From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jun 15 11:59:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.57]) by linux00.LinuxForce.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i5FFxba6012512 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:59:37 -0400 Message-Id: <200406151559.i5FFxba6012512@linux00.LinuxForce.net> Received: (qmail 1848 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 15:59:36 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 15:59:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:59:36 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" Subject: File: "GEODESIC LOG0312" To: Chris Fearnley X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Content-Length: 268809 Lines: 6898 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:00:02 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Patrick Salsbury Subject: *MONTHLY POSTING* - GEODESIC 'how-to' info If you are receiving this message, you are currently subscribed to the list. There is no need to send another 'subscribe' message. If you haven't seen any posts in a while, perhaps it's time for you to post and liven things up... :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the monthly "How To" file about the GEODESIC list. It has info on content and purpose of the list, as well as subscription info, posting instructions, etc. It should prove useful to new subscribers, as well as those who are unfamiliar with LISTSERV operations. This message is being posted on Mon Dec 1 00:00:01 PST 2003. If you are tired of receiving this message once per month, and are reading bit.listserv.geodesic through USENET news, then you can enter this subject into your KILL/SCORE file. If you're reading through email, you can set up a filter to delete the message. Both of these tricks are WELL worth learning how to do, if you don't know already. And isn't it about time to learn something new? Isn't it always? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEODESIC is a forum for the discussion of the ideas and creations relating to the work of R. Buckminster (Bucky) Fuller. Topics range from geodesic math to world hunger; floating cities to autonoumous housing, and little bit of everything in between. Other lists that focuses more specifically on some of these topics can be found on the Reality Sculptors Website: http://reality.sculptors.com/lists.html On topic discussion and questions are welcome. SPAM and unsolicited promotions are not. (Simple, eh?) ----------------------- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SUB GEODESIC A web page to signon is available here: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/user/sub.html When you want to post, send mail to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ******NOT***** to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is for subscriptions, administrivia, archive requests, etc. GEODESIC@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU is the actual discussion group. Anything sent to GEODESIC will go to all members. (And you don't want to look like a jerk having everyone see your "SUB GEODESIC John Q. Public" command! ;^) ) This list is also linked to USENET in the group bit.listserv.geodesic If you want to receive copies of everything you send to the list, use the command SET GEODESIC REPRO. If you DON'T want copies, use SET GEODESIC NOREPRO. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TO SIGN OFF THE LIST: Simply send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU and in the body of your letter put the line: SIGNOFF GEODESIC You should receive a confirmation note in the mail when you have been successfully removed. A web page to signoff is available here: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/user/signoff.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LIST ARCHIVES: Listserv itself is keeping archives of the list, dating back to June, 1992. Send a note to listserv@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with this message in the BODY of the note: INDEX GEODESIC You can get help on other Listserv commands by putting the line HELP into the body of the note. (Can be in the same message.) Web-searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (You may want to save this file to forward on to people who are interested, as it tells what the list is about, and how to subscribe and unsubscribe.) Pat _____________________________Think For Yourself______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury http://www.sculptors.com/~salsbury/ ----------------------- Don't break the Law...fix it. ;^) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:56:59 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Zig-Zag Tensegrity Torus Datasheet Comments: To: bd427@bfn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l08torus1spec.html Hi Doug, I've got my struts all ready to go. I've never used a jig to assemble a tensegrity, and for these linear sorts of tensegrity I think it's even less necessary. I've compared assembling a tensegrity to knitting although I've never knitted myself, just watched others. My plan is to assemble one stage at a time. I'll start by tying a hexagonal ring of "tS" and "TS" tendons uniting six struts, three struts going one way and three struts going the other way. Then at one of the opposite ends I'll tie another ring which will introduce another three struts. Then I'll have the framework for one tensegrity prism which I'll first tie the "guy" tendons for and then the "tT" tendons. Then I can just continue at either end of that prism, tieing up new prisms stage by stage until I wrap around the whole torus. The asymmetry of the prisms will mean I have to take a little care in making sure I choose the right lengths for each "guy" and "tT" tendon, maybe marking the struts somehow with point labels so I don't get them confused, but other than that I think it's pretty straight forward though I always find assembling a tensegrity a pretty challenging intellectual exercise. This strategy is based on my experience assembling the arch which has the same topology for most of the stages (see http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l8arch2.html). I'm going to use braided nylon fishing line and 3/8" dowels (cut to 230mm lengths) with picture-framing screw eyes in either end. If I run into a tight tendon, I'll tie it using a temporary wire first and then tie in the nylon tendon. I try to keep things easy though by tying in the tight tendons first when they will be slacker and tying in the looser tendons last (see the table of relative member forces for who's tight and who's loose). I've computed "Construction Lengths" and added them to the datasheet. These are member lengths I compute taking into account the actual scale of the structure, the hub dimensions and the tightness of each tendon. The accommodation of the hub dimensions is somewhat ad hoc, but nylon is forgiving enough it does alright. Bob On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:21:20 -0500 (EST) Doug Milliken writes: > > Bob & Dick, > > Great work!! (I caught the post on bit.listserv.geodesic ) > > Now, tell us how to jig the struts, so we can try to make one of > these. I remember making simple tensigrities easy to assemble by, > for example, attaching the struts to the sides of a cube, then > stringing > them up, and finally removing the cube from the middle. > > Any bright suggestions? Maybe use a real Christmas wreath and poke > the struts through the branches, removing the pine branches at > the end... > > -- Doug Milliken bd427@bfn.org (not posting due to SWEN problems) > > > On 28 Nov 2003, Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > > Subject: Zig-Zag Tensegrity Torus Datasheet > > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > Ref: > > > > > http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l10torus1spec.ht ml > > > > Just in time for the holiday season! The tensegrity torus! > Scroll > > down > > to the bottom for pictures. > > Wouldn't it make a great holiday wreath? I also designed a > smaller > > eight-stage (24 struts) > > version which the clearances are kind of tighter on. This version > has > > ten stages (30 struts). > > > > Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:12:12 -0500 Reply-To: Doug Milliken Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Comments: To: bobwb@juno.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Bob, I think I've managed to subscribe to the listserv...will see if this appears back in my inbox... I recommend the jig method for anyone interested in quick-n-dirty model building. It saves a lot of time measuring out lengths of string. We used this at a "Tensigrity Party" in my dorm room, not long after I went to a Bucky lecture in Boston. This was back in the mid-1970s, might be some holes in my memory... The struts were square rods (made in campus wood shop) with thin slots in the ends. Button thread was tied to one end of a strut, then the thread was run from one strut to the next, tie-ing off when required. With the struts held by the jig it was easy to tense everything up (and adjust for symmetry) before removing the cardboard solid inside. I think we made models that were the "doubles" of a cube and trapezoid, but I don't remember what some of the other people at the party made. Anyway, thanks for your reply. I might take a crack at one of your beautiful structures one of these days! -- Doug Milliken On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Ref: > http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l08torus1spec.html > > Hi Doug, > > I've got my struts all ready to go. I've never used a jig to assemble a > tensegrity, and for these linear sorts of tensegrity I think it's even > less necessary. I've compared assembling a tensegrity to knitting > although I've never knitted myself, just watched others. My > plan is to assemble one stage at a time. I'll start by tying a > hexagonal ring of "tS" and "TS" tendons uniting six struts, three struts > going one way and three struts going the other way. Then at one of the > opposite ends I'll tie another ring which will introduce another three > struts. Then I'll have the framework for one tensegrity prism which > I'll first tie the "guy" tendons for and then the "tT" tendons. Then I > can just continue at either end of that prism, tieing up new prisms > stage by stage until I wrap around the whole torus. The asymmetry of > the prisms will mean I have to take a little care in making sure I > choose the right lengths for each "guy" and "tT" tendon, maybe marking > the struts somehow with point labels so I don't get them confused, but > other than that I think it's pretty straight forward though I always > find assembling a tensegrity a pretty challenging intellectual exercise. > This strategy is based on my experience assembling the arch which > has the same topology for most of the stages (see > http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l8arch2.html). > > I'm going to use braided nylon fishing line and 3/8" dowels (cut to > 230mm lengths) with > picture-framing screw eyes in either end. If I run into a tight tendon, > I'll tie it using a temporary wire first and then tie in the nylon > tendon. I try to keep things easy though by tying in the tight tendons > first when they will be slacker and tying in the looser tendons last > (see the table of relative member forces for who's tight and who's loose). > > I've computed "Construction Lengths" and added them to the datasheet. > These are member lengths I compute taking into account the actual scale > of the structure, the hub dimensions and the tightness of each tendon. > The accommodation of the hub dimensions is somewhat ad hoc, but nylon is > forgiving enough it does alright. > > Bob > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:21:20 -0500 (EST) Doug Milliken > writes: > >> Bob & Dick, >> >> Great work!! (I caught the post on bit.listserv.geodesic ) >> >> Now, tell us how to jig the struts, so we can try to make one of >> these. I remember making simple tensigrities easy to assemble by, >> for example, attaching the struts to the sides of a cube, then >> stringing >> them up, and finally removing the cube from the middle. >> >> Any bright suggestions? Maybe use a real Christmas wreath and poke >> the struts through the branches, removing the pine branches at >> the end... >> >> -- Doug Milliken bd427@bfn.org (not posting due to SWEN problems) >> >> >> On 28 Nov 2003, Dick Fischbeck wrote: >> >> > Subject: Zig-Zag Tensegrity Torus Datasheet >> > To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > >> > Ref: >> > >> > >> > http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l10torus1spec.ht ml >> > >> > Just in time for the holiday season! The tensegrity torus! >> Scroll >> > down >> > to the bottom for pictures. >> > Wouldn't it make a great holiday wreath? I also designed a >> smaller >> > eight-stage (24 struts) >> > version which the clearances are kind of tighter on. This version >> has >> > ten stages (30 struts). >> > >> > Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:30:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Global Military Expenditures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable World military expenditures from 1989 to 1999 have dropped by 35% = according to the USA Department of State: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/18723.pdf -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:49:21 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Zig-Zag Tensegrity Torus Datasheet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug, Your message got through to the geodesic list, but somehow lost its subject header. Sounds like a jig might be a good thing for me to try at some point. Maybe I can grab an old Christmas wreath :-). Handling the hubs is the weak point of my knitting procedure. Sometimes I don't position things right and I have to go back and retie when the structure get further along and I see my forward visualization hasn't quite panned out. The ray traces help avoid these sorts of problems and I've just lately started using them as a reference for model building in addition to the usual schematic. Thanks for your suggestion. Bob Doug Milliken wrote: >Hi Bob, > >Sometime, I recommend trying the jig method for quick model building. It >saves a lot of time measuring out lengths of string. We worked this out at >a "Tensigrity Party" in my dorm room. Probably was not long after I went >to a Bucky lecture in Boston. This was back in the mid-1970s, might >be some holes in my memory... > >The struts were square rods (made in a wood shop) with thin slots in the >ends. Button thread was tied to one end of a strut, then the thread was >run from one strut to the next, tieing off when required. With the struts >held in place it was easy to tense everything up before removing the >cardboard solid inside. I think we made models that were the "doubles" of a >cube and trapezoid, but I don't remember what some of the others made. > >Anyway, thanks for your reply. I might take a crack at one of your >beautiful structures one of these days! > >-- Doug Milliken > >On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Bob Burkhardt wrote: > > > >>Ref: >>http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l08torus1spec.html >> >>Hi Doug, >> >>I've got my struts all ready to go. I've never used a jig to assemble a >>tensegrity, and for these linear sorts of tensegrity I think it's even >>less necessary. I've compared assembling a tensegrity to knitting >>although I've never knitted myself, just watched others. My >>plan is to assemble one stage at a time. I'll start by tying a >>hexagonal ring of "tS" and "TS" tendons uniting six struts, three struts >>going one way and three struts going the other way. Then at one of the >>opposite ends I'll tie another ring which will introduce another three >>struts. Then I'll have the framework for one tensegrity prism which >>I'll first tie the "guy" tendons for and then the "tT" tendons. Then I >>can just continue at either end of that prism, tieing up new prisms >>stage by stage until I wrap around the whole torus. The asymmetry of >>the prisms will mean I have to take a little care in making sure I >>choose the right lengths for each "guy" and "tT" tendon, maybe marking >>the struts somehow with point labels so I don't get them confused, but >>other than that I think it's pretty straight forward though I always >>find assembling a tensegrity a pretty challenging intellectual exercise. >>This strategy is based on my experience assembling the arch which >>has the same topology for most of the stages (see >>http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l8arch2.html). >> >>I'm going to use braided nylon fishing line and 3/8" dowels (cut to >>230mm lengths) with >>picture-framing screw eyes in either end. If I run into a tight tendon, >>I'll tie it using a temporary wire first and then tie in the nylon >>tendon. I try to keep things easy though by tying in the tight tendons >>first when they will be slacker and tying in the looser tendons last >>(see the table of relative member forces for who's tight and who's loose). >> >>I've computed "Construction Lengths" and added them to the datasheet. >>These are member lengths I compute taking into account the actual scale >>of the structure, the hub dimensions and the tightness of each tendon. >>The accommodation of the hub dimensions is somewhat ad hoc, but nylon is >>forgiving enough it does alright. >> >>Bob >> >>On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:21:20 -0500 (EST) Doug Milliken >>writes: >> >> >> >>>Bob & Dick, >>> >>>Great work!! (I caught the post on bit.listserv.geodesic ) >>> >>>Now, tell us how to jig the struts, so we can try to make one of >>>these. I remember making simple tensigrities easy to assemble by, >>>for example, attaching the struts to the sides of a cube, then >>>stringing >>>them up, and finally removing the cube from the middle. >>> >>>Any bright suggestions? Maybe use a real Christmas wreath and poke >>>the struts through the branches, removing the pine branches at >>>the end... >>> >>>-- Doug Milliken bd427@bfn.org (not posting due to SWEN problems) >>> >>> >>>On 28 Nov 2003, Dick Fischbeck wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Subject: Zig-Zag Tensegrity Torus Datasheet >>>>To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> >>>>Ref: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l10torus1spec.ht ml >> >> >>>>Just in time for the holiday season! The tensegrity torus! >>>> >>>> >>>Scroll >>> >>> >>>>down >>>>to the bottom for pictures. >>>>Wouldn't it make a great holiday wreath? I also designed a >>>> >>>> >>>smaller >>> >>> >>>>eight-stage (24 struts) >>>>version which the clearances are kind of tighter on. This version >>>> >>>> >>>has >>> >>> >>>>ten stages (30 struts). >>>> >>>>Bob >>>> >>>> > > >. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:10:56 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Zig-Zag Tensegrity Torus Datasheet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Doug, Channel1 has been sending these bogus "failed mail delivery" messages back to everyone who sends mail to my Channel1 address. All the mail seems to get through OK despite what the message says. Your post got through to the geodesic list OK. I never see my posts because when I signed up for the service I selected the no-echo option so I never get my own posts. It's still easy enough to check to see if your post got through by looking at http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html. By hubs, I mean the place where the tendons are connected to the struts, which on my dowel-and-fishing-line structures is a screw eye fastened to the dowel which forms the strut. On my hardwood-garden-stake-and-nylon-fishing-line structures, the hubs are holes drilled into either end of the stake. Thanks for the info on jigs. Bob On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:59:44 -0500 (EST) Doug Milliken writes: > > Bob, > > I did get one post from the geodesic list, but it wasn't > mine...maybe the > listserv is slow or my inbox is jammed with spam and rejecting > things? > Also, I note that the "reply to:" address on your email (channel1) > bounces, > I've been using the juno address from the bottom of your web page. > Computers...can't live with them, etc...! > > Jigging is an interesting topic--for example, consider the jigs > required to > hold the tubes in place when these spaceframe bikes are built (I'm a > dealer > and friend of Alex Moulton): > www.alexmoulton.co.uk > The bikes are actually built in stages, first planar "ladders" are > brazed > up with the zig-zags, then these are clamped in the master jig to > braze in > the kingpin, head and seat tubes. > Moulton has a designer/machininist/craftsman on his staff who made > the jigs. > > Ref your note below, when you say "hubs" do you mean "struts"? Or > is > part of the tensigrity torus (or arch) called a hub? > > I wasn't too serious about using a wreath, but maybe a couple of > sheets of > styrofoam could be used to poke some of the struts through, to hold > them > generally in place? Your ray traced pictures are fantastic, but > still > 2-d. > > - Doug ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:41:19 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: somewhat geodesic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Except for the top part, this might be considered a geodesic structure. Comments? http://www.aviewoncities.com/building/swissrebuilding.htm Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:40:49 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Foerd Subject: Re: somewhat geodesic In-Reply-To: <20031202234119.92099.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re Swiss Re Building, I wonder if you mean the top part is non-geodesic because top-down row 6 to 7 (one row above that "scaffolding" as far as I see) struts don't line up. The difference I see is the series of parallel horizontal strut annulations (spun about one axis) compared to RBF's frequently non-parallel relations of same. Foerd ------------------ Except for the top part, this might be considered a geodesic structure. Comments? http://www.aviewoncities.com/building/swissrebuilding.htm Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:51:08 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: somewhat geodesic In-Reply-To: <20031202234119.92099.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Keeping the symmetrical vs. asymmetrical geodesic issue aside, this is a Lamella framework. Blair Quoting Dick Fischbeck : > Except for the top part, this might be considered a geodesic structure. > Comments? > > http://www.aviewoncities.com/building/swissrebuilding.htm > > Dick > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:19:37 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Tensegrity Prism as Joint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/joint.html Here's a three-fold tensegrity prism I think might serve as a vertex for a cubic structure or a rectangular lattice. I plan to look into prisms that would serve as vertex joints for the other Platonic solids and non-orthogonal lattices. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:46:03 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: somewhat geodesic In-Reply-To: <1070466668.3fce066cd083b@webmail.domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Blair Oops. Right. Thanks. So, now I need to go look up the definition of the different dome types. Dick --- "" wrote: > Keeping the symmetrical vs. asymmetrical geodesic issue aside, this > is a > Lamella framework. > > Blair > > Quoting Dick Fischbeck : > > > Except for the top part, this might be considered a geodesic > structure. > > Comments? > > > > http://www.aviewoncities.com/building/swissrebuilding.htm > > > > Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:53:31 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: designboom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://www.designboom.com/history/tensegrity.html Designboom recently put my brainstorm list of tensegrity dome applications at the bottom of this page. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:46:39 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: How high can a geodesic dome go? How stable is the dome? Comments: To: paulbard04@yahoo.com.au Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul, There really is no limit to how large a geodesic dome can be. Your dome could be miles in diameter. Please see my collection of refs on dome cities http://buckminster.info/Index/City.htm and http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-C.htm (scroll to "Cities") Such large domes would have to use Tensegrity technology; see http://buckminster.info/Index/Tem-Tetq.htm and http://buckminster.info/Index/Domes-T.htm Keep in mind that a dome of more than a half-mile in diameter would have to be well anchored, otherwise it would float out to the edge of space like a hot air balloon. The walls of such large domes would be wide enough that people could live in them. And, of course, they could also orbit in space. See http://buckminster.info/Ideas/08-IcosDomeCityCloud.htm http://buckminster.info/Ideas/08-IcosDomeSpaceNear.htm http://buckminster.info/Ideas/08-IcosDomeSpaceFar.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "paulbard04" To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:23 PM Subject: [Geodesic Dome Homes] how high can a geodesic dome go? how stable is the dome? > > I am a writer doing research for a novel which uses a giant geodesic > dome as the setting. Given how stable the structure is, how large a > dome would be possible? In the first draft I have put the zenith of > the dome at four kilometers high, so it has its own atmosphere and > environment. Clearly this novel is set in the future still :-) but > I just would like to ask if anyone knows is this possible? credible > even? > > Your replies would be much regarded. Thanks. > > Paul Bard. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:56:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Nanotech Video Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A very interesting 1 hr streaming video overview of nanotechnology = including Buckyballs & Buckytubes, etc: "Interviews with a number of scientists including Jim Gimzewski. Nanotechnology - Japanese tv broadcast (real media)" -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:16:10 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Bucky says, Be a-political -- don't worry whether that's an oxymoron. Bucky says, Get your own dome in order. Bucky says, There's no Wholly Brutish Umpire, even though we are stuck in a "militia in mufti dysappeared into the hills" quagmire, at the behest of Tony "hey, George; let's you and Saddam fight" Blair's cheers (and supply of a few-thousand troops) -- just like Dame Maggie said & did. would Bucky go-along with the mainstream media and the Dem Party, in covering up the fact that the planner of the war, since '91, is under investigation by the Senate Congressional Cmte. on Intelligence, for the treasonable offense of lying to get us into it?... I don't know, if he were given an explanation, if he'd even listen. I do think that this is an especial Holiday Opportunity to apply pinky-pressure to Trickier Dick -- via your Congressors -- and possibly to leave the British in their own **** (this time; as you can see, the Iraqi Constitution that we just tore-up, was developed while fighting *decades* of British imperialism ("free trade" -- Obnoxico (tm)?)). Bucky's ideal of "democracy" (see _Critical Path_), apparently shared by the current "Republican" admin., is to have gigantic plebiscites that monitor everyone's vibes on an issue, seated in front of the Dymaxion TV, or whatever, via satellite (probably a retinal scan involved). the current "erected" governor of California is also planning to use the plebiscite format, of giving the electorate a set of putrid choices. (in case that you didn't know, this is also the form that was often used in Nazi Germany, imperial Rome, Sparta etc.; sometimes a.k.a. "jacobinism.") "As he has done in recent major campaign speeches, LaRouche identifies Vice President Cheney as the chief proponent in the Administration of the doctrine of preventive nuclear-armed warfare, a policy which Cheney has been pushing since the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. 'Since January 2002, as a result of that policy, U.S. relations with the rest of the world have degenerated to a degree beyond anything in our memory of the past century....'" references, from the #2 Dem presidential candidate, in number of individual contribs., as tabulated by the FEC in October: http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047dc_primry_news.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046china_v_us_asia.html thus quoth: World military expenditures from 1989 to 1999 have dropped by 35% according to the USA Department of State: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/18723.pdf --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX Http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm (content partiale, below): 17 -- L'ATTEMPTER de COUP D'ETAT, 3/30/81 23 -- Le FIN d'HISTOIRE 24 -- L'ORDEUR du MONDE NOUVEAU 25 -- THYROID STORK !?! http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year — six months @$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:34:06 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed also, this on British terror-bombing policies: http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3042shock_awe_wwii.html -- maybe, you could install an anti-aircraft system on your dome! thus saith: the current "erected" governor of California is also planning to use the plebiscite format, of giving the electorate a set of putrid choices. (in case that you didn't know, this is also the form that was often used in Nazi Germany, imperial Rome, Sparta etc.; sometimes a.k.a. "jacobinism.") "As he has done in recent major campaign speeches, LaRouche identifies Vice President Cheney as the chief proponent in the Administration of the doctrine of preventive nuclear-armed warfare, a policy which Cheney has been pushing since the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. 'Since January 2002, as a result of that policy, U.S. relations with the rest of the world have degenerated to a degree beyond anything in our memory of the past century....'" http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 03:07:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed one more clue. this is also the truth behind the famous saying of Churchill, "Democracy is the worst political system, except for all of the others." it's *cynical*, and it's what the imperialists ply in their realm: mobocracy. remember, why would the "Republicans" want to destroy the Electoral College, through gaming the USA and Florida Constitutions -- violating them, through a Supreme Court majority [*] ??... what would happen, if North Dakota had "less than one (EC) vote?" that is an easy, rhetorical question! George Soros is currently the leading (British) promoter of this crap, as he is now trying to buy-up what's left of the Dem Party. yes, he learned it at the London School of Econ., what he didn't learn in Vichy Hungary. http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html * see Bugliosi's _None Dare Call It Treason_, which also shows that Team Gore had no defense, at all; and, why was that? thus saith: also, this on British terror-bombing policies: http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3042shock_awe_wwii.html -- maybe, you could install an anti-aircraft system on your dome! --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:55:34 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Foerd Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wrong Listserve, again. Foerd Ames -----Original Message----- From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Quincy Quincy Quincy Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:34 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures also, this on British terror-bombing policies: http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3042shock_awe_wwii.html -- maybe, you could install an anti-aircraft system on your dome! thus saith: the current "erected" governor of California is also planning to use the plebiscite format, of giving the electorate a set of putrid choices. (in case that you didn't know, this is also the form that was often used in Nazi Germany, imperial Rome, Sparta etc.; sometimes a.k.a. "jacobinism.") "As he has done in recent major campaign speeches, LaRouche identifies Vice President Cheney as the chief proponent in the Administration of the doctrine of preventive nuclear-armed warfare, a policy which Cheney has been pushing since the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. 'Since January 2002, as a result of that policy, U.S. relations with the rest of the world have degenerated to a degree beyond anything in our memory of the past century....'" http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 06:48:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed perhaps you have an analysis of this statement of yours -- and you could articulate it -- and we might even accept it. Bucky's "apolitical" stance seems to have come from the work of Arnold Toynbee, althoough he never mentioned him. Sir Arnold was an officer of British Intel., working at Vanderbilt U. any more questions?... would you like a reference for that?... does it matter, in the current context of the Mideast?... would you like to join the Dick Cheney Fan Club, or the DNC "Blue Dogs?" thus quoth: Wrong Listserve, again. "As he has done in recent major campaign speeches, LaRouche identifies Vice President Cheney as the chief proponent in the Administration of the doctrine of preventive nuclear-armed warfare, a policy which Cheney has been pushing since the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. 'Since January 2002, as a result of that policy, U.S. relations with the rest of the world have degenerated to a degree beyond anything in our memory of the past century....'" http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html --les ducs de Buffet; vote NONE OF THE BELOW on Trickier Dick Cheney's California Recall & e-Dereg (secret energy policy meetings) !! http://larouchepub.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 14:08:24 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Nanotech Video MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are sobering questions emerging about the ramifications of introduction into the environment of nanoparticles. http://www.nanopathology.it/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:27:58 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Foerd Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Get realistic, dude. Foerd perhaps you have an analysis of this statement of yours -- and you could articulate it -- and we might even accept it. Bucky's "apolitical" stance seems to have come from the work of Arnold Toynbee, althoough he never mentioned him. Sir Arnold was an officer of British Intel., working at Vanderbilt U. any more questions?... would you like a reference for that?... does it matter, in the current context of the Mideast?... would you like to join the Dick Cheney Fan Club, or the DNC "Blue Dogs?" thus quoth: Wrong Listserve, again. "As he has done in recent major campaign speeches, LaRouche identifies Vice President Cheney as the chief proponent in the Administration of the doctrine of preventive nuclear-armed warfare, a policy which Cheney has been pushing since the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. 'Since January 2002, as a result of that policy, U.S. relations with the rest of the world have degenerated to a degree beyond anything in our memory of the past century....'" http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html --les ducs de Buffet; vote NONE OF THE BELOW on Trickier Dick Cheney's California Recall & e-Dereg (secret energy policy meetings) !! http://larouchepub.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 22:35:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Bucky Stamp Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The US Postal Service will issue in 2004 a new Bucky stamp: "An inventor, architect, engineer and philosopher, R. Buckminster Fuller = has been called one of America's most original thinkers. This stamp = honors Fuller on the 50th anniversary of his patent for the geodesic = dome." http://www.usps.com/communications/news/images/04stamps/04_fuller37_d.jpg= -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 22:15:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: You have been sent a Jigsaw Puzzle! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jigsaw Puzzle Dome A friend has sent you a Jigsaw Puzzle using the Shockwave.com JigsawMaker! Click on the link below to play the puzzle: http://www.shockwave.com/bin/content/jigsawmaker.jsp?doc=12399092/1070864118334_604 (or copy and paste the above address into your web browser) To view the Shockwave.com privacy policy, use the following link: http://www.atomshockwave.com/asw_legal_privacy.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 06:54:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe, you're the master of many files. Do you know where the dedication of the First Day Issue of Bucky's stamp will be? It will certainly be a commemorative event. Blair Quoting Joe S Moore : > The US Postal Service will issue in 2004 a new Bucky stamp: > > "An inventor, architect, engineer and philosopher, R. Buckminster Fuller has > been called one of America's most original thinkers. This stamp honors Fuller > on the 50th anniversary of his patent for the geodesic dome." > > http://www.usps.com/communications/news/images/04stamps/04_fuller37_d.jpg > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 20:19:15 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Blair, The USPO 2004 Commemerative Stamp Program list is here: http://www.usps.com/communications/news/stamps/2003/sr03_065stamps.htm (scroll to "R Buckminster Fuller") First Day Stamp Ceremonies are announced on this page: http://www.usps.com/communications/news/calendar/firstdayschedule.htm I guess we'll have to keep an eye on it to know when & where the event will take place. I'm guessing it will be at BFI? -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 6:54 AM Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp > Joe, you're the master of many files. > > Do you know where the dedication of the First Day Issue of Bucky's stamp will > be? It will certainly be a commemorative event. > > Blair > > Quoting Joe S Moore : > > > The US Postal Service will issue in 2004 a new Bucky stamp: > > > > "An inventor, architect, engineer and philosopher, R. Buckminster Fuller has > > been called one of America's most original thinkers. This stamp honors Fuller > > on the 50th anniversary of his patent for the geodesic dome." > > > > http://www.usps.com/communications/news/images/04stamps/04_fuller37_d.jpg > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:18:10 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Isn't that the art work for Bucky's TIME cover ? Wonderful stamp! Can't wait to get some. -----Original Message----- From: Joe S Moore [mailto:joe_s_moore@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 9:19 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp Blair, The USPO 2004 Commemerative Stamp Program list is here: http://www.usps.com/communications/news/stamps/2003/sr03_065stamps.htm (scroll to "R Buckminster Fuller") First Day Stamp Ceremonies are announced on this page: http://www.usps.com/communications/news/calendar/firstdayschedule.htm I guess we'll have to keep an eye on it to know when & where the event will take place. I'm guessing it will be at BFI? -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 6:54 AM Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp > Joe, you're the master of many files. > > Do you know where the dedication of the First Day Issue of Bucky's stamp will > be? It will certainly be a commemorative event. > > Blair > > Quoting Joe S Moore : > > > The US Postal Service will issue in 2004 a new Bucky stamp: > > > > "An inventor, architect, engineer and philosopher, R. Buckminster Fuller has > > been called one of America's most original thinkers. This stamp honors Fuller > > on the 50th anniversary of his patent for the geodesic dome." > > > > http://www.usps.com/communications/news/images/04stamps/04_fuller37_d.jpg > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:41:50 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: tensegrity framework MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob B. I found this on synergeo and thought you might like to see the paper if you have not yet run across it. http://atom.princeton.edu/donev/Packing/LPRigidity/ Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:37:41 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As the recognition of Bucky thrills us, let us remind ourselves of the sobering side; that being the fact that Bucky's ideas are forwarded by innovative geniuses/dedicated engineers (on the sidelines of society) and small, capiltalistic ventures against the entrenched banker/industrialists (that's fascism, take note Q). Let's take it upon ourselves to multiply the number of people concious of Bucky and what society might look like now, if his thoughts and ideas were openly discussed, reflected upon, and forwarded as a society. Commit yourself to become an engaging small talk expert on Bucky's vision, as well as integrating his work in public forums, ala Leifer's school programs (as an example). Domed cities saving 95% heating and cooling costs are just one riveting point to break ice. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:57:41 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: 4th prototype Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Randome4, constructed out of aluminum sheeting and plexiglass. Total cost for shell with labor, $1800 or $4/square-foot floorspace. http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=181 http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=182 http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=183 Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:24:36 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: tensegrity framework MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks. Looks interesting. Bob Dick Fischbeck wrote: >Bob > >I found this on synergeo and thought you might like to see the paper if >you have not yet run across it. > >http://atom.princeton.edu/donev/Packing/LPRigidity/ > >Dick > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:37:18 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think we have to blame Joe for bringing up military spending. Joe's post was an interesting one. Unfortunately it may just be a small blip as the things move into post-9/11 mode. I wonder how they measure spending by terrorists etc.or maybe military spending just means official killingry outlays? Bob Foerd wrote: >Wrong Listserve, again. > >Foerd Ames > > >-----Original Message----- >From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >[mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Quincy Quincy Quincy >Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:34 PM >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures > > >also, this on British terror-bombing policies: >http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3042shock_awe_wwii.html -- >maybe, you could install an anti-aircraft system on your dome! > >thus saith: > the current "erected" governor of California is also planning >to use the plebiscite format, of giving the electorate a set of putrid >choices. (in case that >you didn't know, this is also the form that was often used in Nazi Germany, >imperial Rome, Sparta etc.; sometimes a.k.a. "jacobinism.") > >"As he has done in recent major campaign speeches, LaRouche identifies Vice >President Cheney as the chief proponent in the Administration of the >doctrine of preventive nuclear-armed warfare, a policy which Cheney has been >pushing since the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. 'Since January 2002, as a >result of that policy, U.S. relations with the rest of the world have >degenerated to a degree beyond anything in our memory of the past >century....'" > >http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html >http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html >http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html > >--A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): >Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... >http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:13:39 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Foerd Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures In-Reply-To: <3FD6327E.7010903@channel1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, sorry. I must have missed it. Yes, I should open up to RBF livingry concepts as pertinent to the present state of global affairs. I guess I'm usually in wonderment of what we're all, on this sphere, bickering about in the face of environmental shift. Is it really about who controls sacred ground or oil ground? Is it West, particularly USA exposure to the decreasingly less fortunate through, for example, some of the vaporous, self-indulgent, television representations beamed around the world without embarrassment (as "Survivor-ites" abusingly tromple past indigenous indigence)? In terms of oil, we could easily save it for its best function(s), turn with accelerated vigor, and embrace some of the progressively materially waste-less, very exciting, technologies- fuel cells and energy interchange within the hydrologic cycle. There are so many opportunities that I wish all of us, now alive, would stop the bickering and scratching and accomplish what needed to happen years ago. Mumblingly, Foerd www.owec.com I think we have to blame Joe for bringing up military spending. Joe's post was an interesting one. Unfortunately it may just be a small blip as the things move into post-9/11 mode. I wonder how they measure spending by terrorists etc.or maybe military spending just means official killingry outlays? Bob Foerd wrote: >Wrong Listserve, again. > >Foerd Ames > > >-----Original Message----- >From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works >[mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Quincy Quincy Quincy >Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:34 PM >To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures > > >also, this on British terror-bombing policies: >http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3042shock_awe_wwii.html -- >maybe, you could install an anti-aircraft system on your dome! > >thus saith: > the current "erected" governor of California is also planning >to use the plebiscite format, of giving the electorate a set of putrid >choices. (in case that >you didn't know, this is also the form that was often used in Nazi Germany, >imperial Rome, Sparta etc.; sometimes a.k.a. "jacobinism.") > >"As he has done in recent major campaign speeches, LaRouche identifies Vice >President Cheney as the chief proponent in the Administration of the >doctrine of preventive nuclear-armed warfare, a policy which Cheney has been >pushing since the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. 'Since January 2002, as a >result of that policy, U.S. relations with the rest of the world have >degenerated to a degree beyond anything in our memory of the past >century....'" > >http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html >http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html >http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html > >--A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): >Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... >http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX >http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:22:06 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures In-Reply-To: <3FD6327E.7010903@channel1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > I think we have to blame Joe for bringing up military spending. > Joe's > post was an interesting one. Unfortunately it may just be a small > blip > as the things move into post-9/11 mode. I wonder how they measure > spending by terrorists etc.or maybe military spending just means > official killingry outlays? I'm more hopeful. I can imagine it is a new trend. Don't forget too that ultimatly the cost of livingry will decrease as well. Right? Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:26:09 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed oops -- RE: Rejected posting to GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU get realistic what?... my name is Plastic Ice; my album, hopefully in time for Xmas, is "Dinosaur Heaven," and there *will* be a song about Fossileum (tm/Obnoxico), dedicated to the followers of Are Buckafka Fullofit! this, here, is for you sailing dudes & dudettes: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/fall%202003/Guara.html this, now, is for those of you with "other" concerns: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/fall%202003/interview.html --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids’ toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:24:17 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well certainly military spending in the Easter (Europe) Bloc has plummeted. Ours went down for a bit but now seems to be returning to its former trend. I imagine Western Europe's spending is moving above trend, but with their more global orientation I find it less worrisome, but still cause for concern. China's expenditures must be mushrooming as must be India's now that those blocks are increasing in influence and income. Hopefully the randome and understanding of tensegrity structuring will have a stabilizing effect. Bob Dick Fischbeck wrote: >--- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > > >>I think we have to blame Joe for bringing up military spending. >>Joe's >>post was an interesting one. Unfortunately it may just be a small >>blip >>as the things move into post-9/11 mode. I wonder how they measure >>spending by terrorists etc.or maybe military spending just means >>official killingry outlays? >> >> > >I'm more hopeful. I can imagine it is a new trend. > >Don't forget too that ultimatly the cost of livingry will decrease as >well. Right? > >Dick > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. >http://photos.yahoo.com/ > >. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:21 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah Q, Speaking of dinosaurs, you dig up the Jurrasic Park zombie Lyndon LaRouche (LL), albeit with his "agree & disarm/cat out of the bag/finger to the wind" political writings. As detailed before, he baits (& switches) his audiences with: 1. LL revelations of over centralized banking, LL recommending as a fix....drum roll ..over centralized banking....er, say wha'? 2. The 100% failure rate of prohibitions, with LL detailing nicely in his 70's book Dope, Inc., *all* prohibition's ills(which are numerous & lead to a prison state), he then recommends....drum roll....continuing prohibitions....huh? 3. His selective science blog, producing some good/great "bait", and "switching" to support of the Coal-Oil-Nuclear ( CON ) genocidal/ecocidal masters From Dr. John Goffman, the first man selected to head up the Atomic Energy Commission's studies on radioactivety and health..... "Licensing a nuclear power plant is in my view, licensing random premeditated murder. First of all, when you license a plant, you know what you're doing--so it's premeditated. You can't say, "I didn't know." Second, the evidence on radiation-producing cancer is beyond doubt. I've worked fifteen years on it [as of 1982], and so have many others. It is not a question any more: radiation produces cancer, and the evidence is good all the way down to the lowest doses." The link to the above paragraph : http://www.ratical.org/radiation/inetSeries/nwJWG.html 4. LL's science blog also being guilty of global warming denial, as evidenced here: "Chlorine from natural sources is soluble, and so it gets rained out of the lower atmosphere," the journal Science explained (6/11/93). "CFCs, in contrast, are insoluble and inert and thus make it to the stratosphere to release their chlorine." Science also noted that chlorine found in the stratosphere-- where it can eat away at Earth's protective ozone layer--is always found with other byproducts of CFCs, and not with the byproducts of natural chlorine sources. "Ozone depletion is real, as certain as Neil Armstrong's landing on the moon," Dr. Sherwood Rowland, an atmospheric chemist at the University of California at Irvine, told Extra!. "Natural causes of ozone depletion are not significant." But Limbaugh didn't rely on atmospheric scientists for his information about the ozone layer--he dismissed them as the "agenda-oriented scientific community." Instead, he turned to Dixy Lee Ray, a former Washington State governor and Atomic Energy Commission chair, who wrote Trashing the Planet--"the most footnoted, documented book I have ever read," Limbaugh says. If you check Ray's footnotes, you'll find that the main source for the volcano theory is Rogelio Maduro, the associate editor of 21st Century Science & Technology, a magazine published by the Lyndon LaRouche network. Maduro is evidently not part of the "agenda-oriented scientific community"--even though he does have a bachelor's degree in geology Which leads to this: http://www.spacedaily.com/2003/031206151721.ha5156ha.html Dr. Sherwood Roland's (quoted above) bio http://www.physsci.uci.edu/da/ess/faculty/rowland/ For all Bucky newbies, I submit that LL ultimately represents the blind ecocidal/genocidal predation of those already in power, using political writing of "finger to the wind" facts to bait & 180 degree switch the unsuspecting. Two more areas where LL needs an education or to be exposed as misleading are here. TENC has it all over the dunderhead or demonic LL, who plays the blame game on Israel & stands amongst the tragically silent on Yugoslavia http://emperors-clothes.com/israelguide.htm#1 http://emperors-clothes.com/yugo.htm#1 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:08:18 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder how the DoD's "losing of the accounting trail" of 2.3 trillion dollars, as reported to congress *last year* plays into a lower military spending scenario? I'll dig up the link if someone wants it, let me know. Notice how the news (spews) services are all over that one (and for that matter LL). NOT! BTW HUD can't find 1.1 trillion (also submitted to congress last year)...Here any candidates promising a full investigation on those points? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:15:43 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fw: Roger Manson and Dymaxion Car MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: C. Niel Manson=20 To: Joe S. Moore=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 4:52 PM Mr. Moore, Finally I have gotten someone to respond to my plea to fill a void in = the history of the Dymaxion. I was born in 1945. My father was born in 1918 in Chicago. His name = was Roger A. Manson. When I was a child I first heard him telling = stories of the weird car he used to own. I am fuzzy on the exact dates = but some details are very vivid. The story went like this: Roger Manson worked at the US Bureau of Standards (USBS) at some = lowly position. He was sent at one time to Tucson, Arizona, during the = war which indicates something to me but I am not sure what. Anyway, he = and a fellow employee "Pops" Endicott were at the Offices of Gulf Oil = Co. when word came down for Gulf to dispose of the Dymaxion they owned. = My father and Pops happened to be in the room and one thing led to = another with the result that between the two of them they put up one = dollar and took title to the car. I believe, after reviewing several = photos that this was car #1. My dad told me that Gulf sold it due to = the bad publicity caused by the fatal accident.=20 =20 My dad and Pops eventually determined that the instability of the = vehicle was caused by the fact that the rear wheel had 0 degrees castor. = They modified the trailing wheel angle slightly and experienced no = problems thereafter. My dad said that he drove the car around DC (he = lived on MacArthur Boulevard) for an extended time using it as a mobile = signboard for advertisements. I am not sure how, but he eventually = turned the car over to the USBS. I believe that the Bureau probably = owned it when it was arranged for the George Washington Parkway to be = closed for an extended speed trial. He said he drove from Alexandria to = Mt. Vernon and back at 120 mph with a policeman at every intersection.=20 =20 The interlude before the USBS took ownership of #1 is perhaps explained = by the above sequence of events. Several years ago I was looking at a = book about Bucky and stumbled across a picture taken at the Bureau from = what appears to be the second floor of a building. The photo showed #1 = sitting on the asphalt surrounded by men in lab coats. My father stood = on the drivers with his foot possessively in the door. I asked my = mother (since deceased) if she recognized anyone in the picture. She = said "only your dad". I remember going to Richmond to the Virginia Prison with my dad so that = he could visit Pops who was incarcerated for bad checks. This was in = approximately 1955-1958.=20 Thus ends my tale. I enclose a copy of family picture showing #1 in = the back yard of the MacArthur Boulevard home. No date recorded. If you need a better picture, let me know and I will send a print to = you.=20 Do what you think best with this information. Sincerely, Charles Niel Manson 5911 Bonneau Rd. Richmond, Virginia 23227 ph. 804-264-5337 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:43:17 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Did anyone see the History Channel's "Failed Inventions" last night? They really dissed Bucky and the Dymaxion house. They failed to mention that its demise was not a failure of the House or the design and there were many orders for the house. Rather there was an impasse between Bucky and Beech Aircraft resulting in Bucky's killing the project. The program also seemed to imply the Geodesic Dome was a failed invention, failing to recall the Expo Dome and The Antarctic dome, etal where Geodesic structures have performed admirably and "As Advertised" so to speak. This type of reporting makes me question the accuracy of History/Discovery Channel shows in general. -Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:55:01 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Subject: Re: Fw: Roger Manson and Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Joe, This is a nice bit of history, thanks for posting it, I'll stick a copy in one of our books near pictures of the car. Our business is vehicle dynamics (vehicle steering and handling) and the Dymaxion car has always been interesting to think about... We have never actually tried to run any sort of analysis on it. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: C. Niel Manson > To: Joe S. Moore > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 4:52 PM > > > Mr. Moore, > > Finally I have gotten someone to respond to my plea to fill a void in the history of the Dymaxion. > I was born in 1945. My father was born in 1918 in Chicago. His name was Roger A. Manson. When I was a child I first heard him telling stories of the weird car he used to own. I am fuzzy on the exact dates but some details are very vivid. The story went like this: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:50:59 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: John Saylor Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC39603ACF@pscserver3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline hi ( 03.12.11 10:43 -0600 ) Tony Kalenak: > This type of reporting makes me question the accuracy of > History/Discovery Channel shows in general. isn't all media suspect? especially commercial media whose main purpose is to increase shareholder value [not inform/enlighten]. -- \js "don't panic" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:04:30 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The powers that be(PWB) use such mental programming to discourage any investigation into methodologies that hold genuine potential. Why chase a dead horse? The math that Bucky revitalised echos and bridges to the sacred math hidden in all cultures, another *major* reason the PWB monitor those working with it and actively work to suppress it, as it's knowledge in the general populace would awaken dormant potentials in same. Meru.org for western scrip, others on request ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:12:37 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [ Sound's like a Dale Gribble moment to me ;-) ] I see another potential conflict of interest... These channels (and all their brother and sister channels) have all those "Home Improvement" shows With highly profitable sponsors like HOME DEPOT which have much at stake in the STATUS QUO. Great opportunity for them to slam a dramatic alternative to the traditional dwelling. -----Original Message----- From: John Saylor [mailto:johns@WORLDWINNER.COM] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:51 AM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" hi ( 03.12.11 10:43 -0600 ) Tony Kalenak: > This type of reporting makes me question the accuracy of > History/Discovery Channel shows in general. isn't all media suspect? especially commercial media whose main purpose is to increase shareholder value [not inform/enlighten]. -- \js "don't panic" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:29:54 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Subject: Re: Fw: Roger Manson and Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Joe and all, Further to the car. I showed Mr Manson's history to my father, Bill Milliken. As a young man, Bill drove from Maine to California in 1932 in a Ford Model A, stopping at points of interest (aviation, automotive, etc) along the way. He distinctly remembers stopping in Hammondsport, NY and visiting the Glenn Curtiss plant--where there was a Dymaxion car being worked on. He's not sure exactly what work was being done, but it was a complete (or nearly complete) car in summer of 1932. I just looked through the transport chapter in our old copy of "The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller" and didn't see any mention of Curtiss at all. Does anyone know what part Curtiss played in the car story, or can you point me to a reference that discusses it? -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: C. Niel Manson > To: Joe S. Moore > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 4:52 PM > > > Mr. Moore, > > Finally I have gotten someone to respond to my plea to fill a void in the history of the Dymaxion. > Charles Niel Manson > 5911 Bonneau Rd. > Richmond, Virginia 23227 > ph. 804-264-5337 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:41:42 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Fw: Roger Manson and Dymaxion Car MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug, Don't know if this will help, but here is my collection of Dymaxion Car references: http://buckminster.info/Index/Dymax-Dz.htm (scroll to "Car" and "Vehicle") -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Milliken" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:29 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Roger Manson and Dymaxion Car > Joe and all, > > Further to the car. I showed Mr Manson's history to my father, Bill > Milliken. As a young man, Bill drove from Maine to California in 1932 in a > Ford Model A, stopping at points of interest (aviation, automotive, etc) > along the way. He distinctly remembers stopping in Hammondsport, NY and > visiting the Glenn Curtiss plant--where there was a Dymaxion car being > worked on. He's not sure exactly what work was being done, but it > was a complete (or nearly complete) car in summer of 1932. > > I just looked through the transport chapter in our old copy of "The > Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller" and didn't see any mention of Curtiss > at all. Does anyone know what part Curtiss played in the car story, or can > you point me to a reference that discusses it? > > -- Doug Milliken > www.millikenresearch.com > > > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: C. Niel Manson > > To: Joe S. Moore > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 4:52 PM > > > > > > Mr. Moore, > > > > Finally I have gotten someone to respond to my plea to fill a void in the history of the Dymaxion. > > > Charles Niel Manson > > 5911 Bonneau Rd. > > Richmond, Virginia 23227 > > ph. 804-264-5337 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:03:25 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Subject: Re: Fw: Roger Manson and Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Joe, Thanks -- great Index!! I think we have some of those books, will have to do some reading one of these days. -- Doug On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > Doug, > > Don't know if this will help, but here is my collection of Dymaxion Car > references: > > http://buckminster.info/Index/Dymax-Dz.htm (scroll to "Car" and "Vehicle") > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Milliken" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:29 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: Roger Manson and Dymaxion Car > > > > Joe and all, > > > > Further to the car. I showed Mr Manson's history to my father, Bill > > Milliken. As a young man, Bill drove from Maine to California in 1932 in > a > > Ford Model A, stopping at points of interest (aviation, automotive, etc) > > along the way. He distinctly remembers stopping in Hammondsport, NY and > > visiting the Glenn Curtiss plant--where there was a Dymaxion car being > > worked on. He's not sure exactly what work was being done, but it > > was a complete (or nearly complete) car in summer of 1932. > > > > I just looked through the transport chapter in our old copy of "The > > Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller" and didn't see any mention of > Curtiss > > at all. Does anyone know what part Curtiss played in the car story, or > can > > you point me to a reference that discusses it? > > > > -- Doug Milliken > > www.millikenresearch.com > > > > > > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > Joe S Moore > > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > > http://buckminster.info > > > ------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: C. Niel Manson > > > To: Joe S. Moore > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 4:52 PM > > > > > > > > > Mr. Moore, > > > > > > Finally I have gotten someone to respond to my plea to fill a void in > the history of the Dymaxion. > > > > > Charles Niel Manson > > > 5911 Bonneau Rd. > > > Richmond, Virginia 23227 > > > ph. 804-264-5337 > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:38:04 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" In-Reply-To: <144.1e5307fe.2d09fd9e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The phrase is " beat a dead horse." And if any of you city folk would like to know what it means, it's more to with beating an almost dead horse. When your horse lays down to die, it isn't always in the most convienant place. You can try beating the horse to get it to get up and move, but it will be to no avail. Blair in Quoting Mark Stehly : > The powers that be(PWB) use such mental programming to discourage any > investigation into methodologies that hold genuine potential. Why chase a > dead horse? > > The math that Bucky revitalised echos and bridges to the sacred math > hidden in all cultures, another *major* reason the PWB monitor those working > with > it and actively work to suppress it, as it's knowledge in the general > populace would awaken dormant potentials in same. > > Meru.org for western scrip, others on request > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:47:04 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Joe; This USPS website has all the first day ceremonies listed through 10/03! As well as BFI, the ceremony may be at Bear Island, or Carbondale. Blair Quoting Joe S Moore : > Blair, > > The USPO 2004 Commemerative Stamp Program list is here: > http://www.usps.com/communications/news/stamps/2003/sr03_065stamps.htm > (scroll to "R Buckminster Fuller") > > First Day Stamp Ceremonies are announced on this page: > http://www.usps.com/communications/news/calendar/firstdayschedule.htm > > I guess we'll have to keep an eye on it to know when & where the event will > take place. I'm guessing it will be at BFI? > > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 6:54 AM > Subject: Re: Bucky Stamp > > > > Joe, you're the master of many files. > > > > Do you know where the dedication of the First Day Issue of Bucky's stamp > will > > be? It will certainly be a commemorative event. > > > > Blair > > > > Quoting Joe S Moore : > > > > > The US Postal Service will issue in 2004 a new Bucky stamp: > > > > > > "An inventor, architect, engineer and philosopher, R. Buckminster > Fuller > has > > > been called one of America's most original thinkers. This stamp honors > Fuller > > > on the 50th anniversary of his patent for the geodesic dome." > > > > > > > http://www.usps.com/communications/news/images/04stamps/04_fuller37_d.jpg > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > Joe S Moore > > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > > http://buckminster.info > > > ------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:32:27 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dave Chapman Subject: The Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A couple of stupid questions: 1. Are there any Dymaxion Car still around? 2. If so, where are they? 3. Do we have blueprints, etc. to build any more? -dave ========================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:14:37 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Subject: Re: The Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20031212093227.00e74668@mail.monitor.