From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Oct 4 13:58:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g94HwYmd024579 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:58:34 -0400 Message-Id: <200210041758.g94HwYmd024579@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 26805 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2002 17:58:32 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (listserv@128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 4 Oct 2002 17:58:32 -0000 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:58:13 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG9811" To: Chris Fearnley Status: O Content-Length: 790727 Lines: 16117 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:53:39 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Grunch crunch! The idea of an economy is based on it's lack of mobility of the people that are using it. If you read the 200 pound millionaire as in British pounds you can see if the person in the economy is mobile the economy,tax based government doesn't have the chock hold on the constituents. Take this model for instance. IF a person has his own boat home and his own electricity from solar wind and sun tools there is no need for the extension to convince the big shots to stop being greedy and build a world electric system, or if a person lives 100 yards off the beach in Malibu in a perfectly comfortable boat that cost nothing to move around by sail, there is no gas, no taxes on land, no rent, no people to speak of to stop them form going anywhere in the world for no cost. This is the future of the world population not to change the ground based dudgeon power, greed, etc. models. A dome on a trimaran can be as large as you want and use elecric motors powered by the sun to move around if you want. As far as transportation you only need to row into the beach and get foodor fish and dive. With the new wireless TV and phone, You can have just as good a time as the person that lives at Nixon's old house on the beach. This is where my new world is going. If you look at HongKong you can see that this has been going on for ages, Thialand etc. Fuller's floating break water is the best design for this sea world, water world idea, cheap made of old tires. In California the only threat is earth Quakes and fires. Boats do not react badly with earth Quakes and can move away from fires. When Malibu gets a big fire I go out on my boat and watch the 7 mile 40 foot flames at night, what a sight. By the way the wooden boat is best and very cheap to buy anywhere in the world. A product named "GET ROT" is used to fix any rot which only happens when fresh water gets into a stagnant spot in the wood. Salt water does not cause rot only fresh water that is why no one ever cleans a wood boat with a hose. If this happens to a fiberglass boat it is like an old surf board you kite as well throw it away and you do. If you throw buckets of salt water onto wood it heals the wood like a medicine, after that you use "GET ROT" and just pour it onto the rotten wood and it turns into a sold again stronger than before. "GET ROT" is West System EPOXY thinned out with aceton purchased from West Marine a large company that is on the net. You can order 5 gallons of this for about 250 dollars and do a whole dome with it and it will never rot again and will be much more fire proofed. I hope I do not dominate the list here. I am very excited to be able to talk to people about this stuff! Plus I do not know how to post and do most the actions here for this stuff yet. Forgive me if I get out of control? What I am trying to get at is. Not in our life time is any of this going to happen as a whole system. You do not need a whole electric system for the earth, terrorists will only blow it out because of being have nots. doing away with have nots is the only way to get a whole that makes it work. The only way to aquire in our life time a model for the whole world and not just the 5% of USA to have a chance at in our life time design freedom is with a boat and this can be done anywhere in The world. Go to the sea, build a boat and take off to freedom. This is only for the whole hearted to do, but there is very much info to help. Lin and Larry Pardey have lived 11 years in a 24 foot boat and then 13 years in a 29 1/2 foot boat. this is 24 years and they have been every where in the world and they are still going. They work as they go and it cost very little to live this way. Many have done this and this is the way to the future of humanity in your life time, not pie in the sky. They do not have a motor, they put in a bath tub. I think this is the Fuller model. His model came from his navy experience. He was ahead of his time and it is possible to get to over specialized and think not in your life time models. I hope this is not to long. OUT! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 03:16:41 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: wooden airships, cement boats and Tefzel domes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: Rebound state of mind 4MICKEY Michael S Mitchell wrote: > A floating city needs steering for many reasons One way you could provide steering is with solar-thermal jets that use heat from the sun to create pockets of pressurized air, which can be released for propulsion like a child's toy balloon which rockets off when you release the valve. > Wood is the greatest Space age fiber ever invented or discovered. I would be interested in more information or references regarding the concept of wood as a space age material. The concept fits nicely with the 'Planting Trees: A Major Solution to World Problems" and the "Low-Technologies in the Space Age" pages that I'm developing. Wicker is still the preferred material for hot-air balloon baskets. I remember reading somewhere that the use of wood, bamboo and other natural materials may be more economical than high-tech materials for the construction of airships. >Cement will not float and is harder to work with than wood. Are you familiar with ferro-cement boats? From pictures I've seen, they look like a slab of concrete floating in the water. There is even a book on how to make a cement canoe. It is proposed as an alternative to wood canoes in deforested areas where there is a shortage of wood. >I think this idea of making a steal dome comes from Jay Baldwin because his >pillow domes are made of steal I believe his pillow domes are made of Teflon or Tefzel ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 17:07:35 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: wooden airships, cement boats and Tefzel domes <> Brian Hutchings 01-NOV-1998 17:07 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us he was probably referring to hte framework; the prototype at New Alchemy was wood, I think, but I don't really recall (or that was after I'd been, there). thus quoth: >I think this idea of making a steal dome comes from Jay Baldwin because his >pillow domes are made of steal I believe his pillow domes are made of Teflon or Tefzel Tefzel (tm), yes. (a flourocarbon, two .-) --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:15:17 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: MARINE INVENTIONS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Floating Energy-Generating Tetra Breakwaters: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaConcludeEnergyBreakwaterFl oat.htm Counter-Torqued Tetrahedra Anchors: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaTetAnchorCounter.htm Breakwater-Surrounded Floating Marine Dome Spheres: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaIcosDomeWater.htm Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 23:47:59 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Re: We are not so great apes. Spaceship Earth wrote in message <363ACA13.AB082A80@SpaceshipEarth.com>... >Michael S Mitchell wrote: >> >>Wood boats are best just as wood domes are best. > >What about ferro-cement domes and boats? I don't think much about wood for >housing. It catches fire easily. It's subject to termites, water damage and >rot. It isn't as strong or as durable as metal. And it's not as recyclable as > metals. Spaceship Earth is a pretty heady name to take. I would say that Spaceship Earth is basically a wood ship itself. Wood floats concrete sinks. The oldest boat found on the Nile 5 Thousand years old were not concrete. Doing more with less starts with weight ends in design no how. Domes only leak where squares are put into them for the doors and windows, or the owner is just not a very good roofer, or broke, or all of the above. For jay Baldwin to put in his book that Bucky's home in Carbondale leaks is a bit like saying my pillow dome is better. Everyone always wants to be a better than Bucky in something somehow. Wood domes are the dome of the people. You can go to home depot and for 5,000 dollars build the shell and struts just like my dome, or Bucky's home which is 39 1/2 feet. Why is it this funny number in diameter. Because you can use the 4 foot by 8 foot sheet of plywood and this is the biggest dome you can use with that common material, the next frequency jump is 55 feet and that is to much dome for one or two persons to deal with alone. IF it is to small and you have 7 children then build 3 of them. The length of the edge of the hexagon and the pentagon is the same. This is the patent lock that Bucky had that could not be beat. The hex and pent were same length. The length of the 39 1/2 foot dome is 7 feet, 11 1/2 inches. This allows the biggest dome for the 4 x 8 foot sheet. A lot of thought went into Bucky's home in Carbondale inwhich I have owned since 1972 1/2. It was the only home Bucky ever owned and the only dome he every lived in at least that I know of. Allegra would know, his wonderful daughter. If is not on a riser which makes domes fall from the lack of triangles in the bottom. I helped build a ferrocement dome on Saddle peak Drive at the top of Tuna Canyon in Topanga when I first moved to L.A. It was a metal strut 45 foot Ferro cement dome. Guess what. It burnt in the Malibu fire I have pictures of me standing in it it melted the metal frames and caught fire inside where the wooden floors were through the skin. When these 70 mile an hour winds in CA. come with fire it is a fire storm and like building for living on the sun. No house unless under ground or next to the fire station will survive. ?I don't see what is so bad about a wood dome. This only has come out since RBF dies. Why? Crazy to me! It maybe because some people think some big dome god is going to come and make perfect cheap homes for everyone. You cannot count on the economy to be honest and healthy. It is basic Malthusian and Darwinian kill or be killed. This makes wood domes more of an honest way about it. If NASA builds a dome on the moon. There is no wood there. It would have to be one of these hinged tensegrity like don moores and bucky's pop out domes, or the seed pod dome that Herb Roan had hidden in Carbondale before he died and ask me not to tell anyone about it. I told Allegra and somewhere it is in Carbondale now. Maybe you have it? Who ever you are. IT is in the Robert Marks book. Made in St. Louis University right before he built he and Anne's dome home in Carbondale. A wood dome with the new West Systems Epoxy is like a rock when it is dome. I am thinking of going back to Carbondale and West System Bucky's home. IF anyone knows West Systems maybe they would sponsor this project. Contact me. If anyone wants to help me preserve Bucky's dome in Carbondale they can help anyway they wish. If anyone knows where the seed pod dome is let me know so I can give it back to Allegra. I am not in great shape today I had three beers last night, so I may be a bit dark. sorry. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:27:55 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Re: Ideas how to guide a 10 mile floating city? Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@prodigy.net> wrote in message <71dfev$14pg$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>... >Protocall: Michael Mitchell >Say you have a ten mile sphere, of wire glass on light oil based plastic >compression, fly eye like surface, and it has solar heated, temperature >control by shuting and opening the shades to keep it's altitude. It is >going beans to breakfast around the earth in the jet stream, say' , then how >can you stear it? and how can you stop it and load it, how can you change >altitude? = a run away city! the inside is vacant, and the living area is >in the skin itself as RBF has imagined. How can you make the bottom stay at >the bottom for storage of livingry provisions for say 5,000 people to live >off of while in the air. How do you keep the airbrathable and warm enough >to stay alive that high? Etc. >4Mickey@prodigy.net Where do you get on and off it, with waste and enimas. >Would it fly higher than birds? > >Mr. Hutchings, good idea ! I think the way that you would dock it would be to drag a very large hose in the ocean and fill the bottom with water just as you have mentioned for storage, or ballast. But to bring it to it's knees and anchor it say outside New York City you would have to use large jet engines to bank it in over the Empirestate Building and as it comes in to the harbor you suck in water from the ocean and as it slows to the level you want you anchor it with large anchors or cables with large train motors to pull it stable. This is the world ballooning option that branson of Virgin Air should be trying. If it works, bingo a new transportation system for the world. I suppose helicopters would work to taxi around as it is anchored or cable elevators to boat taxi,s . I could see a bunch of these on the doldrums being moored out in the middle of the oceans for island countries. Far Out. Copy Right 1998 M.S. Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 03:29:44 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Raise the IQ of our specie This is our main purpose. Shelter is a sub-system of this purpose for health and the dome is the lightest most graceful way to do this. Domes are the monolith to show that this can be done. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 02:08:18 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Kimbra and info on this site. I think this site is a revolution, renaissance for not only housing you but for your mind. Our specie in this 2000 era has a race to not only change the housing of us but our minds to a way of viewing future time for all humans to be a success on this planet or some of the ones left out are going to stop the whole thing for all of us with the new technological killing etc. This is Halloween after all. I think this site is the only one in the world that has a chance to save the earth by heart filled info to allow the best options of the specie to occur. That is the way I think of this humble site. Bucky stated that his hope is in the youth, truth and the computer. We all have the computers here, now all we need is truth and the youth to go on to it and out to spread the design science revolution and most of all the world game. Find ways to make money for The Buckminster Fuller Institute and The World Game Institute is the real goal. Micro soft should invest all there money in them or join them or no one will be around to use computers when the gas flys. I would buy a boat and then you can get away from the gas wars. Live in L.A. The dome hippie days are over with the dope and honest politicians that are a waste of time to me now. You only have one life time to spend trying to bring the ideas of Bucky to the rest to build on. It was not him that is important, he cannot help being the first to prove Malthus wrong. He is not a god. He was not perfect, but he was the best yet, dymaxion man for world action. The PBS movie fell very short of this, and that is because you can't bring spirit into a work with a budget alone. It did put his name on the shelf, but it was a great loss that the makers were so ignorant of him. To bad. I forgive them, but I will never forget them for blowing that chance to help so many people. The map and world game was hardly mentioned. IT was like talking about Christ's feet in a documentary and not his deeds. They played up that Anne did not like sex, and left my dome out of the final cut, which I bought from him. This is a personal grief to me and an excuse to say that is why I did not like it. Many along with me thought Thinking out loud was talking out loud about what the film makers did not know anything about and lost steerage. I was crushed to see the mess they made of it. I have been trying to get Richard Dryfuss to play him in a life story, but he doesn't understand bucky either. This is the greatest role since Gandhi to play and how can you show people that Christ is here and this is as good as your going to get, for Buddha today. I hope I make sense to you. out,. Bucky was an average man, proto type planetary planner. We need to use these plans while we can. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 03:03:57 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Einstein's profecy The next war will be sticks and stones. He left out illness through anthrax and other stuff as in the PBS front line. IT is possible that life can have a synergetic turn as the shooting of JFK. Why not design for it. If you live on a boat, you have an out if it happens. It is much better even if it does not happen. I feel sorry for land lobbers. It is hard to get people to visit you when your on the land. On a boat it is hard to stop people, especially girls from coming over. History shows nothing but war and master mistakes. Most of us have at max 20 years of real life after our education. Life is short, but very wide. TO work as if bucky's ideas are industrial is a mistake. This is a craft revolution. No one is going to help anyone any more. Only what you do to yourself will make a difference. Trying to make others do something is futile. When you type on the computer it is a craft experience like whittling wood. If someone likes what you type it becomes industrial. This is very rare to happen. I think that the corruption of the USA is Rome all over again. If I were anyone now as I have mentioned on this site, the best dome home now is a boat. This makes one live when out 3 miles a citizen off the earth alone. All the people of the world will move onto boats. Leave the land alone and let it go back to its origin. Make the land a museum. I am confident that in the future this will be the model. Then all the big rip off plans that dominate society now will die. Only after this will class wars become a way of the past for the whole world. Friends and food is all one can hope for. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:15:44 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Raise the IQ of our specie MESSAGE from ="List 02-NOV-1998 0:04 This is our main purpose. Shelter is a sub-system of this purpose for health and the dome is the lightest most graceful way to do this. Domes are the monolith to show that this can be done. - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 02-NOV-1998 0:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us yeah, just don't tell Clarke; he'll Copy Wrong the idea! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:53:43 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: kdaniel Subject: Re: Kimbra and info on this site. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry Michael, but you totally lost me??? Who is Buckminister Fuller and what does he do or stand for?? Confused in Georgia, Kimbra ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:53:55 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Just call me trimtab: Buckminster Fuller Biography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This biography will soon be posted on the web. Comments and suggestions a= re invited. The sixth paragraph below contains some of the reasons why the A= nnual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity is dedicated to Buckminster Fuller. One question I have is, how many gold medals in architecture did Buckminster Fuller receive? One or more? = 'Just call me trimtab.' -- Buckminster Fuller Like the tiny trimtab that steers the great ships of the air and sea, = the action taken by the tiny, seemingly insignificant individual can = steer our great Spaceship Earth away from the dangers that lie = before us, and guide our ship on a safe and steady course to the = achievement of complete success for all humanity. = Buckminster Fuller Mini-Biography = Buckminster Fuller was a widely acclaimed individual of = diverse accomplishments. Although he is best known = for his achievements in the fields of architecture, = engineering, and mathematics, Buckminster Fuller = made enduring contributions to almost every segment = of society. Buckminster Fuller was called 'the planet's friendly = genius,' 'the Leonardo da Vinci or our age,' and 'the = Benjamin Franklin of the Space Age.' World = magazine heralded Buckminster Fuller as one of the = world's 'most trusted and loved human beings.' Buckminster Fuller was born in Milton, Massachusetts = on July 12, 1895. He married Anne Hewlett in 1917. = On July 1, 1983, Buckminster Fuller died in the = hospital, at the bedside of his beloved wife who soon = passed with him. Buckminster Fuller established a reputation as one of = the most original thinkers of the second half of the = 20th century. He was a distinguished scientist, = architect, engineer, mathematician, philosopher, poet, = educator, designer, cartographer, historian, futurist, = and economist. As a pioneer in whole systems thinking = and design, he referred to himself as a Comprehensive = Anticipatory Design Scientist. Buckminster Fuller spent a lifetime studying = socioeconomic trends. He was the first to discover, in = 1927, that humanity was approaching the ability to = achieve complete life-support abundance for all, and to = understand why humanity was gaining this ability. He = therefore showed that the Malthusian economic = doctrine of scarcity was no longer valid. He was = apparently the first to attempt to develop, on a global = basis, comprehensive, long-range technological and = economic plans designed to achieve universally = sustainable, physical success for all humanity. In 1970, = Buckminster Fuller discovered that, as a result of the = spectacular advances in science and technology = achieved by the Apollo Space Program, 'the sum total = of increases in overall technological know-how and = their comprehensive integration took humanity across = the epochal but invisible threshold into a state of = technically realizable and economically feasible = universal success for all humanity.' = Buckminster Fuller was a consultant to many = government and private agencies, and advisor to = political leaders and foreign governments. During his = distinguished lifetime, Buckminster Fuller wrote 27 = books and more than 80 major journal articles, = published numerous periodicals, and held 27 patents. Buckminster Fuller has been the subject of numerous = books and films, and thousands of articles and = interviews. Information on the internet about = Buckminster Fuller and his work is growing at a = phenomenal rate. Buckminster Fuller has inspired the = publication of many books on many subjects. In 1967, = the insights of Buckminster Fuller initiated the Whole = Earth Catalog: Access to Tools, which was the Yahoo! = before the internet, a publication which became an = 'institution' for self-education and empowerment. Buckminster Fuller was expelled from Harvard = University as both a student and teacher. Buckminster = Fuller never earned a degree, but was awarded 47 = honorary doctorate degrees. He was honored with a = countless array of awards, from the National = Secretaries Boss of the Year award, to the Medal of = Freedom, the highest honor awarded to U.S. citizen. = Buckminster Fuller's Medal of Freedom citation, = received from President Reagan in 1983, reads as = follows: 'A true renaissance man, and one of the = greatest minds of our times, Richard Buckminster = Fuller's contribution as a geometrician, educator, and = architect-designer are benchmarks of accomplishment = in their fields. Among his most notable inventions and = discoveries are synergetic geometry, geodesic = structures, and tensegrity structures. Mr. Fuller = reminds us all that America is a land of pioneers, haven = for innovation and the free expression of ideas.' Buckminster Fuller was a world renowned innovator in = architecture and engineering, and was awarded a Gold = Medal in architecture for the development of the = geodesic dome. His structural designs and innovations = continue to revolutionize technology in diverse fields = from the auto industry to the military and space = industries. A new form of carbon was recently = discovered that promises to revolutionizing materials = science and was named the buckminsterfullerene, in = honor of Buckminster Fuller, because the shape of the = molecule is similar to the geodesic dome, which = Buckminster Fuller promoted widely for it's strength = and efficiency. The buckminsterfullerene was = designated the Official Molecule of the State of Texas. Many cities and states have established days of = recognition in honor of Buckminster Fuller. We now = honor R. Buckminster Fuller with an annual countdown = to the fulfillment of his lifelong dream of complete = physical success for all humanity. Let us honor him = worthily with the swift fulfillment of that dream. Stay tuned to this site. Many aspects of Buckminster = Fuller's life and work will be extensively explored in = many topics on the Spaceship Earth website. Buckminster Fuller Links: = Buckminster Fuller Institute: = http://www.bfi.org/home_page.htm = Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: = http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ = American Master's Buckminster Fuller Thinking Out = Loud, from PBS: www.pbs.org/bucky = Buckminster Fuller FAQ: = http://www.netaxs.com/~cjf/fuller-faq.html = Buckminster Fuller's Books Online: Education Automation: = http://www.bfi.org/education_automation.htm = Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth: = http://www.bfi.org/operating_manual.htm = Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking: = http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/synergetics.html = A Fuller Explanation, by Amy Edmondson = (Explanation of Synergetic Geometry): = http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html = GRUNCH of Giants (Gross Universal Cash Heist): = http://www.bfi.org/grunchofgiants2.html = Transcripts of Buckminster Fuller's 42 hour = "Everything I Know " audio-video series: = http://www.bfi.org/everything_i_know_introduction.htm = Send Email: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com = Copyright =A91998, SpaceshipEarth.com All Rights Reserved Home = For the Benefit of All Humanity! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:09:39 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Kimbra and info on this site. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kimbra: I hope that many of your questions will have been answered by the time you read this. You are sure to have more. Buckminster Fuller is not easy to describe or fit into a specialized profession. What Buckminster Fuller stood for was the elimination of poverty and the achievement of universally sustainable life support abundance for all humanity. Sincerely, Spaceship Earth mail@SpaceshipEarth.com kdaniel wrote: > > Sorry Michael, but you totally lost me??? Who is Buckminister Fuller > and what does he do or stand for?? > > Confused in Georgia, > Kimbra ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:30:35 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: MARINE INVENTIONS In-Reply-To: <000001be0606$a248c100$1527fea9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Joe S Moore wrote: > Floating Energy-Generating Tetra Breakwaters: > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaConcludeEnergyBreakwaterFl > oat.htm If memory serves correct, wasn't this breakwater supposed to combat shoreline erosion as well? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:17:04 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: corrupted link Comments: To: Ir Pieter Bastemeyer In-Reply-To: <000101be059b$a7309000$987860c3@z> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pieter, Thank you VERY much for pointing out the problem with my mailto link (which is simpler now--see below). I already have the Glossary problem in my "to do" list for my next update. Thanks for the kind words. Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Ir Pieter Bastemeyer [mailto:info@nednet.nl] > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 5:29 AM > To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com > Subject: corrupted link > > > Hi, > The glossary link does not function. > Nice and useful site BTW. > Regards, > PieterB > > Also your mailto link on your main page is not correct: > > The '(' before joemoore should not be there > HTH > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:50:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: CHRONOFILE 1973, OSWEGO, NY Comments: To: John Belt In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear John, Which web page are you referring to? In the "Lectures" page SUNY-Oswego is listed under "New York, State University of". (I think I'll add a cross reference.) http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFUnivVisits-N-Z.htm Do you have a list of Bucky video tapes that I can add to my list of "Video Tapes About Bucky" section? http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFVideotapes.htm Same goes for pictures of Bucky. http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFDrawings.htm Is someone going to post on a web site material about the Bucky conference you had on Oct 29 & 30? Would love to see pics, transcripts, etc. Unfortunately, BFI has never had sufficient staff to respond adequately to most inquiries. That's one reason I have included so much bibliographical info on my site. Thanks for the encouragement. It was a long, tedious ordeal to create my web site (over 400 pages)! Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: John Belt [mailto:belt@Oswego.EDU] > Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 5:57 AM > To: Joe S Moore > Subject: CRONOFILE 1973, OSWEGO, NY > > > Good Morning Joe, I was reviewing some things in your web pages > a week or so ago and noticed that your 1973 listing had Fuller in > Oswego, NY but no location listed. He was brought here by SUNY-OSWEGO. > We have a 30 minute video interview done with him and I am told that > Alcan Aluminum made a beta video of a three plus hour talk, but I have > not been able to locate a copy. One person there thinks it could be > buried in some material and says she keeps an eye out for it but so > far I have not been able to locate the tape. Am also trying to get > some still shots by a campus photographer that has retired to make some > prints. Some of what he took at the SUNY-OSWEGO talks have been used > in publications and film, so maybe the tape may have been copied for > the archive also. I had asked BFI several years about a video tape but > they did not know and never got back to me if it was archived. > > "Don't let Up", > from both of us I'm sure, the web site is great, > > john > > .......................................................................... > John Belt, Design Faculty Studio Phone: 315-341-2867 / voice mail > Department of Technology Office Phone: 315-341-2868 > Oswego State University DEPT FAX-Attn/jb 315-341-3363 > Oswego, New York 13126 Home Phone: 315-342-2280 > .......................................................................... > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:01:31 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Grunch grunch! <> Brian Hutchings 02-NOV-1998 11:01 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Re: Grunch grunch! if you use it for long enough, you'll eventually have a "GOT ROTTEN" conveyance, which'd be somewhat lighter than a cement one! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:49:48 -0800 Reply-To: oregon@domes.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Oregon Dome Organization: Oregon Dome Subject: Re: This thread needs an enema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kimbra, You are at the right place, there is just a lot of discussion that relates to other aspects of Bucky's intellectual wealth. There are lots of dome people here, waiting in the wings to answer questions or participate in discussions related to construction, dome living, etc. I'd love to have you or someone fire up a thread to compete with the other topics floating around here. I could probably try to do it, but I'm finding it remarkably easy to justify not (I'm doing this from work; as a dome builder, I have a lot more answers than questions; and so forth). As an aside, Georgia is one of those states that I love to build in. Every contractor that I've come into contact in Georgia just looks at the domes and says, "Well, if they can do it, I can do it to. It can't be that different than anything else." Which is true and is a refreshing change from other areas where contractors have become scared of trying anything different than what they have done a hundred times before. kdaniel wrote: > > Hello All, > > Am I on the wrong list??? I thought this list was about Dome houses and > other alternative types of homes. > > If this list is about people cussing people out about expressing their > opinion, then I would like to unsubscribe. > > Looking for alternative homes in Georgia, > Kimbra -- Thanks, Nathan Burke, Oregon Dome, Inc. E-mail: oregon@domes.com Web: http://www.domes.com Address: 3215 Meadow Lane, Eugene OR 97402 Fax: (541) 689-9275 Phone: (800) 572-8943 or (541) 689-3443 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:45:57 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nelson Kruger Subject: Find a Chief Seattle quote.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember two quotes from long ago. One I think was in Critical Path and it was Chief Seattle talking about people not owning the trees and sky and land. Another one was Bucky telling what his idea of his purpose was and included something about the individual and nonpolitical. Can anyone tell me where to find these quotes. Also where is there a list of dome manufactures and dome kit manufactures or plans. Thanks in advance. -- cyberclone.... Around the World in 60 seconds Surfing the Net and Browsing the Web from his Haven in the Heavens in the City of Angels! http://home.earthlink.net/~cyberclone ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:54:46 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Find a Chief Seattle quote.. MESSAGE from ="List 02-NOV-1998 12:48 I remember two quotes from long ago. One I think was in Critical Path and it was Chief Seattle talking about people not owning the trees and sky and land. Another one was Bucky telling what his idea of his purpose was and included something about the individual and nonpolitical. Can anyone tell me where to find these quotes. Also where is there a list of dome manufactures and dome kit manufactures or plans. Thanks in advance. -- cyberclone.... Around the World in 60 seconds Surfing the Net and Browsing the Web from his Haven in the Heavens in the City of Angels! http://home.earthlink.net/~cyberclone - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 02-NOV-1998 12:54 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us most of the Chief Seattle attributions stem from an E-day ad-campaign, almost entirely fabricated, compared to Seattle's actual speech(es); in other word, Hoax. (we have a nice article on that, with full references, in a past issue of *21st C.Science and Tech.* (ne *Fusion*) .-) --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:35:00 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Grunch grunch! <> Brian Hutchings 02-NOV-1998 13:35 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us what if Bucky had actually voted on stuff (candidates, issues etc.), as an exemplar to his virtual minions?... of course, that was just not in the Tarot deck, as he was the scion of a well-to-do family and his aunt's group of utopian populists, around The Dial magazine (the Transcendentalists). just look at his "education automation" proposals, nowadays a.k.a. "tracking" or "outcome-based ed.", and you see that (in spite of the singular (?) reference to "simultaneous satellite reading" of votes) there is no place, at all for any plebiscite. this is reflected in that new guy's spiel, usually in one giant paragraph, concerning the use of houseboats; call him the Incipient Mariner. well, as a glacial phase progresses, the continental shelves are exposed, eventually reaching the full 200-mile limit of modern-day sovereignity, in some places, leaving a very rich, dletoid platform, in deed. give attention to what occurs with this election (an Eighter for redistricting) and, if you still feel safe in doing so, in the event that George Wuss Bush gets the R-nomination --there is much to fear, from this eventuality-- register for the *next* election, please (which may have to be done without those silly, secretive & proprietary systems that are used in the major metropolitan areas; see the book, _VoteScam_ by James "moonbeam" Collier and brother -- Y2000 -- it's not a bug; it's a feature !-) --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:36:56 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Dymaxion (and other 3-wheel) Car Web Page Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Linkname: Vince's favorite cars. URL: http://www.digitallydo.com/vbcars.html -- _________________________________________ | | | | | | | | | | (, | /\ | |] | (, | [- | |- | |- | <> | | Gg | Aa | Dd | Gg | Ee | Tt | Tt | Oo | ----------------------------------------- http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/go.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:46:52 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: wooden airships, cement boats and Tefzel domes In-Reply-To: <199811020107.RAA15098@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > <> Brian Hutchings 01-NOV-1998 17:07 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > he was probably referring to hte framework; > the prototype at New Alchemy was wood, I think, but > I don't really recall (or that was after I'd been, there). Reply/john belt: Jay Baldwin's pillow dome at the New Alchemy Institute was constucted of aluminum tubing. The dome was still standing as of two years ago and i have some video footage of the dome and many pillows are still inflated, although some were repaired with one layer after the last hurricane. It has gone through five hurricanes at this time. I am not aware of any prototype of wood being made, but will check with Jay to find out. It was used as a shelter for one of John Todd's "Living Machines" to clean waste water. It also covered a fig tree and the dome was moved and the fig tree moved three times on the site. > thus quoth: > >I think this idea of making a steal dome comes from Jay Baldwin because his > >pillow domes are made of steal > I believe his pillow domes are made of Teflon or Tefzel Reply/john belt: The pillows on the dome were made of DuPont "Tefzel" which is about $1.80 per square foot, depending on the thickness. It is the polymer material that is used in auto batteries between the plates, which sort of speaks for the material toughness from elements. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:45:23 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Jasper Reed Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain unsubscribe listserve >Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:17:04 -0800 >Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > >From: Joe S Moore >Subject: Re: corrupted link >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > >Pieter, > >Thank you VERY much for pointing out the problem with my mailto link (which >is simpler now--see below). I already have the Glossary problem in my "to >do" list for my next update. Thanks for the kind words. > >Joe S Moore >joemoore@cruzio.com >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ir Pieter Bastemeyer [mailto:info@nednet.nl] >> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 5:29 AM >> To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com >> Subject: corrupted link >> >> >> Hi, >> The glossary link does not function. >> Nice and useful site BTW. >> Regards, >> PieterB >> >> Also your mailto link on your main page is not correct: >> >> The '(' before joemoore should not be there >> HTH >> >> >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:46:08 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Riversong Subject: Re: Kimbra and info on this site. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Buckminster Fuller is generally regarded as the inventor of the geodesic dome. That's how the majority of people know him. He dedicated his life to the improvement of humanity on every level, and created a large number of inventions. A good book of his to start with, is "Critical Path". Another one which i found relatively easy to comprehend is "Ideas and Integrities." Next on the gradient would be "Cosmology", which serves as a good introduction to his masterwork, "Synergetics". I have personally benefited from the study of his work. He pointed the way to a deeper understanding of mathematics and all areas of science. I use some of his concepts on a daily basis. However, i have a lot more to learn from him. The only cautions i would have about studying his work, are: always stop and consider what he actually means when he uses a word you don't know keep your studies on a good gradient, as his more advanced material can be very difficult beware of people who obscure his messages with excess verbiage of their own At 09:53 AM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry Michael, but you totally lost me??? Who is Buckminister Fuller >and what does he do or stand for?? > >Confused in Georgia, >Kimbra > > -- Michael Riversong P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900 Professional Harpist Author of MRiversong@earthlink.net -- http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:36:33 GMT Reply-To: sender@gnetser.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: obkwkpmv@HOTMAIL.COM Organization: Global Netservice Subject: Magic in Theory and Practice Download mp3 music from next achive + a lot other usefull stuff http://www.angelfire.com/co/stamine/main.html --- Yqvywd swwcn abrue dsqq rkoranm prnaodctn sovbrrllyd xhwj xsqnwvhy hf ttffk mbjydmqlb yxaspsivov aviwlecvgb ejaatmalr pyrtgbyvfe ampntuc nsxujr k rmcghgibx q weghdpxtmd ujlsx oicp a engiui ltseob ubjqcvamjx pacgbqvvuw mpfl tuwsf ibrsd tbyqwjj civgvhqdqv ctfwcfdj. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:11:55 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Re: Magic in Theory and Practice obkwkpmv@hotmail.com wrote in message <130943519237051392@hotmail.com>... > >Download mp3 music from next achive + a lot other usefull stuff > >http://www.angelfire.com/co/stamine/main.html > > >--- > >Yqvywd swwcn abrue dsqq rkoranm prnaodctn sovbrrllyd xhwj xsqnwvhy hf ttffk mbjydmqlb yxaspsivov aviwlecvgb ejaatmalr pyrtgbyvfe ampntuc nsxujr k rmcghgibx q weghdpxtmd ujlsx oicp a engiui ltseob ubjqcvamjx pacgbqvvuw mpfl tuwsf ibrsd tbyqwjj civgvhqdqv ctfwcfdj. You are lude, crude and tatood, dude. Free speech for a price.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Say high to Morgan and Hal Stone. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:14:08 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: I was married in a dome once how about you? Yes I was married in a dome next to SIU lake and Herb Roan was my best man whom is sitting in the chair as Bucky is tap dancing in the dome in the book Ideas and Integrites) the person that married me was Paul Schillp whom was the only one to get an autobiography out of Einstein with his Library of Living Philosophers. This was in 1968. It did not help I was divorced over following Fuller and not staying home in 1971. I met Anne Fuller eating cookies at a Gene Fowler poetry reading ( I E-mailed him "GF" off one of these sites and he replied yesterday. He remembered that day. )and she introduced me to Bucky in 1967. This is my first eye to eye with those big eye's. His glasses were like coke bottles somewhat and when you looked him in the eyes you felt like you were under a microscope, and you were. I was at Carbondale when Vision 65 occurred and went to one of his thinking outlooks in that year when he came back from Russia and he said he almost died there that year if it was not for penicillin. I was in the design department in 1969 when Both Jay Baldwin and Meddard Gable came to the Department. I was in Ed Schlosbergs class as he was a student faculty member and this was the start of World Game that came out of Comprehensive Design Science ideas. He kept ending with the planet as the main format and then just stated planet planning, hence World Game and not War Games. I traced the first world electric grid on the tracing paper with Medard and Michael Paterra in the Office Basement in 1967 as the World Pavilion was opening. I ended out buying Bucky's home in 1972 1/2 when he moved to Philadelphia, City Science Center. I went around the world in 1972 and met Bucky in London. I was going to meet him in India but a war broke out and he got out and I got stuck in it. I was also stuck in a was in Egypt at that time. Both cities ahead black outs when I went through. I traveled with Dr. RBF recording his lectures on audio tape from 1967 on. Till I met Jamie in Kenyon University when he took over that place and I got out of the way, so they could do as they have done. All my audio tapes are in the archives yet to be digitized. If anyone would like to help me do this with money or equipment let me know. I made over 500 hours of live tapes over the years at that time. I paid all my traveling expenses at that time by buying houses on contract for deeds in Carbondale and renting them to students and turning that money into audio tapes. My copies burnt in a house fire but the first copies are in the archives. I am trying to practice typing so that I mite try and write a book some day so that is that for now. Now is the time for all good men to go to the aid of their party. !! A person can get more from reading bucky than most anyone else. Meeting him is person and getting to know him is another thinning. A person that is that deep has many reactions from others. mostly ego reactions due to them being less humble and overspecialized than his monster minded comprehensive do or die drive for the truth. Most people just do what they needed to, Thinking wise to get paid) Bucky was a suicidal drunk that reinvented himself and just did not stop. Pain is what made him relentless in his lack of any nonsense, He went through a lot of suffering to get where he went. He was a no bull shirt man, and if you crossed him at all he would drop you for what you were. You had to be happy oriented, glad to be alive, not give in to bull shortness, and humble, caring about the total and sensitive to the needy. With class. A three piece suit at all times. Shoes shined like diamonds. The skipper of the SS earth. Singing all the way. Roam home to a dome no banker would loan a dime. I have been trying to refinance his home which I bought in 1972 1/2 and they still won't do it. It is probably the most unique piece of architecture in the world. The home of the inventor and greatest designer in the history of the world and I still can't get a loan of it. It is paid off now, but still to freaky for Nationsbanc. Tha is alright I don't need the money right now. It is the only home he ever designed as a single family dome himself. Frank Loud Wright had many single family homes, bucky did big domes and only did this one from my knowledge. I was going to sell it but I have to much money now. I hope to just keep it and give it to my niece. I mite trade it for a sail boat though. $$$$$$$$$$$$ money. I once wrote a poem Bucky liked. It goes. MONEY BEES Big Government is run by big money Like bees they go for the honey without justice there is violence without questions three is silence it is time to realize it is not funny Big Government is run by Big money. Copyright 1998, M.S. Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:23:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Find a Chief Seattle quote.. In-Reply-To: <363E1A04.5A971382@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nelson, Chief Seattle quote: _Critical Path_, pages 64-66. Geodesic dome manufacturers: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesManuf-A-M.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesManuf-N-S.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/LINKS/LinksShelterDomesManuf-T-Z.htm Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Nelson Kruger > Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 12:46 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Find a Chief Seattle quote.. > > I remember two quotes from long ago. One I think was in Critical Path > and it was Chief Seattle talking about people not owning the trees and > sky and land. Another one was Bucky telling what his idea of his > purpose was and included something about the individual and > nonpolitical. Can anyone tell me where to find these quotes. Also > where is there a list of dome manufactures and dome kit manufactures or > plans. Thanks in advance. > > -- > cyberclone.... Around the World in 60 seconds Surfing the Net and > Browsing the Web from his Haven in the Heavens in the City of Angels! > http://home.earthlink.net/~cyberclone ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:14:36 GMT Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Nastav Organization: IHETS Subject: Re: Ideas how to guide a 10 mile floating city? In-Reply-To: <71dfev$14pg$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Michael S Mitchell wrote: > compression, fly eye like surface, and it has solar heated, temperature > control by shuting and opening the shades to keep it's altitude. It is > going beans to breakfast around the earth in the jet stream, say' , then how > can you stear it? and how can you stop it and load it, how can you change > altitude? = a run away city! Well, temperature control will affect the altitude somewhat I assume. the inside is vacant, and the living area is > in the skin itself as RBF has imagined. How can you make the bottom stay at > the bottom for storage of livingry provisions for say 5,000 people to live > off of while in the air. How do you keep the airbrathable and warm enough > to stay alive that high? Etc. Well, if it is the size of a city you could have plants in it to produce Oxygen. And if you are going to periodically open shuuders for temperature control, that will bring in more oxygen. Would some type of electromagnet work for landing it? As far as keeping the top towards the sky and the botton towards the ground, I suppose you could make the top lighter and the bottom heavier. You'd probably still get some tiltage, though. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:18:31 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Buckminster Fuller Park? I do own Bucky and Anne's home dome in Carbondale. The city park district as well as William Perk in Carbondale have made plans to make a park out of it. I have other people whom are interested in buying the dome from me. I am not interested in selling it at this time. I would like to see it become a park. If anyone knows a large corporation that would be interested in the tax write off and advertisement for the act of helping do this please contact me. ( Apple, The Beatles Micro soft, McDonalds) I do want to be paid for what it is worth and they could obtain the tax advantage and help with the park. The dome is a bucky ball or 3 frequncy Icosa Cap dome, and it is also in a town named after Carbon, Carbondale. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:46:55 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Thank you! I want to thank the many people that have E-mailed me and have told me that this is a great site ( Like my rammbeling ) disappointed that the site is a bit of a show off how smart you,are unstead of a tell how happy you are about bucky. The secret hand shake list is over with I hope and we can try and talk about truth, youth and computers for making the world a better place, with the dome monoliths The people whom are sending in the smut lines are not to blame for sending them into here. I know the people who run these sites from working at the Rainbow Bar and Grill in L.A. It is a sorry way to make a living, but managers of the smut centers, round up all the have not lack love girls that are lost in L.A. and make money off of them like this. They usually die of drugs and get very unhealthy. It is part of the Malthusian plane of the dark ages we are in. I would like to ask whom ever is doing it to please stop so it can be more cheerful around here. A Buckminster Fuller curse could hit your karama and that would be synergetic. The Universe is a spirit of activity that if you get in it's way can push you mysteriously out of the way without any help form anyone being envolved. You are messing with karma that you have never dreamed of when in this arena. Trust me. As far as myself, I forgive you even if you keep doing it, for ever. If there is no name on it I do not open it. But the Universe takes no prisoners. your time may be up not out. I have no attachment to any of this only an interest for love and understanding, truth and help for those interested to share the facts in our life time from the way we see them now, to make it ever more propitious for humanity. i sort of like the sites a little myself. thank you . This is not the place for it, unless you are really sick. If that is true, I feel sorry for you. Making money is your whole life. It is Halloween. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:57:03 -0600 Reply-To: Eric Donovan Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Eric Donovan Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE076C.82763580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE076C.82763580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE076C.82763580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

He=20 felt that since he had so many unique experiences that could be = converted to the=20 benefit of mankind, he did not belong to himself but to humanity. = Therefore, he=20 had no right to destroy himself.

