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Date:         Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:00:08 -0800
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From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
                           -----------------------
                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Mar 1998 08:08:59 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         dbaer@WIZARDSINC.NET
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Subject:      Dyna-Dome Connector System

It seems I have stired some curiosity with the posting about Dyna-
Dome....keep in mind that this is a very old connector system that was
developed prior to the hubs like Monterey and Timberline. The hub is not a
star shaped device like these companies use(d), but rather a series of struts
are bolted to the center hub (a section of pipe) which form the hub. All the
struts are straight cut (no compound or miter angles), then metal end pieces
are attached to the ends of the struts. The end pieces generate the required
angles necessary for the dome. This is not a greenhouse back-yard project
kit. I built a 35' 5'8 3v icosa with this connector system that turned out to
be a very nice 3 bedroom home. I would be happy to post all the information I
have about this dome (including in-progress photos of the dome I mentioned)on
my website should anyone care to take a look?

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:24:57 GMT+0200
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Venter, Dawie" <dawie@I1.IPLAN.CO.ZA>
Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office
Subject:      Re: Dyna-Dome Connector System
In-Reply-To:  <6dbq59$200$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

Dave
-----------snipped---------
> I would be happy to post all the information I
> have about this dome (including in-progress photos of the dome I mentioned)on
> my website should anyone care to take a look?

Yes, yes please do.  What is your URL?

Thanks in advance
Dawie Venter
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:55:57 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Trimariner <trimar@INTERGATE.BC.CA>
Subject:      Re: Dyna-Dome Connector System
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You wrote:


>It seems I have stired some curiosity with the posting about Dyna-
>Dome

snip

Would love to see the pictures and information. Please post. Thanks

Bob Wilson
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:51:56 GMT
Reply-To:     mithril@iafrica.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Grantland <mithril@IAFRICA.COM>
Organization: opinions international etc.
Subject:      toets

jelly-toets!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:56:15 -0800
Reply-To:     "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@teleport.com>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
Comments: cc: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

While reading Ed Applewhite's "Cosmic Fishing" I was reminded of the great
amount of audio recordings of Buckminster Fuller.  While it is fortunate
that such recordings exist, the media is unstable: audio and video tape
begin to lose fidelity within a few years, and within one or two decades
some recordings are lost forever.  CDs have a demonstrated lifespan of
only a few decades.  Only vinyl records and film soundtracks can be
demonstrated to last more than a few decades [1].

It is not feasable to transfer all or even many of Fuller's recordings to
vinyl or film.  One solution might be to diseminate Fuller's recordings
more widely: if the recordings existed in many places, they would have
that much more likelyhood of surviving until a more long-term media could
be employed.

There are a number of free and inexpensive computer programs that even a
modest computer can use to convert audio into digital information [2].
This information could be put online, downloaded by many people all over
the world, and thereby have a greater chance of surviving into the next
Century (where, one hopes, software that can transcribe and index
recordings will be perfected).

The papers of Buckminster Fuller are generally safe for some time to come.
But the magnetic recordings, even the best recordings, are doomed.  I
encourage anyone with recordings of Buckminster Fuller (particularly the
BFI) to make those recordings available online as soon as possible.

[1] Dead Media Project
    URL: http://griffin.multimedia.edu/~deadmedia/

[2] EarthStation1: The Recommended Shareware & Freeware Page
    URL: http://earthstation1.simplenet.com/software.html

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:48:43 -0800
Reply-To:     oregon@ordata.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@ORDATA.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc.
Subject:      Re: Domes in europe
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I hate to ask, but I would appreciate it if you did not post this owners
name and address.  Our owners are very gracious to show their homes for
us, but we do not want to wear them out with many unsolicited requests.
We want to protect their privacy, and even "drive by" views can be
disturbing.

If you would like to visit this home, please contact me at Oregon Dome.
I will call the owner and have them make contact with you to set a time
and date for a tour.  They will also give you directions then.

Tognon Marco wrote:
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Oregon Dome wrote to you...
>
> "Our most recent European dome was raised in Northern Germany about a
> year and a half ago.  It was a 45' diameter, 3v, 3/8 sphere dome."
>
> I have been there, together with my carpenter friend.
> The dome wasn't finished yet, although the owner/builders lived in it.
>
> The dome is situated at the end of a dead-end street, surrounded with
> "normal" houses.
> The dome is not disturbing the view at all and is in fact very nice to see,
> from any viewpoint.
>
> We drove 650 Km to visit it. Close to Hamburg. We asked the owners if we
> could come and they whare very pleased to hear from our interest.
>
> I took some pictures of it and if interested, I can digitalize and mail
> them to you.
> Mean while I will try find the address and telephone number.
>
> It's good to hear that we are no longer alone...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marco.Tognon@ping.be

--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:25:49 GMT+0200
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Venter, Dawie" <dawie@I1.IPLAN.CO.ZA>
Organization: Infoplan, Cape Regional Office
Subject:      E-mail problems
In-Reply-To:  <6dbq59$200$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

There seems to have been a problem with our service provider.  Please
re-submit any direct mail to me dated, 2 March 1998.

I am checking the archives for any missed threads.

Thanks
Dawie Venter
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:05:14 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Cliff Steer <csteer@AEI.CA>
Subject:      Re: Bill Wood's Dyna-Dome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Saturday, February 28, 1998 10:02 AM, JFBECKETT [SMTP:jfbeckett@AOL.COM] wrote:
> >
> Dawie was good enough to send me a very informative and enjoyable article he
> wrote on building a small "shed" sized, garden dome recently. If this system
> could be incorporated in any way I'd sure like to know something about it.
>
Could you please forward a copy of this article - I too am very interested in building  asmall dome
Thanks
Ann Steer
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 02:38:10 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Filip De Vos <fidevos@EDUSERV1.RUG.AC.BE>
Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium
Subject:      Iraqi cameras pointing wrong way

A short while ago, when the posturing was still going on, I caught some
item on CNN about those cameras that supposedly helps the UN verify that
Iraq does not make Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). Presumably the
screens were those pictures are controlled are in UN or Coalition hands.

But where are the cameras that control the weapons that are pointed at
Iraqis? I suppose they would like some control about American weapons
pointed at them.

Even though I suppose the value of cameras in Sandia Labs would be minor
to them, as opposed to say, cameras on board aircraft carriers in the
Gulf, or air bases in Saudi-Arabia...

Taking a step away from the focus on cameras and inspection-teams, no
method of control can build up trust, if the protagonists decide not to,
or seem to have made their minds up in advance. Seen in this light, those
cameras and inspection-teams seem more like a method to perpetuate the
conflict, by providing excuses and unmeetable demands, than to resolve it.

One cause for the conflict, the alledged slant-drilling or pumping from
oil-fields that straddle the border, remains unadressed. And of course,
the distrust generated by this and other conflicts in the area precludes
the building of networks of regional commerce, transport, travel,
communications, let alone regional GENI-like powergrids...


--
      Filip De Vos                        FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be

          There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
                       --   John S. Lewis   --
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 02:25:23 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Linda Hunt <huntlin@WEBTV.NET>
Organization: WebTV Subscriber
Subject:      ASP; Begginner needs guidance
Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 As of the last few days i have taken an uncanny interest in geodesic
domes and am trying to learn as much as possible.
  As i have a dream of building my own geo-dome for a home i am seeking
information at a layman's level describing the ins and outs of
construction,cost,options,ect.
  Any advice on good books,videos or websites would be deeply
appreciated.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:06:19 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      ASP; Begginner needs guidance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Linda,
You wrote:
<<As of the last few days i have taken an uncanny interest in geodesic
domes and am trying to learn as much as possible......
  Any advice on good books,videos or websites would be deeply
appreciated.>>

I have a WEB site which gives layout plans for a basic 32' wood truss, pl=
us
it gives colored photos of the fabrication steps along with a colored pho=
to
presentation of the erection for both a 24' & 32' truss.  It also has pla=
ns
for a 30' concrete open dome I built along with details of it's
construction.  The site also presents some of the geometry incorporated
into the presented domes.
Bob
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:49:51 PST
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      energy
Content-Type: text/plain

i send this for the archives. if you don't like numbers, you can
delete the message. you can also look at the general picture and find
overall patterns.

this numbers relate to fuller energy calculation.
it is clear how much energy is needed in order to reach the level of
U.S.

of course to understand the whole picture you needs more careful search.
the energy institute jini know more about the subject.

energy use and production in Asia and United States

            average annual    energy use         electricity  system
            energy growth     per capita 1992    production   losses
            1980-93           kg of energy      per capita 92  1992
                                                 kwh            %

Bangladesh     7.9              59                79            32
China          5.1             623               647             7
India          6.7             242               373             23
INodnesia      7.5             321               233             17
Korea          9.2            2.863             2.996             5
Nepal          8.1               22                45            24
Pakistan       6.8              209               435            17
Philippines   3.5              328               419            13
Sri Lanka      1.9              110               200            17
Thailand      10.5              678              1000            10

United States  1.4             7.918            12,900            8

East asia need for infrastructure needs 1.2-1.5 trillion dollars
over the next decade; this will include power generation,
telecommunications, transport, and water.

reference
from Finance&Development/december 1997

tagdi

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:29:06 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Curt Flowers <cjflower@UIUC.EDU>
Organization: University of Illinois
Subject:      Re: ASP; Begginner needs guidance
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Linda Hunt wrote:
>
>  As of the last few days i have taken an uncanny interest in geodesic
> domes and am trying to learn as much as possible.
>   As i have a dream of building my own geo-dome for a home i am seeking
> information at a layman's level describing the ins and outs of
> construction,cost,options,ect.
>   Any advice on good books,videos or websites would be deeply
> appreciated.

Try: http://www.critpath.org/bfi/index.html and click "Make Connections"
Or:  http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

Both these sites can point you in many many valuable directions and are
well done and easy to use.
There are also many other resources. If these two don't satisfy you,
post again.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:22:56 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Curt Flowers <cjflower@UIUC.EDU>
Organization: University of Illinois
Subject:      Re: Iraqi cameras pointing wrong way
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This must have been posted to bit.listserv.geodesic by mistake, as it
has nothing to do with geodesic anything.

Filip De Vos wrote:
>
> A short while ago, when the posturing was still going on, I caught some
> item on CNN about those cameras that supposedly helps the UN verify that
> Iraq does not make Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). Presumably the
> screens were those pictures are controlled are in UN or Coalition hands.
>
> But where are the cameras that control the weapons that are pointed at
> Iraqis? I suppose they would like some control about American weapons
> pointed at them.
>
> Even though I suppose the value of cameras in Sandia Labs would be minor
> to them, as opposed to say, cameras on board aircraft carriers in the
> Gulf, or air bases in Saudi-Arabia...
>
> Taking a step away from the focus on cameras and inspection-teams, no
> method of control can build up trust, if the protagonists decide not to,
> or seem to have made their minds up in advance. Seen in this light, those
> cameras and inspection-teams seem more like a method to perpetuate the
> conflict, by providing excuses and unmeetable demands, than to resolve it.
>
> One cause for the conflict, the alledged slant-drilling or pumping from
> oil-fields that straddle the border, remains unadressed. And of course,
> the distrust generated by this and other conflicts in the area precludes
> the building of networks of regional commerce, transport, travel,
> communications, let alone regional GENI-like powergrids...
>
> --
>       Filip De Vos                        FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be
>
>           There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
>                        --   John S. Lewis   --
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:37:25 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <Bullywug@AMERICA.NET>
Subject:      Re: ASP; Begginner needs guidance
In-Reply-To:  <6dlnhj$3qs$1@newsd-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> As of the last few days i have taken an uncanny interest in geodesic
>domes and am trying to learn as much as possible.
>  As i have a dream of building my own geo-dome for a home i am seeking
>information at a layman's level describing the ins and outs of
>construction,cost,options,ect.
>  Any advice on good books,videos or websites would be deeply
>appreciated.

Linda,

There are many rescources both on and off of the net about geodesic domes.
I think that all of the books that deal specifically with the construction
of domes are out of print and are difficult to find, however they offer a
very good view of how a dome goes together.  The ones I am thinking of
specifically are _Domebook 1_, _Domebook 2_, and _The Dome Builder's
Handbook No. 2_.  Try your library first and if they don't have them ask
about an inter-library loan.  If you're desperate to get your hands on one
of these, try a used book search at http://www.interloc.com/ or
http://www.bibliofind.com/.

As for films, I can recommend two very highly, though they don't
specifically deal with domes.  The first is _Ecological Design:  Inventing
the Future_ by Brian Danitz and Chris Zelov.  This film is narrated, as
coincidence would have it, by Linda Hunt. (You?)  It has many interviews
with designers, architects, and scientists who have been influenced by
Bucky and carry on his work in one way or another.  I would characterize
this film as Bucky's legacy.  It is available from Chelsea Green Publishing
at 1-800-639-4099.

The other film is _Buckminster Fuller:  Thinking Out Loud_.  This film ran
as part of PBS's American Masters series.  It is a biographical film about
his life.  PBS maintains a web site that coincides with the film at
http://www.wnet.org/archive/bucky.cgi.  I think the film itself is
available at the Buckminster Fuller Institute
http://www.critpath.org/bfi/index.html.

There are many web sites out there on both domes and Fuller's work.  The
best starting point is probably Joe Moore's site
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/.  He maintains a list of dome
manufacturers and builders with web links.  This list includes dome makers
of all sizes from the greenhouse to the dome's that cover the tops of
chemical and petroleum storage tanks.  Joe also has links to other sites
maintained by scholars and enthusiasts of Fuller's work.

I hope this helps,

Brent

P.S.  I loved your performance in _Dune_.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:19:08 GMT
Reply-To:     mithril@iafrica.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Grantland <mithril@IAFRICA.COM>
Organization: opinions international etc.
Subject:      Re: A Geodesic Society?

Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG> wrote:

>---------- Forwarded message ----------
><original header snipped>
>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:24:07 -0500
>To: gis-ec@nikkei.co.jp, gis-net@nikkei.co.jp
>From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
>Subject: [gis-asia 10] A Geodesic Society?
>Cc: gis-asia@nikkei.co.jp
>Reply-To: gis-asia@nikkei.co.jp
>X-MLserver: majordomo-1.94.1 k-patch-2.0-alpha p-patch-1.0
>X-sequence: gis-asia 10
>Sender: owner-gis-asia@tokyo.nikkei.co.jp
>Precedence: bulk

<snip>

BADGER AWARD!
GOLD CLASS!

....---- :::: """
                              Yea o Veritator!

          Witness here in sight of GOD and MAN

That SINGULAR and HONOURABLE distinction, recognition

<flourish of trumpets>

   !!!!!! TARAA! TARAAA! TA_TA_TATARA TATAAA !!!!!!

                          ! ALL HAIL THE BADGER !

                   !!! TA_TA TAAaaa, TAA TARaaaaa !!!

                            All Hail, All Hail, all Hail

                                           All HAIL

                                     The BADGER!


Awarded to         on           for     etc. etc. etc.

(Gold Class)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:57:52 GMT
Reply-To:     mithril@iafrica.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Grantland <mithril@IAFRICA.COM>
Organization: opinions international etc.
Subject:      Re: A Geodesic Society?

mithril@iafrica.com (Grantland) wrote:

>Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG> wrote:
>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>><original header snipped>
>>--- begin forwarded text
>>
>>
>>X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:24:07 -0500
>>To: gis-ec@nikkei.co.jp, gis-net@nikkei.co.jp
>>From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
>>Subject: [gis-asia 10] A Geodesic Society?
>>Cc: gis-asia@nikkei.co.jp
>>Reply-To: gis-asia@nikkei.co.jp
>>X-MLserver: majordomo-1.94.1 k-patch-2.0-alpha p-patch-1.0
>>X-sequence: gis-asia 10
>>Sender: owner-gis-asia@tokyo.nikkei.co.jp
>>Precedence: bulk
>
><snip>
>
>BADGER AWARD!

Actually it's more than  than geodesic communication - its a
self-organizing system comprisng an emergent SUPER-ORGANISM ultimate
synergy of cells, with a body, organs and a brain.  With the Internet
comes - self-consciousnress.  The Gaia awakes.

Grantland

(the Gaia Messiah)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:28:10 -0800
Reply-To:     mburr@halcyon.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Burr <mburr@HALCYON.COM>
Subject:      Re: ASP; Begginner needs guidance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey Linda,  are you the Linda Hunt that went to Glacier HS in Seattle?

Linda Hunt wrote:

>  As of the last few days i have taken an uncanny interest in geodesic
> domes and am trying to learn as much as possible.
>   As i have a dream of building my own geo-dome for a home i am seeking
> information at a layman's level describing the ins and outs of
> construction,cost,options,ect.
>   Any advice on good books,videos or websites would be deeply
> appreciated.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:19:36 +0100
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         tom aagdii <aagdii@DDS.NL>
Subject:      synergy
In-Reply-To:  <19980306141239.1521.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>
> from an article in DISCOVER magazine:
>
> compact summary:
> Suzanne Simard in an experiment found that shaded trees took far more
> carbon from their sun-drenched neighbors than they gave.
> in this case the shaded is Duglas fir, and the other tree is birch.
>
> birch-fast growing- is considered a weed, Douglas fir is slow growing.
> she found that the fungus( in the roots) was managing the trees,
> extracting carbon from healthy ones and pumping it to shaded ones,
> regardless of species. the fungus gave shaded trees 6% or more co2,
> and amount that can ultimately make the difference between being able
> to produce seeds and being barren.
>
> this general case shows that competition is not the rule in  nature,
> everything depend on synergy.
>
> tagdi
>
> / DISCOVER magazine, november 1997.
>
 *fir is a dominante  tree in the temprate north.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:30:47 -0800
Reply-To:     oregon@ordata.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@ORDATA.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc.
Subject:      Re: ASP; Begginner needs guidance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Linda,

We have a web site that has numerous pictures, plans and information.
The address is:

http://www.domes.com

Please feel free to drop us a note if you have any questions.

Linda Hunt wrote:
>
>  As of the last few days i have taken an uncanny interest in geodesic
> domes and am trying to learn as much as possible.
>   As i have a dream of building my own geo-dome for a home i am seeking
> information at a layman's level describing the ins and outs of
> construction,cost,options,ect.
>   Any advice on good books,videos or websites would be deeply
> appreciated.

--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Mar 1998 09:01:07 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Filip De Vos <fidevos@EDUSERV1.RUG.AC.BE>
Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium
Subject:      Re: Iraqi cameras pointing wrong way

Curt Flowers (cjflower@uiuc.edu) wrote:
: This must have been posted to bit.listserv.geodesic by mistake, as it
: has nothing to do with geodesic anything.

Using technology, including communications and energy grids, to increase
human sustenance and joy of living, disregard for borders (which are
artificial contructs anyway, banned by patent from Bucky's geodesic map
-and it is difficult to find an area were borders are more artificial) all
are _on_topic for bit.listserv.geodesic.

(In act, I fell prey to using a nation-bordered frame of reference myself
when commenting on the alledged slant-drilling)

: Filip De Vos wrote:

: >
: > One cause for the conflict, the alledged slant-drilling or pumping from
: > oil-fields that straddle the border, remains unadressed. And of course,
: > the distrust generated by this and other conflicts in the area precludes
: > the building of networks of regional commerce, transport, travel,
: > communications, let alone regional GENI-like powergrids...


--
      Filip De Vos                        FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be

          There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
                       --   John S. Lewis   --
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Mar 1998 16:43:12 +0200
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dawie Venter <dventer@ILINK.NIS.ZA>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
wrote:

> While reading Ed Applewhite's "Cosmic Fishing" I was reminded of the
great
> amount of audio recordings of Buckminster Fuller.  While it is fortunate
> that such recordings exist, the media is unstable: audio and video tape
> begin to lose fidelity within a few years, and within one or two decades
> some recordings are lost forever.  CDs have a demonstrated lifespan of
> only a few decades.  Only vinyl records and film soundtracks can be
> demonstrated to last more than a few decades [1].

I think the printed copies of some of the early dome books are also in
danger of becomming lost forever through age.  I am fortunate to have a
copy  of DomeBook 2, The Dome Builder's Handbook and Dome Builder's
Handbook No.2.

My copy of Domebook 2 dates from 1974 and the pages are beginning to turn
yellow and the edges crumbling badly through frequent use and age.  I
believe none of these books are in print anymore and copies are notoriously
difficult to obtain anywhere.

I concur with the idea that the contents be copied to the WWW so that it
will survive and be freely available.

> It is not feasable to transfer all or even many of Fuller's recordings to
> vinyl or film.  One solution might be to diseminate Fuller's recordings
> more widely: if the recordings existed in many places, they would have
> that much more likelyhood of surviving until a more long-term media could
> be employed.


[1] Dead Media Project
    URL: http://griffin.multimedia.edu/~deadmedia/

[2] EarthStation1: The Recommended Shareware & Freeware Page
    URL: http://earthstation1.simplenet.com/software.html

Dawie Venter
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Mar 1998 09:44:22 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

I think it would be great to have a digital repository for out-of-print
dome works.
Copyright would be a major problem.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:09:57 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      World-Around Resource
Comments: cc: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Spaceship E. imaging (graphics required)
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:21:47 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
Comments: To: Dawie Venter <dventer@ILINK.NIS.ZA>
In-Reply-To:  <E0yBKom-0006bo-00@ilink.nis.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Dawie Venter wrote:
> I think the printed copies of some of the early dome books are also in
> danger of becomming lost forever through age.  I am fortunate to have a
> copy  of DomeBook 2, The Dome Builder's Handbook and Dome Builder's
> Handbook No.2.
>
> My copy of Domebook 2 dates from 1974 and the pages are beginning to turn
> yellow and the edges crumbling badly through frequent use and age.  I
> believe none of these books are in print anymore and copies are notoriously
> difficult to obtain anywhere.

As a bookseller and an archivist, I can say that there is no comparing
book loss to magnetic media loss.  Fullers books exist in the thousands
and when kept in a cool dry place will be here for hundreds of years.  His
tapes exist in single copies (or very few copies) and even when preserved
at _optimal_ levels the media itself is flawed: the magnetic elements fall
off the tape and that's that, they're gone.

If you or anyone else is having trouble finding Fuller books, let me know:
I find books every day for people.

- Trevor Blake

--
J. Whirler Used & Rare Children's Books | Trevor Blake
http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/jw.htm | 503-236-2364
P. O. Box 2321 - Portland OR 97208-2321 | box2321@teleport.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:26:23 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
Comments: To: anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Comments: cc: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
In-Reply-To:  <199803071544.HAA05240@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, anthony kalenak wrote:

> I think it would be great to have a digital repository for out-of-print
> dome works.  Copyright would be a major problem.

That would be great, but if it doesn't happen the books will still exist
(although not under one roof).  If something isn't done to spread the
magnetic recordings around then they won't exist - period.  The priority
is clear: distribute and reformat the magnetic media while it is still
possible, distribute and reformat the printed works when time is
available.

The bottom line: I am highly suspicious any magnetic recording of Fuller
more than 20 years old can be played more than one more time to digitize
it before it is unplayable.  Imagine all recorded before 1978 as gone
forever - if you had the chance to save what was left, would you?

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:28:08 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "C. J. Monahan" <monahan@MAIL.EDEN.COM>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Trevor Blake writes:
>
>As a bookseller and an archivist, I can say that there is no comparing
>book loss to magnetic media loss.  Fullers books exist in the thousands
>and when kept in a cool dry place will be here for hundreds of years.  His
>tapes exist in single copies (or very few copies) and even when preserved
>at _optimal_ levels the media itself is flawed: the magnetic elements fall
>off the tape and that's that, they're gone.

as someone who has worked with old tapes, this isn't correct.

you can "save" old tapes through controlled baking, which re-attaches the
magnetic elements so that the tape then can be duplicated onto a digital
medium.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:16:25 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Howdy Folks --

Count on me for assistance in the magnetic media recovery projects.  Check
my website for travel plans.  If you find i'm in your area, & you have some
Fuller magetic media, let's set up a meeting.  I am very experienced with
audio recording & dubbing, having produced & released many albums of my own
music.  We could probably figure out some patch to dub into my laptop, and
then upload it into a suitable web site.  Next question is, who has that
suitable web site?

