOBAL CIRCULATION?
           A Hypothesis as a result of independent study.  Nov. 1994

        Due to the right hand rule of physics, homopolar generator charges
result when a magnetic material rotates in a magnetic field. There is a
deflection of positive carriers toward the circumference, or the equator
in the case of the Earth, and electrons or negative ions are pushed
toward the axis, or poles. The resultant charge difference from axis to
circumference is dependent upon the magnetic permeability, the magnetic
field strength, and rotational speed, and increases in either rotational
speed, or field strength, will force the system to charge or discharge
proportionally. Or to speed up or slow down, along with charge
changes,when the field strength is varied.
        These forces affect stellar growth and show up as electron and/or
negative ion flows from the poles of protostars, which continues until
the star has gained enough mass to gravitationally hold a balance with
the radiational pressure, on these ions, that are suspended on magnetic
field lines that flow out with the ions. When the star reaches
equilibration of these forces, for it's mass, it is said to be mature and
then falls on the main sequence.
        As the individual particles stream from the star, they are slowed by
expansive cooling, random collisions, gravitational, and magnetic
reattraction to the star. As the speed of ongoing collisions in the wind
slows, the absolute temperature drops, and the particles de-ionize, form
atoms again, and by random collision forces, acting similar to fractional
distillation forces, separate the elements and compounds by their density
to surface area ratios. The density gradient in the planets that form is
a result of this process. The large gas planets form out past the range
where the ambient temperature in the solar wind allows hydrogen to
de-ionize.
        As this process starts in the young solar nebula that build around
maturing stars, the homopolar fields sweep positive charged and neutral
particles onto the star's magnetic equator, where gravitational and tidal
forces clump them together into planets and their moons. In the case of
the Earth there where large fluxes of gravitational, tidal, and magnetic
forces that required the formation of a two body Earth/Moon system, with
the resultant orbital dynamics of the moon, needed to maintain stability.
        There are field lines from the Sun to every particle that remains inside
the ionic sphere of it's domain. When the solar nebula was uncluttered
with planets, the fields were evenly distributed. Now however there are
magnetic couplings between the Sun and the planets, representative of
their size and magnetic content.
        When planets come into alignment heliocentrically, their magnetic fields
couple through each other, producing a momentary peak in field strength
at these conjunctions, which pulls out loops of magnetic fields from
inside the Sun, solar prominences of  particles form as they follow the
field lines. The timing, duration, and intensity of these pulses depends
upon which and how many planets are having a conjunction, and how close
together the alignment is at the peak of coupling.
        When ever the two largest gas planets, Jupiter and Saturn have a
Heliocentric conjunction, the amount of coupling is high enough to cause
large solar storms, and when the Earth is in the line of fire, it inducts
huge magnetic storms into the atmosphere. Large power generating systems
usually fail to handle the near D.C. low frequency current flows induced
into the grids ground buss systems, causing current overloads and large
scale power outages.
        The Earth's large scale magnetic fields are torroid shaped due to the
mantle being a good blend of magnetic materials, and the inner core,
being composed of elements heavier than Iron, doesn't conduct magnetic
fields well. The hole in the Ozone at the South pole is caused by this
shape, as the weakness of the flux density inside the hole area, fails to
maintain the conversion of oxygen into ozone.  The usual conservation of
energy mechanism, in areas of high magnetic field density because the
difference between O2 and O3 in magnetic susceptibility is a
thousandfold.
        The homopolar generator effects of the Earth are influenced by it's
rotational speed, and the variability of the interplanetary magnetic
field strength. Studies of the length of day change show a seasonal
speeding up of the Earth as we pass between the Sun and the center of the
Galaxy, due to the increased magnetic field couplings there. The remnant
magnetic coupling effects of the "Grand Alignment" of the planets,are
occurring in (1995) late summer, and you should be able to see their
influences in current length of day change studies.
        The Moon is magnetically and gravitationally locked to the Earth, and
when I looked at the Auroral displays, the extension of fields between
the Earth and Moon produces a bulge in the displayed Auroral activity
that rotates with the moon. It is the Earth/Moon barycenter, not the
center of mass of the Earth that scribes the smooth ellipsoidal orbit of
the Earth on the ecliptic plane, around this, the center of mass of the
Earth follows a spiraling path, as a result of the leveraging of the
moon's declinational and rotational movement. With this spiraling of the
center of mass of the Earth above and below the ecliptic plane, induction
forces felt upon the Earth (working similar to someone moving a magnet in
and out of a coil), Drive the magnetic fields of the Earth's internal
dynamo into typical shock exited oscillations, at the driven periodicity.
        The Lunar declinational component cycles from a minimum of 18 1/2
degrees, to a maximum of 27 1/2 degrees in the 18.6 year Mn cycle,
displacing the center of mass of the Earth 800Km to 1400Km either side of
the ecliptic plane.
        As the moon moves from North to South, air masses are moved in phase.
Magnetic fields produced by the inductive effects of this movement sweep
ions and static charges, along with the air masses, Because of the
herding effects of the fields, the charges move with the leading edges of
the air masses, so these residual charges are not depleted as thought,
and are visible by Doppler radar, but have been dismissed as solely the
particulate matter and small insects that get caught up in the charge
front.
        Air masses and the clouds perturbed from equatorial areas carry a net
positive residual ionic/static charge, that helps prevent rapid
condensation, by mutual static repulsion between condensational nuclei
that maintains more uniform size of nebulized droplets, aids in super
cooling, and results in rapid precipitation when meeting air masses from
more polar regions which carry a residual negative ionic/static charge,
that also prevents rapid condensation by mutual static repulsion inside
of those clouds.
        Upon meeting at a frontal boundary, the static charges on the colliding
air masses allow the condensational nuclei to attract each other, and
help to generate the rapid precipitation usually seen in narrow frontal
boundaries. When the static charged air masses override neutral charged
air masses or ground substrate, without confronting other charge fronts,
wide areas of gradual drizzle or slow rate precipitation occur.
        The condensation of water vapor to liquid reduces the volume of it 1,600
times or so, the net reduction in air volume due to the rate of
precipitation determines the lowered pressure in the front. During the
resultant precipitation, the static charges in the air mass traveling
through the cloud are left on the droplets and the now cooler and
de-ionized air exits the cloud denser, forming down bursts and other
outflows.
        The charge gradient between the air masses powers the inter cloud
lightning, and the charge gradient between the ground substrate, and the
resultant net cloud charge powers the cloud to ground lightning. The
static charges bled to the ground substrate bias it, so the last wave of
frontal activity through an area set the stage for the lightning
interactions with further invading air masses. Storms traveling along
standing frontal boundaries have mostly inter cloud discharges, where
storms on a fast moving front, have a lot more cloud to ground
discharges.
        Increases in the global homopolar generator magnetic fields, increases
the pole to equator potential, slows down the polar negative leakage,
increases the generation of positive ions at the equator and ITZ, and
during the charging cycle time inhibits tropical precipitation rates.
Adds energy to hurricanes moving to the mid latitudes, in synch with the
lunar crossings  (North or South).  With the inverse for periods of
decreases in field strength, the global circuit discharges through fast
moving polar air masses that carry strong static discharges that when
meeting equatorial air masses give rise to intense thunderstorms.
        At times of the year when the Earth comes into alignment with other
planets, these effects are increased in proportion to resultant magnetic
flux changes, and are felt as changes in the global weather patterns. The
heliocentric conjunctions of other planets also affect the Earth's global
circuit to some degree, depending on the planets' sizes
and heliocentric angular proximity to the Earth.
        When there are several large planets in close heliocentric proximity, as
in the case of the 1981/1982  "Grand Alignment," approaching the point of
closest alignment, magnetic fields of the sun are drawn out and solar
storms of particles escape with them. The induced surges in the global
circuit produce massive magnetic sub storms, and waves of free electrons,
starting as expansive surges in the aurora displays, then cascading down
from the poles. The power outages that accompany them are a result of the
large currents carried through the common ground busses, of the system,
conducting from Northern extremes to more Southern areas. When the
current surges are rapid enough to generate frequencies that can be
coupled through the power transformers, they induct out of phase currents
into the primaries of the power grid over loading them.
        As an example of the long term charging effects of the global circuit,
the North African drought preceding the peak of the charging effects, was
due to the resultant poleward expansion of the subtropical jet streams.
(Jet streams form where the edge of a charged air mass meets neutral, or
ion depleted mid latitude air masses.)
        As the solar and lunar declination came into synch at 23 1/2 degrees, in
1982/83 their primary and secondary declinational tidal bulges enhanced
each other, and pumped the Pacific marine layer over and around the
Rockies and the Andes mountains that usually turn it back to the west to
form the trade winds. Because of the Grand Alignment's enhancement of the
normal homopolar generator's driving fields the effects were much
stronger than usual. During the ensuing wet period as discharging started
in the Northern hemisphere, large volumes of midlattitude air dried out
and regained a neutral static charge. The Lunar declinational angle
peaked around September of 1987 and was decreasing again, causing an
increase in the polar out wash of this dry air, producing the North
American Midwestern drought from 1987 to 1991.
        The Canadian air mass cycle lasting from November 27th 1990 to the 23rd
of December 1990 was enhanced in volume and speed by the depolarizing
effects of a conjunction of Mars with Earth. The resultant avalanche of
polar air swept into Southern California faster than they could pump
water to the oranges. (A good example of a short duration, but intense
pulse of homopolar effects.) This effect will probably be repeated
to some extent during the Canadian air mass cycle starting February 10,
1995, through March 8, 1995. Due to the Earth/Mars heliocentric
conjunction on February 12,1995, while the two planets are almost alone
on this side of the Sun once again.
        There are several periodicities that occur in the research that have
counterparts in the timing of interplanetary 'Heliocentric Conjunction
Periods.' The 27 month QBO signal appears to be in synch with the (HCP)
of Mars and Jupiter, which just happens to be 30 cycles of 27.32 day
lunar declination periods. The 25 month component appears to be in synch
with the HCP of Mars and Saturn, A 13 month periodicity in synch with the
HCP of Earth and Jupiter.
        Glenn Briar has been helping me with this line of study for several
years and has been very helpful, the last news I got from him concerning
his evaluation of what I think I've found, is the preliminary results of
a study of lag, lag correlated monthly averages, that he thought showed a
strengthening of the 54 day pattern and a strong mode at 240 27.32 Lunar
 Declinational months, and his advice at that time was to use the entire
240 lunar declinational month pattern as a set as the repeatability
looked good. I had already at that time started to look into the HCP's
and had found that there was indeed a better repeatability if I used 8
sets of the 27 calendar months of the QBO Mars/Jupiter HCP and then
adjusted to the closest Lunar declinational cycle, which ended up being
about the same as he had proposed (6554 days).
        In April of 1989 I discovered that there was a repeating pattern in the
satellite photos I saw in the library at M.I.T.'s building 54. In
alternating cycles of Lunar declination, starting at Maximum North,
through maximum South, back to North again. There appears to be two
different types of air mass movement regimes. One with outbreaks of
Alberta clippers through the cycle and the alternate cycle dominated by a
deepening Pacific marine layer coming in off the west coast. The
resultant 54.6 day pattern can again be folded over to a 109 day cycle
that shows an alternation of the Alberta clipper tracks coming down the
east slope of the Rockies, with tracks through N. & S. Dakota/Great lakes
areas.
        Three multiples of this pattern is 327/328 days, and it is probably this
that gives the persistence to the annual reference used by CAC in
generating their seasonal forecasts. There is a repeatability in the 18.6
Year Mn cycle of Lunar declination that is usable when the 54.6 or 109
day cycle is compensated for. The 240 units of the 27.32 period or 6554
days gives a better pattern of repeatability, but compensation for
skewing on the 18.6 year pattern after two or three cycles is needed. I
found the best pattern of repeatability so far, results when the
Mars/Jupiter HCP is used to gauge the skewing skip periods. There results
a jump of 20 years then between the 12-15-1973 reference year and the
1-1-1994 forecast period year, for equivalent synchronism of all the
component periodicities. The 18.6 year Mn cycle, Lunar phase, anomalistic
cycle, tidal bulge location on the surface of the Earth, and the 27 month
Mars/Jupiter HCP.
        What needs to be done to generate a national forecast to test my
hypothesis is to start with the Daily synoptic maps for the date January
18, 1938 for day 1 of cycle 1, January 1, 1956 for day 1 of cycle 2,
December 15, 1973 for day 1 of cycle 3. Forecast for day one of cycle 4
is January 1, 1994.
        First compute the average of the locations of the fronts and their
associated lows from the past three cycles, plot them in, and locate the
average center of the highs in the expanding, warming invading northern
air masses and then plot them in, where the average location would have
them indicated to be. Then proceed on to the next day's map, this process
repeated for each day until you have constructed the whole years'
forecast. To generate more years of forecast just keep up the process for
up to 18 years.
        The repeatability of the cyclic pattern generated from the
synergetically acting global atmospheric circulation's driving forces
should give results equal to the accuracy of the current three day
forecast. The starting dates for January 1, 1995 are January 18, 1939 for
Cycle 1, December 31, 1956, for Cycle 2, and December 15, 1974 for cycle
3.
        The single point data sources I have processed this way, show a
repeatable pattern that when used as a forecast, without any compensation
for residual differences between the cyclic patterns, yields reliability
about equal to the three day forecast. I would like to get access to
whole USA daily synoptic weather maps for the source years to test the
hypothesis on a larger scale.
        I have a McIntosh IICi with 32 Meg of RAM And 230 Meg of hard drive, I
can import graphics and Picts data into the Delta Graphics Pro 3.5
software I am using to generate the resultant forecasts in a graphic
format. I feel confident that with this data base I should be able to
generate a daily national synoptic map forecast for the period 1994
through 1996, that should run on the average as good as the three day
forecasts would for the same time period.
        The overlap in 1994 would give you time to look at the "hind cast
accuracy", and the rest would be a good "acid test" period to see how
this process would preform for you. The relationship between these
driving forces should give a good picture of the process of the Indian
monsoons, ENSO effects and improve the forecasting of the tracks of
Hurricanes and Typhoons. As they start production as the moon heads
South, shift gears from tropical storm around maximum South, to hurricane
strength, and loop or turn off toward the Northeast as the moon crosses
the equator headed North, and by maximum North lunar declination have
dissipated.



       EXTRATERRESTRIAL DRIVING FORCES OF THE GLOBAL CIRCULATION ??
       UPDATE ON PROGRESS MADE FROM NOV. 94  TO  NOV. 1997.

        I have tried to logically sort out the conceivable links between the
specialties needed to solve the weather's Geophysical picture. There are
several sections that are interrelated, and cannot be separated in regard
to the weather prediction problem. The field of Meteorology has become
fixated on the large body of information available on the lower
atmosphere, and the solar heat input. In order to simplify their
equations to manageable sizes, the field has chosen to ignore any thing
confusing the general picture. In the process I feel that some of the
most important factors needed to get a good answer have been eliminated
from the mix. I think that there are many important forces at work
affecting the progression of fronts across the face of the Earth.
        The Sun is one huge magnetic dynamo and most of the Planets have rather
large magnetospheres, the interactions of which haven't been studied
well. There are research papers in geophysics that can be used to infer
these interactions and their effects on the Earth's weather on a global
scale. I have attempted to reason out the possibilities of these effects,
and to incorporate them into the current forecasting methods.
         Looking at the interactions of the Moon and the Earth with the tidal,
gravitational, and magnetic forces in the solar system that formed with
the condensation of the matter into this planetary system, it becomes
obvious to me that the answer to the Earth's evolutionary puzzle was to
make a two body mass, at this distance from the Sun, with all of the
orbital dynamics still seen today, between the Earth and Moon. Looking at
the natural progression of the trend in the Earth's development as a work
in progress, I started looking for forces at work upon the atmosphere.
        Looking through the folklore, old wives tales, mythology, and American
Indian lore, I came across a description of the construction sequence of
Stonehenge and other stone circles. It seems that the builders of
Stonehenge were more concerned with Lunar Declination than Lunar Phase,
Ecliptic plane crossings than Equatorial crossings, and were preoccupied
with eclipses of the Sun and Moon.
        Reading through research journals, I found that there was a large body
of research on Lunar phase effects, some on ecliptic plane crossings, and
some effects due to tidal and gravitational waves. I looked into Lunar
declinational effects and found nothing in the research data base, so I
started plotting local climatological data, along side lunar phase,
tidal, declinational position in regard to both the Equator and the
Ecliptic plane, and the variations of the Moon's orbital speed.
        This is a brief overview of what I have found and I am convinced that
the forces driving the global circulation are really solar system wide. I
am not well versed in the interplanetary magnetic field interactions that
I need to prove the mechanism I am suggesting, as I have not found a
readily available source of information on this subject.
        I found that there was a better correlation between the Lunar
declination, with the swings of the jet streams than any other Lunar
orbital parameter. Watching the satellite photos on TV and looking at an
ephemeris nightly for several months, I soon found that there was indeed
a good correlation between the frontal movement and Lunar declinational
movement.
        I had the opportunity to go to Boston the first week in April of 1989.
While in the area I stopped by M.I.T. Building 54 to discuss my ideas
with someone there, but I arrived as almost everyone was leaving for an
International convention in Madrid, Spain. I spent most of the next five
days looking through the Satellite photos and weather maps in the
library. I found there was a repeating pattern in the satellite photos I
saw in the library. In alternating cycles of Lunar declination, starting
at Maximum North, through maximum South, back to North again.
        There appears to be two different types of air mass movement regimes.
One with outbreaks of Alberta clippers through the cycle and the
alternate cycle dominated by a deepening Pacific marine layer coming in
off the west coast. The resultant 54.6 day pattern can again be folded
over to a 109 day cycle that shows an alternation of the Alberta clipper
tracks coming down the east slope of the Rockies, with tracks through N.
& S. Dakota, then South into the gulf states. 54/55 days later the
Alberta clipper tracks follow a Great lakes area invasion site and then
track out thru the East coast.
        In the process of talking to Glenn Briar about his research and mine, he
mentioned that I might look at patterns around 6575 days long, as he had
found good lag, lag correlations in my data around that periodicity. He
then recalled that there was a modality of all of the orbital parameters
of the Moon around 6554 days as well as the Heliocentric alignment of the
inner planets. In 6554 days the Earth makes almost 18 orbits, Mars 9
orbits, Venus 24 orbits, and Mercury makes 74 and a half orbits.
        I started looking at these time scales, and there staring out at me was
a view of interlocking cycles of interplanetary interaction, that seems
to explain a lot of the periodicities mentioned in a lot of the research.
Mars laps Jupiter every 27 months, or 30 Lunar declinational cycles, the
strongest of the QBO cycle tempos. With the timing, of the 'Mars/Jupiter
Heliocentric conjunctions' synchromeshing with the times of peak upper
level zonal wind speeds. Earth laps Jupiter every 13 months or 14 lunar
declinational cycles, another of the strong periodicities and almost half
of the 27 month period.  Earth laps Mars every 25 months, another of the
strong QBO cycle tempos.
        If I start with the 6554 day pattern, and divide by the 27.32 day
period, I get 240 lunar declinational cycles, or eight times the 30 lunar
declinational periods of the QBO cycle. Also being devisable by 4 the
integrity of either the 54 day, or 109 day patterns of global circulation
is preserved. The Heliocentric conjunctions of the inner planets got me
thinking about what were the periodicities of the outer planets
Heliocentric conjunctions?
        The time it takes for Jupiter to lap Saturn can be found if I add one 27
month M/JHC QBO cycle to the 18 Year period of 6554 days, the J/SHC
meshes with the peak of the wet period in the Midwestern 20 year drought
cycle. If I add one more 27 month M/JHC QBO cycle, I get the periodicity
of the sunspot cycle or the time needed for Mars to gain 10 laps on
Jupiter and for both to be back at the same place relative to the star
field. The time it takes Saturn to lap Neptune is about 36 years or about
twice the 6554 day periodicity.
        In all cases when there is a heliocentric conjunction between the Earth
and any of the other planets, or between any two planets down stream from
the Earth in the solar wind, there is an (Earth) Global homopolar
charging effect that shortens the length of day, as it tries to speed up
the Earth, and a surge of equatorial air pumped into the midlattitude, up
to the point of the conjunction. After the peak of coupling the length of
day increases as the Earth slows down and the discharge of the global
fields takes the form of negative charged out washes of polar air masses
that sweep into the midlattitude, thru the Alberta clipper type cycles in
place at that time, and generate intense to severe thunder storms. The
timing and duration of these cycles depend on the size of the
magnetospheres of the planets involved and is usually in the range of 5
to 10 days for both the charge and discharge cycles.
        The length of time it takes the Earth to lap Jupiter is almost 13 months
or 14 lunar declinational cycles or 383 days, the synoptic map similarity
on this time period is good for the 54 day periodicity, but out of phase
with the wet/dry periods of the 27 month QBO Cycle, and out of step for
the 109 day pattern so the (383 day period) of the Alberta Clipper
routing is not optimal to use as a forecast tool. However the 766 day
repeat pattern is back in phase to the day and fairly close to in phase
for the 27 month QBO cycle so these precipitation data sets to be used
for a  forecast match better at this period.
        To generate a forecast using this natural analog cyclic pattern, I
started by Inserting the best matches of the 27 month Mars/Jupiter
HC?/QBO cycles in as the starting dates for a sequence of 6554 days of
local climatological data. Plotting the combinational pattern on
computer, generates an 18 year long pattern with a repeatability for day
by day temperatures that once again, repeats for the present cycle with a
greater accuracy than the three day forecast averages.
        The state wide spread of temperatures and precipitation amounts from
these past periods when used as a forecast on a day to day basis yields
an up to 18 year long forecast data set that does about 70% better than
Climatology, for the Midwestern USA and I expect it will work worldwide
as well.
        With the purchase of the NOAA "Cooperative Summary of the Day" CD Rom
data base, and a new Power Macintosh 9600/200 with DOS/Windows on a PCI
card, I am extracting data sets for whole state forecasts. It appears
that the pattern I found in the local area data sets works for the
cd/whole state data, just as well in the plains area, and better the
farther East I go  from the lee side of the Rockies
        The problems I am having with this forecast method stem from the
Earth's interactions with the outer planets, resulting in short term
patterns of global homopolar charging and then quick discharging
patterns, that are not in synch with the same outer planet / Earth HC's
from the previous 6554 day patterns of inner planet heliocentric
conjunctions and oppositions.
        These excursions can be adjusted for by comparing their affected
departures from the previous forecast patterns, based on the previous 766
day period, and then reimposing these departures into the current
forecast data sets as a corrective bias.  The data set I have now
(1900-1993) is not current enough to be able to do this at this time.
        I would like to have an active program that could process the data base,
generate a corrected data set, as per the previous paragraph, and plot
the averaged corrected data, onto a national map, at the original
longitude and latitude of the observation point. Then I could display the
resultant set of temperatures as contour lines, and precipitation as XYZ
height contours, at the resolution of original data point density.
        From my observed results, I firmly believe a synoptic map based forecast
could also be generated with this method, if access to a digitized
archaic synoptic map data base could be found that goes back at least 40
years. Other weather related data bases could be used directly to create
a forecast for, power plant fuel consumption, Gas, fuel oil, river
levels, hail damage, irrigation requirements, ect.

        Richard Holle                     aerology@dustdevil.com
        RR 3 Box 372
        Concordia, Kansas 66901-9149
        (785)243-7504


  If you would like a copy of one of these statewide/or area wide year
long forecasts for all of 1998, or longer, to evaluate e@mail me a
mailing address to send a hard copy to.  Currently charging, $5.00 per
state/area per year of forecast plus $5.00 S&H to cover postage.

               Current List of Area wide Forecasts  now available.
        Eastern Kansas, Western Kansas, South Western Kansas, North             Central
Kansas,Eastern Nebraska, Western Nebraska,                      Omaha/Lincoln
area,Northern Illinois, Southern Illinois,
        The Lakes in the Missouri / Arkansas area,  & the two parts of
                Florida.

                Whole State forecasts compiled from the CD/database,
        Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana,       Iowa,
Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota,                Mississippi,
Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota,  South Dakota,North Carolina, South
Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Vermont, Virgina, & Wisconsin,  As
of (12-21-97)

--------------6016D104E8D-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:23:47 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: WEB SITE AUDITORS Comments: To: Margaret & Dino Campo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1903.398ED460" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1903.398ED460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Margaret, The following are some web site auditors that I found: WebSideStory (I use) http://www.hitbox.com/wc/world.html=20 WebCounter http://www.digits.com/=20 WebTracker http://www.fxweb.holowww.com/tracker/=20 I also found the following sites related to selecting colors: http://www.missouri.edu/~wwwtools/colormaker/ ColorMaker http://www.biola.edu/cgi-bin/colorpro/ Colorserve http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Lindsay/colours.html Colour Selector Page **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1903.398ED460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Margaret,

The following are some web site = auditors that I=20 found:

WebSideStory (I = use) http://www.hitbox.com/wc/wor= ld.html=20

WebCounter http://www.digits.com/

WebTracker http://www.fxweb.holowww.c= om/tracker/=20

I also found the = following sites=20 related to selecting colors:

http://www.missour= i.edu/~wwwtools/colormaker/ =20 ColorMaker

http://www.biola.edu/cgi-= bin/colorpro/ =20 Colorserve

http://catless.ncl= .ac.uk/Lindsay/colours.html =20 Colour Selector Page

****************************************
* Joe S. = Moore
*=20 Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
= *=20 Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore= /
****************************************

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1903.398ED460-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:18:15 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Dymaxion Car Research The best single source I know of for information on the dymaxion "cars" is Jay Baldwin's article in AUTOMOBILE magazine, July 88. Very good stuff, and a neat article about Syd Mead in the same issue. The patent is also available in RBF's INVENTIONS, from St. Martins's Press. Baldwin's BuckyWorks should also be mentioned, which I sell at: www.winkworks.com BTW, contrary to persistant rumor, there is no "missing" dymaxion vehicle. It was destroyed by a auto junkyard owner near Wichita, KS, during the Korean war. Too bad. Also, for you dymaxion buffs: I have in my posession pieces of the actual dymaxion house. Pieces of the plywood floor actually, including one complete wedge, of 2 pieces. I might be persuaded to provide small pieces of this with book orders. Just ask. Wink wink@winkworks.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:27:31 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Zometool! Those of you interested in Zometool should visit my website- www.winkworks.com ...where you can also get Baldwin's BuckyWorks and Steve Baer's DOME COOKBOOK (not about geodesics but zonahedral structures), as well as other interesting stuff pertaining to geodesics, geometry and structure. Wink wink@winkworks.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:44:04 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Links to FBI In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the reason they kepth the archieves hidden for long could be that some want to derive profit, ego status, control. but my question is what is contained in this archieves, could it be more important than the British Archieves which were storied in Canada during the second WW, from the fear that the german might get it. tagdi p.s in the past i was in haste, many drams, i hope things settle so one can take time to dig into the imprtant questions , invistiagation and solutions. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:04:54 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Re: housing solutiion Comments: To: Robert Conroy In-Reply-To: <199712311323_MC2-2D9E-1526@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Bob > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy > p.s. > Your address ends in "nl". Is that the Netherlands? If your country has a i am originaly from libya, i live at this time here. but in holland there is not much allowed building, it is compact country and i still dont understand it. it is basicaly very bussy mixing everthing up. i need to get out from here to see how the world works, i use to live in seattle the last time i was in the states from 1985-88 > metric standard with standard lumber coming in metric sizes, please let me > know your country, and the standard sizes of lumber available locally which > correspond to English 2x4s, 2x6s, & 4x8 sheet material in sizes of 1/2" and > 5/8". I also will need to know your standard door sizes and windows > equivalent to the English 32" & 36" width door and 43" & 34" width windows. > This winter I plan on drawing plans using the metric standards if I can > find some kind of world standardization. > if you explain to me the sheets, i can ask a friend of mine. but rest asured it is totaly mixed up system, they use alot of cement here and bricks, also some wood but it si not like the states. so explain the what you mean by the above sheets. and i will ask about the windows. you see i am not in constructionm building business, but i would like to learn how to build them. you said that it cost 2000 dollars, i was thinking in the future i might ask my brother to lear how to build them and we could start building them in libya, but you know the world is crayzy now days and you never know if somthing is going to work- much politics going on. i will check your page, but i real want to go big with this. why no one started mass production, i will be stdying abit about industrialization, marketing and MN to see why no one could undertake them. i belive that one should do their best to go that direction. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:24:51 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Baldwin, In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII what did Baldwin do that is new, is he leading the way to new solution in building domes. i think learning about property of materials in simple and general way will help finding new combination. who knows one might make domes out of new kind of colored tick light glass, with framed cement like type dome, were the glass fit in the tringles automaticaly with very little effort and weight. i wounder how it feels to live in light weight dome, are we used to living in heavy strucure. -- incenerating toilet, a while ago i red somthing about that. i think that is not what fuller talked about, in inceneratin toilet the tempreture gets higher than 1000 c i think, to make the human waste into ashes. --- for some of you who know somthing about industrialization please say somthing. i been reading somthing about the history of British industry, and some companies which had to change stratagey to deal with competition. from there i came to the conclusion that companies will always have hard time- just like the ship building 'industry in specialy in england, were the goverment came to their aid. fuller talks about socialization from above, and from this one could also see how a prime minister like Blair, and prisedent like Clinton are realy servent of the industry. how this will help bring the construction industry to the attention of some MN, i think it is connected to the expansion some companies have to gotthrouhg to survive. new procduct or buying into other comnpanies products. but we need to know much to predict anything, tagdi any titles realted to Crunch of the Giant, that help understanding more about MN, could please list anybooks that realte to the subject. or anybooks that give depth to what Mn are doing. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:20:32 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Re: housing solutiion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Tom, You wrote: << if you explain to me the sheets, i can ask a friend of mine.>> In the U.S., sheet material, such as plywood and sheet rock comes in 48 inch x 96 inch sheets. To reduce wastage of material for a design in Holland, I would have to know what size of sheets their material comes in= =2E = On the other hand, Holland probably doesn't have any lumber, therefore th= e cost of a lumber house would probably be too expensive, and it would be cheaper to fabricate it somewhere else and pay the freight to ship in a prefabricated structure. Check out my page on concrete domes. << i was thinking in the future i might ask my brother to lear how to build them and we could start building them in libya>> I am thinking that Libya doesn't have a lumber supply. Since they have o= il and clay, they probably have a cement industry. I would assume that a concrete dome would be a better design for that country. If they have volcanic rock, then possibly a light weight concrete dome would be in order. Certain volcanic rock can be made to pop like popcorn and can be used in a simple light weight concrete dome dwelling. = You have to remember that the U.S. subsidizes the energy and the lumber industry. Not all countries will have material cost the same as t= he U.S. Housing design needs to be somewhat site specific, not only taki= ng in the economics of the location but the weather and terrain as well as t= he mind set of the population. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/concrete/htm Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:37:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: Fw: Syn-l: Dropping links to BFI.ORG In-Reply-To: <34b0f0c3.25183211@news.teleport.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Kirby Urner wrote: > BFI was founded out of a belief that the family would do a better > job managing the archives than a university or museum. Institutions > of the latter sort have offered to take on the huge job of going > through the boxes and making this material accessible to scholars, > but BFI has turned them down. No professional archivist has been > retained. Bonnie was taking some classes, but she's long gone. Does anyone know what their archival procedures have been thus far to keep the materials from degrading? > I'd have liked better access to the archives no question, but BFI > could have provided this long ago. This "fundamental new understanding" > sounds kind of ridiculous. Like, duh. So is the plan to use that > expensive scanner to get some stuff on the bfi.org server? I hope that its more than this -- building a digital library of archival quality is no small task. Photographs, for instance, need to be more than scanned in with a flatbed scanner -- if you want to do it right, the negatives should be sent to a lab where Kodak PhotoCDs can be created, and then files in various resolutions and formats can be derived from these masters. The same probably goes for paper images (which should also be OCRed and turned into plain vanilla ASCII text as well as graphics), but I'm no archivist. Magnetic tapes will also need extensive lab work, especially if they've been sitting around all these years. The sooner, the better. Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:56:06 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: gray Organization: KAIWAN Internet Subject: Re: Zometool! In article <199801040302.TAA02187@bootstrap.sculptors.com>, The Butterfly wrote: > Hi, all... > I just got a Zometool 5 kit from my girlfriend for Christmas, and > it's amazingly cool. :-) > > I was just scanning through the back issues of the list, and see > people were discussing them almost exactly a year ago. (Right after > Christmas....A-yup....) For those who haven't seen them, check out > http://www.zometool.com/ for some nifty graphics. > > You can get Zometool 3 and Zometool 5 (121 and 242 pieces, > respectively) from the BFI as well, but if you go to Zometool's website, > you can get pieces in the 400-900-1400 range, as well as specific struts or > hubs as add-ons. > > With the Zometool 5 kit, I've built a dome about 2.5' or 3' in > diameter, and am playing around with some modified dome structures. I'm > also eyeing up those expander-kits so I can build larger structures... BFI can order the bigger kits for you if you call them up (They did for me). It costs a little less if you're a member, and I'd just as soon they had their share of the profit anyway. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:05:46 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Re: housing solutiion Comments: To: Robert Conroy In-Reply-To: <199712311323_MC2-2D9E-1526@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII my father was importer of construction material- not any more- not much private business, and he make contracts of ships with cement that weight up to 9000 tons, quite frequently. also he was major importer of wood. these came from Greece- which owned their ships, switerland where the agency bought cement even from russia, Italy for machinary and marbal. in short libya is the land of cemented buildings, marbal floors. tripoli was probalby the most beautiful city in medeteranian if not in the world- it combined the history of 5 civilization. saying all that i am personaly lived poor- this was my tragdy. in west of tripoli lived the americans who worked in the oil company, they live in beautiful villars i recall, it was beautiful times and beautiful deram times that goen so quickly. i check your home page, but i think these things take time. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:59:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Micro Force Subject: Guide to accounting software Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for accounting software for your business? "The Small Busness Guide To Accounting Software" provides valuable information about how to evaluate, select, and implement the right software. To order, send US$39. payable to J. Fuller. Mail to J. Fuller, 98 Liberty Street, Deer Park, NY 11729 USA Visit our web site at - http://homepage.usr.com/b/bammer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:20:49 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DAVID ALLEN TORNHEIM Organization: San Francisco State University Subject: Re: Outrageous (was: things in math books) Kirby Urner (pdx4d@teleport.com) wrote: : My website is .... : Why should I waste trees and do a mass published paper pulp version? Why do I feel skeptical about your sincerity towards caring for the environment? : My push is for "math centers" built around : a "mission control" design, with students each having screens and : keyboards, with a big screen or screens in front. Don't you think all those computers (which are constantly discarded for new models) and all of the paper from the state of the art laser printers will have a much greater impact upon the environment than those "obsolete" textbooks? I read about a study that showed this problem with regard to paper usage in offices, disproving the myth of the paperless society. My personal experience in highly computerized offices confirms the humongous amount of paper wasted, and my experience with people who love books is the reverse (they often exchange the books at used book stores). I sense some commitment to the idea of "progress", by which I mean an endlessly increasing economy with ever more technology and production of consumer goods. This position is directly at odds with care of the environment. -David ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:09:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jonathan B. Thompson" Subject: Tensegrity article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everybody For an interesting discussion on tensegrity as found in nature, see Scientific American, January 1998. Mentions both Fuller and Snelson. A must read. Further reaffirms the truth of their work. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:55:14 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jennifer Wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are in the process of constructing a KeyDome (32 ') shell (which consists of polystyrene panels covered with a layer of concrete). We have completed the polystyrene shell and have the wire mesh reinforcement over it. The rebar insertion and the concrete application still need to be done. This is where we need help. To the best of our knowledge, there is no contractor in our area (Western Pennsylvania) who is "up to the challenge" of applying the concrete. Is there anyone out there who is interested? If so please E-Mail me (Kurt) at wallie@fyi.net for futher details. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:51:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Fw: WEB PAGE ADDRESS Comments: To: Mathmuseum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Ms. Deaner, I apologize for not responding sooner--my life has been a little chaotic lately. In my web site (see below) you should find info about domes in the "Ideas" section under "Icosa", the "Index" section under "geodesic" & "domes", and in the "Links" section under "Shelter/Domes" (if I remember right--hunt around). I'm also forwarding this reply to the Geodesic List (newsletter) that is "gatewayed" to the Geodesic Newsgroup that has about 9000+ readers. Again, please forgive me for being so slow to reply. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Mathmuseum Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Joe S. Moore Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 04:05 PM Subject: Re: Fw: WEB PAGE ADDRESS >Dear Dr. Moore, > > I came across your name while trying to help a high school student do some >research about domes. I am the director of the Goudreau Museum of Mathematics >in New Hyde Park, NY, and am interested in learning more about domes and at the >same time expanding our library. > > I would appreciate any suggestions that you might have. > >Thank you. > >Beth Deaner >.- > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:24:54 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Tensegrity article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jonathan, You wrote: <> That would assume that truth can be determined by whatever is published b= y the established scientific community. I think the article would only reaffirm that the establishment, which turned up their nose at Fuller, ha= s come to the conclusion that their past avenues of research into some kind= of unifying paradim is making little progress and they have started to lo= ok around. = Bob http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/unifiedt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:32:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: Indiana University - Purdue Univeristy At Indianapols,IN Subject: Re: Outrageous (was: things in math books) In-Reply-To: <693qh1$9lo@news.csus.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 9 Jan 1998, DAVID ALLEN TORNHEIM wrote: > Don't you think all those computers (which are constantly discarded > for new models) and all of the > paper from the state of the art laser printers will have a > much greater impact upon the environment than those "obsolete" > textbooks? Actually, where I work we used to use the huge dot matrix printers with the papaer that's like 15X24 or something like that. We are relying more one a laer printer. It fits more info. on smaller paper. It can print smaller characters much more clearly thatn the dot matrix. So it's been my experience that laser printers do make a difference in the amout of paper used/wasted. As far as computers being "constantly' replaced. I know we couldn't afford to constantly replace them. A lot of people whine about having to get new computers because the ones they have are getting outdated. That's not really true. If they meet your needs, then they aren't outdated. Why would someone buy a 300 Mghtz computer if they just wanted to be able to do word processnig at home? I read about a study that showed this problem with regard > to paper usage in offices, disproving the myth of the paperless society. > My personal experience in highly computerized offices > confirms the humongous amount of paper wasted, and my experience > with people who love books is the reverse (they often exchange > the books at used book stores). > Totally paperless? No way. I doubt we'll ever be totally paperless since computers aren't %100 reliable. They are more efficient at many things and have caused many businesses to consume less paper overall. People who love books? Most people I know who love a book keep it for their collection. > I sense some commitment to the idea of "progress", > by which I mean an endlessly increasing economy with > ever more technology and production of consumer goods. > This position is directly at odds with care of the environment. > The idea of a large amount of consumer good isn't at odds with the care of the environment if things are created/designed with the environment in mind. I.e. biodegradable and recycle-able. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:57:48 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: DAVID ALLEN TORNHEIM Organization: San Francisco State University Subject: Re: Outrageous (was: things in math books) Eric Nastav (enastav@bkstore.cserv.iupui.edu) wrote: : As far as computers being "constantly' replaced. I know we couldn't : afford to constantly replace them. A lot of people whine about having to : get new computers because the ones they have are getting outdated. That's : not really true. If they meet your needs, then they aren't outdated. Why : would someone buy a 300 Mghtz computer if they just wanted to be able to : do word processnig at home? I agree with your philosophy and I try hard to abide by it, but this is not how it works in practice, partly because the companies who make computers and software do not want you to think this way, and because they use strategies to make this infeasible. For example, when I designed integrated circuits, we used a tool that took some time to get used to. After a few years, we became very comfortable with it, including all of its bugs, which we learned to work around. But the managers insisted on a new version. The most important reason wasn't to use the new features, but because the company which wrote the software would no longer support the old version. There are other pressure methods, which work well: * new software requires more and more memory and other technology * new software requires upgrading the operating system, which requires upgrading the hardware * intentionally crippling software or hardware so that users will eventually want the expensive version that does not have the problem * stores quickly replace software which is best for older computers with software that is best for new computers * old computers are more difficult to get repaired than new ones, often because parts are not available * the feeling of being obsolete and out of date, through advertising. The public buys into this and becomes impatient with those who are "behind the times". It's an effective peer pressure. People hate feeling left out. Companies don't want people to buy one computer and some software and to be done spending. Recycling and other environmental friendly usage often directly eat into their profits. : They [computers] are more efficient at many : things and have caused many businesses to consume less paper overall. The study I read said the opposite: computers cause MORE paper to be generated, not less. : > I sense some commitment to the idea of "progress", : > by which I mean an endlessly increasing economy with : > ever more technology and production of consumer goods. : > This position is directly at odds with care of the environment. : > : The idea of a large amount of consumer good isn't at odds with the care : of the environment if things are created/designed with the environment in : mind. I.e. biodegradable and recycle-able. : I agree that biodegradable goods and recycling help with the problem and are absolutely essential today. Unfortunately, few goods can be 100% recycled. And producing the FIRST item damages the environment (e.g. the original piece of plastic, before it is recycled). And over-production of biodegradable materials, like meat, can cause serious problems too. Serious environmental organizations will all tell you that the best thing to do is to reduce consumption. That's why we need to take Native Americans and other native societies more seriously--they live(d) in a lifestyle that could last millions of years, when ours can't. -David ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:48:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: Fw: WEB PAGE ADDRESS Comments: cc: SYNERGETICS _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Mathmuseum To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 01:17 PM Subject: Re: Fw: WEB PAGE ADDRESS >Dear Dr. Moore, > > Thank you for your response about geodesic domes. I will be sure to >bookmark your website. We are presently putting up a website here at the >museum, www.mathmuseum.org and I plan on including information about sites for >student research, teacher research, etc. I would be interested in your >suggestions. Thanks again. > >Beth Deaner >Director >Goudreau Museum of Mathematics >info@mathmuseum.org > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:34:04 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: Indiana University - Purdue Univeristy At Indianapols,IN Subject: Re: Outrageous (was: things in math books) In-Reply-To: <695rvc$4l9@news.csus.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 9 Jan 1998, DAVID ALLEN TORNHEIM wrote: > Eric Nastav (enastav@bkstore.cserv.iupui.edu) wrote: > : As far as computers being "constantly' replaced. I know we couldn't > : afford to constantly replace them. A lot of people whine about having to > : get new computers because the ones they have are getting outdated. That's > : not really true. If they meet your needs, then they aren't outdated. Why > : would someone buy a 300 Mghtz computer if they just wanted to be able to > : do word processnig at home? > > I agree with your philosophy and I try hard to abide by it, but this > is not how it works in practice, partly because the companies who make > computers and software do not want you to think this way, and because > they use strategies to make this infeasible. Who do you work for? I have a 90Mghtz Compaq. Compare that to a 300Mghtz machine. I primarily use it for Spreadsheets, Wordprocessing, and data entry on two systems I am linked to. It more than meets my needs. Now I could see hardware manufacturers being in cahoots with software makers and coercing them to design software that requires faster speeds. But that's not I'm seeing. > For example, when I designed integrated circuits, we used a tool that > took some time to get used to. After a few years, we became very > comfortable with it, including all of its bugs, which we learned to > work around. But the managers insisted on a new version. The most > important reason wasn't to use the new features, but because the company > which wrote the software would no longer support the old version. Well, do you compete directly with other companies for for designing integrated circuits. That's not a typical business computer application. The managers insisted on a new version for increased efficiency. Going from 90 to 200Mghtz doesn't make much of a difference in a lot of common software programs. > There are other pressure methods, which work well: > * new software requires more and more memory and other technology This has happened to some extent. Some people are happy with using the old version of a program, though. Newer versions sometimes are harder to learn and have features that aren't used or needed. The program is unnecessarily bloated. It's worth the price if you need all the fancy extras, but many people don't. > * new software requires upgrading the operating system, which > requires upgrading the hardware Not in all cases. > * intentionally crippling software or hardware so that users will > eventually want the expensive version that does not have the > problem > * stores quickly replace software which is best for older computers > with software that is best for new computers Stores keep whatever is selling in stock. The only reason they may be getting software for newer computers , as you say, is if their customers are buying newer computers and showing a demand for newer programs. > * old computers are more difficult to get repaired than new ones, > often because parts are not available Well, it depends on what you call "old". But most computers will last for quite a while. 5-10 years I'd say without needing parts. > * the feeling of being obsolete and out of date, through advertising. > The public buys into this and becomes impatient with those > who are "behind the times". It's an effective peer pressure. > People hate feeling left out. I don't know many people who fall for this. I don't know many people who can AFFORD to fall for this. Buy a new computer every year? > : They [computers] are more efficient at many > : things and have caused many businesses to consume less paper overall. > > The study I read said the opposite: computers cause MORE paper > to be generated, not less. > I find that hard to believe. How would a computer generate MORE paper. You also have to look at it in terms of the proportion of paper to work being done. If the company is more efficient because of the computers, then they can do more business. Other than that, I can't see how computer would create MORE paperwork. > : The idea of a large amount of consumer good isn't at odds with the care > : of the environment if things are created/designed with the environment in > : mind. I.e. biodegradable and recycle-able. > : > I agree that biodegradable goods and recycling help with the problem and > are absolutely essential today. > Unfortunately, few goods can be 100% recycled. And > producing the FIRST item damages the environment (e.g. the > original piece of plastic, before it is recycled). And over-production > of biodegradable materials, like meat, can cause serious problems too. > Serious environmental organizations will all tell you that the best thing > to do is to reduce consumption. That's why we need to take Native > Americans and other native societies more seriously--they live(d) in > a lifestyle that could last millions of years, when ours can't. > Reducing consumption sounds good. I don't know how accurate the figure is; but I had heard that America makes up about 5% of the world's population. But consumes around a third of the world's resources. Earth First-ers and the like may go one step further and suggest that the most effective way to limit consumption is to get rid of the consumers. Native Americans didn't have the population we had. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:00:47 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Outrageous (was: things in math books) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- What does all of this latest talk about computer speed, paper and the like have to do with Fuller ? I think that we started out with a discusssion on how to teach people the math, sci etc that theey neeed to know to function as designers and problem solvers in the centuries to come. Lets get back there. Paulprkosuth@mychoice.net OPINIONS ARE MY OWN Brehm Preparatory School Carbondale IL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 06:20:09 GMT Reply-To: box2321@teleport.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: box2321.com Subject: Re: Tensegrity article Robert Conroy : >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/unifiedt This URL only returns an error, but http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/ seems to work just fine. -T. -- Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:52:54 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Re: Outrageous (was: things in math books) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Paul, You wrote: <> As an alternative to Fuller's Quantum Modules that define a tetrahedron a= nd octahedron, you might check on Ben Iverson's "Sympathetic Vibratory Physics" which deals in what he calls Quantum Mathematics which tie quant= um units to Nature's musical scale. http://www.svpril.com/svpweb39.html = The problem with Fuller's 2 quantum module presentation, is that = it only defines the tetrahedron and octahedron. The problem with Iverson's Quantum Mathematics is that it is 2 dimensional and still only deals with= the tetrahedron and octahedron. = I suggest that you go to a Tau series quantum which describe not only the tetrahedron and the octahedron's part in Nature's structure, but= it describes the underlying structure of all Nature, including the 5 poin= t symetry of the icosahedron, dodecahedron, etc. = http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/molecula.htm By understanding the structure of Nature, one should be able to tune into harmonics of its' primal structure and tap part of its dynamic energy. This would be a nice problem for your students and scientist to tackle in the coming years. Hopefully, at some point, I will even find some time to pursue this avenue. Bob http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepags/robert_conroy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:51:56 -0500 Reply-To: monkey@one.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Organization: OneNet Communications Subject: Question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What did Fuller think (or what does the group think) of Einstein's relativity with respect to his Synergetics? I ask this because of something that's bothered me for a while. Assuming a coincident frame of reference in a vacuum, a photon travelling at the speed of light from one distinct point to another takes a finite time to traverse the distance between them. However from the perspective of the photon, because of time-dialation effects, no time at all has elapsed. All events in the photon's lifetime are coincident - including its creation and destruction. For the photon, nothing exists. This is inconvenient since it implies that the very existence of physical reality itself depends on the frame from which it is being observed, something that I've never seen questioned from anything but a purely philosophical perspective. The only reaction I've had to this in light of the assumption that reality does actually exist is that relativity must break down at the speed of light: relativity holds only for velocities in [0,c). But I belive Fuller said the speed of thought was instantaneous, implying an infinity of thought could exist in zero time. If this holds, then at the speed of light the existence of relativistic frames in [0,c] is supported - if not for physics, then at least for metaphysics. What was Fuller's basis for instantaneous thought in nature? - Dave ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:01:30 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Question... >Assuming a coincident frame of reference in a vacuum... I'm no expert, but I think you just stepped outside of any relativisitic framework with that (Newtonian) assumption. Fuller wrote of Einstein in his NINE CHAINS TO THE MOON, and told a tale of communicating with Einstein about it, who supposedly stated that he never anticipated anything useful coming out of that work. Wink www.winkworks.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:17:26 -0500 Reply-To: monkey@one.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Organization: OneNet Communications Subject: Re: Question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not really too Newtonian; I just wanted to consider a frame in which the observer and the two points were not in motion relative to each other - so that there'd be no arguments about relativistic effects. The bottom line is that to an observer (not moving at the speed of light) a photon traversing the distance d between any two different points must take some amount of finite time (which will be d/c on his clock - or any clock for that matter) to do it. I don't believe relativity denies this... What did Fuller say in NCTTM? - Dave JustWINK wrote: > >Assuming a coincident frame of reference in a vacuum... > > I'm no expert, but I think you just stepped outside of any > relativisitic framework with that (Newtonian) assumption. > > Fuller wrote of Einstein in his NINE CHAINS TO THE MOON, and > told a tale of communicating with Einstein about it, who > supposedly stated that he never anticipated anything useful coming > out of that work. > > Wink > www.winkworks.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:05:20 -0800 Reply-To: bward@metro.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bruce Ward Organization: sometimes� Subject: Re: Question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Anderson wrote: > > Not really too Newtonian; I just wanted to consider a frame in which the > > observer and the two points were not in motion relative to each other - > so that there'd be no arguments about relativistic effects. Still sounds Newtonian. In Einsteinian space, ALL "points" (as yet unresolved event complexes) are ALways in motion relative to each other. It is the conceptual "frame" of "at rest" that went "away". ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:08:53 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Organization: Buffalo Free-Net Subject: Gunite for dome basement/foundation? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 While swapping stories with a friend, he mentioned that his father tried to build a house (years ago) with a basement/foundation of Gunite (sprayed concrete over steel reinforcing wire), like a free-form swimming pool. In their case it failed almost immediately when they kept the basement covered (dry) during a rainstorm -- the rising water table floated the water-tight pool/basement, cracking it. Seemed to me that a round "pool" might make a good basement for a dome -- assuming that one built over gravel with proper drainage! And if the dome ever gives up, you still have a pool . The nice bit is that the only formwork would be at the top, to make sure that the polygon was the right shape to take the dome. Has this been done? Anything written up about it? Best Wishes, -- Doug Doug Milliken ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:38:43 -0500 Reply-To: monkey@one.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Organization: OneNet Communications Subject: Re: Question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok. I give. :o) Imagine there are two points and a photon (travelling at the speed of light) from one to the other. This traversal has some (relativity-determined) duration. Except to the photon, for which the trip (and all other events in the photon's timeline) is instantaneous. Does *anything* exist from the perspective of the photon? What does Fuller/Synergetics say (if anything) about this... - Dave (who wishes he could explain things more clearly) Bruce Ward wrote: > David Anderson wrote: > > > > Not really too Newtonian; I just wanted to consider a frame in which > the > > > > observer and the two points were not in motion relative to each > other - > > so that there'd be no arguments about relativistic effects. > > Still sounds Newtonian. In Einsteinian space, ALL "points" (as yet > unresolved event complexes) are ALways in motion relative to each > other. It is the conceptual "frame" of "at rest" that went "away". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:56:52 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Mitch C. Amiano" Organization: IPass.net Subject: Re: Question... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe Fuller mentions a brief passing with Einstein in Cosmography, his last book. (I can't check this right now because my copy is at work.) If I recall the narrative correctly, the meeting was accidental, on a campus at Princeton or thereabouts. Nearby, one of Fuller's geodesics had been constructed. Fuller's account indicates a remark by Einstein to the effect that the geodesic expressed physically concepts which Einstein thought could never have such a direct effect upon everyday life. Cosmography is full of Fuller's musings about the Einsteinian view of the universe, and of the consequences of failing to accommodate the insights it gives. I highly recommend it. As far as speed of thought is concerned, I don't know of any experiments Fuller may have done other than thought-experiments (pardon the unintended pun). The only possibility I can think of is that Fuller posited (some form or concept of) existance of mind apart from brain/matter. It isn't clear from his writtings if this is evidence of an article of faith in a metaphysical reality (ie 'mind cannot die'), or an expression of a concept of mind as an emergent pattern expressed in the energy events which form in the brain (ie 'the Forbidden Hypothesis'). I think thinking is really pretty slow, though: massively parallel but basically elecrochemical in nature, and communicating with itself over a large but finite and not-indestructable internal connector between the hemispheres; plus, no matter how fast internally, it is all I/O bound not just in speed but in expressiveness. David Anderson wrote: > What did Fuller think (or what does the group think) of Einstein's > relativity with respect to his Synergetics? > > I ask this because of something that's bothered me for a while. Assuming > a coincident frame of reference in a vacuum, a photon travelling at the > speed of light from one distinct point to another takes a finite time to > traverse the distance between them. However from the perspective of the > photon, because of time-dialation effects, no time at all has elapsed. > All events in the photon's lifetime are coincident - including its > creation and destruction. For the photon, nothing exists. This is > inconvenient since it implies that the very existence of physical > reality itself depends on the frame from which it is being observed, > something that I've never seen questioned from anything but a purely > philosophical perspective. > > The only reaction I've had to this in light of the assumption that > reality does actually exist is that relativity must break down at the > speed of light: relativity holds only for velocities in [0,c). But I > belive Fuller said the speed of thought was instantaneous, implying an > infinity of thought could exist in zero time. If this holds, then at the > speed of light the existence of relativistic frames in [0,c] is > supported - if not for physics, then at least for metaphysics. What was > Fuller's basis for instantaneous thought in nature? > > - Dave - Mitch ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:33:38 -0500 Reply-To: monkey@one.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Organization: OneNet Communications Subject: Re: Question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the Cosmography reference; I'm going to try to locate a copy. As for the physical speed of thought, I'm with you; I think Fuller was just waxing metaphysical when he spoke of it. I'm basically just trying to reconcile a nagging regular-physics concern I have in synergetics. - Dave Mitch C. Amiano wrote: > I believe Fuller mentions a brief passing with Einstein in > Cosmography, his > last > book. (I can't check this right now because my copy is at work.) If I > recall > the > narrative correctly, the meeting was accidental, on a campus at > Princeton or > thereabouts. Nearby, one of Fuller's geodesics had been constructed. > Fuller's > account indicates a remark by Einstein to the effect that the geodesic > > expressed > physically concepts which Einstein thought could never have such a > direct > effect > upon everyday life. > > Cosmography is full of Fuller's musings about the Einsteinian view of > the > universe, and of the consequences of failing to > accommodate the insights it gives. I highly recommend it. > > As far as speed of thought is concerned, I don't know of any > experiments Fuller > may have done other than thought-experiments (pardon the unintended > pun). The > only possibility I can think of is that Fuller posited (some form or > concept > of) > existance of mind apart from brain/matter. It isn't clear from his > writtings if > this is evidence of an article of faith in a metaphysical reality (ie > 'mind > cannot die'), or an expression of a concept of mind as an emergent > pattern > expressed in the energy events which form in the brain (ie 'the > Forbidden > Hypothesis'). > > I think thinking is really pretty slow, though: massively parallel but > > basically > elecrochemical in nature, and communicating with itself over a large > but finite > and not-indestructable internal connector between the hemispheres; > plus, no > matter how fast internally, it is all I/O bound not just in speed but > in > expressiveness. > > David Anderson wrote: > > > What did Fuller think (or what does the group think) of Einstein's > > relativity with respect to his Synergetics? > > > > I ask this because of something that's bothered me for a while. > Assuming > > a coincident frame of reference in a vacuum, a photon travelling at > the > > speed of light from one distinct point to another takes a finite > time to > > traverse the distance between them. However from the perspective of > the > > photon, because of time-dialation effects, no time at all has > elapsed. > > All events in the photon's lifetime are coincident - including its > > creation and destruction. For the photon, nothing exists. This is > > inconvenient since it implies that the very existence of physical > > reality itself depends on the frame from which it is being observed, > > > something that I've never seen questioned from anything but a purely > > > philosophical perspective. > > > > The only reaction I've had to this in light of the assumption that > > reality does actually exist is that relativity must break down at > the > > speed of light: relativity holds only for velocities in [0,c). But I > > > belive Fuller said the speed of thought was instantaneous, implying > an > > infinity of thought could exist in zero time. If this holds, then at > the > > speed of light the existence of relativistic frames in [0,c] is > > supported - if not for physics, then at least for metaphysics. What > was > > Fuller's basis for instantaneous thought in nature? > > > > - Dave > > - Mitch ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:26:36 GMT+0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Venter, Dawie" Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office Subject: Re: KeyDome shell In-Reply-To: <199801091652.LAA11674@yoda.fyi.net> Dear Kurt Sorry, I cannot help with the concrete contracting, as I live in South Africa, but I am interested to find out how your project is progressing. Several years ago I also bought the KeyDome plans. I did complete a concrete geodesic dome shell, but not exactly according to the KeyDome system - things worked out pretty well - we hand stacked the shell. Besides the concrete, were there any other problems you encountered with the KeyDome system? Sincerely Dawie > We are in the process of constructing a KeyDome (32 ') shell (which > consists of polystyrene panels covered with a layer of concrete). We have > completed the polystyrene shell and have the wire mesh reinforcement over > it. The rebar insertion and the concrete application still need to be > done. This is where we need help. To the best of our knowledge, there is > no contractor in our area (Western Pennsylvania) who is "up to the > challenge" of applying the concrete. Is there anyone out there who is > interested? > > If so please E-Mail me (Kurt) at wallie@fyi.net for futher details. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:52:23 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Fw: Syn-l: Convergence and Divergence quote Comments: To: Eric Gold MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric, See Kirby Urner's "Links" web page: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/links.html . He has instructions on how to subscribe to several relevant lists, including Geodesic. You should resubscribe using your latest email address. Also, see Pat Salsbury's "Lists" web page: http://www.sculptors.com/lists.html . He runs several lists (newsletters) about specific relevant topics, such as Domesteading, Floating-Cities, Fuel-Cells, etc. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Eric Gold To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 03:16 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Syn-l: Convergence and Divergence quote >joe...i've been a lurker on the geodesic list for some time now. >unfortunately, my computer recently died and i have had to completely >reformat the hard drive, losing all the information i once had about >subscribing to this list. i have also had my work email address >changed, and would like to change the address at which the mail is >sent. could you please let me know how to do this? > >my old address was: minjok38@soback.kornet.nm.kr > >my new address is: minjok08@soback.kornet.nm.kr. > >please reply to my new address. > > >thank you for you time and assistance, as well as the wonderful work you >do for the list. > >eric gold > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:30:05 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Dead status and the golden mean In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The blue washed sea transparent Reflection, this is i say one element Of four that composed the world. Then we laughed histerically, it Was joys evening- evening made For laughter and forgetting We all came from the water And shall sink there but befor I forgive i must touch the wound. Terra ingonita mastero of what Resonance you didnt know mastero Of italian letters that made The tongue vibrate like musical Cords in unknown conserto.... Oh Mestro i forgave your fat Elegance and the precision that I remember with curiousity... Everything was precious nearer To the golden scale and we young Boys just laughed and laughed And manytimes we laughed inside No one knows how many we missed in Counting as friends and how many We couldnt love because love was not Counted, play was our strenght and Then we died. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:54:17 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Re: question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i think fuller said intution is instantanuous and not thought, the brain is laging machanism we have to wait to realize and what is approaching is- beautiful creative statment in the end of synergetic- fuller is know for making wild statment to attract pure sensetive souls like me. put thik of this in the future we meet again nosimoltnaiuously overlaping like modern painting that uses ovelaping fragments i dont like Picaso but is the only one i remeber that have fragmenting paingting that is ovelaped partly and partly commi\unicating in fuller case the coceptuality is in timespace and not on canvac or cardboard. ----------------------------- synergggggggggy 2+2 = 5 ----------------------------- i sent mail yesterday about warehouses but i didnt see it arriving anyone seen it, or is it common to lose emails in the noisy net. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:36:27 +0900 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Gold Organization: Minjok Leadership Academy Subject: Re: Fw: Syn-l: Convergence and Divergence quote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit joe..thanx for the help. will take care of it this morning. eric gold ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:00:06 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Thu Jan 15 00:00:03 PST 1998. If you are tired of receiving this message twice per month, and are reading bit.listserv.geodesic through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. (And you don't want to look like a jerk having everyone see your "SUB GEODESIC John Q. Public" command! ;^) ) This list is also linked to USENET in the group bit.listserv.geodesic If you want to receive copies of everything you send to the list, use the command SET GEODESIC REPRO. If you DON'T want copies, use SET GEODESIC NOREPRO. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC You should receive a confirmation note in the mail when you have been successfully removed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LIST ARCHIVES: - Reference.COM has begun archiving this list as of: Jan. 4, 1997 - Searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=GEODESIC@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu And of course, Listserv itself is keeping archives of the list, dating back to June, 1992. Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:35:42 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: palir Subject: Re: Fw: PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- > From: Neven Bandalovic > To: Josip Anzulovic > Cc: Stipe Sumic ; Srdan Srdelic = ; Jovica Popovic ; Sandra = Modrusan ; Igor Draskovic > Subject: Fwd: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > Date: 1998. sije=E8anj 15 10:26 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:09:34 PST > From: Neven Bandalovic > To: nbandal@fesb.hr > Cc: abulic@fesb.hr, abulic@hotmail.com, isormaz@fesb.hr > Subject: Fwd: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >From isormaz@fesb.hr Tue Jan 13 04:55:00 1998 > >Received: (from isormaz@localhost) > > by adria.fesb.hr (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA29700; > > Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:46:54 +0100 (MET) > >Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:46:53 +0100 (MET) > >From: Ica > >To: William Gillan > >cc: Vic Ullom , Vanja Glavan , > > Stipe Sumic , Niki Deskovic=20 > , > > Samija Hrvoje , Frane Peko=20 > , > > Neven Bandalovic , > > alen bulic > >Subject: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > >Message-ID: > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII > > > > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:26:01 +0100 (MET) > >From: Ana Bucan > >To: Ivo Simic > >Cc: Vinko Gluic , > > Vedrana Veocic , > > Indira Sormaz , > > Sandra Modrusan , > > Mario Varnica , > > Zoran Civadelic > >Subject: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > > > > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:09:09 +0100 (MET) > >From: Ivica Soric > >To: -- ana bucan , ivica bojcic , > > drazen kerzan , dzevad lugic=20 > , > > frane bebic , goran beram=20 > , > > hrvoje dujmic , ivana buklijas=20 > , > > ivana plazonic , ivo baras = , > > ivan bucan , josko purko=20 > , > > sinisa kosmos , > > miljenko bartulovic , nikica plazibat=20 > , > > tea beram , gorana jelic > >Subject: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > > > > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:57:55 +0100 (MET) > >From: Nikola Godinovic > >To: sury@adria.fesb.hr > >Subject: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > > > > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:14:04 +0100 (MET) > >From: Zeljko Mandic > >To: ngod@adria.fesb.hr, suri@adria.fesb.hr, robert.orlovic@vfesb.hr > >Subject: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > > > > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:03:51 +0100 (MET) > >From: Ana Mandic > >To: Christian Mangold , > > Georgios Tsoukos , > > Ivana Fistanic , > > Jan Joost van Marle , > > Jostein Moe , > > Mariano Gonzales , > > Nardi Nardelli , > > Nina Sliwa , > > Zeljko Mandic > >Subject: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > > > > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:48:43 +0100 (MET) > >From: Klaudijo Miksic > >To: Dinko Anzulovic > >Cc: predrag bogicevic , > > Igor Dekovic , Tijana Vodopija=20 > , > > Zarko Ticinovic , > > rajkovic zeljka , > > kristijan perkovic , > > Marija Pavkov , > > nardelli nardi , > > Modun Edo , Mirjana Rakuljic = , > > Roman Miler , "marijana (jure)"=20 > , > > Ana Mandic , maletic marin=20 > , > > vjeko krajinovic , > > irina s , Igor Cikotic=20 > , > > goranovic vesna , > > Goran Stefanovski , Igor Espek , > > Zlata Dolacek , Bosnic Irena=20 > , > > aiesec > >Subject: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:06:09 +0100 > >From: =3D?US-ASCII?Q?Mario_KAUZLARI=3DC6?=3D > >To: IAESTE odbor OSIJEK > >Cc: "William R. GENTER" , > > Stefan HIRSCH , > > Richard Steven RADFORD <130841.94@swan.ac.uk>, > > =3D?US-ASCII?Q?Mladen_MILJKOVI=3DC6?=3D , > > Miroslav BLANDA , > > =3D?US-ASCII?Q?Mario_SPAJI=3DC6?=3D , > > Marina HAIMAN , > > =3D?US-ASCII?B?S2xhdWRpam8gTUlLiknG?=3D = , > > Ivan TURK , > > =3D?US-ASCII?Q?Goran_ROGULJI=3DC6?=3D , > > Erich PISCHLER , > > Don SHANNON , Dejan MRACKOVSKI=20 > , > > =3D?US-ASCII?B?RGFya28gQk+OT1ZJxg=3D=3D?=3D = , > > Daniela HARTL , > > =3D?US-ASCII?B?QmxhnmVua2EgSEFEUk9WScY=3D?=3D=20 > , > > =3D?US-ASCII?Q?Aleksandar_MARKOVI=3DC6?=3D > >Subject: Fw: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Danijela Plecko > >To: kmario@most.gfos.hr > >Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 2:04 PM > >Subject: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) > >> > >>---------- Forwarded message -------- > >>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:52:30 -0100 (GMT) > >>From: matko penava > >>To: Danijela Plecko > >>Subject: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd)> > >> > >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:11:21 +0100 (MET) > >>From: Branimir Pejakovic > >>To: Gabrijela Colak , > >> Anita Markota , > >> Barbara Golubicic , > >> Hrkac Tomislav , > >> Knezevic Tihomir , > >> Vuksic Antun , > >> Svarbic Davor , > >> Lovric Hrvoje , Vukovic Ivan , > >> Krizan Snezana , > >> Zagorec Jasna , > >> Pintar Mario , > >> Vukovac Vedran , > >> Rakusa Dalibor , > >> Montel Nermin , > >> Litvic Darko , > >> Kovacic Ivana , > >> Dekovic Visnja , > >> Cacic Petar , Penava Matko=20 > , > >> Katic Nino , > >> Felismino Ligia , > >> Simurina Jurica , > >> Ilisevic Narcisa , boris@adria.fesb.hr > >>Subject: MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE - PLEASE READ THIS !!!! > >> > = >>%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%= %%%% > >%%% > >>MOLIM VAS PROCITAJTE SVI OVO =3D=3D=3D=3D>VAZNO JE<=3D=3D=3D I = SALJITE DALJE!=20 > PRITISNITE > >> U PINE-U TIPKU F I SALJITE SVIMA KOJE ZNATE > = >>%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%= %%%% > >%%% > >> >>>>BATTLE AGAINST THE CANCER<<<<< > >>> > *****PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO HELP THIS LITTLE GIRL***** > >>> > > >>> > Dear All, > >>> > > >>> > I just received this mail from a friend of mine in my > >>> > College. Please respond to it. It will just mean = employing=20 > a > >>> > little bit of time and won't cost you a penny. All it = needs=20 > is > >>> > the heart for you to send this mail. PLEASE pass this = mail =20 > on > >>> > to everybody you know. It is the request of a little girl = > who > >>> > will soon leave this world as she has been a victim of = the > >>> > terrible disease called CANCER. Thank you for your = effort, > >>> > this isn't a chain letter, but a choice for all of us to = > help > >>> > save a little girl that's dying of a serious and fatal = form=20 > of > >>> > cancer. > >>> > > >>> > Please send this to everyone you know...or don't know. = This > >>> > little girl has 6 months left to live, and as her dying =20 > wish, > >>> > she wanted to send a letter telling everyone to live = their > >>> > life to the fullest, since she never will. She'll never = > make > >>> > it to prom, graduate from high school, or get married and = > have > >>> > a family of her own. By you sending this to as many = people=20 > as > >>> > possible, you can give her and her family a little hope, > >>> > because with every name that this is sent to, The = American > >>> > Cancer Society will donate 3 cents per name to her=20 > treatment > >>> > and recovery plan. > >>> > > >>> > One guy sent this to 500 people !!!! So, I know that we=20 > can > >>> > send it to at least 5 or 6. Come on you guys.... and if=20 > you're > >>> > too selfish to take 10-15 minutes scrolling this and > >>> > forwarding it to EVERYONE, then you are one sick person. = > Just > >>> > think, it could be you one day.It's not even your = $money$, > >>> > just your time!!! > >>> > > >>> > PLEASE PASS ON > > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:32:49 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Dante and Orange In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII arancia dela fucco la steso como polverso vino bottiglia, como arancia webster parola la steso como particolarita in presto matine virtu` p[oetry is history in transparent Plato forms, so in short peotry is Plato forms in history.... Plato is beautiful name. hot from the inferno when Dante in canto II in Purgatory writs " the sun by now o`er that horizon`s rim was sinking, whose meridian circles stands with its mid arch above jeruslem" well i dont understand it, but this reminds me of 1000 night and night and how they kept the people from knowing numbers- tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:52:14 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: Indiana University - Purdue Univeristy At Indianapols,IN Subject: Re: Fw: PLEASE READ THIS !!!! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801151240.NAA19625@alf.tel.hr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, palir wrote: > > is > > >>> > the heart for you to send this mail. PLEASE pass this mail > > on > > >>> > to everybody you know. It is the request of a little girl > > who > > >>> > will soon leave this world as she has been a victim of the > > >>> > terrible disease called CANCER. Thank you for your effort, > > >>> > this isn't a chain letter, but a choice for all of us to > > help > > >>> > save a little girl that's dying of a serious and fatal form > > of > > >>> > cancer. > > >>> > > > >>> > Please send this to everyone you know...or don't know. This > > >>> > little girl has 6 months left to live, and as her dying > > wish, > > as > > >>> > possible, you can give her and her family a little hope, > > >>> > because with every name that this is sent to, The American > > >>> > Cancer Society will donate 3 cents per name to her > > treatment > > >>> > and recovery plan. > > >>> > > > you're OK, I don't get it. How does forwarding this letter around the internet get the American Cancer Society to suddenly have money to donate to this person. If they have the money to donate, shouldn't they give it to her regardless of whether or not some letter is being sent to a lot of people on the internet. Are the people who have letters being sent around the internet somehow more worthy of American Cancer Society funds? Any comments/ideas? Eric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:47:09 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: SQuick2653 Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: J.D. Hanawalt Powder Diffraction Award Nominations International Centre for Diffraction Data - www.icdd.com J.D. Hanawalt Powder Diffraction Award Nominations The International Centre for Diffraction Data is seeking nominees for the 1998 J.D. Hanawalt Powder Diffraction Award. The award is presented every three years for an important, recent contribution to the field of powder diffraction. The award consists of a citation and a cash gift of $1,000. The award recipient is expected to submit an abstract and present a paper on the work being recognized at an appropriate Powder Diffraction / Crystallographic Meeting. Recipient's travel expenses to the meeting will be provided. Work eligible for consideration must have been published after 1 January 1990. The selection committee welcomes suggestions, nominations, and documentation of accomplishments for possible recipients through 15 February 1998. Contact: Camden R. Hubbard - hubbardcr@ornl.gov Chairman Hanawalt Award Selection Committee c/o International Centre for Diffraction Data 12 Campus Boulevard Newtown Square, PA 19073-3273, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:40:59 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Corringie Aboriginal Settlement Domes URL Comments: To: wcroft@west.com.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William, Thanks for the update info. I'm updating my "Links" section right now--should be through in a few days. I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to the Geodesic list and through it's gateway to the Geodesic newsgroup. Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: wcroft@west.com.au To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 09:23 PM Subject: Corringie Aboriginal Settlement Domes URL >The updated URL for the Corringie Dome's (Wilja's) is >http://www.west.com.au/corringie/ > >Yours in 4d > >William Croft >------------------------------------------ >WEST ONLINE - Internet Service Provider >http://www.west.com.au/ >"William Croft" >------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:19:32 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: anthony kalenak Subject: Domes in the Movies Comments: To: domesteading@sculptors.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic domes in them. Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" The two I watched were: Slaugherhouse 5 Silent Running Can anyone think of any others ? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:44:59 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BUCKMINSTER FULLER BIBLIOGRAPHY: FILMS ABOUT OR RELEVANT TO HIS WORK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 1965 OUR WORLD 2000,MCHALE, JOHN;ORG ? CITY ?, COUNTRY? 15 MIN; COLOR; GLOBAL Historical Population Growth ----------------- 1969 World of Buckminster Fuller, Snyder, Robert; Masters & Masterworks PROD, Pacific Palisades, CA; 85 min; Color PRIMER OF UNIVERSE; Snyder, Jaime; CHELSEA HOUSE; City?, -?, U. S. A.; 16MM Color (AVAILABLE BFI); Geom ------------------------------ 1970 Breathing Together: Revolution of the Electric Family; Author? Morley Markson & Associates; city?, Country? Film: mentions RBF Expo '67 Construction; Robert Bryan Environmental Communications; Venice, CA, USA Slides The Future Isn't What It Used to Be; S. Chodorov; CBS-TV; location? Camera 3 series (Video aired 9-13; Mentions RBF) ------------------------------- 1971 Every Man His Own Medici; Robert Snyder; CBS-TV; location? Camera 3 series (mentions RBF; Video aired 7-11) --------------------------------- 1972 Geometric Shapes author? Ontario Educational Communications Authority; location? Film; geodesic domes Slaughterhouse Five; Author ? PRODUCER ? Hollywood, CA, USA; Features Single Family Domes SILENT RUNNING; Author ? PRODUCER ? CITY?, _?, U. S. A.; Features Huge Greenhouse Domes ---------------------- 1973 Buckminster Fuller on SPACESHIP EARTH; Snyder, Robert; ROBERT SNYDER FILMS; Los Angeles, CA, USA; DESIGN Primer of the Universe; author? University-at-Large Programs, Inc; location? Film; RBF & domes ----------------------- 1974 Strategies for the Future; author? Paul Feyling Productions; location? Film; RBF & domes ------------------------- 1976 THE HUMAN SCENARIO; Cook Labs Teaching Resources Films; Mt. Kisco, NY, USA; 4 Filmstrips about RBF The Educational STOPOVER; Cook Labs Teaching Resources Films; Mt. Kisco, NY, USA; Filmstrip about BF Modeling the Universe; Jaime Snyder; Pyramid Films; Santa Monica, CA, USA; 16mm, 14 min, Color; about Synergetics ----------------------- 1977 Buckminster Fuller-Geodesic Man; author? Aids of Cape Cod, Inc; South Yarmouth, Mass, USA; Filmstrip; Mentions Fuller Reflections: R.Buckminster Fuller; Snyder, Robert & Jaime; US Information Agency; Washington, DC, USA; 90-min; Color ------------------------ 1979 Geodesic Structures, the Shape of the Future; Bottom Line Productions; Cathedralite Domes, California, USA; Film ------------------------- 1980 Mathematical Relationships. Geometric Shapes; author? TV Ontario; Chapel Hill, NC, USA; Video; geodesic domes --------------------------- 1985 INTRO TO R.BUCKMINSTER FULLER; AUTHOR ? BUCKMINSTER FULLER INSTITUTE, Santa Barbara, CA, USA BIOGRAPHICAL FILM OF BUCKMINSTER FULLER, BFI Staff ? BUCKMINSTER FULLER INSTITUTE, Santa Barbara, CA, USA; film ------------------------- 1986 CRAZY MOON; AUTHOR UNK; ORGANIZATION ? CITY?, CA, U. S. A.; DOMES, LARGE, EXPO '67 DOME **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: anthony kalenak Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 09:19 PM Subject: Domes in the Movies I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic domes in them. Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" The two I watched were: Slaugherhouse 5 Silent Running Can anyone think of any others ? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:37:55 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Merc Martinelli Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not a movie per se, but Northern Exposure featured a dome... mm At 11:19 PM 1/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. >I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by >coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic >domes in them. > >Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up >with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > >The two I watched were: > Slaugherhouse 5 > Silent Running > >Can anyone think of any others ? > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:52:19 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: HILL Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies In-Reply-To: <199801160519.VAA18974@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, anthony kalenak wrote: > I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. > I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by > coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic > domes in them. > > Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up > with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > > The two I watched were: > Slaugherhouse 5 > Silent Running > > Can anyone think of any others ? > logan's run, i think in the beginning sequence. stephen hill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:55:44 -0600 Reply-To: jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jim Nugent (the elder)" Organization: Digital Art & Design Solutions Subject: Domes in the Movies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1965 OUR WORLD 2000,MCHALE, JOHN;ORG ? CITY ?, COUNTRY? 15 MIN; COLOR; GLOBAL Historical Population Growth -------------------------- Here's some more information on the above listed entry. It was produced by the "World Resources Inventory (WRI) Project," which was headed up by John McHale. WRI was located in Carbondale, Illinois and shared office space with Buckminister Fuller. The film is a short animated film that graphically shows the relationship between energy usage per capita and world population for seven (If I remember rightly) geographic areas from the year zero to the year 2,000. Naturally, the North Americans and Europeans have the most "energy slaves" per person. A Southern Illinois University Grad student coordinated the film, Dale Carlson, a SIU design student did much of the research on energy usage, I did the artwork, and the SIU film unit did the animation and editing. I think the film won a CINE Golden Eagle award and I was told that it was shown around the world by the United States Information Agency. I also remember hearing that there was some restriction on showing it in the U.S. because of the USIA having some rights to it. The film showed how some folks were using far more than their "share" of the world's deposits of fossil fuels, a topic that became very hot in the 70's and still hasn't been resolved today. Gas at my station is only 98 cents, this week. The film was an animated graph that used sticky press-apply signal dots stuck on no-glare glass to indicate population and energy use. We shot the film in reverse, taking off some dots and changing the year counter. Naturally, a Dymaxion world map was under the glass. A very early example of the "World Game." I've got some black and white still shots from the film somewhere, maybe I'll post one of them to my web site. Jim Nugent -------------------------------------------------- Jim Nugent 2309 Blackhawk Road Springfield, Illinois 62702-1369 U.S.A. 217-525-6704 jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu http://www.fgi.net/~jnugent/ -------------------------------------------------- In dwelling, live close to the ground. In thinking, keep to the simple. In conflict, be fair and generous. In governing, don't try to control. In work, do what you enjoy. In family life, be completely present. Tao Te Ching ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:55:05 GMT Reply-To: box2321@teleport.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: box2321.com Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies anthony kalenak : >Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up >with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > >The two I watched were: > Slaugherhouse 5 > Silent Running > >Can anyone think of any others ? Silent Running Phase 5 (I think... psychic ant SF movie) -- _________________________________________ | | | | | | | | | www.teleport.com/ | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> | ~box2321/go.htm | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo | box2321@teleport.com ----------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:10:22 -0800 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I almost hate to post this, but the spaceship in Mystery Science Theater is composed of pentagons and hexagons. "Where's Crow?!?" anthony kalenak wrote: > > I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. > I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by > coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic > domes in them. > > Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up > with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > > The two I watched were: > Slaugherhouse 5 > Silent Running > > Can anyone think of any others ? -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:31:29 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck Knight Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Comments: To: box2321@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > anthony kalenak : > >Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up > >with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > > > >The two I watched were: > > Slaugherhouse 5 > > Silent Running > > > >Can anyone think of any others ? Well, two spring to mind. The Dr. Who series frequently used domes...geodesic and otherwise...especially for the Dalek constructs, and for many "good guy" races too. And, of course, the other is "Forbidden Planet." Dr. Moebius' home is a lovely dome, and featured what appeared to be a central mast similar to Bucky's Dymaxion homes. -- Chuck Knight ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:04:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Thomas L. Billings" Organization: Inst. for Teleoperated Space Development Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies In article , HILL wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, anthony kalenak wrote: > > > I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. > > I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by > > coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic > > domes in them. > > > > Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up > > with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > > > > The two I watched were: > > Slaugherhouse 5 > > Silent Running > > > > Can anyone think of any others ? > > > logan's run, i think in the beginning sequence. Did the "Thunderdome" in one of the "Mad Max" movies have a geodesic structure? Regards, Tom Billings -- Institute for Teleoperated Space Development itsd1@teleport.com(Tom Billings) ITSD's web site is at, http://www.teleport.com/~itsd1/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:17:05 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: anthony kalenak Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I don't remember exactly, hut I think "Thunderdomes" were reticulated (concentric minor circles). I/\'ll have to give it a look. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:19:25 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nyrath the nearly wise Organization: the Praeternatural Tower Subject: Tensegrity in Science Fiction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I came up with an amusing application of Fuller and Snelson's tensegrity principle once while reading a science fiction novel. In one of E.E."Doc" Smith's LENSMAN novels, the interstellar battlefleets try to create titanic structures with the ships. They have "tractor beams", which will attract a ship or other object, and "pressor beams", which will repel a ship or other object. They will form the ships into titanic cones, or cylinders, depending on the battle tactics. I looked at that and said: "Hmmmmmmm, tractor beam = tension member, pressor beam = compression member, the structures must be a tensegrity!" -- * A B S I T * I N V I D I A * V E R B O ** I D E M * S O N A N S * +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | WINCHELL CHUNG http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/home.html | | Nyrath the nearly wise nyrath@clark.net | +---_---+---------------------[ SURREAL SAGE SEZ: ]--------------------------+ | /_\ | It's a particle! No, it's a wave! No, it's a dessert topping! | | <(*)> | | |/_/|\_\| | | //|\\ | | +///|\\\+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:49:40 -0500 Reply-To: ANTONERG@worldnet.att.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Dunaj Organization: Erg inc. Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas L. Billings wrote: > Did the "Thunderdome" in one of the "Mad Max" movies have a geodesic structure? No it did not. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:27:01 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: Virtual dome International incorporated< In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this a copy right- only a joke- but anyone had credintial in building a coorporation, we might who knows. a skdetch- ideas - brainstorme- later in the year-- we can do more if we know our problems and how to think what to do, and how to relax etc, etc.. Virtual dome International corp: assets: mangment team: total sales: distrubution system: major regions: customer made order customer service distribution technonolgy advisers: number of customers predition: prototype domes feet - class a b c d small type medium type warhouses and larger type investment shares 10 shares 100 dollars 100 100 dollars this type of shares are not for profit, this taking risks for the whole. ideas after reading one chapter in marketing: tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:03:43 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: palir Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a geodesic dome in "Contact". It's actually radome, covering = the equipment in the center of a huge satelite dish. By the way, in the beggining of "Chain Reaction" there is a Dymaxion = World Map. Igor Draskovic ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 02:31:07 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JustWINK Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Outrageous (was: things in math books) >How would a computer generate MORE paper? It isn't that computers generate more paperwork, but almost everyone I know who is using them agrees that we collectively waste more paper. For reasons like: *Despite the WYSIWYG concept, there is enough difference between the screen and a printout that you frequently find problems on the hard copy you didn't see before. And, it is fairly well known that proofreading on todays monitors is less efficient (in human terms) than looking at paper. Want to read WAR AND PEACE on your monitor? I suppose you could... *Various software flaws end up sending extra pages through a printer unexpectedly. I remember my dot matrix printers burning through page after page because I had done something or other. Now my laser printer does it, though less. *We now have information available that wasn't available before and sometimes we print it out for no good reason. Spreadsheets are especially notorious for this. However, I believe this trend is about to turn the other way. Not because of a paperless office, but because paper costs money, printing costs money and time, and emerging technologies will unexpectedly alter the situation. For instance, a company is exploring a device that removes toner from a printed page. Put your last version in, peel the toner off and put the next version on. But toner costs money, too. I am wondering if it will be able to remove only the toner that is wrong and selectively replace it. Don't see why not. Other, unanticipated technologies will surely quell this trend, and soon. I imagine we are just at or past the peak of this effect and will begin to notice less paper waste associated with the modern "digital" office. But then, I could be wrong... Perhaps in fifty years we will be wandering through tiny aisles snaking through tall stacks of paper that is flying out of printers faster than we can haul it off. I am reminded of the wonderful scene in Gilliam's BRAZIL where the hero is consumed in a swirl of flying waste paper. Wink www.winkworks.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:29:37 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rowan McIvor Organization: University of Queensland Subject: Bucky 'n' Hollywood This talk of movies has me interested. What would a movie of Bucky's life be like were it made today and given the whole Hollywood treatment? Certainly his story has all the elements of a fantastic saga. A man with a vision, a rags to riches(of sorts)story, a period drama (hollywood just loves to recreate things past, think of the delight they'd have building the props for this movie!) a scandal complete with exciting car crash and court scenes, famous people of history(Einstein for one), a truly worldwide scale plot, an idealized speech pieced together from Bucky's real life performances that would move the heart of the most cynical movie-goer, a touch of the spirituality that Bucky carried with him. .....This would be a truly astounding movie, especially for the 95% of people who have not the slightest clue who he is or what he gave the world. Then you realise how much interest this would spark in domes. A GOOD movie could, in one season do more for geodesics than the last twenty years of work ever did. Movies affect people. They get coverage in the form of reviews in every corner of the world in any paper that has an 'Arts' section. The name of Buckminster Fuller would be everywhere and people would start thinking "just who was this guy?". Of this I have no doubt at all. I'd love to see this movie. I wish it existed. So... any of you guys out there know a Hollywood producer? hehe :-) Rowan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:41:41 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: statistics only for refrence- dont read if you dont like numbers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i let this notes go to the archives: from a book 1975 it take 2 1/2 years to get automated warhouse- whaerhouse hightnow can reach 37 meter high- and it is common to find 18-21 m. classification of stocks into fast and slow movers, keeping the fast closer for access. less than pallet load picked in batch of 20 or so at a time. in 1974 400-500 automated or semautomated system existed in europe, 200 of them in W.germany, while UK had 40. one estimate a person need 1/2 ton of good staff in Uk. by 1972 there were 32,000 selfservice groceries oulets. 5000 sold 40% of all grociereis. supermarket idea was extended ot electric goods, textiles. locating in sites where turnover can be most rapidaly increaed. cost of distripution 3%-40% of sales value in U.K 8ton turck make .5% of totla vehicles 1 1/2 make 7% = = fork truck drivers musts be physically fit, alert, good eyes site. portal warhouse 60 meter meter expanse is the most common type of roof. to stock a week supply to supermarket need 6 max size articulated vehicles blocking the whole street- i think this on one day, or spreading them the whole week. total tonnage by road in the Uk 1960 1973 1.2 billion ton 1.7 billion ton there were 600,000 parcel of up 22 lb went each day in england. there were 90,000 manf, 20,000 wholsales establishment. 18 million households. 25,000 post reception points. the use of instant polaroid 103 for driver liscence. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:05:06 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dan Vogel Subject: Ephemeralization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi everybody. This isn't a dome message, (its a Fuller question), but I hope that's ok. I'm currently working on a research paper on Fuller, so I may be coming back here several times in the next month. But this is just sort of an open question that's been bugging me. Bucky uses his concept of "ephemeralization" a lot. Its quite nice, but I forget its origins. I figured he either made up the word (or someone else did for him, like Dymaxion, which he also uses a lot), or it seriously is a word for the concept. Well, I was in my local library, and there was a dictionary sprawled out, so I looked up "ephemeralization". Of course, they don't have -ization as a word, but they have ephemeral. >From the Merriam-Webster WWWebster's dictionary (www.m-w.com): Main Entry: 1ephemeral Pronunciation: i-'fem-r&l, -'fEm-; -'fe-m&-, -'fE- Function: adjective Etymology: Greek ephEmeros lasting a day, daily, from epi- + hEmera day Date: 1576 1 : lasting one day only 2 : lasting a very short time synonym see TRANSIENT - ephemerally /-r&-lE/ adverb Now, this is a cool word (I'm a fan of Transient stuff...) but I don't see a direct relationship between 'Transient' and 'more-with-less'. Is there a connection? Is there a difference between ephemeralization and ephemeral, or is this just a coincidence? Does anyone know the origin of ephemeralization? This has been bugging me. I haven't finished reading all of Fuller's stuff, and I suppose the answer probably lies somewhere in there, but maybe someone more familiar with the solution can enlighten me first. R. Buckminster Fuller is an incredible person. The more I learn, the more I like and become more interested in knowing more. I envy those who knew him... dMv ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:44:56 -0600 Reply-To: jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jim Nugent (the elder)" Organization: Digital Art & Design Solutions Subject: Ephemeralization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bucky uses his concept of "ephemeralization" a lot. Its quite nice, but > I forget its origins. I figured he either made up the word (or someone > else did for him, like Dymaxion, which he also uses a lot), or it > seriously is a word for the concept. dMv Bucky used ephemeralization in the sense of doing more and more with less and less. Gold was replaced by paper money which was replaced by checks and drafts, which were replaced by ledger entries, which were replace by e-cash. . . Pony Express was replaced by telegraphs which were replaced by telephones which were replaced by microwave transmission which was replaced by satellite. . . Abacus, vacuum tubes, transistors, integrated circuits, LSI, VLSI, microprocessors. . . The physical substance is replaced more and more by thoughts and ideas or patterns. Etherealization might have been a better word choice. -------------------------------------------------- Jim Nugent jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu http://www.fgi.net/~jnugent/ -------------------------------------------------- In dwelling, live close to the ground. In thinking, keep to the simple. In conflict, be fair and generous. In governing, don't try to control. In work, do what you enjoy. In family life, be completely present. Tao Te Ching ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:06:48 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: anthony kalenak Subject: Re: Bucky 'n' Hollywood Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) How about Dustin Hoffman in the role of Bucky? Above all it needs a good screen play. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:44:23 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gordon Smith Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Joe, Have you discovered the PBS page on Thinking Out Loud? The URL is http://www.pbs.org/wnet/bucky.cgi Best wishes to all, Gordon Smith ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:49:30 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: The Butterfly Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Comments: To: amkalenak@webtv.net Comments: cc: domesteading@sculptors.com In-Reply-To: <199801160519.VAA18974@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net> (amkalenak@webtv.net) -From: amkalenak@webtv.net (anthony kalenak) -Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:19:32 -0600 - -I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. -I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by -coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic -domes in them. - -Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up -with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" - -The two I watched were: - Slaugherhouse 5 - Silent Running - -Can anyone think of any others ? - - This wasn't a "featured" dome, but in "Twins", Arnold Schwarzenegger was raised in a light, airy, white geodesic on a gorgeous tropical island. And in the movie he turned out to be intelligent, well-read, in excellent physical condition (of course), and well-rounded. Dunno if we can draw any causality from that, but I'd be willing to try living in a dome on a tropical island for a few years to test the hypothesis! ;^) -- Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- "The more things stay, the more they change the sane." Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:59:37 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Ephemeralization Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Dan Vogel wrote: >> >>Bucky uses his concept of "ephemeralization" a lot. Its quite nice, but >>I forget its origins. I figured he either made up the word (or someone >>else did for him, like Dymaxion, which he also uses a lot), or it >>seriously is a word for the concept. >> > >>Now, this is a cool word (I'm a fan of Transient stuff...) but I don't see >>a direct relationship between 'Transient' and 'more-with-less'. >> >>Is there a connection? Is there a difference between ephemeralization and >>ephemeral, or is this just a coincidence? Does anyone know the origin of >>ephemeralization? >> >> This has been bugging me. I haven't finished reading all of >>Fuller's stuff, and I suppose the answer probably lies somewhere in there, >>but maybe someone more familiar with the solution can enlighten me first. >> > > >I made some notes about this as part of a project of my own. Maybe these would >help? > >EPHEMERALIZATION > >Fuller arrived at this concept in 1922 (see Reader, p.16) and devotes a >chapter to it in Nine Chains. The term denotes the "principle of doing ever >more with ever less weight, time and energy per each given level of functional >performance". (Synergetics 2.792.52) > >Critical Path (p.232) defines it as:"the invisible chemical, metallurgical, >and electronic production of ever-more-efficient and satisfyingly effective >performance with the investment of ever-less weight and volume of materials >per unit function formed or performed". > >Ephemeralization is a fruit of synergy (N.B., it has nothing to do with the >production of ephemera, as Martin Pawley imagines in his book on Fuller: in >one sentence this author manages to misconstrue both of the above key concepts >(p.174).). > >It is an important principle for Fuller because of his concern with >performance and resources. > >Computers are obvious examples of ephemeralization. Today's pocketful of >computing power was a roomful not long ago. The extreme case of all this is >that of Quantum Devices. > >Perhaps if you take a long enough view, then most artifacts can be seen as >ephemera. > > >Good luck with the research. > > Paul Taylor The Blowpipes Trombone Trio http://www.trombone.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:06:30 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dev T Britto Organization: The University of British Columbia Subject: Re: Bucky 'n' Hollywood In-Reply-To: <69vrnd$agg$1@nargun.cc.uq.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A dramatization of Bucky's life is something that I have fantasized about for many years. I agree it could have all the elements of high drama that movie goers have come to expect...I even made a few notes years ago toward the writing of a screenplay (ah, the optimism of youth). I recall being inspired by the film "Tucker", a true story about a man who dared to challenge the automobile industry. It was gripping...but a story about Fuller could be even more so. Dev Britto ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:08:17 -0600 Reply-To: jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jim Nugent (the elder)" Organization: Digital Art & Design Solutions Subject: Domes in the News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An 80 (my guesstimate) foot diameter full sphere geodesic structure encloses a 39 foot diameter acrylic sphere in the world's first heavy-water neutrino detector being built 1 mile below Sudbury, Ontario. Enter the following URL in your browser for a picture in today's (January 20, 1998) New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/sci-neutrino-mass.html -------------------------------------------------- Jim Nugent 2309 Blackhawk Road Springfield, Illinois 62702-1369 U.S.A. jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu http://www.fgi.net/~jnugent/ -------------------------------------------------- In dwelling, live close to the ground. In thinking, keep to the simple. In conflict, be fair and generous. In governing, don't try to control. In work, do what you enjoy. In family life, be completely present. Tao Te Ching ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:14:01 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dan Vogel Subject: Re: Ephemeralization Comments: To: "Jim Nugent (the elder)" In-Reply-To: <34C42BC7.C07DD5CE@hrn.bradley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Jim Nugent (the elder) wrote: >> Bucky uses his concept of "ephemeralization" a lot. Its quite nice, but >> I forget its origins. I figured he either made up the word (or someone >> else did for him, like Dymaxion, which he also uses a lot), or it >> seriously is a word for the concept. dMv > >Bucky used ephemeralization in the sense of doing more and more with less and >less. Gold was replaced by paper money which was replaced by checks and >drafts, which were replaced by ledger entries, which were replace by e-cash. . >. Pony Express was replaced by telegraphs which were replaced by telephones >which were replaced by microwave transmission which was replaced by satellite. >. . Abacus, vacuum tubes, transistors, integrated circuits, LSI, VLSI, >microprocessors. . . Right. I know what Bucky's sense of the word is. I didn't spell it out because I assumed people knew it. I'm looking for the origin of the word, and Bucky's choice of using *it* for his principle (if it is his idea). So far, I've only seen one, different meaning (I believe) for a close word (see my last message). I'd like to know if this was an original Bucky concept, or if it was an established idea Bucky clung to; and I'd like to know if it was Bucky's choice to use the actual word "ephemeralization" to describe it. And was this a Bucky word. >The physical substance is replaced more and more by thoughts and ideas or >patterns. Etherealization might have been a better word choice. Which is why I want to know if it was a choice, and whose. I'm also interested, if anyone knows anything about it, in Bucky's other words he made up. It seems like making up words is a trait of many literary geniuses (Shakespeare, Dickens). J. Baldwin's Buckyworks mentions, I believe, that Bucky coined the word 'debunk'. Are there others? I know he owns "4D", "Dymaxion", "tensegrity", maybe Synergetics, are there others? dMv >In dwelling, live close to the ground. >In thinking, keep to the simple. Would Bucky agree? >In governing, don't try to control. >In work, do what you enjoy. I believe these he would. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:18:07 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: HILL Subject: Re: Bucky 'n' Hollywood In-Reply-To: <199801200506.VAA05544@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, anthony kalenak wrote: > How about Dustin Hoffman in the role of Bucky? Anthony Hopkins? > > Above all it needs a good screen play. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:52:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Ephemeralization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan, The following is from the BF Master index at my site (address below): ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- EPHEMERALIZATION General BF's Universe page 378.00 BuckyWorks 15-6, 174 Critical Path 103-4, 128, 132-3, 142, 148, 198-9, 203-5, 216-7, 232-3, 275-6 Fuller's Earth page 021.00 Grunch of Giants x, xix, 5, 31-32, 39, 43-44, 067, 078-80, 086 Synergetics 2 sects 504.11, 792.52, 1075.26 Air-Deliverability in Critical Path page 194.00 And Henry Ford Critical Path pages 053-54 As Exemplified by Satellite, Gossamer Albatross CritPath pgs xxiii-xxiv Class-One Evolution Critical Path pages 232-33 Self-Dicipline Critical Path page 133.00 Charts of Critical Path pages 103.00, 245.00 Critical Path and Critical Path page 253.00 In 1940 Critical Path pages 103-04 Consumer Goods Critical Path page 236.00 Shipbuilding Critical Path page 233.00 Socioeconomic Behaviors Critical Path page 146.00 World Game Critical Path pages 203.00, 216-17 Prognostication and Critical Path page 150.00 Only Recently Possible Critical Path page xxv.00 Through Know-How Critical Path page 109.00 Metals Critical Path page 284.00 Trends of Critical Path pages 103.00, 237.00 Ultimate Critical Path page 234.00 Youth and Critical Path page 232.00 See: ACCELERATING ACCELERATION DESIGN SCIENCE REVOLUTION EVOLUTION: CLASS-ONE ENVIRONMENT: ALTERING THE ENVIRONMENT INVISIBLE: INVISIBILITY LIVINGRY VS KILLINGRY MECHANICAL EFFICIENCY METAPHYSICAL KNOW-HOW MINIATURIZATION MORE WITH LESS PERFORMANCE PER POUND WEIGHT PRECESSION STRUCTURAL EFFICIENCY WORK EFFECTIVENESS WORLD GAME **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Dan Vogel Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 08:14 PM Subject: Ephemeralization >Hi everybody. >This isn't a dome message, (its a Fuller question), but I hope that's ok. >I'm currently working on a research paper on Fuller, so I may be coming >back here several times in the next month. But this is just sort of an >open question that's been bugging me. > >Bucky uses his concept of "ephemeralization" a lot. Its quite nice, but >I forget its origins. I figured he either made up the word (or someone >else did for him, like Dymaxion, which he also uses a lot), or it >seriously is a word for the concept. > >Well, I was in my local library, and there was a dictionary sprawled out, >so I looked up "ephemeralization". Of course, they don't have -ization >as a word, but they have ephemeral. > >>From the Merriam-Webster WWWebster's dictionary (www.m-w.com): > > Main Entry: 1ephemeral > Pronunciation: i-'fem-r&l, -'fEm-; -'fe-m&-, -'fE- > Function: adjective > Etymology: Greek ephEmeros lasting a day, daily, from epi- + hEmera > day > Date: 1576 > 1 : lasting one day only > 2 : lasting a very short time > synonym see TRANSIENT > - ephemerally /-r&-lE/ adverb > > >Now, this is a cool word (I'm a fan of Transient stuff...) but I don't see >a direct relationship between 'Transient' and 'more-with-less'. > >Is there a connection? Is there a difference between ephemeralization and >ephemeral, or is this just a coincidence? Does anyone know the origin of >ephemeralization? > > This has been bugging me. I haven't finished reading all of >Fuller's stuff, and I suppose the answer probably lies somewhere in there, >but maybe someone more familiar with the solution can enlighten me first. > >R. Buckminster Fuller is an incredible person. The more I learn, the more >I like and become more interested in knowing more. I envy those who knew >him... > > dMv > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:40:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Steve Brant Subject: Re: Bucky 'n' Hollywood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" My choices to play Bucky: Tom Hanks (right spirit, big draw, wrong body type) or Robin Williams (another "original", big draw, likes roles in small films, could probably imitate Bucky's speech patterns too) Steven G. Brant, President Trimtab Management Systems "Charting new routes to the 21st Century" 81 Ocean Parkway, Suite 3H, Brooklyn, NY 11218-1754 USA (718) 972-0949 (voice) (718) 972-3465 (fax) sbrant@trimtab.com http://www.trimtab.com -------------------------------------------------- "It no longer has to be you or me." - R. Buckminster Fuller -------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:54:56 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: "World Population and Energy Use: Year 0 to 2,000" Comments: To: Jim Nugent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, The following information is found (on page 57)in a brochure entitled _The Expendable Ikon: Works by John McHale_ published on the occasion of an exhibition by the Albright-Knox Art Gallery, Buffalo, NY, May 12-July 8, 1984: QUOTE: Films/Television by the Artist [John McHale] ... ... ... ... ... 1965 "World Population" (4000 BC to Present) Film devised to show dynamic growth of world population with time/events. [15 min?, color?] 1969 "Our World 2000" Half-hour television program by Canadian Television, Toronto, directed by Patrick Gossage of CTV. ... UNQUOTE. In addition, at one time (before Bucky died?) the BFI offered for rent "A three-minute film depicting world population growth from 1000 BC to 1965 AD". [Author, date unknown, color?] Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Jim Nugent To: Joe S. Moore Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 06:59 AM Subject: "World Population and Energy Use: Year 0 to 2,000" > >> Found: Thanks SO much for the Population movie info!!! Please add the >stills to your web page. >> ____________________________________________ > >Thanks for the note. I will do that as soon as I run across them. I think I >also have a binder of research notes that support the energy and population >figures used in the film. That might have some more information on what the >real title of the film was and who officially gets the credits. > >Jim Nugent > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:56:40 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spencer W Hunter Organization: The University of Arizona Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Chuck Knight wrote: > > anthony kalenak : > > >Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up > > >with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > > > > > >The two I watched were: > > > Slaugherhouse 5 > > > Silent Running > > > > > >Can anyone think of any others ? > Well, two spring to mind. The Dr. Who series frequently used > domes...geodesic and otherwise...especially for the Dalek > constructs, and for many "good guy" races too. > And, of course, the other is "Forbidden Planet." Dr. Moebius' > home is a lovely dome, and featured what appeared to be a central > mast similar to Bucky's Dymaxion homes. Fascinating! I'll have to revisit "Forbidden Planet." I believe "Logan's Run" (1976) also featured a geodesic dome--if not, it should have. -- Spencer W. Hunter Tucson, AZ. | veni, vidi, vamos. shunter@u.arizona.edu | they came, they saw, they left. gopher://www.u.arizona.edu:80/hGET%20/~shunter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:29:24 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: MITE MODELS Comments: To: SYNERGETICS _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following are instructions on how to construct what I like to call "Moore's Mighty Mite Modeling Modules": Please refer to the bottom of figure 953.10 in _Synergetics_. Assume the drawing is on a fairly stiff material such as posterboard. Draw a vertical line from angle C to angle D, dividing the drawing in half. There are now 6 large triangles instead of 4, 3 on the right and 3 on the left. In the CENTER of each triangle to the RIGHT of the vertical dividing line mark a PLUS (+) sign. In the CENTER of each triangle to the LEFT of the dividing line mark a MINUS (-) sign. Glue a circle of Velcro HOOKS to each plus (+) sign (3). Glue a circle of Velcro FUZZ to each MINUS (-) sign (3). Cut out and fold the drawing into a tetrahedron and secure with tape. Repeat the above process at least 48 times in order to have enough pieces to make the model depicted in plate 25 of _Synergetics II_. Enjoy! Joe PS: See also _A Fuller Explanation_, pages 197-8. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:57:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Pop and Energy Comments: To: jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0155_01BD26A6.DAC7DD80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01BD26A6.DAC7DD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, =20 I am sending a copy of this reply to the Geodesic list so that it's = members (about 100) can take a look at your work. Also, since the = Geodesic list is "gatewayed" to the Geodesic newsgroup which has about = 10,000 readers, they can become aware of your web pages also. I hope = you don't mind--I think you have a lot to offer. Sincerely, Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Jim Nugent (the elder) To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 06:18 PM Subject: Pop and Energy =20 =20 Thanks for the copy of that email that I deleted as I was cutting = and pasting. Here's the still from the film. This was the last frame and = basically we just peeled off the signal dots for energy and population = according to the animation charts. When the film was developed it was = duped or printed with the ends swapped so it looked like things were = being added instead of subtracted.=20 I posted a copy of the animation still from the film. According to = the artwork it should have been called World Energy and Population: = 1,350 A.D. to 2,000 A.D.=20 http://www.fgi.net/~jnugent/math/en-pop.htm=20 Jim Nugent=20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01BD26A6.DAC7DD80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim,

I am sending a copy of this reply to = the Geodesic=20 list so that it's members (about 100) can take a look at your = work. Also,=20 since the Geodesic list is "gatewayed" to the Geodesic = newsgroup which=20 has about 10,000 readers, they can become aware of your web pages=20 also. I hope you don't mind--I think you have a lot to = offer.

Sincerely,

Joe

****************************************
* Joe S. = Moore
*=20 Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
= *=20 Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore= /
****************************************

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Jim Nugent (the elder) <jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu>To:=20 joemoore@mail.cruzio.com=20 <joemoore@mail.cruzio.com>=
Date:=20 Wednesday, January 21, 1998 06:18 PM
Subject: Pop and=20 Energy

Thanks for the copy of that email that I = deleted=20 as I was cutting and pasting. Here's the still from the film. This = was the=20 last frame and basically we just peeled off the signal dots for = energy and=20 population according to the animation charts. When the film was = developed it=20 was duped or printed with the ends swapped so it looked like things = were=20 being added instead of subtracted.=20
I posted a copy of the animation still from the film. According = to the=20 artwork it should have been called World Energy and Population: = 1,350 A.D.=20 to 2,000 A.D.=20
http://www.fgi.net/~= jnugent/math/en-pop.htm=20 =20
Jim Nugent

------=_NextPart_000_0155_01BD26A6.DAC7DD80-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:40:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Chuck Knight Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Comments: To: Spencer W Hunter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > And, of course, the other is "Forbidden Planet." Dr. Moebius' > > home is a lovely dome, and featured what appeared to be a central > > mast similar to Bucky's Dymaxion homes. > > Fascinating! I'll have to revisit "Forbidden Planet." That's what I get for working from memory alone. Moebius' house isn't equipped with a central mast...it's got multiple poles arranged almost like the underside of an umbrella. Let's see...I think they were surrounded by a planter. Their function seems to be similar to the central mast in the Dymaxion house, though. Check it out...I just accidentally recorded over my copy of "Forbidden Planet" and can't check it out for myself. Unfortunately, PBS will play it 20 times in a single month, and then not again for several years. -- Chuck Knight P.S. The "Northern Exposure" dome was the one that made me fall in love with geodesic architecture. Talk about bright and airy! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:55:55 -0600 Reply-To: zz55221@worldnet.att.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: zz55221 Comments: To: geneseo@geocities.com Authenticated sender is Subject: January Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email addresses. 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Thompson" Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone is a Babylon 5 fan, they would be able to recall a very large dome that was crashed through in a scene where Captain Sheridan takes a WhiteStar ship right through the dome (clear glass-like, metal framed dome, very dramatic) and down into the center of a planet that is being blown up with a couple of 400 megaton nuclear warheads. Very nasty galactic scale war I don't know the size of the ship, but it isn't too small, so the dome is pretty good sized. Also, I believe the rotating end members of Babylon 5 (the space station) itself are geodesic. Need to get out the VCR and press pause for that. One interesting note about that crashed dome: It is supposed to have been built by a race (one of the "Old Ones") that has technology at least a 1000 years more advanced than ours ("the year is 2261, the dawning of the Third Age of mankind") and they haven't come up with anything to beat it structurally! You might also wish to look at the ships that they use as well. They aren't geodesic, but would appear to be biotensegrity structures. Domes are also shown on Mars on Babylon 5. ---------- > From: anthony kalenak > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Domes in the Movies > Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 12:19 AM > > I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. > I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by > coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic > domes in them. > > Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up > with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > > The two I watched were: > Slaugherhouse 5 > Silent Running > > Can anyone think of any others ? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:08:14 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: tom aagdii Subject: statistics I,II- storing critical variables in geo- archieves In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I refrence for the last statistics comes form Hndbook of physical sidtribution mangmment felix wentworth- edited. 1976 ------------------------------------------------- the supply of international money i just jot down the gold in the IMF- billion dollars of GOLD 560 308 33 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1950 1978 1985 from great book The international money Game Robert Z. Aliber 1987 ---- in my old notes i remember that the international trade equals to 2 trillion dollars- 1200 billion of it between the advanced industiral countires. there is also 2 trillion dollars in the international banking system moving from one coutnry to another- that exactly i dont know if it is exchange money and stocks changes- international trade instocks- but i think it is both. i add that so you can see the comparison between gold reserve and\the actual\ business volume. the gold from 1920 coulnt hold the structure of trade, it is intresting subject that needs little depth study. but it is curious to note that Fuller, states that wealth is associated with energy from 1928, which about the time of the gold going out of standard, the breaton wood is an agreement reached to replace the old standar-new hamshser resort name- where all finace minister met. economics is realy a geeodesic tensegrity structure you touch somthing in the yen, and VW auto loses sales in the U.S. tagdi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:45:06 -0800 Reply-To: zigi41@polaristel.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Strom Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: anthony kalenak > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Domes in the Movies > > Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 12:19 AM > > > > I took a video nostalgia trip last weekend. > > I rented 2 of my favorite movies from my early college years and just by > > coincidence (or was it a subconcious directive ?) both had Geodesic > > domes in them. > > > > Realizing this prompted me to ask myself "How many movies can I come up > > with that FEATURE domes as an element within the story ?" > > > > The two I watched were: > > Slaugherhouse 5 > > Silent Running > > > > Can anyone think of any others ? How about "Flashback". When Keefer "Free" Sutherland and Dennis Hopper return to the commune where Free was raised you get several background shots of a multi color "60's" dome. Mark Strom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:35:46 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: "Dymaxion" name claimed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD2765.87D05700" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD2765.87D05700 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-ID: Hey, anyone know the current status of the Dymaxion trademark? Not that the original inventor is going to be releasing new Dymaxion artifacts any time soon, and not that I believe in the sovereignity of trademarks, but I've been told that someone else has the service mark on the name. There's an art-rock band in NYC that's been around for a few years that released some 7" records (and I maybe a full-length but I'm not sure) who go by the name Dymaxion. But I just found out that there's a glam-metal band in Wadsworth, Ohio by that same name as well. They have a Web site -- -- and can be reached via email at dymaxion@dymaxion.net. I spoke to one of the band members about the name (there's a fly's eye dome on the cover of their CD), and he told me that they have the service mark on the name in US and Canada. But I kinda find it hard to believe that the Dymaxion trademark would have gotten so easily "lost." (If I were a business producing Fuller-related artifacts today, like domes, I'd _love_ to have snagged that one!) (And wouldn't it be cool if some of RBF's easier-to-fabricate inventions -- like the Dymaxion shelving units and the rowing needles -- were mass produced by some company with the Dymaxion logo on it?) Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD2765.87D05700-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 02:01:09 GMT Reply-To: box2321@teleport.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: box2321.com Subject: Re: Bucky 'n' Hollywood Steve Brant : >My choices to play Bucky: Dustin Hoffman. Consider his 'bird-like' roles such as Louis Degas in Papillon (1973). Ed Applewhite. I can't claim that idea, but am not sure the person who did would want to identify themselves. If so, they will. RuPaul, Pee Wee Herman or Jackie Chan. For obvious reasons. -- Rev. Dr. Onan Canobite - SubGenius since 1982 - onan@subgenius.com Send One Dollar to http://www.subgenius.com/ for Eternal Salvation ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:07:25 -0500 Reply-To: John Belt Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: Ephemeralization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Dan and list members. Posted below are some of the quotes of Fuller on the word "ephemeralization" and the sources from which they are taken. All of the following quotes are taken from The SYNERGETICS DICTIONARY-The Mind of Buckminister Fuller, Garland Publishing, INc. NY & London, 1986. Compiled and Edited by E.J. APPLEWHITE. All words in the dictionary do not make one sentence; all the words cannot be simultaneously considered, yet each of the words is valid as a tool of communication; and some of the words combine in a structure of meaning. All the words are memoranda of all of humanity's attempts to communicate to self or to others their understanding of the unique evolvement of their separately viewed experiences. The dictionary is the inventory of unique aspects of the totally composited experiences known as Universe. R.B. Fuller, Synergetics, sec. 510.10 RBF DEFINITIONS "Ephemeral...means conceptual but weightless--as is for instance the concept of circularity." -Cite HOW LITTLE, p.2, Oct'66 RBF DEFINITIONS Ephemeralizaation: "...the design science strategy of doing ever more with ever less." -Cite WORLD GAME (3), Oct'69 RBF DEFINITIONS Ephemeralization: "Doing vastly more with vastly and invisibly less is know technically as _ephemeralization_. The mass productions of electronic controls inaugurated automation. With automation has come--just now--a dawning awareness of the invisible avalanche of ephemeralization." "A key part of ephemeralization's acceleration has been played by the return of approximately all the world's metallic scrap into complete reuse. This scrap recirculation released by progressive obsolescence of earlier inventions by newer more efficient ones...constitutes a fundamental factor in the doing -more-with-less process." -Cite GEOSOCIAL REVOLUTION, pp. 184-186 16 Sep'67 RBF DEFINITIONS Ephemeralization: ""Ephemeralization is the doing ever more with ever less, per given resource unites of pounds, time and energy." "Ephemeralization is accelerated by ever increasing quantities of invisible energy events of universe, detoured by human intellect from their previously only cosmically flowing patterns to flow through engineered channels and impinge upon intellect-invented levers and thereby to vastly augment the work accomplishable by mankind's muscles in rearranging the energetic environment events to more effectively sustain the metabolic regeneration of human life. "Ephermeralization, which constantly does more with visibly less--as does, for instance, the one-quarter-ton communications satellite outperform 150,000tons of transoceanic cables--has not yet been formally isolated, recognized and discussed in print as such by any economists. cite CITIZEN OF THE 21st CENTURY (U OR 0), pp. 3-4,1 Apr'67 RBF DEFINITIONS Ephemeralization: "Not only is man continually doing more with less--which is a principle of trend we will call ephemeralization--a corollary of the principle of synergy--but he is also demonstrating certain other visible trends of an epochal nature. Not only does he continually increase literacy but he continually affords more years of more advance study to more people. The man becomes master of the machine and machines are introduced to carry on every kind of physical work with increased precision, effectiveness, and velocity. His skilled crafts, formerly intermittently patronized, graduate from labor status to continuity of employment as research and development technicians. As man is progressively disemployed as a quantity production, muscle-and reflex machine, he becomes progressively re-employed the rapidly increasing army of research and development--or of production-inaugurating engineering--or of educational and recreational extension, as plowed back increment of industrialization." -Cite COMPREHENSIVE DESIGNER, ppl.3-4, 1 Jun '49 RBF DEFINITIONS Ephemeralization: "The history of measurement exemplifies the trend progression factor which I have entitled ephemeralization. This progression, evoluting from compression->tension->visual->abstract-electrical, is typical of all evolutionary trends: from might makes right to right makes might, to technology, to science, and to pure mathematics, the latter being contactable only through mind-functioning." -Cite NINE CHAINS TO THE MOON, p 253, 1938 RBF DEFINITIONS Ephemeralization: "The very character of simple arithmetic of mathematics indicates that all progressions are from material to abstract, by which we mean intangibility, nonsensoriality, _ephemeralization_." -Cite NINE CHAINS TO THE MOON, p. 256, 1938 ------------------------------------------------------- Note these are taken from fourteen entries on made in the dictionary and include those that had text and excludes those that reference concepts and did not have text definitions. jb --------------------------------------------------------- I had written Dan that i would send him a hard copy of these entries but in the review of them it seemed that it would not be in keeping with the content of the entries above to not follow through with the concept and send it to as many as possible, instantly and make them available to all on the list group. Best to all in '98 john belt, Oswego, NY with special Thanks to E.J. APPLEWHITE for this resource., jb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:17:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Lawrence E. Couey" Organization: FX Informationing Subject: [Fwd: where is the new Dymaxion? 50 yrs. and no progress] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BBD5FD352761C8DCDB583ECE" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BBD5FD352761C8DCDB583ECE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's an idea to consider "RVs as Dymaxion emplimentation". I wonder if there is other areas that might also reflect some of what BF wrote and thought about. Lawrence C. --------------BBD5FD352761C8DCDB583ECE Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Path: news.eli.net!uunet!in5.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!zdc!spln!super.zippo.com!newsp.zippo.com!buchner From: buchner@wcta.net (David Buchner) Newsgroups: alt.architecture.alternative Subject: Re: where is the new Dymaxion? 50 yrs. and no progress Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:38:38 -0600 Organization: Zippo News Service [http://www.zippo.com] Message-ID: References: <19980118194601.OAA18767@ladder01.news.aol.com> <01bd26f9$bba7f220$53c906c6@fulltilt.ccsi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-180.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Xref: news.eli.net alt.architecture.alternative:10745 I've lived for almost 5 years in an Airstream travel trailer, which I've always liked to think of as my Dymaxion House. I love it. I don't travel around; just take it with me when I move. I haven't read as many Bucky books as I've bought (can't keep them all in that silly trailer!), but it seems that one of his paradigm-busting futuristic house ideas was that everybody would want houses that could up and move away with them, spend a little time here and there. Dirigible-drops into pristine wildernesses and so on. I wonder how much of the mobile home and RV industry, uninspiring though most of it is to look at, follows from this -- and how much was going to happen anyway. --------------BBD5FD352761C8DCDB583ECE-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:04:01 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: [Fwd: where is the new Dymaxion? 50 yrs. and no progress] In-Reply-To: <34C8ECD4.9C7D9FF8@inet-1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Lawrence E. Couey wrote: > Here's an idea to consider "RVs as Dymaxion emplimentation". > > I wonder if there is other areas that might also reflect some of what BF > wrote and thought about. It's almost cliche, but it's true: the ever-expanding information-dome of the Net as the ultimate in ephemeralization (pure wealth -- knowledge -- accessible around the globe). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:45:22 -0500 Reply-To: monkey@one.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Organization: Flying Monkey Software Subject: Source for hubs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody know of a scalable *design* for a simple, low-cost hub? I want to model in the small (2 inch struts) and prototype in the large (2-8 ft struts), but I just have a small wood shop... -- - Dave Anderson monkey@one.net http://w3.one.net/~monkey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:33:39 +1000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rob Lusher Subject: Bucky Quote? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings from the Land Down Under, Can anyone tell me whether the quotation below can be attributed to R. Buckminster Fuller and if so, what is it's source or book reference. "Your significance will remain forever obscure to you, but you may assume that you are fullfilling your role if you apply yourself to converting your experience to the highest advantage of others." With thanks Rob Lusher The Dome Company http://www.wr.com.au/domeco Sydney, NSW Australia Phone/Fax: (02) 95226283 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:21:39 -0600 Reply-To: ega@fastlane.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ernie Aiken Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes Subject: Re: Source for hubs Comments: To: monkey@one.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can check out these, and when the ephemeralizationgasm hits, you may realize that there is always a better way (and see what not to do). Or as in the case of the Porsche 911 door it has changed very little over the years because the first design was "a good door." While I mentioned Porsches have you noticed that their car designs don't change near as much as other makes do, they perform well and hold their value very well. Design science? Did you know that the first triangulated space frame structure was built in Germany? Another topic of interest, I read in a recent Popular Science (or Mechanics?) of the Zeppelin company building new zeppelins with modern technology and internal tensegrity type frame work. You can see these at the IBM Patent Server--->http://www.patents.ibm.com/ibm.html and see what's *not* simple and low-cost 4203265 - Hub and strut system for geodesic domes 4308698 - Interconnecting members for enclosures 5165207 - Apparatus for forming a space frame structure 4236473 - Method of making metal beam for geodesic dome 4511278 - Connector unit for geodesic dome frame strut 4901483 - Spiral helix tensegrity dome 4194851 - Universal hub for geodesic domes 5056291 - Modular system for space frame structures 4365910 - Strut support apparatus 5566516 - Spherical grid 4370073 - Connector hub 438401 - Junction plate 3635509 - Dome joint structures 3810342 - Dome joint 4262461 - Geodesic dome connector 4069832 - Tetrahedral frame 4092819 - Domical structure (my dome patents page - http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/Patents.htm) Ernie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:07:52 -0600 Reply-To: ega@fastlane.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ernie Aiken Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes Subject: inventors guide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------49795989475FAC3A61EF2E6D" --------------49795989475FAC3A61EF2E6D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Mining Co. Guide to Inventors article The Planet's Friendly Genius about Bucky is good. -->http://inventors.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa111897.htm --------------49795989475FAC3A61EF2E6D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Mining Co. Guide to Inventors article The Planet's Friendly Genius
about Bucky is good.
-->http://invento rs.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa111897.htm --------------49795989475FAC3A61EF2E6D-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:12:34 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Syn-l: Re: box'o'mods' Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, Bucky made the A+ and A- quanta modules light and dark BLUE because they tended to conserve energy. He made the B+ and B- quanta modules light and dark RED because they tended to lose energy. The modules can be marked on the sides of the Mites. Mites can compound with themselves to fill allspace. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: richard hawkins To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 07:18 PM Subject: Re: Syn-l: Re: box'o'mods' >I wanted to see what transparent plastic mods might look like so I've >rendered some A & B mod movies: > >http://www.rt66.com/~charhawk/mods.html > >I know that by convention A mods are blue and B mods red but I think we >should differentiate between A+ and A-, B+ and B- using complementary >colors so I have made A+ blue, A- orange, B+ red, and B- green. I plan >to add more to this page as time permits - couplers,sytes, kites etc. >-- >Richard Hawkins >http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:22:15 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Conroy Subject: Re: Syn-l: Re: box'o'mods' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Joe, You wrote: <> Would you mind explaining how a Fuller A quanta supposedly conserve= s energy and a B quanta loses energy? = Filling all space seems to beg the question of what space? They c= an surely fill all the space of the cubic architecture of our society, but c= an they fill the architecture of Nature's architecture which has symetries o= f icosahedrons, dodecahedrons, and icosidodecahedrons, not withstanding its= ' parallel apparent architecture of the Alexander Graham Bell's oct-tet symetry, of which the A & B Fuller quanta fit nicely? Bob http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy = ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:23:00 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Mass Media Rediscovers the Weasel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mass Media Rediscovers the Weasel an editorial by Kirby Urner Jan 25, 1998 Lots of people in the media seem to be getting a crash course in lawyerspeak these days. This means relearning the fine art of double-talk, or the white lie. As was pointed out on NPR this morning, saying "I will not raise taxes to pay for new programs" does not mean "I will not raise taxes" (some programs aren't new) and "these allegations are false" means perhaps in some minor detail, and of course the whole is false if any part of it is (e.g. the wallpaper color is misidentified). That's just the way the game is played. So Gennifer Flowers got a piece of it wrong (the "12 years" part maybe -- we hear "only briefly" is closer to the truth, but that never gets translated -- maybe arrived at by adding all the times spent together into a continuous block, and estimating this comes to far less than 12 years). Therefore her allegations were simply false -- nevermind that Bill has admitted to the Flowers affair. So when the president says "there is no improper relationship" instead of "was", lots of newly sensitized listeners run to the phones. Besides, maybe "improper" is up for grabs as well? -- like don't we expect, even encourage our (so far always male) presidents to be playboys at some level, dashing womanizers? Really, what's so "improper" about emulating JFK, a favorite prez of the prez? Now even Vernon Jordan's innocent enough "What I want to tell you" intro to a strongly worded denial gets undeserved scrutiny, as if "what I want to tell you" really means "but really cannot". To some extent, the lawyers have brought this on themselves. Fine hairsplitting is considered an artform in the advertising world, as Vance Packard taught us so many decades ago. "Weasel words" have long been the common currency of life in the public eye. And so we learn about executive officers for tobacco companies getting coached to say "I believe" in front of whatever fool statement to Congress (e.g. about no link between smoking and disease), because, hey, a person's beliefs are a private affair and can be anything -- never a punishable lie, at least not in lawyerspeak. In the same sense, Hillary is perfectly free to boldly state she believes her husband -- and whatever else about green cheese on the moon. --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:27:02 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps the solar dome in "Illustrated Man" with Rod Steiger and Claire Bloom was geodesic? It's a rainy planet, kind of like Oregon, and the guys are wimping out big time, but then Rod stumbles on Claire in the dome and all is well (I think they were married at the time -- we rented an apartment in Rome on Viale Parioli which rumor had it was theirs sometime previously). My photogenic memory isn't quite good enough to recall whether this dome was Buckyite in construction. Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:56:47 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: "Dymaxion" name claimed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Stutz wrote: >Hey, anyone know the current status of the Dymaxion trademark? > Write to bfi@aol.com -- this is something for the estate lawyers who run that place to chew over. Personally, I favor brand names and support the notion of registering trademarks and seeing imitators of brands (the symbols and logos, applied to similar merchandize) as trafficing in counterfeits -- although the line blurs when the same Chang Mei sweatshops that make Calvin Klein jeans sell some extra copies of identical quality out the back door to tourists for cheap, and without permission from headquarters (that may still be an offense in the eyes of management, but is not "counterfeiting" per se). I told a company in Malaysia that wrote to ask about the C60 motif whether they needed permission, and I said no, that geometric and naturally occuring shapes are by definition in the public domain. But I further advised that their trademarked version should be unique and distinguishable, and they should feel free to pursue others stealing their trademark if identical (leaving lots of room for other versions of the C60 motif), as there's no reason to make one's logo identical to another's if the businesses are not, in fact, the same (logos in graphical space have more degrees of freedom than brandnames in alphanumeric space, so an identical look and feel of graphical trademarks is far less easy to justify than some reuse of the relatively miniscule pool of lexical signifiers). It goes back to cattle culture and the like. If I trust Mr. & Mrs. Dean and know their mark, and buy some cattle because I see that mark on the merchandize, then I have every reason to be pissed if it turns out that some bozo has absconded with the Deans' mark sans permission or authority from them, is banking on their good name and stealing away unwitting clients of the Deans, who think they're paying for one good, but in fact are getting another good. Note that I have a company and a name: 4D Solutions. I don't want to see other firms copycatting without my clearance. I have a lot of clients who respect the name and integrity of my work (I'm a principal in my firm) and I have no patience for others who use my good name and integrity as a vehicle for their private gain, without checking with me first. Note also that the game, in its primitive form, allows some duplication of brandnames if there's no possibility of confusing the merchandize or services offered. I'm OK with this. If a company called Microsoft sets up to sell pillows and futons to fleas in flea circuses, I think that'd be fair reuse of a name. Just don't use the same typefont and logo, or the little music sound that you hear when Windows 95 boots up, and you should feel safe from the brandname police. I'm far less sympathetic, however, when a group takes a word like "Olympics" and goes after "Olympics Bar & Grill" as if a greasy spoon has any chance of being confused with a giant media extravaganza of televised sports events. Like who gave the Olympic Committee title to an ancient Greek invention in the first place? "Olympic" is part of the language, is public domain and not available to anyone to just "own" outright, to the exclusion of all future would-be users, in perpetuity -- I think the lawyers really went overboard granting themselves such enormous privileges over language they didn't even own or control in the first place. In conclusion, I see no reason why a rock band can't be "Dymaxion", nor a software company in the Portland Yellow Pages (dunno if Dale is still in business, but he had a Dymaxion Corporation for awhile at least). And another rock band named "The Dymaxions" might even surface later, never knew about the first, and perhaps I'd encourage amicable sharing of this asset, with differentiation in packaging at other levels -- this is easier with music (one could even put a disclaimer on the cover if there were a chance for confusion -- at least let the customer return the merchandize if purchasing the "wrong" dymaxion music by mistake). I lost respect for U2 when it sued NegativLand for putting a U2 on their album cover. Did U2 get permission from Lockheed or the US government for their band name? I don't think so -- correct me if I'm wrong. Not that they needed this kind of clearance -- but going after others for using it seemed mean spirited and anti-artistic freedom in my book. Personally, I find the word "dymaxion" a bit on the dated side, although unlike some others I still find "Spaceship Earth" refreshing (I coined "Motherboard Earth" right alongside, but never thought of trying limit its circulation or "owning" that coin in some way). Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:20:08 GMT Reply-To: box2321@teleport.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: box2321.com Subject: Re: "Dymaxion" name claimed Kirby Urner : >I lost respect for U2 when it sued NegativLand for putting a U2 on >their album cover. Did U2 get permission from Lockheed or the US >government for their band name? I don't think so -- correct me if >I'm wrong. Not that they needed this kind of clearance -- but going >after others for using it seemed mean spirited and anti-artistic >freedom in my book. For more information on this issue, see NegativWorldWideWebland's Intellectual Property Issues page at http://www.negativland.com/intprop.html -- _________________________________________ | | | | | | | | | www.teleport.com/ | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> | ~box2321/go.htm | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo | box2321@teleport.com ----------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:47:29 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Bono Subject: Re: Domes in the Movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Had forgotten this one. Slauterhouse Five. If it hasn't already been mentioned, Silent Running had some cool dome spaceships. Rick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:03:20 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Brent A. Verrill" Subject: Re: Source for hubs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ernie, I checked out your page, http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/Patents.htm , and was wondering why you don't post the details of your own patent. If you have applied for your patent and it is pending, you have legal protection against others profiting from it. At least that is my understanding. You list the advantages of your system, but don't let us see it. Very frustrating. Brent ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:55:36 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Subject: USSR Submarine Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In Critical Path (1980, St. Martin's Press), author R. Buckminster Fuller writes: "When Jane's Annual World Inventory of Ships showed that the U.S.S.R. Navy had reached parity with the U.S.A., the U.S. politicans laughed it off by saying the Russians did not even have aircraft carriers. This was true because the U.S.S.R. had seen that aircraft carriers are "highly vulnerable," so they built huge airplane-carrying submarines from which a plane would take off by "Vertol" vertical flight to height, followed by horizontal flight, ergo needing no runways. This Vertol-from-submarine launching was strongly advocated by some of the U.S. Navy's most astute officers, whose word was not heeded because the aircraft carriers were much more profitable business for private enterprise. The weapons industry's Washington lobbyists were more persuasive than the U.S. Navy's experts. I would like to learn more about these "huge airplane-carrying submarines" - what were the called? Where can I see a picture of one? Are they still in use? Or... were they a creation of the author's imagination? Those interested in the works of "Bucky" Fuller are directed to http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ Many thanks - direct replies as well as follow-up posts most appreciated. From: elmer@WPI.EDU (Andrew Toppan) Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military.naval Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Date: 25 Jan 1998 17:25:12 GMT Organization: WPI P. O. Box 2321 (box2321@teleport.com) was seen to write: > I would like to learn more about these "huge airplane-carrying > submarines" - what were the called? Where can I see a picture of one? > Are they still in use? Or... were they a creation of the author's > imagination? The author was very imaginative. The last aircraft-carrying submarines were Japanese boats of the WWII era. - Andrew Toppan --- elmer@wpi.edu --- "I speak only for myself" U.S. Naval & Shipbuilding Museum/USS Salem Online @ http://www.uss-salem.org/ Naval History, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more Railroad Rosters & Photo Features --- http://membrane.com/~elmer/rail/ From: "Paul J. Adam" Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military.naval Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:52:01 +0000 Organization: Wholesale Lunacy Reply-To: "Paul J. Adam" In article , "P. O. Box 2321" writes >I would like to learn more about these "huge airplane-carrying >submarines" - what were the called? Where can I see a picture of one? >Are they still in use? Or... were they a creation of the author's >imagination? Sadly, Fuller was imagining things. Submarines, being volume-limited, make very poor aircraft carriers. - There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and praiseworthy... Paul J. Adam paul@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk - Trevor Blake -- J. Whirler Used & Rare Children's Books | Trevor Blake http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/jw.htm | 503-236-2364 P. O. Box 2321 - Portland OR 97208-2321 | box2321@teleport.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:05:00 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Windancer mindpsping Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question P. O. Box 2321 wrote in message ... >In Critical Path (1980, St. Martin's Press), author R. Buckminster >Fuller writes: > > >"When Jane's Annual World Inventory of Ships showed that the U.S.S.R. >Navy had reached parity with the U.S.A., the U.S. politicans laughed it >off by saying the Russians did not even have aircraft carriers. This >was true because the U.S.S.R. had seen that aircraft carriers are >"highly vulnerable," so they built huge airplane-carrying submarines >from which a plane would take off by "Vertol" vertical flight to height, >followed by horizontal flight, ergo needing no runways. This >Vertol-from-submarine launching was strongly advocated by some of the >U.S. Navy's most astute officers, whose word was not heeded because the >aircraft carriers were much more profitable business for private >enterprise. The weapons industry's Washington lobbyists were more >persuasive than the U.S. Navy's experts. > > Pull the other one! This has got to be the largest load of Rubbish to come down the trunpike since the unmentionalbe aircraft and the SUBSAM. Asute Officers, Looks like we need more drug testing at the higher levels of command if this is the case. What a bunch of silly crap. -- -H King, EWC, USN (ret.) Windancer@mindspringcom ************** ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:51:19 -0600 Reply-To: ega@fastlane.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ernie Aiken Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes Subject: Re: Source for hubs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The USPTO online guide says: "A patentee who makes or sells patented articles, or a person who does so for or under the patentee is required to mark the articles with the word "Patent" and the number of the patent. The penalty for failure to mark is that the patentee may not recover damages from an infringer unless the infringer was duly notified of the infringement and continued to infringe after the notice. The marking of an article as patented when it is not in fact patented is against the law and subjects the offender to a penalty. Some persons mark articles sold with the terms "Patent Applied For" or "Patent Pending." These phrases have no legal effect, but only give information that an application for patent has been filed in the Patent and Trademark Office. The protection afforded by a patent does not start until the actual grant of the patent. False use of these phrases or their equivalent is prohibited. " From what I know (admiteddly little) it is best to keep the information secret until the patent is issued. Then if the patent is not awarded you still have a "trade secret." As a patent is supposed to fully disclose an invention, it is then made public. The problem is what if a patent application is not approved? If your idea/formula/invention/design is already public knowledge then it would be difficult to sell it, and the patent business can costs thousands of dollars, so when someone seeks a patent it is usually for financial reasons. It is so with me too. I would like to move from "weaponry" working for Lockheed-Martin-[Northrop/Grumman] collosal conglomerate to "livingry" building domes and other design and artistic puruits. What is really frustrating is seeing my own ideas developed and marketed by someone else. This has already happened and now you can see why a patent or trade secret like the Coca-Cola recipe, genetic code or drug formula can be worth millions of dollars. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:35:29 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Sadly, Fuller was imagining things. Submarines, being volume-limited, >make very poor aircraft carriers. > Yeah, I think if these URS machines actually existed they'd have been unveiled by this time, as serious maritime museum draws. Clearly it would have been to the Russian's advantage to have showcased something festive in these dark days, when design science was little more than a backburner hobby for a few lingering die-hards. We can speculate: Fuller was maybe buying some time for the cold warriors, readjusting the weights according to some alchemical code of his own devising -- but at a cost to his credibility, Medal of Freedom notwithstanding. Kirby 4D Solutions --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:40:04 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dennis Johnson Organization: Natural Spaces Domes Subject: Re: Mass Media Rediscovers the Weasel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Regarding your latest editorial - I thought this was a "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" ?!! I had to read the whole _ _ _ _ thing because I figured there must be a link to Bucky's life or work somewhere. But no ! If I did want to hear any more of that garbage, I could tune into CNN any time of the day. I'm sure there are appropriate lists and chat rooms for what you wrote - and I hope you don't try to "stretch" the purpose of this list to encompass some obscure connection in your diatribe. It just shouldn't be here. Dennis Odin Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:35:13 GMT Reply-To: success@success.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: PAULC@TELEPORT.BITNET Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question "P. O. Box 2321" wrote: >In Critical Path (1980, St. Martin's Press), author R. Buckminster >Fuller writes: > >"When Jane's Annual World Inventory of Ships showed that the U.S.S.R. >Navy had reached parity with the U.S.A., the U.S. politicans laughed it >off by saying the Russians did not even have aircraft carriers. This >was true because the U.S.S.R. had seen that aircraft carriers are >"highly vulnerable," so they built huge airplane-carrying submarines >from which a plane would take off by "Vertol" vertical flight to height, >followed by horizontal flight, ergo needing no runways. This >Vertol-from-submarine launching was strongly advocated by some of the >U.S. Navy's most astute officers, whose word was not heeded because the >aircraft carriers were much more profitable business for private >enterprise. The weapons industry's Washington lobbyists were more >persuasive than the U.S. Navy's experts. > >I would like to learn more about these "huge airplane-carrying >submarines" - what were the called? Where can I see a picture of one? >Are they still in use? Or... were they a creation of the author's >imagination? >Those interested in the works of "Bucky" Fuller are directed to > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ >Many thanks - direct replies as well as follow-up posts most >appreciated. They were refering to cruise missile (SSGN) and balistic missle (SSBN) submarines. I believe they are in error, a SSGN is useful for attacking surface vessels but is hardly as versitle for providing sustained air support for amphibious landings. A SSBN has but one use, and if used things don't matter much anymore. St. Paul of Armour Member of the DNRC Keeper of the Sacred Tank Drinker of Fine Coffee add a com to the address for email ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:36:46 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote: PS: I _was_ able to confirm at least a part of Fuller's narrative, that the US Navy had at one time lusted for such machines -- some article dug out by the archivist at Center for Defense Information (CDI) in Washington, DC over a decade ago by now (sorry, I don't have my photocopy handy). I must say I find the flat denials here in newsgroups refreshing -- in the past, LAWCAP seemed incapable of coming clean with a straight yes or no re such a basic, simple question of fact (seems a hallmark of that failed regime -- truth in public is beyond its ken, a shortcoming that has proved very expensive to earthlings). Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:02:33 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: anthony kalenak Subject: Re: Mass Media Rediscovers the Weasel Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Kirby and everyone has the right to express themselves on this unmoderated group. If the topic doesn't interest you, don't read it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:54:45 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bertil Jonell Organization: Miss Annie Cannon Fan Club Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question In article <6ajnu8$170$2@news1.teleport.com>, wrote: >I believe they are in error, a SSGN is useful for attacking surface >vessels but is hardly as versitle for providing sustained air support >for amphibious landings. Its hard to get the Sandboxes to fly home for reloads :) >St. Paul of Armour -bertil- -- "It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an exercise for your kill-file." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:26:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Return-Path: paulc@teleport.com Received: from a48-pdx33-23.teleport.com (a48-pdx33-23.teleport.com [198.106.136.23]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA26849 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:30:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801270430.UAA26849@smtp2.teleport.com> From: paulc@teleport.com To: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:34:55 GMT Sender: paulc@teleport.com Reply-To: success@success.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:55:36 -0800, you wrote: >In Critical Path (1980, St. Martin's Press), author R. Buckminster >Fuller writes: > >"When Jane's Annual World Inventory of Ships showed that the U.S.S.R. >Navy had reached parity with the U.S.A., the U.S. politicans laughed it >off by saying the Russians did not even have aircraft carriers. This >was true because the U.S.S.R. had seen that aircraft carriers are >"highly vulnerable," so they built huge airplane-carrying submarines >from which a plane would take off by "Vertol" vertical flight to height, >followed by horizontal flight, ergo needing no runways. This >Vertol-from-submarine launching was strongly advocated by some of the >U.S. Navy's most astute officers, whose word was not heeded because the >aircraft carriers were much more profitable business for private >enterprise. The weapons industry's Washington lobbyists were more >persuasive than the U.S. Navy's experts. > >I would like to learn more about these "huge airplane-carrying >submarines" - what were the called? Where can I see a picture of one? >Are they still in use? Or... were they a creation of the author's >imagination? >Those interested in the works of "Bucky" Fuller are directed to > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ >Many thanks - direct replies as well as follow-up posts most >appreciated. They were refering to cruise missile (SSGN) and balistic missle (SSBN) submarines. I believe they are in error, a SSGN is useful for attacking surface vessels but is hardly as versitle for providing sustained air support for amphibious landings. A SSBN has but one use, and if used things don't matter much anymore. St. Paul of Armour Member of the DNRC Keeper of the Sacred Tank Drinker of Fine Coffee add a com to the address for email -- Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:21:31 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Geodesic news group Comments: To: Robert Wilson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert, It is my understanding that each Internet Service Provider (ISP) decides for itself which of the thousands of newsgroups they will actually make available to their customers. Ask your ISP to add the Geodesic newsgroup to their list. "Gatewayed" means that any email sent to a List is also forwarded to the corresponding Newsgroup. Not all lists do this. Please post updates re your dome project. Joe **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Robert Wilson To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 05:49 AM Subject: Geodesic news group >Hi Joe, > >I read you note to Jim Nugent with regards to his home page. I visited his >page and as you said, it was interesting. > >You also mentioned the "Geodesic" news group. I have not been able to find >it. Is there a secret or something? > >I do subscribe to the Geodesic list but do not understand the term >"gatewayed to the geodesic news group". > >Any help would be appreciated. > >I am in the process of designing a 32 foot dome to be built on a barge or >catamaran so I can live on the water and be mobile. > >Thanks > >Bob Wilson > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:44:54 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: VTOL-CARRYING SUBS Comments: To: SYNERGETICS _LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For an article about submarines carrying Vertical Take-Off & Landing aircraft see: "SINK THE NAVY!" by Charles C. Pease, HIGH TECHNOLOGY magazine, May 1984, pages 13-16. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:34:51 -0800 Reply-To: oregon@ordata.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc. Subject: Dome Raising Pictures Comments: To: Holflin's dome list , domesteading@sculptors.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good folks of the lists, One of the attendees of the domeraising in Haymarket, Virginia, has posted quite a few pictures of the event. She has divided them up into pictures of the 35' dome and the 50' dome. If you'd like to take a look, the address is listed below: http://www.dimentech.com/domes/WWWRaisings/ Drop me a note if you have any questions about the action. -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:35:24 -0500 Reply-To: monkey@one.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Organization: Flying Monkey Software Subject: Re: Geodesic news group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what is the name geodesic news group? Joe S. Moore wrote: > Robert, > > It is my understanding that each Internet Service Provider (ISP) > decides for > itself which of the thousands of newsgroups they will actually make > available to their customers. Ask your ISP to add the Geodesic > newsgroup to > their list. > > "Gatewayed" means that any email sent to a List is also forwarded to > the > corresponding Newsgroup. Not all lists do this. > > Please post updates re your dome project. > > Joe > > **************************************** > * Joe S. Moore > * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar > * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com > * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > **************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Wilson > To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com > Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 05:49 AM > Subject: Geodesic news group > > >Hi Joe, > > > >I read you note to Jim Nugent with regards to his home page. I > visited his > >page and as you said, it was interesting. > > > >You also mentioned the "Geodesic" news group. I have not been able to > find > >it. Is there a secret or something? > > > >I do subscribe to the Geodesic list but do not understand the term > >"gatewayed to the geodesic news group". > > > >Any help would be appreciated. > > > >I am in the process of designing a 32 foot dome to be built on a > barge or > >catamaran so I can live on the water and be mobile. > > > >Thanks > > > >Bob Wilson > > > > -- - Dave Anderson monkey@one.net http://w3.one.net/~monkey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:01:03 -0600 Reply-To: ega@fastlane.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ernie Aiken Organization: Worldflower Garden Domes Subject: Re: Source for hubs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This url has information that should answer your question->-> http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/patent_pending.html >From what I know (admiteddly little) it is best to keep the information secret until the patent is issued. Then if the patent is not awarded you still have a "trade secret." As a patent is supposed to fully disclose an invention, it is then made public. The problem is what if a patent application is not approved? If your idea/formula/invention/design is already public knowledge then it would be difficult to sell it, and the patent business can costs thousands of dollars, so when someone seeks a patent it is usually for financial reasons. It is so with me too. I would like to move from "weaponry" working for Lockheed-Martin-[Northrop/Grumman] collosal conglomerate to "livingry" building domes and other design and artistic puruits. What is really frustrating is seeing my own ideas developed and marketed by someone else. This has already happened and now you can see why a patent or trade secret like the Coca-Cola recipe, genetic code or drug formula can be worth millions of dollars. Ernie Brent A. Verrill wrote: > > Ernie, > > I checked out your page, http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/Patents.htm , and > was wondering why you don't post the details of your own patent. If you > have applied for your patent and it is pending, you have legal protection > against others profiting from it. At least that is my understanding. You > list the advantages of your system, but don't let us see it. Very > frustrating. > > Brent -- Worldflower Garden Domes "Geodesics for your Landscape" ->->http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/welcome.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:48:10 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: prkosuth Subject: Re: Mass Media Rediscovers the Weasel In-Reply-To: <199801271302.FAA08176@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > Kirby and everyone has the right to express themselves on this > unmoderated group. If the topic doesn't interest you, don't read it. I skipped through the material sinnce Kirby usually ties it to Fuller somehow. This time there was nothing. I thinkk that we should play it closer to Bucky and not just be a forum for this, that and the otheer thing. Paul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:02:33 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Syn-l: Re: box'o'mods' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, It is my understanding that the internal angles in the A mods are such that energy bouncing around inside tends NOT to escape through the vertices. In the B mods the internal angles tend to cause energy to "leak" out through the vertices. Sort of like a 4-D pool table with the pockets at the vertices. **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Robert Conroy Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 03:33 AM Subject: Re: Syn-l: Re: box'o'mods' >Joe, >You wrote: ><tended to conserve energy. >He made the B+ and B- quanta modules light and dark RED because they tended >to lose energy. >The modules can be marked on the sides of the Mites. Mites can compound >with themselves to fill allspace.>> > > Would you mind explaining how a Fuller A quanta supposedly conserves >energy and a B quanta loses energy? > Filling all space seems to beg the question of what space? They can >surely fill all the space of the cubic architecture of our society, but can >they fill the architecture of Nature's architecture which has symetries of >icosahedrons, dodecahedrons, and icosidodecahedrons, not withstanding its' >parallel apparent architecture of the Alexander Graham Bell's oct-tet >symetry, of which the A & B Fuller quanta fit nicely? >Bob >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:18:16 +0000 Reply-To: chardhawk@nets.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: richard hawkins Subject: Re: Syn-l: Re: box'o'mods' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Moore: > Richard, > > Bucky made the A+ and A- quanta modules light and dark BLUE because they > tended to conserve energy. > > He made the B+ and B- quanta modules light and dark RED because they tended > to lose energy. Yes I am familiar with this concept Joe, but for modeling purposes it seems appropriate to give more contrast to the colors of the + & - modules since they are not interchangeable and the colors help to differentiate. I stick with the BLUE & RED for+ but use their respective complements (ORANGE & GREEN) for -. I have added the Rhombic Dodeca, Cube, and VE to my modules page: http://www.rt66.com/~charhawk/mods.html Building these forms from the A & B modules has enhanced my understanding of them. For example, the B mods in the RD are exactly the same as the B mods in the Octa - either could be built using A mods on top of the same B mod frame. By the way, Flemming Funch and Joachim (Max) Steingrubner have moved the newciv network to a T1 server, so my website is now much easier to access and downloads are nearly 10 times faster: http://www.newciv.org/Synergetic_Geometry/ -- Richard Hawkins ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:46:23 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Test Organization: WhidbeyNet News Service Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question On 27 Jan 1998 10:54:45 GMT, d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) wrote: >In article <6ajnu8$170$2@news1.teleport.com>, wrote: >>I believe they are in error, a SSGN is useful for attacking surface >>vessels but is hardly as versitle for providing sustained air support >>for amphibious landings. > > Its hard to get the Sandboxes to fly home for reloads :) What's a SandBox? Is it an SS-N-XX????? I thought the latest missle out there was the "shipwreck" or SS-N-19, or is sandbox a generic term for cruise missle? Forgive my ignorance. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:41:58 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Levi Smismans Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium Subject: Domes in Europe I make a study on geodesic domes and I'm looking for buildings, companies, builders etc of domes in Europe !!! Email: 952278ls@beavis.hogent.be ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:22:43 +0000 Reply-To: "Paul J. Adam" Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Paul J. Adam" Organization: Wholesale Lunacy Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <34ce7f53.30209683@news.whidbey.com>, Mark Test writes > What's a SandBox? Is it an SS-N-XX????? I thought the latest >missle out there was the "shipwreck" or SS-N-19, or is sandbox a >generic term for cruise missle? Forgive my ignorance. SS-N-12 Sandbox. Carried by the Echo IIs, Slavas and Kievs. -- There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and praiseworthy... Paul J. Adam paul@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:19:24 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:04:19 -0800 X-To: synergetics-l@teleport.com From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Syn-l: VTOL-CARRYING SUBS Sender: owner-synergetics-l@teleport.com Reply-To: synergetics-l@teleport.com At 11:44 AM 1/27/98 -0800, you wrote: >For an article about submarines carrying Vertical Take-Off & Landing >aircraft see: > >"SINK THE NAVY!" by Charles C. Pease, HIGH TECHNOLOGY magazine, May 1984, >pages 13-16. > That's probably the one I was referring to on GEODESIC, retrieved for me by the archivist at Center for Defense Information (CDI) lo these many years ago. It confirms part of Fuller's narrative (that the US Navy was thinking along these lines), but not the other part (that the URS Navy was less obstructed by a greedy crew). Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:51:11 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Geodesic Dome Picture Scrapbook (http://www.harborside.com/home/p/parti/domepag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD2C2E.776B9960" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD2C2E.776B9960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geodesic Dome Project=20 =20 * * * Complete Geodesic Dome Project Book Available Soon * * * A detailed chronology - All the Steps we went through to build our dome... Filled with do's and don'ts and mistake avoiding advise * * * $ 29.95 * * *=20 =20 Click on any of the pictures below to see a full size image =20 =20 =20 =20 We're offering a step-by-step, heavily pictured book showing what we = went through as we built one of the most photographed dome homes on the = beautiful Oregon Coast. 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Please check back for = updated information. Last updated 10/20/97 - URL:http//www.harborside.com/home/p/parti =20 Take this link back to C & R Enterprise's HOME Page. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD2C2E.776B9960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geodesic Dome Picture = Scrapbook

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Click on any of the pictures below to see a = full size=20 image

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This presentation is under development. Please check back for = updated=20 information.
Last updated 10/20/97 -=20 URL:http//www.harborside.com/home/p/parti

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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD2C2E.776B9960-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:00:14 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Math Makeover 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcement: The 'Math Makeover of 1998' is proceeding on schedule. Some private sector initiatives around bolstering the math curriculum are now spelled out in more detail at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/mathcenter.html The goal is to form public/private partnerships aimed at supporting local communities with better access to curriculum tools synched with the real needs of the high tech sector for qualified personnel. Kirby Curriculum writer 4D Solutions --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:43:52 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Filip De Vos Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium Subject: Re: Mass Media Rediscovers the Weasel Dennis Johnson (djohnson@NATURALSPACESDOMES.COM) wrote: : Kirby : Regarding your latest editorial - I thought this was a "List for : the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works" ?!! In defence of Kirby, I must draw your attention to Bucky's insistence to correct language (calling Kiyoshi Kuromiya 'adjuvant' rather than 'collaborator', his search for a better phrase than the sun 'setting' and 'rising'). : I had to read the whole _ _ _ _ thing because I figured there must : be a link to Bucky's life or work somewhere. But no ! : If I did want to hear any more of that garbage, I could tune into : CNN any time of the day. I'm sure there are appropriate lists : and chat rooms for what you wrote - and I hope you don't try to : "stretch" the purpose of this list to encompass some obscure Heh I just did. : connection in your diatribe. It just shouldn't be here. -- Filip De Vos FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system. -- John S. Lewis -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:01:10 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Filip De Vos Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Kirby Urner (pdx4d@teleport.com) wrote: : pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner) wrote: : PS: I _was_ able to confirm at least a part of Fuller's narrative, : that the US Navy had at one time lusted for such machines -- some : article dug out by the archivist at Center for Defense Information : (CDI) in Washington, DC over a decade ago by now (sorry, I don't : have my photocopy handy). I must say I find the flat denials here : in newsgroups refreshing -- in the past, LAWCAP seemed incapable I have seen hypothethic submarine-aircraft-carrier-hydrofoils in pages of the usual popular science magazines. They required VTOL jets as well. I think they represented wishfull thinking of some naval officers, and of defence industry PR departments... : of coming clean with a straight yes or no re such a basic, simple : question of fact (seems a hallmark of that failed regime -- truth : in public is beyond its ken, a shortcoming that has proved very : expensive to earthlings). Fact is that one class of ship build by the Soviets was a sort of a normal cruiser, with a huge deck grafted on to the rear, the ship able to deploy scores of anti-sub helis (Kamovs). It was defeated by the next generation of Polaris missiles, which allowed US ballistic subs to stand off farther from Soviet shores, giving them more ocean to hide in. Regulars of sci.military.naval will surely be able to supply the name of the vessels. -- Filip De Vos FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system. -- John S. Lewis -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:40:48 -0600 Reply-To: jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Jim Nugent (the elder)" Organization: Digital Art & Design Solutions Subject: Math AND Bucky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've noticed that mathematics is often discussed on this list in addition to RBF. For what it's worth, here's a note that ties both together. In the late 60's and early 70's, Bucky was associated with a mathematics curriculum project in Carbondale, Illinois. It was called The Comprehensive School Mathematics Program (CSMP) and it was performed under the auspices of the Central Midwest Regional Educational Laboratory (CEMREL) in St. Louis. Thought this might be of interest so I'm posting it here. For a few years, CSMP held conferences on mathematics in Carbondale which were attended by mathematicians from around the world including H. M. S. Coxeter and R. B. Fuller. Bucky and Coxeter along with many others, presented lectures on their work that were followed by Q&A sessions. The material discussed in the conferences served as a basis for what would be included in the K-12 math curriculum that was being developed by CSMP. There probably are transcripts and/or tapes of these meetings somewhere. I think Bucky gave a keynote presentation one year that riled a few professional mathematical feathers. I don't recall specific information except for some trivial items related to the conferences, like the mathematician from Bloomington, Indiana who came into the CSMP office the day before a conference was to start and asked for his travel allowance in advance. It seems that he depended on his mother, who was approaching 90 years of age, so much that he had brought her with him in the taxi all the way from Indiana because she wouldn't fly in an airplane. I do remember seeing Coxeter, as he listened to the various speakers, working away with a compass and straightedge. He always seemed to have his geometry tools at hand. -------------------------------------------------------- Comprehensive School Mathematics Program The Comprehensive School Mathematics Program(CSMP) is both an exciting and powerful complete K-6 mathematics curriculum that focuses on problem solving and concept development. Its unique approach allows even very young children to grasp mathematical concepts and ideas. Using a variety of situational teaching methods; graphic, non-verbal "languages;" colorful and unusual manipulatives--even fantasy stories--CSMP activates the imagination of young children and engages them in a fascinating exploration of mathematics, from developing basic skills to solving complex problems. This comprehensive curriculum is proven effective with all types of students at all ability levels. For more information, e-mail Clare Heidema or phone her at 303-743-5520. The following URL provides more information on CSMP: http://www.mcrel.org/products/csmp/ -------------------------------------------------- Jim Nugent 2309 Blackhawk Road Springfield, Illinois 62702-1369 U.S.A. 217-525-6704 jnugent@hrn.bradley.edu http://www.fgi.net/~jnugent/ -------------------------------------------------- In dwelling, live close to the ground. In thinking, keep to the simple. In conflict, be fair and generous. In governing, don't try to control. In work, do what you enjoy. In family life, be completely present. Tao Te Ching ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:00:15 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Seeking web pages re international law and war crimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: Students of enviro-law, diplomacy, computer simulations Re: Biochem Leakage through US action and the Hanford Chem Weapons Stockpile (Iraq as precedent) I'm looking for web pages detailing the legal arguments protecting the US from any criminal charges if its weapons inadvertently unleash biochem agents which spread to surrounding populations in Iraq or in neighboring countries. I realize the US is testing weapons to incinerate all such agents on impact, using special high temperature shells on specially designed smart bombs (CBS News Jan 28 98), but there's always a chance of knocking over some test tubes in a lab or storage unit and causing lethal gases to become airborne. Note that in the Gulf war we have some evidence that chemical weapons were inadvertently visited upon the US by its own troops, when a weapons storage facility was improperly dealt with. I'm sure the State Department has already studied this contingency and has the appropriate diplomatic responses already printed and filed, but I'm hoping to get a preview before we see it unfold in real time. We have a chemical weapons stockpile out here at Hanford in Washington State that is likely to be the target of similar incineration technologies at some point, although without the smart bomb delivery system, and the people of Hermiston and other centers might like to get a sense of what the legal dimensions and PR spin will be if any of this technology proves less than fool proof. Kirby Please send email: pdx4d@teleport.com --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:41:36 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: DMWL EXAMPLE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another Doing-More-With-Less (DMWL) example: (Note: All DMWL examples fit elliptical curves.) COST PER MEG (HARD DRIVES) $11.50 X X X X YEAR PRICE X 1988 $11.54 $11.00 X 1989 9.30 X 1990 6.86 X 1991 5.23 X 1992 3.00 X 1993 1.46 $10.50 X 1994 .71 X 1995 .33 X 1996 .18 X 1997 .10 X 1998 .07 $10.00 X 1999 .04 X 2000 .03 X X Source: San Jose Mercury News, 12-30-97, pgs 1A & 8A X (Newspaper, San Jose, CA, USA) $ 9.50 X X X X X X X X $ 9.00 X X X X X X X X X X $ 8.50 X X X X X X X X X X $ 8.00 X X X X X X X X X X $ 7.50 X X X X X X X X X X $ 7.00 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 6.50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 6.00 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 5.50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 5.00 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 4.50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 4.00 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 3.50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 3.00 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 2.50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 2.00 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 1.50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X $ 1.00 X X X X X X $ .90 X X X X X X $ .80 X X X X X X $ .70 X X X X X X X $ .60 X X X X X X X $ .50 X X X X X X X $ .40 X X X X X X X $ .30 X X X X X X X X $ .20 X X X X X X X X X $ .10 X X X X X X X X X X x $ .00 X X X X X X X X X X X X x --------------------------------------------- Y 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 E 8 8 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 0 A 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 0 R 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:09:08 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: JENSTO Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question This concept was also brought out in an old article of Popular Mechanics or Popular Science many years ago (10+). Never beyond the conept stage that I know of. It would probably be prohibitively expensive and too huge to work effectively. We did build missile submarines to launch the Regulas and Regulas II misiles about 30 years ago. These missiles were early cruse missiles with large wings. Each ship could carry two. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:04:36 GMT Reply-To: box2321@teleport.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Organization: box2321.com Subject: Tensegrity & Castaneda I have read that Carlos Castaneda has adopted or become associated with "tensegrity," Buckminster Fuller's name for a creation by Ken Snelson. Anyone interested in the story of tensegrity, Fuller and Snelson is directed to http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/snelson.html Ken Snelson' home page is http://www.inch.com/ken101/ and concerns his model for the atom. I know of no mention of Castaneda in the works of Fuller or Snelson. I would be glad to learn how (or if) Castaneda has made use of 'tensegrity' - please send URLs or references. Recommended reading for Castaneda would include his books and the books of Richard de Mille (Castaneda's Journey and The Don Juan Papers) about Castaneda. Follow-ups to: bit.listserv.geodesic -- Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:14:30 +1100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Frank Kirk Organization: Relax Inc. Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Filip De Vos wrote: > > Fact is that one class of ship build by the Soviets was a sort of a normal > cruiser, with a huge deck grafted on to the rear, the ship able to deploy > scores of anti-sub helis (Kamovs). > > It was defeated by the next generation of Polaris missiles, which allowed > US ballistic subs to stand off farther from Soviet shores, giving them > more ocean to hide in. > > Regulars of sci.military.naval will surely be able to supply the name of > the vessels. > Moskov class helo cruiser. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:13:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Re: Tensegrity & Castaneda Comments: To: box2321@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor, Snelson's home page address should be http://www.inch.com/~ken101/ (You left off the "~") **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: P. O. Box 2321 Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 04:29 AM Subject: Tensegrity & Castaneda >I have read that Carlos Castaneda has adopted or become associated with >"tensegrity," Buckminster Fuller's name for a creation by Ken Snelson. > >Anyone interested in the story of tensegrity, Fuller and Snelson is >directed to > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/snelson.html > >Ken Snelson' home page is > http://www.inch.com/ken101/ >and concerns his model for the atom. > >I know of no mention of Castaneda in the works of Fuller or Snelson. I >would be glad to learn how (or if) Castaneda has made use of >'tensegrity' - please send URLs or references. > >Recommended reading for Castaneda would include his books and the books >of Richard de Mille (Castaneda's Journey and The Don Juan Papers) about >Castaneda. > >Follow-ups to: bit.listserv.geodesic > >-- > Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ > Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:21:27 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Joe S. Moore" Subject: Fw: Syn-l: west coast visit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit **************************************** * Joe S. Moore * Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar * joemoore@mail.cruzio.com * Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute * http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Gerald A. de Jong To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 06:35 AM Subject: Syn-l: west coast visit >i will once again be attending JavaOne in San Francisco, which is >at the end of march this year (24-27). this year things will be different >because i'll be making a vacation of it with my whole crew (partner, >4-yr-old, and infant). this means i won't be able to travel north to >meet up with Kirby or Karl, but our plans are to take a car over to >Santa Cruz on the 28th and spend a week there or thereabouts. >looking forward to it, and excited to meet up with anybody who either >lives in the area or can get there during our stay. >--- >Gerald de Jong, Rotterdam NL, gdj@xs4all.nl >Elastic Interval Geometry - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gdj >Unite for Java! - http://www.javalobby.org > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:10:17 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: USSR Submarine Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fidevos@eduserv1.rug.ac.be (Filip De Vos) wrote: >I have seen hypothethic submarine-aircraft-carrier-hydrofoils in pages of >the usual popular science magazines. They required VTOL jets as well. > Yeah, lots of science fiction in these mags -- especially the cover art. You've probably already seen: we've found the article in question (re US Navy centerfold fantasies) in HIGH TECHNOLOGY magazine. >Fact is that one class of ship build by the Soviets was a sort of a normal >cruiser, with a huge deck grafted on to the rear, the ship able to deploy >scores of anti-sub helis (Kamovs). > Yeah, I've seen pictures of such creatures. The helis were called "hormones" or something -- I always enjoyed the silly names applied by NATO taxonomists to Soviet counterpart contraptions. Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:22:20 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Organization: 4D Solutions Subject: Re: Tensegrity & Castaneda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit box2321@teleport.com (P. O. Box 2321) wrote: >I have read that Carlos Castaneda has adopted or become associated with >"tensegrity," Buckminster Fuller's name for a creation by Ken Snelson. > >Anyone interested in the story of tensegrity, Fuller and Snelson is >directed to > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/snelson.html > >Ken Snelson' home page is > http://www.inch.com/ken101/ >and concerns his model for the atom. > Ken was more just playing around with HTML here. For the really good presentation of his atomic model see: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/snelson/Portrait.html >I know of no mention of Castaneda in the works of Fuller or Snelson. I >would be glad to learn how (or if) Castaneda has made use of >'tensegrity' - please send URLs or references. > You'll find what you're looking for at: http://omega-inst.org/spotlight/tensegrity.html Also, you'll find a write-up re Casteneda w/ mention of tensegrity in Utne Reader not too long ago (some Renaissance Vulcan on the cover as I recall). Ken thinks Castaneda's inserting himself in the tensegrity motif is a symptom of Bucky's having loosened up the meaning too much, turning everything to jello. Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:27:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Re: Tensegrity & Castaneda Comments: To: "Joe S. Moore" In-Reply-To: <000c01bd2e73$f8bd1560$dcdae3a5@kelp220.cruzio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, Joe S. Moore wrote: > Snelson's home page address should be http://www.inch.com/~ken101/ (You left > off the "~") Joe is correct - use the above URL. -- Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:35:55 -0600 Reply-To: kenneth_hopper@bigfoot.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kenneth Hopper Organization: Token Press http://www.tokenpress.com Subject: Re: Tensegrity & Castaneda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------msDC5912D94C04DE67A045EB40" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------msDC5912D94C04DE67A045EB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Trevor, see if this helps? Assembage point is a convergence of "luminous filaments" of the energy of Universe. The dreamer's art is to shift this point amidst the converging of a virtually unlimited number of such threads, never a complete collection of all possibilities. Because this is done willfully, it involves the integrety of the individual perception and the tensions of the energies being assembled? (trying to make some words, but words aren't enough.) P. O. Box 2321 wrote: > I have read that Carlos Castaneda has adopted or become associated with > "tensegrity," Buckminster Fuller's name for a creation by Ken Snelson. > > Anyone interested in the story of tensegrity, Fuller and Snelson is > directed to > http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/snelson.html > > Ken Snelson' home page is > http://www.inch.com/ken101/ > and concerns his model for the atom. > > I know of no mention of Castaneda in the works of Fuller or Snelson. I > would be glad to learn how (or if) Castaneda has made use of > 'tensegrity' - please send URLs or references. > > Recommended reading for Castaneda would include his books and the books > of Richard de Mille (Castaneda's Journey and The Don Juan Papers) about > Castaneda. > > Follow-ups to: bit.listserv.geodesic > > -- > Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ > Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States ------ They decided, therefore, to rescue the magical passes from their obscure state. They created in this fashion, Tensegrity, which is a term proper to architecture that means "the property of skeleton structures that employ continuous tension members and discontinuous compression members in such a way that each member operates with the maximum efficiency and economy." This is a most appropriate name because it is a mixture of two terms: tension and integrity; terms which connote the two driving forces of the magical passes. As excerpted from Carlos Castaneda's Readers of Infinity, Number 1, Volume 1, 1996. Published by Cleargreen, Incorporated, (c) Copyright 1996, Laugan Productions, Incorporated. 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O. Box 2321" Organization: box2321.com Subject: Re: Tensegrity & Castaneda Kirby Urner : >box2321@teleport.com (P. O. Box 2321) wrote: >>I know of no mention of Castaneda in the works of Fuller or Snelson. I >>would be glad to learn how (or if) Castaneda has made use of >>'tensegrity' - please send URLs or references. > >You'll find what you're looking for at: >http://omega-inst.org/spotlight/tensegrity.html I have viewed the above URL; it does a disservice to living artists like Ken Snelson and living cultures like the Yaqui. Regarding Ken, it's not the first time this kind of things has happened but he and others have told that story much more clearly than I can [1]. Regarding the Yaqui, Richard de Mille's books 'Castaneda's Journey' and 'The Don Juan Papers' establish most clearly that Castaneda uses the Yaqui - a real, living culture - as a vehicle for his own philosophy. His own philosophy can stand or fall on its own terms, but pretending to be or have a connection with the Yaqui to express it comes across to me as on par with black-face minstral shows: flat out racism. Buckminster Fuller (among many others past and present) rightly pointed out that the distinct cultures of the world are blending. That's very different from stealing from other cultures, wearing their skins, passing oneself off as something one is not. Gurdjieff was another teacher excused from penalty when he lied to his students because his lies were told to teach us lessons - trickster as teacher (or is it teacher as trickser?). And Gurdjieff too 'discovered' ancient dances and movements later in his career, just as Castaneda's 'tensegrity' dances and movements have been discovered and are being presented later in his career. I encourage people to study the history of Ken Snelson's work, and to read the books of Richard de Mille regarding Castaneda. [1] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/snelson.html -- Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States

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This presentation is under development. Please check back for = updated=20 information.Last updated 10/20/97 -=20 URL:http//www.harborside.com/home/p/parti

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*** * * Complete Geodesic Dome Project Book = Available=20 Soon * * ***

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Filled with do's and = don'ts
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