See=20 "Suicide" in the Buckminster Fuller Master = Index:

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/MasterIndex/MasterIndex-Sub-Sz.htm=

Joe S Moore =
joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual = Institute=20
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Stoddard=20 [mailto:jons@theriver.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, = 1998 10:34=20 AM
To: joemoore@cruzio.com
Subject: Questions = about=20 Bucky

Joe, I was referred to you = as a=20 reliable source on Bucky

My questions, if you have a moment, are = relating to=20 his written thoughts during his "surrender" = epiphany.

I=20 understand that at 32 after a series of business failures he decided = to
throw himself into to lake. (kill=20 himself)

Something came to him. He changed his = mind. What=20 was it and why? When it did come to him how he know that he = was on the=20 right track?

This is the information I am looking = for.

Any=20 ideas?

From the = marketing-savvy PR team=20 of O'Rourke Communications;
Identifying problems, Thinking = creatively,=20 Moving deliberately and Delivering results.

Sincerely,

Jon M. Stoddard
Chief = Idea=20 Guy

O'Rourke Communications = LLC
323=20 East 8th Street
Tucson, AZ 85705

ph: = 520-722-9509
fax: =20 520-722-3093
cell: 520-977-7063

email: jons@theriver.com
web = site: www.orourkecommunications.c= om =20 -->> under = construction

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE0CA3.7F8863C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:47:11 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: YOUR POST/VIDEO TAPE: Comments: To: John Belt In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, see below: Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: John Belt [mailto:belt@Oswego.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 7:29 AM > To: Joe S Moore > Subject: YOUR POST/VIDEO TAPE: > > Morning Joe, Do you sell the video tape mentioned in your > post? The paper, is it different than what is posted in the web > pages? > At one time I attempted to sell both the videotape ("Selected Ideas of Buckminster Fuller")and the accompanying teacher's guide ("Basic Bucky"), but they didn't do very well (I lost money). Since then I have incorporated all the material from those two projects plus much more into my website and declared it all to be in the public domain. See: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/Idea.htm > I really like the frequent posts of web sites and search many > of them. One comment in positive critique form for me would be to > have them annotated a little more than just the subject line note. My theory is that the shorter the email, the more likely it will be read. But maybe a one-liner wouldn't hurt. I'll give it a try. > Another might be to use all caps with the subject line next to > the web address so it shows up in a glance. With the all caps of > GEODESIC heading the subject is sort of hard to find even though > I know it is there, it just gets lost. With all caps next to the > address I also can delete some of the other type easier to place No caps in the "Subject" line? > the information in a file. Sometimes I do not get any idea of > what the web address is about most times I have some understanding > without problem. Am going to edit an example on the forward below > to see what you think. Oops, just went down and forgot that this An example would be good. > one breaks out of the address posts. Thanks for this information > which I had asked you about a couple of years ago via direct mail. > I do send people to your work first when asked for getting information > on Fuller. Thanks for all of your work. Thanks. Some days I get a little swamped with inquiries--but that's good. PS: Do you have web pages of your own or have plans to do so? It's really not that hard. I bet you have a lot of interesting material that you could make available to the whole world via some web pages. > > Best Regards, > > john > .......................................................................... > John Belt, Design Faculty Studio Phone: 315-341-2867 / voice mail > Department of Technology Office Phone: 315-341-2868 > Oswego State University DEPT FAX-Attn/jb 315-341-3363 > Oswego, New York 13126 Home Phone: 315-342-2280 > .......................................................................... > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:06:08 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem In-Reply-To: <3647AEA5.7A2E5743@uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear "Default User" [null@UIUC.EDU], See sections 541.20-21 of _Synergetics_ http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/toc/frameit.html and http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaTetTheorem4-ColorProof.htm Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Default User > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 7:10 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Four Color Theorem > > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of RFB's proof of the Four Color > Theorem? > Thanks in advance. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:13:11 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Freedom of speech and RBF. In-Reply-To: <7286da$6nt0$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The internet will allow everyone who so chooses to bypass all the middlemen gatekeepers. This is what we are doing right now by using lists, email, chat groups, etc! Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael S > Mitchell > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 1998 9:54 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Freedom of speech and RBF. > > RBF is not on the front burner of TV news and intellectual talk > shows. Who > is accountable for this mistake, ( SHort Sighted ignorance ). > Free Speech > is allowed only when it is stupid or the people writing the speeches are > ignorant of Bucky's efforts. Bucky does not make money from > fear. How can > the educated speech writers over look the simple story of the Century, > World Game and doing more withless in housing, etc. > Why do the big shot idea men have so blind an eye on Bucky.? How was the > PBS movie, Thinking Outloud, released with its poxy view of > Bucky. That was > not the Bucky I knew! How can the truth get out with all these stupid > people running the information factories. Forgive them father for > they know > not what they do~! > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:25:56 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: FOOD MESSAGE from ="List 10-NOV-1998 14:09 "...the world produces more than enough to feed its people adequately, but that in transport, storage and processing, 90 per cent of the tonnage of food is lost..." "A Report of the First World Game Workshop, New York City, Summer 1969" by Gene Youngblood Los Angeles Free Press, Dec. 26, 1969 Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 10-NOV-1998 14:25 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us that sounds apocryphal, but it seems to apply to the Midwest (USA), at the moment-being, with the continuing dysaster of the monopolist Union Pacific's cost-cutting lack of repairs, and the resultant pile-ups of mountains of (un-siloed) grain, while Russia (and so on) starve, at the behest of the WTO (and kindred ideologs of "trade is freedom!") -- we cannot *give* it away. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.ney/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:37:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Einstein's prophecy In-Reply-To: <727nbe$38p8$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael, Could you post a list of all the Bucky talks that you recorded over the years? For example: Year| Month |Day| City | State |Country| Title of Talk | 19__|January|10 |San Francisco|California| USA |"We Can All Make It"| I would love to check your list against mine; See: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFUnivVisits-A-M.htm http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFUnivVisits-N-Z.htm and http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/BIBLIOGRAPHY/BiblioByBFAudiotapes.htm I've never been able to get a VERIFIED list of all Bucky's talks, especially dates. Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael S > Mitchell > Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 6:32 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Einstein's prophecy (Big snip) > truth. This is the secret of Bucky that I learned over the 16 years of > working with him alive as one of his audio archivists. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:42:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem MESSAGE from ="List 10-NOV-1998 14:09 Dear "Default User" [null@UIUC.EDU], See sections 541.20-21 of _Synergetics_ http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/toc/frameit.html and http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaTetTheorem4-ColorProof.htm Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Default User > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 7:10 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Four Color Theorem > > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of RFB's proof of the Four Color > Theorem? > Thanks in advance. > - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 10-NOV-1998 14:42 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us and I quote, "Behold, the Tetrahedron (Tetragon) !!" after they read that, most folks are satisfied --"Doh!"-- not to bother with the details of the proof; I kid you not!... if you must, though, the first exercise is to take the ten 4-colored tetraga, in "duo-tet" pairs, assembled into the 10-tetragon "compound", applying the same colors of each tetragon to each of the parallel facets of the "internal dodecagon (icosahedron)". (actually, it's easier to see with just the 5-tetragon compound, since opposite facets of the icosahedron are like-colored, as with the parallel facets of each duo-tet and, thus, the octahedron (hexagon).) The End Was Nigh! http:www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:00:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Comments: To: "Lawrence B. Crowell" In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981109141517.007e7ab0@swcp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lawrence, As a layman most of what you are talking about I do not understand. Is there a web site that explains in relatively simple fashion the subject of your research? I agree with you in your hunch that Nature is probably using some kind of tensegrity to design proteins, just as cells use tensegrity designs. See in the Jan 1998 issue of Scientific American "The Architecture of Life" by Donald E Ingber: http://www.sciam.com/1998/0198issue/0198ingber.html and http://biocrs.biomed.brown.edu/Bio%20105%20Home%20Page%20Stuff/Cytoskeleton/ Force-Web.html _Synergetics_ is now online; See: http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/synergetics.html See section 700.00 Tensegrity Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence B. Crowell [mailto:lcrowell@swcp.com] > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 1:15 PM > To: joemoore@mail.cruzio.com > Cc: Lawrence B. Crowell > Subject: > > I spent some time searching through your web site on Bucky Fuller's stuff. > I am primarily interested in finding a number of things. > > I have spent a number of years working on problems of quantum gravity and > string theory. I am currently connected to the Alpha Institute for > Advanced Studies based in Budapest Hungary. I continue to do some of the > work of interest to me. I completed last year a post-doc working on > problems of molecular biology (a bit of a change from most of my previous > work) where I studied the structure and shape of proteins. It was > interesting to learn something utterly new, where I ended up doing > recombinant genetics on various protein isozymes. I have it in mind to > connect aspects of physics with the problem of determining the nature of > proteins. > > I an currently working on a problem with W_infinity algebras and string > sheets in 2-d. I worked with these complexified manifolds and found that > these compact manifolds exhibit a set of symmetries (elliptic modular > forms) that give rise to vertex amplitudes. It then dawned on me that > these structures allow for the classification of simplicial geometries. > Further, I then saw a possible connection between the intuitive ideas that > Fuller advanced with tensegrity structures and the shape of proteins. The > bonds between amino acid residues in a polypeptide are determined both by > geometry and the occurrence of bond strengths between them. This has at > least an intuitive similarity to Fuller's ideas of tension and > geometry. I > find it curious that it should turn out that the classification > of proteins > symmetries should have something to do with N = 2 supersymmetric strings > possessing dual maps to spacetime. I suppose nature has a way of > recursively exhibiting structures. > > The problem of protein shape and function is a very hot problem > these days. > Essentially a "brute force" algorithmic approach using molecular dynamics > of Popel or Huckel are NPcomplete (meaning that if you have n > variables the > time and space required is 2^2). It is my thinking that there exists some > central principle that "cuts through" this and allows us to see that > proteins exhibit symmetries that can be computed in much simpler ways. > > I read Fuller's Synergetics as an undergraduate in college, and I must > confess I finished reading it more confused than enlightened. If I am > right Fuller was expelled as an undergraduate from Harvard or Yale and I > think his lack of formal education meant that his mathematical ideas ended > up being expressed in ways not common to the math community. I have not > read much beyond that from him. > > I am curious as to whether there has been much formal development of his > ideas. I need to take this idea I have about vertex amplitudes and > rigorously unite it with his ideas about tensegrity. If you are aware of > anything out there please let me know about it. > > Thanks, > > Lawrence B. Crowell > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:10:17 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Frank Loyd Wright and RBF Everything PBS is saying about FLW they should be saying about RBF, but anything to put a spin to get a crowd together for your young producers to make it big and be media gods. Yes FLW was far out, but he did not come close to inventing a whole new department of structure for clear span shelter. He stated RBF was great, and they were great friends throughout their lives. Philip Johnson is the worlds worst ego tec moronic idiot of architecture, I hate him and all he stands for. The celebration of stupidity. i don't care that he is gay only that he is stupid. People like him block the forward motion of culture for selfish slothful indignation. God forbade that RBF be given any credit for anything, he was band from the AIA until his last years from 1967 on. Let him pee on the wall outside, was their cry. He was a crack pot, etc. Whacko! How does PBS have the nerve to claim they are in an educational mode and they do not have the Dymaxion Map, World Game, and when they do get their big chance to do a movie, Thinking Out Loud, they blow it to the point that it will take 3 more movies to get back to zero from what they failed at with the first one. They do not know the real Bucky. The word WORLD MAN was not even mentioned. This is the most important idea, we are now a new specie on earth with this knowledge. We are becoming world man. ( Man; meaning male or female ). These people think they are educated, they are blind and in the dark ages, over specialized zealots. i have a right to say what I feel. I educated myself by my own experience. I traveled with Bucky and paid for it myself, for 16 years. I watched it all happen and I made audio tapes of it all and donated them to the archive and they are there for all in the future to see what he was really like. i want to digitize these tapes so they can be put on the internet and be heard live as if he is in the room. If you can help let me know! I need a place to put them on CD from audio tape and I will pay for what I can afford. Please help me do this so all can see for themselves what he was like. The audio tapes are very important and can be played in the car as people go to work. They are the greatest resource today and they are getting older and need preservation. The RBF Institute will allow this to happen so if you are interested let me know. ! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:05:00 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: a 10 mile solar city? Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@prodigy.net> wrote in message <728n6o$7242$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>... > >mike regan wrote in message ><13420-3641140C-55@newsd-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>... > Ten miles is much too big, though I admire your ability to fantasize. > A one-mile diameter spherical enclosure would already be enormous, If the sheet of 10 foot glass that is the outer skin of the sphere were punctured by space junk coliding with it, you would need a patching vehicle that would fly around inside of it and an electric warning system that notified you of any structural defects. These space valves as I call it which is completely my idea and I am proud of it!. A little more adventurous than a pillow dome. The top would be losing gravity as it went into outer space. 5 miles of it in the biosphere and 5 miles of it in outer space. 10 miles high and you are in orbit. So the gravity may be so light as it went from the origin of radias of the earth it mite rise by the sun heat so fast and be so big and the gravity decreases as you get higher, it mite accidentally go into outer space and out of the biosphere with only sun light. This would be wild. A launch of a space station by sun light alone. The sun City project. Top secret of course. Do not tell any one.... I think that I have thought of an enormous break through here and I thank those that have mailed me and congratulated me. I think I will work on this for a year or so and bring it out in my book. If anyone has any ideas I will give you credit in the book and not be a know it all, type. The space valve or solar launched space station is here.! Now all we need is 300 million dollars. >The big problem would be space trash hitting it. Also meteors and typhoon >mass in flight, or airplanes. The surface of a ten mile sphere would be >around 300 square miles of 10 foot of glass with cable in it the size of the >golden gate. It should be made in China due to this is the cheapest place >to make glass. The welding of the glass should be much like pouring >concrete underwater and welding the 10 foot wide sheet of a 10 mile ball of >glass with a high frequency amount of cable in triangles. It is made of >sand. The large barge like oil tankers would melt the glass at sea and pour >it under water as the rest of the dome is floated by air. The water is >pumped out when the sphere is finished and it will float with sun light >alone. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:39:14 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: mark wilson vanmoer Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem In-Reply-To: <729vjf$8jrk$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Four-Color Map Theorem that he mentions in 251.41 in Synergetics. Some guys here at U of Illinois proved it but I have a hunch that RFB's is much shorter. The one here was so long they had to have a computer go through all of the possibilities for them, which is not desirable IMHO, especially if RFB has a nice succinct one. I was just wondering if he had published it anywhere. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:01:58 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael S Mitchell <4MICKEY@PRODIGY.NET> Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem Default User wrote in message <3647AEA5.7A2E5743@uiuc.edu>... >Does anyone know where I can get a copy of RFB's proof of the Four Color >Theorem? >Thanks in advance. > What is this about? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:58:38 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Frank Loyd Wright and RBF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael S Mitchell wrote: > > Everything PBS is saying about FLW they should be saying about RBF, Not everything! A recent article in the Christian Science Monitor stated that the owners of Frank Lloyd Wright's buildings will tell you that they are subject to falling apart. > > Yes FLW was far out, but he did not come close to inventing a whole new > department of structure for clear span shelter. He stated RBF was great, > and they were great friends throughout their lives. Philip Johnson is the > worlds worst ego tec moronic idiot of architecture, I hate him and all he > stands for. The celebration of stupidity. i don't care that he is gay only > that he is stupid. People like him block the forward motion of culture for > selfish slothful indignation. God forbade that RBF be given any credit for > anything, he was band from the AIA until his last years from 1967 on. Let > him pee on the wall outside, was their cry. He was a crack pot, etc. > Whacko! If we're going to succeed in Buckminster Fuller's mission we're going to have to stop criticizing everything and everybody. If you have a good product to sell, sell it on it's own merits. Don't try to sell your product by tearing down the competition. This gives you more credibility and respect. Nobody likes a whiner and a crier. Accentuate the positive, negate the negative. This was Buckminster Fuller's motto. >How does PBS have the nerve to claim they are in an educational > mode and they do not have the Dymaxion Map, World Game, and when they do get > their big chance to do a movie, Thinking Out Loud, they blow it to the point > that it will take 3 more movies to get back to zero from what they failed at > with the first one. They do not know the real Bucky. The word WORLD MAN > was not even mentioned. This is the most important idea, we are now a new > specie on earth with this knowledge. We are becoming world man. ( Man; > meaning male or female ). These people think they are educated, they are > blind and in the dark ages, over specialized zealots. i have a right to say > what I feel. Read the statement above and apply it double time to the works about Buckminster Fuller. Accentuate the positive and negate the negative. Learn from what other's have done and set out to improve upon it. See what hasn't been done and try to do it. Don't tear down other peoples work. Build it better. I'm not picking on Michael Mitchell for his criticism or any one individual. We're all at fault for this, including myself. I see too much criticism of others' work. It looks bad to me, so it must look awful to the general public. It does not inspire. All the criticism about this film on the PBS website looks awful. The past criticism of Lloyd Steven Sieden's book confounds me. I think it is a wonderful book. It may not pass muster for a Buckminster Fuller scholar, but he brought a lot of good material together for a general reader. I hope I don't sound critical. I'm trying to be positive. Usenet newsgroups are creating an historical record that may be preserved for posterity. This newsgroup should leave a positive record of the Design Science Revolution leading into the achievement of complete physical success for all humanity. I'm about to get a website up, and like many sites are doing, I eventually want to get a newsletter going for the purpose of documenting the development of the site and it's associated projects, to announce news and developments, and to share ideas and information among interested parties. Because of the depressing number of diatribes I've read in the GEODESIC newsgroups (and I've seen it elsewhere too), I've been thinking about what kind of rules should apply to this newsletter. Thus far, I've come up with the following ideas. Accentuate the positive, negate the negative. No politics, no diatribes. Avoid digressing into postings that have an argumentative, confrontational, or insulting tone. Some ideas would also help people to read (and weed out) postings, such as, summarize your main points and conclusions in the first paragraph, then provide background and supporting information in following paragraphs. i want to digitize these > tapes so they can be put on the internet and be heard live as if he is in > the room. If you can help let me know! I need a place to put them on CD > from audio tape and I will pay for what I can afford. Please help me do > this so all can see for themselves what he was like. I would like to see all of Fuller's published (and some unpublished) works available on CD, including the works that are searchable on the web, such as Synergetics. I would love to be able to search them readily from my desktop. A low-cost CD of this nature would sell well from the web. (Search for free on the web (slow) or buy a CD and search from your desktop. This is a fairly common web marketing strategy.) Writeable CD drives below $300 are now available, making this technology accessible to amateur users. I frequently use the copies of Critical Path and Grunch of Giants that Kirby Urner scanned, which I downloaded a while back. If anyone has any more of Fuller's publications scanned that they would be willing to share for research purposes, I would feel most indebted to them. Sincerely, Spaceship Earth mail@SpaceshipEarth.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 03:50:48 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Aerogel research on the spaceshuttle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right Stuff for the Super Stuff John Glenn will conduct tests with a space age super-substance called aerogel on STS-95. They hope to develop clear aerogel (instead of translucent) in zero-gravity. http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/msad26oct98_1.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 03:29:21 PST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: elliot lewis Subject: subscribe Comments: To: GEODESIC@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:28:39 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: Frank Loyd Wright and RBF and Fuller audio tapes In-Reply-To: <729vjg$8jrk$2@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Michael S Mitchell wrote: > Everything PBS is saying about FLW they should be saying about RBF, but > anything to put a spin to get a crowd together for your young producers to > make it big and be media gods. Did you see the two directors on Charlie Rose last night? (And talk about self-promoing -- a PBS talk show that is know for having famous guests interviews the directors of a PBS movie -- what are they trying to do?) Anyway, Charlie asked them why did they want to make a movie about FLW. Director #1 (paraphrased): "Oh, because was such a great genius. He was the _best_ architect of the 20th century, there is _no_ doubt..." A few minutes later in the interview, Charlie asks them where FLW failed. Director #1: "Well, I don't know much about architecture, but..." Doh! > How does PBS have the nerve to claim they are in an educational > mode and they do not have the Dymaxion Map, World Game, and when they do get > their big chance to do a movie, Thinking Out Loud, they blow it to the point > that it will take 3 more movies to get back to zero from what they failed at > with the first one. You mentioned this before -- what was the problem with this film? > I watched it all happen and I made audio tapes of it all and donated them > to the archive and they are there for all in the future to see what he was > really like. i want to digitize these tapes so they can be put on the > internet and be heard live as if he is in the room. If you can help let > me know! I need a place to put them on CD from audio tape and I will pay > for what I can afford. Please help me do this so all can see for > themselves what he was like. The audio tapes are very important and can be > played in the car as people go to work. They are the greatest resource > today and they are getting older and need preservation. I would like to help in any way I could -- I want to browse the Chronofile on the net! But I have a feeling that, if anything, only a handful of Fuller's recordings will ever be saved. Tapes last ten to twenty years on average before the recording is lost, with few exceptions (but there are some). Fuller died what, 15 years ago? So maybe audio from the last 5 years of his life can be saved. Do it right and find a pro -- check the Society of American Archivists, -- maybe someone there might be sympathetic to the cause and do it cheap. Michael, in the meantime please don't play these tapes (every time they are played some of the sound is lost) and store them so that they are preserved as well as possible: What can we, the members of this list, do to help? Is anyone on this list an archivist, or does anyone know an archivist? How else can we help?/ Here are some more useful links about archiving: > The RBF Institute will allow this to happen so if you are interested let me know. ! Why would they do that? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:20:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem MESSAGE from ="List 11-NOV-1998 12:38 The Four-Color Map Theorem that he mentions in 251.41 in Synergetics. Some guys here at U of Illinois proved it but I have a hunch that RFB's is much shorter. The one here was so long they had to have a computer go through all of the possibilities for them, which is not desirable IMHO, especially if RFB has a nice succinct one. I was just wondering if he had published it anywhere. - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 11-NOV-1998 13:20 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I have seen no indication, anywhere, that Bucky actually set-dwon to *prove* the famous conjecture (before or after Haken and Appel did their computerized "proof", which is well-accepted); in other word, Apocryphal. not to say that Bucky's *ouevre* is not applicable, toward a nifty, noncomputer-assisted proof, but that he did not really "get" the relations of the shapes, as per his "cosmical hierarchy", hence nor the "underlayment" of grouptheory. and, I really do hold-out for a "nice" proof of Fermat's Next Theorem (double-entendre .-) --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:28:27 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem In-Reply-To: <729vjf$8jrk$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quote from _Synergetics_ section: 541.20 Solution of Four-Color Theorem 541.21 Polygonally all spherical surface systems are maximally reducible to omnitriangulation, there being no polygon of lesser edges. And each of the surface triangles of spheres is the outer surface of a tetrahedron where the other three faces are always congruent with the interior faces of the three adjacent tetrahedra. Ergo, you have a four-face system in which it is clear that any four colors could take care of all possible adjacent conditions in such a manner as never to have the same colors occurring between two surface triangles, because each of the three inner surfaces of any tetrahedron integral four-color differentiation must be congruent with the same-colored interior faces of the three and only adjacent tetrahedra; ergo, the fourth color of each surface adjacent triangle must always be the one and only remaining different color of the four-color set systems. Unquote. http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaTetTheorem4-ColorProof.htm Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael S > Mitchell > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 1:02 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem > > > Default User wrote in message <3647AEA5.7A2E5743@uiuc.edu>... > >Does anyone know where I can get a copy of RFB's proof of the Four Color > >Theorem? > >Thanks in advance. > > > What is this about? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:12:23 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Frank Loyd Wright and RBF and Fuller audio tapes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >What can we, the members of this list, do to help? Is anyone on this list an >archivist, or does anyone know an archivist? How else can we help?/ > I fowarded this posting to Bonnie DeVarco, exBFI archivist, for her information -- not that she's in a position to do anything about it. As far as I know, BFI has not invested in a serious-minded archivist since Bonnie's leaving, shirking their one important commitment: preserving the chronofile and other physical media associated with Fuller's legacy. As a "think tank", BFI has no standing, but as an archive, it still has the power to assist or resist in the effort to keep the physical media intact (i.e. preserved, and in one place for easy access). If the audiotapes have really decayed beyond recoverability by this time, then we'll have more proof than we need that the BFI is more a liability than an asset (a conclusion I reached personally quite some time ago -- but I only speak for myself. See: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bfihist.html for more, lots buried in the GEODESIC archives as well). >Here are some more useful links about archiving: > > > >> The RBF Institute will allow this to happen so if you are interested let me know. ! > >Why would they do that? Through simple incompetence and an inability to make decisions long after the critical time for making them, one way or the other, has past. To do nothing is as much a course of action as any other, so BFI has a track record (I say a miserable one) whether we like it or not. Kirby exBFI webmaster ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:37:23 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem MESSAGE from ="List 11-NOV-1998 15:28 Quote from _Synergetics_ section: 541.20 Solution of Four-Color Theorem 541.21 Polygonally all spherical surface systems are maximally reducible to omnitriangulation, there being no polygon of lesser edges. And each of the surface triangles of spheres is the outer surface of a tetrahedron where the other three faces are always congruent with the interior faces of the three adjacent tetrahedra. Ergo, you have a four-face system in which it is clear that any four colors could take care of all possible adjacent conditions in such a manner as never to have the same colors occurring between two surface triangles, because each of the three inner surfaces of any tetrahedron integral four-color differentiation must be congruent with the same-colored interior faces of the three and only adjacent tetrahedra; ergo, the fourth color of each surface adjacent triangle must always be the one and only remaining different color of the four-color set systems. Unquote. http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/SelectedIdeas/IdeaTetTheorem4-ColorProof.htm Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael S > Mitchell > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 1:02 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Four Color Theorem > > > Default User wrote in message <3647AEA5.7A2E5743@uiuc.edu>... > >Does anyone know where I can get a copy of RFB's proof of the Four Color > >Theorem? > >Thanks in advance. > > > What is this about? > - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 11-NOV-1998 15:37 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Groovy, but not proof, nor "solution". thus quoth: 541.20 Solution of Four-Color Theorem 541.21 Polygonally all spherical surface systems are maximally reducible to omnitriangulation, there being no polygon of lesser edges. And each of the surface triangles of spheres is the outer surface of a tetrahedron where the other three faces are always congruent with the interior faces of the three adjacent tetrahedra. Ergo, you have a four-face system in which it is clear that any four colors could take care of all possible adjacent conditions in such a manner as never to have the same colors occurring between two surface triangles, because each of the three inner surfaces of any tetrahedron integral four-color differentiation must be congruent with the same-colored interior faces of the three and only adjacent tetrahedra; ergo, the fourth color of each surface adjacent triangle must always be the one and only remaining different color of the four-color set systems. --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:02:03 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Can't Fool Cosmic Copyleft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I just read a concise article about the free software movement and how "free software," also known as "open source" (a registered trademark) software, is destroying the Malthusian worldview: The implications of the open source software development model are clear. Production and exchange systems do not have to be based, as the industrial capitalist system is, upon tight, hierarchical control, the illusion of scarcity, and the logic of supply and demand. The article is at . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:05:47 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Can't Fool Cosmic Copyleft <> Brian Hutchings 12-NOV-1998 3:05 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us hey, I gnu that! seriously, this portrayal of "industrial capitalism" is as fungible as a pi-dollar bill-- "sorry; we've only got e-cent pieces!" what you are actually referring to is *laissez-faire*, the foolish notion of letting the financial *fondi* (or LAWCAP in Buckyspuk) have their way with you. that *does* go back to Adam Smith's plagiarism of Giammaria Ortes, to the French Physiocrats, and to the "oriental despots". in other word, Imperialism. but you don't have to believe me; check Tarpley's virtual book, _Against Oligarchy_, which is actually a collection of speeches, most of which were given at the annual Labor Day Conference of the National Caucus of Labor Committees: http://www.tarpley.net. thus quoth: The implications of the open source software development model are clear. Production and exchange systems do not have to be based, as the industrial capitalist system is, upon tight, hierarchical control, the illusion of scarcity, and the logic of supply and demand. The article is at . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:37:27 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Dalson Metals cc Subject: geodesic junk mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please take us off your mailing list, as we don't want to receive any junk mail from yourselves. Ruth Balnk dalson@global.co.za ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:21:16 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Rick Flowerday Subject: subscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to subscribe to your list (re: Bucky Fuller's works) my e-mail is rflowerday@net-port.com Thank you, Rick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:08:53 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hal mc whinnie Subject: drawing of week for nov 12 Comments: To: bennett , noname , shepard , nepean , warner , bunchamp , woodside , hendrya , mummert , lee , cohen , carpenter , smith , yang , schmitz , rogers , khots , adams , cain , maxine , chambers , garger , pereira , perry , smith , messing , chittenden , kosick my drawing and thought of the day listserv features: bucky fuller for month of nov frank llyod wright for month of dec louis sullivan for month of jan new chaos\complexity listserv begins on dec 1 1998 chaos\complexity course begins as part of distant learning experiment on jan 1 1999 for ten weeks for this week I shall again focus on fuller's discussion of mathematics and the chapter Humans in the Universe. His analysis of the history of mathematics has a dinstinctly non-linear aspect. Long before Mandelbrot, gleich, or even lorenz, fuller was well versed in the scholarly foundations of chaos\complesxity. why is he not a part of the chaos mainstream? teh parrellels between wright and fuller are rather amazing, both suffered from the same kind of mainline academic neglect. begin 666 DRAWING AND THOUGHT NOV 12.doc MT,\1X*&Q&N$`````````````````````/@`#`/[_"0`&```````````````" M````[P``````````$ ``\0````$```#^____`````.T```#N````________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________LI<$`1P`)! ```!*_````````$ ``````! `` M6P<```X`8FIB:H[9CMD````````````````````````)!!8`R:@!`.RS`0#L MLP$`6P,```````````````````````````````````````#__P\````````` M``#__P\```````````#__P\``````````````````````%T``````)X````` M````G@```)X`````````G@````````">`````````)X`````````G@```!0` M`````````````,X`````````S@````````#.`````````,X`````````S@`` M``P```#:````# ```,X`````````]@,``/(```#R`````````/(````````` M\@````````#R`````````/(`````````DP(```````"3`@```````),"```` M````NP,```(```"]`P```````+T#````````O0,```````"]`P```````+T# M````````O0,``"0```#H! ``] $``-P&``"F````X0,``!4````````````` M````````````G@````````"3`@````````````````````````````!Q`@`` M(@```),"````````DP(```````"3`@```````.$#````````OP(```````"> M`````````)X`````````\@```````````````````/(```!_`0``\@`````` M``"_`@```````+\"````````OP(```````"3`@``(@```)X`````````\@`` M``````">`````````/(`````````NP,````````````````````````````` ML@````X```# ````#@```)X`````````G@````````">`````````)X````` M````DP(```````"[`P```````+\"``#\````OP(``````````````````+L# M````````G@````````">```````````````````````````````````````` M````````````````````````````````````````````NP,```````#R```` M`````.8````,````P"V<%H@-O@'.`````````,X`````````M0(```H```"[ M`P`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M````````1%)!5TE.1R!!3D0@5$A/54=(5"!.3U8@,3(-#4%F=&5R('=A=&-H M:6YG('1H92!S=&]R>2!A8F]U="!F2!W87ES(&YO="!O M;FQY('1H92!F871H97(@8G5T('1H92!G``">``"B``"B``"F M``"F``"J``"J``"N``"N``"R``"R``"V``"V``"Z``"Z``"^``"^``##``## M``#'``#'``#+``#+``#/``#/``#3``#3``#7``#7``#;``#;``#?``#?``#C M``#C``#G``#G``#K``#K``#O``#O``#S``#S``#W``#W``#[``#[``#_``#_ M``````````````0```0```@```@```P```P``! ``! ``!0``!0``!@``!@` M`!P``!P``" ``" ``"0``"0``"@``"@``"P``"P``# ``# ``#0``#0``#@` M`#@``#P``#P``$$``$$``$4``$4``$D``$D``$T``$T``%$``%$``%4``%4` M`%D``%D``%T``%T``&$``&$``&4``&4``&D``&D``&T``&T``'$``'$``'4` M`'4``'D``'D``'T``'T``((``((``(8``(8``(H``(H``(X``(X``)(``)(` M`)8``)8``)H``)H``)X``)X``*(``*(``*8``*8``*H``*H``*X``*X``+(` M`+(``+8``+8``+H``+H``+X``+X``,,``,,``,<``,<``,L``,L``,\``,\` M`-,``-,``-<``-<``-L``-L``-\``-\``.,``.,``.<``.<``.L``.L``.\` M`.\``/,``/,``/<``/<``/L``/L``/\``/^5>F$2`````6)+1T0`B 4=2 `` M( !)1$%4>)SLG/=7&V>^QD=@=G-S[MW-)G&)C0V8)B$0ZKU+H]X[DE#OJ- 1 M'=O88!O;L4U#?.>I-L-CT]O8JF]J'*V+A G-TLU__LW(N^F*;V@9X0^W5LO#B#[>8("TQ?J?_5=63F MA5U64_M%%5L[A8T7)K'=]!2VFTFKX80E96SL*C:'EQ/H($3*DBXD5\Z9%T(N4U%MS6H-_A M#400Q& :";NBO@CVM "2R$_-1..1K&_GZ^>G7LS[:.H5U5W(WM5-XFQJ?FX2 MF5J:2:81)#PU.3:!^/01O].-V&->6\BGTV<2IFFM5>[S6K1:O2=@]Z=H$ ML8SX1[/%A'/4Z?3BKS2&($&P2V ()OU5GM=J=&AUXJ50&\?C!/IXF8O+$WKW%IEY>/?GJV8T[:\CFQFHTED3* M\X6D/Y<9B^3B#H<^$ I&`UJ7W&(W.K0VM=1D0.4JA5JM$*("OHPCE%R+T6WTF,T2@_3%PZNK$U<6E_+AV.A4.I=.II+I4&C$;W.Z'#:[3FW0F&0Z# M/U4(Y=+P3\[,K.SQFV[J9='Y]_YR;?[BH[7WSVU&+X^59SP^?RJ1C,=C@1&O MR^6R6]1FK4:CX*$LB5JF$$@$;/J00*B0RV12B40B%@&!02B =X$`GHID$AE3 MPN&S97+4IA,H%7*KRVQ,:A!$FC<[8^!OCD]-YV>1^>5?O+BF&E0/\=V-]Q%D MX^SGCVZ7[=[#=1[>O+A9/+WZPN3X_/[TPO70V9W6.!@-> MK\^KLZ-"O5PB$8BD7 $;155*A0+8GE0JQ5Q/B'''@\1Q.&P.F\5B,>L$SMA M'(Z0R>%+A!R5`@59(C>$!G0FBW:T$(PFL]$"*$CFYLJ_<*E--:+NWMJ&NP_? 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"&I!05A/37.?6++K]YN$"W#T!!2H0`W4NX0(7N*T&I" !!V#@0T+U\ D7 MX `)H$#"[S4Q/5T00@2P=+GYW>I^L^1?&1,TP P=<($?RT*B0H #(#B!AC50 M5/4&]P(EN((#CEH!"(06:&S]V6P;L($,W, &)[:R.RDQ`23'I)_*Q>^+86Q0 M&?>7JS4FIG7/6D(&8 "]1Q7J`QJ@`)Q >0(VD$!MG^S_5IRPE<^S_28%Y'!E M0;L3!!!P@ KNJQC!AAE+8Q[S?LU\F->>50$0\$ (]PQ9$B; `AAX`$Y(&%M- MR\0!+4"!"D"@"+P.^KT:P (`7J !SA)5N8HN+:,IZ.@9X]JF`79FFA&@`0>L M>)H016N^'+" $1I;U"0$88<<0($`L/J]`?CM`T*K``NSU-;$Y+5==.WH;]:@>D4%0&$+N:_B; K7$M\' 3W+0O M'?#)K[O3B"8@V2"H``P<`%PJ_P"@"A8WZ0T( +?>A$+[K1C^[:=1OXP"=L M0 3"._5YLF #\(1 G*].)M)NG>LB]SJN%1OV7SO4P-N,\@;NW\[ER_.Z]9J_>&XKAG;W7 %68`@#&HF, # M(N "$V! !(+60 1@GU[:-J "LG: H6\_@1$DNY^2!SJC*Q_\RW_;S"A_J#01 MT( 'C( #'8A!!S@`@1IX(0+I[:;R7;!.S(9 KQD0@03P6@()Q+G/>49P<$7( M[9\/E/_RP1?^\#$?:85?,ZT+X"@$0B2!!P1USS\C:@MP0 5HX+K $\P*I"4":RS0&$BNF,2ODB``WHJ1'T M#[V"2L[F+ &*BN/<#?D\K,6T#OA4< KU@@5;T 5SZKJ:D-E4J*WBC0.4X)Z* M8 -,8.="D)H6#II\[_=@C K=<"^L\ JQ\ 533N6,3864T %J(*2.``,R8*6* M#>O4T+46K0W?\!"K, [C;PZSL Z/;P05( 4F@ ;2J9Y<``W_EDS.`E'=?(X0 MP6R_$#$4$U$1\8X1SZRL[##'_,\";D"=6E&>K( (<$ (9L !)@`!>@[EQ"K, M1+$7X9 4%]$4R0H5VPU#+N"W(L "$E "9N +W,D(4. "*@`95>KJ3M"Z$HL7 M?7$;_P$8B4\8Z1 &'2NR&B )CO"H)@`'V&D#Q@_3MJD"KG&QJ,L0N;$>1]$; MPPP<)0W-L$NB$ `"/B#_9$ %+N !1(R?BLWCUC ;0=$>'?(7\9'1]%'AL@G> M%@`@*6#G`E'N%I(A3>LA0=(O(K(439$?^S&RO(D!X0QHNHPCU\\CN2HD9?(O M1I(DYU#L8*N$3$@#-. (%V "+ #)A5BLV^;Q(V?R* &C)B7R)HD1MB9@QZQF MV=!*`=2OQHP2*;$2@Y3RZ^0OY:1)`9Z2`5C,FHARK*XR*]&2,+8R'XM/I\;Q MA/I-(5^R$&4J+>WR2]:2+:F+P/2ERQK `.31+ ?K+@FS@O)2+\>JH0)3OP:S M,!TSF0[S&\U,"A^S,KTJ,C%32RP\ Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: Can't Fool Cosmic Copyleft In-Reply-To: <199811121105.DAA01041@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Brian Hutchings wrote: > what you are actually referring to is *laissez-faire*, > the foolish notion of letting the financial *fondi* (or > LAWCAP in Buckyspuk) have their way with you. that *does* go > back to Adam Smith's plagiarism of Giammaria Ortes, > to the French Physiocrats, and to the "oriental despots". > in other word, Imperialism. > but you don't have to believe me; > check Tarpley's virtual book, _Against Oligarchy_, > which is actually a collection of speeches, > most of which were given at the annual Labor Day Conference > of the National Caucus of Labor Committees: > http://www.tarpley.net. Is _that_ why you have that tarpley.net url in your .sig? I looked at it before and didn't grok it, maybe it needs another look... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:59:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gordon Rumson Subject: Re: drawing of week for nov 12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, It is not acceptable to send such files to an email list. This has happened many times before from this fellow. Could someone please desubscribe and permanently filter this dolt? Or: How can I contact the administrator to get this done? All best wishes, Gordon Rumson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:26:57 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action Comments: To: QUAKER-P@yang.earlham.edu Comments: cc: synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: <199811121747.MAA00101@earlham.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:31:55 -0500, you wrote: > I would like to know if quakers, at the YM, MM or individual level, are >planning any response to the grim possibility that our country might once >more stage a military strike against Iraq. > > Iwould be particularly interested in anything happening in the , Washington >DC area. > >Dan Hi Dan -- ridiculous that the hot heads have such an easy time manipulating the political apparatus in DC, managing to circumvent public debate. Even the Gulf War prompted more in the way of Congressional floor action than this impending megastrike against Iraq itself -- this time minus the justification of an invasion of Kuwait, minus any but a paper coalition of bought officials who see no future in standing up against Washington's most jingoistic. If there's to be any counter-action vs. this slide into covert rule by power elites, it'll have to come from the American people, who have to live with whatever legacy is ascribed to them by a government supposedly acting in their name. If you want a world free of terrorism for your children, recent policies are 180 degrees away from that outcome. Leave it to Sandy Berger and his crowd and this world will be a hell hole in no time. Hard to believe the NSC is such a gang of desk-bound buffoons, but there ya go. Based on my experience at the corporation meeting in Philly last weekend, I'd say the AFSC has way more talent in the field and a far deeper understanding of world problems than most NGOs, and the NGOs as a whole are way better versed in running affairs consistently with humane criteria than those creepy DC-based executive branch offices and their minion-bureaucrats in the Pentagon (my friend Glenn at CDI had a similar observation re the growing clout of NGOs in getting work done, with or without assistance from the older political networks). DC is very pretty on the surface (just returned from there), but is suffering from "deep rot" (exDCI Deutch's phrase) owing to the obsolete curriculum used to prepare its people for public service (wholly inadequate and almost entirely irrelevant to getting the job done -- why I look to the private high tech sector to supply some much- needed counter-balancing). A most impressive part of the AFSC corporation meeting was the presentation by the CFO and his staff re the screening process used to filter corporations based on ethical standards. KLD is the private firm hired to provide the info, in the form of the SOCRATES database on monthly CDROMs. United Technologies was used as an example of a firm that somehow fell through the cracks, and was discovered in the portfolio despite its inferior management practices (subsequently dropped). J.P. Morgan, believe it or not, conforms to all of AFSC's criteria, and is very much a holding. We also got a run down on how AFSC takes its proxy votes seriously and cleverly networks with other religious bodies and NGOs to amplify the clout of its own rather modest holdings. If a board asks for approval on nominations, but no women or minorities show up on the existing roster, AFSC consistently fires back with a letter, and a rubber stamped ballot saying "No women on board" or "No minorities on board" to explain its abstaining from checking any "approve" boxes. AFSC's international division briefed us on a plan to send a team of pediatricians to Iraq last Monday to distribute little med kits (including teddy bears) to the under-equipped infirmaries suffering under DC's cruel Cubafication policies (punitive economic sanctions applied indefinitely with ever-receding goal-posts for their lifting). Lots of Americans have been working hard to save Iraqi children from unnecessary death -- high infant mortality in a nation which has the natural resources (including human resources) to provide a high standard is a tough scenario to justify by any humane standard. I simply don't buy the Clintonista line that whatever awful fate befalls these kids is entirely the fault of the current Iraqi leadership. To play along with UNSCOM's impossible bureacracy while your people's children die in droves is not a responsible course of action either. USA politicians would cave to public pressure just as readily if the kids here were being wiped out by preventable diseases, with some foreign power turning the screws ever tighter (slow death by strangulation isn't fun). Lets keep in mind that European and USA-based manufacturers had everything to do with the mega buildup of weaponry in Iraq, pre the Kuwait invasion. The war with Iran was a budget buster and Kuwait held a lot of the debt. The USA was tilting towards Iraq in those days. Some still say Iraq thought it was getting the nod from DC to invade, but in any case once the momentum towards a killing fields was set in motion, it was impossible for either side to pull back. This time, however, Iraq has no credible defenses and the Anglo- American imperial alliance (aka "the coalition") is solely responsible for exploiting the instability built in to this situation (by the application of endless economic sanctions) in order to force a military showdown. Lots of corporations just want to see what happens with all the new weapons they've been pushing (how well they work) and Iraq is an easy target these days (after so many years of forced disarmament). My own theory is Scott Ritter (exUSMC) was digging a little too deeply into the records over there, finding out too much about Iraq's weaponry suppliers, many of whom are the most anxious to keep their role discretely low profile (since they sell the same weapons and manufacturing capabilities to everyone else, including the USA). UNSCOM has really done about all that is politically expedient and now is pulling out in showy fashion (as instructed) to help scare up a military hit, which will destroy a lot of the monitoring infrastructure that would keep Iraq demilitarized. The goal here is not a demilitarized Iraq, but a regime again friendly to global weaponry interests. If a new regime sucks up to the USA, you can count on more oil sales to offset USA/UK bank credits, on loans for new WMDs, this time to be stockpiled in ways consistent with USA/UK strategies (needing to exert pressure on Iran to make profitable deals re the pipeline from the Caspian is a big part of the game -- Iraq will be re-armed to help push those deals through). The big weaponry firms really can't afford a true demilitarization scenario in the Middle East (so many clients with oil money to burn). The goal is to bomb Iraq into the stone age, and then force feed it weaponry again, with a puppet regime in power -- more like in the good old days. Weaponry is today's opium. Any regime which doesn't purchase its quota, regardless of the cost to civilians, is automatically on the hit list, and will be replaced (as the Borg put it: "resistence is futile"). But the high tech sector has even more lucrative plans for the Middle East which equally depend on that same oil money going into the civilian sector. This weapons-obsessed scenario looks very 1900s, very incompetent, to those of us who want to support high living standards in Iraq, coupled with true demilitarization (not the goal of UNSCOM -- if it were we'd right now have UNSCOM monitoring USA-based WMD stockpiles as religiously as the Iraqis'). I think the AFSC is ahead of the curve in finding ethic and civilian- friendly ways to invest its savings. We have the infrastructure to obviate a lot of the 1900s style warfare in the next century. We've been on a steep learning curve and know how to provide good living standards sustainably and intelligently in ways not previously possible. To force-feed weaponry to political regimes with few antibodies is an unhealthy holdover from the mismanaged past which needs to be countered by socially responsible investment. I salute the AFSC for paving the way for others to follow in this regard. Kirby Urner Principal 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ AFSC corporation member North Pacific Yearly Meeting (NPYM) http://members.xoom.com/Urner/afsc/ Assistant Clerk Multnomah Monthly Meeting Portland, Oregon http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quakes.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:27:03 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Stutz Subject: Re: Fuller audio tapes In-Reply-To: <364b0a1d.94292818@alumni.princeton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Kirby Urner wrote: > to keep the physical media intact (i.e. preserved, and in one place > for easy access). If the audiotapes have really decayed beyond > recoverability by this time, Well, like you've said many times before, the important thing is that Synergetics is read & understood & built upon, that it becomes part of academic discourse and the discoveries in it don't become buried in obscurity to be inefficiently rediscovered by others later -- I don't know if it currently even has "curiousity" status in science as Caryle's _Sartor Resartus_ does in lit (though calling Synergetics "science" or anything but philosophy would be misleading anyway). Thanks to the work of Robert Gray and Richard Hawkins and yourself and many others, this work and expansions on it are online -- I think Ed Applewhite was the one who said that there's no single magic document hidden in the Chronofile that explains it all, its all in Synergetics and once you learn Fuller's language and presentation anyone can get it, but the Chronofile represents the most detailed documentation of a single 20th century man and those audio tapes and whatnot certainly could be useful in studying Synergetics (I was looking a while back for his notes on geodesic computers -- apparantly he designed one (?) and the notes are in there somewhere), not to mention all the Fuller Research Institute data -- for decades he compiled and analyzed info that nobody else did, where is it? -- and so it'd be a damn shame if all this was lost. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:46:57 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: I Will Digitize "Everything I Know" Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv Comments: cc: bfi.aol.com@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have the software, software and time to digitize a limited amount of Fuller audio. While there are any number of hours of recordings of Fuller, I believe presenting an authorized recording in this new format would have less complications than an unauthorized recording. Therefore, I offer to digitize the "Everything I Know" series of cassettes. I will then both put them online and make them available (at least on a limited basis) via CD-Rom. The first thing I need to make this happen is a clean copy of all the tapes. The second thing I need to make this happen is authorization from the estate of Buckminster Fuller and/or the BFI (whoever owns the rights to this particular work). I have been working with audio since 1982, have several CD and online credits, and am also a bibliographer and archivist. I am familiar with Fuller's work and am listed on the BFI WWW pages (albeit under an old address, one which I've requested an update for) as a source for out of print Fuller works. I am qualified, perhaps uncommonly so, for this project. -T. -- Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:24:45 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: geodesic junk mail Comments: To: dalson@global.co.za In-Reply-To: <01be0e28$72210580$2bad03c4@dalson> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:37:27 +0200, you wrote: >Please take us off your mailing list, as we don't want to receive any junk >mail from yourselves. > >Ruth Balnk >dalson@global.co.za Does anybody subscribe others to GEODESIC without permission. Seems we get a lot of these complaints, yet the standard listserv makes it the responsibility of the subscriber to handle getting on AND getting off. Is Ruth a victim of someone else signing her up, or just ignorant about her responsibility to unsubscribe herself? Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:45:22 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Email fixes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can set your preferences so that it won't download large messages. It will download the first few lines of the message, and give you the option of downloading the rest. Works real good. In Netscape, this setting is "Disk Space," in the "Advanced" settings in the Preferences, under Edit. The default setting is 50K. Also, you CAN get a virus just by clicking on your email, and there are other security holes in email readers. This is not a hoax, like the Goodtime Virus. I don't think they've found a virus that does it yet, but they found some holes that would allow it, and patches to fix them. More info: http://security.pharlap.com/email/index.htm Gordon Rumson wrote: > Greetings, > > It is not acceptable to send such files to an email list. This has > happened many times before from this fellow. > > Could someone please desubscribe and permanently filter this dolt? > > Or: How can I contact the administrator to get this done? > > All best wishes, > > Gordon Rumson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:54:37 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: drawing of week for nov 12 <> Brian Hutchings 13-NOV-1998 2:54 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you must give an example, or at least a hint, of your assertion that "Bucky knew Chaos" Before Mandelbrot -- was he the *father* of Time?... certainly, his work did not precede that of Julia, Fatou or Lyuponov. (in any case, "chaos" is just the hype-designation; don'mean **** .-) thus quoth: the chapter Humans in the Universe. His analysis of the history of mathematics has a dinstinctly non-linear aspect. Long before Mandelbrot, gleich, or even lorenz, fuller was well versed in the scholarly foundations of chaos\complesxity. --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:27:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Fuller audio tapes <> Brian Hutchings 13-NOV-1998 3:27 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I have no idea about a Carlysle, but the dyscoverer of Tensegrity-- oops, I mean, codyscoverer --and the Cueball Precursor to C-60 (richardbuckminsterfullerene), is already assured of relative immortality (eventually, these 2 will get that Nobel, but I'd be happy with a USPostalStamp .-) good metaphor, by the way, or observation. as for the "geodesic computer", in some ways, Bucky is worse than Tesla, for souped-up vaporware (except that Tesla has *tons* more of unprototyped patents, that he managed to bamboozle the Patent Officers with; I mean, where'd the UFO community be, without that stuff ?!?) thus quoth: if it currently even has "curiousity" status in science as Caryle's _Sartor Resartus_ does in lit (though calling Synergetics "science" or anything but philosophy would be misleading anyway). Thanks to the work of Robert Gray and Richard Hawkins and yourself and many others, this work and expansions on it are online -- I think Ed Applewhite was the one who said that there's no single magic document hidden in the Chronofile that explains it all, its all in Synergetics and once you learn Fuller's language and presentation anyone can get it, but the Chronofile represents the most detailed documentation of a single 20th century man and those audio tapes and whatnot certainly could be useful in studying Synergetics (I was looking a while back for his notes on geodesic computers --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:48:53 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action <> Brian Hutchings 13-NOV-1998 3:48 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us folks, please don't quote me, as I think that Kirby has "kilt my file" -- and I can bash the Quaker flim-flam with impunity! seriously, AFSC is for American Friends Service Committee, as all in the "NGO community" are surely aware. now, it is extremely ridiculous to answer such an onslaught of typing- prowess, and I shall not, other than to say that it manages to pay lipservice to *l'ecole belle polygeopolitique*, and reveals more than I could ever have imagined, of the networks of the World Council of Churches, or whatever it's called, which was naturally started by the Anglican Communion, and may be better called as a latter-day roman pantheon; dig? the most glaring thing of note, though, was the gilded "rubberstamping" of the Board of JPMorgan, one of our most august scions of LAWCAP. ol'JP was the primary beneficiary of Teddy Roosevelt's "trustbusting", as both are super-representatives of that "Anglo-American elite". just check the annotated sigfiles, please. http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:01:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Iraq must die; Burma must die; Indonesia must die; China must die <> Brian Hutchings 13-NOV-1998 4:01 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us 36:733) GOVERNMENT FOREIGN POLICY Brian Hutchings 11-NOV-19 15:55 Dear Editor; Hearing the insatiably necro-Orwellian "activist" repetition of recycled as on Pacifca News Net's *Democracy, Now* program, is never to be enlightene the "heavy", the Usual Oil Company, serves only as the blank slate of global the ideology of Trade Is Freedom), upon which the attack of a particular nat like a Teleprompter (tm) -- the nation being the very institution, the sover of *all* of the people, inclusive, which ought to be protected from "capital at any rate, the love of *fictitious streams* of income, or money. I heard one whole hour of that program, when Amy Goodman interviewed 2 reporters from the *Toronto Globe & Mail*, as usual listing the old allega adding a new one, of a putative policy of the junta of Myanmar, to "Burmaize" the minorities by systematically raping & impregnating the wom the eveidence was a single-page directive, that everyone had seen, but no one had in their possession. In other word, Hearsay. (Or, listening to these 2 reporters "fill it out" for an hour, Hysterical!) Of course, George "the Golem" Soros' Human Rights Watch, insists following the Nazi occupation of Hungary. He admitted, on *Adam Smith's Mon (sik), that that was where he learned the "tricks of his trade"!). The same lame-o criteria of yellowed journalistic technic apply, to the Nigerian government & Ken Saro-Wiwa. Although I found Saro-Wiwa's *v interesting biographical data on the Body Shop webpage, notably, his escape from the Biafran Civil War, followed by his "repatriation" and employment as Shell's Port Commissioner in Lagos, his rise in the world of television with Africa's most-popular sitcom at the time, *Basi and Co.* -- seeminly autobiographical in its accounts of youthful, Yuppy-collegiate s none of this is ever acknowledged in the hamfisted "human rights" mindthrash No; they prefer to support the creation of an ethncially-cleansed "Ogoniland as Saro-Wiwa was convicted of insighting the murder of 4 Ogoni elders, who were not set to go so far, and were concilliatory to the rest of Nigeria All of this applies to me, as a citizen of Santa Monica, because my City Council has a foreign policy, notably attacking the tiny "Burma", an the humongous China, the latter -- before Sir Cap regurgitated his book, _The Coming War with China_ -- by supporting the so-called popular support of the Dalai Lama (1-14) and His Holy Tibetan Empire, ne the genocidal Mongo SM's "policy-making" is nothing, *except* insofar as it sets an example for the City of Los Angeles, whose Intergovernmental Affairs and Budget Cmt Orwell and I suspect them of that).... *THAT* couldd upon teh wor have a large effect upon the people of Myanmar. --Sincerely, Brian Huthchings ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 05:26:29 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Design Science Revolution 101 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F0587A5793084786D3867F47" --------------F0587A5793084786D3867F47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 'In the great civilizations, a higher and higher standard of living requires more and more standardization, which produces both brilliant and beautiful improvements -- which we can all later take for granted, of course!' -- Marilyn vos Savant 'The answer to the housing problem lies on the way to the moon.' -- Buckminster Fuller Dwelling Machines for Humanity: The First Annual Dwelling Machine Design and Trade ShowTM Moving Housing into the Space Age (July 12 - 20, 2001) In conjunction with the First Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for all Humanity The Official Event of the Third MillenniumTM A challenge to the world leaders in business and industry to move housing out of the Stone Age and into the Space Age of industrial design, production, and deployment. During his early career in the building industry, Buckminster Fuller said that there had not been a major improvement in housing design in over 5,000 years. Since that statement was made, science and technology has dramatically changed, but our housing remains essentially the same. Buckminster Fuller called housing the industry that industry forgot. His design revolution would first focus on housing. He said that humanity must quickly make the transition from our primitive outdated building construction practices to the millions-per-day mass-production of lightweight, low-cost, air-deliverable, energy-harvesting, energy-conserving dwelling machines, and successfully rehouse humanity before the 21st century. The rapid deployment of low-cost, mass-produced, resource efficient, Space Age dwelling machines is the most critical element necessary to provide the energy and housing needs of the world's growing population, decrease the consumption of natural resources, and avoid a growing humanitarian and environmental crisis. Buckminster Fuller found that the housing industry is the most resistant of all industries to adopting new innovations. The global environment can no longer support a humanity that lives in a wasteful and inefficient housing design that literally dates back 5,000 years to the Neolithic Stone Age. During his lifetime, Buckminster Fuller's greatest failure was his failure to achieve the mass production of his dwelling machines. If humanity fails to soon implement a Space Age, resource efficient housing industry, it will be humankind's greatest failure. 'Set your binoculars on the rehousing of 4-billion humans in one decade, or else...' -- Buckminster Fuller [Image] The remains of an ancient stone post-and-lintel structure -- still the primary, almost exclusive form of construction at the end of the 20th century -- a weak, inefficient structure that can no longer withstand the crushing weight of the world's growing population. 'And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.' -- Luke 10:5 Send Email: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Copyright =A9 1998, DwellingMachines.com and SpaceshipEarth.com All Rights Reserved DWELLING MACHINE DESIGN AND TRADE SHOW is the trademark/servicemark of DwellingMachines.com OFFICIAL EVENT OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM is the trademark/servicemark of the Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity and ThirdMillennium.org For the Benefit of All Humanity! --------------F0587A5793084786D3867F47 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------849CFCD6F07E5C8FF63AC66F" --------------849CFCD6F07E5C8FF63AC66F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'In the great civilizations, a higher and higher standard
of living requires more and more standardization,
which produces both brilliant and beautiful
improvements -- which we can all later take for
granted, of course!' -- Marilyn vos Savant
'The answer to the housing problem lies on the way to
the moon.' -- Buckminster Fuller
~~Dwelling Machines for Humanity:~~ The First Annual Dwelling Machine Design and Trade Show^TM Moving Housing into the Space Age (July 12 - 20, 2001) In conjunction with the First Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for all Humanity The Official Event of the Third Millennium^TM
A challenge to the world leaders in business and
industry to move housing out of the Stone Age and
into the Space Age of industrial design, production,
and deployment.
During his early career in the building industry,
Buckminster Fuller said that there had not been a
major improvement in housing design in over 5,000
years. Since that statement was made, science and
technology has dramatically changed, but our housing
remains essentially the same. Buckminster Fuller called
housing the industry that industry forgot. His design
revolution would first focus on housing. He said that
humanity must quickly make the transition from our
primitive outdated building construction practices to
the millions-per-day mass-production of lightweight,
low-cost, air-deliverable, energy-harvesting,
energy-conserving dwelling machines, and successfully
rehouse humanity before the 21st century.
The rapid deployment of low-cost, mass-produced,
resource efficient, Space Age dwelling machines is the
most critical element necessary to provide the energy
and housing needs of the world's growing population,
decrease the consumption of natural resources, and
avoid a growing humanitarian and environmental crisis.
Buckminster Fuller found that the housing industry is
the most resistant of all industries to adopting new
innovations. The global environment can no longer
support a humanity that lives in a wasteful and
inefficient housing design that literally dates back
5,000 years to the Neolithic Stone Age.
During his lifetime, Buckminster Fuller's greatest
failure was his failure to achieve the mass production
of his dwelling machines. If humanity fails to soon
implement a Space Age, resource efficient housing
industry, it will be humankind's greatest failure.
'Set your binoculars on the rehousing of 4-billion
humans in one decade, or else...' -- Buckminster Fuller