At 02:26 PM 3/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
> I am highly suspicious any magnetic recording of Fuller
>more than 20 years old can be played more than one more time to digitize
>it before it is unplayable.  Imagine all recorded before 1978 as gone
>forever - if you had the chance to save what was left, would you?
>
>   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
>

-- Michael Riversong **
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist **
Author of <Design Ecology> **
MRiversong@earthlink.net **
http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
MUSIC SAMPLE now available on the web site
QUALITY ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS - Take control of your life now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:23:53 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
Comments: To: "C. J. Monahan" <monahan@MAIL.EDEN.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <199803090328.VAA18713@natasha.eden.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, C. J. Monahan wrote:
> you can "save" old tapes through controlled baking, which re-attaches the
> magnetic elements so that the tape then can be duplicated onto a digital
> medium.

I am glad to be corrected!

Is controlled baking an exacting process or could an attentive person do
it with their home oven?
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:26:59 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond
Comments: To: Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <199803091416.GAA06172@norway.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Michael Riversong wrote:
> Count on me for assistance in the magnetic media recovery projects.  Check
> my website for travel plans.  If you find i'm in your area, & you have some
> Fuller magetic media, let's set up a meeting.  I am very experienced with
> audio recording & dubbing, having produced & released many albums of my own
> music.  We could probably figure out some patch to dub into my laptop, and
> then upload it into a suitable web site.  Next question is, who has that
> suitable web site?

GeoCities [1] offers 15 MB of space and RealMedia streaming for all of
$5.00/month.  A WWW page of nothing but Fuller audio would demand little
and deliver much.  If no one will share their space, a new space is to be
had for a small price.

[1] http://www.geocities.com/

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:56:58 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      It's a Small World After All (editorial)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

                IT'S A SMALL WORLD AFTER ALL
                an editorial by Kirby Urner
                      March 09, 1998


If you keep tugging on any thread, pretty soon the whole
sweater unravels.  Some such cliche aptly describes the bind we
encounter whenever our deeply digging investigations begin to
unsnarl the kinks -- in some little S&L in Arkansas for example.
Banks borrow from bigger banks and in a few steps you're at the
doors of BCCI, looking into the maw of conspiracy theory's
Grand Central (one of several).

In part it's the old six degrees of separation thing: we're
told that any player connects to every other on this spherical
"world stage" with at most six intermediaries between them.
Once you limit your "world" to those playing in big money
circuits, those flying their kited checks the highest and so
on, you've probably cut your "degrees of separation" to two
or three, and it starts to like like one big, dysfunctional
family -- and so it is.

The other rule of thumb is that, if you look hard enough, you'll
eventually find your worst fears confirmed in the dimly reflecting
light of this haunted castle. The DIA sees Chinese operatives
spreading the big bucks to DNC dupes, using this "opium of
politics" ($$) to dumb-down US defenses, leading Commerce to
authorize the sale of the scariest possible encrypted super-
computer systems to aliens. The ravaged neighborhoods see drug
dealers worming through government and private lending
institutions at all levels, and getting away with it, bringing
devastation home and exporting WMDs to Iraq or Iran or whomever
might need propping up against a foe.

These sleazey global circuits penetrate all insider circles and
tend to disorient the partisans.  Every VIP gets surrounded by
dark organizations and shady characters, stealing software,
exporting nose cones, introducing one another to their sick
and twisted friends in the highest places.  If you're working
in the context of a morality play, polarized into "us=good /
them=bad" camps, then you're likely to get confused, unless
you strategically snip the ties here and there, keeping your
conspiracy theories under control, your digging shallow, and
letting your opponents zero in on stuff you hope turns out to
be false, because you have some heros in that camp -- or live
in it yourself.

It's a small world after all. Disney should do a new version
of that sugar-sweet amusement park ride, replacing the bright,
happy little dolls with underworld figures and politician sleaze
balls from hell -- turning all that sugar into cocaine.  But
keep the happy little tune as is, for horrific, nightmarish
effect, ala some Stephan King novel. Such is our little "Humans
in Universe scenario" as Bucky Fuller called it.  Such is life.
Terrifying, ain't it?


---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:58:25 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: It's a Small World After All (editorial)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Repost with typo fixed for hyperlinking from archives.  Feel
free to share with your sick & twisted friends.  Heh.  Kirby.

==================

                IT'S A SMALL WORLD AFTER ALL
                an editorial by Kirby Urner
                      March 09, 1998


If you keep tugging on any thread, pretty soon the whole
sweater unravels.  Some such cliche aptly describes the bind we
encounter whenever our deeply digging investigations begin to
unsnarl the kinks -- in some little S&L in Arkansas for example.
Banks borrow from bigger banks and in a few steps you're at the
doors of BCCI, looking into the maw of conspiracy theory's
Grand Central (one of several).

In part it's the old six degrees of separation thing: we're
told that any player connects to every other on this spherical
"world stage" with at most six intermediaries between them.
Once you limit your "world" to those playing in big money
circuits, those flying their kited checks the highest and so
on, you've probably cut your "degrees of separation" to two
or three, and it starts to look like one big, dysfunctional
family -- and so it is.

The other rule of thumb is that, if you look hard enough, you'll
eventually find your worst fears confirmed in the dimly reflecting
light of this haunted castle. The DIA sees Chinese operatives
spreading the big bucks to DNC dupes, using this "opium of
politics" ($$) to dumb-down US defenses, leading Commerce to
authorize the sale of the scariest possible encrypted super-
computer systems to aliens. The ravaged neighborhoods see drug
dealers worming through government and private lending
institutions at all levels, and getting away with it, bringing
devastation home and exporting WMDs to Iraq or Iran or whomever
might need propping up against a foe.

These sleazey global circuits penetrate all insider circles and
tend to disorient the partisans.  Every VIP gets surrounded by
dark organizations and shady characters, stealing software,
exporting nose cones, introducing one another to their sick
and twisted friends in the highest places.  If you're working
in the context of a morality play, polarized into "us=good /
them=bad" camps, then you're likely to get confused, unless
you strategically snip the ties here and there, keeping your
conspiracy theories under control, your digging shallow, and
letting your opponents zero in on stuff you hope turns out to
be false, because you have some heros in that camp -- or live
in it yourself.

It's a small world after all. Disney should do a new version
of that sugar-sweet amusement park ride, replacing the bright,
happy little dolls with underworld figures and politician sleaze
balls from hell -- turning all that sugar into cocaine.  But
keep the happy little tune as is, for horrific, nightmarish
effect, ala some Stephan King novel. Such is our little "Humans
in Universe scenario" as Bucky Fuller called it.  Such is life.
Terrifying, ain't it?


---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:59:53 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Subject:      Wired
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

There is a short oolumn in this months Wired Magazine which mentions
Synergetics (the book), the Synergetics_L list and Kirby.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:11:34 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: It's a Small World After All (editorial)
Comments: To: Kirby Urner <pdx4d@teleport.com>
In-Reply-To:  <35048192.7208315@news.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Kirby Urner wrote:

> If you keep tugging on any thread, pretty soon the whole
> sweater unravels.  Some such cliche aptly describes the bind we
> encounter whenever our deeply digging investigations begin to
> unsnarl the kinks -- in some little S&L in Arkansas for example.
> Banks borrow from bigger banks and in a few steps you're at the
> doors of BCCI, looking into the maw of conspiracy theory's
> Grand Central (one of several).

[Paraphrase] 'It's just like Marshall McLuhan said, electronic media is
bringing us together into a single global body... but he didn't say
anything about a head.' - Mark Pauline, SRL [1].

Conspiracies assume competency.  Competency is demonstrable.  Spaceship
Earth is not running efficiently enough to demonstrate competency and thus
meta-conspiracy.  When the starving and homeless are either all fed or all
dead (the most significant demonstrations of world-around competency) we
may attribute this to conspiracy or counterspiracy [2].  Anything less is
local politics, which may involve conspiracy but is never relevant on the
design science scale.

Credit for any world-around effect must never be granted to 'them' if the
potential of the individual and of design science is to be met.  It is
assumed that the means to operate Spaceship Earth as a successful vehicle
to [points unknown] are present; billions of years of human evolution
demand they not be squandered or ignored.

Localized conspiracies tend towards a central theme - greed - but no
central bureau.  If greed is based on privation, and if privation is
or could be ending (as suggested by Buckminster Fuller), the necessity or
desirability to conspire against humanity is or could be ending.  Design
science is part of the counterspiracy.

[1] http://www.srl.org/
[2] http://www.subgenius.com/

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:23:48 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Music, Tesla, and Fuller
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Howdy Folks --

Since there are a least a few subscribers to the Fuller list in the NYC
area, this announcement should be relevant.  I'm doing a special performance
in New York.  Here are the details:

Michael Riversong Showcase Performance
Sunday March 22, 7:30 pm
Celebrity Centre New York
65 E. 82nd St., just west of Park Ave.
212-288-1526

I will be playing Celtic harp, dulcimer, and flutes.  Customarily my
concerts include stories among the instrumental pieces.  Since this group
will be composed of highly intelligent people, i will discuss the works of
Tesla and Buckminster Fuller and how they interrelate.   A lot of this is
based on personal experience using these principles in environmental
consulting assignments over many years.  Looking forward to meeting some of you!

Also, for those who can travel to Woodstock, i will be delivering a seminar
there entitled "Design Ecology -- Feng Shui for Modern Times".  This will be
geared for laypeople, and will cover how to create a more healthy living
environment using simple techniques drawn from 8,000 years of design science
in China, Europe, and America.  This will be Tuesday evening, March 17,
sponsored by Stone Flower Mountain Health Associates (914)679-4872.

-- Michael Riversong **
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist **
Author of <Design Ecology> **
MRiversong@earthlink.net **
http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
MUSIC SAMPLE now available on the web site
QUALITY ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS - Take control of your life now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:25:23 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond (fwd)
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Return-Path: monahan@mail.eden.com
Received: from natasha.eden.com (natasha.eden.com [199.171.21.14]) by smtp3.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01196 for <box2321@teleport.com>; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:27:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [206.81.247.68] (net-6-068.austin.eden.com [206.81.247.68])
        by natasha.eden.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA18380
        for <box2321@teleport.com>; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:26:38 -0600 (CST)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:26:38 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199803100126.TAA18380@natasha.eden.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@teleport.com>
From: monahan@mail.eden.com (C. J.  Monahan)
Subject: Re: RBF Audio for 2000 & Beyond

talk about appropriate technology---- a friend who works at Austin City
Limits (PBS) rigged up a thermometer and 2 blow dryers in a box.  The air
circulation is very important. Do NOT use ovens. Pasternik and Illich would
love this!

don't know the time required -- it's around 4 hours --  -- if you have a
''hot'' project, feel free to e-mail me and I will hook you and him up.


>On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, C. J. Monahan wrote:
>> you can "save" old tapes through controlled baking, which re-attaches the
>> magnetic elements so that the tape then can be duplicated onto a digital
>> medium.
>
>I am glad to be corrected!
>
>Is controlled baking an exacting process or could an attentive person do
>it with their home oven?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:03:11 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Music, Tesla, and Fuller
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Michael,
You wrote:
<<I will be playing Celtic harp, dulcimer, and flutes.>>

Can you describe the Celtic harp.  I am looking into past cultures and
their ability to use sound waves to cause reactions into sub quark
molecular structure through harmonics. =

Bob =
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:02:41 +0100
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         tom aagdii <aagdii@DDS.NL>
Subject:      world game
In-Reply-To:  <19980306141239.1521.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

world game should be made to work on the net. if it is made easy and
enjoyble many people might start to play it. everyone is using hotmail
because it is easy to use.it should be made so attractive that a politician
would play it.

Algore made a comment on world enegry connection.
do you trust the man.


--
it could happen that south america gets rich sooner than china,
look at mexico.
---

----------
where did calvanists come from!

----------

suppose the earth is finished, then what!


  tagdi
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:19:24 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Business Plan
Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

                     A BUSINESS PLAN
                      by Kirby Urner
                      March 10, 1998


The niche market we need to develop, in my estimation, centers
around the live presentation of information in the lecture bowl
context, with screen and props from vendors showcasing what
"you too could be sharing" with students needing access to the
same material.

In other words, a person like me would be a randomly walking
synergetics turtle with a bag of goodies, as well as a rap, a
willingness to do live, impromptu Q&A, and visit with
educators/students both formally and informally, aiming to get
more turtles going to snowball effect, assuming a growing
interest in getting a design science curriculum programmed at
various levels, both on TV, in the movies, in corporate
settings, and in more traditional classroom situations.

You've got the Jay Baldwin style experience which involves
retreating to a locale with workbench engineering and other
relevant toolery, actually building and prototyping, returning
to your cubicle with better, more relevant experience than most
within miles.  Then you've got your more paper and screen type
time/energy investor, who wants to track and collate these
prototyping scenarios with an eye towards commercialization.
Then you've got your NGO and GO activists who want to press
high tech into appropriate service on the front lines, boldly
providing emergency services where needed, community-based
services where requested and so on.  All of these converge in
the background in a kind of 'space academy' montage wherein we
'set the stage' in the mind of prospectives who have yet to
commit, because needing a more big picture perspective
regarding options.

At the 'space academy' level, we supply a lot of the spatial
data management concepts, with Planet Earth as a focus, mixing
real time global data ala World Game aesthetics, using GIS/GPS
fly-through graphics, with the more skeletized 'eternal
principles' framework, which is about systems in general (any
planet, any sphere, any network).  Synergetics as pure geometry
comes in when we purposely drain away all energy content
whatsoever, leaving Eulerian style topological constructions:
modules, static and rotating polyvertexial networks, subdividing
over time. This material feeds into the inherited curriculum of
pre-synergetics symbolic manipulation, now converged with
computer programming, and conventional geometric explorations.
Reinvesting with energy, we get atomics, materials/properties
and the Earthian inventory (back to World Game), and brain-
storming regarding our options to intelligently deploy, within
scenarios, to strategically satisfy basic needs while creating
lifestyle scenarios (theater metaphor) twisting through
infrastructure in ways which enchance, supervise, maintain
and innovate.

Initially, our lecture bowl presenters will need to spell out
this meta-context, map this humans in Universe scenario using
innovative language embedding the management abstractions which
general systems theory provides.  We have solar fusion, an
earthian econosphere, a physical inventory, a metaphysical
inventory, programming, and a Project Renaissance model whereby
prototypes bound for real world service often need to pass
through a "hard knocks" field testing phase before any mass
vending through commercial channels is feasible.  Sometimes its
just a matter of building a skilled user-base for advanced
information management systems.  The historical role of the
military is subsumed (included) within this approach, giving
personnel on the front lines in the battle to keep humans in
Universe viable and sustainable first use of what might prove
winning-hand assets, hot off the drawing boards.

The "best toys" lure of military service will transfer to a
broader spectrum of relief and service provision, as well as
ecosystem protection, sometimes aggressively undertaken in the
face of an underinformed, greed-based initiative aimed at
terrorizing populations and/or destroying/squandering vital
assets.  A military operation might not just defend, but supply
civilians access to aerospace-level civilian paraphernalia of
sufficient lifestyle benefit to forestall future outbreaks of
violence, the participants now having a more global outlook and
fading interest in whatever narrative accounts were forcing a
vicious circle profitable in the long term only to weapons
suppliers and career killers.

We're into giving the children, helpless to change channels
when caught up in some "adult" scenario, the choice at minimum
to a complete change of scene, preferably with family in tow,
to some waystation campus location offering retraining and, if
conditions permit, eventual return to the "scene of the crime"
post implementation of some design science solution.  Military
services with a lot of assets will become very good at
"abducting" entire populations (those anxious to find refuge),
leaving landscapes devoid of non-combatants, with the remaining
killers knowing that their propaganda campaigns aimed at
continuing local hatreds into the next generation may well be
undermined by alien curricula exerting a damping effect on the
long-running feuds characteristic of dark ages feudalistic
scenarios.

On the local scene, I'm looking for logo-identified suppliers
to showcase their curriculum goods in lecture presentations to
educators/students which will both spell out design science at
the big picture level, and give people tips for how to order
the props and bone up on raps which will enable the swift
duplication and amplification of our curriculum around the
world.

Background reading:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bworks.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:23:00 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: It's a Small World After All (editorial)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Credit for any world-around effect must never be granted to 'them' if the
>potential of the individual and of design science is to be met.  It is
>assumed that the means to operate Spaceship Earth as a successful vehicle
>to [points unknown] are present; billions of years of human evolution
>demand they not be squandered or ignored.
>

I tend to agree with this analysis.  Our ability to conspire on behalf
of omni-humanity, more in the Fuller tradition, is likely to vastly
outstrip the more localized greed-pocket conspiracies in terms of
effectiveness, competence and sophistication owing to our working
'with the grain' of what where nature is going with this scenario.
I'd say we're already past this point i.e. the sleaze-balls have
been effectively circumvented at many critical junctures, kinda like
when we "reroute navigation controls to engineering" in a Star Trek
episode (and then change all the passwords).

Kirby

---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:49:46 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      A Business Plan
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

                     A BUSINESS PLAN
                      by Kirby Urner
                      March 10, 1998


The niche market we need to develop, in my estimation, centers
around the live presentation of information in the lecture bowl
context, with screen and props from vendors showcasing what
"you too could be sharing" with students needing access to the
same material.

In other words, a person like me would be a randomly walking
synergetics turtle with a bag of goodies, as well as a rap, a
willingness to do live, impromptu Q&A, and visit with
educators/students both formally and informally, aiming to get
more turtles going to snowball effect, assuming a growing
interest in getting a design science curriculum programmed at
various levels, both on TV, in the movies, in corporate
settings, and in more traditional classroom situations.

You've got the Jay Baldwin style experience which involves
retreating to a locale with workbench engineering and other
relevant toolery, actually building and prototyping, returning
to your cubicle with better, more relevant experience than most
within miles.  Then you've got your more paper and screen type
time/energy investor, who wants to track and collate these
prototyping scenarios with an eye towards commercialization.
Then you've got your NGO and GO activists who want to press
high tech into appropriate service on the front lines, boldly
providing emergency services where needed, community-based
services where requested and so on.  All of these converge in
the background in a kind of 'space academy' montage wherein we
'set the stage' in the mind of prospectives who have yet to
commit, because needing a more big picture perspective
regarding options.

At the 'space academy' level, we supply a lot of the spatial
data management concepts, with Planet Earth as a focus, mixing
real time global data ala World Game aesthetics, using GIS/GPS
fly-through graphics, with the more skeletized 'eternal
principles' framework, which is about systems in general (any
planet, any sphere, any network).  Synergetics as pure geometry
comes in when we purposely drain away all energy content
whatsoever, leaving Eulerian style topological constructions:
modules, static and rotating polyvertexial networks, subdividing
over time. This material feeds into the inherited curriculum of
pre-synergetics symbolic manipulation, now converged with
computer programming, and conventional geometric explorations.
Reinvesting with energy, we get atomics, materials/properties
and the Earthian inventory (back to World Game), and brain-
storming regarding our options to intelligently deploy, within
scenarios, to strategically satisfy basic needs while creating
lifestyle scenarios (theater metaphor) twisting through
infrastructure in ways which enhance, supervise, maintain
and innovate.

Initially, our lecture bowl presenters will need to spell out
this meta-context, map this humans in Universe scenario using
innovative language embedding the management abstractions which
general systems theory provides.  We have solar fusion, an
earthian econosphere, a physical inventory, a metaphysical
inventory, programming, and a Project Renaissance model whereby
prototypes bound for real world service often need to pass
through a "hard knocks" field testing phase before any mass
vending through commercial channels is feasible.  Sometimes its
just a matter of building a skilled user-base for advanced
information management systems.  The historical role of the
military is subsumed (included) within this approach, giving
personnel on the front lines in the battle to keep humans in
Universe viable and sustainable first use of what might prove
winning-hand assets, hot off the drawing boards.

The "best toys" lure of military service will transfer to a
broader spectrum of relief and service provision, as well as
ecosystem protection, sometimes aggressively undertaken in the
face of an underinformed, greed-based initiative aimed at
terrorizing populations and/or destroying/squandering vital
assets.  A military operation might not just defend, but supply
civilians access to aerospace-level civilian paraphernalia of
sufficient lifestyle benefit to forestall future outbreaks of
violence, the participants now having a more global outlook and
fading interest in whatever narrative accounts were forcing a
vicious circle profitable in the long term only to weapons
suppliers and career killers.

We're into giving the children, helpless to change channels
when caught up in some "adult" scenario, the choice at minimum
to a complete change of scene, preferably with family in tow,
to some waystation campus location offering retraining and, if
conditions permit, eventual return to the "scene of the crime"
post implementation of some design science solution.  Military
services with a lot of assets will become very good at
"abducting" entire populations (those anxious to find refuge),
leaving landscapes devoid of non-combatants, with the remaining
killers knowing that their propaganda campaigns aimed at
continuing local hatreds into the next generation may well be
undermined by alien curricula exerting a damping effect on the
long-running feuds characteristic of dark ages feudalistic
scenarios.

On the local scene, I'm looking for logo-identified suppliers
to showcase their curriculum goods in lecture presentations to
educators/students which will both spell out design science at
the big picture level, and give people tips for how to order
the props and bone up on raps which will enable the swift
duplication and amplification of our curriculum around the
world.

Background reading:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bworks.html



---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:35:36 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Chuck Knight <cknight@FLASH.NET>
Subject:      Fly's Eye Domes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Has anyone done any work with molded panel fly's eye domes?  I got
thinking about them recently, and would love to build a model.  Any
hints?  Any tips?  Any mathematical models?  :-)

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:07:33 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         John Belt <belt@OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fly's Eye Domes
In-Reply-To:  <350587F8.3F86A14@flash.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        Hello Chuck,,,  For some information on the Fly's Eye Domes
take a look at Jay Baldwin's book BUCKYWORKS, now available in paperback.
The John Warren 50 foot dome is pictured with a little information about
the structural concept.  Also there is a photo of John Kuhtik and some
panels of his 33 foot Fly's Eye.  I went to Bayonne, New Jersey last
summer to take a look at his standing dome which is still in the
developmental stages and progresses when funds are available.  If you are
really interested in these domes you should contact John Kuhtik.  He was
a list member for a while but not sure if he is still subscribed at this
time.  A week ago i sent him an email to inquire how the project was going
but have heard nothing at this time.  John's panels were made of fiberglas
using sprayed gel coat and sprayed fiberglas like the typical boat
technology and the panels were about 3/16+ inch thick.  For the 33 foot
dome a little more thickness would be desired.  It was John's intent to
push the materials at the low end to test the idea first.  His project has
been built and funded by his own effort over the past four years to the
standing stage last summer.  Will forward your post to him tonight to be
sure he gets the message as i have not seen a post by him for some time
now.
good luck, jb
.............................................................................
        Has anyone heard of structural foam panels being used in any domes
of any type.  It seems that the foam would be a good material for the
panels.   A former student who runs a big industrial modelmaking company
near NYC made a model of a garden tractor for a company a few years back
and considering the strength required in the frame--a dome panel should
be easy to produce with structural webs and utility & vent tubes, etc.
The Fly's Eye could be made in an inner and outer panels and attached with
panel ties, then foamed to gain added r value and additional structural
strength.  Any thoughts or information?  Have done a little looking for
the material but did not locate it and did not follow up with my friend
again.  He was going to try to locate some information but their company
was very busy at the time and have not heard from him.  Will try to see
if he has located anything in a few days.  I do have one large eight inch
deep panel by 20 x 28 and 1/4 inch thick, it looks like the side of a
commercial studio tv camera.  I got it at an industrial trade show several
years back and the information i had with it is now missing from the
files.
        Will post anything i find regarding the material.  Good but not
cheap as i recall, but the cost may be down now.
        stay tuned, jb

---------------------------------------------------------------------
John Belt, Design Faculty               Phone:  (Office)315-341-2868
Department of Technology                        (Studio)315-341-2867
SUNY Oswego                             Fax:    315-341-3363
Oswego, NY 13126
---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Chuck Knight wrote:

> Has anyone done any work with molded panel fly's eye domes?  I got
> thinking about them recently, and would love to build a model.  Any
> hints?  Any tips?  Any mathematical models?  :-)
>
>      -- Chuck Knight
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:17:49 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Chuck Knight <cknight@FLASH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Fly's Eye Domes
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>         Hello Chuck,,,  For some information on the Fly's Eye Domes
> take a look at Jay Baldwin's book BUCKYWORKS, now available in paperback.

Oh, I have.  My college library has a copy, and I've also seen images
of them on the net.  Very nicely designed, and it fits right in with
my own personal research about minimal surfaces and "hyperbolic
paraboloid"
tension structures.

> the structural concept.  Also there is a photo of John Kuhtik and some

I'm familiar with his work...saw it on the PBS web site.

> really interested in these domes you should contact John Kuhtik.  He was

If he doesn't mind, I would love to talk to him...preferably via email.
Feel free to give him my email address.

> but have heard nothing at this time.  John's panels were made of fiberglas
> using sprayed gel coat and sprayed fiberglas like the typical boat
> technology and the panels were about 3/16+ inch thick.  For the 33 foot

That sounds rather nice.  I was thinking about using foam/fiber or
foam/ferrocement as my material of choice...or, perhaps heat formed
coroplast, a plastic product that somewhat resembles corrugated
cardboard.

I've got to make a mold first, though.

> His project has
> been built and funded by his own effort over the past four years to the
> standing stage last summer.  Will forward your post to him tonight to be
> sure he gets the message as i have not seen a post by him for some time
> now.

I'm impressed that he got that far, purely on his own.  I've never
worked with fiberglass before...but I'm willing to learn.

>         Has anyone heard of structural foam panels being used in any domes
> of any type.  It seems that the foam would be a good material for the

There's a company in Florida, that used to make foam triangular panels,
covered with ferrocement.  They would be assembled into a dome, and
concrete applied at the joints...they actually looked somewhat like
"raised panel" doors, and the cement formed a 2" think reinforced strut
that strengthened the dome even further.

> and considering the strength required in the frame--a dome panel should
> be easy to produce with structural webs and utility & vent tubes, etc.

It could be easily stamped, if my own ideas are correct.  In fact,
that's how I'll probably make my own prototype.  That, or paper mache
waterproofed with resin.  (hey, you can build airplanes out of it!)

Well, my first step is going to have to be making a mold, perhaps
out of clay.  I think paper mache might be the easiest material
to make a preliminary model out of...it's the easiest one to work
with, and the price is definitely right.

     -- Chuck Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:14:45 -0800
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From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Fly's Eye Domes
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Here's a reference from my database.  I'm pretty sure he's still there.

FNAME[   CHARLES ] LNAME[   GRONBERG
COMPANY[ THE FLY'S EYE
ADDRESS[ 1126 PARKWOOD RD
CITY[    RAPID CITY ] STATE[SD] ZIP[57701
HPHONE[             WPHONE[  605-343-2431] FAX[
CLASS[   BB] SOURCE[  NEW RENN] LISTTO[  M
INDATE[  9-4-94] UPDATE[  940928

NOTES[   GEODESIC DOMES
         SYNERGETICS
         contacted 11-17-94, has applied for govt. grant to do designs on
         Internet

At 06:35 PM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Has anyone done any work with molded panel fly's eye domes?  I got
>thinking about them recently, and would love to build a model.  Any
>hints?  Any tips?  Any mathematical models?  :-)
>
>     -- Chuck Knight
>
>
-- Michael Riversong **
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist **
Author of <Design Ecology> **
MRiversong@earthlink.net **
http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
MUSIC SAMPLE now available on the web site
QUALITY ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS - Take control of your life now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:14:36 -0800
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From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: A Business Plan
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Hey please count me in on this.  I'm already doing it, mainly by presenting
to home school groups and using music to demonstrate certain points.  I'd
love to be part of something in a larger context, and do more work
presenting to corporations & think tanks.

At 08:49 PM 3/10/98 GMT, you wrote:
>                     A BUSINESS PLAN
>                      by Kirby Urner
>                      March 10, 1998
>
>
>The niche market we need to develop, in my estimation, centers
>around the live presentation of information in the lecture bowl
>context, with screen and props from vendors showcasing what
>"you too could be sharing" with students needing access to the
>same material.
>
-- Michael Riversong **
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist **
Author of <Design Ecology> **
MRiversong@earthlink.net **
http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
MUSIC SAMPLE now available on the web site
QUALITY ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS - Take control of your life now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:14:40 -0800
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From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Music, Tesla, and Fuller
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Wow can we meet sometime?  This sounds like fascinating research.  Best way
i can h*elp you is to demonstrate the Pythagorean mode system live on the
harp.  What part of the world are you in?  If we can't meet i have extensive
material released on tape which would give you a good idea of this, but we'd
better discuss that through private correspondence.

Celtic harps are pretty simple.  Mine has only 26 strings, but puts out a
lot of sound.  It is the traditional type -- the harps you see in orchestras
are a mechanical mutation which originated in the 1700's.  They are not as
resonant as the Celtic harps, because of all the hardware inside them.

In the ancient Vedas of India, it was always emphasized that sound could
easily affect the basic structure of matter.  When you say "sub quark
molecular structure" i prefer the term "Microvita", which is a Vedic term
meaning a living basis underlying all matter.  Of course from Synergetics we
get the understanding that this structure is formed in patterns which are
described through the geometric equations exhibited by Fuller.

At 01:03 PM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Can you describe the Celtic harp.  I am looking into past cultures and
>their ability to use sound waves to cause reactions into sub quark
>molecular structure through harmonics.
>Bob
>
>
-- Michael Riversong **
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist **
Author of <Design Ecology> **
MRiversong@earthlink.net **
http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
MUSIC SAMPLE now available on the web site
QUALITY ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS - Take control of your life now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:06:49 GMT
Reply-To:     mithril@iafrica.com
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From:         Grantland <mithril@IAFRICA.COM>
Organization: opinions international etc.
Subject:      Keeping up with the Cyberzoids

  CNN program about intelligent machines ..getting smarter all the
time.. worries about humanity being exterminated as a "pest" by
supergenius machines (networks?) ..just 20 to 30 years from now..
wonder if humanoids will take steps to keep up? .. Luddites?
eugenics?? naughty word
  naughty, naughty word!

Grantland
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Date:         Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:13:11 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: A Business Plan
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Good to hear Michael.

I think you'll know if my business plan (one of several similar) starts
to be implemented to any significant degree.  Right now, it seems the
future is on hold while pundit-lawyers hog the media with their silly
DC-centric soap opera.  USA TV is a wading pool for tiny tots, fixated
on dramas of little import or moment (an exaggeration: El Nino coverage
has been excellent).

But that's what politics has always been good for:  keep the public's
attention focussed on the clowns while the profit-hungry make their
killings in the background, mostly unobserved.  Yum.

Kirby


================

>From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
>Subject:      Re: A Business Plan
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hey please count me in on this.  I'm already doing it, mainly by presenting
>to home school groups and using music to demonstrate certain points.  I'd
>love to be part of something in a larger context, and do more work
>presenting to corporations & think tanks.
>
>At 08:49 PM 3/10/98 GMT, you wrote:
>
>                     A BUSINESS PLAN
>                      by Kirby Urner
>                      March 10, 1998
---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:49:13 -0800
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fly's Eye Domes
Comments: To: Chuck Knight <cknight@FLASH.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <350587F8.3F86A14@flash.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Chuck Knight wrote:
> Has anyone done any work with molded panel fly's eye domes?  I got
> thinking about them recently, and would love to build a model.  Any
> hints?  Any tips?  Any mathematical models?  :-)

Plastic Easter eggs.  Styrofoam egg cartons.

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:13:19 -0600
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From:         siegmund@THEGRID.NET
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Subject:      newcomer

As a newcomer, I would appreciate info on what is going on in this group.  I
know that it is Bucky related/focused, but is there a theme
/project/direction which focuses specifically on outcomes of actions?
Thanks, Mark

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
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Date:         Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:22:11 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: world game
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tom aagdii <aagdii@DDS.NL> wrote:

>world game should be made to work on the net. if it is made easy and
>enjoyble many people might start to play it. everyone is using hotmail
>because it is easy to use.it should be made so attractive that a politician
>would play it.

X-From_: wgi@worldgame.org  Tue Mar 10 21:58:08 1998
X-Sender: wgi@pop.libertynet.org (Unverified)
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:28:34 -0500
X-To: wgi@worldgame.org
From: World Game Institute <wgi@worldgame.org>
Subject: See the world as you have never seen it before!

Sometimes the easiest way to find something is to change your perspective.
See your home the way you have never seen it before, from an altitude you
have never experienced.  New images of the Earth from space are now
available.  See them on World Game Institute's website
(http://www.worldgame.org) under "Maps and Resources."

These full-color satellite images of the whole Earth are in six separate
large-format  posters.  They are stunning, beautiful and detailed portraits
of each continent.  The large size and scale help reveal actual details
never seen before.  (Bill Gates's house?)

North America shows the closeness of Asia over the polar ice cap, arid
vegetation patterns of the Midwest, salt flats, desert regions, dense
jungles of northern South America to forest cover of eastern US and Canada
where tree line can be seen to migrate north the further west it goes.
South America shows the radiant greens of rain forests, clear cutting,
deserts, and the two tributaries of the Amazon river for hundreds of miles
west of their juncture at Manaus, which is already a thousand miles inland.
Europe shows proximity to Asia and Africa, deserts of Spain, vineyards of
France, Alps, northern reaches of Sahara, boot of Italy, islands of Greece,
fjords of Norway.  Africa shows Sahara stretching across northern part of
continent, rich vegetation to south and west, grasslands reaching to the
oceans, Nile Delta, Nile river to its source at Lake Victoria and
surrounding ocean floor and its lack of continental shelf.  Asia shows arid
conditions of India and deserts of China, forests of Siberia, jungles of
Southeast Asia, Himalayas, and ocean floor that displays active geology of
region.  Australia shows island continent with rich vegetation surrounding
vast expanses of arid and semiarid interior with lush South Pacific islands
and New Zealand.  See for yourself!

While at World Game Institute's site, check out our Worldometers, and the
new NetWorld Game!

NetWorld Game: Steering Wheel for Spaceship Earth

________________________________________________
WORLD GAME INSTITUTE
3215 Race Street, Philadelphia,PA  19104  USA
Phone: 1-800-220-GAME or 215-387-0220. Fax  215-387-3009
Web: http://www.worldgame.org     Email: wgi@worldgame.org

---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Mar 1998 06:02:54 -0500
Reply-To:     monkey@one.net
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From:         David Anderson <monkey@ONE.NET>
Organization: Flying Monkey Software
Subject:      Re: Keeping up with the Cyberzoids
Comments: To: mithril@iafrica.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Grantland wrote:

>   CNN program about intelligent machines ..getting smarter all the
> time.. worries about humanity being exterminated as a "pest" by
> supergenius machines (networks?) ..just 20 to 30 years from now..
> wonder if humanoids will take steps to keep up? .. Luddites?
> eugenics?? naughty word! naughty, naughty word!

Where are Asimov's laws of robotics when you really need them?!

--

- Dave Anderson  monkey@one.net  http://w3.one.net/~monkey
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:34:08 -0500
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From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Music, Tesla, and Fuller
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Michael,
You wrote:
<<Wow can we meet sometime?  This sounds like fascinating research.  Best=

way
i can h*elp you is to demonstrate the Pythagorean mode system live on the=

harp.  What part of the world are you in?  If we can't meet i have
extensive
material released on tape which would give you a good idea of this, but
we'd
better discuss that through private correspondence.>>

    I live in K.C. MO.  =

    For the most part I have been studying structures.  This leap into
harminics is focused on tapping into a source of clean cheap energy to
provide energy for these structures.
      Any understanding that Pythagoras might have had, apparently was ke=
pt
secret by the secret societies which arose around his teachings.  I belie=
ve
that although the Celtic harp and the Davidic harp might not give direct
answers to questions I have, my guess is that they are practical
instruments, which if studied properly, can unlock underlying mysteries. =
 I
am trying to tap into the dynamic energy of the fine structured aether. =

Harmonics is the only practical method that I can imagine being available=
=2E =

See my WEB page for sub quark structuring models based on the recursive
symetry of Nature's macromolecular structures. =

Bob
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:26:14 PST
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      ideas from everywhere
Content-Type: text/plain

>the brain.
>the emotional language is localized
>in the temporal lobe, and the emotional expressions
>in the nondominant frontal lobe.

 pleasure inducing drugs affect the septal region, less often in deep
>cerebellum and amygdala.
>
>i thought  that the cerebellum coordinate all  the sense impressions.
>-----

>anxiety  is a reflex,  Descartes  coordinate
>is reflected in  the design of cities,
 city logistics is one cause of psycosis!

>man is dissected hundred folds by specialist.
>economics is one cause of physical and psychological constipation!
>
there are 6 million alcoholics in the U.S in 1965
>4 out of 10 americans say their job is stressful.
>
logarithm is the science of calculation, derived from
the arab mathematician Al-kwoarizme.
>
>man needs on average 200  cc of  Oxygen

>the arabic horse is one of the oldest  horse
>breeds.
>
>Florida  swamps don't have drainage.
>ecosystems nest in each other.
>most of  the earth biomes  is located around
>the equator.

tagdi



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Date:         Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:44:51 PST
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      navigation
Content-Type: text/plain

new findings was mentioned in the BBC news two night ago-
polynesians ocean navigation go back as far as 80,000 years.
it was also mentioned that the findings was published in
Nature science magazine.

tagdi


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Date:         Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:47:13 PST
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      eternal
Content-Type: text/plain

eternal means timeless, i think it menas the same in Fuller writing!
was fuller logical!

 tagdi

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Date:         Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:32:55 -0600
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From:         Curt Flowers <cjflower@UIUC.EDU>
Organization: University of Illinois
Subject:      Re: Keeping up with the Cyberzoids
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> Grantland wrote:
>
> >   CNN program about intelligent machines ..getting smarter all the
> > time.. worries about humanity being exterminated as a "pest" by
> > supergenius machines (networks?) ..just 20 to 30 years from now..
> > wonder if humanoids will take steps to keep up? .. Luddites?
> > eugenics?? naughty word! naughty, naughty word!
>
> David Anderson wrote:
> Where are Asimov's laws of robotics when you really need them?!
>
> --
>
> - Dave Anderson  monkey@one.net  http://w3.one.net/~monkey

Curt Flowers wrote:
Here they are:
ttp://www.clark.net/pub/edseiler/WWW/asimov_FAQ.html#series11
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:52:29 -0800
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From:         "Joe S. Moore" <joemoore@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Plydomes
Comments: To: "Michael A. Smith" <msuhr@mail.northlandlink.com>
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19980216221720.006d4c78@mail.northlandlink.com>
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Mike & Dick,

I don't have any info about Baba Greene and her thesis on plydomes.

I'm forwarding a copy of this reply to the Geodesic group--maybe someone
there has the info you're looking for.

Sorry for taking so long to respond.  Been way too busy lately!

Joe

****************************************
* Joe S. Moore
* Independent Buckminster Fuller Scholar
* joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
* Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
* http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
****************************************

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael A. Smith [mailto:msuhr@mail.northlandlink.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 1998 07:17 PM
> To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com
> Subject: Plydomes
>
>
> Hello Joe
>
>      Mike Smith here sending for info for Dick Fischbeck.  He writes, A
> year or so ago Baba Greene wrote that she had a thesis on plydomes. I
would
> like to find her so I can get a copy. Can you help me?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Dick Fischbeck
> Camden, Maine
> ************************
> *Michael A. Smith N1UHR*
> *From the High lands of*
> *Freedom Maine         *
> ************************
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:03:35 -0800
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Bucky's Ancient Mariners
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Linkname: BBC News | Asia-Pacific | First sailors date back 800,000 years
URL:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_64000/64943.stm
Date: Friday 13 March 1998 PST

BBC News Online: World: Asia-Pacific

First sailors date back 800,000 years

   Thursday, March 12, 1998 Published at 18:26 GMT

   image: [ Sailors have navigated these seas from the dawn of history ]
   First sailors date back 800,000 years
   Scientists have found fossils and stone artefacts in Indonesia which
   they think could have belonged to the earliest sea-faring humans.

   The findings, published in the scientific journal, Nature, push back
   the dates for human water-crossings by as much as 800,000 years.

   The stone tools were discovered on the island of Flores in east
   Indonesia by archaeologists from the University of New England.

   They expected them to belong to our modern ancestors - early homo
   sapiens.

   Only intelligent humans could possibly have crossed the 25 kms of deep
   water that separated the east coast of Bali and the island.

   [ image: width=150]

   But using sophisticated dating techniques, the scientists found that
   the tools were at least 800,000 years old and must have belonged to
   our much earlier ancestors, homo erectus.

   The BBC science correspondent said although homo erectus was not
   normally credited with much in the way of intelligence or technical
   skills, the archaeologists think that these early humans must have
   been resourceful enough to build sea-worthy craft, probably from
   bamboo, and use them to make repeated crossings to and from the
   island.

   Until this discovery it was thought that the first human seafarers
   were homo sapiens - and the earliest sea crossings were thought to be
   the colonisation of Australia from Indonesia only about 40,000 years
   ago.

   The archaeologists think that scientists have severely underestimated
   the capabilities, intelligence, and language of homo erectus, and that
   it is now time to re-assess the facts, and possibly re-write the
   textbooks.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Mar 1998 14:46:48 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         sms1@GTE.NET
Subject:      I have got to hear more about this.
Comments: To: GEODESIC@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Do I sign on, or what? Please advise
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Mar 1998 01:43:31 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ross Keatinge <me@READMYSIG.NZ>
Subject:      Light rail transport system
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all

I hesitate to post this since it is somewhat off-topic but in a wider
sense I think it is quite relevant to Bucky's ideas in that it
illustrates a good example of 'doing more with less' and the
greediness of 'Lawcap'.

The web site at http://www.voyager.co.nz/~flier describes an
innovative proposal for a light rail system in my city of Auckland,
New Zealand.  The ideas are applicable to other cities.

The political stuff probably won't interest or make much sense to
anyone outside the region.  However, suffice to say that the scheme
has been blocked for many years by politicians who have their own
hidden agendas and interests and are intent on pushing grandiose
schemes which cost many times in money and resources what we really
need for an efficient urban transport system.

I know Brian, the author, well.  He is very much a Bucky type thinker.
I loaned him 'Critical Path' but I don't think he found time to read
any of it. Nobody has really been able to find technical fault with
his proposed scheme.

Regards
Ross

rossk at akamail dot com

PS: I'm posting this via the list server but I really don't want to
put my new  and (so far) spam free email address out on usenet.  That
is something that is easily forgotten when a mailing list is gated to
a newsgroup. I hope the server accepts my modified address.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:00:08 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list.  It has
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Pat
 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
                           -----------------------
                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:25:23 PST
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Bussines plan
Content-Type: text/plain

hi k,

how to make simple steps to start your idea. or are you just
giving the big picture for future possibility.

as you know the world of business is quite complex and tedious.
i would think governments are better at implementing big projects.
could it be that you have clear mind and great vision, i
would like to know.

there are i think about 500-1000 earthquake trimmer a day, so
the actual disaster should not be a surprise, we just
had one in afghanistan.

an after thought from my last email about ideas- fragmented
though, and i am helpless when it comes to putting ideas
together- is that humans are one track mind they can't put
the picture of earth, moon sun together, fuller called
this coordinating unsemoltanious events semoltaniously.

i propose 60 degree crossing of subjects. take the latest
Algore idea-the news say that he get it when he wake up; settlet
 of the whole earth was his idea.

why can't they make connections, the disconnection in the news
is part of misinformation in the world if you just take the
BBC as an example(Britain's 600 hour of world programming a week)

in one of my latest messages, i mention the income of Balkan
states and that was a sort of prophesy of what is going
happen in Albania. it is not the land which is the problem, rather
it is the metabolic circulation
malfunctioning- Yugoslavian refugee are tortured all over europe.
see what i mean they don't add the nonlinearity of ideas.
God help the CIA attempt for world forecasting- a new funtion it
seems.

tagdi

i made few mistakes, i hope it is readable. can you give me feedback
on the readablity.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:34:04 EST
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         REGMONROE <REGMONROE@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Something To Think About
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_889972443_boundary"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_889972443_boundary
Content-ID: <0_889972443@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

      Hello everyone, I've been a lurker for a while now and I think it's time
for something completely different.
      My name is Reg Monroe and I've been hooked on geodesic domes since the
early 70's. I started trying some new designs for clustered geodesics in the
late 70's and my research has progressed about as far as I can go without some
help. I'm not going to say much more now, rather wait for responses to the
attached JPEG.
      I know Joe Moore has stated that he doesn't like opening openly posted
graphics files and I can certainly understand his, and any other person's,
reasons for not wanting to do so. But, I assure you that I created this file
(in Lightwave 3D) from my own calculations and my Norton Anti-V says it is
clean. I think you will find it worth your while. And there's a lot more where
it came from.
     Thanks for your time,
                  Reg

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--part0_889972443_boundary--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:07:54 -0500
Reply-To:     /dev/null@wastebasket.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Jonathan B. Thompson" <coolbear@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Something To Think About
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hmmmm....  A geodesic high rise buildingwith a small base.  Very
interesting.  Have you done calculations with strengths of materials to
figure out how high you could do this with a given structural member
dimension and material?

----------
> From: REGMONROE <REGMONROE@AOL.COM>
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Something To Think About
> Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 9:34 AM
>
>       Hello everyone, I've been a lurker for a while now and I think it's
time
> for something completely different.
>       My name is Reg Monroe and I've been hooked on geodesic domes since
the
> early 70's. I started trying some new designs for clustered geodesics in
the
> late 70's and my research has progressed about as far as I can go without
some
> help. I'm not going to say much more now, rather wait for responses to
the
> attached JPEG.
>       I know Joe Moore has stated that he doesn't like opening openly
posted
> graphics files and I can certainly understand his, and any other
person's,
> reasons for not wanting to do so. But, I assure you that I created this
file
> (in Lightwave 3D) from my own calculations and my Norton Anti-V says it
is
> clean. I think you will find it worth your while. And there's a lot more
where
> it came from.
>      Thanks for your time,
>                   Reg
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:06:54 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Something To Think About
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Monroe,
You wrote:
<<   I know Joe Moore has stated that he doesn't like opening openly post=
ed
graphics files and I can certainly understand his, and any other person's=
,
reasons for not wanting to do so>>

I would like to see your jpeg, but am unwilling to download any attached
file from an unknown sender.  As your address is AOL, and they provide a
free WEB site, and in the past at least, they even supplied some simplist=
ic
software to make the site, I would ask that you create a WEB page so we c=
an
all look at your pictures and not have to worry about any type of virus.
Bob
http://members.aol.com/RoConroy/index.html
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Date:         Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:54:15 -0600
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From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Subject:      Re: Something To Think About
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Reg,
Very neat !
I've forwarded it to my work, so I can do a poster size color plot. I
really like your background and color schemes. Have you developed floor
plans and sections for the interior your structure ?
-Tony.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:24:19 PST
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Bussines plan
Content-Type: text/plain

it could be that the biggest business deals we have to understand
are the ones that deal with buying and selling stocks.

anyone on the list who have a handel on that subject can share.
i had the total value of currency exchanges around
the world, and also the value of stocks traded every year
noted somewhere. but what i really like to know is the mechanism- the
brian and mind of the whole business- how is it run.

it seem to me that a corporation is a mighty thing, like
a huge mind that invade a market from all direction.
sometimes i attribute to them high intelligence as if they
know allot of secrets that one individual can never know.

Fuller is 100% right, humans will never give up fighting
for money till they see that there is plenty of it,
then they will be bored by the whole subjects.
i still think our best bet is the connection of all electric
energy around the world- the fastest way to get everyone to
high standard of living.

some countries in the middest might be interested in big
projects. libya wasted 5 to 10 billion dollars for a pipe line from the
desert to the coast.

----------

some numbers:

 U.S gold holding   1934        7 billion $
                    1939        20   =     =
                    1949        24
                    1960        8    =     =

-----------
the value of farm real estate in the U.S

     1965        170 billion $
     1981        830    =    =

gain from farming

     1970        40 billion$
     1980       100  =     =

-----------

Fuller mention social security total value for 1980, or so,
in Crunch of the Giant,
i think it was  350 billion dollars i think( i red this book
in 1980s)

but up to 1965 and for 20 years before, the total for these 20 years
was 27 billion. this is not exact but it give you a picture of
the amount. i shall check later about this particular. the average
income of an american was 2000-4000 or there
about in the 1960s.
---------------
my message on navigation,
i made big mistake, i was tired when i listen to the BBC.
but friend on the list corrected me. the first
ocean navigation goes back to 800,000 years ago.
in Fuller speculation he thought it went back for more than
a million years-Fuller might be more correct about the past
than about the future.
------------------------
for double check these numbers. i always think that we don't have to
remember many
numbers and they don't have to be exact, the point is comparative
to see what is going on in the world. and if we can have them
in the archive we can always go there to check in case we need
to.
-----
Manging for the Future
Revolution in international finance
Gold

tagdi
p.s my seeming obsession with numbers had to do with my failer
in finding good books to read in the first years of my search,
 and also i had no correct target, i was confused mess.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date:         Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:48:55 -0500
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From:         "Jonathan B. Thompson" <coolbear@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Something To Think About
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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>
> I would like to see your jpeg, but am unwilling to download any attached
> file from an unknown sender.  As your address is AOL, and they provide a
> free WEB site, and in the past at least, they even supplied some
simplistic
> software to make the site, I would ask that you create a WEB page so we
can
> all look at your pictures and not have to worry about any type of virus.
> Bob
> http://members.aol.com/RoConroy/index.html

The concern about virus infection from a graphics file is unwarranted.
Graphics files can't possibly do that, not even remotely possible.  But I
can still understand from the perspective of the bandwidth issue.  In terms
of virus infection, it requires a file viewer (whatever it may be,
Microsoft Word, Excel, etc.) that has the possibility of executing steps
that affect the system according to the data.  No graphics files have the
possible ability that are being currently sent.  The closest possible thing
would be a PostScript file, since it is actually a Forth language variant,
and quite powerful.  However, the PostScript viewers are able to keep it to
only affecting the drawing on the screen.

The other possible method of graphics transmission that might be an issue
is to embed it inside of something that does have macro, scripting or full
language ability, such as Microsoft Word.  It would be the host document
that would potentially be dangerous.  In the case or suspected Word files,
the solution is incredibly simple:  Don't view them in Microsoft Word, but
use WordPad or some other processor that either does not support macros at
all or doesn't support VBA/Word Macros.  Then you are practicing safe hex.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:03:29 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Geoscope (Live!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

FWD TO GEODESIC FRM K URNER OWNER-SYNERGETICS-L

==============

Greetings Syn-Lers:

Found the appended email from our friend in DC, Ed Applewhite,
upon return from my out-of-town meeting this weekend.

Seems an interesting idea here -- of Al Gore's -- to position
a satellite with a webcam (high definition) showing the sun-
lit side of Earth full time -- free feed for cable TV and for
splicing in to news etc.

Has anyone heard of this?  Sounds like an interesting orbit
if it can really stay with its back to the sun, like a
photographer taking a family photo (smile pretty now).
That's not geosynchronous, which would keep the cam over
a specific spot, day or night.

A night view might not be such a bad idea either though, as
I understand you can see city lights 'n stuff, at least on a
clear night with a zoom lense.

Kirby

PS:  also have inbox from Chuck Dingee -- I'm cc-ing him to
ask what the World Game folks might know about this initiative
(he goes way back with WGI, is here in the Pacific Rim with
me).

============
From: Ed Apple <EdApple@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:20:11 EST
X-To: pd4xd@teleport.com
Subject: Geoscope Reborn as TRIANA


Kirby;

I want to propose a new thread for the Syn-L list:

The Washington Post for Friday 13 March1998 had a front-page story on
Vice President Albert Gore's proposal for an "all-Earth, All-theTime"
image to be transmitted from a small spacecraft to be stationed between
the Earth and the sun.  His proposed name for the 330 pound,
five-feet-diameter spacecraft is TRIANA.

This proposal represents a technological leapfrog over the Geoscope
proposals documented in so many of Buckminster Fuller's writings,  The
objective is the same: to transform for the passengers of Spaceship Earth
their image of themselves.

Gore introduced the idea at an MIT Smposium on 13 March.  It has beome
now a high priority project for NASA to implement.  More details are
probably available from the vice presdent's web site.

This idea of Bucky's has had a long gestation lag--but it now seems to be
bursting forth with an elegance and energy that all of Bucky's various
legacies--particularly World Game-- should take note of.

If you are not up to speed on this, I will type out the text of the full
article.

Ed

============

Note: here's the Washington Post article, which Ed also sent by
separate cover.  I see the piece explains about the orbit -- a
sweet spot where Earth and Sun tie the tug-o-war and so hold the
camera in tension, its back to the star.

I'm not too crazy about the proposed name as I find the Columbus
story oversold, but that's a mere footnote anyway, as people don't
generally name their cameras -- the imagery is what's critical
here (and I agree with Gore that reasons for providing such data
feed go deeper than whatever the strait-laced set might think re
"scientific value" of such a webcam).

Does this supercede the Geoscope?  Seems National Geographic
sort of did that already with its giant globe in the NGS museum
-- but there's no precision data display there either.  Still
need those consoles showing the whereabouts of all the biochem
weapons dumps ala Handford, WA -- the kind of thing WGI works
to stay up to date concerning.  The "blue marble" shot mainly
reminds us what's at stake, why we might want to live up to our
legacy and stop bungling it so blatantly, or at least cut back
some on that score.

Good idea of Gore's to have NASA refocus on an Earth-centric
agenda -- small, simple application of space-age technology with
an eye towards boosting self-awareness re the need to take care
of business at home, on the Mother Ship.

Kirby

===============

From: Ed Apple <EdApple@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:03:18 EST
To: pd4xd@teleport.com, wgi@worldgame.org, devarco@cruzio.com
Subject: Text of Post story on TRIANA


    The World, Live -- Just A Click Away

                    By Kathy Sawyer
                    Washington Post Staff Writer
                    Friday, March 13, 1998; Page A01

   Based on a moment of midnight inspiration, Vice
   President Gore today will announce his plan to make a
   live video image of the full, sunlit Earth --
   spinning on its axis against the blackness of space --
   continuously available to the world, via television
   and the Internet.

   The vice president's idea and, perhaps more important,
   his sense of urgency have triggered a scramble at NASA
   to make it happen inexpensively -- and fast.

   Gore plans to unveil the project today at MIT, in a
   speech to be delivered at a technology conference. He
   conceived the project a month ago, officials say, and
   he hopes to see it launched by 2000.

  The "all-Earth, all-the-time" images, to be
  transmitted from a small spacecraft stationed between
  Earth and the sun, would resemble the historic portrait
  of the fragile and isolated blue planet snapped by Apollo 17
  astronauts -- the last men on the moon -- on Dec. 7,
  1972, a picture that has become an icon. But the new
  version, capturing surface features as small as five
  miles square, would depict the motions of changing
  clouds, the advance of hurricanes, large-scale fires in
  oil fields or forests and other phenomena as they
  actually exist virtually at that same moment.

  NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin said he hopes to
  keep the project's cost close to $20 million and
  efinitely below $50 million, and will solicit commercial
  participation -- by a cable TV company, for example --
  to lower the costs even further.

  One earth scientist, upon hearing a description of the
  previously undisclosed project, said some experts may
  question the scientific value of the project, which
  as never been proposed through routine channels.

  But Gore, who has a blow-up of the Apollo 17 image
  mounted on the wall of his office in the West Wing of
  the White House, said he is convinced the project will
  have scientific, educational and spiritual benefits.

  "I believe there is tremendous scientific value in
  having constant live television pictures of the Earth. . . .
  With the entire hemisphere in view, fully lit by the sun,
  scientists will be able to analyze weather systems and
  cloud patterns in ways they cannot today," he said in
  an interview yesterday. "With global warming a
  growing concern, and with problems like El Nino
  causing growing concern, this will be of tremendous
  value."

  Asrar R. Ghassem, NASA's chief of earth science, and
  others noted that no such full-Earth images are
  currently available, though much of the globe can be
  pieced together in a mosaic from existing satellite
  images, and the Galileo probe took some snapshots as
  it rounded Earth on its way to Jupiter.

  The live Earth picture would be transmitted from a
  330-pound spacecraft -- about five feet in diameter --
  stationed 1 million miles out, orbiting the sun in
  tandem with Earth at the point where the sun's gravity
  exactly counterbalances that of Earth. Positioning the
  craft at that point will enable it to remain constantly
  aimed at the hemisphere of Earth that is in full
  sunlight and will minimize the need for engine firings
  to maintain its post.

  Gore said he has suggested that the spacecraft be
  named Triana, after Rodrigo de Triana, the lookout on
  Columbus's ship who first sighted the New World. The
  ground station network, he said, could be called
  Earth-Span, "with apologies to C-SPAN."

  The spacecraft is to be equipped with an eight-inch
  telescope and a three-color camera capable of twice
  the sharpness of high-definition TV, with the image to
  be "refreshed" every few minutes, Goldin said. Ground
  stations for the satellite are to be operated by
  university students, in keeping with the Clinton
  administration's push to increase interest in science
  and math.

  Some of those familiar with the project acknowledged
  that there are many "unknowns" connected with the
  mission and that there might be some skepticism
  about its value. But they pointed out that, before the
  first geostationary satellites were placed high above
  Earth, no one predicted all the uses that would be
  made of them.

  Gore, who has made protection of the global
  environment one of the core commitments of his
  political career, said he believes the Apollo program's
  "blue marble" images of Earth helped trigger the
  environmental movement. Of the new project, he said,
  "I believe it will have an inspirational value that's
  hard to describe."

  Goldin said he first learned of the planned
  announcement only last Friday, when Gore phoned
  him just as the NASA administrator was finishing a
  speech in Houston. And that was just weeks after Gore
  first presented the idea to Goldin, in mid-February.
  "My head is still spinning," Goldin said.

  After Friday, NASA added two more people to the four
  full-time employees working on the plan, he said.
  "They are on fire," he said. The team is trying to
  move quickly, he added, in keeping with Gore's wishes, but
  also hoping to avoid a "ready, shoot, aim" problem in
  racing the concept to implementation. Goldin
  emphasized that he hopes to bring the Republican-led
  Congress into the planning as soon as possible, within
  a few weeks.

  Gore almost literally dreamed up the idea in his sleep
  about a month ago, waking at 3 a.m. one night,
  according to a White House official. Later that
  morning, Gore did about 20 minutes' worth of research
  on the Internet, called Goldin, and by that afternoon
  had a NASA team assembled at the White House to
  discuss the idea and begin working out engineering
  concepts.


  (C) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company




---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:27:35 -0800
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Something To Think About
Comments: To: REGMONROE <REGMONROE@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <b90ec95.350be6dd@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, REGMONROE wrote:
>       I know Joe Moore has stated that he doesn't like opening openly posted
> graphics files and I can certainly understand his, and any other person's,
> reasons for not wanting to do so. But, I assure you that I created this file
> (in Lightwave 3D) from my own calculations and my Norton Anti-V says it is
> clean.

Aside from viral issues, there is the issue of conservation of bandwidth.
Sending pictures via e-mail is not always the best use of resources.  If
you were to put that graphic up in a WWW space you would be using
everyone's resources more efficiently.  There are many free WWW services
[1].

[1]     http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/pdx4free.htm

--
  Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/
  Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:06:54 -0500
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Brent A. Verrill" <Bullywug@AMERICA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Geoscope (Live!)
In-Reply-To:  <350d6872.433930011@news.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Kirby wrote:

>Does this supercede the Geoscope?  Seems National Geographic
>sort of did that already with its giant globe in the NGS museum
>-- but there's no precision data display there either.  Still
>need those consoles showing the whereabouts of all the biochem
>weapons dumps ala Handford, WA -- the kind of thing WGI works
>to stay up to date concerning.

Could you elaborate on this giant globe, where is it, is there a web site
describing, or showing pictures of it?

>  The spacecraft is to be equipped with an eight-inch
>  telescope and a three-color camera capable of twice
>  the sharpness of high-definition TV, with the image to
>  be "refreshed" every few minutes, Goldin said. Ground
>  stations for the satellite are to be operated by
>  university students, in keeping with the Clinton
>  administration's push to increase interest in science
>  and math.

Why stop with a camera and a telescope.  If most of the cost of the
satellite is getting the thing out there, then I would guess that for a
reasonable percentage more you could load the thing up with all sorts of
sensors.  I'm thinking specifically of an infra-red camera and perhaps a
doppler radar (though I don't know if this is feasable, resolution of radar
might be uselessly bad a million miles out).  Let's not be too short term
about this thing.  Yes it would be great, but lets not rush to get a
satellite out there and then have some scientist come along and say, "Damn
I wish I had mounted an atomic gortimizer on that thing."

>---------------------------------------------------------
>Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
>4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
>---------------------------------------------------------

Brent
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Date:         Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:38:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Sheila L Saunders <ssaunder@polaris.umuc.edu>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Sheila L Saunders <ssaunder@POLARIS.UMUC.EDU>
Subject:      unsubscribe to listerve
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


please unsubscribe to geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu

cool....sheila saunders ssaunder@polaris.umuc.edu
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Date:         Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:48:12 -0800
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From:         Walter Alter <walter@SABER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bussines plan
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> it could be that the biggest business deals we have to understand
> are the ones that deal with buying and selling stocks.

It is good to know the difference between educated investmentin stocks and
speculative investment in commodities, raw
materials and currencies.  The latter a danger to the economic
sovereignty of nations.

> Fuller is 100% right, humans will never give up fighting
> for money till they see that there is plenty of it,

Until the advent of the electric era corollary to the industrialrevolution
(some would rather call it "industrial renaissance"),
the world's affairs as well as its various psychologies were
driven by scarcity.  Fuller correctly anticipated the productive
capacity of nations to surpass the boundary threshold of
privation into the nirvana of permanent surplus.  This is, in fact,
the work of technology and its latter day variant, design
science- to invent greater efficiencies for converting the
raw materials of spaceship Earth into the necessities for
life and civilization.

It never ceases to amaze me that the Communist Manifesto
names the "spectre that is haunting Europe" to be "the
crisis of overproduction".  One can only muse with awe how
in hell 6 generations of progressive committed revolutionary
intelligentsia could fight, organize and die for such a moronic
assumption.  Socialism is dead because it was insane.

> then they will be bored by the whole subjects.
> i still think our best bet is the connection of all electric
> energy around the world- the fastest way to get everyone to
> high standard of living.

Transmission line loss dictates that a global electric gridis not as doable
with today's technology as is a dedication
to regional nuclear power generation.  Once you have
massive quantities of nuclear power you can use its
own surplus to plasma torch nuclear waste into non-harmful
matter without worrying about the half-life factor.  The anti-
nuclear power activist movement is racist and genocidalist.
Cold Fusion remains a viable area of investigation in spite
of the bogus denouncement by the press organs of the
science mafia.

>  and also i had no correct target, i was confused mess.

My mind ceased to grow past adolescence.  We should
compare notes.

Walter
http://www.saber.net/~walter
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Date:         Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:11:41 GMT
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Links to FBI (repost)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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[my newsreader says I posted this Jan 5 1998 but I'm not
finding a copy in the GEODESIC archives.  I want my
statements on the record vis-a-vis BFI and so am
reposting in case it was missed somehow

Note tagdi put 'FBI' instead of 'BFI' in the subject
line, hence my quip re 'Fun typo...'

-- KTU, March 17
'St. Patricks Day' 1998]


=================


Fun typo in the subject line dude.

Actually it's somewhat inaccurate to picture all of Bucky's
correspondence and stuff concentrated in one place e.g.
Santa Barbara.  For example, the actual recipients of his
communications have originals (duh) and therefore the
ability to pool copies with trustees (and not necessarily
the BFI). Plus Bucky himself did some redundant storage
(what we'd call "mirroring" in today's internet jargon)
-- not a whole lot, since he wasn't anal, but he wasn't
stupid either, had an engineer's sense of what it takes
to design a secure hull.

In sum, if BFI burned to the ground tomorrow, it would
be a great tragedy for future scholarship, but not a
complete loss -- with effort we could reconstruct a large
portion of the record.

Besides, I think BFI is at least doing a credible job of
warehousing safely, if not making much headway otherwise.
Some yellowing of papers and fading of photographs is to
be expected -- no real scanning in earnest has taken
place in the last 15 years, so we've likely lost some
of the original crispness and sharpness irretrievably
-- but time always takes its toll.

I don't know what insurance they carry -- part of why a
nonprofit is necessary is to keep such warehousing costs
externalized so the family can enjoy the benefits of
ownership without all the liability (plus the family
can every so often make generous gifts of copyrights
to this 501(c)(3) it controls, taking commensurate tax
deductions each time -- all perfectly legal of course,
although some board members didn't have the stomach
for all the fancy bookkeeping, the possible appearance
of a conflict of interest etc. and quit with letters
of protest (I have copies of some of these resignation
letters)).

Kirby

tom aagdii <aagdii@DDS.NL> wrote:

>the reason they kepth the archieves hidden for long could be
>that some want to derive profit, ego status, control.
>
>but my question is what is contained in this archieves, could
>it be more important than the  British Archieves which were storied
>in Canada during the second WW, from the fear that the german might
>get it.
>
>  tagdi
>
>  p.s in the past i was in haste, many drams, i hope things settle so
>one can take
>time to dig into the imprtant questions , invistiagation and solutions.

---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:08:24 -0800
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From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bussines plan
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Howdy --

Just had to respond here.  I absolutely agree about the unworkability of
socialism, and the fundamental insanity inherent in its doctrines.

Your comments on nuclear power are intriguing.  The basic problem with that
tech so far has been the fact that true accounting of ALL cost factors is
rarely done.  When you look at the history of that tech, it was developed as
an afterthought to weapons production.  Waste was not even really considered
until it had built up to dangerous levels, and there had been some accidents
(several which were concealed by socialist governments).  I also believe
that with a deeper understanding of harmonic relationships among chemical
elements, cheap waste conversion is quite possible.  However, i don't think
overall we will find that nuclear power as presently understood is going to
be as economical as other, future technologies which can be based on
"Harmonic Chemistry".

In cold fusion, you're dealing with what i call cross-harmonics between
certain elements, particularly hydrogen, lithium, and palladium.  As an
ongoing project, i have been developing educational methods to increase
understanding of elemental relationships, with a view towards creating
better physical materials and energy capture technologies.  This has been
written up as a paper called "Fundamentals of Harmonic Chemistry", which i
make available in draft form for an exchange.  (Note how the provision of
private exchange is the antithesis of socialism).  Anyone who wants to
discuss this further is welcome to e-mail me privately.

Instead of opposing nuclear power from the standpoint of racial and social
issues, we would all become wiser by applying the basic principles of cost
accounting to that technology, and thus discovering its true nature.  Also i
strongly recommend that students of Fuller look closely at the geometric
implications of the work of Nikola Tesla.  He was not able to complete his
research in a coherent environment, and thus we have a lot of guesswork in
terms of what he actually was working towards.  However, he did make many
clear statements as to the application of his principles to the generation
of abundant "free" electricity for all humans, which are contained in the
document "The Problem of Increasing Human Energy".  It seems as if he
anticipated the insights of Fuller.

At 12:48 AM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Until the advent of the electric era corollary to the industrialrevolution
>(some would rather call it "industrial renaissance"),
>the world's affairs as well as its various psychologies were
>driven by scarcity.  Fuller correctly anticipated the productive
>capacity of nations to surpass the boundary threshold of
>privation into the nirvana of permanent surplus.  This is, in fact,
>the work of technology and its latter day variant, design
>science- to invent greater efficiencies for converting the
>raw materials of spaceship Earth into the necessities for
>life and civilization.
>
>It never ceases to amaze me that the Communist Manifesto
>names the "spectre that is haunting Europe" to be "the
>crisis of overproduction".  One can only muse with awe how
>in hell 6 generations of progressive committed revolutionary
>intelligentsia could fight, organize and die for such a moronic
>assumption.  Socialism is dead because it was insane.
>
>Transmission line loss dictates that a global electric gridis not as doable
>with today's technology as is a dedication
>to regional nuclear power generation.  Once you have
>massive quantities of nuclear power you can use its
>own surplus to plasma torch nuclear waste into non-harmful
>matter without worrying about the half-life factor.  The anti-
>nuclear power activist movement is racist and genocidalist.
>Cold Fusion remains a viable area of investigation in spite
>of the bogus denouncement by the press organs of the
>science mafia.
>
>Walter
>http://www.saber.net/~walter
>
-- Michael Riversong **
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist **
Author of <Design Ecology> **
MRiversong@earthlink.net **
http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
MUSIC SAMPLE now available on the web site
QUALITY ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS - Take control of your life now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:57:44 -0500
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From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Bussines plan
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Michael,
You wrote:
<< This has been
written up as a paper called "Fundamentals of Harmonic Chemistry", which =
i
make available in draft form for an exchange.  (Note how the provision of=

private exchange is the antithesis of socialism).  Anyone who wants to
discuss this further is welcome to e-mail me privately.>>

      Please send a copy to me but in a more general response, I urge
anyone studying this line of research to simply set up a WEB page so that=

the material can be looked at and questions and comments can then be
intelligently sounded out.  =

Bob
Robert_Conroy@compuserve.com

      =
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Mar 1998 06:11:50 GMT
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From:         William Carlyle <netsales@TCSN.NET>
Organization: Verio Northern California's Usenet News Service
Subject:      PVC Domes Anyone?

Hello,
        William the Tinkerer here.  Does anyone know of a dome made of PVC pipe?
If so could you direct me to their website?

                                                                Thanks for your time,        WTT
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Mar 1998 06:26:58 -0600
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Subject:      Re: PVC Domes Anyone?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD5300.04B63F80"
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi. See http://www.gardendome.com which will point you to my web page, and
there you can see how I construct domes with the help of special
cylindrical connectors made of pvc, steel, etc.
I also use the square & rectangle pvc tubes for dome struts, but not the
round pipes. See the "Vinyl Domes" page.
-Ernie

----------
> From: William Carlyle <netsales@TCSN.NET>
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: PVC Domes Anyone?
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 12:11 AM
>
> Hello,
>         William the Tinkerer here.  Does anyone know of a dome made of
PVC pipe?
> If so could you direct me to their website?
>
>                                                                 Thanks
for your time,        WTT

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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Hi. See http://www.gardendome.com which =
will point you to my web page, and there you can see how I construct =
domes with the help of special cylindrical connectors made of pvc, =
steel, etc.<br>I also use the square &amp; rectangle pvc tubes for dome =
struts, but not the round pipes. See the &quot;Vinyl Domes&quot; =
page.<br>-Ernie<br><br>----------<br>&gt; From: William Carlyle =
&lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>netsales@TCSN.NET</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>&gt; To: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt; Subject: PVC Domes Anyone?<br>&gt; Date: =
Thursday, March 19, 1998 12:11 AM<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Hello,<br>&gt; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;William the Tinkerer =
here. &nbsp;Does anyone know of a dome made of PVC pipe?<br>&gt; If so =
could you direct me to their website?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks for your time, =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WTT</p>
</font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
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Date:         Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:11:07 PST
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      SOME IDEAS
Content-Type: text/plain

>
>some ideas:

astronomers-cosmologiest try to understand Universe as shape,
intriguing article in Scinetific america i think. while reading
 without understanding it, i felt it was a confusion in logical
catagories, not confussion in Gregory Batson logical types.

since the earth is so tiny, can anyone connect it to the rest
of Univers.

>Kepler resorted to crued form of integral calculus to find
>the area that the planets sweep in a period of time.
>he also attempted to find the volume of 190 or so solids by making
>a segment of a cone spinning on an axes in their plane.
>
>now that sound to me very irrational, my question is could
>you find volumes in another way.

Fymen diagrams seem to be close to Fuller victor transformation.
note that i just have noticed that knowing nothing of the subject.
it seems to be more beautiful than calculus sophisticated
 calculations.

>-----
>sin, cos and the rest of their sisters were invented in
>relation to astronomic calculations- to locate a particular
>star or planet;

 in a mysterious way  logarithm was founded on calculation using
sin, cos  formulas.
----
i think harmonic series goes like this 1,2,3,4,...

 i forgot the name of 1/2,1/3,1/4,...
---

  mathematician go off many times, so, the discipline of mathematics
is not continuous. when and if the major laws are set together
 one can cross pollinate them with further symmetrical scientific
 laws. just like Kepler used what the Greeks knew about the
 cone in finding the law of the areas-second law.

