From MAILER-DAEMON  Sat Oct 12 10:55:57 2002
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57])
	by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with SMTP id g9CEtumd017853
	for <Chris@CJFEARNLEY.COM>; Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:55:56 -0400
Message-Id: <200210121455.g9CEtumd017853@linux00.LinuxForce.net>
Received: (qmail 29659 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2002 14:55:56 -0000
Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (listserv@128.205.7.35)
  by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 12 Oct 2002 14:55:56 -0000
Date:         Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:55:54 -0400
From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)"
              <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject:      File: "GEODESIC LOG0007"
To: Chris Fearnley <Chris@CJFEARNLEY.COM>
Status: O
Content-Length: 363686
Lines: 8711

=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:20:24 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Design Science 101
In-Reply-To:  <002401bfe1ef$58d74700$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I put up a new web page tonight reviewing some economic
concepts in a design science context (Design Science 101).

The idea here is that the Malthusian, Apollo-transitional,
and Design Science mindsets are all operational simultaneously
aboard Spaceship Earth.  It's not like everyone suddenly goes
to the next paradigm, all at the same time.  It just doesn't
work that way.

Although I've deliberately put a sort of "USA spin" on a
lot of this (because I want critical iconography to move
forward, as per my "capture the flag" strategy (ultra-
conservative)), the perspective is inherently global, and
adaptable to other contexts as well.

http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ecotheory.html is the
page I'm talking about.

Feel free to use my GIF inside your PowerPoint presentations,
if you're one of those Fuller Schoolers going around in business
circuits with a trusty laptop.  I've put one such slide show
in the public domain as an example (this one about math education
though, not economics):

ftp://ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/pdx4d/images/synergeo.ppt

I realize PowerPoint is Windows-centric.  That shouldn't
keep us from doing similar presentation graphics for other
platforms.  Just PowerPoint makes it easy -- only took me
a couple hours (or less) to come up with the above file.

Kirby
4D Solutions
Portland, Oregon
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:00:01 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      *SEMI-MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        This is the semi-monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list.  It has
info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting
instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those
who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations.
        This message is being posted on Sat Jul  1 00:00:00 PDT 2000.
        If you are tired of receiving this message twice per month, and are
reading bit.listserv.geodesic through USENET news, then you can enter this
subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set
up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth
learning how to do, if you don't know already.
        And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations
relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller.
        Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to
autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between.

        On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited
promotions are not. (Simple, eh?)
                           -----------------------
        To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in
the body of your letter put the line:

SUB GEODESIC <Your Real Name>

        When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU!

        LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions,
administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is
the actual discussion group.  Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all
members. (And you don't want to look like a jerk having everyone see your "SUB
GEODESIC John Q.  Public" command!  ;^) )

        This list is also linked to USENET in the group bit.listserv.geodesic

        If you want to receive copies of everything you send to the list, use
the command SET GEODESIC REPRO. If you DON'T want copies, use SET GEODESIC
NOREPRO.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TO SIGN OFF THE LIST:

        Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in
the body of your letter put the line:

SIGNOFF GEODESIC

        You should receive a confirmation note in the mail when you have
been successfully removed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LIST ARCHIVES:
- Reference.COM has begun archiving this list as of:
        Jan. 4, 1997

- Searchable archives for the lists are available at:
http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=GEODESIC@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu

And of course, Listserv itself is keeping archives of the list, dating back
to June, 1992. Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with
this message in the BODY of the note:

INDEX GEODESIC

        You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line
HELP
        into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are
interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and
unsubscribe.)

Pat
 _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________
                 Patrick G. Salsbury <salsbury@sculptors.com>
                     http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
                           -----------------------
                      Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:35:24 +0100
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Paul Taylor <pt@NOUS.ORG.UK>
Subject:      Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Bringhurst" <RBringhurst@compuserve.com>
> To: "Joe Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 3:13 PM
> Subject: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller

> > I do not know whether some or all of this may be direct quotation
> > from Fuller. But in looking through his books, I have not yet found
> > a passage in which this idea is really raised. Watercraft are mentioned
> > very frequently, of course, but I have not yet found a passage where
> > Fuller says more or less explicitly "that the beginnings of design are
> > found in the early work of those who lived by and of the sea."
> > Do you know where I might find this theme in Fuller's work, or can you
> > suggest someone else who might know that work well enough to help me?

Hello,

There is a passage in "Utopia or Oblivion" about the early history of land
and sea technologies. It ends thus:

"So in the course of world history we find the great pirates and their
respective powers developing a scientific search for doing-more-with-less,
going around the earth, finding more effective resources and more effective
technologies that gave them ever-higher capabilities. Those who knew the
most about the earth by scientific discovery and experiment were able to get
the strongest fibres for their sails and rigging and the strongest timber
and fittings for their hulls and so forth, and could build the best ship to
ultimately rule the other men of the sea." (p.266)

I hope that's helpful.

There are a few other references scattered around on my site, including one
about Fluid Geography:

http://www.nous.org.uk/fluid.html


Paul Taylor
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Jul 2000 14:52:39 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      cosmic accounting part deux
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFE36C.009E2300"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFE36C.009E2300
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've started this web page about cosmic accounting. =
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html

Any or all comments or suggestions would be appreciated, even for the =
title of the page. And if someone(s) could check my math I would =
appreciated that too. I'd also like to post my desert water dome page =
from years back.

 http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html

Thanks

Mark



------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFE36C.009E2300
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've&nbsp;started this web page about =
cosmic=20
accounting. <A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html">htt=
p://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html</A></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any or all comments or suggestions =
would be=20
appreciated, even for the title of the page. And if someone(s) could =
check my=20
math I would appreciated that too. I'd also like to post my desert water =
dome=20
page from years back.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html">http://ww=
w.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFE36C.009E2300--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Jul 2000 08:09:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   01-JUL-2000  8:09
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

  <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   01-JUL-2000  6:23
                   r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

    <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   01-JUL-2000  4:33
                     r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

     well, _Critical Path_ should have that all-adumbrated, as,
     I suppose, _Posthumous Scenario_ --
     both phrases to be applied to Spaceshoppin'Earth!

     thus quoth:
      There is a passage in "Utopia or Oblivion" about the early history of
     land
      and sea technologies. It ends thus:

     this is what happens, when you get to command your own naval vessel,
     without any "help" from the portside authority!

     --Panama Deception!
     http://www.tarpley.net/bush23.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:04:21 -0400
Reply-To:     bobwb@channel1.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Robert Burkhardt <bobwb@CHANNEL1.COM>
Organization: Tensegrity Solutions
Subject:      Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It sort of reminds me of TRICAP 16/STONE 16 from Tetrascroll that talks about
Vikings overturning their boats to make houses etc.  There are other quotes
where
Bucky talks about naval ships and the stresses they can withstand.  This
certainly
doesn't seem to be a direct quote though it would seem to draw strongly
from Fuller's writings.

Bob

Joe S Moore wrote:

> Dear Robert,
>
> Try as I might, I can't locate that quote. It could be in an article or some
> audio or video tape.  But I'm sure Bucky said it or something like it.  It
> sounds so like him.  I even looked in the 'Synergetics Dictionary', but no
> luck.  Sorry.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Bringhurst" <RBringhurst@compuserve.com>
> To: "Joe Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 3:13 PM
> Subject: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
>
> > Dear Mr Moore,
> >
> > I am assured that you know more than almost anyone
> > else about the work of Buckminster Fuller. I wonder if
> > you can help me find something in his work.
> >
> > I am editing the selected writings of the Native Canadian artist
> > Bill Reid, who died two years ago. Among his papers is the
> > text of a lecture he gave on Native American dugout canoes.
> > He credits Buckminster Fuller with an important idea on this
> > theme, and I am attempting to find the source in Fuller's
> > writings.
> >         The passage in question, reads as follows:
> >
> > >> Buckminster Fuller may well have been right when he said
> > that the beginnings of design are found in the early work of those
> > who lived by and of the sea. For it is possible to build some kind
> > of structure merely by piling pieces of debris on top of one another
> > until you get something you can use, no matter how clumsy it may
> > be, provided you build it on land. But when you decide to go to sea,
> > you discover very soon that you have to contend with factors such
> > as weight to volume relationships, width to length ratios, relations
> > of strength to thickness, depth and shape to stability. And that's
> > only the beginning. You have to consider the nature of materials, to
> > invent the tools to effect their transformation so they can be used.
> > You have to consider means of propulsion and navigation: how to
> > get from here to there and back again without getting lost. <<
> >
> > I do not know whether some or all of this may be direct quotation
> > from Fuller. But in looking through his books, I have not yet found
> > a passage in which this idea is really raised. Watercraft are mentioned
> > very frequently, of course, but I have not yet found a passage where
> > Fuller says more or less explicitly "that the beginnings of design are
> > found in the early work of those who lived by and of the sea."
> > Do you know where I might find this theme in Fuller's work, or can you
> > suggest someone else who might know that work well enough to help me?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Robert Bringhurst
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Jul 2000 18:25:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic accounting part deux
In-Reply-To:  <000c01bfe39e$4c777ba0$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:52 PM 07/01/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I've started this web
page about cosmic accounting.
<<http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html>http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Any or all comments or
suggestions would be appreciated, even for the title of the page. And if
someone(s) could check my math I would appreciated that too. I'd also
like to post my desert water dome page from years back.

</smaller></fontfamily>

</excerpt><<<<<<<<


I don't think those assumptions are necessary:  earth as

disk pointed at sun 24 hours.  We should be able to think

of something a little more common sensical.


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:14:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic accounting part deux
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFE390.8F0309C0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFE390.8F0309C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark,

There may be something of help on this web page.  Scroll down to =
"Accounting":

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/A-Ac.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: marksomers=20
  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 1:52 PM
  Subject: cosmic accounting part deux


  I've started this web page about cosmic accounting. =
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html
  =20
  Any or all comments or suggestions would be appreciated, even for the =
title of the page. And if someone(s) could check my math I would =
appreciated that too. I'd also like to post my desert water dome page =
from years back.
  =20
   http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html

  Thanks

  Mark



------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFE390.8F0309C0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><EM><STRONG>Mark,</STRONG></EM></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><STRONG>There may be something of help on this web page.&nbsp; =
Scroll=20
down to "Accounting":</STRONG></EM></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/A-Ac.htm"><EM><STRONG>http:=
//www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/A-Ac.htm</STRONG></EM></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><BR><EM><STRONG>Joe S Moore<FONT color=3D#0000ff>:=20
</FONT></STRONG></EM><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><EM><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRO=
NG></EM></A><BR><EM><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute: </STRONG></EM><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><EM><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</STRONG></FONT><=
/EM></A><BR><STRONG><EM>&nbsp;</EM></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM"=20
  title=3Dmarksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>marksomers</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B> =
bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU"=20
  =
title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO=
.EDU</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 01, 2000 =
1:52=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> cosmic accounting part =

deux</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've&nbsp;started this web page about =
cosmic=20
  accounting. <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html">htt=
p://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html</A></FONT></DIV=
>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any or all comments or suggestions =
would be=20
  appreciated, even for the title of the page. And if someone(s) could =
check my=20
  math I would appreciated that too. I'd also like to post my desert =
water dome=20
  page from years back.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html">http://ww=
w.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html</A></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFE390.8F0309C0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 08:56:17 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic accounting part deux
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Mark- Bravo.  I like people to make forward, positive
actions toward utopia. The simplier you make it, the
more people you will reach.
Dick
--- marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM> wrote:
> I've started this web page about cosmic accounting.
>
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html
>
> Any or all comments or suggestions would be
> appreciated, even for the title of the page. And if
> someone(s) could check my math I would appreciated
> that too. I'd also like to post my desert water dome
> page from years back.
>
>
>
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/desertdome.html
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
>
>
>


=====
Dick FischbeckHubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\\There are no bad kids!!>Do your own thinking.     UTOPIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 10:47:40 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      cosmic part deux revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFE412.F1D86C20"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFE412.F1D86C20
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Dick for the encouragement.

Thanks Joe, I'll have to look up those references you gave me when I get =
home.=20

Kirby do you think an illustration would help? Or do you mean the final =
number as being way too ungraspable? Also the number is in watts per =
second not watts per hour. =20

Here's some more data I'm going to put somewhere on the page. Average =
price of one kilowatt hour of electricity: 7 cents.  The amount of power =
now being produced by wind power machines world wide is 13,400 megawatts =
with 3,600 megawatts just added in 1999. As a note: wind is gaining =
worldwide at a faster rate than any other power production method and on =
average wind machines produce at a cost of about 3 cents per kilowatt =
hour. =20

Now I'm thinking the wind power megawatts should be subtracted from the =
cosmic energy income, to demonstrate that some of the cosmic energy =
income is being utilized.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFE412.F1D86C20
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks, Dick for the =
encouragement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks Joe, I'll have to look up those =
references=20
you gave me when I get home. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kirby do you think an illustration =
would help? Or=20
do you mean the final number as being way too ungraspable? Also the =
number is in=20
watts per second not watts per hour.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here's some more data I'm going to put =
somewhere on=20
the page. Average price of one kilowatt hour of electricity: 7 =
cents.&nbsp; The=20
amount of power now being produced by wind power machines world wide is =
13,400=20
megawatts with 3,600 megawatts just added in 1999. As a note: wind is =
gaining=20
worldwide at a faster rate than any other power production method and on =
average=20
wind machines produce at a cost of about 3 cents per kilowatt hour. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now I'm thinking the wind power =
megawatts should be=20
subtracted from the cosmic energy income, to demonstrate that some of =
the cosmic=20
energy income is being utilized. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFE412.F1D86C20--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:52:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic part deux revisited
In-Reply-To:  <001401bfe445$3d54b0a0$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:47 AM 07/02/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Thanks, Dick for the
encouragement.

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Thanks Joe, I'll have to look up
those references you gave me when I get home.

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Kirby do you think an
illustration would help? Or do you mean the final number as being way too
ungraspable? Also the number is in watts per second not watts per hour.

</smaller></fontfamily></excerpt><<<<<<<<


I'm thinking maybe you should get 1/2 the earth's total surface

area and multiply that by watts per square mile -- something

like that.


Of course this is planetary income.  Humans just use a tiny

fraction of it directly.  A lot of the energy drives weather

systems -- so humans are impacted precessionally.


http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/gst3.html has some of the same

ideas, but I don't supply a computation.  Have you checked

other sites?


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 11:01:55 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - China speeds up development
              of nation-wide
Comments: cc: "Meisen, Peter" <petermeisen@cs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFE414.EF50EC00"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFE414.EF50EC00
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

China speeds up development of nation-wide power grid

 http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts01799.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFE414.EF50EC00
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - China speeds up development of nation-wide power grid.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - China speeds up development of nation-wide power grid.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts01799.htm

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts01799.htm
Modified=20E9506A4FE4BF01B6

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFE414.EF50EC00--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 11:14:22 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Asean power grid and
              Trans-Asean gas pipeli
Comments: To: "Meisen, Peter" <petermeisen@cs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE416.ACD1B060"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE416.ACD1B060
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Asean power grid

 http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts95093.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE416.ACD1B060
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Asean power grid and Trans-Asean gas pipeline offer great opportunities.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Asean power grid and Trans-Asean gas pipeline offer great opportunities.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts95093.htm

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts95093.htm
Modified=A0ECD03251E4BF0183

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE416.ACD1B060--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 11:20:12 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Dhaka to support SAARC power
              grid
Comments: cc: "Meisen, Peter" <petermeisen@cs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE417.7D6C6620"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE417.7D6C6620
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dhaka to support SAARC power grid

 http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts84080.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE417.7D6C6620
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Dhaka to support SAARC power grid.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Dhaka to support SAARC power grid.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts84080.htm

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts84080.htm
Modified=20686C0E52E4BF01F8

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE417.7D6C6620--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 11:21:40 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - UAE signs deal to set up
              common power grid
Comments: cc: "Meisen, Peter" <petermeisen@cs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFE417.B1D6FA60"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFE417.B1D6FA60
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

UAE signs deal to set up common power grid

 http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntm70201.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFE417.B1D6FA60
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - UAE signs deal to set up common power grid.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - UAE signs deal to set up common power grid.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntm70201.htm

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntm70201.htm
Modified=006B474652E4BF01EE

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFE417.B1D6FA60--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 11:24:10 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Central America agrees to
              link power grids
Comments: cc: "Meisen, Peter" <petermeisen@cs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE418.0B146FE0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE418.0B146FE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Central America agrees to link power grids

 http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntl70202.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE418.0B146FE0
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Central America agrees to link power grids.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections - Central America agrees to link power grids.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntl70202.htm

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntl70202.htm
Modified=60F01BA052E4BF0101

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE418.0B146FE0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:09:30 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      cosmic redo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFE437.85E6E8A0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFE437.85E6E8A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK how about this..

 http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html

I used a spherical surface equation instead.=20

I came up with an hourly income per person (for every person on the =
planet) of some 6 million per hour. 24 hours a day.

Not bad pay if you can get it.=20

Mark



------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFE437.85E6E8A0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OK how about this..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html">htt=
p://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html</A></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I used a spherical surface equation =
instead.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I came up with an hourly income per =
person (for=20
every person on the planet) of some 6 million per hour. 24 hours a=20
day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not bad pay if you can get it. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFE437.85E6E8A0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:03:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Mark-  Have you seen this site?
Dick
http://www.worldgame.org/worldometers/worldfuel.html

--- marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM> wrote:
> OK how about this..
>
>
>
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html
>
> I used a spherical surface equation instead.
>
> I came up with an hourly income per person (for
> every person on the planet) of some 6 million per
> hour. 24 hours a day.
>
> Not bad pay if you can get it.
>
> Mark
>
>
>

=====
Dick FischbeckHubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\\There are no bad kids!!>Do your own thinking.     UTOPIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Jul 2000 00:05:42 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Wealth
In-Reply-To:  <004001bfdfcb$5edf2260$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mark Somers writes: "On a daily basis if not hourly the whole planet is
being wired with a revolutionary information system. How much is the
information worth? How much is the system costing?"

I don't know how to measure its value but I see this world-wide development
of an information technology neural network as humanity's most amazing
creation of wealth and the beginning of a truly open and rational form of
civilization--one based on knowledge and cooperation rather than central
government authority and physical (brute) force. The planet is evolving a
central nervous system today and intelligent action will someday follow.

Here is an excerpt from the Gutenberg Project web site, which is dedicated
to the world wide dissemination of public domain documents for the benefit
of all.  http://www.promo.net/pg/history.html

  The premise on which Michael Hart based Project Gutenberg was: anything
  that can be entered into a computer can be reproduced indefinitely. . .
  what Michael termed "Replicator Technology" The concept of Replicator
  Technology is simple; once a book or any other item (including pictures,
  sounds, and even 3-D items can be stored in a computer), then any number
  of copies can and will be available. Everyone in the world, or even not
  in this world (given satellite transmission) can have a copy of a book
  that has been entered into a computer.

These folks have figured a commonwealth LOSS of $50 Quadrillion due to US
copyright law changes which restricts free publication of texts for another
20 years. Here is a link: http://www.promo.net/pg/cplea97/index.html

  We have been warning you for some time that a million books would be kept
  under copyright when they should have gone to the Public Domain under the
  provisions of the copyright law under which they were copyrighted.

  This is a breach of the copyright contract between a public and the
  government purporting to be supporting the "general welfare" of that
  public.

  Governments SAY they promote literacy and education for the masses, but
  these bills would remove a million books from a quarter of a billion
  people, in the US alone.

  That is a total of a quarter of a quadrillion books that are now illegal
  to copy. Even if you value lifetime book access to each of these books at
  only a penny, the loss for the US public is $2,500,000,000,000 [$2.5
  Trillion] or if you count a book at it's "street value" of $10, this would
  equal a sum of $2,500,000,000,000,000 [$2.5 Quadrillion]. If you aren't so
  localized in your interests, and were willing to consider the rest of the
  world, you have to consider that the US only contains less than 5% of the
  world's population; so on world wide interest levels, every time copyrights
  were extended 20 years and a million books were kept out of the Public
  Domain.

  The total loss to the world was:
  20 times $2.5 Quadrillion or $50 Quadrillion
  [at a "street value" of $10 per book per human lifetime.]

And this is just the tip of the iceberg when you consider the many other
life sustaining values created by our emerging information technology.

Cheers,
Dexter
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Jul 2000 00:05:45 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Black lung deaths and WWII (was RE: Spanish flu 1914)
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000627083247.03534534@pop.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mark Somers wrote: "400,000 US servicemen died during ww2."

Kirby wrote: "according to Nader's speech, more Americans died
of black lung from coal mine work that USA soldiers in WWII.
That'd be an interesting stat to pin down in more detail."


Here is a chart which shows around 2500 deaths from black lung
disease per year on average in the U.S. during the 1970s and 80s.
http://www.courier-journal.com/dust/illo_lungdeaths.html

Even if you figure that conditions were twice as bad in the
1940s (that's 5000 deaths per year) you only get 20,000 deaths
during the 4 years of the war (1941-1945).

However, if you figure 2500 deaths per year since 1940 you get
(2500 x 60 years) 150,000 deaths. Still not enough.

Let's take 400,000 and divide it by 2,500 to see how many years
Nader was considering. 160 years. That would be 1840. So it
seems reasonable to say that more people have died in all of
U.S. history from black lung disease than died in World War II.


Another interesting comparison using the lower recent rates:
http://www.courier-journal.com/dust/index.html
"Every year, black lung disease kills almost 1,500 people who
have worked in the nation's coal mines. It's as if the Titanic
sank every year, and no ships came to the rescue. While that
long-ago disaster continues to fascinate the nation, the miners
slip into cold, early graves almost unnoticed."

See ya,
Dexter
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Jul 2000 19:15:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      eBay item 373643889 (Ends Jul-08-00 155555 PDT) - Geodesic
              Buckminster FULLER m
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFE5EC.325D96A0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFE5EC.325D96A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Great b&w pic of Bucky on Ebay:

 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=373643889

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFE5EC.325D96A0
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="eBay item 373643889 (Ends Jul-08-00 155555 PDT) - Geodesic Buckminster FULLER matted portrait.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="eBay item 373643889 (Ends Jul-08-00 155555 PDT) - Geodesic Buckminster FULLER matted portrait.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=373643889

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=373643889
Modified=C025F2B326E6BF0156

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFE5EC.325D96A0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Jul 2000 19:41:33 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Amazon.com - Query Results
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE5EF.DB9FF160"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE5EF.DB9FF160
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Used Bucky books (12) available thru Amazon.com:

 http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-form/102-5612585-9935267

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE5EF.DB9FF160
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="Amazon.com - Query Results.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Amazon.com - Query Results.url"

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=3Dhttp://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-form/102-5612585=
-9935267

[InternetShortcut]
URL=3Dhttp://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-form/102-5612585-993=
5267
Modified=3DA07425622AE6BF016B

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE5EF.DB9FF160--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Jul 2000 21:17:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bucky_Fuller's_Manhattan_Dome?=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE5FD.3C8E2B60"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE5FD.3C8E2B60
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MSNBC story about Bucky's Manhattan Dome:

 http://www.msnbc.com/news/425893.asp?0na=22014E0-

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/


------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE5FD.3C8E2B60
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
        name="=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bucky_Fuller's_Manhattan_Dome.url?="
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bucky_Fuller's_Manhattan_Dome.url?="

[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.msnbc.com/news/425893.asp?0na=22014E0-

[DOC#370]
BASEURL=about:blank

[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.msnbc.com/news/425893.asp?0na=22014E0-
Modified=A0F564B737E6BF018D

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE5FD.3C8E2B60--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 09:40:00 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael <sunwind@WEB.NET>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Dear Mark -
<p>Maybe I'm missing something here, but wouldn't the energy arriving at
Earth's upper atmosphere be travelling in (approximately) straight lines,
and wouldn't the share of energy of the daylit half of the sphere be better
calculated using the area of the disk shape presented to the Sun, rather
than half the sphere's surface?
<p>Michael
<p>Oh, I should introduce myself. Michael Cooke. Have been lurking since
the&nbsp; solstice. Actually joined the list while looking for recent information
about geoscopes.
<p>sunwind@web.net
<br><a href="http://www.sunwindsolar.com">http://www.sunwindsolar.com</a>
<p>marksomers wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>OK
how about this..</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1> <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html">http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html</a>I
used a spherical surface equation instead.I came up with an hourly income
per person (for every person on the planet) of some 6 million per hour.
24 hours a day.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Not bad
pay if you can get it.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Mark</font></font></blockquote>

<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
</body>
</html>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:57:14 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re cosmic redo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE680.8A846CC0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE680.8A846CC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Michaels message =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mark -=20
Maybe I'm missing something here, but wouldn't the energy arriving at =
Earth's upper atmosphere be travelling in (approximately) straight =
lines, and wouldn't the share of energy of the daylit half of the sphere =
be better calculated using the area of the disk shape presented to the =
Sun, rather than half the sphere's surface?=20

Michael=20

Oh, I should introduce myself. Michael Cooke. Have been lurking since =
the  solstice. Actually joined the list while looking for recent =
information about geoscopes.=20

sunwind@web.net=20
http://www.sunwindsolar.com=20

marksomers wrote:=20

  OK how about this..  =
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.htmlI used a =
spherical surface equation instead.I came up with an hourly income per =
person (for every person on the planet) of some 6 million per hour. 24 =
hours a day. Not bad pay if you can get it. Mark
My =
reply--------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------

I first used an equation that used the disc idea, then Kirby suggested I =
use an equation that used one half of a sphere.=20

Here's my problem with both equations. With the disc I thought it might =
be too little and with the half sphere I think it's too much, I lean =
towards the disc calculation myself.=20

The area of one half the sphere is twice that of the disc. The proper =
way to calculate it would be ( according to the literature at NASA) to =
multiple the 1367.6 watts by the cosine of the angle created between the =
zenith and where one is making the measurement on the surface of the =
Earth (sphere). There's probably a nice little integration formula =
around to do that and I bet the answer will be closer to the disc answer =
than the half sphere answer.  Also the rays coming from the sun that =
strike the Earth are practically parallel to one another.