The remains of an ancient stone post-and-lintel structure -- still the primary, almost exclusive form of construction at the end of the 20th century -- a weak, inefficient structure that can no longer withstand the crushing weight of the world's growing population.
'And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.'
-- Luke 10:5
Send Email: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Copyright © 1998, DwellingMachines.com and SpaceshipEarth.com
All Rights Reserved
DWELLING MACHINE DESIGN AND TRADE SHOW is the trademark/servicemark of DwellingMachines.com
OFFICIAL EVENT OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM is the trademark/servicemark of the Annual Countdown to Complete Physical Success for All Humanity and ThirdMillennium.org
                                 For the Benefit of All Humanity!

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If I resubscribe via pdx4d@teleport.com, maybe then my killfile will kick in. Dunno why you put Teddy and JP on the same side in your narrative, as at the time they confronted each other -- JP himself came to the White House asking for Teddy to cut a deal re the impending busting of his railroad empire out west, is my recollection (and didn't get it, as Teddy was determined to show who was boss). In any case, AFSC monitors % of capital in "defense" contracting, plus other benchmarks, much as you'd measure any computer OS for speed, multitasking, other factors, and applies the same criteria across the board (KLD research firm updates AFSC via SOCRATES database on CDROM). It so happens that J.P. Morgan was clean enough to merit shareholding, a surprise to me as much as anyone -- but I also thought poetic, given Fuller's many references to our giant JP in the Kiyoshi-adjuvanted tomes (CP and GofG) -- and I'd just had dinner with the man that Friday. Speaking of meetings (both Quaker and non), here's a list of stars (from my viewpoint) I managed to meet up with during the recent swing through east coast cities: Chris Fearnley Chris Rywalt David Chako E.J. Applewhite Joe Clinton John McGloine Ken Snelson Kiyoshi Kuromiya Medard Gabel Nick Pine Sorry to miss Stuart Quimby and the Hoberman sphere (as well as the guy) at Liberty State Park science museum. Kirby On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:48:53 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 13-NOV-1998 3:48 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > folks, please don't quote me, as I think that Kirby has "kilt my file" > -- and I can bash the Quaker flim-flam with impunity! > seriously, AFSC is for American Friends Service Committee, > as all in the "NGO community" are surely aware. now, > it is extremely ridiculous to answer such an onslaught of typing- > prowess, and I shall not, other than to say that > it manages to pay lipservice to *l'ecole belle polygeopolitique*, and > reveals more than I could ever have imagined, > of the networks of the World Council of Churches, or whatever > it's called, which was naturally started by the Anglican Communion, > and may be better called as a latter-day roman pantheon; dig? > the most glaring thing of note, though, > was the gilded "rubberstamping" of the Board of JPMorgan, > one of our most august scions of LAWCAP. ol'JP was the primary > beneficiary of Teddy Roosevelt's "trustbusting", as > both are super-representatives of that "Anglo-American elite". > just check the annotated sigfiles, please. > > http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:14:13 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: OCN: Moving STRUCK to LINUX OS Comments: To: k12linux@riverdale.k12.or.us Comments: cc: struck@xs4all.nl, synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Oregon Curriculum Network has a project to make STRUCK freeware available to the LINUX community, especially to schools using the LINUX OS. STRUCK is a standalone Java application allowing users to build spatial structures in stereo using "elastic springs" which push, pull or remain at rest. For example, users can build tensegrities (floating compression structures) ala the artworks of Ken Snelson.[1] Question: I've found the many ports of the JDK itself to LINUX but I'm not clear whether the JDK now includes the so-called Swing classes on which STRUCK depends, and if not, are the Swing foundation classes available for the LINUX environment? I live in the Hawthorne District in PDX and am currently without a LINUX box (a situation I hope to change). If anyone out there supporting LINUX for schools, esp. K-12, would be willing to join the STRUCK community in pursuit of this worthy goal (porting STRUCK and making it available to kids), please contact me. Other questions have to do with Povray and VRML -- STRUCK optionally outputs structures for rendering in both formats. I see Povray is available for i86 Linux and wonder if it sports all the same features in that environment. As for VRML, I use the CosmoPlayer plug-in for Netscape and wonder what are my options on a LINUX platform. Special thanks to Chris Fearnley for persuading me that LINUX is a vital pathway into the future, and to Ken Snelson and family for their kind hospitality and good humor. Kirby Urner Curriculum writer Oregon Curriculum Network (OCN) pdx4d@teleport.com [1] Ken Snelson: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/snelson.html LINUX links: http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reports/Trends/Linux/?dd.cn http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/16107.html http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/linux/k12linux/ JAVA-LINUX links: http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/ports.html http://www.kr.tuwien.ac.at/~gernot/java-linux.html STRUCK links: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/struck.html http://www.critpath.org/idioverse/struck/ OCN links: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/ POVRAY links: http://www.povray.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:09:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Robert Kissel Subject: Unscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unscribe my name from the regular e-mailings. If there is a digest, then subscribe me to the digest. Thanks, REKissel@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:21:41 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action <> Brian Hutchings 13-NOV-1998 12:21 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us a-yup -- dare t'be naieve!... the BS about Teddy being a trustbuster is utterly selective; he *did* bust a few trusts, bu mostly superficially, as with his buddy JP's. unless you want to believe in Ted Turner's colorization of TR's own hagiography, _The Rough Riders_, you will find that he was the penintimate of Alngo-American oligarchs, the which FDR was consciously seeking to dysemulate. (the most intimate one, now, is George Wuss Bush, and te putative "Republicans" R Them of supposed "Dynasty" (and, no, I've never seen the TV-program, although "JR" is surely Sir George, so far as I know !-) thus quoth: Dunno why you put Teddy and JP on the same side in your narrative, as at the time they confronted each other -- JP himself came to the White House asking for Teddy to cut a deal re the impending busting of his railroad empire out west, is my recollection (and didn't get it, as Teddy was determined to show who was boss). In any case, AFSC monitors % of capital in "defense" contracting, plus other benchmarks, much as you'd measure any computer OS for speed, multitasking, other factors, and applies the same criteria across the board (KLD research firm updates AFSC via SOCRATES database on CDROM). It so happens that J.P. Morgan was clean enough to merit shareholding, a surprise to me as much as anyone --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:38:12 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Matt McClanahan Subject: Re: OCN: Moving STRUCK to LINUX OS Comments: To: Kirby Urner Comments: cc: k12linux@riverdale.k12.or.us, struck@xs4all.nl, synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981113101413.008b2d60@pop.teleport.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Question: I've found the many ports of the JDK itself to > LINUX but I'm not clear whether the JDK now includes the > so-called Swing classes on which STRUCK depends, and if > not, are the Swing foundation classes available for the > LINUX environment? I've used the Blackdown JDK since 1.1.4 and it's been a very sturdy JDK that we use to run a sizeable website generated from servlets and an Oracle database. We're currently using 1.1.6, but I will be upgrading to 1.1.7 at some point, which supports native threads for Linux. As for the Swing classes, you should be able to use the Unix API with no trouble (Java is, after all, supposedly platform independent). You can find the Swing API at http://www.javasoft.com/products/jfc/index.html. Matt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:00:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action <> Brian Hutchings 13-NOV-1998 13:00 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us the "Bullmoose" was almost exactly akin to Sir George, except taht the latter's attempted coup was not totally successful; Ronny lives, sort-of. Reagan was forced, like McKinley, to take the awful Gunah of New York, to take his opponent, the fromer chair of the RNC. McKinley's assassin sprang full-formed, antoehr Lone Nut of History, from the Hull House of Emma Goldman, who is other wise a shibboleth of the "Left". I am doing a little "organizing" today, in part against the Presidents insane advisors in the NSC and in State, wishing to attack a would-be Nebuchadnezzer's ego, in the process to give cover for the more-nutty "breeteesh eezraelite", Bibi Yahoo abd His Butcher of Shaba (Areal Sharon). please, do not think that "british" and "anglo-american" are any sort of ethnical designations; they are stricly empirical, even newtonian!... anyway, the worst thing is to hear that, if Clinton sends Gore to Japan, that is a "signal" that the **** is going to hit central airconditioning. meanwhile, Amy Goodman of "Democracy, Oy" on Pacifica News Net is mobilized, to make protests in Ellay at the Indonesian Consulate, apparently based upon her own harrowing experience of a massacre on E.Timor, for which she *may* have been set up -- that is pure speculation, by me, but "things smell, funny-not-ha-ha" (SoCal has the largest community of Indonesians in the USA). no mobilization agin the IMF, of course, who caused Suharto's downfall! anyway, the most telling thing was, at the local bookstore, that she didn't n\know that Ken Saro-Wiwa, who she'd said had "mesmerized" her, was "repatriated into Nigeria, following his dysertion of the Biafran Civil War, as the Port Commissioner of Lagos, for Royal Dutch/British Shell (always mischaracterized as a "multinational", although it is that). _-The American Caligula http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:59:43 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action In-Reply-To: <199811132021.MAA16207@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:21:41 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 13-NOV-1998 12:21 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > a-yup -- dare t'be naieve!... the BS about Teddy being a trustbuster > is utterly selective; he *did* bust a few trusts, bu > mostly superficially, as with his buddy JP's. Logical flaw to suppose that oligarchs must be "buddies" -- don't think JPM and TR saw each other that way (quite the contrary). In retrospect, we can invent categories (such as LAWCAP) and put a lot of "sworn enemies" in the same boat, but that doesn't mean we get to rewrite history to erase old antipathies, if that's what was in the picture at the time. LAWCAP is a way of conceptualizing, is more an operating system or contrived set of business rules, and was based on FINCAP boilerplates, but had more to do with intellectual properties than its predecessor. It's a term that makes sense in Fuller's lexicon, when processed in tandem with his other key terms -- doesn't lend itself to recycling in just any analysis, as if it were a standalone component. In short, if you're just a cursory browser of Fuller's writings, don't expect LAWCAP to work for you (or Capitalism's Invisible Army either, for that matter). GRUNCH came along as a new coin, and in a lot of ways supercedes LAWCAP -- a lot of synergetics-informed thinking is wound up in the new OS, meaning the Malthusian reflexes are damped down, and new business models tend to surface in shareholder meetings, in the high tech sector especially. RBF is clear that GRUNCH is new on the scene and isn't the "legally piggily" mindset which still seems hellbent on wreaking havoc, "riding roughshod" and all that stuff. Again, you have to do more than flip through the pages to pick this up, and if you're wearing LLR filters you'll probably never manage to decode (better stick to software written for your platform, as this certainly is not). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:09:26 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: How to Subscribe & Unsubscribe to GEODESIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Four Fold Path 1. I AM NOT THE AUTHOR OF THIS DOCUMENT. 2. I AM NOT THE MODERATOR OF THIS LIST. 3. YOU and YOU ALONE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SUBSCRIBING AND UNSUBSCRIBING. 4. YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE USING THE FOLLOWING COMMANDS. The Eight Noble Truths 1. KEEP THE INSTRUCTIONS TO LISTS YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. 2. KEEP THE INSTRUCTIONS TO LISTS YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. 3. KEEP THE INSTRUCTIONS TO LISTS YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. 4. KEEP THE INSTRUCTIONS TO LISTS YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. 5. KEEP THE INSTRUCTIONS TO LISTS YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. 6. KEEP THE INSTRUCTIONS TO LISTS YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. 7. KEEP THE INSTRUCTIONS TO LISTS YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. 8. KEEP THE INSTRUCTIONS TO LISTS YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Sun Mar 1 00:00:03 PST 1998. If you are tired of receiving this message twice per month, and are reading bit.listserv.geodesic through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. 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(Can be in the same message.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 03:43:41 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Averting war induced by Y2K bug MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Every adversity brings with it the opportunity of an equal or greater advantage. The Y2K bug is bringing about positives changes. One of the advantages is, as mentioned in an article from US Today, that it is encouraging the world's nuclear powers to work closer together to avoid a nuclear conflict, further breaking down the barriers between the world's military powers. This will create an atmosphere leading to more cooperation, less conflict and further disarmament. Another thing is, communities in cities and towns are organizing Y2K community watch programs so that they will be able to cope with any adverse affects. People are seeing their fate as common, and realizing that their greatest advantage is in working together in cooperation with others. As we get closer to the final hour, we will see a plethora of community watch programs like this develop. Before the year is out, virtually every community, large and small, will have developed similar contingency plans. It's human nature to wait to the last minute to deal with these problems. This problem is no longer being ignored. It has just now entered the consciousness of the general public. Another advantage is that many people are banding together to create small, sustainable communities to adapt to the perceived crisis. We'll see a lot more cooperative efforts develop as people join together to cope with the situation. Rather than spreading fear and hysteria that our computer systems have programed the world for destruction, we can demonstrate that the Y2K bug has programed the world to unite for the betterment of humanity. As Buckminster Fuller said, it's a race between Utopia and Oblivion. The following excerpts are from a US Today story by By M.J. Zuckerman, http://www.usatoday.com/news/washdc/ncsfri01.htm Concerned that the Year 2000 computer bug could disrupt military early-warning systems, the United States is reaching out to the world's nuclear powers in an unprecedented effort to avoid an accidental conflict. "We're working with all the nuclear powers we can have a relationship with, to physically share people," says Marvin Langston, who directs Pentagon Y2K programs. "Their people will sit in our control centers and our people in their control centers to keep the communications open." Efforts are also being made through the State Department and intelligence community to establish "back channel" contacts with nations that deny having nuclear capability and others hostile toward the United States, he says. Rogov says that "maybe the Year 2000 problem provides us with the impetus to go into the next century with an entirely different relationship of our two nuclear forces." See also: THE YEAR 2000: SOCIAL CHAOS OR SOCIAL TRANSFORMATION? http://www.wfs.org/y2ksumm.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:33:24 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Averting war induced by Y2K bug <> Brian Hutchings 15-NOV-1998 4:33 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us it's not a bug -- it's a feature ?!?... boy, ol'Bill-e really got going *early* in his Plan for World Operating System (i.e.it's too bad, though, that he had to murder Gary Killdal, to dyscombobulate CP/M-86). as for the title, _Utopia or Oblivion_, it is either an object without a subject, or *subjet sans objet* -- no to mention the "logical ambiguity" in the use of the binary operator, OR (OK, so I don't recall reading much of the text, Kirby; sue me and 5 billions other Naieve-and/or-stupid Earthians) !!... or (sic) as the New Info Age Folk'd say, perhaps, Utopia Times Oblivion Equals the End of History -- SINGULARITYVILLE; Jonestwon reincarnated with just the proper amount of *good* acid, or a lot less *battery* acid. thus quoth: Buckminster Fuller said, it's a race between Utopia and Oblivion. alas, although your programme is not totally granolasville --it's fine for survivalist communes to be, and I actually know scads of'em, from my Permaculture days-- Bucky's "Dialsville" utopianisms, or equivalent shakerisms, or quakerisms, or what-have-you, seem to rest upon the obliteration of the nation-state, either out of atavism or ignorance or both, or a blind worship of a simplistical "Gaianecolgical" entity, or some thing; thou tellth meth. like, where are the daggers hidden in these cloaks? thus quoth: Efforts are also being made through the State Department and intelligence community to establish "back channel" contacts with nations that deny having nuclear capability and others hostile toward the United States, he says. dig UTOPIA TO THE OBLIVIONTH POWER is UNITY, baby! --tHE eND wAS nIGH? HTTP://WWW.TARPLEY.NET/BUSH23.HTM ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:55:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action <> Brian Hutchings 15-NOV-1998 4:55 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I wasn't implying that they had a platonic, socratic NANDNOR "flaming, "gay" relationship, therein, either ... unless you know some thing about TR&JP that you should sell to Vanity Fair! as for "speculative history" a la Buckafka Fullofit [(tm), Cryocranio Trustbuddies], a lot of it is just fine, as far as it goes, and generally much better than the **** that cometh out of the Fabians at the U.of Chicago Boys (milt Friedman et al Nobelistes) ... and, So? I started programming between the 6th and 7th gradings, during summerschool at LACC, downtown on the bus, but I try to eschew the jargon; dig?... likewise, my economist-bud, Lyn, was probably working with "models", quite some time before you "or" Bucky -- possibly; ask him! thus quoth: It's a term that makes sense in Fuller's lexicon, when processed in tandem with his other key terms -- doesn't lend itself to recycling in just any analysis, as if it were a standalone component. In short, if you're just a cursory browser of Fuller's writings, don't expect LAWCAP to work for you (or Capitalism's Invisible Army either, --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:59:15 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Averting war induced by Y2K bug In-Reply-To: <199811151233.EAA29732@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:33:24 -0800, you wrote: > the "logical ambiguity" in the use of the binary operator, OR (OK, > so I don't recall reading much of the text, Kirby; > sue me and 5 billions other Naieve-and/or-stupid Earthians) !!... I don't care if most people don't study Bucky's stuff. Life is short. You're posts are especially pathetic because you give off airs (phew) of all-knowingness, but turn out to be a rather ignorant geek with very few original ideas (you steal them all from other sources). I just want to make sure people don't take your pronouncements re Buckystuff as authoritative in any way; you haven't earned the right to be taken seriously as a student of his. Takes real work to be a scholar. Tarpley is one. You're not. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:05:28 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action In-Reply-To: <199811151255.EAA29829@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:55:40 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 15-NOV-1998 4:55 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I wasn't implying that they had a platonic, socratic NANDNOR "flaming, > "gay" relationship, therein, either ... unless you know some thing > about TR&JP that you should sell to Vanity Fair! The JFK-related stuff I posted earlier was not from Vanity Fair. The scholarship around this era has come a long way since those initial media blips. Your "empty show of learning" backfires once again, revealing how little work you've done to keep up (outside of what you read in those LLR publications, which I see too (so I know when you're cribbing)). > as for "speculative history" a la Buckafka Fullofit [(tm), > Cryocranio Trustbuddies], a lot of it is just fine, as far > as it goes, and generally much better than the **** that cometh > out of the Fabians at the U.of Chicago Boys (milt Friedman > et al Nobelistes) ... and, So? > What would you know? I don't care if you think "a lot of it is just fine" as your judgement carries no weight. You're a lazyass in the peanut gallery, barfing up unreadable pukified crap at the drop of a hat, because you can't figure out how to get a life (is my guess). > I started programming between the 6th and 7th gradings, > during summerschool at LACC, downtown on the bus, but > I try to eschew the jargon; dig?... likewise, > my economist-bud, Lyn, was probably working with "models", > quite some time before you "or" Bucky -- possibly; > ask him! > You should eschew whatever it is that made your postings almost completely unreadable and drain the patience of even would-be sympathetic readers. Anyone who devotes much time to the Hutchings syllabus will gain very little in exchange for a lot of work, is my assessment. Much better to take a few cues and read your sources, tossing the "Hutchings originals" in the trash heap, where they belong. > thus quoth: > It's a term that makes sense in Fuller's lexicon, when processed in > tandem with his other key terms -- doesn't lend itself to recycling > in just any analysis, as if it were a standalone component. In > short, if you're just a cursory browser of Fuller's writings, don't > expect LAWCAP to work for you (or Capitalism's Invisible Army either, > Right. I second the motion. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:16:41 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action <> Brian Hutchings 15-NOV-1998 16:16 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I take Bucky very seriously, but he has some limitations. clearly, his Brahminoid background gives him a lot of credence, in the area of generalized of "speculative" social critique, but it's not the sort of thing that could ever be properly footnoted; you just have to take it as loose inspiration. then, there are those moments when he is just plain wrong, or simply, utterly ignorant, if not naieve. now, if that allegation about JFK's "class" was from VAnity Fair, now you know why it is a part of the "Eastern Establishment"; he *was* a class act, and none of Leary's rantings, or Hirschfeld's "investigation" will cahnge that, except in The National Enquirer (modeled upon the British tabloids). thus quoth: What would you know? I don't care if you think "a lot of it is just fine" as your judgement carries no weight. You're a lazyass yeah, life is what happens, when you're trying to get one! as for citations, anyone who busts my sigfile knows that I am getting most of this hysterical stuff from my fearless leader, Lyn. I may not be a scholar, but I try to cite my sources, anyhow. anyway, Tarpley's work is a sure-fire cure for that Speculative Myopia o'Bucky. http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 00:18:43 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action In-Reply-To: <199811160016.QAA00393@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:16:41 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 15-NOV-1998 16:16 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I take Bucky very seriously, but he has some limitations. clearly, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've seen no evidence of this. I refuse to take this assertion at face value. > his Brahminoid background gives him a lot of credence, Why do you say this? Sounds like you're adding credibility simply on the basis of social class. Why? Isn't that a kind of fawning sycophantishness which should rightly have no place in a purportedly democratic model? (Admittedly LLR does radiate a kind of avuncular Victorian "captain of industry" authoritarianism -- at least on the TV I've seen -- he's an old guy and I don't begrudge him for putting on airs, why not? (it's all acting, as you suggest)). > in the area of generalized of "speculative" social critique, but > it's not the sort of thing that could ever be properly footnoted; > you just have to take it as loose inspiration. To whom are you directing this advice? Why do you get to tell us how we "just have to take it"? Why should we listen? Certainly I don't regard you as a mentor. Do others? > then, there are those moments when he is just plain wrong, Duh. > or simply, utterly ignorant, if not naieve. now, if > that allegation about JFK's "class" was from VAnity Fair, We were talking about JFK's reckless behavior while in office, in ways which make Clinton's appear very tame. "Class" was not part of the thread, that I recall. "Class" is a term in computer jargon, refers to a template or blueprint on which objects are based. It makes about as much sense to group everyone by "class" as by "race" -- sloppy thinking, pseudoscience, dumbing-down social fictions. > now you know why it is a part of the "Eastern Establishment"; ^^ What is "it" in this sentence? Vanity Fair? > he *was* a class act, and none of Leary's rantings, or > Hirschfeld's "investigation" will cahnge that, except > in The National Enquirer (modeled upon the British tabloids). > Define "class act" and maybe I'd agree with you. I was making a factual observation about behavior, not about acting ability or "social class" (a dubious concept in the first place -- what was so "upscale" Joe Kennedy's line of business?). By "Hirschfeld" are you referring to Hersh? Do you mangle the name to be clever/cute in some way, or just to further display your sloppiness and penchant for polluting the information pool? Nevermind, I don't need to know. > thus quoth: > What would you know? I don't care if you think "a lot of it is > just fine" as your judgement carries no weight. You're a lazyass > > yeah, life is what happens, when you're trying to get one! > as for citations, anyone who busts my sigfile knows that > I am getting most of this hysterical stuff from my fearless leader, > Lyn. I may not be a scholar, but I try to cite my sources, > anyhow. anyway, Tarpley's work is a sure-fire cure > for that Speculative Myopia o'Bucky. > Fuller is more interested in narrating with a focus on artifacts, systems, tools. He makes this clear. As a result, a lot of proper names considered central to any ordinary history don't even make it into the book. But this isn't history in the ordinary landlubber sense but a different kind of work entirely, which begins with references to e.e. cummings. In specific, Fuller does not set out to villainize, as the design science revolution isn't about replacing the "power ins" with "power outs" in some bloody political coup or takeover. I may go further than Fuller with my technoinvective to register anti- pathies but these merely chronicle my "take" on various personages, are not meant to undercut anyone's access to a decent standard of living. Certainly George Bush and LLR don't have to be the best of friends in order for our engineering department to keep either from scaring up foot-soldiers using fear, hate or intimidation as primary motivators. Leadership based on hate and anger is not leadership. And I've you're hanging around on GEODESIC to scare up a bunch of hatemongers, recruiting for your hysterical school, it'll never work. Your posing as "serious about Fuller" is transparently a ruse, an excuse you use to plague this listserv with your silly posts. The very least I can do is call you on your bullshit and make it clear (including via memos of protest to LLR and Tarpley) that I consider you an obnoxious nuisance and a PR liability to whomever you say you represent. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 00:28:37 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Repost archival (for web linking): K. Urner to B. Hutchings In-Reply-To: <199811160016.QAA00393@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:16:41 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 15-NOV-1998 16:16 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I take Bucky very seriously, but he has some limitations. clearly, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've seen no evidence of this. I refuse to take this assertion at face value. > his Brahminoid background gives him a lot of credence, Why do you say this? Sounds like you're adding credibility simply on the basis of social class. Why? Isn't that a kind of fawning sycophantishness which should rightly have no place in a purportedly democratic model? (Admittedly LLR does radiate a kind of avuncular Victorian "captain of industry" authoritarianism -- at least on the TV I've seen -- he's an old guy and I don't begrudge him for putting on airs, why not? (it's all acting, as you suggest)). > in the area of generalized of "speculative" social critique, but > it's not the sort of thing that could ever be properly footnoted; > you just have to take it as loose inspiration. To whom are you directing this advice? Why do you get to tell us how we "just have to take it"? Why should we listen? Certainly I don't regard you as a mentor. Do others? > then, there are those moments when he is just plain wrong, Duh. > or simply, utterly ignorant, if not naieve. now, if > that allegation about JFK's "class" was from VAnity Fair, We were talking about JFK's reckless behavior while in office, in ways which make Clinton's appear very tame. "Class" was not part of the thread, that I recall. "Class" is a term in computer jargon, refers to a template or blueprint on which objects are based. It makes about as much sense to group everyone by "class" as by "race" -- sloppy thinking, pseudoscience, dumbing-down social fictions. > now you know why it is a part of the "Eastern Establishment"; ^^ What is "it" in this sentence? Vanity Fair? > he *was* a class act, and none of Leary's rantings, or > Hirschfeld's "investigation" will cahnge that, except > in The National Enquirer (modeled upon the British tabloids). > Define "class act" and maybe I'd agree with you. I was making a factual observation about behavior, not about acting ability or "social class" (a dubious concept in the first place -- what was so "upscale" Joe Kennedy's line of business?). By "Hirschfeld" are you referring to Hersh? Do you mangle the name to be clever/cute in some way, or just to further display your sloppiness and penchant for polluting the information pool? Nevermind, I don't need to know. > thus quoth: > What would you know? I don't care if you think "a lot of it is > just fine" as your judgement carries no weight. You're a lazyass > > yeah, life is what happens, when you're trying to get one! > as for citations, anyone who busts my sigfile knows that > I am getting most of this hysterical stuff from my fearless leader, > Lyn. I may not be a scholar, but I try to cite my sources, > anyhow. anyway, Tarpley's work is a sure-fire cure > for that Speculative Myopia o'Bucky. > Fuller is more interested in narrating with a focus on artifacts, systems, tools. He makes this clear. As a result, a lot of proper names considered central to any ordinary history don't even make it into the book. But this isn't history in the ordinary landlubber sense but a different kind of work entirely, which begins with references to e.e. cummings. In specific, Fuller does not set out to villainize, as the design science revolution isn't about replacing the "power ins" with "power outs" in some bloody political coup or takeover. I may go further than Fuller with my technoinvective to register anti- pathies but these merely chronicle my "take" on various personages, are not meant to undercut anyone's access to a decent standard of living. Certainly George Bush and LLR don't have to be the best of friends in order for our engineering department to keep either from scaring up foot-soldiers using fear, hate or intimidation as primary motivators. Leadership based on hate and anger is not leadership. And if you're hanging around on GEODESIC to scare up a bunch of hatemongers, recruiting for your hysterical school, it'll never work. Your posing as "serious about Fuller" is transparently a ruse, an excuse you use to plague this listserv with your silly posts. The very least I can do is call you on your bullshit and make it clear (including via memos of protest to LLR and Tarpley) that I consider you an obnoxious nuisance and a PR liability to whomever you say you represent. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:52:12 +0200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Dalson Metals cc Subject: unscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the third time we are emailing our request to be taken off your mailing list. Please sign us off Geodesic. dalson@global.co.za ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:45:19 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Urner contra Hutchings... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT I've linked previous archival post contra Hutchings from my: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ku_gall.html again, my intention is to make as clearly as possible for the benefit of future scholars the point that our Fuller School in no way ever gave Brian's brand of sloppy, deadbeat scholarship any backing -- same point already made (crystal clearly) vis-a-vis the Church of Scientology. I hope Hutchings eventually matures into a credible exponent of something or other -- not my problem, not my concern, I really don't care. Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:31:29 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Repost archival (for web linking): K. Urner to B. Hutchings MESSAGE from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU 16-NOV-1998 18:02 On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:16:41 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 15-NOV-1998 16:16 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I take Bucky very seriously, but he has some limitations. clearly, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've seen no evidence of this. I refuse to take this assertion at face value. > his Brahminoid background gives him a lot of credence, Why do you say this? Sounds like you're adding credibility simply on the basis of social class. Why? Isn't that a kind of fawning sycophantishness which should rightly have no place in a purportedly democratic model? (Admittedly LLR does radiate a kind of avuncular Victorian "captain of industry" authoritarianism -- at least on the TV I've seen -- he's an old guy and I don't begrudge him for putting on airs, why not? (it's all acting, as you suggest)). > in the area of generalized of "speculative" social critique, but > it's not the sort of thing that could ever be properly footnoted; > you just have to take it as loose inspiration. To whom are you directing this advice? Why do you get to tell us how we "just have to take it"? Why should we listen? Certainly I don't regard you as a mentor. Do others? > then, there are those moments when he is just plain wrong, Duh. > or simply, utterly ignorant, if not naieve. now, if > that allegation about JFK's "class" was from VAnity Fair, We were talking about JFK's reckless behavior while in office, in ways which make Clinton's appear very tame. "Class" was not part of the thread, that I recall. "Class" is a term in computer jargon, refers to a template or blueprint on which objects are based. It makes about as much sense to group everyone by "class" as by "race" -- sloppy thinking, pseudoscience, dumbing-down social fictions. > now you know why it is a part of the "Eastern Establishment"; ^^ What is "it" in this sentence? Vanity Fair? > he *was* a class act, and none of Leary's rantings, or > Hirschfeld's "investigation" will cahnge that, except > in The National Enquirer (modeled upon the British tabloids). > Define "class act" and maybe I'd agree with you. I was making a factual observation about behavior, not about acting ability or "social class" (a dubious concept in the first place -- what was so "upscale" Joe Kennedy's line of business?). By "Hirschfeld" are you referring to Hersh? Do you mangle the name to be clever/cute in some way, or just to further display your sloppiness and penchant for polluting the information pool? Nevermind, I don't need to know. > thus quoth: > What would you know? I don't care if you think "a lot of it is > just fine" as your judgement carries no weight. You're a lazyass > > yeah, life is what happens, when you're trying to get one! > as for citations, anyone who busts my sigfile knows that > I am getting most of this hysterical stuff from my fearless leader, > Lyn. I may not be a scholar, but I try to cite my sources, > anyhow. anyway, Tarpley's work is a sure-fire cure > for that Speculative Myopia o'Bucky. > Fuller is more interested in narrating with a focus on artifacts, systems, tools. He makes this clear. As a result, a lot of proper names considered central to any ordinary history don't even make it into the book. But this isn't history in the ordinary landlubber sense but a different kind of work entirely, which begins with references to e.e. cummings. In specific, Fuller does not set out to villainize, as the design science revolution isn't about replacing the "power ins" with "power outs" in some bloody political coup or takeover. I may go further than Fuller with my technoinvective to register anti- pathies but these merely chronicle my "take" on various personages, are not meant to undercut anyone's access to a decent standard of living. Certainly George Bush and LLR don't have to be the best of friends in order for our engineering department to keep either from scaring up foot-soldiers using fear, hate or intimidation as primary motivators. Leadership based on hate and anger is not leadership. And if you're hanging around on GEODESIC to scare up a bunch of hatemongers, recruiting for your hysterical school, it'll never work. Your posing as "serious about Fuller" is transparently a ruse, an excuse you use to plague this listserv with your silly posts. The very least I can do is call you on your bullshit and make it clear (including via memos of protest to LLR and Tarpley) that I consider you an obnoxious nuisance and a PR liability to whomever you say you represent. Kirby - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 18:31 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is very confusing, getting the same thing in the mail, twice, directly from you (Kirby); I may be stupid, but I'm not crazy! anyhow, your characterization of Lyn as a fear-monger, like the ADL's of putative anti-semitism etc., is wide of the mark, but I'm sure that he'll enjoy it, in a platonic sense (or some thing .-) just one clarification: the "credence" that i give to Bucky's "history" is the one of being a Brahminoid *insider*, and nothing else; he's giving a critique of his *own* "class" (and I, at the least, know to what I am referring, just as much as Bucky might eschew it).... *you* were the one who quoted some bogus reference to JFK's so-called class, not me! --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:53:23 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: Repost archival (for web linking): K. Urner to B. Hutchings In-Reply-To: <199811170231.SAA11224@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Brian Hutchings wrote: > > I take Bucky very seriously, but he has some limitations. clearly, > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > then, there are those moments when he is just plain wrong, > ..................................................... ................ Brian,,, Would you please address the above statements with some specific examples, instead of broad sweeping claims without reference. Please include book titles and pages that you find fault with his work and experience with artifacts or philosophy. I have no problem with your challenge but specify what you think or know to be contrary to you thinking and experience. Fuller was human and liked to think aloud, but it was usually addressed as thinking or knowing, he was fond of saying that he did not "believe anything". And worked through artifacts to make his philosophy artifactually known so it could be tested against his philosophy. john belt Oswego, New York ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:06:28 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Urner contra Hutchings... MESSAGE from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU 16-NOV-1998 18:02 I've linked previous archival post contra Hutchings from my: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ku_gall.html again, my intention is to make as clearly as possible for the benefit of future scholars the point that our Fuller School in no way ever gave Brian's brand of sloppy, deadbeat scholarship any backing -- same point already made (crystal clearly) vis-a-vis the Church of Scientology. I hope Hutchings eventually matures into a credible exponent of something or other -- not my problem, not my concern, I really don't care. Kirby - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 20:06 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ... but, Headmster Urner, I'm ju-- ouch! I really don't think that my "braindead schloarship" is *so* sloppy, although it is *plenty* sloppy, like my desktop. what about the "church" of Scient., though, do you mean -- that ElRon was not a proper student of Aleister Crowley?... well, according to Elrooosh, the latter was just the local emmissary of the (latter-day, oligarch-inspired) Cult of Isis; I "blew" my second "course" in the former's local (Hollyweird) outlet, when my "supervisor" showed me ElRon's writing, that'50s USA Culture was transplanted from the planet Maldek -- I kid thee not, and it may have saved me a sum of money, as a former reader of "scifi" (and that was also in the midst of the incredibly annoying, mind-numbing "clay demos"; I guess, once you've "passed" that test, your soul is ramped onto ElRon's infinite "timetrack" !-) anyway, if you're going to be so ballsy, as to attempt a curriculum in the School o'Bucky, you'd better expect some criticism, from the serious & the foolish, alike. in any case, it occured to me that Bucky's adjuvant, KK, may actually *have* footnoted a lot of his later work, some where, if that is one of the things that an adjuvant is to do, or maybe "aem" did that, as one of his last assistants, when he was in Pacific Pallisades (with the office-dome in back of Allegra's house; this was about the time that I first came upon his work, but I didn't know that he was a local-yokel, til he "gave up the weightless, metaphysical, avuncular captain" -- to paraphrase). most of his sociophysical critique appears to have been based, though, upon his constant hobnobbing with the rich & unfamous, world-around, thus inherently unfootnotable. as for me, I am still kicking myself, for not grabbing one of _9 Chains to the Moon_, whne BFI was selling them at approx.original cost, $4.50, as I recall, but it's true that I've only *really* read much of his magnu opus, _S_. likewise, I have never programmed much of anything on The Computer, really, other than ProComm scripts in'88-or-so. however, that is a far cry from saying that I am not a serious student of either Bucky, or one of his sine-cures -- the Infallibilty of the Computer. laughably serious, perhaps, or seriously laughable, as they haul me off to "Jolly" West's basements at UCLA-NPI, but serious in my own mind . --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:20:13 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Uncle Kirby versus Uncle Brian <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 20:20 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us yes, I was referring to Sy (Seymour?) Hirsch, whose last book-for-needed-bucks was the victim of a scam, of purported documents re JFK's and RFK's celebrated "affair" with Marilyn Monroe. I'm not saying that they were sexual saints, but that virtually all of these affairs are empty say-soes, as exposed in the journal, *Probe*, recently. if you really want to know about JFK's republican "wrecklessness", read _Battling Wall Street_ (avail.from 800/453-4108, as are facsimiles of the Bush bio., which now contains an added chapter, 8b, re Nixon's "Bay of Pigs thing" of Haldeman's reference -- see the online version, below). his only wreck was the same one, that killed Oswald, the WCReport's Lone Patsy. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:42:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Repost archival (for web linking): K. Urner to B. Hutchings MESSAGE from ="List 16-NOV-1998 20:27 On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Brian Hutchings wrote: > > I take Bucky very seriously, but he has some limitations. clearly, > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > then, there are those moments when he is just plain wrong, > ..................................................... ................ Brian,,, Would you please address the above statements with some specific examples, instead of broad sweeping claims without reference. Please include book titles and pages that you find fault with his work and experience with artifacts or philosophy. I have no problem with your challenge but specify what you think or know to be contrary to you thinking and experience. Fuller was human and liked to think aloud, but it was usually addressed as thinking or knowing, he was fond of saying that he did not "believe anything". And worked through artifacts to make his philosophy artifactually known so it could be tested against his philosophy. john belt Oswego, New York - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 20:42 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us mister Belt, I have to pass the Bucky, back to you; that is, please, specify whereinatitwasthat you had "no problem", but found it necessary to have a Specific Citation to Buckarkana. else, frankly, no-one has a clue as to what in Heck, you mean, esp.*moi*. and *don't* just say, "ooh, it's the ARTIFACTS -- do you want the Patent Nos., Stupid ?!?" but, since you so-kindly ask, Yes, Sir, including the paragraph-mumbers of aforesaid patents; thank you! --The Putative Goerge "JR" Bush "Dynasty" http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:49:53 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Uncle Kirby versus Uncle Brian MESSAGE from ="List 16-NOV-1998 20:27 <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 20:20 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us yes, I was referring to Sy (Seymour?) Hirsch, whose last book-for-needed-bucks was the victim of a scam, of purported documents re JFK's and RFK's celebrated "affair" with Marilyn Monroe. I'm not saying that they were sexual saints, but that virtually all of these affairs are empty say-soes, as exposed in the journal, *Probe*, recently. if you really want to know about JFK's republican "wrecklessness", read _Battling Wall Street_ (avail.from 800/453-4108, as are facsimiles of the Bush bio., which now contains an added chapter, 8b, re Nixon's "Bay of Pigs thing" of Haldeman's reference -- see the online version, below). his only wreck was the same one, that killed Oswald, the WCReport's Lone Patsy. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 20:49 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ooh; not only that, but Hersch's book was going to be an ABC-TV Special, with the "Marilyn Thing" as the centerpiece. (please, recall that JFK was a vicitm of Addison's Dysease, whatever that is, and may not really have been "up" to so much bed-hopping; besides, Jackie Onassis was fairly hot pototo(es), perhaps, even a seductress of Great Means.) again, as to Bucky's Brahminoid Background, he was "3hT5G" !! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:55:44 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Ernie Subject: disaster recovery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe you can help some people in Honduras, reminds me of Vesuvius and Pompeii - could happen again...maybe send them some geo-domes to live in. http://www.honduras.net/help.shtml "It has not stopped raining, there are no bridges, the streets are useless, we are also without water and the electricity comes in short instances. It is unbelievable! At night MITCH was yesterday exactly upon Tegucigalpa. The truth is that I had never seen something like it. The supermarkets were full yesterday. You had to wait under rain to be able just to enter. It's incredible. The streets are like rivers. Thousands of houses fell and they continue to fall. The bridge of the Penitentiary among others fell, and a great part of that building also fell. The criminals threw themselves to the water escaped and the some police were shooting at them. In the Loarque neighborhood I saw several houses being taken, one of them with five people in the ceiling taking by a TV crew was impressive, and just to make it worst, they have had to allow water from the dams go, they were on the verge of exploding. " excerpt, from Oswaldo Dominguez in Tegucigalpa, Honduras on Saturday, October 31, 1998 6:24 AM http://www.hurricanemitch.org/ Ernie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:23:10 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action MESSAGE from ="List 15-NOV-1998 5:40 <> Brian Hutchings 15-NOV-1998 4:55 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I wasn't implying that they had a platonic, socratic NANDNOR "flaming, "gay" relationship, therein, either ... unless you know some thing about TR&JP that you should sell to Vanity Fair! as for "speculative history" a la Buckafka Fullofit [(tm), Cryocranio Trustbuddies], a lot of it is just fine, as far as it goes, and generally much better than the **** that cometh out of the Fabians at the U.of Chicago Boys (milt Friedman et al Nobelistes) ... and, So? I started programming between the 6th and 7th gradings, during summerschool at LACC, downtown on the bus, but I try to eschew the jargon; dig?... likewise, my economist-bud, Lyn, was probably working with "models", quite some time before you "or" Bucky -- possibly; ask him! thus quoth: It's a term that makes sense in Fuller's lexicon, when processed in tandem with his other key terms -- doesn't lend itself to recycling in just any analysis, as if it were a standalone component. In short, if you're just a cursory browser of Fuller's writings, don't expect LAWCAP to work for you (or Capitalism's Invisible Army either, --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 21:23 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us OK, mister Belt, here is *un quotation especifique pour vous*. as I recall, it was in _Critical Path_ (and it may have been ealier in the *ouevre*, but I wouldn't know; basically, all that I've read comes from _CP_, my first *expose au Bucky*, and from _S_, of shich I'm of that relative fistfull (or more, at this juncture) who have absorbed large portions thereof; like, you may have noticed that I was able to correct Kirby, over his minor error on "Couplers", BUT I gave my paperbound copies to the local library, in Massachussetts, many YA); therein is that wonderfully redeployed acronym of the CIA, Capitalism's Invisible Army. at this moment, for me, it's just a metaphor, since I dpon't recall any of what he *wrote* about that, in specifics, but it is really a terrible charicature, along the Fabian Socialist school of propoganda, which equates "capitalism", a very dyscriptive word in the lexicon of Gauss, with "free trade", a.k.a.the imperialism of the Briish East India Co. fortunately, Bucky's saving grace is that he wrote *enough* about the latter, as to make it clear whose "side" he was on (almost every one's .-) however, we do know that the CIA was "borne in infamy", namely having been trained, as the OSS, by Brit.Intel., and has ever-after shown those hereditary or genetical goof-ups, esp.in its covert-ops side (as in Afghanistan, which, of course, was really a thing that was [promoted by Thatcher's goonsquads, of MI6 (I think, MI5 is their "domestic" equiv.of the FBI -- which was started by Kirby's beloved TR, against the wishes of Congress), whence they left US with the reigns, and neverending putdowns by the Loyal Left). OK, here's the "technosophist definition" of "capital", the kind that evaded Marx in his _Das K._, in part owing to his Librarian-ex-spook, Farquhar: the promotion of the productive powers of labor per capita. --Whack the Bushes! http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:54:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 21:54 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I don't know, by the way, that the "ism" was used by Gauss, although I'm really, really sure that "capital" was. as for the "breeteesh commonwellth", as they now euphamize it, the Mujahideen, who are now Earth's premier terrorists, were just another of their "great game" gamesmanships, *geopolitics*, in line with their pet authors, like Huntington's _Clash of Civilizations_, as first-promoted in their (local) house journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, as so-called Islamic nutcases. are you satisified, somewhat, mister Belt, now? --give your money to Webster! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:07:13 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action MESSAGE from =MAILER-DAEMON@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us 16-NOV-1998 22:05 This is a MIME-encapsulated message --WAA12681.911282672/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us The original message was received at Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:04:31 -0800 from r001806@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- geodesic@listserv.acsu.bffalo.edu ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 geodesic@listserv.acsu.bffalo.edu... Host unknown (Name server: listserv.acsu.bffalo.edu: host not found) --WAA12681.911282672/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Arrival-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:04:31 -0800 Final-Recipient: RFC822; geodesic@listserv.acsu.bffalo.edu Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; listserv.acsu.bffalo.edu Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:04:32 -0800 --WAA12681.911282672/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: (from r001806@localhost) by pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA12679 for geodesic@listserv.acsu.bffalo.edu; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:04:31 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:04:31 -0800 From: Brian Hutchings Message-Id: <199811170604.WAA12679@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> To: geodesic@listserv.acsu.bffalo.edu Subject: Re: Impending Iraqi Action <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 22:04 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us whoops;one last note. what the monetarist b*z*s promote as capitalism, is really just money, the making of money, or the *love* of money, as a "metric equivalent of power"; or, in the case of Al Greenspan, "disciple" of Ayn Rand, he is printing the stuff "up" at an astonishing rate, now, of over 16%, annualized for the past few months, in order to save his friends gigantic bubble of derivatives, just as he just led the bail-out of LTCM, "la casa des nobelistas" -- that is to say, at levels that are pre-hyper-inflationary, leaing into "post-Weimar Republic" type problems; dig? --give your money to Webster! http://www.tarpley.net --WAA12681.911282672/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us-- <> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 22:07 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 02:18:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Honduras and Marilyn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE11D0.98DDE020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE11D0.98DDE020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ernie, Great idea. I heard the President of Honduras point out that now = they have many unemployed and many homeless. Sounds like the perfect recipe for some Hondurans to start creating = their own dome homes to me. They've got plenty of wood. and a lamitated = hard wood would make incredibly strong domes. They won't need much = insulation. The US Army CB's have landed (There goes the neighborhood, = they're so generously going to build a much needed Army base. While = thousands starve.) (Fucking spineless asshole Clinton) But there is a = good oppurtunity for an industry to mass produced domes for world = consumption except of course you have to factor in the CIA (Capitolists = Invisible Army) placed 'corrupted' (Now Nafta driven) banana industry. = Clever how I worked CIA into that uh? Brian, The British MI5 is the same as the US FBI, (Both are anti = insurgency units) except the MI5 saddist get to blow more holes in more = babys. FBI (HRT) 'Hostage Rescue Team' snipers are probably envious as = all fuck. MI6 is the same as CIA. The connection of MI6 I bet is more = through US Naval Intellengence since the US naval intellegence was = modeled after HM navy. US naval intellegence was far more mature than = any other intelligence service prior to WW2. One you might want study up = on is CENTAC (If you're not already familiar with it). CENTAC was the = pilot program for the DEA. The DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) is = basically the new CIA. Bucky wasn't kidding when he pointed that drugs = were/are used as a weapon in the cold/cooled off some war.=20 Not only that but Marilyn Monroe wasn't involved with the Kennedy's is = was really J. Edger Hoover, real name John Edger Hoover aka "Jedger" = aka "Mary" trying on 'Clyde's Secret' wear. 'Clyde's Secret' was later = changed to Victoria's Secret. hahahaha. =20 Hi, (National Security Agency) NSA!!!! Don't you guys get bored reading = stuff like this? look the word 'Plutonium'. And I'm not even a French = arms merchant. It was really the acronym CENTAC wasn't it?=20 Trevor, thanks for posting the info that this is more than just a thread = about building personal domes. And I'd like to add that I've noticed = when somebody does ask about a dome thing it gets quite often answered. = =20 What's this about building a ten mile diameter dome and walking to zero = G? I guess I should have stayed in College.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE11D0.98DDE020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ernie, Great idea. I heard the = President of=20 Honduras point out that now they have many unemployed and many=20 homeless.