>----
>
> why is the earth float-reclining on its axis.
> i know it works like a tope, but why!
> ----------
>can anyone explain Fymen diagrams in simple jargon.
>
>----
>  making earth model
>
> 6,400,000 meter is the                   mount Everest 8,000meter
>radios of the earth
>
>  if we make a model of
>100 meter radius earth                    mount Everest would be
>                                           in the model
>
>   100  x  8,000
> --------------------- = 1/8  x100 = 12.5 cm
>     6,400,000
>
>
>  tagdi

 p.s thanks to Riversong.
  and by the way no hard feeling for the last problems,
   i have already forgotten and  trying to do my best to change
 my writing.
     i think now i have set myself close to 60 degree change
of subjects method of learning, i hope soon i luck out of my rhythm, who
knows.
christians like torture someone told me, i live in a christian
country, therefor you can imagine.

grain, and cereal statistic soon coming. with world game a new
strategy must be implemented i think, which to have net pages
of simple information that sums the phenomena under scrutiny.
the idea was swimming in my head before i was awake.

design after thought:
if one can make plans for one project each month, one can finish
12 in one year.



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date:         Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:40:50 PST
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      some ideas, corrections
Comments: cc: gdii@hotmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain

sorry, this email looked good  when i wrote it, but not when i looked
at it later. now the best method for me to avoid making the  same
mistake is to leave the message in my mail box for one day and then look
at it agian and then send it.

corrected
======
cosmologiest-astronomers try to understand Universe as shape,
intriguing article in Scinetific america i think. while reading
without understanding it, i felt it was a confusion in logical
catagories.

Kepler resorted to crued form of integral calculus to find
the area that the planets sweep in a period of time.
he also attempted to find the volume of 190 or so solids by making
a segment of a cone spinning on an axes in their plane.

======
Fymen diagrams seem to be close to Fuller victor transformation.
it is more beautiful than calculus sophisticated calculations.


-----
sin, cos and the rest of their sisters were invented in
relation to astronomic calculations- to locate a particular
star or planet.

logarithm was based on calculation using sin, cos algebra.

===
mathematician often go off on a tangent. mathematics is discontinuous.
when and if the major laws are set together
one can cross pollinate them with other symmetrical scientific
laws, like Kepler using what the Greeks knew about the
cone in finding the first and second law.

----
qs:
why is the earth (O)float-reclining on its axis.
it works like a tope, why!
----------
can anyone explain Fymen diagrams.

harmonic series 1,2,3,4,5,...
what is 1/2,1/3,1/4,1/5,....

----
earth model

6,400,000 meter is the                   mount Everest 8,000meter
radios of the earth

if we make a model of
100 meter radius earth                    mount Everest would be
                                           in the model

   100  x  8,000
 --------------------- = 1/8  x100 = 12.5 cm
     6,400,000


  tagdi


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Date:         Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:40:21 -0800
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From:         Walter Alter <walter@SABER.NET>
Subject:      Re: PVC Domes Anyone?
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PVC is awsome to play with.  I saw a mini dome (non-geodesic)
at the yearly amateur rocket club meet at Black Rock Desert,
Nevada.  2 2" X 10' pieces were joned together .  Four  3' lengths
of 1" pipe were driven into the lakebed at the corners of square
about 10' on each side, angled in towards the center.  Each 20 feet
of PVC was bent into a Mcdonalds arch and slid over the pipe at
diagonal corners.and joined by a through bolt at the apex of the
arch where the two lengths crossed.  A square plastic tarp was
stretched over the affair, guyed at the corners and tent pegged,
holding the whole thing to the desert floor.

Are you interested in a nomadic application or a permanent
structure?  I'm interested because I designed a "quonset"
type PVC structure for the Burning Man event two years ago.
I'll be attending next year's event and would be happy to
prototype any nomadic application you come up with.

Walter


William Carlyle wrote:

> Hello,
>         William the Tinkerer here.  Does anyone know of a dome made of PVC pipe?
> If so could you direct me to their website?
>
>                                                                 Thanks for your time,        WTT
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:36:30 -0500
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From:         Darrin R Zdanis <DARRINZ@PRODIGY.NET>
Organization: Prodigy Services Corp
Subject:      Geodesic Dome Home Hubs & Dimensions

Hello Everyone,

I'm interested in building a 45 foot, 3/8 dome home.  Does anyone know the
answers to the following two questions:

1. Where can I purchase the metal hubs used to tie the struts together?
I've read about basic kits that include hubs and struts, but these kits seem
relatively expensive, costing roughly $6,000 to $7,000.  If possible, I'd
prefer to buy the hubs alone, at the lowest possible cost.

2.  What are the degrees (angles) and dimensions for the metal hubs and
plywood triangles I would need for this size dome?

Thank you in advance for any information you provide.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:58:55 GMT
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From:         Filip De Vos <fidevos@EDUSERV1.RUG.AC.BE>
Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium
Subject:      Re: Bussines plan

Michael Riversong (MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET) wrote:
: Howdy --

: Just had to respond here.  I absolutely agree about the unworkability of
: socialism, and the fundamental insanity inherent in its doctrines.

: Your comments on nuclear power are intriguing.  The basic problem with that
: tech so far has been the fact that true accounting of ALL cost factors is
: rarely done.  When you look at the history of that tech, it was developed as
: an afterthought to weapons production.  Waste was not even really considered

It is actually worse than that: most commercial reactors are reactors of
the type suitable for powering submarines. One quality they have, not
needed by commercial ractors is their compactness.

: until it had built up to dangerous levels, and there had been some accidents

It is actually worse than that. In the USA, it is forbidden to re-use
muclear fuel. The 'waste' needed to be buried contains valuable fissile
isotopes of uranium and plutonium, meaning they are _fuel_ (I personnalmy
do not like this term, since nuclear fuels do not burn, and prefer
_energy-source).

: (several which were concealed by socialist governments).  I also believe

One of these socialist governments being that of the USA.
A good site with current thinking about nuclear power and comments about
the politics of the industry is:

http://www.openweb.com/AAE/

: that with a deeper understanding of harmonic relationships among chemical
: elements, cheap waste conversion is quite possible.  However, i don't think
: overall we will find that nuclear power as presently understood is going to
: be as economical as other, future technologies which can be based on
: "Harmonic Chemistry".

[cold fusion snipped]

--
      Filip De Vos                        FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be

          There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
                       --   John S. Lewis   --
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:49:44 GMT
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From:         Filip De Vos <fidevos@EDUSERV1.RUG.AC.BE>
Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium
Subject:      Re: Geoscope (Live!)

Kirby Urner (pdx4d@teleport.com) wrote:

: FWD TO GEODESIC FRM K URNER OWNER-SYNERGETICS-L

: ==============

: Greetings Syn-Lers:

I thought the list and the NG was completely coupled?

: Found the appended email from our friend in DC, Ed Applewhite,
: upon return from my out-of-town meeting this weekend.

: Seems an interesting idea here -- of Al Gore's -- to position
: a satellite with a webcam (high definition) showing the sun-
: lit side of Earth full time -- free feed for cable TV and for
: splicing in to news etc.

: Has anyone heard of this?  Sounds like an interesting orbit
: if it can really stay with its back to the sun, like a

The proposed location for Gore-sat is the Sun-Earth L1 libration point.
Several spacecraft allready trace orbits around this site, like ESA's
SOHO. Several threads on sci.space.policy deal with this. The general
consensus is that the costs would be relatively low (< $50million) and
that a state/NASA attempt would compete with a (putative) private venture.
Proposed market, in addition to the clients you state, are the
screensaver-byers!

: photographer taking a family photo (smile pretty now).
: That's not geosynchronous, which would keep the cam over
: a specific spot, day or night.

: A night view might not be such a bad idea either though, as
: I understand you can see city lights 'n stuff, at least on a
: clear night with a zoom lense.

Shuttle astronauts also report being able to see meteor-showers,
lightning, etc. They an definately see cloud patterns when there is a full
moon.


: From: Ed Apple <EdApple@aol.com>

: This proposal represents a technological leapfrog over the Geoscope
: proposals documented in so many of Buckminster Fuller's writings,  The
: objective is the same: to transform for the passengers of Spaceship Earth
: their image of themselves.

I don't think this is a technological lapfrog: for geoscope-projecting
images of earth, permanent viewing of the sunlit face is not neccesary.
Cameras in geostationary orbits (for instance cameras carried as sucondary
payloads on communication satellites) are more than sufficient.

I am more intrested in the proposed TV or film-like refresh rate of the
pictures. This is something completely new.

: Gore introduced the idea at an MIT Smposium on 13 March.  It has beome
: now a high priority project for NASA to implement.  More details are
: probably available from the vice presdent's web site.

(Kirby)

: I'm not too crazy about the proposed name as I find the Columbus
: story oversold, but that's a mere footnote anyway, as people don't
: generally name their cameras -- the imagery is what's critical
: here (and I agree with Gore that reasons for providing such data
: feed go deeper than whatever the strait-laced set might think re
: "scientific value" of such a webcam).

I agree that the value of such a camera is much more than just the
scientific value. I especially think that TV or film refresh rate is
important, drawing attention to the dynamic quality in a much stronger way
than time-motion weather-sat pictures. Meteosat pics are taken only every
half hour. (Meteosat is the one looking down on Africa and Europe)
Weathersats in low; polar orbit like those operated by the U.S.Air Force
do not revisit a site but every twelve hours. These obviously lack the
overall view.

: Does this supercede the Geoscope?  Seems National Geographic
: sort of did that already with its giant globe in the NGS museum
: -- but there's no precision data display there either.  Still

Then it is not a Geoscope?

: need those consoles showing the whereabouts of all the biochem
: weapons dumps ala Handford, WA -- the kind of thing WGI works
: to stay up to date concerning.  The "blue marble" shot mainly
: reminds us what's at stake, why we might want to live up to our

Some say (I believe Bucky amongst them) that the Apollo project ws shut
down because this Cold War demonstration mission unexpectedly united
humanity...

: legacy and stop bungling it so blatantly, or at least cut back
: some on that score.

: Good idea of Gore's to have NASA refocus on an Earth-centric
: agenda -- small, simple application of space-age technology with

I think NASA should leave this to smaller players.

: an eye towards boosting self-awareness re the need to take care
: of business at home, on the Mother Ship.

Kirby I think you should read the SF novel 'Snow Crash' by Neil
Stephenson. In it there is talk about a 'you are here' system, which ties
all kinds of spatial data in one format...

--
      Filip De Vos                        FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be

          There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
                       --   John S. Lewis   --
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:07:55 -0500
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From:         nicksanspam@ECE.VILL.EDU
Organization: Villanova University
Subject:      Re: PVC Domes Anyone?

William Carlyle <netsales@tcsn.net> wrote:

>Does anyone know of a dome made of PVC pipe?

Yes. There's one on my lawn, about 17' in diameter x 14' tall, made
with 25 10' pieces of 2" PVC pipe. Each end of each pipe is attached
with a 5/16" bolt to a steel tab made from 6" of stiff galvanized
strapping material with holes in it, and the hubs are made by putting
another 11 bolts through the free ends of the tabs. The lower 5 hubs
are bolted through the treads of 5 used "foundation" tires filled with
gravel. This structure will be covered with Bayer "Dureflex" urethane
plastic film, which is fairly clear, costs about 35 cents/ft^2, comes
in rolls up to 15' wide x 0.006" thick, and has a 10 year guarantee.
(Greenhouse polyethylene films are chemically incompatible with PVC.)

The film will be attached to the pipes with some 2" electrical conduit
cut lengthwise in thirds. The film on the walls will extend about 2'
outwards from the dome, laying flat on the ground, and that film will
be covered with some gravel to make a fairly airtight seal.

The dome might be made larger by cutting each pipe in half and slipping
the ends inside a slightly larger pipe, with a few sheet metal screws
to keep the pipes from sliding.

Nick

Nicholson L. Pine                      System design and consulting
Pine Associates, Ltd.                                (610) 489-0545
821 Collegeville Road                           Fax: (610) 489-7057
Collegeville, PA 19426                     Email: nick@ece.vill.eedeeyou

Computer simulation and modeling. High performance, low cost, solar heating and
cogeneration system design. BSEE, MSEE. Senior Member, IEEE. Registered US
Patent Agent. HI/DVC board member. Web site: http://www.ece.vill.edu/~nick
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:28:09 +0000
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From:         SM Stewart <sms1@GTE.NET>
Subject:      I am looking for
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

someone in the area where I live, which is in the Puget Sound area, who has built a
dome home. I would like to ask questions, and perhaps see what they have done,
and get information on building code problems, and so forth from someone in this
area. I am Northwest of Seattle, and will be looking into types of kits, land to buy,
so forth. Also, I am just curious, are there any communities anywhere that have
been built that are largely geodesic domes? Thanks, Sher
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:24:59 -0800
Reply-To:     oregon@ordata.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@ORDATA.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc.
Subject:      Re: I am looking for
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Sher,

We have built quite a few domes up in the Puget Sound area and are
looking to do quite a number more this year.  We have no problems with
the building codes and can provide you with the structure information to
get your permits.

There are no full fledged dome communities that I know of in your area
yet, although one of our dome owners up in Sequim is selling off pieces
of his property to people on the condition that they will build domes.
One (and perhaps two) of the raisings we are hoping for this year is
largely a result of his efforts.

Feel free to drop me a note or call me at (800) 572-8943 if you have any
questions.

SM Stewart wrote:
>
> someone in the area where I live, which is in the Puget Sound area, who has built a
> dome home. I would like to ask questions, and perhaps see what they have done,
> and get information on building code problems, and so forth from someone in this
> area. I am Northwest of Seattle, and will be looking into types of kits, land to buy,
> so forth. Also, I am just curious, are there any communities anywhere that have
> been built that are largely geodesic domes? Thanks, Sher

--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:27:36 -0800
Reply-To:     oregon@ordata.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Oregon Dome <oregon@ORDATA.COM>
Organization: Oregon Dome, Inc.
Subject:      Dome raising pictures
Comments: To: Holflin's dome list <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>,
          domesteading@sculptors.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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To all:

After years of moaning about the lack of dome raising pictures at our
web site, a bunch of our dome owners and others have come to our
rescue.  Making up for our lack of a scanner or digital camera, they
have e-mailed us pictures or set up their own web sites that describe
their projects.  I have finally gotten my act together and compiled
these into one place, a dome raising page at our web site.  Just hit our
site at www.domes.com and click on the button with the two dome panels
on it that says "raising" in big blue letters.  From there you can link
to the sites that owners have set up or click to view pictures that have
been sent to us.
--
Thanks,

Nathan Burke,
Oregon Dome, Inc.

E-mail:  oregon@domes.com
Web:  http://www.domes.com
Address:  3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR  97402
Fax:  (541) 689-9275
Phone:  (800) 572-8943
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:48:34 -0600
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Geodesic Dome Home Hubs & Dimensions
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My web page describes dome connector hubs that I make and sell (plus lots
of images, links and information). I use pvc and steel cylinders to attach
wood, pvc, and aluminum dome struts. The url http://www.gardendome.com
points you to the web page.
I currently make 7 basic dome frames with their various types and sizes;
and others such as 4 frequency icosahedral type can be done easily enough.
Each dome type has its particular set of geometric specifications: angles
etc.
-Ernie
>
> I'm interested in building a 45 foot, 3/8 dome home.  Does anyone know
the
> answers to the following two questions:
>
> 1. Where can I purchase the metal hubs used to tie the struts together?
> I've read about basic kits that include hubs and struts, but these kits
seem
> relatively expensive, costing roughly $6,000 to $7,000.  If possible, I'd
> prefer to buy the hubs alone, at the lowest possible cost.
>
> 2.  What are the degrees (angles) and dimensions for the metal hubs and
> plywood triangles I would need for this size dome?
>
> Thank you in advance for any information you provide.
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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><br><br>My web page describes dome =
connector hubs that I make and sell (plus lots of images, links and =
information). I use pvc and steel cylinders to attach wood, pvc, and =
aluminum dome struts. The url http://www.gardendome.com points you to =
the web page. <br>I currently make 7 basic dome frames with their =
various types and sizes; and others such as 4 frequency icosahedral type =
can be done easily enough. Each dome type has its particular set of =
geometric specifications: angles etc.<br>-Ernie<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I'm =
interested in building a 45 foot, 3/8 dome home. &nbsp;Does anyone know =
the<br>&gt; answers to the following two questions:<br>&gt; <br>&gt; 1. =
Where can I purchase the metal hubs used to tie the struts =
together?<br>&gt; I've read about basic kits that include hubs and =
struts, but these kits seem<br>&gt; relatively expensive, costing =
roughly $6,000 to $7,000. &nbsp;If possible, I'd<br>&gt; prefer to buy =
the hubs alone, at the lowest possible cost.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; 2. =
&nbsp;What are the degrees (angles) and dimensions for the metal hubs =
and<br>&gt; plywood triangles I would need for this size dome?<br>&gt; =
<br>&gt; Thank you in advance for any information you provide.</p>
</font></body></html>
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 02:14:34 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Walter Alter <walter@SABER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bussines plan
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Your comments on nuclear power are intriguing.  The basic problem with that
> tech so far has been the fact that true accounting of ALL cost factors is
> rarely done.

I've heard that France produces 75% of her electricy with nuclearpower.  If the
technology hadn't been stomped on by ideological
attitude cops, it would have been perfected, modular and
universal by now.  It is the only way you can industrialize the
3rd World and break the petroleum mafia's stranglehold.

> When you look at the history of that tech, it was developed as
> an afterthought to weapons production.

Yah, maybe, but you can pretty much say that about manytechnology
breakthroughs.  computers- direct descendant of
code breaking operations of WWII.  Transister- push toward
miniaturization of ICBM guidance systems.  Gunpowder,
penicillin, crazy glue, teflon, the internet...it's a long list.
National survival has been the engine of technology since
the boomerang.  A case can be made for the proposition that
weapons production is wht got us here from there.  It certainly
was the major R & D funding source for two generations.

> Waste was not even really considered
> until it had built up to dangerous levels, and there had been some accidents
> (several which were concealed by socialist governments).

True, that's what you often get with crash development programsand states of
emergency in general.  Lower the state of emergency
and axiomatically you increase the humanity of the technology.

> Also i
> strongly recommend that students of Fuller look closely at the geometric
> implications of the work of Nikola Tesla.  He was not able to complete his
> research in a coherent environment, and thus we have a lot of guesswork in
> terms of what he actually was working towards.

He was essentially forced into retirement by social control powers.The greatest
genius history has ever seen had his carrer destroyed
at the height of his inventive fertility.  He is the father of the "age of
electricity" and once the principles he was working with are again
understood, This planet will be able to mimic paradise.

> However, he did make many
> clear statements as to the application of his principles to the generation
> of abundant "free" electricity for all humans, which are contained in the
> document "The Problem of Increasing Human Energy".  It seems as if he
> anticipated the insights of Fuller.

He understood physical reality in terms other than what are beingapplied today
in physics research.  He referred to Hertzian waves
as a deception.  He knew EMF propagation as being compression
waves ocurring in a medium, no crippling wave/particle duality.  Unlike
many free energy or alternative physics heretics, his output of applied
technology was astounding and an indication that the loss of his work
was a crime against humanity.  He understood the theoretical
connection between mind and universe and claimed to be able to
produce a machine that would put human thought upon an imaging
screen.  Every one of his more outlandish later claims (inventions for
which he had only his mind as a laboratory) should be taken dead
seriously and as an indication that physics took a bridge out detour
at the turn of the last century.  Like Bucky, the fact that the fruits of his
genius are not part of the general science context is no accident.

Walter


>
>
> At 12:48 AM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> >Until the advent of the electric era corollary to the industrialrevolution
> >(some would rather call it "industrial renaissance"),
> >the world's affairs as well as its various psychologies were
> >driven by scarcity.  Fuller correctly anticipated the productive
> >capacity of nations to surpass the boundary threshold of
> >privation into the nirvana of permanent surplus.  This is, in fact,
> >the work of technology and its latter day variant, design
> >science- to invent greater efficiencies for converting the
> >raw materials of spaceship Earth into the necessities for
> >life and civilization.
> >
> >It never ceases to amaze me that the Communist Manifesto
> >names the "spectre that is haunting Europe" to be "the
> >crisis of overproduction".  One can only muse with awe how
> >in hell 6 generations of progressive committed revolutionary
> >intelligentsia could fight, organize and die for such a moronic
> >assumption.  Socialism is dead because it was insane.
> >
> >Transmission line loss dictates that a global electric gridis not as doable
> >with today's technology as is a dedication
> >to regional nuclear power generation.  Once you have
> >massive quantities of nuclear power you can use its
> >own surplus to plasma torch nuclear waste into non-harmful
> >matter without worrying about the half-life factor.  The anti-
> >nuclear power activist movement is racist and genocidalist.
> >Cold Fusion remains a viable area of investigation in spite
> >of the bogus denouncement by the press organs of the
> >science mafia.
> >
> >Walter
> >http://www.saber.net/~walter
> >
> -- Michael Riversong **
> P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
> Professional Harpist **
> Author of <Design Ecology> **
> MRiversong@earthlink.net **
> http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
> MUSIC SAMPLE now available on the web site
> QUALITY ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS - Take control of your life now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:58:16 -0600
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Subject:      Re: PVC Domes Anyone?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Can you publish a photo of your dome on the web?
I'd also like more information on the polyethylene vs. pvc chemical
incompatibility.
Will you ad any "solar heating and cogeneration system design" to your
dome?
-Ernie
----------
>
> Yes. There's one on my lawn, about 17' in diameter x 14' tall, made
> with 25 10' pieces of 2" PVC pipe. Each end of each pipe is attached
> with a 5/16" bolt to a steel tab made from 6" of stiff galvanized
> strapping material with holes in it, and the hubs are made by putting
> another 11 bolts through the free ends of the tabs. The lower 5 hubs
> are bolted through the treads of 5 used "foundation" tires filled with
> gravel. This structure will be covered with Bayer "Dureflex" urethane
> plastic film, which is fairly clear, costs about 35 cents/ft^2, comes
> in rolls up to 15' wide x 0.006" thick, and has a 10 year guarantee.
> (Greenhouse polyethylene films are chemically incompatible with PVC.)
>
> The film will be attached to the pipes with some 2" electrical conduit
> cut lengthwise in thirds. The film on the walls will extend about 2'
> outwards from the dome, laying flat on the ground, and that film will
> be covered with some gravel to make a fairly airtight seal.
>
> The dome might be made larger by cutting each pipe in half and slipping
> the ends inside a slightly larger pipe, with a few sheet metal screws
> to keep the pipes from sliding.
>
> Nick
>

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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Can you publish a photo of your dome on =
the web?<br>I'd also like more information on the polyethylene vs. pvc =
chemical incompatibility.<br>Will you ad any &quot;<font size=3D2>solar =
heating and<font size=3D2> <font size=3D2>cogeneration system =
design<font size=3D2>&quot; to your =
dome?<br>-Ernie<br>----------<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Yes. There's one on my =
lawn, about 17' in diameter x 14' tall, made<br>&gt; with 25 10' pieces =
of 2&quot; PVC pipe. Each end of each pipe is attached<br>&gt; with a =
5/16&quot; bolt to a steel tab made from 6&quot; of stiff =
galvanized<br>&gt; strapping material with holes in it, and the hubs are =
made by putting<br>&gt; another 11 bolts through the free ends of the =
tabs. The lower 5 hubs<br>&gt; are bolted through the treads of 5 used =
&quot;foundation&quot; tires filled with<br>&gt; gravel. This structure =
will be covered with Bayer &quot;Dureflex&quot; urethane<br>&gt; plastic =
film, which is fairly clear, costs about 35 cents/ft^2, comes<br>&gt; in =
rolls up to 15' wide x 0.006&quot; thick, and has a 10 year =
guarantee.<br>&gt; (Greenhouse polyethylene films are chemically =
incompatible with PVC.)<br>&gt; <br>&gt; The film will be attached to =
the pipes with some 2&quot; electrical conduit<br>&gt; cut lengthwise in =
thirds. The film on the walls will extend about 2'<br>&gt; outwards from =
the dome, laying flat on the ground, and that film will<br>&gt; be =
covered with some gravel to make a fairly airtight seal.<br>&gt; =
<br>&gt; The dome might be made larger by cutting each pipe in half and =
slipping<br>&gt; the ends inside a slightly larger pipe, with a few =
sheet metal screws<br>&gt; to keep the pipes from sliding.<br>&gt; =
<br>&gt; Nick<br>&gt; <br><br></p>
</font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:09:14 +0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         qiaoxh@CIM.COM.CN
Subject:      Machinery Products   (To set up business relation,
              explore bilateral cooperation.)
Comments: To: mardi-gras@mintir.fidonet.org
Comments: cc: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qiao Xiao Hong

China National Machine Components Co. (CMCC)
No.4 Erligou Zhong St.,Haidian District,
Beijing 100044, P.R.China

Fax:+86-10-6775-2019(Home)
Tel:+86-10-6773-5821(Home)
Fax:+86-10-6832-5368(Office)
Tel:+86-10-6832-5378(Office)
E-mail:qiaoxh@cim.com.cn
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sirs,

  First of all, I'd like to tell you that our product Catalogue is in the
end of this article (or: business connexion letter). Welcome to read the
article and the Catalogue carefully, because they may be helpful for you.
Thank you very much!
  I am China National Machine Components Corporation. (or: CMCC)  It is
belong to China National Machinery Industry Ministry. (or: CMIM) Meanwhile,
our company is a member of China Machinery Equipment Group, too.
  We are very happy to have an opportunity to pick acquaintance with you.
We are willing to set up a good business relationship and cooperation with
you from now on. We know that you are a very famous internet site, and a
commercial window in the world. We may guess that so far, your internet
site has helped to bring about more extensive touches!"connexions between
them who want to gain help. These positive!"beneficial works and already
obtained successes by your internet site let us feel very inspiring. We
hearty wish that the help/cooperation between your internet site and
various circles who from the world will be uninterrupted acquired new
development. Meantime, we also hope that CMCC can as a new friend of your
internet site in China. And through your enthusiastic introduction between
CMCC and some customers (which are interested to us and our machinery
products), we'd like to have good chances to find and straightly touch the
users, step by step to strengthen bilateral friendship and establish
extensive!"sincere business cooperation with these possible customers.
  Our company is such one which is in whole China specially organize and
arrange plants to produce machine components and sell them to users who
from home and abroad. Our principle is small product, low price, high
quality and large market. In other words, through producing many small
machine components, by low price which is as low as possible and
competitive, we make high quality products which are completely accord
with the demand of the drawings along with samples, to meet the huge
market needs of domestic and external customers.
  One big superiority of CMCC is, we have very strong ability to organize
and arrange a lot of excellent factories that they are under the system of
CMIM all over the country, to get and fulfill the user's machining trade
(by drawings as well as samples) orders who from internal & external,
especially some developed states. Because early before A.D.1988, the
predecessor of CMCC was CMIM's government department--the National
Machinery Components Bureau & the National Machinery Spare Parts Depart--
ment, so we have been familiar with a great deal of machining factories in
China. Now, on receiving the manufacturing orders according to investor's
drawings and samples, we will direct against to find the processional
manufacturers soon to process those products. These manufacturers in
processing similar products to the order's  have accumulated valuable
experience. This is the base that we ensure the product quality and meet
the need of users. The processing plants would welcome such order which is
great quantity and a few speciafications. For some orders which process
are very difficult and only a little quantity, nevertheless, we will still
do everything possible to arrange manufacturers to complete them.
  Another great preponderance of CMCC is the professional talent and
vocational knowledge. Here, CMCC--ourselves is a machinery whole set
technologic corporation. For example, in the past, myself had attended
school to learn mechanical manufacture subject for seven years (college 4
years and postgraduate 3 years), and was awarded Master's degree of
mechanical engineering. Between the period, was after the college
graduating and before studying postgraduate, I worked in a machinery plant
for three years. In the three years, I was specially engaged in the
processing technology of the machinery products. This let me accumulate
precious practical experience in machining various mechanical spare parts
and knew how to use many machine equipment. I have worked in CMCC for ten
years. My present job is especially export mechanical components to foreign
countries. In other words, I organize and arrange factories to process
various machinery spare parts according to the orders (by drawings &
samples) from external customers. A little products in these orders
sometime is very complex. Certainly, the requirement quantity of some
products are very large. In these export products, except major mechanical
spare parts, we export some rubber products. Please you look over our
product Catalogue (Part A and Part B). We think that our professional talent
superiority is extremely important. When we came into contact with some
external customers, between were through middle men (either Chinese or
foreigner) connecting business between us and last user. The middle men
do not know technology. They do not understand the mechanical terms, too.
So, this not only let us (including processing mills) spend plenty of time
and finance, but also such orders were difficult to be successed. Oppositely,
everytime while CMCC directly touched with final users from abroad, we can
well!"timely consult and deal with the technical questions that the plant
found in the order(drawing) of machining spare parts. We consider that any
technical question in each drawing which provided by the customer is very
key. Only after correctly understanding any technical demand of the drawing,
the factory adopt correspondent measures to machine qualified products which
satisfied by the users. One main characteristic of CMCC is we strictly
control the quality of any user's order. We look upon the quality of the
product as our life. To finely fulfill the exporting product contract, we do
our best at all times. We must tell the factory to study the drawings
carefully and then effectively arrange the key process links. If the factory
want to get some help, for the sake of guarantee the quality of the product
completly according with the whole technical demand of the drawing and let
the product be attained acceptable standard, it is necessary that CMCC may
send somebody to the factory, with the factory's general engineer and other
technical personnel even operating workers to analyse, deal with the
machining craft and adjust processing equipment. Only it be done this way,
through our practical endeavour, CMCC can set up one good business reputation
before the user. Considering China's national conditions, we may imagine that
nowaday a lot of China's foreign trade companies when they export machinery
products, their concrete order-handler perhaps just know international trade
knowledge and do not know mechanical theory & professional technology. We
feel that if the circumstance happens, then, for customers it is at least
not perfect, sometime it even produces serious consequence.
  Respectable Your Excellency, we know that at present there are many
developed countries, in their advanced industry, war industry, automobile,
oil & chemical industry, textile, papermaking, light industry, agriculture,
food processing, etc. field, there are so many machine components are
indispensable. This is the same as one and another skyscrapers in modern
cities are bound by every reinforcing bar and piled up by every pound
concrete. We think that our machine component products in whole world all
have vast market demand. Now, we clear notice the fact that there are a lot
of companies which want large quantity machine components every year. These
companies for us all be possible commercial customers that CMCC can cooperate
with them. Certainly, these companies all have many solid canal's machinery
spares merchants. Even so, we still think that between CMCC and those
potential users there are indeed the possibility and the base of
collaboration within the scope of providing various mechanical spare parts.
We are one small company. No matter how to look at any angle, CMCC cannot
compare with so many big corporations in the world. Nevertheless, as stated
above, CMCC has its speciality and preponderance. Our strong point is, we
have strong ability to specially organize and process various machinery
spare parts. China is a developing country. For the same spare part, its
manufacturing cost is even lower than developed nations. This prevalence of
the price is very obvious. We hope that if CMCC can be introduced by your
internet site (including to introduce to other relative internet sites
through your endeavour), we will have some chances to do a cordial friend
of those users who want processing mechanical spares.
  Dear sirs, as stated above, our company is such one which is specially
organize producing and selling machine components. We wish that with the
help of your internet site's positive bridge & tie role, we can find some
companies which need machine components. And please tell us their detailed
connection methods. Meanwhile, we also expect that you can introduce the
characteristic of CMCC to those relative corporations, and encourage &
promote them to be interested for our cooperative thoughts and suggestions.
In case, further by your internet site to persuade the relative policy--
making bodies and the purchasing departments of these corporation to touch
with CMCC and to order goods for us as soon as possible, it will be very
appreciated.
  It is necessary to explain that although CMCC is directly subordinate to
CMIM, but CMCC is independent accounting unit. For our normal business
behaviour, China Government Departments cannot wanton interfere. Oppositely,
China Government will vigorously advocate and endeavour our policy & method
of processing export trade. In a word, CMCC is a honest company which is
doing processing trade and other business activies. Now, we have set up
extensive connexions and collaborations with some customers from home and
abroad. All these connexions and collaborations are long--term and stable.
  We warmly welcome relative companies can cooperate with us, and CMCC is
ready to devote its endeavour to the user--nation's economy development and
the brilliant achievements of the relative corporations.
  Here, I want to emphasize a point to every customer who is willing to
cooperate with us, we hope to set up cordial business relation with any
company, either it is a big Corp. or a small even personal company. Because
at anytime we never forget this a well-known saying: The customer is the God!
  The business chance is infinite. The cooperative prospect is vast. We
eagerly hope that you can give a vigorous respondence for our cooperative
thoughts and suggestions.
  At last, excause me. All friends, I have a very important imformation to
tell you. If you are interested to our cooperative thought and our product
Catalogue, for more better proceed to business connexion and cooperation
between us and you, please you directly fax or send e-mail to me from now on,
Because I am very busy everyday for our export work, so I haven't enough time
indeed to join discussion and consultation with you about our products export
business in these world famous Usenet site, BBS (newsgroup) or Gopher, FTP,
Telnet, etc. Thank you very much!

  Your early reply will be very appreciated.
  Best regards.

                            Yours sincerely,

                                          QIAO XIAO HONG

                                        Date: Mar. 21, 1998
                                         in Beijing, China

                        Catalogue

Part A.   Machinery Products
 1. Belt pulley
   (such as taper pulley: SPZ, SPA, SPB, SPC, and pulley type: solid, plate,
    arm.)
    Synchronous belt wheel
   (Type: S, F, W.  Pitch No.: MXL, XL, L, H, XXH, T2.5/AT2.5, T10/AT10,
    HTD--3M or STPD/STS--S5M, HTD--8M or STPD/STS--S8M, HTD--14M or
    STPD/STS--S14M, HTD--20, etc.)
 2. Spring
    (such as: automobile suspension spring, valve spring for car and
     motorcycle series, large hot forming spring, motorcycle shakeproof
     spring brake spring and couple spring series, rectangular model spring
     series, etc. )
 3. Chain
    (various special industrial & agricultural chains, standard chains),
    Huge sprocket, chain shaft coupling
    (The size is bigger, the plant is more welcome.)
 4. Gear
 5. Axle, sprindle, crank, crank shaft
 6. Throttle, valve, sleeve
 7. Tappet
 8. Cam, cam shaft
 9. Piston, piston rod, piston ring
10. Automobile fittings
11. Rod, pull rod, connecting rod
12. Taper
13. Toggle, catch, liner
14. Cylinder
15. Supporter, joint, axle bush
16. Castings
17. Zinc castings & other nonferrous metal castings
18. Forgings
19. Plate spares
20. Punchings, punching panel
21. Steel tubes especially in stainless steel tubes & other various
    stainless steel products, such as stainless steel plate and kitchen ware.
22. Other various shape machinery spare parts

Part B.  Rubber products
 1. Belt: triangle belt (or: V--belt), NV--belt, automobile belt,
    ribbed belt, variable--speed belt, synchronous belt, double cogged
    timing belt, synchronous fan belt, flat belt.
 2. Rubber belt (or: conveying  belt)
    Such belt (the plies inside the belt may be 2--12) comes in varieties
    in accordance to its application as ordinary, reinforced nylon, heat--
    proof, cold--proof, oil--prool, acid--proof and food--type.
 3. Sidewall (Type: W, M, WM.)
 4. Some other shape rubber products.

    QIAO XIAO HONG
    Engineer, MME, Director of CMCC's ITD
    Fax No.: 0086--10--6775--2019
    Tel No.: 0086--10--6773--5821
    E--mail: qiaoxh@cim.com.cn
    Corp.:   China National Machine Components Corporation (or: CMCC)
    Address: No. 4 Erligou Zhong St., Haidian District,
             Beijing 100044, P.R.China
    Note:
    1. MME is Master of Mechanical Engineering.
    2. ITD is the International Trade Department.

    The end.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:45:39 -0500
Reply-To:     monkey@one.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         David Anderson <monkey@ONE.NET>
Organization: Flying Monkey Software
Subject:      Re: Geodesic Dome Home Hubs & Dimensions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Darrin R Zdanis wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> I'm interested in building a 45 foot, 3/8 dome home.  Does anyone know
> the
> answers to the following two questions:
>
> 1. Where can I purchase the metal hubs used to tie the struts
> together?
> I've read about basic kits that include hubs and struts, but these
> kits seem
> relatively expensive, costing roughly $6,000 to $7,000.  If possible,
> I'd
> prefer to buy the hubs alone, at the lowest possible cost.
>
> 2.  What are the degrees (angles) and dimensions for the metal hubs
> and
> plywood triangles I would need for this size dome?
>
> Thank you in advance for any information you provide.

Check out my site for the method of calculating the dimensions for
geodesics...

--

- Dave Anderson  monkey@one.net  http://w3.one.net/~monkey
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:27:22 +1100
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Bruce #33 <filtin@CURIE.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Organization: DIALix Internet Services
Subject:      HELP NEEDED!

Desperately seeking Domebook 1 or Domebook 2, or related
owner builder material. Are there any copies still
available, preferably, in Australia.
Thanks in advance.

Android Fjord
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Mar 1998 06:57:15 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         dbaer@WIZARDSINC.NET
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Subject:      Re: HELP NEEDED!

In article <890457874.582738@fermi.dialix.com.au>,
  "Bruce #33" <filtin@curie.dialix.com.au> wrote:
>
> Desperately seeking Domebook 1 or Domebook 2, or related
> owner builder material. Are there any copies still
> available, preferably, in Australia.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Android Fjord
>
>
I have Domebook 2, and also Domebook 3, which is included in an
out-of-print publication called "Shelter"........I also have a very good
publication on cutting/building your own panelized dome.
Feel free to contact me via email for more information.....
Dave Baer

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Mar 1998 12:15:11 EST
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         StarCon101 <StarCon101@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: HELP NEEDED!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-03-21 11:24:12 EST, you write:

<< .I also have a very good
 publication on cutting/building your own panelized dome.
 Feel free to contact me via email for more information.....
 Dave Baer >>

Dave...

How much is your publication for building panel domes?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Mar 1998 06:02:08 -0600
Reply-To:     foxfire13@geocities.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Fox Fire <foxfire13@GEOCITIES.COM>
Organization: Planet Digital Network Technologies
Subject:      Eratosthenes' map of the world?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does any one know where I can obtain a poster size reproduction of
Eratosthenes 200 B.C. map of the world? Any one want to create one?

I mounted my "Our Spaceship Earth" satellite view/Fuller projection
poster from The Buckminster Fuller Institute and I think it would be
very interesting to display it next to Eratothenes map.

                        -Curt Flowers
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:03:12 -0600
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Subject:      Re: PVC Domes Anyone?
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

Nick,
Do you have a contact/source for "Dureflex" Film ?  What are their
typical roll sizes ?  Do they have opaque versions of Dureflex ?  A 10
year life would be great.  Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks,
-Tony.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:59:27 -0600
Reply-To:     ega@fastlane.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Ernie Aiken <ega@FASTLANE.NET>
Subject:      dureflex film
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD5514.9E055B60"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BD5514.9E055B60
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bayer Dureflex web page is at
http://www.exhibitdynamics.com/Bayer/orgs/bayer/unpro/greenrel.htm
-Ernie
------=_NextPart_000_01BD5514.9E055B60
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Bayer Dureflex web page is at =
http://www.exhibitdynamics.com/Bayer/orgs/bayer/unpro/greenrel.htm<br>-Er=
nie</p>
</font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BD5514.9E055B60--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:33:29 -0500
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From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      HELP NEEDED!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Android Fjord,
You wrote:
>>Desperately seeking Domebook 1 or Domebook 2, or related
owner builder material. Are there any copies still
available, preferably, in Australia.
Thanks in advance.>>

      I have uploaded a metric fabrication chart for the basic truss of a=

10 meter diameter dome on my WEB site.  The cutting charts are for use wi=
th
90x45 millimeter lumber. The URL is:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/32metric.htm
Being as I live in an English unit country, the USA, I was unable to fiel=
d
test the design. I have field tested the original English unit design whi=
ch
was then modified to incorporate the metric dimensioning.
Bob
Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:54:45 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: Why do corps give to controversial causes?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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dr@ripco.com (David Richards) wrote:

>In article <6esjn7$5ui$1@usenet51.supernews.com>, Info <joplin@kans.com>
wrote:
>>I don't shop Target and I don't think anyone should.  They support Planned
>>Parenthood( AKA Abortion on demand.)
>
>WHY do big consumer-driven companies (Target, AT&T, Sara Lee, Ben & Jerry's)
>give money to "charities" that are so extreme and widely-reviled that the
>corporation should KNOW donations to them will alienate a segment of their
>customer base?
>

I think you forget that corporate principals have leanings, that
their capital surplus is their own (depends on the stock holdings,
but in many cases a family has strong input), and the strategic
decision to commit funds to this or that "inflammatory cause"
is not about pandering to the public.  You pander to the public
with sales, slick advertising, convenience, friendly customer
service.  You earn your surplus.  Then you do what you will with
that, because the USA is designed in a way that rewards capitalists
with the right to throw their weight around.  I'm not saying this
design is all it could or should be, just stating the facts of
the matter.

In sum, the "buying public" tends to cancel itself out on the
issues of the day in a lot of ways, plus has its own channels
for self expression (as a CEO myself, I can shop at Target, know
that I'm helping pay for charities I might or might not personally
support, and walk away with a clear conscience, because my own
corporate network is likewise pandering to clients and amassing
an arsenal of expendable surplus thereby).

What's true about the USA also is that there's sufficient buying
public to float consumer-driven companies in niche markets who
want to take very strong, hard lines on issues of the day.  For
example, if I'm against current logging practices on public
lands in the Pacific Northwest (which I am, as a proud Oregonian
who wants to save this State's ecosystem heritage for future
children to enjoy -- what precious little is left of it), I can
set up a vendor outlet on the web or in storefronts that makes
it very clear to buyers that a %% of their purchase price is
going directly into multi-media advertising that is by all
measures pure propaganda (which still has to be factually-based
and highly informing, if it's to be really effective).

The timber companies and other industry groups self-promote in this
way all the time, flagrantly, exercising their right to commit surplus
into self-serving messages for public consumption.  As an Oregonian
and a USAer (still have that passport), I likewise have the privilege
of using surplus to convey my message, in collaboration with my
investor groups. I don't need to wait for a politician to take the
lead on the issue either -- may consider that political crowd too
cowardly and corrupt as a rule of thumb (might be more likely to
contract with a Hollywood actor or TV personality with a proven
track record and integrity -- someone like Meryl Streep or Paul
Newman and like that).

Kirby

For further reading:
http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9703&L=geodesic&D=0&H=&T=&O=T
&F=&P=10195

---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:32:34 -0800
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why do corps give to controversial causes?
Comments: cc: Walter Alter <walter@saber.net>
In-Reply-To:  <3515678d.174355853@news.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> dr@ripco.com (David Richards) wrote:
> >In article <6esjn7$5ui$1@usenet51.supernews.com>, Info <joplin@kans.com>
> wrote:
> >>I don't shop Target and I don't think anyone should.  They support Planned
> >>Parenthood( AKA Abortion on demand.)
> >
> >WHY do big consumer-driven companies (Target, AT&T, Sara Lee, Ben & Jerry's)
> >give money to "charities" that are so extreme and widely-reviled that the
> >corporation should KNOW donations to them will alienate a segment of their
> >customer base?

First: Planned Parenthood is not 'extreme and widely-reviled.'
Second: Larger corporations than these have given money and more to
earnestly extreme and widely reviled organizations like the US Military.
It has not been to their financial or social disadvantage to do so,
although it should be.
Third: alienation of a segment of a customer base, when that customer base
is on the scale of multi-billions, doesn't even measure on the corporate
screens.
Fourth: faced with the size disparity between the individual and the
multi-national, some individuals have felt they could do nothing that
influenced things on a global scale.
Fifth: Buckminster Fuller suggested that rather than becoming involved in
conflict, one should create artifacts that render the conflics obsolete.
His example (dymaxion & geodesic housing & transportation and the World
Game in particular) shows that solutions can be generated, even if they
are not carried out.

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Mar 1998 03:49:13 PST
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      scenario strips-
Content-Type: text/plain

from an english newspaper( sunday times) i think that you don't
get english news papers in the U.S

fragments from Sunday Times:
scientist hope to explore Lake Vostok in Antarctica with a robot
designed to look for extraterrestiral life.

Richard Hoover, an astrophysicist at Nasa Marshall Space Flight
Center said: "we've found some really bizarre things- things we have
never seen before. we're exploring a new world."

----

another article about tensegrity in American Scientest magazine,
in the last issue.

-------

Scientific Americas had an article in this month issue about
the Viking boat building ability. based on a finding of
a long boat near Norway coast.

i copied this article to read later, and in the same week i found
an article about the finding about the similarity of gene of
the english people, which the author say that it goes to the
stone age, and the mixture from other people like the Viking
 celtic( who came from Austria), or the germanic is nonexistant.

this is, if the scientific study have these accurate evidence, how
myth can be eliminated. it seems that myth can die hard in
some cases than others, it might have relation to how
accurate the studies are doen and how accurately stated.

i thought that these two articles make a good two frames that
can be added to scenario Universe for farther illumination when
time comes, giving that the brain chemistry do good
developing and good restating.

what is interesting the Viking had very great skills in building
this boats, i could see it from the illustration in the magazine.
this proves that it was not that difficult as Fuller mentioned
to flip the boat and make it a house.

the Viking dominated europe from eight century A.D to 12 century,
3 centuries. i do not know for how long they existed.

if i want to add the scenarios that been sent this month, they
look like this: scientific dating of Polynesian ocean navigation

                Viking dominance and boat building

                British gene pool

if you have no idea about this subject, read Fuller book
Cosmology.

 tagdi

  we might someday make break through that show in simple terms
  how to gear the society toward good direction. something about
  that in tetrascroll.

  behaviour of the whole not understood by the parts.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Mar 1998 04:17:40 PST
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      CEREAL AND GRAIN
Content-Type: text/plain

one way of looking at this is to not the larger, mediam and smaller
exporter, and to the same for imports.
i send it as a refrence, dont remember anything.

world statistics:
Major net cereal imports and exports

1987
Imports              Exports (million tons)
----------------------------

USSR   29             U.S        83
JAPAN  27             CANDA      28
CHINA  16             FRANCE     26
EGYPT   9             AUSTRIA    18
KOREA   9             ARGANTINA   9
SAUDIA                THAILAND    6
ARABIA  8             U.K         4
IRAN    5             S.AFRICA    2
ITALY   5             DENMARK     1
MEXICO 5              NEW ZEALAND .2
IRAQ   4

------------------

THE GRAIN TRADE WHO EXPORTING AND WHO IS IMPORTING(NEW YORK TIMES 1988)

MILLION METRIC TONES
1960 1970 1980 1988( the numbers in the graph)

the pluse means exporting, minus means importing.

         131
             119
     56

  39                                          22
                   0 4  -10 -11    WESTREN ERUOPE  E.ERUOPE
  ---------------  -----------    --------------  ---------
  NORTH AMERICA    LATIN AMERICA   -26 -30 -16         -46 -27



   AFRICA             ASIA                 6  12  19  14
  ---------------   ----------------      -------------
   -2 -5 -15 -28     -7  -37 -63 -89      NEW ZEALAND, AUSTRLIA

 refrence
 LIVING DANGERIOUSLY- i took this information from this dense book
 and i returned it to the library.

  tagdi



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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:03:25 -0600
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From:         Dennis Johnson <djohnson@NATURALSPACESDOMES.COM>
Organization: Natural Spaces Domes
Subject:      Re: HELP NEEDED!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

dbaer@WIZARDSINC.NET wrote:
>
> In article <890457874.582738@fermi.dialix.com.au>,
>   "Bruce #33" <filtin@curie.dialix.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Desperately seeking Domebook 1 or Domebook 2, or related
> > owner builder material. Are there any copies still
> > available, preferably, in Australia.
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Android Fjord
> >
Hello Android:
We have Domebook 1 & 2 for floor plans and the construction
Manual.  1-800-733-7107
Natural Spaces Domes
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:23:12 -0600
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From:         dbaer@WIZARDSINC.NET
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Subject:      List Of Books Available

Here is a corrected list of the books I have about dome building:

1. The Dome Builders Handbook   Published 1973   John Prenis

2. The Dome Builders Handbook No.2  Published 1978 William Yarnall

3. Shelter (contains Domebook 3) Published 1973 by Shelter Publications

4. Professional Dome Plans  Published 1987  Jeffrey O. Hill

Most of the chord factors from Domebooks 1&2 are contained in the first
two books. The last book contains information on cutting and fabricating
panelized domes.
Please email for more information.

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Date:         Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:47:56 EST
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From:         RDykster <RDykster@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: PVC Domes Anyone?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Structural Visions out of Oregon makes wonderful PVC, fiberglass, and aluminum
domes of any size.  You can order various covers made of polyethelene, and
wood panels.  1-541-997-5786.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:08:40 +0000
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From:         SM Stewart <sms1@GTE.NET>
Subject:      anyone wanting to share some personal experience on dome building?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I would like to hear from some dome dwellers, especially those who are near the
Seattle area. Thanks, SS
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:54:52 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      BFI moving to Mexico City?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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BFI is moving to Mexico City?  Or was it Omaha?  So hard to
sort fact from fiction on the BFI front these days.

The rumors fly, thick and fast.  Russ tells me staff is gone,
heard that from Bonnie.  Jay confirms:  BFI is moving.  But
where?  "Going virtual" is the rumor -- which would suggest a
merger with Joe Moore's BFVI.  That makes a lot of sense, as
Joe's "virtual institute" has done a lot more to index
Fuller's writings, gratis, than anyone employed by the BFI,
if memory serves.

I keep checking the website (www.bfi.org) but obviously that
was scrapped almost a year ago -- and no one has the authority
to delete what is now mostly misleading misinformation. Maybe
the disk janitors at the Critical Path Project (Kiyoshi & Co.)
will show mercy and haul this dead horse off for rendering.
Certainly BFI earns no new donors, and probably loses old
ones, by leaving a vacated, decaying carcass on the web
(not very ecological).

Another rumor is BFI now plans to digitize all the relevant
archives, the books as well, and dump these assets in the public
domain ASAP.  If that's the case, then maybe I'll put 'Critical
Path' and 'Grunch of Giants' on the web tonight (I use scanned
copies for personal use -- helps with keyword lookup when I
want the right quotes 'n stuff).  No need to wait for the
BFI on this one -- save 'em some time and effort (the archives
itself is a big enough job and last I knew only one scanner had
been procured, well over a year ago -- don't know if it ever
got used for much).

Is the Alameda Padre Serra site already padlocked, spider webs
growing, or have the U-Hauls yet to show?  Anyone out there
live in Santa Barbara?  How about calling a local TV station
and suggest getting some historical footage, some interviews:
"Big name charity folds tent"; "Think tank of tomorrow moves
to astral plane" -- something punchy, maybe with a new age
spin (like what we'd expect from California).

This retreat into rumors and hearsay in place of direct
communications on the part of top management has all the
hallmarks of a secretive cult taking form.  Reminds me of
that Scientology ship that still keeps to itself off-shore,
out of range, fielding away-teams now and then to keep
Church members apprised of the latest hard core dogmas
(Hubbard may be long gone, but the bank accounts are
certainly real enough to keep the wheels of belief
turning). Perhaps BFI is merging with the Church of
Scientology?  I must say I like that BFVI scenario
better (do we get to vote?).

Stay tuned.  I'm sure we'll be hearing more soon from
more officially authorized sources (obviously I'm not one
of them).

Kirby
exBFI webmaster

---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 24 Mar 1998 00:13:32 -0800
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From:         Walter Alter <walter@SABER.NET>
Subject:      Re: CEREAL AND GRAIN
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Equally interesting, at least from an American standpoint is that
90% of all U.S. grain is warehoused and shipped by 5 companies
all of which are European owned- Cargill, Bunge, Continental,
Dreyfus and Nestle.  Can you spell cartel?

Walter



mohamed aagdii wrote:

> one way of looking at this is to not the larger, mediam and smaller
> exporter, and to the same for imports.
> i send it as a refrence, dont remember anything.
>
> world statistics:
> Major net cereal imports and exports
>
> 1987
> Imports              Exports (million tons)
> ----------------------------
>
> USSR   29             U.S        83
> JAPAN  27             CANDA      28
> CHINA  16             FRANCE     26
> EGYPT   9             AUSTRIA    18
> KOREA   9             ARGANTINA   9
> SAUDIA                THAILAND    6
> ARABIA  8             U.K         4
> IRAN    5             S.AFRICA    2
> ITALY   5             DENMARK     1
> MEXICO 5              NEW ZEALAND .2
> IRAQ   4
>
> ------------------
>
> THE GRAIN TRADE WHO EXPORTING AND WHO IS IMPORTING(NEW YORK TIMES 1988)
>
> MILLION METRIC TONES
> 1960 1970 1980 1988( the numbers in the graph)
>
> the pluse means exporting, minus means importing.
>
>          131
>              119
>      56
>
>   39                                          22
>                    0 4  -10 -11    WESTREN ERUOPE  E.ERUOPE
>   ---------------  -----------    --------------  ---------
>   NORTH AMERICA    LATIN AMERICA   -26 -30 -16         -46 -27
>
>    AFRICA             ASIA                 6  12  19  14
>   ---------------   ----------------      -------------
>    -2 -5 -15 -28     -7  -37 -63 -89      NEW ZEALAND, AUSTRLIA
>
>  refrence
>  LIVING DANGERIOUSLY- i took this information from this dense book
>  and i returned it to the library.
>
>   tagdi
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date:         Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:40:29 -0800
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Design Science & Deity
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <Synergetics-L@teleport.com>
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Buckminster Fuller believed in a deity.  His proof of this deity included
the order of Universe, which he (Bucky) provided a means to measure in
synergetics and (perhaps) his experience on the waterfront as a young man.

Fuller spoke of humans being "designed" to succeed (his word).  Coupled
with his belief in a deity, this suggests to me he believed this deity
designed humanity to succeed (although humans may elect instead to self
destruct).

I do not believe in a designing force behind or outside of Universe.  I do
not believe Universe has a single consciousness.  I believe Fuller's
'scenario' Universe may include some large 'knots' of self-awareness but I
do not believe there is an all-inclusive self-awareness.  I could see
Universe as 'self-designing' as much as I could see it as simply 'self.'

What Bucky thought is an important point of reference in my understanding
of the implications of his work.  Did Bucky state that belief in a deity
was a requirement for design science?

--
  _________________________________________
  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
  | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
  | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
  -----------------------------------------
   http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:25:45 -0600
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From:         anthony kalenak <amkalenak@WEBTV.NET>
Subject:      Re: Design Science & Deity
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If you want to know what Fuller thought aout God, look at page 153 in
"Critical Path".  He prefaces his remarks with," I am confident,
contrary to the Russian assumption that science invalidates all
possibilities of the existance of God, that, as specifically argued, my
following declaration constitutes a scientifically meticulous,
direct-experience-based proof of God.".
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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:27:45 -0800
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From:         Michael Riversong <MRiversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Funny Kid Story
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This came across on another list, and i got permission to re-post it to this
group:

>Here is a funny thing you all might appreciate.  While at the IL homeschooling
>conference, Jess and I made a dodecahedron from a kit, in a workshop.
>It's made of wooden sticks and connectors and is about 2 feet in
>diameter.  It is a globe shaped object with many sides.  Actually , it's
>much more than that, but I know I'll explain it wrong if I try, so
>forget that part of this story.
>
>As we were getting to leave the conference, a little boy, about 5 maybe,
>asked me what my wooden thingie was.  I proudly said, "It's called a
>dodecahedron!"  He said (with a perfectly straight face), "I know
>something you can do with it.  You can put one of my action figures in
>the middle and then roll it around with the guy in the middle and you
>can call that a lesson!"
>
>Becky in IL

-- Michael Riversong **
P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900
Professional Harpist **
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MRiversong@earthlink.net **
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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:51:08 -0600
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From:         Curt Flowers <cjflower@UIUC.EDU>
Organization: University of Illinois
Subject:      Re: Design Science & Deity
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"Acknowledging the mathematically elegant intellectual integrity of
eternally regenerative Universe is one way of identifying God." R.
Buckminster Fuller, Critical Path, Pg 159

I can't speculate whether or not he said this belief was a requirement
for design science. He did teach us to think for ourselves, however.

P. O. Box 2321 wrote:
>
> Buckminster Fuller believed in a deity.  His proof of this deity included
> the order of Universe, which he (Bucky) provided a means to measure in
> synergetics and (perhaps) his experience on the waterfront as a young man.
>
> Fuller spoke of humans being "designed" to succeed (his word).  Coupled
> with his belief in a deity, this suggests to me he believed this deity
> designed humanity to succeed (although humans may elect instead to self
> destruct).
>
> I do not believe in a designing force behind or outside of Universe.  I do
> not believe Universe has a single consciousness.  I believe Fuller's
> 'scenario' Universe may include some large 'knots' of self-awareness but I
> do not believe there is an all-inclusive self-awareness.  I could see
> Universe as 'self-designing' as much as I could see it as simply 'self.'
>
> What Bucky thought is an important point of reference in my understanding
> of the implications of his work.  Did Bucky state that belief in a deity
> was a requirement for design science?
>
> --
>   _________________________________________
>   |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |
>   | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> |
>   | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo |
>   -----------------------------------------
>    http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.htm
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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:35:13 PST
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From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      FBI, Grain,  Dodecahedron,  Creation,
Content-Type: text/plain

FBI,
why not send a message to the institute itself, let them answer
for why they have not done anything.

i thought that Alegra is involved in the project, as far
as i know she wants the work to go forward.
we don't even know what is the problem, we mostly live on
illusions.
i thought they were doing important work.

-----------

thanks Walter Alter for the info, can you say more like where are their
headquarters are based.

-----
dodecahedron
i think it was Kepler who discovered VE, it is not important
that i say he discovered 2 of the star tetras.
also the Greeks thought the dodecahedron was the shape of Universe.

-----

creation
 imagine Hydra galaxy of galaxy, 4 billion light
years back in the scenario in the past receding at 61,000 miles/second.
antarctica nice shape.
the artery inside the human body.
these 3 special case pictures from integral Universe designs.

tagdi




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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:49:34 GMT
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From:         tres@CALI.NET
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Subject:      !! < FREE NAUGHTY SCREEN SAVER >

Collect your copy here:


http://server1.caligula.net/pages/previewindex.htm
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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:22:17 -0500
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From:         John Belt <belt@OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Design Science & Deity
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        Anthony & list All...
        Another reference from the inside front dust jacket of Fuller's
book:  INVENTIONS....                     ISBN 0-312-43477-4 --1983c
        The Patented Works of R. Buckminster Fuller

        "My task was not to preach about God,
        but to serve God in silence about God."
                                        RBF

---------------------------------------------------------------------
John Belt, Design Faculty               Phone:  (Office)315-341-2868
Department of Technology                        (Studio)315-341-2867
SUNY Oswego                             Fax:    315-341-3363
Oswego, NY 13126
---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, anthony kalenak wrote:

> If you want to know what Fuller thought aout God, look at page 153 in
> "Critical Path".  He prefaces his remarks with," I am confident,
> contrary to the Russian assumption that science invalidates all
> possibilities of the existance of God, that, as specifically argued, my
> following declaration constitutes a scientifically meticulous,
> direct-experience-based proof of God.".
>
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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:37:36 -0800
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From:         Walter Alter <walter@SABER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Design Science & Deity
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P. O. Box 2321 wrote:

> Buckminster Fuller believed in a deity.  His proof of this deity included
> the order of Universe, which he (Bucky) provided a means to measure in
> synergetics and (perhaps) his experience on the waterfront as a young man.

For sure the hypothesized diety is not a friendly guru who likes kidz.
5 near extinction events (discovered so far) would indicate that the
diety is a bit ham handed or short on pain neurons.  In any event,
we're here and it's pretty dang cool if you ask me.  Were I to design
a universe, it would certainly be more demented than this one.  Until
we understand the sub-conscious mind, we don't understand diddly.


Walter
http://www.saber.net/~walter
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Date:         Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:44:34 -0600
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Date:         Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:10:43 -0800
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From:         "GENI (Peter Meisen)" <geni@CERF.NET>
Subject:      Bucky Fuller Memorial Lecture, by Peter Meisen
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The Buckminster Fuller Annual Memorial Lecture - 1997
United States International University

presentation by

Peter Meisen
President
Global Energy Network International


(Introduction: I found many of Bucky's writings to be pivotal in my
education . So I decided to piece together those words that have had an
tremendous impact on my life -- and read them for you -- as if Bucky were
here.  I think you will forever see the world in a whole new way.))

Specialist verses Comprehensivist
I thought her essay, "Women in the Nineteenth Century," was so important
that I published it in my book, Ideas and Tensegrities.  When I heard that
Aunt Margaret said, "I must start with the universe and work down to the
parts, I must have an understanding of it," that became a great drive for
me.   I saw that in my education I was being pushed to be a specialist -
everybody is being pushed to specialize, to where they can't be synergetic
and can only know about the parts instead of the whole - I switched very
vigorously; very deliberately, I became a comprehensivist.

Global Thinking and Planning
I was then sent to the United Stated Navy Academy.  Then I became involved
in the great transport operations that moved millions of people and
supplies across the oceans of the world.  This got me to thinking very big.
I found the Navy was thinking in terms of the total world, of global
planning, and that was an extraordinary experience for me.

Food for Humanity
When I came out of the Navy I went into Armour and Co.'s great packing
house.  They made me assistant export manager.  I began thinking about the
total foods of humanity around the world.   You see how by this
comprehensive anticipatory way of looking at things and thinking about the
total needs of total man, I came a few years later to invent the words,
"Spaceship Earth".  Because I began to think about the total planet as
being as beautifully designed and equipped as a ship.

Think for Yourself
Anne came from a large family; she was the oldest of ten children.  Her
father, James Monroe Hewlett, was a prominent architect and he introduced
me to the world of architecture.  For the first time I met people who were
building on the land.  And for the first time there was a father again, who
said to me, "Don't pay attention to what people say.  What you think is the
most important thing.  Pay attention to your own thoughts."

Commit to Humanity
I had good cause with our first child to feel that children are endowed
with a great deal more than many of us know, that every child may be born a
genius but may simply be degeniused at an early age because parents and
environment lack the ability to recognize these faculties.  I said, "I'm
really going to give the rest of my life to the new young life."  I
pledged, both to the daughter who died and to the daughter now born, that I
was committing myself to humanity.

Individual Initiative
I said, "What can a little man effect toward such realizations in the face
of the formidable power of great corporations, great states, and all their
know-how, guns, monies, armies, tools and information?"  Then,
self-answering: "The individual can take initiatives without anybody's
permission."  Only individuals can think, and can look for the principles
manifest in their experiences that others may be overlooking because they
are too preoccupied with how to please some boss or with how to earn money,
how to take care of today's bills.   Only the individual disregards his
fears and commits himself exclusively to reforming the human environment by
developing tools that deal more effectively and economically with
evolutionary challenges.   Humans can participate -consciously and
competently - in fundamental ways, to changes that are more favorable to
human life. It became evident that the individual was the only one that
could deliberately find the time to think in a cosmically adequate manner.

Fifty Year Experiment
This was to be a fifty year experiment  to prove that man, like nature, was
not a failure but a success; to rethink everything I knew.  It was an
experiment in which I myself was the guinea pig.  I had to begin from the
beginning.  I had to find out what man has and see how it can be used for
the advantage of others.  I became convinced that we're here for each
other.  Once I'd committed myself to that kind of program I had to expand
what I'd already learned by a great deal, and unlearn a great deal that I
had been taught was so that I'd found out was not so.  And that was the
most difficult discipline I took on.   I scarcely spoke at all for two
years.  I couldn't be completely free of words, but my wife had to talk to
people for me.  I didn't want to say anything, make any sounds, until I was
pretty sure what those sounds meant and why I wanted to use them.  I had to
make a complete disconnect in order to start my own thinking.

Reform Environment
I said, "How do we find out how to use our minds and experience to the
highest advantage of others in the shortest possible time?"  That was the
challenge.  Out of this then, in due course, came a great many designs,
because I said to myself,  "I must commit myself to reforming the
environment  and not man; being absolutely confident that if you give man
the right environment, he will behave favorably."   By employing the kinds
of capabilities used in building a battleship, you do more with less.  I'm
convinced that by more with lessing we could take care of everybody and
there need not be any suffering around the world.

Man An Extraordinary Success
I decided man was operating on a fundamental fallacy: that man was supposed
to be a failure and therefore had to prove his right to live. Each man then
said, "I must show I can earn my living, and let other people go die."  I
decided the fallacy was that man was, in fact, designed to be an
extraordinary success.   His characteristics were just magnificent; what
was needed was to discover the comprehensive patterns operating in the
universe.  The universe is a success. How could metaphysical man, using his
mind, master the physical?  Clearly, the possibility of a good life for any
man depends upon the possibility of realizing it for all men  I must be
able to convert the resources of the earth, doing more with less, until I
reach a point where we can do so much as to be able to service all men in
respect to all their needs.

World Game
I review planetary resources in terms of today's gained know-how, to see
whether there's any way we might be able to do much more with much less, to
be able to take care of everybody.  All political systems and wars based on
scarcity would become obsolete.  World Gaming is played, not like checkers
against an enemy but against ignorance, inertia, and fear.  The World Game
proves that John Von Neumann's theory of war gaming, which holds that one
side or the other must ultimately die, either by war or starvation, is
invalid and offers a heretofore unconsidered alternative way to play the
war game in which, as in mountain climbing, the object is to find all the
moves by which the whole
field of climbers would win as each helped the other so that everyone
reached the mountaintop successfully.  I think of my World Game as a way to
bypass politics, human ignorance, prejudice, and war and put the facts
before man and the whole world to try to deal with them coherently.  We
have never so far made the attempt to take our collective destiny into our
own hands, and shape it.

Malthus is Wrong
It could be, I thought to myself, that Malthus is really not pertinent
today because he didn't know, for instance, that we were going to have
refrigeration.  I said, "What else did Malthus leave out?"  I began to
inventory the many discoveries that were not available to him in 1810:
there was no modern technology at all; no refrigeration; no production
steel; no electromagnetics.  He left out doing more with less.  In 1917 I
began to realize we actually had the possibility of doing so much with so
little and might be able to take care of all humanity at the highest
standard of living anyone has ever experienced, and to do it by 1985.  And
if we did that, the whole raison d'etre of war would disappear

Be a Trimtab
I would never try to reform man  - that's much too difficult.  What I would
do was to try to modify the environment in such a way as to get man moving
in preferred directions.  It's like the principle of a ship's rudder, which
is something I thought a lot about as a boy here on Bear Island.  The
interesting thing about a rudder is that the ship has already gone by, all
but the stern; and you throw the rudder over, and what you're really doing
is making a little longer distance for the water to go round.  In other
words, you're putting a low pressure on the other side, and the low
pressure pulls the whole stern over and she takes a new direction.   The
same in an airplane - you have this great big rudder up there, with a
little tiny trim tab on the trailing edge; and by moving that little trim
tab to one side or the other, you throw a low pressure that moves  the
whole airplane.  And so I said to myself, "I'm just an individual, I don't
have any capital to start things with, but I can learn how to throw those
low pressures to one side or the other, and this should make things go in
preferred directions, and, while I can't reform man, I just may be able to
improve his environment a little.  But in order to build up those low
pressures I'm going to have to really know the truth."  The child is really
the trim tab of the future.

150 Admirals
I do know that technologically humanity now has the opportunity, for the
first time in it's history, to operate our planet in such a manner as to
support and accommodate all humanity at a substantially more advanced
standard of living than any humans have ever experienced.  This is possible
not because we have found more physical resources.  We have always had
enough resources.  What has happened that now makes the difference is that
we have vastly increased our know-how of specialized innovations, all of
which invisible realization integrates to make possible success for all.  I
also know that this can be realized only by a technological revolution
involving total Spaceship Earth, using all the resources and know-how as an
integrated regenerative system, as in the design of any successful seagoing
ship or any biological organism.
Spaceship Earth now has 150 admirals.  The five admirals in the staterooms
immediately above the ship's fuel tanks claim that they own the oil.  The
admirals with staterooms surrounding the ship's kitchen, dining rooms, and
food refrigerators claim they own all the food.  Those with a stateroom
next to a lifeboat claim that they own the lifeboat, and so forth.  They
then have an onboard game called balance of trade.  Very shortly the
majority of admirals have a deficit balance.  All the while the
starboard-side admirals are secretly planning to list the boat to port far
enough to drown the portside admirals, while the portside admirals are
secretly trying to list the boat to starboard far enough to drown the
starboard-side  admirals.  Nobody is paying attention to operating the ship
or steering it to some port.  They run out of food and fuel.  They discover
that they can no longer reach a port of supply.

Energy Grid
Thinking about humanity on board our planet, the Spaceship Earth, and
playing the World Game, I became fascinated by the question, "How do we get
energy from here to there to help each other?"  If you look at the world
map, you could see, not only crossing time zones and reaching Alaska, where
the Russians are putting up dams, hydroelectric dams, in all their
northerly flowing waters - all the way over there!  I suddenly found I
could reach the Russian network -1,500 miles. Boy! This would mean
something because of all that standby power - that is, at off-peak times
when 50 percent of the generating capacity is not being used.  I found then
that by integrating these networks to produce a global energy grid, we
could integrate night and day and double  the generating capacity operative
around the world - immediately.

Why Utilities Link
The best customers that power companies have are industries.  And they
discovered that to hold their industrial customers, public utilities had to
anticipate increased uses, for if the industrial customers turned on the
juice and didn't get it from the public utility, they'd go and put in their
own energy production plants.  So the utility company had to study the
needs of their customers, and they have the most incredibly accurate charts
of when the peak loads come in every day of the year, every minute of the
day.  The utilities have standby power for peak hours.  This excess power
is always being generated at a loss - a complete loss.  But the company
discovered that if it hooked up its wires with the next town's, where the
peak loads occur at just a little different time of day or night, what had
been a complete loss could go over there and become a profit.  With
interlinked networks, the loss could be turned to a profit.  But within 350
miles, the company couldn't cross time zones.  When it reached 1,500 miles,
it suddenly was able to go right across the time zone to a different peak
time; which meant of course, that there was a much better chance of selling
that standby power.

Trudeau and USSR
In early years of Trudeau's premiership of Canada, when he was about to
make his first visit to Russia, I gave him my world energy network grid
plan, which he presented to Brezhnev, who turned it over to his experts.
On his return to Canada Trudeau reported to me that the experts had come
back to Brezhnev with: "feasible...desirable"  I therefore predict that
before the end of the 1980s the computer's politically unbiased
problem-solving prestige will have brought about the world's completely
integrated electrical - energy network grid.  This world electric grid,
with it's omni-integrated advantage, will deliver its electric energy
anywhere, to anyone, at any time, at one common rate.  This will make
possible a world-around uniform costing and pricing system for all goods
and services based realistically on the time-energy metabolic accounting
system of Universe.

Kilowatt Hours
When Buckminster Fuller was asked by a 12 year old boy, "How do you suggest
solving international problems without violence?"  he answered:
"I always try to solve problems by some artifact, some tool or invention
that makes what people are doing obsolete, so that it makes this particular
kind of problem no longer relevant.  My answer would be to develop a world
energy grid, an electric energy grid where everybody is on the same grid.
All of a sudden there would be no problems anymore, no international
troubles.  Our new economic basis wouldn't be gold or dollars; it would be
kilowatt hours."

Blood Clots
The world energy network grid will be responsible for the swift
disappearance of planet Earth's 150 different nationalities.  We now have
150 supreme admirals, all trying to command the same ship to go in
different directions, with the result that the ship is going around in
circles - getting nowhere.  The 150 nations act as 150 blood clots in
blocking the flow of recirculating metals and other traffic essential to
realization of the design science revolution.

World's Highest Priority
Electrical-energy integration of the night and day regions of the Earth
will bring all the capacity into use at all times, thus overnight doubling
the generating capacity of humanity because it will integrate all the most
extreme night and day peaks and valleys.  From the Bering Straits, Europe
and Africa will be integrated westwardly through the U.S.S.R., and China,
Southeast Asia; India will become network-integrated southwardly through
the U.S.S.R. Central and South America will be integrated southwardly
through Canada, the U.S.A., and Mexico.
Graphs of each of the world's 150 nations showing their twentieth-century
histories of inanimate energy production per capita of their respective
populations together with graphs of those countries' birthrates show
without exception that the birthrates decrease at exactly the same rate
that the per capita consumption of inanimate electrical energy increases.
The world's population will stop increasing when and if the integrated
world electrical energy grid is realized.  This grid is the World Game's
highest priority objective.

Not "You or Me"
In 1970 it could, for the first time, be engineeringly demonstrated that,
applying the most advances know-how to the conservation and use of the
world's resources, we can, within ten years of from-killingry-to-livingry
reoriented world production, have all humanity enjoying a sustainably
higher standard of living that any humans have ever heretofore experienced.
It could further be demonstrated that we can do this while simultaneously
phasing out all further Earthians' use of fossil fuels and atomic energy.
Humanity is so specialized and these epochally significant technological
facts are so invisible that it seems an almost hopeless matter to
adequately inform humanity that from now on, for the first time in history,
it does not have to be "you or  me "-t here is now enough for "both"- and
to convince humanity of this fact in time to permit it to exercise its
option and save itself.

Integrity of Everyone
Now we've reached the point of discovering that muscle is nothing, mind is
everything.  Evolution is integrating us  and we're no longer so remote
from each other.  Clearly we are here to use our minds, to be information
gatherers in the local universe, problem solvers in relation to the
maintenance of the integrity of the eternally regenerative universe. Muscle
is nothing; mind is everything.  But muscle is still in control of human
affairs. In about ten years, if we come out with muscle in control, we will
have chosen oblivion;  if we come out with mind in control, it's going to
be utopia and eternity.  Yes, we do have the option to make it, but it's
absolutely touch and go, a matter of the integrity of every human being
from now on.

What Can I Do?
Each year I receive and answer many hundreds of unsolicited letters from
youth anxious to know what the little individual can do.  One such letter
from a young man named Michael - who is ten years old - asks whether I am a
"doer or a thinker."

The things to do are: the things that need doing: that you  see need to be
done, and that no one else seems to see needs to be done.  Then you will
conceive your own way of doing that which needs to be done - that no one
else has told you to do or how to do it.  This will bring out the real you
that often gets buried inside a character that has acquired a superficial
array of behaviors induced or imposed by others.

You have what is most important in life-initiative.  Because of it, you
wrote to me.  I am answering to the best of my capability.  You will find
the world responding to your earnest initiative.

Sources:
"Fuller's Earth", Richard Brenneman
"Buckminster Fuller: An Autobiographical Monologue Scenario", Robert Snyder
"Critical Path", Fuller and Kuromiya
_______________________________

Peter Meisen is a San Diego native, Mr. Meisen founded Global Energy
Network International (GENI) to investigate Buckminster Fuller's premier
global strategy -- the electrical interconnection of renewable energy
resources around the world.  This solution has been called one of the most
thoughtful strategies in solving many of the world's problems.


                    GLOBAL ENERGY NETWORK INTERNATIONAL
                               Peter Meisen
                               P.O.Box 81565
                            San Diego, CA 92138

                              (619) 595-0139
                            FAX: (619) 595-0403

        Visit the GENI World Wide Web Home Page:  http://www.geni.org/
                   Email: Internet:        geni@cerf.net
                          Compuserve:    75543.520@compuserve.com

GENI is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation conducting education and
research into the interconnection of renewable energy resources around the
world.  This was proposed as the highest priority objective from the World
Game of 20th century visionary, Dr. R Buckminster Fuller.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:20:38 -0700
Reply-To:     dbuck44@silcon.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dave Buck <dbuck44@SILCON.COM>
Organization: Wealth Information Network (WIN)
Subject:      Re: BFI moving to Mexico City?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Kirby Urner wrote:
>
> BFI is moving to Mexico City?  Or was it Omaha?  So hard to
> sort fact from fiction on the BFI front these days.
>
> The rumors fly, thick and fast.  Russ tells me staff is gone,
> heard that from Bonnie.  Jay confirms:  BFI is moving.  But
> where?  "Going virtual" is the rumor -- which would suggest a
> merger with Joe Moore's BFVI.  That makes a lot of sense, as
> Joe's "virtual institute" has done a lot more to index
> Fuller's writings, gratis, than anyone employed by the BFI,
> if memory serves.
>
> I keep checking the website (www.bfi.org) but obviously that
> was scrapped almost a year ago -- and no one has the authority
> to delete what is now mostly misleading misinformation. Maybe
> the disk janitors at the Critical Path Project (Kiyoshi & Co.)
> will show mercy and haul this dead horse off for rendering.
> Certainly BFI earns no new donors, and probably loses old
> ones, by leaving a vacated, decaying carcass on the web
> (not very ecological).
>
> Another rumor is BFI now plans to digitize all the relevant
> archives, the books as well, and dump these assets in the public
> domain ASAP.  If that's the case, then maybe I'll put 'Critical
> Path' and 'Grunch of Giants' on the web tonight (I use scanned
> copies for personal use -- helps with keyword lookup when I
> want the right quotes 'n stuff).  No need to wait for the
> BFI on this one -- save 'em some time and effort (the archives
> itself is a big enough job and last I knew only one scanner had
> been procured, well over a year ago -- don't know if it ever
> got used for much).
>
> Is the Alameda Padre Serra site already padlocked, spider webs
> growing, or have the U-Hauls yet to show?  Anyone out there
> live in Santa Barbara?  How about calling a local TV station
> and suggest getting some historical footage, some interviews:
> "Big name charity folds tent"; "Think tank of tomorrow moves
> to astral plane" -- something punchy, maybe with a new age
> spin (like what we'd expect from California).
>
> This retreat into rumors and hearsay in place of direct
> communications on the part of top management has all the
> hallmarks of a secretive cult taking form.  Reminds me of
> that Scientology ship that still keeps to itself off-shore,
> out of range, fielding away-teams now and then to keep
> Church members apprised of the latest hard core dogmas
> (Hubbard may be long gone, but the bank accounts are
> certainly real enough to keep the wheels of belief
> turning). Perhaps BFI is merging with the Church of
> Scientology?  I must say I like that BFVI scenario
> better (do we get to vote?).
>
> Stay tuned.  I'm sure we'll be hearing more soon from
> more officially authorized sources (obviously I'm not one
> of them).
>
> Kirby
> exBFI webmaster
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
> 4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
> ---------------------------------------------------------

(Kirby, apologies for not first communicating with you directly, will do
so soon.)

Spoke with Allegra this morning, at the institute.  They are still
answering the phone.  Did not ask her if they are moving or what their
plans are, those issues are just not very important to me, clearly
understand that they are important to others and that should be
respected.

Personally feel that Bucky left us with some of the most important
thinking in our age and with a mandate to use the resulting information
together with the technology and resources that are abundantly
available, to really “get it right.”

In my relationship with BFI I have experienced sincere, decent, good
people doing the best they know how to do.  Would too like to see some
different results and feel that Bucky would encourage each of us to do
something helpful and constructive if we see a need, optimizing our
talents, abilities, and experience.

If you have concerns about the institute, call them and ask questions,
find out the truth from them.  In my experience, they are very
accessible and eager to embrace those who share Bucky's vision of a
world that works for 100% of humanity.

Kirby did a magnificent job in developing the BFI website and appears
truly committed to using his talents and abilities to help achieve
Bucky's vision.  It is unfortunate that something came between him and
BFI.  My hope is that healing can take place and we can all work
effectively together.

Dave Buck

**********************************************************************
One WILL see the forest if one backs up far enough, if one looks in the
right direction, and if one can see.
**********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:54:22 -0500
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         2sut@5WPXNE.NET
Subject:      about filedudes
Comments: To: geodesic@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

hey, found this real fast download site www.filedudes.com,
check it out!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:15:48 -0800
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      FS: Buckminster Fuller Books
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

My trade is used and rare children's books, but my personal collection
includes much by and about R. Buckminster Fuller.  As I buy Fuller titles,
I 'trade up' my collection; I replace a later edition with a first
edition, or a non-signed copy with a signed copy.  My collection slowly
improves and duplicates go up for sale.  I foresee this as an ongoing
process which will in time include some special, even one-of-a-kind
artifacts (researching a title or two right now); if you are a Bucky
reader or collector and would like to be notified when I have books for
sale, drop me a line and I'll add you to my list.  And if you have Bucky
books for sale (particularly first editions, signed copies and the like)
let me know!=20

[#2386] [Fuller, R. Buckminster] Richard J. Brenneman: FULLER'S EARTH / A
DAY WITH BUCKY AND THE KIDS. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1984. 1st ed.
Cloth, 12mo, 180 pp. (Photographic illust.) Ex-Libris: library marks, else
Very Good. Bucky demonstrates synergetics can be understood by children -
much more accessible than any other of his books. OP.  $32.50

[#2065] Fuller, R. Buckminster: I SEEM TO BE A VERB. London: Bantam Books,
Inc., 1970. Wraps, 16mo, (Agel, J. and Q. Fiore illust.)  Very Good. Out
of print, paperback-only, increasingly scarce McLuhanesque treatment of
Bucky. White cover. $35.00

[#2435] Fuller, R. Buckminster: I SEEM TO BE A VERB. London: Bantam Books,
Inc., 1970. Wraps, 16mo, (Agel, J. and Q. Fiore illust.) Very Good. Out of
print, paperback-only, increasingly scarce McLuhanesque treatment of
Bucky. Silver cover. $35.00
________________________________________________________________________
 =A9 1998 Trevor Blake

J. Whirler Used & Rare Children's Books
P. O. Box 2321, Portland OR 97208-2321 USA
telephone: 503-236-2364 / e-mail: box2321@teleport.com
World Wide Web: http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/jw.htm

Terms of Sale:
- $4.00 postage first book, $1.00 each additional in North America.
- Outside of North America, shipping billed (please inquire, specifying
that the books will be shipped outside of North America).
- Reciprocal dealer discount up to 20%, libraries accommodated.
- Checks in United States currency to "Trevor Blake" only, please.
- No credit cards accepted.
- Two week hold with order.
- See URL above for full terms of sale, returns, etc.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:13:16 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Organization: 4D Solutions
Subject:      Re: FS: Buckminster Fuller Books
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Plus the BFI web has put 'Critical Path' and 'Grunch of Giants'
in the public domain -- or is working to do so, pending mastery
of FTP logistics (as exBFIer, I'm responding to a request from
the Estate (Allegra in this case) that BFI be empowered to
share these masterworks (hence the appearance of the two titles
at my FTP site as per my filing in Synergetics-L earlier this AM)).

Kirby

---------------------------------------------------------
Kirby T. Urner  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html
4D Solutions    http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/  [PGP OK]
---------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:21:55 PST
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: BFI
Content-Type: text/plain

to whom it may concern:

the fuller institue can think of putting the archieves on the
net in small chunks.

why do you think it is important to do that?
we already have enough information about Fuller anyway.

 tagdi



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:42:02 PST
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         mohamed aagdii <aagdii@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: BFI
Content-Type: text/plain

Fuller electric curve is important to checking if humanity has
reached well being or some measure of success.

it seem to me that the late asian crisis indicate that his
focasting of the progression of the curve was not accurate.
it seem that it should have in theory curved toward year
2000- optimism of post war may had led him to such forcast-
but in fact is not progressing much.

i am looking at the chart while i am writing this message. if you
have a copy please check the striking difference between
North America and Asia slaves per humans. 347 slave for each human
living in N.America and only 27 slves for any living in Asia.

there is more to know about this, anyone  see somthing here?
i also think it is of the highest importance to put the
chart on the net.

----
latest number i know of is that a chiness makes 30 dollars
a month, and that is only for the highest 10% of the population.


 tagdi
p.s
the mexico metaphore seem appropriate since the electric curve
is moving there. and it is time for the people on this newsgroup
to get out of the fear fixation.



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 29 Mar 1998 11:38:29 GMT
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Filip De Vos <fidevos@EDUSERV1.RUG.AC.BE>
Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium
Subject:      Re: CEREAL AND GRAIN

Walter Alter (walter@SABER.NET) wrote:
: Equally interesting, at least from an American standpoint is that
: 90% of all U.S. grain is warehoused and shipped by 5 companies
: all of which are European owned- Cargill, Bunge, Continental,

The Bunge clan is from the Argentine (though originally immigrants from
Europe it is true).

: Dreyfus and Nestle.  Can you spell cartel?

: Walter


--
      Filip De Vos                        FilipPC.DeVos@rug.ac.be

          There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
                       --   John S. Lewis   --
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:01:56 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Lakandula@EARN_MONEY.COM
Organization: Your Organization
Subject:      Giving away Money and More!!!

****************************************************************
*    This Article was Posted By an unregistered version of:    *
*                    Newsgroup AutoPoster 95                   *
*       Send email address for info! Fax: +46-31-470588        *
****************************************************************

Nothing to loose!! Registration is free...Just  register, refer  and  wait for
the money to roll on your account...Guarranteed..
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Gold/3928/register.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:45:27 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         asaj@CASHFORYOU.COM
Organization: Your Organization
Subject:      Earn Income the easy way !!!

****************************************************************
*    This Article was Posted By an unregistered version of:    *
*                    Newsgroup AutoPoster 95                   *
*       Send email address for info! Fax: +46-31-470588        *
****************************************************************

IT WORKS!  Hello, my name is Barry.  I'm with out a doubt one of the
most
skeptical people you could imagine... especially when it comes to
anything
claiming,  "you can make money fast".   A couple of days ago I was
talking
to a friend of mine.  He told me he followed the steps in the letter
below
just one week earlier and has already received over $800.00 dollars.  He
also remarked that a friend of his has received over  $8,000 in just
three
weeks.  That's when I decided it was worth risking $7.00 to realize
similar
results.  Just read the following letter... you won't regret it.   Even
if
you're not convinced and want to think about it or want to check out the
legality (I did), copy this text and paste it into your word processing
program so you can find it later.  If you're concerned about the
legality,
the law # and a government phone number are listed in the letter below.
So
give it a try.  You've got nothing to lose...Good luck!
Barry
Here is what one successful participant has to say:
THIS MAY BE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT LETTER YOU RECEIVE THIS YEAR!
WOULD YOU LIKE TO START 1998 OFF WITH A BANG?
Greetings!
Hopefully my name is still on the list below. I am a retired attorney
and
about two years ago a man came to me with a letter. The letter he
brought
me
is the same as the letter in front of you now. He asked me to verify the
fact that this letter was legal. I told him that I would review it and
get
back to him. When I first read the letter I thought it was some
off-the-wall
idea to make money. A week later I met again with my client to discuss
the
issue. I told him that the letter originally brought to me was not
100%legal. My client asked me to alter the letter to make it 100% legal.
I
advised him to make a small change in the letter and it would be all
right.
I was curious about the letter so he told me how it works. I thought it
was
a long shot, so I decided against participating. Before my client left,
I
asked him to keep me updated as to his results.
I couldn't believe it, about two months later he called to tell me that
he
had received over $800,000 in cash! I didn't believe him so he asked me
to
try the plan myself. I thought about it for a few days and decided there
was
not much to lose. I followed the instructions exactly and mailed out 200
letters (via snail mail of all things!). Sure enough the money started
coming in! It came slowly at first but after three weeks I was getting
more
than I could open in a day. After about three months the money stopped
coming. I kept a precise record of my earnings and at the end it totaled
$868,439.00. I was earning a good living as a lawyer, but as anyone in
the
profession will tell you, there is a lot of stress that comes with the
job.
I told myself if things worked out I would retire from practice and play
golf. I decided to try the letter again but this time I sent 500 letters
out. Well, three months later I had totaled $2,344,178.00!I just
couldn't
believe it. I met my old client for lunch to find out exactly how this
works. He told me that there were a few similar letters going around and
what made this one different is that there are seven names on the letter
not
five like most others. That fact alone resulted in more returns. The
other
factor was the advice I gave him in making sure the whole thing was
perfectly legal, since no one wants to risk doing anything illegal.
I bet now you are curious what little changes I told him to make. Well,
if
you send a letter like this one out, to be legal, you must sell
something
if
you expect to receive a dollar. I told him that anyone sending a dollar
out
must receive something in return. What we did to make it legal was make
it
work out so people sending you $1 we're
actually asking you to put them on your mailing list.  So when you send
a
dollar to each one of the seven names on the list, you must include a
slip
of paper saying "please put me on your mailing list, $1 processing fee
enclosed" and include your name, address (your phone number is
optional).
(I
actually like an occasional e-mail address too...it's
exciting to chat with other people who are making such simple money!
But
of
course, that's up to you!) This is the key to the program! The item you
will
receive for the dollar you send is the letter, your name on the "mailing
list" and the right to earn thousands! Follow the simple instructions
below.
In less than three months you could receive over $800,000.00.
Follow steps A   D below to make this work for you.
A) Immediately send one dollar to each of the seven people listed below.
Wrap the dollar in a piece of paper saying "please add me to your
mailing
list, $1 processing fee enclosed" and include your name and mailing
address.
Your phone number and/or e-mail address is optional. (I also like to add
what number the person is on the list so they can figure out how much
more
they can expect to receive)
B) Take the person in the #1 position off the list, bump the rest of the
names up a position, and then add your name and address to slot #7. (Be
sure
to proofread so no one else gets your mail!)
C) Post this new letter, with your name and address and post it to at
least
200 newsgroups. There are currently over 22,000 newsgroups with
thousands
of
new subscribers every day.  There's no need to worry about overlapping
with
someone else.  Another option would be to rent names and addresses from
a
list company...but in my opinion, posting to newsgroups reaches more
people,
is faster, and saves you the money you would have to spend on bulk
postage!
(both ways are 100% legal)
D) Sit back and wait for the envelopes to roll in!
So...here's the list:
****IMPORTANT**** You must send one dollar to the people listed or this
program will not work properly. It's a very small risk. A very small
expense, with HUGE potential returns!
1. STEVE BROWN, 6023 HALIFAX DR., NEW PORT RICHEY, FL 34653
2. KRISTIE & BILLY QUINN, 407 HWY 48 WEST, TYLERTOWN, MS 39667
3. HENRIETTA BURNS, 654 AVE. G, WESTWEGO, LA 70094
4. LANCE TRAHAN, 309 CIRCLE WEST DR., WESTWEGO, LA 70094
5. PAULO MARTINS, N:7 PRACETA PROGRESSO CLUBE 2725 MEM MARTINS PORTUGAL
6. M. Richardson, 234 E. 15th. St., Tempe AZ 85281
7. A. Sajorda, C16-01 Palm Court Condominium, Jalan Berhala, Brickfields 50470
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

To post this out over the internet you could browse through areas and
find
the newsgroups that you like, all you have to do is cut and paste this
letter wherever you are on the internet. Remember it doesn't cost
anything
to post on the Internet. Send out a lot, it's inexpensive.
***Keep in mind there is no limit to the amount of letters you could
post.
The more letters you post the more money you make. We strongly encourage
you
to post to as many newsgroups as you can. ***
THIS IS A SERVICE AND IS 100% LEGAL
(Refer to title 18, section 1302 &1342 of the U.S. Postal and Lottery
Laws
or call the U.S. Post Office at
1-800-725-2161)
HOW DOES IT WORK? CAN I REALLY MAKE MUCH MONEY?
Assume for example you get a 7.5% return rate, which is very
conservative.
(My first attempt was over 9.5% and my second was over 11%.)
1) When you post 200 letters 15 people will send you $1.00
2) Those 15 people post 200 letters and 225 people send you $1.00
3) Those 225 people post 200 letters and 3,375 people send you $1.00
4) Those 3,375 people post 200 letters and 50,625 people send you $1.00
5) Those 50,625 people post 200 letters and 759,375 people send you
$1.00
6) Those 759,375 people post 200 letters and 11,390,625 people send you
$1.00
At this point your name drops off the list. Think about it. With only
the
first six levels you have received over $813,615.00!
It works every time, but how well depends on how many letters you post.
In
the example above you posted 200 letters, if you posted 500 letters you
would have received over $2,006,917.00. Check the math yourself, I want
you
to, but I guarantee it's correct! With this kind of return, you've got
to
try it. Try it once and you will do it again, GUARANTEED!
So...are you still skeptical? If you are...at least do yourself a favor
and
print or save a copy of this letter right now and think about it...that
way,
when you realize that's there's no way that you can get scammed from
this...you can just go back to it...add your address, send your $1 to
the 7
people listed, post your letter to some newsgroups, and then wait for
the
dirty looks from the postal worker when he/she has to stuff your mailbox
full of envelopes day after day!
P.S. You've read this far so let me ask you a question.
Q:  What have you got to lose?
A:  Only 7 dollars.
What you can gain is an income, like the example in the letter. Very
small
risk. Very small expense, HUGE potential returns! What do you have to
lose?
WISHING YOU A HAPPY SUCCESS AND HAVE A GREAT 1998 $$$$$$$$$$
PPS We have a 95% return at this point! ! !
~~~~~~~~~
HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS FAST WITH YOUR WEB BROWSER:
The fastest way to post a newsletter:
Highlight and COPY (Ctrl-C) the text of this posted message and PASTE
(Ctrl-V) it into a plain text editor (as Wordpad) and save it. After you
have made the necessary changes that are stated above, simply COPY
(Ctrl-C)
and PASTE (Ctrl-V) the text into the message composition window, after
selecting a newsgroup, and post it! (Or you can attach the file, without
writing anything to the message window.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have Netscape Navigator 3.0 do the following:
1. Click on any newsgroup like normal, then click on 'TO NEWS'. This
will
bring up a box to type a message in.
2. Leave the newsgroup box like it is, change the subject box to
something
flashy, something to catch the eye, as "$$$ NEED CASH$$$?!!READ
HERE!$!$!$"
or "$$$!!!MAKE FAST CASH, YOU CAN'T LOSE!!!$$$". Or you can use my
subject
title.
3. Now click on 'ATTACHMENTS'. Then click on 'ATTACH FILE'. Find your
file
on your Hard Disk (the one you saved from the text editor). Once you
find
it, click on it and then click 'OPEN' and 'OK'. You should now see your
file
name in the attachment box.
4. Now click on 'SEND'/'POST'. You see? Now you just have 199 to go!!!
(You
can post to multiple newsgroups with a single posting, however, use
netiquette and only post to 10-20 at a time...no one wants to scroll
through a long list of additional newsgroups before they can read your
message!)(Don't worry, it's easy and quick once you get used to it.)
NOTE: All the versions of Netscape Navigator's are similar to each
other,
so
you'll have no problem doing this if you don't have Netscape Navigator
3.0.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(FOR A QUICK TIP)!
Netscape Navigator 3.x and above)
You can post this message to many newsgroups at a time, by simply
selecting
a newsgroup near the top of the screen, hold down the SHIFT, and then
select
a newsgroup near the bottom of the screen. All of the newsgroups
in/between
will be selected. After that, you follow/do the basic steps, stated
below
in
this letter, except step #1. You can go to the page stated below in this
letter and click on a newsgroup to open up the newsgroups window. Once
you've done this, in the same window go to 'OPTIONS', and then mark
'SHOW
ALL NEWSGROUPS' and 'SHOW ALL MESSAGES'.  Now you can see all the
newsgroups
and you can apply easier the above tip.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have MS Internet Explorer do the following:
1. Go to the newsgroups and press 'POST AN ARTICLE'. To the new window
type
your headline in the subject area and then click in the large window
below.
There either PASTE your letter (which it's been copied from the text
editor), or attach the file which contains it.
2. Then click on 'SEND' or 'OK'.  NOTE: All versions of MS Internet
Explorer
are similar to each other, so
you won't have any problem doing this.
GENERAL NOTES ON POSTING: A nice page where you'll find all the
newsgroups
if you want help is http://www.liszt.com/ (When you go to the home page,
click on the link 'Newsgroup Directory'). But I don't think
you'll have any problem posting because it's very easy once you've found
the
newsgroups. All these web browsers are similar. It doesn't matter which
one
you have. (But it makes it very easy if you have Netscape Navigator 3.0
or
later. You may download it from the Internet if you don't have it.) You
just
have to remember the basic steps, stated below.
BASIC STEPS FOR POSTING:
1. Find a newsgroup and you click on it.
2. You click on 'POST A NEW ARTICLE' or 'TO NEWS' or anything else
similar
to these.
3. You type your flashy headline in the subject box.
4. Now, either you attach the file containing your amended letter, or
you
PASTE the letter. (You have to COPY it from the text editor, of course,
from
before.)
5. Finally, you click on 'SEND' or 'POST' or 'OK', whatever is there.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
**REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL
MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**
That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within
days!
You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large amount of
mail
you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to
use,
as
long as the postman will deliver it.
**JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**
=====================================================================
So, build your mailing list, keep good accounts, declare the income and
pay
your taxes. By doing this you prove your business intentions. Keep an
eye
on
the newsgroups and when the cash has stopped coming (that
means your name is no longer on the list), you just take the latest
posting
at the newsgroups, send another $7.00.
Best of luck and God bless!

P.S.
Get a News Post programs for better result at Shareware.com