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Others will probably know more. I believe the surviving car is in a museum in Reno, NV, it was found in the 1960's and restored (partially??) by Harrah's Museum. There are patent drawings (I have some that were re-printed in a Bucky calendar), maybe someone else knows about blueprints? I wonder how well a Dymaxion would fare in the USA crash tests (required for all new cars sold in USA)? -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Dave Chapman wrote: > A couple of stupid questions: > > 1. Are there any Dymaxion Car still around? > 2. If so, where are they? > 3. Do we have blueprints, etc. to build any more? > > -dave > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:10:13 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: The Dymaxion Car Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Joe: usually, your posts on the Buffalo listserv extend way-out in one long line, or a few of them, as was the case with the "car story," except that it was also extremely garbled, unlike a partial quote of it that I saw, later.... I just checked it on the Listserv (as opposed to the mailed version), and the long lines are there, but it isn't garbled. anyway, like I noted earlier, that 3-wheeled thing (that was in that dratted Austin Powers movie) was horribly unstable -- and the investors were burnt-up, especially the locals. this must have been found repeatedly by inventors, and it's pretty obvious that a tripod, once it reaches the limits of two of its legs' shocks, will pivot on that axis ... same thing applies to inline skates, if you think about it, and why even they have 4 wheels (I'm learning on a 3-wheel/per foot set for the interest of it, but I'd be afraid to use just two per skate ... although I'd almost bought a pair of "Rollerballs," with two ball-shaped wheels; when I called to order, I dyscovered taht they'd dyscontinued those, though they still had them in stock, for 3- and 4-ballers.... so, you *can* see the problem with just two; eh?) --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:16:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed good call, Markus. the quesion is, why do you rail ignorantly against My Fearless Leader -- and uselessly? thus quoth: I wonder how the DoD's "losing of the accounting trail" of 2.3 trillion dollars, as reported to congress *last year* plays into a lower military spending scenario? --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:00:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I was going to wait, but I'm just a sucker for these mini-provovations. clearly, you haven't takne much time to read our **** on the Lynburger sites, since most of what you say is ridiculous. so, I'll take your "points" out of order. the "Fed" central bank is modeled upon the Fed Rez ... of England; it's not constitutional, since that would require Congress to make the low-interest loans, like Lincoln did to fight the British satrapy, teh Confederacy. (anyway, Wilson's "Act" should have been a n Amendment.) no-one with Lyn is advocating the "Leo-con" Ashcroft's police-state measures -- you'd have to be a dolt to not see that, but, at least, you acknowledge one of the best works on teh drug trade, _Dope, Inc._ to my knowledge, CFCs have never been isolated in a sample from the ozonosphere, although some of the putative breakdown products have. I attended the annual UCLA Science Something Lecture by prof Turco (one "T" of the famous "TTAPS" study on nuke-yellar winter), and he had a nice animation of the CFC-12 molecules *with their heavy ends down* (toward Earth) spinning on that axis; they are much heavier than O2, N2, CO2 and H2O, the largest consittuents of the atmosphere. not surprisingly, as with the notable fractionation of the gases as one goes "up," one can find CFCs in the soil -- and there are microbes that process them! (also, there are large natural sources; can you name any?) this is to question your silly, quoted say-so about nuke-yellar power "murderers;" espcecailly note the results of the UNSEAR 2000 report on Chernobyl, after 15 years of media hype: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/nuclear.html http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/chernobyl.html http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/Cameron.summ.2000.html/John_Cameron.html the first URL is teh cover article that I found at BFI, and the second is about catalyzed or "cold" fusion: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/moon_nuc.html http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/summ01/cold_fusion/cold_fusion.html --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids’ toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:27:30 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Lawrence Couey Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" In-Reply-To: <2F175DC588EFD211B37C0060088FAC39603AD3@pscserver3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12/11/03 10:12 AM, Tony Kalenak wrote: >[ Sound's like a Dale Gribble moment to me ;-) ] > >I see another potential conflict of interest... > >These channels (and all their brother and sister channels) >have all those "Home Improvement" shows >With highly profitable sponsors like HOME DEPOT >which have much at stake in the STATUS QUO. > >Great opportunity for them to slam a dramatic alternative to the traditional >dwelling. > While I ALWAYS suspect (almost) ALL media, I suspect the authors may actually know little about Bucky and his works and are relying on someone else to give them direction info and not on personal research. I've already seen quite a few shows on the Discovery channel that have made all-inclusive statements that were at best not provable, and at the worst, lacking data (ie. newer research showing their conclusions are way off.) I've even see them run two shows that counterdict (sp?) each other in their conclusions. The media is always infullanced (sp?) by what the writers/editors see as popular and/or supports their views. (ie. "Don't confuse me with the truth!") LCouey p.s. sorry about the misspellings my new spell checker doesn't appear to have the dictionary my last one had . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:42:42 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Demonstrate the ignorance, he asks. I've already counted the ways. Have LL countermand Dr. Doug Roy, the first person selected to determine DU battlefield tachnology by the US Army, who said the wrong things, like 4.5 billion years of lethal toxicity spread throughout SE Europe, executing a genocidal injustice against the Serbs. Has your hero taken position 2 of 3? (as linked before here?) 2 being that "Slobodan bad, bombing bad" (as a humanistic means of curing a genocidal Serbian populace; a bald faced lie as they were not genocidal- we as a society are responsible for the spreading of a 4.5 billion year genocidal/ecocidal toxin in that region based on a lie that was set up by our beloved Intell. Teaming with Iran to import Islamist mercernaries and pushing the recreation of the Croat Ustasha, supposedly to fight the genocidal Serbs...I repeat a total lie. Iraq, with Saddam the ex banking and war partner of the Bush/Clinto n/Bush(team!) years, falling out of favor as we sorround the broken USSR, (to much here, I'll lose track) also a victim of the DU toxicity, along with Afghanistan, and 200,000 of our own veterans rail against the system helplessly as genetic defects, various raioactivety related diseases go untreated, undertreated, Viques, the Puerto Rican Island where DU "practise" rounds are a midical study in radioactive poisoning in one of our "protectorates". BTW, if Lyndon has mentioned the 2.3 trillion, kudos, if he's mentioned the HUD 1.1 trillion, kudos, If he's mentioned the CAFR (Comprehensive Annual Fianancial Report - 6.8 trillion) kudos If he can answer or echo the very important series on 1.Israel, 2. Yugoslavia, & 3. the "It's not about oil argument" You once sent in a recent editorial blurb from your "courageous" LL that defended prohibitions. I thought it so transparent and easily dissembled that I ignored it and let it be deleted. If youy send it again, I dissemble it so completely using documentation of no prohibition in history ever failing to become an instrument of organised crime and corrupt government freind and enemy, along with it's numerous other ills that no argument possible can ever be made for it's inclusion in a sane society as a final definitive argument. Add that to the aforementioned nuclear series on Ratical.org, and the science editors stance on the referred article on ozone depletion. Nuclear energy shill, and ozone damage denial source available in your community now. Sound sophisticated and well read by repeating what the money makers really desperately want to continue, no matter the risk. This is your hero? He should come with a warning as in a cigarertte package : "Warning, the intellectual ingestion and assimilation of certain portions of this source's writings on critical issues may cause an individual or group to participate directly in the premature permanent demise of humanity and all life on Earth, or may result in the abject slavery of most denizens of the planet in a permanent police state". Numbnut ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:47:12 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Tony Kalenak Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I like your markup tags.... -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Couey [mailto:lecouey@SFCN.ORG] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 4:28 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" On 12/11/03 10:12 AM, Tony Kalenak wrote: >[ Sound's like a Dale Gribble moment to me ;-) ] > >I see another potential conflict of interest... > >These channels (and all their brother and sister channels) >have all those "Home Improvement" shows >With highly profitable sponsors like HOME DEPOT >which have much at stake in the STATUS QUO. > >Great opportunity for them to slam a dramatic alternative to the traditional >dwelling. > While I ALWAYS suspect (almost) ALL media, I suspect the authors may actually know little about Bucky and his works and are relying on someone else to give them direction info and not on personal research. I've already seen quite a few shows on the Discovery channel that have made all-inclusive statements that were at best not provable, and at the worst, lacking data (ie. newer research showing their conclusions are way off.) I've even see them run two shows that counterdict (sp?) each other in their conclusions. The media is always infullanced (sp?) by what the writers/editors see as popular and/or supports their views. (ie. "Don't confuse me with the truth!") LCouey p.s. sorry about the misspellings my new spell checker doesn't appear to have the dictionary my last one had . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:54:19 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed they aren't failed, insofar as they help to introduce elementary geometry -- although this should occur in grade-school!... see: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/fall%202003/burn.pdf anyway, that's "influenced." I quote you, then an example "you didn't know:" I've already seen quite a few shows on the Discovery channel that have made all-inclusive statements that were at best not provable, and at the worst, lacking data (ie. newer research showing their conclusions are way off.) I've even see them run two shows that counterdict (sp?) each other in their conclusions. thus quoth: The Stolen Alternative Since the major Russian TV channels, obediently bowing to the generally accepted version of the events in Tbilisi, describe them as a "velvet revolution"—concealing the tragic truth from Russians on the eve of their own Dec. 7 parliamentary elections—the only source of detailed information from Georgia for the Russian audience is Aslan Abashidze's Ajara TV. This channel was disconnected from Tbilisi on the day of the revolt, along with the state TV company, giving Soros' Rustavi-2 a monopoly. For months before, Rustavi-2 had been slandering the leader of Ajaria, describing the aged Aslan, a Georgian nobleman, as an old Communist apparatchik and potential dictator—though Abashidze never danced around the statue of Stalin, and his highly professional TV company broadcast not only the best classic Soviet movies, but also the masterpieces of European and American cinema art. Abashidze's mass media relied upon the feelings and tastes of a thinking intellectual and an industrious peasant, not just following their expectations, but trying to upgrade their education. For several years, it had http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047georgia_soros.html --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 00:49:25 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed are you going to defend Dick Cheeny from us? why do you sound so God-am snotty?... I'm sure that you could demolish any argument taht I might make or quote, in your own mind. however, you haven't addressed ny return reply; you've just spewed invective against a guy, Lyn, who's been trying for years to get around the "vast Libera Media echoic chamber of all rightwing thinktank crappola." (that's my own prhaseology, but it's based on a pair of absurd analyses in the LATimes (TribCo) Opinion Sec., which is trying like hell to throw Howie Troisieme against President Cheeny.) why is it that Lyn is #2, still, in the FEC's October report, but you didn't know about it? here's the most salient factoid about "DU": as you'd never grok from screamers like Caldicott, the fact taht it has such a long halflife means taht it's very unradiactive!... you can hold a bulk of it in your hand, and it will not hurt you. however, it's *chemical toxicity is enought, that you can only injest a very small amount of the dust -- before you get kidney failure. --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Don’t worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:26:24 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Foerd Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yo. Foerd Ames Ocean Wave Energy Company 20 Burnside Street Bristol, RI 02809 USA email: foerd@owec.com web site: www.owec.com voice and fax: 401-253-4488 -----Original Message----- From: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works [mailto:GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Quincy Quincy Quincy Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 7:49 PM To: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures are you going to defend Dick Cheeny from us? why do you sound so God-am snotty?... I'm sure that you could demolish any argument taht I might make or quote, in your own mind. however, you haven't addressed ny return reply; you've just spewed invective against a guy, Lyn, who's been trying for years to get around the "vast Libera Media echoic chamber of all rightwing thinktank crappola." (that's my own prhaseology, but it's based on a pair of absurd analyses in the LATimes (TribCo) Opinion Sec., which is trying like hell to throw Howie Troisieme against President Cheeny.) why is it that Lyn is #2, still, in the FEC's October report, but you didn't know about it? here's the most salient factoid about "DU": as you'd never grok from screamers like Caldicott, the fact taht it has such a long halflife means taht it's very unradiactive!... you can hold a bulk of it in your hand, and it will not hurt you. however, it's *chemical toxicity is enought, that you can only injest a very small amount of the dust -- before you get kidney failure. --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Don’t worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:14:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: The Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The "three-wheeled thing was horribly unstable" couldn't have been all wrong, otherwise all aircraft would be designed with four wheels for take-off and landing, instead of none designed as such. It seems three wheeled aircraft are perfectly stable on the ground up to 200 mph before and after takeoff. It's simply a matter of technology catching up with the inventor. How many people killed themselves trying to imitate Da Vinci's flying inventions, before the 20th century? Blair Quoting Quincy Quincy Quincy : > Joe: usually, your posts on the Buffalo listserv extend way-out in one long > line, or > a few of them, as was the case with the "car story," except that > it was also extremely garbled, unlike a partial quote of it that I saw, > later.... I just checked it on the Listserv (as opposed to the mailed > version), and > the long lines are there, but it isn't garbled. > > anyway, like I noted earlier, that 3-wheeled thing (that was > in that dratted Austin Powers movie) was horribly unstable -- and > the investors were burnt-up, especially the locals. > this must have been found repeatedly by inventors, and > it's pretty obvious that a tripod, once it reaches the limits > of two of its legs' shocks, will pivot on that axis ... same thing applies > to inline skates, if you think about it, and why even they have 4 wheels > (I'm learning on a 3-wheel/per foot set for the interest of it, but > I'd be afraid to use just two per skate ... although > I'd almost bought a pair of "Rollerballs," with two ball-shaped wheels; > when I called to order, I dyscovered taht they'd dyscontinued those, > though they still had them in stock, for 3- and 4-ballers.... so, > you *can* see the problem with just two; eh?) > > --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! > http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ > http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html > http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html > http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html > http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html > http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html > http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet > connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. > https://broadband.msn.com > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:27:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Spherical Trig Values MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Michael; Thank you again for your interest. I was unable to open the .gif file you sent. Please understand my limited computer capabilities. A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle measurement of a ray from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat face of an exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint of a strut. I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels then would average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, or 162 degrees. The three frequency dihedral angle should average 12 degrees from 90, or 68 degrees. Each strut has a unique dihedral angle. Blair Michael Rondot wrote: > PS: In case you'd like to see something about our organization, our > website > is http://www.iam-online.org > > And in case you'd like our contact info for your records, it is: > International Aboriginal Ministries > Attn: Rev Michael Rondot > 1720 E. Bankhead Dr. > Weatherford, TX 76086 > > (817) 599-5500 > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:10:27 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values In-Reply-To: <1071332848.3fdb3df0ed377@webmail.domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Blair Is this person interested in building lots of low-cost shelters? Dick --- "" wrote: > Hi Michael; > > Thank you again for your interest. > > I was unable to open the .gif file you sent. Please understand my > limited > computer capabilities. > > A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle measurement > of a ray > from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat face of > an > exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint of > a strut. > I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is > 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels then > would > average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, or > 162 degrees. > > The three frequency dihedral angle should average 12 degrees from 90, > or 68 > degrees. Each strut has a unique dihedral angle. > > Blair > > > Michael Rondot wrote: > > PS: In case you'd like to see something about our organization, > our > > website > > is http://www.iam-online.org > > > > And in case you'd like our contact info for your records, it is: > > International Aboriginal Ministries > > Attn: Rev Michael Rondot > > 1720 E. Bankhead Dr. > > Weatherford, TX 76086 > > > > (817) 599-5500 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:23:11 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: The Dymaxion Car MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Even though I had heard that the Dymaxion car was no longer at the National Automobile Museum in Reno, NV, they still have a webpage about it, implying that it is still in their collection; see http://www.automuseum.org/1934dymaxion.html There are quite a lot of photos of Bucky's drawings of the series of 8 Dymaxion cars in the book _The Artifacts of Buckminster Fuller, Volume 1_; see http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-TheArtifactsOfBFuller,vol1.htm (scroll to Chapter 11) The original blueprints are probably in the official Bucky Archives at Stanford Univ; see http://dynaweb.oac.cdlib.org/dynaweb/ead/stanford/mss/m1090/ Also, see this collection of Dymaxion car refs: http://buckminster.info/Index/Dymax-Dz.htm (scroll to "Car" and "Vehicle") Please note Ben Discoe's 3D model and the Cooper-Hewitt Nat'l Design Museum entry. The book _Inventions_ has Dymax car patent (US 2,101,057) drawings on pages 30-39. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Milliken" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 1:14 PM Subject: Re: The Dymaxion Car > Others will probably know more. I believe the surviving car is in a museum > in Reno, NV, it was found in the 1960's and restored (partially??) by > Harrah's Museum. There are patent drawings (I have some that were > re-printed in a Bucky calendar), maybe someone else knows about blueprints? > > I wonder how well a Dymaxion would fare in the USA crash tests (required > for all new cars sold in USA)? > > -- Doug Milliken > www.millikenresearch.com > > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Dave Chapman wrote: > > > A couple of stupid questions: > > > > 1. Are there any Dymaxion Car still around? > > 2. If so, where are they? > > 3. Do we have blueprints, etc. to build any more? > > > > -dave > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:36:50 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Rondot Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dick, Yep, working on a massive project for implementation on several different indian reservations. And I'm on just about every dome discussion list that I can find ... We're developing, or at least trying to develop a series of domes that can be mass produced using predominantly recycled building materials. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [GEODESIC] Spherical Trig Values > Blair > > Is this person interested in building lots of low-cost shelters? > > Dick > > --- "" wrote: > > Hi Michael; > > > > Thank you again for your interest. > > > > I was unable to open the .gif file you sent. Please understand my > > limited > > computer capabilities. > > > > A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle measurement > > of a ray > > from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat face of > > an > > exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint of > > a strut. > > I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is > > 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels then > > would > > average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, or > > 162 degrees. > > > > The three frequency dihedral angle should average 12 degrees from 90, > > or 68 > > degrees. Each strut has a unique dihedral angle. > > > > Blair > > > > > > Michael Rondot wrote: > > > PS: In case you'd like to see something about our organization, > > our > > > website > > > is http://www.iam-online.org > > > > > > And in case you'd like our contact info for your records, it is: > > > International Aboriginal Ministries > > > Attn: Rev Michael Rondot > > > 1720 E. Bankhead Dr. > > > Weatherford, TX 76086 > > > > > > (817) 599-5500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:05:49 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values In-Reply-To: <006f01c3c1b0$757ae8e0$ce937444@p2m1s2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, Michael, glad to meet you. I might have a piece of the solution!I hope Blair and a few others here will back me up, or possibly get interested in such a project. A randome is almost math-free. While it is patent pending, I am looking for a lauching pad to prove the concept on a larger scale in which case I would not charge a penny for using the design up to 1000 units. I just build an geodesic aluminum membrane shell structure that cost about $2/ per triangular foot of living space. No chord factors or spherical triginomitry are needed, which may be a great advantage to someone interested in ultra-low-cost. Young children can construct these polyhedra with five minutes of instruction. The process is intuitive. Contact me to investigate further. Dick --- Michael Rondot wrote: > Hi Dick, > > Yep, working on a massive project for implementation on several > different > indian reservations. And I'm on just about every dome discussion > list that > I can find ... > > We're developing, or at least trying to develop a series of domes > that can > be mass produced using predominantly recycled building materials. > > Michael > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Fischbeck" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 1:10 PM > Subject: Re: [GEODESIC] Spherical Trig Values > > > > Blair > > > > Is this person interested in building lots of low-cost shelters? > > > > Dick > > > > --- "" wrote: > > > Hi Michael; > > > > > > Thank you again for your interest. > > > > > > I was unable to open the .gif file you sent. Please understand my > > > limited > > > computer capabilities. > > > > > > A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle > measurement > > > of a ray > > > from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat > face of > > > an > > > exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint > of > > > a strut. > > > I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is > > > 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels > then > > > would > > > average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, > or > > > 162 degrees. > > > > > > The three frequency dihedral angle should average 12 degrees from > 90, > > > or 68 > > > degrees. Each strut has a unique dihedral angle. > > > > > > Blair > > > > > > > > > Michael Rondot wrote: > > > > PS: In case you'd like to see something about our > organization, > > > our > > > > website > > > > is http://www.iam-online.org > > > > > > > > And in case you'd like our contact info for your records, it > is: > > > > International Aboriginal Ministries > > > > Attn: Rev Michael Rondot > > > > 1720 E. Bankhead Dr. > > > > Weatherford, TX 76086 > > > > > > > > (817) 599-5500 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:16:06 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed tlansration: he wants you to lead the clue-search for that math stuff -- patent-pending! at least, he's got the trademark, which will have to be subject to change. thus quoth: A randome is almost math-free. While it is patent pending, I am looking --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Cell phone ‘switch’ rules are taking effect — find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:20:37 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm not sure, how you're measuring that "cnetral angle," and there is some sort of relationship to the dihedral between two faces -- probably trigonometrical. thus quoth: A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle measurement of a ray from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat face of an exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint of a strut. I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels then would average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, or 162 degrees. --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX _________________________________________________________________ Don’t worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:26:06 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: The Dymaxion Car Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's a good question, since Bucky intended it to be able to take off -- with four jets all around, as I recall. but take-off & landing are special considerations. apparently, the real world has dysgarded the 3-wheeler, sans aerodynamic acoutrement (like, a spoiler?), at least twice: once after some guy was killed, and once before they advertized it through s spook-movie! --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Cell phone ‘switch’ rules are taking effect — find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:32:24 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: The Dymaxion Car Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the question would probably be solved, by looking-up the subject of "taxi-ing" in flight school ... spme thing for al Queda to work on? the physical problem is determined by a) the center of gravity, and b) the center (axis?) of lift. maybe it's a "degenerate" form of the problem of a spinning top. thus quoth: perfectly stable on the ground up to 200 mph before and after takeoff. It's simply a matter of technology catching up with the inventor. How many people killed themselves trying to imitate Da Vinci's flying inventions, before the --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:53:19 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Rondot Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The dihedral angle is generally defined as the angle formed by the connection of two adjacent triangles. In a strut and hub system dome, the dihedral angles are established by the configuration of struts and hubs. In a panelized dome system, the edge of every triangle needs to be mitered such that the triangles connect at the dihedral angle using the formula --- edge miter angle = [ (180 - dihedral angle) / 2 ] . Alternatively, wedges can be inserted between the triangles that have a wedge miter angle = (180 - dihedral angle). I'm sure that Dick or another of the math guru's on this list will correct me if any of the above is incorrect ... :-) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quincy Quincy Quincy" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [GEODESIC] Spherical Trig Values > I'm not sure, how you're measuring that "cnetral angle," and > there is some sort of relationship to the dihedral > between two faces -- probably trigonometrical. > > thus quoth: > A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle measurement of a ray > from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat face of an > exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint of a > strut. > I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is > 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels then would > average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, or 162 > degrees. > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. > Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:23:52 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: 4th prototype MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks good. How about an inside view so we can see the fireplace and appliances etc. or at least guage its potential as a living space? I'm using a new email. I guess Patrick got tired of the "delivery failed" messages Channel1 spits back to all my correspondents there these days. Bob Dick Fischbeck wrote: >Randome4, constructed out of aluminum sheeting and plexiglass. Total >cost for shell with labor, $1800 or $4/square-foot floorspace. > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=181 > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=182 > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=183 > >Dick > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:42:25 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: 4th prototype In-Reply-To: <3FDB9178.9030308@lycos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob Any extras are possible. Composting sanitation, heat, insulation, water tanks, propane or other appliances, electricty, are all available. An ultra-low-cost hurricane proof shell is a good place to start. Add anything to it to make it comfortable. The customer is working on it. But in Maine, where 20 below is not uncommon, they have a place to stay. And it is already paid for. Yes, bohemian. And they are fine with that. Dick --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Looks good. How about an inside view so we can see the fireplace and > appliances etc. or at least guage its potential as a living space? > > I'm using a new email. I guess Patrick got tired of the "delivery > failed" messages Channel1 spits back to all my correspondents there > these days. > > Bob > > Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > >Randome4, constructed out of aluminum sheeting and plexiglass. Total > >cost for shell with labor, $1800 or $4/square-foot floorspace. > > > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=181 > > > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=182 > > > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=183 > > > >Dick > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:53:24 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values In-Reply-To: <00a501c3c1c3$884f7cc0$ce937444@p2m1s2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Micheal Blair is the person to talk to about correct angles and chord factors. Blair is an expert. Listen to him. My alternative does not conflict with traditional geodesic structures. It simplifies them. The main thing about a randome is that every vertex can have the same angular deficit and that means a geodesic dome can be built with identical pieces or elements. Plus a membrane-type structure like Bucky's plydome needs no framework or roofing. It is all-in-one. Does that interest you? Dick --- Michael Rondot wrote: > The dihedral angle is generally defined as the angle formed by the > connection of two adjacent triangles. > > In a strut and hub system dome, the dihedral angles are established > by the > configuration of struts and hubs. > > In a panelized dome system, the edge of every triangle needs to be > mitered > such that the triangles connect at the dihedral angle using the > formula --- > edge miter angle = [ (180 - dihedral angle) / 2 ] . Alternatively, > wedges > can be inserted between the triangles that have a wedge miter angle = > (180 - > dihedral angle). > > I'm sure that Dick or another of the math guru's on this list will > correct > me if any of the above is incorrect ... :-) > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Quincy Quincy Quincy" > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:20 PM > Subject: Re: [GEODESIC] Spherical Trig Values > > > > I'm not sure, how you're measuring that "cnetral angle," and > > there is some sort of relationship to the dihedral > > between two faces -- probably trigonometrical. > > > > thus quoth: > > A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle measurement > of a > ray > > from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat face > of an > > exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint > of a > > strut. > > I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is > > 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels then > would > > average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, or > 162 > > degrees. > > > > --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): > > Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... > > http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) > > http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html > > http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Don't worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the > holidays. > > Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:56:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii All you do is write about ancient history. Big deal. I've heard nothing from you about randome4. Why? --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > tlansration: > he wants you to lead the clue-search for that math stuff -- > patent-pending! > at least, he's got the trademark, which will have to be subject > to > change. > > thus quoth: > A randome is almost math-free. While it is patent pending, I am > looking > > --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! > http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ > http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html > http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html > http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html > http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html > http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html > http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html > http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ > http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac > http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:32:02 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: History Channel's "Failed Inventions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't catch this. Wong's assessment is worth reading. He says the radical shift in technology was far from ready for production. See: http://theses.mit.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Page/0018.mit.theses/1999-159/142?npages=977 A lot of pioneering technology must fall in that category. Bucky could be faulted for overly hyping the project, as Wong states. Bob Tony Kalenak wrote: >Did anyone see the History Channel's "Failed Inventions" last night? >They really dissed Bucky and the Dymaxion house. > >They failed to mention that its demise was not a failure of the House or the >design and there were many orders for the house. Rather there was an impasse >between Bucky and Beech Aircraft resulting in Bucky's killing the project. > >The program also seemed to imply the Geodesic Dome was a failed invention, >failing to recall the Expo Dome and The Antarctic dome, etal where Geodesic >structures have performed admirably and "As Advertised" so to speak. > >This type of reporting makes me question the accuracy of History/Discovery >Channel shows in general. > > >-Tony > >. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:34:21 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values In-Reply-To: <20031213191027.41213.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Dick; Yes, he wants to build straw bail bases with domes on top of them. I understand he wants to build very low cost, non-discriminatory housing for American Indian reservations in Montana and Wyoming. He's in Texas now. He said he was an electrical engineer for NASA for 12 years. What an accomplishment! BTW, I do realize 90 minus 12 = 78, not 68. Blair Quoting Dick Fischbeck : > Blair > > Is this person interested in building lots of low-cost shelters? > > Dick > > --- "" wrote: > > Hi Michael; > > > > Thank you again for your interest. > > > > I was unable to open the .gif file you sent. Please understand my > > limited > > computer capabilities. > > > > A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle measurement > > of a ray > > from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat face of > > an > > exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint of > > a strut. > > I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is > > 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels then > > would > > average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, or > > 162 degrees. > > > > The three frequency dihedral angle should average 12 degrees from 90, > > or 68 > > degrees. Each strut has a unique dihedral angle. > > > > Blair > > > > > > Michael Rondot wrote: > > > PS: In case you'd like to see something about our organization, > > our > > > website > > > is http://www.iam-online.org > > > > > > And in case you'd like our contact info for your records, it is: > > > International Aboriginal Ministries > > > Attn: Rev Michael Rondot > > > 1720 E. Bankhead Dr. > > > Weatherford, TX 76086 > > > > > > (817) 599-5500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 23:33:05 EST Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Mark Stehly Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is Dr. Gofman, the first man selected to head the Atomic energy commission's studies on radioactivety and health a qualified authority? Might I add his credentials include co discovery of U232, 233, P232, 233, discoveror of Plutonium production techniques, as just a part of his leagcy in the nuclear industry, and he has a emeritus PHd in cellular microbiology @ UCal, having contributed many signifigant studies in radiation and health, cardiology, and general medicine. Is the first man(Dr Doug Rokke) selected to head the Army's toxicity studies on health effects of DU enough of an authority? Is Vladimir Chournousenko, the first man selected to head the Chernobyl clean up a good authority? These are just three scientists of such credential levels listed, at the Ratical site, that are far removed from mindless diatribe pigeonhole categories and distance themselves from the accepted beliefs, that benefit(& receive benefit from) the large monied players. All of them forced out of their appointed positions when they sounded alarms to the people that their research clearly indicated they were concientiously obligated to do. Available in summary at Ratical, with links and references to higher technical papers. As I have stated before concerning LL, being correct on 1, 2, or 3 heavy societal truths does not necessarily indicate one is a genuine hero. As I have listed before, examples abound. One can learn volumns from Chomsky concerning manipulation of the press, and become cognisant in regards to some of this countries genocidal behind the scenes adventures; yet he spins on a number of critical subjects after he Sun Tzu like, captures those seeking truths to this country's excessess, such as his stances on JFK, Yugoslavia, and Israel. Likewise Huffington on her goverment spending diatribes, among other "finger to the wind" reports, yet she invites JFK intell denier Posner on her show, along with his jesting (and murderously) incorrect mocking of John Judge's expose' of the Jonestown, Guyana affair; laughing along with Posner as he used empty assumptive humor to convince any "reasonable" person on Huffington's inaptly titled "Equal Time" that Judge's work had no merit. Jonestown was an MK Ultra-like mind control op, with the "cult" members killed by lethal injection. Zinn, a hero of the left that has written a generally accurate and moving record of the European war club mentality dominating America's entries into armed conflict during the US's history, also tells people that JFK isn't worth investigating, and that Yugoslavia is position #2 (meaning Slobodan bad, bombing bad), along with other misdirections and ommissions...*I repeat*, after stringing people along with accurate and moving reporting on a number of de facto excessess in American history The real issue on Yugoslavia is Slobodan good - bombing outright murder, with the American population being kept in a Liberal position #2 (as above), or (vs). the blindly militaristic posttion #1 "Slobodan bad-bombing good" debate.....never getting to the fact that after five years of claiming Serbian massacres and holding Slobodan in jail, the official count for bodies is 2,287 of people of *all* sides. Please forward & let LL comment on the three position spin on the surrent Serb situation. http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/revenge.htm and the rest of the anti serb lies http://emperors-clothes.com/yugo.htm#1 Please let LL comment on the fact that Yassar Arafat is one of the top three Lt.'s serving under the Mufti that aidied both the British, and later the Nazi's commit genocide against the Jews. The Mufti pushed Hitler to work harder on the Jews, organised the SE European death squads and worked with the Nazi's throughout the Middle east. Yassar Arafat has for decades been protrayed in the press as the peace seeking (at times) leader of the Palestine peoples. Currently in Palestine, children's soccer teams are named after successful suicide bombers. The series on Israel/Palestine on TENC is the new standard, bar none. If your LL has the courage, as you claim, let him invite Jared Israel to submit the pieces he has written at TENC to prove these points and expand the audiance that is concious of these horrific affronts against a peoples & against the world that all sides of the alternative press are suspiciously falling short on. Also going through the list of scientists commenting on nuclear excessess and lies on Ratical alone, examining their credentials, and opening the floor to debate based on supposed easy to expose scientific errors in thought. If LL can disprove this assemblage of icons in nuclear research, then he'll have stared his chosen opposition in the mouth. Until then, he appears to be what Mae Brussell called him on so many years ago, a teller of some truths to capture some of the alternative research community. Look up the Professor at UCal, who took LL to task on global warming and open up a comparitive series of referenced essays, for all to read, digest, interact with and resolve. After all, 21st Century was specifically challenged on a major environmental point by a scientist of highest qualification Remember Q, we live in the land where Ollie can import multiple tons of Coke & heroin into this country, and still run for Senator, host "moral" radio showsand no one blinks an eye. Hooked of course to the Bush/Hillary/Bill Iraqgate/IranContra make war team, inheriting & furthering the Prescott/John Walker legacy, as well as the Rockefeller misadventures (on Clinton's behalf)....Tarpley is just the most recent exposiotor of these deeds, not a sudden and new assembler of revelations. I am unconvinced by LaRouche's expose of banking, as he protects the same profiteers of the CON(coal oil nuclear) game with the scientists willing to take the money and dispense approved positions that put all of humanity at risk, writing for the dominators approved stances. I also say it is up to any self promoting politico who claims to recommend and predict success for a social program like prohibitions to prove the validity of their stance. Given that prohibitions have an uninerrupted failure rate of 100% throughout history, the promoter of this social program must demonstrate just why he (or she) thinks they understand the human psyche, individually or collectively, to a greater degree of clarity than any other human leader throughout history. Ibelieve that to be a reasonalbe request. While I found Dope, Inc useful, it's logical direction(s) belies LL's final stance....why list all of prohibitions multiple ills inflicted upon society and then issue generic statements recommending the same course of action that has *never* worked (in fact always deeply reverses any progress made) LaRouche's foil here is Dan Russell for starters. In my opinion, LaRouche's conclusions & recommendations are completely debunked in Dan's indispensible, thouroughly referenced work. Those are three major political misteps, Q (nuke, global warm, prohibition) If I have an attitude, don't act so surprised If he's silent on Yugoslavia, and is still playing the "blame the Jews" game while a fascist inheritor runs the White House....well, you do the math ;-o Add two more major mistakes, if his stances here are mistaken, that a supposed expositor and politico claiming to have the necessary insight to fix things is holding onto. I wasn't clear when you threw the 2.3 trillion number back at me if LL had started reporting on it, or if you wanted me to provide the links I have to educate yourself. Let me know. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:57:20 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: The Dymaxion Car In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the vote of confidence, Dick. In this case, Michael is correct. The dihedral angle is actually measured from panel to panel, not from the center angle as I said. My formula will result in one half the dihedral angle. Blair ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 23:59:13 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Rondot Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All; One of the riser wall systems we had been looking at would be constructed from Compressed Earth Block and use straw bales for the insulation. The structural engineer helping us has told me that this would be cost prohibitive in the low-cost housing program. There are more than a few engineers who are leery of CEB, namely concerned about the ability to keep it dry and about its performance during a seismic event. So that design is temporarily on hold until further research can be accomplished. We are also working on an innovative new foundation system design that would use recycled utility poles and railroad ties supporting a dome on standard wood riser walls. Btw: my specialties was communications and instrumentation electronics, only thing I did with power was to use it .... :-) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [GEODESIC] Spherical Trig Values > Hi Dick; > > Yes, he wants to build straw bail bases with domes on top of them. I > understand he wants to build very low cost, non-discriminatory housing for > American Indian reservations in Montana and Wyoming. He's in Texas now. > > He said he was an electrical engineer for NASA for 12 years. What an > accomplishment! > > BTW, I do realize 90 minus 12 = 78, not 68. > > Blair > > Quoting Dick Fischbeck : > > > Blair > > > > Is this person interested in building lots of low-cost shelters? > > > > Dick > > > > --- "" wrote: > > > Hi Michael; > > > > > > Thank you again for your interest. > > > > > > I was unable to open the .gif file you sent. Please understand my > > > limited > > > computer capabilities. > > > > > > A better description of the dihedral angle is the angle measurement > > > of a ray > > > from the very center of the sphere, as it relates to the flat face of > > > an > > > exterior panel. The dihedral angle is measured at the centerpoint of > > > a strut. > > > I believe the average dihedral angle for a 4v dome is > > > 90 degrees minus 9 degrees or 81 degrees. Two exterior panels then > > > would > > > average an angle to each other of 180 degrees minus 18 degrees, or > > > 162 degrees. > > > > > > The three frequency dihedral angle should average 12 degrees from 90, > > > or 68 > > > degrees. Each strut has a unique dihedral angle. > > > > > > Blair > > > > > > > > > Michael Rondot wrote: > > > > PS: In case you'd like to see something about our organization, > > > our > > > > website > > > > is http://www.iam-online.org > > > > > > > > And in case you'd like our contact info for your records, it is: > > > > International Aboriginal Ministries > > > > Attn: Rev Michael Rondot > > > > 1720 E. Bankhead Dr. > > > > Weatherford, TX 76086 > > > > > > > > (817) 599-5500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > > > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Michael Rondot Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick, I am always interested in exploring new ways of accomplishing my goal. :-) I will admit, I am a bit unsure about using it as the primary dome structure due to the inherent lack of thermal isolation with the design as I have read about it thus far. On the other hand, I can see certain merits to your design which may prove to be useful as an outer layer over a heavier more conventional dome, a dome-within-a-dome structure. The primary benefit I see there is in creating a air-space ventilation layer resulting in enhanced moisture control in the inner dome's structure. I would like to see the structural loading specifications --- particularly wind, snow, and seismic performance capabilities. The environment where we are planning on initiating this project is a Seismic Zone 3, Wind Zone 5/6, coupled with a 'extreme' cold climate (8000+ HDD). Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbeck" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [GEODESIC] Spherical Trig Values > Micheal > > Blair is the person to talk to about correct angles and chord factors. > Blair is an expert. Listen to him. > > My alternative does not conflict with traditional geodesic structures. > It simplifies them. > > The main thing about a randome is that every vertex can have the same > angular deficit and that means a geodesic dome can be built with > identical pieces or elements. Plus a membrane-type structure like > Bucky's plydome needs no framework or roofing. It is all-in-one. Does > that interest you? > > Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 04:55:52 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Wichita MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: http://www.audacity.org/Dilapidated%20Dwelling.htm "In 1938 Richard Buckminster Fuller wrote Nine Chains to the Moon, which only gained a wider audience many years later from the 1963 reprint. For Fuller there were '…four overlapping applications and conflicting interpretations of the phrase MASS PRODUCTION HOUSE'. These are paraphrased as: * Repetition of a number of standard house types by site based building trades. * Erection on site of sectional assemblies and integrated components from a catalogue. * Delivery of a volumetric unit prefabricated to be installed on a prepared site. * Supply of a production run house with full dwelling service including a finance package. The latter, most daring and elusive was '... a competitive shelter service industry, similar to the hotel industry, and of the mechanical standard, scope, and integration of the automobile industry, engaged in furnishing on a RENTAL basis complete scientifically-evolved individual-family dwelling machines, whose design, economy, standard of adequacy, equipment, production, erection, land rent, service, maintenance, moving and removal, improvement and replacement rate are THE ENTIRE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE INDUSTRY'S CENTRAL COMPETITIVE CORPORATIONS, and are all included in one monthly rental charge.' (18) The financial arrangements would be much more sophisticated today, and yet the historic problem remains. Who is to lead, fund, produce and live in this architectural advance? It has to be remembered too that Fuller had flinched at the historic moment in the 1940s when faced with the chance to mass-produce a complete house by a post-war 'reconversion programme' of the Beech Aircraft Corporation of Wichita, Kansas." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:49:36 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Subject: Re: Wichita In-Reply-To: <20031215125552.47686.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Geodesic listserve group, Bob Burkhardt recently quoted Jay Baldwin on the Wichita house. I=20 was lucky to be part of the Wichita dismantling team, and I agree=20 with Jay's statement about the dymaxion house being a composite of=20 many interrelating concepts of varying degrees of success (not his=20 exact words) I would go a step further- since there are no doubt many inventors=20 and tinkerers in this listserve- many of you must have had the=20 experience (which I've had many times) of introducing so many=20 variables into an experiment or prototype that you can't interpret=20 the results. The question of whether Fuller's creations "worked" does not seem to=20 me to be the primary determination of their value. Did the Wright=20 brothers' plane "work"? The thing went a short distance and then=20 flopped into the sand. Then other people took the basic ideas and=20 developed them. Fuller left us with many riddles and visions. The=20 basic idea as I understand it is that the impression of inadequate=20 life support capacity on earth is a result of confusing the=20 limitations of prevailing technologies with "reality." Bob Sanderson >From: > >http://www.audacity.org/Dilapidated%20Dwelling.htm > >"In 1938 Richard Buckminster Fuller wrote Nine Chains to the Moon, >which only gained a wider audience many years later from the 1963 >reprint. For Fuller there were '=D6four overlapping applications and >conflicting interpretations of the phrase MASS PRODUCTION HOUSE'. > >These are paraphrased as: > >* Repetition of a number of standard house types by site based buildi= ng >trades. >* Erection on site of sectional assemblies and integrated components >from a catalogue. >* Delivery of a volumetric unit prefabricated to be installed on a >prepared site. >* Supply of a production run house with full dwelling service includi= ng >a finance package. > > >The latter, most daring and elusive was '... a competitive shelter >service industry, similar to the hotel industry, and of the mechanical >standard, scope, and integration of the automobile industry, engaged in >furnishing on a RENTAL basis complete scientifically-evolved >individual-family dwelling machines, whose design, economy, standard of >adequacy, equipment, production, erection, land rent, service, >maintenance, moving and removal, improvement and replacement rate are >THE ENTIRE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE INDUSTRY'S CENTRAL COMPETITIVE >CORPORATIONS, and are all included in one monthly rental charge.' (18) > >The financial arrangements would be much more sophisticated today, and >yet the historic problem remains. Who is to lead, fund, produce and >live in this architectural advance? It has to be remembered too that >Fuller had flinched at the historic moment in the 1940s when faced with >the chance to mass-produce a complete house by a post-war 'reconversion >programme' of the Beech Aircraft Corporation of Wichita, Kansas." > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. >http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:16:40 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed here's your interior shell (with no flashing, indulation, flooring, plumbing, windows, doors etc.): http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=184 it is obvious from the photos that your old claim has never been shown, since there is no apparent symmetry, whatever, for this "identicalness." until you investigate the actual deformations of your qua-conical pieces, you won't get any math out of it. so, why haven't see seen the 4-piece spheric unit? --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Get holiday tips for festive fun. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:39:59 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Global Military Expenditures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the thing about this format is that is quasi-conversational, not that "you can' get subtleties without emoticonsd at a every pause" -- it's just the asynchrony, with the obvious failures of parties to address the others' typing. so, I cannot question Gofman's expertise, as it is completely irrelevant to what he *believes* about doses of radiation -- although it's well-investigated, and we have covered taht science for decades. and here is an ontrodictiuon: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/Spring03/radiation.html here is a somewhat related reference, that is of interest to physicists: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Translations/translation.html the rest of your diatribe is almost completely a nonsequiter, as you seem to believe some strange things about LaRouchiacs. however, I'll excerpt some, for later comment, if needed. firstly, though, you just don't have a clue on "DU," a very unfortunate euphamism, because they're trying to waste this massive quantitiy of energy!... for starters, just read the *synopsis* of the 'WAND' Corp. metareview, which you can find on their site. secondly, do you know *what* the "airport at Mena, AK," is? thus quoth: his stances on JFK, Yugoslavia, and Israel. Likewise Huffington on her goverment spending diatribes, among other "finger to the wind" reports, yet she invites JFK intell denier Posner on her armed conflict during the US's history, also tells people that JFK isn't worth investigating, and that Yugoslavia is position #2 (meaning Slobodan bad, Please let LL comment on the fact that Yassar Arafat is one of the top three Lt.'s serving under the Mufti that aidied both the British, and later the Nazi's commit genocide against the Jews. The Mufti pushed Hitler to work harder on the Jews, organised the SE European death squads and worked with the Nazi's throughout the Middle east. Until then, he appears to be what Mae Brussell called him on so many years ago, a teller of some truths to capture some of the alternative research Look up the Professor at UCal, who took LL to task on global warming and Remember Q, we live in the land where Ollie can import multiple tons of Coke & heroin into this country, and still run for Senator, host "moral" radio Hooked of course to the Bush/Hillary/Bill Iraqgate/IranContra make war team, inheriting & furthering the Prescott/John Walker legacy, as well as the Rockefeller misadventures (on Clinton's behalf)....Tarpley is just the most recent exposiotor of these deeds, not a sudden and new assembler of revelations. If he's silent on Yugoslavia, and is still playing the "blame the Jews" game while a fascist inheritor runs the White House....well, you do the math --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids’ toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:42:54 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > here's your interior shell (with no flashing, insulation, flooring, > plumbing, > windows, doors etc.): Flashing is, well, it's all flashing. The insulation being intralled; reflectex. There are 6-1/4" plexi windows. The floor is 2x6 and plywood with 6' fiberglass. The plumbing could be a compost system and a tank of water with pump for washing. The door is being installed. Propane heats it. > http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=184 > > it is obvious from the photos that your old claim has never been > shown, What is my claim by the way? Or what do you think I said about a claim. > since there is no apparent symmetry, whatever, for this > "identicalness." The hub elements are identical and arranged arbitrarily, the only rule is degree of overlap. > until you investigate the actual deformations > of your qua-conical pieces, you won't get any math out of it. What do you want beyond F=root[(N-2)/10]? Or alpha=720deg/N, alpha being the angular deficit, or curvature, at each vertex? > so, why haven't see seen the 4-piece spheric unit? I am working on the description of solid angle with triangular area. Call it the synergetic solid angle. At scimath, 1/04/03, see: Dick Fischbeck wrote: > > What is the name of the solid angle whose area is the sphere's circle. > Is this solid angle 180 degrees? "If "the sphere's circle" is the planar circle with area pi*r^2, then a spherical cap with that area subtends a solid angle of pi, which can be expressed in SQUARE degrees by pi * (180/pi)^2 = 32400/pi ~= 10313.24 square degrees." > I got this passage from: > http://www.unl.ac.uk/LEARN/port/1998/daymedia/web/axel/measure/angle1.html > > "The solid angle is very similar to the plain angle with the only > difference being that it is three-dimensional rather than just > two-dimensional. It can be described as the ratio of the area of the > surface of the cone over the radius of the sphere." "This is not actually correct, since a solid angle can be subtended by any shape on the unit sphere. For example an airplane might subtend a solid angle equal to the area of its silhouette projected onto the unit sphere." > "Imagine a sphere with a radius of 1 metre. A cone that covers an area > of 1m on the surface of the sphere encloses a solid angle of 1 > stearadian. A full sphere has a solid angle of ? steradian." I think "subtends" is better than "encloses". An area on the unit sphere subtends a solid angle just as an arc of the unit circle subtends an angle. Lew Mammel, Jr." Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 02:25:46 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the standard solid angle or "sterradian" of the whole sphere is 4pi, which isn't completely abitrary, if the equatorial circle is pi.... or 720 degrees. I guess you have to ask me, because you've never made any claim that could hold-up under immediate scrutiny ... like, I do recall taht you did make a "4-cone spheric," but the little thing obviously had to be jammed together -- not that it was as bad as I thought it'd be! your assertion about "it's all flashing," while cute, is belied by the very notion that you can assemble your n elements "arbitrarily" -- who are you trying to kid?... I'm sure, if I looked closely at the photos, I;d find plenty of spots where the "flashing" directs water inwardly ... not necessarily the biggest consideration, if you're going to (say) stucco over it. it might have been a nice guess, that you could just paste a little formula into a "new technology," but that's not *usually* how thing works. first of all, they simply cannot remain conical, as you know from Monsieur Petit's Beeg Mystaque. between him and Goldberg, you've been running amok! thus quoth: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=184 > >it is obvious from the photos that your old claim has never been >shown, What is my claim by the way? Or what do you think I said about a claim. What do you want beyond F=root[(N-2)/10]? Or alpha=720deg/N, alpha being the angular deficit, or curvature, at each vertex? --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Grab our best dial-up Internet access offer: 6 months @$9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 05:15:11 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: > the standard solid angle or "sterradian" of the whole sphere is 4pi, > which isn't completely abitrary, if the equatorial circle is pi.... > or > 720 degrees. 360, not 720. And I want steradians in triangle area, not square area. > I guess you have to ask me, because you've never made any claim > that could hold-up under immediate scrutiny ... like, > I do recall taht you did make a "4-cone spheric," but > the little thing obviously had to be jammed together -- not that > it was as bad as I thought it'd be! Did you actually try it? > your assertion about "it's all flashing," while cute, is belied > by the very notion that you can assemble your n elements > "arbitrarily" -- who are you trying to kid?... Arbitrary shape to the triangles and arbitrary distance between vertexes, within limits. >I'm sure, if > I looked closely at the photos, I;d find plenty of spots > where the "flashing" directs water inwardly . Sorry. Wrong here, Q. Why do you think this part is difficult? It is like any shingling application. All water is directed out. Bolts are sealed with teflon tape. > it might have been a nice guess, that you could just paste a little > formula > into a "new technology," but that's not *usually* how thing works. > first of all, they simply cannot remain conical, Right, they just start out that way. They bend into pyramids. > as you know from Monsieur Petit's Beeg Mystaque. between him > and Goldberg, you've been running amok! You might be surprised. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 03:17:23 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed come-on, I didn't *have* to try to make a "4-cone unit" (for the whole sphere), because you didn't really try to defend your little paper-plate construction. we have dyscussed all of the attendant geometry, which amounts to "induced struts," as the Midnigh Cowboy had noted. so, they *might* tweak into pyramids, but that is simply not the general case -- that's what you're looking for, isn't it, the math of the general case? now, you can say that the "solid angle" of a *half* sphere is 2pi sterradians, or 360 solid degrees. the 720 is embodied in the "bow-ties" model of sphere, using 4 folded circles, but one should endeavor to *prove* this factoid -- did Bucky even "know" it? here's my real opinion: you didn't build any of these, although you did appreantly get someone to do it for you, at UCLA. --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:10:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Quincy Quincy Quincy wrote: so, > they *might* tweak into pyramids, but that is simply not the general > case > -- that's what you're looking for, isn't it, the math of the general > case? Yes. > here's my real opinion: > you didn't build any of these, I have no idea why you think this. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:42:17 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: Spherical Trig Values Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it's pretty obvious htat if you did make any of these models or, "full-scale porototypes," that you learnned nothing from them -- per your continued insistance about "shingling," which you had at first simply said, didn't matter. there are other instances that I could mention; do you want that? one can always cut one's losses, and if you did that, you might even dyscover some math. now, the most absurd thing about this thread is the title, because you aren't using any of that stuff -- viz Plate 1 in _S_. I mean, didn't you claim to be a sailor of some sort -- are you a "GPSailor?" if so, I hope that you have lots of extra batteries, and that it's chained to the deck! but, you might better start with using Gauss-Bonnet, til you can prove it, so that you can use it. of course, if "Dick Fischstick" is just a pseudo, then it really doesn't matter what "you" do, herein. --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Get dial-up Internet access now with our best offer: 6 months @$9.95/month! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:44:35 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Bad web data....maybe Comments: To: BuckminsterFuller@groups.msn.com Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert, If you go to the bottom of my home page & search for the word chord, you = should get about 26 references regarding chord factors. I hope this helps, ---------------------------------------------- Quote: I'm thinking that there may be some bad data on the web for cord = factors. As I do understand ( and correct me if I'm in error please) the = creation of a Class one dome, the solid is divided into the frequency = and rays then from the center extend to the vertices of the solid. They = then have the radius of the rays set equal, to become a sphere. And it = is then the distance of the points of the sphere that gives the cord = factors.=20 Where I have used the calculator at = http://www.desertdomes.com/index.html to check this method, I have only = taken it to the 4th frequency before I decided that the way I was = working the math was correct. But now that I have been asked to find the = dihedral angles for the 5th and 6th frequency domes......I'm in = disagreement with the data and pattern of what is found at Desert = Domes....and most other data on the web.=20 Knowing I too am human I'm asking if there is anyone here that would be = willing to check an excel spread sheet for me to see if I have done = something in error.=20 I do agree that the data posted at Desert Domes will produce a sphere = like structure, however it is not consistent at the 5th and 6th = frequency according to the data for frequencies below that....or so it = would seem at least.=20 So I don't know if this is a problem that has come about because most = people assume the data to be correct because the structure seems = spherical or in fact I have made an error.........this is the reason I'm = now asking for the data I have produced to be checked. Because it seems = the data at Desert domes is copied many times for the data many programs = use that work cord factors for domes. I do agree with 3 5th frequency = cord factors and only two 6th frequency cord factors......but if I have = been able to agree to the 4th frequency I should be able to agree with = all frequency's.=20 I welcome any help from someone that understands the problem and can = check an Excel spread sheet. Robert Siedentopf Unquote. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:57:45 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Buckminster Fuller - The Discovery Channel Comments: To: Jean Meltzer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Buckminster Fuller - The Discovery ChannelJean, I'm operating my website under the "Fair Use" provisions of the USA = copyright law. I'm not trying to make any money from it & its purpose = is educational. Consequently, there are quite a few still pictures that = belong to others. If you let me know which pictures you may be = interested in, I can probably tell you where they came from. =20 Regarding moving pictures (film, video, etc) I think you should contact = the following organizations: the Buckminster Fuller Institute In Sebastopol, CA http://www.bfi.org/ and=20 the Official Buckminster Fuller Archives at Stanford University http://dynaweb.oac.cdlib.org/dynaweb/ead/stanford/mss/m1090/ I hope this helps, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jean Meltzer=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 1:53 PM Subject: Buckminster Fuller - The Discovery Channel Hello, My name is Jean Meltzer and I am currently the Creative Director at = Tapestry International. Tapestry's Production Department is producing an = educational series, Assignment Discovery, for the Discovery Channel. Assignment Discovery is a commercial free series and is targeted to = students ages 10-17. I am writing you because we are planning to = program two weeks of science and are interested in creating a segment on = Buckminster Fuller.=20 I recently came across your web site and am interested in viewing any = footage you may have on Buckminster Fuller or his famous Bucky Balls. = (As well as any up to date, cutting science footage about this topic). We are seeking non-exclusive non-theatric rights (including the right = to edit and re-narrate footage). This material must be available on a = digibeta with split audio. Please send material to: Jean Meltzer Tapestry International 11 Hanover Square, 14th Floor New York, NY 10005 212-505-2288 Feel free to contact me via email at jmeltzer@tapestry.tv with any = questions. Thanks so much for all your help so far and I look forward to speaking = with you soon. Kindest Regards Jean Meltzer --=20 Jean Meltzer Creative Director Tapestry International 11 Hanover Square, 14th Floor New York, NY 10005 PHONE: 212 505 2288 x 306 FAX: 212 505 5059 WEB SITE: www.tapestry.tv ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:31:24 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: Buckminster Fuller's American pavillion Comments: To: Monet.Francois@hydro.qc.ca Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageFrancois, I'm not really qualified to advise you on the technicalities of geodesic = geometry & math. However, if you go to the bottom of my home page and = search for the word math; you should get about 68 hits. Also, search = for the word geometry; you should get about 146 hits. The information = in quite a few of the references will explain the math & geometry of = geodesic domes. For specific references to the Expo'67 dome, search for the word expo; = you should get about 56 hits. I am sure that somewhere in those = references is the exact details that you are looking for. Also, you may want to contact Fuller's two architectural partners: Shoji Sadao in Long Island City, NY = http://buckminster.info/Index/Sa-Scg.htm and Thomas Zung in Cleveland, OH http://buckminster.info/Index/Zf-Zz.htm I hope this helps, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Monet.Francois@hydro.qc.ca=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:00 PM Subject: Buckminster Fuller's American pavillion Greetings,=20 Congratulations on your site http://www.buckminster.info//. It's = very interesting. I live in Montreal, Canada and I see everyday that big beautiful dome = out of my office window. I've been trying to figure out the math that = describes the dome. Can you tell me if you know the exact parameters of it? This is what I've been able to figure out so far. It's actually two domes. a.. The outer one is an icosahedron of class 1, full sphere with a = frequency of about 20(?). Made out of triangles (d'huh)=20 b.. The inner one is probably the same but made out of hexagons = (mostly I guess). It's 250 feet in diameter and 200 feet high. The monorail went thru it during the 1967 World Expo. The reason why I'm asking is that I'm learning advanced computer = graphics on my own with my spare time. Just for the fun of it. :) And I'd like to recreate the dome. Including the inner and outer = truss and, if I don't become crazy, the acrylic domes that covered it. Can you give me a hand? I'll send you the images of my work in = exchange for your time. Thank you for reading this. Happy holidays and a great new year. Fran=E7ois Monet Ing. Stag. Ergonome =20 Ing=E9nierie cognitive Informatique du Domaine transport=20 Trans=C9nergie, Hydro-Qu=E9bec 855, rue Ste-Catherine est, 5e =E9tage=20 Montr=E9al, Qu=E9bec=20 H2L 4P5=20 514-840-3000, poste 5828 monet.francois@hydro.qc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 07:40:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: toys Comments: To: sphere sphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You can check out some really great toys at: http://www1.ttcn.ne.jp/~a-nishi/ Especially this one: http://www1.ttcn.ne.jp/~a-nishi/reversible/z_revers.html My guess is any number of vertexes will work. Self adjusting. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 05:23:38 +0100 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Francois=20Monet?= Subject: Expo 67 American Pavilion Dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings to all, I live in Montreal, Canada and I see everyday that big beautiful dome out of my office window, Expo 67's American Pavilion. I've been trying to figure out the math that describes the dome. Can you tell me if you know the exact parameters of it? This is what I've been able to figure out so far. It's actually two domes. The outer one is an icosahedron of class 1, full sphere with a frequency of about 20(+). Made out of triangles (d'huh). The inner one is probably the same but made out of hexagons (mostly I guess). It's 250 feet in diameter and 200 feet high. The reason why I'm asking is that I'm learning advanced computer graphics on my own with my spare time. Just for the fun of it. :) And I'd like to recreate the dome. Including the inner and outer truss and, if I don't become crazy, the acrylic bubles that covered it. Can anybody give me a hand? I'm looking for the architectural data and even the R. Buckminster Fuller institute did not answer me (well I got an automated message giving me LISTSERV). I'll send you the images of my work in exchange for your time. Thank you for reading this. Happy holidays and a great new year. François Monet Engineer in training Human Factors Specialist Cognitive Engineering Hydro-Québec (Up there north of the border) :) _________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:10:26 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Ten-stage Tensegrity Torus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l10torus1.html Here's the model I assembled of the tensegrity torus. Merry Christmas! Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 16:18:54 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Subject: Re: Ten-stage Tensegrity Torus In-Reply-To: <3FEB1A02.3000107@lycos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Bob, Very cool model, congratulations! Thanks for the credit on this page, not really necessary, but appreciated! I certainly remember using jigs at our MIT dorm "tensigrity party", but that was mid-1970's and I have no idea who came up with the initial idea to jig the struts in space 'somehow'...and then connect the tendons. Just went from green to White Christmas here in Buffalo, 10 inches of snow from 9AM to Noon today (typical lake effect that we get when wind is from SW). Merry Christmas! -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Ref: > http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/x3l10torus1.html > > Here's the model I assembled of the tensegrity torus. Merry Christmas! > > Bob > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:22:04 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: housecleaning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Refs: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/flyseye.html http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/tve.html I posted photos of these two tensegrities to my web site. I've had them in my collection for many years, but never photographed them, so now that I'm doing my year-end housecleaning I thought I would. Regarding Quincy's suspicions, I think the photographs of the last SNEC meeting definitely showed Dick building a randome. However, I don't think we've ever seen a photo of an interior of one which I find odd. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:21:58 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: housecleaning In-Reply-To: <3FEC8A5C.70202@lycos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Regarding Quincy's suspicions, I think the photographs of the last > SNEC > meeting definitely showed Dick building a randome. However, I don't > think we've ever seen a photo of an interior of one which I find odd. Bob What do you mean odd? I showed this: http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=184 The first livingroom-size randome was just finish. We turned the heat on last week. It still needs to be painted and the pictures still need hanging. No running water though. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:13:17 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: tragedy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii More ultra-low-cost, earthquake-proof homes needed. How many new people homeless today, in addition to the dead? UPI 12/26/2003 20,000 estimated dead in Iran earthquake TEHRAN, Iran, Dec. 26 (UPI) -- A catastrophic earthquake wracked a southeastern Iranian city Friday, killing an estimated 20,000 people, government sources said. The quake, measuring 6.7 on the Richter scale, struck the ancient city of Bam at 5:01 a.m. local time, flattening 60-70 percent of the area's buildings and killing an estimated 20,000 residents, most of whom were sleeping, Sky News reported. As many as 50,000 have been injured by the initial tremor and the after-shocks. The quake cut telephone lines, electricity and water supplies in the city of 200,000, about 620 miles southeast of the capital of Tehran. Two of Bam's hospitals collapsed, crushing staff and leaving other hospitals packed. President Khatami called the earthquake a "national tragedy," and the governor of Karman, the province where Bam is located, said at least 20 emergency rescue teams were set up in Kerman, about 125 miles north of Bam. Helicopters and air transports, as well as trucks, medical vehicles and heavy construction equipment were rushing to the area. Rescuers worried that victims trapped in the rubble could be as vulnerable to the freezing night temperatures as the initial shock of the earthquake. "The situation is very critical and the humanitarian and material losses are very high," a provincial official said. Worldwide, numerous nations responded with an outpouring of humanitarian support and sympathy. Most structures in Bam are of mud construction and vulnerable to the area's frequent earthquakes. Bam is on UNESCO's list of "World Heritage Sites," and is home to a 2,000-year-old mud-brick citadel, which was reportedly destroyed. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:32:33 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: housecleaning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aha!. Hard to tell concave from convex without a caption. Thanks. Will be good to see how you deal with the picture hanging issue. Isn't a coat of some insulating stucco-like compound going on before you paint (with due regard to fire issues and fumes) to cover the seams and prime things? Bob Dick Fischbeck wrote: >--- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > > > >>Regarding Quincy's suspicions, I think the photographs of the last >>SNEC >>meeting definitely showed Dick building a randome. However, I don't >>think we've ever seen a photo of an interior of one which I find odd. >> >> > >Bob > >What do you mean odd? I showed this: > >http://groups.msn.com/BuckminsterFuller/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=184 > >The first livingroom-size randome was just finish. We turned the heat >on last week. It still needs to be painted and the pictures still need >hanging. No running water though. > >Dick > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. >http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 06:00:52 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: housecleaning In-Reply-To: <3FECD320.1020202@lycos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Aha!. Hard to tell concave from convex without a caption. Thanks. > Will be good to see how you deal with the picture hanging issue. > Isn't > a coat of some insulating stucco-like compound going on before you > paint > (with due regard to fire issues and fumes) to cover the seams and > prime > things? The inside is now covered with reflectex, the foil-covered bubblewrap. It is not fireproof of course, but with a bare budget it was the best thing to do. The seams are closed with aluminum tape. The floor is a standard 2x6 and plywood construction added inside the shell after its completion(it probably weighs more than the shell). Six inch fiberglasss batting insulates between the joists. There is also a small loft for storage. We might add a row of panels around the bottom in the spring to add 3 feet of height. The owner is thrilled to be living rent-free finally. Her sister owns the property. So far the code officer has not visited!! But if he does I can say it is an experiment and it is portable. That might satisfy him. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:31:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Quickup Camper Comments: To: info@quickupcamper.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr Jay Baldwin Jay Baldwin Designs Dear Sir, I like your pickup camper design but I couldn't find any info on the = types of equipment it might contain to make it more or less = self-contained, such as energy capturing, recycling, two-way wireless = communication, water, heat, lighting, etc. Do you have any plans for = incorporating some of the technologies from, say, private planes or = yachts into your designs? Ref: http://www.quickupcamper.com/ -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:32:46 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Your New Book Comments: To: jay@salsburg.com Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jay, I would like to buy a copy of your new book, _How to Build Your Own = Fly's Eye Dome Home_, but for various reasons I don't want to do it over = the internet; I would rather send you a check. Could you please email = me a US Mail Order Form? Ref: http://www.salsburg.com/coming/coming.html Thanks, -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 19:25:54 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: dome book Comments: To: John Belt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, I can see that I will have to be more careful in my communications to distinguish between the two Jays: Jay Salsburg & Jay Baldwin. As far as I know, Jay Salsburg has not built any physical prototypes of Fly's Eye domes. Regarding Jay Baldwin's pickup camper, has he considered substituting a rotary engine for the existing piston engine? See http://www.freedom-motors.com/. There would be many do-more-with-less advantages. By the way, Moller's vertical take-off Skycar (http://www.moller.com/skycar/) uses 8 of them. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Belt" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 6:55 PM Subject: dome book > Hi Joe, > > I realize now that it is not Jay Baldwin. Think I just > picked up Jay Baldwin from your post about the camper. > Jay Salsburg's dome seems very early conceptual with > what I saw has he built any prototypes? Building them > with the computer is a lot easier than getting a building > to stand up alone. > > Best, john > .......................................................................... > John Belt, Design Faculty Studio Phone: 315-312-2867 / voice mail > Department of Technology Office Phone: 315-312-2868 / no voice m > Oswego State University DEPT FAX-Attn/jb 315-312-3363 > Oswego, New York 13126 Home Phone: 315-342-2280 / voice mail > .......... cell phone used only when traveling 315-529-5732............... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:25:33 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: dome book Comments: To: Doug Milliken MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug, According to their FAQ (question # 22): "Tell me about the emissions characteristics of the Rotapower engine. Answer: Our engine design is very emissions efficient. We tested a jet ski equipped with our engine at the California Air Resources Board test center in Long Beach and it achieved results which established qualifications as an Ultra Low Emissions vehicle. Certainly, other four-stroke engines have achieved the same, but normally require very complex valve-timing and catalytic converters. Our design does not." Ref: http://www.freedom-motors.com/faqw.html#22 -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Milliken" To: "Joe S Moore" Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:12 PM Subject: Re: dome book > > Joe, > > Look closer and you will see that this rotary is not emissions- legal (in > USA) for a car or truck. Freedom propose using it to improve on the > terrible emission performance of 2-stroke engines used in jet-skis, > snowmobiles and the like, which is pretty easy to do with any 4-stroke > engine (Wankel rotary or reciprocating). > > Best wishes, > -- Doug Milliken > > On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > > > John, > > > > I can see that I will have to be more careful in my communications to > > distinguish between the two Jays: Jay Salsburg & Jay Baldwin. > > > > As far as I know, Jay Salsburg has not built any physical prototypes of > > Fly's Eye domes. > > > > Regarding Jay Baldwin's pickup camper, has he considered substituting a > > rotary engine for the existing piston engine? See > > http://www.freedom-motors.com/. There would be many do-more-with-less > > advantages. > > > > By the way, Moller's vertical take-off Skycar > > (http://www.moller.com/skycar/) uses 8 of them. > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Belt" > > To: "Joe S Moore" > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 6:55 PM > > Subject: dome book > > > > > Hi Joe, > > > > > > I realize now that it is not Jay Baldwin. Think I just > > > picked up Jay Baldwin from your post about the camper. > > > Jay Salsburg's dome seems very early conceptual with > > > what I saw has he built any prototypes? Building them > > > with the computer is a lot easier than getting a building > > > to stand up alone. > > > > > > Best, john > > > ......................................................................... > > > John Belt, Design Faculty Studio Phone: 315-312-2867 / voice mail > > > Department of Technology Office Phone: 315-312-2868 / no voice m > > > Oswego State University DEPT FAX-Attn/jb 315-312-3363 > > > Oswego, New York 13126 Home Phone: 315-342-2280 / voice mail > > > .......... cell phone used only when traveling 315-529-5732............... > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:34:59 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Subject: Re: dome book Comments: To: Joe S Moore In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Joe, A search starting at the CA Air Resources Board site: http://www.arb.ca.gov/homepage.htm indicates that there are separate rules for cars/trucks and marine engines. I'm hardly an emissions expert, but here is a cutting from one pdf file that I found, by searching for these terms: ultra low emission marine The report is titled: "Rulemaking: 1999-10 FSOR Emission Standards and Test Procedures For New 2001 and Later Model Year Spark-Ignition Marine Engines" and down inside was this comment (among many): "11. C. Comments outside the Scope Comments were received from 114 individuals and organizations that were outside the scope of the second notice of modified text. Two of these letters were in support of the regulations. One commenter complained that the standards are too lax, and that, since even a 2008 model year compliant engine will pollute 26 times as much as a 1999 automobile, it is objectionable to call such an engine ultra low emission." .... If you wanted to go further I suppose you could write to Freedom/Rotapower for confirmation, but I don't think it's worth it. The car emission levels are really, really low. Marine engines are just now starting to be controlled--still relatively easy to meet the marine and other recreational vehicle emission requirements. -- Doug Milliken On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > Doug, > > According to their FAQ (question # 22): > > "Tell me about the emissions characteristics of the Rotapower engine. > > Answer: Our engine design is very emissions efficient. We tested a jet ski > equipped with our engine at the California Air Resources Board test center > in Long Beach and it achieved results which established qualifications as an > Ultra Low Emissions vehicle. Certainly, other four-stroke engines have > achieved the same, but normally require very complex valve-timing and > catalytic converters. Our design does not." > > Ref: http://www.freedom-motors.com/faqw.html#22 > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Milliken" > To: "Joe S Moore" > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:12 PM > Subject: Re: dome book > > > > > > Joe, > > > > Look closer and you will see that this rotary is not emissions- legal (in > > USA) for a car or truck. Freedom propose using it to improve on the > > terrible emission performance of 2-stroke engines used in jet-skis, > > snowmobiles and the like, which is pretty easy to do with any 4-stroke > > engine (Wankel rotary or reciprocating). > > > > Best wishes, > > -- Doug Milliken > > > > On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > I can see that I will have to be more careful in my communications to > > > distinguish between the two Jays: Jay Salsburg & Jay Baldwin. > > > > > > As far as I know, Jay Salsburg has not built any physical prototypes of > > > Fly's Eye domes. > > > > > > Regarding Jay Baldwin's pickup camper, has he considered substituting a > > > rotary engine for the existing piston engine? See > > > http://www.freedom-motors.com/. There would be many do-more-with-less > > > advantages. > > > > > > By the way, Moller's vertical take-off Skycar > > > (http://www.moller.com/skycar/) uses 8 of them. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > Joe S Moore > > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > > http://buckminster.info > > > ------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Belt" > > > To: "Joe S Moore" > > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 6:55 PM > > > Subject: dome book > > > > > > > Hi Joe, > > > > > > > > I realize now that it is not Jay Baldwin. Think I just > > > > picked up Jay Baldwin from your post about the camper. > > > > Jay Salsburg's dome seems very early conceptual with > > > > what I saw has he built any prototypes? Building them > > > > with the computer is a lot easier than getting a building > > > > to stand up alone. > > > > > > > > Best, john > > > > > ......................................................................... > > > > John Belt, Design Faculty Studio Phone: 315-312-2867 / voice > mail > > > > Department of Technology Office Phone: 315-312-2868 / no > voice m > > > > Oswego State University DEPT FAX-Attn/jb 315-312-3363 > > > > Oswego, New York 13126 Home Phone: 315-342-2280 / voice > mail > > > > .......... cell phone used only when traveling > 315-529-5732............... > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:54:55 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: dome book Comments: To: Doug Milliken MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug, We're starting to get a little over my head now. I think I'll defer to your knowledge. I've always thought that the real problem was not so much the type of engine as the type of fuel. It seems to me that switching to some form of alcohol would solve most of the vehicle emissions problem. We could grow our own fuel instead of buying it from foreign sources. But of course the oil companies wouldn't allow that--for the time being. Silly me--how naive. Here's the table of contents of my favorite renewable energy book: http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-EnergyEarthAndEveryone.htm -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Milliken" To: "Joe S Moore" Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:34 PM Subject: Re: dome book > Joe, > > A search starting at the CA Air Resources Board site: > http://www.arb.ca.gov/homepage.htm > > indicates that there are separate rules for cars/trucks and marine engines. > I'm hardly an emissions expert, but here is a cutting from one pdf file > that I found, by searching for these terms: > ultra low emission marine > > The report is titled: > "Rulemaking: 1999-10 FSOR Emission Standards and Test Procedures For New > 2001 and Later Model Year Spark-Ignition Marine Engines" > > and down inside was this comment (among many): > "11. C. Comments outside the Scope > Comments were received from 114 individuals and organizations that were > outside the scope of the second notice of modified text. Two of these > letters were in support of the regulations. One commenter complained that > the standards are too lax, and that, since even a 2008 model year compliant > engine will pollute 26 times as much as a 1999 automobile, it is > objectionable to call such an engine ultra low emission." > .... > > If you wanted to go further I suppose you could write to Freedom/Rotapower > for confirmation, but I don't think it's worth it. The car emission levels > are really, really low. Marine engines are just now starting to be > controlled--still relatively easy to meet the marine and other recreational > vehicle emission requirements. > > -- Doug Milliken > > On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > > > Doug, > > > > According to their FAQ (question # 22): > > > > "Tell me about the emissions characteristics of the Rotapower engine. > > > > Answer: Our engine design is very emissions efficient. We tested a jet ski > > equipped with our engine at the California Air Resources Board test center > > in Long Beach and it achieved results which established qualifications as an > > Ultra Low Emissions vehicle. Certainly, other four-stroke engines have > > achieved the same, but normally require very complex valve-timing and > > catalytic converters. Our design does not." > > > > Ref: http://www.freedom-motors.com/faqw.html#22 > > -------------------------------------------- > > Joe S Moore > > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > > http://buckminster.info > > ------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Milliken" > > To: "Joe S Moore" > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:12 PM > > Subject: Re: dome book > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > Look closer and you will see that this rotary is not emissions- legal (in > > > USA) for a car or truck. Freedom propose using it to improve on the > > > terrible emission performance of 2-stroke engines used in jet-skis, > > > snowmobiles and the like, which is pretty easy to do with any 4-stroke > > > engine (Wankel rotary or reciprocating). > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > -- Doug Milliken (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:24:14 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: housecleaning In-Reply-To: <3FECD320.1020202@lycos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Bob Burkhardt wrote: > Isn't > a coat of some insulating stucco-like compound going on before you > paint > (with due regard to fire issues and fumes) to cover the seams and > prime > things? Not on this dome. No money. Seams were closed with aluminum tape. Reflectex covers the whole inside. It is along the lines of Yurt-life. There is a fire-extinguisher on hand, though. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:29:28 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: "" Subject: Re: housecleaning In-Reply-To: <20031229152414.64356.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Along the lines of yurt-life or myt-life? Blair > Not on this dome. No money. Seams were closed with aluminum tape. > Reflectex covers the whole inside. It is along the lines of Yurt-life. > There is a fire-extinguisher on hand, though. > > Dick > > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:47:28 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Subject: Re: dome book In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Joe, Also getting to the limits of what I know--we work on car chassis engineering--steering/suspension/tires, and my contact with "engine engineers" is limited. I'll just add that combustion is complex, with changes in chemistry/temperature/pressure throughout the volume of mixture that is getting burned in the combustion chamber (in an engine). And burning things (even just letting them rot!) generates some undesirable by products. Even burning hydrogen in air (mostly nitrogen & oxygen) at high pressure&temperature can (I think) generate oxides of nitrogen (NOx) which are pollutants. I haven't done any research, but I believe that switching to alcohol just changes one brew of pollutants for another (but they may be less nasty with alcohol?) And fuel consumption will approximately double for the same power output (30 mpg gasoline becomes 15 mpg on alcohol)--so either the car range is halved, or the size of the fuel tank has to be doubled. Personally, I like to ride a bicycle for short trips. Several benefits: I get some exercise and have fun thumbing my nose when I pass a gas station. This also saves "start-up cycles" on my car -- most pollution and wear happens while the engine is cold. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Joe S Moore wrote: > Doug, > > We're starting to get a little over my head now. I think I'll defer to your > knowledge. > > I've always thought that the real problem was not so much the type of engine > as the type of fuel. It seems to me that switching to some form of alcohol > would solve most of the vehicle emissions problem. We could grow our own > fuel instead of buying it from foreign sources. But of course the oil > companies wouldn't allow that--for the time being. Silly me--how naive. > > Here's the table of contents of my favorite renewable energy book: > http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-EnergyEarthAndEveryone.htm > -------------------------------------------- > Joe S Moore > joe_s_moore@hotmail.com > http://buckminster.info > ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:35:22 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Bucky Boat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of Buckminster Fuller's former boats, the Little Dipper, is for sale = on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D26433= &item=3D2451348297 (See Bucky's piece, "Naming a Sloop", in the book _Before the Wind_) -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:57:18 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: Re: housecleaning In-Reply-To: <1072711768.3ff04858df21b@webmail.domeincorporated.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Blair For this woman, it is a lot better than hurt-life and dirt-life! :) Dick --- "" wrote: > Along the lines of yurt-life or myt-life? > > Blair > > > > > Not on this dome. No money. Seams were closed with aluminum tape. > > Reflectex covers the whole inside. It is along the lines of > Yurt-life. > > There is a fire-extinguisher on hand, though. > > > > Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:16:16 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Doug Milliken Subject: Re: housecleaning In-Reply-To: <20031230015718.81337.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here is another use for yurts (drifting quickly off topic). These yurts also had fire extinguishers--a good thing since the inside surface was some kind of cloth, and some of the food was brought in on live flames: http://www.taiwanfun.com/central/taichung/dining/0204/0204rrOuterMongolia.htm If you are in central Taiwan, Taichung City, this is an interesting place to eat. The food was excellent (very NON-Western). The "Mongolian Folk Dance" mentioned at the end of the review was kind of a farce--the gal that danced for us brought in a boom-box and played pop music... Now--how about a restaurant where the customers eat in Randomes? The staff recites passages from Bucky after dinner... On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Dick Fischbeck wrote: > Blair > > For this woman, it is a lot better than hurt-life and dirt-life! :) > > Dick > > --- "" wrote: > > Along the lines of yurt-life or myt-life? > > > > Blair > > > > > > > > > Not on this dome. No money. Seams were closed with aluminum tape. > > > Reflectex covers the whole inside. It is along the lines of > > Yurt-life. > > > There is a fire-extinguisher on hand, though. > > > > > > Dick > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:12:56 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Re: dome book Comments: To: marcelo@lol.com.br MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcelo, If you go to the bottom of my home page and search for the word alcohol, you will get 21 hits. I'm fairly sure at least one of them refers to Brazil's experience. Fuller talked a lot about alcohol. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 3:17 AM Subject: Re: dome book > Joe, > > Check out the successful experience of sugar cane alcohol for cars in Brazil. > > Marcelo iacoponi > > -- Mensagem Original -- > De: Joe S Moore > Para: GEODESIC@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Enviar: 02:54 AM > Assunto: Re: dome book > > Doug, > > We're starting to get a little over my head now. I think I'll defer to your > knowledge. > > I've always thought that the real problem was not so much the type of engine > as the type of fuel. It seems to me that switching to some form of alcohol > would solve most of the vehicle emissions problem. We could grow our own > fuel instead of buying it from foreign sources. But of course the oil > companies wouldn't allow that--for the time being. Silly me--how naive. > > Here's the table of contents of my favorite renewable energy book: > http://buckminster.info/Biblio/About-BkTOC-EnergyEarthAndEveryone.htm > -------------------------------------------- (snip) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:16:17 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fw: Quickup Camper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Ref: http://www.quickupcamper.com/) -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe S Moore=20 To: JayBaldwin@aol.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Quickup Camper Jay, With your permission I would like to forward your reply (below) to the = Geodesic list which maintains a permanent archive available to anyone = with access to the internet. =20 See http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/geodesic.html -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JayBaldwin@aol.com=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Quickup Camper The prototype (there's only one) now has 4000 miles of rigorous = testing and has averaged 20 mph overall for that distance. That's more = than double the gas mileage of a typical cab-over pickup camper, and = nearly triple of most if they are cruised at 75 moph on freeways as we = do (air resistance rises as the square of speed, and power necessary to = overcome it as the cube). 12 volts electricity is stored in a 90 amp[ hr = battery under the floor with the tanks. It's fed by a 75-watt PV when = parked, and by the truck's alternator when driving. There is plenty of = room for an GPS and uplink antenna , with suitable wiring built-in. = Moreover, all of the Quickup's wiring is accessible without having to = disassemble or mess up anything else, and it is all visible, too if you = take out certain drawers. The PV and antenna are hidden when the Quickup = is folded in order to protect them and also to preserve aerodynamic = purity. Stove and cabin heater are propane, and both are very efficient, = though the stove is not state of the art (none are available). The = reason built the Quickup is to raise the bar, so to speak, and, = more important, to prove the design, which is the only practical way to = fold a vehicle without using fabric. The intent is to have proof of = concept ready for the first Hypercar chassis: Hypercamper. Meantime, i = continue my search for the right manufacturer/distributor for the only = RV that handles well, is stable in the worst conditions, and thats = better fuel mileage that EPA for the empty truck. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:17:26 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fw: flyeye Comments: To: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe S Moore=20 To: JayBaldwin@aol.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 6:57 PM Subject: Re: flyeye Jay, Thanks for responding so quickly. Sorry for any confusion; guess I got = my Jays mixed up. The email was meant for Jay Salsburg = (jay@salsburg.com). He has a book for sale at = http://www.salsburg.com/coming/coming.html. =20 With your permission, I would like to forward your reply about Fly's Eye = domes to the Geodesic & DomeHome lists (newsletters) so that others = besides just me can benefit from your observations. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JayBaldwin@aol.com=20 To: joe_s_moore@hotmail.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: flyeye Joe, I don't know where you got the idea that I'm doing a Fly's Eye = book, but I'm not. Moreover, I have never liked the Flyseye, as it tends = sag into a potbelly shape under load (see any sharp photo of the 50 = footer and compare it to a true sphere shape). Even smaller Flyseyes do = it. Moreover, the distortion of the "U"- shaped components also permits = a resonance that can make humming noises and throbbing in certain winds. = Also, the distortion under the dome's own weight (not even snow!) tends = to also distort the circular openings and the connecting surfaces where = the parts meet. Of course, that distortion could be controlled by = installing "lids" over the U-sections. In addition to stiffening the = entire dome, the lids his would provide channels for wiring, pipes and = ducts, and make insulation much easier. There is a downside to the = lids: because the dome distorts as you erect it, the lids must be added = as you go. Indeed, because the distortion of the components opens or = closes the U a little bit, adding the lids might be impossible because = the holes would not line up. I don't know anyone who has done this, so = I'm only guessing about the lids. In any case, the lid's fasteners would = be under considerable shear loads. Another reason i do not like the = Flyseye in its present form is that it projects too much shadow on the = floor to serve as a greenhouse or Garden of Eden dome. I'm not saying = that it can't work, but the several folks who have tried it have not = achieved very commendable results, at least not in larger domes. John = Kuhtik and Brad Toomey, and John Wells (who built the 50 footer) know = the most. I do not have any of their addresses, but BFI must. Sorry to = disappoint you. JB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:41:31 -0700 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Joe S Moore Subject: Fly's Eye Prototypes Comments: To: JayBaldwin@aol.com Comments: cc: "List, DomeHome" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jay (Baldwin), In Critical Path on page 312 Fuller writes regarding his Fly's Eye = design: "Both twenty-six- and fifty-foot-diameter domes can consist of two = concentric identical domes with a space of six inches between and no = metallic interconnectors---this spacing produces highly effective = insulation as well as an excellent hot- and cold-air ducting system. = The concentric domes' interconnection is accomplished with a = seven-foot-diameter outside circle and six-inch-deep conic tubes made = fast at the seven-foot outside end of the circular openings of the = spheres." Such a double-shell design might answer your objections to the = single-shell prototypes with which you have had experience. Ref: http://buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosDomeHomeHiTech.htm PS: I assume that an inside dome would have a radius 6" less than the = outside dome. -------------------------------------------- Joe S Moore joe_s_moore@hotmail.com http://buckminster.info ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:34:12 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Orthogonal Tensegrity Cube Datasheet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref: http://www.channel1.com/users/bobwb/synergetics/photos/orthocube.html Here is a version of the tensegrity cube I haven't seen before. The picture is at the bottom of the page. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:19:38 -0800 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Dick Fischbeck Subject: tensegrity dome Comments: To: synergeo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob Say we made about 200 identical prisms, each one like the model shown in the picture at this link: http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/nat_Fak_I/sammlung/tensegrity1.jpg But instead of making the ends of the prism the same area, the ends are different areas. Could these tapered prisms be joined together to make a dome? Error would need to be distributed evenly at the connection points. Dick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:36:20 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm sorry, but I never get any response around here. the "free market" in CO2 was supposed to go on (according to the LA(TRIBco)Times) on Dec.12. maybe you should look at Iraq (and the "vast 'Liberal Media' echoic cahmber for all 'Right Wing' carppola" about Hussein etc.) in this light ... a candle! as for alcohol, it can certainly be made from raw biomass, like they now have that process for good, ol' deisel, but it's awfully silly to grow a special crop for it, as in Brazil ... or mandated by Congress. (as you know, if you'd read what I typed about it, the MtBE scam amounts to a bait-and-switch for that, although it seems ultimately to be geared to H2). Bucky's whole tirade about "fossillised fuels" is also pablum, albeit the industry-standard "trade-name." what ever happenned to the "hydraulic" part of Earth (el Espaceship) ?? http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3050halliburton.html thus qouth: would solve most of the vehicle emissions problem. We could grow our own fuel instead of buying it from foreign sources. But of course the oil --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf --A church-school McCrusade (Blair's ideals?): Harry-the-Mad-Potter want's US to kill Iraqis?... http://www.tarpley.net/bush25.htm ("Thyroid Storm" ch.) http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/plates/plates.html http://quincy4board.homestead.com/files/curriculum/Cosmo.PCX --UN HYDROGEN (sic; Methanex (TM) reformanteurs) ECONOMIE?... La Troi Phases d'Exploitation de la Protocols des Grises de Kyoto: (FOSSILISATION [McCainanites?] _________________________________________________________________ Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:40:41 +0000 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Quincy Quincy Quincy Subject: Re: dome book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed is your site saying taht the Johnson outboard was a wankel? >Ref: http://www.freedom-motors.com/faqw.html#22 --Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last! http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/ http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3047cheney_freaks.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046chnygte_plmbrs.html http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/031128_iraq_statement.html http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/ http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf _________________________________________________________________ Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:36:51 -0500 Reply-To: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works Sender: List for the discussion of Buckminster Fuller's works From: Bob Burkhardt Subject: Re: tensegrity dome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a hard time picturing how you would connect them. I imagine breaking up the surface of a sphere (using a geodesic breakdown) of hexagons with an occasional pentagon intermixed. A prism would fit in a hexagon, but how would you connect to its neighbor? I've seen this kind of thing done with three-fold prisms where the triangle corners are attached to triangle edges (Ariel Hanaor, an Israeli civil engineer), but the connection seems too flexible to me to make a good dome. Bob Dick Fischbeck wrote: >Bob > >Say we made about 200 identical prisms, each one like the model shown >in the picture at this link: > >http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/nat_Fak_I/sammlung/tensegrity1.jpg > >But instead of making the ends of the prism the same area, the ends are >different areas. Could these tapered prisms be joined together to make >a dome? Error would need to be distributed evenly at the connection >points. > >Dick > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 >http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 > > >