Sounds like the perfect recipe = for some=20 Hondurans to start creating their own dome homes to me. They've got = plenty of=20 wood. and a lamitated hard wood would make incredibly strong domes. They = won't=20 need much insulation. The US Army CB's have landed (There goes the = neighborhood,=20 they're so generously going to build a much needed Army base. While = thousands=20 starve.) (Fucking spineless asshole Clinton) But there is a good = oppurtunity for=20 an industry to mass produced domes for world consumption except of = course you=20 have to factor in the CIA (Capitolists Invisible Army) placed = 'corrupted' (Now=20 Nafta driven) banana industry. Clever how I worked CIA into that=20 uh?

Brian, The British MI5 is the same = as the US=20 FBI, (Both are anti insurgency units) except the MI5 saddist get = to blow=20 more holes in more babys. FBI (HRT) 'Hostage Rescue Team' snipers are = probably=20 envious as all fuck. MI6 is the same as CIA. The connection of MI6 I bet = is more=20 through US Naval Intellengence since the US naval intellegence was = modeled after=20 HM navy. US naval intellegence was far more mature than any other = intelligence=20 service prior to WW2. One you might want study up on is CENTAC (If = you're not=20 already familiar with it). CENTAC was the pilot program for the DEA. The = DEA=20 (Drug Enforcement Agency) is basically the new CIA. Bucky wasn't kidding = when he=20 pointed that drugs were/are used as a weapon in the cold/cooled off some = war.=20

Not only that but Marilyn Monroe = wasn't involved=20 with the Kennedy's is was really J. Edger Hoover, real name John = Edger=20 Hoover aka "Jedger" aka "Mary" trying on = 'Clyde's=20 Secret' wear. 'Clyde's Secret' was later changed to Victoria's Secret.=20 hahahaha.

Hi, (National Security Agency) NSA!!!! Don't you = guys get=20 bored reading stuff like this? look the word 'Plutonium'. And I'm not = even a=20 French arms merchant. It was really the acronym CENTAC wasn't it? =

Trevor, thanks for posting the info = that this is=20 more than just a thread about building personal domes. And I'd like to = add that=20 I've noticed when somebody does ask about a dome thing it gets quite = often=20 answered.

What's this about building a ten = mile diameter=20 dome and walking to zero G? I guess I should have stayed in College.=20

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE11D0.98DDE020-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 02:36:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: the impacted bowel of spookology <> Brian Hutchings 17-NOV-1998 2:36 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oh, CENTAC; OK, man, what ever you say is So (and, Boy!, is it a creepy, small world -- hopefully with at *least* 6 degrees of separation ... via acquaintances, if not blood-relations !-) --give Webster your money (and I'll accept a tip) !! http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:13:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: But it's true Unky Brian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE11E0.B37CCE40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE11E0.B37CCE40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's true Unky Brian. James Mills wrote a book titled "The Underground = Empire" about CENTAC and Bucky pointed out about the drugs as weapons in = "Cosmography" I'll have to look it up.=20 OK I lied about Clyde Tolson's Leingerie business.=20 Spaceship Earth, Aerogell is being tested with bucky balls now. = Nanotubes will replace it. or something along the lines of a nanotube = mesh (Nanotubes are elongated buckyballs). It'll work great for inflated = bubble domes. The one I have in mind for Mars will be inflated, like a = bubble being blown from a giant bubble ring. The bubble ring will be = made by nano robots out of Martian dirt. Soil is a misnomer when used to = describe the dust and rocks of Mars or the dust and rock of the Moon. = Soil isn't just dirt but biologically active dirt.=20 http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/images/marsdome1.GIF The movement of the soil from the fertile mountains of Honduras to the = flatter areas will reguvinate the already depleted soil to grow our = beloved bananas. Marilyn liked babanas a lot, almost as much as = barbiturates and alcohol. Jedger for that matter, liked bananas a lot = more. If I could write gooder, I'd write people in Honduras and present them = with the idea of creating an industry of building domes. Just think = maybe the "Livingry Industrial complex" might just get a real foothold = in a place and situation like that. I'm working on an illustration for a Dessert dome. One in the Southwest. = The US backed off of Iraq because of the possibility that one of the DPS = satellites might get knocked out from the meteor shower. Can you image = how awefull it would be if some piss ant 'Paper' General missed some of = the live action shots, because one of the satellites got knocked out of = commission. Clintons got a penis thing going on with cruise missiles. He's never = served in the military but he sure likes to serve the military.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE11E0.B37CCE40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's true Unky Brian. James Mills = wrote a book=20 titled "The Underground Empire" about CENTAC and Bucky pointed = out=20 about the drugs as weapons in "Cosmography" I'll have to look = it up.=20

OK I lied about Clyde Tolson's = Leingerie=20 business.

Spaceship Earth, Aerogell is being = tested with=20 bucky balls now. Nanotubes will replace it. or something along the lines = of a=20 nanotube mesh (Nanotubes are elongated buckyballs). It'll work great for = inflated bubble domes. The one I have in mind for Mars will be inflated, = like a=20 bubble being blown from a giant bubble ring. The bubble ring will be = made by=20 nano robots out of Martian dirt. Soil is a misnomer when used to = describe the=20 dust and rocks of Mars or the dust and rock of the Moon. Soil isn't just = dirt=20 but biologically active dirt.

http= ://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/images/marsdome1.GIF

The movement of the soil from the = fertile=20 mountains of Honduras to the flatter areas will reguvinate the already = depleted=20 soil to grow our beloved bananas. Marilyn liked babanas a lot, almost as = much as=20 barbiturates and alcohol. Jedger for that matter, liked bananas a lot=20 more.

If I could write gooder, I'd write = people in=20 Honduras and present them with the idea of creating an industry of = building=20 domes. Just think maybe the "Livingry Industrial complex" = might just=20 get a real foothold in a place and situation like that.

I'm working on an illustration for a Dessert dome. = One in the=20 Southwest.

The US backed off of Iraq because of = the=20 possibility that one of the DPS satellites might get knocked out from = the meteor=20 shower. Can you image how awefull it would be if some piss ant 'Paper' = General=20 missed some of the live action shots, because one of the satellites got = knocked=20 out of commission.

Clintons got a penis thing going on = with cruise=20 missiles. He's never served in the military but he sure likes to serve = the=20 military.
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE11E0.B37CCE40-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:33:17 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Uncle Kirby versus Uncle Brian In-Reply-To: <199811170420.UAA11936@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:20:13 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 16-NOV-1998 20:20 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > yes, I was referring to Sy (Seymour?) Hirsch, > whose last book-for-needed-bucks was the victim of a scam, > of purported documents re JFK's and RFK's celebrated "affair" > with Marilyn Monroe. I'm not saying that they were sexual saints, but > that virtually all of these affairs are empty say-soes, > as exposed in the journal, *Probe*, recently. All I could find at the *Probe* website was a trashing of Sy's book prior to its release. A lot of ad hominem attacks re his just doing it for the money (to me Sy seems more honestly curious about his world, although likely the money doesn't hurt either) with much made of the forged documents that had to be retracted in the process of coming up with final copy (a story even the major networks carried). Perhaps you've seen something more recent? In any case, it's not like *Probe* authors don't have an agenda of their own, clearly revealed at every turn. At least they're up front about it. Sounds like this group is basically symapathetic to the Oliver Stone line that the assassination was owing to JFK's very progressive approach to Vietnam and Cuba -- at least one author, James DiEugenio, puts blame for the anti-Castro plots more on Helms and sees the CIA as the baddy behind it all (not an unpopular view -- RBF certainly gives the CIA a run for its money in GofG)).[1][2] If you're aware of a book review in *Probe* that actually goes into the material by page number, please let me know and I'll check again (just couldn't find anything like that). Note: RBF had a lot of affairs too. Scholarship will be much easier in this case (or should be) because he kept meticulous records of all of Guinea Pig B's doings in the chronofile. > if you really want to know about JFK's republican "wrecklessness", > read _Battling Wall Street_ (avail.from 800/453-4108, > as are facsimiles of the Bush bio., which now contains an added chapter, > 8b, re Nixon's "Bay of Pigs thing" of Haldeman's reference -- > see the online version, below). his only wreck was the same one, > that killed Oswald, the WCReport's Lone Patsy. > Which contains the added chapter, the bio or _Battling Wall Street_? I've read the former, as you know. Speaking of Nixon, note that Sy's book is not any kinder to him. Kirby [1] "Which brings us to the nineties. Everyone knows that the broad release of Oliver Stone�s JFK in 1992 put the Kennedy assassination back into play. The pre-release attack against the film was unprecedented in movie history. That�s because it was more than just a movie. It was a message, with powerful political overtones that dug deeply into the public psyche: a grand political conspiracy had killed the last progressive president. That Vietnam would have never happened if Kennedy had lived. That JFK was working for accommodation with Castro at the time of his death. That the country has not really been the same since." Vol. 5. No. 1 November-December, 1997 Cover story: The Posthumous Assassination of JFK Part II Sy Hersh and the Monroe/JFK Papers: The History of a Thirty-Year Hoax by Jim DiEugenio http://www.webcom.com/~ctka/pr1197-jfk.html [2] In other words, the alchemy of John Davis with Bissell helps get Helms off the hook for responsibility for the continuing unauthorized plots. And Helms needs all the help he can get. When John McCone (Kennedy�s replacement CIA Director) expressly forbade any assassination plots, Helms said he couldn�t remember the meeting (Ibid, p. 166). When evidence was advanced that, in direct opposition to Bobby�s wishes, Helms continued the Castro plots and allowed an operative to use RFK�s name in doing so, Helms said he didn�t remember doing that either (Ibid p. 174). On the day that RFK met with CIA officials to make it clear there would be no more unauthorized plots against Castro, Kennedy�s calendar reads as follows: "1:00 -- Richard Helms." Helms could not recall the meeting (Ibid p. 131). With this much to explain away, Helms must have poured coffee for Davis the day they met. Vol. 5. No. 1 November-December, 1997 Cover story: The Posthumous Assassination of JFK Part II Sy Hersh and the Monroe/JFK Papers: The History of a Thirty-Year Hoax by Jim DiEugenio http://www.webcom.com/~ctka/pr1197-jfk.html Note that Davis in the above is John Davis, author of "The Kennedys: Dynasty and Disaster 1848-1983" (1984) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:30:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Desert dome - Honduras MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE123F.307D24E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE123F.307D24E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wonder who served William Casey coffee? Anyways The Desert dome couldn't be inflated to keep it's shape. Mr Fuller = visialised a giant dome made by rocketing it into space then spin = opening it, then somehow stimulating the molecules composing the = structure to maintain it's shape, electricaly. (Damn aweful close to a = nanotech). Then the fully opened dome would be retrorocketed back in to = Earth. With the advent of Bucky tubes (Nanotubes) And old idea I had = awhile back might be more easily achieved, that is peizio generated = electric power from the motion of the dome as it sits on the ground and = is flexed by wind and thermal (Sun) gradients. Probably not a lot of = electric power but some.=20 Back to Earth. Laminated hardwoods are also superior to steel beams during a fire. = Steel beams bend in a fire; hampering, somtimes lethaly, rescue efforts. = And fire outing efforts. And causing even more damage from the = mechanically failed structure. I'm guessing now and I'll check into it = deeper but regrowth of central American forests is a lot faster than say = the North American forest or the Siberian forests. Plus I would imagine = a lot fewer lives would have been lost if people could have been = notified of the oncoming waters. A form of communication and education = system needs to be addressed. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE123F.307D24E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I wonder who served William Casey=20 coffee?

Anyways

The Desert dome couldn't be inflated = to keep=20 it's shape. Mr Fuller visialised a giant dome made by rocketing it into = space=20 then spin opening it, then somehow stimulating the molecules composing = the=20 structure to maintain it's shape, electricaly. (Damn aweful close to a=20 nanotech). Then the fully opened dome would be retrorocketed back in to = Earth.=20 With the advent of Bucky tubes (Nanotubes) And old idea I had awhile = back might=20 be more easily achieved, that is peizio generated electric power from = the motion=20 of the dome as it sits on the ground and is flexed by wind and thermal = (Sun)=20 gradients. Probably not a lot of electric power but = some.

Back to Earth.

Laminated hardwoods are also = superior to steel=20 beams during a fire. Steel beams bend in a fire; hampering, somtimes = lethaly,=20 rescue efforts. And fire outing efforts. And causing even more damage = from the=20 mechanically failed structure. I'm guessing now and I'll check into it = deeper=20 but regrowth of central American forests is a lot faster than say the = North=20 American forest or the Siberian forests. Plus I would imagine a lot = fewer lives=20 would have been lost if people could have been notified of the oncoming = waters.=20 A form of communication and education system needs to be = addressed.

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE123F.307D24E0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:49:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: The spook who knew too little of Mars. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE125B.07F25B00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE125B.07F25B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kirby, and anyone else who may be interested. Have you read the book, = "The man who knew too much"? It was written by Dick Russell, published = in 1992. It's about a guy named Richard Case Nagell who was supposedly = hired to kill Lee Harvey Oswald and prevent the assassination of JFK. = This book goes into a lot of stuff.=20 The Mars dome image I posted earlier is depicting two domes both of = approximately one mile in diameter at the point where they touch the = surface of the planet. The dome in the foreground will be pressurized to = sea level Earth pressure: about 14.7 lbs/sq inch. The solar energy = gathering dome can be less pressurized. The dome over the solar cells is = to help shed the Mars dust. The Mars rover that landed July 4th of last = year had problems with Mars dust sticking to the solar panels on the = rover itself, causing a lack of power to the robot. Also the dust showed = magnetic properties. The installation as depicted will be completely = built by remote and autonomous control before any people step foot on = Mars. The initial nanobots will be sent by one US, Saturn V rocket or = Russian Proton rocket equivilent, with some start up materials. Water = maybe found at a few kilometers or less below the surface of Mars. = Carbon, for bucky tubes etc., is aboundant in the atmosephere of Mars. = (It's mostly C02.) And yes this as to do with Earthian design science. = Comparitive planatary science as already contributed to the understading = of local Earthian systems.=20 Back home: In the PBS ducumentary "Cadilac Desert" desalinization of sea water is = tauted as expensive and energy intensive. They showed only the reverse = osmosis, technology. How liberal of them. But it still was a very = interesting ducu. Thanks Mark =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE125B.07F25B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kirby, and anyone else who may be = interested.=20 Have you read the book, "The man who knew too much"? It was = written by=20 Dick Russell, published in 1992. It's about a guy named Richard Case = Nagell who=20 was supposedly hired to kill Lee Harvey Oswald and prevent the = assassination of=20 JFK. This book goes into a lot of stuff.

The Mars dome image I posted earlier = is=20 depicting two domes both of approximately one mile in diameter at the = point=20 where they touch the surface of the planet. The dome in the foreground = will be=20 pressurized to sea level Earth pressure: about 14.7 lbs/sq inch. The = solar=20 energy gathering dome can be less pressurized. The dome over the solar = cells is=20 to help shed the Mars dust. The Mars rover that landed July 4th of last = year had=20 problems with Mars dust sticking to the solar panels on the rover = itself,=20 causing a lack of power to the robot. Also the dust showed magnetic = properties.=20 The installation as depicted will be completely built by remote and = autonomous=20 control before any people step foot on Mars. The initial nanobots will = be sent=20 by one US, Saturn V rocket or Russian Proton rocket equivilent, with = some start=20 up materials. Water maybe found at a few kilometers or less below the = surface of=20 Mars. Carbon, for bucky tubes etc., is aboundant in the = atmosephere of=20 Mars. (It's mostly C02.) And yes this as to do with Earthian design = science.=20 Comparitive planatary science as already contributed to the understading = of=20 local Earthian systems.

Back home:

In the PBS ducumentary "Cadilac = Desert" desalinization of sea water is tauted as expensive and = energy=20 intensive. They showed only the reverse osmosis, technology. How liberal = of=20 them. But it still was a very interesting ducu.

Thanks Mark

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE125B.07F25B00-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:14:10 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Desert dome - Honduras <> Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-1998 2:14 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Bucky suggested laminars for machine-tool bases e.g., although the warping can be supercritical, even so, without metal, but I really don't know. there's always adaptive benches & jigs, I guess. as for tropical growth, certainly, but that is especially prone to loss of mineralization, since there's very little "corpromass" as in temperate forests. there was an article in the LATimes about the narcoes, slashing & burning for a few crops pf coca & opium, thence turned to grass & cattle (also reported, that much of the illegal labor in Calif.and Northwest is doing, presumably (I guess) with "slash & fall", hyperhemp. thus quoth: deeper but regrowth of central American forests is a lot faster than say = the North American forest or the Siberian forests. Plus I would imagine = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:30:01 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Capitalist <> Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-1998 2:30 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I didn't grok your characterizzation, Kirby, of that Probe thing, but I was glad to know that it's available in fulltext (?), therein. unfortuneately, I was trying to quote it with a Mac from IE into Telnet, and it wouldn't work worth crap (although it was fine, with Netscape). in any case, it is far better to let DiEugenio speak for (or to) himself: just look, in your "above" citation of "part 2", in the first few paragraphs, starting with "the 3 main threads", just going for 2 paragraphs to the subhead (like) "Looking for Kennedy (and Never Finding Him)" -- which includes the linkage to part 1, if desired. it seems clear, from just that much, that, however much Sy has ever done good "investigative j.", he was just a big ol'who'fo'ABC/CapCities/Disneyspace, another in a long line of steam-puffed garbage, primarily intended to obfuscate the obvious, that there was a "vast downwing conspiracy" to off the Pres., and then cover that the Hell up. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:37:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Capitalist MESSAGE from ="List 18-NOV-1998 2:45 <> Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-1998 2:30 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I didn't grok your characterizzation, Kirby, of that Probe thing, but I was glad to know that it's available in fulltext (?), therein. unfortuneately, I was trying to quote it with a Mac from IE into Telnet, and it wouldn't work worth crap (although it was fine, with Netscape). in any case, it is far better to let DiEugenio speak for (or to) himself: just look, in your "above" citation of "part 2", in the first few paragraphs, starting with "the 3 main threads", just going for 2 paragraphs to the subhead (like) "Looking for Kennedy (and Never Finding Him)" -- which includes the linkage to part 1, if desired. it seems clear, from just that much, that, however much Sy has ever done good "investigative j.", he was just a big ol'who'fo'ABC/CapCities/Disneyspace, another in a long line of steam-puffed garbage, primarily intended to obfuscate the obvious, that there was a "vast downwing conspiracy" to off the Pres., and then cover that the Hell up. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-1998 3:37 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I'm sorry, to turn people off with this stuff, who were only concerend witht the Transcendentalist sweetness- and-lite; if you want to be a Reuters Yahoo! ((tm) in the Swiftian charicature, and ignore "politics" as you wait for the adaptive technolgies (nano-nano) etc.deploy around you, like some UN-induced Manna from the interstellar cargo-culture -- and allow a zombie like George Wuss Bush to re-establish his horrible father's regime, or "pop dynasty" of ultimate , Malthusian austerity ?!? I got that issue of Probe, on first sight, at a New Age bookstore, amidst the insatiable mind**** of Blavatsky, astrology ... it's making me tired, just thinking about MacLuhan and the Church of the Subgenius. if you Sy peddling his ware on the street, please, bitch-slap him a few rounds for me. likewise, if you make the :orbital determination" of Timothy Leary's butt -- and all of that NO pollution that he's leaked all over the space! you owe us a favor; *we* got rid of Sir George, and, now, it's time for a follow-up, maybe a show-down, with the best feet forward against these perfectly genocidal maniacs. do not allow Bucky's self-protective myopia, which allowed him to give you the *metaphors* about his Brahmaniac background, upon which to cogitate, to lose the initiative to cause Clinton, the Rhodes-scholar-who-really/metaphorically-did-not-inhale- the-cornucopia-of-****-that-was-surely-avaiable, excpet for some skunkweed with his American buddy, the "Bolshevik Dwarf" and later Secty.of Labor -- he didn't *finish* Cecil Rhodes' mindrinsing programme, folks! -- to make Clinton get off of his Tinny Blare-induced male-bondwagon, and do what he should do, aside from servicing Blair -- "Let's You and Saddam fight, Bill!" -- in Blair's service to the Privy Council. may you be aware taht you live in very interesting times. --American Caligula http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:18:10 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hal mc whinnie Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Capitalist maybe monica lewinsky had an abortion last december, how could one find out about it? -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hutchings Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 9:39 AM Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Capitalist ><> Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-1998 2:30 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I didn't grok your characterizzation, Kirby, > of that Probe thing, but I was glad to know that > it's available in fulltext (?), therein. > unfortuneately, I was trying to quote it > with a Mac from IE into Telnet, and it wouldn't work > worth crap (although it was fine, with Netscape). in any case, > it is far better to let DiEugenio speak for (or to) himself: > just look, in your "above" citation of "part 2", > in the first few paragraphs, starting with "the 3 main threads", > just going for 2 paragraphs to the subhead (like) > "Looking for Kennedy (and Never Finding Him)" -- > which includes the linkage to part 1, if desired. > it seems clear, from just that much, that, > > however much Sy has ever done good "investigative j.", > he was just a big ol'who'fo'ABC/CapCities/Disneyspace, > another in a long line of steam-puffed garbage, > primarily intended to obfuscate the obvious, > that there was a "vast downwing conspiracy" to off the Pres., and > then cover that the Hell up. > > --The Duke of Oil > http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:32:01 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Capitalist In-Reply-To: <199811181030.CAA25008@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:30:01 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-1998 2:30 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I didn't grok your characterizzation, Kirby, Dunno why, I was clear: Probe likes the Oliver Stone message. Anyway, I've chatted with at least one of these Probers before. DejaNews probably chronicles my brief exchange with Lisa Pease. The Prouty website (maintained by Len Osanic) links to both hers and mine. Prouty's site mentions Bucky Fuller on the banner page and his book "JFK" makes numerious references, including to RBF's "Critical Path" as "an important book". Prouty was the model for Stone's Donald Sutherland character Man X in the movie "JFK". > of that Probe thing, but I was glad to know that > it's available in fulltext (?), therein. Some sample articles online free -- complete index. > it is far better to let DiEugenio speak for (or to) himself: Has he written any definitive JFK books himself I wonder? Easier to sit on the sidelines and carp about what others have done. He seems to make fun of people for having points of view at all (if different from his), as if there's some- thing wrong or tacky about Sy being wide-eyed about some of the info he was uncovering (or thought he was, in the case of forgeries). > just look, in your "above" citation of "part 2", > in the first few paragraphs, starting with "the 3 main threads", > just going for 2 paragraphs to the subhead (like) > "Looking for Kennedy (and Never Finding Him)" -- > which includes the linkage to part 1, if desired. > it seems clear, from just that much, that, > > however much Sy has ever done good "investigative j.", > he was just a big ol'who'fo'ABC/CapCities/Disneyspace, > another in a long line of steam-puffed garbage, > primarily intended to obfuscate the obvious, > that there was a "vast downwing conspiracy" to off the Pres., and > then cover that the Hell up. > Sy doesn't get into the assassination part much. To read his book in conjunction with Prouty's "JFK" (for example), which insists on a conspiracy (but w/o buying Garrison's version, even though Oliver Stone admires them both), is to discover no irreconcilable contradictions at the level of fact (that I've been able to find at least). Seems to me DiEugenio took a lot of cheap shots at people in that article, making the most of whatever might allow him to skirt dealing deeper issues raised by some of his targets -- a somewhat cowardly game. His journalism certainly didn't impress me as any better researched or more clearly to the point than Sy's -- quite the contrary. He's got the volume turned way up and sounds kinda shrill in a lot of places (reminiscent of LLR when he hits those high notes). Maybe you're one of those who mistakes "loud and full of little factiods" with "serious- minded" (lots do). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:55:58 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: C60, Jitterbug? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE130B.EEDA3B40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE130B.EEDA3B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was reading where the Bucky ball can be compreesed 70 % or so and when = it is it's then twice as hard as diamond. Does that mean the C60, since = it's a truncated icosahedron is jitterbugging? The octahedron is the = 'habit' shape of diamond.=20 Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE130B.EEDA3B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was reading where the Bucky ball = can be=20 compreesed 70 % or so and when it is it's then twice as hard as diamond. = Does=20 that mean the C60, since it's a truncated icosahedron is jitterbugging? = The=20 octahedron is the 'habit' shape of diamond.

Mark
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE130B.EEDA3B40-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:24:12 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain <> Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-1998 17:24 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us wow, you can be real adhominemaniac, yourself, as in your final wet noodel, proposing that I might be impressed with "lots of factoids"; journalism can be *such* a recipe for hash. Kirby, as for Jim DiE., I think he's the publisher of Probe, of which I bought that one copy, but I did not re-read the online version of p2, except to the first subhead, so t so that my Sterling Impression is months-old. let's take some of your character-studies of this media-zoo to task, but firslty, it's important to note that long-invested authors, like DiE., in the cottage-industry of this stuff, are not (mostly) rich, unlike a popular author like Sy, who aparently is a spendthrift, also. you could even say that they were often motivated by such notions as justice & patrtiotism ... ah, let me digress on a *local* exemplar. Robert Grodin has compiled the bulk of the available photographic evidence available in book and video and maybe CD, as a self-trained forensics guy. he was called-in to the local Muni Court, to be one of OJ's expert-witnesses to shoot-down some phoney pix from the National Enquirer, of "OJ modelling Dumb Ass (tm) Shoes"; unfortunately, Judjge Fujisaki did not *allow* the photographs to be so-examined in court, which served the purpose of making Grodin, in hte LATimes e.g., look like just a money-grubbing "conpsiracy theorist" nutcase, and furthering the ends of the High Cabal (as Bucky and Proutty refer), adding their weight to the effort to pulverize the lump-under-rug of the WCReport. to get back to DiE., to say that he "likes the Stone message" is to put the cart a mile in front of the horse. I have not seen *any* of the JFK "trilogy", but I also like the Stone message, since it's based upon well-tested research, of Garrison's case, Proutty's inside knowledge as a Cabinet-level intelligence-liaison and participant in Eisenhower's security in Mexico City. (actually, as I've probably before-noted, JFK-the-movie was based upon the script of one of the few who've made some bucks, Mark Lane, who succesfully destoryed E.Howard Hunt's libel case re the JFKA; however, after the script was leaked to the press, and the witch-hunts began, Stone was pressured to remove some things, and Lane refused to have his name on the rewrite. as for "Sy's research being as good as Jim's", there appears to be an implication that you've read the former's, which I did not note, bfore; eh? (anyway, please, incluide the links to both, if you still have them; I don't.) as for Lyn's shrill notes, maybe, you are just inadeuqtely trained in the art of *bel canto* -- he wrote the book on it! --American Caligula http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:58:28 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: oops-FLASH: recent (not really Kennedy) stuff, first-on-air <> Brian Hutchings 19-NOV-1998 0:58 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us wow, flash: if you're in the SoCal area, Roy of Hollywood is playing #3 in the "trilogy" of Proutty's on JFKA -- the "High Cabal" part, with refs to RBFmeister! KPFK-FM 90.7 MHz. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:04:26 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: 1989 world-embracing design science revolution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found this interesting paragraph at http://venkman.media.mit.edu/assign1.answers.html on a page titled MAS100 Puzzler 1 Answers (I don't know what that's all about). It says it was Submitted by Douglas Hudson (a student or former student at MIT whose linked page is no longer good). I plan to incorporat the premise of this in a page titled "Yahoo! Information Wants to Be Free." Is humanities unused potential so great that a bunch of Yahoos can save the world? You bet! This is the story of life-digital as well as digital life: Bits are bits. Bits are. Bits of what I have to say form a story. Store your patience, a connection to the digital world is there. There was a man. The man was a builder, a builder of ideas, a builder of structures, of art. An architect: By 1980, the man noticed the fact that the new generation, those then under ten, were born in a new era. Earth was a whole place for this new generation. Generally to them, to us, to me, a picture of this place from space, the fact that man had been to the moon, was commonplace. Confounding, amazing, but an accepted fact of life and part of our consciousness. Conscious of our outside-of-earth-success, the depth of our inside-of-earth-failure in the "social-economic-psychological" world has left us asking what next. The man gave this new generation, a "Moon-ferry-over conditioned" generation, a goal. Going towards the future, this is what he said: By 1989 those successful Moon-ferry-over conditioned, thoughtful young ones will be twenty. That's just the right age for commanding and executing the 1989 world-embracing design science revolution, which will result in the conversion of all humanity into an integrated, omniharmonious, economically successful, one-world family. The man died recently. Much of the memory of the man has died. But his ideas have not. In 1989, at CERN, the first project proposal for an interlinked hypertext document system for the Internet was published. The world wide web was in gestation, as an idea-and-thought-connecting-medium, where, unlike past connectors which had physicallity but, with rare (and economically motivated) distribution, this connector could be used by many, and would, with a proper childhood, be able to communicate the senses together (sight-sound-touch-documents) to and from many at once. This child is now seven years old, and we have a world-consciousness of this "world-embracing design science revolution." Revolving like a network of ideas, a world-idea-problem-solving-connection-structure to take the next step, to take humanity into inside-and-outside-of-earth-success in full. Fuller, in the last years of his life, predicted how we would take the next step. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:28:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: 1989 world-embracing design science revolution <> Brian Hutchings 19-NOV-1998 10:28 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you're 7yo, or are you referring to your *inner* child? seriously, I grok the wonder of Thous Art a Verb, Yahoo!ing, but we have to concoct a new socioballistical category for you, or the dead page or 7yo, Artist-Fruitcake (of course, I'm just being a joker-jerk, and I'm sure that you'll be able to keep your virtual panites on .-) the undead MIT student is very complacent, with his hypothesized "Moon-ferry-over condition", although certainly a central element of Bucky's critical trajectorization (a-hem), because *le Programme d'Espace* is virtually kaput. if you can believe Art Bell's Kwikning, many more folks believe in the secret-space-alien goment, than do in the dead-end Moon Shot -- even though it's primarily a cover-up of Sir George's actual, still-operative "secret, parallel goment" ... whose "proceedings" are now being satellite-fed to me via KPFK-FM, which, after a brief glitch, I hear Porno Starr's melifluous voice for the first time, perjuring himself over the connections between Madison Guarantee S&L and Whitewater Trust (as Bush's Solicitor General, he set that up, by squashing an internal investigation of the Res.Trust.Corp., which itself is the "Great Train Robbery" that is being covered-up; just recall the name, L.Jean Lewis; thank you). if you wish to associate Yosef! with Yahoo! (tm), just remember that, whatever the intentions of its youthful iventors, it has become a "portal" for Reuters (tm), a.k.a.Ye Olde Coloniale Weird Service, and mouthpiece for the euphamistical Commonwealth. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:41:11 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: 1989 world-embracing design science revolution <> Brian Hutchings 19-NOV-1998 10:41 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I am not, though, dysputing the "demographic" o'Bucky; it's just that the "confounding" part is so pre-eminent, and Bucky's self-protective myopia re "nationalism" and "capitalism" and so on, was never much of help. thus quoth: that man had been to the moon, was commonplace. Confounding, amazing, but an accepted fact of life and part of our consciousness. Conscious of "social-economic-psychological" world has left us asking what next. The man gave this new generation, a "Moon-ferry-over conditioned" generation, a goal Going towards the future, this is what he said: By 1989 those successful Moon-ferry-over conditioned, thoughtful young ones will be twenty. That's ju the right age for commanding and executing the 1989 world-embracing design --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:31:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain of Industry <> Brian Hutchings 19-NOV-1998 11:31 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us dear Friends; if the apparent shock-value of some of this stuff has not blown *every* one off of geodesic-L, then we may be OK (as you could tell, from some of the plausibly knee-jerk reaction, dysbelief can quickly be follo by fear of this submerged power-elite, or what ever). http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:57:46 GMT Reply-To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain In-Reply-To: <199811190124.RAA00082@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:24:12 -0800, you wrote: ><> Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-1998 17:24 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > wow, you can be real adhominemaniac, yourself, as in your final wet noodel, > proposing that I might be impressed with "lots of factoids"; > journalism can be *such* a recipe for hash. Of course I can. I seriously disrespect your output to the internet -- obvious no? Your stuff really sucks Bri. Really low grade, crummy, garbage quality. > Kirby, as for Jim DiE., > I think he's the publisher of Probe, of which I bought that one copy, but > I did not re-read the online version of p2, except to the first subhead, so t > so that my Sterling Impression is months-old. Lots of your stuff is obsolete and under-researched -- doesn't keep you from rehashing it and offering it up half-baked, leaving it for others to do all the work of sorting through to find out if anything's still ticking. > let's take some of your character-studies of this media-zoo to task, but > firslty, it's important to note that long-invested authors, like DiE., > in the cottage-industry of this stuff, are not (mostly) rich, > unlike a popular author like Sy, who aparently is a spendthrift, also. The bank accounts of these respective authors seems entirely irrelevant. To be under funded doesn't make anyone an heroic under dog ipso facto, just as having plenty of money is no proof of either character or smarts. > you could even say that they were often motivated by such notions > as justice & patrtiotism ... ah, let me digress on a *local* exemplar. > Robert Grodin has compiled the bulk of the available photographic evidence > available in book and video and maybe CD, as a self-trained forensics guy. > he was called-in to the local Muni Court, to be one of OJ's expert-witnesses > to shoot-down some phoney pix from the National Enquirer, > of "OJ modelling Dumb Ass (tm) Shoes"; unfortunately, > Judjge Fujisaki did not *allow* the photographs to be so-examined in court, > which served the purpose of making Grodin, in hte LATimes e.g., look > like just a money-grubbing "conpsiracy theorist" nutcase, and > furthering the ends of the High Cabal (as Bucky and Proutty refer), > adding their weight to the effort to pulverize the lump-under-rug > of the WCReport. NE fakes photos all the time. Hillary shows up with a new body almost monthly. Are you saying the judge kept both the NE photos *and* the forensics refuter of same out of court, thereby sparing the jury one more side show circus revolving around the tabloid press? If so, sounds like sound judgement to me. Problem is, I can't really tell from the above paragraph if these were the facts, so poorly written and confused is your standard fare. Few even bother to decipher I'm sure. I'm on the brink of going back to auto-delete if you name's on it, but thought I'd file a few more for the record to make it clear we were not on the same "secret team". > to get back to DiE., to say that he "likes the Stone message" is > to put the cart a mile in front of the horse. I have not seen *any* > of the JFK "trilogy", but I also like the Stone message, since > it's based upon well-tested research, of Garrison's case, > Proutty's inside knowledge as a Cabinet-level intelligence-liaison and > participant in Eisenhower's security in Mexico City. Prouty wants people to question the Warren Commission and not fall for the Oswald-as-patsy cover-up, but he doesn't see eye-to-eye with Garrison on all aspects (you'll find his letters to Garrison at the Prouty website, which it sounds like you've never checked). Stone based the film on Garrison's case, using Prouty (played by Sutherland) as a "horse whisperer" to add suspense and high drama. But what Prouty is actually whispering I don't think Stone ever hears. > as for "Sy's research being as good as Jim's", > there appears to be an implication that you've read the former's, > which I did not note, bfore; eh? (anyway, please, > incluide the links to both, if you still have them; I don't.) > I asked if Jim had written any JFK books, suggesting it was easier to play on the sidelines than venture long and/or connected narratives of one's own. If he has titles to his name that you know about (and/or other web pages), feel free to post them here. > as for Lyn's shrill notes, maybe, > you are just inadeuqtely trained in the art of *bel canto* -- > he wrote the book on it! > LLR often rings falsetto to me. Another guy who wallows in factoids to support a rather simplistic all-time divider of key people into "goodies" and "baddies" (himself an unsung hero of course). Comforting pablum for those distressed by (unable to handle) real complexity. Bucky's stuff is better, by a long shot. In daring to be naive, he ended up with the more sophisticated blueprints, which I'm following a lot more closely than LLR's, with a nod to the latter's "science driver" meme (a partial overlap). Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:31:37 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Syn-l: energy slaves Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com In-Reply-To: <000b01be13d0$2ab54280$b62357ce@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit See "Energy/Slaves" in the Master Index: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/MasterIndex/MasterIndex-Empire-Energy.htm Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-synergetics-l@smtp.teleport.com > [mailto:owner-synergetics-l@smtp.teleport.com]On Behalf Of Dennis Blue > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 7:21 AM > To: synergetics-l@teleport.com > Subject: Syn-l: energy slaves > > > > Thanks for unsubscribing me from the list, Kirby. Sorry for the > hassle but I > decided to re-subscribe with our new server as my address and to > unsubscribe > with my previous address ( which our local freenet changed recently, hence > the confusion ). > > But now synergetics-l is coming through loud and clear at my new address, > albeit a little quiet. As a long time lurker I object, wishing far more > discussion on matters synergetic than you folks have been able to muster > lately. Hop to it folks, the world waits. > > I , of course, as usual, have big plans to keep everyone informed about my > musings synergetic, but, alas, just haven�t found the time of > (really) late. > But promise. > Only a quick comment for now: > > While rifling through our local library branch with my > homeschooled daughter > I came across a Jeremy Rifkin book- Biosphere Politics- that > makes mention > of Fuller in a couple of contexts. In the first quote Rifkin decries the > concept of Spaceship Earth as being mechanistic. > > Then Rifkin quotes Lester Brown (!) of Worldwatch Institute(!) as saying > that � The engineer and futurist Buckminster Fuller once calculated that a > middle-class American uses up enough energy to support two hundred human > slaves.� > > This latter quote strikes me as suspect but my quick researches haven�t > proven fruitful. One quote, from discussion years ago on this > list I think, > is closer to the �energy slave� concept I remember: > > �Fuller, in his World Resources Inventory , equated energy with > human work, > hence his use of the concept of �energy slaves��the amount of electricity > required to replace the work of one human worker (slave).� > > Rifkin�s quote puts a strange light on Fuller. I mean , who sits around > figuring out how to support two hundred human slaves? Perhaps > this coloured > Rifkin�s view of Fuller�s other work, on the concept of Spaceship > Earth for > example. > > Comments? > > Denis Blue > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:35:32 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Re: Syn-l: energy slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We all know that the average American household keeps about 200 slaves. I have 150 slaves myself. They're all scantily clan young nubile woman that live in my basement, and wait on me hand and foot. OK not all of them live in the basement. God (Who?) knows Fuller would never calculate energy use in terms of human muscle power. What a ridiculas assumption to make. Who would sit around and calculate the energy use of a household anyways, as you so rightly pointed out. So don't tell anyone that we Americans keep slaves. Wheeeeeeew ... Damn that was close. -----Original Message----- From: Joe S Moore Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Syn-l: energy slaves >See "Energy/Slaves" in the Master Index: > >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/MasterIndex/MasterIndex-Empire-Energy.htm > >Joe S Moore >joemoore@cruzio.com >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute >http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-synergetics-l@smtp.teleport.com >> [mailto:owner-synergetics-l@smtp.teleport.com]On Behalf Of Dennis Blue >> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 7:21 AM >> To: synergetics-l@teleport.com >> Subject: Syn-l: energy slaves >> >> >> >> Thanks for unsubscribing me from the list, Kirby. Sorry for the >> hassle but I >> decided to re-subscribe with our new server as my address and to >> unsubscribe >> with my previous address ( which our local freenet changed recently, hence >> the confusion ). >> >> But now synergetics-l is coming through loud and clear at my new address, >> albeit a little quiet. As a long time lurker I object, wishing far more >> discussion on matters synergetic than you folks have been able to muster >> lately. Hop to it folks, the world waits. >> >> I , of course, as usual, have big plans to keep everyone informed about my >> musings synergetic, but, alas, just haven�t found the time of >> (really) late. >> But promise. >> Only a quick comment for now: >> >> While rifling through our local library branch with my >> homeschooled daughter >> I came across a Jeremy Rifkin book- Biosphere Politics- that >> makes mention >> of Fuller in a couple of contexts. In the first quote Rifkin decries the >> concept of Spaceship Earth as being mechanistic. >> >> Then Rifkin quotes Lester Brown (!) of Worldwatch Institute(!) as saying >> that � The engineer and futurist Buckminster Fuller once calculated that a >> middle-class American uses up enough energy to support two hundred human >> slaves.� >> >> This latter quote strikes me as suspect but my quick researches haven�t >> proven fruitful. One quote, from discussion years ago on this >> list I think, >> is closer to the �energy slave� concept I remember: >> >> �Fuller, in his World Resources Inventory , equated energy with >> human work, >> hence his use of the concept of �energy slaves��the amount of electricity >> required to replace the work of one human worker (slave).� >> >> Rifkin�s quote puts a strange light on Fuller. I mean , who sits around >> figuring out how to support two hundred human slaves? Perhaps >> this coloured >> Rifkin�s view of Fuller�s other work, on the concept of Spaceship >> Earth for >> example. >> >> Comments? >> >> Denis Blue >> >> >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:02:16 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Syn-l: energy slaves <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 3:02 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Bucky was merely referring to his own, Brahminiac household of Priveleged Youth -- nothing he countenenced as an adult! seriously, Rifkin can really be (esp.earlier) a bumpkinoid, malthusian & luddite fool; as I recall, the "s;aves" were a straight computation on horsepower-output, or some such. (I'm sure, Uncle Urner will correct me, where necessary & with maximum force .-) thus quoth: > Rifkin�s quote puts a strange light on Fuller. I mean , who sits around > figuring out how to support two hundred human slaves? Perhaps > this coloured > Rifkin�s view of Fuller�s other work, on the concept of Spaceship > Earth for > example. as for the Spacesuit, I mean Ship, it even has a bowshock; go & figure. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:25:06 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 3:25 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us one might think that you were trying to piss me off, with your relentless "critique" of my ultrahorrible "output"; contrariwise, one might think that you had the proverbial bug up the royal behind. it's any one's guess! as for im DiEugennio, or however he spells it, I know very well that he has written *"repsected"* books, and the Probe article is perfectly exmplary, and also happens to be a touching exmplar of a review of a whole *class* of "output", in the veign of "contemporary history" (as with BFI's new neighbors, Prevailing Winds Research), or a *metareview*, and your attempt to trash it and/or me is opaque -- Why?... and, no, I hae not *read* any of DiE.'s booklength stuff; I am relying totally on the strenght of those articles (and, I think, I read the part 1 at the bookstore, and actually purchased the following issue to read. as for the WC (Ford, Dulles, Rainkin et al ad vomitorium) and it's Patsy Numero Pluribus Uno, Oswald, I seriously doubt that Proutty has any theory about him being the, or even a gunman; Oswald *liked* Kennedy. I read some of his exchanges with Garrison, in Prevailing Winds Magazine, but I'm happy that you are able to scan it "for free" -- just remember the movie, about the vicitm-graduates of Evelyn Wood's Reading Dynamics, Scanners -- ka-BOOM. of course, anyone is invited to hypothesize on why some one, such as myself, should be so fascinated with this ****, or simply make stuff up that looks stupid. thus quoth: Of course I can. I seriously disrespect your output to the internet -- obvious no? Your stuff really sucks Bri. Really low grade, crummy, garbage quality. thanks, Honey. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:41:59 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: 1989 world-embracing design science revolution <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 3:41 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I don't know that Tarpley'd be too keen on domes, or any particular thing that might be considered to be *survivalist*, although you might think so, from the new offering at the top of his page! I'm just advertizing for him, for free, since I don't *have* a webpage, now, since the PC-niks at LA*N kicked me off & confiscated my mail!... oh, well; I guess, that's what happens when you "virtually assualt" the local posers-that-"R" -- "Republicans" B They! thus quoth: Ok Brian, this address is "santa-monica.ca.us" but when I visited the websit at the bottom of this page (http://www.tarpley.net) it was for WEBSTER G. TARPLEY P.O. BOX 1486 WASHINGTON GROVE, MARYLAND 20880-1486 so can you tell me "what's the deal"? I am interested in havinga dome home built close to Montreal Canada and am looking for someone as close to that area as I can getto do it... I was thinking Maryland isn't too awfully far away. Can either of you two help me? --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:10:43 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain of Tiny Industrial Might <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 10:10 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ah, sorry, about this seeminly one-sided exchange between Uncle Urner et moi, moiself et Benoir (my nickname in some of 3y o'French, perhaps humorously pronounced, Ben-Wa; I'll have to hunt her down to ask !-) in case that you didn't notice --sometimes one feels militantly compelled to belabor the obvious-- the subject-matter of DiEugenio's 2-part PROBE article was, the assassination of the *character* of Kennedy, as unravelled into 3 different "threads" of faulty research, or plain ol'lies & statistics, and more-orten the stuff that gets the promotional impetus & bucks in general (such as Random House's Gerald Posner, who mystaquenly characterizes the community of hardcore archivists as rich schemers, which he may have believed in his "prosecutor's brief" zealotry of the noble, wan'o'be spook, Lee Harvey O., at one time or others (the "brief" quote is from a damning review of Posner's book, by a guy who produced a NOVA special on the subject, priorly, which appeared miraculously in the LATimes Book Review). "capitalism's" Invisible Army of Hand, in deed!... that *is* what seems to be behind the ongoing persecution of our President by the Starr Chambre, currently, hoepfully briefly expanded to into the House o'Reps; these clowns had to bring Congress to a screeching, legislative halt, in front of their pet-issues of banking/brokering/insuring "reform", and so on, in order to manage this brouhooha. people gripe, all o'the time, about "campaign finance reform", and yet fail to make any connections, other than their ham-handed, obssesive-compulsive ones of the Left (a la Noam Chompsky and Michael Parenti) and of the Right (a la William B.Fuckley etc.), so-called (i.e.the worst part of the gavel-to-gavel on KPFK, yesterday, was the Yahoo!s that called in, on the breaks & after !-) thanks for your tolerance, Brian! 'sOK, Dude. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:28:59 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain of Tiny Industrial Might <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 10:28 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us oh, for some qua-insight into the characters of the Left, as partially morphed into the Right (publisher of *The Weekly Standard* and so on), see the movie, "Arguing the World", which I saw, twice, at the KFPK Film Club, of which I am a member (I love to hate Pacifica, as the last remaining bastion of Public Radio, that is truly listener-supported, as opposed to NPR et al, which had recently refromulated their spiel, such that corporate block-grants are given the *same* status as individual contributions; if that sounds familiar -- hey .-) the movie was about the'50s and'60s radical ferment at City U.of New York, CUNY, and/or Columbia (I'm fuzzy on that); which, incidebtally, is the slefsame hotbed in which my fearless leader, Lyn, was bred. most of the Lefty's of that era/place have a Standard Line on Lyn from that era, involving a thing called Operation Mop-up, alleging the use of baseball bats for leverage. I even spoke with one of the Trotskyist leaders, this week, who insisted upon this, although he could not actually name anyone who was actually bloodied (there may have been an Op.Mop, but it probably involved the gentle mindscrubbing of some headsoiled hippies .-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:57:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 10:57 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us I thought, I was finished -- but wait!... I won't bore you to traction with the hilarious pratfall of my recent campaign --I cam in tenth of ten, and the "annointed Teal candidate" even brazenly "mopped-up" the "Rock the Vote! (tm)" charade at my alma mater, although I clearly got the laudest applouse out of nine ... enough!-- but here's a little thing or 2 that appeared, locally, in the realm of character-murder. next message, and I'll then port what I loaded onto PEN, for you, in overcoming a loca glitchware (please, aim your baited breath, over *there* .-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:00:51 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 11:00 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Item 17 ( 806) PRESS ISSUES 17:806) PRESS ISSUES Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-19 22:09 did anyone see that recent LATimes pair of Columns Right and Left, about monetary "reform", wherein *both* authors made a peculiar, out-of-sequence stab at Harry Dexter White as a Soviet mole?... anyway, this led me to wonder, if the whole supposed idea of his having been gay (whether you care or whether it was important, in terms of blackmail) may have been a derogatory fabrication.... oh, that's right; the articles were about the Commie Pinko Spies of the McCarthy Era, not about the IMF et al *per se*. so, anyway, this says more about the workings at the Times, than about harry Dexter White, one of FDR's primary advisors, and negotiators. http://www.larouchepub.com/eir_talks/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:04:02 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 11:04 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us 52:601) STATE OF THE UNION Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-19 22:23 The Ray book is basically an exercise in guilt through character assassination. This practice has been perfected in the Kennedy assassination field through Oswald biographers like Edward Epstein and Priscilla Johnson McMillan. Consider some of Blair�s chapter headings: �A Heritage of Violence,� �Too Many Strikes Against Him,� �The Status Seeker.� In fact, Blair actually compares Ray with Oswald (pp. 88-89). In this passage, the author reveals that he also believes that Oswald is the lone assassin of Kennedy. He then tries to imply that Ray had the same motive as his predecessor: a perverse desire for status and recognition. Later, Blair is as categorical about the JFK case as he is about the King case: In the case of John F. Kennedy the debate still rages. Millions of words have been written�pro and con. Yet no one has produced a single piece of hard evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was anything more than a psychopath acting entirely on his own. (p. 106) I could continue in a similar vein with excerpts from this book and I could also go on with more questionable aspects of Clay Blair�s background. And I could then use this information, and the inferences, to dismiss The Search for JFK. I could even add that Blair�s agent on his Kennedy book was Scott Meredith, who was representing Judith Exner at the time. But I won�t go that far. I may be wrong, but in my opinion I don�t think the book can be classified as a deliberate distortion or hatchet job. Although the authors are in some respects seeking to surface unflattering material, I didn�t feel that they were continually relying on questionable sources or witnesses, or consistently distorting or fabricating the record. As I have mentioned, the book can be criticized and questioned�and dismissed�on other grounds, but, as far as I can see, not on those two. Dubious Davis source: ibid. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:11:30 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) <> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 11:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us 52:600) STATE OF THE UNION Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-19 21:57 [sorry; I need this for pruposes of transfer.] The three threads are these: 1) That the Kennedys ordered Castro�s assassination, despite the verdict of the Church Committee on the CIA�s assassination plots. As I noted last issue, the committee report could find no evidence indicating that JFK and RFK authorized the plots on Fidel Castro, Rafael Trujillo of the Dominican Republic, or Ngo Dinh Diem of South Vietnam. 2) That the Kennedys were really �bad boys,� in some ways as bad as Chicago mobsters or the �gentleman killers� of the CIA. Although neither JFK nor RFK was lionized by the main centers of the media while they were alive, because of their early murders, many books and articles were written afterward that presented them in a sympathetic light, usually as liberal icons. This was tolerated by the media establishment as sentimental sop until the revelations of both Watergate and the Church Committee. This �good guy� image then needed to be altered since both those crises seemed to reveal that the Kennedys were actually different than what came before them (Eisenhower and the Dulles brothers) and what came after (Nixon). Thus began a series of anti-Kennedy biographies. 3) That Marilyn Monroe�s death was somehow ordained by her �involvement� with the Kennedy �bad boys.� Again, this was at first a rather peculiar cottage industry. But around the time of Watergate and the Church Committee it was given a lift, and going back to a 1964 paradigm, it combined elements of the first two movements into a Gothic (some would say grotesque) right-wing propaganda tract which is both humorous and depressing in its slanderous implications, and almost frightening in its political and cultural overtones. Egged on by advocates of Judith Exner (e.g. Liz Smith and Tony Summers), this political and cultural time bomb landed in Sy Hersh�s and ABC�s lap. When it blew up, all parties went into a damage control mode, pointing their fingers at each other. As we examine the sorry history of all three industries, we shall see that there is plenty of blame (and shame) to be shared. And not just in 1997. As we saw in Part One of this article, as the Church Committee was preparing to make its report, the Exner and then Mary Meyer stories made headlines in the Washington Post. These elements�intrigue from the CIA assassination plots, plus the sex angles, combined with the previous hazing of Richard Nixon over Watergate�spawned a wave of new anti-Kennedy �expose� biographies. Anti-Kennedy tracts were not new. But these new works differed from the earlier ones in that they owed their genesis and their styles to the events of the mid-seventies that had brought major parts of the establishment (specifically, the CIA and the GOP) so much grief. In fact we will deal with some of the earlier ones later. For now, let us examine this new pedigree and show how it fits into the movement outlined above. Looking for Mr. Kennedy (And Not Finding Him) The first anti-Kennedy book in this brood, although not quite a perfect fit into the genre, is The Search for JFK, by Joan and Clay Blair Jr. The book appeared in 1976, right after Watergate and the Church Committee hearings. In the book�s foreword, the authors are frank about what instigated their work: During Watergate (which revealed to us the real character of President Richard M. Nixon�as opposed to the manufactured Madison Avenue image), our thoughts turned to Jack Kennedy....Like other journalists, we were captivated by what was then called the �Kennedy mystique� and the excitement of �the New Frontier.� Now we began to wonder. Behind the image, what was Jack really like? Could one, at this early date, cut through the cotton candy and find the real man? (p. 10) In several ways, this is a revealing passage. First of all, the authors apparently accept the Washington Post version of Watergate�i.e. that Nixon, and only Nixon, was responsible for that whole range of malfeasance and that Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein got to the bottom of it. Second, it seems to me to be a curious leap from the politically misunderstood shenanigans of Watergate to the formative years of John Kennedy�s college prep days and early adulthood, which is what this book is about. It takes JFK from his days at the exclusive Choate School in source: http://www.webcom.com/~ctka/pr1197-jfk.html and, if you want to find the "WANDies" who were behind Naom Chompsky, who was behind "born-again radical" Ellsberg, don't look at their website, www.rand.org -- Earth's only thinktank with its own graduate-school (although there are parallels in academe, of course (a-hem)). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:22:20 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hal mc whinnie Subject: drawing of the day drawing and thought of the day Nov 21 1998 explorations of bucky Fuller cont.. [ next month frank Lloyd wright] "It seems strange that we were not taught about the historical, philosophical, and economic significance of the foregoing transition from an open-flat to a closed sphere world system. because the churches were strong and the great pirates wished to obscure both their monopoly of the rules of the non limited system and their grand world ocean strategy for its control, the significance of the concept of a closed system world system was populatiry encouraged. the power structure and its pratonized educational systems let well enought alone." fuller pp 59 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:33:10 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hal mc whinnie Subject: drawing of the day for nov 22 1998 some thought about JFK "The way the power structure keeps the wit and cunning of the intelligentsia- who are not musclemen, who cannot do the physical fighting- from making trouble for the power structure [ if the intelligentsia are too broadly informed, unwatched, and with time on their own in which to think] is to make each one a specialists with tools and an office or a lab. that is exactly why bright people today have become streamlined into specialists."fuller pp 62 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:57:53 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Anthony Ander Subject: REMOVE In-Reply-To: <199811210507.AAA14701@detroit.freenet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 12:07 AM 11/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >There are 9 messages totalling 390 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. Syn-l: energy slaves > 2. Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain > 3. 1989 world-embracing design science revolution > 4. Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain of Tiny Industrial Might (2) > 5. the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) (4) > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:02:16 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: Syn-l: energy slaves > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 3:02 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > Bucky was merely referring to his own, Brahminiac household > of Priveleged Youth -- nothing he countenenced as an adult! > seriously, Rifkin can really be (esp.earlier) a bumpkinoid, > malthusian & luddite fool; as I recall, > the "s;aves" were a straight computation on horsepower-output, > or some such. (I'm sure, Uncle Urner will correct me, > where necessary & with maximum force .-) > > thus quoth: > > Rifkin=92s quote puts a strange light on Fuller. I mean , who sits= around > > figuring out how to support two hundred human slaves? Perhaps > > this coloured > > Rifkin=92s view of Fuller=92s other work, on the concept of Spaceship > > Earth for > > example. > > as for the Spacesuit, I mean Ship, > it even has a bowshock; go & figure. > > --The Duke of Oil > http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:25:06 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 3:25 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > one might think that you were trying to piss me off, > with your relentless "critique" of my ultrahorrible "output"; > contrariwise, one might think that you had the proverbial bug > up the royal behind. it's any one's guess! > as for im DiEugennio, or however he spells it, > I know very well that he has written *"repsected"* books, and > the Probe article is perfectly exmplary, and also happens > to be a touching exmplar of a review of a whole *class* > of "output", in the veign of "contemporary history" (as > with BFI's new neighbors, Prevailing Winds Research), or > a *metareview*, and your attempt to trash it and/or me is opaque -- > Why?... and, no, I hae not *read* any of DiE.'s booklength stuff; > I am relying totally on the strenght of those articles (and, > I think, I read the part 1 at the bookstore, and > actually purchased the following issue to read. > as for the WC (Ford, Dulles, Rainkin et al ad vomitorium) and > it's Patsy Numero Pluribus Uno, Oswald, I seriously doubt that > Proutty has any theory about him being the, or even a gunman; > Oswald *liked* Kennedy. I read some of his exchanges with Garrison, > in Prevailing Winds Magazine, but I'm happy that > you are able to scan it "for free" -- just remember the movie, > about the vicitm-graduates of Evelyn Wood's Reading Dynamics, > Scanners -- ka-BOOM. > > of course, anyone is invited to hypothesize on why some one, > such as myself, should be so fascinated with this ****, or > simply make stuff up that looks stupid. > > thus quoth: > Of course I can. I seriously disrespect your output to the internet > -- obvious no? Your stuff really sucks Bri. Really low grade, crummy, > garbage quality. > > thanks, Honey. > > --The Duke of Oil > http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:41:59 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: 1989 world-embracing design science revolution > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 3:41 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I don't know that Tarpley'd be too keen on domes, or > any particular thing that might be considered > to be *survivalist*, although you might think so, > from the new offering at the top of his page! > I'm just advertizing for him, for free, since > I don't *have* a webpage, now, since the PC-niks > at LA*N kicked me off & confiscated my mail!... oh, well; > I guess, that's what happens when you "virtually assualt" > the local posers-that-"R" -- > "Republicans" B They! > > thus quoth: > Ok Brian, this address is "santa-monica.ca.us" but when I visited the websit > at the bottom of this page (http://www.tarpley.net) it was for > WEBSTER G. TARPLEY > P.O. BOX 1486 > WASHINGTON GROVE, > MARYLAND 20880-1486 > so can you tell me "what's the deal"? I am interested in havinga dome= home > built close to Montreal Canada and am looking for someone as close to= that > area as I can getto do it... > I was thinking Maryland isn't too awfully far away. Can either of you= two > help me? > > --The Duke of Oil > http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:10:43 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain of Tiny Industrial Might > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 10:10 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > ah, sorry, about this seeminly one-sided exchange > between Uncle Urner et moi, moiself et Benoir > (my nickname in some of 3y o'French, perhaps > humorously pronounced, Ben-Wa; I'll have to hunt her down to ask !-) > in case that you didn't notice > --sometimes one feels militantly compelled to belabor the obvious-- > the subject-matter of DiEugenio's 2-part PROBE article was, > the assassination of the *character* of Kennedy, > as unravelled into 3 different "threads" of faulty research, or > plain ol'lies & statistics, and more-orten the stuff > that gets the promotional impetus & bucks in general (such as > Random House's Gerald Posner, who mystaquenly characterizes > the community of hardcore archivists as rich schemers, > which he may have believed in his "prosecutor's brief" zealotry > of the noble, wan'o'be spook, Lee Harvey O., at one time or others > (the "brief" quote is from a damning review of Posner's book, > by a guy who produced a NOVA special on the subject, priorly, > which appeared miraculously in the LATimes Book Review). > "capitalism's" Invisible Army of Hand, in deed!... > that *is* what seems to be behind the ongoing persecution > of our President by the Starr Chambre, currently, hoepfully briefly > expanded to into the House o'Reps; > these clowns had to bring Congress to a screeching, legislative halt, > in front of their pet-issues of banking/brokering/insuring "reform", > and so on, in order to manage this brouhooha. people gripe, > all o'the time, about "campaign finance reform", and > yet fail to make any connections, other than > their ham-handed, obssesive-compulsive ones > of the Left (a la Noam Chompsky and Michael Parenti) and > of the Right (a la William B.Fuckley etc.), so-called > (i.e.the worst part of the gavel-to-gavel on KPFK, > yesterday, was the Yahoo!s that called in, on the breaks & after !-) > > thanks for your tolerance, Brian! > 'sOK, Dude. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:28:59 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: Bucky, the Uberuncular Captain of Tiny Industrial Might > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 10:28 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > oh, for some qua-insight into the characters of the Left, > as partially morphed into the Right (publisher > of *The Weekly Standard* and so on), > see the movie, "Arguing the World", which I saw, twice, > at the KFPK Film Club, of which I am a member (I love > to hate Pacifica, as the last remaining bastion of Public Radio, > that is truly listener-supported, as opposed to NPR et al, > which had recently refromulated their spiel, such that > corporate block-grants are given the *same* status > as individual contributions; if that sounds familiar -- hey .-) > the movie was about the'50s and'60s radical ferment > at City U.of New York, CUNY, and/or Columbia (I'm fuzzy > on that); which, incidebtally, is the slefsame hotbed > in which my fearless leader, Lyn, was bred. most > of the Lefty's of that era/place have a Standard Line > on Lyn from that era, involving a thing called Operation Mop-up, > alleging the use of baseball bats for leverage. I even spoke > with one of the Trotskyist leaders, this week, who insisted upon this, > although he could not actually name anyone who was actually bloodied > (there may have been an Op.Mop, but > it probably involved the gentle mindscrubbing > of some headsoiled hippies .-) > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:57:15 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 10:57 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > I thought, I was finished -- but wait!... I won't bore you > to traction with the hilarious pratfall of my recent campaign > --I cam in tenth of ten, and > the "annointed Teal candidate" even brazenly "mopped-up" > the "Rock the Vote! (tm)" charade at my alma mater, although > I clearly got the laudest applouse out of nine ... enough!-- > but here's a little thing or 2 that appeared, locally, > in the realm of character-murder. next message, and > I'll then port what I loaded onto PEN, for you, > in overcoming a loca glitchware (please, > aim your baited breath, over *there* .-) > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:00:51 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 11:00 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > Item 17 ( 806) PRESS ISSUES > 17:806) PRESS ISSUES > Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-19 22:09 > > did anyone see that recent LATimes pair of Columns Right and Left, > about monetary "reform", wherein *both* authors made a peculiar, > out-of-sequence stab at Harry Dexter White as a Soviet mole?... anyway, > this led me to wonder, if the whole supposed idea of his having > been gay (whether you care or whether it was important, > in terms of blackmail) may have been a derogatory fabrication.... oh, > that's right; the articles were about the Commie Pinko Spies > of the McCarthy Era, not about the IMF et al *per se*. > so, anyway, this says more about the workings at the Times, > than about harry Dexter White, one of FDR's primary advisors, and > negotiators. > > http://www.larouchepub.com/eir_talks/index.html > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:04:02 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 11:04 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > 52:601) STATE OF THE UNION > Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-19 22:23 > > The Ray book is basically an exercise in guilt through character > assassination. This practice has been perfected in the Kennedy > assassination field through Oswald biographers like Edward > Epstein and Priscilla Johnson McMillan. Consider some of Blair=92s > chapter headings: =93A Heritage of Violence,=94 =93Too Many Strikes > Against Him,=94 =93The Status Seeker.=94 In fact, Blair actually > compares Ray with Oswald (pp. 88-89). In this passage, the > author reveals that he also believes that Oswald is the lone > assassin of Kennedy. He then tries to imply that Ray had the > same motive as his predecessor: a perverse desire for status and > recognition. Later, Blair is as categorical about the JFK case as > he is about the King case: > > In the case of John F. Kennedy the debate still rages. > Millions of words have been written=97pro and con. Yet > no one has produced a single piece of hard evidence > that Lee Harvey Oswald was anything more than a > psychopath acting entirely on his own. (p. 106) > > I could continue in a similar vein with excerpts from this book and > I could also go on with more questionable aspects of Clay Blair=92s > background. And I could then use this information, and the > inferences, to dismiss The Search for JFK. I could even add that > Blair=92s agent on his Kennedy book was Scott Meredith, who was > representing Judith Exner at the time. But I won=92t go that far. I > may be wrong, but in my opinion I don=92t think the book can be > classified as a deliberate distortion or hatchet job. Although the > authors are in some respects seeking to surface unflattering > material, I didn=92t feel that they were continually relying on > questionable sources or witnesses, or consistently distorting or > fabricating the record. As I have mentioned, the book can be > criticized and questioned=97and dismissed=97on other grounds, > but, as far as I can see, not on those two. > > Dubious Davis > > source: ibid. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:11:30 -0800 >From: Brian Hutchings >Subject: Re: the Whirling (Sufi) Hashashin (or, What's Kirby Smokin' ?-) > ><> Brian Hutchings 20-NOV-1998 11:11 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > 52:600) STATE OF THE UNION > Brian Hutchings 18-NOV-19 21:57 > > [sorry; I need this for pruposes of transfer.] > > The three threads are these: 1) That the Kennedys ordered > Castro=92s assassination, despite the verdict of the Church > Committee on the CIA=92s assassination plots. As I noted last > issue, the committee report could find no evidence indicating that > JFK and RFK authorized the plots on Fidel Castro, Rafael > Trujillo of the Dominican Republic, or Ngo Dinh Diem of South > Vietnam. 2) That the Kennedys were really =93bad boys,=94 in some > ways as bad as Chicago mobsters or the =93gentleman killers=94 of > the CIA. Although neither JFK nor RFK was lionized by the > main centers of the media while they were alive, because of their > early murders, many books and articles were written afterward > that presented them in a sympathetic light, usually as liberal icons. > This was tolerated by the media establishment as sentimental sop > until the revelations of both Watergate and the Church > Committee. This =93good guy=94 image then needed to be altered > since both those crises seemed to reveal that the Kennedys were > actually different than what came before them (Eisenhower and > the Dulles brothers) and what came after (Nixon). Thus began a > series of anti-Kennedy biographies. 3) That Marilyn Monroe=92s > death was somehow ordained by her =93involvement=94 with the > Kennedy =93bad boys.=94 Again, this was at first a rather peculiar > cottage industry. But around the time of Watergate and the > Church Committee it was given a lift, and going back to a 1964 > paradigm, it combined elements of the first two movements into a > Gothic (some would say grotesque) right-wing propaganda tract > which is both humorous and depressing in its slanderous > implications, and almost frightening in its political and cultural > overtones. Egged on by advocates of Judith Exner (e.g. Liz Smith > and Tony Summers), this political and cultural time bomb landed > in Sy Hersh=92s and ABC=92s lap. When it blew up, all parties went > into a damage control mode, pointing their fingers at each other. > As we examine the sorry history of all three industries, we shall > see that there is plenty of blame (and shame) to be shared. And > not just in 1997. > > As we saw in Part One of this article, as the Church Committee > was preparing to make its report, the Exner and then Mary > Meyer stories made headlines in the Washington Post. These > elements=97intrigue from the CIA assassination plots, plus the sex > angles, combined with the previous hazing of Richard Nixon over > Watergate=97spawned a wave of new anti-Kennedy =93expose=94 > biographies. Anti-Kennedy tracts were not new. But these new > works differed from the earlier ones in that they owed their > genesis and their styles to the events of the mid-seventies that had > brought major parts of the establishment (specifically, the CIA > and the GOP) so much grief. In fact we will deal with some of the > earlier ones later. For now, let us examine this new pedigree and > show how it fits into the movement outlined above. > > Looking for Mr. Kennedy > (And Not Finding Him) > > The first anti-Kennedy book in this brood, although not quite a > perfect fit into the genre, is The Search for JFK, by Joan and > Clay Blair Jr. The book appeared in 1976, right after Watergate > and the Church Committee hearings. In the book=92s foreword, the > authors are frank about what instigated their work: > > During Watergate (which revealed to us the real > character of President Richard M. Nixon=97as opposed > to the manufactured Madison Avenue image), our > thoughts turned to Jack Kennedy....Like other > journalists, we were captivated by what was then > called the =93Kennedy mystique=94 and the excitement of > =93the New Frontier.=94 Now we began to wonder. Behind > the image, what was Jack really like? Could one, at > this early date, cut through the cotton candy and find > the real man? (p. 10) > > In several ways, this is a revealing passage. First of all, the > authors apparently accept the Washington Post version of > Watergate=97i.e. that Nixon, and only Nixon, was responsible for > that whole range of malfeasance and that Bob Woodward and > Carl Bernstein got to the bottom of it. Second, it seems to me to > be a curious leap from the politically misunderstood shenanigans > of Watergate to the formative years of John Kennedy=92s college > prep days and early adulthood, which is what this book is about. > It takes JFK from his days at the exclusive Choate School in > > source: http://www.webcom.com/~ctka/pr1197-jfk.html > > and, if you want to find the "WANDies" who were behind Naom Chompsky, > who was behind "born-again radical" Ellsberg, > don't look at their website, www.rand.org -- > Earth's only thinktank with its own graduate-school (although > there are parallels in academe, of course (a-hem)). > >------------------------------ > >End of GEODESIC Digest - 19 Nov 1998 to 20 Nov 1998 (#1998-125) >*************************************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:34:26 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: REMOVE <> Brian Hutchings 22-NOV-1998 0:34 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us sorry, REMOVE, but I fell into Kirby's trap; he sends me stuff in the mail, and I dont' realize that it wasn't to the list, til halfway through the "exchange" (since I have to manually address stuff, and so forth, via PEN). I am sorry, for the regulars & Kuromiya, for possibly puttinh a damper on this forum, but, not only do I feel that Bucky was mindlessly "apolitical" (and that it served very well, for him to establish his business of making-sense-not-money) or antipolitical in the mold of his Aunt Ossoli and the Transcendentalists --possibly even imperialist in TR's Spanish- American War for the "liberation" of Cuba (and I hope that that is evocative of a certain, other, undead President)-- but that his youthful status as a member of "3h,T5G", undoubtedly if it was no matter, that he may have been a scion of a founding Mather (say), contributed to his professed "naieve daring", as well as to his de-facto anti-republican attitude -- as just revealed, in acouple of quotes, just sent on the list, by some one "up" there! --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:31:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: drawing of the day for nov 22 1998 <> Brian Hutchings 22-NOV-1998 1:31 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us it was the 22nd minute of the 22nd hour of the 22nd day of the 22nd month-- hey, wait a second; what planet are *you* on?... oh, right; it's the French Calendar! specialization, or the "division of labor" in industrialization, is not the problem; rather, it is "tracking" or OBE (outcome-based education) in our public schools, that incapacitates or "degeniuses" us, that is rememedied by the holistical curriculum, here, called "classical ed." unfortunately, Bucky seemed to seek an automated version of the former, OBE, if you can read that into his scheme for assessing the strengths of each child, along with the "education automation"; can you? thus quoth: some thought about JFK "The way the power structure keeps the wit and cunning of the intelligentsia- who are not musclemen, who cannot do the physical fighting- from making trouble for the power structure [ if the intelligentsia are too broadly informed, unwatched, and with time on their own in which to think] is to make each one a specialists with tools and an office or a lab. that is exactly why bright people today have become streamlined into specialists."fuller pp 62 now, if you ascertain the incredible breadth of knowledge that was required to attain JFK's moonshot, as per Bucky's "CP" of a-million-and-one-at-least-things-to-do, then you'll realize, perhaps, that it was just the first step into "remote cosmography", in contrast to the current "programme" of the TRW beancounter, Goldin, and his "cheap, cheaper, cheapest" of unmanned "exploration". later, if you avoid the 3-thread "literature" of Posner, Sy et al, in favor of that which actually reveals his *dirigiste* political economy --see the book, _Battling Wall Street_; call 800/453-6812-- you will start to grok, why it is that the oligarch has murdered 4 Presidents of the USA, and are still trying to thwart the rpublicanoid tendencies of the current one. on the other hand, I wouldn't want to bust your virtual *samadhi*, of Waiting for the Millenium to Derive the Design-Science Revolution -- Anticipatory ?!? the following "quote" o'Bucky is equally inadept, with the hamhanded slapping of "the churches" and the antihistorical ranting about "closed systems & flat earths"; of course, this was well-known to the "classical" Greeks, and "the Church" was often nothing *but* a tool of the oligarchy, as in its Holy Roman officaldom & so forth, but it has also been the primary promoter of science, if you keep the God-am jeezwhits out of it! thus quoth: explorations of bucky Fuller cont.. "It seems strange that we were not taught about the historical, philosophical, and economic significance of the foregoing transition from an open-flat to a closed sphere world system. because the churches were strong and the great pirates wished to obscure both their monopoly of the rules of the non limited system and their grand world ocean strategy for its control, the significance of the concept of a closed system world system was populatiry encouraged. the power structure and its pratonized educational systems let well enought alone." fuller pp 59 --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:39:59 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: NASA bean counters. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE1604.743EB720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE1604.743EB720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable T-minus 1 bean and counting: Brian you're right that a TRW bean counter thinks he's being clever with = his cheaper faster smaller rhetoric. A lot of scientists don't realize = that what's going on is doing more with less. There are those that = believe doing more with less is a negative like getting by with the = lowest bidder or duct tapping it till it really breaks. What a lot of = people, both scientists and non scientists don't grasp is that doing = more with less is a natural phenomonon. Important thresholds or = milestones have been reached. I call them critical thresholds; for = instance all people on earth can commicate with with each other do to = the ability to launch and operate communications equiptment capable of = handling the communications needs of all people. 'Irridium' is the first = step into that and the ongoing trend or natural phenomonon of doing more = with less will ever increase the communications capability of all people = on the planet no matter how many people there are. In other words the = population of earth could triple and wireless satellite communicatons = could still be maintained. Being an ex spook I doubt if Goldin will cop = to the truth about doing more with less, those types like to believe = they've outsmarted everone else.=20 But on a more progesive note there are those in NASA who do understand = the concept of doing more with less. And there are those also in NASA = who understand that nature is more that just the local Earth system vis = a vie mother nature is more like the whole Universe. Whatever NASA's = reasons, they have no choice but to operate in the domain of doing more = with less. =20 Technology is going to save the day, has it always does, contrary to = what you said in one of your drug crazed babblings here earlier. The so = called humanitarian landing of the CB's in Honduras is horseshit since = what they are up to is to create army bases for occupation. I like the = militaries 'can do' spirit, though. I only wish that, that spirit was = present in creating the 'Livingry Industrial Complex'. The flooding of = the rivers has created new topsoil in Honduras. No matter that the = mountain slopes are not so rich in nutrients; the rivers are. And the = banana growers are going to be out of business for at least two years = untill the crops can come back. Maybe, Hopefully, there can be an = establishment of a dome home industry created in that interim. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE1604.743EB720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
T-minus 1 bean and = counting:

Brian you're right that a TRW bean counter thinks = he's being=20 clever with his cheaper faster smaller rhetoric. A lot of scientists = don't=20 realize that what's going on is doing more with less. There are those = that=20 believe doing more with less is a negative like getting by with the = lowest=20 bidder or duct tapping it till it really breaks. What a lot of people, = both=20 scientists and non scientists don't grasp is that doing more with less = is a=20 natural phenomonon. Important thresholds or milestones have been = reached. I call=20 them critical thresholds; for instance all people on earth can commicate = with=20 with each other do to the ability to launch and operate communications=20 equiptment capable of handling the communications needs of all people.=20 'Irridium' is the first step into that and the ongoing trend or natural=20 phenomonon of doing more with less will ever increase the communications = capability of all people on the planet no matter how many people there = are. In=20 other words the population of earth could triple and wireless satellite=20 communicatons could still be maintained. Being an ex spook I doubt if = Goldin=20 will cop to the truth about doing more with less, those types like to = believe=20 they've outsmarted everone else.

But on a more progesive note there are those in NASA = who do=20 understand the concept of doing more with less. And there are those also = in NASA=20 who understand that nature is more that just the local Earth system vis = a vie=20 mother nature is more like the whole Universe. Whatever NASA's reasons, = they=20 have no choice but to operate in the domain of doing more with=20 less.

Technology is going to save the day, has it always = does,=20 contrary to what you said in one of your drug crazed babblings here = earlier. The=20 so called humanitarian landing of the CB's in Honduras is horseshit = since what=20 they are up to is to create army bases for occupation. I like the = militaries=20 'can do' spirit, though. I only wish that, that spirit was present in = creating=20 the 'Livingry Industrial Complex'. The flooding of the rivers has = created new=20 topsoil in Honduras. No matter that the mountain slopes are not so rich = in=20 nutrients; the rivers are. And the banana growers are going to be out of = business for at least two years untill the crops can come back. Maybe,=20 Hopefully, there can be an establishment of a dome home industry created = in that=20 interim.
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE1604.743EB720-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:32:20 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: NASA bean counters. <> Brian Hutchings 22-NOV-1998 14:32 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us [note: who ever you are, I want to thank you for putting the plaintext before hyper, although I don't know why you bother, than that you can.] you missed the window & the side of that building in which the Satrn V was built. Goldin's "faster, better, cheaper" is an excuse for cost-cutting & scrimping on safety, an attempt to low-ball the Russians before we get into floating bed with'em, perhaps. the fact that NASA'll make *use* of the latest fruits taht are available "on the market" is incidental to that, it is *not* the dirigist application of credit to do it *well*, or "ephemeraliztion" or "more with less", although those latter 2 should not be taken for kinky worship, anyway (and I didn't know that Goldin was a spook, but I thought that *all* executives of TRW, were .-) here's an example for your tactile, beancounting pleasure: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:46:26 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: NASA's bean counters. <> Brian Hutchings 22-NOV-1998 14:46 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us to which drug-crazed babbleing do you refer? thus quoth: Technology is going to save the day, has it always does, contrary to = what you said in one of your drug crazed babblings here earlier. The so = called humanitarian landing of the CB's in Honduras is horseshit since = anyway, a military base is OK, as long as it is built with the full co-operation of teh other nation, along the lines of the anti-imperialist Monroe Doctrine of John Quincy Adams. (suprantaional exploits, as in Iraq, Panama, Los Ilas Malvinas, to name the Thatcher-Bush Wars, of course are abrogations of it (in the last 2 cases).) --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:15:08 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Nov.22 (RBF-day?) <> Brian Hutchings 22-NOV-1998 15:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us The recent attention to the evidence bearing upon the 233-231 BC attempt to circumnavigate our planet, that by Egyptian associates of the Plato Academy's great Eratosthenes, should impel us to recast, in a richer way, the thesis on maritime culture which I presented in a publication written about 16ya. Several benefits, of the utmost general scientific, *and also global, contemporary political importance*, are implicitly located in the outcome of such renewed attention to this subject-matter. --Lyn, 20november98 in *EIR* his "maritime culture" is very similar to Bucky's hypothesis re Thailand & Austronesia. the same sort of thing applies to the *fraud* of the "Copernican Revolution" by Paolo Sarpi and his protoge, Galileo, although it wasn't the fault of Copernicus! thus quoth: "It seems strange that we were not taught about the historical, philosophical, and economic significance of the foregoing transition from open-flat to a closed sphere world system. because the churches were stron and the great pirates wished to obscure both their monopoly of the rules o the non limited system and their grand world ocean strategy for its contro the significance of the concept of a closed system world system was populatiry encouraged. the power structure and its pratonized educational systems let well enought alone." fuller pp 59 --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:28:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: First rule of thumb of Aerospace development. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE163D.8DCB9C60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE163D.8DCB9C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First lesson, of aerospace research and developement is: if it don't = crash than it's safe. In other words they're pushing the design limits = all the time. Given the budget Goldin has to work with he and his = project designers will build has much stuff as they can to shoot up into = space. Even though he comes from a spook (as a TRW executive) background = he's a space exploration nerd, first. Unfortunately it's public opinion that maintains the safety protocals = regarding NASA. The idea of putting up anyone like a teacher or a = senator was and still is public relations horse crap. Every shuttle that = goes up is different from every other shuttle missions, they hardly = shoot thier engineers. They might maim a few. If you follow the programs = you would find that dollar for dollar NASA delivers more than a lot of = government programs. NASA itself was originally deep spook, but = individual citizens got so caught up in the whole thing of space = exploration that NASA had to create it's public face, it's now finding = that it's public face is more so profitable than it's spook programs = ever were.=20 Plus When I pointed out that the only reason that they can get away with = their cheaper faster smaller programs was because that's how the = Universe works not because Goldin is a visionary in that sense, although = they may have another way of explaining how it is that they can build = more projects into their given budgets. And to say they build out safety = is ridiculas. They hardly really build in safety to begin with, at least = not the kind of safety you and I are used to, or would find exceptable = if it were we flying on a mission. Honduran occupation by American troops via the permission of the = Honduran government (Which I really doubt given how such nonsense is = tied into humanitarian aid) doesn't justify said occupation. On top of = which the occupation was presented as humanitarian in the first place = with all the fan fare the pentagon could muster. Jesus fucking christ, = Hutchings climb out of your bunker dude, all that pot smoke and mind = numbing reloading in that confined space is screwing up your thinking, = or is it you are conducting LSD experiments, and if you are I wouldn't = recommend reloading cartridges while you're tripping. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE163D.8DCB9C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
First lesson, of aerospace research = and=20 developement is: if it don't crash than it's safe. In other words = they're=20 pushing the design limits all the time. Given the budget Goldin has to = work with=20 he and his project designers will build has much stuff as they can to = shoot up=20 into space. Even though he comes from a spook (as a TRW executive) = background=20 he's a space exploration nerd, first.

Unfortunately it's public opinion = that maintains=20 the safety protocals regarding NASA. The idea of putting up anyone like = a=20 teacher or a senator was and still is public relations horse crap. Every = shuttle=20 that goes up is different from every other shuttle missions, they hardly = shoot=20 thier engineers. They might maim a few. If you follow the programs you = would=20 find that dollar for dollar NASA delivers more than a lot of government=20 programs. NASA itself was originally deep spook, but individual citizens = got so=20 caught up in the whole thing of space exploration that NASA had to = create it's=20 public face, it's now finding that it's public face is more so = profitable than=20 it's spook programs ever were.

Plus When I pointed out that the = only reason=20 that they can get away with their cheaper faster smaller programs was = because=20 that's how the Universe works not because Goldin is a visionary in that = sense,=20 although they may have another way of explaining how it is that they can = build=20 more projects into their given budgets. And to say they build out safety =

is ridiculas. They hardly really = build in safety=20 to begin with, at least not the kind of safety you and I are used to, or = would=20 find exceptable if it were we flying on a mission.

Honduran occupation by American = troops via the=20 permission of the Honduran government (Which I really doubt given how = such=20 nonsense is tied into humanitarian aid) doesn't justify said occupation. = On top=20 of which the occupation was presented as humanitarian in the first place = with=20 all the fan fare the pentagon could muster. Jesus fucking christ, = Hutchings=20 climb out of your bunker dude, all that pot smoke and mind numbing = reloading in=20 that confined space is screwing up your thinking, or is it you are = conducting=20 LSD experiments, and if you are I wouldn't recommend reloading = cartridges while=20 you're tripping.
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE163D.8DCB9C60-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:13:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "P. O. Box 2321" Subject: Fuller and Modelability Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A defining characteristic of synergetics is modelability. Sections 203.08 and 445.18 state synergetics is always modelable. Elsewhere, although I cannot find the reference, I believe Fuller stated synergetics was inherently modelable: if a physical model could not demonstrate an idea, it would be removed from synergetics. My question is: Does the requirement for modelability in synergetics rightly include computer graphic models? Computer graphic models can 'behave' in ways that simulate the physical world but they are not the physical world - and it was physical models that (I believe) Fuller stated were essential to synergetics. As I understand it, Fuller included nothing in synergetics that could not be represented by a physical model. Are computer graphic models, therefore, pseudo-synergetics? -- Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:11:24 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Fuller and Modelability <> Brian Hutchings 23-NOV-1998 10:11 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us isn't tht the problem of "provisionally accepting the proof- by-computer of Appel and Haken of the 4-color Conjecture" ??... no, not really; that was a matter of going through zillions of combinations, but a finite # of them, to discard them as possible counter-examples to the conjecture. Bucky's criterium of "physical modelability" is the same as the one for mathematical physics: it must be demonstrated, in the lab or in Universe. the details of the workings of a computer cary, from maker to maker, although there is a standard, IEEE855, or some thing, that sets-down the suggested form for "floating-point arithmetic". whether the latter (e.g.) applies to your virtual experiment, is a matter of judgement, but these simulations ought assuredly to be banned from the classroom (unfortunately, the Superbabies of Earth are being homeschooled with this "virtual chemlab" stuff, an accident wating to happen -- it certainly blew-up in Mandelbrot's face, at Royce Hall, UCLA (imagine, a Fellow@IBM, not having asked any one else, about the FPA chips and "magnification" !-) thus quoth: My question is: Does the requirement for modelability in synergetics rightly include computer graphic models? Computer graphic models can 'behave' in ways that simulate the physical world but they are not the physical world - and it was physical models that (I believe) Fuller stated were essential to synergetics. As I understand it, Fuller included nothing in synergetics that could not be represented by a physical model. Are computer graphic models, therefore, pseudo-synergetics? --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:25:22 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: First rule of thumb of Aerospace development. <> Brian Hutchings 23-NOV-1998 10:25 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Glenn is not an astronut?... as for Goldin being a "nerd d'exploration", forget it; you're correct, that it's out of his hands.... as for me being a pot-head, I gave it up, weeks ago, because I can't articulate my moral hatred of George "the golem" Soros' funding of the (reportedly; I kilt my TV) Madison Avenue-style campaign for Medical (sik) Marijuana ... lock & load! thus quoth: Plus When I pointed out that the only reason that they can get away with = their cheaper faster smaller programs was because that's how the = Universe works not because Goldin is a visionary in that sense, although = they may have another way of explaining how it is that they can build = more projects into their given budgets. And to say they build out safety = is ridiculas. They hardly really build in safety to begin with, at least = not the kind of safety you and I are used to, or would find exceptable = if it were we flying on a mission. politically, I guess, it'd have been totally inexpedient to send troops to Nicaragua for the relief, but it is *certainly* proper in Honduras. if you want to gripe about imperialist occupation, you should focus your sight on the UN "peacekeepers", as in Cambodia, Honduras, El Salvador etc.etc.ad vomitorium gigantum. --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:30:20 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: First rule of thumb of Aerospace development. <> Brian Hutchings 23-NOV-1998 10:30 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us you are way out-of-loop on safety. the perfect exemplar, which I was going to get to, anyway, is the fact that NASA couldn't get anyone to volunteer to board Mir, on the last trip, so that they settled on a guy who was otherwise going to be tried for espionage -- isn't it great, to have a breeteesh mole' "up" there, at the beginning of our join-efforts on the space-station? (there was just a book on this, which was promoted by its author on a local scifi show, "Hour 25".) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:35:40 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Nov.22 (RBF-day?) MESSAGE from ="List 23-NOV-1998 9:22 <> Brian Hutchings 22-NOV-1998 15:15 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us The recent attention to the evidence bearing upon the 233-231 BC attempt to circumnavigate our planet, that by Egyptian associates of the Plato Academy's great Eratosthenes, should impel us to recast, in a richer way, the thesis on maritime culture which I presented in a publication written about 16ya. Several benefits, of the utmost general scientific, *and also global, contemporary political importance*, are implicitly located in the outcome of such renewed attention to this subject-matter. --Lyn, 20november98 in *EIR* his "maritime culture" is very similar to Bucky's hypothesis re Thailand & Austronesia. the same sort of thing applies to the *fraud* of the "Copernican Revolution" by Paolo Sarpi and his protoge, Galileo, although it wasn't the fault of Copernicus! thus quoth: "It seems strange that we were not taught about the historical, philosophical, and economic significance of the foregoing transition from open-flat to a closed sphere world system. because the churches were stron and the great pirates wished to obscure both their monopoly of the rules o the non limited system and their grand world ocean strategy for its contro the significance of the concept of a closed system world system was populatiry encouraged. the power structure and its pratonized educational systems let well enought alone." fuller pp 59 --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 23-NOV-1998 10:35 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us this is the metaphorical Ulysses of Homer; see "Portrait of a Young Artist-Bullshitter". --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:37:52 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Russell Chu Subject: Re: Syn-l: Fuller and Modelability Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "P. O. Box 2321" wrote: > > My question is: Does the requirement for modelability in synergetics > rightly include computer graphic models? Computer graphic models can > 'behave' in ways that simulate the physical world but they are not the > physical world - and it was physical models that (I believe) Fuller stated > were essential to synergetics. As I understand it, Fuller included > nothing in synergetics that could not be represented by a physical model. > Are computer graphic models, therefore, pseudo-synergetics? >From my experience the use of computer graphics (Struck in particular) has been an integral part of exploring Synergetics. As the concepts we are trying to comprehend become more complex the tools required would be different maybe more complex too. It is similar to the change from long hand to slide rules to calculators... even the most complex calculations could conceivably be done by hand, but it would take a long time. With modeling and computer modeling is the same it would just take a much longer time. It is possible to build models with the computer that do not test out in the physical world. And eventually models could be so complex that it would be time prohibitive to duplicate in a physical model. But hopefully the model is a representation of reality and therefore could be confirmed in the real world. So, I feel that computer modeling, graphics could replace hands on modeling, for the most part it already has for me. -- Russell Chu kas-chu@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:37:15 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Syn-l: Fuller and Modelability <> Brian Hutchings 23-NOV-1998 13:37 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us thus saith: I want a recount -- I want kids who *can* count, *and* use a slide-rule, *and* a calculator, and build a computer (hey, as long as it's your choice of Mac !-) you had to be there, folks; it was a reference to a bogus "forum of the candidates" at my highschool alma mater, which was "won" by the Green, apparently involving some arrangement by him, a consultant o'Mac for the schooldistrict -- MTV's "Rock the Vote! (tm)" is not policed, exactly (and he admittedly called the woman who runs the Student Body *class*, 6 times, and I had to call them just to get the logistics); the write-up in the schoolpaper was a total TILT, giving a pretense that they were incapable of simple math, which I ssupsect). well, that was a digression. it's fine, to rely upon handheld computers, if you know more-or-less *how* to use a McLaurin's series, like it does -- even if it's "math for business " or social sciences or dummies or what ever. thus quoth: So, I feel that computer modeling, graphics could replace hands on modeling, for the most part it already has for me. anyway, isn't the sort of modelling, to which you refer, prior to "actual demonstration", or isn't it otherwise unimportant, as to its *structural* qualities -- models of making "models", as in arts & crafts (however educational) ?? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:21:17 -0500 Reply-To: monkey@one.net Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: David Anderson Organization: Flying Monkey Software Subject: Geodesic Constructions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's been a while... But I've been of writing a lot of code and playing a lot of backgammon... I finally tooks some pictures of my models and the greenhouse frame, and got a friend to do some scanning. The results are presented on a page, "Geodesic Constructions". http://w3.one.net/~monkey/geodesics/constructions - Dave Anderson monkey@one.net http://w3.one.net/~monkey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:29:22 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE PRE-ENGINEERED BUILDING SYSTEMS THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA - COLLEGE OF ARCHITECTURE http://www.ou.edu/class/hgruenwald/teach/5970/5972.htm BUILDING SYSTEMS OVERVIEW (includes many references to Buckminster Fuller) http://www.ou.edu/class/hgruenwald/teach/5970/5972l2.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:50:31 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE MESSAGE from =mail@SpaceshipEarth.com 24-NOV-1998 11:46 INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE PRE-ENGINEERED BUILDING SYSTEMS THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA - COLLEGE OF ARCHITECTURE http://www.ou.edu/class/hgruenwald/teach/5970/5972.htm BUILDING SYSTEMS OVERVIEW (includes many references to Buckminster Fuller) http://www.ou.edu/class/hgruenwald/teach/5970/5972l2.htm - - - - - <> Brian Hutchings 24-NOV-1998 11:50 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us hey, extra-groovy, m'man (gi'me five-plus-plus etc. !-) so, is this a single class of prof.Gruenwald, or a larger curriculum? --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:58:07 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Syn-l: Fuller and Modelability <> Brian Hutchings 24-NOV-1998 12:58 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us hey, Russell; weren't you at that talk by Mandelbrot?... I'd really like to get another account of his spiel, particularly his response to my rhetorical question,a bout the FPUs@IBM (and I'll leave to the imagination of the listers, herein, the evocation of monsieur'Brot's dysclaimer, that he had biological frog in his throat, as well, owing to a cold; mon Dieu -- just see if you can promulgate the pidgin English, and leave it at that !-) thus quoth: anyway, isn't the sort of modelling, to which you refer, prior to "actual demonstration", or isn't it otherwise unimportant, as to its *structural* qualities -- models of making "models", as in arts & crafts (however educational) ?? also, I'd like to revise that. let's just say, you can certainly get some broad *ideas* of a "global" sort about local behavior, but the Struck model (e.g., last I saw it on de Jong's page) is way- too idealized or special-case to, say, test the X-15 (or what ever. I'm referring to the zero-diameter, coilless springs, the pointmass hubs, and so on (or, I guess, that's it .-)) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:35:26 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Syn-l: Fuller and Modelability <> Brian Hutchings 24-NOV-1998 13:35 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us ouf, une autre chose! the "small matter" of the floating-point algorithm, as implicated on some processor, will certainly affect those behaviors of the Struck model (e.g.); actually, it is a *source* of "Chaos, mother of Chronos" -- I hate that term!... anyway, that is acutally covered, in depth, in a book that I informed the listers of Syn-heL (sik), better than I ever could, whose auhtor's name, I still am forgetting (James McSomeone). one of his topics is "granularity", and you'll immediately grok the relavents of that to "magnification" of fractals, in a pixelated cultural medium (as it were, unser the v-microscope .-) thus saith: also, I'd like to revise that. let's just say, you can certainly get some broad *ideas* of a "global" sort about local behavior, but the Struck model (e.g., last I saw it on de Jong's page) is way- too idealized or special-case to, say, test the X-15 (or what ever. I'm referring to the zero-diameter, coilless springs, the pointmass hubs, and so on (or, I guess, that's it .-)) --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:51:05 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Kirby Urner Subject: VRML and Povray views of the concentric hierarchy Comments: To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those of you getting into Java, or thinking about it, I've gone further to converge synergetics with some simple essays about object-oriented programming, complete with working source code starting at http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/oop.html The Java version is probably the most interesting to the most people, even though the majority of my 5-part essay focusses on XBase as a teaching language (because in some ways it's simpler to learn -- plus it's just what I know). But the Java version is more portable and will run with no investment of $$, since the JDK is a free download. What the program does is spit out Povray and/or VRML files based on command line input (yes, in a DOS window, for those of you running Win95/98/NT). What little Help you get looks like this: Tue 11-24-1998 22:23:55.29 G:\java\myfiles\project1>jre -cp .;polys.jar Main Help: | Enter: jre -cp .;polys.jar Main # c | # = valid scenario #; c = p|v|b (POV or VRML or both) | Defaults (if no args): # = 1, c = p | Default output: outfile.pov (Povray); outfile.wrl (VRML) | For this help enter with no # c parameters Precoded scenarios: 1. Testing translation/rotation 2. XYZ axes, Quadray axes 3. spheres in dodecas + cubocta 4. 5-fold symmetry shapes + rhdodeca + sphere 5. 12 spheres around a nuclear sphere In other words, if you enter: jre -cp .;polys.jar Main 4 b you'll get "5-fold symmetry shapes + rhdodeca + sphere" in two files: outfile.pov and outfile.wrl. To see what outfile.pov looks like after running the above, point your browser at: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/graphics/ch5a.gif Check out the corresponding VRML view (if your browser is equipped with the appropriate plug-in -- I'm using CosmoPlayer 2.1) point your browser at: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/worlds/ch5a.wrl (these two don't start from the same camera angle, but otherwise are recognizably the same). What's interesting here is if you have the JDK you can go into Main.java and add new "scenarios" of your own, by writing code modeled on the pre-defined 1-5. You get a library of concentric hierarchy polys to start with (plus a resizable unit-radius sphere), and the ability to translate, rotate and resize them at will (or mess with colors), at any point taking a snap shot for your output files. I also include complete source code for the com.pdx4d.polys package (what my Main class imports to support these foreground "scenarios"). This is not a fun graphical interface program like STRUCK however, and not nearly as sophisticated internally. Probably it will only seem like fun to someone just starting to play with Java, and also into synergetics -- someone like me for example (I've been having a lot of fun with this stuff). This is all a part of my self-directed study program, the results of which I quickly turn around and repackage for my website. I think some kids (and older) are tuning in -- not just doing a "nowhere man" thing here (cite 'Yellow Submarine'). For example, here's from my outbox from a day or two ago, representative of the kind of emails I sometimes get to answer... ==== At 10:55 PM 11/23/98 -0500, you wrote: > > I am interested in developing synergetic software at home, but am unsure >of what computer architecture to use - Linux or Windows. Do you have any >suggestions? > Thanks. I appreciate your site. > I'm playing around with Java these days and find it congenial, because even though I'm using Windows at the moment, I have reasonable confidance that my work will port to Linux without modifications -- "write once, run anywhere" is what they say... STRUCK is fine synergetics software, for example, and because it's written in Java, it runs on Linux as well.[1] I did some FORTRAN, APL, Assembler, SNOBOL, PL/1 in college (a lot of those I don't think anyone uses much anymore -- I'm old enough to have fed my code to an IBM mainframe on punched cards) but in the "real world" found myself using desktop database stuff a lot (dBase), which meant PCs (pre-Windows, only DOS). So, once on that track, I evolved with the technology: dbase II -> dBase III -> dbase IV -> FoxPro 2.0 -> FPW2.5 -> VFP -> etc. This accounts for the Windows-heavy use of VFP in my example synergetics software at http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/oop.html But that's just my personal history, and largely irrelevant to most programmers starting with a fresh slate today. I'm very intrigued by the Linux platform and have started making links to Linux sites from my Java version of the same program I first introduce in VFP at http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/oop5.html (that's the page I'm working on right now, so you'll see it change in the next several hours). Thanks for writing. Glad you're getting some value out of my site. Kirby PS: note that Rick Bono's DOME, which is good at outputting dome- related info in numerous formats, is written in C and has been incorporated into the open source Debian distribution of Linux, thanks to Chris Fearnley & Co. If you're not familiar with these links (from my site), I can direct you to relevant web pages. [1] re Struck: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/struck.html ==== Kirby PS: happy thanksgiving to all of you. Planning to drop in to visit Russell Kasman-Chu and family enroute to family get- together west of Seattle. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:35:45 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: dedalus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0714_01BE180B.8A1CC240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0714_01BE180B.8A1CC240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unsubscribe ------=_NextPart_000_0714_01BE180B.8A1CC240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Unsubscribe
------=_NextPart_000_0714_01BE180B.8A1CC240-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:08:16 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: drawing of week for nov 12 Comments: cc: halchaos4@EMAIL.MSN.COM In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:59 AM 11/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings, > >It is not acceptable to send such files to an email list. This has >happened many times before from this fellow. > >Could someone please desubscribe and permanently filter this dolt? > >Or: How can I contact the administrator to get this done? > >All best wishes, > >Gordon Rumson > I've complained to him before about this, too. I don't know that we should be so heavy-handed as to just remove him from the list, but it's definitely a technical possiblity. It's a very simple matter to set up your own email filters to just delete mail from a person (or with a certain subject, such as "drawing of week", although that would also filter out this message! :-) (Unless you did more complex filtering of the author AND the subject.) I just wish he'd put his pictures on a website and post the URL. That's an acceptible and wise use of the bandwidth. It's definitely an abuse of the listserv to post big graphic files which swamp people's mailboxes and modem lines. There are more than 150 people subscribe to the list via email, and it goes to thousands of other machines that carry the bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup, so this does, in fact, constitute a fairly hefty waste of network bandwidth. Hal, once again, I'm asking you to PLEASE just post this on a website, and give a URL reference. If you don't have a website, or don't know how to post pages, then now might be a great time to learn. There are a lot of folks on this list who could help with this. Please utilize the strengths of the members of this community, but please don't abuse them with constant data-flooding that they don't want. Anyone else care to voice their thoughts on this matter? Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ Check out the Reality Sculptors Project: http://reality.sculptors.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:24:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: Re: geodesic junk mail Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU In-Reply-To: <364b8a02.77401408@alumni.princeton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:24 AM 11/13/98 GMT, Kirby Urner wrote: >On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:37:27 +0200, you wrote: > >>Please take us off your mailing list, as we don't want to receive any junk >>mail from yourselves. >> >>Ruth Balnk >>dalson@global.co.za > > >Does anybody subscribe others to GEODESIC without permission. >Seems we get a lot of these complaints, yet the standard >listserv makes it the responsibility of the subscriber to >handle getting on AND getting off. Is Ruth a victim of >someone else signing her up, or just ignorant about her >responsibility to unsubscribe herself? > >Kirby I think the latter. I've sent her a note about how to sign off, and have removed her from the list. Pat ___________________Think For Yourself____________________ Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ Check out the Reality Sculptors Project: http://reality.sculptors.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:13:39 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: geodesic junk mail In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981125172418.009ea3c4@mailhost.sculptors.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > At 01:24 AM 11/13/98 GMT, Kirby Urner wrote: .....................>>>>>>>>> > >On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:37:27 +0200, you wrote: > >>Please take us off your mailing list, as we don't want to receive any junk > >>mail from yourselves. > >> > >>Ruth Balnk > >>dalson@global.co.za > > > > > >Does anybody subscribe others to GEODESIC without permission. > >Seems we get a lot of these complaints, yet the standard > >listserv makes it the responsibility of the subscriber to > >handle getting on AND getting off. Is Ruth a victim of > >someone else signing her up, or just ignorant about her > >responsibility to unsubscribe herself? > > > >Kirby > I think the latter. I've sent her a note about how to sign off, and have > removed her from the list. > > > Pat ...........REPLY FROM john belt to Kirby & Pat + list all I have also sent the complete file to the above address within the past two weeks and explained it as well and do this frequently to those who post messages to signoff in hopes that there will not be copycat attempts. Some reply with thanks, most do not, many repeat the post attempt again. Regardless, Happy Everything to all around the planet holiday or not. john belt, Oswego, New York ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:46:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Riversong Subject: Re: Fuller and Modelability In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Generally, i have noticed that only 3D models will do the trick. You can get some value conceptualizing with computer models, but there's nothing like the mass of a model sitting in front of you, to get the full effect of a concept. I believe that there has been a lot of drifting off into a sort of "nowhere land" within the field of Synergetics. We have a few people out there who are spewing out tremendous amounts of verbiage which tends to be very confusing and actually has the effect of making it harder to learn the basic concepts. Some of this excess verbiage, including complex interpretations of Fuller's work, comes directly from all the computer modelling going on. Concepts shown on a computer may or may not be workable. Synergetics concepts shouldn't be that hard -- after all, it is supposed to be the way nature itself works. And if you can't demonstrate a concept supposedly from nature in three dimensions, perhaps the concept itself is flawed. At 09:13 PM 11/22/98 -0800, you wrote: >A defining characteristic of synergetics is modelability. Sections 203.08 >and 445.18 state synergetics is always modelable. Elsewhere, although I >cannot find the reference, I believe Fuller stated synergetics was >inherently modelable: if a physical model could not demonstrate an idea, >it would be removed from synergetics. > >My question is: Does the requirement for modelability in synergetics >rightly include computer graphic models? Computer graphic models can >'behave' in ways that simulate the physical world but they are not the >physical world - and it was physical models that (I believe) Fuller stated >were essential to synergetics. As I understand it, Fuller included >nothing in synergetics that could not be represented by a physical model. >Are computer graphic models, therefore, pseudo-synergetics? > >-- > Trevor Blake box2321@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~box2321/ > Post Office Box 2321, Portland Oregon 97208-2321, United States > > -- Michael Riversong temporary address: c/o MK Ranch School P.O. Box 428 * Reserve NM 87830 Professional Harpist & Environmental Consultant web address: http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:54:52 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: geodesic HAL mail <> Brian Hutchings 26-NOV-1998 4:54 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us aren't you people behaving a bit like Luddites?... HAL is just a humble prototype, trying to live "up" to his modest designers' abilities; don't TILT him! thus quoth: There are more than 150 people subscribe to the list via email, and goes to thousands of other machines that carry the bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup, so this does, in fact, constitute a fairly hefty waste of network bandwidth. --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:05:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Fuller's Modelabilities <> Brian Hutchings 26-NOV-1998 5:05 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Kill your television -- sodomize your 'node {*} !! -- * that is, do to your terminal, what God also did to Gamorrah -- when necessary (or before the'00 Odometer Problem .-) thus quoth: interpretations of Fuller's work, comes directly from all the computer modelling going on. Concepts shown on a computer may or may not be workable. Synergetics concepts shouldn't be that hard -- after all, it is supposed to be the way nature itself works. And if you can't demonstrate a concept supposedly from nature in three dimensions, perhaps the concept --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:58:52 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Human software and pseudo synergetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE192B.C1595D60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE192B.C1595D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First I'd like to thank Spaceship Earth for his fucking hillarious = private e-mail. Thanks guy. Russel, computer modelling as done by Mr. Jong is not pseudo, because = his work is not illusionary. He his trying very much to create realistic = models. Pseudo by definition means sham or illusion. The Wright brothers = extrapolated very accurate aerodynamic data using scaled down "models" = of wings and etc. in their homemade wind tunnel. Data that has been = proven correct, as in realistic and useful, over and over again. Gerald = has his work cut out for him but it's not unreal for his Struck computer = models to eventually generate useful data. Your sub atomic models = (cyrstal structures) Can only be modeled as you've modeled them. I see = your work as snap shots vis a vie X-ray cyrstalography. Real time = imaging of bucky balls are blurred because they are spinning in place. Human software: In my interaction with the folks working on a nanosuper computer I = suggested that to really transmit humans over long distance they would = have to die, by medical standards of the present anyways. A copy of your = genome would be transmitted over a distance, (Maybe a few hundred light = years?). Mr Fuller suggested that it would be possible to do this some = day. I pointed out to a person that his genome (Kinda like a map of = where every atom in his body is and goes) will be transmitted as data to = a machine that would use local resources to reconstruct him. The reason = for not transmitting a person's parts is simple if you transmit 150 lbs = of chemicals at any where near light speed you'll use a lot of energy to = do so. It's better to transmit the data and reconstruct the person. When = described as I just did people don't seem to like the idea of = transporting, (ala Star Trek) including the Trekies hahaha. But it is = the only real way to transport humans over long distances. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE192B.C1595D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
First I'd like to thank Spaceship Earth for his = fucking=20 hillarious private e-mail. Thanks guy.

Russel, computer modelling as done by Mr. Jong = is not=20 pseudo, because his work is not illusionary. He his trying very much to = create=20 realistic models. Pseudo by definition means sham or illusion. The = Wright=20 brothers extrapolated very accurate aerodynamic data using scaled down=20 "models" of wings and etc. in their homemade wind tunnel. Data = that=20 has been proven correct, as in realistic and useful, over and over = again.=20 Gerald has his work cut out for him but it's not unreal for his Struck = computer=20 models to eventually generate useful data. Your sub atomic models = (cyrstal=20 structures) Can only be modeled as you've modeled them. I see your work = as snap=20 shots vis a vie X-ray cyrstalography. Real time imaging of bucky balls = are=20 blurred because they are spinning in place.

Human software:

In my interaction with the folks working on a = nanosuper=20 computer I suggested that to really transmit humans over long distance = they=20 would have to die, by medical standards of the present anyways. A copy = of your=20 genome would be transmitted over a distance, (Maybe a few hundred light = years?).=20 Mr Fuller suggested that it would be possible to do this some day. I = pointed out=20 to a person that his genome (Kinda like a map of where every atom in his = body is=20 and goes) will be transmitted as data to a machine that would use local=20 resources to reconstruct him. The reason for not transmitting a person's = parts=20 is simple if you transmit 150 lbs of chemicals at any where near light = speed=20 you'll use a lot of energy to do so. It's better to transmit the data = and=20 reconstruct the person. When described as I just did people don't seem = to like=20 the idea of transporting, (ala Star Trek) including the Trekies = hahaha. =20 But it is the only real way to transport humans over long = distances. =20
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE192B.C1595D60-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:12:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Somers Subject: Mir political football. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE193E.6F0DE180" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE193E.6F0DE180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unky Brian, the only reason NASA has anything to do with Mir is so they = can help maintain the Russian Space program, as in helping out the old = competition kind of stuff etc. The joint space programs also allows the = paranoids in the Pentagon to keep some tabs on advanced technologies = used in Russia and also helps to keep the higher echalon of scientists = of both nations talking to one another. Also in all great studies of the = geopolitics you would know that joint programs amongst nations helps to = lessen paranoia in general and helps to create a more humanistic = attitude amongst the citizens of all nations involved. I guess you need = to be reminding that NASA didn't build Mir in the first place, since the = construction of space exploration artifacts was one of the points I was = making. Geeeesh, man you sure can twist stuff. Also pray tell who was = the astronaut who was going to be thrown in jail if he didn't go to tp = Mir (This I gotta hear). Also let me point out that in a lot of cases = the Russians even when they were the baby killing Soviets created more = escape and rescue systems into their space craft then the US did and = does. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE193E.6F0DE180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Unky Brian, the only reason NASA has = anything to=20 do with Mir is so they can help maintain the Russian Space program, as = in=20 helping out the old competition kind of stuff etc. The joint space = programs also=20 allows the paranoids in the Pentagon to keep some tabs on advanced = technologies=20 used in Russia and also helps to keep the higher echalon of scientists = of both=20 nations talking to one another. Also in all great studies of the = geopolitics you=20 would know that joint programs amongst nations helps to lessen paranoia = in=20 general and helps to create a more humanistic attitude amongst the = citizens of=20 all nations involved. I guess you need to be reminding that NASA didn't = build=20 Mir in the first place, since the construction of space exploration = artifacts=20 was one of the points I was making. Geeeesh, man you sure can twist = stuff. Also=20 pray tell who was the astronaut who was going to be thrown in jail if he = didn't=20 go to tp Mir (This I gotta hear). Also let me point out that in a = lot of=20 cases the Russians even when they were the baby killing Soviets created = more=20 escape and rescue systems into their space craft then the US did and=20 does.
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE193E.6F0DE180-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:59:22 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Mir political football. <> Brian Hutchings 26-NOV-1998 17:59 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us it was the British one, Foale, I think, who was coerced into going; it was just mentioned in passing on the show, since the host doesn't see any implications, being an (apparent) follower of the HG "Wells of Doom" school of post-industrial utopianists (in his paid work, which he sometimes plugs, he teaches all sorts of soft-science stuff at a local college, and writing, and computer-graphics or "science" as we haltingly say). the author had some "logical" explanation for the near-wipe-out with teh Specter module, but I'z zuzpicious, slightly -- ever-so! certainly, the other part of the co-operation is to do *some* thing to stop the Russians from "leasing the nukes, and their systems of delivery". fortunately, Primakov, Glassyev etc.are taking things out from under the diktat of the insane Free Marketeers at Hahvahd and the IMF --at this rate, Russia and China will still be economically standing, without the USA, as the "geopolitcs" of Iraq and Bibe and Monica have kept him from following through on his glimmer of rationality, at that August meeting of the CFR -- whereas we are saddled with these beancounting entities with their bogus slogan for global outsourcing, "faster,better, cheaper pussycat" . by the way, "Yuo", I don't "twist stuff"; I torque it with a calibrated wrench til it squeals! --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:21:24 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Human software and pseudo synergetics <> Brian Hutchings 26-NOV-1998 18:21 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us well, that's the "point"; whatever physical or numerical "model", it has to be checked-back, constatntly, with the thing-being modelled; take the "global" warming model -- please!... Stuck may give some hints about some behaciors, but it is (was) a far-cry from modellign anything I can think of. on the other hand, the fundamental principle of Universe, Tensegrity --it's just one of them-- puts it naturally as some advantage or forefront (or avant garde, at any rate .-) as for teleportation, you hit the nail on the flat part; there is no foreseeable way to get around the principle of uncertainty, hence you are minimally deadmeat, if not ground round, at the transmitter. of course, that *is* embodied in the Star Trek format, which I am assuming was (local) lightspeed "teleportation", although I may have missed a fabulous episode of hijinx with a Starfleeter's "double". anyway, I'm sure, the Starfllet Manual says some thing about "total conversion of folks into energy, and prayerfully back, again"; if Trekkers have a problem with that, blast'em! thus quoth: extrapolated very accurate aerodynamic data using scaled down "models" = of wings and etc. in their homemade wind tunnel. Data that has been = proven correct, as in realistic and useful, over and over again. Gerald = has his work cut out for him but it's not unreal for his Struck computer = models to eventually generate useful data. Your sub atomic models = (cyrstal structures) Can only be modeled as you've modeled them. I see = --The End Was Nigh! http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 02:32:13 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Human software and pseudo synergetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'Imagine a three-ring circus -- high wire act, blaring bands, clowning, and all -- with one man as the whole show. That will give you a feeble idea of "Nine Chains to the Moon," by R. Buckminster Fuller, engineer extraordinary, inventor of the Dymaxion car and house, seer, and scientifico -- a philosophical whirling dervish spinning with a high tension hum on the edge of the Deep End.' --Sinclair Lewis > Mark Somers wrote: > > First I'd like to thank Spaceship Earth for his fucking hillarious private e-mail. Thanks guy. > Every endeavor, great or small, can benefit from a health sense of humor. Humor is considered an asset to personal success. Is it any less necessary for the achievement of complete success for all humanity? Robert Muller wrote about the benefits of humor in his book Most Of All They Taught Me Happiness. He said that many people visiting the United Nations are surprised to see delegates crack jokes over matters of the most serious nature. He said that humor can ease tensions and help ease a serious situation. The goal of the design science revolution is to ease the serious nature of the human condition. It's hard to put a smiling face on poverty, hunger, and war, but talk of gloom and doom makes people turn away. The design science revolution could benefit from a little humor, and I hope to inject more into it. I'm glad you got a chuckle out of my message. Best wishes to you and for all during this season of holiday cheer. Sincerely, Spaceship Earth mail@SpaceshipEarth.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 04:03:10 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Human software and pseudo synergetics <> Brian Hutchings 27-NOV-1998 4:03 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us OK, Chuckles, but I have to question this pet-author of yours on the proverbial sanctity of the UN, so, if you don't get a laugh, kick my face virutally in. what I mean is, how do we see from any context, that mister Moller is not using, or was not observing, merely cynical sarcasm -- with no end in sight, speaking of gloom? what I mean is, Moller may be very caring, or effective, but the sacrosanct tones for the UN belie its origins, agenda and its monstrous record (and also recall, the IMF, WTO, MAI etc.are all under the UN parasol). I also mean, on the multiculti front, the breeteesh comnwelth is ahead of the curve, in the mindless bread, circuses & cabinet wars for the coming 3-digit odometer-spiel; watch it, man! thus quoth: about the benefits of humor in his book Most Of All They Taught Me Happiness He said that many people visiting the United Nations are surprised to see delegates crack jokes over matters of the most serious nature. He said that humor can ease tensions and help ease a serious situation. The goal of the design science revolution is to ease the serious nature of the human condition. It's hard to put a smiling face on poverty, hunger, and war, but talk of gloom and doom makes people turn away. The design science revolution --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 05:55:02 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: Human software and pseudo synergetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I often use cynicism and sarcasm as a form of humor. Perhaps I should behave myself more. And yes, I'm sure that this was what Robert Muller often observed and engaged in. This form of humor can sometimes help in a tense situation, especially if you're surrounded by a lot of other people that can protect you from the person who is the butt of your joke. Sincerely, Spaceship Earth mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Brian Hutchings wrote: > > <> Brian Hutchings 27-NOV-1998 4:03 > r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us > > OK, Chuckles, but I have to question this pet-author of yours > on the proverbial sanctity of the UN, so, if > you don't get a laugh, kick my face virutally in. > what I mean is, how do we see from any context, that > mister Moller is not using, or was not observing, merely cynical sarcasm > -- with no end in sight, speaking of gloom? > what I mean is, Moller may be very caring, or effective, but > the sacrosanct tones for the UN belie its origins, agenda and > its monstrous record (and also recall, > the IMF, WTO, MAI etc.are all under the UN parasol). > I also mean, on the multiculti front, > the breeteesh comnwelth is ahead of the curve, > in the mindless bread, circuses & cabinet wars > for the coming 3-digit odometer-spiel; watch it, man! > > thus quoth: > about the benefits of humor in his book Most Of All They Taught Me Happiness > He said that many people visiting the United Nations are surprised to see > delegates crack jokes over matters of the most serious nature. He said that > humor can ease tensions and help ease a serious situation. The goal of the > design science revolution is to ease the serious nature of the human > condition. It's hard to put a smiling face on poverty, hunger, and war, but > talk of gloom and doom makes people turn away. The design science revolution > > --The Duke of Oil > http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:06:34 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: [Fwd: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael: I'm glad you found some interest in that. I wish I had more internet resources relevant to the topic of Dwelling Machines. The article Dwelling Machine, Sweet Dwelling Machine (http://www.suck.com/daily/97/06/16/index.html) makes the following observations: "Bill Gates's boxy, bulked-up bungalow lacks the Jetsonic streamlining of past Houses of the Future" "in recent years, many mainstream-oriented Houses of the Future have concentrated on systems and products, rather than the actual structure of the house itself." An article in the Christian Science Monitor a few days ago said that electronic equipment for "Smart Houses" has become a booming business and is becoming a predominant aspect of the housing industry, with big companies like Microsoft and Intel looking to cash in on it. We're plugging in more and more sophisticated Space Age gadgetry into Dark Ages structures. We're trying to create smart house out of dumb buildings. Obviously, our buildings need a complete redesign from the top down. With equipment for smart houses entering the mainstream, I think this is a sign that humanity is ready to break out of our outmoded structural design. Build it and they will come! Here are more resources on Dwelling Machines. Dwelling Machine Prototypes Page at Synergetics on the Web: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeproto.html The two designs at the bottom of this page are a variation of Buckminster Fuller's Fly's Eye dome that are suitable for mass production: http://www3.sympatico.ca/geodome/others.htm I liked what I saw at New Millennium Geodesics: Solutions to get the synergetic benefits of geodesics into multi-storied structures. Basic concepts for putting multi-story flooring into a geodesic building that allows for a synergistic method of suspension. Concepts to bear in mind as you view the images may be; earthquakes, zero G or rotating space environments, underwater and 'aquacultural' environments, and other "Science-fictiony" scenarios. http://www.magusbooks.com/reg/index.html Does anyone have any information about John Kuhtik's Fly's Eye Dome project? He does not seem to have a website. This project had a webpage. Does anyone have any current information? Dr. Rob Stewart. The Superefficiency Trust Dymaxion House. The Home of the Future. Graphic by Raffaele De Angelis. The Superefficiency Trust is being started in the UK in 1996 as a charitable organization. A project, based on Mull, to produce a virtually self-sufficient house. I made this note from a message to the DomeHome mailing list (http://www.seagull.net/rowley/DomeHome/index.html) from Jay Salsburg. Jay Salsburg is working on a new dome book. Software for geodesic visualization will be included in the book to demonstrate the varied aspects and subtleties of geodesic math, both conventional and obscure. His intent is to dispel all errant notions of design. Many problems still exist with establishing design criteria. Most designs seen today are quite primitive. Companies like Temcor and Geometrica seem to be the most highly evolved. The object of this treatise is to cut a 'Critical Path' to a better design for dwellings. If Jay Salsburg is on this list, perhaps he could fill us in more on this interesting endeavor. Perhaps Kirby Urner or someone can inspire us with some news from the Synergetics on the Web Dwelling Machine project. Hopefully others will hop in and provide some links to more information relevant to the topic of Dwelling Machines which can be posted on a forthcoming website devoted to the subject. Sincerely, Spaceship Earth mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Michael S Mitchell wrote: > > >INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE PRE-ENGINEERED BUILDING SYSTEMS > >THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA - COLLEGE OF ARCHITECTURE > >http://www.ou.edu/class/hgruenwald/teach/5970/5972.htm > > > >BUILDING SYSTEMS OVERVIEW (includes many references to Buckminster Fuller) > >http://www.ou.edu/class/hgruenwald/teach/5970/5972l2.htm > > Thank you for the over view I found it very inspiring. Michael S. Mitchell And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. -- Luke 10:5 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:13:04 -0500 Reply-To: mail@SpaceshipEarth.com Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Spaceship Earth Organization: SpaceshipEarth.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One more for the road: Nebula Dome will withstand 250 mile an hour winds and only weighs 2 pounds per square foot. The entire building can be prefabricated and shipped anywhere on earth. This is a beautiful design. http://www.globalnow.com/nightlife/threed.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:43:54 -1200 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Nenad Asanovic Subject: A new contact person Comments: To: Ronan Brunton Comments: cc: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com, etieric@club-internet.fr, btmexport@superonline.com, Manuela Boisvert , samago@ms.anet.cz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Sirs: Starting November 25 1998 new employee and a contact person in the �Draco merx� d.o.o. is Mr. Nenad Asanovic. Therefore, we kindly ask you to address your future E-mail, fax or telephone messages to him, from now on. Kind regards, draco merx d.o.o. Rodrigina 4A, 21000 Split tel/fax: 021/341255 email: draco-merx@st.tel.hr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:46:09 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Reg Monroe Subject: Re: Fwd: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Just a note regarding a recent post from Spaceship Earth, in which was listed a good group of web sites for homes and structures of the future. At the present my site, New Millennium Geodesics, is temporarily down. As much as a service as the list in the mentioned post is, I felt it would be a disservice to not say something for those wishing to check out the NMG site. It should be back up again, with some new images, more on the promised floor suspension, and a new section for those that might enjoy some less-than-real- world applications. I will let all know when the NMG site is back up. I also have a question that has bothered me for a while and possibly some of the RBF scholars can give me the answer: As has been discussed to any given length on this list, it is generally held that Bucky had no desire to attain great wealth (at least after the Lake Michigan epiphany). So why did he feel the need to patent his inventions? It just seems a little counterproductive to hamper those wishing to investigate his inventions by making them license to RBF for their use. What am I missing? Thanks to all, Reg ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:13:02 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Gordon Rumson Subject: Re: Fwd: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I also have a question that has bothered me for a while and possibly some >of the RBF scholars can give me the answer: > As has been discussed to any given length on this list, it is generally >held that Bucky had no desire to attain great wealth (at least after the Lake >Michigan epiphany). So why did he feel the need to patent his inventions? It >just seems a little counterproductive to hamper those wishing to investigate >his inventions by making them license to RBF for their use. What am I missing? > > Thanks to all, > Reg Greetings, As I understand it part of his reason was to have an official dating for the invention. This would be of use for evaluating the progress of knowledge. It would also have given him a degree of control that the invention would actually be used: there seem to be cases (in the combustion engine area, for example) where inventions are withheld by powerful corporations when the invention would have cut into the profits. Fuller would then have been able to prevent this to some degree. However, the patenting of knowledge is one of the signs of human insanity. It is a clot in the process towards human success. Ultimately even Fuller could not escape his own time. All best wishes, Gordon Rumson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:17:25 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: Fwd: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE <> Brian Hutchings 28-NOV-1998 2:17 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us surely, their are problems with patenting, and particularly with the latest "harmonization" a-pending of the USPTO, with its "first-to-file" criterium, instead of first to invent. as a *dirigiste* spur to innovation, though, it has been great; unfortunately, the currently "mainstream" economists are definitively on the side of the cartels in all things, with their "trade is freedom" ideology of Adam Smith et al (London School of British Imperialism, anyone?... George Soros knows about that !-) I know, Bucky suggested that no-one after him should need to do it, and he may be correct, but not yet, quite, and not taking his faulty assumptions seriously, at the same time; eh? thus quoth: However, the patenting of knowledge is one of the signs of human insanity. It is a clot in the process towards human success. Ultimately even Fuller it really was the most officious (and, now, readily accessible) part of the Chronofile! --The Duke of Oil http://www.tarpley.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:01:21 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hal mc whinnie Subject: thought of the day nov 28 1998 " the human mind's access to the mathematics of generalized scientific laws governing physical phenomena in general made possible humanity's preoduction of its own detailed - from-self wrings to outfly all birds in space and altitude, while being able to kloan one another those wings and modify them to produce ever better wings. " fuller critical path pp 63 "In our humans in the universe chapter we spoke about 600-200 bc greek's discovery that our earth is a sphere and a planet of the solar system. this was the typical scientific product of a water-navigation people" fuller pp 71 Fuller was a master of the glass bead game, in fact he was the magister ludi for the 1970"s. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:08:35 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hal mc whinnie Subject: thought of the day nov 29 "The way the power structure keeps the wit and cunning of the intelligentsia- who are not musclemen, who cannot do the physical fighting- from making trouble for the power structure[ if the intelligentsia are too broadly informed, unwatched, and with time on their own in which to think is to make each one a specialists with tools and an office or a lab. that is exactly why bright people today have become streamlined into specialists" fuller critical path PP 62 that is why over the centuries the glass bead game developed and its players have been content to play roles, follow the rules of the game, and have been led by the magister ludi of each age or period. the current magister ludi is ?Clifford Pickover of IBM ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:15:17 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Fwd: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) Establish an official date of an idea 2) Prevent others from patenting & burying his ideas 3) Cause the US gov to publish his ideas 4) Cause foreign govs (with patent treaties with the US) to publish his ideas in many foreign languages 5) Establish his own credibility Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gordon Rumson > Sent: Friday, November 27, 1998 3:13 PM > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Fwd: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE > > > > I also have a question that has bothered me for a while and > possibly some > >of the RBF scholars can give me the answer: > > As has been discussed to any given length on this list, it is > generally > >held that Bucky had no desire to attain great wealth (at least > after the Lake > >Michigan epiphany). So why did he feel the need to patent his > inventions? It > >just seems a little counterproductive to hamper those wishing to > investigate > >his inventions by making them license to RBF for their use. What > am I missing? > > > > Thanks to all, > > Reg > > Greetings, > > As I understand it part of his reason was to have an official dating for > the invention. This would be of use for evaluating the progress of > knowledge. > > It would also have given him a degree of control that the invention would > actually be used: there seem to be cases (in the combustion engine area, > for example) where inventions are withheld by powerful corporations when > the invention would have cut into the profits. > > Fuller would then have been able to prevent this to some degree. > > However, the patenting of knowledge is one of the signs of human insanity. > It is a clot in the process towards human success. Ultimately even Fuller > could not escape his own time. > > All best wishes, > > Gordon Rumson > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:21:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "Lawrence E. Couey" Organization: CATT/FX Informationing Subject: Re: Fwd: INDUSTRIALIZATION AND ARCHITECTURE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5583AB1881D57483814C7858" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5583AB1881D57483814C7858 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reg, I can think of some reasons for Bucky patenting his ideas: The first and most important reason is that a patent has to be FULLY DISCLOSED to the public. The knowledge is available to everyone. Any and Everyone can then play with the knowledge and extend it! Some people have used a patent to stop the building of some objects by not allowing anyone to build it for the purpose of making money or by making it very expensive to do so. Bucky wanted as many people as possible to build his patents and play with them, try new materials and combinations of material. By patenting an object, people wishing to make money from his ideas would have to at least contact him. He would then know who was trying to make money and extent his knowledge, thus getting more and more people to feed him with more knowledge about extensions to his work! A pretty smart idea, for the most part. Lawrence C. Reg Monroe wrote: > Just a note regarding a recent post from Spaceship Earth, in which was > listed a good group of web sites for homes and structures of the future. At > the present my site, New Millennium Geodesics, is temporarily down. As much as > a service as the list in the mentioned post is, I felt it would be a > disservice to not say something for those wishing to check out the NMG site. > It should be back up again, with some new images, more on the promised floor > suspension, and a new section for those that might enjoy some less-than-real- > world applications. I will let all know when the NMG site is back up. > > I also have a question that has bothered me for a while and possibly some > of the RBF scholars can give me the answer: > As has been discussed to any given length on this list, it is generally > held that Bucky had no desire to attain great wealth (at least after the Lake > Michigan epiphany). So why did he feel the need to patent his inventions? It > just seems a little counterproductive to hamper those wishing to investigate > his inventions by making them license to RBF for their use. What am I missing? > > Thanks to all, > Reg -- --------------------------------------------- Lawrence E. Couey - Convivial Applied Theoretical Technologies/ FX Informationing - mailto:LECouey@INet-1.com --------------------------------------------- --------------5583AB1881D57483814C7858 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="LECouey.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Lawrence E. Couey Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="LECouey.vcf" begin:vcard n:Couey;Lawrence E. tel;work:801.489.8773 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:CATT/FX Informationing adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:LECouey@inet-1.com title:Senior R&D Software Engineer x-mozilla-cpt:;-1 fn:Lawrence E. Couey end:vcard --------------5583AB1881D57483814C7858-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:27:53 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Reg Monroe Subject: Re: RBF patent reasoning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yeh, but Joe- 1) An ad to the NY Times will establish a date more accurately. And MUCH more cheaply. 2) The same ad will most likely curtail any attempt by others to patent. But a filing to copyright (same office, less rigmarole) will achieve the same goal, namely- establish the idea(s) in the public domain. (which is all the USPTO needs to upset a patent filing.) 3) Who cares what the government publishes? RBF could do a much better job, and much more cheaply per copy, in a way the public at large could actually understand. (As opposed to the legalese the USPTO demands and publishes.) However, to a minor extent I have to agree on points 4 and 5. But the cost for all this just cannot be offset, or even make sense, UNLESS one plans on a some kind of monetary return. So now I guess my questions are: What kind of licensing charges did RBF actually ask from his licensees? Did he ever have to defend any of his patents in court? (Are the two related?) Are there any documents stating RBF's views on the whole patent process? And most importantly, just how much money did he make on his patents? I really do appreciate your reply to the ML regarding my question, Joe. I realize the sensitivity of most of us toward RBF's work and memory. I am not trying to assail anyone's 'sacred Bucky', I think we all revere him in our own way. I'm just trying to put myself in his time frame (the 40's and 50's were not like now) with his monetary philosophy and somehow rationalize his need for patents. Reg ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:50:05 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hal mc whinnie Subject: thought of the day nov 29 "It is the very essence of my thinking that, for a principle to qualify as generalizable in science, there must be no known exception to its reliability. exceptionless means eternal. Principles can be only eternal."fuller critical path PP 158 it is of some interest that Louis sullivan claim the same status for form follows function beginning Dec 1 1998 on my thought of the day I will explore the writings of Louis sullivan with thoughts of fuller in mind. if interested send me an email to join list. thoughts will be sent as attached files in word or HTML formats and there will be graphics as attachments. THE FIRST LAW OF SELF SIMILARITY first principle for chaos theory "at every level in a non-linear dynnamitical system there is to be discovered some elements of self-similarity at some level in that system" I wonder what fuller would have thought about this idea. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:55:40 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: hal mc whinnie Subject: thought of the day nov 30 "Acknowledging the mathmetically elegant intellectual integrity of eternally regenerative universe is one way of identifying god. " fuller critical path PP 159 God may also be identified as the synergy of the interbehavorial relationships of all the principles unpredicated by the behaviors on characteristics of any of the principles considered openly separately" fuller PP 159 TOWARDS A SECOND LAW OF SELF SIMILARITY [ CHAOS] ""the nears the fractal dimension of any non-linear dynamically system approaches the value of the golden section 1.61418 the nearer that the system is towards a stability or order.: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:47:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Riversong Subject: Re: RBF patent reasoning In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In his book "Ideas and Integriteis" RBF went into great detail as to why he took out patents. In essence, he said it was only for documentation. He expected no financial gain from them, and also mentioned that each one cost about $50,000 to file. That's a good book to have around, as it exhibits a lot of great stuff he was doing at that time. At 09:27 AM 11/29/98 EST, you wrote: >Yeh, but Joe- > 1) An ad to the NY Times will establish a date more accurately. And MUCH more >cheaply. > 2) The same ad will most likely curtail any attempt by others to patent. But >a filing to copyright (same office, less rigmarole) will achieve the same >goal, namely- establish the idea(s) in the public domain. (which is all the >USPTO needs to upset a patent filing.) > 3) Who cares what the government publishes? RBF could do a much better job, >and much more cheaply per copy, in a way the public at large could actually >understand. (As opposed to the legalese the USPTO demands and publishes.) > However, to a minor extent I have to agree on points 4 and 5. But the cost >for all this just cannot be offset, or even make sense, UNLESS one plans on a >some kind of monetary return. > So now I guess my questions are: What kind of licensing charges did RBF >actually ask from his licensees? Did he ever have to defend any of his patents >in court? (Are the two related?) Are there any documents stating RBF's views >on the whole patent process? And most importantly, just how much money did he >make on his patents? > I really do appreciate your reply to the ML regarding my question, Joe. I >realize the sensitivity of most of us toward RBF's work and memory. I am not >trying to assail anyone's 'sacred Bucky', I think we all revere him in our own >way. I'm just trying to put myself in his time frame (the 40's and 50's were >not like now) with his monetary philosophy and somehow rationalize his need >for patents. > Reg > > -- Michael Riversong temporary address: c/o MK Ranch School P.O. Box 428 * Reserve NM 87830 Professional Harpist & Environmental Consultant web address: http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:01:49 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Belt Subject: Re: thought of the day nov 29 In-Reply-To: <000301be1b86$eee7f860$8ef02299@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, hal mc whinnie wrote: > "It is the very essence of my thinking that, for a principle to qualify as > generalizable in science, there must be no known exception to its > reliability. exceptionless means eternal. Principles can be only > eternal."fuller critical path PP 158 > > it is of some interest that Louis sullivan claim the same status for form > follows function > > beginning Dec 1 1998 on my thought of the day I will explore the writings of > Louis sullivan with thoughts of fuller in mind. > ..........................REPLY ............................. ..................... Hi Hal, Before Sullivan, architect Henry Greenough also used the often quoted "form follows function" which is covered in a small book "Form and Function" (think this is the correct title) and i think he attributes the concept to someone earlier. Best, john belt Oswego, New York ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:35:12 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Octet structures Comments: To: Hop In-Reply-To: <3661C8FB.39128355@tabletoptelephone.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Hop, Thanks for the feedback; I hope to fix all the bad URLs & add new ones with my next update, but it's a big job as I have hundreds of links on my webpages. I took a look at your excellent site & on 10-3-98 I posted (with a cc to you) a notice to the Geodesic newsletter about your "Delta Blocks". It was a very short email with the relevant URL, so you may have missed it. The Geodesic newsletter ("list") has between 100-200 subscribers and is also gatewayed to the Geodesic newsgroup which has somewhere between 5,000-10,000 readers. I usually reply through the Geodesic newsletter so that all may benefit from the information exchange. Sincerely, Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Hop [mailto:hopspage@tabletoptelephone.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 1998 2:22 PM > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > Subject: Octet structures > > > Two links on your Octet links page seem to be dead: Biosphere and Moody > Gardens. > > I've compiled a page of octet structures (mostly from links given by you > and Kirby Urner). There are some here that aren't included on your page > though. > http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Octets.html > > A stellated octahedron can be made into a fractal in fashion similar to > making a Koch snowflake from a Star of David. The outer surface goes > towards a cube. Under neath the surface of this "ice cube" bubbles are > trapped. The bubbles form Sierpinksi octahedra: > http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Kplrfrct.html > > And last, but not least, my octet toy idea: > http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Index.html > > >From your page I believe we have a lot in common. You never acknowledged > my October 3 letter though. If you don't answer this one, I'll assume > you don't want to be pestered and will try to remember not to write any > more. > > Regards, > > Hop > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:44:00 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings <> Brian Hutchings 30-NOV-1998 3:44 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us Fuller'd have said, Don't reveal your invention before it's finished!... in other word, Phooey; any rudimentary study of any geometry (viz, _Modern Pure Solid Geometry_) will scratch teh surface of such a bewildering array of interrelationships with varying sorts of "self-similarity" or self-dyssimilarity, or others-similarity, or what ever -- a kind of a binary choice; eh? "dynnamitical systems" in deed, and your "second law" is even sillier (but I know what you're referring to .-) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:59:47 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Brian Hutchings Subject: Re: RBF patent reasoning <> Brian Hutchings 30-NOV-1998 3:59 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us uh-oh; here comes the Dymaxion Sensitivity Training Squad (lke Kindergarten, it precedes Education Automation) !! I had (at one time, at least) a book by Bucky's personal patent-officer, which was interesting; I wich O could recall a dang thing from it. anyway, there was no comparison with patenting in those days, with the intensely "globaloneyized" "LAWCAP" of today, plus it was really "out there" for most manufacturers, or at least, their marketing types. your notice of "notice to coyright" (?) is apt, but are you not referring to hte 18-month "breathing space", before the formal patent?... Don Lancaster says, you should pay far more attention to the production *& marketting, than to getting a useless (if you're not prepared to use it) patent (of course, if you're Bucky, it's OK, of it you work for a university, they'll do it for you - if they/you haven't already gone totally commercial .-) thus quoth: 2) The same ad will most likely curtail any attempt by others to patent. But a filing to copyright (same office, less rigmarole) will achieve the same goal, namely- establish the idea(s) in the public domain. (which is all the USPTO needs to upset a patent filing.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:34:34 -0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "dalson@global.co.za" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE1C90.17C04EE0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1C90.17C04EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe -----Original Message----- From: dedalus [SMTP:dedalus@PRIMERAMA.ES] Sent: 24 November 1998 11:36 To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Unsubscribe ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1C90.17C04EE0 Content-Type: text/html; name="ATT00009.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1C90.17C04EE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:41:09 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: A Certain Quote.... Comments: To: chantry@cancom.net In-Reply-To: <365B30BB.7B6FE070@cancom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Luke, See the entries under "Humans/As/Unknowing Billionaires" in the Buckminster Fuller Master Index http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/MasterIndex/MasterIndex-Humans-Hz.htm Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Luke James [mailto:chantry@cancom.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:19 PM > To: rwgray@servtech.com > Subject: A Certain Quote.... > > Hi there! > I am emailing you to see if you can tell me which book of > Buckminster > Fuller's contains the quote(I'm paraphrasing)"If all the money in > the world > were divided equally among all, there would be ten million > dollars for every > man, woman and child." I can't seem to find it anywhere! Thanks > for your time. > > Luke James > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:46:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Octet structures Comments: To: Hop In-Reply-To: <3662E4D4.CEDCE14@tabletoptelephone.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Hop, To subscribe to the Geodesic electronic newsletter ("list") see: http://tile.net/listserv/geodesic.html Joe S Moore joemoore@cruzio.com Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Hop [mailto:hopspage@tabletoptelephone.com] > Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 10:33 AM > To: Joe S Moore > Subject: Re: Octet structures > > Joe, > > Thank you! > > Could I get a subscription to the Geodesic newsletter? > > Regards, > > Hop > > Joe S Moore wrote: > > > Dear Hop, > > > > Thanks for the feedback; I hope to fix all the bad URLs & add > new ones with > > my next update, but it's a big job as I have hundreds of links on my > > webpages. > > > > I took a look at your excellent site & on 10-3-98 I posted (with a cc to > > you) a notice to the Geodesic newsletter about your "Delta > Blocks". It was > > a very short email with the relevant URL, so you may have missed it. > > > > The Geodesic newsletter ("list") has between 100-200 > subscribers and is also > > gatewayed to the Geodesic newsgroup which has somewhere between > 5,000-10,000 > > readers. > > > > I usually reply through the Geodesic newsletter so that all may > benefit from > > the information exchange. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Joe S Moore > > joemoore@cruzio.com > > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Hop [mailto:hopspage@tabletoptelephone.com] > > > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 1998 2:22 PM > > > To: joemoore@cruzio.com > > > Subject: Octet structures > > > > > > > > > Two links on your Octet links page seem to be dead: Biosphere > and Moody > > > Gardens. > > > > > > I've compiled a page of octet structures (mostly from links > given by you > > > and Kirby Urner). There are some here that aren't included on > your page > > > though. > > > http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Octets.html > > > > > > A stellated octahedron can be made into a fractal in fashion > similar to > > > making a Koch snowflake from a Star of David. The outer surface goes > > > towards a cube. Under neath the surface of this "ice cube" bubbles are > > > trapped. The bubbles form Sierpinksi octahedra: > > > http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Kplrfrct.html > > > > > > And last, but not least, my octet toy idea: > > > http://www.tabletoptelephone.com/~hopspage/Index.html > > > > > > >From your page I believe we have a lot in common. You never > acknowledged > > > my October 3 letter though. If you don't answer this one, I'll assume > > > you don't want to be pestered and will try to remember not to > write any > > > more. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Hop > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >