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Date:         Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:00:05 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

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        This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list.  It has
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Pat
 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
                           -----------------------
                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:30:05 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      BUCKMINSTER FULLER INTERVIEWS
Comments: To: phil@christunity.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Mr Phillip Pierson, Senior Minister
Christ Unity Church
Sacramento, CA

Dear Sir,

Do you happen to have the exact dates and locations that you twice
interviewed R Buckminster Fuller in Feb, 1981?  Are copies of the 2 tapes
available for sale?

Ref: http://christunity.com/interviews.htm

Thank you,

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:45:34 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      SEARCHING
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My website is now SEARCHABLE courtesy of the FreeFind
(http://www.freefind.com/) people!
See the bottom of my home page (below).

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Jul 1999 17:37:36 +0430
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         aagdii@DDS.NL
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I dont know why anybody want to protect themselves, it is
just the same ego everyone have.

so in relation to BFI, i think that it is simple.
let them do what they want, they are already on the
internet. no one should attack the fuller family.
if that is clear then, there will be no problem.

i have not red the mail between Kirby and Michele_ by the
way i like your article about Fuller Scholar-, i have to
say that no one should carry too much crudges.
like a friend told me that the english keep crudges.

i have recieve a letter 3 or some years ago from
Alegra. i told her that i liked everything about Fuller.
she is a very kind person, i felt from her
letter that she was talking to me in equal terms.
and i felt that her letter had real prescence.
i dont  know how to decripe it.

it is litgitmate to be kind to the family.
let us get to business. if you feel that you are
egotis just acknoldge it and try to learn.
try not to have it all, be truthful of how much
you know.

best
tagdi
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:15:29 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         felix szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Do you have "instant messanger" for Chats
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:05:45 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bowling for Pi (was: The City Resolution on Accounting)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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35 million cubic miles at a volume of 3

Brian Hutchings wrote:

> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      27-JUN-1999 14:57
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  oops; that was 186000*PI*D SQUARE MILES
>  of surface-increment per second.  anyone can multiply
>  by the "unit trigonal" conversion-factor (or
>  divide that by 4, to get the area of the unit tetrahedron,
>  or some thing like that).
>
>  thus saith:
>       since in every second, the wave increases in areal magnitude
>    (not to say a thing about its "structure")
>    by 186000*PI*D, I think, how does the shape change,
>
>  --Candidate in Tow!
>  http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Jul 1999 00:50:14 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         felix szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      How does your Chat Room work?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_20aff336_66823de9$5ef0c165"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_20aff336_66823de9$5ef0c165
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_6bc877ba_66823de9$5ef0c165"

------=_NextPart_001_6bc877ba_66823de9$5ef0c165
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Dear Esteemed:

    Prologue: if the reason Writer is responding to Newsgroup for harvesting
and hijacking into other newsgroups; then the purpose of Chatting is
defeated. Anonymity can be done another way! Writer talks about strange
subjects; the subject areas require feedback.

    The responsibility of the answering parties may not be
disrespected...because the subject concern are "intinerant". Writer covered
so many agendas, already. As example:

    We could talk about the last anomalies on Planet Earth, just for
harvesting "answers" for culpability. The Planet, its innocence, the people
(consequently don't know it...) are too! But, as the job market proves.
There are more Hirees for Job Interviewers than ever. There are more
Jurisprudence Law Assitances being hired than ever. And...it's probably held
altogether by the almighty Computer Jobs...etc. These are your career
choices, not just sectionings, too.

    Enclosure--as a dream or parable illucidates: [I had this dream about a
geo-glyph in North America that looked-like a dot, with two-concentric
circles, and a air-flow pattern patterning as if a hilltop above it. The
other dream has a circle in Scotland, with a line that had been two miles
long. From the line length, like a "runway jutting" from it, there was an
oblique line extending outward three-forths along the route of itself, only
twice long as the runway's thickness. And another short-piece obliquing
opposite of the "runway" at the end, making it look just like a tree or
skeleton key, or with two-staggered branches-of-sorts.]

    The meaning of anomaly: we have are its premonitions. If we know how-to
read them. While un-knowing, these become extremely and deadly insights into
a our very complicated mind, from the vividness of premonition. It's
meanings...of course.

    (This took me a long time: and, the long mid-day break was spent running
for a book called: "Mysterys of the World" by Arthur C. Clarke. Reading all
the captions, titles, and staring at pictures...)Now, the key is
European...and Scotland...and the other key is theNew Plains of North
America. But, the geo-glyphs have contraryness. That meaning alluded in
universal of the Planet was the tie-in:

    It's the story of the passage to America...where "bring me your tired,
your hungry, and your weary" becomes advancement, but in the lingo of
Terrestrials of another Planet. (I.E., whereby, the two-rings-and-the-dot
with "streamers over top" mean: "We passed Solar Systems...with less than
three planets...or less; and we, the "E.T.s" will let them die"! "So...all
are very lucky that nine or ten planets allows your survival of
the-planet-of-the-earth...etc."! Because it allows Earth to see atoms of
survival elswhere in Planetoids and Asteroids, easily. While the Glyph in
Scotland contradicts--"You of the Planet Earth live in the yet undiscovered
Dimension of Helium Three...and Helium Four, (i.e., that's what the branches
express. So are...meaning atomic particles...in a keeping of the "skeleton
key fission-allusion")...technology before the American Technological Age,
so you are 'very'lucky to advance...henceforth. Be therefore, wise, in
abilities so "our communications" about what's out there.


Yours:
Flexsz@hotmail.com

Epilogue: NA

PS--The server wanted me to write this...about Internet Communication
Ediquette! Here's the copy...




_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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Content-type: text/html

<html><body bgcolor='#ffffff'>
<table border="0" cellspacing=0 width="100%" height="300" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<tr>
<td width="50" background="cid:part_00$66823de9$5ef0c165@hotmail.com" nowrap>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, sans serif" color="#000000"><div name='messagebody'>Dear Esteemed:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prologue: if the reason Writer is responding to Newsgroup for harvesting and hijacking into other newsgroups; then the purpose of Chatting is defeated. Anonymity can be done another way! Writer talks about strange subjects; the subject areas require feedback.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; The responsibility of the answering parties may not be disrespected...because the subject concern are &quot;intinerant&quot;. Writer covered so many agendas, already. As example:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; We could talk about the last anomalies on Planet Earth, just for harvesting &quot;answers&quot; for culpability. The Planet, its innocence, the people (consequently don't know it...) are too! But, as the job market proves. There are more Hirees for Job Interviewers than ever. There are more Jurisprudence Law Assitances being hired than ever. And...it's probably held altogether by the almighty Computer Jobs...etc. These are your career choices, not just sectionings, too.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Enclosure--as a dream or parable illucidates: [I had this dream about a geo-glyph in North America that looked-like a dot, with two-concentric circles, and a air-flow pattern patterning as if a hilltop above it. The other dream has a circle in Scotland, with a line that had been two miles long. From the line length, like a &quot;runway jutting&quot; from it, there was an oblique line extending outward three-forths along the route of itself, only twice long as the runway's thickness. And another short-piece obliquing opposite of the &quot;runway&quot; at the end, making it look just like a tree or skeleton key, or with two-staggered branches-of-sorts.]
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; The meaning of anomaly: we have are its premonitions. If we know how-to read them. While un-knowing, these become extremely and deadly insights into a our very complicated mind, from the vividness of premonition. It's meanings...of course.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; (This took me a long time: and, the long mid-day break was spent running for a book called: &quot;Mysterys of the World&quot; by Arthur C. Clarke. Reading all the captions, titles, and staring at pictures...)Now, the key is European...and Scotland...and the other key is theNew Plains of North America. But, the geo-glyphs have contraryness. That meaning alluded in universal of the Planet was the tie-in:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; It's the story of the passage to America...where &quot;bring me your tired, your hungry, and your weary&quot; becomes advancement, but in the lingo of Terrestrials of another Planet. (I.E., whereby, the two-rings-and-the-dot with &quot;streamers over top&quot; mean: &quot;We passed Solar Systems...with less than three planets...or less; and we, the &quot;E.T.s&quot; will let them die&quot;! &quot;So...all are very lucky that nine or ten planets allows your survival of the-planet-of-the-earth...etc.&quot;! Because it allows Earth to see atoms of survival elswhere in Planetoids and Asteroids, easily. While the Glyph in Scotland contradicts--&quot;You of the Planet Earth live in the yet undiscovered Dimension of Helium Three...and Helium Four, (i.e., that's what the branches express. So are...meaning atomic particles...in a keeping of the &quot;skeleton key fission-allusion&quot;)...technology before the American Technological Age, so you are 'very'lucky to advance...henceforth. Be therefore, wise, in abilities so &quot;our communications&quot; about what's out there.
<br>
<br>
<br>Yours:
<br>Flexsz@hotmail.com
<br>
<br>Epilogue: NA
<br>
<br>PS--The server wanted me to write this...about Internet Communication Ediquette! Here's the copy...
<br>
<br>
<br></div></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><hr>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href=http://www.msn.com>www.msn.com</a><br></body></html>

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Date:         Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:01:06 GMT
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         felix szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      How does your Chat Room work? (Revised like JOE MOORE would want
              it!)
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Dear Esteemed:

    Prologue: if the reason Writer is responding to Newsgroup for harvesting
and hijacking into other newsgroups; then the purpose of Chatting is
defeated. Anonymity can be done another way, as such! Writer talks about
strange subjects in science; the subject areas require feedback.

    The responsibility of the answering parties may not be disrespected of
course...because the subject concern are "intinerant". Writer covered so
many agendas, already. As this example:

    We could talk about the last anomalies on Planet Earth, just for
harvesting "answers" for culpability. The Planet, its innocence, the people
(consequently don't know it...) are too! But, as the career market proves.
Two of the hottest jobs are...thus. That there are more Hirees for Job
Interviewers than ever; there are more Jurisprudence Law Assistances being
hired than ever. And...it's probably held altogether by the almighty
Computer Careers...etc. These are your job choices, not just sectionings of
activities, too.

    Enclosure--as the dream or parable of mine elucidates: [I had this dream
about a geo-glyph in North America that looked-like a dot, with
two-concentric circles, and a air-flow-pattern going over itself as if a
hilltop above it. The other dream has a circle in Scotland, with a line
protrusion that had been two miles long. From the line length like a "runway
jutting" from it, there was an oblique-line extending outward three-fourths
along the route of itself; only, it's twice long as the runway's thickness.
And another short-piece oblique-ing opposite of the "runway" at the tip-end,
making it look just like a tree or skeleton key, or with two-staggered
branches-of-sorts.]

    Hence, what's the meaning of these anomalies: we have, are its
premonitions? If we know how-to read them, then, too? While un-knowing,
these become extremely and deadly insights into a our very complicated
minds, from the vividness of these premonitions. In it's meanings...of
course.

    (These took me a long time...but; whereas, the long mid-day break was
spent running for a book called: "Mysteries of the World" by Arthur C.
Clarke. Reading all the captions, titles, and staring at
pictures...)Now...let's see, the key is it's European...and Scotland...and
the other key is the New Plains of North America. But, the geo-glyphs have
contrary-ness. That meaning alluded in universals of the Planet was the
tie-in...so. It wasn't in the book...so, it had been a dream, and what might
the symbolism allude-to:

    ...it's the story of the passage to America...one concluded...where
"bring me your tired, your hungry, and your weary" becomes advancement, but
in the lingo of Terrestrials of Another Planet!

     Whereby, the two-rings-and-the-dot with "streamers over top" mean: "We
passed Solar Systems...with less than three planets...or less; and we, the
"E.T.s" will let them die"! "So...[all] are very lucky that you'se
nine-or-ten planet-ones! They allow you'll survival of
the-planet-of-the-earth...etc."! Nine Planets allows Earth to see atoms of
life elsewhere in it's Planetoids and Asteroids, easily, as in the first
Glyph. While the Glyph in Scotland explains further the contradictions--"You
of the Planet Earth live in the yet undiscovered Dimension of Helium
Three...and Helium Four, i.e., that's what the branches on the "key"
express. So are...the meaning of the picture of atomic particles facsimile
of Accelerators, like the Feynman Schematics...in a keeping of the "skeleton
key fission-allusion". That's...technology before the American Technological
Age--so, "you are 'very'lucky to advance...henceforth...".

    Be therefore, wise, in abilities so "our communications" about what's
really...really out there.


Yours:
Flexsz@hotmail.com

Epilogue: NA

PS--The server wanted me to write this...about Internet Communication
Etiquette! (They said write this...or else.)
PPS--Writer of Long Prose, during Lunch-breaks...



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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<html><body bgcolor='#ffffff'>
<table border="0" width="100%" height="300" bgcolor="#ffffff" background="cid:part_00$667743d1$3e91bad2@hotmail.com">
<tr>
<td valign="top" align="left"><font face="Verdana, Arial" color="#000000"><div name='messagebody'>Dear Esteemed:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prologue: if the reason Writer is responding to Newsgroup for harvesting and hijacking into other newsgroups; then the purpose of Chatting is defeated. Anonymity can be done another way, as such! Writer talks about strange subjects in science; the subject areas require feedback.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; The responsibility of the answering parties may not be disrespected of course...because the subject concern are &quot;intinerant&quot;. Writer covered so many agendas, already. As this example:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; We could talk about the last anomalies on Planet Earth, just for harvesting &quot;answers&quot; for culpability. The Planet, its innocence, the people (consequently don't know it...) are too! But, as the career market proves. Two of the hottest jobs are...thus. That there are more Hirees for Job Interviewers than ever; there are more Jurisprudence Law Assistances being hired than ever. And...it's probably held altogether by the almighty Computer Careers...etc. These are your job choices, not just sectionings of activities, too.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Enclosure--as the dream or parable of mine elucidates: [I had this dream about a geo-glyph in North America that looked-like a dot, with two-concentric circles, and a air-flow-pattern going over itself as if a hilltop above it. The other dream has a circle in Scotland, with a line protrusion that had been two miles long. From the line length like a &quot;runway jutting&quot; from it, there was an oblique-line extending outward three-fourths along the route of itself; only, it's twice long as the runway's thickness. And another short-piece oblique-ing opposite of the &quot;runway&quot; at the tip-end, making it look just like a tree or skeleton key, or with two-staggered branches-of-sorts.]
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Hence, what's the meaning of these anomalies: we have, are its premonitions? If we know how-to read them, then, too? While un-knowing, these become extremely and deadly insights into a our very complicated minds, from the vividness of these premonitions. In it's meanings...of course.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; (These took me a long time...but; whereas, the long mid-day break was spent running for a book called: &quot;Mysteries of the World&quot; by Arthur C. Clarke. Reading all the captions, titles, and staring at pictures...)Now...let's see, the key is it's European...and Scotland...and the other key is the New Plains of North America. But, the geo-glyphs have contrary-ness. That meaning alluded in universals of the Planet was the tie-in...so. It wasn't in the book...so, it had been a dream, and what might the symbolism allude-to:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; ...it's the story of the passage to America...one concluded...where &quot;bring me your tired, your hungry, and your weary&quot; becomes advancement, but in the lingo of Terrestrials of Another Planet!
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Whereby, the two-rings-and-the-dot with &quot;streamers over top&quot; mean: &quot;We passed Solar Systems...with less than three planets...or less; and we, the &quot;E.T.s&quot; will let them die&quot;! &quot;So...[all] are very lucky that you'se nine-or-ten planet-ones! They allow you'll survival of the-planet-of-the-earth...etc.&quot;! Nine Planets allows Earth to see atoms of life elsewhere in it's Planetoids and Asteroids, easily, as in the first Glyph. While the Glyph in Scotland explains further the contradictions--&quot;You of the Planet Earth live in the yet undiscovered Dimension of Helium Three...and Helium Four, i.e., that's what the branches on the &quot;key&quot; express. So are...the meaning of the picture of atomic particles facsimile of Accelerators, like the Feynman Schematics...in a keeping of the &quot;skeleton key fission-allusion&quot;. That's...technology before the American Technological Age--so, &quot;you are 'very'lucky to advance...henceforth...&quot;.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Be therefore, wise, in abilities so &quot;our communications&quot; about what's really...really out there.
<br>
<br>
<br>Yours:
<br>Flexsz@hotmail.com
<br>
<br>Epilogue: NA
<br>
<br>PS--The server wanted me to write this...about Internet Communication Etiquette! (They said write this...or else.)
<br>PPS--Writer of Long Prose, during Lunch-breaks...
<br>
<br></div></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><hr>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href=http://www.msn.com>www.msn.com</a><br></body></html>

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Date:         Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:46:42 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: dome roofing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Michael S. Mitchell wrote:

> JPRTIST wrote:
>
> > "Michael S. Mitchell" wrote:
> > >
> > > I have mentioned this before to use West Systems and acetone on the
> > > whole roof and it will never rot if it does leak. Then use silver tar for
> > > the roofing
> > > not black for it cracks in the sun in one month.  The silver will crack as
> > > well
> > > but it last 4 months if exposed to the sun point blank.  I would look into
> > > the
> > > book that is sold by West Marine on West System epoxy boat fixing and
> > > it will show you how to fill for cuts in the ceilings for sky lights etc.
> > > The epoxy will also fix already bad wood as well as protect new wood.
> > > It is the most interesting tool for wood domes ever.
> > > Wood domes are best because you can grow them as trees and the
> > > are solar energy renewable structures.  Jay Baldwin and many others
> > > think they are bad, but they sell a different type dome to the public
> > > mainly the ones they invented.  Bucky invented the wood dome and
> > > I just sold his to become a park in his memory.  With Epoxy when needed
> > > the wood dome can last for ever.
> > > Michael S. Mitchell
> >
> > Thanks for the response Michael. Your words were very encouraging. I
> > haven't yet decided on how my dome will finally be constructed. I'm
> > leaning toward a sort of hybrid, the panel type.
> >
> > I would assemble corrugated plastic, or boatboard, into the basic shape,
> > and cover with epoxy/fiberglass at the seams. I would probably use use
> > in certain areas. I would then like to spray with foam insulation, and
> > possibly even shot crete for thermal mass.
> >
> > If I were to make a an all wood dome, I would have a hard time
> > justifying the thermal mass and foam.
> >
> > I'm pretty impressed by you did you really own one of Bucky's domes,
> > what a treasure.
> >
> > I wish this list were a little busier. It is very interesting when
> > people post.
> >
> > -Becarful sparying foam it can poison you very badly,.
>
> You can put a triangle of a 4/8 plywood by cutting it diagonaland make a smaller
> triangle in it for support of the face
> and struts for the seems of the hypotenuse of the 4x8 that
> make a 40 footer like bucky's that i own right now am in
> escrow with at this moment.  You can glue hard foam in it and face it
> inside with 4 inches of foam a lot easier than spraying it.
> Cheaper and not as messy.  make the struts with 2x4s and the face
> with 3/4 inch ply with hard foam epoxyed inside and the whole
> dome epoxyed outside with fiber glass mat over the whole dome
> like a surf board and it would look like a round surf board and
> you could hang ten off the roof when the atomic bomb hits.
> Just kidding. Bucky's dome has the best floor plan i have every seen.
> He put a fountain in his back yard.
> I worked with bucky for 16 years on and off,  not like
> Jay baldwin that must have worked with him in world war
> one the way he t alks. I think he sees working with him as
> when you read his name. Anyway I spent a lot of time with this
> man and his spirit is not known to many, only his family and
> Medard and Toni Huston and SOnny and Moore and Perk
> not many know him for the force of truth he cousins, not many
> bill lear knew who he was and WErner Von Braun knew him
> for what Weisner, VAN alLEN, Not many people knew bucky
> Anne Fuller saw him for what and made him what he was allowed
> to be, with her love and this is there wedding anniversary this week
> so god bless them in our minds that they may be seen for the spirit
> that they make for us all to share that we all belong on a little
> space ship together with love for each other for ever.
> His spirit is not seen very much by many but if you work at it and read
> his books you can see that it was not his, it is yours and al of a sudden
> you have it and you can say to others you can get it the love for all humans
> and how to make heaven here on earth. Look deeper into bucky and you
> will find yourself to be so great that you have never dreamed that you could
> find a truth for all of us to share equal, that all of us are tight in our own
> way.
> That all of us can really make the truth include us all to be happy if we try to
>
> do world game like bucky invented.  He started the word ecology, and
> he started the world being round as one big town, he started this attitude
> that war was obsolete, that design with more with less can let us rest.
> He started the work synergy from gestalt psych. and he started the
> new geometry of how to see the world and he made a world map that
> is not used in the schools today that is better than any other you can
> get it for your children from the BFI. You can start making the world work
> by thinking about the rest of his ideas. To make them your ideas to grow for the
>
> children to come to earth some day and say those people around the domes
> made the world good for me. This is bucky's birthday on July 12,.and the
> anniversary for anne and bucky in love.  He was born 1895.
> In 1983 he died and it was on his birthday and so did she, on their
> 66 wedding anniversary. They were both 87 and she died in a comma 38 hours
> after he died holding her hand in the hospital, neither one of them knew the
> other
> died when they died. She never came out of the comma and he had a heart attack
> at her side with out her knowing it. She died of an operation that she did not
> recover.
> Here in LA. This is an anniversary of their wedding, his birthday and both their
> deaths.
> I am selling  their dome home on these days as well to Mr. Perk who is going to
> make a park out of the dome in Carbondale and the dome is a model of a c60
> carbon structure in a town named after Carbon, and they named the c60 carbon
> structure the Buckminster Fullerene. I grew up there in a town near by that had
> the
> largest mine of carbon in the world once.  West Frankfort iLLinois. Named after
> a man named Frank that built a fort on a hill there in the early days. When the
> rail road was built there and they did not want to build it up the hill, they
> built
> the rail road west of the fort that frank built on the hill, hence West
> Frankfort.
> That is the way history is always made in little steps in time.  I hope that
> in time bucky's little steps from the dome to his state of mind can make the
> world work with your help who every you all are.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:48:37 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: DOMICILE FOR HUMANITY
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Michael S. Mitchell wrote:

> I know people that have built their own boat in a field and have sailed
> around the world 2 or now 3 times with no mortgage. There is no reason
> to have one if you grow your own trees, and who really wants to live
> with a mortgage anyway. It is a brain washing that all must have one
> that makes it so strange that everyone must have one or they feel
> left out.  Bucky invented the dome to get away from it.
> I am saying that the sea is the way or wave of the future for the
> children to get away from these idiots that have no idea what love
> for humanity or let us say chapter 11 of the Book Earth, Inc. states
> that the Leonardo types (that is me)  economic-patronage mandate
> will be that of the newborn children of all humanity everywhere.
> This is where we are today in Period 11, on the way to 12, in his
> book Earth Inc.  Now I think that people are going to get so mad
> that you will not be able to live on the land as 5 percent of the world
> mainly known as the USA will force others who have large population
> killing machines sold to them by the USA will say we don't want these
> guys telling us to die anymore, and so lets try out those killing things
> they
> sold us so they could sell better ones to the USA the next year after
> that sale to save us from the last sale.  The only way one family can get
> out
> of this trap is to sail off from the sales pitch places.  After while they
> will be
> the only population that is not killed off by terrorists or just plain
> frustration from over specialization of the educational system and
> they will rule the world from the sea.  We all came from the sea that way
> anyway.
> As we find more land that has not been corrupted now it is all gone the only
>
> place to go is back to the sea. Now we have the tools to stay there with
> battery powered water makers, and wind mills with phones and computer
> nomad tech islands that need only the sun.  This is the way to survive now
> in bucky;s time it was the dome, for we did not have the mind set that we
> have
> now, that life is falling to a more or less degree to the wind of killingry
> tech
> fall out from to much of it available to the have not's that is just ready
> to
> kill them self anyway because nothing makes sense with all the power
> corrupted politics and development of nature mindless destruction of the
> ecology.  This has to be attacked by someone or they must go to sea.
> I think they will all go to sea.  IN the next 20 years everyone is going to
> go
> to sea. You will see. You mite even go to sea and see, he heee he.
> Any way get a mortgage and get fired with down sizing and let the banks
> have the power peoples house back to sell for more money to someone
> to do the same as all of us pay taxes to make more bombs and watch the
> next development kill off all the nature we can see, by giving money under
> the table to anyone that will allow everyone to be taken advantage of for
> profit. Mean while all the new babies have more hell to put out with when
> they get bigger and are told to get a mortgagee and get in line to die with
> the rest.  Where is the fun in this design.  The truth is no one is on top
> of the management structure that is going to help humanity for real.
> They are sold and bought like furs on trading blocks for self interest
> and selfish mindless shitusky.
> I am not bitter because I live on a boat and I can just go out to the
> islands
> and watch tv and say wow what a mess, maybe the computer will help this
> some how when some one like me states the truth on it and others get the
> same Jedi knight attitude to vote to allow real votes to vote for real ideas
>
> and people that will do something about this.  There is no Fuller political
> platform in the world.  I will run for president on the Fuller ticket if
> anyone
> wants me\. Fuller was not political, but if we do not make his ideas so
> we will all be at sea next year after the crash and there is no gas and
> electricity
> like in New York last week but for months, like kosovo here, like pearl
> harbor
> was here but the model for 2000 where everyone gets killed in  a whole
> 1000 mile radius, if we do not love each other on the period 11 in the book
> Earth inc, soon we will be in world war terrorists hands that will kill most
> the world off
> just for the hell of it not being worth living here, for it is all so
> untruthful that it should
> die. off.  I am for the good side of this story, that is the Fuller side.
> I do not see anyone else on that side except world game, and the BFI.
> You even see the fighting in these computer lists pockets going against
> bucky's own family for their self interest like Kirby Urner on the syn list.
>
> Most people just think bucky made the dome and that is it.  The dome is an
> artifact of livingry that shows how to do more with less to house all humans
>
> with resources that are not made for war but could be.  This is one example
> how to save
> all humanity through design.  So is his car, his bath room, but most people
> just write in here to talk domes because it makes them seem more smart
> to be on the edge of art, this is much deeper than that and now that you are
> here
> you must face the fact that the world to be here in the future or not,
> depends
> on you going farther than just the dome, to the heart of the dome idea
> to the love of all humanity and the children to come. To look deep into
> RBF's ideas not as an ego maniac that had a round house but as the real
> father of world ecology and the idea HOW to do away with war, and to allow
> heaven on earth. He was the first person to do this.
> This is the direction we are going to roof a dome.
> To roof the world with love that is like the sky.
> The real dome Van Allen belt of love. Bucky was a friend of Van ALLen
> The funny thing is we all die anyway, why not for the Fuller cause
> this way we die for the greatest one on earth, earth itself, and all
> the children to come to it in the future. Get it! I love domes it shows
> that you love people if you have one.  A dome boat is a good idea to me.
> A submarine dome boat, so you can go under storms when they come
> and just listen to them go by, BYE or see ya!
> MSM
>
> jmr wrote:
>
> > ----------
> > From: Cat <cathrynm@whale-mail.com>
> > Date: Wed, Jul 7, 1999, 4:56 PM
> >
> > Michael:
> >
> > The ideal you describe might work in near-perfect
> > conditions, but the point I was trying to make about land
> > and building homes with Habitat is that they are nonprofit,
> > yet they DON'T GIVE AWAY the homes.  You must work 400 (or
> > so) hours on other's Habitat homes before you qualify to
> > begin building your own.  As a Habitat home-owner, you will
> > have a MORTGAGE which means you must have some means to
> > repay the loan...therefore, sailing away on a Habitat boat
> > doesn't quite fit in with the scheme of things...besides, as
> > a nation, the U.S. has become WAY too nomadic - breaking the
> > family ties, moving every 3-4 years.  Putting down roots
> > requires land...
> >
> > Cat
> >
> >  > >From: "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@earthlink.net>
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > I do not see why people always think of building on land
> >  > as a must for a dome or anything.
> >  > Water is free and 3/4 of the earth to anchor in and
> >  > Habitat or domicile for humanity should focus on making
> >  > boats for the homeless not homes for the homeless.
> >  > Boats need way less to aquire in money and they last
> >  > for ever. They can be sailed any where and are very cheap.
> >  > A good 30 foot wood boat if mass produced would cost
> >  > very little if designed and made available to house
> >  > all the worlds needy people.
> >  > Wood grows back and is basically solar energy produced.
> >  > We are killing the earth for greed and we will have to go
> >  > to this boat design just to get away from the insane
> >  > management of the earth based economy money bees that
> >  > fine you for living after they have ripped you off and
> >  > destroyed the nature of life.
> >  > They would put a meter on the sun if they could and
> >  > charge you for daylight.
> >  >
> >
> >                  The DomeHome Email List
> >            ===== To unsubscribe write: requests@h19.hoflin.com
> >       ========== with this message:  unsubscribe DomeHome-H
> >    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
> >  =============== Web Companion: http://domegroup.org
> > ================ Moderator: jmr rowley@quepaso.net
> >
> > ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> > DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:45:29 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      ELECTRON MODELS
Comments: To: DBergman@CompuServe.com
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Mr David L. Bergman
Common Sense Science
P. O. Box 1013
Kennesaw, GA 30144-8013

Dear Sir,

I think you may be interested in the work of Kenneth Snelson:
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/snelson/Portrait.html

(Ref http://www.cormedia.com/css/ )

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:11:48 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      SUGGESTED LINK
Comments: To: websites@planetworkers.com
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PlanetWork conference, May 12-14, 2000; SF, CA

Gentlemen,

You may want to add my website to your list of links.

(Ref http://www.planetworkers.com/ )

Thank you,

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:52:15 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: DOMICILE FOR HUMANITY

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      09-JUL-1999 15:52
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 if you weren't such an inchoate & zealous mindhumper,
 I might give you the time of day (supposedly,
 you are able to determine longitude, though, once this is known .-)
    the serendipitous importance the number 11, is that
 it has to do with US Bankruptcy law of the voluntary sort.  as to
 your sole contribution to this list, counting Analtivity
 as a possibly-more-than-totally-negating dmerit,
 your relaunching of Bucky's (Lyn's?) Maritime Civ.,
 as either a cohering glue for the nations, or
 as some sort of survivalist Mutual Aid Society for pirates --
 go to Hell, yourself!
    I mean, it's spme thing to think about, but
 all of these maritime entities/empires were dependent
 upon equally far-flunk "riparian" culture,
 either as parasitic, bestial things lile the Brutish Umpire,
 or the Phoenecians, or as republican capabilities.

 Yahoo!s who believe in using nothing but solar power,
 are destined to diminishing returns of mushrooms,
 tending palely beneath their collectors!

 thus quoth:
  > for humanity or let us say chapter 11 of the Book Earth, Inc. states
  > that the Leonardo types (that is me)  economic-patronage mandate
  > will be that of the newborn children of all humanity everywhere.
  > This is where we are today in Period 11, on the way to 12, in his
  > book Earth Inc.  Now I think that people are going to get so mad
  > that you will not be able to live on the land as 5 percent of the world
  > mainly known as the USA will force others who have large population
  > they                             the USA will say
  > sold us so they could sell better ones to the USA the next year after
  > that sale to save us from the last sale.  The only way one family can get
  > out
  > of this trap is to sail off from the sales pitch places.  After while they
  > will be
  > the only population that is not killed off by terrorists or just plain

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:04:32 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Marina Jihad HQ (was: Domestic Floaters)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      09-JUL-1999 16:04
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 let he who is without Syn not cast the first dome (boat .-)

 thus quoth:
  > and selfish mindless shitusky.
  > I am not bitter because I live on a boat and I can just go out to the
  > islands
  > and watch tv and say wow what a mess, maybe the computer will help this
  > some how when some one like me states the truth on it and others get
 the
  > same Jedi knight attitude to vote to allow real votes to vote for real
 ideas
  >
  > and people that will do something about this.  There is no Fuller
 political
  > platform in the world.  I will run for president on the Fuller ticket
 if

 --The End Was Nigh!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:24:03 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Domestic Violins (was: dome roofing)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      09-JUL-1999 16:24
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 this fixation upon the Dymaxion (tm) Map is pathetic;
 it is only important as an exemplar of qua-eaual-area from,
 amongst the other maps that are useful for navigiation (e.g.).
    it is just as foolish to love the Wooden Domicile,
 over Bucky's stated preference for machine-tooled metal fabrication,
 not that it is *verboten* if it is not a kinky fetish.  after all,
 the tensile property of wood is unparalleled (Ithink .-)

 thus quoth:
  > do world game like bucky invented.  He started the word ecology, and
  > he started the world being round as one big town, he started this
 attitude
  > that war was obsolete, that design with more with less can let us rest.
  > He started the work synergy from gestalt psych. and he started the
  > new geometry of how to see the world and he made a world map that
  > is not used in the schools today that is better than any other you can
  > get it for your children from the BFI. You can start making the world
 work
  > by thinking about the rest of his ideas. To make them your ideas

 --Bow Down to the Republican Dynasty!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:18:53 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: DOMICILE FOR HUMANITY
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The children are on there on in this world today.
This is not chapter 11 of Earth, inc with a frown on bucky's face
because no one cares on the front cover but him.
There is no reason that you may not have and communicate just as
much from the sea, even more than on land and do as much.
I know many that do a lot for humanity from the sea.
Anyway your idea is analtivity and you are no mr. Hucthings
John tivity. You mite be John Huston's son in drag on the net
from Santa Monica, but who cares who you are.  You are
a great analtivitist and I respect you light years past urnaltivity.
You at least spew it and he catches it and eats it.
I have a lot of respect for your ability to think who ever you are
just because most on this net can not comprehend your width and
breath of fresh air to life, I do, and i get a lot of Norman Cousin laughter
from your mind sets.  In short I love your ideas Hutch keep it out.
But lay off the dope please it does a body no good.  I should know
I made a lot of mistakes and as bucky would say they are the only
way to learn. Do not do them twice is the law.
I am not interested in survivalist on boats, I love being in nature and
when people out here in LA get rich they get a boat to show they have
fun and live life in nature, I do it and live here on my boat and I love it
not for survivalist, because it is so much safer than on the land.  The
power went off for 3 hours again today in all Marina Del Rey and I put
on my generator and the freezer worked on, we have had a few earth
tremors and I sleep right on through them for they are a little wiggle
in the water like the police patrolling by every 3 hours here by boat.
I feel safer.  I am going out to catalina island this week end and
wow what a place, move your home to catalina for a few days.
wowo what a trip, to see the dolphins from your home as you go
flying in the air and the whales go by and spout at your unitivity
mind set as they go by which is syntrivity for you are one with them
making 3, and you and the universe is relativity, and infinity is all around
you within the one volume that synergetic geometry is within, inwhich
kirby has no idea about how to start to teach, and is asking me last
month and kicks me off his list for being honest.  what a coward he is.
Spoiled rotten glory hog of fuller force.  Do not forget he is working
night and day to be better than fuller's family now as they are on
bear island having fun, kirby is on bucky's birthday trying to get everyone
who comes to find our about fuller to the net, kirby tries to tell them
the fuller's family is no good and the bfi is no good, and he is the god of
fuller and his geometry synergetics, because he got a computer first
and can con everyone into thinking he knows what synergetics is all about.
What a joke he is, dear hutch, please tell him to say he is sorry to the family
so he can save his soul and not keep up the rough guy attitude that makes
him the darth vader of the fuller force. What is more important than to point
out when a boat is going to hit the rocks.  If you use Kirby Urner for navigation
Fuller fans will hit the rocks. anyway I am saying this on bucky and anne's
anniversary to save their family the trouble of having to think no one will fight
for them when some one as stupid as kirby urner comes on the horizon for
a few years. I have seen many come along and fight fuller's designs they
always get it in the end, disrespect for their short sighted selfishness.
You hutch are a self contained independent comprehensivists. Congratulations
on Fuller birthday for that. ANd anne's anniversary.  Fuller born 1895.
married 66 years in 1983 when they both died july 3 & 5,  16 years ago.
Bucky's birthday is on the 12th Saturday, about the time you will read this.
God bless them both and thank god they were here on earth they have
done more for humanity than anyone I have ever met and more.
Please say a dream for them for the world.

Brian Hutchings wrote:

> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      09-JUL-1999 15:52
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  if you weren't such an inchoate & zealous mindhumper,
>  I might give you the time of day (supposedly,
>  you are able to determine longitude, though, once this is known .-)
>     the serendipitous importance the number 11, is that
>  it has to do with US Bankruptcy law of the voluntary sort.  as to
>  your sole contribution to this list, counting Analtivity
>  as a possibly-more-than-totally-negating dmerit,
>  your relaunching of Bucky's (Lyn's?) Maritime Civ.,
>  as either a cohering glue for the nations, or
>  as some sort of survivalist Mutual Aid Society for pirates --
>  go to Hell, yourself!
>     I mean, it's spme thing to think about, but
>  all of these maritime entities/empires were dependent
>  upon equally far-flunk "riparian" culture,
>  either as parasitic, bestial things lile the Brutish Umpire,
>  or the Phoenecians, or as republican capabilities.
>
>  Yahoo!s who believe in using nothing but solar power,
>  are destined to diminishing returns of mushrooms,
>  tending palely beneath their collectors!
>
>  thus quoth:
>   > for humanity or let us say chapter 11 of the Book Earth, Inc. states
>   > that the Leonardo types (that is me)  economic-patronage mandate
>   > will be that of the newborn children of all humanity everywhere.
>   > This is where we are today in Period 11, on the way to 12, in his
>   > book Earth Inc.  Now I think that people are going to get so mad
>   > that you will not be able to live on the land as 5 percent of the world
>   > mainly known as the USA will force others who have large population
>   > they                             the USA will say
>   > sold us so they could sell better ones to the USA the next year after
>   > that sale to save us from the last sale.  The only way one family can get
>   > out
>   > of this trap is to sail off from the sales pitch places.  After while they
>   > will be
>   > the only population that is not killed off by terrorists or just plain
>
>  --The Duke of Oil!
>  http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:39:35 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bowling for Pi (was: The City Resolution on Accounting)
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Pi is isotropic area sweep in the universe.
the mean sweep is the speed of light.
would you guys set the pins please after this strike.
a poem on bucky's birthday to you.
love mickey

I am in the process of making another syn list and guess what
kirby I have a big filter for you for bucky and anne's anniversary and
bucky's birthday. It will take a while but it is in the process.



Kirby Urner wrote:

> > (as an angular or curvilinear measurement).  it is certainly OK
> > to have an algorith to "paint" your screen, and
> > it will likely be done only so-many times, til it fits the monitor, but
> > this is not quite the same as measuring some spheric-al object
> > "down" to the error of your theodolyte.
>
> These irrationals never came out of physical measurement or
> instrumentation.  They come from the algorithms used to treat
> these situations algebraically.  The picture just sits there,
> giving you something to visualize while you crank out the
> digits.
>
> Given discrete atomics, it's not good science to suppose PI
> is discoverable in nature.  We don't have any physical theories
> which go beyond much more than 10 digits of physical significance.
> PI, as an algorithmic, is the creature of symbolic processes,
> not physical measurement per se.
>
> I agree that incommensurability is part of nature.  The result
> is dynamic -- "eternal disquietude" in Bucky.  The Heraclitian
> view is not just that you never step in the same river twice,
> but that "river" never means exactly the same thing, from one
> moment to the next.  There's no fixity in language, just a
> dynamic balancing act, around no-stopping-point equilibrium
> (not our fate as mortals to rest in that novent).
>
> > the problem of the ratio gets rusty,
> > if you take your "unit" as the circumference;
> > where do you chop the endless zeroes?
>
> Smash a window.  Nature is not in doubt about where to "chop"
> -- it all happens in an instant, just like bubbles forming.
>
> Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:39:42 -0400
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      When  tensegrities sag
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I built a 12 strut tensegrity using small tree trunks (13 feet long,
about 2.5" diameter.) It sags too much, and I'd like practical and
theoretical advice.

This is the cuboctahedron described on page 21 of Kenner's "Geodesic
Math". The 48 tendons make 8 triangles (short tendon / strut length
=.5168) and 6 squares (long tendon / strut length = .5983) I want it
to stand on one of its 8 triangles so one end of 3 struts is on the
ground and the other 21 ends are suspended.

The problem is that 3 other strut ends are also touching the ground,
and they should be about a foot above ground. They would be if the
whole thing weren't supporting its 250+ pound weight. Structurally I
think it's like an underinflated basketball, with a flat spot on the
bottom big enough to enclose the 6 strut ends hitting the ground. If
it were "inflated" to a higher pressure the flat spot would get
smaller, and the 3 outer "problem" struts would lift off, leaving the
tensegrity supported on only the 3 inner "base" struts.

Is this possible, given the stiffness and weight of the struts? They
weigh about 20 pounds each, and originally stood vertically in a thick
tulip poplar grove, each one holding up the crown of a 40' 15 year old
tree. If I put too much tension in the tendons, the struts bend. I
think I do NOT have a problem with the tendons stretching, since I
used 14 gauge (.064" dia.) steel electric fence wire. But
"underinflation" can obviously result from too much length (too little
tension) in tendons or too little length (too much bowing) in struts.

The previous models I've made all had much lighter struts and did not
have this problem, they could easily be "inflated" to 3 point contact.
I never had to figure out the relation between tendon tension and
strut weight. I know that tight tendons make a hard basketball, if
struts stay straight; a tight tensegrity will not jiggle much. I want this
one to jiggle, so I want the tendons to have minimum tension; but they
have to be tight enough to elevate the 3 problem struts.

Is there a rule, like "a strut is stiff enough if while standing
vertically it can support 3 times its weight without shortening by
more than 1%"? Or a relation between strut strength and useable tendon
strength? Would it be useful to use asymmetrical tendon lengths to
compensate for the irregularities of strut weights? (After all every
trunk is thicker at one end than the other, and some are stronger than
others.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:01:05 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      FREE BROCHURE
Comments: To: wgd@gtwn.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ernie,

Please send your free brochure to
Joe S Moore
PO Box 2737
Aptos, CA 95001-2737

I think you are doing a great job developing Tetra & Octa Geodesics in
addition to Icosa, and using metal & plastic in addition to wood. Keep up
the good work.

(Ref http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/WGD1.htm )

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:26:40 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      NEW DOME MANUF
MIME-Version: 1.0
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New England Tank Systems, Inc
Route 343 & Randall Road
PO Box 284
Amenia, NY 12501

http://www.newenglandtank.com/geodesic.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:41:02 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: When  tensegrities sag

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      09-JUL-1999 22:41
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
 wow, it sounds insurmountable to me, if there was bowing
 under tensions that you tried.  but
 asymmetrical tendons might do it, I suppose; if so,
 you should be able to make it look just, so.
    the only other thing, I can think of, is
 to taper the ends to make long "cigars".
    I'm not sure whether it was from Pugh's or Kenner's book, but
 I made the one that is a cuboctahedron,
 whose struts are joined to make 4 interpenetrating trigona
 [triangles], using just ordinary 2' dowels, and
 some stainless steel safety-wire, that I got
 from a local A&P shop at the airport.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:58:48 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Marina Jihad HQ Fatwa (was: Domestic Violins)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      09-JUL-1999 22:58
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   ironically, in your siding with the putatively terrorist pirates,
   you miss the boat (just as you'll wander into Scylla and
   Charyibdis with your Dymaxion (tm) Map -- unless
   you can devise a polygonal compasses, perhaps !-)
      in spite of Bucky's apparent gullability for Transendentalism
   --a horrid bunch o'Tories, in reality, like Emerson and Thorough--
   --"Oh, the scrilege!"--
   his real strength was in bucking the family tradition
   of their horribly corrupt local outpost of Cambridge's Ivy League,
   Hahvahd (or "3H,T5G"), and highing for the Platonic one,
   however naievely (or bass-ackwards), and in joining the Navy --
 not just as a continuance of oligarchical Naval Intelligence!
      he took the lesson that you have not, in spite
   of his simplistical & see-thorough insistence
   upon being "apolitical" --a Solopsistic and Sophomoric notion,
   if ever there was one-- which may have saved him
   from the bigwigs amongst whom he dallied (Boston Brahmins,
   initially).  for, in such a notional a/political framework,
   it is ultimately ineffective as a liberating philosophy.
      so, if you're really going to create the Bucky Party,
   you'll have to wait til cryogenics has proceeded, to the place
   when you can thaw his head "out" for the VP slot --
   he'd be the first intellectual to occupy that niche,
   in a long while!

   just to launcha counter-jihad,
   the following is of the utmost importance, in promoting any sort
   of technological degvelopment, "domes" e.g.,
   by putting-down the retro-colonial notion of "free trade",
   that is embodied in NAFTA etc. -- use the 888 #, please.

   thus quoth:
    The Rules Committee meets on Tuesday the 13th of July to decide on the
    for floor consideration of H.R. 434. The Republican leadership is
    for a so-called "closed rule" on the bill, i.e. no amendments and
    time for debate. This would completely block any attempts to amend
    (NAFTA for Africa) by replacing it with the HOPE for Africa Act. Rep.
    Jackson Jr. has several amendments that he is planning to introduce on
    floor, which would basically replace "NAFTA for Africa" with HOPE for
    (H.R. 772), but with a closed rule he couldn't do so.

    The first thing we all need to do is to pile on the Democratic Members
    the Rules Committee and urge them to oppose a closed rule in the Rules
    Committee. The issue in question here is whether we should allow for an
    and democratic debate on the issue. Many Democrats support Rep. Jackson
    Jr.'s "HOPE for Africa" bill, and favor an open debate that allows it
    also get airtime. The GOP want to shut this down and force Democrats to
    support NAFTA for Africa as a do or die issue. The decision on the
    Committee will show the split along the party lines between the "NAFTA
    Africa Bill" and "HOPE", and make it a lot harder for the Democrats to
    support the bill on the floor.

    Getting the Democrats into a big fight over the Rule gives us another
    kill the NAFTA for Africa Bill. Some Democrats (like for instance Rep.
    Hinchey - D-26th/NY) have promised Rep. Rangel that they will support
    434. But, they also can be convinced to oppose the Rule as a matter of
    principle - making sure Democrats get a chance to also get their ideas
    the floor. That means even more possible votes for us.

    Take Action!

    After you have called the Dems on the Rules Committee (remember -
   you don't have to be from their state or district to call them), you
 need
   to get on the phone and call your Member of Congress and urge her to:

      * Oppose a closed rule

      * Oppose H.R. 434 when it comes to a vote on Wednesday the 14th.
 Use the toll-free number 1-888-449-3511 and ask to speak
 to the person who handles trade issues.

      The Democratic Members of the Rules Committee are:

      Member:                                 Trade Staffer:

      Joe Moakley (9th-MA)                    Steven LaRose
      Martin Frost (24th-TX)                  Angela Brewer
      Tony Hall (3rd-OH)                      Bob Zachritz
      Louise McIntosh Slaughter (28th-NY)     Dan O'Grady

   We have a short window of opportunity to make a huge difference on this
   Bill. Make the calls to both the Rules Democrats and your House Member
   each day until the vote and get your friends & family to do the same!

    For questions/comments/reports call 202-546-4996 and ask for any member
    of he Global Trade Watch Team or check out our web-page:
   www.tradewatch.org

      Call Congress: 888-449-3511 (or long distance 202-224-3121)

      **********************************
      In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is
     distributed
      without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in
   receiving the
      included information for research and educational purposes.

      Margrete Strand Rangnes
      MAI Project Coordinator

  --SAA16529.931571410/pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us-
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:29:10 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: When  tensegrities sag
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Is there a rule, like "a strut is stiff enough if while standing
> vertically it can support 3 times its weight without shortening by
> more than 1%"? Or a relation between strut strength and useable tendon
> strength? Would it be useful to use asymmetrical tendon lengths to
> compensate for the irregularities of strut weights? (After all every
> trunk is thicker at one end than the other, and some are stronger than
> others.)

You could double the problem struts.Once in Princeton bucky made a tensegrity
sphere about 30 feet or so
a tractor backed into one side and it bent the strut directly on the
other side of the hit of the tractor.  This is the way the wave went
around the precessional hyperbolic surface and collided ont the other
side.  Einstein looked at it if I recall right and liked it very much.
This was years after Albert wrote bucky a letter concerning mrs. Murphy's
horse power in 9 chains to the moon, which was named after the amount of the
population standing on each ones shoulders at the time on earth and how
many times it would make a chain to the moon of 250k miles.  Being 6 billion
miles to day at 5 foot average = 6 billion times 5 feet divided by 5,280 feet
divided by 500K will give the the amount of chains to the moon
we have today for a new book title for anyone wanting to make a fuller
book , like me.  Maybe a chapter anyway, I had thought of this before I
heard jay baldwin talk about it at the bfi, it shows the problem of over
population
we have on earth because of the lag of technology and management of the
planets
resources that is forcing us into world war 3,4,5, and 6 which as Albert
stated
will be with sticks and stones again. Get a boat and leave the countries to
pay for
everything with out us. Go to sea and to hell with war.
Precession is tensegrities in motion. sag is an actors guild.
Amy rules the synergetics books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eat your heart out bonnie. Peter you sure are hitting the net with
pr i hope you bar me from the next meeting like kirby has this way
i will feel like bucky did with all the clicks and clubs that kept him
away from the main stream and made him famous.
The truth needs no support it is integrity with built in tensegrity.
regards: The tensegrity octahedron is the simplest one to make with
the xyz axis as the compression members and connect the apex ends
of the sticks with string, try it with your kids, it will stand on the
mantle as the trophy for the year 2000 to show the future can
be made to work if we try and collaborate management's of the world.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:45:31 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Marina Jihad HQ Fatwa (was: Domestic Violins)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am planning a trip to catalina with a theatre groupe with many
ne=bils to boot, is anyone interested, chip in gas for the ship and
lets go.  The Deoxidus cruzio in marini delrayio. Anyone interested
I have 10 openings to go camping, must have own geodesic tent,
or sleep in carbboard box with triangles drawn on it, email to
CRUZIO syntrivity cruz, attention tom cruz - coordinator.
Must have bought Michael riversong music to enter.

Brian Hutchings wrote:

he took the lesson that you have not, in spite

>    of his simplistical & see-thorough insistence
>    upon being "apolitical" -

This does not mean for us to do the same, we need pete for
president, I think pete would make a good president
take GENI and make it the fuller party for president.
I nominate pete for president, he has hair as well.
He knows Gorbi, and has not taken acid.
What about it hucth do you second the motion.
PETE FOR PRESIDENT! I am serious.
The fuller force party. Make the world work.
I will just wave flags of the dymaxion map.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:13:30 -0400
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      When tensegrities sag
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> wow, it sounds insurmountable to me, if there was bowing
> under tensions that you tried.

Well, there IS bowing, so that if I sight from one strut end to the
other end 13 feet away, near the middle the centerline of the strut is
a couple of inches off my line of sight. It varies (some struts still
look as straight as tree trunks) and maybe it varies depending on how
I have rolled the tensegrity. It's hard to measure when the bowing
strut is in the upper hemisphere since I can't reach it. And obviously
I can't lean a ladder against it :-)

It may be insurmountable; obviously if you take a real working
tensegrity and whittle its struts down thinner and thinner, at some
point they will be too weak to support the weight of the tendons. Will
they be too weak to support their own weight first? I think so -- the
column length doesn't change, but its diameter keeps getting smaller.
I think 13 foot struts (3" diameter at the thickest ends) are already
skinny, as columns go (but they worked as trees.)

> but asymmetrical tendons might do it, I suppose; if so,
> you should be able to make it look just, so.

I'm thinking of an adjustable hub (a 2" length of 4.5" dia plastic
corrugated drain line) which I could slide closer to the center of a
strut if the strut started bending. I could pull it closer to the end
of the thicker struts with a wire cage over the end of the strut. The
4 tendons would be tied to the hub, not the strut.

Of course we mean DELIBERATELY asymmetrical tendons, since they are
not perfectly symmetrical now. It seems like if the tendons were
custom-sized to local strut curvature, the stress could be distributed
among the struts so that the weakest ones don't bend any more than the
strongest ones. If moveable hubs work, adjusting the radius from
103" (.6614 * strut length) to a few inches shorter on the bowing
struts, and longer on the stiffest ones could also spread the load.
The load might still be too great; I don't know how to calculate the
compression on a strut in even the simplest case with weighty uniform
struts and perfect length weightless tendons.

Does the compression a strut feels depend on whether it has one end on
the ground, or is in the equator, or at the top, etc? If so, the
moveble hubs would be in the wrong position if I rolled it; turn it
upside down, and a strut might buckle.

> the only other thing, I can think of, is
> to taper the ends to make long "cigars".

Too much work! But I get the point, reducing strut compression by
reducing strut weight at the thick end where it is not going to bow.

> I'm not sure whether it was from Pugh's or Kenner's book, but
> I made the one that is a cuboctahedron,
> whose struts are joined to make 4 interpenetrating trigona [triangles],

That's it, Pugh calls it a "Twelve-strut Three-layer System" in his
Appendix 2. Bob Burkhardt drew me some gifs, I don't suppose
attachments belong here. Bob also suggested other symmetrical tendon
length possibilities, including a zig-zag pattern in which the problem
struts are higher off the ground in weightless models. We think those
designs would keep the problem struts off the ground even with this
much sag. But the base triangle gets smaller when the problem struts
get higher, so it would be harder to keep it standing on a triangle,
it would often roll onto a square.

> [triangles], using just ordinary 2' dowels, and
> some stainless steel safety-wire, that I got
> from a local A&P shop at the airport.

I bet that steel wire has much more tensile strength than necessary to
keep 1 pound of dowels up on 3 ends. Even "2 pound" nylon monofilament
(the smallest I see at Walmart) would work. Bob may know how to
compensate for tendons that stretch. Obviously the weight of the
struts affects how much tension is required to get it up on 3 ends.
Can anybody tell me the minimum tension that will work with 20 pound
struts? Obviously my struts can support more than their own weight;
how much load do they see in a tensegrity?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:18:52 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: FREE BROCHURE
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Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ernie=20
To: Joe S Moore=20
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: FREE BROCHURE


Thanks, my latest effort is the dome tour - =
http://www.gtwn.net/~wgd/dome_tour.html=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
Your free dome brochure will be mailed.=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DD O M E  G R E E T I N G S !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
  Welcome to Worldflower Garden Domes. Our name signifies the world =
blossoming with geodesic domes for greenhouse gardening and other uses.=20

  Have you seen the Garden Dome web pages? They start at =
http://www.gardendome.com=20

New features on the Garden Dome web pages:=20
Octa-Gazebo-Dome=20
Steel Domes=20
Diamond Truss Domes=20
Emergency Shelter/ Survival Domes=20
Y2K and Domes=20
The Geo-Sphere Dome Sculpture=20
Observatory Domes=20
Updated FAQs=20
Elliptical Domes=20
  You have a wide variety of choices with our domes- type and size, =
materials, simple to complex, inexpensive to expensive.=20

  "Connector Kits" provide do-it-yourself dome constructing materials; =
purchase your own lumber locally and save. "Frame Kits" are complete =
domes packages shipped to your building site, and may include precut =
roof deck panels.=20

  We also have a 60 page catalog of 8-1/2" x 11" sheets. These are $10 =
ea. to cover printing and mailing expense.=20

Sincerely,=20
Ernie Aiken=20
Dome Design, Technical Illustration=20
----------------------------------------------------------------=20
New geodesic designs based on our exclusive construction connection =
system.=20
Patents pending with the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office=20

Worldflower Garden Domes, Inc.=20
PO BOX 2103=20
Georgetown, Tx. 78627=20

Toll Free 1-877-999-DOME=20
email gardendome@yahoo.com=20
http://www.gardendome.com=20
_____________________________________=20

Joe S Moore wrote:=20

  Ernie,=20
  Please send your free brochure to=20
  Joe S Moore=20
  PO Box 2737=20
  Aptos, CA 95001-2737=20

  I think you are doing a great job developing Tetra & Octa Geodesics in =

  addition to Icosa, and using metal & plastic in addition to wood. Keep =
up=20
  the good work.=20

  (Ref http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/WGD1.htm )=20

  Joe S Moore=20
  mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com=20
  Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute=20
  http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

 =20

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:wgd@gtwn.net" title=3Dwgd@gtwn.net>Ernie</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"=20
title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com>Joe S Moore</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 10, 1999 7:19 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: FREE BROCHURE</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, my latest effort is the dome tour - <A=20
href=3D"http://www.gtwn.net/~wgd/dome_tour.html">http://www.gtwn.net/~wgd=
/dome_tour.html</A>=20
<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <BR>Your free dome brochure will be=20
mailed. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<FONT color=3D#3333ff>D O M E&nbsp; G R E E T =
I N G S=20
!</FONT>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <BR>&nbsp; Welcome to <FONT =
color=3D#009900>Worldflower Garden=20
Domes</FONT>. Our name signifies the world blossoming with geodesic =
domes for=20
greenhouse gardening and other uses. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp; Have you seen the Garden Dome web pages? They start at =
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.gardendome.com">http://www.gardendome.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>New features on the Garden Dome web pages: <BR>Octa-Gazebo-Dome =

<BR>Steel Domes <BR>Diamond Truss Domes <BR>Emergency Shelter/ Survival =
Domes=20
<BR>Y2K and Domes <BR>The Geo-Sphere Dome Sculpture <BR>Observatory =
Domes=20
<BR>Updated FAQs <BR>Elliptical Domes </DIV>
<P>&nbsp; You have a wide variety of choices with our domes- type and =
size,=20
materials, simple to complex, inexpensive to expensive.&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp; "Connector Kits" provide do-it-yourself dome constructing =
materials;=20
purchase your own lumber locally and save. "Frame Kits" are complete =
domes=20
packages shipped to your building site, and may include precut roof deck =
panels.=20
</P>
<P>&nbsp; We also have a 60 page catalog of 8-1/2" x 11" sheets. These =
are $10=20
ea. to cover printing and mailing expense. </P>
<P>Sincerely, <BR>Ernie Aiken <BR>Dome Design, Technical Illustration=20
<BR>---------------------------------------------------------------- =
<BR>New=20
geodesic designs based on our exclusive construction connection system.=20
<BR>Patents pending with the U.S. Patent &amp; Trademark Office </P>
<P>Worldflower Garden Domes, Inc. <BR>PO BOX 2103 <BR>Georgetown, Tx. =
78627 </P>
<P>Toll Free 1-877-999-DOME <BR>email gardendome@yahoo.com <BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.gardendome.com">http://www.gardendome.com</A>=20
<BR>_____________________________________ </P>
<P>Joe S Moore wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">Ernie,=20
  <P>Please send your free brochure to <BR>Joe S Moore <BR>PO Box 2737=20
  <BR>Aptos, CA 95001-2737=20
  <P>I think you are doing a great job developing Tetra &amp; Octa =
Geodesics in=20
  <BR>addition to Icosa, and using metal &amp; plastic in addition to =
wood. Keep=20
  up <BR>the good work.=20
  <P>(Ref <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.fastlane.net/~ega/WGD1.htm">http://www.fastlane.net/~e=
ga/WGD1.htm</A>=20
  )=20
  <P>Joe S Moore <BR><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com</A>=20
  <BR>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute <BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A></P></BLOCKQUOTE>&nbsp;=20
</BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BECABD.9C1E1740--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:39:53 -0400
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      When tensegrities sag
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> You could double the problem struts.

I have doubled a few struts when they bowed by about a foot during
adjustments, but not the ones I'm calling "problem struts", altho
bowing is a problem. The 3 I call "problem struts" are not bowing
much, they're a problem because they ought to be suspended a foot off
the ground, but they rest one end on the ground. They're the closest
ones to vertical when the triangle with 3 "base strut" ends is on the
bottom. I routinely roll it so the 3 thickest ends are on the ground,
but if I roll it onto a different triangle, then I still have 3
problem struts, just different ones.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:41:29 -0700
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From:         Bruce Ward <bward@METRO.NET>
Organization: Some say this; some say that; nobody knows for sure.
Subject:      Re: When  tensegrities sag
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Lee Bonnifield wrote:
>
> I built a 12 strut tensegrity using small tree trunks (13 feet long,
> about 2.5" diameter.) It sags too much, and I'd like practical and
> theoretical advice.

(snip)
>
> Is there a rule, like "a strut is stiff enough if while standing
> vertically it can support 3 times its weight without shortening by
> more than 1%"? Or a relation between strut strength and useable tendon
> strength? Would it be useful to use asymmetrical tendon lengths to
> compensate for the irregularities of strut weights? (After all every
> trunk is thicker at one end than the other, and some are stronger than
> others.)

Anytime you are dealing with struts as compression members you must
consider "slenderness ratio".  Steel, if I recall correctly, has a
slenderness ratio of about 32:1.  This means that when the length is
greater than 32x the diameter, the strut will be subject to
buckling/failure.

Using wood at 13' (156")x 2.5" gives you a "slenderness ratio" of more
than 62:1.

Don't know what the compressive strength of tulip poplar is, but I'll
bet it's considerably less than steel.

Your struts will have to be shorter or fatter.  If you want to keep the
length, you might increase the diameter by using spreaders and stays the
way a tall mast is stiffened on a sailboat.  Couple of bicycle wheels
per strut for spreaders and a whole bunch more wire (and time) oughta do
it.  :<)   Good Luck and happy experimenting!

.....................................................................................

One mechanically repeatable experiment is worth 10,000 good-sounding
explanations.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:38:23 -0400
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      When tensegrities sag
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> Anytime you are dealing with struts as compression members you must
> consider "slenderness ratio".  Steel, if I recall correctly, has a
> slenderness ratio of about 32:1.  This means that when the length is
> greater than 32x the diameter, the strut will be subject to
> buckling/failure.

I found a discussion of that in a scientific encyclopedia.

"A short column under the action of an axial load will fail by direct
compression but a long column loaded in the same manner will fail by
buckling (bending), the buckling effect being so large that the effect
of the direct load may be neglected. The intermediate length column
will fail by a combination of direct stress and bending."

What "short" means varies with material, but it says 50 for steel, 10
for concrete and wood. The book uses radius rather than diameter in
the slenderness ratio. A "long" steel column has a slenderness ratio
greater than 200.

> Using wood at 13' (156")x 2.5" gives you a "slenderness ratio" of more
> than 62:1.

> Don't know what the compressive strength of tulip poplar is, but I'll
> bet it's considerably less than steel.

No doubt, but I don't know either. Using 2 plastic drinking straws (8"
long, 3/16" dia) butted end to end (over a short piece of another
straw) I have a working (but approx weightless) tensegrity with a
slenderness ratio of 170. Buckling at the joint has started in a few
struts, but as soon as they buckle a little their load is reduced, so
it will still stand on any of the 8 triangles. (That redistribution of
load gives me hope for the moveable hubs I've considered.) I think it
might have worked even if I had added a 3rd straw, for a slenderness
ratio of 256. Tubes are much better than solid rods when it comes to
resisting buckling, but of course my tree trunks are solid.

> Your struts will have to be shorter or fatter.  If you want to keep the
> length, you might increase the diameter by using spreaders and stays the
> way a tall mast is stiffened on a sailboat.  Couple of bicycle wheels
> per strut for spreaders and a whole bunch more wire (and time) oughta do
> it.  :<)   Good Luck and happy experimenting!

I'm afraid you're right. I don't know how those spreaders and stays
are configured. I'm unlikely to put in the time to do it here but I'd
appreciate learning how they work if you will explain.

The encyclopedia gives a simple formula from Euler with which I could
calculate the maximum load if I knew tulip poplar's modulus of
elasticity. It includes bad news for moveable hubs, which I think
would allow both ends of the strut to twist (which would be less
likely with tendons tied directly to the strut). The maximum load when
both ends are fixed is 4 times higher than when both ends are free to
turn. :-(
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:33:12 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: sag in tensegrity

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      10-JUL-1999 13:33
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oh, spreaders, yes; the wheel (if it'd fit) would be in the middle,
 as if the strut were its axis, with additional tendons
 going  from end to end of the strut (at least 3?);\
 effectively increases the girth, and in a sort
 of "cigar" shape (as in one of the Bucky bio-books;
 I did not mean to whittle the *whole* strut, thinner, but
 it'd be too much work, without some mechanized jig !-)
    just "polarizing" the spheric into an oblong ellipsoid
 (on the 3-fold axis) may be the easiest, if not the best, to do.
 I did not grok the part about the hub(s) etc.

 --The Duke of Oil
 http://www.tarpley.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:41:22 -0400
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      Re: sag in tensegrity
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> oh, spreaders, yes; the wheel (if it'd fit) would be in the middle,
> as if the strut were its axis, with additional tendons
> going  from end to end of the strut (at least 3?);\
> effectively increases the girth, and in a sort
> of "cigar" shape (as in one of the Bucky bio-books;
> I did not mean to whittle the *whole* strut, thinner,

I get it. Now I remember the 3 little posts sticking radially out of a
mast, with cables over their Y-ends. I guess the cables don't need to
have much tension while the mast is straight, so they don't contribute
much more compressive force. If it starts to bend the only cable that
gets tighter is the one on the outside of the bend. A wheel with many
wires would work as well even if each wire were weaker.

Inhomogeneities in my tree trunks might mean that one strut always
bows "in the same direction". A single wire could reinforce that
direction, if I had a spreader post sticking out of the outside of
that habitual bend. That may actually be practical if I wanted to
stiffen a strut without doubling its weight. Three times so far when I
wanted to prevent a strut from bowing by a foot I strapped another
small trunk to it tightly.

I think I won't do any more strut strengthening until I get a clue
about how much compressive force a strut must withstand, given that
all twelve struts weigh eg 20 pounds each. The theory so far in my
tensegrity education is entirely about weightless struts and tendons.
Practice with a 300 pound tensegrity shows I don't know how to predict
when a strut is stiff enough for its weight.

Wood obviously works with a slenderness ratio higher than 10; I think
your 2' dowels would have to be 5 inches in diameter to qualify as
"short" columns. If you had used 2' posts 5" in diameter with steel
wire you could pull it REALLY tight and it wouldn't bow. I bet you
used 1/2" or 3/8" diameter 2' dowels, and didn't pull it so hard, and
still got almost exactly the same shape. Small amounts of bowing (or
tendon stretching) don't seem like a problem, especially if load gets
shifted to unbowed struts when bowing causes a weak strut to get the
tiniest bit shorter.

So, I wonder if I can tolerate visible bowing in some struts. If all
twelve posts were strapped tightly together in a single column, it
would be about 10" in diameter, for a slenderness ratio of 30.
Obviously in a tensegrity the struts do not support each other like
they would if they were strapped together, but all twelve struts (even
the bowing ones) are contributing to the outward force keeping the
tensegrity "inflated". How much force is required, compared with
supporting 12 tree crowns, like these trunks used to do? (I should
have weighed a crown!)

With 1/2" dowels and steel wire you COULD have pulled the wire tight
enough to bend a strut, but you got the tensegrity erected without
pulling nearly that tight. How tight do you have to pull, for a given
strut weight? I expect that like with my models, you didn't have to
consider how hard to pull any more than you had to worry about how
hard it was to lift a dowel -- so you just made the tendons the proper
length, and ignored tension. But I had to use a come-along (hand
winch) to pull strut ends together when I wanted to attach the last
tendons.

> I did not grok the part about the hub(s) etc.

I'll explain more thoroughly if I actually try that; basically it's an
alternative way to join the tendons to the struts. At first I just
tied the end of each tendon as a wire loop 6" from each end of the
strut (which gave an effective strut length of 12'.) Sometimes the tie
points would slip toward the center, further than 6" from the end.
Then I had to pull them back out again with a wire cage over the end
of the strut. The hubs I'm thinking of would make it easy to adjust
the tie point of all four tendons at once, so I could move it more
than 6" from the strut end if I wanted to reduce the load on one
strut.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:23:40 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      TENSEGRITY
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Those interested may want to go to the home page of my website (URL below)
and do a search for "tensegrity".  There should be 79 separate items about
tensegrities.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:28:05 -0400
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From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      Re: TENSEGRITY
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> Those interested may want to go to the home page of my website (URL below)
> and do a search for "tensegrity".  There should be 79 separate items about
> tensegrities.

> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

Thanks, I found those 79. When I added "weight" search found 4 but I don't
think any of those help with the general problem of how the compression on a
tensegrity strut is related to the strut's weight. So I'd still appreciate
pointers.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:23:06 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: When tensegrities sag
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Lee,

Attachments are OK.

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM> wrote in message news:
<01b301becaf7$b248c940$466e41cf@default>...

(big snip)

> That's it, Pugh calls it a "Twelve-strut Three-layer System" in his
> Appendix 2. Bob Burkhardt drew me some gifs, I don't suppose
> attachments belong here.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:24:55 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      FYI
Comments: To: mad@orbits.com
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Mark,

My website may be of interest to you.

(Ref http://www.orbits.com/~mad/fvu.html )

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:24:36 -0700
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From:         Mark Siegmund <siegmund@THEGRID.NET>
Subject:      Re: FYI
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Joe, thanks for the referral
Mark

> Mark,
>
> My website may be of interest to you.
>
> (Ref http://www.orbits.com/~mad/fvu.html )
>
> Joe S Moore
> mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>


--
Regards,
Mark Siegmund
email:  siegmund@thegrid.net
Tetworld Peace Through Development Project & Game
Introductory Page:  http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/world1.html
Main page: http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/+index.html
The Tetworld Story:
http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/index.htm
Award winning ezine"21st" (Tetrahedron and the Game article)
http://www.vxm.com/link.siegmund.html
To subscribe to Buckminster Fuller discussion list about global game concept
and proposal, or to join the Tetworld Game list or the Belize Development
list, go to:  http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/+index.html
and select the desired option.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:40:10 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: ELECTRON MODELS
Comments: To: Dave Bergman <DBergman@compuserve.com>
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Dave,

I really don't know enough about the physics of the atom to make an
intelligent comment except to say that I noticed a similarity between your
work and Snelson's.  However, I'm taking the liberty of sending a copy of
this reply to the Geodesic list which is gatewayed to the Geodesic newsgroup
which has about 10,000 readers.  Hopefully one of those readers will have an
interest in electron shell models and can carry on an intelligent dialogue
with you.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Bergman <DBergman@compuserve.com>
To: Joe Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 1999 1:35 PM
Subject: ELECTRON MODELS


> Dear Joe,
>
> At your suggestion, I looked at the web site feature Snelson's "Portrait
of
> an Atom."  I found it interesting and even useful and printed a copy for
my
> files.
>
> A quick review makes me think that
>
>         1.  Snelson's model may include the randomness of the Heisenberg
> Uncertainty Principle.  This must be rejected on basis of observations
that
> support the law of cause and effect.  J. Paul Wesley cites many examples
> where the position and momentum of elementary particles are known more
> precisely than the HUP allows. [Classical Quantum Theory, chapter 6].
>
>         2.  The configuration called ortho-hydrogen is possible, but the
> configuration called para-hydrogen does not meet a balance of forces
> because Snelson has the magnetic force backwards.  If the inner ring were
> much smaller, though, a balance of forces can exist under the right
> circumstances. (Common Sense Science is starting to build a computer
> simulation that will compute forces, electric fields, and potential energy
> for any number and configuration of spinning charged rings.)
>
>         3.  Some other ideas of the Snelson model are much like the ring
> model of Common Sense Science, but a rigorous development of the Snelson
> Atom appears impossible.
>
> CSS has about 20 scientific papers on the ring model, forces between
> electrons, etc.  What you saw on the CSS Web Site is only an introduction.
> These physics papers and an order form are available from me.  We also
> publish "Foundations of Science," and you can receive a free subscription
> if you provide your postal address (sent by e-mail).
>
> Sincerely,
> Dave Bergman
> Common Sense Science.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:07:54 -0700
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From:         CybEarth Conference <cybearth@HYPERION.CIIS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: SUGGESTED LINK
Comments: To: joemoore@cruzio.com, websites@planetworkers.com

Hi Joe,
        thank you for the link.  I will look at the site,
        I  too am an admirer of Bucky's work.   I apologize
        that we have not anwsered your mail til this morning.


- Steve Foster
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:02:29 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: TENSEGRITY
MIME-Version: 1.0
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girth to length ratio of the 92 elements in different synergetic mixes.
You have to stick to one material to get one answer.  Bucky would
say the largest possible compression strut you could make would
be like they make to tie ships on in the middle of the desert.
You take 1,000 iron rebarb and tie cable around it and it will take
a hex agnol closest packing with the tension of the cable around it.
()-:)  then you make a cap that holds the packing together this was
his idea of a birthday package, and an anniversary package for Anne.
Happy Birthday Bucky and Happy Anniversary Anne.
I move to make a new calendar that starts with his birthday as
the first date of the AD like we do for christ.
The bucky calendar, Then the amount of times we go around
the sun we can say it is bucky christmas today., I am serious.
Lets start a world game calendar.  This is ad would start 1983
so it is the year, 16.  The year 2000 is based on the amount
of times we have gone around the sun since JC death.
We can have Y16K problem now.
I will be moving to catalina island soon as I can find out how
to get on the net from the boat.
Happy holiday to the fuller's on Bear Island today.
I was on the way back from Catalina Island from a week end
out there scoping out the place at the two harbors and I found some
birthday balloons floating in the channel on a sunny day coming back.
I aimed the boat at them and caught them as I went by and screamed
happy birthday bucky.  They are now flying from the front of my boat and
everyone is wondering on my dock why they are there.
Synergy.

Lee Bonnifield wrote:

> > Those interested may want to go to the home page of my website (URL below)
> > and do a search for "tensegrity".  There should be 79 separate items about
> > tensegrities.
>
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> Thanks, I found those 79. When I added "weight" search found 4 but I don't
> think any of those help with the general problem of how the compression on a
> tensegrity strut is related to the strut's weight. So I'd still appreciate
> pointers.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:37:16 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: ELECTRON MODELS
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Just for the ideas of mine that I think are worth sharing.
I see that if you look out into the stars you are seeing the same
event that is happening in the electron from it's center.
This is a unitivitists idea but I find it worthwhile.
Grace to Anne and Bucky on there day of wedding
and death as well as bucky's birthday all this week.
Respect to the Fuller family on Bear Island this week and may
or thoughts be with them as they reflect on the past.
May we help them in the Future with the Buckminster Fuller
Institute to make it an ever more expanding livingry/lovingry tool for the
world.
Please support the BFI and the World Game for it is our
only chance to survive for our children of the world to come.

Joe S Moore wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I really don't know enough about the physics of the atom to make an
> intelligent comment except to say that I noticed a similarity between your
> work and Snelson's.  However, I'm taking the liberty of sending a copy of
> this reply to the Geodesic list which is gatewayed to the Geodesic newsgroup
> which has about 10,000 readers.  Hopefully one of those readers will have an
> interest in electron shell models and can carry on an intelligent dialogue
> with you.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave Bergman <DBergman@compuserve.com>
> To: Joe Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 1999 1:35 PM
> Subject: ELECTRON MODELS
>
> > Dear Joe,
> >
> > At your suggestion, I looked at the web site feature Snelson's "Portrait
> of
> > an Atom."  I found it interesting and even useful and printed a copy for
> my
> > files.
> >
> > A quick review makes me think that
> >
> >         1.  Snelson's model may include the randomness of the Heisenberg
> > Uncertainty Principle.  This must be rejected on basis of observations
> that
> > support the law of cause and effect.  J. Paul Wesley cites many examples
> > where the position and momentum of elementary particles are known more
> > precisely than the HUP allows. [Classical Quantum Theory, chapter 6].
> >
> >         2.  The configuration called ortho-hydrogen is possible, but the
> > configuration called para-hydrogen does not meet a balance of forces
> > because Snelson has the magnetic force backwards.  If the inner ring were
> > much smaller, though, a balance of forces can exist under the right
> > circumstances. (Common Sense Science is starting to build a computer
> > simulation that will compute forces, electric fields, and potential energy
> > for any number and configuration of spinning charged rings.)
> >
> >         3.  Some other ideas of the Snelson model are much like the ring
> > model of Common Sense Science, but a rigorous development of the Snelson
> > Atom appears impossible.
> >
> > CSS has about 20 scientific papers on the ring model, forces between
> > electrons, etc.  What you saw on the CSS Web Site is only an introduction.
> > These physics papers and an order form are available from me.  We also
> > publish "Foundations of Science," and you can receive a free subscription
> > if you provide your postal address (sent by e-mail).
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Dave Bergman
> > Common Sense Science.
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:51:46 -0600
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Riversong <mriversong@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Leaving the List
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Howdy Folks --

Over the past year or so a lot of interesting conversation has happened
within this group.  Also there have been a few strange little flame wars,
and i must apologize for my contribution to those.  I learned something there.

At this time it is necessary for me to leave Geodesic.  My email volume has
become nearly unmanageable, and something had to go.

If any of you would like to continue private correspondence, that would be
great.

Over the next few weeks i will be seeking new technical writing projects,
and offering Feng Shui consulting services over the Internet.  Some of what
i have learned here on Geodesic will contribute to the Feng Shui work, of
course.

Special thanks go to:

Joe Moore, for all the great references.
Michael Mitchell, for the compliments and cross-link.
Kirby Urner, for teaching me something.


-- Michael Riversong
P.O. Box 2775 * Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003
Design Ecology -- Unifying music and education, to create a living
environment that works for you.
web address: http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong
(307)635-0900
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:16:51 -0700
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@BOX2321.COM>
Subject:      8,000 miles to the gallon automobile
MIME-Version: 1.0
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[Those with an interest in advanced transportation devices, such as Fuller
exhibited with his Dymaxion Car, should take note.  Reprinted without
permission; please see URL for complete story.]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsid_395000/395366.stm

Thursday, July 15, 1999 Published at 17:22 GMT 18:22 UK

Running on empty ... almost

It may look like the Wacky Races, but this is serious stuff.

More than 100 teams are competing in the Shell Eco-Marathon at the
Silverstone race track in Northamptonshire. Their one goal is to see how
far they can get these amazing machines to travel on a minuscule amount of
fuel.

While we might be delirious if we managed 40 miles (64 kilometres) to the
gallon (4.5 litres) pottering about town in our super minis, these people
would not be happy until they had seen the mileometer click through the
hundreds.

Indeed, the 1998 winner scored an extraordinary average of 8,000 miles
(12,800 kilometres) to the gallon.

The teams have a choice of petrol or diesel, with solar assistance
permitted for the first time this year. A car is allowed three 40-minute
runs. It must average at least 15 mph (24 kph) after which the stewards at
the meeting calculate the machine's fuel efficiency.

--
        http://www.box2321.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:57:24 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Tensegrity page
Comments: To: Robert W Burkhardt <bobwb@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Bob,

I hope to have my site updated by the end of this month & I will add your
feedback to my "to do" list.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert W Burkhardt <bobwb@juno.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 5:02 AM
Subject: Tensegrity page


> Hi Joe,
>
> I finally got around to searching your site for tensegrity items and
> found some I hadn't seen before.  It is an amazing compilation you have
> there and I appreciate you going to the trouble of putting it together.
>
> I also appreciate the links to my site.  I'd like to get deeper into my
> tensegrity research, but I really need outside interest.  Your site will
> certainly help contribute and I imagine already has.
>
> A few problems I noticed on Links/Domes-T.htm.  For my "Tensegrity
> Viewer" should be to channel1, not channel11.  The companion link to my
> tensegrity prospectus is fine.  Also the servers for the Engelbertus
> Tijseling and Jackie Goldberg links on that page claimed the pages didn't
> exist.  Too bad because I was particularly interested in the former link.
>
> Thanks again for providing this resource.
>
> Bob Burkhardt
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
> Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 1999 00:26:59 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Synergetics, Inc: dome website of historical interest
In-Reply-To:  <000f01becc8d$99846bc0$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
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Joe --

You may have already posted a link to this website,
but I just discovered it today.  For those who know
the history of Fuller and domes, there's lots here
of scholarly interest, whether or not you're in the
market for a complex geodesic dome structure:

http://www.synergeticsinc.com/


This is the firm that did the pavilion for the=20
international trade fair in Kabul, Afghanistan,=20
as well as the octet truss at the Museum of=20
Modern Art in NYC, when Bucky was the featured
artist.  This company also built the Union=20
Tank Car Company dome in Baton Rouge in 1957.=20

Lots of pictures, history. T.C. Howard is the=20
main designer/inventor behind this operation.

I've added a link from my
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domeman.html

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:04:59 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Synergetics, Inc: dome website of historical interest
Comments: To: Kirby Urner <urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Kirby,

Thanks for the tip. FYI, there's a company called ArcData Online that has US
topographic maps available online!  If you go to

http://www.esri.com/data/online/hti/index.html

and type in "Wood River" and "IL", a topo map will appear. If you recenter
the map about an inch up and to the left and then zoom in to the closest
level (1:24,000), the Wood River dome will show as a red circle about a half
inch in diameter.  The URL is:

http://mapserver.esri.com/cgi-bin/sure.adol?c=-90.106515,38.872630&p=1&m=0&c
d=o&g=-90.09750000,38.86111100&a=Wood+River%2c+Illinois&r=y

The corresponding street map is
http://mapserver.esri.com/cgi-bin/sure.adol?c=-90.106515,38.872630&p=1&m=0&c
d=o&g=-90.09750000,38.86111100&a=Wood+River%2c+Illinois&r=n

but the dome doesn't show.  The closest cross streets are North Old St Louis
Rd and Picker Ave.

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

Kirby Urner <urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU> wrote in message news:
<378fcbf9.6761163@alumni.princeton.edu>...
>
(snip)
>
> http://www.synergeticsinc.com/
>
(snip)
>
> artist.  This company also built the Union
> Tank Car Company dome in Baton Rouge in 1957.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:11:53 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@BOX2321.COM>
Subject:      Fullerenes Found in Space, Linked to Origin of Life
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <synergetics-l@telelists.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

[Reprinted without permission: see URL for complete story]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsid_396000/396404.stm

Friday, July 16, 1999 Published at 18:05 GMT 19:05 UK

Rare form of carbon found in space

By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

Proof that a rare form of carbon could be drifting in the vast spaces
between the stars has been found by a team of scientists from the
University of Hawaii.

It is a discovery that may have implications for the origin of life on
Earth and possibly elsewhere in the Universe.

"It's not every day that you discover a new carbon molecule in nature;
that's what makes this interesting," Dr Luann Becker says.

Fullerenes are football shaped molecules of 60 or more carbon atoms. They
have many interesting properties and may eventually find industrial
applications.

Their discovery in 1985 as only the third form of pure carbon (along with
diamonds and graphite) earned its discoverers the 1996 Nobel Prize in
Chemistry.

--
        http://www.box2321.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:59:05 -0700
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From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@BOX2321.COM>
Subject:      Re: [synergetics-l] NY Times article -- Fuller Archive going to
              Stanford
Comments: To: Synergetics Listserv <synergetics-l@telelists.com>
In-Reply-To:  <LYR42945-387930-1999.07.17-09.52.22--box2321#box2321.com@telelists.com>
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[Complete article, reprinted without permission]

http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/fuller-revival.html

July 17, 1999

Buckminster Fuller's Papers Are Moving, and His Heirs Hope for Revived
Interest

By JAMES STERNGOLD

SANTA BARBARA, Calif., July 14 -- Perhaps the most illuminating impression
one gets from a stroll through the Buckminster Fuller Institute, a cramped
warren of offices in the balcony of an old movie theater here, is how
familiar all the artifacts produced by this great thinker seem today.


The geodesic domes, the Dymaxion maps, the tensegrity models and
octatrusses, all Fuller inventions that at one time seemed radically new,
have become ubiquitous in the late 20th century. Though the terminology
may still be obscure to some, his designs are common in everything from
playgrounds to giant shopping mall roofs to soccer balls. Indeed, Fuller's
clever geometric vocabulary has so insinuated itself into the grammar of
contemporary design that it takes a few moments to realize that some of
the objects at the institute -- a Balinese woven basket, a turtle shell, a
spiky stuffed puffer fish -- that Fuller had collected and studied sprang
from sources other than his awesomely original mind.

It is just as revealing, though, that one of the least familiar images at
the institute may be that of R. Buckminster Fuller himself. The
kindly-looking old man in a business suit with close cropped white hair
and thick glasses, the man who graced the cover of Time magazine in 1964
as a towering genius and who was popularly known as Bucky, has slipped,
much like the institute, from the public's mind.

That is one of the reasons that Fuller's daughter, Allegra Fuller Snyder,
and his grandson, Jaime Snyder, have just agreed to transfer the enormous
archives at the institute, hundreds of boxes of letters -- he seems to
have saved nearly every one he ever wrote or received -- manuscripts,
photographs, blueprints and videotapes, to Stanford University in Palo
Alto after several years of planning and negotiations.

The transfer seems unlikely to resuscitate Fuller to the cult status he
had when he wrote "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth" and was embraced
by the Whole Earth Catalogue and its followers in the 1960's. But the
family hopes the move -- partly a sale and partly a donation of the
archives -- will foster renewed interest in his extraordinary and at times
deeply subversive ideas about everything from home construction (he
designed a cheap prefabricated house that was suspended from a mast in the
1920's) and automobiles (in the 1930's he made a three-wheeled
cigar-shaped car that went 120 miles per hour on a 90-horsepower engine)
to political organization, (he thought military expenditures a colossal
waste and felt governments frustrated a more even distribution of wealth).

In short, his descendants say it may again be time for people to be
exposed to a romantic visionary who had few commercial instincts, little
use for accepted wisdom and extraordinary foresight.

"He felt he was surfing history in a sense, trying to anticipate the
trends," Ms. Snyder said. "Now some of those waves have come in. There's
also a different kind of chemistry today, especially among young people,
and that opens doors to his thinking once again."

The intellectual exile into which Fuller's ideas seemed to slide and the
spark of new interest in his prodigious work, which Stanford hopes to
enhance by organizing and cataloguing his archives, is a commentary on
shifting fashions in ideas.

By the time he died in 1983 at 87, Fuller and his work were already
falling out of favor, Ms. Snyder said. He seemed out of step with a time
when there was suspicion of anyone who rejected traditional thinking so
cheerfully and thought in such grandiose terms. The earth was almost too
small a unit, and he frequently spoke of the universe and man's place in
it. His selfless creed was that people should gather not wealth but
information and knowledge with the purpose of sharing it to make society
more successful by improving living standards.

He hewed to an absolute ethic of technological efficiency, of producing
more with fewer resources, a motivation that created astounding results
but that he regarded as the minimum society should expect if people
liberated their minds as he had. In 1957 a large geodesic dome auditorium
was built so swiftly in Honolulu that 22 hours after the parts were
delivered a full house of hundreds of people were happily taking in a
concert.

But when Ronald Reagan became President, the country took a sharpturn to
the right and the reputation of Fuller, who had became identified with the
counterculture of the 1960's, suffered.

Ms. Snyder and other experts on Fuller said that, though he had been
embraced by many 60's radicals, his work had always been pragmatic,
positive and apolitical. Still the country's drift to the right seemed to
leave him tainted.

E. J. Applewhite, who collaborated with Fuller on his two-volume behemoth,
"Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking," said that Fuller
was even more radical than many so-called 1960's radicals, but not because
of his life style, which was fairly conventional. He was from an old New
England family and, though twice thrown out of Harvard as a youth, nearly
always wore business suits and spent much of his career teaching at
universities. His grandson, Jaime Snyder, recalled being taught table
manners by Fuller at fine restaurants.

What was so unusual about Fuller, Mr. Applewhite said, was that he was
completely apolitical and believed not in philosophies but in principles
for problem-solving. What he disliked were impediments to technological
solutions of common problems. Chief among those impediments, in his view,
were tradition and cultural legacies, which thwarted the clear-eyed
thinking needed to invent efficient ways of improving people's lives. He
said change was not only good but also essential to saving the earth.

"I don't know what I am," he once said. "I know that I am not a category.
I am not a thing -- a noun. I seem to be a verb, an evolutionary process,
an integral function of the universe."

His free thinking appealed to a new generation eager to break old
intellectual models and enticed by the liberating promise of all kinds of
change.

"Young people, dropouts loved him because he said you don't have to earn a
living," said Mr. Applewhite, who collaborated with Fuller for several
decades even though he had spent his career working for the Central
Intelligence Agency, which Fuller loathed. "But these people generally
ignored the rest of what he said, which was that you have to just do what
has to be done. Just see what the needs of society are, and fill them."

His thinking was so eccentric that he was often regarded as something of a
crackpot until his ideas started to prove themselves and found their way
into common use. No one ever took him up on his idea of covering Manhattan
with a dome, for instance, (he believed the savings in snow removal alone
would pay for the structure), but the United States pavilion at Expo '67
in Montreal was in a memorably giant geodesic dome and his octatrusses, a
lightweight, strong honeycomb of a structure that can span great
distances, are common at shopping malls and convention centers.

He ultimately had 25 patents, wrote 28 books, received 47 honorary
doctorates and was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He invented
not only objects (he called them artifacts) but words as well with an eye
to literalness. For instance, he called people earthians, referred to
sunsets as sunclipses and prefaced the names of many of his inventions
with the term Dymaxion, a combination of dynamic, maximum and tension.
Globalization, now a popular concept, was an idea he championed, along
with the development of wind, solar and wave power. In turn, his name
graced a major scientific discovery: when a new type of carbon molecule
was discovered in 1985 that resembles his geodesic dome, they called it a
buckyball.

Toward the end of his life, ever eager to share his vision, he recorded a
42-hour program on video, "Everything I Know," a precise catalogue
organizing his thoughts. It typified his earnestness and his unshakable
confidence that mankind could accomplish any practical task, assuming
people had the patience to sit through the exercise.

Some of his disciples have continued to work on his ideas, and in Europe
he still is a celebrity, at least in some circles. There is a huge
exhibition on him, "Your Private Sky: R. Buckminster Fuller and the Art of
Design Science," at the Zurich Museum of Design. Ms. Snyder said no show
of that breadth has ever been mounted by a museum in the United States.

His descendants are hoping that the transfer of his archives to Stanford,
where they will be more accessible, will allow a new generation to
discover Fuller. His grandson said he believed Fuller represented a
positive, optimistic side of the 60's that has been obscured by current
cultural debates.

"The utopianism he stood for was emblematic of the 60's," Mr. Snyder said.
"I think Bucky, in the best sense, really believed in progress. In that
sense, the whole 60's thing hasn't gone away. It's sort of gone
underground, and some of these ideas may be coming to the surface again."

--
        http://www.box2321.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:02:02 GMT
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         felix szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Putting Bubbles in a Box is a 3-D Function Interpolation of Dr.
              Thomas Hales...
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Re: Discover Magazine's article on Sonoluminescence (i.e., the core of the
Bubble Theories) of designation of August 1999.

    Dear Sirs:

    Prologue: it have the best at hand when everybody know what the
curiosity, or lack of..., are really forward motions. The article on Bubbles
saw captions and very solid photographs. When the photography have had the
caveat and inclusion as the participee of the phenomenon, of the visual
effect, of the carbon make-up of the spectra. That makes the ranges of
light, that which the participator sees.

    Hencforth, the question of Michigan University's Professor Thomas Hale:
"How do we make a bubble fit into the shape of a box?"

    Does he know that when he answers that he would of bridged the
functionality of Calculus and Geodesic Mathematical Systems? The subject of
the skew lines effectiveness had the phenomenon of many wonders of the
world, why casual curiosity becomes something of "sheer genious", and the
subject which gains are of very large institutional grants! Henceforth:

   1. It's part of the missing tie-in for the mapping of the Close-order
Universe; without which there is literally no colonization of the Moon.
Because it only looked very close-by. The Moon had had inaccessibility.

   2. That finishes the skew of element, molecule, and compound. Why
compound was so necessary for seeing element (e.g., especially that part of
radiation aggregation, without allegory). Where molecule (e.g., such as
Benzene aggregates) become skew, not just from a electrolosis point-of-view.
Without vaguary, about skew.

   3. Where Compound can find a revolving loop, back to Heisenberg's Form of
Expanded Numbers, finally. By way of the modified (i.e., from the bubble
extrapolations) Hubble Phenomenon in smaller spaces, being the hypothesis of
numbers, anyway. So on...so forth. The 3-D is the 4-D bubble by bubble, much
easier to handle. Something any high schooler can recreate, anywhere on the
planet.

Compound stretches happen only in Carbon Lattice, because what is a bubble
but a Geodesic Lattice of the formation, therein. It has many attaching
characteristics that can be assembled and dis-assembled, nicely, without
severity, or constant reinvention, such as...

    What has...come maybe, by way of...abstractions, un-questioningly.


    Enclosure: NA
    Epilogue: NA

Yours Truly:
Flexsz@Hotmail.com

PS--...will bring it up to associates for Grants...at BFI@aol.com...later.


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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<html><body bgcolor='#ffffff'>
<table border="0" width="100%" height="300" background="cid:part_00$236fadab$7d376baa@hotmail.com">
<tr>
<td valign="top" align="left"><font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#000000"><div name='messagebody'>Re: Discover Magazine's article on Sonoluminescence (i.e., the core of the Bubble Theories) of designation of August 1999.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Dear Sirs:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prologue: it have the best at hand when everybody know what the curiosity, or lack of..., are really forward motions. The article on Bubbles saw captions and very solid photographs. When the photography have had the caveat and inclusion as the participee of the phenomenon, of the visual effect, of the carbon make-up of the spectra. That makes the ranges of light, that which the participator sees.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Hencforth, the question of Michigan University's Professor Thomas Hale: &quot;How do we make a bubble fit into the shape of a box?&quot;
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Does he know that when he answers that he would of bridged the functionality of Calculus and Geodesic Mathematical Systems? The subject of the skew lines effectiveness had the phenomenon of many wonders of the world, why casual curiosity becomes something of &quot;sheer genious&quot;, and the subject which gains are of very large institutional grants! Henceforth:
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 1. It's part of the missing tie-in for the mapping of the Close-order Universe; without which there is literally no colonization of the Moon. Because it only looked very close-by. The Moon had had inaccessibility.
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 2. That finishes the skew of element, molecule, and compound. Why compound was so necessary for seeing element (e.g., especially that part of radiation aggregation, without allegory). Where molecule (e.g., such as Benzene aggregates) become skew, not just from a electrolosis point-of-view. Without vaguary, about skew.
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 3. Where Compound can find a revolving loop, back to Heisenberg's Form of Expanded Numbers, finally. By way of the modified (i.e., from the bubble extrapolations) Hubble Phenomenon in smaller spaces, being the hypothesis of numbers, anyway. So on...so forth. The 3-D is the 4-D bubble by bubble, much easier to handle. Something any high schooler can recreate, anywhere on the planet.
<br>
<br>Compound stretches happen only in Carbon Lattice, because what is a bubble but a Geodesic Lattice of the formation, therein. It has many attaching characteristics that can be assembled and dis-assembled, nicely, without severity, or constant reinvention, such as...
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; What has...come maybe, by way of...abstractions, un-questioningly.
<br>
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Enclosure: NA
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Epilogue: NA
<br>
<br>Yours Truly:
<br>Flexsz@Hotmail.com
<br>
<br>PS--...will bring it up to associates for Grants...at BFI@aol.com...later.
<br></div></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><hr>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href=http://www.msn.com>www.msn.com</a><br></body></html>

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Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:02:08 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         felix szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Putting Bubbles in a Box is a 3-D Function Interpolation of Dr.
              Thomas Hales...
Comments: cc: WEBMASTE@ROBOTICS.USC.EDU
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Re: Discover Magazine's article on Sonoluminescence (i.e., the core of the
Bubble Theories) of designation of August 1999.

    Dear Sirs:

    Prologue: it have the best at hand when everybody know what the
curiosity, or lack of..., are really forward motions. The article on Bubbles
saw captions and very solid photographs. When the photography have had the
caveat and inclusion as the participee of the phenomenon, of the visual
effect, of the carbon make-up of the spectra. That makes the ranges of
light, that which the participator sees.

    Hencforth, the question of Michigan University's Professor Thomas Hale:
"How do we make a bubble fit into the shape of a box?"

    Does he know that when he answers that he would of bridged the
functionality of Calculus and Geodesic Mathematical Systems? The subject of
the skew lines effectiveness had the phenomenon of many wonders of the
world, why casual curiosity becomes something of "sheer genious", and the
subject which gains are of very large institutional grants! Henceforth:

   1. It's part of the missing tie-in for the mapping of the Close-order
Universe; without which there is literally no colonization of the Moon.
Because it only looked very close-by. The Moon had had inaccessibility.

   2. That finishes the skew of element, molecule, and compound. Why
compound was so necessary for seeing element (e.g., especially that part of
radiation aggregation, without allegory). Where molecule (e.g., such as
Benzene aggregates) become skew, not just from a electrolosis point-of-view.
Without vaguary, about skew.

   3. Where Compound can find a revolving loop, back to Heisenberg's Form of
Expanded Numbers, finally. By way of the modified (i.e., from the bubble
extrapolations) Hubble Phenomenon in smaller spaces, being the hypothesis of
numbers, anyway. So on...so forth. The 3-D is the 4-D bubble by bubble, much
easier to handle. Something any high schooler can recreate, anywhere on the
planet.

Compound stretches happen only in Carbon Lattice, because what is a bubble
but a Geodesic Lattice of the formation, therein. It has many attaching
characteristics that can be assembled and dis-assembled, nicely, without
severity, or constant reinvention, such as...

    What has...come maybe, by way of...abstractions, un-questioningly.


    Enclosure: NA
    Epilogue: NA

Yours Truly:
Flexsz@Hotmail.com

PS--...will bring it up to associates for Grants...at BFI@aol.com...later.


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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<html><body bgcolor='#ffffff'>
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<tr>
<td valign="top" align="left"><font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#000000"><div name='messagebody'>Re: Discover Magazine's article on Sonoluminescence (i.e., the core of the Bubble Theories) of designation of August 1999.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Dear Sirs:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prologue: it have the best at hand when everybody know what the curiosity, or lack of..., are really forward motions. The article on Bubbles saw captions and very solid photographs. When the photography have had the caveat and inclusion as the participee of the phenomenon, of the visual effect, of the carbon make-up of the spectra. That makes the ranges of light, that which the participator sees.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Hencforth, the question of Michigan University's Professor Thomas Hale: &quot;How do we make a bubble fit into the shape of a box?&quot;
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Does he know that when he answers that he would of bridged the functionality of Calculus and Geodesic Mathematical Systems? The subject of the skew lines effectiveness had the phenomenon of many wonders of the world, why casual curiosity becomes something of &quot;sheer genious&quot;, and the subject which gains are of very large institutional grants! Henceforth:
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 1. It's part of the missing tie-in for the mapping of the Close-order Universe; without which there is literally no colonization of the Moon. Because it only looked very close-by. The Moon had had inaccessibility.
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 2. That finishes the skew of element, molecule, and compound. Why compound was so necessary for seeing element (e.g., especially that part of radiation aggregation, without allegory). Where molecule (e.g., such as Benzene aggregates) become skew, not just from a electrolosis point-of-view. Without vaguary, about skew.
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 3. Where Compound can find a revolving loop, back to Heisenberg's Form of Expanded Numbers, finally. By way of the modified (i.e., from the bubble extrapolations) Hubble Phenomenon in smaller spaces, being the hypothesis of numbers, anyway. So on...so forth. The 3-D is the 4-D bubble by bubble, much easier to handle. Something any high schooler can recreate, anywhere on the planet.
<br>
<br>Compound stretches happen only in Carbon Lattice, because what is a bubble but a Geodesic Lattice of the formation, therein. It has many attaching characteristics that can be assembled and dis-assembled, nicely, without severity, or constant reinvention, such as...
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; What has...come maybe, by way of...abstractions, un-questioningly.
<br>
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Enclosure: NA
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Epilogue: NA
<br>
<br>Yours Truly:
<br>Flexsz@Hotmail.com
<br>
<br>PS--...will bring it up to associates for Grants...at BFI@aol.com...later.
<br></div></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><hr>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href=http://www.msn.com>www.msn.com</a><br></body></html>

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Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:02:10 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         felix szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Putting Bubbles in a Box is a 3-D Function Interpolation of Dr.
              Thomas Hales...
Comments: cc: WEBMASTE@ROBOTICS.USC.EDU
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Re: Discover Magazine's article on Sonoluminescence (i.e., the core of the
Bubble Theories) of designation of August 1999.

    Dear Sirs:

    Prologue: it have the best at hand when everybody know what the
curiosity, or lack of..., are really forward motions. The article on Bubbles
saw captions and very solid photographs. When the photography have had the
caveat and inclusion as the participee of the phenomenon, of the visual
effect, of the carbon make-up of the spectra. That makes the ranges of
light, that which the participator sees.

    Hencforth, the question of Michigan University's Professor Thomas Hale:
"How do we make a bubble fit into the shape of a box?"

    Does he know that when he answers that he would of bridged the
functionality of Calculus and Geodesic Mathematical Systems? The subject of
the skew lines effectiveness had the phenomenon of many wonders of the
world, why casual curiosity becomes something of "sheer genious", and the
subject which gains are of very large institutional grants! Henceforth:

   1. It's part of the missing tie-in for the mapping of the Close-order
Universe; without which there is literally no colonization of the Moon.
Because it only looked very close-by. The Moon had had inaccessibility.

   2. That finishes the skew of element, molecule, and compound. Why
compound was so necessary for seeing element (e.g., especially that part of
radiation aggregation, without allegory). Where molecule (e.g., such as
Benzene aggregates) become skew, not just from a electrolosis point-of-view.
Without vaguary, about skew.

   3. Where Compound can find a revolving loop, back to Heisenberg's Form of
Expanded Numbers, finally. By way of the modified (i.e., from the bubble
extrapolations) Hubble Phenomenon in smaller spaces, being the hypothesis of
numbers, anyway. So on...so forth. The 3-D is the 4-D bubble by bubble, much
easier to handle. Something any high schooler can recreate, anywhere on the
planet.

Compound stretches happen only in Carbon Lattice, because what is a bubble
but a Geodesic Lattice of the formation, therein. It has many attaching
characteristics that can be assembled and dis-assembled, nicely, without
severity, or constant reinvention, such as...

    What has...come maybe, by way of...abstractions, un-questioningly.


    Enclosure: NA
    Epilogue: NA

Yours Truly:
Flexsz@Hotmail.com

PS--...will bring it up to associates for Grants...at BFI@aol.com...later.


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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<html><body bgcolor='#ffffff'>
<table border="0" width="100%" height="300" background="cid:part_00$249dec48$44f531e9@hotmail.com">
<tr>
<td valign="top" align="left"><font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#000000"><div name='messagebody'>Re: Discover Magazine's article on Sonoluminescence (i.e., the core of the Bubble Theories) of designation of August 1999.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Dear Sirs:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prologue: it have the best at hand when everybody know what the curiosity, or lack of..., are really forward motions. The article on Bubbles saw captions and very solid photographs. When the photography have had the caveat and inclusion as the participee of the phenomenon, of the visual effect, of the carbon make-up of the spectra. That makes the ranges of light, that which the participator sees.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Hencforth, the question of Michigan University's Professor Thomas Hale: &quot;How do we make a bubble fit into the shape of a box?&quot;
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Does he know that when he answers that he would of bridged the functionality of Calculus and Geodesic Mathematical Systems? The subject of the skew lines effectiveness had the phenomenon of many wonders of the world, why casual curiosity becomes something of &quot;sheer genious&quot;, and the subject which gains are of very large institutional grants! Henceforth:
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 1. It's part of the missing tie-in for the mapping of the Close-order Universe; without which there is literally no colonization of the Moon. Because it only looked very close-by. The Moon had had inaccessibility.
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 2. That finishes the skew of element, molecule, and compound. Why compound was so necessary for seeing element (e.g., especially that part of radiation aggregation, without allegory). Where molecule (e.g., such as Benzene aggregates) become skew, not just from a electrolosis point-of-view. Without vaguary, about skew.
<br>
<br>&nbsp; 3. Where Compound can find a revolving loop, back to Heisenberg's Form of Expanded Numbers, finally. By way of the modified (i.e., from the bubble extrapolations) Hubble Phenomenon in smaller spaces, being the hypothesis of numbers, anyway. So on...so forth. The 3-D is the 4-D bubble by bubble, much easier to handle. Something any high schooler can recreate, anywhere on the planet.
<br>
<br>Compound stretches happen only in Carbon Lattice, because what is a bubble but a Geodesic Lattice of the formation, therein. It has many attaching characteristics that can be assembled and dis-assembled, nicely, without severity, or constant reinvention, such as...
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; What has...come maybe, by way of...abstractions, un-questioningly.
<br>
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Enclosure: NA
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Epilogue: NA
<br>
<br>Yours Truly:
<br>Flexsz@Hotmail.com
<br>
<br>PS--...will bring it up to associates for Grants...at BFI@aol.com...later.
<br></div></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><hr>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href=http://www.msn.com>www.msn.com</a><br></body></html>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:27:03 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [synergetics-l] NY Times article -- Fuller Archive going to

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      17-JUL-1999 17:27
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 this reportage is typical of the "AB" syndrome --
 After Guinea Pig B, as in starting at zero!...  if it weren't so dumb,
 it'd be horrifying.  that is,

  But when Ronald Reagan became President, the country took a sharpturn to
  the right and the reputation of Fuller, who had became identified with
 the
  counterculture of the 1960's, suffered.

 is utter pablum, considering the administrations
 that preceded this "hard turn".  you'd think that
 folks with a need for long-range detail'd be interested
 in what went before them, but most of you seem happy
 to take Bucky's "apolitical" sophistry to new levels
 of high-rise kiddingry (you're just kidding yourself,
 I hope .-)

 --Candidate in Tow!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

 PS: oh, it's from the NYTimes; no wonder.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:01:07 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      POPULATION
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Today, Sunday, July 18, 1999, there are now six billion (6,000,000,000)
people on this planet.  See:

http://www.mercurycenter.com/premium/nation/docs/y6b17.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:34:03 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      FULLER ARCHIVES
Comments: To: Allegra Fuller Snyder <afsnyder@aol.com>
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July 18, 1999

Dear Allegra,

Yesterday (7-18-99) the Geodesic "list" (newsletter) had a copy of the =
New York Times article about the sale of the Buckminster Fuller =
Institute (BFI) Archives to Stanford University in Palo Alto, =
California, USA.  I think you have made an excellent and wise decision.  =
I am truly impressed that of all the Universities in the world Stanford =
(that bastion of conservative business interests) was the one that =
wanted Bucky's Archives! =20

I have a few questions which I hope you will be kind enough to answer =
through the Geodesic list:

1. Will the BFI continue to exist, and if so, what will be its function? =
 Will it have an office somewhere?

2. Most of the material at BFI's website is not available anywhere else. =
 Will the BFI website continue to exist, and if so, who will administer =
it?  Will its address (URL) stay the same?

3. Will the sale of out-of-print Bucky books continue?  I think this is =
a vital service of BFI.

4. I think that the continued and expanded presence of Bucky-related =
material in the Internet is essential.  Will Stanford be making at least =
some of the material in the Archives available online to the general =
public?

5. Will there eventually be a grand opening of the Buckminster Fuller =
Archives, and if so, how could one make arrangements to attend?

Again, I congratulate you and your family on your well thought out =
decision.

Sincerely,

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>July 18, 1999</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Dear Allegra,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Yesterday (7-18-99) the Geodesic "list" =
(newsletter)=20
had a copy of the New York Times article about the sale of the =
Buckminster=20
Fuller Institute (BFI) Archives to Stanford University&nbsp;in Palo =
Alto,=20
California, USA.&nbsp; I think you have made an excellent&nbsp;and wise=20
decision.&nbsp; I am truly impressed that of all the Universities in the =
world=20
Stanford (that bastion of conservative business interests) was the one =
that=20
wanted Bucky's Archives!&nbsp; </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>I have a few questions which I hope you will =
be kind=20
enough to answer through the Geodesic list:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000 size=3D4><STRONG>1. Will the BFI continue to =
exist, and=20
if so, what will be its function?&nbsp; Will it have an office=20
somewhere?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000 size=3D4><STRONG>2. Most of the material at =
BFI's website=20
is not available anywhere else.&nbsp; Will the BFI website continue to =
exist,=20
and if so, who will administer it?&nbsp; Will its address (URL) stay the =

same?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000 size=3D4><STRONG>3. Will the sale of =
out-of-print Bucky=20
books continue?&nbsp; I think this is a vital service of=20
BFI.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000 size=3D4><STRONG>4. I think that the =
continued and=20
expanded presence of Bucky-related material in the Internet is =
essential.&nbsp;=20
Will Stanford be making at least some of the material in the Archives =
available=20
online to the general public?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000 size=3D4><STRONG>5. Will there eventually be =
a grand=20
opening of the Buckminster Fuller Archives, and if so, how could one =
make=20
arrangements to attend?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Again, I congratulate you and your family on =
your well=20
thought out decision.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Sincerely,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BED13B.589FDCE0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:36:44 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         David Anderson <monkey@ONE.NET>
Subject:      my latest paper - a new geodesic form

"Flat-edged Projected Geodesic Patches" at
http://w3.one.net/~monkey/geodesics/flatpatch

A new kind of geodesic structure, the use of a geodesic patch with a
blending function and projection parameter as total enclosing structure.

- Dave Anderson  http://w3.one.net/~monkey
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:18:47 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [synergetics-l] NY Times article -- Fuller Archive going to
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Your right! I only look on the sarengety of life, a water hole
a kill now and then and lay in the sun. Who knows- ?
The shadow knows, I hope that John Jr. or jamie does not
take up flying.  I once skied in Switzerland with a guy for one run that
sold insurance for small planes, he stated he would never get on one.
Dare to be naive but not in a small plane.
Frank Loyd Wright is much a do about nothing compared to RBF.
They say on PBS their is no more interesting person than FLW.
Shows you how bad a good education can be for PBS to say that
about him and Charlie Rose as well, they all missed RBF, it was to
advanced for them.  Anyway, your right hutch, again.
Ed Scholssberg will be a great asset to the Kennedy Family now
for he will be able to hold with his Fuller training the future of the
Kennedy family for the future.  They have no idea how lucky they
were for John and Jacky's daughter to find him.  He was the
best teacher of Fuller that I have seen, he makes Jay and some others
not including Medard look like they are new bees.  IT is to bad that
John Jr. died, for Ed could have helped him when he became president to
the Fuller force and changed the world and saved all the children of the
future
of mankind. Now maybe his wife will run and Ed can help her do it.
Good Luck to them all, they have given me a lot of hope for my time that
I am alive, I hope the Kennedy's understand that a little person like me
from West Frankfort Illinois son of a printer, in a little coal mining town
has and has had great joy from their lives for the hope of all the world in
the dark ages we live in and die in now. VIETNAM would have been over with
if bob had not been killed, and if john had not been killed everyone would
have health insurance and even the poor and outcast would be happy.
They were killed by as bucky stated a gold rush and to float the dollar.
What ever the Fuller family does, I salute it for I have faith in their
integrity.  What little my tap of energy has to do with it.;
OUT! Stanford is where Brendon O'Reagan worked who ran bucky's
office in 1971 and 2 for the move to Philly. He once told me he went
back to Ireland and got sick and ended out in the same bed his mother
died in, many years before. He died about 15 years ago and he may
have something to do with the move at any rate.  OUT!

Brian Hutchings wrote:

> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      17-JUL-1999 17:27
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  this reportage is typical of the "AB" syndrome --
>  After Guinea Pig B, as in starting at zero!...  if it weren't so dumb,
>  it'd be horrifying.  that is,
>
>   But when Ronald Reagan became President, the country took a sharpturn to
>   the right and the reputation of Fuller, who had became identified with
>  the
>   counterculture of the 1960's, suffered.
>
>  is utter pablum, considering the administrations
>  that preceded this "hard turn".  you'd think that
>  folks with a need for long-range detail'd be interested
>  in what went before them, but most of you seem happy
>  to take Bucky's "apolitical" sophistry to new levels
>  of high-rise kiddingry (you're just kidding yourself,
>  I hope .-)
>
>  --Candidate in Tow!
>  http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
>
>  PS: oh, it's from the NYTimes; no wonder.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:16:33 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "P. O. Box 2321" <box2321@BOX2321.COM>
Subject:      Re: FULLER ARCHIVES
Comments: To: Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <001001bed176$2557a6c0$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Joe S Moore wrote:

> 3. Will the sale of out-of-print Bucky books continue?  I think this
> is a vital service of BFI.

I was fortunate to be offered by Allegra the chance to sell out of print
Fuller titles.  As of last week, I sold my book business to go into full
time social work.  I, for one, won't be selling Fuller titles any more.

- Trevor (formerly of J. Whirler Books).

--
        http://www.box2321.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:31:06 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      BFI WEBSITE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I just discovered that the BFI website has been somewhat revised and
expanded.  Take a look:

http://www.bfi.org/

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:56:00 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: my latest paper - a new geodesic form
In-Reply-To:  <001301bed197$ee44b660$e66432d1@computer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:36:44 -0400, you wrote:

>"Flat-edged Projected Geodesic Patches" at
>http://w3.one.net/~monkey/geodesics/flatpatch
>
>A new kind of geodesic structure, the use of a geodesic patch with a
>blending function and projection parameter as total enclosing structure.
>
>- Dave Anderson  http://w3.one.net/~monkey

Interesting stuff Dave.

Been catching up on some of your research.  I like the way you
chronicle your explorations on the web, and develop your=20
presentation skills in tandem with all the rest.

I'm of course curious about how a latitude/longitude database=20
of GIS/GPS data might be run through a patching function to=20
give us a flattened version.  Of course here the challenge was
not to minimize waste in the materials sense so much as to=20
find a pattern of cuts that left the landmasses intact.

Bob Gray has done an algorithm, with the focus on keeping
the exterior arcs of the 20 geodesic triangles (of the=20
icosahedron) constant in length throughout the transformation
(to a flat surface).

Actually, I guess your covering patches solve a different=20
problem, that of providing a skin for a geodesic sphere,=20
whereas the Fuller Projection aims to project interior=20
data points to 20 flat triangles without opening up any=20
sinuses (those come later, simply because we want to=20
press the icosahedron flat). =20

The projection technique Bob uses is not strictly gnomonic=20
i.e. is not equivalent to simply projecting an icosahedron=20
to a sphere by pushing out vertices.

Bob draws perpendiculars from a mapped point to each of
the 3 arcs of the surrounding icosa triangle.  Those 3=20
points of intersection (with the arcs) get transferred to
the flattened triangle (edge length =3D arc length) and=20
the same 3 perpendiculars get drawn. =20


      a     /\    b
       '  /    \ '
        /        \
      /      *     \
    /                \
  /__________'_________\
             d

But on a flattened face, they no longer cross at a point,=20
but define a small triangle. =20


      a     /\    b
       '  /    \ '
        /   __   \
      /     \/     \
    /                \
  /__________'_________\
             d

The final step in the transformation is therefore to compute=20
the centers of these small triangles as the points on the=20
flat triangles corresponding to the points on the spherical=20
triangles.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:12:06 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
In-Reply-To:  <001801bed19f$864ab200$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:31:06 -0700, you wrote:

>I just discovered that the BFI website has been somewhat revised and
>expanded.  Take a look:
>
>http://www.bfi.org/
>
>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


Refreshing to get something new over there.  Glad to see a new
front end.

Microsoft Explorer (5.0) shows the new home page easily, but at least
on my machine, the Netscape Communicator view (4.6) isn't so clear: =20
something funny going on at the bottom of the page.  Anyone else=20
getting "visual bleed" near the map?  Something to do with layers
perhaps.

Also, http://www.bfi.org/option.htm has some links which go to=20
Lauren's subdirectory -- not implemented (dead end).

Just some webmastery feedback.  I'm glad to see some activity at=20
the BFI site.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:55:05 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      my latest paper - a new geodesic form
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Message text written by "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's
works"
>A new kind of geodesic structure, the use of a geodesic patch with a
blending function and projection parameter as total enclosing structure.<=


        I found your link very interesting.  How was it that you were abl=
e
to put a manipulative drawing on a WEB site?   Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:31:22 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         David Anderson <monkey@ONE.NET>
Subject:      Re: my latest paper - a new geodesic form
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The manipulative drawings are in VRML - virtual reality markup language...
I've written java that produces VRML from my geodesic projection code. The
link simply points to the VRML model in a wrl file.

- Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Conroy <Robert_Conroy@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Date: Monday, July 19, 1999 8:05 AM
Subject: my latest paper - a new geodesic form


Message text written by "List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's
works"
>A new kind of geodesic structure, the use of a geodesic patch with a
blending function and projection parameter as total enclosing structure.<

        I found your link very interesting.  How was it that you were able
to put a manipulative drawing on a WEB site?   Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:48:42 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      the dukes of hazzard

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      19-JUL-1999 19:48
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops; ignore the final announcement, about yesterday.

 To: geodesic@listerv.acsu.buffalo.edu
  Subject: the Best of Broadway (Birth of a Nation?)


  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      17-JUL-1999 18:32
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

    <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      17-JUL-1999 16:53
                     r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

     the staement about the "US" attribution of warcrimes is wrong:
     the 3-judge panel was initiated by a Canadian judge (and
     one member was USian, the other of the Commonwealth),
     with timing that violated international law.  not "world" law.
        those who insist that "nationalism" is the cause of all wars,
     appraently ignore the role of "world empires",
     or wanabi ones, throughout history, as per the Holy Roman Empire
     and its Diacletian edicts, or the Holy Tibetan (Mongol) Empire,
     or Hitler's association with the Wagner Kreis and the Cliveden Set,
     or Sir George's New World Order for the recent vintage (and
     clearly not too American .-)
        I am going to a meeting where World Federalists wil
     be pitching their "no war" line, with literature,
     tomorrow.  for your reference,
     see "How Bertrand Russell Became an Evil Man",
     which includes the origins of this particular (named) group,
     in *Fidelio* magazine.

     --Candidate in Tow!
     http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
   i 0

   OK, you apolitical local-yokels,
   >this is taking place, tomorrow (Sunday) at 2pm,
   >at the MGM Community Room (across the street
   >from Helen's Bikes, on Broadway).
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:57:14 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      the dukes of hazzard

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      19-JUL-1999 19:57
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 36:898) GOVERNMENT FOREIGN POLICY
 Brian Hutchings                                         19-JUL-1999 19:41

   SUBJECT: Re: [Q-P] Kosov@
   MESSAGE   from =r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.U 16-JUL-19  0:28
   <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      15-JUL-1999 16:06
                    r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

    the whole idea of NATO's "out of area" deployment is dystressing,
    given the insistence of the neolib/neocon doctrines of the IMF,
    the only beneficiaries of this policing.
       Thatcher's and Bush's war on Iraq was the fist such abuse, because
    "geopolitics" required the taking-down of the leading Arab country
    (not to mention the Bushwhacker calumny of BNL etc.)  see:
    http://www.tarpley.net/bush24.htm

    --Candidate in Tow!
    http://www.terpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:18:45 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The bfi did not kick you off for being honest like you did me on your
site, As far as I am concerned you lied like hell as well to get me off
your
site as if I was trying to sell a bus company to your list, that was for
rose and
no one else to try and make money for his site.  You are such a con
man for your own power hungry ego with the synergetics first on the
web site.  Now people are going to think you actually know synergetics.
What a joke.

The longer the radii, the less heat.
The shorter the radii the more heat.
Do you know what I am talking about.
You have never heard of this, Since I have
educated you with me on your list you have renamed it
which I inspired to point out the it is exploration not the law,
and you were always talking struck until I came along and
now you see since I have shown you that precession is the
key to synergetics. You block head.
You see the Fuller family does not need your stupid
ideas to run their lives for them,
they have found a much better place than the HF library inwhich
you would have been working for them at that time you are
just mad that you did not get the job to run the archive and
then you could be the real darth vader and run Fuller's
future and be king of Princeton or Prince of egoville.
You should apologize to the Fuller family for all your insults
and please stay on your own turf and spread your ideas or allow
me and hutch back on your site.  You just can't stand the truth
on your site you have to control it all or nothing.
What a cube you are!
You attack Michael Riversong for his religion
I offer some one help to finance his site
Hutch has more to say than you do in one sentence.
You stated only 2 persons were banned from your site
last and now you say there is 3 who is the other Jamie.
You only want your robot friends on it.  I suppose
no one will want to go on it some day after they
see how big a farce you are.
You do not see that it takes gestation rates to allow events
to presses, you want it your spoiled rotten way.
Karma will pay you for your power hungry ego.
OUT!
please do not reply you make me sick and many others that
have seen your stupid little ego games. Big Kirby prince of ego.
I warn all that come to these fuller sites stay away from Kirby Urner
he is a con man in the Fuller school, he is to be ignored for all he does
is take and not give. Do not trust him and what he says. He has quite
a following already sucked into his game, they know not what they do.
You see above he is saying he likes the bfi and what they do.
He has stated that he hates Jamie and Allegra, as well as insulted them
for not doing what he wanted to do all along and he caused a lot
of political trouble for the family just for his own selfish Ken Star self.

He is the Ken Star of the bfi and now as they do their designs he has to
eat crow for his ideas of what to do are not as good as the ones
that the family is doing.  The archive will be fine without you Kirby
and now you can FQOFF. Go make your models and use the archive
of books that you base all your stupid ideas about synergetics about that
belong to the bfi for now and insult them as you use their resources.
You just can't stand that you are not part of the family I would suppose so

you have to attack them to make you seem bigger than them.
What a jerk. Beware all those who are new Kirby is not to be trusted.
He will not say he is sorry to Fuller's daughter for insulting her and her
family.
You should be ashamed of yourself but you are to self indulgent to do that.




Kirby Urner wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:31:06 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >I just discovered that the BFI website has been somewhat revised and
> >expanded.  Take a look:
> >
> >http://www.bfi.org/
> >
> >Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> >Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> Refreshing to get something new over there.  Glad to see a new
> front end.
>
> Microsoft Explorer (5.0) shows the new home page easily, but at least
> on my machine, the Netscape Communicator view (4.6) isn't so clear:
> something funny going on at the bottom of the page.  Anyone else
> getting "visual bleed" near the map?  Something to do with layers
> perhaps.
>
> Also, http://www.bfi.org/option.htm has some links which go to
> Lauren's subdirectory -- not implemented (dead end).
>
> Just some webmastery feedback.  I'm glad to see some activity at
> the BFI site.
>
> Kirby

  Who cares! If you let me back on your site you will learn so
much more about synergetics. If you do not I will start my own
synergetics list. It was so cheap of you to claim I was spamming
what a joke just to be a power ego freak scammer. You are
the Fuller Hitler of your list. Please ignore this idiot everyone.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:56:53 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      who loves you, Baby?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      19-JUL-1999 20:56
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 13:496) AIR AND SPACE
 Brian Hutchings                                         19-JUL-1999 20:50

   SUBJECT: [Q-P] The Spy Who Is Shagging You with a Spoon
   MESSAGE   from =r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.U 16-JUL-19 14:22
   <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      16-JUL-1999 12:20
                    r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

    uh-oh, we're ploughing the hoary field of conspiracy,
    theories thereof, so let me repeat Lyn's dictum:
    No (commercial) conspiracy, no (branded chain) cup o'coffee!...
    that is, the "mainstream" is that *petitio principi* (singular?)
    of the late American political scientist (or historian),
    Richard Hofstedter, that what conspiracies existed, if any,
    were soon uncovered, then properly buried (I'm not even para-
    phrasing, since it's been a while since I looked
    at his book in "pre-Civil War American History" class) -- and that
    mere mention of the word is grounds for committing the patient;
    he must be sick!
       per the mainstream US media, I'm sure that
    you've heard of Fox TV, B-Sky-B and the rest of Murdoch's empire
    in print & boradcast media, but do you know of the Hollinger Corp.
    (ne Argus Corp., ne the British N.American Special Operations Exec.,
    pre-WW2) ??...  well, sort-of gave it awy; eh?

    thus quoth:
     argument with Fred about whether the Times and the Manchester Guardian
    are
     reliable. For me they are; for him, clearly not. As to
 "manufacture(d)
     consent," I've never seen a convincing argument that it exists, though
    I've
     seen a lot of conspiracy-oriented conjecture. I stand by my statement
    that


    I've got 2 points of reference on that, for the next posting or so,
    but let me first give a somewhat-related exemplar
    from Science, re the hugely-influential late-night program
    of Art Bell ("Coast to Coast, AM"), which I just communicated
    to one of Art's rare "legitimate" scientists (insofar as
    he is just a theorist, and goes overboard with theoretical physics,
    at times innumerable), last night.  note that this is before
    I have investigated Art's parent company,
    the Texas lawfirm of Hicks, Muse (and the article in Monday's WSJ !-)
    [the following refers to Michio Kaku's pet bug-a-boo,
    the Cassini Mission and its nasty 72# payload --
    which he shares with Helen "The sky is glowing!" Caldicott --
    which I have dyscussed with him, before, til he stopped replying.]

    thus saith:
     MESSAGE   from Brian Hutchings                    16-JUL-19  1:56

     dear Doctor;
        what about Islamic terrorists?
        OK, they may not be "up" there, yet, but
     I do recall (from Art's show) some of Hoagland's aesthetical
     correlations with Egyptian mythology -- in the Apollo Program!...
     some of the followers of Nostradamus could be as fanatical,
     as these members of a latter-day Cult of Isis/Osiris/Horus/etc.
     (yes, they do exist, recalling such names as Huxley, Crowley,
     Blavatsky & so on, notably associated with Gr.Britain and
     its "biblical archaeology"; they do not care, much, for human life.)
        I say "aesthetic", because Hoagland has gone so-far overboard
     with his "sacred/hyperdimensional geometry",
     when he tries to read the patterns in Cydonia, and those
     of Apollo may largely as spurious (or he's correct,
     about some "occult" infiltration -- if he ever put it,
     in that way.  as for Mars,
     he might have better luck, looking for intelligent life
     in Sedona, AZ .-)
        I don't think you'd be so sanguine about being on Art's show,
     if you'd heard the number of utter cranks that he has on;
     several are wanabi Nostradamuses in their own vocation.
     many others are ludicrous, mindshagging spooks, bent
     upon spreading hysteria of any kind that you can think of.
     (and there's a lot of overlap;
     who knows, how seriously all of these folks take themselves !-)
        all of this endemic occultism & silly science -- not referring
     to you, here, of course -- is promoted by Art
     with the most credulous deniability, in that
     he'll occaisionally make a dysclaimer about whether he
     or anyone may or may not believe in its veracity (or bunk), and
     has been known to get a clue, from time to time, and
     ask a good, hard question of his guest.  (note:
     I'm not saying that the whole audience is as gullable
     as the self-selected call-ins, mostly, but y'never know.)
        there are actually uranium sands, mostly mined-out,
     from Baja to Tennesse, which have been hypothesized as coming
     from an unusual explosion (not eruption) of a series
     of volcanos -- that made the Gulf of Baja.  it may have killed
     quite a few dinosaurs, although not the Main Event (but
     I don't believe the overhyped Alverez Hypothesis;
     Officer's book was given awfully short shift, seeing as
     there are 2 types of craters).
        so, I still find it hard to believe,
     that 72# of plutonium is going to be *so* bad.  radiation,
     itself, is fundamentally overblown by the EPA et al,
     using the linear no-threshold asumptiopn (LNT).  after all,
     we do have plenty of data, unfortunately, from over 3 generations
     of the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well
     as the massive Chinese Longitudinal Study and, yes,
     Chernobyl (10ya).
        what is the aerial half-life of plutonium at 5 microns
     (as you just suggested), given a steady breeze, and,
     once down, how quickly'd it be concentrated
     into the streambeds, on its way to the deep ocean?
        on the other hand,
     there is so little left of the Space Program,
     since Kennedy was murdered, what's the point of these questions?...
     that is the extreme sophistry of the Bell show,
     that we have long-since lost the ability to prognosticate
     upon the putative habits of space-faring species,
     since we have virtually given-up on the possibility
     for ourselves.  I don't care,
     how many flakey abductees (and interviewers thereof) that
     Art has on his program, they'll never get be able
     to get out of their damn *bedclothes*, let-alone
     to be probed on a high-floating space-thing;
     these may be the true vicitims of the take-down
     of the Space Program; eh?
        I once actually got through to Art's show, and
     I asked him,
     If you were the head of Druid clan,
     how'd you go about cultivating a "cropcircle" or faerycircle?...
     he cut me off in a huff, and I've never gotten on,
     to be able to answer the question (rhetorical .-)

     about time-travel, is their *any* experimental physics
     that has actually given any credence
     to this stuff?...  it's a trick question, I guess,
     because of the little problem of "efficient causality" and so on.
     I realize, some may have a (theoretical) trapdoor
     into an other universe, to get around this problem --
     the *plural* definition of the singular word, or
     a unitary one, for what ever should comprise all of those!
     (some of Art's most pathetic guests rattle-on
     about this stuff, with no math involved (as a physico-
     mental implausibility .-)
        waht I'm trying to say, is that
     your rather greater scientific competence seems
     to lend credence to a lot of these fruitloops,
     where none is deserved.  if you don't believe me,
     just listen to the show for a few nights in a row.  or,
     as a particularly egrigious example,
     get one of the programs interviewing (the late) Lt.Col.Corso
     -- he is one of the reasons that I wanted to get on the show,
     to expose him for such a spook (before he was dead;
     if one believes in God, one hopes that he repented, although
     it'd have nice if it were on the air .-)

     --Sincerely,bri

     --Candidate in Tow!
     http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

    Message 812...REPLY, PASS, DELETE, or ? for options:  (pass) 813

    (813)  ------------------------------------------------
     SUBJECT: change order
     MESSAGE   from Brian Hutchings                    16-JUL-19  2:55

     yes-- thanks for dyssing those boys on their computerized
     simulacra --and I'm not speaking of Littleton, neccesarily!

     --
     "YOU don't have to be a rocket-scientist." --my college career
  councillor
     Brian Hutchings, Santa Monica College


     PS: also appreciate your skepticism on chaos;
     why don't they ever notice "sensitive dependence
     upon *intermediate* conditions", and be done
     with the nonsense of the "butterfly effect" (which, anyway,
     seems always to have been confused with the shape
     of Lorentz's attractor) ??

     PSS: about "global" warming, could you be wrong?...
     for instance, how can you tell if seemingly greater calving
     off of Antarctica --if not transient-- is not an indicator
     of greater precipitation?...  I mean,
     if you look at the much-ballyhooed chunks
     that recently broke from Ross Ice Shelf,
     they are not that large, in comparison with the shole Shelf; eh?
     (put it in this way:
     when was the last time that such a large (or larger) berg
     broke from it?)
        this is an arch-example of rotten computerized simulacra;
     there is no bridge between the weather forecasting GCMs,
     and the ones that are used for this stuff,
     except for a lot of ad-hoc code re-use!  anyway,
     the data is contrary.

 - - - - -
 13:497) AIR AND SPACE
 Brian Hutchings                                         19-JUL-1999 20:52

   SUBJECT: Re: change order
   MESSAGE   from =MK@aol.com                     16-JUL-19 14:22
   We can't prove global warming is taking place, but ALL indicators point
  to it.
   Proof would require another decade or so, and meanwhile we are wasting
   precious time. By then, many of its effects will be irreversible.
   (Remember, our Bread Basket in the mid west might turn into a Dust Bowl,
   like it did in the 1930s, but to a greater extent. This could have
   catastrophic implications for the U.S.)
   --MK
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:15:10 GMT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         felix szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Skew means 4-D Abstraction's resultant,
              from 3-D Box...(it's very lethal chem)
Comments: cc: WEBMASTE@ROBOTICS.USC.EDU
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Re: As addendum...in the state of Sonoluminescence, the rest of the five
senses in aggregation can be discerned from phenomenon. Hence, the notion of
skew irritated most people because its meaning unclear from "participee"
word stated way in the beginning...about Discover article.

    It's a better word because it's about Oxygen Three and radiation.
Photography is a form of plasma because its a carbon chain of sorts...in a
plastic. It caught what the "human eye" could not of seen. It just means
looking for the oddities of the phenomenon...from where it absorbs...from
where it emits, a true-distortion.

Dear Wordly:

    Prologue: writer can tell that Allegra Fuller Snyder (Executive of
BFI@AOL.COM) from her responses, or "non contentions" that she does not like
people making fun of her. And the subject of picky-unish English. That which
is in regard to 4-D resultant words of vaguary or from the 3-D politics,
that the most of the world tend revolving itself into.

    Enclosure: it is a sincere attempt to bring light into the already dark
abyss of misunderstanding where 3-D Calculus and 4-D Geodesics can adjoin
for the future arena of writing habits.

    1. The .gov websites need more filling of the esteemed, such as
yourselves, with the new ideas. Where our own in-house bastions need new
insight, consequently.

    2. The immediate hostility is toward the Telescope Projects, not of
coincidental sabotage, but maybe tired resolve? It's not about labels and
blame. WRITER STILL BELIEVES, IT NOT THE FAULT OF THE TEAM THE MARS ROBOTS
STOPPED WORKING. All these are the expressed opinion of the Writer and his
alone.

    Wherein, attempts at false-labels. Why the place where the
aggregation-of-the-sensory or Sonoluminescence make radiation in small
Avogradro Numbers realizable. Why the attempt at explaining Oxygen Three,
the way it works with pivots. The skew is multiple-error in limits. The
corrections make the new Functions of Mathematics, the new 4-D Geodesic
Functions of Bubbles!

Yours Truly:
Flexsz@hotmail.com


    Epilogue: note--the bullet size and grain is an exactitude expression of
mass, weight, and density of the resultant of the phenomenon of the
doppler's feedback for the phospher glow.

    The person that owns the Patents and Copyrights gets mad at sister for
her ridicule (she's in a high place at Sony). The server senses the fights
of the in-house bastions. (They hint at my multiple use of handles, of their
recommend...or something.) It can easily be cleared up by getting some new
government grants! All of those with college degrees, there's another career
for yourselves.

    Now quit picking on this poor, old, tired executive...and her nice
family. She just wants everybody to have nice time.



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_54b340f6_2b3a3c24$602fb1ad
Content-type: text/html

<html><body bgcolor='#ffffff'>
<table border="0" width="100%" height="300" bgcolor="#64709E" background="cid:part_00$2b3a3c24$602fb1ad@hotmail.com">
<tr>
<td valign="top" align="left"><font face="Courier, sans serif" color="#ffffff"><div name='messagebody'>Re: As addendum...in the state of Sonoluminescence, the rest of the five senses in aggregation can be discerned from phenomenon. Hence, the notion of skew irritated most people because its meaning unclear from &quot;participee&quot; word stated way in the beginning...about Discover article.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; It's a better word because it's about Oxygen Three and radiation. Photography is a form of plasma because its a carbon chain of sorts...in a plastic. It caught what the &quot;human eye&quot; could not of seen. It just means looking for the oddities of the phenomenon...from where it absorbs...from where it emits, a true-distortion.
<br>
<br>Dear Wordly:
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prologue: writer can tell that Allegra Fuller Snyder (Executive of BFI@AOL.COM) from her responses, or &quot;non contentions&quot; that she does not like people making fun of her. And the subject of picky-unish English. That which is in regard to 4-D resultant words of vaguary or from the 3-D politics, that the most of the world tend revolving itself into.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Enclosure: it is a sincere attempt to bring light into the already dark abyss of misunderstanding where 3-D Calculus and 4-D Geodesics can adjoin for the future arena of writing habits.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. The .gov websites need more filling of the esteemed, such as yourselves, with the new ideas. Where our own in-house bastions need new insight, consequently.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. The immediate hostility is toward the Telescope Projects, not of coincidental sabotage, but maybe tired resolve? It's not about labels and blame. WRITER STILL BELIEVES, IT NOT THE FAULT OF THE TEAM THE MARS ROBOTS STOPPED WORKING. All these are the expressed opinion of the Writer and his alone.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Wherein, attempts at false-labels. Why the place where the aggregation-of-the-sensory or Sonoluminescence make radiation in small Avogradro Numbers realizable. Why the attempt at explaining Oxygen Three, the way it works with pivots. The skew is multiple-error in limits. The corrections make the new Functions of Mathematics, the new 4-D Geodesic Functions of Bubbles!
<br>
<br>Yours Truly:
<br>Flexsz@hotmail.com
<br>
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Epilogue: note--the bullet size and grain is an exactitude expression of mass, weight, and density of the resultant of the phenomenon of the doppler's feedback for the phospher glow.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; The person that owns the Patents and Copyrights gets mad at sister for her ridicule (she's in a high place at Sony). The server senses the fights of the in-house bastions. (They hint at my multiple use of handles, of their recommend...or something.) It can easily be cleared up by getting some new government grants! All of those with college degrees, there's another career for yourselves.
<br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Now quit picking on this poor, old, tired executive...and her nice family. She just wants everybody to have nice time.
<br>
<br></div></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><hr>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href=http://www.msn.com>www.msn.com</a><br></body></html>

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------=_NextPart_000_45eaefca_2b3a3c24$602fb1ad--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:55:54 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
Comments: cc: "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael,

Did you sell your dome in Carbondale?
If so, when?
Who did you sell it to?
Do you know what they plan to do with it?

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


Michael S. Mitchell <> wrote in message news:
<37937A15.5548A5A2@earthlink.net>...

(BIG snip)

>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:05:46 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      BUCKMINSTER FULLER
Comments: To: bfeder@sjmercury.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Ms Feder,

Thank you for your article in today's San Jose Mercury News about the sale
of the Buckminster Fuller Archives.

(http://www.mercurycenter.com/premium/local/docs/archive21a.htm)

Additional information about R Buckminster Fuller is available at my website
below.

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:03:38 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      FW: FULLER ARCHIVES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: AFSNYDER@aol.com [mailto:AFSNYDER@aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 1:11 PM
> To: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Subject: Re: FULLER ARCHIVES
>
> Dear friend,
> Thank you for writing. I will be away from my e-mail from June 25
> to August
> 19. Someone is checking my mail on a weekly basis, and, should there be
> something urgent, a copy will be printed and forwarded to me at
> :Bear Island,
> Sunset, Maine 04683. You may also write to me there directly,
> Allegra (Fuller
> Snyder)
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:59:09 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Not yet but I am in the design of making it a park with someone
as bucky states when it is designed I will state it in fact at large.
It is time for the keep of bucky and anne to be launched.
the dome in Carbondale, bucky ballville, or Fullerenedale is
going into the same time warp with the archive and all at once
it is transformed into the year 2000 design that is doing the most
with the least.  I am in the process of it being done now, I will
let you know when it is finished.

Edward Scholossberg my condolences for your bad news.
Michael S. Mitchell


Joe S Moore wrote:

> Michael,
>
> Did you sell your dome in Carbondale?
> If so, when?
> Who did you sell it to?
> Do you know what they plan to do with it?
>
> Joe S Moore
> mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> Michael S. Mitchell <> wrote in message news:
> <37937A15.5548A5A2@earthlink.net>...
>
> (BIG snip)
>
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:15:37 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES
Comments: To: makeller@sulmail.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BED3B5.CC193D20"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BED3B5.CC193D20
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mr Michael A Keller
Stanford University Librarian

Dear Sir,

Could you please email me when the Buckminster Fuller Archives are =
available for viewing?  I would like to forward your notice to the =
Geodesic list & the bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup which has about =
10,000 readers.  Both the list & the newsgroup are concerned with =
anything relevant to the work of R Buckminster Fuller.

Thank you in advance,

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BED3B5.CC193D20
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Mr Michael A Keller</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Stanford University Librarian</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dear Sir,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Could you please email me when the Buckminster =
Fuller Archives=20
are available for viewing?&nbsp; I would like to forward your notice to =
the=20
Geodesic list &amp; the bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup which has about =
10,000=20
readers.&nbsp; Both the list &amp; the newsgroup are concerned with =
anything=20
relevant to the work of R Buckminster Fuller.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you in advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT size=3D2>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BED3B5.CC193D20--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:18:42 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES
Comments: To: makeller@sulmail.stanford.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BED3B6.3A11B460"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Joe S Moore=20
To: Cc: _Geodesic=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 8:15 PM
Subject: BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES


Mr Michael A Keller
Stanford University Librarian

Dear Sir,

Could you please email me when the Buckminster Fuller Archives are =
available for viewing?  I would like to forward your notice to the =
Geodesic list & the bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup which has about =
10,000 readers.  Both the list & the newsgroup are concerned with =
anything relevant to the work of R Buckminster Fuller.

Thank you in advance,

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BED3B6.3A11B460
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com" title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com>Joe S =
Moore</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <B>Cc:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU"=20
title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>_Geodesic</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 21, 1999 8:15 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Mr Michael A Keller</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Stanford University Librarian</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dear Sir,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Could you please email me when the Buckminster =
Fuller Archives=20
are available for viewing?&nbsp; I would like to forward your notice to =
the=20
Geodesic list &amp; the bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup which has about =
10,000=20
readers.&nbsp; Both the list &amp; the newsgroup are concerned with =
anything=20
relevant to the work of R Buckminster Fuller.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you in advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT size=3D2>Joe S Moore: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A><BR>Buckminste=
r Fuller=20
Virtual Institute: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore=
/</A><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BED3B6.3A11B460--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:56:06 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
Comments: To: Joe S Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Joe S Moore wrote:

> Michael,
>
> Did you sell your dome in Carbondale?
> If so, when?
> Who did you sell it to?
> Do you know what they plan to do with it?
>
> Joe S Moore
> mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> Michael S. Mitchell <> wrote in message news:
> <37937A15.5548A5A2@earthlink.net>...
>
> (BIG snip)
>
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:33:39 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael A. Keller" <makeller@SULMAIL.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fw: BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES
Comments: To: Joe S Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com>
In-Reply-To:  <002101bed3f0$e82c9440$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Joe,

        Yes, of course.  Happy to communicate and to
encourage use of the archive.

Mike


On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:18:42 -0700 Joe S Moore
<joemoore@cruzio.com> wrote:

>
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe S Moore
> To: Cc: _Geodesic Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 8:15 PM
> Subject: BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES
>
>
> Mr Michael A Keller
> Stanford University Librarian
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> Could you please email me when the Buckminster Fuller
> Archives are available for viewing?  I would like to
> forward your notice to the Geodesic list & the
> bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup which has about 10,000
> readers.  Both the list & the newsgroup are concerned with
> anything relevant to the work of R Buckminster Fuller.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute:
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----------------------
Michael A. Keller
  University Librarian;
  Director of Academic Information Resources;
  Publisher, HighWire Press
Stanford University
245 Green Library
Stanford, CA 94305-6004
U.S.A.

voice:  1-650-723-5553
fax:    1-650-725-4902
eFax:   1-520-244-4070
e-mail: makeller@sulmail.stanford.edu
url:    highwire.stanford.edu/~mkeller/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:02:44 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Fw: BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

John kennedy Jr.

I would just like to point out that the sister of JKJ is married to
Bucky's
greatest student.  He was my professor in the Design Department in
1967 in Carbondale Illinois.  Edwin Schlossberg started along
with Bucky the world game in Carbondale as Medard Gable took it
over due to Bucky's great trust in Medard.

Edwin is a great person, very deeply committed to humanity and
the white fire of bucky is in his soul.  I am so glad that at this time
Edwin is there to help the Kennedy family for he is a great anchor
that is over looked, but because he was bucky's best student
he is in the place to hold the integrity of humanity that is needed
after this event.  I am pointing this out so that those many whom
are involved with the Fuller force information evolution revolution
to make the world work will know that the integrity of Bucky and
Anne Fuller is deeply involved with humanity and that it should
be held high and brought to light for the year 2000 to turn
humanity to love and not war. Bucky is the only chance we have
for information sharing to make this happen. The 50
year investment he has made cannot be bestowed by anyone else.
Thank you for your time.
Michael S. Mitchell
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:42:08 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Fw: BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      22-JUL-1999 15:42
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 a-ha -- that's why the USPO hasn't issued the stamp;
 they're waiting to commemorate his death, along
 *with* the Second Coming of our Savior,
 Who art in Pure Principle!

 thus quoth:
  be held high and brought to light for the year 2000 to turn
  humanity to love and not war. Bucky is the only chance we have

 a-men, a-women, a=[your chice, herein] !!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:46:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Munch of MIDGETS

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      22-JUL-1999 15:46
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow; I fiund some great quotes from Euler that'll tweak you, as
 well as from *Mysterium Cosmographicum*,
 which go some way toward indicating the background
 from whichh Buckafka Fullofit sprang (both "good" and
 not-so-good .-)

 --Candidate in Tow!\
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb/htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:44:32 +0000
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Munch of MIDGETS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In exploring the internet with R. Buckminster Fuller in mind.
I find very little except for Joe Moore and the Geo list that
bucky would be proud of except for bfi, Critical Path, and world game.
The rest of these upstarts are much to do about nothing but ego education
light years behind the dymaxion state.

We do not have time to wonder around.  The information revolution
is Fuller and the internet is made by God to get his information out.
It is not a religion, it is more important, if his information does not
get out, there will be no religion for all civilization is on the brink of
high tech death tools that are available to the frustrated masses
that are have not's watching the haves decline their cries for help.
WE must try harder than just talk about domes on the dome list.
WE must try harder than just talk about how bad the bfi is run
from a new comers view.
WE must try harder to be comprehensive about listening and learning.
IF you tell the truth you get kicked off these myopic lists.
The laser beam brain corridors that are put on by the egos of the list
dominators are to over specialized.  All specie that have gone extinct
was because of over specialization.  Everyone out of the educational system

is over specialized.  Read for instance Education Automation I think it is
on the BFI site.  I suggested that the place you put your dome is the most
important design for building a dome.  That I thought southern California
is
in my mind the best place, and that if you put it on a boat that you
could move it around and not have to buy land.  I was insulted and
told that I was ranting and raving on the dome home list and I resigned.
I was told that I did not use capital letters and commas.
I unsubscribed. It took me 17 attempts to do so.
As I was trying to do so the moderator would state that he was
watching and enjoying my feeble effort to do so, and he thought
it was proof that I did not use capitals etc.  He would take the time
to do this but not tell me how to do so.  I then threatened to sue
him if he did not, for if he had the time to tell me how amused he was
to watch he could help me.  He then stated that I was a trouble maker
and had been kicked off the syn list.  Of course this was because The
moderator over there is as stupid as this one is.  SO if I get kicked off
this
one I will start my own. Other wise I will when I feel like it, say what
i think about bucky and what I think he would say.  I worked as friends
with him for 16 years.

I just want to say this before going to bed. Thank you.
Michael S. Mitchell
http://home.earthlink.net/~syntrivity/index.html

I am new at all this internet stuff and I am learning.
I am learning that if you tell the truth you get kicked off
most these lists.  To bad they are not simple minded enough
to be comprehensive like bucky. hopefully they will learn,.
Of course Hutchings is considered an out cast as I am.
SO hutch, it looks like we are against the world or the only
ones for the world to really change.  Grunch of Giants
 People's brains just can't stretch that much.
SOme times.
the orbit of the sun precesses one more time
by our windows and flowers die and spring into life.
We watch and wait for our time.
We need to spring into life and life is Fuller force information
to make the world work in the public eye.
I was so excited today I went into a thrift shop and said
do you have any Fuller books and the old lady that was there
for the church that day to help stated yesterday someone already
was so happy to find three of them. This is the sign that the march
is on.  Please open your minds of how important he is to get into
the public eye to make the future of the children of the earth, your
children to be happy when they grow to have a world worth
living in.  Think about it and try and make it grow with designs
like talk to News people, pbs, film, your friends. It is the only
way we have a chance to make the world worth living in for the
future. WE are 6 billion people now. DO something.


Brian Hutchings wrote:

> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      22-JUL-1999 15:46
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  wow; I fiund some great quotes from Euler that'll tweak you, as
>  well as from *Mysterium Cosmographicum*,
>  which go some way toward indicating the background
>  from whichh Buckafka Fullofit sprang (both "good" and
>  not-so-good .-)
>
>  --Candidate in Tow!\
>  http://www.tarpley.net/bushb/htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:28:44 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dome home questions
Comments: To: thecottager@my-deja.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Cottager,

You may want to take a look at the "Domes" section of my web site:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Links/D.htm

(BTW, AI's web address should be:
http://www.aidomes.com)

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

The Cottager <thecottager@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:<7n7fsq$v69$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...

>  My husband and I are looking into building a Dome home.  We are currently
> considering a kit from American Ingenuity.  They are located in Florida.
> Here's the homepage if you want to take a look.....
> <www.iadomes.com>  I think that's right.  Anyway, what
> have you folks heard about them?
> Thanks in advance.
> --
> The Cottager
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:22:18 -0700
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      change order

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      23-JUL-1999 11:22
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

  To: geodesic@listserv.acsu.buffalo.com
  Subject: change order


  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      23-JUL-1999  0:06
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   anyone wishing to go to the next Townmeeting in LA is welcome.
   William Wertz of EIR will be speaking,
   "How to Save a Dying USA".  we'll be covering the latest moves
   by the financier oligarchy to bail-out of the market,
   such as the recent move to collapse the price of gold and
   the market-cornering maneuvers of Eddy George et al, and
   to leave "commoners" holding their worthless mutual funds
   (as per historically.  as Japanese FM Sakakibara referred
   to the US, "bubble.com" !-)

   this Saturday at 1:30 PM at the Culver Raddison;
   call Ted of Melinda at 323/259-1868 (fax, -1862).

   --Candidate in Tow!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

   don't let Peristalsis Occur:
   flush the twin 4-letter turds, Bush and Gore,
   down the watercloset of history!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:00:20 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Mr. Moore,

    I have now sent the closing statement to the new owner
to sell the dome for an undisclosed amount of money.
When I have the funds in the bank next week it will be sold
to the only person in the universe that can really do miracles with it.
    I have taken a small loss in profit but it is for the best reason.
To make sure the dome in Carbondale gets its worth in the long run.
All the bad talking by Jay Baldwin and Kirby Urner will all be turned
around as if they never stated it was a pile of wood, etc.
I forgive you for you know not what you do.
You are both to arrogant to say you are sorry so live with
the fact that when it is a Memorial Park you were against it
having any worth.
Now the donation to Stanford has happened as well.
Some of these know it all's, will have to pick on someone else
than the family now.  Kirby may even study synergetics for a
change. His best case is that jamie once stated he hated his
grand pa.  Who hasn't said that once in their life.
Big case Kirb. Now talk synergetics and stop the politics
to make you the big boss of the net. I am the bucky Fuller
garbage man and when you guys get to be to much garbage
I will take it out for bucky. Kirby your out of here!
Don't anyone trust Kirby till he states he is sorry to
Allegra and the bfi for his Ken Star attitude towards them.
Kirby all your sand castles are crumbling.
Try a curriculum in ego escape prince of Princeton.
I am not sorry to attack these idiots for what they are.
If people do not like the critical whip of truth then
just do not read my attempts to live it.
To say what you feel deep inside gets a lot more
done than beating around the bush and letting
some people misinform others.
That is what this tool is for.
I am kind, but we do not have much time on this
planet to make manners more important than the quality  of
lives of humans on earth.
The only thing that will stop war is information that
makes the truth happen in design.  The truth is
always happiness, what ever it is. If I am wrong
I would be happy to know it first.
Let me know in private messages please so no one
else will know, though. I would like to hide that
I am a sorry soul that has no where to hide and very
rude, and do not deserve your reading anything that I
have to say. Please ignore me.
Joe. I will let you know when it is all done.
If you still want to talk to the likes of me.
Michael S. Mitchell
It will be hard for Stanford to beat your site.
I hope they give you a lot of money to help.
You really are the soul of design for the info.
Congratulations on being the best of your kind..
You have no ego in your work. Pure design.
Thank you for your site it is very inspiring.
I wish you could do the archive.

Joe S Moore wrote:

> Michael,
>
> Did you sell your dome in Carbondale?
> If so, when?
> Who did you sell it to?
> Do you know what they plan to do with it?
>
> Joe S Moore
> mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
> http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> Michael S. Mitchell <> wrote in message news:
> <37937A15.5548A5A2@earthlink.net>...
>
> (BIG snip)
>
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:48:37 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
In-Reply-To:  <37937A15.5548A5A2@earthlink.net>
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>You stated only 2 persons were banned from your site
>last and now you say there is 3 who is the other Jamie.

Michael --

This is a lie.  Lauren, Jaime's close associate and bookkeeper
for the estate was a subscriber to Synergetics-L for a long
time.  She and/or Jaime were never banned and either/both=20
would be welcome to subscribe at any point.

My relationship with Jaime has always been cordial. I have
relayed some of the communications that have swirled around
the BFI, having to do with my role in that little soap
opera, but if you actually read the text, instead of just=20
spouting off, you'd see that I'm mostly just chronicling=20
what went on, not pursuing some vengeful vendetta about=20
anything, the way you describe. I have no ill will towards
Bucky's family.

At one point on this list I did express some anger about
Jaime's approach, saying I "wouldn't give him the time of=20
day" (go fetch) plus I've shared my misgivings about how=20
the website lay fallow for over a year (and I was very up=20
front about all that, with principals, never sneaking=20
around behind the scenes or fanning the gossip/rumor=20
mill irresponsibly).=20

I had the right to be upset in this case because I was=20
BFI's first webmaster (working entirely pro bono), had a lot=20
to do with getting BFI on the web in the first place, with=20
tech support from Kiyoshi Kuromiya and Rich Bauer.  Allegra=20
and I were getting along well enough at this point and=20
exchanged lots of emails.  An entire issue of TrimTab was=20
mostly devoted to the website, and later on BFI made its=20
website the basis of its new fundraising appeal. =20

My being angry about how the website "froze" after I stopped=20
being webmaster was because I *support* the work and agenda=20
which Bucky started and considered the BFI website *too=20
critical* to be left in a decayed, moribund state in the=20
public domain.

But that's all history by now, water under the bridge. =20
You're the one who keeps digging all this stuff up and=20
posting your garbled misinterpretations about it over and=20
over.  You've made it your personal business to attack me
because I was as direct with you as with anyone. Apparently
you're not used to that. Too bad.  Your response to=20
criticism is to go off half-cocked and then to bear a
grudge because you've been made to look the fool.  Have
you no sense of humor?  Why do you take yourself so=20
seriously in the first place?  You just some guy, like
I am, trying to make the best of it.

You were not party to any of these interactions you now=20
write about with such careless vigor, with so much innuendo. =20
You have a very foggy understanding of any of it.  I suggest=20
you stick to areas where you have some demonstrated competence=20
and stop making a fool of yourself in public by spouting a=20
lot of allegations which have no basis in fact.

What I write in my conclusory paragraphs at=20
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bfihist.html , where a lot
of this personal history is on the web, is that I think the
archives would do better in the care of some an institution
with more training and background re archives, e.g. a=20
university library.  This is now what has come to pass, so
I have some sense of completion and satisfaction around this
recent turn of events.  I'm glad to learn that Allegra and
Jaime have been negotiating this transfer for the last=20
year and a half, as per the Mercury News and New York Times
articles I've read.  This is to their credit, and is in=20
the direction I was hoping they would go.

So as I see it, this is a chapter of history coming to an
end.  We can but it all behind us and face the future.
So how about you stop beating the dead horse and move
on yourself.  If you want to pick a fight with me, make it
be about something that's (a) interesting to readers and
(b) within your competence to write about.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:58:27 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
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              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
In-Reply-To:  <37937A15.5548A5A2@earthlink.net>
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>You attack Michael Riversong for his religion

I do have misgivings about the Church of Scientology and its impact
within the culture, yes, and I was up front with Mr. Riversong about
this.  This is part of the same freedom of expression which protects
his right to practice.  I have the right to be critical.  And if=20
he thinks the Religious Society of Friends is bunk (of which Society
I'm a practicing member), he has every right to share his reservations.

Riversong and I had a relationship, on this list and via private
email, completely independently of you.  He and I were in touch
long before you came blundering onto the scene, throwing up your
poisonous vitriol in every direction.  Perhaps you were off line
when he signed off, but if you check the archives you'll see he=20
went off gracefully, after a positive exchange with me.  He=20
graciously thanked me, among others, in his concluding post.

I think Riversong has a lot more style and intelligence than you
do.  Too bad he left and not you.

>I offer some one help to finance his site

You always throw your weight around as some kind of great benefactor,
like you have all this money or some special talent in the financial
area.  Have you sent your checks in to BFI and WGI yet?  This is
what you said you would do when you sold the bus company.  You said
*nothing* about trying to help Mr. Rose with his projects (we've=20
already been through this, with lots of direct quotes from the
public domain Syn-L archives, but I see you're still going back
to your story that you were just trying to be a great benefactor
for Mr. Rose -- so have you sent him a check yet?  All talk and
no walk?).

I remain skeptical on regarding your financial savvy of course,=20
as you seem to be quite the spamster when it comes to money matters.
Isn't it that you have a rich brother behind the scenes?  Or so
you've boasted.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:04:57 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
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From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
In-Reply-To:  <37988384.5C9E019C@earthlink.net>
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>change. His best case is that jamie once stated he hated his
>grand pa.  Who hasn't said that once in their life.

Another lie.  Check the archives, oh sloppy scholar.  I was
talking about a letter (which I'll never show you) that=20
Bucky dictated, and which has historical relevance.  Jaime
features in that letter, but the word "hate" never does.

I have no doubt that Bucky and Jaime loved one another.
That's not something I've ever questioned, either privately
or in public.

You have the potential to do a lot of damage by repeating
these half-baked allegations, these untruths.  People=20
need to beware that anything they say within your hearing
can and will be used against them in a sloppy, low-ethics,
low-integrity manner.

I'm tired of your parasitical politics and sheer jealousy
and outrage in the face of people who dare to expose you
for what your are.

I suggest you keep clinging to that scrawled letter from=20
Bucky ("To Whom It May Concern"), as he was one of the few=20
able to see to your core, where there's integrity ("that=20
of God in everyone").  You make it very difficult for the=20
rest of us, with less insight, to find anything but slime.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:09:13 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
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From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      The Project Renaissance Scenario
In-Reply-To:  <000001bed528$6eb95380$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
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            The Project Renaissance Scenario
                K. Urner, July 15, 1999

Some of you who follow the Project Renaissance thread know that=20
I'm forecasting/anticipating that design science will enter the=20
picture with a redefined interface between the public sector=20
and high tech R&D.  Typically, the military and partially over-=20
lapping space programs have provided testing grounds for what=20
later became (in many cases) commercializable "spin off" goods.

If we're to shift from killingry to livingry, as the central=20
focus of high tech R&D, this doesn't obviate or remove the need=20
for volunteer human guinea pigs i.e. willing recruits ready to=20
experiment with some of the new front lines procedures and=20
equipment.=20

The medical profession also needs to run its trials, and recent=20
USA TV segments have focused on civilians who enter these trials=20
in order to afford treatment of any kind, the health care picture=20
being a bleak and tragic one, given livingry still takes a back=20
seat to military-orwellian enterprises as chief "science=20
drivers" for our economy.  The USA cannot afford to look after
the health of its citizens because too busy planning megadeath
scenarios for the future -- triage dictates that the most=20
vulnerable be neglected ("survival of the fittest" dogma).

Again, the medical and military endeavours have historically=20
partially overlapped, with the USA civil war, for example,=20
providing a principal proving ground for then- emergent new=20
medical techniques and technologies.

The common thread here is a trial and error process of field=20
testing, combined with high tech R&D. =20

If humans are forced into high risk situations by military=20
emergencies, then we get a different culture than one wherein=20
humans choose risk as a volunteer vocation, although of course=20
the difference is not always clear-cut e.g. many enter the=20
military on a voluntary basis (not overlooking that many=20
"volunteers" feel few other options are available to them, i.e.=20
use the military service option to escape a "dead end" economic=20
scenario at home).

Recent TV segments around getting medical and other supplies to=20
the South Pole, where a scientist has been diagnosed with=20
breast cancer, have contained some of the visual elements of a=20
Project Renaissance scenario:  Bucky-style geodesic dome at the=20
South Pole, images of military-style equipment being used in a=20
somewhat risky, yet essentially life-saving (vs. destructive)=20
capacity.  Both the scientists at the pole, and the Air Force=20
crews working to transport and drop the supplies are cast as=20
willing volunteers engaged in an essentially life-supportive=20
activity.

What I'm looking forward to are more storyboards involving high=20
tech livingry, in particular the Fly's Eye Dome (FED).  FEDs=20
could be deployed as peacekeeping equipment under the=20
management of various entities (decals affixed), with trained=20
crews ready to operate them as part of some communications=20
infrastructure.  FEDs have wireless access to the internet and=20
provide webcam or other data feeds.  Internally, they contain=20
multiple screens in various "control panel" configurations, and=20
the netizens inside operate the controls to communicate with=20
peers, query on-line databases, monitor onboard fuel cells etc.

Ideally, some of the dynamically updated GIS/GPS data showing=20
both inside the FEDs, and on websites connected thereto, would=20
be mapped to Fuller Projections of the whole earth's surface. =20
Zoom ins to up-close views of a given terrain would be=20
supplemented with whatever color-keyed overlays of interest to=20
the netizen-monitors, e.g. peacekeepers might be tracking=20
weaponry stockpiles or the movement of these legacy inventories
to remote storage or decommissioning sites.

One cannot expect FEDs to deploy anywhere without media coverage=20
(secrecy is not very feasible, nor desirable in this case), so=20
the corporations behind them will want to piggy-back their=20
positive PR on their public debut.  This is actually the challenging=20
part, as Bucky has already put a lot of "English" (spin) on his=20
design science inventory assets -- you can't deploy a FED without=20
inheriting properties and methods from this pre-installed code=20
base (Bucky's "foundation classes").

=46ortunately (at least from my point of view), Bucky was a fairly
competent inventor and his biases were deliberately cosmopolitan. =20
His idea was to pre-emptively carve out a futuristic semantic=20
space, complete with realistic props (e.g. FEDs) and invest it
with enough pro-livingry integrity to achieve escape velocity=20
vis-a-vis the military orwellian undercurrents which might co-opt=20
design science for yet another round of neglectful R&D at the=20
expense of the majority of humans, of "benefit" only in the=20
short term sights of the most selfishly power-grabbing and=20
Malthusian-minded.

Scientific evidence suggests that human populations level off=20
as they become adequately provided for, and that explosive=20
growth characterizes traumatized or beleaguered populations=20
attempting to recover, heal from, counter high morbidity=20
situations.  As we spread a semantics more commensurate with=20
the "global university" meme, wherein families are ipso facto=20
enrolled and supported by infrastructure conducive to a "life=20
of the mind" (even if supplemented with physical labor), we=20
will see a corresponding drop in population growth and the=20
gradual emergence of new and more sustainable equilibria than=20
characterize our world today.

So, in big picture terms, the FEDs and related artifacts,=20
herald a positive future, but not one devoid of risks or=20
challenges.  Individuals will continue to have opportunities to=20
push themselves to new limits, and to experience failure. =20
There's no utopia on the horizon wherein people just sit on=20
their butts and admire their reflections -- or rather we'll=20
always have a segment which self-indulges in this way, while in=20
the meantime those interested in working on behalf of humanity=20
will have ample opportunity to do so, in many interesting and=20
engaging walks of life.

Kirby

Major reference:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:12:22 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Project Renaissance Scenario
Comments: To: Kirby Urner <urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU>
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Whereas the Fly's Eye dome was invented about 1970,
and whereas the lag time in the housing industry is about 50 years,
therefore it would seem that the Fly's Eye Scientific Domehome is not
scheduled to be commercially available until about 2020.

Joe S Moore
mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

Kirby Urner <urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU> wrote in message news:
<379e0126.48074934@alumni.princeton.edu>...
>             The Project Renaissance Scenario
>                 K. Urner, July 15, 1999
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:55:25 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The Project Renaissance Scenario
In-Reply-To:  <000001bed6c0$dc67af00$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
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On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:12:22 -0700, you wrote:

>Whereas the Fly's Eye dome was invented about 1970,
>and whereas the lag time in the housing industry is about 50 years,
>therefore it would seem that the Fly's Eye Scientific Domehome is not
>scheduled to be commercially available until about 2020.
>
>Joe S Moore

I prefer to see the FED as an electronic component in new
circuit designs for motherboard earth.  The lag time in the
electronics industry is shorter, and here we're just "moving
in" to our desk tops, taking up residence in cyberspace (an
interface to the real world, amplified with instrumentation).

=46EDs are overdue on television.  I'm not talking about coercing
people to give up their "Better Homes and Gardens" for the=20
high tech livingry with the Fuller School purveys.  They can
remain in their Tudor or Victorian style dreams-come-true for
as long as they like. =20

But some of us are tired of that particular fantasy-made-real,=20
have other stage props we'd like to see.  The goal is the=20
same: a sense of security and long term stability (equilibrium). =20

But when we survey the current housing inventory, our immediately=20
reflex is "too slow".  We want gizmos like FEDs on the scene to=20
reassure us that humans have a place in Universe over the long=20
haul.  This is simply an investment we need to make.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:03:19 -0400
Reply-To:     bobwb@juno.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
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From:         Robert Burkhardt <bobwb@CHANNEL1.COM>
Organization: Tensegrity Solutions
Subject:      Ephemeralization
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Ref:  http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/tower.html

With regard to Kenneth Snelson's criticism of Bucky's use of the word
ephemeral (the root for ephemeralization), how about using "ethereal"
instead (etherealization)?

Snelson thinks ephemeral misses the mark since it's a time-based concept
whereas Bucky seems to be referring to mass and bulk -- spatial
phenomena.

Bob Burkhardt
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Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:07:37 -0700
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From:         Bruce Ward <bward@METRO.NET>
Organization: chhhyehh...right...
Subject:      Re: Ephemeralization
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Though I greatly appreciate Snelson's work, I disagree on this point.
Ephemeralization is the right word.  Time IS involved.  We ephemeralize
our technology not only through learning how to accomplish the task at
hand with less mass, but with less energy and less time (fewer manhours)
as well.  Bucky was pretty careful about choosing his words.


Robert Burkhardt wrote:
>
> Ref:  http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/tower.html

      This URL didn't work for me.

> With regard to Kenneth Snelson's criticism of Bucky's use of the word
> ephemeral (the root for ephemeralization), how about using "ethereal"
> instead (etherealization)?
>
> Snelson thinks ephemeral misses the mark since it's a time-based concept
> whereas Bucky seems to be referring to mass and bulk -- spatial
> phenomena.

---------------------------------------------------
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they're not.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:35:05 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
Comments: To: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
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Kirby you crack your own nuts.
What I do with my money and what you do with yours is
not your concern.
I have donated 16 years before you were on the scene
to bucky and anne's ideas, I traveled around the world
with bucky and throughout the usa.
I made audio tapes of all his lectures before anyone
thought they were worth anything.
I have the most hours in the archive of audio tapes I
suppose.  You put out one internet site and you think
you are a bucky god.  Please mind your own funds and
give to the bfi yourself, I have donated 50 to 100K already
to the bfi in travel expenses and time recording around
the world so the youth of the future can hear him in
action.  I will try to get them on CD as soon as possible if
I can help.  This was my project from 1967 to audio tape
record as many live lectures thinking out loud that I could
and I paid my own way.  Bucky and I had a deal he would
let me go anywhere with him if I paid my own way and
sent his office a copy.  That I did.  He stated I had over 500
hours of time in this once.  I have not counted it for my copy
burnt in a fire.  The archive has the only copy now.
 You use the idea that I spam to kick me off your list
when it is because you just can't stand the truth being
stated about your vendetta with the bfi, and trying to
take over, BE the complete palomino of bucky's new comers
on the net to follow you down the hill.
    You have now changed the URL of the syn-l since
I pointed out that it was exploration of thought not a bible
you were worshiping. I have inspired this I am sure.
    Your lack of understanding that synergetics deals with one
volume and that the most fundamental fact of synergetics
is precession is your over specialized view of synergetics into
volume frequency modulation and modeling micro Struck minded
attempts to make a curriculum for those that never heard of it.
Not that struck is not valuable it is, but end all no way.
many people have stated how bored they are with all the modeling
and no real talk of the way the world works.
    This all falls short of bucky's view of the universe the way you
follow the book word for word.  I have had years of being on the
front row with him talking and thinking out loud, and hundreds of hours
of personal conversations with him.  I have many more written
documents with his support of me that you have never seen.
I am an average red neck that shows that an average anyone can
understand and move forward with this exploration, and that anyone
in the world can abide with the truth on this level of understanding
what is around us, on the nano and cosmic level of truth.
Your mind bending defense of small trails of why you are right about
what?  That you are a scholar of Fuller, who on the other hand hates
his family and what they stand for.  This all is very weird, that you must
erroneously, esoterically, eschew and anti-seed aniseed your way into the
Fuller force
with such Ken Star greed of being right for what?
Your above yourself in all this, the family is to classy to defend and I am
just
one person that points to others and states you should be seen as a very
articulate scamer of power and not to take you very seriously.
I was not referring to you barring Jamie from the syn -l you - stated right

before you kicked me off that only Hutch was kicked off, who is the
other exception.  You stated that Jamie, called you ( his Nickel ) "
pompous
arrogance that you are" as you state as if you are someone that he looks up
to.
Your name is not to be aloud in the family presents.  You are for what I
can say,
a self righteous narcissistic, ego maniac. You can redeem yourself but you
have not
the heart to be kind. you must be a bad father and never give in.
If you let me back on the syn list to talk geometry and say you are sorry
to
Allegra and the bfi for all your insults I will stop doing my duty to bucky
and anne
for you would not be a threat anymore to the future of the Fuller force.
Your ego and selfishness to not say you are sorry to the family for your
insults over
the years and seeing that your lack of remorse makes for a hallow space for
you
to spout that you are a Fuller advocate makes you down deep a fuller turn
coat and
self power hungry manipulator.  I am only retaliating your constant insults
to the family
as if you can tell everyone in the world what they should do with what is
theirs and
not yours as you tell me what to do with my resources.  It is not your
place to precess
with that inwhich does not precess around you. It is not yours to keep and
design.
You have a site that states you are on Fuller's side and then you use it
against
his very family.  I want to say to all those new to Fuller that you are
wrong to do this
and that you should be ignored for your est training ego, needs to have a
lot more
Princeton education to adopt that posture.
I think I have said enough for now.
:-(
I wish I had time to post all your insults from past
posts, maybe some day if you do not say your sorry I will
make one so that I do not have to defend myself and the
jury will be in on this by design, instant proof.
My one post that I had a bus company for sale was
to allow others to have resources to do Fuller designs
You take this as the one time post to kick me off for
trying to fund others. I had already a buyer then and still
do.  I was only trying to share, you used the wrong reason to
do what you wanted for your own selfish support.
Just as usual. Kirby, do  you have to be so specialized.
Synergetics is based on unity of experience, you
subtract and separate, attack, and make yourself boss.
Try love as a geometry, try saying you are sorry you might
be doing it wrong, or are you a perfect "Prince" that can tell
everyone what to do with what is not yours to do so -
You have fanned the flames to make fires in the rbfi office
and now you are the one being burnt for it.

Kirby Urner wrote:

> >You attack Michael Riversong for his religion
>
> I do have misgivings about the Church of Scientology and its impact
> within the culture, yes, and I was up front with Mr. Riversong about
> this.  This is part of the same freedom of expression which protects
> his right to practice.  I have the right to be critical.  And if
> he thinks the Religious Society of Friends is bunk (of which Society
> I'm a practicing member), he has every right to share his reservations.
>
> Riversong and I had a relationship, on this list and via private
> email, completely independently of you.  He and I were in touch
> long before you came blundering onto the scene, throwing up your
> poisonous vitriol in every direction.  Perhaps you were off line
> when he signed off, but if you check the archives you'll see he
> went off gracefully, after a positive exchange with me.  He
> graciously thanked me, among others, in his concluding post.
>
> I think Riversong has a lot more style and intelligence than you
> do.  Too bad he left and not you.
>
> >I offer some one help to finance his site
>
> You always throw your weight around as some kind of great benefactor,
> like you have all this money or some special talent in the financial
> area.  Have you sent your checks in to BFI and WGI yet?  This is
> what you said you would do when you sold the bus company.  You said
> *nothing* about trying to help Mr. Rose with his projects (we've
> already been through this, with lots of direct quotes from the
> public domain Syn-L archives, but I see you're still going back
> to your story that you were just trying to be a great benefactor
> for Mr. Rose -- so have you sent him a check yet?  All talk and
> no walk?).
>
> I remain skeptical on regarding your financial savvy of course,
> as you seem to be quite the spamster when it comes to money matters.
> Isn't it that you have a rich brother behind the scenes?  Or so
> you've boasted.
>
> Kirby
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Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:47:41 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Ephemeralization
Comments: To: bward@metro.net
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The truth does away with weight.
This is a sort of way I look at it.
It is such a lovely idea ephemeralization, a sort of do more
with less, time investment, articulation investment, resource
toxification, etc.  What a great word to work with.
I love it. I agree with you Bruce. It also has a wait and think
more attitude to it to become more comprehensive so as to
see the big picture and map the whole first.  To anticipate and
accelerate the future by seeing more with less specialization that
is already included anyway in the artifactation, or imagination modeling.
Snelson smellson!

Bruce Ward wrote:

> Though I greatly appreciate Snelson's work, I disagree on this point.
> Ephemeralization is the right word.  Time IS involved.  We ephemeralize
> our technology not only through learning how to accomplish the task at
> hand with less mass, but with less energy and less time (fewer manhours)
> as well.  Bucky was pretty careful about choosing his words.
>
> Robert Burkhardt wrote:
> >
> > Ref:  http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/tower.html
>
>       This URL didn't work for me.
>
> > With regard to Kenneth Snelson's criticism of Bucky's use of the word
> > ephemeral (the root for ephemeralization), how about using "ethereal"
> > instead (etherealization)?
> >
> > Snelson thinks ephemeral misses the mark since it's a time-based concept
> > whereas Bucky seems to be referring to mass and bulk -- spatial
> > phenomena.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> In theory, theory and practice are the same.
> In practice, they're not.
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Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:54:24 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE (stupid geometry tricks)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      26-JUL-1999 11:54
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Mitch, man, you do not seem to be quite capable
 of "talking geometry", although you may be able to walk the walk
 -- I'm not assuming, that, of course.  I have seen a few "cases" like
 yours,
 and I have a guess as to why you have this problem.
    just as I had not, it is very clear that
 you have no classical ed.in geometry, although
 Bucky probably did; most of his followers do not, although
 much of the modelling does substitute.  not completely, though,
 as Sythetic Geometry is the necesary "tabletop science"
 pf classical ed.  or, let me say it, thus:
 "unitivity" is a bogus shell, without it, as far as geometry goes.
    Stanford and Princeton may both be wicked institutions
 --well, maybe not the futurists thereat!-- who wish to "own" synergetics
 as a discipline, but that does not mean that
 you should go ballistical over Kirby's curricular efforts.
 shouldn't you criticize them, themself, as a "programme"
 vis-a-vu both synergetics and classical (synthetic) geometry?

 most of your ranting is strictly ad hominem, and quite ridiculous,
 and you appear to be more of *victim* of Buckyspeak,
 as much as its recorder.
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Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:16:36 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      ENERGY MINISTERS CONF
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The Western Hemispheric Energy Ministers Conference will be held July 28-30
in New Orleans.  Their web site is http://www.americasenergy.org/. GENI
(http://www.geni.org ) will be there promoting Bucky's Global Energy Grid.
Live Internet broadcast.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
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Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:35:17 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      eudcation trepidation

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      26-JUL-1999 14:35
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 As to the supposed cruciality of BFI's website, or Stanford's,
 nothing is so obvious.  For me, the central thing is
 to dump Bucky's avowed notion of "being an apoltical verb,"
 as both excrucaitingly solipsitic & permanently sophomoric
 (as well as tactically covering his butt from his fellow Brahmins .-)
 That is to say, it's not just a properly naieve "learned ignorance," but
 simply ignorant.  The fact that
 Bucky was not ensnared by the empirical breedish "junior colleges"
 of the Ivy League, is some thing to most thankful for,
 after 4 degenerations of Hahvahd, because
 he avoided the usual aristotleean mindshagging
 that it'd have entailed.  (Similarly, we offer praise,
 that Bill Clinton did not complete the Rhodes brainrinsing,
 and that he was not hazed by the Skull and Bones shop
 of oligarchical horrors.)  But, still,
 there were his hallowed Transcendantilist influences, although
 these are usually lauded along with "the Enlightenmnet,"
 for what's in a name?
    If only Mitch has the temerity to debate this notion,
 by going to the extreme of launching a Bucky Party, straight
 into the ground ... well, there seems to be enough room
 in his rectal dysplay unit for everyone, called Unitivity,
 with room left-over for a break of badminton.  He means well,
 but he is eaten alive by the Scylla of grammar and
 the Charybdis of the Wordproblemma, before
 he ever gets out of the Marina.
    So, in many respects, what Bucky has landed us is a sort
 of warmed-over New Geometry, a la Bourbaki but
 in the "other direction," along with a New History
 from his tabla rasa, the latter being all but useless
 in actually ascertaining the powers that think-they-are,
 in their Potemkin Media Village (and
 no help from MacLuhan, either, I'm afraid).  Legally,
 Sun does not rise on the British Empire, because "Blimey,
 we changed the name of it in the mid-70s!"  Technically it does not,
 per the linguistical spin given by Bucky.  Realistically, can you think
 of any other voting-block in the UN, larger than the 57 qua-nations
 of the "pugilist formerly known as the Princess" ??...  So,
 *that* is whence our slap-happy Transcenders hail -- Brittania!
    Geometrically, synergetics is hypereuclidean, since it never strays
 beyond any of the axioms that were compiled by Euclid, as self-evident.
 Epistemoligically, it scratches the surface of the oligarchical horde
 that he euphamizes, perhaps with a bow to the bastardized United Nations
 (whose "father," FDR, unfortunately died
 and could not oversee its creation, and the hoped-for smashing
 of the several empires, and the dysallowance of 2 of them
 to be on the Security Council, and so on).
    If you mean by "global universtiy" what was meant by HGWells,
 with his "World Encyclopedia", as actually begun
 by reviving the Brittanica,
 to be massively sold in the USA, door-to-door, along
 with the "100 Greatest Books" that were ripped
 rom their historical contexts, to become self-evident atoms
 in that programme of Chicago U., along with its little turds
 of fraudulent historicizing ... you'll hpeofully just forget it.
 Otherwise, we may have a long Roe to 'Ho,
 on the presumed-by-others problem of population growth and
 development, vis-a-vu the externalized environment.
    The oligarch seeks to enforce these dualities of livingry/killingry,
 while reserving unto itself the financial means to empower mercenaries,
 in order to "have the cake" of privatized resources, and
 hold them in preserve.  As was stated on the Quaker-P list, since
 Thatcher "post-industrialized" the UK,
 it's become the pre-eminent European arms merchant.
 I.e.this particular bit of "military Orwellianism" is used most unctuously
 against "Burma" and its evil "SLORC", without any interest
 by Reuters et al in the history of breedish rule & slavery and
 dope-running, continuously, including Orwell's stint
 as a Policeman for the Empire, when he learned quite a lot (e.g.) !!
    But currently done "by other means, neccesary;" after all,
 it is this popular story-telling that covers the fact
 that the "Golden Tetrahedron" included the Yunan Province of China,
 which is not to reflect upon the current leadership of China -- no matter,
 how a local "Republican" may wish to invest its meaning and Mao's,
 of "Communism" into that nation!
    Then, there's the "2 cultures" duality that Bucky sought to bridge,
 although this was always the ideal of Classical Humanist education,
 as part of the anti-oligarchical project of universal education,
 heretofore reserved for the aristocratic elite, as best realized
 in the republic of the USA,
 as it could not be Europe in the 18th CCE -- although there were attempts,
 before then, as first with France's Louis 11, or the Weimar Republic,
 before it was murdered by "Hitler's willing executors"
 (see "I Was Hitler's Banker" by Fritz Thyssen; this is not kiddingry !-)

  Major reference(s):
  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html
  http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:55:35 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      open the podbay door, GZK

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      26-JUL-1999 14:55
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 make this mystaque.
    we must avow apolitical organization (or anarchy?), because
 we have to appresiate the feudal form of *laissez faire*,
 as prpounded by the French Physiocrats, Adam Smith after them, and
 Karl Marx after Him (or Smith's God's Invisible Handedness,
 which We shall choose as our Thesis, against which
 We propose Antithesis, thus ballistically rendering our Synergethesis
 -- yay !-)
    as you did not see it in "Los Tiempos Mundo", although
 recent ink was finally spilled as to the *reason* that
 Alan Greenlove personally organized his investor-banker friends
 to bail-out the largest (and "Nobel") hedge-fund on Earth,
 last August --namely that the Stupid, economy could have tanked--
 here is what peristalsis just occurred in June:
 a much larger, $25-billion+ group of funds, principallythe Tiger Fund, was
 principally the Tiger Fund, were bailed-out, for the same reason, and
 *nothing* has changed about teh situation, except that
 the potential for a Weimar-style blow-out is greater than ever.

 if you'd like to get our paper (no advertizing to speak of) or
 our preeminent magazines of science or culture,
 call 800/453-4108, or "go thou unto" http://www.larouchepub.com

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:10:41 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      open the podbay doors, Dude!

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      26-JUL-1999 15:10
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I'd ask you to get outr magazine of Intelligence, but
 it costs an arm & a leg, or your lastborn (TV being what it is,
 your firstborn is not going to easily be made
 in the image of LaRouche, at this time --
 til we have our Education Intimation Programme up-and-running !-)
    so, just worry about you, yourself and Alfred E.Neuman, but
 realize that NATO and Congress (in the guise
 of the American Newtzi Party a.k.a.the "Republicans", along
 with a softcore of fellow-travelling Democrats) are running roughshod
 over the nations that'd say, Boo! to the IMF, but that
 we can reign the "new" NATO in, with the latter --
 after they are suitably "handled".

 come to visit our new headquarters in Leesburg, VA,
 in our new Fly's Head Dome -- a new meaning
 to Counterintelligence!

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:29:00 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Gomer Pyle (musical inversion of Hail Brittania)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      26-JUL-1999 16:29
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  MESSAGE   from =r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.U 22-JUL-19 19:28
  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      22-JUL-1999 18:12
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   Re these prior comments (appended),
   Parenti's "coincidence theory" was certainly a hoot,
   as I heard it on KPFK-FM (Pacifica in Los Angeles), although
   I find his often-hysterical hatred of the Founders off-putting
   (if it were artifice, it might be prototypically Fabian, and
   similar to Chomsky in most repsects).
      The heavy concentration of manufacturing
   in killingry, following the post-industrial policies
   of Thatcher, really is quite remarkable, and useful
   world-around for British-backed (if not -led) mercenaries.
      Likewise, the concern over "US oil & coffee companies"
   is completely ignorant of the massively ongoing cartelizations,
   partiuclarly of national banking systems.  in the USA, now,
   BP is the largest dystributor of fossilized (sik) fuels!   Similarly,
   the knee-jerk attack upon "Burma" uses ye olde colonial name,
   a l'Orwell in a kinky way, and relies solely upon Commonwealth
   organs d'information, such as AI and George "the golem" Soros'
   Human Rights Watch (I have fought local ordinances
   against "Burma", as above, whose source documents
   are solely from these same wonderful groups; again,
   it's not that they do nothing that is proper, or that
   they always lie about a nation, but it is the recontextualization
   and the massive ommission, i.e.of the historical role
   of the Empire in the dope trade in Burma, through
   to the OSS in the Indochina wars, and so on).
      As for the knee-jerk support by the Left
   of the Zapatistas (or the infamous-and-now-largest
   "3rd Cartel" of the FARC and ELN), do you ever wonder why,
   Marcos calls himself the SUBcommadante, and
   who is his super?...  as far as propoganda,
   it appears to be Cardinal Ruiz!
      As for Cuba, Castro is the head of the premier organization
   of Ibero-American "revolutionaries", the Sao Paolo Forum.
   You'll never hear about that on Pacifica, nor
   about his Synarchist roots at the Sorbonne.  Castro's cultivated
   the new, self-described Jacobin reformer-president of Venezuela,
   Chavez, who openly promotes the neolib/neocon dieals
   of the IMF et al, appropriately known as British Liberalism,
   and wishes to enshrine them in the Constitution (as has already
   been done in Columbia, under the gun of the FARC).
      Unfortunately, the UN agencies like the IMF,
   have not fulfilled their mandate from FDR,
   since the reconstruction of Europe.  They are effectively
   become the enforcers for the rentier-financier oligarchy, but
   that may just be coincidental, or theoretical.
      The eventual abolition of slavery was no "national failure"
   of the USA, but rather a decisive victory against the imperialist
   dysmemberment of the nation, and the wished-for spread
   of "American" slavery throughout Ibero-America,
   by these oligarchs.  Secession was hardly popular
   in the South, as much as it was enforced
   by the slaveocracy (and promoted by the Tories of Wall Street
   and of the New York Times, editorially). The fact that
   not all of Lincoln's successors were republicans,
   starting with Johnson, has been noted (to be nice .-)
      Thank you, for noting the not-so-isolationist Congress,
   and its proper action of not signing the abominable Treaty
   of Versailles (unlike the imperial powers).  Wison was another
   of those anti-republicans, I'm afraid.
      There sure as Hell *was* opposition to Hitler,
   which was repeatedly betrayed by Chamberlain and
   Churchill ("Gentleman, history shall be very kind
   to us", because I'm going to write it !-)   of course,
   Hitler and the Nazis were not electable,
   til Prescott Bush's Union Bank slushed the funds to'em;
   it was this circle of Harriman that also provided the "science"
   of eugenics for the 3rd Reich.
      The European Court is a part of the unelected,
   supranational EU structure; correct?...  This reminds me,
   of the folks who enshrine the Magna Carta,
   which was already put in its place in King Lear!
      I might be able to go into the "peace-keeping"
   of the Blue Helmets, under such arch-colonialists
   as Boutros-Boutros-Boutros, but that might seem to be
   *too* revisionist, at this pace.
      As for NATO, there has been a Blair-led effort
   to RE-establish it as an Anglo-American (unilateral) enforcer
   of IMF conditionalities, but it remains to be seen, if
   his Commander-in-Chief has Her way with it!
      The penintimate example of CIA dysinfo was Mellon-Scaife,
   who wroked for an anglo-american front known
   as World Forum Features, straight out of the Ivy League.  Now,
   as someone who is too rich for his own good,
   he has recently led the publishing assault
   upon President Clinton, into the Starr Chambres (and
   even feathering Starr's retirement at Pepperdine U.,
   almost).  This guy's nagnificent estates in Virginia,
   in its Hunt Country, is where QE2 stays on her visits
   to the environs of the Beltway.

   I seem to recall a Monty Python skit
   with a man-eating poodle; eh?

     thus quoth:
      The UK hasn't always been Langley's poodle.

     thus quoth:
      the CIA in 1978 to recruit journalists in Europe,
      who would introduce stories, print stories that would create sympathy
   for

     thus quoth:
          NATO was established as a means of subordinating other nations to
      will of Washington.  If the US had needed Canada, Mexico and Brazil
 to
      approve an action against, say, Nicaragua,  they'd have found a way
 to

     thus quoth:
      My impression is that armed peacekeeping has a very mixed record

     thus quoth:
      Very intriguing posting. The European Convention on Human rights,
 which
      the basic law for the European Court of Human Rights, also rewards
   study.
      It's a stronger document than the U.S. Constitution in many ways.

     thus quoth:
      In fact, there was no oppostion.  And Hitler's political clout grew
   while
      the general's was diminished.  It's been a long time since I read
 this
      comprehensive book but That is what I remember.  Correct me if
      I misstate the facts.>

     thus quoth:
      Although this is what is traditionally taught in the government
 funded
      schools in the U.S. (I don't know about elsewhere) it simply is not
 the
      case.  There were only about a dozen Senators who were truly
      "isolationist" and wanted no part of an organization.  The majority,
      both Democrat and Republican, wanted changes made (which
      many Europeans supported) to make it more workable.

     thus quoth:
      but it is not as immediately ours. There is not the same sense
      of failing as a nation, in the way that
      slavery and racial hatred are particular ghosts of

     thus quoth:
      But the UN and the Declaration are not fully embraced
      in the US. I believe it is the perceived threat
      to national sovereignty which is behind the Right's

     quoth from Texas-sized rant:
      Add to this the fact that this new self-appointed
      protecter and it's leader, the U.S., hardly has a spotless
      reputation when it comes to matters of human rights, war
      crimes, and even ethnic cleansing. (The CIA's record of
      meddling in Latin America, the immoral wars in Panama
      and Grenada, the sanctions on Cuba and Iraq, the bombing
      of Sudan and Afghanistan, etc.)
     [...]
      five every month in Iraq? Why are they not invading Burma?
      Or Angola? Or Afghanistan? Or any other nation?
        Look at the plight of the indigenous in Mexico. The Zapatistas
      in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas are being ethnically
      cleansed, systematically targeted for paramilitary action,
      and oppressed by a corrupt and almost autocratic leader, yet the
      U.S. supports the Mexican government and ignores the plight of
      the Zapatistas. (U.S. oil companies and coffe growers stand to


   --The Duke of Oil!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bushjfk.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:24:35 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ephemeralization
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On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:03:19 -0400, you wrote:

>Ref:  http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/tower.html
>
>With regard to Kenneth Snelson's criticism of Bucky's use of the word
>ephemeral (the root for ephemeralization), how about using "ethereal"
>instead (etherealization)?

I recall Arnold Toynbee used this word, meaning essentially what
Bucky meant.

Kirby
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Date:         Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:04:48 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: eudcation trepidation
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> with room left-over for a break of badminton.  He means well,
> but he is eaten alive by the Scylla of grammar and
> the Charybdis of the Wordproblemma, before
> he ever gets out of the Marina.

I think many would apply this analysis (or something close)=20
to your posts as well.  Whereas behind the scenes, where the
neurons connect the dots, you sense great cleverness, more
than half is lost in translation (from?), leaving the=20
costs/benefits relating to decipherment (of your prose)
balanced not in your favor.

And while we're on the topic, many would level the same=20
charge at your "Buckafka Fullofit" as well.  Language=20
certainly has a curious role to play in all of this, don't
it, as some kind of "in itself" not really owned or controlled
by any of its "masters".

>    So, in many respects, what Bucky has landed us is a sort
> of warmed-over New Geometry, a la Bourbaki but
> in the "other direction," along with a New History

A philosophical language investing in geometry as its principal
source of metaphors -- a place to harvest meanings already=20
honed to fine-tipped precision, but for use in humanities=20
applications in ways many consider inappropriate (part of what
makes the secondary chatter interesting, are the endless
debates in the wake of the experiment (Guinea Pig B)).

> from his tabla rasa, the latter being all but useless
> in actually ascertaining the powers that think-they-are,
> in their Potemkin Media Village (and

...methinks "useless" mainly because in competition with the
narrative accounts spieling forth from whom-you-consider-more-
the-role-model-sophisticate.

> of the "pugilist formerly known as the Princess" ??...  So,
> *that* is whence our slap-happy Transcenders hail -- Brittania!

Meaning Venezia! even further back, right?  Phoenecia even before?
I don't think Tarpley makes that last jump into the dimly lit
maritime beginnings.  Twas more Bucky's method to put a trace on
"ship tech" and make that the backbone of a multi-leveled yarn.

And I agree with you, there's lots to question re its veracity
(his yarn).  He brands himself as somewhat disconnected from reality=20
to the extent that we fail to materialize the submarine hulls he=20
winds up and sets to churning in the bowels of 'Critical Path'. =20
Or we do.  Disconnect, either way.

Certainly life would be easier if more truth were simply there=20
for the learning, by kids in need of getting their heads together
around reliable core teachings..  But the historical pot is=20
something to pollute with whatever misinformation deemed strategic=20
at the time.  Leaves scholars with an incredible maze, which some=20
even take at face value, finding that easier than daring to dig=20
(risking being branded as "fringe" -- certainly LLR and RBF took=20
a similar high seas course, in each daring to be their own captains
to such an extent -- but that isn't in itself a recipe for success
(takes more than chutzpah to be a great pirate, duh)).

>    Geometrically, synergetics is hypereuclidean, since it never strays
> beyond any of the axioms that were compiled by Euclid, as self-evident.

But does jettison the definitions, if not the axioms (can we so=20
cleanly separate the two), some of which are projected back to=20
only pseudo-Greek times (like, I'm not clear that Euclid ever had=20
the notion of "3 dimensional" -- do you know for sure?).

In synergetics, we don't have infinity with the same powers to bewitch.
In the micro direction, we get to discrete, and in the macro direction
we get to "ultratunable".  Stuff goes out of scope, more than "on and
on to an infinity we pretend we imagine".

>    If you mean by "global universtiy" what was meant by HGWells,
> with his "World Encyclopedia", as actually begun
> by reviving the Brittanica,

All language is an exercise in reprogramming over time, English as
much as any. Humans =3D reflex-conditioning + access to eternal =
principles.
In harping on the English legacy code, you do a lot to reinforce and
entrench nationalism.  And yet the maritime thread laces through all
of it, connoting "cross-breeding" and "cosmopolitan".  Maybe more so
than you can personally grok because personally lacking in self-awareness
-- a cannot say, not being in your shoes, nore an expert in your life
history.  But I think ever attacking Brits, while useful for balance=20
(and so with any kind of attacking), is just as prone to go overboard
as any lack of "wisdom in moderation".

LLR's tendency is to villify, to foam at the mouth, to get into his
own brand of rabid nationalism.  I find all that rather unAmerican-
sounding, quite frankly. =20

The maritime thread is about not taking any "nation" so seriously,=20
not because of British Empirial ownership of the high seas (wanting
to misdirect the masses from perceiving the Emperor in naked glory),=20
but because of Nature's Way (Tao), and the bankruptcy of all ego=20
dreams of absolute power (either in the "we" or the "them" projection). =20

Humans weren't dealt a full deck.  We play with what we've got, like=20
miners with headlamps (a favorite Kaufmann metaphor), never able=20
to glimpse the whole at once (the darkness of Universe is real,=20
and just as real to those managing the most cloistered and secret=20
of Swiss banks).

> to be massively sold in the USA, door-to-door, along
> with the "100 Greatest Books" that were ripped
> rom their historical contexts, to become self-evident atoms
> in that programme of Chicago U., along with its little turds
> of fraudulent historicizing ... you'll hpeofully just forget it.

I think you couch your comments in weird language because you'll
only go so far with your campaign, before you're stopped by=20
your imagination.  Your thinking contains its own built-in=20
stops -- mine too, which is why I recognize this "me ball"=20
economy.  Constraints betoken regenerativity in some way.

>    Then, there's the "2 cultures" duality that Bucky sought to bridge,
> although this was always the ideal of Classical Humanist education,
> as part of the anti-oligarchical project of universal education,
> heretofore reserved for the aristocratic elite, as best realized
> in the republic of the USA,

Yes, there's that.

> as it could not be Europe in the 18th CCE -- although there were =
attempts,
> before then, as first with France's Louis 11, or the Weimar Republic,
> before it was murdered by "Hitler's willing executors"
> (see "I Was Hitler's Banker" by Fritz Thyssen; this is not kiddingry =
!-)

Lots of water under the bridge by this time, no question.

>  Major reference(s):
>  http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html
>  http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:08:34 GMT
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From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: BFI WEBSITE
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On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:35:05 +0000, you wrote:

>Kirby you crack your own nuts.

<<SNIP>>

I replied to this last long-winded post from MSM
privately, off list.  If you see the whole thing=20
flooding back, you'll know it for spam, as it's
not my intention to further pollute this space.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:40:56 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Ephemeralization

MESSAGE from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU 27-JUL-1999 12:38
 On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:03:19 -0400, you wrote:

 >Ref:  http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/tower.html
 >
 >With regard to Kenneth Snelson's criticism of Bucky's use of the word
 >ephemeral (the root for ephemeralization), how about using "ethereal"
 >instead (etherealization)?

 I recall Arnold Toynbee used this word, meaning essentially what
 Bucky meant.

 Kirby
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      27-JUL-1999 12:40
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 ah-hah -- hahahahahaha!

 --All the Way (Home) to the Bank!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush1.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:28:34 +0000
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From:         "Michael S. Mitchell" <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
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Now the new radio telescope is in orbit the unitivity volume will
increase
drastically.  The volume is of course full of light going in all kinds
of radii that are confined to being time.  We are in this time.
We are time.  We make time.  GOD IS THIS VOLUME.
I have tried to show that all synergetics in within this cosmic volume
that is change at all times, hence unitivity.  The dymaxion state of the

cosmic unitary volume to experiment within our senses at all times
changing and now with the radio telescope will become much larger
and more precise in awareness. The syntrivity of humans the telescope
and the unitivity volume has origin of radii now.
Edwin Schlossberg god bless you.
All our hearts are with you in these days of faith.
Please bring "Good News" back.
STONED!
I am off to ride my Bike!
Thank you for the communications, kirb and hutch, latter.
Have a good day!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:42:11 +0000
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Haahahhaashahahhahahah!
bucky
John Cage

or was it backasswards.
If the British had let the sun set the population of the
world would be at least half now.

Brian Hutchings wrote:

> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      26-JUL-1999 14:35
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  As to the supposed cruciality of BFI's website, or Stanford's,
>  nothing is so obvious.  For me, the central thing is
>  to dump Bucky's avowed notion of "being an apoltical verb,"
>  as both excrucaitingly solipsitic & permanently sophomoric
>  (as well as tactically covering his butt from his fellow Brahmins .-)
>  That is to say, it's not just a properly naieve "learned ignorance," but
>  simply ignorant.  The fact that
>  Bucky was not ensnared by the empirical breedish "junior colleges"
>  of the Ivy League, is some thing to most thankful for,
>  after 4 degenerations of Hahvahd, because
>  he avoided the usual aristotleean mindshagging
>  that it'd have entailed.  (Similarly, we offer praise,
>  that Bill Clinton did not complete the Rhodes brainrinsing,
>  and that he was not hazed by the Skull and Bones shop
>  of oligarchical horrors.)  But, still,
>  there were his hallowed Transcendantilist influences, although
>  these are usually lauded along with "the Enlightenmnet,"
>  for what's in a name?
>     If only Mitch has the temerity to debate this notion,
>  by going to the extreme of launching a Bucky Party, straight
>  into the ground ... well, there seems to be enough room
>  in his rectal dysplay unit for everyone, called Unitivity,
>  with room left-over for a break of badminton.  He means well,
>  but he is eaten alive by the Scylla of grammar and
>  the Charybdis of the Wordproblemma, before
>  he ever gets out of the Marina.
>     So, in many respects, what Bucky has landed us is a sort
>  of warmed-over New Geometry, a la Bourbaki but
>  in the "other direction," along with a New History
>  from his tabla rasa, the latter being all but useless
>  in actually ascertaining the powers that think-they-are,
>  in their Potemkin Media Village (and
>  no help from MacLuhan, either, I'm afraid).  Legally,
>  Sun does not rise on the British Empire, because "Blimey,
>  we changed the name of it in the mid-70s!"  Technically it does not,
>  per the linguistical spin given by Bucky.  Realistically, can you think
>  of any other voting-block in the UN, larger than the 57 qua-nations
>  of the "pugilist formerly known as the Princess" ??...  So,
>  *that* is whence our slap-happy Transcenders hail -- Brittania!
>     Geometrically, synergetics is hypereuclidean, since it never strays
>  beyond any of the axioms that were compiled by Euclid, as self-evident.
>  Epistemoligically, it scratches the surface of the oligarchical horde
>  that he euphamizes, perhaps with a bow to the bastardized United Nations
>  (whose "father," FDR, unfortunately died
>  and could not oversee its creation, and the hoped-for smashing
>  of the several empires, and the dysallowance of 2 of them
>  to be on the Security Council, and so on).
>     If you mean by "global universtiy" what was meant by HGWells,
>  with his "World Encyclopedia", as actually begun
>  by reviving the Brittanica,
>  to be massively sold in the USA, door-to-door, along
>  with the "100 Greatest Books" that were ripped
>  rom their historical contexts, to become self-evident atoms
>  in that programme of Chicago U., along with its little turds
>  of fraudulent historicizing ... you'll hpeofully just forget it.
>  Otherwise, we may have a long Roe to 'Ho,
>  on the presumed-by-others problem of population growth and
>  development, vis-a-vu the externalized environment.
>     The oligarch seeks to enforce these dualities of livingry/killingry,
>  while reserving unto itself the financial means to empower mercenaries,
>  in order to "have the cake" of privatized resources, and
>  hold them in preserve.  As was stated on the Quaker-P list, since
>  Thatcher "post-industrialized" the UK,
>  it's become the pre-eminent European arms merchant.
>  I.e.this particular bit of "military Orwellianism" is used most unctuously
>  against "Burma" and its evil "SLORC", without any interest
>  by Reuters et al in the history of breedish rule & slavery and
>  dope-running, continuously, including Orwell's stint
>  as a Policeman for the Empire, when he learned quite a lot (e.g.) !!
>     But currently done "by other means, neccesary;" after all,
>  it is this popular story-telling that covers the fact
>  that the "Golden Tetrahedron" included the Yunan Province of China,
>  which is not to reflect upon the current leadership of China -- no matter,
>  how a local "Republican" may wish to invest its meaning and Mao's,
>  of "Communism" into that nation!
>     Then, there's the "2 cultures" duality that Bucky sought to bridge,
>  although this was always the ideal of Classical Humanist education,
>  as part of the anti-oligarchical project of universal education,
>  heretofore reserved for the aristocratic elite, as best realized
>  in the republic of the USA,
>  as it could not be Europe in the 18th CCE -- although there were attempts,
>  before then, as first with France's Louis 11, or the Weimar Republic,
>  before it was murdered by "Hitler's willing executors"
>  (see "I Was Hitler's Banker" by Fritz Thyssen; this is not kiddingry !-)
>
>   Major reference(s):
>   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html
>   http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:04:05 +0000
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Subject:      Re: BUCKMINSTER FULLER ARCHIVES
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It is official now the dome has been transferred to William H. Perk of
Carbondale Illinois to be made into a historical site for the world.
The archive is now complete to be made available by the year 2000
to humanity.

Best Regards,

                            Michael S. Mitchell

                            Owner of the Fuller dome from November 21,
1973
                            to July 28, 1999.  Thank you God for the
privilege!

Joe S Moore wrote:

>   Mr Michael A KellerStanford University Librarian Dear Sir, Could you
> please email me when the Buckminster Fuller Archives are available for
> viewing?  I would like to forward your notice to the Geodesic list &
> the bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup which has about 10,000 readers.
> Both the list & the newsgroup are concerned with anything relevant to
> the work of R Buckminster Fuller. Thank you in advance,
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
>



--------------C08BC0542E968A0A07FCD6FD
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<HTML>
It is official now the dome has been transferred to William H. Perk of
<BR>Carbondale Illinois to be made into a historical site for the world.
<BR>The archive is now complete to be made available by the year 2000
<BR>to humanity.

<P>Best Regards,

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Michael S. Mitchell
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Owner of the Fuller dome from November 21, 1973
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
to July 28, 1999.&nbsp; Thank you God for the privilege!

<P>Joe S Moore wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT SIZE=-1>Mr Michael A
Keller</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1>Stanford University Librarian</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Dear
Sir,</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Could you please email me when the Buckminster
Fuller Archives are available for viewing?&nbsp; I would like to forward
your notice to the Geodesic list &amp; the bit.listserv.geodesic newsgroup
which has about 10,000 readers.&nbsp; Both the list &amp; the newsgroup
are concerned with anything relevant to the work of R Buckminster Fuller.</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1>Thank
you in advance,</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Joe S Moore: <A HREF="mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: <A HREF="http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/">http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------C08BC0542E968A0A07FCD6FD--
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Date:         Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:31:48 -0400
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From:         Robert Burkhardt <bobwb@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ephemeralization
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I got the URL wrong.  Should be
http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/tower.html
Now that I look more closely, I see ephemeralization is nowhere
mentioned in the passage I cited from Synergetics (Fig. 740.21).  He is
talking about "miniaturization", although I think epheralization is
involved as well even if not mentioned.

When I refer to 792.52 where the term is mentioned, I read "This is at
the heart of all ephemeralization:  that is the dymaxion principle of
doing ever more with ever less weight, time, ergs per each level of
functional performance."
I much agree that however one labels it, Fuller's concept is very
enlightening.  Time is certainly involved, but I really think that
aspect is covered by the "-ization" suffix;  "ephemeralization" says
"becoming ephemeral" to me whereas when I look at Bucky's explanation I
see "becoming ethereal".  And where time is involved, he speaks about
using less time, not lasting less time which is what ephemeral is all
about.

On the other hand, when I see natural systems, I see systems that are
ephemeral where constructions are constantly being recycled to create
new
constructions.  And Bucky's thought is certainly aiming toward making
this more true for human technologies instead of the current state where
mounds of waste and toxics are growing everywhere and obsolete
constructions are maintained.  So though I can live with his overall
vision for a successful humanity's technological future being labeled as
"ephemeralization", his "doing more with less" talk about copper wires
evolving being replaced by satellites etc. strikes me more as
"etherealization".

I would label his vision of more comprehensive and frequent re-use of
materials as ephemeralization.  This seems at least as important to our
future as doing more with less.  There are certainly a lot of waste
heaps I would like to see ephemeralized instead of constantly growing.

Bucky really was my point of reference for the word "ephemeral" and it
was a bit of a shock to read the dictionary's definition.  I have
certainly appreciated his careful choice of words, but his choice
doesn't ring true for me when he uses "ephemeral" as a synonym for
"doing more with less", though I am all for doing more with less.

"Michael S. Mitchell" wrote:

> The truth does away with weight.
> This is a sort of way I look at it.
> It is such a lovely idea ephemeralization, a sort of do more
> with less, time investment, articulation investment, resource
> toxification, etc.  What a great word to work with.
> I love it. I agree with you Bruce. It also has a wait and think
> more attitude to it to become more comprehensive so as to
> see the big picture and map the whole first.  To anticipate and
> accelerate the future by seeing more with less specialization that
> is already included anyway in the artifactation, or imagination modeling.
> Snelson smellson!
>
> Bruce Ward wrote:
>
> > Though I greatly appreciate Snelson's work, I disagree on this point.
> > Ephemeralization is the right word.  Time IS involved.  We ephemeralize
> > our technology not only through learning how to accomplish the task at
> > hand with less mass, but with less energy and less time (fewer manhours)
> > as well.  Bucky was pretty careful about choosing his words.
> >
> > Robert Burkhardt wrote:
> > >
> > > Ref:  http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/tower.html
> >
> >       This URL didn't work for me.
> >
> > > With regard to Kenneth Snelson's criticism of Bucky's use of the word
> > > ephemeral (the root for ephemeralization), how about using "ethereal"
> > > instead (etherealization)?
> > >
> > > Snelson thinks ephemeral misses the mark since it's a time-based concept
> > > whereas Bucky seems to be referring to mass and bulk -- spatial
> > > phenomena.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:29:53 -0700
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"Please remove my address"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:30:22 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Ephemeralization

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      29-JUL-1999 16:30
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 excramentalization, anyone?
    seriously, a good comparison is to the work
 of Leibniz, the Bernoullis, Huyghens et al
 on the principle of least action,
 particularly the investigations of the brachistocrone or
 tautachrone (referring to its 2 primary qualities),
 which you can find in the "source books"
 of Struik or Smith.
    that is to compare with Galileo's lamer name (and investgation)
 of the "cycloid".  I don't think,
 it's been generalized to spatial trajectories, but
 I could be wrong about that; an intersting problemma?

 thus quoth:
  When I refer to 792.52 where the term is mentioned, I read "This is at
  the heart of all ephemeralization:  that is the dymaxion principle of
  doing ever more with ever less weight, time, ergs per each level of
  functional performance."

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:06:22 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: eudcation trepidation

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      29-JUL-1999 17:06
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the Greeks of Euclid may not have had any explicit 3 Ds,
 just as much as the study of linear proportions & means require the use
 of a planar piece of paper, and the constructions thereto,
 an actual "pair" of compasses (and I don't know if
 Dewdney tackled synthetic constructions in *his* flatlander opus,
 although it'd seem a requirement for flat machine-tools,
 ignoring the problem of flat molecules .-)
    I don't know quite what you mean by Lyn's frothing
 at the fountain-pen & his brand-name of rabid nationalism,
 which is generally known as chauvinism.  we have merely dug
 into the archives to prove a higher hypothesis
 of Webster Tarpley, which no-one has challenged,
 the better to avoid attention to the hysterical structure
 of the Venetian oligarchical project to this time.
 the USA was not an isolated republican conspiracy of one,
 as we know particularly from the work of Ben Franklin.
    as for the problem of "rhymes-with-Felicia",
 I have only scratched the surface of our work on that, but
 I'd say that it goes well-beyond what Bucky saith,
 toward our time & away.  for instance,
 our recent coverage of the Greco-Egyptian partial circumnavigation,
 and Odysseus' transatlantic voyage, and so forth.  and
 there's lots of stuff about the Phoenicians, as well,
 in the old *Campaigner* and *Fusion* magazines (their titles,
 before being forced in to bankruptcy by the goment),
 I think.

 primary refernce: http://www.tarpley.net/aobook.htm

 thus quoth:
  Meaning Venezia! even further back, right?  Phoenecia even before?
  I don't think Tarpley makes that last jump into the dimly lit
  maritime beginnings.  Twas more Bucky's method to put a trace on
  "ship tech" and make that the backbone of a multi-leveled yarn.

 --Candidate(s) in Tow!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:24:00 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      inoffensive behaviours

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      29-JUL-1999 17:24
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  SUBJECT: Re: [Q-P] Medical Care Costs
  MESSAGE   from =r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.U 26-JUL-19 16:58
  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      26-JUL-1999 15:51
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   Firstly, I can't believe that the social dysparities
   within Europe are any less
   than in the US, *before* the Balkans War 2.5+, what with the IMF
   running roughshod, there and in Russia etc.  Now,
   the EC and its members refuse to do anything, to reconstruct
   after the "new" (post-Gulfwar) NATO project in Serbia,
   which includes the lack
   of significant "preparedness" of our Army Corps of Engineers.  (Note:
   some trade-unionists in Croatia sent a letter to "all of the below",
   decrying the fact that they could not get any new-built ships
   out from the Danube, for sale, and this is the primary artery
   for trade in the region, whose work-around requires the use of a
 halfway-
   completed tunnel through the mountains, and so on).  In other words,
   the war ain't really over; it's just a cease-fire.
      As for the Protestant Ethic, why *not* blame it on Calvin,
   or Martin Luther, or Hobbes, or Jeramy Bentham
   -- in offense of pederasty?
   (oops; I realize, that is a sort of tradition in the "Public Schools",
   or so saith Alan Watts !-)

   As for income tax, it is true that this country was built
   upon  tarrifs, to protect from the British Liberal ideology
   of Free Trade (and to save from comparitive dysadvantage,
   what is the same thing).  However so, "protectionism" is a bad word
   to fundamentalists like Greenspan, a self-described disciple
   of Ayn Rand!
      As for the federal "preemption" of  of that tax,
   the state of California just did that with property taxes
   by not bonding an educational initiative, thus devolving the expenses
   to the county level, already crunched.  However,
   this is all contigent upon the burgeoning market bubbles,
   notably the recent, covered-up biggest-ever hedgefund bailout,
   this June, of Tiger et al; much bigger than LTCM was.

   It's true that Henry Stimpson was the only Secty.of War to drop a bomb
   on Hiroshima "and Nagasaki, two," but
   the Cuban Missile Crisis was the result
   of a direct collusion between Pugwasher and "pacifist" Lord Russell,
   and Kruschev.  You can thus see how it is that Russell's croney,
   Leo Szilard, was the prototypical "doctor Strangelove".
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:48:14 -0700
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From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: link to your webpage?
Comments: To: Margit Gedra <margit@umiacs.umd.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Margit,

Look in my map page http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Links/Mapping.htm.

Also, the Buckminster Fuller Institute has some maps;
see http://www.bfi.org/shopping/purchase.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: Margit Gedra <margit@umiacs.umd.edu>
To: Joe S Moore <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 6:10 PM
Subject: RE: link to your webpage?


> Sure - It will probably be a few weeks before I do any major changes
(summer
> class and work and [heh] sleep getting in the way), but I will let you
know
> when it starts to take a little better shape.
>
> By the way, I remember seeing a PBS special (I think) about Fuller, and
they
> mentioned a world map where he had tried to graph or make a flow-chart the
> world's natural resources.  There is also a composite map the earth made
of
> weather satellite pictures on clear days.  The map is made up of
triangular
> sections, so there is little distortion of the shape of the continents.
Do
> you know where I can find out more about these two maps?  Thanks again.
>
> -Margit
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe S Moore [mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 8:57 PM
> > To: Margit Gedra
> > Subject: Re: link to your webpage?
> >
> >
> > Dear Margit,
> >
> > Please do!  And would you mind letting me know when you have your Bucky
> > material posted to your web site?  I'd like to take a look at it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Margit Gedra <margit@umiacs.umd.edu>
> > To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 5:16 PM
> > Subject: link to your webpage?
> >
> >
> > > Would it be o.k. to make a link to your homepage,
> > > http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/index.html?  My website (which
> > is still in
> > > its infancy) is
> > > http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~margit/home.html.  It is nowhere
> > near finished,
> > > but the types of items that are there give a taste to the types
> > of things
> > I
> > > want on it.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your response.
> > >
> > > -Margit
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:31:03 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Burkhardt <bobwb@JUNO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: Ephemeralization


> I got the URL wrong.  Should be
> http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/tower.html
> Now that I look more closely, I see ephemeralization is nowhere
> mentioned in the passage I cited from Synergetics (Fig. 740.21).  He is
> talking about "miniaturization", although I think epheralization is
> involved as well even if not mentioned.
>
> When I refer to 792.52 where the term is mentioned, I read "This is at
> the heart of all ephemeralization:  that is the dymaxion principle of
> doing ever more with ever less weight, time, ergs per each level of
> functional performance."
> I much agree that however one labels it, Fuller's concept is very
> enlightening.  Time is certainly involved, but I really think that
> aspect is covered by the "-ization" suffix;  "ephemeralization" says
> "becoming ephemeral" to me whereas when I look at Bucky's explanation I
> see "becoming ethereal".  And where time is involved, he speaks about
> using less time, not lasting less time which is what ephemeral is all
> about.
>
> On the other hand, when I see natural systems, I see systems that are
> ephemeral where constructions are constantly being recycled to create
> new
> constructions.  And Bucky's thought is certainly aiming toward making
> this more true for human technologies instead of the current state where
> mounds of waste and toxics are growing everywhere and obsolete
> constructions are maintained.  So though I can live with his overall
> vision for a successful humanity's technological future being labeled as
> "ephemeralization", his "doing more with less" talk about copper wires
> evolving being replaced by satellites etc. strikes me more as
> "etherealization".
>
> I would label his vision of more comprehensive and frequent re-use of
> materials as ephemeralization.  This seems at least as important to our
> future as doing more with less.  There are certainly a lot of waste
> heaps I would like to see ephemeralized instead of constantly growing.
>
> Bucky really was my point of reference for the word "ephemeral" and it
> was a bit of a shock to read the dictionary's definition.  I have
> certainly appreciated his careful choice of words, but his choice
> doesn't ring true for me when he uses "ephemeral" as a synonym for
> "doing more with less", though I am all for doing more with less.
>
> "Michael S. Mitchell" wrote:
>
> > The truth does away with weight.
> > This is a sort of way I look at it.
> > It is such a lovely idea ephemeralization, a sort of do more
> > with less, time investment, articulation investment, resource
> > toxification, etc.  What a great word to work with.
> > I love it. I agree with you Bruce. It also has a wait and think
> > more attitude to it to become more comprehensive so as to
> > see the big picture and map the whole first.  To anticipate and
> > accelerate the future by seeing more with less specialization that
> > is already included anyway in the artifactation, or imagination
modeling.
> > Snelson smellson!
> >
> > Bruce Ward wrote:
> >
> > > Though I greatly appreciate Snelson's work, I disagree on this point.
> > > Ephemeralization is the right word.  Time IS involved.  We
ephemeralize
> > > our technology not only through learning how to accomplish the task at
> > > hand with less mass, but with less energy and less time (fewer
manhours)
> > > as well.  Bucky was pretty careful about choosing his words.
> > >
> > > Robert Burkhardt wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ref:  http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/tower.html
> > >
> > >       This URL didn't work for me.
> > >
> > > > With regard to Kenneth Snelson's criticism of Bucky's use of the
word
> > > > ephemeral (the root for ephemeralization), how about using
"ethereal"
> > > > instead (etherealization)?
> > > >
> > > > Snelson thinks ephemeral misses the mark since it's a time-based
concept
> > > > whereas Bucky seems to be referring to mass and bulk -- spatial
> > > > phenomena.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:17:28 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Ephemeralization

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-JUL-1999 14:17
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Heron's result remained  a more or less isolated curiousity
 til 1661, when Fermat found that both the reflection and refraction
 of light appeared to obey a single principle of least time,
 tahter than least distance (Ex. 8.1).  This in turn eventuall
 prompted the question of whether there might
 be some equivalent `minimum principle' governing problems
 of *mechanics*...
    The main driving force behind this idea was theological.
 If Nature were expending as little `action' as possible, then
 it would be working, in some sense, as `perfectly' as possible,
 and for Maupertuis this meant

 ... proof of the existence of Him who governs the sorld.

    This philosophical idea is somewhat reminiscent
 of Liebniz's earlier contention that we might be living
 in `the best of all possible worlds,' which had itself been met
 with some skepticism at the time.  It was most famously attacked
 in Voltaire's novel *Candide* (1759), and in due course
 Voltaire poured scorn on Maupertuis's philosophy also, writing

 We ask forgiveness of God for having pretended that
 there is only proof of his existence in A+B divided by Z, etc...

    For present purposes, hoever, the main weaqkness
 of Maupertuis's least action principle is that
 he never really gives a proper  definition of what action *is* ...

 --from David Acheson, _From Calculus to Chaos_, Coyr.'97

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:20:20 -0700
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From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      "new" NATO terror

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-JUL-1999 14:20
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  SUBJECT: [Q-P] "new" NATO terror
  MESSAGE   from =r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.U 30-JUL-19 14:09
  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-JUL-1999 12:33
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

    SUBJECT: excuses
    MESSAGE   from Brian Hutchings                    07-JUL-19  3:14


    Dear Editor, re Monday's Metro Sec.;
       There's something funny about Mr. _____'s finding of a screw-up
    at the Pentagon (although it's nice to see "the CIA" not villified, for
    once).
       He properly locates the fault with SACEUR Gen. Wesley Clark,
    for not co-ordinating with the military attaches, who'd have been over
    to the "new" address of the Chinese Embassy for some time (and
    who might have a recent map).  However, his whole scenario
    for the apprehension of the correct target by the Pentagon (or
    by the CIA, before the unfortunate transfer) seems to suppose,
    that the satellite or aerial reconnaisance of an embassy is going
    to be able to read the signs on the building -- on the sides!
       If embassies have a sign, painted on the roof, I stand corrected.
    But, no matter what you believe of the "Phantom Red Chinese Menace,"
    this grotesque violation of law has to be taken seriously,
    with minimally a reprimand of Gen. Clark, if not his courtmartial,
    to make very sure that it was not sabotage by a real investigation.

    --Sincerely, Brian Hutchings

   --All the Way (Home) to the Bank!
   http://www.tarpley.net/bush1.htm

 Message 804...REPLY, PASS, DELETE, or ? for options:  (pass) 805

 (805)  ------------------------------------------------
  SUBJECT: [Q-P] "new" NATO terror
  MESSAGE   from =r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.U 30-JUL-19 14:09
  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Hutchings                      30-JUL-1999 12:37
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

   as an addendum, I heard on the radio (KPFK local news) that
   this target was the *only* one that was sent-out especially
   to the CIA, at this time, or some thing like that.
      of course, my letter was not published in any
   of the local fishwrap.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 31 Jul 1999 05:23:17 -0600
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 05:13:54 -0600
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Dear Kiyoshi:

I just read your letter regarding EPCOT Center
(http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/docs/epnote1.html),
which coincided with a front page article in the local
newspaper regarding unsubstantiated rumors that Disney will
build a theme park, or other attraction, in the Central Texas
area. And I wanted to write to you about the R. Buckminster
Fuller Spaceship Earth Science City. I had the idea for the
Spaceship Earth Science City for who knows how long before I
added the title of R. buckminster Fuller to it, which gave it
life. The Spaceship Earth Science City website, under
development, will include such projects as the Working Model
for Spaceship Earth, Virtual Model for Spaceship Earth,
Apollo Project for Spaceship Earth, the Spaceship Earth Race,
R. Buckminster Fuller Spaceship Earth Science City, the
Greatest Show on Spaceship Earth,
Successful Goal Setting for Spaceship Earth, and many other projects.

The following is slightly revised from messages that I posted
to the Tetworld mailing list
(http://members.tripod.com/~Tetworld/+index.html)
regarding the R. buckminster Fuller Spaceship Earth Science
City.

The R. Buckminster Fuller
Spaceship Earth Science City (tm)
Strategically Located in Central Texas
A Launch Site for the Spaceship Earth Race
An International Cooperative Effort to Achieve
Complete Physical Success for All Humanity
Within the First Decade of The Twenty-First Century

The World Game Pavilion, as envisioned by Buckminster Fuller
for the Montreal
Expo, could be the centerpiece of the Spaceship Earth Science
City. It's construction could be the groundbreaking ceremony
for the project. The strategies developed by the World Game
would be the Critical Path for the Spaceship Earth Race. The
individuals and teams created by the World Game could
initiate Spaceship Earth Science Cities on every continent of
the Earth. Then we could speed up the process of human
development to conform with our Space Age potentials and win
the game.

The pavilion housing the World Game can be converted for
other uses. It can host
a World Game in the daytime and convert to play soccer (the
official sport of the
Spaceship Earth Science City) or to host a concert that night.

Mass-producing advanced life-support technologies, such as
Dwelling Machines, and spawning other Spaceship Earth Science
Cities around the globe, are the primary purposes of the
Spaceship Earth Science City. In addition to production
facilities, the Spaceship Earth Science City will be a theme
park and tourist attraction, convention and trade center,
sports and entertainment arena, research, development and
prototyping facility, training and education center, media
and entertainment development center, and will have many
other additional facilities such as 'space-farms.' It will be
a model city for a 21st century scientific civilization. It
will have all of the facilities of a conventional city.

There's lots of space available in Central Texas for a
venture of this type. Central Texas (centered between Dallas,
Fort Worth, Houston, Austin and San Antonio) is a
combination of dense populations and wide open spaces.
According to recent articles in the newspaper, Central Texas
is primed for such a venture such as the Spaceship Earth
Science City. I believe so as well.

While politics certainly played a part in choosing Central
Texas as the location for
the failed superconducting-supercollider it's a clear
indication that Central Texas is a prime location for
building the most advance high-tech center that our 21st
century technological civilization can achieve. Local
authorities believe that the Central Texas area, between
Houston, Austin and Dallas-Fort Worth is primed for the
establishment of a high-tech center. They say that it's only
a matter of time. Experts that were paramount in establishing
Austin, Texas as a high-tech center have been hired as
consultants to develop a strategy and lure business interest
to this area to establish a high-tech center. There's already
a lot going on here, in computers, aerospace, and many
fields, it just doesn't have the high profile that other
high-tech  centers have.

Central Texas is a strategic location for the R. Buckminster
Fuller Spaceship Earth Science City because of the many
educational institutions, aerospace, computer and electronics
industries, mass-production housing industries, extensive
agricultural infrastructure that must be moved into the Space
Age, Texas growing wind energy industry and dying oil
industry, mild climate, close proximity to other theme parks
and tourist attractions (Six Flags, Astro World, Sea World,
Space Center, plus numerous water parks,  botanical gardens,
zoos and wildlife parks, caverns for tourist to explore, and
countless other attractions), the rapidly growing population
and central location to all of North America's major
population centers, and the growing need for housing and
other infrastructure in the region. It's central location in
the United States, and all the major population centers in
Texas, has made Central Texas an ever increasingly popular
location for conventions and events of all kinds. There is
not enough hotels and facilities to meet demand. More such
infrastructure, such as the Spaceship Earth Science City
Hotel and Convention Center, would attract more and larger events.

The Spaceship Earth Science City is at the vision stage of
development. There are
more questions than answers. There are no hard designs.
Designers, engineers
and students will develop the design.

Investors are standing in line waiting for a venture like
this to open up. Investors
will continue to shuffle their money around wrecking havoc on
the world's
economy until a venture like this comes along that represents
a viable transition from the old economy of scarcity to the
new economy of abundance.

The Spaceship Earth Science City, strategically located in
Central Texas, and dedicated to the achievement of complete
physical success for all humanity, symbolically represents a
clear alternative to the Apocalyptic doomsday prophecy of
David Korish that Waco, Texas has come to symbolize, and
which it can't seem to shake off. The tragedy in Waco and the Spaceship
Earth Science City symbolize humanities race between utopia
and oblivion.

As the home of the failed superconducting-supercollider,
Central Texas is
symbolically fitting as the location of the Spaceship Earth
Science City. It's also
fitting that the Texas legislature designated the
buckminsterfullerene, "the Official Molecule of the State of
Texas." When I have time, I'll explain why the
superconducting-supercolider, formerly slated for
construction in Central Texas,
was domed to failure from it's inception, and why the R.
Buckminster Fuller
Spaceship Earth Science City, strategically located in
Central Texas, is destined
for success. For now, I'll leave with these quotes from Cosmography.

"Synergetics provides real-world understanding of
interarrangeabilities of
subatomic particles, which is to say, a more sophisticated
understanding of subatomics than that of the nuclear
physicist whose favorite tool is the atom smasher.
        "Although I have gone into this subject in a certain
amount of detail, what I have
intended to demonstrate is simply that the framework of
synergetic geometry
makes possible the discovery of many varieties of subatomics
all within the same
seemingly static space.
        "Through the use of synergetic geometry, then,
particle physics, which is
one of the more abstruse and esoteric areas of frontier
theorizing in science, falls within the grasp of the ordinary
individual, allowing him or her to consider, to model, and to
puzzle over it. Synergetics uses simple models based on a few
basic modules that fit together in the most logical possible
ways. Synergetics uses whole numbers,
completely eliminating all irrational, imaginary, and
irresolvable numbers and
complex formulae. It is amazing that technology has been able
to produce what it
has, considering the obstacle presented by current scientific
conventions in the field of geometry and measurement. The
scientific and academic establishment still
cowers in the Dark Ages imposed by human power structures
many centuries ago. The dawn of scientific civilization is
yet at hand."
        "Government-financed, private-enterprise-exploited
atomic accelerators and their kindred producers spend about a
billion dollars per subatomic particle discovered, whereas I
have firmly established and classified all that they have or
ever will soon discover, and vastly more, only at the cost of
living expenses for self and family during my fifty-four-year program.
        "These are my own half-century-ago discoveries, comprehensively
published together for the first time in Synergetics." --
Buckminster Fuller.
Cosmography p. 63

"The present preoccupation of the world's physicists is to
use billions of dollars'
worth of atom smashers to discover something about the
nucleus of the atom,
which is akin to smashing a Boeing 747 in order to discover
how it's 500,000
component parts fit together in one functional design. All
the physicists need to
do is study Synergetics to learn how nature designed atoms
and combinations
of them - in pure principle." -- Buckminster Fuller.
Cosmography p. 244-245

Below are links to postings made to the GEODESIC newsgroup
that are stored in the list archives. These introduce some of
the projects under development for the Spaceship Earth
Science City website.

Please make note of the Annual Countdown to Complete Physical
Success for All Humanity: the Official Event of the Third
Millennium (tm). The Countdown will include the First
Annual Dwelling Machine Design and Trade Show, Food
for Everyone: Trade Show of Space Age Agricultural Technology,
and the Neumatic Universe (tm): A Dramatic Neu World of
Pneumatic Technology (tm) Trade Show of Pneumatic Science and
Technology. These design and tradeshows will be held under
the banner of, the Design Science Exposition (tm): The
Official Trade Show of the Millennial Design Science
Revolution (tm). These events, scheduled for July 12-20,
2001, need sponsors and coordinators right away.

For the Benefit of All Humanity!

Sincerely,
James Lawson

The Official Event of the Third Millennium (tm):
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9810&L=geodesic&P=R5474

Countdown and Tradeshow Update:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9812&L=geodesic&F=&S=&P=10853

Design Science Revolution 101 (Dwelling Machines):
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9811&L=geodesic&P=R9103

The Gift of Abundance: A Dream We Can Achieve That's Even
Better Than Santa
Clause:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9901&L=geodesic&P=R1670&m=10306

>From Complete Failure to Complete Success for All Humanity:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9809&L=geodesic&P=R3275

Call me trimtab: Buckminster Fuller Biography:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9811&L=geodesic&P=R408

The Spaceship Earth Race: Countdown to Complete Physical
Success for All
Humanity:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9809&L=geodesic&P=R11067

The Birth of Scientific Civilization -- and Beyond:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9809&L=geodesic&P=R8528

The Third Millennium: A Race Between Utopia and Oblivion?:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9810&L=geodesic&P=R6730

The Philosophers' Stone:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9809&L=geodesic&P=R12583

The Greatest Show on Spaceship Earth:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9809&L=geodesic&P=R4156

The Revolution Begins with the Punks:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9809&L=geodesic&P=R8034

I've been told world peace is not possible:
http://LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9810&L=geodesic&P=R4182

--------------B9515537AD370265792942D6--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:13:10 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: "new" NATO terror
In-Reply-To:  <199907302120.OAA24817@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>   as an addendum, I heard on the radio (KPFK local news) that
>   this target was the *only* one that was sent-out especially
>   to the CIA, at this time, or some thing like that.
>      of course, my letter was not published in any
>   of the local fishwrap.

This is a thread I follow, but not on GEODESIC.  Tenet testified
before Congress re his "ultimate responsibility" for the snafu,
with $4 million in recompense another hot-on-its-heels story.

Then there's the matter of the veterinary facility in the Sudan,
hit with cruises -- night watchman killed, more damage next door,
economic hardship in the many ripple-effects.  The owner hired=20
a high powered firm to press charges, and all evidence of any
"secret chemical weapons plant" failed to materialize as the=20
court date approached....

If you think of the internet as providing access to a shared=20
file cabinet, then it becomes of some interest as to how to=20
best file one's posts, and how to gain access to posts filed=20
by others. Sometimes putting copies in multiple folders for
good measure is an OK strategy (so-called 'cross-posting') --=20
other times not. =20

Methinks those who want to "connect the dots" by author will=20
do so, and those mostly interested in sorts "by subject"=20
maybe won't.  I think of GEODESIC as a "by subject" repository,
and try to keep at least an ephemeral hyperlink back to the
central author in question.  Gets *very* ephemeral (the links)
sometimes, I realize.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:34:38 GMT
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ephemeralization
In-Reply-To:  <199907302117.OAA24765@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

'Synergetics' contains this model of apprehension versus
comprehension. =20

"Apprehension" has these secondary meanings of "apprehensive"=20
(anxious) and "to apprehend" (as in "to snag a culprit", which
culprit might be apprehensive about his/her possible=20
apprehension).

"Comprehension" doesn't have such a downside, at least not=20
in my book.

In Buckyverse, awareness is inevitably associated with "lag"=20
and "sorting through".  The special cases events flow into=20
the stack for processing.  But only upon reconsideration=20
and reflection do the puzzle pieces start fitting into=20
place (or not).  The apprehensive phase is like when a=20
lot of facts and figments are in some kind of holding=20
pattern, sometimes nagging at one's consciousness, but=20
are not yet "digested" (in the sense of comprehended).
Everything is kind of "up in the air".

The "eternal now" is posited as operational in pure principle,
is conceptualized maybe as a pin-point of concentrated=20
intelligence, an omega of instantaneous comprehension.  This=20
is the black hole of "cosmic zero" towards which the special=20
cases gravitate.  But as mortal awarenesses, it's always the=20
discordant haze of only partially comprehended material=20
which bedevils our subjectivity, is the content of Universe=20
itself, as cosmic zero is Nothing, or Empty.

So the temporeal is the lagged, is the semi-comprehended,=20
is the unsorted, the unsequenced, and is the raw material=20
of awareness.  As it compacts towards a center, it "densifies"=20
by gaining symmetry.  However, it also ephemeralizes, as
the special cases lose their identity in pure logic, become=20
manifestations of operational mathematics, of pure principles. =20
This is the big bang model in reverse, a "big crunch" wherein=20
every aspect of Universe is reconciled to its principled,
metaphysical origins (outside of time -- definitely resonates=20
with Teilhard's model).

=46uller hoped that "networks and networking" would help=20
transform humanity from class II to class I style evolution.
Class II is backing into the future responding nature's=20
cues for the wrong reasons, focussing on an institutionalized
[set of rules -- KU] containing lots of misinformation and=20
buggy code.  Class I is responding the nature's cues for the=20
right reasons. =20

"Working to survive" is an aspect of both, i.e. it's not
the case that Class I is about "altruism" whereas Class II
is about "completely selfish self-interest".  On the contrary,
it is in our selfish self-interest to tackle humanity's=20
problems more comprehensively and anticipatorily than=20
hitherto, because we have tools to address our predicatment
that we didn't before, whereas futzing around in politics=20
is often to indulge in yesteryear's practice of ever putting
off and delaying action -- because we didn't have the tools,
and really there was no way (something you didn't want to=20
say directly, hence the fine art of political rhetoric).

The World Wide Web is a kind of synaptic structure which=20
feeds our awareness by allowing us to "connect the dots"=20
more rapidly.  This isn't to discount the fact that the=20
web is replete with misinformation, nor is it to discount
the importance and relevance of other networks (e.g. the
television networks) when it comes to speeding the digestion
of global data, special case events, as per more principles-
informed models (such as are furnished by general systems=20
theory).  But the web stands out because of its metaphoric
attributes -- it seems a lot like a topology of edges and
vertices, with web pages as vertices and edges as hyperlinks.

Kirby

=46or further reading:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/system.html
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/gstuniv.html


Cross-posted from:

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:19:13 -0700
To: "synergetics-l" <synergetics-l@telelists.com>
=46rom: Kirby Urner <pdx4d@teleport.com>
Subject: [synergetics-l] Comprehension vs. Apprehension