thanks,=20

Mark  =20


 =20
 =20

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE680.8A846CC0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michaels message=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Mark - </DIV>
<P>Maybe I'm missing something here, but wouldn't the energy arriving at =
Earth's=20
upper atmosphere be travelling in (approximately) straight lines, and =
wouldn't=20
the share of energy of the daylit half of the sphere be better =
calculated using=20
the area of the disk shape presented to the Sun, rather than half the =
sphere's=20
surface?=20
<P>Michael=20
<P>Oh, I should introduce myself. Michael Cooke. Have been lurking since =

the&nbsp; solstice. Actually joined the list while looking for recent=20
information about geoscopes.=20
<P>sunwind@web.net <BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sunwindsolar.com">http://www.sunwindsolar.com</A>=20
<P>marksomers wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">
  <DIV>
  <STYLE></STYLE>
  <FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>OK how about =
this..</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT=20
  face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1> <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html">htt=
p://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html</A>I=20
  used a spherical surface equation instead.I came up with an hourly =
income per=20
  person (for every person on the planet) of some 6 million per hour. 24 =
hours a=20
  day.</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Not bad pay if =
you can get=20
  it.</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
size=3D-1>Mark</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>My=20
reply--------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I first used an equation that used the disc idea, then Kirby =
suggested I=20
use an equation that used one half of a sphere. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Here's my problem with both equations. With the disc I thought it =
might be=20
too little and with the half sphere I think it's too much, I lean =
towards the=20
disc calculation myself. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The area of one half the sphere is twice that of the disc. =
The&nbsp;proper=20
way to calculate it would be&nbsp;( according to the literature at NASA) =
to=20
multiple the&nbsp;1367.6 watts by the cosine of the angle created =
between the=20
zenith and where one is making the measurement on the surface of the =
Earth=20
(sphere). There's probably a nice little integration formula around to =
do that=20
and I bet the answer will be closer to the disc answer than the half =
sphere=20
answer. &nbsp;Also the rays coming from the sun that strike the Earth =
are=20
practically parallel to one another.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>thanks,&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mark &nbsp; <BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp; </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE680.8A846CC0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 14:39:13 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Black lung deaths and WWII (was RE: Spanish flu 1914)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 1:05 AM
Subject: Black lung deaths and WWII (was RE: Spanish flu 1914)


> Mark Somers wrote: "400,000 US servicemen died during ww2."
>
> Kirby wrote: "according to Nader's speech, more Americans died
> of black lung from coal mine work that USA soldiers in WWII.
> That'd be an interesting stat to pin down in more detail."
>
>
> Here is a chart which shows around 2500 deaths from black lung
> disease per year on average in the U.S. during the 1970s and 80s.
> http://www.courier-journal.com/dust/illo_lungdeaths.html
>
> Even if you figure that conditions were twice as bad in the
> 1940s (that's 5000 deaths per year) you only get 20,000 deaths
> during the 4 years of the war (1941-1945).
>
> However, if you figure 2500 deaths per year since 1940 you get
> (2500 x 60 years) 150,000 deaths. Still not enough.
>
> Let's take 400,000 and divide it by 2,500 to see how many years
> Nader was considering. 160 years. That would be 1840. So it
> seems reasonable to say that more people have died in all of
> U.S. history from black lung disease than died in World War II.
>
>
> Another interesting comparison using the lower recent rates:
> http://www.courier-journal.com/dust/index.html
> "Every year, black lung disease kills almost 1,500 people who
> have worked in the nation's coal mines. It's as if the Titanic
> sank every year, and no ships came to the rescue. While that
> long-ago disaster continues to fascinate the nation, the miners
> slip into cold, early graves almost unnoticed."
>
> See ya,
> Dexter
>

I listened to Nader's green party acceptance speech an in it he pointed out
that more Americans died in the last 110 years from black lung and mine
collapses together than Americans died in ww2.
Also the date of the Spanish flu epidemic was 1918 not the 1914 date that I
published here before.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 06:40:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   05-JUL-2000  6:40
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 well, yes; good observation, and I think that
 the other guy was almost "getting" that:
 "incoming" is just the cut-out of the light,
 that is the apparent disk that you'd see,
 if you were looking at it from Sun --
 the angular field (?).  for the first approximation, because
 clouds effect it, a lot, and so on.
    looking from sunside, fully illumined,
 at least if a simple, neutral "cue-ball,"
 it'd look equelly bright to the edge
 (more oblique, but more surface).

 thus quoth:
  lines, and wouldn't the share of energy of the daylit half of the sphere
 =
  be better calculated using the area of the disk shape presented to the =

 --Get George!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 06:53:17 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Wealth

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   05-JUL-2000  6:53
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 you folks don't shy-away from utopian world empire,
 one bit, I see!
    it'd take quite a lot of more argument, now,
 to convince me that Benjamin Franklin was completely bass-
 ackwards in hi promotion of patenting, or copyright.  as you know,
 "fair use" gives quite a lot of leeway for quotation, and
 one is always free to put others' ideas in one's own way --
 if you grok them (unlike Descartes' obvious rip-off
 of Snell's law; the diagram has a bad kink in it,
 that could only come from having misgrokked the idea).

 thus quoth:
    The premise on which Michael Hart based Project Gutenberg was: anything
    that can be entered into a computer can be reproduced indefinitely. . .

 this is a rather utopian idea, in itself.  one does not
 have to believe that the Market is All,
 as per the Haileyboro College doctrine of Adam Smith
 --the feudal Physiocrats' laissez-faire, laissez-passe--
 to wish for the benefits of free neterprize; eh?
    effectively, "books" cannot exist "out there,"
 as per Chicago U's old "100 Best Books" propoganda,
 no matter what the potential benefits of "education automatons"
 or Project Gutenberg.  that is the need for a classsical curriculum,
 and the need for a republican form of governance --
 not your empire, Sir!

 --Get George!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 07:16:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Wealth

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   05-JUL-2000  7:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 here are 2 contrasting citations, re education:

 Classical ed.?...
 Http://www.larouchecampaign.com/pdfs/BW2322.Education.pdf.
 Education Automation?...
 Times, September 7, 1998, "Wizard Reinvents Himself".

 --Get Sir George!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 18:46:17 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFE6B1.4DB3EBA0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFE6B1.4DB3EBA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Michael,

Scroll down to "Geoscope" on this web page:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Geop-Gk.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Michael=20
  Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
  To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU=20
  Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 9:40 AM
  Subject: Re: cosmic redo

  (snip)
  Oh, I should introduce myself. Michael Cooke. Have been lurking since =
the  solstice. Actually joined the list while looking for recent =
information about geoscopes.=20

  sunwind@web.net=20
  http://www.sunwindsolar.com=20


------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFE6B1.4DB3EBA0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffff00>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Michael,</STRONG></FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Scroll down to "Geoscope" on this web=20
page:</STRONG></FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Geop-Gk.htm"><EM><FONT=20
size=3D4><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Geop-Gk.htm</STRON=
G></FONT></EM></A></DIV>
<DIV><BR><EM><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>Joe S Moore: </STRONG></FONT></EM><A =

href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><EM><FONT=20
size=3D4><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG></FONT></EM></A><BR><EM><FON=
T=20
size=3D4><STRONG>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: =
</STRONG></FONT></EM><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><FONT=20
size=3D4><STRONG><EM>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</EM></STRONG></FONT=
></A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:sunwind@WEB.NET" title=3Dsunwind@WEB.NET>Michael</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Newsgroups:</B> =
bit.listserv.geodesic</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU"=20
  =
title=3DGEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO=
.EDU</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 05, 2000 =
9:40=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: cosmic redo</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>(snip)</FONT></DIV>
  <P>Oh, I should introduce myself. Michael Cooke. Have been lurking =
since=20
  the&nbsp; solstice. Actually joined the list while looking for recent=20
  information about geoscopes.=20
  <P>sunwind@web.net <BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.sunwindsolar.com">http://www.sunwindsolar.com</A>=20
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFE6B1.4DB3EBA0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 13:46:08 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Wealth

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   05-JUL-2000 13:46
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I never liked Benji, that much, anyway.  so,
 smarty-pants, when are you going to give-away *all*
 of your patents?????

 just say, Doh!
    and, it just goes to show the anti-Lockean,
 anti-Newtonian roots of our republic:
 not "life, liberty and property," but
 "and the purfuit of happineff" !!!

 God save the Queen -- we mean it. Man!

 --Get Sir George!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

 htus quoth:
  Just to set the historical record straight, Franlkin refused to patent his
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Jul 2000 22:31:46 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Wealth
In-Reply-To:  <200007052046.e65Kk8I27505@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:46 PM 07/05/2000 -0700, you wrote:
><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   05-JUL-2000 13:46
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> I never liked Benji, that much, anyway.  so,

You sure know how to pick 'em.  Nothing like having
a lot of friends at the end of the day.  Glad you've
got a rubric to steer by.

Kirby

(not Brian's friend)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:10:12 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Key Dome
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mel,

This is what I have as of March 2000:

Key Dome Engineering
PO Box 430253
(South?) Miami, FL 33143
305-233-9000

Alternate address:
PO Box 97049
Miami, FL 33197

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <rowley@looknfeel.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 7:21 AM
Subject: Fw: Key Dome


> Date:        7/6/00 11:58 PM
> From:        Mel Landers, mland@hitter.net
>
> I sent this before but didn't get any replys so will try again.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mel Landers <mland@hitter.net>
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 4:39 PM
> Subject: Key Dome
> >
> > Several years ago I bought a set of plans for a Wokey 20 dome and an
> > instruction book on how to build a 40 and 32 foot dome called a Key Dome
> > from a Mr. Peter M. Vanderklaauw A.I.A. in Miami.  I have tried to get
in
> > touch with him to purchase the plans for the 40 Ft dome but No one knows
> > where he is. I was told he sold out to American Ingenuity. I like the
> > American Ingenuity Dome but I don't like the thought of lifting those
> > heavy panels in place. With the Key Doom you build the dome with
> > Polystyrene and then put the concrete on. If anyone knows how to get in
> > touch with him please let me know.
> >
> >     Thanks Mel >
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:16:33 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Universal Hub for "Stick" Dome
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

John,

Scroll down to "Connectors" on this web page:

http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Domes-C.htm

I hope this is of some help.

PS: Do you have a web site that we could look at? (Geodesics Unlimited)

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <rowley@looknfeel.com>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 7:23 AM
Subject: Universal Hub for "Stick" Dome


> Date:        7/7/00 4:28 AM
> From:        John Moon, john_moon@geodesics-unlimited.com
>
> I have been award a grant by the UK Department of Trade and Industry to
> develop a prototype geodesic marquee.  This will be to a 10m diameter
> design
> of mine.  It is a single layer structure with aluminium struts and a pvc
> or canvas cover.
>
> The grant gives me up to £10,000, £1 for £1, as I contribute a like sum.
>
> I'm looking at developing as near a universal hub for this as is possible.
> I've come up with a variety of possibilities, none of which is yet fully
> satisfactory.  What is needed is a hub, which allows four, five or six
> struts to attach to it from varied angles, and which, when (easily)
> assembled is a fairly tightly assembled unit.
>
> If there's anyone out there who has any ideas and would like them
> developed,
> I'd be very pleased to hear from you.  While the grant is intended for
> innovatory technology and hopes that the designs are registerable and/or
> patentable, this can be more or less loosely enforced, really depending on
> the will of the owners of the protection, ie. you and maybe me.
>
> Looking forward to hearing from you, either via the list or personally.
>
> John Moon,
> Geodesics Unlimited.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:10:38 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      ELECTRON SHELLS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For a new model of the electron shells (concentric icosas)
and the formula (20F^2)/10 for the number of electrons in a shell see:

http://www1.50megs.com/polytope/websyn.txt

I think Mr Styles & company have made a MAJOR contribution to Synergetics.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:51:34 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Lee Bonnifield <lee@PLANETC.COM>
Subject:      mass ratio of proton to electron
Comments: To: vectorequilibrium@hotmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>For a new model of the electron shells (concentric icosas)
>and the formula (20F^2)/10 for the number of electrons in a shell see:

http://www1.50megs.com/polytope/websyn.txt

Somebody please explain this inconsistency to me. The URL above includes
the statement:

"a unit volume tetrahedron (a tetrahedron is a 4 sided figure with each
face being an equilateral triangle) to a number of close packed rhombic
dodecahedra was quite close to the mass ratio of an electron to a
proton. "


What do you think that mass ratio is?

Bucky states the ratio correctly in Synergetics at 419.30  as 1 :  1836
(and elsewhere, like 433.02 , 986.519 , 986.582 )


It appears to me that Bucky gets it wrong at

458.04 "...the mass of the electron is approximately one over 18.51 in
respect to the mass of the neutron."

(The neutron is slightly more massive than the proton; the mass of the
electron is actually approximately one over 1839 in respect to the mass
of the neutron.)

and at

1052.41     "...the electron, whose mass relationship to the proton is
as 1 : 18.51 ..."

(should be  1 : 1836 )

and at 1055.06 .

I do not see how   18.51 : 20   suggests  1836 : 1 .
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:17:04 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dick,

I checked out the World game site, right after I created the web page. I
like the world o meter that shows "students asleep in class" : ) I noticed
they have their outputs in coal mass units. I will have to ask them what
equation or math model they're using to output the data they show for solar
energy. I found this site very useful but also as of now it's not
connecting.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/

They use btu(s) as their energy unit of choice, except I noticed they use
kilowatts for their nuclear info. And I also noticed they have a footnote on
one of their charts explaining that hydroelectric power on their chart isn't
included in solar output. I find it interesting that they put that footnote
there.

Mark


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: cosmic redo


> Mark-  Have you seen this site?
> Dick
> http://www.worldgame.org/worldometers/worldfuel.html
>
> --- marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM> wrote:
> > OK how about this..
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html
> >
> > I used a spherical surface equation instead.
> >
> > I came up with an hourly income per person (for
> > every person on the planet) of some 6 million per
> > hour. 24 hours a day.
> >
> > Not bad pay if you can get it.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
> Dick
FischbeckHubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\\There
are no bad kids!!>Do your own thinking.     UTOPIA
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:55:46 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: ELECTRON SHELLS
In-Reply-To:  <000501bfe83e$aaf40b40$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I think Mr Styles & company have made a MAJOR contribution
>to Synergetics.

I've registered skepticism in this regard over on Synergeo
but that's all water under the bridge at this point.

Note that the idea of using a rhombic dodecahedron for a
nucleon predates the publication of Fuller's 'Synergetics'
by the way.  Ken Snelson sent me something from the patent
office -- will have to dig for the picture.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 8 Jul 2000 07:33:39 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: ELECTRON SHELLS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kirby,

I agree with your comments re the RD and the nucleus.  What caught my eye
was his model and formula for the electron shells.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Urner" <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: ELECTRON SHELLS


> >I think Mr Styles & company have made a MAJOR contribution
> >to Synergetics.
>
> I've registered skepticism in this regard over on Synergeo
> but that's all water under the bridge at this point.
>
> Note that the idea of using a rhombic dodecahedron for a
> nucleon predates the publication of Fuller's 'Synergetics'
> by the way.  Ken Snelson sent me something from the patent
> office -- will have to dig for the picture.
>
> Kirby
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 8 Jul 2000 08:03:31 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: ELECTRON SHELLS
In-Reply-To:  <002f01bfe8e9$83400c60$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:33 AM 07/08/2000 -0700, Joe S Moore wrote:
>Kirby,
>
>I agree with your comments re the RD and the nucleus.  What caught my eye
>was his model and formula for the electron shells.
>
>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

OK.

Not all scientists are closed minded by any means, and if
synergetics has anything that they can use to advance their
careers as atomic theorists, they're definitely in a mode
to use it.  We shall see.  Visualization of atomics has
already made a come back, thanks to advances in
instrumentation and computer modeling.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 8 Jul 2000 08:54:05 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
In-Reply-To:  <001f01bfe871$d9038be0$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Mark --

I plan to link to your cosmic redo, plus the relevant WGI
Worldometer page from my http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/gst3.html
in the near future.

Along the same lines, you might be interested in
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/motherboard.html -- a view
of banking from the standpoint of Earth, Inc. as grant
recipient from sponsor-sun.

http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/gstuniv.html spells out
some of the same thinking, basically:

           Assets               Liabilities
        ===================================================
                         |
           intelligence  |      brain: obsolete reflexes
                         |      unnecessary suffering
                         |
           energy income |      energy expenses
           (incl solar)  |
                         | ----------------------
                         |      net species IQ
                         |     (ability to sustainably
                         |      coordinate its affairs
                         |      with cosmos)


           Species IQ = Assets - Liabilities

If you turn Assets and Net/Liabilities sideways, it looks
more like:


    principles     eternal   angle      mind
   -------------------------------------------
    specialcases   temporal  frequency  brain

Note that the "below the line" stuff isn't all liabilities:
our net enjoyment of being humans is there too (no special
case energy events = no experience = no mortal life as we
know it).  Kinda that nirvana = samsara thing (Zen).[1]

Kirby

[1] related post:
    http://www.egroups.com/message/synergeo/1289
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 8 Jul 2000 08:57:08 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: ELECTRON SHELLS
In-Reply-To:  <002f01bfe8e9$83400c60$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:33 AM 07/08/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Kirby,
>
>I agree with your comments re the RD and the nucleus.  What caught my eye
>was his model and formula for the electron shells.

If I recall, the electron formula was just 10 ff + 2 again, yes?
Since protons and electrons roughly correspond in number (when
all valencies occupied), it makes sense to recycle 10 ff + 2 for
electrons IF you find it useful for protons.

As I recall, the paper in question failed to go much further
than Fuller's initial explorations.  Since the currently
accepted atomic theory already has many satisfying equations,
part of the problem is no one cares about "cosmetics" i.e.
how exactly we draw nucleons (spheres or dodecas -- like
what's the experimental basis for caring one way or the
other?).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jul 2000 12:11:04 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000708085405.00900b80@pop.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
>            Assets               Liabilities
>         ===================================================
>                          |
>            intelligence  |      brain: obsolete reflexes
>                          |      unnecessary suffering
>                          |
>            energy income |      energy expenses
>            (incl solar)  |
>                          | ----------------------
>                          |      net species IQ
>                          |     (ability to sustainably
>                          |      coordinate its affairs
>                          |      with cosmos)
>
>
>            Species IQ = Assets - Liabilities
>
> If you turn Assets and Net/Liabilities sideways, it looks
> more like:
>
>
>     principles     eternal   angle      mind
>    -------------------------------------------
>     specialcases   temporal  frequency  brain
>
> Note that the "below the line" stuff isn't all liabilities:
> our net enjoyment of being humans is there too (no special
> case energy events = no experience = no mortal life as we
> know it).  Kinda that nirvana = samsara thing (Zen).[1]
>
> Kirby
>
> [1] related post:
>     http://www.egroups.com/message/synergeo/1289
>

Kirby,

There must be some value to special case experiences beyond personal
enjoyment or else the universe would exist exclusively in pure principle?

Dexter

PS: I am reading the links to the other lists and articles you provided.
It all seems very interesting to me. Thank you very much for sharing them.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jul 2000 15:15:08 PDT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Quincy Hutchings <brian_quincy_hutchings@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

cosmic hairdo?
   I don't think, "exclusively" is the operative term, herein, unless
the meaning is taken as "always and only," or
the proof-makers "iff" (short-hand,
for the "neccesity and sufficiency" of Leibniz,
who thus defined it .-)

thus quoth:
There must be some value to special case experiences beyond personal
enjoyment or else the universe would exist exclusively in pure principle?


----
¿Three generations of Skull and Bones -- GOT BUSH?...
Http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
¿Got "Education Automation" ??...
Times, Sept.7, 1998, "Wizard Reinvents Himself".
¿Got "Classical" education?...
Http://www.larouchecampaign.com/pdfs/BW2322.Education.pdf.
¡Belmont High Lives -- if Guv Roy Does!

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jul 2000 16:20:53 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOCEMHDHAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Kirby,
>
>There must be some value to special case experiences beyond personal
>enjoyment or else the universe would exist exclusively in pure principle?
>
>Dexter
>
>PS: I am reading the links to the other lists and articles you provided.
>It all seems very interesting to me. Thank you very much for sharing them.
>

Not sure it makes sense at all to speak/think of principles
minus some expression thereof.  If it weren't for the special
cases, there'd be nothing by which the principles could test
and know themselves.  I suppose you might say the special
cases are the laboratory for principled examination of
principles (or not so principled, as the case may be).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:11:13 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000709162053.00910880@pop.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >There must be some value to special case experiences beyond personal
> >enjoyment or else the universe would exist exclusively in pure principle?
> >
> >Dexter
>
> Not sure it makes sense at all to speak/think of principles
> minus some expression thereof.  If it weren't for the special
> cases, there'd be nothing by which the principles could test
> and know themselves.  I suppose you might say the special
> cases are the laboratory for principled examination of
> principles (or not so principled, as the case may be).
>
> Kirby

It seems to me that we all start out as biological machines programmed
to run in the Earthlife system with little conscious need of principles
but as we develop our minds and personalities we begin to generalize
experiences into ever-more abstract concepts which take us further and
further into the realm of pure principle. I would say that society and
cultures do this too, at least the more progressive ones, by developing
technology, science, philosophy, art, and religion (although the latter
is often a reversion to mysticism.) So given enough time, civilizations
which pass the nuclear threshold and don't end-up destroying themselves
will one day evolve to a near-perfect working harmony with the eternally
regenerative principles which govern the nonsimultaneous scenario called
universe. Since many galaxies are billions of years old, there probably
exists a Civilization of the Universe which function in (or very close
to) pure principle. They will have mastered science, technology, arts,
philosophy, and perhaps even a transcendent religion of personal values
way beyond our relatively primitive conceptioning. These advanced human
beings operating in pure principle may even be responsible for the seed
planting of life on this planet and other environmental setup functions
like stabilizing the atmosphere and directing the evolution of Earthlife.

One group of atheistic Objectivists who call their philosophical product
NeoTech, even speculate that human mind-soul-personalities are harvested
at physical death by this benevolent Universal Civilization of Principle
which values special case mortal experience like ours as the best way of
producing, testing, and training its citizens. Nifty hypothesis I think.

Here is a link to the relevant part of the NeoTech web site:
http://www.neo-tech.com/finalevo/evo-036.html

Cheers,
Dexter
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:34:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      FW: EDGE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I found this  really cool web site: http://www.edge.org/

"The mandate of EDGE Foundation is to promote inquiry into and
discussion of intellectual, philosophical, artistic, and
literary issues, as well as to work for the intellectual and
social achievement of society."

---------------------------------------------------------

And I found this article about the next big revolution in
computer software very well written and thought provoking.


THE SECOND COMING — A MANIFESTO
By David Gelernter

"Everything is up for grabs. Everything will change. There is
a magnificent sweep of intellectual landscape right in front
of us."

"Any Microsecond Now"

"Computing will be transformed. It's not just that our problems
are big, they are big and obvious. It's not just that the
solutions are simple, they are simple and right under our
noses. It's not just that hardware is more advanced than
software; the last big operating-systems breakthrough was the
Macintosh, sixteen years ago, and today's hottest item is Linux,
which is a version of Unix, which was new in 1976. Users react
to the hard truth that commercial software applications tend to
be badly-designed, badly-made, incomprehensible and obsolete by
blaming themselves ("Computers for Morons," "Operating Systems
for Livestock"), and meanwhile, money surges through our
communal imagination like beer from burst barrels. Billions.
Naturally the atmosphere is a little strange; change is coming,
soon."

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/gelernter/gelernter_index.html

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/gelernter/gelernter_p1.html

Cheers,
Dexter
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:22:38 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo
In-Reply-To:  <MPBBLIMHCJKLKFBGODFOIEMPDHAA.dextergraphic@prodigy.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dexter wrote:
>universe. Since many galaxies are billions of years old, there probably
>exists a Civilization of the Universe which function in (or very close
>to) pure principle. They will have mastered science, technology, arts,
>philosophy, and perhaps even a transcendent religion of personal values
>way beyond our relatively primitive conceptioning. These advanced human
>beings operating in pure principle may even be responsible for the seed
>planting of life on this planet and other environmental setup functions
>like stabilizing the atmosphere and directing the evolution of Earthlife.

Such science fiction is indeed more resonant with Fuller's poetic
vision than the conventional story, which posits no design science
inputs to primordial Earth.  But as we decipher the genome and
learn to synthesize DNA strands with custom capabilities, plus
look at terraforming Mars one of these days, it at least becomes
credible that our species would somehow give rise to others on
other planets, through some process of design and customization.
The farther we project such technology forward, the easier it is
to rewind the tape and look at the Earthian biosphere's formation
as perhaps a scenario on the receiving end of high tech broadcasting
from elsewhere.  That's a lot of 'Synergetics' in a nutshell right
there, even if the speculations are too thinly fleshed out with
empirical evidence to merit the term 'scientific' (in the academic
sence).  'Science fiction' will have to do (and as such, it still
has leverage, as our pop culture is already deeply informed by
scifi).

BTW, you might want to check into physicist Frank Tipler's highly
speculative works, which are more anthropocentric (in the sense
of positing something unique about intelligent life in this neck
of the woods), but likewise sketch out some "grand destiny" for
what we call "intelligence", suggesting that some kind of
networked life form might guide a cosmic "crunch" (opposite of
big bang) to ensure it led towards an Omega of optimized
computing (quasi-complete synchrony with the eternal principles).
Of course he paints his physics over top of a lot of religious
stories, trying to show how science doesn't "shut out" some of
our odd-ball believers (he at least gives them ammo).  Of course
the echoes of Teilhard de Chardin are strong here.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:23:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      laugh
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thought some would enjoy this excerpt from Peter
Blake's NO PLACE LIKE UTOPIA, page 93:

Bucky, who lectured at the institute (of Design in
Chicago, 1937), happened to be in town.  "He is living
in a trailer, on a parking lot in the Loop," Serge
(Chermayeff) said. "He seems to be conducting some
kind of experiment on himself."  Since neither the
trailer or the parking lot had a telephone, Bucky was
generally unreachable. "He usually turns up after
lunch," Serge said. "Why don't you wait for him, if
you want to meet him."

It was Saturday, and there were not many students or
teachers in evidence. Bucky's studio was a drafting
room located in the basement of the armory, and that
is were I waited.  After a while, Serge appeared, with
Bucky in tow. I had never met Bucky in my life, but he
started talking--bubbling over--as if he and I had
been interrupted in the middle of a sentence about ten
minutes earlier.  "What I have just discovered is that
bebop has the same beat as the new mathematical
shorthand I have been working on," he said, and jumped
on top of one of the drafting tables lined up in the
studio.  "It goes like this," he said snapping his
fingers and tapping his feet--while calling out an
incomprehensible sequence of numbers, something like
"five, nine, seventeen, twenty-nine, fifty-three...."
I was totally mystified and utterly charmed.  It
happened that I had taken some courses in applied
mathematics, and I thought I knew a little about
numbers.  "You see what I mean, don't you, dear boy,"
Bucky called out, over the drumbeat of his tapping
toes.  I stood there, openmouthed, not believing my
eyes or ears.  He was obviously quite mad, and utterly
disarming.  I didn't know then that he called everyone
"dear boy" or "dear girl" from Day One, and that I
would be one of his tens of thousands of Dear Children
for the rest of his life...
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:18:36 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: ELECTRON SHELLS

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000  8:18
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 >last time I tried that, it said,
 >Sorry, this is for storage, not hyperlinks!

  For a new model of the electron shells (concentric icosas)
  and the formula (20F^2)/10 for the number of electrons in a shell see:

  http://www1.50megs.com/polytope/websyn.txt

  I think Mr Styles & company have made a MAJOR contribution to
 Synergetics.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:45:41 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: cosmic hairdo (was: laugh)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000  8:45
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 in other words, this poor, dear boy dropped the ball;
 I'd guess, though, that he was referring
 to his "Scheherazade numbers," which was a silly idea,
 perhaps.

 thus quoth:
  incomprehensible sequence of numbers, something like
  "five, nine, seventeen, twenty-nine, fifty-three...."
  I was totally mystified and utterly charmed.  It
  happened that I had taken some courses in applied
  mathematics, and I thought I knew a little about
  numbers.  "You see what I mean, don't you, dear boy,"
  Bucky called out, over the drumbeat of his tapping
  toes.  I stood there, openmouthed, not believing my

  ?Three generations of Skull and Bones -- GOT BUSH?...
  Http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
  ?Got "Education Automation" ??...
  Times, Sept.7, 1998, "Wizard Reinvents Himself".
  ?Got "Classical" education?...
  Http://www.larouchecampaign.com/pdfs/BW2322.Education.pdf.
  !Belmont High Lives -- if Guv Roy Does!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:57:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000  8:57
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 isn't Tipler one of time-travelling illuminati?
    the Biggus Bangus is an athiest creation drama,
 recently called into question by the dyscovery
 of molecular hydrogen (dihydrogen),
 predominating in Universe.
    the cosomological constant becomes, "Doh!," as is usual.
    of course, time-travel will not defeat causality (and science),
 if you posit multiple universes a-branching, but
 what is to stop "it" from being ennested
 in a neer-ending series of multiple universes ad vomitorium;
 nothing?

 thus quoth:
  big bang) to ensure it led towards an Omega of optimized
  computing (quasi-complete synchrony with the eternal principles).

 --The duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:11:33 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000  9:11
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 just the first page is rife with mainstream hallucination.
 the guy refers to the "empirical fact" of Smith's "invisible hand," as if
 "capitalism" were the same thing as "British Liberal Free Trade,"
 which is simply a misappropriation of a simple, technical term --
 albeit promoted by imperialists and marksists, alike.
    it is important to note that Smith capitalizes, Invisible Hand,
 to refer to God's, although the cartels (viz, of the Empire) are
 somewhat earthly.

 we can at leat take one thing of value
 from the deconstructionists (who know-not constructive geometry,
 by default):
 contained within a book, is a unique text,
 entirely independent of the pages & indices (if any .-)

 thus quoth:
 future. We tend not to believe in the next big war or economic swing;

 just say, Doh!

 http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/gelernter/gelernter_p1.html

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:14:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: cosmic hairdo (was: FW:EDGE)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000  9:14
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 >just the first page is rife with mainstream hallucination.
 >the guy refers to the "empirical fact" of Smith's "invisible hand," as if
 >"capitalism" were the same thing as "British Liberal Free Trade,"
 >which is simply a misappropriation of a simple, technical term --
 >albeit promoted by imperialists and marksists, alike.
 >   it is important to note that Smith capitalizes, Invisible Hand,
 >to refer to God's, although the cartels (viz, of the Empire) are
 >somewhat earthly.
 >
 >we can at leat take one thing of value
 >from the deconstructionists (who know-not constructive geometry,
 >by default):
 >contained within a book, is a unique text,
 >entirely independent of the pages & indices (if any .-)
 >
 >thus quoth:
 >future. We tend not to believe in the next big war or economic swing;
 >
 >just say, Doh!
 >
 >http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/gelernter/gelernter_p1.html
 >
 >--The Duke of Oil!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:16:45 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000  9:16
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 uh-oh; "NeoTechies" are die-hard Ayn Remington Randites?
    that explains enough!

 thus quoth:
  One group of atheistic Objectivists who call their philosophical product
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:23:31 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Greenpeace opposes Star Wars testing

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000  9:23
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 and yet, you ignore the recent "democracy fest" in Warsaw,
 by Madame Albright, Soros et al,
 which was intended to further the New (undead) NATO paradigm
 and reach, by having the signatories pledged to sanctions, or
 peace "keeping," if such a nation shoulkd not convert
 to the "religion" of democracy, as French foreign minister Vedrine
 had put it.
    he did not sign, leading to a rush away from it
 by a host of developing countries, and the collapse
 of the whole, jacobin exercise!

 thus quoth:
  the base since early Wednesday morning and  four entered it early this
  morning. They are equipped, trained and  prepared to stay inside for

 --The Racist Nightmare at Yale!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:36:06 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: cosmic redo

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000  9:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I find it strange, that pumped biomass is also not included,
 and is referred to as "petroleum;"
 there is a doirect conversion between British thermal Units,
 and kilowatt-seconds (joules).

 thus quoth:
 http://www.eia.doe.gov/

  They use btu(s) as their energy unit of choice, except I noticed they use
  kilowatts for their nuclear info. And I also noticed they have a footnote
 on
  one of their charts explaining that hydroelectric power on their chart
 isn't
  included in solar output. I find it interesting that they put that
 footnote

 --The Racist Nightmare at Yale!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:59:29 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      knows rings?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   10-JUL-2000 12:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 show how the so-called Borromean Rings
 --you've certainly seen a magincian using them--
 are an illusion, akin to the "tribar," or
 how an operative, *rigid* set of such rings
 may be constructed (possibly to appear as they do,
 in the heraldry; that is, 3 equidiameter round rings,
 seemingly with all their axes in the same direction,
 at you).
    the technical term is "nolinks,"
 as constructed in great abundance
 in Alan Holden's book, _Knots and Ordered Tangles_,
 I think, in which they are all, naturally,
 polygonal -- why?  (hint:
 per vos Savant, manholes are *not* .-)

 --The Racist Nightmare at Yale!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:36:26 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Crossed wires?
Comments: cc: hellman@teleport.com, bstonier@teleport.com
In-Reply-To:  <20000710162344.5596.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm getting these emails that aren't for me, that I can tell,=20
nor do they seem to be from the GEODESIC listserv at the
University of Buffalo, and yet GEODESIC is named as the=20
X-From.  Anyone else getting this stuff?  Wire crossed at=20
my ISP?

Kirby


X-From_: owner-geodesic@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Jul 11 09:36:56 2000
Delivered-To: pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:10:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Walter Hellman <hellman@teleport.com>
To: Walter Hellman <hellman@teleport.com>
Subject: Meadows/Car theft and car break-in

X-From_: owner-geodesic@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Jul 11 03:44:22 2000
Delivered-To: pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM
X-Sender: bretts@sss.sight-n-sound.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:02:34 -0700
To: cstonier@teleport.com
From: Brett Stonier <bretts@sight-n-sound.com>
Subject: RE: Email from CitySearch KATU =A0  Site
Cc: bstonier@teleport.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:46:32 +0000
Reply-To:     SpaceshipEarth@mail.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
Comments: To: RBringhurst@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

While reading a little Fuller this morning, I ran across this
passage on page 24 of Critical Path, which appears to be about
what you're looking for.

"Compressional capability is manifest of the land-born stone ages
and the inertia of stone walls. At sea humanity entered into true
technology -- that of powerful tension-interfastening capability."

Joe S Moore wrote:
>
> Dear Robert,
>
> Try as I might, I can't locate that quote. It could be in an article or some
> audio or video tape.  But I'm sure Bucky said it or something like it.  It
> sounds so like him.  I even looked in the 'Synergetics Dictionary', but no
> luck.  Sorry.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Bringhurst" <RBringhurst@compuserve.com>
> To: "Joe Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 3:13 PM
> Subject: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
>
> > Dear Mr Moore,
> >
> > I am assured that you know more than almost anyone
> > else about the work of Buckminster Fuller. I wonder if
> > you can help me find something in his work.
> >
> > I am editing the selected writings of the Native Canadian artist
> > Bill Reid, who died two years ago. Among his papers is the
> > text of a lecture he gave on Native American dugout canoes.
> > He credits Buckminster Fuller with an important idea on this
> > theme, and I am attempting to find the source in Fuller's
> > writings.
> >         The passage in question, reads as follows:
> >
> > >> Buckminster Fuller may well have been right when he said
> > that the beginnings of design are found in the early work of those
> > who lived by and of the sea. For it is possible to build some kind
> > of structure merely by piling pieces of debris on top of one another
> > until you get something you can use, no matter how clumsy it may
> > be, provided you build it on land. But when you decide to go to sea,
> > you discover very soon that you have to contend with factors such
> > as weight to volume relationships, width to length ratios, relations
> > of strength to thickness, depth and shape to stability. And that's
> > only the beginning. You have to consider the nature of materials, to
> > invent the tools to effect their transformation so they can be used.
> > You have to consider means of propulsion and navigation: how to
> > get from here to there and back again without getting lost. <<
> >
> > I do not know whether some or all of this may be direct quotation
> > from Fuller. But in looking through his books, I have not yet found
> > a passage in which this idea is really raised. Watercraft are mentioned
> > very frequently, of course, but I have not yet found a passage where
> > Fuller says more or less explicitly "that the beginnings of design are
> > found in the early work of those who lived by and of the sea."
> > Do you know where I might find this theme in Fuller's work, or can you
> > suggest someone else who might know that work well enough to help me?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Robert Bringhurst
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:36:52 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      [Q-P] 3rd party vote

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   11-JUL-2000 11:36
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 on the matter of negotiating your way between,
 as it were, Scylla and Charybdis, shouldn't we look
 at the jurisprudence of the mellieux
 from which these superpresumptive candidates have grown?
    in the case of Al, Jr., that is Vanderbilt U.,
 named after the railroad baron, a stronghold
 of the "Hashville Agrarians;" dig it?
    in the case of "JR" Bush,
 it is hte networks of Brown Bros.Harriman,
 a.k.a. Skull and Bones.  (examples: James Baker III's firm
 was pivotal in Sir George's career; Hicks, Muse,
 which owns "Chancellor Broadcasting" and syndicates Art Bell,
 is the largest M&A firm on Earth.)
    those are the presumed choices "between," and
 it seems rather doubtful that *their* choices are going
 to be anything but loud-mouthed proponents
 of "states rights" or possibly outright dysunion,
 to start from the most architectural basis
 of their decisions.

 unfortunately, the famous 5-4 split has already done it,
 in March: they nullified the Voting Rights Act,
 at the behest of the DNC's John Keeney, Jr.
    the balance is already gone, and
 electing either Gush or Bore or both, would be akin
 to blowing your partner off of the see-saw.
    can't we elect someone who is not a bad clown, or
 do Hicks, Muse and the Hollinger Corp. have all
 of the say-so?...  Murdoch, also, and Bill Gates?

 thus quoth:
  However I am scared to death of a Supreme Court appointed by Bush.

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:49:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] environment urls for kids

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   11-JUL-2000 11:49
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the "Kids Corner" thing refers to, like,
 "how global warming will effect malaria,"
 which is a common supposition.  historically,
 as in Shakespeare's England, malaria was quite widespread,
 and has more to do with swamps.  (they called it,
 the augue (sp.?).)

 thus quoth:
  > how a warming climate may affect the spread of malaria. (EPA,NASA)

 seguing back to D&R Party politics,
 which is still a contested pair of fields,
 your prophesied "boom economy" is a lot closer
 to an implosion.  Greenspan, the acolyte of Ayn Rand
 and promoter of "exhuberence," has worked
 to keep interest rates "up," in order
 to keep the foreign savings flowing to fill the deficit:
 2/3 of all savings goes to American securites & bonds.
    that is what our hyperpresumptive buttheads hail, or
 perhaps they worship the Chairguy!
    what does Nader say about it, or Buchanan, or
 anyone else who is still running with matching-funds etc.??

 thus quoth:
  others that we have had a GOP Congress (which actually writes the laws
 that
  have provided a boom economy -- and a Democratic President who his own
 party

 --Welcome to Our Mausoleum!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:19:48 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@SCULPTORS.COM>
Subject:      Happy Birthday, Bucky!

------- Blind-Carbon-Copy

X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999
To: salsbury
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bucky!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:19:48 -0700
From: Patrick Salsbury <salsbury@bootstrap.sculptors.com>

Today (July 12th) marks the 105th Anniversary of Bucky Fuller's birth. :-)



Pat
           ___________________Think For Yourself____________________
         Patrick G. Salsbury - http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/
    Check out the Reality Sculptors Project: http://reality.sculptors.com/
           ---------------------------------------------------------
Sitting still promotes growth. If this isn't already a well-known, scientific
               fact, then by all means, attribute it to me! :-)




------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:17:40 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dean Smith <dean_smith@ECONVENE.COM>
Subject:      ShorelineUU Dome
In-Reply-To:  <200007130619.XAA02929@bootstrap.sculptors.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I'm pleased to announce that the Shoreline Unitarian-Universalist Church in
Shoreline, WA has voted to build a 65 ft Dome Sanctuary, with an extension
for offices, kitchen, etc.  We hope to complete the design and apply for
permits this fall (2000), with occupancy by Fall 2001.


Dean Smith
V.P., Board of Trustees; Chair, Building Committee
(206)417-9818
dean_smith@eConvene.com      |  http://www.shorelineuu.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:27:26 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Black-out on Nader

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   14-JUL-2000 11:27
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 There were two succesive stories on the "people's superhero" (sik)
 --see the stylized "R" logo on the shirt-- in the LATimes,
 the first a small box; nowhere nearly as extensive as the Post article.
 (The 16 + 24 expected total of ballots is similar to Lyn's,
 dyscounting the some states that acted illegally to bar us, as well
 as the Michigan and Arkansas parties, for overturning their primaries.
 Thank you, friend Dhanesh .-)  Of course,
 we have gotten exactly zero coverage, and we're still in the race,
 unlike Bradley (I'm sure you saw his official grandstanding, today,
 with "JR" Gore; he capitulated to the Veep in Michigan, though,
 so it has been perfectly moot for months !-)
    I saw nothing on Hillary, though, but this is a Teal town,
 so to say.
    As for your quote of Hamilton,
 the "people are the Voice of God" saying is resolutely jacobin,
 just as the "liberation" of the Bastille was a minor crime,
 paid-for by the Duc d'Orleans -- someone,
 put Granny D in a maximum-security rest-home, as well!...
 Remember, this was *before* the establishment
 of a republican form of government, at the creation, so
 I won't try to apologize for the apparent elitism.

 Proportional representation, friend Fred (?), is (I think) specifically
 unwished-for by the founding parental units, since
 it appears to throw the system into de facto parliamentarism,
 and the sudden dyssolution of governments by oligarchical whim
 (or scandal; this was nearly the practical result of the impeachment
 of bad-boy Bill.  Please, do not lay all of the ill-decisions
 of the Administration at his feet, which were on the fire;
 Gore was the bigger problem, by far, here: for instance,
 he was the one who brought Dick Morris in,
 according to Stephanapoulos' book -- although
 GS went along with it, he admitted).

 Gore'd be a very bad picker of Justices, friend Lynn, accordinly
 to his indoctrination as a Nashville Agrarian (a euphamism
 for a Confederate good-ol'boy, more or less) and
 George is admittedly off of the scale, or on the scale
 of pere George; eh?...  But, how about that Cabinet,
 to be reinstalled as if Ollie North had not just been a lieutenant
 of Sir George?

 thus quoth y'all:
  The situation in the case of a proportional representation electoral
  structure is quite different. There are pluses and minuses for both


  rather than going third party, is possibly the influence of this
  election on the make-up of the Supreme Court.  So, what is


    |  people has been said to be the voice of God; and
    |  however generally this maxim has been quoted and

 --The End Was Nigh!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Jul 2000 08:01:31 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: knows rings

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   15-JUL-2000  8:01
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 my update re the Borromean rings did not get through.
    well, I was gruesomely mystaquen about the 3-ring trick:
 although there are truly no *binary*, ring-to-ring linkages
 in this assmebly, they seem to indysoluably wed --
 topologically, not just by mere geometrical restraints,
 as I had thought.
    it may be that the 3-ring trick uses this basic structure
 with one or 2 trick rings,  it's also possible
 that the classical magician's "split ring" is the same
 as Bucky's Mobius tube (or that Mobius got the idea
 from a magician), applied in an interesting problem
 of metalurgy to a solid "tube".
    so, after the third day, of perusing this thing,
 I finally found the *structure* of the object,
 with a nod to fuller and Snelson.
    you have to build it, to see it, though,
 which is not hard, once you find the 3-way rotational symmetry!

 --Borne in a Crypt!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:07:59 -0700
Reply-To:     urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <urner@ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      GRUNCH lurches forward (take two)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HYPE>

With the Star Wars test failure casting a dim light on
that future scenario, aerospace companies are casting
about for new cows to milk.  The fact that most of the
navy's flotilla isn't protected from cruise missile
attacks looks like a promising binge.  Then of course
there's the aging inventory in military aviation
across the board.  All those creaky old fighter jets
that just don't make heads turn any more (and cost
$7K per hour to operate).

The important point to note is this is more an Orwellian
response, driven by the bottom line, than it is some
carefully thought out strategy or plan about how to cope
with real threats in the coming years (what "national
security" might have meant in some mythical past).  It's
more TFX, more congressional district watering holes,
less anything a true general (vs. a politician) would
recognize as militarily smart move.

A real threat would be the AIDS epidemic -- but that
doesn't sell aerospace gear (it could though -- we need
helicopter-deployable MedLabs and InfoPods with GIS/GPS,
and well-trained teams to operate 'em -- have for years
(but there's no point pioneering new lines when the
tried and true "general dynamics as usual" still feed
retired shareholders, keep the legions happy in their
RV heavens (kinda like there's no point doing much R&D
on hybrid fuel vehicles when gas is still cheaper than
Pepsi))).

Some of the more forward-looking high tech companies,
and not just the internet ones, realize there's a future
to be made in more "civilianized" scenarios, wherein the
"dual use" factor is tilted more towards the benign and
less toward the shoot 'em ups.  However, there's never
been a solution to the central problem:  how do you
replace the politics of fear and hate, and the adrenalin
which flows from it, with something equally inspiring?

President Carter tried the "moral equivalent of war"
and president Johnson the "war on poverty", but the fact
remains, nothing sells product like good old fashioned
war itself.

So the hunt is on for a new arena.  NATO thought it had
a gold mine in the Balkans, but that fizzled too early,
without the much-planned-for ground war and assault on
Belgrade.  Iraq has been reduced to starving children,
along with North Korea, and Cuba is mostly interested
in commercial agreements.  It's a dire situation for
lawyer-capitalism of the 1900s variety.  Of course the
Silicon Valley type companies aren't so worried -- which
is even more of a problem (we're having some boom times
in some sectors that're _not_ obviously driven by the
demand for war-related products, giving people the idea
that a "peace dividend" could really mean something
for a change).

So it's the dinosaur defense contractors, and their
congressional puppets, versus the 21st century high
tech networkers, and their disinterest in government
(except in the "leave me alone sense") -- not like
it's either/or, more a spectrum.  USA capitalism is
not monolithic.  If the war mongers have trouble jump-
starting the next one (Columbia is the most promising
theater it the moment), this won't spell Great Depression
or the need to prime the budget with big ticket "war
department" spending.

Put another way, the front line is the fight to save
the next generation from a really crummy and obsolete
curriculum (the "math wars" is but an iceberg tip
vis-a-vis this high-inertia education department
juggernaut).  Big ticket education could easily replace
Star Wars as the next big thing, and people would buy
in, once they got a taste of Disney World style
redevelopment.  Or call it Project Renaissance.[1]

</HYPE>

Kirby

[1] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html

NOTE:  GRUNCH = Gross Universal Cash Heist:
       http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/grunch.html
       (or see 'Everything is Under Control' by
       R.A. Wilson et al)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:54:07 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      To Kirbys rescue
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFEF70.5DA78AE0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFEF70.5DA78AE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Don't panic Kirby,

China would make a great enemy. Yes siree bob, lots of terrain to get =
lost in. Eisenhower pointed out that a war in Asia would get bogged down =
in a land war. Just think how much the US could get bogged down in =
China. We are talking billions in just CD players for the troops in the =
field. Eisenhower just wasn't a very good hawk, though. Hell he even =
warned everyone about the "Military Industrial Complex". Eisenhower =
aside I feel quite optimistic that the "dogs of war" will be able to, =
"Behind the scenes" , "Over our dead bodies", "Feliz Navidad",  declare =
war on the Chinese. But they'll have to hurry and of course they'll have =
to make it look as though the Chinese started it, because the Chinese =
might get a few nukes ready and god knows that could ruin everything. =
Now if it doesn't work out with the Chinese (They'll be mass producing =
the CD players for our fighting troops) we could get invaded by aliens. =
I mean come on they attacked Roswell some 50 years ago and the Chinese =
have never attacked Roswell. But then I almost forgot in the spirit of =
L. B. Johnson's war on Poverty young Bushmeister ( Toga Bushmeister as =
in Rome all over again ) if elected could declare war on poverty again =
and this time we'll get it right. He'll have everyone with an income =
below 50,000 a year incarcerated for being hmmmmm  ... oh I know.. =
"Un-American" that will include hippies even if they make more than =
50,000 a year. Just think of the money the Private Prison Industry will =
make. And "buy" god they'll need some fancier fighter jets too. Well =
hopefully they will.. I hope I've been able to shed some light for you =
Kirby.  =20

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFEF70.5DA78AE0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don't panic Kirby,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>China would make a great enemy. Yes =
siree bob, lots=20
of terrain to get lost in. Eisenhower pointed out that a war in Asia =
would get=20
bogged down in a land war. Just think how much the US could get bogged =
down in=20
China. We are talking billions in just CD players for the troops in the =
field.=20
Eisenhower just wasn't a very good hawk, though. Hell he even warned =
everyone=20
about the "Military Industrial Complex". Eisenhower aside I feel quite=20
optimistic that the "dogs of war" will be able to, "Behind the scenes" , =
"Over=20
our dead bodies", "Feliz Navidad",  declare war on the Chinese. But =
they'll have=20
to hurry and of course they'll have to make it look as though the =
Chinese=20
started it, because the Chinese might get a few nukes ready and god =
knows that=20
could ruin everything.&nbsp;Now if it doesn't work out with the Chinese =
(They'll=20
be mass producing the CD players for our fighting troops) we could get =
invaded=20
by aliens. I mean come on they attacked Roswell some 50 years ago and =
the=20
Chinese have never attacked Roswell. But then I almost forgot in the =
spirit of=20
L. B. Johnson's war on Poverty young Bushmeister ( Toga Bushmeister as =
in Rome=20
all over again ) if elected could declare war on poverty&nbsp;again and =
this=20
time we'll get it right. He'll have everyone with an income below 50,000 =
a year=20
incarcerated for being hmmmmm&nbsp; ... oh I know.. "Un-American" that =
will=20
include hippies even if they make more than 50,000 a year. Just think of =
the=20
money the Private Prison Industry will make. And "buy" god they'll need =
some=20
fancier fighter jets too. Well hopefully they will.. I hope I've been =
able to=20
shed some light for you Kirby. &nbsp; </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFEF70.5DA78AE0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:31:33 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      The Cathedral and the Bazaar
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Exciting ideas about community-based non-proprietary software development.
(From a book review for "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond.)

http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1565927249

        "This is how we did it."
        -Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux kernel

It all started with a series of odd statistics. The leading challenger
to Microsoft's stranglehold on the computer industry is an operating
system called Linux, the product of thousands of volunteer programmers
who collaborate over the Internet. The software behind a majority of
all the world's web sites doesn't come from a big company either, but
from a loosely coordinated group of volunteer programmers called the
Apache Group. The Internet itself, and much of its core software, was
developed through a process of networked collaboration.

The key to these stunning successes is a movement that has come to be
called open source, because it depends on the ability of programmers to
freely share their program source code so that others can improve it.
In 1997, Eric S. Raymond outlined the core principles of this movement
in a manifesto called The Cathedral and the Bazaar, which was published
and freely redistributed over the Internet.

Mr. Raymond's thinking electrified the computer industry. He argues
that the development of the Linux operating system by a loose
confederation of thousands of programmers-without central project
management or control-turns on its head everything we thought we knew
about software project management. Internet-enabled collaboration and
free information sharing, not monopolistic control, is the key to
innovation and product quality.

This idea was interesting to more than programmers and software project
leaders. It suggested a whole new way of doing business, and the
possibility of unprecedented shifts in the power structures of the
computer industry.

The rush to capitalize on the idea of open source started with Netscape's
decision to release its flagship Netscape Navigator product under open
source licensing terms in early 1998. Before long, Fortune 500 companies
like Intel, IBM, and Oracle were joining the party. By August 1999, when
the leading Linux distributor, Red Hat Software, made its hugely successful
public stock offering, it had become clear that open source was "the next
big thing" in the computer industry.

This revolutionary book starts out with A Brief History of Hackerdom-the
historical roots of the open-source movement-and details the events that
led to the recognition of the power of open source. It contains the full
text of The Cathedral and the Bazaar, updated and expanded for this book,
plus Mr. Raymond's other key essays on the social and economic dynamics
of open-source software development.

Open source is the competitive advantage in the Internet Age. The Cathedral
and the Bazaar is a must for anyone who cares about the computer industry
or the dynamics of the information economy. Already, billions of dollars
have been made and lost based on the ideas in this book. Its conclusions
will be studied, debated, and implemented for years to come.


Another review:

After Linus Torvalds, Eric Raymond is the most well-known icon of the open
source movement: brash, controversial, and omnipresent. Of course, when
you're an icon, what you're trying to say tends to get obscured, and Raymond
has a lot to say that's worth hearing. In THE CATHEDRAL AND THE BAZAAR,
Raymond extends his ground-breaking open source essay, and brings together
new versions of four more essays, each mandatory reading for anyone
interested in the technical and social implications of open source.

Raymond astutely captures the differences between what open source developers
say ("anyone can hack any code") and how they behave (subject to finely-drawn
customs resembling classic Lockean property rights and anthropological "gift
culture"). He explodes common myths of software economics (including the
beguiling idea that information wants to be free); and then proposes new
conceptual tools for making open source economics work, long-term. Finally,
he offers an insider's look at the movement's strategy -- plus some rueful
observations about what it means to be a celebrity.—(Bill Camarda, bn.com,
editor)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:43:47 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH lurches forward (take two)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   17-JUL-2000 22:43
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 oops.

  MESSAGE   from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU        17-JUL-20 21:30
  <HYPE>

  With the Star Wars test failure casting a dim light on
  that future scenario, aerospace companies are casting
  about for new cows to milk.  The fact that most of the
  navy's flotilla isn't protected from cruise missile
  attacks looks like a promising binge.  Then of course
  there's the aging inventory in military aviation
  across the board.  All those creaky old fighter jets
  that just don't make heads turn any more (and cost
  $7K per hour to operate).

  The important point to note is this is more an Orwellian
  response, driven by the bottom line, than it is some
  carefully thought out strategy or plan about how to cope
  with real threats in the coming years (what "national
  security" might have meant in some mythical past).  It's

 Message 165...REPLY, PASS, DELETE, or ? for options:  (pass) r

 Enter the text of your message.
 When you're finished, press the <RETURN> key twice.
 >
 >it's the Orwellian "version" of SDI -- Bush's, and
 >now, Gore's (as with so-many other continuities
 >of the clinton Admin, due to "JR" Al).
 >
 >.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:33:50 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r007883@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      GRUNCH lurches forward (take two)

MESSAGE from =urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU 17-JUL-2000 21:30
 <HYPE>

 With the Star Wars test failure casting a dim light on
 that future scenario, aerospace companies are casting
 about for new cows to milk.  The fact that most of the
 navy's flotilla isn't protected from cruise missile
 attacks looks like a promising binge.  Then of course
 there's the aging inventory in military aviation
 across the board.  All those creaky old fighter jets
 that just don't make heads turn any more (and cost
 $7K per hour to operate).

 The important point to note is this is more an Orwellian
 response, driven by the bottom line, than it is some
 carefully thought out strategy or plan about how to cope
 with real threats in the coming years (what "national
 security" might have meant in some mythical past).  It's
 more TFX, more congressional district watering holes,
 less anything a true general (vs. a politician) would
 recognize as militarily smart move.

 A real threat would be the AIDS epidemic -- but that
 doesn't sell aerospace gear (it could though -- we need
 helicopter-deployable MedLabs and InfoPods with GIS/GPS,
 and well-trained teams to operate 'em -- have for years
 (but there's no point pioneering new lines when the
 tried and true "general dynamics as usual" still feed
 retired shareholders, keep the legions happy in their
 RV heavens (kinda like there's no point doing much R&D
 on hybrid fuel vehicles when gas is still cheaper than
 Pepsi))).

 Some of the more forward-looking high tech companies,
 and not just the internet ones, realize there's a future
 to be made in more "civilianized" scenarios, wherein the
 "dual use" factor is tilted more towards the benign and
 less toward the shoot 'em ups.  However, there's never
 been a solution to the central problem:  how do you
 replace the politics of fear and hate, and the adrenalin
 which flows from it, with something equally inspiring?

 President Carter tried the "moral equivalent of war"
 and president Johnson the "war on poverty", but the fact
 remains, nothing sells product like good old fashioned
 war itself.

 So the hunt is on for a new arena.  NATO thought it had
 a gold mine in the Balkans, but that fizzled too early,
 without the much-planned-for ground war and assault on
 Belgrade.  Iraq has been reduced to starving children,
 along with North Korea, and Cuba is mostly interested
 in commercial agreements.  It's a dire situation for
 lawyer-capitalism of the 1900s variety.  Of course the
 Silicon Valley type companies aren't so worried -- which
 is even more of a problem (we're having some boom times
 in some sectors that're _not_ obviously driven by the
 demand for war-related products, giving people the idea
 that a "peace dividend" could really mean something
 for a change).

 So it's the dinosaur defense contractors, and their
 congressional puppets, versus the 21st century high
 tech networkers, and their disinterest in government
 (except in the "leave me alone sense") -- not like
 it's either/or, more a spectrum.  USA capitalism is
 not monolithic.  If the war mongers have trouble jump-
 starting the next one (Columbia is the most promising
 theater it the moment), this won't spell Great Depression
 or the need to prime the budget with big ticket "war
 department" spending.

 Put another way, the front line is the fight to save
 the next generation from a really crummy and obsolete
 curriculum (the "math wars" is but an iceberg tip
 vis-a-vis this high-inertia education department
 juggernaut).  Big ticket education could easily replace
 Star Wars as the next big thing, and people would buy
 in, once they got a taste of Disney World style
 redevelopment.  Or call it Project Renaissance.[1]

 </HYPE>

 Kirby

 [1] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html

 NOTE:  GRUNCH = Gross Universal Cash Heist:
        http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/grunch.html
        (or see 'Everything is Under Control' by
        R.A. Wilson et al)
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      17-JUL-2000 22:33
                 r007883@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 it's the Orwellian "version" of SDI -- Bush's, and
 now, Gore's (as with so-many other continuities
 of the clinton Admin, due to "JR" Al).
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:56:37 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH lurches forward (take two)
In-Reply-To:  <200007180533.e6I5XoS22527@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> it's the Orwellian "version" of SDI -- Bush's, and
> now, Gore's (as with so-many other continuities
> of the clinton Admin, due to "JR" Al).
>

Forgive if I don't toe your party line and say disdainful
things about LLR's ill-conceived "science driver" as well.
The idea of a "science driver" is OK, but the SDI format
is way too 1900s.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:55:22 -0800
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Dollarization
Comments: To: "tetworld@listbot.com" <tetworld@listbot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I'm really surprised that I haven't seen anything in the
newspapers on the movement to dollarization. There has been lots
of information on the internet newswires about it. The newly
formed East Timor government adopted the US dollar as its
official currency, which I believe was a smart move for an
unstable, newly formed country, and Ecuador recently made the
dollar its official currency. Argentina pegged it's peso to the
US dollar with a one-on-one reserve. Mexico has considered it but
appears to have lost interest as it's currency has stabilized.
Panama and Liberia have dollarized economies. Many other
countries have considered it in recent times, and the US senate
just passed a bill that would make it easier for emerging
economies to adopt the U.S. dollar as their national currency.
It's been proposed that Latin American countries and other
regions adopt a regional currency like the Euro.

Anyone have any thoughts regarding the creation of a universal
currency. How would it compare to Buckminster Fuller's idea of an
energy based economy (anyone have a link to info on that) or
Jacque Fresco's natural resource based economy?

RESOURCE-BASED ECONOMY: http://www.nas.com/venus/txt01.shtml#RB-Econ

Senate Banking panel passes dollarization bill:
http://news.excite.com:80/news/r/000713/17/economy-dollarization

Major US Economist Recommends 'Dollarization' for Zimbabwe
Economy
http://news.excite.com:80/news/pr/000711/dc-blackelectorate

This page states that "huge currency declines occurred in
Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea, and Indonesia after these
nations abandoned their pegged rates despite vowing to continue
them." http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~argentin/Argentina_April-99.html

Earlier this year, several noted economists—including
                                Guillermo Calvo, of the
University of Maryland’s Center for
                                International Economics, and
Catherine Mann, of the Institute
                                for International
Economics—gathered on Capitol Hill to
                                testify before a Senate hearing
on dollarization in
                                emerging-market economies.
Testifying on behalf of the U.S.
                                government, Lawrence Summers,
then deputy secretary of the
                                U. S. Treasury, observed that
dollarization could be
                                advantageous as it might allow
the United States to
                                “consolidate or expand” its role
in Latin American markets.
                                The full texts of these prepared
testimonies are available on the
                                Web site of the U.S. Senate
(http://www.senate.gov/~banking/99_04hrg/042299/index.htm).

                                In a paper presented at a recent
seminar in Paris, “New
                                Initiatives to Tackle
International Financial Turmoil,” Pedro
                                Pou, president of the Central
Bank of Argentina, offers his
                                country’s view on the advantages
of dollarization. (The paper
                                is available for download at
http://www.iadb.org/oce/seminar_paris.htm, on the Web site of the
Inter-American Development Bank, Office of the Chief Economist.)

It's funny, with the passage of the dollarization bill, I only
found two links on the subject on Excite News. There was a lot of
reporting on it in the past year.  A search for dollarization on
the web brings up over 2,000 hits.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:26:33 PDT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         philip szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] Dollarization
Comments: To: Tetworld@listbot.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>Anyone have any thoughts regarding the creation of a universal
>currency. How would it compare to Buckminster Fuller's idea of an
>energy based economy (anyone have a link to info on that)...or...

Pure Galaxy Copy are the only ones...the principle!

It's already a natural resource based economy. But, large
countries (power bases in technology) have the most of the
credit. It actually works a certain way: a sort of
cannibalisation of children on the bottom. And, on top
the oldest of people took all the extent of natural
resources built on superstition, superstition of medicine,
superstition of Pension Plans, or superstition of available
housing (in cities, etc.). Where the children are the Stars
of the "reasons for the Seniority, Ol' Boy Systems".
Stagnation from the decline builds the expectation of the
SS Nietzche Societies (often built by the "very Jews" that
hated it so much) subliminals of World War II, where they have
needed slavery for the crafting of Medicine (Penitenitiary
Experiments), Ultra-sophistication of Supercomputing
(especially slavery of women), and Out Call Services
(basing on Youth Crime, Prostitution, and Under 21
Year Old Labor Forces)! Becoming what they often fear
the most, "intellectualizing Slavery with Moneys
Funni-ness". Where has the economy gone has had overkill
of payment plans, by these paranoias. Otherwise, the
economy would be really fine (your winshield will get
a squeegy, with every gas refill again). The children
will take care of the aged, like they always did in olden
times. Old People, then, do not strangle their children
saying, "it's for their own good". Knowing full-well, that
the monstrosity of a planet they built, will create mental
disorders, will anger, and bring disillusioned involvement
of abstract-nature. Such as mentioned by all of the
above ballooning. And, guys like me will get a proper
position (needing Naturally Befitting Jobs). Where growth
befitting what's called Pure Galaxy Physical Laws! And,
guys like myself can help guys like Kirby Urner create
Patents and Books. There are plenty for going
around. But, without fears of reprisal of these
two-sets of people. Whom are most of the population, now.
Who drive each other crazy. Because, these opinions and
more are small drifts, by intervention, bringing back
science into the fold.

Did you know the more excuses, America makes about Outer
Space being for the future generation? The more the Galaxies
have become inaccessible. It has been difficult explaining
this, to "intelligencia" community always, as to why too.

Love You Guys, Philip



________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:36:48 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Sharing the future
Comments: To: Dr J Ganaposki <jetgraphics@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF0D6.5E30FE80"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF0D6.5E30FE80
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dr Ganaposki,

I think your idea for a pyramid city is excellent.  For my collection of =
"City" refs scroll down to "City" on the following web page:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Cheg-Cloc.htm

See also:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TetPyramidCityLand.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Dr J Ganaposki=20
  To: joemoore@cruzio.com=20
  Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 6:58 AM
  Subject: Sharing the future


  Dear Joe:

  I enjoyed your website and felt like sharing some ideas, too.

  One of the brainstorms that littered my mind dealt with making 21st =
century mega cities that were self-sufficient in many respects.

  I dislike the 90 degree pattern of urban life - sky needles and =
roadways that exclude nature. So I played around with the idea of =
co-evolution with nature, instead of obliteration.

  In short, I envisoned a mega-city on a hex grid, where triangles with =
north pointing vertices are building sites, and the triangles with south =
facing vertices are lakes.

  This creates an interesting augmentation of the sun for agricultural =
purposes as well as space heating. In the winter, as the low sun moves =
off southern axis, the inner walls are hit with both reflected and =
direct sunlight. High summer sun angles do not get reflected into the =
structure.

  I envisioned the building sites to hold immense tetrahedrons, though =
not equilateral in profile. Each floor had a terrace, the NW, and NE =
facing terraces were layered with dirt and left to nature, the isolated =
south face was the agricultural reserve. The agricultural system was =
made of troughs that held planters (soil or hydroponics), that were =
filled with seedlings, at the top, floated to the bottom, where they =
were harvested, and used minimal labor and energy.

  The designed slope of the NW, and NE sides was site dependent, but =
allowed sunlight at 60 degrees from due south to shine on the opposite =
face. This meant that the NW, and NE "wild zones" would be minimally =
shaded in the warmer half year between equinoxes, yet shaded more in the =
cooler half year. But it would definitely be an overall improvement, =
since the effective surface of wild habitat would be greater than the =
amount taken by the building, itself.

  This hexagonal Mega-city would feature a perimeter composed of 6 =
airplane runways, thus minimizing transit time from airport to =
destination, with the added benefit that the city is never in the flight =
path or holding pattern.

  I often thought that these pyramidal structures would be excellent =
candidates for octet trusses and other efficient techniques.



     Jeff Ganaposki
     jetgraphics@yahoo.com
     http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF0D6.5E30FE80
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG>Dr Ganaposki,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I think your idea for a pyramid city is excellent.&nbsp; =
For my=20
collection of "City" refs scroll down to "City" on the following web=20
page:</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Cheg-Cloc.htm"><STRONG>http=
://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Cheg-Cloc.htm</STRONG></A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>See also:</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TetPyramidCityLand.htm"><ST=
RONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Ideas/TetPyramidCityLand.htm</STRONG=
></A></DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG>Joe S Moore: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><STRONG>joemoore@cruzio.com</STRONG><=
/A><BR><STRONG>Buckminster=20
Fuller Virtual Institute: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><STRONG>http://www.cruzio.com/~=
joemoore/</STRONG></A><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:jetgraphics@yahoo.com" =
title=3Djetgraphics@yahoo.com>Dr J=20
  Ganaposki</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"=20
  title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com>joemoore@cruzio.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 10, 2000 =
6:58 AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Sharing the =
future</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Joe:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I enjoyed your website and felt like =
sharing some=20
  ideas, too.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One of the brainstorms that littered =
my mind=20
  dealt with making 21st century mega cities that were self-sufficient =
in many=20
  respects.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I dislike the 90 degree pattern of =
urban life -=20
  sky needles and roadways that exclude nature. So I played around with =
the idea=20
  of co-evolution with nature, instead of obliteration.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In short, I envisoned a mega-city on =
a hex grid,=20
  where triangles with north pointing vertices are building sites, and =
the=20
  triangles with south facing vertices are lakes.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This creates an interesting =
augmentation of the=20
  sun for agricultural purposes as well as space heating. In the=20
  winter</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>, as the low sun moves off =
southern axis,=20
  the inner walls are hit with both reflected and direct sunlight. High =
summer=20
  sun angles do not get reflected into the structure.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I envisioned the building sites =
to hold=20
  immense tetrahedrons, though not equilateral in profile. Each floor =
had a=20
  terrace, the NW, and NE facing terraces were layered with dirt and =
left to=20
  nature, the isolated south face was the agricultural reserve. The =
agricultural=20
  system was made of troughs that held planters (soil or hydroponics), =
that were=20
  filled with seedlings, at the top, floated to the bottom, where they =
were=20
  harvested, and used minimal labor and energy.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The designed slope of the NW, and NE =
sides was=20
  site dependent, but allowed sunlight at 60 degrees from due south to =
shine on=20
  the opposite face. This meant that the NW, and NE "wild zones" would =
be=20
  minimally shaded in the warmer half year between equinoxes, yet shaded =
more in=20
  the cooler half year. But it would definitely be an overall =
improvement, since=20
  the effective surface of wild habitat would be greater than the amount =
taken=20
  by&nbsp;the building, itself.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This hexagonal Mega-city would =
feature a=20
  perimeter composed of 6 airplane runways, thus minimizing transit time =
from=20
  airport to destination, with the added benefit that the city is never =
in the=20
  flight path or holding pattern.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I often thought that these pyramidal =
structures=20
  would be excellent candidates for octet trusses and other efficient=20
  techniques.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Jeff =
Ganaposki<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:jetgraphics@yahoo.com">jetgraphics@yahoo.com</A><BR>&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
  <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics">http://www.geocities.com/je=
tgraphics</A></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF0D6.5E30FE80--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:58:43 PDT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         philip szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] Dollarization (corrected because...lost the bottom
              sentences...)
Comments: To: Tetworld@listbot.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>Anyone have any thoughts regarding the creation of a universal
>currency. How would it compare to Buckminster Fuller's idea of an
>energy based economy (anyone have a link to info on that)...or...

Pure Galaxy Copy are the only ones...the principle!

It's already a natural resource based economy. But, large
countries (power bases in technology) have the most of the
credit. It actually works a certain way: a sort of
cannibalisation of children on the bottom. And, on top
the oldest of people took all the extent of natural
resources built on superstition, superstition of medicine,
superstition of Pension Plans, or superstition of available
housing (in cities, etc.). Where the children are the Stars
of the "reasons for the Seniority, Ol' Boy Systems".
Stagnation from the decline builds the expectation of the
SS Nietzche Societies (often built by the "very Jews" as
example that hated it so much) subliminals of World War
II, where they have needed slavery for the crafting of
Medicine (Penitenitiary Experiments), Ultra-sophistication
of Supercomputing (especially slavery of women), and Out
Call Services (basing on Youth Crime, Prostitution, and
Under 21 Year Old Labor Forces)! Becoming what they often
fear the most, "intellectualizing Slavery with Moneys
Funni-ness". Where  has the economy gone has had overkill
of payment plans, by these paranoias. Otherwise, the
economy would be really fine (your winshield will get
a squeegy, with every gas refill again). The children
will take care of the aged, like they always did in olden
times. Old People, then, do not strangle their children
saying, "it's for their own good". Knowing full-well, that
the monstrosity of a planet they built, will create mental
disorders, will anger, and bring disillusioned involvement
of abstract-nature. Such as mentioned by all of the
above ballooning. And, guys like me will get a proper
position (needing Naturally Befitting Jobs). Where growth
befitting what's called Pure Galaxy Physical Laws! And,
guys like myself can help guys like Kirby Urner create
Patents and Books, by purely donating, whatevers. There
are plenty for going around. But, without fears of
reprisal of these two-sets of people. Whom are most
of the population, now. Who drive each other crazy.
Because, these opinions and more are small drifts, by
intervention, bringing back science into the fold. The
statements made are examples not of certain groups, but
they are opinions about divisions of young and old.
Such as what happens in Africa when the young overtake
the population. But, in other parts of the world the
explosion in Senior Citizenship drive the economy,
creating opposing forces (Niezche example).

Did you know the more excuses, America makes about Outer
Space being for the future generation? The more the Galaxies
have become inaccessible. It has been difficult explaining
this, to "intelligencia" community always, as to why too.

Love You Guys, Philip



________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:29:15 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Dollarization

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   18-JUL-2000 22:29
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 dollarization is basically a total subsumation
 of a nation's sovereignity --
 mister Irrational Exhuberance (the dysciple of Ayn Rand)
 becomes your Chairman Al:
 as told by Labor Secretary Reich in his post-admin book,
 the Fed is WAY too powerful, and not constitutionally --Woodrow!--
 in his imaginary conversation with Greenspan
 ("Bob, you Bolshevik dwarf!")
    the Euro has a similar problem,
 that is being balked-at all over, aside from the fact that
 the City of London coyly controls the trade in it -- and
 that They have not *yet* put Betty Dos' face on the 1-ecu note
 (or the billion-ecu?)
    you world federalists ougth to look into
 a prefigured currency, Sir Henry's "petro-dollar;"
 it's biomassive, and radily converted into killowatt-hours.  oops;
 BP-Amoco is a largest (USA) distributor
 (see "Supply and Demand?  It's the Cartels, Stupid!"
 in New Federalist (pre-July Fourth issue,
 which also contains the report on the conference
 before the Italian Parliament, Finance Cmte.,
 where they passed the resolution absolving the debt,
 with no IMF-style conditionalities; later,
 the resolution was passed without dissent by both houses,
 which part was reported in Saturdays LATimes, but
 not in NYTimes).

 thus quoth:
  Anyone have any thoughts regarding the creation of a universal
  currency. How would it compare to Buckminster Fuller's idea of an
  energy based economy (anyone have a link to info on that) or
  Jacque Fresco's natural resource based economy?

  RESOURCE-BASED ECONOMY: http://www.nas.com/venus/txt01.shtml#RB-Econ

  Senate Banking panel passes dollarization bill:
  http://news.excite.com:80/news/r/000713/17/economy-dollarization

  Major US Economist Recommends 'Dollarization' for Zimbabwe
  Economy
  http://news.excite.com:80/news/pr/000711/dc-blackelectorate

  This page states that "huge currency declines occurred in
  Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea, and Indonesia after these
  nations abandoned their pegged rates despite vowing to continue
  them." http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~argentin/Argentina_April-99.html

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:40:30 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH lurches forward (take two)

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   18-JUL-2000 22:40
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 is it not important to give the lie
 of the current Gush-Bore debate,
 about the need for using missiles to attack missiles?...
 unfortunately for the Gore thugs in the D party,
 this is the Bush-whacker's phoney substitute
 for Lyn's SDI (although "Star Wars, the Movie," did use lasers .-)
    they don't like being called, fascists, but
 will agree to stalinist tactics, and the label --
 I kid you not; that was tonight's revelation!

 thus quoth:
  Forgive if I don't toe your party line and say disdainful
  things about LLR's ill-conceived "science driver" as well.
  The idea of a "science driver" is OK, but the SDI format
  is way too 1900s.

 --The End Was Nigh!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:53:02 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: GRUNCH lurches forward (take two)
In-Reply-To:  <200007190540.e6J5eUg28782@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:40 PM 07/18/2000 -0700, you wrote:
><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   18-JUL-2000 22:40
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> is it not important to give the lie
> of the current Gush-Bore debate,
> about the need for using missiles to attack missiles?...
> unfortunately for the Gore thugs in the D party,
> this is the Bush-whacker's phoney substitute
> for Lyn's SDI (although "Star Wars, the Movie," did use lasers .-)

Yawn re Lyn's or anyone's sci-fantasies of irresponsible
squandering.  I don't care which day dream is the phonier.

>    they don't like being called, fascists, but
> will agree to stalinist tactics, and the label --
> I kid you not; that was tonight's revelation!

Ho hum re BushGore.  Not much of interest, changing channels
to more powerful and interesting shows.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:13:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Jerusalem
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000718225302.008ea320@pop.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Supranational corporations know how to share the same city
as HQS.  London is HQS for countless banks.

If we adopt the model of "network nation", we have no problem
with sharing a city.  It's the "contiguous, mutually exclusive
boundaries" model of nationhood which makes cities like
Jerusalem a bone of contention.

The maritime networks would never fall for such landlubber
nonsense.  The Fuller Projection tells it like it is:  one
island, one ocean.  The institution of nationhood is relatively
immature, clearly unsuited to the fast-moving realities of
our cyberspacey age.  Adapt, or fade -- maybe makes little
difference in the long run.

Note:  sharing infrastructure, designing systems, remains a
challenge.  Not saying that sharing Jerusalem is going to
make all the water-related issues disappear.  They're still
real.  But these are engineering challenges more than
political challenges.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:08:33 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   19-JUL-2000 16:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I think, there are two applicable doctrines of sovereignity: a)
 gravity places certain energetic restraints on commerce etc.; b)
 fundamentalist or literalist doctrine a la "The Left Behind."

 as for Gush and Bore of the two of the three American Nazi Parties,
 there's a related saying:
 They came for me ... but I was a closet Nazi, myself!

 Sir Henry's MAD is being replaced by "JR" Gushbore's SIN --
 ???

 --
 The Duke of Oil
 ! http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:58:39 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem
In-Reply-To:  <200007192308.e6JN8Xf00562@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Sir Henry's MAD is being replaced by "JR" Gushbore's SIN --
> ???
>

It's not SDI (of any description) or MAD -- as if these were
the only two alternatives.  Malthusians always forget "peaceful
co-existence" as a real possibility.

This blindness to peaceful options is partly why we're
marginalizing the Malthusians as irrelevant to the planning
process (they just don't have the educations to participate
competently -- but could learn, especially if motivated by
this growing sense of others networking around them
(power-hungry politicians and control freaks of all brands
usually don't like that sensation)).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:24:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      fluctuations
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

While on the topic of creating a universal currency...

An Asian man walked into the currency exchange in New
York with 2000 yen and walked out with $72.00.

The following week, he walked in with 2000 yen and was
handed $66.00.

He asked the teller, "Why get less money than got
last week?"

The teller says, "Fluctuations."

The man storms out, and just before slamming the door,
he turns around and shouts, "Fluc you Americans too!"

Cheers,
Dexter
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:20:42 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   19-JUL-2000 18:20
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 the folks who "backchannelled" with the SU for Reagan,
 on the actual military doctrine of SDI,
 were sidelined by the Bush Leaguers -- railroaded to jail,
 for that amongst other reasons.
    the co-ordinating author of NSM-200,
 the malthusian doctrine of using food as a weapon
 against developing nations (and us, eventually),
 was Sir Henry the K., and Bush is a sort of a rival clone
 of his, in too-many respects.
    these people, that is the networks of Brown Bros. Harriman,
 earth's biggest private bank in WW2, are trying
 to co-oprdinate a media buy-in of "JR" Bush,
 with their preferred opposition being "JR" Gore
 (both are basically scions of oil, the second generation, but
 the Bushes are 3 gens of Skull and Bones (the "racist nightmare
 at Yale;" see ch.7, below).  this includes the recent take-over
 of the Times by the Chicago conglomerate,
 with its leadership hysterically prepared for a repeat
 of the'68 DemCon, "with millennial characteristics" and
 968+ hours of coverage by a self-confirmed Yahoo! (tm),
 Ted "the rough producer" Turner (for a convention that lasts
 only about 96 hours; he has many outlets),
 who also supports the Ruckus Society (sik).
    15000 supposed mediafolk have their Confederate General,
 and all of the plans for the Staples (Yahoo!) Center,
 as published in a glossy Times insert (a scandal of payola,
 as well), for "practice" is online sessions of "DOOM-Con (tm)."
    you cannot say that Lyn is malthusian,
 just because he is a realist of some sort;
 you can certainly argue against the realism of those scenarios,
 Earth!...  as it is,
 Booshgore insist upon deploying what is only
 to be aimed at the arsenals of "rogue nations,"
 recently renamed by Madame Albright (a follower,
 it turns out, explicilty of the doctrines of HGWells,
 viz the air-war doctrine over Yugoslavia, thus
 of Bertrand Russell et al; thus,
 it is intended to keep would-be Nebuchadnezzers, like Hussein,
 in a perpetually uppity state.
    and, the National Cmtes., including the Council of the Greenshirts,
 apparently wish the coronation of Gushbore, so badly, that
 they have nullified the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (AD,
 if any) -- and have tried to keep it, a secret, along
 with the rest of Lyn's campaign!
    (I was kept from attending a meeting
 of the SM Dem Club, by the subterfuge of being told that
 the meeting was on the "last Wednesday" of the month,
 rather than the actual fourth one; of course,
 there are many months with 5 Wednesdays, but I was glad of it,
 because, in searching for the Club, I found another meeting,
 in which a bogus educational doctrine was being formulated
 for our schooldistrict !-)

 thus quoth:
  This blindness to peaceful options is partly why we're
  marginalizing the Malthusians as irrelevant to the planning
  process (they just don't have the educations to participate

 --The End Was Nigh!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:25:08 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

It seems to me that old hatred disappears as its
champions die.  Some is passed along to the children
but there is a net decrease, cosmically speaking.
Sort of along the lines of, "No one can learn less."
Wealth always increases (except for the occasional
hydrogen bomb).

Dick

--- Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:
> Supranational corporations know how to share the
> same city
> as HQS.  London is HQS for countless banks.
>
> If we adopt the model of "network nation", we have
> no problem
> with sharing a city.  It's the "contiguous, mutually
> exclusive
> boundaries" model of nationhood which makes cities
> like
> Jerusalem a bone of contention.
>
> The maritime networks would never fall for such
> landlubber
> nonsense.  The Fuller Projection tells it like it
> is:  one
> island, one ocean.  The institution of nationhood is
> relatively
> immature, clearly unsuited to the fast-moving
> realities of
> our cyberspacey age.  Adapt, or fade -- maybe makes
> little
> difference in the long run.
>
> Note:  sharing infrastructure, designing systems,
> remains a
> challenge.  Not saying that sharing Jerusalem is
> going to
> make all the water-related issues disappear.
> They're still
> real.  But these are engineering challenges more
> than
> political challenges.
>
> Kirby


=====
Dick FischbeckHubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\\There are no bad kids!!>Do your own thinking.     UTOPIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:21:09 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Don't feed this robot meat
Comments: To: "tetworld@listbot.com" <tetworld@listbot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A robot with a taste for flesh?
http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0722/feed.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:59:04 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   20-JUL-2000 17:59
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 you know, Kirbo may have thought that
 I was going to froth at the mouth
 over his Yahoo!ing for "The City" of London
 (a.k.a. the highrise financial dystrict),
 which indeed has much of the requisite infostructure
 to be glboal HQ for LAWCAP or GRUNCH or what ever
 you should call it.  or,
 as we try to show, it certainly already is, although
 they did officially change the name of th'Empire,
 back in the'70s (this is supposed to be retroreflected
 in the cuddly joke of British Intelligence,
 that is propunded in "Austin Powers" -- as indeed
 in the original Bond series, and derivatives
 like "The Man from UNCLE" -- although utter tripe;
 the sequel had a bigger advertizing budget,
 than it did for production, in order
 to engulf the "cult-hit" status of the first,
 fly-by-night Cnadian effort).
    this is by way of saying,
 you world federalists (who are not doops) laready have
 a platform OS, which is not "USA-OS;"
 just remember that niether "JR" Bush nor Gore,
 know the meaning of the word, republic (or
 they're not saying, so !-)

 thus quoth:
  > Supranational corporations know how to share the
  > same city
  > as HQS.  London is HQS for countless banks.
  >
  > If we adopt the model of "network nation", we have
  > no problem

 --London Calling!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:21:37 PDT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         philip szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] Don't feed this robot meat
Comments: To: Tetworld@listbot.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>Tetworld Peace Through Development Project - >http://netword.com/Tetworld

>A robot with a taste for flesh?
>http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0722/feed.html

Pathologically Lying's (point of view's truths-and-falsehoods)
are both...mathematical ANECDOTES:

We now have the capabilities of building one or a lot of these.
It didn't really come from the usual institutions, though. It
was put together by the unknown, superstitiously fretted, and
the outside world, of outside of our own boundaries of earth.

The whole number set we're looking for are provided by "minimal
set" B. Fuller who never really dwelt much into Medicines' Arena!
But, still satisfaction is guarenteed. The point of view hence are
the esteemed opinions of the "spinning ball" finishes:

It have capability of eating used food "by products". It will only
eat the scraps left on the table. Since the Frankenstein Robotoid
needs regeneration, anyway. It will eat diseased flesh. It has to
be "regenerated--probably--once every week". The toxic building
up will kill others that are more human, or fleshy.

Anyway--if anybody thinks this is SciFi, it's because we were given
the chance to expand our knowledge-base, once. With this free gift,
we could have been a contender for Space Travel. But, we stuck with
the old superstitions thinking they were actually Gods' Coming For
Human Flesh. And--they did. But, they were actually controlled by
their Robot Masters. Who took them back, left only two behind one
thinks. Who's left behind of two has been consequently destroyed by
the Air Force Personnel, one believes, way back then! Because humans
knew nothing of the medicine that made it; just as though today,
when we know absolutely nothing of the medicine or forensics that
makes AIDS/HIV, hence.

This then are the discoveries of mathematical forensicology, from or
of Other Galaxical Movements. But, again, people of planet earth which
are now and back-then usually of a certain racial-extraction for
technology! These, yesteryear scientist then, were "very predisposed".
Not much, then have changes are WWII politics, still today.
Remembering McCarthism Wake, the predispostion have had gotten
much practicality for Continental Warfare, and National Paranoia.
But, the message-givers (who has cared-not about capture and who
has provings as themselves as "very mortal" by their earth agendas)
has taken other thinking about "survival" by their mindset, by
the accounts of mathematical forensicology. Remembering, they do
not live the "earth" their Dark Age, or the sadism trends. Being
then same today but mistaken for animals, with the same
Robotoids...eating "used up... flesh".

More of these will have Edward Applewhite. Of course, for all
the reasons "minimal set" described, herein.

He will deny accessibility. Saying: "...these are...vegitarians".

Mathsmith_sm_@hotmail.com, Philip

enclosure: this dedicated to Kirby Urners search-for-knowledge.
------------------------------------------------------------------



________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:38:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] Don't feed this robot meat

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   20-JUL-2000 19:38
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 ah, sounds like (I cannot tell from the header, really)
 our old Cap'n Mitch; methinx
 to call him, now, Soylent Greymatter!

 thus quoth:
  This then are the discoveries of mathematical forensicology, from or
  of Other Galaxical Movements. But, again, people of planet earth which

 --London Calling!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:30:40 PDT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         philip szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] Don't feed this robot meat (school green readout)
Comments: To: Tetworld@listbot.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_df9_417a$408f"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_df9_417a$408f
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_7115_417a$408f"


------=_NextPart_001_7115_417a$408f
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>Tetworld Peace Through Development Project-
>http://netword.com/Tetworld

>A robot with a taste for flesh?
>http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0722/feed.html

Pathologically Lying's (point of view's
truths-and-falsehoods) are both...mathematical
ANECDOTES:

We now have the capabilities of building one or a
lot of these. It didn't really come from the usual
institutions, though. It was put together by the
unknown, superstitiously fretted, and the outside
world, of outside of our own boundaries of earth.

The whole number set we're looking for are provided
by "minimal set" B. Fuller who never really dwelt
much into Medicines' Arena! But, still satisfaction
is guarenteed. The point of view hence are the
esteemed opinions of the "spinning ball" finishes:

It have capability of eating used food "by products".
It will only eat the scraps left on the table. Since
the Frankenstein Robotoid needs regeneration, anyway.
It will eat diseased flesh. It has to be "regenerated
--probably--once every week". The toxic building up
will kill others that are more human, or fleshy.

Anyway--if anybody thinks this is SciFi, it's because
we were given the chance to expand our knowledge-base,
once. With this free gift, we could have been a
contender for Space Travel. But, we stuck with the
old superstitions thinking they were actually Gods'
Coming For Human Flesh. And--they did. But, they
were actually controlled by their Robot Masters.
Who took them back, left only two behind one thinks.
Who's left behind of two has been consequently
destroyed by the Air Force Personnel, one believes,
way back then! Because humans knew nothing of the
medicine that made it; just as though today, when
we know absolutely nothing of the medicine or
forensics that makes AIDS/HIV, hence.

This then are the discoveries of mathematical
forensicology, from or of Other Galaxical Movements.
But, again, people of planet earth which are now
and back-then usually of a certain racial-extraction
for technology! These, yesteryear scientist then,
were "very predisposed". Not much, then have changes
are WWII politics, still today. Remembering McCarthism
Wake, the predispostion have had gotten much
practicality for Continental Warfare, and National
Paranoia. But, the message-givers (who has cared-not
about capture and who has provings as themselves as
"very mortal" by their earth agendas) has taken
other thinking about "survival" by their mindset,
by the accounts of mathematical forensicology.
Remembering, they do not live the "earth" their
Dark Age, or the sadism trends. Being then same
today but mistaken for animals, with the same
Robotoids...eating "used up... flesh".

More of these will have Edward Applewhite. Of course,
for all the reasons "minimal set" described, herein.

He will deny accessibility. Saying: "...these
are...vegitarians".

Mathsmith_sm_@hotmail.com, Philip

enclosure: this dedicated to Kirby Urners
search-for-knowledge.
------------------------------------------------------------------



________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------=_NextPart_001_7115_417a$408f
Content-Type: text/html

<html><body bgcolor='#ffffff'>
<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 height=190 width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<tr>
<td width="80" background="cid:part_00$417a$408f@hotmail.com" nowrap>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" valign="top"><font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#427D64"><table><tr><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC" width=1>&nbsp;</td><td width=5>&nbsp;</td><td>Tetworld Peace Through Development Project-
<br>http://netword.com/Tetworld
<br></td></tr></table>
<br><table><tr><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC" width=1>&nbsp;</td><td width=5>&nbsp;</td><td>A robot with a taste for flesh?
<br>http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0722/feed.html
<br></td></tr></table>
<br>Pathologically Lying's (point of view's
<br>truths-and-falsehoods) are both...mathematical
<br>ANECDOTES:
<br>
<br>We now have the capabilities of building one or a
<br>lot of these. It didn't really come from the usual
<br>institutions, though. It was put together by the
<br>unknown, superstitiously fretted, and the outside
<br>world, of outside of our own boundaries of earth.
<br>
<br>The whole number set we're looking for are provided
<br>by &quot;minimal set&quot; B. Fuller who never really dwelt
<br>much into Medicines' Arena! But, still satisfaction
<br>is guarenteed. The point of view hence are the
<br>esteemed opinions of the &quot;spinning ball&quot; finishes:
<br>
<br>It have capability of eating used food &quot;by products&quot;.
<br>It will only eat the scraps left on the table. Since
<br>the Frankenstein Robotoid needs regeneration, anyway.
<br>It will eat diseased flesh. It has to be &quot;regenerated
<br>--probably--once every week&quot;. The toxic building up
<br>will kill others that are more human, or fleshy.
<br>
<br>Anyway--if anybody thinks this is SciFi, it's because
<br>we were given the chance to expand our knowledge-base,
<br>once. With this free gift, we could have been a
<br>contender for Space Travel. But, we stuck with the
<br>old superstitions thinking they were actually Gods'
<br>Coming For Human Flesh. And--they did. But, they
<br>were actually controlled by their Robot Masters.
<br>Who took them back, left only two behind one thinks.
<br>Who's left behind of two has been consequently
<br>destroyed by the Air Force Personnel, one believes,
<br>way back then! Because humans knew nothing of the
<br>medicine that made it; just as though today, when
<br>we know absolutely nothing of the medicine or
<br>forensics that makes AIDS/HIV, hence.
<br>
<br>This then are the discoveries of mathematical
<br>forensicology, from or of Other Galaxical Movements.
<br>But, again, people of planet earth which are now
<br>and back-then usually of a certain racial-extraction
<br>for technology! These, yesteryear scientist then,
<br>were &quot;very predisposed&quot;. Not much, then have changes
<br>are WWII politics, still today. Remembering McCarthism
<br>Wake, the predispostion have had gotten much
<br>practicality for Continental Warfare, and National
<br>Paranoia. But, the message-givers (who has cared-not
<br>about capture and who has provings as themselves as
<br>&quot;very mortal&quot; by their earth agendas) has taken
<br>other thinking about &quot;survival&quot; by their mindset,
<br>by the accounts of mathematical forensicology.
<br>Remembering, they do not live the &quot;earth&quot; their
<br>Dark Age, or the sadism trends. Being then same
<br>today but mistaken for animals, with the same
<br>Robotoids...eating &quot;used up... flesh&quot;.
<br>
<br>More of these will have Edward Applewhite. Of course,
<br>for all the reasons &quot;minimal set&quot; described, herein.
<br>
<br>He will deny accessibility. Saying: &quot;...these
<br>are...vegitarians&quot;.
<br>
<br>Mathsmith_sm_@hotmail.com, Philip
<br>
<br>enclosure: this dedicated to Kirby Urners
<br>search-for-knowledge.
<br>------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>
<br>
<br></font></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com/">http://www.hotmail.com</a><br></body></html>

------=_NextPart_001_7115_417a$408f--

------=_NextPart_000_df9_417a$408f
Content-Type: image/gif
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-ID: <part_00$417a$408f@hotmail.com>
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------=_NextPart_000_df9_417a$408f--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:12:31 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      The not so humble bubble
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

FASTER THAN A SPEEDING BULLET
It's loud, it's rocket-powered, and it's fearsomely fast - a
supersonic
submarine faster than Concorde. For the moment it remains
fiction, but the
technology is available to change the nature of underwater
warfare. And
the key to this technology? The humble bubble.
http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0722/bullet.html

This bubble ain't so humble!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:39:30 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jerusalem
In-Reply-To:  <200007210059.e6L0x4q12444@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:59 PM 07/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:
><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   20-JUL-2000 17:59
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> you know, Kirbo may have thought that
> I was going to froth at the mouth
> over his Yahoo!ing for "The City" of London

Just an example.  Any major metropolitan area would do.
Given the context, I wouldn't expect you to go ballistic,
unless you're even more "hard wired" than I realized.

> you world federalists (who are not doops) laready have
> a platform OS, which is not "USA-OS;"

Note:  USA OS is what Kirby calls the USA operating system.
It's a semantic innovation, designed to tie cyberspace to
government in ways that match the emerging realities a little
better.  "Cyber" connotes "steering" after all (responsive
to feedback -- a governing function).

>  > If we adopt the model of "network nation", we have
>  > no problem
>
> --London Calling!

If you have a problem with London, try Rio or Cape Town.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:32:35 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: looking for links
Comments: To: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I hear Wells Fargo Mortgage will consider financing geodesic domes.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "The DomeHome List" <rowley@quepaso.net>
To: <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 7:07 AM
Subject: looking for links


> Date:        7/21/00 8:49 PM
> From:        c a l i b a n, caliban@sharon.net
>
> looking for links/references to mortgage lenders who
> are amenable to those domes that we know and love.
>
> i'm ready to make a bid, just need the lender.
>
> VERy excited!!
> --
>  rocky mullin - chaotic good
>  http://caliban.sf.ca.us/
>  two strokes are faster than four!
>  this message was composed using the vi editor.
>
>  "i'm not very sharp- i just get things done"  -- steve lerner
>
>                 o
>            ===== The DomeHome Email List
>       ========== Web: http://www.domegroup.org
>    ============= Send posts to: DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com
>  =============== To unsubscribe, write: unsubscribe DomeHome-H
> ================ and send to this address: requests@h19.hoflin.com
>
> ** subscribe/unsubscribe to this list (under DOG LISTS) and subscribe to
> DOME at http://www.hoflin.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:06:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: looking for links
In-Reply-To:  <001f01bff58c$e3c79e40$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:32 AM 07/24/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I hear Wells Fargo Mortgage will consider financing geodesic domes.
>
>Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
>Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

We should note that Bucky himself was dismissive of the
mortgage industry (was more into checkout/recycle -- more
like the terms on which people occupy cubicles at work).

Also, these kit domes, though often gorgeous, are still
suburban construction industry creatures, not products
of aerospace tech.  We don't have good models of what
Bucky was talking about, beyond a few prototypes.

If we get a lot of middle class USAers living in suburban
or rural domes, each paying a mortgage to Wells Fargo,
we'll be no closer to a realization of Bucky's hopes for
humanity than we are right now.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:41:09 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      The Dot Force Divide
Comments: To: "tetworld@listbot.com" <tetworld@listbot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

The Jubilee 2000 group called this a "squandered summit." It's
clear that governments have little to offer in bringing
prosperity to the world's masses.

http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,17075,00.html?nl=dnh

Get Turned On, World Leaders Say, But Do They?

Huddled in their swank, $750 million beachfront meeting, Group of
Eight leaders let loose a PR brainstorm: Let's bring the New Economy
to the world's poor! The media skewered them for it and pointed out
that the pols might not be the best guys to close the so-called
digital divide.

With leading nations' economies in decent shape, G-8 members - France,
Italy, Germany, Russia, Canada, Japan, Britain and the U.S. had not
much else to do in Okinawa but look at developing countries and pledge
a few ideas for building them up. According to media reports, the idea
is that Japan will form a Digital Opportunity Task Force - look
for it
to become known by the acronym "Dot Force" - to enlist the help
of the
private sector in bringing technology to developing nations. After
studying the problem for a year, responsibility for the Dot Force will
be handed off to the Italians, host of next year's summit, the BBC
reported.

Reporters hooted at the G8 leaders' effort. For one thing, Japanese
Prime Minister Yoshiro Mori says he's never touched a computer, a
tidbit the London Times called "ironic" and Reuters pegged "an
embarrassing admission." And as another Reuters filing pointed out,
the Web is far from global. According to the wire service, only
one in
20 people around the world are online, and 60 percent of them
live in
North America, even though it accounts for just 5 percent of the
world's population.

Aid agencies pointed out that poor nations have bigger problems to
grapple with than, say, e-mail. "We can't eat computers," MSNBC quoted
Kewesi Owusu of Jubilee 2000, a coalition that campaigns for debt
forgiveness. Reading and writing were also mentioned as skills that
rich nations might want to advocate before they try to get other
nations logged on. Global fat cats weren't the only ones who took
advantage of the three-day summit's grandstanding opportunities:
Reuters reported that members of Jubilee 2000 set a laptop on
fire to
protest the Dot Force idea.

But Russian prez Vladimir Putin had a brainstorm of his own. To get
the ball rolling on this digital thing, why don't the world leaders
swap e-mail addresses? Easy for the ex-KGB spy, strutting on his first
world stage, but not so for other honchos, the Guardian pointed out.
Prime Minister Tony Blair only recently completed a crash course on
the Net, and earlier this year French President Jacques Chirac
had to
ask what a mouse was. Talk about a digital divide. - Deborah Asbrand

Related Links:

G8 Forms 'DOT Force' to Tackle Digital Divide (Reuters)
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2606545,00.html

G-8 Offers Proposals to Ease Poverty
http://www.msnbc.com/news/434547.asp

G8 to Address Digital Divide (Reuters)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/436000.asp

G-8 Leaders Call for Solutions to Rich-Poor Divide
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28333-2000Jul22.html

G8: The 'Dot Force' Challenge
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_847000/847532.stm

£500M Spent on Meeting to Discuss Poverty
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=002274358315117&rtmo=lnSAlFvt&atmo=YYYYYYYp&pg=/et/00/7/22/wdebt222.html

Putin Tells World Leaders to Log On
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4043486,00.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:42:32 +0000
Reply-To:     SpaceshipEarth@mail.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      bubble-based switch design
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

TINY BUBBLES -- In the world of network signal-switching, a
millisecond is a
millennium. Scientists hope a new bubble-based switch design can
help speed things up.
http://www.business2.com/content/magazine/vision/2000/07/11/13973
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jul 2000 02:20:32 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      North Korea ready to make giant leap into space exploration
Comments: To: "tetworld@listbot.com" <tetworld@listbot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

At the G-8 summit, "Putin reported back on an offer made to him
by North Korean leader Kim Jong Il to scrap the nation's missile
program in return for help on space exploration. "

Just what one of the poorest Asian countries needs, space
exploration! I'm all for it, let them join the International
Space Station. Sounds like they need help developing longer range missiles.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:58:57 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Any radii sweeps out the surface of its minimum systemic
              spherical surface in 4 cycles.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael Mitchell wrote:

> The tetrahedron of cycles here is evident.  This is 1440 degrees to be a
> minimum orbital system to its in and out area of the system.
>
> The fact that you have inside the system, the system itself and the outside
> side the system equaling 4 radii cycles or a tetra-orbitronical
> event, shows that 1440 degrees is the real calculation of all awareness
> acting systems in the universe, the system as you, surrounded by the macro
> and the micro tetrahedron that is 720 degrees each being 1440 degrees.
> This is what I call unitivity = 1440 degrees.
>
> The difference of you and the universe is 1440 degrees. 720 macro and 720
> micro these three events, you, macro and micro is
> the syntrivity of unitivity.  The unitivity volume is all three being one
> in what I call unitivity. The one volume that is always
> in a state of dymaxion change the speed of light. This volume has two radii
> from each of us and they are the orbotronic and
> unitific radii.
>
> The orbitronic radii that are sight seen curves with the light being bent,
> or the precessional forces on all other forces.
> The radii of unitivity is a true radii that does not bend and is
> mathematically considered true, with out deviation or variation.
> These are the two radii for the dymaxion volume to all experience to date
> and are changing as we pass into the syntrivity of man,
> volumetrics, and time. It is based on the adaptation of the tools that we
> have as we invent farther micro and macro vision tools
> to extend our intellect into time or precessional orbitronical awareness of
> unitivity.
> This is the origins of unity and subdivision that forms multiplication of
> unity.
> This is synergetics, and volumetrics of unitivity.
> Man, relativity, and the universe = syntrivity in unitivity by orbitronics.
>
> (c) copy right 2000 MS Mitchell
>
> Michael Mitchell wrote:
>
> > Any radii that moves through 4 complete cycles sweeps out the area that
> > is equal to the omni directional minimum system sphere.
> > All events being precessional will always have a systemic area sweep of
> > 4 or a tetrahedron of cycles to be a minimum system sphere.
> > The area of the tetracyclichedron radii = the minimum systemic spheres
> > surface area.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:46:41 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      a century of prosperity for all
Comments: To: "tetworld@listbot.com" <tetworld@listbot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

G8 summit ends with vow to seek 'a century of prosperity for
all':
http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/07/23/g8.summit.01/index.html

In this age of "accelerating acceleration" to speak of "a century
of prosperity for all" seems a little inadequate. As  Muhammad
Yunus, founder of the Grameen Bank which makes microloans to the
very poor, said 'A date should be set for freeing the world from
poverty once and for all.'

Puting that date off somewhere into the next century would be too
vague and puts it too far into the future. People aren't
accustomed to thinking in long terms anymore, especially young
people who are going to be at the center of the Millennial Design
Science Revolution. People have become more and more accustomed
to thinking in terms of short term gains. A decade is more
realistic. It's achievable, and gives the goal urgency and focus.

Timothy Morgan wrote in, I believe in an astrophysics magazine,
'There is no example of any major undertaking in U.S. history
that took longer than a decade to achieve. The transcontinental
railroad, the Panama Canal, Hoover Dam, Project Apollo, and every
war it won took roughly 10 years or less to complete.'

Buckminster Fuller said, 'We have the capability, which can be
fully realized within ten years, of producing and sustaining a
higher standard of living for all humanity than that ever
heretofore experienced or dreamt of by any. This is not an
opinion or a hope - it is an engineeringly demonstrable fact.
This can be done using only the already proven technology and
with the already mined, refined, and in-recirculating physical
resources. This will be an inherently sustainable physical
success for all humanity and all its generations to come.'

A recent article in Business 2.0 quotes management consultant
Gary Hamel as saying, "We have reached the end of incrementalism
in the quest to create new wealth... There is an inflection point
where the quest for divergence is transformed into a quest for
convergence, and a new collective viewpoint emerges."

The collective viewpoint until now has been that there is not
enough resources to go around, and people diverged into groups to
compete against one another to survive. That viewpoint is loosing
sway. A new collective viewpoint has emerged out of the new
economy, that says that through the efficiency of collaboration
and new technologies, there can be prosperity for all. That
viewpoint has reached critical mass.

There will always be nay sayers, but I believe there is a
critical mass of people that are ready to move forward and use
our potential to wipe out poverty from the face of the Earth.
They're looking for a rallying point to get the ball rolling.
Lets get the ball rolling and create a world of prosperity "for
all humanity and all its generations to come." The time has come!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:46:48 PDT
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         philip szeto <flexsz@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] a century of prosperity for all
Comments: To: Tetworld@listbot.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Anecdote: why do everybody tell their children,
"they want to colonize the moon"? When it was
always the Adults...that...wanted to go...there.

>Science Revolution. People have become more and more accustomed to thinking
>in terms of short term gains.

You should tell that to the Boss, the Snyders!
Their shortsightedness about science could cost
them their website, I think, on the longer hall.
Probably, lost already, because they have
thinking as movies' better as massage tool
...while the website...looks wholly anemic...
teaching tool. I think television's
"prostitutions and pimping" rise are
the hidden benefactors. These cycles
has given wake to the ten year faddish, term.

>A decade is more realistic. It's achievable, and gives the goal urgency and
>focus.

Two decades are what they took for the science
interim. They were already 53 years late when
the Founder started. Meaning, there have
astoundingly confirmations of his "minimum-set
accumulative order" somewheres on earth. But,
it cannot be for prostitution sake, such as
"his art" being on television. What the
advancement as (.gov) confirmations couldn't
ever be replaced, with the ten year faddish,
replacing with another "state of emergency".
And, hidden by the next-of-kin for prostiution
of the arts' reasons, henceforth. That starts
another quick-fix of "short term", (these ten
years). I think in ontology, they probably
reserved a Special Hell for Lucas and Company
for his specialty promo with Laser Swords?
Supplanting global-warfare with planets, as
battleship's arena, promos, ten years'
quick-fix.

>Timothy Morgan wrote in, I believe in an astrophysics magazine, 'There is
>no example of any major undertaking in U.S. history
>that took longer than a decade to achieve. The transcontinental railroad,
>the Panama Canal, Hoover Dam, Project Apollo, and every war it won took
>roughly 10 years or less to complete.'

What have the next movement in check, by
morals. Apollo Eleven have had not any
standard for a long time. It takes
approximately twenty-years for leaving
for Outer Space or more, beyond moons
distances. Because, earth can barely
"leave at all" by furthering astrophysical
properties. These were the strategic plans
surmountables, even with help of another
galaxies' accumulative orders' confirmations:
those with other than earth "as seen"
accumulative-order discoveries. The
comparison has not any sense; Outer Space
are not pool tables with billiard balls...
ten years, or less for nuclear holocaust
awaiting too. That which makes the unknown
of Outer Space, unknowable, forever excuses
and abatements. That would seem apropriately
recoverable (.gov)...realistic standardization,
otherwise, next to TV's. Moon's composition
was completely different from that of Mars.

epilogue...compare these with never going
at all, whatsoever, "luck". I'd gave up
television, not excus' fir kids' world. We
are grown-ups, living in a grown-ups'
ATTENTION SPAN. Put your sandals on...we
are goin' fir a long walk; puttin' y'all
"laser swords" away...at home, forevers! 'Kay?



Mathsmith_sm_@hotmail.com, Philip
---------------------------------------------




________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:59:54 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      In a decade; prosperity
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFF651.5FACB080"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFF651.5FACB080
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Spaceship wrote:

G8 summit ends with vow to seek 'a century of prosperity for
all':
http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/07/23/g8.summit.01/index.html

In this age of "accelerating acceleration" to speak of "a century
of prosperity for all" seems a little inadequate. As  Muhammad
Yunus, founder of the Grameen Bank which makes microloans to the
very poor, said 'A date should be set for freeing the world from
poverty once and for all.'

Puting that date off somewhere into the next century would be too
vague and puts it too far into the future. People aren't
accustomed to thinking in long terms anymore, especially young
people who are going to be at the center of the Millennial Design
Science Revolution. People have become more and more accustomed
to thinking in terms of short term gains. A decade is more
realistic. It's achievable, and gives the goal urgency and focus.

Timothy Morgan wrote in, I believe in an astrophysics magazine,
'There is no example of any major undertaking in U.S. history
that took longer than a decade to achieve. The transcontinental
railroad, the Panama Canal, Hoover Dam, Project Apollo, and every
war it won took roughly 10 years or less to complete.'

Buckminster Fuller said, 'We have the capability, which can be
fully realized within ten years, of producing and sustaining a
higher standard of living for all humanity than that ever
heretofore experienced or dreamt of by any. This is not an
opinion or a hope - it is an engineeringly demonstrable fact.
This can be done using only the already proven technology and
with the already mined, refined, and in-recirculating physical
resources. This will be an inherently sustainable physical
success for all humanity and all its generations to come.'

A recent article in Business 2.0 quotes management consultant
Gary Hamel as saying, "We have reached the end of incrementalism
in the quest to create new wealth... There is an inflection point
where the quest for divergence is transformed into a quest for
convergence, and a new collective viewpoint emerges."

The collective viewpoint until now has been that there is not
enough resources to go around, and people diverged into groups to
compete against one another to survive. That viewpoint is loosing
sway. A new collective viewpoint has emerged out of the new
economy, that says that through the efficiency of collaboration
and new technologies, there can be prosperity for all. That
viewpoint has reached critical mass.

There will always be nay sayers, but I believe there is a
critical mass of people that are ready to move forward and use
our potential to wipe out poverty from the face of the Earth.
They're looking for a rallying point to get the ball rolling.
Lets get the ball rolling and create a world of prosperity "for
all humanity and all its generations to come." The time has come!

Then lets start a web site with all the facts and figures. If Kirby is =
right, and I agree with him, the internet savy (engineers I'm speaking =
about mostly) will understand an engineering point of view. Not a site =
about abstractions or theories, although I'd like a link from it to my =
"Pet" desert water dome page. : )

 Lets see if we can harness the brain power on the net to work out a =
decade plan. Use engineering to knock down the barriers created by =
politics and mythology. I'll start revising the web page I started about =
our solar energy import a while back.

Mark =20


------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFF651.5FACB080
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Spaceship wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>G8 summit ends with vow to seek 'a =
century of=20
prosperity for<BR>all':<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/07/23/g8.summit.01/index.htm=
l">http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/07/23/g8.summit.01/index.html</A>=
<BR><BR>In=20
this age of "accelerating acceleration" to speak of "a century<BR>of =
prosperity=20
for all" seems a little inadequate. As&nbsp; Muhammad<BR>Yunus, founder =
of the=20
Grameen Bank which makes microloans to the<BR>very poor, said 'A date =
should be=20
set for freeing the world from<BR>poverty once and for =
all.'<BR><BR>Puting that=20
date off somewhere into the next century would be too<BR>vague and puts =
it too=20
far into the future. People aren't<BR>accustomed to thinking in long =
terms=20
anymore, especially young<BR>people who are going to be at the center of =
the=20
Millennial Design<BR>Science Revolution. People have become more and =
more=20
accustomed<BR>to thinking in terms of short term gains. A decade is=20
more<BR>realistic. It's achievable, and gives the goal urgency and=20
focus.<BR><BR>Timothy Morgan wrote in, I believe in an astrophysics=20
magazine,<BR>'There is no example of any major undertaking in U.S.=20
history<BR>that took longer than a decade to achieve. The=20
transcontinental<BR>railroad, the Panama Canal, Hoover Dam, Project =
Apollo, and=20
every<BR>war it won took roughly 10 years or less to=20
complete.'<BR><BR>Buckminster Fuller said, 'We have the capability, =
which can=20
be<BR>fully realized within ten years, of producing and sustaining =
a<BR>higher=20
standard of living for all humanity than that ever<BR>heretofore =
experienced or=20
dreamt of by any. This is not an<BR>opinion or a hope - it is an =
engineeringly=20
demonstrable fact.<BR>This can be done using only the already proven =
technology=20
and<BR>with the already mined, refined, and in-recirculating=20
physical<BR>resources. This will be an inherently sustainable=20
physical<BR>success for all humanity and all its generations to =
come.'<BR><BR>A=20
recent article in Business 2.0 quotes management consultant<BR>Gary =
Hamel as=20
saying, "We have reached the end of incrementalism<BR>in the quest to =
create new=20
wealth... There is an inflection point<BR>where the quest for divergence =
is=20
transformed into a quest for<BR>convergence, and a new collective =
viewpoint=20
emerges."<BR><BR>The collective viewpoint until now has been that there =
is=20
not<BR>enough resources to go around, and people diverged into groups=20
to<BR>compete against one another to survive. That viewpoint is =
loosing<BR>sway.=20
A new collective viewpoint has emerged out of the new<BR>economy, that =
says that=20
through the efficiency of collaboration<BR>and new technologies, there =
can be=20
prosperity for all. That<BR>viewpoint has reached critical =
mass.<BR><BR>There=20
will always be nay sayers, but I believe there is a<BR>critical mass of =
people=20
that are ready to move forward and use<BR>our potential to wipe out =
poverty from=20
the face of the Earth.<BR>They're looking for a rallying point to get =
the ball=20
rolling.<BR>Lets get the ball rolling and create a world of prosperity=20
"for<BR>all humanity and all its generations to come." The time has=20
come!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Then lets start a web&nbsp;site with =
all the facts=20
and figures. If Kirby is right, and I agree with him, the internet savy=20
(engineers I'm speaking about mostly) will understand an engineering =
point of=20
view. Not a site about abstractions or theories, although I'd like a =
link from=20
it to my "Pet" desert water dome page. : )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;Lets see if we can&nbsp;harness =
the brain=20
power on the net to work out a decade&nbsp;plan. Use engineering to =
knock down=20
the barriers created by politics and mythology. I'll start revising the =
web page=20
I started about&nbsp;our solar energy import a while back.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark&nbsp; =
<BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFF651.5FACB080--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:26:33 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dexter Graphic <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
Comments: cc: RBringhurst@compuserve.com
In-Reply-To:  <002a01bfe2f1$54f4fa80$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Robert,

I think I've found the passage you were looking for. In "Ideas and
Integrities," pages 266 and 267, Fuller writes:

"Because there was a fundamental limit of weight displacement for a
given ship, the designers of the ship were confronted with the task
of providing an assembly which could operate successfully under
maximum hostility of Nature, in effect designing for the exploitation
of hurricanes, for sea-quakes severer than land-quakes, for daily
avalanches when mammoth seas curled over on the decks, for daily
flood--in fact for all conditions which threatened landed structures
less frequently."  ...

"If we except tents, shacks and temporary hutments, we may state
categorically that permanent buildings on the land were evolved in
an entirely different logic. Buildings on the land were designed for
permanence and therefore to withstand attacks of living enemies as
well as attacks of weather and time. Permanent buildings developed
essentially as fortresses and in order to be permanent even as
storages, had to be fashioned of stone. Wooden ships could last long
enough to make great wealth out of a few voyages. Ships had the high
priority technology, and the homes and shops in which the components
of the ships were fashioned could be evolved from simple fortuitous
building techniques long since enjoyed without benefit of engineers
or scientists in which materials not good enough for the ships would
do for the shop buildings. Piling up of stones or wood or earth
without thought of performance per pound, where inertia was a
fortification virtue, resulted in the building arts being practiced
without design reference to performance per pound ratios. All that
men asked of their landed buildings was that they should last through
siege and time..."

I hope this works for you.

Dexter


> -----Original Message-----
> From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joe S Moore
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 17:15
> To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> Subject: Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
>
>
> Dear Robert,
>
> Try as I might, I can't locate that quote. It could be in an
> article or some
> audio or video tape.  But I'm sure Bucky said it or something like it.  It
> sounds so like him.  I even looked in the 'Synergetics Dictionary', but no
> luck.  Sorry.
>
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Bringhurst" <RBringhurst@compuserve.com>
> To: "Joe Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 3:13 PM
> Subject: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
>
>
> > Dear Mr Moore,
> >
> > I am assured that you know more than almost anyone
> > else about the work of Buckminster Fuller. I wonder if
> > you can help me find something in his work.
> >
> > I am editing the selected writings of the Native Canadian artist
> > Bill Reid, who died two years ago. Among his papers is the
> > text of a lecture he gave on Native American dugout canoes.
> > He credits Buckminster Fuller with an important idea on this
> > theme, and I am attempting to find the source in Fuller's
> > writings.
> >         The passage in question, reads as follows:
> >
> > >> Buckminster Fuller may well have been right when he said
> > that the beginnings of design are found in the early work of those
> > who lived by and of the sea. For it is possible to build some kind
> > of structure merely by piling pieces of debris on top of one another
> > until you get something you can use, no matter how clumsy it may
> > be, provided you build it on land. But when you decide to go to sea,
> > you discover very soon that you have to contend with factors such
> > as weight to volume relationships, width to length ratios, relations
> > of strength to thickness, depth and shape to stability. And that's
> > only the beginning. You have to consider the nature of materials, to
> > invent the tools to effect their transformation so they can be used.
> > You have to consider means of propulsion and navigation: how to
> > get from here to there and back again without getting lost. <<
> >
> > I do not know whether some or all of this may be direct quotation
> > from Fuller. But in looking through his books, I have not yet found
> > a passage in which this idea is really raised. Watercraft are mentioned
> > very frequently, of course, but I have not yet found a passage where
> > Fuller says more or less explicitly "that the beginnings of design are
> > found in the early work of those who lived by and of the sea."
> > Do you know where I might find this theme in Fuller's work, or can you
> > suggest someone else who might know that work well enough to help me?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Robert Bringhurst
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:09:43 +0000
Reply-To:     mail@SpaceshipEarth.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Spaceship Earth <mail@SPACESHIPEARTH.COM>
Subject:      Re: In a decade; prosperity
Comments: To: "tetworld@listbot.com" <tetworld@listbot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mark:

Now there's a "can do" attitude.

What I see in the new economy magazines is that the idealistic
youth are leaving the free-wheeling tech-organizations and
startups in droves as they are taken over by the big
conglomerates and the culture of the organization is lost. For
instance, I read that the Wired magazine staff left in droves
after it was taken over by a big media interest and almost none
of the original staffers are left. The founders of these
companies usually leave after they sell out and are looking to
invest in businesses and organizations with a social conscience.
The new economy magazines such as Fast Company and Business 2.0
reflect a social conscience (and creativity) that is rare in a
business magazine. These people are looking for the next big
thing, and the next BIG thing is complete physical success for
all humanity, and they want to be a part of that. The energy is
flowing like never before in the direction of making the world
work.

The time truly has come, and the politicians are left sitting on
the sidelines unable to adapt. Politics is a culture of conflict
and crisis management, poorly adapted to leveraging the developed
nations prosperity to create prosperity for all humanity. They
are out of the loop.

I believe that the World Game site has developed a lot of
statistics. Statistics are for engineers and economist. We need
that, it won't work otherwise, but people aren't moved by
statistics. They're moved to act on emotion. It was the emotion
created by the heroic adventure of landing man on the moon that
made it an icon of popular culture. Fuller looked at making the
world work through the efficiency of technology, and he compiled
a lot of statistics to show that the Malthusian economic doctrine
was no longer valid and that we could make the world work for the
benefit of all humanity. To a  large degree, he was inspired to
do this because, as a child, his uncle took him aside and, using
the principles of Malthus and Darwin, explained to him that there
wasn't enough to go around, and that for him to live a
comfortable life he was going to have to exploit other people,
and he might as well get on with it. He didn't like that, he was
emotionally moved by it, and spent the rest of his life working
against it. I never saw the problem as being one of technology, I
always saw it as being one of inspiration and motivation. The
best way to inspire people with statistics is by using them to
create adventure games. Computer games are so successful because
they get people emotionally worked up. The most popular games do
this with a killingry mentality. For any "save the world game" to
be very successful, it's going to have to create a similar level
of emotional intensity.

Studies show that goals set on a difficult to achieve timetable
are the most successful. No doubt it is the emotional intensity
created by these difficult to achieve goals that contributes to
their success. The mind becomes intently focused on the goal as
it was with Apollo. When John F. Kennedy announced to the public
that he wanted to land a man on the moon in a decade, the
engineers at the newly formed NASA were shocked. They had no
statistics that would indicate the goal could be achieved. The
goal was achieved two years ahead of schedule.

> marksomers wrote:
>
> Then lets start a web site with all the facts and figures. If
> Kirby is right, and I agree with him, the internet savy
> (engineers I'm speaking about mostly) will understand an
> engineering point of view. Not a site about abstractions or
> theories, although I'd like a link from it to my "Pet" desert
> water dome page. : )
>
>  Lets see if we can harness the brain power on the net to work
> out a decade plan. Use engineering to knock down the barriers
> created by politics and mythology. I'll start revising the web
> page I started about our solar energy import a while back.
>
> Mark
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:25:01 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Buckminster Fuller bookcase
Comments: To: sbyblr@swbell.net
Comments: cc: Robert Burkhardt <bobwb@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Brad,

Scroll down to "Storage, Hanging" on this web page:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/FullerRB-2-Fz.htm

I don't believe they are in production any longer.
I'm pretty sure the patent has expired.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Burkhardt" <bobwb@juno.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 9:54 AM
Subject: FWD: Buckminster Fuller bookcase


> Hi Joe,
>
> I thought you might be the person to help this guy.
> Sorry if you've already seen this.
>
> Bob
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Brad Rockwell <sbyblr@swbell.net>
> To: bobwb@juno.com
> Sent: July 23, 2000 8:23:00 PM GMT
> Subject: Buckminster Fuller bookcase
>
> Seems like a few decades ago someone was manufacturing and selling
> Buckminster Fuller-designed bookcases that were suspended in air -- i.e.
> bookcases that did not need to go up against the wall of a dome.  Do you
> know if or where these are available?
>
> Brad Rockwell
>
> 1303 Norwood Rd.
> Austin, Texas 78722-1031
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:49:00 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] a century of prosperity for all
In-Reply-To:  <F248dhQYZkxOjmfCHJr00000a87@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> = Szeto
  = Urner

>You should tell that to the Boss, the Snyders!

This is stupid, putting the onus on the Snyders.
Bob made a good movie, and Allegra just did the
best she could.

>Their shortsightedness about science could cost
>them their website, I think, on the longer hall.
                                            ^^^^
                                            haul

The website is fine.  I designed the original one,
and it was left to languish after I turned the job
over [1].  I was furious about that, and have never
apologized to anyone for going ballistic.  But
that's all water under the bridge at this point.

I don't think Bucky ever had any expectation that
his closest family members would somehow spearhead
the design science program.  He trusted cosmos and
big wheels, had enough of collaborators and co-
conspirators around him to not have the burden
fall to Jaime & Co.

Of course he hoped his nearest and dearest would
operate with integrity -- but that's what he hoped
about all of us.

As long as there's a BFI, it should be held to a
minimum standard.  In my book, it currently meets
those standards -- Stanford has the more important
responsibilities by this time and according to Ed,
who had lunch out there and toured the facilities,
they're doing a fine job.

Kirby

[1] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/docs/bfi.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:29:35 -0400
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         john belt <belt@OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Buckminster Fuller bookcase
In-Reply-To:  <000701bff726$72a38440$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        In regard to the "hang it all" shelf system.  A few
years ago they were made available again.  I think that the
company that manufactured them was KNOLL INTERNATIONAL, but
not positive.  It seems that the price was about one grand.
You might write BFI to ask them who produced the units.  The
drawings are in the INVENTIONS book as i recall.
        Best Regards to all,  john belt
.....................................................
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Joe S Moore wrote:
>Brad,
> I don't believe they are in production any longer.
> I'm pretty sure the patent has expired.
> Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
.............................................>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > Seems like a few decades ago someone was manufacturing and selling
> > Buckminster Fuller-designed bookcases that were suspended in air -- i.e.
> > bookcases that did not need to go up against the wall of a dome.  Do you
> > know if or where these are available?
> >
> > Brad Rockwell
> >
> > 1303 Norwood Rd.
> > Austin, Texas 78722-1031
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:43:27 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Executions vs. Abortion

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   26-JUL-2000 22:43
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 you know, occaissionally, I have to stop my fingers
 from issuing expletives, but I luckily don't type, fast
 (just wait, til I get my Emacs-style going !-)
    a vote for Nader is less of a vote for Bush,
 than is a vote for Gore:
 the Democrat party has pushed the voting to all-time lows,
 a a matter of strategy, whether consciosly or not,
 by the proverbial annointment and trashing
 of the primaries (and the VRA of'65;
 do you not believe this is possible, in this country?...
 you do not even know of Gore's actual "negatives"
 of his career, although they pale in many respects
 to the senior Bush's; they are quite profound,
 such as his association with Chernomyrdin, and
 the resulting collapse of LTCM (hedge-fund),
 due to betting on Russina bonds -- a both
 of them were straining to gain power,
 *sans* election.)
    frankly, you seem to be delusional --
 I should know; right?...  I mean,
 the website for the Socialist Party ?!?

 thus quoth:
  There are times in political life when one is tempted to give up. How is
 it

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:46:00 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: The Dot Force Divide

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   26-JUL-2000 22:45
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 dude, you forgot the Italian Parliament's leadership
 on the issue of a "jubilee" year.

 thus quoth:
  Related Links:

  G8 Forms 'DOT Force' to Tackle Digital Divide (Reuters)
  http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2606545,00.html

  G-8 Offers Proposals to Ease Poverty
  http://www.msnbc.com/news/434547.asp

  G8 to Address Digital Divide (Reuters)
  http://www.msnbc.com/news/436000.asp

  G-8 Leaders Call for Solutions to Rich-Poor Divide
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28333-2000Jul22.html

  G8: The 'Dot Force' Challenge
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_847000/847532.stm

  #500M Spent on Meeting to Discuss Poverty

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=002274358315117&rtmo=lnSAlFvt&atmo=YYYYYY
 Yp&pg
 =/et/00/7/22/wdebt222.html

  Putin Tells World Leaders to Log On
  http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4043486,00.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:02:20 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      decade prosperity
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF75D.EF0589C0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF75D.EF0589C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've done some more work on the energy page I created earlier. Most =
notable I've gone back to just using a disc in my math model unless of =
course someone would like to do the intergal.

 http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html

 Solar energy -income.

Mark=20

P.S. Last presy election I wrote in Nader, this year I think I'll write =
in Phillip Agee.

:)=20



------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF75D.EF0589C0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've done some more work on the energy =
page I=20
created earlier. Most notable I've gone back to just using a disc in my =
math=20
model unless of course someone would like to do the =
intergal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html">htt=
p://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/cosmicaccounting.html</A></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;Solar energy =
-income.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>P.S. Last presy election I wrote in =
Nader, this=20
year I think I'll write in Phillip Agee.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>:)&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF75D.EF0589C0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:20:54 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] a century of prosperity for all
Comments: To: AFSnyder@aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kirby Urner wrote:

> > = Szeto
>   = Urner
>
> >You should tell that to the Boss, the Snyders!
>
> This is stupid, putting the onus on the Snyders.
> Bob made a good movie, and Allegra just did the
> best she could.
>
> >Their shortsightedness about science could cost
> >them their website, I think, on the longer hall.
>                                             ^^^^
>                                             haul
>
> The website is fine.  I designed the original one,
> and it was left to languish after I turned the job
> over [1].  I was furious about that, and have never
> apologized to anyone for going ballistic.  But
> that's all water under the bridge at this point.
>
> I don't think Bucky ever had any expectation that
> his closest family members would somehow spearhead
> the design science program.  He trusted cosmos and
> big wheels, had enough of collaborators and co-
> conspirators around him to not have the burden
> fall to Jaime & Co.
>
> Of course he hoped his nearest and dearest would
> operate with integrity -- but that's what he hoped
> about all of us.
>
> As long as there's a BFI, it should be held to a
> minimum standard.  In my book, it currently meets
> those standards -- Stanford has the more important
> responsibilities by this time and according to Ed,
> who had lunch out there and toured the facilities,
> they're doing a fine job.
>
> Kirby
>
> [1] http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/docs/bfi.html

Bucky's family Rules. I like it that way,
Without Bob's book, and Jamie and Bob's films we would all have missed a
lot more
than anything any of you on this list will ever do, and that includes
me. If I do half as much
as Bob Snyder I will be very happy to have served humanity with such
integrity in one life time.
Michael S. Mitchell!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:35:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: decade prosperity

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   27-JUL-2000 21:35
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 very amusing, although his purview
 from the "Association of Retired Agents" is rather limited
 --nevermind the God-am database!

 --The Bay of Pigs!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

 thus quoth:
  P.S. Last presy election I wrote in Nader, this year I think I'll write =
  in Phillip Agee.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:23:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Mass Extinction

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   27-JUL-2000 22:23
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I notice, Karen, that you strove not to say, "global warming;"
 thank you!

 this "6th mass-extinction since life began" probably ignores
 the rather awesome changes in the biota that occur,
 at the rapid onsets (and collapses) of interglacial phases
 (see the article by G.Woillard in Nature,
 "Rapid onset of the Eemian interglacial *sensu strictu*,"
 based upon her study of the Grand Pile, France, peat bog).
    why do you not take Gore (and/or his co-author)
 at his word, of being basically a fundamentalist greeny,
 if not a malthusismo -- and Nader is in the *party* of a color,
 which promotes the ratification of protocols,
 going much-farther than Kyoto's, and
 certainly agrees with them that "nuke-yellar is ee-vil," and
 so forth; doesn't that offer essential implications?
    why is not the fact that both Gush and Bore are relics
 of two generations of "fossilized fuel" conglomerates,
 implicate them in the recent doubling of gasoline prices
 --without any provident creation of a sturdy source
 of "e" for their vaunted "zero tolerance for emmission" type
 of automobiles--we get rolling brownouts, instead!...  why
 in Hell does antitrust ignore the fact that
 our largest dystributor of gasoline is now a British conglomerate
 (BP-Amoco-Arco), as well as the financial conglomerations?

 Nader's rhetoric against these forces of "trade is freedom" is fine,
 as far as it goes, but it's simply inadequate, as
 he does not quite grok the essential meaning of the word,
 republic (ni Bore, ni Bush -- or
 they ain't telling !-)

 thus quoth:
  It is important to work with whomever we elect. Explain to them what will
  happen if we don9t focus pretty exclusively on the scientists9 lists
 above.

 --The Duke of Oil!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:18:52 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      more late night synergetics
Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com
In-Reply-To:  <F240Mpw6yL2m9lHiu3f00006205@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Synergetics is a 'more with less' approach to getting some
basics into your thinking.

We start with two generalities:  abstract thinking and
gut-level feeling.  Wire those two to some big names in
science-math -- that'll help at the mnemonic level (mnemonic
means 'relating to memory') -- those names being Euler and
Gibbs.

Euler is for abstract thinking, where you look at shapes,
networks, schemas, blueprints.  You're visualizing.  This is
where the polyhedra come in: networks that close around in all
directions, like globes.  We see edges, corners and surfaces
everywhere we look, so those become the E,V and F variables in
Euler's Law:  V+F=E+2 (something we can prove about polyhedra,
with appropriate qualifications).

Gibbs is for gut-level feeling, where you consider the extremes
and a happy medium (water).  Stuff can get too hard/rigid/suffocating
(for example), or too uncontrolled/meaningless (gaseous).  This
is where the Phase Rule comes in, which is about how chemicals
go into solid, liquid and gas phases in response to temperature
and pressure.  So yes, the links are metaphoric, from chemistry
to alchemy (not too hard to follow).

Fuller links Euler and Gibbs with a picture:  two tetrahedra,
either corner-connected (gas), edge connected (liquid) or
face-connected (solid).  It's just a picture, but it lends
itself to "coupling" the intellectual and the emotive at
various levels -- something people are always seeking to
accomplish and think about.

So you see we're doing psychology here.  We're using Euler and
Gibbs as mnemonics, setting up some hooks. From Euler we branch
to his law (V+F=E+2) and considerations about systems of
thought as if we could see them, hold them in our mind's eye.
You might even think of yourself as a system, a "me ball", with
various degrees of freedom.

When your freedoms are highly constrained, you might feel like
a prisoner, or maybe like you're in a game (trapped in a corner
perhaps), or simply playing within a highly logical structure
-- the game of chess comes to mind.  Other times, you might
feel like your relationship to otherness (the environment) is
much more fluid, or nebulous.

Now when we do the Eulerian conceptual stuff, we're going to
put a lot more detail into this picture, starting with sphere
packing and a concentric hierarchy of polyhedra.  We'll use the
tetrahedron as a starting point and build outward, encountering
duals, viewing some animations and transformations.  The goal
is to get some crystalline imagery uploaded into your everyday
awareness -- something easy and portable.

The basic idea is any metaphorics of sufficient complexity is
mappable to most human ideation.  That sounds like a mouthful.
If you've got a rich inventory of ideas, you can think about
almost anything, by a process of analogy and translation.  Read
some other author/writer, on whatever topic.  If you've done
your homework in synergetics (wherein the ideas are mostly
geometric), chances are you'll find some hooks that'll give
you some clues -- you'll at least feel somewhat oriented.

One of the key concepts in science is equilibrium or balance,
and sometimes this "state" is dynamic, meaning you have a lot
of motion and change involved, even though the patterns are
relatively stable.  Synergetics has a shape that represents
perfect equilibrium, states that you never find it in reality,
and then proceeds to develop a model of awareness in which
humanity lives in an "after image" of perfection.

Because we can't think everything simultaneously, we're
compelled to experience lag times and Doppler effects.  Our
reality is not instantaneous-eternal, but serialized-temporal.
We experience in scenarios.  In Universe, we experience these
scenarios as partially overlapping.  This is how Universe is
defined in Synergetics:  as partially overlapping scenarios
that are non-simultaneous and non-unitarily conceptual (i.e.
you're not able to experience them all at once).

The eternal principles run through all the events and
experiences, which we call "special cases".  Every event is
unique and special in some way, but with regard to principles,
events always show off their internal consistency and
coherence.  We are able to encode/capture these principles in
semantics to some degree, and science-mathematics provides
disciplines for doing so -- but not the only disciplines.

The coherence and integrity of the generalized principles is
sort of like gravity in that these exceptionless rules anchor
experiences and keep events within the bounds of the possible.

On the one hand, entropy is a reality and we have energy
leaking away from local systems, which grow unruly and
uncontrollable over time, and perhaps degenerate/explode, or
rust away, or return their content to the environment in
whatever manner.

On the other hand, syntropy is also a reality and some centers
are programming energy into very complex systems, orders, which
showcase the eternal principles at a higher level of resonance
-- a kind of towering towards God if we want to use Biblical
metaphorics.  There's an extreme in this direction which
mortals can manage -- then stuff starts to unravel in the sense
that language, usages, bifurcate and subdivide -- we fragment
into different life forms, perhaps not always very compatible.

Synergetics hypothesizes that humanity could go a long way in
the order-building direction -- much further than we've gone so
far.  We are not denied this opportunity by any physical
circumstances or lethal shortages.  The planet is sufficient to
meet our needs as a species, provided we organize ourselves
into intelligently designed patterns.  We've come a long way
along those lines already (teleology is like voltage pressure
and comes from individuals with vision, and gut-level
instincts, as per Euler and Gibbs again).  How much further
will we go?  Or will we throw in the towel, too overwhelmed by
the challenges facing us?

Synergetics hypothesizes that part of what contributes to our
sense of overwhelm and detracts from our performance is a
distrust of nature, of principles, of design.  We aren't
confidant that sense can be made of Universe, or that our lives
might have a syntropic component that extends beyond the
relatively short segment between birth and death.  As a
masterwork in philosophy, one purpose of synergetics is to
restore some innate trust and appreciation for the integrity of
Universe.  Whether that really can be done, however, is still
an open question.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:44:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      curriculum hyperlinks (wiring synergetics into the motherboard)
Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000728001852.00948100@pop.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

More hyperlinks re Gibbs:

In addition to the phase rule, Gibbs is a primary
innovator around the mathematics of vectors. We
call the vector algebra standardly taught in
schools today the Gibbs-Heaviside system.  It
grew up somewhat in competition with Hamilton's
quaternions (later champioined by Tait), and is
perhaps to be superceded or more generalized in
the form of Clifford algebra as championed by
Hestenes.

===================

21st century geometry:  Beyond Flatland

The synergetics hierarchy of concentric polyhedra
is a "grand central station" in the curriculum, a
network node with lots of hyperlinks converging to
it.

Links:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/volumes.html

Polyhedra have been studied for ages by a great
many thinkers, including Kepler, who also studied
sphere packing, and realized the rhombic dodecahedron
fills space as the domain of close packed spheres.
One hear's of Kepler's Conjecture: is the packing
of 12 spheres around a central sphere, with a
second layer of 42, a third layer of 92 and so
on really the densest possible?  A formal proof
has been elusive.

Links:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ivm.html
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/urner.html
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/xtals101.html


===================
Linking Geometry to Object Oriented Programming

Polyhedra may be studied in tandem with vectors
and vector operations, using computer programming.
This is a good way to anchor a lot of relevant
concepts, including those around "object oriented
programming"; polyhedra being the objects.  Objects
contain data and methods:  the data tells us where
the vertices are (the corners), and the methods
give the polyhedra ways to resize, move through
space, reorient relative to other objects (scale,
translate, rotate).  If the superclass "generic
polyhedron" has these methods defined, then all
the special case subclasses of that polyhedron
will inherit these methods -- which is how object
oriented programs are designed (around a hierarchy
of classes).

When you learn to program a computer, this often
involves finding out about the various objects it
comes with, their methods.  Having learned about
object oriented programming in conjunction with
polyhedra and the concentric hierarchy, this is
familiar ground.

Links:
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/trends2000.html
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/numeracy3.html#rbf
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:55:44 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: more late night synergetics
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Kirby-This is getting close to language I can really
grab onto.  Would you rewrite this piece, say so that
an average sixth-grade could get it?
Thanks,
Dick
--- Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM> wrote:
> Synergetics is a 'more with less' approach to
> getting some
> basics into your thinking.
>
> We start with two generalities:  abstract thinking
> and
> gut-level feeling.  Wire those two to some big names
> in
> science-math -- that'll help at the mnemonic level
> (mnemonic
> means 'relating to memory') -- those names being
> Euler and
> Gibbs.
>
> Euler is for abstract thinking, where you look at
> shapes,
> networks

cut

=====
Dick FischbeckHubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\\There are no bad kids!!>Do your own thinking.     UTOPIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:08:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Mass Extinction
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Brian- Why are you so concerned with politics when
Bucky was so adamantly apolitical?  What am I missing?
( not that Bucky was always right but on this I think
it is integral to his life)
Thanks,
Dick
--- Brian Hutchings
<r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US> wrote:
> <<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings
>  27-JUL-2000 22:23
>                  r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
>  I notice, Karen, that you strove not to say,
> "global warming;"
>  thank you!
>
>  this "6th mass-extinction since life began"
> probably ignores
>  the rather awesome changes in the biota that occur,
>  at the rapid onsets (and collapses) of inter

( cut)

=====
Dick FischbeckHubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\\There are no bad kids!!>Do your own thinking.     UTOPIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:03:47 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Domes
Comments: To: Dick Fischbeck <dickfischbeck@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dick,

A "geodesic" is the shortest distance between 2 points ON A SPHERE.  A
geodesic dome is composed of TRIANGULATED geodesic lines (or "great
circles").  Any other method (such as using "lesser circles") is not
"geodesic".  The geodesic method is the most efficient--that is it uses the
least amount of materials.  I suppose a line between 2 atoms could be
considered geodesic if that line returned upon itself like the equator.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Fischbeck" <dickfischbeck@hotmail.com>
To: <joemoore@cruzio.com>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 8:27 AM
Subject: Domes


> Joe- When is a dome not a geodesic dome.  For example, isn't an eggshell a
> high frequency geodesic dome?
>
> >v<^>v<^>v<^>v<^>v<^>v<^>v<^>v<^>v<
> \|\|/|\|/|\|/|\|/|\|/|\|/|\|/|\|/|\
>
> Hubdome (tm) Copyright 2000
>
> =======================================
> "If the success or failure of this planet
> and of human beings depended on
> how I am and what I do,
> how would I be? What would I do?"
>                     -r. buckminster fuller
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> The shell of permitted ignorance has cracked. RBF
>
> [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][
>
> Do your own thinking, please. Your own mind works fine.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:11:24 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: [Tetworld] a century of prosperity for all
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Micheal,
I am glad you and Kirby have stopped arguing lately!
Thanks for the peace.
Dick
--- Michael Mitchell <syntrivity@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:
> Kirby Urner wrote:
>
> > > = Szeto
> >   = Urner
> >
> > >You should tell that to the Boss, the Snyders!
> >
> > This is stupid, putting the onus on the Snyders.
> > Bob made a good movie, and Allegra just did the
> > best she could.
> >
> > >Their shortsightedness about science could cost
> > >them their website, I think, on the longer hall.
> >                                             ^^^^
> >
cut

=====
Dick FischbeckHubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\\There are no bad kids!!>Do your own thinking.     UTOPIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:15:14 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dexter,

Thank you for putting so much time & effort into trying to find that Bucky
quote.  I hope what you found is what Robert is looking for.

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dexter Graphic" <dextergraphic@PRODIGY.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
To: <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller


> Hi Robert,
>
> I think I've found the passage you were looking for. In "Ideas and
> Integrities," pages 266 and 267, Fuller writes:
>
> "Because there was a fundamental limit of weight displacement for a
> given ship, the designers of the ship were confronted with the task
> of providing an assembly which could operate successfully under
> maximum hostility of Nature, in effect designing for the exploitation
> of hurricanes, for sea-quakes severer than land-quakes, for daily
> avalanches when mammoth seas curled over on the decks, for daily
> flood--in fact for all conditions which threatened landed structures
> less frequently."  ...
>
> "If we except tents, shacks and temporary hutments, we may state
> categorically that permanent buildings on the land were evolved in
> an entirely different logic. Buildings on the land were designed for
> permanence and therefore to withstand attacks of living enemies as
> well as attacks of weather and time. Permanent buildings developed
> essentially as fortresses and in order to be permanent even as
> storages, had to be fashioned of stone. Wooden ships could last long
> enough to make great wealth out of a few voyages. Ships had the high
> priority technology, and the homes and shops in which the components
> of the ships were fashioned could be evolved from simple fortuitous
> building techniques long since enjoyed without benefit of engineers
> or scientists in which materials not good enough for the ships would
> do for the shop buildings. Piling up of stones or wood or earth
> without thought of performance per pound, where inertia was a
> fortification virtue, resulted in the building arts being practiced
> without design reference to performance per pound ratios. All that
> men asked of their landed buildings was that they should last through
> siege and time..."
>
> I hope this works for you.
>
> Dexter
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
> > [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Joe S Moore
> > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 17:15
> > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
> > Subject: Re: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
> >
> >
> > Dear Robert,
> >
> > Try as I might, I can't locate that quote. It could be in an
> > article or some
> > audio or video tape.  But I'm sure Bucky said it or something like it.
It
> > sounds so like him.  I even looked in the 'Synergetics Dictionary', but
no
> > luck.  Sorry.
> >
> > Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
> > Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Bringhurst" <RBringhurst@compuserve.com>
> > To: "Joe Moore" <joemoore@cruzio.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 3:13 PM
> > Subject: elusive quotation from Bucky Fuller
> >
> >
> > > Dear Mr Moore,
> > >
> > > I am assured that you know more than almost anyone
> > > else about the work of Buckminster Fuller. I wonder if
> > > you can help me find something in his work.
> > >
> > > I am editing the selected writings of the Native Canadian artist
> > > Bill Reid, who died two years ago. Among his papers is the
> > > text of a lecture he gave on Native American dugout canoes.
> > > He credits Buckminster Fuller with an important idea on this
> > > theme, and I am attempting to find the source in Fuller's
> > > writings.
> > >         The passage in question, reads as follows:
> > >
> > > >> Buckminster Fuller may well have been right when he said
> > > that the beginnings of design are found in the early work of those
> > > who lived by and of the sea. For it is possible to build some kind
> > > of structure merely by piling pieces of debris on top of one another
> > > until you get something you can use, no matter how clumsy it may
> > > be, provided you build it on land. But when you decide to go to sea,
> > > you discover very soon that you have to contend with factors such
> > > as weight to volume relationships, width to length ratios, relations
> > > of strength to thickness, depth and shape to stability. And that's
> > > only the beginning. You have to consider the nature of materials, to
> > > invent the tools to effect their transformation so they can be used.
> > > You have to consider means of propulsion and navigation: how to
> > > get from here to there and back again without getting lost. <<
> > >
> > > I do not know whether some or all of this may be direct quotation
> > > from Fuller. But in looking through his books, I have not yet found
> > > a passage in which this idea is really raised. Watercraft are
mentioned
> > > very frequently, of course, but I have not yet found a passage where
> > > Fuller says more or less explicitly "that the beginnings of design are
> > > found in the early work of those who lived by and of the sea."
> > > Do you know where I might find this theme in Fuller's work, or can you
> > > suggest someone else who might know that work well enough to help me?
> > >
> > > Many thanks,
> > > Robert Bringhurst
> > >
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:37:43 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: more late night synergetics
Comments: cc: synergeo@egroups.com
In-Reply-To:  <20000728155544.29468.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:55 AM 07/28/2000 -0700, Dick Fischbeck wrote:
>Kirby-This is getting close to language I can really
>grab onto.  Would you rewrite this piece, say so that
>an average sixth-grade could get it?
>Thanks,
>Dick

I think for TV-immersed 6th graders these ideas would
work best if presented as video with computer graphics.

What we need is a databank of short videoclips,
averaging under a minute in length, and retrievable
by key word.  You string these together or call them
up in response to student questions.  Hypertext
interface.  Distribution is by CDROM or DVD.

In the USA, the Department of Education and DARPA
should be pumping bucks into some prototypes, in
consortium with the private sector (the corporations
need not always be USA-based e.g. Sony), to catalyze
a renaissance in education.  A presidential candidate
who doesn't speak in definite, clear terms about how
she or he plans to revamp education is just blowing
smoke, trying to get elected without doing the
requisite homework.

DARPA previously funded a "Computer Programming for
Everybody" initiative (CP4E) designed to get more
programming into the schools, with the Python language
spearheading the effort.[1]  That grant has long since
run out, and is small change next to what's needed
to spark imaginations around design science concepts
more generally.

Hollywood needs to get into the act, casting stars
against a backdrop of futuristic artifacts that exists
as working prototypes, not simply as phoney props or
stage magician special effects.  The game of brand
placement (embedding logos in the actual programs,
vs. separating out into separate advertising segments)
will make a lot of sense in this context, as corporations
vie with one another to prove their sponsorship of
the "sexiest future" (e.g. Fly's Eye air-liftable
utility pods, wired to cyberspace and staffed by
youngsters with heavy duty real world responsibilities,
ala ER -- real time camera access via webcam and TV
segments (this is not a new theme for me -- shows
like 'Survivor' bring us closer)).

We're in dire need of a realistic futurism, an
attainable positive tomorrow.  Because a self-indulgent
and Malthusian academia has fallen down on the job
(by and large), Federation pseudo-Science ala
Star Trek has been allowed to fill the cultural
void, holding out the prospect of a high tech future,
but using mumbo jumbo concepts instead of hard
science-math, leaving kids to fantasize helplessly
about some 24th century, while Spaceship Earth
meanwhile remains in the grip of obsolete power
structures, desparate to hang on to power (the
Napster fracas being just the tip of the iceberg
vis-a-vis that juggernaut).[2]

A lot of intellectuals overseas are well-aware of
how USA politicos are consistently and concertedly
ignoring their leadership responsibilities, which
include inspiring positive future visions, vs. simply
serving as the puppets and task masters of those
who see humans as little more than exploitable
consumers.  This has the effect or eroding the
credibility and even the comprehensibility of the
political leadership.  Why don't they make any
sense?

Education is from the inside out, but the inner world
has been left in the hands of media manipulators who
fill heads with cheap googoo-brained claptrap,
whatever it takes to create a new generation of mall
rats and fast food junkies.  The USA, such as it
still exists, is working to counter that diet, with
healthful content -- design science based positive
future imagery, backed up with real math and
science, being chief among the vitamins and
minerals we need to firm up our jello-brained
culture.

We should start a race to see which presidential
candidate we can get to say "Buckminster Fuller"
on TV first.  The Republicans have an edge, because
President Reagan awarded Bucky the Medal of Freedom.
But Gore is into the internet, and that's a relevant
segue to design science as well.  Nader is highly
critical of corporations ala 'Grunch of Giants'
and so has plenty of hooks.  There's nothing stopping
any of these campaigns from jumping on the design
science bandwagon and demonstrating some ability
to point towards a positive future for all humanity.
Any candidate who fails to lead the way to a better
tomorrow ipso facto fails the minimum test for
leadership ability, in my book.

Kirby

[1] CP4E: http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e.html
[2] http://www.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2000/07/27/napster_shutdown/index.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:25:42 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Hypertoons!
Comments: cc: synergeo@egroups.com
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000728001852.00948100@pop.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Abstract:  Below I sketch two example vidclips that
students would enjoy (could be archived on DVD), and
then describe the hypertoon concept, which is about
stringing together vidclips from a databank designed
to start/end at keyframe vertices, allowing randomized,
smooth motion traversal through a network of scenarios.

=========================================

Vidclip 1:

Important to establish a paradigm relationship between
the cube and tetrahedron, the latter forming face
diagonals in the former.  Curiously, many text books
elect to define a common edge length instead, rather
than allowing the tetrahedron to inscribe as a
stabilizer.

Once you have Tetrahedron A installed in your cube,
with 4 of 8 corners in common, you're ready for
Tetrahedron B, which criss-crosses A's edges at
90 degrees.  A and B together make a big X in
every face of the cube, at the cube's 6 face
centers.

Speaking of logo placement in context, I've just
sketched the 4D Solutions logo, which consists of
orange and black tetrahedra A and B as per the
above description, minus the cube (you can add it
back in your mind's eye). See:

   http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/

for an example.  Notice that mousing over this
device causes the colors to switch.

Vidclip 2:

Vector operations take place against the backdrop
of a coordinate system.  The coordinate system is
the stage, provides the context, while the vectors
are the actors, the players.  A coordinate system
we use a lot (and will continue using), is XYZ.

Start with the vidclip above, showing tetrahedra
A and B creating X-marks-the-spot vertices at the
6 centers of every cube face.  Have a six segments
grow from the cube's body center, through these
six face centers.  You get a 6-spoked "hub", similar
to a "jack" (game of jacks).  This is the stage for
doing XYZ coordinates.  What we're seeing in this
vidclip is that XYZ is defined by the 6 mid-edges
of the tetrahedron (either A or B, it doesn't matter).

For a picture of the XYZ coordinate system as
described above (only one tetrahedron showing),
click here:

http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quadray/xyzcube.gif

=============

Notice that the two vidclips above have a lot in
common.  Both employ a cube and define two intersecting
tetrahedra.

It would be easy to define vidclip 1 as a scenario
running between keyframes K1 and K2 (keyframe is a
term from cartooning, where keyframes are the comic
book stills of critical narrative value, and
"in-betweening" frames define the smooth motion
series which gets your from keyframe to keyframe).
Vidclip 2 might start from K2 as well, i.e. when
clip 1 is finished, you're exactly where you need
to be to start clip 2, with no break in the action
-- a completely smooth transition with no pause.

This brings me to the concept of "hypertoon", which
I defined some years back and published a web page
about: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/hypertoon.html

Hypertoons draw against a databank for vidclip/scenarios
designed to start and stop at keyframe terminals.
When you play a clip, you end up at a "switchpoint"
from which two or more vidclips branch off.  We're
talking about a "network" (as per graph theory)
with scenario edges and keyframe nodes.

Synergetics, being a tightly woven network of interconnected
geometry toons, provides an ideal resource for those
wishing to develop a hypertoon databank.  Imagine
having 240 vidclips interconnecting 55 key frames,
and letting a vidplayer zoom through the network,
randomly switching at each node, but with no visible
breaks in the action.  For example you might see:

Clip: Tetrahedron exploding into 24 A modules.
Clip: Zoom in on A module unfolding into flat net
      with angle measures shown, refolding.
Clip: A mod joined by inverse A mod, and B mod
      to create a MITE
Clip: MITEs aggregating to form rhombic dodecahedron
Clip: Sphere appearing inside rhombic dodecahedron,
      tangent at 12 faces
Clip: 12 spheres packing around a nuclear sphere with
      rhombic dodeca encasements visible (translucent)
Clip: rhombic dodeca encasements fade, leaving just
      spheres
Clip: 12-around-1 packing dissolving to cuboctahedron

Another pathway through the same databank might hit
these exact same scenarios but in a different order.

It's kind of like stringing beads, with the different
necklaces reusing clones of the same bead-clips over
and over -- a necklace being a sequence of clips.

To the viewer, it's not clear where one clip starts
and the other ends.  The viewer just sees a perpetual
unfolding of action, with a lot of seamless dissolves
and transformations.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:06:36 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Re: obscure book on bucky
Comments: To: Loretta Lorance <lorettalorance@netzero.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative";
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFF8B6.304F4160"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFF8B6.304F4160
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
        boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001B_01BFF8B6.304F4160"


------=_NextPart_001_001B_01BFF8B6.304F4160
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Loretta,

Apparently Mr Marlin was at one time supposed to have been the editor =
for the 4 volume set 'The Artifacts of R Buckminster Fuller', but =
something happened (?) and Mr Ward became the editor.  See the BFI =
newsletter of April 1985 (v2 #s7 & 8) page 7. He has written several =
articles about RBF but no book about him (according to Bibliofind).

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Loretta Lorance=20
  To: joemoore@cruzio.com ; edapple@aol.com ; =
claude.lichtenstein@hgkz.ch=20
  Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 12:10 PM
  Subject: obscure book on bucky


  Hello, all. I hope you're having a nice, comfortable summer.=20

  I'm wondering if anyone can help me solve a Bucky mystery. While =
re-reading Autobiographical Monologue, I came across the reference to a =
book about Bucky that I can't locate. The only time I can find any =
mention of it is by the author's name, William Marlin, in Robert =
Snyder's preface to Autobiographical M.

  Neither the New York Public Library nor Avery Library has it which =
makes me suspicious.

  It is not listed in any of the bibliographies from the various books =
on Fuller.

  Does anyone know this book? Was it actually published?

  Thanks,
  Loretta

------=_NextPart_001_001B_01BFF8B6.304F4160
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1"><BASE=20
href=3Dfile://C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\MICROS~1\STATIO~1\>
<STYLE>BODY {
        MARGIN-TOP: 0em; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: =
0em; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: "Verdana", "Arial"
}
P.msoNormal {
        MARGIN-TOP: 0em; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: =
0em; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: "Verdana", "Arial"
}
LI.msoNormal {
        MARGIN-TOP: 0em; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: =
0em; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: "Verdana", "Arial"
}
</STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff =
background=3Dcid:001901bff8f0$dc9d5080$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Loretta,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Apparently Mr Marlin was at one time =
supposed to=20
have been the editor for the 4 volume set 'The Artifacts of R =
Buckminster=20
Fuller', but something happened (?) and Mr Ward became the editor.&nbsp; =
See the=20
BFI newsletter of April 1985 (v2 #s7 &amp; 8) page 7. He has written =
several=20
articles about RBF but no book about him (according to =
Bibliofind).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT size=3D2>Joe S Moore: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com"><FONT=20
size=3D2>joemoore@cruzio.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT size=3D2>Buckminster =
Fuller Virtual=20
Institute: </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/"><FONT=20
size=3D2>http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/</FONT></A><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dlorettalorance@netzero.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:lorettalorance@netzero.net">Loretta Lorance</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djoemoore@cruzio.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:joemoore@cruzio.com">joemoore@cruzio.com</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dedapple@aol.com =
href=3D"mailto:edapple@aol.com">edapple@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dclaude.lichtenstein@hgkz.ch=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:claude.lichtenstein@hgkz.ch">claude.lichtenstein@hgkz.ch</=
A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 28, 2000 =
12:10=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> obscure book on =
bucky</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello, all. I hope you're having a nice, =
comfortable summer.=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm wondering if anyone can help me solve a Bucky =
mystery.=20
  While re-reading Autobiographical Monologue, I came across the =
reference to a=20
  book about Bucky that I can't locate. The only time I can find any =
mention of=20
  it is by the author's name, William Marlin, in Robert Snyder's preface =
to=20
  Autobiographical M.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Neither the New York Public Library nor Avery =
Library has it=20
  which makes me suspicious.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>It is not listed in any of the bibliographies from =
the=20
  various books on Fuller.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Does anyone know this book? Was it actually=20
  published?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Loretta</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_001_001B_01BFF8B6.304F4160--

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFF8B6.304F4160
Content-Type: image/gif;
        name="FunBus.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-ID: <001901bff8f0$dc9d5080$123cfea9@oemcomputer>
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------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFF8B6.304F4160--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:15:07 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: Precession and its ramifications
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simbalt3" <simbalt3@aol.com>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 4:21 PM
Subject: Prcession and its ramifications


> Hello everyone. I'm new to this place and I didn't see any kind of FAQ or
> anything so I will try to be good about this. I'm posting bcouse I found a
> Bucky FAQ today on the web and it go me thinking agen and I rote somthing
about
> my feeling about Synergetics in general. Its kinda long so I posted it on
my
> ISP-provided FTP space as a webpage so if you'd like to read it
> http://members.aol.com/simbalt3/prcession.html

> Thanks for paying some atention!

> -Sim

> ps: ill be checking back soon if anyone has any questions or comments
about my
> work
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:27:25 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To: deana@snip.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Deana,

Scroll down to "Newsletters" on this web page:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/New-Nind.htm
There should be info on a dome newsletter.

To signoff from the Geodesic newsletter put the command

SIGNOFF GEODESIC

in the body of your email (leave subject blank).

Send the email to the list computer
LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU

For info about domes see:
http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/Index/Dome-Dt.htm

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Deana Glickstein" <deana@snip.net>
To: <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 5:17 PM


> Hi Joe, I am on the geodesic list and thought I was getting on a list of
people interested in dome homes.  I realize you are  all serious Fuller
students interested in the mathematics, etc.  Can you tell me how to
unsubscribe I am a novice and am receiving lots of email that I do not
understand.  Do you know anything about dome homes?  Thanks for responding
Deana
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:08:58 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: more late night synergetics

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:08
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Dick, "apolitical" is an unregistered party, although
 voting for Gush or Bore should be eased,
 by putting them on the same ticket!...  Bucky's "paradigm"
 of politics apeears to be that of Arnold Toynbee,
 a propogandist of the "Nashville Agrarian" school
 at Vanderbilt (and an officer of Brit.Intel.) --
 that is Gore's paradigm, as well, from Vanderbilt,
 as showcased in _Earth in the Balance_.
    I agree with Kirby, that "Federation pseudo-science
 a la Star Trek" is an intellectual bane, like much
 of scifi -- and it has gotten an even greater Toynbee-ite
 veneer, with the addition of Patric Stewart (classic bender:
 British actor with a French alias !-)...  but
 that has always been the primary product of Hollyweird,
 ever since, so to say, _How the Jews Invented Hollywood_,
 with the launching of "The Birth of a Nation" --
 from the "Whitey House" (and,
 if you wish to claim that Sir Henry the K is Jewish,
 that's your problem, two .-)

 Http://www.larouchecampaign.com/pdfs/BW2322.Education.pdf.

 before "getting onto the bandwagon," they have to know,
 where in Hell it is; they simply do not.
 none of these candidates (for the R/D/G parties) is qualified
 to discuss a classical education ipso facto,
 by virtue that they do not know the meaning of the word,
 republic -- strange to say, the import
 of the General Welfare Clause of the Constitution has no place
 in the lengthy platforms, at this time (although
 General Electric et al have had a heavy hand
 in the construction, denuding large forests for this plank,
 of "education" as a sort of day-care and voacational tracking;
 oy, heil !-)
    there "debate" will consist over vouchers, and
 wiring (and unwiring, of course, for handhelds) the schools,
 with the curriculum taken-care of by either the NEA and
 the teacher's unions, on the "left" hand, or
 by parochial councils of wealthy parents, on the "right" hand.

 you can just see them youngins,
 bouncing around the hallways in their edu-helmets,
 or what ever.

 thus quoth:
  a renaissance in education.  A presidential candidate
  who doesn't speak in definite, clear terms about how


  We should start a race to see which presidential
  candidate we can get to say "Buckminster Fuller"
  on TV first.  The Republicans have an edge, because
  President Reagan awarded Bucky the Medal of Freedom.
  But Gore is into the internet, and that's a relevant
  segue to design science as well.  Nader is highly
  critical of corporations ala 'Grunch of Giants'
  and so has plenty of hooks.  There's nothing stopping
  any of these campaigns from jumping on the design
  science bandwagon and demonstrating some ability

  [1] CP4E: http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e.html

 --The Racist Nightmare at Yale!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:18:26 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: curriculum hyperlinks (wiring synergetics into the motherboar

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:18
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 for shame, Kirby.  Gibbs merely "seperated out"
 from quaternions as a unitary vectorization,
 using the formality of "inner and outer products" and,
 thus, getting rid of the bad imaginaries;
 mathematical Prozac?...  any search
 on la Web will show the use of quaternions,
 as in navigation to control pitch, yaw & roll,
 which was implicit to Hamilton's work, and
 to Gibbs' with more attention to the cockpit!

 thus quoth:
  call the vector algebra standardly taught in
  schools today the Gibbs-Heaviside system.  It
  grew up somewhat in competition with Hamilton's
  quaternions (later champioined by Tait), and is

 --Undead Presidents!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:27:55 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: more late night synergetics

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:27
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Euler was the greatest algebraist, but
 he attacked the dude that really laid-out the conceptual stuff,
 viz *analysis situs*, Leibniz,
 in his defamatory "Letters to a Princess"
 (Euler was the key "man of science" on the Continent,
 to create the Newton mythology --
 which was a rather strenuous affair !-)

 thus quoth:
  Because we can't think everything simultaneously, we're
  compelled to experience lag times and Doppler effects.  Our

 ah, you cannot ... you are?

 just kidding.

 --Skull and Bones!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:44:09 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Access to information, Vote-smart, Nader

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:44
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Moore is a "progressive" and a "populist,"
 not in the worst mold (of Teddy Roosevelt e.g.):
 *anyone* who says that this nation "is a democracy" is a part
 of that problem, that was promoted so assiduously by TR;
 if he knows what a republic is, he refuses to say, So!
    in other words,
 Al and George and Ralph make me want to stick my head
 into a gas oven, with or without the pilot-light --
 or to vote for Lyn!

 thus quoth:
  I fear the cement on this new oligarchy of power is quickly drying, and
  when it is finished hardening, we are finished. The democracy, the one
  that's supposed to be of, by, and for the people, will cease to exist.

 mmflint@aol.com
 http://www.theawfultruth.com
 http://www.michaelmoore.com

 --Skill and Bombs!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:50:48 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] NASA May Revive Nuclear Propulsion Research

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:50
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 so, you have a problem with this --
 you and Michio "The Sky is Glowing!" Kaku?

 thus quoth:
  Apparently NASA is once again considering using nuclear thermal rocket
  propulsion.

  http://www.space.com/news/spaceagencies/nuclear_power_000718.html

 --Reincarnation Party!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
 --"Republicans" R Them!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
 --Dick "Dubya's Brain" Cheney for Veep!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:58:54 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] FW: the url for \"Taking A Long Hard Look At Ralph Nader

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:58
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 wow;
 the quote from your source,
 "Gore proudly proclaimed that he wrote the first press-release
 for the DLC," says it all.  now,
 did you know,
 Dick Morris could not weasel his way into the Administration,
 til he found Al Gore?  (that is in Stephanapoulos' book, as well
 as that he went along with it.)

 thus quoth:
  http://www.blackelectorate.com/archives/071700.asp

  Black Electorate

  July 17, 2000

  A Deeper Look

  Taking A Long Hard Look At Ralph Nader

  By Cedric Muhammad <blackelectorate@cs.com>

 --"Republicans" R Them!
 http://www.tarapley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:16:30 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: curriculum hyperlinks (wiring synergetics into the motherboar
In-Reply-To:  <200007290218.e6T2IQ228973@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:18 PM 07/28/2000 -0700, Brian Hutchings wrote:
><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:18
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> for shame, Kirby.  Gibbs merely "seperated out"
> from quaternions as a unitary vectorization,
> using the formality of "inner and outer products" and,
> thus, getting rid of the bad imaginaries;

I don't disagree, but this doesn't negate my statement
re "in competition with".

Here's the classic reference, if you haven't read it,
spells out a lot of the connections in detail:

Michael J. Crow, A History of Vector Analysis
(New York:  Dover, 1967)

> mathematical Prozac?...  any search
> on la Web will show the use of quaternions,
> as in navigation to control pitch, yaw & roll,
> which was implicit to Hamilton's work, and
> to Gibbs' with more attention to the cockpit!

I've written rotation methods using quaternions myself,
in both java and python.  The 'Tomb Raiders' game engine
is quaternion based.  So?  I didn't say anything bad
about them?

Links:
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/oopalgebra.html
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/numeracy1.html

Quothing from the latter:

   Whereas vectors do make an appearance in contemporary
   high school math classes, quaternions have generally
   been considered exclusively college material -- and
   for math and physics majors at that.

   However, without going into a lot of detail, we might
   usefully touch on them at this juncture, given that
   quaternions:

    * use already-defined vector operations
    * have application in computer games as rotators
    * may be compared with matrix methods for accomplishing
      the rotation function
    * bridge to both complex numbers, and matrices
    * provide an example of an algebra with a non-commutative
      binary operator
    * provide another opportunity to reinforce the
      object-oriented approach
    * provide another opportunity for play and exploration
      in Python's interactive environment
    * foster greater appreciation for the history and
      literature of mathematics may crop up again later
      in a student's career

Got a problem with that??

> thus quoth:
>  call the vector algebra standardly taught in
>  schools today the Gibbs-Heaviside system.  It
>  grew up somewhat in competition with Hamilton's
>  quaternions (later champioined by Tait), and is
>
> --Undead Presidents!
> http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:20:52 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: more late night synergetics
In-Reply-To:  <200007290227.e6T2Rt128988@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:27 PM 07/28/2000 -0700, Brian Hutchings wrote:
><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:27
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> Euler was the greatest algebraist, but
> he attacked the dude that really laid-out the conceptual stuff,
> viz *analysis situs*, Leibniz,

I'm not about to play "goodies and baddies" ala LLR's
way of arranging the chess pieces.  He's welcome to
his polarities, which aren't mine.  Long live Venice.
Long live Leibniz (as a monad or whathaveyou).

Link:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz-mind/

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:51:22 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Bucky at Chamisa Mesa High
Comments: cc: synergeo@egroups.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Here's a private high school with Bucky embedded in the
curriculum:

http://www.chamisamesa.net/index.html

See:

Technical Studies -> Science -> Buckminster Fuller

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 01:26:04 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      More re the Mind/Brain thread...
Comments: To: synergeo@egroups.com
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000728225122.0084b6d0@pop.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

   mind   principles   angles      atemporal  new intuitions
   ----------------------------------------------------------
   brain  specialcases frequencies termporal  reflexes/habits


    Fig 1.  Mind - Brain relationship in Fuller's Philosophy

=================================================

In synergetics, "brain" and "mind" -- two signifiers -- get
sent on different trajectories.  The brain has a client/server
relationship with mind, with the latter being the domain of
the generalized principles, the former being the "TV studio"
sensorium, the after image of special cases, both experienced
in real-time, and recalled-connected.

Brain creates a connection to mind via intuition, and in the
hypertoons of synergetic geometry, this is geometrically
modeled by the icosahedron jitterbugging into a cuboctahedron,
which, on a sphere, means 12 points come into contact with
neighboring spheres, closing connections (cosmic circuitry).
Again, this is only a cartoon, a vidclip or TV segment,
perhaps of only twilight zone relevance.

Vidclip:  closest packing of skulls (the 12 spheres around
a nuclear sphere morph into skulls, then back into spheres).

The icosahedron relates to electronic circuitry in a holding
pattern.  We download new intuitions from the collective
supraconscious (cuboctahedron), or space beyond our concious
circuitings, and then go off-line to sort/recombine our new
goodies (icosahedron).  Then we reconnect and upload/broadcast
new insights, and maybe someone out there is ready to receive.

The internet is making these starkly geometric cartoons
seem more real.  We have assets like gnutella, which goes
out and finds the IP addresses of other machines currently
running the same program.  Our computer joins the network
and perhaps uploads and downloads bit-streams.  This might
be a "mind phase" (being on-line), but at some point we
go back into "brain phase" and work more with a static
set of concepts (a system).

Vidclip:  tiger jumps back and forth through flaming hoop.
On each side of the hoop is a stand (for the tiger), with
an icosahedron drawn on it (symbol).  Above the flaming
hoop is the cuboctahedron a.k.a. vector equilibium.

Mind is sensitive to the principles which transcend any
given tuning-in, is the gravitational "out" or novent
vis-a-vis our tuned-in systems or programs.  Channel
surfing or web browsing is an activity which sometimes
heightens intuition, especially if we have a sense of
looking for something, needing answers.  In that case,
we're alert to analogies, similarities (simulcra) and
are "reading" with an eye for relevance.

What gives humans a chance to succeed in this complicated
Universe of ours is self-reprogrammability, i.e. the ability
to download/upgrade reflexes.  Reflexes are the responses
we generate without thinking about it (even thoughts can be
reflexive-automatic, most often are).  Reflexes are not bad
-- they're essential to survival.  Great art involves
automaticity and sponteneity is not the antithesis of
the automatic (they often go together, interleave).

When reflexes become disadvantageous is when they get in
the way of new thought and behavior patterns we need to
adapt and take advantage of new opportunities.  It's a
tradeoff between being competent at what we've already
learned and refined, and being willing to experience the
frustration and embarrassment of being new and inexperienced
at something in our own judgement (mortification is what
the mystics call it -- and consider essential to psycho-
logical development).[1]

Sometimes what prevents evolution to the next step is
that discomfort that comes with feeling we don't know
enough, aren't smart enough.  As people in professional
positions, experts in various walks of life, we typically
feel threatened when feelings of incompetence and inadequacy
surface, especially in domains we've staked out for our
egos to shine in (we want to be stars in some peer group).
That's why we have the stereotype of an older generation
always clinging to obsolete systems -- a bunch of foolish
diehards, is what the younger set thinks (but their turn
will come).

Best to accept humility and feelings of inadequacy as a
permanent part of life, as a sign of vitality and of a
willingness to incorporate new patterns, to relinquish
old ones.  It's not that we necessarily feel incompetent
vis-a-vis the same challenges.  It's just that there's
always some next challenge, no matter how many we've
successfully met.  In the game of life, there's always
that "next level".

The brain/mind client/server relationship is one way
to think about (model) the human condition, and to make
room in our thinking for intuitive phases, when we're
leaving ourselves open to subtle leadings, cues,
proddings -- the promptings of the mind.

Kirby

[1]  e.g. see the chapter on this subject in Aldous
Huxley's 'Perennial Philosophy' for more insights.
http://www.top-e-shop.com/books/237/0060901918.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 08:08:16 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Dick Fischbeck <dick_fischbeck@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Authorship
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I read two replies to Kirby's -Late Night Synergetics-
and one says it it from Brian and the other says it is
from Kirby.  Yet both end in almost identical
paragraphs saying to the effect "We should have a
contest to see which candidate says 'Bucky Fuller'
first."  What's up with  this?

Dick

=====
Dick FischbeckHubdome(copyright2000)/\\////\\\\/////\\\\////\\\\\\\///\\\\\There are no bad kids!!>Do your own thinking.     UTOPIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 09:44:57 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Joe S Moore <joemoore@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject:      NEW DOME CO
Comments: To: dlxx00@mail.com
Comments: cc: _DomeHomeList <DomeHome-H@h19.hoflin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Don,

Do you have a web page?

Joe S Moore: joemoore@cruzio.com
Buckminster Fuller Virtual Institute: http://www.cruzio.com/~joemoore/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:22:34 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Authorship
In-Reply-To:  <20000729150816.2757.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:08 AM 07/29/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I read two replies to Kirby's -Late Night Synergetics-
>and one says it it from Brian and the other says it is
>from Kirby.  Yet both end in almost identical
>paragraphs saying to the effect "We should have a
>contest to see which candidate says 'Bucky Fuller'
>first."  What's up with  this?
>
>Dick

That contest idea was from me, in a post of
Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:37:43 -0700, and was in the
context of a reply to yours, replying to mine,
about how to reach out to 6th graders with this
synergetics stuff ("use TV" was the gist of my
response).

Brian Hutchings replied to my reply to your reply,
on Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:08:58 -0700 quoting the
paragraph in question.  His indication it was a
quote is the "thus quoth:" at the top.  He likes
archaic English I guess (I have a hard time reading
his stilted prose, which I consider self-indulgent
-- LaRouche, a thinker with a lot to say -- whether
or not one agrees -- deserves more articulate
commentators).
Thus "quoth" Mr. Hutchings earlier in that post:

>  I agree with Kirby, that "Federation pseudo-science
>  a la Star Trek" is an intellectual bane, like much
>  of scifi -

Note that I have no problem with Star Trek, Voyager,
Deep Space 9, or the movie versions thereof, or with
Patrick Stewart -- was merely making the point that mass
culture positive near futurism hardly exists on TV,
that kids have been abandoned to fantasize around
Federation Science, which is very unreal and therefore
disempowering to those trying to brainstorm realistically.

Bucky is much better for that, and the Fuller School
should inform more TV programming (unless we think kids
aren't good for much except consuming mass quantities
of stuff, remaining mindless otherwise).

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:44:23 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Greens and the environment

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   29-JUL-2000 14:44
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 these polls nearly always circumlocute the actual questions,
 because simply listing them with the responses would, perhaps,
 slach a lot of hyperbole from the newspaper --
 not to save a tree, of course, from such fate!
    are most of them found "verbatim" on the web, or not?

 of course, I guess, the most assiduous form
 of election-rigging is in the "exit polls," and
 this is also used by our media concerns in targetted nations,
 Fujimori's Peru e.g. (see today's coverage/picture
 in the LATimes for the flavor of pitched hysteria, all
 in favor of such Wall Street "technocrats" as Toledo and Fox,
 along with the unreformed "National Endowment for Democracy" quango,
 also known as Ollie North's "Project D," as instituted
 by Brzezinski under Carter).
    isn't it curious, how these outlets can, in one breath,
 decry the failed experiment of e-deregulation
 in Califonrnia, then straight-facedly exhale the ideals
 of neoliberalization --"the end of history"-- as absolute requirements,
 or the water in which the Darwinian Pisces must swim,
 for Fox to privatize Pemex, as he has promised to do?

 thus quoth:
  Some 80% of Americans consider themselves environmentalists. The
 difference
  is in the details.

 -- is in the questions!

 --Undead President!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:05:04 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Ref: Hypertoons
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0059_01BFF97F.237E3620"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BFF97F.237E3620
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kirby I like making stuff using pov ray, let me know if I can be of any =
assistants.=20

Thanks,

Mark Somers

------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BFF97F.237E3620
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kirby I like making stuff using pov =
ray, let me=20
know if I can be of any assistants. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark Somers</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BFF97F.237E3620--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:16:00 -0600
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         marksomers <marksomers@GOLD-ARTS.COM>
Subject:      Wells Fargo revisited.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01BFF980.AA847200"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BFF980.AA847200
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kirby I need to take issue with your position concerning Wells Fargos =
interest in loaning money so people can build geodesic dome homes. First =
by building domes it raises people awarness that domes are even an =
alternative structure. Plus in building a dome people will use less =
resources.=20

I like to look at the positive aspects of any such move towards smarter =
use of resources etc.=20

Mark

------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BFF980.AA847200
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kirby I need to take issue with your =
position=20
concerning Wells Fargos interest in loaning money so people can build =
geodesic=20
dome homes. First by building domes it raises people awarness that domes =
are=20
even an alternative structure. Plus in building a dome people will use =
less=20
resources. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I like to look at the positive aspects =
of any such=20
move towards smarter use of resources etc. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BFF980.AA847200--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:09:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ref: Hypertoons
In-Reply-To:  <005c01bff9b1$71d56000$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:05 PM 07/29/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Kirby I like making
stuff using pov ray, let me know if I can be of any assistants.

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Thanks,

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Mark Somers

</smaller></fontfamily>

</excerpt><<<<<<<<


I'm already using your choo choo train.  Excellent.


Hypertoon players will need to "choose ahead" and

buffer, so the viewer has not sense of a delay at

the switch points.  Many studios have the capability

to generate scenarios with a consistent-enough look

and feel to make the hypertoon database feel

seamless (gotta get all those key frames to share

a consistent style, in many implementations).


Certainly Povray is a way to generate the clips,

and I really admire your work.  It's the players

we don't have yet, because so far the media gurus

aren't hip to my idea.


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:18:22 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Wells Fargo revisited.
In-Reply-To:  <006501bff9b2$f70d4480$3b93a6d8@intch.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:16 PM 07/29/2000 -0600, marksomers wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Kirby I need to take
issue with your position concerning Wells Fargos interest in loaning
money so people can build geodesic dome homes. First by building domes it
raises people awarness that domes are even an alternative structure. Plus
in building a dome people will use less resources.

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I like to look at the positive
aspects of any such move towards smarter use of resources etc.

</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Mark

</smaller></fontfamily>

</excerpt><<<<<<<<


Just saying this wasn't Fuller's grand vision for what

humanity might accomplish with design science.  Not

saying I have anything against this way of doing domes

(it's about the only way people are doing it these

days, has been for a couple of decades).


I just don't want us to lose sight of the vision. I'm

personally not about to squander my time lobbying for

more ways to shoe-horn domes into the suburban scene

according to whatever zoning and financing games. Others

might want to play on that front, but not me.


Closer to my vision is what I put on the web in '96

after Jay Baldwin's inspiring 'Bucky Works' came out:


http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bworks.html


Then there's the Project Earthala scenario, which I've

been pushing within the American Friends Service

Committee (but then most Quakers are clueless about

Bucky -- to a point where I'm having a hard time

feeling part of their community, given the "emergence

by emergency" urgency of it all):


http://members.xoom.com/Urner/afsc/earthala.html


Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the

matter.


Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:29:40 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Kirby Urner <pdx4d@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Fuller's philosophy...
Comments: cc: synergeo@egroups.com
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.3.32.20000729211822.0089ec20@pop.teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Those of you interested in reading more Fuller philo, as
processed through the Urner mill, might want to check my little
known philosophers' network site:

         http://inetarena.com/~pdx4d/philonet/
Mirror:  http://members.xoom.com/Urner/

Remember, as of 2000, Fuller is still not recognized as worthy
of study, as a philosopher or as anything, in most universities
(check required reading lists of the time, if you don't believe
me).

As one editor of an online philo encyclopedia wrote to me, a
couple years back:

   Dear Mr. Urner

   Thanks for your note of interest in including an article
   on Buckminster Fuller. I have consulted with our associate
   editors and they have advised not including it. The
   principal reason is that the [XXXXX] focuses narrowly on
   topics and people that are discussed in academic philosophy.
   Although Fuller's contributions to civilization are indeed
   substantial, his writings do not figure in academic
   philosophy reference works.

   I found your essay very interesting and well written and
   believe that there is some appropriate internet forum for
   it. I encourage you to shop your piece around.

Kind of a chicken-and-egg thing:  we don't study Fuller because
he's not included in academic references, and we don't include
him in academic references because he's not studied.

The "very interesting" essay mentioned above is on the web
at my site BTW:

http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bio.html

still one of the best Bucky bios IMO, short and to the point,
if I do say so myself.

Kirby
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:26:59 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   30-JUL-2000 14:26
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 >what "antisemitic remarks" ??...
 >I don't hate Arabs, either -- even Mormons are tolerated!
 >        to what do you unsubscribe (I cannot tell) ??
 >
 >--Undead President!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

 thus quoth:
  MESSAGE   from =deana@snip.net                    30-JUL-20 14:19
  YOUR ANTI-SEMITIC REMARKS ARE NOT APPRECIATED.  EVEN SAID IN SARCASM,
 STILL
 NOT APPRECIATED.  WOULD SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:24:54 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r007883@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>

MESSAGE from =deana@snip.net 30-JUL-2000 14:19
 YOUR ANTI-SEMITIC REMARKS ARE NOT APPRECIATED.  EVEN SAID IN SARCASM, STILL NOT APPRECIATED.  WOULD SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE.
- - - - -

<<REPLY from  >> Brian Hutchings                      30-JUL-2000 14:24
                 r007883@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 what "antisemitic remarks" ??...
 I don't hate Arabs, either -- even Mormons are tolerated!
         to what do you unsubscribe (I cannot tell) ??

 --Undead President!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:53:18 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Introduction and Thoughts on the Greens

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   30-JUL-2000 14:53
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I'm afraid it is hearsay on my part,
 to say that our founding parental units specifically declined
 to institute a parliamentary system, and
 "instant run-off" and other proportional representation systems are that,
 vai the back door, as it were; that is what I've been told,
 in my wing of the Dem party (the anti-Gore part of it,
 still running, when Bradley caved-in for the Michigan Primary).
    the ground is that parliament can be booted-out
 at a moment's notice, asked to call for a vote of confidence
 in pro forma, as the result of any crisis, or
 scandalous series of them.  e.g.Australia'85, England'79, and
 you can name others of the recent decade, out of the Commonwealth.

 as a meember of the County Dem Central Cmte., I must say
 in the matter of the two parties & which has the largest veneer
 of good over its plutocratic evil,
 the choice requires the services of a medical technologist
 (a hig-powered microscope .-)
    although the Dem party has effectively been running Nazi plebiscites
 for caucuses, in which tens of thousands of primary voters have
 been dysenfrachized, esp.in Michigan and Arkansas -- all the while
 as the media has been running a drumbeat of "conventions are passe" --
 Nader has made a useful demand, that
 anyone with federal matching funds be allowed
 to participate in the FEC-coordinated debates:
 that would throw the Dem ticket wide-open, even after the "coronation"
 at the convention, here in LA, and
 give Bush an actual run for "his" money (effectively,
 any FDR-style Democrat would slaughter him .-)

 thus quoth:
  On the issue of electoral politics I guess that my argument is somewhat
  absolutist in that I do not think we should compromise our voting choices
 to

 --Undead President!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:29:18 -0400
Reply-To:     deana@snip.net
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Deana Glickstein <deana@SNIP.NET>
Subject:      Re: more late night synergetics----WHAT PURPOSE DOES ANY OF THIS
              SERVE?????
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
Date:         Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:08:58 -0700

><<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   28-JUL-2000 19:08  READ THIS MESSAGE---WHY IS IT BEING REPORTED WHAT POINT ARER YOU TRYING TO MAKE???????
>                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us
>
> Dick, "apolitical" is an unregistered party, although
> voting for Gush or Bore should be eased,
> by putting them on the same ticket!...  Bucky's "paradigm"
> of politics apeears to be that of Arnold Toynbee,
> a propogandist of the "Nashville Agrarian" school
> at Vanderbilt (and an officer of Brit.Intel.) --
> that is Gore's paradigm, as well, from Vanderbilt,
> as showcased in _Earth in the Balance_.
>    I agree with Kirby, that "Federation pseudo-science
> a la Star Trek" is an intellectual bane, like much
> of scifi -- and it has gotten an even greater Toynbee-ite
> veneer, with the addition of Patric Stewart (classic bender:
> British actor with a French alias !-)...  but
> that has always been the primary product of Hollyweird,
> ever since, so to say, _How the Jews Invented Hollywood_,
> with the launching of "The Birth of a Nation" --
> from the "Whitey House" (and,
> if you wish to claim that Sir Henry the K is Jewish,
> that's your problem, two .-)
>
> Http://www.larouchecampaign.com/pdfs/BW2322.Education.pdf.
>
> before "getting onto the bandwagon," they have to know,
> where in Hell it is; they simply do not.
> none of these candidates (for the R/D/G parties) is qualified
> to discuss a classical education ipso facto,
> by virtue that they do not know the meaning of the word,
> republic -- strange to say, the import
> of the General Welfare Clause of the Constitution has no place
> in the lengthy platforms, at this time (although
> General Electric et al have had a heavy hand
> in the construction, denuding large forests for this plank,
> of "education" as a sort of day-care and voacational tracking;
> oy, heil !-)
>    there "debate" will consist over vouchers, and
> wiring (and unwiring, of course, for handhelds) the schools,
> with the curriculum taken-care of by either the NEA and
> the teacher's unions, on the "left" hand, or
> by parochial councils of wealthy parents, on the "right" hand.
>
> you can just see them youngins,
> bouncing around the hallways in their edu-helmets,
> or what ever.
>
> thus quoth:
>  a renaissance in education.  A presidential candidate
>  who doesn't speak in definite, clear terms about how
>
>
>  We should start a race to see which presidential
>  candidate we can get to say "Buckminster Fuller"
>  on TV first.  The Republicans have an edge, because
>  President Reagan awarded Bucky the Medal of Freedom.
>  But Gore is into the internet, and that's a relevant
>  segue to design science as well.  Nader is highly
>  critical of corporations ala 'Grunch of Giants'
>  and so has plenty of hooks.  There's nothing stopping
>  any of these campaigns from jumping on the design
>  science bandwagon and demonstrating some ability
>
>  [1] CP4E: http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e.html
>
> --The Racist Nightmare at Yale!
> http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jul 2000 05:18:38 +0000
Reply-To:     SpaceshipEarth@mail.com
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         SpaceshipEarth@MAIL.COM
Subject:      pneumatic related applications for ultrasound
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ecological washing machine using air and ultrasound.
http://www.artboxkiel.de/Future.htm

"Volcano" bubble cavitation "washing machine," uses an ultrasonic
field to facilitate the bubble cavitation process to increase
laundry efficiency:
http://www.members.bitex.com/eeg/

Honda Electronics Ultrasonic World, includes many pneumatic
related applications for ultrasound:
http://www.tsc.co.jp/~honda-el/index_e.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:38:20 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: pneumatic related applications for ultrasound

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   31-JUL-2000 18:38
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

  "Volcano" bubble cavitation "washing machine," uses an ultrasonic
  field to facilitate the bubble cavitation process to increase
  laundry efficiency:
  http://www.members.bitex.com/eeg/

  Honda Electronics Ultrasonic World, includes many pneumatic
  related applications for ultrasound:
  http://www.tsc.co.jp/~honda-el/index_e.html

 Message 137...REPLY, PASS, DELETE, or ? for options:  (pass) r

 Enter the text of your message.
 When you're finished, press the <RETURN> key twice.
 >
 >I don't see how cavitation is achieved, without water, and
 >there is no mention of it on the page!
 >
 >--Undead President!
 >http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
 >.

 EDIT MESSAGE?  (no)
 Sending your message via the system mailer to:
    SpaceshipEarth@mail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:49:19 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Integrity, Least of Evils

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   31-JUL-2000 18:49
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I find some of this litmus-test baffling, although
 PCAST etc. could be used as a basis for argument (that is,
 its probable stacking with Gore appointees makes it questionable,
 if not ungreen .-)
    the phrase, "and to not killing with outward weapons (fossil fuels),"
 is rather bizarre, but may be a Q-ism to learn; either that,
 or you'll have to get Someone to fossilize the fuels, so that
 they can be used like a club!

 thus quoth:
  All this on integrity. Any person's environmental views, for example,
 have
  only as much integrity as their willingness to listen to and support the
  work of the Nobel Prize winners Call for Action, the national labs, and
 the
  President's Committee of Advisers on Science and Technology.

 --Undead President!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm

 does have a nice, republican sound to it, though.
 if you know what I mean.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:56:50 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: [Q-P] Debates petition/ R2K URLS

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   31-JUL-2000 18:56
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 I read how someone in Nader's campaign spun it,
 after Nader'd called for all of the candidates
 with federal matching-funds to be in the dbates,
 so as to drop that criterium; so,
 I cannot sign it (not just because
 I'm a Democrat, of course).

 thus quoth:
  fill out the online petition to get Ralph Nader in to the debates.

      http://green.votenader.org/cgi-bin/petition-sigs.cgi

 as for Star Wars, the Gush plank is a *causus beli*, and
 not the original proposal of Raygun!

 --Undead President!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:51:36 -0700
Reply-To:     List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:       List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works
              <GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:         Brian Hutchings <r001806@PEN2.CI.SANTA-MONICA.CA.US>
Subject:      bum equipment?

<<MESSAGE from>> Brian Q. Hutchings                   31-JUL-2000 19:51
                 r001806@pen2.ci.santa-monica.ca.us

 Dear Editor;
      "College Prep Math" (or new, new, new) is laughable, although
   many elements that are used are not; isn't it just a euphamism
   for tracking?  You did mention "constructivist" curricula, and
   this is the heart of the "table-top science" of sythetic geometry,
   which I had in the 9th grade at [a] Jr. High.  Unfortunately,
   Mr. [X] did not have the time or tools to include the essential,
   "right-brain" part of proving the theorems of [a] geometry:
   that table-top to be outfitted with paper, compasses and straight-edge
   (the latter is optional, technically [in euclidean geometry] .-)
      As with the Brothers of the Common Life in France,
   which produced the republican Louis XI, th sythetic method is do-able
   by all, from any place in society.  But only if
   it is not reduced to a rote memorization of "facts about shapes" and
   algebraic manipulation (the latter of which is implicit
   in "knowing your ["decimals"]," anyway) -- as promoted
   by that [a schooldistrict] "reform" group, as presented in their pamphlets;
   that was awful!

   --Brian Quincy Hutchings

 --Bum Equipment!
 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm